Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Continuation of # 3.

:)

thanks catriana.

thanks for the new topic link :-)

Their system is not working.  The Arubians must be aware of that.  Why not let the FBI lead the investigation.

sarah, i think it is a simple matter of a power struggle.  even though their authorities have shown their incompetance to the world, maybe they feel if they turn it over to our FBI, they have failed?  i don't know.  i'm sure it has to do with the fact that their legal system (dutch) is completely different than ours.

I have been driving a car for a pretty good while now. I like to speed and have talked myself out of a lot of tickets.  But in no way could I drive in the INDY 500.  I have no experience in race car driving.  One mistake and the whole race would be screwed up.  Just like the investigation.  They have solved crimes, even murders.  They have a successful system.  But the system is no way prepared for the magnitude of this case.

I think the problem here, and I think it was Nancy_Drew who just touched on this, is that even though it's not working, they have control.  This case isn't solved.  It would be different if we already knew by the evidence who did this and we were talking in terms of prosecution and punishment.  Then the pressure could be brought from all aspects.  The problem with this case is that no one is charged.  There isn't any real concrete evidence that we know of at this point.  And no matter how much we hate it, the Arubans have complete control over this.  It is a very fine line to be walking.

I also think as much as we would love to put pressure on them in some way, I really think the pressure that will get something done will be from their own people when sales are down, reservations are down, and no one is making the money they usually make this time of year from American travel.  Their own people will cause more action than a bunch of raving Americans.  Just my opinion.

I wish Bush would call the head man in Aruba and try to influence both to work together to try to resolve this whole ordeal.

Did someone say Geraldo was about to be on the view to discuss the case.

i am a long time supporter of aruba and the authorties there, but i have to admit this is nutz .. my opinion is gradually starting to change...

To repeat what I said at the end of the last thread.

If we care, and want justice we CAN'T turn away from the justice system!  It is clear with the whole world watching the guards were let go.  We do have power and can turn this case around.

I say everyone and anyone should write, call do whatever to demand justice.  I would think Aruban citizens should do the same...their future economy is in the balance!

We should show respect for the lovely people on this island.  It is not their fault this happened.  BUT, it's time to get tough and support the family by demanding FAIR JUSTICE!!!

Amen, Nancy!

the tragedy itself is not their fauly. the way they have handled it since... IS!

I think what she is saying is that it's not the fault of the citizens of Aruba and we should not take it out on them, but the law enforcement in Aruba.

FOX says they have new info right after the break.

Nancy Drew - who do you recommend would be the best to write in to???

fox w/ new info??? Haven't heard that before!

But, keep us posted anyway

Fox uses the word 'new" very liberally. It probably isn't new in the sense that no one has heard it before.

Let me know, my TV is stuck on Nick Jr.  My 7 year old would revolt if I changed it during Dora the Explorer!!!!!

I really don't know but hope the kind residents of Aruba who have joined us here could help.  We need emails, fax numbers and snail mail addresses.  However, the quickest correspondence seems best.

They need to be flooded with demands.

My concern is this...what if another crime happens in Aruba and the victim doesn't have the media attention Natalee has.  Will fair justice prevail? Doubtful.

Oh man...just ignore stupid Fox. They've lost credibility with me...and CNN? I hate American media.  :evil:

Wow. They are not testing the underwear.

Fox is also saying that the search yesterday came from a tip from one of the suspects who apparently mentioned the area.  No specifics.  Apparently the FBI doesn't think much of the underwear either.

They looked too big...she's small.

I'm trying to find addresses right now.

Hey, mbhs05.  How ya holdin' up?

It's amazing how these networks (especially Fox) recycle old news and make it BREAKING NEWS!!!

Thanks for the update.  All I get in the International feed of CNN.  I have not been seeing that much on the case.

Fine...it's kind of a routine now, just same old, same old. Waiting for something to happen. I really do hate the media though...it's hard to go to the church without them trying to film you, and when you ask them not to, they pout. Vultures.

dragonfly, i have a 3 year old that LOVES dora the explorer!!!  the only reason i was able to watch o'reilly (sp?) last night is because i let he and his 16 month old brother play with his playdough which he loves as well.  LOL!

Aruba Tourism Authority P.R.
L. G. Smith Blvd. 172
Eagle, Aruba
Tel: 297-8-23777
Fax: 297-8-37403
email: m.jansen@toaruba.com

I live here what exactly do you need?? Mail of who?? Just ask ill get them all!

I was thinking the same thing.

I am not sure anyone knows what NEW means anymore!!!

Aruba Tourism Authority P.R.
L. G. Smith Blvd. 172
Eagle, Aruba
Tel: 297-8-23777
Fax: 297-8-37403
email: m.jansen@toaruba.com

NEW means "Watch us please! We need ratings...we're going to exploit all of you. HA"

 :lol:

Yes, my little boy was at vacation bible school last night.  His brothers and sister are away at camp, so if I am on the computer, he has to have the TV because he's bored.  I can't have both at the same time unless he is gone!   :lol:

I think we need ALL the major politicians and LE contacts.  We should start at the top and send our demands to them all.

Geraldo discussing the case on ABC right now.

There's just no respect to any of it, and it has turned into a circus. I'd always thought I could trust the local guys, but not anymore...they want to film everything. I just want to be able to go to the wall...and not appear on the NEWS. They're desperate to keep the "human interest" thing going, at the expense of people involved in the case.

Geraldo calling VDS the Robert Chambers of Aruba! He stole that from us!! But hey, I agree completely.

your so right :0)
its all business and ratings, amazing...............we already new that it came from a tip of one of the suspects.

I heart goes out to Natalee, her family and friends. I have given up all hope of her being found alive (over a week ago in fact). I believe that this is a case of a rape gone bad, where Natalee ended up getting killed. I am quite sure that I am not alone in these feelings...

However, I do not believe that the parents of Joran, or the brothers are necessarily evil people. They did raise a son(s) that "went bad" though....

Anyone interested in writing a letter or calling to plead with the parents to "do the right thing" and "persuade their son(s)" to stop the torture of poor Natalee's parents? How about the government officials that could do something?

*** am editing this post as i get more numbers from other people's posts

TO call Aruba from the USA: 011 + 297 + number

To find other international phone call prefixes - see this site:http://www.countrycallingcodes.com/results.php

Addresses/Phone #'s of people to contact in Aruba:

::Edit::  You may post where folks can find numbers of individuals, but please do not post the actual phone numbers.  thank you.  ::Edit::

The only thing I like about Geraldo is he at least does seem to have sympathy for the Holloways. Beyond that I think he needs to be kept off the TV and sent to another country to look for Hoffa's bones or something.

I wonder if this was ever really credible.  People have been combing the island for weeks and this kid finds this stuff because he just thought to look there - didn't seem he looked anyplace else - this just came to mind.  Maybe he or someone else put them there to confuse or detract attention for a while.  Also, correct me if I am wrong, but did one of the news channels actually interview this kid outside or inside Carlos or Charlies - heard music in background - maybe he was at another club???? just wondering

so sorry you are having to go through all of that.  my heart goes out to you all.

i know country code is 297... but is there an area code before the numbers?

your so right,.............no wonder they punched him and broke his nose a couple of years back......best thing he should do is look for Hoffa's bone and shave that carpet of his face!! :0)

I don't think it's fair to communicate with the suspect's families.  

Can we find email addresses?  I'm betting they have email.

Any thoughts on how to do this?

We should write a simple template with appropriate copy.

I think your local police should make them stay away. You guys deserve some privacy!

Thank you! I'm not even having to deal with the worst of it I'm sure...I'm betting the media is HOUNDING her best friends and thos eon the trip...but I don't know. "Dash" knows more than I do...she's the only one I've been keeping up with. (Lives down the street from me.) I only go out there in the afternoon now. Less people. Well I was checking in, and I'm getting off for now...keep praying ya'll!

Cohill, mbhs

SL

typo... Coghill

Nancy...good idea. I bet Tom or Red or Catriana could set up a mass petition for us.

::Edit:: You may post where folks can find numbers of individuals, but please do not post the actual phone numbers. thank you. ::Edit::

In all fairness, without the media attention this case would be dead!  We love to hate them...BUT, think of the missing kids who don't get any of this?

It must be horrible to have the cameras in your face in Alabama...BUT, without their attention where would this be?

Good Morning all,

Just got in... Can anyone tell me if there were any new developments?

Just a quick note would be great.  Sorry to bother.

-W

WANT TO ENCOURAGE YOU ALL Just copied that address to my circle - hopefully they'll get a chance to send out their concerns as well.

If Tom & Red could set us up too --- PLEASE LET ME KNOW ASAP.

Yeah, I'm for this.  And I too don't think it's appropriate to contact the suspects families.

::Edit:: You may post where folks can find numbers of individuals, but please do not post the actual phone numbers. thank you. ::Edit::


damn girl you should be a detective ahaha (its taylors mommy)btw

Joran’s father takes justice ministry to court.  The case is supposed to begin today in Aruban court.

Nothing as far as finding Natalee...no

Apparently I don't have to leave yet (I have to share this computer with my mom). I agree with that-it needs the attention, it's just that they should at least ASK before they start walking behind you filming you writing.

Hey SL...you have mail.

If I recall, there was a website at one time that provided a free petition service.  I can't remember details.

I do think individual emails on top of that are more than appropriate!

DJTAYLOR

Which taylor??

It may get to the point where you guys have to gather at a home or some other "private property" in order to keep the press at bay.

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! OK I KNOWE WHICH  TAYLOR!!!!
you mean

TV

The Editor-In-Chief of ARUBA TODAY absolutely denies the remarks made by Geraldo Rivera on O'Reilly last night. This is her note in reply to the comments I made in today's news update, posted with her permission:

-------------------

Hi Rick,

I just spoke to Fox and all I was reassured that O'Reilly 'retracted'
(the actual word went over my head) all of the statements made by Geraldo.

I was on with O'Reilly last night when he suggested that our Prime Minister was an idiot, but do you really think that the President of the United States gets involved in Police Cases? NO! Actually it would be illegal for a politician to get involved or be abreast of any details of Police investigation - same as in the US. Duh, I honestly don't think O'Reilly is an idiot - he is obviously acting like one to get ratings.

Once again, I don't know what happened to Natalee, and I'm not sure that anyone does! If van der Sloot or the others had any involvement in her death or disappearance they will be punished and justice will be served.
There is in no way what so ever that Arubans think that there is a coverup or that v/d Sloot's father has any pull. It is to the contrary!
He is a civil servant and lives in a middle class neighborhood and drives a Honda? There is a great amount of wealth on this island and the v/d Sloots are not part of it. Taxi drivers probably make more than the judge!

As for Dutch influence. No way! An Aruban would never stick the neck of an entire nation for anyone - much less a Dutch national. The suggestion is ridiculous. Arubans are extremely honest by nature - all of this hype is made up by the international press trying to get ratings. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am sure there is no DVD otherwise v/d Sloot would have been hung out to dry with the local press as well.

Julia Renfro
Editor-in-Chief
Aruba Today

Nancy...I think I can find that site. They did petitions for American Idol.

T.V. TAYLOR veger

is this some sort of "hidden message" post?  :?

No KERINTX! it jsut that I realized I know someone in this chat room personally! and jsut a surprise! hahahah Sorry! wont happen again! :oops:

Well now I'm off for real...keep up the hope!

Here's what I find deeply bewildering: why, since last Friday, have various Aruban law enforcement and governmental spokespeople persisted in making announcements that "the case will be solved with 24 hours"? Obviously it hasn't been. So what practical purpose is being served here? Or what impractical purpose? Didn't one of the investigators state yesterday afternoon that he would announce the solution to the case in 24 hours? Is this a language or translation problem?
   I think this is what is really infuriating us: these carrots of closure that are being dangled before us and then yanked away.

So FOX is now reporting that Joran's father motioned to have his attorney removed but it was denied.

This may have been posited before, but I don't have time to read everything. I'm beginning to think the boys left her somewhere after taking turns with her. They did do something bad to her, probably raped her while she was unconscious, and this is why they are lying about something. Because what they did was indeed very bad.

But they didn't kill her. They just left her there. And she disappeared. This idea is given credence by the security guard's report that Deepak said he figured she'd turn up in a "crack house or a beach bar" somewhere. That's kind of strange thing to say. They left her by the Marriott, which is why they're searching there, and think the "body" might be there, but it isn't. They honestly don't know what happened to her. But what they DO know, they don't want to admit to, either.

Just a thought.

Ohhhh...no problem. Hey...we all need to get off topic for a min or so to keep our sanity.  :)

Glad you found someone you know!!

no americaninaruba is my cousine she didnt know it was me ;0) dont worry no hidden post :0)

thanks for posting that texasRick.  i saw her when she was on with o'reilly and geraldo, and she did seem somewhat frustrated during that interview, as well as the male that was standing next to her, that is a FOX correspondant.

We have heard their officals say "within 24 hours" for about 240 hours now.

Honestly, I have wondered the same thing.  Now that would mean that someone else came along and did something with her which I find a little hard to believe.  But if Depak really believe that then maybe he does not know what Joran really did with her.  I find that unlikely though.

TXRick...pardon my stupidity (or slowness due to fatigue) but are you with a news source? What part of TX are you in?

I can't imagine what her poor family is going through. WTF can't they just tell her where she is? Do those little pricks have no compassion?
They need to have an Andy Sipowicz type to go in the room.

As a Mother I would ask to see the 3 boys together and make them look in my face and tell me what they did.

Sorry for the rant.

I do think this is a critical point in the case.  If the reports are true that the specialists brought in are experts in interrogation, if these kids are gonna crack, it's gonna happen now!

I agree with the talking head this morning who said the evidence is important but these "discussions" happening now are critical!

Kerin:

   Yes, 240 hours seems just about right. But I repeat: why do you--or anyone here--think they are doing this? Why don't they just employ the usual law enforcement locution of "pursuing several promising leads"? Why the promises of closure? Don't they see how foolish this makes them seem? And what is the point?

which is EXACTLY why VDS's dad wanted to talk to him...because he knows the expert "knee cap bashers" are on the scene and he needs to give little Horan "tips"

And I still think visitation should be denied or video-taped.

Rick THANKS SO MUCH - just copied that one to my friends.  VDS middle class and civil servants.  Another great fiction.

Honestly I think it is a combination of them having different tactics (right or wrong) of dealing with crime AND I think there are a lot of things being relayed incorrectly/misunderstood because of language barriers.

or maybe we send in a "dragonfly"  :)

i agree with kerin aswell on this one!!!

Excellent idea!!!!!

LAST DITCH EFFORT OF A DESPERATE FATHER

Been lurking...just wanted to say hi to all :D

for those of you w/ vast connections in aruba, if VDS does work for the gov't, there should be a public record of his pay...can someone get a hold of that?

Hello to you!!!!   :)

I am sure there is some "family money" somewhere (maybe he married rich?). I mean no middle class families I know own a yacht. :wink:

   I had read somewhere that the Aruban police force was trained at Quantico. Which suggests that they follow American investigative procedures.

they dont have a yacht!

Were any of you in Aruba aware of Joran's "hot car" that Geraldo just talked about on the View?

Like I said earlier [/b]GREAT FICTION that middle class civil servant BS

Just heard on Fox that the spokesperson for the prosecution is going to attempt to block the request by Joran's dad to see him.

And yes, with Fox lately, "new" means that it didn't happen last month.  I am really tired for the "news alert" system too....sheesh....used to be that really meant something.

Nothing in Renfro's e-mail constitutes a denial of a personal friendship between elder VDS and the chief investigator.

If the government can refute this claim, they should do so very quickly.

somebody said they had a yacht.  i remember reading it.

Just because he is a civil servant doesn't mean there aren't money and connections.  He's been on the island for 10 years and they are Dutch nationals and this is a Dutch government?  What do we know about this family before they came to Aruba?  There could be "old money" or long term family connections.  I really don't know any "civil servants" who make less than a cab driver and still have a yacht.

very true, goon.  very true.  i don't think anyone has covered that little tid bit of info from geraldo.  hmm....

ok...that's just what dash said joran told them

THe honda belonged to the Kalpoe borthers....I know who teh VDSloots are.......they live close bye....they DO NOT have aa yacht! his moms a Art teacher......attitude, not that has anythiogn to do with it though

People:

This will never be solved, will be "swept under the rug" unless additional pressure is put on.  

I know the son's mothers would NOT want to receive a couple of thousand phone calls from mothers of daughters around the world...BUT...it would certainly leave them impacted enough to "chat with their son(s) about decency and honor" regarding poor Natalee's family....

However - did ANYONE besides myself notice that the parents are nowhere to be seen, not wanting to be "tied" to this "scandalous thing" against their "innocent son"????  Personally, I am outraged that the mothers of the "boys" have lacked anything that slightly resembles a conscious...hope I am not alone.

I don't believe any disagreement exists concerning contacting the public officials...

I will post any email addresses I find for any of these people for those who do not want to personally talk (as in voice) to the participants of this great tragedy.



::Edit:: You may post where folks can find numbers of individuals, but please do not post the actual phone numbers. thank you. ::Edit::

I think that "dash" said that they had a yacht...almost positive

Hey, has anyone heard ANYTHING from the two brothers parents???  I know it has been clarified that they do NOT have a rental car agency, but have never heard a single word of protest or anything from them....where the heck are they?  Who are they??

in case anyone is wondering about mrs. vds, here is here profile as shown on the international school's website.

http://www.isaruba.com/academics/profile/anita.htm

this may have been posted before, i am not sure.

Why are we not hearing anything about the brothers parents.  They seem very quiet to me.

Why are we not hearing anything about the brothers parents.  They seem very quiet to me.

In an earlier message to me, ARUBA TODAY'S editor said that the Police Commissioner and van der Sloot's father "were not best friends" as reported by Geraldo...

I suggest that nobody call the suspects' families....not only do I think that they probably have changed their phone number or disconnected it due to the calls that they are most likely getting from the press....but I am assuming that if you call in the manner that you are suggesting, they could file charges on you for harrassing phone calls.

Just a thought

(Quote)
I was on with O'Reilly last night when he suggested that our Prime Minister was an idiot, but do you really think that the President of the United States gets involved in Police Cases? NO! Actually it would be illegal for a politician to get involved or be abreast of any details of Police investigation - same as in the US. Duh, I honestly don't think O'Reilly is an idiot - he is obviously acting like one to get ratings.
(Unquote)

I watched that interview last night and I could see how rattled Ms. Renfro was at O'Reiley's remark that the PM doesn't have a clue. Ms. Renfro's reply was (and I quote) "I am certain that he is abreast of the situation." Now she says that would be illegal?

Unfortunately, I feel that time is on the side of the criminal / killer here and sadly, I feel that we are edging closer and closer to the Lori Hacking - Laci Peterson kind of situation when it will be too late to determine what happened to this poor little girl. As someone else posted, I wonder if that is intentional.

New poster but long time fan and reader of ScaredMonkeys.
Seeker

Pine -  I guess you and I had the same thought.

they just did bring up a good point  why dont they use a polygraph on these kids (lie detector) >?

they just did bring up a good point  why dont they use a polygraph on these kids (lie detector) >?

not legal..

they just did bring up a good poin on tvt  why dont they use a polygraph on these kids (lie detector) >?

From what I understand this is not allowed in Aruba.

is this allowed to be used on the island>? the lie ditector? can anyone answer me that please?....thnx

is this allowed to be used on the island>? the lie ditector? can anyone answer me that please?....thnx

is this allowed to be used on the island>? the lie ditector? can anyone answer me that please?....thnx

is this allowed to be used on the island>? the lie ditector? can anyone answer me that please?....thnx.

To answer your question
no
no
no
no
no
 :lol:

Van Der Sloot's house is being searched - car is being towed away

 :lol:

is this allowed to be used on the island>? the lie ditector? can anyone answer me that please?....thnx.

is this allowed to be used on the island>? the lie ditector? can anyone answer me that please?....thnx.

I thought that happened days ago?

I have been trying to stay current with the news while at work so forgive this question if it has already been discussed.. Early on when VDS was first arrested, it was mentioned that the boys left the island of Aruba for several days.  Any confirmation?

DJ.....I have found that even when the debug warning comes up after posting, it has still gone through...so, instead of continuing to send, I go back and refresh the board and my message is there.

ahahh sorry for all the questions my comp whent crazy there for a second (froze up) but thanks for the answer :0)

Well it was just announced on MSNBC - it's on now

where do you get this info from?

NEVERMIND.

If you get the failed message or "debug" or whatever it says, your post did go through.  Just back up twice to the original post page you were replying to and hit "refresh".  You will see that your comments made it in.

When you get the DEBUG message....DO NOT RE-DO your message, it has been posted like 7 times now.  Just go back to the forum index, you will see it's been posted.

And NO, polygraphs are not allowed/used in Aruba.

what???  msnbc beat this blog to new "news"

thanks for the advice :0)

What do you think the odds are of getting extradited to Aruba for calling the mother of Joran Van Der Sloot, Satish Kalpoe or Deepak Kalpoe???

While I would prefer to send email, or snail mail first....unless somebody provides info on addressing these smail mail letters (other than street names listed previously), or email addresses....that leaves only phone calls to plead with the mothers of these 3 men/boys.  Snail mail or email would at least "haunt" the mothers as they looked at them "over and over" while deciding if they wanted "to do the right thing" and talk to their "innocent boy(s)" about decency and honor, and to stop the torment of poor Natalee's family.

Same goes for all the public officials.

So Arubans:  Can you provide the additional data for snail mail addresses or email addresses?

I loved the post that said that charges may be filed against folks that call the parents etc.  Seeing how "aggresive" the laws and law enforcement are on the island, that should really scare everyone away! :roll:

texasRick, is this "earlier message" different from the e-mail you posted at 11:55 AM?

can anyone in aruba or listening to top 95 confirm the reports of a search at the VDS home?

They're just NOW searching the van der sloot home??? 16 days after Natalee disappeared? Are the authorities that inept or that crooked?

Aye yae yae...

I tend to think this might be so, and this would about as bad as killing her.

What good do you think calling them at home will do?

All you're going to do is make them complain about the harassing phone calls they're getting.

i wonder if they called in a maid service?

I think it is TOTALLY wrong to contact the suspects families!  They are suffering too, and in addition aren't the ones to make justice happen!

To do such a thing suggests we somehow KNOW the truth here...we don't.

What we do know is these three kids were the last ones known to be with Natalee.  We must demand they are forced under FAIR interrogation techniques to tell the truth!

But to go after the families is just not appropriate. As much as we want to hate them right now, it's wrong to add to their suffering.

Again, to get justice we must go after those whose job it is to bring justice.  That's not the families.

:lol: @ SARAH....TRUE DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hi y'all

i just want to introduce myself.  i've been here for days, since about page 3 of the 'old' SM board.  feels like i know everyone here but i'm invisible.   i can barely keep up with reading so feel silly posting.  not meaning to just lurk but when i've felt like popping in with a reply or question you guys are already 6 pages beyond me.

like all of you, this case has penetrated my very soul.  nat...and dash...could be my neices or the daughters of my closest friends and nbhs my nephew.  can't really explain to myself why i feel this fondness and familiarity for/with them...besides the 'southern thang'.

want to say, tho, that you guys are great!  this has been the best place of all for staying up to date on news and views, and for keeping the spirit, keeping thoughts going in a forward direction.  your collective dedication is...wow!...amazing.

thanks for letting me hang here.

gb 8)

Well, what do you think the odds are of creating a backlash of symphathy for the accused, by harrassing their families?  

Inundate the authorities with calls, emails, and faxes, but don't make this personal or a US verses Aruba thing.  It will backfire.

The search of the VDS mansion must have been ordered by Mark Furhman,  lead investigator on the case

I would be shaking in my shoes if I thought the Aruban LE was after me!!!!  I think I would run and hide in the country of Aruba to dodge those charges.   :lol:

Exactly, Rogers, thank you.

Oh,  and hello and good morning everyone.

I just needed to make one more post for an even 100.

Praying that Natalee comes home today.

is this happening right now?

hi.  glad to see you here.  and others that my be "lurking" and not posting.

They said they towed the "family" car

I totally agree, but I just thought the idea of being prosecuted by the Aruban government was laughable.

Quick poll---who here would visit Aruba on vacation in the future?  Who here would send their teen there on vacation?

That's interesting.

HI GB......glad you are here! :D

Just to keep perspective on things.  The VDS family lives in a modest home, not a mansion by any stretch.

A car other than the silver honda...

not to change the subject to julia renfro (editor of aruba today) but if I remember correctly, she was asked during an interview last week if her paper had ever found out or printed anything prejudicial towards joran.  she replied "oh no!  he's only been in our paper for all the wonderful things he's done!".  that may not be an exact quote, but her comment stuck w/me because it sounded so favorable about joran.

my point is:  I take now what she says or writes w/a grain of salt.

my first post here. been reading for days now.

The families of the 3 men know exactly what is going on...and ARE in the best position to "encourage" their son(s) to confess and end the torture of Natalee's family.  I don't hate the mothers - however, if the mothers had simply paid some kind of attention to "raising the boy(s)" instead of just turning them loose at the bars to drink and gamble, none of this would have happened in the first place.  It is very obvious that these mothers were entirely lazy in the job of teaching morality in the first place.  It is high time they heard about that.

georgiablues welcome to our craziness!!!!!

The police raided the house of  Joran van der Sloot on Wednesday afternoon and confiscated various items, including two cars...

Not sure if this is appropriate use of this bb, but I would/will on both counts.

I would visit - Not sure about sending my teen anywhere without me --> I  am one of those mothers that finds it hard to let go.

i think this is geraldsgirlfriend's way of joking/sarcasm.  mark furhman was the lead investigator on the jon benet ramsey case, that is still unsolved to this day.

Juvenal - it is interesting but does it mean anything - I doubt it the way this is going  - I know it is a different country but when someone is taken into custody isn't a search done immediately after getting a warrant which I would think would be easy since he is a suspect - Was a search already conducted and What is the "family" car - not the one that had blood in it???  whose was that???

And just so you know, posting is like eating Pringles...once you pop you can't stop!!!!!   :lol:

I have no desire to really go there now just cause i'm disgusted with the police. NOt saying i would never go there...

No way would I send my 18yr old there or any other foreign country.... if she wants to go by herself she can go to gulf shores 8)

I would go, and if my son went at 20 I would be ok with it.  As a senior in hs, I would have gone with or .....I'm not sure.

good point bamajo..............:0)

too many reports of 'date rape' drugs.  No idea if they are true, but no way would I let my child go anywhere except inside the good ole US.  Anything can happen here, but at least we have cops that know how to conduct an investigation.

ouch, brenda.  casting the first stone?  we don't know one whit about how these boys were raised.  there is such a thing known as "free will".  i believe adam & eve and cain & abel exercised it.

i'm not judging you, but i do believe the above post is a little harsh, and i think it in very rude and bad form to personally call the families' of the boys.  the government and the investigators, i don't have a problem with, but calling the boys' families is very bad sportsmanship.

After this is all over, I would go, IF it is resolved in a way that I feel the government there did their job.  If not, why would I want to visit a place where if a crime IS commited it turns into such a public nightmare and justice may not be done.  It all depends on the  outcome of this situation.

If a lawyer can get Michael Jackson cleared on all counts when he lives with a monkey, changed from a black man to a white man in 10 years, has paid out previous child molestation settlements and admits that pyjama parties with children are "par for the course" how hard is it going to be to clear an honor student from a prominent family with no previous record whose daddy is Van der Straten's golf caddy.  I just don't see a happy "judicial" ending to this one.

My family and I are making our 7th trip to Aruba this August - husband - 3 kids , 1 friend and my parents  My son is 20 - he goes to town with my husband and parents and a friend from home - no problems - ever

Brenda, I beg your pardon, how do you know they didn't teach morality to their children?  Are you suggesting known murderers commit crimes because they were not taught morals?  Is this a joke?

This folks is how vigilantism starts.  As much as I despise these kids and what we've HEARD about them, I can't go that low!

Sportsmanship?  This is not a game.  There will be no winners here.

I would go.......and since I have no kids...I can't say for sure that I would let them go.....I guess it would all depend on their maturity level.  There are senior trips all the time...this is not something that happens...it is a freak occurrance....so I really don't know..

Date rape drugs are unfortunately used here in the US also.  Kids need to be careful in all situations whether here at home or abroad.  Never go out alone, don't leave a drink unattended and watch each other's back.

I'm with you on this one.  While I have "heard" some quesionable things about this family and Joran, I don't know any of it to be fact and I don't think I would start this yet.  If it came out that his parents knew all along what he did with her (if he did anything) and they helped him cover that up...THEN I might throw a few stones.

I agree with Brenda's post... I mean this kid Joran is out of control at 17! and his dad gambles (illegally) with him? I mean come on... pay attention to what your kids are doing and teach them right an wrong. Otherwise they think  (or know in this case) they can get away with anything, because parents let them

bamajo,

fuhrman wasn't on jon benet ramsey case. he was lead investigator on the o.j. simpson case and advised on the martha moxley/kennedy sckekel case where he actually got pretty good press.

I think he's probably a pretty crack policeman, but unfortunately a bit of a racist.

I just moved from a small town where we never locked our doors---I wasn't even sure where the key to the house was---and I left my keys in the car--and sometimes even my purse.  I wonder if this is the way people on the island live too since there is so little crime.

I think the lady is an Aruba flack.  I have not seen any timely reports in an international language coming out of Aruba.  When you look at her paper online it is always yesterday's edition.  OK, so they want to sell the actual paper but when you have a scoop and they eyes of the world on you, you put it out there you don't hide it so you get the credit.  I would say the Aruba press has done no better job of getting at the facts than the US MSM.  If they are so patriotic they ought to hustle a little and publish in languages the rest of the world can understand to make their place look better than it looks in terms of the investigation.  If she did indeed defend Joran then she is not objective.  Her paper is an add sheet for tourists not a real paper.  I would accept Dutch, Spanish or English, all of which I know.  I can wade through Papiamento too but not easily.  Plus, all the Aruba written press holds back the day's edition for tomorrow so they can sell more paper.  I did not even get AM Aruba today.  FM 95.1 is great if you speak Papiamento.

 

bad choice of words.  i was using it as an euphimism.  it is rude and of bad conduct to call the boys' families.

and you are right, b/c they are all losers at this point.  the twitty-holloways have lost a daughter and the van der sloots and surinamese family (can't remember last name at this point) have each lost sons.  very sad and tragic indeed.

 I have always believed that the OJ case was a good case.  It was the racism that got him off.  For that I find fault with Fuhrman, but I believe he is a good detective.

You don't think using political power is "bad sportsmanship"?

How about this one:  why is it that "innocent" Joran's mommy didn't even have son home at a decent hour on a school night?  Or why is it that Joran's daddy thought it appropriate to taking him drinking/gambling underage?

Joran certainly didn't get a proper upbringing to take care of school responsibities by staying out all night on a school night, or to respect the local laws.......  Thus, I stand by what I said.  

If you let the trash collect in the kitchen garbage can, and don't take it out - you WILL draw fleas and roaches.....I am quite sure you all understand EXACTLY what I mean by this....

gotcha.    :oops:  i just knew it was an attempt at sarcasm.  thanks for correcting me though.  :D

Except Natalee is innocent and upstanding... the boys are not. I don't feel sorry for the boy's parents at all at this point.

I definetly would visit Aruba. As for my teen going to Aruba ( not without a proper Chaporone)sure , I would much rather them going to Aruba then Florida .

Beth was told that Joran's reputation was as squeaky clean as Natalee's.

Well, I suppose it doesn't mean they know what they're doing. But it's interesting simply because it's the Van der Sloot's family car.

The car that was impounded earlier was not Joran's. Joran does not have a driver's licsence, if I understand correctly. It was Deepak's. That was the car some of the Mountain Brook kids identified as the one Natalee got into the last time they saw her. This was the car that had the substance in it that turned out not to be blood.

FM 95.1 radio all over the story.  they say they took cars of both parents.  

Hey all

We just got off the phone with Julie Renfro, Aruba Today, editor and chief. Please read the latest post on some one the controversies from Fox News, O'Reilly Factor last night with Gerlado.

Julie Renfro, Editor of Aruba Today, on Fox’s O’Reilly Factor, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1147

If they took the cars of both parents then I think they're reaching for clues with no firm leads.

I don't feel sorry for them either, but until and unless I have more information besides "rumors", I'm not going there.  I know very good parents whose children have gotten out of control at some point.  And I'm not SURE that any of us KNOWS he gambles with his dad.  That is just what we have heard.  I am not impressed by them, don't feel sorry for them, but do not know enough about the situation to harrass them and feel good about that.

On TOP 95.1 they have been having some sort of heavy discussion, sounds like news, no the reg. call-in deal.

Annybody that speaks the lingo know if it's about the cars/search??

squeaky clean???

anger management, drinking and gambling underage? tons of personal sites looking for  a fling...

Wow... makes my teen look like an absolute angel if thats squeaky clean

from the ta board:

June 15th, 2005 at 12:37 pm
Now on line in papiamento. Authorities are now at the house of J. v/d Sloot and are taken 2 cars of his parents and many other things. They say for to look for blood samples, must say this is speculation.

i understand where you are coming from, and the point you are making.  i'm the mother of two boys myself, although they are very young (3 yrs & 16 months), and i don't agree with joran's lifestyle, nor the encouragement of gambling by his dad, but i still don't think it proper to call the families.  just my opinion, just as you have yours.

Juvenal

Joran does not have a driver's licsence

Why was it reported (sorry I don't remember where or if this is true) that he Joran had one of the more expensive cars on the island?  He is 17 and doesn't drive?

LET'S ALSO NOT FORGET AMY BRADLEY - SHE WAS WITH HER FAMILY when she went missing.

Wow, if this is just being done then I am even more angered by the investigation over there!!!!  This should have been done when the investigation started and if not then it should have been done when they took him into custody!

FM 95.1 has an ABC lady on the radio in English

The last few days of this investigation have looked like a dog and pony show.  Everyone is trying to look like they are investigating "oh look, panties over here, ooh duct tape, we're working hard, get some polis trucks over here, I see  some condom wrappers, oh we better let those potential tourists know we're hydro vaccing a kiddie pool"  Are you kidding me.  Truth is, I think Aruban authorities are serving two masters and VDS's family is one of them.  So whose the other?  the victim's family? or tourism?

The legal driving age in Aruba is 18.

Thanks, Shataken.

Interviewing ABC newsperson in English right now.

That was Whorealdo who said that.

Need I say more?

WATCH FOX NOW

While I didn't pay close enough attention to say for certain, I think even that last charge isn't necessarily true.

He was given a script for a play/movie once and had lines where he used the N word.  When asked at trial if he had ever uttered that word, he said no.  They then produced the tape....

I'm hearing this, but I don't quite get it. Why interviewing a news person?

OKAY - THANKS FOR THAT

MICKEY ON FOX

we need to encourage more aruban input on the site.  they are better informed since the have access to the local media we can't get or can't read or understand.  I have FM 95.1 on all the time but I don't understand much even though I speak dutch and spanish.  TH

A case happened recently when a 4 year old kid took mommy's car out of driveway, and drove it into street into another car....

Don't remember where I read that...

However, the point is:  if he was allowed to drink/gamble underage, are you SURE he wasn't allowed, or unable, to DRIVE underage as well?

we need to encourage more aruban input on the site.  they are better informed since the have access to the local media we can't get or can't read or understand.  I have FM 95.1 on all the time but I don't understand much even though I speak dutch and spanish.  TH

I live in aruba and I understand papiamento...i jsut got back so i  will start transaltion just liek yesterday!

Well, that comment about Joran being sc brought me out of my lurkdom.  Have you not seen his websites and the pictures of his friends and him?  Squeaky clean doesn't come to mind - unless they are considered the cleanest of Eurotrash....seedy looking characters to be so young!

What happened to ArubaGirl???

radio guy on scene says the FBI just arrived.

We have, thankfully Arubagirl and NativeLingo as well.  But they do have lives outside of this board.  

Greatful to all our Aruban friends.

MSNBC NOW WATCH SEARCHING HOUSE

someone sent me here from COMMENTS to report that the VDS residence is being searched,..other cars,..anyone know?

THey are searching selena, it was just oin msnbc

******
Edmond: Apparently the doghs have arrived at the house of JOran VD SLoot.......Harry: what is the size of their land of hte house......EDMOND: the house is close to the main road in montana, peole have arrived to the bakc of the house, securtiy has left the dogs to search the house, to see if they can find somethign of nataleses in the house, we dont know why or how come they are here, they have come all the way.....they are tryign to get any trace or indications that their may be soemthign of hers areound here, they are observign FBI agents also w/ dogs..(ok im signing "who let the dogs out ho hoh oh).......we are all watiting to see if theis can brign an aend to this chapter of the aruban community,

We woud be lost without them, Juvenal too, but we need one or more 24/7.  Otherwise it is the blind leading the blind.   8)

Thank you, americaninaruba.

Frustrating not to be able to understand it.

Arrived where?  At the Van der Sloot house?

Yes.

Thanks for translating for us.  Doesn't this seem like too little/too late?  Should this not have been done much earlier to prevent the destruction of potential evidence?

FOX NEWS ON NOW

Fox is saying they are wearing protective gear? Any thought on this.

The dogs will find condoms, condom wrappers, that dog leash (from his now infamous current affair picture) and scores of panties in VDS's bedroom no doubt

There is a Dutch website with Natalee updates in English. www.hasibokos.com

Here are the last two news updates:
UPDATE 27: Hasibokos.com has just received information that the police raided the house of  Joran van der Sloot just before noon on Wednesday and confiscated various items, including the two cars of his parents, Anita and Paulus van der Sloot.

UPDATE 26: The Aruban newspaper, AweMeinta, opened their Wednesday edition with the following headline: “Tata di Joran cu caso kontra Ministerio Publico”, the translation of this headline is: “Joran’s father takes justice ministry to court”. The article relates that Joran’s father, Paulus van der Sloot, has lost his patience. Paulus van der Sloot is taking the justice ministry to court because, unlike Joran’s mother who has visited Joran, he hasn’t been allowed to visit his son since his arrest. Van der Sloot is also mad because Joran’s attorney, Antonio Carlo,  has been dismissed by the justice  ministry. The case is supposed to begin today in Aruban court.

Agree with Dragonfly It's 2 1/2 weeks NOW they are sending dogs to the house???????????????????????????

unlike the rest of us ;-)

i JUST GOT UP---?
HAVE U HEARD ANYTHING NEW?

WHATS 4 LUNCH?

****
EDomnd: dogs are in the bushes behind the house, even thought the back of the house the buishes are visible form the road...we are still here at montatna now were just repeatign for thsoie that have jsut arrived, theirs a check in the house of the VD Sloot, in the fron tat this moment thiers not much signs of anything, we will stay here pending with the results of whats going on,,,theirs not much news for our listeners just searches in the house......now HArry (hes in the back of the house were FBI is w/ dogs):

DID THEY EVER SEARCH BEFORE???  WHAT DID MOM AND DAD NEED 2 1/2 WEEKS TO CLEAN AND GET RID OF SOME STUFF????

Protective gear?  Can anyone describe or explain what that means?

What could possibly be in that house that the investigators going in are wearing white suits and MASKS???

This is beyond weird...

Do they expect that he would keep any evidence in that house for this long?  That his clothes haven't been washed or thrown away?  My gosh!!!  2 1/2 weeks is a very long time!!!!!

i am a antillian living in miami florida  southbeach  and that "date rape" drug your talking about is called GHB formaly known as "g "  people take this drug not only for raping purposes but aswell to have that extacy feeling and miami is the begist supplier of this drug it was invented in chicago, Body builders used to take this drug to pump them up, ofcourse you take to much of it it has the oposite affect and when mixed with alcohol it clears out your memory, not to talk bad abuot US but this is where this drug started in the first place :0)

DADDYS WORKING ON PULLING MORE  STRINGS???  HEADS ROLL ON THIS....

Maybe they're looking for VDS's homemade porn collection?

Maybe Joran confessed to hiding the body at his own home!!!

Of course, this could be another publicity stunt to make it look like they are doing their job.  Get that search out on TV and they look better.  All it did for me is leave me shocked that this wasn't already done.

Maybe they're storing toxic waste in the house?

i had a post on the last discussion board about that

long story short, my bf got hit w/ GHB in her alcohol sat.  night here in NYC...she is ok though, we took care of her, but it could have been awful

no they got rid of the toxic waste... hes in jail

Harry: we see the dogs w/. FBI agents and otehr agents of the Aruban police, we are in the back of the house the dog is searching in the woods in the back here...we also see the american press ehre, they are asked not to get close becuase if they get closer the authority will ask us to leave also....the dogs are all here searching int he woods behind VDSloot home, we are being moved from here but we will find a good place to transmit wahts going on....we will try to come in from the other side becuase they are using this whole palce for the search...this is all we have at the moment, we will be back when we have more info......the rear of the house is beign searched by police & FBI..they want to move us becuase the US press has gone too close and so now we all have to be moved....even when we asked them not to get close they did so now we have to moce......the FBI is searchign and workign all over the house, the back of the house is in the front view of teh other house....so their neigbors can look into their yard.....the dogs are not really getting anything this is what weve got well be back

I would wear protective clothing going into that house as well.  No telling WHAT hsa taken place their over the years.

Geraldo's sources apparently told him that even though the legal driving age is 18 and Joran is 17, he still drove and owned an expensive fast car which people frequently saw him driving around the island. CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS??

So, let's think this through. If Joran is out with his buddies and if the brothers did peel off to go back to their house, why wouldn't they just drop Joran off at his house to get his car so Joran and Natalee could be alone?

you know, people who are psychotic killers or just psychotic don't they like to keep "trophies' of their "conquests"?   i imagine that the dutch have finally employed a "profiler".  perhaps that is why they are searching the vds's house.  looking for evidence - perhaps young van der sloot kept trophies of his conquests?

The body is not at his house.

This  house search  should have been done two weeks ago i agree with what they just said on the news,....two weeks is enough time to hide and clean any evidance ( i am not pointing fingers at anyone yet) just saying :0)

geraldosgirlfriend:

How do you know that?  I know it's a long shot and doesn't really make sense...but, what makes you so sure?

I would be surprised if it is.  VERY surprised.  I wonder what they are looking for?  The translation we got says the dogs aren't finding anything so far.  Pretty interesting stuff though.

Heh. Maybe they'll get more bulldozers and dig their yard up.

No way they will find the body at the house-- he's stupid but let's hope not that d$%$% stupid.

thanks for the info americaninaruba :0) keep us updated please!!

Their may be a good reason for this search though.  I don't see any reason to just randomly search his house, they already searched it before.

this investigation literally gets stranger everyday!

****
Harry:dogs are getting back int o the car, the dogs have their own small chairs in the car...they are very special and important dogs to this....somethign is being "beat" some way or another we can hear "tack tack tack" like being dug or hit with a hammer or somethign but on concrete, atleast it sounds liek that......they are searching inside, and outside they are already leaving, we must say sincerely too much is not found here and too much we dont have to say we are alert with this and we are moving slowly here around the hosue, this is all part o fthe investigation that is going on, investigation on the outside is all quite but they are inside checking still

What's your source?  Entirely possible....

Nancy Drew -

Taking a body from the beach back to his house.  something would have been in that car.  Even after a cleanup and just doesn't fit the crime.  VDS would want to be rid of the situation, not bring it home.

So they're banging on something inside?

Weird.

I couldn't agree more!!!   :?

Bamajo:  you are absolutely correct.  They do tend to keep "trophies".  Perhaps this is what they are looking for.

Also:  I just looked online as MSNBC, nothing there about a search....

Where is everyone watching this from?  Cable?  Online somewhere?

i think at this point they are looking for any sort of evidence, be it a homemade porn video tape, panties, whatever to use against him.  how long can they keep him locked up without any evidence?  probably another reason daddy wants to visit.  to help get him released, because he knows the authorities have no smoking gun.

These kids must think something up everyday to yank everybodys chain.  "Oh we were at the lighthouse, no wait the HI, and then the Marriot, Oh wait a minute I think Joran said he dropped something at his house - what will they lead them to search tomorrow....."

Report on CNN about girls still going to C N C's-

EARLIER ON MSNBC THEY SHOWED SEARCH ALSO ON FOX EARLIER

yeah but what if something whent wrong and well knowing his dad is a judge adviced him to do somthing with whatever he brought back hom, not only that a Parent will do what it takes even if it means crossing the line to protect his child, its human instinct animals does it as well, i am not accusing nothing but i just think that it could be a possibility dont you think?

You got it Bamajo,

Daddy Warbucks is about to get his golden child released and so they need to find something solid or you're going to see Dutchbag hit the street in a matter of days.  The senior Van der Sloot has apparently "run out of patience".

yeah, the "Aruba Nights" report aired last night...nobody is changing their actions based on this case, it's still girls gone wild

And you wonder why I said (wrote) that perhaps it is time to have a chat with the mothers of these boys......

saw that last night with those teens partying in Aruba..... I thought it waqs so disrespectful. My daughter saw it and agreed that she would not be able to go there and act like that knowing about poor Natalee still missing

u r great
thx

True- I don't believe anything will stope them from going out and partying-but should always keep the buddy system in place-- so wish they for Natalee

brenda,  A i A (americaninaruba) is listening to arubian radio.  she is translating what she hears to us on the board.  you can listen to it yourself, but they don't speak english, either dutch or a mixture language called "papiamiento" (sp?).

Any idea why they would be wearing protective white suits? Would someone need to wear these if they encountered a body? Any ideas?

I'm having a hard time fully understanding the last news update.  Can anyone make it clearer?  

Does it say they are leaving?  Done with the outside?

THANK U FRIEND OF MONKEYS Getting a word here or there just isn't enough.

BRENDA - I MISSED WHAT YOU WROTE - DO YOU THINK MOM HID SOMETHING OR AM I MISSING THE POINT?

YES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TRANSLATING!

I think that's what they said.  That they are finished searching outside but are still inside.  Dogs are leaving.

I am curious about the tapping sound.   Any chance a new patio was poured from fresh concrete or something like that?

One thing that struck me as curious on Dan's site was that the account states that the police and the family of NH went to Joren's home, he wasn't there, his dad said he was at a casino, but Joren wasn't there, then they get a call from his dad saying he was at home now...What was Joran doing if he wasn't at the casino?  maybe covering evidence?

Maybe they are wearing white suits because of the outcry re:  the kid holding up the panties yesterday.  I mean that has to be Day 1 in your "don't contaminate the crime scene" course in "polis" school.  It seems public opinion is being heard down at the polis station.

maybe the body isn't on the island.... that would make sense why the boys aren't confessing cause they know it won't be found..
just can't believe someone who wasn't a "professional" would be able to have it so well hidden and without any evidence

Am I crazy or did the Dutch Officials say yesterday that the case is solved and they would be announcing something in the next 24 hours???

\

I don't think Mom did anthing at all.....INCLUDING raising her son to be a decent human being with any sorts of morals at all.  That is why I think she deserves to be called a few thousand times a day to "persuade" her to FINALLY do something, like "encourage" her son to have the decency to stop the misery that Natalee's family is going through....

They may not be professional's but maybe they have been guilty of rape and whatever before and have gotten by with it

Geraldosgirlfriend,
I agree finding a body there makes no sense.  It's possible, but not likely.

It's more likely LE is CYA and doing all the things they should have done two weeks ago!

cnn reporting they had a hearing today and deeprak's attorney who was also on camera but said little asked for documents the prosecution is witholding.  got a glimpse of deeprak in the police hard covering his face.  i think he is the taller one.  bottom line:  thye all stuck to their stories, presumably the same ones we know.  Joran was dropped off first vs they went to the lighthouse and then dropped joran at the Marriott with Natalee.

I mean IF I did hear that correctly wouldn't everyone think they are all involved with some dirty deed and that is why they are all still being held - and where are the Kalpoe's parents.

Bamabelle, I agree with you.  The more I read from wwizard and others I definately think that young lady hasn't been on that island since the beginning.  The brothers Kalpoe and Dutch bag know exactly "why" she can't be found.  The DEA angle intrigues me.

Hey yall, how is everyone today?

Yeah, I think that is just their daily mantra.

that has bothered me too.  has anyone else questioned this?  what was the time frame?  they twitty-holloway entourage goes to the vds home.  talk to dad, dad says not there.  doesn't dad go with the twitty-holloways to the casinos to look for joran and joran call daddy on the cell phone and say he is at home?  how long was that, i wonder?  that is what makes me think daddy vds is "in" on it as well.  something does not add up in that scenario.

where are the Kalpoe's parents?????  GOOD QUESTION AND ONE I AND MANY OTHERS HERE HAVE ASKED - SO HAS ANYONE SEEN OR HEARD FROM THEM - AT LEAST A STATEMENT FROM THEM ISSUED????

So they are willing to stay in jail for 100 days and not get convicted since there's not a body- maybe they will rot

Morning Dash.  There is a search goning on of Joran's house.  The family cars have been towed, etc.  FBI seems to be quite involved.

Hi Dash, how are you?  They are searching Joran's parents house right now.

Tell me Brenda is that how they handle situations in Texas.

totally agree bamajo... I think daddy is covering and an accomplice in hiding the evidence. too coincidental that when they got back after Joren's call all three boys were there leaning against the car that they were last seen in with Natalee

Nancy Drew - exactly.  Someone found a copy of "How to investigate a disappearance" in Papiapolicio and they seem to be reading Chapter 1 now.

I've not seen or heard anything from or about the parents.

Good! I wish they would have searched his home 2 weeks ago, but hey, at least it's something.

maybe 24 hrs is different there....didn't the 3 say they all had sex w/her early on in invstgation???


AIA-didn't they freely admit to this???
if so, I thing accidental death/went to other side to hide body 4 nite, then drop joran off/ then home to use computer to talk/etc...

His parents, well - I figure they are not getting anything "icky" on them like responsibility for raising two sons who would be involved in "an ugly affair" like this.....

Just my thoughts....

I agree.  Wouldn't it take more effort and thought to hide/bury her on the island.  I keep saying - she is in the water - Look at Laci - Scott kept his mouth quiet thinking they will never find her and eventually she was found.  I think she was dumped in the water, possibly by the lighthouse.

that's the thing hope, they won't sit in jail forever, and the authorities are desparate to find something to keep them in jail until natalie can be found.

hi dash.  how you holding up?

I'm with you on that one.  This seems to be that is would have been the first step once they were determined to be suspects.  They should have also been considered suspects long before they were.

not all three, just Satish and Joren

thanx for the heads up roger...

I know- they can commit such a horrible crime and get by with it that's such bulls%^& and the sad thing is that they know it

trying to catch up...not sure if this has been said....

but if the dogs are in the house...and they hear a beating noise...could be the dogs

when a search dog finds something...they start to beat or scratch on it to alert that something is there

I remember one of the released security guards saying the other night that in jail, they have a bad mosquito problem and the food is terrible.

So you can at least take small comfort in the fact that they're probably not too comfortable.

They said the dogs were outside and then put back in the car to leave while officers were still in the house looking.  Don't know if that's the case, but that's what it sounded like.

I think Natalee's mom is so incredible strong- and I admire her so much

and that's another thing that bothers me.  where the heck was deeprak?  does he have an alibi for that time?   i think he was further concealing evidence, hence that all 3 are involved in one way or the other.

Quite often - YES.

We do visit with the parents of misbehaving youths. We do holler at neighbor kids.  By "we" I refer to everyone in the community I live in...and guess what....IT WORKS.  It is amazing the effects on kids if they know ALL the adults are watching them, and WILL have a "chat" with parents as necessary.....

THe dogs have searched outside.....on the inside it was only agents....the dogs were all outside and were sitting in the car ready to go they were waitintg for htem to finish up on th einside

I too believe all 3 are involved, it's only a matter of to what degree.  But they all know.

Let's not demonize the parents.  their life is already ruined and so is the kid's and there have not even been formal charges yet.  They were obviously permissive, buy hey, they aren't the first to do so and they guy is almost 18.  they surely feel their failures more than anybody else and always will.  we don't even know them and we are bad mouthing them more than they deserve.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
"Judge not lest ye be judged"   :roll:

I'm 19 years old and I wouldn't go.  And I've already decided for my future children that they, too, will not be going.

what is dutch law or aruban law about polygraphs?

speaking of how to investigate a homicide 101, why did they not take the dogs INSIDE the house?   :roll:

They are illegal.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Natalee_Holloway


site where yahoo is reporting the search is ongoing at the house.....

here is what it says:

folks, Joran is not a psychotic killer.....

the travel business will not be affected either.......we talk big but Americans don't stick to their guns at  all.....

witness the stupid acting Boston teens there right now...

I will never understand parents in this country if I live to be 100......we are raising the silliest, brain-dead and immoral teens and nobody gives a care.....we just give them more money and more freedom and just a wink and a nod....

I don't even remember what our "senior trip" was but I am sure we left by bus in the morning and came back by 6 pm....



as far as Joran goes, he is the perfect little rich dutchboy.....no pleasure is too much, no want to far fetched...

remember the Dutch have a high tolerance for drugs and sexual expression......Amsterdam red district sound familiar...

don't expect too much from Joran's father as far as disaproval....I am sure up until now he has been proud of his son's exploits and maybe lives vicariously thru him....sad.....


poor Nat to run into that group.....

I just think it's interesting how people are so quick to attack Nat's parents as being so horrible for letting their 18 year old go on this trip, but no one says anything about the fact that Joran's parents allow their 17 year old son to lie about his age, frequent casinos, and be out at all hours of the night on school-nights.  I know my parents would have none of it if I wanted to go to a club until 2 am knowing I had school the next day!

That is a shame since although you can't use them in court, they sure can help sort things out in this kind of investigation.

Even voluntary ones are illegal?

On radio that team in van der sloot's house in white contamination suits and took away two cars. Joran's father wants to see his son and sccess denied.  He is filing a suit to see son.

LEE YOU ARE SO RIGHT  I can certainly say we did not go to any tropical anything.  It was a one day trip.

Nothing on CNN/Fox/MSNBC- how strange- they usually are all over it- hmm what's up

Dash, I personally feel a lot of things about his parents.  While I have my opinions I don't advocate people calling the parents and harrassing them.  I see that as a good way to swing sympathy the other direction in this case.

MY daughter went on a cruise but i was in the room next door! I totally trust my daughter, just not anyone else that she could come into contact with that I haven't done a background check on :D

Exactly!!!

Another discussion on 95.1!!!

While all of that is true Dash, I don't think our friend Iquitos has ever cast stones at Nat's parents either.  He is just being fair.

americaninaruba  any updates? please keep us posted :0)

what's going on?

americaninaruba  any updates? please keep us posted :0)

americaninaruba  any updates? please keep us posted :0)

reporting on other news, a suicide of a love sick young girl.

aruba is beatiful and so are the people....Bad things happen everywhere
and corrupt justice systems function daily....Imagine if no one came to US beacause of crime here????  Our govt is not perfect...if you got run thru the system once as a victim of a crime you would see quickly that the law is not on your side....  I was one of hundreds sx assaulted by a prominent boston doctor...despite people filing their assault reports to the Board of Registation inMedicne for 20 years, the BORM continued to find no reason to disciple this doctor...finding all womens reports not enuf evidence to act on ....only because he fkd with the wrong woman, and police took her seriously was the comm of MA able to prosecute doctor who is now in jail..
it took 10 years and I did not get a dime...
I still have  go to doctors, though....
one bad seed...or a few...
aruba is very nice and the people there go out of their way to share their island with us...

["Judge not lest ye be judged"   :


please, judge me......

fundamental problem with our society is that we think we can't form judgements about people...

well, yes we can.....

I

aruba is beatiful and so are the people....Bad things happen everywhere
and corrupt justice systems function daily....Imagine if no one came to US beacause of crime here????  Our govt is not perfect...if you got run thru the system once as a victim of a crime you would see quickly that the law is not on your side....  I was one of hundreds sx assaulted by a prominent boston doctor...despite people filing their assault reports to the Board of Registation inMedicne for 20 years, the BORM continued to find no reason to disciple this doctor...finding all womens reports not enuf evidence to act on ....only because he fkd with the wrong woman, and police took her seriously was the comm of MA able to prosecute doctor who is now in jail..
it took 10 years and I did not get a dime...
I still have  go to doctors, though....
one bad seed...or a few...
aruba is very nice and the people there go out of their way to share their island with us...

aruba is beatiful and so are the people....Bad things happen everywhere
and corrupt justice systems function daily....Imagine if no one came to US beacause of crime here????  Our govt is not perfect...if you got run thru the system once as a victim of a crime you would see quickly that the law is not on your side....  I was one of hundreds sx assaulted by a prominent boston doctor...despite people filing their assault reports to the Board of Registation inMedicne for 20 years, the BORM continued to find no reason to disciple this doctor...finding all womens reports not enuf evidence to act on ....only because he fkd with the wrong woman, and police took her seriously was the comm of MA able to prosecute doctor who is now in jail..
it took 10 years and I did not get a dime...
I still have  go to doctors, though....
one bad seed...or a few...
aruba is very nice and the people there go out of their way to share their island with us...

My parents would never allow that sort of behavior either - and my husband and I did not allow it out of our own sons.  BTW, one son is now a college professor, one runs a successful business - and the other one is "sadly lacking".

However - the one that is "sadly lacking" is and has been getting extreme grief from us, and will continue to do so until he "gets with the program".  Recently,  I dropped him off at the army recruiters office....

Needless to say - errant behavior IS NOT tolerated by our boys - we just expect the same from others....

sorry for the same questions, computer is ackting weired :0)

TRANSLATIONS PLEASE 95.1 THEY ARE HAVING CONVERSATIONS AND CALL INS AGAIN.

Oh I know! I'm not criticizing Iquitos or anyone else, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy that a lot of the media has demonstrated at some point... I don't advocate harassing anyone... I just wish that some people would acknowledge that our parents didn't do anything wrong!  People are accusing our parents of just giving us money and sending us off with a "wink and a nod" when that's not the case at all.  I saved up and paid for the trip myself.  I worked my butt off to get a full scholarship so my parents won't have to pay for college.  We work hard, study hard, and are good kids.  We experienced a lot of tragedy this year and were really looking forward to this break.  I wish people would think about what kind of effect their words have before they just agree that parents are irresponsible and students are not to be trusted.

NOt much their just talkign on the radio talking phoen calls form the public ,,,,they do this every day like fo ran hour its like free michrophone hour where anyone can call in and voice theri opinions, which is naythign on the island....the update was of a 30 year old woman that has just commited suicide.....so dont be alert about that it had nothign to do w/ NH

mine too-sorry to repeat

mine too-sorry to repeat

Dash,

Do you know if Joran talked to anyone of your friends or you about his family owning a boat or if he had a car and drove?

Thank U American in Aruba Just got nervous :shock:

MSNBC is doing an update after this break.

I think sad to say there is a new standard for what is considered to be a "good" kid.  When you have 9 year olds committing murder, teen prostitution etc  and your son is a straight A honor student, star athlete who "parties" he probably looks like a saint compared to what your friends little devils are doing.

Well then, let me as a parent of two daughters 20 and 22.  And as a parent that has taken them both to Aruba say that:

I don't think that your parents, chaparones or you kids did anything wrong.

Zip, zero, NADA.  

You are hereby absolved :-)

I am very sorry to hear about the young lady.  May God be with her and her family.

Dash, I assure you that most of us here feel the same way that you do about this situation.  I have defended Nat's parents, friends, and chaperones from day one and will continue to do so, just as most everyone else here has.  That's why most of the trolls leave...lol.  We have all also questioned the parental supervision of the boys in custody.  But, I think we all realize that we don't have all of the facts or information and we are just vocalizing our opinions in those situations.

FOX now

MSNBC says this is the second time they've searced the house.

will you post what FOX is saying now? I don't have access to a tv right now

Good to always remember - what is good for one set of parents also may not be good for another set.  And all I am saying is teenagers are teenagers - I was one once upon a time too  :D

They searched his home once already.  Their had to be something specific that would make them look again.

I agree.  Maybe something from the brothers?

Probably. The suits is what confuses the hell out of me.

What's up with that???  Second time - when was the first????????????

Per news looking into info to see if date rape drug was used at Joran house

Fox is saying the fbi is looking into whether or not a date rape drug was used.

See CNN now....are getting ready for a full update, including what went on in court this morning and the search of the house....

Am looking at satellite CNN now, and will get back to you with what I hear...

Good point.  I'm willing to bet they are desperate for something, anything, to hold them since the Judge has to review whatever the senior Van Der Sloot filed tomorrow.  

Also, they may be able to save face today if they can just find something in that house....so far, absolutely nothing in this investigation of 16 days now has panned out.  

Can you say "keystone cops"?

gotta go work my second job now.  sure wish i could stay and keep updated.  i will try to check in this evening when i get home.  take care you all.

my thoughts and prayers to the twitty-holloway family and friends.

First was when they took his car and originally arrested him taking his car.

I think they might have been looking for something like a date rape drug.

if that is the case...which I have said it was from the very beginning, we can have a good idea of what might have happened.

Why protective gear?  Is that normal when searching a house?  Does it have to do with their search for drugs?

yes please keep me updated w/ TV NEws ...im at work no TV here just radio!

Exactly Ben

of course we form judgements and we act on them.  we don't need to spread them around.  personally i think the idea of parents sending their kids on a trip to a known binge island for highschool graduatuion is very bad judgement.  There are more uplifting and educational options than going to a desert island to drink and gamble.  I mean, what were they thinking.  They could have gone on a camping trip, to the grand canyon, on an environmental tour or to an archeological expedition.  They could have gone to dc to see the museums and the seat of government.  They could have volunteered for a habitat for humanity project in a foreign country.  Somebody sold them the Aruba binge trip and they bought it rather than pushing back.  They succumbed to peer pressure.    Of course the kids want to go because they know what they are going for.  And we certainly don't want to ever disappoint our wonderful spoiled children.  They so have their heart set on Aruba.  The parents should have collectively put their foot down in the manner of the Houston poster who said they had collective discipline, a sort of social buddy system.  that is very rare in most communities where you don't even know your neighbors and would not dare correct their kids.   I do not fault anyone in particular but their was obviously a failure of values on this decsion.  See CNN report on the Boston kids down there this week.  Drunk on their asses and having a ball, and with luck they will make it home with no more than an headache, a sunburn, and sleep deprivation.   Natalee apparently had bad luck.  Who markets these packages to kids?

[/quote]First was when they took his car and originally arrested him taking his car. I think they might have been looking for something like a date rape drug.[/quote]

Didn't they take his computer during that first search?

everything from the beginning of this coming out had "GHB" written all over it...they should have looked from day 1

I'm thinking the FBI is getting more involved.  I doubt that the aruban authorities would have white suits like that.  And the dogs were from the FBI.

Thanks for keeping me updated while I am at work- can only read the posts a bit here and there.  You are all doing a great job!

I think this case is going to get VERY very interesting over the next few days as Daddy Warbucks VDS gets more shall we say "politically active".  

They NEED to search that house and find something to keep that kid in jail.  Otherwise I'm sure the Daddy Warbucks has Thomas Mesereau all lined up to pack up the monkey and come fight for the release of his son.  

Once the "polis" leave the VDS mansion, the gas pedal will be pressed on the VDS political/legal machine to get that kid out.

and I'm telling you, these guys have done it before

They first searched Juron's home when he was arrested on June 9 (same day as the Kalpoe brothers were arrested).  I believe that's when they took his computer from the house.  Not sure how thorough the search was though.

From cnn.com on June 9
Towels covered the faces of the three as authorities led them from their homes. Police searched the homes afterward. At a news conference later, police said they seized a vehicle and other items but declined to elaborate.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/09/missing.teen/

u r gd @ multi tasking, AIA!

i can't just leave!  darn it.  
GGF you are so right.  even though i have no clue as to who thomas mesereau is.  care to enlighten me?

I never said anything about the people there.  I've been to Aruba before, they were wonderful.  However, the justice system there is not proving to be much there.  Their "polis" look pretty incompetent, and that is definately not what I would want going on if I or my daughter, or anyone for that matter, was missing and feared dead.  I trust US law WAY more than what I'm seeing of Arubas.

I agree- these guys have gotten by with this date rape drug before- no doubt in my mind

Alot of theories about VDS selling the young victim to Venezeula.  Any ideas on how lucrative that would be?  what kind of money would be involved for the Cowpoke twins and Dutch bag if they were front men for an operation like that?  Just curious.

Wow.  That was pretty harsh. I'm not going to freak out and tell you what I really want to in response to that, because we are all entitled to our own opinions.  However, I will say that you are really off-base with your accusations.  This trip was about relaxing, I dont think you realize that our school is known for housing some of the hardest working students in the country.  I'm not going to go into my own extracurriculars, but know they were pretty extensive... and I'm by far not the busiest person who went!  We do volunteer, and a lot.  I was actually an officer for the Habitat for Humanity club.  I think your perceptions of us are completely inaccurate.  We are good kids.

Mesereau is Michael Jackson's attorney

ok i have to say you guys have a totaly wrong view of the VDS social status...they have a small house nothgin big just a normal neighbor hood home, the pool is very recent about 3 months, they ahve 2 cars that are like 7 years old (in aruba people change cars every 4 to 5 years), none of the kids have their own cars, they are the cheapest poeple youll ver meet and i think the mother hasnt had new clothes since 2000 becuae ive seen her in the same thign since forever! they DO NOT have a yacht and much less a mansion! just do get our perspectives in place...oh and the HOnda belonged to the Kalpoe brothers, JORAN does NOT have a car! he cant even drive! you get your licnese at 18 here NOT 16

Mickey said Deepk said she was heavily influenced by alcohol, no drugs...
he seem to have gotten good info out of Deepak... He talked w/ him for over a day bfore he told dpk who he really was...
Mickey knows more than he can say right now, but I believe him/ not drugged....

Mickey said Deepk said she was heavily influenced by alcohol, no drugs...
he seem to have gotten good info out of Deepak... He talked w/ him for over a day bfore he told dpk who he really was...
Mickey knows more than he can say right now, but I believe him/ not drugged....

BAMAJO -

[/quote]i can't just leave!  darn it.  
GGF you are so right.  even though i have no clue as to who thomas mesereau is.  care to enlighten me?[/quote]

Thomas Mesereau is Michael Jackson's lawyer.  I figure Senior VDS can probably handle that retainer.

Thanks FofMonkeys! I apreciate that, let me go print that and give it to my husband! hahahhahaha :P

Whats the average annual salary in Aruba

BIBI BO TEI?

Yeah, of course he's going to say not drugged!  But why are they now looking for GHB or something at VDS's house?  They had to have been tipped.  Actions speak louder than words in this instance, yet again.  

Even so, VDS might not have said anything about drugging girls.  

GHB, when mixed w/ alcohol in large amounts causes coma and death

Friend,

I sure wish you could get that info out of him...but I understand that he can't give out certain info due to the investigation.

The average income is less than $20,000

Guy on Fox saying the suits are either to keep crime scene clean or to avoid contact with drugs.

AIA -
 
Is it wealth or political connections that people are talking about?  I agree with you that they don't appear to be extremely wealthy and when I talk about the VDS mansion I'm just kidding

Howver, if Van der Straten golfs with Daddy Warbucks rich or not, that family must have INFLUENCE no?  Influence is more important than money in some cases.  Just ask Mickey John.

Help me out here- is it really TRUE that the Polis followed the guys are releasing/questioning them the first time

bibi bo mester primi refresh botton riba bo computer ariba kada biaha  ya bo ta hanja e ultimo pagina ku nan ta skirbi  di dje ;0) no lubida!!!!

If there is anybody out there who knows Joran personally, and it has to be verifyable, and wishes to speak to a member of the media, send me an email to

tom@scaredmonkeys.com

This will be absolutely confidential. A major media outlet in the US is looking for a contact.

Thanks

Tom

does anybody know what the salary for a police officer is there?  (just curious)

What do you mean, Ben?

I know you are good kids.  I have no doubt about that.  I am referring to the societal norm.  there are better ways to spend time than drinking which happened in this case and gambling which also happened, and drugs which is alleged, not with Natalee but with others on the trip.  These activities are present wherever yough people gather.  It sets up a loose atmosphere where accidents can happen.  Most of the time they don't.  Unfortunately they did this time.  We need to reflect on this.   I am not blaming or judging anybody.  Is this Aruba trip an annual event?  Who markets it?  Do you think it will happen next year?

Does anyone know what the salary for an ex security guard who solves an international crime is?

Love Cape Cod - Martha's Vineyard

Now that is compeltely different...connections here are very "easly" found, you just help out at a someones house a couple of times or go play some golf, and bam!, you are eligable to "ask a favor", and remembr these 2 guys are FRIENDS, as I understood VDS was V/D Stratens boss before he went to finish his studies to becoem a judge, now that is one majro connection dont you think? Well being with the aruban peopl they are also VERY frustrated w/ that freindship, in the newspaper everyday they are trying to 'reveal' results due  to that connection, but i think V/DStratens days are counted becuase the peolpe are really getting on his back and they are moving other peole to 'join' the current group to see if their is anythign fishy and there not too happy w/ that

[/quote]Mickey said Deepk said she was heavily influenced by alcohol, no drugs...he seem to have gotten good info out of Deepak... He talked w/ him for over a day bfore he told dpk who he really was...
Mickey knows more than he can say right now, but I believe him/ not drugged....[/quote]

Of course he's going to say that..he couldn't very well say she was under the influence of drugs they had given her.

I agree with some other folks here - this wasn't their first time at this.  If these 3 had NEVER done anything like this, they would have cracked the first day.

thanx for the real deal

thanks GGF!!!  i knew i had heard the name, but could not place it.  i did not keep up with the mj circus.

i have to admit, i've always heard about GHB and knew it was the "date rape" drug and all that, but i just did a little investigating and found this very informative website:

http://www.projectghb.org/what_is_ghb.htm

FOM, i know you said that mickey said there was no drugs, but the scenario of joran slipping her that drug (perhaps too much) and then them all or just maybe joran taking advantage of her and "something bad happening" (like her going into a coma, passing out, dying whatever) and them freaking out and disposing of the body.

time will tell.

I just feel that these guys have experience using drugs on girls to get what they want

Read my post from last night:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?p=3623&highlight=#3623

Since asking about salaries, how about teachers and gynecologists?  Aruba is a separate country not like Curacao and Bonaire who are still under Netherlands?  Any info on this, thanks

NO SHIT....no more bummin' cigaretees...but the truth is Mickey does not smoke cigs, drink, or do no coke.

I wish you would think about how you say things next time.  Your sarcasm is very callus and cruel.  We're not spoiled little brats, as you've implied.  

Yes, it is an annual event.  I dont feel comfortable telling you about who markets it, but no I don't think they'll do it again.

On Fox and ex FBI agent said they probably wore the white protective suits so that they would not absorb any drugs into their skin.  Does anyone know if GHB or any other date rape drug can be absorbed through the skin?

Yeah gosh...most of us AREN'T spoiled little brats. A lot of people here live very comfortably, but a lot of people don't-and most people's parents do WORK for their money, and so do the kids. And yeah I'm betting they won't do it again.

they interviewed the parent who arranged the trip last night...wasnt a very informative or long interview though.

thumbs up dash.

GHB is rapidly absorbed by oral, intravenous, and intraperitoneal routes

The primary effect of GHB is central nervous system depression. Its initial clinical use was therefore to induce anesthesia. It is still used in Europe as an adjunct for anesthesia. GHB induces a trancelike state that mimics physiologic sleep. It also may protect the central nervous system for injury during hypoxic episodes, hibernation states and/or states of increased metabolic demands. Animal research demonstrated a potential for high doses to cause seizures

Friend of Monkeys-

 I have to say I really think Mickey John is emerging as the "unlikely hero" in this.  He's the first guy they point the finger at, yet he's not bitter, not angry, he's just seeking the truth.  When asked if he was going to sue the gov't he said "I'll talk to my lawyer".  When they asked him questions in papio policio he says "we'll do it in english" which clearly demonstrates his understanding of the american public's involvement in the story.  Smart guy.  You're right FOM, no more bumming cigarettes.

Mickey said Deepk said she was heavily influenced by alcohol, no drugs...he seem to have gotten good info out of Deepak... He talked w/ him for over a day bfore he told dpk who he really was...
Mickey knows more than he can say right now, but I believe him/ not drugged....[/quote]

Of course he's going to say that..he couldn't very well say she was under the influence of drugs they had given her.

I agree with some other folks here - this wasn't their first time at this.  If these 3 had NEVER done anything like this, they would have cracked the first day.[/quote]
What i dont understand is didnt they catch "MIKEY" at least a week before they took THE threeo into custody? i mean i think hey new who he was talking to since he saw this man (mikey) on tv beeing taken to prison, so maybe this was another scam of Deepak he new who he was talking to and he told this story so they can get of his back and onto VDS's i am not defending nobody i just think it could be a possibility dont you think?
why would i tell a total stranger in the jail cell (but i dont think these to men knew eachother before) (just think that Deepak new who he was and told him that story purposly) supposely what i did knowing how big of a case this is

ok, am really gone this time.

hang in there dash.

take care all.

AMEN, M!!!

Aruba is still under the authority and protection of the Netherlands.  They are just not part of the Netherlands Antilles, which Curacao and Bonaire (among others) are part of.

I believe the police in Aruba make around $20,000 per year...  pretty standard for Aruba.  Not sure about teachers and gynocologists...

thank you :0)

Haha...well I feel that needs to be cleared up NOW...I mean I really can't think of that many people that don't have a job of some sort...

:idea: Am I the only one who feels like Natalee may have been taken off of the island....Could she have been sold? or in some sort of prostitution ring?  Maybe I am just wishing to hard for her to be alive somewhere......

DJ Taylor - I had not thought of this, you're 100% right



THose kids would have recognized Mickey John anywhere.  His face was all over the news during their "CYA" pool party.

Haha...well I feel that needs to be cleared up NOW...I mean I really can't think of that many people that don't have a job of some sort...

I really think that some people should leave dash and the chaperones alone.  The kids were 18!  They are all going off to college in less then 3 months without parental supervision.  The kids were looking out for each other as even stated by dash asking Natalee if she was okay and they went into another bar to make sure nobody was left behind.  And so what if they were drinking...the drinking age is 18 in Aruba.  How many 19 year old Americans cross the Canadian border to drink on the weekend (where the drinking age is 19).

Seriously... besides, not a lot of us have very big houses... you've seen mine, you can attest... it ain't no mansion! haha.  I have to pay for practically everything myself... I'm working 5 to 6 days a week for the rest of the summer!

we are pursuing every angle on this forum...

GHB would be a perfect way to put someone in a "trance-like" so that they could be moved

I would like to know for sure what the searches of the house and the beach are based on

they said that they were not in the same cell...so he wouldnt have seen his face....

question is how many people in here drank before they were 21? before 16? i was.... it is not the chap's or other students fault. these adults are just that ADULTS....

Yeah our whole street is normal...there's no big houses here at all...

I agree and one spoonful of two much GHB fits their actions afterwards, fits why no blood, fits why no struggle etc.

Date rape drug is  called GHB or "G" alot of people here in the us take it for the fun of it, aperantly its gives a "good vibe" but you have to know how much to put in your drink to get that effect if you put a few drops more a memory can totatly be wiped out and a few more drops then that  can kill the persone :0) this drug is dangerous it has no smell no taste nothing, please keep your eyes peeled out there, this drug is very very popular here in miami, it originated in CHicago, the used to be used for  BODYBUILDERS
TO GET THAT UMPH BUT TO MUCH OF IT CAN HURT KILL OR AFFECT YOUR MEMORY yet still most people take it for the fun of it....................its just sad

Thanks guys!  I think a lot of people don't realize that the majority of the people who went on the trip aren't drinkers... they drank some because it's legal there and we had free food and drinks... you take advantage of what's given to you.  
Also, the drug allegations are just silly... we're all afraid of drug dealers! haha

yes, it is affectionately known as "liquid X" (ecstasy, for those not down w/ the lingo) ;-)

Fox was just showing pictures of the "men in white".

But he said they both signed a "we don't know eachother" declaration so they had to have looked at eachother.

I'm not saying NH willingly took drugs, but I know a lot of people here in NYC who have been drugged w/ GHB...again, I allude to my post from last night

Haha yeah...drug dealers in Mountain Brook? When we did the drug survey no one knew the answers except for about alcohol and pot...I mean really.

Thanks Ben for the complete info about the date rape drug and its effects..are you a Dr?  Fox news just had former FBI agent in and discussed date rape drug.  ghb and rohipnal  poured or dropped in drink tasteless, person goes into stupor and memory loss.  After the attack there would be no recollection what happened.  Can be toxic if too much given or alcohol mixed with ghb greater effect...this just reported to collaborate what Ben reported...

Doesn't look like an overly nice place - per pics on Fox

exactly thats the word i was trying to look for ahahh i speak papiamentu so my english kinds sux, but any persone who goes out to clubs and parties alot will know about this drug ( i work used to work for 3 years in clubs of southbeach) and its jusst sad seeing what goes on.

Seriously... we don't know anything about drugs, because we don't do them!  There's no time when your busy fighting over who can have the highest GPA!! haha

Something posted previously:

NativeLingo Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 11:19 pm
No ruffies related cases ever reported.

Please- is there any truth to the fact that they used tracking devices on these three

no, I'm not a Dr., I just go out a lot in NYC and have had friends who have been drugged, most recently sat night, so to dash and mhbs05, i know you say that you don't know anything about drugs, please be careful, especially when you go off to school.  A guy doesn't have to be a dealer to drop something in your drink.

2 WEEKS PASSED AND NO CONFESSION YET. IS V. DER SLOOT SUPERMAN OR IS HE INNOCENT.??? I CAN NOT IMAGINE A KID FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE WITH PROBLEMS WITH THE JUSTICE AND A CASE WITH SUCH A MAGNITUD IS STILL NOT TALKING. OR HE IS INNOCENT OR HE IS SUPERMAN?? GOD HAS A REASON WITH ALL THIS. THE YOUTH WANTS TO HAVE FUN WITH PARTYING, DRINKING, DRUGS AND SEX. THIS IS  THE CONSEQUENCES. NATALLEE WAS DRUNK, THAT IS WHAT THE 2 SURNAMESE BROTHERS ARE SAYING, IF SO WHY YOU TOOK HER INTO YOUR CAR???WHAT FUN CAN YOU HAVE WITH A DRUNKEN PERSON???YOU GUYS ASKED FOR PROBLEMS, SO FEEL THE HEAT NOW!!AND THAT GIRLFRIEND OF NATALEE SAYING THAT SHE LOOKED WEIRD IN THE BATHROOM AND SHE WAS DRUNK, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU REALLY ARE NOT A REAL GIRLFIEND. GIRLFRIENDS WATCH ONE OVER THE OTHER, YOU SHOULD HAVE GRAB HER BY HER ARMS AND BRING HER TO THE HOTEL, ESPECIALLY KNOWING SHE HAD TO CATCH THE FLIGHT IN THE MORNING. GOD IS SHOWING THE YOUTH OR YOU SERVE ME OR THE DEVIL. ALCOHOL, DRUGS IS THE DEVIL PARTYING WITH YOU AND SEX SHOULD BE WITH YOUR PARTNER NOT ANYBODY YOU MET AND THE SAME DAY YOU HAD SEX, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE DRUNK. HOPE NATALEE IS STILL ALIVE AND THIS IS A LESSON FOR PARENTS THAT GAVE THEIR KIDS PERMISSION TO BE LATE AT NIGHT ON STREETS AND THE YOUTH THAT THINK THEY CAN HANDLE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS. I WILL BE PRAYING FOR THE STRENGHTH OF THE PARENTS OF BOTH SIDES. GOD HELP THEM, I DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THEIR SHOES.
 [/list]

Well at least it's not like other places...I fear all weird shady people...including drug dealers. And I think we're all like that here.

2 WEEKS PASSED AND NO CONFESSION YET. IS V. DER SLOOT SUPERMAN OR IS HE INNOCENT.??? I CAN NOT IMAGINE A KID FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE WITH PROBLEMS WITH THE JUSTICE AND A CASE WITH SUCH A MAGNITUD IS STILL NOT TALKING. OR HE IS INNOCENT OR HE IS SUPERMAN?? GOD HAS A REASON WITH ALL THIS. THE YOUTH WANTS TO HAVE FUN WITH PARTYING, DRINKING, DRUGS AND SEX. THIS IS  THE CONSEQUENCES. NATALLEE WAS DRUNK, THAT IS WHAT THE 2 SURNAMESE BROTHERS ARE SAYING, IF SO WHY YOU TOOK HER INTO YOUR CAR???WHAT FUN CAN YOU HAVE WITH A DRUNKEN PERSON???YOU GUYS ASKED FOR PROBLEMS, SO FEEL THE HEAT NOW!!AND THAT GIRLFRIEND OF NATALEE SAYING THAT SHE LOOKED WEIRD IN THE BATHROOM AND SHE WAS DRUNK, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU REALLY ARE NOT A REAL GIRLFIEND. GIRLFRIENDS WATCH ONE OVER THE OTHER, YOU SHOULD HAVE GRAB HER BY HER ARMS AND BRING HER TO THE HOTEL, ESPECIALLY KNOWING SHE HAD TO CATCH THE FLIGHT IN THE MORNING. GOD IS SHOWING THE YOUTH OR YOU SERVE ME OR THE DEVIL. ALCOHOL, DRUGS IS THE DEVIL PARTYING WITH YOU AND SEX SHOULD BE WITH YOUR PARTNER NOT ANYBODY YOU MET AND THE SAME DAY YOU HAD SEX, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE DRUNK. HOPE NATALEE IS STILL ALIVE AND THIS IS A LESSON FOR PARENTS THAT GAVE THEIR KIDS PERMISSION TO BE LATE AT NIGHT ON STREETS AND THE YOUTH THAT THINK THEY CAN HANDLE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS. I WILL BE PRAYING FOR THE STRENGHTH OF THE PARENTS OF BOTH SIDES. GOD HELP THEM, I DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THEIR SHOES.
 [/list]

It was just reported in the news today that they have been electronically monitored since they were first interviewed.  I don't know if that means tracking devices or just phone taps??

What is it about this case that seems to be drawing all of the nuts out of the woodwork.

Please don't talk in all caps... it makes me crosseyed.  :)

Just so you know, Nat did not willingly have sex with anyone...  we had talked about it before, we planned to be virgins until we get married.  Don't judge her, she didn't do anything wrong.

I'll go on record stating that I think sending teenagers to a party island  with prostitution and a casino plus drinking allowed at 18 to be a utterly senseless act, "tradition" or not.....

okay....send your boys......but why send your girls?

sure, if your 18 you can go where you want.....but why would parents otherwise fund this activity?

if only one girl dies out of thousands , I guess some would say its worth it.....

but none of this very sad episode will change some parents.......

I am speaking as a parent of three, with the youngest girl just turned 20......she had the misfortune to have something slipped into her drink at a mall, during the day, with friends around, only to be taken outside in her stupor and raped... this happened several yrs ago......SO I KNOW IT CAN HAPPEN ANYTWHERE AT ANY TIME and my dtr is a good kid.....

but why take chances?.........why temp fate?....

there are too many amoral sociopathic Joran's around in this world.....


we have to change our mindset ...

I'll go on record stating that I think sending teenagers to a party island  with prostitution and a casino plus drinking allowed at 18 to be a utterly senseless act, "tradition" or not.....

okay....send your boys......but why send your girls?

sure, if your 18 you can go where you want.....but why would parents otherwise fund this activity?

if only one girl dies out of thousands , I guess some would say its worth it.....

but none of this very sad episode will change some parents.......

I am speaking as a parent of three, with the youngest girl just turned 20......she had the misfortune to have something slipped into her drink at a mall, during the day, with friends around, only to be taken outside in her stupor and raped... this happened several yrs ago......SO I KNOW IT CAN HAPPEN ANYTWHERE AT ANY TIME and my dtr is a good kid.....

but why take chances?.........why temp fate?....

there are too many amoral sociopathic Joran's around in this world.....


we have to change our mindset ...

Anybody know if the men in white suits are STILL in that house????

hahahah,i guess there is just alot of consearned parents out there, we must be patient with everybody :0) AHAHAHH

i am 24 and when i was 16-20 i drank a lot. never did drugs though. the older people on this board need to remember back to when they were our age... what were they doing? we are doing the same things... im sure that this type of stuff happened back then... its made more public now though. technology has changed everything. back then you would get stopped for a DUI and the cop would bring you home, no charges... now you get pictures taken put on billboards, newspaper, and the news.... come on people!!!

Hey Ben--I'm in NYC too--I'd love to know where you went Sat. so I can avoid it! (Even just the block it's on and the first initial!)

Wow, that's not sexist at all... oh wait, I'm lying, yes it is. :roll:


We didn't do anything wrong.  It's not her fault.  My parents are AWESOME... I am eternally grateful to them for all they've done for me.  I'm sure most of the students on the trip would say the same.  I dont think this trip was in any way a poor decision on anyone's part. Our parents aren't stupid... they look out for us. No one could have anticipated this... I guess it's easy for oyu to judge others, but seriously, give it a rest.

can we save the speculation on wheter it is right or wrong to send kids to aruba for another post...we're not going to change each others minds on this and it is going in circles..imho

Previously posted:

arubagirl Says:
 
June 12th, 2005 at 1:58 pm

Cancun, v/d Sloot, who everyone seems to be concentrating, is prob. upper middle class. I’m guessing his father earns about $70,000 max per year (taking the $1=afl. 1.80 exchange rate). I think it’s more in the $55.000 range. It’s a lot of money by Aruban standards, but I doubt that they’re millionares.

Quote:im sure that this type of stuff happened back then... its made more public now though. technology has changed everything. back then you would get stopped for a DUI and the cop would bring you home, no charges...

A DUI is a far cry from a case like this.  Believing that incidents like this occurred way back when and weren't made public is only true in a very limited sense.  

Violent crime has steadily escalated over the years - statistics will bear that out - and we are becoming more and more desensitized to it.  Look how many children are molested these days - look at Laci Peterson, Lori Hacking, and many, many others.  Sure they get more media coverage, but the numbers are simply up there, as opposed to the June Cleaver days.  Fact of life.

When I saw them dressed like they do here in the states at a crime scene my first thought was (Oh how I pray this is not the case) maybe he took Nat there to his home i, e, back yard to bury her. I know this sounds terrible, but that was my first thought.

haha...I've seen it happen to people all over the city...

but if you must know, it happend at Quo, extremely "posh" club on 28th and 10th...and if you avoid that area you have to avoid Marquee, Bed, Cain, and Crobar...some of the nicest clubs in ny.

it can happen anywhere, just watch your drink!

the population has gotten a big larger also.......

Not to be rude, but if your parents have been looking out for you all these years, don't you girls know to look out for your friends and not let them go off with strange guys in a foreign country when they've been drinking?

maybe that is the case, i mean i remeber i swore with my friends aswell that i would stay a virgin till i get married, look i am not speaking bad of her but, when i turned 19 i met a young man and boom next thing you know it i broke my promise but i didnt tell anyone that not even my best friend  how could i? i mean i made a promise! just dont be to blind, maybe you are right and she didnt do anything wrong and even if she did have sex thats okay, its just the fact that you must be carefull especially when your drinking, your judgment is just not okay and things could happen, unfortunalty she head out with the rong crowd(three brothers) who saw her bad judgment and took advantage of it, maybe willingly (but in her bad judgment) she had sex maybe not we werent there to say anything. but just dont be blind :0) my prayers do go out to her parents friends family and herself :0)

I sure wish that some of us here on this forum and in some news reports would lay off the group of young adults from Mountain Brook and etc who were on the trip.   We do not know what Nat did or felt about Joran so let's not make the victim the culprit like because she's there she "asked for it" ....In the 70's I was on the island of Curacao  and met someone in the hotel's dining room and developed a relationship that has lasted 30 years.  Granted I do not know if there were these kinds of drugs out then but other than the torpical drinks we based relationship on getting to know each other.'s cultures. If I was so cautious and did not allow myself to get to know this Curacao person,   I may have missed this friendship.

We didn't "let her go" it just happened.  I'm not going to go into the whole story again, but just know that no one knew that was what was happening.  We did all look out for eachother... some things are just unavoidable

yeah, seriously, lay off the kids.

I apologize to the kids on the trip.  I obviously do not know all the facts.

However, I do question the general practice.  Is there a state in the union that allows drinking or gambling at 18?  Do some states still have dry counties?  Personally I think the drinking, voting, and military service age should be the same.  I think drinking is a civil right.  We can send these kids to Iraq and they can't have a beer once in awhile to relax?  But that is not the way the law is.  So we impose a drinking age of 21 and then send out kids offshore to drink at 18?  Odd and at least a tad hypocritical.  :roll:

p.s. I was not a big drinker at 18 but it had touched my lips.

It IS rude...they didn't know she was going to do that, and everyone thought nothing of it, and she didn't either, because he'd been hanging around so much. Can't blame them, no matter how hard you try.

it doesn't matter if she drank, did drugs willingly, went to aruba at 18...had sex......even if she had been standing there completely naked....NOBODY HAD THE RIGHT TO HURT HER!!!

I think its pretty ridiculous to say there aren't any drugs at MBHS.  There are a lot of people who don't do them, but there are a lot of people that do.  Natalee was one of those that didn't, but you can't ignore all the people that do.  Of all the suburbs I would say MB is the worst, they have the means and connections to acquire them.

Exactly!

Ha, I'm a kid myself.

And I would NEVER let a friend go off with some strange guy.  Wouldn't happen.

you're right it's going in circles and I'm way behind in my reading!  : )]

The Iraq thing - that is the one thing that has been bothering me the past few days.  I listen to these people on the radio saying that 17 and 18 year olds are not old enough to go to Aruba for a graduation trip and that 17 and 18 is not "grown up"..yet..they're old enough to go to Iraq to get shot at?  I think that's pretty grown up!  Makes sense, doesn't it?

That's been a big problem in the past, because YES people have the money, but that doesn't mean they buy drugs with it. Pot is rampant here, but hardcore drugs? I don't think so. I'm friends with the few that have tried that and even THEY are scared of the drug dealers. So in general, no one here is going to go near that. Pot is rampant just because it's so easy to get from people who are a little less scary. Alcohol is a bigger problem than drugs.

Do you go to MB?  I think you might have been misinformed....

TO MANY SHOULDA WOULDA COULDA look it happend and it probably happend for a reason lets just take this situation apply it to our lives and be safer now that we go out, we can start pointing fingers but it will get us nowhere :0) lets just stick togetter and hope this will be  a happy ending and a lesson for all of us YOUNG AND OLD

Thought NOTHING of their drunk friend going off with strangers?  I understand that you can't blame the friends, the only people you can blame here are the ones who are responsible for what happened to Natalee, but that's just irresponsibility on their part.

yes, people here seem to miss the point of what happened here.

The people to blame are the people who took advantage of NH, not NH, not her family, not her friends, not the chaperones, not even Joren's parents.

Fact:  the 3 were the last that we know to have seen NH.  They are to blame for whatever happened to her and for covering up what happened to her.

Unless you are FROM here, you don't know what you're talking about...mkay?

Are they still searching the house?   PLEASE lay off the kids

Maybe it was more of a problem in the past, but it still exists.  I'm not saying that this has anything to do with natalee but don't tell falsities like "no one does hard drugs" b/c thats not true, and i know that for a fact.

I READ YOUR POST AN GHB AND TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU...
she may have been just drunk when the 2 boys last saw her/or not.. It was   prob her last drink/unfortunately....

The last drink

No offense, but when the first people (some of your parents and friends) started posting about Natalee's disappearance on our various forums (not crime-related), the very first thing they said was "you have to understand this is the richest suburb in the US--highest per-capita income."

I had never heard of Mountain Brook, so my immediate thought was that it is tonier and swankier than Beverly Hills, Santa Barbara, Grosse Pointe, Newport, on and on.  That's a "WOW!"

For me, that's why I thought the ensuing reports of "out-there" spending on extravagant things by MB people must be true.  Did some people think this would make Natalee's disappearance more important?  Would the press pick up on it and spread the word more easily because Natalee's family must be important, if they live in such an affluent neighborhood?

I guess the strategy worked, but you have to live with the impression that was made.  Now we're learning that the VDS's aren't particularly wealthy, either, which was also a fiction perpetrated by the media accounts.

Are you from here? There is a SMALL minority that tries real drugs. SMALL. How do you know for  a fact, pray tell?

Well, you werent there, now were you? So I guess you have no idea what the situation was now do you? So I guess you're just talking out your butt, now arent you?

I don't have the time or energy to sit here and argue with you.  You don't know what you're talking about and frankly I'm insulted by your ignorance.

sitting here wondering....why am I getting so angry.....because I know that we are all human....not perfect....people make mistakes...

DONT ASSUME.....WHEN YOU ASSUME YOU MAKE AN ASS OUT OF YOU AND ME!!

listen guys...lay off the kids...let's place the blame where it really is, on the 3 guys who last saw her.

don't you think her friends are going through enough right now??? so, leave it alone!

Just heard on Fox that  Joran wanted to change his lawyers..I think motion was denied.

Go A!

i do understand your point but realistically IF YOU ARE DRUNK AND NAKED  PEOPLE WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE UNFORTUNATLY WE ARE LIVING IN A WORLD LIKE THIS...........i do understand nobody and nobody should have a right  to hurt anybody but it happens. but we do need to stop pointing fingers( to those people saying that the friends didnt help) remeber everybody is having fun nobody expect bad to happen so i will apologize on behalf of those who are pointing fingers towards the family and friends.

Seriously, it DOES happen all over the place.  It's not just an Aruba thing, or a New York City thing, or whatever.  Hell, it has happened to a friend of mine in a college bar in Auburn, Alabama .. what are we going to do .. not allow our kids to go to college?

highensight is always 20/20... these people are saying what shoulda happened.. doesnt always work out like that....you thought she was safe... she used her judgement... im sure that there have been times that something like this has happened before and everythign was fine... i think --- said it happened to her the night before. She felt safe....

Any news as the why he would want to change lawyers.

I agree---TOTALLY

small minority, small school...it shows up...mkay

Sounds like the first rumblings of the "Releasemyson-athon".  Get ready everyone.

Possibly...but not as much as you THINK. (Not know...I assume you aren't from here, since you haven't said you are.)

Well, you werent there, now were you? So I guess you have no idea what the situation was now do you? So I guess you're just talking out your butt, now arent you?

I don't have the time or energy to sit here and argue with you.  You don't know what you're talking about and frankly I'm insulted by your ignorance.[/quote]

19, going on 20.  I've been on those types of trips..more than once.  You were all warned about this kind of stuff, I'm sure.  Mommy and daddy ever tell you not to go off with strangers?  Hear about the buddy system?  Once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE KIDS WHO WENT, but come on, why wasn't anybody using common sense!?

Does anyone know if they are still searching the house?????

Let's start a thread called "The Blame Game" and we can debate who is most at fault.

19, going on 20.  I've been on those types of trips..more than once.  You were all warned about this kind of stuff, I'm sure.  Mommy and daddy ever tell you not to go off with strangers?  Hear about the buddy system?  Once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE KIDS WHO WENT, but come on, why wasn't anybody using common sense!?[/quote]

Well if you aren't blaming people, then QUIT asking. They weren't strangers to her. If you don't want to blame, then drop it. Because it doesn't matter anymore.

There's more crime in a small suburb in the US than Aruba, I'm sure.

Sheesh, the *stories* that we are getting!  First report this morning was that the judge told Carlos he was off the case!

19, going on 20.  I've been on those types of trips..more than once.  You were all warned about this kind of stuff, I'm sure.  Mommy and daddy ever tell you not to go off with strangers?  Hear about the buddy system?  Once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE KIDS WHO WENT, but come on, why wasn't anybody using common sense!?[/quote]


SO PLEASE STOP DEBATING?BEATING DEAD HORSE>>>THE SITE WILL HAVE BS OVERLOAD AND GO INTO LOCK OUT>...PLEASE

no news i take it....

19, going on 20.  I've been on those types of trips..more than once.  You were all warned about this kind of stuff, I'm sure.  Mommy and daddy ever tell you not to go off with strangers?  Hear about the buddy system?  Once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE KIDS WHO WENT, but come on, why wasn't anybody using common sense!?[/quote]

You ARE blaming us!! And you're totally out of line! You have NO IDEA what the situation was! I'm glad you're 19, but what does that have to do with anything?  Don't spit out cliches and act all high and mighty.  You're being absolutely infuriating.  We all took precautions... there was nothing we could do! Don't you think we all feel enough unneccesary guilt?  BACK OFF!

Exactly, A. GO AWAY.

NADA

MB people:  Thanks for the valuable insights.  Sounds about right.  Marijauna is, however, a very potent drug, not anything like it was 30 years ago when I did not inhale.  

Joran's lawyer:  I understood Joran's lawyer was being removed by the court and he was fighting it.

You ARE blaming us!! And you're totally out of line! You have NO IDEA what the situation was! I'm glad you're 19, but what does that have to do with anything?  Don't spit out cliches and act all high and mighty.  You're being absolutely infuriating.  We all took precautions... there was nothing we could do! Don't you think we all feel enough unneccesary guilt?  BACK OFF![/quote]

No, I'm NOT blaming you, I think you should use your HEAD.  Me being 19 has to do with the fact that I've been there, and I'm in the same positions (being out at bars, on trips, etc.) and it's not hard to use the buddy system.

Have you ever thought that might be because several crimes in the U.S. (drinking age, prostitution) are legal in Aruba.

I enjoy reading these posts and the insights people have. But this finger pointing is uncalled for.

People, get back on track with why we're all here!!

HEY ALL First of all STOP PLEASE picking on the young group from Alabama - they have certainly been thru enough.   Second - let's just pray that swift justice IS DONE-= we all need it.

Well, you know, you can keep saying "It isn't hard" but all you're doing is blaming. Go away.

No, I'm NOT blaming you, I think you should use your HEAD.  Me being 19 has to do with the fact that I've been there, and I'm in the same positions (being out at bars, on trips, etc.) and it's not hard to use the buddy system.[/quote]

bkelly, take this to a seperate forum, please.

I'm losing my freakin mind!  I'm out!  Thank you to those of you who actually care about Nat and arent just talking because you like the sound of your keyboard clicking!  M, I'll talk to you later... hold down the fort while I'm gone!  :D

Guys nothing personal to anyone, but really this chat is beginning to get a little sophomoric-  don't you think- we all have O-pinions- so lay off the the friends of NH

No, I'm NOT blaming you, I think you should use your HEAD.  Me being 19 has to do with the fact that I've been there, and I'm in the same positions (being out at bars, on trips, etc.) and it's not hard to use the buddy system.[/quote]


every situation is different... you have NEVER EVER been in that situation... you DONT know what happened.... MB adults im on your side...

If you guys dont lay off the "kids" you are going to lose them.

Freedom of speech.  This is a discussion board, correct?  I'm not gonna walk around what I say to protect 18 year olds who, in my opinion, are grown enough to handle other peoples opinions.  If you're not..well you probably shouldn't have been in Aruba.  IGNORE IT, if it's such a problem.

That wasn't my point.[/i]

Okey dokey A...I gotta go soon, but I'll keep it going for now...hope to see you tomorrow.

Thank you Juvenal.

Now Juvenal,
I think that that original post from that "Ashley" is going to be exactly how this thing plays out.  Whore-an, Katdish and Tupac have drug ties and the young victim is no longer on the island.   What do you think?

lol, I know, I get your point.

kelly, take this to a seperate forum, please.[/quote]

WELL SAID!!!
CAN YOU GIVE THEM DIRECTIONs>>>??

IS THERE A MOD ON NOW??  HELP!

Please stop this - enough!

WELL SAID!!!
CAN YOU GIVE THEM DIRECTIONs>>>??

IS THERE A MOD ON NOW??  HELP![/quote]

What am I doing wrong other than expressing my opinion?

Is that the latest scoop - they're thinking drug ties.???????  Be on but not really here!!!

Listen bkelly, give it a rest, you're acting like a total dick here, you say you're 19?  please stop acting like you know everything and criticizing these girls.  before you got there we had learned a lot from them and were trying to offer them a small amount of support in return.

so give it a rest or take your rantings somewhere else

Dash,

Check your PMs. I just sent you something.

VERY APPROPRIATE....thanks for the pictures of Natalee.  Fox is just now saying the thing about the lawyer see how things are getting distorted.  Maybe they are getting Tom Messerau since he is finished with Michael J's case.

We've got ourselves another troll, I see.  What happened?  Everything was good and peaceful, I leave to take my kid to the park, I come back and we have people, YET AGAIN, trying to chase away our fellow "junkies".

VERY APPROPRIATE....thanks for the pictures of Natalee.  Fox is just now saying the thing about the lawyer see how things are getting distorted.  Maybe they are getting Tom Messerau since he is finished with Michael J's case.

kelly, take this to a seperate forum, please.[/quote]

WELL SAID!!!
CAN YOU GIVE THEM DIRECTIONs>>>??

IS THERE A MOD ON NOW??  HELP!

there is a website www.nataleeholloway.net for another discussion board. not much goin on there except more blaming of the students and chaperones, which is ridiculous and uncalled for. these people are suffering enough guilt and "what could i have done different" from that trip. I just pray she is returned back here soon!

Dash and MBHS....

I have a very special place in my heart for Natalee...I think about her all the time....and hope and pray that she is okay....and I don't even know her...I can't imagine what ya'll are going through.....

Please know that you both are very special to this board also....when you are not here...you are in our thoughts...people post it...all the time...

Please do not EVER blame yourselves.....and don't listen to ignorance....

th pronlem is that youre expressing your opinion too many times and its really pushign everyone off the cliff....you are exactly the reason many poelpe dont like us americans becuase you push and push and push stop already cant you tell poeple got it already?stop it! why do you think the press was pushed away here? in aruba they are able to get pictures of everythign in investigation they are almost standing next to the cops here! but like the american press need to get get get so they push push push until the cops came and told eveyone to leave! please take this somewhere else! wehre here for information and comments that are simple and thoughts no blaming or PUSHING

DITTO!!!!!!

What am I doing wrong other than expressing my opinion?[/quote]




                  activating ignore and auto scroll mode now---

.

Ah, last post defending myself against you people who jump all over the slightest thing.

I've been here all along, I've seen what they say.  Aren't they supposed to not be disclosing information though?  That's what I heard on the news.  I'm not gonna scare them away, nor is anyone gonna scare me away :)

I had to walk away while the battle was going on.

PLEASE, is there a news update available?  Did I miss it.

Nancy Drew - you missed nothing.

Just on Fox (about 3:15PM Eastern):

Police still searching Juron's house.
Prosecutor and Police Commissioner (Jan van der Straaten) on scene.
Several bags of evidence, blue SUV and red Suzuki Sidekick removed.

I didn't go on the trip, but "Dash" did...I think she knows better than to listen to these morons, though. She's smart, too.

maybe the police in aruba need some pushing..

Just on Fox (about 3:15PM Eastern):

Police still searching Juron's house.
Prosecutor and Police Commissioner (Jan van der Straaten) on scene.
Several bags of evidence, blue SUV and red Suzuki Sidekick removed.

Are they still searching the house?

What am I doing wrong other than expressing my opinion?[/quote]

You're being cruel. You're so intent on defending your right to free speech (which actually doesn't necessarily apply in privately-owned forums, but that's a separate issue) or speaking your mind that you are hurting people's feelings for no reason.

And if you keep up the belligerence, the mods will think you are a troll and ban you.

fox news has posted speculation on date rape drug...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159601,00.html

Just on Fox (about 3:15PM Eastern):

Police still searching Juron's house.
Prosecutor and Police Commissioner (Jan van der Straaten) on scene.
Several bags of evidence, blue SUV and red Suzuki Sidekick removed.

No news... I'm headin out... don't worry, psycho didnt "scare me away" I just have to get ready... I'm going to talk to Bill O'Reilly tonight to hopefully clear up some of the misinformed broadcasts he's made.  I'm scared crapless of him, but at least I have a friend on there with me (otherwise I probably would be too scared to go! haha)  
Thank yall for helping give up to date info, especially Arubagirl and others from Aruba, yall are a God-send!!! Thanks so much!
bkelly, I'm not going to argue with you because the more I talk, the less you listen... but i will ask you to please be more aware of your words and their connotation.  We all just want Natalee to come home and be ok, I would hope you want the same.
I'll probably be on later tonight after Bill makes me cry, lol
ttyl!

GOD BLESS!

"Bags of evidence"....sounds like they may finally be onto something here!

We lost dear Dash over this little fiasco?

The Mods should ban those who can't take these battles to another thread or forum.

Nancy,

Doesn't seem like the smoking gun was in the house...and after 2 weeks I'm sure Katdish and Dutch bag have "Mr Cleaned" every square inch of that place.  At this point they should be checking the VDS garbage cause nothing of note is gonna be in that house.

GOOD Luck on O'Reilly!!

Good luck ---

Looking forward to hearing O'Reilly introduce you as Ms. ---

;)

If it were my kid accused of something like this I would just not answer the phone, I am sure they have already gotten tons of calls from locals and maybe even changed numbers by now.   I am sure the lawyers have told them to keep it quite, if their lawyers are worth anything anyway.

A...quick check the PM first! Before you go!

Good luck tonight and don't let him "twist" your words!  I'm sure you'll do great!

I am going to head out for a bit....I will see you all later...thanks for the info!

Try to be sweet  :lol:

Good luck Dash!!!!  We'll be here when you get back...I promise!!!  lol.   :lol:

Hey, I just got here.  You're going on O'Reilly tonight??  Wow!  Good luck and keep him in his place!  :D

what time and channel is bill o'riley on?

go back and read dash's last.  she had to leave.  she is ok, tough as nails and brave.  she will be back.  the last thing we need is censorship.  all input has its value.

I have to agree geraldosgirlfriend.  We could be surprised, but I doubt it.  

They've been there a long time.

GOOD LUCK FROM ALL OF US :0)

Dash--

Don't let him ask you questions and then talk over your answer!

Call him out! Stand up to him! Don't let him push you around!

GOD BLESS![/quote]

DASH-  please be careful...oreilly is only there to exploit you...if you already know u r going to cry  don't go!!!!!
I am Mickey Johns friend and I could have been on the world news days ago if I made 1 call to local press about him/this/etc!!!
TRUST ME IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!!
STAY HERE TO VENT!!!   THESE PEOPLE REALLY CARE A LOT MORE THAN OREILLY>>>

      HE WON"T EVEN GIVE U A TISSUE WHEN YOU CRY!!!!!!!___

Dash:

Be firm and don't let him twist what you say in any way!

I wish you the best and know your appearance will help find Natalee!

You're the best!

Yikes... now I guess I'll have to watch O'Liely's show.  In general, I'd rather slam my hand in a car door than do that...  :D

DASH-

 please be careful...oreilly is only there to exploit you...if you already know u r going to cry  don't go!!!!!
I am Mickey Johns friend and I could have been on the world news days ago if I made 1 call to local press about him/this/etc!!!

  BUT I WAS ALREADY ONCE EXPLOITED BY PRESS RE:A BAD DOCTOR...
TRUST ME IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!!

     STAY HERE TO VENT!!!  
 THESE PEOPLE REALLY CARE A LOT MORE THAN OREILLY>>>

      HE WON"T EVEN GIVE U A TISSUE WHEN YOU CRY!!!!!!!___

Greta's going to Aruba as we speak - broadcasting from there this evening  -

I did get a small chuckle from Shepard Smith saying "this is the Keystone Cops" ..... nothing really funny about it except he voiced what many of us think....

Hey - let's just TOTALLY ignore the posters who're getting us so riled up - it's not worth the effort -

They have their own views/opinions/ideas and nothing will change that - Dash and her friends and those of us who understand where they're coming from just need to IGNORE the rabblerousers (never tried to spell that before!)
It must be the teacher and parent in me trying to keep peace, AND sorry for such a rambling post.

DASH-  please be careful...oreilly is only there to exploit you...if you already know u r going to cry  don't go!!!!!
I am Mickey Johns friend and I could have been on the world news days ago if I made 1 call to local press about him/this/etc!!!
TRUST ME IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!!
STAY HERE TO VENT!!!   THESE PEOPLE REALLY CARE A LOT MORE THAN OREILLY>>>

      HE WON"T EVEN GIVE U A TISSUE WHEN YOU CRY!!!!!!!___[/quote]

AMEN :lol:

DASH-

 please be careful...oreilly is only there to exploit you...if you already know u r going to cry  don't go!!!!!
I am Mickey Johns friend and I could have been on the world news days ago if I made 1 call to local press about him/this/etc!!!

  BUT I WAS ALREADY ONCE EXPLOITED BY PRESS RE:A BAD DOCTOR...
TRUST ME IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!!

     STAY HERE TO VENT!!!  
 THESE PEOPLE REALLY CARE A LOT MORE THAN OREILLY>>>

      HE WON"T EVEN GIVE U A TISSUE WHEN YOU CRY!!!!!!!___ :!: