Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/candleman2justice2007.jpg)

hey,hey,hey

GGGRRRRRR

Did that Tiger cheat this time?   :shock: :lol:

Made it  :lol:

Is Lala's here?  I wanted to tell her that Anidac was here last night.

He cheated last time too :lol:

Hey,  I was really not trying!  How did I get in here 2nd.  LOL

It was good to "see" Anidac again.  But she sure seems busy these days.  Hope she can drop in again soon, and in the meantime, get some rest.

You did not fudge...

Oh, sure.  Uh huh... :D  :D

They still sell those candy ciggy's here. Popeye brand.
SIL bought some for kiddo. I was steamed and gave him a lecture.
He won't be getting any more.

Just posted by Viet Vet on the front page of SM:

Gabriel’s 55. What Gabe says in comment 55 is pretty much the way it was during the first few days. I went to Aruba 3 times, every time by private jet and did go thru the area he mentions. Claudio was in charge of that area as I remember and Alberto worked for Claudio. All three, Gabriel(his girl friend too), Alberto, a girl I called Ava(she looked like Ava Gardner) and Claudio traveled with us as ALE sent us on one wild goose chase after another. I met Van der Straaten on the Wed. after Natalee went missing. It was very clear to us that the cover-up was in full swing. Claudio, Alberto, and Gabriel all tried to help us and in the beginning Julia Renfro was with us. About Wed. or Thur., someone in the government or tourism or law enforcement,,or more probably all of the above started talking to the people who were trying to help us get some answers. I do remember them talking to some of these people and telling them to watch what they were saying and doing. It appeared they put pressure on anyone they could. Charles Croes and Julia turned on us fairly quickly, but they did have leverage on them. Claudio,Alberto, and Gabriel were still with us when I left the third time I was there. It was fairly open, Aruba’s powers that be did not want us in their country any longer. I don’t think they will ever let me return, as well as our group who searched so hard the first few weeks. This whole affair is very hard to understand because of all the corruption and coverups. They had no idea Beth would get there so quickly and that her friends would all show up and try to get some answers. The end result will be the demise of Aruba. When a government stoops as low as they did in the coverup, then end result will be devastating to their country’s tourism

Two weeks ago I was so certain something would be happening that memorial day weekend.  I haven't had that feeling since then. I was really feeling depressed when it passed and nothing happened.  I know the "two year" deadline is approaching, but I don't feel that same sense of "happening" that I felt then.  Maybe I am protecting myself from disappointment again.  You think?

oldfart



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Location: Illinois
 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Sorry  
I did a GREAT job messing up that post...
I was trying to point out that Satish.. made the drive after his statement on the 31st.. and then maybe again on the 1st.
Deepak and Joran got to go it the 1st (of course)
And that Deepak was with Joran on the 31st after their statements.
Oh..
And that Joran had been talking to Deepak before / after his statement on the 31st.
Sorrry
 
 
---------------------------------
I think we both agree that ALE was either very sloppy with this or they were very deliberate in giving J2K a chance to get their story straight.  As far as I am concerned I just don't believe ALE was that sloppy.  I can't imagine how frustrated the FBI must have been during this time.

1 thing,I mean 2 things,Justice has arrived,Lord Stanley's cup is in the house and Guido might be gay.

I am so glad to see him posting again.  I was furious when he was "doubted" and pushed away.

Maybe so AZSunny.  I start to feel my hope flagging, and then I think of Beth and Dave and Jug.  How hard it must be for them.  And then I feel more determined and feel there has to be justice for Natalee.

 :D

I won’t bore everyone here with the details, but Court TV has finally started promoting the season premier of Haunting Evidence.  Just minutes ago Carla told me that she does name names in this episode and some of those names are within the judicial community of Aruba.

She also said there will be a surprise just before the show that might help strengthen everyone’s belief in the process.  From what I gather the “surprise” has to do with a past case, but I am short on details right now.

 :lol:  :lol:

No one ever expects the Spanish inquisition.

You caught my attention when you posted "she does name names..."  Good.

So anyway Easy, about that pickled okra....... :lol:

Thank you VV-

Couple this with what I discovered happened to other families and you have the GAME they play.. it didn't work this time... they are busted and it's now up to the KLPD to nail it shut. If they don't you will know the whole Dutch Government is corrupt. It's really that simple.

She had told me that she did, but she feared CTV might edit that portion.  I take it that they will let her story go as is now.

I'm going to write something up about what all she has told me, but that will be tomorrow.

I ate the last of that pickled okra a little earlier and it was good!  Not all that hairy at all. lol

Well, good!

I've decided that everytime people stop posting we need to talk about food to start people talking again, so hang on to a few pickled okra stories, okay?  :lol:

Yes, it is that simple, isn't it?  Those of us who are impatient and want answers now are jumping to that conclusion.  However, I'm encouraged by the lack of leaks, the information we get from Jossy that the Dutch are still working the case, the Peter de Vries and Jensen shows giving the case air time, and the high level of activity we see on the boards, along with the emergence of names we haven't seen in a while.  It all combines to keep my faith intact.  It is coming.

I want to give the Dutch the benefit of my good will.  
I want to believe in the integrity of the Dutch investigative team, their KLPD.
I want to believe the Dutch punish people who kill others.  
I want to believe the Dutch have more, rather than less, in common with us as citizens of the world.
I want to extend my hand in friendship with Dutch people.

However, the outcome of this case will determine what I believe and how I behave.

truthseeker2
BINGO
Will there be sloppy work / mistakes made an any investigation? Yes... but NOT having all them at the police station for interviews  at the same time  is just one thing that says cover-up conspiracy too me..

Why would they not  have the three there at the same time?
Tuesday, 31 May 2005
Joarn   around 12:30  http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=184
.......Hmmm took 1:15 get from the school to the police station
Deepak  around 15.30
Satish  at 19:20

BTW...  these statements are not on the List / spreadsheet for the DR. Phil case ..  :shock:  :?

Hi Monkeys,
Should we be worried about Robots?
I brought these post over from the other thread so I will probably mess them up. just good reminders.

Speaking of okra, many years ago me and the wife met the in-laws at a seafood place and we all started the meal with a cup of gumbo.  After the mother-in-law finished up her gumbo she said, "That stuff wouldn't be all that bad if it didn't have all that okra in it!" lol  The wife then explained to her that it wouldn't be gumbo without okra.

Well, it was funny at the time.........   :?

I wasn't trying to be first,just happened.Three things,I meant to say(nobody expects the Spanish Inquision,which also happened in Holland)Justice is in the station.I saw a special on Arnhem tonight(pre Joran),and it seemed nice.Mostly rubble and flames at end of show.

It has to be better than BOILED okra  no matter where it is made.

So true Easy.I love Gumbo and the okra,that goes in it.

Sometimes it's just good to be able to laugh at the mother-in-law, LOL.

There are some flower gardens here in town called Rock City Gardens cause they're on top of a mountain with lots of rocks amongst the flowers. We took my MIL there once, and all the way back home she kept saying, "Why do they call such a pretty place Hard Rock City?"  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Thanks AZLady for trying to stay positive.

It was nice to read a post from Vietvet again. It had been awhile. I Imagine he is just like the rest of us monkeys. He may not post often but probably still reads.

I tried reading back to where I was on the last thread. Did I miss it? Did they say who the suspect is in Kelseys dissapearance? Is it the one Shellbell told us about. Have they released a name?

I love good gumbo too!  Gumbo is the African word for okra.

That sums my feelings exactly!!!!!! :smt112

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I can handle that okra in small amounts but my kids will not touch it. Far better than a soft shell crab I say, now those I cannot eat just too furry and crusty and those legs !

I am very happy to see viet vet post again and I hope he can more often.

BT, I haven't posted one thing to Dilbart in a long time  :lol: and I am finished discussing S&S as it relates to AG or not !

I seldom read the front page comments , but I guess I need to start.  I think this front page post by LilPuma was right on the money:

Are you watching and listening, Aruba? Taking notes? The devastated family of Kelsey Smith has been informed that their daughter’s body has been found. My prayers are with them. Police have a suspect. Police didn’t tell the father to go sit in a bar and wait. Police went out immediately and got security tapes for clues. They acted on those clues, getting enhanced versions and releasing them to the press asking for help. They have asked and gotten cooperation from other law enforcement agencies, including the FBI. They have a suspect identified and they’re not waiting to see who his relatives are before putting his picture on TV. I don’t know if they’ll find the perp, or if they do, they’ll get a conviction. But no one has said that Kelsey’s shorts were too short, her tank top too revealing, no one is hiding this crime, pretending it didn’t happen or protesting because it makes Kansas look bad. If the parents were critical of investigators off camera, no one would threaten to stop investigating — that would have made the news. The government didn’t give 4000 people the day off work to search, while only 400 showed up to do so. Volunteers took their own time from their lives on their own dime to help this family. Take notes, Aruba. We don’t always get it right either, but this is how it’s done.

I sure do miss that bunny of Dilbart's, though. You know I saw one of those at a street market in England and almost bought it, but I didn't have room for it in my luggage.  :(

Sam, I understand why people are discouraged and disgusted.  I am, too.  I do not call people names, but I am not going around shouting praises for the Dutch for how this case has been handled, either.  It's been a long, long time.  We've seen many Arubans heap insult onto injury where Beth, Dave, and Jug are concerned.  I will defend Beth, Dave and Jug and their families to the end, even if it means a few Arubans and a few Dutch are insulted along the way.  The lines have been drawn, and we did not draw them but they were drawn for us.  We have no choice but to see this through to the end.  There will be an end.

That is an exceptional post by Lil Puma, thank you for bringing it to our attention Bobo........any sign of your pup yet? I so hope he turns up.

you can get them on ebay  :wink: that's how i found photos for my daisy dilbart avatar  :lol:

Tim Miller is going to be on Greta tonight talking about the Kelsey Smith case.

No sign of the pup yet - it is not our dog but the bloved pet of my daughter's good friend.  We are still hoping she is found safe and sound.

Thanks for asking.

Thanks for the heads up Red, I'll turn it on now!

Kewl! I love ebay (and the fact that I've bought 362 things there does NOT mean that I'm addicted).  :oops:  :lol:

I don't care for softshell crabs either but some folks will pay a premium price for those babies!  I like a stuffed crab and I like their claws!

Just another little tid-bit from Joran's On June 14th, 2005 statement(we think)

Talking about his 5/31/2005 interview


I can see it now...
Well Mr. Jacobs and Mr. Croes as to your question of what the girl was wearing.. I can not recall  but let me phone Deepak & I will get an answer for you..  Now if you are talking about under garments her panties were....

Sorry  but sometimes it is hard not to (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/explode_small.gif)

i feel super delicious

the more time the DUTCH take the better

im going to have a cigar when they put paulus away

 8)

I think all of those sea things with claws are just big spiders!  :shock:

Thanks, Red. I'm watching FOX now.  By the way, thanks for the FP post about the Booz2Go.  I think it really points out the cultural differences between the Netherlands and the US.

Kelsey's case is just killing me.  Pretty young girls just graduated from high school running to a Target to grab a gift for her boyfriend and minutes later she is gone forever, because of some monster!  What can be done about this stuff?????

(http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/3.gif)

 :wink:

i hear ya Easy

sickening  :x

Kelsey's case is the most heart wrenching in a long time. So terrible.

The Promise of Greatness Gone.

I so agree with everything you said Az.
Yes Bobo that was such a great post  from Lil Puma.
Nonesuch, It does not matter how many times you change your avatar. I will always think of you peering over that book. Of course it could have a butterfly as well.

Easy- I have the video.. courtesy of Carpe on my site..Mr. Smith thanks Kelsey's boyfriend for everything he did.

if you haven't seen it.

Tim's face is so full of compassion it's tough to watch as he speaks about how heartbreaking these outcomes are, god bless him.

Sam, I can't be without my butterfly now  :wink:

  LOL I can help yah out there Robots.. I will even BUY you a dang cigar? What do you want.. Acids? Blondies.. Kuba Kuba..
Drew Estate is very popular where I work  :wink:
 Or how about a good Montecristo cigar?  Or a punch?  :)
You name it.. if you are right.. I have access to over 400 brand of cigars.. you name it.. its yours on me!  :wink:

thank you, i dont know anything about them...  :lol:

but im going to have one... i will let you pick
 8)
i am 100 percent positive about the DUTCH in my opinion

they could have SHUT this baby down weeks ago.....they are on this like a HOUND DOG  8)

 Hi  Rob..

 I agree.. very sad and you and Carpe have done a great job on your site keeping up with the news.  Thank you to you both.
 I know you are hurting.. so HUGS to you.. and if THAT pisses anyone off.. I dont much give a rats ass.

It takes very special people to do the kind of work TES does.  Bless them all!

Thanks, I did see that and it is hard to take.  I don't know how the family held up so well.  People lose loved ones every day for one reason or another, but things like this just really get to a person.

I understand having the butterfly as it is your contact with Rick.

Tim and all the folks involved in TES are such compassionate people. I think the same can be said of the Monkeys when it comes to helping those in need. we have our anger as well but that is generally at the circumstances.

I will
#1   thank the LORD
#2   cry to http://nightangelmusic.com/sounds/short/11-1.mid
#3   maybe to http://www.geocities.com/phantomhaunter/badgirls.mid  only thinking of GOING TO JAIL in place of Bad Girls :wink:  :lol:  :lol:

I agree Easy, her family was remarkable and the comment she was scrubbed with sunshine is heart breaking too. I think it's knowing the brutality and the suffering and the fear which were all part of her last hours that make these cases so hard for she was to her family, still a child.

 There was just a cast on the 10 pm news on our local Fox 53 station here.
I went downstairs and hubby was watching it.. and said what a shame..
I said I been reading about it online.. he looks sad even.

I agree Sam and I know you understand why I need it. In fact the disabled vietnam vets are coming this weekend for some of his things which is what I think he would have wanted. I am hopeful those vets can use the medical equipment and clothing for those who can't afford those things.

Great post.  I agree totally. Sad outcome for Kelsey and her family, but they have her to take home.

and maybe listen to NORAH JONES  8)

 Robots. I will promise you.. here in front of all of us SM folks.. and lurkers.. good or bad.. I will personally send you the most expensive cigar I have in our store.  :)  I bet the farm !

Old Fart,

The more I read those transcripts the more disgusted I get.  Keystone Kops would have been frustrating, but the deliberate mismanagement should be unforgivable.

Make no mistake, I feel bad that the entire island has had to suffer for their actions, but on the other hand I do believe there are people down there that can come forward and tell the truth.  If they would just do that this could be over for them.  It will never be over for Natalee's family and friends, but those in Aruba could do the right thing and end the 'mystery'.  Someone down there needs to be the hero.

:oops:
should have said DANCE to #3  http://www.geocities.com/phantomhaunter/badgirls.mid

you are very kind... better send me a cheap one
it might make me puke  :wink:

but maybe you could send a cigarette..i have not had one in a long time
and everyone says im quite cranky since i quit

i find that astonishing that anyone thinks im cranky  :lol:  :twisted:

Most sad of circumstances and so hard to except the fact that a person with nothing to offer can have so much control and cause so much harm to someone with so much to offer.  These things also make you wish you could have been near by to hear something and intervene.

These cases stir up a very complex mix of emotions.

I'd be more than happy to pitch in and by a few boxes to pass out so we can all light one up!

a GROUP photo as we TOAST to the  FRYING of  paulus  8)

i like that

During those early days any time someone mentioned the words "cover-up" or "conspiracy" they were quickly shouted down.  I remember the discussions RWV before it turned often times people would wonder aloud if this thing was much BIGGER than it really was -- and now behold, two yers later we can all see that indeed -- it IS MUCH BIGGER!!

Furthermore, I still do not feel we have seen even the HALF OF IT.

There are powerful forces on that island with global ties that just want this thing to go away.

But, it will not.

It makes you feel good about being a member of the human race, right?

To know that an 18 year old girl's life is really more important than an entire government and all the corrupt money grabbers that cover for it.

Let the truth be known.

It's not over yet.

God bless the Human Race!  It's the very thing that makes us stand tall among all of God's other creatures -- we care...we care...we care...

I honestly think I would fly down to Aruba, walk out to the quarry, light up that cigar, and then turnaround and fly right back home.

If I could see where the average person of Aruba was as PO'd  as I am,
my feeling about the boycott might change  BUT..
They can take to the street to protest Beth's use of the Word CRIMINAL  but they cannot do anything to get "criminal actions" brought for the lessor crimes that were committed.

i really LIKE that  8)

I agree.  Look, I know there are good people in Aruba just like there are in this country.  The thing that bugs me is that you don't see any of them speaking on behalf of the victim there.  The only ones who do speak out seem to want to blame the victim.  Where are the Arubans who support justice, not just for Natalee but for their own families.  What if Natalee had been one of their own??

Tim Russert is making some very poignant comments regarding the loss of parents and children on Greta now, I hope some of you heard him.

I son't have that on right now.  What did he say?

well that came out wrong, I meant to say i hope some of you could hear them also, I didn't think quickly enough to transcribe them. I think I'm tired, a bit depressed by today's news too. Take care all and rest well.

'Nite None.  I'm not far behind you.  I have an early day tomorrow.

My thoughts on what was going on in Aruba :
The Aruba Hotel and Tourist Association was running the show.
And I do mean " show ".
Did you see what Gabe relayed about Charlie Croes ?

He's recently written a book on fathers and he was mentioning the race for president, Greta remarked all of the candidates are fathers too. Then Tim mentioned watching Kelsey's family and said something to the effect that we are never truly adults until we lose a parent and face our own mortality. (I agree that is a huge milestone and was for me). Then he said he couldn't fathom losing a child.  :(

O/T

ANAHEIM DUCKS BEAT OTTAWA SENATORS 6-2 IN GAME 5 TO WIN STANLEY CUP

Yeah, said he was kinda creepy.  But, I didn't need to hear that from Gabe.

 Robots.. you want one with a tip or without?    :wink:
 Honestly those cheap cigars wil make  you sick.. you need  a good expensive one !  On the house Robots!  But I can send you a Marlboro if you want..  or Yapperz can send yah a Winston if you like that better!  8)

G'nite NoneS..
BTW   battered & fried Okra (cut up ) is very, very good  (not as good as Cupcakes but still yummy)
JMO

IMO, almost anything is good battered and fried  :lol:

NO cigarettes  for Robots
If they are cranky give'm some oil
but no cigarettes if they managed to quit :!:
JMO

I'll drink to that, Klaas!

ALMOST  is the key word there :lol:

Well, at least one good thing happened today.  The Cardinals just won a game.  I think I'll clock out now so I can go to bed on a good note.  'Nite all.

 :wink:

Well maybe Canada will have some news on now that the Hockey Night in Canada which is morning,  noon and every night is OVER until next season.  
..

Okra-cornmeal-salt-fried.  oh yea.

That's the way I like it!  The battered little puff balls of okra are okay, but I like it the old fashioned way with cornmeal.  Same with fried green tomatoes.   :D

 Me too, but it has been awhile since I have had those.  Our Tomatoes tend to fry on the vine here!

Off to make a late dinner.  Hubby finished the extra watering for my plants.  How did it get to be 8 PM?  Oh yea, worked a 10 1/2 day.

Nope

 Onion rings sound good about now!

Yup..Agreed..Maybee we can chip in for Catalina Island or something 8)

...jumping ahead before I catch up....... :

I fancy myself a cigar aficionado ....... just don't have one of those god-awful "Dutch Masters."  :wink:  :wink:

NOPE  :?  Okie Dinner has place of your choice

I would say How  about a Monkey convetion in Aruba  at the prison
so we all could say goodbye in person  and the rates may be real cheap
but  (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/hide.gif) I would get  (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/slap.gif)  /  (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/6548f03f.gif)  / (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/thrownout-1.gif) or even   (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/lalas_book.gif) by LaLa's so I'll just  (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/ziplip.gif)  and call it a night

SeeeYaaaByeee

On KCFox they are reporting they have someone in custody for the murder Kelsey Smith, a new conference coming up within the hr.

foxkc.com

RED is working on a front page post right now that I think everyone will be interrested in.  I'll let you know when it posts.  :wink:

Thanks for the heads up!

Hi Monkeys...I was on here way back in the earliest days of the Holloway investigation, and now I'm back...I've lurked a lot and wanted to re-join the conversation. Just wanted to let y'all know I'm here.

Thanks to Red and Klassend for helping me join back in!

You can see the press conference, when it starts at this link as well:

http://media.myfoxkc.com/live/index1.html

Welcome back BlueKYGirl.

Welcome back BlueKY!

Always interesting posts from Viet Vet.

Do we know if he was part of the group who went to the VDSs on night 1?

Or part of Dave's group?

I'm pretty sure he was friends with Jug and Beth and wasn't part of Dave's group but I don't know if he was there the first night.

 Welcome back ~!!   :)

Thanks for all the warm welcome, everyone! I'm so glad to see the monkeys haven't given up hope about finding out the truth after all this time. (I know I haven't--and I really believe the truth about what happend to Natalee will come out and justice will be served).

Blue KY? That sounds kinky.   :shock:

It stands for Kentucky...it's a reference to UK blue and to the famous Loretta Lynn song. (Not very kinky at all)...

Is this a form of new girl hazing?

YW , LOL  :lol:  KY = Kentucky

Everyone on the chat says that the guy on her myspace lives 4 blocks away from target.

There's going to be a news conference tonight.  I think they have someone in custody.

Sorry Blue. I was just kidding. Welcome back.
[I do think it is an open question as to whether blue KY would be hazing to the girl or the guy.  :)  ]

Welcome back, BlueKYGirl...

GO BIG BLUE, UK

YellowRibbon,

I think most get your drift of humor, sotospeak..

http://media.myfoxkc.com/live/index1.html

Watching...they also are chatting there.  I told people about the pics that were posted here.  Side by Side

If y'all want to haze me, bring it. I proved way back during my days as a pledge that I can take it!  ;)

LOL - was that you?  I saw that!  :lol:

Do you like UK?  We do at our house.

No Hazing allowed here UNLESS you are a Robots  :lol:

Your avatar says it all: You, me and the toilet.

Sometimes with me and this case it's the old cliche about laughing instead of crying.

Oh yes--my husband is an absolutely RABID fan. I'm more mellow about it (it doesn't ruin my life if they lose a game)...we have a good time watching UK football and basketball. If it were up to my husband, our whole interior decorating scheme would be in UK blue. Glad to meet another fan!

I think I followed you....but we both may be down the tubes... :lol: You're OK, I'm OK...and yes...if we don't laugh once in a while, the alternative is crying...and that's a sad fact.

Tyler... I meant your old sig line... LMAO...

Hi shehll bell....YR, good to see you BKYgirl...

redcat is sitting here helping me... so pardon my bad
t

i hope they fry the gu.y if he is guilty..too many chances given to this slime already long history of crime and he is out...

Press conference in the Kelsey Smith case in about 20 minutes.  I believe they may have someone in custody.

Goodnight, monkeys. Thanks again for the warm welcome. See you all tomorrow!

klasend you know how I role!  I am a multi tasker!  5 browsers open!

Hello, BlueKY.  :)

thanks, Klaasend...

Goodnight Blue. Remember who coached KY's football team in the late forties and early fifties?  Bear Bryant.

Now you sound like me, lol  :lol:

he finally decided that he didn't wish to help... let me translate...

Hi ShellBell, Yellow Ribbon and Blue Ky... all of y'all ...

and I was talking about the guy that is perhaps the guilty one of murdering Kelsey.... I am so sick of criminals running around and harming the innocent... and this is beginning to happen far too often...

I don't completely understand why but the news of Beth and John Ramsay bothers me. Some of it is seeing Beth and Jug torn apart by this case.

I know... but I also keeping thinking they deserve to have some happiness... they have been through so much... but it's just weird...

Hi Mrs. Red. I did not recognize your avatar.

MRS RED!!!!!!  Hey!!!!!!  I am like a crack addict tonight on 5 different sites...lol.  I need help!

I have needed to have lots of clothes changes this year... must be middle age creeping in...

 shell... good to see you... has there been anything new on Tara?

Kelsey Smith live press conference in 5 minutes.  You can watch it from this link:

http://media.myfoxkc.com/live/index1.html

Good evening Monkey friends!  Just stopping by real quick. Have daughter and grandson here from NY, so hard to check in.  We have been watching the Kelsey case unfold today.  OHHHH, makes me soooo sick!  :evil:

Thanks Klaas, I was looking for it on cable news, but nothing yet.

need to run out for now...

nite y'all...

Nite Mrs. Red

Oh, darn.  The site is coming up for me, but red X where the video should be.  It's not playing for me.    Has anybody heard if it is that kid in the video they have been showing on the news?

News conference any minute.  They have made an arrest.  Can watch the news conference at the link above.

Turn on FOX news, it will probably be on.

Fox news, said news conference coming up.

Edwin R. Hall arrested for the kidnapping and murder of Kelsey.  I don't think that's the guy that was on her myspace.

Let me guess, it's a guy who got out of jail early even though he is a known danger.

Yes, you stole a good coach from Alabama, Bill Curry.  sigh, I was kind of glad to see him go.  I am an Auburn fan but we like Big Blue too.  We had one do graduate work there.  Loved Rick Patino.

They made an arrest. Same guy seen on the surveillance camera. Edwin R. Hall.

Does anybody have her myspace?   My daughter was looking for it.   It's really bothering her.  She's 24 and....

of course... long history :twisted:  why should we lock up criminals?  (heavy sarcasm note)

They can't comment on whether or not he has a criminal record. We shall see.

For REAL!  I'm ashamed!  Sickening.  That kid on the video looked pretty young too.

IMHO, that kid on the myspace was far too thin, had a thinner, longer neck, bigger ears, different eye color and different hair although hair can be fixed.

WFT!  They just interruped it with a freakin' commercial in mid sentence!  :evil:

What is her myspace link?   I wanna see.

they mentioned he was 26... and I got the criminal history thing from Greta.... it is beginning to simply astound me that criminals really truly have more rights than eveeryone else...

Fox said the guy is 26. Must've started early to have a long criminal history.

Yeah.  :roll:

Ha. On his tenth or so "can't comment" Fox went straight to a commercial without any annoucement.

Yes, 26 is young, but what is sad is kids are starting horrible crimes at 13 and 14 now.  It's shocking the things going on in our world.

Ok really running out for bed.. just popped back in once I heard the Alert....

I hope that they actually do something this time....

Joran is how old?

I shut my T.V. off,  I can't believe Fox just interruped going to commercial, then went to something completely different, like it's unimportant!  None of the other news channels are even talking about it!!  :evil:

I gotta get to bed myself.  I had to check in with my friends real quick, then Kelsey news conf. happened to come on.  But have a grandson to wake up to tomorrow, so I need to get my rest  :D

Good night and sweet dreams friends and welcome back to some old posters returning!

Edwins myspace page
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=139495895

How did you find that so quickly?  :shock:

That fast chat over there that has me dizzy.  Dont know if its real but I dont see how someon could make one so fast.

Now, that looks like the guy in the mall video but the guy posted here earlier today did not look like the one from the mall.

 :evil:

I told yall I am a myspace fanatic

I agree. The RizGriz guy -- or whatever his name was -- didn't look like the one in the surveillance video. The Myspace guy does.

amazing  :shock:

metro doing a flyby here...been watching the Kelsey Smith story today...Godspeed to her and her family...

I have just read where there is an assumption she was stalked because of her myspace page...I do not know if there is any truth to thatt or not but the thought rang true to me that when you put your personal details out on the web you are truly exposed, so my word of caution to everyone and your families is to not reveal any personal information on the web and to be very careful with who you and your family members make contact with.

In the immortal words of the Sargent on Hill Street Blues..."Be careful out there!!"

By the way if you have not noticed CNN sucks!!! Always a day late and a dollar short unless they have need to lambast conservatives in America....

<rant off>

Edwin Hall

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/EdwinHall.jpg)

Did anyone find her myspace? Shellbell?

I looked the perp up on Anywho, Zaba and Intellius. I found one on Intellius that may be him.

http://www.intelius.com/search-summary-out.php?ReportType=1&

Silly me, I didn't save the link to her myspace but it's posted some pages back.  I'll see if I can find it for you.


Here is Kelsey's myspace:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=69247462

tku Klaas.   :cry:

FYI - front page poster ROBERT is going to watch the Jensen show and translate some of it for us.

Hopefully Jensen roughs him up in interview

Quick hi-and-bye post tonight, guys... I am sickened by the news about Kelsey Smith. ANOTHER ONE. AGAIN.

Good to see Shellbell and even Bluekygirl, who needs a different team to root for  :wink: I see Klaasend is a hockey fan.

I see lots of comments tonight about how this case will define many of your attitudes about Holland in the future. I want SO badly to be optimistic about them but I have said it before, I'll say it again... they are where the REAL problem lies. Their cultural support of the drug and porno trade is the overlay for this whole case and all the corruption and coverup. I  think it was Rob earlier who spoke of how this thing really IS big like the conspiracy theorists say. And I definitely count myself in that camp.

Got to hit the bunkey.. headed out of town for a couple of days to nonesuche country and I am hoping I'll have an Internet to reach y'all this weekend. Watch and see, Joran will confess and I'll be out of the loop LOL.

Bump :batman:

Nite SB

Red says you can't rush a "masterpiece", LOLOL

It will be a great post if he gets it done tonight.  Regarding the TES trip to Aruba later this month.

FYI - Red tells me the post will be up first thing in the morning.

Cool!  TY

FTR: I think FP Robert is Freek van der Sloot  :P  > just a guess.

Really?  Hmmm

Goodnight!

Really?  Hmmm

Goodnight![/quote]
Just kidding. Night Klaasend.

Was this the psychic that went to Aruba? and has a show? I thought the episode was to be in April... when will it be on?

I remember it being said that Karen Janssen has prosecuted a case before when there was no body and won. Maybe this time her hands were tied by many "powers" in Aruba.

Concealed weapons.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

too bad that the cheap shot artists, dirty playing ducks won the cup.  Nothing but a bunch of thug punks on that team (except for Selanne and Giguere - they at least have some class)

I think they went to Aruba back in February, but the episode will air June 20th.  From what I have been told by people in Aruba and by the host, Carla Baron, it should be an interesting look at the Natalee Holloway case.

They definitely need some type of loud siren, pepper spray, stun gun, knife, steel toed boots, AK-47......

Watching that fuzzy video, it is hard to understand how that guy did that so quick.  If she had pulled away from him and ran, would he have done anything?

You would think that mall, and particularly Target, would have improved their security.

Posted: Monday, 30 April 2007 4:11AM

Four Dead in Kansas City Mall Shooting

KANSAS CITY, MO (AP)  -- A man driving a dead woman's car shot a police officer, then opened fire in a parking lot and a mall Sunday, authorities said. By the end of the day, four people, including the gunman, were dead.

The chaos ended when police shot the gunman to death outside a Target store inside Ward Parkway Center in south Kansas City, police spokesman Tony Sanders said.

The gunfire sent shoppers and employees scurrying for cover. Target employee Cassie Bradshaw, 19, of Kansas City was in a break room with two other people when they first heard shots. Then, her co-workers saw a man in his 50s with a rifle ``shooting everywhere,'' she said.

``It sounded like maybe firecrackers at first but then they got louder and louder and louder, and it sounded like someone shooting a gun,'' she said.

The string of violence began early Sunday afternoon, when police went to a home to check on an elderly woman relatives hadn't seen for days. The woman was found dead and her car missing, Sanders said.

The car was spotted later in the day at a gas station by an officer, who pulled the driver over and was shot in the arm, police said. The officer, whose wound was not life-threatening, returned fire and shattered the window of the gunman's car.

The car took off and reports began arriving about 10 to 15 minutes later of shots fired at the shopping center. The man pulled into a parking space and fired at the cars on either side of him, killing two people, authorities said. He fired more shots, wounding at least two people, then went inside the mall, Sanders said.

``Everybody was leaving the mall when the officers ran inside,'' Sanders said. ``They confronted the man and after confronting him, shot and killed him.''

Although witnesses reported hearing shots inside the mall, Sanders could not immediately confirm it.

``We have hundreds and hundreds of witnesses we have to interview and try to determine that,'' he said.

Police did not say how the elderly woman died, or if the gunman was a suspect in her death. But they did say they believed the events were connected.

The mall, one of the city's busiest shopping centers, was shut down and officers went through each store to see if anyone else might have been involved, Sanders said. The gunman and victims' names were not immediately released, and conditions of the wounded were not available.

The wounded officer was treated at an area hospital and released, but the conditions of the other wounded people were not available.

Good Morning All...working and lurking today :(

FYI - The mall/area listed above is a different location than the one where Kelsey was abducted. Not that all locations should not beef up security, just wanted to point out the difference.


<lurk mode enabled>

All Little Boys Dinghys Should Be Cut Off At Birth ................

 8)

recently, within the last month or so, there was a story in the local news paper around here.  This punk kid went on a crime spree, robbing liquor stores, car jacking, terrorizing the community.  The punk - along with 3 others - ended up at one of them quarter car washes where you wash your car yourself.  The four punks, one with a gun, one with a baseball bat, approached an older gentleman who was washing his car.  The number 1 punk pulled the gun in an attempt to car-jack him.  The older fellow answered by pulling a 45 out of shoulder holster and dropped the punk dead.  The 3 other punks took off running.  It was a great story.  Bad guy dead, 3 others caught and arrested later.  The good guy gets to live.

You NEVER hear these stories on CNN.  And of course the headline in the paper was something like "teen football player gunned down at local carwash" instead of "man thwarts carjacking criminal punk mofo's killing one, saving his own life and putting end to crime spree"

If this hasn't been answered yet -- I think Viet Vet arrived with "Wednesday's group'.

He mentioned it in one of his first posts.

If I don't see it posted after I 'catch up' -- I will look for it.

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject:    

________________________________________
Posted by Viet Vet just now in the fp area:

Comment 115, you are very correct Mortella, Beth and the first group from Alabama arrived on the Monday, I was with the second group and we arrived on Wednesday at about 11AM.

{snipped}

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

*******************
Hi Peaches...I hear ya!! I lived in Lenexa which is next to OP and shopped at both that Target and Oak Park Mall. Very nice area!! Amazing that that kind of thing can happen there...

The punk thugs are going to continue to take over because their parents dont discipline them, our judicial system does not discipline them, the schools are not allowed to discipline them.  This is the new "entitled generation"  - they have never even been spanked. They are not taught there are consequences to your actions.  They are not taught right from wrong.  They are not punished when they screw up.  

When are people going to learn "time outs" dont work. You have to punish your friggen kids and quit going after the teacher when they try to teach  little Johnny that he cannot just do whatever he wants to little suzie and suffer no consequence.

Until people start teaching these kids responisbility, arm yourself and your kids.  Learn how to defend your self.  More bad guys need to end up dead.

Good morning friends.... :)

Peaches, I just came home from a wedding in Manhattan, KS.....drove through Kansas and marveled at the beautiful countryside....met some great kids at Kansas State University.....would have never believed that a monster could have come out of the area and taken this child.

**************************
Right On Blah...we are now living in Generation ME

The problem is these perpetrators now have more rights than the victims and their families have.  It will not be long before Uncle Sam will be telling us whether or not we can discipline our children.

********************************
I got news for you...they already do...any parent who spanks a child in public can be turned in DFACS and their children taken away from them.

I think part of what aggravates me is that the court sends people to jail but can't find a reason to KEEP them.  The reduced sentence crap is for the birds.  Do the crime, do the time.  Need more jails?  Build them.  Better yet, have the freakin' criminals do it.  Fence 'em in and let them learn a trade.

Please don't let me get started today.

That is the effect and not the cause.

The cause is people are raising criminals.  There are too many criminals walking around and causing over crowding in our prisons.  They are putting a heavy burden on our judicial system.

The real CAUSE of the problem starts at home.  And I agree, the bleeding hearts want the gov to tell people how to discipline our kids.  As if the gov knows how to do anything right.

Not disagreeing with you on either point, Metro.  I realized the two Targets were not synonymous but the corporation and the areas are --- heartland.  

Not disagreeing with you either that parents can be turned in for spanking.   I  meant any form of discipline.  I did not make that clear.

again, this is the EFFECT of bad parenting.  People are not taught responsibility or respect.  

Fix the problem and you eliminate the effect.  Building more prisons, hiring more police and judges is just putting a band-aid on the problem.   We need to enable the schools to dish out discipline, and we need to force parents to do the same.  Punishing the parents for a kids action would be a good way to start.

I hear what you're saying, Blah.  I just don't know the answer.  

Is it too late?

No its not too late.  Not by a long shot.

We tried the "time out" and "count to 3" bullshit and it didnt work.

Time to go back to the old school way of discipline.  We need to move away from this no spanking/entitlement "movement" and start teaching kids a lesson.

Less government involvement in raising our kids and more parenting at home and in schools.  Put the burden our the parents to raise their kids right.  Make them responsible for their own kids and they will make their kids responsible, respectable young adults.

Paris Hilton Escapes From Jail!

But it is legal, because her lawyers cut a deal yesterday for an early release.   :lol:

i'm starting to worry about you and your fascination with this fruitloop buddy  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Well, Blah already hit the nail on the head! I'm not saying Paris is the type of criminal that he is talking about, but just another of the ME generation that grew up w/ "time outs" (or even less). Another "early release", etc. etc. etc.  :evil:

Hey!  This is NEWS! lol

I think her new jailhouse book, just turned into a post card.

I see many of you stayed up for the breaking news on Kelsey's murderer, I did as well. My hope is that since this was the daughter of a police officer that we may see increased legislation as a result. Somehow that this can happen to a child of the police force likely will resonate far more with our lawmakers, at least I hope it may have a similar impact as with Jessica's law. Elizabeth Smart's father was on yesterday begging for us all to write our elected officials per state to lobby for this legislation related to repeat offenders.

I think Tim Miller is coming up on Fox in a few minutes.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/  06/07/2007

How quickly can you become a member of our school board or perhaps the superintendent?  We need you as a teacher advocate.

I agree with you both TOTALLY!

tcumom-

Do you remember the 'whole language' movement in elementary schools in the late 80's? All of the lax discipline reminds me of that, in that whole language got kids off the hook for learning phonics then hooked on phonics emerged and privately made much dough off that gap. I actually paid to have both of my kids tutored in phonics during that period and don't' regret it.

It's just reflective of when our politically correct schools started making exceptions for those kids and families who weren't truly committed to education or homework. Same profile of folks who today aren't committed to discipline either.

Bring an extra Cohiba and I'll bring the 25yr old single malt...
we can sip and burn some of castros' crops to celebrate ;-)

Destiny

Looks like something happened at the Lighthouse area in Aruba last night:

http://www.24ora.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

Busqueda grandi na costanan di Aruba        
Thursday, 07 June 2007  


Diaranson anochi laat pa diahuebs marduga autoridadnan a conduci un busqueda grandi den e area di patras di Alto Vista te Lighthouse. Esaki a wordo hasi pa busca un persona. A wordo usa e helicopter di polis y tambe a stand by unidad di brandweer, materiale wagen y ambulance.

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/jun2007/june%205%20-%20june%2012/busqueda%20front.JPG)




Through Pap translator:

busqueda big at costanan of aruba
thursday, 07 june 2007

diaranson night late for diahuebs marduga autoridadnan owing to conduci one busqueda big in the area of behind alto vista till lighthouse. this owing to wordo make for busca one person. owing to wordo using the helicopter of police y also owing to stand by unidad of brandweer, materiale wagen y ambulance come across

 :wink:  8)

Man arrested in Kansas teenager's death By MARIA SUDEKUM FISHER, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 17 minutes ago



OVERLAND PARK, Kan. - A man seen on surveillance video leaving a store shortly before a teenager was abducted in the parking lot has been arrested, hours after her body was found in a park, authorities said.



Edwin R. Hall, 26, was expected to be charged Thursday morning with premeditated first-degree murder and aggravated kidnapping, Overland Park Police Chief John Douglass said.

Kelsey Smith, 18, had been missing since Saturday night, when she went to a Target store in this Kansas City suburb to buy a gift for her boyfriend.

Surveillance video showed her being forced into her car around 7:10 p.m., and the car drove off. It was found in a nearby mall parking lot about two hours later.

Douglass said Hall appeared to be the same person shown in the video leaving the Target soon after Smith. He was wearing a white T-shirt, sneakers, shorts and a goatee.

"This community has lost a vibrant and promising life and a family has suffered unimaginable tragedy," said Phill Kline, prosecutor for Johnson County, Kan.

Police said Hall's vehicle matched the description of a dark mid-1970s Chevrolet pickup that was seen entering the Target parking lot shortly after Smith's car.

"I want to again express my condolences to the Smith family," Douglass said. "I realize that this is not the preferred conclusion. While we cannot give them their daughter back, we can at least give them justice."

Douglass said police had received more than 500 tips in the case and had questioned numerous people, including Hall, who was arrested at the end of his interview Wednesday.

Douglass said there was no evidence that Hall and Smith knew each other. He declined to offer a motive for the attack or specify whether investigators had determined that Smith was killed in Kansas, where the murder charge was to be filed.

Police found Smith's body in a wooded area near Grandview, Mo., about 20 miles east of the Target store. Authorities did not say how she died.

"As I understand she was found at a wooded area, but I can't say whether she was directly concealed by bushes," Douglass told reporters.

Officers had been searching the lake area since Tuesday after tracing signals from Smith's cell phone. Investigators isolated two signals from an area in south Kansas City, Mo.

Before a memorial service Wednesday evening, Smith's father, Greg Smith, thanked the hundreds of volunteers and everyone else involved in the search for his daughter.

"She could walk into a room full of strangers and walk out with a room full of friends," Smith told the gathering, fighting tears.

"Her excitement and passion for life was unmatched," he said. "She lived more in 18 years than many people do with a great deal more time."

After his daughter's body was found, Kimberly Kincade, 39, was one of only a few people who remained at the makeshift staging area for searchers in the Target parking lot, surrounded by stacks of fliers and cases of water and soda.

"The person who is going to keep us the strongest is Kelsey," Kincade said, fighting tears. "She's up there looking down and saying, 'I know this is bad, and I know that I'm not there with you anymore. I can't hold you, and I can't hug you. But both of my arms are wrapping around you, and I'm there with you.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_re_us/missing_teen_45;_ylt=ArpGWdqXNax1hdJ4cEfDow5kM3wV
_________________

WE need to remember that you can't get a permit to parent,but it should be forced on some.We have laws,we need more prisons,raise the taxes and enforce the laws.Yes,enforce the laws.

this does not seem like a RANDOM act to me


something stinks..

another person involved ..i think  :x

Just popping in while I have Lean Pockets break.

I wanted to comment that we have three and four year old children who are already so violent and out of control that we have to remove them from our classrooms.

Something is very wrong.  :(

Paris Hilton is a free woman.

The hotel heiress formerly known as inmate 9818783 made an early exit from the Century Regional Detention Facility Thursday after serving just three of the 45 days to which she was originally sentenced.

The Los Angeles Sheriff's Department said it would hold a news conference later in the day to discuss the circumstances leading to Hilton's release.

http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=b0c9cf2e-32c0-4476-9a38-5a8f28d269a9

Oh boy, do I remember the various movements in the schools ~ our son was in elementary school in the late 80s, too.  At that time, our district was big on this writing program (blocked the name from my mind) which encouraged writing writing writing ~ with *no* emphasis on spelling, grammar, sentence construction.  :shock:  There was no way I would let our son get away with that, so....he was forced, according to him, to do worksheets, and whatever else, at home.  Well, at least he can write a complete sentence, and sound fairly literate.  That program went by the wayside after about 10 years, and now we're on the read read read bandwagon.  
Last rant ~ parents are furious if our 7th and 8th graders have homework.  God forbid it interfere with skateboarding, cheer practice, video games and so on.  Our district now has a *no homework* policy.  :shock:  :evil:

Sorry for such a long, rambling rant ~ I sure feel better, though.  :wink:

Morning monkeys.  Another day and another life cut short.  I thought when my daughter graduated from high school I would worry less about the things she did and where she went.  After all, she was becoming a responsible adult that would contribute to society and possibly make things better for future generations.  Yet, after everything I have learned from being a monkey for two years I am even more worried and anxious.  The world has gone mad and I have thrown my own child out into the insanity hoping she will survive.  I think she needs karate lessons and a gun now.To heck with the pepper spray!  I want her to be able to totally incapacitate these creeps.

Good morning Monkeys...

I am still so sad over Kelsey.  Such a tragedy.

I think an answer to some of the madness of these types of crimes is tougher punishment.

Sure there is a death penalty in some states, great. But these people sit on death row for years and years.  
I say public hangings, or use some of the old torture techniques such as putting them on the rack and slowly pull them apart. An eye for an eye.

Ya know, I hate feeling this kind of rage.  I just can't understand some people.  And, IF this guy who did this to Kelsey does have an extensive criminal record, will anything be done to keep this from happening again?  

Yep, I say ship repeat offenders off to an island, let them survive anyway they can, and if they can't......Oh well....

 :lol:

unfortunatley, I dont have the patiencs to deal with all the little brats  :lol:  :lol:

Lala's, mine is 16 1/2.  

I am petrified more each day.

We do live in a truly frightening world. The program I work for is designed to help children who are "at risk." We find out a lot of things about the families, and what happens to some of the children at the hands of others is very sad. We have quite a few children who are neglected while their parents are on meth or whatever. We also have many who have been physically or sexually abused. You get to the point where you have to try not to feel too much for them. We had one little girl who was sexually abused by her father, sent to her uncle's home where she was sexually abused by her teenage cousin, and sent to foster care where she was sexually abused by her foster father. She was only four years old. :(

When did people get the idea that children were there for them to abuse in whatever way they chose?

Isn't that soooo sad???  AND  who's fault is it?  The childs?  No.  The child doesn't know any better.  It is the parents fault.  No discipline, some spend no time with the kids, the kids are sat in front of a TV to keep from bothering the parents.  They are witness to violence and bad behavior in their own homes or so crave attention that they will do anything to get that attention.  

I agree - Something is very very wrong.

Translation:

The KPLD informed the ALE that they wer going to search the lighthouse area tomorrow for any clues in the disappearnce of Natalee Holloway.  As you can see now, the ALE are on the scene to move the body yet again.

I heard she threw a hissy fit so they let her go.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Blah - you are on a roll this morning.  Thanks for the laugh...I needed it.

Oh, I thought it was 'cause she was cold, and didn't have a pillow.  boohoo. :roll:  :roll:

blah is going to get you for that one!!!!!   :shock:

Mine has a myspace and facebook page too.  I am always fussing about it with her.  Seems the only thing we ever truly fight over.  I worry about her safety.  She's naive to a world of evil.  That's what happens when you grow up in a small town where you know everybody and can walk the streets after midnight safely.  I may have failed her on that point, she simply can't understand about the average joe being just as dangerous as the creepy looking dude on the corner.

GREAT STORY!!!!

"It's from the Boston Globe. "Shortly before landing, Bob Hayden and a flight attendant had agreed on a signal: When she waved the plastic handcuffs, he would discreetly leave his seat and restrain an unruly passenger who had frightened some of the 150 people on board a Minneapolis-to-Boston flight Saturday night with erratic behavior. Hayden, a 65-year-old former police commander, had enlisted a gray-haired gentleman sitting next to him to assist. The man turned out to be a former US Marine. 'I had looked around the plane for help, and all the younger guys had averted their eyes. When I asked the guy next to me if he was up to it, all he said was, "Retired captain. USMC." I said, "You'll do,"' Hayden recalled. 'So, basically, a couple of grandfathers took care of the situation.' The incident on Northwest Airlines Flight 720 ended peacefully, but not before Hayden, a former Boston police deputy superintendent and former Lawrence police chief, and the retired Marine had handcuffed one man and stood guard over another until the plane touched down safely at Logan International Airport around 7:50 p.m. State Police troopers escorted two men off the flight. Trooper Thomas Murphy, a State Police spokesman, said one of the men was transported to Massachusetts General Hospital for 'an unspecified medical issue, possibly mental health.'"

Now, here's the best part of the story. "Hayden's wife of 42 years, Katie, who was also on the flight, was less impressed. Even as her husband struggled with the agitated passenger, she barely looked up from 'The Richest Man in Babylon,' the book she was reading. 'The woman sitting in front of us was very upset and asked me how I could just sit there reading,' Katie Hayden said. 'Bob's been shot at. He's been stabbed. He's taken knives away. He knows how to handle those situations. I figured he would go up there and step on somebody's neck, and that would be the end of it. I knew how that situation would end. I didn't know how the book would end.'"

Naw...but I thought I heard something about not letting her wear her hair extensions was considered cruel and in human punishment.

Outstanding!!  I love this story.  Sad to think that in a few years we may not be able to find good guys like these.

Mine does myspace but it is set to private.  I perused it the other day.  I guess private keeps out most of the creeps.

hehe,I have no answers,because no one will do what is needed.Just talk,and please little boys things alone.I canät laugh that

Blah, I think there will always be good guys out there.  

One time somebody was mean to me (on the phone no less) and made me cry (must have been a helluva conversation).  

I told DH who called the offending party and advised them in no certain terms that "if you EVER make my wife cry again, I will come over, rip off your head and shit down your neck."  

There will always be good guys.  I know.  I got mine.

Blah,leave them things alone.I didn't know there was a major golf course in aruba.Add shows it,6400 yards.

Peaches,that works,but sometimes they call lawyers and police,I found out.I taped the calls after that and they quit,quickly

I am leaving now

Gotta run.  Doctor's appt.

BBL

I'm really tired of Paris Hilton's face. She's ugly. Take a long narrow pointy face, apply lots of money, tilt head and look pouty = ugh. She's ugh-ly.  :x

Lala's have daughter call my son for it appears Saban's new Wednesday workouts are karate???? As son says it's called "karatay" in their lingo  :roll:

I expect she could run circles around those guys  :lol:

I agree Lalas...I am so sad about Kelsey's death. It's so scary to think that something so horrible can happen to someone innocently running errands. I'm about to become a mother in January, and while there is so much to worry and think about during pregnancy, I'm starting to realize that a mother's worries are just beginning when her child is born. My heart breaks for Kelsey's family.

http://www.kansascity.com/132/story/138680.html

Hi! BlueKY!  Welcome back..I saw you posted last night, Glad to have you back.  Congrats on the baby!  I know you are excited.  

I agree with you - what happened to Kelsey is especially frightening because it all happened so fast, in broad daylight.  Another bright light snuffed out.

msmarple ~ have you by chance heard anything from Sunfreak?  I hope she's okay.

She'd rather your son just hang around and protect her from the big mean guys. LOL

If Red is in charge does that mean he can get answers for me as fast as Klaas does or will I have to wait until she gets back?  :roll:

Looks as if I will have to wait.  :roll:  :roll:

 :lol:  :lol:

SunFreak was to go for two tests yesterday and get results Friday (tomorrow). I spoke to her several days ago; she sounded fairly upbeat. I think her sister will be going with her for Friday's appointment.

Thanks so much for the reply.

I'm posting the link below for that delicious robots:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6729745.stm

Don't you mean the cheater :lol:

Yes, but he's a delicious cheater.  :lol:  :lol:

He's a cheater but he is our cheater and we wouldn't take him any other way :lol:

Absolutely! We love every cheating inch of that robot!  :wink:

I have written Robots up in my books so many times he has more pages than Snoop Dawg. :lol:

Well, I was going to talk a little Simian today, but I guess since Klaas isn't here to assist me in my efforts I will wait until later.  I know why Red is the administrator and not the moderator, now.  You don't think he heard me do you?

He's a cheater, but he admits he's a cheater, so you gotta wub him.  8)

Nah. I think if you type in camo color like our delicious robots does that the Big Guy won't know what you're saying. :wink:

i have only cheated at jumping pages,Robots taught me how.

Tiger - did you read that link I posted for robots? It's about a robot "teddy bear" that is designed to rescue wounded soldiers.

All my pages on Robots is camo colored.. Seems when I write his name it just appears that way.  He's a magical Robots.

If anyone is here when Klaas returns, please ask her if this is the original Simian.  Thanks.


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
born 2 be wild: The Simian use a Mac.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The battle is coming

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The end is near and bodies are washing upon the shore……………

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:05 pm
Don’t try and hack the Simian. We smoke Nederweed. Genetically enigineered.

No battle. The man on the inside will call soon. The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall.

I’m leaving now.

Oh. One more question before I go...if it isn't Gabe...then...


WHO IS SHANGO??? :shock:

LE

How does Charles Croes identity as a clairvoyant fit in with Shango's description?   And we know SandraK would have educated him on the use of anonymizers to account for any Florida IP.

.

 :wink:

Are you asking me?  I was thinking of CC as someone else many of us have read along the way.

Maybe I should clarify that last statement with this...how do we know that Charles Croes is REALLY clairvoyant?

I was referring to statements like seeing with the eyes of the gods and from afar, some of the claims of mysticism that Shango made being consistent with Croes claims of being clairvoyant.

Just a thought. . .

.

That latest picture of Edwin Hall would scare the sheet off a ghost!   :shock:

where'd you see it?

And he taught you well :lol:

look here

http://www.foxnews.com/

Anna
You have a valid point there.  Some have thought that was  a reference to listening capabilities such as Echelon and such.  Your idea is just as noteworthy as any.  I will ponder that some more.

Gabe indicated to us that Charles was known as a clairvoyant.  I don't think that came our of nowhere...somewhere along the way that possibility was established long before this case.

OMG :shock: This guy is a monster.

It's all in the eyes...think Scott Peterson....etc.

Think Joran also

I agree Lala's.

Yes, Joran also.  Did anyone see the resemblance of this guy walking into Target and Joran walking into the casino.  The both have the same walk.

Yes,BT.It was a good thing that is being done.Funny Sociopaths have a certain style,evil,not treatable.

Hi Monkeys,
Just checking in to see if there is anything new going on. Yes that guy is scary looking. I would like  to see his rap sheet if he is the same one thay were saying had a long criminal history.

I wonder how many women behind bars are complaining about having a rash today......   :roll:

Yes stalking and searching someone out.. Joran is a creep

They let Paris go home.

 :lol:

I can't tell if the Fox News pix is a photo or a drawing.

ewwww.  that pic just creeps me out.  nightmares tonight.

I'm thinking it's a drawing, not a photo. Look at the nostrils and mouth. It's a mouth from a how-to-draw mouths manual, IMHO.

Good grief ~ read below:

Neighbors "Stunned" by Hall's Arrest in Smith Murder
Posted: 11:28 AM Jun 7, 2007
Last Updated: 11:28 AM Jun 7, 2007
OLATHE, Kan. (AP) _ Neighbors of the man now charged with kidnapping and killing Kelsey Smith are stunned that the man they know could have committed such a crime.

Twenty-six-year-old Edwin Hall is due in Johnson County District Court this afternoon for arraignment on charges of first-degree murder and aggravated kidnapping.

But neighbors say Hall, his wife and their four-year-old son were not trouble-makers. A former neighbor of the Halls in Kansas City says they were "a nice young family.'' At their current home in Olathe, Cameron Migues says his next door neighbor seemed like a nice, normal guy.

Migues says his three children often played with Hall's boy, adding that he thinks Hall had worked in restaurants in the past and was now employed at a warehouse.

The Edwin Hall photo on Fox is a drawing IMO.

If my daughter were in jail for DUI, and I saw Paris tripping out of jail after having benefit of a personal Psychiatrist with mere jewelry on her ankle, I'd be livid. Scratch, honey, scratch!  :evil:

i'm going with photo - I think its a photo

Didn't he have a scraggly gotee in the video where he was coming out of Target?

I swear I thought I saw a still of that video and I didn't notice the facial hair.

I agree.

I hate to see his face right next to hers....he is an evil person...next to an
angel....IMO

just showed up on msnbc website with a blurb saying it's his booking photo.  psycho.

That's a weird picture whatever it is. The face looks like a photo and the coller and neck looks drawn in to me.

In that case, his eyes really are creepy, not just an artist's rendition.  Very bad.

I'm reposting this - I try to do this every day on the LCD. For one thing, there's a link to the hotel, for directions etc.

Posted by Richard on the front page of SM 5/23/07:




If you’re interested, go to:
SM ATA Travel Show thread, page 6 (scroll down) -
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1003&start=100

Hilton Neworleans – Riverside – web site:
http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hotel/MSYNHHH-Hilton-New-Orleans-Riverside-Louisiana/index.do
Two Poydras Street, New Orleans, Louisiana
Tel: 1-504-561-0500
The hotel faces the Mississippi River and is “right at” the French Quarter.

***

Per Richard, a condo is available June 27 - June 29.

Per Vicki, a few people from BFN are going (two females that I know of). The signs from the Miami show are available.

Donations ($$) also are appreciated, for the cost of flyers, permit fee, maybe parking etc. (not travel/lodging).

This site has the same picture but slightly different coloring. Well, he looks gray/yellow instead of green/yellow.

http://www.kansascity.com/

Supposed to be a hearing at 1:30 today - I am guessing that's Kansas time.

Meant to mention that at the link I just posted, if you click on "The Search for Kelsey Smith", there are several photos of Tim Miller in action.

I did! I did!

His eyes look vacant, but his mouth somehow looks very evil also. Something about the way it is set. I thought he looked evil on that video surveilance. Yikes!

it looks like they have him in a straight jacket

If you click on the link msmarples posted there is a video posted of his neighbor who actually reported him post seeing the surveillance photo.

There is something vacant and cold about his eyes, I think Joran also has that feature, his eyes look to always have this same level stare about them. It's freakish.

Blah ~ I think you're right. I was wondering what kind of shirt he had on.

None ~ I saw that video. I would have preferred to hear the neighbor say he was strange and creepy. I guess none of us want to think that we couldn't tell he was a monster.

Watching that video of the guy running and shoving Kelsey in the car, made me think of Natalee. The just over 2 hours time frame also made me think about her. They may have not done the shove-in-the-car, but it was similar.

This is a followup to some discussion yesterday. This is a translation of the Benvinda (Vinda) de Sousa letter. The letter was part of the NY case filings. I made comments in blue. Also added some bold face.

Leslie posted this Feb. 14, 2007, 3:56 pm, LCD 582.



Now, this is STILL not what I am really looking for, which is either the actual letter, or summary of contents of it - that Karen Janssen sent to the court re. the PVDS lawsuit/award money - the one that was turned down on or about Feb. 14.

That is where, among other things, we heard that apparently PVDS picked up Joran AND Natalee at 4:00 near McDonalds. That also references witness statements (plural) from (two?) people who heard PVDS say "4:00 a.m." (not "11 p.m.").

***
Also I'm reposting this; this is from the October meeting Q&A session.

I agree, Natalee was targeted just as Kelsey was. The three amigos just had a little help from some kind of additive to her drink, for of course we now know from Joran's lips that she wasn't drunk !  :roll:

This is exactly why these perps did it...Statistically thinking
a victim is killed within 3 hours of abduction Joran was only one with
Natalee after the time she left the bar with them, well there is nothing to prove that she was with anyone else and Jorans times line as we all know doesnt fly at all

He just looks like an average young guy in the new video.

He does look pretty normal in the one picture of him that Klaasend posted last night...but he looks like a freak in that mug shot.

Is it me or does he not fit the profile of a killer? I usually think of sex offenders being loner types. Joran seems like a different type of predator, preying on girls with a band of friends. But it seems extra bizarre that a married father of a 3-year-old has done this. I guess that's part of what makes it so scary.

A little earlier Fox had video of him walking in to be booked and he really looked very normal.  Kind of stone faced, but normal.

I don't think it is typical for young married guys, but there have been cases of married guys with children leading a double life.  I would like to know what else that have on the guy besides the video.  If they have dna evidence it is all over except for the zap.

I wonder if Phil Spector would be open to the idea of giving me his house and money since they are going to lock his arse up and throw away the key?   8)

Easy, I caught that video right after you posted...I agree that he did look like a regular guy...but that mug shot is ugh!

MsMarple,

Did you see the front page posts by Gabe Leo verifying that Charles Croes thinks he is clairvoyant and that it creeped out the kids riding in the car with him, etc.?

Apparently, no mistranslation as we had originally thought might be possible.  While I doubt if he actually introduces himself as that, he does seemingly make that claim.  I doubt Beth or Jug knew that little tid bit about him for some time.

He is one odd person.

.

Oh yeah!  When I first saw that mug shot I thought holy moly what a classic looking psyco!  But, in the video he just looks like a young guy that knows he is in deep chit.

Well, we all have our lucid moments I suppose.

.

I still think the whole "clairvoyant" think is a mis-hearing or mis-translation.

I have emailed arubagirl, having noticed that she translated the Benvinda (Vinda) de Sousa letter, which says "clairvoyant."

Multiple people may have made the same mistake.

On the other hand, CC may indeed fancy himself a clairvoyant/psychic.

Somehow I just think that if he had introduced himself with THAT as a credential, Jug would have told him to take a hike. And probably ALE too.

Lala's.
I don't much believe in clairvoyants or psychics so I don't think anybody is REALLY clairvoyant.  I do think some people think they are.  And some are even able to convince others that they are but I have never seen any proof of it myself.

 :wink:

Speaking of clairvoyants, I’ve been yakin’ back and forth with Carla Baron most of the morning trying to do a piece about her upcoming show about Natalee Holloway.  She is so nervous about breaking her agreement with CTV that my piece lost a lot of its sting by the time I published it to my blog.  If anyone is interested, go visit and ask her some questions in the comment section.  I will try to get her to answer what she can.

 :shock:  :shock:  Huh??????   :lol:  :lol:

Howdy everybody

He wasn't contacted for his clairvoyance but rather his cell phone company.  I doubt he brought up the supernatural abilities on initial contact.  People who make those claims probably learn pretty quickly that it is best to not start off on that basis or even mention that fact except when it is advantageous to do so.  This may be a hidden talent that only the other locals know about with Croes and is not likely something he advertises.

He was sitting in Dennis Jacob's office one day when Dave H went to the police station, wasn't he?  Right there could be a source for his special knowledge of lots of things.

Does anyone have the latest post by VietVet made within the last couple of days?  Does he mention Croes extraordinary powers, alleged?  Might be another source for it.

.

.

It does seem odd. On the other hand, a profile is just a statistical probability; there ARE other statistics.

Dennis Radner - BTK killer (also Kansas?  :shock:  ) - married with at least two children. Scout leader, church President ...

Great piece, Easy.  Can I send you something via Klaas?  It's really nothing, but could be something. :lol:

MsMarple,
These are the kids who were in the car wtih Croes and know him personally.  They are not translating anything.  They find him very creepy because he claims to have these powers.  Nothing for them to translate as they all speak the same language.

.

I set up an email for the blog that can be found in the upper right.  Why not just send it to me through that one.

Of course, I should have said, "May I send you something?"  I am pretty sure I "can" as long as my computer is working in conjunction with my fingers.  I have sent it to Klaas.  Again, thank you for all you do.  It takes work, a great deal of tenacity and certainly desire to see justice for Natalee as well as those many others lost in the abyss or sea, sand or lost to the hands of evildoers.

It's a done deal.  I need some more glasses.   :lol:   I cannot see the obvious but look for the obscure. :wink:

Would that be Jude the Obscure?   :lol:

Sorry, I have been out in the sun too long today.  Will go back and complete the frying of what is left of my brain . . . . . :D

Just doing a "run through".. refuse to say "run buy" aka killing on the streets for did live in LA and now live surrounded by LA. Run bys are in daylight too by the way.

They had some packing on the VA Tech campus until the the campus decided to be a "gun free" area... sounds like the ACLU was probably, in on it too... anyway it became a gun free campus.. IMO This really means the good guys 0 and the bad guys can do the shooting.

You cannot combat evil with a toothpick and a cell phone and a cup of Starbucks (I can't even afford that!!!)

Bye, see you later. Need to the agenda, print stuff for my last meeting as President of a local American Legion Auxiliary Unit.. 4 yrs out of last 5 as Pres. (one year "break) The ending for me is bitter sweet.

if he was REALLY clairvyant, why would he pay some kids $100 to show him where van der sloot lives?  Wouldnt he just know?


 :lol:  :lol:

REAL :wink:

Ya think?

 :lol:

oh boy, i could really go to work with this comment....


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Hall-appearance_290px.jpg)

In some languages the translation "prediction" can be translated into "clairvoyant/psychic" IMO Charlie Croes made a big predication that night with at Paulus/Joran van der Sloots home in front of Beth and family.

From what I have read here on the blog, IMO I see no way from any of his  writings is a clairvoyant/psychic. I was friends of a well published clairvoyant and mentored by her (never followed up on it).. In no way, IMO is Croes a clairvoyant/psychic. He may be a sensitive though. ie: can sense what will happen.

What we know now of all the elitism, corruption, cronyism, cover up, any of us could have predicted, if we had known this when this went down, living on the island, being in the ins and outs of powers as Charlie Croes would be, any of us could have predicted the implications of Natalee's death.

Aruba, MEP, cover up people, wake up and smell the roses and take the thorns too.

I, too, as many have on this board heard a lot of talk since the 2 yrs anniv. of her death of new people paying attention to the case and Aruba, who didn't pay attention to the case before are now and are having a new "heads up" traveling or even supporting in anyway Aruba in the future.

Tourism will go down even more. I feel sorry and I hurt for those that aren't part of the power there and elites but will suffer of loss of jobs, and a downward quality of life there.

Ah, another Thomas Hardy fan.  Believe it or not, I have a beautiful yellow rose named for Jude the Obscure, smells like pink grapefruit (an English shrub).  :lol:

Easy Last night I wrote an answer to your "what happened to her in the parking lot" Did she have any indication what was going down as it was happening. Did she fight as he sped off? could she have crawled over and tried to fall out of the car.. a chance of death but a choice him killing you or you trying at the odds of surviving "thowing" yourself out of a moving car.

I wrote what had happened to me in the National airport's parking lot 1969. Don't think I have ever delved on it like last night. In fact I have never really thought about it until but last night, for the first time I relived it. i could actually feel his physical actions to me and what I did in return....It must be one of the things that have contributed by my PTSD.

I was going to post it and will tonight, my ramblings when writing it. If I can find the txt copy before I leave, I will post it here.

I would like to read it IBE.  Not sure if the LCD is the place, but Kelsey's case has held all of our attention the past few days.  Maybe Klaas will guide you on that one, but I would love to read your thoughts.  I don't know what the answer is, but once a person is trapped in a vehicle their chances of surviving drops dramatically.  If it were me, I think the fight would be on in the parking lot.  I would rather my family find my body on the spot than to find me months or years later in some isolated spot in the woods.

Earlier Geraldo made a good point.  He was letting predators know that with cameras and cell phone towers every where that people that try to do this thing in this day and age WILL be caught.

is there any monkey radio tonight?

Easy... and all.... I am so upset too.

I have always wondered in states, say like TX where you can "pack" are crimes like this down or what?

I saw the enhanced tape at Target again and the attacker, evil one, coming up, I think, behind her... she was, IMO, not aware of what hit her until already pushed into the car and he's speeding away in her car.

Her dad and mom said they had had gone over things with their daughters of what might happen (what ifs, my Mom (IBE) would call them)

and she (Kelsey) would fight.. IMO she didn't have a chance to fight, I think, if at all, for he had hit her hard enough into the car and was speeding on as she was probably still on her stomach or back with the air knocked out. When I saw a map on TV I had a gut feeling he would go across the State line east.

He's probably sitting on top of her legs or feet under him on the  driver's side, until he was speeding out.. I think he had to be holding her down someway or gave her a knock out smelling thing or knocked her air out of her when he pushed her in... for if she was able, to crawl over to the door.. based on the type of parents and her father being a policeman, she would have tried to squirm over and get the door open, unless the car had one of those locks at the driver's side where she couldn't unlock the passinger's side and I wonder if her car had a seat that went all the way across like a truck vs. bucket seats


((Easy, I wrote this below and left all the ramblings there, unedited, for learned a lot tonight by writing this and think the ramblings will show how my mind worked to try to remember this...I have never remembered the heaviness of his pull until now. I don't think I even remembered it or re=felt his full grip until tonight. (might be one of the many things I have done or not dealt with to have PTSD.. well earned in my life. ))

[b](( Being on this thread for Natalee I have learned a lot from the Monkeys and now understand the "behind the scenes actions" of an attacker, of me [/b]and what happened. I have only thought of this, maybe 2 times max in the 38 yrs since it happened )) I have learned from this blog how important the steps of actions and timing have let up to the hurting/death, IMO of Natalee.

Her mom, Beth, is now spreading knowledge of "what ifs" that can help young travelers (and older) to survive in a much smarter way or at least, IMO, not going down without a struggle. Beth, THANK YOU!  I am sorry you and Natalee's family have to continue to suffer through this without much help from those whose human dignity should have come to help Natalee before now and not the coverup.

Kelsy's kidnapping and reading of her death here tonight had me starting to write, the things below. I thought of editing it or not even posting it.

I had something happen where I could have ended up like Kelsey when I was getting into my car .. but IMO her attacker came up behind her and probably pushed her across the front seat.. don't think her car had bucket seats. I think her car was what we'd consider, now, an older one. I have a gut feeling she was being targeted/watched, for in hindsight I must have been too. I

Anyway, our "tank"  had bucket seats but someone still could have pushed me across the drivers seat.

I was at the National Airport well lite parking lot. Jan, 1969. I had missed my AF Officer husband (now ex but he's still a good guy).. bless him.. ... the only thing that saved me was we had a 1959 Thunderbird, we nicknamed it the "tank"... plus Easy, I think it was the "What ifs" my mom and I used to play "what if"as I was learning to drive.  I writing wonder if something had happened to her that she never told me or was just ahead of the times in thinking of evil.

 the bottom line was if I was going to be hurt or killed,  I was to fight and he was going to be not in as good of shape at the end of it

Like driving alone at night and coming up to a stop light, no cars around or even cars near, go slowly to it... keep the car moving.. these are things now are talked about for safety on the street.. but wasn't really a topic of family conversations say when I was first driving in 1956.

The "what ifs" my mom and used to talk about... kicked in 13 yrs later..., just like when in a real school fire and all the fire drill stuff you have done in practice clicks in, what you do as the person in charge of your students and yourself.

anyway  as he tried to pull me out of the car... what mom and I had discussed in the what ifs had to be "kicking in" automatically although I now I still could feel his big hand and arm over the front of me, around me pulling me, around over the  breasts trying to pull me out. The "what ifs" helped me but I think the timing,  for by the time he made his move to grab me, at the same time I just put the column shift (manual) the car in reverse, backing up out of the parking space while he's tried this. (It was an odd Thunderbird.. steering column manual shift. I am guessing it how power steering tho.. my 1956 Ford had it) Kelsy and Natalee had to have to be hit or in maybe Natalee's case drugged and hit.. I think my perps timing was off or he thought he could pull me out. I don't think, the way it came down he realized I had had it in reverse.. I now think he probably thought I had my hands up on the wheel and thinking I had stick shift on the floor like some of the models..
 
I dragged the man for at least awhile and wasn't really looking at him... I was on the roll not to stop. I do remember seeing him still being dragged alongside  the corner of my eyes as I was in focus on forward... He was stilling hanging on as I was in motion. He finally let go. I know I didn't run over him (I don't think so, for I didn't hear or feel a bump, so he didn't fall under... I just know by the time I got to end of the parking drive (whatever you call it between cars, parked) and I had to make a left turn to go to the parking shed where you paid.. I just remember the door shutting (it was a heavy door) just as I was or right after I made the left turn..

Guessing compared to the MPH rule in our complex (15mph) I was going a tad faster.

feet until he let go of me (car door still open as he was trying to pull me out with one and and open). I was very lucky.. a man of the same description (white, blue wind breaker)  they were looking for according to the FBI for a murder of a stewardess in the farther back area of the parking lot the night before.

Maybe they got him because after he had been drug (dragged ??) by handing onto me and the rest of his body was being hit by a very heavy old Thunderbird door and his legs and feet were on the ground When he let go of me,  the door shut. (the car door, by the way wasn't locked.. broken.. something my husband was to fix that weekend)

(by the way.. I was not in a good mood when I went to my car, for somehow I thought I had missed my husband's plane, I couldn't find him.. found out later he came in on the plane before and took a taxi to our home in Alexandria where we lived to surprise me// (ah love at the time) 1st Lt. AF

 so I know when came to my car.. I do remember I wasn't happy this man was bothering me...  he never took action until I had just raised my voice at the end of giving him directions for the second time and I was already in the car when he came up to the door.  I remember rolling the window down about an inch.. (no electric windows.. guess it was a modified 1959 TBird;( husband went out once to buy car wax and came home with this car)

I haven't thought about this for years and had never remembered until now how hard he had pulled me.

OH.. as I write this comes back... he had come to me while I was walking to my car and asked directions to the Lincoln Memorial and I kept walking but told him. No I stopped and pointed out  toward the direction of the Lincoln Memorial the directions of how to get there.

He then approached me at the car. I rolled the window down about an inch and repeated the directions.. I remember at this time I put some impatience into my voice at the end of the directions..told him I really had to go (did that set him off or did he plan the attack in the beginning)    as put the car in reverse (gear shift on the column, very unusual combo of big TBird at the time)

As I let the clutch out to back, he must have seen the door not locked.. he pulled open the car door and grabbed me to pull me out. I was in ( seat safety belt, option co. added on or you could put them in yourself, tho not shoulder belts thought of  in those years).

When I got the to the parking shed where you pay... I had the parking ticket in my teeth.. I don't remember how got it there.. oh my hands started to shake after I dragged him.. anyway the check out shed had no phone so they told me it was Federal Property and I had to drive to the next shed and to get there I'd have to drive in the gutter area, against traffic and if you have been to National this was along 3-4 lanes coming towards me. So I did it and reported what had happened to me when the FBI came there to me in that other pay shed. (Got free parking, tho, that night)

funny... no one ever came to me after that for a description or a followup.

A few weeks later he finished his 4 yrs that had org. been planned to be over 20 yrs.++++ in the time of Viet Nam.
He got out of the AF (a career planning AF Officer who didn't like us loosing in VietNam and the politicians/Congress, Pres and McNamera )sp) running the war when the military should have. He also was, as part of job, in the know of all the ends and that Pres. Johnson could have ended the war, but didn't) My ex was and still is "into" research, contracts and grants. Left AF and became a big wig in the academic areas.

Monkeys, sorry to be so long. Wanted to share.

Yes!!!
It is a proven fact!!!

Lots of statistics out there that show this too.

Easy and Klaas I was looking for last night's written thoughts and didn't get back here in time to see the message of other areas to post it. it's already posted, sorry :oops:

But I feel a Hell of a lot better because of writing it!!! Wow how many years that has been hidden in the back of my psychic and soul!!!!

I had some add things happen when mom sent me to New Mexico to get my head together while going through a divorce ... get with friends who were down to earth, smiled, sang, go fishing, dancing et al. a life threatening thing happened there too....

When I came back and was once in the outdoor (I never try to shop at stores with enclosed parking) parking lot of Century City Hotel. I had parked my car (a Scout.. he got the TBird int he divorce... I got the dog and camping stuff and 3 mortages on the house with no job)

I had gotten out and two black men in suits started to me... it was day light, no one was near me even tho lots of parked cars..I remember shooting the thought out of my eyes "Don't you even think about it"

Well, I am not sure they were... but the turned around and took another path. I didn't stay around to see which path they took.. I didn't run for that would be a signal.

Being in the Auxiliary District from Southgate to Culver City we have a lot of blacks.. volunteering and are my friends. Sometimes we talk of race relations in the 50, 60, and now  

I found I do something as a white person that they are very aware of as being Black... if I am stopped at a light and a black person (a man) is in the crosswalk I look  to see if my door is locked.

They say, even as well dressed, well educated, professions (those ladies) when crossing with their well educated, well dressed, professional husbands, whites still do that. But also said that since they have been in Los Angeles, they find themselves doing it with other Blacks and Mexicans at the cross walk... they do it less, since they have those cars that now have electrical locks.

I had to email one of them to ask what a "hoag" was.. I thought it was a hospital in Newport Beech ca... during the IMUS thing.. the real word was "ho". Boy am I naive in some areas. I want to keep it that way!! :lol:  :lol:  :roll:

I'm glad you were ok and that you were able to dish some justice out to the POS that tried to abduct you - way to go!!!


I bet he never tried it again!

Blah I didn't know that, wow going to research that now.

IBE, my daughter was attacked while jogging on her college campus at 9pm. He came up to ask her for money, she didn't hear him approaching because she had her walkman on and ear phones in. He tackled her when she slowed down, they went to the ground and she started kicking and yes kicked him in the you-know. He took her shirt with him along with her walkman and she left them both and just ran to the nearest dorm. Ultimately he was caught months later after raping several other students, one he left tied to her sink in her apartment naked and she wasn't found for 48 hours.  :(

I hate to advocate carrying guns but if something doesn't change and soon I fear it may be the only alternative unfortunately. We do both have the key rings with pepper spray but if someone is knocking you to the ground or into a car it is so fast I'm unsure if that would help in any way.

I saw this in the guestbook at the site msmarples posted for Kelsey, I'd never seen this before but thought it was a sweet remembrance. I also noticed there were several posts by parents who had lost daughters to violent acts too.

Here's the poem:
In My Pocket

I have memories in my pocket.
They rattle among the change.

My memories of you are treasures I carry wherever I go.

They are stored in bits and pieces, parts of a beautiful whole
They give me comfort when I think I am alone.

Yes, I have memories in my pocket, like so much other stuff I keep there.

But of all the treasures I have, it’s the memories of you that are the most precious

I made a mistake in the last post... these ladies live and grew up in Compton, Inner City LA, Crenshaw and still live there.. I laugh and tease them I probably was some of their 6th grade sub teacher way back in the early 70's when I took over the house with 3 mortgages and had to find something quick to do to pay the bills.

There is discrimination, I have found, in every race both within and outward.

Gads, I have to stop this. I have a meeting to preside over in less than 3r hrs. Don't want to go... Want to stay here (baby rant, heh heh.)

Not that I know of

msmarple, i am not sure a KJ letter was actually released. Initial reports about the reason for Paulus losing this lawsuit were all over the map but when the smoke cleared the most informative piece done was by RED on the FP, which can be found under the Paulus section. An article which includes a Diario trans and references Paulus' multiple contacts with Natalee and the wiretaps.

igsigs have we ever seen a letter released by KJansen throughout? I don't recall ever having seen one.

Thanks for sharing IBE!  You were lucky and it is good you did keep your wits about you.  I don't know what happened with Kelsey.  It looks like it happened so very fast.  Maybe we will learn more.  This has become a sad world because of things like this.

Posted by Moonshadows at FOB:   :wink:

Just to pre-empt the inevitable monkkkey spin, so when June 10th comes and there is no news...don't read too much into it.

As previously reported, the 'automatic 2 year trigger'  has been exempted due to the high profile of this case.  In other words, it wouldn't have required the attorney's to petition the court.  It would have been 'automatic.'

However, the attorneys for J2K have petitioned the court to release them from suspect status.

They are all waiting to see what is happening these next weeks.  A  judge could rule anytime after the 10th of June or could wait until the summer court recess ends.

Because a  recess of the Court take place during the summer, things could heat up during August, September. It is not very believable that they can stretch this further than three more months.

Hi none. I don't remember either, but i would love to see the one she sent to  :arrow: Carlo.

I do remember a reference to a prosecution letter/evidence (in the 1st instance) being introduced in the Paulus hearing, though, and that may be what msmarple is talking about.

Any word on Joran's invervew with Jensen?

Joran is doing more interviews still???

Thats great, keep talking numnuts !!!

okay that makes sense and I agree the one to Carlo is the keeper  :lol:

did ya'll know they have all kinds of dance video on youtube, San and I are laughing at the funky chicken rufus thomas one  :lol:

Didnt we see one (or at least a partial letter) she released to the FBI or whoever when she quesioned whether Beth was related to Hitler?

There is a choke hold that a perpetrator (or even a good guy can use) that "paralyzes" the victim and if this is a practiced technique by this person, he could have used it on her right away, thus enabling her.  She would lose consciousness very quickly and be unable to put up any kind of fight.  If a person is completely caught off guard, this is a way to stop them instantaneously.  Now I read too many mystery books.  Gotta stop that.

Hey you Alabamians!

Did I just hear somewhere that one of your senators punched another one of your senators in the face today?????

Is this true???????

 :lol:

If its true, can we borrow him for a day or 2?  Theres a couple senators and a governor that needs a good whoopin in this state !!!!!!


 :lol:  :lol:

He was supposed to be on Jensen today (tonight).  The program should have aired by now I'd think.  I agree..the more he talks the further hole he digs.

My guess would be, if these were state senators, of which I have heard nothing, Joe Reed would be involved and now comes the wrath of Tiger sating the "to Kill a Mocking Bird"  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  that Joe is a "protected class" and must not be discussed in public.  I have no idea who it was, but he is usually at the center of any problems in the state.

Punch flies on Senate floor
Posted by Birmingham News staff June 07, 2007 3:24 PM
MONTGOMERY -- State Sen. Charles Bishop hit Sen. Lowell Barron on the floor of the Senate this afternoon.

The Senate was in recess when Bishop, a Republican from Arley, and Barron, a Democrat from Fyffe, started an animated conversation. Bishop suddenly hit Barron in the face, and Barron fell back onto a desk.

Patrick Harris, assistant secretary of the Senate, said he saw Bishop hit Barron and quickly grabbed Bishop and pulled him back.

Bishop in an interview later said Barron called him a s...o...b, so he hit Barron in the face.

"If he calls me that again, it'll happen again," Bishop said.

Barron was not immediately available for comment.

David White

For more details, read tomorrow's Birmingham News.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Too funny

I hadn't seen until now for sure that it was TES that found Kelsey's body:

(snipped)
Members of a Texas-based search team found Smith's corpse across state lines near Grandview, Mo., on Wednesday, about 20 miles from where she was abducted. Authorities did not say how she died.

(snipped)

Tim Miller, founder of the search group that found Smith, said law enforcement put search teams within a four-mile radius of where the body was found, based on the cell phone signals. The searcher who found the body yelled to everyone else to "get back" so as to not contaminate the crime scene.

"We were just a small part of a big operation to bring some closure to this," Miller told FOX News. "Kelsey’s not going to be part of our future and it’s a terrible, terrible loss."



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,278777,00.html

WOW I guess the good thing is no one could videotape that ! I guess the heat in bama with little rain made some hot under the color. I want to see photos of each one now.

Klaas if you listen carefully in the interview with Greta, I think he says "we were searching a grid and found her right away....."

Give him a "timeout" up here in Michigan.  I'd like to introduce him to our Dem Governor who is running our state into the ground.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Nothing! Dutchie blackout! > i don't blame em...

I did read a review of the not-yet-posted Dr. Phil response of the motion to compel. The one where the Kalpoe's don't want to cough up the criminal docs/statements because of Schipper rule xty2,>6BiZ of Aruban case law.

Dr. Phil basically says that everybody and their mother have been talking publically about the case file for 2 years so it must not apply. Sounds like a good argument. Will keep an eye out for the actual posting.

Oh yes, I had forgotten these two have gotten into it many times.  I think they each have quick tempers.  I was told that by a friend who is currently in the State Senate, so I will not call any names.  Besides, they are both sort of funny looking.   :lol:

I listened carefully for I had heard the news guy she interviewed right before Tim, blond young guy, say that even with all the searches they have done that they still break down and cry - he mentioned that which really is further testament to Tim and his team.

Re: Poems of courage and survival"

all  Monkeys....I love you very much.. you are my closest friends!

Think of the trust I have with you to share what happened at National Airport. I can count on one hand of the ones who have ever know. The incident in New Mexico was worse and here in the trailer court that I think I posted in the Lounge last year.

Nonesuche.. I am printing that poem for tonight, along with a Patriotic one, the one from Mrs. Red about arrested for kindness and something else I can't remember at the moment.

I find as I am getting older, the options of little strength and thought process,  I used to have... these options of "what ifs" may not be able to click in.

I don't know if I agree with all the cameras that England has, but they sure helped in this Target case. I wonder if our local Target has them. Great pretzels tho and sales on notebooks and notebook paper (always the teacher) :lol:  :lol:  but now I misplace the notebooks that have to "to do" lists or misplace them where ever.

Aruba, ALE. Aruban government and Holland: This is the way its done. Done right.   You want tourism back... solve the Natelee case even though we have now had to loose Kelsey Smith.

The outcome of death was the outcome but in 5 days the parents had "closure", a body to bury and the human dignity... Aruba where is your human dignity and feelings??? and someone in jail for justice to be serve if guilty.

we have the 'invisible' gov in my state, he only comes out to go drive NASCAR and he wrecks them too !  :lol:  :lol:

IBE I just want you to be safe and I'm so sorry you've had these traumas to deal with. {{ HUG }}

well off to scrounge up some dinner, what you cooking tonight Blah and can I have some?  :lol:

Yes, I heard that but wasn't certain if he meant WE as in the entire group including FBI and Police or WE as in TES.

Hi Tyler,

Tiger can roar at me if I'm putting words in his mouth, but I think what he is most sensitive to are remarks from people relating to disabled people. If I remember correctly, he has some work experience with disabled clients, and his brother is also disabled. He talks to me about this because of my work with Head Start. He feels strongly that those who are disabled in any way should be protected, and he gets upset about remarks that seem to belittle them. I'm not accusing you of doing that, just trying to expand a little on what Tiger has said, as he tends to be very succinct in his posts.

Good Day Monkeys  :smt006

Just looked at the weather radar & saw snow out in WY & CO   :?

I agree with that, Klaas, and I thought "either he is being modest (which he is) and giving all of "we" credit for finding her, or TES found her."

I picked up a nice Italian sub from the local mom and pop pizza shop on the way home tonight.   Its 95 (thats like 120 to y'all), I havent put the air conditioning in yet so I sure aint cooking !!!   :wink:

Have y'all seen that runner who has two prosthetic legs who wants to be in the olympics? I wouldn't be able to run a tenth that well, and I have both of the legs I was born with!

I am a zebra, but I am woman, hear me roar.  I don't take hand-outs.

Tylergal Where can we learn about this hold? Is there any survival manual out there?  I will ask some Veterans tonight to teach me, I bet they know. Blah thanks, need that today. Easy thanks too

So that is maybe the way it went down so fast and I think she had a full size seat in the car, but now wouldn't have made any difference for she would have been over a bucket seat anyways if that hold had been used.

God, he could have drugged her later and she couldn't fight for her survival. Damn.

Remember, if you have an answering machine.. no family and are doing something, going somewhere you can always leave a message to yourself so others can hear where you are going or went or call a friend.

I need a cell phone. Anyone had any experience with this: someone told me you can get one just for emergencies? With my past... I think this should be something to look into. Thanks Monkey for getting me to think in these areas again... altho at times hard and bittersweet

Be back later.

IBE
Glad you ended up safe... Sorry you had to go thru that.  No one should have to go thru something like that.
What are the laws there on hand held tazers?

IBE - I think I read somewhere that cellphones will work for 911 even if you don't have a service plan??  I'll look into it.  If that's true all you need is any old cellphone and a charger.

Fox is going to deal with the idea that the girl found in the secret room behind the bookcase or whatever.. was not a random target.. They are talking about Kelsey now

Okay, my brain must be really worn out from work today, because I have absolutely no idea what that means.  :?

O/T
How big of pic  ??x?? can we post without blowing the margins..??
TIA

That guys eyes in the picture on this thread last night in KS with Kelsey's case.. looks like the eyes in someone we have been talking about who is involved in the Natalee case... Joran.

I try to make sure they are less that 6 inches wide. Keep the resolution at 72 pixels/inch.

I just had a nice email from Arubagirl. Someone was asking earlier if she is related to any Arends. She wanted me to let people know that she isn't. She said she will be glad to send her family tree if necessary.  :lol:

IBE, it is a vasovagal response to putting pressure on the carotid artery and not allowing oxygen/blood to pass through.

BT, people who work with the disabled know that a zebra is someone with more than one stripe.

I don't understand the "handout" part. I feel really stupid.  :oops:

I don't depend on anyone else to care for me.  I make my own way.  I have more than one disability from being considered legally blind, at one time paraplegic, comatose for more than a month, have primary pulmonary hypertension, hidradenitis suppurativa and pancreatic divisum, but as long as I can make it, I will not ask for help, because to do so is to admit I am weak, and my family raised us that there is no such thing as a weak woman, not to whine, not to depend on others for what we could do for ourselves.  When I am totally unable to do for myself, I pray that will be the day when I will be sent to the crematorium.  I have had doctors urge me to "draw disability."  I am not disabled.  I just had to readjust as to what I could do care for myself.

This is true.  Around here, the Red Cross or Salvation Army or someone collects old ones people dont use and hand them out to the less fortunate and elderly just for this reason.

:lol:  I use my voice mail to wake me up.  I set it to call me if I have someplace to go very early and my DH is away.  I used to tell him to call and remind me but he would get busy doing something and would forget to call, so I set my voice mail so that it would wake me up at that time. :lol:

Gotcha! Thanks for explaining. Sorry I'm being dense this evening.

I use an alarm clock to do the same thing

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Lowell Barron had it coming. He has been an idiot for a VERY long time.

Heading out of town... hopefully I will get to sign on here this weekend a little bit... y'all be good!

Be careful out there.

Port Valerie
I see you might be in lurk mode... Just wanted to say thanks for the link to the WPT site :)

I received an email from a group describing themselves as the “Reward’s Committee” seeking information about the Natalee Holloway reward.  A quick search has not turned up in licensing, permitting, or incorporation records that would indicate that this “Committee” is a legitimate entity.

Thus, one can only presume that this “Committee” has nefarious motivations, including the perpetration of an internet fraud via email.

Content of said email is as follows:

The Natalee Reward site has noticed you have high interest in this subject. With your connections, might you be able to obtain an image of the reward entry Jossy has hosted in the Diario this week.

The Committee very much would like to update their site with this new information. So far we have not seen it anywhere on line.
Others should be able to view this beyond just those in Aruba that may read the Diario.

Reward's Committee.

"Jan Brennan" nhreward@yahoo.com
Full Header information is available

Should this information be forwarded to the family, appropriate authorities, or both?  :lol:

You're welcome, OF. I just did a quick search to find it. I hope it helps you find what you're lurking for.  :)

IBE if you need a cell phone then email Klaas, I have several that are in good working condition and I can send you one, if what Blah says is true that it can still contact 911 for you.

Klaas, I expect Tim was being modest I just typed that so if you wanted to watch it again so you would know his remarks.

I mean, what you're looking for. (Oops. I'm the one who's lurking.)  :lol:

OMG, I can't believe these people!  Tell "the reward committee" she can ask Anita to send her a copy of Diario if it's that important to her.

Klaasend
PhotoBucket says 318x320 & 4400+ bytes  Does not mention inches   :?  ??not sure what the resolution is either
thanks

BOTH Easy  :lol:

I felt when Klaas first posted moonshadows post that meds on relay would be unhappy, so now she's assuaging her upset by going further on the offensive with the reward.

In photobucket - the one that says Website 320 x 240 is the best size.  It's a bit smaller than I like but the next size up is a bit large.  So when I resize in photobucket I pick the 320 x 240.

IBE

Klaas is right.  Many cities have programs requesting old cell phones and chargers to be donated to the women's /domestic abuse shelters.  Any cell phone is capable of dialing 911 without a service plan.

Anna

Scary about your daughter.  When my son was in college, some of the guys started a program for the girls that liked to run.  The guys that had big dogs (off campus) signed them out for running with the girls.  The girls stayed safe and the dogs loved the exercise.

BTgirl

I did a stint with the Board of Health, in the inner city schools.  So many, very little, damaged souls and bodies. Even with caring and meals, I believe the early damage, for the most part, is not fixable  :cry: .  So very sad....and very scary.  Have you followed up on many of the little ones?

My children were very sheltered and quite compassionate.  I learned my lesson about teaching compassion when they decided to volunteer in some unseemly areas.  I was raised in a much bigger city than they and had learned my "what ifs".  I resorted to having them watch "Boys in the Hood" to get an idea of real life.

I would respond with the Diario's mailing (not e-mail address)

if the yahoo dot com e-mail doesnt give it away as a fraud, i dont know what does   :lol:  :lol:

Buckeye,

They don't give us any resources for following up on the children.  :(

What we are doing more of now, though, is enrolling pregnant teens in our program, making sure they have good prenatal care, teaching them parenting skills, and then enrolling the infants when they are born. That seems to be more helpful than waiting until the children are four and trying to help them then. As you say, once the damage occurs it tends not to be fixable.

Forward it to the FBI, I would absolutlely !!!!!!

Hello, reading at work today.
That woman ( Jan ) should step away from her computer and take stock of what she does with her time.
She could go to the outside of her house and take a look at the yard work that needs to be done. And just do it ! !
What a meddler she is. Aren't you glad she isn't your neighbour ?

innernet fraud
http://www.ic3.gov/

email fraud/internet fraud Deprtment of Justice(go here and read - lots of good info)
http://www.usdoj.gov/spam.htm

Was there an accounting of the Joran legal fund??

How much was donated??  How much spent??  How much were the copying fees??  The trip to Aruba to find the room key and talk to Bootey??

OT: nonesy~ do ya know where I can find the smiley guy wearing a sailor hat in a boat?

Taco bought an industrial size Preparation H. For his mouth.  :oops:
Oh oh, Lalas is going to write me up, ok me bad.

How determined is that now!  I think some of us are just built of different "stuff."  Some people are hard to hold down and this guy is made of some "good stuff," what once was the American spirit.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/110010235_c46b848994.jpg)

I wonder why she didn't do that, being she is such a big pal to Anita, Paulus and Joran.  Or, why she did not contact Renfro, MF, the Diario and ask them directly?  As I said, this "Committee" is not on the up and up.  It must be violating some law......

That stupid white noise got where I could snooze right through that.  Perhaps because I did experiments with white noise once upon a time with one of my kids for a science project that he worked on for 2-3 years so he could win the state science fair and I heard it until I no longer heard it, just totally did not hear it any longer.  Same way with musical instruments.  All three of mine were into music, and their dad would tell me they were being too loud (when he would come home).  I honestly had not even heard it.  I guess we learn to tune out some things.

But Taco Joe went on National TV and said that he was working pro-bono

Easy - forward it to the DOJ, seriously I would.

 :shock:

Klaasend
thanks  that is the size I made it..

From what I can gather some site are still having a Hissy about the reward fund (For what ever reason)

I seem to remember at one time one of the Aruba Web sites had a short synopsis of what Aruba had contributed to help find Natalee & the help provided to the family

Govt. Office let out for the day
F-16's
Comps at Hotels & other bussiness  etc.
donation of equipment
And also a list of  contributions toward a reward (not sure if same fund or not)
But anyway I want to say that the ATA contributed $'s for the reward.

If they did..  Why are they asking everywhere else for details??
Just wondering
BBL   Maybe

Maybe we should form a "Committee" and get those records!

There is the Reward fund and the regular donations fund.  Two different things.  The money in the Reward fund can only be used for a reward (I believe).

I have never seen an accounting of reward fund money in any case.  I don't know what RU and FOB are trying to prove.

Do ya think Nancy Grace might have something to say about Paris?   8)

Confirming what we knew.

Anyone who has contact with that little group could remind them of all the additional charges for the weeks and weeks when the government employees in Aruba clocked in at their regular time and posted on blogs all day defending the Sloots and calling Beth all kinds of perverted names, denigrating Natalee and making inflammatory pictures of Jug, Beth and Natalee, all of which were placed on public forms.  How much did that cost tourism?  I would expect the expenses they incurred were miniscule compared to the tourism it cost them, however, as I see that was the biggest problem with their tourism was the denial, the denigrating and the defamation.

Thanks Klaasend..
They was a list on some ARuban web site..  (part of there PR of see what we did)
I want to say within the 1st 2-3 weeks the reward changed.. I'm thinking part of that money came from various entities on Aruba.

Whether that got rolled into the current one,  if it still exists as a seperate thing or went by the way of the trade winds.. I do not know or care.
RU  ??
I used to read there.. BUT almost neve ever any more..
Like trying to understand Charles Manson to me.. :roll:
SeeYaa

Justins can I buy a clue?  :lol: Is it one I posted before? these are all the boats and dingy's I have except for the big pirate ship?

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/loveboat.gif)

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/canoesmile.gif)

(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/thsigns-shipwrecked.gif)

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol: