Natalee Case Discussion #830 2/25/10 - 3/13/10

[Red]

Just an FYI, it was Jossy who helped get us in the landfill and get equipment. At the time many thought that was where NH was.

He also helped TES search the bird sanctuary with equipment.

Just saying.

Remember folks, he has to live there. There has to be some mingling that one must do. That is just a fact of life.

[Edward]

I will stop commenting on them if they will stop sending me computer viruses every time I do. 
I have gone through a few computers over the years..

I am going back to the other threads and try to help find people within our borders.. I will leave the Aruba case up to you fine and wonderful people.

[Ono]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6155338/___Joran_schuldig__maar_bewijs_ontbreekt___.html?p=39,1

one of the many comments...

many people in the U.S. misunderstanding of the European legal system ....?? Well in Europe we also own a lot of misunderstanding our own legal system so they are not the only
iwan, haarlem | 20:22 | 27.02.10

 

We Americans are not impressed with their system. 

[Ono]

One thing is for sure...

If NH's parents had not been as tenacious as they were, two black security guards would be (unjustly) rotting away in jail.

And even though a corrupt law enforcement team may have denied her justice temporarily, they sure did make them sweat it out. I mean..PVDS at his house sweating bullets. We all know locals do not sweat their balls off like that. Don't think for one moment that there weren't many a sleepless nights for those assholes. Beth had them on their toes.

Over time, the story will come out. It always does. He may be spared under their corrupt system. But as a firm believer in KARMA. Life has funny ways of working itself out...

The crime was simple, the cover-up has never stopped (to this day)...

I agree.

[texasmom]

Thanks for sharing your perspective Red!   

I remember very well the help that Jossy and his family gave when it was desperately needed.

I have had concerns about certain things too, but I always try to keep in mind what Beth and Jug have said about Jossy.

This is a snip from an interview Dana did with Beth in Feb. 2008.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6341.0

Dana:  I’m going to throw out some names to you and I know you’ve done this line of questioning before from other show hosts but I’m curious to see what you have to say.  When I mention the name Jossy Mansur...

Beth:  Oh absolutely heroic, what a man, what a father, what a husband he is too... I mean my goodness.  What a business man he is...integrity.  And you know I will stand by Jossy because this is an individual that stepped forward for me, for human rights, and for justice.  And gosh what he did for me was he took such a burden off of me during the month of July of 05 when I felt as if I was kind of out there on the forefront by myself going against these perpetrators until Jossy Mansur stepped forward I felt like I had no other ally.  So you know he did the most amazing thing, and he went out on a limb and he you know for no reason other than doing the right thing and as I said being about professionalism, integrity, and respect for others human rights so absolutely what an amazing man. 

[texasmom]

Has anyone figured out what time the show will be on?

TIA

[carpe noctem]

About 30 minutes from right now.

http://www.snafu.nl/bericht/20/2714/VANAVOND-SNAFU-LIVE!.html

[texasmom]

The possibility and/or likelihood of an "officer" also being a drug dealer was discussed a little recently.  While looking for something else I came across some information I posted about an ALE officer that was involved in transporting drugs to the Netherlands.  Farley Wiersma was sentenced to 3 years, and apparently after 3 years he can go back to work for the government.   

More about it at the link:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6448.1440

12/24/2009 Bondia Page 15a

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2



snip:

judge owing to condena farley at 3 ana of jail y 3 ana cu the not can work in apparatus gubernamental.

http://www.sonico.com/u/Farley_Wiersma/28708278

[texasmom]

About 30 minutes from right now.

http://www.snafu.nl/bericht/20/2714/VANAVOND-SNAFU-LIVE!.html

Thanks carpe!   

[Anna]

About 30 minutes from right now.

http://www.snafu.nl/bericht/20/2714/VANAVOND-SNAFU-LIVE!.html

Thanks carpe!   

Do we have a link to watch live?

[Scandi]

Has anyone figured out what time the show will be on?

