Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

A new thread for news and discussions, because I'm going to bed and I think you'll make too many pages while I sleep! :)

PLEASE visit the link below with Tom and Red's WEBLOG for summaries of the information gathered here.

www.scaredmonkeys.com

Please be sure to read the TROLLS announcement. Thank you.

Natalee's mom said she thinks "we" need to talk about a major in pre-law now. What a wonderful woman!! She thinks she's alive and so do I.

A gentle reminder, that at times we get heated and angry over something we read. Perhaps something someone else says. When you feel yourself typing out things you would "never say to a person if they were standing in front of you", well.. that is the time to step away.

Get a coffee, watch some TV, hug your hubby/wife, take a walk, take a shower.... take a break. Go watch the sunset.

This is a highly emotional issue that has dragged on for weeks (and might go for weeks more).

Remember, we are all real people with real feelings. Sometimes, when we type out "words" they aren't taken in the same context that we meant them.

Give others the same latitude you would like them to give you. Don't assume the worst, look for how that person could have meant something other than the worst.

Life's too short. We are all not lost... our loved ones know where we are. Be thankful.

Ok.. back to your regular schedule program, before it was so rudely interrupted by ME.

The final panel had two key things I thought.

First, the retired FBI agent said use of word WITNESS with father was a key change.  Said his sources are saying obstruction of justice.

Second, all three seem to be treating it as a definite homicide.

It was more inline with the joke about the shoes. Mis Dis information.

Was that Dash on Fox tonight?

lol (((Catrina))) Aww we love ya Cat!

I was a good girl and stayed in the loft instead of reading the bashing of my homeland :) lol

:::straightening her halo over her horns:: lmao

yes.

Wants,

Simpletons strike again. You just gotta hate that.

Yes tape from Wed. night.

ok...here is the bottomline.......the 3 boys, paulus and anita VDS, steven croes and a few others all hold key pieces of info and the aruban police are obviously politically influenced...they aren't acting like a LE with teeth.

give the fbi a few days of full control and i garauntee it is solved quickly.

All three? Are you talking about the panel on the show or something else?

Hi Iquitos and writenow,

As I started the whole betrayel thing I will end it right now, i was just trying to explain why everyone involved in this case was covering each others backs. I was not promoting vows of silence nor promoting being against  it .
Now as regards to a cultural difference , I am going to treat myself to nice argentinian steak and afterwords enjoy a nice smoke of home grown marijuana of seeds I bought in a Dutch coffee shop  :lol: .  And later on I will come back and share with you all some inspirational thoughts on the whole case  :

Kerin,

I hope you got my PM reply. I received a debug notice and I don't see it in my sent items folder :(

Evening guys..everybody ok? I have been glued to FOX, and I am just doing some thinking...I feel SO SORRYYYYY for Beth Twitty..I cannot imagine her hurt..But I have one question...do you guys think that maybe she knows that Natalee is alive? I am sure she doesnt know where she is..duh...but, i am wondering if they may have told her that all leads point to her NOT being dead..The reason I ask this is, her eyes dart when she talks..she closes them frequently and doesnt make much eye contact..she speaks at times as if she KNOWS Natalee is not dead..LORD PLEASE LET THIS BE THE CASE!!! Also, she is very determined...and has SO MUCH MORE strength than I would have..but I would be INCONSOLEABLE...she seems so together..makes me just wonder if she knows something we dont....

i think per cnn, after Paulus van der sloot and wife left the courthouse this afternoon somebody asked the judge "Suspect or Witness?" and he said, "the latter".

Just seems to me like the Mayberry Police Department with Barney as the LI

bendex - gitRdone :)

She does seem that way at least in that interveiw but remember that is from Wed or Thursday. on Greta.

I feel like there is a whole lot we don't know.

Aruban lawyer says the defense team for suspects are the best.  On Fox right now.  Also says dad being interrogated was not unusual.

Thanks and g'night Catrina!

She is so adorable and soft spoken.

The three were the three men on the panel.

nikki, i think she is just being as positive and hopeful...that is really all she has-hope and faith.


and someone from aruba pls explain to me why it is acceptable for authorities to let the 3 boys go free and not collect any evidence from day one, when they ADMITTED they were with Natalee the night she was alst seen???????????

If the FBI is in charge of the investigation.  Previous posts on this board as well as reports from Fox indicate that the FBI is playing a secondary role.

If the FBI is the primary LE agency for this investigation, which I doubt, we're in trouble if its takes the FBI 3 three weeks to make arrests.  Yet again those of us who have worked with the FBI know how they don't drag investigations out!

ON Fox now

Also from the air, that is one beautiful island.

Nat's uncle sounds just like Michael Waltrip!

Spokesman, "We're one big happy, safe family."  
Its time for reevaluation of their PR media spin.

say what you want about the FBI.......they would dwarf the investigators who are currently in charge...we all know, they have more resources....

I agree

She seems alot more hopeful today

I keep wishing the reports would ask why no search of the brother's residence and why their parent/step parents  are not being quesioned.  

Frankly if it is just Jorans that might mean the authorities know he is either the perp or the weakest link.

I thought that the Arubian government was in charge and the FBI are there to lend a helping hand when needed....hopefully they need it because I think they could use the help!

Last night I mentioned the cartel. If this in fact a drug related kidnapping then the police have to be very very careful about what they release. One wrong move and the kidnappers won't hesitate to kill her.

She refuses to accept the thought that Natalee won't be coming home!  In that, yes you are right.  She knows tha Nat is alive!

Anybody wanna fly with me to aruba and give Beth Twitty a hug?
 :)
Also, I read alot on here about what the psychics have to say..I dont usually lean towards that too much, usually dont put too much credit into it, but I am not knocking it..So, my question is this..I wonder , other than the posts on here, etc., if a REAL and very experienced psychic that has worked alot of investigations with law enforcement has been contacted..I mean, hell, at this point, anything is worth a shot.....

the more this drags on the more i think it is by design........it is allowing valuable evidence to become non-exsistent.

is aruba crime rate low, or do they just turn a blind eye on everything and not count it? (that was sarcastic before anyone goes crazy)

I thought they did a search of the brothers' residence way before Joran's when they took the car that Nat was in with them.  Wasn't there footage of them taking computers out of their home?

 :arrow:
my friend chipp says
man  i got me orders
and i got me disorders! 8)

All reports that I have read on the net and in print and broadcast indicate that the LE from Aruba are incharge of the investigation.

SPS I tend to lean toward that being as DEA was first on the scene at the HI when she was reported missing. I found that interesting.

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWSV5/storyV5familysearch19w.htm

Found this link over at Dan Riehl's site - new pictures of Natalee and timeline info.

goodnight cat!

Sorry for asking but I didn't get to see the news. Have any of the others on the trip besides Dash and Ed "gone public" yet?

Though that interview was a day or two ago, I also was particlarly impressed with those faithful words of Nat's future plans.

nikki, i will fly to aruba with you......like i said, it was beautiful and i would love to be back there........plus, i feel terrible thinking about how natalees family must be pushing themselves through this tough time.

You bet they don't want to talk bout that death!

in defense of aruban retired cops. there was a post here of a letter from a retired cop who said they should lighten up and polygraph joran and company.  it is an indicator and would be ok as long as it was not used to pressure a confession.  results could be for police information only.

where would wantstoknow do it??
on side where trash gous?

It gets more and more bizarre, by the moment. Just about twenty minutes ago Elio Nicolaas was on Fox News, claiming that polygraphs should be given to THE FAMILY. He was asked if he meant the family of Joran van der Sloot. NO, he replied. THE FAMILY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY. This is the same man who wrote a letter to the editor of AM Digital, just a few days ago, stating that polygraphs would have been helpful, and that he didn't know why the Arubian authorities weren't taking advantage of the technology offered by the FBI. Now, he says that giving polygraphs to Arubians would be "illegal."

Folks, the family of Natalee Holloway was over a thousand miles away, at the time of Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

I'm sorry. I know Arubagirl hates the C-word, but somebody's gotten to Elio Nicolaas.

It's just that simple.

Friend you are a piece of work! :P

ok, I know he botches everything up..i know he acts like he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer...but I miss Geraldo..at least he's entertaining if nothing else... :D

we need BATMAN to hang out in the shady districts of Aruba and find the truth

I really want to go to Aruba, it looks so beautiful, but I am afraid the retired cop would want to polygraph me if I was robbed?

1) if the father is involved, thats why the 3 aren't spilling the beans

2)  if the father of VDS is involved, thats why there isn't a body - she is in safe keeping somewhere

I thought the woman from "A Current Affair" brought out a couple interesting things.  She says the new judge has changed the pace of the investigation...AND, her story about the PIO refusing to give her information is shocking!! It seems the attitude, at least within government, is starting to sour against Americans.

I've dealt with PIO's on all kinds of stories.  Usually, even if they can't tell you anything they're great at making you feel like they've told you something! And records such as crime statistics, etc. are normally public documents.  Not sure about Aruba!

After seeing the retired cop on FOX, I am starting to think that mall security guards have more sense...lol

Did anyone catch the clip about the guy that was murdered last night on FOX? Even the PIO won't talk about it. What's up with that??? He's the PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER for God's sake. Where's the information?

NO, the cop was suggesting polygraphs be taken.

Where is Greta? Maybe she will find out the truth. I would want her on my side...

Good evening ALL!!!

Bon nochi LIZA!!!

Where is Greta? Maybe she will find out the truth. I would want her on my side...

Texas, that was funny! Did you hear the reporter say maybe she needs to "lawyer up?' :)

So the dude is getting his 15 minutes, this has become such a media circus, they are out scrounging for sources and probably will interview anyone to keep the story going, no matter how bizarre the claims.

I haven't read this question yet...

"We dropped off Joran and Natalee at the Marriot".  What does Joran have to say about what happened next?

Did NH just walk off into the distance?
Did she say something nasty to Joran and walk off?
Did she go to sleep on the beach?

The LE MUST have gotten an answer to this question are are relying on it

Both nights at the beginning of At Large, so and so said he is filling in for geraldo who is on assignment. Could that assignment be a return trip to Aruba for monday night primetime fox shows.

as we just sit here with thumbs in ?&%, a crime scene and evidence gets harder and harder to recover and process.......what if her body was dumped in the water??? with sharks and other aquatic life, combined with tides and currents, it seems that the body and remains may never be found.

are the arubans aware of this and dragging their feet long enough to make sure everything naturally goes away? the more this case gets botched, the more i think its a cover up.

Is there ANY news on that Diario thing from last night? I havent heard a word since....

Unfortunately, FBI is only able to serve in an advisory role in this.

Hi iquitos... very improbable.
Imagine if a suspect refuse to take the "test" (and anyone can do it since the polygraph's use it's not legal)
then in that case the suspect "should" be accused of... obstruction to justice?  :wink:
As I said before... forget the polygraph!

           :?: he is pmio

public mis infotmataion officer

Deep, even though you come from way out there all of a sudden, I do tend to like what you have to say, even though you are 91 years old!

Not a word, very strange!

seems like that's all the rage in Aruba......  :wink:

Do not take recent comments by Beth Twitty as proof that cooperation with the Arubian government is improving. She is walking a thin line between telling the truth and maintaining what little cooperation she is getting.

It's hard enough to be a grieving mother, without having to fill the shoes of Condoleeza Rice at the same time.

Hey ya Native! (((hugs)))

A fathers day message to you all:

Google your kids email addresses and IM names. Hunt them down on the web the way you did Joran and his friends. This case exposes what kids in all cultures are up to online. Put a keystroke recorder on the kids computer as well. Do all this even if you trust your kid. Do more if you don't trust them.

This post is not saying that NH did anything. But this fathers day her dad is looking for her.

Do what you have to so you aren't looking for yours. Tickle.com is just as accessible from your kids room, basement etc.

Brothers' home and car searched/confiscated before Joran's.

Gov't is tired of tough questions and the reporters are tired of no answers! Its turing into a viscious struggle!

i was rolling on that one!

91 years old?  where did that come from?

by the way - with age comes wisdom  :D

Are you talking about the slit throat guy? Not sure that is even true as there is no information anywhere except for the one source, which seems strange as the MSM are covering this extensivly.

Hi Native, do you have the link to the newspaper that reported that last night?
Thanks!

Egad. Maybe Geraldo was right.

I'm coming in very late on this discussion, so you all must have heard Natalee's stepfather describe Paulus ven der Sloot as "an obnoxious slimeball."

I saw it on one of the Aruba sites last night, it is true.

About what?

Haven't heard that yet...wow.

If in fact our suspicions about that are true, they DON'T want to speak of it!

I would be very cautious about accepting statements regarding FBI role at face value. The extent of US government involvement in this investigation is quite unusual, and I don't think it is likely that 12 agents would be deployed there for cosmetic purposes and provide psychological comfort to Natalee's parents.

That neither the FBI nor Aruba authorities are forthcoming with information is frustrating for those of us who are following the case, but I will repeat what I posted last night - I have seen many US police press conferences where every question was answered with no comment at this time or some such, and to me it appears that the main difference with the Aruba police is that they are not holding these press conferences and answering each question with "no comment at this time."

That's the one! His name was Sergio Gomez.

Foxnews also reported this at 8:15pm EST last night and live right now.

Are yall watching Fox?  He is getting em!

I'm sorry, ya'll..I dont wanna stir the pot here and get anybody all miffed at me, but this is the most bizarre case I have ever heard of....

The "false confession"
A small island that turns up NOTHING..
A reporter that claims he has a lead he is following...then...nothing..
The 3 brought in, let go, brought in again and arrested...

The list goes on and on and on.....I have seen some great Arubian people on here...I am not against them..at all...however, this seems wayyyyyy too "phrucked" up to me..... These LE officials have sincerely screwed this up..WE here on Monkeys, could fly down and have more than they have thus far..

No, his name was Renee Van Hanegem.  Sergio Gomez is said to be missing.

Native! Hola!

What's the word for this evening? any news to report?

I didn't see this before....here is the OTHER Max Arrendz tickle page - 26 yrs old, very hot car:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=lZ_.sBUEWhImHqm5

Did she say CULT out loud?  I think that existence of a cult is worth the possibilities to check it out!

HELLO Cali!!

About the c-word.

Cult and known ritual yet.........very low crime and no homicides. Maybe cult killings are in a different category.

I totally agree
Kerin just took sleep meds.

All the kids on there site is rolling.

I think maybe an aircraft carrier off the coast of Aruba may be required
to get some results here. The people running the Government are
obviously covering for terrorist. :D

Well put!

   Yes, Mr. Twitty was interviewed briefly on Fox this afternoon. He was visibly angry and stressed, and just as clearly trying to keep that under control. The Fox interviewer was quite sympathetic. But it was obvious that Mr. Twitty was fast reaching the end of his rope--and who can blame him?  He was quite firm in his denunciation of the elder van der Sloot.

or...WMD  :lol:

true.

I saw you on TV!  Get it?

What's your source for 12?
There are 6 from Miami, 1 from Barbados. That's 7. Plus 2 miami dade PD search and rescue with dogs.

Aruba and the Dutch are running this, Ting. It's their country. Now if we sent in the Marines and launched an invasion on palm beach, maybe we could put our FBI guys in charge of this.

NativeLingo, what on earth is going on? It seems that all the doors have slammed shut, and this whole investigation has taken on a decidedly anti-American posture. Elio Nicolaas has changed his tune and reversed his field. All spokesmen are rigidly adhering to a party line, and cooperation with American law enforcement seems to be coming to an end.

They reported 12 on fox yesterday during the day.

No OIL in Aruba.... you can forget the aircraft carrier......

No OIL in Aruba.... you can forget the aircraft carrier......

Yes, I have watched her expressions and tone of voice and eye movement also. She's not telling all she knows, but I have no idea why not unless it is a bigger element with the US Federal agencies involved.

Wanna bet Geraldo has the PM on tomorrow night? With Geraldo live in Aruba and Bill O introducing him?

I'm sorry, I don't understand what that means.  Is this the real Max guy that's been taken in for questioning, not the young Max that went to school with Joran?

Okay but let's go back to Day one.. or late morning of Natalee's disappearance.. first on the scene..DEA... why DEA.

The we have 12 FBI's within how long? Like we discussed the other day, FBI (was asked but 12?) goes international when there is a crime ring ("combating international and national organized crime").

So, we have DEA there before Natalee was missing and 12 FBI there after she is reported missing. I dunno but that's a pretty concrete clue right there.

Sincerely what did you expect after the ban-Aruba "folklore"? :evil:

I, for one, do not believe that the FBI agents down there are just sitting around watching interviews and waiting for something to do.  I truly believe that they are doing plenty of investigating on their own or behind the scenes.  I truly do not believe the US would send that many agents down there to sit around twiddling their thumbs until Aruban LE asked them to test something.  There is a lot more going on down there than we are being told.  Just my theory.

Thanks for that!  That almost answered the question I was about to ask.  Does anyone think think that the Authorities there whether local or ours could be persuing the bigger scenario and not in the position to let it out?  I hope that's the case.

He was questioned and released ............think it real max

But you know by now (FOX) that it is true, and that is part of my lat question!

WHAAAAAT??? I´m totally out of the loops here...haven´t seen the news all day ......what´s happening???

Yeah, I think this is the guy.
The guy in the middle back row looks a little like Croes doesn't he?

No Shell...I am here.  :) I was monitoring my tickle page, hanging out waiting for the old man to post something.

ok...this small island which is hailed as being so safe has now been in the spotlight for about 3-4 weeks and:

they have a potential homicide(natalee)

they have a beheading

they have a missing person

they find that 45 yr old woman who was being held by drug lords(if you believe the Black & White paper)

and we have all come to learn that aruba is a huge trans-shipment area for the drugs of columbia.....

huh???

 You are right Dragonfly!

I would not be the least bit surprised if CIA is down there as well but of course we would never know that because they don't exisit lol.  :wink:

I agree w'dat!

I don't know how many are actually there. I have heard 12 on some earlier news reports, and I have heard 13 I don't remember where. However, regardless of the number, I will stand by my contention that the US would not deploy even one to go down there and make Natalee's family feel better. Nor do I think it is reasonable to suppose that the Secretary of State would take an interest in the case for public relations reasons.



That is certainly the official statement. And Hamid Karzai is running Afghanistan.

He seems pretty up on the web. He may know exactly what was being done. Just curious, has he post ANYTHING today or yesterday?

Read the posts. Ask around.

I think at this point, maybe the Arubian authorties need to make an announcement on TV and radio that if she shows up alive, the person/persons responsible for her return recieves the cash. NO QUESTIONS Asked..... after all, that wouldn't be far from what it appears the the investigators are doing anyway....

I think at this point, maybe the Arubian authorties need to make an announcement on TV and radio that if she shows up alive, the person/persons responsible for her return recieves the cash. NO QUESTIONS Asked..... after all, that wouldn't be far from what it appears the the investigators are doing anyway....

"ANcient tribal rituals"!

I think at this point, maybe the Arubian authorties need to make an announcement on TV and radio that if she shows up alive, the person/persons responsible for her return recieves the cash. NO QUESTIONS Asked..... after all, that wouldn't be far from what it appears the the investigators are doing anyway....

I think at this point, maybe the Arubian authorties need to make an announcement on TV and radio that if she shows up alive, the person/persons responsible for her return recieves the cash. NO QUESTIONS Asked..... after all, that wouldn't be far from what it appears the the investigators are doing anyway....

DEA because they were already there on the island and the fastest to get ahold of to meet with the chaperone left behind. (due to political connections of the owner of the aircraft, correct?)

Thought that, too, but the rest looks like a totally different crowd.

Nikki, be my guest. In fact, I will offer you my house. Take my car. Have my credit card.

As has been stated, the DEA guys were already in Aruba- for another reason.

SL

12 FBI? or 12 AGENTS as in FBI, S & R and DEA? Because they've already said DEA is there, but haven't given a number.

no shiyt sun

Sorry, technical difficulties..... maybe an I-D-10-T error on my part...

Kerin, yes but with all this drug problem and knowledge, just kind of curious he was first then the FBI flew like bats outta hell there.

I need to stop watching Law and Order LMAO

lets be real here....i am sure that many arubans(mostly citizens/regular people) care that natalee is missing........but the government is concerned about their bottomline and reputation.....

negative press   =    a problem with tourism   =   a large scale effect on the countries biggest business-tourism

Dragonfly
I agree with you.

nitjus4fun,
Cool thanks for noticing. :)

I don't know about the "12" FBI Agents there.........but the DEA Agent was already in Aruba when Natalee disappeared for another reason and her was told to stay and get in touch with the chaperone that stayed behind to get information and to help facilitate.

I agree. But I am sure that the FBI is letting the Aruban LE decide how much and what they will divulge that the FBI is doing. I mean, if the FBI starts coming out and giving their own interviews to the press, isn't that kinda stepping on the toes of the local LE? And, with all due respect, the FBI are "invited GUESTS" of the Arubans...not COWBOYS who can go in and take things over. (sorry, couldn't resist the cowboy reference)  :)

no shiyt sun :?   wtf

It's the NSA that doesn't exist. Or maybe the OSP. Or both. And if they did exist, the first rule of NSA would be.... :twisted:

Surely by now they have done this.....or do you mean on national tv and not local?

did the cop from south park just get a job in aruba?

I like that Cali!  :wink:

Previous post drama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No Kerin didnt take the pill I did.

mountainmac, I have not heard such an announcement,

Yay, Nativelingo is here.

Amen Cali.  I get no response when I post these kinds of thoughts, but I've had suspicions just because of the silence, confusion,  and "no comment" statements coming from interviewees on TV.

Nope he already had the job. He watches the people traffiking and drug smuggling.

Best way to beat the folklore is to solve the case and FIND OUR NATALEE!

Anyone have links to reliable reports of the beheading, missing person, or the 45 year old woman held by drug lords?  Any links to English language news from Aruba?

well, they're each specialist in different areas, so I think they're giving the Aruban authorities a crash course in all aspects of an investigation -- from technology to surveillance to interrogation to evidence processing to crime scene processing.

from the Miami Herald

"For now, the agents -- members of the extra-territorial squad that deals with events in the Caribbean and South America -- will continue in their role as observers. Among them: an expert in evidence processing, a crimes against children specialist and a victim/witness coordinator. ''It's really up to the Aruban government what they want us to do,'' Orihuela said."

I heard that too but I remember the DEA guy comes from Venezuela, not in Aruba.
(And I remember that due to thought at that moment: "strange public annoucement... DEA in 'Chavez' land?" - but of course I could be wrong)

AGAIN...The government is not involved.....

FYI, Please look this up: "Trias Politica"

Arubagirl..... any idea on what is happening??

Someone on the Yahoo/Natalee forum from Aruba said they heard the beheading was unrelated to NH and that the wife had hired someone to do this to the husband....also saying the wife was Colombian. JUST POSTING WHAT I READ IN CHAT ROOM.

Edit: So, no, not a reliable report....but a report nonetheless

One point I wanted to make in response to those who are surprised that a body has not been found is that it apparently is not that hard to hide a body (not that I have any personal experience in that regard!).  I don't remember how long Jessica Lunsford was missing when her body was found.  But I do remember that it was found very close to her home despite the fact that the area had been repeatedly searched both by LE and volunteers.  Even then, the only reason the body was found is that the creep confessed and told them where to look.  I hope Natalee is alive, but the passage of time suggests otherwise and, based on the above, I do not take much solace in the fact that her body has not been found.

elio nicolaas is probly from sint nicolaas right?

I wonder how the three guys enjoyed their first day in prison today?

p.s. - shout out to mbhs05!

Somewhere in the hundreds of pages I have read in the past 3 weeks, I think I remember that when the chaperone called to say that Natalee was missing, the rest of the group flew on home and this one person stayed behind to wait to see if she turned up.  Someone in AL knew this DEA agent who was flying to Aruba for some reason at the same time and contacted the agent who contacted the chaperone upon his arrival in Aruba that day and gave some suggestions for how to proceed.  Don't think the agent's involvement had anything to do with Natalee and may have even been there for pleasure, etc.  I got the distict impression the agent was a connection to the Twitty's and was the earliest contact there with the chaperone before the family even arrived.

This may not be accurate but I am pretty sure this is what I read.

Kirby

This is very long but worth reading. It's in regards to the theory of drug smuggling, etc. in Aruba. This comes from the US Department of Justice Webiste:

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/03014/03014.html#aruba

Aruba

The Caribbean island of Aruba was politically separated from the Netherlands Antilles in 1996, becoming an autonomous member of the Kingdom of the Netherlands the same year. Located only 20 miles off the coast of Venezuela, Aruba serves as a transshipment point for illicit drugs—primarily cocaine from South America.

Smugglers generally move large loads of cocaine into Aruba on fishing vessels, private yachts, and go-fast boats. They also move drugs out of Aruba inside maritime containerized cargo and airfreight. Drug trafficking organizations continue to exploit Aruba’s air and sea links to the continental United States, South America, Europe, Puerto Rico, and other Caribbean nations. Most of the cocaine transiting Aruba is destined for European markets—primarily the Netherlands.

Aruba has large free-zone facilities (areas that allow goods to be held and then re-shipped elsewhere without paying an import or duty tax), which provide opportunities for bulk shipments of cocaine to transit the area without the scrutiny of local officials. Cocaine shipments in containerized cargo increasingly are transiting the area, specifically through the free zone. The free-zone facilities on Aruba are conducive to transshipments, not only of drugs, but also chemicals used in illicit manufacture of drugs. Some firms in the free zone are suspected of involvement in money laundering.

Couriers on commercial flights and cruise ships smuggle small (usually from 1- to 10-kilogram) amounts of cocaine and, to a lesser extent, heroin, into and out of Aruba, either concealed in their luggage or taped to their bodies. Commercial air couriers, sometimes swallow up to 1 kilogram of cocaine or heroin per trip. Drug couriers easily blend into the hundreds of thousands of tourists who visit Aruba each year.

The proximity of Aruba to South America, a high standard of living in Aruba, and an underdeveloped law enforcement infrastructure make the country an attractive meeting place for South American, European, and U.S. drug traffickers. Colombian traffickers play a major role in the shipments of cocaine and heroin that transit the island, having forged trafficking relationships with local Arubans. In the past, some airline employees and cruise-ship personnel have smuggled drugs through Aruba.

Aruba plays a significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering. Money laundering organizations are well established on Aruba and enjoy protection from considerable bank secrecy laws and a stable currency. The organizations use Aruba’s offshore banking and incorporation systems, free-zone areas, and resort/casino complexes to transfer and to launder drug proceeds. Although money laundering was made illegal in 1999, the legislation requires a provable underlying crime with a penalty of at least 4 years. The Government of Aruba also has an asset-seizure law that allows for seizure at the time of arrest to prevent criminals from moving assets prior to conviction.

The Government of Aruba has recently issued several decrees on money laundering that include increased oversight of casinos and insurance companies. The Government of Aruba also is in the process of instituting reporting requirements for cross-border currency movements in excess of 20,000 Aruban florins (approximately US$11,200). Aruba has a Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU), known as the Meldpunt Ongebruikelijke Transacties (MOT), and is a member of the Egmont Group, 5 an international group of FIUs.

Aruba is not a source country for any of the chemicals used in illicit drug production and has no specific legislation controlling essential chemicals. Difficulties abound when attempting to gauge the levels of chemical transshipment through Aruba, as most chemicals legally pass through Aruba’s Free Trade Zone—an area in which local law enforcement has limited oversight due to local regulations and manpower shortages. The reporting of chemicals transiting the island is strictly voluntary.

The Aruba Organized Crime Unit, a small investigative team of the Aruba Police, or Politie, has responsibility for investigating large-scale drug trafficking crimes. The Coast Guard of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba (CGNAA) is responsible for maritime drug interdictions around Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles. The Governments of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba have agreed to work more closely with the other coast guards operating in the region in order to present a united front against drug trafficking. The CGNAA has its own Criminal Intelligence Division (CID) which is separate from the Politie. However, due to Dutch law, unless the CGNAA can demonstrate that a given vessel is either coming from or going to territorial waters of the Netherlands Antilles or Aruba, any drug law enforcement, other than an administrative boarding, is considered illegal. Dutch investigators also support law enforcement investigations in the Netherlands Antilles.

Cocaine, heroin, and marijuana are readily available in Aruba. Wholesale amounts of cocaine sell for from US$3,800 to US$4,500 per kilogram among drug traffickers; heroin sells for about US$23,000 per kilogram; and marijuana sells for about US$2,000 per kilogram. These low prices suggest a heavy flow of drugs into Aruba. According to Aruban statistics, an estimated 14 percent of Arubans regularly use illicit drugs.

Aruba serves as one of two forward operating locations (FOLs) in the Caribbean for U.S. counterdrug aircraft. The FOL, located at Queen Beatrix Airport near Oranjestad, provides a landing and servicing area for counterdrug detection and monitoring missions in the region. The United States and Aruba do not have a formal maritime law enforcement agreement.

The Kingdom of the Netherlands, including Aruba, is party to the 1988 U.N. Drug Convention, a member of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), 6 and has an MLAT agreement with the United States. The United States–Netherlands extradition treaty of 1980 extends to the Government of Aruba, and provides for the extradition of nationals. Aruba also has criminal procedure code that allows for the extradition of Aruban nationals, subject to their serving any sentences imposed in Aruba. In addition, Aruba is a member of the CFATF.

i know there is seperation of goverment and law enforcement.......but we all know there is behind the scene/under the table influence

LOL!  Be very careful!

Native, I think this goes in cycles. They're nice to us, they're not nice, nice, not nice.

Oh, you meant about the case? Nothing new. I thought that CSS was going to have 2x 24 on today, but nothing.

45 year old woman being held by drug lords? All righty then.

Two things:

THe policeman while insensitive and a doofus is a regular guy caught in the glare of the US press. I think we are used to the media circus, the questions, the intrusiveness, but Arubans aren't.

This is a sleepy island ffull of tourists, booze, casinos and beaches. Now this and in the context of suspicions of transnational crime as a background. The pressure is enormous and while some officials may be covering, we don't know that.

It is not fair to expect them to release all they know, it really isn't. And I think stuff is happening but you cannot make these boys talk short of torture and they are not going to do that.

I have been to many islands over the last 25 years. It is hard to understand that the islandeers I know have pride and are reserved, very. When you push them, they balk. Not because they are bad but because that is their way. They don't spill their guts, go on Jerry Springer and blab like we do.

DEA are stationed on Aruba and have been working with the Aruba govt since 2001. Aruba has a FOLS base and has cooperated very freely with DEA. Probably the DEA agents are well known to the Aruban plice.

Good idea.

The "Government" is anyone who is payed with tax money for whatever job they do.

I hope I'm interpreting that response incorrectly because I certainly hope Prof that you aren't "biting the hand" that feeds us information??????

NO!  I saw em on the beach drinking foofoo drinks!

I think the 45 woman being held by drug lords comes from the report that some AL newspaper led the Twitty's to the wrong suspect....

Hello to all our Aruba friends on tonight! (Nativelingo, arubagirl, and there may be more)

arubagirl,

just so you know....the story i mentioned of a 45 yr old woman being held drug lords was from the black and white paper, which is somewhere in alabama.......

someone pls post a link...i will try to also

I just read that I need 2 go to bed...

u r funny too :wink:

Arubans, the general feel from the fox show was that there is now an anti Amiican feeling.  One man interviewed wants Natalees parents to take a polygraph.

If people are ouchy right now that is why.


Also though they showed some view of your island to explain why it is hard to search, but goodness it is beautiful.

Hey Dallas! (not from Aruba but wanted to say HI anyway)

Party with arubagirl and NativeLingo! Do you wanna visit us?

First we have something hopeful (like the arrest on Friday morning), and then it all goes quiet.

Let's hope for new news tomorrow.  Each day could be THE day that Natalee is recovered and returned to home.

There's no place like home.

Good Evening All,
Haven't been here for a few days and I can't believe all the bizzare things that have happened regarding this case. Here's something I find interesting: I was just surfing around on the Max Arends website that I saw posted over at Riehl World's site, and I was looking at some of the "friends" pages. Well asa I was looking at some of the pics on one of these friends pages I saw this pic (go to link and look at pic titled 'Briphop and'...it's the 3rd row down). Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that Mama Van Der Sloot in the background ?!?! Seems like one big circle of friends huh ??  http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?id=ucX-_LjV26maaus_

Of course... and BTW, tell me TTownMiketorium,
your "habit" of calling one of the suspects "URINE" is a linguistic problem or a psycho problem?
Ah... and which part of your disfunctional "problem" helps to "find our Natalee"? :evil:

I have a question for everyone here.  If this turns out to be much bigger than we originally thought and drugs or sex trade is involved..and the FBI and Aruban LE are working together in Natalee's best interest...to get her back alive...........Will all those bashing the Aruban LE appologize?

We don't know the whole story.  Wizard may have been right all along!

I have been glued to this forum pretty much all day yesterday and today. I keep checking Foxnews.com when you mention that there is breaking news or coverage....they don't seem to update their website with this news...any ideas why?

writenow, I'm very easily tempted by the malls in the U.S.

Must.Resist.Temptation.

I was just saying that because Nikki believes that the monkeys can solve this case.

If you (any of you) believe you can, please come down here and solve it.

Hi Dallas!

The Black and White is kind of like our culture paper...here's the link to the site. http://www.bwcitypaper.com/

Hi all.....finally caught up...geeze....been lurking for a while and wanted to put my 2 cents in....can't buy anything these days with 2 cents..but here goes a try....

IMO....The Arubian LE has stepped up to the plate...they are now figuring it out...just watch..you will see...they are getting to the bottom of things....I also think that the FBI is in this more than we think....like others have said....they are all working together and this case will be solved

Also, I am very impressed by the Arubian citizens...I am ready to go visit..this investigation does not deter me whatsoever.......

AND...I can see why ppl (esp. spokespersons) are getting anal...can you imagine having the paparatzzi (sp?) in your face at all times?  ugghhh

does this mean that a municipal garbage collector is¨"government"?? PLEEEEZE

Whatever....Believe whatever you want.....

Klaassend, if the case gets solved, it's naturally because of the FBI. I mean, isn't that, like, totally logical, like?

I'm sure in Aruba, local TV is national TV!

we have explained dea many times here.  dan has explained dea.  dea was on the island on other business and was asked to check into the matter so he did and the sole USG rep on the island.  Probably did so kicking and screaming.  Beleive me cops don't try to take on matters outside their jurisdiciton.  There are no indicia here for this to be a dea matter.  dea does big drug cases and intel overseas, they don't look for people with joints and small quantities.  Unless you have some factual basis, please lets drop the DEA speculation.  There is nothing there.    

dag is  playing pappi/pachi song....isn't that like first name of
public info official??

From another gov website:http://www.state.gov/g/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2003/vol1/html/29834.htm

Corruption:
 In 2003, the GONA identified certain links from prominent traffickers in the region to law enforcement officials, which prompted additional investigations. The GONA has been quick to address these issues through criminal investigations and prosecutions, internal investigations, new hiring practices, and continued monitoring of law enforcement officials who hold sensitive positions. There is no evidence to indicate that ranking public officials are involved in the shipment of drugs, the laundering of illegal drug proceeds, or in discouraging the investigation or prosecution of drug shipment. To prevent such public corruption, there is an independent Public Prosecutors’ Office and a judiciary that enjoys a well-deserved reputation for integrity. Both jurisdictions maintain close ties with the Dutch legal system, including extensive seconding of Dutch prosecutors and judges to fill positions for which there are insufficient qualified candidates among the small Antillean and Aruban populations.

which public info official? You have Mariaine Croes for the JD, and Ruben Trappenberg for the government.

It was just reported on the Houston news that members of Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team will be leaving Tuesday night for Aruba. Apparently an uncle of NH lives in the Houston area and made a request of help from the group. It didn't say how many would be going but it did say they would be taking two cadavar dogs with them.

Oh, sorry Ting. I did not know that. I always thought CIA agents were secret hush hush can not know them etc.

Arubagirl, if you're ever in Dallas, you just PM me - we've got some great Texas-sized malls!

appologize???  I'll go there personally to.... All the coverage of the island makes me want to go back ASAP......

Ok here's the article that was in the Black and White...my dad found it for me.

http://www.bwcitypaper.com/1pubicindex.lasso?-token.editorialreferral=129206.112112

Elio Nicolaas was the retired Arubian police officer who wrote a letter to the editor of AM Digital a couple of days ago, wondering why the Arubian government wasn't taking advantage of the polygraphic technology offered to them by the FBI. Now, he claims that it is "illegal," as a tool in Arubian investigations, and he wants it to be used against the FAMILY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY.

Folks, them's fightin' words, in case you can't read between the lines.

And it's a perfect 180 degree reversal of his previous position.

And it raises questions about the c-word.

I meant national (CNN) versus local (Aruba TV)...i know I didn't clarify that one...sorry!   :P

Dallas, I KNOW [/Monica from Friends].

Not logical at all to me.  I believe the Aruban LE know exactly what they are doing..they just have different rules they need to abide by than we have in the states.

Can you blame the arubans for feeling like that??
Both Arubagirl and I have been patient..VERY VERY patient....but do you believe that we don´t have our limits??? Do you believe that we are the only ones on these boards????

That should have been done a long time ago. NOTHING motorized can get into the places that a horse can. (Trust you me...but I'm a huge horse fan).

Here is a direct link to the search team:

http://www.texasequusearch.org/

I have not seen such plea, be it on local (ATV/TeleAruba) or national. (you know those channels)

With no offense intended to anyone here, and I will include myself, I think that the news junkie community may be rather dramatically over-represented.

Most people are not news junkies, at any given time, the vast majority of people watching Fox, or CNN or any of them, are just tuning in for the first time that day, and will not be keeping the TV on and tuned to it for most of their waking hours. So what is old hat to us IS breaking news to those folks!

Now I am going to turn off the computer, AND the TV so that you can all flame me to cinders for calling you a news junkie and explain how you can stop any time. Really. any time you want to. No, seriously. It's not even like that. any time.

Native, I would loooooooooooooooooooove to ask the family of NH some questions.

I am a news junkie...it's called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

Seriously...I have it.

My boyfriend just said goodnight to me and again asked, "What are you going to do when they do solve this case?"  Hmm...

Join the club!!!

Regarding sending in "the calvary" from Houston, they may not have had mounted troops looking, but we did send down FBI search-dogs awhile back.

Wait for the next big thing. You should have seen me glued to the TV when the tsumani hit.

She's an art teacher at the Independent School of Aruba...probably just chaperoning a school function.  I think EVERY kid in Aruba must have a tickle.com page!

the cute little girl owner of this page is a student at the international school of aruba where mrs. van der sloot teaches.  there are 120 students.  they use these websites like we used to use yearbooks.  don't read too much into this.  it could also be any middle age dutch woman which might abound on aruba beaches in season.  they have direct flights from amstrdam and it is a dutch possession with warm winters.  

Like what?

I hope there roomies had a good time already!

are there usuaally skid marks on dag
in the middle of a song...pregunta  importante??

I know DEA was already in Aruba. They have an office Curacao and I am aware of the port trafficing problems.

Something warranted 12 FBI agents to come. Something warranted the DEA to go first but it's something will not get an answer too.

My point is over than Aruba not letting information out for legal fairness, there in turn is a tight lip on the FBI etc involved. FBI seems to being playing dodgeball also.

I think perhaps a part of Natalee's disappearance has to do with their ongoing DEA operation. Did anyone see the news about the DEA finally busting one of the largest drug rings? 77 people and millions recovered recently.

No, no. we get frustrated at those handling the INVESTIGATION, not at you all. Please don't think we don't love you oodles.

Arubagirl and Native Lingo, I personally do not place blame on your or your country.  I blame the ones that did this to Natalee,  but please keep in mind that, to some of us, things are moving very slow and we are receiving no information from the authoities.  If that happens here we do demand more from those authorities, so we are use to speaking out.  We are not trying to be offensive at all and very much appreciate any input either of y'all have.

Haha.

SpsII-Thanks for posting that link...I think I just found the activity that my horse and I will be working towards in the future...talk about a way to do some good.

I've been working in resort towns in Mexico and the Caribbean for about thirty years. Girls go missing all the time but usually show up in about 48 hours and for this reason I understand how the Aruban cops initially saw this. Some of these young ladies just plain go nuts, get drunk, do drugs or fall in love and miss thier planes, ditch their buddies..it happens all the time and 99% of the time they suffer nothing worse than a hangover and an overdrawn bank account. (Even girls who are perfect angel do this).

I understand why the cops weren't initially concerned and the comment about how she would show up on ladies night. It happens a lot. Maybe even weekly.

Also, even in the US, the police won't start looking very hard for a missing adult until after 24 to 48 hours. I'm pretty sure that when the Twittys first arrived, the cops were pretty much joking amongst themselves about how Natalee would turn up embarrassed in a day or so.

I have seen this happen many times :?  

I actually think that  Aruba has been handling this well;  they are trying to establish a case that will stick without a body and they don't want to taint it with media bullshit.

I saw that but I could not find a direct link to Aruba.

ARUBA GIRL AND NATIVE....what would you like to ask the parents of natalee?

I'm just asking Native to read the posts, and think about them, and ask around. I appreciate that the natives are our only source of information, and I mean no disrespect. I am only asking for background. Right now, we need it more than ever.

ARUBA GIRL AND NATIVE....what would you like to ask the parents of natalee?

Did something like this happen before?
What did the Rep. mean when he said that there was something "disturbing" about this case that made him sent the FBI inmediately and the family is aware of this?
Why do you keep talking to the press about stuff that someone would think are better to be kept confidential (i.e. the "Steve" thing)
Why in Sam Hill did you guys bring your friends along who are apparantly rich, instead of your relatives.
Were you told about the chaperone sitch or lack thereof?
Do you have a PI on the case
Etc etc etc.

What do you want to ask them? What their FBI briefing sessions have told them?

To Arubagirl and NativeLingo, you guys have pacience. I started posting on here on day one and went only 2 days. Since then this board has become a completly one sided event. As an Arubian in the U.S. I appreciate what you guys are doing. Even though there's so much misinformation going around, you guys try to keep it balanced. Keep it up guys! I know how you guys feel! It's so frustrating when MSM keeps speculating on something this sensitive and most people take everything as they see it. With no consideration whatsoever for the family.
I'll keep praying for Natalee Holloway, wherever she may be! God Bless!

Here is the drug bust story:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050614-110418-8271r.htm

and again, just like my previous post said, I am sure they are going to Aruba as "INVITED GUESTS". Guests go into someones home and are polite, don't outstay their welcome and go home when their hosts want them to.

So I went to Brianna's website... and found a familiar pic of a girl, Jetsy, who I believe was on Joren's younger brother's site.

Not that this has anything to do w/ the case, but I was looking at her comments section, about 3/4 of the way down the page, and noticed a post by our friend Marten, from thailand!

"Jetsy, if you send me any more messages .... I climb on my broomstick, take my few belongings with me .... and zoom at an astromically high speed towards Aruba..... You are so gorgeous ... Hugs, Marten a Dutchman living in Thailand"

Seriously, who is this guy and why has he been mentioned before on SM forum?  A follow up question, WTF is wrong with him???

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=kOq8kdyveeRIuBst

Time for me to make some tea (the calming kind).......BRB

Thank you SPS! lol I am so tired I am getting all the numbers confused. 32 arrested 77mil lmao must sleeeppp soon..

OK. I'm like the last non-cable person in the world, I know. so i'm left with the regular networks.

But NBC's Martin Savage just did a good piece on Beth finding Natalee's digital camera in the room and she's released the pictures -- including her prom (which we already saw on the link today), her graduation, some of the trip to Aruba. beth said she couldn't have looked at these pictures a week ago, but now they just inspire her.

I'm getting the picture about these sites being equivalent to our yearbooks, but read down on the left hand side for friends comments and see what MARTEN has to say....YUCKY guy.

"Marten:
It is no fair .... my broomstick is out of service so I am unable to attend ... Only my Buddha knows how much I would love to meet you all ... and fly back with one of these gorgeous Arubian girls to my nest in Chiang Mai..... Marten ... a Dutchman living in The Land of the Smiles ...."

Boy, I'm glad his broomstick is out of service, so to speak.

i agree
she has had everyones prayers from day one

And a CNN story that ran on the 14th:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/14/drug.money/

Well me and Dash can answer some of that. This has never happened before...nothing like it. Rumors that it has are false. The friends were able to help carry family members and money along, and resources that the family did not have. The immediate family, except her brother and Stepbrother, were flown in immediately. The brothers have since joined the family. The "rich friends" have been able to use their affluence to help in the search. And everyone on the trip, parents, everyone, knew that the kids would not be chaperoned. Waivers were signed.

The police need to change this policy when the family has verifiable proof that the missing person would NEVER behave in that way.  My son is one of those: top student, very mature, high morales.  If he were to go missing for a very small amount of time (such as not showing up in the lobby for the flight home), that would be cause for paramount concern.

I'll apologize.

What's this about sending in the cavalry from Houston?

Sorry, but I've been working on other things today, and haven't been keeping up as closely.

me 2

Me too. This thing seems to have been one big disaster of a culture clash (even though, for those of you who followed the sort of philosophical discussion going on earlier this afternoon, I still maintain that common decency knows no cultural bounds).

Okay, so the rumours about Natalee disappearing before are false.

So, what about the U.S. reps remarks? Those really really really have me intrigued.

http://www.texasequusearch.org/

I don't see anything about Aruba in these articles, am I missing something?

Yes, they are false. She never ran away before. Those were horrible rumors.

Same here...but I'm betting he doesn't know the whole story either.
There's no way for us to know, though. He isn't going to tell, and he shouldn't.

I wonder how those rumours start. I really do. Okay, scratch that one off the list.

We can answer a few of them:
1. already established, Natalee has never been missing before.
2. Dunno
3. Because they're stressed to the max and hanging on by a thin thread and they really feel like just smacking some people around but they're too polite to do that
4. whaaa?? relatives are down there. father and step-father both have their brothers down there. stepfather's mother is there. tons of friends and family. wha chew talking 'bout sister?
5. yes, all families knew the chapers were NOT babysitters
6. probably

No, but it could explain why the DEA was already there. They have been working in the area on this bust for quite some time. Not sure if Aruba has anything to do with this bust. I am still researching that.

Arubagirl...I am intrigued also....wondering what he knows...or thinks he knows.... one of those things that makes you say hmmmm

Nunya Damn business!  It's my problem and you can kiss my as_!  And I'll be sure not to read any more of your crap.  TROLL!

Aruba, it is somewhat normal in this country for wealthy friends to step in and help when the family might be middle class.

A friend of mine had a daughter who was about to die and a wealthy man in our town flew her to the daughter for free, or rather had his company jet do it.

I read that the freinds have rotated in and out in order to support the family.

Explain what is strange about that--again we may have a culture problem that just needs talking through.

Don't worry, Fox will find another sensational storry for you :D

(

:shock: ---> :D

maby its all at the hotels,
you know sec gaurds and the nt auditors
blah blah blah

like soca???

Dan Riehl reported them originally.

Neither he nor Dan elaborated. At first I thought it was because of the apparent possibility that a sexual crime of some sort had been committed.

But I later considered that she might have been sold into the sex trade, which would be even more disturbing than a simple rape. (Please forgive me, if anyone close to Natalee is reading.)

The quick involvement of the DEA and the FBI might indicate that she's been kidnapped and packed away to another country not far from Aruba.

Still don't think that's the most plausible scenario. But it might explain the frustrating lack of information.


http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/disturbing_deve.html

According to the Alabama Post-Herald, I'm sure it's that one because it was the only one I read from AL, the Twittys were seen departing with in a private jet with prominent Birmingham businessmen.
Fair enough, no word about relatives, wether they were there enough. I just found that a bit odd, to choose those people to fly with instead of your family.
But it's also possible that the inmediate family flew with that same flight, but the newspaper didn't report that.

Ahh, MBH, he should not have to, yes, but a lot of people here are calling for the cops here to reveal what they know.

Technically they weren't FBI. They were Miami Dade florida Police Department search and rescue dogs and handlers who go all over the world to things like earthquakes, etc. looking for survivors.

Thanks, SPSII. I thought it might be that they were sending in FBI reinforcements from Houston. My cousin is an agent there.

Aruba, I don't know the size of the jet, but I did hear the stepmother say that they flew the next morning which was the first reservation they could get.  

I think some of the others waited till the next day because everyone hoped that she had just missed the plane.

Plus, for some who do have children and jobs, you just can't jump up and leave.  So it took a few days for other family to get there.

Someone mentioned to me last night that another organization may have a large stake in this. There seems to be some evidence that the Internet and the child/teen pornography industry is involved in this case. If that is so, especially since the Netherlands is the ultimate authority here, INTERPOL may play a role. They focus on this kind of thing in the Netherlands like a laser beam.

And I have no doubt that The Company (you know who I mean  :wink: ) also has their fingers on this as well.

I wouldn't discount any LE organization at this point.

Well family went with them...and they chose those people, because those people offered them help...and rumors abound here as to how much help (money wise), but factually, it's a good bit. Also, it's a way to fly down in private, so that the family could have time to get the facts and collect themselves. A commercial flight under the circumstance of a missing daughter...the airlines are horrible.

It's important that they not reveal anything that could harm the investigation.

You also have to remember the Twitty's left very soon after they received word of Natalee's disappearance.  Others probably have to make arrangements about their work, or their kids, or a million reasons.  The Twitty's, due to the situation, dropped everything and left immediately, maybe others could not leave that soon.

Just wondering. What questions would you ask?

Thank you for the details there, I appreciate it.

Regarding the dogs, I much prefer "here, find the scent" dogs to cadaver dogs.

Keep those "find the scent" dogs doing their job!

And keep those three guys in prison, they'll break.  It doesn't get more comfortable in there as time goes on, it becomes more agonizing.

mbhs05

I wondering how you and your classmates are doing. Are those of you who want help getting it? Is there anying that you know of that your classmates or the family needs?

Bon nochi Jairo :wink:

ok...not a crackpot here........but i talked to someone with relations to the fbi, they said that the detectives in aruba have expressed a desire to have the fbi take the lead but higher ups don't want that for assorted reasons-ie, pride and public appearance.........

isn't finding the girl the most important thing???

And yet, "Steve". On the air. Should I attribute that to stress?

Probably becuase some chaperones reported the drug pushers. :shock:

If they are cooperating, I think who is "in the lead" becomes academic.

Best results have them working shoulder to shoulder.

I think we're ok with Aruba taking the lead, because the FBI has to work within the laws of Aruba.

The laws of Aruba are helpful in some ways, since they have a lower requirement prior to arresting someone.  And apparently, you can't bail out someone who has been arrested.

What is the steve question?  I honestly don't understand that one?

Thank you, but we're pushing along ok. Most of us are worried sick, but we can go about our lives ok. I've talked to her roomates and they are doing as well as they can. They're turning to each other for help. Thank you for being so concerened though!!!!!

It seems that Beth Twitty said that "Steve" would know everything on Fox.
Lo and behold, they arrest Steve Croes.

Juvenal said in part

I started to look at my maps of Venezuela, particularly looking at the little peninsula pointing at the southern tip of Aurba: Penisula de Paraguana...that'd be only 24 miles or less, but 24 from the Aruba capitol.

Then when I saw the proximity of Columbia and all the rest of the SA countries that I usually pay little attention to and started to read about Aruba's history and its reputation as a traders place for several hundred years, I became a little more concerned.  

Fascinating history.

this was essentially the message today on the radio which i did not translate for you.  the us media and the holloways are ganging up on aruba and applying unbearable pressure which is distracting them from the task at hand.  They are doing their best, they are just as concerned about natalee as anyone outside her immediate circle and they are uncomfortable with the blame, the impatience, and criticism they are being bombarded with.  There is plenty of blame to go around.  Why is the Alabama contingent not called to account for possible negligence in supervising the group?  Why is the underage drinking and other funny stuff only Aruba's fault and not of the ones who came to partake of it?  That kind of thing.  I don't know if I do it justice but they are feeling the heat beyond the point where they can do anything about it and think it unfair.  An example is this poor emt who is working on th Natalee search at Red Cross and is being teased because some blog has inseeted him into the conspiracy.  

"Two things:

THe policeman while insensitive and a doofus is a regular guy caught in the glare of the US press. I think we are used to the media circus, the questions, the intrusiveness, but Arubans aren't.

This is a sleepy island ffull of tourists, booze, casinos and beaches. Now this and in the context of suspicions of transnational crime as a background. The pressure is enormous and while some officials may be covering, we don't know that.

It is not fair to expect them to release all they know, it really isn't. And I think stuff is happening but you cannot make these boys talk short of torture and they are not going to do that.

I have been to many islands over the last 25 years. It is hard to understand that the islandeers I know have pride and are reserved, very. When you push them, they balk. Not because they are bad but because that is their way. They don't spill their guts, go on Jerry Springer and blab like we do.[/quote]

Thank you Dallas....you seem to understand....

MAYBE IT ISN'T "ANOTHER REASON" ANYMORE... :wink:

whitney, I've heard, don't know where, so can't give you any thoughts on validity of source, that authorites were in Andicora.

But do NOT know if that is true.

Those remarks have haunted me as well.  The statement was issued immediately in Birmingham, but Fox didn't pick up on it until Thursday or Friday of the week this all began.  Maybe that's normal for the media, but that fact has always bothered me.  Spencer Bachus' statement sounds so sinister and like he knows exactly what is going on, but I haven't found anyone who knows the real meaning of it.  Not much help am I???

They have undercover DEA agents on the ground. Probably reported a girl was to be sold into the sex trade the same time Natalee disappeared - just my hunch.

mbhs05, you were kind to share this website with Dash, it seemed to get her through some hard times.

Seems to be important to a number of us.

I wouldn't have stayed involved so much, had I not had that dream about Natalee.  It's a message and a hope.

Let them know they can "lurk" here without posting or identifying themselves.  That's important, because we have some press in here, some who I think are freelancers looking for a story.  Those folks tend to interrogate people, really press for details and for sources.  Kinda drives ya batty, if ya let it.

No one has to answer a question that is asked of them in here.

mbhso5,

love the eyes.

Arubagirl said

I totally missed that one...

You will find this fascinating then. A huge drug bust just happened and it involved Columbia:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050614-110418-8271r.htm

I can answer one, I think. Why they bring along friends who are rich. Because their friends are wealthy and because they could use some support.

As for the PI, I am sure they have at least one.

But what is the "Steve thing?"

nothing is official arubagirl.  we all know that by now. on a lighter note,
do u like soca??  calypso??

<<So, what about the U.S. reps remarks? Those really really really have me intrigued.>>

Could it be that having a lead suspect's father with judiciary and law enforcement connections is viewed problematic?

And the family had nothing to do with getting Steve Croes' name out to the public.

Professor, I meant with the friends is friends instead of rel. but someone, sorry, forgot who, explained it already to me

Seems Beth Twitty spoke the name "Steve" on air on Fox.

Guy by same name got arrested.

They know, but they prefer to keep away from internet talk. There has already been an internet spat between members of our class, and I think they're staying away.

But Dash found this one on her own! Smart girl. haha.

They have already contacted me more than once, but even if I was willing, I have no answers.

Of course, I will pass this on in case, but they are trying to stay away from the internet. THanks for suggestions though!!!

Well, come on up! I prefer to shop online because I [sigh] really hate to shop in crowded malls (how lazy is that? but then I've been glued to this computer for weeks), but for YOU, I'm there for ya!

That doesn't sound like an unreasonable reaction to me.  Except that I would excuse almost anything that comes from the Holloway/Twittys.  Given the circumstances their behavior has been exceptional.

I think she accidently revealed the name of the suspect who was only supposed to have his initials given.

haha thanks....that's as close as anyone will get to seeing me. Only people who know me will know who I am...but yeah I have a Photoshop addiction. Can't help making pictures like that...my eyes are almost black in person, but the flash makes them purtier:)

Natalie's mom mentioned Steve when all anyone knew at the time was SGC.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

Well, I really don't have anything to apologize but..... OK. me too!

I like the angle you are checking out.  I too am surprised at the magnitude and exposure, perhaps even exagaration of Aruba in the Press. On one hand I can 't see Aruba coorperating with FBI and yet have the name of Aruba getting so many negative press.  It almost seem that some concerted effort is being done to destablelize the current government by undermining the current economy...Too early to say. and I am left wonder what did the Arubian Gov't do lately that would prompt this. (i.e just extending relationships to Cuba can cause such rift .. see what happened in Jamaica when Manley went to Cuba)..

Right..hundreds of girls are stolen and sold into the sex trade from Aruba, but it has never ever been mentioned before. Natalle is a pretty young girl but really nothing special; sex rings don't really like to get in the news and there are plenty of much more beautiful blonde women who can be trafficed from Europe.  This whole trading her for a gambling debt sounds like something from a Romance novel.

DEA regularly liases with local governments to cooperate on cases, exchange intel, familiarize, etc.  No mystery here. Why does it keep coming up?  DEA has a large presence overseas because that is where most of the drugs consumed in the US come from.  Aruba sits betwen Colombia and the US.  It is a natural transit point.  We watch it.  That is not Aruba's fault.  It is a matter of geography.  Aruba cooperates with us.   Without them and others like them we would be lost.  This is something the Neocons seem to ignore.  We live in a world where we have to work together, not alone.  This current cooperation with Aruban LE is an example.  Alone, the FBI could do nothing in Aruba.  They don't know the culture, the language, the geography, the legal system,  It has to be an investigation where each part give what they have and do best.  that is how it is out there.  No magic bullet.  Uncle Sam does not know everything and can't do everything.  

FYI...The DEA is ALWAYS in Aruba...

Okay, here's a question that has probably already been asked at some point, but I don't recall it if it has.

I know that there was some sort of Soul Festival on the island the night she went missing.  Were there people coming in boats from other surrounding islands for that event?  I'm assuming there probably were.  What if Joran really did take Natalee to the beach near the Marriott by himself and then walked her back (or maybe not walked her back) to the HI.  At some point a person attending this festival could have grabbed her, put her on their boat and away they go.  Maybe no one even saw this happen, unless it might possibly be the report of someone seeing 2 men grabbing a girl near there.

I'm just thinking maybe we're not getting any real info because there is no more info to tell by these suspects, witnesses, etc.  They've told what they know, and these unknown persons just whisked her away.  If their stories differed, maybe it's because they knew they were with her and she was missing and they were scared.  So being young and unworldly they just tried to deflect the attention from themselves.  I honestly can see a lot of the teenagers I know doing something like this, just because they wouldn't think it through and would be scared.

SPSII Thanks for the link...and it just goes to my point....

When I thought "Aruba"....I just blanked on its proximity to our nemesis Venezuela and Colombia....geez...Medellian (sic) is sooooo close.

My favorite calypso is sung by Ruben Trappenberg, the guy who is the government spokesman.

It's so damn funny.

Be back in a bit everyone. I head a nice hot relaxing bath calling my name.... ((Hugs))

I don't think that's very fair. If the Aruban gov't wanted to extend diplomatic relations with Cuba, and the U.S. gov't was unhappy about that, they would say so, not clandestinely try to ruin Aruba's economy.

YES. And frantic frustration.

is steve also on the air in aya?
or is that harri?

arubagirl, could you see your PM's please.

I don't think the FBI really gets involved in the sex trade from foreign countries. I think it's a function of Natalee being American. I'll post up the statement for you.

LOL! Are you serious? Can you explain? I'm really interested in that!

did i hear that at carnival?
sorry it wuz cxld there/ i heard that somewhere
not officially

Thanks for clearing that up.

Aruba girl, I think it was probably just not knowing. In our counry except for minors, and frankly Jorans name might even be withheld, arrests are public record.  
Some newspapers  publish a blotter of every call just about the police make.
So we would think nothing about mentioning a name.  Now with minors their names are usually withheld.  They woud say for instance  John Doe, Jane Doe, and a juvenile were arrested.

Even if she had been told not to use the name, with all the stress, it would be so new and different she would forget.

I think it is as simple as our police blotters being public record.

It still doesn't list the countries in the Caribbean that cooperated in the drug bust but if you look down you will see Curacao is listed under U S Drug Enforcement Administration.
Did Joran's dad make a recent trip there after Natalee's disappearance?  I know the judge on the case is from there.   I believe that the two waiting extradition to the US are in prison there.

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/pressrel/pr061405.html

Here are some interesting (disturbing) comments from U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills,

U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances surrounding Holloway’s disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved. He declined to give details.

“The circumstances were disturbing,” said Bachus, who formally requested the FBI’s involvement. “I can’t get into it, but it’s something the family is aware of. There was an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off.”

Maybe that´s why they shouldn´t be giving her all the info!?!?!?

Arubagirl, that was an American mistake.

In America, when someone is arrested, as long as they are 18 years old or older, their name is announced.

Beth Twitty is accustomed to that approach regarding people who are arrested.

One time last year, a guy in Dallas was arrested for child molestation, and he was a teacher.  His name was announced.  24 hours later, he had committed suicide.  Really, the press had destroyed his reputation, but that is our common approach when someone is arrested.

Even if it is someone popular like our popular actor Russell Crowe who was arrested last week for throwing a telephone at a hotel employee.

omfg does that sound good cali!
nite

hearin' this calypso beat in the background and  Ruben Trappenberg snapping his fingers, movin' his head back and forth and singin', "what you have to understand is our laws aren't the same as yours; we never hear about these cases, ever; we know to talk about the investigation, it could fatally jeopardize our case."

moves, back and just listens to the calypso beat...

Of course the FBI doesn't, but this doesn't signify, Foriegn tourists are not being stolen from the dutch antilles, mexico or st croix. American or euro or from oz, it ain't happening .

Maybe this is why the family changed "MISSING" to "KIDNAPPED" on the flyers??????

He sings? Wow...

Yeah, I wonder if he had any 18 yr old blonde girls with him on the trip over there... :roll:

Well, count me sarcastic too !!!
Curious---  just what is considered a crime on Aruba ??

Hey....I have some questions for those of you who have been following this from the beginning...what really happened when she left CnC's?

What did her friends say early on about her departure?

I've heard that she said she'd see them in a few minutes, sort of implying that the guys were just giving her a ride.  Did any of the students report anything else....like she was being lured away or something?   I guess what I'm wondering is did any student specifically say what happened when she left, or is just sort of generalizations from foggy memories?

Were any of the students partying with her and the three guys?

Any info on if the brothers had been with the group before?

TIA.

Right. Have you ever noticed how the newspapers always give the age and address of the person arrested? That's so nobody with the same name is confused with the perp.

Also, have you noticed how with our country's most notorious criminals, they usually use the person's full name: John Wayne Gacy, Lee Harvey Oswald. That's so nobody else named Lee Oswald will have to get phone calls from curiosity seekers.

I didn't catch that change in the flyer.

hello...have i missed anything since page 47 of #10?

i am way too lazy to try and read all that.....

thanks

Aruba has a very low crime rate.

I suspect that their police have never had to handle a case with this much attention and it has to be tough on them.

Arubagirl, I wonder about the Rep's comments also.

Unless the DEA agent has contacts that let him know something was up, I have no clue how so early in the case he would need to call the FBI.

If you can't give a source you should be careful what you say.  Someone mentioned does not cut it.  company does not do law enforcement and even the FBI role overseas is limited to crime with a us connection.  I know from years in the biz.    

For me, it is ok that the investigation is dragging on.  

It can take quite some time to get someone back that has been grabbed.

But for example, there is a rumor that she was held in Lorenzo's basement.

Well, we can test that basement and see if she was there.  If she was, that is good news.  That means we're onto the trail that leads to her.

I will look forward to more news tomorrow.  I think we have 20 or more FBI there, I am trying to think back through all the stories.

I think that is a very large contingency.  And it is important.  They are the best in the world.

What we consider to be a crime is the same as in the U.S.

It doesn't happen that often, I don't suppose it would be good for the tourism business. But it does happen - Amy Bradley for example. Probably a lot more that doesn't get reported. My point is , that from the Rep's statement - it looks like they had some detailed information.

<<If this turns out to be much bigger than we originally thought and drugs or sex trade is involved..and the FBI and Aruban LE are working together in Natalee's best interest...to get her back alive...........Will all those bashing the Aruban LE appologize?>>


If the crime - whatever its scope or subject matter, whatever the current level of LE cooperation - if its genesis lies with JVDS and the Kalpoe brothers... then any investigation is affected by the decisions made by Aruban LE in the beginning.

So, if that's the case, then no, I won't be apologizing.

LMAO...no doubt....

Aruba's crime rate is very low believe me, i lived there,  it was  somthing like 3 murders in the past 3 4 years, i think this is also the reason why this case is taking so long, there not used to stuff like this happening, i was in shok when i heard it.......................

Lorenzo has a basement in his house? I do not know many homes in Aruba having a basement.  I think because the ground is like pure rock...

Hi all, just logged in. been browsing other sites looking for leads. Just saw the Fox rerun. Is it possible that the official spokespersons plan on saying the same thing for another three weeks?  I respect another countries legal system but C'MON........ this is really strange. :!:

But for example, there is a rumor that she was held in Lorenzo's basement.

Folks....can someone fill me in on who Lorenzo is  ??? Thanks

Politician=media whore Trying to give the impression that he is on the inside track (why would he be? How could that happen?) Politician spouting his mouth off to gain a few votes.

Lorenzo is a guy that got held in for questioning.

Remember the whole Lorenzo basement thing is a R-U-M-O-R.

So Joran has been crying alot. Too bad he is crying about himself and loss of freedom instead of what was done to Natalee. I can't believe experienced adults can't crack crying kids.

Woodguy...Lorenzo van Rijn...rumored to be the illegitimate sone of Paulus vd Sloot and step brother to Joran.

Who has been called in for questioning.  I believe Diario(?) said he'd held Nat in his basement....allegedly one of the few basements in Aruba.

At this point...the allegation is regarded as rumor I believe.

You're welcome. I think you can tell that this community will provide whatever support is needed for your classmates and Natalee's family.  

In so many ways Natalee is the kind of girl we hope our own girls will grow up to be. Natalee's vanishing is a deeply felt loss here, even among those of us who do not know her. I honestly don't know how her mom has been able to be so strong through this.

guy is crzty...look at the house
he prob spent years wacked out smokin
crack diggin it out.  i don't know him but no one says he is any good

No. It was on St. Lucia -- the island (as opposed to Santa Lucia, Aruba.)

Must attend to some stuff...see most of U tomorrow!

i agree with you on that one, i think its just absurve(my english spelling is bad) but then again since  nothing like this ever happens on the island these 'grown people" dont know how to deal i guess, i think they should startletting the FBI help with this, at least a polygraph gram whatever that is, it gives us all a piece of mind

Luna:  You touched on a problem.  They are silent on this.  We had Alana here and she was pretty straight but did obfuscate on the specifics of getting in the car.  I wonder if Natalee had any real close friends on the trip who actually knew what she was doing and looked out for her.  One gets the impression that she slipped through the cracks.  How could they not notice she was gone until the asembly at 10:30 the next morning?   Did she have special boy or girlfriends on the trip.  What about her other room mates?  I really think these people need to step forward although we are assured that they have been interviewed by FBI.  

********THEORY**********

HOLY CRAP!!!

It just hit me..

Natalee has been kidnapped and is being ransomed.  The family knows, the Aruban authorities know, the FBI knows, but whover did it said "NO PRESS..or the girl dies."   Look at everything that fits.

1. Jug's comment about negotiations.
2. The fruitless searches (dog and pony show) and misinformation (diversions).
3. The lack of information (being blamed on the "Dutch system")
4. Beth's apparent 'belief' (knowledge) that Nat is alive.
5. The US government official's comment about sending FBI and something disturbing and the family knows.
6. Lack of body
7. 3 suspects 'silence'
8. Diario editors recent comments falling straight off the radar almost immediately (snuffed out).
9. Family's 'frustration' at not being kept informed (easy way to shift media pressure off the family)
10. The throat slashing 'message' being sent.
11.
12.
13.

What else am I leaving off?

It ALL fits.  No sex trafficking. No columbian drug cartel.  Just a simple case of kidnapping for ransom with the threat of death if 'real story' gets to the press.

How do you know and our FBI lets our leaders know when something is going on. I can't believe they won't even tell her parents if she is dead or not. And they should know if they are not stupid!

 

no it was santa lucia mi dushi

we know from a fellow aruban that it has been alleged that one of lorenzo's houses has a basement.  Why has it not been searched?  

There is another suspect I would question...The taxi driver.  I believe reading some earlier stories where the chaparon and the mysterious DEA went to the casino to find out this Dutch man by the name of Joran.  Then they went tc CnC to find more info...and that is when some from CnC said to take to this taximan.  They did and then got the full name to do next the meeting face by face at Van Der Sloot homes..  But in shor the taximand seems to know a lot as well..he knows Joran, and who knows more of Joran.

They've stepped forward to the FBI, but I think they are right to otherwise remain in the shadows. These girls are guys are going to be persecuted and crucified if they speak to the media. It isn't fair at all, and I think they are right to remain silent to the media. It doesn't matter what they say, people will still attack them. THey do not need that right now.

This Site has what the FBI investigates:  http://www.fbi.gov/hq.htm

I'd appreciate it if someone coulld tell me what on this list applies to this case because I can't figure it out.

From reports I've read the family was told early on that they think Natalee was murdered. But how can anyone be certain without a body?

What reports??

Rich...for this to be true wouldn't "THEY" have to know in advance how much money Natalee's family had or something?? I mean you don't just pick out any old girl and HOPE they have a bunch of money for ransom!!

Exactly MB. We have enough victims we don't need anymore! They have been through enough!

RichinTX....actually kind of a compelling argument!  Given the collection of info...

Only question I would have re this is how are Joran et al. involved?  Did they assist or just drop her off somewhere where she was randomly kidnapped?  That's the part that doesn't compute....  Not to say your theory is not correct, tho.

Diario must be selling a lot of papers nowadays! They're the only ones with any information.  :lol:

Tell that to the innocent guy in baltimore who was shot in the face with an M-4 by an FBI clod because he kinda looked like a criminal and amazingly couldn't both open his car door and raise both his hands at the same time.  Not only that, the FBI "agent" had a prior innocent wounding.  the list goes on.
don't assume the Arubans are inferior; they know the culture and have the intel, which is most of the game.  they look dumb like the fox to me.

 I do have something to add to this theory but perhaps I am better off quiet on the subject.

Very Nice looking young american girl... What more do you want out of a kidnap victum....   Majority of the Americans that visit there likely have more money than most people in Aruba... From my previous visits the island. Once you leave the hotels, the place is DIRT POOR...

KerinTX,
Not necessarily.  THEY could have figured that where the money came from was the family's problem and that there was a pretty good chance that alot of the 'kids' that came to Aruba had parents that could afford to send them.  Maybe Joran meeting Nat several days before hand was no accident , maybe Joran was 'casing' the potential victims.

hey dj!  how is miami?

This was posted on CNN June 4:

Authorities say there is no evidence the honors student and Mississippi native was abducted, but police commissioner Jan van der Straaten said "after four or five days you are afraid a crime has been committed."

Yes, nitjus, we're all dirt poor with computers and DSL connection.

::Banging head against computers continues::

You mean the house in Savaneta? What exactly is wrong with the house? And is that the house where his father hung himself? :roll:

this is a very credible possibility.  maybe they lost contact and are sweating.  i saw a case like that where contact was cut off and they waited weeks before they heard again.  this was some American fishermen taken out of venezuela into colombia by guerillas.  They even took the plane!  Family finally met the ransom demand delivering a suitcase of cash in the jungle they were released.  No fbi, only a poor overworked Consul in over his head.    

seriously...you are saying that a pretty girl in a foreign country, on a HS trip, no one knows her locally (what her family does, how much money, connections, etc) but yet you have a bunch of kidnappers who say "hey, let's snatch THAT girl and hope her family has the million dollars we will ask for"??
Maybe if she was a celebrity, well known daughter of a US politician...ANYONE who could have been known in another country but we are talking about a normal US HS student from small town USA, not Bill Gates daughter!

Two years ago we had a family member kidnapped in the U.S.  Our local police dept suggested WE call the fbi, we did, and they came.

RichinTX:

You may be on to something.  Early on in this deal, a poster on Free Republic repeated rumors that it was a ransom deal, and posted a link to the company website of a "wealthy Birmingham businessman" who was going to pay the ransom for the family.  Another Freeper close to NH demanded that the post be pulled because "it will get people killed."  She was very insistent, and posted this message urgently several times.

Do police in the US search houses without a search warrant on the basis of internet rumours? I hope not, I really do.  Please consider this:

These are real people, not much different than you. There is no conspiricy here..Some kinf of of drug/sex /accident  happened and some young boys are trying to do a coverup. Maybe their parents are trying to protect them..but they are NOT GOING TO BE TRIED by the media or fox news, and I respect them for that.

Has that happenend to Dash & Ed who have gone public?

::: random scream::: Deepak

Sorry I think I am devolping terets lol

Ah, kinda like here in Tennessee.  I knew I felt a connection.

Sorry Arubagirl.... Not knocking it. Love the island and have hated all the negitive publicity.  Just stateing an observation from my past visits.

Let slide Arubagirl......Ignorance is bliss.....

Yeah, CNN said they had a confession and a body too. Then they dropped the whole story.  :lol:

no, it has not, but keep in mind that Dash wasn't one of her roomates. The chaperones and the roomates WILL be harassed. I definetely think that remaining silent to the media is a good desicion on their parts.

Assuming your family does not have a ton of money...if I kidnapped you don't you think that your family would find a way to come up with the dough.  Maybe that's what is taking so long...they are having adifficult time meeting the demand and are negotiating.  Again...it's just a theory that is fit to the facts.

DIRTPOOR? Where did you drive? Only in Rancho?

Seriously, I'd like to believe that I'm not completely blind with my island, so I can assure you that I'm not seeing the dirt-poorness.

My colleagues are so going to laugh about this one.

I totally agree with you on that.  These kids do not need a bunch of info hungry media hounding them.  If it were my kid I would definately boycott the idea due to the huge potential for them to be harassed/dissed/humiliated by the media as well.

Thanks Aruba and Luna.....Whew !!! the guessing game gets more intricate by the hour !! I also tend to agree with Katya....sounds like the Senator is just trying to look good. If in fact this is some kidnapping/drug related international matter you would hope that he would know better than to shoot his mouth off. Looking back I recall that he made sure that the whole world knew that he got the FBI involved on behalf of the family, blah, blah, blah....This was like the 2nd day that Nat was missing and all I could think was that her family was just thrown into a nightmare and all he was worried about was making sure he got credit. Katya's right....a media whore. :evil:

Could Drummond Coal in Jasper be involved? This sort of thing is certainly not new to that particular company.

Please read this list of blunders from Aruba. See If you can understand their frustation.

http://www.bwcitypaper.com/1editorialbody.lasso?-token.folder=2005-06-16&-token.story=129206.112112&-nothing

Hey Kerin in TX...maybe you're not aware of the high rate of kidnappings in Colombia and other S Am countries?  They kidnap regulary ordinary Americans all the time...usually contractors....who obviously aren't related to Bill Gates.  Of course the kidnappers are hoping that their companies will come through and pay the ransom.  Remember that movie with Meg Ryan and Russell Crowe?

Anyway....not really that far of a stretch that they'd pick any American teen....altho as someone mentioned Joran could have been setting her up.
____________

CaliGirl.....would love to hear your thoughts?  Please?

Just a thought to explain some... :
When anyone want to add 2+2 but try to IMPOSE the result as 5 then it's obvious nothing "computes" :!:

I'm going to bed
Bye.

I looked for the delete button but it disappeared.  :lol:

Nite Arubagirl :D

KKM:

I can't remember the name of the company.  But I think they made pipe, and had offices all over the world, including South America.

So, did that suposedly come from Diario? (about holding Nat that is)

Can you elaborate?

Early on I kinda bought into the slavery theory but I just can't imagine some professional human trafficking org. spending 3 weeks trying to get 1 person off of Aruba. If slavery is involved, I believe NH is somewhere else, not Aruba. Someone, somewhere knows where she is. I just hope the authorities in Aruba are on top of the case and just not buying time hoping the press will eventually go away. (No offense to Aruban people, they've been great)

I know where the plane and the help came from, at least...

Aruba is not Ecuador or Pakistan.

Maybe the wrong girl was taken? From the photos, there seemed to be many blondes in the group. Did the plane owner's daughter go on the trip?

i have white out all over my screen guy!! :wink: lol

AYO....Teeeeeeeeeee Mañan :wink:

bon soir.

Maybe so but I guess there's worse things in this world you could be than a "media whore" . Kidnapper, murderer, drug dealer comes to mind... :shock:

it depends on how much ransom you want the colombians don't care.  they just name a figure and wait for it.  they know you can always get a home equity loan.  they have time  maybe they found nat on the internet or maybe they took her randomly, or maybe they were pissed after the confrontation with her and the chaperone (if it happened) and lured her into their trap.  It is a scenario that i mentioned a few days ago.  

wolfeladyinbama Says:

June 20th, 2005 at 12:37 am
The late local news was just on due to the NBA playoffs and they reported live from Aruba that the parents have hired a local attorney on the island to kind of be a “go between” and in the hopes that the authorities would be more forthcoming in their information. They interviewed the step-father “Jug” and he stated they felt this was a good move at this point due to the fact that they had been on the island for so long. Will report anything else I hear.

Been doing a little research to be sure.

The FBI does get involved with Americans kidnapped in foreign countries, not just this case.http://www.milaredo-online.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14600814&BRD=2290&PAG=461&dept_id=473478&rfi=6

I know it is so bad here now that my kids friends--we have moved away--no longer go across, and we used to treat is as one city and never really even thought much aobut the border.  I used to buy many things routinely over there, would walk across with just my two little kids, and walk right back after shopping.

FBI involved--see agents quote.

McWane is the pipe company.  Only helping on a personal level as far as I understand.  However, Drummond Coal has had at least one employee kidnapped and successfully returned.

Neither Drummond or McWane is a last name of girls in my class, but there are some here in MB. I don't think they were on the trip.

Dallas:

Are you speaking about moi? I am not here looking for a story!  Is this what you've conjured up in response to my request that YOU act responsibly and not make statements that just aren't true!  

I ask for some simple ethical standards here because that's what's fair and proper.  I do think it's wrong for friends and families of Natalee to come here and get the WRONG idea.  AND, I think it's wrong to name names and tie dreadful POSSIBLE scenarios to those names without good reason!!!

I was drawn to this case for some odd reason, and if I'm going to spend my time studying this I want to know I've got the facts straight.  Why would anyone want to study or discuss a case based on half truths, rumours and innuendo?  Not me.

If you're going to report "news" I suggest you Google the newest standards for online grassroots news reporting and also for blogging.

It's sad to think people like you consider a request for truth and some basic ethical standards to be a smoke screen?!?!  For a story? I am not a freelancer.  And, believe me I don't need to hang around a crime forum to find a story!!!  I would be on a plane to Aruba or Georgia. You don't do great stories sitting at a computer screen in an office!

Get a grip there Dallas.  You're damn right I'm a stickler for facts and sources!!!  Natalee deserves it and so do the people in Aruba.

~Nancy

I would rather that the public not know who did, and did not, go on the trip.  I get a little nervous about that.  There are lurkers on this and other chatboards.

I don't think he was talking about you. There ARE freelancers here. They've contacted me and Dash already. That's what he's talking about, I'm sure.

Agreed.

I have already expressed my willingness to apologize, if this investigation turns out to be something more that a simple date-rape gone bad. But I have to admit that the posts of this day have really opened my eyes.
1. When I see posts which indicate that it is "rude" to knock on doors after 10pm, when searching for a missing daughter;
2. When I see posts that indicate that local custom considers "blood to be thicker than water," and which excuse the harboring of known felons;
3. When hear retired police officers -- who, two days earlier were wondering why the local authorities weren't taking advantage of polygraphic technology offered by the FBI -- claiming that the family of the victim should be subject to polygraphs;
4. And when I read posts which indicate that native Arubians believe that they are extending a "courtesy," by allowing a grieving mother to inquire about a missing daughter. . . . .
it makes me wonder who is the #1 PR problem in Aruba today. And my feeling is that it isn't Dee Fine. It's the people of Aruba, themselves.
Think about it, folks. There are plenty of beautiful beaches along the Redneck Riviera. There is Perdido Key and Destin, and Panama City. Further down south, there is Key West, where Jimmy Buffet hangs out. And it isn't considered rude to knock on doors in search of a missing girl. And where people aren't eager to have the tourists leave, and leave their tourist dollars behind.

I'm not condemning anybody. Different cultures have different values, and I'm not saying that one is necessarily better than another. I'm just saying that Arubian values and American values just ain't the same.

I still believe that Joran killed her....behind the Marriot after the brothers dropped him and Nat off. He than called Deepak ('I have to tell you something') for help. Deepak alone came back, took VDS and Nat back to VDS's house where they moved her body to the red jeep and took her somewhere on the island to get rid of her. I believe that VDS's father knew about it and helped. I think that all the people being questioned/arrested now are people that the police/fbi may have observed VDS talking to during the 12 days that they were free. Also could be people that sold him drugs (date rape type) I think an international kidnapping plot is a little far fetched even though anything is possible.

RE:  Kidnap/Ransom Theory

Just my opinion (and gut feeling), but I think we ought to drop this subject pronto.

Not usually.  This is cross border cooperation.  if somebody get taken in kenya you probably won't see FBI involved.  But you are right they are more likely to go in on a kidnapping than a murder.  

I'm pretty sure that it was posted from Diario, but I could be wrong.....I remember seeing it written here earlier today .  If not Diario, it was a copy/paste from another blog.  Sorry I don't remember the source exactly.

nancy_drew - Oh my, did I strike a cord there?

I'm not seeking news or reporting news.  Friday night, I had promised one of the MB kids to post a summary of the day.  So I did.


You are beligerent, interrogative, and frankly you cuss alot.  I'm ghosting you.

I am not trying to be disrespectful but is there a danger in discussing the theory? Thanks.

Most people carry their passports with them when they travel internationally.

If this is an abduction, it may have foiled up the plan that Natalee didn't have her passport with her.

We want her alive and some kind of kidnapping is the best scenario for that.

It is still more likely that the something bad was a rape murder.  Although seriously Joran just doesn't look like the type.

Anyone out there know if this guy is related to Steven Croes?




Hendrik Jose Croes  (for those of you following JustMe's "feelings") his nickname is "Endy" kinda like "andy"

Come to Hawaii - you won't even need a passport. :D

Riehl World View


Aruba: Decapitation Story Confirmed
Dan
Today, 11:31 PM
A reliable source on the island of Aruba has confirmed reports of a recent murder / decapitation, and also confirmed reports of another murder currently under investigation in Aruba. A third report regarding a possible new missing person report filed today has not been confirmed at this time.

Additionally, sources close to the Natalee Holloway investigation have indicated to me that there appear to be serious problems developing in establishing a consistent time lime of events surrounding Natalee's disappearance. Problems stem from conflicts among stories by those being questioned, a growing list which now includes  Father of Joran v d Sloot, Paulus v d Sloot.

It's possible that the time line as presented by the elder vd Sloot does not fit with other knowable facts in the case, resulting in his having been brought back for additional questioning.

Additionally, from other contacts who are known to be observing the Natalee Holloway investigation very closely on the ground in Aruba, there is growing concern that some of the lack of clarity in the troubling case could be the result of an attempt to minimize the impact of this tragic case on the tourism industry of Aruba.

While differences do exist between the system of justice in Aruba and a watchful America, many Americans are coming to feel more and more dissatisfied from an apparent lack of accountability to the public by Aruban authorities.

Developing, hope to have more tomorrow.

thanx

Okay, I think we need a happy moment.. I am going to blast some music for everyone.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last till the end of time.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another meadow
There are cornfields and wheat fields enough to grow
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine
Oh listen, lord, if you want to know.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

No, not just for some, oh, but just for everyone.

Now, let's all love one another okay?  :D

I thought about that too. Good points.

nice voice Cali  :D

But they are not exclusive. You could be a media whore and a serial killer at the same time. To me, a media whore is someone who tries to manipulate me This congress person has absoulutely no fast track into the workings of this case; he googled his ideas just like you and me. Maybe someone else could point me in the direction to where the murder of an American, blone virgin is more important than any other death?

I'm just curious about the mystery.

Possibly but what would be his motive to kill her? Wouldn't there be evidence in the jeep ( hair, blood, fibers ) ? :roll:

Thanks, Cali. Your "happy moment" along with my "happy juice" has made me quite happy.  :D

Thank you Alabama. My pleasure!

With his new change of address the culture shock may hit him harder! (I hope)

Probably not.  I shouldn't have mentioned any names b/c I would just feel terrible if any of it were "right on the money".  I'll go back to lurking for a while.   :toilet:  (Just seeing if that emoticon worked)

No, mi dushi, the prison with the helicopters flying over was St. Lucia Island -- at the same time helicopters were flying over Santa Lucia Aruba looking for Natalee.

Only one problem with that theory. Kidnappers normally try to get in contact with the FAMILY.

Oh, well. All the piece of the puzzle fit together, except for the most important piece.

mbhs05:

No, he accused me of this the other night...and I'm very disturbed by this innuendo.  Since I enjoy the people on this forum and feel it's wrong for anyone to think I'm here to write a story...especially people like you and Dash (I'm proud I gave her the name Dash, even though O'Reilly didn't use it!!!) ...

I will write to Red and Tom in the morning and give them all my details to check out.  They can then report to the forum that I AM NOT HERE AS A JOURNALIST!!

Reporters, tab hacks and all kinds of media trolls will show up here!  It happened in Ramsey, the main forums for that case were visited daily by the DA, cops, tabloid reporters and any main character in the case. It went on for years!!!

I'm not one of those people!  And I resent Dallas making such an accusation!!!

I am curous to know what percentage of the graduating class made the trip vs, how many did not and if there was controversy surrounding the trip.  i also want to know who marketed and sold it, who profited from the sales, and who got the free tickets you get every so many tickets sold and free hotel rooms.  Was there a travel agency and a faculty member involved in the marketing.  If there are 849 kids at the high school 10-12 then there ought ot be about 1/3 seniors, say 283.  Does that mean less than half the senior class participated?   Why so few? money? other factors?

 Iquitos? I want to read your posts but I can't when you quote like that  :cry: Can you let me know what you were saying? I like listening to what you have to say...pretty pretty please?

       u mean  mystery or minisry?

Okay, that was weird when I quoted the post I could not read..it came out normal lol..hmmm

There's about 300-320 of us seniors. About half the class went, a little less than that. Part of the reason was cost...some people had other plans already...some had college orinetation....some weren't allowed to go. It wasn't a "get free tickets" thing...just a trip organized by a mom, just like every other year. No faculty member was involved in marketing.

cali what can i do to please?

iquitos, when you are quoting someone, are you clicking the button to the upper-right of their post that is labeled "Quote"?

Iquitos and I seem to have the same problem with quoting....

It seems that with some posters it works correctly and others it doesn't.

I followed directions on how to do it step by step and it never came up in boxes...only with the word quote at the beginning and end....

very strange

Oh my katya you sound almost jealous... That it's more important than any other death is your inference. BTW , nobody has ever said she was a virgin. (are we feeling guilty about something?)

For the record - I'm only interested in the mystery as well, and probably most Americans. Everyone loves a mystery... :wink:

Actually kerin, just the fact you're an american people especially in so. america tend to think you have money. Kidnapping of americans working or traveling right across the water from aruba in venez., columb, etc., even mexico, are kidnapped. regular not rich americans. also their own citizens who have money. some can be held months and months. rebel forces use it as way to earn money. that's their "business."

Are you quoting by highlighting? Or the button? Maybe I am just sleepy but when it does the {quote} info someone says{quote} and so on is in your posts.. I tend to get lost lol

I hope you people realise that regardless of the outcome, the TRUTH will eventually come out.....All the info we are ALL so desperately craving will be released in due time...and I do mean ALL....I just hope that everybody is prepared for when the moment comes......I don´t think the police will hold anything back in this case........
My guess is some of it will be expected, and some of it will be.....hard to handle by many....

 Absolutely,,,,Alabama as well,,,,all "rednecks"

Professor, check PM

When I try to quote I click on the quote button on the top right hand side of their post...but it still comes up with the word quote instead of a box...therefore...I just don't try anymore..too confusing

 

that is what i am doing.  is it my mac?

    is that official???

"regular" americans who can afford to travel anywhere like these places for fun ARE rich in most locals eyes...there are super rich people in the places also, but they generally know how to operate safely

Testing...testing...from my mac...let's see

I wish it were that simple!  While I don't think they are "rich"  sotaspeak, I feel that if it were a matter of coming up with it, Nat would be home by now!

You definitely do not have to be wealthy to go on these types of trips. My senior class had a fruit sale and a BBQ Dinner sale and most seniors raised enough money to pay for their entire cruise to the Bahamas.

 

Thanks, Was there a travel agency?  Not a journalist not a professional blogger just hooked.  never done this before.  Somehow I got a call.

that is what i am doing.  is it my mac?[/quote]

I doubt it is the Mac.  I am using one.  Check to see if the HTML is OFF and the BBCode is ON.

Not that I know of. Ask Dash.

When you want to quote a post all you need to do is click on the QUOTE button above the message you want to quote.  It will put that quote into your reply message.  Try it and you will see what I mean.

cruise to bahamasa is not a trip to central/south america or the dutch carribbean

and also 20,000 is ALOT of money to many people

Even though I think that the kidnap story just might be true....If money was what was keeping them from getting Natalee...all they would have to do is ask the public to help...wait..they are...oh my

donations to banks to help family...hmmmmm

I doubt it is the Mac.  I am using one.  Check to see if the HTML is OFF and the BBCode is ON.[/quote]

which should be on?  i am disable bbc

See that was my line of thinking, too. I am the senior class sponsor and I know the kids who really wanted to go on the trip got out and earned money through car washes and bake sales, etc.
But again, I have no idea how the people of Aruba view Americans, so thank you to all that posted how we are "viewed".

Quote Issue:

I think this may be the problem.

Hit the "quote" button in the upper right and corner.

When you go to type your message though, begin typing IMMEDIATELY after the quote.

I may be wrong, but I believe if you hit enter and then start typing, that is what gives you the

Joran and his father were known to frequent bars and casinos until the wee hours of the morning.  Who among us would allow our teenagers to go out without a curfew no later than midnight?  Nothing good happens in the early morning hours.  IMO, the lack of rules assigned to Joran has contributed to this crime.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/federal.htm

Section 1201. Kidnapping

    * Whoever unlawfully seizes, confines, inveigles, decoys, kidnaps, abducts, or carries away and holds any person who has not attained the age of eighteen when the person is willfully transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

 The FBI has no investigative jurisdiction outside the United States, except on the high seas and other locations specifically granted by Congress. Therefore, assistance in locating missing children in other countries is limited to liaison with foreign law enforcement authorities through the U.S. Department of State, the FBI's Legal Attaché program, and Interpol.

They have more kidnapping expertise than any other US LE

Mini mystery series Hallmark network

which should be on?  i am disable bbc[/quote]

The BBC should be on.

GreatOwl....before I saw your name I was trying to figure out your signature line, and, well, let's just say I saw something else!

I just can't believe money is object.

ya think???it is probably genetic

nope..didn't work. I'll go back to cut and paste.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

The BBC should be on.[/quote]seeing if this works

which should be on?  i am disable bbc[/quote]

Hey I'm allowed out after 12...and believe you me my parents are the "tight rein" type. Ask Dash. My mom is nuts about that. Granted I have to have a good reason to be out later...like prom or something, but still. These things aren't the judge of a good parent. I think what's more telling is that his dad lets him gamble and drink underage, and that his parents don't know where he is. I mean when I stay out after 12, I'd better damn sure be telling my parents my every move, or my keys are gone in a heartbeat.

Too funny!

FOM....LMAO
( I love it when the Monkey gets going )

::raising hand::

Euro culture is very different than american culture. In fact, just a point to make, in Germany, they legally drink when they are 16 and drive when they are 18. Not sure if it is still the same but that was how it was when I was 16. The are a little more open with things in their culture, so IMHO I don't find it odd or unusual being they are from The Netherlands but that doesn't make someone a killer or bad person because they are able to stay out late at night.

FBI is a federal agency.
Kidnapping is a FEDERAL not a local or state crime.
ALL kidnappings of Americans are handled by the FBI whether they are local, cross state lines or cross country lines. (and foreigners if it happens within the US)

However, in a foreign country, the FBI has to be invited to participate in the search/negotiations.

I have just been sitting here reading all along not saying much, but as far as this is concerned I wonder is this entire thing has nothing to do with the familys money but the American DEA agents and the recent bust they made. Maybe they are holding an american girl to get something from them or someone?

So MBHS...since it is slow and you are talking teen stuff...let me ask a question. When I have teens spend the night here, I collect all their car keys until the morning. What would you think about this? (since your mom and I seem to be the same "type")  :)

folks- it has been a long day. i need to get some rest.  it has been good.  sleep tite and don't come up with any more half baked theories while i am gone.  just more arrests and some clarity here.

extra set of keys??? most of us have them....um, nice try though

Night Iquitos

are you saying that the FBI will prosecute?  (really wanted to do the quote thing again)

Here's a crazy thought.....imagine if it was some pyscho american tourist on a long vacation doing it (nat, strangled guy, other missing person).... :roll:

Southern culture is different too. When I was growing up in Mississippi, I got my driver's permit at age 14 and could legally drive with anyone who had a license -- i.e. all my 15 year old friends. Also, underage drinking wasn't ''allowed'' per se, but let's just say it was certainly common. Most of the adults I knew regularly drove with a glass of bourbon in one hand. And I did not grow up among a bunch of uneducated people - these were doctors, lawyers, etc. It was just a lot more permissive. Not judging good or bad, just suggesting that this current obsession with 'why weren't there more restrictions!' is a little unrealistic and naive.

Well...I dunno. It's the kind of thing my parents would do if I had lots of people over, but I never do, because it's a pain in the butt. I mooch of other people's houses. As a teen, of course I think it's strict...unless alcohol is involved, and then those keys should be gone in a second. But on the other hand, at least your house is safe, because no one can be sneaking in and out at all hours, and that's good. Means your kids will have a good rep, and also means their friends will always be allowed to stay at your house.
More good than bad, anyway.

"strangled"? you mean partial decapitation

Kerin<---Born at night...not LAST night.
Emptying the pockets maybe?

good night iquitos....sweet dreams..you are appreciated!

Another K in Texas Catchin' up and wanted to thank you for the link to the Laredo case.  From my "sketchy reading" about Mexico-USA border conflicts, I've heard a lot more about California's and Arizona's issues than Texas's...the ones that are negatively reported.

I've wondered, where the US wants to "control access" to "uncontrolled border penetration," I wish they'd consider more robust physical barriers like the ones seen between West Bank and Israel, for instance.

Obviously, the political powers-that-be wouldn't entertain that issue, but it would obviate the need for 'Predator-like' drone surveilllance, etc., or trip-sensors, you know the litany.

I'm still at a loss why the inside the Beltway crowd can't grab this issue; hey, they nearly castrated Mr. Tancredo, (R) CO., for advocating border control.  The chief castra-tor would be Karl Rove-like harpies.

Then there's Coca-cola-guy President of Mexico....

....going to just quietly step off this soapbox and catch up on my reading...

When all is said and done, I think we can all agree that Mountain Brook High School made a big mistake in choosing Aruba as the site for their senior getaway trip.

I say this with all due respect for the people of Aruba. They have their own values and customs, and we, as Americans must respect that.

We can't expect everyone to hold the same values as we do.

OK MBHS...thanks for an honest teen answer.  :)

On the trip thing--we went through this last night.  Most families, even those in the working classes will find the money for trips such as this if the child really wants to go.

I had a friend who sold tamales to make the money for her daughter to go on a school trip to DC.  Where I teach now one of the teachers makes breakfast burritos and sells them and then takes herself and her daughter somewhere special with the money--this spring break that meant a trip to Europe.

Kids get jobs to help pay, and many of these trips even allow the payment in a couple of installments to lighten the load.

Going on the trip does not make a person rich.

I also drink black coffee and straight scotch!!!

The next time you write those dear kids a list of "news", make sure you get it right!  And don't screw with me, got it?

~Nancy

haha- just raise them right, not an easy task

You just wanted to to the quote thing again huh, lol?