Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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enjoy!

Thanx for such a great job you admins are doing with the forums. We all appreciate your efforts.


GuyWdog

So there does have to be a progression in reason for detainment?

It's getting better...and we hope to have new stuff on the way.  also, I saw a question abou the Monkey Junkey tags:  we're working with Ranking where you get a new tag for a specified minimum # of posts.  :) some folks who have 500 or more posts already have them....

Thank you admin for all your hard work. It is much appreciated.

Last night, there was a discussion about dark the beach was during the Greta walk through. I haven't seen it, don't have Fox here.

I'm posting a link to the actual weather conditions for 5/29:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/TNCA/2005/5/29/DailyHistory.html

At the very bottom it says that the moon was 59% illuminated.

One thought. When you are filming with lights, the area beyond seems much darker. Also, ones eyes adjust. There may have been enough moonlight and starlight reflected off the water for it to be reasonably bright.

I thought that too...but a pretty girl might bring more pressure to bear....and all the lawsuits involved insurance scams as well and Jug is involved in insurance...

Like I said...just a thought..it would explain the FBI being involved so quickly...and if Van Der Sloot was on the take and was pressured into helping in the kidnapping he would definitely not talk knowing what could be done to his wife and other children...

also could explain some of the lack of information leaks to press and the comments from officials or press about the case being in a completely different direction from what it first appeared

yes indeed!

At the very bottom it says that the moon was 59% illuminated.

I lived in the Caribbean for 3 1/2 years and am a PADI scuba instructor.  We did night dives all the time (my favorite) as long as your eyes are adjusted to the lack of light, you can see dimly within about 25 ft most nights.

Yes coco that bothers me also, b/c why would she mention it? She must have a reason to do that why would they look into the passengers of that plain and there wereabouts anyway?

Am leaving because it's picture time

Bye.

Geraldo live on FOX:

"We are getting fragmentary information that some of the suspects may be released. .... This report is absolutely unconfirmed.  "

HUH? Anyone else listening to FOX.. did Geraldo just say the hearing is recessed for the day??????

unconfirmed - Geraldo's middle name...

I think he meant to say it's recessed temporarily, but I may be wrong....

Geraldo scares me...he doesn't know what end is up!  It's really worrisome when he refers to info that's unconfirmed!!!  Yikes.

Maybe they release paulus b/c it`s not established that he was one of the persons who saw natalee last.

kshe, the problem is that she is not obligated to testify whatever her son or husband told her. So there is no reason to pick her up


arubagirl - Thanks, I always forget that about Dutch law.  There might still be some light she could shed - along the lines of what someone else posted earlier.  

Did Joran do his own laundry on a regular basis, and if not, did he do it before you came back?  (Which would be unusual)

Who knows - just looking for something to help out, but thanks!

as usual Whoraldo and his musn't touch, was incorrect. He just retracted his " fragmented release" thing to say there is some kind of recess and dad, joran and the others seem to be going back from whince they came.

Thanks RB,,, I wasnt sure what I heard.. I wish I could wheel my tv in this computer room.. my cable dont reach that far.. and the tv is hard to hear well from here..Wahhh..lol

Thanks RB,,, I wasnt sure what I heard.. I wish I could wheel my tv in this computer room.. my cable dont reach that far.. and the tv is hard to hear well from here..Wahhh..lol

You need to be like me...wireless and on the deck :)  I'm only listening to what he's saying...

If I'm correct, the 116 day number adds up this way:

 2 days (48 hours)
 8 days
 8 days
 8 days
30 days
30 days
30 days
116 TOTAL

LOL   :D

ON RBN26:

spab wrote:
absolut wrote:
Steve got an email in the middle of the night from one of the brothers.



... must have been one helluva an email to wind up in jail over..  


What could it possibly have said?

S- be careful - J used roofie on tourist - something bad happened.  J's Dad says to stick together - DON'T talk to anyone! Call me right away - D

think you`re right cavaliere on that one


I was thinking If they recess for the day, maybe the judge has a jetlag
flying ALL the way from curacao to aruba....... :lol:

This is classic "Geraldo-speak"....

I hope Arubans know to lock their safes...you never know with this guy!

Speaking of Geraldo...where has "Geraldosgirlfriend" been?  She's one of my faves...haven't seen her in awhile.

David Kock made some interesting comments on CNN's site about timeline info

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/26/aruba.missing/index.html

surely they recess for lunch?

maybe she has been detained to put pressure on Geraldo to get out of Aruba.

I hope Arubans know to lock their safes...you never know with this guy!

There's precedent for that re: Al Capone :)

I have no idea...just know that you are correct with the 2 days and the 3 8 days...I thought the next was 60 days...

You would think with a case as mysterious as this one, that they would change that up a bit ....but, I guess if they find out that the suspect had nothing to do with the case, they can petition the court for their release before the 60 days is up...

From that site:
"Paul Van Der Sloot, who is relatively new to the bench, was arrested Thursday, while the other four have been in custody longer."

Wonder what bench they're talking about.

The one in his cell hehe j/k

interesting article gagirl


was just kidding mojo on the jetlag... :wink:

LOL...I was thinking the same thing..GET OUT OF MY HEAD!   :lol:

Yes we have a case like that. Altough I had to dig into the internet ;-)
Several years ago a 30 year old lady disappeared and her husband denied everything. No body was found but he was charged for murder. He had a false alibi. The police found blood in her husbands car, he sabotized the cell phone one day before she disappeared, he tried to escape to Thailand with a false passport with 50.000 dollar of cash money...

 :lol: well it is either that bench or the one outside the courtroom lol. I guess cnn didnt get the memo from geraldo that he didnt get the job as a judge after all  :lol:

Wonder what the specifics were that caused PVDS to be denied for judge?

*delurking and waiting for news*

Hello everyone :)

Has all this attention on Aruba led anyone to think of traveling to the Caribbean? I am now seriously thinking of a trip to the French Caribbean (Martinique, St-Barthélemy or Guadeloupe).

I dunno but what I have found a little more interesting is that Joran led people to believe his dad WAS a judge. It also seems PVDS led people to believe it as well when as it turns out wasnt exactly true. Maybe there is something to it? I mean in their ability to stretch the truth. I dunno just speculating here.

I thought I read somewhere its because he failed the test?

Greta asked dad if he was in fact a judge and he said yes.  So yeah they are liars.

Those records, Kock said, show Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. on the morning Holloway disappeared.

Natalee left CnC at 1.30 am, it takes 10-15 min to reach Marriott beach areas...that gives Joran about an hour to stroll with Nat, chat, argue, and and or maybe have fun, and either left her for death or walked her back towards the board walk.

In that call, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. About 40 minutes later, Kock said -- about the time it would take him to walk home -- Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe to tell him he had arrived.

That would be 3.40 now, which is about right for a 40 min walk.  Now the thing is ... is it all true? That would leave no time to Panic, getting Paulus involved, calling SGC, and picking up the body and disposing of it...need more info...because that leaves about 2 hours to start school at Aruba Internation School.

Hoi edwin,

Are you refering to that  from that Angelique an Paul case? With the boutiques?

ok, guys, i know i should not do hellos and goodbyes here..so to all moderators, my apologies..but i did not want to be rude to my fellow monkey friends and just log off..like anyone cares, right?  :)

Anyway, my 2 year old is presently naked and clothes might be a good idea..dishes are 2 days old, and i might need a shower..sometime...lol..

I hope the news gets a little more interesting..I personally hate weekends because there is no Greta..and Whorealdo is just not worth listening to IMHO...although i must say, it is entertaining to hear him screw everything up!!

Hope to see some great pics from Arubagirl later...

Hope to see Equuesearch turn up something...though, i do hope its not what we all fear....

Have a great afternoon, and I'll see all my monkeys later.....GREAT pic of the monkey on Greta site by the way...

I just read this on Fox.com: In an anecdote that illustrated the insular world of Aruba, Justice Minister Croes said Paul van der Sloot had recently visited him in his office after failing to become a judge, apparently seeking a position in Croes' department. Van der Sloot had also taught the justice minister's daughter.
So I'm assuming he didn't 'pass the bar' as in the US

He technically was a judge. He had been able to sit in on cases but not give decisions and had just completed a 1 year internship in the NL in March 2005. This was pretty clearly explained from one of the translated Dutch newspaper sources a day or so ago (It's getting to be a blur).

Dan's reporting;
12:50 Update: Fox reporting Joran and Deepak detention extended.

Since these kids are such big fans og G-Unit and 50 Cent, I think we need to send 50 down there to interrogate these guys.  He would probably scare the crap out of those kids.  Anybody have 50's phone number?

Last night the Justice Minister mentioned something about a letter from the Netherlands, so I thought there may have been another reason.  Maybe the letter was just confirming that he had failed the test.

Thanks for the link.

Those records, Kock said, show Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. on the morning Holloway disappeared. In that call, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. About 40 minutes later, Kock said -- about the time it would take him to walk home -- Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe to tell him he had arrived[/i]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/26/aruba.missing/index.html

I heard it stated that he failed the test (like I know exactly what that means).  I guess they take some kind of competency test on their knowledge and he didn' know enough!!!

I could really get nasty with "what bench" now daddy VDS is in jail, but after all it is Sunday!

]
Behind his house,,,,he must have failed his test!

according to riehl

Aruba Breaking

12:50 Update: Fox reporting Joran and Deepak detention extended. Geraldo claimed to have fragmentary reports some of those detained may be released - then he seemed confused suggesting his report meant 'released" from the court house to be returned to jail. As posted yesterday, I've heard unconfirmed rumbings from sources on the island that one, or possibly two of those detained will be released today.

Fox News is reporting that the hearing in Aruba is now over. Hopefully a statement as to the outcome will be coming soon. I'll update this post as appropriate.

Croes will be released tomorrow!

There has been reported of a woman missing of a cruise ship in the Caribbean, however I believe it's close to Mexico.

croes to be released tommmorow

Croes will be released

FOX News: SC to be released tomorrow ~ 1 pm

Steven Croes is being released tomorrowat 1 pm

Just out on Fox.  Steve Croes will be released tomorrow at 1:00 pm according to his lawyer.

He had previously worked for the JD, so this doesn't sound unusual. According to Arubagirl, Rudy Croes isn't even a lawyer. PVDS is.

FOX NEWS Alert:  Steve Croes to be released tomorrow at 1:00 according to his lawyer.

Croes to be released tommorow @ 1pm  FOX

Lawyer of Croes says he is to be released tomorrow.  fox

I think 50's phone # is 1-800-IMA-THUG

thanks Edwin, I thought I had read something like that, and that was the case.

Wonder why tomorrow?  Maybe they have intense interrogations that are going on today...hmmmmmmm.

One of the reasons I get addicted to breaking news stories is the chance to watch the process of the MSM - with all the discussion and debate here, we know much more than the media who are reporting and can see when they mess up the facts, etc. Helps to keep me mindful on the stories where I know nothing ....

And La Cavaliere - I am so missing the Carib right now - spend time in a small village in Jamaica and have been so "homesick" for it - all the views of the beach, etc really get to me. If you haven't been to one of the islands, go ... and go somewhere where you can stay outside of the All Inclusives so you really get the flavour - amazing! (and if anyone needs Jamaica tips, I'm happy to point them to the discussion groups with the best real JA info -just PM)

Yes, that one:
http://www.peterrdevries.nl/column/textcolumnpeter060.htm
http://www.peterrdevries.nl/column/textcolumnpeter027.htm

Well, we covered that didn't we!!

I would give you that number, but we aren't allowed to post personal phone numbers on here.....ha ha :lol:

I wonder if they'll put them all together again and see what falls out...

This might be what Joran told Deepak - it might not be what actually happened.

I hope Depak and Satish are released too.  My "gut" tells me they are innocent.

LOL   We sure did!

I won the fastest fingers contest! What's my prize?

My guess is that SC is not involved any further than perhaps selling drugs and/or receiving an email, or being party to a conversation with one or more of the detainees.  On that assumption, there was enough reasonable suspicion to detain him and interrogate him, but not to hold him much longer if they keep getting the same answers from him.

That particular quote is very suspicious, almost like a planned alibi.  How many guys call or text their friends to let them know they got home?

Remember when they announced a release dates for the S/G then they were released late night?

I wonder if steve is going to be able to tell anything about the case when he is released?

