Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

A new thread for news and discussions.

PLEASE visit the link below with Tom and Red's WEBLOG for summaries of the information gathered here.

www.scaredmonkeys.com

Please be sure to read the TROLLS announcement. Thank you.

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A gentle reminder, that at times we get heated and angry over something we read. Perhaps something someone else says. When you feel yourself typing out things you would "never say to a person if they were standing in front of you", well.. that is the time to step away.

Get a coffee, watch some TV, hug your hubby/wife, take a walk, take a shower.... take a break. Go watch the sunset.

This is a highly emotional issue that has dragged on for weeks (and might go for weeks more).

Remember, we are all real people with real feelings. Sometimes, when we type out "words" they aren't taken in the same context that we meant them.

Give others the same latitude you would like them to give you. Don't assume the worst, look for how that person could have meant something other than the worst.

Life's too short. We are not lost... our loved ones know where we are.

Be thankful.

Good morning everyone!  I'm off to work... will check in as often as I can.

Play nice, boys and girls!   :lol:  :lol:

Someone asked on #14 about this group...

The missing girl's uncle, Paul Reynolds, told Court TV Monday that the family has contracted the Dickinson-based Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team to carrying out a search of the island.

New search methods
"They are going to help us search for Natalee in ways we couldn't before," Reynolds said without offering details.

Texas EquuSearch, made up of volunteers, said on its Web site that a team is traveling to Aruba this week

from
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8290302/

obviously this has not escaped everyone's notice, but it seems to me that deepak is the linchpin in all of this.

he was driving, he knows jaron and steve croes, he worked at the internet cafe. his co-worker declined to comment on his character. he was lounging against the car with joran when natalee's family came to the vds house. these few things we know with a degree of certainty.

i continue to wonder how joran got home if he was not with the kalpoes

unlike joran, deepak had his brother, satish, to concoct and rehearse  his story at home. no email, no telephone, no sms necessary. they lived together. joran is the odd man out in all of this and obviously if either one or both of the kalpoes were not involved they would have told their story, the true story and that would have been that.  could satish be involved or that he knows too much and needs to be held until the culprits can be indicted.

like all of you, i remain mystified why nothing more has come out about this deepak or his family.   :roll:

according to joran, deepak came back to the HI and picked him up an hour or so later. no doubt someone is talking and steve croes would nt have been arrested unless it was on the words on one of the other three...

Morning...

Can you say "coverup"?  It is the one theme that pervades this entire mystery.   From Papa VDS, to the LE, to the "suspects"....it can be found in every single aspect of this case to date.

I simply cannot understand why there is NEVER anything written or said about Deepak's family.  How does that even happen in a crime that is being watched and followed by a majority of the planet????

i thought that the tattoo only went out on wed, fri, and sat.. last night someone on fox kinda indicated that it might have been out on sun.. that does nt make sense...

I don't know about that, but hasn't it generally been suggested that SGC wouldn't have taken the cruiser, but rather one of the smaller boats used to ferry people to it?   (That is, if he did anything at all!)  Probably no one would ever have noticed him in a smaller boat.

I'm not so sure Deepak is the central figure - after Greta's conversation last night where the Diario guy slipped and said the following -- that "Joran contacted Croes that night because Deepak knew him"  -- here's what I was mulling over while my teen had her computer time last night:

Joran and Nat really were left alone and something bad happened.  Joran panicked and called Deepak, making it his problem as well. Upon arrival or merely after hearing the circumstances, Deepak suggested contacting his buddy Croes to help out.  

Of course that could be all wrong, but the Diario guy did say the words "Joran contacted Croes."  Which leads me to believe that it was the cell phone records that brought Croes into the picture, for certain. Sorry if this has been determined already but I'm one entire thread behind after being kicked off the computer last night.

afternoon here but greetings....

pine, at this point i wouldn't confuse news embargo with cover-up.  

rob, i hadn't heard the latest on joran saying that deepak had returned. but i wonder who dropped croes name? you're right nothing seems to make sense. can they all be so callous as to think that if natalee is not found their problem goes away?

if that's the case Lil - then wouldn't deepak and croes drop joran in it? and satish says i don't know, i wasn't there?

could they all have been so stupid as to think (or not think) that not going to a hospital would not be the best solution?

I wasn't here last night - what exactly is the latest scoop on Poppa VDS?  Is he still officially suspended?

thay was part of deepaks orignial story.. he dropped off jvds and natalee, at the marrott and was called back like an hour or an hour and a half later....he picked up only joran...im almost postive that the tattoo does not go out on sun.. there s no way.. not enough ppl to make it worth it on a sunday.. so if s.croes is involved he was either already there or was called...

that's the latest, pine and i think it's safe to assume that his career in jurisprudence is in the toilet but who knows.

there was also a report in one of the local (to the antilles) papers that one of the inmates had attempted suicide and was under watch. no identity disclosed.

apparently the twitty/holloway family have engage a PI and lawyer and according to FOX this am at least in part that is to gain access to the police records. the judge has said he will not rule on any such suit until there is an indictment in the case.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160168,00.html

Well, Deepak might have been responsible for procuring drugs if they were involved, or did go to help and suggested contacting Croes, which  makes him equally responsible for Nat's disappearance.  From Fox reports with various sources, wasn't it said that Satish is potentially expected to be released?

ITA about them going to a hospital, unless it was too late. However, once the decision not to was made - if it was, just going with a scenario of course and praying that Natalee is still in perfect physical health - then all three become equally responsible, yes?

His family seemed wealthy enough last night during the Greta interview. Father a businessman, the house wasn't shabby....so I'm not buying that the Kalpoe's were/are the ringleaders for a money reason.  Especially after the Diario guy specifically said Joran contacted Croes.

thanks, Rob.

phone records and other telecommunications methods should help. fortunately there is only one provider on the island - owned by the govt, so access to the records in a criminal investigation should be a no-brainer.

Thanks for the update.

I can't see where VDS (pops) could possibly continue his career now that so many locals have claimed to see him with his underage son gambling and drinking in the casinos; i.e., breaking the law.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Texas EquuSearch there.  Wonder how this will go with LE.  Surely there has been communication between the two?

Anyone know if the Boat DJ that was arrested had access to the boat all the time?? Possible with a set of keys to allow for burial of a body off the coast. For that matter, could have been to transport her to a different location in South America?

His boss, immediately after he was arrested, seemed to think he could not have taken the boat out alone...something about the electronics on it.  I don't have a clue where I read that - most likely here in an earlier thread.

Lil - i agree and definitely accessories after the fact and whoever supplied if in fact that is the case and can be established.

this whole thing is a horrible mess.  :(

Morning everyone.. I have Fox news on.. and a reporter said they will be talking to NH Uncle in an hour or so..Sorry if this was repeated already!!

but the theory of taking a dinghy type boat out is not beyond the realm of possibility.

i don't know what they use, but something was mentioned about smaller boats they use to ferry passengers to and from the larger boat. but why would croes do that? supplying drugs is one thing, but what we're talking about is .... way beyond that.

hes on now.. oops

Well, how about this:  (And it's my first theory, so go easy...)  Joran and the brothers buy the date rape drug from Steve.  Because of the alcohol in her system, the effects are far more than intended...she passes out; the boys freak...call Steve (he's the EMT after all)...Steve can't revive her.  Joran calls Dad and he suggests taking the body out to sea and pays Steve to do it, as he's the only one with access to a boat.

This explains a couple of middle of the night phone calls someone mentioned.

(Jeez....it didn't even feel good to write that!)

Just another thought on the party boat....  If this is located at a marina, is there any video from that night. Also wonder if the boat has a 'ding-e'(small boat used for emergancy).  Another thought is if this is at some type of marina, the DJ likely had access to other boats there. My guess would be he was well know(like most DJ's) and might have usage of someone elses boat as trade for Tatoo trips and hook ups with guests.

Updates would be appreciated. Stuck at work and can't watch....
Thanks

this steve isn't the EMT guy.........

if anyone see the fox news interview with the uncle....pls post details...thanks

Is he only a DJ then?

The Uncle..Paul Reynolds said a search team from Texas will be arriving in Aruba tonight.. 17 searchers and 3 dogs.. he said they have a very high success rate in finding missing persons. Also The NH family is filing a law suit..they want access to records with the evidence.

mojo - it was Satish who was leaning against the car with JdvS when the Holloways stopped by.

from what i understand, there are 2 steve croes........one is this person currently incarcerated, the other is an emt(someone found his book review on amazon or somewhere i think).

it's been established that this steve is NOT the EMT.

if he did sell/supply drugs to one or all, then they might just have called him to see what to do, does this happen, will she revive etc. that may have been his part in this story.  the problem of course with so many illegal substances is that no one really knows about dosage, side affects etc.

'Also The NH family is filing a law suit..they want access to records with the evidence.'

Has the family hired an Attorney in Aruba for law suits and such. Just wonder what legal system they file with. I wouldn't think a lawsuit would do much good when fighting with goverment procedures in another country.

Here's the link for the group from Texas...

http://www.texasequusearch.org

Donations are accepted.

Hope they "go in like a bunch of cowboys".

About the law suit.. that was flashing at the bottom of the screen as the Uncle was speaking. He said this team from texas may even have different kinds of tools to use in a search then what the investigators in Aruba do..that its possible.

Amen to that.. and thanks for the link. I could not remember the name of the search team.

Good morning everyone!
I dont know if I missed anything last night (kids had the puter), but was watching fox. I tend to agree with you on this. I think that with the investigation seeming to revolve around Joran, that it is possible he is the one talking. Deepak and his brother have each other, and if they came up with a story on their own can stick together without saying much until evidence proves they are lying. This might be why Jorans dad was desperate to see his son. To tell him to stop talking like we have all said before. It also might make sense why Jorans dad was questioned. They could easily say "Your son told us xyz". If the brothers arent talking then not much would come out about their family would it?just IMO anyway.
At this point though I can only hope there is alot more evidence then we know about. Its soooo frustrating not knowing whats going on. I understand aruban law pretty much prevents much from being released. But sheesh I guess we are all spoiled by usually hearing evidence here in the states.

Morning momto5.. as well.. my son and hubby were hogging the puter last night!!

Last night Beth Twitty said they hired an attorney to file a motion under aruban law.

thanks aaraba. i thought it was deepak. so scratch that part.  :oops:

Good morning!
Yes mine too. I guess they had every right after all I have been addicted and stuck here for 4 days.  :oops: I had to let them have some quality time with the computer lol!

I think it will be very interesting once this team from texas arrives..maybe they will make some headway..hopefully!!

i wonder if this search team will get resistance or be restricted....afterall, they are going to a foreign country.......imagine if a team from france wanted to come here to look for a lost citizen in florida because they thought the US was doing a poor job on the investigation.


just a thought................but that said, i am glad they are going because i just want to see her found or recovered.

lol.. I know what you mean.. I have been the same way ..besides having Fox news on constantly.. I read some about the search team in texas.. sounds interesting and seems they have been a part of alot of other searches. This whole thing is just so sad.

I think Joran's father took the Holloway family on a wild goose chase the night they went over to his house.

I think Joran was at home, and the father said he was at the casinos to give Joran and the brothers time to get their stories straight.  When that was done Joran called his dad's cell phone, and the dad took Natalee's family and the police back to the house.  That's why Satish was there.

Wow.. didnt even think about that! Lets hope that nobody gives them any BS.. NH Uncle said they were hired by the family.

CJM,,  I agree with you on that.. I think Joran was home too and daddy covered his butt. It dont make sense..!!

at this point nothing will surprise me. i so was hoping for a happy ending.

"Wow.. didnt even think about that! Lets hope that nobody gives them any BS.. NH Uncle said they were hired by the family.[/quote]

There just HAD to be some communication among the TX group, NH's family, and local LE.   I don't believe an organized group like that could just enter and do their own thing.

All we need out of this now is an international "incident".

Same here..and hopefully there will be a happy ending to this all. I cant even imagine how NH parents feel.. her family and friends. Also if she is indeed alive what the poor girl is going through herself.

There just HAD to be some communication among the TX group, NH's family, and local LE.   I don't believe an organized group like that could just enter and do their own thing.

All we need out of this now is an international "incident".[/quote]

NH Uncle..Paul Reynolds was on Fox about 30 minutes ago.. he said the Texas team was indeed hired by the family. Also..when he was speaking.. underneath it said NH parents want to file a law suit and wants acess to records. I have FOx on now.. and nothing more is being said.

There was just a short news brief on FOX.. basically all that I have said already.. the parents want to file a law suit to have access to all records that have been obtained so far in this.

Hi everyone! I've been lurking here for weeks, and a little shy. I also didn't have much to add to the discussion. I found it interesting on Greta's show last night that he said the Tattoo doesn't dock, but instead the passengers are ferried out to it for the cruises. I'm sorry if this has been touched on already. It made sense at that point that Croes very likely did have access to smaller boats. Also, didn't one of the Aruban posters say that he had rented kayaks on the beach for a time? I think it is highly likely that his involvement was in disposing of the body (God forbid) :? . Thanks for listening!

Good morning Floridamom..I too lutekd for weeks and finally joined yesterday.. I read alot the last few weeks. Im not sure if he rented out kayaks on the beach or not.

Natalee's photo is on the front page of AweMainta today. looks as though it's a fairly extensive spread. this will take time for all our translators?

Hi floridamom and welcome!
Yes it has been mentioned that they ferry passengers back and forth to the tattoo. Croes would possibly have access to a smaller boat if that is the case and if he is involved. Itll be interesting to find out exactly how he is involved. I think it was said though he either overheard something or was told something? Thing is they did hold him which leads me to believe he was more involved. Its hard to say really since aruban law prevents us from knowing much as it would hurt their case.

fox news on saying parents are hiring an Aruban attorney to gather records in evidence that was collected..such a law suit may not be heard by the judge until suspects are formally charged and could take awhile.
Search team bringing high tech sonar...Judge ruled polcie have enough evidence to hold Steve Croes...(think thst old news tho)..

I would think they know they are coming. Its on the news which means it isnt a secret. Also Natalees family has by all accounts searching on their own everyday. I would think as long as they didnt impede on the investigation or leak any evidence they might find itll be ok. They are simply there to help the family, not the investigation IMO.

Hi floridamom! I'm fairly new, too, but thinking along the same lines.  That psychic post (not Brian, but the one linked yesterday by someone here) is really frightening - it was dated 6/4 and said there was a boat, blue in color, involved because Joran called the boat person for help and lots of other details. Not saying it's true, just that it's weird to see a boat person come into the story and via what seems to be a phone call, if you believe the Diario reporter on Greta last night - Joran contacted Croes.  But if that is the case, I'd bet Croes has access to a smaller boat because it's hard to believe anyone would jeopardize their employment by stealing their bosses boat unless they were somehow going to be implicated in the first place.

Hi!
I am a lurker mom here in MN. But I have been reading tons...
I did see something about kayaks some time back.

I even hate to say this because I like to think positive.. but if there was a boat operated by this Croes fellow.. and he did something with her..and the police know this.. wouldnt you think they would recover a body by now and not put the poor family thru pure hell? Just a thought..

Good morning all.  I have grown weary of the email error message that makes people think they need to post multiple times.  Ergo,  I have downloaded the source code and will try two fix it.
Even
I'm wanting to generate the error once, then send a fix to Tom.

Hopefully I will receive the error on my first try.  I will hate to send multiple "good morning" messages.  for a good cause.

i don't think we will see an incident so to speak.....if anything i was thinking the "cold shoulder" type treatment............i am sure aruban authorities aren't happy about this.

personally i don't care how/who breaks this mystery. i wonder what effect this sonar will have

Hi north of north and welcome!

ON fox it was said the high tech sonar is used to search water.. :cry:

 smaller boats are used for ferrying passengers to the tattoo..

BRb... need to go through some laundry in.. at least I will feel I accomplished something while sitting here reading and typing!!

"Hi floridamom! I'm fairly new, too, but thinking along the same lines.  That psychic post (not Brian, but the one linked yesterday by someone here) is really frightening - it was dated 6/4 and said there was a boat, blue in color, involved because Joran called the boat person for help and lots of other details. [/quote]

I thought there was a place here for "Predictions" but now I don't see it.  Can you please tell me more about this?

Morning Rob.. I see I dont live far from you..lol

Yes I am sure they would like to recover any remains if that is the case. But if none of the suspects are giving up a location I dont think they will go searching aimlessly. It is an island with tons of water, and would be near impossible Im sure to just look without a location.
It is odd they havent launched more searches. It makes me wonder exactly what evidence they have?

hey angie, got a quick question for you since you are watching fox.....when will this search team actually start their work?

All I can say is that 3 plus weeks on looking for a body in the ocean would be like looking for a needle in a haystack - with or withou a sonar equipped boat.

good morning, i do indeed know where jeanette is...

One of the Aruban posters on this site who knows Steve Croes said he used to operate a kayak rental business.

Thanks for the welcome. The Aruban poster who knew SC was shocked to find that he had been arrested. She gave some background on him, and stated that he was a "beach boy", who spent all his time on the beach, and that he had a job renting kayaks. If that is the case, it would have probably been simple for him to gain access to a small boat/kayak.

I find it hard to believe he would do this willingly, and without something being held over his head, like a drug involvement or direct involvement. It is obviously not feasible that he took the Tattoo out to sea.

Dan Riehl has some interesting tidbits on his site today. Sorry, I was away last night, if they have already been discussed. Here's the link:

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/update_2.html

Hi
And thanks for the welcome!
I have been on the computer for 45 min and 3 weeks reading. Just peeked out to say Hi.
That said... I need to go till my garden before a big storms hits! With that storm this computer may be off for a long time.
Maybe I will get something done around my house today!
Have a good day everyone...
I will be praying as I work in my garden.
take care!

NH Uncle said the search team will arrive in Aruba tonight.. he didnt specify an exact time.

This lawsuit will not even reach the court formally while the investigation is still ongoing.  The family having acces to policerecords even before miss Holloway is found is unheard of and might even jeopardize the case in court. So why bother suing now?.  The results of the investigation can only be given formally to the family after the investigation is closed. That means, miss Holloway is either found or still missing with the suspects confessing a murder.

I don't see any legal problems in mounting a search on the Island. Everybody is free to look around on the Island. But they will not get access to records of the police and JD.

Have a good day. Nice meeting you.

morning all new and old.  i have fox on and just saw about the search team on its way.    but no news of Natalee???  
This is so sad.   I love this SM site but am like most tired of all the
waiting and hoping and praying.   Any good news???  did dj
taylor have baby?? that would give us a smile right??

On Fox news it was said that this wont even make it to the judge until the suspects are formally charged.

Hi

As an aruban I have a question for you. Why is the disappearance of Natalee being covered by the mainstream media like no other disappearance?

I know the two indians mother. She is a very quiet person. Maybe something wrong happened and her sons are involved. My son knows all of them. Even though there is the possibility of a crime or anything else nobody expected this.

What is really happening? What is behind all this? Unfortunately Aruba is situated along the coast of Venezuela and Colombia and is 2:30 hrs flight to Florida. But why this? Could it be prevented? Are there more people involved? I would like to volunteer myself to help find this lady, if she is here in Aruba, dead or alive. My hope is that the overreaction and disproportional coverage by the CNN and FOX news is not part of a hidden agenda.

My hope is also that this mystery will contribute positively to the aruban safety and quality.

Thank you for your understanding. You are welcome to come to Aruba.

Morning friend. Really no new news other then the search team arriving in Aruba sometime tonight and the family wanting to file a law suit to gain access in records.. Thats all I have heard this morning so far. I have FOX news on in the other room.

tv (think cnn) this morning describing their motion is to join the prosecution as a victims rep to gain more access to the process.  they say this is automatic in the dutch system.  is that true?

Hi hubmd and welcome! There are a couple of other arubans also on this board and we welcome your opinions and insight!
I believe the reason this case has captivated our attention is that Natalee could be anyones daughter. Personally, I have a 16 yr old daughter myself, and I also have had a son abducted. That is why I am interested in helping find this young lady. I know the devastation a missing child can cause and how horrible it feels.
CNN and Fox will continue running reports as long as Americans are interested and ask them to. I dont think there is any hidden agenda aside from high rating for their network.
Thanks for letting us know about the boys mother. We had wondered why she hadnt been speaking or anything. It is understandable to not want the attention though. Again welcome  :D

Good morning everyone.  Usually just "lurking" but very curious about "rumors" that have been posted that I have not seen updated.  Sorry if this a repeat.  Regarding one of the suspects supposedly attempting suicide, was there anymore to this rumor and if so could it have been Joran and that is why he is not being moved to the prison.  Also, what about the story reported on FOX (i know lol we should suspect misinformation right away) with I believe a reporter regarding following a car in Venezuela...yadayadaya.... He just pull that out of the air?..... what's up????

How is the boys mother holding out??? She is a mother as well and I am sure she is going through her own hell right now as well.

So if a case goes on for years, under Dutch law the family will never gain access to any records at all???  For years?  If the person/body is never recovered, the case can't be closed, or can it?  

Someone must know something; the family hired an Aruban lawyer, and she certainly would have told them this.

Morning Festa.. I myself havnt heard anymore about any of that!!

Bonjour Gerben. Comment ça va?

The searchers will need permission to search any private lands. Is the interior of the island mostly public or private property? I also wonder if the team is bringing in their own horses or using horses from the island.

I dont' think there is a hidden agenda either.  

They are also covering the missing boy scout story.

Americans follow these stories.  We were glued to television for news of Elizabeth Smart.  

Some of us older ones watched Baby Jessica trapped in the well.


The people are interested so the networks cover.

Shows like America's Most Wanted are popular.

Why some missing persons provoke more of that national interest than others I don't know.

We are programmed to be interested because most of us know someone who has had a child taken.  It is that common, but most of the time it is a child custody problem.

We see missing kids faces on mild cartons and as we walk into Walmart.

So we feel so for the family and friends that we watch.  If we watch the networks sell commercials.  So they cover the stories.


I don't think there is any hidden agenda exept perhaps the newstaff really enjoy the free trips to Aruba they get from their bosses.



Welcome to the forums.

My heart breaks for all the mothers in this situation.

excellent point, i dont see any info being released for aprox.3 more months....

Morning to you...Gosh I remember the baby jessica incident.. and I agree with everyhthng you said!!  Good post!

sir the "agenda" here is to find natalee.....nothing more nothing less, thats the way we americans are, when someone goes missing we help to find them....

so Rob are you going on the assumption that the prosecutor's office in this case will continue to detain these guys the maximum amount of time allowed and then charge them.

from a prosecutorial POV this would indeed give them time to get their ducks in a row IMO

yes true....well tnx for asking but no not yet! Ive been checking in every couple ofhours "nothign yet??" so I sound liek the commercial! hahahah good news: her mother arrived from the islands to be w/ her, so thats good for the help.....ill let you know when ITS TIME LOL!

Yes, as a victim of a very serious crime, or surviving next of kin you have limited rights to be involved in the trialprocedures. You can get 'spreekrecht' the right to tell directly to the suspect how his criminal act has impacted your life. However, there are limitations to this, so Natalee's family must not set their hopes on complete access during trial.

The Aruban newspapers are getting defensive, although I don't blame them. In today's AM Digital, there is a front-page story about an American caught smuggling drugs. There is also an article from Scripps News Service about the dangers of young Americans coming to the islands for beaches, booze and sex.

i m  under the impression that nothing is coming out, unless there is a leak.. but i think that is highly unlikely..

Hi, Hubmd;
I think this story has become so important to us in the U.S. because as a rule, if you are or have a good kid, one who spends the majority of their time focusing on studying and on All-American, wholesome activities, as a rule, you are not in any 'high risk' group and end up safely tucked in your bed at night and awake to see another day.
When something disturbs that theory, it strikes terror in many hearts.
Although, it may not be apparent to those who do not live here, the U.S. very highly values the role of parents and their goal to raise good and decent human beings. This young lady appears to epitomize the result that we all dream of.....a worthwhile young adult who understood the value of education and giving.
In other words, we know what what's important. It's not movie stars, big houses, and money. It's raising kids to have a purpose and to utilize the gift of life they have. NH's dissapearance is basically nothing less than the theft of a national treasure.
This is my opinion, but I am sure that I am close to describing how a lot of people feel about this and why we are absolutely obsessed with finding her. No matter what happened, we want her back where she belongs!

Good morning All, and welcome to the board Humbd. "We" welcome all Arubians with their insight and information on this case. I do not think that there is any "hidden agenda". there is nothing to be gained. And , as you say, in the long run, this should turn out to be a positive development, if I can use such a term in regards to this possible tragedy, for Aruba in that one would think they would be tightening up on the policing of their owns laws and regulations - such as the underaged in their clubs and casinos. Perhaps better monitoring of all such environments where tourists are "off guard" and relaxed.

Well said, Paula--I think you just verbalized why this story is so compelling. Good morning, everyone!

Thanks for the baby update American.


If her mom is there I am sure they will doing more visiting than computering.

Keep us posted.

i agree very well stated!

Has anyone heard anything else along the lines of JVDS being seen having cream and wires applied to him?

Morning everyone........... ANy new news..watchin fox all last night until i fell asleep to it lol..... last night with greta was great! She really does a great job!!!  ANy updates on the confirmation on who "attempted suicide"......

<<i wonder if this search team will get resistance or be restricted....afterall, they are going to a foreign country.......imagine if a team from france wanted to come here to look for a lost citizen in florida because they thought the US was doing a poor job on the investigation.>>


Imagine this sound bite:

"We brought in an elite search and recovery team to cover places that could not reached before.  But the Aruban government wouldn't let it do its job."

My guess: Texas EquuSearch will not be hassled.

Front page of scaredmonkeys says it was Joran but there is no confirmation.

The Texas group has worked internationally before.  The were in the tsunami searches, at least that is what I read.

I am sure they know how to work WITH the local authorities.

Nice post, Paula..

I think this is receiving so much attention, because it's a compelling mystery.  How does an 18 year old girl dissappear without a trace in the space of four hours?  That it's your part of earth is simply happenstance.

Under normal circumstances they only way you can get 'official' information about what happend to miss Holloway is:
a)when her body is found. That means the JD confirms officially that she is found dead, and has been killed.
b)she is found alive and giving somekind of statement to the press
c)the first day of trial, 'pro forma'. That is when the procecutor will officially indict the suspects. Some details about how she is killed will emerge then.

I don't think in this case it will be different. MSM barrage or not.

thanks Rob and Gerben.

Thanks, All; I had a feeling we were 'united' as to why she is everyone's daughter.

Gerben aka Pays Bas; thanks for such thoughtful and informative posts. Your appreciation and insight is appreciated and helpful.

TYVM for this information. I have been trying as much as I can to understand the laws in aruba since they are so diff then  here in our states.

sorry gerban i wrote in your margin...

Good morning.  Still not confirmation on the suicide attempt or who it was.  Some experts have said Fox and the other cable outfits cover this stuff because it is cheap programming.  A talking head and a few paid "experts" and you got a show that can go on for hours and hours without ever stating a new fact and there is no fear of competition from the serious press so it is an exclusive.  The problem is if it goes on and on without resolution.  Then you face the dilemma of dropping the story like a hot rock whichh will happen as soon as something else comes up.  I wonder who the target audience is.  

Here is  the morning paper:    

http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am21jun05.pdf

Look at the comments on the latest monkeys update page Greta and Mrs. Twitty.  It discusses the interrogation of Joran at his house Tuesday AM by the Alabama posse that had to be broken up by police and an encounter during that dust up between Joran and Mrs. Twitty.  She denied it happened in an earlier interview and has now described in detail.  The  Twittys do not like Joran and his Dad.   There is some indication that the pro-active Alabama folks may have contaminated the investigation in their zeal to get to the botom of Natalees disappearance.  It would have been enough to identify Joran to the police.  Also note the Mr. v/d Sloot is a public prosecutor on Aruba.  Here are two I like:  
 
Neil Says:
June 20th, 2005 at 11:16 pm
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Natalee’s mom approach to Joran probably shut down any possibility of anything but a defensive response.

She was understandably highly emotional state, and the best I can say it, was she probably was throwing a tantrum. Anyone around her who felt accused would likely respond negatively, and that is exactly what Joran and family probably did.

Too bad the police did not take Joran in right on the spot to interview him without Natalies family present.

All this hatred and venom is not good.

Scott Says:
June 21st, 2005 at 1:42 am
As a professor of forensic psychology, i believe this case is unlikely to be solved by the Aruban police. They have obtained no forensic evidence that i am aware of. There is also no body to be found which, in most criminal cases, is the single most important piece of evidence to analyze/profile. Additionally, while an investigation is going on, you never, ever allow anyone related to a victim speak with a suspect. never, ever. With a skilled interrogator, i.e. the US FBI/Quantico contingent… you might still be able to get the truth from one of the three boys. But, the fact that there appears to be no evidence, weekens the position of interrogator considerably. From a purely psychological point of view based on statements made by all three parties (Van Der Sloot and the 2 brothers) that i have read, i would place the highest probability of guilt on J. Van Der Sloot. However, in a court of law, probability and proof are entirely 2 different phenomena.

Im sure everyone has seen this but i thought it was interesting and very happy that the family is really goin at the govt, or whoever it is that is in charge of allowin evidence to be seen!  They are her family, and deserve to know, obviously they are not going to talk to media about the evidence with there being a chance at that hurting the investigation and maybe causin the investigation to fail! So it hink its safe to let her poor family know!!!!!!!!!!

Holloway's Family Prepares Lawsuit to Demand Evidence

Tuesday, June 21, 2005
 

   
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — The family of Natalee Holloway (search) moved to take matters in their own hands Monday, preparing a lawsuit to demand evidence in the case and hiring a Texas company to search for the 18-year-old, who vanished three weeks ago in Aruba.

Good Morning All,
 :lol:   anything new :?:

For absolut, if you're around - excellent work on your news feed. Thank you so much for taking the time and sharing it with others.

Perhaps the family think the authorities have information that could lead them in the direction of finding Natalee.  Maybe they would spend more time or money searching or hiring investigators to search, if they had some idea of where they put her.  By the time the trial is over, her body could be decomposed or she could have been moved many times and her trail lost.  After 3 weeks, people may begin to think the Aruba police aren't doing everything they can do to find her.

Don't be so sure. Oddly enough there may not be horses involved with this team even if they are allowed to search.

I'd read the story about the Twittys going to the Van Der Sloot household on the boards yesterday; I also saw Beth Twitty's interview on Greta Van Sustern last night.

Didn't she say Joran hit his chest and said, "What do you want me to do?" I don't understand the significance of him hitting his chest. Who does that? It's definitely not a mannerism or a signal that I understand, but it sounds sort of scary.

amigoe in english

Aruba extra vulnerable by dependency dollar economy

ARUBA – How autonomous can a country be, when it clings on to the dollar economy like grim death?  Is that indeed this advantageous when the economy of the United States ends up in a dropping trend?  During an international conference in the Holiday Inn of the FTA union, the Central Bank of Aruba, and the University of Aruba, Randall Dodd, manager of the Financial Policy Forum & Derivates Study Center in Washington clarified this some more.

“With a cheaper dollar, Aruba is an attractive tourist destination for Europeans.  However, when the mutual ratio of the exchange rates change, also the market changes, either for the better or for the worst”, said Dodd.  When the US is in a recession, less inhabitants of that country will go on vacation to foreign destinations.  By being completely dependent on the American tourist market, Aruba looses her flexibility.”  Dodd indicated that it is therefore very important for the Aruban policy makers to understand the economic trends of the US.  The housing sector is positive.  The real estate prices have never been this high.  Many mortgages are being refinanced.  The retail expenses have increased in the past years.  Also the operating profits have increased considerably after 2001.  The question is according to Dodd, whether this growth will continue and for how long.

At the same time he pointed out a few factors that give a more dejected image.  During the recession of 2001, the employment dropped drastically.  It’s true that it had recovered, but a growth is hardly perceptible.  Besides, the average time a person is unemployed has increased with 10 percent.  According to Dodd, the salaries show a dropping trend.  The car sales have dropped considerably after a short increase after September 11th, and the orders for long lasting products stayed behind.  A bad futuristic view can be derived from an increase of the stocks.  He also points out the vulnerability in the American economy by the growth of the government debt, which is currently already 80 percent of the Gross Domestic Product.  In Aruba this is 45 percent.  According to him, the American debt can continue to grow, but not for ever.  Another bad sign is that the consumer confidence in the US is dropping.  As vacation destination, Aruba can offer a few advantages.  Important is that Aruba is located close to the US.  We still have to take into account that Americans will travel less if the current trend continues.

that's a distressing analysis iquitos. i'm hoping scott's wrong.

iquitos, i think you have hit on something here... no body means basicily no conviction, hence the interrogation of father vd sloot...i think they are trying to figure out what happened to the body...hence the murder charges. i m  leaning to the possiblitiy that she may have been dumped at sea.. i hope im wrong...

Thanks, I look forward to working with the "Monkeys" going forward with whatever direction this all leads. I hope you all do to.

So many theories abound...

Not much revelation...

I thinks the speculation needs to be simplified. There is not a great timeline of events of the evening and of her first day(s) missing(that we are clued in on). Speculation would need to be based on what three bonehead teens would do in a panic situation. I doubt if concealing a dead body(if thats what happened) was entirely masterminded and may have been done in a hurry.

Is it possible a body was recovered and it is highly secret? (I think this since Aruba LE is so tight lipped, that she could be in a holding freezer and autopsied already, just no concise confessions from detainees.  Then there are rumors of pending murder charges already, so why would they put the cart before the horse...)

My other train of thought is that she could have been taken off in a chain of custody but evidence and rumor we know so far seems weaker to point to that.

Was dads vehicle used to transport her?  Any sand, dirt, rocks, vegetation... recovered from impounded vehicles with clues as to where vehicles traveled?

This case is very tough for the armchair detective since nothing of major
import is revealed by investigators.

Maybe like they said before she was in a VERY emotional state, liek any mother w/a lsot child, and she "attacked" joran for info and Joran just hit his chest and said that...maybe she accused him of somethign I dont see it as scary I jsut see it as someone being defensive...I do it al the time like when we loose soemthing at home and ofcourse eferyone asks me (the motehr) I put my hand to my chest and be like "ME???I never used that! you should know where you put it!" I thiknk its just a manner of speaking ....and the dutch have a way jsut like the italians they almost "talk" with their hands

rob can i get some coffee pleeeezzeee! :roll:
u guyz go way 2 fst 4 me....

I did watch Greta last evening as per usual.  I enjoy following her reports just because she seems to be more logical in how she questions people.  Of course, with her being an attorney and coming from a family where legal matters were discussed around home doesn't hurt either.  I have followed her career for a long time.  She graduated from the same high school as my kids.  Her father was the judge we needed to go through for the adoption of our first child.  He handled many various types of cases over his many years on the bench, so I would suspect that Greta really does understand the system very well.  Even though the legal systems are a bit different.  I think her questions reflect her anticipated unfamiliarity of her listeners rather than her own.

How is this team from Tx going to bring horses into Aruba? I would think it would not be easy to just bring animals in from one country to another (dogs, included as well).  Countrys have very strict rules about animals being brought in due to disease, etc

BLueKyGirl- the mother met with joran recently? please tell

this coffee is from trinidad....

This is not a slam, but this interview comes after 3 almost 4 weeks of total frustration. It's tone and accuracy may be more a reflection of that.

From the first the family said that Joran took them to the Holiday Inn and showed them where he dropped of Natalee.

Or at least that is what I remember.  The mom said she had no conversatons with the father, but let her husband do the talking.

I don't think what she described with Joran is even a conversation, more of a confrontation.

I can tell you right now if MY daughter, and she is 28 not 18, turned up missing, and the guy she was last with was not helping me hunt her, then they could just arrest me, cause this old lady, at nearly 60, would be kicking the family jewels, pulling hair, biting, scratching, doing anyting else to him.  In fact, like the song says, the lights would go out in Georgia, they better hope I don't have a gun cause I would not miss.

I have told people my entire life that I am incapable of murder except in one situation.  My kids.  If anyone, and I mean anyone, hurt my kids, or is trying to hurt my kids, I would kill first and ask questions later.


I don't understand the tendency of people to blame Beth.

I guess the cultures are more different than I thought because American moms firght like tigers for our kids.

is that better than colombian????LOLFMOMIOMO!!!

Thanks--I wondered if it was a Dutch mannerism. I can see the scenario where Joran and his family felt defensive since Natalee's family showed up at their house in the middle of the night. I think Joren is guilty as sin, but I sort of feel sorry for him. I think he somehow got in this way over his head. I'd like to think whatever happened with Natalee was a terrible mistake, instead of an intentional act of cruelty.

 it pretty darn good....but oily...

It depends on the manner in which he did it. My son is 13 and when I accuse him of something he will pound his chest almost in saying he is sorry what can he do to fix it. Although since I wasnt there I cant say thats how Joran did it? I can see where it would be scary when you are questioning someone in a serious matter, and they may come off as violent. None of us KNOW this family or Jorans mannerism so I try hard not to pass any judgement. What we do know is he was allowed to go out to casinos and drink at night and was last seen with Natalee. Im  not defending him just trying to maintain an open mind.
Personally to me, if it was MY daughter the last thing he would have had to worry about was me asking anything. I am not sure if I felt he was responsible I wouldnt be the one sitting in an Aruban jail cell. One thing I tell most people is it is wise to NEVER mess with my kids. This is all just IMO anyway

I do not thinik that he was "bainging" his chest in a threatning way, as others have said i just think he is at the point of feelin worthless and backed in to a corner and doesnt know what to do..he is stuck and basically holding so much in that it is taking over him, he is really going to lose it soon

an innocent person would say, "what can i do to help?" not "what do you want me to do about it".. sounds incrimaniting

newspapers

http://www.bondia.com/

pdf still Monday's paper (in papiamento).  They ran the suicide attempt story on page 2 yesterday.  today's paper still not up

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/noticia/index.html

html in papiaamento sometimes updates same day news (in papiamento)  cnn has interviewed owner, yossi mansour.  thse guys placed the car following story with FOX.  

http://www.amigoe.com/  

Seems to be most serious of the three.  published in Curacao has in dutch, has english section with partial news  Does regular updates on Natalee case when developments merit.  have is missed any?   see aruba faqs on index for more info

LOLFMOMIOMO



WHAt is that??hahahaha

Now that may be a typical behavior of many children (the pounding of the chest)  a frustration because they have a guilt feeling about something and know it was wrong.  Many parents have seen that.  It could be why Beth knows that Joran is lying.

There is an in your face chest hit--I see it on rap videos and see some football players doing it.  He may not have meant it that way, but if that was the gesture, that is how Beth would have read it.

I agree, and I do think he is involved otherwise why all the lies? I was just saying that Ihave seen young guys do this before.

I thought the same thing--if I were in the position to help a mother find her child, I would do anything I could to help. I think any innocent person would. And if any of these boys were innocent, they'd be cooperating fully with the investigators--and so would their families.

but english is not his native language.

Paula, the only place I read that was riehl. Interesting speculation going that it could be an EKG. With all the talk of polys not being used, could they really be allowing for one now?

well you cant say that either becuase we don know it what "manner" the mother spoke to him.....because maybe she "attacke" him and "accused"him rite then and there....again in the state the motehr was in, i think id JUMP   on him rite there and beat him to talk! (sorry)

You are right Rob, the three boys were last one's with Nat. They would be cooperating unless they are guilty in some way with this disappearance.  I do not blame Beth for ANY of her actions.  I hope she keeps up the pressure.  I am not sure how she is keeping from "showing her butt" even more than she is... think about it, you send your straight A loving daughter on vacation, and some mongrel hurts her.  The men involved with this abduction/murder/whatever need skinning alive.

Same here. If I thought he did something to one of my kids Im sorry I dont think I would be very polite.

exactly who would be in the postion to see such a thing?

Where on riehl did you read about possible wires and cream being used or hooked up?

A quick warning about looking through the Aruban newspapers:  like many latin american countries, these newspapers show everthing in their photos.  If a major story is bad car crash where someone got killed, there is likely going to be a very bloody photo right next to that story...  sometimes complete with the dead body.  (Bon Dia is the most likely to show these as their paper is a .pdf of the actual published newspaper.)

This isn't an issue for everyone, but it is for others, so you've been warned!

ROB- yeah that was i was thinking, where would anyone get this information with everyone being so tight lipped around there

It was on the front page fairly high up.


Glad to know there are some other tiger moms out there.


Hurt our kids, we hurt you.

It's here:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/
Scroll down to "Update" section.
And Dan Riehl attributes the info to one of his sources on the island.
???

You can hire horses in Aruba.

this is true, last summer a father and another son died trying to rescue a another son caught in the rip tide, down by the runins.. about 20 pics right on the front page of diario....very spooky...

Again, this group works internationally.  They KNOW how to get entry.  All this is probably why they did not leave two day ago when they announced the trip.  To get all the needed permissions.

cream and wires?? wtf did i miss.... :?:  no sleeping on SM site!!!
last nite i had a weird drream....but no cream or wires in monkeys tree...
is sa still a full moon....or am i just early on gettin strage to day???
LOL

If the Aruba legal system obstructs Natalee's parents from recovering her or her body, the rest of the world will remember this forever.

Hi all,
I've been lurking for a bit. As a mother of teens and also a boy scout,
my heart is so full of prayer for Natalee's family and Brenndens family.  When babyJessica was in the well, my son was her age and again I was following every detail while hugging my son.
A couple years ago, we missed going to Aruba with family friends. They are following also because they love Aruba and its people.
As its been said, many of us have empathy and feel helpless.  But we also have hope and prayers for all the families involved.
BTW neither of these two stories were in our daily paper today.

i would have kicked the crap out of joran that night...i appauld ms holloway, for her restraint...another note.. yesterday there was a story about joran leaving her asleep on the beach.. that sounds to me like he is defintely the last one to see her...very incrimanting if indeed true...

LOL, it leaves a lot to the imagination, eh? But isn't Dan's a fairly reputable source of info? Maybe his "island sources" were yanking his chain. Or maybe IF it was Joran who tried to commit suicide, he was being physically examined.  If, if, if....that's the problem.

im sorry but i discounted reihl a week or two ago...

which was bro leaning on car withjvs???  how did urine get home from casino that night??

 not sure, i ve heard many different versions...

I saw that too. I told my fiance now that has to be the STUPIDEST story if he actually is claiming that. It was someone from the fbi who said it when I heard it. So I wasnt sure if it was actually true or if he was simply speculating.

Mornin' monkeys!!!!!! KNow anything good?

I hope everyone will get off Beth HT 's back.  I frankly dont know how she has held it together as well as she has.  Look, I feel sorry for JVDS's mom, she seems oblivious to what harm her son may have done. But the dad, PVDS, acts guilty of something. I think he may be withholding or modifying information regarding the disappearance.  But Beth and Jug had better KEEP UP THE PRESSURE,  and all you monkeys that want to see this case resolved better stay on top of things too. Make donations if you can to keep her parents in Aruba.  This girl did not deserve a "bad thing happening" .

not sure, i ve heard many different versions...[/quote]

good. so long as i am not cfzd right???  LOL :!:

My 5 year old asked me "Why they are they called chicken fingers?" cause she said "Chickens don't have fingers"

I had no answer and realized that is very much like this case. I either feel like a 5 year old who just had a revelation that told me something else I really didn't know the answer to.

Just heard on Fox a few minutes ago it was the 2 brothers who were sent to the prison.. sorry if this was mentioned already..also that Greta will be on tonight at 10

That news page is great.  Thanks for doing it.

i gotta get packed , im leaving on sat, and havent packed a thing yet, so i ll check back with you guys later.. good luck.. and keep your heads up! :P

The family has gotten thesearch team from Texas and there was a fund setup for them to help w/ the search....ok i know you guys are going to eat me for theis but here it goes:
do you really think that there is a big possibily that the arubans are going to donate a hell of alot after all the trashing thats been going on of their island and police forse??

UNDERSTAND i really dont want war w/ anyone its just a point I want to bring accores,,,frankly ive been kind of scared to post anything lately becuase yesterday there was a whole lot of attackign going on!

I agree, re everyone remembering Aruba if they obstruct Nat's mom.  Ya know, after three weeks, most folks world wide are starting to ask the question, "Are the Aruban law enforcement officials just inept, or are they trying to kidd glove this case."  I know already that I will in all likelihood never visit that Island, just because of this case.

Just heard on Fox a few minutes ago it was the 2 brothers who were sent to the prison.. sorry if this was mentioned already..also that Greta will be on tonight at 10

According to this report, Texas searchers only taking dogs and sonar equipment:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/062105_local_search.html

You have to look past the gore to get the info.  Thats why I have to watch FOX to glean the crumbs of real info they put out among the trash.   Warning, watching FOX may be emotionally gory too.  

Judging from their statements the last couple of days the Twittys are on a big time spear campaign against the v/d Sloots.  "Jug" used name calling, obnoxious slimeball, he turns my stomach, etc, to refer to the father.  This is a technique of personalization and demonization typical of the Southern lynch mob mentality  Hang em first and then try to figure out if they did anything wrong.  It is distasteful and uncivilized.  The southern charm mask has fallen.  Their motives are beyond reproach but their methods are geting pretty crude.  The funny thing is they are trying to get Joran to speak by blasting him on a TV he is not watching.  What is the point?    They will not pressure the Dutch legal system.  Is this an indirect way of putting the heat on the cops.  Or is it just a sensational and empty appeal?

I believe they also have side scan sonar which is a very good device for searching underwater.

Yeah i just read on riehlworld that their new story is joran left her on the beach when she became hysterical then deepak dropped off joran and satish and then went back to the beach where he was unable to find natalee.and the father of joran is sayin that he picked up joran at 3am.............. HIGHLY UNLIKELY......... and cant believe the father is just going with this...............Wow..this is really "Family suicide" for them if they dont get out of this!  This family will have to move

How does someone with "modest" means afford to attend the International School?  I was surprised that one of the Kalpoe bros was a classmate of Joran's.  That was according to the report on Fox last night.

k guys  i am going 2 work b4 it is no longer an option!!
see u later! :wink:

well you knwo ir espect your opinion and everythign but since when were crimes solved so quickly in the US? I mean there are cases that ahve gone on for years......I mean how do we not know shes alive? I mean if the US police is so competent where are all those missing children then? I mean come on do we really ahve to have those speculations?? how about chandra levy?1 whole year in W.D.C and that was w/ FBI and all the large enforcements....why cant this be the same thing???

Just my opinion

Something bad happened to NH, and those three know information about it.  I cant believe you would criticize what the mom and dad are doing.  Where is my ignore button? :(

american, We know that is why the trolls hurt although some keep saying they have the right to post.

We can have people here just to attack and then silence our good Aruban friends and the kids from Mountain brook, or we can get rid of the attackers and maybe have people here who just might know what they are talking about.

I opt for the second.


I wish people in Aruba would realize that is ONE little tiny radio station that is doing the boycott thing--and actually most of the United States does not even know that station exists.

It is like an ant hill compared to the entire country.


Most of America is seeing how incredibly beautiful the island is, and how warm and caring the people seem.

Yes, we get frustrated with the police, but we do that at home also.

Can someone point me to an official way to donate, a website or address we can link to?

Paid time off has to be running out, they still have a mortgage and other bills in the states and they are spending unbudgeted money for things in a resort area. No matter how much is being given to them by holiday inn, delta etc. If the paid time off runs out things may get tight in a hurry.

No the Kalpoe bro.s was NOT a class mate! and JOran can afford it ebcause the mother is a teacher and they probably get a discount

Thanks for the link on the update, LilOrphan

iquito s makes valid points and they should be respected...now i really going..

Well they said that deepak and joran were classmates

Through Caligirl's meticulous reseach have established on this site around 2 am today that that Deepak did not attend the international school but the local Dutch elite school, Colegiao Arubano which Satish also attends.  Arubans, is this true?

At this point seriously I dont blame arubans for being pissed. There are always going to be trouble makers who come out of the woodwork for attention if nothing else. I for one appreciate what is being done. I also think alot of people are still misinformed about the way arubans law is so much different then what were used to. Were used to knowing as much as we can get our hands on, while there if too much is said the case can be thrown out. If more ppl were aware that it could be thrown out maybe we would be more understanding and patient.

Maybe it is just the truth!

Yes that is true..they Attended Colegio Arubano ....its the highest school here that is public...you ahve to buy your books and teh yearly fee is next to nothing

duplicate

annd said that satish went to some other school, but that joran was classmates with deepak and that is why the guy said that out of the three, other than the brothers obvisouly bein close.that deepak and joran were close friends

Morning, all.
Hey Aruba, how are you today?

Yes, I heard this while I was driving in to work this morning. The other statement made by the media, was that the parents of NH are preparing/organizing to file a suit because the government, after three
weeks, has kept them in the dark on what evidence they have against
the 4 suspects.

Which, thinking about that, does anyone think it's possible for extensions of Dutch territories, such as Aruba (I say this because of it's location), to set up a new law because of the vast majority of tourists? How possible would it be for the tourists to have licensed lawyers available to represent them under the laws where they claim citizenship?

American in Aruba -- please don't respond to these digs. You must know by now that the majority of the people here are very grateful for the info you have provided. If you can find the patience, just ignore these posts. They are mean spirited and small minded and not worth your time.

Anytime.  Did you read it at Riehl or another source? And is Riehl widely disregarded as a good site now?

Morning pairofdivers..

Morning pairofdivers..

just my humble opinion, but i don't agree with the "lynch mob" mentality accusation.  i think he is a man and a father (albeit a "step") who loves this little girl, sees his wife (whom i'm sure he loves very much) in turmoil/hell, and is frustrated with the arubian LE and is desperate to get Natalee back and just wants to this thing to end.

also, i believe although i cannot prove it, but i do believe "hangings" were first introduced in the west, not the south.

because  Americans have a very short attention span and they can be stirred up easily to go in with the troops on any pretense.  We are good at  dishing it out but they can't take it.  

Ouch!

Good grief, this family has been to hell and back...cut them some slack.

AIA, yes I had supposed that about Joran and his tuition.  The attorney ( who showed Greta around) last night was asked the question about schools for the Kalpoe bros and his response was that one of the bros attended the local HS and the other had been at the International school.  This why I was surprised.  I guess I was just curious.

AMericaninaruba- i know you live there so i am not tryin to tell you are wrong, just what that guy said that greta interviewed last night...while they walked around to all the houses of the suspects! :lol:

HELP! Im sorry I have multiple posts.. I get that d~bug thing.. didnt happen to me until now.. what do I do when that happens?? Sorry!

iquitos, I usually agree with all you say, but that lynch mob comment was a little much.


The family has had three weeks to wait for the father of Joran to act like a gentleman.  I suspect if he called him a slimeball it is because that is exactly what he believes he is.


I don't put it all down to cultural reserve.  Surely Aruba has a touch of the mi casa es su case hospitality found in Hispanic cultures, even with the dutch influence.

Father should have been out helping organize searches, calling on the family daily to see what he could do to help.

If my son was the last to see a girl alive, and he was innocent and I believed he was innocent, then that is what I would be doing.

He was a reporter for Diario, right?  Most important piece of info he let slip was that Joran contacted Croes" probably at Deepak's suggestion.  Not sure if it's 100 percent certain but that goes with theories that the cell phone records led to Croes, not the boys statements. Anyone?

Morning Angie,

Yeah, I get that from time to time.
I just click "Back" and go back to the forum. Then a refresh, and you should see your post. If not, you can hit me later.  :)

Ignore it and return to the forum via the blue link in the upper left corner (below the monkeys.)  Your post does show up - no need to post again.

Im sorry can you inform me about this?I dont get that channel here (sorry)

Jug may be the most frustrated in the family, he is the step father. He has to watch his wife anguish over her biological daughter. Her Ex has been out looking everyday for her. Jug can make very few decisions in any of this and his hands are tied in more ways than I can tell you. I am saying anything negative here, just that jug is probably used to taking matters into his own and hands formulating a plan or not and implementing.

It seems like Deepak is connected to everyone--friends with Joren from school (if they indeed went to the same school); brothers with Satish; and friends with Steve Croes from the Internet cafe. It seems like everything is focusing on Joren but something's very suspicious about the brothers' involvement--especially Deepak. I'm also trying to figure out where Steve Croes comes into play, because he's being portrayed as a nice guy--and people on the blogs have said he's nice, too. All this speculation is driving me crazy--but I'm addicted!

Thank you..! :)

very well said, and as the mother of two little boys, i would be doing the same thing if my teenaged son were innocent, heck, even if he was not innocent, i would be helping and/or cooperating in anyway i can to help find her.

I don't think that guy showing her around knew what he was talking about a big part of the time.

Problem is...they are IN hell...and HAVENT been able to get back.

I think you're crossing a line here....take the gloves off.

Greta's interlocutor was probably wrong according the some very astute reseachers on scared monkey who are way ahead of greta.

Nice job on the newsfeed, absolut.  Noticed someone on there (edited: someone commenting on ScaredMonkeys ABOUT the newsfeed) suggested Croes went in voluntarily for the reward. Hmm. If that's so, seems it backfired. <NOTE: just rumor and speculation -- nothing to back it up -- commenting on a comment I saw.>

LilOrphan;
I like Riehl and I like here...both are excellent, especially with Satellite Monkey ArubaGirl and the other Satellite Monkeys...I forgot the names, sorry.

To AmericaninAruba and ArubaGirl; In regards to something you said along the lines of do you think Aruba will donate money after bashing? Would you? If you could, donate money? I know that I, even if my country was being bashed, would donate money. I think Aruba is like U.S. in that way. No one wants to be looked down on or bashed, but when it comes to the nitty-gritty, we're on board and want to help. Wrong is always wrong no matter where you live, and Right/good is always the side the majority wants to be on.
Just my opinion.
I see you come here every day, even when trolls are blasting, yet you still return to help! That is right/good and nothing can change thank. Thanks, AmericaninAruba and ArubaGir and othersl!

AIA, hang in there.  Don't take it personally that people are bashing Aruba.  If this case were in Moutainbrook, Alabama, people would be bashing the police department there.  A few years ago, we had a serial killer murdering women in our area and you wouldn't believe the bashing that the local police received.  Most Americans (me included) have watched too many episodes of CSI, where the crime is solved in an hour, and we don't realize that it's not that simple in real life.  I'm sure the Aruba officials are doing all they can and we should be happy that they've let any American officials help with the case since they didn't have to do that.  Do I wish they would find Natalee quickly?  Yes.  Do I think that is going to happen?  No.  This is real life and we have to accept that these things aren't always that easy.  What is easy, however, is for us to sit here and play arm-chair quarterback, second guessing every move they make, when we aren't there and don't know what they are or are not doing.  We've also come to expect the MSM to keep us informed.  But, that's not always the best thing to do for the case and we need to accept that fact.  If they solve the case and find that Joran murdered Natalee, wouldn't it be heartbreaking for the family and everyone else involved if they couldn't put him away for his crime because  our need to know every little detail had compromised the case to where he couldn't be convicted?

AMericaninaruba----Yeah i think he said it was through Email!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chloe, I am sorry you perceive my post as mean spirited.  I have high respect for all Carribean natives, I have traveled there and know the area.  Most people have a breaking point, and want resolution on this matter.  If you steal my wallet, and I see you do it, and you stonewall me for three weeks,  am I to say, " please ms. bad person, could you kindly give me my wallet back, it is very precious to me and I really need it back" Aruba law enforcement is stonewalling.

So if Joran doesn't go to school with the Kalpoe brothers, where is the connection or how did they meet?  I read  in a post somewhere that they had not known each other for long.
I heard on tv last night that the DJ from Tattoo came into the internet cafe where Deepak worked.  Did Joran go to that same internet cafe?  Is this a nice internet cafe or is this a rough crowd?  Is it a place where drug deals are made?  I can't imagine that an internet cafe in Aruba would be that lucrative on an island that depends on tourists who are probably trying to get away from work.  Perhaps the internet cafe is more for those who want to send emails from a public place so that their location does not point directly to their house.

AIA- mornin' you can also look it up on Gretawire.com thanks for all your help on here

Did anone else see FOX al litte bit ago when they had Marriane Croes on and the former DC homicide detective?? She said the 2 brothers were sent to the prison.. if so. I dont understand why Joran wasnt sent yet then.. that wasnt questioned!

they were walking aroudn to each suspects house...talking about what house was considered upper class, who went to what school and how it ranked in expensivness.....who went to what school..how steve met the other suspects...by being at the internet cafe that deepak worked at....guess they met through there...and that is where he stated that deepak and joran were the closest and that steve croes met deepak at the cafe and were only friends for about a year or so..and that steves name may haev leaked through an email!

Exactly! Look my son was abducted...granted by his father but it was at gunpoint and very scary. You really cant imagine how horrible it feels. My heart goes out to her parents because you are in no way in control when your child is missing. It is hard to even think, eat, and forget emotional stability. I think they have kept it together longer then I know I did.  Her family needs to find her, that is all thats on their minds right now. They know one of these 3 knows what happened or atleast can point them in the right direction. So they are frustrated! and rightfully so.

<<There is some indication that the pro-active Alabama folks may have contaminated the investigation in their zeal to get to the botom of Natalees disappearance.  It would have been enough to identify Joran to the police.>>  


To place the blame for any "contamination" on Natalee's family is absurd.  I don't see what going after BHT accomplishes; she did not participate in the interrogation, and she was likely unclear about what she could and should say about her brief meeting with Joran.  And the imagery provoked by phrases like "Alabama posse" is, frankly, distasteful.

On the night of May 31, the top priority was not investigation purity.  It was preservation of life.  If that priority is going to be ignored, there really isn't any point to law enforcement, prosecution, and pretty much every other function of government.

On the night of May 31, Natalee was, and still is, missing.  She wasn't confirmed dead, but it was pretty clear she wasn't at the movies, either.  For all anyone knew, she was dying at that moment.

On the night of May 31, the interest of saving Natalee's life was best served by getting information from JVDS.  Not in the morning.  Not 48 hours later.  Not after a couple of "Ladies' Night" no-shows.  But immediately.

There is no valid reason why serving the top priority - preservation of life - could be done without compromising an important secondary concern - investigation purity.  If contact by the Holloway family group with Joran would compromise the investigation, then it was the duty of law enforcement to prevent that from happening.  But since the top priority still has not been served, it was also their duty to conduct an immediate, formal interrogation of Joran without outside interference.

The failure to meet these clear, simple duties does not go to the Holloway family's discredit.  It goes to Aruban law enforcement's.

There is obviously pain and resentment on both sides, People please keep in mind emotions are just that emotions, good or bad.  I am just worried that after days of holding and interrogation we don't have a clear confession.  Why is that? I don't or can't buy wholesale that he has not cracked or coach., once you get pass that your really going into uncharted territory.  That visiting Judge sure looks like a mean bulldog, and he spent hours with each suspect, digging any evidence to hold them another 8 days.

 

In addition to CSI is there not a show called cold case file? hope they find her asap but the possiblity exists they won't too.

Once I saw that the guy feeding her information was so obviously wrong about the schools, I pretty much ghosted anything else he said.  He also said that the tattoo had a trip on Sunday night but all our regulars say it does not go out on Sunday.

I think he fed her bad stuff and tht might or might not even be the brother's home.

AMERICANINARUBA- Dont be sorry...its ok..you have been soooo helpful with everything you have been relaying to us..so thank you...! :lol:

Iquitos,

There is a show called Cold Case File, I believe, but since it comes on CourtTV or something like that, it doesn't have nearly the viewers of CSI.  Thats why we don't think about it taking a long time to solve a case.   More people are used to watching CSI, one of the top rated shows (and it comes on three times a week, I think) where the crimes are solved quickly.  :)

Yes, I don't think the poor guy really knew what he was talking about either. Sometimes it seemed like he was making things up, like when Greta asked him how long Deepak had known Steve Croes and he said he didn't know but he thought it wasn't more than a year. I mean, either you don't know or you do![/i]

yeah there is a show called cold case

There is a show called Cold Case, and one called Cold Case Files. Cold Case Files shows them actually breaking cold cases, real life cold cases. The show called Cold Case is a show a little like CSI and is fiction, I think it is on CBS or something, and the other one is on Discovery Channel I believe.

Do an interview at the internet cafe and see who goes in there

when i used to work retail in a department store, our security told us that even though we may see an employee stealing, it may take them a while before they actually arrest that employee, because they will wait and let that employee think he or she is getting away with something and b/c of them waiting, the crooked employee will get greedier and greedier and take more and more, and then they will have the evidence to put that crooked employee away for a long time.  it's called "building a case".

i would like to believe that perhaps arubian law enforcement are building a case around who they believe to be the perpetrator of this crime, (whether it be joran, deepak, satish, or croes, or all of them) and in what seems to be taking forever, perhaps they are building enough evidence (b/c there is lack of a body) to be able to put who they believe is the perpetrator away for a long, long, long time.

of course at times, i do believe they are "stonewalling".  i think we are all (americans, arubans, etc.) frustrated a bit.

i would like to thank aia and all the others who have taken the time to glean information, translate information, build other webpages, etc. to keep all of us informed on all of this.  my sincerest "thanks" goes out to each and everyone of you.

I have finally got up to date on the overnight posts. I was seaching for comments on the report of Greta van Susteren, especially her interview with Beth Twitty.

These interviews with Beth Twitty are important sources of information, and we should listen carefully to WHAT IS SAID as well as to WHAT IS NOT SAID. A lot of you missed some REALLY important information.

First, Beth Twitty mentioned that they had hired an Aruban lawyer to explore EVERY LEGAL AVENUE to get resolution to this case. That includes filing motions to gain access to information, and might have implied that that might also include civil suits agains the defendants, in the even that the criminal justice system turns into a clusterf**k.

Second, Beth Twitty made it clear that SHE WAS NOT LEAVING THE ISLAND until she gains some resolution to the case. Listen up you Aruban authorities. This is no longer a woman making demands. This is a woman making a PROMISE. This is a BIG development, folks, and one that the Aruban authorities are apparently taking seriously. I noticed a dramatic change in the attitude of Aruban spokesman Reuben Trappenberg in this interview, and I speculate that he takes has finally come to the conclusion that he needs to take this lady seriously.

Third, Greta has been successful in developing rapport with many different sources, including spokesmen Gomez and Trappenberg, and was able to ask many procedural questions, dealing with the Aruban legal system and get straight answers.

Fourth, Greta had cameramen ALL OVER THE ISLAND.

Fifth, Greta asked Beth Twitty, at the conclusion of her interview, "What can I do, to help?" This was a personal question, and went beyond anything Greta has ever asked any other interviewee. My take on this is that Greta has chosen to fight this thing to the finish. Given her legal background, it is a project for which she is uniquely qualified. Perhaps it is the cause of a lifetime. Tough questions will certainly come later, but Greta has established rapport and has established her credentials with the Aruban legal authorities, so they will never be able to come back and act condescending later. My take is that GRETA IS THERE FOR THE DURATION of this case.

Fox on now.. former FBI agent on..  The reporter on now says Aruba police perhaps are stumped.. I cant see my tv from here...
this man is talking about the FBI and forensics...

Since when do people who commit crimes spill their guts?  I am confused as to why we think they will just tell all.   Very very very infrequently you will get a confession.  I would guess 99% of the time you don't so why would anyone (including NH's mom) expect them to confess all??  I am not saying this to cause a war I am just confounded by everyone acting like it's odd there has been no breakdown and confession - when does that happen in the real world?  Just my thoughts-no need to attack.

DJ faces same accusation as the other 3, 2 counts of murder and 1 count of kidnapping leading to murder

thank you guys for all the support of not only me and my very low suppply of patient ut also of this beautiful island ive been calling home for 9 eyars now.....I thank you very much for that! also I wouldd as much as anyone see this thign resolved being al the familes that are now "broken" and involved in this problem....we all need to pray for these children becasue thats what they are children they all have parents that see them as there "kids" and we need to keep positive thoughts with allthats going on here and pray for a safe return to see the nmother and father s faces of comoeete JOY as this is resolved to get hteri daughter back alive....we need to keep positive thoughts and prayers FLOWING! thank you again for all the support for this family and there freinds also for aruba

Im confused?? '2' counts of murder??  Yikes

Very true! Case in point: Scott Peterson....he has never confessed

MominTn,
I like the way you think.  An interview at the internet cafe seems very appropo.  Good next step for Greta.

Wher are you hearing this about possible charges being brought to these boys? how can they be throwin out possible charges without any evidence? if that is the case, they must have something solid now!

Was on the bottom of the tv on the scroll feed on CNN

quick, somebody email her that idea!!!   :D

Greta was talking to the Diario Reporter as well as Jossy Mansur (an influential family). The reporter is as far as I can tell being very honest and informative.  The issue you have with specific is that Greta was asking how long exactly Deepak knew SGC.  In Papiamento, saying I'm not sure, if you translate it to English means "I do not Know".  as opposed to "I am not sure"... Basically his is saying he is not sure the exact date they met  but is guessing its around a year.

Thanks MominTN.. I havnt watched CNN...mainly have Fox on.

mominTN - not to be confrontational...can you source that?

Gerben or anyone, can you shed light on why two counts of murder?

Thanks for clarifying!

 

Goon, your consistent, cogent, and obviously professionally informed observations are appreciated.  The Twittys arrived to find little had happened on the ground since it was noticed that Natalee was gone and they had to get the ball rolling immediately and they did.  Did you see the comment off the Scared Monkey main board I posted earlier form another LE person?  I am just observing that the effort may have gone too far and that is too bad.  The worst part is that even their effort was not enough to jump start the investigation  This is common in my experience overseas handling these cases.  Missing persons is a low priority until it is obvious that something bad has happened.   An island that depends on tourism sees lots of people go temporarily missing but to not take each one dead seriously is at their peril as this case has illustrated.

Below is the information about the fund set up in Meridian, MS where Dave Holloway lives.  I believe that there is also a fund set up in Mountain Brook and that the TX Equine people are also accepting donations.

Link to the bank's website: http://www.trustmark.com/

From our local news (WTOK-TV):
http://www.wtok.com/news/headlines/1643201.html

...In Meridian, friends of the Holloway family are trying to help in a major way with the family's expenses.

...While police continue investigating the disappearance of Natalee in Aruba, friends of Dave and Robin Holloway, Natalee's father and stepmother who live in Meridian, are trying to assist the family financially by holding a fundraiser.

"We're just trying to do what we can. It is a sad situation and it is only right for us to do something," said Andrew Hart, a friend of Dave Holloway.

According to Hart, Dave Holloway has already spent almost $20,000 so far in the search for his daughter.

"We will be collecting funds at the (Mississippi) Braves game (in Pearl, Miss.) before and after the game," he said, referring to the June 17 game versus West Tennessee, starting at 7:05 p.m.

"We're just doing what we can to help," said Steve DeSalvo, general manager of the Mississippi Braves, who was in Meridian Thursday.

The money collected will be put into the "Help Find Natalee" Fund set up at Trustmark National Bank, to which anyone may donate just by going to any branch and designating the gift.

how can they be facing two counts of murder? and why would they be relaeasing that information all of a sudden, when they woudlnt give us anything before... i dont understand this at all

You are right on with your comments. I  believe that if Beth H does not push, and had not pushed, this would have been swept under the rug.

2 counts does not neccessarily mean two murders.  i'm sure in aruban law as was as american law, there are different counts for different types.  usually, the prosecution won't rely on going after just one count of murder, they will usually add as many that are relevant to the case.  kind of like bad, worse, and worst murder counts.  does that make sense?  can you tell that i'm no lawyer nor do i know much about american law, much less aruban law?  LOL!   :P

This may be significant.  I would tend to agree if what was said last night by the local attorney is true.  When asked about cases being tried without a "body" his response was that it seldom happens.  (not that it could not happen)  I took that as meaning under the judicial system they do not have many cases with circumstantial evidence.  This was just my impression.  That being the case, why would any suspect help find the evidence.  Why would they help find Natalee when it would be to their advantage not to have her found?  Again this is just speculation.  Now I am speaking of the suspects, and not the innocent people of the island.

Ohhhhhhhhh ok like Murder 1, murder 2, manslaughter and all that..ok ok..i got it..wow they must have some bad news for us then...if they are facing that now! :cry:

Thanks bamajo.. I still am confised of the fact the brothers were moved to prison.. thats what Marianne Croes reported earlier.. so why wasnt Joran moved with them then?? Hmmmm

first degree murder in the us is premediated....not an accident , wonder if that is the same..?

I was doing some research yesterday on cases that were similar to this.

Check into the following:

Murder in Paradise          by Chris Loos
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060093463/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-0074471-1688810#readerpage
""Hawaii is Heaven-on-Earth, with its soft, flower-scented breezes, clear turquoise ocean water, and gently swaying palms. But on Christmas Eve 1991, it became a place of darkest evil, when Dana Ireland was kidnapped by three strangers, raped, savagely beaten, and left to die in the early hours of Christmas morning. A vivacious, 23-year-old visitor to the "Big Island," her life ended prematurely thanks to a terrible, senseless assault and the failure of rescue workers to reach the crime scene on time.""

-and-

Murder in Paradise          by Lisa Pulitzer
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312984448/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-0074471-1688810#readerpage
""On January 15, 2000, the bruised body of thirty-four-year-old Lois McMillan, a Connecticut artist vacationing in the British Virgin Islands, was discovered draped across the rocks of an inlet where she had apparently drowned in the Caribbean waves. Local authorities on the little paradise of Tortola quickly confirmed that it was no accident. The police immediately found their suspects-four young, rich American tourists. Within twenty-four hours, the men were arrested for murder and went from a life of carefree luxury to cold jail cells. Each had an alibi. None of them had a motive. And there was no direct evidence linking any of them to Lois's death. Did authorities even have the right men? Was it a rush to judgment-a desperate attempt to save Tortola's reputation for peace and safety-or were these men hiding a terrible crime. A twisting tale of swift island justice that was just beginning. So was the intricate puzzle of the lives of the four men in question, and the truth of what really happened during Lois McMillen's tragic final hours.""

I also saw a report of a missing person case, that took place in Louisiana about a decade ago, where a guy gave a woman a ride, she disappeared, and he was never convicted... I'd have to look it up again to find it...

<<This is a technique of personalization and demonization typical of the Southern lynch mob mentality Hang em first and then try to figure out if they did anything wrong. It is distasteful and uncivilized.>>

Funny, I thought it was Aruban law enforcement who picked up, arrested, and placed the specter of murder charges over two black men who had absolutely no connection to NH.

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: AMIGOE CURACAO   
AMIGOE CURACAO

Aruba
Aanhouding vierde verdachte verlengd
20 Jun, 2005, 17:04 (GMT -04:00)


ORANJESTAD — Three weeks after the american student Natalee Holloway disappeared there is not a trace of her. The public Ministry has arrested four and is continuously questioning witnesses and following up tips. This morning Steve Croes was before the Judge Commissioner and his detention was extended.

Paul van der Sloot, the father of 17 year old suspect Joran van der Sloot, was heard for a long time Saturday as a witness. The three other young suspects in the Holloway-case are meanwhile transferred to the holding house (KIA). The 19 year old Satish Kalpoe was moved Friday night to KIA. His older brother Deepak and Joran van de Sloot were transferred today.

It is known of the KIA that suspects can have contact with eachother and fine tune their stories with eachother. According to Papito Comenencia, police spokesman that will also happen in the Holloway-zaak. Comenencia: “They will surely talk to eachother in KIA, and we have a problem with that." According to Mariaine Croes, spokesperson for the Public Ministry, the holding of the suspects at KIA does not have to be a problem. Croes: “The minor will be in a special area for minors and the other two can be separated if that is necessary. Freddie Maduro, KIA director, said that all three will go in the minors section and will be placed so they have no contact with eachother.

26 year old Steve Croes was arraigned today before the judge commissioner who extended his detention for 8 days. Croes was picked up at his house in Casariba, in Santa Cruz. He is suspected of the same matters as the three young people, accessory to murder, accessory to manlaughter (doodslag) or intentional kidnapping (opzettelijke vrijheidsberoving). Croes is DJ on the partyboat de Tattoo.

According to Comenencia Paul van der Sloot was heard as a witness a total of three times. Comenencia: “We hear witnesses all the time, the whole time now. That someone is heard as a witness does not mean that they are a suspect."
Back to top
___________

Not sure if anyone read or if it was posted--but what the hell is this story about now...  I found it on http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/update_2.html

I have also heard that some have said the boys have changed their statement yet, again - suggesting that Natalee was left alone at the beach after becoming hysterical at the beach near the Marriot. If true, this version of a statement suggests that the elder Kalpoe, Deepak, dropped off both Joran and Satish before returning to the beach, where he was reportedly unable to find Natalee Holloway.

As this clearly departs from statements attributed to the Paulus Van der Sloot that he picked up Joran at a McDonalds at approximately 3 AM, it apears that so many statements have either come out, or are alleged to have come out of this case, that not a single one can be relied upon as true, or even confirmed at this time.

Update: Forgot to mention that it was also relayed to me that Joran v d Sloot would not join the two Kalpoe brothers at the prison, but would remain where he is being held. When I asked if that was because of his status as a minor, there was no clear answer. It was suggested that it could be that, or that it was so his questioning could be continued.


THEN I saw this post in response to the above:

Someone from Aruba reported the McDonald's closes at 1 am !!!

Just a bit of info about the search group going from Texas. They were not HIRED by the NH family. This is a volunteer nonprofit organization that is funded solely by dontations. A request came from NH's uncle to the group for help.

 Not only do they have mounted search teams, they also have teams for foot searches, water, air and 4x4 searches. They have been quite successful in water recoveries. I believe that they have made something like 38 recoveries from water in the last 4 years.  They have been involved in other international searches so I wouldn't expect any "international incidents" to arise in Aruba.

Well, there WAS a decapitation recently in Aruba.  I think that is kinda "coincidental" for a nation who has a relatively low crime rate.  It is highly possible all this is connected.

Bravo, Goonsquad.

I also found iquitos comments in poor taste. "Alabama posse." was uncalled for. I just pray that you are never put into that position, where you have to track down the prime suspects on your own.

The "Gringo" comment was also uncalled for. The fact that the United States has graced Aruba with the majority of their tourist trade should be the cause for gratitude, rather than calling us Gringos.

thanks so much for that information!

You can also read Greta view of Aruba posted at the 1 st page here on this website.  She actually appear to like Aruba, and if you listen to the comments of Reuben, there is a separation of Government and the Judicial.  Same here in the United States.  The amount of Police work started the day of dissapearence, starting from the beach patrol gathering information.   I take offense when someone spouts out that is or that is a clusterf**k.  Do I need to show examples right here in the US?  Do you think the DEA and FBI is not playing a part? Do you not think that there is a working relationship already?  Do you even remember that the FBI told Beth Holloway not to give too much new releases??  The last time I saw the FBI stood for FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION. (OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

iquitos, thanks for the amigoe article that makes the 2 murder counts more understandable.

Some interesting information regarding Aruba and Jossy Mansur (from the newspaper) and his family.  I've been to Aruba and I love Aruba, but the more I read about it, the more I start to wonder what really goes on there.  Some very early posts on this board said something about this going right to the top of Aruba government and "things would change" after this case was closed.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/undocs/session67/view883.htm

http://www.public-i.org/report.aspx?aid=355&sid=100

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

http://www.tobacco.org/articles/country/aruba/

I'm from Chicago, and I know how our local government works, so I guess it doesn't surprise me how politics and business can get out of hand without too many people noticing.  Its more about "who you know" than doing the right thing.

If you search on the internet without filters you will find some very seedy posts talking about finding women or prostitutes in Aruba.  Maybe the internet cafe is also used to find information for things like that anonymously.

If you can send email anonymously, write this man and see if he has any information.
http://www.firsthooker.com/wsg/

If you are in Aruba, read this and see if these bars still exist and if the prostitutes in there saw Natalee or heard of her where abouts.  She may have been hidden in one of their houses for prostitutes or drug addicts.
http://www.firsthooker.com/wsg/aruba_general.htm

Check this page for info from State Dept...

http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/46616.htm

for the record iquitos is not an aruban by a long shot.  don't want to besmirch their good reputation by association.  In the past for those who actually read here,  have quoted from the Alabama press one of the Alabama delegation that night in describing their get together with Joran on his doorstep, as saying "we basically interogated him."   (For like two hours).   He said it, i didn't.  Dan reported early on that there was a confrontation that had to be broken up by police.  These are just insights.  If the v/d sloots were not cooperative, the Twittys have a beef.  But there always two points of view and we don't know the other one.   mr v/d sloot is silenced and it looks like they have both chosen silence.  they would probably not come off very well on American TV anyway.  They have a right to defend their kid too and it may have been to late to save Natalee by then anyway, especially if they knew what happened to her.

I checked it out. Oh my. :roll:

Ok I clicked otn he 2nd link: the bars dont exist anymore! rthis must be VERY VERYold!
whre "sherrs" cafe use dto is behignd the c&C isnow but more onthemain road...nwo theires TANTRA nightclub, and UNDER tantra is wehre the CEllar USED to be

THANKS for the links and Hello to another fellow Chicagoan!!!

professor, also stated in that interview , was BHT saying , "I look forward to talking to you (Greta), about some of this"..they appear to be having private conversations behind the scenes..i dont recall greta giving her "insight" to past families, just getting the facts out.. your thoughts?

I know this has already been answered b/c I saw the question on the board last night but I'm afraid I fell asleep before someone answered it and can't find it through a search

What does cream and wires mean? is that a polygraph?

These souces claim that Aruba's primary industry is not tourism, but money laundering for South American drug cartels. So, it appears that a tourist boycott of the island really wouldn't have that much of an effect, in the event that one is called for, except that tourism might provide the activity -- in places like the casinos and clubs -- that would make money laundering possible.

Hey, I'm just going by these documented sources.

REMINDER:    If someone is offended easily, perhaps an open discussion board is not for them.

Let's take each persons post for what it is, their opinion.  It doesn't mean you have to like it, or agree with it.    If someone can really bother you by posting on a bulletin board, perhaps you should step back... take a breather and reflect on all that is good in your life.

Back to work for me...   :cry:

money laundering is big business all over the world and the drug cartels "learned" it from other businesses. insurance being a prime example.

Yes.  The cream is a conducting cream that is put on the skin to get better conductivity for the wires that are attached to the body.

Greta may be cleaning up for fox after the promises Geraldo made to them when he was kissing them in the ear. The same night he was sucking up to the prime minister. When the anchors disappeared so did the twittys. Beth's last interveiw from last week with Greta was played all weekend. The family may have asked why Fox dropped them. Remember they can't see fox on TV.

Judge Napalitano (on Fox) said that there was only 1 case in Holland 10 years ago where they were able to try someone for murder without a body, and that he wasn't sure it was even legally possible in Aruba.  He also said that America had the same rules until about 25 years ago.

Of course, if one of the boys confess then they can get a conviction.  Perhaps, if Steve Croes was only tangentially involved (as in selling drugs to Deepak), and if he knows what happened, it could lead one of the three to crack.  

AIA:  Any idea if Steve Croes might have sold drugs from time to time, as I've seen rumored on this and other boards?

I heard about this too-i think on Fox or CNN or somewhere.  In the law in Aruba, Please correct me if I am wrong, it was mentioned, to hold the supsects like they are there must be specific "counts" and it doesn't necessarily mean that is what happened--it is what they are in suspicon of-since idea where she may be and no correct stories.

Also-the 2 brothers in prison-I read they are doing that so the boys are not together again to talk.  When they were originally brought in-all 3 were in a cell and then split apart.  They figured bringing the 3 to the prison-they will talk again to match their stories-so they are trying to avoid that.

I also heard last night on Fox-Mrs Twitty Holloway and the family are going to sue Aruba govt b/c of facts and info not being released.  But they said it may not happen or can take a long time b/c they hired an attorney from Aruba that is currently working on a case.

It's not a smear campaign, how can you call it that when their daughter is missing. Are you friends of the slimeballs, do you have kids, what is your problem.? I would do even more than that!! I am from Florida, and yes i would hang someone if they hurt my child...

I have got a question maybe someone can answer regarding the Texas Equine S&R.

How are the horse transported?

Is the plane made up like a stock trailer?

Do the horses need to be preped before a flight? Change in feed or water? Sedated?

Does a vet go with the group?

How many horses are going?

 Just wondering. I've got animals & know the kinds of stuff you can into moving them. God Bless Texas.
Thanks! :)

I don't think they are taking horses, they are taking dogs and sonar equipment.

On many blogs, about various subjects) I have noticed the word "TRACKBACK."

When there is a "trackback," the numbers of trackbacks are listed. When I paste the trackback into the address bar, this message appears:
'URL needed'

What is a trackback. What is the purpose of a trackback?

SL

If you ever have a child missing (God forbid),  that will not give you a license to smear anybody except the people that did it.  In this case, while there are people under suspicion, it remains to be seen who the guilty party is.

Can anyone here clear up/answer the contraditons and items highlighted below?

From: http://scaredmonkeys.com/
Suicide Watch for Joran?
June 20th, 2005 by Scared Monkeys -->

This is unconfirmed, but we received word that Joran is on a Suicide Watch after an unsuccessful attempted suicide last night.
This should not be taken as an admission of guilt, but he has been moved to the main prison, a much tougher environment than the police jail.

From: http://www.riehlworldview.com/
Update

A source on the island tells me that he has confirmed that Joran was seen having a cream and wires attached to him (what does this mean?) in his location at the jail this evening and his interrogation continues while the two Kalpoe brothers have been taken to the prison, as has been previously reported.

Addtionally, it was stated that it is possible that the youngest Kalpoe, Satish may even be released as it is thought he might not have as direct a connection to events as some others. That has not been confirmed with another source at this time.

I have also heard that some have said the boys have changed their statement yet, again - suggesting that Natalee was left alone at the beach after becoming hysterical at the beach near the Marriot. If true, this version of a statement suggests that the elder Kalpoe, Deepak, dropped off both Joran and Satish before returning to the beach, where he was reportedly unable to find Natalee Holloway. (This more-or-less supports CaliGirl's theory)

As this clearly departs from statements attributed to the Paulus Van der Sloot that he picked up Joran at a McDonalds at approximately 3 AM, it apears that so many statements have either come out, or are alleged to have come out of this case, that not a single one can be relied upon as true, or even confirmed at this time.

Update: Forgot to mention that it was also relayed to me that Joran v d Sloot would not join the two Kalpoe brothers at the prison, but would remain where he is being held. When I asked if that was because of his status as a minor, there was no clear answer. It was suggested that it could be that, or that it was so his questioning could be continued.

 

1.  Have kids, would defend them to the death.

2.  Not friends of the v/d Sloots.  

3.  Do not see what purpose namecalling on all the networks for two days serves except to get it off one's chest.  

4.  willingness to hang somebody if they did something to your kids is why we have police and courts: to protect the innocent from mob rule.

TOUCHE'

I'm betting they will take some of the horses...they'll be useful, for sure. I've always wondered how horses are transported by plane...but I'm VERY sure they have to be sedated. I've been working with Saddlebreds for a while though, so I may just be used to the moronic horses...but even mine (QuarterHorse-Paint...quiet) would need sedating. And a vet had BETTER be going with the group! That's a common sense safety measure...any time extensive trail riding in unfamiliar territory is involved, there should be an easy way to reach a vet. You never know...

Thanks! I didn't  know. I just assumed it was horses. :)

would you mind either reposting or repeating caligirl's theory.  i have forgotten it.  thanks.   :D

... except them boys was not hanged.  the proseuctor got to the bottom of it and let them go un scathed.  

That's why I hate newsscrolls, they just confuse everbody. It's indeed two counts. Premeditated murder and manslaughter.

In the first count, the DA (Officier van Justitie) has to prove that the death of miss Holloway, if she is indeed found dead, was not an accident but deliberatly caused by someone and that the murderer can be considered sane when he killed her.

In the second count (like murder 2) this case will be treated as manslaughter under influence of drugs/alcohol

The difference for the suspect is that the sentences for manslaughter tend to be lower. The same as in the US.

a big HI to mbhs05!

 :D

I'm betting they'll take the horses. They'll be useful in the hard-to-reach places. See my above post.

Hi bamajo!

I live about an hour outside of DC, I thought I would post this link for some levity and for the ironic factor.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/21/police.chief.ap/index.html

I can only address this part.  There was one report of a suicide yesterday in an Aruban paper...nothing anywhere else. The article as far as I can tell does not state whether it happened in the Jail or the Prison. Here is the link to the translated article.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?p=18603&highlight=&sid=d9c5e3b4ce58d3c887364d3deac7f4ec#18603

 

Gerben you are a great asset to this site.  keep up the good work.

If they dont take horses it might be they are planning on gaining use of horses already on the island.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering about that.  :)

I believe there are horses in Aruba. :)

Also nothing has been stated that they are planning on doing mounted searches.

Good point...I just assume they'll be taking them, but it says that a lot of the horses are owned privately and the horse and rider pairs volunteer...so they might have a hard time getting over there. Are there horses on Aruba? A lot I mean...hmmm...they'll need some sane ones to do searches like that.

Well let's be hopeful today once the search party from Texas gets there - they will be able to get more insite.

>>>I have also heard that some have said the boys have changed their statement yet, again - suggesting that Natalee was left alone at the beach after becoming hysterical at the beach near the Marriot. If true, this version of a statement suggests that the elder Kalpoe, Deepak, dropped off both Joran and Satish before returning to the beach, where he was reportedly unable to find Natalee Holloway. (This more-or-less supports CaliGirl's theory)<<<<<

If this is the "current story", it's just as bad as the others...  Why was she "hysterical"? Could it be because you raped her and/or drugged her up? You mean you did'nt call the police to help this "hysterical" girl??  You just walked away from her at what 2am???  

If it's true that the story has changed again, I think it will further prove to a judge that something is wrong here.  Too many lies, as documented by the suspects and the father.

icey

Sorry  had to take a break and get some work done..and this may be off subject and may have been asked previusly..but does NH have any brothers or sisters??

Younger brother...10th grade. Older step brother.

This is extraordinary for Greta, and I don't know quite what to make of it. Certainly, there is something more here than just professional interest. No doubt, there are discussions going on behind the scenes, and there are sources of information that have been given to Greta that she is not revealing -- at this point.

For a long time, I tuned out Greta. I found her fascination of various prosecutions -- like the Peterson prosecution -- almost ghoulish. But I came to realize that she is fascinated by the rules of evidence and the workings of the criminal justice system. After all, she is a highly-trained attorney, and at times comes across as a frustrated prosecutor. She probably would be happier as a district attorney than as a television personality.

But this case gives her a cause, and gives her an opportunity to use ALL of her skills.

She sticks to a case, long after many viewers have tuned out. In the past, I viewed this as a weakness. But, with the Holloway case, I now view it as a strength. She isn't going to get yanked-- like Geraldo -- by some antsy producer looking at declining ratings.

Morning, MBHS05..

Here you go:

I wouldn't think so.  There is an old saying to the effect " A horse & rider share a great secret". It has to do with the understanding that a particular horse has with a particular rider.
A horse & rider  work like a team/couple. There is a great amount of affection on both sides. That type of work wouldn't be the best time to "switch horses". :)

Thank you MBHS.. My prayers to her siblings as well as everyone else.

There are horses in Aruba.  There are also many areas with thick growths of cacti.  They look impossible to penetrate.  I've only driven by them, but they look like they would be ideal locations to hide something.

Morning!

There is also a younger step or half sister on her father's side because there is a reference to her in one of the articles about him.

Agreed...but on the other hand if they CAN'T take all of the horses...a competent rider should be able to handle a different horse. It's better than nothing. I can see how it would be hard to get the original pairs out there.

Thank you.. again sorry if this was asked already.!
I was watching Fox again a little bit ago..anyone else see the men on there that are experts in international law?

Very good post. You have to look at both sides here. We have the benefit of hindsight, of course, and we know something bad has happened. But at the time, to the Aruban LE, it was another dime-a-dozen missing girl. They can't call the FBI for every one of them, because usually it's a false alarm.

My brother works as a ski patrol and avalanche rescue guy. Kids (and others) are always getting lost on the mountain, and mothers freak out, and usually (99% of the time) it's nothing. But in an alpine environment, you can't wait. You have to check. You have to find them before dark. It's frustrating, though, for the patrollers because they spend (waste) a lot of time on situations that aren't dangerous. I'm sure this is how the Arubans felt initially.

Natalee's family, of course, knows that she wouldn't have missed the plane. The two groups weren't on the same page, and thus you end up with Natalee's family interrogating the VDSs, which compromised a criminal investigation (not faulting them, because the investigation hadn't started yet) and tipped off the VDSs. I think some of the Holloways' defensiveness and irritability is attributable to some guilt over this. (Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't have gone there looking for her. It was a no-win situation.)

THe police obviously screwed this one up, because they probably still didn't think it was going to turn into a criminal investigation. With hindsight, I'm sure LE wouldn't have let the Holloways take this into their own hands.

You are probably right. We'll just have to wait & see. Maybe things will be resolved today and there willl be no need for them to go. Let's hope & pray. Got to go back to work- will check in later- I'm addicted. :)

None of this really makes sense with what we know to be true already.  We know she was with these 3.  We know they lied about this Holiday Inn story from the beginning (Joran actually going there and showing the exact spot where they dropped her off).  We know they lied about the security guards.  We know now that they have all started pointing fingers at each other as to who was the last one with her until Joran finally (supposedly) admits that he was the last one with her but left her sleeping on the beach.  None of it makes sense and none of the stories even add up.  I still believe at least Joran and Deepak, have my doubts about Satish, are completely involved in this entire mess.  BUT, that is only my opinion and I am certainly not an expert in this case... :lol:

Any confirmation of this (from the comments section on the Greta topic on the front page):

crs Says:

June 21st, 2005 at 11:32 am
On the radio right now, it is said, Croes said that he saw the three boys drop off NH at the Holiday Inn and that is why he came under suspicion.

It is not  a smear compaign!! Again, I would do anything to make him talk, guilty of not. They know what happened, they were with her.

And maybe Greta van Susteren has a Dutch connection too which makes it even more interesting for her!  nonetheless I do not see how she can stick it out in Aruba for long.  Thereis just not that much to it or the case.  She is already flying back and forth.   But hey, Fox is picking up the tab.  Does anybody know if she has her own production crew as opposed to the one that is supporting the heads standing in front the palm trees.  I would say CNN and MSNBC have stronger reporters there (I mean reporters, not the big stars like Greta and Geraldo withtheir own shows).

Yes, let's hope so. Sorry ya'll for getting caught up on the horse thing...it's just that by now I've run out of ways to contribute information...but horses is one think I KNOW.
We're all addicted, no worries.

Ah, but if this "new" version is true, it provides for the possible connection of why Steve Croes (friend to Deepak) has been detained.

aweee.. they just said on Fox the family has started a website about their missing child in Utah..  Findbrennan.org    I am not sure how to spell his name.. I cant see my tv.. its in the other room..and only listening. Dont mean to get off topic.. but IM sure thse parents are out of their minds as NH family and friends. Bless them all.

CNN and MSNBC both have crews and reporters totalling about 10 for each network. Fox has at least double that on the island.

this is interesting.  which radio?  So Croes tells the cops he saw them drop her off at HI after they say they did not go there afterall.  Sweet.

Ditto
There is another old saying "Don't swithch horses in the middle of the stream"
Horses and owners have an unspoken and almost magical relationship with each other.

BTW, Good Morning everyone  :)

Hi all,  :)

Wow you are fast, hard to keep up with you guys :wink:

Hello Hannie..

Too true...but like I said, competent riders should be able to ride any horse. So it's possible that they could be using island horses.

Mornin'!!   :D

cancunmole, thanks for reposting caligirl's theory.

Looking back on it, I realize that Greta likes to follow THE ENTIRE PROSECUTORIAL CYCLE, regardless of declining ratings. She has done it before, and she's like a bulldog.

Their ratings are not declining. There was a post last night that had them versus CNN and MSNBC and its 2:1 viewership.

How do we know that they have changed their story? Not one thing has been published by the Investigative team nor can it be by Dutch Law. The only story changes we know about are rumors and hearsay. [/b]

Whoops. I guess he was in on the original story. Didn't get the memo that it was no longer operational.

Oh of course a competent rider can ride almost any horse, but I would imagine that their horses and owners are trained for situations such as this one. JMHO   :wink:

But you guys have te remember that these Texans are guests on the Island, like any turist and most dutch officials, exept for the governor and his advisors. The search- and rescueteam probably will get some 'informal' help from the Aruban government. But if they break the law by trespassing and harrassing the locals they will be removed from the Island.

/edited for spelling, wich by the way is way better than your dutch!

There is a jugde now on Fox.. saying NH parents probbaly arnt going to be sucessful in filing a lawsuit although she dont blame them for wanting to do so. Also the other men.. the international law experts said it probably wouldnt happen either.. and it woudnt fly here in the US either.. that stinks.. those guys were on earlier. Damn

Hi, I'm new here!   :D  Boy this thread moves fast. Anyway, I agree with you that Fox News ratings are high- I think that the fact Greta stays with a story till it's completed helps her with the ratings. No one likes an incomplete story, at least I don't!

But something is always better than nothing! Ahhhh I don't speak internet. JMHO?

Hello there Lemondrop..

The animals must be accompanied by a U.S. Origin Health Certificate issued by a veterinarian authorized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and endorsed by a Veterinary Services (VS) veterinarian. The certificate shall contain the name and address of the consignor and the consignee, and complete identification of the animals to be exported. Additional certification shall include: CERTIFICATION STATEMENTS1. The United States is free from contagious ovine pleuropneumonia (Mycoplasma mycoides), East coast fever, foot-and-mouth disease, heartwater, louping ill, Nairobi disease, peste des petits ruminants, rinderpest and sheep pox. 2. The animal(s) was (were) born and raised in the United States or were resident for not less than 90 days. 3. In the herd of origin no animal(s) with clinical signs of ovine progressive pneumonia (OPP, Maedi-Visna) or scrapie has (have) been detected during the past 3 years. No goat from a herd of inferior health status was introduced into this (these) herd(s) during this period. 4. The animal(s) is (are) in good health, physically sound and free from clinical signs of infectious disease including freedom from any symptoms of caseous lymphadenitis, ovine progressive pneumonia (OPP, Maedi-Visna), and scrapie. 5. The animal or the animals as a group were isolated under official supervision fromother (groups of) animals, and they remained so for not less than 21 days prior to the date of export. Each animal has been identified with official eartag, breed, sex, and age.6. The animals were treated on , which is within 48 hours prior to shipment, with , a product that provides broad spectrum coverage against internal parasites and is considered to be ovicidal and larvacidal. They were also treated at the same time with _________________________ _____________________, a product approved for use against external parasites. There have been no cases of resistance to these products. 7. The animals have been vaccinated within 6 months prior to exportation against hemorrhagic septicemia, Clostridium septicum, Clostridium chauvoei and leptospirosis with a 5-way vaccine for Leptospira canicola, L. grippotyphosa, L. hardjo, L. pomona, and L. icterohaemorrhagiae.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 2
8. The farms of origin are participants of the National Scrapie Eradication Program. In the farms of origin no case of scrapie has been diagnosed in the last 3 years. The animals are not scrapie-positive nor have they been exposed to scrapie, nor have they ever been in an infected flock, source flock, or trace flock nor are they the progeny, parent, or sibling of any scrapie-positive animal. TEST REQUIREMENTSAll animals must be tested with negative results as prescribed below within 30 days prior to export. The same tests may be repeated in Aruba. All test results to qualify the animals must be included.1. Tuberculosis: Intradermal caudal fold test using PPD tuberculin. 2. Brucellosis: Plate or tube agglutination test at a 1:50 dilution. 3. Bluetongue: One test AGID (Agar-gel immunodiffusion) test or ELISA. Animals that test positive may be further tested by either PCR or virus isolation conducted at the National Veterinary Services Laboratories. A negative PCR or virus isolation test will override a positive ELISA or AGID and animals will be released based on these negative results. 4. OPP/Maedi-Visna: One AGID test. EMBARKATION STATEMENTS At the port of embarkation, a VS port veterinarian shall attach to the Origin Health Certificate and the original laboratory test results, the Certificate of Inspection of Export Animals (VS Form 17-37) showing: 1. The name and address of the consignor. 2. The name and address of the consignee. 3. The number, sex and types of animals to be shipped. 4. A statement that the animals have been given a careful veterinary inspection at the port of embarkation and were found free from evidence of communicable disease, tumors, fresh wounds or wounds in the process of healing, or ectoparasites within 24 hours of exportation. OTHER  INFORMATION

1. In order to import live animals into Aruba, the consignee must have the Health Certificate and/or related test results approved by the Director of the Veterinary Service of Aruba before the animals are shipped to Aruba.
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2. The U.S. Origin Health Certificate is valid for 30 days from the date of issuance although this can be extended to 45 days if the animals have remained healthy and in isolation from other animals and the accredited veterinarian so certifies. 3. No animal, semen, fertilized ova, products, or equipments other than those listed on the import permit may be included in the shipment. 4. The animals must not transit any country under animal health quarantine in route to Aruba. In case of extreme necessity, it is indispensable to have a special permit from the Director of Veterinary Services of Aruba.

thanks for the comment pinto.  i once bird dogged a case like this in argentina.  a local kid came into the embassy to report that an American  friend who was hitching around south america had not arrived in Buenos Aires as scheduled.  I kind of blew him off with the maybe she changed her mind and did not let you know,  He retorted very earnestly that she was not that way.  I took him seriously, ran her picture and a note in the local press, and somebody called the next day to report seeing a morgue shot of her in a newspaper.  she had been abducted, beaten, tied up, and left to drown at the beach.  Father came down and we tried to build a fire under the cops and trace leads but we could not get anybody to focus.  this was in the late '80's  I learned never to blow off a missing person report or let the local copes do it either.

JMHO= Just My Humble Opinion  :wink:

you are quite knowledgeable.. i have a question.. what if the gang of three are on drugs at the time of death..would those be mitigating circumstances?

I've been riding horses for 20yrs and training them for 15....I can't imagine they are taking them....what an adjustment that would be for those animals!!!  Not to say that they aren't though...who knows...

I should probably get a dictionary for these things...sigh. I miss so much cause I dont' speak internet.
But thatnks for clearing it up, anyway!

I hope not!  Taking drugs is entirely voluntary- unless the gang of three was forced under gunpoint to take drugs, I don't consider that a mitigating circumstance...nor do I consider alcohol but then again that's my opinion.   :wink:

Good morning, Monkeys.  Okay, I turned off the TV and computer after watching Greta (and Dash - Great job, hon).  Are there any new develoments/confirmations???  Was there really a suicide attempt?  Another arrest?  Anything at all????

Perhaps someone who's really fast with their fingers can re-post the link to the equine search group.  I read some of their site this morning and it answers many of the questions that have arisen in the last 15 minutes.  Thanks.

Try http://www.netlingo.com/ :c)

Oh, it would be an adjustment-but I read the requirements and both horses and riders have to be trained for this. I'm thinking sane, well trained animals will be fine in that situation. Honestly, it isn't much worse than what some show horses go through once a week during show season. (Not a showing fan...)

lets take the FOX "experts" with a grain of salt and go with what our Monkeys expert Gerben tols us a few pages back.  Victims can become part of the case.  That is the way the Dutch do it.  We also had the attorney in Aruba and Beth tell us that on Fox last night.  Fox is just blowing steam.  Don't they listen to their own reports from the scene, surely not.  Now, as to wheter this gets them inside the facts of case i doubt it but it will, as somebody said last night, give them access to procedural aspects.  Gerben comment?

Morning wench..  A search and resuse team will be arriving in Aruba tonight.. they are from Texas.. 17 searchers and 3 dogs..bringing high tech sonar equipment also. I hard this all this morning on FOX.. and as the day goes.. FOX been updating all day!

1.  New developments/confirmations = NO
2.  Suicide attempt = Nothing confirmed, only reported by one aruban paper
3.  Another arrest - something about arresting someone with the initial "A" unconfirmed.

Nothing really confirmed new that I am aware of but I may have missed something.  :D

i've thought about that rob.  what if (and i believe that they all were) one of the reasons the stories are so muddled and varied is that night they were all under the influence of something, alcohol, drugs, etc. and those 3 don't really remember the sequence of events.  and on top of that, joran may have blocked out exactly what happened?  it is possible for him to do that.  could be another reason why there has been no true confession.

All of these things have more than likely been taken care of at first mention of going there and I am sure all the animals (if any) to arrive have their passports and microchips up to date. If you take a peek at their website you will see they travel quite a bit including to Asia to help in the search and rescue of the Tsunami victims. I have been traveling with my pets to Europe for about 15 yrs. and I do the same. Pretty much the rule of thumb these days. They are only bring dogs this time but the same rules apply.

Thank you, Angie...and bless you for your involvement in the 911 nightmare, btw.

CancunMole, okay, if we go back to the original story and say that none of them have changed their stories from the original (since we don't have proof fact that they have) then they are still proven liars by video of the entrance that night and the other MB students being at the pool.  So we are still back at square one with 3 boys being the last ones seen with her and lying about what they did with her.

Thank you wench.. and what a nightmare..! I guess  I am a caring person..and I wish as we all do there is something we can do for the NH family and friends..  I know they are in all of our prayers!

As always Cancun, I have to agree with you!  :wink:

Hello everyone (((Hugs)))

BTW..only the Deepak have some mastmindedness is in my theory. lol Other than that..no..not my theory.

Peaches--here you go http://www.texasequusearch.org/

i dont know, but these guys just dont look like hardcore drug users too me, i.e. addicts.... i do however think they would drug someone....

http://www.texasequusearch.org

Early on we heard the camera outside was down and only the lobby was up.  I would not put too much stock in the HI camera story.  If there were any.  The sneaky ones probably know where the are.  HI has liability issues in this too.  YOu are right however that the little scene would have been noticed if they dropped at the front door, not so if they dropped her at the front gate.  And we have the story of the guy who say two guys forcing a woman kicking and screaming into a car in front of HI.  We jsut don't know much.

Hi Cali  :D

Speaking of legal experts, has anyone heard if they clarified whether or not prisoners are allowed to speak to each other and if the claims of the jailhouse talk with one of the brothers really happened?

Hi Cali..  :)

Yes it can be, if miss Holloways death was accidental (overdose/fall etc.)

But, like always, it's the severity of the case that determens the demands of punishment that are being made by the DA and maybe the ruling of the court.

See news article case update from Amigoe reposted earlier today.  They say it is not allowed and that they are taking precautions.   Maybe they allowed it earlier so they could monitor it.  Gerben?

I don't think hardcore--but u never know.  I knew people and saw it at clubs in the U.S-using ectasy--they don't look like hardcore drug users--but get them out clubbin-different story.

Another point-my cousin was known to be a straight A student, had a full ride scholarship to a college--got married had two kids...he did go through very rough times in life.  But the result of this--he was murdered--we still don't know who or why--BUT we did find out he was a user and dealer of ectasy--

Can't judge a book by its' cover.....

i'm not talking hardcore, just recreational use.  if they had been drinking, and/or smoking pot, and/or taking ecstasy, that would/could hinder their judgement and recollection of the sequence of events.

And more power to them if they are taking them....what a great organization!

It has been stated (on TV more than once, if one listened) that the only video camera at the HI is at the front desk. There was one story that the outside camera at the HI was broken. Either way, no camera outside to confirm/deny their story. I do not believe that anyone sat in the lobby all night to track who in the MB group was in and not in which has been implied. If you have ever been to the HI, you can't see the driveway from the pool area.

jac, you are right.  i have a now 24 yo nephew who was arrested for trafficking cocaine.  if you looked at him, you would not think him a "druggie", he's nice, clean cut, has manners etc., but he did it for the $$$.   it was an easy way for him to make some money and live a nice lifestyle while in college.


and CM, it has been said that some of the MBHS crew waited until 5:00 a.m. in the lobby for Natalee, and she did not show.

Where'd ya here that?

Here is an observation, that can explain a lot about the handling of this case.

Aruba is a closed society. Residents there don’t need to lock their doors at night, because their neighbors have been neighbors for 3 and 4 generations. To cheat a neighbor, or to steal from a neighbor could result in a tarnish upon a family’s reputation that would be passed on to one’s children, and to one’s children’s children. And so a highly trained police department is not necessary in a closed society. That might explain the lack of expertise in the Aruban police investigation.

But there is also a dark side to such a closed society. Tourists come and go. And, in a closed society, there is a tendency to develop an us-and-them attitude about tourists. Us being the native Arubans, and Them being the American and Venezuelan and Dutch tourists who visit the island. We might expect to see a closing of the ranks, as this case proceeds, and in fact we are already seeing it. Already, there are gushes of sympathy for the poor, beleaguered Paul van der Sloot, and for the “stain upon his family’s reputation.” Already there are gushes of compassion for the poor Joran van der Sloot, following reports that he may have been heard sobbing in his jail cell, or that he might have tried to hang himself. (A cowardly act, if true, that would deny the family of Natalee Holloway any answers into the disappearance of their lovely daughter.)

Of course, there is also professed sympathy for the family of a girl who went missing on the island. But the death or disappearance of a young American tourists is somehow no more important than the “stain upon a family’s honor,” or loss of tourist revenues.

I don’t think that this is unique with Aruba. I think we see the same behavior in the Bahamas, the Virgin Islands, and in other closed societies. In the Virgin Islands, American tourists with no motive and iron-clad alibis were convicted for a crime that had been committed by a native. In Saudi Arabia, American citizens were arrested for a bombing that had been committed by Saudis. And in Aruba two security guards were rounded up, to take the fall for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The only exception in this case was that the two security guards were native Arubans. But they obviously didn’t count, since they were not of the middle class.

What is the bottom line? The bottom line is that a tourist in one of these closed societies needs to be aware that he or she does NOT have full standing as a resident, and will never have the undivided sympathy of the residents, in the event something bad happens. So, why not come to Key West, or to Panama City?

Remember the comment, "We can't just go in there like cowboys!"  I love that all these Texans are going over to do an equine search.  Guess we can go in there like cowboys after all.

Yes, it's not allowed and in The Netherlands commonly not possible, you have to yell trough thick concrete walls to do that. As a rule here: one cell, one suspect. If have never seen a police holding cell in Aruba from the inside so I have to guess here, wich I don't like.

Police strategy is another thing, it can be 'arranged' to get some more 'informal' information. However these (possibly taped) talks are commonly not considered evidence in court, because bragging is not a crime here. In one case I know of police used an 'fake' prisoner (and talked to others) to get some info and confession from someone who was incarcerated in suspicion of causing a massive fireworksdisaster here. His 'confession' to the infomer was trown faster out of court than the DA could say 'Enschede'.

/edited for details

I haven't seen an answer to this.. Maybe someone would be kind enuf to PM me this??


On many blogs, about various subjects) I have noticed the word "TRACKBACK."

When there is a "trackback," the numbers of trackbacks are listed. When I paste the trackback into the address bar, this message appears:
'URL needed'

What is a trackback. What is the purpose of a trackback?

SL

Funny how we here things differently.  What I heard was that some of the students were in the Jaccuzzi until 5:00am that morning...not in the lobby.

I think you have it right re the cameras Cancun mole.  I have been in that hotel too and it is a maze and the entrance is set back from the road.  There may also be car access from the side.  If any of these guys had already taken liberties with Natalee in an impaired state as reported initially, they might drop her where least likely to be observed.  From there it is anybody's guess.  

If somebody wants to monitor the 95.1 radio report for the day, it is on now.  just started.

i can't verify at this moment, but i think i read it on the TA post that was posted by someone's mother?  dash's maybe?  i don't remember.  i've read so much, and i do specifically remember reading that information on a post somewhere by someone's parent.  i do apologize for being so vague, but i just don't remember where i read it.  is that a false report?  i humbly apologize if it is.

lesson learned......

I didn't hear that--but the interview with the girl and guy from MB said a whole bunch of them sat around the pool until 5am--not in the lobby.

(Excerpt)

Where did you hear this story???

Actually they are just gonna see how cowboys do it now.

alot of arubas residents go on setarnet thru cell phones/calling cards also.
my friend finds both expensive ...sometimes she spends $30/40 a day chatting/etc... the internet cafe is good for long time usage i guess.

Well, I am happy to hear that the investigation is actually composed of a "team" comprised of Aruban, Dutch and FBI....all working together and getting along well. (per Trapenberg) This is a much better picture than what was originally thought.

I agree.. I am listening to that now as well Kerin!

I was just curious because I haven't heard that from any of my friends. THere were a lot of people at the pool, but they weren't waiting on her, or anything.

Internet cafes are very common outside the US, and not particularly sinister, most people do not have computers in their homes. They are usually full of kids chatting, doing homework or downloading music. Also they are used by a lot of tourists, as well.

FOUND IT!!!!  THIS IS WHERE I GOT THE 5:00 A.M. IN THE LOBBY

http://www.bwcitypaper.com/  look under the title "Naked Birmingham".  Here is the reprinted article:

 

Publishers Notebook  
 

 


 
 
 
By Chuck Geiss write the author
 
June 16, 2005

Our plane touched down Friday evening, June 10, on the island of Aruba. As we approached the hotel where Natalee Holloway had stayed during her five-day vacation, yellow and white ribbons were evident everywhere. On June 5 the island had exhausted its supply of yellow ribbons, so white ribbons joined yellow ones on lampposts, street signs, and flagpoles. They were visible reminders of a tragic story that many island locals hoped would disappear.


 Naked Birmingham
 
 Recent
 
 
 
 

 
   
 
 
 
Since the day after she vanished, a group of closely knit friends had gathered with Natalee Holloway's family in Aruba. Initially, they came to provide emotional support, but soon found themselves acting as the lead detectives in an investigation to find the 18-year-old girl. Within hours of arriving on the island, they were troubled to learn that island police were tentative about beginning any investigation, since missing-person cases require a 24-hour waiting period. Police assured the family that Natalee would show up soon, exclaiming, "Things like this happen all the time, people love the island so much, and they just don't want to go home."

Friends of the family immediately took matters into their own hands; within hours they learned the identity of the three men last seen with Natalee at a local nightclub during the early hours of Monday, May 30. They conducted informal interviews at the home of 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot who, in the company of police officials, readily admitted to having been with Natalee on the previous evening before dropping her off at her hotel at 2:30 a.m. Later, it was learned that surveillance tapes from the hotel revealed no such activity. Moreover, friends who waited for Natalee in the lobby until 5 a.m. said she never even arrived at the hotel. Believing that Van Der Sloot was lying, the family and their friends pegged him as the leading suspect a mere 12 hours after Natalee's disappearance.

As flyers were posted around the island, the search for Natalee began in earnest. Efforts concentrated around the hotel and at the lighthouse on the north end of the island, where Van Der Sloot, 18-year old Satish Kalpoe, and his brother, 21-year old Deepak, said they had taken Natalee after leaving a local downtown nightclub. As an avalanche of leads and anonymous tips flowed in, friends of the family mobilized into an investigative task force armed with cell phones, two-way radios, and a fleet of rental cars. Psychics, prevalent on the island, began demanding the attention of the family. Each told family associates that "she is in a dark place, and near water." One claimed that Natalee's soul was sitting next to her. "Ask her what the name of her dog is," a family associate asked. "She is crying," she told him, "she is too upset to talk." During that early period of the family's investigation, attempts to get the police involved were unsuccessful. According to a friend of the family, the Police Commissioner actually suggested that they go to Carlos & Charlie's (the bar Natalee disappeared from) on Wednesday night. "It is Ladies Night," he said, "and I am sure she will be there."

As the search became more desperate and the tips became more bizarre, missions into the island's darkest barrios, including the red-light district and assorted crack houses, were orchestrated. The editor of the island newspaper informed the family that a group of drug dealers were holding Natalee for a $10,000 ransom (an odd amount considering that the posted reward was in excess of $50,000). A late-night rendezvous between the drug dealers and family friends was arranged, and after a wild series of events an American girl was rescued by the police, who called to report that "they are 98-percent sure they have Natalee." The family raced to the police station only to discover that the female in custody had dark hair, brown eyes, weighed about 130 pounds, and looked to be about 45 years old. Natalee had blonde hair, blue eyes, weighed 110 pounds, and was 18 years old. That was the first of many letdowns and false leads.

On Day 5, police arrested two security guards, leaving the family perplexed as to why the investigation had not yet led to the persons last seen with Natalee: Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. From all accounts, the three have bad reputations. Joran Van Der Sloot is a son of privilege; his father has been appointed to a judgeship on the island and rumors swirled that he was using his influence to impede the investigation. There were varying descriptions of Joran, ranging from model student athlete to casino playboy (he met Natalee in a casino). He is tall, handsome, and looks older than his age. His friends, Satish and Deepak, also sons of wealth and privilege, were described to me by a local islander "as bad men who mistreat women." One scenario has the trio involved in a seedy scam that involves meeting attractive female tourists, learning the date of their departure, and taking advantage of them on their final night in town.

The family was informed, however, that paying $1,000 to a certain official might make him work harder to find Natalee. Friends of the family concluded about that official that "no sum of money could make him smart enough to help us." Finally, a team of FBI agents arrived in Aruba. Island police arrested the three boys last seen with Natalee, but offered no information about their investigation. Despite their frustration, the family maintained a positive spin for the media, saying "they are pleased with the process." Behind the scenes, that was hardly the case.

The lobby of the Aruba Holiday Inn was a peculiar mix of scantily clad, well-sunscreened hotel guests, members of the media, and people engaged in the search for Holloway. Those involved in the search had established a war room in the hotel, but most of them hung out in the lobby in between search activities because the war room was too depressing. Eleven days after Natalee's disappearance, the flow of tips and leads had abated, mainly because family friends had become adept at screening them. Efforts were concentrated on getting scuba divers in the water, defining specific locations for organized searches, and staying visible to police and government officials. Natalee's mother, Beth, spent her days visiting schools and churches, speaking with children and handing out wrist bracelets made by friends in Birmingham.

"The only thing we have going for us is maintaining a high profile and letting these people know that we aren't leaving without Natalee," said one family friend, "otherwise it's just another missing girl." Indeed, it was clear that virtually everyone on the island wanted the family and friends to go home because they were jeopardizing the tourist economy, hindering the local drug trade, and drawing intense media scrutiny to local police and government officials who have no experience managing this kind of case.

Late Friday evening, June 10, rumors circulated that police had taken members of the family to the lighthouse to identify a body. On television, CNN reported that Natalee was dead, and both CNN and Fox News were reporting a confession "that something bad has happened to Natalee." Both stories were without merit. The next morning, CNN was still reporting that Natalee was dead, but Fox had retracted its story about a confession. At 10 a.m., Vivian Van Der Biezen, spokesperson for the Attorney General, held a press conference at the hotel to report "they are at a very critical point in the investigation and they will neither confirm nor deny information being reported from other sources." This was typical of the information being provided to the family, in that it had absolutely no substance.

On Saturday night, Geraldo Rivera conducted a live interview with Beth Holloway Twitty [Natalee's mother], George Twitty [her step-father], and Prime Minister Nelson Oduber. The interview went smoothly until the Prime Minister revealed a fact undisclosed to the Holloways—that the police found blood in one of the cars impounded during the investigation (a lab test later proved this to be false). Twitty took the opportunity to criticize Oduber. "This is typical of what we're going through. They have information that we know nothing about and this is the first time we're hearing it. You hear it before we do." Off camera, Oduber was having a total meltdown.

By Sunday morning, June 12, Natalee's parents were modifying their media strategy. Worried early on that any criticism of the investigation would jeopardize their relationship with the police department, they ultimately concluded that things couldn't get much worse. After 14 days with no answers, it seemed that the media was their only hope of getting any results. Government officials continued to defend the investigation's credibility to the media.

Two weeks after Natalee Holloway was reported missing, I left the island. Understandably, her family won't leave without her, and by now police and government officials on the island are keenly aware of that fact. My lasting impression of Aruba is the license tag on the rear of the car that brought me to the airport. The slogan at the top of the plate read "One Happy Island." &

i also have a question.. does anyone remember some incidences outside of the hyatt? possibliy involving renovation workers at the allegro? this was before natalee went missing, maybe like in the one -two week period before.....

If this is what you are referring to:



Why was nothing said about being in the lobby before 6/19. Sorry, but as I said, you can't see the driveway from the pool and actually, I don't think you can see the lobby from the pool, so why would they have used the pool as the story.

Also, per O'Reilly, it is not the FBI who has told anyone from MB to keep quiet.

 

GREAT POST PROFESSOR.  ONE THING THOUGH, ONE OF THE GUARDS WAS A FOREIGNER TOO.

yeah i didnt hear anything about them waiting for her, because dash said that they didnt assume that anything was wrong or what not..even when she didnt show up for check in for plane, they thought she just slept in..it wasnt until they couldnt find her that morning that they went looking for her

Hey Kerin.. whadem up homie? lmao

Sorry, I had to loft.. can you believe I actually had to do some work? *sigh* How dare they expect me to work! lol :lol:

Your post actually reminds me of small southern towns in my neck of the woods.  We just moved from a town with population of 660.  We never locked our doors (wasn't sure where the key actually was), left the keys in the car and yes even our personal belongings in our vehical at times.  There was never a need to worry because of so little crime.  There was one police officer who only worked part time because of the little crime.  When there was a crime, they would usually bring in the county cops because our man was so inexperienced.  Folks have been in this community for a long time and no matter what they do, everyone has a long standing reputation that is upheld.  Everyone is sympathetic to their neighbors but weary of outsiders---outsiders being those who were not born and raised in the community.  People come and go, due to the agricultural nature  of the town and there is a feeling of us and them.  If an outsider, one who has not been in town for generations, is guilty of something--there is the same mindset that "they are not from around here,"  which hopefully helps clean the stain left on the town.  My point is that many of us should be able to relate to your post.  It is of a small town mentality, in my opinion.  Many of us have seen it for ourselves.

Where'd ya here that?[/quote]

I saw this a few times last week as well...and can't remember where it was written.

Texas EquuSearch isn't taking any horses--just the side-scan sonar and 3 cadaver dogs, plus 17 people.  They plan to leave tonight to go to Aruba and stay 5 days.

Was their anyone else in NH room that noticed she wasnt in bed when they woke up?

["Was their anyone else in NH room that noticed she wasnt in bed when they woke up?[/quote]

This is a GREAT question - have not seen it before.  Weren't there 3 or 4 girls in that room?

Couldn't agree more! I married into a small town/rural situation. Been here almost 20 years - myown mother-in-law still thinks of me as an outsider :roll:

{{{Cali}}}} Workin? I am just chillaxin with my homies at the crib.

angie, you are assumming that her roommates went to their room and went to bed.  they could've been at the pool until the wee hours and then when they got to the room and she was not there, they could've assummed that she was in someone else's room.  perhaps they had the key?  you know hotels usually only issue two keys per room - if it were me and i had the key and knew that my roommate that went off did not have the key, she would either find me, or sleep in another friend's room.

It was reported that a camera at the Hyatt had picked up a young woman walking along the beach. FYI. The Hyatt and the Allegro are separated by a street-like thoroughfare.

Now we know. :)

This is a GREAT question - have not seen it before.  Weren't there 3 or 4 girls in that room?[/quote]

This has already been discussed.  It has been reported that there was a lot of room switching and not all the kids went to bed.  Some stayed by the pool all night and some in other rooms.  Nat's roomies didn't think anything of it.  They figured she was in someone else's room.

I am listening to Top 95 Aruba radio right now (streaming).

The problem is that it is not in English. They are continually commenting on the case but I can't understand.

Is there anyone  that is listening also that can translate please????

This is a GREAT question - have not seen it before.  Weren't there 3 or 4 girls in that room?[/quote]
 I was on a trip my senior year to Florida.. Disney World.. we had 4 girls to a room.. boys stayed on the floor below..Not that it didnt keep us from mingling.. we snuck and did things.. but a roomate surely would have noticed if one of us wernt in bed in the morning.. Im not being rude.. I was curious about this??????

This is a GREAT question - have not seen it before.  Weren't there 3 or 4 girls in that room?[/quote]

PM, i believe it was either dash or mbhs that said she had 2 other roommates.  there were a total of 3 girls in that room.

Same here, 18 years, raised my son there.  He's ok, I was still just a visitor.  I believe this was a big reason the Twitty's weren't taken seriously when they got to Aruba.  Natalee's uncle said they couldn't get anything done until they got the media involved.

This has already been discussed.  It has been reported that there was a lot of room switching and not all the kids went to bed.  Some stayed by the pool all night and some in other rooms.  Nat's roomies didn't think anything of it.  They figured she was in someone else's room.[/quote]

Thanks Wench. thats eassly understandable..as room switching went on on my senior trip. I didnt mean to ask about it again if it were mentioned previously!!!

It will not be hard to tell if they are "hard core users."  After the amount of time they have spent in jail now, I would assume that withdrawal symptoms would begin to show.

Have we ever heard (facts) if there were actually GPS systems put on any of the cars confiscated in this case? I thought I saw mention of it but it doesn't add up to me.

Also, I believe the Croes fellow may be there for the reward money. He may have allowed Joran to use the smaller boat owned by the party boat company to take care of the body. He may not have helped in anyother way and may be held for his own protection and for his testimony. He is not charged with any crime thus far. So yes, the reward may have brougth out a witness.

This makes sense, because I could not figure out how he was involved, (2) of them are much younger than him.  I also believe the two brother's got caught up in Joran lies, when they backed him up by saying that they all (3) of them dropped her off at The Holiday Inn, I don't think they realized what had happenned to Natalee at that time. I do believe that he brought her out to the ocean, on one of the smaller boats, on the side where the currents are so strong that anything dropped into the water is swept away by the strong currents, knowing that no one would ever find her. Don't forget he would know the island very well, and he would know that the other side of the island if anything was put into the water the current would wash it back to shore. That is what happens when you sometimes not all the time let a 17 year old act like a man when really he is still a youngster, and needs guidance. From what I have read, I do believe that his parents gave him too much freedom.
Why was he still out at a club at that hour on a school night?
They gave him his own apartment adjoined to their house with his own private entrance, therefore could he come and go as he pleased?
It was clearly stated and with pictures photographed with his father at the casino, with a drink in his hand - legal age for both is 18.
J.M.OP.

-IF THEY WERE WAITING FOR HER AND SHE DID NOT SHOW, WHAT DID THEY DO ABOUT IT?  SOMEBODY SAID IT WAS NORMAL THAT SHE DID NOT SLEEP IN HER ROOM AND THAT ROOMIES JUST THOUGHT SHE WAS SLEEPING IN ANOTHER ROOM, WHILE OTHERS WERE WAITING FOR HER IN THE LOBBY?  

-ARUBA RADIO IS ON A JAG AGAINST THE "ARROGANCE" OF THE TWITTYS AGAIN.  SAY MR. TWITTY SHOULD BE QUESTIONED BY COPS FOR HIS HOSTILE ATTITUDE.  REPORTING THAT NATALEE SIGNED IN HER AOL EMAIL ACCT ON 7 JUNE.  THE TWITTYS HAVE STIRRED THE HIVE...  WILL IT CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION OF THE CASE?   I WISH YOU WOULD ALL LISTEN TO THIS DAILY RADIO BROADCAST.

Does anyone out there listen  to Top 95 Aruba radio right now (streaming).

The problem is that it is not in English. They are continually commenting on the case but I can't understand.

Is there anyone that is listening also that can translate please????

Yes, lots of room switching and entire groups that stayed up all night since it was the final night.  Everyone thought she was just with another group.

I just heard on FOX that Greta will be on LIVE tonight at 10:00 pm eastern time if anyone is interested.

Thanks Wench. thats eassly understandable..as room switching went on on my senior trip. I didnt mean to ask about it again if it were mentioned previously!!![/quote]

What's wrong with you, Angie?  Can't you be here 24/7????  LOL.  Don't worry, I can barely keep up here myself.  I'm sure I've asked questions that have already been answered many times.  

just stopped in to see what condition your condition is in

Yelp and I believe it will get much worse the longer this case continues-- We want Natalee back

Billsfan....i'm a Bills fan TOO!!!  you from Bflo?

They are saying Natalee signed into her AOL email account on June 7th?  I wonder if it was a family member who did this?

BUT WILL IT BE PRODUCTIVE?

which one is foriegn
 iquitos if you know?

ALl i heard wsa that everyone was assuming that she was with another group, in another room etc..and didnt think anything of it..when she was not there in the morning! SInce everyone was up late that night still hangin out, they didnt think anything of it

What? Where did this come from? Does anyone know about this?

(im sorry my electricity went out so i didnt hear the whole thing but here....) yes they are just saying that this case has taken a weird turn,a lso that if its true taht Joran has taken the Lie detector and that there wanting to interrogate Jug Twitty becuase he has had some "weird" actions towards police/fbi(not sure which exactly) but that it is something that is wanted by them to be done......they are confirming that Joran DID take  a lie detector test...mayeb it acn not be used in court....but it can help to lead in a case...also they are askign why cant the parents of NH take the test also?? you know just to be ont he safe side...possibly 7-june that NH had gone online to check her meial..not sure if it was her but her meail was opene on June-7.....with arubas help we can possibly take this to an end and not drag any longer on this story...maybe authorities keep pressing these guys...but nmaybe they dont have anythign to say because we dont know if they are guilty of anything...and if they are we need to get them to confess already and finish this if they dont know anythign then lets go on w/ the case and finish everything already

YEP, SAID IT TWICE.

Do you think a 17 year old, under the influence of alcohol (presumably) would do this alone??  This is where I always have to picture an adult advising him....

What's wrong with you, Angie?  Can't you be here 24/7????  LOL.  Don't worry, I can barely keep up here myself.  I'm sure I've asked questions that have already been answered many times.  [/quote]

LMAO Wench.. cant be here 24/7.. ha ha  Have a teenage son myself who is 15.. and actually have to leave in an hour or so to take him to his first day of work! Im only here alot today because my housework and laundry is caught up and we are having left overs for dinner..lol  :lol:

i always wonder if the hyatt actually caught something on tape....im aware of the set up of the hyatt and allegro...

iquitos, do you think that  could be the FBI or aruban officials checking her email account?  

also, just curious, what does your name mean? (if it has meaning).

I have my grown kids aol passwords.  

If she uses her parents acounts, they probably have her password also.  Checking e-mail could mean something or nothing.

The only thing I remember hearing is what Dash said last night about the 8 AM check that morning. Can anyone remember an earlier notification that NH was missing?

Not from Buffalo.
Just New Jersey.

dad was a Jets fan

I grew up loving OJ (Bills)
Ironic huh!

Can anybody translate the gossip on Aruba Top95???
Please!!!

The AOL login is probably a rumor but, if not, yes...it could be the family. Or it could also be the family contacted AOL and requested a "look" at her account. 21 days and little to no news...Holloways probably said "the approach we have taken so far hasn't worked..let's go to Plan B". They still have done nothing to break the law.

i think the "DJ" had the boat.  remember the post a loooooooooong time ago about the 2.5 mile boat ride?

I THINK MICKEY IS THE ONE FROM ONE OF THE ENGLISH ISLANDS.  THAT IS WHY HIS ENGLISH IS SO GOOD AND HE TALKS WITH THAT ISLAND LILT.  

Thanks to AmericaninAruba

YES!  very ironic!!  considering the whole AFC East rivalry and all...bet that made for a FUN Sunday around your house.

-ARUBA RADIO IS ON A JAG AGAINST THE "ARROGANCE" OF THE TWITTYS AGAIN.  SAY MR. TWITTY SHOULD BE QUESTIONED BY COPS FOR HIS HOSTILE ATTITUDE.  REPORTING THAT NATALEE SIGNED IN HER AOL EMAIL ACCT ON 7 JUNE.  THE TWITTYS HAVE STIRRED THE HIVE...  WILL IT CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION OF THE CASE?   I WISH YOU WOULD ALL LISTEN TO THIS DAILY RADIO BROADCAST.[/quote]

Yelp and I believe it will get much worse the longer this case continues-- We want Natalee back[/quote]

BUT WILL IT BE PRODUCTIVE?[/quote]


Yes, I believe so. It keeps the American public involved, also it keeps the Aruban government on their toes.

Ok we got it ..sometimes, if the posts go real fast, it moves to the next page and people may have not been able to read that post that you stated..so that is the reason people may ask after you had posted it...kinda hard at times to keep up with the posts!

REPORTING THAT NATALEE SIGNED IN HER AOL EMAIL ACCT ON 7 JUNE.  

not to question your integrity, but i have nt heard that... that s new...

guy u r a funny one
i bet you did weell
in highschool..
ican only speak for myself,
but i missed you!

Delete[/quote]

IQUITOS IS IN PERU

Making the Arubans angry isn't going to help with that!

I have to say I am appalled by some of the comments made about Aruba on the internet. I know it has been said a million times, but LE is not allowed, by law, to discuss the case publically and anything said may damage the case. People screaming about stonewalling or incompetence are completely off base. Just the fact that they have four suspects being held leads one to believe that the case is progressing.

[quote[/url]

No it will just inflame the American's more and the people from Aruba

-ARUBA RADIO IS ON A JAG AGAINST THE "ARROGANCE" OF THE TWITTYS AGAIN.  SAY MR. TWITTY SHOULD BE QUESTIONED BY COPS FOR HIS HOSTILE ATTITUDE.  REPORTING THAT NATALEE SIGNED IN HER AOL EMAIL ACCT ON 7 JUNE.  THE TWITTYS HAVE STIRRED THE HIVE...  WILL IT CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION OF THE CASE?   I WISH YOU WOULD ALL LISTEN TO THIS DAILY RADIO BROADCAST.[/quote]

Yelp and I believe it will get much worse the longer this case continues-- We want Natalee back[/quote]

BUT WILL IT BE PRODUCTIVE?[/quote]



It got us to this point!!!  I believe it to be.

I think the Arubians are misinterpreting Mr. Twitty's "arrogance."  He is totally frustrated by the lack of information, hence the hiring of an attorney to help them get info.

So FOM...even if there WAS a full moon, without your glasses you wouldn't know? (I believe full moon is tomorrow...have to check)

I signed into my daughters aol account a few minutes ago, does that prove that my daughter was on aol at that moment?

Unless you say that "she signed in on HER personal computer, that no other person has access to".. well, I don't think the above is proof of anything.

WHAT POINT?  I THOUGHT THE INVESTIGATION WAS GOING NOWHERE.

   If it's a rumor, why would they repeat it? It doesn't enhance their credibility as a news source. If it's not a rumor, what's their source for the information?

LMAO Wench.. cant be here 24/7.. ha ha  Have a teenage son myself who is 15.. and actually have to leave in an hour or so to take him to his first day of work! Im only here alot today because my housework and laundry is caught up and we are having left overs for dinner..lol  :lol:[/quote]

LOL, Angie.  My kids are 14 and 17 and my bf has been out of town for weeks and just got home.  That's why I wasn't allowed to watch the news all weekend...lol.  I have definately neglected work, housework and kids because of this, but I just can't help myself.  I don't watch regular tv anymore, just news and I haven't chatted with friends are done anything on the computer that wasn't related to NH.  I just wish I could do SOMETHING to help.

no shit...
ps iquitos my pap is getting good but not good enough to count on it officially....