Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

 ::cartwheel:: Thanks gang ... for the help!

 


::MonkeyDance::  You're welcome!

Brought this over hoping someone will tell us what it says!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MiscNews3/11132008BondiaA3.jpg)

11/13/08 Bondia

“joran van de sloot is manchando name of aruba for of ‘tantisimo’ trip at level internacional thursday, 13 november 2008 oranjestad /den haag – the publicacionnan recien of joran vd sloot at the netherlands, is manchando the name of aruba ‘pa of tantisimo trip at level internacional’ is comentario of minister of husticia rudy croes for of the netherlands. according croes, the is believe cu vd sloot owing to huy for of thailand for fright of the accionnan cu thailand can owing to cuminsa contra dje. the mandatario is referi at grabacionnan cu have cu owing to stay televisa of joran vd sloot diadomingo at the netherlands. this where cu joran was ofrece muhernan thailandes for come work at the netherlands because; supuesto bailarin while cu the intencion is for employ they because; prostituta. according the mandatario, is good for cuminsa evalua if the person dutch here is welcome at aruba, the country cu tanto according croes owing to abide, y is follow abide at one form ‘devastador’ cu publicacionnan alrededor of world because; if fuera cu we do not one country in kingdom. joran van der sloot not have think of keep one orden of aresto. according informacionan ricibi, the sospechoso principal in caso of desaparicion of natalee holloway for of diabierna ultimo, is perdi y is sospecha cu the la bay sconde one caminda at thailand. debi at the sensacion rond of the transmision of the ultimo declaration of policy of the dutch peter de vries diadomingo on television dutch, husticia thailandes owing to wordo arise for of dream y owing to haci one peticion oficial at the netherlands via they embassy at the netherlands for achieve the imagenan of the declaration of policy. de vries owing to confirma at prensa dutch cu the material in cual joran is ofrece children thailandes for her world pornografico dutch, now is wordo traduci for her personal of embassy tailandes. have indicacion cu joran vd sloot will owing to arise candle for of bangkok for of diabierna end, on the day cu the news of the supuesto ‘agentenan secreto’ owing to leak. past owing to present at one party the night ey still, but after not owing to go back his cas more. one witness at thailand will owing to mire lever one plane for one sitio fast the costa of thailandia conoci because; koh samui. all the time the advocate of joran, de rooij is confirma cu the proceso cu his cliente is transcuriendo much lento y cu do not descarta cu his actonan can is castigabel according ley thailandes, for cual have one castigo of jail mara at dje. was diadomingo night cu one 3.5 miyon dutch owing to see the capitulo of the declaration of policy of de vries on television dutch. this is less person cu owing to look at the episodio of natalee holloway where cu had just doble of the televidentenan, esta one 7 miyon y half more. during the declaration of policy, is see con two dutch is happen for is hendenan of the low world at the netherlands y cu they will try convence joran vd sloot of cuminsa one business of traficacion of muher for fungi because; prostituta at the netherlands. the is one declaration of policy cu is show joran vd sloot papiando cu the personanan here at thailandia, y after at end, in one combersacion telefonico cu de vries, where cu the ultimo here is mustre cu once more owing to grab vd sloot. vd sloot is desmenti all cos y is calling de vries for a much tristo y loco. come across

EURobert - there are some great maps and photographs related to the Merian/Simian story back in the Shango thread.  By the way, Shango and Simian are not the same person.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MISC5/EdmondCroesLipstick.jpg)

Edmond, that shade is not for you!   ::MonkeyShocked::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I don't know how the lipstick got all over the picture,  I don't remember it being like that when I saved it!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks again SS! Again, if these things are true, that's sickening!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I'll look at the Shango thread again first thing tomorrow; do you have an advice (or some links maybe) to interesting points in the threads?

Thanks in advance!

Night all!

I was wondering about this myself. 

Hmmmmm.

I hope he`s arrested in Thailand and the`ve decided to keep it quiet.
They can keep you in detention there for 1.5 year before even go to trial  ::MonkeyEek::

http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/

Suspects coke line longer

ORANGE CITY - The fifteen suspects who were arrested Tuesday on suspicion of smuggling cocaine from Aruba to the Netherlands, remain at least eight more days. In the Netherlands is now a suspect arrested on Aruba to be transferred.

The suspects that Tuesday during a large-scale action by the Aruban, Dutch and Curaçao authorities have been extracted, were yesterday bringing up to the court commissioner. They agreed to the request of the Public Prosecutor (OM) to the gang to hold longer. Among the suspects is also an Aruban customs official that caused the gang catering trolleys where the drugs hidden Saturday by plane to the Netherlands could carry.

The Aruban OM speaks of an "excellent police and judicial cooperation within the Kingdom." The investigation of the Forensic Cooperation Team (RST), which since February this year, his total of 160 persons involved. The investigation revealed not only the extensive smuggling of hard drugs to the Netherlands. In the Netherlands was also a significant number of people who identified themselves with imports and distribution of the drugs on the Dutch market was busy, said the PPS.

Those persons during the action Tuesday in the Netherlands held by the National Forensics. On Curaçao by the local RST carried out a search, which records have been seized. The OM of Aruba in connection with these actions closely with the National Prosecution Service in Rotterdam and the prosecutor in Curacao.

On Aruba to search 15 places involving the RST was assisted by a large number of detectives of the Aruba Police Corps. Because three suspects with the arrest team had to be held, assistance is requested from the Curaçao arrest team.

This cooperation is not unique; the Aruban arrest team, by similar actions in the neighboring island assistance. In house searches include laptops, mobile phones, a large amount of cash, a gun, cocaine and cars confiscated. The seized cocaine had a street value of around 750,000 euros (1.7 million florin). (Amigoe)

McDonalds

Very early on, there was talk that Paulus was seen making two withdrawals at the ATM, by McDonalds.   Knowing what we do now, I'm not so sure Paulus and Joran didn't try to cover for the possiblity of being seen at the ATM, by saying the pick up was McDonalds.  The 4 am probably changed to 11pm after Paulus spoke to Ruth, at the bank.  The video and transaction were probably covered. Too bad Ruth died. IMO

Dr. Phil / Kalpoe

New document filed:

11/14/2008 Objection Document
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil

Case number:  BC363201

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/doc111208a.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/doc111208b.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/doc111208c.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/doc111208d.jpg)

If I'm following -- the Kalpoes are trying to re-submit a "copy" of the infamous Skeeter DVD. What a bunch of crap!!!!

Does this sound like the K2 requested and received an original for analysis and returned a copy??

Who is Jessica Lesniewski?  Maybe she did an analysis on a substituted DVD?

Thanks Klaas.

Found it.  She's a lawyer in Cremer law firm.

OT
Tea Fire on Santa Barbara coast is still raging

Peter Fimrite,Kevin Fagan, Chronicle Staff Writers

Friday, November 14, 2008
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/14/MN8V144NUS.DTL

Over 100 homes have been burned.

Hi to all Monkey Friends,

I am not MIA but in a Mission, a Lot of loose ends has been tied now and ends that were false has been cleared,

1. Cover for Daddy. He is now blackmailing Daddy for Money. Daddy is in a locked checkmate.

On the Night in Question, after all was over,

2. Their decision after no solution was found on how to get rid of the body, Joran begin to cut it in peaces,

part of the body was trown near the shark area.

3. The rest was burried in several location.

4. the pond is also a burial place and the part of the body is in the pond with the sneaker......


on the Gielen movie, it is being reviewed by people that where there on the day of her Arrival.. This is to compare timeline...There is a key person that can veryfied the timeline....he was there on site...from the getgo.


Almost done with the puzzel...


remember, keep up the research work and never give up.


CAPS




3. several location on the Island

Hi Caps…I don’t think any of us here will give up. We are all on a mission to find Justice for Natalee.

The break in at the Fisherman’s Huts was discussed recently. Knives were stolen and the rumour went around that Steve Croes had something to do with it. The timing of Simian’s post had much to do with this IMO.

I believe that Natalee’s body was moved several times. Where does your post leave your theory about the Crypts?

Thanks in Advance as Always.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #773 11/09/08 thru
« Reply #960 on: November 14, 2008, 05:30:44 PM » Johan

Yes but when she died in the matt apts why hiding in a pond ?
Or was Joran full with blood ? And he washed himself in that pond ?

Johan...what time do you think they were at the Matty?

TIA

i think about 1.30

what is that behind the Matt Apts  a car junk yeard ?

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/LDEN-3kopie.jpg)

Thanks...According to David Kock they made another stop after C&Cs.  What time do you have them leaving C&Cs?

TIA

Caps…What can you tell us about EcoTech draining the pond looking for Jose Tromp?  TIA

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #773 11/09/08 thru
« Reply #949 on: November 14, 2008, 04:25:20 PM » SS   
________________________________________
EURobert - I don't know where to begin, but I'll try.  If I leave anything out will other monkeys please jump in and add information?

Caps started posted on the front page and then on NAH.  He started talking about things related to Shango and it was suggested that he take this information to the Shango thread.  So, we all invaded Lala's corner of the world and started to work on the cryptic posts of Merian Ernest aka Simian aka Armin Solognier.  After a lot of digging and research, we came up with the story that Merian was trying to tell.  We have no idea if the story is really what happened, but a lot of pieces do make sense.

Urine and the Alpoes drugged Natalee at C&Cs.  They put her in the car and took her to the Matty Apts. which are across the street from Manserat Pond and next to the Lion's Den.  Urine and his friends were involved in porn videos and Natalee had become their newest victim.  Reportedly they had done this twenty times before and preferred to victimize American tourists on their last night in Aruba.  We were given the names of those at the video and gambling party which included Urine, the Alpoes, Freddy, Guido, Lorenzo, Julia Renfro, Chemaly, and Briezen.  There are more names and there was a report of a fight between Urine and someone Natalee might have known from earlier in the week.  They had a video connection in the US.  There was also talk of prostitution involving Urine, local girls, and Julia.  Something happened and Natalee died or was killed.  We don't know what happened after she died or where she was initally placed, but we were told that she was moved several times.  It is possible that she is currently in a crypt at the Masonic cemetery.  We also learned the names of various government officials who assisted in the coverup and the disposal of the body.  These names included Paulass, Voking, and DTKM.  DTKM is supposedly the mastermind of the coverup.  We have no idea if any of this is factual.  While we were working on the Merian posts, information about the contents of the cage was released.  We were told by OceanExplorer that ALE removed the contents of the trap in January, a few weeks after they were found.  We have also been told that things were found when the pond was drained, but ALE also denies any of this.  We were told that the Manserat Pond was drained based on the witness statements.  TES had used side scan radar to study the bottom of the pond and recommended that the pond be drained.  Supposedly 40-50 Dutch forensic experts arrived to examine the pond. but ALE denies this.  Try to read the research portions of Shango/Simian because more details are there.


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #773 11/09/08 thru
« Reply #955 on: November 14, 2008, 05:04:36 PM » EURobert

Thanks a lot SS! It would have taken me weeks to go through all of the Jango/Simian threads and be able to distillate this story from it.
But what a story! How plausible is it do you think? If this really happened - including the cover up - it would be absolutely shocking.

I have to read it a couple of times more and let it sink in a bit.

What do the others think of this version of the story?




Re: Natalee Case Discussion #773 11/09/08 thru
« Reply #963 on: November 14, 2008, 05:50:46 PM » EURobert

Well, WHEN this story is true, especially the structural abuse of american girls and the pornvids, I can understand that there's a cover up: if such a story came out that would absolutely ruin the 'One happy island'-image of Aruba for many, many years. Well, WHEN this story is true, especially the structural abuse of american girls and the pornvids, I can understand that there's a cover up: if such a story came out that would absolutely ruin the 'One happy island'-image of Aruba for many, many years.




Re: Natalee Case Discussion #773 11/09/08 thru 11/14/08
« Reply #978 on: November 14, 2008, 06:48:11 PM » SS

EURobert - I don't think any of us know if the Merian/Simian story is correct.  Parts of it are very similar to Shango's cryptic version of events.  We do know that there are big holes in the story.  For instance, there is no discussion of Steve Cores in Merian/Simian, but perhaps that is because Steve Croes is a cousin of Armin Solognier and both of them are nephews of the former Chief of Police, Rufo Solognier, who supposedly was assigned the task of cleaning the Matty Apts. of evidence.  Shango, on the other hand, protects Freddy.  We did learn a lot about the under belly of Aruba and some dubious characters while we were researching the clues.  The porn video information seems to be a correct scenario with that group as does prostitution, but we have no proof that Natalee was actually part of it.  There is some very deep corruption on that island.  We discovered some relationships like Chemaly and Freddy Zedan probably being cousins from Venezuela, and of course, we had already learned that Lorenzo is likely Joran's half-brother.  Some of the monkeys have questioned whether some of the people named in the plot actually exist or are possibly an alias or diversion.  We learned of some possible very deep involvement by Julia, that just makes my skin crawl after what she did to Beth.  One thing that I think we did learn was that the beach story is probably not true.  If you have some time, do go back and read through the threads - it will be very enlightening.



EURobert…Personally I don’t agree with much of this theory or Caps’ findings on the Miriam Ernest, Simian or Shango posts.

I have an index of the Shango threads or most of it and if you post what you would like to check further on I can find the discussions for you.  

I feel sick after Caps's revelations, although I have suspected for a long time that dismemberment could have been likely.  Urine van der Sloot is an animal and the heinous truth about Natalee's disappearance has to be revealed. 

Map showing location of McDonalds and distances.

I think this is Shizaru's site?  Go to Maps...Joran's walk home...Thanks!

http://www.hollowaycase.com/

Hmmmmm.

Whose arrival?  Gielen, Natalee, Beth?

Hope the "key person"s name is not Alberto.   ::MonkeyConfused::

I am absolutely amazed.  Less than one week after Joran van der Sloot was exposed on Dutch television for arranging prostitution and human trafficking in Thailand, there are only six members of SM and five lukers on this thread at 9:00 AM on a Saturday morning.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

I am sure that this has been answered before...
How many McDonals's are on the island?
I know there is one near the high rise hotel area (and restaurant, formerly called Texas de Brazil).
Is there another one (or two) closer to the Sloot home?
Thanks in advance.

I'm in lurking mode. I have been searching for more info but it seems there is a joran blackout!

SS I would have been here more often but honestly have been working around the clock this week - I think those of us still lucky enough to have a corporate job have little time for anything else lately - sigh !

I can't even think of dismemberment for if that were true, then couch that against the Paulus and Anita road show with tears and protestations but then running man's sweating might finally be explained in full ????? Grotesque is the only word that comes to mind.

I fear I don't hold out much hope for Thailand to do much against urine-head, but I also emailed NOW who has been heavily involved in publishing and evangelizing the horrors of human trafficking globally. At the end of the day, does the Dutch government truly care? I'm not convinced that they do.

Joran blackmailing DaddySloot for money?
Body cut in pieces?

Some of us have thought this, but, WOW, hearing it as possible factual scenario really drives home the ruthlessness and sheer disregard for one's human life by Joran and company. Let me say again - WOW.

Makes ya wonder if the painted rocks served as a chopping block, of sorts...

JMO, but I don't think so.

nonesuche - I sadly fear that you could be correct.  I do believe that the details of Natalee's demise are most likely so shocking and the coverup so deep, that they all want it to just go away.  For this reason, we need to keep Natalee's face right there in front of them.  We need to continue biting at their heels until there is justice.

Hi Buckshot…I only saw 2 listed, but really didn’t check into it very much.  I have been interested in the one by the movie theaters and following a time-line connected to that for earlier in the night.

So good to see you, Caps.
You should check in a little more often so that we don't worry.
It is hard to think of them chopping Natalee up.  I guess I would
just rather not go there. 

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/joran-van-der-sloot-man-without-country-part-ii

Joran Van der Sloot--A Man Without a Country Part II
by Michelle Says So | November 14, 2008 at 02:12 pm | 113 views | add comment | 0 recommendations
 
by Michelle Says So
 
by Michelle Says So
 slideshow view all 4


Click HERE for original story-- Joran Van der Sloot--A Man Without a Country"


Three strikes, you're out, Joran.

After to secretly confessing that he was complicit in the demise of Natalee Holloway, he is considered "persona non grata" in Aruba; there is a bounty on his head in the Netherlands, and now he has infested Thailand.


Peter de Vries, Dutch Crime Reporter


Don't ever throw wine in a man's face and think you'll get away with it. 

Yes, that is what Van der Sloot did to Dutch crime reporter, Peter de Vries.  A year ago after being interviewed by de Vries on Dutch television, Joran realized he was being set up right before the world wide revealing videos of him confessing to Natalee Holloway's death under secret cameras.

Full glass of wine in the face of a professional reporter.  De Vries must have been thinking, "This boy needs a lesson." He's been on Joran's trail ever since.

It was reported last week that de Vries again secretly recorded Joran in Bangkok engaging Thai women for sex trade to the Netherlands.  He discussed how they would get identification and work permits.  He told them they'd have to "...shake your ass."  "You dance 10 hours a day".   

In an interview with Telegraaf de Vries stated, "The pictures show how little respect this 21-year-old has for the lives of others. The fact that he goes into the trafficking of women after the disappearance of Natalee is typical of him… Making preparations for people smuggling is a crime. It could land him into big problems in Thailand."

Before de Vries aired his latest bombshell last Sunday night on Dutch TV, Joran allegedly contacted de Vries and said "they were all lies", and threatened him.  He said he would "teach him a lesson....at no cost." 

One day in Bangkok, the next on the run somewhere along the Thailand island borders. 

According to Nancy Grace, Joran was found on the Thai coastal city of Ko Samui and arrested late this week.  Currently, there have been no further reports released that have resulted in Van der Sloot's arrest. 

Unfortunately, there may be some loopholes for Van der Sloot. 

Interpol has not been hard on Thailand in regards the problem of human trafficking,  forced prostitution and child exploitation.  As a result, the Thai government is not hard on sex trafficking.  It has been noted that some of government officials "dabble" into it once in awhile.  It is a billion dollar industry...it counts for more revenue than the distribution of drugs. 

There are reports of local government officials who are complicit in trafficking. (2006 US Department of State Human Rights Report.) Since the September 2006 military coup, Thai government efforts to combat trafficking remain uncertain.

The Thai Government was placed in Tier 2 in the 2007 U.S. Department of State’s Trafficking in Persons Report for not fully complying with the Trafficking Victims Protection Act’s minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking but making significant efforts to do so.

http://www.humantrafficking.org/countries/thailand

Officers in charge of enforcing the law, particularly immigration police do not take the matter seriously, or fail to take immediate action against violators. (Senator Keerana Sumawon, Sirinya Wattanasukchai, "Flesh trade shrugs off new risks," The Nation, 1 May 1997)

Women from Thailand are trafficked particularly to the Netherlands... ("Trafficking of Women to the European Union: Characteristics, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women, (June 1996), IOM, 7 May 1996) and (CATW - Asia Pacific, Trafficking in Women and Prostitution in the Asia Pacific)

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/thailand.htm

Since Joran did not seem to be "coercing" or forcing these young women to come with him, it's possible he could get away with another heinous crime.

He learned from someone to use the right words, talk the smart game--make it so they were coming "willingly".  That itself may get him out of this mess.

Hopefully the Thai government will use some sense and see that this scum is arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of Thai law.

If we can get a "round two" with OJ and seeing him  go to prison for a different crime, I see it fitting for Joran as well.

Karma can be a real bitch.


http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com



Joran's Latest Secretly Recorded Tapes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCN9296ImkY

Mum, I remember reading that the McDonald's near the hotels has closed
and they have built another one in a differend location.

11/15/08 Awe Mainta Page 2

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MiscNews3/11152008AweMaintaAHATAletter.jpg)

Good morning monkeys,

CAPS - Good to see you.  Joran squeezing his Dad for cash sounds about right, although I think they are mutually dependent on each other for silence.

MUM - thanks for the pointers to those maps.  I have seen them, but needed to pointed back.  They are great.

JOHAN - Your alternative theory about why Joran may have been in the pond, washing off blood, is something I had not considered.  Guess I didn't want to.

I know we are all missing Carpe these days, but I must say that CAPS' post goes along with much of Carpe's work regarding the painted rock area.

It would certainly help Natalee's cause if Joran could be detained in Thailand for a while.  I'm sure the ARUBA  MOB is working hard to make sure that doesn't happen.  They must stay pretty busy with Joran's relocation program.  I wish PRDV's special had contained some information on Paulus, the man with the invisible background.  Paulus is the key.

Thanks Magnolia...Thought Jonathon's map would have been of the one referred to in 2005...No clue really though...LOL

Maybe Rob or Hotshot can chime in as they have been there..to Aruba I mean!

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/10/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE

Joran Van Der Sloot Taped in Thai Sex Trade Deal

Aired November 10, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the sudden disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip to Aruba. Aruban police claim they can`t or won`t make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot. Even after a Dutch crime reporter taped months of high-tech secret surveillance proving what happened the night Holloway vanishes, Aruban courts let Van Der Sloot walk free.
But tonight, caught on tape, judge`s son Van Der Sloot is busted, preying on unsuspecting women, attempting to lure them into the sex trade between Thailand and his birthplace, the Netherlands. Van Der Sloot reported to make up to $13,000 per female recruit. Tonight, we have the photos. Will the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway finally end up behind bars?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it was an accident, I mean, I`m sure -- I really truthfully feel that he gave her some kind of drug, but -- and then, you know, if something happened to her, why not be a man and just say, Look, this happened and -- but I knew when they wouldn`t help us come look for her the next day and he goes out and starts hiring attorneys and everything that there was something bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A former suspect in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway has allegedly been caught on tape recruiting Thai women to work in the sex industry in Europe. A sting operation set up by crime reporter Peter De Vries allegedly shows Van Der Sloot attempting to arrange young women to come to the Netherlands. The sting was broadcast on Dutch TV and also reportedly showed Van Der Sloot receiving $1,000 cash for arranging the transaction. Van Der Sloot was confronted by De Vries and denied any wrongdoing. But he did make sure to thank the reporter for the $1,000 cash.

BETH TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: Talking about her like that, my gosh, he just -- you know, first you want to come through the TV and I want to kill him, I mean, pull the skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee. And look what he`s done to his friends. Look what he`s done to a country. Look what he`s done to everyone.

**********

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway. Tonight, caught on tape, the prime suspect, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, preying on unsuspecting women to lure them into the sex trade between Thailand and the Netherlands. Will he finally go to jail? And how`s Daddy going to get him out of this one?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER DE VRIES, DUTCH TELEVISION REPORTER: Until now, Joran always denied that Natalee died in his presence. And now he confessed that and he told what he did with the body, and he told how he came home, what he did with the shoes. It`s the complete story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot, a former suspect in the case of missing teen Natalee Holloway, has allegedly been caught on tape arranging for Thai girls to come to Europe to work in the sex industry. Dutch crime reporter Peter De Vries set up a sting operation on Van Der Sloot. De Vries`s associates allegedly got to know Van Der Sloot and claimed they were interested in bringing Thai women to the Netherlands. Van Der Sloot is shown meeting with De Vries`s men at a hotel room in Bangkok, Thailand, along with two young Thai women. Later, Van Der Sloot was allegedly shown accepting a large cash advance from one of the men, reportedly in the range of $1,000. When confronted by De Vries, Van Der Sloot denied any wrongdoing.

DE VRIES: I was shocked by the way -- by the disrespect he talked about Natalee. He called her a (DELETED) and things like that.

GRACE: He called her a (DELETED). He called her a (DELETED) for absolutely no reason. This girl had a sterling reputation.

DE VRIES: Yes. And he`s showing no remorse at all. He`s telling that he didn`t -- didn`t lose one second of sleep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us right now, Deborah Pugatch with CNN affiliate WBMA. What`s the latest?

DEBORAH PUGATCH, WBMA PRODUCER: What`s the latest, Nancy? Well, I`ll tell you this. What I do know from a Dutch contact of mine who`s a reporter over there is that Joran Van Der Sloot says he did nothing wrong. But according to Peter De Vries, he says he caught him undercover, trying to get young Thai women to go to the Netherlands to go into the prostitution ring. That is illegal and -- according to Dutch prostitution law, that is illegal. Prostitution is legal in the Netherlands, but that is not.

GRACE: Out to Jossy Mansur, owner and director of "Diario" magazine. Jossy, it`s great to be with you again. What do you know about these latest charges against Joran Van Der Sloot?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, what I understand is that he did violate the law, both in Thailand and the Dutch law, and that he can be prosecuted for that.

GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer. Rupa, exactly what is alleged happened?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, Joran Van Der Sloot was caught on tape, on a videotape, secretly taped by a journalist, Peter De Vries. And he walked into a hotel room with two young Thai women to meet two of De Vries`s men, who were posing as Dutch sex trade bosses.

GRACE: Hold on. Here you are seeing the shot. There are many of them. Investigative reporter Peter De Vries hosts a program allegedly showing Van Der Sloot, suspect in the Holloway case, setting up a sex trade operation between Thailand and Europe. "Good Morning America" has purchased the rights to this video. Go ahead, Rupa.

MIKKILINENI: Well, as you see in this video -- it`s a very grainy video, and they`re sitting around and having drinks and they`re discussing potentially bringing these women somehow, illegally, legally, illegally -- it`s very confusing. He discusses a three-month visa, says he can, you know, formulate some type of false documents that could get these women into Holland to work temporarily. He offers $15,000 or some such amount to pay for these women. These women indicate, Look, we`re not sure. You know, We`re students. This is very tricky. What will we have to do? And then he says that all that it would require is dancing.

GRACE: I believe his words were, Shaking your" -- an expletive -- in front of men, talking to them, sitting down and having a drink with them, and as if they`re going to be models, having your photos taken while you`re dancing.

MANSUR: Yes. That`s correct.

GRACE: OK. Now, you said the women were students. What did he promise the women? What were they to get paid?

MIKKILINENI: Well, in the videotape, he indicates $15,000. He doesn`t say whether that`s for the entire three months, for what amount of work, but he does say that you`ll be working -- they`d be working from 5:00 PM to 5:00 AM. This is a 12-hour day. We`re talking six-day weeks, possibly.

GRACE: With me right now exclusively, Natalee Holloway`s father, Dave Holloway. Dave, it`s great to hear your voice again. Can you believe it? It`s like a bad penny turning up again.

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: It`s absolutely disgusting that this guy is involved in something like this.

GRACE: When did you first learn of the charges?

HOLLOWAY: I learned of the potential video sometime last week, but I wasn`t aware of what the extent of it was.

GRACE: What do you make of it?

HOLLOWAY: I tell you what, I hope the Thailand police do their job and get this guy. He needs to be taken off the streets.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, international law attorney Theodore Simon out of Philadelphia, child advocate Susan Moss, Lauren Lake, defense attorney out of New York, Alex Sanchez also a veteran defense attorney out of New York.

To Susan Moss. Weigh in, Susan.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: First, Natalee is dead and now he`s selling Thai women for bread, and it`s all on tape. Joran is a moron, and luckily, now he`s going to be brought down by his own hubris, his own greed and his own words.

GRACE: To Theodore Simon, international law attorney joining us from Philadelphia. Come on, we`re talking about Thailand. It is the capital of the sex trade business in the world. Like they`re going to bust Joran Van Der Sloot?

THEODORE SIMON, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: Well, it`s hard to say. I mean, what we`ve seen briefly is a tape, only words. We haven`t seen any objective evidence. And the last time Mr. De Vries produced a tape, it was rejected by the Aruban courts when they failed to reopen his case...

GRACE: Theodore...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Theodore, if these allegations...

SIMON: He, you can call me Ted.

GRACE: Mr. Simon, if these allegations are correct, will he be prosecuted in Thailand or not~!

SIMON: Well, it`s certainly possible, if the allegations are true. I think we`re a far cry from whether or not the allegations turn into any kind of objective proof.

GRACE: You know what? Before I throw a stone at Thailand, Eliot Spitzer got nothing and he is caught by the feds with hookers. So you know, I guess I shouldn`t trash Thailand too much. But what I`m trying to say, Mr. Simon, is if these allegations are true and it is true that he is preying on unsuspecting young women, students, as a matter of fact, promising them $15,000 to be models and they turn out to end up in the sex trade, stuck in another country with no way back home, will Thailand consider that a crime and prosecute him?

SIMON: Well, I think you`re adding many, many facts that may not be - - may only be fiction.

GRACE: OK, you know what? Maybe you didn`t hear the beginning of the question -- if the allegations are true. You`re the international lawyer.

SIMON: Right.

GRACE: Will that be a crime in Thailand? It`s a yes/no question!

SIMON: Well, you know, it`s a big if. If someone commits a crime, they`ll be prosecuted.

GRACE: Oy!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DE VRIES: Oh, yes, I`m pretty convinced by that because it was not a slip of the tongue, what he did. He told -- he did a full confession on tape not once, not twice, but more than 10 times. And he did it -- there were some days between it. They were very detailed. And so I`m convinced that he told the truth. Until now, Joran always denied that Natalee died in his presence, and now he confessed that and he told what he did with the body, and he told how he came home, what he did with his shoes. It`s the complete story.

Patrick (ph) was asking him, How can you be so sure that Natalee was dead? And then he said, Well, I wasn`t. She was just not moving anymore. She wasn`t kicking anymore. And so I thought she must be dead. And then he dumped her into the ocean. And yes, that`s really shocking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, he`s back. The prime suspect in the disappearance of Alabama beauty and honor student Natalee Holloway is allegedly right in the middle of the international sex trade -- that`s right, caught on grainy surveillance video actually trying to recruit, according to allegations, young students, female students, promising $15,000, I believe it was a week, to model back home in the Netherlands, his birthplace.

We are taking your calls. To Mary in California. Hi, Mary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first I want to tell you my family thinks you`re wonderful and your babies are beautiful.

GRACE: Thank you very much. I am blessed. I am blessed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you are. My question is, does anybody know if Natalee`s mother is going to go to Thailand to look for her?

GRACE: Interesting question. To Dave Holloway. This is Natalee`s father. Is Beth or anyone else in the family going to Thailand? Is there any suggestion that Natalee could be alive in Thailand?

HOLLOWAY: No. The first tape that Peter De Vries did back in January had indicated that Joran Van Der Sloot disposed of her, or had some help disposing of her at sea. This part about the prostitution ring came up in that tape, where, apparently, Joran wanted to get involved in a -- another activity, and that activity was prostitution. So this was...

(CROSSTALK)

HOLLOWAY: ... he wanted to get involved in, and now he did.

GRACE: Let me get this straight. Everybody, with us exclusively tonight, Dave Holloway. This is Natalee`s father. Refresh my recollection, Dave. Are you saying, in the original Peter De Vries tape, that Joran Van Der Sloot -- this is hours and hours, taken over weeks of surveillance inside a high-end SUV of Joran Van Der Sloot -- he said at that time he wanted to get into another enterprise?

HOLLOWAY: Yes. The first one was the growing and selling of marijuana, and then the other was this prostitution-type ring, so there was two of those type of activities that he wanted to get into. And then as time went on, he had met a friend in Thailand or over there (INAUDIBLE) or whatever, and he approached this friend about making this enterprise come true.

GRACE: Enterprise. You mean prostitution.

HOLLOWAY: Prostitution.

GRACE: You know, in one of the articles, some of the research I was reading, they called it the Dutch sex industry entrepreneur. Translation in this country, a pimp. I wonder what his daddy has to say tonight, Dave Holloway.

HOLLOWAY: Yes, it`ll be hard for him to get him out of this one.

GRACE: The judge.

HOLLOWAY: That`s right. And in that TV show last night, there was one witness who also had implicated Paulus. His involvement was a lot more than what we had originally thought.

GRACE: And there`s the best shot of Paulus Van Der Sloot, the judge, running from questions about Natalee missing. I`ll never forget the shot of his backside running down a dark alley.

Back to Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer. Where is he believed to be now? I thought he was in college in the Netherlands. What happened to that?

MIKKILINENI: Well, Natalee (SIC), apparently, after he was studying in the Netherlands, Peter De Vries`s first videotape came out, and it caused such havoc with his life -- apparently, he was worried for his life -- and so he disappeared off the face of the earth for a while.

GRACE: Translation, dropped out of school?

MIKKILINENI: Yes.

GRACE: So he dropped out of school. Do we know if that`s his decision or did the school throw him out?

MIKKILINENI: We believe he dropped out. It`s a little bit uncertain, but he actually disappeared. He didn`t show up in Aruba. He wasn`t in Holland. We don`t know where he was. And then he suddenly turns up in Thailand a few months later.

GRACE: Thailand. Now, I wonder why Thailand? To Jossy Mansur, owner and managing director of "Diario" magazine. Jossy, what was he allegedly saying on the tape to the young women?

MANSUR: He was offering them a job as models in Holland, and in truth, he was trying to coax them into prostitution -- in other words, into the sex industries in Holland. That`s what I gather from the paper that I saw.

GRACE: Back to Deborah Pugatch from WBMA. Deborah, again, thank you for being with us. Has Van Der Sloot admitted to anyone else that we know of anything incriminating about Natalee Holloway?

PUGATCH: Well, what we do know is there is a new witness that was a part of Peter De Vries`s piece last night. The witness, who I`ve been told is named Celeste (ph), told Aruban authorities or Dutch authorities last week when they questioned her that Joran did tell her the same thing he told Peter (SIC) van der Eem in Peter De Vries`s first investigative report, that Natalee is nowhere, anyhow. I talked to Hans Mos, the chief Aruban prosecutor, and he confirmed that for me this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWITTY: When I hear Joran talking about her like that, my gosh, he just -- you know, first you want to come through the TV and I want to kill him, I mean, pull the skin off his face. And I think of the utter disregard he had for Natalee. And look what he`s done to his friends. Look what he`s done to a country. Look what he`s done to everyone. It`s just despicable what he has done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s hurt us tremendously and other families tremendously, and some innocent people of Aruba. He has no remorse, no -- a total disregard for anyone else except for himself, even his own family. And it`s just shocking to me that someone can do this. It`s just -- I`m still reeling from it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Kathy in Tennessee. Hi, Kathy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I have wondered from the very beginning is when the party boat captain came forward and seemed to delay the investigation -- I have often thought how far out could that party boat have gone without lights on so as not to be noticed, so someone waiting out there could have taken Natalee off of that party boat.

GRACE: To Jossy Mansur with "Diario" magazine. What about it? How far could they have gotten?

MANSUR: I don`t (ph) think they could have gotten that far, or they should have gotten far enough so that the body couldn`t wash back into the beach. But the party boat has sufficient power, motor, to go as far as the currents will do the job that they had in mind (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: And what would be the closest body of land to transport her?

MANSUR: It would be the beach right by the fisherman`s hut, by the Marriott Hotel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just hope that he comes clean. He`s got an account to settle, and I hope he settles it on this earth at this time. If he doesn`t, you know, God bless him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I gave already some investigations in the Natalee Holloway case in Aruba, and I was very intrigued by it and I thought, well, this was just terrible that this case is not solved yet. So then I said to myself, I have to do everything to solve this. That`s how it happened.

Yes. And he (INAUDIBLE) like that, because it was not a slip of the tongue what he did. He told -- he did a full confession on tape, not once, not twice, but more than 10 times. And he did it with some days between it. It was very detailed.

And -- so I`m convinced that he told the truth. Until now, Joran always denied that Natalee died in his presence and now he confessed that and he told what he did with the body and he told how he came home, what he did with the shoes. It`s -- the complete story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the police knew that she was not alive the second day. When he did the shaking thing in the video -- you know, they questioned Beth and I the first day, second day and then also question me two weeks later and they kept asking about the epileptic fits or, you know, that type stuff.

Well, you don`t ask that straight out of the box. I knew there was something funny. So they knew. I think Joran told them that probably something happened on the beach and she did this but Vonder Striden, you know, just probably wanted to cover his friend`s son`s butt and actually just got into it early on and then it just got deeper and deeper and snowballed and they just covered every track from then on so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Headline tonight, Joran Van Der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Alabama beauty and honor student, Natalee Holloway, has turned up again, this time on grainy surveillance video, reportedly soliciting young female students to become prostitutes, sending them back home to the Netherlands, basically, where they`d be stuck with no way back for about three months.

Again, we`re taking your calls live but right now take a look at the last time he was caught on tape. This is from ABC`s "20/20."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through translator): She`s just lying still?

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (Through translator): Still, still. She`s not doing anything. He says, what happened? I said, I don`t know either, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you try to resuscitate her?

VAN DER SLOOT: Of course. I tried everything, man. I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, what`s wrong with you, man? I almost wanted to cry. What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) happened? I said to him, this isn`t possible.

He took the body. He went far out, and he threw her over the side. Then he came back and docked his boat there. And he came by my house for a bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At night.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes. Then we talked for a bit and he says to me, you know, it`s all good. She`s going to be missing. They`re going to search but they`re not going to know a thing.

PATRICK VAN DER EEM (through translator): How were you so sure she was dead, Joran? You can`t, you know, people can also go into coma.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, I wasn`t sure about that but it really scared me to death.

VAN DER EEM: No, but I understand that. I definitely understand that, that you were scared. She really (INAUDIBLE).

VAN DER SLOOT: No, no. But it didn`t look good.

VAN DER EEM: How didn`t it look good then?

VAN DER SLOOT: Just, you know, she had been shaking and stuff.

VAN DER EEM: What, really shaking?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes. I don`t know. Yes. Pretty much.

VAN DER EEM: I`m asking you. How were you so (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sure she was dead, man?

VAN DER SLOOT: I wasn`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And even after that, still no arrest. That is video from ABC`s "20/20" of prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot seemingly more concerned about his own fate than the death of the American teen, Natalee Holloway.

We are taking your calls live. And with me right now exclusively, Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway. When you hear that, does your blood still boil?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Nancy, it -- does. You know, still -- it`s still tough even after three and a half years of hoping for the best and, you know, we see the worst. And it`s tough. It really is.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Theodore Simon out of Philadelphia, Susan Moss, child advocate in New York, Lauren Lake, defense attorney in New York, Alex Sanchez, also veteran defense attorney in New York.

So, Lauren Lake, on this latest alleged event, what`s your best defense?

LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`ll tell you what, Nancy. Even though we`re all sick of Joran, I mean, but for my defense attorney hat tonight I`m sick of him. The bottom line is not a lot of objective, incriminating evidence in this video and De Vries should know from the last try. We need more than that. OK. The taking of a thousand dollars...

GRACE: You mean more than somebody caught on tape?

LAKE: Yes. We need more than that. Look what happened the last time, Nancy. This guy is somehow eluding the law on every occasion. If they`re going to try to catch this guy they`ve got to nail him and right now I don`t think just this videotape and this thousand dollars is what we call nailing him.

GRACE: Speaking of catching the guy, Rupa, where is he?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Great question. It looks like last time Joran was seen in Thailand in Bangkok was at a party on Friday night. De Vries` documentary aired over the weekend and he`s disappeared. We think he`s left the country.

GRACE: So he`s gone from the Netherlands to Thailand to the Lord only knows where.

To Alex Sanchez -- Alex, the guy is reportedly caught on tape, arranging having these girls go to the Netherlands to act as prostitutes, luring them under the guise of being models, taking money for it. He`s even caught on tape thanking his benefactor for the money.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`ll tell you, this guy De Vries is Joran Van Der Sloot`s worst nightmare.

GRACE: Tell it.

SANCHEZ: In terms of -- in terms of a defense in this case.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I agree with you on that, Alex. But I don`t care who set him up. I don`t care how he was caught. He`s caught.

SANCHEZ: Well, that`s important. That`s important, though, because the person that set him up was De Vries.

GRACE: So?

SANCHEZ: And De Vries had set him up the first time around. And one begins to wonder whether De Vries has crossed the line and has gone overboard in trying to lure this kid into doing something that he did not intend on doing.

GRACE: You know what, Alex? Alex, if somebody came up to you and said, hey, I`ve got a plan. You talk young women, students into going overseas to be hookers and I`ll give you 15 thou per girl. You would run, run for the hills, as if you had seen a monster.

I mean, he`s not set up. He`s right there in it. And like Dave Holloway says, he`s caught on tape months before saying he wants to go into prostitution.

SANCHEZ: Then why, after speaking to De Vries, would he say thank you for the thousand dollars? It`s almost like he knew what was going on and he was out to trick De Vries who had previously tricked him.

GRACE: To Dr. Lisa Boesky, psychologist and author of "When to Worry," I`m not surprised that he made that smart comment when he was caught. What else could he say?

LISA BOESKY, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO WORRY": Well, remember, this is an arrogant young man. This is one of the most dangerous kind of offenders that are out there. They don`t look like thugs. They don`t look like the strangers that people have warned us about.

This is a good looking, manipulative, charming young man who is cold, callous, and arrogant. It`s not that he thinks law enforcement is stupid. He just thinks he`s smarter than them and he can avoid getting caught.

GRACE: Which he has managed to do so far before he went on the lamb.

Back to Rupa Mikkilineni. Rupa, apparently he has made an incriminating comment to another young girl on a beach.

MIKKILINENI: Yes. That`s correct, Nancy. According to De Vries` documentary, which was mentioned, there is a witness, a young woman that might have been a girlfriend of sorts and he made a comment that indicated he knew how to get rid of corpses from a beach.

GRACE: Do we know what his words were?

MIKKILINENI: I think we do. It`s -- who knows? You may now be on the beach with someone who`s able to get rid of a corpse.

GRACE: OK. Alex Sanchez, thoughts?

SANCHEZ: I think that`s a very troubling statement but if that is true.

GRACE: Very troubling.

SANCHEZ: . then how come the authorities don`t go to the grand jury with the tapes made in that car as well as this witness.

GRACE: You know what?

SANCHEZ: And obtain an -- an indictment?

GRACE: Susan Moss, why don`t they?

SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I don`t know. This guy is a walking felony. You know, certainly the expectation is, is that because somebody is trying to protect this guy because of his father`s stature but I -- I don`t know why.

GRACE: On the line, Sue in Maryland. Hi, Sue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi there, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless you and your family. I hope they keep you safe from all these monsters out there.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, isn`t it possible t to go to the Netherlands and find some of these girls and these prostitution rings that will also help?

GRACE: To John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies" what about it? Is that where we start this investigation?

JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": No. I don`t think so. It`s a needle in a hay stack when you try and go over to Thailand and try to find somebody like Natalee Holloway.

First of all, I believe, like Peter De Vries, and let me just say God bless Peter De Vries. People have said he tried to cross the line or he may have crossed the line. He did more than anybody to bringing this creature to light.

Everybody knows what -- he`s a serial predator, based on everything we know about him right now. There is nothing, and unfortunately Thailand is not going to do anything because they have a horrible track record, it`s crimes against children, and his own country is protecting him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it was an accident, I mean I`m sure -- I really truly feel that he gave her some kind of drug but -- and then, you know, if something happened to her, why not be a man and just say, look, this happened and -- but I knew when they wouldn`t help us come look for her the next day and he goes out and starts hiring attorneys and everything that there was something bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/fugitive.jpg)

Mum  I was going thru old stuff looking for someting (I have not yet found) but ran across this oldie post. Probably old news to you, but I wanted to make sure you saw it.





Tony:
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject:
________________________________________
Most people have no idea how big this case really is. In terms of who is involved and what has now been uncovered, there are some really big revelations about the island of Aruba and corruption on it.
Consider:
Money laundering and drug dealing on the island;
Within three years Aruba rose from a ‘medium risk’ to a ‘high risk’ country in the State Department’s annual International Narcotics Control Strategy Report. The island is used as a base for bulk transhipment of cocaine to the US and Europe, through its Free Trade Zone. Off-shore corporate banking facilities, the casino/resort complexes, high volume tourism, and a stable currency all make Aruba attractive to money laundering organizations.

USA today 6/14/2005
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-06-14-aruba-image_x.htm?csp=34
But the State Department’s 2005 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report notes that “while Aruba enjoys a low crime rate, prominent drug traffickers are establishing themselves sporadically on the island … drugs are easily found within walking distance of Oranjestad’s cruise pier and are frequently peddled to cruise ship tourists. The expanding use of (Ecstasy) in clubs by young people attracts increasing attention.”

These articles speak of the corruption on a 70,000 person island, a small island at that.

Now here are some interesting connecrtions;
Paulus Van Der Sloot is Jorans father, he is a judge in training and former employee for the prosecutors office in Aruba. His friend and associate is Ben Voking who was there when police arrived at PVS’ house to question him about Natallee. Ben and Paulus had previously also worked together on a case that was dismissed in favor of the defendent who alledged evidence tampering. They are close friends.
Here is a list of officials from the 1990s of officials in Aruba law enforcement:

Council of europe report on Aruba prison systems 1994-1995
http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/1996-27-inf-eng-1.htm#FACTS
APPENDIX II
LIST OF THE GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITIES AND PERSONS WITH WHICH THE CPT’s DELEGATION HELD CONSULTATIONS

A. Governmental authorities

Mr. J.H.M. Zwinkels - Attorney General

Mr. B. Vocking - Deputy Director, Aruba Correctional Institute

Ms. C. van den Berg - Head of the Rehabilitation and Child Welfare Council

Ms. Y. Spellen - Director, Guardianship Board

Mr. J. van de Straten - Head of the National Bureau of Investigations

Mr. L. Rasmijn - Police Commissioner

Mr. E. Bennet - Head of the Airport Immigration Authorities

Mr. R. Martus - Inspector of Police

Ms. A. Peterson - Department of Foreign Affairs Liaison officer to the CPT

B. Persons active in the CPT’s fields of interest

Mr. R. Oomen - Lawyer

This shows that Ben Vocking and Jan Van Der Straaten were working together 12 years before 2005 and knew each other very well. It is possible that if they are aware of more corruption than they would admit publicly.

I beleive that the island is too small to offer a non prejudicial investigation into Natalee Holloways disappearance. We need Queen Beatrix to intervene!!

Easywriter:
Table 2
 Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject:
 

________________________________________
As I mentioned earlier I asked about revealing a little more from an email conversation I had on May 18th and was told it was okay now, because the cat was already out of the bag.

**********************************

Are you still hopeful something positive something will come from this new witness you told me about last month?

Yes I'm hopeful that something will come of this new revelation. The witness is now in the hands of the authorities.

Remember he claims to have seen what happened to Natalee on the day she disappeared. He's told the police the exact same story he told me. I went to the spot where he claims the action took place and took some pictures. It is far removed from the Marriott beach and not too close to the Light House. it's on the beach, but near the extreme end of the north-west coast of the island. He pointed out to me the exact spot where the body was taken onto the water and left at quite a distance from the coast. Remember this is his story as an eyewitness. The police and KJ seem to think he is telling the truth.

Have you recieved any answers about the evidence you mentioned last month?

Don't know yet. One for sure is going to check out.

The part of coast where it happened is a relatively isolated place. I cannot reveal what else he told me because it would hinder the case the prosecution has to put together around this witness. He seems to be good for his word, but again, you never know.

If the second piece of evidence checks out, we have a solution to the case. Let's hope it does.

May I share this information?

Preferably not, until we have a better idea from KJ and the police. If you share this with anyone else, there will be a media rush and havoc will ensue. Let's try to wait a few days before sharing this information, please. I trust you completely and know I can count on your discretion for a little while more.

Will you let me know if anything comes of this, either good or bad?

Will definitely keep you informed. As a matter of fact, you'll be the first to have any news that we obtain at the paper.

You are Welcome Helen…Nice to see you back posting.

Caps’ theory takes away the Crypts for me, and I had thought that a plausible possibility.

Thanks Sharon...I have checked a few of Tony's posts. I believe he says he found a lot of the early pics or gave them to the media, something like that...LOL

Also was checking a little while back to see if Paulus worked for Zwinkels. Never finished...got sidetracked, again.

I need confirmation that Echo tech actually drained the pond.  Anyone?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27671057/


WVTM-TV
updated 7:17 a.m. ET, Wed., Nov. 12, 2008
birmingham, al - Joran van der Sloot- the main suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway - has disappeared amid new allegations about her case and alleged human trafficking. In a hidden camera investigation, a Dutch television crew caught van der Sloot on tape, allegedly trying to sell women from Thailand into Dutch prostitution rings. Van der Sloot allegedly pockets about $13,000 per girl. The 2-hour special aired Sunday in the Netherlands. According to Natalee’s father Dave Holloway, it further implicates both Joran van der Sloot and his father Paul, a powerful Dutch attorney, who was questioned by police several times concerning Natalee’s disappearance.  In the expose, Dutch crime reporter Peter de Vries interviews van der Sloot’s ex girlfriend Celeste. “The girlfriend speaks out and states that she feels like ...Joran’s father played a larger role. Joran admitted to this girl that there’s only one other person who knows exactly what happened {to Natalee} and obviously you realize he’s insinuating that that’s his father,” explains Dave Holloway. Holloway says during the expose, Celeste shares conversations and instant messages from van der Sloot. During the program, Celeste says van der Sloot told her his dad coached him extensively about what to say to police concerning Natalee. Celeste goes on to recount a conversation where van der Sloot told her he knew how to dispose of dead bodies so they’d never be found. Dave Holloway says he believes Celeste is telling the truth, but he doesn’t believe it will be enough to charge or convict van der Sloot of Natalee’s death. “As far as Aruba’s concerned, I doubt very seriously if they are going to do anything. It seems like every time you try to give them some information it’s discounted by the judges who are over this case,” says Holloway. So more than three years after his daughter vanished, Holloway is still left with unanswered questions and a myriad of emotions. “A lot of frustration. A lot of hurt and pain and a you still can’t get any justice or learn where Natalee is and that’s the hard part,” says Holloway. Thailand officials are now investigating van der Sloot’s alleged attempts to sell Thai women into prostitution. Van der Sloot left Thailand Friday after learning about the expose and hasn’t been seen since.  Click here for Peter de Vries website and video of his latest expose:  http://www.sbs6.nl/web/show/id=265668/langid=43 Click here for the Telegraaf’s article about van der Sloot’s disappearance and photographs of the expose: http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2423211/__Van_der_Sloot_hals_over_kop_huis_ontvlucht__.html?p=2,1 This is the literal English translation of the article, according to Google: Van der Sloot house fled pell-mell by Bert Houses AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot seems to be an arrest not to wait. The 21-year-old Dutchman, who lives in Thailand, since Friday without trace. The Thai justice by the enormous attention in our country and has shaken up directly through the embassy in our country the images obtained from the undercover operation by Peter R. de Vries, which was broadcast yesterday evening. De Vries confirmed yesterday that the footage, which Joran Thai girls offer for the Dutch sex industry, is now being translated by Thai embassy staff. Joran van der Sloot has probably Friday Bankgok leave immediately, on the day the news of the second undercover operation against him came out. He visited that night, according to witness another celebration, but no more turned back to his house. According to a Dutch witness, he ‘s night on a domestic flight to the island of Koh Samui for the Thai coast. The man proposes Joran on board the aircraft to have recognized. Joran’s lawyer, Mr. Bert de Rooij, revealed yesterday that the agreement with his client “but difficult” process. “I hope to quickly contact. We will first discuss whether it is wise to stay in Thailand. From what I hear it, there is not even a ruling for tenderness, regardless of whether there is evidence or not. This is something nobody in a cell controversy. ” Click here for the Telegraaf’s original story before the expose aired: http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2401897/__Joran_loopt_weer_in_val__.html?p=2,1 Click here for the English summary of the main article: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/11/holloway_suspect_trafficks_in.php

Hmmmmm.

You know. it takes a long time to dismember an animal.(Pig, Cow, Deer)
It takes really sharp knives and saws and special knowledge.
It is hard to believe that those nit wits could do such a thing.
And where could they have done such a messy job?
Maybe the bloody matress at the Sloots or the Sloot bathtub?
There would have been blood everywhere.

Ah! Found it.

All front page posts (didn't save links)

In light of CAPS recent post.....a sad stroll down memory lane with freycohen  ::MonkeyWaa::



'freycohen Says:

January 11th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
The Insider information that I heard that is it. Earlier on when the fish cage was stolen the the same night that Natalee was found missing. Dompig reported the incident to van der Statten, and the then police commissioner ignored the search for the protection of Joran. Joran at that time hided the big knife in his dad’s house. van der Statten told Beth that Natalee was dead and he saw the insider information in June. Joran chopped Natalee into two halves in the open sea and stuffed her body parts into the fish cage and weighted it down into the deep with some boating people. The big knifes were dumped into the landfill the following night. Natalee was killed at Sloot’s house. They never went to the lighthouse.'




freycohen Says:
January 12th, 2006 at 3:40 am

These are the leaks from the Cohen International Consultants group. Somebody higher made the decision so as to save Aruba from the onslaught of the boycott. These leaks were documented in the many stories that Joran him alone had confessed in his 90+ days in prison. Nobody took him seriously until now. They did find a deep cut in his left foot but never questioned him about it when he was given a new pair of tennis shoes in the prison. Yeah, it is gross for anyone to believe Natalee’s body was chopped up in the open sea. But nobody or the police ever intended to search for the boats. But believe me, Joran is animalistic, he could have done it. His flicker pictures journal can give you a feel about his contempt of human life, for example kissing and fondering of 15teen girls and slave choking of a 16teen naked boy with his belt. Just look at those pics, you will believe what he could have done. Joran can also make cocodile tears before the Smid judge and Anita mother to tell good stories about his innocence. The fishermen used the big knifes to untangle the big coral fish comining out from the fish trap cage. They just chopped their heads off to get the bodies out of the cage in the water. I think Joran learn that well. That’s why the big knifes were taken. Or it was Joran’s animalistic instinct to have to chop Natalee’s body up for his anger with Natalee for the fight for her survival. The police also ignored the scratches on Joran’s face at the International school that he pointed to himself about having sex with an American girl, where he said they were love bites to boost his conquer. The bones Tim Miller will find in the fish cage will certainly bear the knife cut wounds. They can also use the metal detectors to look for the big fish knifes in the landfill. This unsolved Natalee murder case is coming to a quick closure under the pressure of the boycott.



freycohen Says:
January 12th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
This is the only truth Dompig told so far under the international extreme pressure. The South American drug lords don’t want to be dragged into this mess. They need Aruba free trade zone for their drug trafficking. They want their good names. They never mudered innocent girls. The grave sites destructions serve as a stern warning to Dompig. He knows it by heart. He will leave Tim Miller alone and let Tim do his job of retrieving the fish cage and Natalee’s bones. And bring Natalee home to their parents.

Morning ... You have been saying that a lot lately!

Wasn’t it after the mattress was found that van der Straten said he thought that Natalee was no longer alive?

Recall something about a mattress on Joran’s apartment floor…didn’t he have a bed? or did they get rid of it?

Thanks Sharon...Interesting!

Any thoughts on if Caps' theory is true that they would a Crypt? TIA

Yep, the crypts seems plausible.  However, what was in that TRAP that Persistence located?

With the latest revelation by PRDV, it seems to me that Joran is very familiar with trafficking and prostitution, not just of prostituting himself.  I don't believe this is a new idea for him.  I believe Paulus is master of falsification of documents and we know that Rudy Croes has imported women for himself.  The exploitation of women is a common theme, with differing scenarios of kidnapping, porn movies and rape. 

It is common knowledge on the island, and confirmed by Jossy, that Joran has a known history of serial rape.  Yet Jan van der Stratten and the rest of the police department didn't seem to know anything about it.
I believe if we learn more about Paulus and the nasty old lions, Lorenzo, Julia, Paul Brough and Mr. Pink productions, we might see the puzzle more clearly.  I was really hoping PRDV was following that trail.

Mum - I wonder if parts were put into Jalitsa's crypt after Beth arrived and the heat was on???

For a long time we have been going back and forth about whether Natalee's remains are in the fish cage or the cemetery.  Perhaps, if what Caps has just told us, both locations could be correct.  Tim saw the skull in the cage and we saw the picture.  Caps tells us that he has information that Natalee is in the cemetery.  Unfortunately, both locations could be correct.

I think that the bloody mattress was found that first weekend after Natalee
disappeared.  It was immediately classified as insignificant.  That was the
first red flag to me.
I think one of the Kalpoes talked about having to sit on the floor in Joran's
apartment.

I am lurking. BUT I always come to Natalee first EVERY day.  I have kept up to date on all the goings on of this vile human being.

Goodmorning Monkeys,

Anybody knows where this Masonic cemetery is located?   TIA ::MonkeyWink::

I do not know how to spell it, it is in Oranstead.....sp???

Was it ALE who determined that the blood on the mattress was from a dog?  Did the FBI ever make a comment?  Did we ever know the size of the mattress?  Would the mattress have fit the bed in Urine's apartment or possibly the bed in the Matty Apts.?

Interesting, EcoTech, a waste management company, is owned by Meta Corp.  ATCO Aruba is associated with EcoTech.

METACORP

MetaCorp is an Aruba-based holding company since 1920, which has been active on Aruba in almost all fields of expertise, owning two Renaissance hotels, two Casinos, two Shopping Centers, a Convention Center, a Marina, a Theatre, a Cinema and a Private Island.

As a holding it boasts an array of other different companies that are related to or owned by MetaCorp.

Some other companies:
 Balashi Beer (the only beer brewed on Aruba)
 Coca-Cola factory
 ICS - Intermodal Container Services (Representative
  of Mearsk Line and P&O)
 ECOTECH (Waste management)
 ATCO (Container hauling, heavy equipment and concrete)

MetaCorp is now extending its companies (ICS and ATCO) in Curaçao with another Renaissance Resort & Casino, with two Shopping Malls (including the Rif Fort Festival Plaza and Shops), a Parking Garage, a Private Beach and Cinema. This is the most beautiful upcoming project. It's the jewel before entering the natural harbor and the first sight arriving from the cruise ships on the Mega Pier. MetaCorp has turned its eyes to the future and broadened its horizons on Curaçao, with prospects for upcoming projects in the Dutch Antilles.

Please also visit the websites of our subsidiary companies:

Renaissance Aruba Resort & Casino
Renaissance Mall & Marketplace
Intermodal Container Services
Ecotech Aruba & ATCO Aruba
Balashi
Coca-Cola Aruba

http://www.renaissancecuracao.com/01b.html

I wish Kermit would hop on in for a minute and help us out.  Does Caps' recent post mean that his theory is not at odds with findings of the Persistence, and whatever Kermit knows?

TIA, Kermit.

These are up-to date maps, i think Mc D is still at the same location(near Wendy`s fastfood)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/bastibro/map002.jpg)
below gives an indication of distance
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/bastibro/map003.jpg)

You have probably seen this before but look at El Sol NACIENTE @113

We have been looking at an either/or scenario which would exclude the information from one source or the other.  Perhaps the answer is both.  Kermit has been indicating for a long time that we should focus on the fish trap, but that photograph looks like it could be a skull without the rest of the skeleton.

Interesting isn't it Pita....The other Marriott! Down near where Melody saw Joran that night before midnight.

Did you see that they also ship trash in container ships to Venezuela and Columbia?

Caps should be able to fill us in on the pond draining.

I come here first everyday also.These are the most disgusting animals I have ever witnessed ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hi A-1,  We have seen pictures of the Masonic cemetery and we know that it is somewhere in Oranjestadt, but I don't know if we have an exact street address for the location.

If she had been put in the cage ... and say the cage was anchored in the ocean, much like a "crab pot" ... and pulled up later ... would there really be the need for "disection" as stated in another post?  I mean ... couldn't he have left her until there was nothing but bones then "laid them to rest" (in his own sick, twisted way) ... in perhaps the cemetary?  There would be no decomp to deal with that way ..

It was ALE who made that determination, because a dead dog was found nearby.
No comment from the FBI that I ever heard.  I don't know that they were consulted.
From the pictures I saw of the mattress it like a double size.
From pictures of Joran's apartment, he had a double size mattress.
I have no idea what size beds the Matty Apts had.

I think that the Masonic Cemetery is a part of the large cemetery in Oranjestadt.
Just a special section of the main cemetery.  Back left corner if I remember.

There has always been something about 'no body, no case' that gave me the shivers and it sorta rules out the crypt in my mind.

And I am one of the folks that definitely sees 'things' in the white plastic bag  ::MonkeyWaa:: Although I can't really say that it is anything other than 'eerie'.

And the comment about the 'rocks' being the scene of 'preparation' has always been a possibility in my mind.

But then again -- it all fits so nicely, I'm pretty sure that it is exactly what someone wanted us to believe. So that makes it hard to believe.

Truth? Or the misinformation campaign?

So -- the body switch in the coffin has just as much merit.

Does anyone have the original crude translation from Paps of the witness statement that first appeared in Diario?  I could be incorrect, but I recall the original witness statement saying something about the color of red on Urine's shirt, but when we received a finished English translation of the article, the sentence said that Urine was wearing a red shirt.  We had discussions about a red shirt, because the witness statements indicated that he was wearing a blue and white shirt.  I think the original statement might have said something like sangria (sp) on the shirt.  I don't speak Spanish or Paps, so I accepted it as a red shirt when the final translation came out.

Good thought Invision.  I think we're looking at a possiblity that she was dismembered before the skull was placed in the trap and that parts of her remains were possibly put in other places, including the cemetery.

These thoughts are almost too difficult to think about.

I wonder what Joran and Paulus were looking for on the road that night when the witness saw them? 

Urine was so arrogant and confident is stating the Natalee will never be found.  Is this because he knows that her remains were put in numerous locations?

Can anyone refresh us on the human remains that were found near the rocks?

Please allow me to remind everyone that going in all these various directions only causes more confusion.  Stick with the devil you know and proceed outward fitting the pieces of the puzzle as you go.  Lay aside those parts that do not fit in case you want to come back to them later and stay focused on the ultimate goal.  Keep in mind that this goal may not be achievable at this time.

Have I confused everyone? 

YUP!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

What do we know?  What do we REALLY know?  I don't necessarily mean things that we can prove beyond reasonable doubt...I mean what do we know and can make an educated deduction that is most likely to be true????

Make a list...then put it in order and fit the pieces together.

