Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

Now I can go vacuum :lol:

Hi,
I found an old thread that has some interesting posts:
http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-25629

They talk quite a bit about the Valero refinery.  I didn't realize the Refinery is right next door to the International School.

Really?  In one of the statements Joran's teacher said he help him move stuff afterhours.

Hi Monks!  Did anyone miss me! :D   I have had unexpected company for the past WEEK! :shock:   I have been reading the FP to try to keep up....

New cage and of course I did get the topic locked on old thread. Of course I forgot to copy my post before I submitted. LOL

AZlady for some reason I seem to remember there is also an incinerator there.

I downloaded google earth beta the other day, have not really figured out how to use it except to look at my area. How often is it updated? Surely we are not seeing the world via satallite in real time. Anyhow, I am about to wander around Aruba

Hi San...I thought the teachers during jurine off hours...I took that to mean during school but not in class..perhaps I misunderstood

Next time you have a long post type it in word and then copy and past it in a post.  If it gets locked at least you will still have what you typed.  When I transcribe I type it in word just in cast I may lose my connection or something strange happens.

Sunny, when Tim Miller was in Aruba was he able to search the waters near the International School and the Refinery?

Hi Sunny, Nice to see you back.

I am always glad to get back and see what new info is out there.

Off hours to me means after school.

Refinery

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/Refinery1.jpg)

Just north of the Refinery

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/Refinery2.jpg)

The airport

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/Airport1.jpg)

Nice picture of the Plaza, CnC and Cruise Ship area

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/PlazaCruiseCnC.jpg)

By the way Hi Sunny.

Thanks San for the info. For all the links I found last night, I sent myself emails so I did not lose them. I have also done that for a post here before.

Someone please tell me what is niggling at me about this post that I can't put my finger on:

"To: monkeywrench
Aruba Lions Club
OUR WEB SITE : Our nice Web site was planned and built by our dynamic member Ln. Satish Daryanani, owner of the Aruba Internet Cafe and Aruba Digital City (www.arubadc.com), and is continuously revised, upgraded and kept updated by the members of the Aruba Lions' Administrative Cttee for Information Technology. The Aruba Lions expresses words of sincere appreciation to FL Satish for this magnificent state-of-the-art piece of ingenuity and also thank PDG PCC Frank H. Croes for his support and aid in feeding our Web site with updates about zone, district E-1 and multiple district E and other Lions information.


1,626 posted on 08/17/2005 3:15:47 PM PDT by TexKat "

Whodunit I am sending prayers your way that you all don't get any flooding damages. Sounds as if you are gonna get a lot more heavy rains your way.

I pray for all those in the line of Ernesto.

God bless you and yours and keep you all safe,

dkpen~

Ok who tripped over the cord and unplugged the server again? <looks around the monkey cage>  I told you all before no monkeying around!!! :lol:

Server Pronto was down for a bit, looks like all is OK now.

Back to business as usual.


The Missing Child: Remote Viewing Christina White

Many of you may remember Operation Goldeneye, a mission undertaken by Major Ed Dames and his professional team of Remote Viewers to locate and recover evidence in the 'cold case' of a missing girl, Christina White. This project was spoken about on the national radio show, Coast to Coast AM, but until now, all of the field footage was kept under wraps due to the ongoing investigation.

Finally, after a year of secrecy, the actual in-the-field footage and the shocking results from this unique missing child case will be released!

The behind-the-scenes footage of Major Ed Dames and his professional Remote Viewing team, including the actual RV sessions that led to the solution of this case, will be available soon.

Ed Dames may speak about it this coming Sundays show on Coast to Coast with speaking on the Natalee Holloway case.

Welcome back everyone!  :D

Hi Monkeys. We're back up again.  Look at what I stumbled across while perusing my local newspaper this evening. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0831cr-arrest31-ON.html
Sound familiar? Unfortunately, gang raping a young girl is all too common party behavior, it seems, even in the suburbs of Phoenix.  The difference is that these guys are cooling their heels in jail and the video tape was found as evidence.  The poor girl only remembered bits and pieces of the assault.  The article says she was drunk, but I would bet any amount of money something was slipped into her drink.  People need to know that this behavior happens more frequently than we realize, and the perpetrators need to be prosecuted for it.  It is criminal and should be treated as such.

I'm glad I could help get that fixed! lol lol

Hi dkpen and Easy.  How are you tonight?

Very interresting.  According to this article her bones were found by a hunter.  Wonder what the in-the-field footage and shocking results will be?

Bones found in forest are those of missing womanhttp://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=4621035&nav=2aKD

GREENFIELD, N.Y. A human skeleton found in a Saratoga County forest has been identified as that of a missing 19-year-old woman.

Christina White of Milton was last seen by her family on the night of June 30 of last year.

The bones were found Friday by a hunter in the Daketown State Forest in Greenfield, 30 miles north of Albany.

The Saratoga County Sheriff's Office has not said whether foul play is suspected.

Thanks Easy.  For a moment I thought I was going to have to get out that old wheel in the corner and have to start running in circles to get us up and running again.

hehehe I guess Easy is inadvertently admitting he is the one that tripped over the cord and plugged it back in. Oopsie!!!  LOL

No, I was able to offer my vast expertise in technology on the front page, then the forum came back up!  :lol:  :wink:

Berms that might be guarded.

Arial view of the Desalinization Plant & the Valero Refinery, and a closer view
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/ArialviewofDesalinizationPlantValer.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/ArialcloseupofPlantRefinery.jpg)

Then I guess that explains why you've got all those groupies.   8)  :P

Good Day Monkeys :)

What up?   Remote Viewing mentioned?
The SiFi had a short segment on that last night / this morning.

Strange to say the least.

Sunfreak - Nice screen captures of the satellite views

I'm not sure Klaasend. Perhaps there were number of people who actually were employee'd in the search once the RV team marked the area she was in.

This article does not say "how" the hunter found Christina White's bones. Did he just by chance stumbled in her location and found them? I am sure Ed Dames will enlighten us soon on the answers. At least I hope so.

Thanks for the link to that article.

God bless~

What I'm wondering is if she was found in the exact area they had determined she would be found?

Could be, after much careful consideration I determined that it was broke!  Once that determination was made it was simple that the next step would be to fix it!  Amazin’ ain’t it? lol

Thanks Sunfreak for those pictures.

I am sure a recovery will be difficult. Espcially if it is in a well guarded area and Aruba will not allow it to be searched. If they don't it will be very telling. If not for Natalee there is something else they are hiding they don't wish for others to learn about. Say, maybe illegal activities in that area. LOL

A veritable showpiece of logic I'd call it!  :lol:

I'm sure my background in engineering played a roll in my well conceived plan.   :P

I think I've located the vd Sloot house on Google Earth.


(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/ArialGoogleofpossiblevdShouse-large.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/ArialMaptoJorans-routedrawn.jpg)

Well we are glad we have you Easy. LOL I tried telling them on the front page but do not think anyone listened.

I thought maybe I was limited to a certain amount of post a day and I had reached my limit. I could have handled that but darn I could not even read.

Thanks Klaas we know you were instrumental in the fixing. LOL

Yep, we were feeling a little lost, even if we only read at times.

Oops, I forgot to add to my last post.  

Re-reading it says Ed Dames and his team recovered evidence in the cold case. Does not say they found the girl. So in reading it I am assuming it is saying that Ed Dames played a roll in recovering evidence that helped lead to solutions in the case.

I was getting a little scared there - I was truly a scared monkey!!

I deny having been in a strip-club that night doing the Hoochie Coochie.  I peeping squirrel was sleeping nude in the display window at Macy's department store that night..  I don't care how many pictures BTgirl says she has of me..This situation is very unpleasant for me, because people keep talking about it and Macy's has guards posted so I can't sleep there anymore..

Thanks!  I love that Google Earth program.  It's like I'm ona magic carpet ride.  :lol:

lol  We do have our addictions, don't we.....

SunFreak2 did you see me waving at you when you flew over?

No worries, Terry - I'm sure the possums and raccoons will make room for you to sleep here. :wink: (We'll talk about the price of those pictures later.)

(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/9bfd4d6f.gif)(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/lolololol.gif)

BTGirl may I asked what you were doing there taking pictures?  I think you might have some explaining to do...

I need to pack for THIS LABOR DAY WEEKEND but I wanted to checkin with everyone and say hi!..

My apologies, Terry. I mistook you for a naked sock monkey. :P

I can guarantee you I know absolutely nothing about getting a stack of one dollar bills before going to a strip club, nor do I know anything about buying a cheap bottle of champagne for a 100 bucks!   :shock:

Just one of many!  :wink:

ROFL   :lol:

I did, Terry!  Unfortunately I saw Scoop on her broom too.   :shock:

From the last cage http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=288&start=940


With the "Dutch Team" in charge... maybe there is no problem is asking to search a certain area now??  I can at least hope this is the case now.

JMO

Terry you are too funny.

Sunfreak enjoyed seeing those shots you did. Now if you could find Lorenzos house for real.

DKPen thanks for telling us all about remote viewing.

BT girl and any of our other Monkeys I have missed hello for the night.

I hopefully will have some pictures to post this weekend, I'm supposed to help some friends in Tampa and this guy has a room setup like an old 1950's soda fountain in a barn..  I will take some pictures of his stuff, I heard its kinda interesting..  I'm going with two other guys that collect this stuff and just thought I might want to go to see what this other guy has collected.. These are serious collectors and I hate clutter so this should be interesting..

So that was you, ya cheap-skank!  :wink:

Where ya headed Terry?

Hey Sam,

Did you ever hear of Greta Alexander from DELAVAN?

Just wondering

Here you go Klaasend.  :)

You are reading up on the wrong Christina White, unfortunately, there are two of them.

http://p076.ezboard.com/fmissing87975frm133.showMessage?topicID=40.topic

The Christina White case that Ed and Team worked on is not completed yet. It is based out of Asotin,
Washington (not Oregon). If you read the page, just below halfway down is where the Teams
involvement starts.

Hi Sam. Good to see you.  :D

I have to leave my friends house at 3AM in the morning so we can do this trip in one day..  I'm just going for the ride and maybe stop and get some fresh oysters at this place that sells them real cheap in Tampa.. Most likely he won't want to stop so that might not happen.. He is picking up a vintage coke vending machine and a couple of juke boxes..

Thanks DK - wonder what the odds are on there being 2 Christina Whites?

Sorry Oldfart, Never heard of her. I have never even heard of Delavan.

 I do not like this weather turning so cool yet. Hope it is not permanent for awhile yet.

I met some lady today that had hands that were the biggest hands I ever seen on anyone..  I kept thinking of the Jerry Signfield show because she really did have big hands.. She is a postal carrier but I think she works inside.. I actually went to HS with her sister but don't remember if her sister had big hands..  Maybe when she isn't looking the next time I see her I will take a picture so you can see for yourself.. It wasn't me that mentioned it but others at the table mentioned it after she left..

Well Klaas, there are quite a few Me's. LOL Here you can check on your name as well.

http://www.zabasearch.com/

East of ya... & a little south of Peoria  ... Agree with the weather.. Got part of cold started already   :yuck:

She was the wife of my director 30yr ago..  changed my out look on Psychic abilities..

Gotta run...
Have fun gang...

SeeeYaaaByeee

LOL - I know, I meant missing and presumed murdered.

Is that where you are going to drop the CRAP SEEKING BOMB ?I read those statements from Sandor and for some reason, it just all clicked with the theory that Dave had in his book. I just don't understand
how one whole place from the top to the veritable bottom of the food chain in Aruba lets these liars get away with this. Is that Isle not a country ? Or is it an Island that is run by a pack of wild boys ?
Sorry, I am in a rant mood !

When I put in the name Christina White they said there were to many to list and asked me to narrow my search by state or birthday. LOL

Does anyone have the address or the town where the van Rijn house is?
(Not the wild color painted one - the nice mansion one)

Oh shoot Sunfreak I do not remember. It seems like it starts with an S.
I thought sure Klaas would have answered you by now. Another one we should check on is the Van Cromvoirt home, mansion.

Celebrity Duets is kind of a strange show.

Savaneta - North of Baby Beach and the Refinery

twilight zone feeling I have ~ don't watch reality shows so maybe this is the norm.  :shock:

Sunfreak  - maybe this will help.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/ArubaCities.jpg)

I am off for awhile. I have some things needed to do here. Will check back in later on tonight.

God bless~

Isn't Savaneta where the blue painted house is?  I though the big white or pink one was located just outside of Arikok.  Someone once posted the address of the house in a for sale ad.  Also the van Cromviert house.

Saveneta is where the big Lorenzo house is.  I believe it's also where his mom's house is.

I don't remember the area of the van Cromviort home

Do we know where Paulus works? I think we are gonna have a statement coming up where Paulus drops Joran off at a bus stop near Lorenzo's because he is late for work.

We know where Paulus works now, for Joran's attorney's office.  Not sure if he was actually working at the time Natalee disappeared.  I think it was right after he flunked his judgeship exams.

The nine-year study published in The American Journal of Medicine involving nearly 2,000 people, led by Professor Qi Dai of Tennessee's Vanderbilt University, showed that the risk of developing Alzheimer's -- a degenerative brain disease that affects a person's memory, thinking and mood -- was cut by 76 percent among those who drank fruit or vegetable juice more than three times a week.

I'm not too sure about that.. I drink a lot of fruit juices and I can't remember a lot of stuff.. Now what did I want to say????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060831/hl_afp/ushealthalzheimers_060831174226

Are there more statements ?
Any hints ?

I was just watching Larry King Live about another freak show in Colorado City... no wonder they sort of all look alike in that place.. they are mostly descended from two families and they are all breeding out of the same gene pool.

Yes, in the process of being translated :wink:

Remember early comments...maybe Sleuth about the southern lighthouse.  Joran did say at no time did Natalee say she wanted to go north...maybe it's the other lighthouse??

The car was seen heading north. And then there is the mention of Arashi Beach. And the Gotenbos house and BOAT is up that way. ( North ) but, anything is possible in that place where it seems everyone has a different story.
Another thing is where was the Gottenbos' boat that night ? Sun, Mon.
Was it at a marina ( Marriott Marina ) or was it at their house ?
Did Joran want to go boating ? With who ? Sander is 15, Koen 18.
Exactly where was the Mr. Gottenbos and the Mumma?
If it was at the house, there is no dock near the house, someone would have to drive the boat to the water.
If the boat was at the marina, then either one of the Gottenbos' could have taken it without having to have access to a vehicle.

I know, everything seems North, but the next day, the school, lorenzos and the early am call are south...maybe final disposal??

Astrid lives at 123K Savaneta

His Huge house is at 172 Savaneta

Depends ( to me at the moment ) where the boat was. We saw a picture of it at the Gottebos house, but they didn't keep it there all the time did they ? Were the Koen and Sander allowed to just take the boat out ?
Or would they just take the boat out if it was at the marina ?
.  
Klassend says more statements.

