Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 - 10/04/08

[Magnolia]

****************************
Quote from: oceanexploration on March 03, 2008, 01:47:47 PM
There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.
***********************************************************

And Kermit said...

John sent the pics to his sister who is an active poster at BFN.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360082#msg360082


Then Kyle accused Red of posting the pictures.
************************************************************

Is Robin John Silvetti's sister???   

No.  Silvetti's sister is Lex or something on to that order.

[bastibro]

Is Aruba(ie Mos & ALE) still in charge of the Natalee invistigation
or have the Dutch taken it over?

I am curious as to why the bunch of Dutch investigators were
there ...complate with dogs.
Aruba has no facilities for the testing of the materials from the
searches.  They would have to send the things to NL or the FBI
or put them in the secret drawer with no bottom.

Hi Magnolia, Mos is still in charge as being public prosecutor.
The Dutch forensic team went back to Holland in 2007.
They were there because the Arubans had no forensic teams.
Of course they should have done that way, way earlier

[Lala'sMom]

Hiya Monkeys. When was this witness 1st discovered? Has this witness actually given a statement to ALE? Seems I remember he was afraid to come forward because word on the street was if you did you would end up in jail.
If he gave a statement, why is Mos saying he didn't. Is this another piece of the pie that ALE has hidden/eaten/tossed? OR is Mos on the dirty dutch payroll of covering azzes?

Hopalong Hans and his sidekick Gabby Kruimel have shown a pattern of not being interested in solving the case until their backs are pressed against the wall. They didn't bother to press Joran's confession, they just let the judge smack'em down like they always have. Hans is not interested in witnesses (see the pond). he is not interested in evidence (see the pond), he is not interested in confessions (see Peter deVries). Hans is only interested in closing the case and getting his gangly ass back to Holland.

Hans wanted nothing to do with the new witness until Jossy's articles ran and the story filtered back to Holland. He acts like he had never heard of the guy. Maybe if he hadn't tried to intimidate the witness and discredit him he'd be in the loop, but that's just it, he doesn't want to be in the loop.

Mos admits the witness was heard before by police;

Mos: "These witness has stated things that he didn`t stated earlier to police. Also a number of things contrary to a previous reading in front of the police. "I`ve asked for the statement in its entirety but not received it yet." According to the witness he didn`t tell police and the judiciary everything, because he seriously doubted whether they want to solve the case. The lie detector test with nevertheless pointed out that the witness is telling the truth, Mos confirmed. "He has voluntarily cooperated with, so I understand."

De Telegraaf today

Hmmm. Believe it or not there is some truth in the above paragraph. 

[Dayhiker]

Hiya Monkeys. When was this witness 1st discovered? Has this witness actually given a statement to ALE? Seems I remember he was afraid to come forward because word on the street was if you did you would end up in jail.
If he gave a statement, why is Mos saying he didn't. Is this another piece of the pie that ALE has hidden/eaten/tossed? OR is Mos on the dirty dutch payroll of covering azzes?

Hopalong Hans and his sidekick Gabby Kruimel have shown a pattern of not being interested in solving the case until their backs are pressed against the wall. They didn't bother to press Joran's confession, they just let the judge smack'em down like they always have. Hans is not interested in witnesses (see the pond). he is not interested in evidence (see the pond), he is not interested in confessions (see Peter deVries). Hans is only interested in closing the case and getting his gangly ass back to Holland.

Hans wanted nothing to do with the new witness until Jossy's articles ran and the story filtered back to Holland. He acts like he had never heard of the guy. Maybe if he hadn't tried to intimidate the witness and discredit him he'd be in the loop, but that's just it, he doesn't want to be in the loop.

Mos admits the witness was heard before by police;

Mos: "These witness has stated things that he didn`t stated earlier to police. Also a number of things contrary to a previous reading in front of the police. "I`ve asked for the statement in its entirety but not received it yet." According to the witness he didn`t tell police and the judiciary everything, because he seriously doubted whether they want to solve the case. The lie detector test with nevertheless pointed out that the witness is telling the truth, Mos confirmed. "He has voluntarily cooperated with, so I understand."

De Telegraaf today

Thanks for the translation, Bastibro. Hans apparently wasn't intereted in hearing this witness until it was exposed to the media by Jossy. IMO investigators from Holland need to go into Aruba and re-interview all the witnesses discounted during Karin Jannsen's and Hans Mos' regimes, including the three girls that lodged a complaint against Joran for rape early on in the case. I would throw Dop Kruimel in there but she's just Hans' step-and-fetchit. I think they'll find similar coercion on the parts of both prosecutors to suppress testimony and evidence.

[Magnolia]

Is Aruba(ie Mos & ALE) still in charge of the Natalee invistigation
or have the Dutch taken it over?

I am curious as to why the bunch of Dutch investigators were
there ...complate with dogs.
Aruba has no facilities for the testing of the materials from the
searches.  They would have to send the things to NL or the FBI
or put them in the secret drawer with no bottom.