TIA

Hi Texasmom, and thanks to you, Klaasend and Kermit too for the great photos and maps.  That sure is interesting about Bubali.  There is a main entry but it seems accessible from other points, not sure.  It would be a logical place for the mud to suck off one's shoe, eh? 

Is the consensus of opinion that the trioi were waiting for someone to come take her body when seen by the gardener and that person drove a white truck, put her body in the back and then that person drove to Bubali, walked her out a ways and left her in the swampland?   If so I can't imagine them going very far into the park for fear of being seen and think they would put her in the first acceptable spot they came upon.  If there is only one way to enter that park by car I don't think it would be unreasonable to think they'd leave her as soon as they hit the marsh after coming out of the trees.  Did we ever learn what Tim thought of her being put there?

[Anna]

I am surprised that there is no chain to close off the bird sanctuary at night.

[Kermit]

Kermit

If the archives are disregarded and ... the Range Rover "confession" and/or the most recent "confession" are embraced as the truth regarding the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 ... the following must be assumed:

1.  Natalee was willingly participated in sexual acts with Joran.
2.  Paulus van der Sloot was not involved.
3.  Deepak and Satish were not involved.
4.  The sons of elite were not involved.
5.  The van der Sloot residence is a non-issue.
6.  The observation of the gardener did not happen.
7.  Joran's only crime was the disposal of a body.
8.  The cage/trap discovered by the Persistence and recovered by Aruban divers was a none issue.

IMO ... any "confession" that conforms with the above list is one with the misinformation campaign that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since the getgo.

Good Night All.

Janet
6:15 PM PT

Okay I understand what your thinking is - the gov't, Peter de Vries, Patrick are involved in intentionally mis-directing the case for Joran in this "misinformation campaign."

Naw. I don't believe that. When one only looks at a vase from one side of the table, they miss how it looks from the other side. One can not only see things in black & white.

If you go and re-read the 'FACES OF EVIL' document I think you'll find a step by step that follows closely the evidence and then take a re-look at the information provided by Kyle Kingman who had taken photos of the dives and then look at the fact that RV (capslockwizard), Lorenzo Webb, Geerman, Kawish Misier, Mark Purcell were involved in getting Dave Holloway, Tim Miller and John Silvetti to believe Natalee's remains were in the pond that Dave Holloway paid to have Fred Golby and his dog fly to Aruba and search. WHICH turned up zero evidence. And if you look at the date/time etc of when they plotted all of this was when the OCEAN search was taking place. These continual attempts to divert are always when an ocean search on the cage/trap are involved.

Didn't you ever watch 'Princess Bride'

VIZZINI

Let me put it this way: have you ever heard or Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?

THE MAN IN BLACK

Yes.

VIZZINI

Morons!

THE MAN IN BLACK

Really! In that case, I challenge you to a battle of wits.

VIZZINI

For the princess? To the death? I accept!

THE MAN IN BLACK

Good, then pour the wine. [He watches as VIZZINI pours the wine.]
Inhale this, but do not touch.

[Rob]

I am surprised that there is no chain to close off the bird sanctuary at night.

Hi Anna, I was at the bird sanctuary ONCE. A bird sanctuary is not real high on my list of things to do.. but none the less.. I went thru the main entrance closest to the McDonalds - on that side. I remember there being some sort of watch tower - again this is if I remember it all correctly. I *think* there was some type of fold down gate, but I can't remember for certainty.

I have not been to the donkey camp or the butterfly farm, so don't ask - lol 

[Kermit]

Has anyone figured out what time the show will be on?

TIA

Hi Texasmom, and thanks to you, Klaasend and Kermit too for the great photos and maps.  That sure is interesting about Bubali.  There is a main entry but it seems accessible from other points, not sure.  It would be a logical place for the mud to suck off one's shoe, eh? 

