Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

oook, did I do it right? It's been a while.

oh yeah

http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5 (http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5)

EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
FBI Cadaver Dog hit back on Monday inside #lisairwin #findbabylisa home according to our reporting partner the KC Star.
55 minutes ago

Eric Chaloux
EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
According to reporting partners: PD dog got a "hit" in bedroom of #lisairwin house on Monday.#findbabylisa
1 hour ago

»
Eric Chaloux
EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
#lisairwin parents' local attorney says in news release parents "want one thing:the safe return of their daughter."
1 hour ago

EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
#lisairwin billboards going up today. Follow @BetsyKCTV5 for more. #findbabylisa
3 hours ago

Yes, you did it right.  Just like riding a bike.   ::MonkeyBike::  Thank you Nut!

Any news from the lawyers yet?

??? 

http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman (http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman)

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
by Heycameraman
Affidavit for Tues search warrant at #LisaIrwin house says FBI cadaver dog had positive "hit" for a deceased human in mother's bedroom.
1 hour ago

I got lost.  ::MonkeyTongue::

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House

By CHRISTINA NG
Oct. 21, 2011

 A cadaver dog searching for evidence of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed, according to a police affidavit released today.

 The affidavit was filed with a Kansas City court to request a search warrant of the family home. That search was carried out Wednesday and police left with several items, including a large portion of carpet.

 The court document also indicated that Lisa's parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, restricted police access to the home. ::snipping2::

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129

The attorney for Lisa Irwin's parents said she is working on a response to the info from the search warrant & affidavit.
by Karen Yancey/Staff 3:44 P

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bS4f2Eci

http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman (http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman)
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
by Heycameraman
Attorney for #LisaIrwin parents says she's working on a response to the info from the search warrant & affidavit.
10 minutes ago

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-search-warrant-cadaver-dogs-show-positive-hint-in-irwin-parents-bedroom-20111021,0,4010354.story
Search Warrant: Cadaver Dogs Show 'Positive Hint' In Irwin Parent's Bedroom
3:29 p.m. CDT, October 21, 2011
KANSAS CITY—

Court documents released on Friday show that a cadaver dog indicated a "positive hit" in the bedroom of Lisa Irwin's parents during a search of the home this week.  The search warrant return also indicated that police investigated "recently disturbed" dirt in the backyard.
 ::snipping2::

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
Oct. 21, 2011

A cadaver dog searching for evidence of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed, according to a police affidavit released today.

The affidavit was filed with a Kansas City court to request a search warrant of the family home. That search was carried out Wednesday and police left with several items, including a large portion of carpet.

<snipped>

The cadaver dog that searched the home on Oct. 17 with the parents' agreement "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed," the affidavit stated. The consistency and accuracy of cadaver dogs has been challenged in past cases.

The police request for the warrant said, "A more extensive and intrusive search needs to be completed at the property where the baby was last accounted."

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6387/222uq.png)

Dogs don't lie.

now lets' go over that timeline again Miss Bradley.............

http://twitter.com/#!/PeterAlexander (http://twitter.com/#!/PeterAlexander)
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
Per court dox, police took blankets, toys, clothes, "rolls of tape" & "tape dispenser" from #LisaIrwin home.
1 hour ago
Peter Alexander
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
Per affidavit, #LisaIrwin's mom initially told cops she didn't look behind house bc "was afraid of what she might find."
1 hour ago
Peter Alexander
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
#BREAKING Cadaver dog indicated a "hit" inside #LisaIrwin home, per police affidavit, in area of floor in mom's BR near bed.
1 hour ago

It appears that a warrant was necessary as Debbie and Jeremy had restricted the previous search.

Janet

+++++

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
Oct. 21, 2011

<snipped>

The court document also indicated that Lisa's parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, restricted police access to the home.

"The only areas extensively processed for DNA and fingerprints during the consent were the baby's bedroom and possible points of entry," the document states.

"The extent of the search had been limited in nature with consent" of the parents, police stated in the request for the search warrant.

The cadaver dog that searched the home on Oct. 17 with the parents' agreement "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed," the affidavit stated. The consistency and accuracy of cadaver dogs has been challenged in past cases.

The police request for the warrant said, "A more extensive and intrusive search needs to be completed at the property where the baby was last accounted."

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129

 ::rhino::

::rhino::

This reaffirms for me the travesty of justice in the Caylee Anthony case.  Now everyone thinks they can get a way with it.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1185/toysd.png)

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5864/96601556.png)

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/21/jeanine-pirro-reports-police-came-out-of-irwin-house-with-comforter-purple-shorts-toys-and-more/
4:29 pm ET October 21, 2011
Jeanine Pirro Reports Police Came Out of Irwin House With Comforter, Purple Shorts, Toys, and More
by Studio B Posted in: Baby Lisa, Deborah Bradley, Deborah Irwin, Jeanine Pirro, Jeremy Irwin, Lisa Irwin, Studio B, Trace Gallagher 

Yep! My thoughts, exactly.

Sorry, that was supposed to be in response to everyone thinking they can get away with it since the Casey Anthony case. Forgot to hit "quote". My apologies.

The only response needs to be:  The mother is turning herself in .   ::MonkeyShocked::

Inconsistent Statements

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
Oct. 21, 2011

<snipped>

The document also contained a puzzling comment by Lisa's mother. "Bradley made the statement she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she 'was afraid of what she might find,'" it said.

In addition, the police cited a "garden area with portions of dirt having an appearance of being recently disturbed or overturned."

The affidavit lists items that investigators took from the house, including a multicolored comforter, purple shorts, a Disney character shirt, a glow worm toy, a Cars-themed blanket, rolls of tape and a tape dispenser.

Bradley has previously told investigators that Lisa was wearing purple shorts and a purple t-shirt when she last saw her on the night of Oct. 3, the night Lisa vanished.

The document also revealed that inconsistent stories from the "people involved" may have hampered the early stages of the investigaton.

"Investigative interviews with the people involved revealed conflicting information for clear direction in the investigation," the affidavit said.

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129

Exactly.

Sadly, the response is going to be attacking the accuracy of the dogs. That's where it always goes...sigh. :-( The only reason he's taking time to prepare it is so he can have time to look up data to support his attack. Blech!

Witnesses?

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
Oct. 21, 2011

<snipped>

Earlier today, three witnesses in two Kansas City locations told "Good Morning America" they were convinced they saw a man carrying a baby matching Lisa's description the night she disappeared from her Missouri bedroom.

Mike Thompson told ABC News that he was on his way home from work around 4 a.m. on Oct. 4 when he saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby at an intersection about three miles from the Irwin home.

It was shortly after 4 a.m. that Lisa's parents said they discovered she was missing.

"[At] 4 a.m., 45 degrees, baby don't have a coat or nothing and this guy is walking down the street and I thought it was kind of weird," Thompson said.

He thought the sight was so unusual that he recalled considering offering the man and baby a ride home, but couldn't because he was on his motorcycle. He later reported what he saw to police and told ABC News he is convinced the baby was Lisa.

Thompson described the man as around 5-feet-7, between 140 and 150 pounds and in his late 30s or early 40s.

A few hours earlier, a couple living three houses down from the Irwin family said they saw a similar sight. A woman and her husband said they saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby. They thought the situation was so unusual that they reported it to police on the morning of Oct. 4.

"It was shocking because I couldn't imagine anyone outside walking with their baby in the cold like that with no clothes on," the woman told ABC News.

Bradley has said that Lisa was wearing purple shorts and a purple t-shirt when she last saw her, but the neighboring couple said they baby they saw did not appear to be wearing any clothing.

"We seen the little arm, the leg, it didn't look like the baby had on any clothes, just a diaper," she said.

The woman said police have interviewed her four times and police say they are still looking into the possible sightings.

"That is something that we've followed up on," said Kansas City Police Department Sgt. Stacey Graves. "We've haven't discounted it and we have no reason to believe that they didn't see what they said that they saw."

Graves said investigators plan on continuing to follow up on tips and leads today.

"Eyewitness testimony tends to be notoriously unreliable," said "Good Morning America" legal analyst Dan Abrams today. "With that said, the consistency of these two accounts is interesting."

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129

Debbie and Jeremy definitely have some splain'in to to do.  It's not every day a cadaver dog hits positive on the scent of deceased human in the bedroom of a home.  I agree with Kermit, "dogs don't lie". 

Don't you know she is -- LOL.

from lisa missing poster

Lisa has a birthmark on her right thigh. She was last known to be wearing purple pants
and a purple shirt with kittens on it.

i still cant find the interview,when DB described what lisa was wearing,but i thought
she said shorts,not pants

poster
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=1180911&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet

wonder if the stuff LE took has a death scent too
another thought lisa prob has several,purple shorts and pants
but you cant get away from the carpet,shouldnt be long b4
LE makes an arrest,i wish we knew dads route from to starbucks

Good evening Monkey's,

CW618,  I would like to know what shift, Sip's husband worked.  Mucho man looks fearless...mucho, mucho man....

Good point. Wonder if they had the dogs check the company van? Did the mother have a car, too? Sorry, I can't recall. If so, wonder if the dogs checked that, too?

No doubt ...  it's sickening.

 Witnesses Say They Saw Man Carrying Baby Resembling Lisa Irwin
12:38 PM ET
Share

 
Witnesses Say They Saw Man Carrying Baby Resembling Lisa Irwin

There were new reports Friday about witnesses who believe they saw a man carrying a baby resembling Lisa Irwin in her neighborhood on the night her parents say she disappeared from her home.

ABC’s “Good Morning America” reported that three witnesses saw a man in a t-shirt holding a baby wearing nothing but a diaper in the early morning hours of October 4. All said they found this unusual because of the cold weather in the area that night.

Lisa’s parents have said she vanished from her crib sometime between 6:40 pm on October 3, when mother Deborah Bradley put her to bed, and 4:00 am on October 4, when father Jeremy Irwin returned from work.

Around 12:15 am, a couple that lives a few houses away from the family spotted the man and baby. The female witness, who spoke to ABC, said she has been interviewed by police four times about what she saw.

Three miles away and nearly four hours later, around 4 am, Mike Thompson saw a man and baby fitting a similar description at an intersection off I-435. Thompson said the man was 5’7” or 5’8” and probably in his late 30s or early 40s. ::snipping2::

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/21/witnesses-say-they-saw-man-carrying-baby-resembling-lisa-irwin/?hpt=ng_mid

What color shirt did Jeremy Irwin have on that night when Lisa went missing?

OCTOBER 21, 2011

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
Oct. 21, 2011

<snipped>

The affidavit lists items that investigators took from the house, including a multicolored comforter, purple shorts, a Disney character shirt, a glow worm toy, a Cars-themed blanket, rolls of tape and a tape dispenser.

Bradley has previously told investigators that Lisa was wearing purple shorts and a purple t-shirt when she last saw her on the night of Oct. 3, the night Lisa vanished.

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129


OCTOBER 4, 2011

Baby girl feared abducted from crib in Kansas City
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:47 p.m. CDT

<snipped>

Police have spread the word about Lisa's disappearance through the media and on electronic bill boards above major highways in the area.

Lisa is described as having blue eyes and blond hair and was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens  on it. Police are asking that anyone with information call the TIPS Hotline at 816-474-8477

<snipped>

http://wsau.com/news/articles/2011/oct/04/baby-girl-feared-abducted-from-crib-in-kansas-city/

 
 Just MAYBE the woman who saw a guy walking w a baby w dangling arms she says ... Was Debbies brother or ? Walking to bury the baby somewhere.

Spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
&*&^&%$^&^ wasting money, police and everyone involved in this case when they could of helped someone else...

I still don'think she was DRUNK.  She knew Le was coming for her sooner or later and used being drunk as a defense I bet....

How COULD both be on tv saying the child was taken ::MonkeyMad::

I am so proud of this team, Le and everyone they are doing a great job.

She's done, arrests will be soon...jmo

Just bringing forward the warrant document:

AFFIDAVIT FOR SEARCH WARRANT

STATE OF MISSOURI
ss.
COUNTY OF CLAY

I, Kimberly Shirley-Williams, Detective with the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department,
FIRST BEING SWORN UPON MY OATH STATE AS FOLLOWS, BEFORE THE
UNDERSIGNED JUDGE AUTHORIZED TO ISSUE WARRANTS IN CRIMINAL CASES:

My name is Kimberly Shirley-Williams. I have been employed at the Kansas City,
Missouri Police Department for over thirteen years. I am currently assigned as a
detective with the Kansas City Missouri Police Department Crimes Against Children Unit.

I am requesting a Search Warrant for the residence at 3620 N. Lister Drive, Kansas City,
Clay County, Missouri, the actual land, any and all vehicles (operable or non-operable)
and trailers located on the property, and the detached building located to the rear of the residence.

The property to be searched for and seized is described as follows: Any evidence
deemed to have evidentiary value to the relevant case ofa missing child, to include, but
not limited to DNA, fingerprints, cell phones and evidence of human decomposition.

On October 4, 2011 patrol officers with the Kansas City Missouri Police department were
dispatched to 3620 N. Lister on a reported missing child.

Upon arrival, contact was made with Jeremy Irwin who stated his 10-month-old
daughter (LI) was missing from their house. Officers entered the residence to search for
the baby. All rooms in the house and the basement were checked for the baby. An area
canvass was also conducted in the back yard, both yielding negative results.

Detectives obtained consent to search for the house beginning on October 4, 2011.
Detectives and crime scene personnel searched the home for any evidence of a child or
evidence to support an abduction of a child. Crime scene personnel recovered items
from the home, but due to initial information provided by the family, the only areas
extensively processed for DNA and fingerprints during the consent were the baby's
bedroom and possible points of entry.

Interviews with Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, the baby's mother and father,
revealed the baby was missing along with three cell phones. Law enforcement
personnel searched the home and located a cell phone in the bottom desk drawer of the
computer desk. It was later determined that the cell phone located in the drawer was not
one of the missing cell phones in question. The three reported missing cell phones have
not been located and would include additional evidence. A search of the surrounding
area for evidence of the baby and/or cell phones has been met with negative results.

Investigative interviews with the people involved revealed conflicting information for clear
direction in the investigation. Bradley made the statement she did not initially look for
her baby behind the house because she "was afraid of what she might find." The extent
of the search had been limited in nature with consent although each search has
recovered evidence helpful to further progress the investigation. However, the type of
search needed at this time would not be conducive to being revoked at any time by the
owners and/or their attorney. A more extensive intrusive search needs to be completed
at the property where the baby was last accounted. There have been 585 tips/leads
investigated as of this date and none have revealed the whereabouts or deposition of
the baby. The items and evidence recovered as of this date supports the need for a
thorough, time consuming, and systematic search using additional techniques. The
search needed on the property may include hand-held tool excavation of the physical
land. The land includes a garden area with portions of dirt having an appearance of
being recently disturbed or overturned.

On October 17, 2011 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent
of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive "hit" for the scent of a
deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed.

The foregoing is true to the best belief and knowledge, further affiant saith not.

__________________
Det. Kimberly Shirley-Williams #4566

It was rumored that Debbie's brother lived in the basement of the Bradley/Irwin home.  Was there any affirmation?

Janet

+++++

Baby Lisa's Uncle Identified as Man in Surveillance Tape
Thursday October 13, 2011 03:25 PM EDT

The man seen on a surveillance tape shopping with Baby Lisa's mother has been identified as the woman's brother, according to a news report.

Deborah Bradley and her brother were purchasing wine for a family event at the Festival Foods near her home in Kansas City, Mo., family members tell KCTV5.

According to the station, police have interviewed the brother and determined he wasn't involved in the disappearance of 10-month-old Lisa.

<snipped>

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20536781,00.html

A receipt for the property taken, bringing forward:

RETURN/RECEIPT FOR SEARCH WARRANT  SUPP CRN 11-071958

I, Det. David Albers, #4542, being a peace officer in and for the county of Clay, State of Missouri, do hereby make Return/Receipt of the attached Warrant as follows:

That on the 19th day of October, 2011, and within 10 days after filing of the Application for Issuance of Search Warrant, I went to the person, place or thing described in said Warrant and searched the same for the property described, and that upon said person, place or thing I discovered the following property described in said Warrant which I then and there took into my possession: (list property taken)

- Multi-color comforter

- Purple shorts

- Multi-color Disney character shirt

- Glow worm toy

- "Cars" themed blanket

- Rolls of tape

- Tape dispenser

that I made this inventory in the presence of (possessor) the person from whose possession I took said property; that the owner of said property is Jeremy Irwin (that there was no person present from whose possession said property was taken); that I delivered to said possessor and/or owner a Receipt for the property taken, together with a copy of this warrant (that, there being no person in possession of said property present on said premises, I left a copy of this Warrant with a Receipt for the property taken, in a conspicuous place on said premises); that I have now placed said property so taken in the possession of the Court that issued said Search Warrant.

_____________________
PEACE OFFICER

Subscribed and Sworn before me this   day of  , .

_____________________
CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT

A tape dispenser makes a clicking sound if done slowly... hmmm...

Actually how long was Lisa dead is my question.
When was the last time anyone besides the adults saw her?

At this time, I don't believe anything she has said.
 ::MonkeyShovel::

TY Itaryl Moosee,for the typed/copied text of warrant
hoping this case gets solved/someone arrested,while,im off to the
high school varsity playoff for state champ

I would love to be a fly on the wall wherever DB is right now......just saying  ::MonkeyDevil::

No solid confirmations of where he resides.

From the Crime Stoppers TIPS Hotine: The Greater Kansas City Crime Stoppers TIPS Hotline, Kansas City, Missouri Police Department and FBI have received numerous inquiries in regard to the website www.lisa-irwin.com and want to make it clear to the public that this website is NOT affiliated with the official investigation, the TIPS Hotline, KCPD or FBI.
Further, the TIPS Hotline wants to warn the public that although the www.lisa-irwin.com site encourages the public “if you have any information about this case, please use the form below, even anonymous tips will be welcome:” it is unlikely that submissions are truly anonymous. The Crime Stoppers TIPS Hotline has software in place that keeps TIPSTERS anonymous and prohibits the tracking of IP addresses or cell phone numbers if the TIP is received via text message.
Anyone with information is urged to contact Crime Stoppers Greater Kansas City TIPS Hotline at 816-474-TIPS (8477), TIPS may also be submitted electronically at KCcrimestoppers.com, or by texting TIP452 and you information to 274637 (CRIMES). Information leading to an arrest in the case could be eligible for up to $1,000.00 in reward money.
by Karen Yancey/Staff 5:29 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bSSvzTpA

Me too........

What is the significance of taking a tape dispenser?  sorry if I missed something

I'd like to know what kind of tape and dispenser? They have packing tape dispensers. And as someone above mentioned, that can make a sort of clicking noise while being used. And if they were wrapping a dead something, there might be DNA.

watch the husband and his facial expressions (and lack thereof) and his eyes when the interviews are replayed.  That is not normal to me, anyway.

KCTVPhotog_Bill Bill Lindsay
by NimaKCTV5
The KCMO police helicopter just made 3 passes over the Irwin family home on Walrond and now it looks like it's headed to the Lister house.
13 minutes ago https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5 (https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5)

I agree.  ::rhino::

Thanks cartfly

Janet

I'm speculating that Deborah put the baby in her bed with her and an inebriated mother suffocated her own baby.
Baby falls onto the floor or mother puts her on the floor and then disposes of body and creates baby kidnapped alibi.



 

Not normal whatsoever!!!!
 ::rhino::

Yep now we see the fallout. Hope Baez burns in hell with Casey.

flies always have a way of landing on the poop

someone asked what Lisa was last reported wearing, this is from the original amber alert issued, but I noted that they say shorts/pants --- seems like a mom would know the difference between pants and shorts. Kind of odd.


blonde hair

blue eyes

30-inches tall

weighs 26-30 lbs.

has two bottom teeth

a beauty mark on right outer thigh

currently has a cold with a cough and a small bug bite under her left ear.

last seen wearing purple shorts/pants with white kittens printed.

Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House?  Oh dear, this does not look good.  I can only pray that it's the odor of DB's atrophied ladybits and not baby Lisa.

Does anyone know how soon a deceased body would start to give off a an odor?  Would it be immediately, minutes or hours?

I just saw this:
Investigator searches the memorial outside home of missing baby (http://www.seattlepi.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=1688585&width=628&height=471)

Why would they search there?

fingerprints/hair/dna
used for perhaps wrapping around baby for body disposal

 ::snipping2::

I've seen baby/toddler pants that are not shorts or pants as the hem is just below the knee.  I have no idea what they're called.

I have a stupid question I'm sure, but what are ladybits?

capris????

Not a stupid question.  Well, let's just say that if I told you, I'd probably be banned.  :lol:




Yes, that's it!  Good lord, as a former clothing designer you'd think I'd have known that.  Yes, those type of shorts/pants thingys usually come as a set with a long waisted top.

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/316117_134636249975652_125929840846293_123404_1323983706_n.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Vk3kW13A1Rs/TpuKml6lwfI/AAAAAAAABNE/sk1Zr5I3_bc/s1600/lisairwin3.jpg)
this states purple pants

well dad nab it now I'm curious about ladybit, but I don't want you to be banned.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I know what you are talking about - I've seen those type of pants as a set for kids.

hey everyone, just wanted to comment on this case.  i have been following it but ever since the casey anthony case i haven't posted as much. 

i personally think that if the mom did roll over on lisa in bed and suffocated her that she would have called 911 and reported it. i think she intentionally killed her baby.  however, she is certainly taking "pre emptive" strikes at trying to set up a good defense for herself.  i unfortunately think we are going to see many effects of the anthony trial in further cases of parents killing their children. its sickening.  i don't know how certain lawyers (cough cough) sleep at night.

Oh just had a sad idea what if she had typed Lisa's little mouth like you know who did. ::MonkeyShocked:: OH crap this makes me sick to think about

 ::rhino::

They are also called peddle pushers, that's from way back in time.  1940-50s

How 'bout a clue then:  The definition of ladybits loosely rhymes with the medical term for chest pains.

BBM

That's a good point.  I believe she would call 911 too, IF she had been sober.  Rolling over onto your baby normally would be an unfortunate accident.  Rolling over while intoxicated could be considered child endangerment/involuntary manslaughter.

I'll chime in with *clam diggers*  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes, this is what I think, even though accidental, she might not call 911.

Yes it would.  I also considered someone was trying lighters in the house to find one that worked so they could burn evidence in the dumpster.

I believe what happened to Lisa was more of an assault instead of being smothered while sleeping.  Mom seems to be very guilty and if she was extremely tired and had spent a couple of hours trying to get her baby to quiet down, I believe she reacted in anger and killed Lisa, perhaps even as a result of putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't hear her cries.

She initially began to dig in the backyard but thought better of it.  Perhaps she carried Lisa's body to the woods and was crying loudly, hence the witness who heard a scream from the woods that night, but she could not bring herself to dispose of the body so she called someone to come help her, hence the phones are missing... she would not want those calls traced.  The 2:30 phone call coincides with the timing of the dumpster fire.  This Someone came (a smallish male, according to witness description, with no vehicle) and took Lisa's body. 

I wonder if witnesses saw a live baby in the arms of the man carrying her.  Maybe in the night shadows the man appeared to be black but is in fact a white man.  Someone carrying a deceased baby would not think it necessary to cover her with a coat or blanket. 

Her two boys should be interviewed again.  Would Lisa need to be charged for that to happen without her consent? 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hi6de2tS1a3rjtRwfNB28lHr2OJw?docId=1246e8c904544656a34e35524a3d413f
Document: Cadaver dog 'hit' at missing baby's home
October 21, 2011

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — An FBI cadaver dog reacted to the scent of a dead person inside the Kansas City home where a baby girl disappeared nearly three weeks ago, and investigators discovered soil in the backyard that had been "recently disturbed or overturned," police said in a court document released Friday.

The affidavit, filed earlier this week in support of a search warrant targeting the family's home, also stated that the girl's mother, Deborah Bradley, "made the statement she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she 'was afraid of what she might find.'"

Those details and others in the affidavit, publicly released for the first time Friday, led to a daylong search Wednesday of the family's home, where the parents say then-10-month-old Lisa Irwin must have been snatched in the middle of the night as the mother and two other boys slept.  ::snipping2::

The affidavit stated that an FBI cadaver dog taken into the house Monday indicated a "positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

The FBI dogs, which often are used at both disaster and crime scenes, are trained "specially to recognize the scent of decaying, decomposing human flesh," retired FBI special agent Jeff Lanza said Friday.

"That can be the scent of an actual body decomposing, or residual scents after the body is no longer there," Lanza said.

Dr. Edward David, a deputy chief medical examiner for the state of Maine and co-author of the "Cadavar Dog Handbook," said that when a body is left in one spot for several hours, cells are left behind. They continue to decompose and create an odor, giving the dog scents to detect.

He said that while trained dogs may fail to detect the smell of human decomposition about 30 percent of the time, they generally don't alert when nothing is there. One exception is when human waste is present.

The court document also indicated police felt they needed handheld digging tools after an investigator noticed dirt in a garden area behind the home appeared to have been "recently disturbed or overturned." During Wednesday's search, investigators could be seen digging behind a shed in the backyard.

Among other revelations in the affidavit:

—Officers searched all rooms in the house and the basement after being called to the home Oct. 4. Officers sought evidence but because the parents said the baby had been abducted, the only areas extensively processed for DNA and fingerprints were the baby's bedroom and possible entry points.

—The parents had told police that three cell phones were missing. The affidavit said a phone had since been found in a desk drawer, but that phone wasn't one of those reported missing. The missing phones haven't been found.

—Interviews with people involved in the case revealed "conflicting information for clear direction in the investigation."

Another document released Friday revealed some of what police recovered from the home during Wednesday's search: a comforter and blanket, some clothes, rolls of tape and a tape dispenser.
 ::snipping2::

Sunshine, me too. Welcome back. I agree. Why not call 9-1-1. Unless there's something to hide. Something.

Lets just say the neatherlands . . .

Culottes

 ::MonkeyJnBox::

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129
Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
October 21, 2011

A cadaver dog searching for evidence of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed, according to a police affidavit released today.

The affidavit was filed with a Kansas City court to request a search warrant of the family home. That search was carried out Wednesday and police left with several items, including a large portion of carpet.

The court document also indicated that Lisa's parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, restricted police access to the home.

"The only areas extensively processed for DNA and fingerprints during the consent were the baby's bedroom and possible points of entry," the document states.

"The extent of the search had been limited in nature with consent" of the parents, police stated in the request for the search warrant.

The cadaver dog that searched the home on Oct. 17 with the parents' agreement "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed," the affidavit stated. The consistency and accuracy of cadaver dogs has been challenged in past cases.

The police request for the warrant said, "A more extensive and intrusive search needs to be completed at the property where the baby was last accounted."
 ::snipping2::
Earlier today, three witnesses in two Kansas City locations told "Good Morning America" they were convinced they saw a man carrying a baby matching Lisa's description the night she disappeared from her Missouri bedroom.

Mike Thompson told ABC News that he was on his way home from work around 4 a.m. on Oct. 4 when he saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby at an intersection about three miles from the Irwin home.

It was shortly after 4 a.m. that Lisa's parents said they discovered she was missing.

"[At] 4 a.m., 45 degrees, baby don't have a coat or nothing and this guy is walking down the street and I thought it was kind of weird," Thompson said.

He thought the sight was so unusual that he recalled considering offering the man and baby a ride home, but couldn't because he was on his motorcycle. He later reported what he saw to police and told ABC News he is convinced the baby was Lisa.
 ::snipping2::
A few hours earlier, a couple living three houses down from the Irwin family said they saw a similar sight. A woman and her husband said they saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby. They thought the situation was so unusual that they reported it to police on the morning of Oct. 4.

"It was shocking because I couldn't imagine anyone outside walking with their baby in the cold like that with no clothes on," the woman told ABC News.
The woman said police have interviewed her four times and police say they are still looking into the possible sightings.

"That is something that we've followed up on," said Kansas City Police Department Sgt. Stacey Graves. "We've haven't discounted it and we have no reason to believe that they didn't see what they said that they saw."

"Eyewitness testimony tends to be notoriously unreliable," said "Good Morning America" legal analyst Dan Abrams today. "With that said, the consistency of these two accounts is interesting."
 ::snipping2::

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20539176,00.html
Baby Lisa Case: Cadaver Dog Picks Up Dead Body Scent in the Family Home
By Jeff Truesdell
Friday October 21, 2011 05:15 PM EDT

And Captain Steve Young has known it for a long time and wasn't about to give up.   

This is probably the rug from the parents' bedroom.

are those landscape lights on the bottom right of this photo? It looks like those solar ones from Home depot.

http://www.kmbc.com/video/29554334/detail.html
Details Of Lisa Irwin Search Warrant Released
POSTED: 5:16 pm CDT October 21, 2011
UPDATED: 5:18 pm CDT October 21, 2011

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/video/29554334/detail.html#ixzz1bSw2w9jN

I agree.

http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman (http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman)

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
by Heycameraman
Prayer circle in front of #LisaIrwin home. Common occurrence, but Lisa's grandparents & other family showed up tonight. img.ly/9EoD (http://img.ly/9EoD)
33 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman (http://twitter.com/#!/heycameraman)

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
by Heycameraman
Prayer circle in front of #LisaIrwin home. Common occurrence, but Lisa's grandparents & other family showed up tonight. img.ly/9EoD (http://img.ly/9EoD)
33 minutes ago


(http://s3.amazonaws.com/imgly_production/2300239/large.jpg)

(http://images.scribblelive.com/2011/10/21/41d773e8-c2d1-4d24-a803-40991e3b778d_400.jpg)
There was a prayer circle in front of Irwin house on North Lister Avenue. KMBC's Cliff Judy reported that this is pretty common occurrence, but two of Lisa Irwin's grandparents showed up tonight.
by Karen Yancey/Staff 7:31 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bSynoDeB

I was wondering anyone know how long a cadaver dog can detect death?
Jeremys house is from 1958 so if someone died there b4 long ago,is that possible for dogs to pick that up?

I see human waste can be a false too. Guess thy can get the fluid samples maybe?

Sorry Muffy! Didn't mean to repeat the photo.   ::HelloKitty::

No worries.  ::bee::

One of the best places to hide something is in plain sight, although it would be extremely brazen to hide evidence in a memorial.  I think it shows that LE is being thorough.

Im not sure you all seen this but here is a old friend of hers talking about DB
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/deborah-bradley-baby-lisa-irwin-missing_n_1022905.html

I am wondering if they didnt kill Lisa earlier then Oct 3rd. But wondering why they would report now but then wonder if they arent into a cult and little Lisa was used as a sacrifice . So many questions and no answers yet

http://www.kmbc.com/download/2011/1021/29552279.pdf
The lawyers and parents statement

forgive me if this has already been posted.

What is the brothers alibi from the time the neighbors saw a man carrying a baby and when the guy on the motorcycle saw what appeared to be the same guy with a baby. Seems to me if there were someone out there innocently walking with their baby at that same time that they would have already spoken up. It also seems to me that they would want to tell the world that he was just out walking his baby. Would made for a good news story.Very suspicious that the man has not spoken up.If the man on the cycle can recognize him then why don't police show him the brothers photo??

HLN- Dr Drew is having a segment regarding baby Lisa, his show is on now

I'm going out on a limb here and say I'm thinking the parents aren't guilty. Just a feeling.

i completely agree. it is very very freaky

I talked to a guy the other day about his dogs, he had used them in the Kelly Currin case in Oxford NC. Basically he told me that the dog is given something of the person who is missing and that dog follows that scent only. Its not like say 5 yrs ago someone died in my house then yesterday my son was killed in the same room the dogs wouldnt pay attention to the scent unless it matched the victim's . This guy was really interesting to talk to.b. I tried to think of questions to ask but to be honest the dogs just amazed me so much he had drug dogs body dogs and hunter dogs and about 5 other dogs that did cadaver stuff. He let us watch them go through a lesson. He even had a family shih tzu who went through the lesson and when that shih tzu got to the item he would just shake all over like he had just took a bath.

Did I miss it?  Just turned it on, they will be talking about an 11year old.

How so?  I am open minded and just want Lisa to come home.  There are lots of things that point to her parents so what gives you the feeling?

I'm thinking they are but I'll wait for more evidence to back up my feelings ::MonkeyCool::

I would think that a baby in 45 degree temp without clothes on would be crying

That's awesome! I'm so glad you talked with him and have this info!
I wanted to know for sure it was Lisa not someone else. That makes sense too!
 When will they arrest her I guess there giving time for labs ?

(Poor shih tzu- :) )

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6169/6268071738_2a48e52363_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6212/6268071762_870f812388_b.jpg)

I would think so too and a sick freezing cold baby

Reminds me of statements Tacopina has made in the past about the innocence of his client Joran van der Sloot.  Also reminds me of the statements by Baez and the Anthony's early on in the Caylee Anthony case before Caylee's body was found.

In other words, that statement by the attorneys for Lisa's parents is worth less than the paper it's written on, IMO.

Let's not forget sick and with a stranger?

How would they know that?  Are they implying that the parents have asked certain questions that have gone unanswered?

Ok it is a possibility that it was Lisa and wouldnt be so far fetched of a thought, that all 3 witnesses claimed to seen a man walk with a baby only in a diaper. That man could of been the brother or bother's friend just walking so someone could get a look at the scene of a guy walking with a baby. I just dont believe if Lisa had been kidnapped that the kidnapper would walk in the middle of the night he might walk down the road get in a unmarked car but to walk a few miles is crazy

if they aren't involved then how do you explain the cadaver dog getting a hit in the parents bedroom?

Not if the baby was already dead and parents trying to set up alibis

Could this guy been actually walking to his car that was parked a few blocks away from Lisa's house?
Then he drove and parked and walked a ways away from his car??

That spot at 4:30am the cops should take dogs there..
 ::MonkeyShocked::

ITA..in the past three years we have seen more parents and so called caregivers try to hide/cover the fact they had abised and murdered their child..and they get more bizarre as we go along..each seems to gather momentum and tacitics from the last..

FTLOG..please people..if yoou do not want to parent anylonger take your child to a safe place/shelter and give them up..there are people who will take them in and care for them..there are families waiting to adopt children..why oh why when you can give birth doesn't it come with a heart.

How does that scenerio fir in with a cadaver dog hitting in the parent's bedroom..no one else in the family is dead..and unless someone from a previous owner died in that room..then we are left with one result.

Maybe the cousin/boyfriend(?) helped her to get rid of the dead baby>?

I been saying the same thing lately if you have a child that you do not want to be a parent to then please please put it up for adoption I dont care if its a newborn to 18 yrs old. But stop killing them to get money from movie deals donations from organizations etc

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12213.msg1480472#msg1480472 Edit to add link back to Serenity's post MB

Posts: 62



View Profile
   
   
Re: Lisa Irwin #4 10/21/11 -
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2011, 12:04:44 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote

Does anyone else think it's strange that this man walking with a baby has not spoken up yet? If it was just an innocent walk then there would be no reason not to speak up.

Yes or brother or lover ??

Unless he was going to the woods to bury her?

http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5 (http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5)
EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
Court papers say cadaver dog got a hit in #lisairwin home.What does that mean?An expert search dog trainer answers on KCTV5 news at 10.
1 minute ago

they were already setting the kidnapping story up and to do that they needed someone to walk different streets carrying the baby and hopefully a person or 2 would see them but wouldnt be close enough to give a description of the guy.

Wonder if they can get the time of death by dna evidence from the home? If so how it will fit with the timeline of the man walking w the baby w dangly arm leg. I think debbies older brother fits that description? Not saying he did it but if his phone txt hers maybe ..

http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5 (http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5)
EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
#lisairwin family at a vigil tonight.They talk about days new developments. @JeaneneKCTV5 has the story and a lot more at 10.
1 minute ago

I agree - if it was innocent then say so; it is like a scene out of Raising Arizona

Sounds possible.

 ::rhino::
It's almost a form letter for defense attys in a high profile case. Lay out how helpful the family has been, state that all the suspect(s) want is the safe return of the missing and lastly, blame the police for not being fair.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

ITA it is strange that the guy in question hasnt opened his mouth yet.
Thats why I say that it might of been the brother or friend carrying Lisa after Lisa was "killed",
Another thing that is strange is there was no pictures of baby Lisa after she turned around 8 months old, why bring out pictures of a 3 to 6 month old, babies change from day to day.













]

Serenity - would you please just hit  quote or reply when you post?  Thanks!   ::piggy::

Well, they were cooperative. Sort of. Look why LE needed the search warrant:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12213.msg1480448#msg1480448
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129
 ::snipping2::
The court document also indicated that Lisa's parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, restricted police access to the home.

"The only areas extensively processed for DNA and fingerprints during the consent were the baby's bedroom and possible points of entry," the document states.

"The extent of the search had been limited in nature with consent" of the parents, police stated in the request for the search warrant.

The cadaver dog that searched the home on Oct. 17 with the parents' agreement "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed," the affidavit stated. The consistency and accuracy of cadaver dogs has been challenged in past cases.

The police request for the warrant said, "A more extensive and intrusive search needs to be completed at the property where the baby was last accounted."  ::snipping2::

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/local_news/how-significant-is-k9-hit-in-irwin-case#ixzz1bTIoTsfO
How significant is K9 'hit' in Irwin case?
Posted: 8:29 PM
Last Updated: 17 minutes ago

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - What does a “positive hit” by an FBI cadaver dog inside the home of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin mean for investigators?

Monday, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s parents, allowed an FBI K-9 evidence response dog inside the family’s home. That dog found something significant . According to a search warrant request, the dog indicated a “positive hit for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley’s bedroom near the bed.”

“The dogs are, in most cases, they’re very, very accurate at what they uncover, whether it’s a body, the scent of a decomposing body, whether it’s a live scent of a person,” said Jeff Lanza, a retired FBI agent. “(The dogs) are very accurate in uncovering those things.”

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/local_news/how-significant-is-k9-hit-in-irwin-case#ixzz1bTKvwxGh

Exactly, Muffy!  ::rhino::

Thanks, Miss Bee!

I thought the baby might be dead (the one not crying at 4 am in the cold in a diaper) and when I heard the descritption it reminded me of when I was 14, the 10 mos old I baby sat was killed when a stroller hit his car, when we arrived at the seen the paramedics were picking him up and I knew he was dead, he was limp and his legs were dangling.....that story made my mind go back 27 yrs and the first thought in my head was, dead baby :( Or, drugged BIG time...

Thanks Klaas - facinating and devistating; Poor baby Lisa

It can't be ruled out that this was a fake story.

http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5 (http://twitter.com/#!/EricKCTV5)
EricKCTV5 Eric Chaloux
The NY lawyer for family of #lisairwin speaks out on cadaver dog hit. More at 10 and on KCTV5.com
4 minutes ago

https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5 (https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5)
NimaKCTV5 Nima Shaffe
INTERACTIVE TIMELINE for #LisaIrwin: Details in the search for missing baby #LisaIrwin - #KCTV5: bit.ly/oGyJ67 (http://bit.ly/oGyJ67) via @AddThis
11 minutes ago
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15740872/timeline-detailing-the-search-for-missing-baby-lisa-irwin#.TqIrE37fRRc.twitter
TIMELINE: Details in the search for missing baby Lisa Irwin

Aww that's sad I'm sorry that happened and you saw that :(  just imagining that story makes my stomach week.
 I hope they find out who it was carrying the baby and that thy find Lisa soon

One thing to remember is that the information (dog "hit", soil turned, etc...) in the Warrant is based on information that was gathered on Monday, the 17th of October, when they brought the dogs and searched the home.

The thorough search they did on Wednesday, the 19th of October, was done after LE got  the Warrant approved by the judge.

There is no detail of what they found on the 19th, and if the rug, XRays of the walls, or other things they took got any forensics that can help solve the case.

Just saying.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15768295/family-of-lisa-irwin
Affidavit says cadaver dog indicated positive 'hit' in home
October 21, 2011

 ::snipping2::
"On Oct. 17, 2001 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed," said the affidavit.

Items taken from the home on Wednesday included a comforter, purple shorts, a Disney character shirt, a glow worm toy, a blanket with characters from the movie Cars on it, rolls of tape and a tape dispenser.

The family's lawyer released a new statement Friday, insisting they had nothing to do with the baby's disappearance and chronicling all the ways they've cooperated, including offering DNA samples and consenting to multiple searches.  KCTV5's Betsy Webster tried reaching both NY attorney Joe Tacopina and Kansas City attorney Cynthia Short for a specific response to the new information.  Webster was told a written statement should be coming.

Police said in the affidavit supporting the request for the search warrant that the latest search was so thorough they did not want to run the risk of consent being revoked mid-search.

New York-based attorney Joe Tacopina said his clients are cooperating with police but the Kansas City Police Department said they aren't.
 ::snipping2::
Friday, police warned the public of a website that says its focus is on the baby Lisa case. Police said the website www.lisa-irwin.com is not affiliated with the official investigation, the TIPS Hotline, KCPD or FBI.  They also warn that, while the site says people can leave anonymous tips on it, they believe it is unlikely the submissions are truly anonymous.  Police said that, so far, they have followed up on nearly 700 leads, 65 from outside the metro.
 ::snipping2::

Enjoy the game!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6109/6255565217_b7c3ecda6e_o.gif)

I wonder if Tacopino knew when he signed up for it, that it would turn ugly like it has.

I also wonder who shelled a couple of hundred thousand dollars to help the parents beat the rap.

Sung to the tune of the Village People Song "Macho Man"....
Taco, taco man
I've got to be, a taco man
taco, taco man (yeah, yeah)
I've got to be a taco!

JoeT is doing this for one reason, publicity! 

ITA   ::rhino::

Ditto!  ::rhino::   ::rhino::

Personally, I think he and Baez should open a partnership.
The "Profit From Victims" firm.

Hi all monkeys
What time the mom went to the grocery store? i think the baby was unattendant and she died by an accident.

I wonder if they brought in another cadaver dog to see if that one hits also?

Well, this news of a dog hitting on decomp smell could explain some things.....                            1. JI's early comment about not wanting to interfere with the investigation by going to police station while DB was being questioned.  2. The interaction between the parents.  He seems to be uncomfortable around her.  She seems to be looking for him to defend her.  3. He parents abandoning the home immediately.

Around 4:40 tp 5ish, Lisa was supposely being watched by the father along with her brothers, He left at 5:20 to go to work DB puts Lisa to bed at around 6:40 then starts drinking (which I agree with several here that I dont buy her drunk story) I think she might of had 1 or 2 but I woud bet she didnt have many more then that. Cause she would of had to of known when she put the boys to bed and she went to bed to be accurate with the neighbor she was drinking with

Two thoughts:

Does the description of the man scene at 12:30 am and at 4:00 am carrying the baby (both sighting by different people with basically the same description of the man), does that description of a male around 5 ft 8 in and 140-150 lbs. meet the description of Deb's brother?

Could someone have died in the house before baby Lisa's parents moved in the home and that would have been the smell that the dogs hit on?

Puzzler by my understanding when they bring in the dogs, they smell something personal of the victim's like a favorite blanket ,shirt they had on recently etc the dog will only track that scent of that person no matter if 5 people had died in the house,and while they are tracking that scent if they hit up on the death smell then they alert, I am also sure they brought more dogs in yesterday when they were doing the house they asked news crews not to photograph the dogs or tape the dogs.

I personally think someone did carry baby Lisa around in different areas that night but only after she was killed, and this was to start the kidnapping theory up. And I would say it was Lisa's Brother or a friend of his or maybe even a friend of DB. Now this is MOO.

HOLD on to your PANTIES girls......
I thought I had seen it all....rofl. We need an icon thingy for this guy ::MonkeyHaHa::

 http://www.myspace.com/alonzo_washington/blog/544586077 (http://www.myspace.com/alonzo_washington/blog/544586077)
 ::snipping2::

October 21, 2011

Press Release/Baby Lisa Irwin Case Breaking tip:

KC,

I am pretty sure that the local press are going to try to leave all of my efforts out that helped make tips come in about the Baby Lisa Irwin case. I wonder will the national media do the same thing. My tips led to the big breaks in the Baby Lisa Irwin case & I think that the press & cops are not going to give me any credit like they always do. It's not easy being a Black crime fighter. Why do these people work so hard to cover up the truth? For news sources that are about the truth read this press release.

Peace,

Alonzo Washington
(913) 321-6764


PRESS RELEASE
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Topic: Activist's social media tips program turned up major evidence that may help solve the Baby Lisa Irwin case!

The big tip in the Baby Lisa case that led to a major search of the home of Baby Lisa Irwin has checked out. FOX NEWS is reporting that police dogs detected a scent of a dead human on the floor of Baby Lisa's parents room in the home. Activist, Alonzo Washington sent the Tips Hotline a tip asking them to re-search the home of Baby Lisa. The crime solving activist has been blogging about the case & asking for tips since the mystery begun. The KCPD contacted the local crime fighter to make sure that he was sharing all of his information & tips about the case with the police during the first week of the case.
Activist, Alonzo Washington contacted the Tips Hotline with what he described as the case breaking tip to have the police do a better search of the Irwin family home on Saturday 10-15-2011. He told them that the dogs may not have picked up the baby's scent for electrician reasons. However, the police scent dogs had never entered the property before his tip. The following Monday 10-17-2011 the dogs were dispatched to the home & picked up the scent of a dead human. Then on Tuesday 10-18-2011 the POLICE CAME BACK WITH A SEARCH WARRANT. The police found fleshly turned dirt like the activist asked the police to check for. The Police & FBI also found the shorts of the child that she was described to be wearing the night her mother put her to sleep.
The persistent anti-crime activist helped the KCMO Police Department & the FBI get the big break in the Baby Lisa Irwin missing child case. The FBI told the press that the major search was not prompted by a tip. However, that clearly is not true. Read the tip that activist, Alonzo Washington sent to the detective (Kevin Boehm) who is over the Tips Hotline & his response. The detective told Mr. Washington that he would forward the tip to the command post. Will the press lie once again about a big tip that Activist Alonzo Washington generated to help local law enforcement solve another criminal case? Mr. Washington will be at the crime scene of Baby Lisa's home to do more Youtube videos about the case in the near future. To reach him call: (913) 321-6764


Det. Kevin Boehm:
I received a tip that may be the case breaking tip. I have taken some time to research the possibility of the tip. It checks out. The tip states that Baby Lisa is in the home or on the property of 3620 Lister. I know that your people have searched that location. However, you have not search it the way it needs to be searched. In obtaining this tip I assumed that my source was of the same occupation of Baby Lisa's dad. After questioning him & doing some research about electricians. I learned a lot about their duties. They are known to read blue prints, they work with metals & plastic boxes & they go inside of walls houses on a regular basis. This would give them a great ability to hide a small body like a infant in places that most people could not find it. My tips are saying this child may inside the septic tank of the home or inserted in the walls of the home in a metal box or plastic box. If this is true the wiring, water & chemicals could have put your police dogs off of the scent of the baby. My tipsters are saying if this home & yard was taken apart like the other home you all searched the baby would be recovered. Electricians are also skilled in digging trenches. That's why the yard should be dug up also. I know that fire fighter have equipment that can see through walls. Perhaps, your department could get them to use that device to help locate boxes in the walls of the home. I also checked the stats of mothers killing their children by flushing them down the toilet. It was amazedly high. That's why the septic tank tip could be real. I also thought this tip could be real because the parents never wanted to return to the crime scene. Could that be guilt? Maybe, they can't stomach being where the slain child is. The parents have never asked the public to bring the baby home. They have always said drop it off somewhere safe. Fire Station, Church, etc. Could they be suggesting that their home is not safe. All of this makes me think that this tip may be very credible. I have been checking out all of my tips. THIS ONE SEEMS TO MAKE THE MOST SENSE. That's why I have sent it to you. I will also forward this to Major Hundley after I send it to you first. I think if the police would take Baby Lisa's home apart they will find her.

Regards,

Alonzo Washington
(913) 321-6764


 ::snipping2::

I believe dogs are trained to detect different things.

Scent dogs are trained for search for a person's scent - items worn by that person are normally used.

Cadeaver dogs are trained to detect human decomp.

It's being reported that the dogs in this search detected human decomp. 

The dogs cannot detect that it is human decomp from Lisa.  Just that it's human decomp.

Scent dogs can detect Lisa's scent - but they cannot detect human decomp.

One or the other.

 ::MonkeyJnBox:: Just jumping in here.....This story is about 20 minutes away from me, if there is anything any monkey would like for me to do or check out, just let me know.

http://www.omega7.com/html/AlonzoBio.html

http://www.pitch.com/plog/archives/2008/11/13/stealing-time-midtown-miscreant-vs-alonzo-washington-arrowhead-addict-vs-jopo-and-big-sexy-life-in-sojoco-vs-toplikar (http://www.pitch.com/plog/archives/2008/11/13/stealing-time-midtown-miscreant-vs-alonzo-washington-arrowhead-addict-vs-jopo-and-big-sexy-life-in-sojoco-vs-toplikar)

(http://www.pitch.com/imager/stealing-time-midtown-miscreant-vs-alonzo-washington-arrowhead-addict-vs/b/original/2577306/0f29/alonzo.jpg)

Hi KCJackie - what is your opinion on this case?

maybe you could check on Deb, she might be out of wine again..... ::MonkeyDevil:: (I am sorry, I couldn't resist)

Hi klaas, truthfully I don't know much about it.  It's been a crazy couple of weeks for me.  Trying to catch up here. ::MonkeyWink::

well, with this new development I hate to say it but I believe this is another case of parent killing their child, getting rid of the body and yelling"kidnapper"  and its guys like Taco and Biaz that makes these parents think they can actually get away with it, and because of these two dirt bags several already have gotten away with it, its dicusting how they have no feeling for these poor children, they are only interested in jumping into the lime light and getting their name in headlines, they honestly make me sick, I shall pray that little Lisa's body will be found soon and her parents, whichever is guilty, is arrested and made to pay for whatever they did to this sweet baby girl!!!!:'(.........poor poor babies.....

Lol, she is sickening isn't she?

They live so close to the Missouri river, unfortunately lots of bodies have been found there.  Every time I go over the bridge I wonder how many more are in there.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Just flying by and reading. The Ohio weather is killing my sinuses.

RE: Alonzo.....MOO ~ these child cases
seem to bring out all kinds of weirdos !

What do they do to occupy themselves "between" cases ? LOL  ::MonkeyMad::

Next time I feel "bad" I am going to drink wine, & plead the 5th !  ::MonkeyCheer4::

Yuknowmenot??????  Do you live close by?

Yes, I am in JoCo

What's your opinion?

I think DB is responsible.  Big question for me is accidentally or intentionally, but I am leaning towards the latter.  I am also beginning to think she might have had "professional" help after the fact.  How familiar are you with the history of that part of town and the inhabitants of KC North?

Just a little....anything in particular that your thinking? ::MonkeyKiss::

Or the person who helped DB didn't have a vehicle.

Maybe  ::MonkeyCool::.  You ever hear any rumors of tunnels under houses up there?  A comment made to me early on about the appearance of a family member along with some background on tacoJoe that Kermit posted a couple days back and the mention in the news that it was a family connection that brought both Stanton and tacoJoe to town has me wondering.  It seems so far-fetched, but nothing can be ruled out at this point.

 ::MonkeyWink:: Ohhhhh, I will have to check that out - I wondered how taco got involved so fast - makes sense now.  I'll go back and find Kermits post!!  I really have only seen about 20 minutes total news on this - will have to check out some family member pics.

I will watch for your take on it! Here is a link to a reply I made to him http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12176.msg1478725#msg1478725 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12176.msg1478725#msg1478725) I have to run now, I am exhausted.

 ::MonkeyJnBox::

 ::MonkeyDance::

That song is gonna be stuck in my head all night!

1. Find baby Lisa
2. Slap DB
3. Check if JI has a pulse

A few things to remember so the media spin isn't blinding:
1) Cadaver dogs have a 10-20% false positive rate even in ideal circumstances,
2) Cadaver dogs will also hit scent of menstrual blood,
3) If amount of cadaver dog reaction was a sure thing, Madeline McCann's parents would have been put away a long time ago,
4) Neither dogs nor polygraphs are anything resembling reliable - at best, they might suggest a useful avenue of investigation to pursue; at worst, they're a red-herring that wastes a lot of time

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/21/ddhln.01.html
DR. DREW
Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dog`s Positive `Hit`; Conrad Murray Courtroom Drama; Sex in Church
Aired October 21, 2011 - 21:00   ET
 ::snipping2::
PINSKY: You know, I mentioned a couple of nights ago that more to be revealed on this case. I just get the sense of real chaos here. And, again, substances, chaos, vortex, sounds familiar, doesn`t it? It`s like Casey Anthony all over again. We expect lies, distortion, and may be what we`re going to get here.
 ::snipping2::

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 ::MonkeyEek::

Judge Jeanine Pirro Is Live in Kansas City, Missouri With the Latest on Baby Lisa Irwin..

The search for Baby Lisa continues and Judge Jeanine Pirro is live at the crime scene with insight, analysis and the latest in the investigation.

Plus, body language expert Tonya Reiman looks at Baby Lisa’s parents and reveals what they aren’t telling.

Catch a must-see Justice with Judge Jeanine, tonight at 9p ET.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/22/judge-jeanine-pirro-is-live-in-kansas-city-missouri-with-the-latest-on-baby-lisa-irwin/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FoxNewsInsider+%28Fox+News+Insider%29

Good morning Monkeys---

Thank you Starshadow for pointing all of this out.  The people on cable news channels have practically become hysterical about the so-called "Hit."  Personally, I doubt that it means anything.  I believe that LE doesn't have a clue and wants to pin this on someone---anyone---just to give the impression that they are doing something. It wouldn't be the first time that this has been done.  I don't think this will ever be solved and I don't think that that precious baby will ever be found. It's going to be exactly like the Aisenberg case, IMO. Likely, Deborah will be accused and arrested on flimsy evidence.  Something like a wiretap transcript saying, "I do fear you have harmed our little baby daughter,"  just like the Aisenbergs, where a judge threw the whole thing out and could hardly keep from laughing at the ridiculous "evidence." The thought that anyone would be so willing to help dispose of a dead baby boggles the mind.  Walking down the street carrying a dead baby is even more mind boggling. Involving oneself in such a conspiracy is a hard one to swallow. I note that another day has passed and Deborah hasn't been arrested. So much for "gut" predictions. As for Deborah being connected to the Mafia, well, what can I say?

The CSI death dogs: Sniffing out the truth behind the crime-scene canines
In one study involving four dogs and their handlers, Jacobi says the dogs were able to detect remains at all stages of decomposition. Performance varied between dogs, but some could locate skeletonised remains buried in an area of 300ft by 150ft. "The few single human vertebrae I used in the study were well over 25 years old, and dry bone," Jacobi says. "This made the discovery of one of these vertebrae, which we buried in dense woods 2ft deep, by a cadaver dog pretty remarkable." ::snipping2::
http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

 ::MonkeyCheer4::
I'm in JoCo too. Alonzo Washington is crying because he never gets any credit. Boo hoo. What about Lisa? Finding her is more important than Alonzo's "credit."

but some could locate skeletonised remains buried in an area of 300ft by 150ft. "The few single human vertebrae I used in the study were well over 25 years old, and dry bone," Jacobi says. "This made the discovery of one of these vertebrae, which we buried in dense woods 2ft deep, by a cadaver dog pretty remarkable."
http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44992690/ns/today-today_news/t/cadaver-dog-has-hit-inside-baby-lisas-home/#.TqLAM7I2yuI
updated 10/21/2011 9:52:15 PM ET
 ::snipping2::
The affidavit stated that an FBI cadaver dog taken into the house Monday indicated a "positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

The FBI dogs, which often are used at both disaster and crime scenes, are trained "specially to recognize the scent of decaying, decomposing human flesh," retired FBI special agent Jeff Lanza said Friday.

"That can be the scent of an actual body decomposing, or residual scents after the body is no longer there," Lanza said.

But Joe Tacopina, lawyer for the parents, told The Associated Press late Friday he considers the report meaningless. Tacopina noted that cadaver dogs are trained to detect decomposing flesh — and even if the baby had died, decomposition could not have happened so quickly.
 ::snipping2::

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lisa-irwin-parents-home-searched-14792120
Lisa Irwin Parents' Home Searched
Suspicious evidence is found in the bedroom of Lisa Irwin's parents.
02:52 | 10/22/2011

The houses with the underground tunnels are North from the Irwins - in Sherwood Estates. 

New blog article at The Hinky Meter:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/22/lisa-irwin-case-search-warrant-and-people-details/

Lisa Irwin case: Search warrant and People details

Posted on October 22, 2011 by Valhall

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/
Lisa Irwin case: Search warrant and People details
Posted on October 22, 2011 by Valhall

Cadaver dogs, how reliable are they at detecting death?
http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/

Tacopina is an idiot.  Temp in KC Missouri on that day/night was fairly warm outside and no telling how warm inside the house:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMKC/2011/10/4/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMKC/2011/10/4/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6269247260_3a10bc2d55_o.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition)

 ::snipping2::
Once the heart stops, chemical changes occur within the body and result in changes in pH, causing cells to lose their structural integrity. The loss of cell structure brings about the release of cellular enzymes capable of initiating the breakdown of surrounding cells and tissues. This process is known as autolysis. Visible changes caused by decomposition are limited during the fresh stage, although autolysis may cause blisters to appear at the surface of the skin.[7]
 ::snipping2::


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cadaver-dog.htm (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cadaver-dog.htm)

 ::snipping2::

In addition to being used to find whole bodies, cadaver dogs are also trained to react to any trace of human remains. This can be very useful in crime investigations, because a cadaver dog can indicate that a cadaver was in a particular location at one point, even if it is no longer there, and these dogs can also find traces of bodies which criminals attempted to conceal by destroying the evidence.

hi all jokes aside,would you know which starbucks is getting a rewire/refurbished
the one JI is working at
TIA

Good morning Monkey's,

Thank-you Muffy and Trimm for posting the October 2, 2011 photos of Baby Lisa.

http://www.kmbc.com/r-slideshow/29423242/detail.html

LI looks healthy, happy, and having fun in these photos. 

I question, if the baby was really sick, (on the following day) she looks in fine form, in the photo's. ::MonkeyTongue::

 

 I wanted to point out that the neighbor that saw the man walking w baby said the baby was ONLY wearing a diaper at 12am the oth guy at 4am just said no blanket coat nothin ..
I havnt seen an artical that he says same thing just DIAPER??

i live in a house where a girl,18 yr of age was murdered,in 98,im the first person
to lease this house since that time,i moved in, in 2002
the owners let it go/moved didnt come back,and a reality co. bought it,refurbed it
new bath,new kit,new flooring,wood and carpet,paint roof furnace,ect.
neighbor told me about it after id leased and moved in
short version,a bloody battle from bedroom,2nd floor to basement,and back to
another bedroom on 2nd floor,the she jumped out a closed window

my Q is could a dog still sniff out decomp at my house

I'd say probably.  Some cadaver dogs are trained to find ancient burial grounds.

TY klaas,creepy,i have a ghost too,he goes in an out of house to the yard with me sometimes
he doesnt talk,just looks at me,when in the yard he goes behind the old shed,i look for him
and he is gone

CW, have you've looked into the history of your house?
Woow, creepy...

Guess we're not getting any updates today you think.....later.
 ::HelloKitty::

That sounds kinda fun!  Next time you sense his presence, just say "Hello!  How ya doin' ?"   Maybe he's a nice ghost.   ::MonkeyCool::

BUMPED

Missing Baby Lisa: Family Attorney Says Cadaver Dogs May be Misleading Officials
Oct. 22, 2011

The search for Lisa Irwin hit closer to home this week as cadaver dogs have picked up the scent of human remains next to the her parent's bed, according to a police affidavit.

But an attorney for the family said following the cadaver dog's nose may be misleading investigators.

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short, in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "This is an old home. 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."

But Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

"In studies done of cadaver dogs where the dog has direct access to the scent and its reasonably fresh - its above 90 percent.

The affidavit, released on Friday, revealed that a cadaver dog searching for evidence for missing the 11-month-old "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed.

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822
 

My hubby had one is old house, they were friendly.It took me a while to get to sleep over ::MonkeyShocked::

That is a real possibility, IMO. The pictures of the birthday party show a smiling Lisa, a happy Lisa. She could've had a cold, and still have fun... but usually a kid who has a cold also has a runny nose, red nose, teary eyes, and a reddish tinge under the eyes.

Maybe the mother told people Lisa had a cold, but maybe Lisa was really hurt. I still can't believe she harmed Lisa before going into the store. Her smile on the surveillance pictures shows a happy Deborah.

Maybe something happened during the day, maybe the mother convinced herself that it was nothing, that Lisa was coming up with a cold and that she would be alright, when in reality Lisa was badly hurt.

Liam Niesen's wife died of a simple hit on the head that seemed like nothing in the beginning. A simple hit on the head can create serious effects on a person, that will develop over hours, even days.

Maybe, maybe, maybe... too many maybes. I just wish Deborah or Jeremy would come out and tell the truth.

Thanks for posting that Janet . I bolded some of the artical above. The couple gives no description of the man ..the oth witness doesn't say if the baby was ONLY in a diaper ..not enough info ..
Plus LE discounted the first sighting wonder why?

Sorry, I was in your box, Phar.
These are my speculation, opinion and wild ideas  ::MonkeyEek::

The evening was chilly, when she was drinking out on the stoop.  Perhaps she began drinking on the front stoop and
then later, took the box over to next door, (about 8:00 pm) when the four year old needed to go to bed.

She stayed a Sippy's, with the baby monitor... This is my guess, opinion what happened on that fateful evening :(

Bottom line, IF you have NOTHING to hide you don't change stories in midstream.
That's what is bothering me from the 3rd day and after of this investigation.

Just hope they find Lisa, so we would know what actually happened.
Also still think the cops should take the dogs to the last sighting of the guy with the baby.

 ::ghost2:: ::MonkeyEek::

n/p sh, u can type in my box.....been there, done that too... ::ghost:: ::MonkeyWitch1::

OT, but since we are at it...

I, too, had a "ghost" in a house I lived in. It would manifest itself at nights, after I turned off the lights and everything was pitch dark and quiet. The three tables in the living room would creek, sometimes all at once, the window curtains would move as if a breeze were blowing on them, but the house was closed. The TV would turn on in channels that had no reception, showing nothing on the screen, then the channels would switch as if someone were channel surfing. There was a small cloud or fog, that moved around the room leaving a moist film on anything it touched.

I thought on moving after three weeks, but I talked to a few people about it. One of them was a Native American guy. He told me he had a similar problem once, and said he would talk to someone about my problem.

So a Saturday morning he shows up with a Native American elder. The elder quickly told me to wait until the ghost manifested itself at night, then yell at the ghost, "I order you to get out!", and mean it. I thought he was joking.

He said that the ghost would listen, and know that I was in charge, that it was my home, and it would leave.

I did this that night, and it worked, the first time.

Of course, at the same time I bought a few night lights and put them in... just in case.

 ::MonkeyWink::

So much for the guy who said it was 45F degrees outside on that Monday night, and the baby had no blanket or coat. ?

I want to know if Deborah took Lisa to the doctor or if she was even giving her some over the counter child's medication.  I somehow doubt that she took the baby to the doctor because if a child has a doctor visit and either dies or goes missing the next day, I think the police would have those records.  I'm really interested to know how she was treating the baby for her cold because a cough in a ten month old should definitely be checked out.

I also want to know who last saw Lisa and when, other than Deborah and Jeremy.  I want to know what the boys say about the last time they saw Lisa.  I don't understand why she is not letting the police interview them again.  The information about when Deborah and Jeremy last saw Lisa is coming from them and I think they are lying - it's been proven with Deborah.  I want to know if any neighbor or drinking buddy saw her that night. 

When Deborah suddenly changed the time she put Lisa to bed from 10:30 to 6:30 I immediately thought "why is she changing the time to subtract 4 hours?"  Maybe it's because no one saw Lisa during that time.

Too many coincidences - Jeremy working at night for the first time, Lisa being sick and "fussy", Deborah buying a box of wine and drinking with the neighbor, Deborah putting the fan on high in her room while her sick infant is in a room clear across the house from her.

At the very least, I think Deborah is one lousy mother.  I also think that the baby was harmed in some way, either accidentally or deliberately.  But for sure, I think these two are lying.

::rhino::

StarMonkey

I am not sure what to make of the observation by these witnesses.

I can't find it but it was my understanding that the neighbors' sighting intitially stated that the man carrying  the baby was black.

Why did the motocycle rider not come forward immediately.

+++++

Witnesses Say They Saw Man Carrying Baby Resembling Lisa Irwin
October 21st, 2011

Around 12:15 am, a couple that lives a few houses away from the family spotted the man and baby. The female witness, who spoke to ABC, said she has been interviewed by police four times about what she saw.

Three miles away and nearly four hours later, around 4 am, Mike Thompson saw a man and baby fitting a similar description at an intersection off I-435. Thompson said the man was 5’7” or 5’8” and probably in his late 30s or early 40s.

Initial media reports about Lisa’s disappearance mentioned that a man and baby had been seen on their street that night, but Thompson did not report his sighting to police until a week later.

A police spokeswoman confirmed Friday that they are still investigating the possible sightings.

<snipped>

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/21/witnesses-say-they-saw-man-carrying-baby-resembling-lisa-irwin/?hpt=ng_mid

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44997964#44997964
Baby Lisa missing two weeks now 10/22/2011

You are right, But she got sippy, involved, prob, Mucho Man, (guess) and now she is in deep doo doo.  How many people are involved, in this cover-up?

She screwed-up.  Why did the dip-stick, husband (J.I.) go along with this?  He thought he would lose custody of his son, perhaps, if it was believed that his partner (DB) was neglectful.

IMO

what do you guys think of the "man walking a baby in a diaper" report?  legit?  (by the way I think Devil-rah did something definitely)  If the reports are legitimate and there was someone walking around at 4am with a baby barely dressed even it was much warmer than the attorney reported why hasn't he or someone he knows come forward saying "no not Lisa"? Embarrassed?  I don't know something about the couple a few houses down & the motorcyclist 3 miles away seeing that just doesn't ring true to me.  Why would a kidnapper walk in plain site with the baby not even wrapped up?   I can't imagine some idiot kidnapper just walking down the street with the baby for anyone passing by to see.  It's not like it is an extremely secluded area. Geez I don't know ........this case is causing me just as much stress as CA and though the circumstances are different I am feeling a sense of deja vu here.

Rambling Thoughts

1.  Starbucks security cameras provide an alibi for Jeremy who worked night shift for THE FIRST TIME and arrived home prior to the end of his shift.

2.  A neighbor provides an alibi for Debbie ... an inebriated Debbie who was not in any condition at 10:30 PM to have the mindset to disappear her daughter and the cellphones ... a Debbie who turned off the lights in the home prior to retiring.

Inquiring minds want to know ... when was the last time that ANYBODY seen baby Lisa?

Inquiring minds want to know ... did the neighbor actually see or hear 11 month old baby Lisa who was allegedly put to bed at 6:40 PM ... or could it be that the crib was empty.

In other words ... did something bad happen to baby Lisa prior to Debbie's evening of dringing wine?  Did something bad happen to baby Lisa prior to her father's departure to work?

Could it be that Debbie being captured on security video purchasing wine and diapers was part of a plan to put into play her drinking alibi while giving the impression that baby Lisa had not already met her demise?

Why was a polygraph not requested of Jeremy Irwin?  Jeremy may have an alibi for the night baby Lisa allegedly went missing but ... at the very least ... this guy could have had knowledge and ... at the very most ... he could have been a participant in the demise and the disappearance of his daughter in the hours prior to his departure to work.

A red flag!  Jeremy and Debbie's baby is missing but ... permission to the questioning of baby Lisa's siblings is not afforded.  Could it be that the boys witnessed an unfortunate incident in that household regarding their little sister ... an unfortunate incident that happened ... not during the night but the day before?

wow, do you "sense" him or see him?  I've had a few incidents happen to me over the years that have turned me into a believer.  The most bizarre is my old hovering lady.....All my life people have seen an old woman hovering over me when I sleep (about 15 people in all - some strangers at the time).  I've seen her too.  My husband believes she was looking out for me - I reported my father for molesting foster children when my idiot family wouldn't do anything about it (and still supported him despite the 40+ kids they found).  That was almost twenty years ago and she's only been seen twice since then.  bizarre.    I keep hoping if Lisa is alive she has "someone" watching over her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052198/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Parents-lawyer-hits-cadaver-dogs-reports.html
Smell of death picked up by police cadaver dog could be decades old, says lawyer for Baby Lisa's parents
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 5:12 PM on 22nd October 2011

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052198/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Parents-lawyer-hits-cadaver-dogs-reports.html#ixzz1bWwM5mYs

I agree to all.  There is NO reason why those kids should not be interviewed two three even four times.  There is not an innocent parent alive that wouldn't give their kids a big kiss & hug & say thank you for talking to the police just tell them the truth no matter what.  Not one innocent parent.  Guilty parents are a different story.

could they be hiding something that one of the older kids did?  Hit her or something?

http://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/boomframe.jsp?query=hinky+meter&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3Dac0973d63c94d9f4%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3Dhinky%2Bmeter%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.thehinkymeter.com%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSISPResultsT%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thehinkymeter.com%2F

Lisa Irwin case: Search warrant and People details

Vals latest on Baby Lisa

Ruling out nothing, I will search outside the box.

Can we assume JL belongs to the electrician's union? Was this night work at Starbucks a union job or under the table, making a few quick bucks? Wonder who owns that particular Starbucks. How long ago had that job been scheduled? Did JL finish the job quicker than anticipated and that is why he was home early? What time does Starbucks open? He had to finish before opening for the day.

Was this a one night job? Were other electricians working on this job? ANYone there that night other than JL? How do they describe his work and his behavior. Was he in a rush to get finished and get home?

How many dumpsters line the route from home to Starbucks?

Has JL done work for Starbucks before?

Here Vallhal says Jeremy was in a job he was supposed to be done at 10:00 pm
I'm not sure if he was on service calls? Or assigned jobs .. good questions
 http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/22/lisa-irwin-case-search-warrant-and-people-details/#more-8239

I believe LE has footage from Starbucks showing him working the time he said he was at that Starbucks. 

It's my opinion the 'baby' sighted was not 'wrapped up' so anyone seeing them would be sure to report a 'baby'...  Why?  Wow...  Too many possibilities to list. 

Also - do we even know it was a baby? Or a doll?

~ fanta

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/22/lisa-irwin-case-search-warrant-and-people-details/#more-8239

Lisa Irwin case: Search warrant and People details

Val's latest

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/132368633.html?cmpid=15585797
Posted on Sat, Oct. 22, 2011
Police: Cadaver dog 'hit' at missing baby's home
HEATHER HOLLINGSWORTH
The Associated Press
(http://media.philly.com/images/300*416/42568bc4-b5a2-4fbc-9f60-ddf8bd58fabc.jpg)
Orlin Wagner
A Kansas City Police crime scene investigator carries items from the home of missing baby Lisa Irwin in Kansas City, Mo., Wednesday, Oct. 19, 2011. (AP Photo/Orlin Wagner)
KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Police say an FBI cadaver dog reacted to the scent of a dead person inside the Kansas City home where a baby girl disappeared nearly three weeks ago, and investigators discovered soil in the backyard that had been "recently disturbed or overturned," according to a released court document.

The affidavit, released Friday after being filed earlier this week in support of a search warrant targeting the family's home, also stated that the girl's mother, Deborah Bradley, "made the statement she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she `was afraid of what she might find.'"
 ::snipping2::

My 1st thought, why didn't the first hubby just wait and follow him to see if everything was ok.  Or at least talk to him.
People don't want to be involved.....I guess.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

I am not around that often, and am trying my best to keep my distance from this case...but when I am around...I am here reading. Even though I'm not a very faithful poster, I still admire you guys and all that you do.

I don't see how you stand it, and I know without a doubt the only reason you stay with it is because there is a chance you might do some good.

My heart is sick over this child...especially since it's coming on the heels of Caylee, Zahra and many other precious lives that have been so brutally cut short.

I am praying for Lisa and also all of you, because anyone who can do this day to day deserves prayers and praise.

I am literally shaking all over as I type this...I have no idea why it is affecting me this way. This isn't a healthy frame of mind, but I just can't seem to overcome it. Peace to you all and God Bless.

My Blog:
http://moonsmuse.blogspot.com/

I don't think so.  There was a baby obviously at risk.

If I were to see a man walking down iye street in the middle of the night in 42 degree temperature carrying an unclothed baby ... I probably would never suspect any wrongdoing but ... I would definitely know that something was wrong and ... doing something to assist would be my first reaction.

Janet

lye stree s/b our street

(http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/10/17/15/10/8Qb3G.St.81.jpg)
Slip of tongue or attorney-client privlege?
“These are two parents who are grieving every day over the loss of their daughter,” he [Joe Tacopina]said.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/17/3212350/mother-tells-today-show-she-was.html

Fort Bragg case offers eerie parallels to Lisa Irwin's disappearance
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3222111/case-offers-eerie-parallels.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3222111/case-offers-eerie-parallels.html)

 ::snipping2::



Hmmmm...

thank u for stopping by - every prayer helps those who need it

Oct. 2nd baby seen in photos at grandparents house
Oct 3rd - Lisa, who will turn 1 on Nov. 11, has not been seen since Monday, Oct. 3.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/lisa-irwin-family-to-hold-230-pm-news-conference#ixzz1bXjBsoED
Oct. 4th baby reported kidnapped


She said she didn't have more than 10 glasses. Bradley said she frequently drinks heavily at home but only after her children are safely in bed. She also said she takes anxiety medication and had taken a dose that day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/baby-lisa-irwins-parents-joe-tacopina_n_1016594.html

this better not be a post-partum depression defense

jtacopina@tacopinalaw.com
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7363.1620

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I wonder what size (how many ozs.) the glass she was drinking wine from was?  Was she drinking from a wine glass that held 5 ounces?  Was she drinking from a larger glass?  Is she saying she knocked back an amount of wine that would equal 2 bottles of wine?  And what about mixing her anti depressant meds with all the alchohol?  Does that dilute or enhance the anti -depressant? 

http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/Health-QA-How-Many-Ounces-is-a-Glass-of-Wine_3588
Robert J. Mills, of the American Medical Association, reports that in the United States, the medical community generally accepts these guidelines outlined by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention: "A standard drink is any drink that contains about half an ounce (13.7 grams or 1.2 tablespoons) of pure alcohol. Generally, this amount of pure alcohol is found in 5 ounces of wine." To put this in perspective, since a bottle of wine is 750ml, or 25 ounces, there are around 5 glasses of wine in a bottle.

This video must be when Jeremy and Deborah sped away after this. Jeremy looks distraught!
 http://m.bing.com:80/videos/watch?v=5a05737d-df60-4409-a394-61c7d730c273&mid=10006&form=VDXVAR

If you hit the back key after video theres more videos . One with the black car was Oct 7 I think.. parents were not coop would not talk to media. Jeremy sister made a statement Oct 6 or 7 For the family saying that they are cooperating. I don't believe they have since the 6th..

The link wouldn't work for me

I apologize if this has been posted already but here's a informative article about cadaver dogs:
http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/ (http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/)

Sorry maybe because of app on my phone it worked for me.
I found another link
 http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DU5oPk8ebfLw&v=U5oPk8ebfLw&gl=US

Wildingheart, I just came back here recently myself since the Caylee Anothony case. I finally found the strength, even though I am still not completely over it. I cannot understand what is wrong with the world when parents not only kill their children, but it's worse to know Casey is walking free. Anyway, I just wanted to respond and say that I am glad you chimed in. :-)

I, too, wonder if it was a real baby or a doll that was seen out in the cold.  If it was a real baby, was the baby drugged so as not to cry in that cold?

Also, I would have thought police could speak with the two brothers without parental consent.  Seems totally odd to me that they can't.

Video at link shows footage from last night's prayer vigil.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15768295/family-of-lisa-irwin
Affidavit says cadaver dog indicated positive 'hit' in home
Posted: Oct 21, 2011 1:12 PM CDT Updated: Oct 21, 2011 6:12 PM CDT



(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/thumb/10/29417453850.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/514422/4805959)

(http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/thumb/10/29417551615.png) (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/514444/9959862)

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/nationworld/sns-rt-us-crime-baby-missingtre79l22f-20111022,0,3176654.story
Attorney discounts cadaver dog's alert in missing baby probe
Reuters
5:13 p.m. CDT, October 22, 2011
KANSAS CITY, Mo (Reuters) - A lawyer for parents of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin downplayed on Saturday the significance of a cadaver dog's alert that may have signified the scent of a dead body in the Irwin home.

Court documents showed on Friday that an FBI cadaver dog had picked up the scent of a deceased person in the bedroom of Deborah Bradley, the mother of the missing Missouri baby, earlier in the week.

Lawyer Cyndy Short told ABC's "Good Morning America" in an interview aired Saturday that smells from a dead body can remain in a location for many years.

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," Short told "Good Morning America."

"This is an old home, 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."
 ::snipping2::

Since Le took the bedroom carpet, I'm sure they can get dna from it and find out who's it is.
Did the wide mom give samples to do dna testing to the police?
 ::monkeywine2::

yep, look at the toddler hit & run video from China - I cried when I watched the video & even more when I found out she died.

You know I"m doubting whether they really saw what they're reporting.  I know in our neighborhood people were reporting kids in tshirts in the late fall running in streets.  I even saw them.  Turned out to be deer but because there were no street lights I saw them too & "assumed" it was kids.  yep we're all idiots lol

HI Stayhomemommy, me too.  I had to stop watching the news I was so upset (still am) and disgusted with our justice system as well as parents.  Heck my own mother had to have known her husband was molesting foster children in their house.  Two kids told her.  I even told her and she refused to believe it.  Some people are just evil and some people are too weak to do anything about it.  It just infuriates those of us who are on the right "side". Nice to see your post (again)

Beth, nice to see you, too. Yes, yes. I even downgraded my satelitte service so I don't even get headline news anymore. I just cannot follow anything as closely as I did the CA case. It is shocking how many people won't believe (or don't want to believe) when they are confronted with so much evidence (as in the case of your mother, so sorry, by the way). I had friend from junior high school who was being molested, and no one believed her, even the school counselors, for a LONG time. Finally, one believed her, and she got out. But went into foster care where she was further abused. It's awful. Just awful.

Bumping for a reminder.

 ::snipping2::

The argument already concocted by attorneys claim that scent dogs can hit on human decomposition as old as 28 years. That is quite true, attesting to the credibility of the use of these exceptional canines. However, these dogs are also trained to smell even the skin particles in the air.

Even though the home, which is 64-years old, could be the setting for crimes almost 30-years ago, it doesn't change the fact that this is an investigation and the dogs did in fact hit to the scent of a dead body. Furthermore, it isn't always "decomposition" that these dogs hit on -- not in the sense of a literally rotting body. Dead skin particles begin to decompose immediately and a dog's keen sense of smell picks this up with no problem.

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474980637561

Thanks for that info, although as I understand it the tunnel usage involved several neighborhoods.  Also that they were mainly used to avoid surveillance.

maybe the baby was already dead. If that day was cold why the man only had a t-shirt and not a jacket? it can be possible that they took off lisa's clothes and hide them somewhere before to dispposed her body.

If the baby was in fact Lisa, why would anyone carry her out in the open?  How hard would it have been to toss a towel or pillow case over her or something?  It's not making sense to me.  It would take only one reliable person to witness this, if it were Lisa being carried.  Why risk it? 

Has anyone seen how long after death until a body gives off scent that he dogs can detect?
o/t for stayathomemommy and the rest of he cableless,most news channel links here work;
http://worldtvsite.net/usa.html
 

Watching it now, between claps of thunder and lightning.

If the baby was a dead Lisa, it is obvious that they didn't have a car. Propably they didn't want to connect anything with the house (plastic bags, towels, etc) if police find Lisa body....  I believe to carry a plastic bag with a body in it will look very suspicious if somebody see them walking early in the morning.

I agree with the discussion regarding weight given to decision to tell the world about drinking and not having a clue whether or not DB even checked on Lisa. "She is lying for a reason."

I think it's wied in the middle of the night too....Life is sure stranger then fiction.
Why would ANYONE do that???    ::MonkeyShocked::

I'm bringing this over, in case someone missed it from the previous thread:

Just thinking.... but if God forbid I found my baby dead by accident or negligance and panicked then decided to stage a kidnapping I would think that I would probably wrap/swaddle my baby in one of her blankets.

I put some maps in the map thread..

Thank you JG

YW MuffyBee..

 ::ghost2::
Maybe thy thought no one would see them?

If the dumpster fire had anything to do with it (which i think it did)maybe?
What would they have burned?
The dumpster fire was over an hour b4 Jeremy called 911 (he said he didn't witness anything)Wierd.
LE searched area 4 times near the dumpster and 3 at the landfill.

If I remember correctly, the search turned up Lisa's purple shorts. That might explain the "nothing but a diaper" theory. DB said Lisa was wearing the purple shorts that last time she saw her. Wonder why a baby would sleep in uncomfortable clothing instead of pajamas/sleepers?

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/22/3223385/prayers-continue-for-baby-lisa.html#ixzz1bZDgeEpt
Posted on Sat, Oct. 22, 2011 08:29 PM
Prayers continue for missing infant Lisa Irwin

In a circle around the front yard flagpole on North Lister Avenue early this evening, supporters of missing baby Lisa Irwin prayed once again for her family and for Lisa’s safe return.

About 20 people held hands and sang Kumbaya, swaying to the tune and the words, “someone’s crying, Lord” and “someone’s praying, Lord.”

“I picked those verses of the song because we’re all praying and we’re all crying,” said Edith Fine-Duskin, who led the group. She said those who gather every night in front of the Irwin home consider themselves “Baby Lisa’s angels.”

“If you can’t be here, we ask that you say a prayer every night from wherever you are,” Fine-Duskin said.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/22/3223385/prayers-continue-for-baby-lisa.html#ixzz1bZHRYyFc

I am speechless after listening to Taco and Meathead on Justice with Judge Jeanine.. ::MonkeyNoNo::

And the carpet is 63 years old?  I don't think so.  Perhaps below the carpet, but they took the carpet.

I was searching a little looking for recent news from today on baby Lisa, when I came across this article

Geraldo on Search for Baby Lisa Irwin: “It’s Virtually Impossible This Is Not an Inside Job”
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/14/geraldo-on-search-for-baby-lisa-irwin-%e2%80%9cit%e2%80%99s-virtually-impossible-this-is-not-an-inside-job%e2%80%9d/

Wonder if he is trying to redeem himself after CA  ::boxinggeraldo2::

Who has a 63 yr old carpet!? Wow!

 ::MonkeyJnBox::      All we need now is Geraldo.   

Besides that house was built it 1958 he calc wrong.
You would think that thy can tell if its that old?

When you see the pic of it doesn't look stained on bottem?

He's shrewdly changing positions for the camera.  What is so galling to me is his smugness.

No-o-o-o-o!!!   Not him!   I expect him any time, though.   ::boxinggeraldo2::

Well looks like he has started talking about the case, and doesnt sound like its for the parents side either i just couldnt take reading anything that person says since CA's case  But looks like hes here

O/T...

Posted: Oct 22, 2011 9:45 PM EDT Updated: Oct 22, 2011 10:46 PM EDT
Posted by Jessica Turri

DOVER, TN (WSMV) -

Police in Stewart County are searching for a missing 5 year old boy who was last seen playing outside near his home around 4:30 p.m.

Officials say Aidan Bennett was last seen near the 900 block of Link Road in Dover.

He has dirty blond hair, weighs 35 lbs., and was last seen wearing a blue and black long sleeve shirt, dark brown windbreaker pants, and no shoes.

Anyone with  information is urged to call the Stewart County Sheriff's Department at 931-232-5322.

http://www.wsmv.com/story/15786451/police-seraching-for-missing-boy

LOL - he's timing his appearances I bet - waiting to spring!   Can our nerves take it is the big question.

I'm still going with the two half brothers of Lisa's know the missing puzzle pieces.

I also tend to discount the validity of the "stranger carrying baby down the street in the night" stories.  Maybe these are
mis-guided friends of the Irwins trying to bolster the kidnapping scenario thinking they are helping ???

Actual scientific study regarding cadaver dogs here: http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/HRD/Oesterhelweg%201998.pdf

Accuracy varies from 75%-90%... meaning if this were a real-life situation, 10-25% of the time, the dog would be wrong.

And there's potentially far greater dog error in real-life situations, because in the study, the dogs only had two possibilities - scented-with-dead-person, or not-scented-with-dead-person.

There *are* other scents that yes, the dogs will smell - and they will give a false "positive" for, just as if they *were* smelling a decomposed body. Menstrual blood is one of these things. In that case, the dog isn't wrong - it IS identifying a scent. It's just close enough to what they've been taught to seek that they cannot differentiate.

I'd be curious to see real-life statistics of how often a hit is confirmed to be a true hit; problem is, law enforcement won't permit that to happen. They'd claim secrecy was necessary to preserve cases, of course, but really, they just wouldn't want to lose the power to pressure via public belief in questionable "science".

I agree.. Who is going to kidnap a child and be walking down a street with a child dressed in just a diaper in plain sight....

Thanks Jersey~
Good news for a change:
FOUND SAFE
::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::
Missing Stewart County boy found safe

Posted: Oct 22, 2011 8:45 PM CDT Updated: Oct 22, 2011 10:39 PM CDT
Posted by Jessica Turri - email
 
http://www.wsmv.com/story/15786451/missing-boy  (http://www.wsmv.com/story/15786451/missing-boy)
DOVER, TN (WSMV) -

Police in Stewart County have safely located the 5 year old boy who went missing near his home in Dover Saturday afternoon.

Aidan Bennett was last seen near the 900 block of Link Road in Dover around 4:30 p.m.

It's strange the police are not even questioning the other children who were present.  I don't recall ever seeing that happen before.

Parents won't let them.  LE has no choice.

 https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296089_2101178121358_1002580334_32163328_1448706288_n.jpg (https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296089_2101178121358_1002580334_32163328_1448706288_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296089_2101178121358_1002580334_32163328_1448706288_n.jpg)

[/b]

BBM
Now there'shere I must disagree with ypou.  LE are not the only people that use cadaver dogs..many times in the missing person cases here private individuals and groups ave used their dogs ..and they all seem to detect the same thing.  So just because these dogs are used by LE does not change the end result.  I trust the dogs..they are right.even by your stats.. more then they are wrong.  And they have been invaluable over the years in soving crimes and locating bodies..

Oh I needed that laugh this morning!  Thank you so much! 

*still chuckling*

Sad thing is after all this time we all need a little laugh.  This whole story is just so heartbreaking.

Hang in there everyone!

~ fanta

I swear this world is going crazy!  Desperate for a kid?  go through infertility, adopt or get a puppy.  Mad at your spouse? Get a divorce.  Depressed? Meds  Weird "urges"? Castration.  Need money?  McDonald's is hiring.  Good grief.

my mother in law!  It's actually from 1970.  She literally has it professionally cleaned every 6 months.  It's a beautiful orange/brown shag (no joke)

They *can* be valuable in suggesting an area for further investigation, but they are by no means foolproof, and data - actual fact, as opposed to popular opinion - says that cadaver dogs are at best, embryonic science, and at worst, pseudoscience.

I appreciate the passion present here, but there isn't much in the way of hard facts to go on, and the facts are what counts.

When the best case scenario is that dogs are only wrong 1/4 of the time in ideal circumstances where there is no possibility of ambiguous scents, it's not reasonable to assume the answer has been found.

Also, if anyone has any details on what dog group it was that brought in at least one cocker spaniel, I'd be interested in hearing more details. I'm curious what they had that dog searching for, since so far, I haven't found anything to suggest that cockers are used as cadaver dogs - drug sniffers, food- product sniffers, even money sniffers - and I'm curious what else they were looking for.

She says she is taking anti-anxiety meds. Then she tells us she is taking effexor. Effexor is an anti-depressant. I want to know which Benzo she is using. Which is it DB? ativan or xanax. She doesn't care to reveal that part.

One thing is for sure...no sane person would ever mix a benzo w/alcohol. It is like holding a gun to your head and playing Russian Roulette.

She admits to having anxiety but she doesn't admit to depression. I want to know all the meds she has been prescribed...and I am betting there's a bunch.

There's a photo of Lisa and her father floating around.  Jeremy's holding Lisa and smiling - beautiful photo.  If you look close the refrigerator has a handful of prescription medication bottles on top of it - 4 I can see and it looks like more behind.

I want to know who those prescription bottles are marked for, what the medication is, what the dates on the bottles are and if it coincides with pill count, etc.

So much to know but I bet we'll not be told.  Unless they come up as evidence. 

I tried photoshop to see how close I could get to read the labels.  Impossible.

~ fanta

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844
Baby Lisa Irwin: New Surveillance Footage of Mystery Man
By CHRISTINA NG and ROB NELSON
Oct. 23, 2011

New surveillance footage of mystery man may support Lisa Irwin parents' claim that their daughter was abducted.

In video obtained exclusively by "Good Morning America," a man dressed in white is seen leaving a wooded area, at 2:30 a.m. -- the night of Lisa's disappearance.

The family claims Lisa was abducted and they point to key witnesses who saw a suspicious man that night, carrying a baby.

 ::snipping2::

Fanta - if this is the photo you are referring to, looks more like a Campbells Soup insignia to me:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6232/6271945475_a47de93386_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6036/6271941543_c8b14cd714_o.jpg)

Rule Number One:

While in charge of babies & small children you do not get wasted.

No, there's another photo - same one but shows more of the fridge - it clearly shows 4 prescription bottles - brown with white caps - and another small bottle.  I'll see if I can find it again to post it.

Thanks
~fanta

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844)
Baby Lisa Irwin: New Surveillance Footage of Mystery Man


Wow...

You can't see him carrying anything leaving the woods - so I'm not sure why this should give the family 'hope' - but we can still hope can't we!

~ fanta

Fanta - you are correct.  Found the other photo you were referring to (thanks to Crankercrankerson's album).  Can't tell what meds they are but I see at least 3 bottles.  That said the meds could also be for Jeremy or the boys:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6116/6272536274_d11db842b5_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6041/6272536294_aae2761767_o.jpg)

Just the portion showing the surveillance video.  Doesn't look like he is carrying anything to me and this is at 2:30am:



Screen grab:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6228/6272574368_e2baa76ced_o.jpg)

Thanks so much for posting the vid and screen shot - I've not quite figured that out yet.

Yes surely they could be for the others - but that's what I'd like to know. 

Are they for Lisa?  Does she have a medical condition we've not been told about?

How many pills are left in each bottle - does it coincide with the refill date.

Are these prescriptions filled out to other people not in the house?  (Meaning someone else might have been staying there)???

SO MANY QUESTIONS those little bottle raise!  :)

~ fanta

The 2nd half of the full surveillance video at the ABCnews link above shows their attorney walking thru the house after the LE search.  Keeping in mind I don't believe anything defense attorneys say but I did notice she walked into the kitchen and got a screen capture of the refrigerator agaon.  NOTE, the meds are gone now:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6224/6272075893_57f913b732_b.jpg)

That sounds just like the carpet my grandmother had it was the style then!
She had a nice house too!

Looks like a box of wine and the 4 pk of Campbell's soup are still there.

In the video of the man being seen coming out of the woods it could be anyone. It doesn't say where?
The witnesses that seen the man carrying the baby never says what color of t shirt!

I also have been wondering about Debbie and the neighbor drinking outside for Hours in the cold. Think it was around 40 degrees?why not in the house? If the neighbors daughter was in the house did her neighbor go inside? Did the neighbor see the baby? Why doesn't she talk to media?

IF the guy in the video was one carrying the baby he didn't have anything to bury her w in his hands,he's walking! It doesn't make sense.

 ::snipping2::
 Also there was a dumpster burning the night Lisa went missing. The guy who talked to the media, said that the flames were several feet in the air and some sort of solvent had been used.


 http://humbleopinionforum.net/2011/10/23/lisa-irwin-update-23-october-2011-man-seen-dumpster-and-the-carpet/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

(Why would someone use solvent) maybe they cam tie the solvent to Irwin home IF the fire had anything to do with it.

The Today Show 10/23/2011
http://www.myspace.com/video/565006329/lisa-irwin-today-show-10-23-11/108287102

October 23, 2011
Exclusive: Irwin Family Attorney Responds to Cadaver Dog Hit.. Video

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/justice-jeanine/index.html

I didn't doubt for a minute the police would take note of those meds but it sure is good to see them gone.  Then again so is Lisa's family. 

Boy do I wish I knew what they were though!  I don't suppose you can pull that rabbit out of your hat?  No...  Well, thanks anyway so much! :) :) :)

~ fanta

http://www.patriotledger.com/mobile/x804699188/WENDY-J-MURPHY-Understanding-the-Baby-Lisa-case-and-the-power-of-spin
WENDY J. MURPHY: Understanding the Baby Lisa case and the power of spin
GateHouse News Service
Posted Oct 23, 2011 @ 10:00 AM
 ::snipping2::
The lawyer for Lisa’s mother says we should pay no mind to the mother’s inconsistencies about when she last saw Lisa alive because traumatized people always make mistakes. This same lawyer told a jury in New York recently that a severely traumatized rape victim’s inconsistent statements proved she was lying about the crime.

So much for the effects of trauma.

He also criticized cops for being too tough on the parents even though in 99 percent of cases like this one, one or both parents is responsible and the child was killed, sold or given away to pay off a drug debt. In other words, cops have been tough on Lisa’s parents because they’d be idiots to waste too much time looking outside the family.

Most people find it hard to believe that a mother would harm her own sweet-faced little baby. They find it less hard to believe that a cranky-faced guy might be guilty, which is another reason to be mindful of why, IF the father is involved, the defense is likely to exploit the behavior of the mother when it comes to influencing our perception of reality.

We’ve seen enough of these cases to keep our eyes wide open this time. Lisa’s parents have a right to remain silent, but the Constitution says nothing about silencing those of us who believe that justice matters for a voiceless little girl.

Read more: http://www.patriotledger.com/archive/x804699188/WENDY-J-MURPHY-Understanding-the-Baby-Lisa-case-and-the-power-of-spin#ixzz1bcHg9ZxA

Why would a anonymous benefactor chose this case?  Why Taco and Meathead?  Sadly there are other cases
of missing persons that have gotten media attention.  Why the Lisa Irwin case?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/baby-lisa-irwin-search-continues-14795707
Baby Lisa Irwin Search Continues
Former FBI Profiler Brad Garrett breaks down the new developments.
02:27 | 10/23/2011

It's very possible that the carpet taken by LE was actually a rug - as in 4 x 5, 8 x 19, etc.  If from the parents' bedroom, it could have been placed by the parents at some point in time over pre-existing wall to wall. 

Ooops- meant :  " 8 x 10 "

Good Morning... ::ghost::


I have been reading but not posting..my thoughts....Could one of the boys dropped Lisa when Mom was outside and the boys panicked   and did not tell the mom and she found Lisa deceased..could that be why the boys will not be allowed to be questioned...I am curious if the boys are in school and are telling anything to school counselors.

Good Morning Mymonkey

I believe if baby Lisa's demise was a result of an accident ... 911 would have been called.  However ... an act of wrongdoing implies a cover up.

Have a good Sunday all.

Janet
8:41 AM PT

+++++++

As with each day ....

Psalm 118:24
This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it

You are likely correct.  It didn't look like a carpet, looked like an area rug.  They may have had an area rug covering an older carpet.

Thanks Alagary!!!  ::MonkeyCheer4::

Re: Effexor

From this page:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000947/


So yes, that specific medication is used to treat anxiety. It doesn't require or presume a diagnosis of depression.


This does NOT mean "mixing alcohol and this medication will kill you"; it means "having this medication in your system while you are drinking means that the alcohol may make you sleepier than you normally would be for that amount of alcohol".
-----------------------
Re: the GMA video released this morning

The surveillance video is interesting, but the video inside the house with the lawyer is even more interesting.
Highlights:
- the carpet in the room where the dog supposedly hit was NOT removed.
- there appeared to be very little fingerprinting done
- the contents of the home were less disturbed than usual for a search, especially unexpected since the search was so lengthy
-----------------------
re: the Rx bottles

Heck, I have four on my desk right now, because I just refilled my fibro med and my painkiller. And if I had to leave the house and stay elsewhere, you can be sure they'd go with me. I'm fairly certain that there's still some vicodin and oxycodon left in the kitchen cupboard from the last time I broke myself while being clumsy. Now that I think about it, there might even be some Rx ibuprofen. Plus a full and a partial of my son's medication, and I think an empty or two might be living in there, too.

And if you looked in my craft cupboard, you'd find a baggie with a whole bunch of empties. They make great "rattles" (add beads, dried peas, beans, corn, whatever) to use inside crocheted baby toys.

So... four doesn't sound like many at all, not for a household of five.
-----------------------
re: the clothes, the purple shorts

When my daughter was that size, 95% of her wardrobe was pink, purple or both. (Unsurprising, especially after three boys!)

Having 3 or 4 purple shorts, and half a dozen pink ones, and about the same number in pants, wouldn't surprise me at all.
-----------------------
re: the alcohol

The logic is confusingly circular.

1. Because she drank alcohol and took her anxiety meds while she was the caregiver for her children, she's a bad mother.

2. Something happened to Lisa because DB was so drunk, whether it was accidental, or she was angry, or whatever.

3. Because DB had to be able to hide Lisa's body so well that LE can't find her, she must be lying about how much she drank - because to cover her tracks that well, she couldn't possibly have been incapacitated.

4. If she wasn't incapacitated, than #1 and #2 aren't valid anymore and we're back to where we started.
-----------------------
Other random comments and curiosities:
- How much did the neighbor have to drink that night?
- Has the neighbor allowed her child to be questioned?
- Have any of the nearby neighbors spoken out about their interactions with and impressions of the family?

- If you had done nothing wrong, and you'd had a terrible experience with law enforcement trying to extract a false confession from you, would you really allow them unlimited access to your child(ren) that are already traumatized by the disappearance of their sister?

- If law enforcement really felt that they needed to talk to those boys, they could ask a judge for it - thing is, that would entail lawyers and child psychology specialists and all that to be present to reduce trauma to the children - which, by the very nature of the situation, would make it difficult for law enforcement to influence the children's statements. I can see why LE would want unfettered access - it's too difficult to stack the deck if everyone is watching.

- If they're on TV asking for help about their missing child, they're attention whores that just want their 15 minutes. If they're not on TV, they don't care enough about their child to put themselves out there. Damned if you do, damned if you don't?

- It's common knowledge that it's appropriate and expected to lawyer up as soon as you are (or suspect you will be) accused of something, regardless of whether it's true or false. If you're innocent and don't lawyer up, you're a fool who is putting yourself at risk by not having someone knowledgeable about the system on your side. If you're innocent and do lawyer up, you're presumed guilty by the public. Again, no winner.

I feel like I am an open minded person...I like to look at all angles of a story.  I have to admit my thoughts that the mom is likely guilty of something comes nothing from the long list that starshadow has provided (thanks starshadow).  I do want to clear up the possible sightings of a man walking a baby, though.  I would like to find out WHO spotted this man walking with a baby.  As far as the man coming from the woods...where was that location?  I guess I can go and look it up.  Was it close to the bar?  It doesn't look like a thickly wooded area...like there is a lot of activity around there BUT I cannot see it clearly AT ALL.  I pray Lisa is safe.  If it is NOT someone from inside the home that took Lisa then I would be scared if I were around the KC area!

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/In%20the%20News/baby.jpg)

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/baby-lisa-irwin-search-continues-14795707

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Local attorney representing parents discusses latest developments
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 10:10 AM CDT Updated: Oct 23, 2011 10:55 AM CDT
Video at link.
 
 
KANSAS CITY, MO (KCTV) -

It has been quite a Sunday at the home where baby Lisa's parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin have been staying.

The parents of baby Lisa have scaled back their media presence.

The local attorney representing the parents, Cynthia Short, is thankful that the parent's home was not destroyed during the search.

"Although that search was described as a search that was supposedly going to be invasive, I was concerned for the family that I would go in and see their home destroyed...one that they had worked on for a long time.  In fact, there is thankfully no destruction," said Cynthia Short.  "There are no walls torn out."
 ::snipping2::

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2011/10/23/missing_baby_lisa_irwins_mother_we_hav
Missing Baby Lisa Irwin's Mother: 'We Have Absolutely Nothing To Hide'
October 23rd, 2011 9:00am EDT
(http://images.starpulse.com/news/bloggers/10/blog_images/people-magazine-3.jpg)

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1233416093001/are-baby-lisas-parents-telling-the-truth
Are Baby Lisa's Parents Telling the Truth?
Oct 23, 2011- 7:45 -
Body Language Tonya Reiman weighs in

Question Please:

I've been looking through the posts and at the 'floor plan' of Lisa's house.  There is a 'dn' label on the staircase indicating what I would think to mean a 'down' staircase.

Why have we not heard anything about the 'basement' - or is there not a basement?  I'm a bit confused over this point.

Thanks in advance

~ fanta

Is that a wine box I see posed on the stove?  I don't trust any of these new pictures, surveillance footage, witnesses, and any "exclusive" information from ABC, that are coming out now.  It is much too convenient now that it is coming out after the lawyers and that whacko I mean wild Bill character have become involved.  Their job is to muck up things, not clear them up.

Right.  All that exclusive was, was the attorney going thru the house complaining about what LE did or didn't do.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
Local attorney: 'We might not get the happy ending that we want.'
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 10:10 AM CDT Updated: Oct 23, 2011 1:01 PM CDT
KANSAS CITY, MO (KCTV) -

The parents of baby Lisa have scaled back their media presence, but their local attorney, Cyndy Short, representing them discussed the latest developments in the case Sunday.

Short said that when she went into the house where baby Lisa went missing, she was stunned to find not much was actually taken or disturbed during the 17 hour search police conducted on Wednesday.

"There are no walls torn out. So whatever x-ray they did, did not confirm whatever it was that some dog thought it sniffed," said Cyndy Short.

"My fear is that we have missed this critical time to find this baby," said Short.  "It really breaks your heart that we have been looking in the wrong direction, and as a result of that we might not get the happy ending that we want. That is what I'm sad about."
 ::snipping2::

One of the things Im wondering bout is maybe the reason DB doesnt want the investigators to question the 2 boys is maybe because she is afraid that since this has all came out about "her drinking and pill taking" if maybe now the police might question the 2 boys about their life in that home in the previous years, maybe when they questioned the boys to begin with they probably just asked about the night in question when baby Lisa first came up missing, but now they would probably ask about how their lives have been all along, "did their Mother drink every night" how many times did they find her passed out in different places in the home, " how many times did they wake up and hear the baby crying in her crib and the Mother still asleep and they had to care for the baby......stuff like that.......then the other 2 boys would probably be removed from their care also, there is some reason she doesnt want them talking anymore with LE.......I believe that something did happen to Lise that night or day at that home and even if the boys didnt see anything they still could shed light on their everyday life there with DB........

That's a possibility I guess but I still want the boys re-interviewed because there is a little baby here who is either missing or dead.  I've been trying to get information about the rights of the police and the parents and it seems like it varies from state to state.  Here's a link that I've found so far but I'll keep looking for Missouri specifically.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060612032130AABjJTl

"Police can detain witnesses including minors. In most states minors are considered children under 16. Minors can be questioned and detained for a "reasonable amount of time." Police can not take confessions from minors to crimes without a parents knowledge or consent but as long as the minor is not a suspect he/she can be detained, questioned, asked to give statements and probed for information about a crime."

catching up and not sure if anyone has put up the map for where the gas station is
im glad somethings you can always recognize,its a bp station on the corner of
parvin and N brighton,that captured the vid

looking at bp
http://g.co/maps/bz9qe

turned around looking across from bp
http://g.co/maps/4jx8s

woods lower RH side
http://g.co/maps/u32k8

overview of home-green arrow below A,A is the bp, at 48th a little up/N is the
4am bike guy sighting,if you zoom in,the pk is called,hidden valley pk,looks
like a long pk way
http://g.co/maps/wjeak

captured the vid
http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844)

Could be. Makes sense. So, then my question becomes, "Why can't Child Protective Services go in and question the boys? Isn't their "reasonable cause"?

Finding out DB had anxiety attacks and meds for same, I am now wondering if their had been some sort of unpleasantness the day before at grandparents house, birthday, when "happy" photos were taken. Could something have been said to set off DB and it escalated into the following day's "Lisa disappears."

Also, the photo of dad JI, holding Lisa in kitchen; he is obviously thrilled at having this baby. More emotion shown in that photo than at any or all the time since her disappearance.

Anyone else notice the clear counters and stove top? How do you do that with a family of five, one of whom is an infant?

It's complicated because I can't find anything specific to Missouri.  This is very interesting though -

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_police_question_a_12-year-old_about_their_possible_involvement_in_a_crime_with_a_parent_being_present

if we are talking about that,grayish blueish,looking carpet,i dont think they took it,it looked
like it was rolled out in the drive,then they rolled it up and took it to the back of house,i think
it was a room carpet too,and prob that size,and it may have not been from the Ps Bdr
so maybe the scent was in the wall to wall carpet, anyone know where that footage is
seems like a csi carried out a bag that looked like it had a piece of rug in it

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
 ::snipping2::
Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.
 ::snipping2::

Very good point.  Some of us know all to well what can happen when we put all our relatives together in one place on a 'happy day'...  Oh the horrors!

~ fanta

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf (http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf)

It reads:


We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta

Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.
 ::snipping2::
[/quote]

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf (http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf)

It reads:


We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta
[/quote]exactly, the dogs could have picked up the scent from a blanket that was lying on the floor of the bedroom by the parents bed or on any clothing that was lying there!

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf (http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf)

It reads:


We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta
[/quote]exactly, the dogs could have picked up the scent from a blanket that was lying on the floor of the bedroom by the parents bed or on any clothing that was lying there!
[/quote]

since its not carpet,pretty dumb to leave that behind and in your Bdr to boot

The court, in Missouri, can appoint guardian ad litim's for the two boys and then have the boys questioned.

On the side.  If DB was the one in the military and not hubby, she could be brought up on charges of adultery and dealt with. As she only continues as a dependent of military personnel, she still can be dealt with IF she continues to receive government benefits.

exactly, the dogs could have picked up the scent from a blanket that was lying on the floor of the bedroom by the parents bed or on any clothing that was lying there!
[/quote]

since its not carpet,pretty dumb to leave that behind and in your Bdr to boot
[/quote]




Very good point. There is so much material to cover so quickly. Something pops on this case, almost daily. Glad you caught this.

Comforter, clothes and car themed blanket could have come from the floor in DB's bedroom. Those items could have ORIGINALLY come from Lisa's bedroom.

Multiple rolls of tape and dispenser. God, I hope it wasn't duct tape.

SHORT - Is a defense attorney.  Personally I don't believe a word she says.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
 ::snipping2::
"When you are in crisis and one of the things that is withheld from you is information, it is devastating," said Short.  "They are on a roller coaster. They are doing the best they can and holding out hope. They love this little girl. They really did. And she was a precious little girl. So they are just hanging on doing the best they can.  And people are surrounding them and supporting them."
 ::snipping2::

Speaking in past tense........

I don't either. ::MonkeyNoNo::

make that a "me either" .....defense  attorney............its in their job description to lie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nope.....dont believe a word she says!

Never a good sign from family or family's atty.  They know this baby is deceased.

As bottles were obviously not there after the search, I am wondering if DB and JI took them with them when they fled to the relatives house to stay. It is possible that LE never had them, although Lisa and DB's medical records were made available to LE.

I don't believe those meds were for Lisa.  She's only 11 months old.  She'd have been given meds with a dropper top. 

I know - lol.  It was silly.

I agree, not Lisa's but the question was did they belong to someone else in the family besides Lisa's mom.

Thanks - I didn't catch that.   But they did take it.

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf (http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf)

It reads:


We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta
[/quote]exactly, the dogs could have picked up the scent from a blanket that was lying on the floor of the bedroom by the parents bed or on any clothing that was lying there!
[/quote]


Perhaps the "cars" themed blanket.   Must belong in the boys' room.   Didn't she tell PEOPLE magazine they had bunk beds?

I don't think she does either - LOL.

Yes they did...
Wonder if that carpet was moved after Lisa was missing.
That the 2 brothers could answer, Mom would lie I bet...jmo
 ::MonkeyEek::

nah.............she wouldnt lie......lol....she would and has lied, and until they get proof of what happened to the baby she will continue to do so......just like Casey. imo

Well, that leaves...
JL
JL's son
DB's son
? possibly DB's brother?

The surviellance video of the mystery man in white doesn't phase me in the least.  That could be anyone.  In the video one arm can be seen swinging while he's walking so it's unlikely he is carrying a 25 pound child.

The rug carried away by investigators was bound around the edges so it was definitely an area rug.  Wonder which room it had occupied before it found its' way to the shed?

I cannot disregard so easily the sightings of a man carrying a baby because we have three different witnesses with two different sightings who all saw the same thing.  If an acquaintance had been roped in to helping DB after the infant child was murdered, that person could have been anybody... they could have been developmentally disabled or strung out on drugs or just very close to the baby, highly distraught, and unable to think clearly enough to not be seen with the baby walking around in the middle of the night.

I wonder if someone else was hanging out with DB that night besides just her neighbor?

IF all the sightings are correct, then someone was/is trying to setup a defense to try and get away with Lisa's disappearance, death.  And the barrel fire close to the house.
What are the odds all these things didn't have anything to do with this case?

 ::MonkeyEek::

ABCNews is now the old FoxNews, a tabloid. How can they look at the video and paste on their front page a huge picture and titles saying that the video is a "breakthrough" on the case? Did anyone look at the image? It can be anyone, even a woman, and NO BABY.


I think these people reporting baby Lisa sightings are like those people who reported UFO abductions back in the 70s, it's their brains working overtime trying to find answers from something that's innocuous.


She has half a gallon of wine at night... drinks to a blackout state ... while her kid is sick... on a MONDAY night.

<sarcasm coming> No she doesn't have a problem, Mr. TP. </sarcasm ending>

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-theories-in-lisa-irwin-disappearance-20111023,0,7211386.story

AmyKCTV5 Amy Anderson
by NimaKCTV5
Baby Lisa local family attorney is talking with KC media about the case. Tonight on KCTV5 @ 9 & 10. #LisaIrwin
17 minutes ago https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5 (https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5)

Few other developments in the case this weekend other than a tour of the house by the attorney representing baby Lisa's parents
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com 5:01 PM

    Reply

KMBC's Marcus Moore: Another vigil for baby Lisa happening tonight
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com 5:01 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1be4JK8Uf

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-will-irwin-bradley-talk-to-police-again-20111023,0,355334.story?track=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wdaf-news+%28FOX4KC+Local+News%29
Will Lisa Irwin's Parents Ever Speak to Police Again?
4:13 p.m. CDT, October 23, 2011
KANSAS CITY, Mo.—

Video at link.
On Sunday, Cyndy Short, the local defense attorney representing Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, agreed to an exclusive interview with FOX 4's Tess Koppelman.

Koppelman asked Short about the police assertion that Bradley and Irwin are no longer cooperating with the investigation and have gone silent, refusing to talk to police.

Short says it's true that the police and her clients cannot agree on the conditions for another discussion or interrogation.

"We were offering conditions under which we would sit down again and the conditions that they wanted and the conditions that we want right now haven't meshed," Short said.
 ::snipping2::

see, this is what Im concerned about...this isnt some kind of off the wall interview, this is a missing child for crying out loud, why must there be "conditions"  they should always be up for a meeting with LE no matter the stupid "conditions"........HEllo, your child is gone here.....tell police whatever they want to know and help find your baby!!

About the video at the BP station...

I would think that a kidnapper, even a dumb kidnapper, would wear clothes to blend in with the darkness of the night. So, why dress in white?  He might as well had worn a neon sign with an arrow pointed at him saying "over heah!"

Is there a description to this blob of white? From the camera's viewpoint, it can be just about anyone, even a woman.

Hopefully the person in the video comes forward and all doubt is lifted off the blob being responsible for the kidnapping. If this person doesn't, the defense may have a field day... a mysterious "perpetrator" to pin the kidnapping on, if the case against the parents goes to trial.

Whoever this guy or gal is, he/she has just been "Kronked"... this case resembles Caylee Anthony's more and more by the minute.

One thing to ask is... does LE have a copy of the surveillance tape, and if not... why did ABCNews get it first? Why report it as a "breakthrough" in the case if it hasn't been confirmed by LE?

One thing to keep in mind is that any of these "sightings" could be real, though unlikely.

So, one has to keep an open mind.

To me, the real investigation of the statements and videos on the case should remain with the authorities handling the investigation... not the media. The media's responsibility is to report the facts, and let the people interpret those.

I'll get off my high horse now.

 ::ghost::

Copy of ABCNews.com surveillance picture, for reference.

(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy315/TomboyKetchup/scakeys-lisa12.jpg)

This is just that part of the video which shows the man walking near the BP:

Is that another person looking in the direction of the person supposedly walking out of the woods?  Or is that a part of the light...I really cannot tell.

I watched the video clip 3 times and IMO the arms of the person are swinging ever so slightly at their side...hence not carrying anything  ::MonkeyWitch1::

I agree with you NUT, I don't think he's carrying anything at all. 

NimaKCTV5 Nima Shaffe
Family of #lisairwin making an appearance outside the home where their #BabyLisa went missing. twitpic.com/74vwmv (http://twitpic.com/74vwmv)
4 minutes ago https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5 (https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5)

(http://s1-01.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/431470327.jpg)

The new Kronk IMO, could be a man walking home from a bar for heaven's sake and it looks like he has long sleeves as opposed to the short sleeves the "wintesses" have mentioned seeing at midnight, 2 am and 4 am????? I call BS on all of it, and the last stmt about the parents not cooperating which in essence is what LE has stated from early on is the second time an atty for them used a past tense verb, IIRC one time they (could be tacojo) mentioned mourning the death/loss of their baby....

NimaKCTV5 Nima Shaffe
As the person prays for the conviction of the person or persons responsible for #LisaIrwin, Deborah Bradley begins sobbing. #findbabylisa
47 seconds ago https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5 (https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5)

Okee Dokee, Deborah -- let's give it up ---  does this perhaps apply to you ?????

Sam_Hartle Sam_Hartle
Attendees at Irwin vigil now lighting candles via @ReporterJake: yfrog.com/es26eej (http://yfrog.com/es26eej)
13 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/Sam_Hartle (http://twitter.com/#!/Sam_Hartle)
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg532/scaled.php?tn=0&server=532&filename=26ee.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)

Sam_Hartle Sam_Hartle
@ReporterJake is outside Irwin home, where parents have joined in, wearing Find Lisa T-shirts, in a vigil: yfrog.com/kkez4myzj (http://yfrog.com/kkez4myzj)
18 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/Sam_Hartle (http://twitter.com/#!/Sam_Hartle)
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg740/scaled.php?tn=0&server=740&filename=ez4myz.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)

This and the video...smoke and mirrors IMO. 

NimaKCTV5 Nima Shaffe  https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5 (https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5)
KC atty. Cyndy Short seen with Bryan McAllister standing at the prayer vigil. #lisairwin #kctv5 twitpic.com/74w6fy (http://twitpic.com/74w6fy)
1 minute ago
Nima Shaffe
NimaKCTV5 Nima Shaffe
twitvid.com/G0NPC (http://twitvid.com/G0NPC) - A family friend of #lisairwin prays at the vigil. Amazing Grace sang as candles are lit.
2 minutes ago
A family friend of #lisairwin prays at the vigil. Amazing Grace sang as candles
http://www.twitvid.com/G0NPC

(http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/431483038.jpg)
https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5 (https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5)

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/neighbors-continue-to-help-try-to-find-lisa-irwin
Neighbors continue to help try to find Lisa Irwin
Posted: 5:21 PM
Last Updated: 56 minutes ago
Video at link.
Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/neighbors-continue-to-help-try-to-find-lisa-irwin#ixzz1beSUMuWV

I need to clarify my smoke and mirrors comment, I meant the sudden participation of DB, JI and their attorneys not the prayer vigil itself.

Guess she was convicted huh. Did she dye her hair and cut it?!

I am sure the atty made them go (all for pubic opinion ) IMO....but I am so pizzed about the negotiating to talk to LE , except certain detectives and who knows WTH their demands were..reminds me of Misty C and slore. They talk about being uncomfortable with the specific detectives WTF?????? What about their baby, but again IMO they already know she is gone so there is a huge lack of concern/willingness to cooperate.

(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg620/scaled.php?tn=0&server=620&filename=gg4eez.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
http://twitter.com/#!/Sam_Hartle (http://twitter.com/#!/Sam_Hartle)
Sam_Hartle Sam_Hartle
RT @PeterAlexander: #BabyLisa's parents at vigil right now for their missing baby daughter. yfrog.com/h8gg4eezj (http://yfrog.com/h8gg4eezj)
1 hour ago

Hi Monkeys!

For whatever it's worth, after multiple viewings, I don't think the guy coming out from the woods is carrying anything either.

Looks like a light.

Who is the guy to Deborah's right, the one with the black shirt. He holds hands with her in other pictures. Not implying anything, just curious as to who he is. 

It sure looks a darker brown to me.

it most certainly does look darker, maybe some red added and it does look shorter, maybe getting ready for her television appearance........or for the ride in the back of a patrol car.