Hi Magnolia, Mos is still in charge as being public prosecutor.
The Dutch forensic team went back to Holland in 2007.
They were there because the Arubans had no forensic teams.
Of course they should have done that way, way earlier

Thank you,

[SS]

Mum - here's one of the sources saying that the witness came forward in the end of 2007.  Somewhere there's one that says December, 2007.  This one is from Red's front page post.

After he found out that the father of the man was a lawyer and
studying to become a judge, and that he was an intimate friend of a
high ranking police officer, he felt totally discouraged to come
forward with what he saw.

ON top of that, knowing that the Aruban judicial system is totally in
the hands of the Dutch, he forced himself to keep quiet. This lasted
for over 2 years, until the end of 2007, when he felt he had to tell
about what he saw, and so he came forward slowly, to explain what he
saw in front of his house, which is situated at about 500 meters from
the Dam of Monserat at Noord
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039

[Dayhiker]

Is Aruba(ie Mos & ALE) still in charge of the Natalee invistigation
or have the Dutch taken it over?

I am curious as to why the bunch of Dutch investigators were
there ...complate with dogs.
Aruba has no facilities for the testing of the materials from the
searches.  They would have to send the things to NL or the FBI
or put them in the secret drawer with no bottom.

Hi Magnolia, Mos is still in charge as being public prosecutor.
The Dutch forensic team went back to Holland in 2007.
They were there because the Arubans had no forensic teams.

Of course they should have done that way, way earlier

Amen to that Bastibro!

[Dayhiker]

Mum - here's one of the sources saying that the witness came forward in the end of 2007.  Somewhere there's one that says December, 2007.  This one is from Red's front page post.

After he found out that the father of the man was a lawyer and
studying to become a judge, and that he was an intimate friend of a
high ranking police officer, he felt totally discouraged to come
forward with what he saw.

ON top of that, knowing that the Aruban judicial system is totally in
the hands of the Dutch, he forced himself to keep quiet. This lasted
for over 2 years, until the end of 2007, when he felt he had to tell
about what he saw, and so he came forward slowly, to explain what he
saw in front of his house, which is situated at about 500 meters from
the Dam of Monserat at Noord
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039

He had probably heard the horror tales of previous witnesses who had been arrested, thrown in an asylum, mysteriously disappeared, or been forced to recant their testimony under pressure from dirty cops like Dennis Jacobs. You know he had to have been following the case closely all that time.

[KYcat]

****************************
Quote from: oceanexploration on March 03, 2008, 01:47:47 PM
There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.
***********************************************************

And Kermit said...

John sent the pics to his sister who is an active poster at BFN.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360082#msg360082


Then Kyle accused Red of posting the pictures.
************************************************************

Is Robin John Silvetti's sister???   

No.  Silvetti's sister is Lex or something on to that order.

IIRC, Caps is the one who said John sent pics to his sister who is a poster at BFN and it was pics of the pond after being drained not the crab trap footage.
Edited to correct sp.

[KYcat]

   CRAP trap!!! self-editing here.........crab trap!   

[LoRain]

Robin posted the pics on BNH....NOT BFN....

[bastibro]

Mum - here's one of the sources saying that the witness came forward in the end of 2007.  Somewhere there's one that says December, 2007.  This one is from Red's front page post.

After he found out that the father of the man was a lawyer and
studying to become a judge, and that he was an intimate friend of a
high ranking police officer, he felt totally discouraged to come
forward with what he saw.

ON top of that, knowing that the Aruban judicial system is totally in
the hands of the Dutch, he forced himself to keep quiet. This lasted
for over 2 years, until the end of 2007, when he felt he had to tell
about what he saw, and so he came forward slowly, to explain what he
saw in front of his house, which is situated at about 500 meters from
the Dam of Monserat at Noordhttp://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039

He had probably heard the horror tales of previous witnesses who had been arrested, thrown in an asylum, mysteriously disappeared, or been forced to recant their testimony under pressure from dirty cops like Dennis Jacobs. You know he had to have been following the case closely all that time.

Having read Beth`s book, i fully believe this witness saying he felt intimidated.
When a mr.Jacobs looks totally uninterested, let you wait for at least 2 hours, scratch his big belly and has to shave first to . .
And i haven`t even mention the whole bunch of other corrupt bastards

[Buckeye]

caesu or another Dutch poster:

Debbie at BFN posted this  (you will need to click the pdf link when you go to the link).  I believe it is the explanation of why the Dutch prosecutors will not be able to be involved with the Natalee case.  Could you please tell me what it says?  Something about their only job is drugs and money launderering...they cannot be involved in homicide. etc.  That needs to be Aruban??  TIA

http://www.om.nl/algemene_onderdelen/uitgebreid_zoeken/@143437/opportuun_maart_2008/
(Click on the PDF link on this page)

[Buckeye]

Thanks to Lala and klaas for Peter's video link.  One can never have to many shots of Peter R.....He is really easy on the eyes.  Go, Peter.  We are counting on you!!   

[SS]

Is Aruba(ie Mos & ALE) still in charge of the Natalee invistigation
or have the Dutch taken it over?

I am curious as to why the bunch of Dutch investigators were
there ...complate with dogs.
Aruba has no facilities for the testing of the materials from the
searches.  They would have to send the things to NL or the FBI
or put them in the secret drawer with no bottom.

Hi Magnolia, Mos is still in charge as being public prosecutor.
The Dutch forensic team went back to Holland in 2007.
They were there because the Arubans had no forensic teams.

Of course they should have done that way, way earlier

Amen to that Bastibro!

I believe that the Dutch forensic team was there.  We heard that they had arrived from Kyle and we had heard from another source.  One of our sources described the Dutch team as searching more than the pond.  They also searched around the Lekker restaurant and the Matty Apts.  ALE were the ones who were saying that there hadn't been a search, and we all know how reliable infromation is from ALE.  Aruba doesn't have high tech forensic equipment and they needed the Dutch expertise.  I am surprised that John was there and only stayed for two days.  If they allowed John to be there, I don't know why they didn't have Tim and his TES crew there.


Does anyone know if there has been any reaction from the Sloots about the Diario articles or the Emmy?  Have Julia or her groupies had any comments?

[Buckeye]

caesu or another Dutch poster:

Debbie at BFN posted this  (you will need to click the pdf link when you go to the link).  I believe it is the explanation of why the Dutch prosecutors will not be able to be involved with the Natalee case.  Could you please tell me what it says?  Something about their only job is drugs and money launderering...they cannot be involved in homicide. etc.  That needs to be Aruban??  TIA

http://www.om.nl/algemene_onderdelen/uitgebreid_zoeken/@143437/opportuun_maart_2008/
(Click on the PDF link on this page)

One more thing...if this is true...then who is the "Aruban" prosecutor that is really responsible for this case?  Is Hans Mos only a mouthpiece and taking direction from an Aruban?

[Dayhiker]

He had probably heard the horror tales of previous witnesses who had been arrested, thrown in an asylum, mysteriously disappeared, or been forced to recant their testimony under pressure from dirty cops like Dennis Jacobs. You know he had to have been following the case closely all that time.

Having read Beth`s book, i fully believe this witness saying he felt intimidated.
When a mr.Jacobs looks totally uninterested, let you wait for at least 2 hours, scratch his big belly and has to shave first to . .
And i haven`t even mention the whole bunch of other corrupt bastards

LOL @ "scratch his big belly". Yep, there is plenty of blame to go around in all departments of the Aruban government who just didn't want the case solved. They banked on the case "going away" like all others in the past, but their past caught up with them. This is one case that I would have gladly given them a crystal ball if I had one. If they would have any any idea of the amount of hell they were going to bring down on themselves and their rotten island I believe they would have given up Joran and Paulus the first week.

[SS]

This is very interesting.  The OM's office has actually admitted that the pond was searched twice.  TES was there to search for the Tromp boy.  I wonder if TES also searched the drained pond???   

Quote from: johan555 on September 11, 2008, 03:42:08 PM
OM: Dam Monserat previously investigated
September 11, 2008, 15:30 (GMT -04:00)


ORANJESTAD - The investigation into the missing teenager Natalee Holloway has not shown that her body in the dam of Monserat. "The dam is twice examined in the investigation of Holloway and recently in the vermissingzaak Vincenzo Tromp," said Ann Angela, spokesman for the Public Prosecutor (OM)
According to the PPS, it is not true that a special investigation team from the Netherlands, as yesterday morning newspaper Diario reported to the barrier further. Angela: "During the investigations into Holloway and Tromp is no indication that found in the dam a cadaver or something else burdensome."
The morning newspaper announces that finally proved that what an Aruban witness has stated, is the the truth .
 This would witness a leugendetectortest (liedetector)in the United States have undergone and have been successful.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.480

[texasmom]

Mum - here's one of the sources saying that the witness came forward in the end of 2007.  Somewhere there's one that says December, 2007.  This one is from Red's front page post.

After he found out that the father of the man was a lawyer and
studying to become a judge, and that he was an intimate friend of a
high ranking police officer, he felt totally discouraged to come
forward with what he saw.

ON top of that, knowing that the Aruban judicial system is totally in
the hands of the Dutch, he forced himself to keep quiet. This lasted
for over 2 years, until the end of 2007, when he felt he had to tell
about what he saw, and so he came forward slowly, to explain what he
saw in front of his house, which is situated at about 500 meters from
the Dam of Monserat at Noord
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039

He had probably heard the horror tales of previous witnesses who had been arrested, thrown in an asylum, mysteriously disappeared, or been forced to recant their testimony under pressure from dirty cops like Dennis Jacobs. You know he had to have been following the case closely all that time.

I agree with you Dayhiker!  This is a statement from the recent A & E presentation:

"In late 2007 investigators learned that potential witness with good information did keep quiet in fear of becoming the media's latest target for a prime time interview."

Yeah right.    

[bastibro]

       Great Work