Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29 - 11/30/2007

[klaasend]

I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get 

Hi Getagrip - I agree, Joran and Deepak

[Scandi]

Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

Very interesting Crazybabyborg, 

I just wonder if they really took her out into the ocean that night.  I remember Dompig on American TV saying a boat was known to have gone out the following night after she went missing, from the input {which is not far from the spot where Dave found the wooden cross by the beach}.

The Holloways came to town 2 days after she went missing and arrived around 3 - 4am as I remember.  If Joran and Deepak took off around say midnight and with the boat skipper friend loaded the cage {which had been stolen the night before along with a knife and ROPE} with Natalee inside and took her out, they would be back in an hour or so I would think if they did go 3 miles out which is out of the bay and into the ocean.

Remember Beth commented that Deepak and Joran didn't look dressed to be out in a bar?  That fits for me, as when they got back from dropping her, they went to the casino which is where Papa Sloot got ahold of Joran to get home as the Holloways were there.

Just thinking, but things do seem to fit using this scenario together with yours.  xox

[Getagrip]

Yet, if indeed the lobster trap was used...wasn't it at the fishermen's huts area? They may not have left the beach. I'm not sure that they would have taken her to the VDS home if Joran sneaked out that night. I don't discount that they may have taken her elsewhere.

It's just so hard to pinpoint what's a fact and what's not...the car washing, the gardener, etc. It's very difficult to establish a timeline when one or more of these facts may not be a fact at all.

[2NJSons_Mom]

From Greta's blog:

November 29th, 2007 1:11 PM Eastern
Another Email From OTR Producer in Aruba
by Greta Van Susteren
 OTR Producer Tim Silfies just sent me this email…..he is outside the courthouse in Aruba.

From: Silfies, Tim
To: Van Susteren, Greta; Tarrant, Angela
Sent: Thu Nov 29 12:13:26 2007
Subject: Aruba

Joran’s motion is over. Hans left without speaking. Joran’s lawyer spoke on his way to the car. Said “they have nothing…..Joran was questioned as recently as last night”. A Dutch reporter told us that in Dutch, the lawyer said that the new evidence is “based mostly on a mistranslation between Dutch and Papiamento”

DON’T FORGET: a ship is headed to Aruba from the USA with high tech research equipment.  Last night we did a segment on this new search effort…and we are monitoring the search effort.  Watch ON THE RECORD for all the latest.  The searchers seem to think that with the sophistication of this equipment, they could find very important clues.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/



REMINDER:  Don't be fooled by defense attorneys 

Well, mistranlations between Dutch & Papiamento is no surprise, here.  How many times have we said that? 

[igsigs]

Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO

[San]

I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get 

Yes the main perps are Joran and Deepak.  Satish knows what happened because he witnessed it.  From his statement "How is the girl".  He would not know to ask unless he saw something.

At some point this case would have to be closed.  What better way to do it then to have a prosecutor who is also a media expert.  If they would have just closed this case everyone would be up in arms.  So now they are making it look like they are truly doing an investigation and their final decision will be there is not enough evidence to charge them with the murder.

For a prosecutor to come out and say we know she is dead he better have overwhelming evidence (like a confession) because if not they will be released.

I'm still watching this carefully.

[BUCKSHOT]

Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

Very interesting Crazybabyborg, 

I just wonder if they really took her out into the ocean that night.  I remember Dompig on American TV saying a boat was known to have gone out the following night after she went missing, from the input {which is not far from the spot where Dave found the wooden cross by the beach}.

The Holloways came to town 2 days after she went missing and arrived around 3 - 4am as I remember.  If Joran and Deepak took off around say midnight and with the boat skipper friend loaded the cage {which had been stolen the night before along with a knife and ROPE} with Natalee inside and took her out, they would be back in an hour or so I would think if they did go 3 miles out which is out of the bay and into the ocean.

