Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

WOW! I sure hope Kermit is Right!    ::MonkeyCool::

(http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4153.0;attach=3495;image)

(http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4153.0;attach=3496;image)

Edward.I'm not understanding how this correlates with Joran's Hitler statement???Just his,as well as Paulus state of mind??What would Joran be hinting at??

I hope for Greta also.

The Fourth Empire was in Venezuela and Aruba, the Dutch were expelled SS'ers to Aruba where they were interrogated by the police. ::MonkeyWink::

I'll bet that Francis is the brother of Charles Croes.

John Charles is the nephew of the American traitor, Charles Croes.

Gielen Exposed tonight on Dutch talkshow  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=LVdusm9TUdQ

I wonder...Thanks San

Links vms found on the family...

CITY, STATE   AVAILABLE INFORMATION   POSSIBLE RELATIVES
CROES, FREYA E (Age 50)

       DORAL, FL               CROES, JOHN C (Age 25)
        CROES, BRENTON T (Age 22)
        CROES, CHARLES F (Age 49)
        CROES, CHARINE J (Age 22)
        CROES, ROXANNE L

 
 
These are the relatives of John Charles Croes. Doral Florida.

All the ALE reports for John Charles Croes are in Aruba and his Hard Drive went to Holland.

This Charine’s grandparents are Carlos Croes and the grandmother is Croes-Eman

  1.    PDF]
09-01--2008 Body 2.indd   
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Roxanne Croes –. Paradera 117-C. 45. Emily Williams – Caya. Frere Arnold 3. 46. Kevin Arends –. Hooiberg 92-B. 47. Valentino Koolman –. Santa Cruz 222 ...
solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid= 362 - Similar pages
 
 
Brenton Croes
http://bcloves.spaces.live.com/
 
Charine Croes Family pics here.
http://solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=134
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=199.msg34106#msg34106
 
Reply #926 on: August 12, 2006, 10:12:04 PM »   
________________________________________
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Here is Charine Croes tickle site.  I need to look through her friends still and see if John Charles is there:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=Sop5SEfmD7ZSVx1s

Is this girl related to Charles Croes?  She looks like him a little.

If you look through her photos she has a photo of her dad..not Charles Croes.  She does have a photo of her Uncle though that "could be" Charles Croes...not sure though:
 
LINKS

http://cs01.ewedding.com/v30/main.php?a=arscjc18
 
Charine's facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Charine-Croes/773945439
 
John's facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Croes/1528686140
 
Charine's myspace:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38092112

Thanks Bastibro !!! toppie !!!

I don't think so because his name is Charles Francis.

YOU GUY'S KNOW I CAN'T STOP UNTIL I HAVE ANSWERS THAT SATISFY ME RIGHT  ::MonkeyCool::

I'm not Edward, but I'll add my two cents based on wisdom gained during a lifetime and since following the NH case.

It is my understanding, the Dutch, in general, did not like the Nazi's.  The Nazi's took all the bicycles during the war and did not give them back.  They also starved the population, and from the stories I heard as a child, the Dutch were forced to eat their beloved tulip bulbs to survive (some have suggested that is not true...).

Some have suggested the Nazi comment was the brainchild of PVDS/JVDS to make the Arubans and the Dutch dislike Beth and the Americans.  And, to portray the family of Natalee Holloway as racists.

From the Vanity Fair article -

In my experience, every culture, nation, group--has their own concept of color and race and ethnic slotting.  I don't think the people from Alabama or from my state "Wisconsin" would consider the Kalpoes as "black".  However, I believe in some places, all darker skinned people, those not lily white are considered black.  Just a different way of slotting the human race.

The topic of race and Nazi was much discussed early in the case.


old RWV link - http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/09/natalee_hollowa_11.html (http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/09/natalee_hollowa_11.html)

jmho

I did get that impression Blonde ::MonkeyHaHa:: Youre GREAT!

Joran is a Moron..  ::MonkeyTongue::
He has been lucky and I am sure he rolls his fathers eyes all the time. ::MonkeyConfused::

The mindset of a Nazi is a political thought..
Paulus religion ? He is an atheist.
The Nazis said they " killed God.. With that thought.. If You had that mindset, that kind of thinking pattern would have no concern for killing OTHERS. Like Natalee
and So, It is..
jmho

78  video's  on you tube Bastibro ? oeps  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://nl.youtube.com/profile?user=Justice4Natalee&view=videos

yeah, as if i have nothing to do ::MonkeyHaHa::

So was the statement from Joran about "Hitler" of his own doing,and or Paulus or someone else???I personally don't think Joran is that smart to divide and conquer.That would have to come from someone with a bit more knowledge of history.
Thanx WhiskeyGirl.

I have been told Joran has Jewish blood, he`s a Dutch jew i think.
I`ll search for links  ::MonkeyWink::

Do you have the movie opsporing verzocht also ?

I read early on on the Jewish thing.. Then someplace I read he was atheist.
That would be interesting to clarify.. As somebody from a Jewish background would could use Hitler comments in some derogatory sense..
In other words, one of the worst demonized thoughts he could come up with, in order to call Beth a name. 
To insult her..
I could see that..

Only the On the Record version of it. IMO it`s of no relevance.

Just a thought on Kermit's posts about a possible "pipeline" from Venezuela to Aruba.

OceanExplorer told us that the Persistence had no capabilities to detect oil (only side sonar capable of "mapping" the ocean floor). Well, isn't that exactly what would be needed to to know WHERE to run a pipeline?? hmmmmmmm  ::MonkeyShocked::

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

Quote from Granny Toad today at 12:00:

Anna - not that it likely means anything much but have you any insight on what became of that front passenger seat from Paul's red & white jeep? I mean now it sounds like Joran left his muddy slimy mark that morning Paul pretended to have slept like an angel but ...

Another thing I've always wondered is why the 2 times close together latenight ATM cash withdrawals was that Joran or Paul?


--------


No, Gran, I don't know what happened to the seat but only that it was already missing in the very first photos of Paulus' car.  It caught my attention because he is a man from a family of five with three boys.  I have three and can't imagine the luxury of having a car seat removed or even getting away from them that way, lol.

As for the bank transactions, I do believe that to have been Paulus and not Joran for we don't have any accounts of Joran doing any banking on his own.  Supposedly, Paulus even had to deposit Joran's winnings so I tend to think it was Joran but have no way of knowing anything for a fact, not having been present at the time.

Same as others.

It is a large, commercial FISHING trap, not a crab trap as often described.  Much too large for crab trap unless they have some different species in that region.  Fish trap.  Dropped off and later recovered by commercial fishermen.

From Joran's 5/31/05 statement -


From a link at BFN, quoting something from RU.  This is a translation from Joran's book (page 124?) -


page 327 - from translation posted at BFN


Current Affair interview -

Joran's 06/09/05 statement

Satish 06/11/05 statement
::MonkeyConfused::

Jaime Alberto CARRASQUILIA CACERES 6/17/05 statement

Deepak 6/29/05 statement

Chapter 8 translation of Joran's book at BFN, pages 13 & 14 -

translation of Joran's book at BFN -

CHAPTER 11 Breakthrough by Best Friend Freddy - from BFN

Deepak Kalpoe Statement of June 11, 2005 - bfn


Satish Kalpoe Statement June 11, 2005 - bfn


I believe KJ formally asked the US State Department if Beth was related to hitler... ::MonkeyEek::

At first I thought you wanted us to explain our "monkey cage" here!!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: Actually, I think local commercial fishermen use the cage to catch fish in ( not sure what variety).

Thanks so much.  So the one in the pictures is probably being used .  I got the impression it was old and had been there for awhile and they were surprised to find it.  Maybe I read more into it.  Thanks again

I can only speculate with all the restaurants in Aruba, they would have a need for traps, and it was said they put rags full of bait in them, however I don't know about the size and weight of this one.  It certainly is heavy duty.

BLAH!

I saw you calling me old.  You are a sight for sore old monkey eyes after reading all this.

Never thought I would say it but it is great to see you after all this time.  Guess we all wander back no matter what after a while.   ::MonkeyDance::

I think Greta has some new information but unlike most, I don't think it has to do with the trap but could be wrong.  I think it is more along the banking route. 

Or even maybe to do with Rudy Croes having the two dancer/sex slaves that said they were being held against their will as well.  Guess it could be anything so can't wait to see.

Watching her each night just in hope she sheds more light on this.

Please start reading here
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

I think it would, Wreck.  But I don't have the finincial wizzardry to
follow the money. ::MonkeyConfused::

Mariloo,

No, it is all crusty so I don't think it is in use now.  Some have speculated it was drug drop off point but there is too much growth on it for it to be used for much of anything currently.  Maybe just abandoned by commercial fishermen who never came back?  Lots from all over the world fish in waters far from home especially the Japanese and others who seek food in diverse locations.

can you post the pictures you have please.

I have to admit that is what I first thought, as well!!    ::MonkeyHaHa::   

Is it not possible to map the ocean floor AND look for Natalee at the same time?

Is it not possible to have an altruistic reason for helping her family AND a political motivation to get the ole MEP simultaneously?

Isn't this what killing two birds with one stone refers to doing?

I think we have seen a great deal of this kind of action and I personally don't have a negative judgment of those who might do it.

Thanks.  Is this the one TM thinks a skull was in and was not allowed to go back and check because someone (aruban) already checked and gave a thumbs down there was nothing in it?

But I did ask Ocean if that was the case and he said no.

That is so funny.  I forgot to put crab or trap or explain.  I was thinking it , just did not write it down.  Nobody could ever explain this cage ::MonkeyHaHa::

AFAIK, there is only one fish trap in all of this so guess yes, that would be the same one.

And the only people in the photo I recognize for sure are Hans Mos, Kyle and that one front and left in the white shirt is the back of Tim Miller's head for sure, lol.

Thanx WhiskeyGirl.Seems intentionally injected!What would the intended purpose be??What do they think would occur from this statement?

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/lukelogin21-11.jpg)

Valero’s first refinery in the Caribbean, the Aruba refinery is located on the southern tip of the island, which is about 20 miles northeast of Venezuela.  Strategically located near key feedstock and product corridors, the refinery is equal distance to major U.S. Gulf Coast and Northeast markets.

The refinery has excellent logistics; with two deepwater marine docks with capacity for ultra-large crude carriers, six docks for refined products, 63 storage tanks with almost 12 million barrels of storage capacity, and a truck rack for local sales.


(http://www.valero.com/NR/rdonlyres/464E77EE-FC04-4C82-A2F1-60B8DDD36EDB/0/Aruba102008.JPG)

Is this Luke in Seattle the same age as Joran? 

Correction from previous post at last thread: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.920
Dec. 30 Tim Miller was onboard.
He was not onboard for the Jan7th dive.

    
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #959 on: Today at 03:44:03 PM »
Magnolia, you almost got it.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.940

You don't need to be an account to see how people run a business I think.
Now who was allowed onboard.


This is corruption and a cover-up.
In the words of Robots: "count on it"!






   

So Cheny was there for a meeting in 2005, does 2 and 2 make 4???

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap_model_fishhuts.jpg)
photo courtesy Klassend

And I know you will throw stuff at me, but Halliburn does have a sister company that makes or uses Uranium....

Smok'n! very good always.

whiskeygirl:
What videoclip?  Do we know?

Oil is big business I think.
 ::MonkeyCool::

AND you WILL all get them.
I won't rest until you do and we put these criminals behind bars.

Gutentag Ms. Klassend.

Time for moi to catch some files, none in the cage tonight for ol kermmie.

It appears then that the hitler sources likely all came from Joran with the possible exception of Deepak who may just as well have been rehearsed and Lying For Joran.

Can any of you out there check to find out if either Deepak or Satish has applied for Aruban Dutch citizenship and passport?

OK, fish traps. They're wire or welded and have a way for the fish to get inside rather like a funnel, but no way out. It will have a gate of some sort for the user's convenience. A similar cage may also be used to grow small fish into bigger fish.

Man
23 jaar oud
Reno, NEVADA
Verenigde Staten
Laatste login: 21-11-2008

That is not what I was looking for.  The picture of this cage keeps resurfacing and I could not figure the importance of it.  Did someone think NH was put in one?  Is this why it keeps surfacing with the title of a tennis shoe in it and is this the where TM thought or believes he saw a skull?  This is what I meant.  Probably did not convey my thought very well.  I do that sometime when I am thinking and writing and then don't go back and edit.

So if Cheney ( very big on Halliburton at the time) came to the Islands but did not step on Aruba, instead other people were there with guns.  Do we know who these other people were and where they met???

Yes Mariloo.  Every time I see your name I think about that song.  Well hello Mariloo, goodbye heart, sweet Mariloo, Im so in love with you..................................

Cheney while in office can't have anything to do with Halliburton,and or any other business that would conflict with his "Public service"..

Thanks.  Ya'll move so fast in here, my little monkey mind is still trying to figure the other clues.  The fish trap got me.  It appears so big, like you may be able to put several bodies in it.  And then we think someone cleaned the cage.  By George, I think I got it now ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

MONKEY BREAD AND MONKEYRITAS MY HOUSE TONIGHT.  YA'LL COME.

This is from a thread at BFN, it was brought over from FOB.  FOB is long gone, but traces remain.  In retrospect, some interesting stuff.


Apparently Joran is Catholic.  I always thought Joe T. said something like Anita is Catholic.  I'm inclinded to believe AVDS is related to the Queen.

If not around the pool to create stories, what was he doing there?

While Cheney holds office, his interest in Halliburton is held in a blind trust.
Which means he is still making money on it....he just doesn't know how
much, supposedly  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Makes ya wonder??Again.Did Air-Force 2 go down there?And again what was the purpose?

I had totally forgotten about the fisherman's hut that was supposedly broken into.  I remember knife but I never dreamed a trap this big was what they were talking about.  I kinda skipped over that cause it did not make sense and I do not believe unless you had a crane, this could have been done.  This is steadied my mind now, I know how it fits.  I was trying to make sure this was the one also that TM was talking about seeing a skull in.  I am satisfied now.  Thanks

Whiskey, whatever that was from Joran via MF (was that scuba's daughter?) was hilarious, just about nothing in that text is true. Nothing.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::  Granny Toad, call them as you see them.

granny, I know you have always thought "cesspool"  -- but tell me WHY (other than an educated guess), please!

Oh!  So this was quite an unusual find.

Klaas or any moderator.  Do you still have the first thread about Natalee?  Just curious.  I know there was a problem once and we lost all out posts.   Just curious if it is backed up on a disk somewhere and if they are for sale?

2NJ that page fulla hooey is SO bad it has Beth at the school with posters when that was Jug and his friends. Beth at that time was at the polis station viewing the security video that Paul was busy at ISA lying to say the video films were broken, that's why Joran wasn't seen on them.

No I'm not joking one bit.

OK Wreck - me and the cesspool.  Don't know if you recall Blacklable, the kids called him Blackie, he'd stay up nights chatting at RWV even after he went over to Curacao, gave me the cesspool idea. And it's not a bad one, overall. What cesspool was to me though is more an icon, about all the places Aruba refused to search and would not allow to be searched.

Brains searching out patterns - it sure didn't take me long to figure out I could read Papiamento  

There is the Natalee Holloway Archives.  Not all the posts but some were recovered.

Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=collapse;c=4;sa=expand#4

We had some Trolls back then. 

It appears surprisingly huge in the video showing the divers..
It must weigh a ton and it would have to be launched by a crane, off a professional fishing ship similar in size to the ships shown on the T.V. show "The Amazing Catch"
These Ships are 150 foot long or bigger and have Cranes mounted on them to pick the cages  and special platforms to launch them. There is a long rope tied to the cage with a buoy that floats on the surface of the ocean, so they know where the trap is located. They also have special hoists to bring them up from the bottom.
These ships are very large and they can stack 100 or more of these traps on deck.
If the traps are not tied down properly they can fall off in heavy seas. We have seen Persistence in very heavy seas working.
I looked for the long rope but did not see one ..Then again my view was limited by the video.
So how did this one trap get there ? The traps/cages shown to us in the beginning were able to be moved manually by 2 men..
Lie granny wrote they were made of light guage wire.

I remember "Blackie"!

Yes, we all figured after awhile that Pap is the language of deception -- we all could understand it after a few weeks.

We'll NEVER know, we're just the arse***** that had to pay for all the shenanigans that have just about crippled our country.  Remember that crook of a VP had his energy meeting, Congress requested information, denied all access under the shield of USA Security, yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Greed & evil combined makes for a horrible concoction.

When you say cesspool, are you talking about a unit for one family or something larger for more familes???  Are they covered???  Are they like a retaining pond????

We just don't understand their "system"!!! ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Because Halliburton is going to lay the pipeline. IMO
That plane can only use the call sign Air Force II if Cheney is on board.
He was there, but never got off the plane.
I don't know who went to the Persistence, but the Persistence booked
it outta there as soon as Cheney took off.
It is Cheney in cahoots with Scheffer and Silvestri.

Always1,  I think, and I am not the Grannytoad, that she is suggesting that it represents a number of areas on Aurba where something hideous does, or did occur, not a "physical structure" cesspool. 

The house I grew up in had a cesspool.  About 2 feet wide, circular, remove the cover & it's just a deep hole filled with **** waste from the house.  We lived there 10 years before it ever had to be cleaned by a service & that was while a family of 11 came to stay for an extended amount of time.

Could definitely dump an adult body into it for sure & after enough time for decomp the only way I would see a body being able to be detected would be to empty the cesspool & go through the contents, ughhhhhh & yekkkkkkk come to mind.  Doubt any such thing happened on LieRuba.

Goodun' Granny!!! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

What year was that?  I thought the speculation that it was condi rice on board?  Was that this past year in December/January?

Ok, duh, ok.

I always thought the "MF" moniker was apropos, and never stood for Media Freak. ::MonkeyWink::

I believe it was around March 1st of '08.Please correct me if i'm wrong!

If you look on the main forum page there are some of the old 2005 archives available.  I believe it's only June 2005 though, we are still missing quite a bit.  There was a disc with those old posts and I don't know what ever happened to it.  It would NOT be for sale though, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Cheney was NOT on Aruba -- only the plane "normally" used as Airforce 2. (It's identical to Airforce 1 for that matter). Cheney was in Washington that weekend. For all you cooking up a conspiracy with Cheney, Haliburton, and Silvetti are smoking crack.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hmmmm, cause I thought Cheney stayed on Venzula and Air Force II landed in Aruba..................................

O.K. My opinion only is the trap being found in the ocean was it was planted there to cover up the REAL reason for the ocean floor mapping.  I think that story was put out there (possibly by Jossy) to cover for the real reason the Persistence was there.  How convenient when it was all cleaned out they up and hi-tailed it out of there.  I don't believe this was a trip to find Natalee but a trip to map the ocean for a pipeline.  Who paid for it?  I don't know but this all had something to do with Venezuela and Chavez and the FARC kidnappings.  It was just convenient that Natalee was missing in the area and this was probably sanctioned by our own government. Anything less  and the Aruban government WOULD NEVER have allowed them to be within site of their shores.  I think Aruba bribe the US by saying they can search for Natalee but the maps they did of the ocean HAD to be turned over to them.  Mission accomplished.  IF that was Natalee in that cage then no one and I repeat no one in Aruba ever believed she was in that ocean and were probably as shocked as Tim Miller was when he viewed the monitor and said It Looks Like a Skull.

JMO

Cheney was NOT on Venezuela either. Tensions were high as Venezuela was mounting troops on the border of Columbia that weekend. Airforce 2 was there filled with State Department/CIA operatives to monitor the situation.

We are talking about 2008, the same weekend that The Persistence left Aruba. IF Cheney was in Aruba in 2005 - it was BEFORE Natalee even went missing.

The Fish Trap

Caps explained the fish trap to us one night.  It is a large commercial size.  He referred to it as a "post office" and it stayed there in that spot.  Drug dealers from Colombia brought heroine and cocaine to the fish trap and deposited it.  Aruban dealers then picked up the drugs and moved them to Holland.  In return, the dealers in Holland sent ecstacy back to Aruba.  The ecstacy was put in the "post office" where it was then picked up by the Colombians.

Really, how do you know that???

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.180

Diario Newspaper March 1st 2008
Air force 2 owing to descend at aruba ... maximum security at airports
 saturday, 01 march 2008 oranjestad (aan):

Last aeropuerto of aruba was have extra security hour cu air force 2, one c-boeing 32 owing to descend. For of nightfall end was talk of the arrival of the plane here at aruba, which is esun ordinarily using for transport of the vice president of markets. Polisnan owing to being notifies for extra surveillance of airport rond. So cu owing to the plane descend 9'or of diabierna one night quantity of equipment owing to send for being give pabao attendance at the part where the plane owing to staciona. Was talk cu dick cheney will is there of the plane cu all his own safety cu owing to achieve autorizacion for march arm at aruba. Esnan cu owing to arrive there will bandona aruba monday morning.

Saturday morning will actuate the plane for one more part pabao close of caserne of bombero because airport is druk and the plane is coy much space. The part which is close cu plane is using for bay runway will let the air force 2 stop. On the photograph here can see more of the plane just past hour cu owing to descend at end of aruba.

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1267&Itemid=30

Hey Wreck, About crack, I prefer cigars!!!!!!!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I've been reading and reading and now I'm more confused then ever. Caps and Kermit have great info. but how do we KNOW what's the TRUTH? Can someone answer?

Cajun Miracle

I think that Kyle was too good at his job.  They never expected him to
locate a trap with human remains inside.  When he did, they had to do
something about the problem and intended to just cover it up, but Robin
had posted the pictures on the internet....oops!

It's interesting that back on August 11, 2005 people were wondering why the VDS and Kalpoe residences hadn't been searched.  I wonder what may have been lurking in the VDS compound that time hadn't swept away?  No meaningful search of the VDS place has ever taken place.  The sands of time move and and have a way of covering up and moving evidence.

A day late, a Euro short...

Also, the gay reference start back in 08/05.  Wasn't it Guido's lawyer who made a point of saying his client was gay?  And people wanted to know why that made a difference.

Circle back to the friends and family and coworkers of PVDS = judges.

Also, since I hit the post button and am delayed by new posts...

I recall reading that Aruba has over a thousand illegal dump/cleanup sites needing a good cleaning.  It was something the authorities have taken under control.  Also, the Valero site has a number of places that could hide a body.  Machinery that never stops, fires, toxic places onsite from before WWII...and a nearly headless man.




blacklable had lots of wisdom to share.  IMHO, he seems to identify some of the early rumors and why...
jmho

Yep, I remember that.

Caps explained the cage to us many times.  It's over in Shango.  His most recent post about the heroine and ecstacy in the cage was in the thread before the one we just finished.  It's in the last 5 or 6 pages.  According to Caps there was a large drug transfer going down at the same time that Natalee met her demise.  Some of the group at the Matty Apts. were also involved in a drug transfer that same night.

The speculation in Aruba (and here at SM) was that Cheney was on board. Monkeys checked it out and Cheney was in Washington. We were HOPING that Cheney and Air Force 2 was there to bring Natalee home (via a "Diplomatic pouch"). Unfortunately, the plane was there (as I mentioned above) to monitor the feuding between Venezuela and Columbia.

If I recall, Destiny even called the White House to find out if he was in Washington that weekend.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

::MonkeyHaHa:: I prefer Cigars too!!! (hope you aren't "Monica" )

Who's Monica?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Come on. Tell me who's Monica so that I can laugh too.

Monica Lewinksky, of the White House, with the Pres.

Ah Sh@t! That IS too funny. NO I'm not Monica.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

There is speculation the the radar "wasn't working" or was "intentionally turned off" that night because a large drug transfer was planned.

Yep, birds on the wire.

Hey, I read Magnolia's post at the end of the last thread. Kermit came on this thread and made the coment that she almost has it right. What do all of you think?

Well, I will go fold clothes (women's work) and call a friend of mine who is FBI, now head of security over all NFL Games. 

Always, I like your avi but miss that awesome black cat.

|thank you,

Hey Klaas. Our post numbers are not changing. Didn't know if you needed this info.

I have a question...are you saying that John Silvetti was involved in a cover up of the evidence contained within the cage that was located at the bottom of the ocean and that others of which I won't name at this time was part of this cover up? 

When did ALE finally dig up the beach?  Years?

I didn't mean to imply you were joking....I understood all of it....the last sentence in your post was the clincher.  Sorry, I've had to be away for a while.

I think it was confirmed that Cheney's plane was only on Aruba and not the Vice President himself.  Why do I even bother...no one is listening to me anyway? :roll:

Got you covered!!  ::MonkeyCool::

I can't tell if you are asking me or Kermit.....but, as for me that is exactly
what I think.  I think at least a part of Natalee was in that cage.

You need to find Klaas' "beating a dead horse cartoon".

sorry, Lala's, hard to type while Im getting  my butt kicked.....

Speculation without proof is still speculation.  I am waiting for the proof. Sorry...that's how I am...only Shango gets my attention without proof.  ::MonkeyWink::

I understand.

I am about to stop beating that horse, because it does no good. LOL 

Really tryin to grasp this cover-up thing in the ocean??I may be slow.LOL

Well, I meant Kermit..but you honestly think that John Silvetti was part of some scheme to cover up the contents of the cage?   John Silvetti?

Are you people saying that John Silvetti was actively working with ALE to cover up what was in that cage and that it was Natalee in that cage?  Is that what is being touted in all this confusion? 


John Silvetti
ALE
Mos

All working together???  Are you people serious?

You're not alone.

If my memory seves me at all, when TM stated he thought that was a skull in the cage, the search ended.  Hence, coverup????   

and you think that Silvetti and others of his team were involved in the "cover up"?

I agree Lala's. We had found this out.

(http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?s=c07b71c26b4d4113baae3ede7946c50f&attachmentid=55073&stc=1&d=1142459373)

Me personally.That's what i'm trying to understand!

Follow the money.  Maybe some do not want additional water searches...it's bad for the casino business.  Scares the tourists away.  Who knows what lurks in the water around Aruba?

How much do the key players in the NH case have invested in casinos?  Timeshares?  Condos?

I remember that speculation in other places to.

What would investors be willing to do to get tourists back?  Get the money flowing through casinos?

Is the money on the island in oil refinery?  The US in on the road to oil independence in 10 years.  What interest does the US have in oil around Aruba?

Who would have such an interest?  China?  China has the contracts in Iraq.  China has the contracts and oil fields in Darfur. 

China in Aruba next?  Weren't the Chinese investigating Aruba for 'tourism' a year or so ago?  Maybe they were really looking for oil?  Isn't China in Cuba too?

Or casinos?  Money laundering?  Drugs?

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

(http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_2.gif)

I DO think that it was a skull and possibly Natalee. So, what happened to it and the shoe? Also, what was tested by FBI besides the denim? Shouldn't we know by now? I WANT TO KNOW!

No, I do not believe Silvetti was involved, but you do...correct?

Ok, that was my understanding.  Straighten me out.

Let me get this straight....John Silvetti and the crew of the Perisitence were involved in a cover up of magnitude proportions concerning the contents of the cage?  Silvetti was working in cooperation with Mos and ALE to make this happen because it really was Natalee in the cage?   

This is actually what some of you believe?

Are you talking about when K went ashore from the boat and maybe something went on to cover up while he was gone?

The fish cage was used for drug transfers.

No!!  I am asking if that is what Kermit is saying. 

John Silvetti.....I think that they had no idea that they would
find Natalee.  That was not the real mission.  There was nothing
to do but cover it up because of the govts' involvement.
As you said it is all just speculation on my part.
I am almost sure that unless Cheney is on the plane, they
have to use another call sign.

Good question Jossy.  

What did the maps the F-16 made of the ocean look like?  

If the Dutch had maps, I wonder why they were so anxious to get the ones the Americans were making?  Didn't the F-16's share?

Follow the money.  The Dutch had the maps all along!

Can I ask this question? What if it was Natalee and the coverup was to get her to the US FBI. When Robin posted those pictures, that's when it came out in the open. Well, could this be the case and why no one will tell what the FBI did test?

About the alleged drug transfer going on that night...

- Wasn't Steve Croes sleeping in a boat just outside the H.I. the night Nat went missing (Tattoo shuttle boat)? What is he, some sort of cage monitor?

- Didn't H.I. security guards mention two guys walking on the beach and that they were never seen again?

- Didn't H.I. security guards say that some MBers were swimming in the ocean outside the H.I. until the early morning hours?

- Weren't there fishermen who said they saw nobody on the beach at all that night?

- Wasn't there a fisherman who said he saw a man carry a woman into the ocean that night?

- Wasn't there a rumour in the very beginning that a boat was missinng? 

What else happened in the beach/water that we have read about? (That's all I can recall).

   

NOT ME.  I don't for one minute believe that...

Who said they used the call letters "Air force 2"??? They did not. They used the same plane as "Air Force 2" -- but if the Vice- president is not on board - it is not called "Air force 2" by Traffic Controllers.

They must be old school drug smugglers.Up here in the Northwest,as well as British Columbia the BIG Marijuana growers take there shipment's of Marijuana out deep into the waters of the puget sound,as well as the pacific.They drop their shipments down with a GPS,as well as timed Air-balloons to surface at the appropriate times for pick-up.Just sayin......

Maybe the ARU-BAY videos???  Wouldn't that be cool?

The FBI testing results were sent to MOS and he said that they tested the fabric, and it did not match her "blouse"  if the fabric was denim, and i believe it was, was it tested against the denim skirt she was wearing? No response (nor testing?) regarding the skirt at all.  I think that is what OE was saying since the results were  shared.   he said what MOS said was truthful, but there were lots of buts there in my opinion.....What the Aruba authority's asked to be tested were the fabric against the blouse, no match. they did not ask for the skirt to be tested.  MOO

Dead horse...baby...dead horse!

But if people of importance on the island are involved and government officals turn a blind eye, Aruban drug dealers don't have to be as creative as they are in the US.  "The bird left the wire" and the radar was turned off so the transaction would not be recorded by radar.  Aruba is noted for drug smuggling.

Please tell me how you test the demin in relation to Natalee's skirt if there is no skirt to test?

I used it in a earlier post.Believe i read it in a Diario article.Please correct me if i'm wrong!

http://www.news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1267&Itemid=30

That does not make any sense.  The skirt was denim, the blouse was not denim, but a more sheer material.   ::MonkeyShocked::

But remember, Kyle will NOT comment on the other things that the FBI has tested and what was in the ziplocks? Hmmmmmm!

Good Questions.....I like the way You think Cajun Miracle!

I lived in Seattle for a while - up on the plateau.  I wouldn't go into that cold Puget Sound for any reason.

The announced to the world they were looking for Natalee and yet they were surprised to find her????  No real mission???  I am absolutely astounded at some of these comments...not yours in particular...just some of them. 

Don't know this but I wonder if you can obtain DNA from material that had been in the water?

where did they get the blouse fabric to test? same thing.

Up towards the San Juan islands and a little more North.Some great scuba diving from what i hear.Plateau.meaning "Issaquah"???

Kyle did not reveal the ziplocks story that was Private Eye that did that.  So you think Kyle was in on this cover up too with Silvetti?

It's been almost 1 year and we still haven't heard what was tested or the outcome of the testing. (Besides the denim) Even Kyle said this week, that he would not comment. Are they waiting to catch more people before commenting?

No Kyle would not lie. mho

I don't, I think he was sent ashore in order to make a few nonchalant adjustments

Heritage Hills which is a little closer to Redmond.  It was next to Sahalee.

Kyle is not the person that let the ziplock story slip out...it was Private Eye.  Kyle never said anything other than he would discuss it off the forum with Private Eye.  We were not privy to the rest of the story.

Why would PI bring up zip locks? 

Lake sammamish area!Beautiful area.Back to Justice for Natalee.Pleasure to meet you SS. ::MonkeyWink::

Quite simply, the Aruban paper was wrong. They ASSUMED it was "Air Force 2" because it was the the same plane as "Air Force 2". Same plane -- just not the VP on board.

So they tested the DENIUM to see if it matched her blouse that was not made of denium.   Kyles comment was MOS was accurate in that the FBI testing did not match the blouse, and I believe a like blouse was provided by Beth.  I am not stating this the way my mind see's it.  Kyle is not involved in the cover up at all. IMO

Lala's, how would you interpret the lover frog's post at http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.580  Reply 594?

OK This is just my opinion. After Tim left so suddenly and the Peter tapes were shown, Beth seemed more at peace. That is another reason that I think that something of Natalee's was found and tested. Why these results have never been reported, I have no idea since it has been almost 1 year. I still feel that the skull was brought back to the US and tested, so that Aruba wouldn't have control over it.

correct, but the results only are for the match to the blouse!!

Thanx for the clarification.Wasn't tryin to insinuate Cheney was on that plane!Was also clarifying that Cheney can't deal with his halliburton stuff while his tenure as VP is still going...

Thanks!  I'm on the opposite coast now. 

Excellent question!


Goodnight monkeys.

Kermit has given us all clues to investigate.  I don't believe that Kermit would lead us down this road if there is nothing to it.  I don't know John Silvetti personally, and I don't know his heart.  I do know that he is human.  I have considered him and well as all of the other Crew of the Persistence "Heroes" just like everyone else.  It has been awful to realize that any of them could have assisted in covering up what was actually found.  IMO OE even has some questions about what was going on during the final days regarding the cage.  I'd heard about a disagreement among some on the boat long before this recent discussion, didn't think much about it as they were all probably exhausted...thought about it a lot lately.  Do I think that Kermit may be right?  Yes, I do; and I want the facts.  JMO

For Natalee, that's what it's about.  

 ::MonkeyCool::

Greta has info. coming up NOW about Urine.

Please post a summary as i'm not in front of a TV Cajun.Thanx! ::MonkeyWink::

Denim

Whick would work? Offer Kermit some treats or threaten to fry his legs.

joran is going on live with Greta Monday.  Why wait till Monday??????????
 ::MonkeyConfused::

thank you for the spelling lesson.  geeze

Sh!!t, she showed an interview with Urine and that's what Monday will be about. I can't believe she would believe anything that he says. I hope that I'm wrong but this doesn't look like it will solve anything.

It seems like Joran is saying the police are not going to help so he may as well.   ::MonkeyShocked::

That has been my belief as well. But the longer we have gone without it being made public has me questioning it.

Excellent Post.  This mirrors my thoughts exactly.  I have brought this up many times and no one seems to even want to think about it.  I do not know the searches personally so I can not make a personal character judgement about them.  I do agree that giving of your time and effort to search for someone is very selfless.  I have tried to follow the leads that Kermit has given us because it makes sense to me.  I have another question,  where did the money come from for this search?  Silvetti and Luis Schaefer were both in financial trouble at this time and I do not believe they had this kind of money to donate?!?

Yep Mariloo. This may be anoth crock of ____! I'm pissed!

no spelling leson sunny.


Denom.

He likes San's treats! ::MonkeyCool::

Greta better hope she has something of some value or many people will be even more disgusted with her!I'll keepthefaith until proven otherwise.I've been proven otherwise in the past but never will lose Faith that everyone's prayer's will be answered in time.WOULD LIKE IT A LITTLE SOONER THEN LATER LORD...PLEASEEEE ::MonkeyCool::

I can't tell you or I will have to kill you. ::MonkeyCool::

Ok, playlike this huge, heavy trap that had been in the ocean was used as a drop off for drugs, then the boys killed Nat, how in the hooty hell did they get her in the trap, how do they put drugs in the trap for a drop???? 

Greta has Joran on tape.

However when joran speaks he lies.

Joran is going to be on her show, live??????  Well then, problem solved, I will just call and and ask him to tell me the whole story.

Halliburton being brought up again, tonight, I tried to find the old Valero website, but much is gone....I do know that one rep was there at the time Natalee disappeared....not saying he was involved, personally, but it was something I had researched early.


http://www.valero.com/NewsRoom/BoD/02-Bradford.htm


(http://www.valero.com/NR/rdonlyres/D9109B5B-1A72-49CE-BB00-6F8F682CD6F6/0/bradford.jpg)

 retired Chairman of Halliburton Company

Greta had Beth on the other night. Greta said to Beth: 'I have kept you informed since June about our investigation' --- Beth seemed pleased.

I am not correcting spelling.   

Treats definitely!  I'll be shopping for some later!   ::MonkeyWink::

Don't wory, Greta is giving him enough rope to hang himself with.  I want to hear what he has to say.  I wonder who he will blame next.  He will come clean one day and it may be Monday and I hope and pray it is.  Aruba are saying they have seen her information and talked to a witness earlier (March) and discounted but I don't trust them as much anymore than I trust Joran.  He will give up a clue oneday we can prove and then we can hang him.  If I seem cruel, I believe in an eye for an eye.  I just want to see justice done for Natalee.  God bless her poor family to have to put up with all this for so man years.

Oh, Bless you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This better be good to give this Urine time on TV.Period....

But, what if they haven't caught all of the ones that are involved. I really don't know anymore.

Natalee was NOT put in the trap by "the boys." She was put there by a "bigger boat" days/weeks later.

I will repost my theory from February '08 again:



Quote from: wreck on Today at 03:20:36 PM
I'm going to dig a bigger hole for myself as I think few are following what I'm saying.
1) The Persistence in all likelihood has found Natalee in the trap.
2) They really did not want to expose this just yet. Why? Because they still need to "prove"
the "whys" and "hows". They have a better chance of accomplishing this if the actual "perps"
aren't "clued in."
3) Why the "Dateline" irregularities? Because "Dateline" was already on board and they had to
 keep up "appearances" so they could continue with their "plan."
4) The posting of the pics on the internet put a severe cramp in their plans.
5) Why is trap so big? Because the body disposal did not happen that night as in Joran's story.
 Her body was put there at least a few days later by a bigger boat involving a larger cover-up.
This why they did not reveal their "finding" yet. They want to find out who has that bigger boat.

Once again -- my opinion.

We have waited 3 years -- hold on -- we're almost there!


~~~~~~ (Ocean Explorer:
I also pray that you are right!  Wreck, I like the way you think. 
Wreck, then what are your thoughts on Mos's press release about the FBI results?

Don't know - don't care what Mos says or does. I trusted him up until Thanksgiving time. Never again.

trainwreck .gif =  (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x58/rorothe/trainwreck.gif)

Will have to watch tonight at 10pm as i'm on the westcoast and stay at the shop till 9!One would think that Greta would not let herself be made a fool of twice..

Well, if they can put drugs in that cage, they sure as hell can put a skull, tennis shoe, and knife in there too.  When I asked Kermit about this, he alluded to the fact that "why would you put a tennis shoe in with the skull?  to insure that the evidence points to you and you will not talk!"  He also alluded that Kyle gave the tennis shoe to the FBI.  I asked him how Kyle got the shoe.  His reply was "exactly, he is just a boatman". 


Ok, I'll probably be slammed but that is ok.  I can go get the posts but everytime I do no one listens anyway.  But this convo with Kermit has always bothered me.  Now, with more info give by Kermit, it is making more sense to me.  I did research on the Silvetti Group and Luis Schaefer, both in financial trouble big time.  People do desperate things in desperate times.

I am just saying..........

All I will say is Kermit may think he knows some things, but I fear he is way off base in some of his ideas and I have very good reason to say this.  He is entitled to his opinions just as all of us are.  However, to insinuate that John Silvetti is part of some massive cover up to hide the contents of the cage and that Natalee's remains were in there and not offer anything even if it is speculation that has some merit is more than I can believe.  I dearly love Kermit...but unless he can show me where John Silvetti, Hans Mos, ALE, Schaeffer and the crew of the Perisistence are all in this together along with a few others that I am suspecting Kermit may think is involved...I will not accept it as anything other than speculation.  I would like to know how Dave Holloway feels about a person he and Tim Miller have had a close working relationship with being accused of this.  My opinion of course, but one in which I am entitled to. 

Thanks Kycat, and believe me I've been thinking about it constantly!

JMO....the drug dealers were at the filming at the Matty apts.
They put her in when they dropped the drugs.
I wonder how they do it too.  Somebody must dive.

Shush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  All the monkeys are thinking!!!!!!!!!! ::MonkeyTongue::

Thanks for the help since I'm not great at posting picts. Hope that this works to get more info. He/She sure is a sly one.

And they would need a boat with a boom (think JAWS Hahahahah)

Wreck, I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not saying that Silvetti and Schaefer did not want to find Natalee but I do think they were killing two birds with one stone.  They may not have intentionally tried to cover up something?!?  But I truly believe that part of Natalee was in that trap.  Maybe Silvetti sent those pictures to his sister to post so it would screw up the ALE coverup?  Hope so. 

I believe that Natalee is in different places.  The whole thing makes me sick.  I just want Natalee to be brought home and the people responsible to be punished.  If that means asking questions that others think are totally ridiculous or posting unpopular opinions, so be it.  I have no problem with that.  If I am wrong about something I will be the first to admit it and say "sorry".  But it is not about me or us, it IS about Natalee.  All the research, opinions, theories, speculation, and even wild goose chases are what it is all about to get to the bottom of this.

MOO

Remember they have to wait for the Babiloians to open the coker.....

KYcat, I'm listening to you. Good reminder of what OE said.

Ok Im going to say this one time and I will be done.  There is someone very close to my family who knows John Silvetti and knew him way before Natalee went missing.  This man is a class act.  He went into this to find Natalee and help her family.  He is in NO way a part of a coverup! It is an insult to this man to even suggest that he is a part of a cover up.  You who beliive this should be ashamed.   You all can choose to believe what you want and you can choose to blindly follow anyone you want but it does not change the FACTS.  I am just sorry that people choose to follow someone who does not even know this man and who in my opinion says things to draw attention to himself.  Sadly theer have been way too many people who have claimed to know stuff who don't have a clue!

Did you ever condider that Blonde's plactic bag photos
were acutally what they seemed and were waiting there
to be picked up and be put into the fish trap?

Are there trawlers in Aruba?  Any shrimping going on there.  Lobster hunting or whatever you call in.  I was thinking these boats have a huge hole in the middle they fill up with ice to keep the catch fresh.  NH's body may have been stored there or the pieces of her body.  Boy, I hope this did not happen.  I really hope she is in one piece somewhere and the family will have a whole body to bury.

I like the ways you all think..  ::MonkeyDance::
Never be worried about going out on a limb to posting how you feel. After 3.6 years or more you are all very educated on the subject matter. You have to have some hair on your chest to be here this long. ::MonkeyWink::
I post my research and defend myself to the death. I have no fear because I know what I post is the truth as I have researched it myself and understand it.
God Bless Beth and Dave Holloway and may all your hard work effort in reading, research and educated opinions help to keep the story alive by asking quality questions and ultimately help to bring a final and truthful answer to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
We want the truth !! We want Justice for Natalee !! We will not stop until we have it !

God I love the Good fight.. ::MonkeyCool::

Yep, I've had the exact same thought.   ::MonkeyCool::

All I am going to say is that I have looked at some of the information & I believe that the American's did as they are intelligent enough to do.  We American's have some heroes.

I appreciate the lover frog's input for without it I wouldn't have looked around as much as I did & now my soul is a bit more restful for I don't think the Aruban's were successful at all, quite the contrary & ************************* in your hat LieRuba & disgraces to the professions that are shipped from the Netherlands, American's are not all traitor's & are not stupid even though they can be polite.

I think that there are American traitor's, they came on scene very early on in 2005 & the Dutch have traitor's as well who so willingly covered up this travesty & constantly participated in completely false propaganda & misdirection of every sort right down to dealing face to face with the family of Natalee.  My fervent prayer is that it all comes home to roust & they are all revealed for just what they are; greedy soul less creatures that have no values & loyalty to nothing but money.

Thanx for bringing this back to my attention.Any threads on the bigger boats that could have carried this cage out there.Sure there are many boats going back and forth to other surrounding countries...

Goodnight all.  I hope you have this solved by morning.  I am sleepy.

Im going too, my eyes are burning like xenon in the night.....

So, do you also think that the coverup was really that they DID bring some of her home? Then they are heros but can't tell anyone.

Casa, I do not know John Silvetti.  He may be a saint.  I am not ashamed of looking for clues to solve this case.  I do apologize if I have offended, because posting negative comments about anyone on the internet is offensive.  I think we are grasping at any clues or information that we can to try to find the answers we need.  I did research Silvetti and Schaefer.  I will say that my suspicions lean more toward Schaefer.  He does have connections in the NL that make me go hmmm. 

If you can, please answer this question, did Silvetti attend a Mansur wedding?  Does he have a connection to Jossy?    IIRC, Caps was talking about Silvetti as related to the pond search.  He said that he had spoke with John regarding when the search would be performed.  Now, I don't know who CAPS is but how does he know John Silvetti?  It appears that John had connections to Aruba prior to Natalee's search.

Agan, I am not trying to upset you.  Please do not take offense.

Casa, I agree with you 100%.  What was John going to get anyhow if he did find Natalee?  Alot less then what he actually put into the search.  I believe in Kyle also.  If he says you can't do that kind of scanning with "that" boat, then who knows better then him?  He does that for a living.  It is totally ungrateful to even think someone would go over there for the sake of themselves.  It's dangerous to begin with.  Trust me, been there, done that.  I have been watching this for days, I am sorry, I had to pop in.

Thanks Edward. I do believe that she will have justice.

EXACTLY  Joran said he put her in the mangroves,......well thats exactly where the basin i,  right at the mangroves.

Or a hoist.  I don't think you can dive 90feet without tanks.

A fisherman said he saw a man 'carry something' into the water.
Sander Gottenbos said he invited Joran on his boat.

Yes, I would consider Blonde's plastic bag contents being dropped off into the fish trap.

Especially with Steve Croes all alone on a boat in the middle of the water, just outside the H.I. that night.

Forgot to mention that Sander reported his own cell phone missing that day at school.

(as in Joran's comment to Kalpoes "If the find the girl they will see the sh*t"... so the sh*t is the missing sneaker, the lost cell phone... yada yada yada...)

From what we have been told, Natalee could not have been put in the commercial size fish trap and then taken out to sea.  It was too big and the trap in question had been there before Natalee arrived on Aruba.  It was a drug post office for the Colombian and Aruban drug dealers to deposit their drugs.  If nothing else, the commercial fish cage and the size sure do blow away the theory that a fish trap was stolen from the fisherman's huts.  The fish trap that disappeared from the huts was small.  According to the dimensions that were given by Dr, Hodge, the fishtrap from the huts would have been about the size of a queen size bed.  Caps told us that a crane would be necessary to lift the commercial trap in the photographs.  I don't think Urine and his friends put that cage in the ocean.

She was put in the cage at the same time as the scheduled drug drop, probably a few days later. jmo

Hey, for SW Louisiana it sure is cold tonight--37 already. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I have no information that Silvetti attended a Mansur wedding.  I have no information that he has a connection to Jossy. Actually I don't think that Caps knew John Silvetti and I don't think that Silvetti had any connections to Aruba before the search.  This is my opinon:  People cannot accept that the crab trap was in no way connected to Natalee and want someone to blame.  People were seeing all kinds of things in that trap that just were not there.  Believe me I want this case solved badly but seeing things and saying that people are covering up will not solve this.

CAPS knows Silvetti from me  Silvetti did do the pond and then they wouldnt let him back in after all the maps were made of the pond.  About Jossy, i know nothing about that.  I was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.  And I do know who CAPS is.  This boat that may have taken the trap away, if anything was the Gottenbos boat.  I too feel that they have what they needed to bring home, and thats why we hear nothing.  

Thank you Hotshot. Silvetti had nothing to gain by participating in a coverup.

I'm seriously not trying to denigrate anyone  -- because I am only speculating on facts that I know to be true. The Persistence may not have been exploring for oil -- BUT they MAY have been mapping the ocean floor for a possible "pipeline". They may have been doing this in ADDITION to looking for Natalee or perhaps used this data "after-the-fact". Also, they may have been asked to keep their findings "secret" (see my post from February '08 above). Kermit seems to think there is something sinister -- I just don't know. I would hate to think that. All that said, I truly think Kermit is someone who we can trust.  ( Does ANYONE here know who he really is????)

Thanks Hotshot. I also think that they brought home what they needed.

What do "they" have???

Anyone want a Cajun poose cafe for a cold night? (It's coffee pushed with booze)  ::MonkeyHaHa::

It's what some of us think was found in the cage and hidden and brought back to the FBI. It's still never been confirmed and Kyle will not comment.

I promise you I do not want to place blame.........well, I do blame Urine and ALE and Paulaus and Anita and Julia and C Croes and...... well, you get my point!!!   ::MonkeyCool::

Thank you for your post.  You were kind to me and did not sling nanners.  I am not and will not slander J Silvetti .... I was just asking questions. 

Nanner peace offering

 ::MonkeyWink::

I'm going to throw out a thought that is just something that I have considered from time to time.  I don't really believe that those boys put a fish trap on Sander's boat and took it out to sea.  It's just physically too difficult.  What if, someone had screwed a drug dealer and his body was put into the trap as a warning for those who were making the next pickup.  It's just a thought.

Yes please.    Do you have any Baileys?  Yum

 ::cartwheel::

That is possible but Kyle still won't comment on all the evidence that FBI has tested, except the denim.

You are both welcome.  I also think that seeing as the diver, "mansur" did the thumbs down for the camera, and for our sake to let things finish, as they needed to be.  Not all of the people there are crooked.  Some actually do care about finding Natalee.  

We all have our different thoughts, and I am not saying that anyone is right, or wrong here.  We all have oppinions, and if we didn't we wouldn't be normal. Thats what makes this blog great.  We will see when things finally end, that alot of us were right.  Maybe not the whole story line, maybe only bits and pieces.  But we have all contributed to this blog one way or another.  We are all here for a purpose, Thanks to Natalee.  I still stand by the girl.

Ok, I will throw something else out there then I will go smoke some crack and go to sleep.  They probably do have boats like that that go to Venezula for drug traffic, what if Paulus knew of an upcoming shipment, and that is why he went to the ATM twice to get money for his "package". 

That is what gives me hope that "FBI knows".

Yep, and a goooddd cigar!  ::MonkeyDance:: How cold is it in your area? It's really cold in mine for such an early time of year. This is usual for Jan. Enjoy your Cajun poose cafe.

I really like this theory...... so that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!  Thanks Hotshot for the info on CAPS and Silvetti.  I did not know this.

The hidden part is what's confusing me???At what point would they have been able to conceal what "They" had and get it back to the FBI??

Yep, he sure paid someone.

NO NO NO,  CRACK IS BAD.  CRACK KILLS>>>>> Besides it could have come from Aruba through Venezula.   Smoke dope and go to sleep.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Maybe a secret dive, when no one else was there. This way the important ones couldn't be blamed.

Colder than a witches ttttttttiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttyyyyyyy.  24 degrees and suppose to be 19 degrees tomorrow night.    Definitely Jan weather here too. 

Yes, don't mind if I do, take a cigar too.   

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Good to see you Hotshot!   ::MonkeyCool::

OK, just another "what if" with no other opinions offered.  What if there was denim in the trap and it was a man's jeans?

I ask these questions also because we have been told that Natalee was possibly placed in a crypt at the Masonic Cemetery.  Carpe did some good research and came up with a woman named Jalitza Wever who died on June 2nd and was buried in the cemetery.  He posted photographs of Jalitza Wever over in Shango and she really does look a little like Natalee.  My theory has pretty much always been that the fishermans huts are nonsense and that Natalee is buried on land somewhere. 

You do know that not too many girl monkeys smoke cigars? My family really gets ticked. LOL!

I don't know why I keep arguing with you - I'm sorry, but that is not how drug trafficking works. Drug deals of a large proportion don't occur with money exchanging hands at the drop off or with amounts that can be withdrawn from an ATM. Paulus went to the ATM THAT Sunday night -- Natalee was not in the big fish cage at that time.

Oh, I'm celebrating my birthday in 45 mins. so it's my treat. Yippppeeeee!

The more complicated, convoluted and all-encompassing a theory is, the less likely it is to be true.  Occam's razor and all that. 

Must be very unique drug dealers to abandon a "drop off" of any size out in the middle of the ocean like that.  Most don't seem to want to let it out of their sight.  That stuff has a way of disappearing.

Why dive 90 ft when it is not necessary at all? 

I guess Greta has what Julia was alluding to on RU a while back about another confession from Joran.  I'm going to wait and see what the Sporter has to say before thinking any farther along.  Sure, he lies but then so so lots of others.  Greta seems to think Mos can verify this with subpoena.  So I tend to think it is dealing with money transactions of some sort as well.  I wonder what caught Paulus attention so raptly?

Still see this as a fairly simple crime committed by a dolt and without the assistance of half the island.  The cover up was a bit more complicated than that but not nearly as much as all this intrigue.

I only hope that some day we do know exactly what happened to Natalee.  Maybe Monday we will know something more, anything at all will help.

Is Red  giving out prizes for cage time now???   ::MonkeyTongue::

Another thought....  If I were a sociopath who killed someone, I would want to make certain that I got away with the murder.  If I put the body in a fish cage in the ocean, someone like Persistence could come along and find it.  If I buried the body on land, I could keep an eye on it and be reassured that my secret was safe.

CASA, I WILL SHARE MY COFFEE W/ BAILEYS AND CIGAR WITH YOU IF YOU WILL FORGIVE ME?

 :roll: :smt022

May be a dumb question but,who is considered important,as well as unimportant???Must close up shop and head home in the rainy Northwest weather and will return shortly.Monkey's should all be proud!

Keepthefaith

But maybe buried in pieces.

Good to see you too Texasmom

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Also... according to Caps, the adults and important ALE people are also members of the Masonic Lodge.  They had unlimited access to the cemetery.

Yep, cigars!

Just on special occasions and since it is your birthday, I think I will smoke one!  HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU........HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU.......... MAY ALL YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE.....

 :smt038

Kycat nothing wrong with asking questions.

Not that I know of FOM, but the post count sometimes goes off...not sure why.  Good to see you...I know you stop by once in a while...

Then, I'm not following what you are proposing - help me!

Not mad at you hon!  We are ok!

Thanks Kycat, you're special too and I hope that your tit###ies don't freeze. Each new birthday is extra special since I was close to death just 4 years ago and had my miracle. Life can be so awesome and while I was so ill, I was caught up in Natalee's tragedy.

nanner basket, please.

Okay, giving birthday cake to Cajun..........  enjoy

Giving some coffee w/baileys and 1 cigar to Casa......... enjoy

Giving milk to A1.......  (oh alright, you can have some coffee with baileys too) ...... enjoy.......... but like I said no CRACK for you!!!

Giving KUDOS to all Monkeys.  Good Night.   :2waver:

Goodnight KYcat

Happy Birthday Cajun Miracle and many, many more.

Happy Birthday Cajun......

Thanks SS and Always. Cigars and Cajun poose cafe for all but NO crack.

G'nite, everyone....it's time for me, anyway. 

Bring Natalee Home.....there's no place like home... :smt049

Nit 2NJ

I think there were preventative measures taken.

Gnite all, and Happy Birthday Cajun!   ::MonkeyDance::

I also think that US was NOT dumb to all of Aruba's shinanigans.

Thanks Hotshot. Good nite.

One More Post.  LOL

Cajun, near death makes you appreciate life so much more, doesn't it.  Very thankful that you are with us.  May you Enjoy your Miracle called Life everyday.

 :smt056

 

Goodnight KYcat!

Happy Birthday Cajun Miracle!!!   ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance::

Montecristos for all that wants one! (Angie, Robots, and I have some "Opus XXX's" saved back for the final conclusion)  ::MonkeyWink::

We were also given that information.

Thanks KYcat. It's been a blessing and I do appreciate every day now. God had more for me to do then just slide down fluffy clouds.  Even my doctors call me a miracle and I just tell them to get over it. LOL! Bunch of jerks. If only we could get closure for Natalee's family.

Thanks Texasmom. And I do want some of Wreck's stuff for the conclusion, even though I have NO idea what it is. Sounds mysterious.

Goodnight Hotshot

nite nj
nite always
nite cajun
nite ss
nite wreck
nite johnboy

nite KLASS
u all rock monkeys


i hope everyone sleeps well.

They never thought that the US would bring a big ship to scan the ocean. Once the evidence was down there, they thought that they were safe but only part of her was down there.  US wanted to take NO chances that this evidence would be mishandled and lost again, so the coverup. JMO

Google Opus X cigars!  ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  I think that may be cigars too.   ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi and then Good Night all you dear posters who I am getting to know by folowing your posts.  Thanks for the lively and fascinating discussion.  And Happy Birthday to you Cajun Miracle.

There is one great thing about this forum, and that is that it is all about Natalee and Justice for her.  xox

 ::MonkeyDance:: goody, I thought right!

Sounds awesome. What about the XXX ones?

Thanks Scandi. At first I thought I was going to get some type of drugged, kinky stuff from Wreck. LOL

It's midnight and I've made another year. Yipppeeee   ::MonkeyDance:: Hey wreck, when this all finishes can I email you for one of those Opus ones and if I still have some Cubans, I'll send ya some?

Well, it IS your birthday!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::   ( about 5 years ago I had about 10 Opus X cigars @ $12. apiece -- now you MAY find  just one at about $35. each) (These aren't even "Cuban"!)

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/09/ex-commissioner-stanley-zaandam-in-his.html

9.19.2005
Ex-commissioner Stanley Zaandam in his new book KPA-Quo Vadis 2,3
To exculpate the son of Paul vd Sloot, the commissioner and fiscal falsely arrested two ex security guards
Police command nominations named as the reason of the mistake
Bon Dia Aruba
9/19/2005

ORANJESTAD – The police corps committed a blunder in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. According to ex-commissioner Stanley Zaandam, who dedicates attention to the case here and also in his upcoming publication.

According to Zaandam, the nominations - of among others Commissioners Bernardina, Dompig, Hassel and Richardson, along with 34 high-rank 1st class inspectors - which are against the law and hierarchy of the KPA [police corps], have serious consequences for the quality and integrity of work in KPA.

Accoding to Zaandam, none of the high-ranked commissioners has the qualifications nor experience to conduct a judicial investigation.

Police at the top of political list

According to Zaandam, Commissioner Dompig is under the instruction of Minister Rudy Croes, of MEP.
He also states that 20 other policemen were ranked high on a political list. Five others (…) among them Commissioner Hassell, according to Zaandam.

He also claims this is how Commissioner vd Straten was appointed to this case. However, according to Zaandam, this should not be work for a commissioner.

BLUNDER

Zaandam continues talking about the blunder under which the 3 youngsters were questioned, which should have been a simple case, but one that resulted in KPA’s biggest blunder, due to the deceiptfulness of JvdS, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, they remained free another 12 days.

FALSE ARREST

Zaandam keeps on saying in his book, two days after 5/29, the body of Natalee H. may have already been found and Cvp [police commissioner] looked the other way to do a favour for Paul vd Sloot (ex of chief staff of Cabinet PG [prosecutor general] J. Zwinkels). To exculpate the son of Paul, the CvP and fiscal chief prosecutor Karen Jansen made the false arrest of two ex-security guards, Jones and John , called this a ‘tactical maneuver’ , and denied them their freedom for another 10 days.

This, continues Zaandam in his book, is the issue here. However, he has much more to tell regarding the case of Natalee Holloway.

[translated by Getagrip]
Posted by Getagrip at 9/19/2005 12:18:00 PM

11/21/08 Awe Mainta Page 19

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MiscNews3/11212008AweMaintaZaandam.jpg)

Pap Translation:

suscrito on 5-7 november 2008 owing to haci one denunsia can escrito at ministerio publico (o.m.), esta the 2 pg, of corte comun of husticia of antias (n.a.) & aruba of the next delitonan, actonan criminal of resp. we codigo of derecho penal (wetboek.v.strafrecht/ lv.”strafrechtelijke aanspraakelijkheid ministers”) art.372ª (abuso of power ministerial intencional) — 372b(culpabilidad at owing to.d.p.m.i.)-213 (perhurio/ meineed) 230(=falsificacion can escrito/valsbeid and.g.) -323 (=ladronisia/diefstal) 334/335 (=defraude/verduistering (-den servisio/- indienstbet rekking)-339 (=estafa/oplichting)-366/372 (=kiebra y daño/vernieling ) jo.art. 49 (co-sospechoso/ mededaders) – 50 (=complicidad/ mede-plichtigheid) -art. 1 of protocol the.v.r.m, (tratado european of derecho human y of libertadnan fundamental / “europese verdrag tot beseherming v/d rechten v/d mens provided that de fundamentele vrijbeden. the articulonan relevante of “decreto penal of labamento of placa” (lv.’strafbaarstelling witwassen ab not.701’93 + not. 34/’97= wijz.)-jo. art. of ”constitushon of aruba”/ staatsregeling van aruba. c or m or ( c or ) sospechosonan,complicenan, testigonan (experto); of owing to participa because; such n’e delitonan / actonan criminal, owing to wordo denuncia the next ministronan- ambtenaarnan y another personan/ciudadanonan the.o.:1 come across.minag/minpres-n.o.oduber - 2. minjus-h.(rudy) croes -3.minfin.-n.j.j.(nilo) swaen bac.- 4.(ex)minag/minpresmr. j.fi.a.(henny) eman - 5.(ex)minjus the.j.(watty) voice ( t ) - 6. (ex) minjus mr.p.e.(eddy) croes - 7.(ex) minfin. drs.dr.r.r.(tico) croes - 8. s.e.gobernador - f.refunjol - 9.(ex) gob.- mr.o. koolman. 10.(ex) dirkagmr. j.p.boersen. - 11.(ex) dir. kag.- mr.m.bakker.-12.(ex) consehero/pr.-mr. m.g.(mike) eman(=conhunto cu his brother ex-minpres) -13.(ex) consehero/ dir.dwjz-urbano lopez y 5 dwjz hurista -14. (ex) pg y judge -mr.drs.t.croes- fernandes pedra - y 20 another name of magistradonan - 15.larvz.-mr. r.p.sommer y others of larcie - 16.h.d.p. &. or.j. drs.o.e.thijsen-lares.- 17.-19. dir.fin. drs.e.o.croesy suplentenan - therefore. v/d ham. - abrouwer. - 20. k.p.a-korpschefs -mr.r.bernadina y -p. de witte. denunciante owing to ask the 2 pg for let persigui, investiga y cuestiona all esnan upstairs menciona, y (in)directo owing to sugeri p’esey take lugar by of funcionarionan imparcial, for buena marcha of hustisia provided that conexion cu the will can come cu come across,‘un ácto of vengansa’ (=wraking). besides denunciante owing to ask by now, for present his self because;, victima, of the delitonan/ actonan criminal cometi p’esnan indica, y owing to ask damage (im)material the.o. of one suma considerable (=art.206 codigo penal/w.v.sv.). besides owing to ask the suma of afl.50.000 for cada acto criminal cu wordo comproba in tribunal. can ultimo owing to base of the words (in)directo of (ex) pg.- suplente mr.nico jorg (=20 juni’08 volkskrant—amigo- diario) y hoge raad; denuciante is wait for of achieve soon the news cu the (co)sospechosonan, complicenan owing to wordo geschors, destitui, cuestiona, in funccion because; minister/ambtenar y aresta. is become time for aruba deshaci of his minister/ambtenar-gangster /gang of bandido, hinca by 1975 in the 2-gang mep + avp in gobierno of aruba. suscrito: =(ex) c.v.p-ed/ ambt.: denunciante/victima: stanley j.zaandam flacciusstraat 25. - aruba come across

But this book by Ex-commissioner Stanley Zaandam never surfaced, did it?

well TxMom both of those articles look to be interesting but I can't make heads nor tails of the content.  Any chance Klaas can ask Sandy to attempt translation for us one language challenged posters???????

Good finds & good attempt to translate but for this dummy, don't get it.

I am trying to get a "real" translation, hopefully it will come through or Sandy Leiva will be in the cage soon and help us out.  The name just caught my eye...and some of what I could understand did too.  I never did see any more about the book after the article, and have always wondered what he had to say.

Yoooohoooo Kermit....I have something for you!  And more where that came from!  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/KERMIT/blueflip04.gif)

Does Kermit stay up this late?

My memory is foggy, but I think it was published. Will look.

I know that some time back the book was discussed by some of us here & it was said that it was never published & of course we all thought that was quite odd for he obviously had written it prior to referencing it in that newspaper article.  We were hoping  Mr. Z had neither been harmed or bought off.

Just watched Greta's teaser with Joran.The rats on the island have got to be scurrin around knowing Joran has a penchant to talk or is this his way of sayin...Send more money...

Yes, sometimes anyway.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

If not it'll be here waiting!

I have it hynotized, so all it can do is go around and around in circles until Kermit comes and gobbles it up!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I think I need some sleep!  hypnotized!  Still might not be spelled right..

Thanks for tempting him. You must be a nightowl too. Nite all.

I agree.  I thought Beth seemed completely at peace also and have suspected she must have more information.  I don't think she would just take Joran's word for it.

the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only.
<snip>
the FBI gave them to Dave H
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047



Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #740 on: March 18, 2008, 12:22:38 PM »
After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap. 
<snip>
The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.

<snip>
On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.
snip>
The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366321#msg366321


The trap contents weren't sampled until the 7th of January.  Neither Tim Miller, Tim Trahan, or Dateline were on board during this time. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366312#msg366312


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 04:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

Quote from: private eye on March 19, 2008, 02:54:38 PM
 I am curious what the circumstances were surrounding his leave from the boat he described during which the Dutch ship came close to the trap location.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366826#msg366826

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289#msg366289
Human remains were found


the items found inside the trap
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366281#msg366281



I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site
 "we do not have dive capability
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366325#msg366325

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap
<snip>
Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047

I am not telling you anything that is based upon "ideas"
I base what I tell you on FACTS!

You do not have to believe me.
BUT those who know me, know my background, know what I do, what I have done, know better then to doubt me.
That's all I'm saying. And I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.
I consider you a nice lady and I hate to see you have to say, "I'm sorry kermmie, I was wrong, you were right."

ribbit

The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.
<snip>
On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.
snip>
The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day.[/b] 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366321#msg366321

Time shall unfold what plighted cunning hides:
Who cover faults, at last shame them derides.
(King Lear)

As many times as Ms. Klassend has "run to the store" she has yet to bring poor ol kermmie a bug.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I'm sorry. But it is the truth.
You are duped by someone I guess you thought you knew.

I know who kermit is!

 ::MonkeyCool::

Burp!
and

thank you

Depends on where I am.

Now Whiskey you are catching on. Go find more:
Hint:
CMCC a SPlit! Car Show
China Mobile Communications Corp (CMCC)


NOW IN ARUBA LOOK AT THIS

24 Augustus, 2006
Bank a bid cu biaha more special!

CMCC TA FREEZE BO PAGO MENSUAL CMCC TA freeze BO
monthly payments

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Duran te un anochi masha ameno, Sr. Oranjestad
(AAN): During a MASH anochi entertaining, Mr. Javier Wolter, Gerente di CMB, a yama bon bini na tur agencia di auto y bromer, miembronan di prensa y demas invitadonan, pa sera conoci cu Caribbean Mercantile Credit Company NV su facilidadnan nobo, mas espacioso y confortabel pa e clientenan. Javier Wolter, manager di CMB, yama bon bini na tur agency di auto and bromine, miembronan di press and other invitadonan, pa be known cu Caribbean Mercantile Credit Company NV facilidadnan his nob, more spacious and confortabel pa and clientenan.
http://tinyurl.com/57uy6a


SEE SOME FAMILIAR NAMES


WE HAVE A CONNECTION BETWEEN ODUBER WANTING
TO BRING THE CHINESE TO ARUBA TO DO BUSINESS

Paulus traveled on business a lot
(kind of odd isn't it for a wanna be judge)

Paulus and Oduber and Smid attended the same University.

China Wants to Make Aruba Its Gateway to South America

On 5-24-06 ARUBAAN's news-sourced "Amigoe.com" reported:

<QUOTE>

Chinese interest in oil-prospecting near Aruba

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber(r) explaining what Aruba has to offer to Chinese investors.

As you follow the money and corruption, it will open your eyes.

1. Yes.
2. Cover-up, corruption, securities fraud.

So it is safe to assume that the corrupt will be held accountable after all, right?????

Good Morning! Trying to see if these dots connect? Seems he is called Francis?

Charles Francis Croes
Father of the Bride

John Charles Croes
Best Man

http://legacy.usw.org/usw/program/adminlinks/docs/winter-07_36-37.pdf

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000046/004613.htm

John Charles Croes grandfather's name is Carlos Croes.

Does anyone recall the pic of the trash can in Steve Croes grandparent's yard with Carlos Cros written on it?

Thanks in Advance!

I have no idea what presence Valero has around the US, I just filled my tank there yesterday. In Texas they took over many/most Shamrock stations years ago. Don't know what you need from Valero but it's not as if it's some dinky oil company local to Aruba's refinery, I already mentioned that a few days back. Online it's www.valero.com.

Vms…still opening links!

Which Jorge is in the wedding party do you think?

Arnold Solognier…I have seen those Fraduation pics before…Shango maybe?

Thanks in Advance!

Hotping, TM or SS

Where are Daury Rodriguez and Romona Del Carmen Rodriguez?

When were they arrested, do you know?

Thanks in Advance!

Here are some lingering questions -

Did anyone outside of the Dutch goverment ever see the data from the F-16?

It seemed odd in the beginning that they scanned the water when no one in Aruba seemed to believe the burial at sea idea.  They searched the dunes and found nothing.

What about other targets of interest found in the F-16 data?  Couldn't they have shared that with Persistence?  Even a map?  What exactly does all that F-16 data show?  In my mind, there has to be something.

Isn't it possible that Persistence crew would have known how to use that F-16 data?  Were they ever offered the opportunity?  Were they ever given the data? 

Maybe it was Natalee in that trap, maybe it wasn't.  Why would anyone not want to look at those other targets?  If the FBI has that stuff, where is it?

I recall that the trap was used by the fishermen.  Did they put drugs in the water?  ALE didn't know? 

If Kyle could see the divers at about the spot that he thought the cage was, is it likely that spot was used for drug shipments?  A place that could see from shore?  The same place everytime, and nobody notice?

Who in this case is related to government officials besides Joran?  Guido?  Cousin part of the bank?  Father former high ranking government official or a nobody? 

What bank do the casinos use?  Who owns all those banks in Aruba?  Who owns the casinos? 

Who besides the Aruban people have suffered?  Bank profits?  Casino profits?  Government profits?  Who is related to the banks and casinos (one way or another)?  John Silvetti?  JVDS?  PVDS?  GUIDO?

I'm thinking John Silvetti, Persistence, and the FBI are being made a convenient scapegoat for any coverup.  A convenient reason to STOP searching.  Maybe the FBI could give their information to the family of Natalee so they might find some peace?  A bone fragment?  A skull?  A piece of blouse or skirt?

People lost interest when pictures of that 'skull' were shown.  It is just a bit convenient that the skull appeared like magic, and then disappears over a few days.  Did the fishermen ID that cage?  

The truth is out there and I think some want to create distractions away from a continued search. 

What else is lurking in the water around Aruba?  Business as usual?

Mum...I 'm not sure when They were arrested but They are still in Jail...I checked just last night......I will try to call and see if I can get any information.....I'll let You know...... ::MonkeyWink:: 

Thanks...Thinking late February! ::MonkeyWink::

WhiskeyGirl…All I could find in the Dr Phil Documents.

Name/Title: Royal Dutch Air Force photograph scans
File No: 1007/2005
Location: Curacao N.A.
Date: 11 July 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/lnitiator: Commander F. Sijtsma
Description: notice regarding photograph scans

Name/Title: Complete report of weather and water stream direction
File No: none
Location: Netherlands Antilles
Date: 12 July 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Agent Mohamed Aqbil Shaiktoestali

Name/Title. Complete report of F 16, Photograph scans
File No: 1007/2005
Location: Curacao N.A
Date: 13 July 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Commander F. Sijtsrna
Description: Report of F 16, Photograph scans