Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

OK Klaas have fun at the store.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/lalaspen.jpg)

Will be back in a bit!  Hold the fort down, lol  :lol:

P49 lock up?  I've never seen the cage so clean.  Monkeys, we weren't fast enough, or chatty enough for Klaas.  Let this be a lesson.

whew, that wore me out  :lol:

going to go have some lunch and make myself get BACK TO WORK !!

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/OkayFOlks2.jpg)

 :lol:

Looks like a ghost town in here today 8)

What a great interview made my cry again :cry:

WELL NATALEE DID NOT GET A PHONE CALL OF FROM ARUBA ..........

SO WHY WAS CHARLES CROES INVITED THAT NIGHT BETH ARRIVED ...

WHAT PHONE CALL DID HE SAY THEY LISTENED TOO ..........

SEEMS CHARLES CROES WAS THROWN INTO THE FRAY AS A SPY ...........

EVEN CHANGING HIS STATEMENT .............

CHARLES CROES SMELLS ...........

 :roll:

DANA Missed Follow Up Questions Also ................

He Should Let His Listeners Ask The Questions Direct To Dave Or Beth ....

Just Screen The Calls .............

 :roll:

Charles Croes is a (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/POS2.jpg)

San You And I Think Alike .............

When I Get To New York I Would Like To Invite You Out To Lunch .....

Your Pick ..........

 :roll:

Widget I said this last night.  Knowing what you know now as far as evidence goes would you let the public know any crucial information?  I wouldn't.  I ALE could and the Aruban government could rot in hell before I give them any information or evidence I had.

san your way to nice

O/T - PA. POLICE SAY GUNMAN RELEASED BOYS, TIED UP GIRLS BEFORE SHOOTING IN AMISH SCHOOL

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com for more.

This sounds like the other killing in Colorado last week.

Correction typos :shock:  :lol:

I Understand The Point Of Keeping Things Under Hat But ...........

Keeping Important Pieces Of The Puzzle From The Puzzle Solvers Does'nt Make Sense Either ...

I Doubt It Very Much That Our FBI Work As Hard As We Do To Try To Solve This Mess... They Could Nt Even Question Pages In The House
About Foley .......

If Follow Up Questions Were Asked In Regards To The Perps Statements We Would'nt Be Here Today They Would Have Fallen In Their Own Trap ....

Try Solving A 1000 Piece Puzzle With 990 Pieces ....

 :roll:

Arresting The Security Guards Bought The Cover-Up Team Time To Dispose Of All Loose Ends Including Natalee.....
Karin Janssen Being In Charge Of The Whole Investigation, Orchestrated All The Goings On Even To The POint Of Not Swearing In Her Only Witnesses J2K & Probably The Tearing Up Of Jorans Statement As A Witness.......
How Do We Know What She Presented To The Judge??????????
Maybe A Load Of Horseshit ?????????

I Believe She Was Part Of The Original Pool Party Talks At The Sloot Compound Before Anita Arrived .............

Break KJ & You Break Open The Case ................

 :roll:

.
Bush to sign bill to prevent Internet gambling

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/02/061002132728.nt5b8tr6.html

Read 'em and weep, Aruba.  This could really take yet another chunk out of their sleazy economy.

Aruba,
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/2ll13ed_th.gif)

.
Just doing a drive by and really have to work but I did want to leave these for Widget even if he is a liberal. . . . . . He's still my bud!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thgorillabiscuits213.gif)


 :D

I agree.

Satish NOT Going To School On Monday May 30th Is BIG ............

He Did'nt Oversleep !!!!!!!!!!! The Perps Already Had The Pool Meeting Planned..........

Returning Freddy's Camera Is BIG ..........

Lying For Joran Is HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After The World Has Seen These Statements Our Government Is Still..
MUM.......But Iraq Has Weapons Of Mass Destruction.........

Saw CNN Special Concerning The Katrina Aftermath...It Looks Like The Hurricane Hit Yesterday In Most Regions.....Nationwide Is NOT On Your Side & Like A Good Neighbor State Farm Is NOT There...........
People Still Waiting For the 1 Million Promised From The Federal Government Which Is Nothing When You Think It Cost The Government
250 Billion To Destroy Another Country....

Way To Go George ..........

 :roll:

Hi Anna ..........

 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

Buddy ..........

I agree Karin Janssen never did the right thing in this case.  I hope it haunts her the rest of her worthless life.

Can I trade today in for whats behind door #1?  How is everyone doing today?  I agree with Widget about having some sanity checks in this case or the time is spent chasing our tails while those in Aruba watch.  I discount most trails unless it leads to the Sloots or Kalpoes.. I know others are involved in the coverup and maybe even the murder but the Sloots and Kalpoes are the ones that have the most information and control what we know..

I have stated from the beginning that Joran never went to school the morning of the 30th.  When I read in Satish's statement that he did not go to school that morning it just confirms my suspicions about Joran attending school.  The Head Master of the school helped his good buddy Anita cover up Joran's attendance record that day.  I would love to know who the Head Master spoke to that day on the phone.  We already know that he stated something about Natalee drowning.

Phone Call Clarification

Widget writes: "WELL NATALEE DID NOT GET A PHONE CALL OF FROM ARUBA..."

Looking for a clarification here.

My understanding was that Dave said on Dana that there was "no call from Natalee to home (or USA)."

Is this right?

If yes, this does NOT mean that she didn't get a call off.  The call which was made to fellow MBHS student phone could be described as not calling "home" or USA, IMO.

It's quite clear that someone called the MBHS student's phone.  And upon arrival in Aruba and meeting w/ Charles Croes, it's also quite clear HT Family were playing a recorded message from "somebody."

.

I agree with your question, Hammer...  I thought she did get a phone message out to one of the guys on the trip too...

.
Widget
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/4359p46_th.gif)

Am having to work. . . dreary.

Hope the track is fast and the coast is clear!   8)

I been having a problem with the USPS for awhile now.. They send back certified mail saying invalid address and now I renewed my drivers license and it went back in the mail as invalid address..  My address is good and no one else seems to have problems finding it (DHL, FEDEX, etc.) only the USPO..  They say they will talk to the carrier but they seemed to have a new carrier every week, so thats not going to work.. I hate idiots..

Yeah, I've noticed you missing, Cuz...  {{{hugs}}}  but I never thought you stopped caring...  I know you do...  and thank you for posting a reply.

P.S.  Tim Miller is in my prayers ~ thanks for that front page alert, Red.

And hey ~ I'm outta here again....  Bye

Just posted in the front page area by a poster with the nickname Jehnifer:

Charles Croes responded to my question to clarify… (I do not know how to register to the forum -maybe someone could PLEASE email and tell me)

From: Fastphones Aruba
[Add to Address Book]
To: {{removed your email address}}
Subject: Re: Just wondering…
Date: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:36:55 PM [View Source]

Jennifer,
Sure I will - point by point and as honest as I can make it.
be well
charles

> WELL NATALEE DID NOT GET A PHONE CALL OF FROM ARUBA ………. (Charles
response) I don’t know that.
>
> SO WHY WAS CHARLES CROES INVITED THAT NIGHT BETH ARRIVED … (charles
response) It was thought that a cell phone was rented and we are the largest
such company on the island. Aside from that, once Beth spoke to me, it was
impossible to say no to a grieving mother.
>
> WHAT PHONE CALL DID HE SAY THEY LISTENED TOO ………. (charles response) A
young boy that is a friend of NH received a call that was recorded on an answer
machine. There was some thought that this call might have to do with NH.
Kindly do not ask me to elaborate beyond this since I have signed a NDA
agreement with two different police departments to not discuss this further.
That said, a little bit of detective work will give you the answers. It is
just that I cannot.

> SEEMS CHARLES CROES WAS THROWN INTO THE FRAY AS A SPY ……….. (Charles
response) Occasionally, an incipid remark is made. One that is as groundless
as it is thoughtless. This last one qualifies for that category.

Quoting {{removed your email address}}:

> People are wondering something. Can you explain and help clear things up?
> thanks.

Interesting that he said "A young boy that is a friend of NH received a call that was recorded on an answer machine." and not voice mail..  So this would mean what?  Does the boy have his own phone line at home and uses an answering machine or is it his parents and they use an answering machine..  I would think he wouldn't confused using an answering maching with voicemail and most cellphone users use voicemail..  I think by saying answering machine, that means an answering machine and not voice mail and therefore its has to be one of the students has their own phone line and uses an anserwing machine and not voice mail..

It also means that one of these rental phones made that call to this young kids house and how can that be are they programmed so they can make international calls..  This is too strange..

I think CC is useing answering machine in error.  He has to mean voice mail.

klaasend,  


I wonder if we will ever know all the facts in this case?   Big difference to me answering machine vs voice mail.. One would be recieved on your cell phone or your land line used a answering machine and not voice mail..  I would assume this guy being a vendor of cell phones would used voicemail vs answering machine but then again this is Aruba..

A Canadian rescue team made it to St. Bernard's Parrish long before the US would have gotten there, a Navy Ship in the Gulf followed the storm in, was waiting to help with water, doctors, hospital beds and who knows what else, but they were never called into action, and US dollars are being distributed in Lebanon to cover the destruction of property following war with Israel, not the US, but we can't get money to Katrina victims.   :shock:  No business on this planet could stay in business if it was run the way our government is.   :x

NDA?

klaasend writes: "I think CC is using answering machine in error. He has to mean voice mail."

Agreed.  I think while his English is good, it's not perfectly fluent.

Non-Disclosure Agreement.  An NDA is most typically used in a buisness setting, where early exposure to business concept, technology, etc is agreed to be kept "confidential" -- often w/ certain terms and conditions.  I think this strange terminology is weirder than his "answering machine/VM" discussion.

Who besides ALE would re: an "NDA".

Because this "piece of potential evidence" could have only been secured in the United States (after plane landed), I guess it was the FBI.

.

Hammer, I just listed to the Pod Cast again and the question was:

Could you please confirm if a telephone call was received the night Natalee disappeared and picked up by voice mail on Jug and Beth’s phone.  Was the call from Natalee?

Dave said "Beth would be the one to best answer that but in his conversation with her no Natalee did not make a telephone call from Aruba back to the United States that did not happen”.

Dishonesty seems to be such an integral part of their culture, even if a person's life might be at stake.  A grieving family doesn't matter, they simply lie and that's ok in their society.  Their aversion to the media and being honest with the family and public is described as law, whereas it seems it's more an established SOP that protects those in power, not the people of Aruba.  This prevents the kind of scrutiny that could bring the corrupt officials down.  Witnesses lie, the suspects lie, the police and prosecutor and spokespersons lie, and the Holloway-Twitty family and the US media went in like cowboys and exposed them.  Unfortunately, they haven't yet found the truth within the landfill of lies and the stories they keep on a-changin'.  (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k304/LilPuma04/cowboysmiley.gif)

It seems we can help everyone but our own citizens. It is shameful the way the people of the Gulf Coast have been treated. And what's with everyone saying they weren't " asked" to come in and help? Could no one see that the devastation was so complete that communictions were going to be almost impossible? What would have been wrong with just taking the initiative and doing something? In light of the aftermath, would anyone have been in trouble? I think they'd be hailed as heroic. That's the problem with Homeland Security.....just another buracracy that is disfunctional.

Charles Croes must not care too much about a grieving Mother, because he is in it up to his neck. He knows a lot, IMHO.

Here is what Dave said about another missing girl:

Dave said another girl went missing about a year before Natalee disappeared and that was confirmed by one of the police officers in a recent search that they had going on about a month month and a half ago they indicated another girl went missing on the island about a year ago and they weren’t able to spend a lot of time on that case and they are looking into it as well.

Maybe they should just go to CnC's for a beer,, she'll most likely 'turn up'  :roll:  :roll:  :evil:

Had been reading around today.  Ramm at BFN clarified the Deepak brought two dogs statement.  Made me think of the mattress with the dog's blood....eeeek.

Re: DEEPAK CAME WITH 2 DOGS ...
« Reply #23 on: Today at 07:10:22 AM »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Scorpio1938 on July 06, 2006, 07:58:02 PM
Deepak, he came "with two dogs," Is this slang, for two screwball guys, who would act like two oversexed monkeys, trying to have sex with a wet football.


it talked about actual dogs or better yet "honden" in dutch.

In dutch one would not say "honden" for people. Dutch youths have taken over the vocabulary of the US in this. It would have been "homies", "bro's" or if the canine link must be true "dawgs" but not "honden".

If Joran had been describing 2 humans with Deepak he would have most likely used "papiamentu slang", "US slang" or "Dutch slang" but dogs? No, dogs is not dutch slang for friends as far as I know/have researched on the net.

I never understood the Aruban insistence that they have very little crime and yet the police never have enough time to investigate the cases that do crop up.   :?

Ah Hammer - good thinking!

San - there was a girl that either Bondia or Arubagirl spoke of.  She was troubled and went missing along with her vehicle.  I'm wondering if that's the girl that Dave was referring to??  I can't find the conversation now because it's in the the archives that are not available now.

The only time I heard dawg was in street slang What's up Dawg as people/friend.  It was made popular by is Randy Jackson of American Idol.

Klaas, I remember reading something about a missing girl.  I was just pointing out what the police officer said about not being able to spend a lot of time looking for her.

I find it very strange that they haven't looked for this girl.

Whenever I hear Bondia/Arubagirl/NativeLingo's involvement I have my doubts.  But that is just how I feel.

I agree San, but I remember when they spoke about it it seemed like even they were saying nobody really looked for her.

How did he know when he met Beth that first night that she was "a grieving mother" and not just concerned over a missing daughter.

michelete2 - nice catch, good question!

Joran Calls One Of His Dogs By The Name Of Choller ..............

 :roll:

Excellent Response !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :roll:

I Noticed Charles Did'nt Answer The Changing Stories Part ..........

Charles Is The Enemy .............

 :roll:

Incipid GREAT Word I Will Use It Next Time PLaying Scrabble ............

Charles WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR STORY ?????????????????

 :roll:

I hear what you're saying Klaas.

Let's just say this girl had emotional problems.  The ALE could care less about looking for her.

Now let's take Joran's case.  He is a psycho commits murder and the ALE is falling over each other to help him.

POWER & MONEY makes things happen.

For all we know this girl could have been a victim just like Natalee.

Hi Monkeys,
I know this is completley off topic and you all may have already discussed it but I never have TV on in the daytime so did not know until News time about the crazy Guy who killed the Amish girls in PA. before killing himself.

It just breaks my heart to see the things that are happening in our world. Now his poor family has to deal with this hurt as well as that particular Amish community. It seems nowhere is safe.

Now as to CC. I do think he knows more.

I also think Aruba Girl was always pretty honest with us. I do not think she had anything to do with the Bondia postings.  I for one miss her and her posts. JMHO

Hi gang...
Just popping in for a bit while listening to Beth on the Dutch Inverview.

I like the way this guy is asking questions and then kinda lets Beth just talk. Not as much as Dana allows people to .. but a lot more than MSM...
JMO

I just finished listening to it also. Did Beth contact Joran ? Sounded like it didn't it ? Then, Joran is sighted in Aruba like the yellow dog he is. I know, quit insulting the yellow dogs.

In case it wasn't posted earlier today:

The Netherlands help Aruba with anti-corruption legislation.

ORANJESTAD – The government wants to have all the legislation involving international anti-corruption finished by mid-2007. Aruba has asked Holland for their assistance with the preparations. The result is that for a period of one year a Dutch lawyer will offer his support to the DWJZ (department of legislation and legal matters).

According to Urbano Lopez, the director of the DWJZ and the person in charge implementing the new legislation, it’s important to both Aruba and Holland to quickly implement the anti-corruption legislation. It involves international treaties, like the United Nations treaty regarding corruption. These have been signed by the Dutch government but can’t be ratified by Aruba until the necessary legislation has been put into place. “The international pressure to sign on to this legislation is exceptionally large. So it’s very important that Aruba makes the necessary preparations.”

The DWJZ will be reinforced by the Dutch legal specialist Ron de Bree. He’ll spend a year creating conceptual laws within the realm of anti-corruption matters. According to Lopez, Holland is not just sending their expert lawyer, but is also paying for all the costs. De Bree will also spend some time in the area of anti-terrorism laws. For the implementation of environmental laws and laws relating to international privacy rights, Lopez would also like to see a, “similar type of construction.”

Furthermore he says that he’s hoping Rudi Lampe, party leader of RED, will be somewhat reassured now that the government is working on legislation against corruption.

Lampe recently returned from Tanzania where parliament members from all over the world traded information about corruption within governments. According to Lampe many of them were quite surprised to learn Aruba did not yet have any legislation to address this issue. Upon his return to Aruba he said it is shameful that the government leaders are not more critical about their own actions.

DWJZ wants to have all the anti-corruption legislation concepts finished around the summer time. Thereafter the Raad van Advies (Advisory Council) will examine the concepts before sending them on to be handled in the Staten.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

She said she wanted to meet with him.. but he turned the offer
down :shock:
Yellow Dog... Like "Old Yellar" (at the end of the movie)

Hi Old Fart,

I hope you are enjoying this wonderful weather as much as I am. I am so not looking forward to the cold.

That was the saddest movie. Old Yellow.

I would have thought that they could simply cut/paste these Laws that are in place for the Netherlands.  After all  Aruba cases can be appealed to the Supreme court in the Netherlands
That and you would think the topic CORRUPTION would not need to be customized  that much.

Why does Aruba have all these strange Acronyms or does the spelling of the name make more since  :?

O/T
Hi SAM... lovin this "Indidan Summer"  but my sinus does not like it all :cry:

Maybe he went to Aruba for protection .He could not have the Dutch police eating out of his hand like in Aruba. And his many lawyers are in Aruba. Maybe he thought " On No... Bo "

UPDATE: Tim is out of his procedure and doing well. They found nothing wrong. It may just be stress. I think we can all agree he has a lot of that. All the comments and emails I have received have been forwarded to TES and Tim will be reading them tonight.

Thanks to all of you for wishing Tim Miller well and a speedy recovery.

Don't forget to leave your comments to time here >>>

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=396

I'v been listen to Dave on Dana  (yes i'm late  :oops: )
About 1hr 6min into the PodCast Dana asks Dave for 5 things for the Dutch to Do..

Thanks Red

Thanks RED for the Update
and could you delete my last post  :oops:  :oops:
TIA

So, is anyone counting how many times we have come back to Charles Croes and what he knows?  I wonder what he's been paid to shut up.......of course claiming an NDA conveniently enables him to plead the 5th and he knows it........hmmmmmmm

been lurking ... how is everyone?

Distraught that maybe Joran raped her maybe???

To finish the post I semi started.. then combined with one to Red about Tim


I was thinking about advertising  "Crown Wittiness"  but realized I do not Chit about it and hate Plea bargains   esp.. when the victim (or family of) has NO input to who gets it and terms

Hi Mrs.
Catching up and messin up posts :cry:  :oops:

HI EVERYONE!

do you get the feeling that Joran was the terror/big bully that everyone was afraid of?

and like Simian said, did Paulus get Joran out of trouble before??

Simian Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 8:57 pm
The Babylonians might release the Hindus.
The boy knows his father knows the way. He’s been inside the palace for many years. It has worked before. This time too much is at stake. This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.
The music man is singing. The Simian can’t understand the words.
A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue. Swollen and thick. This boy is lost

Windsor
Could it have been a coverup for someone else and now favors are called in?

Is Simian related to Shango...  :oops:

Thanks, Red!  Really appreciate you keeping us posted!  God bless Tim.  He is a special man!

I'm having problems getting the front page to load.  Red is not having problems.  I'm wondering if anyone else is having problems besides me.  Could everyone just try to go to the front page please?

TIA

www.scaredmonkeys.com

NEVERMIND - I'm OK now!!

No problem here.

Okay, who took Shango's name in vain??? :shock:

Thanks Buckeye.  I'm trying to figure out if it could be some kind of regional problem.  I'm not having problems with any other sites.

[quote="oldfart]Could it have been a coverup for someone else and now favors are called in?

Is Simian related to Shango...  :oops:[/quote]

you know (now, this is really profound  :lol: ), I just don't know

who knows in this case

I still go back to Joran's pounding on his chest to Beth's "I want my daughter, and I want her now,"  "What do you want me to do about it":  I still have to wonder if he didn't hand her off to someone"

if Shango was in Florida and Simian was in Aruba, who could have the connection?  I really think they were all in the know, if you go back and read everything, it's all coming to fruition.  I'd love to know who ShocktheMonkey was, too.

uh oh, hope it wasn't me, Lala's   :lol:

Klaasend
No problems get the FP to load

Hiya Monkeys

Windsor, I do believe there were favors called in to cover Joran's butt. Remember his so called Godfather was none other than Papito Commenencia.     8)

Hi Windsor.  Where are you headed on this tonight, BTW?

heading off to bed; so early, but GOOD NIGHT, EVERYONE!!  keep the faith; the truth will come out one day; everyone agree??

Thanks Oldfart - I was just able to load the front page.  Don't know why I was having problems before but I'm OK now.

oh, Lala's; sorry

just saying that I think Joran knew he could get away with almost anything; Paulus has gotten him out of trouble before, per Simian

it's almost like Paris Hilton style; DUI -- oh, did I do anything wrong?  you do wrong and you do wrong and don't realize it until you get smacked in the face by the law, but Joran felt he wouldn't get smacked in the face because Daddy would take care of anything, and still is

PAULUS -- grow a spine

KLAAS -- can you do a graphic of Paulus attempting to grow a spine? but Anita won't let him??

 :?

And why would his Godfather not help him?  Afterall, Joran was like his son?  And Paulus would have been close to him too...maybe closer than we would like to think...as in cover up close and do you a favor close....

Not sure how I'd begin that, lol  :lol:

a spineless snake

Steve Croes was in custody at that time on June 25th.  I think Steve saw something.  I also think he was trying to cover their alibi for his own financial enhancement. But then when he was arrested he sang like a canary.  Trouble is the cover-up was already in play and Steve Croe had lied once already.

it's like da familie

i'm in a bad mood tonight about all of this

how in the world could any decent human being do this to this family

True.  But who helps Paulus get Joran out of trouble?  Who knows all the Sloot secrets?  Whoever that is would certainly have "dirty hands".  ( Or should that be whomever?  Dang! I never can get that right.) :roll:

I think Steve Croes' job was to lie. IMO he was told by the pwers that be to become part of an alibi. I think Steve knows a lot more than anyone thinks he does.

I believe Joran has murdered before.

he was?  I thought it was van der Straaten (is that right spelling?)

I thought Joran's Godfather was Jan van der Straaten.

Old Stevie boy was singing alright...the song he was TOLD to sing.  He didn't just volunteer to help the Kalpoes on his own...the guy knew they needed an alibi and he provided it...albeit a wrong one.  Funny how he never got in any trouble for lying as a witness.  I thought witnesses couldn't lie...I know, I don't understand the system.

I'm ok too Klaas.  Hope it goes away.  Internet has been acting funny here the last couple of days, but not at scared monkeys!  Only when I'm trying to work!

:-)

Hi Lala's!  How are you?

don't forget what Shockthe Monkey said about (I'm assuming) is Steve Croes:


ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:
This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face

Hi Missin...hope you are well.


Yes, Papito is the Godfather....wow!  That does sound odd. :shock:

you know (now, this is really profound  :lol: ), I just don't know

who knows in this case

I still go back to Joran's pounding on his chest to Beth's "I want my daughter, and I want her now,"  "What do you want me to do about it":  I still have to wonder if he didn't hand her off to someone"
if Shango was in Florida and Simian was in Aruba, who could have the connection?  I really think they were all in the know, if you go back and read everything, it's all coming to fruition.  I'd love to know who ShocktheMonkey was, too.[/quote]
Windsor
A long time  ago I thought  maybe some of Aruba's elements (that make Joran seem like a Pom Pom girl) did come upon them on the beach and take Natalee but .....

So now, do you know who Shock was?   Think real hard...

but???

I agree Yap.  Like Jug said Charles could fit all the pieces to this puzzle together.

I'm fine!  Hope you are the same!  So is the Vessel the boat?

well, my guess is the "vessel" is either the boat that took Nat to her resting place or to another boat, off to Venezuela or Curacao behind those forbidden walls, as seen on TV

Steve Croes was friends with GVC. Didn't GVC have a white car, and wasn't he the fellow that allegedly had groped Natalee in CnC's on Friday night? Steve & GVC could have been following them and turned off at the HI.  Deepak mentions the white car. Could the white car have ducked in to the HI and then gotten back on the beach road & followed them to Malmok & Arashi?

Wasn't Joran supposedly calling GVC for months to "chat" prior to GVC's arrest in April? Whywould Joran be calling someone who he didn't know according to Tacopus.

 :lol:  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/henpecked1.jpg)

Is this something that will be on you class(s) exit  survey?
As a teacher was I

#1 Ok?
#2 More than Ok?
#3 Not up to Ok?

And we want the e-mail adds. of anyone that check #3 ....(only for Lala's book) :wink:  :lol:

my husband officially thinks I'm totally nuts ..

KLAAS --- I can't stop laughing!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol: Thought you'ld like that!

okay; I think I've wiped the laughing tears from eyes now --

someone please refresh me about someone who may have taken a picture of Deepak's car with another car behind it, and possibly Nat would have been in Deepak's car?  possibly in the northern area of the island??

Lala's -- where are you?  am I close??

I didn't see it and I forget who did.  There was a picture posted for a very short time on a website that was taken at night.  It showed Natalee getting into a backseat and Satish standing outside the car (I think).  I think the car was white.  It got deleted from the website soon after being posted.

oh, gheez, I'm talking to myself, and hubby went to bed thinking I'm nuts; what's a girl to do ...

I don't know where everyone went, lol  :lol:

close as in what?  Shock?  Who is Shock...who do you think it is...I don't mean a name...I don't have that...but who they are in general.  Are you gonna need another hint? :roll:

a white car?  hmm;  GVC has a white car?  interesting; although many white cars in Aruba; I had a white rental Jeep while there (remember my story about my flat tire??);

and remember a girl's story about GVC right after Natalee disappeared?  she asked him about Nat's disappearance; silence;  his cell phone rang and he bolted

who are THEY?  gheez, I didn't even know it was a THEY; I guess I'm slow on the uptake; another hint, please, pretty please   :shock:

Steve Croes is deeply involved in this in some way...don't you remember when Greta asked him about it?  He just sort of shrugged it off...not another MSM ever tried to question his again like she did and he just shrugged it off.  He knew he was safe...he was TOLD to provide that alibi.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I think Shock was like Shango.  Someone from Aruba now in the United States.  Someone that knows what goes on in Aruba.

I thought in the Dutch reinactment, that they said security footage from Diamonds Intl had Deepak's car with a white car behind it.  That's not the actual footage that was shown though(with the car following).

Klaas
Why does Paulus have such tiny feet?? :lol:

someone FROM Aruba? Oh, I thought it was someone from TES ...

cause he's really a size 7 ( you know what they say ... )

Not so tiny, size 10.5  :wink:

I thought Lala's was referring to poster ShocktheMonkey.

So what kind of job would Shock have that would make it necessary to be so cryptic?

yes, you're right; she's trying to help me figure out who Shockthe Monkey is; but I'm wrong, as usual ...  I thought it was someone really in the know from the US; whether it was media or TES

Good night monkeys... been lurking ...

keep the faith  - it moves mountains!

Hotel/Tourism/Cruiseline??

Windsor
What made you think it was someone in the US?  Just curious...see I may be wrong here too.  :wink:

KLAASEND...You blow me away with your incredible recall on everything!  I'm impressed!

I know of the woman who saw this picture...quite an intelligent, sharp, honest woman.  I believe her.

Amazing how many WHITE CARS are involved in this mystery.

Well I see Klaas thinks it is someone different...but I agree with you Windsor...read the post. I think it is someone in ALE...maybe one of the good guys that couldn't say anything without threat to life...just like Shango was at the time.

Lala's I think I made her think that by saying I thought Shock was like Shango.  Shango was posting from the US, or at least that was the IP country we were told by the former mods.

quote from Klaas:  I think Shock was like Shango. Someone from Aruba now in the United States. Someone that knows what goes on in Aruba.

well, that's why ... I'm a little dense tonight ... another hint ...

Two different things, SF
One was a picture ( photo ) taken that night. I never saw it, just heard of it. The part that sticks out is Satish looking like a deer caught in the headlites.
.
The other was from DInternational from a security camera on the street.
It was why the Dutch re enactment spoke of a white car. Time was clocked at 1:18 I believe.
.
.
.. Love the family photo of P and A.

Whoever he is/was, he spoke/wrote English well.  Who else had a writing style like his, or spoke like him?

I'd give anything to find that photo!

Shock was someone in ALE.  JMO

Florida! We had a long discussion on that white car once...please tell me about the person that saw the photo. Details. TIA

Sunfreak
Do you think it was someone else?

BUT  
After this length of time and number of "Different Recollections" by Joran and assuming  Holland has a witness protection program..
Nope..

I do NOT know what happened to Natalee and not more than 99.5% sure that more than one of the three Amigo's do BUT given their actions  (especially Joran's)
They need to be charged for whatever the Aruban / Dutch equivalent of Obstruction is~~  and spend some time jail and not as a "suspect" of a crime.
What little I know of our law.. and nothing of Aruban law..
Sometimes lessor crimes are "overlooked" to the greater crime and yet sometimes the "lessor laws" are enforced JUST TO MAKE A POINT.

JMO of course

so, let's say that the pic of this white car was near where Deepak took a leak -- yes, they all got out; and as Shango/Simian said -- he told the Kalpoes to take a hike; GVC, Joran and Nat went onto another party; when they got there, Joran "the lamb ran bleating and returned to the fold"

Lala's, I still need help -- do you have a name??

I saw the pic taken thru a window of a white car. IMO it was at CnC's not near the lighthouse area.

[/b]
Who took the photo  !

No, sorry I don't.  Who's party was it?  Lorenzo's? :shock:

Thinking outside the box here..what if Papito was trying to make it look like the Kalpoe's were guilty..setting them up?

On January 2, 2006 BETH shared entries from her personal journal that has been documented as related to the disappearance of NATALEE. BETH stated to “FoxNews” that on 6-12 an ARUBA police spokesperson, PAPITO (COMMENENCIA),  told NATALEE’s Loved Ones that the ARUBA police had found evidence of blood in Current Suspect D. KALPOE’s “Honda” car. The ARUBA police spokesperson said the ARUBA police were not 100% sure this substance was blood, but they do feel it was some sort of fluid, and the samples had been sent to HOLLAND for forensic tests. Nothing was heard about these samples sent to HOLLAND until 7-22, some 6 weeks later, when ARUBA police commissioner STRATEN told NATALEE’s Loved Ones family liaison that the fluid found in the car is “unknown at this time,” but STRATEN also said that DNA was found in Current Suspect D. KALPOE’s car. On 7-25 STRATEN still had no update on the “blood” tests. On 8-5 ARUBA prosecutor JANSSEN “said it was untrue. There is no material that can reveal DNA.”

Florida
What do you know about the photo? Please.

very well could have been at Lorenzo's; I wouldn't been the least bit surprised

could have been almost an initiation type thing with Joran; and then they told him to get lost "bleating"

No problem that it is 2 different pictures. I was confirming that DI had mentioned a white car following Deepak, along with Deepak saying the same thing.  I had posted earlier about Steve Croes possibly being with GVC that night and that they could have been the ones in the white car following Deepak.

An additional thought on that photo of Nat getting into a white car:  Wouldn't a silver car look whitish in the dark especially with a flash from the camera?

I'm a little confused here.....
 :?
Yapperz- Where did you see this pic posted?

My photobucky is not working at the moment. Please forgive me.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/natalee_holloway/index.html

here is the security camera thingie.

I'll tell ya -- I think Joran handed her off to someone; Beth has always said "they know what happened to her;" I wouldn't be surprised if it was nothing to do about nothing with Deepak's car, but I still don't get the Joran shoe thing

about a month ago, I proposed a "prove me wrong" idea;

I'd like to propose that Joran got into the white car with GVC; Nat was so drugged up by that time, she didn't know what was going on, possibly she fell and hit her head a bit, they drove to another party "the lions played", and Joran bleated; makes sense that GVC would have gone blank when that girl mentioned Natalee to him

prove me wrong (as in, where are Joran's shoes??)

I'm confused too.  Was the pic of Natalee getting into a white car, or was the pic taken thru the window of a white car capturing Natalee getting into Deepak's car?  Who would be taking pictures of Natalee outside of CnC's on that fateful night?

Florida...at the time I read at RWV, the MB forum & here. Not sure where it was posted. It showed Natalee at the right rear passenger door of the Kalpoe car. That is why I have always said she thought she was getting into a cab. I still have the feeling the Kalpoe car was in the taxi line at CnC's.

Maybe someone could work with this, I couldn't do a d. thing with it.
And I do have Adobe PhotoShop, but too much of a tyro.

yapperz1 - A toast to your avatar!

That's the Diamonds Internations security camera photo of Deepak's car.  I have it but you can't see anyone in the vehicle at all.  I've tried everything.

Ty Ms Marple...a hometown gal can only be proud of Atlanta's new baby panda.

Sunfreak, the pic was made thru a windshield of a white car. The Kalpoe car was in front of it.

isn't there another picture of Nat getting into a white car away from CnC?

but who would have taken a picture of Nat getting out of Deepak's car; more impartantly, why?

Hi
I'm not comfortable sharing info on an open forum.
Wish there were still PM's.

All I can recall is that she saw the photo & "poof" it was gone from theInternet....Probably a Webshot.

It was taken from the interior of a car (not necceassrily a white car) in front of Deepak's parked car.
Natalee is getting into the backseat (wearing denim skirt) & Satish is standing at the open passenger's door with a "deer in the headlights look"

Not sure if Joran is in the photo or not.

I have no clue who you think it was?  I have no clue as to who it was, except that he wrote English well, unlike some in Aruba whose 2nd or 3rd language is English.  Shock is more like Simian than Shango, IMO, in that he's not talking in riddles.  Although Shock is cryptic, ihe's more like Simian in his "plain" English.

All part of the "flick"  :wink:

So I wonder why Papito would tell the family about blood in the car when it wasn't there?  We all know it was chocolate, right? Was this a ploy on Paulus' behalf to aid in the cover up of a much more sinister happening?

Lala's - could you email me?  If you don't know my normal one email me at:  smklaasend@hotmail.com

Thanks!

I really do think that the involvement of Sander and Freddy is more than we know.
What if Satish wasn't at home at all ? Deepak waits up to hear from his brother, not Joran. There is no record other than what phone called what phone. We also don't have he content of the email to the friend Deepak was on line with.
Sander takes some pic on his phone. His phone is " stolen " at school on Monday. He does not report it, but rather, he calls Freddy ???? and tells him about it.
On Wednesday, Satish gives Freddy's camera back to Freddy.
Paulus get a lawyer for Freddy right away.
Satish asks about " the girl" how is she doing ? This is when he didn't go to school on the Monday.
Sander calls Joran Sunday noonish and asks Joran if he wants to go for a boat ride. Where do they put the boat in the water. ? Malmok ?

Thanks! That cleared up some of the confusion for me.

Natalee was getting into the car that WAS NOT Deepak's?, a car in front of Deepak's?

SCENE 1?

Can someone please clear this up for me too?

Joran's alleged GodFather;

Van der Straaten?  or Papito Commencia?

Thanks, Yapperz.

Yeah, I have a strange feeling about the "supposed" car that may have followed Deepak's car. Could this be the real reason Deepak stopped at Arashi Beach? Could this be where the photo was taken?

I always thought it was Jan.
It has been mentioned on the blogs that Paulus and Jan go way back even to NL.
Anita is friends with Mrs. Jan.

that's my guess

ok, again, prove me wrong

if Natalee went in the other car at Arashi Beach, what was the deal with Deepak saying he had to clean his car yet again because Joran almost fell in the water and brought sand into the car?  was that the night Nat disappeared or another night?  I never got that straight.

Okay...ShocktheMonkey posted HERE?
Why do you feel he/she is ALE?

man, i keep messing up the quotes tonight; hope you can read my post, Florida

SocktheMonkey posted on the front page of SM in June 2005.  The posts are still there.

Why do I get the feeling the teacher is sending me to the principal's office? :shock:  :lol:

It isn't unrealistic to think that one of Joran's or Satish's friends ( PIMPS )came by C & C's at closing to see if they had picked up a girl. Without any communication via telephone, because they had spoken earlier in the day about American girls.

I believe Papito. Here is a post by STom from a ways back:

STom
Joined: 13 Sep 2005

 Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:10 pm    Post subject:    


 
igsigs:

At the beginning of the investigation Papito Comemencia was very active as
police spokesperson. I understand he is the officer that Joran considers his
Godfather and uncle, not van der Straaten. He is -or at least was- very close
to the van der Sloots.

don't forget that Deepak supposedly stopped at a bar on their way out from CnC -- could be "hey, we have an American girl; the plan is on"

Florida, I do not believe the pic was taken at Arashi or any other beach. IMO  it was taken at Carlos n Charlie's in the taxi line.
I believe she thought she was getting a taxi ride back to HI.
Actually, I do not believe she was ever at a beach that night.

Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand
they lost to the lions
dirty hand knows
the elder knows
and so do the arawaks
the cowboys are far from the house of babylon
the maze shall remain dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders

Your pencils & book may get to meet her wooden rurler :shock:
(Hope it's not the type from Drafting Class .. They were a triangle of solid wood~~)

I don't know who Shock is.  Sorry if I implied that to anyone...maybe ALE or someone else.  Who knows. Why was I looking for the answer anyway?  I forget.  Senior moment.  :roll:

Hey Oldfart - I took drafting when I was in High School about a million years ago.  I took it because of all the cute guys in class  :wink:  :lol:

No, she just wants to tell LaLa's that she's her pet ! !  :lol:  :lol:

well, since we won't find out who Shock is, even though I have my theories, and it's not ALE, I think it's time I hit the hay

good night, Monkeys!!!

please keep up the good work

spread the word

Nite Windsor!

You know she's such a softy.  That's why they like her in school.  I had a teacher like that once...but I digress. :wink:

They never thought of making corruption illegal.   :?    :roll:   Once these laws are implemented, I'll be expecting another exodus to The Netherlands or somewhere.   I can't believe these people may be doing things that would be illegal in any other Western nation, but Aruba just sort of kinda never thought to make any laws against it.  Nuke 'em, Danno.

That is what I wanted to do... Until I found out I was better qualified for computers :shock: Did you have the triangle rulers ???

If I remember correctly they were called T-Squares?  I was pretty good in drafting and got to (I mean had to, lol) help alot of the guys..ha ha  :lol:

I remember doing Math on a wooden slide rule.

Gotta run. G'nite everyone.

After reading those statements and how evil Joran is and what kind of activities they engaged in with girls, I am starting to believe that there was a plans for an American girl on their last night in Aruba.
I used to think that it was all a chance encounter that had deadly consequences, but with Joran hanging out in the previous days with the MB kids, the lies he told about himself to those MB kids, the lack of Joran coming on to any of those girls, I think there might have been a plan before the Sunday.

Nite Sunfreak!

I remember doing Math on my fingers, and that was just last week.

Afterall, he's done it 20 times before and nothing bad happened!

T-square was a different tool
this was a 3 sided ruler about 1/2 in across a base  had at last 6 (up to 12)  different measurements scales on it and a groove down the middle of each side
Had one instructor that could have been put in jail..(based upon todays standards) that liked the point edge on back of hand type smack to get your Full Attention

Oldfart - I don't remember that type of ruler.  Might just be a memory lapse..lol  :lol:

Here are the players I'd like to see put under the microscope:

Michael Posner
Paul Brough
Lorenzo Van Rijn
Freddy Arambatzis
Koen Gottenbos
Sander Gottenbos

and of course

Joran
Paulus
Deepak
Satish

Nite San!

Great points, Kat_Gram, especially why Sander would call Freddy about the phone.  Freddy and Sander had to have been together somewhere when the phone disappeared.

I was just leaving and I saw your post and wanted to say ME TOO.  I would like to see Anita added to that list.

Sandy - that was photoshopped picture and was on a Dutch site.  I can find it but it's not real.

Well, it's my bedtime so I will say goodnight and do the Shango Tango another night...carry on monkeys.  Hugs to Nemo.  Where is Angie?  I saw her hugging Nemo for me the other night and I have missed None.  Where is CP 405 anyway?  She promised me an email... :roll:

Michael Posner/Paul Brough......Why leave Aruba suddenly?
Lorenzo Van Rijn..........................What goes on at that house?
Freddy Arambatzis........................Was he the "ride" Joran got from the Marriott? Deepak:"Freddy needs to tell the truth"
Koen Gottenbos.......................Not sure, why does he look "alcohol bloated" lately?

IMO: If we could get one story straight...it will all come together.

Gotta go Monkeys
But I might know someone that want want to make some  non-monetary bets.

Arban laws on CORRUPTION will NOT be retroactive And it will take to the the next elections to put in place

Unless the Aruban people  wake up (Baaa, Baaa) ~  find a spine~ take to the street and media to demand it .

JMO

I went back and added Sander.  You're right..Anita too!

I remember them well, OF.  Maybe it's a midwestern thing - we're from the same state.

Nite Oldfart and Lala's - see you guys tomorrow afternoon.  Class tomorrow you know.  Morning and subbing for the evening class as well.

Hi Monkeys.  As long as we are speculating, think about this.  

1.  The FBI told Dave and Beth that there was sufficient quantity of blood found in Deepak's car to make them believe Natalee was most likely deceased.
2.  The ALE and Arubans told us they would send the samples from the car to the Netherlands for testing.
3.  We were told Karen Janssen was taking the samples to Netherlands herself.
4.  We were told by the ALE and Janssen that the testing showed chocolate and cleaning fluid in the car and no blood.  

We have no evidence or report that we've seen from a lab anywhere that says that lab tested samples from Deepak's car.  We have not seen a lab report that stated that such samples were chocolate and cleaning fluid.  In conclusion, I doubt that Janssen ever delivered car samples to a lab in Netherlands for testing.  I doubt that any tests were performed on the car samples by a lab in the Netherlands.  I have distrusted this particular "piece of evidence" ever since it was uttered by Ms. Janssen herself.  

We need to just sit tight and wait for the Dutch to complete their investigation.  Much of what we thought we knew is suspect, coming from the ALE and Aruban Prosecutor's office.  I think the Dutch will come up with very different results.

If we heard the truth, would we know it was the truth?  So many stories, so many lies, and the truth is hidden within.  And sometimes my head starts to hurt and I have to go read e-mail jokes.

Me too, LilPuma.  I'm going to go grade more papers and play a few games.

Ants, sand, much talk of cleaning car, but no mention of chocolate being spilled or anything similar, no mention of cleaning fluid.   Ants.  Sand.  Highly suspicious.

LilPuma
midwestern thing
Nope .. will have to find a pic tommorow to jog memories
 :shock:  Same state  :shock:  
So is SAM..
Soopy and LDStl.. is not that far from me in MO. ..  and are you N / S or  E / W  or central monkey...
 :?

Nite monkeys.

Hey AZ
My friends in Ft Hills keep wanting me to come out to your neck of the woods.

When would be a good time (weather / open market wise) ??

Chicago.

Now that is a BIG Area  (to me)  NE 1/8 of the state  :lol:
Daughter lives there (within a mile or so  of Lake, Zoo etc.) but when I'm the same distance from the Ohara(sp) she can never make it out  to the hotel :shock:  :lol:

LilPuma
If you ever  happen to be in the Captl. city area please consider getting in touch...
OldF

Well, the rulers might look different, but I vividly recall the pain from a regular ruler on my hand and body, from my first grade teacher. Times have changed for sure, that woman should have been arrested for what she did.

Ants and sand and cleaning fluid. Hmmm, do you think there were really ants? Were ants an excuse for cleaning out the car?

G'nite Monkeys

For the late night crew...  Just a reminder of Erica Harveys site
 http://www.erickaharvey.com/

Or if you want to bypass the main site (Do NOT Do it)  
have Media playrer going and do an  Open / URL address Paste this address http://www.erickaharvey.com/playlist.wpl

BTW  the Lyric to Natalee are



G'nite ...
SeeeeYaaaByeee

OOOOx


HOPE I did not break any Internet Rules with this post

g night

This is for any Refugees who read here:
Your forum has a long discussion about Joran and his former girlfriend Rika and this interesting poll:

How old were Joran and Rika when they were an "item"?

Joran 14 and Rika 12      74%  [ 44 ]
Joran 17 and Rika 12      25%  [ 15 ]
 
Total Votes : 59

 :lol:   74% of you are wrong.  :lol:

According to Val's former girlfriend Natalie from information on her website - Joran and Rika were an "item"  in early 2005 .  All of the above were students at the International School at that time. Rika was born May 28, (1992)  ( from information on her website) making her 12 at the time.  Notice that her 13th birthday would have been celebrated on the day before Natalee met Joran at the casino and at C&C's.  

From Natalie's website:

Feb 24, 2005
prty boring since valentijn wasnt ther...i kinna followed rika round..even watched joran ((valentijn's bro..rika's bf...senior..long story 4 anotha entry))

March 3, 2005
n rika sat under da table tlkin 2 joran on da fone cuz he had work so he didnt come 2 skewl...

March 2005
wednesday-woke up..got on da bus..rika didnt come :(..got 2 skewl..had science..english...math..lunch ((joran wasnt ther eitha))
 
thursday-woke up..got on da bus..rika wasnt ther again

friday-friday was kool!!!..woke up..got on da bus...rika was back!! :) turns out wed she had been sick..n thurs her mom made her stay home cuz her mom found out bout her n joran : <snipped>( rika was rly sad...lyke every1 was tellin her 2 break up w/ joran..n i agree...spanish rika n i kinna got in trouble cuz she was sad so she went in da bathroom so i went 2 go comfort her..

.
Wow, Leslie!  That pretty well nails that down.  And here I thought it was just something made up to make Joran look like an absolute sleaze, a 17 year old having a relationship with a 12 year old is pretty disgusting if you ask me.

But I remember when you sent that to me a long time ago and I thought it was talking about Rika's little sister being 12, not Rika herself.  Good grief!

But if you read that entire thread discussing this at the RU site, you saw some defending adults having sex with 12 year olds saying the 12 year old made the "choice" and such as that so I am sure that even though they said they would NOT defend a 17 year old having a relationship with a 12 year old, now that it turns out to be a fact that Joran did this, they will defend him and say this is normal.

It isn't.  Joran is a (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thpervert.gif).  I guess the next closest thing to drugged unconscious would be a 12 year old.  And he knows her name, too, for I believe her father is the manager of one of the big hotels.  Why did he even lie about that?

Thank you for clearing this up beyond any doubt.  I think this should be printed and sent to somebody.  Maybe Dave Holloway.  Or the Dutch investigative team.  Very revealing as to Joran's twisted psyche.

.

Remember them? Heck I've got the drafting table and left handed drafting machine in my basement with all those rules, templates and lead holders that I used in my drafting career. I bought all that stuff when the Colemand Company converted over to those new power tilting tables with new style drafting machines. Spent several years sweating over that board.

the ONLY thing they protest in Aruba is mothers of missing children.  What a dispicable society.

I could be wrong but I think there were samples that were sent to the FBI that came back as chocolate and/or cleaning fluid.  Of course those samples were sent to them and not collected by them.

The more we hear about Joran, the harder it becomes to understand why anyone would stick up for this lump of dung.  This criminal needs to be behind bars.  This is very disturbing about the 12 year old, this is probably another life this punk has ruined.  I hope this girl is ok and turns out "normal".  Not that anyone on that island is normal.

The picture that I saw last summer was taken of Natalee getting into Deepak's car -- I believe Satish was holding the door open for her. You see long blond hair and a jean's skirt -- you don't see a face -- her head was already inside the car, if that makes any sense.

It could have been taken from a car behind Deepak's -- and no, I did not see if the car was white or not.

It appeared to be a 'freeze frame' from perhaps a video.

The picture was real (in terms of the fact that I'm not making it up that I saw it -- as did others that I have read comments -- but I don't know if it was 'authentic' or photoshopped.

The picture did not last on the internet very long.

Back then (within a month of her disappearance) -- SM was the only site I knew of and the only site I visited (hmmm -- almost lived on the site last summer lol). So if it wasn't a post at SM forum or front page -- it was a link at SM forum or front page that I followed.

So...one of the many things I've wondered about -- did Deepak go around the block a few times for the first few minutes to give this other 'car' time to get to whatever they were going to meet up?

Morning monkeys. Have a great day:-)

joran sucks  8)

Good morning.

Have I missed anything?

Morning Monkeys....

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Note to the Refugees and anyone else who has their mindset:  Try doing (more) research before you post what you want everyone to believe are facts.   Maybe if you spent less time in the Boat Drink Room and more time looking for the truth, you might be smarter.    :roll:
By the way, if you had been following the story over the past year, you would have known that Rika had 14th birthday greetings from Val van der Sloot and Karen Martina just before May 28, 2006.  I know on her website she states she is 16 but that is untrue and Val is not from Madagascar either.     :o
Remember, Joran himself said that Rika was 12 when he was involved with her so remember that and the  names of the Refugees posters who said they were positive they knew the truth and convinced others to believe a lie.

The current misinformation campaign at Refugees Unleashed has produced these results:

How old were Joran and Rika when they were an "item"?

14 and 12   -    77%  [ 52 ]
17 and 12   -    22%  [ 15 ]
  :D  Now 77% of you are wrong :lol:
Total Votes : 67

refugees   :roll:


they are lame  8)

I agree :lol:

yeaaaaaaaaaaa

frankly, i think everyone involved in this SUCKS


i think if people try to defend JORAN and his countless lies they have developed a VIRUS..... ------------>JORANITIS


it is a bad virus that makes me want to PUKE  :twisted:

They are like the scarecrow....

"if they only had a brain".....would they use it?

yes, perhaps or maybe even like the EVIL WITCHES from the WEST  :twisted:

well we all know they're like the tin man... no heart....

all GUTLESS, no courage
kind of like the LION


doesnt take any brains, guts or heart to defend PREDATORS like JORAN

 8)  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

i dont beleive in KARMA

i prefer REVENGE

Been reading back..not sure when I'll catch up....good morning, all.

Oldfart, did a little searching for 3 sided rulers...found this pic..not sure it helps:

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/2NJSons_Mom/Rulers.jpg)

 

it's true!!!  Can any of you imagine your 12 year-old daughter "dating" a 17 year-old guy?

Have a good day monkeys...

keep the faith!  BBL...

The best revenge would have been Justice for Natalee.  I would have loved to see the ALE hauling Joran's ass off to jail with his mother and father watching.  I don't see that happening anymore.  So I will agree with robots that I opt for a different kind of revenge.

It makes me sick that people are even entertaining the thought of  negotiating some kind of deal with Deepak to do an interview.  He will come to this interview spew all his lies and also make money for it.  It is just unbelievable.  I hope someone shoots him before he gets the opportunity.

No I can't imagine something like that.  Something like that would have never happened with my daughter.  Hanging out with 17 year olds when she is 12 I don't think so.  This guy is very sick in the head.  A senior in high school dating at 6th grader.

maybe Karma really happens .....i dont know

i dont have the patience for it....seems to take too long  8)

Beth and Dave have been suffering and will for the rest of their lives

when some jackasses say that k2 and joran have suffered too...

there is NO comparison what so ever

as time continues, there will be some people that defended joran and k2 that will see things a little more clearly,

this is simple as pie

people TELL LIES when they are covering up something...

being skeeeeeeeeered aint good enough JORAN

im still 100 percent confident this case will be solved

paulus and anita were once again RIGHT on TOP off things

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

DITTO.
Leslie---ty for the post re joran and the 12 year old.
slime

New Front Page Post:

The Hotel occupancy rates for Curacao Highest Level in Years, Not so for Aruba … We wonder why?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/10/03/the-hotel-occupancy-rates-for-curacao-highest-level-in-years-not-so-for-aruba-we-wonder-why/

Since Natalee Holloway went missing and the subsequent disaster of what was called an investigation into her disappearance, Aruba has suffered disastrous tourism numbers. While the rest of the Caribbean is up, Aruba finds itself mired in its own mess. One might say that the rest of the Caribbean may be benefiting from Aruba’s loss. So why is it a sister Island like Curacao has success and Aruba does not? I do not think it takes a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

Good morning!  Is this true that the Kalpoe's will be making money on this too..  How are these pimps suffering?  Deepak was using his arrest pictures on his dating profile to attract whatever.. Joran is proud of what he has done and seems to enjoy teasing those that care about Natalee's family.. I'm not surprised about Joran dating a 6th grader and for those that support that type of relationship..Most of us live above the dark part of society but it seems this case has brought us face to face with stuff that most of us don't want in our lives..  I would assume that ((nambla)) {{edited by Red}} would be welcomed in Aruba and most likely has a big percentage of members from there.. I just hope that Aruba will disappear and there will be one less cess pool..  This really makes me mad when I think those responsible for Natalee's death are going to make one (1) penny from it.. I'm just shocked that no one on that island has grab that kid (Joran) for messing around with their daughter or son..  Just my thoughts, all have a good day..

td

I know you meant nothing by it, but please no direct links to such a hideous web site as that ... its a kin to links to porn ... Thanks Red

Klaas - you can delete this entire post if you feel it is not pertinent, but I have to summerize the RU controversy:

Refugees Unleashed topic:

How old were Joran and Rika?

iquitos Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:18 pm
...he also described his (Joran) nonsexual relationship with one Rika. his detractors ran with the story that Joran was 17 when Rika was 12 and his girlfriend. it turns out that this may not have been the the case.

iquitos Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:04 pm    
Rika is 16.  
now two of the Joran detractors i referred to have identified themselves. anybody else?  
(posters JD and Knot)

prolific Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:08 pm  
Joran was 14, Rika was 12. Rika is now 16. End of story.

Gabrielle Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:13 pm
END OF STORY

WangChung Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:17 pm
Given that FGL, a poster with far more credibility and resources than you will ever hope to have, has already laid this rumor to rest, I wonder what the true motivation behind your shit-stirring is? Is it that you can't stand being wrong? Did today's Shooting in PA, and the subsequent postings, limit your avenues with which to be argumentative? Despite the occasional outward appearances to the contrary, you are not a stupid woman, so why the transparent obtuseness? Since the provenance of the statements you quote is questionable, and Joran IS a free man, I wonder if you truly believe Joran was 17 and Rika was 12?

Gabrielle Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:08 pm
just shut up.
Joran was 14 and the girl was 12.
there's your proof.
stick it where the sun don't shine.

WangChung Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 pm
This issue was actually put to bed last night by FGL who provided a definitive answer to the original question.  

iquitos Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:47 pm    
i think most of the participants in this poll are making an informed choice. it is not like they are new to the subject.

Fu-Gee-La Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:58 pm
Talk to the farkin' hand Huff man. THEY WERE NOT DATING! I don't care if you think he was 17 and she 12 or not! they kissed for chrissakes!!!
JD Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:44 am
Maybe no one really cares. But if he's 17 this thread is a good example of the lengths people will go to for the sake of misinformation -- and why?

Fu-Gee-La Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
"misinfromation" really?  
--
Leslie adds: THE NEXT 2 POSTS ARE IN RESPONSE TO WHAT I POSTED EARLIER:
--
acala Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 am
This is appalling. If some other site had the poor taste to post this statement for the sole purpose of causing harm and embarassment to JVDS, that is no reason for the names and intimate details into the lives of innocent bystanders to be posted here. At the very least, the names of these young women should be deleted.  

Also_Dutch Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:22 am
According to a former friend of a friend who has a website....
No links given to that particular website, how credable is the poster on SM...I consider this information bogus!

------

MY EVIDENCE:
Taken from a police statement of Joran van der Sloot's:

To your question whether I had a relationship with a girl name "Rika", I answer you the following. Rika was my girlfriend but we did not have a sexual relationship with each other. We may have done some french kissing but I did not have sexual relations with her because she is twelve (12) years old. Rika's parents found out about our relationship and that is why we stopped the relationship. I do not know Rika's last name.
 --
Natalie van Hamburg's (sp) website: Natalie was Val van der Sloot's girlfriend at the time and a student at the International School.  She makes many references to Joran and Rika at the beginning of 2005.

http://bloomsgurl2292.livejournal.com/
--

Sure will.  As for your daughter and O'Hare, it's a 20 minute drive from the downtown/near north area if there's little traffic.  It can be a 75 minute drive during the week when traffic is heavy  :(   I always say that some people call it the Kennedy expressway, I call it free parking.  There is an el/subway train that goes there though.  I was in a chat room a while back with some people who knew where I lived and one of them said they were packing to move back to their hometown in central Illinois.  I said "I didn't know there WAS a town in central Illinois."   :lol:  She snapped back that us Chicagoans think that anything south of I-80 is Kentucky!   :wink: I told her that I knew about Carbondale and Springfield and figured they built Springfield because they didn't want the governor here.   :)   Can't remember her response, but the whole exchange was pretty funny.  
Oh, sorry for the OT.

Leslie-

I suspect they don't realize or stop to even think, that you are all over your data on this one - but then do they ever truly research and put the disparate facts together over there?  :roll:

It amazes me to read this, WangChung, maker of photos so heinous not just against a mother of a missing daughter but including the daughter's images as well  -- and he is outraged regarding Rika?

Logic tells me the outrage should rest in Joran even soliciting the attention of any 12 year old female. Wonder if Wang has a daughter? Wonder if he's willing to serve her up to the likes of Joran? Wonder if he lives vicariously through the sporter's exploits in his twisted mind?

Rant finished.

Has it been reported yet which publisher is in discussion with Deepak? I'd like to know, I do read lots and purchase books, I want to be sure to boycott that publisher if possible.

Thinking back to senior year in high school, I can't imagine any of those guys wanting a "romantic" type of relationship with an 8th grader.  That is perverted.   Jeez, that and cruising bars and casinos for one-nighters with tourists at the age of 17?  Something's wrong with that, and yet Aruba seems to think it's the tourists that are the problem.   :roll:   Well, Aruba, we're doing our best to keep all those problematic "easy" American women away from your delicious young perverted boys.   :shock:

Very well said LilPuma

maybe wang is PAULUS  :twisted:

Exactly.  Why weren't they questioning their son's involvement with a 12 year old?  Anita tells us about his little girlfriends spending the night, describes Natalee's underwear.  Now Holland, like Scandanavian countries, might be more open about this stuff, but 12 years old is a CHILD for goodness sake.

Like Joran, I can't imagine what the general public would want to know about these guys other than what happened to Natalee?.  Unless they're going to relate their attitudes towards and exploits with tourists - and that would be trash reading at it's ultimate level - what's there to tell?

That's the key.  It's like Skeeters tape was sent to Aruba, not directly to NFI.  As for any other possible evidence, we don't know if it actually was sent to Holland, to whom it was sent or what the official report said.  I find it interesting that there were a few select pieces of evidence that ALE chose to give the FBI, while apparently keeping them pretty much out of the loop on most of it.  IMHO, they only gave the FBI things they KNEW would come up benign because they wanted the FBI to say "nope, nothing incriminating there."  Does that whole island think Americans are stupid?

Nonesuche:  This isn't the first time I have seen misinformation labeled as fact posted on the dark side, but I this time the evidence is too easily obtained to let their lie go unchallenged.  The fact that they will go to absurd lengths to misrepresent the truth, proves their entire agenda is based on the biggest lie - that Joran is innocent and has been persecuted by the family of Natalee who are quilty of every crime and sin imaginable.  RU's resorts to insulting any poster who does not abide by the rules of believing every "fact" posted and then when confronted with the proof of their errors, calls the information "bogus" or pretends to be shocked and appalled by someone (me  :lol:  )  providing a rebuttal with information readily available to anyone on the internet.  Plus, I posted the information in the SM forum and not over there.

Just to prove how RU doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good discussion here are the latest results of their poll:

How old were Joran and Rika when they were an "item"?

14 and 12   -    79%  [ 57 ]
17 and 12   -    20%  [ 15 ]
 
Total Votes : 72
     
 :lol:  79% of those morons believe a proven lie to be true  :roll:

Thanks for searching, but none of these is the one OF was talking about.  The one he mentions isn't flat, it triangle shaped.  /_\

Wishing the monkeys a great day!  :D
Lil Puma, I'm not sure if you are an old monkey with a new name or just our new lil puma...but I love your waving avatar.  8)

(I was thinking uma puma! lol)

{{{Big October Hugs for All}}}

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/ruler.jpg)

I know they hurt!!!!!

Leslie-

I was going to respond to your last post, but if I do for I so support your efforts, I'll surely cause Red to edit me for my comments about RU  :lol:

So here-here Leslie (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/motocanaglia_bravo.gif)

You are right hotshot!  That thing will crack you upside the head!!!! :lol:

I got one of those!  I call it a scale ruler.

:lol: I never imagined sweet Kimmy cracking anyone up beside the head  :shock:

Hey 2N - (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/bigkisses.gif)

I call it a weapon!  Glad I only remember the flat one being used on the palm of the hand.  :roll:  :wink:

Rika's father, a manager of one of the hotels.

That means he pretty much looks the other way when sick stuff like this happens on his property, and welcomes WHATEVER wants to spend its $$$ at his place. No doubt ADULTS molest 12-year-olds at his hotels.

But when it comes to HIS little girl... then that's a different story, huh? Then it's time to put his foot down. But he could care less about OTHER people's children. Hypocrite.

Oh - I do it to myself!!! :shock:  :lol:

Leslie,
I would have to say that poll pretty well says it all and is a good and accurate commentary on the truthfulness and integirty of that site.  They are just plain (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/busted-1.gif).  Sometimes I wonder what they are (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/2cshxyx_th.gif).

But as for their sudden concern for innocent bystanders, please!  (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/314xctd_th.gif)  I have seen entire threads devoted to people only because they happen to live in MB.  They posted not only street addresses (oh yes, by description as down so many houses from so-in-so) as well as the income of the parents of MB kids with whom there is no connection whatsoever with this disappearance.  Don't forget their famous "going after the Fab 7" expose, either.  

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/YouRock.gif)

Hi, my Tupelo Honey!

Yes, he does!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/21Bstb9a.gif)

I have come to think he is seriously impaired, not just garden variety warped but the real deal nutcase.

And here is another photo of Dompig for Mrs. Red.  This is where he should be for enabling the "delicious sporter"!  Good Grief, no wonder that kid is warped and wacko with parents like that and a brain fried too early with alcohol!
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thththpotatoeman.png)

.

.
I can't find the info on Deepak doing a show or a book deal??  
Will someone bring me up to date on that?  Having to work and only doing drive by but will keep checking in.

.

Do we know if Freddy was employed at the Marriott bar on May 30? And if so what time he got off work?  

Freddy is a logical person to have supplied the vehicle to help Joran move the body from the beach.  The problem tho is that there is apparently no record of a communication between Joran and Freddy that morning.  Freddy lived close enough that Joran could have just walked to Freddy's house and knocked on his window... but then why the hour of computer activity first, why not go to Freddy's as soon as he arrived home?  Unless they met at the Marriott  and disposed of the body before Joran logged on at 3:30.  Or, he knew that Freddy would not be returning home from work until after 4:30 and was killing time.

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k304/LilPuma04/3druler.jpg)

I was never smacked with one.  Where's that angel smiley?  

Mrsn2, I'm the new monkey, and Blah offered up the ever-so-cute avatar.

Anna,

Dave said it on Dana's show the other night that he was trying to negotiate a deal with a talk show host or something like that.  I will have to listen to the PodCast again.

Time to commute.  

Hope to catch y'all later.

Heh, Heh, just noticed I am boycotting Tacopina, everytime I see he face showup on a news channel show, I switch channels.

real deal nutcase, YES
that sums it up  8)

i went to a worksite a couple hours ago

saw a septic tank cover

about 2 feet in diameter, cement with two handles

easily lifted by one person, well one person with a little bit of muscle power  


the hole could easily fit a body in.


i still say ABANDONED septic tank...

could be the place where they hid Natalee

one person could do it in 5 minutes or less


 :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Deepak trying to negotiate a deal with talk show or something HMMMMMMMM   Who arrange for Joran and his little show?? Who co-wrote a book with dave?? who say there is a deep throat that is coming forward ??   bingo Larry Garrison

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/two_N/BlowKissDaisy22398070523876y.gif)

Deepak trying to negotiate a deal with talk show or something HMMMMMMMM   Who arrange for Joran and his little show?? Who co-wrote a book with dave?? who say there is a deep throat that is coming forward ??   bingo Larry Garrison[/quote]

And Dave knows Larry Garrison well.  . . . .

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/5.gif)

Could some one direct me to the transcript from Dana's show with Dave?  I can not hear on my computer and I read some where that there was a transcript.  Thanks in advance!

And Dave knows Larry Garrison well.  . . . .

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/5.gif)[/quote]


Strange huh ????

Strange huh ????[/quote]


Hmmmm is right - and alot of coincedences.  I certainly feel that Deepak is money hungry - maybe he is after a reward and/or money for an interview - Especially since the new dutch team is supposed to take a look at the case.... Maybe he feels it is now or never if he will profit.... Hmmmm

Hmmmm is right - and alot of coincedences.  I certainly feel that Deepak is money hungry - maybe he is after a reward and/or money for an interview - Especially since the new dutch team is supposed to take a look at the case.... Maybe he feels it is now or never if he will profit.... Hmmmm[/quote]

But he also sits back and watches Joran in the lime light prabably knowing that joran raped and killed her

Right here Jennifer  :wink:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=395

Also Larry and met Deepak and talked to him before..

welcome back Klaas, how was school ?

It was good!  Need to SUB for another class tonight as well  :wink:

YAY makes for great reward for yourself teaching people

Actually, they are all adults but it's still rewarding!

Edited to add - oops, read your message wrong.  Though you said teaching young people,lol  :lol:

I am sure it is.. My step mom is a 30 year retired teacher the last 8 teaching special education students.. she just adored her job and working with the children

Here Anna this is what was transcribed by Heli at RU:

Dana:

Stephanie Good and Larry Garrison have gone above and beyond to help you with this cause and we can only do what we can do, and hopefully there will be that one tip that will benefit you.

Rumours that the Kalpoe's are filing suit to clear their names. That's one of those goofy things.

Dave:

I haven't heard anything about filing suit against Aruba. I know there's talk about a talk show host being involved in some negotiations with Deepak, we'll have to wait and see. [/list]

I'll try again... was Freddy employed at Champion's/Marriot on 5/30?

What do you think San??? kinda strange larry comes out says there is a deep throat, then you hear Deepak may be talking to someone.. What do you make of all that.. What are the chances Deepak = Deep throat

No Shizaru, we don't know.  We know he was there November 2005 but no proof of him working there in May.

But he also sits back and watches Joran in the lime light prabably knowing that joran raped and killed her[/quote]

Oh - he's a POS for sure.  Maybe now he realizes how self serving the VDS's are.  I just feel like all the attention JOran is getting is eating him alive.   The VDS's sure did "butter" him up - offering the lawyers etc., saying lets all stick to the story, the meetings, etc. - All this for someone who has only known their son for a few months???

Oh - he's a POS for sure.  Maybe now he realizes how self serving the VDS's are.  I just feel like all the attention JOran is getting is eating him alive.   The VDS's sure did "butter" him up - offering the lawyers etc., saying lets all stick to the story, the meetings, etc. - All this for someone who has only known their son for a few months???[/quote]

Well we know Deepak is a money grubbin Ho... He doesnt have a pot to piss in and he see's teh high life Joran is living.. quite sure he is jealous

If it is Deepak someone has given him what he wants which is $$$.  Larry said Deepak was greedy.  Everyone has an asking price and I think Deepak's could have been met.

Now ask me if I will believe what Deepak is going to say.  I would say no.  If it doesn't lead to the arrest of Joran Van der Sloot I don't want to hear what he has to say because he will be lying.  We have watched Joran tell his lies in his interviews and it didn't result in anything.

Thanks, any idea if his statement is in the pipeline?

No Shizaru, but I'll ask.

I really hate to see any of these pimps make a penny off of Natalee's crime.. If Deepak does do an interview I hope its with someone like Nancy Grace and not someone like Greta..  So the case comes down to paying the suspects to tell what they didn't do but what the other did and its up to us to write the ending on who you want to believe the most.  I'm not sure I would make a deal with the devil just in a hope that they might tell you a partial truth and not the whole truth..  I'm glad its not my call..

Posted by Jehnifer on the front page:

Re; Holloway Case:

I emailed Larry Garrison just now asking if it was Deepak who was talking, and referenced the rumor that he was in negotiations with someone… Larry’s response:

From: GPINews@aol.com
[Add to Address Book]
To: ((edit))
Subject: Re: Holloway information
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:53:57 PM [View Source]

In negotiations my foot. He has been peddling a book like Joran. No… the deep throat is pointing his finger at the same suspects.

Larry

Thanks for posting this Klaas.

It makes me sick when I read this.  This is going to give a lot of other nuts who commit murder and want to tell their story for money.  I know others have done it before but these two are flaunting the fact that they beat the murder rap and are now going to make money on it.  They don't have one bit of remorse for what they did.  JMO.

Hmmmmmm

Very good catch Kimmy.  Who has been in the U.S.?  Deepak, Freddy & Koen.  I don't believe it is someone in Aruba at the moment because they would be afraid for their life.  The ALE knows all the players involved and they would be monitored as soon as information about the Deep Throat leaked out.  They can't monitor squat if they are here in the U.S. or some other country.  JMO.

Anna: Thank you for giving me a reason to delve a little deeper into a theory we discussed months ago.   We knew what Rika's full name is and that she shares a surname with a man who was/is the General Manager of a well known  Aruban Hotel.  Plus, she was a student at an expensive school suggesting that her family has some money. We wondered if Rika was the daughter of this man.

I went back to the link I posted earlier today and and found this entry which seems to confirm our idea:

ValentijnsLover4eva (bloomsgurl2292) wrote,
@ 2005-02-21 18:44:00
Current mood:  tired
CaRnIvaL!
hey!! well ther was anotha fun weekend..im not sure exactly which it was but it was a sat n sun!! here:
sat-went 2 see white noise w/ rika liv n VALENTIJN it was a freakkii movie but i got 2 b w/ valentijn :) well rika left n me n liv n valentijn had pizza @ sabarros n wlked round..then my dad picked us up n ran by valentijn's house 2 get "the terminal" then we went back 2 liv's house n watched it...<snipped>  well then my dad picked me up n ran me by the house 2 get dressed 4 CARNIVAL n took me 2 rika's 2 meet her n veru n alex 2 go 2 renesannce 4 CARNIVAL of course..we hung round da hotel 4 a bit..had lunch..then wlked up n down da streets n met up w/ jimmy alex greg daniel valentijn n chichi soon afta was hemant i think..well soon the parade came n we danced n laughed n joked round 4 da LONGEST time!!! well then da parade was ova...we thru MARIOTT t-shirts n saw a big fite!! hhehehe..well we wlked back 2 da hotel n met up w/ rika's dad n he took me n veru 2 my house n alex home n hemant home n rika home 2...
this weekend--
friday was olivia's bday!! yay!! she's 13..lol anywho..afta skewl i came home n got ready 2 go 2 mariott..my mom took me ther 2 meet w/ rika veru n alex n of course LIV n we went up 2 our room 436!! :)
---
Anna:  What do you think? Bingo or bust?

What is Rika's last name?  :wink:

ERROR:   RIKA'S SURNAME BEGINS WITH "T" not a "P".  I wish we had the edit button!

Can you tell me what it is?

Klaas:   Niharika Trivedi (Rika)
Link:
http://www.aruba.com/phpNews/wmview.php?ArtID=542
Link:
http://www.renaissancearubamembers.com/

So March of 2005 fits with when we figured Joran & K2 started their  rampage of drug, rape & pilllage of 20 American tourist girls plus Natalee.  The pyscho sporter was dumped (again) in March. Consider your self very, very lucky Rika.

Thanks Leslie!

Rika's birthday is May 28th which would have been on a Saturday in 2005 and the day before Natalee Holloway was at C&C's.  She was turning 13 - becoming a teenager.  She and Natalie and Val were very good friends and I am sure she had a big party.  I see, from Natalie's on-line diary, that is a common practice to get a hotel room for a birthday bash even for kids this young.   Maybe the party lasted all weekend and was held in a room at the Renaissance Resort and Casino.  Maybe this is important.

Boy that first sentence jumped out at me.

Joran had to 'work' :?:

A hotel room for 13 year olds??? I wouldn't even allow my son and daughter to do that for their senior proms???

What is wrong with these elite on Aruba? No holds barred I guess? Rite of passage?

sheesh......!

Joran's "work" was probably attending "Yoga" classes for his anger management or he had been suspended from school and couldn't quite bring himself to tell the truth.

so true Leslie.......very likely

was it Nadira who was reported to have a key to an area at the Marriott? Where did I hear that and when?

Could be, I'm doing a little more digging right now.  I had Natalie's online diary link too and I had remembered the info on Rika but didn't know her last name.  Thanks!

I think it was more likely that Parimal Trivedi had ALL the keys.

Klaas:  I got the the full name and surname of Rika from the ISA newsletter Ocean Breeze but the link doesn't work anymore.
http://tinyurl.com/qu9we

I am still trying to get it.

 :lol:  :wink:

International School of Aruba

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/ISAstudentcouncil0506.jpg)

http://tinyurl.com/qu9we

 :lol:

Great work Leslie. You have the liars on the run.

Klaas:  Good work!  I was still looking and nada.

It isnt over yet San..

Let them destroy their own pit of hell they call a forum.  I noticed the biggest nastiest liars (Wang Chung comes to mind) have become mute and the topic has morphed into a whole new area.  They are just a bunch of idiots. But, I did get a lot out of going back to research the info.  8)

Good Day Monkeys

Just  (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/a78089e9.gif) peeking in to see what is going on

Geeee
I Must have locked the door and no one could get in...(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/d08ed2c7.gif)

Sorry :oops:

Sorry Oldfart - I'm getting ready to leave in a minute so trying not to post.  Need to shut my PC down too so my husband can shut the power off.  He's installing a light fixture.

Well I am here and am glad that Deep Throat is not Joran.
The young girlfriend of Joran , I knew about it before, it's been around for quite a while, but I sure didn't know she was 12 ! ! !  when they were going out or whatever it was he was doing with her.

Have FUN teaching.... :wink:

Nope, she worked at Manchebo Beach Hotel.

Leslie,
Yes, you found all of that months ago but you never know when somethiing is going to become important especially the way some people twist the truth.   :lol: I did not imagine that this would come up and Joran's minions would lie so blatantly about his age when he was involved with this 12 year old.

Good thing you kept it or could find it again.  And as predicted, now a 17 year old and a twelve (12) year old are suddenly just two "teens"?  Twelve is no "teen" as I believe the word would be preteen.

Also I love the new definition of statutory rape as some old person and a young one having consensual sex!  I had to (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/1657.gif) on that one.  While much has been made of the fact that Natlaee was a few months older than Joran, the age of consent to sexual activity I believe to be 16 so they were both old enough to consent based on that.

Statutory rape involves sex with someone, consensual or not, who is younger than the age of consent.  In this case, the girl is and Joran is not so I certainly hope nothing of that nature took place.  The graphic details of French Kissing as stated by someone of Joran's age and habits is just sickening. (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/yuksign.gif) IMO, of course.  Obviously, some defend it to the death if the perp is Joran.  That is just totally (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thicon4_lame.gif) but I did read just such today.  Why are the Joran supporters talking about statutory rape?  Do they know something we don't as they are always claiming to do?

It is indefensible for a 17 year old to be having any kind of intimate relationship with a 12 year old at these stages of developemnt for they are just too vastly mismatched both physically and emotionally.  Later in life, the number of years does not mean nearly as much but at this point they are critical.  But some people will try to justify just about anything I do believe.

Now I wonder why ALE was asking about all this?  And why did they allow Joran to lie about not knowing her last name?  The social norms in that place are just really something!  

 :shock:

Hotshot,
That doesn't sound like the key found in Deepak's car.  Is that the place that he had a key to the big freezer?   :roll: I never really got what that was all about either.

the only thing JORAN and K2 should be peddleing is their STUPID BIKES
off a CLIFF  :twisted:

Good Evening monkeys. What's going on tonight?  Is Klaas teaching again?  She's really in demand these days...

Hey, who's minding the monkey cage?  Red, are you out there somewhere?

There used to be a picture of this girl over at Huff's Crime blog, but because she was so young and had nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee, he never posted her name. Joran is the one who said there was no sex. My understanding is that HER parents made them break it off. So, she has parents who give a crap what she does.  The pix is gone.
She just looked like a young girl.  But I do not know the point of dragging her name into this. I know her first name is in the police statements, but she is a very young young girl who was probably flattered by the attention from Joran.

Sorry was studying.  Yes it was a key to where his mom worked.

Yes, I'm late today.  Leslie...nice save...I remember reading this (with all the little squiggly lines on the messages).

Didn't Melody mention something about a party that Friday night and the movies (that she saw Joran after...with her new boyfriend ...and he was sad) Sat night??

Didn't Satish's (?) statement say Joran was an intern at the Racket club?? Would that be work...or just access to keys, equipment and supplies??

Which Betancourt was in one of the statements??

In Dave's book, when LArry G. was speaking to Deepak via emails, D. wanted  $500,00.00 up front and he wanted the story to be about HIM.
On the Skeeters tape D. had the nerve to whine about some sports jacket the the police wrecked.
At this point, what could Deepak have to say that is worth 2 cents. Look at his statements to the police. They were worth nothing in terms of finding Natalee.
I don't need or want to know anything more that comes from him unless it is EVIDENCE to convict and recover Natalee.If being in jail wasn't enough to make him give it up, he is not going to give up anything more than more of the same bs.
Would you pay .99 cents to hear anything more from D. ?

Iwouldn't pay to read Deepak or Joran' s book.  I wouldn't even give time to reading it, if it was free.  I've heard enough stories already.  They better hope the Dutch get real interested or there'll be nobody reading.

That's the thing about those statements, they are only those things that the suspect agrees to sign that they have said to the police. They aren't confessions and aren't necessarily the truth, just what the suspects have agreed to sign off on. They may in themselves be total BS, misdirection, which if the police can't prove otherwise or won't follow up on are pretty much useless.

As we can see by reading them all the 'good stuff' or reasonable followups have been left out, probably because the suspect wouldn't agree to sign off on anything other than the sanitized, possibly scripted statements that we are seeing.

Buckeye,

I believe it was Luis Betancourt that was in the statement.  He was one of two boys who were in the Holiday Inn Sports Bar.

I agree. We heard enuf from him. Want to see what he has to say ?
Go to the Skeeters tape. Don't wait for the movie about a rat faced Surniman boy who just lied for his friend. His friend tried to implicate him and now his friend has the Dutch blondie girlfriends, while Deepak has his imagination and the internet porn sites.

Thanks Pita.  You saved me searching..

Your welcome, Buckeye!   :D

I'm not too worried about Deepak writing a book--if he can even write.  First, Deepak would have to make up a story that didn't hang him.  I'm not convinced he has this much imagination.  Secondly, publishers are in the book business to make money.  Who's going to buy a book by Deepak Kalpoe?  Not anyone I know.  Nope.  Deepak's book isn't going to fly.  Now, he might try self-publishing.  I believe there are some publishers on the web who, for a significant sum, will print your book for you.  However, this rather defeats the whole purpose for him.  My best advice to Deepak is to give up the book idea.  It's not going to fly, trust me.

I am hoping to expand on this dialogue and the statements within,  therefore I am posting it for all to view...  

Please email me if you have anything further to add > tdbweb2003@yahoo.com

 “Did you know that the missing girls family sent a private investigator to my home at midnight to do a voice analysis on me? Are you aware that this was done without preparing me beyond a phone call only moments prior to getting to the house. Are you also aware that these folks also did not come clean. They pretended to be doing a story for a major paper that was there to uncover the whole truth. And .. are you aware that the voice stress test came up 100% clean? did you know that? Are you aware that I have been grilled and questioned by (in excess of) 4 different groups? Are you aware that there was never a trace of variance nor was there ever any inkling of lack of anything but truth and cooperation? Did you know that? go back and do some real homewark. Get your facts straight. Find out that because I made the decision to help a mother during a terrible moment in her life that this same family took an oath to "Burn Aruba To The Ground" You can quote me on that to Mr. Judd. Are you aware that there was a concious effort made to destroy my business? We suffered cancellations and many other hardships and practically had to close our doors. Why? William it happened because we wanted to help. Practically all persons that interviewed me - manipulated my words to their comfort and to get to those persons most likely to be affected by the trash that was printed. I for one, canont cater to an Enquirer based culture. It is a waste of all our times.”

Grande: You stated... "are you aware that the voice stress test came up 100% clean? did you know that?"  I can't answer that as I am unaware of the context of this statement and who it refers too. Yourself or Joran?

 “I refer to myself. I was asked many trick questions that appeared to be a part of a conversation and (try as they did) the test stayed completely in the "Green Zone" In other words, I did not lie and was not under stress in my coments. Why? Simple - nothing to gain from lying and everything to gain from helping a distraught family. Simply put, I told the truth. And equally as simply put, it was not a convenient thing for the family to have out there, so that truth was hidden. Not squashed, but hidden. I have nothing to hide from anyone that is earnest in their approach to me. Try to understand the horrible - beyond words - circumstances that existed and that we all lived through and imagine for a moment that as horrible as we all fealt, that we knew - or assumed - that the family suffered countless times more. We will talk again since I feel that the person that wrote the article about me also did not do his homework. I repeat the following question : "I am interested in your use of the word Shango. Perhaps you will find it in your heart to reveal this? Dig deep."

Grande: "I am interested in your use of the word Shango. Perhaps you will find it in your heart to reveal this? Dig deep." I appreciate your time again. The reference is to the Shango that posted on Scared Monkeys who presumably had inside information. The posts originated from an ISP in the Plantation,  Florida area, which coincidentally is the same are Gabriel Leo now lives and has for quite some time with Jairo and Myrna. Frankly, I felt that you were the source of the information in hopes of expediting the investigation, there in lies my motive for the reference, although looking back I regret making. Would you care to explain your use of the term "Mr. Judd"?

 “Mr. Judd is what I started calling Beths husband. He was very judgmental about Aruba and its people and referred to us as: Island idiots Island Niggers Cock suckers Ass holes And on and on and on From Judge came Judd etc. He cooled his jets a little when he had an official complaint made against him for pushing a woman that was holding a baby. He is truly a Disney kind of guy. Quite a fellah”

Grande: “Sander's phone wasn't really lost was it? It was Sander's phone that was used to make that early morning phone call correct? If you can discount this I would be grateful.”

 “Let me see if I can satisfy this apparent apetite you have for this matter with some truth and not speculation. HONEST AND PURE ANSWER: I do not know this and my inclination is to answer that up until today, no one is sure. Why do I say that? Consider that it was the principal reason that they called me that night. I was called to see if the phone was one of our company phones. It wasn't and after multiple questioning on that topic and reviewing our files repeatedly, we definately knew that the phone was not ours. After that, my involvement was more dedicated to being of assistance to the family and not to phone issues, with the exception of answering questions related to that topic. As big of a deal as it was at the onset, it seemed to die off - with all parties - not just one side or the other. So I canno0t discount or affirm your statement since I simply do not know and was not in the info loop regarding this issue…”

Grande: “Isn't this phone call a matter of  public record via the civil suit recently ruled against? Is it that you are just not willing to provide a detail like that…”  

 “Yes it was Julia Renfro that he pushed. Real American Hero isn't he? Only other thing he could have done to "trump" that piece of bravado was to find a puppy to kick. Regarding details on phone calls, trust me that if I did have details about the phone call, I would be telling them to anyone that asked os asks today, however there is no reason to invent an interesting lie instead of telling the boring truth. There is just too much to be lost in hiding the truth. Regarding Geoffrey and drug use or selling and buying, I am completely and honestly not in that info loop. It did not get involved in her drug activities beyond being made aware by various persons (over time)that those activities existed. Is it true? DO NOT KNOW and WAS NOT THERE. My goal at the time was the goal to find her as soon as posible so I dedicated efforts to the imediate and not to events leading up to it. The Caribbean or anywhere else on earth has its' cultures, sub-cultures and their underground worlds. Since many island nations are small, those cultures and sub worlds are simply harder to hide and so much more obvious. Getting sucked into them is not hard on one hand and on the other, these cultures are so obvious to the naked eye that they can be easily avoided by the savvy or alert person. What happens is that there is an aspect that I call a "Delicious danger" and much like moths to flames, they are attractive to that small lurid side that resides in 99% of us. "No-one-will-know" is much too often the mistaken reasoning for entering into situations that should be avoided. if you are (as you say you are) committed to the truth, then you will have to walk the many mazes of deception and misinformation. Consider that in protecting the innocent, we have to assume that the innocent is just that - innocent. So .... Who was or is at fault? Which path would have been the best to take? Where will your enquiries lead you? Let me know, and remember a small script left behind by one of our most famouse historical figures; "Cerca Trova" My ability to visualize what would happen was nothing more than an analysis of the logical outcome. Consider what I had as information at the time: Mother and Step Father are looking for a lost daughter They have the finances to get on a provate jet and come here Mother is distraught Step father sits around sulking all the time Step father was against the girl taking the trip While not attractive, the girl is white and blonde Her chaperones are misteriously not being held responsible Her highschool friends did not go to her aid Her firends hop on a plane the following day and say bye to Aruba and ... She is seen leaving with three young men (strange thing to do) She says her mother is related to Hitler She insinuates she is a virgin She is said to be using drugs that evening The young man is an odd-ball at best The young man is articulate for his age and intelligent (off the scale). There is an air or aura of "things being hidden" by ALL SIDES. As the days followed the initial night of my involvement, I saw the group of people grow into a circus of those looking for attention. Anything and everything was coming out of the woodwork - most of it bull shitters. What good can come of this? What are the truths behind it all? Is it easy for a mother to admitt that her daughter is not 100% pure? Why would a step-father not be more supportive? Why so much drinking with the boys at night when the searches came to an end. Why so much talk about connections with (and I quote) The supreme highest person in America. Shortly after that Ms. Rice (USA) makes statements and consoles the parents. Did she do this to other parents in America? It all stunk to high heaven and it prompted me to make the statement that I did. If looked at from that point of view, it is a simple deduction and nothing more. I just happened to be at (hate this term) "Ground Zero". some day (perhaps) you and I will have an opportunity to talk face to face. You will realize then that the statements in Vanity Fair were actually an UNFAIR and VAIN way for a magazine to sell copies. I asked them twice for the copies of the final script to make sure that I was properly quoted. What did I get? A final edition only days before it was on the stands. This is the way America showed its face here. While not representative of the country, as a whole, it was not a pretty sight. Consider the cast of characters: Would you send Mr. Judd to represent the USA at the "Good-Guy" olympics? NOPE! Is it fair to say that a mother that goes through the anquish that she did might act in a manner that is not normal to her calmer side or persona? YEP! So you have two persons that for their own reasons are not at their best, yet we listen to their every word as if they were letters of gold. Think and if all else fails you, CERCA TROVA And know that to look for the truth is a good thing, however to tell it is both noble and sometimes not popular. you cought me at just the right momment on this topic. That is the only reason that I have taken to time to state what I did. Next time you meet that man or lady that wrote that piece about me (the one you gave me the link too) - tell that person that there is a mule in my back yard and that they are welcome to go there and kiss that mule. I only say that because the article is untruthfull and written by an obvious self serving personality. hope you arent the mule lover…”

Grande:  “I apreciate your response on all accounts. Please allow me a few moments to digest what you have written as I intend to fully respond. Have we dropped the Shango dialogue for any particular reason?”

 “If we ever meet in person, I will share it with you. It has nothing to do with NH”

Grande: “Is there any chance you can expand on your latest response…”

 “It is simple. In the religion that I practice, "Chango" is one of the more important Saints. Often times, people misuse that name or spell it incorrectly. That is a very bad thing to do . Kind of like mispelling Jesus. It is a personal thing. Nothing more. Cerca Trova”

Grande: “Did Gabriel post on your behalf?...”

 “You are not the first one to ask me about Gabriel. I do not know a "Gabriel" and do not know what he/she posted. Want to fill me in? Wisdom - give that term solid thought. Wisdom certainly does not reside in this skull. YOu and I walk the same paths - only difference being that my point of view is that of the Carribean while your is that of your surroundings…”

Grande: “For as long as I can recall, Gabriel Leo has been accredited with 'jumping the fence' at the Van Der Sloots on that Tuesday morning (what a Tuesday it must have been, one you won't soon forget, regret on the other hand...) My understanding is that he wrote down Deepak's license plate prior to the Holloway/Twitty’s arriving. Quite honestly I was under the impression he was the one that assisted you in getting to the VDS residence at appx. 2:40am. Perhaps this picture of Gabriel http://i3.tinypic.com/169lvls.jpg will provide will evoke a memory. It is widely accepted that Gabriel was at the VDS residence the night the search was initiated…”

 “It ws such a blurr that I try to only stick to the facts that I can aver to without hesitation and Gabrial isn't one of them.. Not saying the lad was't there, just saying I do not recall…”

I have no idea of what Mr. Croes is speaking.
When he is asked about Sander's phone, he rambles on so much that   ??? Clue me in please..
Is he saying he was called because the phone number was Sanders when the call to William was made OR that they thought it might be one of his ?
And how / why did Croes get William phone number ?

KatGram,
Skeeters has never released his tapes for us to go to.  As far as I know, no one has heard his actual original or even copies of that yet.  It was being authenticated and then we heard that it had been but we do not have any actual copies.

So we can't go to Skeeters tapes, we don't have them to go to.

 :(

Mr. Croes fancies himself a spinner of tales and a man of letters.  That's hogwash, pure and simple.

My opinion--Croes is delusional.  He has built himself a little private paradise on that desert island where someone brings him his pina colada and a small boy holds the fan that cools him.  He's a liar and spinner of tales.  He'll tell you whatever you want to hear, whenever you want to hear it, as long as it doesn't interfere with his tee time, mind you.  He'll get back to you after that.

So this is saying that it is someone other than the three suspects and male.

Well, that's a start.  But like everything else I would have thought we would have had this information by now.  Everything just seems to fizzle out into nothing. . . . . . :(

Anna, I'd put my money on Freddy to blab his heart out, especially when he offered immunity and protection in Florida with his big bro.  Freddy will put that island behind him in a minute to share his brother's life in the US and the VDS crew are going down.

If C. Croes actually answered a question, instead of giving a philosophical dissertion when asked a question...a voice stress analysis (which I'm not sure of in the first place) might have had a chance to register.  His goal in life is nirvana, peace, harmony and I believe he would resent any "negative energy" infringing on his space.  Unfortunately, REAL LIFE and true evil are not pretty.  His island won't be the beauty in his brain without addressing THE REAL issues.  Real people get angry and frustrated.  Those are real emotions...not the lets pretend everything is beautiful and it will be beautiful.  He's a manipulator, but this time the story didn't sell.  Poor Charles, maybe he needs to go for a few sessions with the "Dr." in the shorts under the tree, with the homeopathic elixirs....the world will be better.  IMO

.
Someone posted last night CCroes referring to Beth as a grieving mother that first night.  So why would she be described as such with Natalee only missing a few hours unless he knew what had happened to her at that point?

AZLADY,
I agree and I really don't believe he does not remember if A.G. Leo was with him or not just as I cannot really believe Jug Twitty said all those things or pushed Julia Renfro for that matter.  

Like Dompig, this has become all about Charlie to Charles Croes.  You'd think that any inconvenience he has suffered is on par with losing a child from his rant.  Worse, even!  Someone dared question the integrity of the investigation?  Well, they certainly had every right to do so.  Yes, this has just been so hard on not Natalee and not her parents but Arubans!!  

WoW!  That is major messed up!

What on earth is wrong with these people?  Does this come of too many having the same last names and inter-marrying too closely for too long?

. :shock:

I'm with you, Buckeye.  Charles really resents that the death of a young innocent girl intruded on his Nirvana.  The nerve!  And this man thinks we should take him seriously?  Yeah, right.

Mr C

Natalee was beautiful.
She was manipulated to get into that car.
Her parents have a strong backing, money, the right connections. To criticize them smacks of sour grapes to me.

If Jug wanted to end the day by a drink, who are you to be critical?
Not once did Mr. C say the ALE could have possibly played favorites or made mistakes.
(I am steamed at a lot of the comments, just replying off the top of my head after reading Grande's post.)

Don't know.  Freddy's tickle site came down pretty fast.  I believe he is the video magician with the brother porn link.  I believe the early rumors that Freddy was at Joran's that night.....maybe the Max Arends in Florida??

I think one thing I have learned from that island is not to trust anyone, they all have hidden agenda's..  None of those people helped Beth and Jug when they needed a friend.. They all escaped from some mental health ward and they are all off their meds..  Your either a con man or one of the shills if you live in that cess pool.. Let them all rot on that island of make believe paradise..

Anna, that must be it.  I know that all that inter-marrying produces genetic problems.  I think the hot sun must have fried Charles' brain, to boot.

Next time, just submit some direct questions to Croes.
Did.. blah  blah  blah  ?                  
Yes X.........X  OR    No X........X
Please indicate your repsonse in the appropriate space with your
unsharpened crayon, Chuckie.
.
No wonder we never know what they said ! !

Good nite,  unbelievable..

No, thanks.  

No, I don't think there is direct evidence but he does supposedly say things like if he knew where Natalee was buried he would have told long ago which is maybe evidence of a very indirect sort.  That copy on that site is one of the ones that passed through ALE hands and sounds like Deepak doing a voice over to me and I do not trust that source at all.  At least at that time, he was a total Joran supporter.  ALE's copy does not sound like the others I heard at all.

Just about all of the things we discuss fall short of being evidence for obviously we don't have any of that and there well may not be any in existence now.

.

Buckeye, think about it.  The witness has to have been there to be a credible and valid witness.  I think Freddy was there, too.  But if he was behind the camera, then there is no evidence that Freddy actually raped or killed Natalee.  Thus, who better to make a deal with than someone who witnessed the attack but did not actually participate?  Freddy has money and family in the US.  If this comes down and all the suspects are rounded up, who is going to blab and cry and spill his guts to save himself?  The guy who saw the crime and has the resources to buy US lawyers to defend him.  The guy who was behind the camera.

How did Mr C just happen to know where to pull off on the beach and ask about the silver car? He knows plenty that goes on in Aruba. Not saying he knows squat about Natalee, just saying I feel like he knows a lot about the ugly side of the Island, the players. If he doesn't, then he needs to quit acting like he does.

I think the island spokespeople always criticize the drinks after searching the choller houses, landfills and other trashed and desert areas because the Americans were not supporting the drug pushers around the hotels.  I heard the price of whatever Charles and Julia and the rest had been smoking went up because of no buyers those months (maybe that is just a rumor....).  A stawberry daiqueria or glass of wine in the heat would serve my purposes, especially if I knew the next day would bring more of the same... with no help.  How depressing.  Night all.

Yes, she did Buckeye, and kept going on about it HAD to have been on that date and this was how she knew it was the date she saw Joran who was all sad because he was not with her.  Or something.

And I understood her at the time to claim Freddy spent THAT night, the one when Natalee disappeared at Joran's.

Was that YOUR take on what she said as well?  

.

Then...Paulus and the elders would have to have done the cleanup without Freddy around??  I just think Freddy participated...he's been on the previous trips...maybe someone held the camera when he took a turn.  He would be turning on himself...IMO

Grande,
If you are still here, what did you make of all this blather from Croes?    Why do you think he is attacking the victim and her family like this?

.

I remember it like that too....then later it got twisted to Koen...then Freddy in Florida...then Koen in Florida....but the first name was Freddy...and he seems to live there...and told the truth to Anita (maybe his surrogate mom??)....

and the early rumors of Natalee trying to climb the gate and falling....

Really going now...look at the time...

Thanks all.......

Anna, I remember that too.  She saw Joran on Saturday night, saying he looked sad.  She said Freddy spend the night at Joran's on Sunday night.  I remember because I found it odd that Joran would go out to C & C's with the Kalpoes at midnight if Freddy was spending the night.  Not much night left to see your houseguest, but I suppose they host overnight guests differently in Aruba.

Hiya Monkeys. Just popped in to catch up & see you are discussing Melody & what she said about seeing Joran. Here is the link to the posts I had saved of hers.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=163

imagine Joran meeting the parents of the next girl he wants to date ??

"hi, my name is JORAN, nice to meet you mr and mrs SMITH  i have been drinking and gambling since i was 12 years old, i have lied to the police, my parents, the press and everyone else you can imagine. i am the PRIME suspect in the Natalee Halloway case, now what time did you say i need to have your daughter back by tonight?"


JORAN --------  NEWS FLASH

youre DONE Buddy BOY  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

I've thought bout this but in conjection to the monday morning arm chair quarterback theory.  He most likely didn;t know Beth was grieving at the time, but in thid present day he refers to her a such.  Same deal with the suspects calling people by names and where they were staying. They know in hindsight. JMO

in case anyone is wondering what today is
well, here it is

i like his music a lot  8)



In 1991, Texas governor Ann Richards proclaimed October 3, Vaughan's birthday, to be "Stevie Ray Vaughan Day." This day is often celebrated by eating cotton candy, a favorite food of Stevie's.

is everyone here afraid of ROBOTS ??


i dont bite




much  :twisted:  :lol:  :D

.
Robots,
I'm not familiar with his music, at lest that I can recall.  Name sounds familiar but nothing comes to mind is he famous for any certain songs?

Also sort of bummed out by all this for some reason tonight.  Lord knows we should all be used to it by now.   :roll:

What part of they are the offending party and it is Natalee who was wronged does Aruba not get?  If you make somebody's child disappear, they are pretty well entitled to say or do anything to you they want to or can do.  Yet they seem to think that is is they, the Arubans, who have been wronged??  Don't get it.  That is just not how the world works.

.

After playing in a series of bands, Dallas-native Vaughan formed the blues rock combo Double Trouble with drummer Chris Layton and bassist Jackie Newhouse in the late 1970s. Tommy Shannon replaced Newhouse in 1981. A popular local draw, Vaughan soon attracted attention from David Bowie and Jackson Browne, and he played on albums with both. Bowie first caught Vaughan at the Montreux Jazz Festival where initially a few members of the audience, who disliked his hard blues sound, booed Vaughan, though most of the crowd cheered him, as can be witnessed in the "Live at Montreux" DVD. Bowie featured Vaughan on his Let's Dance album in the songs "Let's Dance" and "China Girl". Stevie Ray Vaughan's blues playing style was strongly influenced by Albert King who dubbed himself Stevie's "Godfather". Stevie had a distinct sound of his own which was partly based on using heavy thirteen-gauge strings. Vaughan's sound and playing style, which often features simultaneous lead and rhythm parts, also draws frequent comparisons to that of Jimi Hendrix; Vaughan covered several Hendrix tunes on his studio albums and in performance.


Vaughan's comeback was cut short when, in the early morning of August 27, 1990, he died in a helicopter crash near East Troy, Wisconsin following a concert at the Alpine Valley Music Theater where earlier in the evening he appeared with Robert Cray, Buddy Guy, Eric Clapton and his older brother Jimmie Vaughan. It was Eric Clapton who gave his seat on the helicopter to Stevie.

if you like blues, you probably will go GAGA over SRV

i know i do  8)
well maybe not GAGA,,,but you know what i mean  8)

It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.
Samuel Adams


i think monkeys have lit a few fires lately  8)  8)

Yes, he sounds a little familiar to me, Robots and am sure I would like his music.


I guess we all go through phases where this just seems hopeless but we will hold up and hold out for Natalee's family for both she and they deserve so much better than this.

Niters, anybody still reading!   :wink:

[quote="robots]
In 1991, Texas governor Ann Richards proclaimed October 3, Vaughan's birthday, to be "Stevie Ray Vaughan Day." This day is often celebrated by eating cotton candy, a favorite food of Stevie's.[/quote]

I have their Double Trouble CD in my bathroom.  Just love them!!

I have their Double Trouble CD in my bathroom.  Just love them!![/quote]

The Sandman is here - gotta go.  G'nite & pleasant dreams to all you beautiful monkeys.

A quote from a terryd270 post:

"...You're either a con man or one of the shills if you live in that cess pool.. Let them all rot on that island of make believe paradise.."

that's the truth

Hard drive copies are on my site if you want to hear them.  Please don't ask how, and to prove it.  They came from a "highly" respectable person, is all I can say.

http://www.arubassilence.com/skeeters.html

Sorry here is the addtress.

Good morning HotShot!! How are you doing?  Is school teaching the old dog some new tricks?  HEE HEE.   :lol:   :wink:

The only thing I can say to that is - Croes, dont ever make the mistake of crossing my path.  I will give you a major dose of reality - something of which you lack in a major way.

Rise and shine my monkey friends!  My dogs woke me up by barking. I thought my pregnant dog was having her puppies, b/c they usually bark to let me know.  False alarm.   :roll:

Hey, how are you?  OMG, it's not an easy thing to do.  I have to go and take a shower now, and head off to school for a test.  I even made my "flashcards".... :lol:

Croes must have taken a speech course from our ex Pres Clinton on "How to speak, avoid the questions, and say nothing through doublespeak."

Good luck with the test - I'm sure you'll ACE it!  :D  :D  :D

The Sandman is here - gotta go.  G'nite & pleasant dreams to all you beautiful monkeys.[/quote]

yea, they are good players

all of 3 of em  8)

Good morning.  

Plenty of work on my desk today.

Charles Croes is a legend in his own mind.  I can't believe he actually thought Vanity Fair was going to give him an advance copy for his "approval".  What an ego!

Anna, I know what you mean.  Sometimes, this whole thing makes me so sad.  Every time I reach for the fridge door, I see the fridge magnet with Natalee's lovely face and to think about what has happened just makes me sick.  And somebody knows what happened.  Somebody could put a stop to the whole mess.  But they won't.  Because they suck.  I hope karma bites everyone involved seriously in the butt.

yea, they are good players

all of 3 of em  8)[/quote]


If y'all like SRV check this guy out - Chris Duarte  http://www.chrisduartegroupfans.org/

He's another Texas boy and blues guitar god.  I dont know why this guy has not made it big time yet but its probably because his vocals are no where near as strong as his ability on the guitar.  Then again , there probably isnt anyone out there, alive, today, as strong on the guitar as this guy.

thanks blah, will check it out  8)

If y'all like SRV check this guy out - Chris Duarte  http://www.chrisduartegroupfans.org/

He's another Texas boy and blues guitar god.  I dont know why this guy has not made it big time yet but its probably because his vocals are no where near as strong as his ability on the guitar.  Then again , there probably isnt anyone out there, alive, today, as strong on the guitar as this guy.[/quote]

he even resembles SRV

 :shock:

a little bit

JORAN
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Smileys/Joran.gif)

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Good Morning Monkeys!

Like Peaches, I have a load of work today. Yuk!

The discussion of Charles Croes:  In my opinion, he is a nut case.  I feel he knows more than he is willing to tell- something stinks as far as his involvement is concerned.  

I hope that one day - ALL of those that know something but have refused to come forward - gets their just desserts.  There is no excuse for this.

I agree Kimmy.  You said it in a nicer way than I would have.

CC and most of the people on island aruba are HYPOCRITES.. Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have morals or virtues that one does not have..  The kids have great role models on that island of snakes..[/b]

Sorry about not saying good morning!  I have so much work to do but wanted to checkin to see if anything is happening.. Did Beth ever do the Nancy Grace show that she was supposed to be on last week?  Did John Q. Kelly ever go back to Aruba as he mention after the lawsuit?  So is the team of Dutch investigators a team or just one person?  I'm very confused about that, it was supposed to be a team with guns and that they had complete autonomy..  Now I'm hearing one person is going to reread the reports, umm can't that be done in Holland.  Also isn't their enough out there to show the corruption that there shouldn't be a need for one person to go over to review anything..  I guess I'm not coming from the same place that it seems the Dutch are coming from on this case..

I believe they are sending the Dutch team to be sure to closed all the lose ends and sanitized the case.. I think they will be proud of the ALE for a great job of doing such a great job in doing that already.. Maybe a few pieces of papers need to be destroyed but still a good job under the pressure they were under, with us watching them.. They will do it better next time a tourist is killed and raped..

Me, too.

Good morning terry - I am sorry, but I don't know whether JQK went back to Aruba.  Seems there is nothing new to report as far as the investigation goes.  I have heard there is a "team", but also heard that there would be one person reviewing the case - I don't know what to believe - guess we will just have to wait and see.  I am trying very hard to be optimistic about this... It is so hard.  You would think that the inconsistancies would glare out - there are so many "red flags" I have seen, and I am not an investigator.  Guess we'll see if they choose to ignore it or not.

I want justice for Natalee.  I want those who were involved in her disappearance punished.  I want those who destroyed and hid evidence to be punished.  I want those that have stood by, turned a blind eye and let this happen to be punished.   How frustrating it is for us - I cannot imagine the pain and frustration Natalees families feel.

Amen, Kimmy!

Just give Natalee back to her family!

I guess I'm being too negative but when I hear something, I think where is it coming from (Aruba & Holland), I discount immediately.. I was kinda wrong with the last interview from Holland and Beth, I thought it was a good one and now I'm glad Beth went and did it.. I was against it at first but they proved me wrong and I'm glad they did.. I just wish they would prove me wrong more often.. Maybe one day I will see all the PIMPS being rounded up and being arrested and they return Natalee to her parents..  The sad part of this is that I knew there were snakes in this world, just not so many..

td

I agree - I for the life of me can't understand how some people can be so cold and callous.  It is a sad state of affairs for sure.

Something I have wondered though - How do we know that no one has come forward with information or evidence - only to be destroyed, covered up or dismissed as nothing?  The piece of cloth that matches Natalee's top was a FISH NET???  It is hard to tell how much may have been brought forward only to be dismissed.  ALE would love this, they wouldn't have to go out and find this stuff, they get it brought to them and they take care of it from there.  I certainly don't trust ALE.  Then again the Aruban people probably don't either.  Perhaps IF this new team (or person) comes in, someone who has been afraid will come forward.

Just posted by Viet Vet on the front page of SM:

Joran is certainly living life with one eye looking at his back at all times. Bet he gets shivers ever time a new person shows up in his surrondings, particularly some man from the USA. He really needs to worry more about a woman from central Europe. Do you think he sleeps well every night? I would be afraid to turn the lights down if it were me in his shoes, whatever size they are. How about it Kelmal/Gretamal/Meatamal, you think he feels safe? Is he drinking more these days and enjoying it less? He probably has enough earnings from frequent flyer miles to pay Aruba’s debts. Running, running, running, but he can never hide.

I agree - I for the life of me can't understand how some people can be so cold and callous.  It is a sad state of affairs for sure.

Something I have wondered though - How do we know that no one has come forward with information or evidence - only to be destroyed, covered up or dismissed as nothing?  The piece of cloth that matches Natalee's top was a FISH NET???  It is hard to tell how much may have been brought forward only to be dismissed.  ALE would love this, they wouldn't have to go out and find this stuff, they get it brought to them and they take care of it from there.  I certainly don't trust ALE.  Then again the Aruban people probably don't either.  Perhaps IF this new team (or person) comes in, someone who has been afraid will come forward.

Klaas - Thanks for digging up the crime stats at the Aruba library. I posted the Amigoe article on the M&C thread.

Their figures tally with ours! (Except of course Natalee probably isn't counted as a murder/homicide.)

Also - Did you notice - No suicides by jumping, as in off a building?

I did see they had a "poison" suicide - that's the one we've been trying to get some detail about. "Poison on the beach" ...

Yes, I did notice.  You know, MF and others keep talking about how these statistics are published, but how many have been "swept under the rug" so to speak?

mornin'

any word on the 'Hollandaise' investigators comin in,,, with bullets and everything?   or is it the one guy now?

these lyrics come to mind,,,,,

"meet the new boss,,,,,,same as the old boss"
The Who,,,
'We won't get fooled again"....


God Bless Natalee,,,,Wherever She Is...............

Go Cowboys,,,, Go Yanks..........

HotShot, Thanks for that link.  I will try to listen but it is very long and I know the original does not sound like the one that the ALE was listening to, all kinds of added background noise.  But I will check it out this evening.

MsMarple and Klaas,

We were clearly led to believe around the time of the beheading of the refinery worker that there were no stats available and it was because crime was just so low there they didn't bother.  What a crock!

But how on earth are tourists supposed to know to go to the library and check for crime stats?  Especially when the officials and AHATA and even the OM are saying there just is not enough to be worth mentioning, a mere handful of incidents per year.

Look at that year with 8 murders!! Yikes!  So they do know and apparently have known all along that they do not have any such thing as a low crime rate yet continued to advertise that they did.  This is not just false advertising but misinformation of a kind that puts tourists lives at risk.  What if all countries just claimed no crime when in fact it was this prevalent?  Well, maybe some do but there are usually consequences.

Yet another reason to stay away for who knows what is going on when we are told there is no crime and yet the police are fully aware that there is.  Where is the stat for number drugged at local bars I wonder.  Bet that one is too high to tally!   :?

MsMarple!!  WoW!  We found them all, all the murders or at least all that the police did.  And in Papiamento at that!!  You have done such a good job!   And just why do you think there are suddenly articles about this very thingy???  You have amazed me at your work and abilities to get this information to the people that you have.  

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/foryou.gif)

Hi Anna-

Kudos indeed to MsMarples and to you - btw, LOVE those daisies!

I am growing increasingly concerned like thik, that garrison's leak regarding deep throat could be one more diversionary tactic, so that the lone Dutchman can come in and quietly close the case?

I so hope I am wrong.....

Well we can guarantee these stats never hit the PR firm's collateral and propaganda regarding traveling to that rock of an island!!

I saw BOC reported the other night that he's still not selling Aruba via his agency, GO BOC !!!!!!!

New Front Page Post:

Aruban Tourism … Still An Endangered Species

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/10/04/aruban-tourism-still-an-endangered-species/

Another great job by Vanderbilt - '06

Thanks Red, great analogy & visual on that one !

Un-real.  Is Foley going for the trans-fat/second hand smoke defense?


http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=56346#56346

Er, Blah,
Scott Ott is a comedienne and a pretty good one  He writes a humor column.  It's OK, it's a joke.

But seriously, Foley should use whatever defense Rep. Barney Franks (D) used when caught with that gay prostitution ring being run out of his office.  It earned him a promotion and he is still in office until this day.

But Ott is making a funny with his column which he writes at least once daily.  You can subscribe to it and receive his articles via email.  I do.  Some are hilarious.   :D

.

O/T




Here's a link to Scott Ott/Scrapleface's website:


Bush Fires Rumsfeld, Nominates Bob Woodward
by Scott Ott
(2006-10-02) -- White House sources today said that President George Bush, under increasing pressure to 'win the peace' in Iraq, will fire embattled Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and nominate Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward as his replacement.
READ THE REST AT...
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2346

He is funny and gives both sides whatfor!   :D  :D  :D

.

your kidding me, I had no idea.   Now i feel like an ass, someone is going to have a good laugh (I got that in an e-mail, had no idea it was a joke)

klaas or someone can delete that thread if you want.

for the record - I'm blaming "Sudafed" for my lack of checking it out before posting  :wink:

 :shock:

What a waste of bandwidth.

The sewage lines to his mouth must have backed up and I guess someone just fixed it to allow the sewage to freely float out of his mouth.

I'm curious Charles. You're a 60 year old man. Do you have that many young men ride around in your car with you that you can't remember the evening with Gabriel Leo??

And Charles -- if your words were not reflected properly in Vanity Fair -- where is your letter to the editor demanding a retraction? Is it okay with you for those words to be assocaited with you? Or better yet -- write him a poem.

well said Sharon-

CCroes is a blight on this case and was from the first moment.

NO EXCUSES - he needs to OWN what he's done here.

His recollections and perceptions are interesting.  He says he only wants to speak of facts he remembers but tells of Jug pushing Julia - was he there?  Did he see it?  What's worse than pushing Julia?  A 17-year old high school boy allowed to drink and gamble, leave a tourist who was going in and out of consciousness on a beach (or anywhere else) in the middle of the night.  Yet this young man who at the very least is guilty of obstruction of justice, is probably a pathological liar, is probably responsible for the death of a young woman has the total protection of the police, judges, and whole of Aruban society.  I don't object to hearing the criticisms of the US, but I want to know they're are not self-serving stories conjured up by those who thought they could defend their own actions by blaming others.  There's no reference in his statements to the words and actions of those responsible for investigating this case, nor those of the last three individuals who were with Natalee.  No mention of the lack of law enforcement that allowed Joran to routinely cruise bars and casinos for the purpose of picking up tourists "for sex" as he tells us.  No explanation of why police statements didn't include what many others heard Joran say to police the first night, announcements of confessions and bodies than are suddenly denied.  Why did the police all know there were Americans going to crack houses but not that an American tourist was missing?  Criticize America all you want--the whole world does--but take a good look at yourselves.  It's not pretty either.  Why say it's odd that Natalee got into a car with 3 Aruban young men?  Because they know they are predators who regularly look for tourists who are easy or drunk or on drugs and easy marks?  They are not the nice boys that Aruba wants us to think they are.  Aruba CANNOT defend themselves in this by saying that Americans can be overbearing, arrogant, crass or foolish.  There are people like that in every society, including Aruba.  They CANNOT justify societal norms that excuse lying, drug use, corruption and predatory behavior by blaming tourists or their families.

Well, without the website, how were you to know!  But I bought one of his books one time I like him so much.

.
 :D

Hogwash is right ~ What a crock !

Wasn't around last night and haven't had a chance to catch up on the FP or posts here, but there seems to be a black cloud over the cage.  Going to make some lunch now - stay positive and hopeful, monkeys, justice will be served - one way or another.

I'm steamed too...he also displays a real anti-American and a very jealous mindset, in my opinion.

Lil Puma, that big ole rant is Post of the Day for me.  Good job.

You said it all.

Well said LilPuma-

What CCroes neglects to tell is that upon arrival that night, he and others spoke at times in Papimento when at the VDS home, and the climate was hostile at the get-go. THAT is what Jug responded to, getting an attitude from Paulus and friends after waiting and waiting for him to even come outside, then Jug rightfully sensed the duck and weave that began right away. Let's also not forget Joran's appearance at the car window, to slam his chest at Beth and to say in essence so what do you expect me to do about this?

SUCH respect and concern and accountability? I don't blame Jug for his response, alpha males only take so much crap before they call a spade a spade.

For CCroes to even mention the word honor is blasphemy and as for Julia being anything akin to a puppy, just review the sick humor she posted with on this very site day after day after day.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

Joran did the same thing the night Natalee disappeared.  Followed by a visit to a porn sight after leaving a young tourist going in and out of consciousness on a beach at 3:00 a.m.  Or so Joran claims.  CCroes doesn't seem to have a problem with that.  CCroes doesn't have a problem with Satish asking how the girl is doing the next morning while Joran tells the world via the hated, dishonest, overbearing, US media that she was just fine.

No kidding...my wine time would begin around 2 p.m. That must have been pure hell.

Hey, None!

Yes, remember every thing Julia posted, the more gruesome the better, she followed by ROTFLMAO!!!   :? That used to really steam me.  What was it she found so funny?

 :(

I remember this also.

So true Anna, she would literally beat up posters here  and make the most insensitive remarks about Natalee, and we're supposed to believe she's a victim????????? Honestly if I were as openly disrespectful to others without provocation as we witnessed here, I'd be surprised if I weren't slapped much less pushed.

She reminds me of the women you meet in resort areas who look as jaded and worn as they truly are both inside and out, who are aging and losing their 'assets' they have played the game with.

She doesn't have friends, she keeps her enemies close, that's all.