Guess with Steve's pending release we can assume he did not drive the Tattoo on night in question to dispose of a body or to take Natalee somewhere.

LOL  well if you were on who wants to be a millionaire.. youd be in the hot seat.. HA HA HA   But will a (((((HUG))) ) do?   :)

That's true, golden.  I'd forgotten about that.

If it were for selling drugs, I doubt they'd let him out....can you imagine Aruba dealing with that PR nightmare?

Getagrip...Razzy got banned...wah..I miss her.

So does this rule out the theory that Steve Croes dumped her body in the ocean?

Maybe someone cut a deal? Or spilled the beans?

I hope that Mr. Croes' family will be able to arrange safe conduct for him to an off-island undisclosed location for a while.

As several people have pointed out, there are US nationals currently in Aruba who might wish to do him harm.

Now that his mother has been on TV, and I believe an uncle, it would probably be better if they accompany him.

Pretty strong evidence against it.

Not fair, not fair.  You used less words!!!  (hahahahaha) :D

I agree!

By the way, are you from the Dallas area???

right, because we all know he has told several lies, ah made several adjustments to his story

So she's still on the island?

OK, I'll take the hug!

yep, and i'd agree with nancy about the drugs - he may have been the unlucky recipient of an email!

Poss scenario: Call made to D: Walking home on reg route, can I get a ride, D says sure and goes back to sleep. J walks all the way home and sends a text message:Thanks a lot for the ride, asshole.

Well I assume that other people could do that.

I wonder if some of these people that have made VERY desparging remarks about Steve Croes will come on the board and appologise publicly ???


GuyWdog

Yeah, but although selling drugs is illegal, it has little or anything to do with Natalee's disappearance. Assuming that he did sell some drug to one of the 3, he couldn't reasonably have known who/what they were going to use it on, or for.

In any case, if that's the reason, they'll try to gloss over that fact.


I know :( I put in a good word for her.

or dad tells him to text someone as cover?

Hmm FOX saying the only reason Croes was held because he got an email.. SO perhaps the email WW posted was legit?

No Im not.

I guess an sms is traceble an a phonecall also, so they can`t lie about that I think and kids sms all the time so that doesn`t sound strange to me if he did that

interesting ... Croes release .... so not drug dealer or they would have held him

and I thought the lawyer saying that they had investigated the cell phone and computers then giving a timeline for text messages was interesting - doubt lawyer would do that if it was just idle chatter?

by the way TazMan - the teens I know text about every second of their lives - it's like a running commentary  (hence ordering the unlimited text package from our cell provider) - it's like background music - they even text while chatting in person with someone else ... I'm always astonished at the speed of their thumbs and their multitasking capability - new stage of evolution!

I have a legal question if anyone can answer it.....
When Steve Croes is released will he be under the equalivant of a "gag order" or will he be able to talk to the media as the security guards?

-Angiex911dsptchr---  EXACTLY Good point, I'll bet the boards will key in on this as a Major discussion all day long....


GuyWdog

Yes, and they said the email was from Deepak "who owns an internet cafe."  

I didn't know he owned it.

I agree Hannie.. I dont think it being unusual for a kid..even a male to text message a buddy.. my son does it also.. but who knows! I guess they do have cellphone records.. and they can read the text messages perhaps.

we'll certainly know soon enough.

Yes, the text messaging thing it now it.  I don't get it and it to me is way too much trouble, but both my twenty something kids can type war and peace in thirty seconds.

I think that they said the text part as part of the fake alibi because they knew or thought the text couldnt be traced.  The key would be to see if there is a record of this text message.  Why not just call?  Why call then text?  Just scream bogus to me in alot of ways.

Hannie, Angie you're both right. SMS and text messaging are all retained by most carriers - and even if you delete an SMS message on your cell, it's retained in memory even if you (as the ownder of the phone) can't get to it.

Is it possible that LE is going to systematically release everyone except the two VDS to add more pressure?

The Wonder Woman phantom faux email....Uhhhhhhhhh
Nevermind...

Note to self;

If ever I commit a crime, I will email or text all my enemies a suspicious email sort of like "thanks for your help and keep your trap closed, you are involved now you know"

I leave to put a bday cake in the oven and come back to someone being released. Sheesh see I miss everything.
I wonder how many cameras will be outside waiting to see if he makes a statement?

Thats a GREAT idea!

Yes I heard the reporter say he owned it also??  Thats the first I heard that!! Maybe she messed up??

Yes, I am wondering that, as well.  I am also wondering if he will be called as a "witness" to testify if this case goes to trial.  Anyone know how that would work under Dutch/Aruban law?

Or, if you ever commit a crime under Dutch law, make sure it's a family deal...cuz' ALL  of the family members are protected from tesitfying against the others.....amazing.

Or, if you ever commit a crime under Dutch law, make sure it's a family deal...cuz' ALL of the family members are protected from tesitfying against the others.....amazing.

Isn't it kind of like that here in the States?  Or have I been watching too much TV..

You cant be compelled to testify against spouse in the states.


*edited for spelling blah

So ... do cell phones in Aruba have location tracking?

am I remembering that that has been added here in the states or am I confused?

and do you think my client tomorrow till buy "gee the report is not complete but I went over 200 messages on SM?"

In the USA it's only a marital privilege.

Gotta beleive this call and sms happened. These are verifiable facts.

Maybe he texted instead of calling the second time because of the lateness. Maybe D had his phone turned off. It could be sinister, or setting up an alibi, or completely innocent

wait a minute - he has a boss that was interviewed...how can he have a boss if he's the owner?

 RB.. I think its like that in the states as well.. We learned about that in 911 training..
  I even couldnt obtain an attorney thay my hubby used before.. and for a whole other matter.. Conflict of interest!

Just don't post that message here on SM!

I saw that interview also, and if I remember correctly his boss is a women.  So that would make her the owner.

I think the only American national that Mr. Croe or his family needs to be concerned about is that demented Jug Twitty.

I can only think of how this poor guy has had his life almost ruined by all this mess. GUILTY by ASSOCIATION, it's terrible. Some of the things that I have seen on here being posted about this Croes guys just makes me sick. What if it was you rather than him? he lost his name, reputation, income, and now will forever be associated with this issue. This is ONLY the beginning, many other's Lives will be tarnished because of this. All I can think is that Poor Kalpoe's mother and her grief, there are so many innocnet victims on both sides. There's too much Sensational discussion on here and not enough reasonable theorization. I guess the reason being is that little if any information has come out.


GuyWdog...wondering if any of you will now apologise for the stuff you wrote about Croes?

One thing I'm confused about regarding the CNN report...

Yesterday, Geraldo reported that he was told that Joran called Deepak from his cell phone at (forget the exact time) 2:30 am for a lift, and that he texted him 45 minutes later to let him to tell him that he had already found a lift back home. I forget whether his source was Kock or Oomen (the other Kalpoe's lawyer).

Hmmm...I know it was Geraldo and he gets at least 50% of his reporting wrong...and I can't find anything about it on the FOX web site.

nancy and mom both said that it's only extended to spouse, so apparently that means sons and daughters, cousins and uncles can all testify here in the States.  I'm to infer that in the Dutch system no one from the family can testify against another, or are there constraints on that?

according to CNN International - yeah, we get different news from you all

Croes is being released for lack of evidence... :shock:

I don`t  think there is a 'gag order' in the dutch law that prevents realeased people from talking to the press or something

Well, on a positive note we can infer they *do* have evidence against the others?

I wonder if there are libel laws or slander laws in aruba?

I dont know if anyone has verified that text messaging is traceable in aruba, but anyway, I dont question the text message as much as I question the idea of a guy letting a guy know he got home ok.  If it was a girl yea, but a guy?

Fox is reporting they are still in court.  Is that true, I think they will let the dad go also.

Perhaps his boss is a reasonable person and will let him continue his work on the TATOO... JMO

Yes!!  and with just their thumbs!! :roll:

I agree!

Pretty average behavior to text when you have a quick messages that doesn't require a discussion...like you've arrived home, forget the ride.  .  Asking for a ride, may require a discussion, hence the call.  Behavior seems perfectly normal and works with their alibi.

In Dutch law, when a person is being held and interrogated and its before a trial begins  that you are not required by law to say a anything but when you go to trial you are required to answer questions?  Is this true?

if they continue to hold them, we can...i can't see them letting the 3 go, though and i also suspect PVDS will be held for good measure unless this thing about his arrest being conducted properly holds any water.

I feel a BOOK DEAL Arounf the Corner......
Seriously, I feel for those innocent,  but wrongly accussed.

I saw the same 2 discrepancies, everywhere from he got a lift, he walked home, and he never texted them at all.    Wonder which story is correct today.

They seem to be holding alot of innocent people that makes me think that the others could be innocent also.

I am thinking that Deepak's phone was off, so Joran left a voice message asking him to give him a ride home. Then, when he arrived home, he text messages to say forget it... I walked.

Otherwise, why wouldn't Deepak have picked him up?

That's exactly what was reported on Fox...that the judge said there wasn't enough evidence to continue to detain Croes.  

This, in no way, suggests that there's no culpability by Croes; just insufficient evidence based on the increased burden of proof in the Aruban system to keep him locked up any longer.

Why not? If you don`t want the friend to wake up from a phonecall again it sounds good to me that you sms then. The phonecall I can imagen b/c he just saw him if deepak brought them to the beach, and then the walk home "I left her on the beach" are you still in the neighboorhood to pick me up? Deepak maybe says no I`m already at home. So joran walks home and then give him a text message that he arrived think nothing strange about consider the time!

Jug took the time out to send a shout out to one of his idols (Neal Bortz) on Hannity & Colmes the other night. What an asp.

Glad I wasn't imagining things or hallucinating about last night's discussion. I don't know which account is correct - CNN is the one who first erroneously reported the 'confession' and ran it all night without confirmation.

Why do I have monkey junkie under my name?

You better stop listening to those voices. :wink:

Maybe Deepak was tired of being Jorans Taxi? Or sleeping? What time did Nadira Ramirez say she checked the doors and they were locked, so she knew her boys were home?

I wonder if some of the resentment about the american pressure will encourage his boss to let him keep his job or if he'd be seen as a liability on a tourist boat (or an asset?)

plus most folks in the world won't have followed this as obsessively as us

still, the things said about him have been awful and so totally unfounded since there's never been any info on him ...

The others I think will be held just to keep Jug et al happy no matter what the evidence.

Right, his release doesn't mean he absolutely was not involved.  I am not saying I think he was involved; heck, I don't know what I believe at this point.  I'm just saying I agree with what Scott just posted, that this in no way exonerates Croes. :)

I know!!! :lol:

I read that after you make 500 posts that happens! lol

I originally posted what I had researched, that it extends to parent/child.  However, there was another post from someone who said it extends beyond marital and parent/child.  It looked like they posted the exact law...however, Aruban law is a little different than Dutch law.

You are protected from what you hear as a parent or child,  BUT you are not protected from what you may have seen.

You never know what VDS or the brothers may have said in jail implicating Croes. After all they lied about the original 2 security guards implicating them.

I hardly doubt that Aruban authorities were reading SM comments and arrested them. We are good not that good. I do understand your point though.

From what I have further heard there was a greater burden of proof to keep him. I think it will be interesting if he talks to the media or not after he is released.

It also is kind of different that he is just not released now. Unless this is common in Aruba, or maybe because this was a special Sunday court hearing and normal paperwork needs to be done during a work week.

Scott, is there an increased burden of proof with each hearing?

I dont find it odd either. When I worked at a bar in VA the kids who hostessed text messaged each other in the same building. Also, say Deepak used AIM or MSN or something like that. You can be online and get text messages from friends on their cell phones. I message my friend all the time when hes at work via Yahoo.

Jug needs to just look after his wife.  That cowboy act does not play everywhere or with everybody.

Jug took the time out to send a shout out to one of his idols (Neal Bortz) on Hannity & Colmes the other night. What an asp.

But this makes more sense to me for I kept wondering if he called Deepak to come get him for a ride home then 40 mins later text messages him nevermind, that would mean Deepak ignored J's first request for a ride home.  If Deepak was still home 40 minutes later or had not arrived to give Joren a lift, did it mean he refused or was taking so long to get there?  Never did understand this part of timeline.  But it is very odd that he would text message only to say he got home.  

Something a bit off on that but cannot put my finger on it.  :?:

From Hasibokos, via Rhiel World View (http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/):
"Natalee Holloway: Additional Information

Hasibokus is a Dutch blog co-operating with RWV in the reporting around the Natalee Holloway disappearance. In this post, they have translated a Dutch news report, adding some additional information for those interested in learning more as regards certain facets of the case. This article in english is worth the read.

    De Telegraaf reports that the authorities have done some investigating and this has lead them to believe that PvdS gave instructions to the 3 boys and told them what version of the story they have to give to the authorities and what they shouldn’t tell. This has also been reported by the respected Dutch news program, NOVA, on Saturday. "

I'm not sure of the technical threshold required in Aruban law, but it was made clear that there was a greater burden of proof required upon the prosecution to continue to detain Steve Croes, than upon PVDS, due to the length of detention he had already served.

I'm sure the hard drives revealed evidence of communications long before SM or anyone else speculated about him.

That's why I think Joran's first call to Deepak went to voice mail. If Deepak had said "No, I can't pick you up now," I doubt Joran would have text messaged him 40 minutes later.

Fox News reporting on a monkey attack, fellow scared monkeys....

I just heard that too..lol   YIKES!!  :wink:

Just finished reading this too. Talk about valuable information!!!!!

From Hasibokos.com

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005

There's some interesting reporting on Hasibokos today:
http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005

Dutch sources - I believe they would be impartial, and probably closer to the truth than any other MSM.

Or Joran could've called for a ride & may have been told, "We're already in bed and home for the night.  Just send me a text message to let me know you made it home okay."

According to Joran’s friend at those times Joran would just pull himself back a spend time by himself and reflect

Might explain the comment by Mrs VDS regarding "yoga" during her interview with Greta.

Maybe they just said Steve will be released tomorrow at 1:00 but he'll really be released in the wee hours of the morning when hopefully, for his sake, not all of the MSM will be at the jail waiting to pounce on him like a bunch of hyenas!

I agree! Insightful and chilling.

More from Hasibokos' translation of De Telegraaf article:

Paul van der Sloot (PvdS)
According to the article , PvdS has been living 17 years in Aruba and the last tree years he has been a substitute judge-in-training at the justice department. The department was not impressed with PvdS’ performance trough the years and had already decided internally that he would not be able to continue to function as a judge-in-training. PvdS wasn’t allowed to the conduct court (hearings) anymore and the department has been seeking other internal assignments for him until they found a fitting position for him in the department. De Telegraaf reports that the authorities have done some investigating and this has lead them to believe  that PvdS gave instructions to the 3 boys and told them what version of the story they have to give to the authorities and what they shouldn’t tell. This has also been reported by the respected Dutch news program, NOVA, on Satruday. You can view NOVA's report here (in Dutch)

uh oh...wonder what Arubagirl did at that court house!!!   :lol:

Cast - I saw that too ... I get the impression that Jug loves Fox News and is emulating some of their "personalities" in his approach to the media. Guess I can't blame him given the horror he's dealing with but I sure don't like him.

I was looking yesterday for info on a study I had seen - can't find it anywhere - but someone did a study which talked about how they are now seeing witnesses and victim's of awful things (crime, fire, etc) respond in ways that pattern the tv coverage of these events - the sensationalizing of coverage of crime, etc has created an american cultural model of how we are supposed to act and people in that stress go on a kind of  autopilot to that model. It's one of the things that's interesting about BTH since we have not seen her do any of the "standard"  missing child mother speeches or such - (note to all - I am not criticizing her for this!) One of the things that makes her such good TV and therefore gets her so much coverage is that she is outside that model I think - which is a good thing for her search.

I think Jug sees himself as sorta the "star" of the coverage and is "playing" OReilly, et al ... again, not the standard model and certainly less likeable to some of us.

Unless the authorities have restricted his travel until further notice, I would lean to believe he'll be joining his mother back to Curacao on the first available flight.

Text messaging is popular here with young people, but my daughter spent last year studying in London AND she said that's all they do in Europe.  It's the most popular mode of communicating.

Thay's Explosive!

thanks Getagrip -  the original story which was subsequently pulled by AP but iquitos has a link to where it was published in aruba (somewhere) is close to what the authorities seem to believe according to Hasibokos translation -

What happened to Natalee?
According to the article, the detectives believe strongly that Natalee was taken to the light house located at the Northern part of Aruba by the 3 young suspects.  Once they were there it is believed that these suspects tried to engage in sexual activity with the Natalee, but she most likely refused and tried to fight them off. She was consequently murdered (during the struggle) and her body was then dumped somewhere on the island or in the sea.

Thats a great article that puts the blame on the original 3 suspects.

Perhaps that is because Beth knows that her her daughter is not "missing".

Isn't Fox the most popular of the three cable news stations? It is interesting that Fox is not seen in Aruba. Do they get CNN? At one time, there were some countries who were getting Fox but not CNN. Pakistan, for one, and I forget the others.

Per Fox..  reporting that Steve Croes has to be released tomorrow because thats when his 8 day incriment is up at 2 pm..

Ting, I live in Canada and we just recently got FOX News Channel (thankfully!), but have had CNN for quite a long time.

CNN is more international, and available in more countries than FOX. EDITED to add: FOX is the most watched in the US, but may not hold views that are 'popular' (sotoaspeak, as Mike would say) internationally, imo.

The important thing  is My  Baby    is coming Home :D

<<It also is kind of different that he is just not released now.>>


Maybe they don't want him telling his story until tomorrow for some good strategic reason.  

I'm really grasping for signs that Aruban LE has a real plan.

Thanks, Getagrip. What I meant was, isn't Fox the most popular with Americans?

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005

Article in De Telegraaf (Sunday) In a recent full-page article in De Telegraaf (biggest newspaper in The Netherlands), they dedicated attention to the Natelee Holloway’s disappearance and the suspected involvement of the Dutch judge-in-training Paul van der Sloot and his son Joran. The article covered mostly all the events since the disappearance of Natalee but there were also a few statements that were not (broadly/publicly) reported before.

What happened to Natalee?
According to the article, the detectives believe strongly that Natalee was taken to the light house located at the Northern part of Aruba by the 3 young suspects.  Once they were there it is believed that these suspects tried to engage in sexual activity with the Natalee, but she most likely refused and tried to fight them off. She was consequently murdered (during the struggle) and her body was then dumped somewhere on the island or in the sea.

I prefer Fox some people dont. Actually I dont wanna open a political debate here lol. So Ill leave it at that.

Yep...edited my post above :)

EDITED to add: FOX is the most watched in the US, but may not hold views that are 'popular' (sotoaspeak, as Mike would say) internationally, imo.

Fox is so USA-centric, I don't know how interesting it would be to people outside the US. In Mexico, it is available on the SKY sat system, along with CNN Intl, DW, TVE and a couple of others.

If this is true, then Joran's original "cover" story at school could've been about a girl (NH) drowning.  If he knew the body was dumped at sea, then he would expect it to surface at some point.  Hence, making up the drowning story to cover his butt.  After he started talking at school the next day, PVDS came to pick him up,  and this could be the point at which Joran was "coached. "   The other storied surfaced, and the drowning story was never mentioned again.

I prefer Fox. My Dad calls CNN "Communist News Network".  Ummm, not to start a political discourse either, that's another thread. But just sayin'....   :lol:

I would not say that.  It is my personal opinion that Fox is favored by AMericans who tend to have more conservative/Republican political view.

Paul van der Sloot (PvdS)

According to the article , PvdS has been living 17 years in Aruba and the last three years he has been a substitute judge-in-training at the justice department. The department was not impressed with PvdS’ performance through the years and had already decided internally that he would not be able to continue to function as a judge-in-training. PvdS wasn’t allowed to the conduct court (hearings) anymore and the department has been seeking other internal assignments for him until they found a fitting position for him in the department. De Telegraaf reports that the authorities have done some investigating and this has lead them to believe  that PvdS gave instructions to the 3 boys and told them what version of the story they have to give to the authorities and what they shouldn’t tell. This has also been reported by the respected Dutch news program, NOVA, on Saturday.


Perhaps someone in the Netherlands can answer this...

Does PVDS have a guaranteed lifetime contract?

What does it take for the Dutch government to terminate his employment?

Could anyone clarify the dating of the Haisi... link - it says on the page and in the url that it's a blog entry fromm 6/11/05?

and SandraK - care to say more re My Baby is coming home?

it would also explain his good friends' Satish and Deepak "covering" for him...they were there  :(

Thats very plausible. Ok so if he was planning to say she drowned. If they threw here simply there near the lighthouse, would the current there pull her body out by itself?

I would not say that. It is my personal opinion that Fox is favored by AMericans who tend to have more conservative/Republican political view

I watch Fox because of Shep Smith and Rick Leventhal.  What's that make me? :)

It was noted yeterday on this board that Beth has been on local Aruba TV doing the "standard" missing child mother speeches.

I think its safe to say anything that Joran (pronounced URINE) says is one big lie, especially concerning Natalie.  So we at least know she didnt drown.

I assume that because it is the most popular, it is interesting because it gives a more representative view of the culture.

Sorry, this should probably be in the media forum. :)

Of the cable news networks (Fox News, CNN, CNN Headline News, MSNBC, CNBC), Fox's ratings are generally equal to or greater than the other four channels combined.

You know Steve?

Sorry, this should probably be in the media forum.

It's ok, Ting. Since some of posters don't have Fox, we've been ok with Fox discussion here - they're covering the news more extensively than anybody else.

And Fox is known as Faux News.

We have no confirmed reports that Joran said anything at school beyond his mother saying that he was talking about the case and the headmaster talked to her to have him cut it out- Paulus then spoke to him


I'm sure he was talking about it and that everyone else was too but there's no report that he either bragged about having sex with her or that she drowned from a confirmable source.

It mostly just covers stories not interesting to non americans. For example, I haven't seen a single mention of this story in the Mexican media, there is probably stuff in some of the papers, especially tabloid syle ones like Alarma, but nothing at all on TV.

lol. I liked Fox before it was "popular". My mom calls CNN Communist News network too, I never understood the debate on this to be honest. I just like to people on Fox better then the ones on CNN or MSNBC.

I do not know where you get this information, but that is absolutely not true.

Please

I do not believe that Joran ever said Natalee drowned. He surely would have contacted police if this happened, or summoned someone for help.

Sandra K.. I sent you a PM a while ago.. and others have asked .. DO you know Steve??  You referred to him as "MY BABY".. Did you date him? Are you his mother??   We are curious!

They have definitely reported more on the Natalee story than the others, especially in the past week.

The last few days, though, even Fox seems to be devoting less time to it. I would say maybe because there have been fewer developments, but that has not stopped them in the past! ;)

edit to change more to less, distracted by shark attack report on Fox!

Interesting.

But why, then, would Natalee's family request the assistance of Texas Equusearch?

I agree that text messaging is just what kids do - heck, I'm 26 and I do it all of the time.  But, I do think it would be unusual for Joran to email Depak at 3:00?, 3:30? a.m. just to tell him that he was at home.  The only way that would make sense is if it was how another poster mentioned - "thought you were coming to pick me up?  Don't bother - i'm at home," type of scenario.

PvdS was appointed until 1 Jan 2006 as i recall...

I try not to label people.  It is just my humble opinion that the news on FOX tends to be presented from a more conservative perspective.  In no way am I trying to start a political debate...just stating my opinion, to which we are all entitled.

Personally, I only watch FOX for Greta and to see conservative perspective of the news so I have a better understanding of how "the other side" thinks.  I'll freely admit I am liberal, so I view the station, in general terms, as a conservatively-skewed station.  THAT IS JUST MY OPINION.  I prefer CNN because IT IS MY OPINION that they present news from a less politically biased perspective.  BUT I WENT OFF TOPIC HERE....sorry.   :oops:

EdwinW, can you clarify what you know about the testimony from family members?

the link is:

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005

I think that BHT is holding onto hope her daughter is alive. Anyone whose ever dealt with a missing child situation would be the first to tell you it is very difficult to believe anything else. I think they  brought in the search team to find her whether it be alive or passed on. The TX group is searching the water and ground. I dont think they expect by searching the water they are going to find her alive and swimming in the sea. JMO

I would say, they all have their upside and their downside, it just depends on how you feel about any given issue and how they present it.   That is one of the reasons that I hate "labels".   I don't think you can paint all Americans with the same broad brush, nor do I believe in painting any group of individuals with the same brush, no matter where they live.


{edit:  My Avatar.. it looked as though many of us were going for the "monkey" type.. so I picked my favorite singing group of the late 60, early 70's}

puggy, no harm done.  I was just saying that I watch because of those 2, that's all.  You're right IMO that it does lean toward the right, and always has.

Can you clarify the law?  It's been reported and written about as an extended privilege.  Can you give us the exact law used on Aruba?

Joran van der Sloot (JvdS)

Joran’s friend had mostly positive things to say about JvdS, but considereing the fact it’s only one source, we are in doubt now about the Joran’s temperament. This is because according to the article in De Telegraaf, Joran has been seing a psychiatrist for some time now because he is short-tempered. This does not match the previous statement of Joran’s friend who said that she never saw JvdS loose his composure on the tennis court. About Jorans reaction when he would loose a tennis match,  she said that Joran would be very disappointed as anyone would be, but he would never burst out and start screaming or show violent behaviour. According to Joran’s friend at those times Joran would just pull himself back a spend time by himself and reflect. Maybe Joran would never loose his temper in public and that why his friend never noted his short temperament. Or maybe he was just doing what his psychiatrist advised him to do in those situations.

Kind of like the disturbed, loose screw, Ron Artest, who, in a bizarre-like manner, went and laid down on the scorer's table as a fight he was involved in erupted.

Does anyone remember where the post is from yesterday about the family privilege?  Someone from the Netherlands or Aruba posted the law. I'm going to try and find it.

I know the school talk is rumor and conjecture, but there have been some rumors that have turned out to be true.  If it is true, then it would fit w./ the theory on hasibokos.  Also, he was obviously saying something about NH b/c it  prompted the headmaster and his parents to get involved.  Normally, headmasters/principals only get involved in more serious issues w/. the parents.  The trivial/day-to-day things are usually left up to the teachers to handle.

iiii

Didn't Mrs. Anita refer to that in her interview with Greta? When she was asked about the anger management thing, she said she "sent him there" if I remember correctly, and I can't remember the rest of her exact words but my impression was that the father was away, working, etc. a lot, and she had her hands full.

I found this by doing a google search of "steve croes" and "sandra"

http://www.bloggie.nl/archives/sandra_k_bekend.html

I think it was from yesterday afternoon or morning bc I saw it too and thats when I saw on. Hope it helps. Happy searching  :D

I Best keep  Quiet.
  He is a   Great guy .I always believed in him.
..Nuff said :D

Weird??  :D

I wouldn't know because I don't track media ratings.  I am just going by my own humble "news junky" American status.  From the people I know and interact with regularly where I live in Northern VA, outside the seat of the federal gov't, FOX and MSNBC are viewed as more sensationalistic and at opposite ends of the political spectrum, although each carries a show or two more appealing to the opposite end of the spectrum - for example, conservative Scarborough & Tucker on MSNBC.  CNN tends to offer more international news stories, just in my opinion.  Again, we are straying OFF TOPIC.  But I would not say that Fox is more popular than MSNBC and CNN.  I wouldn't mind a link to the media rankings where you found that info.  Not to start anything, just curious.   :) Feel free to PM me.  I respect your posts and your point of view.  :)

The attorney from aruba explained it as you can testify what you saw regarding a crime involving a family member, but you cant testify about anything they told you.   Something to that affect.

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005

The stories on this page appear to be from yesterdays De Telegraaf.

http://telegraaf-i.telegraaf.nl/daily/2005/6/25/TE/TE_2S_20050625_5/pagina.php

If that is correct what you write, then it is different from the Dutch law.
(there are some differences between the law of Aruba and The Netherlands). I'll try to find an article on that.

I am a news junky and I totally agree with you.

CarolinaGirl - agreed that some rumors are true - just being careful that I remember what's reported at what level of "fact" basis -esp as we see Steve Croes released - look what's been said about him as "rumor"

Haisibo... link - sorry I was not clear - I was simply asking about the date of that report - it looks like it was posted on 6/11/05 and so might reflect solely the "stories" of what happened circulating at that time (lighthouse reference) rather than be the latest thinking of the investigators.

and I am carefully avoiding the Fox News discussions but NancyDrew knows how I feel ... she and I are going into Fox Rehab when this is over!

I think someone on Natalee's father's side of the family arranged the Equusearch.  Her father and step-mother were on FOX saying at this point, they're not sure N is alive.  Her mother, BHT, and stepfather, Jug, are holding out hope she was kidnapped and still alive.

Thanks Scott.. I checked it out.. but of course cant read a word! I sent her a PM.. no reply as of yet.. and now since she used the "MY BABY" term and others asked about it.. shes disapearred!!

Yes I took it to mean that say Joran went home and said Dad I need to confide something in you. That his father could not be made to testify in what Joran may have confided. However if he witnessed it with his own eyes he would have to. It was sorta confusing.

 

 Ok.. thats respectable.. I guess you answered all of our questions with that answer!!

LMAO..trust me...That is NOT me..LOL..LOL

Joran had to be pretty determined and persistant in his persuit of Natalee if all of the reports of him getting acquainted with her early on during her trip,

following her around, showing up in the locations where she was present,

having confrontations with her step-cousins,

and then what the Netherland's  De Telegraaf has reported.

lol. I liked Fox before it was "popular". My mom calls CNN Communist News network too, I never understood the debate on this to be honest. I just like to people on Fox better then the ones on CNN or MSNBC.[/quote]

I'll tell you whats wrong with FOX; I once saw O'reilly tell a blatant lie when he knew it was a lie!! He quoted from a non-existent "Paris Business Review Journal" to support some argument he was having with somebody.

I also heard that a study found out that the more you watch FOX news- the dumber  you become!! Among the study's observations was how people who use FOX as their primary news source are more likely to hold onto beliefs that have been proven not to be true.

Hmmmmm  per fox...   Kalpoe brothers attorney on now.. saying that JVDS told the boys what to say... interesting huh?

I totally agree. IF they are all innocent, their names and photos are everywhere. They have no privacy at all. That is the reason (under Dutch law) we:
- Do not report the last name of a suspect (not even murderers)
- Do not publish a clear photo of a suspect

http://telegraaf-i.telegraaf.nl/daily/2005/6/25/TE/TE_2S_20050625_5/pagina.php

After all: innocent until proven otherwise .....

I'll tell you whats wrong with FOX; I once saw O'reilly tell a blatant lie when he knew it was a lie!! He quoted from a non-existent "Paris Business Review Journal" to support some argument he was having with somebody.

I also heard that a study found out that the more you watch FOX news- the dumber  you become!! Among the study's observations was how people who use FOX as their primary news source are more likely to hold onto beliefs that have been proven not to be true.[/quote]
well I hope thats not true otherwise most of us here are gonna be real stupid by the time this case is over considering they are the ones with the most coverage  :lol:

deleted by author, already answered.

Puggywug, it an unfortunate truth that Fox blows both CNN and MSNBC out of the water in terms of ratings. I like Greta (formerly of CNN), but most of the other show hosts are like nails on a chalkboard for me!

I like MSNBC, especially Olbermann. Fox watchers, check him out -- he's hilarious!

Conservative or liberal, at least we can all agree that Natalee's story has struck a chord in all of us.

well I hope thats not true otherwise most of us here are gonna be real stupid by the time this case is over considering they are the ones with the most coverage  :lol:[/quote]

LOL MOM.. I guess then I will be really stupid.. I guess I chose one channel to listen to.. I swutched back and forth for the others.. gets too confusing at times.. so I picked FOX..and have stuck to it!!  SOmeone passme a dunce cap please!!  :shock:

well I hope thats not true otherwise most of us here are gonna be real stupid by the time this case is over considering they are the ones with the most coverage  :lol:[/quote]

NANCY DREW'S POST BEGINS HERE
~~~~~~

Did you ever see the film, OUTFOXED?  It's well worth renting.  I spent time with the director last fall, and saw the film several times.  If you'd like to see O'Reilly lying?  Yikes.

Edited to correct the name of the film...I had it wrong.

Very true. I also like the Abrams Report on msnbc. My daughter likes it too and shes only 16 hehe

it depends whether it`s true or not, but if it`s true what I would like to know is; When he instructed them to stick with one story? B/C if it was on that sunday/monday then it`s clear that they did something or something happend. But if it was the next day when they all know that natalee dissapeared then I could also understand that paulus as an attorney could give them advice of sticking to there story .

Come on now...inquiring monkeys would like to know.  What's up? PM me if you don't want to put it on the board.

[/quote]


Thanks Alpha and I did notcie after I sent the post already.

Ummmmm....Cast...did you not see the interview with two of Natalees' ROOMATES on Greta last week???

They stated that Joran was quietly playing blackjack, not flirting, keeping to himself.  She introduced herself to him.

That does not mean anything beyond that....BUT he was not following her around based on their account.

Did someone ever mentioned that the name "Greta van Susteren" is a typical Dutch name ?
"Susteren" is even a Dutch village: http://www.susteren.nl/
The word "van" actually means "from" ....

Did you ever see the film, CONTROL ROOM?  It's well worth renting.  I spent time with the director last fall, and saw the film several times.  If you'd like to see O'Reilly lying?  Yikes.[/quote]
Havent seen it. If they have it at blockbuster or something maybe Ill try and rent it (children permitting). I really cant stand O'Reilly myself. I think its his personality. My daughter doesnt like his hair. So his show is outvoted in our house since we have a democratic run home (not the party but 5 kids 2 adults we have to vote around here lol).

I'll tell you whats wrong with FOX; I once saw O'reilly tell a blatant lie when he knew it was a lie!! He quoted from a non-existent "Paris Business Review Journal" to support some argument he was having with somebody.

I also heard that a study found out that the more you watch FOX news- the dumber  you become!! Among the study's observations was how people who use FOX as their primary news source are more likely to hold onto beliefs that have been proven not to be true.[/quote]

I personally have always believed that this was a set up from the very beginning that NH befriended Joran- the three had this already planned out IMO-and NH fell right into their game and trap

I lost faith in the MSM a long time ago. Thanks to the web, if there is a big story I check the British, Canadian and Aussie news to get a wider view point. Actually, my lack of faith in unbias news from the MSM is why I ended up on a few blogs like this one.

Also from Kock, on camera a few minutes ago on FOX (paraphrasing):
Joran's story is that Deepak came to pick him up, when Deepak denied this, he changed it to Satish, who also denies this. Kock says that the fact that J keeps changing his story would lead one to logically conclude that he has something to hide. Brothers admit that they initially lied to protect J, but that the brothers' story hasn't changed since they said they dropped off J at the Marriott beach.

Hmmmm.

EdwinW

Would you know if in Dutch law, when a person is being held and interrogated and its before a trial begins  that you are not required by law to say a anything but when you go to trial you are required to answer questions?
Thanks

This is an excellent point and a question to the rest of you:  have you found more info on blogs like this one about this case that you believe? Or do you think most of what's out there is blantant gossip and rumor mongering?  What can be done by bloggers to make the latter more believable?

Note:  By blogs, I do NOT mean this forum.  I mean actual blogs like the www.scaredmonkeys.com site.

So if one of the K bros (can't remember which) said "something bad happened", are we to believe that J told him to say that?
Just wondering.

my pm shows No PM's...  I'm just a Steve    Big Supporter.
No big Thing.   please Dear  Monkeys . Relax  :D

Joran's transportation from place to place seems to keep cropping up. We have all these reports that put him in this or that place, and very little info on how he got from A to B to C.

Yep, that was my first thought when she first became involved in the case. However, she is American, and I doubt that she speaks Dutch. She can't pronounce 'Joran' properly, and I think at the beginning she was mispronouncing 'van der Sloot'.

I do think that her Dutch name has given her more inroad into getting people on camera, than any other reporter down in Aruba.

There was a conversation about the name of Greta a couple of days ago Edwin... :lol:

It indeed sounds very dutch not german... or it is changed furhter back by her family from VON to VAN that`s possible and that she has either a dutch or german heiritage

I don't get faux. I only get CNN. What I have found is they both report the REAL breaking news at the same time..as I've seen people here make a post from fox, i've got it too at the same time with CNN.

I think the only differance is, is that Greta is their and reporting with the family. I think that is the only differance between those 2 stations. But then again, CNN has had many interviews as well with the family. So the question is, is Greta bringing more viewers to fox?

JMHO

REGARDING FOX RATINGS:
I was completely wrong, and I apologize to Scott and others.  FOX News Channel does outperform the other cable news channels.  Sorry I doubted it.  Now I'm a little frightened, though... :oops:

I have been getting most of my news off blogs for awhile. I have 5 kids just as my name suggests so it isnt always easy for me to watch the news on TV. I have found that the news from blogs are more accurate and reliable most of the time. It is always easier also to read through without having someone elses opinion interrupt what your watching. I also like being able to read about a topic without a commercial break or having to hear "More after this break". I simply dont have the time to sit around and wait to hear. Of course there is always some gossip, but that is mainly in my opinion under user comments or discussion boards like this one. You have to expect that though under those sections. I honestly cant say what anyone can do to make anything "better". All I can say is I do enjoy this blog and a few others.

Do any of you guys agree that this was and has been a set up all along when NH befriended Joran- he knew that she was an innocent/naive american- probably somewhat shy and IMO they knew that they were going to get her all along- MPO... any thoughts please

Joran is wanting to get away from the scene of the crime as soon as possible.  If he had just left her there, then thats all he did and there wouldnt be the need to create a story about someone giving him a ride.

Re: SC's  mother...I heard that she had not seen him for a year? I wonder why? Where does she live? Did anyone else see that?  Also she told the press that when she talked, she would talk to the Aruban (press, I am assuming) first.

edited for stupid errors..;-(

It is always easier also to read through without having someone elses opinion interrupt what your watching.

I can soooo relate to this, mom :)

I am in full support of blogs and blogging...as I stated here recently blogs have broken some great stories that MSM has put their nose up at.  However, I have to say most blogs engage in too much hearsay to be fully respected as a firm news source.  

Even our beloved sites Scared Monkeys and Dan's site, have both done some rumor mongering...IMO.

I find blogs sometimes think they are above or below journalistic standards.  I disagree with that thinking.  There are jounalistic standards for blogging and these guidelines should be follwed if blogs want to find regular respect.

LOL  I have watched the other stations.. and to me they ALL report pretty much the same things. and YES.. there are things on FOX I dont care for.. but I chose one station to watch or listen to.. rather then sit with the remote and flick back and forth.. Im too old...lol
 ALOT of people dont get FOX and have ASKED themselves to please post whatever is being said when its on!!  I am not glued to the tv 24/7.. just trying to help!!   :wink:

Yes I heard that- and I hope they do respect her privacy..

Getagrip wrote:




It could also mean that joran talked about before they were going to C&C who picked him up satish or both and who drove...

Zwijgrecht  right to remain silent

Een verdachte is niet tot antwoorden verplicht en dient voor verhoor te worden gewezen op zijn recht om te zwijgen. Het zwijgrecht komt voort uit het elementaire rechtsprincipe dat niemand aan zijn eigen veroordeling hoeft mee te werken. Niemand mag tegen zijn zin gedwongen worden een verklaring af te leggen. Het zwijgrecht geldt niet voor de getuige.

Jeugdcriminaliteit youth criminality

Jeugdcriminaliteit omvat zogenaamd opgroeigedrag waarbij zo nu en dan de normen worden overschreden. Kinderen, pubers en adolescenten hebben nu eenmaal de normale (gezonde) neiging om te experimenteren en grenzen te verkennen. Maar het kan ook gaan om ernstiger vormen van strafbaar gedrag, bijvoorbeeld het veelvuldig en stelselmatig plegen van delicten, om er een dure levensstijl op na te kunnen houden of om deel te kunnen uitmaken van een groep waarin delinquent gedrag de groepsnorm is.
Momenteel richten twee programma's zich op de aanpak van Jeugdcriminaliteit. Dit zijn Jeugd terecht en Operatie Jong.


De verdachte in het Nederlandse strafrecht  the suspect in Dutch law

[bewerken]
Wie is verdachte
Een verdachte is iemand ten aanzien van wie het redelijk vermoeden bestaat dat hij een bepaald strafbaar feit gepleegd heeft. Het Wetboek van Strafvordering formuleert dit als volgt:
artikel 27
Lid 1: Als verdachte wordt vóórdat de vervolging is aangevangen, aangemerkt degene te wiens aanzien uit feiten of omstandigheden een redelijk vermoeden van schuld aan eenig strafbaar feit voortvloeit.
Lid 2: Daarna wordt als verdachte aangemerkt degene tegen wien de vervolging is gericht.
[bewerken]
De rechten van de verdachte
Elke verdachte heeft bepaalde rechten. Dit is geregeld in het Wetboek van Strafvordering (Eerste Boek, titel II).
Deze rechten zijn onder andere:
Het recht op een zelfgekozen raadsman (zie artikel 28, lid 1 Wetboek van Strafvordering)
Het recht op contact met zijn raadsman (zie artikel 28, lid 2 Wetboek van Strafvordering)
Het recht om te zwijgen (zie artikel 29, lid 1 Wetboek van Strafvordering)
Het recht om kennis te nemen van de processtukken (toegang tot sommige stukken kan echter geweigerd worden indien het belang van het onderzoek dat vordert)
Categorieën: Rechtspraak | Persoon naar eigenschap

More dutch procedure

she lives on  The next Island,steve lives with his Grandparents.

HannieC , do you know if a suspect who was arrested and released can later be arrested again for the same crime, per Dutch law?

He was referring to what happened after D & S dropped him off at the Marriott beach, as far as I know.

Answer to both questions: no
But in court if you answer a question you must tell the truth. If you lie, you will be put behind bars for several years.

During interrogation you are allowed to speak but you are not forced to speak. Some even denies to speak at all. With modern techniques it is possible to "break" the morale of a suspect to talk (long interrogations, pushing things, tell someone stories about his children who misses him, etc). The police is under no circumvences allowed to use any physical violence.

That's also the reason why a trial also need "hard" evidence like DNA, traces, etc. During a trial they also may need confessions or witnesses.

If that is the case then they never went to the casino because then nobody drove at all because both of them denied driving.  Its referring to the pick up at around 3 am.

So far, the only things I can honestly say that I believe are:

1) Natlaee is missing

2) The US government has shown unusual interest and is firmly in charge

3) Mrs. Beth will not settle for a confession and no Natalee

4) Natalee was not abducted for matrimonial purposes by Ethiopian tribesmen

I confess that it is unlikely that anything I read on a blog or see on TV can dissuade me from any of the above.

How far are the islands away from one another?? I heard the samething.. about his mom not seeing him in a year.. just curious.. and why.. if you know the answer is he living with his grandparents and not his mother?? Does that have to do with his job on the Tattoo???

There are jounalistic standards for blogging and these guidelines should be follwed if blogs want to find regular respect.

I don't know, nancy, I think they are getting respect, otherwise you wouldn't have cable news channels dedicating special interest stories to them (e.g. CNN's blog spots.) I am curious (because I really don't know) where these journalistic guidelines for blogs are communicated, unless you are simply speaking of journalistic integrity in a generalized sense as applied to blogs?  I'm confused, help me out...

I just posted a clip from our home movie (taken that same week as Natalee was there) so you can get some persepective on the relationship of the lighthouse to the Holiday Inn:
Home Movie (http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=374)

Very interesting. yesterday i saw Satish's lawyer imply that they should let Satish go because they keep "asking him the same questions". The lawyer then said "they (LE) know who they have to ask questions too". definite finger pointing. The impression that the 3 amigos had somehow come together and settled on a final "story" appears not to have happenned.

Thanks, Ting.  I'm with you BTW, no Ethiopians tribesmen here :)

he just got divorced..his son is on Aruba.**You know how THAT Goes**

Fox = Red State
CNN = Blue State

And guess who won the last election? Be very, very afraid...

here is some english description of the legal process


http://www.xs4all.nl/~advocare/folder60.htm#4.

Thanks Bill - I saw that in the other thread you created.  Appreciate you putting it up there!

Deepak and Satish should be charged with fingering innocent security guards, and then not speaking up when two innocent men were picked up based upon what they told police.  In addition, this diversion gave the perp/s time to get rid of evidence.  If nothing more their lies have hurt:

1) Their mother
2) Natalee's family
3) Security guards and parents
4) Aruba

If they told the truth from the beginning I think this story may have played out much differently.

Thanks Bill..!! I have a feeling its gonna take awhile to load for me.. its loading now and my PC is running very slow!  Thanks for posting that!!

Yes it is interesting. I've been wondering if they initially agreed to go along with Joran out of naiveness. I'm sure they weren't expecting that they would end up in jail/prison for 3 weeks so far.

I have a feeling they are telling the truth now. Just my gut instinct.

I have seen no indication that the US government is firmly in charge of anything having to do with this case.  Nor should they be.  

Come to think of it, if they are firmly in charge, we can start blaming them and not the Aruban officials.[/i]

I have tried to give a bit of leniency to thinking that maybe there is room for Joren and the brothers to actually be innocent....maybe they did drop him off at the beach.....he and Natalee had a disagreement and they parted ways. The problem is, it just doesn' t make logical sense. There would be no reason to lie whatsoever. Even if he was trying to cover up the fact he was out past curfew...drinking no less...all of his alibi stories have him doing the exact same things that would have made sense for a teen past curfew to lie about.

No...he lies about what happen to him and Natalee....going as far as to pin the problem on two out of work guards originally. I understand he even bungled that by not  identifying the exact uniform that is worn at the HI.....and he was at the  HI gambling only hours before?? The only reason to be text messaging friends to lie and set up alibis for him is because something happened...something he needed to cover up in a hurry! That said, the question I can't seem to come up with is where would he hide a body in a short length of time???

PVDS being sent back to jail!

LOL MOM.. I guess then I will be really stupid.. I guess I chose one channel to listen to.. I swutched back and forth for the others.. gets too confusing at times.. so I picked FOX..and have stuck to it!!  SOmeone passme a dunce cap please!!  :shock:[/quote]

I thank Fox for their coverage of the Natalee Holloway case.

However first  Geraldo lied multiple times during his first report of the case and then got in the Twitty's face reporting with unconfirmed info, which was not his place to inform this destrot family in the first place.

Second  O'Reilly spouting off about the chaperones when he did not know what the hell he was talking about. BOR at first reported that all the chaperones but one had returned to the states on a private plane leaving all the students behind.

This is what is considered fair and balance and is accepted by the public as being fair and balanced?  And this is considered the #1 news show. That says alot about us Americans. Perhaps we should add a different category and/or type of program entitled commentary or talkmeisters  or politics and soaps. Fox News should change their moto to: First to Report, Whether Right or Wrong.

Fox News savior in the Natalee Holloway case is Greta (a no-nonsence) down to earth human being. They should miss her when she goes to MSNBC soon. And when Greta leaves I will kiss Fox News goodbye with the exception of O'Reilly reading his hatemail (which is the highlight of my night).

Hi Bob - I don't think the US is in charge either, or we'd have seen it on the front of the Washington Post.  There has literally been NO coverage in there at all over the last week, which I find absolutely weird....

that is why I think they should be punished even if they didnt hurt natalie directly.

Mr. Paul van der Sloot is da chief justice on da island (he is da boss of the judges) it's because of that, that the Chief Justice of Curacao has to come to the island to follow and make the choices in the case.
I agree that there is something fishy about the whole thing, but it's unfair how the world now look at Aruba.
We are very caring and loving people. In the States much worse things happen and after sometimes 10 /20 years they crack the case. Give the arubians a little bit of slack. Don't forget that we are surrounded by sea if they dumped (IF THEY DID) her body in the sea. The sharkes would have already eaten the body. And if the suspects shut up and don't talk than the case will close and they will go out free. And don't forget either that paul is a chief justice he knows the law like you guys know the songs they play on MTV. It's not easy to crack a chief justice.

A Police officer of The sunny happy Island of Aruba

That is why I think they hid her at his house that first night, and finished the job the next night.  That is why dad had to get the Americans away when they showed up in the middle of the night.

I just wish these guys would tell the truth.  Beth is looking terrible.

WOOOO HOOOO!!

inthepacific, I've had that feeling for a while too.  If not both brothers, at least Satish.  I also think there may be truth to the theory that all 3 of them are responsible for what happened to Natalee.  But I really have begun to think that the 2 were protecting Joran in the beginning before they realized how very serious it was and how deep they would be drug into it and are now telling the truth.

Absolutely:  Obstruction of Justice

As I said I am a fan of blogs...but, like any other form of communication, long term respect comes from an authentic trust between reader and publication/blog. Rumors and innuendo don't gain trust.  Blogs are gaining respect, but those who want to be more than a flash in the pan IMO need to follow basic journalistic guidelines.

http://www.cyberjournalist.net/news/000215.php

The blogs that have broken huge stories all have gained this trust and continue to do so.

I personally think forums need to take on a few of these rules as well. I don't think it's o.k. to throw around innocent people's names without some iota of fact at the root.

I see it.  Thanks for the footage Bill

Absolutely.  At this point, if they are completely innocent of any wrong doing with Natalee, they are what led to 2 innocent people being detained for days and an investigation growing cold very quickly.  That, to me, should be punished.

My what a few weeks sleeping on concrete without decent necessities can do when you are taking the rap for someone else!

Hi papito :)

We are not looking negatively at the island of Aruba. We are concerned that there are people in custody who may be involved in trying to get away with a crime.

EDITED to add: Natalee's family just wants to find her and bring her back home where she belongs - I think we can all identify with that!

EdwinW - Thank you for answering my post.  The answer is most interesting.

iquitos- Thank you

You're welcome!  Sorry it took so long to transfer the movies my my PC.  Perhaps I should render a streaming version, too?  That may help with the download time.

I had hoped that the psychological impact of being transferred from the police jail to the prison might have made one or more them crack and confess any involvement they might had.  It didn't.

Now I am hoping that the shock of seeing his father (a respected official on the island) jailed, might lead Joran to confess.  

Who knows?

The worse-case scenario is that we've spent the last month arresting the wrong people and chasing down false leads.  I don't even wanna think about that.

It is hard to respond to that properly without discussing US foreign policy, which would be off topic.

Maybe Robert Burns can help.

Didn't I read on here somewhere or hear on MSM that there is no "obstruction" charge in Aruba?

Papito, Paul van der Sloot is not the chief justice... he was just a judge in training, and it appears that he was turned down for a judgeship position.

You do not but unfortunatly many of your fellow country man do ! I am apealed by people who say lets invade or boycott Aruba or curcaoe.

We certainly are!!!   More , please.

Thank you iquitos. Very straightforward (and with cute little pictures, too.) :)  Since Croes was first up to bat today and will be released, then he is probably what....completely innocent, perhaps a witness?  Has it happened that someone's been arrested, released and re-arrested later?

Perhaps her great great father is Dutch. About 100 years ago many immigrants arrived at Ellis Island, NY. I searched the website but did not find information on that. Anyway, there many Dutch influences ... more than you probably know :-D The family of former president Theodore Roosevelt is ... Dutch.

Ditto.  In a forum, it is possible to pass on innocent people's phone numbers and urge action against them.  Kinda hard to gain respect for that.  A lot of bright and considerate people often contribute to a forum, but one dumb contributor takes everyone down a notch.

Avatar question: Where do you get your avatars? I went to an avatar site, but my security program alerted me that they were trying to send me a Trojan! Also other avatars and small pix I've downloaded are too big.

First of all, bendex, I am CANADIAN, and not AMERICAN.

The boycott Aruba people are in the minority. I'm sure you would be able to arrive at the same conclusion from reading on this message board.

Instead of being so concerned about how they are being perceived, Aruban LE has to focus on solving this case.

Thank you for your understanding.

[/quote]

OK guys..just logged back on..front page of AOL news said case has been changed from missing persons to murder investigation..marianne croes says that it is suspect that she is no longer alive....give me some word, monkeys..true and respectable monkey word!!

Thanks for the post, and it clears up for me what exactly papa vds does for a living since its been pretty confusing what his job is/was.
For the record I dont look down on the arubans. I know you guys have been hit with a media frenzy and not used to dealing with a crime such as this. And from the posters here from aruba, you all seem very nice.

I agree with all of you. Had they not lied in the beginning, perhaps the LE would have been able to hold all three immediatly, rather than letting them go and 2 security people taking the heat for their lie.

It certainly did hamper with the investigation from the beginning.

Punishment is deserving on the Kalpoe brothers for their initial lie.

You shouldn't get a trojan if you are using right click of your mouse to get the avatar for your picture file. You can look for sites that specialize in icons to find smaller pictures if all you are finding is large graphics.

The ones that say that are a very tiny minority.  Loud, yes, but quite small.

Was answered..My PM is N/A..!!
I'm just a humble Chatter.and   a Big Steve Supporter.
Steve's Mom did take the same flight  in from Curacao this AM as the Judge.. :D
IMHO

Thanks for the explanation Getagrip.

[/quote]

Don't forget, New York used to be Nieuw Amsterdam :P

Does anyone knows if natalee holloway speeks latino or spanish

So you DO know him?  Please tell us about him?  Now that you have spoken out you might as well share with us....why you alway believed in him? to me 'My Baby' would make one believe you are extremely close, IMO  Do you also know any of the other three suspects?

Don't forget Albany, New York where they hold an annual tulip festival. It has a very Dutch influence. There's also Amsterdam, NY....gee wonder how they came up with that name. :D  :D  :D

Could someone please post or PM me the best map of Aruba.  I have just searched the forum, but cannot find the one with the dots on the left side showing all of the hotels ...

Id greatly appreciate it .

Kristy   :D

Latino is not a language. I've read that NH studied Spanish in school.

This post is incorrect, momto5. This guy is spamming :evil:

WHERE are we getting that Paul vdS is chief justice, boss of the judges???? It has been widely reported that he was a fairly minor official, a judge in training who has been turned down for a permanent judgeship position.

1. AOL sucks.
2. Weren't the security guards charged with murder as well?
3. Marianne Croes has no idea what she's talking about.
4. The word is there is NO EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE! :shock:

A good friend of mine lives in Haarlem...in the Netherlands, but of course everyone knows about the Harlem district in NYC  :)

http://aruba.com/pages/regionalmap.htm

i commented on this last night.   we have a consulate in curacao with jurisdiction over aruba  the consulate is responsible in cases like this, missing americans, dead americans, etc yet the consulate has been invisible.  odd

Took Spanish in HS

Unfortunately, we haven't any idea what they have from the stuff they sent to forensics in the Netherlands. I'm referring to those bags they took from the VDS's, the cars, computers, etc.

I don't find all of it incorrect. Alot of what he says, makes sense. This also doesn't look like spam.

The only questionable thing that he says is whether or not PVDS is cheif justice on Aruba. I haven't heard that one.

Too bad they coulnd't get Croes to fess up. The should have arrested his mother, she was standing outside the courtroom. I'll bet he would have started talking then!

I have a good idea - nothing - just like the rest of their "evidence".

Have you noticed the 'gang signs' used in the pics of Joran and Croes?

He is spamming because he has posted the same message several times on diff threads. It is incorrect because of what he says about PVDS, that is what I was referring to, the rest is just his opinion.

you got it, they don't want to appear to be firmly in charge because then they get blamed.  fbi much prefers credit to blame and they have had plenty of the latter lately.

Most kids use these gang signs. Doesn't mean anything except they're trying to act cool.

I did actually  hear on FOX the other night that PVDS is actually some head of Government something...I dont know...its all hearsay at this point...GRRRRR :twisted:

Nothing unusual for a lot of teens today.

I notice this is your first post. If you are curious about the gang signs, do a search on this site and you should come up with quite a few interesting past discussions of this topic.

Since this is your first post, let me welcome you to the forum!

I hate to say this guys but I am afraid they are going to release joran van der sloot or they will prosecute hin on hindering the investigation as well as I doubt if the prosecuter has a case.

Is this sarcasm?

I think we know exactly what PVDS does, it has been confirmed by numerous, reliable sources. He was not the head of anything.

awww ok thanks lol. I went to frost a cake. trying to get ready for a mini 16th bday party here while reading posts. Sorry took awhile to respond.

Yes indeed !!!

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20050626/D8AVF6KO0.html

from the article - Aruba Judge Orders Release of Disc Jockey



But on Saturday, Satish Kalpoe's lawyer said his client admitted that his story was a lie.

Satish now claims that he and brother dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off together at the Marriott hotel, then went home, his lawyer, David Kock, said.

On Sunday, Kock said the brothers were becoming increasingly angry with van der Sloot and accusing him of changing his story to put the blame for Holloway's disappearance on them.

Kock would not elaborate.

Van der Sloot's lawyer, Antonio Carlo, said, "My client maintains his innocence."

Where are you hearing this?? I hope not...this guy has told too many lies.

SAY WHAT??? The woman lives  on Curacao.
That is a Cruel Remark. :twisted:

if you stay away from the monkeys and cable tv, listen to NPR and read a serious paper your chances of hearing anything about natalee outside the MB market and the hometowns of the Holloways and Twittys are slim.  I tried it for a few hours the other day but i relapsed.

You're too fast for my typing :-D. I didn't read the post that well so I had to edit mine.

but i relapsed  :lol:

Please...tell us WHY you are a big Steve supporter....how long have you been his supporter....I think you must be the first I have read about.....share with your fellow monkeys....who BTW...never relax!  We are too busy swtiching channels to relax!  ;-)

He was trying to be 'sarcastic', suggesting that there's a conspiracy to 'frame' the suspects now in custody.

IMHO, that's a pretty blatant attack on the Aruban justice system.

Thanks Nicci...I have found that nobody really has been able to verify PVDS real position. So for all we know he could be just that.

[\quote]

I don't find all of it incorrect. Alot of what he says, makes sense. This also doesn't look like spam.

The only questionable thing that he says is whether or not PVDS is cheif justice on Aruba. I haven't heard that one.[/quote]

I did actually  hear on FOX the other night that PVDS is actually some head of Government something...I dont know...its all hearsay at this point...GRRRRR :twisted:[/quote]

In defense of the Kalpoes:  Perhaps JvdS was very "persuasive" when he asked the Kalpoes to lie.  

If the son of a judge/government official  pressured me to lie, I would feel like I was between a rock and a hard place.

BIG NEWS Paulus VDSLOOT has WAIVED his right to NOT testify against his son...


GuyWdog

Paulis VDS waives his right NOT to testify against his son.

Fox news

Did you guys hear that?  PVDS waived his right to not testify against his son.  Maybe this is old news.

oops, had to edit.

Unfortunately not. Don't you keep up with the news? They arrested Joran's father to put pressure on Joran to confess. Dutch law sure is a lot like Mafia law... :lol:

do people have part or full time cleaning ladies and servants on aruba?

I have not heard it but my best guess is the following

1. Joran did not do it and lied to civer his behiny for another act.

2. Joran is involved in the disapearance of Natalee , but after recieving clear instruction from his father . He denies everything , do not forget one important thing no corpse , no confession no case ! Might have commited the perfect murder.

That's an excellent point, and most likely what the reality is.

That was speculation, inspector.

That's because he has nothing bad to say about Joran.

this sounds like bad news for the prosecutor IMO  :?

Maybe the truth is finally about to come out.

Does Papa waiving this right mean that he didn't see anything but did hear something?

Damn I missed that....!! SO .. does that mean he will testify against him??   Im confused!

No actually Katya - that was out of the mouth of your official Rudy Croes.

or a version of it?

It could mean that he is going to take the blame so son could have a life.

Now that Fox NEws has said that Paulus VD Sllot has WAIVED his right to NOT Testify against his son that pretty much shoots down everyone's Theories about his involvments. It is looking like they have lots of INNOCENT People locked up....

GuyWdog

Could you 'splain this ruling?

This just gets curiouser and curiouser.  Why would he do that I wonder?

nevermind  :shock:

Very interesting...So he is willing to tell LE all he knows.
@8 We will find out if he will stay in Da Klink.

Yup, here it is: The police have no evidence in this case... :wink:

People wake up......cant you see this is a SIGN From Daddy VDSllot saying that he is innocent and has NO FEAR of testifying.....


GuyWdog

And how do you know that Inspector??

I hate to be overly cynical, but if the body is so well hidden/disposed of that he knows it will never be found, he could very well volunteer to testify in defense of his son (lie on the stand), increasing the chances that he is cleared.

or it could mean that he has another son who is even younger, as well as a wife that he does not wish to see subjected to the same "intense interrogation" he and his son are enduring.

Finally, someone with some brains! :D  :D  :D

I did actually  hear on FOX the other night that PVDS is actually some head of Government something...I dont know...its all hearsay at this point...GRRRRR :twisted:[/quote][/quote]

Paul is a lawyer. He taught at the Law school at the U of Aruba and served in some capacity in the Justice Department (not as judge). He has been a judge in training, able to sit in on cases but not make judgements. He spent a one year internship in the Netherlands from March 2004-2005 preparing for his judgeship, but failed the test. He reportedly was seeking another (non-judge) posistion with the JD at the time of NH disappearance.

This has been hashed around a bunch and there have been enough supporting reliable sources for this to be accepted as fact, I think.

You could be right, and If this is the case, I would hope that they have told of this extreme pressure to the investigators.[/quote]

People of strong moral character will make the right decision under difficult circumstances.

It's comments like this that happen day in and day out that make you wonder why this is allowed by several posters yet Razzy is banned for "tone"....

Inspector, that comment sucks!!!

Yeah, they could put Joran's little sister in jail too. :lol:

I Hear doors opening soon.
LE got Nothing. But Pressure.

My husband thinks so. I said well maybe he is going to testify so he doesnt lose anymore credibility. He said or maybe he didnt see or hear anything to begin with.

Thanks for the map la_cavalière.   :D

just shows he thinks he is good at lying!!

Again, this comment is dreadful.

OK, I've added a "streaming" video version of the clip for those of us with less broadband-like connections to the Internet.  This should be faster, and the quality degradation is minimal.  But you be the judge.

Again, I put this on our Website (so no it won't run up a big bill for Scared Monkeys :-) so that you can get an idea of where the lighthouse is in relation to the Holiday Inn.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=374

No little sister, but two younger brothers.

Wonder if they've been questioned? I think they were both with Mom vdS in the Netherlands, but he might have talked to one of them.

Rudy Croes said he was speculating.

Inspector has a PM from me. Let's move on.

<<Paulus VDSLOOT has WAIVED his right to NOT testify against his son... >>

1) This looks like a tactical move by PVDS.  

2) How the hell is the family privilege at issue not jointly or collectively held?

The ever so popular Geraldo is up next.  Can't wait to hear his insight. :lol:

Ugh! Great...that man confuses me more than anything else.

P.S. Sorry, RB  :oops:

Legal experts on Fox have a different take on what PVDS did when he waived his right to not testify against son.....they said he could be worried about his career, and if the son made a mistake, he needs to think about his own future.  From all that, I got that whatever he knows, he now must tell, and he knows it's in HIS best interests to cooperate with LE.

I didn't get the impression at all that this would mean Joran was innocent.

What theories would those be?  On the contrary, the case is following along just as I would suspect.

GuyWdog
still waiting on the people to applogise to Croes for the SICK stuff you wrote about him !!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
me ,too :D

Cant we all just get along? lol   Yikes!  :?

I really don`t think that paul waives his right to NOT testify against his son has ANYTHING to do with a careermove....sorry !!!

I hate to admit it but I was once iterrogated for a few days in the Dutch city of Haarlem many years ago, they not hit you but they play very strong mental games. I was sh*tt*ng all colours of the rainbow.
Let you sleep on a cold floor wake you up every hour to intrrogated again, bring in your family issues etc.

I stay put with my view, if Joran has not confessed by now he is innocent , and when he is not innocent I bow in deep respect for him for being such a die- hard for a first timer and a kid of 17 years old .

If hes has confessed certainly there would be a more structured search for Ntalees where abouts.

That's what I was thinking.  Perhaps he thinks the authorities don't have enough evidence against him or his son, and he is planning ot lie under oath...***JUST SPECULATIN'****Just throwing it out there.

Uh oh, Geraldo's saying that SC voluntarily went to the police and said that he SAW the 3 drop off Natalee at the HI - presumably to cover for his buddies. When their stories changed, SC was taken in for further questioning.

So SC may not be involved in the disappearance, but he is at fault for lying and obstructing justice.

i agree with you, Hannie.

THat is a question that has been raised many times on this blog hence we must start somewhere.

I agree that PVDS just made a tactical move for he and his son.  He waives his right not to talk but continues to tell what he has told all along.  Joran snuck out, he did not know that, woke Joran up for school, doesn't know for sure if he went or not.  No more damage done than already done and he looks as if he has nothing to hide.

per Fox, the case is now changing, not by the minute but by the second!   :twisted:

Most of the rest of the world does not envy Americans. but this is totally off topic...

I have never said anything about croes. Quite frankly when I heard his ex-wife talk about him, my hunch told me he was innocent towards the disappearance of Natalee.

Can you elaborate a bit?  I get Fox, but I'm deaf and they don't have closed captioners on duty on weekends!   :twisted:  GRRRRR..... I'm just reading by-lines!

Geraldo knows Nothing.  This AM he had the E-Mail  Story.
LE is NOT briefing Him.

Personal Observation here, please liten up. I have seen the character of this board slowly in the last day spiral into a constant conviction of these people that have been taken in for questioning. While i think it is alright to speculate, I constantky see people post stuff that says these guys did this or that. You obviousoy have convicted these guys already without ANY FACTS. Dont you all know this is a SLIPPERY SLOPE issue? I am personally sickened by some of the stuff I have seen posted on here. From talks of RAPE, to Gang Bangs, this is just RIDICULOUS Can you not discuss this without your constant barage of Lynch Mob Mentality?


GuyWdog--

I`m so sorry to see that everything that comes out must be not believable or something. I think that a lot of people here are to eager to hang somebody.......

me ,too :D[/quote]

 WELL  I can HONESTLY say I have never said ANYTHING sick about your friend Steve Croes or anyone else for that matter.. YOU want apologies.. which is fine. BUT still wont coment on why SC is your BABY . OR if you know the other 3 people??  Tit FOR Tat.. Damn... I dont want to argue......... I hate arguing.. BUT not ALL of us here said SICK comments about your BABY Steve.. ONLY speculations made since he was an operator of a boat is ALL I ever heard..and that isnt sick sounding to me.. IMO...  you have a teenage girl missing.. dipshits that dont know their ass form a hole in the ground.. Lies Lies Lies.. and then have someone who has acsess to a boat then involved??   Its no nwonder people here MAY have thought he was involved in some way.. I am happy for the dude that hes getting out.. I dont believe in holding an innocent person in jail oif they have nothing to do with what is going on!!!  If you want apologies.. then why not say WHY he is your baby.. ??????????  DAMN!

That is how I read it as well.  This just gets more and more confusing??

BTW....any confirmation about Mrs VDS's house being 'boarded up'...(I am thinking hurricane shutters here).....has there been any sight her her in the past 2 days?

hey yall

That was just their "stay tuned" outro line before the last commercial break. It gave me a much needed belly laugh. No offense or cultural insensitivity intended.

Hi, sweetie  :D

Hiya Dash!!  How are you?

I'm sure if your child was in the same position, you would want as much coverage as possible to keep officials working hard on the case. Many of us have been here, reading from day one....before there was a board on the blog comments. We have grown through this case as a group....hoping and praying for Natalee's return. She is as one member put in their signature "everyone's daughter" now.

Well, I didn't say anything sick about him...but as far as I know, letting him go because they don't have enough evidence no way ascertains guilt or innocence. Only lack of evidence.  Just sayin'.

I'm sure Croes is more upset about spending 8 days in jail for nothing than anything written about him on the internet...

Hey Dash..  tone here is a bit hot and not much light going on.  In other words, same as usual.

Hello!  We have rumor here but are basically absorbing the news from the hearings going on today.

 WELL  I can HONESTLY say I have never said ANYTHING sick about your friend Steve Croes or anyone else for that matter.. YOU want apologies.. which is fine. BUT still wont coment on why SC is your BABY . OR if you know the other 3 people??  Tit FOR Tat.. Damn... I dont want to argue......... I hate arguing.. BUT not ALL of us here said SICK comments about your BABY Steve.. ONLY speculations made since he was an operator of a boat is ALL I ever heard..and that isnt sick sounding to me.. IMO...  you have a teenage girl missing.. dipshits that dont know their ass form a hole in the ground.. Lies Lies Lies.. and then have someone who has acsess to a boat then involved??   Its no nwonder people here MAY have thought he was involved in some way.. I am happy for the dude that hes getting out.. I dont believe in holding an innocent person in jail oif they have nothing to do with what is going on!!!  If you want apologies.. then why not say WHY he is your baby.. ??????????  DAMN![/quote] I Did 6 Times!!!

Hey Dash!  How are you?   :D

I don't know either.  I can only tell you why it interested me..... I found it weird how they (Arubans) handled the case, and didn't felt like they treated it like one of their own. Maybe they don't look after their own the same way. I have no idea. I'm not there, never been there, don't plan to go there. (I'm a snow bunny kind of fan!)  

But who knows?  But welcome!

I fully agree , why every dissapearance has to be ascociated with terms as sex , drugs, kidnap, and gangbanging, some people over here have really perverse thoughts. Why not be that she dissapeard on her own or that she died an accidental death ?

DASH!!! Hey girl...how are things in Bama?

Wow, just reading over some posts... it sure seems that people have forgotten the point of this forum: to support an innocent girl who has been horribly victimized... glad to see so many people are willing to stick up for her attackers...  :roll:

quote="GuyWdog"]It's sad and you Americans WONDER whyt the REst of the WORLD Hates US....[/b]

GuyWdog

"Personal Observation here, please liten up. I have seen the character of this board slowly in the last day spiral into a constant conviction of these people that have been taken in for questioning."

Hey Guy, why don't you take your own advice....take a chill pill or something.  Sheesh....telling the rest of us to lighten up?

Move on.

Hello Dash..!!  HUGS form PA to you honey...

i suppose bendex that because we have no real information but indications that the three main stuspects are lying that we tend to rule out the possibility that she disappeard or that death was accidental. if that were the case why would the stories not have converged by now?  that does not seem to be what's happening.

Is it possible that Steve was guilty of something. But Is being released because he has time served that covers the offense.

Regarding Lemon's post about how Aruba handled this  case....obviously when you go to another country, they handle things differently. At first, they probably didn't take it seriously until all the media attention.

Well to be quite sincere I prever that she is alive and escaped to venezuela slipping cocktails then she has been murdered by some island folks .

I agree. And I'd really like to start ragging on them... :twisted:

I don't want to start a conversation about Bin Laden. Just stating that that seems like a more important story than one missing person.

Nicole I think you asked a reasonable question, just bad timing as it seems alot of people are disagreeing at the moment.
Personally I was attracted to the case for 2 reasons. One being my own son was kidnapped, so I am naturally drawn to stories like this to see what they are doing in an attempt to bring the missing person home. Thankfull as I have said before I got my son back.
Second I also have a teenage daughter, so that also peaked my interest since I do have a child close in age to Natalee. So thats why for me, I cant speak for anyone else though.  :D

What is going on is 'speculation', it's what people (all of them no matter where they live) do when no one is saying what actually happened or is happening.   It is what a forum is for, discussing issues, speculation, theory and whatever!

But what I am really perplexed about is your statement ".... It's sad and you Americans WONDER why the rest of the WORLD Hates US... "   Now, is that US as in United States, or is it US as in all of us (you, too)?

As to other's hating or not hating US,  I think we have no power over what they think.  We are who we are and we shouldn't pretend to be anything else!

cjm thanks for the links

Paul van der Sloot (PvdS)
According to the article , PvdS has been living 17 years in Aruba and the last tree years he has been a substitute judge-in-training at the justice department. The department was not impressed with PvdS’ performance trough the years and had already decided internally that he would not be able to continue to function as a judge-in-training. PvdS wasn’t allowed to the conduct court (hearings) anymore and the department has been seeking other internal assignments for him until they found a fitting position for him in the department. De Telegraaf reports that the authorities have done some investigating and this has lead them to believe  that PvdS gave instructions to the 3 boys and told them what version of the story they have to give to the authorities and what they shouldn’t tell. This has also been reported by the respected Dutch news program, NOVA, on Satruday. You can view NOVA's report here (in Dutch)

Lack of evidence does not equate with innocence.  It is just what it is, lack of proof but NOT validation, vindication nor any kind of proof one did not commit a crime, merely that prosecution lacks the proof thereof.

As for the big mystery of why Little Joren has not cracked by now, well gee!  You don't suppose it is because no one is even trying to cause him to do so, do ya?  After all, how tough can it be being interrogated by his daddy's best friend.   :roll:   That's what the man said, not me!   :!:

Oh, Joren, did you do it?? :wink:  :wink:

Oh please don't ask me any more!!  :wink:  :wink:

And the photos from inside that brand new prison looked VERY spiffy!  He should see some in this country.  But if the chief LE refused to recuse himself and is in charge of the investigation, Joren is bound to know him quite intimately and knows he has nothing to fear.  Just play along with daddy's best friend until the time runs out.

No body, no conviction, eh?  Hey, it works for me!!   :D   Applies both ways, too, right?

Dash, how was the fund raiser yesterday?My parents and family were around i think...Very crowded in MB lately...you doing ok today?

I think we all have to keep in mind that we don't really know exactly what happened, do we?   People are innocent until proven guilty, or so we the innocent would hope!   :wink:  :wink:

YAY!  Dash is here!  Welcome  :D

Yesterday we were reading Mr VDS was not cooperating and today he has waived his right, this may be health related. Both he and his son have to be dangerously close to a meltdown, maybe heart related for him, high blood pressure. Joran must be in the pits of despair,..suicidal? I would think there is something to be told by the father.

Did say I didn't care. It's just that this case is no different to me than any of the other missing kids in this world. Maybe a few of you need to take a break from this? Just a suggestion :x

Speculation. Both about the relationship between PVDS and the head of Aruban LE AND about who is conducting the interrogation.

Not only is that distastful, it is completely ignorant Anna.  You should know better.

I got confused and went to the church instead! Then I thought they must have cancelled it b/c of rain since no one was there, but really I was just at the wrong place! grrrr!

   please HE WAS A JUDGE please

Good question -

Personally I think it's because this case is very mysterious, and everyone loves a mystery. :wink:

Dash,

I've been thinking about you alot lately!  I hoped some of these dreadful comments hadn't scared you off.  We've missed you and MOST of us think of you and your friends much of the time.

Do tell how you are?  Did you attend the fundraiser?  How are you holding up?

MOST of us are still in here fighting for truth!!!

I send you my best,

~Nancy
The one who gave you the name "DASH" LOL

In Belgium there was a  case of three guys taking a girl for a ride , hence they where all drunk, the girl slipped and broke her neck , they where so panicked strucked that they dumped her body in the canal . As they where all afraid of the law. I am trying to say here we have speculated in forms ascociating the suspects to violance related to Natalee . Something totally different might have happend aswell .

Who is Dash?

About 10 thousand US nationals go missing abroad every month.

This case is different because of the unusual level of US government involvement. That is what made it stand out to me.

Ummmmmm...not attacking. Please go re-read my posts.  Just wondering why this one case is any different from the thousands of others, especially underage kids who disappear. Where was the 24/7 coverage of those 3 little boys who disappeared from NJ last week? I didn't see much of that.

Yes, EVERYTHING here is speculation.  But I am just quoting what the man said in the MSM.  He is the one who asked "How can I do this to my best friend's son?"  so what conclusion could one draw from that?  I think the honorable thing would have been to recuse himself from the case if he was admitting publicly to having difficulty doing his job.  

So are you saying he is NOT the best friend and was lying about it?  A chief of LE who makes things up like that is not very comforting, either.

The person logged in as ---  We've nicknamed her Dash.  She is one of Natalee's friends.  And a board favorite.

When someone goes missing what keeps it in the media is the family and friends of the victim.  The family needs to make themselves available for press conferences and interviews which Natalee's family has done.

The missing kids in Idaho is a good example.  The family has given very few interviews thus it's completely dropped from the news.  The opposite was true for Jessica Lunsford....her father continued to press conferences even while he and his family were not ruled out as suspects.  

The family makes the difference, IMO.

His actions have contributed to the possibility that Natalee will not get justice.

And what if your wrong? What if Joran is not the guy, and Natalee is still alive somewhere? And all the police are doing is barking up the wrong tree? Valuable time is being lost with this IMO. :(

Hmm, I saw it.  That case has been solved.  That is why there is no longer much coverage.

For the record, my husband was involved heavily with one of the Missing Children's organizations in my area. So for the record, I can assure you that it helps to keep a case in the limelight so the case is given enough interest. In the US, it's a bit easier to keep a case in the local spotlight. But this case is on foreign soil.....out of the hands of the US. Even the FBI are guests...not in charge. So it only makes sense that some of us want to know what happened to Natalee and see her found. The parents have done an excellent job of keeping this case alive and moving forward. Apparantly quite a few Americans are interested, or FOX would drop this case as it's main fare. Since they havent, I have to think there are quite a few people watching fox keep up to the latest on this case.

Rogers:

I have to agree with Anna, it's rather doubtful we've got a case without a confession or a body.  It's reality, not distasteful.

Hey Dash - Great to see ya!  We missed you.  I hope you're doing okay.

Nicole - I'm not sure what you expect people to be discussing in a NATALEE HOLLOWAY FORUM

I don't know why people are interested in her case... I'm just glad they are.  Natalee is a wonderful person and we all just REALLY need her to come home as soon as possible.  If the media can help catalyze that process, then I hope it gets even more attention.

Nice story Anna ,

 First questionCould you give me the source where it states that  Joran is being iterrogated by daddies best friend.

 Second question ever been to jail ?

Third question could you sentence Joran guilty with the current facts availible.

Nicole
because very few people expect their children to NOT return home from a planned vacation where their community schoolchildren go on yearly trips and funnel money into the economy this has posed a problem for those who suported those kind of excursions and have raised questions about the liability of the host country when they decide to do so. I imagine the community of MB will not plan to send any schoolchildren out of the states for a very long time. If nothing else it opens a discussion about what to expect when you visit another country and how to handle emergencies of this nature. People do go missing everyday from all over the globe, most do not plan to disappear. When they do it becomes a focus for wnyone who cares to concern themselves with this issue. Working on a local level with safety and schoolchildren this has drawn my interest and concern.

Is it possible that he has agreed to testify in exchange for release, since he didn't do anything but perhaps knows something -- does Dutch law have anything along those lines, I wonder.

Hopefully Razzle is still asleep.  And we need to respect Dash.  She has brought a lot to this board.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that when Anna wrote that it "applies both ways too" it was a threat to get Joran and make his body disappear.

That is what I found to be distastful.[/i]

You responded before I had a chance to edit it. Problem is, that you're not quoting messages properly, so when someone quotes you in reply, it messes up.

(http://birminghamscene.com/graphics/images/mbhs_yellow_ribbon1.jpg)


GuyWdog

This is Not the Case..No plea bargain in Aruba.

I think there is a confession even if it is of sorts after reading this article, and considering the weekend of leaks when we learned "something bad happened" and there was a "confession" reported. Like I said, LE probably has what it needs from at least one of the bros kalpoe if not both.

I'm not sure Paulus VDS waiving his right not to testify against his son means much.  Obviously, using that right would make both his son and himself look more guilty.  It would be a lot simpler for him to just lie.  

Of course, there's the possibility that he really doesn't know anything.

Does anyone know when this testimony of Papa VDS is supposed to happen?  Maybe I missed it.

Well, I just graduated high school and was supposed to go to Cancun in August. Now my parents won't let me go. It seems I'm being punished for a dumb mistake of someone else. It's not fair.

Do you all agree that the supposed lie of Joran , Deepak and Satish made  about dropping natalee of at the holliday in is the only suspicious thing there is against them ?

Where do I say Joren is the guy??  I did NOT so please do not put words in my mouth.   :!: It is not I who has wasted the time while she might have been alive but this very same man who stated he had problems doing his job and detaining Joren.  I don't know who did it but I do not think this is any way to find out, either.  I just hope and pray they have made lots of progress of which we are totally unaware.  It would have been nice, however, to have someone in charge who did not describe himself in this manner, don't you agree?  Or is it just A-OK with your for his to state that he is the best friend of the father right after the release the three prime suspects for ten days?  You DON'T see anything troubling about that?

But Joren was the last one seen with her and he does have the comments about "roofies" on some of those websites and he did lie, admittedly.  Just basing my comments on that for neither one of us knows for a fact what happened.  You don't know that he is NOT the guy, either.  He could well be and if so, still time was wasted while she just might have still been alive.  Example, thrown in mine shaft bound but not yet dead, buried alive, etc.  

Whether Joren did it or not, this is not a good thing to have happened.

Basically they said that it doesn't really mean "testify" because they are not under oath or in a trial.  He has just agreed to answer questions regarding his son.  That's what I heard a few minutes ago, anyway.

Latest from Rheil World View (http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/):
"Aruba Breaking

4:00 PM Update: It is being supposed that the elder v d Sloot has nothing to hide, hence the earlier waiver. Potentially, if investigators believe he has given them whatever truth he knows, he could be released tonight, barring enough evidence to hold him as a suspect in the case. That does not mean that he will necessarily incriminate Joran in some way by stating what he knows.

3:45 Update: Geraldo's amazing report: Steve Croes voluntarily went to the police and said he saw the boys drop Natalee off at the Holiday Inn - a story from which the boys later backed away. Subsequently, Croes was detained because he apparently showed himself to be willing to lie in support of his friends in this matter. Interesting look at the Dutch justice system: no sign of a recent haircut for Geraldo."

From what I understand, the decision whether PVDS will be released or detained for another 8 days is tonight at 8 pm.

Thanks for explaining who Dash was.  Duh...  ---  Should have caught on to that!

Dash, I'm sorry you about your friend. I hope they find her alive and well.  

I am ALSO glad this is getting the publicity it is getting, if it was my daughter that was missing I would be all over the media as well. So Beth Twitty is doing a good job in trying to find her daughter.

Sorry! LOL I do have a problem with using the quote button.  I'll work on that!

What has he and his son been made out to be.
Psychopathic Sexual deviants.??
Gee I wonder if Paulus will ever work again. I can see them on a street corner somewhere in the Netherlands with tin cups in hand.
Freedom of speech-- the right to spew false accusations and ruin lives.

Thanks, and I meant no disrespect to your friend.  Am just curious if they will call him as a witness. Here we call people as witnesses but never detain them, so I'm wondering now if he can still be called in to testify should this go to trial.

ok guys....i still think my slant may be on track... $120 million is a lot of dough ....that the "businessmen"  in Panama and Nicarauga would want to recoup...

Natalee's Uncle Tom is head of ALL investment services for AmSouth Bank in Birmingham but yet he filed a new corporation just for himself in Rhode Island in late 2004 and named it Amsouth Investment Corp...  not accusing...just found it as part of new corporate filings...

the scheme at AmSouth for which the bank ended up in court  involved Panamanian and Nicaraugan banks...one of the indicted was a Robert Picou - a Panamanian who is said to be in hiding in Nicarauga or Panama

The scheme further involved a Jackson, Mississippi securities trader and a Memphis lawyer...and Clinton, Mississippi is a suburb of Jackson...it is where Dave Holloway lives and from which Beth and Jug Twitty (Tom's twin brother) moved to Birmingham...just too many coincidences for me....

if Tom hid money for himself and the Panama and Nicarauga "businessmen" wanted their money back maybe they needed a way to "force" the issue?? makes ya go hmmm.... maybe the guy on the plane with Natalee that is missing???  they've never given his name?  cause it might come up in connection with the SEC cases??

or the Twitty brothers could have been innocently involved and testified about the scheme and this could be revenge against them...

i agree that everyone is innocent until proven guilty...and this is one weird case

Cancun is not what I would characterize as a safe vacation for an unchaperoned high school student, recently graduated or not.

Thank you for that picture..

In the Fox report today his lawyer said that he was arrested because he received an email from Deepak the night of Natalee's disappearance. Considering how little (or no) evidence they have on Joran and the Kalpoes. (and theyre still being held) I doubt they had anything at all on Croes. :shock:

But you won't see Joran there til he is 37.