Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/5/2007

[Destiny]

Ramm

Isn't there some big drug initiative involving cooperation between Aruba, the Dutch and others (?US)?  Wouldn't this give KLPD some say??  Weren't they there during the "take down"?

No, in our legal system it is the DA who leads investigations and the police serves him in his investigations, not the other way around.

If there is an international or multinational agreement, between the heads of state, wouldn't the DA have to encourage cooperation between groups...even if they didn't want to?? Who gives the "marching orders" to the DA??

The Elders '-)

Dest

Shhhhh..I was sneaking that one in.....

otay....shhhhhhhhhhhh

DEST

[fran]

On 6-11 Aruban police commissioner van der Straaten was asked by a Dutch journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? Van der Straaten replied, “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.” When asked why not, van der Straaten replied, “Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!”

I believe this is when they realized she was dead and started calling it a homicide instead of a missing person.

1.The three suspects were arrested on June 9, 2005
2.The confession was on June 10, 2005
3.Chicago videos of suspicious activity out by the lighthouse area.
4.The announcement of the confession was on June 10, 2005, by Unid'd ALE officer, Dompig, and spokesman for PM, all told to U.S. MSM separately.
5.The PM got on Dutch radio night of June 10, 2005, 'said if something bad happened to Natalee Holloway in Aruba, it would be bad for tourism."
6.The retraction of the announcement was on June 11, 2005.
7.The retraction of the announcement was the same day as Van der Stratton made this statement, 'Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't.'
8.The last of the 'available' Chicago videos, the painting of the rocks.

Sorry, hate to post and run, while I'm also way behind in the conversation, but couldn't help myself.

fran

[San]

Did anyone on the island let MF know that Lorenzo's been released??  I feel sorry for him.  He has such a following.  Maybe Destiny can give him her contact info. 

BadBaaaaaaaaddBBBaaaaaaaaaaad Buckeye!

BTW. when I called Aruba 2day...I did not in any way mention the case, nor anyone involved, nor our SM site.

Way back when, I was putting myself through school, I worked as an assistant to a PI...learned a lot from him I did

Destiny

Now call the KLPD and find out whats going on.

unfortunately the KLPD has not say over Aruban criminal cases like the one from Lorenzo. He was arrested on Aruban drugs offenses charges and his release was either by order of a judge or most likely by order of the DA. The ALE also has no say over who gets released from jail (at least not when the DA has been notified of said arrest).

Would this apply for Natalee's case also?  Why are they investigating the case if they have no say in the case.

[GrannyToad]

Granny

So, does this mean you believe the Venz. bone to be more primate than human??

What I see in that image appears to be a monkey's hand, radius & ulna. Laid on that newspaper, at a guess it's good-sized, so maybe a howler monkey.

[Buckeye]

Granny

So, does this mean you believe the Venz. bone to be more primate than human??

What I see in that image appears to be a monkey's hand, radius & ulna. Laid on that newspaper, at a guess it's good-sized, so maybe a howler monkey.

Thanks.  I will now quit worrying about it. 

[Destiny]

Did anyone on the island let MF know that Lorenzo's been released??  I feel sorry for him.  He has such a following.  Maybe Destiny can give him her contact info. 

BadBaaaaaaaaddBBBaaaaaaaaaaad Buckeye!

BTW. when I called Aruba 2day...I did not in any way mention the case, nor anyone involved, nor our SM site.

Way back when, I was putting myself through school, I worked as an assistant to a PI...learned a lot from him I did

Destiny

Now call the KLPD and find out whats going on.

unfortunately the KLPD has not say over Aruban criminal cases like the one from Lorenzo. He was arrested on Aruban drugs offenses charges and his release was either by order of a judge or most likely by order of the DA. The ALE also has no say over who gets released from jail (at least not when the DA has been notified of said arrest).

Would this apply for Natalee's case also?  Why are they investigating the case if they have no say in the case.

Yeah....what San Said....

Dest

[mrs. red]

Granny

So, does this mean you believe the Venz. bone to be more primate than human??

What I see in that image appears to be a monkey's hand, radius & ulna. Laid on that newspaper, at a guess it's good-sized, so maybe a howler monkey.

thanks Granny... that answers that.

[Rammstein]

Would this apply for Natalee's case also?  Why are they investigating the case if they have no say in the case.

because they were asked to do so by the Aruban Ministry of Justice. However, the DA of Aruba is still the one who is in charge of the investigation.

[Buckeye]

Ramm

If there is an international or multinational agreement, between the heads of state, wouldn't the DA have to encourage cooperation between groups...even if they didn't want to?? Who gives the "marching orders" to the DA??

[Destiny]

Would this apply for Natalee's case also?  Why are they investigating the case if they have no say in the case.

because they were asked to do so by the Aruban Ministry of Justice. However, the DA of Aruba is still the one who is in charge of the investigation.

And the circle it goes round and round...come on everyone sing along with me.....this whole case is so frustrating.

Dest

[IndyDan]

   Who else could hide her body better from the polis THAN the polis!!!!

I'm pretty sure PVDS handled the body disposal.

I do agree

[bleachedblack]

Granny

So, does this mean you believe the Venz. bone to be more primate than human??

What I see in that image appears to be a monkey's hand, radius & ulna. Laid on that newspaper, at a guess it's good-sized, so maybe a howler monkey.

I don't disagree Granny. I am just wondering how you were able to decide this?

[San]

Would this apply for Natalee's case also?  Why are they investigating the case if they have no say in the case.

because they were asked to do so by the Aruban Ministry of Justice. However, the DA of Aruba is still the one who is in charge of the investigation.

Yes I remember that Rudy Croes requested their help but what good is their help if the Aruban Prosecutor doesn't want to prosecute this case.  When all is said and done it is the prosecutor who calls the shots and we are back to square one.

[klaasend]

Ramm - is there any possibility that the Netherlands could put pressure on the DA to bring it to trial? 

[Rammstein]

Ramm

If there is an international or multinational agreement, between the heads of state, wouldn't the DA have to encourage cooperation between groups...even if they didn't want to?? Who gives the "marching orders" to the DA??

actually no, the DA would be in charge of those foreign officers. There are rules and regulations regarding international cooperation but they are based on in which country the combined effort takes place. And during those operations dutch law must not be broken to obtain the result the officers are striving for.

There is a boss in the DA's office which hands out the assignments but most cases like these are handled by the "Nationaal Parket" which is a division inside the DA department solely responsible for matters like "organized crime", "international crime" and terrorism.

The head of the Nationaal Parket is mr. A.J.A.M. Nieuwenhuizen

The head of the Aruban department is the Procureur Generaal Croes-Fernandes Pedra

[Rammstein]

Ramm - is there any possibility that the Netherlands could put pressure on the DA to bring it to trial? 

no, the DA is independent precisely to avoid politicians pressuring them for politically based prosecutions.

[klaasend]

Ramm - is there any possibility that the Netherlands could put pressure on the DA to bring it to trial? 

no, the DA is independent precisely to avoid politicians pressuring them for politically based prosecutions.

Darn - thanks Ramm

[Buckeye]

Ramm

Let's say, for whatever reason (sleeping with a suspect; bribed...), the DA is crooked.  What recourse does the country have??  Where is the "checks and balances" on that office??

[fran]

Ramm - is there any possibility that the Netherlands could put pressure on the DA to bring it to trial? 

no, the DA is independent precisely to avoid politicians pressuring them for politically based prosecutions.

Darn - thanks Ramm

OK, I don't get it. Didn't Aruba ask for the Dutch help? Wouldn't they need to go by their findings, or just ignore them? Aren't they all under the same laws, rules?

Would they keep the Dutch results secret?

Are we back to square one? 

fran

[IndyDan]

Would this apply for Natalee's case also?  Why are they investigating the case if they have no say in the case.

because they were asked to do so by the Aruban Ministry of Justice. However, the DA of Aruba is still the one who is in charge of the investigation.

So if one were to assume a corrupt legal system, particularly a good ole boy network with motive to coverup a crime against a young American girl -- who is the ultimate SUPERVISOR to call this out?  Is there anyone in the chain of command that has the real muscle to step in?