Remember Beth commented that Deepak and Joran didn't look dressed to be out in a bar?  That fits for me, as when they got back from dropping her, they went to the casino which is where Papa Sloot got ahold of Joran to get home as the Holloways were there.

Just thinking, but things do seem to fit using this scenario together with yours.  xox

another thought... they did not necessarily have to make final disposal that night. from leaving c&c's, they had 24 hours and another dark night to work with (the next night, just prior to group's arrival) temporary burial could very well have been used until next evening.  that night could have been used for alibis and incriminating evidence gathering (into bag for raquet club drop-off). IIRC, boat ride with koen took place the next evening - is this correct?
asking someone, not directly involved, would take more than a 3am call. may take a sit down meeting to convince a good friend to get involved with such a crime.

contradictory to my previous paragraph - why was paulus' atm card used in the middle of the night if i am supposing final burial took place the next night.

i, too, can spin my head in circles with theories - some contradictory of the previous.

[Scandi]

I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get 

Hi Getagrip,  There are 2 things I remember, first that Satish and Joran were friends originally and second that the gardener did not recognize Deepak in the car.  He saw Joran in the drivers seat and Satish I think in the passenger sear, and couldn't recognize the guy in the back seat {I could be wrong about that last part about where Satish was sitting}.  Now this is from reading links back in 2005, so who knows if it is true or not ;}

[Getagrip]

Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO

I knew I could count on you to make me feel better 

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.

[NYC_lover]

http://metropoint.metro.lu/20071129_Amsterdam.pdf


I'll see if I can translate this.  Looks like Peter de Vries is talking about the recent arrests.  I know he re-aired his show last night I think.

RETRANSMISSION PETER R. REPEATED OF OF THE DITCH

SBS6 the reportage repeats that peter R. de Vries a year ago for its crime programme made concerning Joran of of the ditch on 2 December. According to de Vries is with the recent arrest of the boy need for duiding in the matter.

For the reportage de Vries in 2006 research, on Aruba. With people concerned confidential discussions were conducted, which produced revealing insights concerning the disappearance of the American Natalee Holloway.

Peter R. de Vries: "In the media show of the previous days it is too much speculated people who see through no knowledge of matter. Our report from a year ago stands and is dead straight intact


In other words - de Vries stands behind his show and the research he did a year ago.

PS - to our Dutch posters...I know "ditch" is Sloot.  I like leaving it as "ditch", lol 

Very great Klaasend!!    
And yes indeed, in another words - Peter stands behind his show and the research he did a year ago.

[klaasend]

Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO

I knew I could count on you to make me feel better 

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.

There were no exams that day.  The exams didn't start until the following week.

[Frank]

refresh my memory, what did his research find?

[igsigs]

Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO

I knew I could count on you to make me feel better 

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.

It's been downgraded to a practice test (book). Whether he was awake or not while taking it is unknown.

[Nut44x4]

Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?

I don't think she was moved to the ocean until the next night which would be the night Beth arrived on the island and went to the Sloot home and Paulus was very sweaty...again.

[Getagrip]

There were no exams that day.  The exams didn't start until the following week.

Thanks, that gives me one more reason to be confident in discounting anything they say

I did like how JT (nice man-necklace) had to backtrack and say there were bugged conversations in the 'new evidence'. It may very well be that only 5 - 10% of the evidence is new, but that 5 - 10% may just be incriminating enough to close the deal *crosses fingers*

[Nut44x4]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

Lmao Klaas...crack me up.

[klaasend]

[BUCKSHOT]

Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?

I don't think she was moved to the ocean until the next night which would be the night Beth arrived on the island and went to the Sloot home and Paulus was very sweaty...again.

nut - are you saying the next day from her(NH) expiration or two days from her(NH)?? expiration.

[Getagrip]

It's been downgraded to a practice test (book). Whether he was awake or not while taking it is unknown.

[igsigs]

refresh my memory, what did his research find?

I could never find out what DeVries' conclusion was - not for lack of trying.