Lively Case Discussion #613 5/4 - 5/5/2007

[mishy]

ROB - did you leave your shoes on the beach too?  Looks like Joran found them to be a perfect fit    

Klaas, did you shrink Joran's head on this pic? Or is it normally that small?        

[Silverfox]

I wonder if ALE questioned the driver and the owner as to the time and dates of delivery?  What is the name of said truck's company?  Should have been a follow up on that one for sure.

My guess would be that Paulus thought up the snack truck when he was trying to figure out if anyone had seen what went on that night, and he found out that the snack truck was out and about and after he confirmed the driver did not see Joran and he was out at such time, Joran conveniently uses that in his statement.  Put them all in front of a firing squad.

knock knock...

hello?

look, the only reason joran ever cited the example of the snack truck was because he was trying to justify his timeline -- aluding to an idea that it wasn't even late enough for the truck driver to be there....

The problem is that this proves nothing becuase he just as easily could have driven by "after" the truck driver left....

but....

what he didn't know was that the truck driver was off anyway....

timeline blown no matter how you look at it....

no truck driver -- no alibi

[Tylergal]

MANSUR: You know, he`s a gardener of a friend of ours that we know very well. And that night, it was very hot in his apartment, as it has been hot all this week in Aruba. And he left his own apartment to go this house where he works as a gardener, where he has an air-conditioned room.

The gardener worked for Jossy's son and others.

Jossy's nephew, JR.

[Tylergal]

We need the driver's name to ensure that he has not been questioned seven times.

[Tylergal]

I wonder if ALE questioned the driver and the owner as to the time and dates of delivery?  What is the name of said truck's company?  Should have been a follow up on that one for sure.

My guess would be that Paulus thought up the snack truck when he was trying to figure out if anyone had seen what went on that night, and he found out that the snack truck was out and about and after he confirmed the driver did not see Joran and he was out at such time, Joran conveniently uses that in his statement.  Put them all in front of a firing squad.

knock knock...

hello?

look, the only reason joran ever cited the example of the snack truck was because he was trying to justify his timeline -- aluding to an idea that it wasn't even late enough for the truck driver to be there....

The problem is that this proves nothing becuase he just as easily could have driven by "after" the truck driver left....

but....

what he didn't know was that the truck driver was off anyway....

timeline blown no matter how you look at it....

no truck driver -- no alibi

So is this still Sunday night or is this Monday morning?  I am sure you have checked that Silver Fox, just wondering.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

ROB - did you leave your shoes on the beach too?  Looks like Joran found them to be a perfect fit    

Klaas, did you shrink Joran's head on this pic? Or is it normally that small?        

 LOL Mishy..  he needs to back up some. looks like that Zebra is ready to mount him. huh?    

[friend of monkeys]

BB....ty for post on interview w/ Reynolds on pg 3???  i had not seen that inj a while.....

Spock...the crazy thing is......he is a sociopath and chronic liar.......
In that way....there is no way to ever really nail him down on anything he says...and since he and little Val learned this great art of deception from Papa Sloot......well.........i just don't want to end up in the nut house trying to figure out all their lies.......I just want to hear one bit of truth....
WHERE IS  NATALEE???

I know u all feel the same...trying to figure out that familys statements combined with ALE destruction of such is just giving me a headache....

[friend of monkeys]

MANSUR: You know, he`s a gardener of a friend of ours that we know very well. And that night, it was very hot in his apartment, as it has been hot all this week in Aruba. And he left his own apartment to go this house where he works as a gardener, where he has an air-conditioned room.

The gardener worked for Jossy's son and others.

Jossy's nephew, JR.

And Arlene?  Or Renfro?  Maybe Oduber...lol

[klaasend]

According to Tjeerd at FOB - the author of this article about Joran's book believes the book makes Joran more suspect.

http://www.elsevier.nl/opinie/weblog/asp/artnr/150889/weblogid/53/index.html

vrijdag 4 mei 2007 14:57

Heeft de destijds 17-jarige Joran van der Sloot de 18-jarige Natalee Holloway vermoord of is hij onschuldig?

Twee jaar geleden – op 30 mei 2005 – verdween de Amerikaanse blondine spoorloos op Aruba tijdens een 'graduation trip' met medescholieren. Zelf beweert Van der Sloot in zijn recent verschenen boek 'De zaak Natalee Holloway. Mijn eigen verhaal over haar verdwijning op Aruba' dat hij haar na een wilde nacht dronken achterliet op het strand vlak bij haar hotel.

Notoire leugenaar
Maar met dat verhaal kwam hij pas later. Van der Sloot erkent dat hij een notoire leugenaar is en liep daarvoor bij de psychiater.

Zijn boek – opgetekend door journalist Zvezdana Vukojevic – biedt een aardig inkijkje in het schaduwbestaan van een losgeslagen puber: uitgaan, gokken, drinken en zo veel mogelijk meiden versieren.

Maar Joran – zoon van een Nederlandse rechter in opleiding die na het drama advocaat werd – heeft naar eigen zeggen ook een serieuze kant en wilde na de middelbare school in Amerika sportmanagement studeren.

Het boek zwalkt tussen een persoonlijk dagboek en een ‘objectieve’ reconstructie van de zaak. Dat gekleurde perspectief wringt. Datzelfde geldt voor het in 2006 verschenen boek van de vader van Natalee: 'Aruba. The tragic untold story of Natalee Holloway and corruption in paradise'.

Seksslavin
Het verhaal over de wanhopige zoektocht ontroert, maar de beschuldigingen van corruptie maakt Dave Holloway nergens hard. Wel toont hij aan dat het onderzoek rammelt. Holloway sluit niet uit dat zijn dochter nog leeft en mogelijk ergens in Zuid-Amerika werkt als seksslavin.

Twee jaar na haar verdwijning ontbreekt nog altijd elk spoor van Natalee. Afgelopen week nog zochten rechercheurs vergeefs naar sporen in en rond het huis van Jorans ouders. Zijn eigen appartement op het terrein was destijds al grondig uitgekamd.

Joran van der Sloot geldt voor Justitie nog altijd als verdachte, maar op basis van het huidige materiaal gaat hij vrijuit.

Na lezing van zijn eigen versie van de gebeurtenissen heb ik zelf alleen maar meer twijfels gekregen.

Aan het einde van zijn boek schrijft Joran: ‘Ik ben geen verkrachter. Ik ben geen moordenaar. Het enige waar ik schuldig aan ben is het achterlaten van een meisje op het strand en liegen. De rest van mijn leven zal ik de consequenties moeten dragen van die enorme inschattingsfout.’

Ik wil hem graag op zijn woord geloven, maar met een pathologische leugenaar is dat wel veel gevraagd.

Babelfish translation:

Friday 4 May 2007 14:57

Has the at that time 17-birthday Joran Van der Sloot the 18-birthday Natalee Holloway murdered or is he innocent?

Two year ago – on 30 May 2005 – the American blonde disappeared trip' without trace on Aruba during a 'graduation with medescholieren. Self maintains be recent appeared book Van der Sloot in 'De affair Natalee Holloway. My own story over her disappearance on Aruba' that he her after a wild night drank left behind on the beach flatten by her hotel.

Notoire liar
Only with that story came he fit later on. Van of the Ditch recognizes that he a notoire liar is and walked for that reason at the psychiatrist.

Its book – written down through journalist Zvezdana Vukojevic – offers a nice inkijkje in the shadow existence of a knocked loose adolescent: go out, gamble, drink and decorate so much possible girls.

But Joran – son of a Dutch right in training that after the drama lawyer became – has to own say also a serious side and savage to the secondary school in America sport management study.

The book drifts about between a personal diary and an 'objective' reconstruction of the affair. That colored perspective wrings. That same counts for it in 2006 appeared book of the father of Natalee: 'Aruba. The tragic untold story or Natalee Holloway and corruption in paradise'.

Sex slave
The story over the desperate missing journey moves, but the accusations of corruption makes Dave Holloway nowhere hard. Well shows he at that the investigation rattles. Holloway closes not from that its daughter yet lives and possible somewhere in South-america works as sex slave.

Two year after her disappearance yet always each track of Natalee is missing. Past week yet detectives sought in vain to tracks in and around the house of Jorans parents. Its own apartment on the grounds thoroughly had been combed at that time already..

Joran Van der Sloot counts for Justice yet always as suspect, but on basis of the present material, he goes freely.

After lecture of its own version of the events, I got self only more doubts.

At the end of its book, Joran writes: 'I am no verkrachter. I am no murderer. The simply goods I offender on am is the leaving behind of a girl on the beach and lie. The rest of my life will must carry I the consequences of that enormous inschattingsfout.'

I want him gladly on its word believe, but with a pathological liar am that well much asked.

[Tamikosmom]

MANSUR: You know, he`s a gardener of a friend of ours that we know very well. And that night, it was very hot in his apartment, as it has been hot all this week in Aruba. And he left his own apartment to go this house where he works as a gardener, where he has an air-conditioned room.

The gardener worked for Jossy's son and others.

The only member of the Mansur family that I have come across in my research that the gardener worked for was Eric Mansur ... Jossy's cousin.  Spock ... help me out here.  LOL

Thanks

Janet


Vanity Fair Article

One night they were inside poring over rumors when a Mansur cousin's teenage son suddenly blurted out, "I know Cumpa! He's my uncle's gardener!"  The boy hopped in Eduardo Mansur's truck and led Wood to a large seaside home owned by Jossy Mansur's cousin Eric Mansur, a wealthy importer. Wood found Cumpa, whose name turned out to be Carlos, in the yard. "He tells me that on that night, May 30, he couldn't sleep," Wood recalls. "It was 2:30 and it was so hot—he didn't have air-conditioning—he said, 'I got up, I told my wife I'm going to my boss's house,'" which was air-conditioned.

[Rob]

I thought Eric and Elias were Jossy's sons. Maybe I have that wrong.

[Tamikosmom]

I thought Eric and Elias were Jossy's sons. Maybe I have that wrong.

Who is Eduardo Mansur?

Janet

[Rob]

I thought Eric and Elias were Jossy's sons. Maybe I have that wrong.

Who is Eduardo Mansur?

Janet

Not totally sure.. there are more Mansurs' Janet. There is also a Luis that is involved in all kinds of Florida based businesses and other companies.

[bleachedblack]

I wonder if ALE questioned the driver and the owner as to the time and dates of delivery?  What is the name of said truck's company?  Should have been a follow up on that one for sure.

My guess would be that Paulus thought up the snack truck when he was trying to figure out if anyone had seen what went on that night, and he found out that the snack truck was out and about and after he confirmed the driver did not see Joran and he was out at such time, Joran conveniently uses that in his statement.  Put them all in front of a firing squad.

knock knock...

hello?

look, the only reason joran ever cited the example of the snack truck was because he was trying to justify his timeline -- aluding to an idea that it wasn't even late enough for the truck driver to be there....

The problem is that this proves nothing becuase he just as easily could have driven by "after" the truck driver left....

but....

what he didn't know was that the truck driver was off anyway....

timeline blown no matter how you look at it....

no truck driver -- no alibi

There is often a partial truth IMO to the stories joran tells. What I was trying to raise was the question of location.

[igsigs]

The Shoes

Per Lazlo/RU Joran says in his book the Freddy, Deepak and Satish tried to help him by buying him a new pair of shoes.

[bleachedblack]

I thought Eric and Elias were Jossy's sons. Maybe I have that wrong.

Who is Eduardo Mansur?

Janet

Not totally sure.. there are more Mansurs' Janet. There is also a Luis that is involved in all kinds of Florida based businesses and other companies.

Eduardo is likely another one of Jossy's brothers.

http://tinyurl.com/yqysaq

[friend of monkeys]

maybe...hi ips......possible...in the beginning...the whole thing about his slipper statement is ummmmmmmmm...slippery....who the hell carrrys around slippers???  rubbers , --maybe........

[friend of monkeys]

see u monkeys later...library is closing.....

[klaasend]

The Shoes

Per Lazlo/RU Joran says in his book the Freddy, Deepak and Satish tried to help him by buying him a new pair of shoes.

WTF?

[friend of monkeys]

Bye Klass.........have a good weekend.....