Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/candleman2justice2007.jpg)

Morning San  :P

Hi Angie,

how ya feeling?

I saw that. must  be your week.

OS

Hey Angie, I hope you are feeling better !!! Tell that whinymom you are too sick to put up with her NOSINESS, doesn't she have anything more important to do with her day?

Good Morning Angie.

lol   feeling the same.
oh well.. IF i were to post at RU... which I certainly have no plans on doing.. I would use my screename here.
Must have scared everyone away.. lol

LOL  Guess not?  I see shes been deactivated.. tsl tsk tsk
Oh well.. had a nice time getting out yesterday... :P

I wasn't able to post yesterday, but late last night I was reading some of the thread and did not get a good feeling.

So...am I right in assuming that Lorenzo has been released due to some type of 'mediation' (translated - plea deal)?

Even if the Dutch uncover anything significant it doesn't mean Aruba is required to act on it?

The TES search has been pushed out til October?

If I understand everything from yesterday, this ain't soundin' so good.

good for you Angie, did you notice our avi's are unsquished again? THANK YOU DUGGA  :D

After catching up reading some last night and this morning.. I kind of got the same impression ? Not sounding good.

Morning Minkeys.  I can't possibly catch up on the last 5 or 6 days of posts.  Has there been NO word on anything going on in Aruba?  



p.s.  I read on the last thread about Dutch involvement in world affairs.  I'm not that familiar with any of it, although it was interesting to read some of the debate.  I will add, however, that the Dutch sent soldiers to help us during Katrina.  

I see we arnt dwarfs anymore.. lol  I am kind of too big now though?  :lol: :lol:
Thanks Dugga.  :cool:

Mornin' Angie!

Dest

my what big ears you have ROFL  :lol:

Hi Destiny..
 Wow.. I read your posts about calling Aruba in regards to lorenzo.. I would have been skeeered. 
Kudos to you!

Hi Destiny ! Is that kitty tongue sticking out at us or at Aruba?  :lol:

I have to run back to work, hi-ho !

ROFLMAO !!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good morning all!

Have a good day.. I need to get going to.. have a few things I need to do.. and some phonecalls to make..  :-?

Have a good day everyone  :P

I brought this over from the last thread cause I wanted to comment on it.
Good morning Monkeys
wreck
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 840



   Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/5/2007
« Reply #955 on: Today at 09:25:57 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Rammstein on Today at 09:12:40 AM
Quote from: nonesuche on Today at 08:16:46 AM
Good Morning everyone-

This has been my fear for two years frankly, for Holland simply isn't a country that seems to give a flip regarding anything external to their country or their outposts in the Antilles. They don't give a flip about Saddam or Oosama, why would they care about one murder? I don't mean to minimalize Natalee in any way but sadly, I believe anything and all that has been done to date was for tourism's sake. No other reason.


I am sorry but that is nonsense. We don't give a flip about Saddam or Osama? Right, tell that to the parents/famlly of Tom Krist, Jos Leunissen, Timo Smeehuijzen, Cor Stirk, Robert Donkers, Dijkstra, Michael Donkervoort, Jan van Twist, Bart van Boxtel, Dave Steensma and  Jeroen Severs, dutch men who laid down their lives for the cause in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Tell that to the dutch troops who served in Iraq (like my brother in law), tell the dutch troops who now serve in Afghanistan, tell that to the dutch special forces hunting Osama in the hills of Afghanistan or our army/navy/airforce around the world fighting the war on Terror.

And FYI, the internal problems of Aruba are not something the Netherlands (because there is no Holland) can fix or alter.
Thank-you for that. It seems people are a little gloomy this morning. There are still a few of us here that do think the Dutch are going to solve this -- we just have to be patient. After 2+ years, they cannot come in and simply wrap things up in a few months. They must do everything 100% accurate and get things right. It is very hard to follow this case and not be frustrated -- I certainly understand the pessimism here.
Smish:
I want to ask Ramm,why did the Aruban's ask the Dutch investigators into the case if nothing they find,do or say will have any bearings on this case?What was the point of bringing them in?

Destiny called KIA yesterday and found out that Lorenzo was released from prison.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1972.msg263034#msg263034

Good Morning NYC....an all the rest of the swinging Monkeys!

Dest...have been out of the room...bk now for a bit

Is everyone in chat? off to water some plants...bk in a few mins.  or, did everyone put me on ignore.....ohhhhhhhhh  nooooooooooo...

Good morning Monkeys!  :)

In a country where you can be held for 160 days just on suspicion, this is not a good sign.  Maybe he claimed that it was his cousin's house, he was rarely there and didn't know what was going on.   :smt090

Goog Morning Shadow!

Dest

Morning Destiny! Can't belive you just called KIA. Way to go. Did they say anything other than he had been released?

Good Morning Monks.....we are back from a wonderful trip to Jamaica! We met a lovely young couple from HOLLAND!  Hes, Ram there is a Holland!  I wore my TES/Aruba/Natalee Holloway tee-shirt ALL the time!! The couple was at the pool and came over and asked me why I was wearing the Tee-shirt....I explained WHY!  They told us a lot about Holland and the way their family and friends felt about not only Aruba....(they think it is a very corrupt place)....and of course they knew about Natalee....and said that all their family and friends were in agreement that YES...the axxhole killed her.....his book is as they put it, TRASH......I asked why they came to Jamaica and not Aruba....they said that they would never go to aruba because of the moralistic attitude of the ISLAND....and it is evidently a well known attitude in HOLLAND..several of their friends had gone on holiday to aruba and came back with 'horror' stories (their words, not mine)...when I asked what kind of stories they mentioned the lack of morals (several had seen sex on the beach, the open drugs....the hard stuff and particularly the locals hitting on women EVERY PLACE, ...even when accompanied by husbands and/or boyfriends..people being 'stalked' by locals, women being groped......I had many people stop me to talk about Natalee (the T-- drew a lot of attention)...many wanting to know if there is anything new...and noting the lack of recent media coverage ....or ask questions about TES..several asked why the FBI didn't 'do something'....I tried to explain as much as I knew and could....they all agreed...it STUNK   I gave out SM's wesite address to about 20 people...We enjoyed this young couple and they gave me a bit of a different perspective of people from Holland....we talked about culture, education, medical, employment and unemployment ....we were the first Americans they had ever meet...and they were the first Dutch people we had met....my perspective were from those involved with Natalee's murder on the internet.. :shock:..I was so happy to learn that these internet freaks are the exception and not the norm.

WOW...way to go Destiny....so he's out, huh...just like the sporter...a private 'talk' with the judge and you can get out of jail in aruba....do I hear  a loud cha-ching??  $$$$$$'s

Hi Shadow!

Yes everyone that was arrested in the bust has been let go except for Ramon, who is being held on gun/weapons charges...actually the person I spoke with was very helpful, when I asked if Lorenzo was still on Aruba, he said yes, and that L was back home...fancy that, back home...One thing he did specify was that L was Dutch not Aruban...funny when I called the Jail b4 the second call to the other place, corrections inst, the person at the jail said the same thing to me...he is Dutch not Aruban...I don't know what that means...

Dest

Wow . . . very interesting!

Sunny - wow, sounds like a great vacation and very interresting!

GREAT post Sunny!!!  Thank You!

Gives me a lot to think about. You are a very caring person to spread the word on their turf so to speak ;-)

Dest

Thanks Klaas...it was a great vaca/birthday trip....I have an idea running around in my head about the shirt....(it drew so much attenetion and was the catalyst for all the discussions)....I know the t-- was no longer being printed...that's the reason I took mine off and gave it to Dave at the golf tourney......but I am thinking TES needs to offer that shirt again.....I want to check with Red and Tim and see what they think...it sure drew a LOT of attention to Natalee and TES

Sunny - great idea!  I agree, Tim should offer that shirt again or something similar.

I know exactly what you mean Sunny...I was told, don't know if it's true, but that there was a private mediation with a Judge, there would bo no court date.  WTF???

Dest....ps, sounds like you and hubby had a Wonderful vacation ;-)

thanks......I was so glad I took that shirt....and I was very pleased to be able to speak to and pal around with this young couple....they were alone and we were a party of 8...so we asked them to join us and they did....I did metion that from time to time we have articles written in dutch that we want translated and they said they would help in any way they could. I hope (and think) they were serious.