Yes, I noticed that too, Mum!     ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hey Lala's,

Could you scooch over a little bit so I can look on your paper? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Was Natalee ever in the crab trap or was it something else that in there that was important?

Well, I messed that one up...nevermind.  Sit here.

Why did the pond get drained when no one was looking?  Keep in mind that there were those  that were working like crazy to get that pond drained for almost a month and all they could get was..."after this strike is over" comments.  Think about it....study on it.


Why did this pond get drained by this company?  Why would you be looking for the Tromp person in THAT pond when the only reason to drain it was because of a witness that claims to have seen JORAN and PAULUS in the area????  Think...people. What does that have to do with Tromp?

Why does Kermit keep going back to that crab cage? What was in the trap? What did Caps say it was used for?  Think.

Caps said it was a post office for drug drops.  In the picture, we saw what looks like a skull and a shoe.

Lala,  I am sure that you have already done that exercise.
Tell us what you found.
For the life of me I do not understand all of the clues
that lead to confusion,
I would like nothing more than to see this mess solved.
I hate them all!

ALE wasn't looking for anything in the pond that was connected to Tromp.  That was another one of their diversions.  Only a dozen people showed up to help TES search for Tromp.  They were looking for Urine's missing shoe in the pond and/or Natalee's body, because the early statements indicated that he had lost a shoe and the witness claimed that he was walking without one shoe.  If Joran had been in the pond, he was likely disposing of Natalee.  When TES scanned the pond, they obviously found something that appeared to be a shoe or something else, because they recommended that the pond be drained.  They drained the pond secretly, at night, because they didn't want anyone to know what they found.

I think if Natalee was ever in that pond, that company has shipped her to Venezuela or Columbia.

Side scanner saw something in that pond...back after FB...Go Bucks!

SS...the rocks ... a 7 year old boy - unidentified...June 5th...a 16 year old boy drowned...

Larry Garrison, MSM & Others Just Don’t Get It … You Are Never Supposed to be Part of the Story, You Report the Story

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/11/15/larry-garrison-msm-others-just-dont-get-it-you-are-never-supposed-to-be-part-of-the-story-you-report-the-story/

Here is some light reading. Actually not.

It belongs in this thread as well because of Garrison's involvement in the NH case.

What happened within Caylee case ... did the same thing occur with Natalee?

Lala's - who owns the property where the pond is?  Did ALE drained the pond or did someone who owns the pond drain it?  The firetrucks needed to drain the pond were supposedly tied up with the strike.  Is this why the private company drained it or was the private company hired by a private citizen?

Is it a case of mob clean up on aisle 1?

Red- Great front page on the MSM circus and those who would profit from the misfortune of others.  We call them buzzards.

It is all very redundant.

Bingo!!! Now fit that piece into the puzzle.

But what did they tell us it was?  What do we really know?  What did we learn that was in the trap? 

Why haven't we heard anymore about the crab cage ?  It just went "poof"...into the ether..It certainly appeared to be a skull to me.

Some things to think about:

Witness that places Joran at the racquet club.  Time?  Does it fit with the evidence as we have it?
Witness that places Joran at Monserat pond.  Time?  Does it fit with evidence as we have it?
Contents of crab cage found in ocean.  Who took control of it?  Does is relate to anything Natalee? 
Who was on the computer if Joran was seen by a witness at 4 in the morning?
Why was Paulus in the jeep with Joran driving down the road at 4 in the morning?
Would Paulus really let Joran dump Natalee in that pond?  What are the chances that pond would dry up naturally within the next 5 years?  Does it drain on its on periodically?
Why did van der Straaten insert himself to such an extent that he was accused of being involved by another member of the government?
What have we been told was found in that pond?
What is the explanation of the caisno video with an unidentified male talking to Natalee? Who has yet to prove it was not Paulus?
Explain why  the man in the video points out to Natalee something concerning Joran sitting across the table?  What was Natalee's reaction?  Did she appear to know either person?
Where are the FBI in all this?  Why do they not help?
Who's casino was in the HI?
Why does Joran bring the Marriott into the story of leaving Natalee on the beach?  Why did he pick that spot?
What was in each perp's story that is a clue to cover for being seen at various places?
Where did the story of the crypt originate? What other things happened that would fit into this story that seemingly do not fit? 
Still lots of questions...piece by piece.

Sorry about that. Here is what I meant to say:
Actually, I am hoping your guys can make the pieces fit....I know no more than the rest of you...probably less.  I just keep asking these same questions.  Questions that need answering.

is there something with BFN ?

I think that ALE took the contents of the trap, according to Ocean.
They said that they did not have dive capabilities, but the CG Ship
Panther was seen there twice.  And face it...on that island there
are twelve year olds that could make that dive.

What happened when everything just stopped?  What purpose would the FBI have for not telling anyone, maybe even the family, about the contents and the details of that cage? If Natalee was in there it would have been made known already...so if she is not in there what was? What would be the benefit of allowing this much time to pass without saying anything about the contents?  Would our own FBI deliberately withhold information that could solve this case? Who said it was a human skull?  Tim only got a glimpse and later said he realized it was not a skull or was it?  Even the good guys tell a little details while denying everything.

I am really beginning to sound like Shango...I need a vacation.

I got a message saying this account has been suspended.  ::MonkeyShocked::

yes i also

hacked ? ::MonkeyConfused::

OK Lala's, scribble all over me if I get it wrong.

TES found the fish trap/drug post office.  Tim said it looked like a skull and we saw the photographs.  ALE must have claimed that it was drug evidence, so they came in and confiscated the contents - maybe some drug packages, but also the skull.  They gave the FBI some unrelated fabric to test at Quantico and everything else disapppeared, including the skull and a possibe shoe.  They covered it up even though we all saw the evidence.  There was something belonging to Natalee and/or Urine in that fish trap.

A witness came forward with information about the pond.  TES scanned the pond and Kyle told us they identified things.  The pond was drained at night.  ALE covered it up even though TES had seen something.  Evidence from Natalee and/or Urine was in the pond.

Evidence from Natalee and/or Urine was found in the pond and in the fish trap.

What is redundant?

Why would you make that statement?

Who told us there was anything found in the pond?

FYI - looks like BFN is down.  Debbie posted at the backup forum she has notified Ian:

http://bfnbackup.16.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=4443#4443

i shall look were the server is now

is she from dallas texas klaas ?

I have no idea where "she" is. 

Perhaps the FBI isn't helping because the people involved with Natalee's disappearance are also people involved in DEA investigations.  The DEA investigations have a priority over Natalee.  Even Urine was on their watch list.

ok i see that the server is  in texas and have also the ip adresss now  ::MonkeyWink::

Debbie does Dallas?   ::MonkeyHaHa::

so IF the site is hacked  they can find  him soon

and i have the Postal Code also  ::MonkeyWink::

Another question.......why did Private Eye bring up the denim and Kyle ask him to contact him and not discuss on the forum?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367178;topicseen#msg367178

she is debbie  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I think I see where you are coming from.  We have only heard that TES saw things and that ALE found things.  Connect this with Kermit's statement yeasterday and the Manserat Pond was a diversion to distract attention from the fish cage.  ALE set it up.  The witness and the pond story did emerge around the same as the contents of the trap.  This is what Kermit was saying. This has implications .......

Hmmmmm

Where are you Mum?

The FBI has no jurisdiction in this case unless Aruba invites them to be involved.
Their hands are tied.
However, I think they have continued to investigate.  We get a clue about that involvement every now and then.  We know that they stay in touch with
Dave and probably Beth. They were in touch with Persistence.  Sometimes I
think they drop us a clue or two.

Yes, why?

How do we know for sure the FBI is telling the family anything?  What clues are you talking about?  Show me. 

Actually, one person did tell us there was something found in the pond?  Why and how did this person know this if the pond was drained without anyone knowing about it? 

Hint...it was not Caps.  ::MonkeyWink::

Wish I had the answer, but even Caps has said something about being quiet...I forget, right now, the phrase he used.  Was just going to see if I could find it.

Lala's - have we had a plant in our midst?

Kyle said that he recommended draining the pond because of things that he saw on the rasar scan.

No, I don't think so.

Well, right off the top of my head....they sent the pictures of the inside of
the trap to Dave.  We would have never seen them if Robin hadn't posted
them.  I will have to study about others.  I remember Dave saying a while
before the Persistence search that the FBI had contacted him about something,
but I can't remember what right now.

And yet they refused to drain it until the government went on strike and used that as an excuse they couldn't get to it until the strike was over.  When the strike was over...voila'  the pond is dry and nothing is there...not even the things Kyle claims to have seen that needed checking.

BTW it was not Kyle that told us something was actually found in the pond.

We've just gone in a circle about the pond.  What is Kermit trying to tell us?  Did Kyle nt see things in the pond?

But Kyle did say that their crew was invited to be a part of the
pond search and they declined.

Caps also said that things were found in the pond.

Jossy?

Wasn't it someone who is connected to Diario....remembering the tennis shoes.

No circles...just unanswered details....

JOSSY is the person that told us there was a shoe found in the pond.  He said it on Dana one night. He also said he does not know where that shoe is now.  Why does he make this claim?  Jossy is the ONLY person that has made the statement that anything was found in the pond.

What things? Show me.

Who invited them...Mos did not want the pond drained...Tim told us that.

Right after the pond search, he made one of his lightening posts that he was 100% correct about the pond.

Catching up ::MonkeyWink::

But what did he say was found? 

Mum - get out the Excedrin.

You're right, he intimated.  He didn't specify.

Yes, and Luis M. who was found with massive amounts of cocaine and money in his home.

And it was Eric M. who employed the Gardner

And it was Jossy who lead us around on a search itinerary.

First hearsay information on this case was posted by ArubaGirl and Luis was probably the drop off point.

Joran today involves himself in Human trafficking and probably dropped Natalee off to Luis with the same intent and they have all been working together ever since.

It has always been noted that Luis M. is the one M. everyone fears on Aruba.

I asked Caps 3 or 4 times one day if there was forensics in the pond, even asked about a shoe...he ignored my questions...I took that as a yes.

So, Jossy is the only person who claims to have knowledge of objects located in the pond.

Was it Jossy who drained the pond?

Magnolia...OT at the moment, but a while back, before I joined SM there were extensive discussions about the blood on the mattress.

It was determined with much research that ALE could not have distinguished between Human and dog blood without testing.

They could not have known when they found the mattress that it was dog's blood.

Do you recall any of these discussions?  TIA

Sorry....

I think that Mos didn't want the pond searched, but the Persistence
crew did the side scan without his  permission.
I honestly think that he did allow the pond to be drained. (or someone did) 
I remember a statement from Mos that they were delayed because of the strike.
I do not know who invited the Persistence crew, but Kyle just said that
they were invited.  It was about the time of the bunch of investigators
from NL being there.   Mabe the Dutch invited them?

Probably...now you take the Excedrin...LOL

Do we have dates for any of this..TIA

Lala's...dates on the pics...TIA

That's great! I haven't had the time to look into the Shango threads yet.
But before I have concrete questions first SS's summary has to really sink in; the story that is presented there is quite specific (and quite gruesome) so I have to more or less match it with the story I have in my mind. Which is pretty much the one that came out of the Joran-Car-confessions, with some exceptions.

But an obvious question would of course be: how much of the Shango story is corroborated by facts?

none of it.

What I recall is that they never tested the blood at all.  They just
saw the dead dog nearby and assumed.

LOL...Depends whom  you ask...Let me know what you need and I will look for it!

Going to check tonight on the timeline on the pond...from Caps Avatar on...LOL

Technically speaking...you are correct. 

Shango and Simian are in cryptic format.  We know that many things in both are true.  We have no idea if either theory is the accurate course of events.  We don't know if it was disinformation to create a diversion or the truth.  Much of our information has also come from Caps.

Hang on.  I have to find them again. LOL

Isn't there a statement somewhere in S?S that we need to learn why he put the dead dogs there?  Were the dead dogs or dog put there as a distraction for why the blood was really on the mattress?

Thanks...I was hoping you would recall the research discussions.

Actually, I don't have dates for those pics.  I can only say that I know I received them not more than 3 days after Julia reported the pond as being dry.  Caps would have to answer that question.  I uploaded them to my computer but I have no idea how to find out what that date was...you know how dumb I am on that kind of thing. 

The pond would have been drained within a week of the strike ending.  I know Caps was waiting for it to be drained and then all of a sudden the pond is dry.  Maybe Caps can clear up that timeline for us.

Lala's - did Jossy hire EcoTech?

I think that was referring to the dead dogs in the Moko pond,
but your theory could be correct.

FWIW

Aired June 5, 2005 - 18:00   ET
<snipped>

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It certainly does look like a major break, Carol. These are the first two arrests that have been made in the case.

These two suspects were pulled in at around 7:00 a.m. local time in raids on two homes on the eastern edge of the island. Police are describing the two men as aged 28 and 30. Both of them, police say, were security guards at the hotel near the Holiday Inn -- that's the hotel where Natalee Holloway was staying.

The frustrating part, though, Carol, is that so far, still no sign of Natalee Holloway's whereabouts. In the raids on the two homes, three cars were seized, bags full of possessions were also seized from those homes. But in an afternoon press conference Aruba's general prosecutor has said that nothing belonging to Natalee, no item or clothing, no other possession of hers has been found in any of those the raids.

The good news is, though, that these two arrestees will still be detained for at least another 48 hours. They are undergoing interrogation as we speak to see what more information police and investigators can glean from them.

In the course of the afternoon as well, I'm not sure whether this was linked directly but Dutch marines were combing a wind-swept eastern beach in Aruba looking for signs of Natalee's whereabouts. They turned up a mattress stained with blood. There was speculation that this could be linked to the case for a short while, but FBI agents that carried out tests on that blood and ruled it out of the investigation. They say that blood was, in fact dog blood, not human blood at all.
http://www.studentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/05/sun.04.html




Monday, June 6, 2005
<snipped>

At a Sunday news conference, van Strantan said police and the FBI determined that bloodstains on a mattress found earlier Sunday were from a dog.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/05/missing.teen/index.html

Well, in general I tend to be critical too, but I'm not totally sceptical Even the police has stated that these guys have (drug-)raped girls before. And these days it's very easy to make a 'pornvid' on your cellphone. So some of the story could very well be true. But on the other hand it's well known that a chain of 'hear-say' often let's the facts grow bigger and bigger... So the question than of course is how far or deep did this go?

Mum, I think maybe there was a period of time between when the pond was actually drained and when we saw the pictures.  Rob discovered all of them on a website, but once that was found the photographs there disappeared.

I think it was the middle of June.

I don't know if they actually found a dead dog at Moko.  I think the reference to the dead dogs might have been in connection to Lorenzo's dogs.  Supposedly, Lorenzo was also into shooting dogs.  One of Lorenzo's dead dogs could have been left near the mattress.

I suppose we should be in Shango talking about this, but don't tell Klaas and she will never know.


Shango says they never took Natalee to the beach.  That is beginning to look more plausible with each new clue.

Shango says that Joran was a scapegoat.  That may ultimately prove to be correct given Paulus' involvement.

Shango says there is some kind of underground maze type situation that we can't figure out. It appears that could be true, given the other people that have told us about the Matty apts and the Lion Den and the now knowing about Joran and his proclivities to engage innocent women into sex slavery.

So there is a little truth in each of the cryptic posters messages.  Just because it does not make sense to one of us does not mean another of us won't see it for what it is. 

I was watching a television show last night that made me think of dirty hand...there was this madam in it that held all the keys to all the doors at her brothel and she chose who to let in and who to exclude.  I thought...dirty hand...walks among them, but not to satiate desire.  I really need a vacation.

I thinkit was later determined that the FBI did not do those test on the mattress.
It was discussed that ALE did that and did not even use luminol.

I have no idea.  I thought John Silvetti was going to do the draining...so maybe it's true that he and John hired them.  So where is the stuff drained from the pond and why did no one know about it when it happened?  Even Julia found it already drained. 

I recall posts about the mattress possibly coming from the HI...white truck seen at the HI.

Also recall posts about a room being totally renovated at the HI.

Mattress found later in the day of June 5th, the day the SGs were arrested.

Recalling Hammer's American Pie post from the other day...MJ?

Thanks vms...

Wish Rob would pop in with the pic of the outline of a body in the empty pond!

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

EURobert - we are pretty certain about the porn video involvement.  The US connection was Mr. Pink in Florida, who Johan posted the information about yesterday.  Urine and his friends were into watching porn videos and making them.  Freddy has been identified as the cameraman and he was actually arrested at one point for taping young girls.  We were given information that JR was involved with the equipment because she owns/owned a photography business and does the photography for an Aruban newspaper.  She has also been identified as a madame and we have seen photographs of Urine and his male and female friends at a location known for prostitution.  One of these girls is reportedly still an escort.  The porn information appears to be very accurate.

It was Aruba Girl that told the story about Joran killing his own dog
and throwing it in the Moko Pond.  I think he killed it with a paint ball gun.

I don't think Klaas will mind as long as we stick to a few summaries of the Shango-thread...

It is a tale of every community small and large around the world. There are always the elite and there bad habits.
It is a generalization. It is not a specific accusation against any one person and is not a location of a body.
It had an intent. To derail people minds and it is a professional placed piece of "Propaganda".
We worked this Shango thing over, line by line from the beginning of the Shango religion in Nigeria to the island of Aruba and we looked down every yellow brick road ............... It is Bull Carp.
mo.

The reason we have not solved anything is the tremendous amount of disinformation people are willing to Focus on.
But you are more then welcome to follow that road all over again.. ::MonkeyCool::
jmho

Why am I not surprised?

It was done at night...the lights for the soccer field were on, remember.

The stuff was shipped to SA in a container, or most of it was?

If you recovered Natalee's body in the pond...why would you keep it a secret and let this entire case fall by the wayside?  What purpose?  To have that knowledge and not use it to resolve this case is utterly stupid given the current economic situation of the tourist trade in Aruba.   Just think what kind of good press a discovery of Natalee's body and a resulting conviction could bring to Aruba. 

That has stuck with me.  All we saw was an apparent excavation site of the mud in the drained pond (in the shape of a body) with a bucket nearby.

But if you were going to surreptitiously remove material from a pond, would you leave such an obvious trail of removal?  Why leave a bucket?  Why leave that shape?  Why not create other sites of disturbance?

Edward
So what happened?  The pond is not a Shango thing at all.  That has nothing at all to do with anything Shango related.  I can make it, if you want, because I can make anything fit Shango.

You sound like me now.

In the words of an Aruba Expert..."It was not about NH"...

But I believe the posters identities tell us a lot about what happened to Natalee...Maybe not the actual crime, but the cover-up and the events immediately following Natalee's disappearance...JMO

Who told us it was shipped to SA? 

And I am totally confused...LOL

Why did Jossy post a pic in his paper of a pair of shoes for no reason? Heck maybe it was just one... ::MonkeyConfused::

I did...that is where  they ship trash in containers to.  I found it in an article about EcoTech ::MonkeyHaHa::

So you are assuming that if Echo tech drained the pond the contents were placed in shipping containers and sent to SA?  ::MonkeyConfused::

I agree with you totally but still... It could shed some light on the circumstances or the environment these guys lived in; especially when some of the claims are corroborated by facts. But the focus first must be on the actual crime and... Natalee's body! Agree!

Is paul vd Sloot  only a " lawyer" now or ..... has he other activities?

It depends what you mean by other activities.  ::MonkeyWink::

business

SS - I lurk and read....but I have nothing to add to the great work that ya'll do....I still feel that Natalee remains will not be found...but continue to hope.....I don't believe that joran or anyone involved in her death and the disappearance of her body will ever have to pay for those specific acts...but continue to hope they will all pay for the other criminal acts they have/will commit...so I watch and I wait

[



[/quote]

You sound like me now.
[/quote]

And I am totally confused...LOL

Why did Jossy post a pic in his paper of a pair of shoes for no reason? Heck maybe it was just one... ::MonkeyConfused::
[/quote]

There were three shoes....the one that Jossy had...the one in the pond and
the one in the fish trap.

Wreck, see CAPS post this am.

Yes...EcoTech is a Waste Management company...TM is the one that posted she thought they drained the pond looking for Jose Tromp.

That is why I started looking at them...How many times have you asked "Who drained the pond?"

What page?

You sound like me now.
[/quote]

And I am totally confused...LOL

Why did Jossy post a pic in his paper of a pair of shoes for no reason? Heck maybe it was just one... ::MonkeyConfused::
[/quote]

There were three shoes....the one that Jossy had...the one in the pond and
the one in the fish trap.
[/quote]


Thanks Magnolia...Do we know what size...LOL

Edward - you appear to be a new poster.  I don't understand your antagonism and negative comments like redundant in reference to the topic we are discussing.  None of us are forcing you to be part of this discussion.  If you are displeased, you are free to go elsewhere.

Page 1.

oeps ss  ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

I never found anything to suggest Aruba sends there garbage by container to S.A.

The Aruba landfill Dave was in is owned by and run by the Aruban government and was overgrown with Garbage, they were digging holes 10 feet deep to get to the envelopes and such that indicated 5-30-05 was dumped there.
There was discussion of a garbage barge that dumped in the deep ocean.. Which would be a violation of international law at this point. I have not seen evidence of such a barge.
The landfill could have been the dumping location of the body as we did have a Colombian witness that had seen a body go into a trash bag and put into a truck and then we had another witness who had seen a body go into the landfill. Both witnesses were discounted..
Dave was kicked out of the landfill even as Dogs hit on a location, after digging for a long time. Next day those holes were refilled. All indicating that the garbage is NOT shipped out.
There is now a company in Aruba that is separating landfill materials by contract and creating "fluff" out of the final material and all the rest of the items salvaged are being shipped off as recycle material and that material may be headed off to S.A., I do not know.

 If Natalee was placed in the landfill by whomever... Her body could have been taken back out and put into a steel or plastic container which are used to store toxic waste at the landfill and That container could have been shipped out on a pallet with other containers on a ship and disposed of in a place designed for the disposal of toxic waste.
 That could have been Nicaragua as we did have a witness there and Tim Miller did go meet this fellow who promised to bring evidence of Natalee disposed of there and he somehow disappeared.. Never to return.
 Leading me to consider that Nicaragua could be a possible dumping spot for containers of toxic waste.. Nicaragua is run by "Ortega" who is a puppet buy for Hugo Chavez. Ortega could care less about Nicaragua ..He does care about Money.
 

SS...Your post about the dogs reminded me: 

Deepak came with 2 dogs...

And I am totally confused...LOL

Why did Jossy post a pic in his paper of a pair of shoes for no reason? Heck maybe it was just one... ::MonkeyConfused::
[/quote]

There were three shoes....the one that Jossy had...the one in the pond and
the one in the fish trap.
[/quote]


Thanks Magnolia...Do we know what size...LOL
[/quote]




Mum - that picture was in Diario because someone had planted it by the rocks and they left an anonymous note for Diario.  Destiny checked the shoe in the photogaph with the manufacturer (K-Swiss) and I think it was actually a woman's shoe.

Hi Edward, where do you live????

Haven't finshed reading your post...But I have...just a few days ago...a pdf from 1999...When I feel like it I will start up my DDs computer that I found it on while this was in the shop...better still go look yourself...I am not that clever and I found it!

Why the heck would I make that up!!!!!!

Didin't Simion say her decapitated body, her head, will wash up on shore????

Ho A1...Just an educaed guess...US...

Your conclusions are no less as conflicting as any of ours.  Everything we think we know about this case is not necessarily true.  I have found out lately that there are things we thought all this time were true that are not.   Thus my post about putting the pieces together that actually fit.

Wreck, can I email you now???

I am not a new poster.
I have been here since day one.
I left for awhile and Red or somebody reinstated my user name. I spend most of my time at BFN
I am not antagonistic.. I am tired. There is a difference..  ::MonkeyRoll:: I think many of us are.
I still would like to see the case solved.

Oops...A1...Hi...sorry... ::MonkeyShocked::

Edward, if you are tired of a particular discussion please skip over it.  People have many thoughts as to what happened and what they believe happened given the evidence that have looked at or researched.

Yes I saw you post the same thing in Clinton's thread.  What name did you post under before? Thanks!

I live in The Monterey Bay Area of California.

I specialize in South American politics.

I own property in Paraguay and have friends in South America who keep me informed of currant events.

I respect everyone's opinion ... I had communications inside of Venezuela when this all began.

Hugo Chavez shut down communications on the Internet for average people not long after Natalee went missing.

Hi Edward,

After 3 1/2 years, almost everything is redundant.  Almost everything we have from the early days and from Aruba is disinformation.  We have some wonderful folks from around the world who continue to come here and try make sense from the rubble. 

I believe that by coming here and continuing to focus on justice for Natalee, one day it will come.

I'm tired too, but we all just keep coming back, don't we?

 ::MonkeyCool::


 

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #754 5/28 -
« Reply #927 on: June 01, 2008, 12:15:51 AM » 

Well then,we have pictures of a drained pond with a area where the top layer of dirt was removed but yet nothing in any of the papers and denial from the OM that it was ever searched. We all saw what OE and Caps told us! Something really stinks here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2867.920


OCEAN EXPLORATION - MONSERAT POND SEARCH
 
Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #559 on: May 14, 2008, 05:26:56 PM »
 
Greetings,

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.
   
All the best
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381276#msg381276


Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #601 on: May 14, 2008, 07:05:52 PM »
 
The tiny pond is about 0.15-0.2 west of the intersection of Rt. 3 and Rt. 2.  It's on the north side of Rt. 3 next to the soccer field.
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381325#msg381325
 

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2008, 11:33:33 PM »
 
Yes, it is certainly the same pond that we searched in February.
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381855#msg381855
 

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #144 on: Today at 12:59:01 PM »
 
I'll try to clarify a few points. Nice pics by the way.
 
- The pond was searched because of a promising lead we received.
 
- We were able to conduct the scanning sonar (not to be confused with side scan sonar) search of the pond because of some weather related down time during the ocean search.
 
- My analysis of the sonar was used to

1) show that the pond needed to be drained in opposed to be investigated with divers.  The only way to effectively search the pond would be if it were dry.

2) show that there were objects in the pond aside from tires.  I'm not commenting on what these objects could be because I'm not speculating.  I will say that I at least saw tires (I saw a pic of one somewhere) in the scanning sonar.

- The reason the pond search was so delayed was on account of the labor strike.  The pond needed to be completely drained which needed the help of the Polis and fire department.  Needless to say labor was needed and hard to come by.  When the strike ended the pond search happened almost immediately.

- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.   

I hope that cleared up more questions that it raises.

It was Edward before.. lol
I would not repost unless I kept my name..  ::MonkeyCool::

Let me hear your theory. Thanks.

Well hi, and welcome!!!

That's not what I said, I don't know who drained the pond.

here is guido  ::MonkeyHaHa:: in den hague  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/GUIDO-1.jpg)

Nicely said Helen.

http://www.arubachamber.com/newsletters/mayjun00.pdf

It appears EcoTech ships some of its recycled materials to SA.

Article about EcoTech  (con't. from pg. 9)

pg. 13

With some hotels, supermarkets, schools, government offices, etc. it has already begun to implement a ‘source separation system’. This system utilizes containers designated to separate cartons, paper andaluminum cans.  We have special containers for cartons and for hi-gradepaper we use a plastic-‘toter’ cart for separation. Lately balers (special compactor for carton) were introduced at different locations. These balers are for densifying the cartons into a bale for the mills (bale weight is approximately 1.000 lb). The baler compacts the material so that they can fit into the seatainer that will ship them to their
proper destinations.

This method of condensing also proves to be cost-effective by reducing shipping charges.
The above3 items are collected and brought to our MRF.  These recyclable materials are processed into a form that is acceptable to end-users(mills.)  The paper and carton are exported to Venezuela and Colombia, and the aluminum to the United States.

Major benefits of this processing are diversion of valuable resources from the dump;
reduced trips to the dump;

volume reduction increases space utilization and efficiency;

improved housekeeping, sanitation;

positive image as an environmentally aware waste generator contributing to the ‘Greening of Aruba’.

These are just a few steps in the right direction, and ways of handling organic materials and compost systems are just a couple of the waste alternatives that EcoTech Aruba is
hoping to develop and offer the island in the near future.

Magnolia, I was just going to post that for you guys ,Thanks ::MonkeyCool::

I am sorry...Some-one posted EcoTech and the pond and Jose...I thought it was you...I even asked about it and didn't get an answer...I will go find it.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: Johan...the pic did make me laugh. 

I made a post that IIRC they were allowed to search for Tromp there.

Yes, A-1


I have been bumped off of NAH twice in the past half hour.

They should have done a forensics search for Natalee at " Luis M " home when they busted him.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4044.180


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #773 11/09/08 thru
« Reply #182 on: November 10, 2008, 05:52:51 PM »

IIRC the same pond was allowed to be searched by a company called EcoTech? or something like that when they were looking for the Tromp man.

It is a miracle that I found it.
I am not good with the searches.

\edward do you know Crossbow and Richard????

Thank You Pita ..You are so wonderful.

Paul's other Activities  ::MonkeyConfused::   look at the Links   ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Carlo-sloot.jpg)

Domain Name.......... arubalegalservices.com
  Creation Date........ 2006-08-10
  Registration Date.... 2006-08-10
  Expiry Date.......... 2009-08-10
  Organisation Name.... Antonio A.D.A. Carlo
  Organisation Address. Mozartstraat 7
  Organisation Address.
  Organisation Address. Oranjestad
  Organisation Address. 00000
  Organisation Address. none
  Organisation Address. ARUBA

Admin Name........... Antonio A.D.A. Carlo
  Admin Address........ Mozartstraat 7
  Admin Address........
  Admin Address........ Oranjestad
  Admin Address........ 00000
  Admin Address........ none
  Admin Address........ ARUBA
  Admin Email.......... aadacarlo@yahoo.com   ----Admin Phone.......... +1.2975830130

website :  http://www.arubalegalservices.com/index.html

So do you know if they did or not...Thanks

we follow him everywhere   ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

they must increasingly take more  pills and drugs   ::MonkeyHaHa::

So ALE took it....well, I guess we'll hear no more of it I suppose ?  That's sickening;  You're right - I would doubt there would be a diver shortage.

2NJ or another Mod - could someone bring Kermit's last posts from the previous NAH thread over here with the pictures.  This post was the ctclyst for our discussion this afternoon.  Those of you who have recently joined us probably have no clue what we're been talking about.  Thanks so much.

Could we also bring Caps' post at the end of last NAH thread over here, too.  It's important to the discussion.  Thanks.

#788???

He certainly didn't look like a model in that one, for sure.

I don't know for sure if they did or not.  I had more than one source of this information, the one that I could have shared here; I can't locate at this moment not even positive I saved it.  Both were from the time right before TES went to search for Tromp and the pond had already been drained.

SS, I'll look for both of them for you.

Mum - thanks for Caps' post. 

I laughed so hard because of you.

Posted by Kermit:

(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8171/shoeinsidecagepg8.jpg)
Perhaps the new pond witness was to get the focus off of the cage?
 
When did Caps present the pond witness?
When did Kyle tell you the cage was found?
Who is who? Remember the initials - it was a clue of who was involved to lead the monkeys away from bananas.

Why is there one tennis shoe inside THIS cage?
Why is there a skull inside THIS cage?
Why was all the focus changed to a pond that is dried up eh?
Monkey's can figure it out the cover-up.


(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3017/datelinediversfromarubaoa5.jpg)

(http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/7642/datelineskullog2.jpg)
"ALWAYS TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS" - kermit

 ::MonkeyCool::  San beat me with Kermit's post....I saw her over there, but copied it just in case.

Sorry  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks Mods.  The posts by Kermit and Caps initiated a lot of discussion.

Thanks TM...I thought it strange that a Waste Mangement Co would be draining a pond.

Going to check out all the pond timelines later.

That's a good point.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I hope A1  is!  I thought I left the typos on the other computer...no such luck!

Yes.

I am still curious what initials Kermit was talking about.

I don't think the FBI is giving up!

(no intent to convey any reference to A-1)  ::MonkeyCool::

I didn't see anything about that,  please tell.

The bigger picture.

Both Joran and Paulus mention an FBI guy being there, yet the Family say DEA Williams. I can't find Eric Williams tied to any of the neighboring Consuls, but did find another Williams tied to Barbados in the 2005 listings.

I think there may have been a FBI or retired FBI there at the time. Why else would Paulus and Joran throw that out there?

The Manserat Pond

What?  Im sorry I was busy flirting with Wreck, who won't pay a durn bit of attention to me.

I am as well...CAPS or one of the suspects?

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20Search/trapcolor1md9.gif)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20Search/trap2cy7.gif)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20Search/1Trap.jpg)

Please watch your cussing! ::MonkeyNoNo::

Me, too, and I wish Kermit would come back and help us.

Wreck
What was it that you said that one night when Kyle told you
that you had hit the nail on the head or he like what you said
or something like that?

There's a tornado watch for NJ west of NYC.  If 2NJ and I suddenly disappear, we're on our way to Kansas.

Kermit - I see you lurking.  Here's a treat if you'll help us with the initials.

Stop by my house, I am barbecuing....

Lol... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Nice photos thank you.

If It had been a skull ..Tim was there, don't you think we had the right guys on the job to make that positive identification ?

The F.B.I. came back and said the cloth was not that of Natalee..
 But who ever said she was in her own cloth ?
She could have been raped /Murdered and wrapped in any kind of cloth for the purpose of disposal.

But the skull should have been able to be identified by divers.. and if I remember correct it was sent away to be tested by the F.BI. who claimed it was Coral ?? ODD !! As there is not coral anyplace in those photos... From my understanding coral grows from a existing cluster.. Not intermittently growing here and there.

Remind me of what the F.B.I. determined on the item that would look like a skull in those photos posted.
Thank You.

Don't forget Toto! ::MonkeyHaHa::

Me too.  I do believe the truth will emerge at some point in time, however.

Someone told me it was a coconut.  Now how does a coconut get in a crab trap in 90 feet of water.  Kyle told us that he was not onboard Persistence the two days that Panther and the ALE divers arrived.  He watched from the beach.  They came on two consecutives days and then left.  When Kyle returned to the ship, nobody would discuss the topic with him.

I saved it! (I also maintain our FBI knows! :

Quote from: wreck on Today at 03:20:36 PM
I'm going to dig a bigger hole for myself as I think few are following what I'm saying.
1) The Persistence in all likelihood has found Natalee in the trap.
2) They really did not want to expose this just yet. Why? Because they still need to "prove"
the "whys" and "hows". They have a better chance of accomplishing this if the actual "perps"
aren't "clued in."
3) Why the "Dateline" irregularities? Because "Dateline" was already on board and they had to
 keep up "appearances" so they could continue with their "plan."
4) The posting of the pics on the internet put a severe cramp in their plans.
5) Why is trap so big? Because the body disposal did not happen that night as in Joran's story.
 Her body was put there at least a few days later by a bigger boat involving a larger cover-up.
This why they did not reveal their "finding" yet. They want to find out who has that bigger boat.

Once again -- my opinion.

We have waited 3 years -- hold on -- we're almost there!


~~~~~~
I also pray that you are right!  Wreck, I like the way you think. 
Wreck, then what are your thoughts on Mos's press release about the FBI results?

Don't know - don't care what Mos says or does. I trusted him up until Thanksgiving time. Never again.

trainwreck .gif =  (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x58/rorothe/trainwreck.gif)

Does anyone know where we can find the photograph of Tim and John scanning the pond and also the closeup of the area of disturbed soil after the pond was drained?

A coconut.. amazing.

Me too.

The Search for Natalee Holloway

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

Their is a lot of information posted here.

evidence
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2991/seaeyefalcon1266rovremotl9.jpg)


(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9937/image528yh4.jpg)

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/613/image529qh8.jpg)

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5726/image530jq0.jpg)

January 17, 2008 Caps puts his first post on scared monkeys


Quote from: oceanexploration on February 29, 2008, 10:45:24 PM

I will not comment about the trap.



dozens of boats at Fishermans Huts nearby.
http://tinyurl.com/6gq5ss

(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/516/pvdsprofile1bs.jpg)
Red shirt

(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3673/datelinearubaauthorisitte0.jpg)
Cover-up

(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6186/datelinediversfromarubams2.jpg)
Cover-up

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9679/skullxs0.jpg


The truth has the power to heal, to protect and to guide.

Monkeys, follow your gut instincts.
ribbit

Thank You Wreck

I have always remembered that post and held onto hope.
I could remember parts of what you said, but not all.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20Search/februarycr7.jpg)

kermmie is trying to help.
&
trying to protect me frog legs

trust what you know wreck, you've been a bingo many times.

I still maintain our FBI KNOWS.  ::MonkeyCool::

THANKS KERMIT!  We want your frog legs protected too!

 ::MonkeyCool::

NO,  fbi did not know everything.

Yes, I need my legs to hop.

evidence
 ::MonkeyCool::

2005 I think
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Pond%20Search%202008/pond4.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Pond%20Search%202008/pond1.jpg)

2008
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Pond%20Search%202008/destinypondpicture2.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Pond%20Search%202008/dam_national_1.jpg)

one is a polis officer.
one is a monkey's uncle.
one is a monkey.

Now can I eat the treat!
ribbit

 THEY DO BUT CAN'T DO A DAM THING ABOUT IT ::MonkeyCool::

okay, --- more than we are led to believe they know?? (which is very little)