Lively Case Discussion #507 8/6 - 8/7/2006

[Bearlyhere]

I gues what really stuck in my head re: Celeste's pictures of Joran and his new blonde' friend was that in ALL or almost ALL other pictures I have ever seen of him and girls of choice, were girls/young women with dark hair...not a blonde. THEN, all of a sudden he returns to the beach area with this 'blonde. WTF did he expect??? I dunno, perhaps it is just me.......but it seems in past photos he prefers dark haired girls, then we see this. It just seems too staged, imo.

Nut... good point... they probably did hire someone to play his adoring gf....


and the letter from julia to celeste... they beat joran???  FOR the love of JOB, Julia think about your lies before you tell them.... my cat is smart enough to know better....[/quote]

Oh, so that's why he was smiling.  

[nonesuche]

thank you Sunfreak-

You've been great lately, I may not participate but I do read when I can, so many of you are quite impressive.

Mrs Red-

I did dash an email off to CCrier at both CTV and also her personal website suggesting she allow Red and Joe T to have a 'face-off", and intimated many were not turning on her show until she gains some objectivity in her actions. I am sure my emails hit her trashcan but I felt better having written them, small consolation.

[San]

The guy with the arrow pointing at him looks like Dennis Jacobs.

This is what Van der Straaten is telling Jacobs:  Dennis make sure you get in there and plant the evidence I gave you.

[flyingmermaid]

But None wouldn't it just be such an easy way out to say that the confession exceeded the time?

She was prolly told to say something about the time limit by PVDS

[Tylergal]

Mrs Red-

I wish you could get that info from Greta on that person in Boston, that was such a teaser on her part, and might well have been concocted for ratings too - who knows about her ethics? I surely don't trust them now.

But why didn't at least ONE of those 20 girls come forth? It's a huge clue that Greta didn't ask that question, isn't it? Or "Joran why don't you ask one of those girls to exonerate your intentions by sharing her story?".

But no, Greta did nothing but let it lay there like a pregnant pause....

I think that person in Boston, not that I know, was the Cuomo kook.  You know how Greta laps at the trough of anyone distantly related to a Kennedy.

[Kat_Gram]

I really do think, and I watched this on NG as it unfolded that if Beth and Jug had not been so adamant that they had arrested the wrong persons
when they went after the guards, that they still might be in jail.
One of the Mums hinted at the racism on Aruba.
Plus the fact that one of the guards was at Soulfest and had an alibi for the evening.
Someone tipped off the media so that there was a media event when
the guards were arrested. Jan Van Der Startten attended that one.
If Aruba had been left to their own devices with no media attention, well
we would not who the heck the Sloots were.

[Tylergal]

HI Story: Why So Long?

nonesuche writes: "...I think the answer could be as simple as Papa Sloot told these boys around the pool that day, what the story was. Kids do that, if an adult has enough information to truly hurt them, or worse if Paulus chose to - to hang them out to dry - they are like Pavlov's dog. They will ring that bell again and again..."

Yes.  Quite possibly.  With the 3 apprehended and in jail, paulus cannot coach them all.  In fact, it would be extremely risky to even attempt to do so.  So they go into jail without the coaching benefit, and all they can do is to continue to mouth the words they were told to say.  And this is what they do...UNTIL...

jvds moves off the story, and brings us to beach, as Steve Croes comes forward to corroborate the HI drop off lie, after the need for the lie had expired.  Did k2 move off HI drop at the same time as jvds? I bet not, and this could very well be a failed double cross of kalpoes.

But coming back to main point: from May 31 to June 9, they continued w/ HI drop off lie.  I could see them sticking to story through and including June 5, as at this point it seemed like successful railroading of Mickey and Abe was completed.  But this was derailed BEFORE the 3 were arrested on June 9.  From June 6 - June 8: guards produce viable alibi, contract w/ Allegro had ended on May 28 - they had no reason to be near the HI, HT family is publicly questioning police procedure, media is in frenzy around the island.

Somebody within ALE capitulates as a growing debacle is evident; jvds/k2 are arrested June 9 -- AND THEY STILL STICK WITH HI DROP OFF STORY!?! (If the HI story was so believeable to ALE, why didn't they continue search for a walkie-talkie holding man dressed in black?)

So ok, paulus can't get the new script to them beacuse they are jailed: they have to stick with the story because they don't know what else to say...

...and one of them "confessed" on June 10.

I think the story moved from the HI went Posner sent a shot across the bough of Paulus via someone.  Not sure who that someone was, but it was  a message loud and clear to get that sh*t story away from the HI.

[nonesuche]

But None wouldn't it just be such an easy way out to say that the confession exceeded the time?

She was prolly told to say something about the time limit by PVDS

FM-

That is exactly the point I was hoping someone else would make, I'm so scattered lately I don't trust my own recall to be what it used to.

I have no doubt that once Paulus was barred from visitation that he coached Anita what to say, when she visited.

[Tylergal]

HAMMER, I still believe that "something bad happened at the Holiday Inn."

I believe the thug had access to areas that we are not privy to.  I think all this happened too quickly for them to be driving all over Aruba.  I think Poppa Sloot was at the HI.  I think that is the reason Joran headed off such a thought about his Poppa by saying Poppa went home, Poppa did not allow me to go out.  Nope, I think Poppa was always at the HI, I think Jr BagBoy was at the HI and they had a suite there while see-thru-Blouse, Val and Poppin' were in Holland.

[klaasend]

The guy with the arrow pointing at him looks like Dennis Jacobs.

This is what Van der Straaten is telling Jacobs:  Dennis make sure you get in there and plant the evidence I gave you.

I think you are right:



 

[nonesuche]

In fact, not to be tedious but look at the timeline of that decision Sunfreak posted....

-- confession occurs on June 10th

-- Anita and/or Paulus coach Joran to scream 'foul' due to a private huddle regarding the time limitations, while searching for a way out of his confession?

-- June 17th the ruling comes down no more visitation for Paulus?

just brainstorming.......

[SunFreak2]

The guy with the arrow pointing at him looks like Dennis Jacobs.

This is what Van der Straaten is telling Jacobs:  Dennis make sure you get in there and plant the evidence I gave you.

Good point San.  Look at vd Straaten craning his head and Janssen standing there with her hands on her hips.  They knew they were arresting the wrong men,  How unethical!!  How can they look themselves in the morror each day and like what they see?  Also, it's June, and KJ is wearing a sweater!  Just proves that she must have ice water running thru her veins.

[Nut44x4]

I think the beach story came about because the ALE knew of the woman that had been accosted there... remember her?  The fisherman did come to her aid.....

so pvds gets a call from one of his buddies at the police station reminding him or telling him (since it probably wasn't reported) that this incident took place... wala, the beach story was concocted....

I don't believe they were ever at the beach.... I think it took place at the house... and they buried her in the shallow grave that Tim Miller found, then they moved her out to the landfill or the sea....

that certainly is interesting...they could have known about that. Mmmmmmmm, yes, interesting, indeed, I never thought of that concept, but it may have helped with their lies!!

[Tylergal]

But None wouldn't it just be such an easy way out to say that the confession exceeded the time?

She was prolly told to say something about the time limit by PVDS

FM-

That is exactly the point I was hoping someone else would make, I'm so scattered lately I don't trust my own recall to be what it used to.

I have no doubt that once Paulus was barred from visitation that he coached Anita what to say, when she visited.

The confession occurred after 8 p.m., I believe is the time but I am not sure.  I am sure Anna has that if she pops in here.

[Tylergal]

I think the beach story came about because the ALE knew of the woman that had been accosted there... remember her?  The fisherman did come to her aid.....

so pvds gets a call from one of his buddies at the police station reminding him or telling him (since it probably wasn't reported) that this incident took place... wala, the beach story was concocted....

I don't believe they were ever at the beach.... I think it took place at the house... and they buried her in the shallow grave that Tim Miller found, then they moved her out to the landfill or the sea....

that certainly is interesting...they could have known about that. Mmmmmmmm, yes, interesting, indeed, I never thought of that concept, but it may have helped with their lies!!

They were never at the beach while Natalee was still walking, talking and breathing.

[Nut44x4]

I think the beach story came about because the ALE knew of the woman that had been accosted there... remember her?  The fisherman did come to her aid.....

so pvds gets a call from one of his buddies at the police station reminding him or telling him (since it probably wasn't reported) that this incident took place... wala, the beach story was concocted....

I don't believe they were ever at the beach.... I think it took place at the house... and they buried her in the shallow grave that Tim Miller found, then they moved her out to the landfill or the sea....

that certainly is interesting...they could have known about that. Mmmmmmmm, yes, interesting, indeed, I never thought of that concept, but it may have helped with their lies!!

excellent point mrs. red! I am still not sure what good it does us all to decipher everything from the inside out, because I don't think it will ever go anywhere beyond here, BUT IF IT DOES, then whoooooooooooohooooooo, perhaps we all (mostly all of you) can get something done. Answers are what we need, truth...not lies in the end will lead us to what happened. We all want that so badly!!

[Tylergal]

Hands on hip by a female:  Watch the body language.  "My mind is made up and you are not changing it."  (Karin Janssen).

[Tylergal]

Early on HI.  As soon as things start popping, the story is moved away from the HI and it never gets back to the HI.  Why?  Why did Posner feel it necessary to have people listen in on Beth's calls?  Why was there room renovation at the HI?

[Tylergal]

I think the beach story came about because the ALE knew of the woman that had been accosted there... remember her?  The fisherman did come to her aid.....

so pvds gets a call from one of his buddies at the police station reminding him or telling him (since it probably wasn't reported) that this incident took place... wala, the beach story was concocted....

I don't believe they were ever at the beach.... I think it took place at the house... and they buried her in the shallow grave that Tim Miller found, then they moved her out to the landfill or the sea....

that certainly is interesting...they could have known about that. Mmmmmmmm, yes, interesting, indeed, I never thought of that concept, but it may have helped with their lies!!

They did know about it.  An American woman among others reported that she had been accosted by this man.  This time frame gave them time to concoct this story.  I still believe this happened at the HI.  There were very few cameras at the HI as was confirmed to me by an Aruban, who said that even the cameras there were nonfunctional and she was appalled by that.

[San]

Does anyone recall the date around which Paulus was no longer allowed to have visitation alone with Joran? Remember that? There were concerns he was coaching him even then?

And it was Anita who called out the ALE for exceeding the interrogation time limit on one occasion for I believe it was the warden for KIA who divulged that too?

June 17, 2005 – Dutch judge Bob Wit rules that Paulus not be allowed visitation with Joran. Wit also barred Carlos (Joran’s attorney) from visting b/c Carlo had visited with security guards during their arrest.  Joran’s family hires Richie Kock and Arjan Debie as attorneys for Joran.  Judge Wit extends remand of J2K

And the reason he visited the guards was because they were paid off.  This is why the guards aren't suing over their arrest.