Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Did I beat Robots??? 911 to Robots

Dear Monkeys,

We have been here for over 2 yrs. We have learned more than we ever wanted. We have learned of evil and of goodness.
We also have learned that the collective intelligence that we all have on this Thread and others is extremely beneficial and for the Good, but not always to the timing we'd like.

We have learned about Red and TES.

I wished to share I have had the honor along with another Monkey and I mean honor of riding in the back seat with Donna Jou's father and Tim Miller. One Monkey there on one given day/night , the next Monkey was there in the back seat with Mr. Miller and another on another day/night.

You all all with us... there is nothing worse than a "monkey on your back" :lol:

Tim Miller and his staff are extremely dedicated, extremely thoughtful and know what they are doing.

It is too bad that the Aruban law enforcement and the "don't ruin tourism" powers in Aruba didn't let TES, Red, Beth, Dave and Jug do what should have been done at the time.

Answers and Justice would have been done. The kind, hard working people who live in Aruba who had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance would not be hurting now from the boycott.

I hope that Ms. Allred will be through with the case about the star and her children to devote more time to finding Donna Jou.

Please offer prayers for Donna's family and friends.. also for TES to be given Guidance to narrow down the area or areas important to find her alive and if necessary evidence and all other things needed known and not known.

Also for protection. Mrs. Red reminder me of this in the prayer thread.

Do you remember the times in this thread our intuitions were working.

It has been a lessen to me here to start listening to mine. Thank you for that.

OK... did I beat Robots??? :smt052

Here's a commercial for Scared Monkeys and TES... it's getting near the end of the year and time to look at our yearly contributions.

Do forget to order Beth's book through the link here and Scared Monkeys get some operating funds from it.

Yes IBE - you beat Robots  :lol:.  I haven't seen him around lately :sad:

medley relay would find some off the wall excuse or alibi for the sporter if a video was found of jvds shooting somebody l2 times with a singleshot rifle and leaving the body on the l.e. station house steps and there were l2 adult 20/20 sighted witnesses to the shooting.  either the a.l.e. didn't respond fast enough, emt's weren't proficient enough, or the doctors at the hospital weren't competent enough to plug up all the holes and restart the guy's heart, so it was their fault, not the sporter's.   then julia would chime in with a "runaway from homes" tale or find credible witnesses to black helicopters taking off from the roof of the hospital and the guy's not really dead but it was all a ruse and jvds was just helping the victim get away from some raucously partying tourists who wanted to kill him because he won all their money at poker.
dennisintn

Sad but true!

Here is an update on the Aruba Poker Classic:

For those who do not know- ******* and I have been sending messages via myspace to poker pros who might be attending the Aruba Poker Classic.

This is the message I am sending under the headline "Aruba Poker Classic/Natalee Holloway"--

Hello, I am a supporter of Natalee Holloway, a girl who went missing from Aruba in 2005. The case is yet to be solved and the family has no closure. The investigation into her disappearance was a smokescreen. The perpetrators were know from the beginning and they have admitted to being the last seen with Natalee. They changed their stories over and over again, yet with all the inconsistencies, charges have yet to be filed. It is believed there was a massive cover-up, designed to sustain Aruba's tourism.

I am writing to ask if you would were a small token, a picture of her, or her name, if you will be attending the Aruba Poker Classic. I think it is important that people know she is not forgotten.

I hope this message finds you well.

Ive yet to get a response, but two well know poker players read my message, which is a start imo.  :P

What do you guys think of the message?  Is there anything to add or remove?
 

"were" should be "wear"

Other than that it sounds GREAT!  Thanks to you and ******* to doing this!

Hey Carpe...

regarding your theory on the FP - a bullet to the head would result in the massive paint job as blood and brain fragments would be all over the place.

If you would were wear wur durrr blah  :2doh:

Ill change it for the next round of spam, errrr, messages  :D

but then again, it would mean that Natalee was still alive for a few days after she was abducted. Dave and TES searched that area many times and saw no blood.

I have no doubt that those bags DID end up in that basin. The white paint hand print confirms that for me.

Good catch Carpe. Ill change that too.  Spell check doesnt catch this stuff!

 :lol: :lol: I hate words that make it through spell check like that.  Hard to proof read your own work. 

Right,

I just can't quite work it all out in my head yet

the amount of time she was laid up at the

"Sloot's Heartbreak Hotel."




Was it hours; or could it have been days?

jeez, who really knows. No body ever got into that dungeon. They used every ounce of pull they could to keep everyone out of their house... so obvious that is some type of crime scene. No one go to that length to keep people out if they are innocent or have nothing to hid but Anita's orange hair dye and eyebrow wacker.

or she could have been taken somewhere else .....

Possibly that's where Lorenzo's estate comes into play.

By Anita's BROW WACKER, do you mean

that gasoline powered device

out in the shed that says TORO on it? :pirat:

Is that one freaky bizzle, or whaaaaat???

Who is her designer, Béla Lugosi?

I heard AHATA had created a new site, "Moveon-Medley.org."

LOL  :lol:

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/18/ (http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/18/)


Online Pap translation:

man sober owing to maltrata bartender female
besides past owing to fight cu another cliente also!

oranjestad (aan): diabierna night owing to stay reporta at police cu at club UPA situa in avenida alo tromp two man is luchando cu another on caminda. at arrival of the unidad policial police is come across cu two man all at blood.

one of esnan envolvi is one such m.m. of 45 year. according informe suministra for testigonan cu man m.m. is have one cuchio in his power cual owing to worde less for of dje for so the fight mano owing to mano man m.m. according the version policial owing to observa is seems of is bao of influencia of alcohol or another substancia.

bartender of upa in the caso here a muher behind bar owing to splica the agentenan cu m.m. owing to enter in the club y owing to ask for cerbez, corectamente the bartender female owing to constata cu he have drinks inside for cual the not owing to sell alcohol. but m.m. not owing to like y owing to angry fuera owing to become aggressive.

here m.m. owing to dicidi of bandona the lugar, y the bartender female owing to dicidi of close door, kico owing to happen diripiente? he aggressive here owing to send one boter cu owing to strike the child muher behind his cabez.

one cliente that owing to see locual owing to end of take lugar owing to reacciona y owing to bay atende m.m. owing to start one discusion cu owing to termina in plea, at dado instant m.m. owing to saca one cuchio y according informe, another person owing to core actua y less this for of dje y for so fight mano owing to mano cu the cliente.

of both near golpi owing to cay, one more cu another. at end he sober m.m. had one cap at his cabez. not despite esey, still the was much aggressive. police owing to detene y owing to transporte for keep, at where fiscal auxiliar owing to ordena for encarcele. do not conoci if the bartender female owing to entrega denuncia oficial contra of m.m. for maltrato earnest cu one boter.

Here is the latest from Natalee's Freebirds:

CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST NATALEE HOLLOWAY

May 30th, 2005 - The Cover Up Had Begun  

The activities that were taking place on the Island of Aruba on May 30, 2005 involving Paulus, Joran, Deepak and Satish indicate that the cover up regarding crimes committed against Natalee Holloway were already in the implementation stages.


1. There are those who theorize that Joran van der Sloot was never at the beach with Natalee Holloway. Satish Kalpoe's attorney, Dave Kock, confirms that on the morning of May 30, 2005 cell phone records place Joran van der Sloot near the Marriot Hotel. Also, the gardener places Deepak and Joran across the street from the Marriot beach at 2:30 AM on the morning of May 30, 2005.

Dave Kock - On the Record w/ Greta - 08/26/05

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So your client, 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock, is on the Internet at home. I've been in his room. I've seen the computer, or at least where it was. And he gets phone calls at 2:40 and 3 a.m. from Joran. Where do the cell records place the phone that Joran is using at 2:40 and 3 o'clock in the morning?

DAVID KOCK, SATISH KALPOE'S ATTORNEY:: Well, there's not an exact pinpoint indication, but the general area is the area here in north in Palm Beach of the hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: So it looks like he's not home at that hour, but someplace near the Marriott, is that right?

KOCK: That is correct. He is in this neighborhood.


Carlos Ramos (Gardener) - Court Testimony - 08/15/05

On questions of the judge-commissar, the witness explains as follows:

I do not know Joran van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe.

1. Can you remind yourself the declaration, which you have taken off 22 July 2005 on around 19.25 compared with the police force?
RAMOS: Yes

2. Have you then spoken the truth?
RAMOS: I have explained what I have seen.

3. The witness is asked to make a situation drawing (make production 1). The witness gives to where the car of suspect stood and the route he took.

4. Did you see the face of the driver when you went past?
RAMOS: Yes.

5. Did you recognize him with a photograph confrontation?
RAMOS: Yes, on the day that I gave a declaration at the police force they left me a photograph see from an illustrated magazine. That is the only photograph that they showed me.

6. Did you recognize the faces of the other persons in the car?
RAMOS: Yes, the face of the person who sat beside the driver. When I came past I saw, in the light of my car, that the person beside the driver had his head and face covered with his hands. I have recognized that person from his illustration (photo). You ask me how I recognized the driver who sat beside the man who screened its face? I have seen him in the light of my "in the light of" (van). He moved himself a bit to the back.

7. You have also recognized Deepak Kalpoe?
RAMOS: yes, on the same photograph which the police force showed me.


Beth Twitty - CNN LARRY KING LIVE - 02/23/06

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.


2. On the morning of May 30, 2005 was Paulus Van der Sloot summoned to the Marriot Beach area after Natalee Holloway died in the course of wrongdoings which involved his son? Did Paulus van der Sloot, with the assistance of others, move Natalee's body on the morning of May 30, 2005 to an undisclosed location? Was some thus far unknown “white vehicle” involved?

Jossy Mansur - NANCY GRACE - 07/29/05

MANSUR: there`s another witness that, before that, told someone that works at the hotels that he saw a white pick-up over there by the Holiday Inn, in which three persons were also in, all of them male, carrying what looked like the body of a girl, putting it in the back of the white pick-up and driving away with it.


David Mattingly: Cnn Correspondent - PAULA ZAHN NOW - 07/05/05

MATTINGLY: Defense attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers tonight confirmed to CNN that testimony from fishermen telling investigators that they didn't see a couple matching the description of Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot on that beach the night that Natalee turned up missing. What they are saying is that they saw a white Suzuki on that beach …


Karl Penhaul: CNN Correspondent - NANCY GRACE - 07/14/05

PENHAUL: What the fishermen do, interestingly, say, though, is that sometime in the timeframe when they were there, they`re assuming sometime around 3:00 AM, that they saw a Jeep-type vehicle pull up near the beach. That was the only vehicle that they saw close to the beach, a Jeep-type vehicle.


T.J. Ward: Private Investigation - 'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - 11/14/05

WARD: We think he has played a role in the cover up of her disappearance.

COSBY: How strong do you also still believe that the three boys played a role too from everything that you are getting?

WARD: We believe the boys are directly involved. And again, our theory is that something happened to Natalee, either where she stopped breathing, had a heart attack or whatever. And in the course of that happening, we think Paul Van der Sloot played a part in the after effect of that in the removal and concealing of Natalee Holloway.


Art Wood: Private Investigation - Sun Herald - 03/17/07

Wood told the more than 50 people who attended the Merrill Lynch-sponsored presentation about his experience in Aruba, where he believed three young men -- Joran van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe -- attempted to rape Holloway. In the process, he believed they accidentally killed her, then sought the advice of van der Sloot's prominent father to dispose of the body in the open ocean. Wood believed van der Sloot's father also used his connections to control the investigation. The case remains unsolved.


Gerold Dompig - 48 HOURS MYSTERY - 03/22/06

Dompig says he believes Paulus Van der Sloot does know more than he has been telling about the circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance.


Gerold Dompig - 48 HOURS MYSTERY - 03/22/06

The Aruban authorities’ new theory is that someone, someone possibly very close to the young suspects, took the time to carefully hide the body, not once but maybe twice, literally re-burying her.


Riehl World View - Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 04:53 AM

On Natalee's Yahoo forum there is a report that a helicopter is searching Santa Lucia area because according to the cell phone records of one of the three suspects there was a call in the Santa Lucia area at 6:30 am the morning Natalee was to have met up with the group to leave for airport.


3. Jossy Mansur conveys to Greta that the caretaker of the Fishermen's Huts located on the Marriott Beach reported that there was a break in on the morning that Natalee Holloway went missing. The items stolen were very significant when the disposal of a body is considered. Tim Miller claims that Gerold Dompig told him he believes that Natalee Holloway could have been put in the stolen fish trap and taken out to sea.

Jossy Mansur - On the Record w/ Greta - October 21, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, how big is this cage?

MANSUR: It is a big cage, it is a fish trap made with chicken coop wire. You know the ones that have the round holes in them? That’s pretty big.

VAN SUSTEREN: Could you put a body in it? Could you put someone 5’4” or 5’6” in it?

MANSUR: Jossy: Yes, you can.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was this reported…she disappeared on the 30th. When was this first reported missing?

MANSUR: It was reported to the police that same morning by the caretaker. The man who looks after the fishermen’s huts.

VAN SUSTEREN: So, it wasn’t because he had heard there was a missing person? It was just coincidentally I have a missing cage and reported it? Jossy: That is correct. He just told them there were a knife missing and a big fish trap missing.


Tim Miller/Gerold Dompig - KPRC Local 2 - 01/11/06

On Friday, EquuSearch founder Tim Miller and a deepwater search team from Florida will travel back to Aruba to search an area three to five miles off the island's coast that is between 800 to 1,000 feet deep, Miller told KPRC Local 2 that Aruba’s police commissioner told him that he feels Holloway might be inside a fish trap dropped deep into the water.


4. In Deepak Kalpoe's suspect statement of June 29, 2005 he concedes that he was creating internet chatter with a friend, John Charles Croes, on the morning of May 30, 2005 to obstruct the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. How did Deepak know that there was going to be an investigation? Natalee Holloway had yet to be reported missing.

Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - 06/11/05

To your question as to how late we got home, I can say the following. We arrived home approximately 02.20 hours.

When we got home Satish immediately went to bed. I had switched on the television. I had also turned on the computer in my room. I went and chatted with a friend of mine on “MSN”. His name is John Charles Croes. I had told the afore mentioned CROES during the chat that we had gone out and that I was waiting for a friend of mine because I had dropped him off on the street together with a girl.

After having chatted with John I went into the living room and watched TV.


Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - 06/29/05

You are telling me that John Charles CROES has stated that I wrote while I was chatting with him that I had written that the girl had put her hands in/down my pants, I can say the following. I did this to frustrate/mess up the investigation.

The purpose of the chat traffic was to help the police and the Office of the DA with regard to the investigation so that they could see that I was indeed home in the night from Sunday to Monday.


5. After claiming in his witness statement of June 18, 2005 that he had slept "solidly" through the night of May 30, 2005, Paulus van der Sloot concedes that he may have used his phone.  

Paulus van der Sloot - Witness Statement - 06/18/05

On May 30th 2005, in the nightly hours, I did not pick up Joran from anywhere. I slept solidly through the night without waking up. On May 30th in the hours of the morning, I did not notice anything different/out of the ordinary with Joran.


Greta Van Susteren - On the Record /w Greta - 07/03/05

VAN SUSTEREN: I am most anxious to find out if there was e-mail traffic or phone traffic among the three in custody in the early morning hours of May 30. I am also curious whether Paul van der Sloot used his phone between midnight and 7 a.m. on May 30. He told me no... he told the Dutch TV correspondent on camera no... but after the interview with the Dutch TV correspondent, he pulled him aside and said maybe he did make a call and that he was not sure. Honest mistake or does he fear to be in conflict with phone records now in custody of the police? These questions answered would be, in my mind, a huge jump forward in trying to sort out what did or did not happen.


6. In Rita Cosby and Nancy Grace interviews Beth Twitty claims that Paulus van der Sloot stated on the morning of May 31, 2005 that he had picked up Joran/them (?) at McDonalds at 4:00 AM on the morning of May 30, 2005. Paulus adamantly refutes Beth's words. However, Karin Janssen's official position within the investigation would indicate that she was deriving from a foundational knowledge when she stated that investigators suspected Paulus of being involved in Natalee's disappearance. Then in January 2007, the Superior Court ruled against compensation for Paulus van der Sloot in a wrongful detention lawsuit. The ruling stated that Paulus' detention was justified as his own declaration stated that he had picked up Joran and Natalee at McDonalds on the morning of May 30, 2005.

Beth Twitty - 'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - 03/21/06

TWITTY: ... He had initially told the witnesses that he himself had picked up Joran Van Der Sloot at 4:00 a.m. on the night of the 30th. But he later changed it about three weeks into the investigation that he did not pick up Joran at 4:00 a.m. on the 30th.


Beth Twitty - NANCY GRACE - 08/12/05

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: And the night that we arrived on the island -- you know, Jug does not misinterpret a 4:00 AM time pickup to 11:00 PM. I mean, Paulus Van Der Sloot stated that he picked them up at 4:00 AM on May the 30th. Then -- we don`t know who they were, but then even as far as June 16 and June 17, Mr. Van Der Sloot was still stating this 4:00 AM pickup. Only until around -- maybe it was when he was picked up or arrested did he change it to 11:00 PM that I had knowledge of.


Karin Janssen - USA TODAY - 06/30/05

“They spoke about the situation that when there is no body you don’t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance,” Janssen said. Janssen said that the elder van der Sloot had obstructed the investigation by asking a friend of Joran, who had been interrogated by police, what he had told them. Janssen told MSNBC that he was arrested because investigators believed he was also a suspect in the disappearance.


Superior Court - January, 2007

" ... The tapped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgment of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway."


7. Is there a Steve Croes and Geoffrey Van Comvoirt connection in regards to the assistance that Paulus Van der Sloot may have received if he was instrumental in moving the body Natalee Holloway from the Marriot Beach area on the morning of May 30, 2005? Steve Croes involved himself in the Natalee Holloway case by providing a false alibi for Joran, Deepak and Satish. Geoffrey Van Comvoirt's association with the Visibility Police/Beach Patrol would afford him access to a "white pickup". Also, Steve Croes and Geoffrey Van Comvoirt representation by the same attorney was sanctioned by Karin Janssen while she considered a similar situation a conflict of interest in regards to the security guards.  

Beth Twitty - On the Record w/ Greta - 04/18/2006

TWITTY: .... And when I think of Joran van der Sloot and when I think of Steven Croes and I think of this new suspect (GVC) and the lies that were coming out early, very early, the moment we arrived on the island, if we find out that these three suspects are acquaintances or know each other — somebody needs to connect the dots. I mean, there certainly is a reason why Steven Croes came forward early on and stated, lied to the authorities that he had seen the two security guards taking Natalee. You know, people don't just do that for no reason, Greta. Somebody needs to connect the dots on those three, if they know each other.