The released statements and documents have only strengthened my belief that this was a simple crime, a date rape gone wrong, and that Natalee and Joran were dropped off on the beach.  I have a fairly clear picture of what happened leading up to that.  Joran went to CnCs looking for Ruth, I don't think he or 2K had any plans to rape anyone when they arrived.  I don't think Natalee was drugged, spiking a drink as strong as 151 with GHB is overkill and the combination would have rendered her completely unconscious by the time they arrived at the beach, which I don't think she was.  Maybe before Joran arrived someone slipped her some X because they liked watching her dance, but X isn't consistent with her faling asleep in the car.  However I do not think Natalee understood what effect a shot of 151 would have on someone her size.  I think she got in the car because she was intoxicated, somewhat naive about boys, and wanted her last night on the island to be romantic, altho I don't believe she intended to go any further than making out.  Also, some of her actions that nite (persistantly flirting with Joran at CnCs after ignoring him at the casino, yelling out the window to her classmates) make me wonder if there was something else going on, like trying to make someone jealous, or some other sort of teenage gameplaying.  Once they were in the car somehow they ended up going for a drive to the lighthouse. Natalee never asked to see Joran's house and they never went there.  After making the quick loop by the lighthouse they headed back towards her hotel, and Joran told Deepak to let them out near the Marriott.   Natalee was fine with this, she liked the idea of a romantic walk on the beach back to her hotel and some kissing under the stars.  Meanwhile Joran was mistakenly assuming, based Natalee's flirting with him in CnCs and leaving with him, that she wanted to have sex with him and would agree to a quickie on the beach, after which he could just walk or take a taxi home.

2K drove off, Joran and Natalee walked to the beach.  At this point my picture of what happened becomes more murky, altho basically it involves Natalee refusing Joran sex and Joran getting angry at having been, in his mind, led on.  I do not think she died of an OD, doesn't fit the timeline.  They were dropped off around 1:50, I think she was dead by 2:26 when Joran called Deepak, and according to Baden even after OD victims pass out it usually takes at least another hour or two for them to die.  Then there's the fact that according to Deepak it was Joran's idea to say she fell down getting out at the hotel.  Joran is sufficiently larger and stronger than Natalee that he could easily have overpowered and and raped her without seriously injuring her.  So this was most likely a rage killing, she slapped him and he struck her or something like that.  The very first version Joran told anyone was what he told Deepak at 2:26- that he and Natalee had gone into the ocean and when they came out she passed out.  So I suspect that either before or after Natalee died, he was with her in the water for some reason.

At 2:26 Joran left the beach on foot without his shoes, arriving home at about 3:15.  After that the picture becomes very murky, there are a number of different plausable scenarios as to how Natalee was disappeared and when.  If Joran alone disappeared her, he might have done so before walking home from the beach, maybe by carrying her to a dumpster or somehow getting her out into the current without a boat.  If her body was still on the beach when he got home then his 3:30-4:30 net surfing is little odd.   However Val was using the computer at 3:07, so maybe if Val was still awake when Joran got home, he killed time using the computer while he waited for Val to go to sleep. Then he grabbed his duplicate keys and a sheet to wrap her in, hopped in the SUV and headed back to the beach. with a 1 hour 40 minute window until sunrise.  Or he told Paulus some version or what happened and Paulus disappeared her.

There are some things in the statements that make me more suspicous of 2K, such as the car cleaning, and Satish missing school the next day.  However the text messages Joran and Deepak exchanged that nite. and the polis van tape, prove that Natalee did not die while all 3 were present.  And Joran has to be guilty of something too or he would not have lied as much as he has.  So if 2K are involved in her disappearance, that points to a scenario where Joran raped Natalee, left her passed out on the beach, and then 2K came back and killed her without his knowledge.  One problem with that scenario tho is that effects of alcohol and drugs usually peak within 40-60 minutes, and she had her last drink before 1:00.  So if she were going to pass out it would probably have happened before they got to the beach.  Altho could be that all 3 suspects are lying about her condition when they got there.
 
Also could be that Satish did pick Joran up, and Joran and satish used Deepak's car to disappear Natalee.  This could fit with the gardener's story, if the gardener is mistaken about how many people were in the car and which Kalpoe he saw.  However I don't think Satish picked Joran up, and Satish would need a motive to help Joran hide a body and keep silent about it.

and then 2K came back and killed her without his knowledge. One problem with that scenario tho is that effects of alcohol and
That doesn't seem plausible to me... What would be their motive ?
Also think Joran is the more crazy of all of them.
There was the part in the statement of Joran where he says he knew she wanted to have " fleshly intercourse" with him by the way she looked at him in C & C's.   ??? He is pretty used to just getting his way and not used to people saying NO.

Shizaru, I tend to agree with your version of events.  Is it possible that they dropped Satish off before going to the lighthouse with Natalee?  Then Joran and Deepak could have both raped her and one of them hit her hard enough to accidentally kill her?  Satish really seems to be out of it to me.

If Joran and Deepak even accidentally killed her, or she fell and hit her head, etc., they either could have taken her body somewhere to be hidden and disposed of the next day, or called Paulus.  It just seems to me that guys in that situation would try to do something themselves rather than call a parent to help.

I firmly believe that Natalee was drugged, abducted and sexually assaulted. She was alive at 3 am, Birmingham time (2 am Aruban time?). Joran, Deepak and a third male were seen at the Raquet Club at 2:30 am.

We were at the beach about ten days ago and some young guys has a Sea Pro, they were right up at the shore picking some other kids up to go tubing. To bring a boat in right up to the shore is not a big deal.

I don't think any of them planned to do anything more than drug and rape a tourist on her last night on the island.  None of them would have intentionally caused her death.  It could be the result of rage and hitting her too hard or some kind of accident, but due to rape and any marks on her they had to  make sure the police never found her.

Goodnight, y'all...sweet dreams.

I agree. The rage part and Joran seem to go together.
If the boat was at the marina and not at the Gottenbos house Sunday or Monday night ( most likely Monday ) I think it would have been easy to dump her at sea. And not too time consuming.
There seems to be a window from the time Joran, Guido lef the casino at 2 am to the next time anyone saw them on the Monday night.

I know that Shizaru has spent more time than I have putting together a time line, but maybe more statements might shed more light.
There are alot of details that are in there for no particular reason, and yet some crucial pieces seem to be missing in the communication records between them.
Satish seems to be the suckiest of the three, maybe he was sick the next day becasue of what he knew ?
If Koen knew nothing, why did his Dad have to go in and speak for him ?

It doesn't make sense for Joran to call several friends to arrange to accompany him to C&C's and for them to arrive a half hour before closing just to dance and have a drink.  If Joran wanted to see Ruth, he would have gone to C&C's with the group of girls from the casino.  He followed them into the sports bar, talked with them there, and then left to make arrangements with the other pimps.  Why leave the girls then if he just wanted to see Ruth?  It's well known that local guys arrive at a bar 1/2 hour before closing for one reason--to pick up a girl for sex.  They have no reason to believe these girls are going to have sex with them willingly.  After all, Joran even said he had done it twenty times before.  Sorry, I don't buy your scenario at this point.


I do believe Natalee was drugged based upon the "going in and out of consciousness" statement made by Joran.  No, a shot of 151 is not going to produce this effect.  More likely, a shot of 151 will make her woozy and sloppy drunk, but not going in and out of consciousness.  Natalee's behavior, her heavy lidded eyes and not talking are all consistent with someone who has just been given a shot of GHB within the last 10 or so minutes.  A shot of 151 on someone of Natalee's size and fitness would not have the effect of losing consciousness.


We do not know that she got into the car willingly.  If she were given GHB in the prior 10-20 minutes, she would have been a walking zombie, easily led to any waiting car.  How do we know she flirted with Joran persistently at C&C's?  I have not read verification of this.  Are you misinterpreting a friendly wave and a drink as "persistently flirting"?  Regardless, this is an interpretation, not a fact, and we can't guess at motivation.  I do believe they went to Joran's apartment.  Jossy has stated that the police know she was at Joran's apartment.  Beth has stated she felt Natalee was there.  There are too many indications to dismiss this out of hand.



We agree here on only one point--that Joran was violent with Natalee.  I feel that is indisputable.  The rest of your theory is murky, as you admit.  It just doesn't add up to what is known.

Well put, AZ. You've listed many of the reasons for my beliefs.

The time of the phone call(s) from Natalee to the other students phones including the "Are you calling home" voicemail is critical in this timeline.

It was not a Aruba fast phones rental phone.

Time lines don't match up to me.

Gardener claims he saw Deepak and Joran in the front seat and a third unidentified male that quickly laid down in the back seat at around 2:30am?  And supposedly there was a call around 3:00am from Natalee for help.  And let's not forget that the fishermen on the beach said they saw no one on the beach that night and if so they would have seen them.

Thanks HotShot!  I'm still confused about who lives in which house.  Wasn't the big white (or pink) house with the fencing around it Astrid's house?  And the blue, wildly painted one supposedly his?

GREAT rebuttal AZ, to Shizaru's theory.  I believe she was targeted, slipped drugs, raped and died accidentally.  I think she was taken to the lighthouse, but not sure she was taken to the huts.  I also believe she was alive at 3AM to make the phone calls.  Maybe Joran left her passed out in his room while he went into the main house to surf the net & IM/email Deepak.  That is when she came to and was able to make the calls.   I had thought for awhile that J2K might have been using laptops and were not apart for the interactions, but then I saw the pic of them carrying out Deepak's PC tower. And Joran was recorded as using the family PC and not the laptop.

I want to know how Sander managed to have his cellphone stolen at school on May 30th!

I agree DK.  

1:15 leave CnC's & drive around, maybe drop off one of the Kalpoes at home

around 1:45 - 2:00 arrive at lighthouse, where Natalee is assaulted.  Perhaps she tries to run away, and strikes her on the rocks. They get her back in the car and leave immediately in case they were seen.

2:30 ish Deepak's car with Joran at the wheel is seen.  Could they have been sitting there trying to figure out what to do?  Car is facing away from the beach & toward the RC.  They then take Natalee to Joran's apt.

3:00 - Natalee makes the calls while Joran is in the main house on the Internet.  He thinks she is passed out.  He catches her, becomes enraged & strikes her.  The combination of the new assault & earlier head trauma causes bleeding in the brain (from the brain being banged around inside the skull).  Her brain stem herniates causing death from respiratory failure.  Joran had caught her on the phone when he went back to his room to get something - maybe his homework to print out.  He leaves her after striking her and goes back to the computer not realizing she is fatally injured.  When he eventually returns to his room he realizes she is dead.  He puts her in one of the family cars and takes her somewhere to get her out of the house. Perhaps Joran is the one who makes the ATM withdrawals around 4 AM b/c he needs money to pay for help with disposing of her.  The next day after school, he hears that her family is en route to Aruba, so he has to dispose of her better.  Maybe that is when he gets Guido involved.  He was supposed to be playing tennis with Guido that day.  He's afraid to disappoint his dad, so he tries to take care of it by himself.  He's taken by surprise at 3'ish by the arrival of BHT at his house, that he makes up the preposterous HI drop off story and gets Deepak to back him.  Eventually Joran has to come clean to his parents about what happened so they can help him coverup.  

That's my theory.

Yikes, it's late.

G'nite y'all!

Night Klaasend, Sunfreak...

And I think I will head out of the cage myself.

Good night and sleep well monkies.

God bless~

On the date that Natalee disappeared, Aruba was an hour behind Birmingham time. One call that she made was 3 am in Birmingham but 2 am in Aruba.

2 am: Nat gets in a call to Twitty phone

2:30 am: Joran, Deepak and third male are seen at the raquet club, in Deepak's car.

<rant_on>
This world is becomming full of a bunch of thin skinned, offended by EVERYthing, snot nosed, spoiled rotten, over politically correct, helmet wearing, no sense, dont know how to drive, ugly sunglass wearing, lazy, no good, whiney, cant do anything for theirself, sue happy, no responsiblity having, wussy, uncoordinated, had everything handed to them, over sensitive, needs a good ass kicking, punk-ass kids and adults.  I for one am sick and tired of it
</rant_off>

this post has absolutley nothing to do with this case and is not aimed at anyone on this message board.















And pull your dam pants up or put a freaking belt on.



whew, glad its Friday.

Astrids House
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/kath8700/astridshouse.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/kath8700/astridhouseww.jpg)

Lorenzos House
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/kath8700/Jaraweg.jpg)

Paintball house (No relation to Lorenzo)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/kath8700/LorenzoRaveRanch.jpg)

I recieved an email yesterday from my Dad, one who knows nothing about the Holloway case, so this is why I found this interesting.  We all thought the Shango thing came from a comic book right?  Well I am going to post this email that went around and you'll see why I question the comic book theory now.  

1. The Garden of Eden was in Iraq.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq!

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the Fiery furnace!)

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.

16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.

17. The wise men were from Iraq

18. Peter preached in Iraq.
19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon, which was a city in Iraq!

And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia . The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name Iraq, means country with deep roots.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated it than Iraq.

And also, This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11 ) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

OK, maybe I am looking into this too far, and I dont really know the Bible that well, so I could be wrong.  Maybe someone can help who does know scriptures.

Ah, Blah, how right you are!

I try very hard to be dipolmatic and sensitive to others without compromising my own standards, and am fairly "teflonized" when others direct any crap my way. Yet I seem, on occasion, to offend the hades out of some folks. Perhaps my self-image is not reality based?  :?

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Blah - I love this, especially the part about the pants and the belt.  :lol:

Every time I have to look at one of those kid's underwear, I want to slap him upside the head and tell him to get some respect for himself and the people around him who are having to look at his butt! Why does some skinny teen-age boy think I want to see his drawers? Good grief!!!!!!

Amen to that !  That is why I for one am so glad that they have a dress code which is strictly enforced in our whole parish(county to everyone else).....
The rest of it too blah!!!!

Good morning monkeyfaces!

Guess I should have stated in the schools.... but as soon as they are out, look out!!!! Not a pretty sight is it ?

No, it isn't.  We do it all the time.  'Cept during hurricanes.

We are all fine here. Some power outages - not us though - and school cancelled county-wide due to so mild flooding.

Good morning.

Time to break out the CHLORINE for that gene pool.

Good morning everyone!

Blah... I couldn't agree more with you... and you left out girls who never eat and weigh all of 87 pounds that gripe that they are "fat" at 5 ft. 5 inches tall... :lol:

On a serious note,  Please take a look at the unsolved crime thread,
America's Most Wanted is doing a show on the what could be serial killer that has struck AL and GA.....

have a great day monkeys - Keep the faith!!

Good Morning Monkeys!

How's everyone?  Anyone hear from the Monkeys in the storms yet?

I couldn't get back into the cage yesterday afternoon...   :oops: so I went back to bed and slept for 12 hours...  And finally feel alert enough to tackle that Natalee Bumper Sticker page...  I wish I knew what I was doing...  instead of just having to guess at coding and hope that the page looks and works right...  and just keep on guessing until it works right...

And man...  when I went to work yesterday morning to update my direct deposit info, I saw something on TV about a guy snapping...  and didn't really know what it was about...

This morning I see...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2381841&page=1

What Would You Do? Parents' Worst Nightmare
Parents of Molested Children Talk to ABC News

By CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit

Sept. 1, 2006 — It's one of the most unbearably thorny questions a parent ever faces — what would you do if it happened to your child?

On Wednesday, Connecticut attorney Jonathon Edington, 29, was charged with first degree murder for allegedly stabbing his neighbor to death after his wife told him that the man had molested their 2-year-old daughter, according to Edington's bond attorney, Mickey Sherman.

Edington was released on a $1 million bond — a rare move in a capital murder case, experts said.


More at link

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/jacqueline111/dogwithflag.gif)

Wishing Everyone a Happy Labor Day Week end!

You too Jaqi!!

Thanks, Sistah...

You too, and Katz, Peaches, Snoop, and EVERYONE I MISSED....

Please be sure to check out the Unsolved Crimes thread...


AMW is doing a show on the serial rapist  - with the little girls from AL and GA....

Good Morning Monkeys!!

Whodunit - glad to hear you all are ok - It looks like we have missed alot of the rain here - still a chance throughout the day, I think the track is east of where I am.

Hey to all the rest of you.  TGIF!!!!!!!!!!

 :lol: Good morning, you guys!  When my nephew was 18 he was into dressing like that...  hey, when my sister and I were growing up, we wanted to be "in style" too...  My sister drew the line at piercing and tatoos though...  NO earrings, NO piercings, NO tatoos...    everything else is temporary she said...  And she's right.  He even had purple tinged hair, he tried red too...  I told him I like purple better ~ it reminds me of P...

Anyways, on his 18th birthday, he was leaning into the 'fridge, looking for something to eat or drink, his pants hanging down under his arse, sulk boxer shorts sticking out for all the world to see...

So I picked him up by his boxer shorts ~ and gave him a wedgie...  we laughed!!!  He didn't know what to say, or what to do...  Poor kid ~ I went right into his "cool..."  He wound up hugging me tight and giving me a kiss, telling me that he should be mad at me, but he's not...  

He'll be 21 this Christmas Eve...  he did real well in school, and now has a job as a chef in a good restaurant in one of the better hotels on the Strip...  They like him a lot there, he's proud of the work he does, and does the best job that he can, and is more than willing to learn more...

And he no longer wears his pants so low that they're near hanging down to his ankles...  And his silk boxer shorts are where they're supposed to be ~ INSIDE his pants.

Good morning, Jacq!  What a great dog ~ and I love that flag!  And a great Labor Day to you too...

My sister just sent me an email about putting out a flag on September 11th too...

Hey, tha's a great idea!

Great story bout your nephew...

When I was in junior high all the rage was Huckapoo shirts, painters pants and work boots....  (oh and puka shells.....can't forget those)

My mom used to say why do you want to wear those pants made out of cheesecloth!  LOL

Good morning, Kimmy!  {{{hugs}}}  And yeah, I'm happy that 'Who' is OK too...  and any other Monkeys who were in harms way...  Waiting on hearing from the others...  Glad you're not inline of the storm...

TGIF to ya ~ and to everyone else too....   tonight will be "my" Monday though...  seems like no matter what I do ~ I'm on a different track from everyone else...

Katz, I have been through all the fads myself, but the looking at the butt cracks definitely is the one that bugs the hell out of me! JMO

I grew up wearing painters pants too...  they were the best!  and my jeans were all patched up and decorated with embroidery...  I still have my favorite pair...  and I wore construction shoes or flip flops...  and hippie shirts from India...

 :lol: Thankfully, the only thing we got to see were my nephew's silk boxer shorts!!!!  Butt cracks are just not pretty!!!!

And good morning to you too, BT ~ and hey, Blah!  Good seeing you too!

There should be the death penalty for guys like this ~ there's just no fixing 'em...  And while they still breath and roam the streets, the rest of the world suffers...

I dunno Katz....did ya ever get a look at Phils?

Who be that, Jacq?  ....   :oops: and yeah...  I can think of a couple off hand that I sure wouldn't mind seeing either...   :oops: but that's a whole 'nother story...  and not gonna be here on the board!   :lol:

Why Mr. Phil Mc Cracken....

and a close 2nd is Seymour Butts..... :

I'm sorry I know they are terrible jokes.... :oops:

But they still make me laugh..... 8)

Those still make me laugh too Jacq..... :lol:

[quote="
I'm sorry I know they are terrible jokes.... :oops:

But they still make me laugh..... 8)[/quote]


Those still make me laugh too Jacq..... :lol:[/quote]

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

The time difference is the other way around.  Alabama is an hour behind Aruba. It is Eastern time in Aruba, same as Georgia.  Alabama is an hour behind Georgia. When it is 3AM in Georgia & Aruba, it is 2AM in Alabama.

So if Natalee makes a call from Aruba at 3AM it is 2AM in AL.  If the phone call in AL was received at 3AM (AL time), then Natalee made the call at 4AM Aruba time.

Thanks Jacquie :D  Same to you.

Since you're saying the weather is not going to be good -- I'm expecting a bunch of movie trivia clues from you :lol:  :lol:

 :oops: oh....   :D  :lol: Okies, time for me to feed the cats and then sit down and get "crackin" (pun intended) at trying to upload the new and better bumper stickers that I made...

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/August/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Oh yes....I'll be thinkin up a storm.... :lol:

Unfortunately I have to work today....
Catch up with you monkeys later....

 :oops: Okies ~ I know I haven't been keeping up all that well...  but...

The last I remember on the phone calls issue ~ and Tyler helped me out with this one ~ was...  Natalee got off a phone call to one of the guys on the trip...  but he didn't listen to the message until on the plane home, or something like that...  there was a "help me" type phone call during a storm that was made to Nat's family ~ but that phone call had nothing to do with this case....  wait...  let me dig through files on my computer ~ I saved the postings from that day...

Have there been updates on information about phone calls that Natalee made that I am not aware of?

oh...  :oops: and good morning SunFreak and justinsmama!  And anyone else who is awake and posting or reading now!

This is the only phone call that I know about...  Is there another one know about now?

• The call was MADE to William Morris' own personal phone, NOT a rented phone.  He retrieved the voicemail when he boarded the plane to return to AL

Hi!  Just reduced my house and guess I will run another ad in the classifies.  Klaasend your right never offer your services because I'm now getting calls and everyone has special needs and all I wanted was to play tennis..  I now have 24 new members and they all have titles which I was just hoping to find weekend players..  Example: Chris Kennedy,
PTR-Certified Professional USTA Member, what does that mean?   I think I will tell them that maybe they didn't understand my invite and this was for starting a nude tennis team?   :D  :D  :D   I was going to start the bike club but now this has gotten way too big for what I wanted..  I'm scared of answering my phone..  They want to know what circuit I'm on and I guess I should tell them the peeping squirrel circuit at Scared Monkeys that should impress them..  I'm afraid to do the bike club, I might get riders like Lance Armstrong and there again I just want to have fun not kill myself..  Just be careful everyone about offering your services, it seems there are a lot of people that will take you up on that..

Have a great weekend, I need to goto Blockbuster and rent a dvd on tennis.. :D  :D  :D  :D

See ya later, Klaas...  And, since it seems that I'm posting by myself again ~ see ya all later too.

Hi Terry and bye Terry...  btw...  Your cat is great!

On your question if I was at the “Raquet Club” on Monday May 30, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not go on that day to aforementioned club. I have selection training on Mondays. I am present in football selection.

On your question if a telephone number, I will explain to you the following:
I have no mobile telephone, it was stolen on Monday, May 30, 2005. The number is xxxxxxx.

On your question if I have filed a report on this, I will explain to you the following:
I did not file a report.

On your question why I didn’t file a report, I will explain to you the following:
I have not yet been to SETAR to buy. New I must buy if I want to preserve my old number. [/b]

From Sanders 6/16 statement....what kind of answer is that??  Makes no sense...it's supposedly stolen and he's talking about preserving the #...

Me too ...  and the longer this goes on and the more statements we read, the more convinced I am that Joran is a parent's nightmare.

Good morning, NJ Mom!  {{{hugs}}}  How are ya?    Okies ~ maybe I'm thinking this one through wrong, I don't have a cell phone...drives my sister crazy....  but, it seems to me that Sander is concerned about keeping the phone number that he already has for that "missing" cell phone...  (I'm not ready to call it "stolen" at this point, ya know...)  And he's concerned about buying a new phone, in order to be able to keep the same phone number instead of having a new phone number issued to him when he gets a new phone...

I can understand wanting to keep the same phone number...  I wouldn't want to start all over with a new phone number either...

Am I making any sense ~ or am I just being stupid again...

The thing that gets me about Sander's statement is that he made a statement...  while his older brother, Koen didn't...  and Koen is the one who is rumored to have been so freaked out after Natalee's disappearance that he slept in his parents bed...

In my opinion between 2 and 2:30 all hell breaks lose because of the phonecall and therein lies the reason for the explosive temper tantrum which more than likely then ends her life...."something bad happens"...  My original thought so very long ago at the very beginning of this and it still sticks with me.

I saw some discussion about time zone differences and wanted to clarify something.

Aruba is not in the Eastern time zone.
Aruba standard time is GM-4.
Aruba does not observe daylight savings time.

Alabama is not on Eastern time; it is Central time.
Central Standard Time is GM-6.
Central Daylight Time is GM-5.

Eastern Standard Time is GM-5.
Eastern Daylight Time is GM-4.

When Eastern Daylight Time is in effect, Eastern is the same as local Aruba time.

When Eastern Standard Time is in effect, Eastern time is one hour behind Aruba time.

At the time Natalee went missing, "daylight savings time" was in effect in the U.S. Because of that, Aruba time was the same as Eastern time, and Alabama was one hour earlier.

2:00 a.m. in Aruba =

2:00 am Eastern Daylight Time
1:00 am Eastern Standard Time

1:00 am Central Daylight Time (Alabama)
Midnight Central Standard Time (Alabama)

Hi Ono...  haven't seen you in a long time!  I'm working around the house and lurking...  

And I agree to a point...  oh yeah, Joran's a nightmare, all right...  but I'm not ready to give his parents all that much credit and feel bad for them in any way for the monster they helped make...

And I still blame Paulus so much....  I think that man knows exactly what happened ~ and refused to give Beth and Dave a tiny morsel of peace by telling them too...

Just my opinion...  my 2¢

it is becomming more and more clear that this phone was not stolen.

Good morning, Ms.Marple!  Thanks for the time zone stuff...  But, I'm still confused about these phone calls...

The only one that I know of is the one that Natalee made to one of the guys on the school trip's cell phone ~ and she left a message that he didn't hear until he was on his way home...

Is there now another phone call that Natalee supposedly made that night that has come to light?

I have mostly been lurking lately, and haven't had alot of time to read the latest statements translated.

I read the "maid's" statement.  What kind of questioning is that?  How long have you worked for them?  What are your hours?  My gosh, I think a 3rd grader could do a better job of asking questions than that.  Big Idiots.- Unless there are parts of the statement missing, that interview is a waste of time.  I swear.

Something odd to me, Why the questions about a spanish speaking aid?  That is a really strange question.

I get so mad reading this stuff.  I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from ALE.

Yeah ~ I'm not ready to call it "stolen" yet, either, Blah...  I'm more inclined to think that the phone might "be gone" with Natalee...

Don't know if Sander was there that night ~ maybe Koen had Sander's phone with him or something...  Maybe Koen was there, I don't know...

I sure hope the investigators are figuring this all out...  I mean the new ones from Holland...  And I hope the ones working for Beth and Dave have a good idea what happened that night too...

Hi Katz! Glad you eye procedure went well..

Oh, don't get me wrong...I am not excusing Paulus or Anita, as it seems they certainly have some very peculiar parenting habits ~ In fact, no parenting habits seem to be their style...  I'm thinking that more than likely he was an enigma behavior-wise from the get-go ....It's possible they never wanted to admit that there was something wrong with him...consequently, his/their problems have grown larger and more serious over the years...they cannot hide it now.

Thank you very much, Ono!  I appreciate it....

 :x  I really didn't think that you were excusing them...  I just saw your post about Joran being every parent's nightmare ~ and I just had to chime in with my 2¢ on his parents too...

They're still trying their dangest to hide it, Ono!!!  That's what fries me! But their house of cards is falling...

so now we have:

Joran threw a crackhead off a bridge

Joran threw a guy through a glass window

Joran killed his family dog and tried to balme someone else

Joran beat up his little brother and was seeing a shrink because of it

Joran said if Natalee was to return he would hate her and he would punch her in the face right in front of her mother.

Joran told Deepak and Satish in the back seat of a police car that he should have killed them

Joran told Deepak in the back of a police cat that he should punch him in the face.

I agree, as was discussed here before, the cell conveniently was 'stolen' on 5/30/05 when Sander was at football selection or before or later...mmmm....our cell phone numbers carried over from the original contract with our provider when we got new.  If he's saying this 2 weeks following the loss, it has no bearing filing a theft report, imo.

Katz, I read your response (felt it too much of a challenge to quote you and blah in one post) :wink: .  I also was trying to see it as perhaps a kid's logic, but then, reading the statement from 6/16, he also says that he saw Joran several times since 5/30/05 and Natalee's disappearance was not always discussed....I don't buy that.....

hmmm i wonder if Deepak is missing anything

Joran - shoes
Sanders - phone
Deepak - ??
Satish - well, seems there may be a gun missing
Paulus - ??

I wonder if they all stuck a personal belonging with the body to assure no one would talk - cuz then they would all go down.

You are correct.  
This can get confusing at times so here’s a table that can be used to determine what time it is in Aruba compared to the time in Birmingham, AL.  Remember, Aruba is in the eastern time zone and Birmingham is in the central time zone.

Aruba             midnight   1:00 am      2:00am  3:00 am  4:00am  5:00am
Birmingham    11:00pm  midnight     1:00am  2:00am  3:00am  4:00am

Quite a notorious list of accomplishments.

This kid is not done yet....

and shame on those who could have done something to prevent him from harming someone else.

KatzHome - I'm not a good resource on the phone calls. From the beginning, I had each snippet of phone call info in my notes. However, one thing I was never clear about was "which time" was referenced.

Top of my head, these possible calls -

A call to a kid in MB who did not make the trip and retrieved a message.

A call to a kid from MB on the trip who had his own cell phone there (he listened to a message on the bus going home, or at home)

A call to the Twitty home that Jug apparently slept through; probably a message was left there.

Meanwhile, again, top of my head, the CONTENT of the msg(s) -

Odd sounds - some speculation that it might have been the VDS neighbor's monkey screeching.

"Are you calling home?"

"I don't know these people"


And I still am not clear about whether any of these were from Natalee, and what TIME ...

The fact that he was calling several different friends is exactly why I think this was an impulsive crime of opportunity, not something that was planned.  He was calling his friends because he needed a ride.  2K were not his first choice that nite.  And after calling them he tried to get Florencia to come along too.  I don't buy that Joran, Jaime, Freddy, Deepak, Satish, Florencia, ect were all part of some big well-organized rape gang that was so highly efficient members could substitute for one another and carry out a complicated operation involving multiple individuals on a few hours notice.  And if this was a plan to single out one girl and drug/abduct/rape her, why were 2K with Joran in the bar?  It would have been easier to get a girl to leave with one guy than with two, and she wouldn't mistake Deepak for a taxi driver if she recognized him as someone who'd walked in with and been drinking with Joran.  So why not have Deepak remain outside, and Satish meet them somewhere else later.  Of course Joran's reason for showing up just before closing was to pick up a girl for sex.  But I think the trio just had a vague plan to find some girls whose inhibitions had been lowered by alcohol, have Joran get them even drunker by buying them some shots of 151, then offer them a ride back to their hotel and see what happened. This "20 times before" quote is being misused.  He didn't say he'd raped tourist girls 20 times before or even that he'd had sex with tourist girls 20 times before, just that they'd picked up tourist girls 20 times before.  For all we know 18 or 19 of those other times nothing happened except they partied with them for a while then took them back to their hotel.   What made this time different from the other 20 times is that this time it was just one girl that got in the car with them.  If the trio had left the bar with both Natalee and some other MB girl, I think both girls would probably have made it back to the HI safely.


 

I don't believe Joran ever used the words "in and out of consciousness".  According to 2K, Natalee fell asleep once in the car, on the way back from the lighthouse, but then was able to wake up and walk off with Joran just a few minutes later.  Falling asleep for a few minutes, at 2:00 in the morning, is not inconsistent with someone who is intoxicated.  Heavy lidded eyes are also consistent with someone who is intoxicated.  I think it is very likely that after hours of drinking at the hotel, followed by two hours in CnCs, Natalee's BAC was already at least a little over the legal limit even before she drank the 151, which would have raised her BAC by .08-.10.  So I think she probably left the bar with a BAC of .20 at least.  That is highly intoxicated, particularly for someone who is not an experienced drinker.  




I think she probably got in the car willingly because I don't think she was drugged, I don't think she would mistake a car parked behind CnCs for a taxi, and allegedly she refused to get out of the car when the guy asked her to.  I also think it is probably true that she asked Joran more than once to dance with her, and that he did a body shot off her.  Even if Joran and Satish are lying about the body shot, which wouldn't surprise me, or if it happened but was actually Joran's idea, it still seems she was making an effort to get him to notice her, which seems a little odd considering that she wasn't even looking at him on the casino tape.  Hence my speculation that she was trying to make someone jealous, or impress her friends, or some such teenage behavior.  

I don't dismiss out of hand the idea that they went to his apt.  After giving it careful consideration I've reached the conclusion that they didn't, primarily as a result of the text message evidence.  I have yet to see anyone who believes the crime scene was the apt offer a plausable explanation as to why, if that is the case, Joran was telling Deepak that he had arrived home, when Deepak would already know that if he had taken Joran to his home.  It is a basic principle of logic and detective work that the simplest explanation is the one most likely to be true.  The simplest explanation for Joran telling Deepak that he had arrived home is not that on Monday morning Joran and Deepak were cool collected criminal masterminds, speaking in code in anticipation that their text messages might be read by police, but then 24 hours later they suddenly became idiots and offered an alibi that was contradicted by the text messages.  Rather, the simplest explanation is that they weren't thinking about their messasges being read either time,  and that in fact, Deepak had left Joran and Natalee somewhere other than his home.  Don't forget that the reason Joran abandoned his claim that Deepak drove him home is that polis confronted him with his message telling Deepak he was home.  The computer and phone record evidence is hugely important, it is very useful in narrowing the possibilities, so it is very frustrating that I seem to be the only non-Joran supporter who doesn't just completely ignore that evidence or handwave it away with farfetched, overcomplicated explanations designed to make the evidence fit their theory rather than the other way around.

I don't buy it either, NJ Mom...

I wonder what the new investigators from Holland are going to do with these statements...

You're making perfect sense KatzHome. No one wants to start over with a new cell number.

But this is the problem I have.

If he hasn't 'reported it' -- then his phone is still live and whoever 'stole' it could still be using it. And answering it. Getting calls meant for Sander. Running up quite a bill depending on the phone plan Sander has.

That's what I'd be worried about.

And it bothers me that Sander isn't :twisted:

Hi all -- bye all :lol: Just passing thorugh on my way to my next errand :D

Some really interesting stuff in this latest Sander statement.  

Finally, we now know what the "choller" incident was that Joran mentioned on the polis car tape.

And now we have Sander corroborating C. Croes, that Joran did originally claim that Natalee was the girl whose money he won back, not Ruth.

So Sanders said he had known Deepak and Satish for a year and a 1/2
But Joran in his statements said he  had only known them like 3 or 4 months..
Yet Joran and Sanders are good friends..
How could Sanders be good friends with joran, But He known Deepak and Satish for a year and a 1/2 but Joran only knew them few months???
There all for all intense purposes glued to the hips

That's a thought, Blah...  about all of them putting something of theirs with Natalee...  hopefully, maybe in a fish cage that will be found...

 :? Just a fast comment on what Paulus is missing, IMHO...

The moral fortitude to admit what happened to Dave, when he told him that he would do anything to protect his son...

Okies ~ I have to go out...  see ya'll later.

he's done it 20 times before

Hi Sharon, and bye Sharon ~ I'm headed out the door running errands too...

And I know exactly what you're saying about reporting the phone stolen...  unless it was his brother who "stole" his phone for the night...

So Sander is stating that he knows the Kalpoes:

I know them I think approximately a year and a half.

Joran and I are better friends than Joran and Deepak and Satish.

Joran states he only knows them about 3-4 months.  If Joran is that good friends with Sander he definitely knows the Kalpoes longer.

Sanders does not appear to be the sharpest tool in the shed.  Or he doesn't quite understand his phone contract.   :roll:

Sander's statement sounds a little like the email Woner Women posted that was supposed to have been sent by Deepak.

IIRC Joran later said that the girl who lost the money was Katherine...right?  I thought he went to CnC's to meet Katerine. Not Ruth or Natalee.  Did I miss something?

Ruth and "Katherine" are the same person.  Joran told Greta that "Katherine" was the girl whose money he helped win back.  According to Madison's 302, that girl was Ruth.  And in his 6/9 statement Joran identifies the girl whose money he helped win back as the one on the far right in the beach photo, Ruth.

I found this from Greta's interview, but can you direct me to the 6/9 statement by Joran about identifying the girl from a photo?

VAN DER SLOOT: And I didn't even notice Natalee from that beginning, from that (INAUDIBLE). I didn't even pay any attention to her. There was a friend of hers that was sitting next to me that said she'd lost — she'd lost $100 or $120 of her father's money, and she wanted to win it back. And I said, You know what? I'll help you. I'll help you try and win back your money. I'll tell you when to hit and when to stay. And that's what I did.
<snip>
VAN SUSTEREN: Interested in any of them at — at the poker table?
VAN DER SLOOT: Interested? No, not really. I was more talking — the girl that was sitting next to me, I was — I thought she was pretty and I was talking to her. And when I went — what the point was for going to Carlos 'n Charlie's was I wanted to actually meet up with her.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember her name?
VAN DER SLOOT: I don't — I didn't remember it, but I remember it now because I heard it
VAN SUSTEREN: So about what time — did you leave the blackjack table first, or did the young women, the girls from Mountain Brook, leave the table first?
VAN DER SLOOT: When she'd won back — Kathleen, who was sitting next to me, when she'd won about $100, me and her friends convinced her to go cash the money. So that's when they went to go cash — they went to go cash their chips.

My head is spinning around a bit here.  Are you saying that the girl in the beach photo far right is Ruth McVay, or are you saying it's really Katherine, who's surname escapes me at the moment?   It is not Ruth McVay, imo...so I'm hoping I am just not understanding your post.  Thanks.

I lost part of the statement Joran made when posting above.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember her name?
VAN DER SLOOT: I don't — I didn't remember it, but I remember it now because I heard it afterwards. I think her name was Kathleen.

Also, I think this is Madison's name....not positive...someone may be able to confirm:

Katherine Madison Whatley

Shiz:  I just wanted to say that I agree alot with your theory about what happened with Nat.   I think that it was not as elaborately planned out as some believe.  I think that this was just one of the activities these guys do... Troll for girls, pick them up and .....well whatever.

I somehow feel that they drug them though, and I think at times, it is a"gang" situation.  Whether in participation or just voyerism.(sp?)

I totally agree with you that they are not criminal masterminds and I think their first reaction or comments have alot of truth to be brought out in them....Does that make sense?  I guess what I am trying to say is I don't think these guys are all that smart, and I think that they just had help in a cover-up along with alot of dumb luck.

This is what Joran said in his 6/9 statement:

"A girl that was sitting at my left side on the table asked me in English if I could help her play blackjack because she had lost U.S. $ 360,= of her father's money. The girl bet U.S. $ 20,= in the game and I helped her win U.S. $ 100,= with it."

"I don't know that name of the girl but I remember her from a photo in the newspaper on which Natalee was printed on the left side of her friends and the other girl was on the right side of the friends. This girl is the same girl  that sat at my left side at the blackjack table."

Ruth is the girl sitting on Joran's left side on the casino video. And she is on the right side of the beach photo, the very far right opposite Natalee IIRC.  So Ruth is the girl Joran is talking about here, which matches what Madison told the FBI, that Ruth is the girl whose money he helped win back.

It's confusing because for some reason Joran was calling Ruth "Kathleen" in his Greta interview, and Madison's first name is Katherine.  But Madison was not the girl he gambled with according to both Madison and his 6/9 description.  The girl he gambled with was Ruth, and he originally lied and told Croes and Sander that girl was Natalee.

Blah wrote:  Joran said if Natalee was to return he would hate her and he would punch her in the face right in front of her mother.

I think he said he would kick her butt according to Anita.

Yeah - there's alot of anger there.  IMO Joran is one that doesn't want to be told no or bothered.  He gets his kicks being a "badass"  Tough talker.

I think Natalee may have said or done something to bring out his anger and he snapped.  Whatever it was, it couldn't be explained away - thus the need to hide the body and make it disapear.

OK, Shizaru....I did think of the casino photo afterward....I'll leave it as is...because it is confusing....thanks, though.

Thanks for clearing that up.  You're right, it's very confusing.

I don't know how much they planned or did not plan this.  It does seem that the aftermath was coordinated by the big people.  And according to Nadira ...even big people lie!

Hi Blah, Just sticking my head in for a minute and this caught my eye...Since I haven't been able to peruse the forum much for a week or so, can you tell me where I can read more about this stuff (in red) and if it is confirmed?

TIA!! And hi MONKEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mishy, check out Sander's 6/16/05 statement in the Important Document's thread.  He talks about the druggie and glass altercations there.

You're right Leslie he did say he would kick her butt.

He also said the following:

"If I were to see her … if she were to be found tomorrow, I think I'd hate her," he said. "If she really ran away from home, if she did something like that, I'd hate her."

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1656142&page=1

From Sander's Statement 6/17/05:

On your question if I it is possible that I go deeper into the differences, I will explain to you the following:
I will give you an example. An example, if there is a scuffle going on, then Joran will want it. I always walk away.

He portrays Joran as not being violent and then he says the above.  How does all this trouble always seem to follow Joran.

"then Joran will want it" - My opinion Joran wants the violence.

I think I scared everyone away with my new gun :lol:

Nope, I'm here but quietly lurking  :wink:

Thanks! I've checked that out...there's so many statements I haven't had a chance to read them all...

Love you monkeys!!

Oh No San - I've been just lurking.....  I just don;t know anything to add.

Fri afternoons are usually slow too.

Especially on a 3 day weekend :lol:

Hi  mishy, this is in the latest transcripts on the front page (not exact word for word quote, more of a derived translation)

And I think they've had a lot of coaching on what to say by now too, Kimmy...

Hi Monkeys ~ I'm home ~ but only here for a post or two ~ I've got to head in for a nap before work tonight soon...

I like it, San, I like it...  actually ~ I don't really like it ~ but accept the reality that one very likely fits into the end scenario...  It's a way of acknowledging that we are aware of that...

Shizaru wrote:

I think she got in the car because she was intoxicated, somewhat naive about boys, and wanted her last night on the island to be romantic, altho I don't believe she intended to go any further than making out. Also, some of her actions that nite (persistantly flirting with Joran at CnCs after ignoring him at the casino, yelling out the window to her classmates) make me wonder if there was something else going on, like trying to make someone jealous, or some other sort of teenage gameplaying. Once they were in the car somehow they ended up going for a drive to the lighthouse. Natalee never asked to see Joran's house and they never went there. After making the quick loop by the lighthouse they headed back towards her hotel, and Joran told Deepak to let them out near the Marriott. Natalee was fine with this, she liked the idea of a romantic walk on the beach back to her hotel and some kissing under the stars. Meanwhile Joran was mistakenly assuming, based Natalee's flirting with him in CnCs and leaving with him, that she wanted to have sex with him and would agree to a quickie on the beach, after which he could just walk or take a taxi home.
 

This theory doesn't make alot of sense to me. The crime wasn't spontaneous, it has clear elements of premeditation. J2K arrived at C&C just thirty minutes before closing, the girl was bought three drinks in that time and left with two people she never met before and one person she barely knew. She passed out several times in a period of only fifteen minutes, yet was not out cold (as is usually the case with alcohol alone). Your theory makes the two Kalpoes nothing more than drivers and if that was the case they would have broken in interrogation and implicated Joran. As "drivers" the Kalpoes would have no reason to lie and insist Joran and the girl went to and into into the Sloot home while Joran denies it. My hunch is that one of the Kalpoes did drive Joran home and went back to the beach and found the girl unconsious. This trip to "look for Joran's shoes" in the middle of the night is discussed in several statements.

Hey, blah!  Didn't realize you were visiting my school yesterday ~ I would have introduced myself.  :wink:  :shock:  :D

Okay, now I am terribly confused. I looked up the times for May 30, 2005.

KLAAS! HELP!

Sorry, the time difference confuse me too.  Can't help, lol  :lol:

Hiya Monkeys

hope this helps on the time differences:

http://tinyurl.com/rdmfe

Yea, a very Joranesque evasion by Sander. The answer itself is correct, "buying a new phone to preserve your old number", but not to the question asked. Two weeks and counting for Sander and he still has not taken any action to replace the phone. A cell for a 15yr old pimp is a necessity, so it appears HIDING the knowledge of a missing phone was more important than HAVING a phone.

OK I am going to be way off topic here. For one thing when I first started following this case it was at Rheil World View. I followed it there for quite awhile until Dan sort of went a little ? Crazy sounding. I then discovered Scared Monkeys.

Anyway last night I thought I would try to go back and reread some of his very early stuff. Of course there was much to much to read at 1 reading so I did the make available offline thingy and spent most of today reading offline. Was almost finished when I lost power temporarily. Lost the page so can not give you a link but will give it later. I did have 1 page I copied. Should have copied lots more. Here following is the page I copied.

Riehl World View
An Open Letter To Aruba
I have been nothing but objective, supportive and understanding as regards the tiny island of Aruba as it wrestles with a tremendous problem. As is likely the case with many reasonable Americans and citizens of the world, watching what has been happening on the island of Aruba has called for tremendous patience, understanding and maybe even a certain kindness.

As for the particulars of any investigation, I leave judgment to those far more experienced in such things. As a business person, I understand the need to balance the books with ones public image. But I have also been watching for a week or two now as a very, very troubling development has begun to appear on the island.

Questions have been coming from the island during that period of time, about Natalee Holloway. Fair enough, though I would point out to my Caribbean friends that as things stand, you honestly do have far more questions of a serious nature to answer than to ask just now.

Recently, at least one media outlet has been consistently inquiring as to Natalee's friends. Who are/were her boyfriends? How many were her boyfriends? And today it is my understanding that this media outlet not only asked these questions, but also believes it somehow has a right to demand answers from Natalee Holloway's family. And you broadcast this on the air?

America is kind, Aruba, but she is not naive. There can be only one extremely self serving rationale behind such questions being asked in the public media at this time, especially as all ethical and reliable media can easily validate the honorable truth. Natalee was a high school student and a vibrant, good hearted young woman of more than average or reasonable moral character. Period.

Now, you have your answers, just as many of us already have the pertinent facts, which frankly are far too worthy to be hurled into the middle of this confounding mix.

Might she be capable of a mistake? A misjudgment? I suppose. But then who isn't? And really, who cares? But these troubling questions I and now apparently many others have begun to hear, questions which can only hope to serve one rather pathetic and singular purpose, as they serve no valuable role in this tragedy - they will not give anyone meaningful answers, Aruba. They will only serve to focus the attention of America, and perhaps even a larger portion of the world upon your seeming inability to answer the very many valid questions sitting as yet unanswered and squarely upon your island's beaches today.

My friends in Aruba, America might forgive a certain incompetence, or, God forbid maybe even some corruption as regards this still on going investigation. And Aruba likely would endure the damage to its reputation should it come to be that America and some others in the world conclude that your system of policing needs some attention and possibly refinement, if not outright improvement.

Of course, all this is assuming you wish to continue to be a playground of sorts for the world, and most particularly for that piece of it that is American.

But, be careful, Aruba. In terms of legal issues and public perception, if there is anything America detests more than seeing the guilty go free, it is seeing the innocent dragged down into the mud, in this case the mud of a rock and sand island we really could manage to do fine without, should a significant portion of our population so choose.

I'd suggest you think very carefully as to whether or not you want to make a similar admittedly bold statement as regards America, or more factually her tourist dollars, before you begin asking too many unnecessary questions while America is looking upon you to provide some straightforward and increasingly overdue answers.


Update: For those posting the ridiculous reaction that "all questions are relevant in this case." It would be best if you thought some prior to posting. 1) A caveat of the Dutch system is that investigative information cannot be made public, therefore 2) Any public media attempt to smear the reputation of an apparent victim cannot in any manner be defended as "part" of an invetsigation, and 3) Even if it were so, then why, as stated by P v d Sloot last night, did authorities not even "interrogate" him during his brief detention, but only take a statement?

If you would advocate "interrogating" a young victims reputation publically in a manner that can only be defined as a smear campaign, yet, not complain at the failure of the Aruban police to interrogate a, in their own words, potentenial suspect privately while he is in detention - you either lack wisdom, judgment, or a reasonably clear view of the dynamics of this case.

Lastly, nowhere have I ever advocated that Aruban authorities do "less" in a situation where many are coming to the conclusion that they have been doing far too little far too late thus far. If you cannot distinguish between misguided public relations and an investigation, hopefully you never take up the law, or serious argument around it.

Thursday, June 30, 2005 at 02:50 AM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink | Comments (635) | TrackBack (1)

I am bolding 1 part of the same letter by Dan below.

Update: For those posting the ridiculous reaction that "all questions are relevant in this case." It would be best if you thought some prior to posting. 1) A caveat of the Dutch system is that investigative information cannot be made public, therefore 2) Any public media attempt to smear the reputation of an apparent victim cannot in any manner be defended as "part" of an invetsigation, and 3) Even if it were so, then why, as stated by P v d Sloot last night, did authorities not even "interrogate" him during his brief detention, but only take a statement?

If you would advocate "interrogating" a young victims reputation publically in a manner that can only be defined as a smear campaign, yet, not complain at the failure of the Aruban police to interrogate a, in their own words, potentenial suspect privately while he is in detention - you either lack wisdom, judgment, or a reasonably clear view of the dynamics of this case.

SAM, interesting article. I am assuming Dan wrote that? (before he went off his meds).

Aruba appears not to have taken his advice.

http://www.nos.nl/nos/artikelen/2006/09/art000001C6CDCE956DB650.html

Het KLPD gaat het onderzoek leiden naar de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse scholiere Natalee Holloway. Aruba had daar om gevraagd. Natalee Holloway wordt al meer dan een jaar vermist.

Rough translation:

THE KLPD will lead the investigation to the disappearance of the American scholiere Natalee Holloway. Aruba had requested it. Natalee Holloway has been missing already more than a year.

I never posted at RWV, but I did read there frequently in the early days.  He even had Joran posting there that first week, whining that he was just a 17-year-old kid pretending to be 19.  Interesting stuff.

What happened to Dan?  He went nutz!

Did Joran tell Freddy and Sander the same story? Or is Sander lying and sticking with the C.Croes/Bubali story?

Easy I did post there in the early days. I absolutley loved his insight as well as some of his early posters , such as Anna. I think Isigs may have nailed it, he went off his meds. LOL

I never posted there myself, but I did read there in the early days. In fact RWV is where i first heard of SM. It seems to me that Dan really spiralled out of control after his appearance on Fox. Can't seem to remember, was that on O'Reilly or Geraldo?

How high is the Wilhelmina Park Bridge? :lol:

Deepak email alibi LIE - most likely drafted by Paulus and given to all of Joran's friends and the Kalpoes for memorization.

That’s a shame.  Sometimes genius teeters along a fine line and can easily falter.

Oh yeah...

Can you consider the C.Croes, Bubali(assumed), and E-mail story the same? I wanna know when Freedy spills the beans.

I agree Klaas.  They all needed something that they could memorize.  This way no one slips up.  I also believe Paulus had help with the email (other legal minds).

This is a VERY good point.

And WHY is ALE asking Sander all these questions about cellphones in the first place? He was younger, and was from all accounts, at home and totally out of the loop on the night in question.

What significance does Sander's CELLPHONE NUMBER bear to the case? Hmmm...

I must be loosing it because I don't know what you mean by the C.Croes, Bubali (assumed) email story?

Grande image portfolio >

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/chicagoutfit/?actionfiltered=view&current=GabrielLeoappraisal.jpg&slideshow=true&interval=2

Some screenshots of the early web activity on SM is in here as well.

To me, the mere fact of them asking Sander any questions IN THE FIRST PLACE is suspicious.

And note that the questions are totally out of the frame we would expect... they don't ask him a THING about where his older brother was that night, for example, or anything about his knowledge of the boat having been used at that time.

They ask him about his cellphone.  That should send up a red flag.

Looks like it's gonna be a quiet night in our Cage. I'll check back later.

Sanders stated he was taking his fathers boat out the night of May 29th and asked Joran if he wanted to join the outing. Joran said he couldnt make it because he was going to C&C. I suspect J2K met up with Sander and the boat at Arashi Beach or at the boat launch area just south of there.

Yer not losing it! Igsigs is not being clear.

You have the C.Croes story. The next day all 3 give a statement at Bubali(i am assuming this matches the C.Croes story). Then you have the Deepak e-mail. 3 stories. I am wondering if they can be considered the same version.

This interest is sparked by Sander's statements on 6/16 and 6/17 where he is admitting knowledge of only the original story. Whereas Freddy admits to being told the beach story. Is Sander still lying? Were Freddy and Sander told different stories?

Not night, it was 11am not pm.  Remember it's all military time.

Maybe I misread it, I thought Sander was saying Joran couldnt make an evening cruise because he was busy at a poker tournement (not C&C). I know it was an 11 am call. The important thing to me is that Sander used the boat on May 29th during the day or the evening. Sander said:

*I had telephone contact with Joran on May 29, 2005, this was around 11.00.

*The conversation went that I asked him if he wanted to go out on my fathers boat.

* He said that he could not go because he was going to play poker at the Holiday Inn. There is tournament each Sunday in aforementioned hotel and Joran participates almost each week in that tournament.

Spock - you could be right.  I assumed it was a day boat ride but it could have been night.  I'm not sure when the "free" poker tournaments start.

What is of interest to me is that Julia Renfro has been trying to tell everyone that the boat was broken.  Apparently, it was NOT.  So, Julia lied yet again.

Good points Klaas

In my opinion, Joran is an uncontrolled, bratty, pain - in - the rear childhood menace all grown up.....I bet you could see the signs of his anti-social behavior by the age of four...now he's a clear danger to society.

It is curious to me, if J had never been on that boat, and usually played in a tournament that day on a weekly basis, then why did he even ask J to go on the boat?

OOps, hello you all, I have been lurking all day and forgot, I bet ya couldn't see me. Waving hello to all :)

Thanks Klaas. Ramm did a full trans of this article and it is encouraging. Agreement has been finalized, full independent authority for KLPD, access to all documents, all necessary specialists, no stone unturned, etc...etc...

Less encouraging is that the team will start within "weeks" and will last "weeks, not months". I hope the team is sizable, they should at least add a Monkey or two.

Here is something that has been bothering me all day. In the backseat/police car transcript, we have J saying something about S hitting girl with car, or in car? And S mentions a gun. J says S picked him up, at one point. Yet S is the one who seems to say no comment during questioning, S is the one who was supposedly sound asleep early like a good lil boy, and S is who D says, leave my lil brother out of this. It all makes me wonder about Satish.

At the end of the day, regardless of the case, if there aren't some policemen gone as in fired... we'll know. I am speaking primarily of Dennis Jacobs, but here are more.
Were these documents leaked by someone in the ALE in Aruba ?If they were leaked by the family or anyone who is in North America, well, we would not be waiitng for translations ?
It's a thought that I like, someone so po'd in Aruba that they have
photocopied stuff and made it available.  8)

quote from Kat G>>("It's a thought that I like, someone so po'd in Aruba that they have
photocopied stuff and made it available. ")

I like that thought too!

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/JuliaWitch2.gif)

Just reading a Glenda post. She is worthless excuse for a human being, IMO.

Julia Renfro/Glenda wrote:

(snipped)

American Girls have a reputation for being easy in Aruba (for the record, that doesn't include MB Girls drinking responsibly) -- as soon as they say hi, the burden is on them to prove the reputation a miss, those who hop in cars with guys they just met, add to the reputation, those who don't are forgotten, just like the girls that do... Because tomorrow night is another night and life goes on.

(snipped)

(http://bestsmileys.com/waving/2.gif)

All the comments about "leaving my little brother out of this" also have me wondering. Was he left out of the earlier party? Did he pick up Joran at the beach, drive him home, and then return to Nat?

Satish, so visible at first, is surely a curious part of this puzzle, mostly because of his now silent absence. If you think about it, the three quiet ones are Satish, Freddy, and Koen...

I'm waving back and smiling ! !
I had a rough day at work, ppl away on holidays, or just away and I had to stay and do the Ministers Shout Box thingie. Oh... I need some cookies ! !  Just jump how high all day !  ! :lol:

Can I use my gun now?

She is a disease.

That Julia ! !  Another one that needs the dog poo seeking bomb.

Man, that makes me mad!  I wonder how many cars ran over her while she was just trying to jump in for a little fun?

A JRD will be written in the medical journals! lol

 :lol:  :lol:

Ren Froe is a vicious person.

Regarding Satish - who was at Joran's "just got out of jail" party in September 2005???  

SATISH

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/JoranCelebrate2.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/FreddySatish.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/JoranCelebrate.jpg)

I see Satish as a "useful idiot".......Do we know if Deepak was there too?

In my opinion they don't want to show Deepak and Joran together.  They need to make it look like they hate each other when in fact those two need each other.

No indication Deepak was their unless he was the one taking the pictures.  I see Deepak as a 3rd wheel.  He was being used.  Satish on the other hand was friends with Koen for a while prior to being friends with Joran.

Deepak isn't in these pictures because he is in the bathroom having a pee.
 :o

 :lol:

Why doesn't Satish have a pimp nickname?

Deepak has one - "tupac"

Koen, Sander, Freddy, Jaime & Joran all have nicks, too.

Supposedly Koen & Sander were friends with Satish first, then Deepak.
2G knew 2K for 1 1/2 years.  2G knew Joran since Sander was a baby.  But J only knew 2K for a few months. Yet J & 2K party together at least once a week, go to the movies together, gamble together.  Satish seems more loyal to Joran that Deepak does.

So why doesn't Satish have a pimp nickname?

Oh I so I guess that those "innocent" aruban girls in the pictures are as pure as the driven snow??

I don't see Glenda the bad bitch saying that the girls in those pictures are dressed skimply....

or better yet - is it because when an aruban girl gets raped they just take her off the island?

whatever   :roll:

Before or after the burping episode? (sorry.. I coudn't resist)

Mercy me, look at how young those girls are in those pics :shock:

Maps, reference materials, pictures, public documents, etc. regarding Natalee Holloway.  I will add more later...

220 Images
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/chicagoutfit/?actionfiltered=view&current=GabrielLeoappraisal.jpg&slideshow=true&interval=2

Another thought, if S went to sleep that night, then why the heck didn't he get his bum up for school the next day? Also, what exactly did S do the next day? Stay in bed and sleep?

Did he ever graduate? He has no job we know of. It is probably to give a nickname to a guy with no personality.

oops, it is probably *difficult to give a nickname to a guy with no personality.

Thanks Grande!

No they just add her to their budget (hush money).

Right??

You can't rape the willing.  These girls in Aruba seem to have no morals.  They think nothing of having relations with multiple partners.  To them it's normal.  Sorry, but that's how they portray themselves.

Hey Klaasend...

you're right, but I don't want to fall into Julia's trap of judging what these girls are like on a day-to-day basis... but I do agree 100% that they protray themselves as having no morals and willing to do anything....

I mean look at how the MB kid's photo albums were invaded and there weren't any pictures of girls with dogs or anything even remotely like that....

I'm glad you said it because I was thinking the same.  I would call them a word that Julia is very familiar with.

Well she was miss id a ho....  :lol:  (thanks Tyler... )

 :lol:  :lol:

O/T ... but have y'all read the unsolved crime thread about the serial rapist?  AMW will be doing a story on that tomorrow night....

it's kind of weird, all the girls missing have red hair, they were all 11... all of them took place 2 years apart...

All this time, I thought that Birmingham was an hour ahead of Aruba on the date that Natalee disappeared.

The call Nat made that morning was 3 am Birmingham time. If it Aruba was an hour ahead, then she was alive at 4 am Aruba time.

Grande; You have  a personal photo in there. Go to page 12. See it, takeit away

Good thought....

The friendship connection could have been primary, but I think something else was added to the equation by the time Natalee was kidnapped.  I think Deepak was being used as well...and it's possible he and Satish were being paid. Money seems to turn them on more than girls.

That's true, don't forget Deepak's main concern when he talked to Skeeters was how much money he would make on his book...

And one can certainly say that chivalry has been long dead on Aruba. The guys there leave a lot to be desired and are slobbering all over themselves to be first in line to take total advantage of any and every girl that comes their way...

It's pathetic..6th grade orgies.

Not to mention that Jossy has stated that for $20 they could buy a "spiked" drink.... I mean it seems like anything goes... as long as one is MALE.....

We could call him Blanco...

Yes...

Good Night San....

Have a good night!

I am following San...

Night Monkeys....

 Keep the faith....

No tourist had a clue the place was so dangerous...just the opposite...Aruba was always sold & pitched as being so SAFE.  The airport authority should give each traveler their own pistols to use while on the island...should be rent-free and dispersed at the gate upon exiting the plane.

Nitey night..Happy Holiday Weekend ~ 8)

Anyone want to do the Shango Tango? More posting from Dan but I seem to remember he credits SM with some of this. This time I included the comments from there.



Riehl World View

Thursday, June 30, 2005
The Mystery Post
I realize that many people have been discussing some mysterious postings alleged to have some connection to Aruba and recent events. To be frank, I haven't read much of the material, nor do I anticipate doing so.

However, a reader has apparently done a great deal of research and writing on the topic. As some seem to be discussing it in great detail, I am posting the bulk of her materials sent to me in email. She has requested that I do not identify her and I am honoring that request.

Frankly, if someone were talking to me in some mysterious code purported to be revealing "secrets" to me - I'd sooner grab them by the neck and make them give it up, than ponder endlessly over what appears to me as incomprehensible, at best.

However, I do respect other viewpoints ... so, here goes.

Have followed with particular interest the riddles analyzed on SM and RWV. Some alternate interpretations may be useful, based on Internet research.

So much in the riddle messages points to raves and club drugs. Reference to "maze" is interesting: "Maze" is a drug invented by a character named Rave in a certain Marvel comic book, it seems. ((Will send a separate e-mail w. extracts and link.) Douf may mean pigeon in Dutch but it also could refer to a certain type of rave party that I read about on an Australian Web site. Very loud music DOOF DOOF DOOF.

The Australian site is an ABC radio interview w. ravers. Talks about aspects of rave culture and experience that seem relevant to NH case. For instance, talks about waiting around in a bar to hear where the party is, then heading out to it. This sounds to me very much like what NH, JVDS, and the two "shivas" were doing at C&Cs.

Australians also talk about danger of the drugs and overdose of young girl. (Will supply link and extracts via separate e-mail.) Other thoughts: the Arawak king need not be someone high in government. Could refer to drug kingpin--even Medellin or Cali cartel type. Could refer to the local head of the underground rave scene. Could refer to the DJ controlling the party by controlling the speed of the beats. Could refer to the yacht "King Arawak" which cruises in the Caribbean Sea but is based in Trieste.

If I were the Aruban authorities or the Holloways, I'd be very interested in knowing where that yacht is now and has been recently. I'd also like to know who is on it. Again, will supply links, extracts, via separate e-mail. Another thought based on Australian radio interview: raves are noisy. A noise complaint often ends the party.

If I were investigating, I'd check the police records for noise complaints that evening. I offer these bits of research and opinions for what they are worth. Please use them as you see fit. do not identify me in any way or post my name or e-mail address on the blog, unless you wish to add me to the list of those who wish the family well.

P.S. The "folly" line is interesting. To me, it means: "Go for the head of the beast. It is foolish to waste your time on the flanks, or sides, of the beast (jvds et al.) and their cover story." My personal opinion is that the vds cover-up is quite separate from the central crime, except the vds are scared to rat on someone and don't think they have to--e.g. "no body, no crime." I do think they know more than they are saying, but I don't think jvds killed NH.

If she died a drug-related death, as I believe, then whoever supplied the drugs or organized the party may be the person jvds doesn't want to implicate. I wish I had thoughts on Dirty Hand, but I don't, except that a DJ is very crucial to a rave. I'm surprised they let Croes go.

This is apparently from the Dutch newspaper Telegraaf

More willing to talk are some of Escobars men whom we contacted in Medellin. One of them knows a lot about the contacts between the Medellin cartel and Dutch drugs criminals.

This Ricardo tells us how members of the Medellin cartel have pretty much unchecked passage to Holland. "In Aruba we got great contacts with high level people." "An immigration guy who is able to provide us with legit Dutch passports, so we can travel the world free without any worries." The man tells us in wich bar in Oranjestad (Aruba) he meets the corrupt Aruban official and how much a passport costs: $50.000.

"Several of my friends traveled to Europe with an Aruban passport, such a passport is the ultimate cover for Colombians that have to go to Europe for business." Nobody tells us any names, if they do the Colombian cartel will surely kill them.

Our guy keeps his mouth closed when we ask what the Arubans officials name is. However Roberto Escobar does tell us that Vladimoro Montesinos - who recently has been arrested in Venezuela and delivered to Peru - has had close ties to the Medellin cartel when he was chief of the Peruan secret service. According to Escobar Montesinos took money from the cartel to finance the campagne to get Alberto Fujimori into the presidents seat of Peru.

"We gave Montesinos at his request 1 million dollars to finance the presidential campagne of Fujimori and I got proof." Montesinos would supposedly have met Pablo Escobar on a secret trip to Pablo's huge estate, Hacienda Los Napoles about 120 kilometres east of Medellin. Los Napoles was Pablo's most spectaculair villa, with 6 swimming pools and a zoo with hundreds of exotic animals.

There were enough bedrooms for 100 guests and Pablo even had lakes placed on his estate so he could water ski. Whenever he had guests he would show them his masterpiece: an American oldtimer from the 30ies, filled with bullet holes. According to Pablo it was the car once owned by Bonny and Clyde.

Russians and Cali cartel in Aruba

Maze was a psychotropic drug invented by Rave. . Detective Nick worked on the case for a long time and knew everything about it and the inventor.

He knew that most of the chemicals used for the drug were not illegal on their own, but when they were mixed they became a dangerous drug. The son of Detective Nick became insane through an overdose of Maze. --Marvel Comics Presents #141/4

House of Rave The House of Rave was the HQ of Rave. It was the place where the drug Maze was produced and distributed all over the city. It was also a lively disco with a huge dance floor and scaffolds. Cameras and sensors oversaw the whole place and traps normally finished off intruders.

Traps like the stairs that could be turned into a chute. There was also a room with holographic pictures that should distract intruders from the holes everywhere in the room from which spikes came out. Holographic pictures were also used in other rooms. The place was also a big bomb for the case that everything against an intruder failed. The explosive power of the House of Rave could've levelled a whole block. --Marvel Comics Presents #141/4

Selected extracts below:

The dancefloor can be anywhere, a million dollar nightclub, a stadium, a warehouse, a car park, even a forest. The soundtrack will be strictly electronic, the atmosphere frenetic and affectionate.

Last year we had the Fantasy scare, or the GHB scare, on the Gold Coast, where ten people were hospitalised after using the drug. The year prior to that we had a poison ecstasy scare where it was one of the first times where PMA, paramethamphetamine, was identified as being sold as Ecstasy, which is a particularly toxic form of the drug.

We also had, very close to the weekend, the death of teenage school girl, Anna Wood, who died after taking an Ecstasy tablet. So, it tends to be the time of year where mini-disasters sort of like hit, and all of a sudden the whole of the media crashes down on dance parties, clubs and illicit drug taking as the source of all evil.

****************

Tell me about the music - what is it about the music? Same party-goer: Gets into your heart, you can feel it in your heart. Everywhere all around, because everybody is so happy, everyone gets along the same wavelength.

Because we're all here for the same reason, doof, doof, dance, dance, dance your heart out. Trance, psychedelic trance, hard core, yeah. Hard core, which is really doofy, you can dance to really well; and trance you can just lay down and trip out to.

Chris Bullock: Are you tripping?

Same party-goer: No, E-ing.

Chris Bullock: There'd be many people on E here?

Same party-goer: Yeah. I'd say so. I think it's a good thing, maybe other people don't. But I do.

Chris Bullock: What do you mean it's a good thing?

Same party-goer: Yeah, well it makes everybody happy, and they like it. It makes people like other people heaps, more than people would normally.

Chris Bullock: Are you having a good time?

Second party-goer: Yeah, having a wonderful time.

Chris Bullock: Why?

Second party-goer: Because I'm tripping.

*******

The third type [of party], the "doof", was coined more recently in Australia.

Doof party-goer: It's the sound, doof, doof, doof, doof ... the sound of the bass speakers going hard core outside, because you have no walls and things for it to bounce back and echo badly.... The music varies in speed, from 120 beats per minute, to 200 beats per minute. And although high b.p.m.'s, and repetitive beats are common characteristics, it's the feel, what's going on under the beat that differentiates. Electronic music styles have sprouted like shoots off the main stems of house, trance, hard core, techno and drum and bass. So you have happy house, hard house, and funky house, deep trance, acid trance, and goa trance, happy hardcore, industrial hardcore and killcore, garage, jungle and hardstep - to name a fraction. And each subgroup has a substantial following.

The master manipulators of the music are the DJs, John Ferris has worked as a DJ for more than ten years.

John Ferris: One of the things about the raves is that generally speaking because they weren't licensed, it was any age, and so you did have a lot of kids going there; which I didn't think was necessarily a bad thing at all. And the kids were generally the ones in Sydney that drove the music to particular styles as well, to the happy hardcore and the faster styles, 160, 170, 180 beats per minute.

Chris Bullock: What's the maximum you can go to until it just becomes a wall of noise?

John Ferris: About 210 beats a minute. I mean I've been to a couple of things where it's been that fast, and it's just like, what is the point! Nobody dances to that, they try and dance, y'know it makes it difficult. At about 170, 180 you can do a half time dance to it.

Chris Bullock: That's sort of taking it to it's limit is it?

John Ferris: Yeah, you do a reggae kind of feel to it you know. So you divide it in half. Happy hardcore uses as lot of samples, of other popular songs, whether they be TV themes, or a whole range of things like that, and speed them up. The emphasis is fully on the sound, and the overwhelmingness of the sound, and it completely takes control of people. That's the whole point of it. Physically you feel the entire bass and kick drum takes over your whole body, it pounds your body into submission I guess, is one way of looking at it. That's what it always felt like. And interestingly enough a lot of people who did take Ecstasy at these events would stand right next to the speaker box, with their head into the speaker box.

Chris Bullock: And do you know any of these people, and what they're hearing's like now?

John Ferris: Shocking, it's shocking, of course it is, yes. I mean they were crazy, you know. Most DJs are sensible and wear earphones, but the punters don't care.

*************

Chris Bullock: The excitement of a rave is not just in the music, it's in the journey, getting ready, getting there, being there, and getting back.

Alex: We used to get nervous, everybody says that we used to get nervous before we'd go and we'd all trek there on the train, and it would just be massive, and we would never know what to expect. Half the time we didn't even know where we were going.

***************

doofers met at a nearby pub and waited for word of the location. ... The crowd gathered around a portable beat box, from 10pm on a chilly spring night waiting for the sound system to arrive. Aleex explained why she was there ...

Aleex: Creating a publicity stunt, because like often when you try and have a doof outside somewhere the police soon enough turn it off, or tell us to turn it down because it's too loud, disturbing the peace apparently. It just takes one neighbour to complain about the noise, and we have to stop it, even though there could be 500 people enjoying it, one person can stop it.

********

Chris Bullock: So this was a secret location, was there a reason for that?

Aleex: A secret location, oh no, this one in particular is not so secret. But you know no-one really knows the site until the last minute really, to throw off the scent like.

Chris Bullock: Who are you trying to throw off the scent?

Aleex: The authorities.

*******.

Chris Bullock: Party drugs are the basis for a good night for many people. And Ecstasy is the most popular. Some of those E'ing or tripping, are very young, 14, 15, 16 years old; powerful chemicals in developing bodies. It's not hard to understand why Ecstasy is so popular with ravers. The drug works by releasing large amounts of a neurotransmitter called serotonin, from the base of the brain. This extra serotonin makes a person feel euphoric, and energetic. In Britain, lab tests on rats have shown the drug not only produces hyperactivity but hyperactivity of a repetitive kind, a perfect match for the energy and repetitive beats of a rave.

***********

Chris Bullock: Describe some of them [places where raves have been held pe]. On beaches in the sand, in dunes, inland in dunes beside a creek, I've done it up in mountains, in high altitudes, I've done it in the Himalayas.

Chris Bullock: You've doofed in the Himalayas?

Aleex: Yeah, Menali Valley mainly.

Chris Bullock: Did you go to the Himalayas to doof?

Aleex: No. But I certainly indulged in it while I was there. I mean part of a good doof is the trip getting there.

Chris Bullock: And how long might that trip take?

Aleex: Oh, it's taken hours sometimes. But you do it at all hours, I've done ones that have started at three in the morning, or at six, or at sunset, sunrise.

Chris Bullock: And this one's starting fairly early at about ten, or it hasn't started yet.

Aleex: Yeah, it's really early. See most people usually come fashionably late.

Chris Bullock: The sound system arrived fashionably late, at 2am, after being held up by a flat battery on the truck. Then there was a scramble to get sound happening for the shivering crowd, who by that stage built a fire on the hill. The fruit bats in the fig trees didn't know what was about to hit them.

Short Description: S/Y King Arawak 17.15 m, 4 double cabins with bath

Long Description: The King Arawak is just an example of the large fleet at disposal of the Arawak Sailing Club, important agency located in Trieste on the NE coast of Italy.

The King Arawak is a comfortable yacht of 17.15 mt.available for charter. It is composed by 4 double cabins with private bath
and shower and 1 cabin for crew (maximum 10 guests). Arawak Sailing Club organize beautiful cruises around Croatian coast and Greece area starting from Trieste (Italy), Split (for Croatia) and Corfù (Greece), Mediterranean and Caribbean Sea. We can organize One way charter and we have a lot of boats available all around the world to satisfy clients wishes. Arawak Sailing Club has selected the best professional team, speaking Italian, English, French and Spanish.

Visit our web site: www.arawak.it and send your requests to:
info@arawak.it. The reservation Dept. is at your disposal for requests
information.

I believe one other clarification may be useful.  Various posters speak of "Babylon" in riddle e-mails with reference to the ancient city. I believe that the references to Babylon in those e-mails have to do w. Rasta. The usage is based on the ancient city but refer sin the more contemporary sense to corruption, politics, police, law, oppression, etc.





Extracts:

The term Babylon is used in Rasta terms with much negative connotations. It is something that they are radically opposed to. Corruption, politics, police, laws, and cities are often reffered to as"Babylon". Although it is possible to see these mechanisms as having qualities that are detrimental to the well-being of any society, there are elements of oppresion that take shape through these various creations of civilization. These mechanisms were created out of neccesity, else civilization would fall apart. (Note: It is quite possible that there are benefits of living in more natural, smaller bands of people, but we will assume that in the Mesopotamian era,
people valued the security and various facilities of city life.)

There are oppressive aspects of police, politics and laws that cause them to be labeled as Babylon, although it is not true to say that these insitutions where created with the intent of harm. The harm that is brought about stems from the institution's ignorance or insesitivity to the suffering that is created. Ignorance and insensivity are not always syncronous with evil and malice- many times they are the necessary first steps to wisdom and higher intuition. However, it is not my intention to defend these mechanisms of civilization, because it can be argued that these institutions are still oppressive, 4000 years later.

The materialistic nature of Ancient Babylon provides us with sharp
contrasting element to the Rastafarian Ideology. Rastafarian religion
places high value on the natural world as something that should be lived in harmony with, but not controlled. The Rastafarians believe that they should live their life as Jah intends is to be lived. The emphasis here is on the personal, subjective understanding of one's purpose in life. The ancient Babylon mentality that is prevalent today, has many contrary elements to Rastafarian ideology. For example, modern society values its members according to their wealth, and ability to work in a"professional"setting.

The Babylon mentality sees daily life as serving a utility, but does not place importance on the experiential and mystical elements of living.

Thursday, June 30, 2005 at 12:21 AM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink
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Have at it inquirers of "Shango" and his cryptic messages!

Posted by: wreck | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 01:04 AM

My take on Shango and Simian

Natalee and her first boyfriend were in the casino gambling. It's on videotape. Her first boyfriend owns a gigantic house(wonder how he paid for it?) in the sticks where he has all night rave parties. The party goers have provided an alibi for their friend (he was with them)This boyfriend also owns a fancy cigarette speedboat (does anyone have any idea how much those things cost?) and 2 other houses. This boyfriend also is reported to be a major drug dealer.(hmm maybe thats where he gets all his money?) The police and politicians reportedly have their hands in the cookie jar of the drug trade. If the first boyfriend is arrested, he might name names. The cover-up is not for Joran, but for the first boyfriend...

Posted by: letsbefair | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 01:42 AM

Ponder this theory from Aruban blogger..

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Cant deny it. Its on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?

Posted by: letsbefair | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 01:46 AM

Shango says,

The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

"the house was dusted" means that the rave party house was cleaned of evidence

"they have seen from the corners of their eyes" means that the party goers know what happened to Natalee

"the party goers need to be pressured" means that if these people are arrested they will start telling the truth

"the alibi needs to be broken" means that the party goers are covering for their host

can anyone guess why LVR was released?

and what was this airtight alibi?


Posted by: letsbefair | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 01:48 AM

Shango Says:

One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA


Posted by: letsbefair | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 01:52 AM

Dan you are a whack. God bless free speech. God bless America.

dave

Posted by: daveness | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 02:59 AM

Finally, we are getting at the truth.

Posted by: proudredneck | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 06:08 AM

You people are nut cases. Pleez...

Posted by: Mary | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 06:16 AM

No, just trying to get the truth out here. The video in the casinos will not lie.

Posted by: proudredneck | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 06:39 AM

"and what was this airtight alibi?"

That he was home the whole night according to his friends.

Posted by: Sjaantje | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 06:54 AM

I have been reading many of the posts here and at SM. It came over me last night and maybe I'm just catching up..but, has anyone checked the marinas and boats around the island? On or off shore. I feel like there is a possibility that Natalee is still alive and being held for ransom. Ransom, not from her parents, but from Dirty Hand and the Aruban government. If drug smuggling and sex trading etc seems to be the larger income with someone in the government providing cover; why wouldn't an unpaid debt be the motive to hold a high profile American that would attract so much media attention and have the potential of draining the legal income of the island? Just my thoughts and ramblings. I have just been touched and bothered by the whole situation. My sister was murdered when she was 18 and when I first saw Natalee and her perfect eyeliner, the first thing that came to my mind was my sister. I pray for her safe return and resolution.

Posted by: Confused | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 08:18 AM

A girl called me once to talk. She asked me to pick her up, that she was concerned that she was involved in something bigger than she was capable of taking care of. I went to talk to her. I realized she was involved in something bigger than both of us. I wanted to befriend her, but I was no longer a teenager and would not risk my life to help her. I am no hero. Things finally came to a head. Fortunately for her, she is fine now. I think she married a man from Holland and has relocated.

Posted by: proudredneck | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 08:31 AM

This is an alternate reality, one that must be exposed to understand all the different scenarios that may have happened. The underbelly of the night life scene is not one that is understood or acknowledged by many people because it sounds
"too weird" or "out there". It must be considered to to rule out all possibilities. I thank all who have taken the time to research this line of investigation. It does seem that a person has disappeared into thin air. At the very least this vein of investigation helps others to understand that these venues exist..remember, Elizabeth Smart was seen going to Raves when she was missing.

Posted by: Selena | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 08:47 AM

Greta's show last night made it clear that the Aruban government is not capable of handling a professional investigation for numerous reasons.

And it is also clear that the FBI is not going to be allowed to meaningful participate for numerous reasons.

The only way a professional investigation could possibly be undertaken now would be if the Hague stepped in and did so. However, I would be surprized if that happened...if the Hague got more directly involved there is not much of a political upside for them but a lot downside potential...and the problems they would find would require them to be there long term which they probably would not want to do.

Posted by: Dman | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 09:03 AM

Oh, yes, the Hague who have so "successfully" prosecuted Milosovich and their star player is Hans Blitz, a/k/a oil-for-food scandals.

Posted by: proudredneck | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 09:25 AM

It's all starting to make sense now. Thanks, Dan, for putting this together! I pray to God that Natalee is found alive but I think the most likely scenario is she overdosed (unknowingly) and Joran is taking the fall for the drug supplier/rave host. Shango, please keep talking so this case can be solved!

Posted by: One-dog-lover | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 10:19 AM

The wicked kingdom of oppression that thinks of money as love and work as life. It shall be cast away, scutter, flutter, shut up, & scut up. Let the dead bury the dead, & let the dread be conscious in the head. For these are crucial times, babylon speaks of new world order, implanted computer chips, reintroducing mandatory school suits, laws & lays more bumbo klaat bloody ignorant laws.

How much control shall one have over another? Babylon wants total control!! They want your soul. They need your withdrawal of your true self for their plan of conquer to reign! They begin to brainwash you from the very start, and slowly, very slowly, you're mesmerized and captured by the beasts ways


Posted by: Key West | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 10:24 AM

I am starting to think that same thing one-dog-lover, Joran is covering for somebody else to save his own life. He probably took her to wherever. .rave party.. she od'd and he left her there for someone else to take care of things.. he knows something bad happened to Natalee.. but he can't talk or they will kill him and probably his family too.

Posted by: Sarah | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 11:05 AM

Well one problem. Natalee never hooked up with anyone the first three days or had a first b/f that is all crap.

Posted by: Justin T | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 11:40 AM

Babylon the bandit, dash in a bottomless pit...Babylon, time has caught up on you

Posted by: Key West | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 11:43 AM

For some reason, I believe in a few years time, Joran will become a drug addict (due to the psychological pressures). We might read a blip about him dying tragicly or committing suicide somewhere.

Posted by: Dead | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 03:05 PM

"I am starting to think that same thing one-dog-lover, Joran is covering for somebody else to save his own life. He probably took her to wherever. .rave party.. she od'd and he left her there for someone else to take care of things.. he knows something bad happened to Natalee.. but he can't talk or they will kill him and probably his family too."

I've been thinking the same thing for the past few days. It explains some of the loose ends and odd actions exhibited by some of the "players," in my opinion.


Posted by: Mary | Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 03:34 PM

"I am starting to think that same thing one-dog-lover, Joran is covering for somebody else to save his own life. He probably took her to wherever. .rave party.. she od'd and he left her there for someone else to take care of things.. he knows something bad happened to Natalee.. but he can't talk or they will kill him and probably his family too."

I've been thinking the same thing for the past few days. It explains some of the loose ends and odd actions exhibited by some of the "players," in my opinion.


Posted by: Mary Schroeder | Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 03:35 PM

"I am starting to think that same thing one-dog-lover, Joran is covering for somebody else to save his own life. He probably took her to wherever. .rave party.. she od'd and he left her there for someone else to take care of things.. he knows something bad happened to Natalee.. but he can't talk or they will kill him and probably his family too."

I've been thinking the same thing for the past few days. It explains some of the loose ends and odd actions exhibited by some of the "players," in my opinion.


Posted by: Mary | Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 03:37 PM

Is it me or is there a huge cultural abyss between perceptions in the states and on Aruba?

I'm reading these theories about her "first boyfriend" and his possessions, big house, big boat, blah blah blah blah...C'mon. She's there for what, four days? and she's hooked up with several boyfriends? Right. Stellar student and pre-med, full ride scholarship to U of A canidate takes post high school vacation with 125 fellow friends, classmates and parent chaperones to a tropical island looking for ...boyfriends? Because that Deepok and Satish are two hot hunks!!! Not to mention Joran Munster.

One word, two syllables, sounds like cupid.

Posted by: FloridaPatty | Saturday, July 23, 2005 at 01:18 PM

OK . . . so the restaurant had a band called "The Maze" . . .

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 05:51 PM

ok Im here

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:05 PM

Why are they so ADAMANT that this is crazy? It could hold some answers. We certainly have found no answers elsewher and I find it hard to believe that there is NO evidence yet.

17 year old boy in prison for almost 2 months. That is a lifetime for someone his age. He would talk if he were not SCARED to talk.

Posted by: letfreedomring | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:05 PM

I don't know if there anything to the Shango, it could be it's just general enough to fit into any scenario. Need to read through the whole thing. I remember someone posted about a boat named Mary that was seized or something a week or so back. They thought it might be the Mary that was not a virgin.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:06 PM

There's no evidence against Joran and the Kalpoes. Some people are more interested in hanging them, then they are in finding Natalee...

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:07 PM

Freedom,

Did Joren actually say he was afraid for his life?

And I think everyone is just frustrated that there is nothing new about the case, everything that might have been a clue has been disproven.

I think the Shango is worth looking at. Anything is worth looking at at this point.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:08 PM

just,

I think "Mary whos is not a virgin" was a cute play on words describing Natalee.

I think the boat that was seized had to do with an email address in Deepak's pocket when he was a arrested.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:10 PM

I do think that Joren and the Kalpoes know something. Perhaps not involved as much as everyone thinks though. I would hate to see someone innocent take the blame. Also hate to see them get away with anything.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:10 PM

Hi you guys.
Hope you don't mind if I followed you over here...
I totally think there's something to all this.
If it's a problem, let me know... don't wanna interfere.

Posted by: BeFuddled | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:10 PM

Hey BeFuddled! The more the merrier! Just seemed everyone was getting a little upset about Shango posts over there.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:12 PM

I started reading the posts at scared monkeys early on looking for LVR info. It looks like Shango picked up on Simian's theory. (because Simians theory predates Shango) Simian said a lot of interesting stuff, you get the feeling when you read it that hes with the Aruban PD or knows someone there. He would predict arrests and releases without error.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:13 PM

"I think the boat that was seized had to do with an email address in Deepak's pocket when he was a arrested."

I didn't hear anything about this.

Mary not a virgin. Interesting choice of words. Guess maybe he was just saying she wasn't as innocent as everyone thinks.


Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:14 PM

The most interesting thing I've heard so far was that VDS told Nat's aunt that they had a witness on the beach, and that it might be true that Joran left her there.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:15 PM

Remember the post by Dan with the story from an unidentified source? I bet that's Shango.

OK . . . big question first . . . what do you think Shango's motivation in posting the information was (supposing it is real)? Why would a cop want to leak it out?

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:16 PM

Shango Says:

June 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pm

To find answers, one must Google if smoke signals blowing in strong wind

Not sure what to do with this info.


Posted by: BeFuddled | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:16 PM

JL sent me a really interesting email too. Bug him for it.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:16 PM

Shango was well read and Simian too. Smart cookies having fun screwing with our heads. The stuff is all still there at scared monkeys. You have to go back to the end of June.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:18 PM

Strong winds? Trade winds? Hurricane? Just googled it, nothing stands out.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:18 PM

first.... i don't think it's smoke signals....
I think it's if the smoke signals that there is....

Posted by: BeFuddled | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:20 PM

"Shango was well read and Simian too. Smart cookies having fun screwing with our heads."

Yah probably. I would usually think that when people posting like they are in the know, it's for attention. But this time does that seem to be the case?

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:20 PM

I think Shango was trying to say that he was sending up smoke signals. And that the other posters were the "strong wind". Arawaks were the original Indian tribe on Aruba - I found that out with Google...

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:21 PM

BRB... hubbie just got himself into a hornets nest...ouch


Posted by: BeFuddled | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:21 PM

"I think Shango was trying to say that he was sending up smoke signals. And that the other posters were the "strong wind"."

Ahh ok.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:23 PM

Simian had some good stuff. Early on he didn't post in riddles and you could see it starting. I don't know why. Maybe he was scared of retribution. He pointed the finger straight at LVR. And a lot of other Aruban bloggers too. I guess LVR is a major drug dealer.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:23 PM

Well . . . the longer they go without evidence, the more I think that some really knowledgable people are involved. People knowledgable in disposing of bodies and evidence.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:26 PM

A lot of info is really being played down.

The DNA on the toothbrush could mean that Natalee had another friend before Joran. Who wants to bet it's not Joran's DNA.

The witness at the beach.

The early morning phonecalls. No one wants to talk about them, but I'll bet the time gets Joran or the Kalpoes off the hook. They must know the time. I've seen reports of 4:00 , but I don't know if that was reliable.

There were some posters asking Natalee to call home? Strange.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:28 PM

Remember the post by Dan with the story from an unidentified source? I bet that's Shango.

May I join you three? Feel like a voyeur . . .

Why do you think Dan's source is Shango?

Posted by: deep breath | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:28 PM

I have to take off for a while. BBL. Let's try to get the people that want to talk about Shango over here.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:29 PM

Get the email from JL. That's one of Dan's sources (I think. Maybe?)

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:29 PM

Deep Breath,

Join in! :)

Just a feeling. Not many people do things without getting some kind of credit (human nature). Both Dan's unidentified source and Shange have that in common.

K BBL.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:31 PM

Well . . . the longer they go without evidence, the more I think that some really knowledgable people are involved. People knowledgable in disposing of bodies and evidence.

Posted by: just_lurking | July 30, 2005 06:26 PM


I don't see how the 3 boys could have pulled this off. Not with the timeline. And then we have the early morning phonecalls. There must be other people involved in her disappearance. It's frustrating, cuz most people can't see that.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:33 PM

I Gotta go now. Bye.

Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:37 PM

Freedom,

Did Joren actually say he was afraid for his life?

And I think everyone is just frustrated that there is nothing new about the case, everything that might have been a clue has been disproven.

I think the Shango is worth looking at. Anything is worth looking at at this point.

Posted by: just_lurking | July 30, 2005 06:08 PM

Just_lurking - sorry, I am on and off this today. No, Joran never said he fears for his life, but think back to when you were 17. Remember how LONG summer seemed? Joran has been in jail for that long. He must be afraid to talk. I doubt he killed her and hid her. There would be some evidence somewhere. Now, perhaps the LE blew it, but I just have to think that he is scared to talk.

Posted by: letfreedomring | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:44 PM

JL - I think I may already have the email. Can we take this offline? You have my email address.

Posted by: letfreedomring | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:46 PM

Hey everyone, I too am interested in pursing this Shango riddle so count me in. JL I am back if you want to update me in email.

Posted by: annie | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 07:29 PM

Shango says follow the music. I'm finally listening.

Posted by: markmywords | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 06:29 PM

Well it looks like no one wants to do the Shango Tango.  :oops:

One of the interesting post from that to me was this one.

I don't know if there anything to the Shango, it could be it's just general enough to fit into any scenario. Need to read through the whole thing. I remember someone posted about a boat named Mary that was seized or something a week or so back. They thought it might be the Mary that was not a virgin.

Posted by: just_lurking | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:06 PM

Klaas

nychic had a post on FP (about Sander) from solo paabl...(the paper).  Picture of Vancromfort house (with street number) in it. I think someone asked about house.

http://tinyurl.com/hfs5q    Takes a minute to load.

Sam

Too tired to stay.  I remember reading most of what you posted.  For some reason, I don't remember the part about a boat, theArawak King.  Hmmmmm....thanks..

Thanks..I saw the post and gave up trying to get it to load.  Will let it take it's time now that I know it's slow.

New Front Page Post

Amigoe (Aruba): Radar main issue of political squabbling. “The radar that for more than ten years is not in working order”

(http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Fix_20it_20yourself_small.jpg)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/01/amigoe-aruba-radar-main-issue-of-political-squabbling-the-radar-that-for-more-than-ten-years-is-not-in-working-order/

Heard Dompig traded the "state of the art" system for a Mercedes.  Having verified with second source, so please don't make it a FP post  :lol:

Great name for him.   :lol:  :lol:

Wild thing!  Hmmmm, I think I love you.

You don’t have to love me just……………..

Hello!

Don't mes with me,  My hands want to hurt you. I want to hurt you.  If you mess with me.  I will break you!  Shut up or I will slap you silly!  Bring ot on, because it would be a mistake!  I'll bust your ass and have fun doing it!  Don't mess with me.

You want to take a swing at me?  Bring it on!

This makes sense. Mary, the boat, who is not a virgin = boat has been used before for crime(s) of _____________?

A redneck family from the hills was visiting the city and they were in a mall for the first time in their lives. The father and son were strolling around while the wife shopped.
 
They were amazed by almost everything they saw, but especially by two shiny, silver walls that could move apart and then slide back together again. The boy asked, "Paw, what's at?"
 
The father (never having seen an elevator) responded, "Son, I dunno. I ain't never seen anything like that in my entire life, I ain't got no idea'r what it is."
 
While the boy and his father were watching with amazement, a fat old lady in a wheel chair rolled up to the moving walls and pressed a button. The walls opened and the lady rolled between them into a small room. The walls closed and the boy and his father watched the small circular number above the walls light up sequentially. They continued to watch until it reached the last number and then the numbers began to light in the reverse order. Then the walls opened up again and a gorgeous, voluptuous 24 year-old blonde woman stepped out.
 
The father, not taking his eyes off the young woman, said quietly to his son,
"Boy..................go git cha Momma...............

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

And....there is a big incentive to report a stolen cell. The thief could rack up a big charge on your phone. Maybe Sander knew he didn't have to worry about that.

~ I think we are alone now ~

~There doen't seem to be anyone around~

Where's my book?

IMG]http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/ChristmasTime2004.gif[/IMG]

:cry:

In the getto...

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/ChristmasTime2004.gif)

Damn!  I'm getting old!

EasyWriter...You lost a "["...lol

Especially if the phone had pics or texts on it.  And why was it Freddy he called to talk about it??

justinsmama

I could use that elevator. What Mall is it at??  :lol:

I asked Jossy to say hello to a local reporter.  He did without question.  He is a true friend.

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/Me.gif)

Say What?

I'm a soul man.... ~~~~

Easy,

Did you listen to that oldies' station all night long?  :lol:

Would some kind monkey please tell me how to post a Google Earth picture here? I'll check back later. Thanks! :D

Are you talking about my friend?  She sent me wdding pictures.

<<<<<<<<< That's me! lol

Goodmorning All -

BT - you just need to upload it to photobucket so you can post it, otherwise it will be way too large.  I always resize them in photoshop first then upload to photobucket, that way I can mark landmarks and make notes too.

List of Joran's Story Changes:

Who was the girl whose money he helped win back in the casino?
1. Natalee (C. Croes, Sander's 6/16 statement)
2. Ruth

Did he see Ruth in CnCs?
1. When they walked in Ruth greeted him and told him he should go dance with Natalee because she fancied him (J 6/9)
2. He never spoke to Ruth in CnCs and isn't sure if he even saw her there (Greta interview)

Did they take Natalee to his house?
1. No, Natalee wanted to go home with him, but they didn't go because his father and brothers were home (6/9 statement)
2. Yes, Natalee wanted to go home with him, and they drove by, but didn't go inside because his father and brothers were home (PTL interview)

Did they take Natalee to the lighthouse?
1. Yes (6/9 statement)
2. No

What sexual activity did he engage in with Natalee?
1. Oral sex in car (told to Croes on 5/31, not repeated)
2. Digital penetration (6/9 statement)

Where did this sexual activity take place?
1. In the car, after they passed the Marriott (6/9 statement)
2. On the beach, after they got out at the Marriott

Where did he last see Natalee?
1. When she was dropped off at HI
2. When 2K dropped him off at home and drove off with her (6/11 statement)
3. When he left her on the beach

What condition was Natalee in when he last saw her?
1. Asleep on the beach (6/14 statement)
2. Awake on the beach

How did he get home from the beach?
1. Deepak
2. Satish
3. Walked (according to Dompig, this was his latest version at the time of Dompig's VF interview)

Did Satish get out of the car when he picked him up?
1. "I’d walked to the car. We got in the car" (PTL interview)
2.  No (Greta interview)

I look like a mean SOB don't I?  lol

Shizaru

He mentions Kathleen (in Greta interview ?).  Because he heard it (read it??) later?

Not to me - but then I'm an Easywriter Groupie.  :lol:

 :wink:  I feel purple...

Don't we all, Easy, don't we all?  :lol:  8)  :P

Thanks, Klaas. I didn't have a clue how it worked.

"Kathleen" and Ruth are the same.  Why he was calling her Kathleen in his Greta interview I don't know, but he was talking about Ruth.  He says in his 6/9 interview the girl whose money he helped win back was on his left, in the casino video that's Ruth.  And Madison told the FBI the girl whose money he helped win back was Ruth.

I know that.  I thought the list was what Joran said...not what we think he meant...

Maybe list should say girl on left (Ruth) and Kathleen (Greta). ??

<<<< That be me too!

Are you twins??  :lol:

Hubby just walked by the laptop and said, "That's not really Easywriter is it? That guy looks like a movie star."  :lol:  :lol:

http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=FN47039462


Wishing All the Monkeys a Happy and Safe (and somewhat soggy) Holiday Week end!

TY Jacq. Same to you. (But it's gonna be sunny here.)

good morning miss bt....

Do you know if Cochese is out of the hospital yet?

If you talk with him, send him well wishes from me....

Girl on his left, who he calls Kathleen, but whose name is actually Ruth

Well enjoy the sun and soak up some for me!!! :lol:  :lol:

Poor Cochese ended up having part of his lung removed.  :(

He hopes to go home from the hospital tomorrow.

Ten years ago, I went to a welcome party.  I was encircled.  A woman walked up to me and said...

You look like....?

Are you a movie star?

Gosh you're a hottie!

All of the above?

Oh God, BT I'm so sorry to hear that.
I'll say an extra prayer for him for a speedy recovery and a return to good health...

"Do I know you?"  Something about you.  It must be the Hollywood face.

Thanks! Back at ya, Jacquie :D

We saw that NJ had 100% chance of rain all day today. Sorry :(

We've started out sunny -- but we've been warned to not let that trick us into thinking it will stay this way. Yesterday we had the long tail of Ernesto's 'feeders'  bringing storm conditions west to east across S Florida.

On my way out while it is still nice.

Does anyone remember the movie Mystic Pizza with a young Julia Roberts?

The guy she meets in the film (the real rich cute one) ...

I don't know his name, but....

That's who you remind me of....Especially in the picture of you playing pool, cause they played pool in the movie.

Yeah it's a total bust this week end weather wise.

i was going to go down the shore and brave the weather just to be there but it's so windy and rainy, not worth it......

I'm glad!

Does anyone here think Easy is too old for a woman who is 35?

I'm phenomenal.

I reach out and then I get results.

That's pretty quick after having lung surgery. They usually have to use either a rib spreader or cut a window in the ribs and then wire them back in place.  Yowch!  Did he say why he had to have part of the lung removed?

His lung collapsed. The doctor said because he's a tall, thin smoker. The lung kept collapsing in the hospital, so they had to remove 10% of it to get rid of the hole that was causing the problem.

 Cochese says the doctor told him that he (Cochese) quit smoking last Saturday night when the lung first collapsed. :lol:

If you're talking about what I thinkyou're talking about, good luck with the results.  :wink:  :P

Heavens, no! Go for it, Easy!

I dont know how old Easy is...

But.......no I don't think so ...A woman of 35 should be able to go out with anyone she wants regardless of age....JMHO

I'm trying to play matchmaker between Easy and a girly who has caught his eye. Thanks for the backup.

Yesterday smoke seemed to curl around the ceiling fan.  Look into my eyes and tell me that the fan won't work.

Good Morning Everybody!!   :D

Easy  You silly man.  Go for it!!  You're not too old and she's not too young.  Good luck.  She better be good to you.  Of course BT would only fix ya up with the best.

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/ChristmasTime2004.gif)

Thanks, Snoopy. I'm trying to tell him. Good grief - the silly man thinks he's old!!!

Pffftttt!!!!!

I'm thinkin' that fan works, Easy.  :wink:

Easy ain't old.  Heck we're about the same age I think.  I'm just gettin started.  pppffftttt Well with a little Advil ya know.   :roll:  :lol:  8)

it had finally after the video came to light had to be said.... because it's very evident that Natalee never even looked at joran really.... so he had to admit the truth....

What's all this nonsense about Joron not liking boats?  We seen a picture of him with some gal on a catameran (spelling)!  Liar

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/jacqueline111/adamstork.jpg)

Actor Adam Storke....

Reminds me of Easy....

All you monkeys have a wonderful Saturday.

I'm about to go check out the new market here that has "gourmet food from 50 countries."

Hmmm.....might have a big grocery bill this week.

The question is how young do you feel inside.  I look in the mirror and see a middle aged woman, but I still feel like I'm twenty-something inside.  I need a magic mirror or something.  LOL.

Can we open an Easy groupie thread and discuss it in the lounge?

Have a good day BT.  I have chicken and pork steaks in the smoker, baked beans in the oven., potato salad made, and all kinds of other stuff we shouldn't have.  ppfftt. Mother and father in law coming over.  Gotta score me some points!  8)

Easy is better looking than Adam Storke!

Nap time for this primate!

sounds good Snoopy

I been lookin for one of them darn mirrors for a long time.  I just tell everybody those are smile wrinkles.  Mary Kay is wonderful!!

Well come on down mrs!!  FM ditched me so I'm on my own.  Where is that woman anyhow?  Geez I miss her.

Don’t let the smile fool you.  I’m meaner than a junk yard dog!  And I enjoy eating my prey!

So why can't you do this in the lounge?  Are you bored again?

I think she is around somewhere....

Sistah Mrs...you have mail from me...

I seriously doubt that Easy.  We ain't scared  :lol:

Hopefully, Joran is quaking in his boots right now, thinking that the new Dutch investigators are going to question ALL of the many inconsistencies he's uttered over the last 15 months.  I hope they drop a hammer the size of King Kong on him.

BBL

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr

No... Go for it ! !

No story and the statements make me laugh.

I sure hope so!!!

I'm heading out for some errands.  BBL.  :D

With all due respect, the fact that the statements are so lame is a part of the story.... it shows just how ugly this cover up is....

Hey Grande ~ thanks for having this all together ~ and thanks, Kat for seeing that picture that needed to be taken out!

 :oops: And Good morning Monkeys!  Working on graphics and lurking this morning...  I expect it to be slow anyways, though...

1st victims of Ky. plane crash buried

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_us/kentucky_crash_11

STANFORD, Ky. - Clark and Bobbie Sue Benton were supposed to be vacationing in the Caribbean. Instead, they were buried in this south-central Kentucky town, five days after they were killed when Comair Flight 5191 crashed.

"We're asking difficult questions," the Rev. Wayne Galloway said Friday at their funeral, attended by more than 300 people at Calvary Hill Baptist Church. "Why? Why do bad things happen to good people."

The Bentons, among 49 people killed in the Lexington crash on Sunday, were on their way to Aruba, a 50th birthday present from husband to wife.

I totally agree, Mrs. Red...  lets say it one more time ~ just because it's so true!

The fact that the statements are so lame is aa part of the story...

A part that I am so hoping this new team from Holland will prosecute too!

Easy's Place here:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=44268#44268

Hey Katz.... I hope you have my bumper sticker saved some where... I will add it back again... at least I want to....

Oh geez...  me too ~ saying a prayer right now...

Thanks Justins...

And other than BFN, where else do you see this??  How disrespectful of KLAASEND who has damn near learned Dutch translating these....

I miss Mermaid too...  though I'll never be in her class as far as cooking goes....  And I miss Tyler too...  she used to explain stuff so patiently to me...  ::sigh::

 :oops: oops...  Sorry, Klaas...

Yeah...   :oops: I have it ~ give me a minute to find it, Mrs. Red...  I tend to not delete anything...  I just get a new Mac every few years when the HD gets full...

I'm so hoping Santa brings me a new Mac for Christmas!   :lol: Or right afterwards, when we make all that Christmas and New Years money!   :D

Huh?  I'm sorry, Mrs. Red ~ I really don't understand...  Please explain what you mean...

What I mean is that I found Easy's comment about  thinking the statements weren't worth reading or that they weren't news  to be disrespectful of all the work that has gone into putting them out there to be read....

Now, granted, maybe I read his comment wrong, but I know how many hours have been spent by Klaasend translating... and it bothered me... because it shows that there wasn't an investigation... just a few friends chatting...

 :lol:  :wink:

Folks, there is so much to actually talk about it is not even funny.

Hats off to Klaas for her crash course in Dutch.

The statements show so many things not only in what was actually said, but in how the "spin doctors" tried to manipulate the media last summer. I am sure even the most ardent individuals that have been against the family and for JVDS are scratching their heads by what was said.

Also, we were told that the suspects were interrogated hours at ens and ever day ... BS. They were not.

You can also see the the questioning in the statements that most of us probably got a bigger grilling in Elementary school when a tack was left in someone's chair or a spitball that was shot at someone.

Please realize what you are actually looking at. This was the hard work that was put forth by the ALE that was in-turn given to the Prosecutors and then in front of a judge. Gee ... they were all released, why?

A third grader could connect the dots and have asked better follow up questions. Now Aruba asks for Hollands assistance?

Look how the statements change. Look who knew what, where, when and why? Looks at the names that pop up that no one had ever mentioned. Look at events that claimed to have happened that no one talked of.

Now as you read, remember back as to what all the officials, ALE, prosecutors, media, attys were saying.

Thank you Klaas for all your hard work. Things like this don't just grow on trees.

............."Give me the name of your dentist." :D

 :oops: Oh...  Okies....  I think I understood what he was saying and didn't get upset...  

I was hoping I didn't get you upset...  That's what the question was really about {{{hugs}}}

You know...  these statements that ALE have from the suspects and witnesses are really a sham ~ it shows just how little they wanted to investigate and solve this murder...

And that's a damn crying shame!

The police work that we see in these statements is way beyond shoddy ~ it's criminal ~ IMHO ~ which isn't all that humble...

It looks like a "good ole boy" kind of investigation to me...

And it just fries me...

And here's your "Banned" picture, Mrs. Red...  you can use my photobucket link ~ or put the picture someplace else that you want...  hummmm  if Photobucket comes back with something dumb like bandwidth exceeded ~ I'll post it somewhere else too for ya....  here...

(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c186/MarysKid/BannedFromAruba.jpg)

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c186/MarysKid/BannedFromAruba.jpg

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9121/bannedfromarubaus6.jpg

:oops: oopsie...  I guess it was small...  is that small enough, Mrs. Red ~ and Klaas ~ can you delete that second post ~ cause the picture is the same size as the first one!

Further ... when one might feel a lull ... there are so many other missing person, unsolved crime, political, or any news related (fun or serious) people can talk about.

There is so very much to discuss ....

Has anyone checked out the MP thread on the sad story of Marcus Fiesel? A local OH columnists contacted us yesterday and included SM in the article.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=44283#44283

Newspapers and television stations in southwest Ohio have followed every step in the case, and now that his foster parents have been charged, the story has grabbed the attention of media outlets throughout the United States.

There are Web sites that feature photo albums, message boards, chat rooms and slide and video shows. One of those is www.scaredmonkeys.com, dedicated to exploited and missing children. "Red," one of the site's co-founders, said after news of Marcus' disappearance was linked to his Web site, he received an e-mail from Marcus' foster mother. She chastised the site for her portrayal.

"As soon as she did that, well, it was like, she's guilty," Red said Friday from his office in Maine. "You knew this was going to end bad. The radar just went up. It raises the hair on the back of your neck. When you kill your son, and go public pleading for help, it brings it to a special level of hell."

He said Marcus' story has drawn widespread coverage because people are so "disgusted by it."

I thank you too Klass...reading these statements has been eye-opening to say the least.  For one thing, I now get the feeling that all of Joran's "friends" are scared of HIM. There are other realizations to glean as well, and it's so obvious that the ALE was only "going through the motions." I wonder why they even bothered? Except, Aruba seems to make a habit of "going through the motions"..ie: Arresting the innocent guards, Paulus' vacation in jail, Joran's escaping American media & Natalee's family by staying in jail so long, the Only-for-PR Visibility Team running around on the beaches for show, etc.etc.etc.....Aruba makes a practice of pretending.

Or, I'm just trying to be kinder, and more understanding, Mrs. Red... ya know...  ::sigh::  {{{hugs}}}  And sorry to be OT ~ but I'm sure glad that Spook wrote us....  I heard back from her yesterday...  she's doing ok...  it's rough...  but she's doing it...

Well my perspective can be different because I know how much work has gone into this....  and I get a little sensitive about it...

I hope everyone reads that article about Marcus... it's so true and so sad....