This sounds very much like "The Judge was paid off"

I do too....especially for those of us that vacation anyplace in the Caribbean....everyone in our group wished the had one.....there were also a number of Jamaicans who came up and talked to us after seeing the shirt....it drew a lot of attention

I wonder how many Dutch people are in jail on Aruba?  Maybe the Dutch have something similar to our 'diplomatic immunity' policy.  In other words, you can't convict the Dutch of any crimes commited in Aruba.

Wouldn't you love to know if this is one of the judge's we already know....corruption is aruba's FIRST name...


ps...we did...thanks

uuummmmm that's an interesting thought....I hope one of our super smart monkey's can get the answer to that one.

Did I see Lala's lurking??  :D I've been doing a little tango in the ballroom.  :)

Good Day Monkeys  :smt052

Way to go Destiny...
To Lorenzo is NOT being detained.?

http://www.amigoe.com/english/
Aruba key figure in biggest drug seize ever in Senegal  

Peter de Witte 

ORANGJESTAD/RUFISQUE – The biggest drug seize by the Senegalese police in June of this year was linked to a ship or plane from Aruba. This is what the authorities of the West-African country told a journalist of the press agency Reuters. The Aruban police have in the meantime been updated about this piece of news and are now requesting more information internationally.   

It has now come to the attention that almost a month and a half ago the Senegalese police found 2.5 tons of cocaine in an abandoned sailing yacht off the coast of one of the country’s popular tourist destinations. The yacht, which most probably encountered engine problems, floated around with fifty bags of cocaine. They suspect it to be the biggest drug seize in the country ever.

At around the same time of the discovery of the yacht, the paramilitary police of Senegal with help from the United States, France and neighboring countries, exposed an international drugs syndicate. The narcotic suspects, who were in the possession of weapons and navigation equipment, originate from Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and France.

After the arrest, the Senegalese detective force was soon able to establish how the three drug producing countries Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador were able to transport their goods to the West African country: through a stop-over on Aruba. The drugs would’ve apparently been brought in through a ship or boat and then transported to a cargo ship heading for the African continent. Just off the coast of Cape Verdi, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau and Gambia, small sailing boats picked up the cargo and smuggled it onto the mainland.

The chief commissioner Peter de Witte was only informed about Aruba’s involvement in the matter yesterday. “We have exchanged information with the corps in the Caribbean region, but it has not as yet given us clarity. Now we are trying to contact the United Nations in order to obtain more information.”   

 De Witte finds it unlikely that the drugs came into Aruba by plane. “We’re talking about more than two tons, but I don’t want to rule out anything.” According to him it’s also possible that the plane in which the cocaine was transported to Africa never landed on Aruba. It has happened before.

“The boat could’ve sailed past Aruba, but the log book does state that it moored here. It is also possible that the boat did in fact lie in the harbor, but that the drugs only came on board the ship heading for Africa on international waters. Aruba would then be noted down as the last port of call.” According to the chief commissioner, the portrayal of Aruba as a transit port would then take a different turn. “But these are still just theories, we must first obtain more information.” 

The countries off the West African coast have to deal with the hindrance of drug trafficking. The region is the nearest point on the continent to the Latin-American producers, and is not that far off from their European consumers. Due to the weak economy and the fact that the police, customs and other authorities are mostly underpaid, the infrastructure in the African region offers an extremely attractive destination for drug traffickers. Especially Senegal, which lies at the most western point of Africa, offers a good transit port for cocaine coming from South America. The country pulls all its forces together to combat the drug cartels who usually have more advanced and better weapons. By working together with other countries, the government hopes to stand strong against the smugglers.

The 2.5 tons of cocaine found in June has been burnt during the course of last week. The drugs had a market value of more than 300 million dollars, around 537 million florins.

The 2.5 tons of cocaine found in June has been burnt during the course of last week. The drugs had a market value of more than 300 million dollars, around 537 million florins.

How do they burn 2.5 tons of cocaine....wonder if there was a coke warning last week on the island?  Maybe Lorenzo did some community service.... :P

LOL - I don't think the cocaine was confiscated in Aruba :wink:

2NJ -Did you see this that I posted for you last night?   :lol:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/MonkeyIroning.gif)

The chief commissioner Peter de Witte was only informed about Aruba’s involvement in the matter yesterday. “We have exchanged information with the corps in the Caribbean region, but it has not as yet given us clarity. Now we are trying to contact the United Nations in order to obtain more information.”   

 De Witte finds it unlikely that the drugs came into Aruba by plane. “We’re talking about more than two tons, but I don’t want to rule out anything.” According to him it’s also possible that the plane in which the cocaine was transported to Africa never landed on Aruba. It has happened before.

“The boat could’ve sailed past Aruba, but the log book does state that it moored here. It is also possible that the boat did in fact lie in the harbor, but that the drugs only came on board the ship heading for Africa on international waters. Aruba would then be noted down as the last port of call.” According to the chief commissioner, the portrayal of Aruba as a transit port would then take a different turn. “But these are still just theories, we must first obtain more information.” 

Setting the stage for what will eventually be his 'findings'

Why is it so hard for Peter de Witte to accept the fact that the drugs came on board the ship in Aruba.

Because they are still trying to dispel this:

http://www.americandaily.com/article/8673

Aruba: A Drug Trafficker's Paradise
By Jim Kouri CPP (08/10/05)

Yes, thank you.  I saw it this morning when I read back & saved it for an ironing day. LOL.  (I also have my Picasso 'Woman Ironing' & she looks like I feel about it)

As for the cocaine seizure not being on Aruba....I had thought about that, but the mention of florins made me think I had missed something in June.  Either way, the air quality must have been 'high' when they burned all of that coke.

I am not understanding the Lorenzo thing. Will there be no charges ?
It looked as if they had him cold with those plants and money.
I certanily can understand releasing him pending court, they just can't keep people for long periods of time same as here in North America.

[/size]

Ms Toady here, shaking the sack. Hunting snipe, be vewwy vewwy quiet.

Harken back to when Guido was last arrested in Hulandia. (That's er, Papiamento for, er, Nederlands) Some things were taken from his place by ALE, computer & whatnot, including some car part. Does anyone know what part? What car it was from?[/b][/color]

No court date either for LVR?? :smt075 :shock:

lol

http://www.vickdogchewtoy.com/

Lorenzo was arrested on Marijuana charges (maybe more but we don't know).  He was placed in KIA.  His attorney argued successfully that Lorenzo be released from KIA until his case goes to trial.  Sort of like being released on bail.  So...Lorenzo was released from KIA on July 25, 2007 and is awaiting his trial date.

GrannyToad - I'll see if I can find that.  I remember his ATV but off hand don't remember a car part.  Will see if I can find it.

Well releasing him seems ok then as long as there are charges to be dealt with later. We have bail systems here and only people who have done the most atrocious crimes are not up for bail. If it were here in Canada, he would have been released with a court date. Plus maybe some conditions.   

Thats the first I have heard about a car part..Wonder why he would have that months later in holland?

Someone asked about that mediation thing & vRijn having been released, another suggested a judge was paid off.

Napoleonic code so far as I've found still allows for cash payout over doing the time, at the judge (or panel of judges)'s discretion.

A certain baseball player banished to Aruba's penal colony (the US) except for Christmas week, and a fine, sound familiar?

So yeah, I've little doubt that the suspects could be held liable for Natalee's disappearance and get fined a buck-fifty each and be done with it.  

I think it means so court date set YET.  Does not mean he will never go to court.

Quote from Nonesuch


Well the Netherlands is not as large as the US or the UK (so putting our troop numbers with the US ones is a non-starter to begin with). And as for Australia, our troop numbers in the war on terror have been close to the Aussie ones. At the moment Australia has even less troops on the ground in the region as the Netherlands has.

And it is not only a personal slam at me and my family but also to the death dutch soldiers who died with valor fighting for the right thing in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And I am very sorry to hear that your husband died because of what happened to him in Iraq, very sorry because I wish all of them would still be alive (all US soldiers and all innocent victims of the war).

The open police was years ago, our asylum laws are strict now but fair. And there is some issue with islamist extremists here but when 1/10 of your population is of a certain faith then there will always be extreme individuals among them. But rest assured, the government knows who they are and knows what they are doing.

And I can take people being critical of things in my country, but that is the point, critical of "particular issues" which can be discussed. And our country is as toughened up as we want/need to be (according to our people as chosen in a democratic fashion).

And I will try to ignore you as best I can but I cannot promise you I will never comment on something you say, but as said, I will try my utmost.

Quote Easywriter:


If he was born in any part of the Kingdom then yes, he is a Dutch National.

Quote from San:

I meant the general problems of Aruba cannot be fixed by the Netherlands. This case the Dutch agreed to take responsibility of the case and I guess they got some assurances. And if the DA decides against the prosecution when plenty of evidence exists then it must be known that at some point the family of a victim can demand the case files for review and far before that would happen there would be a convenient "leak/rumor" to someone like Peter R. de Vries or people like him.

If Lorenzo was indeed released it would not be as part of a mediation. Suspect who are not a flight risk, not a risk with regard to security and who are not longer needed for daily questioning by the police are released until their trial date.

A suspect will also be released if the likely jail-term he will have to serve is lower than the amount of time he would be in pre-trail incarceration. So for example if the likely punishment is 3 months and the suspect would have to be in jail for 5 months until the trial was held and finalized he would have served longer than the likely punishment and thus he will be released to await trial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t36i5gvBu1s
Carpe is just way too cool... :lol:

at the moment dutch armed forces personnel is stationed in:

Aruba
Curacao
Afghanistan (past and present)
Iraq (past and present)
Congo
Burundi
Lebanon

in the past the dutch have served in 48 international missions (EU and UN).

And yes, we were also there after Katrina with water purifying materials, aid packages and help on the ground (choppers, marines) but that was nothing IMHO. If you are in the region and a trusted ally has this happen to them then you would be a bad country and a bad ally if you did not respond to help.

I just hope our Dutch water-management engineers can help keep the area safe from new floods.

Maybe they bugged Lorenzo's house too!

Thats interesting..I have a hard time believing that they were allowed to enter the VDS property again last month unless she meant the search months ago. I guess its possible they bugged another location if she meant july 2007.

 :P

well. let's make sure joran doesn't find out

I don't think it's being announced, it's like Geraldo reporting it only it's a person in the Netherlands.  Personally, I take it with a grain of salt. :wink:

with the fixing of the problems I was talking more generally, in this investigation the Dutch have demanded full say in the case with regard to the investigation. In other words the DA might formally be the head of the investigation but now the Dutch have demanded full say with regards to the investigation. Non prosecution if there is a case to be prosecuted would not be acceptable to the Dutch government and although we cannot force them to do it, we can make it very difficult for the Aruban government (when it comes to getting money for law enforcement etc. and other funding issues).

Maybe get them all house boats like they do in Amsterdam.

Here you go Granny:

Source: Fox - On the Record
Date: May 24, 2006

Tito Lacle said they took the following things from Guidos home today in Aruba.

Documents, computer and something called a quad racer. Tito also mentioned an odd piece of a vehicle. What he said was anything that might have a connection.

Tito said that Karin Jansen is not talking to anyone!

I can tell you this, even I don't like the Dutch posting on Refugees, being critical of someone is one thing, the hate campaign they have against Beth is sickening.

Hiya Monkeys.. Just able to stick my head in... I had internet/router/modem prblems today, finally fixed them.  What a way to start Monday....

Going back to read & catch up.

Interesting post from the FP - Bugs huh?  Sounds like everybody knew (Or knows now)  I don't quite know about this - sounds fishy

That is awesome! 

Is it running excruciatingly slow for anyone else, or is it just my connection?

Just like we lock up Aruban Dutch, they lock up European Dutch. Actually as there is no Aruban nationality, all citizens born in the Kingdom are Dutch, it does not matter where in the Kingdom they were born.

Peter de Witte most likely really wants to find out. In part because as boss of the Coast guard they hunted down (and impounded a lot of drugs) drugs-smugglers (together for example with the US).

Ever wonder if it was a tire iron (heavy Battery).

mediation and the "wet Mulder" (paying fines instead of going to trial for lesser crimes and misdemeanors) is only possible if a person is charged with a crime. As long as Lorenzo is still only being investigated there is no place for mediation (not that this would be possible because in a mediation the judge is a mediator between to private parties, not between the DA and a suspect) and no fines for no prosecution.

Also (I will check to be absolutely sure), but a judge does not get involved when a suspect given a fine instead of a court date, that decision lies with the prosecutor.

Good thinking San :shock:

The investigation is just underway, the DA will still have to decide whether or not she will prosecute and what the most serious offense is that she can charge him with.

that is possible, a DA can request from an investigating judge to allow this.

No you're not the only one,mine is slow too.I even restared the computer but it's not much better.

The people of Aruba frequently make the distinction between those born on the island and Dutch nationals born in the Netherlands.  There may not be a technical difference yet, but there is definitely a social division.

I just did the same and it did help mine.  It had crawled to a stop before I did that.

I agree. Most likely because some of the Dutch that live there are the wealthy kind, the adventurous kind or the highly educated kind. With an island that small that will inevitably lead to issues and problems between the islanders and the outsiders.

I may have spoken too soon. lol

Ramm - can you search around some Dutch blogs and see if you can find this? 

I wonder how many Americans live and work in Aruba?  We only know a few through the news and the internet, but .......

I had huge problems with internet explorer yesterday..It got to the point where it just froze up but today its working fine...I would try firefox as it maybee a problem with IE.

I will do my best.

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/


hahahahaha  :cool:

I don't have Firefox, but I will check it out.  Thanks

If you could just check Blogs that you are familiar with that would be great!  Thanks!

Isn't a quad racer an ATV?

Truthseeker - yes, a quad racer is an ATV.  ATV = all terrain vehicle

Some context here would be nice. Hopefully this leaked because some cop was just busting to tell someone, anyone that the bugging helped the investigation.

Dilbart @ RU says Dutch journalist was Henk Strootman.

Kalpoes house also bugged.

Cool, thanks!

Henk strootman wrote:

Over de zaak Holloway is trouwens niet veel goeds te melden. De politie heeft nu wel zo’n beetje alles uit de kast gehaald (ook financieel) om de zaak tot klaarheid te brengen, maar het schiet gewoon niet op. Zelfs onorthodoxe middelen hebben niet tot het gewenste resultaat geleid. Voorbeeld. In mei dit jaar verwachtte het team van de KLPD dat student Joran van de Sloot vanuit Nederland voor een weekje naar zijn ouders op Aruba zou afreizen. Onder het mom van een onderzoek in de woning - het echtpaar Van der Sloot moest even weg - werden er door specialisten van de Dienst Specialistische Recherche Toepassingen uit Driebergen afluistermicrofoons geplaatst. Maar helaas, Joran kwam niet naar Aruba en de luistervinken van de KLPD vingen niets op. Later werd een soortgelijke operatie uitgevoerd bij de gebroeders Kalpoe, maar ook dat leverde niets op. De zaak zit momenteel muurvast. Maar Joran staat nog altijd hoog op het lijstje. En dat lijstje is héél kort… 

http://misdaad.aktueel.nu/over_vermissingen_en_missers.html

Blaming the Victim for Jerks
http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/

Does this mean the bugs have been removed?

Yes it is sickening. I just don't get it. And it started very early. On several internet sites.


http://www.rjames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840

10-13-2005, 01:16 PM

Peter van der Vliet
New Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11

Here is a real kick in the private parts that blows mrs. Twitty right out of the water with all her stories, it is from Rita Cosby on the same night as the Dompig interview:

HOLLOWAY: Well, I was only privileged to one of the statements, and that was read to Beth, Jug, myself, along with two attorneys. And of course, it was in Dutch, and the—one of the attorneys interpreted it. And from what I gathered, this tape indicated to me that Natalee was falling asleep, waking back up, falling asleep, waking back up, and that in my opinion, a sexual assault was occurring at the same time.

His opinion was that there was a sexual assault occuring, not the same as what Beth has been claiming all these months.

Beth has put Aruba on the spot for lying, when it seems she is the one who might not be all that truthfull with some of her claims.

Klass...I know you said it was on the front page...but which article?? TY in advance.

Interesting post sharon.. :wink:

Hi Kimmy

Not sure what you are referring to?  Are you talking about Elisabeth's post?  If so Igsigs posted that Dilbart is also repeating the same thing at RU and I provided the Dutch article and link.

Another comment about the bugging...but quoting the original journalist.

Een paar maanden geleden was er een merkwaardige actie op Aruba: huiszoeking bij de familie Van der Sloot en de gebroeders Kalpoe. Ik wilde het toen niet verklappen, om het onderzoek niet in de wielen te rijden, maar het was wel duidelijk dat dit een trucje was om afluisterapparatuur aan te brengen. Joran, verdacht van betrokkenheid bij de vermissing van Natalee Holloway, zou een weekje op Aruba doorbrengen. Helaas, hij kwam niet en alle moeite was vergeefs. Henk Strootman schrijft erover op zijn web-log. En over die andere bekende vermissing, Maddie McCann. Wel zo makkelijk, hoef ik het niet te doen. Henk staat hier

A few months ago there was a remarkable action on Aruba: search at the family Van of the Ditch and the brothers Kalpoe.  I wanted it then do not give away, the investigation not in the wheel to ride, but it was well clear that this a trick was afluisterapparatuur on to bring.  Joran, suspected of involvement by the loss of Natalee Holloway, would spend a week on Aruba.  Unfortunately, he came not and all trouble was in vain.  Henk Strootman writes down about it its web-log.  And over that other known loss, Maddie McCann.  Well so easy, I do not need to do it.  Henk stands here

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/

G'day monkey mates!

It infuriates me that they were able to search Guido's house so thoroughly during his arrest, but not at the Sloot's when they were arrested. It doesn't make any sense to me.  It just proves that the fix was in for the vdS's back then.  Arrrgggghhhhh!!   :-x :-x

Klaas

Didn't Arubanese post something about a relative being in KIA and since she was Dutch, instead of visiting him, they released him.  I believe she relayed that he was guilty and she was surprised, but being Dutch..."opened a lot of doors"...so to speak.

She did post something like that.  I'll find her post.

okay, thanks.

My numbers may not be up to date anymore but last I knew, there were about 1100 Dutch and around 500 Australian troops in Afghanistan.  I appreciate every single one of them and mourn the loss of anyone who stands by our side in this or any war. I will always try to remember those who die for our freedom, wherever in the world they come from, whether they come in large numbers or small, they ALL put their life in harms way so we do not have to.  Whether some governments could do more or not I do not know, but those who have died have done ALL they could and should not be forgotten.

Is it just me, or does this sound a little silly?

Peeps: Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. This rumor also spread on the street. Frankly we were pretty scared about this false accusation. Long story short, the detectives already know about this and have straightened out this false rumor. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto "minding our own business."

DANA: Are you aware of de Vries doing a followup?

JOSSY: Yes, I think he will be doing a followup.

DANA: Is it true that Joran had more than a platonic relationship with Guido.

JOSSY: Yes, there is a statement to that affect. I think it's in Guido's statement.

JOSSY: There is that possibility that Guido is involved.

JOSSY: I have a video tape of Gerald Dompig that they do have sufficient material to bring these boys in on kidnapping and rape. Which would be 8 years imprisonment.

WTH are they waiting for then if they have sufficient? Get them off the street before they do it again.

This person must have been REALLY bored...

http://tinyurl.com/36qj7f

It's a little hard to believe that the Dutch would insist on coming all the way to Aruba to bug the parents' house when Joran is living right in their midst.  I suppose he might be more likely to have detailed conversations with Paulus...but can't they monitor their phone calls?  I'm sure they're not discussing a thing over the wires right now. 

Why is the TES search taking so long to happen?  We were told the end of JUNE!

I don't have any faith in the Dutch and won't until they haul all the parties back in for more extensive and thorough questioning.

maybe the Dutch have told TES she is not in the water


no worries, the Dutch will get them all  :cool:

Maybe Jossy could put the video up on youtube for the world to see.

:2rofl:

I have been sitting here catching up on my reading and thinking just that (silly) since the last page. It's not just silly, it's just plain stupid IMO. Why would anyone make a big production of planting bugs? And then announce it? All it takes is one or two people going in and placing them.   :2doh: 

Oh, by the way, Hi Monkeys! I am new to the cage although I have been reading along for many moons. Unfortunately last week kept me busy and I haven't been able to keep up my reading, but apparently nothing major has happened except LVR was released. I will be catching up. - oldencrabby

oldencrabby - Welcome!

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
And an etra house to do it in...

Right towards the ends  --- where the Laptop comes into view I thought it would hit F5 an refresh the LCD page  :shock:

Hi.. Monkeys

You mean they can actually do that? I thought the suspects had to volunteer to go back in to talk.

The Dutch Police ....
Are they like  our State Police of the FBI  or US Marshals
TIA

oldencrabby...Welcome from me too!

Destiny

this is another good point.  They can bug their house but they cannot question them?   :2brickwall:

think more along the lines of the Keystone Cops  :smt045

Hi Monkeys!

Just got back home a short time ago...played quick catch up reading.  OLDF.  Thanks for egging me on re: the phone calls ;-)

Destiny

Wooooooooo  Hooooooooooooo!!!

Dest

Sure sounds like it.....LOL...double talking all the way....

LOL

pssssssst.  This is an old headline     :lol:

I agree with you on that.....they are sick people...but again every country has those kinda people....I don't read RU....it makes me ill to think there are so many ugly people in one place....

Welcome oldencrabby.  I agree.

I like your name.  Are we related somehow. :lol:

Clinton....Monica told me that first ;-)

Dest

she sure has a big mouth  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

shes a little loose with the lips  

WOW..it sure is.....the first part makes one want to just get pixxed off...the picture of Beth being held up is heartbreaking.....and that's the picture that has kept me here for over 2 years. (not counting the awesome people here of course and the lifelong friends I have made)....it will forever be etched in my heart....no parent should ever have to go through what Beth, Dave and Jug have been through...

WHO DAT???????????

Blah
that is the ALE...

I know local police here  can go to county level, state then FBI (certain cases)  if they ask...

Duuuhhhhhh    I don't know.  You tell me.

Dest ;-)

Have Fun ... gang

BBL


Destiny
I did not egg you on  :wink:.... was suprised that they spoke English

NUT - I don't think it's Joran.  He's nut ugly enough to be Joran, IMO

Both places I called did not speak english at first...I had to ask...then they spoke english...yep bcuz of YOU I made the calls,

Dest

Same here.....I was on this morning and it took forever for a page to laod.....and it's still slow

 :smt102

I have been comparing some pix and you are correct...not Joran.

LMSO AT NUT ugly, LOL! You can delete it if you want...taking up space 4 no reason.

I think the sloots house was bugged from the 1st few days, and paulus knew it hence the "talk" by the pool.Maybe lorenzo turned out to be the "singing card". Ooops sorry.... :2redface:

Right - the guy in your photo looks kindof cute.  Joran never does to me.

heres a cool picture....

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/woodchuck123/dolphin-kisses-dog.jpg)

I agree not joran, but looks similar. Just how many little sloots are there running around that island? :smt077

i think its the killer - joran

Welcome oldencrabby.....

Ask Paulus...the gene smear is pretty shallow.

Dest

there are 1900 regular troops, 250 special forces, a squadron of F-16 and a number of apache gunships in Afghanistan at this moment.

it sure is and has 2 of my favorite things...dogs and dolphins

Yup Joran out smarted judges,prosecuters and police..Everytime they caught him in a lie he would just create a new one even if it conflicted with all the other suspects. Two years later and he still hasnt been questioned again. :2brickwall: :smt075 :smt021

anyone looking for a monkey picture - have at it.


(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/woodchuck123/gorilla-thinker.jpg)

Stupid internet!  :-x  I have been having really slow internet connections these last few days and I crab at the King Crab and he just tells me "everyone is complaining" nothing I can do!  At least we can get DSL, a lot of folks in these parts can't even get DSL, so I guess I should be thankful for that.  :wink:

I had a post almost finished thanking everyone for throwing out the welcome mat and poof there it went - lost in space!  I just hate it when that happens. Anywho - thank you, I hope that I will be worthy of the honor of being a Monkey.  :D

thanks.  I knew there has been some build up over the last year or so but didnt know the exact numbers.

Now that's a hunka hunka burnin' love :smt041

Dest :smt044

 :smt042

yes, this is mine. Like I explained in a post that hopefully will be posted by Michelle soon, I am sorry for ever having written it. And I am also sorry for the way I wrote the story on Useless Knowledge.

I let anger at mr. Mannama get the better of me and I posted this and the Useless Knowledge piece in relative anger and misguided patriotism to a part of the Kingdom that clearly deserves no such defense (I came to my senses for a lot of things regarding Aruba after I had written this post).

I will not deny having written it, I am not proud of it, actually I am pretty appalled at myself for having written in it.

