Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[vms]

I am actually speechless regarding this article about the McCann's possibly have to surrender their twins. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I actually don't think this will happen, just legal protocol.........

Can you imagine enduring this if you were completely innocent? Well, innocent of having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I know they are guilty of leaving the children unattended. I really, really hope they had nothing to do with the disappearance. I just cannot accept otherwise at this point.

[Rob]

For those that do not think the British are deadly serious about taking the twins. I found this story last week and it's a real tear jerker.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=480201&in_page_id=1879

My baby will be taken from me the moment it's born
By HELEN WEATHERS - More by this author » Last updated at 11:30am on 6th September 2007

___________________

I think it's totally outrageous.

As most here know - there has been a campaign by some to have the twins removed for over three months. They live, sleep, and breathe hoping that the McCanns will lose the twins. I see it as being nothing but vindictive.

Also, why no effort to remove the children from Tanner and O'Brien? Or the Oldfeilds. All left their children alone... as I suspect was the standard on holiday in Praia Da Luz.

We had a story here a few years ago, a woman and her sister were on the South Side and decided to have a coffee. They left their kids in the strollers and went inside. Next thing they knew they were being arrested.

Problem - they were from Denmark and it seem to be a common occurance where they were from.

I don't condone it, but apparently there are different standards depending on where you are from.

[BlueKYGirl]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=480201&in_page_id=1879

My baby will be taken from me the moment it's born
By HELEN WEATHERS - More by this author » Last updated at 11:30am on 6th September 2007

That girl's baby is due two days before mine. I cannot imagine how she must feel at the threat of her baby being taken away.

The McCanns seem to have a vast support system of capable friends and family who'd be glad to look after the twins if they needed to go to Portugal for legal reasons. As someone said above, they haven't been proven guilty of anything. Even if they had, the children should be cared for by their aunts, uncles, grandparents, or godparents. Putting them into the system doesn't seem the answer in this case.

[MuffyBee]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/mccanns+phone+line+tapped/786152
McCanns' phone line tapped
Last Modified: 10 Sep 2007
By: Simon Israel
The statements and evidence which have been gathered by Portuguese Police over the last 132 days is colossal, amounting to thousands of pages.

But they contain not just the much-discussed forensic reports of blood stains and other material but also, Channel 4 News understands, transcripts of recorded phone conversations the McCanns have had with others over many weeks. There is also evidence from emails they have sent and received.

We also understand that Portuguese police have been in daily contact with the forensic laboratories in Birmingham seeking further reports.

We believe that an expert in blood-splatter analysis can determine if dried blood is from a live or a dead person.

It just may be that that is the difference between what was found in the apartment and in the boot of the car the McCanns hired twenty-five days after Madeleine disappeared

A decision is expected from the Portuguese courts within the next few days as just to where this case goes next.

The District Attorney will receive a dossier and then decide whether to issue charges against any or all of the three aguidos - that is Kate and Gerry McCann, and Robert Murat - or request further police investigations for anything up to eight months.

What he will not do is close this case - for there is still a missing child. Simon Israel.

[mbs]

If they truly did find Madeline's blood under the upholstery of the trunk of the car, it sounds very suspicious.  However, I think it's too soon to know if these reports are factual.  According to this article, the Portuguese authorities are refusing to confirm or deny the reports:

"Police spokesman Olegario Sousa refused to confirm or deny the reports, but said they did not come from the Policia Judiciaria."

http://tinyurl.com/ywmjv5

There have been so many false reports in this case, I'd have to wait for confirmation before drawing any conclusions. I hate to see so many people on the British forums condemning the McCanns based on reports which may or may not be true. I just believe the family of a missing child should be given the benefit of the doubt before people begin assuming they are guilty. If there is really any evidence against them, they will be charged. Unfortunately, they may be charged even if there is not any evidence against them.

[bleachedblack]

Rob wrote;

For those that do not think the British are deadly serious about taking the twins. I found this story last week and it's a real tear jerker.

Serious yes.......but logical too. Why not remove the siblings from every parent with a missing child? Anyone can be named a prime suspect it appears when a child goes missing? Remember the Eisenbergs in FL? and the disappearance of their daughter Sabrina? I think they LE tapped their phones.
 
An aside: I wonder if the McCanns cars and phones have been tapped?

[A's Fever]

I still wonder how much of this information is actually substantiated by the press - are these police leaks and if so, are they valid?  Sounds like they are working very hard to build a case in the press against the McCanns.

It really seems beyond comprehension that the McCanns could have concealed a body so well, being vacationers and not knowing the area really well.  And, since the body would be quite decomposed after 25 days, I guess this scenario suggests a burial and then moving the body??  What parent could do this?  It really defies comprehension. 

[bleachedblack]

I still wonder how much of this information is actually substantiated by the press - are these police leaks and if so, are they valid?  Sounds like they are working very hard to build a case in the press against the McCanns.

It really seems beyond comprehension that the McCanns could have concealed a body so well, being vacationers and not knowing the area really well.  And, since the body would be quite decomposed after 25 days, I guess this scenario suggests a burial and then moving the body??  What parent could do this?  It really defies comprehension. 

Good pointsAA's, and I agree with all of them.

[MuffyBee]

Rob wrote;

For those that do not think the British are deadly serious about taking the twins. I found this story last week and it's a real tear jerker.

Serious yes.......but logical too. Why not remove the siblings from every parent with a missing child? Anyone can be named a prime suspect it appears when a child goes missing? Remember the Eisenbergs in FL? and the disappearance of their daughter Sabrina? I think they LE tapped their phones.
 
An aside: I wonder if the McCanns cars and phones have been tapped?

A couple of posts up I posted this:
   
   
Re: British girl, Madeleine McCann, 4 in Portugal
« Reply #463 on: Today at 03:33:50 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/mccanns+phone+line+tapped/786152
McCanns' phone line tapped

[bleachedblack]

Thank-you MB.

[Rob]

imo - Sousa is the Dompig of this case.

I'm very skeptical of his action and possible motives.

[BlueKYGirl]

And, since the body would be quite decomposed after 25 days, I guess this scenario suggests a burial and then moving the body??  What parent could do this?  It really defies comprehension. 

I agree. Secretly burying her in the first place is bad enough, but moving her remains after 25 days in the Portugese heat would be truly macabre and not something most people--much less Madeleine's own parents--would have the stomach for.

Aside from the fact that they were tourists and didn't know the area that well, I cannot imagine a parent disposing of his or her child's remains in this way for the more obvious reasons that your child's body is not something you hide in a hole. The McCanns are devout Catholics; I would expect they'd want a Catholic burial for their daughter.

Do we know the consequences for an accidental death of a child by a parent under Portuguese or British law? If the McCanns did sedate Madeleine to the point where she died, and they'd called an ambulance right then and admitted what they'd done, what would the penalties be? And would the prospect of avoiding those penalties outweigh their desire to give her a proper burial and not have to hide the tragic turn of events? I suppose it could have been a split-second decision after which there was no going back. They are both doctors, so I guess if there'd been a problem with the sedatives, they would have known what to do, and they also would have known if the situation was beyond hope.

Was this a case where they could see their careers and family life being destroyed before their eyes if they called the authorities? Maybe they made a quick decision that, even though Madeleine's life was lost, they didn't want their lives and the lives of the twins to be ruined, too.

I'm just speculating here. I guess speculation depends on what the penalties are when a parent admits to an accidental death of a child. (But how would they have had any way of knowing that before disposing of her?) They seem like the kind of parents who would do the right thing and come clean, instead of launching a worldwide manhunt.

I just do not know what to think of this case. It's bizarre.

[Rob]

BKYG- I believe that 2 doctors would face no charges in an accidental death of one of their children. A medical degree goes a long way and it would be ruled an accident... exactly what they claim now.

Now what I would really like to know is why were the police 'claiming' in the initial stages of the investigation - they were looking at the localpedophile ring?

First of all -  how do they know there is a LOCAL RING unless they have had dealings with them, and why was this their first line of thought?

Second - did they actually investigate this ring?

Third - what were the results of those investigations?

All of these points will certainly be brought up during a trial, should it occur.

The first story is usually the correct one - imo..

[mbs]

Here is an interesting article discussing the problems with the accusations against the McCanns. The whole thing just seems so unlikely:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/07/nmaddy807.xml

snipped from the article"
"Most implausible of all, perhaps, is the suggestion that Mrs McCann returned to the place where she had hidden the body a month later, put it in the boot of her hire car and driven somewhere to dispose of the body."

[vms]

Latest Update - Gerry's Blog/Diary 

Day 130 - 10/09/2007

The last few days have been incredibly busy and of course, unbelievably stressful and emotionally draining.

On Friday Kate and I were made ‘arguido’- official suspects in Madeleines disappearance. We cannot comment on any details of the investigation, interviews or any evidence that has been presented to us. We could never possibly have imagined being put in this unbearable situation. No specific charges have been presented at this point and there has been no restriction on our movements imposed.

Despite the anguish and extreme distress this has caused all of our family, long term no one will be able to doubt how intensely Kate and I have been scrutinised. We have absolute confidence that, when all of the facts are presented together, we will be able to demonstrate that we played absolutely no part in Madeleines abduction. Our primary concern has always been the search for Madeleine and this aspect, that our daughter is still missing, must remain a priority for the investigation.

On Saturday we asked the Portuguese police if they had any objection to us coming back to the UK. We had assured them that we will continue to cooperate fully with the investigation and of course will return as requested and for our own emotional reasons. We decided to fly back on Sunday as we had originally planned and all of our family spent the rest of the evening helping us to pack.

On Sunday we left for the airport at 7am with huge media attention. Camera crews followed us all the way to the airport, and the whole experience, like much of the last four months was incredibly surreal. The flight itself went quickly with Sean and Amelie constantly active and excited about returning to Leicestershire. We always hoped that we would not have to return without Madeleine and could never have imagined the possibility that we would do so as suspects in our own daughters disappearance. The pain and turmoil we have experienced in this last week is totally beyond description. Kate and I are totally 100% confident in each others innocence and our family and friends have rallied round unflinchingly to support us. We would like to thank everyone else for the support we have received since we came home.

We have had very mixed emotions since coming back to our own home. It is very comforting to have such familiar surroundings and our own belongings and the twins have settled straight back in as if they have never been away. We have had numerous visitors with friends and those in official capacities. We have appointed solicitors to advise us and assist our Portuguese lawyer in preparing our defence against any possible charges. The sooner this is done the sooner we can concentrate fully on trying to find Madeleine, which is the most important thing through this unending nightmare.

 
 

[Tamikosmom]

Madeleine McCann DNA accurate match
By Gordon Rayner, Caroline Gammell and Nick Britten
Last Updated: 10:10pm BST 10/09/2007

DNA samples that are a "100 per cent match" to Madeleine McCann have been found in her parents' hire car and holiday apartment, it has been claimed.

Sources close to the case said the traces - understood to be blood - were being treated by Portuguese detectives as strong evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment before her body was placed in the car.

Police in the Algarve apparently now believe they have enough evidence to charge her parents, Kate and Gerry, with "accidentally" killing the four-year-old and hiding her body. A file on the case will today be sent to a prosecutor who could order the couple to return to Portugal to face charges this week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/10/wmaddy111.xml

[SunnyinTX]

I still wonder how much of this information is actually substantiated by the press - are these police leaks and if so, are they valid?  Sounds like they are working very hard to build a case in the press against the McCanns.

It really seems beyond comprehension that the McCanns could have concealed a body so well, being vacationers and not knowing the area really well.  And, since the body would be quite decomposed after 25 days, I guess this scenario suggests a burial and then moving the body??  What parent could do this?  It really defies comprehension. 

I am in total agreement with you...all these leaks...ummmmmm sounds like a lot of crap to me....as far as taking away their other children....that's crazy!  This entire mess is just that a mess.....I am going to stay with them being innocent until PROVEN guilty!

[vms]

Madeleine McCann DNA accurate match
By Gordon Rayner, Caroline Gammell and Nick Britten
Last Updated: 10:10pm BST 10/09/2007

DNA samples that are a "100 per cent match" to Madeleine McCann have been found in her parents' hire car and holiday apartment, it has been claimed.

Sources close to the case said the traces - understood to be blood - were being treated by Portuguese detectives as strong evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment before her body was placed in the car.

Police in the Algarve apparently now believe they have enough evidence to charge her parents, Kate and Gerry, with "accidentally" killing the four-year-old and hiding her body. A file on the case will today be sent to a prosecutor who could order the couple to return to Portugal to face charges this week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/10/wmaddy111.xml

I've never seen a DNA match referred to as 100%. 

[SunnyinTX]

Latest Update - Gerry's Blog/Diary 

Day 130 - 10/09/2007

The last few days have been incredibly busy and of course, unbelievably stressful and emotionally draining.

On Friday Kate and I were made ‘arguido’- official suspects in Madeleines disappearance. We cannot comment on any details of the investigation, interviews or any evidence that has been presented to us. We could never possibly have imagined being put in this unbearable situation. No specific charges have been presented at this point and there has been no restriction on our movements imposed.

Despite the anguish and extreme distress this has caused all of our family, long term no one will be able to doubt how intensely Kate and I have been scrutinised. We have absolute confidence that, when all of the facts are presented together, we will be able to demonstrate that we played absolutely no part in Madeleines abduction. Our primary concern has always been the search for Madeleine and this aspect, that our daughter is still missing, must remain a priority for the investigation.

On Saturday we asked the Portuguese police if they had any objection to us coming back to the UK. We had assured them that we will continue to cooperate fully with the investigation and of course will return as requested and for our own emotional reasons. We decided to fly back on Sunday as we had originally planned and all of our family spent the rest of the evening helping us to pack.

On Sunday we left for the airport at 7am with huge media attention. Camera crews followed us all the way to the airport, and the whole experience, like much of the last four months was incredibly surreal. The flight itself went quickly with Sean and Amelie constantly active and excited about returning to Leicestershire. We always hoped that we would not have to return without Madeleine and could never have imagined the possibility that we would do so as suspects in our own daughters disappearance. The pain and turmoil we have experienced in this last week is totally beyond description. Kate and I are totally 100% confident in each others innocence and our family and friends have rallied round unflinchingly to support us. We would like to thank everyone else for the support we have received since we came home.

We have had very mixed emotions since coming back to our own home. It is very comforting to have such familiar surroundings and our own belongings and the twins have settled straight back in as if they have never been away. We have had numerous visitors with friends and those in official capacities. We have appointed solicitors to advise us and assist our Portuguese lawyer in preparing our defence against any possible charges. The sooner this is done the sooner we can concentrate fully on trying to find Madeleine, which is the most important thing through this unending nightmare.

thanks for posting this...would you post a link to his blog?

[vms]

Latest Update - Gerry's Blog/Diary 

Day 130 - 10/09/2007

The last few days have been incredibly busy and of course, unbelievably stressful and emotionally draining.

On Friday Kate and I were made ‘arguido’- official suspects in Madeleines disappearance. We cannot comment on any details of the investigation, interviews or any evidence that has been presented to us. We could never possibly have imagined being put in this unbearable situation. No specific charges have been presented at this point and there has been no restriction on our movements imposed.

Despite the anguish and extreme distress this has caused all of our family, long term no one will be able to doubt how intensely Kate and I have been scrutinised. We have absolute confidence that, when all of the facts are presented together, we will be able to demonstrate that we played absolutely no part in Madeleines abduction. Our primary concern has always been the search for Madeleine and this aspect, that our daughter is still missing, must remain a priority for the investigation.

On Saturday we asked the Portuguese police if they had any objection to us coming back to the UK. We had assured them that we will continue to cooperate fully with the investigation and of course will return as requested and for our own emotional reasons. We decided to fly back on Sunday as we had originally planned and all of our family spent the rest of the evening helping us to pack.

On Sunday we left for the airport at 7am with huge media attention. Camera crews followed us all the way to the airport, and the whole experience, like much of the last four months was incredibly surreal. The flight itself went quickly with Sean and Amelie constantly active and excited about returning to Leicestershire. We always hoped that we would not have to return without Madeleine and could never have imagined the possibility that we would do so as suspects in our own daughters disappearance. The pain and turmoil we have experienced in this last week is totally beyond description. Kate and I are totally 100% confident in each others innocence and our family and friends have rallied round unflinchingly to support us. We would like to thank everyone else for the support we have received since we came home.

We have had very mixed emotions since coming back to our own home. It is very comforting to have such familiar surroundings and our own belongings and the twins have settled straight back in as if they have never been away. We have had numerous visitors with friends and those in official capacities. We have appointed solicitors to advise us and assist our Portuguese lawyer in preparing our defence against any possible charges. The sooner this is done the sooner we can concentrate fully on trying to find Madeleine, which is the most important thing through this unending nightmare.

thanks for posting this...would you post a link to his blog?

Sure.

http://www.findmadeleine.com/