Beth Twitty - NBC13 - 04/19/06

Natalee's mother, Beth Twitty, said she is hearing another story. " ... I'm hearing he (GVC) is also an acquaintance of Stephen Croes," Twitty said. Croes is a party boat disc jockey who was arrested early on in Natalee's case. He backed up van der Sloot's first story about dropping Natalee off at a Holiday Inn. "I have a feeling all of these suspects are tied together in some way," Twitty said.


John Kelly - On the Record w/ Greta - 04/19/06

KELLY: I know that's the situation. It's a woman, and that is the person who represented Croes and would be representing this individual now. And actually, Ms. Janssen, when I talked to her today, she was just getting ready to turn over the dossier to "G.V.C.'s" attorney for review before they did go into court.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then it's bizarre that this lawyer would represent both Steve Croes and GVC because at least here in the United States, I think most lawyers would say that there is a potential for conflict of interest and a lawyer shouldn't be representing both.

KELLY: I think that's right ......


Chris Lejez - ASSOCIATED PRESS - 06/11/05

Lejuez dropped John as a client per a request from the prosecutor, who said it's not ethical for him to represent both clients.


Chris Lejuez - NANCY GRACE - 06/07/05

LEJUEZ: I have been the defense attorney for both of them for the last two days. But as of tomorrow, I will be only for one of them, because apparently there will be a conflict of interest in defending them both. This has been told to me by the public prosecutor, so I will be resigning from one of the cases.


8. In Freddy's June 12, 2005 witness statement he reveals that Joran conveyed the Holiday Inn fabrication to him on the afternoon of May 30, 2005. This communication would imply that Joran was well aware that something had happened to Natalee Holloway, and this was hours before her family arrived to begin looking for her.

Freddy Zedan - Witness Statement - 06/12/05

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house. He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening.

<snipped>

After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away. (....)

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub.
Joran's Book - Translation Credit: Rammstein


9. One of the security guards, Mickey John, claims in the Greta interview of June 29, 2005 that while detained Deepak told him that Paulus was involved in the collaboration of the Holiday Inn fabrication. This would imply that the collaboration must have taken place on May 30, 2005.

Mickey John - On the Record /w Greta - 06/29/05

JOHN: He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.


10. Jan van der Straten concedes to Nancy Grace on June 2, 2005 that Natalee Holloway had been reported missing on the morning of May 30, 2005. It could be assumed that the report would have included descriptions of Joran, Deepak and Satish as well as Deepak's vehicle.

Jan Van Stratten - NANCY GRACE - 06/02/05

GRACE: Commissioner Jan Van Derstraten is with us from Aruba. Commissioner, when exactly was she reported missing?

VANDERSTRATEN: She was reported missing on Monday morning.


11. The implication of the prosecutor's words to Dan Abrams is that on May 30, 2005 Paulus van der Sloot was already giving Joran, Deepak and Satish legal advice.

Karin Janssen - ‘The Abrams Report’ - June 30, 2005

JANSSEN: The father has spoken with those three suspects, and he said he give them some legal advice, but I think the advices were going further than that. They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don‘t have a case. And that was already in the first day after the disappearance.


12. Prior to Jug and Beth Twitty's arrival on the Island of Aruba, certain happenings of May 30, 2005 would imply that someone within Aruban Law Enforcement was assisting Joran, Deepak and Satish in getting their stories straight regarding their encounter with Natalee Holloway.

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT
On July 12, 2005 Anita Van der Sloot stated in a Joe Scarborough interview that Joran was picked up from school by police on Monday, May 30, 2005. Joran has never implied in interviews or declarations that he was ever picked up by police for questioning.

Anita Van der Sloot - 'Scarborough Country' - 07/12/05

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: He hasn't told me anything, because, on the Monday, he went to school, like any normal boy. And he wasn't aware of—he was totally surprised when the police asked him to come to the—or picked him up for interrogation. He was totally surprised. He really thought that the girl would be safe in the hotel and there was no reason to talk about her at all.”


DEEPAK KALPOE  
Deepak Kalpoe claims in his official statement of June 10, 2005 that he vacuumed his vehicle prior to picking up Joran Van der Sloot on Sunday May 29, 2005. He also states that he remembers telling interrogators at Bubali on May 31, 2005 that his vehicle was very clean because he had vacuumed his car the prior evening. This would imply Deepak was questioned by police at Bubali station on May 30, 2005.

Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - 06/09/05

He then asked me whether I wanted to go with to "Carlos & Charlies", because he had met a few girls and wanted to meet them again in "Carlos & Charlies". I agreed and told him that I would pick him up later. A little before 23.00 hours I drove home. I ate something at home together with my brother Satish and after that I vacuumed the carpet on the inside of my car. After I finished vacuuming I went and took a shower. A little before 0.00 hours I drove to Joran's house. Joran lives on the address Montanja 19.


Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - 06/10/05

To your question whether I can remember the day when I was summoned to the police station at Bubali, I can say the following. Yes I remember that day. You are telling to me that my car looked very clean on that day. About that I can state the following, I had vacuumed my car the previous day.


SATISH KALPOE
On June 29, 2005 in a secretly recorded conversation in a police van, Satish Kalpoe conveys to Joran that he told police about the choller in his first police statement. Satish's witness statement of May 31, 2005 has been revealed and there is no mention of the choller. It can be assumed that the first statement Satish is referring to must have been taken on May 30, 2005.

Satish Kalpoe - Leaked Police Vehicle Recording - 06/29/05

Joran: (to Deepak) Then you're going to tell shit about the choller. I have helped you with that that shit of the choller friend.

Deepak: And, I also said that.

Joran: That I have not read. I have also read that statement.

Satish: That of the chollers was from me. I have already told that before. I have also said that in my first statement.


13. Paul Reynolds implied that Paulus was implicated in Joran, Deepak and Satish's original statements. Considering that Deepak and Satish's May 31, 2005 witness statements do not implicate Paulus, it can be assumed that Natalee's uncle is referring to not yet revealed statements taken on May 30, 2005.


Paul Reynolds - 'Scarborough Country' - 08/26/05

REYNOLDS: Well, we certainly think they know more, but we think all three are involved. We think Joran and Deepak and Satish are all involved. And, you know, we still think the father was at least involved in the cover-up. And that‘s based on the statements that the boys gave in the beginning.


14. Joran claims in his suspect statement of June 14, 2005 that he played tennis on the evening of May 30, 2005. However, upon investigation, Art Wood discovered the contrary. Joran concedes in his book that he never did play tennis that day. Was the tennis game meant to be a cover regarding the real reason Joran was at the Racquet Ball club? Was there an arranged meeting with friends to discuss an American citizen named Natalee Holloway? Was there activity involving a boat?

Joran van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - 06/14/05

On Monday, May 30th 2005, I did not talk to anyone at school about having left behind Natalee. At approximately 17.00 pm, I was dropped off by my father at the Raquet Club. Between the hours of 17.00 pm and 18.00 pm I was in the gym. I was talking there with "Koen" nickname "Cul". We spoke that it was cowardly/weak and that no one was there. My tennis lesson was between the hours of 18.00 pm and 19.00 pm. According to me I was not called by anyone during that time. I had also made no calls myself. Approximately 19.00 pm, I was ready with playing tennis. I showered in the clubhouse


Art Wood - NATIONAL ENQUIRER - 01/06/06

The dramatic new line of investigation revolves around the timeline of May 30, starting about 18 hours after Natalee vanished. There are several unexplained missing hours during which authorities believe that her body was dumped at sea. Former U.S. Secret Service agent Art Wood, who spent months on the island investigating the case, told The National Enquirer: "Joran told police that he played tennis with a friend during the evening hours. And the pal backed up his alibi. But when I investigated the Racquet Club I found that Joran had never played tennis there that night."


Joran van der Sloot - Joran's Book

PAGE 98
Paul drops Joran off at the RC at 6:15, but none of his friends are there so he doesn't feel like playing tennis. He gives his trainer an excuse and goes to the gym where he meets Koen. They talk a while and then they ask Andre, David, and Joran's tennis buddy "Marco" (Guido) if they want to play poker at the Wyndham. Marco says he has to work until 10:00 in the HI casino. Andre says his dad will join them in the game. Joran calls Paul and asks permission, saying Marco will bring him home after, Paul says OK. Joran takes off his tennis shoes and puts on flip flops. He walks from the RC past the Salinja to the beach, then via the beach he reaches the Wyndham at 6:45 (Note: book doesn't mention looking for his shoes).


Rick Segall/Dave Holloway - America's Most Wanted (AMW) - 04/11/06

Police have told Dave that the night after Natalee's disappearance, a boat was launched from an input just down the beach from the Holiday Inn where Natalee stayed.


15. Joran states in his June 14, 2005 suspect statement that on the evening of May 30, 2005, he did not walk past the Fisherman's Hut on his way to the Wyndham to check if Natalee was "still lying there". Why would Joran entertain the thought that Natalee may be "still lying there" eighteen hours after he left her? The implication is that Joran knew full well that Natalee was deceased.

Joran Van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - June 14, 2005

At approximately 19.15 pm I left on foot for the Wyndham Hotel. I was alone. My tennis gear I had left behind the bar at the Raquet club. I had also removed my tennis shoes and left them in the bag behind. I had taken from my tennis bag a pair of slippers and walked away on those. From the clubhouse I walked in the direction of Salinja to the Marriot Hotel. I walked along the same route that Deepak had taken to drop off me and Natalee. At the beach of the Marriot I tried for a little while to find my shoes. They were nowhere to be found. I looked for about two minutes. Then I walked over the beach to the Wyndham Hotel. On the way there I saw a lot of people. I did not go to Fisherman's Hut to see if Natalee was still lying there.


16. Following Jug and Beth Twitty's arrival on the Island on the evening of May 30, 2005, Charles Croes of Aruba Phones was contacted at 11:30 PM by a "major friend" who required assistance pertaining to cell phone information that related to a missing Natalee Holloway. On June 30, 2005 Charles Croes conveyed to Greta that following a 1:30 AM meeting with the Twittys he drove to the cabana area near the Holiday Inn to check whether Natalee was there. Byran Burrough states in the Vanity Fair article that Charles Croes claims he drove to the California lighthouse. Why would it cross Charles Croes mind that Natalee Holloway could possibly have connections to either of these areas – and why would Mr Croes change the location? Could it be that Charles Croes was conversing with Paulus and Joran at the VDS residence following the initial contact with a "major friend" and prior to the late night meeting with the Twittys?  


Charles Croes - On the Record w/Greta - 06/30/05

C. CROES: After that, we spoke a while. And then we left that location with the intention of going to the Holiday Inn to continue meeting. On the way there, a young man and I were sitting in my car. And on the way there, instinctively, I wanted to go to drive off, pull over to the cabana area, just to look to see if perhaps she was there.


Bryan Burrough - Vanity Fair: Nightmare in Paradise - 01/02/06

Croes, meanwhile, drove north up the beach road and, just below the lighthouse, found a group of teenagers drinking cheap wine.


Charles Croes - One Happy Island: Visit Aruba - 06/02/05

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.

It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.

I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.

I wish all of us strength

charles
arubafastphones.com


These facts beg the question of why Aruban authorities have yet to prosecute these four criminals in this case?

How can four suspects in a kidnapping, rape, and murder investigation go unchallenged when it is apparent they all knew something had happened to Ms Holloway, and were taking steps to hide that fact before they could have logically known she was missing?  


Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!

Natalee’s Freebirds
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

Natalee's Freebirds have been thorough from day one. Klass thanks for posting that.  I just came back from reviewing aru-bay vids on another site and am always intrigued by what I see on them. I mean this footage screams some sort of cover up... to me IMHO. For the life of me I can't understand how that island could somehow wish this case would go away and for Aruba to get back on track with tourism. Face it Aruba it's not EVER going to happen. You all have tainted that island of yours by disappearing a young american girl and allowing a botched investigation from the moment whatever happened...happen. I am disgusted for 2+ years now as I am sure we all are. I just hope TES can get back there soon and do a proper search somewhere....anywhere on that floating piece of dung called Aruba. Sorry for ranting. (those vids always get me) :-x

Posted at Scrux, he has a point IMO:

Jonathan45

Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 91

 Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
@Medleyrelay

I know you love Joran's beachcrap.
I know you want to shoot the messenger.
Therefore you have to enter my empty theatre.
To read my crap about the VDSresidence, the real crime scene.
To realize Joran killed Natalee and framed the Kalpoes.

Your tongue is Anita's tongue.
 

MumboJumbo

From MF: David Kock said he is happy about the verdict in the case of Dr. Phil and CBS, that the case will not be thrown out and about the fact that a judge in another legal system wants to give documentation from another legal system to a group of persons not involved in the investigation or are not part of the case and has no authority whatsoever will also be difficult for that court to have that order followed.

> I don't really understand what MF/Kock are saying. The realization that this case is being held in California does not seem to have hit home.

IMO, Kock is saying that Hell will freeze over before he gives up those documents.

OT- Fox is saying FBI and LAPD investigating 'HIT' on Kevin Federline.

This may have already been covered, but isn't he required to hand over the documents if they wish to continue with this case?? I don't understand. TIA!

Yep, that is my understanding.  IMO, if they don't produce the documents the judge will dismiss the case.

No doubt. It would limit the ability of the defendants to defend themselves. It's all but over if the Kalpoes can not get around Article 45.

The Kalpoes have places themselves in a classic catch 22. Either intentionally or due to terrible attorneys.

Interesting . . . what would be a good reason to intentionally place themselves in this catch 22? Any ideas?

Hi Shadow- Nope no idea. The Kalpoes are not exactly rocket scientists. Satish is in 12 grade again I assume. And Deepak... well he's Deepak. I am only left thinking it could be greedy attorneys (and judging by the amount they tried to get) it can only be those that knew the law but put dollar signs in the Kalpoe Boy's eyes. Attorneys had to know this was gonna be a sticking point, but they went ahead anyway.

Charles Croes - One Happy Island: Visit Aruba - 06/02/05

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.

It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.

I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.