I wrote something I shouldn't have and I apologize for having done so. I cannot undo what I wrote and I would not want to because it is a reminder as to how far my opinion has changed in those 2 years. That person from almost 2 years ago was a lot more ignorant to what had happened on Aruba and to what the facts were then the person that I am now.

I have translated and read, I have investigated and observed and I now know I was wrong to write it.

I did something unkind to Beth when I should have given her more understanding. She was doing this out of love and because I only got the words and not the images (I don't get US television and at that time there was a lot less you tube video's about the case). Words in print can come across very differently then words spoken out of love and I did not give Beth Holloway the leeway and the respect she deserved, and for that I am also sorry.

That is all I can say for that remark that I made almost 2 years ago.

uuhhhhhhhhhh   You have one little blue ball?
What is that thingie.

Dest ;-)

Since PvdS's law practice now focuses mainly on administrative law and mediation...(as per Carlo's law site) you can bet your sweet booty who went into mediation with Lorenzo....hehe.

yeah but it can laugh, thats got to count for something!!

 :smt045

Over de zaak Holloway is trouwens niet veel goeds te melden. De politie heeft nu wel zo’n beetje alles uit de kast gehaald (ook financieel) om de zaak tot klaarheid te brengen, maar het schiet gewoon niet op. Zelfs onorthodoxe middelen hebben niet tot het gewenste resultaat geleid. Voorbeeld. In mei dit jaar verwachtte het team van de KLPD dat student Joran van de Sloot vanuit Nederland voor een weekje naar zijn ouders op Aruba zou afreizen. Onder het mom van een onderzoek in de woning  - het echtpaar Van der Sloot moest even weg - werden er door specialisten van de Dienst Specialistische Recherche Toepassingen uit Driebergen afluistermicrofoons geplaatst. Maar helaas, Joran kwam niet naar Aruba en de luistervinken van de KLPD vingen niets op. Later werd een soortgelijke operatie uitgevoerd bij de gebroeders Kalpoe, maar ook dat leverde niets op. De zaak zit momenteel muurvast. Maar Joran staat nog altijd hoog op het lijstje. En dat lijstje is héél kort…
04-08-2007 11:12 | Henk Strootman


About the case Holloway there isn't a lot of good things to report. The police has just about did all it can (even financially) to get this case solved, but it is just not moving foward. Even un-orthodox means did not get the result they had hoped for.
Example: In May of this year the KLPD expected that Joran would be flying out to his parents for a week from the Netherlands. While they pretended to search the house = during which the van der Sloots had to leave the house for a while - specialists of the Department for Specialist Detecting Solutions was planting listening devices in the house. But unfortunately Joran did not fly out to Aruba and the listening ears of the KLPD were left with no results. Later a similar thing was done at the home of the Kalpoe brothers but that too lead to no new information. The case is as stuck as stuck can be. But Joran is still high on the list of suspects, a very short list.

Ramm - thank you for your previous post and thanks for translating this.  What do you think of this person who wrote this?

Going over my notes I took while on the 2nd. call, I was told that Lorenzo was moved from the jail to the corrections inst., he and the others spent one week there.  They were moved on a weekend/per the 1st. phone call. Then per the 2nd. call, BTW was like 10 mins long, that there was private mediation, I specifically asked about a trial, the person speaking with me, and I could hear him typing on his computer keyboard as he said "wait a minute, I'm looking on the computer for you", then he stated shuffling papers, he said NO TRIAL...I said, "then it's all done?", and he said YES ALL DONE. Bcuz of the private meeting with the Judge.

He did sound very sincere, and almost happy that someone wanted his opinion and information he gave to me.  I did identify myself as calling from the US.

Dest.

Indeed Ramm...thank you especially for your honesty. That is what has been lacking for so long in this case. If more could stand up and admit they were wrong and move on to help the real VICTIMS in this tragedy, then things could move forward much easier. Again, we thank you for that and for all your help.

What a complete LOAD.  We have seen the transcripts of (some of) their interrogations.  It is very clear these interrogations were coducted in such a way as to avoid finding the truth.

We have seen their failures to support searches or collect evidence even when handed to them on a silver platter.

We have seen their failure to act within the most critical first 48 hours of Natalee going missing.

We have seen their refusal to involve the FBI in interrogations and searches.

We have seen these idiots spin the results of the Skeeters tape into the suspects favor (as if it isnt obvious to a deaf man that they are lying about what is on that tape and what was said by the NFI)

We have seen them send out idiot after idiot on TV to lie and spin and spread misinformation.  All part of the "special task force" to protect tourism and hide the truth.

The truth is the police have done just about all it can (even financially) to cover up this crime and attack the victim and her family. 

Blah - Don't get too upset by that Dutch blog.  It's only a blog, not anything official.

Does anyone think that Lorenzo
secured his release by providing
pertinent info about Natalee's case?

I don't fault you for being patriotic.  I'm glad you explored your options and came to a different conclucion.  Thanks for explaining your post, even though it wasn't necessary, imo.

oh thanks, i thought this was some sort of news article

they say there was pineapple in the little girl's stomach

well, where is the pineapple can?

did  a 6 year old open the can by herself ???  in the night ???

huh ???did she ??


naww..... where is the darn can ?????



opppps, wrong thread




 :-x

i think Ramm is good

very good

and wise

Hi SPY ;-)

Dest  btw, what thread/case is that?

That would be GREAT!

hi destiny  :cool:
ramsey case

NOPE!

I have my own personal thoughts on why he was in jail..some being so his home could be cleaned very well, while he was sitting on *minor* charges until his going home on July 25th. JMOO

Dest...BTW, Klaas is my avi too big?

odd piece of  vehicle ??


bumper  .. is not odd

seat is not odd


BUT, something in the truck is ODD  :cool:

 i meant TRUNK

 :2doh:

Hi GT,

I may be off base here but I think I remember something I read regarding this subject, and that it was a car bumper.  Couldn't find it to save my soul if I even tried, but that is what I remember.

Dest.

No, it's not too big..I like it!

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

well, apparently in Aruba, all you have to do is lie to the police until they let you go.  I suspect this is what he did.

Hello all!! reading backwards again..lol...is this new news or old news?

No..I dont think Lorenzo is saying anything...Hey J$N join us in chat!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=chat

a blood soaked headliner might be considered odd by some.

thats what im thinking

from the trunk

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 :cool:

Old as the hills....I just didn't know and got over excited...be still my beating heart ;-)

Dest

 :cool:

settle down, we dont want you to hurt yourself  :wink:

lol got me all excited too!!

ot...is Easy here? I can't get on to his blog anymore!!  :2doh:any hints?

the best thing of all,

when i lite my cigar after seeing the SWEAT MONSTER ARRESTED

i can taste it  :cool:

no comment


 :lol: :lol:

Thank you, Rammstein.

Eindhoven, Noord-Brabant is up very early (3am over there) and very interested in this thread  :cool:

EASY is in the chat room.  His blog is currently shut down.

the cigar that is........

 :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

He shut it down for a while...too busy and stuff. Will be back at later date.

Eindhovenaren are a bunch of Northerners from my perspective.

 :smt028

some of my little "face guys" are not workin

no big deal, im just spoutin off  :cool:

it appears as though the CHAT is well liked

i cant keep up, im 96 years old


im avoiding it like the plague  :cool: :lol:

where in the heck is this chat place?

top of the page, where it says "CHAT"

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

Scroll up to the top there is a button for Chat.  Only registered members of SM can be in there.

It's driving me nuts though because I have to be in too many places at once, LOL  :lol:

Ramm,

First, thank You for your honest post earlier, I do wish more Folks had an open mind, and I do not mean the kind of open where the brains fall out ;-)

Second, what do you mean by this post/reply?

TIA  Dest

LOL,

some of them need a spankin ???

 :cool:

We might need to discuss that case sometime  :wink: ~ I think so other monkey is also interested in it.......

Destiny...stroking a cold metal forehead, Don't worry Robots/SPY...chat doesn't like my either...I'll be here widga K?

Dest

i see where it says everyone who is in there but there is no button.  Oh well, too tired tonight to look around in there anyhow

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=chat

Evening monkeys.  I see chat rules again tonight....sigh. 

It's killing me, lol  :lol:

Peekin/ Popping back in...
 
I want to my tip my hat to Rammstein

And want to go "On the Record" as saying if I have ever said anything negative about the people (as a collective) of the Netherlands.. as a result of Natalee's case.  I  regret doing it because of the fact it is not their problem (as far as I can tell) and should not be held accountable for the actions of Aruba.

From a political point (which I know  Nothing about.) how does Aruba compare to some of the U.S. Territory's.  Voting rights, Laws, economic interests etc.

And Yes I have bad mouthed the people of Aruba (as a collective) and will continue to do so until someone / anyone can tell me why the  PV statements that are available on the internet have NOT appeared in print  in some local/regional  newpaper.

You can NOT bias a jury pool if Justice is not decided by a Jury of the people.

JMO   
OldFart

 :wink:

us in here are workin on the case.....we ar enot gabbing away  :lol: :lol:

Hi Lala's....big empty room we have here....wanna roller blade?

Dest ;-)

ok I went in there.  Its a little weird and you cant see what half the people are saying.  Maybe i'm just too tired  :lol:

yeah working on the case, thats it  :wink:

And I still hate it....

'

chat sucks....

its a zoo.....

actually i was in there the other night for a few minutes and it was fun,

but i cant keep up  :2doh:

 :smt112

 :cool:

I agree :lol:

Yeah, you have to go into your options in chat and change the setting.  It can take a while to understand all the setting.  Mostly off topic discussions in there anyway.

JMO .
But  MGMT  needs to seek out and explore new worlds to find canidates for Chat - Hall Monitors..
As I said ... JMO --- I sure do not want  any Monkey Melt Downs to occur.

I agree Mrs. Red...It reminds me of a cage stuffed with parrots at a pet store ;-)
I can't get a beak in edgewisw.

Dest

From where I live it is about 50 or 55 miles due north to get to Eindhoven, hence from my town Eindhoven is Northerly and it´s inhabitants Northerners.

In some city´s they would call Eindhovenaren "Gloeilampen" (light bulbs due to the link with Philips) and in mardi gras time they call themselves "Lampegat" (whole in which to insert a light bulb).

Sure. Let's go! 

Nice post Ramm... glad that you have thought it through.  I suspect that at one time or another we have all been guilt of something similar..

they should all be adults... but if meltdowns start happening... chat won't :-?

when im in the chat i feel like im in a trash compactor and thats not good for robots

ok, well uh  I looked in that chat for 5 or 10 minutes and uhhh  yeah

I agree with y'all

Hey, I just noticed a little thing in the lower right hand corner of my screen that says report to moderator.  What if we want to report to someone else...I am afraid on the mod with the guns.  She might get carried away with her bazookas again.  RES (Where is Dugga?? I still have a bone to pick with him.) RES

and I had to turn my dam speakers off too

so should i read back past the last few pages??? did we discuss anything today?


yesterday's conversation was very interesting... gave me lots to ponder...

they are not printed in print because that would be bad for the case. Witness statements and suspect statements are to be used in court only. Making them available during the investigation could be seen as hindering the investigation and might even lead to prosecution of said newspapers.

Also it might have legal repercussions for the papers with regards to civil suits etc.

It is not 100% sure but from what I gather it could even weaken their status as evidence and endanger the case.

email him at dugga@scaredmonkeys.com  ..... that report works... some monkeys reported a post in the missing persons thread...

blah... that picture in the political thread... is too funny...

OMG, I forgot about the sound.  I always have my speakers off.  I cannot imagine how bad it would be with the sound too!  :lol:

nothing really

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Dest

I guess it's good if you like it... but I hope the monkeys remember nothing said in there is private... it's viewable...

Ok...
This is a test....
I get Dizzy,   More corn-fused  than ever in Chat...


 go to Chat...
Then 1st thing at the top  there is somehing that say LCD discussion (I think) with a  check mark type scroll at the right side of it...
Click it and Look for some something Called SlowMonkey Chatter

 :lol: :lol:

so if we don't go int chat are we chopped liver???? :shock:

which one, the Hillary one??

I think dugga did that so people could multitask.... talk off topic there and on topic here???

  yes !!  that face!

Trust me it's bad :lol:

Mrs. Red - I thought you could only get into chat if you were a registered member of SM?  You cannot view it unless you sign in.  So it's only viewable to people signed into chat.

 :lol: :lol:

I have a million of them - some photoshopped, some not.   I should post a new one or two every day

Everytime I go in there they are talking about sex. LOL

OOOOOOOHHHHHH!  Can I tell them? LOL

 :lol: :lol:

imagine 10 pinball machines in a  closet


thats the CHAT SOUND

is that what keeps you going back?

 :lol:

Mrs. RED - why do you think MIP or anyone else not registered at SM can read Chat?  They cannot.

\
please tell me you are kidding.... RES

klaasend... you would know more about that than me..

its definitly alot better out here

 :cool:

I was misinformed...  :shock:

I know what you're saying ~ I've tiptoed in twice since the doors opened ..... I made a u-turn.....it's way too fast for me.   :shock: :-? :sad:

Okay, try this.  You go in there and then I will go in and don't say anything and just watch what happens. LOL Try it. Deal?

klaasend knows more about talking about sex than you do???
 :shock:

i cant think in there...... im always 35 post behind

im 99 years old  :cool:

snipped..


It's killing me, lol  :lol:
[/quote]

And I still hate it....
[/quote]

 :smt112
[/quote]

blah... that picture in the political thread... is too funny...
[/quote]

which one, the Hillary one??

[/quote]  yes !!  that face!
[/quote]

 :lol: :lol:

I have a million of them - some photoshopped, some not.   I should post a new one or two every day
[/quote]

I personally would love that... there are probably a few monkeys that feel differently but I love it!!

Mrs. Red - email me if you can.  I'd like to know who's telling you that.  I know Dugga wouldn't and I don't think Red would.

You have to be a registered member to even get into chat.  You can't read it unless you are signed into SM.

Blah -  :lol:

Mrs. Red - email me and I'll explain

OMG... that came out wrong... about who can and can't read the chats... personally I say don't say anything you don't want repeated... cuz one never knows... the internet as we all know, isn't private...

Heck no ~ we're foie gras.  :lol: :lol: :lol:  :wink:

Thank Ramm...
If that is the Law... so be it... but in todays world... if just does not make since..
You would think he News papers could put a big ole Disclamer of some sort   with and a WARNING to any Judge NOT to READ it.

Not knocking your your system... but  I kinda have an Idea of why the people of Aruba has not had a voice...and complained about much...

I will have to change my way... not bitch about the people of Aruba but the Internet People of Aruba.. that  can see and yet do NOT share with their Blind  brethren

i'll post new ones next time.

Too tored now, see ya;s

I like it!

nite blah

gnight blah  :cool:

I think there is an option to turn off sound in ...Chat...
I know  there is... for I can still listend to my tunes w/o the beeps, bip, bops, bloop sounds

from NY to ARuba, allinclusive stay at HI SunSpree, 4 nights (fklight included) $545 - saw it advertised today

Chat works real well if you just want to talk in little bites, but for real at-length posting of ideas, this is definitely better. I am not 100% comfortable in a true chat room, but sometimes I do like it.

But to be honest, I can't STAND straight blogging like on the Front Page, because there is no way to have a 2-way discourse. I don't think I have ever yet posted on the Front Page in 2 years although I read there sometimes.

that is cheap.... not only that but they are heading into the travel season aren't they??

these kinds of informations could harm the investigation purely by the data involved. Lets say 2 people did a crime together, one got arrested and all his police statements got into the media, the other one could make the evidence linking him to the crime disappear (or even the witnesses).

Or a guilty person could fabricate evidence to blame an arrested innocent person. Lets presume the statements of the 2 security guards got out and the perps (for example joran or his dad) would put incriminating evidence in a place that the security guards mentioned (say they walked a certain route every night and the bloody shirt of Natalee would be hidden in a place they walked by daily.

It makes evidence come into doubt and that is why it is unwise for such information to come out before charges are made.

YOU don't read the front page but occassionally or the comments?

Have no fear OldFart (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/6ae52945.gif) is here

(Sorry... bad take off on the old UnderDog stuff)

That's all the chat I can handle tonight.  Gosh! I think I am dizzy. :shock: :shock:

Ramm
I don't think it matters what is out in the public.  Nothing is going to be done.  Never was, never will. JMO

I thought I was at a carnival and had won something ! !
..
I appreciate having Ramm here. I have been reading and following his posts for a long time, not as long as Granny Toad.
I find him to be logical and analytical. Seems to me that he takes it on the nose for the Dutch sometimes. I do not like everything my government does or even agree with some things they come up with, but, as in the USA, we are a democracy and I have to live with their decisions. I also don't think that everyone on Aruba is bad, just the ones who were involved in this case. The
suspects, the ALE who refused to do the right thing and our friends like Julia, MF, Mark Purcell et al. We have seen the worst Aruba has to offer with that crew.
..
I have no idea what there is for the Dutch to find at this late date. Too much time passed before a competent police force was called in. I believe the KLPD is competent. They have an excellent reputation in Europe. But, as I said, the passing of time is to the advantage of the Sloots and the Kalpoes.

I noticed you made it in ~ glad you could get off the merry-go-round.  :lol: :lol:
Y'all, I'm feeling really old that I can't deal with that chat room.  :-? :-?

Here in Canada, we do not see anything until the case goes to court.
Very much based on the English common law system in most of the country. Quebec follows the same laws as Europe.  

Very cheap. Pre-Natalee, SunSpree was getting $900 - $1000.  They are practically giving it away at these prices.

I guess I will head out to research some more.  I don't like chat either.  Takes away from the family atmosphere in here.  WAHHHHH!

Yeah...upper class chopped liver ;-)

Dest

I went into the chat room, wrote a few pithy lines and my computer froze!  

Completely agree with you.....I guess this is how some folks wanted this thread to be....I'm just confused, and sad about it.  boo hoo.  I feel abandoned.  :sad: :sad: :sad:

Klass...late at night may we shango tango in here...just give it a try maybe?  Anything's better than this ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Dest...huh Mom Please.......

I love the U.S., I do... but I do think that we sometimes have way too much information that gets out... our media is completely out of control... and sometimes the information that is given only serves to harm the cause.... for example when Geraldo gave away the troop information....

that always happens to me... but I don't care

I will tango anytime.  What you want to talk about?

I'm sign on in chat but I just can't keep up.

Klaas or San?  May be needed in Chat.

Bonaire, 7 nights all-inclusive was $645.

I have the chat open, on my screen, but I can't do anything but I can post to the forum.  Hmmm...
   

Lala's,

Grab a few of your posts from that thread...bring em here and let's have a go at it!

Dest

I think they are fighting in chat.  I am staying away. LOL

why???

I think the US Media is out of control also. Our media isn't much better. We seem to be doing copy cat programs.
I do really like Nancy Grace and those kinds of shows. They do bring these types of cases to the public attention, but here doesn't seem to be alot of responsibilty.
When the Anna Nicole Smith thing was unfolding, I was going to TMZ. What an ugly blog. It was like a little secret sin for me and I am glad I got over it. I read some racist comments there that shocked me and I was surprised that in this day and age, people still had those types of opinions.  

Are they throwing banans yet?

Dest ;-)

why are they fighting? Good then we can get rid of it...

I just ran over to see the excitement ~ still can't do it.  Third try that was....no more.  :-|

I just don't care about the celebrities and what they think???  so I don't go to TMZ..... but I do like a lot of other blogs....

The chat is too hard to keep up with folks and call them on their bs, imo.   :wink:

Well, a blow-by-blow might bring us some excitement.  joking, guys...just joking.  :wink: :wink:

here is the thing... we are supposed to be a "family"... and all that so why the hell are ppl fighting in chat? 

Here's one from this morning discussing the 5th suspect.  Kermit thinks it's Paulus, I say it's not. 


The early posters, and I do mean within the first week, did not have the inside info that would have them assist in the cover up.  In fact, the ones I read had little to do with the investigation at all. The only person that could possibly be accused of assisting in the cover up would have been Native Lingo.  She was an insider.  The very earliest comments about parties and drugs involved Lorenzo.  That is what I am going by, not saying it's right, just saying that is what I have observed.  I know there are many that think I am way off base here and that Lorenzo had nothing to do with this at all.  I just think we should explore this as a possible scenario.

Lorenzo was known to throw the parties at his houses.
Lorenzo was the drug dealer of choice on the island.
Lorenzo could have some connection to the Sloots.
Lorenzo was kept out of the loop early on.  When his name began to come up in the beginning it was then quickly shushed into oblivion.
Lorenzo, until recently was the mystery man of the hour.

I can't connect the dots because I am too dumb in that regard.  I wish I could, but I can't. However, Tylergal has long contended that what happened to Natalee happened at the HI.  What she says makes sense too.  The alibi of bringing her back to the HI could have been concocted because they knew she could have been seen there. There is a history of some sort with that place.  She was targeted in their casino.  I could go on, but you get the message.  Both scenarios are highly possile.  Now, we have to find the one that is most probable.

Lala's ~ I hope you're still here ~ I'm putting in a special request for the Shango Tango or whatever you call it.   

I love reading what y'all say ~ please start so I can sit back and watch......pretty please.  :smt026 :smt058

Who knows, I was just repeating what Dihannah was elaborating on.  I think they are playing in there is all. Sorry about the confusion.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU LALA'S!!!

Dest...kiddos...put your little pointy thinking caps on and let's go!

And not many have fought against more bs than you. Welcome windy city!

The basement finally run out of air? tootoot and zoomzoom and all that...?  :lol:

americaninaruba
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RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2005, 08:06:15 AM »
   
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Fox just reported there is another search going on today in a new location, but authorities won't say where.

AmericaninAruba, any news on that?


no I have no confirmation on this, but i would think that it would be the areas of the 2 new detained.  The lorenzo guy like i stated before has a house out in like "woodsy" area....we dont have WOODS here but liek bushy and lots of cactus...he threw "underground parties" their...i would think that would be the area they would search, but again nothing confimed

lol,  The air is thin down there.  That must be the only explaination!   :cool:

americaninaruba
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RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 200the underground parties are parties taht they hand out fliers and text MSG to poeple and throw a party that has not been run by the authorities...most of the time as soon as its 1am the police arrive anyways and shut down the party, unless its in a secluded area that no one calls about the music bothering.....which is the reason he threw these parties at that house that stands alone5, 08:11:11 AM »
   
Quote from: "sarah"
Underground parties--after parties after the bars close down?  Is this common on the island?


No to throw a public party/event here onthe island you need to get the police authorization, so thier is some sort of control, and they can be aware of it....

the chat has a delay that is really prolonged tonight, that is why I think PC's are freezing up but with 20+ monkeys in there that might strain the system a bit  :lol:

Ramm
( I hope I can refer to you this way ... If not please let me know)

No one has a perfect system...  We go thru a lot of chit / expense.. to attempt what we hope will be an Un-biased jury pool...   Even moving the trial.. to different  locations.  but I expect that you know that...

I guess my bottom line question is
If One or a pannel of Judges makes the call and they are  " not influcened  by rumors. new articles"  -- they only go on the facts presented to them in the case files"  how can evidence come into doubt ?

If by chance any true evidance  was made public...would it  a bad thing...
Even if it is fabricaated... you still only have the Judges making the call... not the people.. as a jury

What little I know of The Netherlands, Holland, Dutch  (what is the proper term ) law...
Most of what has been reported in the Media --should not have been
Is this grounds for dismissal of any and all potential charges (charges made for detention)?

Do we pre-judge suspect based upon media reports? ... Yes we do.. 
Are we sometimes wrong in our pre-judgement? ... yes we are
Do we ask questions of the evidence given us  VS the media  reports.?  Yes we do.
Do we make mistakes?  Yes we do

IF... the PV"S that are on the internet are factual... ?? Big Question --I know being factual.
Have you ever wonderd if the people of Aruba could read the Kalpoes PV's from 5/31/05 if they would start asking questions  of those that govern them.?

I do not have the quote handy but on 5/31 they were asked somthing about stopping at the huts / beach.
Where did this queston come from ?  Why no directed search in this area until detainment?

I know YOU do not have the answer so please do not think I am picking on you but you do have what it takes to at least gives us your thoughts on it.
Thanks again..

OldF.

You popped in twice and I was trying to talk to you...  Now I understand what happened... I wanted to tell you that the woman from Project Dead Zone has not answered me (calls and emails) yet except to say she's been too busy to talk...and out of town some  :-?

It's hard to read the print for many chatters -- blue on blue, and I tried to change it--to no avail.

I'm interrupting the shango tango....but help me.....why does chat show I'm there.....unless it's an out of body experience, I know I'm in here.....I've got to get out of there...... :shock: :shock: :shock:

thanks so much Karo!  If anyone wants me to know anything ... chat isnt' the place to tell me...