Is the consensus of opinion that the trioi were waiting for someone to come take her body when seen by the gardener and that person drove a white truck, put her body in the back and then that person drove to Bubali, walked her out a ways and left her in the swampland?   If so I can't imagine them going very far into the park for fear of being seen and think they would put her in the first acceptable spot they came upon.  If there is only one way to enter that park by car I don't think it would be unreasonable to think they'd leave her as soon as they hit the marsh after coming out of the trees.  Did we ever learn what Tim thought of her being put there?

It was dark that night. The weather was something like a storm coming in so that means there would be a lot of cloud cover which make it even darker. So I just don't see anyone driving out to a swamp where it's pitch black and dragging a body into that muddy water area.

Much easier to cover the body with a blue tarp and call DAURY = DADDY!
Get a cage and put the body in the cage and take it out to sea and dump it.

Just so happens out of the 140 targets that the Persistence found, they only dove
on ONE which contained the remains of a body and a blue tarp a few yards from the trap/cage.

$1.7 million dollars was spent and the months of Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb for ONE CAGE/TRAP DIVE.

go figger.

[Kermit]

Just an FYI, it was Jossy who helped get us in the landfill and get equipment. At the time many thought that was where NH was.

He also helped TES search the bird sanctuary with equipment.

Just saying.

Remember folks, he has to live there. There has to be some mingling that one must do. That is just a fact of life.

And he helped DESTINY put an ad in his newspaper!
 

[Magnolia]

I got this over at RU:  Transcribing live.



Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:42 pm   

They just shown some footage of the liedetector-test Joran did with Jaap and that looked very fake.

Jaap is talking with Joran now. Joran is sniffing, but doesnt seem to be crying. 


Fashionista wrote:


Thank You!

I was just wondering if you were willing and able to do any LIVE "reporting/translating" 


No problem! Im sick and coughing a lot so I might miss some stuff, but Ill do my best. Didnt realise anyone was interested in that. 

Its a commercial break right now. So far they have told some general stuff about natalee, about Jaap and how he and Joran met. They showed a bit of private footage of Jaap; a bit of the lie-detectortest he made Joran do (you see that Joran gets asked if he is responsible for Natalees death, but he doesnt realise. Then you see Jaap talk with Joran about the result. You dont see what he says but Joran gets mad, gets up and throws something. Seemed pretty fake) and also some footage from Joran and Jaap on a beach where they talk about the American interview Joran did for money (the interview with the red lipstick). He got 100.000 for that btw.

Jaap is shown while he calls Joran after there are reports online that Natalees body has been found. Joran hardly reacts and says its probably not true.

Last that was shown before the commercial break is a timeline from the night she disappeared and how there are 45 minutes accounted for.   Dutch Dynamo Girl



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Van Lauwerzee tot Dollard tou!


Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:00 pm   

End of commercial break. Interview with Dompig now. talks about how Natalees family arrived very soon on the island and how they demanded that Joran and Deepak and Satish were arrested. He says their*(= natalees family) main focus was on the boys and not finding natalee.

He is talking about Jorans first statements and how that these messed things up in the investigation. Joran gave 24 versions about what happened that night. Dompig says that he is glad that Joran keeps talking, because that is better than a silent Joran. 

[Anna]

Well, the program is in progress.  I had so hoped to see Joran's non-tears.  Maybe it will be posted following the initial broadcast and we can see it then.

[Anna]

I am sure there will be an official transcript and translation available to us at some point.  This is just what I have from personal email so far:

Part1:
 
This was about Joran and Jaap did get friends. After they did got friends Jaap did give Joran money for his gambling debts and for paying his home rental.
And he did talked about the story about what he did fake video tape from Paulus and him and sells his for $100,000 to Greta.

[Rob]

I am sure there will be an official transcript and translation available to us at some point.  This is just what I have from personal email so far:

Part1:
 
This was about Joran and Jaap did get friends. After they did got friends Jaap did give Joran money for his gambling debts and for paying his home rental.
And he did talked about the story about what he did fake video tape from Paulus and him and sells his for $100,000 to Greta.

so the 100k K was true?

for the Marriott interview?