Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

A new thread for news and discussions. NEW name for thread.. RBN #...

Please try to stay on topic.  If you feel the need to "chit chat" please feel free to use our new "CHIT CHAT" topic while you wait for news.

PLEASE visit the link below with Tom and Red's WEBLOG for summaries of the information gathered here.

www.scaredmonkeys.com
Please be sure to read the TROLLS announcement. Thank you.

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A gentle reminder, that at times we get heated and angry over something we read. Perhaps something someone else says. When you feel yourself typing out things you would "never say to a person if they were standing in front of you", well.. that is the time to step away.

Get a coffee, watch some TV, hug your hubby/wife, take a walk, take a shower.... take a break. Go watch the sunset.

This is a highly emotional issue that has dragged on for weeks (and might go for weeks more).

Remember, we are all real people with real feelings. Sometimes, when we type out "words" they aren't taken in the same context that we meant them.

Give others the same latitude you would like them to give you. Don't assume the worst, look for how that person could have meant something other than the worst.

Life's too short. We are not lost... our loved ones know where we are.

Be thankful.

For anyone wanting to make donations to support the Hollway family in their quest to find Natalee......

Contributions may be made at any AmSouth Bank or by mail to Natalee Holloway Trust, AmSouth Bank, P.O. Box 11426, Birmingham, AL 35202. Specify on the check that the donation is for the search effort.

New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base

That is likely the best review of that E-mail I have seen.... ALL GREAT POINTS.....

I would agree...I think that e-mail is a hoax. I was discussing it last night it was copied and pasted with no header information or IP addresses and no way to even verify if it came from Aruba.

Good points. Some Hindu's do name God, as do all Muslims.
Still I think the e-mail is bogus.
However I do find some of the references to his family's distress troubling. His father's high-blood pressure, mother crying all the time, his older bother trying to reassure him -  it has a ring of truth.
Very disturbing. :?

from hasibokos this am - largely a recap of what's been discussed -

Beth Holloway meets with the van der Sloots: Hasibokso.com has learned that the mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth Holloway, met with Paulus and Anita van der Sloot on Tuesday.  According to Novum (Dutch press), Beth Holloway did not go into details afterwards, she only described the meeting with Jorans parents as “positive”.

UPDATE 32:The Dutch media is also reporting that 17 (volunteering) search experts from Texas EquuSearch will arrive in Aruba on Wednesday to search for Natalee Holloway. According to the newsreports, the experts are coming with dogs, scuba gear and sonar instruments. One of the volunteers, Joe Houston, said that the fact that they are going to search for Natalee does not mean that the search efforts until now have been conducted poorly. According to Houston, they have a lot of experience with searching for persons who are dead or alive. In this case the volunteers will try to find Natalee to bring the family some peace. Depending on the donations, the volunteers will remain at least one week in Aruba. The Aruban government doesn’t have any problems with the volunteers that, according to spokesperson Ruben Trapenburg, will be treated as tourist. Trapenburg declared that the specialized equipment that the volunteers are bringing is definitely welcome. Mariaine Croes from the Public Prosecutioin indicated that the volunteers will play, just as the FBI, only an advisory role. The head of the investigation will remain in the hands of the Aruban police who have to present anytime some (potential) evidence is found. Otherwise these will not be permissible in court.

Yes!
I went to sleeep thinking of this.
And I had seen on one of the brothers ticklesites, I think, as religion was Hindu...
And thats a good point on the spelling of the name.

Good morning everyone! Anything new happening over night? The search team arrives today right? Anyone know if they immediately begin their search today or will it be tomorrow? Just wondering....

Good morning momto5. According to CNN the search team was delayed due to problems with chartering a plane and restrictions on bringing the search dogs in. Arrival now expected on Friday

momto5 - they plan to meet with aruban authorities to go over what's been done, etc.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/21/aruba.holloway/index.html?section=cnn_latest

this article from cnn this am explains about the search, the legal brief filed by natalee's family and about certain experts brought in to observe the interrogations.

edited to make link clickable - hope i don't blow the margins.

Ok thanks for the update much appreciated!!
Been trying to keep up here, but its hard with so many posts on the board. I think Im doing alright tho.

tkubi7 - i'm confused. is CNN reporting that and have not yet updated their site?

thx

Fox News is going to have someone in Aruba of the search team from Texas on in just minutes. Guess CNN was wrong about their postponing til Friday!

thx anothermonkey for clarifying that because as you can see, the story above says they were to arrive last night!

Thank you. I thought I heard on fox they were taking the red eye. I guess they did after all. Hope they can find her!!

mojo, here's the link if I did it right.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/22/aruba.holloway/

Did wonderwoman post the rest of the email lastnight?
When I left lastnight she only posted half.
Please let me know I don't want to wade through 300 posts to find it

Huh?  Greta said she took Beth to the VDS home  :?:

Yes, RL, she did.  

::edit:   AMiller has provided a link on page 2, post #3)   edit::

okay perhaps equusearch have the team in charge of liason with local authorities to plan how things will work and where they should look etc and the rest of the 17 man team, dogs, equipment will arrive on friday and hit the ground running?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/aruba_missing_teen
;_ylt=At6AWzhkL2mYK9jM1yCgNl_a_JYv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

this url is so long it blows the margins - here's the relevant part of the article - Texas Group to Look for Ala. Teen in Aruba

paras 7 and 8

Upon arrival, the team planned to meet with Aruban authorities and
FBI officials to review past search routes and plot new areas, Huston said.

Aruban authorities accompanied by FBI observers have scoured the island on foot, in vehicles and using a helicopter with infrared equipment at night. Tourists and Aruban civilian volunteers also have helped, but none has turned up any trace of Holloway.

I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?

I think this link should take you there.  I found it for someone else last night. :)   BTW, those were good points about the spelling and religion...

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=680

yeah she was passing out prayer cards and she happened on this house while Greta was filming and it happened to be the van der sloot residence.  what perfidy

Yesterday, it was "by chance" Greta and Beth went to the VDS home, it wasn't planned, it wasn't pre-arranged so "by chance" is a fair wording.

I'm sure they have had plenty of folks, media etc standing at their home and shouting for attention.
But when Beth identified herself, Mr VDS was quick to come over and immediately asked them to come in, Beth and Greta didn't have to ask, he opened the gate and invited them in. They were just asking to give him a prayer card.
Understandably he asked for no cameras etc...given the situation I would to.
While I would love to have heard the details, even seen the conversation  I understand why this should be private.  Sometimes I forget this isn't a Law&Order episode, real people, real emotions and a real case that can't be jeopardize by sharing every detail and conversation...But to be a fly on the walls! :)

Thanks but I couldn't wait and just went looking though 20 pages. I didn't think anbody would get back to me that quick :lol:
About the email, whether it's real or not. I'm starting to believe that these boys had nothing to do with this.

Yes she did. I think its on page 36 or 37 on the last thread. Its in that general vicinity.

here is the entire text of the purported email posted by wonder woman last night  its procedence and authenticity are unkown  there is one more follow up piece posted in the previous board

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:34 pm    Post subject:   
dated 6/5/2005


How are you i hope you and your family is fine.(NAME DELETED) is better i tell you the truth , before it will be a shock for you later, but i think it will be a shock for you rightnow.
The missing girl natalee hollaway,I spoke to her , sunday she left with me , my brother and a friend from carlos n' charlies , it was my car like the news said she got in to, I am one of the persons of intrest , i am one the the students they've questioned and released as they claimed in the news .
Let see where to start i don't even know where to begin these last days where so crazy for me i'm very tired haven't slept good in days : The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school tomorrow i don't think so . well she begged him and he still said yes i'll be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to carlos (we all went out without or parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance with her my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he responded(by then natalee was VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car , and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away, so then we were just talking etc, in the car and then she said she wanted to see sharks ,it was by the lighthouse she saw them before that can we go , my friend said ok ,deepak lets go. so on my my to the lighthouse there was music playing and noone talking for a while when i looked in the backmirror my friend and natalee were kissing and touching (his hands etc was in her blouse but nothing nude or against natalees will ) so my brother siad just leave them for a while untill we get to the lighthouse, when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights) so after like 10 min my friend is telling me that natalee fell asleep i said you kidding just wake her up and tell ask her if its holiday inn for sure she is staying so my friend woke her up and confirmed with natalee she was staying at the holiday inn, so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no. she he stepped in the car and while i was driving away i saw natalee walking towards the lobby and a gentleman with a walkie talkie and black clothes approached her and i think they were talking and i had never seen natalee again sinds.(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby) it was around 2.15 am .monday i came to work normally 4- 11 pm after work i called my friend i said whats up he said ok i'm at the raddison casino meet me there , i said ok so i went there we played poker , we had some drinks and chat and then we had enough and decided that this casino was booring lets go to whyndham hotel casino . so i drove to whyndham and as i was parking my friends dad called him and said the police is at his home with some family members its about the girl you guys went out with yesterday , so my friend said wait there i be there, so we rushed at my friends home and there was the police and nataless family and it was a nightmare sinds then. the police asked us if we knew this girl showed us a picture we said yes thats her , they said she was missing and eyewitness say she was the last seen with you guys . so they asked a few more questions and we said we don't understand we left her at holiday inn lobby drive way how could she dissapear and then natalees stepfather jumped and said ''yes thats because after she went with you assholes she lost'' and then my friends father jumped and said thats enough you can't talk to the kids like that this is not the us your out of you juristiction this is not the way i want you people out of my yard i know the law (my friends father is e judge) so afterwards another family member of natalee suggested to the police if we can id the security gard we said ok. we went there there was no suck security working there as we discribed. so then we were just standing in the lobby there were questions etc. asked by other members , and then me and my friend walked to the car natalees mom was sitting and we said mam you have to believe us we did not do anything with you daughter, she was crying and said i don't believe you 2 , i promise you i will make you life a living hell because of this . anwyas we said we were sorry again ans that we will help in any way possible.i went home 7 pm tuesday, i was then called 2 pm by the police for questioning i went gave a statement they said i was a witness no suspect the same went for my brother and my friend they were questionded and had to sign their statement also , the checked my car and i was clear to go , wednesday i was called again to show them how i drove the route that day ( i could refuse was my right i still decided to go , as did my brother and friend ) the drove us one by one and then we were free to go again.thursday morning my friend called me (he goes to aruba international school and his mother is a teacher there and he is a straight A student ) in panic and said there a re family members here at school and they are sharing flyers and the flyers said : GIRL KIDNAPPED ASK JORAN VANDER SLOOT (thats my friends name ) the principle asked them to leave and they did .so thats my part of the story yesterday and today it was quiet no treathen phoncalls what we got before and i won't mention the crazythings the newspapers etc. writes about us its to much to mention. at home my mom is losing it she is cryimg constantly , my dad bloodpressure got high also his hands are red , my friends home is a disaster also ,his mom is crying constantly also his dad is pretty cool he calmes us down and talks to us also not to worry , my brother is preety cool but on his face you see he is worried , my friend is pretty worried also. i'm pretty worried also , we have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go to the states in july he has a full scholarship. i had to go to vacation also end of this month.many politicians find we should be locked up rightnow.We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead , she was seen with 2 guys , her hair is cut and is red now ,she was in a crackhouse etc, we were arrested and , my car is by the police we confessed to murder and rape, she went in a restaurant to buy food but none of those were true.So (name deleted) that was my part of the story what i said here is the same in my statement,people are saying they are bad guys lock them up , the family is going thru a lot righnow , but what they don't know how the other families feel and how they also have a reputation and carreers etc. because when this all is over they will still be talks that were the 3 guys that had something to do with the kidnap of natalee its a small island.they don't understand the pressure we are having also, if this girl turns up dead we have a problem we were the last seen with her . I lost a lot of friends who think we had to do something with this, many of my friends supported us also brought food etc. for us at home and know we are innocent, we are innocent also we promise i would NEVER hurt anyone in anyway, i would do every everything to help find her thats what we told eveyone also , i would take a bullet to save her and bring her back to her family if i had to so would my friend also.i would never never hurt anyone i'm a very happy and social person who likes to make friends with people and not hurting them


So (NAME DELETED) i will say goodbye now hope you believe me and i pray to god that they find natalee soon and find her well so that this nightmare ends for all of us and they we prove we had nothing to do with this, i hope you pray for all of us say hi to everyone there hope to hear from you soon and may god bless.........

bye bye

Deepak.

Last edited by WonderWoman on Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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"PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY"

While trying to reconcile some things I remembered the concept of plausible deniability. This is used by politicians (daily) and athletes (when asked about steroid use). I still think this was a structured event. The dutchguy and the brothers have a bunch of it. Maybe this concept can be used to help you if you get stuck.

I don't think that it would be that difficult for any person who followed this case to create a letter...and add his/her own "details."  Being that there are so many untrue emails that get forwarded to people on any given day, I would assume that this is just another one of those.  Some kid is out there probably laughing his a** off at so many people devoting so much time and energy to something that isn't even legit.

For those who disagree with me, I apologize...don't berate me, it's my opinion.

hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???

I have been struck by Beth Twitty's change in demeanor since her visit to the Van Der Sloot home - is there not a maxim somewhere to the effect 'I have met the enemy and the enemy is me' - haven't got that dead on but... - these families are suffering together in this - I have always felt this to be true - Beth is somewhat down - I feel for her.

<<< :oops: Sorry, RL!  Not enough coffee yet.  Minutes after posting that "last 8 or so pages" I realized maybe more pages were added after I went to bed.  :oops:   I've put RMiller's link in my edit for others to see.  :oops: >>>

Thanks, RMiller!

Do you think there should be a thread for that letter, so the people who get on today who didn't get to see it can go read it?  THen they can debate on that thread its authenticity?  I don't know how to create a thread :oops:

I can't believe the ruckus that this alleged email caused. There are a thousand reasons (check the postings) to doubt the authenticity of this email, and -- even if it were genuine -- it would only represent the OLD story, that the detainees have already discarded.

It is hard to be in warrior mode when you have seen the pain of the other side

I was not aware of that!  :lol:

Twitty's lawyer is no characterizing information sharing as "good," one of the three boys has apparently pointed the finger at Steven G Croes and:

from Riehl World View site

I believe it is fair to say all of the mothers whose children are involved in this case, whether the suspects mothers, or Natalees mother are suffering. I am sure no one wants to believe their child is capable of causing so much harm, and anguish to any family. As a mother myself, I know it would be very hard for me to accept a little boy i raised would be capable of anything so horrible. Natalees mom is suffering very much, and her actions are understandable, but I am sure talking with Jorans mother brought home the issue that his mother is upset also.
It in no way excuses the responsibilty of whoever took Natalee and I do believe they were involved. A knee jerk reaction would be to cover your butt, and lie and say you dropped her off at her hotel. But to continue the lie knowing your facing jail time makes no sense unless you are truelly hiding SOMETHING more. Just my opinion anyway.

somebody, possibly a member of this site, has done a good job of summarizing the first version of the events before the alleged change of versions.  we have  one of the security guards telling us that the purported author has recanted the version in his own email.  We do not know for a fact he has.  It is possible the three drafted the email collectively to "validate"  and script their intitial story but that is far-fetched too.  Has this gotten into the MSM?

and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........

Joran's mom's statement would be hearsay at best.  I don't know that this qualifies as a new version of the story.  Just an observation.

Yes, it has been a wake-up call to many of us to check our objectivity and to consider the perspectives of the other families involved.

I hope that this new dimension in this relationship of parents gives them all at least a tiny bit of peace and that the energy spent on mutual mistrust can now be turned in a positive direction.

I agree.  I feel badly for both mothers.  If my son told me he was innocent; I would believe...it's something that is innate in mothers.  Am I saying JVDS is innocent?  I really don't know, but if we aren't sure of his inocence, I bet his parents will stand behind him 100%.  Who would want to believe their child is guilty of "possible" murder?

the only stories that matter are the ones that have been given to the police.

we don't know how many stories there are and who's been changing them. according to the AP story this am, croes is co-operating with police (whatever that means)

If you say so bill.  If Joran told his mother that he had nothing to dowith it and just left her on the beach..and Greta was there when she said it, how would that not be credible? Not saying its true what he said, ya know

I gave up in dismay and disgust last night after the email and the Greta show but as far as i know only wonderwoman had this.  it does not appear to be a campaign.  more like an aspiring author trying his/her  stuff out on these gullible monkeys.

where did you hear about croes cooperation wiht the police?

Are you saying that you think Beth feels guilty for all of this??  As Beth has said, she left their house with "confirmation" -- and she feels that "more individuals" know about Natalee's disappearance and that "more individuals" should be detained.  She has said all along that she thought Joran's father knew more than he was telling.  I think she left that meeting with the Van der Sloots confident that she has been right all along.

I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.

I just hope so many pages on this thread don't "go there" again today.  I got tired of reading all of that last night :?  :)

Because it's Joran's mom saying what she remembers Joran saying.  Third hand info, and subject to telephone message syndrome.  This would not be valid eveidence in any court.  Why take it as fact?  I sure don't.

Yeah i couldnt believe that when i saw that, if this is legite, then was it turned over to police? and if it was legite and turned over to police, there is no way they would allow it resurface and float around random forums..Just my opinion!

First of all, of course CNN is not going to mention that a competitor 'scooped" them regarding the meeting between Natalee's Mom and the Van Der Sloot parents. They had to report this event, but no way are they going to mention on their network that Fox is responsible for this meeting, nor would they allow Beth to say that either.

As for the email....I do believe that it could be authentic. If we could see the headers from the email, it would prove it or disprove it. Even if it is authentic, it doesn't mean what he is saying is necessarly true, it is just his "version" of what happened, and we don't know if this "version" is the truth, or the story the guys cooked up for a statement of what happened.

Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.

I think that's a good idea - tho I don't know how either.  That said, people probably wouldn't use it anyway and will spend pages and pages debating it here. :roll:

well on the fox news special last night..they said that the father had met with joran at one point and was saying dont talk anymore, or say anything to authorities and this and that, and authorites had it wired (obviously being in jail things are monitored) and they caught him sayin that so that is why they wont give him permission agian to talk to his son......................

Yes Mrs. Twitty and the stepmother (a much more genuine person) and  were all sweetness and smiles yesterday, no demanding, no tantrums, no name calling, everybody cooperating.   Do they know something or have they changed antidepressants?

I think that is a great idea. All you need to do is click on new topic I think.

I was under the impression this was discussed before he was arrested? Because she did say she wasnt allowed to talk to him about the case during visits. This would lead to me to conclude if it is in fact true, she asked him prior to his arrest. If that is true, then he was already trying out new stories, and possibly tried it out on his mother. At this point IF they have all changed stories (which we simply DONT know they have its all rumor) I would have no reason to believe them. As my mother used to say "So which lie is true?"

WW posted 2 more emails as well.

Which would make her in a lil more deep than otherwise thought, because tat would mean that she was witholding information in the beginning when he was using the Holidat Inn story....again just my opinion

sorry it was the CNN story, toward the bottom of the page

Croes is now cooperating with authorities, the sources said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/21/aruba.holloway/index.html

Actually he told him this PRIOR to  being arrested and did not know they were being wire tapped. So the police took this as him giving legal advice and after his arrest used that to prevent further contact. That is their story anyway. Who knows what was really said while they were being watched.

Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.

Not necessarily, since we do not know whether Joran has told this to the police in one of his versions. Also, it is very possible that the Vandersloot's have given the police this info during the time that Mr VDS was being questioned as a witness

But Deepak is not a West Indian.

Ok , absolut I'll bite, do you know what page they are on, I'm too tired to do anymore searching.  8)

3 were put up in total on here. These emails are also being discussed in newsgroups and on other forums so this is not the only place.

good morning everyone...

I have been following this forum for the past couple of weeks now and have gained much insight from reading here....many thanks.

For those of you who may be interested, I would like to share an experience my husband and I had in Aruba some three years ago...we were on one of our many trips to Aruba and were staying at LaCabana resort.  Our time there was during the first anniversary of 9/11, so there were not many tourists on the island at the time.

We were staying in a top floor unit, located in the back of the resort, facing the highway.  One morning as we were preparing to start our day and heading to our car in the parking lot below, we were shocked to see that a young Aruban male had deliberately jumped to his death from the roof of the resort above us.  Due to polis and rescue personnel, we delayed in leaving as planned.

As troubling as we felt this event was at the time, we were even more surprised to learn that a similar suicide had occurred two weeks earlier at the Hyatt....again some young Aruban male had lept to his death from this resort.  

Little or no mention was made of the suicide in the local newspapers during our days to follow in Aruba.......we wondered why it got so little attention.  In talking to the locals there and mentioning this most troubling of events, we were told at that time that chances were, both guys were in serious trouble with drug dealers on the islands,,,,,columbians, most likely, and that these folks are ruthless.....these two, chances are, leapt to their deaths to spare their immediate families of any repercussions from these drug lords....

Just a thought and a different spin on the island.

I followed, and it worked :D   I have added the first letter on  a thread for all to see and debate.  If anyone wants to go back and include the other two emails that would be great!  I think this will allow for people to read the letter and debate its authenticity...since it seems to be such a "hot" topic....still

Ok so there are 3 seperate emails? I only saw one. Guess I didnt stay up late enough or something. Where are the other two if u dont mind me asking?

Yes, but this version of the story came about AFTER he was detained and after the old story started to fall apart.

Maybe not biologically...but culturally?  Probably so.

Wow, ok Momto5, you got me.  i was wrong

What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.

Like i said in my post right above..... "just my opinion"

Isn't he from Aruba or lived in Aruba for years?

<<<<Wow, ok Momto5, you got me.  i was wrong>>>

Oh its ok, I just pay attention to everything but still get confused by some of the statements that have leaked out in this case. I just wish we had a clear answer as to where she was by now. I also wonder just how much information was obtained during the time they were wire tapped?

good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....

West Indians are people from the West Indies....
Anguilla Antigua & Barbuda Aruba The Bahamas Belize Barbados
Bermuda Bonaire British Virgin Islands Cancun Cayman Islands Cozumel
Cuba Curacao Dominica Dominican Republic Grenada Guyana Guadeloupe Haiti Honduras Jamaica Martinique Montserrat Puerto Rico
Saba & St. Eustatius St. Barthelemy St. Kitts-Nevis St. Lucia St. Maarten & St. Martin St. Vincent & The Grenadines Trinidad & Tobago Turks & Caicos Island U.S. Virgin Islands

All 3 are now in this thread http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223

absolut:  did the email being discussed eleswhere originate here or elsewhere?  i recall ww was a bit coy on its procedence.

She was at least a 1 off as she did not recieve them from him. There is about 20 pages from last night that cover everything from not having usable headers to their content.

I try to keep up with what's said here, but I'll be the first to admit I can't read every page.  Please bear with me and answer one question - I'm watching fox and Natalee's Aunt (Jug's sister?) just said JDV and his father were the last to see her alive - what have I missed here???  Or did I misunderstand??

Ive not seen that posted anywhere, but I also dont have the news on. Maybe there was new information or something.

Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.

Good morning, Rob. It's now Day 23. (Maybe Catriana should start labelling her posts by days, since she normally changes the forum in the early am.) My hopes of finding Natalee alive are slipping away.

Sorry - misquote - the Aunt said JVD and his father were the last to see her - (I shouldn't have included "alive" - she didn't say that), but I honestly think she said JDV's father saw her.  I know there was conversation last night about Natalee coming to JDV's house or something - couldn't follow all of it.  Anyone with information?

Hmmm the last I heard was that JDV's father stated that JDV snuck out of the house and that's all he knows. There's too many stories to keep up with....

 

Not that it matters that much but where is this list from and why does it include Guyana which is just next to Suriname and not Suriname or for that matter French Guyana.  Is it because nobody knows Suriname exists?  Do you have to speak English to be a west indian.  If so why are aruba and curacao and puerto rico and martinique on this list and why are Honduras and Belize on this list but not Venezuela and Panama or Colombia the country where Cartagena de las Indias is located?  I think you list is inaccurate.  we have the east indies and the west indies.  the west and east part are as viewed from europe, which colonized these areas and named them.

Rob, if you're right I'm headin' up there to buy you a beer or whatever it is all y'all drink up there...promise.

Thanks all I can say is wow!! I really don't know if they are true but the whole scenario does have a ring of truth to it.

How convienet is the story about joran sneaking out..therefore the father is not obligatede/expected to know where his son was, when he came back, who he was with, when he came home etc............

You make a good point Kelly.  Kidnapping would get you far less time than murder.

God, if she is alive, i think all of us that have been on here for three weeks should meet up for a beer hahahhahaaha :wink:

Hey Absolut, thank you for finding and posting the other two emails on the thread...THat'll be a big help for those who want to read them!

morning all...i'll buy a round too....i still have hope for her return.

I think is great if people want them to debate them, but if they need the backstory how they got here and the context in which they were posted, those 20 pages can't really be summarized objectively by anyone. It would be best to read the backstory for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

I just think if it was me, i woudl be like ok i lied, im stuck, they are on to me, if  i knew where she was or that she was alive, i would be like ok....this is the deal..and they would strike a deal with them i am sure...you give us the girl, you will get kidnapping attempted murder etc or whatever which is far less serious than murder 1...obviously my criminal justice is not an A+ so i dont know the deals they strike in there..but just think that i would at this point (23 days later) realize that there is no way out of this....unless there is smoething far more serious they are holding in............

definitelt absolut....no one wants to wake up rehashing all of what was
already picked apart for hours....read it, right, and come back with questions.IMHFO

I would think that out of all of them that croes is going to tel them authorities the deal..cause he would not be charged with the murder/kidnappin etc...he would get aiding and abedding for going along with the story and prob get 2 years or something........ so he has more of a life to save here..................

I agree, should we post which threads and which page it originally started on that separate thread?  Do you happen to know?  I thought it was somewhere in the 30's... :?

That is if croes did not assist in that........i should have siad that in the beginnin..........i just think that croes knew about it

Guyana is located in the South America, however they speak with a caribbean accent and they cook caribbean food. They also listen to Caribbean music (soca). The is from http://www.caribbeantravel.com/map_full.html   ....YES Cubans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans ARE from the caribeen/west indies. My family is from Panama, Trinidad, Barbados and Costa Rica oh and America. In my family, we have west indian accents and some also speak Spanish. Panama is in Central America. We call people from the Caribbean "West Indians" The Caribbean is full of what we call EAST INDIANS.

Aruba Facts:
The island of Aruba is part of the West  Indies in the Caribbean Sea, and lies about 12 degrees north of  the equator, approximately 29km (18 miles) off the Paraguaná Peninsula of Venezuela. One  of the Lesser Antilles islands, Aruba is about 30 km (19 miles) long and

about 8 km (5 miles)  wide with an area of 193 sq km (75 sq miles). The island's  population is about 89,000. The capital is Oranjestad named  after the Dutch House of Orange.
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/geography.html

Thank you Dr. Iquitos for that Prozac moment. That was my first laugh of the day.

Use search people.  If you tell it to search by POST it will pull up all of them that way and you don't have to look for page numbers.  It really is faster.

Because of the way it came out in pieces at first. I found the best way to track it was to to go to memberlist, then go to wonderwomans profile and view all post. Then trackback from there were the first snippet was posted.

We had been led to beleive here, before the greta extravaganza, that joran had taken natale home that night.  that was not confirmed by the greta show, not even implied.  in fact the old man said he did not know joran left that night, and did not "recall" whether he had awakend him the next morning or if he went to school the next day.  the dad must have had one heineken too many after he picked joran up at mikkie dee at 11 (if joran was at the casino why did he meet dad at mikkie dee?}. The elder v/d s He did not to notice when Deepak? came for him and he snuck out.  One of the problems with the email is that it mention stuff we did not know for sure until last night like eyewitness accounts of how/where Joran (at the casino, that same night), the rumoured sighting of Joran's dad at the parking lot of mikkie dee (at wrong hour),  etc.  So it is almost as if the email and the greta show are coordinated.   whoever wrote it, it is a peice of work.  

Does anybody recall if we know if Joran went to school that day after?  I remember rumors that he came to school with scratches and bruises on his face.  Did he even go home first?  Was he on the schoolbus.  This is important to the timeline.

good morning all!  just got here.  i've been scanning and notice something about eamils?  can you tell me where i can find them so i can read the "backstory" or someone can pm me with a rundown?   thanks bunches!   :D

Prof. and Absolut,
the first time the full lenght email was published was on page 35.  Do you think I should list any earlier pages to start on?  I will revise my post on the other thread with what page you guys think I should direct the readers to start....

Tim Miller from the Texas group is being interviewed on CNN. He said they are organizing and making plans to start the "big search" on Friday. They are working with the authorities.
They are bringing 4 of the nations best dogs 'trained for this kind of search'.
They are bringing divers and side sonar, and implied the Aruban divers haven't gotten wet yet.
His first plans when he lands in Aruba is to give Beth a big understanding hug, since he knows what she is going through.

I think in fairness it has to start at the snippet and the conversation to get the rest out.

check the wonder woman thread.

Since we have never learned officially what the story is and what has been said, you have no way of knowing that. I suspect that the visits between Mrs. VDS and Joran are strictly monitored.

Go to search.  Type in wonderwoman for the user.  I put the * just in case I mispelled it.

Then for forum say Natalee hollowy

In the lower left corner click on POSTS.  and it will brink hers up.  

If you want to read a specific post it takes you directly to the page and the post and you don't lose any time.

It really, really does work.

Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol

Neither were dash, and some have found that their accounts do not match dash or previously held "truths"

Point taken.  Sorry to have implied anything, but I'd have considered Surinam South American before it being West Indian.

In the context of the original post, it was said that the hoax e-mail might be authentic because it contains things only a "West Indian" would say.  In retrospect, I cannot dispute that Deepak would have been in the Carribean (all his life?) to have picked up these subtle traits.

I stand corrected.

Thank you Absolut..!!

So we have an either-or situation. Either Joran told her that prior to his arrest and prior to the time he changed his story (in which case she was withholding information), or he told her that after he was arrested and after he changed his story (in which case she violated the rule that she wasn't supposed to talk about the case.) Either way, the lady is covering for her son.

so what do surinamers eat?  their food is certainly better than that in guyana but they will eat a roti in a pinch.  they even have a roti fast food chain but that is east indian food isn't it.  Are surinamers east indians?  actually, about half of them are. i guess we should call deepak and satish east indians transplanted to a no mans land adjacent to the west indies in south america.  i know where aruba is but you digress.  Why is Suriname not in the West indies, and by the way what kind of music fo they listen too?  Just beacuse one knows little about it is not a reason to exclude it from its proper geographic region.  I think the list is incomplete, ginned up by some travel agent, a geographer not.

no problem the questions i can handle. It's the how,what, when, where why this post that post, that I am trying to stay calm over. I need a drink already.

We are aware of that...........again, its just some theories, and opinions that we are throwing out there. No one obviously knows the "truth" to any of this

Check and see if you think this is it....Whew!   a lot of searching :shock:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=340

Yep 12th post down.

1. Thanks to the monkeys here I knew to watch Greta last night.. thank you!
2. Greta vs., Nancy... I usually do not watch Fox, but Greta scooped Nancy Grace last evening.. Congrats Greta... I will watch YOU on fox plus Nancy now
3. Moms and Dads - IMHO
a. PVDS showed high degree of class inviting G and B into home.
b. Beth shows class and sauvy, bartering between Fox and CNN< looking for Nat, and doing all she can to do things right while at same time proactively looking for NH
c. The Aruban official was classy.
4. Thank goodness they found the boyscout.

Did anyone else get kicked off the site and have a rediculous amount of trouble getting back on???????????? Ahhhhhhhhhh i was like nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :lol:

Yep I did. I think they were down for a moment.

Not sure about the father Sloot, maybe he wan't at home either.  I think all this information just goes to show that none of us really know anything other than what happened from the beginning.  What we do know for sure is what has come from those on the ground in Aruba involved in the case.  We know a rough timeline of the events at around 0100 to 0130, we have knowledge of three different stories from the suspects and security gaurds.  The rest is all rumor and conjecture.

I'll be the first one to admit to being a control freak, always wanting to know everything about any situation I'm involved in.  Rarely does something take me by surprise.  In this case however, I think we can only sit back and pray and hope for a good outcome.  Let the judicial process (as flawed as we think it may be) down there, do its job.

It's funny, over the weekend I was flying down a deserted central California road and there in the ground, in the middle of no where, was a hand written sign that said "Trust Jesus."  That's the only thing that stuck out in a 300 mile road trip.

Kelly.. I got kicked off also.. !!

YEah cause i noticed that there were no more posts once i left

Good morning, All

I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.

May29th Sunday

8am-10pm       Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .      Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar.


2pm-7?pm.        sleep, shower, drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?            Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young

7pm-11pm       MUSIC CONCERT
Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill,Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh

11pm         Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds.

11.30pm-1.30am    Carlos and Charlies. Approx 40 MB student were there..

12.00am-1.30am    Joran arrives with Kalpoes Bros?

1.30am-2.30am   Cruising at California Lighthouse, Fisherman’s Hut/Beach?

2.30am-3.00am   Joran’ s house??

If I leave here tomorrow
would you still remember me
For I must be travelling on now
there's too many places I gotta see

"Suriname's food is an exotic mix of East Indian, Indian, Creole and Chinese cuisines; the cheapest eateries are warungs, Javanese food stalls serving fried noodle and rice dishes."

Guyanese food is great! They cook curry the best in MY opinion.

They listen to chutney soca music.

There are alot of East Indians in Suriname. As well as in Guyana,
Trinidad n Tobago, Jamaica, etc....If you have any more questions, ask away. lol

sorry my puter crapped out and then i could nt get back in...i just looked at ms twtty last night and she had the look of someone who had inside info...im not sure these idiots actually have anything to do with it... but again, i dont know all the real facts....jorans and the brothers have never struck me as smart enough to pull off the perfect crime.. career professional criminals are often unable to pull off the perfect crime...

I too have wondered the same thing...

heineken junior.... amstel light..... 8)

<<Let the judicial process (as flawed as we think it may be) down there, do its job.>>

I have discussed the Aruban procedures with my roomie.  We have decided the Aruban way may be a good way, re: not giving out ANY information until they have an iron clad case.  Maybe we should do this in USA?  We are still trying to decide. It drives the media and public mad however.  At least they are not "trying the case in the media" as so often happens in the states.

Joran seems to be gangster like in his actions, the beating of his chest and saying defiantly, "What do you want me to do?!" is what gang members do. The poses he takes in his photos are gangster like and his nickname.
Has there been any investigation into gang's on the island?

What about the casino meeting that day?

Also we have conflicting reports if she went to CNC with that group or a little bit later with a smaller group or alone.

I wondered the same thing.. Didn't her roomies notice that she wasn't gathering her stuff to go to the airport?  I found this a bit odd...Sorry if this was already discussed and I missed it.  
PS..I updated the other thread with the link to the beginning...thanks for your help :)

AGREED!  I think for the most part, over the past few weeks, we have somewhat eben on the same page with our comments lol..good to haev someone to back me up a lil on here! Sometimes it turns into a "cat fight" hahhaha.... Its like a crime to have an opinion sometimes  :lol:

i have not read all the way down and sorry if this has been covered, but in the interview last night, didn't greta mention the reason papa vds was detained was because he was caught discussing info about the case with his son?  so, did the aruban authorities  not moniter convos b/t mom and son?  it sounds like the convos b/t dad & son were monitored, i believe she used the words "wire tapped".

I missed these interviews last night. If it isnt a big ordeal - what were the discrepancies between these two girls and what was previously "known"? if its a big deal, forget it, Im sure someone will go over it during the course of the day. Thanks.

What's Joren's nickname?

yes that is true, but someone had corrected me in saying htat i guess the converstaion was had before jorans arrest adn they were just being tapped

noted, kel........

I'm sure the mothers are suffering but mom's don't have a lock on caring for their children.  Us dads spend PLENTY of time loving and worrying about our kids too!   :)

May I be bold and suggest that that "email" be given its own thread?  I personally think it is just another Internet hysteria hoax kind of thing that everyone is going to just continue rehashing.

I really liked the GVS show, one of the best hours of investigative reporting I have ever seen with regard to these types of 'crime investigation features'.

 I think the VDS parents seemed perfectly normal and behaved EXACTLY like you would hope nice parents of a suspect would behave.  I thought they were gracious and kind to a very scared mother.   I also thought that whole meeting, as reported by GVS , provided common sense, simple explanations for many things.  Like why father VDS was interrogated by police.

Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.

With regard to when the MBHS group first suspected something, I think it was around 8am or 9am when they all met in the lobby and her friends could not find her.  Things became frantic when the groups left for the airport and Natalee had still not shown up.

Yes.

Perhaps the new server has arrived?

Pimp

ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?

It was a previous held belief Natalee had met JVDS on a previous day in the casino in HI. It has also been believed that Natalee was at the Beach concert from roughly 7-11pm.

The MBHS on Greta last night said that she met JVDS on the 29th in the casino and that other accounts were false. They then saw JVDS and his friends at CNC later that night. This was the first time JVDS was placed at CNC with friends.

natalees true friends on greta  last night said they were worried very early and went to the chaperones about it.  I would put it before 8 am, the assembly time.  by the way, all, we heard last night distinctly that paul was overheard telling joran in jail that he should shut up because he was spilling his guts as he apprently had been doing at school.  maybe it was the first time they took him in.

I wonder why they weren't frantic when they WOKE UP and she wasn't there!

I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.

ahhhhh, very little correct here.....

Very true, wasnt trying to discount the daddys out there by any means. Just was pointing out what Greta said about Jorans mother breaking down also. Jorans dad she said was wringing his hands and things like that. He probably feels he has to keep it together on general principle.

The email has its own thread.

anyone got any more info on this Lorenzo guy?

Oh, that's nice.

hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

Excellent Fluffy, I agree with all you said.  Thank goodness Greta had the good sense to comply with PVDS's request to turn off the camera.  I think Greta may have the scoop of the year... she blew Nancy Grace out of the water.

It kinda does seem as if the mother "wears the pants" in the family and that the father would be the "free for all" guy..but i no that i haev no way or right to make that assumption!

It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.

That's who fascinates me. He seems like such a shady character--I can't figure out how he's connected.

I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!

I got that same impression Rob..! Moms seems to be a little more over protective with sons then dads do.. IMO..lol

By cheating?? :shock:

I know it may not be the "popular" opinion here, but he had to have limits I agree. Or he was just a genius and didnt need sleep or homework. Alot of teenagers sneak out and their parents never know about it. I still have secrets my mom never knew about from when I was a teenager. I think she might faint even today if she knew half of the things I did without her knowing.

It's a little laid back in the caribbean so maybe that's why he wasn't charged for misconduct. Yeah, I wonder how his family can go on professionally with all of this.....

I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....

Many thanks..

On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.

I thought Paul was the one that needed to travel for his studies to become a judge.

Yay!

I also think I noticed  that the two girls interviewed on GVS made a small, insistent point that her 'real friends' wouldn't have let her get in that car.  Anyone else pick up on that inflection?

Fluff

I'm no lawyer, but I think there are admirable qualities to both systems (US and Aruban).  Those same qualities also conflict with what make us (some of us) American.  Open and transparent systems are the norm here in the US because we place individual right over those of the population.  It is the reverse in Aruba (and much of the rest of the world for that matter).  

Again, they are just different.  Both have good and bad aspects.

maybe she went to see family.. bc the flight is so far.. ppl tend to stay at aleast 2 weeks....

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.

Yes I noticed that too! I guess they're reading alot of messageboards! lol

The Lorenzo I'm referring to is Lorenzo Van Rijn, a local person (not sure of his age but I think he's in his late 20's, like Steve Croes) whose father owned a Volkswagon dealership and committed suicide around 3 years ago. Ever since the suicide, Lorenzo has purportedly not cared about anything. He has two houses on different sides of the island, as I understand it. One is covered with crazy spraypaint and is the site of underground parties; the police usually break up underground parties, but since his house is out-of-the-way the police don't usually break those up.

That's what I've gathered about him from the boards; nothing came up when I Googled him. I'm still not sure how he's connected, but I know his name was thrown around the same day as the Steve Croes arrest--maybe they know each other.

Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO

i heard that.. ouch! :shock:

The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.

How do you know his GPA? I be suspect of that. He does not have a good reputation on the island.

You know if it walks like a duck....

I watched it happen all the way through college.

so is this the guy that is missing?

I didn't know there was anyone missing...that must have slipped by me.

I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!

as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....

his gpa is like 3.5 i remember reading in the beginning...

I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to say that he is.  Anyone agree?

Good one Rob,
It's all about appearences to Mr Judge

No..this is not the one that is missing.  The name of the person missing is Sergio Gomez, or something like that.  Not much has been said about this.

I thought he had a tennis scholarship for school in the US.

This is not the only place that message was posted.  Check some newsgroups if you have newgroup access and a reader.

hes a wanna be......like alotta of kids his age....

thank you.

I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.

is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?

Arubans, how much American television do you get.

Pimp has other meanings besides selling women in the us now.

My own kids watch that Pimp my Ride show.

Cars are pimped out.  

Yes it may be based on the flash of pimps, but kid use it for being flashy and showy without the sexual overtones.

I don't think he could have bluffed his GPA, SAT's, and get a scholarship to a school no one else he knew was attending. He must be a smart kid, his mom is a teacher so I am sure that helps. I agree with amiller- that I think Joran is a lot less "hard" than we would all like to believe.

Are you talking about the person who was beheaded? That was Renee Van Heningen.

WHAT? ok wta a minute, i step away for a second and now we are talking abotu these dead people....please inform? lol

The guy they found decapitated is the cemetary's name is Rene Van Heyningen.

these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....

I don't have the name of the decapited guy close by, but it is not the same.

thanks...so many van somethings here....

Do you really think PVDS is just wanting to look good (calm, cool) for the cameras?  If so, why did he run like a maniac to his car the other day in front of the cameras.  Isnt it possible he is just as caught off guard by this entire fiasco as the moms are?

so there is the decapitated guy (REne) and there is somoene else that is missing? SOrry i know you guys have been chattin about this for a few and prob haev it all covered adn dont want to repeat all this..just wonderin (if its not too complicated) to just catch me up...If not ..no big deal..just hard to scroll back while at work adn check allt he other posts

Would you go out on a date with him? He sounds scarey to me!

Indeed...ouch!  

But c'mon, think back to Dash's account.  NH and Joren were sort of behind the others from MB as they were leaving and NH 'sort of' (can't remember the exact word Dash used)  pointed ahead and said "I'm going with them."  

Possible that NH knew they wouldn't let her and was being a bit sneaky here?

PLEASE POST LINK TO LORENZO FRANKIE.  BTW LAST NAME IS NOT VAN RIJN.

Yep. Most teenagers ecspecially boys try to portray themselves as cool and tough. Fact of the matter is most of them arent. My 13 yr old has said things like "Ima gangsta" blah blah. We live in a small southern town and there are no gangs for miles. I tell him to sit the *beep* down. I was raised in southern CA in the likes of Long Beach. He simply has no clue. I wouldnt be too surprised if this were the case with Joran and Co.

I agree K.. My son watches that tv show also..and he and his friends call each other pimps as well..even my 11 yr old nephew saw a car the other day and said..Look at that..how cool.. its really pimped..lol I think its just a term kids use nowadays...meaning nothing by it. not like the definition of pimps us older people know!

papa has some bolts loose upstairs....

I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.[/quote]



Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.

When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

I totally agree.  Kids put on these personas to appear cool.  I think we are reading too much into the pictures.  I know my own sister does "gangsta" poses, but she was the salutatorion of her class...and a great role mode.  However, kids do those things (make gestures, call themselves cool names) to appear cool.

My opinion is they did not do a good job parenting their child. I beleive he got into the wrong crowd. I beleive it is easier to do that in Aruba. I do feel sorry for them, but not as sorry as I do for the Natalee's parents.
Maybe some good will come from this. I pray we find out the truth and that Joran is helped and tells the truth.

I heard on one of the MSM's, Greta I think, that Joran has a tennis scholarship to school in the US.

i see some of the same things wrong with papa vd sloot that i see wrong with my own father, sorry to say....

Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.[/quote]

All of that holds true until daddy picks him up at MCD's at 11 on sunday night. Cause JVDS can't drive or be in Casinos on the island and it is a school night.

I did date "him". NOT JORAN, but someone just like him for 6 years. The guest house from his parents house, the gambling, the fake gang signs, the "pimped" out car, cheating on me with anything. Partying with younger girls... It usually is just someone's outside. I don't know for sure, but most killers, or abductors don't keep websites... too obvious.

Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.[/quote]
Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.

A 33-year-old male was found decapitated, but no one's sure if it's related to drugs or if his wife/girlfriend put out a hit on him. There's been some speculation about the circumstances.

This is the first I've heard that someone is missing, so I really can't fill you in on that...

We don't know where he was those days. We don't know he was alone.

He easily could have been staying in the home of a classmate or family friend.

Plus he is basically the same as the kids from Alabama.  His graduation was just a few days later.

If it is ok for them to go to a foriegn country, and I think it is, then is certainly would be ok for him to stay in his own home for two nights.

Sorry to hear that Rob

Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.[/quote]

granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....

Same here.  In fact my whole senior year was pretty lax as most of my 'heavy' classes were behind me, mostly extra-curricular stuff and a study trip, then 'crip' classes.  It was a year of a lot of freedom and fooling around even tho my parents were older than 'the norm' and fairly strict.

i deal....with it.. it s ok....now...thanx though :lol:

For some reason throwing this "Lorenzo" guys name around has bothered me.  We've made some rather inflammatory statements about him given we have NO idea if he's related to this case or not.  AND, there are so many folks who are not up to speed with the case that they wonder if he's the "dead guy"...Paulas' son, etc.

Also, I think we know too little to judge whether Joran's parents are good or not.  I'm not ready to make an assumption.  We also know Joran was a good student, good athlete.  He could also be a jerk...or a gentleman....we know too little IMO to make a full character assessment.

For those who are getting up to speed with this case I suggest you go to the timeline Brenda prepared.  I haven't read it all yet...but, it does help get the facts down.

Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.[/quote]

Let me clear up why I even posted dates about his mom and dad. There has been much confusion of who was out of the country over this weekend and into monday. It was not clear until last night. Much has been made of the father coming back on the 29th. Then it is learned the mother did not comeback until the 31st I think is what we now know.

JVDS being alone on the 27th and 28th only matters if he met Natalee on one of those 2 days as was originally thought.

Nicely said. That is what I was trying to say but havent been able to put it into words correctly. (I also have 5 kids running around the house that tends to make my brain malfunction from time to time and lose focus lol)

This is odd..A Sergio Gomez is a reporter for El Tiempo in Colombia...Wonder if its him

Exactly he will be 18 in the next month or so , so it is the same situation as the kids on the trip .

Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.

All of that holds true until daddy picks him up at MCD's at 11 on sunday night. Cause JVDS can't drive or be in Casinos on the island and it is a school night.[/quote]

Thinking out loud...So the 27th and  28th he's on his own, but school get's out on Friday the 27th and he rides the bus home.  On Sat the 28th, he theoritically doesn't need transportation because there's no where he has to be.  His dad comes back on the 29th and JVS goes out and his dad pick's him up at 11:00 p.m. and brings him home.  After that, JVS sneeks out and goes to CC's.

All we know is that is has been reported he was brought in for questioning.  He, like Max whichever, was not held over like Steve.

That ought to say something, but I don't pretend to know what.

Fox is saying that Joran keeps changing his story, he's looking guiltier every day.  Feel sorry for his parents though.

Do they have pictures of this missing sergio guy? is he young?

Well all you have to do is see all the yahoo and aol.com profiles, I really see nothing unusual, okay the gambling in the casino..I wonder where he gets the money?  Does he do it alot?

Hmmm  a few minutes ago on FOX.. the reporter said JVS keeps changing his stories and is at odds with the others.. Hell.. is that old news or new? lol  Duh..

Okay if I am not mistaken we learned this from Greata last nigh:
1. Father picked Joran up at Mcdonalds at 11:00 p.m.
2.  After Joran got home he snuck out (12:00-12:30)
3. Father cant remember if he woke son up. (which is understandable since they didnt live in the same house).
4.  It was confirmed by other media tha Joran was at school that day.
I think that mr VDS was very nice to let greta and Mrs. Beth to go on his house.  I would almost be afraid to let them guilty or innocent.  I know the father is innocent and believe the son is not the ring leader.

Seeing his Dad picked him up at 11pm, on a school night... that matches our curfew times for my teens.  
Parent set limits and teens live for the "gray" area of limits and the challeges of "beating the system  :D

I see many similarities to my own experiences as a teen and as a parent of teen boys:
Sneaking out ... that matches my experience as a teen.
Maybe matches my sons? hmmm time to set at trap?

Not knowing child snuck out....matches my folks experiences and basically if you didn't know he snuck out, how would you know when he came home....gulp if they do sneak out then this matches me :?
Waking a teen for school around here is a shout upstairs or hearing the music from the alarm that stays on until he dashes out to get the bus....or stays on all day because he was REALLY dashing for the bus..."Run Forrest Run" is a daily thought here.

So my point is there maybe limits that were "Teenaged" around.
Around here, its the mom that nags for the teen to get up, dad just says if he misses the bus he has a bike.  Dad was left in charge and mom comes home to this after all her years & days of staying on top of things?  Happens here so I can see it happening in Aruba.
IMHO

I was thinking the same thing.

jounalists are often target when they are out of the country as to make it look as if they, (drug lords) have nothing to with it

No...no pictures or anything else.

 

Yes, of course!  Personally, I really liked making out with really cute guys at that age.  And it DID NOT mean having sex ! And I wouldn't have wanted my freinds to stop me.  And I was a VERY good girl, I just liked cute boys!

JVS now being trasnferred to the main prison  Croes is the only left at the police station

I am beginning to think that Joran, Deepak and Satish are innocent.

granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....[/quote]

wow good point...

I've never seen any confirmation he was brought in for questioning...they say many people have been questioned...so it could be true...but, do we really know that?

Thinking out loud...So the 27th and  28th he's on his own, but school get's out on Friday the 27th and he rides the bus home.  On Sat the 28th, he theoritically doesn't need transportation because there's no where he has to be.  His dad comes back on the 29th and JVS goes out and his dad pick's him up at 11:00 p.m. and brings him home.  After that, JVS sneeks out and goes to CC's.[/quote]
Yes. He then meets up with Natalee there and leaves thats when the time line gets screwy...

Maybe we are. But it's disturbing to me that he quickly started unloading his websites. Maybe he realized exactly what he was presenting to the public and that it would be read that way because that's how it came across?  So suspicious, to start deleting your steps on the Internet.  I'm not sure we're reading enough into those websites - maybe something that caused him to self-delete, for instance.

ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?

wow good point...[/quote]
Good point. But nothing has been said on whether they had someone "watching" them or not. It would be interesting to know what the plan was when both parents were away. I usually have one. My kids range from 4 mths to 16 yrs old. So I have to make plans in any case for the younger children, and the older ones have to cope.

He has gone from being placed with three other guys as the last ones around NH, to being dropped off at a beach with NH, and subsequently, leaving NH hysterical/sleeping on the beach.  I think the polis are finally breaking him down. He has placed himself as the last person around NH. I am not feeling good about this outcome.  :(

Valentijn was with mom on trip.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?

A LITTLE SNEAKY, A LITTLE BOLD, AND A LITTLE VAGUE (SP) ON THE PART OF THE TELLER.

I was a single parent, and when I had to be out of town, I farmed my kids out to my teaching buddies--usually separately to ones who had kids my age.

There is not proof that these parents did that, but there is also no proof that they did not.

She even could have had them with her--or he could have.

We don't know.  They could have other relatives that moved to Aruba.  We don't know.

That email that ww wrote (just for you who wasnt here last night) came out befroe the Greta show came on.  The email was right on.  I think that its legit.  All religions almost believe in some type of God.  We should respect her instead of redicule her, she seems to know a lot. And we could use that here. :wink:

Innocent people may not play musical alibies. But Scared People do. Especially when your whole families future and yours is riding on it. I don't believe that Joran was a ring leader, more of a follower. I do believe drugs were involved with all people-- including Natalee.

This is certainly of interest, but let's not lose track of the central thread here. The last time Natalee was SEEN was with JORAN. So, from that point forward, the more important question should be where was HE?

I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!

yesterday there was an indication that the time line may be down to 3 am -5 am... that does look good when you admit to being the last one seen with her.....and why would someone be "hysterical"?

I thought I read on his profile that Valentijn was 19--he seemed old enough to take care of himself in any case.

The little fat kid (bless him, I love that picture where the ice cream cone is hanging out of his mouth) is another matter.

I heard he was an extasy dealer.

I think he realized his photo was being grapped and published elsewhere...if it was Joran who wrote Dan, we know that to be true.  Guilty or innocent for the sake of privacy I would sure take down my photos and friend's photos....I think we all would.

It does NOT prove guilt to do such a thing.

I'm not defending him in any way, but to pick normal activities and attach guilt is out of line.

I agree. She posted in prior to Greats show and alot in the email ended up being validated. There is no way of saying the emails werent authentic.

what about the littest kid?

This is certainly of interest, but let's not lose track of the central thread here. The last time Natalee was SEEN was with JORAN. So, from that point forward, the more important question should be where was HE?

That's exactly what the authorities would be trying to get to, to either confirm or debunk his story of this time, IMO.

I agree with you, ND!

I feel the same way, Shell.  About all of your comment.

First off Kell, I think that he has cracked by now.  He is to scared.  So he has no reason to make up a story, and being interrogated has to suck.

I just cant help but wonder where their investigation is going.  Before Beth went in the house she WAS POSITIVE THEY ARE INVOLVED.  After that, she just stated she felt that the boys knew, cause they were the last ones to see her.  Who knows.  But if they dont find her soon this case will be thrown out.

As soon as he heard her say she was Natalees mom he came out of the bushes. He looked surprised and yet
seemed anxious to talk to her. Just my take on it.

Identity protection from media is not illogical, I would do it if I was under investigation. It has nothing to do with being guilty.  In fact Joran might have been smart enough to say 'hey, I better protect my friends from harrastment' . You have to see any Yahoo board that is discussing anything and subject, it just no real discussion of issues.  Okay now the musical alibis.  One word Interrogation.  Police interrogation can break you down and make you confess to anthing.  So changing of stories migth be teh inaccurate version.  I almost have to say I am starting to believe the first story and give it more weight, no matter what supposely Deepak said.  Maybe it was a police tactic to sow discord among the group fearing that they must force a confession.  Do we have a confession..no?! Why not, for  all intense and purpose it should have been a 'simple' case.. well its not.

hes like 15 or 16....

That's very true.  But that's where everything goes haywire.  Nobody seems to know that but him.  His dad was evidently asleep.  The brothers may know some details, but probably not all.

I live in southwest Ga also!!!!

Absolutely would take down my website if I was thrust into public view like that, seems completely normal to me.

I agree with you Kelly.. had to run in the room and plant myself in front of the tv set to listen.. Wonder if Joran knows anything about NH mom and Greta visiting his parents last evening..Hmmmm....maybes hes pooping his pants!!

The decapitated body they found? I heard it was a message sent to someone. A common one sent by some satanic gang? Has anyone else heard this? I heard it on TV, can't remember which show. I beleive it was an international DEA agent stating it.

I'm starting to believe that myself.

If drugs were involved then Joran is not innocent.  I see no scenario where in the purest sense of the word those boys are completely innocent. At best, they're changing stories and giving LE and the parents the runaround. At worst, who knows?  But there's never any need to change your story if you're telling the truth.  The truth withstands ALL scrutiny.

this info that he left her hysterical/sleeping on the beach - where did that come from?

wasn't it on reihl (sp?) pictures of styrofoam, a bottle of lysol, and a security guard shirt?  was any of that authenticated?

Does anyone have a map showing JVS house, CC, Holiday Inn? How did he get to Casino? The brothers?

maybe they have and LE is wanting a confession?

Yeah but you never know til you go through it.  I would be a wreck!  There is no telling what would come out of my mouth.  They have already showed their gonna hold them guilty or innocent.

Hey, can you post a lil summary of anything they say on fox if it is in fact new information..thanks..stuck at work and tryin to be discrete over here and the typing constatnly really gives it away lol :oops:

he came out of the bushes bc, after the running episode, he would have cast a hell of alotta doubt on his son and him if he did nt .. hes weird.. but not stupid....

Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states

I thought Valentijn was the eldest which would make him older than 18 and the youngest son went to Holland with the mother.  Not to be snarly but it's not necessary to call the little one names.

jvds mom

 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.

IMHO, they are going to break JVDS.  He is going to confess "to doing something bad".  and then there will be a trial, IMHO, he wont last much longer under the stress

Not only would he be protecting his friends, but his family.  I got to see the site before it was taken down, and there were pictures of little kids...very young...on there; I would assume they were cousins or something.  I am sure that his family encouraged him to take it down.  His extended family shouldn't be subjucted to all of this.

It was on fox last night....one story was he left her there hysterical...then he elft her there sleeping..those were the reports that were said that joran changed his story to.

Yes - do you remember being that age...how those things (parents' lives/reputations, parents' trust, etc.) seemed soooo HUGE?  This concept is much discussed around teen suicide, too - the way that things such as this are blown totally out of proportion in the minds of teens.

Exactly!!

If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.

Good point.  My parents let me drink when I was in hs.  They let me go on my senior cruise also.  So there you go............  ANd I am okay (It think, excepth for the voices!

I can only think that either hardened criminals or trained militairy personnel would be able to witstand long hours of interrogation and NOT BREAK DOWN.  So we have to conclude they don;t know anything and or are innnocent of suspicion of manslaughter.   If you were in his shoes would your family allow an interview?  I have to say its time to move on...there is nothing here to find anymore., at least not from this posse.

Valentijn is Joran's younger brother and is approx 15.  He lied on his tickle site when he said he was 19.

Cherry, be careful what you believe!  That is total hearsay!

i'm starting to feel that way as well.  he only knows information up to a point.  the point at which he left her either hysterical or sleeping.  after that, he does not know and neither does deepak or satish.

Sure no problem.. if anyone else has FOX on now too..maybe they can post as well.. My tv is on in the other room..I cant hear it real well..so I keep running back and forth when something is being said!! So far nothing more other then hes changing stories and has been taken to the prison.. they all have their own cells and not around one another. Fox also says that Croes ex feel she should be released and dont believe he has anything to do with this.. Croes still being held in the police station.. Also since Joran keeps changing stories.. its making it worse on the brothers.. they will be detained longer as well.

NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!

They wouldnt have made up the holiday Inn story if that story about leavin her at the beach was in fact true...there would have ben no need too...

The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.

I don't know Nancy Drew, many crimes committed drugs are involved. Let's wait and see.

 

I imagine if the travel dates are correct that the poor van der sloots were both majorly jet lagged when the big kaka hit the ventilator.  Valentijn is 14 the other kid 10 or 12.  What has their weight got to do with it people of the most obese nation on earth?  if the kids did not go with mom i think dad, big bro are enough supervision.  some of you sound like you are prison guards for helpless kids.  as somebody said, my kids have been fixing their own breakfast since they learned to pour milk.

Everything is a DRAMA when youre a teenager no doubt about that. I dont think that drama leaves seriously until your in your 20s.

in a way they would.  joran would know that leaving her on the beach by herself would definitely not be the "gentlemanly" thing to do.

Iquitos, here's the link I found, but I don't think it is the ame Lorenzo.
http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=ZOOOWYFHh2rBRTYD

who is the little fat kid??

Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that since everyone was using that as an excuse for why he was so confrontational.)

They might have.  Just to not come off sounding like jerks that left some girl alone on the beach in the middle of the night.

how do we "know" they changed their story?

You are correct and Joran has no alibi that anyone can confirm where he was,  that has not had a story changed. After his dad picked him up at McD's at 11pm and brought him home ... what then? Father doesn't even know as he has said, thought he was in bed.

Fox News reporting the Joran is changing his story. Ah? When hasn't he changed the story? Maybe the pressure is finally starting to take hold.

Cherry:

Of course there are alot of drug crimes!  But, we don't know if Joran is a drug dealer.

The youngest Van Der Sloot brother as seen in some of the family pictures.

I think everything is a DRAMA on these message boards.

You don't have to yell. Natalee did not break any laws. She was in Aruba and abiding by their laws.

Because the guards said so. Because nearly every MSM says so. If they told one consistent story from the beginning then they would have been let go by now.

Aruban and international papers,  Joran's mother's story not fitting with the last listed scenario, Aruban and American commentators on the scene, including BHT.

He did not HAVE to.  If I was guilty there is no way I would have let her.  I would have told them my lawyer prohibited me talking about it.  He did it out of kindness and wanting to help.  I really think that the parents are not to blame.

Nancy, I just said what I had heard, and that I would not be surprised if drugs are involved.

So, Uga, you think that when Beth showed up might even be the first time he knew she was missing.

He thought oh no, they will kill me if it tell them I left her asleep on a sand dune.

So he quickly says they took her to the hotel and then gets his friends to agree.

All of them expecting she will turn up.

And she never has.

Now how to get out of the lie.  That gets tough.

Well if it's true( we never know whats true with so many rumours ) about grilling them 11 hours a day in hot and cold rooms, I would say that would be torture and they wouldn't be the first person to admit to a crime they didn't do.

Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.

I think their original story may have been a knee jerk reaction. You figure, they were the last ones with her, if something in fact "bad happened" they probably discussed the story, then were confronted earlier then they expected, and maybe one or all of them messed up their planned story. It is also possible they hadnt had time to get the "kinks" out of the story before confronted. Then faced with some evidence they made it up, are now trying to make it fit some way.
In any case they lied, and to keep up a lie this long while facing jail time is odd at any age. That is the main reason I do think they had something to do with it. If you were just covering simple drug use, sneaking out, or whatever, thats one thing. They have to realize by now thats the least of their problem. So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?

 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?

Right but they haven't admitted to a crime yet? Why? My best guess is that the the penalty for whatever they did is worse than the interrogations, otherwise they would have already confessed in order to make them stop.

Lots of guessing today, proves one things nothing in this one is fact.

No, in fact we often took our children on trips. We made them obey the laws there too.

Good question, I thought the police were not allowed to share information.
And where are their lawyers?

amen iquitos...the FACT is we don't KNOW much

Well we need to look for motivation,  Deepak may have changed his story because he may have wanted to distance himself and mostly his little brother from this case.  So what better way to say we dropped Joran and Natalee off, and drove away.  That is one possibility. You gonna have to refresh me on what the previous story was of Joran leaving Nat hysterical or sleeping on the beach?

Who said they sent her there to do illegal things? YOu are being a bit presumptous there dont you think?  They might have just let her go because everyone else was going and they didn't want her to miss out.  No parent I know would send their child to a foreign country for the sole purpose of drinking and gambling.

And thinking along those lines, in a typical teenage fashion, doesn't JVS want to get in trouble for the least transgression.  It's like saying, "Yes, Mom, I did drink a beer, but I didn't get drunk."  

But that doesn't shed any light on where NH is now.

Most normal kids are going to do illegal things.  I grew up in a middle class neighborhood and most of my friends were all middle-highlass.  We were always allowed to go to Panama City Beach, unchaperoned, senior cruise, it happens, what Nats parents and Jorans parent allowed them to do is not unusual in any kind of way.

We dont, and that is the problem, that we dont know as much as we think/or may want to believe that we know.....that is what is so hard

I agree. I mean he was running from cameras after being questioned. He knew this last time they saw him hiding in the bushes. He still didnt come forward right away, it wasnt until he KNEW they saw him he came to the gate. He then had two choices. Either invite them in and disspell any rumors they are hiding something, or turn them away and keep the rumor burning. Plus she said she was natalees mom, cameras rolling. Come on, common sense is you talk to her mother.

I agree with Iquitos. I'm sorry, but this is not the issue. It doesn't matter whether Joran or Natalee were good little bunnies or bad little bunnies, under someone else's notion of how teenagers should act. All that matters is what happened on the night Natalee disappeared.

JUST DON'T YELL. OKAY, PODNER?

Hi all :)

The only reason that I can see that these boys haven't cracked yet is because if they do confess, any of them, they know that what they are living in right now is going to be what they will be living in for along time to come. With their stories changing many times, I can't help but still think they know what happened to Natalee, whether accidental or on purpose.

Also, I'm sure that their lawyers have instructed them, "no body...no evidence...no conviction...hang in there...don't talk to anyone"

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states[/quote]

NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!![/quote]  

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too

I think it is ridiculous that people keep making a big deal out of breaking the law in regards to drinking etc - teens all over U. S. are drinking in highschool at parties - many of these parties are done even with the parents full knowledge - and all of these kids are underage - since our drinking age is 21! Have you people not heard of the problem on college campuses - underage drinking is all over! Why do you think this group from Alabama went to Aruba! I think it is crazy to come down on Joran for what kids in the U.S. do all the time - as for the gambling - well that seems to be a way of life there with the casinos and all - and plenty of the U.S. young people ingage in this thru Vegas, and on line gambling - betting on sports etc - we should not be so judgemental about the Aruban way of life in regards to these kids.

Good points, UGAMom.

hey hannie...
have u had your coffee??? :roll:

Not when the law has your son and wont even talk to you about it.  He was REALLY nice.  She even appreciated it.  If Greata and someone came to my yard screaming out, I would be hesitant to talk, just for sake of the investigation.  I beleive he did that because they are both in the dark from le.

This whole 'quote' thing is neet-o.
I wonder how many quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes I can have on one post!
Some of you people are little more than well-wishing sob-sisters.
I love wading through 57 pages of you jagbags discussing what your children had for breakfast and what they are allowed to watch on tv before I can find some useful info.
Thanks loads.

BTW: Anyone remember the missing girl?

NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!![/quote]  

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too[/quote]

Odd I never found foxwoods to be that way, the area all the way down to rebecca's steakhouse is almost resort town like. Almost gives off an ambiance like the Pocono's.

Now comes the part where someone calls me a troll.
Sound the alert, idiots.
 :lol:

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.  maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room.  dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations.  they are very orderly and private.  and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.

Paul Reynolds.. NH Uncle will be on FOX at noon..

Yes just now, a very strong one :lol:

Thats also possible. i think though I would have spoken to her also. They had the opportinity to have a "mediator" of sorts with Greta there. It doesnt matter at this point, it seems to have been a win win situation for them both.

 

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too[/quote]

Odd I never found foxwoods to be that way, the area all the way down to rebecca's steakhouse is almost resort town like. Almost gives off an ambiance like the Pocono's.[/quote]

well then we have gone there different ways guy.

I know I cant eat much today, especially fatty foods, and I am so ill because I WANT MY PANCAKES!!!  It sucks!

Yeah, Jorans mother seemed really touched by Beth, and Beth looked like she had just saw a ghost.  Bless her heart.

In fact UGA, the key to this mystery is that perhaps we need to think like teenagers--not adults and not criminals.

Chances really are that this was just a typical teenage meeting that went horribly wrong some how.  Joran sees a cute girl at the casino and knows (even if not specifically invited) that she will be at the club later that night.  They meet, dance, and decide to keep visiting after closing time.

It is her last night on the island, so they can't just say see you tomorrow.  

I don't think he needed drugs to get her to leave with him.

Yes they might have been involved.  Maybe not.

One minute they are leaving the club to spend time together--two young kids on the way to bright, bright futures.

By the time the group was to leave the hotel, something bad happened.


Such a tragedy.

It was an all inclusive trip, with no *real* supervision. They knew this stuff was going to be available to them and unfortunatley for some it was probably their first experience with drinking and freedom. I know this is a wake up call for me because I probably would have let my child go too!!

Oh please.  You're not a troll, you're just a little, shall we say, abrupt?

troll   :x

Good morning, Monkeys.  What's goin on?

I also found it very nice of JVS mom to have hugged BHT and kissed her cheek.. shows compassion.

Same old same old. And it this case that sucks.

iquitos wrote:




You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some clothes on

Not a troll, but perhaps rude.

But hey, at least you recognized it's all about bgcntry72 and gave him/her their needed props.  :wink:

or maybe he s just sweatin his nutz off over all this......

Morning wench.. well afternoon here..lol  :)

FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?

I just wanted to quote you!!!

I got your point no more quotes or fighting with others

i would have cracked along time ago.....maybe the turned up the pressure and now they are getting "disinformation" from them.. if all you know .. is all you know.. there s not much left to tell...

TRUE TRUE that is a good point!  Didnt think of that...

am aruba.  another american busted.  nice way to get back. start arresting americans doing nasty things on the island.

  http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am22jun05.pdf

I think that is believable up to the point of murder. That seems to be the switch that triggers unpredictable behaviors and answers.

i'm torn on this bgcntry - we know so little it's hard to make a real assessment. although the fact that no confession has been forthcoming lends credibility to your thoughts, it's not us who are facing 20 or so years in prison.

I agree with both of you, I think there are people here making a mountain out of a mole hill on this topic.

I mean, give me a break...how would any of you honestly act answering the gate to Mrs. Twitty under the circumstances. He wouldn't have known who the hell was at his gate. I'm sure he was flabergasted when he realized it was Mrs. twitty....last thing anyone would expect I'm sure. But hey!! He invited her in! Would any of you honestly have done that or would you have backed away and went back intp the house?  :roll:

I wouldnt like being battered for 11 hours either..it is possbile something bigger happened.. perhaps they know that or they dont.. if they do.. that could mean they are scared shitless to talk. perhaps they were threatend or someone could have threatened their families. who knows..nobody knows anything.. how frustrating

I totally agree that by now if they knew they would have talked - Joran was more of a spoiled teen not a tough street savy teen - either this goes much much higher up and they are in fear for telling or gee maybe they don't know - duh?????????? has anyone actually thought that??

Sounds normal to me that you say in those circumstances "No cameras"'
What would you do? I don`t think ìt`s the same way in the US that parents of a suspect invite parents or media in their house in the same situation!

gunshots in paradise, is that a buffet song?

This is my last day at this law firm and believe it or not, I have a project to complete so I will not get to hang out here all day like I have been.  I liked my job until recently...but now I don't seem to want to do it...lol.  Anyway, I'll be in and out.  Hoping for some good news soon.

 

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too[/quote]

Odd I never found foxwoods to be that way, the area all the way down to rebecca's steakhouse is almost resort town like. Almost gives off an ambiance like the Pocono's.[/quote]

Very confused here.  What does Foxwoods have to do with Natalee.

Been reading up from last night. I happen to agree with you but I think NH was the wrong girl.

With all the media that has been hounding them at their house?

There would have been at least 4 people at his gate and one has a big camera. Also he would not have known who greta is in all probability. Very slim chance.

It just said he was born in America. You don't really want to get back at us. We just want Natalee found. You do that and we'll come down in droves!!

in about 10 minutes NH Uncle Paul Reynolds is going to be on FOX if anyone cares to watch.. they are going to question him as to JVS story changing again.. maybe he has some insight on something new? Maybe not...!

What do you mean by wrong girl?

Today at 11:48 AM, I'm thinking that the previous "he killed her" statement is true and that the police know what happened, but do not have enough evidence.  What they know is based on a third person account that is not an actual witness to the event. It was toned down to "something bad happened" as not to influence the investigation.

Now its 11:49, and after second thought, I'm really not so sure.

Reading the statement, if it is true, the Natalee's family should questioned. Eventhough they might be innocent. At the same time there must not be excluded the presence of the people that came to Aruba for the Soul & Beach Festival.

I see I am thinking like several others of you here  --  because 'nothing to hide' is relative.  

The thing I keep thinking about is that I am reading he said "she was sleeping and hysterical" or something like that when he left her on the beach.  Avoiding the obvious contradiction here, I can easily see him trying to throw moves on her  and her winding up crying and telling him to 'leave her alone'  'go away' , things like that. Now, he thinks, in addition to being in trouble for sneaking out, clubbing, and drinking...   this girl may claim attempted rape.

so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....

 

Yesterday's lead story in the same publication was about thearrest of an american with a bunch of coke on his person transitting the airport.  may be coincidence but could be start of campaign.  you want crime on aruba, well look what your people are doing here.

IF any of the four suspects actually know what happened to Natalee then there can only be one reason why they are not breaking....they know for a fact that if they wait this thing out they will get off.  The reason the stories change is because they are lies which are morphing to follow the path of least resistance.

Even the FBI guy on CNN yesterday said that they are going to blow this case if they dont find a body, even in Dutch law systems if thee is no body hard time trying them.

After the running to my car situation. nuff said. He isn't a big fan of the big camera.

Comment
Aruba: Natalee Holloway Would Have Been a One Day Story if Her Name was Lateefah
by: Steve Yuhas
Michael Jackson was found not guilty, Scott Peterson is on death row, there is no “missing” bride to be and Nancy Grace doesn’t have much to talk (or cry) about so it was wonderful when the story of a missing American in Aruba fell right into cable news show laps. The problem with the coverage that 18-year-old Natalee Holloway’s “disappearance” is generating is not that it is being covered, after all it is a story when a person goes missing, but it has been at the top of virtually every newscast for over a month and even I (normally not a skeptical race carder) am wondering if Natalee was named Lateefah (African for gentle or pleasant) if the cable news world would be fixated on her disappearance.
Holloway went missing on May 30th, it is now almost the end of June and still her disappearance is leading the news as if President Bush did not announce he will visit Vietnam, the Congress remains embattled over nominations, American cities are on the verge of bankruptcy and that there is something particularly special about Natalee Holloway. In what should have been a one or two day story where nothing new has been learned, except that the black men taken into custody initially have been released and no charges were conferred against them, the media is fixated on Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot – a 17-year-old being held along with three others in Aruba.
Van der Sloot is the son of an Arubian judge so a judge from a neighboring island, Curacao, was assigned to a case that is quickly growing out of control. Justice officials in Aruba say it is not unusual that in high profile cases that judges come from neighboring islands to assist local judges and keeping Van der Sloot in custody will give police time to either rule him out or create a case against him. Holloway, from Alabama, went to Aruba, a safe island that boasted only one murder in all of 2004, to celebrate her graduation from high school with 124 classmates and 40 chaperones. News appearances by her family suggest that Holloway is the epitome of virtue and that whatever befell her had to be the work of sinister forces, but one has to wonder – why Aruba?As stores sell out of yellow ribbons in her hometown and FBI agents and all of the resources of the Arubian government (including the Prime Minister of the Dutch colony, Nelson Oduber, who told a television audience that finding Holloway was the “number one goal” of the island) are focused on finding the US citizen questions concerning what Holloway was doing the night she presumably vanished have to be asked. It is not enough for Nancy Grace to cry every night or for Greta Van Susteren to take up residence in Aruba to cover the story – no we need more so every night for the last month no news means a full hour of talking about the same thing over and over again.
This is what we know: Natalee Holloway was visiting Aruba, she was staying at the Holiday Inn and on the night before she was to return to the United States she went to a Boyz II Men concert at Surfside beach, stayed until closing time (1:00am) at a bar called Carlos ‘N Charlie’s and was wearing a blue-and-green striped, low-cut blouse, denim miniskirt and sandals. That’s it – that is all we know yet every cable network has not only followed the story, but updates us every hour on the hour with no news to report and reporters are now making the peaceful and safe island of Aruba out to be something akin to visiting Mexico without sufficient bribe money for police officers.
Holloway is consistently described by news outlets as a “teenager” as if she was not of legal age or she had just received her driver’s permit. It is true that she is eighteen, but in Aruba that is old enough to get into bars and clubs and drink the night away (witnesses say that Holloway was drinking the night she disappeared and throughout her stay); Holloway is a missing person, a grown woman, and the idea that this case has become so blown out of proportion baffles me. There is nothing significant about it insofar as a grown woman is missing, there are tons of them all over the United States and the world, but for some reason the blonde hair and consistent statements of her family that she was a “good girl” and her disappearing is “out of character” for her continue to get air play.
I’m not so naïve not to understand that when the news is slow and when your fame and fortune depends on major, high profile cases falling into your lap so that your angry and vitriolic tone can help boost ratings for CNN that you don’t jump at the chance to cover and cry over a story (read: Nancy Grace), but for Greta Van Susteren to cover the case with such vigor is overkill for someone who typically balances out the sensational with the standard and mundane, yet important, legal issues of the day. Something has to explain what it is about Holloway that makes her disappearance so special and the disappearance of so many people that are just normal every day people that they make the headlines so often.
There is no other explanation for the coverage of Natalee Holloway’s disappearance from Aruba and the continuous coverage of it other than the fact that she is a pretty white girl who presumably went missing in Aruba at the suspected hands of an important justice official. Had Natalee been black and had she went missing in Jamaica, I hardly think that Nancy or Greta would be crying (well Nancy would cry because that is what makes Nancy Grace who she is) or taking up residence there. We’ve seen this story play out too many times for me not to believe that there is something about how a presumed victim looks that drives the coverage and that is a sad admission for me to make.
Holloway is a grown woman who went to Aruba because she wanted to have a good time, yes there were chaperones, but where were they when she was in a bar drinking with folks she may have known only for a few days or a week? Where were the chaperones when night fell and the bars closed knowing that she had a plane to catch the next morning to check on her to make sure she was okay? The chaperone to student ratio during her trip was better than the guest to staff rate at a five star hotel – surely someone should have noticed that she was not there. More importantly though: why did Holloway leave, as witnesses have accounted many times, in a car with people if she was the virtuous girl that she was when the bar closed when she should have gone to bed?These are questions that the news simply won’t ask a grieving family looking for their loved one, but someone has to start asking why this story is getting so much attention. Holloway is a grown woman who may have left Aruba on her own accord or may have been the victim of foul play – either way the story is old and tiresome and it almost makes me miss the days of slow speed helicopter coverage of the Michael Jackson convoy arriving at court or the Peterson jury deliberation clock that appeared when the jury was in session.
I’m not a race baiter and not someone who typically looks for trends concerning race, beauty or victim- hood, but in this case there is no other explanation for the amount of coverage Natalee Holloway received for not making her plane back to Mississippi from Aruba. I hate to say it, but there may be something to the notion that it pays to have white skin when it comes to disappearing because I don’t know the face of a single missing black or brown person, but I know plenty of white ones and the one I have seen for a full month has been Natalee Holloway.
I hope they find out what happened to her, if anything, and that she return home safely, but if that is not the case I find myself hoping that one day I’ll recognize a missing black woman when she disappears and hear her mother’s pleas for a safe return in the same volume as I’ve heard for a grown woman from Alabama.

does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?

Rob wrote:



Sorry Rob I have to disagree on that. We are not used to have cameras in front of our nose,I know i as a dutch would react excactly the same, and by the way I don`t think it is typically dutch .

That seems like a likely scenario.  But still doesn't lead to where she is.

iquitos, there appears on the face of it to be roughly 7 or 8 major crimes committed in the last 23 days.... thats one evry two to three days.. wonder whats coming next? there is something going on....!!!!

See I dont see what she would be hysterical about? It leaves alot of room for speculation. Plus like you said the obvious contradcition you cant sleep and be hysterical at the same time. Unless she was convulsing or something like that. Still though I wouldnt consider that hysterics.

the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?

I would like to slap the sh*t out of steve yuhas.

Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:

 if my son were innocent i would want the whole world to hear my side of it... ms twitty is getting a lotta face time... vd sloot missed his opportunity....

This whole thing is nuts, who in the US is going to show up at suspects parents house with the media and expect to be invivted in? I understand the missing girls mothers feelings, but you don't have the right to just show up in this situation. They are trying to protect their son, innocent or guilty. All of this the I'm an and I am gonna American Push you Around Syndrome" This is their country, Americans are guests, the FBI has no business down there. When you travel you follow the rules in the country that you visit. We don't import US law to Aruba. I hope they get it all resolved, but this is not the way to shove our Tabloid News people through the doors all over the world. Insane.

I know Aruba is a drug stop over becuase of it location. We don't want crime on your island. I know the DEA works closely with your government. We only want Natalee returned. If you can help with that, you'd be helping Aruba.

It seems with the way information does not flow from LE that would jeopardize JVDS even more. 116 days of being held would be a drop in the bucket and MR. VDS would be held then for sure. A media show would surely qualify for obstruction.

If she was given some drug, say she freaked out, passed out, and that's when he leaves.  Maybe calls the 4th suspect, because that's where he got the drug, and the 4th one takes over.  Finds NH unconscious  or ? and either arranges for her to be hidden, taken off the island or disposed of.

Rob wrote:

if my son were innocent i would want the whole world to hear my side of it... ms twitty is getting a lotta face time... vd sloot missed his opportunity....


That`s because in the US with such cases it is 'standard'to appear in the media , we as dutch don`t work that way sorry so we`re not used to the same mediathing as americans are.

Ditto. I was taken in and questioned to determine the details of  terrible accident involving my own child.  How's that for double pressure? :)  And I remembered every detail. Still do, ten years later. And the story has never varied.

Morning All! I just came from Mountain Brook (the dentist, ugghh) and it is a beautiful sight. Nearly every mailbox and business has a yellow ribbon, it was very touching....

I tried to get some of the Hope For Natalee bracelets, but they were sold out. I am supposed to call tommorow to see if the new shipment is in yet....

Any new news or rumors?

Looking forward to seeing what this 'JVDS changing stories' is all about. Most likely a rehash of what's already out there.

Having said that, I'm still wondering why the focus of the media attention is on JVDS. What about the Kalpoes? Why haven't we heard more 'seedy' details about them? Why haven't his parents been followed by cameras? Haven't they been in contact with their mother (from what I can gather, the parents are divorced and the mother remarried)? Wouldn't someone visit them when they were detained at the police station and later the prison?

Intuitively, whatever 'sources' the MSM have, they must be pointing towards JVDS being the primary suspect. I can't believe that the MSM would be taking the huge risk of identifying him as the primary suspect, without some solid basis.

The more we follow this case, the more we realize we don't know anything *sigh* just had to get that off my chest.

Right, but these girls weren't victims of a crime, and probably had been drinking. I can easily see them forgetting or just simply being misinformed or making a mistake because of being on tv (the tzxi comment for intsance).  It makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that they are lying about mundane details.

 

IF YOU FOLKS DID NOT CATCH IT, THIS TOO WAS IN TODAY'S AM ARUBA.  IT IS THE ONLY STORY ON NATALEE IN THIS PUBLICATION TODAY,  AN ARUBA US PUBLISHED IN ENGLISH AND AND PRESUMABLY PASSED OT TO TOURISTS ON THE ISLAND.  NOT A PRETTY MESSAGE.BTW I AM NOT YELLING. THIS IS SO YOU CAN SEE ME BETTER.  IF I YELL YOU WILL NOTICE NO MATTER WHICH CASE.

ladies and gentleman.. i would like to set the record straight on this issue... first of all at the airport there are two or three planes that have that dish thing on top. they search the skies for drug trafficers. it is not an easy as you might think to bring drugs in to aruba.. second they have a coast guard, they have a huge ship with giant guns on the front..its not so easy to get drugs into the country...you can find drugs anywhere, but at least i see them making an effort to keep em out....

written by steve yuhas. that's why I wanted to slap the sh*t out of him

Aruba is finally playing the race card in its latest addition of is newspaper.   I was a supporter of this Island, but events over the last few weeks and now this article lend me to the belief that our tourism dollars should go else where.   Articles like this  give that crazy loon Dee Fine amo.

I've got to agree with Hannie on this.  No one knows what it's like to have national and international media descend on your community unless you've been there.  I've been on a story where this happened for an extended period of time.  It is a huge presence and far different than having one camera clicking!!!  It's a huge invasion even for tough Amercan cities.  And most of them not great reporters doing in-depth coverage of a story.  They are there for soundbites and quick fixes.

Agree completely.

Here's my worry....

If there is a possibility the Natalee is still alive, it would seem that the local police, FBI and the families are not persuing it. For example if there was a small hint of a kidnaping and a trip off the island, I would think we would hear about the inquires and searches conducted elsewhere.  I would find this possibility almost more horrific than an a possible kiiling. No trail, no leads, have to search everywhere, continual horror for Natalee that would probably eventually lead to her death anyway, possibily years later.

Everyone seems to be focused on Aruba, so that leads me to believe that the police, fbi and possibly the family believe Natalee is no longer alive and that a body needs to be found to make the charges stick.

I believe the report from over a week ago, that "something bad happened" and "he will lead us to the body" were actually correct, but someone told the suspect/s to shut-up.

I would think the 4th suspect either supplied the drugs or a boat, or both. I believe the body was dumped in the ocean, possibly a couple miles out. That would provide the suspects with the convidence to shut up. Perhaps let them know a water search is under way with "special equip", and maybe someone will get nervious.

As for the changing stories, it make it look like they are covering up a more serious issue like a death.

If they really "sold" or traded her for a drug/gambling debt, it would be an easy story to tell. Just say that they were "on the beach, and guys with guns took her away and threatened to kill us if we talked". No need for real details, just enough to show that a death did not occur and put the authorities on another path with no real details

icey

Possible, but again this is all speculation at this point  :?
The 4th suspect I dont know, everything I have read about him, seems as if he overheard something, or just covered for them. Maybe there is more to it, but I would have to think as an older person (hes 26 right) with a child he would have far more to lose. That leads me to believe he would sing like a bird to cover his own butt.

Has anyone heard from DJTAYLOR she hasn't posted since Monday, just wondering if she had her baby...

I disagree - I had a nasty situation happen last Fall where a matter I was involved in was on the front page of our local paper every day and I was being called by the press to comment - I refused because, although I could have defended myself, I felt any discussion in the public had a reasonable chance of being twisted further against me - by the way, I got the last laugh.