Chat sucks!  I hate it....  :lol:

Interesting theory here...

sarah
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RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2005, 08:15:12 AM »
   
The brothers dropped Joran and Natalee off at Joran's house after going to the lighthouse.  (this fits Joran's story) Then, Joran takes one of his parents cars and goes to the after party in the woods.  Maybe he drugged her before they left.  Left her in the house in the woods to sleep it off.

FYI - Lala's, did you know that you can go to one of the OLD posts, click the QUOTE button, then copy that and paste it and it will show up as a quote?

I don't buy any theory claiming Natalee died just from drugs...because how then do we explain all the blood in the (a) car.  It seems to me some kind of accident occurred when she was trying to get away--she was hit by the car or hurt trying to escape from it.  Guess those were among the earliest theories, but I still hold it. 

Hey Klaas.  According to you, LOL, the 4th person was Lorenzo and the a5th person was Steve Croes.  I know it's confusing, because I can't keep it straight either.

klaasend
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RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #122 on: June 17, 2005, 08:35:24 AM »
   
Quote from: "TTownMike"
At this moment the thing I find most intriguing is the two references describing the arrestee. !) Son of prom. father 2) Son of suicide victim.  Are these one and the same, or are there perhaps 2?
Inquiring Minds Want toi Know!

2 different people.  Lorenzo that was questioned yesterday and released is the son of the suicide victim.  SGC is the son of the businessman arrested today.
   

Lala's...I've always thought that L has been involved from the getgo...he's the one with the well guarded house, and as you said the known dealer of choice...not from the corner street pimps, but the ones with money.  He was one of the first ppl to be brought in for questioning...then BOOM all silent on the Aruban front re: him.

He L, as we now know even has an underground disco for after hour/PRIVATE parties in his home....

Dest   this is fun

Good night folks....see you in the morning.... :)

Goodnight Mere

Why the condemnation of chat?  The exchange of pleasantries in the LCD has been a constant thorn in the side of many, yet now that there is a place for such things its existence is questioned.  There is no way to force a group of people into the same thought process for any length of time.

Look at what is happening in the LCD tonight.  Posts from the Shango/Simian thread are being brought here to discuss.  Why?  Wouldn’t it have been much easier for the interested parties to just switch to the existing topic?

Too many mixed signals are being sent out and it has everyone confused.

I don't think Joran took her there to sleep it off...I also think Paulua and a few other *older* men were there...Nat, I my belief, wes pickid out b4 that nite for a purpose.  Joran and the other PIMPS were just the instrument to get her there.

Dest

FYI...
Just sent this out...
Besides... I think Dugga said CHAT (this Chat) was on a trial basis ???
 :lol:


Dugga,

Could we set up another CHAT Room... ?

I attempted to tonight... SlowMonkey Chatter 
Had seveal drop in   one or two post something ... but then Nothing.

I get lost in CHAT... and most other places...  but  I did get into CHAT early on and at least had the slow pace to  learn / set up suff  so I can see / watch and when slow keep my head above water..and even post ..

I did  notice my new Slow Chat Room went Poof when every one bugged out
Just a thought...
OldF

OF I dont' think everyone understood what you were doing at the time.  Is chat in another room by invite etc.?  Not everyone is familiar with all the bells and whistles. 

Lala's   :lol: yeah, but what do I know, lol  :lol:

I hate it because it freezes up my computer.... besides, I am allowed to express what I think aren't I? 

and why was everyone coming out and posting that y'all were fighting?

BTW OF, your chat room read "Slow Money Chatter".  We thought you were gonna talk about finances.  LOL

now that's funny... I don't know why I can't post in there... it completely freezes my computer and that stinks

ha ha ha, yeah I wondered about that myself!  :lol:

I can????  :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:

When I tried to close "chat" I had to shut down my computer. It takes me 10 minutes to get into the forum with dial-up.  

Yeah, try it on one!  I just figured that out yesterday  :wink:

HELp!!!   FIRE!!!  This format sux!!!

I hate this!!!

sorry

I agree.  I am just trying to show that even those in Aruba were questioning Lorenzo's involvement.  They had not been silenced on this subject yet.

Hi Tidy.  You sound so distressed, yet your avi is so completely chillin'

Boy that last post came out sounding stange... even for me  :lol:
Bottom line is ... I got to the  CHAT room early when it was S l o w w www
and got most of my settings set up so I can at least see what is being posted and how things work...

JMO...


BTW I made  some $'s selling my used car tonight...
Even reduce the the price a little because of ...   another story and I have been O/T enough tonight...

Hey, Tidy...it's different.  I really hated it at first, now I don't even notice it that much.  I still have trouble with the quote stacks though.  I am old and need new glasses. LOL

HI Tidy...

Why Muffy?  It stresses me to see you sooooo stressed...what up?

Dest

Tidy - I just fixed (checked a couple of boxes) in your profile that will make it better for you.  I think most everyone has gotten used to this new format now and most think it's good.  There are some really cool things this software can do.  There are some drawbacks as well.  Overall though, I think it's better.  Give it a chance.

Destiny I'm not stressed.  I was replying to Tidy's stressed sounding post.  But thanks :lol:

OK- Understood.  I do believe he likely was involved in body disposal.  Don't tend to believe Lorenzo is Paulus' son or the Paulus- KJ rumor... but would love to know truth on anything and not just rumors.  Wouldn't we all! 

Klaas
I don't see a quote button in those archives.

Never mind ;-)

Dest

I give you permission to be O/T.  Now, talk away.

Oh, maybe only I see them.  Let me go check.

I am glad to hear someone managed to make $$ selling their used car.  And I love your stories.  BTW when you opened your chat, I think some peeps thought you all went into "private" chat.  Like you had to be invited.  Is that how it works?
I think it takes time to sort some of this out.  It's too hard doing chat with 20 ...

 :shock:    :smt046 I'm out of Depends   :2doh: :lol: :lol:

No one no one wanted to join in...   Everone thought I was gong to hit them up for $$$ :2doh:

OF the next time you want to do something like this, let me know.  I would love to come join in and use some of the features and have a chat with you and others.  With 20 in chat, it was like the tower of babel in there. 

Tidy  ....
Breathe In... Breath Out.. and talk to us... (yes I'm behind a bit but) :smt052

Hi, None...I have trouble like Mrs. Red and maybe some others.  You may have a good point about the # of monkeys in there...Earlier today, only one person was in there, but marked 'away'.  I was able to use the functions and posted a test with no problem.  Tonight when there were a lot of people in there, the computer froze up and the chat was distorted and I had to end that session and open a new browser. 

Hi Mom.  Sorry you are having problems with chat.  It got too busy for me a while ago.  It think there are so many chatting, and different subjects that things were getting mixed up. 

Karo...I do believe that Lorenzo is Joran's half bro.


I also don't think that L's stepfather committed suicide. The whole thing stinks to high heaven!  L's Mother moved back to the Netherlands, and gave the large home to L.  L has armend private body guards that patrol the outside grounds and attack trained dogs too....now, why would just a plain old normal happy island guy have that kind of security..oh he has outside camera surveillance  setup too.

Just way to many red flags IMOO

Dest

Ok, I am going to  :-?try the forum instead of chat

MuffyBee
I think I know .. Think I can... Sooo
Pick a NEW Chat Room Name ???

Hey Elaine...

Boy did I botch that, I think I am still dizzy from chat

:D :D :D

Hello Mrs Red  :)

He has a big business to protect and lots of money not in the bank yet, if much will ever be deposited.  That's why he needs security, IMO. 

Muffy, you know the feeling huh... :lol:

I probably couldn't keep up, anyway, MuffyBee.   :-?

Welcome to the slow lane Elaine ;-)

Dest

chloe2

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #137 on: June 17, 2005, 08:42:28 AM »
   
Wow - was it Arubagirl who said last night everything happens in the middle of the night with this case?  Sheesh -- go away for a little sleep and the dam's broken.

FYI -- Foxnews.com already has a video on their site talking about the 4th arrest. I think there's more info on the front page of this site, but if you don't have access to a TV and you want to watch, go to Foxnews.com.

I don't remember this one...is there really video about Lorenzo?

Thanks Destiny

well nite y'all...

I wonder if a search can be done on this.  I am trying to think of the best way to do the search'

I HAD LEFT UP MY AWAY SIGN AND WHEN i GOT BACK i WAS IN CYBERSPACE.  i COULDN'T GET THE AWAY SIGN DOWN, COULDN'T POST AND COULDN'T GET OUT OFF CHAT. jUST TO LET dUGGA KNOW. Sorry for the caps