Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

Hello anyone home?

Howdy!

Katiesmom, I don't think Klaasend was referring to you.

Apparently aruba has no laws about conflict of interest.

Geraldo up next on O reilly re: aruba

Good evening monkeyfaces....

Guys, I didn't make the O'reily thing. But it hasn't been on yet. Jacqueline, the song sounds like a groucho thing. Daddy taught it to us when we were kids at the pool and would play games with other kids swimming through a line of legs. It always made me laugh.

It's Geraldo who is going to talk about Aruba... right now they are talking about Danny DeVito....

PSYCHOPATHS

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/joranvds-1.jpg)
"Sporter""

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/scott_peterson.jpg)
Scooter"

A psychopath is defined as having no concern for the feelings of others and a complete disregard for any sense of social obligation. They seem egocentric and lack insight and any sense of responsibility or consequence. Their emotions are thought to be superficial and shallow, if they exist at all. They are considered callous, manipulative, and incapable of forming lasting relationships, let alone of any kind of love. It is thought that any emotions which the true psychopath exhibits are the fruits of watching and mimicking other people's emotions. They show poor impulse control and a low tolerance for frustration and aggression. They have no empathy, remorse, anxiety or guilt in relation to their behavior. In short, they truly are devoid of conscience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#What_is_a_psychopath.3F

Nope, she was referring to that bad Carnut. We have all forgiven him now, though.  :wink:

Oh boy BOR and Geraldo ought to go down there and solve the case.

O'Reily: The key to whole thing is that the search warrant to search the entire property was changed ON THE SPOT.

He's smarter than I thought.

Which house is O'Reilly referring to?

The main house or Joran's?

Un oh, looks like me.

I'm thinking the main house.

Carnut, have you ever killed animals?

wow... do y'all see the same "face map" like I do?

He has to mean the main house since that's the part that wasn't searched.

Call in to Dana with Questions for either:
1. Attorney Michael Winston
2. Jossy Mansur
3. Jacque Hollander

Call In Number 1-877-842-7884

Dana is on the air

What does a waterboard or a tsunami have to do with the Masons?  The initial FP post confused me but now I am really lost.

Im on the air now if any of you want to call in before i start the interviews.

Nothing.... my family are Masons and all I can say is PUH LEZE....

Some defense of this kind of behavior offered on Front Page by the Dutch but this has to be the dirtiest and lowest thing ever called a law or legal procedure.

This judge can sign a search warrant and appear to the whole world to be granting one as would be required in this situation.  Then he can sneak out to the actual site and cancel, modify it or restrict it as was done in this case.  This way the judge gets to appear to be doing the right thing when in fact, he isn't.

What a crock!!

 :evil:

And good for O'Reilley for having the sense to see this instead of defending this disgusting practice.

.

Hi Dana... I am very excited about the Jacquie Hollander interview.... that case is SOOOOOOOOOOOO important!

Can you say, red herring, misdirection, beating a dead horse?

I don't know a thing about the Masons except for the much earlier discussions.  I just didn't understand the concern related to that post.  I don't see a connection.

What's a "face map"?

I sure do mrs. red.... :twisted:

There IS a "Brotherhood" among the men in Aruba
We have the Lion's Club and the Mason's Club (men's groups)

Any affiliation with the "Lion's Den"?
What goes on there?

Joran passes this location on his way home from the hotels....

For the first several months of Nat's disappearnce, I was quite gullible. I never dreamt that there would actually be people posting that would purposely try to misdirect and distract from the truth (other than the suspects). When I look back, I think about how stupid it was to believe that these posters were sincere.

Some people  - not here... are trying to intimiate that it's connected to the Masons.... that's all I was saying...

DANA - We created a thread with questions for Jossy
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=602

Me, too....

SandraK
Reality
MIP6
Glenda
etc.............................

BT, the only place I ever heard anything about possible Mason involvement was from Kath...right before she left way back when...

Please elaborate.....

But Greta is still inclined to believe him.

Does not get much more blatant that changing a search warrant to steer people in the direction you want to.

Anyone want to come up with any reason why a search warrant should ever be changed?

That discussion got messy last time.

I'll need some help on this b/c that's actually all I remember. IIRC, she was intimating that there was some Masonic involvement, but everybody poo-pooed that idea immediately...That's all I know about that...

Then why repeat something that probably isn't true?

Joe Bad Mamajama's attorney sez: Hold your horses!!!!!

Cubbee, I am glad that someone else saw it.... I was shocked...

Florida, you need to go to the Dana archived shows and listen to the woman who does face mapping... but I was shocked to see that Scott Peterson and Joran... it's the same  :twisted:

Lost the poker hand??

When the judge who approved the search had been involved in the crime that was being investigated?

I don't know, my fluffy muffybee...I don't know why some people think there is a correlation...

Dunno, always amazed me, actually I can't believe that PVDS would have anything on his property that he would be worried about, especially after the time to cleanup any possible traces in the first place.

Such a flaqrant disregard for the rules, wonder if they did it just because they could do it.

Either that or everyone knows theres something there that needs to be covered for.

Kinda like PVDS driving himself to the police for his arrest rather than being taken in by the police.

How about when a judge wants to hide his dirty he is by pretending publicly to grant the search warrant then sneaking around and changing it on the spot?

After he signed it!  Why else pretend to grant it in the first place if not trying to give the appearance of something that is not true.

In this country, I believe KJ could have had those persons blocking the search arrested as well it should be done.


So we have established that the prosecution was acting in collusion with the suspect Sloot and now it would also appear the judges are as well.  No real surprise but this is too obvious!

.

There could be a possibility somehow, somewhere that a man that belonged to the Mason's could be involved.  Who knows?  There are a lot of them around.  But that doesn't mean it was THE Mason's.  There are good and bad in many organizations, including churches etc.  

So I hope we can give the Masonic thing a rest.  Go after the person that might be a Mason.  Whatever

I am getting a headache about this thing.  I think it's more stuff just to add to throwing off the scent of the real things.  Goodnight

Without due process? No.
Even with due process, I can only imagine a reason to EXPAND, not NARROW a search warrant.

Even if there was a confession to the crime being investigated by a party unrelated to the search, you STILL complete the search timely just in case the confessor was a "wannabe".

I'm having trouble keeping up!  Don't mind me though, I love all the intelligent conversation.  I just feell askeep at my desk.  See y'alll tomorrow!!!!

I am not going to say anything about it...because I agree with you. I am  glad to see you back in the US... and when life settles down a bit I hope I can ask you a zillion quesitions in the lounge about living in the Middle East...

Well, I don't think there is any Masonic involvement, but that seems to be what Parascope is trying to say on the front page. There are a whole bunch of cryptic posts, but the implication of Masonic involvement seems pretty obvious to me. I've been trying to figure out what the posts mean, and it's been kind of fun. It all has to do with Goetia and levels of spirits and all sorts of things. I got stuck on the post about the greyhounds, though. Can't figure that one out at all.

Any word on what O'Reilly and Geraldo said about the case?

Sorry, can you give me a link to Dana's show right now.....

About SP.....I've never heard of face mapping.

Call in with your questions for Jossy ... make yourself heard ...

There are so many questions to ask

I've been gone too long....................I can't seem to find Dana.  :(

Help?

It is really eerie , isn't it?

Link to the show

I think I remember how the Mason's came up....

I remember when some Dutch posters (and don't ask me who, cause I am still trying to figure out who Robots is...) mentioned that Paulus belinged to a secret mens group who were very secretive and powerful..

I do believe it was yours truly who said to him, Oh a club like the MASONS?

Never intending to create any kind of connection that the Masons had ANYTHING whatsoever to do with this, but that was the only group I could come up with that sounded sort of like what this dutch poster was talking about.

I got flamed for mentioning Masons, and apologized profusely stating I was just using them as an example of a club.

So I am pretty sure that the rumors just started flying, after a very innocent post by me, with no harm intended...

Just got it, Klaas.............THANK YOU!!!

When is it ok to call?

RIGHT NOW!

My fifteen year old is in here and he says that he feels sorry for us if we use to listen to that kind of music.... :roll:  :wink:

Yes, ma am!

I called so much while you were gone even Red recognizes my voice!!

Thanks, Klaas...but, the link doesn't work for me.....

There are "good Mason's" & "bad Masons"......

CBB,
Call any time Dana is not actually talking to the guests.

.

Done.  :wink:

Judge Witt signed the original and was also the one on the scene, sneaking around limiting it to Joran's digs, the place they had all cleaned up already.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/radio/

Click on the link on the RIGHT where it says LISTEN LIVE

LOLOLOL Cubbee  :lol:  :wink:

Was that you CBB?  You were GREAT!

Didn't know that, Anna. But the question remains: how could that be done without the due process that produced the original.

If you go to the front page, the link is there... just open another internet window.... the face mapping is hard to explain that is why I am saying listen to the lady from Dana's show..

I don't know about great, but yeah, me. Thx.

GOOD SONG!

No honey it wasn't you... it was someone else. :wink:   Doesn't bear talking about ... I am just hoping that we can see Jaquie Hollander get some justice and it is a tie in with this case, because as of right now, women have two years to file in a rape case, her case could change that ... it's a huge step forward for women... HUGE...

Hey CBB, you did sound great! Nice to see ya here  :lol:  :wink:

If nothing else, wouldn't you think that the fact that a judge who was friendly enough with the Sloots to be there IN SUPPORT of the family during this "difficult" time, having ANY authority to impact a search warrant involving their son, would be an inpropriety???

Cubbee... it's dang near identical...maybe we have a way to recongize predators ...

Certain eyes, forehead, smile?

DANA:   Was the search warrent changed on the spot?

JOSSY:  The search warrent was changed.  When they went to the house the first time Ben Vocking was there, employee of the department of prosecution.  Vocking had no business being there and used his influence to change the search warrent.

Close friends shouldn't have had authority in any capacity in this case!!!!

Florida  that's kind of it... also the left to right sides... look at scott peterson and joran's  faces... they have the same characteristics..

Jossy  !   You rock !  Jossy has a video !

JOSSY - I agree with O'Reilly, the government doesn't want to solve the case.

They have sufficient evidence to prosecute them on kidnapping and rape.  Why doesn't KJ do that?

I agree completely. It would be a conflict of interest, among other things...

Oh, you are right and not sure deVries covered WHO signed the original.  Monkeys answered that for me in here.

No due process at all  :(   And KJ is supposed ot have said at one point that Paulus wouldn't let them search, too.  

You sounded so good, just as I remembered you!   :D Did a great job.

.

Masons

I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same, whether he be right or wrong.

Comment by Allan K | December 1, 2006, 8:37 pm

This post from the front page is interesting.  It's at least in plain english.

JOSSY:  Court appearance yesterday.  Judge H. Smit again.  Decision should come down by next week.

Our judges and officers of the court recuse themselves when they are presented with responsibilities involving aquaintances.

Apparently aruba dosen't have that particular nicety.

Didn't DeVries also say that Joran said that Natalee had been in his parent's home?

it's true, except in that crazy case that Crazy Mom has posted about in the Crimes Against Children Thread... that case is horrific as well...

Somebody ask Jossy about the photo?

Exactly!  And they don't sneak around and change their orders either.

Witt pretended in public to grant the search then cancelled it when he thought the media wasn't looking.

My neighbor recused himself from a court case involving us because he was a neighbor even though we did not really know each other.  He avoided the APPEARANCE of wrong doing as well.

Apparently they have no conflict of interest regulations in Aruba at all.

Is it "When they are looking at you; but, one eye is askewed?

I submitted a couple of questions for Jossy....
Unfortunately, I have no access to Dana's program.

DANA:  Are you aware of de Vries doing a followup?

JOSSY:  Yes, I think he will be doing a followup.

DANA:  Is it true that Joran had more than a platonic relationship with Guido.

JOSSY:  Yes, there is a statement to that affect.  I think it's in Guido's statement.

JOSSY:  There is that possibility that Guido is involved.

JOSSY:  I have a video tape of Gerald Dompig that they do have sufficient material to bring these boys in on kidnapping and rape.  Which would be 8 years imprisonment.

Believe me...This is true....."THe BROTHERHOOD"

FLORIDA - what happens when you try to access the radio program?  Are you clicking on the link that says LISTEN LIVE?

KJ is leaving her position January 1, 2007.

Masons are not criminals. Keep it specific to the person, please .
The are usually fine upstanding altruistic citizens.

Masons are not criminals. Keep it specific to the person, please .
The are usually fine upstanding altruistic citizens.

Yes, and I save it as a document...& nothing.

So according to Jossy, it's in Guido's statement where Guido admits to a more than platonic relationship with Joran.

The rats are leaving the sinking ship


(http://i1.tinypic.com/ofspzq.jpg)

So how does that jive with KJ's slide show and saying she need 3 more months to bring the case to trial?

Guess she's gonna let someone else finish it up then.

Yup....

You don't want to save it as a document.  Just right mouse click on it and open in a new window.

Oh, you know nothing about Masons.

Don't right click it..double left click it .

She be getting out of Dodge fer sure.....

I THINK in Aruba, Mason's means something different.

I do believe you.  It is disgusting & any organization worth joining would have an oath to stand by & counsel a fellow member to do the right thing rather than accept a cowardly miserable excuse to the human race & their dastardly deeds of the Devil.  I hope they all rot in hell & they can't get there soon enough for me.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Oh Florida, I am the worst to explain.... maybe a smarter monkey can make it make more sense..but you are getting the general idea...

klaas, I would put money on that last sentence.... :wink:

Well, then it really isn't masons, is it?

Throughout history there have been groups or organizations that vow to watch each others backs, etc.

There is nothing to connect any such organization with this disappearance.  From time to time we have someone try to lead us down that path.   Last time it was the Lions Club, next time may be the PTA but the facts do not bear out any such connection.

.

My family members were Masons. Sure they have some odd ball ideas, but they are not a sinister organization. I've been in the big Masonic temple here. Met them. My daughter was married in their  temple.
Of course, when I asked some questions about the stuff in the showcases from the 1700's, they would not tell me. They have alot of odd rituals at their funerals aslo, but they are Christian (Protestant ) people.

And a whole compliment of new judges being processed in as well.
Van der Straaten left, Guido left, manager at the HI left, Gottenbros left,    and even Joran left.

.

So....More inference OFF of Joran and on GUIDO?

OMG... this poor woman... she is BRAVE!

Too complicated to explain in a forum post.  You need to go to Dana's website and listen to the discussion by the lady who does this.  You can listen to the podcast of any of his programs at any time.

.

Thanks for typing what Jossy said! I cannot access the live radio, I think my firewall or AOL maybe somehow blocking me?waaaaaaaaaa.. I will try to figure it out by the next show.

She just said ScaredMonkeys.com!   :shock:

Here is where this logic is taking you. If the person or persons responsible was a Catholic, would that mean that the Cathoilc Church and the Pope was behind it?
What if it was a member of the Church of England, would the head of the that Church be behind it ?
Silly stuff.

I guess they figure if anyone involved in the case leaves we will forget about it, and this will all just go away...NOT!!!

Y'all have to remember that you can listen to Dana later... download the podcast...


I am so behind this woman and her case... I don't think that rape should carry a two year statute of limitations... it's just not right.

Well!  That was a surprise.  I think we need a place for them to post should these rape victims come here as she suggested?  It might be hard to find that article on the Front Page as it will continue to move down.

Well we will be definately be following that case... I am praying that the SCt takes the case.... that is HUGE... I know I am repeating myself about this but it's just so very important...

True....I know nothing about MASON'S

But, I do know about MASON's in Aruba.
It's NOT what you think.......................................

The "Secrecy/The Brotherhood"..........................

Ok..can we agree that the Masons in aruba may not be the same group at all as here... and let this one go?  I am getting a headache from this ...


and jossy said so many things that I would have thought y'all would be all over that...

ANNA... you sounded great!

did y'all just hear me yell up to Red... "ANNA"? :shock:

I agree.....

Yes it is!

Yeah! Like the video. Why the heck aren't they in jail for the eight year sentence for rape/kidnapping while they work on the murder charge???

LOL!!!   :D No, you can tell, too.

The problem in aruba is the White Dutch, not whatever fraternal orders or clubs they may belong to.

Right?  that's just unbelievalbe... and Jossy just confirmed so much of what we have discussed...

Paulus won't let them???

I love to hear you talk... you and CBB... makes me homesick.. but I love hearing y'all...

Maybe we need to tell Peter deVries that Jossy has this tape???   :shock:

I was a little surprised that Jossy hadn't seen the photo, and that he didn't know who had signed the original warrant ( he should ask Anna,  :wink: ), but I think it is as alarming to Holland as it is to us that the warrant was changed on the premises by a friend of the family!

Capitalist is not a dirty word to some of us.   :wink:

It's what makes the world go round. . . . .

I wonder how many people in Aruba are pissed off at Jossy for "speaking out?!" Go Jossy Go !

Uh-Huh..............did you hear the Southern pronunciation of DeVries?
I said De Vries to rhyme with fries.  :oops:

I love, love it... when I call my family don't think my "roots" come out.... I hung up the phone today after checking with the hospital and my boss told me to drop the fake accent....  :shock:   I love SOuthern accents... and I love NY accents to... and Dana's accent... the "about"...

Going to go do some more shopping, may catch up with y'all later.
If not y'all have a good evening.....

Well, Rammstein is on the Front Page defending it as a lawful act under the powers granted to judges.  You'd think these judges were not even human beings but Saints or Angels to hear him talk about all their integrity and their high standards.

They are merely human beings subject to all the same motives and corruption as any other human beings.

I couldn't keep a straight face saying all that crap he does about them when we have this obvious example of short-circuiting the very premise on which law is based, due process.

Certainly, not all are equal under the law in Aruba for imagine someone like the security guards asking the judge to come out and change the warrant on the site!  He would probably end up in jail for even thinking it.

.

Nite Cubbee...

and you gave me a good reason to say if you are using Amazon, use the SM button at the bottom of the page or on the front page....

LOL! Oh Mrs. Red, that reminds me so much of Mom! She pronounced "about" sorta like "aboot". She was from Southern Virginia. My sister's name is Patty, and it came out almost like "Potty".  :lol:  The narrator on the "Walton's" had her accent exactly.

That is the only way I have ever heard it pronounced, too, CBB.  There is even that commercial on TV for years for some computer school DeVrys University or something like that.  Rhymes with fries.


.

too funny... the Waltons... I was fascinated by that show...

Monkeys... it has felt good to be in and talk to y'all.  There is so much information being stirred... we may just yet get a resolution.... or see justice....


DANA.. excellent show... what interesting guests!!!

Keep the Faith MONKEYS...

de Vries rhymes with duh freeze

No, how do you figure that?  It's just that it's entirely possible that Guido gave Joran a ride home and was involved.

Not around here, Leslie.  I hope I can remember to say it that way if I ever call in about that.

.
Reminds me of

That's FRANKENSTEEN!


 :D

Hope everyone enjoyed the show tonight, im pretty sure we had a couple of never heard before statements
Im uploading the show to the server tom will have it available soon.

Dana

.
So we have Hammer's perjury, conspiracy to commit purjury, obstruction of justice and Jossy's tape of kidnapping and sexual assault and yet there is no evidence???

Go figure. . . .Oh, that;s right, no "hard" evidence as in forensic but could that be because the judge sneaked and changed the search warrant on the site?  And that ALE and KJ refused to collect any from those last seen with Natalee?

But still, why haven't any of these charges at least been mentioned?  

Is there hope for a new and better replacement for KJ?  Dare I hope??



.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/ssaruba1.jpg)

Great Show, Dana.

We need to get the photoshopped photo information to Jossy!

And Jossy has a tape!  And it is Guido who tells of the relationship with Joran.

Yes, new information and also confirmation of several rumors we have heard.


.

lol and accurate

Special thanks to Jossy for dropping a couple of bombshells tonight.

1) KJ leaving ... getting out of Dodge. Are any of the original usual suspects still in Aruba?

2) So Jossy has a tape of Dompig making some comments about the case. Wonder what else the tape has on it? ;)   :roll:
Was wondering when this was going to be said, glad Jossy used SM to get it out.

Dana - great show!  I had to reboot my PC durring your last interview so I'll have to download the podcast.

Soon there won't be anybody connected to this investigation left on the island!  

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Maybe the Kalpoes and the rest will fly the coop!

1. joran did not walk home - feet would have been cut up plus he is a baby and would not do that


2. he didnt get a ride home with k2.. joran was implicating them or was attemting to implicate


where does that leave us...


GUIDO BABY !!!!!!

GUIDO gettin skkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

GUIDO, come sleep with momma but stop the LIES  8)

acually all three interviews tonight are important, cases that have signifigant consequences for sure.

GUIDO GUIDO GUIDO

alli want to do is BANG on your HEAD ALL DAY  8)  8)  8)  8)

Red,
Could you send Jossy all the information on the Photoshopped picture?  Maybe your article from the Front Page plus the second more sickening photo?

I don't have his email address except for the one at the paper and suspect he doesn't read there that much.

.

sneakers disappeared cause JORAN's shoe prints were in GUIDO'S car

shoe prints had forensics

but no reason for TOILET POLICE to check guido's car  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

Thanks Dana...I will have to download it and listen to it!

sneakers went with GUIDO somewhere

guido buried the sneakers and used his 4 wheeler, took em way out and buried em  8)

Very possible

Did we ever get to the bottom of why Antonio Carlo who was hired as Joran's lawyer on Thursday June 2, 2005 ( according to Deepak's statement ) had ANY contact with either one of the security guards.
The guards were not brought into custody until June 5 th.
Carlo was not a criminal attorney, so I doubt that he was in the pool of available lawyers for indigent  ( legal aid )  detainees in criminal cases.

Well, just give them 12-14 months and ALE will jump right on investigating that!

 :?

Jossy also confirmed that Guido admits to "more than freinds" with Joran, in a statement Guido gave in Court.....I would bet that Joran is getting upset, right about now!! :wink:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/JoranGudoDrag.jpg)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/JoranRun2.gif)

To offer them a bribe to take the fall?  Just guessing.. . . . .

yep

i think guido told ALE some stuff
and i dont think ALE has let on what they were told

bye bye joran

 8)  8)

i dont mind telling you

that PICTURE freaks me out  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

I can just hear Joran now...."Mommy, Daddy, they are saying I am bi-sexual, help me, help me"

I wonder also if JORAN.ANGRY! because Guido told about their special relationship.


.

OK Klaas I hope you are happy ... after looking at the Joran/Guido pic I am blind.  :shock:

thats what i think and also because ol joran knows CERTAIN people
can screw him into the ground and that has got to GRETA...err ahhh...
i mean GRATE

 on you nerves


 8)  :twisted:

that thing is still freaking me out


the RED EYES

he is DIABLO  :twisted:

ROFL !  :lol:  :lol:

Yeah, and it probably wasn't even Holloween! :lol:

How about this one?  His disguise so he could get out of New York??  :lol:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/geishajoran2-1.jpg)

I want to know if GUIDO picked up Joran that night.  Was Guido working at the Excelsior or the Marriott?  Did he get off work at 3am that morning?

LMAO! :lol:

Hey......What happpened to the "ideas" I submitted to DANA......???

OMG! ROLLING!!!

Stop it, Klaas! My stomach muscles can't take it, I HURT!

Perfectly put. This one I'll keep.

OK, help me remember this, k?

Guido and Joran were supposed to have a tennis date the day after Nat went missing............is that right?

simple for an investigator to check the time sheets at his employer

but like Anna said give TOILET L.E. 12-14 months and they might get to it :roll:

 
Natalee Holloway's Mother 'Guardedly Optimistic' About New Arrest

Monday , May 22, 2006

 

 
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands  — The mother of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway is "guardedly optimistic" about the Dutch arrest last week of a new suspect in connection with their daughter's disappearance.

"An arrest is better than no arrest, so hopefully it will bring about something," said Beth Holloway Twitty, mentioning how there have been many supects and arrests but few answers.

Guido Wever, an Aruba national, is expected to face charges Tuesday in a Dutch courtroom connection with the disappearance of the high school senior. Wever's lawyer, Gerard Spong was expected to file a suit Monday to prevent his extradition to the Caribbean island on charges of "assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen.


WHY?  What evidence do they/did they have?

well, they did have a DATE  8)
but we are not sure if Tennis was on the agenda  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

If memory serves me, no one saw them playing, and I remember thinking they were probably disposing of Natalee.

I THINK this came up when Guido was questioned.

My instinct is that this is unlikely, but I am not a supreme being, so that makes me likely to be wrong.  It does make one wonder what he was thinking or acting on at the time he supposedly contacted one of the SGs.

sneakers

Yep and they did meet up that night at another casino.  Read Andre Dos Santo's statement.

YEP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guido Wever, an Aruba national, is expected to face charges Tuesday in a Dutch courtroom connection with the disappearance of the high school senior. Wever's lawyer, Gerard Spong was expected to file a suit Monday to prevent his extradition to the Caribbean island on charges of "assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen.

Thx..........I'll do that. Guido's lawyer is a heavy hitter, and I wish that weren't the case. Sometimes a good lawyer is better than a good alibi.

so for all the CRACK SMOKERS that cant seem to put the CRACK PIPE down for more than 3 minutes

even ALE  thinks it was A MURDER and not a RUNAWAY


GESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH

that horse was beaten to death so many times, i cant believe ANYONE  actually believes she might have run away

I don't know, but that heavy battery charge has always bothered me. They must KNOW something that we have not heard yet.

And, if I am not mistaken, the only time heavy battery was mentioned in any of the charges.  It stayed with all of us, I think, Elaine.  WTH did it come from...you're right.

So here are a couple things that we learned or that were confirmed by Jossy on Dana Pretzer.

1.  Jossy has a tape of DOMPIG where Dompig says they have enough evidence to charge JK2 with kidnapping and rape which would put them in jail for 8 years.

2.  KJ is leaving January 1, 2007

3.  There is a statement made by Guido that he and Joran had more than a patonic relationship at one time.

Dutch police detain man in Holloway case
Deseret News (Salt Lake City),  May 22, 2006  by Toby Sterling Associated Press
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands -- Dutch police have detained a man on suspicion of participating in the kidnapping and killing of Natalee Holloway last year in Aruba, the suspect's lawyer said Sunday.

Gerard Sponge said his client, whose name was not disclosed, was suspected of "assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the Alabama high school senior.

The charge is the most severe "in our criminal code," Sponge said on the Netherlands national television broadcaster, NOS.

Holloway was 18 when she went missing in May 2005 during a graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba with classmates. She was last seen leaving a bar with three young men on May 30.

Dutch marines, the Aruban Coast Guard, the FBI and hundreds of volunteers have all searched the island and coastal areas of Aruba for Holloway, to no avail.

The suspect was arrested Wednesday and is being questioned in the city of Utrecht, Sponge said. The suspect has not been formally charged. The questioning was to continue Monday, he said.

Advertisement

Sponge said he planned to file a suit Monday to prevent his client from being extradited to Aruba.

Karin Janise, a prosecutor in Aruba's public prosecutor's office, declined to comment on the arrest.

Authorities have previously arrested eight people in connection with Holloway's disappearance and then released them for lack of evidence.

Sponge said the suspect is a friend of Joran van der Sloot -- the last person known to have seen Holloway alive. Van der Sloot says he left Holloway alone on a beach after the pair kissed.

The suspect was questioned three times in Aruba shortly after Holloway's disappearance and twice later by Dutch authorities, Sponge said.

Utrecht police spokeswoman Danielle Freedman said Dutch officials will not comment on the investigation, which is being carried out under the authority of Aruban prosecutors.

Holloway's parents are attempting to sue van der Sloot, 18, in a New York court. Their suit alleges he imprisoned and sexually assaulted Holloway.

Copyright C 2006 Deseret News Publishing Co.

guido spilled the beans


he gave JORANKILL a ride home



BET the FARM

ITS a LOCK

 8)

'evening everyone.

Was the meeting between Posner and Guido in his office a rumor? Does anyone know where that came from?

thanks

Yep, and JVDS cell phone call was from a tower in the southend that day a place where there are alot of brambles and cactus to get faces and hands scratched and shoes lost.

getting clearer all the time  8)

I don't know, but that heavy battery charge has always bothered me. They must KNOW something that we have not heard yet.[/quote]

It has me, too, and Guido is the only one whose charges mention that.  I wonder why that is?

I am hoping and praying that it means that the prosecution really has more evidence than we have heard about. Hopefully, the reason the judge said he needed more time yesterday, was because a case is going to be filed against these suspects.....I know, I know, but hey we can only hope and pray!!

KJ is the lynchpin in the case, she holds the key to what goes down.  She's the main player in the coverup.  Hope she enjoys her retirement and sleeps well at night knowing there's a mother out there that wants to know what happened to her daughter.
KJ is one stone cold hearted b itch. Wonder if she has any children?

It bothered me too Elaine.  Just like the Premeditated Murder charge against Paulus.

It has me, too, and Guido is the only one whose charges mention that.  I wonder why that is?[/quote]

cause he was with JORAN when the body was moved and buried

let  me tell you another GREAT WAY that JORAN the LIE FACTORY
tells TREMENDOUS LIES

wanna hear it  ?

It has me, too, and Guido is the only one whose charges mention that.  I wonder why that is?[/quote]Yes, and it does make him look rather involved!

Still don't think the Guido 'relationship' statement had anything to do with a gay fling.

I bet Anita is pretty upset too. :lol:

Another thing that has always bothered me is Joran saying he put his gym bag behind the bar at the racquetclub after showering and changing clothes and putting on SLIPPERS.

Then Paulus says he took the bag to Joran later than Joran claims to have put the bag behind the bar at the club.  Why would Joran change into SLIPPERS for we have seen him enter the casino in sneakers before.

Were the sneakers in the bag behind the bar or did Paulus bring them to the club for disposal?  Is that when Guido got them?

There is something very off on the timeline as well as Joran's activities that evening with these Slippers when he was planning a rather long walk to the casino.

.

cause he was with JORAN when the body was moved and buried

let  me tell you another GREAT WAY that JORAN the LIE FACTORY
tells TREMENDOUS LIES

wanna hear it  ?[/quote]sure, go ahead...

What do you think other than platonic means?

my quotes arent posting right, I apologize to anyone who's quotes got screwed up in my posts :lol:

Well, those who speak the language do.  Still think its a translation error when Guido speaks perfect Dutch?  And I doubt Guido thinks of it as a fling of any sort.

Does anyone remember where we heard that there was a meeting in Posner's office with Guido?

that premeditated stuff is pretty creepy too, you are right!

Ah, other than platonic to me means romantic.

I think the term 'relationship' used in the statements actually meant something like 'best buddies' 'friend forever' type thing.

I want that D**N videotape of Joran coming into the casino. I want a close-up of his shoes. He's been tap dancing about his shoes from day one, and anything that scares him like that is worth knowing about.

Here's my biggest fear of all: After all this time, I just can't imagine there is ANYTHING left forensically(sp?). And all involved would know that if it's all gone they just have to shut up.

.
I wonder exactly what Heavy Battery means in Dutch law.  I could ask Rammstein but think he would claim it means something like a massage, all balm like and pleasant.   :evil:

So what is heavy battery as opposed to just battery?

.

joran says "i dont know where she is BURIED"
implying that he has NO idea and how dare anyone accuse him of that crime.


BUT, the truth is he DID bury her but he may not be actually able to tell
anyone where she is EXACTLY..because of the terrain and the time of night  etc etc etc



he tells one lie but there is always shades of the truth in there somewhere
 


thats the sneaky way he is...

"i dont know where she is BURIED"

implies SHE was BURIED, said in a FIT of rage  

it does not imply she was in the water, or anywhere else

she is buried  on the island, and guido might know a bit more than he told joran

well, if they see broken bones, certainly Natalee wasnt doing the breaking

i hate them all

BRUTALITY

I did not know that Jossy had a tape, but Dompig has said this before.
The problem is that Joran told so many stories at different times that
how can they pick ONE out and make it stick ? Because he denied it later. And they have nothing but witness who were later suspects who constantly changed their stories. Without any sort of outside evidence,
with the only " evidence " coming from the prime suspect who recants,  
how can they lay the charges ?
..
The judge, don't know which one ( s ) was well aware of these stories and still let them out.

Heavy Battery to me is beating someone and leaving them close to death.

picking up daughter


back in a bit

I think they are called Sociopaths today.Something about not understandind or caring about the rules and mores of human society.I have killed animals before,when I hunted,didn't enjoy it.Found wimmen were more fun to try to understand.I know that song.I heard in Kentucky.I do not really understand wimmen,I just feed DARK Chocolate,Ice Cream,and listen to them.Tonight Little sprout wants to come under my arm...She is recovering from surgery and the Dr said she could.Strange search warrents in aruba.remember,to joran ,we are only prey.

The question to Jossy was this:

Is it true that there is a statement where it's said that Joran and Guido had something other than a platonic relationship?.

Jossy's answer was this:

Yes, it's true there is a statement, but just one statement.  I believe it's Guido's witness statement.

Well according to Aruba people commit suicide and they also bury themselves.  Heck why not throw broken bones in there also. :roll:

That 'slippers' comment always seemed weird to me too. Maybe slippers has a different meaning to him ? But it's really odd; Also, there is more than meets the eye regarding the racquet club in this crime. It seems to be a main communication hub with this group.

Same with the K2' on the in car taping

'If they find the girl'

They knew that JVDS and family handled the body disposal whatever it might have been but don't know where the body is.

Well, I wonder.  Does it involve the use of a weapon of some sort or would that be bludgeoning?

I have to wonder why this charge was never brought against say the Kalpoes or any of the other witnesses.  Is Guido just a witness or is he a suspect?  Will he be included in this blanket release before the judge now?

More questions from this new information than answers.

.

I know and again I think there is confusion in the understanding of Guido's statement.

Slippers might mean what I call 'boat shoes' or maybe even 'thongs'.

WHY?  Jossy understands Dutch and English very well.  I don't understand why you don't believe this?

The raquet club was supposed to be the location of the Guido-Joran tennis match that didn't happen, right?

If Guido made the "confession" that he and Joran were lovers, then I smell a "Lawyer Tactic".

If they were eight years old, maybe, but this is different and Guido has announced to the world that he prefers guys to girls.

Although I thought 'slippers' was odd, I, too, thought the same, or those athletic slides everyone wears.

I don't either and believe Guido might be in a better position to know the nature of the relationship.  It is quite clear that at least Guido thinks they have something going on other than best buddies.


.

Again Jossy didn't make the 'other than platonic' statement, that was in the question.

And Jossy only said 'there is a statement', that dosen't mean he agrees with the statement or that he knows for sure there isn't a misunderstanding of the statement.

Thongs, I bet.

I think slippers means loafers or docksiders or some sort of hard soled non tying leather shoe.  What I mean is these would be harder to walk to the casino in than the sneakers and usually have sort of slick soles, etc. just seems that since Joran was just in the casino the day before in sneakers this change would not be necessary and is even out of character for him.

.

Do we have any eveidence that Guido ever had a girlfriend? Pictures, etc?


I know I'm stepping out on thin ice here, so please don't flame me. Trust me, I'm NOT prejudiced and am not a homophobic. Having said that, sometimes stereotypes begin because there is some commonality that creates a picture ( I know, it won't apply to everybody). BUT, I'm compelled to say that it's easier for me to believe that Guido is gay than to believe that Joran is bi-sexual.

OK, I'm ducking the tomatoes!

I've wondered about the 'tactic' thing myself.

Again it may just be my predjudices, but I'm pretty darn sure JVDS is from what all I have seen is very much a hetero to the point of mysoginist.

Pretty sure half the mountains made about the case are because of molehills of misunderstanding/misinterpretations of foreign language transcriptions.

Especially in aruba where there are at least 3 languages spoken all the time.

The first word out of Jossy's mouth is YES indicating that yes, such a statement of the non-platonic relationship exists.

Again, I haven't seen anyware that has been any protestions of 'lovers' between Guido and JVDS, just the word 'relationship' showed up and we don't really know for sure what that means to them.

Just like the word 'slippers' what did JVDS mean by that statement?

Sorry, just hate to see you all heading off into a dead end.

Sorry, but to me Joran looks and acts very much bi-sexual.  I could care less what his sexual preference is.  What I do care about is if there's reason to believe that Guido participated in the murder or assisted in covering up a crime.

Hiya Monkeys

I for one believe Jossy meant exactly what we know non platonic means.
Car...after all we have learned about the goon child why wouldn't yoou think his door could swing both ways?

As Jossy said a long time ago: it's the judiciary at fault. I read some of what Rammerstein posted today in his frantic defense of the judges, and the poor guy doesn't even realize that he is defending tyrants and tyrannical behaviour. The judges totally rule there...they are mini-kings. No wonder Paulus wanted to become one. They have total power. Corruption reigns supreme

Yep, I totally agree that there is a strong possiblity that Guido probably assisted in the covering up of the crime.

Heh, heh, yeah, but in their world that is the one and only right way to do things.

Heck they sure wouldn't want to trust their fate to 12 ordinary hick citizens.

At least here we can usually chose a judge or jury trial.

Gays are often highly misogynistic and so I would think a bisexual could well be.  Guido has admitted to being gay for some time and believe it is stated on his modeling site or was until he took it down.  This is not something that has just suddenly come up about Guido.

No, I don't buy that heterosexuals are more likely to be misogynists at all.



And I am not at all sure what mountains you are claiming have been made out of molehills because of any translation errors .  Could you please cite a few of these because I can't think of even one that could be attributed to any language problems.

.

.

Ok, I tried, I'll agree to disagree on this one.

It's a misconception that because a "player" in this case is innocent because his sexual orientation is for same sex partners. Obviously, the motive for drugging and kidnapping a girl could have been for monetary gain vs sexual satisfaction. But, more to the point, a very dear gay friend and I ( who happens to be a Psychiatric Nurse Specialist with perscriptive authority) talked at length about this when it came up and his perspective was interesting. He said that it is very common for a young gay male to participate in something with sexual content with straight guys, particularly if he wasn't "out". He also said that often the real motive for extending the effort was attraction to one of the friends.
Of course, he also pointed out that rape isn't about sex anyway. It's about dominance and power and violence.

You know, Anna, I never even believed him. Just another lie, but I wondered why? Or was he just amusing himself, telling this slipper lie?

I think Guido participated in more than just the cover-up, HE is the one who was arrested on charges of HEAVY BATTERY,,,along with the other charges

Nothing at all like the word slippers.  There we have one word.  With the non-platonic relationship (no one said declarations of love had been made, you added that bit) we have an entire statement for backing it up.  We have a description of the relationship by one of the participants.  We have no description of slippers, only the word itself.

So please don't try that cheap trick on me, Carnut!

Not all relationships result in declarations of love, either.  Some are purely seuxal in nature, others might revolve around a certain interest, etc.  No need to exaggerate what was said but it does seem foolish to deny it was even said at all or that you know more about their relataionship than Guido does.  



.

Of course, this is just my own opinion

I keep asking if anyone knows if the story about Guido having a meeting in Posner's office for a reason.

What if Guido's alibi is that he was working and therefore does not fit the known timeline? What is the alibi was provided by Posner, his employer, and Guido was not actually at work?

No matter what country, whose laws, it is the rule of law.
What I am trying to get at is there is no " evidence " because they didn't want to find any.
Short of KJ or her replacement laying charges against all three and having one or two K's do a plea bargain which they do not have, but they do have " Crown Witnesses " what after all these months could she possibly do ? Run a weak case ? And have them declared Not Guilty. Once they are declared Not Guilty, they cannot be charged again. The three are in a the postion of power right now because as long as they don't talk, nothing is going to happen.

Pathological liars actually start to beleive their own lies, but it is obvious that Joran likes to amuse himself.

Well...if Guido gave a statement to the police regarding the intimate nature of his friendship with Joran, I daresay in the interest of discretion, he would not be saying "Oh, yes, Joran and I have the major hots for each other, etc. etc. etc." On a formal statement such as that, I think it would be more subtle and it would not be spelled out it detail. "Other than platonic", has a powerful message, and it's not exchanging each other's skate keys.

I always wondered if he had to wear the slippers and couldn't play tennis because he didn't have his sneakers to wear.  Something was wrong with them or he left them somewhere he shouldn't have and had not yet collected them back.

/

I agree

Carnut:
One of many definitions of "platonic" is "free from sensual desire"...Guido was saying that his relationship with Joran was just the opposite.

Dunno, do we have the actual statement available? Maybe I missed something.

Reading about gang rape long ago, think was a Johns Hopkins study said that gang rape is as close to having sex with another male as a male can get without actually doing the deed and that there are heavy components of homosexuality in it.

I think your friend makes a great deal of sense in that it is also the ultimate way to try to prove you are not gay, etc. as in protesting too much.  I also think it would offer something to those too inhibited to engage in normal relationships with women, say those who cannot maintain any relationship for very long or are found under the dining room table at age 17 with a 12 year old girl, people like that.

.

Hey! It wasn't the dinning room table.

How old is Guido?

Yes, I agree also, Klass. Actually, he looks non-sexual but trying to pretend that he's heterosexual, re: all those staged pictures with girls we have been swamped with of late. As Blah said earlier in the day, he just gets way too close to all those guys in all those guy pictures for me. He either sees himself as Mr. Dominant World Hospitality or he's just a little too chummy with the fellas because of other reasons.

I think he will soon be 19 years old, he is very close to Joran's age

Unless KJ has totally flipped her wig, which is also a distinct possibility, there should be some reason why she applied this heavy battery to only Guido and not even to Joran.

Also remember that little curly headed kid who was always attached to Joran in the NL and even went to NY with Joran for the interview?  The one attached like velcro?  That relationship always looked very strange as well.

.

I know it, but trying to figure it out is maddening.

Babelfish translated 'slipper' as 'pantoffel' from English to Dutch.  A search of a definition of pantoffel came up with mule, which started out with the animal and ironically a drug runner, but also included a shoe with no heal or covering for the heal.  

Since we know the PVs were translated from Papiamento to Dutch and then back to English, I think we know these shoes were slides of some sort...whether flip-flops or slip ons and definitely not sneakers.

All I remember is that we learned somehow that Posner called him into his office, was mad, and Guido looked scared and nervous. That's all I can recall.. :oops: sorry...my mind is a sieve now.

Five or six other employees in the casino said Guido had scratches on his face the day after Natalee disappeared and he was so scared and upset at the meeting that he wet his pants.

Guess he thought Posner was going to whack him right there in his office or something.

 :roll:

Yes, I wondered that as well about the heavy battery charge; I think Joran has lots of boyfriends.

Good work !..............Monkeys, keep up the good fight!~Good night all!

 :lol: I think if I had been Posner, I'd be mad too.  :lol:

Good Night Elaine!
I gotta go too...I am Aruba-ed out for tonight. This is the most stealthily treacherous and deceitful pack of criminals I have ever tried to figure out  but the good guys will win in the end. The truth will emerge faster than we can say: "Jack Robinson!" Steady on all ~

Anna, that is exactly what I have always thought, because the "bag" seemed significant that day and the call that Carnut referred to came from a part of the island where the shoes could have been buried, or even Natalee.

Maybe Posner called him into his office to ask him outright if he was involved. Guido confesses, and Posner takes care of the "alibi". The alibi being that Guido was at work.

I REMEMBER A QUOTE FROM LORENZO THAT SOMEONE TOLD US, AND NOW IT IS MAKING SENSE.  

LORENZO SAID HE DID NOT HAVE ANY ASSOCIATION WITH THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY.  WE THOUGHT HE MEANT K2 BUT I BET HE MEANT JORAN AND GUIDO, AS IN FUDGE.

I agree Anna.  That kid is stuck to Joran like glue.  I wonder if he is one of Joran's roommates.

So at the time of the disappearance both were 17... We have heard that while the NL openly acknowledges gay relationships, Aruba does not.  

So we have two immature individuals, who may have been involved in a non-platonic relationship.  At this age, it could have been nothing more than sexual experimentation.  But, this is a relationship that might or might not be accepted by their parents and peers on Aruba, and most likely was kept somewhat quiet.

We saw Joran's websites, filled with out of control drinking, sexual promiscuity and pornography.  We can see his attitude toward women in general (even patting his mother's head).  His photos include Axeman, the belt photos, etc.  These kids clearly tried it all.  Were these activities with girls an effort to prove he was heterosexual, or, were they opportunities to degrade and debase.

Add to that the anger management issues, his arrogance and sense of self-importance.   It is not hard to imagine how an individual with this personality make up and sexual confusion could result in disaster.  We know very little about Guido's personality or behaviors.  But we have seen much of Joran's throught the past year.

I think this is why the statement from Guido is important in this case.  It puts a new light on some of the information we have had previously about the personalities involved, especially Joran.

You're scary, Anna! My friend has absolutely no doubt about his orientation: gay. Never had sex with a woman in his life, and been an active little critter throughout his life. He's middle aged. Yet, one night we were having a few that turned into a few too many, and out of the blue he told me that he had fantasized about a sexual encounter with me, and the fantasy included another guy. NOTHING happened and for the record, I would never be interested in any gendered "competition" for attention, thank you, but I was shocked he could go there. NOT because of the "threesome" factor, but because one of the three was female. It began a really long conversation (we're really close) and the bottom line is that it was fear, and inhibition that kept him from even being able to fantasize without the comfort of what was known and comfortable to him.

OT, but I have to conclude by saying that it was so weird to me to experience this normally "incredibly sensitive and insightful to others" guy whom I love like family, have no thought at all to how impossibly inhibiting for me it would be to be intimate with one gay guy, much less 2! I'm a lot of things, but I AM NOT a man!

Wasn't it Peeps who said that?  I don't think we have ever had any contact with Lorenzo.

Joran may be bisexual or even fully gay. He most certainly is sexually opportunistic.

Is Rammstein one of Paulus' friends?  I have always thought so.

It was Peeps and I'm pretty sure he was referring to the K2's.

Course not sure what the term 'chocolate' really means in aruban colloquialisms.

I believe this is what he meant also Tyler.

Exactly. These are not just your average 17 yo kids. They are into the hardcore stuff, and I'm not talking about porn. They make films of having sex with underage, unconscious girls. They do whatever to get a thrill.

I think that's the deal, Justins.  While Guido may be openly gay, I think Joran is so jaded from exposure to all the porn from such an early age, etc. he just has to keep upping the ante to get the same thrill.  

Done that twenty times before so have to change the scenario and intensify some way.  More and more required all the time.  Sad and sorry situation.

I got flamed for bringing this up when the church sisters were here, but I do have many gay friends.  Many gay men in rose societies, house staging as relates to decorating that I once did, and I have been told by more than one that sometimes gay men will "gang rape" a woman, one after the other and it gives them a sense of them all having sex together with each other.  Really strange and I guess I did not want to get too involved in it, even though I asked the question, and it is as if they are all "eating from the same plate" sotaspeak.

Right. This is almost a quote of what I have been saying all day.

I was thinking it was one of the Aruban people who knew Lorenzo and told us he said that.  It probably was PEEPS.

I have always thought that Paulus giving Joran the porn for his lap top when he went away to school was very telling.  Supposedly said it would help Joran stay awake during class.

Have seen this as a sort of admission by Paulus of the problem.  Regular classes are too boring for Joran without his porn fix?  And Paulus can relate to that as well??  Talk about dysfunctional family.

Got this from a website that was not exactly heterosexual.

Another main premise of homosociality that gang rape enacts is that men bond homosocially over/through the bodies of women.

That is, the woman becomes the conduit for male connection–the male bond is “triangulated,” deflected through the body of the woman.** Not that this is homosexual (that would be insulting to gay men), but the very opposite–the presence of a woman serves to nullify the threat of homosexuality implicit within the homosocial bond.

Look at it this way–is there any place besides a woman’s body that straight guys are willing to dip their wicks immediately after another guy put his there?

Tyler, Anna................I think you're right on.

forgive me.....


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left? He was working, maybe?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:57 pm
I mentioned yesterday that there is a gap in the timeline. Where’s Jake?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:03 pm
The gap is in the timeline. Phone records. Log-on times on PC’s.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

 :?:

He had to be let go?

This is why I am asking if the story about Posner calling Guido into his office is true.

probably "released"

I don't know, but I'll check right now

That was what I was about to ask.  I had to finish decorating Christmas tree and could not listen and I want to listen to podcast.

Nope don't see it yet.  My guess is either Red or Tom have to put it up on the website.  Most likely Tom, so it will be in the morning.

That's a good follow-up question for Jossy.

I'm getting droopy-eyed and am going to turn in. Have a great night and sleep well!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/sweetd.gif)

Released, went back to Holland.  Momma Kalpoe was released.  Steve Croes was released.  A lot of people being released.

I think the connection between Deepak and Steve Croes goes back to Antonio Carlo (or whatever his name is) going to talk to the SG.  Antonio Carlo wants to know what they know.  Somehow K2 gets wind of this and they think they are about to take the fall.  Perhaps, for some reason, SC feels the K2 (and maybe even the Sporter) need some help so he agrees to back them  up for the right amount of money.  I think Antonio Carlo was setting up the SGs when he talked with them.

Ok thank you, Just thought I was going blind must be just tired as hell

Goodnight, CBB.  It has been great having you back to play with the Monkeys.

YES

1.  KJ is leaving her position January 1, 2007

2.  Jossy has a tape of Dompig saying they have enough evidence to arrest and convict JK2 of rape and kidnapping which would put them in jail for 8 years.

3.  There is a witness statement where it's stated that Joran and Guido had more than a platonic relationship.  Jossy believes it was in Guido's earlier witness statements.

4.  Jossy believes it may have been Ben Vocking that stopped them from searching the entire Sloot residence.

We've read it so many times, but everything is a reference to the casinos; house, dirty hand, etc. Read this and plug in Posner

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden
Babylon scared of DirtyHand
Arawaks scared of DirtyHand If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy
If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found
Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price
the gods know that the blame lies on babylon
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders
Babylon knows

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power there will be 46 sacrifices

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave
He can break the alibi

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know
the maze of the rave
and the fly that entered the trap
DirtyHand is the key
He walks in many circles

well I guess that response didnt come out to well  :?

Tom looks after that, Im sure he will have it on the page in the morning.
www.scaredmonkeys.com/radio

 :lol:  :lol:

Maybe, because Carlo implicating Joran and then working in the same office as Paulus doesn't make sense. Was Carlo instead steering KJ away from Guido?

Thanks Dana I am anxious to listen to the show :)

Thank you, Dana, for everything.  I will listen while working.  Yuk.  Work, so much of it so close to Christmas.

Are the casinos in Aruba owned by the Dutch?

Dont feel bad I have so much I will be lucky to live through it :cry:

I am not sure.  I think he talked to the guards to see what they knew.  Carlo may have gotten information from the guards that led him to believe Joran is guilty (shruggins shoulders here).

Not sure about that.  Excelsior is owned by Posner.

Memphis, my husband hypothesizes that Natalee was taken to the Holiday Inn, that they "did" take her back to the HI, and that she was "drugged and stumbling" when they took her.  She was taken through a secret "maze," by Guido and Joran who would know where that secret maze is and out of the peering eyes of any MB students or others.  He believes whatever happened to her, happened at the HI.  Bear in mind that one of the Arubans who posted quite heavily early on went to the HI and said there was a scant number of cameras and she found, herself, that only 1-2 was working.  So it is possible that a camera was not in the location of or was not working where they took her, or a security person was paid to deactivate the cameras.  He also believes that the HI part is right, but when Posner got wind of it, he sent Paulus or someone in to tell the jail birds they best change their stories and keep their "crap" away from the HI and he, thus, fired Guido for getting involved, but helped him cover his tracks. He also believes the mattress that was bloody was from the HI and it was Natalee's blood and the reason rooms at the HI were re-carpeted.

We heard Beth alude to the fact that her conversations on the phones were bugged and that she had Posner call her inquiring as to when she was going to leave Aruba, etc.

Well Tyler, I think that fits.

Why is Posner steering everything away from the HI? Is it because he is up to his old tricks?

Wasn't he given some kind of pardon and if he violates the terms of it, he goes back in the clink.

Aruba is mob controlled and Holland knows it. Somehow what happened would expose it all. Holland knows and is part of the coverup. I hope that doesn't include DeVries.

I don't think everybody is bad in Holland.  That's like saying everyone from Alabama is toothless.

I have no idea.

Why would Aruba agree to cover for him? What's in it for them?

Are you trying to tell me that DeVries is a good guy?
I would be relieved. I don't think everyone is bad, but the coverup seems to go all the way to Holland.

Goodnight. I'm heading to bed.

I didn't go to bed.

The following from Getagrip's blog...


Monday, October 17, 2005
Government has its hand over Michael Posner’s head? Notorious Chicago figure active in Aruba casino
DIARIO Aruba
10/17/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba.

His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution.

He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family.

DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba?

During the [election] campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the [current] government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is [already] apparent.

The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba.

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba.

[translated by Getagrip]

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/11/aruban-casino-owner-with-criminal-past.html

also from Getagrips' blog....

Monday, November 21, 2005
Aruban casino owner with criminal past goes to America
Joe Mammana is not permitted to enter Aruba due to his past but how did we end up with Mike Posner?
DIARIO Aruba
11/21/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN) The case of Natalee is taking other unexpected twists and very negative ones that are going to tarnish Aruba’s image as a safe destination for tourists and investors.

Joe Mammana has a very impressive criminal past in the U.S. but for one reason or another he has found publicity with different cases which have set his image straight and in the case of Natalee, he is trying to find national attention in the US by using sensationalism via the American media.

The government of Aruba recently declared that they will not permit Joe Mammana to enter Aruba.

Related to his past and criminal record, the government took the decision via the Minister of Justice that they cannot let such a person enter Aruba and about this there was information circulating that this Joe person sent a threatening letter to those who were detained in Aruba related to the case of Natalee.

The government’s actions in this case were correct because they cannot let this type of person come to Aruba and believe that they can come do what they see fit on our island, and to boot, Mammana is one of those who is trying, body and soul, to organize an unjust and unjustifiable boycott against Aruba.

What is strange is that the government refuses to let this ex-criminal enter Aruba, but on the other hand, permits another ex-criminal, Mike Posner who is going soon to the U.S. for cases of law violations, to be able to have a business in Aruba, and enter and leave Aruba whenever he wants.

To make matters worse, the person in question, Mike Posner, has been able to obtain a permit to operate a casino, where anyone who wants to have a casino in Aruba and the majority of other countries in the world have to have a clean criminal record.

Recently, this information has started to circulate in the U.S. as well, and seeing that it hasn’t been many days since via the American media false information was given that Aruba is a sort of den for criminals and even terrorists, the matter of the Aruba casino owner with a criminal past in the US, is going to help those who want to implement a total boycott against Aruba.

Wasn’t it in Mike Posner’s casino that the principal suspect in Natalee’s case, Joran van der Sloot, was sitting gambling, despite the fact that he was underage and that never should he have been permitted to enter the casino?

Some weeks back, other media in Aruba came out in vanguard of the ex-criminal Mike Posner and wrote and article that praised Mike Posner for his supposed achievements in Aruba and what interest they had with him, nobody knows.

Now that the government refuses an American ex-criminal entry to Aruba, the government has to justify the reason why until today they continue to permit a person with such a police record such as Mike Posner, can come to set up a business in Aruba, continue to operate his business in Aruba and come and go whenever he wants.

What sort of handling of Justice is there in Aruba and what impact will this case have in the US when the American media start to question the government of Aruba about this matter?

This matter is pending because there are more questionable things here and also the role that certain politicians in Aruba play and continue to play in this matter.

[translated by Getagrip]

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/11/aruban-casino-owner-with-criminal-past.html

Well I went to bed but had to get up as I heard one of the little bitty dogs go outside, forgot to block their doggie door and it is 25 degrees!

That website of GetaGrips remains a wealth of information.  So many things I have forgotten, not one of her articles is a waste of time to read.  Good place to just hang out and read month by month and there are not that many of them.

Thursday if was in the mid seventies here and tonight twenty-five degrees.  Quite a change to adapt to.  Going to go bad to bed under the electric blanket, brrrrr!


.

goodnight

Re: what's in it for them: money

Re: Shango   It's interesting where he/she uses capitals and small letters with the use of same words... At times there seems to be an implication of one person..thus capitals, then small letters perhaps to tell of others who are not  "the one" or not part of the "all powerful group" or "country" or heritage. I think there is still more to be learned from rereading this Code every time new facts or rumors appear.

DirtyHand and dirtyhand... then the Great House, IMO,  means the Hague which has the long reputation of the good law of the Hague and all it means.. as in the code "Babylonians want to maintain the integrity of the Great House" yet in the next line says "Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house"... notice the use of small letters here... this is a different house? IMO it means the "Gods of the cowboys" (notice also no use of a capital on Cowboys this time)

IMO I think this means "Gods=oversearers either wiretapes with DEA, ALE or casino police if it refers to a "a game in the great house"=casino or hotel or it could mean "the great house" as a larger private home where "games" were being played and then it goes on to say "so DirtyHand was discovered".

"But the sacrifice will be offered before the dirty hand sings", perhaps Joran was offered up to spend time in jail so that the father didn't have to play any more of his cards (cards that he'd played?? or someone else to not get his home search?) and "sing". 'He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous".

The way this is coming down...  all this PR isn't great for the financial future of the family in the long run. Notice how Shango doesn't capitalize "Babylon" as he did previously... a hint that returning to a Holland is not the same as he knew it before?

If it was played out in a coverup as planned, ie: which was going on when Shango wrote, then at that time, IMO, any of the "DirtyHands or dirtyhands" could have had the chance to continue more undercover... before so much of the continued persistence of Natalee's family, the Scared Monkeys, Jossy et al and the boycott really started in full steam.

As Shango said "Aruba is preserved and Babylon (notice the capitals) will pay the price".

Keep remembering the time in which this was written.

Do we have a few English teachers that could go over this? I think he is using subtle hints in where we should look in his use and play with the meanings of words with the use capitals and small letters.

even in "Plain View" and plain view

Is Dompig Arubian by birth or by heritage? I just wondered, When I was reading "DirtyHand is not an Arawak". Of course neither would be the Dutch, any Americans there or others of different birth or Shange could use the use of country origin as being one's heritage too.

Who was the government official that was pictured at the rave parties and had a tickle site?  I just thought of that as being kind of odd. Seems to me he was also trying to explain  many times on TV, "why we just didn't understand THEIR SYSTEM" just like Arlene S, cousin of GW used to.

Does someone have the post that discusses Paul van der Sloot's role in the evidence, court case of Mathews? Seems to me that wasn't all above board also and Mr. Volking (King) was part of that too? Who were the Judges in Aruba at the time and some of the other movers and shakers. It takes time to get one's hands dirty.

Some Monkeys talk of the Mafia. IMO still think if they were involved this would or will take another avenue to be resolved.... not always in blunt force. but very subtle but quick ways. This current PR certainly doesn't help the business/financial interests and survival of Aruba and its interested parties. IMO

Klaas do you, perhaps, have a jpeg of my little impy avatar? Hard drive went down.. thought I had him backed up. TIA   IBE

Capital letters and small letters are indeed significant.

DirtyHand, Dirty Hand, dirty hand

DirtyHand = Posner

IMO

IMO

Posner sent Guido to NL.
Posner paid for Guido's very expensive lawyer.

IMO

I'm not trying to get into the whole Shango translation. I just wanted to show that DirtyHand is Posner. IMO

I also have an idea of who Shango is, and it ain't Gabe Leo.

Rumour or rumor:

Heh Heh... for all the Good Monkeys, Worldwide!

Anyway, was anything ever found out more on the rumor that there were elders at Paulus' home that night playing poker? I thought Anita has said that?? Help... memory fades.

What a web would be woven if it were true and that these were his givernmental friends when "something bad happened" in another part of the home or with someone else in the family and they were there to hear about it first hand after it happened?

What a run-on sentence I just did! But I hope you get the context.

Night all... Keep up the Good Work

IBE

PS Just because Masons take an oath, as many of us do when we take oaths in our work or in our volunteer work or at our church to God every Sunday doesn't mean we support anyone of the group whom we find are not ethical. It boils down, IMO, that I am the one who has to face God alone. It's not a group function. (diddly darn)

Those who harm a group or a religion or a person before finding/ knowing what it/he/she stands for or those in it, should go hide in a Mason jar and put it in the oven.

End of soap box. Thanks for listening. I don't rant here often.

Memphis

HI !!!! I love seeing you! We always seem to be the last ones up.

If you live on the East Coast then you can't sleep? I live opposite and can't either.

Well, good night. Have big day tomorrow opps already today.

Whomever Dirty Hand is, I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of him or her, but still not in the pocket either.

Nite Nite

I have a painting of one beautiful fall leaf (miss the fall colors) and it says "Leaf me alone". Kind of neat at times.

I feel at home with the Monkeys though!

Slippers: Flips Flops. or maybe Joran had a cut on his foot/feet and could not wear regular shoes. And it's very easy to walk around all day in Flip FLops. Especially in tropical areas. Here in Florida in summer months it's practically all I wear. ALso, they had to dispose of evidence so no tennis shoes/K-swiss?

Mason: Maybe a mason who works with concrete. As in pouring concrete around Sloots pool?

Rammstient: He gets very upset and overly portective about the Dutch Judicial system and the laws there within.



Off to bed, have sweet dreams and G'night/G'morning.

God bless~

[/u]

There is the subject of the MISSING CONFESSION that took place after the allowable interrogation hour of 10 PM.  We KNOW that JVDS places ALL blame on OTHERS, so I can hear the story now, can't you??????  The subhuman JVDS tells that a "jealous" Guido did the dirty deed.  PVDS had prepared ALL involved to UNDERSTAND that "ONE WITNESS IS NO WITNESS"  no matter what JVDS declares JUST DENY.  All the while PVDS is planting reasonable doubt with all his internet propagandists who are active to this day, many who are bankrolled through AHATA.

This makes sense to me.  The plan has been at work from DAY ONE, 5/30/05.

Really, really well stated.  A TAKER, always on the receiving end.

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/carpehumor/swa1.png)

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/carpehumor/dasporterbeaho.png)

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/carpehumor/3ed.jpg)

Very interesting. Can you expand more on the part in bold? Did Joran mess up that plan?

If I understand what you're saying, that might be the "other card that was played and lost".

fwiw Memphis

I've always interpreted the statement

"one witness is no witness" because the 'witness' is a SUSPECT.

Again -- fwiw.

HMMMMMMM

is this just their statements or is there some physical evidence?????

I am so confused now!! :cry:

Hello all!! Haven't posted in eons!! School is in now and I am back to my old schedule, bed at 9pm, up at 5am...but I've been checking in.
Missed you all!!

So, seems to me that it is possible that Guido gave Joran a ride home, but from where? If it seems crime scene was VS home, where did he need a ride home from? Are you all thinking he needed a ride home from dropping off Natalee's body somewhere after?

Would you then come home and watch a 2 hour porn movie if you just murdered someone and buried them???!!! I don't know? I always assumed if Natalee died at the sloot home, she was not buried until the next day. And if it was Guido who gave Joran the ride home...then how does the gardners testimony fit in?

I know I am way behind but can someone update me on the current theories with this new info? And if Guido is now in picture, and k2's are out...why then does Jossy have tape saying have enough to convict all 3 on kidnapping and rape? I am totally lost as to how it all fits together now!!

Sue wrote:   "it isn't who you know but who you BLOW on that island"
-
That brings up an interesting question; who else did Guido Wever "know" in the biblical sense?  Is it possible that there is a very powerful man who is homosexual and wants to keep Guido quiet?  Posner? Lorenzo van Rijn?
One of the judges?
The menage a trois of two men and one woman does involve homosexual overtones.  
Slippers would refer to any shoes that are slip-on and do not have shoelaces.

ok...this makes sense...but then why the big deal about not searching the whole vs house?

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

A meeting with the governor today
Chaotic demonstration against bbo

Protesters broke through the barriers that the police have put up to prevent the people from getting too close to the entrance of the Government office.

Minister Nilo Swaen (MEP) of Finance accept<ed> the petition with almost 11.000 signatures from Marlon Pieters, the organizer of the protest action against the bbo.

ORANJESTAD – The manifestation against the introduction of the new taxation on the turnover of businesses in Aruba went very chaotic yesterday.  The police had put up barriers to prevent the protesters from getting too close to the entrance of the Government office.  But these barriers were broken.   The police had trouble keeping the protestors away from the entrance, but they managed.  Despite the difficulties, organizer Marlon Pieters is pleased with the turnout.  An estimate of 700 people took part.  

Pieters is also pleased with the almost 11.000 people that signed the petition against the sales tax.  “The emotions were hot, and that was also bad for me, because I am also a police officer.  But we managed to give the government the petition and that’s what we came for.”  

The protestors all dressed in black, holding posters imaging crying people with texts ‘No more, how much more can the people endure?’ gathered at 15:00 at the Juliana School and the protest march, accompanied by sad music started at 16:30.  This made it look more like a funeral than a manifestation.

The protestors were complaining about not being able to survive with the income they have.  Everything in the supermarkets is very expensive.  100 Florins won’t buy you the necessities any longer.  Aruba is becoming the same as the many Latin American countries that have also introduced such tax: no longer a place to live, says a young woman from Guatemala that immigrated to Aruba.  

The protestors arrived at the government office, but the barriers kept them about 15 meters from the entrance to the building.  But led by AVP-leader Mike Eman they pushed the barriers and shouted ‘Let’s go inside’.  All of this to the dissatisfaction of Marlon Pieters that was trying to keep the people calm.  But due to the big masses of people, he fell and people almost stepped over him.  He managed to jump up fast and for a moment he was afraid that the people would manage to go inside the building.  Pieters and Andin Bikker, who supported the manifestation as leader of PDR had to have the gift of the gab in order to calm the people.  Bikker doesn’t think that the government will mind the manifestation.  “The bbo will be introduced.  This action won’t stop that.  But this is the last chance that the government gets to postpone the bbo, before the unions paralyze Aruba.  The government will have to assume her responsibility, when it comes to this.  We have done our best as political parties.”  

Finance-minister Nilo Swaen (MEP) came out under police protection to accept the petition from Pieters.  He said that he will give a reaction on the petition.  That’s all Pieters wanted, hand over the petition.  But that was apparently not enough for Eman.  He demanded that Nelson Oduber comes out also.  He gave him one hour to do so, and when after an hour the premier didn’t, he incited the people to stay where they are until the government come with a reaction.  

Of the 700 people only 100 were still present around 19:30.  The police and Pieters tried to convince Eman to terminate the manifestation and send the people home.  But he was still not satisfied and demanded this time a conversation with the governor.  He received a confirmation from the governor that he will meet with a delegation the next day at 10:00.  

He then put an end to the manifestation, but some people refused to go home. Minister Swaen will have a conversation with the unions about bbo on Monday.  The unions didn’t take part in the manifestation. They are considering a national strike.

Jossy says...

***********************************

klaas writes:

1. KJ is leaving her position January 1, 2007

2. Jossy has a tape of Dompig saying they have enough evidence to arrest and convict JK2 of rape and kidnapping which would put them in jail for 8 years.

3. There is a witness statement where it's stated that Joran and Guido had more than a platonic relationship. Jossy believes it was in Guido's earlier witness statements.

4. Jossy believes it may have been Ben Vocking that stopped them from searching the entire Sloot residence.

************************************

So, all three, according to Dompig can be arrested for kidnapping and rape, yet the prosecutor does nothing.

And there's a statement indicating that joran and guido do more than play tennis together.  Now that's great.

Where's jossy been with this kidnapping/rape info -- seems like it should have been a headline a while ago?

.

what evidence of rape is there other than their statements?

You ll find out around 12-15-2006.

Memphis,  I could see JVDS on 6/10/05 telling the ALE interrogator's that Guido, in a jealous rage, beat NH to a pulp as JVDS received scratches while he tried to stop Guido.  JVDS left assuming that NH would recover & only Guido knows the location of NH.  Now we have been informed that PVDS was given Guido's phone # "the LIE is to confirm JVDS gambling winnings but" in PVDS MO we can safely assume it was to inform Guido that NO MATTER WHAT may be said in the future & by whom he is to deny & proclaim his lack of knowledge, having an alibi & proclaim his innocence.  Of course, I believe that it is JVDS who did so seriously harm NH, I don't know if there were any witnesses to the act, it is only sure that he did somehow inform the K2 that NH had been injured.  Up til now I think the fix is in because only JVDS & PVDS were involved in the injury & resulting death & the location of the remains.  This is why there has been no claim for the reward, only the guilty KNOW & it is their plan to make more than the reward by their disgusting book of lies & proclamation of how they are such good people & have been so victimized.  ANYBODY WHO BELIEVES THAT IS IN A MISERABLE STATE OF MENTAL ILLNESS & REALLY BELONGS SEEKING PROFESSIONAL HELP WITH THEIR $$$$'S, PASS UP THE GIVING of $$$$'S TO THE MURDERER'S.

Those who will be profitting from the publication of VDS propaganda should be ascertained & if the VDS's are in the group & in the event that Beth Holloway Twitty has the opportunity to address the people of the Netherlands I would appeal to her to take a strong position against this BOOK OF LIES & PURPOSEFUL DECEIPTION.  If the VDS's are profitting than it is a continuation of their thievery from others.  Mr. DeVries spoke just recently of his contacting the author of this upcoming book giving it free publicity & keeping the author's confidentiality adding that little bit of intrigue.  Hopefully the decent Dutch population will not be made fools of by these creatures who are so far from being decent it is revolting.

Hi Rob!

Why do you say 12/15?

I followed the case of Laci Peterson & can recall that the sperm & egg donor's of the murderer wanted to publish a book of lies & NO PUBLISHER came forward with a deal for them as ALL THE PUBLISHERS KNEW THERE WOULD BE NO MARKET FOR THE LIES UTTERED BY SUPPORTER'S OF A MURDERER.

hey Rob, LTNS !!!!

is that the date the judge is supposed to have a decision by?

Hi Rob

Please explain.

Carlo and SG
We know there was a report (to a SG) from a couple north of the hotels that saw two men forcing a women somewhere (from other security guard statement).  Maybe Carlo also knew this report and was trying to find out if it was the security guards who the couple reported incident to.

I think Marriott was more involved than HI. I just think everybody knew we could get info on Posner so he became the easier mislead.
For Shango people: Hadn't we discussed the 7 levels of inferno and the 46th something as being Marriott 7 floors and listed as 46th hotel on Aruba tourism site??

Is this kid with Joran...KEES?
Looks to me he answered the door to De Vries & looked out of the window.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/netherlands-1.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/joran-served.jpg)

Wasn't there mention of a hotel room or hospitality room catching fire in a hotel room shortly after 5/30/05?  Does anybody remember which hotel?  In my mind the Marriott comes up but I am not sure of that at all, as it has been such a long time ago & of course my computer experienced a complete crash.

In the list of hotels the 46th is the Wyndham

Posner stayed at the Holiday Inn
on the 7th floor for a few years
(The Penthouse...)  :?

Thanks Florida.

I think in the one message (from Joran to Kees), Kees is described as mulatto.

I agree.  There are many good Dutch, I'm sure.  DeVries is just an example, but we've also heard from Dutch and Aruban posters who aren't wearing blinders.   We should remember how people criticize all Americans because of a few, because of crime, drugs, arrogance, war, corruption, and government ineptitude.  I'd prefer not to do the same to others.  

I also want to point out that while Posner runs the Excelsior and we have some suspicions of his involvement, there are other mean nasty people doing business in Aruba and other islands in the Caribbean.  IIRC the Russian mob has/had some banks there, and South American drug dealers run their wares through many islands in the Caribbean.  Let's not rule out mean nasty types that aren't the US mob.  

Oh, and Good Morning Monkeys!

I was only able to listen to part of the show, so I'll catch the podcast.  Just wanted to thank Dana for another great show, and also thank his guests for taking some time to talk to us!

:wink:

I think the slippers were because Joran had a cut on his foot.  I think Paulus brought Joran a slipper that looked like this:

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/ADIDASSLIPPER.jpg)

Who?

OR THIS:

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/ADIDASSLIPPER2.jpg)

Sorry..I have not had time to read back a few pages...is this "Rob" from BFN?

Has Peaches checked in this morning? I am concerned - Peaches please let us know how you are, I'm so sorry this chemo is causing you bone pain. {{{HUGS}}}

I think Rob meant there would be more information released around the 15th of this month, I've heard nothing of a court hearing.

Leslie-
Thank you for bringing forth the article regarding the protest, interesting the less poweful citizens of Aruba are stating publicly how much more can we take? Sounds like trickle-down.....

I also want to say that knowing more of the details of Guido finally explains to me, without saying what the rumors have been of some of the Aruban's and even american's posting against truth do for a living/vocation, it does finally explain why they were here and why so soon. It also explains the myriad of malcontents that show up on this board to create dissension and havoc, Aruba has some nefarious characters with some high-profit dirty secrets.

Call-out to Sunfreak as well, hope you are okay, please let us know.

Well I will probably get flamed all to hell for saying/asking this but if Rob knows that we are definately going to know on 12/15 then he should just say it... I hate the cryptic stuff and it's why Red doesn't say I know but can't tell... blah, blah, blah.....

no offense Rob, I just hate the dangling carrot approach....


It's like me telling y'all that I know why jossy didn't mention the video before, but I can't say...

no one wants hear that.... we have all worked way too hard to hear that stuff....

Yes, but he was originally from Scared Monkeys.

hello my name is Robots


i have bones like IRON and blood like MERCURY
and i hate all of em


more each day  8)

Hi and Happy Saturday to all the monkeys!  

Mrs. Red ~ I'm glad to see Rob back in the cage ~ AND, I completely agree with you and the dangling carrot comment ~ I wish he would just say what's happening.

I'll also say that I watch others do that, and always feel left out of the loop, as a few do catch on via *winks*  and *grins*.......so I guess that means it's not a dangling carrot after all if a few get it.  Oh well, I'm rambling and making no sense.  Back to lurking.

Hi Mom... Rob is welcome anytime he feels like talking to us.  I agree that some of the conversations that are obviously off the board do the same thing at times......

Thank you for saying it before I did!  I think Rob loves and craves the attention he gets for his little tidbits.

joran had someone spend the night at his house
i think it was freddie

thats who was watching the porn movies at 3-4 am

joran had to get home to go to bed because he has school the next day
 :roll: LOAD OF BULL !!!!


joran and guido then went out to take care of business :evil:


guido left the island because he KNOWS what went on...

cause he was there

joran told everyone K2 brought him home.. they DID NOT
it was joran's way of LINKING them as suspects


simple as huckleberry pie

she is buried.

If TOILET POLICE would  
get off their FAT ASSES this could be solved

How do we know that Guido is gay.hmmmmmmmm,maybe the sthesuspects told the world.His behavior is very suspiuos,at best.I know about the study on faces,look at J.W.Gacy,J.Dahmer,Wayne williams,etc.I have felt that jdvs is Guilty.CAT

if people die because they overdosed then the body would be right there
and joran and K2 would be able to say hey, she was drunk and doing drugs

the body was hidden because of the evidence on the body

the evidence would show it was not a SIMPLE case of drugs and alcohol overdose

DOMPIG is a JERK

JORAN is a killer and rapist



simple as bluebery pie

guido leaves the country

probably afraid he will end up in a cave ON FIRE

doused with gasoline  


ALE will call it a suicide
 :roll:

I don't like it and in fact I hate it when little tidbits and secrets are
hinted at. By anyone.
These dangling carrots are a tease and as far as I am concerned they are in the same category as Joran saying, someday I will tell you the whole story, but right now, I am not ready.
So, what are we to do, sit here in anticipation waiting for more hints, clues and cryptic messages ?
..
I am not going to fall for any more of that kind of nonsense. And any one who posts that stuff has zero credibility with me.
..
And Rob, what is the point of doing this ?

Robots, I agree....but I have to wonder how/why the K2 went through all of this for no reason...... they are heavily involved as well... maybe the dirty little secret is that there are about 10 or 15 PIMPS that have been doing this for years... what I truly wish is that some of the girls that have had their drink drugged would come forward... but let's face it, everyone sees and knows the dirty little secret... it's why there are empty beaches

well, K2 were duped --i think

initially, to help their FRIEND they lied because they did not know the WHOLE STORY, that Natalee was killed.

im not giving them a free pass, by any means

but, if a friend asked them to just go along with the story and the friend will tell them the REST of the story later... they might have said "OK"

because they did not realize HOW UGLY the situation had gotten

i agree. they have done this before and the results were not like they were this time.

Wonder what else is on the tape.  :?:

lmfao @ mrs. red....flamed to hell, lol...sorry...had to LOL!

I agree MrsR. We know what they've been up to.

I think K2 are guilty of kidnapping and rape. I think Joran & Guido are guilty of murder.

Guido was wisked off the Island. He has been kept out of the news. Guido's alibi is that he was at work and could not have done it (see timeline). Guido was not at work. Posner is his alibi. Posner is saying he was at work.

I'll add, Altruist brought up an interesting theory about the missing statement. Wonder if Joran did implicate Guido.

I am sitting here before I have things to do, readin here. LISTENING TO DANA IN THE POP UP MODE.Coffee. Easy chair, Kitty Kat snuggling on my lap, other Kitty Kat sitting on the arm of the easy chair.
KOOL .

Well I don't intend to choose sides in this one, I posted what I did for I've heard of these videos from another source <not Rob> for some time now. I guess my thought is feeling better about that information for having heard it from Jossy finally last night on SM radio, then hearing it from my source, now to see Rob post about it?

Flaming seems to be the new sport lately, I just wish it was uniformly applied. Whenever I state an opinion or even tire of the games, I get roasted and burned at the stake in the lounge.

So Mrs I agree it's high time for the games to cease, for everyone to work on one team, but the issue also seems to be who is on what team?

I'm on team Natalee. I also have tried to contribute as much as I possibly could to this board, it may not have been as much as others, but I have consistently tried. I have also consistently thanked Tom, Red, Mrs, Klaas for the opportunity to participate here.

Rant over.

Good morning.  Of course, I slept right on through last nite and missed Dana.  I did catch O'Reilly and Geraldo talking about Natalee's case.  Bill is right on the money.  The gov't never meant for the case to be solved.  I love BOR.  I believe he is a good guy with a big heart.  I bet he does good deeds that nobody ever hears about.

Peaches, how are you feeling?

I don't know the legalities of this, but it's not standard procedure.  So while JoeT was rambling about Antonio Carlo being a highly respected attorney and no defense counsel would ever do such a thing, I wanted to slap Greta and get her to say something like "We've already seen that they don't always do things in accordance with proper or standard legal procedure, Joe."  Then I wanted her to say, "Are you telling me, Joe, that there are never any back room meetings or information leaks in the US?"  Also, JoeT, while accusing deVries of lying about Carlo to make money off of his poor innocent scared client, didn't even consider the possibility that maybe someone else was lying - Janssen or Carlo!  That's where Joe loses credibility and I'm glad O'Reilly talked about the search warrant being changed at the time it was executed.  JoeT said the police acted in accordance with a court ordered search warrant - not adding that judicial officials who are friends of Paulus were at the scene and changed it then.  Why, Paulus?  I can't believe it was just because Anita didn't want the police going through her underwear drawer.  She's shown that underwear on US and Aruban TV for goodness sakes!   :lol:

if the police were allowed to search the main house they would have found SHOVELS that were used recently

and dirty clothes
 8)

When JoeT made that comment about DeVries doing the show on Joran for the money, I wanted to scream.  I seriously don't believe DeVries recieved any more money than his normal paycheck from the network.  If anyone's in this for the money and exposure, it's JOET!!!!!

Guys, can someone please post the fake Natalee and Joran photo? TIA

quick JORAN

"go hide the shovels, the police are here"


"ooooohhhhhhhhh  dont worry JORAN, my buddy is here"

I completely agree, Mrs. Red.  The nature of a rape is such that there are many reasons why a victim might delay reporting or proceding with charges.  Also, the violent nature of the crime is such that a 2 year statute of limitations is outrageous.  At least this case has brought that fact to the fore and should give it some attention.  That's how changes come to pass.  

Peaches, I hope you're feeling better.  {{{Peaches}}}
BOR, while I often disagree and don't like his outbursts, is a tough cookie and I like his no-nonsense approach.  I also remember how uncomfortable JoeT was on his show when Bill asked him who was paying him for representing Joran.  JoeT was mad that Bill was bringing it up.  Doesn't surprise me that he came out with info about the search warrant.  Gotta love the guy for things like that.  You can e-mail him at oreilly@foxnews.com if you want to tell him.   :)

It makes you wonder what was in the place.
If there was nothing there, why not let the police search as in the signed search warrant ?
And Ben Vocking sticking his neck out ? And the judge being there. Was the judge there with Ben Vocking when they swooped in on the SG residences ? NO, of course not.
Most of us are reasonable ppl. We can connect these dots. Who else was there ? KJ, was Dompig there ? Jan ?

 :D

I've been hearing that same garbage about Beth and Greta and Jossy and Art and.......since this case started.  Everyone who isn't a Joran, Aruba, van der Sloot fan is in it for the money.  JoeT and Julie are just in it for truth and justice ya know.   :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

I always felt the term "slippers" meant something else to JVDS.  Maybe sneakers.  I know I think bedroom slippers but that may not be the local understanding of the term "slippers".  Does that make sense?  I am way behind and just commenting as I go.  
It's a beautiful day here.

This is my last post on the subject....  there arent' sides to take IMO.  I simply stated that to come in and say that on 12/15 we will know is a dangling carrot and people deserve better... and I do think that.  

No where did I imply that anyone didn't know or was lying about the videos... yes, I have heard before etc... my point is that I would never come in the forum and say I know something you don't know.... that is what I object to.  

If you can't tell it all... then please don't tell - it's that simple. Because if you can't tell it all... then chances are you shouldn't be telling any of it.

As for the fighting.. well life is too short and too precious for getting angry over emails or posts that I don't agree with... it's a very simple proposition for me.  My theory about that holds just like my theory on reading the refugees... it won't change their minds and I don't have the time.  There are  too many wonderful people here that I don't focus on the negatives... too many great minds and too many caring people to worry about those that choose to be assbites...

Life is too damn short and too damn precious - and None, I know that I am singing with the choir on this one :wink:

OH I completely 10000% agree.... at $500 per hour, ya think??

And anyone who is on this side of the family.. TJ Ward, Tim Miller,
Art Wood, Beth Jug, well they all have a drinking problem. Therefore, anything they say is not to be believed because they are drunks.

Yep, and I'm a virgin :lol:

Exactly, Kat_Gram!  Do they think we're stupid?  Maybe, but to me it's like saying "yea, we're protecting our friend and Beth and all you arrogant Americans can't do anything about it."  Then they put their lies out in the Aruban and Dutch media.

None you are not ranting you are speaking the truth.  There should be no teams as far as I'm concerned.  There is a main goal that everyone seems to want happen in this case and that is to find out what happened to Natalee and make sure she gets the Justice she deserves.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/PhotoshopPic2.jpg)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/JoranPhotoshop2.jpg)

Edited to add:  a part of the De Vries show video.  Click on the photo to play the video:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/th_devries-joran.jpg) (http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/?action=view&current=devries-joran.flv)

Katysmom- First of all I am not an attention grab ass.. If I were, I would have posted about the video Jossy talked about last night and all the details I know of it when I learned of it five or so months ago. I dont post on a public board because something are better left in private as Mrs. Red said.

The video is now public knowledge. I have not discussed it with anyone. Now I only said that more would be coming out about it in the near future. Sorry for the heads up. I learned my lesson.

Also, Im not Robots.. LOL.. he way funnier than I and makes me laff my ass off when someone sends me his posts. Robots, you are very funny.

Mrs Red- Happy Holidays to you, Red, Klaas, Tom and to all the other Monks.

 :D

Hammer- Keep Hammering.. you are right on in your analysis. The Truth was always there.

Thx, Klass.............
On the phone with a shrink and she's gonna look at it. Might be interesting....

hi rob,


robots  8)

Mrs Red-

We agree about not dangling carrots for I think at times, some can't understand that much happens behind the scenes that can't be divulged, and if it were it could place those very gains at risk. I think you and Red would both agree with that. I don't post anything I hear anymore because if one does, there is always a suspicion that you are lying or worse, that you are manipulating. At times that doesn't seem fair either. That being said, I have to agree with Hammer that I wonder why Jossy has delayed this for so long? I hope soon we can understand why and have an answer to that question.

As for life being too short, well yes indeed it is, and it's also why I don't suffer through being manipulated very well anymore. I know what death looks like and feels like now, don't anyone ever assume I haven't imagined that moment for Natalee either since having lived through the horror of it without losing my mind for my loved one.

San, thank you for your opinion matters very much to me.

Thanks CBB... I would love to hear her thoughts...

I am listening to Dana about the search warrant. I did listen to parts last night, but it is good to listen again.
a.) They had a signed search warrant for the whole property.
b,) Then it was narrowed on the spot.
What happened in between these two events ?
Who made the legal protestations to the Judge ? Who objected ?
..
What has been on the blogs and from Dompig ages ago was that it was felt that as Paulus was home along with the younger brothers that Natalle would not have been in that part of the house.
Should not these arguements been made in court ?
Take the evidence and then decide if admissable / not admissable/ not relevent.

Kat-

I'd like to know if any of this came up in the hearing this week? Likely not since De Vries is a dirty word to all things Aruban now, but by law and within a judiciary that values the truth, one would have expected it to?

the bold part, cracks me up... because prior to his investigation, he was heralded as a great and wise one

Morning, Monkeys.

Oh, I think Rob is implying when it was said, it will take a couple weeks before we know about whether or not the case against the suspects is thrown out, that something will come down the pike and he probably knows more than I, because I know nothing.

As far as being esoteric about Gabe Leo, that was for Memphis, because I think among some of us here there has always been doubt as to who Shango & Simian are/were and how many dopplegangers were posting.  Memphis finally came to a conclusion that I made long ago and anyone who has followed here knows that I always doubted the voracity of the Gabe Leo a/k/a Shango.  No big secret there.  That is not to say I know who it is but who I think it is not.

Afternoon monkeys.

Regarding the term "slippers," hubby spent many of his formative years on a small island and was trained never to wear his sandy outdoor shoes indoors. He buys shoes that look like something you would wear on a boat that he calls his "slippers" and changes into them from his outdoor shoes every time he comes into the house. What he calls slippers, though, don't look anything what I would think of as traditional slippers.

Another day on the daisy side of the dirt.  Now that I have had my coffee and some Percoset, I am pretty good.  I'm nearly caught up here and that's always good.  So I'm getting psyched to watch the Huskers play Oklahoma tonite.  That should be a great game.  Such an old rivalry.

Peaches... I am glad that you are feeling better today...

now has Sun checked in??

yep and all the more funny now that MSM is hearing Beth state De Vries and SM in the same breath?

I think all the hubbub the hate sites are posting is positive proof it bothers the heck outta them too  :lol:

I'll add that I have NO inside information. none whatsoever. As VMS has in his/her sig line, everything I post is JMO.

I wish that I did have information. Would at least like to know if too much time has been spent going down a wrong path.

I'll also add that there is always the human issue. We're all human. There is always going to be human issues like egos, etc. clouding things up. That does not include the outright evil that has come from some, though.

Just my opinion, and I do realize that I don't have too much importance.

.
SEARCH WARRANT~

Please remember that the Sloot compound features three buildings.  One is the main house, one called the sleeping quarters at least for the purpose of discussion and Joran's apartment.

If Paulus and the younger brothers were in fact sleeping where they would be expected to be, in the sleeping quarters or middle-sized building, then the entire main house was not occupied by any of them and therefore had no reason given that we are aware of for being excluded from the search.  Think of people sharing an apartment building and living in very close proximity.  Think of what can go on just one wall away let alone a separate building without those on the other side of the wall knowing about it.  Or think of a motel with the thin walls separating one room from another.

So even if Paulus and the two younger brothers were present somewhere on the compound, it should not have excluded all the property except for Joran's room and was therefor just a basis for this ruse.  A totally false justification whatever you call that.

And I am sure the answer would be Paulus was sleeping in the main house for blah blah blah reason which would be only another ruse.  They never intended to search there and the original search warrant was their little joke.

But in reality even if the other three family members had been present and sleeping in the normal places one would expect, why not search the vacant larger section of the compound?

  :?

I doubt it. It makes the prosection look bad and it is the prosecutor doing the presentation. And they all knew about it because it was their system that did this.
As for the video, Dompig has stated in the past that there was material from one perp. I never heard all three, of having sex with Natalee who was coming in and out of it. They had that since June of 2005.
The new part to me is that they found a clause in the law that would allow them to lay the rape and kidnapping charges. Now, it they had laid those charges, could they lay the murder ones later ?
I would like to know more about their Crown Witness system.
We we told there was no such thing as plea bargains, but I am thinking the only way to get more out of these perverts is to lay the charges. But then, would a strong case be presented ?

Are you still having bone pain?  :(

Joet said he was pro bono on TV.I heard him,and he speaks like many attorneys,with a forked tounge.

memphis you are important.  Everyone on the board is important.  What one person doesn't catch in those statements another person does.  We all look at things in a different way.  Just like you are good at Shango and I suck at it.

You're important to me!  I love seeing your cute little avatar here.

Oh I disagree, you are very important... we are ALL important... after all, we ARE  monkeys...  :D

Yes.  It's very weird.  Comes and goes.  Usually happens in the big bones like femur, hips, back.  Percoset works well.

[/b][/color]

San once again we agree and like always you said it so much better... Keep in mind monkeys, DeVries got a lot of info from reading y'alls comments on here.... now doesn't that say a lot??????  We do help and everyone is important...

Actually I was about to ask Memphis to share her theory of who Shango is with all of us, because I value her opinion. So give it up Memphis, I really want to know !

I also would like to hear who tyler thinks it isn't !

Now my question is what if there is proof that the brothers were indeed with Anita in Holland.

:oops:  I really wasn't fishing...I don't think, but thank you.  :wink:

He is so in love with himself.  When I see him on TV I always think, look, he's lying!  His mouth is moving!

I doubt he's doing this pro bono.

well I was worried and hate to think of you in pain, but I know you have the resolve and attitude to defeat this, I just wish we could make it easier for you.

So very sorry to hear that. Is that a side effect of the chemo?

Oh, I wish I could have found the NG show in CNN archives.
Joran's apartment was deemed ( by who, you insert names ) to be a separate residence on the property. It isn't by American laws as there is no  kitchen, dining room. The laundry facilities are in another part of the house. Joran was not a tenant on the property. He did not pay rent on
the property and he had full access to every other part of the property.
So, was KJ ambushed by a well planned technicality and did she get caught without a handy legal opposition ? Or did she jsut giggle and cave ?

Thanks, None.  The encouragement I get from y'all helps me tremendously.  It really does.  And most of the time I feel okay.  The days following chemo always suck in varying degrees but then it bottoms out and heads up again.  Very predictable.  

I wish we could see the de Vries program.  I have read the synopsis elsewhere and it sounded interesting.

You do realize that I know nothing for sure, right?

So, I'm not really dangling a carrot, when I say I'd rather not say on the board.  :lol:

Seriously, I don't want to say, because I think that Shango is still around.

Videos -- A Question...

nonesuche and Rob have bother referred to "videos" in recent posts, and also refer to some mention of these videos in media: either Dana & Jossy or Bill O'Reilly.

Can a better informed monkey kindly summarize what "VIDEOS" are being referred to, what the videos are presumed to show, and any other relevant info?

Many thanks -- this is one piece of info I have missed.

.

I'm with Hat on Janssen, she was in on this from the get-go. She's only made small stabs throughout whenever the heat was turned up, at some placating small nibble toward accountability, almost like a teaser.

I never forget even her own staff turned on her by meeting with Dave either, and blowing the whistle on the Gottenbos.

Memphis,

Here is my e-mail address:   sockmonkey_mom@yahoo.com

If you feel okay about doing it, would you e-mail me and tell me privately who you think Shango is? I know it will be your opinion, but I've always been very interested in the whole Shango thing. Thanks!

Memphis, the bone pain is a side effect of a Neulasta shot that I get the day after chemo.  The purpose of the shot is to ramp up the production of white blood cells so I can fight infection.  The main side effect is bone pain.  The commercials say "mild to moderate".  Big people lie.  I had a pain in my breastbone one day while I was driving to work that sucked the air right out of my lungs.  Therefore, Percoset.

Memphis !  :shock: inquiring minds want to know !

Hammer-

Klaas can likely answer it better but the most recent video we are referring to Jossy released openly last night, it's video he has of ALE admitting to certain truths such as feeling the death of Natalee occurred at the VDS residence. That was likely what BOR was referring to last night as well. You can listen to Dana's podcast for the interview with Jossy discussing it.

Will I be required to list all my reasons for thinking so?  :lol:

{{{ HUGS }}} the pain you endure via treatments is hard to describe Peaches, just so sorry you have to suffer so much to beat this beast. I am always so proud of you !

No requirements at all - any crumbs will be appreciated.  :D

Peaches, I'm so sorry. It is horrible to be in pain. I am glad to hear that it is a side effect, though.
 
I had my own little run-in with the c-monster, but my battle was very easy compared to yours.  :(

LOL at the little Boston.

OK, but I gotta run right now. Honest.

Okay, now that I'm caught up here, I need to check my dining room paint job and see if I need to touch up some places.  Not to mention the long list of household stuff.  DH is off to do two shows with his quartet so I'm on my own!  WOOHOO!!!!

Hugs to y'all for your constant prayers and support.  I appreciate it more than you know.

Whoah.................I'll try to remember everything she said, (Dr. Robbins can spin a yarn and rather enjoys the challenge). Background and disclaimer: Board Certified Psychiatrist, 22 years private practice, 6 years for Community Mental Health, my clinic, and Social Security. Staff priviledges at Virginia and Tenn State hospital and VA in Tn. Staff position at ETSU Medical School. She has NO independant knowledge of this particular person (Joran) and any professional opinion has no basis other than generalities. ( I promised I would make that clear before sharing her opinions with anybody.) OK!

First, the fact that the picture was made at all, either by his own efforts or commissioned, only makes sense to a culpable party. Not logical for an innocent party who has been the victim of false accusations to memorialize such an upheaval to his life. Action would be expected of antisocial ( phsycopathic) personality: Souvenir, and if picture is chosen, it says, " Me and Natalee have a secret" in the face of a world that wants to know. Asserts the control that is the major player in antisocial personality.
The timing of the picture is telling; paralells Joran's transition from feeling the heat/threat to beginning to feel comfortable again. When the heat was on, Focused anger, hatred, rage tw'd Beth ( probably why pic was in her house; intruding her life as she was intruding his). " He'd like nothing better than to break into that Bitch's (Beth's) home." As the threat of being caught lessened he may actually enjoy some of the attention and more likely to accept risk ( having the pic made at all). Public interview was evidence of increasing comfort and willingness to take risk; the successful risk-taking regains his control.
As quickly as he has cycled through the stages, he'll have other incidences in his life. Look at OJ, and the recent book, "IF I did it". That wasn't all about the money. Need to assert control, but because of his age it has taken a longer time to reach the level of comfort to balance the risk to gain it.

That's about all I can remember, and I typed it quickly so forgive the spelling errors. For what it's worth, I wanted to share her thoughts.

Hey Monkeys....I can not believe I missed BOR.

Now trhat Karen Jansen has her ticket out of d :oops: dodge...
maybe they will come to some real conclusions...now that all the
relevant parties ( Dompig, KIA warden,  Vanderstratten, Jansen) have moved on .....with their lies....( did i miss anyone???)


IPSIGS--the answer to your q re: Carlo/ MJ is no---not ever

Not just ALE but DOMPIG in particular.

Edited to add:  Jossy said on Dana last night that he had a video of DOMPIG admitting that they had enough evidence on JK2 to convict them on rape and kidnapping charges.

Wow CBB-

Thank you ! What was the climate in mid-January when Joran made that request? I need to review the timeline to see how much heat actually was on the agenda?

I don't think the photo was taken at Nat's house but at the house of one of the MB kids? Just thought I'd let you know that?

It used to be blasphemy to say that, Memphis.  I was flamed, lied about and thoroughly castigated because I did not believe Gabe Leo was Shango.  And yet when he posts on the FP even if Klaas brings it over here, no one runs over there to ask him about being Shango or to share some of his insight with us.  And most of us wish he wouldn't share as much as he often does in his rants, lol.  Very pro-MEP Aruba,  :lol:

But then I have always found Shango to be about as accurate as a fortune cookie.  Gets a lucky hit every once in a while.  The "code" is in Marvel comics and not some deep thinker's mind.

Rave= date rape drug.  House of Rave = C&C, elders, Babylonians, etc. all in the comic series.  Nothing deep or profound about it.  I have picked too many of them off the floor not to recognize the terms and phrases.

But as you say, this is just what I think.   :wink:

Woops! I told her it was Beth's house. Sowwy.

I always feel better when you tell the details, I listened to the podcast while posting so wanted to be sure that was correct!

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/names%20and%20words/rocks.gif)

Don't be sorry, actually my mind was factoring through another angle, for we don't know Joran didn't know that it wasn't Nat's house, right?

But if he did, what if he yearned in some sick way to be part of the MB group? Would that have been a high for a sociopath as well? I have to wonder, something along the lines of I walk among you but you never had a clue?  :shock: