Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

As per Cat in chat, I'm trying to start a sticky with BREAKING NEWS ONLY PLEASE....NO COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD!! Thank you

Dallas Also posted this in the Breaking Rumors thread last night & it seemed very helpful. Thought I'd quote it here:



FROM DALLAS ALSO:

Here is a list that I think summarizes today's events, with good extras from the local Ariba folks that are posting:

1. Someone named Lorenzo was detained and questioned yesterday, but we don't think he has been arrested yet. He is known to be a nutcase, maybe capable of something. His dad owned the Volkswagon dealership there but committed suicide 3 years ago and was found hanging in the hallway of their home.
2. Someone else was arrested this morning and two of our posters determined that this is their friend that was arrested. The name is Steve Croes. Croes is a common name like Smith or Jones and he is no relation to the Minister Croes that has been quoted some in some press releases. Steve Croes is an acquaintance of Americaninaruba and DJTAYLOR, and that he drives a large party boat called the Tattoo that stays docked near the Marriott. Steve Croes is divorced and has a two-yr-old child and works hard and also would have been the type that might have enjoyed going to a late-night party. But this really shook up our friends Americaninaruba and DJTAYLOR. Americaninaruba went down to the courthouse to see what was going on there.
3. Someone suggested that maybe Natalee was taken to an "underground party". Other posters have explained that these parties are thrown after the bars close, that they are supposed to get permissions before they have them, that the police quickly close down any parties that don't have permission, but that Lorenzo lives out away from town and does throw parties and the police don't close those down as easily.
4. In the radio announcements, there are several announcements from officials that they now are back to thinking she could be alive.
5. We looked closer at the underwear that was found on the beach and discussed that it did indeed look like an American style, "boy boxers" that can be purchased at any major American department store.
6. We looked closer at the guy that was holding up the underwear, and we found a separate picture from Joran's old website. And it looked like the same guy shown as a friend/acquaintance of Joran also was the guy that found all those items on the beach on 6-7-05. Among those items also was a piece of foam "that had teethmarks" on it and we discussed that a little.
7. We heard rumors of FBI searches that weren't confirmed.
8. We heard that on local Aruba radio at 5 pm, they announced that an additional person had been arrested. This hasn't shown up on MSM so far.
9. We knew that today the three guys (Joran and the three brothers) appeared in court. The court decided to keep them in jail another 8 days. This decision took hours today. They were in their at least 3 hours. One report said that they came out once, and that when they went back in, that Joran was in handcuffs, and had not been in handcuffs the first time he had gone into the courtroom earlier in the day.
10. We heard that a "travelling judge" today overturned another judge's original decision to let Joran's dad visit Joran. So the dad only got to visit Joran one day.
11. We heard that Joran now has additional lawyers (we think he has three now), and that one of his lawyers broke some sort of rule by "talking to one of the guards".
12. Someone posted that Steve Croes has been released, but that is only a post from another website and no one has really confirmed it.

I think that is the summary of today's posts. We had incredible information coming in from Aruba and others.

1) DALLAS UPDATES:

On that item #6, I could have stated that one better, because we didn't reach any conclusion as to whether the two photos were of the same guy.

Also, the person reported at 5 pm to be arrested may have only been questioned. He was in the same grade and at the same school as Joran.

UPDATE FROM WAITINGTOKNOW

6. We looked closer at the guy that was holding up the underwear, and we found a separate picture from Joran's old website. And it looked like the same guy shown as a friend/acquaintance of Joran also was the guy that found all those items on the beach on 6-7-05. Among those items also was a piece of foam "that had teethmarks" on it and we discussed that a little.

I would like to note...
1. the separate picture was not found on Joran's old website..it was found in another website of a friend....http://elektron.et.tudelft.nl/%7Eryan/ picture #37
2. The items were not found on 6/7/05...they were just found this past week near the MH
3. The items found by the caves on 6/7/05, I believe that is where they were found....the foam, can of unidentified substance, security guard uniform shirt....were found by searchers...not the guy that found the panties and condoms..

UPDATE FROM SERENITY 2000: Possibility that skinny Steve & chubby Steve are one and the same, as MSNBC seems to be using photos of the stocky Steve (left), contrary to what Steve’s Aruban acquaintances had identified as his pic (right).

* YOU CAN SEE THE PHOTOS IN RUMOR THREAD 8, PG 57




UPDATE FROM ABSOLUT: WEB SOURCES FOR PHOTOS

MSNBC is showing the big stocky steve croes
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/


http://elektron.its.tudelft.nl/~ensermo/mike/pages/alltogether.htm

He is in the montage in the second link.

The MSNBC pic is newer.

USEFUL REMINDER FROM ROGERS ESP. FOR NEWBIES. THE MESSAGES ABOUT THE MB and ARUBAN POSTERS ARE ESPECIALLY VITAL. THEY ARE SUPER-VALUABLE NEWS SOURCES.

Good morning all.

I wanted to say something about this current controversy. There are many posters that have pointed out that messages here often have nothing to do with Natalee. Many take offense to this because the volume of off-topic posts dilute the purpose of board, or because the number of messages make it more difficult to trace the raw news that is being developed

These two points are indisputably true.

However, this board is what it is. It has been forged in the fire of the 24 hour news cycle with the heart breaking case of Natalee's disappearance at its core.

At the onset of this saga, there were several sites that attempted to serve this role. They've all shutdown. Red and Tom have persevered, but not without adaptation. In the midst of this tsunami, they were forced to change the software they use for hosting this forum. The community of users did not let the new software impose the communication structure, but instead adopted methods that closely patterned the software from before.

What we have is a hybrid. It parses and develop news, but it also supports and encourages each other and "off-topic" banter. I like it, some of you won't.

While I can't speak for the moderators, I think that by now I know them fairly well. All are welcome here, to participate, lurk, whatever. When you post, be considerate of others. Particularly be considerate of Natalee's family and classmates that visit here. If you feel the need to vent be specific. Don't target Aruba or Arubans with your anger. We have many Arubans that we know and love. You may disagree with an Aruban official or with their investigative technics.

We don't need to agree, but we do need to be kind.

MIMI MENTIONED THIS, WHICH ALSO CAME UP Y-Day:

The party boat "Tattoo" Croze worked on as a DJ is up for sale! Hope they investgate before it is sold!!! Wonder if the police know this?

http://yachtbroker.escapeartist.com/boats/action/view/boat/297/

I POSTED THIS ON RUMORS #8. It explains what's up with this BREAKING NEWS thread. A few tips for NEWBIES:
1) unless you have new & somewhat verifiable INFO to add, post comments on other threads.
2) if you get a debug error message after posting, don't worry. don't post again. it probably went through.
3) try not to quote huge passages of text.
4) remember that the pm (private message) option is available if you have something to say to another individual.

***please read***

hey guys. i have spent the last few hours catching up & have tried to compile people's summaries of and updates on FACTS & SEMI-FACTS in the BREAKING NEWS thread. PLEASE USE THIS THREAD & encourage newbies to use it too. could really help resolve some of the conflicts that arose last night if people have a quick 'n' easy place to go to catch up on major developments. let's try our best not to use the BREAKING NEWS thread for speculation but instead for UPDATES on what seems to be decent information, keeping the thread LEAN & SUCCINCT for our newbies. the alabama news article is likely to drive more traffic this way & so people will have some catching-up to do.

also, i am exhausted after spending too much time reading, & will have to leave the site till sometime this afternoon. PLEASE, PLEASE post new information in the BREAKING NEWS thread.

and, hey, let's all remember that this is about natalee, not our own egos. if someone says something mean or accusing to us, we do NOT have to respond. this only fuels disputes as we saw last night. be the bigger person. leave it be or take the fight private.

may natalee be found safe & sound.

There was just a report on Fox from Aruba that a man has been found decapitated.

Here's a link with info about the man found decapitated
http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005

WOW!!!!! Hubart Teal from Diario is onFOX, says Natalee is alive on her way to Venz!!!!!

Breaking news: Reuben Trappenberg, a high ranking official of the Aruban government was just asked on Fox, just now, whether the decision not to use polygraphic technology was a point of contention between Aruban law enforcement officers and the FBI. He danced around the subject, claimed that he was not in direct communication with law enforcement officers, and reiterated that polygraphs are "not admissable in Aruban courts." But, of course, that is something we already knew. But what he did NOT say is just as significant. He did NOT say that polygraphic interrogation would be a violation of Aruban law. He did NOT say that. Further, a letter to the editor of AM Digital a couple of days ago by retired Arubian police officer Elio Nicolaas, indicated that Elio Nicolaas was surprised that Arubian authorities did not take advantage of the polygraphic technology offered by the FBI.

At approximately 3:05 PM EST today, Joran's mother Anita and father Paulus left the police station after being questioned for about 2 hours.

They made no comment when leaving.

Story played on Fox - Fox ran video of Joran's mother and father getting in their car and leaving .

Father was released from questioning last evening, both parents were back today answering more questions.

EDITED June 22, 2005: Both parents were not questioned. Only Joran's father was questioned for the second time. His mother was not questioned.  It was reported later that she visited her son on that day, but was not interviewed by the police.

Fox reporter stated that the heat of the investigation was getting hotter on Joran.

watchingallalong -

fyi, my summary of the days' events on Friday, 6-17-05, all had accurate confirmations.  Confirming information is available upon request...

I am attempting to compile a list of all people who have been detained, questioned, and/or arrested in the case of Natalee Holloway.  It is an effort to sort the facts in my head.  I would really appreciate anyone's help in confirming dates, information, etc.

Thanks,
Puggywug

CAST OF CHARACTERS
In the Mysterious & Heartbreaking Disappearance of Natalee Holloway

Joren van der Sloot, age 17
Questioned 31 May 2005 ?
Released 31 May 2005 ?
Arrested 09 June 2005
Student at International School

Deepak Kalpoe, age 21
Questioned 31 May 2005 ?
Released 31 May 2005 ?
Arrested 09 June 2005
Friend of JVSD

Satish Kalpoe, age 18
Questioned 31 May 2005 ?
Released 31 May 2005 ?
Arrested 09 June 2005
Friend of JVSD

Antonius “Mickey” John, age 30
Arrested 05 June 2005
Released 13 June 2005
Security guard

Abraham Jones, age 28
Arrested 05 June 2005
Released 13 June 2005
Security guard

Steve Gregory Croes, age 26
Questioned 17 June 2005
Arrested 17 June 2005
Friend of JVSD or Deepak ?
DJ on “party boat” called “Tattoo”
Knows one of Kalpoe brothers from internet cafe

Lorenzo van Rijn, age ?
Questioned 16 June 2005
Friend of JVSD or Deepak ?
Rumored to be  son of VW dealer who committed suicide
Rumored to be illegitimate son of PVDS

Maxito Arendsz, age 26 ?
Questioned 17 June 2005
Friend of JVSD
Car racer
Works at Aruba Speed Shop

OR

Max Arends, age 18 ?
Questioned 17 June 2005
Friend of JVSD
Student at International School

Paulus van der Sloot, age ?
Questioned 18 June 2005
Questioned second time 19 June 2005
Father of JVSD
Court did not allow him to visit son, JVSD
Questioned as a “witness”
Judge-in-training in Aruba

ok, i want to try to figure out what we've learned today, in terms of semi-credible info:

* one kalpoe already at prison; the other kalpoe and joran have been moved to the prison as well
* one of the suspects attempted suicide and has been transferred to receive psychological help
* J's *current* story is that he left her on the beach asleep
* some in Aruba want the Holloways to be polygraph-tested
* in addition to the beheaded guy and the missing guy, another missing report has possibly been filed (??????)
* another arrest or witness interview today (?????????) with initial A (Alex the Axe-ist, whose pics we've seen online? or maybe Max A?....or.... Anita, Joran's mom?)

y'all, we MUST NOT succumb to the trolls' level of nastiness. THEY WANT US TO RESPOND and ARGUE. if they don't get what they want, they LEAVE & go someplace where they will. it's as simple as that.

http://am.aruba.tv/download.php?name=amAruba.pdf

Greta was able to take Beth to the Van der sloots toady - and they let them in and they actually spoke for 90 min - do not think the actual cameras will be showing this interview but she will discuss on her show tonite at 10 p.m.

Most significant item heard today. Greta van Susteran and the Mother of Natalee Holloway met for 90 minutes today with the parents of Joran van der Sloot in their home. Greta reported tonight that the Mother of Joran said that Joran told her, "I left her at the beach and walked home."

The Greta segment is worth watching, as Joran's father, hiding in the bushes from the cameras, emerges and walks to the gate as Beth Holloway asks if she can give him a prayer card for Natalee. He invites Beth and Greta in, without cameras, and they stay inside speaking with the parents for 90 minutes.

www.hasibokos.com is reporting that the investigation is stalled right now:




http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005

 :shock:

They should polygraph everyone involved...both sets of parents, the alabama kids, the suspects, the chaperones, the C & C employees, the HI employees...and check all the computers of all of them, including the internet cafe computers.  Leave  no stone unturned.

According to two major Dutch news sites, Van der Sloot sr. is accused of (accessory to) murder, manslaughter or kidnapping-resulting-in-death ("moord, doodslag of ontvoering met de dood tot gevolg").
Sadly, this would imply that the Aruba police assume that Natalee is no longer alive.

Dutch sources:
http://www.nos.nl/nos/artikelen/2005/06/art0000B0060700.html
http://www.nu.nl/news/546206/122/Nederlandse_rechter_op_Aruba_gearresteerd.html

I wonder where the "death" part is coming from?? I thought there were reports that there was a possibilty Natalee was alive? This is Friday, it seems like all the twists and turns take place on Th-F. What will today will bring?

From what I've heard all of them (Joran, the brothers, Croes and now Daddy VDS) are accused of murder, manslaughter or kidnapping-resulting-in-death.  

Since the police don't know what happened yet, they accuse them with everything (to hold them) and then change the charge to the appropriate one when they are formally charged.

From CNN...a couple of days old but still useful:

There are two videos on this page:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html

ONe shows how difficult it is to do a search on Aruba and is very informative if you haven't been there.

The second is about US teens still going to Aruba and Carlos and Charlies. After seeing this, it's not to hard to figure out why nobody was watching when Natalee left.

If you haven't seen them...check them out......they are in the green "Watch" box in the center of the page.

Thanks for posting this...

From another message board - below:

FOX NEWS NOW

Equisearch diver being interviewed

I am at work, so I cannot tune in and they nothing is updated on the news websites.

According to his attorney, Steve Croes will be released tomorrow because there wasn't enough evidence to hold him.

The others are still being held.

I cannot believe it - I came home after being gone all day and see that Paul VDS has been released - wow and no one has posted this yet on here?

From http://www.riehlworldview.com

Breaking Aruba
Just had a communication from Aruba - search dogs have gotten a "hit" in quarry near the Van der Sloot house, dive team being rounded up.

As posted yesterday, today's grids covered areas more accessible for the boy(s) working on a tight timeline.

I'm told there will be a press conferece at 1PM. Also, dogs said to not false alarm for non-human remains. Appears find is in very deep water of quarry, quarry was once drained and a corpse suspected to have been there for approximately ten years was discovered at that time.

See link
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/breaking_aruba.html

A report via Riehl World view (http://www.riehlworldview.com/) indicates that Dutch media have swarmed to an area where a possible "hit" of a body may have been discovered. A conference was held to advise all media to not compromise the ongoing search for Natalee Holloway by their presence at the scene.

This is it Arubagirl! (the link to it...)

Can someone in aruba get more information on this? I'm not seeing anything on CNN or Fox yet.  But, it could be they're waiting to see if it appears to be NH.  Keep in mind it could be another corpse, as the dogs would "hit" regardless of the person I think.  If I'm wrong and someone else knows otherwise let me know. I just thought dogs trained to search for remains are just taught to search for the death smell, not specific scents of individuals.

Geraldo is on Fox now and they aren't even mentioning the quarry.

After watching Geraldo's bit from Aruba, they discussed the case, showed pics of Equusearch in the quarry, but didn't mention the quarry at all.  ?

News media reporters are using Cherry Picker trucks to get a view "over the fence" of the jail and get photography of VDSs and Kalpoes.

Telearuba 8:51 PM ET

http://nataleeholloway.tripod.com/

I've never seen that before.  Could definitely be misused.