Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/candleman2justice2007.jpg)

8)

Something must be up for Robin to write that letter and Dave to agree with it.

CHEATER!!!!!!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Robin has hinted at that before.  I think EASY said it best in the previous thread.  :wink:

 :shock:  How does he do that almost every time?   :shock:

The only thing I can take from Robins Statement is

We can all boycott all we want, But it will NOT bring Natalee Home
I think it may be alittle acceptance of there part

He sneaks in before the rest of us notice the new thread is even there.  :roll:  :lol:

I cant see BFN at the moment. As you know it is the only website I cant see on this PC. I am not sure what Realty and MIP6 connection is to Robin...I find it strange as the short time I have been  there all they did was stir up problems.

I see the so called Joran posted at FOB again. I guess he is back to walking home..The whole beach thing and the pick up is all BS anyway!!

No, it won't bring Natalee home, but it might help prevent the same thing happening to another innocent person. It seems to me there is more at stake than Natalee, although she is very important. There is also how tourists will be treated in the future. If people see that their actions have undesirable consequences, then maybe their behavior will change.

I know there must be wonderful people who live in Aruba, and I don't want them to be hurt. I also don't want tourists to be hurt because of how the people in charge handle situations.

Klaas you know more then anyone that the boycott is working.. You have posted the numbers to prove it
THOSE ppl ranting and raving are just pissed off and will say anything
to try and prove it isnt working  we all know it is working..  Less tourist
less money and more taxes to make up there losses there sinking but can they swim

I've never understood Robin, but she will defend a certain group to the end.  And, that is a strange, hateful group at that!

Posted by Lazlo at RU regarding the Bondia article talking about the last search and the seizing of Skeeters inheritance:

From that article (page 8 of 23) http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/June/18/A-18-6-07.pdf :

According to a local lawyer Kock was not available for a reaction/comment. Bon Dia only got confirmation of a search in the area of the Raquet Club last week but not of the alleged freezing of inheritance.

In a personnal conversation with lawyer Zeppenveldt he could only confirm the search but not about other things that were reported to Bon Dia.

(Bon Dia starts the article by saying, it is rumored the lawyer of Kalpoes frozen Skeeters's inheritance, so that part not confirmed yet)

Well the proof that much hasnt change on the island was just posted this morning, The gangs are taking over and burning police cars

I certainly have all the respect in the world for the Holloways.  I'd be interested to know Beth's position on this.  
The boycott is having a HUGE impact and I intend to continue to support it to the fullest extent possible.  To me, that's just what Aruba has wanted from day one, just forget this ever happened.

I was told a U.S. source would be the only one that confirm the inheritance business, because very little is known about the ciivl case in Aruba.

Also..Be carefull of posting your email address here.. One of our posters got a email from Charlie Ratt asking if she supports the Boycott. Charlie if you love Aruba soo much go live there!!

well, the BOYCOTT is working

because if i stop 1 dollar or 1 MILLIONS DOLLARS going there...its worth it
i dont care what anyone says.. i dont spend money AT CORRUPT PLACES

if i have anything to say about it  

and thats the BOTTOM LINE  8)

I agree Easy.

As far as I'm concerned Robin can write a zillion letters and it will mean nothing to me.  After this last letter I lost total respect for that woman.  Just because she wants to sign her husbands name at the end of the letter good for her.

I want to see a personal letter written by Beth stating what Robin has said.

In my personal opinion Beth calls the shots as Natalee' mother not Robin. :evil:

magic  8)

i dont shop at local stores that are JERKS


same thing


money talks

BULL CRAP walks  8)

for 80 plus years nobody tells me what to do


i aint changing now  8)

IMO, Dave is just plain TIRED. If Robin wants to stop the boycott -- he is not going to make waves. Beth's marriage broke-up from all the tension and strife of all of this and maybe Dave simply wants to prevent the same thing in his marriage and is just "going along." The boycott IS working -- that is why the Dutch are finally involved. This may be a desperate ploy to finally get the sympathy of Arubans -- but I think it is absolutely pointless to cow-tow to them now. :twisted:

Nobody tells me what to do either. :)

thats the WAY !!! :wink:

I'm still not sure if that is in robots years or what!!!!!  :roll:

Did you read the post from BFN ?

As far as the internet goes, I think Robin has always called the shots and Dave just follows along.  Dave needs to make a more public statement about his feelings, so that we can better understand what this is all about.

I am just curious about the timing of this letter. Why now?? Maybee wreck and easy are on the money with the above statements??

yes it is :twisted:

you need to multiply human years times Pi and then divide by the squre root of the magic number then find the correct percentage of heat you can get from 12,000 BTU's of a propane stove running at 40 PERCENT capacity

MIP6 was quick to respond to the post by Robin(if this was truely a post by Robin). If this was, I think she would have announced it in the media, and I'll believe it when she does.




View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
   
   
Re: The Boycott
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:23:29 PM »
   Reply with quote
Dave & Robin,

I applaud you for this bold move in speaking out against a boycott of Aruba & her people.
The time is now for everyone on all forums to come together and see this for what it is, a chance to work together to find the truth to help bring Natalee home.
This is truly a turning point in opening new lines of communication among the internet families that have come together in really a single cause, Natalee, yet we have been divided for one reason or another.
As I have been in the past I will continue to be in the future here to assist if I can in finding answers to help bring Natalee home.
Thank you both for making this post to let the Internet community know that you do not support hurting or hatred in Natalee’s name.

37?

Robin Holloway does not have the right to announce it in the media because that is Beth's job.  How would it look if she goes on TV by herself and announces she doesn't support the Boycott.  If Dave feels this is the right decision then he should be the one going on all the shows and announcing it because he is Natalee's father.  JMO.

I don't think she would announce it anywhere, nor could she, without Dave.

Several days ago Purcell was on FOB making noise about the boycott and his talks with Robin.  He then made some vague threat about sticking around.  That's not a coincidence.

It really bothers me that someone like that could have any influence with any member of Natalee's family.  I don't understand it and I definitely will not let it guide my desire for answers.

I agree, Mark Purcell has a questionable agenda of his own IMO, which I think is motivated by the dollar almost exclusively.  I once had a conversation with Robin (email) and the person she went to for clarification on the matter was Mark Purcell. Not much of a source.......

pretty close  8)

Something isn't right about that whole deal and it is a big turn-off!

Who is mark purcell?  :?:

MIP6

...oh yeah...... my signature line is REALLY appropriate now!!!!

Some jackass who was originaly from California and now lives in Aruba and is best friends with Julia Renfro.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

I just wanted to respond to a hate monger's post.  What truly is pathetic is hate mongers who spend thousands of hours on the computer making up lies and disgusting attacks against Natalee and her family. Not one of them could say what there real motivation is for being so obsessed with this case. Certainly isnt the truth!!

We are clearly here for the Love of Natalee and her Family and will not rest until there is Justice and Natalee is brought home. Pathetic signs in Miami and Boston?? Really..who is the pathetic ones that wont disclose there motivation for attacking helpless victims. WHat pathetic sign are you holding up? Case closed?Beth is a liar?

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/MiamiTravelShowinfrontofmainentranc.jpg)

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/protest2.jpg)

Yeah! What he said. :lol:  :lol:

Hi Monkeys. Trying to catch up. Looks like Robots cheated again. :lol:

Now do I have to go to BFN to read Robins letter or is it posted here somewhere.?

Jackass from California > Florida > Texas > Aruba that was the maintenance man at one of the resorts, while his wife manages another.  She is involved heavily with ATA.  They have a son that works at Moomba's, which is mentioned by Joran in his book as being a drug haven.  I think Moomba's also had a nasty sign saying something about 123 out of 124 tourist went home.  Not a nice bunch of people.

Robin has been tight with this guy for a long time and she will turn on everyone here in his defense.  Go figure......

Here Sam I hope it is OK to post. Klaasend if you don't want it here feel free to delete .TIA

+++++++++++++++++

We want to thank every single person who have tried so hard for us to get the answers for Natalee.  She did not deserve to be taken away from us and she should be home with us living her life.  Your support means so much to us.  It is humbling to see how many people from all over the world have embraced Natalee.

We realize some of you will not agree, but as much as we want to know what happened to Natalee, Dave and I no longer support a boycott of Aruba.  We thank everyone who did so on our behalf, but it is no longer necessary to do so for Dave or me.  We realize it is an individual choice, but please try to see it from our perspective.  In our opinion, the boycott has caused a lot of hurt for a lot of innocent people in Aruba who do not deserve that.

We asked a long time ago for ALE to involve Holland with the investigation.  That has happened and we have been advised they are still working on Natalee's case and following up on all leads.  They have done what we asked them to do.  We have to find out what happened to Natalee and have to have faith that is what they are doing now with the investigation.  We will never give up until we find out the truth!

Thank you again for all the support here.  Please continue to keep us in your prayers and keep helping us try to find answers for Natalee.

Dave and Robin

Monkeys, monkeys.  Haven't we learned that the internet hate-mongers will go to extreme lengths to push their agenda?  The agenda of those at RU and FOB is to defend and promote Aruba, using any possible means.  It really is not far-fetched at all to think they might even post under Robin or Dave's names -- saying what they WISH Robin and Dave might say.  

Use restraint, folks, and do not believe everything you read.  I will not believe this letter is from Robin until I hear Dave express these thoughts in the media, or someone I trust, like Red or Klaas, tells me that these are truly Dave's wishes.  Sorry, but I ain't buying this chit.

same here  :wink:

*******, I liked your post with the signs.

I also want to respond. Not all of those sick posters are from Aruba. There are a group of sickos in this world who take great pleasure in trying to get attention anyway they can.

I was reading earlier on the Aol news about a fire in Charlston, South Carolina that killed 9 firefighters. So sad. Anyway you could post your thoughts or prayers, whatever. There were even sickos on there. Such a shame.

I wish I felt that way, but I do think the letter really is from them.

If it was posted at BFN, it got Debbie's stamp of approval.  So, I have no reason to doubt that it came from Robin.

From Amigoe

Violence broke out between Aruban gangs of youths

ORANJESTAD – A big fight between several gangs of youths in the vicinity of the Weststraat and Royal Plaza got completely out of hand last Saturday morning.  A police car was hijacked and was found again totally burnt down in the vicinity of Sta. Cruz.  The police from Oranjestad received assistance from their colleagues from San Nicolas.  

The problems started when the police handcuffed and conveyed a suspect.  After one the gang-members was hit by a flying bottle, about 100 started to fight with each other near Royal Plaza .  The tension mounted when the police fired a warning shot.  According to witnesses, the group yelled at the police that they have guns too and that they are not afraid.    

When two police officers wanted to cuff a person, somebody in the public called that other troublemakers have hijacked a police car.  Several members of the gangs were arrested.  The police had to use the baton to calm down the troublemakers some.  The owners of the entertainment places Carlos ‘n Charlies and Bahia were ordered to close the doors.  There was also commotion at the Emergency Room of the hospital.  The injured young persons that were taken there for treatment, wanted to have a scrap with everything and everybody.

I can say I wasn't sure the post was from Robin, initially. But I have changed my mind. I think she posted it.

I agree with BT.  If BFN allowed it to stay up then the letter is from Robin.

prolly had to say that in order to get permission for TES to go there and search  :roll:

Again, I urge restraint.  I, personally, need more verification of their change in stance than an internet posting that is signed "Robin" and/or "Dave."  1.) There is no way I can verify the identity of the person who wrote the posting.  2.) There are people paid to propogandize Aruba's interests on the internet.  3.)  The two recent travel meeting protests were very visible.  4.) Another travel protest is scheduled for the near future and will also be very visible.  5.) Pro-Aruban supporters have posted immediately after Robin's letter voicing appreciation for the change in stance.  6.)  Dave, Robin or Beth have not appeared in the media to announce this change of stance.

Sorry--I've weighted the evidence, and it's very strong that this is not written by Robin.

I don't think that is very far-fetched.  I just don't agree with it. Ending the boycott now will not have any affect on Aruba cooperating. This is totally in the hands of the Dutch anyways.

Thanks BleachedBlack. Was that posted on BFN? or one of the crap chats.

San, or anyone,

Tomorrow is the Carla Baron show. I will not be able to get it. Is someone going to try to transcribe it? I have been thinking about this alot, I think Easy said she is going to have a surprise reveal at the beginning of the show. I am wondering f she is going to try to tell us Natalee is alive?

That's an interesting thought.

Exactly.  So why come out with a letter that angers and disappoints long time supporters?  It makes no sense.

I am well aware of that..Seems like sickest posters are Americans living in Aruba or they are connected to Aruba tourism here in the states.

I think there is some evidence that Robin has been friendly with pro-Aruban supporters for a while now, so the letter doesn't really surprise me.

Don't count on that one!  Her surprise has to do with a previous investigation, not Natalee.

Sam, I will try and tape the show but I don't know if I will transcribe the whole show.  I will do my best to give updates and I'm sure so will others.

right . . . .  so who was the message really for?

Richard and Vicky and those that have worked so hard to educate people!

It's designed to make people like Michelle pack it all in.

For me the Boycott is not about economically damaging Aruba.  I do it for two reasons.
1. To help educate those that might make the mistake of traveling to Aruba and get caught in the ether of the LE and have no clue how to break free.

2. To get the Dutch and Arubans to get off their asses and do something to find Natalee and all the others that are missing.... and it's not just one or two. It's up top 11 that I know about and I'm expecting the next one any minute as they are overdue based on past records.

We can all live with the fact that crime happens. But it is the disingenuous way the Aruban Authorities investigate crimes. It's a fact, and not subject to debate. You can debate it all you want on FOB and RU, but that won't change the facts.

This is a matter of safety. If Aruba ain't safe, then they need to fix it or I'll  keep telling people not to go.

The name of Beth's foundation is the Safe Travel Foundation, and Aruba ain't safe. I haven't seen anything over the last two years to suggest they have dealt with even one of the main issues facing tourism on Aruba....[/b]

I respect Debbie as a moderator.  However, I recall a fairly recent  post at BFN that Debbie regretted allowing to stand as long as it did.  She can't be expected to have x-ray vision and know the people behind every post.

I am not going to talk about what Robin posted anymore because it is a wasted conversation.

But I do have one question.

Robin if you are so against the Boycott does this mean when your two young daughters grow up and become of age and they want to go to Aruba for vacation will you allow them.

End of story. 8)

It is posted at BFN.

Also, the poster there "Robin" has 69 previous posts. One of them includes a picture of a sign sent to Dave and Robin by a group of posters at BFN . It is a replica of a street sign and says "Wizard of Oz Ave" and the photo in one of her posts shows the sign out in their backyard by the pool. I remember posters at BFN sending that sign. True, someone could have set up a false acct, gotten a street sign like the one being sent to Dave and Robin, taken a pic and included it in their posts to later falsify information. But I don't think so.

Rob, why would Robin and Dave want Richard, Vicky, Michelle and others like us, actually, to stop telling people the truth we know about Aruba?  Our own crime on Aruba thread is proof-positive that the island is not safe.  So, riddle me this:  why would Robin and Dave want us to stop our educational mission of telling everyone that Aruba is not safe?

Robin would have talked that post over with Debbie before it was put out there.  If it was a rogue post, it would have been history within seconds.  There is a strange dynamic going on at BFN that is impossible to understand.

has to be Max, Buddy or Gary... Gary's family misses him very much, so I hope it's one of these.

In case you missed it. Aruba is out of control at the moment. Look at Amigoe's article today. Violence broke out between Aruban gangs of youths..They hijacked a police car and burned it down!! Carlos and Charlies/Bahia were ordered to close there doors.

Much of the blame on the recent drug problems and violence is directed at Rudy Croes who is retiring in a few months. Just how much damage has this guy caused Aruba??

I think a good question is why has Beth stopped telling the truth about Aruba?

Debbie posts here, also.  Perhaps she will verify if this letter is actually from Robin and Dave.  Better yet, perhaps Red will call Dave and get it straight from horses' mouth, so to speak.  

I'm reserving judgment until I hear it from someone I trust (Red or Klaas) or from Dave himself.

I only speak for myself. But someone wants this boycott over and I have no idea who .

Mark or whoever wants those that work so hard to help de-motivated.

Some riddle are not meant to be solved.... huh Shango lololololololol

Brokering a deal with the Dutch?  Perhaps.  Beth, Dave, Robin stop publicly stating what they know about Aruban corruption while the Dutch investigate the case.  I would believe that.  They may have put everything on hold while the case is being investigated.  Once the investigation is over, they still have the same information they had before it started and can then reveal it.

Well, my HOPE is that Beth and Dave actually KNOW something that we don't! (namely, that the Dutch HAVE solved this and are merely crossing the "t's" and dotting the "i's".)

robots and I kinda think this may be true -- but it is very difficult to actually trust!!

We can only speculate, but I have seen no reason to stop warning people about the dangers in Aruba.  The recent gang violence is one more piece of evidence to add to the pile.

I sent a PM to Debbie. Maybe she will come and verify the post from Robin.

Clever post Dayhiker.

I am pretty sure that post is from Robin!!

AZLady you make a good point.  What if part of the deal is that they never release the information they have.

fer real Pharrel...

how would you have liked to have been caught in that?

Thanks Easy.

Also Thanks San.

Rob  I was trying to remember the names of the other who had contact with Aruba. Thanks for posting the names, Max, Buddy or Gary. Hmmm maybe even Amy.

I agree.

AZLady - I'm almost 100% certain that post is indeed from Robin Holloway.  I know she posts there.  I also know she is friendly with people I consider the enemy and I don't know why.  These are people that have said behind her back some really nasty things about Natalee and Beth.

Does anyone know...?

If the Dutch have solved this and are dotting the i's and crossing the t's, and if they have evidence that Joran contributed to the disappearance of Natalee can they arrest him in Holland?  If so, would they send him back to Aruba for a trial or could they try him in Holland?

O/T - POLICE IN CANTON, OHIO, INVESTIGATING ABANDONED NEWBORN GIRL IN CASE OF MISSING PREGNANT MOM

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews

Do you think perhaps it is a matter of semantics?  The dangers in Aruba for American tourists are very visible now, and with gangs rioting in the streets and stealing police cars, that is not a safe of pleasant place for tourists to venture.  I no longer think Aruba can call itself safe judging by our Crime thread--which has had many, many hits, by the way.  Does it really change anything if Robin, Dave or even Beth say they do not support a boycott of Aruba?  Aruba is not safe for tourists--that is obvious to anyone who looks at the facts.  Does Aruba really think that Robin, Dave or Beth can wave a magic wand that says "boycott begone" and the tourists will come pouring back?  How naive and ignorant is that?

O/T and OMG

Baby Found Near Where Woman Disappeared

Jun 19, 6:10 PM (ET)

By JOE MILICIA
 
CANTON, Ohio (AP) - A newborn girl was found in a basket on a doorstep 45 miles from where a pregnant woman vanished, authorities said Tuesday.

A DNA sample was taken from the infant Tuesday and was given to authorities investigating the disappearance.

Thomas Maurer, sheriff in neighboring Wayne County, said the baby was less than 24 hours old, and that officials are using "every caution we can" to eliminate the possibility that the baby is related to the missing woman, Jessie Davis.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070619/D8PS595O0.html

It has always been a safety issue with me as well.  Aruba advertised itself as practically crime free with hardly any violent crimes.  That's just not true and a tourist does not have a chance if he should get caught up in their legal system.  If high schools have stopped allowing the place to be promoted as a destination for graduating seniors, and parents have wised up to the fact that anything under the sun could happen to their kids on such a trip, then some good has been done.

Sam, actually a big misconception is that Amy disappeared while on Aruba... that doesn't seem to be correct and it happened near Curacao as the ship was docking possibly. That is from Amy's site. Same Dutch system tho-


AMY is an American citizen who 'vanished' while aboard a foreign vessel in international waters. She was leisurely traveling with her mother, father and younger brother aboard the cruise ship Rhapsody of the Seas (a Norwegian Flag Ship) which is owned and operated by Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines of Miami, Florida. The cruise ship was near docking procedures into port in the island of Curacao, Netherlands Antilles, the Caribbean. It is known that Amy left her Cabin in the wee hours of the morning of March 24, 1998, with her cigarettes and lighter...predictably she was not wearing shoes because where she thought she was going, she would not be gone long and would not need her shoes. This is where the mystery begins! Who was Amy going to meet at this time of the morning? Why would she take her cigarettes and lighter? There are many questions here that need answering, but unfortunately neither Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines nor any Government authorities are providing any answers and, at this time, it appears that neither of these entities are making any inquiries at all regarding Amy's disappearance.

I will continue to ask my family and friends not to go to Aruba until this is solved.

That's a shame, Klaas.  I wonder if she is naive or trying to play two ends against the middle.  Very dangerous, either way.  I hope she does not under-estimate the magnitude of the internet or the strength of the people who inhabit the blogs and discussion groups.

I agree Easy.

San and Klaas- OMG is right. I hope this isn't what it could appear to be.

Not always behind her back......

BFN has IP logging. Debbie can tell where a post comes from.

I honetly don't think she is as calculating as you are hinting at.

of course I agree.

Rob skerrry new avatar!

Perhaps someone has been threatened..... :?: one or more peeps?? :shock:

Ditto.  It's always been about safety for tourists and the individual's decision of where to spend their travel bucks.

Then, naive?

 TY San.

I would call it trusting.......open.

Want me to put your hair on it? or better yet, how 'bout your hair on Easy's Avatar? LOL  whattya say BB?

?? What is your opinion?

Yikes, new AVI?  Skeery.. those glow i the dark green eyes...lol

:idea: Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer...?
Quote by: Sun-tzu Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC).

Now that would be funny!

I honestly think many people had the notion that a trip to Aruba would probably be safer than a trip to Panama City Beach for spring break.  If parents had known half of the stuff we have learned over the past tow years, I just don’t think they would have been supportive of an organized trip such as the one Natalee joined.

Well Carnut, if that is the case.. that proves the point that island ain't safe. Who haven't they threatened? Grandma? the paper boy? they're a bunch of ass clowns on that island.

Boycott goes ON!

Wouldn't be the first time someone was threatened..When you scratch underneath the surface of Aruba things become clearer. Let us not forget who owns that Holiday Inn in Aruba and the type of Individuals who are in that Govt and where there influences come from.

I have to say that openness and trusting are not the best way to deal with people like those in Aruba.  We've seen this many times in the past two years.

Exactly AZLady.  It got us squat.

Hi Angie ~ you mean about the missing woman, Jessie? I have no idea. Kids turn up sometimes, maybe it's just a timing thing that looks suspicious. What do you think?

I know this, her mom says she would have called if she could have... so I seriously doubt she left all on her own.

I am not carnut, lol..I am Nut44x4 in Maine.....and I totally agree w/ you.

Besides, it seems to be a bit late to call off the boycott when Aruba's tourism tanked some time ago.  Too little, too late.

You leave Easy's avatar alone! I am a personal friend of that sock monkey, and as lovely as BB's hairstyle is, it's not meant for a sock monkey!!!  :lol:

I think we have watched they way the family has to deal with them. We don't actually have to deal with them.

Oh come on BT we need a laugh.

lol... my fault. Nut44x4.. I apologize.

Mark ... you hypocrite!!

Prior to your connection with the Holloways you submitted posts to various Natalee forums ... posts discrediting/demeaning Natalee, Beth, Dave and the MB students while upholding ... to the limit ... Julia Renfro and the Aruban tourist industry.  I have a compilation of your despicable posts and ...

Why Dave and Robin have chosen to form an alliance with the enemy is beyond my comprehension.  

Janet

This baby thing is wild!  I can't even imagine something like that, if it does turn out to be the missing woman's baby.   :shock:

(http://www.makezine.com/blog/frontcrotch.jpg)

I agree.  We've seen the Holloway's and Twitty's attempt to deal with the Arubans with openness and trust.  We watched them deceived and lied to over and over again.  We saw Arubans in the media and on the blogs dissemble and lie about their "system."  We even heard an Aruban say, "Everyone lies."  I don't believe that anyone can deal with people like this using a trusting and open attitude.

I don't understand it either Janet

are you saying that to egg me on? I see your reverse psychology over here BT  :lol:

and is it egg or  or  or what is it anyway?  :?  :lol:

 :lol:

OMG! Too cute!!  :lol:

If this letter from Robin truely represents how Dave feels, then it is his choice. I guess he has to do what he has to do to get through this whole mess.
 However, they must remember it is also our choice if we Do not want to send our loved ones there.
If anyone I care about ever wants to go there I will do my best to talk them out of it. We have seen what Aruba is about.
Hell No, we won't go.

...and what 2 year old says ,"Mommy's in the rug" if they didn't see something?

Thank you Klaas.

I was hold my breath ... I though I was about to be banned.

Janet

 I dunno what to think?  2 yr old says mommy broke the table.. mommy is in the rug.. then a baby found in a basket thats 45 miles away?
 I read the article.. and it stated DNA was taken from the baby?
I assume the baby is alive?
  I dont wanna bugger up the thread here with this.. dont want anyone to get mad since there is the letter to talk about that Robin posted.

Rob - I wouldn't even attempt to reverse your psycholgy.  :lol:

And I don't know the answer to your question, although I've always wondered about that "egg on" phrase myself.  :D

Posted by Medleyrelay at FOB regarding the "Joran" poster at FOB:

To all the trolls that might not know - as I posted it at the good FOB - this is NOT Joran

There speaks a woman of the Viet Nam era.  :wink:

I saw that..Is there confirmation that all the dutch(NH) investigators have left the island?? Apparently they are discussing easy's post at FOB2.

:lol:

EASY posted earlier today that they have left but are supposed to return in a couple weeks...or something like that.

How much do you want to bet that post of ROBIN'S about the boycott will be in BONDIA tomorrow?  :wink:

I was called a troll all day on the UK board, so they must mean me!!!! :D  :D  :D  me happy!!

anyone witness that 'throw down'?

 :roll:  No shit Meds.. its probably YOU yourself!

She says she posted at the good FOB, there Is no Good FOB....geesh

Lmaoooooooo @ BB and the Mr. T Sock Monkey...
Some funny Mr. T wavs from The A-team show, lol...  :smt081
http://mrt.sciamachy.net/jibbajabba/index.html

Forum: Natalee Holloway   Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:41 am   Subject: Lively Case Discussion #641 6/16 - 6/19/2007
I hear that the Dutch team will be temporarily leaving Aruba. They plan to return in a couple of weeks after examining some items of interest at their labs in Holland.

  ROFL
 No.. but they locked that thread.. I been reading it here and there and dont kow where the new one is to read.

Why did they call you a troll? Was this the Maddy McCann board?

  :)

Storming there yet Elaine? it is here..

Angie - we got a whole inch of rain here today!  :D  :D  :D

There's another one.

I'll send it to you, but they're all asleep now anyway...

LOL  Like we couldn't figure that one out!

In capital letters!

   Awesome BT!

  Thank you..

My grandkids ... all five of them!  Klaas .. that is how sure I am that Robin's words will be plastered over every Aruban publication that has been on a mission for over two years to create the smokescreens that has been denying Natalee Holloway justice.

Janet

Angie it is coming soon, getting dark with clouds now.

Hmmm huh! Because I'm not throwing the parents under the bus. I work for MME ~ McCann Media Enterprises. And I have my head up Gerry's ass and I'm possibly Clarence Mitchell the Family spokesperson. I could go on and on...  :D  :lol:  :D

Will you send it to me to please?

And, by the way, you look like you've lost a lot of weight suddenly - your face is kind of bony looking.

Rob - go ahead and post the current link to the Maddie UK forum, TIA

Yes, and it's a shame.  I really can't believe Robin and Dave wish to contribute to the smokescreen.  Actually, it was after he became convinced of the official coverup that Dave was persuaded to agree with the boycott.  This is ironic...

 Its picth black here.. thunder and a good downpour.. nothing major! Wish we could share the rain with those who need it!

OK Thanks! Personally I think Dave is caught in the middle as this has to be extremely stressfull on his marriage and the whole family.  We know recently Realty and MIP6 have been pressuring everyone where they stand on the Boycott and that post really is no surprise to me. I would like to comment further but I will keep my comments to myself for the time being.

Good Day monkeys :smt039

I see things have been busy in here today :shock:

May be by them & true may not be.

We have been told by how many  people that "The Boycott" is having NO EFFECT!  

Has anyone ever seen any newspaper article saying that Aruba's economy has and is being hurt by a Boycott or an Official Statement of some sort that all Arubas would see?
Or how about a poll of Arubans asking if any Boycott is hurting them?

If it is legit.. that is their views not mine.

Besides I think a Boycott would have been started whether the family wanted one of not.
JMO

 :oops:  Perhaps Dana can have Dave and Robin on his next show?

ROFLMAO!

You know, it might be just semantics (or not), but I think what is needed is an INFORMATION CAMPAIGN.  A boycott might be a result of that campaign, but the choice to visit or not visit Aruba is each individual's choice.  After all, Aruba started their "disinformation campaign" very early on.  Perhaps we need to call this our INFORMATION CAMPAIGN to tell everyone about the crime and corruption on Aruba.  Then people can make up their own minds about traveling to a dangerous, drug-infested island with no law enforcement or protection.  How bout that?

I would gladly give them some too!

main board -
http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=3

most are in well wouldn't you know

**Warning not for the faint of heart and if you don't like RU... you need to stay the heck away from here. People say some really terrible things**

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1170&start=0
*JackyR hangs tuff and doesn't take their shenanigans lightly and gets more heat than me.*

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1164&start=0
*Personal attacks need to stop*

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1051&start=0
*All this Madeleine vitriol*

I warn you not to click those links... some of those people are seriously mentally deranged.

OF wrote ;



Not since 2006.

Good idea...Information Campaign.

Question is all seriousness -

If Dave has written a book called Corruption in Paradise and he says himself it's bad... what can be done other than a boycott? I mean this in all candor.....

just pack it all up and forget about it? or is there another avenue to explore and turn to?

Hubby is sitting here watching TV with me, and I just now said to him, "What kind of paper is the Mirror?"

His reply, "A trashy little tabloid - why?"  :lol:  :lol:

Nice 'Observation' *******.  Great post.

I think they mean "hurt feelings". You know people like Arubagirl etc.

And I can't help but keep wondering why out of the blue they'd choose now to post that -- sumpin' ain't adding up IMO.

Simon says  :lol:  and he's right!!!!!

The travel show demonstrators passively do the right thing. They remind the public about the case, and spread the wordabout the crimes.
Here 30,000 readers at the Crime thread.

Let's not tell him - he'll get the big head.  :lol:

Now that something I can latch onto.  Kiss their ass to gain an ounce of hope that they can finally find their precious daughter.  Even if she's been crammed into a fishtrap and dumped into the ocean by the murdering raping VanDerSloot family.

Don't forget Hotshot and *******.

Nope..
What I meant to say is
Has anyone conducted a poll of Arubans and asked if they thought their economy was be impacted negatively by any type of "Boycott" or just by the actions of their elected officials. :lol:

IndyDan and all, if that be the case, that this poor family has to kiss more ass after all the ass kissing they have already done for two years. OMG!
This case has to be one of the biggest cases of injustice for American tourists we have seen in awhile.
People will Not forget this, for a long, long time.

Now I'm going to get bashed for this, but the tourism numbers are on the rise. Robin and Dave have likely seen this. The boycott is not having alot of effect at this point. IMO.This is what I have read. Everyone needs to make their own personal choice that's the bottom line. If it were my child that disappeared I would continue to ask for a boycott. BUT,if that request was no longer having any effect, the next move might be to suspend the boycott, possibly at the request of officials, to gain whatever co-operation I could. This would also bring Natalee's name into the media again.

That would be interesting to see!
 Be back in a bit, lightening here!

You are officially "Knighted".  Nice job!

 Rob.. err. I mean Clarence?  :wink:  TY for the links.

I think that's why most of us are here posting in disbelief of the BFN message.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=182868&highlight=#182868

June 18, 2007


Dayhiker wrote:
 
I am reposting this again for the benefit of those who didn't see them. Aruba's numbers are declining continually in 2007. The occupancy rate is 82%, down from last year and they supposedly have less rooms thi year which should have made that number go up.

Their passenger arrival numbers are dismal. Business was booming in April of 2005 before they decided to disappear Natalee.

CENTRAL BANK OF ARUBA-
TOURISM NUMBERS APRIL 2005-2007

APRIL 2007

Available data show that the average occupancy rate of hotels for April 2007 edged up by 0.7 percentage point to 81.8 percent, after falling slightly by 0.5 percentage point to 82.0 percent for March 2007. The Aruba Tourism Authority has not yet published the data on tourist arrivals and nights spent on the island for March and April 2007.

Since February 2007, the number of cruise passengers has been declining. This number fell again in April and May 2007 by, respectively, 17.3 percent and 25.8 percent, in spite of a 3.4 percent rise in ship calls in April 2007 and a notable 75 percent hike in May 2007. A major factor for this development was the cancellation as of January 2007 of the weekly visits of the Carnival Cruise Lines to Aruba.

In March 2007, the consumer price index went up by 5.0 percent, compared to the corresponding month a year earlier. In contrast, the annual average inflation rate decelerated to 3.7 percent, down from 3.9 percent in March 2006. The consumer price index for April 2007 has not yet been published by the Central Bureau of Statistics.

APRIL 2006

In January 2006, the number of stay-over visitors and their nights spent on the island fell by 15.8 percent and 10.3 percent, respectively, compared to the corresponding month in 2005. The Aruba Tourism Authority has not yet published the data on tourist arrivals and nights spent on the island for February, March and April 2006. However, according to the Department of Immigration, air passenger arrivals dropped by 14.7 percent during the first quarter of 2006 compared to the corresponding quarter a year earlier.

APRIL 2005

The Aruba Tourism Authority has not yet published information on the number of stay-over tourists and their nights spent on the island for the months of March and April 2005. Data on the average hotel occupancy rate show a 0.4 percentage point increase to 85.4 percent compared to the corresponding month of 2004. In April 2005, both cruise passenger arrivals and the number of ship calls rose notably by 15.8 percent and 12.9 percent, respectively, compared to April 2004.


Dayhiker wrote:

JAMAICA TOURISM INCREASES FROM 2005 to 2006

Total Stop-Overs- 13.5% INCREASE

Cruise passengers- 17.6% INCREASE

Tourists from U.S.- 9% INCREASE

Janet,
  TY .. you read my mind.. cause I recalled Dayhiker posting . Im not good with looking up posts.. :oops:

I think there is some wisdom in allowing Beth to weigh in on this as well.

hey Angie do you like my hat?

Don't you have a tiara that fits, ROFLMAO

Too funny  :lol:  :lol:

 I agree with Beth weighing in on this as well.

LOL.. is it a kittys bday?  cute...

BB No bashing here.

I just don't see what any of it has done to help get Natalee home. They just don't care one way or the other. They didn't seem to care they were being boycotted and they surely didn't seem to care that a little girl was missing on their island.

Bottom line in my opinion ~ They don't care and have to live with the decisions they have made. Can't undo the past bad decisions.

jmo anyway

Awwwwwwwww................

oh this is High Cotton, he doesn't like tiaras  :lol:  :lol:

little none is sending a happy birthday message to a serviceman/husband of a friend she volunteers with, so she made a special hat for the pets to wear  :lol:  :lol:

honestly even though we aren't as optimistic as at other times that the KPLD will affect an arrest, I actually think that the Dutch would have never come back to Aruba nor gotten involved if not for the boycott.

I'm truly interested in Beth's opinion and I'd also like to hear Jossy's as well.

 oh no a Tiara?  I see DOA made an appearence elsewhere lately.. Im sure you read it..   :roll:  :roll:

CARPE VISION - TRIBUTE TO AMERICAN SOLDIERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsp_OixG_5I

CARPE KIX ASS!!!!

That is the cutest avatar. My Kats do not stand for pictures, never mind a hat like that. As soon as they see the camera, they want to come right up to it and Kat lick the lens.
I did peek in from work, have to read back about this lates. BBL

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sophie.jpg)

That cat looks totally disgusted with having to wear that tiara!!!  It's like he/she knows....   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Hi all,

I posted this earlier before the thread locked so reposting again for those who might have missed it... :D

------------

Yep it's true...

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z215/kickradio/smradiochannel.jpg)

Thanks to Red and Tom the Scared Monkeys Radio hosted by Dana Pretzer is now it's own channel on Kickradio thanks to the Media Broadcast Network and ScaredMonkeys.com...

http://www.popmyradio.com

Each episode after it occurs will now be placed on the channel and you will be able listen to Dana Pretzer as you sleuth the web in search of news and clues...

Be sure to disengage any popup stoppers your software might have in order to access the portable kickradio radio player... a pop-up instruction page will appear and then the portable radio -- and, once you are there hire is how you can find the channel... It should start playing for you almost instantly in our enhanced mode....

At Kickradio and MBN we are very pleased to help host and promote this very important talk radio program...

 :lol:  :lol:

  :) Little None has a big heart!

Aren't there laws about doing things like that to innocent little animals? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I dont think the Boycott really has ever been very active. Wait until Beth's Book comes out. Just wait when people see documented facts about this so called Aruban Investigation and more Info is released. No one has to ever mention the word Boycott all you have to do is show them the facts. No wonder Dompig started this Shield Group of Aruba. They expected people to start attacking there Govt and other's involved in the corruption and coverup.

You are welcome Angie ... Dayhiker and Kermit are the statistic guys.

Unless there is an alternative to a voluntary boycott .... an alternative that will put pressure on the "powers that be" in Aruba to afford justice to Natalee Holloway ...

The principle is absolute ... if an individual or nation is not going to do  right because it is right ... strength not appeasement is the answer.

The "powers that be" in Aruba who had knowledge or were involved in the coverup in the Natalee Holloway case are not about to afford justice to Natalee just because her father and step mother are cooperative.  Has Dave forgotten ... he tried that route once ... it did not work.

Janet


The reality is that we must find peace through strength.
... Ronald Reagan, 1983

The tourism numbers are  compared to 2006 which for the most part showed a decline over previous years. A very unofficial marker is try to book a flight to  aruba for say this saturday from jfk, or next saturday all flights are full, and jetblue flies 2xdaily. Believe me I am not happy about this. It is just what I see. As far as the occupancy rates, I do not understand them. Some hotels timeshares are under construction so not fit for occupancy, I don't know how these figure in the equation. Then there are places that always seem to have rooms available because they are so poor they are not worth it no matter the cost ie Mill Resort.

http://www.jetblueairways.com/cgi-bin/skylights.cgi
 

http://tinyurl.com/2bgmk3

The dark side is taking Robin's letter apart line by line.  Kind of a no win situation.

Klaas !!!!!!!!!!! ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Angie, actually I haven't read any posts in the cootie zone  :lol:

Yep

I don't really want to go and read there. Are they saying it's a good thing? I thought they would be very happy.

Those people never see good in anything! lol

They think it is that Dave and Robin want a free trip to Aruba.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/Muzzydog/shocked019.gif)

 
He did a great job... Watched it, almost over. God Bless those soldiers and the oned who lost thier lives,,.. and have suffered any illness due to war.  :(  

Good job Carpe.

Evening Monkeys

I won't stop spreading the news that Aruba is an unsafe place to visit.
IMO if Robin is sucking up with the likes of MIP6 & Reality she may as weel be best friends with Renho & the Slootytoots.

Flight Occupancy is no indicator! How many total flights/seats are they flying today than in 2005? After 9/11 -- airlines flights were "full" but they had 30% fewer flights -- of course the remaining flights were full.

LOL!! A couple of the posters are saying that beth is spending her money from the Safe Travel Foundation on her own cosmetic surgery.

BB
I agree with you .. If the statement true... they may be doing what they feel is best  

But until Dave & Beth come out in the Media and state something like


Then I might change my views
JMHO  of course

None of them have normal feelings about anything and would eat their own children if they were hungry.  So, they can’t understand someone having compassion for others.

Remember in Jorans book or is it in Deepacs staement they say they sometimes rent rooms to hold a party in and I believe he may have mentioned Mill Resort.

 :lol:  :lol:  Bunch of guppies!!!!!

That's what really bothers me about all of this.  If those two are dictating what happens, then I want no part of it.

When I consider MIP6's despicable past posts submitted to various Natalee forums that discredit Natalee, Beth, Dave and the MB Kids as well as upholding Julia Renfro and the Aruban tourist industry  .... I alway considered him the dark side.  The words of his post submitted to BFN commended Dave and Beth Holloway on their decision to reconsider their support of the boycott.

Janet

Realty/MIP6 have been pressuring Debbie,Dave and Robin where they stand on the boycott for weeks. Looks like they got the answer they wanted.

He has had two years to get off that barstool and help if he wanted to.  Instead he chose to blast Beth and Natalee at every opportunity.  He only slightly changed his tune after he started spending the day on the telephone with Robin.  WTH is he going to do now that might help?

We are confident that accountabilty at all levels is at hand.
Well, that is a sentence that leaves a person wondering, n'est pas ?
..
As far as what Beth spends her money on... I do not care. She gets a speakers fee and probably expenses to cover her costs. Should she go penniless ? Should she wear sackcloth and ashes and tear her hair out until the end of her days ? Maybe she should only have a glass of water and a crust of bread each day. And sleep on a bed of nails. Would that make the cooty posters happy ?

FYI - Looks like MIP6 has deleted that post now  :wink:

They cared about the boycott. They didn't care about the missing tourist past the extent it would influence tourism and this is the sad part.

You know, whether you call something a boycott or not doesn't matter. If more people are made aware of unsafe conditions, and choose not to travel somewhere because of that, it still has the same effect.

It also doesn't matter how much someone publicizes that a place is safe, if all the evidence shows that it isn't.

Travelers simply need to have access to solid information and vote with their travel dollars.

Is the M1P guy trying to be Archbishop Desmond Tutu ?
Job is taken.
Come together ?  
Not on your life buddy. Not after what I have read over at Cootie Central.
I do not support hatred or lies. Why doesn't one of the family write an open letter to FOB or RU ? And tell them to wash their mouths out with soap. I can't say worse in print.

Mammal assault= Mammophil

He probably learned that from Reality. He deletes all of his posts to.

Evening monkeys! What's going on tonight? Is Beth writing a book? Where is this letter from Dåve and Robin? What have I missed? TIA!

I so agree Kat_Gram,
It is her foundation. She is the one doing the work and getting paid for it. She should be able to do what she pleases with her earned income the same way those posters can spend their earned income the way they please.

For some strange reason, I am all of a sudden looking forward to Carla's show tomorrow.... beats the hell outta this crap tonight anyway.

Who really wants to see anyone not supporting the boycott?

If this was the case along.... I should have just kept going and I would have my Friends of Aruba Certificate by now... not to mention the hours spent and dollars doled.

Now all I'm in line for is public enemy number one!!!!

Man -  this blows.

I still hope you "insiders" here are following this up w/ Dave, Beth, etc.!!

what blows Rob? What have I missed?

Sorry screwed up the quote above post.

JetBlue was the airline I used. They weren't flying to Aruba in 2005. Now they fly 2x daily from JFK.

IMO
 It was only the darksiders that attributed the initial boycott to Beth and/or Dr. Phil.  By that time, I recognized two problems: JK2 had done something to Natalee AND for some reason, there was some type of cover up vs. total ineptness.  Before the letter to boycott was published (which included parents and stepparents), I believe other avenues had been pursued (Jug requested no boycott, originally; Dave figured there was corruption).  By this time, it wouldn't have mattered what Beth or Phil or anyone would have said.  This island was off my list.
Only people educated in the "do what I say" leadership style, would even think Beth or any family member had or have the power to dictate my thoughts.
This island is dependent on tourism.  The leadership benefit from the tourism.  The only way to make a difference is to attempt an economical influence.  I also have seen the numbers and by viewing the picture sites, it appears to me, that fewer Americans are partying.
Some people rethink and try a "turn the cheek" "Christian" approach.  Some planners know how to pull the strings on these people.  I say remember the crusades.  Being nice was tried (I can hear the "the people have been so helpful"...still).  

Janet, I agreed with everything you posted.

Yep - so there's no evidence  :wink:

I was just kidding Mishy.

How ya been? I sure hope terrific! :D

I've been OK Rob. I like your fun, new avatar  :lol: How YOU doin?

I think it will be a very interesting show and I’m sure it will ruffle some feathers.  But, I just don’t see it as a serious aspect of the investigation.

I am making the assumption that any Trust is subject to the laws of the land. If they have a charitable donation registration number for the tax deduction, then there are laws that govern the trust thru your IRS. And statements have to be filed. I am speaking from a Canadian perspective, but the US laws have to be comparable.
Her speakers fees are different, it would be like earnngs.
What Beth does is subject to too much scrutiny over there. They just talk thru their ass*s.

So, is Beth writing a book? And where can I find this letter?

 :?:  :?:  :?:

BY the way - - -

Michael Bloomberg has left the GOP.. see good news is always one click away.  :)  :D  :)

He remain unaffiliated with a political party and reality.

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_170181024.html

What I am saying is you have to take into account ALL airline flights into Aruba now as compared to 2005. Has American or Delta cut daily flights?? I believe so. Also, I believe Jet Blue used to fly there more than 2x a day (not sure).  Are American and Delta flying smaler planes there now?? You must look at the BIG picture!

Here is the link to the post (not letter) that was posted by Robin at BFN:

http://tinyurl.com/39x3ed


As far as Beth writing a book, I think she is but I know nothing about it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to infer you were an "insider!! :D  I was trying to make a point for ANYONE that might have access to dave or Beth to track down  a response!

Klaas ... I learned a long time ago that you have to be really really quick at cutting and pasting Reality and MIP6's dispicable posts prior to them going "poof".  Reality and MIP6's words can be retrieved at a moment's notice from Tamikosmom's desktop files ... which are backed up once a week for safe keeping.

Janet

Thanks so much Klaas...I'll read it now. Anything else going on? I hope Beth IS writing a book...I'd buy it!

Well Easy I sure hope it will be ... ah...ah.. let's say informative. I'm not holding my breath, but if she is going to go into another investigation I am interested because I know some of the detail in the cases I have mentioned.. details no one knows and I have not discussed... so if she really hits on something pertaining to the cases of Max, Buddy or Gary, I will know. That's where my interest comes in.

She might just be talking about something else altogether.

As you know, there are a bunch of people missing and she could end up being very vague.

If she names names... I'll be intrigued. [/list]

Rob I also look forward to hearing what Carla has to say.

1. It keeps Natalee in the news.
2. I know these are supposed to be so called Psychics but hopefully they have at least did a little research and will be as informative as Greta.

There are some old used bricks sitting out in the yard that are as informative as Greta.

Kat_Gram ???
Did you missunderstand my post that you copied this from ??

Sam- I don't totally dismiss psychics, just 99% thats all.

I agree, it keeps Natalee's name out there and some people actually believe someone like her over a real investigative report or journalist.

Some people still believe that studio rasslin is real... :D

Things that make you go hmmmmm. I do know that Dave was very reluctant to support the boycott, but then the gloves came off after they refilled and set fire to the landfill and a number of other things they pulled...No matter what they say, I don't feel like Aruba is safe enough to take my family and will continue to recommend that my family/friends and even strangers on the street stay away from there. However, these feelings have nothing against the Aruban people, despite CharlieRat's assessment of me   :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

3. plus if she names names I hope Boeti is not in there. :lol:

I think it will be very interesting whether a person believes in psychics, or not.  A friend was with them when she hit a hot spot on one of the beaches and he said it was fascinating to watch what took place.  She told me that she went back with her crew that night to the same location and did another reading.  Things got very strange on the second visit.

Don't tell Carla, but I have never watched her show before. lol  So, I am as curious as everyone else.

Blonde - Do you have that picture taken of that sign in the Moomba about the 123 out of 124 students leaving Aruba?

Well what would one expect from ugly people with sad lives and nothing else to do but to relish in someone elses's misery. Can't even think about how they deal with everyday life.

Thank you San. That basically says it all, now don't it?

Hi to all!

The only thing I have seen about Beth’s new book is this.

It’s to be entitled, “Loving Natalee,” and will published by Harper Collins.

http://tinyurl.com/2kd223

(17 lines from the bottom, on Virginia Stanley’s list)

Easy, Carla is worried for her life after the airing of this show tomorrow, according to one preview.  Do you know if this has to do with Natalee’s case?

Allison Dubois that  TV show the Medium  is based on says Joran is guilty. I can't remember which program that came from. I believe her. :lol:

That's because she names names and some of those names are in positions of power.

O/T

For those still following the story of the missing 911 operator from my area, her family has now started a website.

http://www.findtheresaparker.com/

Thanks.... We want her to name names.  But we don't want her to be in danger!

Hey no problem..
Just wanted to make sure that certain statements are not attributed to someone else and the meaning being miss-understood.

But she keeps Natalee's name  in the news!!

Information found at Amazon.com - on the bottom of the forum page:

Loving Natalee: A Mother's Testament of Hope and Faith (Hardcover)
by Beth Holloway (Author)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
List Price: $24.95  
Price: $16.47 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details  
You Save: $8.48 (34%)  



Pre-Order Price Guarantee! Order now and if the Amazon.com price decreases between your order time and release date, you'll receive the lowest price. See Details  
 
 
Availability: This title will be released on October 2, 2007. Pre-order now! Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.

Names names, eh ?
What time is the program on / I don't get the program and have to work 2 extra hours tomorrow, maybe I'll do it early.

Just my opinion but I don't think the post supposedly from Robin has any weight whatsoever in the case, unless perchance Greta or some other pro-Joran media person makes a big deal out of it on our TV tonight. Let the refuseniks think what they want, they all live in alternative reality anyway. The boycott IS working and WILL continue. Dave wasn't for it initially and it still went forward. I know that Dave has never been 100% sold that a boycott is the right approach to take.

So... what's the problem?

It is nothing but PROPAGANDA, a game of one-upmanship. If we make a big deal out of it, the dark side will derive strength from that and use it publicly against us. It is like an Al-Qaida video. It's meant to get attention.

My policy has always been to find out what your enemies want at the bottom line, and then DENY them that thing. The bottom line for them is public opinion and propaganda. So let's make it a non-issue.

I vote we put it on "ignore" and yawn at it. It will have NO power then People in this country are still just as scared of Aruba as before, unless they're in cahoots with tourism, timeshares and the Mob, then they want to go down there. Good. Let 'em. Maybe it will be a one-way trip for THEM, too.  :wink:

I still would like to know why part of Carla's crew was detained. She said they had to keep moving locations. A couple of psychics cant even go to Aruba without obstruction from the ALE. :?

Hello Monkeys.  Lots of monkeys in the cage today and something to discuss as well.
I have given a lot of thought to that post from Robin H, and it appears to me to be an attempt to pacify the Aruban side of the investigation.  Reminds me somewhat of when Beth had to apologise to ensure the investigation (such as it was) to continue.
Also I feel that Robin must have found it very difficult in the circumstances of Natalee's disappearance and knowing that her husband had been thrown back into close proximity with his ex-wife.  Not an easy situation whomever the people involved and how amicable the previous separation/divorce had been.  Possibly this is Robin's concession in an attempt to get her family situation back to where it was before Natalee's enigma.  I hope it does not mean that she has been blind-sided by persons with a strictly mercenary agenda.
Personally I would prefer to see Dave make the statement and not just have his name tacked on to the post or better still hear direct from Beth or her lawyers who have the prime responsibility for any official release.
I cannot see how it would make any difference anyway as we all live in a free country with free speech and the ability to make up our own minds and act upon the conclusions we come to, without having to be led like sheep on someone else's whim.
I agree that we should continue our efforts to make intending tourists aware of the dangers that can await them and the lack of any real assistance or compassion from the authorities involved, be it on Aruba or any other destination that is less than safe for visitors.

Rob wrote;



I don't think there will be any news about Max, Buddy, or Gary. That is unless their families asked for her to investigate. I saw an interview with her on TV and she said she only investigates cases she is asked to do so.

She may name names, but Easy, is it about the Natalee case, or another case that she "names names?"

This is from Mark Purcell's (MIP6) son's Myspace site.  His son is a bartender at Moombas:


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/148421624_l.gif)

East ... was that the image that Mark Purcell's son posted on his website?

Janet

Hi Monkeys... I see discussion regarding soemthing Robin wrote, but I didn't see what she said what page should I look on?

Thanks MeMere

 :?   I think at one time ,  a long time ago  If we went thru the the Amazon Link at the bottom of the page It helped SM some way  :?
Somebody help the OldF  rememeber..  please  :?

If they would focus that much attention on their own aruban islanders, it could be a safer, not safe, but safer island.  Focus...did I really say they should focus?   they have no idea what that word means unless they are covering their ass.

That sign tells you what type of crass individuals THEY are.

My personal impression about Robin is that she truly does NOT understand how people draw battle lines in this world. She doesn't want to think of anyone as an enemy.

I have read Dale Carnegie too, and yet, I still realize that some people are against you no matter what, so may as well roll up your sleeves and fight for what you believe in. People are what they are... their essential nature rarely changes, especially as they get older. A CharlieRat, for example, will not suddenly come to our side and want to join the Monkeys.

Aruba is against America, it is against morality, it is against decency, it is all about sex and corruption and violence and lies. PERIOD. They aren't getting my $$$. PERIOD.

And he is offering that for purchase?? OMG :shock:  :shock:

Here's the link to it

http://tinyurl.com/39x3ed

Very cool, thanks EASY

Might want to ask Ruth McVay and Alana Jordan and Lee Broughton and Frances Ellen Byrd and the rest about that viva Aruba foolishness. I don't think that would be their sentiment.

Thought Moomba burnt down due to the bartenders smokin crack....am I wrong?

Yes anytime anyone buys from Amazon from SM it helps support the site... so please, please use the Amazon link from here for all your shopping needs...

Think that was Choose-a Name

Maybe that was what I was thinking about.  I had it in my mind there was a picture taken in the bar with that sign hanging in the background.

Pretty damn disgusting, IMO!

OMG anyone watchin South Park? is like what I dealt with all day on the UK sight... it's too funny!!!!

The kitchen burned down, don't know if it was due to the bartenders smokin crack though  :wink:

Is this the show on CTV, I saw advertised today, that she is on?  Haunted "something"...

Moomba's kitchen burned down too

yeah there too BB.. but there was a fire at Moomba too.

Thanks Mrs. RED
I thought I remembered something on that.. but my memory is not what it used to be ... (I think it was pretty good at one time) :lol:

Well, what else could it be? mixin meth?

I am not going to dare breathe what I truly think.... but I will continue to tell EVERYONE I know NOT to go to Aruba.... there are NO innocent people in Aruba in my opinion - NOT one person stood up and questioned what happened... Aruba called Natalee a whore and worse... so as far as I am concerned there are no innocent people... and that stupid ass poster which actually says F*** You just about sums up how they feel about the whole matter.

Rant Over...

All i know is...

The KLPD first said that their investigation was going to take no more than a few weeks. Then months. Then an extension.

Then searches at 3 points of interest. The Sloot house, the Kalpoe house and the Raquet Club.

This is not being done because there is *no evidence*.  :arrow:  IMO

They all ought to quit smokin' crack  :smt045

Hi Monkeys,  I just can't get it in my head how Robin can post over in those forums, rather than at BFN or SM, the one's who support the family.  I just don't grasp it in my mind.  To me that is going against all the family stands for.  If she at least posted at the pro Natalee sites, and maybe say a thing or two over there, it's one thing.  But it's as if she SUPPORTS there agenda.  Does Dave even know?

I thought is was pretty gosh darn good... just my opinion tho-

Thanks Easy.  I am really anxious to see this show.  I hope we are not disappointed.

Thanks Blonde!  That is representative of the people that are giving Robin guidance and being so helpful in the search for Natalee.  Extemely hard to believe!   :roll:

I agree, they wouldn't be putting so much time and effort in for nothing.  However, the silence is too deafening.

Pip rules!  :lol:

? About The 123 out of 124 advertisement..
Can that be attributed to a business in Aruba?

If so could that be the basis of a sign at any future events where ATA is present..  Just Wondering??

having had a lot of experience with stepmoms, I would say that this and Tibro's post ae pretty acurate.

I agree

Bravo!! great post!!

This particular post was at BFN. Robin has posted at RU and FOB though and I cannot understand why.

Uh yeah, that is an "innocent" Aruban who just wants to help....(note heavy sarcasm)

Interesting that the Kal-puke dump is not in the Godwin Triangle of Death.

MRS RED ROCKS  8)

he does .. doesn't he igsigs!!!!

But still, If my hubby were going through this and having daughters, I may be leary of the ex, but lord, his daughter is missing.  To me, that is just flat out disrespectful and hateful!  Seems like a bitch to me.  How could he put up with that?  The mother of his children...

Yes,  and Robin is still trying to be in a one up on Beth.  very obvious since day one. Dave doesn't have a clue about this. IMO

Not sure if anybody saw my previous post about the show with Carla tomorrow.  Is this the one on CTV?

MIP6 is American. Infact I don't even know how he lives in aruba. Maybe he pays off the government. Maybe he flys home to the US once every 3 months.......don't know.

Yes it is.  I think at 10pm.

Does anybody have an email for Robin?  I would love to just flat out ask her.  What is Dave's email again?

I understand why many see the silence as worrisome, but the last 2 times ALE tried to close the case they combined it with a big PR effort. This time different is better. IMO

thanks Klaas!  :wink:

Yes, it certainly is!

DiHannah... Debbie is Robin's best friend, you can pretty much count on it that Robin posted that, IMO....

Well he needs to know she is undermining him! This isn't about Robin, it's about HIS daughter.  What if it ever becomes her's?  Geesh, how heartless.

I think so Dihannah 1. Haunting evidence. 9pm Wednesday CST.

Klaas, can you just delete that mess at the post of the page please. TIA

Debbies' response to me via PM at BFN when asked about the authenticity of the post from Robin: (I am sure she won't mind me sharing)


Yes, the post was from Robin and Dave.

I can believe they have been detained and harmed..... after all they are on the island of "innocence".....  :roll:   :roll:  :roll:

after all why should the island want to actually help now???

I'll watch the show for entertainment value, but have little belief in the Paranormal at all.  Will be interesting what she comes up with that connects to what we know though, if at all.

Carpe's promos - On Carla's show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmuFxahnDsI
this one has more info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1iHlxaezNk
this one has the guys with the crazy eyes and Carla says she could be in danger.

When was this taped?  Have they been released?  Certainly, CTV would say something if somebody was harmed.  That would hit the MSM, I'm sure.

if the local convenience store was raping and killing people im pretty sure
i would BOYCOTT them.... right after i kicked the living Crap out of em

Klaas, did it say it was also on at 10PM pst?  I thought I was that on the promos.

You know I really do not know what to think of this. I really don't. On one hand I am glad they are giving the story exposure. On the other I say ... where the hell have you been for 2 years!

Name people? Gee ... not like that has not been done. She claims in promo she will be afraid for her life after she makes comments. Hey toots ... join the crowd ... maybe you would like to take a look at the death threat email file we got.

The point being is that does anyone really think that she will come up with something that has already not been discussed here? Really?

Like I said, glad for the case exposure ... just seems a bit exploitive in promos.

So she claims to know who did it?  I'm a little skeptical about this.  But again, will watch to see.  If she found something during the taping, was it reported to the Dutch?  When was this taped?

I think some of us are overestimating Robin... and underestimating Dave. He is much stronger and more no-nonsense than he is given credit for. He is a successful insurance salesman and that tells me that he has persuasive people skills and doesn't give in to opposition easily. He also knows when he is being snowed by people. I don't think that he is at all fooled by Aruba.

I can see where he and Beth would have clashed in major-league fashion.

Robin, I STILL contend, is of the turn-the-other-cheek variety. In marriage, I suspect that Dave DOES show her some deference, mainly because he doesn't want to lose a second wife. But by no means do I see Robin as the stronger of the 2.

My sentiments exactly,  you just said it better than I.  Key word "exploitive".

Klaas, did it say it was also on at 10PM pst?  I thought I was that on the promos.[/quote]

oh boy...meant thought I SAW that on the promos.

oh boy...meant thought I SAW that on the promos.[/quote]

I haven't a clue.  I haven't looked at my local listings yet.

CTV's last few NH shows have resembled tourism commercials.

Maybe ATA bounced their last check to Steve Cohen. :idea:

Explain why she chooses to post at 'Bash the family sites"?  Like I said earlier, it would be different if she posted here and at BFN too.  It's just wrong!

The thing is ,though, that she is Dave's wife, and wives sometimes have ways of being very persuasive with husbands, even no-nonsense husbands.  :wink:

DiHannah and BT - exactly.

what possibly GOOD could come from not supporting the BOYCOTT


KEEP THE PRESSURE ON... thats what i say

She mostly posts (which is rare) at BFN.  Debbie at BFN is her friend.  He has posted a couple times at RU that I know of and I hear she has also posted at FOB.  Mostly though at BFN.

I wasn't aware of that.  Thanks Mrs. Red
Then why doesn't she post there, if Debbie is her best friend?  What does Debbie say about all this?  It just doesn't make sense to me..  That makes it even worse then.  Seems she is snubbing her best friend?

I think it will be an interesting program for several reasons and I am a big time skeptic when it comes to the paranormal.

People in Birmingham reached out to these people and gave them articles of clothing to help with their investigation.  (Some of those people did not much care for Patrick Burns)

They traveled to Aruba and went to several places we have been talking about for two years.  It will be good to see those places as this group walks around trying to tune into whatever it is they tune into.

People in Aruba will be watching this program tomorrow night and it might provoke some emotion from some of them.

Will it do anything to bring closure?  I doubt it, but who knows for certain…..

 :wink:  :wink:  :wink: strength shows in different ways.

Dihannah - you keep missing my posts about that, LOL.  She does post at BFN mostly, when she posts which is rare.  She has posted only a couple times at RU and I believe FOB.

She did post there.

You know, I saw something in her promo, or a snap... Carla is on DePalm Island....how does that tie in? Let's hope this isn't Mr. Pink.

Or did she just take her crew there to do a photo op? I have no idea.

But as far as I can tell DePalm Island is not involved.

When I said I wante to flat out ask her.  I meant, ask her why she posts at those dreadful places, rather than at supportive forums too.  I believe she did post it,  I want to know why THERE!

I think I know where the photo is.. let me look fer a sec.

It will be interesting no doubt... even if it is just to see the places we have discussed...

I just have to say I agree with Mrs. Red. Gee, she rants as good as Mr.

If I remember right from Easy it was filmed in February. Who knows maybe there really is something that caused the Dutch to finally start acting.

If a person really has psychic abilities it would definitley be a gift from God. JMHO

I finally caught it Klaas.  :lol:   I am just still outraged, she would post her letter over there or at all!  THEY aren't the one's who are boycotting.  To me she is stabbing her supporters in the back.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  and I was behaving....  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I think you need to quit spinning for a moment and read what we are trying to tell you! LOL

Easy

You mentioned the KLPD leaving for a couple weeks.  Hadn't the forensic's team already left??  Could this be the investigative branch?  Could they have returned to Holland to followup on perps there??  There does seem to be quite a few "suspects" possibly in Holland.

I also agree with you on this DiHannah... but Beth didn't say it... and it will not change what I think....

Tap.. Tap ...Tap
I have not had the honor of meeting any of Natalees Family.

I can not imagine the heart ache and hell they have gone through

I have not always understood some of the things they have said or done.

I do not have the information they have


But I will be damned if I'm going to critize them for any actions they deem necessary,  even though  I may not agree.

If I WAS to do it I would Join RU  or become active at FOB :twisted:

Can we please stop second guessing family actions.?

I'm not here for that  (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/ANGRY.gif)  if not I think I have as many Guns as SAN.

Thank You
OldFart

The family that rants together...stays together and all that :D  :D  :D

Sam  I totally agree.

Psst.....the letter we're discussing WAS posted at BFN. Honest.  :lol:

If it was in February, then that would be good timing for the Dutch being there.  I still am skeptical about psychics, but if it keeps Natalee in the news or encouraged the Dutch with something to continue the search, then great!  Kudos to Carla!

Actually several of the people that post at BFN are boycotting.

Dihanna she did not post that anywhere else other than BFN. I will post another post after this but first wanted to make that clear.

Not sure who learned what from whom.....  :lol:  :lol:

This looks like DePalm or Sonesta  (Renaissance) Island
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/CarlaDePalmIsland1.jpg)

At least Carla has taste. Carla at the Hyatt
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/CarlaattheHyatt1.jpg)

Thanks Moon Shadows  :D

Robin strikes me as being the type who tries to avoid confrontation at all costs. She may be seeing us as a more confrontational site. I fear that she has been swayed by the smoothness of Aruba's propagandizing machine.

Then again, this could be her subtle way of practicing "Know Thy Enemy".

I'm not sticking up for Robin here so much as I am looking for explanations as to why she has seemingly cozied up to the dark side.

 :shock:  :oops:   OMG,  I am soooo sorry.  I swear I read it was at RU or FOB..... Off my rant now  crawling into corner now----->

Yeah...what you said!  :)

Sorry Robin!  :oops:  :cry:

Noooooo...don't crawl off into the corner. There are so many people posting right now that it's easy to get confused.

Because they attack Beth?  (jealousy thy name is woman)

I personally still disagree with what she said.... but that's just me...

and me!

AZSunny thank you for that one, it was time to say it out loud.

Beth's book is also now on the horizon for release, never underestimate human nature sadly....

Mrs.  I don't necessarily agree with the letter, but I feel bad for almost 'bashing' her for the wrong reason.  I made an incorrect accusation.

Not Easywriter,  but this is a great theory for their return to Holland.  Yes the forensics people left a while ago and now this appears to be the investigators that stayed behind at that time.  Maybe there are some searches in the pipeline in Holland? Or interviews...... we can hope

And me.

Hey everybody...metro here and only have a few minutes...is there a link for that letter?

Monkeys.... I am headed out for the night... work comes wayyyyyyyy too early.... :twisted:

but keep the faith regardless of what happens....

Nite Mrs. Red.  sweet dreams and hope you have a pleasant day at work.

page 3 this thread is a copy Metro

Well, I have stated my opinion many pages back -- but I will briefly repeat.
1) It is possible that Dave is simply "going along to get along" w/ Robin. He has seen the strife and tension from this case break-up Beth and Jug and he is simply TIRED of it all. (who could blame him?) This may have undertones of Robin despising Dave's Ex.

2) This is more of "wishful thinking" -- but plausible:
Robin says 'they are confident that accountability from all is at hand' --- maybe just maybe Beth and Dave know more than they have let on! Maybe the Dutch HAVE solved this and are merely wrapping up the details.*****JMHO

count me in....pissed me off!

Night Mrs.

Good Nite Mrs Red!

This is all I was told.
 
We know of no searches by the racket club. What we do know is that the Dutch team will be leaving Aruba temporarily, to come back within two weeks. Reason, as explained by Rudy Croes, is to examine whatever items they consider of interest in their own specialized laboratories in Holland. They will be back soon to conclude their work on the spot.

The Minister of Justice has been acting as Prime Minister also in the absence of Nel Oduber, who is in China, doing God knows what.

work gets in the way of so much more interesting stuff.....

Night Mrs Red.

I wub you, Cuz.

*****************
Thanks Tibro...

<----off to read and then a business dinner...will catch up with you all later.

NoneS.... :shock:
What in the world did you do to this poor Kitty (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/eb919dc4.jpg)

It does not appear to be a Happy Kitty :D

 :evil:  here too..

I hope you are right, but if that is the case, they can wait till it is over to lift the boycott.  JMHO

Trying to get tourism from Chinese.  They've lost it from everywhere else.  Time to start notifying the poor chinese unaware of the dangers.

Rob - the above photo is on Aruba mainland - it is not DePalm or Renaissance.  As you look at the photo - if you look straight ahead across the harbor it is where CnC is.  The building you see in front of CnC is new constructions - that may be why you did not recognize it.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Here's the link to the post from Robin.  It was posted at BFN:


http://tinyurl.com/39x3ed

Rob - I should add - the top photo is taken from the helicopter launch area..

In case you missed what I said all.  I oppose the letter, I am apogizing for making inaccurate accusations of Robin... I have to admit where I was wrong....  Took me a few pages to finally get it through my head, what I was reading incorrectly. But yes, the boycott must go on!

NO NO NO..
I stated that ... and it was miss quoted  (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/saveit/a02cf38b.gif)

Others have been miss quoted or Miss read a quote tonight too

The top photo is really scary to me because the guy looks exactly like my goofy cousin Ron. In addition to looking like that guy, he wears a really bad wig (that looks like a dead possum on his head.)

Thanks Easy (and Tibro).  Since Rudy is giving the explanation, I choose to believe they have pursuits, other than just lab work.

:smt039
Hi Phantom... which state tonight??

OldFart calm down now  :lol:  :lol:

Personally I like Dave and Robin and I did love Aruba. But I love Justice more. Some things are more important than what you like or love. Personally, I'm sad for the McCanns, but I'm terrified for Madeleine. Same goes for Natalee. I do not want to see Natalee denied. Natalee is dead in my opinion, but that doesn't mean her life meant nothing and a loser and his family should just get go on with theirs. NO EFFIN WAY!!!!

I'm in this til Beth and Dave are satisfied Natalee got her Justice. When that happens, it's over.

The boycott is working and seeing as how they seem to want it lifted, I am sticking to my guns.

No Justice - No Tourists

Ok here goes,

Back when SM had the first big crash I went looking for another site to check on Natalee. I found Refugees. It had only been open a few days and the moderator had a name of  I think it was Victims first. Sounded like the kind of thing I was looking for. So I joined. I can't remember if you could read without joining or not.

Then I read a few of the hateful post and I wrote a post that maybe I was in the wrong place. Victims first asked me to stay. I posted over the course of a few months maybe 12 times. I think maybe 4 of those post were to argue with Sandrak. At that Time Robin was also a member. She also seldom posted and it was not really known that she was Nats stepmom.

Then a poster claimed to be at some charity event and was posting some details wrong and Robin spoke up and was she attacked by the other posters. Victims first did tell the posters that she was for real. The posters continued to harras her. I think I defended her once. Then she dropped out. By this time Sm was back online. Shortly thereafter Refugees changed to Refugees Unleashed. I was not invited to rejoin. LOL

I never , ever posted anything against Natalee or any of her family.  I believe BFN is more inline with Robins personality and she has made friends there and I think that is OK. If not for her Ramm would not have done all the translations. JMHO

[/b]

Thanks Sleuth.  Hard to put it in perspective from that shot.

This is great news!


This is funny.  8)

AZ, one of the reasons why the family participated in the November meeting in Birmingham which I was invited to, was to dispel the idea that there was a can-you-top-this game being played between Beth and Robin. I saw ZERO... as in NONE... as in NOT ONE SHRED OF... EVIDENCE that Beth and Robin are at odds, or jealous of one another, or had cross purposes or separate agendas in any way. It is all Find Natalee, Get Justice, Get Answers.

That meeting was mostly BFN people and I would characterize them as being staunchly pro-boycott, yet they are accepting of the other view. I don't see why Robin's views are such a big deal. Debbie is apparently pro-boycott and she isn't ready to sell Robin off yet.

 Sweety .. no worries!  I am a bit behind... hubby being a jerk here..  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  Ready to ship him to Aruba..one way ticket and hope thats he meets a gal as evill as JVS or the rest of the idiots!  :twisted:

AMEN Rob!

BT  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: a possum?


Hi Metro- sorry you didn't write me back buddy, cotton the cat had his party hat on for your arrival  :lol:  :lol:

Hi Ya Sleuth- But it does look like DePalm in my opinion.. what is your's?

ROFLOL!  I have times like that with Hubby too!  you and I should take a vacation together!

If you google "China  toxic" you will see that they are well used to being poisoned, aerial sprayed and polluted in all manner of ways as well as being treated as peasants with no rights and no way of protesting the lack thereof so they will feel right at home on One Unhealthy Island.

Now this IS  SCREERY

well I'm happy to see you cuz and to get your opinion, you know we're in your corner

A DEAD possum.  :wink:  :lol:

WELL,  I guess Aruba will be paradise to them!  :lol:

read my lips, I said this for months now ODUBER WANTS IN ON THE OIL PROFITS FOLKS

 :lol: envision all those rigs off the coast of Aruba ahhhhhh

That's if Chavez doesn't get to them first?

 
OK~!  :)  Spur of the moment trips are cool~!

OOPS!

...nevermind --- I re-read her post again -- she is delusional if she thinks Aruba is doing "what they asked"!!!!