Natalee Case Discussion #740 3/5 - 3/7/08

[Dayhiker]

Robin wanted me to see them and analyze them.  LOL  Jackb

 

[Buckeye]

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.

So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?

 

[Kiwi]

Another link could be reason for the ATM nite trip for a few hundred dollars. To pay to borrow the boat from the fisherman. Possibly not knowing why until after its use, which would keep them quiet. Just speculation only. Hopefully they were not involved at all.

[billb's daughter]

The trap still intrigues me. It is possible that the one found could have been the one that was stolen, but based on what we know thus far, it likely did not contain remains related to this case. However, I think its possible it COULD have contained other items of evidence.

Then again, if that is true, one has to ask the question why go through so much trouble to dispose of clothes, shoes, etc., in such a manner.

THe bottom lines is I don't think the cage we are looking for has been found yet.

Bladerunner...what you say makes sense, but I can't stop thinking the knife/machete rope, etc and maybe other evidence (tennis shoe(s) any other evidence) may have been hastily disposed of in the trap and taken out that night. Natalee may have also been buried near the fish hut and later moved (landfill, water, incinerated??). I guess in this order: they buried Natalee first, then realized they needed to dispose of evidence-thats where the trap comes into play. They probably wouldn't think to take it too far out that night, thus the 90 ft depth. JMO

That scenario could very well have happened. If your pressed for time you might not think to go out too far either. Are you thinking that a fisherman's boat was involved or a "freinds boat?"

I would suspect fishermen boat already moored near the huts, as it would probably be better suited to handle the trap...

[Bladerunner]

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.

So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?

So the "kiddies" get the easy assignment, all they have to do is put the evidence in the trap and take it out to sea on Monday night while the adults were busy with the business end of things, trying to figure out what to do with the dead body of Natalee Holloway.

[Buckeye]

If who ever Joran called could have broke into the hut looking for the key to the fishing boat parked by the hut. If they returned it back to its mooring it would appear that it was never moved. Plus no need to find a boat that could hold the trap.
[/quote]

 

[Dayhiker]

Burying evidence is also plausible, but I think they were in panic mode when "something bad happened" They buried Natalee in haste, then thought of evidence. The trap was there (and a fishing boat), maybe called for help (koen, K2, SC??) to handle trap. I have heard alot about possible Koen and his boat used for disposal, and that may have been the case. But if Koen's boat was too small, they more than likely use the fishing boat moored, since it was probably better suited to handle the trap. They used the boat to move the trap, then placed it back at its mooring. The purpose of using the trap for the evidence is to distance the evidence from the body. Could have been Paulus idea to do that initially, with Paulus then planning to move her body later, with or without letting the others know of his plan.

I'm thinking Steve Croes. In fact he could have used that party boat to drag the trap out that short a distance if his little boat couldn't.

[Observer]

Soooooooooo what name did Patrick give as the person who helped dump Natalee into the ocean? We know it wasn't Daury! I think it's a name we all know and thats why they didn't air tonights program!

[billb's daughter]

Hi all- Here is something that may be important. Did Ale actually check the fishermans boat to see if any of Natalee's DNA could be found or blood. Its possible the boat that could transport a trap was sitting there all along. Next question did they keep the keys in the hut?

That begs the question, did ALE check anything? There are lots of boats not far away at the moorings in front of the hotels and rumor has it Koen Gottenbos had his boat parked there. There are very few put-in points where he lives on the north end of the island.

ALE and Karin Jannsen refused to interview him causing Asst. Prosecutor Amylin Flanigan to quit the investigation.

Just maybe, Koen's boat was used to transport Natalee/evidence from painted rocks area to fishing hut? Then fishing hut/trap/fishermen boat comes into play??

[Dayhiker]

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.

So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?

So the "kiddies" get the easy assignment, all they have to do is put the evidence in the trap and take it out to sea on Monday night while the adults were busy with the business end of things, trying to figure out what to do with the dead body of Natalee Holloway.

I like it.

[Buckeye]

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.

So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?

So the "kiddies" get the easy assignment, all they have to do is put the evidence in the trap and take it out to sea on Monday night while the adults were busy with the business end of things, trying to figure out what to do with the dead body of Natalee Holloway.

The kiddies and adults put Natalee in the cage with the other evidence, Monday night or early morning, when fishermen left.

[Bladerunner]

Burying evidence is also plausible, but I think they were in panic mode when "something bad happened" They buried Natalee in haste, then thought of evidence. The trap was there (and a fishing boat), maybe called for help (koen, K2, SC??) to handle trap. I have heard alot about possible Koen and his boat used for disposal, and that may have been the case. But if Koen's boat was too small, they more than likely use the fishing boat moored, since it was probably better suited to handle the trap. They used the boat to move the trap, then placed it back at its mooring. The purpose of using the trap for the evidence is to distance the evidence from the body. Could have been Paulus idea to do that initially, with Paulus then planning to move her body later, with or without letting the others know of his plan.

I'm thinking Steve Croes. In fact he could have used that party boat to drag the trap out that short a distance if his little boat couldn't.

How does the duffle bag fit into this timeline with the cage?

[Dayhiker]

Hi all- Here is something that may be important. Did Ale actually check the fishermans boat to see if any of Natalee's DNA could be found or blood. Its possible the boat that could transport a trap was sitting there all along. Next question did they keep the keys in the hut?

That begs the question, did ALE check anything? There are lots of boats not far away at the moorings in front of the hotels and rumor has it Koen Gottenbos had his boat parked there. There are very few put-in points where he lives on the north end of the island.

ALE and Karin Jannsen refused to interview him causing Asst. Prosecutor Amylin Flanigan to quit the investigation.

Just maybe, Koen's boat was used to transport Natalee/evidence from painted rocks area to fishing hut? Then fishing hut/trap/fishermen boat comes into play??

I like it. I think Steve Croes would be more adept and knowledgeable than Koen but would not rule either of them out. Just moving a trap may be no great shakes for either.

[hotping]

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.

So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?

So the "kiddies" get the easy assignment, all they have to do is put the evidence in the trap and take it out to sea on Monday night while the adults were busy with the business end of things, trying to figure out what to do with the dead body of Natalee Holloway.

My thinking is that Natalee was probably at the Vandersloot House when Beth and Jug arrived there on Monday Night...I don't know if I believe Natalee was still alive or not but I believe She was on the property that night....Paulus refused to let them inside the gates or in the house so that tells Me that he had something to hide if not why not gladly let them look. JMO

[Buckeye]

Soooooooooo what name did Patrick give as the person who helped dump Natalee into the ocean? We know it wasn't Daury!

Didn't Mos say the name was not Daury?? and didn't Peter R. say something about that not being the name Joran said?  I'm thinking everybody knows the name, but us...and it is a "power" person...

[Dayhiker]

Burying evidence is also plausible, but I think they were in panic mode when "something bad happened" They buried Natalee in haste, then thought of evidence. The trap was there (and a fishing boat), maybe called for help (koen, K2, SC??) to handle trap. I have heard alot about possible Koen and his boat used for disposal, and that may have been the case. But if Koen's boat was too small, they more than likely use the fishing boat moored, since it was probably better suited to handle the trap. They used the boat to move the trap, then placed it back at its mooring. The purpose of using the trap for the evidence is to distance the evidence from the body. Could have been Paulus idea to do that initially, with Paulus then planning to move her body later, with or without letting the others know of his plan.

I'm thinking Steve Croes. In fact he could have used that party boat to drag the trap out that short a distance if his little boat couldn't.

How does the duffle bag fit into this timeline with the cage?

It definitely pushes it back a day.

[billb's daughter]

Another link could be reason for the ATM nite trip for a few hundred dollars. To pay to borrow the boat from the fisherman. Possibly not knowing why until after its use, which would keep them quiet. Just speculation only. Hopefully they were not involved at all.

Probably ATM cash was used to try and replace used fuel, so the fishermen would not become suspicious seeing low fuel? 

[Observer]

Soooooooooo what name did Patrick give as the person who helped dump Natalee into the ocean? We know it wasn't Daury!

Didn't Mos say the name was not Daury?? and didn't Peter R. say something about that not being the name Joran said?  I'm thinking everybody knows the name, but us...and it is a "power" person...

Patrick said the name on that recording for Aruban TV and it is not Daury! No wonder why they cancelled the show so they can protect him..Eh Um I mean investigate him! 

[Bladerunner]

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.

So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?

So the "kiddies" get the easy assignment, all they have to do is put the evidence in the trap and take it out to sea on Monday night while the adults were busy with the business end of things, trying to figure out what to do with the dead body of Natalee Holloway.

The kiddies and adults put Natalee in the cage with the other evidence, Monday night or early morning, when fishermen left.

If one was really cover all bases then the collateral evidence would NOT be disposed of with the body. I would assume Paulus would not take that chance. However, since Joran is so unflinching in his comfort that "they will never find her" then an all-in disposal of the body and evidence might have occured.

[Buckeye]

If it happened Sunday night, the fishermen were there and would have seen them.....must have been the next night...or after fishermen went home.

So Monday night would have been when Beth arrived and saw Joran and Deepak and they were not dressed like they had been to the casino...right?

So the "kiddies" get the easy assignment, all they have to do is put the evidence in the trap and take it out to sea on Monday night while the adults were busy with the business end of things, trying to figure out what to do with the dead body of Natalee Holloway.

My thinking is that Natalee was probably at the Vandersloot House when Beth and Jug arrived there on Monday Night...I don't know if I believe Natalee was still alive or not but I believe She was on the property that night....Paulus refused to let them inside the gates or in the house so that tells Me that he had something to hide if not why not gladly let them look. JMO

or she was there when Alberto jumped the gate and got the license plate and then they left with her.