Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Here we go again for the evening and morning of June 16th, 2005

Can we get a definitive fix on Mr. Twitty's employment?  I recall him telling somebody his boss told him to take the time he needed to deal with Natalie.  Is he in the private security business?  Does he work for McWane, who provided the plane?  Mrs. Twitty said they worked with three people from an international firm that got them access to the HI Casino tapes chop chop and presumably led them the same night they arrived to Joran.  Note that the times we got tonight from --- and Mrs T were not the same as the timeline piece.   Twittys arrived earlier and plane left for homefix earlier.

not many po folks here:  

http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/incomeOverview.php?locIndex=12097

Boy! That was scary! Thought I was gonna get lost! LOL!

Information on McWane Inc

http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/factsheet.xhtml?&ID=47477&abforward=true

Wow, where did everyone go?  Everything has gotten all quiet in here.

but you made it!  :)

He works for a metals company and is head of operations.  That's not *security.*

"Beth Twitty and her husband, Jug, a manager for Phoenix Metals in Birmingham"
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118222305169320.xml&coll=2#continue


You welcome! :D

He is not in the security business.  According to a quote from a Birmingham newspaper - posted earlier tonight - he works for Phoenix Metals, I believe.  I don't remember the position, but I'm sure it's not the rank and file....sure he's management in some capacity.

You might check back - I think there was even a link on that one.  I'm too tired (after 3 very short nights due to SM!) to check for ya!

- - - --- Maybe it's that "M*a*s*h" thing -- you know, "Matt + Dash" - like Bennifer.  With Matt Damon squiring you around, who has time for the boyz on the block?  LOL

You *did good* tonight, sweetie!  Rave reviews.  Wish I could have witnessed it myself, but had to rely on hearsay.




****I tried to post this *back there* and got this:  

"This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies."


After being trampled by a runaway board, that 'bout put me over the top!

Goodnight...I am logging off and going to say a prayer that we hear news tomorrow.

Kerin

No, Red and I went to High School together and graduated from different universities. I was a North East snob until I finally got south in 90. Now I hate going back to the north.

Per the following article in the Birmingham News:
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118222305169320.xml&coll=2

"Beth Twitty and her husband, Jug, a manager for Phoenix Metals in Birmingham, have been here since the evening of May 30."

When the topic changes we are allowed a potty break.

Dash, just want to say hi from St Louis - we were watching you on tv tonight. Great job! Your friend was great also.

Seeker

can someone be more specific about finding posts?.....I mean, instead of going page to page, how to jump ahead?.....I tried going up to the URL and it basically just disappears when I try to change the number...

thx....

Potty break?  We aren't allowed potty breaks!!!!!!

oy

Night amiller!

Folks, it has been hard to persevere night after night.  We all rose from the ranks, from all parts of the country and other countries.

We do need some sleep.  They raided Joran's home today and stripped it of evidence.  They revealed that they had placed GPS on all these guys' cars.

Justice will be served.  The Scared Monkeys (I guess that's what we are) won't hear of less.

That --- and her bud got a Fox News interview just shows you the power of the pen and the message that we got out there by all showing up, posting, and QUESTIONING.

I'm headed for bed but feel there will be real news soon.  In my last post for the night (give me a minute to post it) I'm going to repost the visionary dream that I personally experienced, because these don't really happen to me that much (maybe one every three years, and when God's hand is in it, I sit  back while He works and provides).

Haha! Sounds good  to me!  Then again... maybe being likened to Beniffer isnt such a good thing.... hmmmm
haha

Thanks so much!

Note that somebody posted earlier that he was security for President Bush.  I doubted that.  That is why I asked and I am impressed ho fast you found it.  I searched too but am not that patient or meticulous.  Anymore on whther Natalee and Joran were in contact before the trip or how they met since we now have first hand information that he was around the students for a few days and they recognized him.  You see where this is leading?   :roll:

Grows onya don't it? LOL!

To the two Monkeys who asked this about 10 pages ago:

The "blown margins" (like now, unless we're already on the next page, which we probably are) happen when someone posts an oversize image (like the MonkeyJunkeys logo) or an extra-long URL -- it can't be broken up, so it has to extend the width of the page.

Sometimes the forum software corrects afterwards and the next posts are normal width, but sometimes the forums have to make the entire page that extra-width, which is what this one does.

Just wanted to answer that question y'all asked!

Oh that's CLASSIC.......MASH!!!  LOL   :P

No, I graduated FDU in NJ , History & Business Major
Tom, i have totally forgot.  :shock:

So Tom...a former Yankee huh? :)

Changing the post number should work (unless the thread has only one page, in which case the URL won't show a post number).  For example, the URL for the last topic is:  http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=70&start=1840

I believe the t=70 means you're looking at thread 70, and the start=1840 means that's the post in the thread that appears at the top of the screen.  If you highlight only 1840 and replace it with, say, 400, you'll be on page 20 (there are 20 posts per page).

According to Dragonfly we're not allowed to go to bed or to the potty. A little obsessed, are we, 'fly? :wink:

Night D. A.

Thanks.  I was beginning to think my computer was going nuts (or maybe I'm just going nuts?)

So 2 Northerners. Tom is in GA and you are still in NJ, Red?

Natalee met Joran at the Holiday Inn two days before the group's departure.  No emails or previous contact, according to her friends.

As to the first part of your post, there is some back-handed political stuff being posted all around and I hope it can be avoided at all costs.  That was ONE of them.

Just a little.  But I too have decided I need to sleep.  I'm off to bed at 12:30.

Dash...

Out here in Calif...just had a chance to see you on OReally.  Must say you did a FANTASTIC job.  I know you have heard it earlier...but wanted to give you my two cents as well.  Thanks for being as strong as you were.  You give all of us hope!

Hang in there and God bless.  Hopefully Nat comes home soon.

-Woody

How bout that? Nice to be amonst such intelligents.

I am sleep deprived by now but this has been pleasant.  see you all tomorrow.   8)

They revealed they had placed GPS on whose cars? Where/when was this revealed?

Thank you so much!!! Keep praying for Nat!  I have a really strong feeling that she can and will be alright and come home to us... I just am very impatient and am sick of waiting! haha

My last post for the night, so Good Night in advance.

I first posted this last Saturday night (the night of 6-11-05).  Again, I'm not a bizarro, it happened so I documented it here in the thread:

"I did have a dream about Natalee Halloway last night, so bizarre. I dreamed that she was in a room and a black-and-white TV was showing some show and that there was blue carpet rug hung up on the wall. Since I’m Christian, this would go along the lines of Biblical dreams. Again, I don’t do that Ouiji board stuff or anything like that, I don’t go for that stuff. "

testing

I shall follow you at 12:30.

My normal bedtime is hours earlier, but finding this site and learning from all of you has literally consumed me (and my life!) the last few days.

I plan on sticking around long after Natalee is found....and she will be.

???????   :shock:  Sat Whut?LOL!

Iquitos:  McWane is a very philanthropic company in Birmingham, and they have obviously been very generous w/ the use of their plane.  Don't know if Phoenix Metals does business w/ McWane, but do know that the president of McWane has a child at MBHS.  Does that help any?

You got the catheter too?

DF...You are actually going to sleep tonight?

Thank you fer that! ????? :shock:  Say whut?

Just don't go making any movies named "Gigli" and you'll be all right!

Nopey nope - stick with "Kudzu"!!! :wink:

hahaha!  Nice!

I am very impressed with how that community has pulled together for the sake of the Holloway family.

I just wish the press would give the poor kids a chance to go to the signing wall without being bothered.

Venezuela???

You heard the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee.

The Yankees went home. I sure as hell stayed.

lol...my neck hurts so bad from never leaving this computer.  Seriously.  Excedrin sitting right here in front of me.  Company I had earlier went to get it for me!!!  I gotta get a grip!!!   :lol:

Dash,

I too feel that she is still alive.  Can't explain why or how and it goes against all good logic.  But something keeps me here and draws me to this whole thing day after day.  Something deep inside says that somehow...someway we will find the truth.

I know the odds and know that realistically it's probably not the case...but something says keep fighting!

This whole drama that is unfolding is getting weirder each day....with all the things we keep seeing happening...the stories we hear from the MSM...but those of us on the Post really know whats taking place.  

All in all... Glad to be here with all of you.

-w

Tom/Red  I'm seeing some tech problems showing up here.  Know what I mean?

 :D  :D  :D

I'm so glad to know this:  "do know that the president of McWane has a child at MBHS" because I *hoped* against hope that that was the case.

Otherwise, I would've suspected the agenda, considering that three top execs of the company were convicted on criminal charges last Friday and could be sentenced to prison in October.  I was praying this wasn't just a PR move.

Yes, Kerin...in 12 minutes...wait...I can't let you beat me!!!  I'll be on all night!   :shock:

well I am going to take my leave for a while  , Got to be in the gym at 6 am, been late every day this week and the guy who works out with me is getting concerned.

T

See ya in the am and don't make too much of a mess

Nite Tom!!!  I hope you know how much you all are appreciated.

Goodnight, Tom!  I've got to wake up in about 4 hours, but now I can't get to sleep!  LOL

Well I promise I won't be online all night DF. Much too tired and the power outage was the final straw. I may just lurk for awhile....  :shock:

Thinkin it but not sayin it!

'night Tom

Tom - you better sleep fast!

Night Tom!
God Bless!!!

Thanks again!

I hope everyone doesn't bail out tonight all at once! I'm up for going on another hour or so because it has really been a BIG day.

Now that things have slowed down, anyone care to post more ideas about what happened? We have been bouncing all over the map with events today.. anyone want to try tying things together now after the day's returns are in?

Good night Tom.  Check you PM please.

Yes, and can you do it in 7 minutes, please???  I've been off more than on today, but don't feel like too much changed.  I wonder how that helicopter did tonight...

DA -- sent you a private message r.e. your dream. Not sure it went through though.

Dash, do you know what you want to major in? Because I am thinking you may have a bright future in broadcast journalism.  :D

sb...I will stay awhile

I've missed the gym Since Saturday.  Today injured myself so probably can't go now for days. :x   night!

Haha!  I'm actually going to double major in Psychology and Communications! (I did a lot of broadcasting in highschool... I practically ran our film dept. and do use the equipment, I had to work on the school news... director this past year! Whoo hoo!)  
Thanks for the compliment!

well you appear to be a very confident young woman. do you have a boyfriend?

Well, I think they are operating down there based on Depak's statements and cell phone/computer records.  I don't know if they believe she is alive or dead so I won't speculate on that.  The helicopter with night time abilities could find either graves or probably heat from a live person someplace they wouldn't expect them to be.  But I do believe they now have some concrete information to go on based on the story they are getting from brothers and technology.  I still believe that the brothers have to know more than they are saying, but LE taking Joran's family's vehicles makes me believe that they think Joran could have transported her (alive or dead) in one of those vehicles instead of with the brothers.

Nope... I have a lot of guy friends who are practically big brothers! haha

I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!   :x

Oh, I see.  McWane is actually supportive of so many people across so many lines.  From their publicity shy history, they'd probably rather their name not be mentioned so much.  They've just always provided great support in town behind the scenes and never wanting or asking for recognition.

Dash may have mentioned this, but if you were to land here tomorrow and drive through town, your heart would truly break at all of the yellow ribbons people have placed on their mailboxes, trees, storefronts, etc.  Yes, Kerin, this community has really pulled together for this.  Makes me realize how lucky I am.

DF...very impressive analysis for someone with only power naps for a week.  :)

 BUSTED :oops:

Hooray for Psychology majors!

OK good. So I could still set you up with my son. LOL

Thank you Kerin.  For that, I will let you win tonight and I am off to bed!!!!  Post away.  I'll catch up tomorrow.

Night DF...it won't be the same without you.  :(

KKM:  Please check you PM's.

For a quick take, I'll just say that at one point this afternoon I was about ready to convince myself that any minute they were gonna rescue Natalee from some hidden basement under Joran's home. I am getting just like all the MB folks who feel this unexplainable feeling that NATALEE IS THERE someplace and will be rescued. I really don't know why but I sense it. This thing is too bizarre to have many other explanations.

This Joran guy is just TOO COOL for words if he could kill someone, dispose of a body, and show up for school the next day. I just don't think there is any 17 year old guy that could do this without a SINGLE CRACK of some kind.

He, or someone, has got her hidden away somewhere. I am not convinced that she's gone.

Nite to you too!!!  You guys don't stay up too late.  I may be wrong, but I have a feeling this is going to blow wide open in the next couple of days and we won't be able to go to sleep.

Well said. I've never seen anything like it here.

haha! Sounds good!

Anybody ever eat a melted choclate ice cream sandwich without making a complete mess?

NEITHER HAVE I!  :x

This Joran guy is just TOO COOL for words if he could kill someone, dispose of a body, and show up for school the next day. I just don't think there is any 17 year old guy that could do this without a SINGLE CRACK of some kind.

May sound like a strange comment but I would love to know what he made on his finals.

A BREAKTHROUGH, A BREAKTHROUGH - for us - !

Fox has just reported this:

The FBI are now looking at the possibility that Natalee Hollaway was slipped a Date Rape Drug.

Folks, take a moment to see the power of good folks posting here, supporting a gal who had a good reputation (Nat), and thanks to Natalee's friends that posted here plus today challenged the media!!!

The world wanted to believe the worst about Natalee Hollaway, but she's one of those kids that didn't act like they assumed, and now hopefully there is a new understanding of Natalee.

Special thanks to Natalee's friends -those that post here and ALSO those who just come in and read here.

OK, now for real, this is good night from me - corporate America does take its toll.  To sleep, perchance to dream.   Please pray for Natalee, quick prayers, lots of 'em.

I will send you his myspace page later so you can check him out.  :) Like you he is a very devout Christian and an exceptional young man. (if I do say so myself)
On another note...didn't Mountain Brook have a cross country team (boys or girls) that ran at Nike Team Nationals in Portland, OR this year? (sorry...you may not like running...only football)  :)

 :D  :D  :D

Thanks to the power outage I have LOTS of melted ice cream TT!

Dash, after your performance tonight I have a feeling that it won't just be reporters ringing your phone off the hook  :D  LOL!

A girl with that much Southern charm and class better not settle for some Yankee cheesehead!!!! Hold out!!!! There's plenty of Central Alabama guys out there for the taking for you!

Since I'm old enough to be your daddy I can get away with saying that!

Seriously, you came across very well. And you are holding up terrifically. I have no idea where all of you are getting the strength from.

Night Dallas

Yeah but Dash.....watch out fer them REDNECKS!   :o lol!

I dont know... Did we win?  Eveything we did this year we came in 1st or 2nd, so if we won, then yes. haha

its hard to believe that these "boys" drank all night, then left the bar at 1 or 1:30 am, all admitted to going to the Lighthouse, and then after some time, they all left...

Kalpoes went home to the computer....

Joran says he was dropped off....

in any case, its get light about 4 or 5 am, and there always are early moring delivery people around, so they had to do their dirty work rather fast...

don't think there was time for a boat ride....

shark den at the end of the island I guess is a possibility....

could they have brought the girl back to the house, kept her there, even expired, and then had help from daddy in getting rid of the body....


We have to get more pressure on the brothers Grimm.......they hold the clues.....they know what happened....IMO

And the bad thing about marrying a cheesehead is that darn pre-nup making you promise you will relinquish your half of the marital interest in the Lambeau Field stock if you split.

well, I am finally back....I posted earlier that my cable kept going out due to a thunderstorm...and said if I miss Dash's interview I would be very mad since I only got the tail end of it earlier.......not 5 minutes after posting that my lights went out...UGGHHHH...so I missed the interview yet again...I sat there, candles lit.....for about 30 minutes knowing that the program was over (when the lights went out, they were just coming back from commercial break and were fixing to begin the interview).  

soooooooo....I gathered all my candles (3 of them)..grabbed a solar light that I had outside (which gives off no real light) and cleaned my bathroom....ha ha ha ha...very interesting experience...cleaning a bathroom with very very dull light.  OH WELL..at least I finally got something done around this house...I have been consumed with this forum for the last week or so...so, the cleaning has been put on the back burner.....lol

I guess Horan could have come and gone as he wished and brought anyone in or out since he has a separate apartment from the house.

Has anyone heard if there are really and truly 3 different stories, or are there only 2???  It seems like the Grimm brothers are both saying the same thing; is that what you're hearing?

Yes, Dallas, it's about time they check into that whole date rape drug thing...

This time it's for real...good night!

LOL. No team from the south did very well. It was about 30 degrees when they ran which is not the best for southerners! It was a race for the top 20 boys and top 20 girls teams from across the nation.

I've asked that question  myself.  The only one I've heard say the bros stories are the same is one of them's lawyer.  What does he know?

cant get my post on here

oh that one worked i posted in a new thread but coulnt get it to post here

I did hear one of the reporters today saw that their story is the same...so exact that it's like it is coming out of one head.  :?

Then we proabably werent in it! haha!

Well folks my eyes are officially gone. Good job by all. (almost all, except for the troll T & I flamed on the comment side)

Big gold star to Dash tonight. Its been a long time since I have seen the guests talk more in an O'Reilly interview than Bill.

Good night all ...

kerinTx- seems like last week Mrs. VDS-H said to Dan Abrams that Joran did well on his finals.

Dash- you did a great job tonight!  Natalee is blessed to have friends like you.

:::kisses to Red::: Goodnight!!

Goodnight RED...sweet dreams! :D

I have to thnk, if they are the same, they tell the truth.

Thanks Hardin. I am a teacher and I would think that any kid with a conscience at all...(which he may not have)...if he did anything at ALL to Natalee, he would have been so nervous that he would not have been able to do well on finals.

Hey, I resemble that remark!!  :D

Forget "Mash," think "Crash" ("Y'all" actually isn't my real first name)  :lol:

Let me just add, a prayer for Natalee and her family. God Bless.

As far as the Date Rape Drug thing goes, I think the VAST majority of people have long since accepted that as a given.

BTW virtually ALL eyewitness accounts agree that Natalee was not sloshed to the gills when she left CC's that night. There are those who are saying she was starting to wind down a bit, but not "out of it" at all.

THE DRUG WAS JUST STARTING TO TAKE EFFECT. Let the impact of that statement roll around a little.

By the time they were a couple of miles down the road she was slowing down more and more. At the lighthouse she finally starts going out. Joran begins the proceedings, maybe with a little initial resistance, but not for long. They might have taken off back down the road to the beach north of the Marriott and by then she is unresistant. He does whatever he wants. She begins to wake up and absorb what happened.  Then...?

run off into the night?
confront Joran?
get loaded back into the car and hauled to Joran's private dungeon?
get abandoned?
get picked up by someone else?

Or is that when Joran calls the boat guys to come make the pickup...

I REALLY REALLY want Natalee to be alive. I want some outcome of this that brings joy to Dash and Nat's family and all of us. You don't know how bad I want that.

Before you go Red, do you watch all the topics at the same time? Or what?  How do you keep up w' all this?

("Y'all" actually isn't my real first name)


YEAH RIGHT!!! :D  :D  :D

'Night all.  I'm going to try to get a few hours of sleep before I have to get up.  Again, Dash, you were wonderful.  Each day is one day closer to finding Natalee.

Good Night Matt...take care

Thanks! Keep praying!

Night Night!
God Bless!

lee wrote:
its hard to believe that these "boys" drank all night, then left the bar at 1 or 1:30 am, all admitted to going to the Lighthouse, and then after some time, they all left...

Kalpoes went home to the computer....

Joran says he was dropped off....

in any case, its get light about 4 or 5 am, and there always are early moring delivery people around, so they had to do their dirty work rather fast...

don't think there was time for a boat ride....

shark den at the end of the island I guess is a possibility....

could they have brought the girl back to the house, kept her there, even expired, and then had help from daddy in getting rid of the body....  


shark den shark den.....

take a look at this...
I posted this yesterday

"my heart is in my throat

it's not because of 'His" physcic predictions

it's because of the first thing I saw on his sight..

there has been alot...ALOT of people saying they have seen visions of
a cave on the scared monkeys site..

even myself I have never Never been to aruba and did not know the first thing about it.. I had no idea there were even caves there, the first pic he has on his site is of a 'tunnel' or 'cave' why has this freaked me out soo much.. I have had a 'preminition' or whatever you would like to call it about the 'cave' and her...

now here comes the scariest part..
I haven't seen my nephew in about a week (8yr old) the headline news special was on tonight and nephew was begging me to turn it to play video games with him.. they showed Natalee's picture just at that moment
I'm like can you help me find her.? He said she's in a cave.. without coaxing or prior knowledge of whats going on.. I'm like what did you just say..? she's in a cave.. she tried to get out but its blocked she hurt her hand.. and then the kid part took over and said it's like a bears den he said I saved her I beat up the bear..

I am starting to truly beleive she is alive
someone is holding her

I read kims post
Blonde, bombshell, missing after partying into the wee hours of the morning. Video showing her at bar, no video at hotel. Three native young men, not boys hanging out with her and last seen with her. Alibi that they were able to drive her from bar to beach to hotel from 1:30 am to 2am. Their stories are a bit out there. If they did not kill her then I think they sold her. There is a lot of that going on. Something bad has happened to her else she would have surfased by now, she lives too spoiled of a life with her family to stay away intentially or of sound mind. I am curious as to why they would drive out to the beach with a girl like that for that short amount of time?

I think it might be right on.
the more I found out about the 3 kids drugs and all
the more I think this might be a probable outcome

attn: arubagirl or resident of aruba
is there anyplace club/house
named 'the cave' or the 'den'
or is there a known 'crack den' (house)
drug hangout
on the island
they did such an extensive search of the island
the only way they didn't find anything in such a 'small' place is that the
target is either moving or hidden
probably in plain site
and probably very close to the hotel."

I don't know.  Have you seen Brett ("Mississippi") Favre's record in games below 34 degrees??  I believe it's 39-2.

Dallas, all........does the MSM really think they have a scoop about the Date Rape drug?......

geesh.....every blog I've been too has mentioned this idea from day one.....

the MSM is just so behind everything.....

Night Matt!

sb...that scenario is making the most sense. all the rest of these wild stories they are coming up with (the brothers and VDS) would just take way too much time to pull off plus let's remember after all that we ARE just talking about TEEN BOYS who are not some kind of masterminds at planning and execution. In the end I think we will find the simplest story is the one that is true. The only reason we are now hearing wild stories is because the longer they sit in jail, the more the mind "makes things up". Remember, story number ONE was very simple. A lie, but simple. Then time in jail and these crazy stories are coming up.

My opinion...

Try to, but if we miss something or someone does something on the evil  :evil: side someone usually contatcs us. I thinks that why eyes have flames coming out of them.

How do I keep up with it? The sick part is that I am usually doing compter work and business stuff at the same time. I think its an illness, or a cry for help.  :)  - good night

Yes...but I should have given further details. Cross country race in a horse park...frozen ground...30 degrees...and hay bales to jump over and then camelback hills to run up and down....for 3 miles.  :)

Yeah, I think it's very likely she was given a drug.  There was a message posted by a supposed friend of the brothers that was posted on the Riehl blog where she says the brothers told her (before they were arrested) that Natalee fell asleep on the way to the light house.  That would certainly be consistent with a date rape drug.  Of course, there's no way of knowing if she's legit or if the brothers were telling her the truth.

we may not have a foolproof justice system here in the US but at least we would have given these guys a lie detector by now which could have sorted out "fact from fantasy"

Okay, but did they have 275 pound linebackers running after them, trying to knock them down??  :D

Uhhhh...I should hope NOT! My baby is 6 ft 3 and only 120 lbs!!!!!!!!!

Haha! That would scare the poopoo outta me! haha

Right, Kerin, usable in court or not, you can find some truths.

my gut tells me one of 2 things happened....

I have no doubt that she was given the date drug.....

1.  She either passed out and they thought she was dead...or she died and they threw her body into the ocean...never to be found....

OR

2.  She passed out and they either transported her off the island or have her held up somewhere as a payoff of some sort.

Reasoning??  suspicious white van near the caves...Deepak saying he thought she would turn up at a crack house...It being said that Joran is a drug dealer....

:o She said poo poo!  :o  :D

Never has the saying "the truth shall set you free" applied more.

Yep! You got that right!

I posted this else where on the site
but was reading a top posting on here and figured it fit

at one piont they said that
natalee didn't want to get out of the car

I'm going on the theory that there is 90% truth to every lie

she didn't want to get out of the car because they didn't take her to her hotel..

that's where she was told she would be taken when they left carlos and charlies

so the guard did say that the suriname brothers were driving
and they 'dropped off' Natalee close to the Marriot..
now the suriname brother didn't know who the guard was when in jail
so how far could joran and natalee have gone on foot..?

or did they come back and pick them up after 'something happened'
.............
where does the going to the beach fit in..?
is this a made up story..?
then they said the lighthouse
did they go there after..? doesn't make sense that they would go there that late..
joran is big at 17yr did he intimadate his friends..to lie..?
but the brothers would have banned together to fight him if it came to it
she wouldn't have willingly taken something jaron gave her like a drug
he may have slipped it in her drink at c & c's
so that means he pre meditated to rape her..?

thats why he offered to drive her back..?

he may have felt the strain of her leaving on her last day
and in desparation did something..?
they(brothers) said they exchanged email addresses (jaron and natalee)

damn I'm looking at my own post and thinking the problem here is
that if you were going to rape someone you would want as less people as possible as witnesses..
so..
1. left carlos & charlies
2. brothers were driving
3. went to lighthouse (in beginning it was 'beach')
4. Natalee falls asleep (date rape drug?)
5. on the way back guard says brothers dropped off Natalee and Joran
   (I don't think they dropped anyone off at their house first)
5. she says she didn't want to get out of the car.
  (probably because she's not at her hotel yet)
6.
someone pick this up........

I just remembered they said they didn't get out of the car at the lighthouse is this right..?
so.....
was joran forcing himself on her in the backseat..?
did the brothers kick him out of the car..?

7.

night Red...sweet dreams....

what i think may have happened is this,
joran and satish were at bar drinking heavily and danced with natalee slipped something in a drink they bought her and then took her against her will in the car to the lighthouse ,.. then the something bad happened. they panicked and called for big brother deepak on cell or text message to come help them out of this mess they created.  i tend to believe that big brother probably woulnt hang with little brother but would help in a desperate situation.
i pray for natalees safe return and feel so bad for all that the family and friends have had to endure the past 2 weeks

This kid HORAN has more occupations than anyone I have ever seen:
Student
Pimp
Drug Dealer
Porn Star
Porn Producer
Porn Distributor
Professional Club Go-er
..........

I have some other names...but I think I will refrain from using such language  :twisted:  :evil:

pretty wild life for someone of 17

The bros will stick tgthr if they can. The only way their stories can be the same is if its pretty close to the truth.  Maybe not the whole truth.  If there stories differ, they lie and that means they were all involved in a crime together.  I can't see the bros taking her without Urine.  He was a culprit.

Surprise!!!  I heard deputies talking on my scanner about a tornado, so I'm up again to watch the weather until it passes.

Hes a real piece of work, huh?

hey guys... I'm gettin sleepy, so I think I'm gonna head out.
Night Night!
God Bless!

Very good thought there.  I always thought it was odd they said she didn't want to get out of the car since it seems like a bit of an odd thing to make up.  Of course, it makes perfect sense if they want her to get out at a place other than her hotel.  

As for the drug, I don't think there's much question that if she ingested one that it wasn't intentional on her part.

Is Dash still around or did she go to bed?  Didn't see the interview, not even sure if it was on here in Canada but from what i've read here, i know she did a helluva job considering the circumstances!  Bravo girl, and god bless....
WCG

I also agree about Horan. I would still like to know something about the Kalpoes and their past. And where exactly is their family and why haven't they been vocal in defending them?? But in the end, I would like to see all 3 charged even if the brothers were only accessories.

OK...well my fingers cannot type another word. I am going to bed. Good night everyone and please pray for the safe return of Natalee.

Dragon,

The weather here in south Mississippi was so bad earlier....the wind was blowing very hard and there was constant thunder and lightening...my lights even went out for over an hour...it was pretty bad...

YOU STAY SAFE!!!

God Bless you, Alana!  And we'll all be praying hard for NAt.  Thanks for being here for us.  Night, night!

Good night, TV Star!!  Have a good night's sleep.  Maybe we'll get some good news tomorrow!

Good Night our Super Star!!  Sweet Dreams...We are VERY PROUD of you!!

Good Night Kerin....sweet dreams

returnThey will all be charged and convicted.  I just hope for kidnapping.  Night Kerin

Dash, are you really out? If not, you have the best night you can have and remember that the Lord is watching out for you guys. We're all praying for ya!

Hope tomorrow brings something good for us all!



I have something I want to post but I want to wait until Alana is gone. Any way to check and see if she is out?

since they said that she wouldn't get out of the car...maybe...the reason she wouldn't get out of the car was because she was passed out or dead????  

OR, maybe Joran tried something on her but she refused him and they tried to throw her out...but she wouldn't go....

Or maybe that was the beginning of her escalating resistance.  She didn't want what they did and stayed put.  The got pissed.

I'm winding dowwwn guys.  I'm a working man, so sleep is helpful once in a while.

Well, sorry about that.  Lost power for a few minutes.  Seems as if the wall cloud deputies were seeing has broken up some.  70mph winds but no tornadoes.  I can go back to bed.  See you all tomorrow!!!!!!

sb...I just sent you a private message..but disregard it...you can post now...all is clear

good night Mike and Dragon....sweet dreams to you both!

You too!  I'm still here but will slip outa here pretty soon.  God Bless Natalee,"everybody's daughter"!

oops...sorry..thought you were leaving then  :?

I'm barely here, reading more than writin'.  Just hate to miss a minute.  I'm a Monkey Junkie.  LOL!

What part of Missipi?

i am too!!  ha ha.....and I read alot more than I post...and don't want to leave for fear of missing something.... :shock:

I live on the coast...near Biloxi

I been there!  LOL!

A Fatal, Unknowing Dose

With GHB, Line Between a High and Death is Narrow

By Rebecca Raphael

March 2 —Fifteen-year-old Samantha Reid was just hanging out with friends at a party when she asked for a Mountain Dew. What she got was a dose of a lethal substance, slipped into her soda, leaving her comatose — and by morning, dead.

Reid’s tragic death on January 17, 1999 has heightened awareness of a drug called Gamma Hydroxybutyrate (GHB) and recently led to a federal decision making it an illegal substance. Now, as the trial of the four men involved is underway, questions remain about the potentially lethal drug and how dangerously easy it may be to target unsuspecting victims. The ease with which GHB can be bought on the Internet and the lack of awareness about its potentially fatal consequences make its illicit use a particularly ruthless phenomenon.
“It’s the sneakiest drug on Earth,” says Trinka Porrata, a former narcotics cop in the Los Angeles Police Department and a GHB expert.

stl...that is exactly what I think happened.....Natalee was so petite....I just don't think her body could have taken that drug... :cry:

good night all
love all your posts
incredible insights
I think the focus will be on the brothers tomorrow
I could be wrong unless they have found something at joran's house
as always hoping for the best.

I'll leave you with this..

a tool for would be investigators

I'm trying to figure out a word play on this

joran van der sloot

( took a van to sloop?? boat slip?)


Dompig

dominant 'pig' (police official)


Aruba government spokesman Rueben Trappenberg
(human trafficker)

David Kock, who represents 18-year-old Satish Kalpoe
(rape?)

hotel gaurd 'Mickey' John, 30
nicknamed mickey also another name for date rape drug
not to do with him though just a clue

the Holloways family's spokeswoman Carla Caccavale
(vailed in a cave)

all these are just clues the names to each person doesn't mean it's their fault they came togther to fit into the puzzle

cool....were you at the casinos?

Good night Michael....stay safe..sweet dreams!

Even if the worst results, by all this with the emmence attention she has attracted from the world, Natalee may be a hero by bringing these drugs to light for the dangers that they are.  Thereby perhaps saving the lives of untold others who without Natalee, would continue to stay in the dangerous dark.

Lethal Cocktail:
The Tragedy and the Aftermath of GHB

http://www.jamesmoore.org/dr.htm

Lots of stories about GHB on the URL above.

If Natalee was slipped GHB by these 3 boys, she may have vomited and she may have choked/sufficated on her own vomit.

The 3 main date rape drugs...

GHB can cause these problems:

relaxation
drowsiness
dizziness
nausea
problems seeing
unconsciousness (black out)
seizures
can't remember what happened while drugged
problems breathing
tremors
sweating
vomiting
slow heart rate
dream-like feeling
coma
death


Rohypnol can cause these problems:

can't remember what happened while drugged
lower blood pressure
sleepiness
muscle relaxation or loss of muscle control
drunk feeling
nausea
problems talking
difficulty with motor movements
loss of consciousness
confusion
problems seeing
dizziness
confusion
stomach problems


Ketamine can cause these problems:

hallucinations
lost sense of time and identity
distorted perceptions of sight and sound
feeling out of control
impaired motor function
problems breathing
convulsions
vomiting
out of body experiences
memory problems
dream-like feeling
numbness
loss of coordination
aggressive or violent behavior
slurred speech

Night Michael!  

Yeah I've been to the casinos, but only acouple of times.  You go there all the time, huh?

I agree...and I also think that she, no matter what the outcome, has opened the eyes of Arubians to what is lacking in their investigation techniques....I think that this will make them get the training that is needed in these types of situations.  Actually, I feel that they are getting that training now!!

Natalee will be forever remembered!!

Maybe they'll cleanup the drugs! Ya think?  Nat's moms on FOX again.

wow stl...great info!!  thanks for sharing

Actually, Mike, I very seldom go to the casinos....I am not much of a gambler....When I do go...which is maybe 2 times a year...I only bring $20 cause I know I will lose it all...ha ha.

Some of it can be made at home...


What do the drugs look like?
GHB has a few forms: a liquid with no odor or color, white powder, and pill.
Rohypnol is a pill and dissolves in liquids. New pills turn blue when added to liquids. However, the old pills, with no color, are still available.
Ketamine is a white powder.
What effects do these drugs have on the body?
The drugs can affect you quickly. The length of time that the effects last varies. It depends on how much of the drug is taken and if the drug is mixed with other substances, like alcohol. Alcohol can worsen the drug's effects and can cause more health problems. Also, one drug — GHB — can be made by people in their homes, so you don't know what's in it.


Maybe they were looking for the ingredients in Joran's home today. Maybe Mom & Pop did't know what to look for. Plus the home brewed GHB residue might be some where in their home.

TTown, great thought.  The concern i have is that here in Canada, well at least here on the West Coast, i've heard little of this story in the news!  It's in the middle/back of the newspapers and not obviously seen on our local news.  I heard about his story from a US friend of mine and looked into it and found myself glued to it.  I've asked friends and family and none of them have heard of NH!  I wish this story which regardless of the outcome was even more widespread in the news!  People everywhere need to know what's going on............

Again, Nataleees mom is amazing.  Oh, how I hate to think we may have lost a daughter of hers.

I agree WCG!!

Well, perhaps you will spread the word.  There's alot to be learned from this tragity.  Not just the wake-up call to kids, but the character of the central characters, including that of our own sweet Dash.

waitingtoknow, I found where the online members list was. I see she's gone.

I feel like I gotta get this off my chest but I did not want to say any of this where Dash could read it because it might be upsetting.

If you have seen any photos of that lighthouse beach, or watched the videos on one of the websites, you'll get a better picture of this. Imagine that beach at about 2:00 in the morning. Dark, desolate. spooky with the wind howling. Think about being in a car with 3 virtual strangers and being half-conscious. Imagine if she has any awareness at all left about what is about to be done to her.

The absolute terror that poor girl must have felt would be beyond all conception. My skin crawls thinking about it and I am a middle-aged man.

Then compound it by the possible drive back to someplace down the beach and what appears to be the point where she gets taken out of the car and raped, or she gets taken to Joran's secret dungeon and is imprisoned.

And then the other possibilities mentioned here about being stashed in some cave. Think about it. Being put in a cave in pitch darkness somewhere.

And there is one last horror.. people are talking about sharks. What if this girl is alive and coming back to consciousness and they only think she is dead. Or if she is just comatose and had a chance to survive. And she gets tossed in the shark den.

I am thinking about all this and I can't help but have tears come to my eyes about the unimaginable horrors of that place. No one has concocted any hollywood movie that would be as terrifying as that place had to be for Natalee. Because this is no movie... it is REAL LIFE.

All those bright lights and fun times everyone always talks about... let's be honest guys, away from all that Aruba is a place of HORRORS beyond our usual experience.

Whatever Natalee faced that night is pretty much beyond our conception and probably none of us have ever faced anything close to it.

Beyond all that is the fact that she, if she is alive, has STILL been going through it there..or someplace else... along with who-knows-what other horrors, for the last 16 or so days. While we have been sitting in comfortable homes typing away on our computers.

If somehow by some miracle she is found alive... what will it have done to her? And how can she ever hope to put it behind her?

I think all of these facts we recognize but don't want to admit. This is why this whole thing hits us all so hard. This is about as bad a situation as anything I can remember for any one individual to have to go through, let alone for a 18 year old girl who ain't exactly used to this kind of stuff.

All we can do is pray for this poor girl and that family, and all those kids and friends and chaperones. Let's do all we can to be supportive of them.

I find her strength and faith amazing.....and, I hope that in the future, she becomes a spokesperson to prevent this from happening again...whether it be from the date drug, murder, ect.

Now, on that note...I am going to go get some sleep...Ya'll have a wonderful night/day....I will see you tomorrow

Good Night...and Sweet Dreams to all!! :!:

By central charadters, I mean of course the good guys like Natalee, her Momand Dad and all her supportive friends and neighbors. (And lessons to be learned from the bad guys too)>

If you have time go here and read the case reports of GHB...

http://www.jamesmoore.org/dr.htm

It is pretty sad... an overdose of it can kill you quickly. Joran and brothers may have not know they were OD-ing her on it if they gave it to her. They are still 100% to blame if they did give to her (that "something bad happened" statement sticks in my mind), but they might not have known how to use it so that it would not kill her or she may have been hyper sensitive to a small dose of GHB.

How can you see who's on line?  I've been wondering.

Go to the front page of the site and everyone's who's online is listed at the bottom.....

TTown, sorry, it's not the front page but the index of the forums...

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/index.php

As I posted my goodnight post...I saw sb's post...and have to comment...

I am sure that she has gone through hell on earth...If she is alive...I just know by hearing her mother that she will get through it all....If she has an ounce of the faith that her mother has...she will prevail!!  There are so many people who love her...some that don't even know her..like us...and will do anything to help her get through this.

I would much rather her be alive...no matter what the circumstances...God can bring you through anything!!

I agree.  She seems the type to become another John wahts his name (Americas Most Wanted)

Gooh nght wtk, sweet dreams.  Pray hard!

Rohypnol

 

It is a potent tranquilizer which produces a sedative effect, amnesia, muscle relaxation, and slowing of psychomotor response. The pill is distributed in 0.5,1.0 to 2.0 milligram form (Restrictions have been placed on the 2.0 mg form). It is colorless, odorless, and tasteless and dissolves without leaving any traces. It takes effect approximately 10 - 20 minutes after ingestion. Rohypnol can be added to any liquid (effect lasting 2-8 hours) but when added to alcohol it produces disinhibition and amnesia (effect lasting 8 - 24 hours). Rohypnol can be detected in the blood for 24 hours and in the urine for 48 hours. Some individuals use Rohypnol as an alcohol extender for a rapid and dramatic high. This is something to watch for in social settings if individuals seem extremely intoxicated after consuming only a small amount of alcohol. Hoffman-La Roche is working on changing the formula so trace particles or a color would appear when Rohypnol is dissolved.

 

Street Names: Roofies, Rope, Ruffies, R2, Ruffles, Roche, Forget-pill.

 

GHB


It is an odorless, colorless, liquid depressant with anesthetic qualities. It is also used as an amino acid by bodybuilders. GHB is usually distributed as a sodium salt in powder or tablet form commonly dissolved in water. This drug gives a feeling of relaxation, tranquillity, sensuality, and loss off inhibitions (especially for women). The drug takes effect 10 - 15 minutes after ingestion and lasts 2 - 3 hours unless combined with alcohol, where effect may last 20 - 30 hours. Large doses can induce sudden sleep within 5 - 10 minutes.

 

Street Names: Liquid Extacy, Liquid X, Scoop, Easy Lay.

 

Ketamine

It is a new drug that has been added to the predator drug category. It is a powerful anesthetic used as an animal tranquilizer. It is available in liquid, powder or pill form. Ketamine causes hallucinations, amnesia and dissociation (a feeling where the mind seems separated from the body) making it attractive for a potential date rapist.

 

Street Names: 'K', Special K, Vitamin K, Ket.

Thanks!

okay..now I am going to bed...bye all!

Can't find it though?

Waitingtoknow........G'nite!

My time is up too, time for some sleep!  Sweet dreams all........
Continue to pray................

WCG

Now I see!

Yes she will!

Did you see my next post with the link???  Hit the "Scared Monkey's Forum Index" and it's at the bottom of the menu of threads to see!  (at the bottom of the page that the threads are listed on).........

Here's the link again.........

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/index.php

EDIT.....i see you found it! :D

This one's the culprit.

GHB


It is an odorless, colorless, liquid depressant with anesthetic qualities. It is also used as an amino acid by bodybuilders. GHB is usually distributed as a sodium salt in powder or tablet form commonly dissolved in water. This drug gives a feeling of relaxation, tranquillity, sensuality, and loss off inhibitions (especially for women). The drug takes effect 10 - 15 minutes after ingestion and lasts 2 - 3 hours unless combined with alcohol, where effect may last 20 - 30 hours. Large doses can induce sudden sleep within 5 - 10 minutes.

If she makes it through this she is going to have one of the greatest outpouring of love and support we've ever seen, and I think every bit will be needed. She has that family and that is a terrific place to start.

I just hope she gets that chance.

Night all!  I'm out of it, and outa here! God Bless Natalee and all her family and friends!

REFERENCE:

>"On Natalee's Yahoo forum there there is a report that
>a heliocopter is searching Santa Lucia area because
>according to the cell phone records of one of the three
>suspects there was a call in the Santa Lucia area at 6:30
>am the morning Natalee was to have met up with the
>group to leave for airport.
>
>Santa Lucia is is in Santa Cruz....pass the Ayo Rock
>Formations.... Right where they have the Donkey sanctuary
>

So apparently to sum it all up; they were lying from the
beginning.. Joran apparently calling from the Santa Lucia
area at around 6:30 am -- maybe they led everyone to
believe they went west to the California Lighthouse..
when then actually went up around the Santa Lucia area
(sooner or later).. and thereby Natalee's body may be
around the Santa Lucia area.
(??) Big search on Thursday?

[All other previous sites still had to be checked out --
a process of elimination..]

good info.....who knows what the drug is/was....she may have od'd or had an allergic reaction.   I almost died
 (anaphaylacic shock_) from otc drug called naprocyn....

No real need for a "date-rape" drug..

Don't believe there was any real need for a "date-rape" drug.

THE REASON THESE HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES TRAVELED FROM ALABAMA TO ARUBA IS BECAUSE OF THE LEGAL DRINKING AGE:

-  LEGAL DRINKING AGE IN ALABAMA IS 21;  
-  LEGAL DRINKING AGE IN ARUBA IS 18.

APPARENTLY THE BARTENDER STATED THAT NATALEE HAD 4 OR 5 VODKA DRINKS -- FOR AN 18 YEAR OLD GIRL (WHO'S NOT REALLY USED TO HEAVY DRINKING NOR BAR DRINKING) -- THAT'S "LIKE GETTING HIT BY A MACK TRUCK"!

Apparently, VDS thereafter, easily took advantage of Natalee..

That amount of alcohol would not kill her. That would point to her being straight-out murdered by Joran or one of the 2 guys. I just don't think that is what this guy had an intention of doing. In anger or a confrontation maybe, but if she was that drunk Joran completes his act and they pack her off back to the hotel. They put her out there at the Holiday Inn entrance, she is still out of it and the next day she wakes up with the world's worst hangover and remembers nothing and gets on the plane and out of Joran's life forever. MAYBE the next morning/day she realizes what happens but she is on the way OUT and any consequences for the 3 guys are not as likely.

If she died that night I think it is EXTREMELY likely that GHB was involved.

EDIT: Not only have I outlasted everyone else tonight, my main computer just went crazy on me and I am having to switch to my laptop.

This thing is even wearing out our computers LOL!

Good night to this empty room!

You still here sb?

Good morning....anyone hear any more about the helicopter?

I saw mention of a Emily Jones on a website http://www.geocities.com/proud_college_republican/
which states she had been in Aruba a few weeks before and recognized one of the suspects.
Was there anymore to the story than that?

Fox News just reported that US sent a thermal heat helicopter to Aruba (which was someone posted to this forum yesterday)

I'm confused...Greta on Fox had a spokesperson for the prosecution on last night...I could have sworn that woman said it was a Dutch helicopter.

If Nat is no longer with us. Do you guys think all three are involved in a burial/disposal or just J?

I believe all 3 are involved in some way.

I'm beginning to wonder if she's even on the island.

BobnTexas, I saw the website you referenced about Emily Jones - that's the first I heard of it.

I imagine the way they hung out in the casinos and partied, a lot of visitors to Aruba probably recognize them.

Pine - I am wondering so as well- I thought that she would be by now if there was a body.

WonderWoman posted:
Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:20 am      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Is it possible that Joran called Deepak and Satish, told them that after they dropped him and Natalee off at the beach, he brought her back to the hotel, but now that she is missing he needs to say that they were with him? They, being his friends, KNOW he wouldn't do anything bad, so they agree its okay to say they were all three together when she was dropped off. Now, that they realize their friend could have indeed been involved, they freak out and tell the truth?


Does that make sense?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That makes a WHOLE lot of sense.

I didn't realize that the linked page was updating it's information....thanks for putting that link back up. I notice there are pictures of the police searching some boats. The article isn't in English. I hope someone can translate that article about the yacht club search.

Ignore my previous posting. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because it doesn't explain how Joran got home afterwards. Unfortunately, it looks like all 3 had to be involved.

It will be interesting to see how the Judge rules today on the petition (or whatever it is called) from Joran's dad.

Does anyone know how long it will take them to test for drugs from the evidence they got yesterday???

They must know something by now from the cell phones and computers.

Plus, and this is NOT to excuse them, whatever happened was not what they intended.  I say that because too many people saw her leaving with VDS and he had to know it.  If you intend to harm someone, you sure don't manage to be the last person seen with your victim.


He many have planned to have sex--even if it meant rape--but I don't think he planned a murder or kidnapping.  He knew she was part of a larger group and not some lone visitor.

Tom and/or Red - I received an error message after linking to the PayPal page from your home page.  Any ideas???

Thx

Here is my logic: All three had to be involved in the murder, since the Kalpoe brothers had to give Joran a ride home. After seeing that "something bad" had happened, they would have tried to dispose of the body at that point. Thus, all three would have been involved in a disposal of the body.

This happened with a few folks about midnight last night...it may not have been fixed yet as everyone was pretty tired by sign-off time.  They do know about though.

How closely were those three boys monitored after they were initially questioned?  Could it be possible Joran might have "placed" Natalee somewhere initially; and then, seeing all the publicity, do something else with her?...or is that too farteched?

Agree!!

That is one of the great unanswered questions: how closely the three young men were monitored, after they were initially questioned. When all is said and done, someone is going to write a book, documenting what was done -- and what was NOT done -- in this case.

But that doesn't explain how Joran got home. I changed my mind on that one.

Good morning all, and to our Friend Dash, when you read this, you did a GREAT job last night on O'Reilly, you and your friend, both, represented MBHS, Natalee, Family, Alabama, all of us very well.  Good Job!  We are all proud of you!    :D

Personally, I think they need to start questioning the "judge to be" weird to me they hauled both family vehicles off y'day.  I still fiond it hard to believe this 3 "studs" are in on this alone.  I think they had help, and I think the "judge" is a good place to start further questioning......

You know what...after thinking a bit, Joran wouldn't need to wait until after he was questioned...

Natalee was found out to be missing until she didn't arrive for her flight.  I bet the boys didn't go to bed until verrry late, trying to figure out-and perhaps acting out-what to do.  He could easily have taken a boat somewhere to get her away from the island.  Is this plausible?

I think the boys haven't cracked yet because they know the police are not going to find Natalee.

You know coffee mugs and tee shirts are fine and dandy, but what brought a lot of people to this site was a hunger for INFORMATION about Natalee Holloway and the investigation into her disappearance.

So, when all the dust is settled and when there is an opportunity to go back and sift through the truth and lies that have been disseminated, someone is going to have a BIG STORY to tell. And it ought to be Scared Monkeys, and not Greta van Sustren, or Whorealdo Rivera.

Tom and Red ought to be thinking now about how to use the power of the internet to accomplish that effort.

Perhaps they can start a separate forum for compiling a timeline and commenting upon developments in this case. And they would have to closely monitor the activity, so that everyone stayed on topic, when commenting.

Well, since mommy and daddy put him up in his own apartment, who knows his whereabouts for that entire period!

I'd personally like to know more about the brothers....what kind of a family are they from?  No one has ever said a thing, that I've seen anyway, from their family.

There are pictures of the police investigating on a boat - can't remember the site - it's one of the first posts this morning.  And then I think Riehl World is saying the police are questioning 3 other men.  

Interesting.  I wonder if the police will interrogate in a little harsher manner if the helicopter didn't pick up anything last night.  That would mean others could be involved for sure...the whole boat thing to get her off the island.

I agree. I think they spent all night disposing of the body.

Star of our great state! :D

This article dated the 16th, says that Aruba is taking a dive in tourism. It also mentions that it was Joren's father who took down his websites.

Edit
whoops...forgot to add the link:
http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050616a.html

To pinemeadows, who wrote: I'm just amazed that young, first-time offenders can pull something like this off.

My reply: It really doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? That these 3 young men could pull off something like this, without some kind of help. But whatever help they got would have been before Natalee was discovered missing.

Oh I do hope the FBI and others are not just searching the local area.  I worry people have put too much validity into what was said to the security guard by the brother.  I know people have been saying that the brother didn't know who the security guard was (in the jail cell, so that is why he talked to him); however, why would the brother talk to anyone in the cell.  C'mon, he would know anyone he talked to would tell what was said.

I truly am starting to feel that Natalee is nowhere in the vicinity that the cops have been searching.  I know if I were Joran's shoes I would have "confessed" to something by now;I would be scared sh*tless!  .  Plus, he knows that if he did indeed have sex with her and she was found it would be able to be proven. Also, if he raped her, people would be able to tell by the marks on her body.  It's because of this that I truly feel she might not be in the local vicinity/

However, from what we know so far, he-nor his friends-have been forthcoming with any reliable leads....

I'm just amazed that young, first-time offenders can pull something like this off.[/quote]

It really doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? That these 3 young men could pull off something like this, without some kind of help. But whatever help they got would have been before Natalee was discovered missing.[/quote]

Polis can be very helpful sometimes....

I agree totally with you professor, and it is mighty strange that Judge has kept a very low profile up until now, and all of a sudden he demands to see his son....If the court rules in his favor, there should be someone, something monitoring their conversation.

It really doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? That these 3 young men could pull off something like this, without some kind of help. But whatever help they got would have been before Natalee was discovered missing.[/quote]

Polis can be very helpful sometimes....[/quote]

I definitely agree!

I don't know if this has been posted.  Has some good pics of the investigation and Joran.

http://www.geocities.com/proud_college_republican/

Here's a thought:  Why did they allow his mother in to see him and not the father in the first place????

aruba has jerked my chain 4 the last time.......NH is probably alive (if
she's minding).....but she ain't n or around aruba....what seems like random
events is really a well oiled machine and it is ABOVE THE LAW...this is
white slavery territory we're n....no "rules".....I no the game now....and
we ALL need to deal w/ it.......if there was no internet I wood no only watt
the mainstream media tells me (laughable) and b OK......but I no more
now....

the scam is this....the dutchguy is the setup man. he takes the "mark" and
plays kissy kissy wink wink all week and plants the "trust me" hook.....he
sets em up and the brothers carry em 2 the boat......after they seperate the "mark" from "the herd" and away we go......no body ever found means no murder conviction.....they do their "time" and are released........what a gig......foolproof......I feel for the people caught up in this twisted vortex....the ONLY way her parents will ever see her is 2 pay 2 have her back and it's very slim odds because that wood b an admission of guilt by the pirates of the caribbean.....u just don't kill women like NH....unless u can throw away $20,000, $50,000, $100,000.........way 2 valuable......the abducted women cooperate or die....real simple....what wood u do in their place? b honest
w/ yourself......I'm through checking EVERY headline cause it don't
matter.....I now no how it's gonna play now.....the "student"
brothers......."students" of watt and tell me about their mainland
connections.....the 3 will b released.....b honest agin.......no
evidence.....if this disturbs u, I apologize, it's just the reality of the
situation......hug ur fam, kids, friends 2 day because ur free and not in a nightmare like this......watt did NH ever do to warrant her punishment....the trio is a lot more scared of their BOSS than the law......all the king horses and all the kings men......be well

NH has been SOLD. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth is ugly and it hurts. We must deal with it though as adults and stop pretending it doesn't happen. There's BIG money playing the game. Here's an example:
You buy a blonde women (popular where everyone is dark headed) for $100,000. She could easily make you $50,000 a year for say 20 years. After 2 years she's paid for and pure profit. $50,000 x 20 years = $1,000,000.
We lead sheltered lives in the US. Painfull to think about but it happens
ALL the time. She's NOT on Aruba, look all you want. She left Aruba on a boat within an hour of leaving the bar. This is the ONLY scenario that fits all the "evidence". She was stalked from day 1, nothing accidental about it. Time will bear this out.

Good morning everyone!

I just got in to the office -- anything new since about 6pm yesterday?

Polis can be very helpful sometimes....[/quote]

I definitely agree![/quote]

Lets not forget the boys were likely undelp....er inf of alchohol too,at least....they could not have done anything like hide body fast w/no help...also,deepak told us thru Mickey that they never went back to hotel/
never went to lighthouse either if u ask me ...but I do believeall 3 did have sex with her somewhere...something bad happened, cell call @ 6:30 from Joran...from south side of island...



arubagirl "R u j;up?

Also, the timeline would make it difficult for the 17 year old to be acting alone.

He was in class according to reports, the very next day.  It was late when they were leaving the club.  

Where were the brothers that next day while he was in class?  Where was his dad?

He flat could not have acted alone in my opinion.

The white slavery story seems pretty far-fetched to me. Why stalk a rich, well-connected girl from Mountainbrook, AL, when there are lots of pretty, young native girls around? All you are going to do is get the FBI involved. Nah. Not believable.

This may answer your question, ofcourse it is from Fox and we know how reliable they are  :roll:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159730,00.html

Van Der Sloot's father, Paul van der Sloot (search), filed a motion allowing him to see his son. Aruban authorities had denied visitation because of the father's status. The father is a wealthy judge-in-training on the island, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases.
"When you're a minor you have a right to visitation from your parents. But because of legal concerns, because the father is part of the legal system, that right was not granted in the first instance," said Aruba government spokesman Rueben Trappenberg. Another judge will decide if the boy's father can visit him after the motion is filed.

Whew! Pretty powerful statements there, I see the anger is starting to get to you as well as the rest of us!Anything is possible at this point, if I believed someone could actually "just go poof into thin air" (like my lil one says) I would believe it at this point, but it is not possible to "go poof" so she has to be somewhere.But where in the world is it? :cry:

I do believe Joran is not the only one involved, and I do believe that the brothers know a lot more than what they are letting on...only because if I knew something that serious, I would tell...especially if I knew that I was innocent.  Due to the fact that they aren't forthcoming with information to convict their friend is what leads me to believe they are very guilty of having a part in Natalee's disappearance.

New development: I think the 6:30 am cell phone call from the south side of the island from Joran's cell phone on the morning when Natalee disappeared may be a significant development.

From the South side of the island. Miles and miles away from where everyone has been looking to date.

1.   I agree that Natalee´s disappearance seems too perfect to have been planned by three teenagers.
2.   This is unless they had done this before and the whole thing was premeditated, including eliminating all tracks leading to their incrimination.
3.   They had plenty of time to get rid of evidence, since Natalee´s absence was noticed about 9 hours later after she left the bar with the three individuals (as the group was leaving the hotel to go the airport). I wonder when did the investigation started…
4.   I also believe that the versions they are giving may be untrue and misleading to distract the investigators from what really happened, while they left someone in charge to get rid of all evidence.

could be anywhere....south america, saudi arabia, israel

Yes, and who was he calling or who was calling him?  That could be just as significant as the where location.

If the call for instance was to his dad, then who did THAT person in turn call?

To Hopeful: It doesn't look premeditated. If it were premeditated, they wouldn't have kept a high profile at Carlos and Charlies. They would have snatched Natalee while she was separated from her group.

Who reported there was a 6:30am phone call?  It is key to find out what the brothers did when the got the call from Joran, I assumed that was earlier...if it happened at all.

THose boys really have balls for messing with police.  How brazen!! I can't believe that this is there first time involved in a crime; they are too smart (so it seems right now) and manipulative.  I hate to say they are smart, but what I mean is that their tactics to make the focus of the search in a completely different area have worked!

Wonder who the call from Joran was to?

look back last nite nancy drew...it it why I think Saint Lucia came up...

R U really a detective??

I believe it was Fox News. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Doesn't keep it from being "premeditated".  They could have had it all planned out, being as it has been confirmed Natalee had been seen talking to Joran in days prior to her disappearance.  They surely didn't waste no time pointing fingers at the 2 security guards.

these 3 "boys" are PROS and they no exactly watt they're doing.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159711,00.html

Professor: Sounds logical...but what if they wanted everything to look as casual as possible? Seems like a remote possibility, but still a possibility…

Hi everyone!  I thought that since it was slow right now I would go ahead and post a hello  :)   I have been reading along with yall for days now and have been praying for Natalee, her family, and her friends since the day that she disappeared.  I live in Meridian (where her Dad lives) and have been touched by the prayers, support, Pray for Natalee signs, etc from the community, but have been a bit disappointed by the lack of news coverage here.  Thanks to all of you and this forum for keeping so many of us up to date.  I am still praying for Natalee's safe return!

Morning All.  MSNBC will be have most of thenhour about this.  reports on the 15 minute marks.  His mom her mom etc

thank uo MS girl.... we have all prayed alot here for NH and her family..

Also fox right now about to talk about the date rape drug

This stuff is all over the petty criminal circuit in South America.  I saw it used a few times in Venezuela, by prostitutes to rob clients and by thieves to gain entry to homes by drugging domestic employees on the way to work, among others.  Some of these put the victim into a hypnotic state where they will do anything you tell them to.  While the drugging for sex is a good hypothesis, it doesn't explain the total disappearance of Natalee.   These guys were out of time and it was getting light in Aruba by the end of any timeline they have given.  Are there other possibilities, such as extortionate kidnapping?

Friend of Monkeys,

Uhhhhhhh no, I'm not a detective!  

I missed several hours yesterday as I had a computer virus. Uggghhhh.  I never saw the report on the 6:30am phone call. Now that Geraldo is out of there I might start believing Fox.  Greta is like a breath of fresh air. I didn't hear her report on such a call.

I just heard MSNBC report that Joran's lawyer has violated rules due to the fact he was discussing the case with possible witnesses (I think they said witnesses).

u can't tell the red herrings apart w/o a program rite now n aruba. its the motherload of smoke and mirrors. she's gone from aruba, has been since the 30th. everthing has turned out 2 b just another diversion dead end. am I telling the truth? u think she was raped and killed because "they" want u 2 think it. look thru the smoke and diversion (grasshopper). she will never b found on aruba because she's not there. time will bear this out.

Did Natalee's friends go on O'Rielly last night? What happened there?

Pinemeadows mentioned earlier about the unconfirmed report on Riehl World that 3 additional men are being questioned.  His morning post also contains information about the cell phone call and helicopter search.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

The Most Believable Story (MBS): Natalee was given a date rape drug, shortly before leaving the bar. Joran, Satish and Deepak would have administered the drug. They would have offered to drive her home, but taken her somewhere else and raped her. Then something went wrong, "something bad happened." They either killed her or she died of an overdose. Since Joran had no other transportation that night, all three individuals would have been involved in the crime and thus in the disposal of the body. Since there are reports of a 6:30 cell phone call from the South side of the island, that may be where she is buried. They may have had help in disposing of the body, since it appears to be a pretty thorough job.

Wizard, I disagree.  Joran seemed to want sex far more than money.  Just my opinion.  I do believe there is a strong slave trade.  But, my gut tells me this is not the case.  We've got an aggressive party boy with possibly a checkered past...out with an American girl in the middle of the night in Aruba.  Anythings possible..but, I don't think this case is that complicated.  It's a great fiction story...but, I don't think it happened here.

I think Joran lost it!

I have never heard of a confirmed report about the phone call either,
I know I haven't had much faith in Fox for a long time, the inquirer seems to have more reliable info. :D

We have the same speculations on this wwizard, I went from days 1, 2 and 3 thinking a possible runnaway, to days 4-17 thinking she was kidnapped, as to where I am at this point, believing the same thing.  Sadly though, by who?  I believe they have the right 3 that assisted in the intial stage of the kidnapping, but, unfortuantly, I firmly believe they did NOT act on their own.

o.k. is this a "conspiracy theory"..are you psychic? Pretty strong convictions there.

EXACTLY, they didnt act on their own. they are part of the "well oiled machine". they are PROS playing everybody like a cheap fiddle. they r far more scared of their BOSS than us or the law.

I am soooo tired of hearing how long its been like they arent doing anything.  I know it is easy to point fingers but as i said yesterday in the AM.... I was close to the Jessica Lunsford case....  It took 3 weeks to get a lead and she was 80 yards from thier comand post.  Mark was out EVERYDAY searching.  We as americans are in no possition to point fingers at anyone in the LE over there.  Our LE does not release info either!  They wait.  Im sure all our doing thier best.  Its heart breaking and being hit by such a thing so close here I can see how it all unfolds.  Media twisted things and used stuff for head lines then too.  Some stuff you wouldnt believe if I told you.  Please have  Patience.  
And thanks to TOM, RED, and ALL our Aruba friends and not to forget our Star DASH.
Is funny how Dash is some much wiser in her years for her tolerance in not blaming anyone just wanting the truth and to find Nat

my guess is probable witnesses are at polis station--

AND NOT IN A CELL EITHER!

Typical 17 year old boy, but this one carried an anger management issue along with it.At that age the horomones are horrendous and once past the point of thinking they are going to get it, they can either gain some self control or just take it any way that they can get it.Never thought that I would FEEL old enough to say this..but SOME kids these days are ruined, either by lack of parental involvement or just society in general....BUT there are still tons of great kids in the world.

June 16, 2005
Helicopter Searches Aruba, Police Search Teen's Home
In the relative cool of the Aruban night, a helicopter equipped with heat-detecting technology searched parts of the island looking for signs of Natalee Holloway, who disappeared May 30 the day her senior class group was scheduled to return to Alabama.

Also on Wednesday, police searched the home of Joran Van Der Sloot, the 17-year-old who was one of the last known people to see Natalee. They searched the grounds and inside the attached apartment in which he lives at his parents' home.

Authorities seized two vehicles, believed to be those of his parents, at the home. Van Der Sloot's mother is a teacher and his father is a high-ranking justice ministry official, who is scheduled to become a judge.

Speculation was also raised Wednesday that Natalee may have been the victim of a date rape drug. Friends who saw her leave the nightclub that night said she had been drinking, but was hardly intoxicated. However, the Kalpoe brothers reportedly told authorities that she appeared extremely drunk.

Police Tracked Three Students

New information concerning the three suspects -- Van Der Sloot, Satish Kalpoe, 18, and Deepak Kalpoe, 21 -- has been reported. The three were questioned immediately after Natalee disappeared and were released, a move that has since be criticized by Holloway's family.

But recent reports say police placed tracking devices on the three students' vehicles and tapped their cell phones in hopes it might lead authorities to Natalee, if she was being held somewhere against her will.

The three originally told police they dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn the night she disappeared, but since they have been detained and separated, all three have changed their stories.

The two Kalpoe brothers are saying that they dropped off Natalee and Van Der Sloot in an area near the Marriott. Van Der Sloot said the others dropped him off at home and then took Natalee back to the Holiday Inn.

Meanwhile, Natalee's family and friends still have no idea as to what happened to the Alabama honor student.

I agree.  Most Believable (simple/logical).

its NOT hormones with dutchboy, its bizzness (as usual) he (and they) git paid for this

Good morning.  You guys are at it early this morning!   :D

Well said, and ummmmm, that "DEE" person on O'Reilly last night, well, lets just say that she is very disrespectful and not an alabamaian I am proud of.......

Morning Dragon  :)

Okay, if your theories are so dead on and this is business "as usual" for Joran, then where are the other women coming from?  I haven't anything about other missing women from Aruba recent enough to be at the hands of this young man and not many at all even if you go back several years.

Good Morning Dragon, did you bring breakfast?  :D

I heard one of the brothers has dad involved heavily in a shipping business/owns it??? Thoughts wiz?

sorry-the brothers dad....shipping co owner

No, sorry.  I was actually just sitting here wondering what on earth I was going to eat to shut my stomach up!!  lol.

Im just tired of hearin that Natalee should have been more responsible, and this and that (like she is being blamed) ya know..yeah it wasnt the smartest of choices..but she is sitll someones friend, sister, daughter, etc….and she deserves to be treatd that way…Not like she is the cause of this…… Im not sayin people on here are sayin that…just people on other sites from Aruba…and No IM NOT DISSIN ON ARUBA IN ANY WAY!!!! Just sayin that a few people that said they were from aruba were sayin “oh she shouldnt have done this, or done that..” Well no kiddin….still doesnt give anyone the right to hurt her! Sorry everyone…lol……had to vent….this is all gettin very frustrating…

If the investigation was done right....we wouldnt be talking all this right now...For example"

if confiscated the cell phones, clothes…Comp..searched cars, and houses the first day they took them in….Natalee would have been found..not sure if she would be alive or not………..but we wouldnt be here talkin bout how rediculous this investigation has gone. Its uncalled for, unprofessional, and inexcusable..and i feel so much for her family! Its a discrace!!!!!! IN a month or so the aruba government will be coverin their asses just like they are coverin Joran’s NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When all is said and done, Tom and Red need to write a book that brings together all the facts and theories, and shows how the bloggers stayed one step ahead of the MSM, who merely recycled the same old same old, hour after hour, or spread wild rumors with no foundation (Whoraldo). It would have to be written quickly, but should give credit to the various Aruba news services, the Yahoo Natalee Holloway group site, Riehl World, and contributors like Dash and Arubagirl. A big project on a short time frame, but it would make a wonderful read.

I think we know amazingly little about the brothers.  I hope the police know more than we do.

Are they natives of the Island--or did they move there.  At what age?  What about their family?  Sources of income?  Where were they a year ago for instance?


I just don't think that we have all the pieces of the puzzle.

Great post
Just have to add there is also no leads on Shasta & Dylan Groene, missing since May 15th , no arrests, no one in custody and no more headlines.
Aruba at least seems to be doing something

I agree...

Joran's mother is on MSNBC.  I do feel bad for her, even if he is guilty.

totally

I agree.  Chandra Levy was in the park for a year and Laci was in the water for months before we found them.   I think seeing her mom on TV breaks our hearts and makes us want a quick resolution.  I know some things do not make sense in this investigation, but hopefully when all is said and done and we are privy to what exactly they were doing, it will.

Absolutely.  More correct information here than on TV.  A lot of speculation too, but a lot of information that is correct.  And many many people emotionally involved in a story about a young woman we don't even know.

Kelly.. did u know LE was at the house knocking on door for info from nieghbors where Jessica in twice.  They Lied.

I followed that story as well, until it just vanished into thin air.  I have often wondered since the last article I read on them where the investigation stood, another tragic story. :(

im starting to think that something else is going on here... im not sure just what... but last summer my gf and i and our 2 friends went to aruba, like every summer, well the two of them were walking on the beach at like 4 am and someone came out of the bushes wearing all black and proceed to coming walking up to them at a quick pace, they got scared shitless and started to run..( this took place between the hyatt and the HI). well if vd sloot did go to the fisherman huts maybe they were both assaulted and natalee was taken by others. that area is a know local hang out, however i dont know how many ppl are actually out there at 4 in the morn...thinking about this for 17 days, ive been able to come up with very little.. think about it. if they (the authorities) are going to look near ayo, that area is a tourist attraction and a freshly dug grave would have certainly stood out, especislly with everyone looking for natalee. something else is definetley going on here... i hestate to say slave trade because nothing like that has happened before, and there is no pattern of kidnapping on aruba..im just as perplexed as others..

GOOD MORNING ALL Have a ??? Does N E ONE KNOW if N E ONE ever checked the caves on the island?????????

Yes, this is something I mentioned yesterday.  Very little out there about them.  I've never seen any factual information about the parents or even caught a glimpse of them on the news.  Nothing about anything.  Just the coverage of the car being impounded.

I do not feel bad because she knows that her son holding something back...she is a mother and , yes she will feel for her son, but she needs to open her eyes and realize that there is a mother/family that is hurting, and is being left with unanswered question, and left without knowing what happened to her daughter, so maybe she should think about that! Im sorry but I would consider someone elses feelings other than her own..and tryin to protect" her familys image.....And yes i would stick by my son/daughters side for support..but would want that family to have closure.....HE NEEDS TO CONFESS TO WHAT HE KNOWS!

Thank you Robert of this information.  Natalee is a small girl, probably not accustomed to drinking.  Five rotgut vodkas should be more than enough to knock her off balance.  Booze can be dangerous in the wrong situation.    

If that is the case, why didn't vd tell the police??

And here is yet one more ???  Regarding the bros - I have heard the father owns or ops a car dealership - if so what are the chances of them say "borrowing" another car even an SUV??????????????????????????

im not quite sure of alot of the supposed known "facts".. they seem to change evry 5 minutes....

My point exactly.  Natalee very well could still be in Aruba.  Natalee very well could still be alive.  Jessica was alive at least once when the police were at that house.  I personally have my opinion about what happened to Natalee,  but I do realize that it is very possible for her to still be there and be alive.  And it's just as possible that she is dead and the police have been where she is and haven't found her.

GOOD POINT!!  Although I thought it was a rental agency (I could be wrong)

goodmorning all just woke up, any news? new detail? or are we still  waiting.............:0)

If the investigation was done right....we wouldnt be talking all this right now...For example"



totally[/quote]

new thought.....
MAYBE IS TAKING LONG TO FIND NATALLES BODY CUZ JORAN TRUSTED SOMEONE ELSE TO "TAKE CARE OF IT"
AND HE REALLY DOES NOT KNOW, AND HAS TROUBLE TO GIVE UP NAME OF POLIS WHO HELPED HIM OUT??

99% of abductions dont git n e press, especially if they are frum the 3rd world. this is BIG bizzness. this aint bout sex, drugs r rock n roll, this is about MONEY. the brothers are modern day pirates (for lack of better wurd).

Could Joran not have walked home?  

i doubt joran walked home....

IN SILENCE
THERE IS EVERYTHING
AND NOTHING-
ALL AT ONCE

Sleeks, I'm not sure about this.  I saw on the news in the early days coverage of a car rental business and some people have since said that is not true.  Someone said something about them owning part of some small airline or something that actually is owned by the government, now someone else says something about shipping business.  I have no clue at all.

eye dont believe n coincidence, do u?

NH's mom is about to be on MSNBC.

Another interesting factor to me - I've seen all the garbage website posted by Joran - only 1 about the one brother.  And from what I did see - he didn't strike me as self-absorbed as Joran.  WHAT DO U THINK?

what did J's mom have to say this morning

does anyone think there will be a break in this case and it will be solved soon?

On Greta last night the reporter with her at the light house showed the direction he lived in and it would have been a loooong walk at 4am from the hotels

Has anyone heard more about Joran's lawyer violating a law?  MSNBC reported it this morning. But, didn't give details.

i also think it is interesting that the aua authorities have been looking in SA...as reported last week

Thanks Dragonfly - at this point I think we are all either being purposely mislead or it is just like someone said yesterday.  The media is just trying for ratings.

NOT TO MENTION -now it is like 48 hours past the 24 hours we were supposed to hear something with regards to a "resolution."

Rox wrote...Great post
Just have to add there is also no leads on Shasta & Dylan Groene, missing since May 15th , no arrests, no one in custody and no more headlines.
Aruba at least seems to be doing something

ANother very good point why arent americans knocking down that towns LE door for info where are those children.  Please dont miss understand i surf ather boards for info on them too and I am just as concerned for Nat. The only diff. is I happen to be closer to the Jessica case.

The timeline indicates nothing really happened investigationwise until Natalee's family, probably assisted by security consultants on the island (Kroll, Control Risk?) identified and tracked down Joran sometime around midnight the following night.  

Im at work so really cant stay updated with the news today......other than internet resourses which are showin same things........anyone hear anything new................

I think that some of us yesterday were beginning to wonder how well Joran knew the brothers and if they were all that close.  The brothers are not listed as his "friends" on at least one of his websites and besides the picture I see on the news, I haven't seen many of them together.  Maybe this is why they turned on each other so fast.  And, although I do believe they all know something about where she is, I also think there is a little more truth to the story the brothers are telling.

i hate to say this but the idiot boys dont look sharp enough to pull this off.
maybe just maybe they are nt the actual perps..

AMY BRADLEY ANOTHER EXAMPLE And what about her poor parents???????

But also realize that they did not KNOW when she would be reported missing.  They could not assume they had all that time.  For all they knew, there could have been a report as early as the next morning at departure time and someone could have remembered right then who they last saw her with.

They had to operate with the belief that by daylight or shortly thereafter, people would be looking and asking questions.

I do think that.  Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I really think they are operating on concrete information now with the searches.  Information from phone records and the brothers.  So, I guess I just have a feeling that something will happen soon.  I hope I'm not wrong.

i dont know who S&D groene are , are they important to this cse?

[

aruba has jerked my chain 4 the last time.......NH is probably alive (if
she's minding).....but she ain't n or around aruba....what seems like random events is really a well oiled machine and it is ABOVE THE LAW...this is white slavery territory we're n....no "rules".....I no the game now....and we ALL need to deal w/ it.......if there was no internet I wood no only watt the mainstream media tells me (laughable) and b OK......but I no more now....

the scam is this....the dutchguy is the setup man. he takes the "mark" and
plays kissy kissy wink wink all week and plants the "trust me" hook.....he
sets em up and the brothers carry em 2 the boat......after they seperate the "mark" from "the herd" and away we go......no body ever found means no murder conviction.....they do their "time" and are released........what a gig......foolproof......I feel for the people caught up in this twisted vortex....the ONLY way her parents will ever see her is 2 pay 2 have her back and it's very slim odds because that wood b an admission of guilt by the pirates of the caribbean.....u just don't kill women like NH....unless u can throw away $20,000, $50,000, $100,000.........way 2 valuable......the abducted women cooperate or die....real simple....what wood u do in their place? b honest
w/ yourself......I'm through checking EVERY headline cause it don't
matter.....I now no how it's gonna play now.....the "student"
brothers......."students" of watt and tell me about their mainland
connections.....the 3 will b released.....b honest agin.......no
evidence.....if this disturbs u, I apologize, it's just the reality of the
situation......hug ur fam, kids, friends 2 day because ur free and not in a nightmare like this......watt did NH ever do to warrant her punishment....the trio is a lot more scared of their BOSS than the law......all the king horses and all the kings men......be well

NH has been SOLD. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth is ugly and it hurts. We must deal with it though as adults and stop pretending it doesn't happen. There's BIG money playing the game. Here's an example:
You buy a blonde women (popular where everyone is dark headed) for $100,000. She could easily make you $50,000 a year for say 20 years. After 2 years she's paid for and pure profit. $50,000 x 20 years = $1,000,000.
We lead sheltered lives in the US. Painfull to think about but it happens
ALL the time. She's NOT on Aruba, look all you want. She left Aruba on a boat within an hour of leaving the bar. This is the ONLY scenario that fits all the "evidence". She was stalked from day 1, nothing accidental about it. Time will bear this out.

http://www.findclaudia.homestead.com/files/Jamaica_Scotsman.htm

 

this case is similar to natalee's but in Jamaica. She was never found and no one was ever charged. happened at the same time of year... end of May in 2000

As i friend of Marks it was gut wrenching to hear people on the boards accusing him of a crime because he had long hair and bad teeth.... Then his mom.  They left their home number up for anyone to call... someone call and told that poor woman she would rot in hell for what she did to that little girl.   It was heart breaking!!!!  And the Same was done to his father!  I hope and pray to those of you that have never been touched by such tragic events will not have to see these mean hatefull things.  Even the Media twisted things for headlines!

Agree again Dragonfly - I don't believe either that they knew each other for very long.  I do think however Joran was probably the dominate one of the group.

I agree.

I think this is a simple case.  Natalie seemed to like and trust Joran, and thought nothing of being alone with him.  Joran is a spoiled teen, use to having his  own way.  If Natalie said no and Joran didn't stop, she may have yelled for help and he killed her, or he killed her to stop her from telling.

Joran is a very big young man, 6'5.  Natalie was/is only 5'4.  She would not have stood a chance against him.

Joran could have buried her right there, walked home and got his parents car and then buried her, or called Deepak for help.

Joran lived about 1 mile from the hotels in Montana.  Easy walking.  The brother's live in Hooiberg.


Map
http://www.caribline.com/islands/ar/armap.shtml

OK off my soapbox.  Just am glad our Aruba friends havent taken some of the negative to heart and remain here for those of us who really care.

I am starting to believe you wiz....
gotta work soon... bye

Rob, IMO it didn't take alot of smarts to commit this crime.  And, I don't think  "they pulled anything off".  I think this was a crime of passion gone bad...just because a body hasn't been found it doubt it's because of the smarts of the trio.  

They're teenagers, not brilliant criminals.

nancy, im 40 and i would have cracked by now.. you re telling me that a 17 yr old would nt come on!

Can one of our Aruba correspondents get a fix on what business the Kalpoes are in.  Last night the Aruban reporter with Greta said they are upper middle and "have money".  

(quote="festa"]

GOOD POINT!!  Although I thought it was a rental agency (I could be wrong)[/quote]

But his dad sure could have helped in the cover up.

With his size and her small stature, she could have suffocated during a rape just by his body without strangling.  

Dad would have had the smarts to plan a cover up.

Again who was he calling that morning.

This case has been likened to the disappearance of Claudia Kirschhoch in Jamaica, some time ago. But there is one big difference. We know who was with Natalee Holloway when she disappeared.

Rob -what else/where S&D Groen???

Not far at all from HI.   Look at the map.  

Teh Kalpoes are a surname family that have moved to aruba like 8 years ago or somethign like that,,,,,their family has a car rental apparently, but the kalpoes them selves i have no idea what they do...the younger one goes to Colegio (a school here) and the other older one works at a cybercafe

Great point.

cjm:

I fully agree with you. The text message/phone call to the brothers from Joran is key.  The report of a call back at 6:30am is huge, if it happened.  That might suggest Joran handled things on his own during the night.  However, I have not seen a reliable report on the 6:30am call.

Did the brothers say what time the text message came in from Joran in their report?

By the way, Natalee's dad and wife will be on MSNBC at 8:15am, I'm in Mountain Time so adjust your time accordingly.

yeah, but we have no "evidence" and NOTHING 2 keep them from walkin (and they will). there is no "legal" remedy.

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24982

THis site has a story of a girl in Aruba (several years ago) who also had a run in with a local dutch boy.

JOrans house is FAR from the HI to walk I live in the neighbor hood next to him , once we walked to the marriott (fartehr down from the HI) and walking it took us about 2 1/2 hours.....on bycicle it tooks us about 1 hour

s & d groene....big dutch political entity or what wiz??? I just looked it up but only info  dutch...spy-bot/wear....???

In the Claudia case the family received an anyonomous letter telling them that the bartender was with her and that he knew what happened... not saying its exactly the same, just is familiar.. no clues, no body and a tainted investigation with a coverup

Okay, not to offend, but I really do have a hard time subscribing to this and I'll tell you why.  First of all you talk about this like it is a huge set-up and these boys are experienced.  Before I can buy in to this I really would like to know what other women are missing.  If this is such a lucrative business and these boys are experienced enough to pull this off without a hitch, who else have they done this with.  Secondly, while I agree that Natalee is a beautiful young woman, beautiful young women are raped and killed everyday.  Beauty has nothing to do with it, and then again has everything to do with it if they wanted her and she said no.  Happens all the time.  My last point is that although they don't look smart enough and they are young and some have a problem with them being able to pull a murder and it's cover-up off in such a short time but I don't think any of us can relate to being in that situation.  I believe if they killed her on accident and went into "self-preservation" mode then it is entirely possible that they did it.  They had to have been thinking about what would happen to them if they got caught.  They have lived on the island for years.  They would know where to take a body and limit the chances of it being discovered.  And remember that they had days to cover up and destroy evidence and correct mistakes.  Don't forget that.  Most people don't have days to do that.

And he was in school, supposedly, at 7:30 or 8????  That's one cold 17 year old kid.

The dad's got to be in on it.

From what MickeyJohn said,
JOHN: No, sir. He said -- what he told me [was that] on his way back up they stopped ... close to the Marriott and they dropped off the missing girl and the Dutch guy ... and he and his brother went home. And he went online, and like, after an hour later, the Dutch guy sent him a message, a text message on his cell phone, saying that when he got home he'd also go online to chat with him.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/14/cnna.john/

OK well just the fact that the dad supposedly took Joran out of the country (or on some short trip) after the first release.  Even if he didn't know anything.  Maybe Joran took whatever evidence (drugs - whatever) with him.

Dad is big polis man,  and sons dad owns huge shipping company???
hmmmmm......wiz?
aruba girl???
Tom r u looking this up??

??????? the only thing that pops up is "search and destroy spyware remover" written in germany r netherlands. great app, eye use it on my confusers

Thank you!!!!  We have been speculating and working on false information for days!!   :D

I read that the father took the younger brother for a trip before all this happened, he came the day after coincidently or due to the incident.  Please verify this ... I doubt that Joran left aruba since Memorial day.

they dont have a shipping company

Rob,

Even though I think the crime is simple, I don't think the present situation with lawyers, interrogators and law enforcement is simple at all.  Why not a confession?  Prior to professional interrogators arriving recently I'm betting there was little intense questioning....since the pros arrived a few days ago we've seen more action and real investigation since the case started.  It also appears the FBI is taking a somewhat larger role.

I do think we'll have a confession.  As good investigators have said, it does take time to conduct well planned and shrewd interviews playing one suspect off the other.

Plus, they're all lawyered up....

The biggest break is we know they've turned on one another.  That is HUGE....it's only a matter of time.

s & d groene....big dutch political entity or what wiz??? I just looked it up but only info  dutch...spy-bot/wear....???[/quote]

??????? the only thing that pops up is "search and destroy spyware remover" written in germany r netherlands. great app, eye use it on my confusers[/quote]

thanks....not shipping co but interesting....this hides trax 4 u/confuses??

thanx-
maybe by now I am going nuts
what is new there??

It looks like a mile and a half on the map and a straight shot from the hotel row.  Seems like a long time to walk a mile and a half.  Do people do much walking on Aruba?  

b

absolutely NOTHING im going nuts...apparently they want to keep the press as much out of this as possible becuase they are turjnign thigns around...everyinfo they give the media in the US they turn it aroun d in some weird way and make it "sound like something else"...so elts see dont worry ill be posting as soon as I here anythign you cant understand! hahahhaha
keep me informed with what happens on TV!

Thankyou.

:oops: Perhaps I got stories mixed up - I was under the impression that like right after, the dad took Joran somewhere.  Maybe it was in fact the younger brother.  But then it would also be interesting to find out WAS it AFTER and how close are Joran and his younger bro.  ???????

Please let me know - I will be signing on & off since I also am at the old 9 - 5  :x

How far is Montana from Holiday Inn, some peeps say it a mile from the hotels, some near Hooiberg?

So someone of family may be involved in shipping, we don't know it...I heard it from a friend 2 days ago.

I dont disagree w u but eye think mine will be bourne out in time. I grew up on sum mean streets in Alabama and Tenneessee and have sum experience w/ low lifes and watt they will do.

I think Joran and Valentijn (?) are very close.. the mother said that the younger brother was so distraught he had to sleep with the parents..

NO as to my knowledge ( I wil check again) their are no Suriname families involved w/ shipping here.......they are mostly in the car rental ....the surinam community here is not too big

I think Joran and Valentijn (?) are very close.. the mother said that the younger brother was so distraught he had to sleep with the parents..[/quote]

OMG!!! And that kid looked a little old to be sleeping with his parents. :roll:

COMPANZI - I apologize - I did hit the "quote" button on that - don't know what the heck happened.  

Talk to all later.

Has anyone really determined what the two boy's father does?  Apparently people are saying that he does NOT own a car-rental company or a shipping company.

So what does he do?

I do beleive that the the Slut's father has a lot more to lose than just a son.  If greed and selfishness run in this family, I think that the father Slut would cover anything his son did to cover his own ass.

apparently theirs a radio channel www.voiceofalabama.com and they have a program to boycott aruba!

the whole vd sloot family is creepy, we can all agree on that...

does anyone know what happened to aruba girl? i heard she wouldnt be coming back here ,, any truth to that?

Yes, I think we do all agree on that.

americaninaruba, are you listening to Top95 now?  Seems to be breaking news.


Teo! :D

Top 95 transmitting now..papiamento though...

Teo

i think that radio station is from that  wicth DEE FINE!! she was on the O'reilyu factor yesterday night.........................nobody could stand her i mean just look at the name freaking lady sounds like a porn star and i heard from a source that her son partakes in substance abuse as well (but that i cannot verify)

(http://www.palmbeacharuba.nl/afb/aruba_map.gif)

Montana is a neighborhood in Noord, Aruba.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/wireStory?id=853795&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

She was here last night and assured us there wasn't anything keeping her away except her life.  lol.  I don't think she has deserted us.

thanx dragon...

so what is the breaking news?

I'm thinking that the PD never had any intent to search by the marriot. The "something bad happened" story came about sometime before the guard was released and subsequently told the Marriot story.  I'm thinking the PD knew the Marriot story before, but had other stronger suspicions. Public pressure, however, forced the PD to do the search.

But I'm also thinking that the guard story was planted and that what he said is not what he actually heard.

A tourist reported yester day that he heard some yelling for help near Eagle Beach, coincidently come beach guard saw and hear the same thing.. the person was very far but after search nothing was found.  No one has yet reported missing person.  Strong currents or under toe does exist so the paper says..  www.diarioaruba.com

There were two radio "personalities" on the news last night and one was calling for a boycott.  I can understand how the people of this community would be shaken up and might not want to travel to Aruba at this time, but speaking for myself,  We are leaving for Aruba in August, this is our 7th trip to the island.

Yes and I found her to be quite rude and to be spouting a lot of "facts" that were not facts.  Not real impressed.

she is around-not today...too busy may be looking for cheese?

breaking news top 95.1  please americaninaruba translate for those who doesnt know the language................................mi tambe kier sa whats going on thanks

Arubagirl, I have some questions about Jurans Father and Mother:

Is the mother a teacher?
What is the fathers real status is he a professor a judge or what?
What level is he in the gov't
Are they rich or just middle class
Do they have a mansion, from the news it does not look like it
Did Juran live with them in the house or in a separate apartment attached to the house.
Do you know them? what are they like?
Many rumors, I would just like to get the facts

........

cheese is a smelly business :x

Come on, lets follow the breaking news stuff and worry about this other later.

I understand she is a teacher, the father is not a judge, sorta a member of the judicial, and he even failed the judge bar exam or something similar. I'd say fairly high tho...looked middle close, seen their house? Joran lived in the Maid house, granny apt whatever...from reading the profile on tickle, Joran seem typical teenager coming of age...Id say very american even...

where can i listen to the breaking news? can you listen to it>?

Djtaylor, Teo has the radio link in his signature --



Click on Top95 in the upper right corner.

No, but someone just asked for a translation.

Underneath all the layers of this particular onion, I feel certain this is at it's core.

is there anything happening today....

thanks

To cjm: I know that you are quoting Mickey John, who claimed that Deepak Kalmoe told him that they dropped off Jaron and Natalee and that Jaron sent him a text message from his cell phone one hour later.

My response: Mickey John may be telling the truth, but there is no way that we should assume that Deepak Kalmoe was telling Mickey John the truth.

Without the Kalmoe brothers, Jaron had no ride home. So, the brothers were part of the crime.

i hate PC i need my MAC back  i cant here the news on my comp for some reason (top 95) please let me know what whent on if you can thanks if not i will wait and see what everybody is comenting to find out :0)

/***********
HARRY:
resumen of the last 24 hours:
yesterday we moved alot behind the lighthouse w. a group of people we serached without getting naything.....when we were their their was a weird helicopter flying low...then later at 5.00pm we were at noord at the police station were VD STRATEN awas comign out we asked him ....he said everythign is the same he cant say anytnhing whether shes dead or alive...and he said theirs a helicopter from the US checking to see where their can be holes that could have been dug recently and itwas a computerized computer, its only a few weeks more before he goes on vacation and retires...they cant have anythign yet...pother info......we have concetrated too much ont he locals, but that doesnt mean their can be poeple form the extretior on this, but VDSTRATEN says he cant say anything, yester day they thought should strat interogating the mother and other families on teh island .....but nothign nothing about NH neither info of her being dead or alive...any more info I can get ill let you know....
EDMOND:we are waiting for other collegues that might have more info, this news takes lots of time of journalists and is a long one already, long nights no sleep and days with no sleep...we want to give words of strentgh to local presss that are doing good job at this ....and tnx for cooperating with us
JUANCHO:we are very much into the local pressa nd also we have freidns of the US press, and we spoke of the bad part of the press is that WE have to go otu and get the news, we have to be everywhere and do everything wherever we see somethign "going on" and we need to processit......this makes it easier for speculations because nothign is given to us from the officials.things are bigger than they appear...
.EDMOND:they stopped the daily press conferences becuase they hurt more than they helped......the US press had a great "dinner" with those beucase till this day they are making fun of the information given......but we must say we are sure theyare doing a job, their are many local policve doing their job and they have lots of pressure....the last information we got is that thier is absolutely no idea or clue as to where NH is......the youngster say they did makeup a story but the story was to just as youngsters to make up to not have themselves involved in this......also they heard JvdS said that its true he stayed w/ NH at the fishermans huts to swim, and NH went to HI and he walked home after that...again this is form an undisclosed informant so its NOTHING CONFIMRED NOR SAID BY ANY OPFFICAIL....this is just a informative of mine that gave me that information........I have to say that this makes this at this moment that JvdS is one of the main suspects, thats why we went over to serach his house completely but this produced NOTHING....talking to a close ferwind of JvdS that she would put both her hands in fire for JvdS that he IS innocent, hes not a person to commit a crime, as to muyrder a person, hes not that kind of person, hes not a person to push any relationship, if you liek to be with him fine if no tthen fine too, he doesnt push you to do nythign....she knows him for 10 years, and says she will put her hands in fire for him knowing he is INNOCENT.....
The anger managment thing I have no info about that.......look everyione has a small anger problem you can ttell me that you dont get angry buecase i get far away from you when your mad!hahahhaa, but that doesnt mean your capable of commiting a crime

Yes from Holiday Inn to Montana, is very far, no way no how did he walk back home..

is n e body trying 2 tell me they wood kill a women they could SELL for $50,000+??  COME ON, think about it......my hormones aint never been that strong, u could buy a lot o partying with that kind of money-legally 2. wood u burn a suitcase full of money?




"breaking news" "panties" "n the next 24 hours" "sharks" ALL b/s diversions and dead ends. "it is only w/ the heart that on may see rightly, waht is essential is invisible to the eye"

But I'm also thinking that the guard story was planted and that what he said is not what he actually heard.[/quote]

no mickey told police what he knew FROM  deepak>>>
mICKEY DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MARRIOT/
HE SAID NEVER WENT BACK TO HOTEL
KNOWING HIM I TAKE THIS TO MEAN HOTEL AREA IN GENERAL...LOOKING AT MARRIOT WAS B/S

It is over, Folks! Two weeks have gone by. No body has been found. Everybody is lawyered-up. No one will willingly submit to polygraphic questioning at this point, and valuable forensic evidence has been degraded in Aruba's tropical environment. That means that the game is over and that the three suspects will walk. I hate to say it, but they have succeeded in beating the rap.

I think there are many murders out there on beautiful people that could have been sold for a lot of money.  Just because she is beautiful does not mean he didn't get mad and kill her or accidentally kill her by giving her drugs or something.  Beautiful people are killed everyday.

S&D Groene are Shasta and Dylan Groene the 2 children who's mother, brother and mothers boyfriend were murdered in Idaho about a month ago.  Shasta and Dylan are missing, apparently taken by the murderers.  I don't know why it's being brought up in this forum.

GOOD POINT....JORANS PARENTS MIGHT BE RICH, BUT ALL THAT PARTYING IS LIKELY NOT WITHIN A STUDENTS ALLOWANCE....

You know it is still very possible that she is alive on the island.  I don't know why someone would be holding her, but its certainly possible, and obviously the police haven't been searching private residences.  Remember, Jessica Lunsford was at the house of her captor all that time, and no one knew it.  So it's certainly possible that she's alive on the island and being held against her will.  

This would make sense given the brothers statement that they expected her to turn up somewhere.  

Of course, I still think that it is a longshot.

aruba has jerked my chain 4 the last time.......NH is probably alive (if
she's minding).....but she ain't n or around aruba....what seems like random
events is really a well oiled machine and it is ABOVE THE LAW...this is
white slavery territory we're n....no "rules".....I no the game now....and
we ALL need to deal w/ it.......if there was no internet I wood no only watt
the mainstream media tells me (laughable) and b OK......but I no more
now....

the scam is this....the dutchguy is the setup man. he takes the "mark" and
plays kissy kissy wink wink all week and plants the "trust me" hook.....he
sets em up and the brothers carry em 2 the boat......after they seperate the "mark" from "the herd" and away we go......no body ever found means no murder conviction.....they do their "time" and are released........what a gig......foolproof......I feel for the people caught up in this twisted vortex....the ONLY way her parents will ever see her is 2 pay 2 have her back and it's very slim odds because that wood b an admission of guilt by the pirates of the caribbean.....u just don't kill women like NH....unless u can throw away $20,000, $50,000, $100,000.........way 2 valuable......the abducted women cooperate or die....real simple....what wood u do in their place? b honest
w/ yourself......I'm through checking EVERY headline cause it don't
matter.....I now no how it's gonna play now.....the "student"
brothers......."students" of watt and tell me about their mainland
connections.....the 3 will b released.....b honest agin.......no
evidence.....if this disturbs u, I apologize, it's just the reality of the
situation......hug ur fam, kids, friends 2 day because ur free and not in a nightmare like this......watt did NH ever do to warrant her punishment....the trio is a lot more scared of their BOSS than the law......all the king horses and all the kings men......be well

NH has been SOLD. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth is ugly and it hurts. We must deal with it though as adults and stop pretending it doesn't happen. There's BIG money playing the game. Here's an example:
You buy a blonde women (popular where everyone is dark headed) for $100,000. She could easily make you $50,000 a year for say 20 years. After 2 years she's paid for and pure profit. $50,000 x 20 years = $1,000,000.
We lead sheltered lives in the US. Painfull to think about but it happens
ALL the time. She's NOT on Aruba, look all you want. She left Aruba on a boat within an hour of leaving the bar. This is the ONLY scenario that fits all the "evidence". She was stalked from day 1, nothing accidental about it. Time will bear this out.

And your point is >>>>> give up?

americaninaruba, thanks for translating that.  From what I understood, though NOT comfirmed, Joran is now admitting the brothers did drop he and Natalee off at fisherman hut to swim but they both left there, he walking hom and her to HI.  Story changes yet again, if that is in fact what he is saying now.

I dont know how authorities possibly think they are going to find anything in that house after all this time...No way....The parents cleaned that from head to toe i am sure..again..i am not sayin in any wya that the parents are in on this cause that is just far fetched but i do think they know more than we think and are making sure nothing leaks out at this point.

Looks to be no more than 2 miles.

Noord=Joran's house

Palm Beach=Hotels

(http://infoweb2.newsbank.com/maps/Political/north%20america/ArubaP.gif)

American Aruba, could you answer my post about Juran's family???

Who is the person stating "nothing found" in house search?

Harry: we got an emial form someone important that if FBI is here already w/ dogs and divers.....why dont we do a polygraph anyways just for some help ion this??
Edmond: I asked you this but you said it cant be used as proof, but it can be used as help in a case.......ok so i dont know.....if this is able to be used then i think the FBI should already have one coming.....
Harry: the media keeps questioning the police here....but this is not this...
E: i dont think the police should get mad though they should know this is a ridicule becuase they just need a story...imagine they even have a radio w/ a boycott for aruba becuase of our police dptmnt.  tey say we have a fragil police Dept that dont know there job, well poiice i want to say that we are not the type to go to the extreitot to talk bad about the police...we trust you and pray that your doing a good job, we will defend you as long as your doing the best oyu can....listners we ask your attention:
this is a story, we are strong arubians, we need to understand their are americans that love aruba and others that are bad,........they laucnch frontal attack to aruba......you can see this in Diario pg 11.....Alabama has put aruba on Black list.....this news is one we have recieved and confirmed already                                                                               (I will ge tthe newspaper and type it over for the sight.....)...the radio is THE SOURCE 101 at birmingham alabama,,,,,aparently they hava  mornign show that has thousands of listeneres...they are runnign a intensivecmmercial against aruba, and frontal attack comeltely to boycott aruba and consider Hawaii and PRico and Florida when on vacation but PROHIBIT aruba, because of the way that the aruban police have handled the case of NH since May 30//......the discourage anyone to come to aruba t stay away....the US is not perfect but they are capabale of resolving crimes and investigatin...they have high level of crime investigaiton and resolving.......when americans want to go to an island go to hawaii...antoher unidentified group of oregon also call for a complete boycott to Aruba.,they say they do this boycott beucase the nmother of NH decalred to press because the authority are loooing for ways to portect the 3 boys beucase one is son of a judge......again the same story but yes this porogram went to FOX news yesterday, in the Oreilly show, and they spilled this news that the Alabama news boycotts aruba.........hes now going to a live taping of the Oreilly show

im sorry i was translating...what is the question......??

If you knew your child was holding something back, and possibly guilty of something serious...what would your next move be? would you cover for him.....Think about it..these parents will take every bit of information that have gotten and not let it out......I do not know if i could keep something that could possibly lead to natalee or help the authorities........i couldnt live with that guilt...

My spanish is limited, but it does sound that they are recapping events and harsh words for Fox and Bill O'R.

Edmond from TOP95 is staing nothing was found

One thing that has been bothering me about Joran... if he is such the party boy and is constantly hanging out in clubs and casinos, where are the other Americans (or tourists from anywhere) that have come in contact with him?  If this is his normal lifestyle, it seems that people would be coming out of the woodwork saying that they have met him and partied with him on the island.  I have only heard a couple of unconfirmed stories about people having met him on trips to Aruba.  Have any of you heard anything along these lines?

So its really not a matter of record that nothing was found.

IMO there are three likely scenarios.

1) Joran and Natalee were dropped off.  Joran killed her and walked home.

2) Joran and Natalee were dropped off.  Joran killed her and then called the brother's for help.

3) The three boys all were there when Natalie was killed.

If this were my child, you can bet your a-- that I would go through his room with a fine tooth comb because I would have to know for myself if there was any truth to the accusations.  The delima as a parent would be if I actually found something.  Do you turn in your own son?  I would love to sit here today and tell you that I would.  That I would turn in evidence to help Natalee's parents find their daughter.  I'll say that I would, but I have NO CLUE what that would be like.  Giving up your own child so someone else can find theirs.  I want to say I would do it.  But I just don't know.  What an impossible situation to be in.  All I can say is if it were me in her position I would have gone through his room already and if there was something there I would find it.

now they are collecting emails from poeple that would like to send to this lady on the Oreilly show last nite....even Oreilly wasnt too happy w/ her actions....let see waht happens and if anyone would liek to help send an email to this lady please email them to me

The girl alana that was on the ORiely show last ngiht that was on the trip with natalee and a friend said that they hung out (joran+Natalee) for the last couple days of the trip..and that noone saw anything unusual or anything....So this girl clearly trusted him to be hanginout with him for athe last couple days...as to why they said the didint see anythign wrong with her hangin out with him..theysaid they danced all night together..then she told alana that she wsa gon to go back to the hotel with the other group that was there...so alana said ok "assuming" that she would go back with the other group.  The was just a lot of assuming it seems..from what the two kids stated on the intereview

If older brother works at internet cafe, then he has or had access to so many computers that he could contact people with less "fear" of detection.

That is an interesting tidbit.

they are saying that what this aldy is doing is not just hurt ARuba but also all the american companies here....most of the Hotels here are American Onwed and also the restaurants...she need to understand that yes this would hurt aruba but also American COmpanies all the franchises we have here...they need to understand the US also does lots of bussiness here,,,,,,all imoprted things are like 80% from the US being theires nothign made or grown here....so boycotting us is also boycotting the US

americaninaruba  :D  thank you very much.

I love how they're slamming Dee and encouraging emails to her.  I would like to think they will upset her, but she seems to be the kind of person who can only hear herself speak.

What exactly did this Dee Fine lady say on O'Reilly?

Kelly, Dash posts here is almost a little sister to some.


The take I get is that Nat was walking with J between the two groups.  First group really though she was with the group behind.  Back group thought she was catching up to those in front.  Back group was checking a nearby club to be sure no one was left behind.  These kids were trying hard to take care of each other.

As it stands, I think the three will walk.

I'm hoping, however, that the 3 remain in custody for the 116 days and that the case will be worked on.

We do not have all the information that the PD has such as phone records, etc. So there is still a chance that there is enough information to get this resolved.  

Even if they find her dead, they will never be able to prove rape. If they do find her dead and there is no physical evidence of struggle or other foul play, the three will not be convicted of murder. Even if there is evidence, its going to be hard to pin it on them versus a separate individual(s).  If she is found alive, then other possiblities exist.

In case you didn't know, Alana posts on this board as ---.

I agree.  I hope they bombard her with emails and maybe phone calls to the radio station.  But I too think she only hears herself.

TOP95: also their are 4 missing kids in Alabama at themoment....why isnt anything being said about them??? they desreve media attention too dont htye??is this because they are not american? or becuase theiur african american? hes givnig the informatin from the alabama missing childerns foundations (or somethign like that)

She (alana) said that they dont blame the chaparones because it was clearly impossible to monitor 160 kids on the trip..she said that everyone on the trip just assumed that Natalee was with the other group..So she siad that ebcuase Natalee was so popular...the friends were like ohh she must be with so and so ..and the next group was like ohhh she must be with so and sooo..I

Yeah i realized that she was ---- when she made certain comments on the show and when i realized her IM name on AOL that she gave in your profile was the same as her name...

She was claiming that the chaparones left on a private jet or some other nonsense.  As well as trying to blame them for what happened, despite being repeatedly told that they were not conventional chaparones.

That is interesting, something I don't recall hearing before .... wonder if they have considered confiscating the computers from there to see if there's any info on them.

From what Dash said on O'Reilly last night, does that mean that Natalee was not seen in the car with Joran?  It sounds as if Natalee had fully intended to go with the "other group" -- which would seem (to me, anyway) that she was possibly "forced" into the car??

You know, I knew this would end up this way.  We have tried so hard on this board to not point fingers or place blame or get into country bashing.  I admit we have all complained about what we perceive as a lack of investigation or to slow to investigate in this case, but we have also done a lot of complaining about the US press.  I wish it wouldn't go this way.  The focus is soon going to be lost and will be all about insults and not about Natalee.

Thanks so much for translating this stuff AIA.  You do us a great service.

This is easily exposed as a lie because the first "story" was that she was dropped off at the her hotel, why say that if she walked back to the hotel? They are trying to cover something up and they are not doing a very good job of it.

I'm really thinking that the Aruban police will give in and let the FBI do a little good cop/bad cop on these three kids and a more cut'n'dried story will result.  

It's time to lay this thing to rest.

they keep repeating the audio of the show of O'reilly

.........

NH is NOT on or near Aruba so they wont b finding n e body. as I said from the get go, no body, no conviction, they will walk (w/ the money)

Sadly we have many missing children in America.  That is why we now have the Amber alert system and it has helped.

Many of these cases do involve noncustodial parental kidnapping though.  

Not all of them.

We put their faces on milk cartons and at the entrances to Walmart.  

Every now and then we get an Elizabeth Smart miracle.

But I think the issue many Americans have in this case is the time.

Police knew Nat was last seen with J and it too long to keep him in custody.  

Plus the size of Aruba makes us infer (correctly or not) that the police are of the quality you would find in a mid sized town in our country--and therefore they would lack the training and forensics to investigate properly.

We watch CSI and have come to believe that fornesics can solve just about any case.

All of this contributes.

I'm loving it Teo.  Anyone know how big a mindspring inbox is?

Ya i remember alana saying that she was walking inbetween groups and stuff..and i am fully aware that they made every effort to make sure everyone got back ok..and know they went to each bar making sure to gather everyone up.. Just unfortunate thats all...I mean..after Natalee said im goin back with this group...im sure that is all they needed to know..yeah know..they didnt think it was in her nature to just leave..so of course they are going to assume she in fact would be headin back to the hotel with the other group..that is why its so strange..that she would just be like.... Ok i change my mind ill head back later..and not tell anyone yeah know.... I wanna know what roomate was thinkgin when she never showed up late into the night.....Did she think NH was just crashin in another room or something?

From what the kid said on the interview last night..he siad that he did not see her get into the car...Noone did i guess....bc you coudlnt see the street from inside the club or somethin........... i jut dont buy that she would just get into the car and not tell anyone.

The talk of the possibility of NH being sold/taken off the island has always crossed my mind.  Be it that i pray she's alive or simply i find this theory believable?  The argument "where are all the other missing girls they've taken / sold " is valid but, and this may seem too coincidental, maybe she is the first.  These boys ARE young so it's not likely they would have been doing this a lot.  There was speculation that Horan had a gambling debt to pay?  Would this lead him to do something like this?  
I doubt all of this as i subscribe to the thinking that there would be others too but it remains a possibility in my mind.  I will say though, the longer this goes on with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the way of evidence (to our knowledge), the more i think she's off the island.  No matter how well these kids know the island and where they could have possibly hid her, we can't be expected to believe that with all the technology, FBI methods, fact these are kids, etc, something would have come of it by now.......... :?

There were 3 roomates and they thought Nat must have crashed in another room with some other friends.

Non-Americans need to understand that a large, large number of morning radio shows in the US are aimed purely at entertaining the masses--even when the top story might be a missing/murdered young lady from their own state.  

I know that very, very few Americans will actually boycott a vacation destination like Aruba...in fact, we might even play a little golf on an Aruban course while we search for the real killer of Nicole Simpson!  You know?

I am the one crying out in the wilderness, I am the 1%.

aruba has jerked my chain 4 the last time.......NH is probably alive (if
she's minding).....but she ain't n or around aruba....what seems like random
events is really a well oiled machine and it is ABOVE THE LAW...this is
white slavery territory we're n....no "rules".....I no the game now....and
we ALL need to deal w/ it.......if there was no internet I wood no only watt
the mainstream media tells me (laughable) and b OK......but I no more
now....

the scam is this....the dutchguy is the setup man. he takes the "mark" and
plays kissy kissy wink wink all week and plants the "trust me" hook.....he
sets em up and the brothers carry em 2 the boat......after they seperate the "mark" from "the herd" and away we go......no body ever found means no murder conviction.....they do their "time" and are released........what a gig......foolproof......I feel for the people caught up in this twisted vortex....the ONLY way her parents will ever see her is 2 pay 2 have her back and it's very slim odds because that wood b an admission of guilt by the pirates of the caribbean.....u just don't kill women like NH....unless u can throw away $20,000, $50,000, $100,000.........way 2 valuable......the abducted women cooperate or die....real simple....what wood u do in their place? b honest
w/ yourself......I'm through checking EVERY headline cause it don't
matter.....I now no how it's gonna play now.....the "student"
brothers......."students" of watt and tell me about their mainland
connections.....the 3 will b released.....b honest agin.......no
evidence.....if this disturbs u, I apologize, it's just the reality of the
situation......hug ur fam, kids, friends 2 day because ur free and not in a nightmare like this......watt did NH ever do to warrant her punishment....the trio is a lot more scared of their BOSS than the law......all the king horses and all the kings men......be well

NH has been SOLD. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth is ugly and it hurts. We must deal with it though as adults and stop pretending it doesn't happen. There's BIG money playing the game. Here's an example:
You buy a blonde women (popular where everyone is dark headed) for $100,000. She could easily make you $50,000 a year for say 20 years. After 2 years she's paid for and pure profit. $50,000 x 20 years = $1,000,000.
We lead sheltered lives in the US. Painfull to think about but it happens
ALL the time. She's NOT on Aruba, look all you want. She left Aruba on a boat within an hour of leaving the bar. This is the ONLY scenario that fits all the "evidence". She was stalked from day 1, nothing accidental about it. Time will bear this out.

TOP95 is lookgin to come up with 1000 emails, please send me anything you might have if you would like to participate in this to send an email to Dee of the radio show, the lady who spoke on Oreilly last night

[/i][/color]


I would just ignore Dee Fine, though that can be hard to do. KKM had it right last night about her. Dee is a real nut case and a publicity hound. If you saw her on TV last night that came through pretty well.

americaninaruba, do they have to be clean?  Can I say, Dee, you ignorant slut?

A lot of people probably didn't even go to sleep that night. Think about it, last night in paradise a long trip back with plenty of time to sleep on the plane. I'm sure a lot of the kids didn't even go back to their rooms that night.

Unfortunately that is probably what she, Dee, wants is the attention. If you are going to make accusations that this point two weeks into the story one would think that they would have common facts like who flew on what plane correct? If the do not and only want to throw out sensationalism pandering to people's emotions I hardly think that it is constructive.

Granted, the police is my estimation have done some puzzling investigations. The only thing I hesitate on is that many of us from the US look through it from an American criminal/legal way; the Dutch law seems to be so drastically different.

More effort should be spent on constructively finding Natalee one way or the other than a radio station pandering for a boycott for rating. Just my opinion.

Jane Curtain would be proud...

Yes, Kelly.  I beleive that is what the roommates assumed.  They could have also assumed that she was with another group that was up all night.  If I remember correctly, it was also those same roommates that pointed out that she was not present before they left for the airport and that she never came back from the night before.

American Aruba maybe you could answer these

hahhahahahhahaa hahahahha i cant stop laughing mistique mama! hahahaha
no they are asking for something short though so they read it if they see a whoel page they wont read anything! hahahahha everyones staring at me at work im laughing so loud! :lol:

wwizard, I think that we all see your thoughts as a possibility.  I don't think anyone believes with 100% certainty that she was not kidnapped and sold.  But there are also arguments in the other direction.  Just because a body has not been found does not mean it isn't there.  And just because they are teenagers doesn't mean they couldn't hide a body well.  I have read about plenty of cases where a body wasn't even hidden, someone walked away from home or left a bar drunk and somehow ended up dead.  Authorities searched the area and talked to witnesses for a year or more and some guy out walking his dog walks up on a body and it happens to be that missing person in the same place that people searched a year before.  It happens all the time.  So, while I think there is a possibility that she was sold, there is just as likely, if not more likely, a possibility that these boys killed her and she is on that island.

So Dash knew NH pretty well, but what about NH's very best friend's on the trip- I'm sure she must have had a few very tight knit friends- have you heard anything from them

..........

All suspects now telling the same story according to msnbc. Apparently Joran changed to the brothers story.

(http://www.thelms.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/082.gif) I'm in!!!

It's also possible that when the roommates got back, they not only assumed NH was with the other group, but they may have simply fell asleep / passed out from being tired from a week of partying and fun in the sun and simply assumed she'd pop into the room at any point.  I heard a lot of them were up late so maybe they thought she was with others still having a good time on her last night.  In the very least, if they thought she was with Joran, they too prob trusted him somewhat.  I mean, if this kid really had gained her trust over a couple of days, you can't imagine these other kids thinking some 17 year old kid was going to actually harm her???  I know we say look out for your friends but were they really to believe this kid would do something as bad as what seems to have happened???

Arubagirl, I have some questions about Jurans Father and Mother:

Is the mother a teacher? YES
What is the fathers real status is he a professor a judge or what? NO,student judge
What level is he in the gov't ...NOT IN GOVT
Are they rich or just middle class ...MIDDLE CLASS
Do they have a mansion, from the news it does not look like it ...HELL NO!
Did Juran live with them in the house or in a separate apartment attached to the house. ....APARTMENT LIKE 5 FEET FROM MAIN HOUSE, THE HJOUSE IS LIEK IN 3 OR 4 PIECES AND ALL AROUND A MIDDLE TERRACE
Do you know them? what are they like? ...IVE MET THE MOTHER IN THE PAST SHES WEIRD LIEK VERY NERVOUSE PERSON I THINK BECUASE SHES RAISING 3 BOYS BY HERSLEF AND WORKIGN AND ALL, HER HUSBAND IS MORE IN HOLLAND AND CURACO FOR THE LAST 5 YEAR S BEACUSE OF HIS STUDIES

HOPE THIS HELPS YOUR INFO

Not true.

Any communication could be traced back to that Internet cafe, thus the computer users could be narrowed down. Who thinks we are anonymous using the Internet in this day and age? I'm not saying it's a conspiracy but the Internet is not anonymous ever There have been many many crimes solved because people thought they were anonymous but they were not, people that probably wouldn't have been caught otherwise.

The powers that be could find out who 12 monkeys is and be at my door in less than 1 hour.

...hold on someones at my door...brb

Kelly - The following information was posted on riehlworldview.com (Dan's really done a great job with this as well):

"Assuming she had simply stayed the night in another room with other friends, Natalee's roommates gathered up her belongings - luggage, purse, cell phone, and passport, bringing them down to the now crowding lobby in preparation for their flight home.  As the bus began to load, adults began to ask questions of the seniors as to why the missing Natalee might not be there. Her friends stated that she had left Carlos and Charlies with a local boy."

The last sentence indicates someone knew she left with Joran.

Like i have said numerous times......................If all these searches of homes, clothes, belongings, etc, was done right away...we would haev something!! I just dont see much hope in finding evidence to convict these kids after all this time, more reason to why i believe the kids are holding out as long as they can..becasue they know...at some point (in the aruban gov.) they will have to be released..due to lack of evidence.....So unless they break down and confess......We are lookin at more dead ends, and just a bunch of rumors....theories, and speculation!

Fox is saying that the search turned up evidence.

SORRY GUYS I HAVE TO GO DELIVER SOMEHTING ILL BE BACK IN 30MIN! PLEASE SEND ANY MSG DIRECTED TO ME TO MY EMAIL! THANK YOU!   AMERICANINARUBA@HOTMAIL.COM

Bill,

Is the mother a teacher? YES, INT sch/Aruba-14 yrs, Art

What is the fathers real status is he a professor a judge or what? Studying to be.. had flunked exam..
 
What level is he in the gov't  IDK

Are they rich or just middle class MIddle Cl

Do they have a mansion, from the news it does not look like it
NO

SL

PS.. Does Natalee have siblings?

http://findsabrina.org/

The only reason for this post is the earlier comment that seemed to think we don't know we have a missing child problem in this country.

We know we do.  I have been following the above case for three years.  At least they know the child is alive.


Some of these cases never get resolved.

Fox siad they came up with evidence? Until its confirmed i cant believe anything ya know.............keep me informed ..im at work so can only access computer

DT,

How old is Natalee's brother? Does he live w/ the Twitty-Holloways? Is he a step or blood brother?

SL

I SEND AN EMAIL TO AMERICANINARUBA@HOTMAIL.COM
so she can send it to DEE Fine, what this woman talked about yesterday realy agrivated me about aruba and about the shaparounes;

Ok let me clarify this.  They said this

"REport: Search gives more pieces to the puzzle"  

So fox may not even be sticking to the story.

This brings up and interesting thought.  If the roomies woke up and NH wasn't there, don't you think they'd have called the others to see if she was with them?  I believe they DID know she left with Joran, at least some of them.  The roomies packed her gear up surely in hopes she'd meet them in the lobby or at the very least, the airport!

I agree about Valentijn. I've been studying the family..and it seems Valentijn has a girlfriend and is very attached to her. In the pics he always has the same girl..and Joran always a different one. If you read Valentijns site it seems he is a funny..easy going kid.

Younger, either in Jr High or Middle School.  I know she has some step sibilings as well not sure how many or what ages, but I did hear her father mention it.  Other than that i don't know anything about them.

dont listen 2 CNNBCBSFOX, they'll destroy ur reasoning powers. 2 them its ratings, factual news is secondary

i d say that this is prolly true, i had two siblings and my father was not around much, my mom worked all the time... i was not the most well behaved person...she prolly is a wreck..

Ok thanks...Can you let me know of any new information please! If Fox says anything!!!!!

DT,

I googled it. Natalee evidently has a brother and a step brother. Not sure of their ages. Thx

SL

I don't see a lot of difference in Aruba's handling of this case and the way Chandra Levy's disappearance was treated in Washington D.C.  I think I remember Gary Condit being given special treatment because he was a US Congressman.   IMO, we (US citizens) look rather ridiculous throwing so much blame and shame on Aruba when we have so many skeletons in our own closet.  

Wizard, you just keep my heading shaking from side to side with your sex slave theory!  Where are all of these slaves?

For the comments earlier about a 17 year old being capable of killing someone and then going to school.  We have a case in Chapel Hill, NC - much more affluent and better educated than the area in AL, where a teenager killed both his mother and father in their $700,000 home, shut their bodies  up in their bedroom, went to the prom, brought a small group back and had an after prom party, started staying in a hotel in Durham, went to school and may have continued with his life but an out of state relative called the police because they hadn't heard from the parents in a couple of weeks.   The age of a true sociopath is not really that important.    You can read about this case at the heraldsun.com - Adam Sapokowski - that spelling is more than likely wrong.

He is only 15 years old, give him a couple years!

Hi,

Does Joran have 2 brothers?  I thought he just had the younger one.

If there is a second brother, does he live in Aruba?

TIA

Morning All, (or Afternoon)

Are we still awaiting the rulings from tee Judge?

Did someone mention the VDS' have a yacht?  
With the MSM and your theories I wonder if he(Horan) was able to take our Natalee by boat somewhere since the map makes it look virtually impossible to cover so much territory in such a short time??

I did a search to see how freely boats can come and go and I found an Intelligence report from the DEA dated Sept. 2003. If any1 is interested in learning a little more PM me. I understand ppl are getting virus attacks from links so just let me know...thnx

Joran's parents do not own a yacht

Her brother is a rising sophomore I believe...he's older than my brother, but he wasn't at the HS this year, so he has to be in that grade. And her step brother graduated 2 years ago. She has step-cousins (I guess that's what you'd call them) in our grade.

Thanks American in Aruba , this clears a lot of the mis information

I too have studied the VDS family. It seems there is a younger bro (that's my deduction after examining many family photos) The youngest looks to be about 11, a blonde Pillsbury Doughman. The there's Joran (17) and Valentjin, who looks to me to be about 15.

SL

americaninaruba is in the car right now and checking  the area  3 blocks away from JORANS HOME and shes going to HI and the distance is aproximatly 6.5 kilometers, and apperantly in the month of june alone there are more then 3 children missing in the state of alabama and the police has no information on there disapearance so why is it THEY ARE STRESSING SO MUCH ON THE ARUBIAN POLICE DEPARTMENT(the alabama media) when they should be exposing these children also? or is it because there race or socialstatus that nothing is beeing done for them, in aruba there is only one case and in alabama there more then three reported children who knows how many adults just in the month of june alone :0)
just and observation ;0)

...........

Check out these sites r.e. human slavery & trafficking:
http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/
http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/global_issues/human_trafficking.html

The issue is not made up.

my friend was murdered last year while i was in aruba, by his room mate and the room mate went to work the next day. with my buddies body still in the house all day.. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04196/346094.stm


see for your self...

here is the follow up.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05124/498672.stm

believe me it can happen

Ok sorry, I just have to say it.
They aren't better educated than us, I can tell you that!
Possibly more affluent though...but just possibly.
I just have to stick up for my town...and my school. They work us HARD and we get, by far, the best education in the state. We're usually a top 10 school, top 100 at the least.

I dont pay n e attention 2 the manistream media-corporate driven-truth secondary. Ive found that one can learn a tremendous amount frum the net, tho. One thing Ive learned is to follow the money trail.

Make mine with extra pepperoni and no anchovies please.

Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
americaninaruba is in the car right now and checking the area 3 blocks away from JORANS HOME and shes going to HI and the distance is aproximatly 6.5 kilometers, and apperantly in the month of june alone there are more then 3 children missing in the state of alabama and the police has no information on there disapearance so why is it THEY ARE STRESSING SO MUCH ON THE ARUBIAN POLICE DEPARTMENT(the alabama media) when they should be exposing these children also? or is it because there race or socialstatus that nothing is beeing done for them, in aruba there is only one case and in alabama there more then three reported children who knows how many adults just in the month of june alone :0)
just and observation ;0)

It says on his Tickle site he is 19

I know the issue is not made up but the likelihood is much greater that she was raped and murdered.  If Aruba is such a center of sex slave trade, why in the world hasn't this been made more public considering parents are sending their children there to party?

He lied! Alot of these web spaces require that you be 18, many kids lie about their age just so they can set up a site.

i agree with you on this,,,,,,,,,,

wwizard--

     Could Joran use 'trade' Natalee to pay off casino debts?

Good morning all!  After catching up on my reading and putting bits and pieces together, something is seriously nagging at me.  Please read, think about and see what you can come up with.  These are all observations from wwizard, Another K in Texas, Friend of Mickey John, West Coast guy, etc.

1.  Put some (not all, some) of wwizard's theory in place.
2.  Add in FOMJ's thoughts re: polis (which I think could be a real possibility).
3.  Throw in pop VDSloot (does he really have friends on the inside?).
4.  Now you may have the 3 boys, pop and an official involved.

(insert 6:30 am cell phone call)

5.  Does the older brother have any shady contacts from being on the internet during his spare time at work?
6.  Does Joran have any huge gambling debts?
7.  Did pop actually take Joran out of the country or could it have been someone else?

Those are my notes.  I truly think that at least some of these pieces fit together in a way no one has looked at before, so I am trusting "you all" to pokes holes and/or piece together.

I am sorry, I didn't mean to step on any toes.  I don't have time to give you specific statistics right at the moment, but check out NC's educational ranking compared to Alabama.  Chapel Hill has the highest rating for public schools in NC and the University of North Carolina is located there.  I am positive the ranking for UNC is much higher than any university in Alabama.  If I am wrong, then I apologize but I am 99% certain, I'm right!

Which news organization/source is reporting that Joran has once again changed his story to those of the other teens?

You probably are, but I just have a lot of school pride still...not trying to be obnoxious...I'm just a loudmouth sometimes!

I have to echo the quote from MBHS05 - I grew up in Birmingham and lived  in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area for a number of years and let me tell you from a $$ aspect, the 2 communities are equal. The only difference being is that Chapel Hill is a college town and Mountain Brook is not.

The top95 radio station

This is an aflluent subdivision of Birmingham, but not all the people there are filthy reach.  There are just nice houses and then there are mansions, Natalee's house is just a nice house.    The reason Mt Brook is considered affluent is because the property taxes are extreme, for example on Natalee's house which is probably valued at $250,000, they probably pay $5,000 a year in property taxes which the city puts back in their school system.  It's the best school system in the State of Alabama and people will sacrifice to live there just for that.  The city will not annex new property because they want to protect their school system. That's not saying that there are not a lot of rich people who live in Mtn. Brook, there are.   It's 5 minutes from downtown Birmingham, very convenient for executives, but not everybody who lives there is influential or filthy rich.

Bottom line is Birmingham is a very close knit city.  If one of ours is in need, somebody will try to help.  We care about each other.  I live in Vestavia Hills, Al, which joins Mtn Brook city limits, I have a big yellow bow on my mailbox.  I don't know this family, but I would do anything I could to help them.   This city is a family and we act accordingly.   Thank goodness our business community is willing to share their resources with anybody in need, like the Twitty family.

I've very proud of my Birmingham, in the way we've come together on this.   Make fun of us as you will, but we're proud to be here and we continue to pray, support and cry with Natalee's family. :)

Did you look at the list of countries on that site?  Sex slavery isn't the first thing that comes to mind for most of them.  I'm not saying Aruba is some huge sex trafficking area, but it's only 20 miles from Venezuela, which IS. Also, it's the Caribbean it's pretty easy to come and go undetected or unsuspected there. It's a more laid back lifestyle. I just don't think you can summarily dismiss the possibility because it's not 'advertised' as a sex trade area and because you haven't heard about it.

MSNBC reporter said it not too long ago.

Am I the only one that this comment rubs the wrong way?  Just because you are from the middle of nowhere in the South does not mean you are less educated and does not neccassarily mean you are less affluent.  I grew up in MS near Meridian, not even in a town and believe it or not we had a school and I went there and learned something. Now I live in the RTP area so I am very familiar with this specific case.    I'm sick of people thinking the South equates to uneducated.

In RN school I was treated like an idiot by some people because I was from MS.  They ate their words when I graduated with better grades, more clinical awards than any student in our class and at the top 5% of the class grade wise.   Wish I could have seen their faces when I passed boards and two of them didn't!

OK, over my tantrum....LOL

EXCELLENT point! I have been thinking that there ought to be an APB out for any American tourists that might have encountered Joran previouslly so that we can get some type of modus operandi established, like has he tried to get girls to ride off with him somewhere etc. WHY this hasn't been done by the media here in the US, MUCH LESS law enforcement, I can't believe.

Yeah I'm beginning to see more and more ribbons outside of Mountain Brook and it's awesome! It's crazy because it seems like we're rather competitive sometimes...but that's probably because everyone loves football so much, haha. Anyway it's great to see people outside of here paying attention to this case, too!

I like the analogy.  Affair with Congressman, smear her reputation, lackluster search, they find her bones a year later and arrest a Salvadoran illegal for the crime.  It is possible that a third party took advantage of Natalee as she stumbled her way back to her hotel under the influence of something.  But where did she disappear to?   We need some expertise on ocean currents and prevailing winds.

YUP-WIZ I'M WITH YOU....

WHAT DID BUDDAH SAY ABOUT "KNOWING""....

Okay, the only thing I think I can say for sure is that Joran's father was already out of town and came back when this happened.  I don't think he "took" anyone out of town.  I don't know the answers to the rest of it.  While I do think there is a possibility of this being a kidnapping/human slavery incident I just can't really buy into it.  If the human trading business is so big in Aruba as to have police and government officials involved then why do we only hear about Natalee?  Even Amy Bradley was not in Aruba.  What I read about that case is that they were near Aruba but had not even docked there and that was years ago.  Do I believe that the police were reluctant to investigate Joran because of who he is, yes I do.  But do I believe that there is human trade going on involving government officials and police that somehow relates also to a teenagers gambling habits?  No, I can't susbcribe to that.  Show me evidence of more missing women (no matter what nationality) from Aruba and maybe I can take a bigger look at it.

so now Joran is on his third story?? How incriminating is that? Of course he is guilty and knows what happens.. he would have been better off just sticking to the first one they all said about dropping her off. He's obviously not too stable at this point and he will crack or he might have already and they're just keeping the press in the dark at this moment

MAYBE HEADS ROLL ALL OVER ARUBA TO VENEZUELA IF ANYONE SAYS SHIT.

I know other people on this board have touched on this topic, but did the boys mention WHICH lighthouse they went to?  There's more than one lighthouse in Aruba.  The area around the Colorado Point lighthouse in Seroe Colorado might be worth checking out.  


Even though they keep changing their stories, maybe we need to read between the lines.   They might have felt that their story would be more believable if it was almost the truth.

aruba, per se, is not the epicenter of white slavery 2 b sure (search google 4 israel/white slavery). there are people who take them worldwide. even the US isnt safe if "they" want u. lust knows no logic. most abductions never get n e press. this one did. just a minor inconvenience. its BIG MONEY involved. the kind we only dream about. saudi arabia loves blondes and read heads. south america loves blondes. "they" want watt they dont have or sumthing different.

questions...

the 6:30 am phone call the morning of the 1st of june....

1.  who made it?
2.  where was it made from?
3.  where was it made to?


Dee Fine questions...

1. who is she/he?
2.  what did this person do?

Too bad they can't just give him abit of sodium pentathol...

I wish they just WOULD. Geez. What's wrong with doing things the easy way?

Lainey, unless something has changed, I believe Chapel Hill is also in the South. ;-)

I don't think the poster meant to offend - Chapel Hill is a college town. My brother lived there for years. I wouldn't say it's more affluent or more educated than Mountain Brook -- just has more diversity.

FYI,I grew up in Mississippi, but now live out on the 'left' coast (in a wonderfully blue state).  It's only in the past couple of years I have ever told anyone I grew up there and gotten this response: "Oh, I've never been there, I'd love to visit that state."  Most of the time, it was quite the opposite reaction. The nice thing, though, is you can use that prejudice against them -- let them assume you're a dumb hick and see how well you can maneuver. ;-)

It has always been assumed and beleived to be California lighthouse.

We don't know what formal statements the two other teens gave LE after they changed their story the second time.  It appears that the verbal communication given to Mickie John admits a change in story but minimizes his participation in events during and after Holloway's disappearence.

I prefer to shoot them down automatically. I like seeing the sheepish look on their face after I can...wow...speak in a COMPLETE sentence! Someone has ACTUALLY asked me before if I ride a tractor around and wear overalls...just because I'm from Alabama!