I wish all of us strength

charles
arubafastphones.com
~~~~

This post by C.C. has always intrigued me. What does Charles Croes really know?

I have read many of his posts and it is in my opinion that he believes that Natalee's family is behind it all. CC is just another waste of oxygen.

In Fridays Arubatoday:

http://www.arubatoday.com/newspaper/September/AT-15-9-07.pdf

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Arubatoday091507a.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Arubatoday091507b.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/arubatoday091507c.jpg)

The guy fancies himself as some sort of writer, poet...and in part that explains the dramatic nature of his post. Added to that, he was the first person to interview Joran in-depth. Per the VF article - Charles called Joran out for lying and then witnessed him effortlessly shift gears to a new lie. The desperation of Natalee's family was of no consequence to Joran. The nicest description i have heard from amoungst the authorities who have interviewed Joran is that it the experience was *disturbing*. Thus the dark, negative theme.

Does anyone know which day is Beth's discussion on Larry King Live?
She is listed as a guest but it doesn't give a date.

It might be this week since she is second on the list.

I just looked at the LKL website again and from I can tell, looks like she won't be on until October.  That makes sense since her book comes out October 2nd. 

I dont think he originally had that point of view.."There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications" I think he was meaining it was much deeper than just Joran and his father..He has a pretty Idea what happened since Joran himself told him that he and Natalee were doing drugs and he had sexual contact with her..He speaks all the languages so I'M sure he heard loud and clear Paul VDS and Deepak telling Joran to say nothing..Not exactly what innocent people say under those circumstances :wink:

Since then he has teamed up with groups like the IFA..We know some of there members are Julia Renfro,Anita Van Der Sloot,Mark and Marlene Purcell and Angela M  :2thinky: :monkey:

I still want to know what Charles Croes said in the edited portions of the Greta interview, as well, and why it was so obviously edited. 

Me too!

My guess would be the reason why Beth thought Natalee was kidnapped and what was on those reported calls that Beth had taped. I wonder if he asked Joran what drugs they were doing? My guess would be extasy since that is what PVDS told his friend in N.Carolina..ALso I dont think it was appropriate to be discussing what contact him and Natalee had anyways on National TV.Especially since Joran was lying through his teeth..IMO

Notice that this was the first and only time they had talked about the one or two calls they think came from Natalee..Who's voice said are you calling home?? Who's voice said what is your name?? WHat other background noise was on that tape if any? Who's phone was that call made from? From where? What were they saying in Papiamento to each other??

2NJ

IIRC ... the original transcript included questions regarding the cell message ... the message which Beth believed the voice sounded like Natalee.

I wished I had saved the original transcript.

Janet

Klaasend I have a fairly basic question. Maybe its been discussed previously. These three had limited experiences in life, as teens they would tend to do repetitive activities. They would have a favorite spot to take girls to. They would also have a favorite place to take unsuspecting tourists to. At there age it could be one and the same. So here's the question. Has anyone just simply put out a call for someone to come out of the shadows and point to a place they were taken? That place would be the best place to start from since it wouldn't be buried in a lie. They would have gone there again, especially if they got away with something or as they say twenty times before.

IMO, C.C. was also talking about PJ2K and others when he made that post. It sounds to me as if he knows exactly what's been going on there and has a pretty good idea what happened to Natalee.

And then there's this posted by Ramm @ BFN of PVDS's June 23rd, 2005 statement:
[snipped]
I briefly talked to Charles CROES who had been driving the mother of the missing girl. He said that he didn't need to know anything more from Joran. He said that he had looked into Joran's eyes and understood from that

HERE THERE IS A SECTION MISSING IMHO

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=5265.0

What did Charles Croes see in Joran's eyes and why is that part of PVDS's statement missing?

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

This was posted by Faith on the Truth 4 Natalee website:

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Stunning new information about Joran van der Sloot's (search) lies. Less than 24 hours after Natalee Holloway (search) disappeared, before he was questioned by police, Joran Van Der Sloot had already made up a story about what happened that night.

Charles Croes spoke with Joran in the early morning hours of May 31. Earlier today, Charles told us about that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Charles, take me back to May 30th, which is several hours after Natalee missed her flight. How did you first get wind of the fact that Beth Holloway Twitty (search) was looking for her daughter?

CHARLES CROES, TALKED TO DUTCH SUSPECT: A major friend of mine called me up. He was working with Natalee's mom to help them find Natalee.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why would he call you? What is your occupation that would be a reason he would call you?

C. CROES: Well, I have a sail rental company. And there was apparently a phone call made. And he was calling me betting or hoping that the phone call was made from one of our phones, and so that's why he called me.

VAN SUSTEREN: About what time did he call you?

C. CROES: He called me at 11:30.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did he say to you?

C. CROES: He told me that he needed my help. And I asked him what it was about. And he told me that it had to do something with a cell phone. And I didn't relate it to anything but work at that point.

And then he said, "There is a possibility that a phone call was made using one of our phones." And I said, "OK." And he said, "It's very, very important." I said, "Fine," and I asked him to go into further details, and he did. And then I made arrangements to go see him.

VAN SUSTEREN: When you got to the gas station, did you talk to Beth?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Beth have any idea at that point, as far as you knew, who her daughter had been seen with or who she had last been known to be with?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did she tell you?

C. CROES: Specifically, she told me that her daughter went to Carlos and Charlie's, and that, while there, she had met up with a young guy and asked him to take her home, and that she got into a small silver or gray car that had a large exhaust on the back and tinted windows, and had left.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she have names for any of these people or just that description?

C. CROES: She had a description of the car and she had a description of one tall Dutch guy. And at that time, she said, with darkish hair.

VAN SUSTEREN: During the time that you were talking to Beth at the gas station, did the discussion of that phone call come up again?

C. CROES: Yes, it did.

VAN SUSTEREN: After you and Beth listened to that phone call several times and hung up with the person in the states, what did you do next?

C. CROES: After that, we spoke a while. And then we left that location with the intention of going to the Holiday Inn to continue meeting. On the way there, a young man and I were sitting in my car. And on the way there, instinctively, I wanted to go to drive off, pull over to the cabana area, just to look to see if perhaps she was there.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then where did you go?

C. CROES: Then we continued on track over to the Holiday Inn. And we were supposed to turn over to go into the Holiday Inn. And I had made a decision not to and went straight ahead. And going straight ahead, I made another decision to go to the beach area.

VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got there?

C. CROES: When I got there, there were three cars there. One was pulling out. It was a black car. There was another car parked there. And there was a car with kids in it. And I made the decision to talk to the kids. I got out of the car and, in talking to the kids, and describing what had happened, and explained to them why it is I was approaching them at this hour of the night and asking these questions.

I then described Joran. At this point, I wasn't sure about his name. And they asked me what kind of car he drove. And I wasn't sure. And I said, "But we do know that he was in a silver or gray metallic car, small car with a large exhaust." One of the guys says, "Oh, that's Joran."

I then spoke to him, and I said, "Would you kindly lead us to his home? Do you know where he lives?" And he said, "Sure." And he got in our car. And we went over to the house.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you drove over to the Van der Sloot home. And any idea about what time you arrived there?

C. CROES: Close to 3:00.

VAN SUSTEREN: Prior to that time when you went to the house, had you ever heard of the Van der Sloots or had you ever been to their house before?

C. CROES: Never.

VAN SUSTEREN: So then what happened next?

C. CROES: What happened next was that, in the interim of doing that, we had notified the family that we had found a house. Then they asked us to meet them at the police station. So we went back over to the police station.

VAN SUSTEREN: About how far is the police station from the Van der Sloot house?

C. CROES: Actually very close.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what did do you next? What time did you leave the police station about?

C. CROES: Some time between 2:40, 2:30, 2:45… at that time.

VAN SUSTEREN: A.M.?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: And where did you go?

C. CROES: Right to the house.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who went?

C. CROES: All of the people that were there, myself included.

VAN SUSTEREN: Meaning Beth and her husband, the police… were there some other friends from the United States with them?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got to the house?

C. CROES: When we got to the house, the police asked us to stay back. And they went to the front door, or the entrance. And they beeped the horn. No one responded. And they then did their police siren kind of thing. And no one responded. They did it several times, and then finally Mr. Van der Sloot came out.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you hear what he said?

C. CROES: I heard bits of the conversation but not the whole conversation, because I was still back.

VAN SUSTEREN: What bits did you hear?

C. CROES: I heard bits that he didn't know where his son was. I heard bits that referred to him having picked up his son at a McDonald's, those kind of things. There was nothing that was tied together, just little bits of conversation that were coming out.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did you then do next?

C. CROES: We went to the Wyndham Hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why did you go to the Wyndham?

C. CROES: There was a feeling that Joran may be there playing poker.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Paul Van der Sloot go with this entourage to the Wyndham Hotel?

C. CROES: Yes, he did.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who did he travel with?

C. CROES: I believe he went with the police.

VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got to the Wyndham? What did you do?

C. CROES: We went up to the casino area, and it was closing down, talking to some people. And they mentioned that they thought they had seen them there. They thought they had seen Natalee there, but there was no level of certainty.

VAN SUSTEREN: After all of you were at the Wyndham, and you learned that Joran was not there, what was the next thing that happened?

C. CROES: We then went back over to the Van der Sloots' house.

VAN SUSTEREN: Prior to arriving at the Van der Sloot's house, did you hear Paul Van der Sloot say anything at all about Natalee, about the disappearance, or any information? Did he seem to know anything at all about the disappearance?

C. CROES: No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Much more of our interview with Charles Croes is coming up in just a moment. He's going to tell us what happened when they got back to the Van Der Sloot house that night, or that morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Earlier today, we spoke with Charles Croes, one of the first people to speak with Joran Van der Sloot after Natalee Holloway disappeared. Charles told us that the night after Natalee vanished, he, Natalee's family, and Paul Van der Sloot went searching for Joran at the casino but they didn't find him. I asked him what happened when they returned to the Van der Sloot house in the very early morning hours of May 31st.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

C. CROES: When we got back, all of us got back to the Van der Sloot home, Joran was there, as well as the father, of course. And then Joran came out, spoke to the police.

VAN SUSTEREN: When you first saw Joran and his father, where were there and where were you?

C. CROES: They were standing by the gate area. And I was arriving in the car I was driving, and I saw them. And then I parked the car, and got out, and walked over to the side.

VAN SUSTEREN: Tell me next what you heard, what you saw.

C. CROES: I heard that there was some questioning going back and forth. And I heard the father several times say, "You know, is there anything we can do? You know, we're here to help." I heard Joran say, you know, "I'm willing to help, I'm willing to help, I'm willing to help."

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you hear Joran tell what happened that night, the last he'd seen of Natalee? What did he say?

C. CROES: Yes, I did hear him. And what he said was that they picked him up — or Natalee got into the car with them.

VAN SUSTEREN: At what time?

C. CROES: I'm not sure that he gave me the time. I have heard since then that it was 11:00ish or so.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say whether he knew Natalee from any earlier experience?

C. CROES: Yes, he did.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did he say?

C. CROES: He said that he had been gambling and that he met Natalee. And Natalee told him that she had lost some money and was trying to recuperate it before she went home. And he apparently was a good poker player, or blackjack player, whatever it is, and that he helped her recoup some of her monies, and gave it back to her. And she then considered him her lucky charm.

VAN SUSTEREN: When does the story pick up again? When does he next see her, that you know?

C. CROES: Well, he next told me that he was at Carlos and Charlie's, and that they were dancing. And then that she asked for a ride home.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you give me the details, every single word exactly how he said it, that you recall?

C. CROES: That I recall, in the details was that he told me that she was coming on to him, and dancing provocatively, and then she said she wanted to have him take her home. He then agreed to that. And they went out, I guess, and they got in the car. She got in the car, and they drove off.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was there any sexual discussion at all?

C. CROES: Yes, there was.

VAN SUSTEREN: What was your observation of his demeanor at the time he was telling you these things?

C. CROES: Very uncomfortable young guy, very, very nervous, very uncomfortable.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he describe whether or not she seemed to have had too much to drink or anything that night?

C. CROES: Yes, he did. He told me that she had been doing drugs and possibly been drinking, too.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he indicate whether he was doing drugs or drinking?

C. CROES: He said that he had been drinking.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say how much he'd been drinking?

C. CROES: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what did Joran say happened to Natalee? I mean, at some point, the story continues.

C. CROES: Yes. He then said that they made a decision — that they were driving around. They made a decision to take her to the lighthouse to show her the lighthouse. They went up to the lighthouse, were there for a little while.

And then she was acting so crazy that he just wanted to take her home, back to the hotel. And that he took her to the hotel, pulled into the front, and opened the door, and that she got out. And when she got out, she tripped and fell.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then what?

C. CROES: And then got up, continued to walk into the Holiday Inn hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: And is that where he said he last saw her?

C. CROES: That's exactly what he said.

VAN SUSTEREN: It's about 5 o'clock in the morning on Tuesday, May 31st. She missed her flight on Monday, the 30th, midday.

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: There's been absolutely no news, no newspaper cycle, to indicate that Natalee Holloway is missing, right, at that point?

C. CROES: OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: So somehow Joran decided to come up with this lie about the Holiday Inn, assuming that's a lie, and I guess that's pretty much been accepted as a lie?

C. CROES: All right.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything that he told you or he said that would suggest that he had any sort of inkling that she was missing and there was some foul play?

C. CROES: No. What he said to me — he repeated to me over and over again was his desire to help find her, that if there's anything he could do to help find her, he would, just please ask him, that kind of thing. It was a very — at that point, it was a scared young guy who seemed to be wanting to help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

I'm not klaas and I'm sure she will have an answer so while we wait here is my answer.

What better place to get away with a crime than your own apartment with your father who is a judge on the island making sure no one comes to his house.

He saw EVIL.

We are pretty certain they have been to The Mill Resort before, possibly to other hotel rooms.  I also agree with SAN that Joran's apartment or house is a likely place as we know he can freely have girls there.  I also wonder about Freddy's place.

Goodmorning Leslie - thanks for the morning papers!

Thanks, San!

------------------------------

VAN SUSTEREN: When you got to the gas station, did you talk to Beth?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Beth have any idea at that point, as far as you knew, who her daughter had been seen with or who she had last been known to be with?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did she tell you?

C. CROES: Specifically, she told me that her daughter went to Carlos and Charlie's, and that, while there, she had met up with a young guy and asked him to take her home, and that she got into a small silver or gray car that had a large exhaust on the back and tinted windows, and had left.

---------------------

Does anyone think that Beth really made the comment above in red to Charles ??

Does anyone think that Charles Croes is a 'player' and in this up to his beady eyeballs?? And a lieing POS?

San, thank you for that transcript....do we know the date of the interview?  Just curious...since Greta mentions the 'lie' about the HI.  Also see that CC says he rode to VDS's after talking to the kids on the beach (which beach?) and when Greta asks what time, he says 'about 3am'.  Then, he says family was called at HI and he met them at the police station....follows stating they all went back to VDS's 2:30, 2:40, 2:45am....?????.....

I know if I were Beth & company, and I had expected CC to meet us at midnight or thereabouts at the HI and instead I call a couple of hours later, I'd wonder wth is going on.  It makes me sick to read CC saying that Paulus & Joran repeatedly stating they would do anything to help find Natalee....the bogus info about the casino & winning $ back for Natalee....all BS...

Janet & ******* both mentioned a full transcript, which I may or may not have read but I still remember all the cuts in the video seen that night on Greta.   

I too thank Leslie for the morning paper delivery; sorry I don't say "Thank You" often enough. Lots of stuff today in Diario (not sure what most of this MEANS, though ... )

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/18/ (http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/18/)


(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b367/cli2/batibloki_2.jpg)

Online Pap translation:

spencer owing to worde maltrata cu bloki in cara

oranjestad (aan): monday afternoon {9/17} police owing to ricibi informacion cu in the cas in chilestraat have a injury throw on cama y was sacando blood for mouth y nose.

this after cu past owing to being maltrata cu one bloki in cara in oranan trempan of morning. at once they owing to send ambulance at the adres menciona hour the personal of ambulance owing to arrive at the adres they owing to see cu the cas is show decai y was have holor stinki, so self they owing to enter y owing to come across cu the conocido of police, spencer, at blood sleep on cama cu nose break, eye y cachete swell they owing to lante y owing to talk cune for hibele hospital for ayanan achieve atencion medico.

according can owing to compronde the cas here is being using for chollernan y according testigonan the cas here is being visit frecuentemente for children jong cu is bay school bisiñanan self have much problem cu the various chollernan cu is bay at the cas eynan they're ask can medio of this atencion at autoridad already cu in cercania is hendenan of edad indefenso. all the time, spencer owing to stay interna at hospital.

* * *

Online Pap translation:

at one form of but fono...
child muher mericano forzosamente owing to
bay cobra 200 dollar

oranjestad (aan): owing to stay reporta at central of police cu saturday {9/15/2007} nightfall one incidente owing to socede at one highrise hotel.

patrol cu owing to worde dirigi owing to atende the caso, owing to resulta cu one child muher naci at merca of 22 year live at aruba owing to bay at the restaurant of the hotel encuestion. the child muher mericano his motibo of owing to acudi at the restaurant have of haber, cu past owing to bay atende one empleada cu according his version owe 200 dollar.

but during of this owing to surgi one discusion cu at dado instant owing to leave for of hand, did take lugar partimento of golpi owing to cay at both near.

while n.w., owing to declara also cu very time end the have to of cent, but the muher r. does not page, y the hour the nightfall ey past owing to dicidi of go back acerca r. for his coin.

police owing to splica n.w. cu the have of busca one another as for cobra the summa of 200 dollar. owing to talk cu the manager of the empleada r. if can regulation one que another for n.w. can ricibi the summa encuestion.

but the empleada r. owing to tell the not know till so far cu the owe n.w. none cent. do not worde menciona if the partidonan envolvi owing to arrive at one areglo.

The above sounds like a dispute about a $200 restaurant bill, involving an American "N.W." ...

* * *

Online Pap translation:

they owing to admiti of owing to hit casino
dentro of some three turco will have of
present in corte

oranjestad (aan): after of casi one month, owing to worde treci fast of one caso relaciona cu marcamento of carta in casino till cu director of one highrise hotel owing to entrega denuncia oficial. is so cu three estrahero denuncia owing to worde entrega contra of they for owing to mafia the casino during game of poker. the caso owing to worde investiga profundamente y at where permission owing to worde give for aresta three man procedente of turkia.

the detencion did take lugar at aeropuerto just at instant cu the trio here wanted owing to bandona aruba. is deal of the hombernan of inicialnan v.s. of 41 year, b.s. of 30 year y f.a.di 46 year. owing to stay confisca suma of coin considerable according the informe is menciona y esnan deteni owing to admiti they culpalidad.

all the time, daily paper wanted owing to trece fast cu the trio is encarcela at kia y they're wait for they caso present in corte of husticia. the trio was haci usage of blade for mark the cartanan y via of camera also can owing to notice the modus operandi of the turconan here cu owing to hit one or more casino.

was gracias at autoridad mericano cu owing to send informe for among another for autoridad aruban debi at good cooperacion cu is existi the investigacion owing to cuminsa lora. already cu the are here according informe owing to hit in caribe also one casino, but owing to arrive at one areglo for they worde expulso for of the island.

while at merca the trio owing to throw stop in two casino among another at las vegas. do not conoci if merca his peticion owing to enter end for ask they extradicion for after of they sentencia at aruba do not exclui cu they will worde entrega at merca for responde at husticia mericano.

I think the above is about 3 guys, possibly Turkish? - who were caught in some kind of casino ripoff. Apparently they've done the same elsewhere in the Caribbean and in America (LV).

* * *

Online Pap translation:
supuesto security guard owing to spanta one tourist
immidiately for steal cartera

oranjestad (aan): one caso cu is worde investiga relaciona cu one incidente combina cu ladronicia cual did take lugar at one high rise hotel on diadomingo night. central of police on diadomingo night owing to ricibi call cu presencia of patrol is worde solicita at one highrise hotel, this have of haber cu one caso of ladronicia.

patrol cu owing to worde dirigi, the agentenan owing to atende he naci at merca of inicialnan c.d. cu have 25 year. he c.d. is at aruba because; tourist, the is count ; cu together cu his cas they owing to haci one paseo on beach.

at dado instant the bishitante wanted owing to throw one cabez in sea. past owing to dicidi of haci usage of one palapa at where past owing to less his carson in cual the have his cartera. his casa owing to stay bao of palapa y the self owing to march enter sea.

but during his casa is sperando on dje bao of the palapa, owing to present one man dress because; guardia of seguridad cu have one estatura of more or less 1.90 metre. at one dado instant the guardia uniforma, color cla cabey black cortico owing to saca his part intimo in direccion of the madam tourist.

thing he supuestamente guardia of seguridad here owing to haci owing to place the tourist female at careda y owing to core direccion of sea for alerta his casa of the sosedido repudiable.

for hour cu the madam y his casa owing to return at the palapa the supuesto guardia of seguridad owing to desaparece. locual is the contenido in saco of carson of the tourist denunciante owing to somenta, esta his cartera.

the caso have atencion debido of recherche y have of worde investiga if enberdad will is deal of one guardia of seguridad. is wait for cu cameranan instala will can owing to capta the locual cu according the denuncia entrega at autoridad.

Apparently a male tourist (American?) tried to steal a camera; was on the beach; tried to throw the camera into the ocean as guards approached him; then SOMEHOW in the midst of this managed to flash his "intimate parts" in front of a female tourist ... as always, don't know how close to correct this "summation" is.

* * *

Online Pap translation:

casonan cu owing to socede at hill colorado y
mouth big...
recherche in one proyecto special owing to
resolve hortamento in car

oranjestad (aan): for people can achieve one imagen of thing recherche is haci, y what result they're succeed, the week here daily paper owing to achieve know of one “proyecto special” cu owing to worde ehecuta cu the unique meta: resolve y stop the wave of ladronicia at hill colorado y mouth big.

the proyecto self owing to carga the name “project auto-inbraak san nicolaas”, y this owing to come at life after cu among 23 of july 2007 y 6 august 2007, then in two week of time, owing to ricibi 15 complaint of ladronicia for of autonan at hill colorado y mouth big. although ladronicia is socede several trip in the area here, thing owing to wing atencion of recherche is cu this owing to aumenta drasticamente in the two week ey.

pesey owing to reuni y owing to arise the proyecto here, cu have the unique aim for stop the wave of ladronicia y captura the ladronnan! they owing to ehecuta the proyecto in one week, y past owing to resulta exitoso! already end on second day, they owing to detene two sospechoso just hour cu they're hortando.

after owing to haci listramento at they cas, y the sospechosonan owing to worde interoga. they owing to pour abao y so owing to succeed detene 3 person more. owing to bay listra in they cas also. here owing to achieve several mercancia steal.

after of the serie of detencion here, owing to notice cu not had none caso more of ladronicia registra in the area here! pabien recherche of san nicolas!

After reports of about 15 auto break-ins during a two-week period at Boca Grandi and Sero Colorado, a special investigation arrested 5 people ... and seemingly no more cases in the area since. I don't know whether the reference to "several Americans" is saying they are victims or culprits.

* * *

No & Yes.....we were posting with similar thoughts at the same time. 

 :lol: I certainly agree with you there, San.

 :lol:

'similar minds'  :cool:

There is a saying ... "Great minds thnk alike".   :D

There is also a saying ... "Fools seldom differ".   :P

Sharon ... don't hit me!!!!

 :smt052

Janet

 :lol: :lol:  We both have degrees from the same institution of 'higher' learning....mmmm

2JN ... when the evidence is considered ... this wannabe detective speculates that the appropriate quote which applies to this case is ....

GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!!!!

Hugs

Janet

Bad news.  My myspace was deleted.  :(  All the messages I sent to the poker players are now lost

Gee simp, that is bad news. How in the heck did that happen?

Im not sure.  I sent an email to myspace to find out. 

WOW - Let us know what myspace says.  You would think Myspace would send you a warning if they were going to delete it though.  It's almost as if someone got into your account and deleted it.

Did you bookmark the link to your myspace?  I ask because may be able to pull up the archived/cached page if it will help?

Is it not odd that C. Crowes says he has never heard of Vandersloots....he was a judge or running for judge on the island...right?....seems to me he would have heard his name before...IMO

Seems almost unbelievable  :roll: Yes, very odd.

nobody knows, or admits knowing, anybody if it might cause them to be connected to the natalee holloway case.  it's the law.
dennisintn

Thanks for finding the above. Hopefully someone out there will read this and respond with first hand knowledge. I
I agree that when it comes to knowing anyone on that island, no one knows anyone if it relates to Natalee. They just all hangout at one or two casinos, C&C and everyone on the island can describe the K2 car.

We are also fairly certain that it was Bailey Ann that Joran/Deepak/Freddy/Loco Stef took to The Mill Resort and we know that the FBI did interview Bailey Ann.

Ok The Mill Resort would seem to be too high profile. too many people around too hard to control witnesses. Even the Marriott seems a bad spot with beach patrols, tourists and fisherman.

I did not  :sad:

If you go ahead and try to sign onto Myspace the way you normally would, THEN...copy the link in your browser, you could try going to the Internet Achive Way Back Machine and see if you can find it.   http://www.archive.org/index.php

Hmm that last post was funky.  Here is what I got from the archive site:

We're sorry, access to http://www.myspace.com/thoughtcriminal1980 has been blocked by the site owner via robots.txt.
Read more about robots.txt
See the site's robots.txt file.
Try another request or click here to search for all pages on myspace.com/thoughtcriminal1980
See the FAQs for more info and help, or contact us.

I'll email you what I got unless you say it's OK to post here in the forum.  Let me know.  I was able to get a cached page.

Edited to add:  Just emailed it to you  :wink:

According to my expert teenager the folks we sent the request to may have complained about receiving the letter. They may have assumed that it was spam. Too bad there isn't someone out they recognize or could be invited to read here at SM.

Keep reminding Dr. Condi Rice regarding Aruba's denial of justice for
American citizen Natalee Holloway.

http://www.state.gov/

Posted at Scrux (his posts intrigue me  :wink:)

Jonathan45

Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 92

 Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:26 am    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
No condom no sex no body no case

As Joran stated: he didn't had a condom in his wallet when the couple wanted to have sex near the Fisherman's Huts [FH].
Joran wrote on page 89/90 about what he was doing just before he became so horny that he had to grab his wallet for a condom: in Dutch ""een beetje droogneuken".
Then Joran is confronted with a condomless wallet and thought in Dutch: shit, no condom, kut, kut, kut, dan gaat het feest niet door. Ik zeg:"I have no condom with me." Tho we decided to have sex without penetration. Without a condom I am not doing it he wrote and I also don't know what she have been doing before me. For me she was certainly no virgin.
After this Joran describes their sexual activities before and after he washed his hands in the ocean of innocence.

No condoms in his wallet.
No condoms in his apartment too ?
That is also a fact since 'no condoms' became a fact in Joran's lying truth beachstory as his excuse alibi.

Joran on page 85 about Natalee already in Deepak's car:

" Can I come to your house, she asked again. Yeah, sure I answered.
It is her intention that we have sex at my place. She didn't ask me that directly, but I feel seeing her bodylanguage that it's the intention."

On this thread there is no beachstory.
So Joran describes here a lie situated near the FH. The framing call to Deepak at 2.26am confirmed this lie.
No condom no sex.

to be continued

sex without a condom ?
 

This photo has been around for a while.  It appears to be the MB kids in CnC on that last night.  It was just posted again at BFN and the question was is the person in the white shirt Joran.  I don't think it is, but I do think Deepak may be in the photo:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/FRANKA1_edited.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/CnCJune2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/CnCJune1.jpg)

Hi Klaas,

I agree with you that J45 @ Scrux has some intriging posts, the only thing is that his theorie/s leave 2K innocent of everything except giving Joran and Natalee a ride...which may be true, but  somehow I just don't think so. I just don't believe 2K were just a long for the ride.

About the pic above I don't think that's Joran either, the reason the poster @ BFN was wondering is b/c Joran was wearing a white shirt at the poker table at the HI. It looks like Joran has a plain white t-shirt at the table, but the pic of the guy dancing looks like he has on a white shirt alright, but it has a collar, more dressier than a regular t-shirt. That sure looks like Deepak from the back to me also-good catch.

Also, I believe the MB kids mentioned that Joran was wearing the plaid shirt at CnC. 

Yes, I don't agree with everything J45 says but I like the way he says it.  I also like the way he stands up to Medley  :wink:

Did you see Victor's post?

 :lol:Yeah I saw what Victor wrote...wish she posted more...I liked her posts. You did see what she wrote to hannieC. before she left RU, didn't you? Bravo to her for standing up to her like she did.

I like the way J45 stands up to medley too. :lol:

Yes I did see what she said to HannieC  :lol:.  HannieC was being particulary discusting that day.  Haven't seen much of HannieC lately.

The above post is obsolete.  Here is my reply(forgive me for bing an etard!)

That is my page.  What does that tell us?

ps.  I received a message from myspace tech support.  They required that I verify my information.  I assume that I will get an answer about my account deletion shortly.

Oh yeah.  You can make it public if you think it will help Natalee.

I read the entire 'bike' thread the other night. The occasional 'snippets' you have posted had me intrigued.

I think his logic is spot on in so many areas.

I wanted to join Scrux -- just so I could reaffirm for Victor that she was NOT alone in jonathan45's theater.

And I enjoy the way he gives MedleyRelay (aka as Anita's tongue  :lol:) the 'vapors'

I don't know if that first photo is Joran or not but I do think that this photo is Deepak.

This may be a "stretch", but could that be Satish in the same photo (in between the two "shoulders") on the left hand side?

Looked hard at that myself this morning, Wreck

yup.

down to the flashy gold chain around his neck.

Yep.

The young man in the striped sport shirt could be the same as the one in the photo used in 48 Minutes as last picture of Natalee...just an observation.

 :2doh: I had my 48 Hours & 60 Minutes mixed up there.

It is the same MB guy.

Klaas:

I have some comments that need to be posted.

Have you read them?

I was hesitant to post them.

I'm afraid people may start dying in Aruba, again.

I hope not.

I just processed them Patti - I woke up kindof late.

Well, I'm glad you slept so well.

How are you holding up?

Holding up?  Fine, and you?

Holding up?  Fine, and you?

I'm okay.

This has been a real trial for us.

One day, I'll drop you a note and

let you know some of the things that

have happened during this peiod of time.

I'm sure it's nothing compared to the battle
that Natalee's family has gone through.

You know this is our ace.

When all the cards are played,

it is possible that Aruba will be

found guilty ot human rights violations.

Maybe we can play a part in bringing the
enemies of Natalee and her family down.

I'm sure that this is the same way the
boy that went missing died, as well.

To tell you the truth, I'm exhausted.

I think I'll rest for a while.

Posted at Scrux:

Jonathan45

Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 93

 Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Sex without a condom

In his book Joran wrote a lot of phrases about his sexual encounter with Natalee from the moment they stepped into Deepak's car after being in C&C's and in a still open bar to have a drink. It was an almost blind date with Natalee he made earlier on Sunday evening in the casino.
Joran never denied that he wanted to have sex with her. That's why Joran sneaked out of the house. To become a young innocent 'beachbum' without a condom. A condom was indeed needed when one of his two local girlfriends at the time could be sexualy aroused.
At 3.11am Joran sent Flor a sweet textmessage, a reply to a sms message from Flor [page 88] when they stopped near the VDSresidence at approximatly 1.30-140am.
About Natalee's fysical condition in Deepak's car he wrote that it looked if she felt asleep now and then during the kissing etc.
On page 89/90 [see my last posting] he described the sexual beach-encounter and stated that Natalee was drunk and he helped her walking till the FH where they, without any referring in his book to her earlier state of being drunk. were sexual very active wether he had condoms or not.
No penetration but as he told Deepak at 2.26am it was with no condom a full blown sexual encounter.
Then he had to go home[ examtest] and Natalee was unwilling/ incapable and probably in the aftermath of an orgasm if Joran was the lovable gentlemanlike youngling he and his parents claimed he was till the crucial moment he left her on the beach behind in a vanishing state.
Joran on page 91: " I not even really said goodbye or told her that I called someone to pick me up."
"I got in the car without telling Natalee that I was leaving and we drove off.
Then he realized he forgot his shoes. I told Satish what has happened on the beach" Followed by: "Tomorrow after school I go to the raquetclub, then I will look for my shoes"Joran said to Satish.
And indeed the next day [page 97] Joran walked through the Salinja to the beach and further to the Wyndham. He does not refer to his lost shoes in those phrases. In the casino Joran is talking and laughing a lot as usual as normal as Joran the secret pokerplayer. Again after sneaking out of the house till his dad called him when Beth Twitty arrived at the gate of the VDSresidence.

Natalee never reached the beach the night she vanished.
She became after the disposal a fictional acting appearance in Joran's lying truth 'mindf***ing' story.

If Joran really did what he denied [no condom]......

If Natalee resisted, wanted to charge him after Joran in Dutch slang used his "blanke sabel" .......

Was it a fatal sexual encounter , was it a blind date rape ?
Yes it was.
 

time for someones meds??? :2doh:

hey KLASS!

Klaas:

Theres an important post...

Thanks.

Bamboo the Aruban Choller is back... LMAO!!! :lol:

watch this one while you can...

http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/

J45 & The Window of Opportunity

I read it differently.  This poster has demonstrated that the goon has a gap in his alibi and tale (the beachstory) whereby it was certainly possible for him -- acting alone -- to commit a murder and temporarily hide a lifeless body. 

The focus is the murder crime, not the accomplice, not the conspiracy, not the kidnapping abduction, and as such is far less an exoneration of K2, than a condemnation of jvds.

I actually believe the window for hiding was the 3:30 downloads of 2 porn movies (what else?).  The movies play, until they are done.  But no one needs to be there watching them, while they play.

The most recent line of thinking "sex without a condom" demonstrates the inherent fallacy of another part of the jvds lie construction: the original intent was sex, so how could there be no condom...let alone why the condomless joran might let this stand in his way.

.

Patti - please email me about your last post

Klaas:

Also can you fix post #74 -

take out the second address to Disgusted Mom?

Please....

Thank you.

Still no response from the Kalpoe's?  :silent:

13 days left...

I copied it, lol

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/19/ (http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/19/)


Online Pap translation:

cristoffer laurance 24 year is being busca

oranjestad (aan): family of cristoffer laurance is buscando his paradero. cristoffer laurance naci at the netherlands 28-08-1983 is child of parents aruban.

cristoffer laurance already end for one week not owing to being see more for his parents. pesey self they owing to notifica police end y till even owing to bay close amigonan for achieve know where exactly they can come across cu they child.

none can owing to give the parents the contesta satisfactorio for cual motibo they owing to acerca police y beat alarma.

all the pañanan of cristoffer laurance owing to stay at home at modanza where the live close his father. the cellular is pay while cu the pasaporte y pertenencianan also is at home.

do not custumber of stay so tanto day for of cas y all hour cu the leave is calling notifica at home of his paradero. family is ask for cualkier person cu can know where cristoffer laurance is for calling his father maikel laurance at telephone 5881929 or sra croes at telephone 5648466.

family is wait for of can achieve know of paradero of they child. cristoffer was dress cu jeans largo color dark, one flannel black y one slof at leg. the is cabez shave, curpa big y estatura of 1.65 metre.

Cristoffer Laurance, 24, born in The Netherlands of Arubian parents, all residing on Aruba, has been missing for a week. His cell phone and passport is at home.

* * *

Online Pap translation:

daily paper owing to capta instant cu two choller owing to fight cu another

oranjestad (aan): unexpectedly, y in pleno view of fotografo of daily paper, tuesday morning two choller owing to cuminza fight cu another.

diripiente one of the chollernan, cu back sunu, owing to start at reclama the another, y in much pura owing to happen hand for her stone, y cuminza fight in bruegelstraat.

the trip here the choller strong owing to cuminza strike the another identifica because; gonzo. past owing to strike the cu stone, bay on dje, y cuminza yene cu golpi. esey owing to follow till hour cu gonzo owing to cay abao. the hour past owing to bay over for saca one cuchio cu intencion of hinke.

polisnan cu was at huez comisario for atende casonan, owing to core leave y bay stop the bringamento. police owing to apunta they arm on the choller for so less the cuchio for of dje. after of esey they owing to core bay y aleha of the lugar. gonzo owing to show cu the not have to of atencion medico.

Diario stumbled on two chollers (drug addicts) duking it out in broad daylight on a Bruegelstraat (don't know where that is). One was named Gonzo. Police intervened. No medical attention needed.

* * *

these arubians are sure messed up. lolololol

Renfro has seen video of Cristoffer at the HI.

Munzenhofer ran into him yesterday eating lunch.

Rosalie Klein has pictures of him hiding in Brazil.

Forget the cell and passport business, Cristoffer is clearly a runaway.

He ran off with a blue eyed blond hair girl and he was seen in a jewelry store buying her a ring. :roll:

In Bondia 09/18/07 a couple articles of interest:

This one appears to be something to do with an American tourist, 25yrs old:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Bondia091807a.jpg)

This about a cocaine bust:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Bondia091807b.jpg)

Rob


I downloaded it this time, so if EMCEE DIP STICK decides

to delete it,

...we can upload it again, and drive him crazy A$$ cuckoo coconuts.   

That idiot is King of the Losers. Typical Aruban flotsam.

>>> Brain B smoked.  

:lol:

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

The Netherlands: ‘Governmental power of Aruba unsatisfactory’

ORANJESTAD – The Netherlands wants a dialogue with Aruba about the differences in opinion on the desired autonomy and the governmental power of the island.

The Netherlands has noticed that ‘regularly there are indications of governmental incidents’ and the governmental power qualifies as unsatisfactory.  Same arrangements on good governance must therefore be made with Aruba as with the Antillean islands on their way to a new political structure.

This is stated in Chapter IV Kingdom Relations of the Dutch 2008 budget presented to the Dutch Parliament today.

Aruban ministers have often declared themselves openly in favour of independence.  Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) said that he is ashamed of his Dutch passport and that he prefers an Aruban one.  Also Prime Minister Nelson Oduber had the word independence in his mouth recently, when the Plant NV deal failed.  He even forbid his civil servants to take part in the negotiations regarding the new political structure of the Antilles.  In the meantime, the Aruban government seems to be seeking rapprochement again.  The governor said last week during the opening of the new parliamentary session that the government strives for strengthening the ties with the partners within the Kingdom.   

The Netherlands now wants a dialogue with Aruba to improve the island’s government and tie this into conversations on political adjustment and conversations on the cooperation program that comes to an end in 2009.  However, Aruba would like the Netherlands to continue participating in the Fondo Desaroyo Aruba (FDA).  But up till now, the Netherlands has been varying her expressions on this.  There is a political deliberation on the continuation of the development relation in the fall of 2007. 

The maintenance of law and order program is part of this and will be included in the discussion.  Important point of interest is the immigration policy, according to the Netherlands. 

The support from the Netherlands for the public finances will continue.  The dept-quote is anticipated to increase with one percent this year to 47.5 percent of the gross domestic product (BBP).  The real growth in relation to the BBP is estimated on 1.5 to 2 percent.  The Netherlands bases herself on the figures of the Central Bank of Aruba.  “

As part of promoting the autonomy of the Kingdom partners, it is of great importance that the countries are not too dependent of third parties financially.  This is expressed in a reduction of the debt-quote of both countries.”  The Netherlands is also of the opinion that thanks to a favourable economic development, the Aruban government can have the budget deficit under control with some specific measures.

As part of the political renewals, the Solidarity fund between the islands of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba will be canceled out.  This is a financial benefit of 4 million euro for Aruba that can be put in the FDA.

Bro Bro- did you check the comments section of my You Tube account and the message center that I gave you the password to?

There is some really funny stuff in there.

I still haven't decided whether or not to post all of his messages. He's a nutcake.

Hammer --  in this earlier post, I think the 'download' time is one of the gaps that J45 is questioning.



Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Scenario A 

The timeline is Joran's lying truth.

At 1.40am the Kalpoe brothers and Joran arrived [after leaving C & C's] at the VDSresidence and stopped there nearby.
At 1.40am Natalee seems to be alive and also present.
At 2.26am Joran makes the only cellphone call to Deepak in Hooiberg.
At 3.11 Joran sends a cell phone sms message to Flor.
At 3.13am Joran sends a cell phone sms message to Deepak.
At 3.33.08am Joran sends a msn message [ computer] to Deepak.
At 3.35.32am Joran sends a msn to Deepak.
At 3.40am Joran visited on the internet fcbarcelona.com, livescore.com and soccernet.com.
At 3.46am Joran visited the pornsite backseatbangers.com and 10 minutes later nastydollars.com, where he downloaded two pornmovies.
At 4.30am Joran viewed his hotmailaccount and MSN.

Scenario A is about the only prime suspect: Joran van der Sloot.

Joran's intention was to have sex with Natalee in his appartment.
Here the assumption is that Joran and Natalee factual left Deepak's car
at approximately 1.40am on monday May 30, 2005.
So 45 minutes later Joran called Deepak, who stated later that the connection was not that good and Joran was heavily breathing.
After that call it lasted 35 minutes to put another fact on his alibi timeline.
At 3.33am Joran is at home.
Between 4.00am and 4.30am Joran downloaded two pornmovies.
Was Joran during those downloads at home ?
Why does Joran compares himself with a professional killer ? [page 93]
Why is Joran describing himself as a very, very sick person ? [page 93]
Why is he writing about the murder of Natalee ? [page 93]


Joran's book is a confession.

Hi Monks!!  Renho aka glenda aka bondia says Beth orchestrated Natalee departure from Aruba via the medjet...after telling renho that Natalee was being held and injected with heroin and if the police found her they might arrest her....WTF!!! :shock:  ren-HO is MAD totally MAD!!

Sunny, thought you'd be interested in this post. ;-)

Glenda Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:15 pm    @ RU

K Hemingway wrote:
I can actually imagine Beth saying something like this...and there is a lot of what happened when she was in Aruba that no one has talked about because of the backlash...

I'm still trying to figure out if she DID say this...was it something she was told or just her overactive victim drama queen MO...Either way... J2k doesn't fit in the story.


Glenda said: I can assure you that she said it and orchestrated Natalee's departure from Aruba.   

they're continuing to build up the defense against what beth's book is going to do to them.  they are well aware of the things beth can truthfully write and it's got them scared to death.  whether beth's book takes that line or not doesn't really matter.
dennisintn

That explains it!! Its a coverup by Bush for Venezuelan oil!! Life is good for Bamboon as long as the americans keep visiting and he gets his drugs in a timely fashion!!

Boycott Aruba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also where is Renho's Book and Documentary?? She still gonna write that Natalee was preganant with Jug's baby?? That International Friends of Aruba is a fine group led by Anita Van Der Sloot,Mark Purcell,Angela M and Julia Renfro..They should change the name to International Friends of Anita's..

Sunny > Renfro does not care. Having a negative image as a nutjob or liar is fine for her, as long as there is any image at all. IMO

Scrolling thru some fobRU archives last week it was overwhelming the number of direct lies that Renfro has made concerning the investigation. The direction of the investigation, who are suspects, the statements of the suspects...she either did not know that the PVs were going to be released and that Joran was going to write a book or she did not care.

Been reading the Kalpoe/Phil legal docs...

- Kalpoes repeatedly assert that they never admitted any sexual activity to the *authorities*. That enables them to sidestep (temporarily) any admissions made in chat, emails or the like. If there is any truth to Deepak's defense that he created false stories (JC Croes) to mislead the investigation then there may be more of these stories in the case file. I am sure Joran would gladly take part in implicating Deepak to protect Satish...or whatever the story-of-the-day was.

if aruban officials had a brain in their heads themselves, they'd see that renfro and company's antics and blatant lies and heartless attitudes hurt the island a lot more than anything we could do to them.  they're without a doubt the most low moraled, heartless, and cruel excuses for humans i know.  they're just one notch above the level of being able to walk upright.
dennisintn

Hi all,

Just wondering what was the outcome from Paul Reynolds that he could use our help?
Also do we know if/when Tim is goig to Aruba??

And...

The delaying tactics by the Kalpoe's lawyers are obvious. Depositions and discovery have been met with great resistance. Avoiding depositions, in particular, is a very unusual stance for civil plaintiffs.

I don't think it is the suspect status (the title) alone that has been motivating the delay, they can attempt to work around that. Different system, not charged, free for 2 years, etc...

It is $$$. The Kalpoe lawyers don't want to engage fully and start racking up (more) expenses with the real possibility of criminal charges torpedoing their case.   

And...

FOB2 is gasping for air. ZZZZzzzzzzzz

eta:


 :cool:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/JuliaWitch.gif)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/doobiepassROBRU.gif)

Hi Serenity - I don't know the answers to your questions but if I see RED I'll ask him, ok?

roflmao, this ought to be a crack pipe, or a roach, not a legal cigarette.
dennisintn

Saturday, September 15th - he's looking pretty wasted as usual:

(http://www.magic965.com/gallery/albums/SEP2007/150907%20AFTERCACHE/DSC04031.JPG)

I totally agree..But no one said anything when these unbelievable lies made all the papers in Holland and Aruba did they?? Look's like a joint effort by Anita's friends and payed ATA/AHATA members..IMO

Nothing is more disgusting than lying and slandering a victim and her family and prospering off of it..At the same time helping there friends who covered up Natalee's Rape and Murder..

******* ... there was no obvious backlash/outrage from Americans when the following "Julia Renfro Special" appeared in both the LA and Seattle times.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++


"As missing-teen case cools, Aruba turns against family
By Carol J. Williams
Saturday, June 9, 2007 - Page updated at 02:02 AM

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003741183_aruba09.html

Beth Twitty's voice demanded and received media attention and ... media attention kept the disappearance of her precious daughter from being deemed a closed/cold early on.

However ... Beth Twitty has been silent for a long time and ... it is my fear that Natalee Holloway is becoming a distance memory ... Americans are forgetting that one of their own ... who went missing on Aruban soil under suspicious circumstances ... was never afforded a justice investigation.

The voice of this amazing woman who was a quest exposing the corrupt Aruban investigation needs to be heard again or ... the Aruba agenda which Natalee's father refers to in the folllowing quote is going to be realized.

I am so discouraged.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++

Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
August 11, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: Did the media help or hurt you?

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

Janet - I have big hopes that when Beth's book comes out in a couple weeks we'll see alot more media attention.  I do know she's supposed to be on Larry King Live some time probably in October.  Hopefully Greta and others will have her on as well.  I pre-ordered the book and hope I get it early.  This is one book I'm going to read right way!

Klaas ... thank you.

I am really looking forward to reading Beth's book and ... the listening to the interviews which will be promoting her work.

Klaas ... am I able to preorder the book through the Scared Monkey's site?  If not ... I am going to be the first one crossing the border into the States on the release date.   :lol:

Thanks

Janet

Janet - you should be able to go through the AMAZON link at SM.  Type in LOVING NATALEE and you will see it right away.  Yes, you can pre-order from here.

How?   :wink:

Janet

Up at the top right hand corner of this page, there is an AMAZON link with a SEARCH option.  Just type in there LOVING NATALEE and it will re-direct you to the AMAZON.COM site and the page with the link to Beth's book.  Then you can just click on that link and you will see how you can pre-order.

Thanks Klass

I am done for now but ... will check it out tomorrow.

Good Night Klaas.  Good Night All.

Janet

9:00 PM

Well said Janet...I feel the same.. :-| I would hope soon that Beth speaks to those that spend so much of there time on getting justice for her daughter. Hundred's of dedicate people on these blogs for two years now..I am glad to see many of you are never giving up on Natalee..Justice for Natalee will be the final outcome..It has to be that way!!

Nite Janet

Could it be Steve Croes in the white shirt?? Or is the person too tall and thin for that??

We've read in Deepak's (and maybe Satish's, too) PV that Steverino was at C&C that night. Sure would love to know if that was true -- and a picture would prove it.

In my opinion:
20% chance Joran is in pictue
70% chance Deepak is in picture
10% chance Satish is in picture
1% chance Steve Croes is in picture

[/quote]
In my opinion:
20% chance Joran is in pictue
70% chance Deepak is in picture
10% chance Satish is in picture
1% chance Steve Croes is in picture
[/quote]

that would be l0l% toxic waste. 
dennisintn

:wink: Good analogy! ( :2doh:... I was not trying to make it add up to anything -- just each person taken as an individual)

Here's something fun (I hope, for the parents' sake) from Aruba.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/ (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)   09/20/2007

The birth of triplets

One of the triplet girls, Iliany, Iriany, or Iviany in the incubator.

ORANJESTAD – A set of triplets was born in the Horacio Oduber Hospital around noon on Friday last.  They are three girls that were named Iliany, Iriany, and Iviany.  The birth was a big surprise for mother Ibis Aburto and father Raymond Hoek, who were expecting twins.  They were very astonished when after the second girl was born, a third one came out and they realized that instead of twins, they had triplets.  The weights and lengths of the triplets at birth were, Iliany 1590 grams and 41 cm, Iriany 1610 grams and also 41 cm, and Iviany 1675 grams and also 41 cm.  The triplets were born after a pregnancy of 32 weeks.  Gynecologist Harold Narain assisted the mother during the birth and pediatricians Louise Rafael and Guillermo Rodriguez took care of the triplets immediately after the birth.  The girls will have to stay in the incubator for another month, till they gain more weight, but the triplets are doing real well.  Also mother Ibis is doing fine; she went home yesterday.  The parents are very happy with their triplets.  Triplets are not very common in Aruba.  The last set of triplets that were born in Aruba are now 15 years old.

i pray for health and loving care for these 3 babies and also pray that they can grow up and prosper in a society that will recognize their inherent rights as human beings and women.  i'm afraid i don't see much evidence of that kind of attitude on the happy island right now.
dennisintn

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Pretzer092007.jpg)

Just posted on the front page of SM - interresting:

10061906 wrote:

A few thoughts to consider.

From Shango:
1. What you seek is not hidden.
2. What you seek is in plainview.
3. What you seek cannot be seen by light of day.
4. What is unseen is larger than what is seen.
5. Mary who was not the virgin.

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2929235060049496008LDaeFZ

The way I interpret Shango and Dave.
1. Seek a landmark.
2. The Grotto is in plainview
3. The Grotto is lit 7/24 very visible at night.
4. The inside of a cave is larger than the opening.
5. Mary who is the Virgin

Psychics have said that you have to go through a white gate and climb steps to find Natalee.

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2475904060076188600KDPfBU

The Grotto is just north of San Nicolas, west of Grapefield Beach and east of Lago Colony. My guess is a two kilometer radius and about two kilometers from Lorenzo’s. Aruba is about 114 square miles; if Natalee were on the island every little bit of info is helpful.

http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/images/aruba2002.gif

Just a thought>>>>

So tell me, why haven't we discussed this before?  I have never seen those pics.  I must be slipping.
Oh my, There goes the Lorenzo suspicions again...he always seems to come up doesn't he?
 One quick question...

Would this be located "east of where the fishbones fly"?

I think north east, yes.

How close is this area to the little church where Freddy was in that photo?

hmmm,good ideas,and thoughts.Have these areas been searched

(http://www.aruba.com/images/vrmap.jpg)

(http://www.flyingfishbone.com/images/roadmap5.jpg)

May not be NORTH - just EAST

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Lourdes.jpg)

We need a map with this area marked.  Maybe there is one in Sunfreak's thread...if I can find it..

Thanks Klaas...I should have known you would have it under control...

That would also bring things to the South end of the Island as we often suspected. hmmmmm.

I'm not positive we are certain what church that was.

And closer to Lorenzo's house as well.

Psychics have said that you have to go through a white gate and climb steps to find Natalee.

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:09 am Post subject: The rise of Eurydice
Garding the door is Janus still. Who is strong, never broken and never will. Do not mock,
for those who unknowingly cut their hands with swords have pure hearts.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/j/janus.html

I am not sure about the church either.  I thought is was St. Anna or something like that.  It just popped  into my mind...I do that sometimes...get these random thoughts and try to piece them together in some way. 

Another question...maybe someone will know this...is the Grotto area damp or wet on the inside there?  Maybe from some type of underground spring or something?

Klaas ... HELP!!!!

I squinted my eyes ... I put on my specks ... I took them off ... cleaned them ... put them back on but ... to no avail.  Klaas ... there is no AMAZON link on the "top right hand corner of this page" or ... anywhere else on this page.

Is there a link that would take me directly to the screen where I could preorder Beth's book.

Thanks Klaas

Janet

From BFN Espionage posts:

Look in the opposite direction of the California Lighthouse.


Espionage



Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - NATALEE - OCT. - NOV. 2006
« Reply #616 on: Today at 02:00:47 AM »

Not sure Lala's but I'm sure we'll know within a couple hours, LOL 

Janet - try this link :wink:

http://www.amazon.com/Loving-Natalee-Mothers-Testament-Faith/dp/0061452270/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-8013382-2997263?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190306323&sr=8-1

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/SatelliteView.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Lourdes.jpg)


I want to try and find Lourde's Grotto on the Google Map.  Google maps are about 2 years old.  

Lourdes Grotto
 © Diane Keijzer The Lourdes Grotto was created under the guidance of a priest named "Erkamp" and parishioners in the year 1958. The grotto is located in Seroe Pretoe (black hill). The year 1958 was an important year as it was 150 years ago that the Holy Virgin appeared in front of Bernadette, as legend has it in Aruba.

Bishop Holterman blessed the statue from the Holy Virgin and Bernadette. The statue weighed 700 kilos and one Mrs. Maria Geerman played an important role in the development of the grotto. Eight people were needed to hoist the statue and place it in the grotto.

Every year, on February 11th (feast of Lady of Lourdes) a procession leaves from the St. Theresita Church in San Nicolas to the grotto, where a mass is performed.

http://www.arubatourism.com/thingstodo/places.html

Thanks Klaas

St. Theresa Church - Aruba:

(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/18497/2788582820035628688S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2788582820035628688oFaEeX)

I tried to find a photo of St. Theresita Church but only found a group shot inside. 

The Lourdes grotto in France is known for the water, which is believed to sometimes miraculously cure....maybe there is a spring or source of water at the grotto in Aruba....(I, too, was revisiting espionage posts & others...)

Hi Lala's :)

I've been reading the archives (again) -- and this week I've been focusing on comments from Aruban radio reports (and Aruban comments) around June 16 -17. (I think RBN #7 has much of what I am referring to).

The absolute confusion between the arrests -- no I mean detainments -- no I mean questionings -- as a witness -- no I mean as a suspect.......concerning Steve Croes and Lorenzo VanRijn -- holds some absolute truths and answers. Of this I am certain. IMO  :lol: :lol:

Which one is the friend of Joran? Which one has the father who is a businessman? Who has the father that is a public figure? Who are the 2 DUTCH brothers who's comments to the ALE were the reason for bringing Steve or Lorenzo in?

BOTH of which, IMO, move the crime scene (or part of it) to the south of the island.

I remember the Lourdes Grotto being mentioned early on  -- I don't remember if it was 'searched'.

AVOID ARUBA
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

I know there are those detractors and please don't anyone get angry because I am analyzing this...it does not mean there is anything to it...just thinking here.  Let's just think about this for a minute...

From Espionage posts:
1) Look toward the southwest

2) East of where fishbones fly the pathway is blocked with links of chain. The wellspring’s bore is hidden from public view. Is this where someone should be “digging” for truth? Is there any type of cannery in this area also? Maybe a fishing marina or something?

3) From the center of the forests of Helvitia
Came a nocturnal seer with visions of the Caquetio

Chimera took him to a place of mystery
Near the axis of the isle’s history Is this near the haystack area, I mean the volcano, would that not be the origin of the island?

Not far from the domicile of the misbegotten
An illusory scene can not be forgotten Illusions, what is not really there or what is there but hidden?

A motionless body buried near agua’s source
Hidden in the alluvium by those with no remorse

4) Came a vagabond from the flat of the Hasinai
Across the ocean to the isle of the Igneri

His purpose untold
His manner too bold

The seer misguided and betrayed
By his confidant and islander aide Who was a confidant to whom and when was an aide needed?  The person that aided in the hiding of a body, perhaps?  The bifrons, that moved things around?

Thanks. As soon as I read that, I immediately thought of the Espionage posts.  My mind is always trying to tango...I can't help it.

(http://inlinethumb53.webshots.com/17332/2098800660076188600S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2098800660076188600BmIquT)

(http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/1450/1288915752044968257S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1288915752044968257hktLHF)

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/16446/1113092878043764711S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1113092878043764711ACpYWo)

(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/18380/2610909510076188600S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2610909510076188600DAzbBe)

(http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/19558/2330800230091413331S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2330800230091413331skGviw)

(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/321/1288917067044968257S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1288917067044968257DxRotH)

I wonder if those gates are ever locked...maybe during the night time hours?

Maybe but you could certainly climb over them easily enough, don't you think?

Thanks Lalas' seems the Dutch,Aruba and Suriname all have or had florins.

you took the question right out of my brain, mom
dennisintn

Sharon
Determining the 5th suspect is difficult when reading those archives.  Now, you know why I have been so confused by it all.  Keep reading...it never becomes any clearer. LOL

Aruba (Near San Nicolas)

Roughly 80% of Arubans are Roman Catholic, and parish churches dot the island. In Seroe Pretoe, near San Nicolas on the way from Arikok National Park, the Lourdes Grotto, a shrine to Our Lady of Lourdes, was built in the limestone rocks in 1958 to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the Virgin Mary's purported appearance to a peasant girl, St. Bernadette, in the south of France. Another grotto lies directly across the road. Neither is particularly noteworthy, probably because the local parish prohibits anyone from leaving candles, statues, pictures, or testimonials. Chartreuse parakeets inhabit the area.

Farther along the same road, the outback suddenly gives way to Aruba's second-largest town, San Nicolas. A phosphate-exporting port from 1879 until 1915, this town landed Esso's Lago oil refinery in 1924. Once the world's largest, the refinery attracted workers from other Caribbean islands, South America, and Europe. In 1942, U.S. troops landed to protect the complex, which supplied much of the Allies' aircraft fuel during the war. By 1951, the town had a population of 20,000, far more than Oranjestad at the time. The refinery closed in 1985, devastating the town and the island. It reopened in 1990 with a new owner, Texas-based Coastal Oil, which was then sold to Valero in 2004. Now that tourism has replaced oil as the island's major business, San Nicolas has waned in importance. One remnant of the town's "port atmosphere" deserves mention: Prostitution is actually legal in San Nicolas.

The center of Aruba's fishing industry, Savaneta is the island's oldest town and original capital. During the early Dutch period, its harbor was the safest place for ships, and in the mid-1800s, the area was known for breeding cochineals, insects that were crushed to produce the dye carmine. Retaining its salty tang, the town boasts a couple of good restaurants and a beachside spa.

On your way back home, you'll pass Hooiberg. At 162m (531 ft.), it may not be Aruba's highest hill, but it's the island's favorite landmark. If you have the stamina, climb the hundreds of steps (15-20 min.) to the summit; on a clear day, you can see Venezuela.

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/print-narrative.cfm?destID=176&catID=0176023225

Not only that, but who maintains that area?   Would any of the local suspects be involved in that?  The table that appears to be behind the area next to Mary, would most likely be the place they hold mass.  How large is that area there and does it have any underground rooms built in to the side of the hill.  Just exactly which hill is that?  Is there a water source near there?  How close is it to the refinery area?  The ISA?  How long would it take to drive from the Sloots to there?  From Lorenzo's to there?  Just exactly how much illumination is there at night and by what source?  Electricity? Lamps? etc?  Is it accessible by a quad racer from the back side? I could go on, but those are enough questions of which I do not have answers.

Chartreuse Parakeets?  I wonder what color their bellies are?  I wonder what they look like?  What kind of cacti is that in the photos?  Are there and feather palms in that area?   Isn't limestone caves usually wet?  More questions. Sorry. 

Just thought this was interresting:

http://www.bucuti.com/blog/?p=29

Aruba holds many hidden treasures - the legend of the underwater cross
August 2nd, 2007
Dr. Ryan Peterson is the Dean of the University of Aruba.  He is our keeper of Aruba’s history and treasures.  We’ve asked him to be a contributor to our blog.  I’m certain you’ll learn things in his stories about Aruba you would never know otherwise.   Please send me your thoughts. 

The Cross installed off the Esso Club in 1963 - written by John “Joe” van Ogrtop

The cross was installed in the summer of 1963 by Joe Van Ogtrop and Tres Dunlap.  Although Steve Fremgen was at the dock when the cross was blessed by Father Van Baars from St. Theresa’s Church and (for that matter my brother Dick Van Ogrop was also on the dock.)  Tres, I and Peterson (Aruban Fisherman and Dr. Peterson’s grandfather) were the only ones in the boat that took us behind the Esso Club to install the cross.  The pieces of the cross were lowered in the Caribbean from the boat of Peterson of San Nicolas.

(http://www.bucuti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/cross.jpg)

The Story Of The Cross:

Tres Dunlap and I had read an article in Skin Diving Magazine about a statue of Christ that had been installed in an underwater grotto off of the coast of Italy.  The Statue was made of bronze from thousands of medallions, and other pieces of bronze that were melted down and used to form the statue.  It was installed to protect swimmers, boaters and divers from the perils of the sea.

Tres and I decided to do the same thing off the Esso Club in the summer of 1963 and since we knew that we could not duplicate the statue of bronze, we thought of having a Cross made of cast iron pipe instead.  I do not recall whom we contacted or who exactly made the Cross, but we had it made in the refinery.  The Cross consists of 6 pieces that ultimately were put together underwater off of the Club in 40 feet of water.  The main section of the 8′ Cross has a plate welded to the bottom of the vertical section which is bolted into a matching late on the base which is made of a 2 foot section of cast iron pipe about 2 foot high and to complete the picture, there are 4 smaller 2 foot long sections of pipe that are bolted to the base of the Cross that give the Cross its stability and it has stayed upright and proudly protecting the waters behind the club since 1963

(http://www.bucuti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/crossoverside.jpg)

Father van Baars from St. Theresa’s church came to the ‘new’ docks to bless the Cross the day Tres and I installed it off of the Esso Club with the help of a fisherman friend and his boat.  Once we got to a spot we had randomly chosen behind the Esso Club, the six pieces of the Cross and a burlap bag of nuts and bolts and pipe wrenches were dumped overboard in the 40 feet of water in a sandy bottom area at the first dropoff about 30 yards from the edge of the coral.  After putting on our trusty Summer Recreation Program SCUBA gear, Tres and I went overboard and spent the next 30 minutes or so bolting the pieces together.  We also filled the large pipe base of the Cross with sand and broken pieces of coral to give it additional stability.

As I said earlier, the reason for the Cross was to protect the waters off of Aruba for the fisherman, swimmers, divers etc. who ventured out beyond the reefs.  Since Tres and I installed the Cross, I have been back about 6 times, the most recent being in June 2003 when our entire family came to Aruba for the Lago/Aruba reunion.  I was happy to see that the Cross was still standing as proudly as the day we installed it.  It has developed its own mystique now that it is completely covered with a thin growth of fire coral along with the sea fans and brain coral that cover the base of the Cross.  In addition, a pair of beautiful queen angel fish seem to have taken up residence at the base because as we visited the cross, they kept swimming all around us.

(http://www.bucuti.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/crosssteve.jpg)

 know that there have been all sorts of rumors as the reason for the cross, how it got there, who installed it, etc. but as Paul Harvey used to say,  “Now you know THE REST OF THE STORY

From the Kalpoes:

Freddy needs to tell the truth.

Hi just between patients, Lala'sMom that appears to be organ pipe cactus and century plants with the long tree like structures in one view.

Birds of Aruba - this is the only parakeet I find:

(http://www.wellsbirding.com/arubabirds/aboutBirds/images/Brown-throatedParakeetAruba.jpg)

BROWN-THROATED, OR CARIBBEAN PARAKEET
Aratinga pertinax

Visitors from northern climes will delight at seeing flocks of native, wild parakeets roaming the countryside, sometimes coming near some of the resorts that maintain native vegetation. Like most parakeets, these are loud, raucous birds that may appear first jetting by in a small, green flock. A closer view will reveal the beautiful bluish colors in the wings, the yellow under the tail, and the yellowish eye ring. Birds from Aruba are described as a distinct subspecies and are drabber than the subspecies from Curaçao and Bonaire, which have brighter yellow on the face and throat

San Nicolas – Sta. Teresita (Catholic)
Theresiaplein 8
Phone: (297) 584.5118
Fax: (297) 584.3196
Tuesday till Friday 6.30 pm
Saturday 7 pm
Sunday 8.30 am and 6.30 pm

Lalas, looks like the statue of the Virgin Mary is lit 24/7, but that doesn't mean the entire area is...

Lourdes Grotto, Aruba
 Andrew Weber
 Displayed: 114  times.

The population of Aruba is predominantly Catholic, a fact that can be seen by observing the number of Catholic churches located in all of the districts of the island. On a drive to the northeastern coast from San Nicolas, you'll drive by a unique Roman Catholic shrine built into the rocks.

The Lourdes Grotto was created under the guidance of a priest named "Erkamp" and parishioners in the year 1958. The grotto is located in Seroe Pretoe (black hill). The year 1958 was an important year as it was 150 years ago that the Holy Virgin appeared in front of Bernadette, as legend has it in Aruba.

Bishop Holterman blessed the statue from the Holy Virgin and Bernadette. The statue weighed 700 kilos and one Mrs. Maria Geerman played an important role in the development of the grotto. Eight people were needed to hoist the statue and place it in the grotto.

Mrs. Geerman's wish was to be buried in the same box that carried the Holy Virgin and this wish was granted. Elmar, the electrical company of Aruba provided a permanent light Pole, so that the statue would be illuminated throughout the night.
Every year, on February 11th (feast of Lady of Lourdes) a procession leaves from the St. Theresita church in San Nicolas to the grotto, where a mass is performed.

http://www.odyssei.com/travel-tips/3882.html

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/stteresita.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/zedancopy.jpg)

So true.

And I'm not even thinking Shango and the 5th suspect.  :lol:

I'm focused on Steve Croes. And why was he really arrested/detained/questioned. I don't buy the bs about overhearing Deepak -- or doing a favor for Deepak for $ -- or witnessing a fight on the beach as he told his grandmother  :roll: In one of Deepak's PV's, he says Croes was at C&C that night. But we haven't heard any more about that. So......was he there?

And Lorenzo -- why was he really detained/arrested/questioned.

The news broadcasts say that ONE of them (Steve or Lorenzo) was detained after the questioning of 2 Dutch brothers. Sander & Koen?? What did they say?

That's why, IMO, there are many answers hidden somewhere in that chaos.

The archive I was reading contained posts with the news as it was announced over Aruban radio.

Could this location relate to some of the Virgin quotes in Shango and other sources?

Hi Monks! Will someone please tell me what this say :shock:even with the online trranslations ...it makes me crazy trying to read it and figure out what it says.... :-?

San Nicolaas from Seroe Pretoe hillsite.  Lourdes Grotto is in Seroe Pretoe:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/san-nicolaas-from-seroe-pretoe-hill.jpg)

http://shw.fotopages.com/9689411/san-nicolaas-from-seroe-pretoe-hillsite.html

hahahaha...you got it all right!!

CRISTOFFER LAURANCE 24 AÑA TA SER BUSCA
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Famia di Cristoffer Laurance ta buscando su paradero. Cristoffer Laurance naci na Hulanda 28-08-1983 ta yiu di mayornan Arubiano.

Cristoffer Laurance ya caba pa un siman no a ser mira mas pa su mayornan. Pesey mes nan a notifica polis caba y te hasta a bay cerca amigonan pa haya sa unda exactamente nan por topa cu nan yiu.

Ningun por a duna e mayornan e contesta satisfactorio pa cual motibo nan a acerca polis y bati alarma


msmarples posted this yesterday I think.  24yr old Cristoffer Laurance has been missing for a week.

Very interesting Kiwi.

IIRC, there are 2 ways the 'virgin' comment is referenced -- Mary who WAS a virgin. and Mary who WAS NOT a virgin.

Thanks.

even some of the diehard RU-ers are telling her she is full of Chit!  I just wish there was some way Beth could sure her nasty A$$ and aruba wiould ship her off to someplace far away and remote....that piece of crap makes my blood boil....

hi Dennis...you hit the nail on the head for sure....

360 degree view of Lourdes Grotto - click on photo:

(http://dutch.aruba.com/images/vrlour1.jpg) (http://dutch.aruba.com/qtvr/lourdes.htm)

Klaas as badly as I hate to look at it...the snake is much more fitting  :D

A few new ones from jonathan45 (klaas -- if you prefer these in a seperate thread, please let me know)




Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject:

Joran's behaviour on Monday, May 30 2005.

About how Joran behaved and what he did during the days after the night Natalee vanished he reveals a lot in his last statement, his book.
Page 96, the begin of chapter 9, titled "The Lies".
Paulus woke him up at 6.15am. Joran slept for a short time, than he took a shower, put on new clothes and went [one hour sleep extra] together with his brothers by bus to school. During his stay at school after the lessons he slept in the '"ziekenkamer" van de school. At 3.00pm he took the bus back home where Rita, the maid was present. She did also the laundry [clothes, towels, sheets] that day.
He ate a sandwich, got to his apartment and took a shower again and watched television, called his dad to remind him about his tennislesson at the RC. When his dad came home and entered his apartment to say he was ready to go, they drove to the Raquetclub.
Joran did not took a tennislesson and made up a reason. Then he went to the fitnesscentre where he met Koen and others and talked about the evening and if they also were going to the poker tournament. Joran called his dad to ask permission to join his friends to the casino. Paulus gave him permission. After this call he went to the bathroom, pulled out his tennisshoes and put slippers on. Then he walked along the Salinja area to the Wyndham.
First he went to the Aruba Prime casino to play because he knew a lot of croupiers. It is as he wrote in his book at that moment 6.45pm.
At 7.00pm he is back in the Wyndham. There he saw Andre.
At 7.15pm the tournament began. After 20 minutes he is out of the game.
Then he needed to catch some money [[500 dollars] at home. Marco drives him to his house and back.
After he returned to the casino Joran played roulette [fiches again in the Aruba Prime Casino and poker in the Radisson casino. At that moment it is 11.00pm. There in one hour he has won 500 dollar but played on..
So he is playing because as he wrote he had good cards during the whole game. At 00.30am Tuesday May 31 Deepak called Joran and asked " where are you ?" In the Radisson. I am coming Deepak said.
Then Joran stated about Deepak's call in his book" I found it a bit weird, but did not thought about it at all, I had to concentrate on the game.

So after almost 24 hours after Deepak and Satish dropped the couple off at the VDSresidence it was Deepak who contacted Joran.
And it was Joran who used the word "weird" referring to this call.
When Deepak arrived in the casino, also Andre appeared. They watch how Joran played. On the table there was a player Joran knew. Joran page 98: We were constant talking and laughing during the game.

After that [in the end he wins still more than 200 dollars] game Deepak, Marco, Andre and Joran talked about what to do now.
Marco and Andre wanted to go home in Marco's car. Deepak suggested to Joran to go to Oranjestad to play blackjack.
When they are both underway in Deepak's car Paulus called to asked Joran where he was because Beth Twitty did arrive at the gate of the VDSresidence.

Joran did not talk on Monday about Natalee at all.
He not even talked to his friends about his full blown blind date on the beach.

In the car after his dad called him the first thing he said to Deepak: I don't gonna tell I left her on the beach.





Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject:

Normal as usual ?

Joran could not speak to his dad about the fact that he did not return at the usual time say around 10.30pm to go to bed on Mondayevening.
He did not told his dad about Natalee.
Paulus expected that Joran was brought home by Marco. His dad did not check his apartment nor called him before Paulus went to bed just like the day before, at 11.00pm as he stated.
Joran did not mentioned in his book that one of the familymembers saw or heard him or Marco's car when he went home around 8.00 - 8.30pm to collect some poker money.
So Joran met his dad twice that day. To wake him up and during a short drive to the RC.
Joran avoided a socializing situation in the familyhouse during the day.
No mentioning of talking to Valentijn or Sebastiaan too. In the schoolbus he had closed eyes. Anita, his mother was still in Holland.
He talked to some friends but as I posted already, he did not talk about his blind date the night before.

The intervention of Beth Twitty made it impossible to Deepak to talk about the framing 2.26am call or about the exchanged text and msn messages between the two friends.
Ofcourse Deepak was very interested in Joran's "weird" story about the girl and that he had left his shoes and the girl on the beach behind after a sexual encounter.

Joran decided not to tell anybody else what he told Deepak [2.26am call] about leaving Natalee on the beach.
He kept his promise till his best friend Freddy intervened by calling Anita to inform her about Joran's lying truth [HI lie].

It's time Deepak reveals his confusion after the crucial 2.26am call.

http://www.aruba411.com/attractions/san-nicholas.php

San Nicholas; the "Sunrise City"
Aruba Attractions
This quiet town, or at least what use to be a quiet fishing village began to grow in the late 18th century. San Nicholas has at times been twice the size of Orjanstad in revelation to population throughout the years. The population changes as does the workforce associated with the natural resources that are found in and around Aruba and Venezuela. Homes were built for workers for mining and for oil production, but when these companies left the area, so did the workers.

San Nicholas has many faces from those that once called it home; from the Arawak Indians to the British Caribbean. This is the largest and oldest city in Aruba and is located on the southeastern coast. It is home to many famous restaurants, clubs, and bars that were built during the various industrial booms that have occurred in San Nicholas. The most famous bar is known the world over for being the best place to party. Charlie's Bar is a wonderful piece of history and a great place for a drink and a meal. Decorated with items that visitors have left behind from shirts, flags from ships, baseball cards and other memorabilia make this bar a remarkable sight to see. The founders Charlie and Marie Brouns began this unique bar in 1941 and in 1977 Charlie was decorated by the Queen of Holland with the order of Oranje Nassau. Their address is Zepperfeldstraat 56, in San Nicholas. Their telephone number is 296-8-71517.

The Lourdes Grotto located in Seroe Pretoe or Black Hill as the local residents call it, is where many visitors flock to see the wonderful architecture, creation and inspiration of the priest "Erkamp" and his parishioners. This unique Grotto has its own legend that gives this area a special meaning to the local residents. The Grotto was built in 1958; 150 years after the Holy Virgin appeared to Bernadette. The statue of the Holy Virgin and Bernadette had to be put in place with the help of eight strong men, to hoist and place it is its resting place. Mrs. Maria Geerman had a large influence in the creation of this beautiful monument and her wish was to be buried in the box that once held the statue. She was in fact buried in the box according to her wishes. February 11th is feast of Lady of Lourdes and a parade is held on this day every year. It begins at the St. Theresita church had ends at the grotto where mass is performed.

The Aruba Golf Club is also located in San Nicholas. This is the favorite golf course for many golfers that visit Aruba. This golf course offers a 9-hole course with 20 sand traps and 5 water traps. It has ten beautiful greens that will enable an entire 18 hole game. Enjoying a tournament or two while you are in Aruba will be a great day of fun. The longest hole is 632 yards par 5 and the shortest 160 yards par 3. The clubhouse has a complete bar and workshop. For more information about reserving your tee time you can contact the Aruba Golf Club by telephone at (297) 584-2006 or by Fax at (297) 584-4473.

The Guadirikiri Cave is located in the San Nicholas area. This cave is just one cave that dots Aruba. You will enjoy seeing the cave drawings left behind by the Arawak Indians and hear the legends that have made this cave famous. The Fontein cave and the Baranca Sunu are also in this area. The Baranca Sunu Cave is better known as the "Tunnel of Love". Spend a day exploring these exquisite caves and see history unfold.

thanks Klaas.....ummmmm wonder if he had been at C&S's the day/night he went missing

This is all very interesting ...the grotto...I wonder if it was ever searched? I have a feeling it probably wasn't......what a perfect place to dispose of a victim

I understand. I wasn't thinking Shango either.  I think maybe Steve was being paid to say he saw the perps that night.  Or, he was put in jail to send a message to keep his mouth shut.

Lorenzo may indeed be the party host.  If Joran went to these parties, there would be reason to question Lorenzo.

Klaas,

The windows in the picture of St.Theresita front view do not match the pic of Freddy in church, but it could be a side view.  Did we ever have a picture of St. Anna or whatever the name of the church in Noord w/cemetery?  I guess I should have looked before asking.  I believe it's been posted.

That's EXACTLY what I've thought from Day 1.

And I don't think it was a coincidence that Paulus drove himself, I mean checked into, I mean was 'arrested' at the same time.

Gotta get those lieing stories straight :-x

Yes, we've posted those.  Nothing really striking that makes it look the the church Freddy is in.  I know the windows appear different but like you said, what we are seeing in the Freddy photo could be side windows.

I think to keep his mouth shut.  I think Deepak was with Joran and Satish was with Freddy.  Totally separate from each other and Steve saw this or at least saw Freddy there.

I found the Catholic Churches at this site:

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/community/religion.html

From my experience, the area where Freddy is walking would be to either side of the main altar or behind.  Not that it really matters which church...guess I just got caught up in detail.  :2doh:

What I saw in this post I have added in blue type.

That cryptic post has the directions wrong, it is the southeast side of the island.

Which has almost seemingly been ignored in searches while people scrabbled along the beach near the California lighthouse.

2 YEARS and all Aruba has done is show us where Natalee IS NOT.  :roll:

I also want to say that I agree that Beth needs to be a little more in the media. Right now we hear something about Natalee about once every 2 weeks or so and that is not enough to keep the case in the forefront.

Noticed the same, sb (highlighted in blue)....talk about lessons in geography...we've pretty much memorized the island over & over....and still are reexamining at ths point.

Sloot Dig

From FierlJepper @ Scrux

< snip> The thing that worries me about the "drug house party scene" is the fact that the KLPD did some digging at the VDS compound earlier this year. I know from some insiders in the Dutch legal system that you really have to possess a "much more than reasonable" suspicion to be allowed to do something drastic like this. They must have had a lead that was so convincing that they were entitled by the DA to start digging.

good point,and i feel that the grotto has water

Yep, KLPD knows

Thanks igsigs. Very interesting comment, although I don't buy into his theory.

One of my 'more random' thoughts about the search warrant for the Sloot place back when it would have made sense, being refused --had nothing to do with Natalee.

I wondered if Papa Wannabejudge had a stash of drugs -- or mega cash -- or weapons.

Ya know -- things that a capo or consigliere might need to have readily on hand.

Boy -- news is slow :D

Still praying for Justice for Natalee and her family and loved ones.

Nor do i. Freddy's (multiple, consistant, well detailed) statements stick a fork in most of these new theories. As does the Sloot dig, noted by FJepper himself.

Interesting reading nonetheless. And these newbies are not at a loss for words, that's for sure.  :wink:

In Peter De Vries first show he said the ALE now thought that Natalee was never taken to the beach but to the VDS home. He specificly mentioned that something may have taken place in the garden of the sloot house.. Could be more mis-information or was that directly from a credible witness? Since they were measuring the tree and the wall at the VDS search I think they were convinced they had a good witness with real info..

I posted this on the FP earlier this month and I noticed a few people on other sites ridiculing my post  :D

Just a small snip of the coverup orchestrated by Paul Van Der Sloot and his Friends. No doubt in my mind Rudy Croes and PVDS are up to there eyeballs in Natalee’s dissapearance.
Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005
GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?
MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with — and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.
Take a close look what a joke this Investigation is. The Police commish is best friends of Paul Van Der Sloot and worked for him years earlier. He even commented how can I do this to my best friends son? He was in constant contact with PVDS in the middle of a investigation and some of the conversations were even tapped. After he killed the Investigation,Authorities in Aruba said he was retiring to Holland as he had planned for many months. He then left to Bonaire and kept the same title. He gave his good Friend and Godson 10 days to destroy evidence,get there stories straight while he and dompig were framing two innocent men. What evidence has this man seen?
5-13-05-Jan Van Der Straaten tells Joran he will help him get into a Mental Institution instead of prison.
Tuesday night(5-14-05) during the broadcast of the most popular entertainment news program in The Netherlands, RTL-Boulevard, crime reporter John van den Heuvel announced that he talked to police commissioner Jan van der Straten, who is heading the investigation. The commissioner told van den Heuvel that they expect the case of Natalee Holloway to be solved within the next 24 hours.
6-11-05 Announcement was made that there was a confession and the suspect was leading them to the body. Deputy Chief of Police Gerald Dompig used his star witness(Drug dealing crack head brother in-law Buti Naar)to implicate two innocent men to divert attention away from the real suspects. This same crack head later said that he saw Natalee Holloway with drugs. In turn the ALE now says that she killed herself from a cocaine overdose. Both are flat out lies and the whole world knows it.
Also this same week Antonio Carlo visted the Chief Prosecuter Karen Janssen that Joran played a major role in the dissapearance of Natalee. What did she do with the information…Nothing!!
————————————————-
Both Carlo and Van Der Sloot were barred from seeing Joran and for good reason. However that was short lived as apparently PVDS toook Rudy Croes to court and won the decision. Even though both of them Obstructed a Investigation by talking to witnesses.
The Aruban newspaper, AweMeinta, opened their Wednesday edition with the following headline: “Tata di Joran cu caso kontra Ministerio Publico”, the translation of this headline is: “Joran’s father takes justice ministry to court”. The article relates that Joran’s father, Paulus van der Sloot, has lost his patience. Paulus van der Sloot is taking the justice ministry to court because Unlike Joran’s mother, he hasn’t been allowed to visit his son since his arrest. Van der Sloot is also mad because Joran’s attorney, Antonio Carlo, has been dismissed by the justice ministry. The case is supposed to begin today in Aruban court.
Also Friday, the court barred van der Sloot’s lawyer, Antonio Carlo, from visiting the teen, effectively removing him from the case, said Attorney General spokeswoman Mariaine Croes.
As a result, the van der Sloots retained two more attorneys for the defense of their son, Richie Kock and Arjan Debie.
The court granted prosecutors’ request to remove Carlo because he had visited one of two former security guards who had been detained and released in the case, authorities said.
Croes said the Dutch teenager has a team of lawyers, so Carlo’s removal will not leave them without representataion.
————————————————–
On August 30, 2005 Judge Smit issued a ruling that Joran should be held another 30 days, fled to Curacao and immediately faxed in a reversal of his ruling. Two weeks later he released all of the suspects,while ignoring incrimating evidence as well as a list of inconsistencies from the suspects.
————————————————–
DE VRIES: Well, the search in the home address of the family van der Sloot was very strange because the search warrant was made by head prosecutor Karin Janssen, and contained an allowance to search the whole address, “Montanja nineteen.”
So, the gardens, the buildings–everything.
But, when the police was on the spot, another high-ranking employee of the Justice office–it was Mr. Bob Witt–reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran–and that was very strange.
————————————————
Paul Van Der Sloot was allowed to Obstruct Justice by editing Jorans Transcripts,Talking to witnesses and Lied about a murder investigation. He called Natalee a corpse before she was even reported as missing. Instead of telling his son to tell the truth he told him to be quiet and lie about what happened. When all of Aruba was looking for the Missing Girl he hired a team of lawyers. He is seen on Video tape with Natalee just hours before she dissapears at the Casino. It is also proven he picked up Joran and Natalee at about 4AM on 5-30-05. A Witness had seen him as well as many witnesses including Police Officials heard it from his own mouth.. On 6-17-05 he then changed his statement and said he picked Joran up at 11pm. That same day he called a friend in N.Carolina and told her Natalee died after she hit her head and drowned.
He should have never been released as a suspect and been able to practice Law. He should be in prison!!It is proven he and his son were the last to see Natalee…So I have one question for Paul Van Der Sloot..What the hell did you do with Natalee Holloway??
http://www.carlolawoffice.com/attorneys/index.html
————————————————–
Joran van der Sloot: One day I will explain exactly what happened. But right now I don‘t feel ready to do that.
…………….
Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information.

Klaas, of course they know. They sat in on the interrogations. They have known since the 10th or so day that Natalee became a crime victim on Aruba. They have Jansen's 'boxes of evidence' that she hand delivered.

But are they going to do anything? I sure hope so. And then Robot will be right!!! :P

******* - as I said to you a few days ago, Paulus Van Der Sloot in any fashion involved in the Justice System is the height of chutzpah.

How can any Justice System be considered legit if that guy is involved in it?

Absurd isnt it? It's not just any Justice System its the Aruban Justice System and it's clearer than ever who has been pulling all the strings the last 27 months..The Minister of Injustice Rudy Croes..Notice how he changed his mind about retirement and has now decided to stay on for 2 more years..Is that because he would lose control of all the things he is covering up?? I'M sure he thought this case would be closed long ago..

Don't worry Paulus when the next election comes out in Aruba you won't be able to run with any of your buddies for any official title because you will be in prison where you belong.

Paulus says he *worked a little in the garden* in the evening (5/31). Not too much info to go on, but for a guy that cannot remember anything and never volunteers any info without prodding, maybe there is a witness that saw him *working* in or near the garden.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Pretzer092007.jpg)

Also, Fred Rosen discusses OJ’s latest ordeal. Listen live tonight at 9PM Eastern

Could very well be one of the neighbors..It doesnt appear that that the sloots were very friendly with any of them..IMO..Were they measuring around that wall from where a witness had been or is that where something bad happened to Natalee?

A man next door to the van der Sloots said he had lived there since van der Sloot was a boy but seldom had dealings with the family. "Always, they get in their car and go," said the 57-year-old teacher who did not want to give his name. "Maybe because he's a judge or something, he has a higher status."

I have always been interested in a post by one of the Aruban girls who were on here in the beginning that indicated that it was known around the island that something strange transpired in that neighborhood that night. As if people heard a commotion of some kind, noise, hollering, etc.

Nothing more has ever come of that and the local posters are long-gone, but it tells me that VDS home was where it all happened. Or at least, where it started to happen.

The whole PVDS- 4 AM thing just DOES NOT fit somehow... though I believe it did happen, I am not sure if was the start or the finish of the "proceedings". It seems like that HAD to be sort of a conclusion of things because from 4 AM to 6:30 is not really long enough for a body disposal and then get home and get ready for school the next day.

There's really no timeline that works for ALL the main events that have any outside corroboration at all. Nor is any event after Natalee got in that car, attested to or backed up with enough evidence to really be believable. The best we have is Beth's statement that Natalee was at VDS at 3 AM and if she said it, I think she must have had some factual basis for believing it.

That fact and the PVDS 4 AM evidence, that hour or so that has some kind of benchmark significance, cut a gigantic hole in that night and split it into 2 halves. There really wasn't enough time BEFORE that for things to transpire, and there wasn't really enough AFTER it. A complicated scenario of rave parties and beaches and boat rides and the like just almost can't fit in either half. So where do we go?

Hummm might this be the neighbor who came out of the house to tell Joran to lower the radio because her baby was sleeping.  Even though it was said it was another night I believe it was the night that Joran killed Natalee.  And she didn't come out of the house just for the radio being loud.  She heard screaming.

Thanks for this information. What are century plants?  I have never heard of them?

One POSSIBLE solution, of sorts:  IF Beth is referring to 3 AM ALABAMA time. IF there was that highly-questionable phone call at 3:15 ALABAMA time... this could represent Natalee's ARRIVAL at PVDS home AFTER being picked up wherever by the failed judge wannabe at 4 AM ARUBA time which was 1 hour ahead of Alabama time. Maybe.

Y'all take it from here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maguey

(http://www.islandgazette.net/photo/pictures/images6-29-2005/Page-1B-Century-Plant.jpg)

What type of garden was it?  Could there be a masive amount of blood in the garden.  Did they wash something off in the garden rather than getting blood on the concrete.  Was Paulus turning over the dirt to make sure there were no signs of blood.

Edited to add:  Was he putting chemicals in the garden to throw off the scent of blood.

We have heard for months now that that were conducting tests on the soil samples most likely taken from that garden..I think it's quite clear that was one of the main places they wanted to look at..If there was dried blood in that soil..What are the odds they could find it and prove it was Natalee's two years later?

Here is the Pic from the search at the VDS house...Were they measuring from where a witness saw something or did something happen from this spot?

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/NATALLEE6_small.jpg)

Leaks  -  6/8/05

PENHAUL: We do hear from police sources, however, that the three men, at least one of them, says that they did go to the beach with Natalee.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/08/ng.01.html

So the beach story is leaked to Penhaul, on 6/8? The sporter must have choked out that info on 5/31.  

It is more than a little interesting that Guido gave two statements on June 7th ( notice that he was leaving) and June 8th. Then JK2 arrested June 9th.  Maybe sporter only leaked to friends...

Sorry I messed up that post/quote. San- in many cultures (Brit. etc.) "garden" is yard.

24 ORA seems to be saying there was an explosion on Curacao that has killed 5 people. Looks like it happened on the cargo docks.

http://www.24ora.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

Explosion na Curacao cu varios morto

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/2289/6/

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E3hZJbZgA0

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/sep18/botofront.JPG)



Diahuebs mainta na Curacao Dry Dock a constata un explocion den e boto Seamec 2 cu ta un boto registra na Mumbay y ta e tipo "Diving Support Vessel". Diferente persona a keda herida y te awe tardi tatin un total di 5 caso fatal confirma. Tatin diferente persona cu a wordo transporta pa hospital y inoficialmente nos por compronde cu mas persona a fayece. Click read more pa e relato completo!

Tabata awe mainta pa mas o menos algu pasa di shete ku trahadornan di Dok i tambe algun persona ku ta trafika of biba den e besindario a skucha un zonido duru ku a bin for di un barku ku tabata drechando na nos Dok Maatschappij. Esaki a trese sigur un paniko entre e diferente trahadornan di e otro departamentunan. Un ratu despues a surgi otro eksploshon.  Ta aki nan a bin tuma  nota ku tin hende ku a resulta herida i benta for di e barku. Mesora a avisa brandweer i kuerpo polisial i tambe Cems kendenan mester a hanja ajudo di Rode Kruis ya ku a trata aki di kalamidat. Outoridatnan a bin deskubri e kurpanan sin bida i ku tur ta pertense na yunan di tera.
E noticia aki a plama mesora i esaki mes a pone ku  famianan ku tin un ser keri ta traha na Dok i ku no a tende nada di esaki , mesora a yega na entrada di Dok. Outoridatnan ta tin man yen pa por a kontrola e situashon ku a presenta na porta di Dok. Mester a regla e trafiko por kompleto pa por a hanja pase pa e ambulans i tambe brandweer i outoridatnan kendenan mester a yega na e sitio.   
Tabata den oranan di merdia numa ku famianan por a bai na un kasa mortoria pasina indentifika nan famia.
Esnan ku a bin perde nan bida den e tregadia aki ta di fam: Martina, Lucia, Alexsia, Martis i Rog.
Investigashonan ta kontinua den e kaso aki pa sa kiko por a okashona e aksidente lamentabel aki, ku a kosta morto di 5 yu di tera.

Informacion cortesia di Kitatin

Through translator:

diahuebs morning at curacao dry dock owing to constata one explocion in the boat seamec 2 cu is one boat registra at mumbay y is the type "diving support vessel". various person owing to stay injury y till today tardi tatin one overall of 5 caso fateful confirma. tatin various person cu owing to wordo transporta for hospital y inoficialmente we can compronde cu more person owing to fayece. click read more for her relato completo! was today morning for more or less something happen of seven with trahadornan of dok and also some person with is trafika or live in the besindario owing to skucha one sound hard with owing to come for of one barku with was drechando at we dok maatschappij. this owing to bring assure one paniko among the various trahadornan of the another departamentunan. for a while after owing to surgi another explosion. is here they owing to come take notice with have person with owing to resulta injury and throw for of the barku. at once owing to avisa brandweer and kuerpo polisial and also cems kendenan have to owing to hanja ajudo of rode kruis already with owing to deal here of catastrophe. outoridatnan owing to come deskubri the kurpanan without life and with all is pertense at yunan of ground. the news here owing to plama at once and this self owing to place with famianan with have one being keri is work at dok and with not owing to hear nothing of this come across, at once owing to arrive at entrance of dok. outoridatnan is have hand complete for can owing to kontrola the situashon with owing to present at door of dok. have to owing to regulation the trafiko can absolute for can owing to hanja pase for her ambulance and also brandweer and outoridatnan kendenan have to owing to arrive at the sitio. was in oranan of afternoon numa with famianan can owing to go at one marry mortoria pasina indentifika they family. esnan with owing to come lose they life in the tregadia here is of fam: martina, lucia, alexsia, martis and rog. investigashonan is kontinua in the affair here for know what can owing to okashona the accident regrettable here, with owing to cost dead of 5 child of ground. informacion cortesia of kitatin come across

screen capture. man down.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Curacaodockexplosion.Mandown192020072.jpg)

5 members of a repair crew were killed by an explosion in the inners of an (oil)tanker where they were repairing said ship.

That's horrible.  Did they have more explosions or just the one? 

Klaas, looking at the scene .. it looks like it was massive.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Curacaodockexplosion9-20-20074.jpg)

That's terrible  :shock:

totally.. so sad to see 5 people have died just doing their jobs. I'm sure they will be missed.

From Scrux:

Miranda wrote:


Medleyrelay wrote:



If that were true, why would Joran take Natalee to such a place to begin with MEDLEY???  
 

igsigs ... I agree and ... Deepak and Satish's statements concur.

Janet

++++++++++++++


Deepak Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no.


Satish Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car.


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

At approximately 12.30 my dad and me had arrived at Bubali police station. I was interviewed as a witness. I cannot remember that in my statement I had said that I had been at Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. I might be possible that I stated that.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, we‘ve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. We‘ve had falsified documents. I mean, we‘ve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers‘ statements. We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

Thanks Klaas.  Is that the same kind of plant they dug up at the Sloots?  I can't remember.

Lala's - yes there was discussion that the plant at the sloot might have been a Century plant.

On June 7, 2005 ... prior to Joran, Deepak and Satish's detention ... cartoonist ...  diberardo ... had to have been privy to inside information pertaining the the Marriot Beach drop off.  At that time the world was still being fed the Holiday Inn drop off.  Hey ... Joran, Deepak and Satish's June 9, 2005 suspect statements imply the Holiday Inn dropoff.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++++

http://cartoons.diberardo.com/recent-political-cartoon/girl-murdered.php

Search continues for teen missing in Aruba
Government workers join hunt for Alabama woman
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 Posted: 9:37 AM EDT (1337 GMT)

I have read these 2 very important days on just about every blog on the internet. To me it was a very important part of the investigation and although its clear who they are talking about it's not clear who the 5th suspect is.. It makes no sense why they waited a week to pickup SGC for his fake alibi..Nor do I believe LVR was picked up because of a Psychic or a phone call about Natalee's clothes in his basement..Same thing for GVC a year later about BS from a taxi cab driver..Makes me really wonder what the 2 dutch brothers did indeed tell the ALE? Did they implicate SGC and LVR? PVDS? Doesn't it seem like everything changed after June 18th?

Also I have been looking at this..Says he was missing 2 days from work..Would that be the 16th and 17th(thu and fri) or 17th and 18th? Either way it was reported his wife saw the mess in the home on morning of the 18th after working all night and called the ALE..Why not the day before then if he was missing 2 days? Also reported 2 men had helped her but only she was convicted of the crime and was appealing the case..Makes you wonder if she is still even in prison??

What day were the Gottenbos questioned?

5-16-05 SGC Arrested 8am
5-16-05 LVR Detained for questioning and released
5-18-05 Rene's Body found in the Govt cemetary

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/renemurder.jpg)

*******, I am a couple pages behind, but I would question these dates....

Again, I think you may just have mistyped....

last I read was that they were still trying to put out the fire.

*******,

Koen and Sander were both questioned on June 16 and 17, 2005.  Koen was requestioned on June 20 and Aug. 30, 2005.

Gag, taco-boy's on O'Reilly sticking up for oj.

Taco No-Bueno is on the WRONG side of every case.

SB - I'm not watching but it figures he would

 :cool:

 :shock: :shock: :shock:

Where have you been Robots?

*******, I just messed up my reply...no matter how hard one tries to reply beyond the quote...well, you know...and I'll see ya later...

Hehe..I hear ya..Your right on one of the dates..PVDS was arrested the the 23rd not the 18th!! The other two are correct..

just
causing trouble  :lol:

Well it's good to see you!

In the Natalee Holloway case ... other than the security guards ... there were only seven suspects who were arrested ... held in pre-trial detention. All the rest were considered witnesses who were brought in for questioning and immediately relesed ... Lorenzo included.

Janet


Joran, Deepak, Satish, Steve Croes and Paulus
FOX NEWS
June 24, 2005

Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.


Geoffrey van Cromvoirt (GVC)
ABC NEWS
April 24, 2006

Geoffrey van Cromvoirt, 19, has been released into the custody of his parents after spending more than a week in an Aruba jail on suspicion of "criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance" of Natalee Holloway.


Guildo Wever
FOX NEWS
May 22, 2006

Guido Wever, an Aruba national, is expected to face charges Tuesday in a Dutch courtroom connection with the disappearance of the high school senior. Wever's lawyer, Gerard Spong was expected to file a suit Monday to prevent his extradition to the Caribbean island on charges of "assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen

++++++++++++++++++

Arlene Ellis-Schipper
NANCY GRACE
July 20, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system. You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion. After a maximum of 146 days, the prosecution must determine the criminal offense that has been committed and make an official summation for court. And God forbid that they cannot determine what criminal offense has been committed, the case remains open, and it can remain open for a whole number of years, actually, until the due process, the international rules about due process, up to two years


Noraina Pietersz - Defence Attorney
Associated Press
June 9, 2005

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.

re:Joran writing his book in english

Trixie wrote:
He should record the book in English and have it where people could buy it by downloading it. I wonder if that is possible?



smartlap wrote:
http://www.ebooks-made-easy.com/


I hear that medley is writing a book of some sort, maybe she can guide him?

http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/about11171-0-asc-275.html

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

*******

June is the 6th month.  Your quotes are dated May (5th month).

Ah jeez...this should be a thriller.  :-?  Any title yet...

My Dinner with Paulus!

or...

Dial M for Murder Medley

?

 :lol:We could start a thread like they use to do @ FOB..."Titles for medley's new book" :lol:

http://www.amigoe.com/english/ (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)   09/20/2007

Amigoe has a story about the explosion on the ship that was being repaired. This is at CURACAO, not Aruba.

Explosion on ship in dockyard with five casualties

WILLEMSTAD – In an explosion that took place this morning around 07:40 on the ship Seamec II that was docked at the Curacao Dry-dock Company (CDA), at least five people were killed and six injured lightly.  The people that died are all locals.  Some of them have been working for more than 20 years for CDM.  The youngest one was 20 years old.

The official number of casualties is five, but chances are that more victims may be found inside the ship.  There was a press conference in the building of the Island Council at 17:00 this afternoon.   

The Seamec II entered the port of Curacao last week Wednesday for reparations in the dockyard. 

(more at link)

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/21/ (http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/21/)


Online Pap translation:

arm, drugs y coin confisca…
atracadornan violento deteni cu team of aresto

accion at butucu y rooi bosal…

oranjestad(aan): for enough day end daily paper was pendiente for they detencion. here is deal of atracadornan cual for daily paper already end was conoci y cu till even was wardando the instant exact for they place hand on they.

the atracadornan here is envolvi in the casonan on several comerciante chinese at home y business where owing to throw, comete maltrato earnest contra chinesnan y till even one agent policial. owing to steal one car bmw of chinese bay cune without talk self of sumanan of more cu 200 thousand guilder.

in one accion esnan of team of aresto owing to succeed place hand on the two first atracadornan while cu can wait for more detencion during day. at one cas at butucu y also at rooi bosal the team of aresto owing to enter y detene esnan envolvi.

owing to achieve coin, drugs, arm pisa y arm of kelki cual owing to being using for comete atraco. daily paper owing to succeed achieve photograph at once of the detencionnan for so all aruba can see kendenan is envolvi in the casonan earnest cu atraco cu violencia.

* * *

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b367/cli2/jeweltheft_2.jpg)

Online Pap translation:

two thief owing to hit one joyeria in havenstraat!
police owing to grab thief of jewel

oranjestad (aan): diahuebs afternoon, two man owing to enter in one joyeria situa in havenstraat. the instant ey was have some employee present cu was help cliente. the hombernan all of a sudden owing to hinca hand in showcase y owing to grab enough prendanan, incluyendo ring of diamanta, y owing to core bay.

gerente owing to look at y owing to also owing to core behind the ladronnan, y this owing to trece one consternacion in cayanan rond of royal plaza.

the ladronnan owing to ‘split’ of another. esun flaco owing to bay in one direccion, y the another one bit bold owing to bay for royal plaza y follow for parada of bus.

for his malasuerte, one agent policial pasando eybanda also owing to start cu persecusion, y behind the aruba trading in weststraat they owing to succeed of grab the thief bold. the gordura owing to strobe of core more duro!

is deal of the sospechoso peter f. cu still was have part of the botin in his power. according owner of “majesty jewelers” do not first trip cu he here owing to comete one acto similar in his establecimento.

the value of the prendanan according calculo is in careda of 20 thousand guilder. the another sospechoso owing to succeed of huy y apparently the will is conoci y do not exclui cu one hour for another will place hand also on dje.

while have of remarca cu the molester constante cu have of chollernan in havenstraat y vecindario of for day is stop become one pester.

For those that were watching, last night GLENDA was on a rant at RU.  I don't know if she was just in an angry mood or maybe had too much to drink.  In any case, she may have let something slip.  The conversation at the time was about Charles Croes and Beth's book:

Glenda Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:23 pm

And you can knock of the Bull Shit! Betty tried to discreted CC as a psychic and Julia stopped her in her tracks. Her "omg statement" that an aruban psychic told me that my daughter gave the son of judge head in the back seat of a car and then accidently died in Seroe Colorado after stating that she didn't want to return to Alabama and called her mother Hitler.

The answers are all in the first days, I've repeated many times, exactly what I was told by Betty in the first days.  


The question is why did Glenda/Renfro say SEROE COLORADO??

Also from Glenda/Renfro at RU:

Glenda Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:25 am   

Betty said that Joran has keys to the school and takes girls there all the time, that he had a reputation for sleeping at the school after parties so he wouldn't be late to school the next day. Don't know where she got that info, but it later turned out to be not true like many other stories she told.  

Followed by a post from Siddalee (Renfro's mom).  Interresting because I don't think anyone was accusing Glenda of this at all:

Siddalee Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:31 am   

WOW! Looks like a couple of Refugees are getting a little nervous about what may be coming out of Aruba next - so now let's pretend to be all knowing and slam anyone from Aruba who happens to have been there and spent many hours talking with the principals in this case. Or, do you guys really think Glenda could - and would - hack Sneaky Pete's computer? Why is that even being brought up now? How ridiculous. Guess things were getting a little boring around here - so boring we were even asking each other why we are still here and how long are we going to keep this up - so let's stir up some bad feelings with an bunch of inane accusations. Gwen (or whatever nic for the moment) sure had her fangs out.

Good going, Glenda. Just save the rest for the big day - don't waste it here.  

I vote for too much to drink.

I agree it is interesting that she mentions SEROE COLORADO here.  Makes me wonder if there truly was something said about that location in the early days, or if she said it because she reads here and is feeding off the what is said here.  Either way, I think she is a nut case.  It's hard to know when to pay attention to anything she says.

Yes Klaas, it continues on this morning, too. I think Julia/Glenda doesn't like being questioned. I mean everything she's posted up til recently has been gospel over there. :roll:

Yes I see Iquitos just questioned why Siddalee brought up Stinky Pete too.  Seems like Glenda and Siddalee are doing a pre-emptive strike before Beth's book comes out.  I can't wait to get my copy  :lol:

Today's chapter, if anyone else is watching and enjoying this as much as I am.

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=39

Jonathan45:
Monday May 30 2005 between 7.15pm and 10.00pm

Am I entering the "greyzone" again ?

In his book Joran wrote on page 97 that Marco told him that he had to work till 10.00pm that evening in the Holiday Inn Exelsior casino. After work Marco would come to the Wyndham casino to meet his friends Joran and Andre who were playing a tournament in a pokerroom.
On page 98 Joran wrote about his own activities between the start of the tournament at 7.15pm and the moment he went to the casino and saw Marco who asked him if he had won.
Joran's timeline from 7.15pm:

- After ten minutes I lost.
- He buys himself in to play again.
- After ten minutes he lost again.

Then Joran described that he watched Andre's pokerplay. He saw that Andre would also lose within a short time. He told Andre that he will wait for him in the casino of the Wyndham.
Joran [ page 98] walked out of the pokerroom and then he saw Marco who asked him if he had won. "I lost Joran answered.
Then Marco asked Joran if he wanted to go to the Radisson Casino to play for cash.
Okay Joran said, but first i need to catch some money back home.

Joran wrote: Marco and I walked out of the Wyndham and we drove to my house in his white Nissan Centra.

Though around 8.00pm/8.15pm Joran went out of the pokerroom to the Casino in the Wyndham at a time Marco should be at work in the Holiday Inn Casino till 10.00pm as he told Joran.

Was Marco really till 10.00pm at work in the Holiday Inn Casino ?
Did Joran wrote this timeline story on purpose ?
Is there a timeline gap of almost two hours that mondayevening and just hours before Beth Twitty arrived at the gate of the VDSresidence ?
Did Marco perhaps played a role in a refuneral/disposal of Natalee's body during this timeline gap ?
Was Marco ever questioned about his whereabouts on Monday evening ?

Chapter 17 page 255: Marco D., a local Aruban boy and a friend of Joran was arrested on wednesday May 17 2006 in The Hague, the Netherlands and he was interrogated many times in Utrecht by the KLPD investigators in this unsolved case.
Marco as the "scarfaced" friend who fled to Holland as 5 collegues stated to the police in february 2006.

Just a few days after the missing of Natalee Holloway the police already interrogated Marco as Joran's friend three times.
On May 23 2006 Marco was released. Mr. Spong, his lawyer convinced the judge with his arguments.
Joran confirms in his book that he and Marco did not call eachother anymore since his release.

Another hidden 'suspicious' lying truth story ?

I have a feeling all hell will break loose when Beth's book hits the shelves...if it says what I expect it to say.

I have mine pre-ordered too. :lol:

Ohhh, I see Stinky Pete misses Glenda (click on play)  :lol:

http://www.mushygushy.com/S6RHYB

Thanks, Buckeye.  This is exactly what I was trying to point out.  All dates I highlighted/bolded were dated May & before Natalee was even there.

prolly cause she knows Beth's book is hitting the streets today.... he he he!!!

Today?  I thought October 2nd?

I'll have my copy later today.. Walmart has it for 20 smackers!!!

It's already at Walmart?  That's almost $4 more than the Amazon price though. 

I believe in Grande's conversations with CC he denies being a psychic. It's been a long time since I have read that stuff...but it could be in there...

I'd pay 40 bucks to have it today... :D

ROB - I think that whole clairvoiyant thing was nothing more than a translation issue.  I think it's nothing.

yes  - - - intermediary 

Klaas ... I agree.  I speculate that "mediator" was translated from Benvinda de Souza's letter to Karin Janssen into "clairvoyant".  When your consider that a clairvoyant is often referred to as a "medium" ...

IMO

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++


Benvinda de Souza
LETTER TO KARIN JANSSEN
June 23, 2005

This must have been around 1:30 am on May 31st. From Carlos & Charlie’s the group went to Valero Boulevard. There mr. Charles Croes presented himself, who introduced himself as a clairvoyant.


Charles Croes
February 21, 2006

I have received mail over the week-end as well as personal contacts and comments. If the following means nothing to you, then take it from me that it means just that … nothing. The best thing is to move on. I unfortunately need to respond.

NO - I am not a clairvoyant. It is insane to think I am

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=48758#post48758

Janet - exactly.  That's why I find it almost humorous that RU and Glenda are even making an issue out of this. 

where is Seroe Colrado_

Southern tip of the island, closer to Joran's school and Lorenzo's house.  Also closer to where they found the bloody mattress/security shirt/lysol bottle:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Lourdes.jpg)

Sounds like Beth's book may be on the shelf at Walmart today.  I'm going to take a trip to Walmart.  Be back in a bit.

Does we have a thread with all of Espionage's posts anywhere?

Or does someone have them all? I thought I did -- but I don't :-?

And 'search' comes back and tells me that there's nothing meeting my criteria :roll:

And for some reason, I can't seem to find Espionage on the SM 'members' list -- so I can't even find the posts that way.

TIA

Not sure Sharon, but thought they were brought over from the front page.

Sharon page 5 under Natalee Holloway heading in index. Not sure if that's what you're looking for.

I thought so too, Mum.  I thought someone put them all together in a thread.

But I can't find it with 'search' -- and I can't even find the poster's name in the member list anymore :-?

I must be having a senior and blonde moment together -- and I'm not a blonde :sad:

The site still loads each page really slowly for me -- so maybe I just don't have the patience right now and should try again this evening.

And I've already forgotten what it was that I was so 'hot' to re-read  :roll: It was important at the time. Really it was :lol: :lol: :lol:

That area of the island can also be the origin of the 'want to see sharks' statement Joran attributed to Natalee.  I had felt from the beginning and have posted such long ago, that they may have gone in that direction rather than toward the California lighthouse. 

I found one article that said sharks are mostly in the northern portion, but just found one that states eastern (actually northeast would be accurate).  Sand sharks from what I have been told are harmless...

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Caribbean_and_Central_America/Aruba/Warnings_or_Dangers-Aruba-BR-2.html

It is an upmost heard question "if there are sharks in the water". Ofcourse my dear, sharks do live in the ocean all over the world. The moment you enter the ocean in Aruba or anywhere, you become part of the food chain. Find most of the sharks on more of the East side of the Aruba island, where the island dumps a lot of it's trash. Visit the Andicouri Bay, or try the eyecatcher of the Natural Bridge. Here the tourists may watch meat-food to sharks ans swimming here isn't that realistic ... For shark-lovers; you can get really close to sleeping nurse and sand sharks at the Shark Caves. Usually they sleep during the day and, allowing humans to get closer you may even touch them ... though better leave the sharks and donot bother them ... heehee

**********

Here is a map showing Shark Caves, etc.  Punta Basora is also mentioned where hammerhead sharks, stingray & barracuda can be seen...(Natural Bridge area)....just trying to pull some of this together, even if it's off course. :wink:

 http://www.visitaruba.com/attractions/sunandfun/diving_b.html#10

http://www.visitaruba.com/attractions/sunandfun/diving_b.html#10

Thank mum!!!! I will go look now. And probably copy everything to my PC  :lol:

(I didn't have the time/patience to get to page 5)

Your Welcome, sharon.  I found what I was looking for this morning while I was looking for you!

Just in case your patience wears thin:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=564.0

2NJ & Mum

Thanks so much!

I'm just having a feeble day :-? Must have been the picture of that book cover "Brain Fog" that I was dreaming about last night :lol:

I know Espionage was a front page poster, but I couldn't even remember if he posted INSIDE the forum. I thought he did. I think I'm wrong :D

I've got the whole thread now -- thanks to you 2 {{{hug}}}

Anyone know where to get Beths Book? Is it available now?

BOC on a fly By!! :wink:

BOC - someone is saying that Walmart has it now.  I just checked my Walmart and it's not in the store yet.  Of course you can always order from Amazon too.

Beth's book is not at our local Walmart yet either..My daughter works there and I had her check for me. Maybe it's in the larger city stores if it's out?

Maybe Rob will confirm later, whether he actually was right about his Walmart having the book today. 

I searched my state and the earliest I can get it will be from Amazon or Barnes and Noble. I noticed there was another book out about Natalee  :shock:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=natalee+holloway&z=y

Loving Natalee: A Mother's Testament of Hope and Faith

List Price: $24.95 Available for Pre-Order
This item will be available on October 2.
 
Online Price: $19.96 (Save 20%)
 
Members Pay: $17.96 Join Now
Free shipping on 25$ or more for selected items
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Into the Deep: The Hidden Confessions of Natalee's Killer
by Andrew G. HodgesPub. Date: August 2007

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/intothedeep.jpg)
Online Price:
$15.25   Save 10%
Members Pay:
$13.72
From the Publisher
"He tried so hard to hide the truth!"

He is Deepak Kalpoe, one of three prime suspects in the May 30, 2005 disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway on the tiny Caribbean island of Aruba.

Five days after the attractive blonde vanished, Kalpoe wrote a lengthy and ultimately revealing email to a friend. That email-between the lines- tells the whole sordid story of Natelee Holoway's last night on earth.

Forensic psychiatrist Andrew Hodges utilizes a pioneering method of "thoughtprint decoding" based on the unconscious mind's universal urge to tell the truth. In Kalpoe's email Hodges found a greatly detailed and graphic unconscious confession-the real story of what transpired that dark night on the white, sandy beaches of Aruba.

Decoding Deepak's hidden messages scene by scene, he unlocks a Pandora's Box of sexual seduction, deceit and depravity.

Prepare yourself for shock after shock as you delve "Into the Deep" to learn what really happened to Natalee Holloway on that awful night in Aruba - a paradise that suddenly turned into her own personal hell.



Author Description
Psychiatrist Andrew Hodges' pioneering new method of forensic profiling (thoughtprint decoding) has been praised by law enforcement experts, including FBI agents, as the "cutting edge of forensic science." Hodges shows how suspects unconsciously confess between the lines (in both written and oral communications). Called the ultimate 'mindhunter,' he authored two highly acclaimed books on the JonBenet Ramsey case.

 
   
 

 
 
 
 

Walmart.com has it too.  I've already ordered it through Amazon.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5820218#About+the+Book

 :shock:

Thanks *******. I had never seen that before.

I guess the ironic part of this -- is that Deepak didn't write those emails.

Most likely Paulus -- or Anita -- did. Or it was 'quoted' to him.


Deepak -- tell the truth. It will set you free. Really.

Ok, I have the book... it was $17.34

on the back there are some very nice pictures of Natalee, Beth and Grandma Reynolds. Natalee on the motorcycle.
Beth, Natalee and Matt when they kids were a little bit younger. I guess Natalee is about 15 or 16 in that picture.
A pic of Beth walking to a small Aruban Church and Natalee in the center in her Cheerleading  / Rockette type outfit.

The book is 234 pages long.

On the inside back cover there is a beautiful picture of Beth. She looks totally awesome. Very beautiful picture. I notice in that picture she is wearing a Natalee bracelet - color blue... like the ones I wear.

In the center of the book there is a picture section. I have not seen some of these pictures. There is a beautiful picture of Natalee with a sheltie or collie. There are a bunch of pictures you will all be familiar with.

There is a page with a letter from Natalee that predicts her life. It is hand written.
There are pictures all the yellow ribbons.
There is a picture of the suspects.
OMG.. I see the picture from the prayer service in front of the HI. (I was there for that and remember when Beth tied a string bracelet on little Marlee's wrist).

I see the wall of hope picture.

I see a beautiful picture of Dave and Natalee when she was about 3 or 4. And some of Natalee at the beach.

The acknowledgment says that Jamie Skeeters suggested to Beth to write a book first. He is the one that mentions it.

The book is dedicated to Beth's mother (Ann Reynolds) and her late father (Paul Reynolds).

There are 15 chapters. And I see one titled 'The Call'.

Thx Klaas..Appears they have the best price also and says in Stock
$17.78 includes shipping but not sales tax

Well ROB - get to reading, lol  :lol: