Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) => Natalee Breaking News Archive => Topic started by: Catriana on June 22, 2005, 06:33:11 AM



Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Catriana on June 22, 2005, 06:33:11 AM
A new thread for news and discussions. NEW name for thread.. RBN #...

Please try to stay on topic.  If you feel the need to "chit chat" please feel free to use our new "CHIT CHAT" topic while you wait for news.

PLEASE visit the link below with Tom and Red's WEBLOG for summaries of the information gathered here.

www.scaredmonkeys.com
Please be sure to read the TROLLS announcement. Thank you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A gentle reminder, that at times we get heated and angry over something we read. Perhaps something someone else says. When you feel yourself typing out things you would "never say to a person if they were standing in front of you", well.. that is the time to step away.

Get a coffee, watch some TV, hug your hubby/wife, take a walk, take a shower.... take a break. Go watch the sunset.

This is a highly emotional issue that has dragged on for weeks (and might go for weeks more).

Remember, we are all real people with real feelings. Sometimes, when we type out "words" they aren't taken in the same context that we meant them.

Give others the same latitude you would like them to give you. Don't assume the worst, look for how that person could have meant something other than the worst.

Life's too short. We are not lost... our loved ones know where we are.

Be thankful.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nitjus4fun on June 22, 2005, 06:58:57 AM
For anyone wanting to make donations to support the Hollway family in their quest to find Natalee......

Contributions may be made at any AmSouth Bank or by mail to Natalee Holloway Trust, AmSouth Bank, P.O. Box 11426, Birmingham, AL 35202. Specify on the check that the donation is for the search effort.


Title: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 07:12:12 AM
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: nitjus4fun on June 22, 2005, 07:19:14 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base



That is likely the best review of that E-mail I have seen.... ALL GREAT POINTS.....


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 22, 2005, 07:19:24 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


I would agree...I think that e-mail is a hoax. I was discussing it last night it was copied and pasted with no header information or IP addresses and no way to even verify if it came from Aruba.


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: veme on June 22, 2005, 07:31:37 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base



Good points. Some Hindu's do name God, as do all Muslims.
Still I think the e-mail is bogus.
However I do find some of the references to his family's distress troubling. His father's high-blood pressure, mother crying all the time, his older bother trying to reassure him -  it has a ring of truth.
Very disturbing. :?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 07:38:48 AM
from hasibokos this am - largely a recap of what's been discussed -

Beth Holloway meets with the van der Sloots: Hasibokso.com has learned that the mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth Holloway, met with Paulus and Anita van der Sloot on Tuesday.  According to Novum (Dutch press), Beth Holloway did not go into details afterwards, she only described the meeting with Jorans parents as “positive”.

UPDATE 32:The Dutch media is also reporting that 17 (volunteering) search experts from Texas EquuSearch will arrive in Aruba on Wednesday to search for Natalee Holloway. According to the newsreports, the experts are coming with dogs, scuba gear and sonar instruments. One of the volunteers, Joe Houston, said that the fact that they are going to search for Natalee does not mean that the search efforts until now have been conducted poorly. According to Houston, they have a lot of experience with searching for persons who are dead or alive. In this case the volunteers will try to find Natalee to bring the family some peace. Depending on the donations, the volunteers will remain at least one week in Aruba. The Aruban government doesn’t have any problems with the volunteers that, according to spokesperson Ruben Trapenburg, will be treated as tourist. Trapenburg declared that the specialized equipment that the volunteers are bringing is definitely welcome. Mariaine Croes from the Public Prosecutioin indicated that the volunteers will play, just as the FBI, only an advisory role. The head of the investigation will remain in the hands of the Aruban police who have to present anytime some (potential) evidence is found. Otherwise these will not be permissible in court.


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: north-of-north on June 22, 2005, 07:39:25 AM
Quote from: "nitjus4fun"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base



That is likely the best review of that E-mail I have seen.... ALL GREAT POINTS.....



Yes!
I went to sleeep thinking of this.
And I had seen on one of the brothers ticklesites, I think, as religion was Hindu...
And thats a good point on the spelling of the name.


Title: morning all
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 07:58:18 AM
Good morning everyone! Anything new happening over night? The search team arrives today right? Anyone know if they immediately begin their search today or will it be tomorrow? Just wondering....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 08:02:24 AM
Good morning momto5. According to CNN the search team was delayed due to problems with chartering a plane and restrictions on bringing the search dogs in. Arrival now expected on Friday


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 08:04:23 AM
momto5 - they plan to meet with aruban authorities to go over what's been done, etc.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/21/aruba.holloway/index.html?section=cnn_latest

this article from cnn this am explains about the search, the legal brief filed by natalee's family and about certain experts brought in to observe the interrogations.

edited to make link clickable - hope i don't blow the margins.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
Good morning momto5. According to CNN the search team was delayed due to problems with chartering a plane and restrictions on bringing the search dogs in. Arrival now expected on Friday

Ok thanks for the update much appreciated!!
Been trying to keep up here, but its hard with so many posts on the board. I think Im doing alright tho.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 08:09:44 AM
tkubi7 - i'm confused. is CNN reporting that and have not yet updated their site?

thx


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 08:15:10 AM
Fox News is going to have someone in Aruba of the search team from Texas on in just minutes. Guess CNN was wrong about their postponing til Friday!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 08:17:24 AM
thx anothermonkey for clarifying that because as you can see, the story above says they were to arrive last night!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 08:19:04 AM
Quote from: "another monkey"
Fox News is going to have someone in Aruba of the search team from Texas on in just minutes. Guess CNN was wrong about their postponing til Friday!

Thank you. I thought I heard on fox they were taking the red eye. I guess they did after all. Hope they can find her!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 08:20:51 AM
mojo, here's the link if I did it right.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/22/aruba.holloway/


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 08:24:26 AM
Did wonderwoman post the rest of the email lastnight?
When I left lastnight she only posted half.
Please let me know I don't want to wade through 300 posts to find it


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 08:26:50 AM
Quote from: "CNN"
Meanwhile, Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told an Aruba television station that she had met by chance with the parents of 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, one of four suspects in custody.
...
Twitty said she met Van Der Sloot's mother, Anita, while handing out prayer cards and fliers on behalf of her daughter in the parents' neighborhood, and she was invited into the family's home.

Huh?  Greta said she took Beth to the VDS home  :?:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Did wonderwoman post the rest of the email lastnight?
When I left lastnight she only posted half.
Please let me know I don't want to wade through 300 posts to find it


Yes, RL, she did.  

::edit:   AMiller has provided a link on page 2, post #3)   edit::


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 08:30:13 AM
okay perhaps equusearch have the team in charge of liason with local authorities to plan how things will work and where they should look etc and the rest of the 17 man team, dogs, equipment will arrive on friday and hit the ground running?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/aruba_missing_teen
;_ylt=At6AWzhkL2mYK9jM1yCgNl_a_JYv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

this url is so long it blows the margins - here's the relevant part of the article - Texas Group to Look for Ala. Teen in Aruba

paras 7 and 8

Upon arrival, the team planned to meet with Aruban authorities and
FBI officials to review past search routes and plot new areas, Huston said.

Aruban authorities accompanied by FBI observers have scoured the island on foot, in vehicles and using a helicopter with infrared equipment at night. Tourists and Aruban civilian volunteers also have helped, but none has turned up any trace of Holloway.


Title: Emails questionable at best
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 08:34:31 AM
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 08:37:42 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Did wonderwoman post the rest of the email lastnight?
When I left lastnight she only posted half.
Please let me know I don't want to wade through 300 posts to find it



I think this link should take you there.  I found it for someone else last night. :)   BTW, those were good points about the spelling and religion...

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=680


Title: passing out prayer cards ...
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 08:39:19 AM
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "CNN"
Meanwhile, Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told an Aruba television station that she had met by chance with the parents of 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, one of four suspects in custody.
...
Twitty said she met Van Der Sloot's mother, Anita, while handing out prayer cards and fliers on behalf of her daughter in the parents' neighborhood, and she was invited into the family's home.

Huh?  Greta said she took Beth to the VDS home  :?:


yeah she was passing out prayer cards and she happened on this house while Greta was filming and it happened to be the van der sloot residence.  what perfidy


Title: "By Chance" parent meeting
Post by: harleymom on June 22, 2005, 08:39:32 AM
Yesterday, it was "by chance" Greta and Beth went to the VDS home, it wasn't planned, it wasn't pre-arranged so "by chance" is a fair wording.

I'm sure they have had plenty of folks, media etc standing at their home and shouting for attention.
But when Beth identified herself, Mr VDS was quick to come over and immediately asked them to come in, Beth and Greta didn't have to ask, he opened the gate and invited them in. They were just asking to give him a prayer card.
Understandably he asked for no cameras etc...given the situation I would to.
While I would love to have heard the details, even seen the conversation  I understand why this should be private.  Sometimes I forget this isn't a Law&Order episode, real people, real emotions and a real case that can't be jeopardize by sharing every detail and conversation...But to be a fly on the walls! :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Did wonderwoman post the rest of the email lastnight?
When I left lastnight she only posted half.
Please let me know I don't want to wade through 300 posts to find it



I think this link should take you there.  I found it for someone else last night. :)   BTW, those were good points about the spelling and religion...

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=680


Thanks but I couldn't wait and just went looking though 20 pages. I didn't think anbody would get back to me that quick :lol:
About the email, whether it's real or not. I'm starting to believe that these boys had nothing to do with this.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 08:44:13 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Did wonderwoman post the rest of the email lastnight?
When I left lastnight she only posted half.
Please let me know I don't want to wade through 300 posts to find it

Yes she did. I think its on page 36 or 37 on the last thread. Its in that general vicinity.


Title: the bombshell email
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 08:44:28 AM
here is the entire text of the purported email posted by wonder woman last night  its procedence and authenticity are unkown  there is one more follow up piece posted in the previous board

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:34 pm    Post subject:   
dated 6/5/2005


How are you i hope you and your family is fine.(NAME DELETED) is better i tell you the truth , before it will be a shock for you later, but i think it will be a shock for you rightnow.
The missing girl natalee hollaway,I spoke to her , sunday she left with me , my brother and a friend from carlos n' charlies , it was my car like the news said she got in to, I am one of the persons of intrest , i am one the the students they've questioned and released as they claimed in the news .
Let see where to start i don't even know where to begin these last days where so crazy for me i'm very tired haven't slept good in days : The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school tomorrow i don't think so . well she begged him and he still said yes i'll be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to carlos (we all went out without or parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance with her my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he responded(by then natalee was VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car , and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away, so then we were just talking etc, in the car and then she said she wanted to see sharks ,it was by the lighthouse she saw them before that can we go , my friend said ok ,deepak lets go. so on my my to the lighthouse there was music playing and noone talking for a while when i looked in the backmirror my friend and natalee were kissing and touching (his hands etc was in her blouse but nothing nude or against natalees will ) so my brother siad just leave them for a while untill we get to the lighthouse, when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights) so after like 10 min my friend is telling me that natalee fell asleep i said you kidding just wake her up and tell ask her if its holiday inn for sure she is staying so my friend woke her up and confirmed with natalee she was staying at the holiday inn, so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no. she he stepped in the car and while i was driving away i saw natalee walking towards the lobby and a gentleman with a walkie talkie and black clothes approached her and i think they were talking and i had never seen natalee again sinds.(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby) it was around 2.15 am .monday i came to work normally 4- 11 pm after work i called my friend i said whats up he said ok i'm at the raddison casino meet me there , i said ok so i went there we played poker , we had some drinks and chat and then we had enough and decided that this casino was booring lets go to whyndham hotel casino . so i drove to whyndham and as i was parking my friends dad called him and said the police is at his home with some family members its about the girl you guys went out with yesterday , so my friend said wait there i be there, so we rushed at my friends home and there was the police and nataless family and it was a nightmare sinds then. the police asked us if we knew this girl showed us a picture we said yes thats her , they said she was missing and eyewitness say she was the last seen with you guys . so they asked a few more questions and we said we don't understand we left her at holiday inn lobby drive way how could she dissapear and then natalees stepfather jumped and said ''yes thats because after she went with you assholes she lost'' and then my friends father jumped and said thats enough you can't talk to the kids like that this is not the us your out of you juristiction this is not the way i want you people out of my yard i know the law (my friends father is e judge) so afterwards another family member of natalee suggested to the police if we can id the security gard we said ok. we went there there was no suck security working there as we discribed. so then we were just standing in the lobby there were questions etc. asked by other members , and then me and my friend walked to the car natalees mom was sitting and we said mam you have to believe us we did not do anything with you daughter, she was crying and said i don't believe you 2 , i promise you i will make you life a living hell because of this . anwyas we said we were sorry again ans that we will help in any way possible.i went home 7 pm tuesday, i was then called 2 pm by the police for questioning i went gave a statement they said i was a witness no suspect the same went for my brother and my friend they were questionded and had to sign their statement also , the checked my car and i was clear to go , wednesday i was called again to show them how i drove the route that day ( i could refuse was my right i still decided to go , as did my brother and friend ) the drove us one by one and then we were free to go again.thursday morning my friend called me (he goes to aruba international school and his mother is a teacher there and he is a straight A student ) in panic and said there a re family members here at school and they are sharing flyers and the flyers said : GIRL KIDNAPPED ASK JORAN VANDER SLOOT (thats my friends name ) the principle asked them to leave and they did .so thats my part of the story yesterday and today it was quiet no treathen phoncalls what we got before and i won't mention the crazythings the newspapers etc. writes about us its to much to mention. at home my mom is losing it she is cryimg constantly , my dad bloodpressure got high also his hands are red , my friends home is a disaster also ,his mom is crying constantly also his dad is pretty cool he calmes us down and talks to us also not to worry , my brother is preety cool but on his face you see he is worried , my friend is pretty worried also. i'm pretty worried also , we have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go to the states in july he has a full scholarship. i had to go to vacation also end of this month.many politicians find we should be locked up rightnow.We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead , she was seen with 2 guys , her hair is cut and is red now ,she was in a crackhouse etc, we were arrested and , my car is by the police we confessed to murder and rape, she went in a restaurant to buy food but none of those were true.So (name deleted) that was my part of the story what i said here is the same in my statement,people are saying they are bad guys lock them up , the family is going thru a lot righnow , but what they don't know how the other families feel and how they also have a reputation and carreers etc. because when this all is over they will still be talks that were the 3 guys that had something to do with the kidnap of natalee its a small island.they don't understand the pressure we are having also, if this girl turns up dead we have a problem we were the last seen with her . I lost a lot of friends who think we had to do something with this, many of my friends supported us also brought food etc. for us at home and know we are innocent, we are innocent also we promise i would NEVER hurt anyone in anyway, i would do every everything to help find her thats what we told eveyone also , i would take a bullet to save her and bring her back to her family if i had to so would my friend also.i would never never hurt anyone i'm a very happy and social person who likes to make friends with people and not hurting them


So (NAME DELETED) i will say goodbye now hope you believe me and i pray to god that they find natalee soon and find her well so that this nightmare ends for all of us and they we prove we had nothing to do with this, i hope you pray for all of us say hi to everyone there hope to hear from you soon and may god bless.........

bye bye

Deepak.

Last edited by WonderWoman on Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: wwizard on June 22, 2005, 08:44:47 AM
"PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY"

While trying to reconcile some things I remembered the concept of plausible deniability. This is used by politicians (daily) and athletes (when asked about steroid use). I still think this was a structured event. The dutchguy and the brothers have a bunch of it. Maybe this concept can be used to help you if you get stuck.


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 08:45:35 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


I don't think that it would be that difficult for any person who followed this case to create a letter...and add his/her own "details."  Being that there are so many untrue emails that get forwarded to people on any given day, I would assume that this is just another one of those.  Some kid is out there probably laughing his a** off at so many people devoting so much time and energy to something that isn't even legit.

For those who disagree with me, I apologize...don't berate me, it's my opinion.


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 08:48:20 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: sandy on June 22, 2005, 08:48:37 AM
I have been struck by Beth Twitty's change in demeanor since her visit to the Van Der Sloot home - is there not a maxim somewhere to the effect 'I have met the enemy and the enemy is me' - haven't got that dead on but... - these families are suffering together in this - I have always felt this to be true - Beth is somewhat down - I feel for her.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 08:49:21 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
  Thanks but I couldn't wait and just went looking though 20 pages. I didn't think anbody would get back to me that quick :lol:
About the email, whether it's real or not. I'm starting to believe that these boys had nothing to do with this.



<<< :oops: Sorry, RL!  Not enough coffee yet.  Minutes after posting that "last 8 or so pages" I realized maybe more pages were added after I went to bed.  :oops:   I've put RMiller's link in my edit for others to see.  :oops: >>>

Thanks, RMiller!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 08:49:29 AM
Do you think there should be a thread for that letter, so the people who get on today who didn't get to see it can go read it?  THen they can debate on that thread its authenticity?  I don't know how to create a thread :oops:


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 08:50:15 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


I can't believe the ruckus that this alleged email caused. There are a thousand reasons (check the postings) to doubt the authenticity of this email, and -- even if it were genuine -- it would only represent the OLD story, that the detainees have already discarded.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: sandy on June 22, 2005, 08:50:43 AM
It is hard to be in warrior mode when you have seen the pain of the other side


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 08:51:28 AM
Quote from: "wwizard"
"PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY"

While trying to reconcile some things I remembered the concept of plausible deniability. This is used by politicians (daily) and athletes (when asked about steroid use). I still think this was a structured event. The dutchguy and the brothers have a bunch of it. Maybe this concept can be used to help you if you get stuck.

I was not aware of that!  :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: hope on June 22, 2005, 08:51:51 AM
Twitty's lawyer is no characterizing information sharing as "good," one of the three boys has apparently pointed the finger at Steven G Croes and:

from Riehl World View site


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
I have been struck by Beth Twitty's change in demeanor since her visit to the Van Der Sloot home - is there not a maxim somewhere to the effect 'I have met the enemy and the enemy is me' - haven't got that dead on but... - these families are suffering together in this - I have always felt this to be true - Beth is somewhat down - I feel for her.

I believe it is fair to say all of the mothers whose children are involved in this case, whether the suspects mothers, or Natalees mother are suffering. I am sure no one wants to believe their child is capable of causing so much harm, and anguish to any family. As a mother myself, I know it would be very hard for me to accept a little boy i raised would be capable of anything so horrible. Natalees mom is suffering very much, and her actions are understandable, but I am sure talking with Jorans mother brought home the issue that his mother is upset also.
It in no way excuses the responsibilty of whoever took Natalee and I do believe they were involved. A knee jerk reaction would be to cover your butt, and lie and say you dropped her off at her hotel. But to continue the lie knowing your facing jail time makes no sense unless you are truelly hiding SOMETHING more. Just my opinion anyway.


Title: purported email a script?
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 08:55:51 AM
somebody, possibly a member of this site, has done a good job of summarizing the first version of the events before the alleged change of versions.  we have  one of the security guards telling us that the purported author has recanted the version in his own email.  We do not know for a fact he has.  It is possible the three drafted the email collectively to "validate"  and script their intitial story but that is far-fetched too.  Has this gotten into the MSM?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 08:56:00 AM
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 08:59:21 AM
Joran's mom's statement would be hearsay at best.  I don't know that this qualifies as a new version of the story.  Just an observation.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 08:59:44 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
I have been struck by Beth Twitty's change in demeanor since her visit to the Van Der Sloot home - is there not a maxim somewhere to the effect 'I have met the enemy and the enemy is me' - haven't got that dead on but... - these families are suffering together in this - I have always felt this to be true - Beth is somewhat down - I feel for her.


Yes, it has been a wake-up call to many of us to check our objectivity and to consider the perspectives of the other families involved.

I hope that this new dimension in this relationship of parents gives them all at least a tiny bit of peace and that the energy spent on mutual mistrust can now be turned in a positive direction.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:00:13 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "sandy"
I have been struck by Beth Twitty's change in demeanor since her visit to the Van Der Sloot home - is there not a maxim somewhere to the effect 'I have met the enemy and the enemy is me' - haven't got that dead on but... - these families are suffering together in this - I have always felt this to be true - Beth is somewhat down - I feel for her.

I believe it is fair to say all of the mothers whose children are involved in this case, whether the suspects mothers, or Natalees mother are suffering. I am sure no one wants to believe their child is capable of causing so much harm, and anguish to any family. As a mother myself, I know it would be very hard for me to accept a little boy i raised would be capable of anything so horrible. Natalees mom is suffering very much, and her actions are understandable, but I am sure talking with Jorans mother brought home the issue that his mother is upset also.
It in no way excuses the responsibilty of whoever took Natalee and I do believe they were involved. A knee jerk reaction would be to cover your butt, and lie and say you dropped her off at her hotel. But to continue the lie knowing your facing jail time makes no sense unless you are truelly hiding SOMETHING more. Just my opinion anyway.


I agree.  I feel badly for both mothers.  If my son told me he was innocent; I would believe...it's something that is innate in mothers.  Am I saying JVDS is innocent?  I really don't know, but if we aren't sure of his inocence, I bet his parents will stand behind him 100%.  Who would want to believe their child is guilty of "possible" murder?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 09:00:32 AM
the only stories that matter are the ones that have been given to the police.

we don't know how many stories there are and who's been changing them. according to the AP story this am, croes is co-operating with police (whatever that means)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:00:37 AM
Quote from: "Bill"
Joran's mom's statement would be hearsay at best.  I don't know that this qualifies as a new version of the story.  Just an observation.


If you say so bill.  If Joran told his mother that he had nothing to dowith it and just left her on the beach..and Greta was there when she said it, how would that not be credible? Not saying its true what he said, ya know


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???


I gave up in dismay and disgust last night after the email and the Greta show but as far as i know only wonderwoman had this.  it does not appear to be a campaign.  more like an aspiring author trying his/her  stuff out on these gullible monkeys.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:01:59 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
the only stories that matter are the ones that have been given to the police.

we don't know how many stories there are and who's been changing them. according to the AP story this am, croes is co-operating with police (whatever that means)


where did you hear about croes cooperation wiht the police?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Ed Gewise on June 22, 2005, 09:03:12 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
I have been struck by Beth Twitty's change in demeanor since her visit to the Van Der Sloot home - is there not a maxim somewhere to the effect 'I have met the enemy and the enemy is me' - haven't got that dead on but... - these families are suffering together in this - I have always felt this to be true - Beth is somewhat down - I feel for her.


Are you saying that you think Beth feels guilty for all of this??  As Beth has said, she left their house with "confirmation" -- and she feels that "more individuals" know about Natalee's disappearance and that "more individuals" should be detained.  She has said all along that she thought Joran's father knew more than he was telling.  I think she left that meeting with the Van der Sloots confident that she has been right all along.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 09:03:31 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:03:36 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"

I gave up in dismay and disgust last night after the email and the Greta show but as far as i know only wonderwoman had this.  it does not appear to be a campaign.  more like an aspiring author trying his/her  stuff out on these gullible monkeys.


I just hope so many pages on this thread don't "go there" again today.  I got tired of reading all of that last night :?  :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 09:03:52 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Bill"
Joran's mom's statement would be hearsay at best.  I don't know that this qualifies as a new version of the story.  Just an observation.


If you say so bill.  If Joran told his mother that he had nothing to dowith it and just left her on the beach..and Greta was there when she said it, how would that not be credible? Not saying its true what he said, ya know

Because it's Joran's mom saying what she remembers Joran saying.  Third hand info, and subject to telephone message syndrome.  This would not be valid eveidence in any court.  Why take it as fact?  I sure don't.


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:03:56 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???


I gave up in dismay and disgust last night after the email and the Greta show but as far as i know only wonderwoman had this.  it does not appear to be a campaign.  more like an aspiring author trying his/her  stuff out on these gullible monkeys.


Yeah i couldnt believe that when i saw that, if this is legite, then was it turned over to police? and if it was legite and turned over to police, there is no way they would allow it resurface and float around random forums..Just my opinion!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 22, 2005, 09:04:09 AM
First of all, of course CNN is not going to mention that a competitor 'scooped" them regarding the meeting between Natalee's Mom and the Van Der Sloot parents. They had to report this event, but no way are they going to mention on their network that Fox is responsible for this meeting, nor would they allow Beth to say that either.

As for the email....I do believe that it could be authentic. If we could see the headers from the email, it would prove it or disprove it. Even if it is authentic, it doesn't mean what he is saying is necessarly true, it is just his "version" of what happened, and we don't know if this "version" is the truth, or the story the guys cooked up for a statement of what happened.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 22, 2005, 09:05:27 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 09:05:35 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Do you think there should be a thread for that letter, so the people who get on today who didn't get to see it can go read it?  THen they can debate on that thread its authenticity?  I don't know how to create a thread :oops:


I think that's a good idea - tho I don't know how either.  That said, people probably wouldn't use it anyway and will spend pages and pages debating it here. :roll:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:05:36 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


well on the fox news special last night..they said that the father had met with joran at one point and was saying dont talk anymore, or say anything to authorities and this and that, and authorites had it wired (obviously being in jail things are monitored) and they caught him sayin that so that is why they wont give him permission agian to talk to his son......................


Title: New mood
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 09:06:08 AM
Yes Mrs. Twitty and the stepmother (a much more genuine person) and  were all sweetness and smiles yesterday, no demanding, no tantrums, no name calling, everybody cooperating.   Do they know something or have they changed antidepressants?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: katya on June 22, 2005, 09:06:13 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Do you think there should be a thread for that letter, so the people who get on today who didn't get to see it can go read it?  THen they can debate on that thread its authenticity?  I don't know how to create a thread :oops:


I think that is a great idea. All you need to do is click on new topic I think.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 09:06:38 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.

I was under the impression this was discussed before he was arrested? Because she did say she wasnt allowed to talk to him about the case during visits. This would lead to me to conclude if it is in fact true, she asked him prior to his arrest. If that is true, then he was already trying out new stories, and possibly tried it out on his mother. At this point IF they have all changed stories (which we simply DONT know they have its all rumor) I would have no reason to believe them. As my mother used to say "So which lie is true?"


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Did wonderwoman post the rest of the email lastnight?
When I left lastnight she only posted half.
Please let me know I don't want to wade through 300 posts to find it



I think this link should take you there.  I found it for someone else last night. :)   BTW, those were good points about the spelling and religion...

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=680


Thanks but I couldn't wait and just went looking though 20 pages. I didn't think anbody would get back to me that quick :lol:
About the email, whether it's real or not. I'm starting to believe that these boys had nothing to do with this.


WW posted 2 more emails as well.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:07:37 AM
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Which would make her in a lil more deep than otherwise thought, because tat would mean that she was witholding information in the beginning when he was using the Holidat Inn story....again just my opinion


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 09:07:52 AM
sorry it was the CNN story, toward the bottom of the page

Croes is now cooperating with authorities, the sources said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/21/aruba.holloway/index.html


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 09:09:22 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


well on the fox news special last night..they said that the father had met with joran at one point and was saying dont talk anymore, or say anything to authorities and this and that, and authorites had it wired (obviously being in jail things are monitored) and they caught him sayin that so that is why they wont give him permission agian to talk to his son......................

Actually he told him this PRIOR to  being arrested and did not know they were being wire tapped. So the police took this as him giving legal advice and after his arrest used that to prevent further contact. That is their story anyway. Who knows what was really said while they were being watched.


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 09:09:49 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 22, 2005, 09:11:10 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Which would make her in a lil more deep than otherwise thought, because tat would mean that she was witholding information in the beginning when he was using the Holidat Inn story....again just my opinion


Not necessarily, since we do not know whether Joran has told this to the police in one of his versions. Also, it is very possible that the Vandersloot's have given the police this info during the time that Mr VDS was being questioned as a witness


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.

But Deepak is not a West Indian.


Title: absolut
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 09:12:30 AM
Ok , absolut I'll bite, do you know what page they are on, I'm too tired to do anymore searching.  8)


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:13:17 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???


3 were put up in total on here. These emails are also being discussed in newsgroups and on other forums so this is not the only place.


Title: troubling experience in Aruba
Post by: expat on June 22, 2005, 09:14:01 AM
good morning everyone...

I have been following this forum for the past couple of weeks now and have gained much insight from reading here....many thanks.

For those of you who may be interested, I would like to share an experience my husband and I had in Aruba some three years ago...we were on one of our many trips to Aruba and were staying at LaCabana resort.  Our time there was during the first anniversary of 9/11, so there were not many tourists on the island at the time.

We were staying in a top floor unit, located in the back of the resort, facing the highway.  One morning as we were preparing to start our day and heading to our car in the parking lot below, we were shocked to see that a young Aruban male had deliberately jumped to his death from the roof of the resort above us.  Due to polis and rescue personnel, we delayed in leaving as planned.

As troubling as we felt this event was at the time, we were even more surprised to learn that a similar suicide had occurred two weeks earlier at the Hyatt....again some young Aruban male had lept to his death from this resort.  

Little or no mention was made of the suicide in the local newspapers during our days to follow in Aruba.......we wondered why it got so little attention.  In talking to the locals there and mentioning this most troubling of events, we were told at that time that chances were, both guys were in serious trouble with drug dealers on the islands,,,,,columbians, most likely, and that these folks are ruthless.....these two, chances are, leapt to their deaths to spare their immediate families of any repercussions from these drug lords....

Just a thought and a different spin on the island.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: "katya"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Do you think there should be a thread for that letter, so the people who get on today who didn't get to see it can go read it?  THen they can debate on that thread its authenticity?  I don't know how to create a thread :oops:


I think that is a great idea. All you need to do is click on new topic I think.


I followed, and it worked :D   I have added the first letter on  a thread for all to see and debate.  If anyone wants to go back and include the other two emails that would be great!  I think this will allow for people to read the letter and debate its authenticity...since it seems to be such a "hot" topic....still


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???


3 were put up in total on here. These emails are also being discussed in newsgroups and on other forums so this is not the only place.

Ok so there are 3 seperate emails? I only saw one. Guess I didnt stay up late enough or something. Where are the other two if u dont mind me asking?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Yes, but this version of the story came about AFTER he was detained and after the old story started to fall apart.


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 09:18:07 AM
Quote from: "Bill"
But Deepak is not a West Indian.


Maybe not biologically...but culturally?  Probably so.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


well on the fox news special last night..they said that the father had met with joran at one point and was saying dont talk anymore, or say anything to authorities and this and that, and authorites had it wired (obviously being in jail things are monitored) and they caught him sayin that so that is why they wont give him permission agian to talk to his son......................

Actually he told him this PRIOR to  being arrested and did not know they were being wire tapped. So the police took this as him giving legal advice and after his arrest used that to prevent further contact. That is their story anyway. Who knows what was really said while they were being watched.


Wow, ok Momto5, you got me.  i was wrong


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 09:19:31 AM
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


But Deepak is not a West Indian.


What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Which would make her in a lil more deep than otherwise thought, because tat would mean that she was witholding information in the beginning when he was using the Holidat Inn story....again just my opinion


Not necessarily, since we do not know whether Joran has told this to the police in one of his versions. Also, it is very possible that the Vandersloot's have given the police this info during the time that Mr VDS was being questioned as a witness


Like i said in my post right above..... "just my opinion"


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 09:20:41 AM
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.

But Deepak is not a West Indian.


Isn't he from Aruba or lived in Aruba for years?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 09:21:16 AM
<<<<Wow, ok Momto5, you got me.  i was wrong>>>

Oh its ok, I just pay attention to everything but still get confused by some of the statements that have leaked out in this case. I just wish we had a clear answer as to where she was by now. I also wonder just how much information was obtained during the time they were wire tapped?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 09:21:28 AM
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 09:22:26 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


But Deepak is not a West Indian.


What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.


West Indians are people from the West Indies....
Anguilla Antigua & Barbuda Aruba The Bahamas Belize Barbados
Bermuda Bonaire British Virgin Islands Cancun Cayman Islands Cozumel
Cuba Curacao Dominica Dominican Republic Grenada Guyana Guadeloupe Haiti Honduras Jamaica Martinique Montserrat Puerto Rico
Saba & St. Eustatius St. Barthelemy St. Kitts-Nevis St. Lucia St. Maarten & St. Martin St. Vincent & The Grenadines Trinidad & Tobago Turks & Caicos Island U.S. Virgin Islands


Title: Re: absolut
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:23:05 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Ok , absolut I'll bite, do you know what page they are on, I'm too tired to do anymore searching.  8)


All 3 are now in this thread http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 09:23:13 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???


3 were put up in total on here. These emails are also being discussed in newsgroups and on other forums so this is not the only place.


absolut:  did the email being discussed eleswhere originate here or elsewhere?  i recall ww was a bit coy on its procedence.


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "iquitos"
I think she finally put up the entire email and went to bed leaving the rest slack jawwed.  the first part appear to be carefully crafted.  the last part put up is just plain american email bable text that casts a bad light on what goes before.  I don't understand why this was thrown out just as the Greta thing reached its climax.  I would have to conclude that it is not authentic and believe any serious person putting it out would not be so coy about would be more open about its procedence.  And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


hi iquitos, i hopped on the site last night when this "email" was floatin around and didnt find much truth to it...i dont understand why someone would do that...i mean....like u said (and reason why i am responding to your post) is that why would it be on this forum and no where else!!  Were there multiple emails put up since last night? Is this a reacurring email thing goin on ???


3 were put up in total on here. These emails are also being discussed in newsgroups and on other forums so this is not the only place.


absolut:  did the email being discussed eleswhere originate here or elsewhere?  i recall ww was a bit coy on its procedence.


She was at least a 1 off as she did not recieve them from him. There is about 20 pages from last night that cover everything from not having usable headers to their content.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: GeOrGiA on June 22, 2005, 09:26:27 AM
I try to keep up with what's said here, but I'll be the first to admit I can't read every page.  Please bear with me and answer one question - I'm watching fox and Natalee's Aunt (Jug's sister?) just said JDV and his father were the last to see her alive - what have I missed here???  Or did I misunderstand??


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 09:27:46 AM
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
I try to keep up with what's said here, but I'll be the first to admit I can't read every page.  Please bear with me and answer one question - I'm watching fox and Natalee's Aunt (Jug's sister?) just said JDV and his father were the last to see her alive - what have I missed here???  Or did I misunderstand??

Ive not seen that posted anywhere, but I also dont have the news on. Maybe there was new information or something.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:29:25 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Good morning, Rob. It's now Day 23. (Maybe Catriana should start labelling her posts by days, since she normally changes the forum in the early am.) My hopes of finding Natalee alive are slipping away.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: GeOrGiA on June 22, 2005, 09:29:39 AM
Sorry - misquote - the Aunt said JVD and his father were the last to see her - (I shouldn't have included "alive" - she didn't say that), but I honestly think she said JDV's father saw her.  I know there was conversation last night about Natalee coming to JDV's house or something - couldn't follow all of it.  Anyone with information?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
I try to keep up with what's said here, but I'll be the first to admit I can't read every page.  Please bear with me and answer one question - I'm watching fox and Natalee's Aunt (Jug's sister?) just said JDV and his father were the last to see her alive - what have I missed here???  Or did I misunderstand??


Hmmm the last I heard was that JDV's father stated that JDV snuck out of the house and that's all he knows. There's too many stories to keep up with....


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 09:31:17 AM
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


But Deepak is not a West Indian.


What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.


A West Indians are people from the West Indies....
Anguilla
Antigua & Barbuda
Aruba
The Bahamas
Belize
Barbados
Bermuda
Bonaire
British Virgin Islands
Cancun
Cayman Islands
Cozumel
Cuba
Curacao
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Grenada
Guyana
Guadeloupe
Haiti
Honduras
Jamaica
Martinique
Montserrat
Puerto Rico
Saba & St. Eustatius
St. Barthelemy
St. Kitts-Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Maarten & St. Martin
St. Vincent & The Grenadines
Trinidad & Tobago
Turks & Caicos Island
U.S. Virgin Islands
 

Not that it matters that much but where is this list from and why does it include Guyana which is just next to Suriname and not Suriname or for that matter French Guyana.  Is it because nobody knows Suriname exists?  Do you have to speak English to be a west indian.  If so why are aruba and curacao and puerto rico and martinique on this list and why are Honduras and Belize on this list but not Venezuela and Panama or Colombia the country where Cartagena de las Indias is located?  I think you list is inaccurate.  we have the east indies and the west indies.  the west and east part are as viewed from europe, which colonized these areas and named them.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: heavyheart on June 22, 2005, 09:31:40 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Rob, if you're right I'm headin' up there to buy you a beer or whatever it is all y'all drink up there...promise.


Title: Re: absolut
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 09:31:46 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Ok , absolut I'll bite, do you know what page they are on, I'm too tired to do anymore searching.  8)


All 3 are now in this thread http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223


Thanks all I can say is wow!! I really don't know if they are true but the whole scenario does have a ring of truth to it.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:32:15 AM
How convienet is the story about joran sneaking out..therefore the father is not obligatede/expected to know where his son was, when he came back, who he was with, when he came home etc............


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: heavyheart on June 22, 2005, 09:33:21 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


You make a good point Kelly.  Kidnapping would get you far less time than murder.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:33:56 AM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Rob, if you're right I'm headin' up there to buy you a beer or whatever it is all y'all drink up there...promise.


God, if she is alive, i think all of us that have been on here for three weeks should meet up for a beer hahahhahaaha :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:34:26 AM
Hey Absolut, thank you for finding and posting the other two emails on the thread...THat'll be a big help for those who want to read them!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 09:34:39 AM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Rob, if you're right I'm headin' up there to buy you a beer or whatever it is all y'all drink up there...promise.


morning all...i'll buy a round too....i still have hope for her return.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:36:25 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Hey Absolut, thank you for finding and posting the other two emails on the thread...THat'll be a big help for those who want to read them!


I think is great if people want them to debate them, but if they need the backstory how they got here and the context in which they were posted, those 20 pages can't really be summarized objectively by anyone. It would be best to read the backstory for yourself and draw your own conclusions.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:37:17 AM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


You make a good point Kelly.  Kidnapping would get you far less time than murder.


I just think if it was me, i woudl be like ok i lied, im stuck, they are on to me, if  i knew where she was or that she was alive, i would be like ok....this is the deal..and they would strike a deal with them i am sure...you give us the girl, you will get kidnapping attempted murder etc or whatever which is far less serious than murder 1...obviously my criminal justice is not an A+ so i dont know the deals they strike in there..but just think that i would at this point (23 days later) realize that there is no way out of this....unless there is smoething far more serious they are holding in............


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Hey Absolut, thank you for finding and posting the other two emails on the thread...THat'll be a big help for those who want to read them!


I think is great if people want them to debate them, but if they need the backstory how they got here and the context in which they were posted, those 20 pages can't really be summarized objectively by anyone. It would be best to read the backstory for yourself and draw your own conclusions.


definitelt absolut....no one wants to wake up rehashing all of what was
already picked apart for hours....read it, right, and come back with questions.IMHFO


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:38:56 AM
I would think that out of all of them that croes is going to tel them authorities the deal..cause he would not be charged with the murder/kidnappin etc...he would get aiding and abedding for going along with the story and prob get 2 years or something........ so he has more of a life to save here..................


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:39:08 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Hey Absolut, thank you for finding and posting the other two emails on the thread...THat'll be a big help for those who want to read them!


I think is great if people want them to debate them, but if they need the backstory how they got here and the context in which they were posted, those 20 pages can't really be summarized objectively by anyone. It would be best to read the backstory for yourself and draw your own conclusions.


I agree, should we post which threads and which page it originally started on that separate thread?  Do you happen to know?  I thought it was somewhere in the 30's... :?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:39:30 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
I would think that out of all of them that croes is going to tel them authorities the deal..cause he would not be charged with the murder/kidnappin etc...he would get aiding and abedding for going along with the story and prob get 2 years or something........ so he has more of a life to save here..................


That is if croes did not assist in that........i should have siad that in the beginnin..........i just think that croes knew about it


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 09:39:52 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


But Deepak is not a West Indian.


What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.


A West Indians are people from the West Indies....
 

Not that it matters that much but where is this list from and why does it include Guyana which is just next to Suriname and not Suriname or for that matter French Guyana.  Is it because nobody knows Suriname exists?  Do you have to speak English to be a west indian.  If so why are aruba and curacao and puerto rico and martinique on this list and why are Honduras and Belize on this list but not Venezuela and Panama or Colombia the country where Cartagena de las Indias is located?  I think you list is inaccurate.  we have the east indies and the west indies.  the west and east part are as viewed from europe, which colonized these areas and named them.


Guyana is located in the South America, however they speak with a caribbean accent and they cook caribbean food. They also listen to Caribbean music (soca). The is from http://www.caribbeantravel.com/map_full.html   ....YES Cubans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans ARE from the caribeen/west indies. My family is from Panama, Trinidad, Barbados and Costa Rica oh and America. In my family, we have west indian accents and some also speak Spanish. Panama is in Central America. We call people from the Caribbean "West Indians" The Caribbean is full of what we call EAST INDIANS.

Aruba Facts:
The island of Aruba is part of the West  Indies in the Caribbean Sea, and lies about 12 degrees north of  the equator, approximately 29km (18 miles) off the Paraguaná Peninsula of Venezuela. One  of the Lesser Antilles islands, Aruba is about 30 km (19 miles) long and

about 8 km (5 miles)  wide with an area of 193 sq km (75 sq miles). The island's  population is about 89,000. The capital is Oranjestad named  after the Dutch House of Orange.
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/geography.html


Title: Re: New mood
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 09:42:26 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Yes Mrs. Twitty and the stepmother (a much more genuine person) and  were all sweetness and smiles yesterday, no demanding, no tantrums, no name calling, everybody cooperating.   Do they know something or have they changed antidepressants?


Thank you Dr. Iquitos for that Prozac moment. That was my first laugh of the day.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 09:43:26 AM
Use search people.  If you tell it to search by POST it will pull up all of them that way and you don't have to look for page numbers.  It really is faster.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:44:10 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Hey Absolut, thank you for finding and posting the other two emails on the thread...THat'll be a big help for those who want to read them!


I think is great if people want them to debate them, but if they need the backstory how they got here and the context in which they were posted, those 20 pages can't really be summarized objectively by anyone. It would be best to read the backstory for yourself and draw your own conclusions.


I agree, should we post which threads and which page it originally started on that separate thread?  Do you happen to know?  I thought it was somewhere in the 30's... :?


Because of the way it came out in pieces at first. I found the best way to track it was to to go to memberlist, then go to wonderwomans profile and view all post. Then trackback from there were the first snippet was posted.


Title: did joran take her nome
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 09:45:32 AM
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
Sorry - misquote - the Aunt said JVD and his father were the last to see her - (I shouldn't have included "alive" - she didn't say that), but I honestly think she said JDV's father saw her.  I know there was conversation last night about Natalee coming to JDV's house or something - couldn't follow all of it.  Anyone with information?


We had been led to beleive here, before the greta extravaganza, that joran had taken natale home that night.  that was not confirmed by the greta show, not even implied.  in fact the old man said he did not know joran left that night, and did not "recall" whether he had awakend him the next morning or if he went to school the next day.  the dad must have had one heineken too many after he picked joran up at mikkie dee at 11 (if joran was at the casino why did he meet dad at mikkie dee?}. The elder v/d s He did not to notice when Deepak? came for him and he snuck out.  One of the problems with the email is that it mention stuff we did not know for sure until last night like eyewitness accounts of how/where Joran (at the casino, that same night), the rumoured sighting of Joran's dad at the parking lot of mikkie dee (at wrong hour),  etc.  So it is almost as if the email and the greta show are coordinated.   whoever wrote it, it is a peice of work.  

Does anybody recall if we know if Joran went to school that day after?  I remember rumors that he came to school with scratches and bruises on his face.  Did he even go home first?  Was he on the schoolbus.  This is important to the timeline.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 09:45:47 AM
good morning all!  just got here.  i've been scanning and notice something about eamils?  can you tell me where i can find them so i can read the "backstory" or someone can pm me with a rundown?   thanks bunches!   :D


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:46:27 AM
Prof. and Absolut,
the first time the full lenght email was published was on page 35.  Do you think I should list any earlier pages to start on?  I will revise my post on the other thread with what page you guys think I should direct the readers to start....


Title: Tim Miller on CNN 9:40am
Post by: harleymom on June 22, 2005, 09:46:37 AM
Tim Miller from the Texas group is being interviewed on CNN. He said they are organizing and making plans to start the "big search" on Friday. They are working with the authorities.
They are bringing 4 of the nations best dogs 'trained for this kind of search'.
They are bringing divers and side sonar, and implied the Aruban divers haven't gotten wet yet.
His first plans when he lands in Aruba is to give Beth a big understanding hug, since he knows what she is going through.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:47:21 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Prof. and Absolut,
the first time the full lenght email was published was on page 35.  Do you think I should list any earlier pages to start on?  I will revise my post on the other thread with what page you guys think I should direct the readers to start....


I think in fairness it has to start at the snippet and the conversation to get the rest out.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: "bamajo"
good morning all!  just got here.  i've been scanning and notice something about eamils?  can you tell me where i can find them so i can read the "backstory" or someone can pm me with a rundown?   thanks bunches!   :D


check the wonder woman thread.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: katya on June 22, 2005, 09:47:46 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Yes, but this version of the story came about AFTER he was detained and after the old story started to fall apart.


Since we have never learned officially what the story is and what has been said, you have no way of knowing that. I suspect that the visits between Mrs. VDS and Joran are strictly monitored.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: "bamajo"
good morning all!  just got here.  i've been scanning and notice something about eamils?  can you tell me where i can find them so i can read the "backstory" or someone can pm me with a rundown?   thanks bunches!   :D


Go to search.  Type in wonderwoman for the user.  I put the * just in case I mispelled it.

Then for forum say Natalee hollowy

In the lower left corner click on POSTS.  and it will brink hers up.  

If you want to read a specific post it takes you directly to the page and the post and you don't lose any time.

It really, really does work.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 09:50:03 AM
Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:50:55 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol


Neither were dash, and some have found that their accounts do not match dash or previously held "truths"


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 09:51:33 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


But Deepak is not a West Indian.


What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.

Point taken.  Sorry to have implied anything, but I'd have considered Surinam South American before it being West Indian.

In the context of the original post, it was said that the hoax e-mail might be authentic because it contains things only a "West Indian" would say.  In retrospect, I cannot dispute that Deepak would have been in the Carribean (all his life?) to have picked up these subtle traits.

I stand corrected.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 09:51:45 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol


Neither were dash, and some have found that their accounts do not match dash or previously held "truths"


Thank you Absolut..!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Which would make her in a lil more deep than otherwise thought, because tat would mean that she was witholding information in the beginning when he was using the Holidat Inn story....again just my opinion


So we have an either-or situation. Either Joran told her that prior to his arrest and prior to the time he changed his story (in which case she was withholding information), or he told her that after he was arrested and after he changed his story (in which case she violated the rule that she wasn't supposed to talk about the case.) Either way, the lady is covering for her son.


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 09:54:26 AM
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


But Deepak is not a West Indian.


What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.


A West Indians are people from the West Indies....
 

Not that it matters that much but where is this list from and why does it include Guyana which is just next to Suriname and not Suriname or for that matter French Guyana.  Is it because nobody knows Suriname exists?  Do you have to speak English to be a west indian.  If so why are aruba and curacao and puerto rico and martinique on this list and why are Honduras and Belize on this list but not Venezuela and Panama or Colombia the country where Cartagena de las Indias is located?  I think you list is inaccurate.  we have the east indies and the west indies.  the west and east part are as viewed from europe, which colonized these areas and named them.


Guyana is located in the South America, however they speak with a caribbean accent and they cook caribbean food. They also listen to Caribbean music (soca). The is from http://www.caribbeantravel.com/map_full.html   ....YES Cubans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans ARE from the caribeen/west indies are. My family is from Panama, Trinidad, Barbados and Costa Rica oh and America. In my family, we have west indian accents and some also speak Spanish. Panama is in Central America. We call people from the Caribbean "West Indians" The Caribbean is full of what we call EAST INDIANS.

Aruba Facts:
The island of Aruba is part of the West  Indies in the Caribbean Sea, and lies about 12 degrees north of  the equator, approximately 29km (18 miles) off the Paraguaná Peninsula of Venezuela. One  of the Lesser Antilles islands, Aruba is about 30 km (19 miles) long and

about 8 km (5 miles)  wide with an area of 193 sq km (75 sq miles). The island's  population is about 89,000. The capital is Oranjestad named  after the Dutch House of Orange.
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/geography.html


so what do surinamers eat?  their food is certainly better than that in guyana but they will eat a roti in a pinch.  they even have a roti fast food chain but that is east indian food isn't it.  Are surinamers east indians?  actually, about half of them are. i guess we should call deepak and satish east indians transplanted to a no mans land adjacent to the west indies in south america.  i know where aruba is but you digress.  Why is Suriname not in the West indies, and by the way what kind of music fo they listen too?  Just beacuse one knows little about it is not a reason to exclude it from its proper geographic region.  I think the list is incomplete, ginned up by some travel agent, a geographer not.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:54:39 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol


Neither were dash, and some have found that their accounts do not match dash or previously held "truths"


Thank you Absolut..!!


no problem the questions i can handle. It's the how,what, when, where why this post that post, that I am trying to stay calm over. I need a drink already.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 09:55:02 AM
Quote from: "katya"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Yes, but this version of the story came about AFTER he was detained and after the old story started to fall apart.


Since we have never learned officially what the story is and what has been said, you have no way of knowing that. I suspect that the visits between Mrs. VDS and Joran are strictly monitored.


We are aware of that...........again, its just some theories, and opinions that we are throwing out there. No one obviously knows the "truth" to any of this


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Prof. and Absolut,
the first time the full lenght email was published was on page 35.  Do you think I should list any earlier pages to start on?  I will revise my post on the other thread with what page you guys think I should direct the readers to start....


I think in fairness it has to start at the snippet and the conversation to get the rest out.


Check and see if you think this is it....Whew!   a lot of searching :shock:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=340


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Prof. and Absolut,
the first time the full lenght email was published was on page 35.  Do you think I should list any earlier pages to start on?  I will revise my post on the other thread with what page you guys think I should direct the readers to start....


I think in fairness it has to start at the snippet and the conversation to get the rest out.


Check and see if you think this is it....Whew!   a lot of searching :shock:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=340


Yep 12th post down.


Title: Thanks to Alll You MOnkeys
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 09:57:42 AM
1. Thanks to the monkeys here I knew to watch Greta last night.. thank you!
2. Greta vs., Nancy... I usually do not watch Fox, but Greta scooped Nancy Grace last evening.. Congrats Greta... I will watch YOU on fox plus Nancy now
3. Moms and Dads - IMHO
a. PVDS showed high degree of class inviting G and B into home.
b. Beth shows class and sauvy, bartering between Fox and CNN< looking for Nat, and doing all she can to do things right while at same time proactively looking for NH
c. The Aruban official was classy.
4. Thank goodness they found the boyscout.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 10:19:23 AM
Did anyone else get kicked off the site and have a rediculous amount of trouble getting back on???????????? Ahhhhhhhhhh i was like nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 10:20:07 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Did anyone else get kicked off the site and have a rediculous amount of trouble getting back on???????????? Ahhhhhhhhhh i was like nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :lol:

Yep I did. I think they were down for a moment.


Title: Re: did joran take her nome
Post by: heavyheart on June 22, 2005, 10:21:26 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
Sorry - misquote - the Aunt said JVD and his father were the last to see her - (I shouldn't have included "alive" - she didn't say that), but I honestly think she said JDV's father saw her.  I know there was conversation last night about Natalee coming to JDV's house or something - couldn't follow all of it.  Anyone with information?


We had been led to beleive here, before the greta extravaganza, that joran had taken natale home that night.  that was not confirmed by the greta show, not even implied.  in fact the old man said he did not know joran left that night, and did not "recall" whether he had awakend him the next morning or if he went to school the next day.  the dad must have had one heineken too many after he picked joran up at mikkie dee at 11 (if joran was at the casino why did he meet dad at mikkie dee?}. The elder v/d s He did not to notice when Deepak? came for him and he snuck out.  One of the problems with the email is that it mention stuff we did not know for sure until last night like eyewitness accounts of how/where Joran (at the casino, that same night), the rumoured sighting of Joran's dad at the parking lot of mikkie dee (at wrong hour),  etc.  So it is almost as if the email and the greta show are coordinated.   whoever wrote it, it is a peice of work.  

Does anybody recall if we know if Joran went to school that day after?  I remember rumors that he came to school with scratches and bruises on his face.  Did he even go home first?  Was he on the schoolbus.  This is important to the timeline.


Not sure about the father Sloot, maybe he wan't at home either.  I think all this information just goes to show that none of us really know anything other than what happened from the beginning.  What we do know for sure is what has come from those on the ground in Aruba involved in the case.  We know a rough timeline of the events at around 0100 to 0130, we have knowledge of three different stories from the suspects and security gaurds.  The rest is all rumor and conjecture.

I'll be the first one to admit to being a control freak, always wanting to know everything about any situation I'm involved in.  Rarely does something take me by surprise.  In this case however, I think we can only sit back and pray and hope for a good outcome.  Let the judicial process (as flawed as we think it may be) down there, do its job.

It's funny, over the weekend I was flying down a deserted central California road and there in the ground, in the middle of no where, was a hand written sign that said "Trust Jesus."  That's the only thing that stuck out in a 300 mile road trip.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 10:21:50 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Did anyone else get kicked off the site and have a rediculous amount of trouble getting back on???????????? Ahhhhhhhhhh i was like nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :lol:



Kelly.. I got kicked off also.. !!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 10:21:59 AM
YEah cause i noticed that there were no more posts once i left


Title: Yep, I got kicked off an down for a few also, we are back nw
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Did anyone else get kicked off the site and have a rediculous amount of trouble getting back on???????????? Ahhhhhhhhhh i was like nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :lol:

Yep I did. I think they were down for a moment.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 22, 2005, 10:22:41 AM
Good morning, All


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:23:19 AM
I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.


Title: I need help on some time refinements.?
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 10:23:34 AM
May29th Sunday

8am-10pm       Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .      Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar.


2pm-7?pm.        sleep, shower, drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?            Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young

7pm-11pm       MUSIC CONCERT
Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill,Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh

11pm         Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds.

11.30pm-1.30am    Carlos and Charlies. Approx 40 MB student were there..

12.00am-1.30am    Joran arrives with Kalpoes Bros?

1.30am-2.30am   Cruising at California Lighthouse, Fisherman’s Hut/Beach?

2.30am-3.00am   Joran’ s house??

If I leave here tomorrow
would you still remember me
For I must be travelling on now
there's too many places I gotta see


Title: Re: Alleged Email from Kalpoe
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 10:24:34 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Bill"
Quote from: "MiamiMe"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
New to posts here but have been following for some time. After reading Wonderwomans email post, some issues came to mind re the authenticity of the email. I have noticed the following and wonder what your thoughts are: 1) police was spelled with the American spelling. Isn't it spelled polis in Aruba? Why would an Arubian spell it differently? 2). Van der Sloot is spelled VANDER SLOOT in the email. If this was your friend, wouldn't you spell his name right? 3) References to "God". Don't the Surinam practice Winti, Hindu and Muslim religions in most cases.  
Just a thought. Sorry if I'm off base


Hmmmm I believe the email was from Deepak. I also believe that was his "made up" story from the beginning. He told the security guard in jail that he LIED about the Holiday Inn drop off. As I read the email, I could tell that it was a West Indian that wrote it. lol It was certain things that he said.


But Deepak is not a West Indian.


What is a west indian?

Deepak is a surinamer.  Suriname was a colony of the Dutch West Indische Matschaapij (sp).  That is about as West and Indian as you get.  He is a native Dutch speaker and English is his second language.  He is more likely to have a Dutch lilt than an English one but he is a west indian of east indian ethnic origin.


A West Indians are people from the West Indies....
 

Not that it matters that much but where is this list from and why does it include Guyana which is just next to Suriname and not Suriname or for that matter French Guyana.  Is it because nobody knows Suriname exists?  Do you have to speak English to be a west indian.  If so why are aruba and curacao and puerto rico and martinique on this list and why are Honduras and Belize on this list but not Venezuela and Panama or Colombia the country where Cartagena de las Indias is located?  I think you list is inaccurate.  we have the east indies and the west indies.  the west and east part are as viewed from europe, which colonized these areas and named them.


Guyana is located in the South America, however they speak with a caribbean accent and they cook caribbean food. They also listen to Caribbean music (soca). The is from http://www.caribbeantravel.com/map_full.html   ....YES Cubans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans ARE from the caribeen/west indies are. My family is from Panama, Trinidad, Barbados and Costa Rica oh and America. In my family, we have west indian accents and some also speak Spanish. Panama is in Central America. We call people from the Caribbean "West Indians" The Caribbean is full of what we call EAST INDIANS.

Aruba Facts:
The island of Aruba is part of the West  Indies in the Caribbean Sea, and lies about 12 degrees north of  the equator, approximately 29km (18 miles) off the Paraguaná Peninsula of Venezuela. One  of the Lesser Antilles islands, Aruba is about 30 km (19 miles) long and

about 8 km (5 miles)  wide with an area of 193 sq km (75 sq miles). The island's  population is about 89,000. The capital is Oranjestad named  after the Dutch House of Orange.
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/geography.html


so what do surinamers eat?  their food is certainly better than that in guyana but they will eat a roti in a pinch.  they even have a roti fast food chain but that is east indian food isn't it.  Are surinamers east indians?  actually, about half of them are. i guess we should call deepak and satish east indians transplanted to a no mans land adjacent to the west indies in south america.  i know where aruba is but you digress.  Why is Suriname not in the West indies, and by the way what kind of music fo they listen too?  Just beacuse one knows little about it is not a reason to exclude it from its proper geographic region.  I think the list is incomplete, ginned up by some travel agent, a geographer not.


"Suriname's food is an exotic mix of East Indian, Indian, Creole and Chinese cuisines; the cheapest eateries are warungs, Javanese food stalls serving fried noodle and rice dishes."

Guyanese food is great! They cook curry the best in MY opinion.

They listen to chutney soca music.

There are alot of East Indians in Suriname. As well as in Guyana,
Trinidad n Tobago, Jamaica, etc....If you have any more questions, ask away. lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:24:53 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


sorry my puter crapped out and then i could nt get back in...i just looked at ms twtty last night and she had the look of someone who had inside info...im not sure these idiots actually have anything to do with it... but again, i dont know all the real facts....jorans and the brothers have never struck me as smart enough to pull off the perfect crime.. career professional criminals are often unable to pull off the perfect crime...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.



I too have wondered the same thing...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:26:02 AM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Rob, if you're right I'm headin' up there to buy you a beer or whatever it is all y'all drink up there...promise.


heineken junior.... amstel light..... 8)


Title: Re: did joran take her nome
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 10:26:24 AM
<<Let the judicial process (as flawed as we think it may be) down there, do its job.>>

I have discussed the Aruban procedures with my roomie.  We have decided the Aruban way may be a good way, re: not giving out ANY information until they have an iron clad case.  Maybe we should do this in USA?  We are still trying to decide. It drives the media and public mad however.  At least they are not "trying the case in the media" as so often happens in the states.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:26:25 AM
Joran seems to be gangster like in his actions, the beating of his chest and saying defiantly, "What do you want me to do?!" is what gang members do. The poses he takes in his photos are gangster like and his nickname.
Has there been any investigation into gang's on the island?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:26:26 AM
What about the casino meeting that day?

Also we have conflicting reports if she went to CNC with that group or a little bit later with a smaller group or alone.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.


I wondered the same thing.. Didn't her roomies notice that she wasn't gathering her stuff to go to the airport?  I found this a bit odd...Sorry if this was already discussed and I missed it.  
PS..I updated the other thread with the link to the beginning...thanks for your help :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 10:27:53 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


sorry my puter crapped out and then i could nt get back in...i just looked at ms twtty last night and she had the look of someone who had inside info...im not sure these idiots actually have anything to do with it... but again, i dont know all the real facts....jorans and the brothers have never struck me as smart enough to pull off the perfect crime.. career professional criminals are often unable to pull off the perfect crime...



AGREED!  I think for the most part, over the past few weeks, we have somewhat eben on the same page with our comments lol..good to haev someone to back me up a lil on here! Sometimes it turns into a "cat fight" hahhaha.... Its like a crime to have an opinion sometimes  :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 10:28:20 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Which would make her in a lil more deep than otherwise thought, because tat would mean that she was witholding information in the beginning when he was using the Holidat Inn story....again just my opinion


So we have an either-or situation. Either Joran told her that prior to his arrest and prior to the time he changed his story (in which case she was withholding information), or he told her that after he was arrested and after he changed his story (in which case she violated the rule that she wasn't supposed to talk about the case.) Either way, the lady is covering for her son.


i have not read all the way down and sorry if this has been covered, but in the interview last night, didn't greta mention the reason papa vds was detained was because he was caught discussing info about the case with his son?  so, did the aruban authorities  not moniter convos b/t mom and son?  it sounds like the convos b/t dad & son were monitored, i believe she used the words "wire tapped".


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: gaijin on June 22, 2005, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol


Neither were dash, and some have found that their accounts do not match dash or previously held "truths"


Thank you Absolut..!!


no problem the questions i can handle. It's the how,what, when, where why this post that post, that I am trying to stay calm over. I need a drink already.


I missed these interviews last night. If it isnt a big ordeal - what were the discrepancies between these two girls and what was previously "known"? if its a big deal, forget it, Im sure someone will go over it during the course of the day. Thanks.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:29:19 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran seems to be gangster like in his actions, the beating of his chest and saying defiantly, "What do you want me to do?!" is what gang members do. The poses he takes in his photos are gangster like and his nickname.
Has there been any investigation into gang's on the island?


What's Joren's nickname?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 10:29:21 AM
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Kelly"
and th mother slipped with some more infomation about joran saying that he left nat on the beach hysterical/sleeping so now that is actually confirmed...so the story yet, changes again, so where do they go from there ya know..........


I thought that Anita VDS wasn't allowed to discuss the case with Joran, when she visited him. So, this is clear proof that she violated that rule. I wonder if he discussions with Joran in prison were monitored. If not, then this is an opportunity to cook up a believable story and to pass information along to him on the progress of the investigation.


Joran could have told Anita that prior to him being detained.


Which would make her in a lil more deep than otherwise thought, because tat would mean that she was witholding information in the beginning when he was using the Holidat Inn story....again just my opinion


So we have an either-or situation. Either Joran told her that prior to his arrest and prior to the time he changed his story (in which case she was withholding information), or he told her that after he was arrested and after he changed his story (in which case she violated the rule that she wasn't supposed to talk about the case.) Either way, the lady is covering for her son.


i have not read all the way down and sorry if this has been covered, but in the interview last night, didn't greta mention the reason papa vds was detained was because he was caught discussing info about the case with his son?  so, did the aruban authorities  not moniter convos b/t mom and son?  it sounds like the convos b/t dad & son were monitored, i believe she used the words "wire tapped".


yes that is true, but someone had corrected me in saying htat i guess the converstaion was had before jorans arrest adn they were just being tapped


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:30:09 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


sorry my puter crapped out and then i could nt get back in...i just looked at ms twtty last night and she had the look of someone who had inside info...im not sure these idiots actually have anything to do with it... but again, i dont know all the real facts....jorans and the brothers have never struck me as smart enough to pull off the perfect crime.. career professional criminals are often unable to pull off the perfect crime...



AGREED!  I think for the most part, over the past few weeks, we have somewhat eben on the same page with our comments lol..good to haev someone to back me up a lil on here! Sometimes it turns into a "cat fight" hahhaha.... Its like a crime to have an opinion sometimes  :lol:


noted, kel........


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 10:30:13 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


sorry my puter crapped out and then i could nt get back in...i just looked at ms twtty last night and she had the look of someone who had inside info...im not sure these idiots actually have anything to do with it... but again, i dont know all the real facts....jorans and the brothers have never struck me as smart enough to pull off the perfect crime.. career professional criminals are often unable to pull off the perfect crime...

I know a little while ago on FOX.. before the President came on.. a reporter was on saying that NH mother said it was a productive meeting.. and thats all she would say.. I agree Rob..maybe she finally has some info.. unless they only told her things they thought she would want to hear to pacify her.. Just my opinion.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 10:30:43 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
I believe it is fair to say all of the mothers whose children are involved in this case, whether the suspects mothers, or Natalees mother are suffering.


I'm sure the mothers are suffering but mom's don't have a lock on caring for their children.  Us dads spend PLENTY of time loving and worrying about our kids too!   :)


Title: That email
Post by: Fluffy Monkey on June 22, 2005, 10:31:17 AM
May I be bold and suggest that that "email" be given its own thread?  I personally think it is just another Internet hysteria hoax kind of thing that everyone is going to just continue rehashing.

I really liked the GVS show, one of the best hours of investigative reporting I have ever seen with regard to these types of 'crime investigation features'.

 I think the VDS parents seemed perfectly normal and behaved EXACTLY like you would hope nice parents of a suspect would behave.  I thought they were gracious and kind to a very scared mother.   I also thought that whole meeting, as reported by GVS , provided common sense, simple explanations for many things.  Like why father VDS was interrogated by police.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:31:26 AM
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: heavyheart on June 22, 2005, 10:32:26 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.


With regard to when the MBHS group first suspected something, I think it was around 8am or 9am when they all met in the lobby and her friends could not find her.  Things became frantic when the groups left for the airport and Natalee had still not shown up.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Rob"
good morning everyone, professor and iquitos, im now under the impression that she is alive... just not in aruba.. dont ask my why.. just a feeling....


Me too Rob- til proven otherwise....my only thing is..if she was alive, these boys have to realize how much trouble they are in, so if she was alive, wouldnt they want to just give in and let it out, cooperate now with authorities and free yourself from something worse........On the other hand i see them thinking well if i can hold out for bit longer, they will haev to let us go with no evidence, aand they get out of it without any consequences.


i think that too - in a way, but why would these 4 guys "take the rap" for her if she did just take off?  it just does not make sense.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 10:32:34 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Did anyone else get kicked off the site and have a rediculous amount of trouble getting back on???????????? Ahhhhhhhhhh i was like nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :lol:


Yes.

Perhaps the new server has arrived?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:32:39 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran seems to be gangster like in his actions, the beating of his chest and saying defiantly, "What do you want me to do?!" is what gang members do. The poses he takes in his photos are gangster like and his nickname.
Has there been any investigation into gang's on the island?


What's Joren's nickname?


Pimp


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:33:13 AM
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:33:29 AM
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol


Neither were dash, and some have found that their accounts do not match dash or previously held "truths"


Thank you Absolut..!!


no problem the questions i can handle. It's the how,what, when, where why this post that post, that I am trying to stay calm over. I need a drink already.


I missed these interviews last night. If it isnt a big ordeal - what were the discrepancies between these two girls and what was previously "known"? if its a big deal, forget it, Im sure someone will go over it during the course of the day. Thanks.


It was a previous held belief Natalee had met JVDS on a previous day in the casino in HI. It has also been believed that Natalee was at the Beach concert from roughly 7-11pm.

The MBHS on Greta last night said that she met JVDS on the 29th in the casino and that other accounts were false. They then saw JVDS and his friends at CNC later that night. This was the first time JVDS was placed at CNC with friends.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 10:33:34 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.


natalees true friends on greta  last night said they were worried very early and went to the chaperones about it.  I would put it before 8 am, the assembly time.  by the way, all, we heard last night distinctly that paul was overheard telling joran in jail that he should shut up because he was spilling his guts as he apprently had been doing at school.  maybe it was the first time they took him in.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "absolut"
I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.


With regard to when the MBHS group first suspected something, I think it was around 8am or 9am when they all met in the lobby and her friends could not find her.  Things became frantic when the groups left for the airport and Natalee had still not shown up.


I wonder why they weren't frantic when they WOKE UP and she wasn't there!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Stera on June 22, 2005, 10:34:01 AM
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


ahhhhh, very little correct here.....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "momto5"
I believe it is fair to say all of the mothers whose children are involved in this case, whether the suspects mothers, or Natalees mother are suffering.


I'm sure the mothers are suffering but mom's don't have a lock on caring for their children.  Us dads spend PLENTY of time loving and worrying about our kids too!   :)

Very true, wasnt trying to discount the daddys out there by any means. Just was pointing out what Greta said about Jorans mother breaking down also. Jorans dad she said was wringing his hands and things like that. He probably feels he has to keep it together on general principle.


Title: Re: That email
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:34:49 AM
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
May I be bold and suggest that that "email" be given its own thread?  I personally think it is just another Internet hysteria hoax kind of thing that everyone is going to just continue rehashing.

I really liked the GVS show, one of the best hours of investigative reporting I have ever seen with regard to these types of 'crime investigation features'.

 I think the VDS parents seemed perfectly normal and behaved EXACTLY like you would hope nice parents of a suspect would behave.  I thought they were gracious and kind to a very scared mother.   I also thought that whole meeting, as reported by GVS , provided common sense, simple explanations for many things.  Like why father VDS was interrogated by police.


The email has its own thread.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 10:34:50 AM
anyone got any more info on this Lorenzo guy?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:35:20 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran seems to be gangster like in his actions, the beating of his chest and saying defiantly, "What do you want me to do?!" is what gang members do. The poses he takes in his photos are gangster like and his nickname.
Has there been any investigation into gang's on the island?


What's Joren's nickname?


Pimp


Oh, that's nice.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?


Title: Re: That email re: Fluffy
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 10:36:00 AM
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
May I be bold and suggest that that "email" be given its own thread?  I personally think it is just another Internet hysteria hoax kind of thing that everyone is going to just continue rehashing.

I really liked the GVS show, one of the best hours of investigative reporting I have ever seen with regard to these types of 'crime investigation features'.

 I think the VDS parents seemed perfectly normal and behaved EXACTLY like you would hope nice parents of a suspect would behave.  I thought they were gracious and kind to a very scared mother.   I also thought that whole meeting, as reported by GVS , provided common sense, simple explanations for many things.  Like why father VDS was interrogated by police.


Excellent Fluffy, I agree with all you said.  Thank goodness Greta had the good sense to comply with PVDS's request to turn off the camera.  I think Greta may have the scoop of the year... she blew Nancy Grace out of the water.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 10:36:07 AM
It kinda does seem as if the mother "wears the pants" in the family and that the father would be the "free for all" guy..but i no that i haev no way or right to make that assumption!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:36:17 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
anyone got any more info on this Lorenzo guy?


That's who fascinates me. He seems like such a shady character--I can't figure out how he's connected.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:36:47 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 10:36:57 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I got that same impression Rob..! Moms seems to be a little more over protective with sons then dads do.. IMO..lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 10:37:05 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

I know it may not be the "popular" opinion here, but he had to have limits I agree. Or he was just a genius and didnt need sleep or homework. Alot of teenagers sneak out and their parents never know about it. I still have secrets my mom never knew about from when I was a teenager. I think she might faint even today if she knew half of the things I did without her knowing.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 10:37:43 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It's a little laid back in the caribbean so maybe that's why he wasn't charged for misconduct. Yeah, I wonder how his family can go on professionally with all of this.....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 10:37:56 AM
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:38:13 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: gaijin on June 22, 2005, 10:38:26 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Quick question.. sorry if it was asked already.. I too watched Greta last night...the 2 girls that were on with her from MBHS.. was one of them DASH?? If so.. which one??  Nice girls they were!  Thanks!
Oh..I'll buy beer too...lol


Neither were dash, and some have found that their accounts do not match dash or previously held "truths"


Thank you Absolut..!!


no problem the questions i can handle. It's the how,what, when, where why this post that post, that I am trying to stay calm over. I need a drink already.


I missed these interviews last night. If it isnt a big ordeal - what were the discrepancies between these two girls and what was previously "known"? if its a big deal, forget it, Im sure someone will go over it during the course of the day. Thanks.


It was a previous held belief Natalee had met JVDS on a previous day in the casino in HI. It has also been believed that Natalee was at the Beach concert from roughly 7-11pm.

The MBHS on Greta last night said that she met JVDS on the 29th in the casino and that other accounts were false. They then saw JVDS and his friends at CNC later that night. This was the first time JVDS was placed at CNC with friends.


Many thanks..


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:38:44 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I got that same impression Rob..! Moms seems to be a little more over protective with sons then dads do.. IMO..lol


I thought Paul was the one that needed to travel for his studies to become a judge.


Title: Re: That email
Post by: Fluffy Monkey on June 22, 2005, 10:39:13 AM
Quote from: "absolut"

The email has its own thread.

Yay!

I also think I noticed  that the two girls interviewed on GVS made a small, insistent point that her 'real friends' wouldn't have let her get in that car.  Anyone else pick up on that inflection?

Fluff


Title: Re: did joran take her nome
Post by: heavyheart on June 22, 2005, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
<<Let the judicial process (as flawed as we think it may be) down there, do its job.>>

I have discussed the Aruban procedures with my roomie.  We have decided the Aruban way may be a good way, re: not giving out ANY information until they have an iron clad case.  Maybe we should do this in USA?  We are still trying to decide. It drives the media and public mad however.  At least they are not "trying the case in the media" as so often happens in the states.


I'm no lawyer, but I think there are admirable qualities to both systems (US and Aruban).  Those same qualities also conflict with what make us (some of us) American.  Open and transparent systems are the norm here in the US because we place individual right over those of the population.  It is the reverse in Aruba (and much of the rest of the world for that matter).  

Again, they are just different.  Both have good and bad aspects.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:40:59 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I got that same impression Rob..! Moms seems to be a little more over protective with sons then dads do.. IMO..lol


I thought Paul was the one that needed to travel for his studies to become a judge.


maybe she went to see family.. bc the flight is so far.. ppl tend to stay at aleast 2 weeks....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 10:41:04 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


Title: Re: That email
Post by: MiamiMe on June 22, 2005, 10:41:23 AM
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "absolut"

The email has its own thread.

Yay!

I also think I noticed  that the two girls interviewed on GVS made a small, insistent point that her 'real friends' wouldn't have let her get in that car.  Anyone else pick up on that inflection?

Fluff


Yes I noticed that too! I guess they're reading alot of messageboards! lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:41:28 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?


The Lorenzo I'm referring to is Lorenzo Van Rijn, a local person (not sure of his age but I think he's in his late 20's, like Steve Croes) whose father owned a Volkswagon dealership and committed suicide around 3 years ago. Ever since the suicide, Lorenzo has purportedly not cared about anything. He has two houses on different sides of the island, as I understand it. One is covered with crazy spraypaint and is the site of underground parties; the police usually break up underground parties, but since his house is out-of-the-way the police don't usually break those up.

That's what I've gathered about him from the boards; nothing came up when I Googled him. I'm still not sure how he's connected, but I know his name was thrown around the same day as the Steve Croes arrest--maybe they know each other.


Title: Rob
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


Title: Re: That email
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:41:41 AM
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "absolut"

The email has its own thread.

Yay!

I also think I noticed  that the two girls interviewed on GVS made a small, insistent point that her 'real friends' wouldn't have let her get in that car.  Anyone else pick up on that inflection?

Fluff


i heard that.. ouch! :shock:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:42:02 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


How do you know his GPA? I be suspect of that. He does not have a good reputation on the island.

You know if it walks like a duck....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: heavyheart on June 22, 2005, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I watched it happen all the way through college.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 10:43:08 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:44:07 AM
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


I didn't know there was anyone missing...that must have slipped by me.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:44:16 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


Title: Re: Rob
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:44:18 AM
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:45:21 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


How do you know his GPA? I be suspect of that. He does not have a good reputation on the island.

You know if it walks like a duck....


his gpa is like 3.5 i remember reading in the beginning...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 10:45:22 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to say that he is.  Anyone agree?


Title: Re: Rob
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:45:37 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....


Good one Rob,
It's all about appearences to Mr Judge


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


I didn't know there was anyone missing...that must have slipped by me.

No..this is not the one that is missing.  The name of the person missing is Sergio Gomez, or something like that.  Not much has been said about this.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


How do you know his GPA? I be suspect of that. He does not have a good reputation on the island.

You know if it walks like a duck....

I thought he had a tennis scholarship for school in the US.


Title: Re: Emails questionable at best
Post by: RB on June 22, 2005, 10:46:38 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
And why would it be put out only here, it must also be swirling around the web in Aruba, an apparently well wired place?


This is not the only place that message was posted.  Check some newsgroups if you have newgroup access and a reader.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:46:55 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to say that he is.  Anyone agree?


hes a wanna be......like alotta of kids his age....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 10:46:56 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


I didn't know there was anyone missing...that must have slipped by me.

No..this is not the one that is missing.  The name of the person missing is Sergio Gomez, or something like that.  Not much has been said about this.


thank you.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 10:47:15 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to say that he is.  Anyone agree?

I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 10:48:14 AM
Arubans, how much American television do you get.

Pimp has other meanings besides selling women in the us now.

My own kids watch that Pimp my Ride show.

Cars are pimped out.  

Yes it may be based on the flash of pimps, but kid use it for being flashy and showy without the sexual overtones.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: MissyRose on June 22, 2005, 10:48:34 AM
I don't think he could have bluffed his GPA, SAT's, and get a scholarship to a school no one else he knew was attending. He must be a smart kid, his mom is a teacher so I am sure that helps. I agree with amiller- that I think Joran is a lot less "hard" than we would all like to believe.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:48:39 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?


Are you talking about the person who was beheaded? That was Renee Van Heningen.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 10:48:56 AM
WHAT? ok wta a minute, i step away for a second and now we are talking abotu these dead people....please inform? lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 10:48:57 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?

The guy they found decapitated is the cemetary's name is Rene Van Heyningen.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to say that he is.  Anyone agree?

I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?


I don't have the name of the decapited guy close by, but it is not the same.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?


Are you talking about the person who was beheaded? That was Renee Van Heningen.


thanks...so many van somethings here....


Title: Re: Rob and Cherry
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 10:50:21 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....


Good one Rob,
It's all about appearences to Mr Judge


Do you really think PVDS is just wanting to look good (calm, cool) for the cameras?  If so, why did he run like a maniac to his car the other day in front of the cameras.  Isnt it possible he is just as caught off guard by this entire fiasco as the moms are?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 10:50:30 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?

The guy they found decapitated is the cemetary's name is Rene Van Heyningen.


so there is the decapitated guy (REne) and there is somoene else that is missing? SOrry i know you guys have been chattin about this for a few and prob haev it all covered adn dont want to repeat all this..just wonderin (if its not too complicated) to just catch me up...If not ..no big deal..just hard to scroll back while at work adn check allt he other posts


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:50:33 AM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
I don't think he could have bluffed his GPA, SAT's, and get a scholarship to a school no one else he knew was attending. He must be a smart kid, his mom is a teacher so I am sure that helps. I agree with amiller- that I think Joran is a lot less "hard" than we would all like to believe.

Would you go out on a date with him? He sounds scarey to me!


Title: Re: That email
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "absolut"

The email has its own thread.

Yay!

I also think I noticed  that the two girls interviewed on GVS made a small, insistent point that her 'real friends' wouldn't have let her get in that car.  Anyone else pick up on that inflection?

Fluff


i heard that.. ouch! :shock:


Indeed...ouch!  

But c'mon, think back to Dash's account.  NH and Joren were sort of behind the others from MB as they were leaving and NH 'sort of' (can't remember the exact word Dash used)  pointed ahead and said "I'm going with them."  

Possible that NH knew they wouldn't let her and was being a bit sneaky here?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 10:51:06 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


PLEASE POST LINK TO LORENZO FRANKIE.  BTW LAST NAME IS NOT VAN RIJN.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 10:51:25 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to say that he is.  Anyone agree?

I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....

Yep. Most teenagers ecspecially boys try to portray themselves as cool and tough. Fact of the matter is most of them arent. My 13 yr old has said things like "Ima gangsta" blah blah. We live in a small southern town and there are no gangs for miles. I tell him to sit the *beep* down. I was raised in southern CA in the likes of Long Beach. He simply has no clue. I wouldnt be too surprised if this were the case with Joran and Co.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Arubans, how much American television do you get.

Pimp has other meanings besides selling women in the us now.

My own kids watch that Pimp my Ride show.

Cars are pimped out.  

Yes it may be based on the flash of pimps, but kid use it for being flashy and showy without the sexual overtones.


I agree K.. My son watches that tv show also..and he and his friends call each other pimps as well..even my 11 yr old nephew saw a car the other day and said..Look at that..how cool.. its really pimped..lol I think its just a term kids use nowadays...meaning nothing by it. not like the definition of pimps us older people know!


Title: Re: Rob and Cherry
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....


Good one Rob,
It's all about appearences to Mr Judge


Do you really think PVDS is just wanting to look good (calm, cool) for the cameras?  If so, why did he run like a maniac to his car the other day in front of the cameras.  Isnt it possible he is just as caught off guard by this entire fiasco as the moms are?


papa has some bolts loose upstairs....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 10:52:01 AM
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.[/quote]



Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: la_cavalière on June 22, 2005, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: "Rob"


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....


I totally agree.  Kids put on these personas to appear cool.  I think we are reading too much into the pictures.  I know my own sister does "gangsta" poses, but she was the salutatorion of her class...and a great role mode.  However, kids do those things (make gestures, call themselves cool names) to appear cool.


Title: Re: Rob and Cherry
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....


Good one Rob,
It's all about appearences to Mr Judge


Do you really think PVDS is just wanting to look good (calm, cool) for the cameras?  If so, why did he run like a maniac to his car the other day in front of the cameras.  Isnt it possible he is just as caught off guard by this entire fiasco as the moms are?

My opinion is they did not do a good job parenting their child. I beleive he got into the wrong crowd. I beleive it is easier to do that in Aruba. I do feel sorry for them, but not as sorry as I do for the Natalee's parents.
Maybe some good will come from this. I pray we find out the truth and that Joran is helped and tells the truth.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 10:53:49 AM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
I don't think he could have bluffed his GPA, SAT's, and get a scholarship to a school no one else he knew was attending. He must be a smart kid, his mom is a teacher so I am sure that helps. I agree with amiller- that I think Joran is a lot less "hard" than we would all like to believe.

I heard on one of the MSM's, Greta I think, that Joran has a tennis scholarship to school in the US.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:54:41 AM
i see some of the same things wrong with papa vd sloot that i see wrong with my own father, sorry to say....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.[/quote]

All of that holds true until daddy picks him up at MCD's at 11 on sunday night. Cause JVDS can't drive or be in Casinos on the island and it is a school night.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 10:55:14 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?

The guy they found decapitated is the cemetary's name is Rene Van Heyningen.

Yes
1.  Guy decapitated:  Rene Van Heyningen
2.  Guy missing:  Sergio Gomez


so there is the decapitated guy (REne) and there is somoene else that is missing? SOrry i know you guys have been chattin about this for a few and prob haev it all covered adn dont want to repeat all this..just wonderin (if its not too complicated) to just catch me up...If not ..no big deal..just hard to scroll back while at work adn check allt he other posts


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: MissyRose on June 22, 2005, 10:55:19 AM
I did date "him". NOT JORAN, but someone just like him for 6 years. The guest house from his parents house, the gambling, the fake gang signs, the "pimped" out car, cheating on me with anything. Partying with younger girls... It usually is just someone's outside. I don't know for sure, but most killers, or abductors don't keep websites... too obvious.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 10:56:38 AM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.[/quote]
Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


is this the same last name as guy dead  in cemetary?

The guy they found decapitated is the cemetary's name is Rene Van Heyningen.


so there is the decapitated guy (REne) and there is somoene else that is missing? SOrry i know you guys have been chattin about this for a few and prob haev it all covered adn dont want to repeat all this..just wonderin (if its not too complicated) to just catch me up...If not ..no big deal..just hard to scroll back while at work adn check allt he other posts


A 33-year-old male was found decapitated, but no one's sure if it's related to drugs or if his wife/girlfriend put out a hit on him. There's been some speculation about the circumstances.

This is the first I've heard that someone is missing, so I really can't fill you in on that...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 10:57:40 AM
We don't know where he was those days. We don't know he was alone.

He easily could have been staying in the home of a classmate or family friend.

Plus he is basically the same as the kids from Alabama.  His graduation was just a few days later.

If it is ok for them to go to a foriegn country, and I think it is, then is certainly would be ok for him to stay in his own home for two nights.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
i see some of the same things wrong with papa vd sloot that i see wrong with my own father, sorry to say....


Sorry to hear that Rob


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:58:19 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.

Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.[/quote]

granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 10:59:08 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
   
When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.


Same here.  In fact my whole senior year was pretty lax as most of my 'heavy' classes were behind me, mostly extra-curricular stuff and a study trip, then 'crip' classes.  It was a year of a lot of freedom and fooling around even tho my parents were older than 'the norm' and fairly strict.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Rob"
i see some of the same things wrong with papa vd sloot that i see wrong with my own father, sorry to say....


Sorry to hear that Rob


i deal....with it.. it s ok....now...thanx though :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 10:59:19 AM
For some reason throwing this "Lorenzo" guys name around has bothered me.  We've made some rather inflammatory statements about him given we have NO idea if he's related to this case or not.  AND, there are so many folks who are not up to speed with the case that they wonder if he's the "dead guy"...Paulas' son, etc.

Also, I think we know too little to judge whether Joran's parents are good or not.  I'm not ready to make an assumption.  We also know Joran was a good student, good athlete.  He could also be a jerk...or a gentleman....we know too little IMO to make a full character assessment.

For those who are getting up to speed with this case I suggest you go to the timeline Brenda prepared.  I haven't read it all yet...but, it does help get the facts down.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.

Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.[/quote]

Let me clear up why I even posted dates about his mom and dad. There has been much confusion of who was out of the country over this weekend and into monday. It was not clear until last night. Much has been made of the father coming back on the 29th. Then it is learned the mother did not comeback until the 31st I think is what we now know.

JVDS being alone on the 27th and 28th only matters if he met Natalee on one of those 2 days as was originally thought.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:00:01 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
We don't know where he was those days. We don't know he was alone.

He easily could have been staying in the home of a classmate or family friend.

Plus he is basically the same as the kids from Alabama.  His graduation was just a few days later.

If it is ok for them to go to a foriegn country, and I think it is, then is certainly would be ok for him to stay in his own home for two nights.

Nicely said. That is what I was trying to say but havent been able to put it into words correctly. (I also have 5 kids running around the house that tends to make my brain malfunction from time to time and lose focus lol)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Herkimer on June 22, 2005, 11:00:02 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


I didn't know there was anyone missing...that must have slipped by me.

No..this is not the one that is missing.  The name of the person missing is Sergio Gomez, or something like that.  Not much has been said about this.


This is odd..A Sergio Gomez is a reporter for El Tiempo in Colombia...Wonder if its him


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 11:00:07 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.


Exactly he will be 18 in the next month or so , so it is the same situation as the kids on the trip .


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: katya on June 22, 2005, 11:00:24 AM
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 11:00:38 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.


All of that holds true until daddy picks him up at MCD's at 11 on sunday night. Cause JVDS can't drive or be in Casinos on the island and it is a school night.[/quote]

Thinking out loud...So the 27th and  28th he's on his own, but school get's out on Friday the 27th and he rides the bus home.  On Sat the 28th, he theoritically doesn't need transportation because there's no where he has to be.  His dad comes back on the 29th and JVS goes out and his dad pick's him up at 11:00 p.m. and brings him home.  After that, JVS sneeks out and goes to CC's.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 11:01:09 AM
All we know is that is has been reported he was brought in for questioning.  He, like Max whichever, was not held over like Steve.

That ought to say something, but I don't pretend to know what.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 11:01:32 AM
Fox is saying that Joran keeps changing his story, he's looking guiltier every day.  Feel sorry for his parents though.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 11:01:42 AM
Do they have pictures of this missing sergio guy? is he young?


Title: Seems quite normal..
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to
 say that he is.  Anyone agree?


Well all you have to do is see all the yahoo and aol.com profiles, I really see nothing unusual, okay the gambling in the casino..I wonder where he gets the money?  Does he do it alot?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:02:03 AM
Hmmm  a few minutes ago on FOX.. the reporter said JVS keeps changing his stories and is at odds with the others.. Hell.. is that old news or new? lol  Duh..


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:02:44 AM
Okay if I am not mistaken we learned this from Greata last nigh:
1. Father picked Joran up at Mcdonalds at 11:00 p.m.
2.  After Joran got home he snuck out (12:00-12:30)
3. Father cant remember if he woke son up. (which is understandable since they didnt live in the same house).
4.  It was confirmed by other media tha Joran was at school that day.
I think that mr VDS was very nice to let greta and Mrs. Beth to go on his house.  I would almost be afraid to let them guilty or innocent.  I know the father is innocent and believe the son is not the ring leader.


Title: Teen Limits
Post by: harleymom on June 22, 2005, 11:02:48 AM
Seeing his Dad picked him up at 11pm, on a school night... that matches our curfew times for my teens.  
Parent set limits and teens live for the "gray" area of limits and the challeges of "beating the system  :D

I see many similarities to my own experiences as a teen and as a parent of teen boys:
Sneaking out ... that matches my experience as a teen.
Maybe matches my sons? hmmm time to set at trap?

Not knowing child snuck out....matches my folks experiences and basically if you didn't know he snuck out, how would you know when he came home....gulp if they do sneak out then this matches me :?
Waking a teen for school around here is a shout upstairs or hearing the music from the alarm that stays on until he dashes out to get the bus....or stays on all day because he was REALLY dashing for the bus..."Run Forrest Run" is a daily thought here.

So my point is there maybe limits that were "Teenaged" around.
Around here, its the mom that nags for the teen to get up, dad just says if he misses the bus he has a bike.  Dad was left in charge and mom comes home to this after all her years & days of staying on top of things?  Happens here so I can see it happening in Aruba.
IMHO


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 11:02:56 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Hmmm  a few minutes ago on FOX.. the reporter said JVS keeps changing his stories and is at odds with the others.. Hell.. is that old news or new? lol  Duh..


I was thinking the same thing.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:03:30 AM
Quote from: "Herkimer"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I did a search on the tickle website with Deepak and it came back as Lorenzo Frankle, a 15 y/o male from Aruba. I wonder if that could be the same one?

No.  It's Lorenzo Van Rijn, it was established a couple days ago.  He's a crazy guy who's father committed suicide by hanging 3 years ago.  There is also a RUMOR in Aruba that he is Paulus Van Der Sloots illigitimate child.


so is this the guy that is missing?


I didn't know there was anyone missing...that must have slipped by me.

No..this is not the one that is missing.  The name of the person missing is Sergio Gomez, or something like that.  Not much has been said about this.


This is odd..A Sergio Gomez is a reporter for El Tiempo in Colombia...Wonder if its him


jounalists are often target when they are out of the country as to make it look as if they, (drug lords) have nothing to with it


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 11:03:36 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Do they have pictures of this missing sergio guy? is he young?

No...no pictures or anything else.


Title: Re: That email
Post by: Fluffy Monkey on June 22, 2005, 11:03:39 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "absolut"

The email has its own thread.

Yay!

I also think I noticed  that the two girls interviewed on GVS made a small, insistent point that her 'real friends' wouldn't have let her get in that car.  Anyone else pick up on that inflection?

Fluff


i heard that.. ouch! :shock:


Indeed...ouch!  

But c'mon, think back to Dash's account.  NH and Joren were sort of behind the others from MB as they were leaving and NH 'sort of' (can't remember the exact word Dash used)  pointed ahead and said "I'm going with them."  

Possible that NH knew they wouldn't let her and was being a bit sneaky here?
 

Yes, of course!  Personally, I really liked making out with really cute guys at that age.  And it DID NOT mean having sex ! And I wouldn't have wanted my freinds to stop me.  And I was a VERY good girl, I just liked cute boys!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:03:55 AM
JVS now being trasnferred to the main prison  Croes is the only left at the police station


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 11:03:57 AM
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


I am beginning to think that Joran, Deepak and Satish are innocent.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 11:04:03 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.

Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.


granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....[/quote]

wow good point...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 11:04:16 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
All we know is that is has been reported he was brought in for questioning.  He, like Max whichever, was not held over like Steve.

That ought to say something, but I don't pretend to know what.


I've never seen any confirmation he was brought in for questioning...they say many people have been questioned...so it could be true...but, do we really know that?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:04:24 AM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.


All of that holds true until daddy picks him up at MCD's at 11 on sunday night. Cause JVDS can't drive or be in Casinos on the island and it is a school night.


Thinking out loud...So the 27th and  28th he's on his own, but school get's out on Friday the 27th and he rides the bus home.  On Sat the 28th, he theoritically doesn't need transportation because there's no where he has to be.  His dad comes back on the 29th and JVS goes out and his dad pick's him up at 11:00 p.m. and brings him home.  After that, JVS sneeks out and goes to CC's.[/quote]
Yes. He then meets up with Natalee there and leaves thats when the time line gets screwy...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 11:04:32 AM
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....


I totally agree.  Kids put on these personas to appear cool.  I think we are reading too much into the pictures.  I know my own sister does "gangsta" poses, but she was the salutatorion of her class...and a great role mode.  However, kids do those things (make gestures, call themselves cool names) to appear cool.


Maybe we are. But it's disturbing to me that he quickly started unloading his websites. Maybe he realized exactly what he was presenting to the public and that it would be read that way because that's how it came across?  So suspicious, to start deleting your steps on the Internet.  I'm not sure we're reading enough into those websites - maybe something that caused him to self-delete, for instance.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:04:47 AM
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:06:23 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
I agree. I have teenagers and sometimes some things they say are just plain stupid. They try so hard to be cool, and act a certain way and what have you. It doesnt always make it so.




Another thought is that even if he was home alone on the 27th and 28th, he was (is) about to leave for college in another country.  His being at home alone is no different than his being away at school.

Exactly. We arent talking about leaving a 10 yr old home alone guys. These are all older teens who would be on their way to college soon. If it is criminal to allow latitude with your older teens then Im guilty of that myself. There is a time when you have to have some faith in your kids, ecpsecially as they get older. All you can do is hope and pray you instilled the right values, the rest is up to them really.


granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....


wow good point...[/quote]
Good point. But nothing has been said on whether they had someone "watching" them or not. It would be interesting to know what the plan was when both parents were away. I usually have one. My kids range from 4 mths to 16 yrs old. So I have to make plans in any case for the younger children, and the older ones have to cope.


Title: Yep, I agree , JVDS is looking the guiltiest
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 11:06:32 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Fox is saying that Joran keeps changing his story, he's looking guiltier every day.  Feel sorry for his parents though.


He has gone from being placed with three other guys as the last ones around NH, to being dropped off at a beach with NH, and subsequently, leaving NH hysterical/sleeping on the beach.  I think the polis are finally breaking him down. He has placed himself as the last person around NH. I am not feeling good about this outcome.  :(


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 11:07:00 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Rob"
  [
granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....


wow good point...


Valentijn was with mom on trip.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Title: Re: That email
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:07:37 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "absolut"

The email has its own thread.

Yay!

I also think I noticed  that the two girls interviewed on GVS made a small, insistent point that her 'real friends' wouldn't have let her get in that car.  Anyone else pick up on that inflection?

Fluff


i heard that.. ouch! :shock:


Indeed...ouch!  

But c'mon, think back to Dash's account.  NH and Joren were sort of behind the others from MB as they were leaving and NH 'sort of' (can't remember the exact word Dash used)  pointed ahead and said "I'm going with them."  

Possible that NH knew they wouldn't let her and was being a bit sneaky here?


A LITTLE SNEAKY, A LITTLE BOLD, AND A LITTLE VAGUE (SP) ON THE PART OF THE TELLER.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 11:07:46 AM
I was a single parent, and when I had to be out of town, I farmed my kids out to my teaching buddies--usually separately to ones who had kids my age.

There is not proof that these parents did that, but there is also no proof that they did not.

She even could have had them with her--or he could have.

We don't know.  They could have other relatives that moved to Aruba.  We don't know.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:07:53 AM
That email that ww wrote (just for you who wasnt here last night) came out befroe the Greta show came on.  The email was right on.  I think that its legit.  All religions almost believe in some type of God.  We should respect her instead of redicule her, she seems to know a lot. And we could use that here. :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: MissyRose on June 22, 2005, 11:08:27 AM
Innocent people may not play musical alibies. But Scared People do. Especially when your whole families future and yours is riding on it. I don't believe that Joran was a ring leader, more of a follower. I do believe drugs were involved with all people-- including Natalee.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 11:08:53 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
I have a new timeline question, in all the articles about MBHS accounts, it says they knew something was wrong when Natalee wasn't around to catch the plane. I am not taking that literally but would take that to mean 10-11am Monday.

What was the earliest time anyone has said they looked for, or noticed she was missing? I am guessing here but if the kept late hours everynight it may have really been much later before she was "missing"

What I am getting is the window of opportunity would grow. 1-1:30am left CNC. It can be debated forever about the 3's involvement, but suffice to say there is at a min. 3 hours where no one would have known to "see" anything and possibly as much as 8+ hours.


This is certainly of interest, but let's not lose track of the central thread here. The last time Natalee was SEEN was with JORAN. So, from that point forward, the more important question should be where was HE?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 11:09:34 AM
I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!


Title: Re: Yep, I agree , JVDS is looking the guiltiest
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "DT"
Fox is saying that Joran keeps changing his story, he's looking guiltier every day.  Feel sorry for his parents though.


He has gone from being placed with three other guys as the last ones around NH, to being dropped off at a beach with NH, and subsequently, leaving NH hysterical/sleeping on the beach.  I think the polis are finally breaking him down. He has placed himself as the last person around NH. I am not feeling good about this outcome.  :(


yesterday there was an indication that the time line may be down to 3 am -5 am... that does look good when you admit to being the last one seen with her.....and why would someone be "hysterical"?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Rob"
  [
granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....


wow good point...


Valentijn was with mom on trip.


I thought I read on his profile that Valentijn was 19--he seemed old enough to take care of himself in any case.

The little fat kid (bless him, I love that picture where the ice cream cone is hanging out of his mouth) is another matter.


Title: Re: Seems quite normal..
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to
 say that he is.  Anyone agree?


Well all you have to do is see all the yahoo and aol.com profiles, I really see nothing unusual, okay the gambling in the casino..I wonder where he gets the money?  Does he do it alot?

I heard he was an extasy dealer.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 11:10:01 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....


I totally agree.  Kids put on these personas to appear cool.  I think we are reading too much into the pictures.  I know my own sister does "gangsta" poses, but she was the salutatorion of her class...and a great role mode.  However, kids do those things (make gestures, call themselves cool names) to appear cool.


Maybe we are. But it's disturbing to me that he quickly started unloading his websites. Maybe he realized exactly what he was presenting to the public and that it would be read that way because that's how it came across?  So suspicious, to start deleting your steps on the Internet.  I'm not sure we're reading enough into those websites - maybe something that caused him to self-delete, for instance.


I think he realized his photo was being grapped and published elsewhere...if it was Joran who wrote Dan, we know that to be true.  Guilty or innocent for the sake of privacy I would sure take down my photos and friend's photos....I think we all would.

It does NOT prove guilt to do such a thing.

I'm not defending him in any way, but to pick normal activities and attach guilt is out of line.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:10:10 AM
Quote from: "Shellbell"
That email that ww wrote (just for you who wasnt here last night) came out befroe the Greta show came on.  The email was right on.  I think that its legit.  All religions almost believe in some type of God.  We should respect her instead of redicule her, she seems to know a lot. And we could use that here. :wink:

I agree. She posted in prior to Greats show and alot in the email ended up being validated. There is no way of saying the emails werent authentic.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Rob"
  [
granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....


wow good point...


Valentijn was with mom on trip.


what about the littest kid?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: RB on June 22, 2005, 11:10:55 AM
This is certainly of interest, but let's not lose track of the central thread here. The last time Natalee was SEEN was with JORAN. So, from that point forward, the more important question should be where was HE?

That's exactly what the authorities would be trying to get to, to either confirm or debunk his story of this time, IMO.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 11:12:02 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


I think he realized his photo was being grapped and published elsewhere...if it was Joran who wrote Dan, we know that to be true.  Guilty or innocent for the sake of privacy I would sure take down my photos and friend's photos....I think we all would.

It does NOT prove guilt to do such a thing.

I'm not defending him in any way, but to pick normal activities and attach guilt is out of line.


I agree with you, ND!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 11:12:06 AM
Quote from: "Shellbell"
That email that ww wrote (just for you who wasnt here last night) came out befroe the Greta show came on.  The email was right on.  I think that its legit.  All religions almost believe in some type of God.  We should respect her instead of redicule her, she seems to know a lot. And we could use that here. :wink:


I feel the same way, Shell.  About all of your comment.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:12:38 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!


First off Kell, I think that he has cracked by now.  He is to scared.  So he has no reason to make up a story, and being interrogated has to suck.

I just cant help but wonder where their investigation is going.  Before Beth went in the house she WAS POSITIVE THEY ARE INVOLVED.  After that, she just stated she felt that the boys knew, cause they were the last ones to see her.  Who knows.  But if they dont find her soon this case will be thrown out.


Title: Re: Rob
Post by: Rosalie on June 22, 2005, 11:12:40 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....


Good one Rob,
It's all about appearences to Mr Judge


As soon as he heard her say she was Natalees mom he came out of the bushes. He looked surprised and yet
seemed anxious to talk to her. Just my take on it.


Title: Logical
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 11:12:57 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....


I totally agree.  Kids put on these personas to appear cool.  I think we are reading too much into the pictures.  I know my own sister does "gangsta" poses, but she was the salutatorion of her class...and a great role mode.  However, kids do those things (make gestures, call themselves cool names) to appear cool.


Maybe we are. But it's disturbing to me that he quickly started unloading his websites. Maybe he realized exactly what he was presenting to the public and that it would be read that way because that's how it came across?  So suspicious, to start deleting your steps on the Internet.  I'm not sure we're reading enough into those websites - maybe something that caused him to self-delete, for instance.


Identity protection from media is not illogical, I would do it if I was under investigation. It has nothing to do with being guilty.  In fact Joran might have been smart enough to say 'hey, I better protect my friends from harrastment' . You have to see any Yahoo board that is discussing anything and subject, it just no real discussion of issues.  Okay now the musical alibis.  One word Interrogation.  Police interrogation can break you down and make you confess to anthing.  So changing of stories migth be teh inaccurate version.  I almost have to say I am starting to believe the first story and give it more weight, no matter what supposely Deepak said.  Maybe it was a police tactic to sow discord among the group fearing that they must force a confession.  Do we have a confession..no?! Why not, for  all intense and purpose it should have been a 'simple' case.. well its not.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:13:05 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Rob"
  [
granted..., but who would have been watching valentijn and the pillsbury dough boy?  not joran i suppose....


wow good point...


Valentijn was with mom on trip.


I thought I read on his profile that Valentijn was 19--he seemed old enough to take care of himself in any case.

The little fat kid (bless him, I love that picture where the ice cream cone is hanging out of his mouth) is another matter.


hes like 15 or 16....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 11:13:07 AM
Quote from: "RB"
This is certainly of interest, but let's not lose track of the central thread here. The last time Natalee was SEEN was with JORAN. So, from that point forward, the more important question should be where was HE?

That's exactly what the authorities would be trying to get to, to either confirm or debunk his story of this time, IMO.


That's very true.  But that's where everything goes haywire.  Nobody seems to know that but him.  His dad was evidently asleep.  The brothers may know some details, but probably not all.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:13:12 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
That email that ww wrote (just for you who wasnt here last night) came out befroe the Greta show came on.  The email was right on.  I think that its legit.  All religions almost believe in some type of God.  We should respect her instead of redicule her, she seems to know a lot. And we could use that here. :wink:


I feel the same way, Shell.  About all of your comment.


I live in southwest Ga also!!!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: katya on June 22, 2005, 11:13:15 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....


I totally agree.  Kids put on these personas to appear cool.  I think we are reading too much into the pictures.  I know my own sister does "gangsta" poses, but she was the salutatorion of her class...and a great role mode.  However, kids do those things (make gestures, call themselves cool names) to appear cool.


Maybe we are. But it's disturbing to me that he quickly started unloading his websites. Maybe he realized exactly what he was presenting to the public and that it would be read that way because that's how it came across?  So suspicious, to start deleting your steps on the Internet.  I'm not sure we're reading enough into those websites - maybe something that caused him to self-delete, for instance.


I think he realized his photo was being grapped and published elsewhere...if it was Joran who wrote Dan, we know that to be true.  Guilty or innocent for the sake of privacy I would sure take down my photos and friend's photos....I think we all would.

It does NOT prove guilt to do such a thing.

I'm not defending him in any way, but to pick normal activities and attach guilt is out of line.


Absolutely would take down my website if I was thrust into public view like that, seems completely normal to me.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:13:31 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!


I agree with you Kelly.. had to run in the room and plant myself in front of the tv set to listen.. Wonder if Joran knows anything about NH mom and Greta visiting his parents last evening..Hmmmm....maybes hes pooping his pants!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:13:57 AM
The decapitated body they found? I heard it was a message sent to someone. A common one sent by some satanic gang? Has anyone else heard this? I heard it on TV, can't remember which show. I beleive it was an international DEA agent stating it.


Title: Re: Logical
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 11:14:11 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"


these kids seem like they would crap their pants if a "real" gangsta situation came up....


I totally agree.  Kids put on these personas to appear cool.  I think we are reading too much into the pictures.  I know my own sister does "gangsta" poses, but she was the salutatorion of her class...and a great role mode.  However, kids do those things (make gestures, call themselves cool names) to appear cool.


Maybe we are. But it's disturbing to me that he quickly started unloading his websites. Maybe he realized exactly what he was presenting to the public and that it would be read that way because that's how it came across?  So suspicious, to start deleting your steps on the Internet.  I'm not sure we're reading enough into those websites - maybe something that caused him to self-delete, for instance.


Identity protection from media is not illogical, I would do it if I was under investigation. It has nothing to do with being guilty.  In fact Joran might have been smart enough to say 'hey, I better protect my friends from harrastment' . You have to see any Yahoo board that is discussing anything and subject, it just no real discussion of issues.  Okay now the musical alibis.  One word Interrogation.  Police interrogation can break you down and make you confess to anthing.  So changing of stories migth be teh inaccurate version.  I almost have to say I am starting to believe the first story and give it more weight, no matter what supposely Deepak said.  Maybe it was a police tactic to sow discord among the group fearing that they must force a confession.  Do we have a confession..no?! Why not, for  all intense and purpose it should have been a 'simple' case.. well its not.


I'm starting to believe that myself.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
Innocent people may not play musical alibies. But Scared People do. Especially when your whole families future and yours is riding on it. I don't believe that Joran was a ring leader, more of a follower. I do believe drugs were involved with all people-- including Natalee.


If drugs were involved then Joran is not innocent.  I see no scenario where in the purest sense of the word those boys are completely innocent. At best, they're changing stories and giving LE and the parents the runaround. At worst, who knows?  But there's never any need to change your story if you're telling the truth.  The truth withstands ALL scrutiny.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 11:14:39 AM
this info that he left her hysterical/sleeping on the beach - where did that come from?

wasn't it on reihl (sp?) pictures of styrofoam, a bottle of lysol, and a security guard shirt?  was any of that authenticated?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:14:59 AM
Does anyone have a map showing JVS house, CC, Holiday Inn? How did he get to Casino? The brothers?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 22, 2005, 11:15:22 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!


maybe they have and LE is wanting a confession?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:15:45 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "MissyRose"
Innocent people may not play musical alibies. But Scared People do. Especially when your whole families future and yours is riding on it. I don't believe that Joran was a ring leader, more of a follower. I do believe drugs were involved with all people-- including Natalee.


If drugs were involved then Joran is not innocent.  I see no scenario where in the purest sense of the word those boys are completely innocent. At best, they're changing stories and giving LE and the parents the runaround. At worst, who knows?  But there's never any need to change your story if you're telling the truth.  The truth withstands ALL scrutiny.


Yeah but you never know til you go through it.  I would be a wreck!  There is no telling what would come out of my mouth.  They have already showed their gonna hold them guilty or innocent.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 11:15:58 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Kelly"
I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!


I agree with you Kelly.. had to run in the room and plant myself in front of the tv set to listen.. Wonder if Joran knows anything about NH mom and Greta visiting his parents last evening..Hmmmm....maybes hes pooping his pants!!


Hey, can you post a lil summary of anything they say on fox if it is in fact new information..thanks..stuck at work and tryin to be discrete over here and the typing constatnly really gives it away lol :oops:


Title: Re: Rob
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:16:03 AM
Quote from: "Rosalie"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
ar least one fact was cleared up last night .. it was mama vd sloot in holland and not papa... i get the impression that mama vd sloot keeps joran in line and when she is gone... its party time.. and papa, does nt reallly care what joran does.... anyone else?


I don't think either one of them had a handle on that kid. But I suspect the Father was the easiest of the two! Great judge material for Aruba!


Rob,
I agree with your assessment, the mom keeps them all in line.  I will however, give Papa VDS cudos for being gentlemanly and inviting the two guests into his home. This was the best thing that could happen to calm the case down quickly.  He seems like he reallly cares about what is going on right now.  He probably wishes he hadnt given his kid so much latitude., IMHO


as opposed to having major confortation on the front lawn with the cameras rolling.. i loved the way he hid in the bushes...fast as O.J. and unseen like the invisible man....


Good one Rob,
It's all about appearences to Mr Judge


As soon as he heard her say she was Natalees mom he came out of the bushes. He looked surprised and yet
seemed anxious to talk to her. Just my take on it.


he came out of the bushes bc, after the running episode, he would have cast a hell of alotta doubt on his son and him if he did nt .. hes weird.. but not stupid....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tmwsiy on June 22, 2005, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 11:16:15 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?


I thought Valentijn was the eldest which would make him older than 18 and the youngest son went to Holland with the mother.  Not to be snarly but it's not necessary to call the little one names.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:16:16 AM
Quote from: "bamajo"
this info that he left her hysterical/sleeping on the beach - where did that come from?

wasn't it on reihl (sp?) pictures of styrofoam, a bottle of lysol, and a security guard shirt?  was any of that authenticated?


jvds mom


Title: ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES SEX, LIES. AND VIDEOTAPE
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?
 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.


Title: Shell and Kelly
Post by: bogey_blusey_chaston on June 22, 2005, 11:16:53 AM
IMHO, they are going to break JVDS.  He is going to confess "to doing something bad".  and then there will be a trial, IMHO, he wont last much longer under the stress


Title: Re: Logical
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"

Identity protection from media is not illogical, I would do it if I was under investigation. It has nothing to do with being guilty.  In fact Joran might have been smart enough to say 'hey, I better protect my friends from harrastment' . You have to see any Yahoo board that is discussing anything and subject, it just no real discussion of issues.  Okay now the musical alibis.  One word Interrogation.  Police interrogation can break you down and make you confess to anthing.  So changing of stories migth be teh inaccurate version.  I almost have to say I am starting to believe the first story and give it more weight, no matter what supposely Deepak said.  Maybe it was a police tactic to sow discord among the group fearing that they must force a confession.  Do we have a confession..no?! Why not, for  all intense and purpose it should have been a 'simple' case.. well its not.


Not only would he be protecting his friends, but his family.  I got to see the site before it was taken down, and there were pictures of little kids...very young...on there; I would assume they were cousins or something.  I am sure that his family encouraged him to take it down.  His extended family shouldn't be subjucted to all of this.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: "bamajo"
this info that he left her hysterical/sleeping on the beach - where did that come from?

wasn't it on reihl (sp?) pictures of styrofoam, a bottle of lysol, and a security guard shirt?  was any of that authenticated?


It was on fox last night....one story was he left her there hysterical...then he elft her there sleeping..those were the reports that were said that joran changed his story to.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 11:17:52 AM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
Innocent people may not play musical alibies. But Scared People do. Especially when your whole families future and yours is riding on it....


Yes - do you remember being that age...how those things (parents' lives/reputations, parents' trust, etc.) seemed soooo HUGE?  This concept is much discussed around teen suicide, too - the way that things such as this are blown totally out of proportion in the minds of teens.


Title: Re: ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES SEX, LIES. AND VIDEOTAPE
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 11:18:19 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?
 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.


Exactly!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 11:18:24 AM
If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.


Title: Re: ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES SEX, LIES. AND VIDEOTAPE
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:18:26 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?
 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.


Good point.  My parents let me drink when I was in hs.  They let me go on my senior cruise also.  So there you go............  ANd I am okay (It think, excepth for the voices!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Kelly"
I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!


I agree with you Kelly.. had to run in the room and plant myself in front of the tv set to listen.. Wonder if Joran knows anything about NH mom and Greta visiting his parents last evening..Hmmmm....maybes hes pooping his pants!!


I can only think that either hardened criminals or trained militairy personnel would be able to witstand long hours of interrogation and NOT BREAK DOWN.  So we have to conclude they don;t know anything and or are innnocent of suspicion of manslaughter.   If you were in his shoes would your family allow an interview?  I have to say its time to move on...there is nothing here to find anymore., at least not from this posse.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?


I thought Valentijn was the eldest which would make him older than 18 and the youngest son went to Holland with the mother.  Not to be snarly but it's not necessary to call the little one names.

Valentijn is Joran's younger brother and is approx 15.  He lied on his tickle site when he said he was 19.


Title: Re: Seems quite normal..
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 11:19:14 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to
 say that he is.  Anyone agree?


Well all you have to do is see all the yahoo and aol.com profiles, I really see nothing unusual, okay the gambling in the casino..I wonder where he gets the money?  Does he do it alot?

I heard he was an extasy dealer.


Cherry, be careful what you believe!  That is total hearsay!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.


i'm starting to feel that way as well.  he only knows information up to a point.  the point at which he left her either hysterical or sleeping.  after that, he does not know and neither does deepak or satish.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Kelly"
I am not sure what to think now. If he is infact changing his story again, then there needs to be a sense of panic for him right now, that is indeed covereing something very bad up!  This isnt looking good.  After all this pressure, i would think he would just confess to knowing where she was if she was alive...anyone agree?????  I just dont get that part..i want to thinkt here would be a good ending , but if these kids are not admitting that they kidnapped her and she is alive, then they must be holding "something" in.....Im suprised that the brothers have not just said It was all joran at this point!


I agree with you Kelly.. had to run in the room and plant myself in front of the tv set to listen.. Wonder if Joran knows anything about NH mom and Greta visiting his parents last evening..Hmmmm....maybes hes pooping his pants!!


Hey, can you post a lil summary of anything they say on fox if it is in fact new information..thanks..stuck at work and tryin to be discrete over here and the typing constatnly really gives it away lol :oops:


Sure no problem.. if anyone else has FOX on now too..maybe they can post as well.. My tv is on in the other room..I cant hear it real well..so I keep running back and forth when something is being said!! So far nothing more other then hes changing stories and has been taken to the prison.. they all have their own cells and not around one another. Fox also says that Croes ex feel she should be released and dont believe he has anything to do with this.. Croes still being held in the police station.. Also since Joran keeps changing stories.. its making it worse on the brothers.. they will be detained longer as well.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 11:20:54 AM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.


They wouldnt have made up the holiday Inn story if that story about leavin her at the beach was in fact true...there would have ben no need too...


Title: Re: Logical
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 11:21:52 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote

  Okay now the musical alibis.  One word Interrogation.  Police interrogation can break you down and make you confess to anthing.  So changing of stories migth be teh inaccurate version.  I almost have to say I am starting to believe the first story and give it more weight, no matter what supposely Deepak said.  Maybe it was a police tactic to sow discord among the group fearing that they must force a confession.  Do we have a confession..no?! Why not, for  all intense and purpose it should have been a 'simple' case.. well its not.


You make a good case for the websites, perhaps.

But, respectfully, you've got two directly contradictory views within this paragraph. If police interrogation can get someone to confess, yet it hasn't, it's hard to believe that it can get the same person to change his truth to a lie.  Especially under that kind of pressure, with your whole life hanging in the balance - there's no real motivation to lie particularly when it simply makes one look more guilty, not less. . Of course, that's just my take and everyone else's mileage may vary.  [/b]

Also, we don't know much of anything. We may think "there's nothing to see with those three" but police still do.  Which keeps them in the spot of most likely perps.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 11:22:11 AM
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


Title: Re: Seems quite normal..
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:22:30 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "amillerwvu"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Stera"
I couldn't agree with Cherry more. That's it in a nutshell. Kid has no limits...so there are no linmits to his behavior.


hello.. there must have been some limits.. or how did he have such high grade average and a offer for school in the us......?

By cheating?? :shock:


pretty hard to cheat your way to the high gpa he had....


I wonder if Joran is really the bad a** that some of us think.  Some of the things that he had on his tickle site and my spaces are some of the things I see my students doing....to make them look cool.  I wonder if we are not reading too much into those images and not actually seeing him as the boy that he is :?:  :?:  Perhaps he doesn't "think" he is a pimp, but it is "cool" to
 say that he is.  Anyone agree?


Well all you have to do is see all the yahoo and aol.com profiles, I really see nothing unusual, okay the gambling in the casino..I wonder where he gets the money?  Does he do it alot?

I heard he was an extasy dealer.


Cherry, be careful what you believe!  That is total hearsay!


I don't know Nancy Drew, many crimes committed drugs are involved. Let's wait and see.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:23:09 AM
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?


I thought Valentijn was the eldest which would make him older than 18 and the youngest son went to Holland with the mother.  Not to be snarly but it's not necessary to call the little one names.
 

I imagine if the travel dates are correct that the poor van der sloots were both majorly jet lagged when the big kaka hit the ventilator.  Valentijn is 14 the other kid 10 or 12.  What has their weight got to do with it people of the most obese nation on earth?  if the kids did not go with mom i think dad, big bro are enough supervision.  some of you sound like you are prison guards for helpless kids.  as somebody said, my kids have been fixing their own breakfast since they learned to pour milk.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:23:16 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "MissyRose"
Innocent people may not play musical alibies. But Scared People do. Especially when your whole families future and yours is riding on it....


Yes - do you remember being that age...how those things (parents' lives/reputations, parents' trust, etc.) seemed soooo HUGE?  This concept is much discussed around teen suicide, too - the way that things such as this are blown totally out of proportion in the minds of teens.


Everything is a DRAMA when youre a teenager no doubt about that. I dont think that drama leaves seriously until your in your 20s.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 11:23:29 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.



They wouldnt have made up the holiday Inn story if that story about leavin her at the beach was in fact true...there would have ben no need too...


in a way they would.  joran would know that leaving her on the beach by herself would definitely not be the "gentlemanly" thing to do.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 11:23:36 AM
Iquitos, here's the link I found, but I don't think it is the ame Lorenzo.
http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=ZOOOWYFHh2rBRTYD


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?


who is the little fat kid??


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 11:24:15 AM
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that since everyone was using that as an excuse for why he was so confrontational.)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 11:24:41 AM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.


They wouldnt have made up the holiday Inn story if that story about leavin her at the beach was in fact true...there would have ben no need too...


They might have.  Just to not come off sounding like jerks that left some girl alone on the beach in the middle of the night.


Title: story
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Red on June 22, 2005, 11:25:16 AM
Quote from: "RB"
This is certainly of interest, but let's not lose track of the central thread here. The last time Natalee was SEEN was with JORAN. So, from that point forward, the more important question should be where was HE?

That's exactly what the authorities would be trying to get to, to either confirm or debunk his story of this time, IMO.


You are correct and Joran has no alibi that anyone can confirm where he was,  that has not had a story changed. After his dad picked him up at McD's at 11pm and brought him home ... what then? Father doesn't even know as he has said, thought he was in bed.

Fox News reporting the Joran is changing his story. Ah? When hasn't he changed the story? Maybe the pressure is finally starting to take hold.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 11:25:20 AM
Cherry:

Of course there are alot of drug crimes!  But, we don't know if Joran is a drug dealer.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?


who is the little fat kid??

The youngest Van Der Sloot brother as seen in some of the family pictures.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 11:25:25 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "MissyRose"
Innocent people may not play musical alibies. But Scared People do. Especially when your whole families future and yours is riding on it....


Yes - do you remember being that age...how those things (parents' lives/reputations, parents' trust, etc.) seemed soooo HUGE?  This concept is much discussed around teen suicide, too - the way that things such as this are blown totally out of proportion in the minds of teens.


Everything is a DRAMA when youre a teenager no doubt about that. I dont think that drama leaves seriously until your in your 20s.


I think everything is a DRAMA on these message boards.


Title: Re: ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES SEX, LIES. AND VIDEOTAPE
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?
 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.


You don't have to yell. Natalee did not break any laws. She was in Aruba and abiding by their laws.


Title: Re: story
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 11:25:51 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?


Because the guards said so. Because nearly every MSM says so. If they told one consistent story from the beginning then they would have been let go by now.


Title: Re: story
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?


Aruban and international papers,  Joran's mother's story not fitting with the last listed scenario, Aruban and American commentators on the scene, including BHT.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 11:26:06 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "katya"
Joran seems like a typical teen for his social group. You simply can't judge him by US standards, everywhere else in the world teens are clubbing and drinking at Jorans age. US kids drink undeage all the time, too, they just sneak around or drink in cars..and which is more dangerous? Drinking in car or a casino?

I have never seen confirmation that Mr. VDS was in Holland, someone got a link?

Even if J was alone for two days, so what? All the MB students were away from parental supervision fir 5 days. He was only a few weeks from leaving for college.

I don't think that anyone as "depraved" as some of you seem to think he is, would be as successful in school and sports as he seems to be.


ok but who was watching valentijn and the little fat kid?


I thought Valentijn was the eldest which would make him older than 18 and the youngest son went to Holland with the mother.  Not to be snarly but it's not necessary to call the little one names.

Valentijn is Joran's younger brother and is approx 15.  He lied on his tickle site when he said he was 19.[/quote

Thanks for the correction.  The problem I find when I try to debate this case is that there is so much rumour and mis-information.  The last case I debated we were able to post links to back up facts and give out opinions based on these with an imo.  This is impossible with this case.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:26:18 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)

He did not HAVE to.  If I was guilty there is no way I would have let her.  I would have told them my lawyer prohibited me talking about it.  He did it out of kindness and wanting to help.  I really think that the parents are not to blame.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:27:01 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Cherry:

Of course there are alot of drug crimes!  But, we don't know if Joran is a drug dealer.


Nancy, I just said what I had heard, and that I would not be surprised if drugs are involved.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 11:27:35 AM
So, Uga, you think that when Beth showed up might even be the first time he knew she was missing.

He thought oh no, they will kill me if it tell them I left her asleep on a sand dune.

So he quickly says they took her to the hotel and then gets his friends to agree.

All of them expecting she will turn up.

And she never has.

Now how to get out of the lie.  That gets tough.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 11:28:07 AM
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


Well if it's true( we never know whats true with so many rumours ) about grilling them 11 hours a day in hot and cold rooms, I would say that would be torture and they wouldn't be the first person to admit to a crime they didn't do.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 11:28:51 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.

I think their original story may have been a knee jerk reaction. You figure, they were the last ones with her, if something in fact "bad happened" they probably discussed the story, then were confronted earlier then they expected, and maybe one or all of them messed up their planned story. It is also possible they hadnt had time to get the "kinks" out of the story before confronted. Then faced with some evidence they made it up, are now trying to make it fit some way.
In any case they lied, and to keep up a lie this long while facing jail time is odd at any age. That is the main reason I do think they had something to do with it. If you were just covering simple drug use, sneaking out, or whatever, thats one thing. They have to realize by now thats the least of their problem. So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?


Title: illegal things
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


Well if it's true( we never know whats true with so many rumours ) about grilling them 11 hours a day in hot and cold rooms, I would say that would be torture and they wouldn't be the first person to admit to a crime they didn't do.


Right but they haven't admitted to a crime yet? Why? My best guess is that the the penalty for whatever they did is worse than the interrogations, otherwise they would have already confessed in order to make them stop.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 11:30:54 AM
Lots of guessing today, proves one things nothing in this one is fact.


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?


No, in fact we often took our children on trips. We made them obey the laws there too.


Title: Re: story
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 11:31:06 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?



Good question, I thought the police were not allowed to share information.
And where are their lawyers?


Title: Re: story
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?



amen iquitos...the FACT is we don't KNOW much


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


Well we need to look for motivation,  Deepak may have changed his story because he may have wanted to distance himself and mostly his little brother from this case.  So what better way to say we dropped Joran and Natalee off, and drove away.  That is one possibility. You gonna have to refresh me on what the previous story was of Joran leaving Nat hysterical or sleeping on the beach?


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 11:32:27 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?


Who said they sent her there to do illegal things? YOu are being a bit presumptous there dont you think?  They might have just let her go because everyone else was going and they didn't want her to miss out.  No parent I know would send their child to a foreign country for the sole purpose of drinking and gambling.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 11:32:34 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
So, Uga, you think that when Beth showed up might even be the first time he knew she was missing.

He thought oh no, they will kill me if it tell them I left her asleep on a sand dune.

So he quickly says they took her to the hotel and then gets his friends to agree.

All of them expecting she will turn up.

And she never has.

Now how to get out of the lie.  That gets tough.


And thinking along those lines, in a typical teenage fashion, doesn't JVS want to get in trouble for the least transgression.  It's like saying, "Yes, Mom, I did drink a beer, but I didn't get drunk."  

But that doesn't shed any light on where NH is now.


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:32:47 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?



Most normal kids are going to do illegal things.  I grew up in a middle class neighborhood and most of my friends were all middle-highlass.  We were always allowed to go to Panama City Beach, unchaperoned, senior cruise, it happens, what Nats parents and Jorans parent allowed them to do is not unusual in any kind of way.


Title: Re: story
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 11:32:49 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
The thing is this if these guys are innocent then why did they change their original story?  If you guys think they are only changing because of the pressures of interrogation (which probably is unlikely in any situation but still possible)  then why haven't they confessed?  Changing their stories isn't going to make the interrogations stop, only make them worse.  If they were really cracking just because of the pressure then they would go all out with a confession to make it stop.  I think that joran probably indirectly or directly had something to do with Natalee's death.  The brothers probably did as well, but Im guessing to a lesser degree than Joran.  That's the reason they lied and invented a story in the first place.


how do we "know" they changed their story?


We dont, and that is the problem, that we dont know as much as we think/or may want to believe that we know.....that is what is so hard


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:33:23 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.

I agree. I mean he was running from cameras after being questioned. He knew this last time they saw him hiding in the bushes. He still didnt come forward right away, it wasnt until he KNEW they saw him he came to the gate. He then had two choices. Either invite them in and disspell any rumors they are hiding something, or turn them away and keep the rumor burning. Plus she said she was natalees mom, cameras rolling. Come on, common sense is you talk to her mother.


Title: Re: ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES SEX, LIES. AND VIDEOTAPE
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 11:33:52 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?
 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.


You don't have to yell. Natalee did not break any laws. She was in Aruba and abiding by their laws.


I agree with Iquitos. I'm sorry, but this is not the issue. It doesn't matter whether Joran or Natalee were good little bunnies or bad little bunnies, under someone else's notion of how teenagers should act. All that matters is what happened on the night Natalee disappeared.

JUST DON'T YELL. OKAY, PODNER?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 11:34:04 AM
Hi all :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: inthepacific on June 22, 2005, 11:34:11 AM
The only reason that I can see that these boys haven't cracked yet is because if they do confess, any of them, they know that what they are living in right now is going to be what they will be living in for along time to come. With their stories changing many times, I can't help but still think they know what happened to Natalee, whether accidental or on purpose.

Also, I'm sure that their lawyers have instructed them, "no body...no evidence...no conviction...hang in there...don't talk to anyone"


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 11:34:14 AM
Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states[/quote]

NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!![/quote]  

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: medleyrelay on June 22, 2005, 11:34:30 AM
I think it is ridiculous that people keep making a big deal out of breaking the law in regards to drinking etc - teens all over U. S. are drinking in highschool at parties - many of these parties are done even with the parents full knowledge - and all of these kids are underage - since our drinking age is 21! Have you people not heard of the problem on college campuses - underage drinking is all over! Why do you think this group from Alabama went to Aruba! I think it is crazy to come down on Joran for what kids in the U.S. do all the time - as for the gambling - well that seems to be a way of life there with the casinos and all - and plenty of the U.S. young people ingage in this thru Vegas, and on line gambling - betting on sports etc - we should not be so judgemental about the Aruban way of life in regards to these kids.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 22, 2005, 11:34:44 AM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.


They wouldnt have made up the holiday Inn story if that story about leavin her at the beach was in fact true...there would have ben no need too...


They might have.  Just to not come off sounding like jerks that left some girl alone on the beach in the middle of the night.


Good points, UGAMom.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Hi all :)


hey hannie...
have u had your coffee??? :roll:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:35:50 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.

I agree. I mean he was running from cameras after being questioned. He knew this last time they saw him hiding in the bushes. He still didnt come forward right away, it wasnt until he KNEW they saw him he came to the gate. He then had two choices. Either invite them in and disspell any rumors they are hiding something, or turn them away and keep the rumor burning. Plus she said she was natalees mom, cameras rolling. Come on, common sense is you talk to her mother.


Not when the law has your son and wont even talk to you about it.  He was REALLY nice.  She even appreciated it.  If Greata and someone came to my yard screaming out, I would be hesitant to talk, just for sake of the investigation.  I beleive he did that because they are both in the dark from le.


Title: Re: ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES SEX, LIES. AND VIDEOTAPE
Post by: bgcntry72 on June 22, 2005, 11:36:04 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Joran was unsupervised 17 yr old. His father was away working on his career. His mother could not control him and dismissed his bad behavior as boys will be boys. Both parents allowed him to drive, drink, gamble all illegal activities for a 17 yr old. Why was he never charged or fined for breaking these laws. And the Dad wants to be a judge!!! He also had his own apt he could come an go as he liked.
Who are they sorry for Joran or themselves as this will probably harm the father's career.


It seems he may have been on the island with no parents on the 27th and 28th.


On GVS last night it was reported the Dad was there, it was the Mom who was in Holland. The Dad picked him up at 11pm and brought him home.


The dad came back to aruba on the at 5pm on the 29th. The mother was not home on the 29th, 30th. I believe they were both away 27th and 28th.


I rest my case...the kid was under no supervision at all!


When I was a junior and senior in high school, my parents went to Europe and left me at home. During my senior year, they gave me increasing freedom, knowing I would soon be off to college. Joran was about to finish his senior year and leave for the States, so I don't think it's that big of a deal that they were a little lax or that they left him home alone.

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?
 

DID NATALEES PARENTS LET HER GO TO ARUBA DO THINGS ILLEGAL IN HER OWN GREAT STATE OF ALABAMA AND MOST OF THE OTHER STATES AT THE AGE OF 18?   WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?  NATALEE IS TWO OR THREE YEARS SHORT OF LEGAL DRINKING AND GAMBLING AGE IN THE US WHILE JORAN IS ONLY A MONTH SHORT IN ARUBA.  FOR GENERAL PURPOSES NATAEE AND JORAN ARE THE SAME AGE EDUCATIONALLY AND OTHERWISE.  TWO HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS ABOUT TO GO OUR IN THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN.  DOES DOING SOMETHING WE DON'T ALLOW IN THE US IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE IT BETTER?  I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST WE START A SECOND GUESS OTHER PEOPLE'S PARENTING SKILLS BOARD FOR THIS DRIVEL.


You don't have to yell. Natalee did not break any laws. She was in Aruba and abiding by their laws.


This whole 'quote' thing is neet-o.
I wonder how many quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes I can have on one post!
Some of you people are little more than well-wishing sob-sisters.
I love wading through 57 pages of you jagbags discussing what your children had for breakfast and what they are allowed to watch on tv before I can find some useful info.
Thanks loads.

BTW: Anyone remember the missing girl?


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!![/quote]  

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too[/quote]

Odd I never found foxwoods to be that way, the area all the way down to rebecca's steakhouse is almost resort town like. Almost gives off an ambiance like the Pocono's.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bgcntry72 on June 22, 2005, 11:36:45 AM
Now comes the part where someone calls me a troll.
Sound the alert, idiots.
 :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that since everyone was using that as an excuse for why he was so confrontational.)


And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.  maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room.  dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations.  they are very orderly and private.  and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:37:07 AM
Paul Reynolds.. NH Uncle will be on FOX at noon..


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 11:37:14 AM
Yes just now, a very strong one :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:38:08 AM
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.

I agree. I mean he was running from cameras after being questioned. He knew this last time they saw him hiding in the bushes. He still didnt come forward right away, it wasnt until he KNEW they saw him he came to the gate. He then had two choices. Either invite them in and disspell any rumors they are hiding something, or turn them away and keep the rumor burning. Plus she said she was natalees mom, cameras rolling. Come on, common sense is you talk to her mother.


Not when the law has your son and wont even talk to you about it.  He was REALLY nice.  She even appreciated it.  If Greata and someone came to my yard screaming out, I would be hesitant to talk, just for sake of the investigation.  I beleive he did that because they are both in the dark from le.

Thats also possible. i think though I would have spoken to her also. They had the opportinity to have a "mediator" of sorts with Greta there. It doesnt matter at this point, it seems to have been a win win situation for them both.


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 11:38:21 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too[/quote]

Odd I never found foxwoods to be that way, the area all the way down to rebecca's steakhouse is almost resort town like. Almost gives off an ambiance like the Pocono's.[/quote]

well then we have gone there different ways guy.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:38:27 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Yes just now, a very strong one :lol:


I know I cant eat much today, especially fatty foods, and I am so ill because I WANT MY PANCAKES!!!  It sucks!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.

I agree. I mean he was running from cameras after being questioned. He knew this last time they saw him hiding in the bushes. He still didnt come forward right away, it wasnt until he KNEW they saw him he came to the gate. He then had two choices. Either invite them in and disspell any rumors they are hiding something, or turn them away and keep the rumor burning. Plus she said she was natalees mom, cameras rolling. Come on, common sense is you talk to her mother.


Not when the law has your son and wont even talk to you about it.  He was REALLY nice.  She even appreciated it.  If Greata and someone came to my yard screaming out, I would be hesitant to talk, just for sake of the investigation.  I beleive he did that because they are both in the dark from le.

Thats also possible. i think though I would have spoken to her also. They had the opportinity to have a "mediator" of sorts with Greta there. It doesnt matter at this point, it seems to have been a win win situation for them both.



Yeah, Jorans mother seemed really touched by Beth, and Beth looked like she had just saw a ghost.  Bless her heart.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 11:40:06 AM
In fact UGA, the key to this mystery is that perhaps we need to think like teenagers--not adults and not criminals.

Chances really are that this was just a typical teenage meeting that went horribly wrong some how.  Joran sees a cute girl at the casino and knows (even if not specifically invited) that she will be at the club later that night.  They meet, dance, and decide to keep visiting after closing time.

It is her last night on the island, so they can't just say see you tomorrow.  

I don't think he needed drugs to get her to leave with him.

Yes they might have been involved.  Maybe not.

One minute they are leaving the club to spend time together--two young kids on the way to bright, bright futures.

By the time the group was to leave the hotel, something bad happened.


Such a tragedy.


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 11:40:15 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "tmwsiy"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"

Did your parents allow you to drink and go to Casinos? Did they knowingly allow you to break laws?


Thats quite a bit different!  Are you/Did you let your kids drive before they turned 16?  My parents let me drink before I was 21, hell I spend a few years in college before I turned 21 and I when I came home I had beers with my dad.

Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

do you send your kids offshore to do things that are illegal where you live?


Who said they sent her there to do illegal things? YOu are being a bit presumptous there dont you think?  They might have just let her go because everyone else was going and they didn't want her to miss out.  No parent I know would send their child to a foreign country for the sole purpose of drinking and gambling.


It was an all inclusive trip, with no *real* supervision. They knew this stuff was going to be available to them and unfortunatley for some it was probably their first experience with drinking and freedom. I know this is a wake up call for me because I probably would have let my child go too!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: RB on June 22, 2005, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
Now comes the part where someone calls me a troll.
Sound the alert, idiots.
 :lol:


Oh please.  You're not a troll, you're just a little, shall we say, abrupt?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
Now comes the part where someone calls me a troll.
Sound the alert, idiots.
 :lol:


troll   :x


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: da wench on June 22, 2005, 11:41:03 AM
Good morning, Monkeys.  What's goin on?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Professor"
Just an observation. Paulus van der Sloot HAD to invite Natalee's mom inside the house, since it was BEFORE 10 pm. (After all, everyone made such a big deal that the first time she showed up was in the wee hours of the morning, and that explains why he would have been so confrontational.)


Plus, you know -- cameras.  He took such a beating in the court of public opinion for running away the last time, if he had been rude, dismissive or ran away from her, it would only have been more incriminating. He was put on the spot. Handled it well, but that doesn't mean much, IMO.

I agree. I mean he was running from cameras after being questioned. He knew this last time they saw him hiding in the bushes. He still didnt come forward right away, it wasnt until he KNEW they saw him he came to the gate. He then had two choices. Either invite them in and disspell any rumors they are hiding something, or turn them away and keep the rumor burning. Plus she said she was natalees mom, cameras rolling. Come on, common sense is you talk to her mother.


Not when the law has your son and wont even talk to you about it.  He was REALLY nice.  She even appreciated it.  If Greata and someone came to my yard screaming out, I would be hesitant to talk, just for sake of the investigation.  I beleive he did that because they are both in the dark from le.

Thats also possible. i think though I would have spoken to her also. They had the opportinity to have a "mediator" of sorts with Greta there. It doesnt matter at this point, it seems to have been a win win situation for them both.



Yeah, Jorans mother seemed really touched by Beth, and Beth looked like she had just saw a ghost.  Bless her heart.


I also found it very nice of JVS mom to have hugged BHT and kissed her cheek.. shows compassion.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 11:42:14 AM
Quote from: "da wench"
Good morning, Monkeys.  What's goin on?


Same old same old. And it this case that sucks.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 11:42:26 AM
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some clothes on


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
Now comes the part where someone calls me a troll.
Sound the alert, idiots.
 :lol:


Not a troll, but perhaps rude.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 11:43:20 AM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
Now comes the part where someone calls me a troll.
Sound the alert, idiots.
 :lol:


Oh please.  You're not a troll, you're just a little, shall we say, abrupt?


But hey, at least you recognized it's all about bgcntry72 and gave him/her their needed props.  :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some close on


or maybe he s just sweatin his nutz off over all this......


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: "da wench"
Good morning, Monkeys.  What's goin on?


Morning wench.. well afternoon here..lol  :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bgcntry72 on June 22, 2005, 11:43:45 AM
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: TG on June 22, 2005, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 11:45:00 AM
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:45:26 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
Now comes the part where someone calls me a troll.
Sound the alert, idiots.
 :lol:


I just wanted to quote you!!!

I got your point no more quotes or fighting with others


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:45:58 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


i would have cracked along time ago.....maybe the turned up the pressure and now they are getting "disinformation" from them.. if all you know .. is all you know.. there s not much left to tell...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 11:46:14 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
If the statement that he left her on the beach, asleep or hysterical, is true, then maybe that is all he knows.  Even if he had given her a date rape drug or she was upset about something else.  

Perhaps, in order to cover the fact that he sneeked out and was last seen with this missing girl, he tried to present the story in the most favorable light.  Thinking that she would show up.  Now she hasn't, and he's having to fess up to things he'd rather keep hidden.


They wouldnt have made up the holiday Inn story if that story about leavin her at the beach was in fact true...there would have ben no need too...


They might have.  Just to not come off sounding like jerks that left some girl alone on the beach in the middle of the night.


Good points, UGAMom.


TRUE TRUE that is a good point!  Didnt think of that...


Title: am aruba
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:46:20 AM
am aruba.  another american busted.  nice way to get back. start arresting americans doing nasty things on the island.

  http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am22jun05.pdf


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:46:30 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.

Personally I am quite glad they didnt record their meeting together. How much can you really connect with someone in this situation when you know its going to be aired nationally? They were best to have the cameras off.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 11:46:43 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


I think that is believable up to the point of murder. That seems to be the switch that triggers unpredictable behaviors and answers.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: mojo on June 22, 2005, 11:46:57 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


i'm torn on this bgcntry - we know so little it's hard to make a real assessment. although the fact that no confession has been forthcoming lends credibility to your thoughts, it's not us who are facing 20 or so years in prison.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:47:03 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: inthepacific on June 22, 2005, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some close on


I agree with both of you, I think there are people here making a mountain out of a mole hill on this topic.

I mean, give me a break...how would any of you honestly act answering the gate to Mrs. Twitty under the circumstances. He wouldn't have known who the hell was at his gate. I'm sure he was flabergasted when he realized it was Mrs. twitty....last thing anyone would expect I'm sure. But hey!! He invited her in! Would any of you honestly have done that or would you have backed away and went back intp the house?  :roll:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:47:43 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


I wouldnt like being battered for 11 hours either..it is possbile something bigger happened.. perhaps they know that or they dont.. if they do.. that could mean they are scared shitless to talk. perhaps they were threatend or someone could have threatened their families. who knows..nobody knows anything.. how frustrating


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: medleyrelay on June 22, 2005, 11:48:06 AM
I totally agree that by now if they knew they would have talked - Joran was more of a spoiled teen not a tough street savy teen - either this goes much much higher up and they are in fear for telling or gee maybe they don't know - duh?????????? has anyone actually thought that??


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 11:48:18 AM
Sounds normal to me that you say in those circumstances "No cameras"'
What would you do? I don`t think ìt`s the same way in the US that parents of a suspect invite parents or media in their house in the same situation!


Title: Re: am aruba
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
am aruba.  another american busted.  nice way to get back. start arresting americans doing nasty things on the island.

  http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am22jun05.pdf


gunshots in paradise, is that a buffet song?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


If he had an agenda wouldn't he want the cameras on so it could be broadcast around the world in a nanosecond?  imo


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: da wench on June 22, 2005, 11:48:57 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "da wench"
Good morning, Monkeys.  What's goin on?


Morning wench.. well afternoon here..lol  :)


This is my last day at this law firm and believe it or not, I have a project to complete so I will not get to hang out here all day like I have been.  I liked my job until recently...but now I don't seem to want to do it...lol.  Anyway, I'll be in and out.  Hoping for some good news soon.


Title: Re: illegal things
Post by: Bill8268 on June 22, 2005, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Casinos and Drinking are not a big problem in Aruba and its not viewed the same as here in the states


NO I did not let my children drink or drive before the law said they could. Call me old fashion! I obey the laws!!
 

not what i heard!!!  why are aruban residence only allowed to go there a certain # of times per year???   Anyone who has been to FOXWOODS has gone thru the impoverished area along the way to the big glamorous casinoes...if RI resricted locals from blowing all their $ there perhaps things be different around that area / in the state too[/quote]

Odd I never found foxwoods to be that way, the area all the way down to rebecca's steakhouse is almost resort town like. Almost gives off an ambiance like the Pocono's.[/quote]

Very confused here.  What does Foxwoods have to do with Natalee.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 11:49:35 AM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


Been reading up from last night. I happen to agree with you but I think NH was the wrong girl.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:50:10 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "HannieC"
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some close on


I agree with both of you, I think there are people here making a mountain out of a mole hill on this topic.

I mean, give me a break...how would any of you honestly act answering the gate to Mrs. Twitty under the circumstances. He wouldn't have known who the hell was at his gate. I'm sure he was flabergasted when he realized it was Mrs. twitty....last thing anyone would expect I'm sure. But hey!! He invited her in! Would any of you honestly have done that or would you have backed away and went back intp the house?  :roll:


With all the media that has been hounding them at their house?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 11:50:17 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "HannieC"
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some close on



I agree with both of you, I think there are people here making a mountain out of a mole hill on this topic.

I mean, give me a break...how would any of you honestly act answering the gate to Mrs. Twitty under the circumstances. He wouldn't have known who the hell was at his gate. I'm sure he was flabergasted when he realized it was Mrs. twitty....last thing anyone would expect I'm sure. But hey!! He invited her in! Would any of you honestly have done that or would you have backed away and went back intp the house?  :roll:


There would have been at least 4 people at his gate and one has a big camera. Also he would not have known who greta is in all probability. Very slim chance.


Title: Re: am aruba
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 11:50:35 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
am aruba.  another american busted.  nice way to get back. start arresting americans doing nasty things on the island.

  http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am22jun05.pdf


It just said he was born in America. You don't really want to get back at us. We just want Natalee found. You do that and we'll come down in droves!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: TG on June 22, 2005, 11:50:46 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


I think his first words were "come in...please"  3 times he said it.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 11:50:50 AM
in about 10 minutes NH Uncle Paul Reynolds is going to be on FOX if anyone cares to watch.. they are going to question him as to JVS story changing again.. maybe he has some insight on something new? Maybe not...!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: da wench on June 22, 2005, 11:51:19 AM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


Been reading up from last night. I happen to agree with you but I think NH was the wrong girl.


What do you mean by wrong girl?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: joebob on June 22, 2005, 11:51:20 AM
Today at 11:48 AM, I'm thinking that the previous "he killed her" statement is true and that the police know what happened, but do not have enough evidence.  What they know is based on a third person account that is not an actual witness to the event. It was toned down to "something bad happened" as not to influence the investigation.

Now its 11:49, and after second thought, I'm really not so sure.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


I think his first words were "come in...please"  3 times he said it.



EXACTLY!


Title: Re: the bombshell email
Post by: Hubmd on June 22, 2005, 11:52:51 AM
Reading the statement, if it is true, the Natalee's family should questioned. Eventhough they might be innocent. At the same time there must not be excluded the presence of the people that came to Aruba for the Soul & Beach Festival.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Fluffy Monkey on June 22, 2005, 11:52:52 AM
Quote from: "momto5"

 So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?


I see I am thinking like several others of you here  --  because 'nothing to hide' is relative.  

The thing I keep thinking about is that I am reading he said "she was sleeping and hysterical" or something like that when he left her on the beach.  Avoiding the obvious contradiction here, I can easily see him trying to throw moves on her  and her winding up crying and telling him to 'leave her alone'  'go away' , things like that. Now, he thinks, in addition to being in trouble for sneaking out, clubbing, and drinking...   this girl may claim attempted rape.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:53:15 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "HannieC"
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some close on



I agree with both of you, I think there are people here making a mountain out of a mole hill on this topic.

I mean, give me a break...how would any of you honestly act answering the gate to Mrs. Twitty under the circumstances. He wouldn't have known who the hell was at his gate. I'm sure he was flabergasted when he realized it was Mrs. twitty....last thing anyone would expect I'm sure. But hey!! He invited her in! Would any of you honestly have done that or would you have backed away and went back intp the house?  :roll:


There would have been at least 4 people at his gate and one has a big camera. Also he would not have known who greta is in all probability. Very slim chance.


so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: inthepacific on June 22, 2005, 11:53:54 AM
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


I think his first words were "come in...please"  3 times he said it.


Yes you are right! First words were "come in, come in..."


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


Good morning/afternoon all! (((Hugs))

I agree Shell.

I certainly would not people with cameras in my home. I am sure it is more than likely, they have also (being Dutch citizens) been asked to not speak to the media due to legalities.

Most important thing to remember, instead of people STILL picking apart a rather heart felt meeting, is they did not have to ask her in or speak to her. But they asked her right off the bat almost not hearing that she wanted to give prayer card to them.

These are reserved private people, as well as Aruba itself. It is not like they are used to cameras chasing them around and "paparazzi" type behavior.


Title: Re: am aruba
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "iquitos"
am aruba.  another american busted.  nice way to get back. start arresting americans doing nasty things on the island.

  http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am22jun05.pdf


It just said he was born in America. You don't really want to get back at us. We just want Natalee found. You do that and we'll come down in droves!!
 

Yesterday's lead story in the same publication was about thearrest of an american with a bunch of coke on his person transitting the airport.  may be coincidence but could be start of campaign.  you want crime on aruba, well look what your people are doing here.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: RichinTx on June 22, 2005, 11:55:30 AM
IF any of the four suspects actually know what happened to Natalee then there can only be one reason why they are not breaking....they know for a fact that if they wait this thing out they will get off.  The reason the stories change is because they are lies which are morphing to follow the path of least resistance.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 22, 2005, 11:57:17 AM
Quote from: "RichinTx"
IF any of the four suspects actually know what happened to Natalee then there can only be one reason why they are not breaking....they know for a fact that if they wait this thing out they will get off.  The reason the stories change is because they are lies which are morphing to follow the path of least resistance.


Even the FBI guy on CNN yesterday said that they are going to blow this case if they dont find a body, even in Dutch law systems if thee is no body hard time trying them.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "HannieC"
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some close on



I agree with both of you, I think there are people here making a mountain out of a mole hill on this topic.

I mean, give me a break...how would any of you honestly act answering the gate to Mrs. Twitty under the circumstances. He wouldn't have known who the hell was at his gate. I'm sure he was flabergasted when he realized it was Mrs. twitty....last thing anyone would expect I'm sure. But hey!! He invited her in! Would any of you honestly have done that or would you have backed away and went back intp the house?  :roll:


There would have been at least 4 people at his gate and one has a big camera. Also he would not have known who greta is in all probability. Very slim chance.


so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


After the running to my car situation. nuff said. He isn't a big fan of the big camera.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: inthepacific on June 22, 2005, 11:58:01 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"

And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras.  He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns.  very awkward, and very dutch.


Looked to me like he darted out as soon as Beth said she was Natalees mom.


And the first words were "no cameras" if I recall.


He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.



Good morning/afternoon all! (((Hugs))

I agree Shell.

I certainly would not people with cameras in my home. I am sure it is more than likely, they have also (being Dutch citizens) been asked to not speak to the media due to legalities.

Most important thing to remember, instead of people STILL picking apart a rather heart felt meeting, is they did not have to ask her in or speak to her. But they asked her right off the bat almost not hearing that she wanted to give prayer card to them.

These are reserved private people, as well as Aruba itself. It is not like they are used to cameras chasing them around and "paparazzi" type behavior.


EXACTLY!! Good point Caligirl


Title: Unreal....on ArubaAM....
Post by: bgcntry72 on June 22, 2005, 11:58:02 AM
Comment
Aruba: Natalee Holloway Would Have Been a One Day Story if Her Name was Lateefah
by: Steve Yuhas
Michael Jackson was found not guilty, Scott Peterson is on death row, there is no “missing” bride to be and Nancy Grace doesn’t have much to talk (or cry) about so it was wonderful when the story of a missing American in Aruba fell right into cable news show laps. The problem with the coverage that 18-year-old Natalee Holloway’s “disappearance” is generating is not that it is being covered, after all it is a story when a person goes missing, but it has been at the top of virtually every newscast for over a month and even I (normally not a skeptical race carder) am wondering if Natalee was named Lateefah (African for gentle or pleasant) if the cable news world would be fixated on her disappearance.
Holloway went missing on May 30th, it is now almost the end of June and still her disappearance is leading the news as if President Bush did not announce he will visit Vietnam, the Congress remains embattled over nominations, American cities are on the verge of bankruptcy and that there is something particularly special about Natalee Holloway. In what should have been a one or two day story where nothing new has been learned, except that the black men taken into custody initially have been released and no charges were conferred against them, the media is fixated on Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot – a 17-year-old being held along with three others in Aruba.
Van der Sloot is the son of an Arubian judge so a judge from a neighboring island, Curacao, was assigned to a case that is quickly growing out of control. Justice officials in Aruba say it is not unusual that in high profile cases that judges come from neighboring islands to assist local judges and keeping Van der Sloot in custody will give police time to either rule him out or create a case against him. Holloway, from Alabama, went to Aruba, a safe island that boasted only one murder in all of 2004, to celebrate her graduation from high school with 124 classmates and 40 chaperones. News appearances by her family suggest that Holloway is the epitome of virtue and that whatever befell her had to be the work of sinister forces, but one has to wonder – why Aruba?As stores sell out of yellow ribbons in her hometown and FBI agents and all of the resources of the Arubian government (including the Prime Minister of the Dutch colony, Nelson Oduber, who told a television audience that finding Holloway was the “number one goal” of the island) are focused on finding the US citizen questions concerning what Holloway was doing the night she presumably vanished have to be asked. It is not enough for Nancy Grace to cry every night or for Greta Van Susteren to take up residence in Aruba to cover the story – no we need more so every night for the last month no news means a full hour of talking about the same thing over and over again.
This is what we know: Natalee Holloway was visiting Aruba, she was staying at the Holiday Inn and on the night before she was to return to the United States she went to a Boyz II Men concert at Surfside beach, stayed until closing time (1:00am) at a bar called Carlos ‘N Charlie’s and was wearing a blue-and-green striped, low-cut blouse, denim miniskirt and sandals. That’s it – that is all we know yet every cable network has not only followed the story, but updates us every hour on the hour with no news to report and reporters are now making the peaceful and safe island of Aruba out to be something akin to visiting Mexico without sufficient bribe money for police officers.
Holloway is consistently described by news outlets as a “teenager” as if she was not of legal age or she had just received her driver’s permit. It is true that she is eighteen, but in Aruba that is old enough to get into bars and clubs and drink the night away (witnesses say that Holloway was drinking the night she disappeared and throughout her stay); Holloway is a missing person, a grown woman, and the idea that this case has become so blown out of proportion baffles me. There is nothing significant about it insofar as a grown woman is missing, there are tons of them all over the United States and the world, but for some reason the blonde hair and consistent statements of her family that she was a “good girl” and her disappearing is “out of character” for her continue to get air play.
I’m not so naïve not to understand that when the news is slow and when your fame and fortune depends on major, high profile cases falling into your lap so that your angry and vitriolic tone can help boost ratings for CNN that you don’t jump at the chance to cover and cry over a story (read: Nancy Grace), but for Greta Van Susteren to cover the case with such vigor is overkill for someone who typically balances out the sensational with the standard and mundane, yet important, legal issues of the day. Something has to explain what it is about Holloway that makes her disappearance so special and the disappearance of so many people that are just normal every day people that they make the headlines so often.
There is no other explanation for the coverage of Natalee Holloway’s disappearance from Aruba and the continuous coverage of it other than the fact that she is a pretty white girl who presumably went missing in Aruba at the suspected hands of an important justice official. Had Natalee been black and had she went missing in Jamaica, I hardly think that Nancy or Greta would be crying (well Nancy would cry because that is what makes Nancy Grace who she is) or taking up residence there. We’ve seen this story play out too many times for me not to believe that there is something about how a presumed victim looks that drives the coverage and that is a sad admission for me to make.
Holloway is a grown woman who went to Aruba because she wanted to have a good time, yes there were chaperones, but where were they when she was in a bar drinking with folks she may have known only for a few days or a week? Where were the chaperones when night fell and the bars closed knowing that she had a plane to catch the next morning to check on her to make sure she was okay? The chaperone to student ratio during her trip was better than the guest to staff rate at a five star hotel – surely someone should have noticed that she was not there. More importantly though: why did Holloway leave, as witnesses have accounted many times, in a car with people if she was the virtuous girl that she was when the bar closed when she should have gone to bed?These are questions that the news simply won’t ask a grieving family looking for their loved one, but someone has to start asking why this story is getting so much attention. Holloway is a grown woman who may have left Aruba on her own accord or may have been the victim of foul play – either way the story is old and tiresome and it almost makes me miss the days of slow speed helicopter coverage of the Michael Jackson convoy arriving at court or the Peterson jury deliberation clock that appeared when the jury was in session.
I’m not a race baiter and not someone who typically looks for trends concerning race, beauty or victim- hood, but in this case there is no other explanation for the amount of coverage Natalee Holloway received for not making her plane back to Mississippi from Aruba. I hate to say it, but there may be something to the notion that it pays to have white skin when it comes to disappearing because I don’t know the face of a single missing black or brown person, but I know plenty of white ones and the one I have seen for a full month has been Natalee Holloway.
I hope they find out what happened to her, if anything, and that she return home safely, but if that is not the case I find myself hoping that one day I’ll recognize a missing black woman when she disappears and hear her mother’s pleas for a safe return in the same volume as I’ve heard for a grown woman from Alabama.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: deepthroat2 on June 22, 2005, 11:58:03 AM
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 11:58:11 AM
Rob wrote:

Quote
so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


Sorry Rob I have to disagree on that. We are not used to have cameras in front of our nose,I know i as a dutch would react excactly the same, and by the way I don`t think it is typically dutch .


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 11:58:13 AM
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "momto5"

 So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?


I see I am thinking like several others of you here  --  because 'nothing to hide' is relative.  

The thing I keep thinking about is that I am reading he said "she was sleeping and hysterical" or something like that when he left her on the beach.  Avoiding the obvious contradiction here, I can easily see him trying to throw moves on her  and her winding up crying and telling him to 'leave her alone'  'go away' , things like that. Now, he thinks, in addition to being in trouble for sneaking out, clubbing, and drinking...   this girl may claim attempted rape.


That seems like a likely scenario.  But still doesn't lead to where she is.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 11:58:14 AM
iquitos, there appears on the face of it to be roughly 7 or 8 major crimes committed in the last 23 days.... thats one evry two to three days.. wonder whats coming next? there is something going on....!!!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "momto5"

 So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?


I see I am thinking like several others of you here  --  because 'nothing to hide' is relative.  

The thing I keep thinking about is that I am reading he said "she was sleeping and hysterical" or something like that when he left her on the beach.  Avoiding the obvious contradiction here, I can easily see him trying to throw moves on her  and her winding up crying and telling him to 'leave her alone'  'go away' , things like that. Now, he thinks, in addition to being in trouble for sneaking out, clubbing, and drinking...   this girl may claim attempted rape.


See I dont see what she would be hysterical about? It leaves alot of room for speculation. Plus like you said the obvious contradcition you cant sleep and be hysterical at the same time. Unless she was convulsing or something like that. Still though I wouldnt consider that hysterics.


Title: sleeping beauty
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:00:11 PM
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 12:00:42 PM
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote

He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


I'm not blaming them for anything. My first instinct would also be a request to remove the cameras. But that doesn't automatically equate with innocence or guilt. Without knowing his true motivation, it's meaningless.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 12:00:54 PM
I would like to slap the sh*t out of steve yuhas.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:01:01 PM
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Rob wrote:

Quote
so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


Sorry Rob I have to disagree on that. We are not used to have cameras in front of our nose,I know i as a dutch would react excactly the same, and by the way I don`t think it is typically dutch .



 if my son were innocent i would want the whole world to hear my side of it... ms twitty is getting a lotta face time... vd sloot missed his opportunity....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cents on June 22, 2005, 12:02:05 PM
This whole thing is nuts, who in the US is going to show up at suspects parents house with the media and expect to be invivted in? I understand the missing girls mothers feelings, but you don't have the right to just show up in this situation. They are trying to protect their son, innocent or guilty. All of this the I'm an and I am gonna American Push you Around Syndrome" This is their country, Americans are guests, the FBI has no business down there. When you travel you follow the rules in the country that you visit. We don't import US law to Aruba. I hope they get it all resolved, but this is not the way to shove our Tabloid News people through the doors all over the world. Insane.


Title: Re: am aruba
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "iquitos"
am aruba.  another american busted.  nice way to get back. start arresting americans doing nasty things on the island.

  http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am22jun05.pdf


It just said he was born in America. You don't really want to get back at us. We just want Natalee found. You do that and we'll come down in droves!!
 

Yesterday's lead story in the same publication was about thearrest of an american with a bunch of coke on his person transitting the airport.  may be coincidence but could be start of campaign.  you want crime on aruba, well look what your people are doing here.


I know Aruba is a drug stop over becuase of it location. We don't want crime on your island. I know the DEA works closely with your government. We only want Natalee returned. If you can help with that, you'd be helping Aruba.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "HannieC"
Rob wrote:

Quote
so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


Sorry Rob I have to disagree on that. We are not used to have cameras in front of our nose,I know i as a dutch would react excactly the same, and by the way I don`t think it is typically dutch .



 if my son were innocent i would want the whole world to hear my side of it... ms twitty is getting a lotta face time... vd sloot missed his opportunity....


It seems with the way information does not flow from LE that would jeopardize JVDS even more. 116 days of being held would be a drop in the bucket and MR. VDS would be held then for sure. A media show would surely qualify for obstruction.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "momto5"

 So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?


I see I am thinking like several others of you here  --  because 'nothing to hide' is relative.  

The thing I keep thinking about is that I am reading he said "she was sleeping and hysterical" or something like that when he left her on the beach.  Avoiding the obvious contradiction here, I can easily see him trying to throw moves on her  and her winding up crying and telling him to 'leave her alone'  'go away' , things like that. Now, he thinks, in addition to being in trouble for sneaking out, clubbing, and drinking...   this girl may claim attempted rape.




See I dont see what she would be hysterical about? It leaves alot of room for speculation. Plus like you said the obvious contradcition you cant sleep and be hysterical at the same time. Unless she was convulsing or something like that. Still though I wouldnt consider that hysterics.


If she was given some drug, say she freaked out, passed out, and that's when he leaves.  Maybe calls the 4th suspect, because that's where he got the drug, and the 4th one takes over.  Finds NH unconscious  or ? and either arranges for her to be hidden, taken off the island or disposed of.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 12:05:06 PM
Rob wrote:

if my son were innocent i would want the whole world to hear my side of it... ms twitty is getting a lotta face time... vd sloot missed his opportunity....


That`s because in the US with such cases it is 'standard'to appear in the media , we as dutch don`t work that way sorry so we`re not used to the same mediathing as americans are.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 12:05:21 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Ditto. I was taken in and questioned to determine the details of  terrible accident involving my own child.  How's that for double pressure? :)  And I remembered every detail. Still do, ten years later. And the story has never varied.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 12:05:21 PM
Morning All! I just came from Mountain Brook (the dentist, ugghh) and it is a beautiful sight. Nearly every mailbox and business has a yellow ribbon, it was very touching....

I tried to get some of the Hope For Natalee bracelets, but they were sold out. I am supposed to call tommorow to see if the new shipment is in yet....

Any new news or rumors?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 22, 2005, 12:05:54 PM
Looking forward to seeing what this 'JVDS changing stories' is all about. Most likely a rehash of what's already out there.

Having said that, I'm still wondering why the focus of the media attention is on JVDS. What about the Kalpoes? Why haven't we heard more 'seedy' details about them? Why haven't his parents been followed by cameras? Haven't they been in contact with their mother (from what I can gather, the parents are divorced and the mother remarried)? Wouldn't someone visit them when they were detained at the police station and later the prison?

Intuitively, whatever 'sources' the MSM have, they must be pointing towards JVDS being the primary suspect. I can't believe that the MSM would be taking the huge risk of identifying him as the primary suspect, without some solid basis.

The more we follow this case, the more we realize we don't know anything *sigh* just had to get that off my chest.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:06:10 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Right, but these girls weren't victims of a crime, and probably had been drinking. I can easily see them forgetting or just simply being misinformed or making a mistake because of being on tv (the tzxi comment for intsance).  It makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that they are lying about mundane details.


Title: Re: Unreal....on ArubaAM....
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
Comment
Aruba: Natalee Holloway Would Have Been a One Day Story if Her Name was Lateefah
by: Steve Yuhas
Michael Jackson was found not guilty, Scott Peterson is on death row, there is no “missing” bride to be and Nancy Grace doesn’t have much to talk (or cry) about so it was wonderful when the story of a missing American in Aruba fell right into cable news show laps. The problem with the coverage that 18-year-old Natalee Holloway’s “disappearance” is generating is not that it is being covered, after all it is a story when a person goes missing, but it has been at the top of virtually every newscast for over a month and even I (normally not a skeptical race carder) am wondering if Natalee was named Lateefah (African for gentle or pleasant) if the cable news world would be fixated on her disappearance.
Holloway went missing on May 30th, it is now almost the end of June and still her disappearance is leading the news as if President Bush did not announce he will visit Vietnam, the Congress remains embattled over nominations, American cities are on the verge of bankruptcy and that there is something particularly special about Natalee Holloway. In what should have been a one or two day story where nothing new has been learned, except that the black men taken into custody initially have been released and no charges were conferred against them, the media is fixated on Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot – a 17-year-old being held along with three others in Aruba.
Van der Sloot is the son of an Arubian judge so a judge from a neighboring island, Curacao, was assigned to a case that is quickly growing out of control. Justice officials in Aruba say it is not unusual that in high profile cases that judges come from neighboring islands to assist local judges and keeping Van der Sloot in custody will give police time to either rule him out or create a case against him. Holloway, from Alabama, went to Aruba, a safe island that boasted only one murder in all of 2004, to celebrate her graduation from high school with 124 classmates and 40 chaperones. News appearances by her family suggest that Holloway is the epitome of virtue and that whatever befell her had to be the work of sinister forces, but one has to wonder – why Aruba?As stores sell out of yellow ribbons in her hometown and FBI agents and all of the resources of the Arubian government (including the Prime Minister of the Dutch colony, Nelson Oduber, who told a television audience that finding Holloway was the “number one goal” of the island) are focused on finding the US citizen questions concerning what Holloway was doing the night she presumably vanished have to be asked. It is not enough for Nancy Grace to cry every night or for Greta Van Susteren to take up residence in Aruba to cover the story – no we need more so every night for the last month no news means a full hour of talking about the same thing over and over again.
This is what we know: Natalee Holloway was visiting Aruba, she was staying at the Holiday Inn and on the night before she was to return to the United States she went to a Boyz II Men concert at Surfside beach, stayed until closing time (1:00am) at a bar called Carlos ‘N Charlie’s and was wearing a blue-and-green striped, low-cut blouse, denim miniskirt and sandals. That’s it – that is all we know yet every cable network has not only followed the story, but updates us every hour on the hour with no news to report and reporters are now making the peaceful and safe island of Aruba out to be something akin to visiting Mexico without sufficient bribe money for police officers.
Holloway is consistently described by news outlets as a “teenager” as if she was not of legal age or she had just received her driver’s permit. It is true that she is eighteen, but in Aruba that is old enough to get into bars and clubs and drink the night away (witnesses say that Holloway was drinking the night she disappeared and throughout her stay); Holloway is a missing person, a grown woman, and the idea that this case has become so blown out of proportion baffles me. There is nothing significant about it insofar as a grown woman is missing, there are tons of them all over the United States and the world, but for some reason the blonde hair and consistent statements of her family that she was a “good girl” and her disappearing is “out of character” for her continue to get air play.
I’m not so naïve not to understand that when the news is slow and when your fame and fortune depends on major, high profile cases falling into your lap so that your angry and vitriolic tone can help boost ratings for CNN that you don’t jump at the chance to cover and cry over a story (read: Nancy Grace), but for Greta Van Susteren to cover the case with such vigor is overkill for someone who typically balances out the sensational with the standard and mundane, yet important, legal issues of the day. Something has to explain what it is about Holloway that makes her disappearance so special and the disappearance of so many people that are just normal every day people that they make the headlines so often.
There is no other explanation for the coverage of Natalee Holloway’s disappearance from Aruba and the continuous coverage of it other than the fact that she is a pretty white girl who presumably went missing in Aruba at the suspected hands of an important justice official. Had Natalee been black and had she went missing in Jamaica, I hardly think that Nancy or Greta would be crying (well Nancy would cry because that is what makes Nancy Grace who she is) or taking up residence there. We’ve seen this story play out too many times for me not to believe that there is something about how a presumed victim looks that drives the coverage and that is a sad admission for me to make.
Holloway is a grown woman who went to Aruba because she wanted to have a good time, yes there were chaperones, but where were they when she was in a bar drinking with folks she may have known only for a few days or a week? Where were the chaperones when night fell and the bars closed knowing that she had a plane to catch the next morning to check on her to make sure she was okay? The chaperone to student ratio during her trip was better than the guest to staff rate at a five star hotel – surely someone should have noticed that she was not there. More importantly though: why did Holloway leave, as witnesses have accounted many times, in a car with people if she was the virtuous girl that she was when the bar closed when she should have gone to bed?These are questions that the news simply won’t ask a grieving family looking for their loved one, but someone has to start asking why this story is getting so much attention. Holloway is a grown woman who may have left Aruba on her own accord or may have been the victim of foul play – either way the story is old and tiresome and it almost makes me miss the days of slow speed helicopter coverage of the Michael Jackson convoy arriving at court or the Peterson jury deliberation clock that appeared when the jury was in session.
I’m not a race baiter and not someone who typically looks for trends concerning race, beauty or victim- hood, but in this case there is no other explanation for the amount of coverage Natalee Holloway received for not making her plane back to Mississippi from Aruba. I hate to say it, but there may be something to the notion that it pays to have white skin when it comes to disappearing because I don’t know the face of a single missing black or brown person, but I know plenty of white ones and the one I have seen for a full month has been Natalee Holloway.
I hope they find out what happened to her, if anything, and that she return home safely, but if that is not the case I find myself hoping that one day I’ll recognize a missing black woman when she disappears and hear her mother’s pleas for a safe return in the same volume as I’ve heard for a grown woman from Alabama.
 

IF YOU FOLKS DID NOT CATCH IT, THIS TOO WAS IN TODAY'S AM ARUBA.  IT IS THE ONLY STORY ON NATALEE IN THIS PUBLICATION TODAY,  AN ARUBA US PUBLISHED IN ENGLISH AND AND PRESUMABLY PASSED OT TO TOURISTS ON THE ISLAND.  NOT A PRETTY MESSAGE.BTW I AM NOT YELLING. THIS IS SO YOU CAN SEE ME BETTER.  IF I YELL YOU WILL NOTICE NO MATTER WHICH CASE.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:07:08 PM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote

He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


I'm not blaming them for anything. My first instinct would also be a request to remove the cameras. But that doesn't automatically equate with innocence or guilt. Without knowing his true motivation, it's meaningless.


Agreed LilOrphan.

Everyone reads so much into things that don't matter.

What has happened to anyone truly being moved by such a wonderful display of respect. How many familes involved in crimes (accussed, victims etc) come together NICELY on a common ground in a such a respectful manner.

I was touched and frankly, I am getting really tired of people spending a majority of their time, in what has been a new american past time it seems, picking apart people and their actions.

I swear it seems no one can do right in some of your eyes. They have son sitting in jail/prison. They are victims too. If their son has truly done something, is it right to convict the family too? No, it's not.

Furthermore, if you want to speculate etc. just keep in mind, everyone and I will repeat everyone on both side of this mystery can not keep their story/facts straight.


Title: Re: am aruba
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:07:59 PM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "iquitos"
am aruba.  another american busted.  nice way to get back. start arresting americans doing nasty things on the island.

  http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am22jun05.pdf


It just said he was born in America. You don't really want to get back at us. We just want Natalee found. You do that and we'll come down in droves!!
 

Yesterday's lead story in the same publication was about thearrest of an american with a bunch of coke on his person transitting the airport.  may be coincidence but could be start of campaign.  you want crime on aruba, well look what your people are doing here.


I know Aruba is a drug stop over becuase of it location. We don't want crime on your island. I know the DEA works closely with your government. We only want Natalee returned. If you can help with that, you'd be helping Aruba.


ladies and gentleman.. i would like to set the record straight on this issue... first of all at the airport there are two or three planes that have that dish thing on top. they search the skies for drug trafficers. it is not an easy as you might think to bring drugs in to aruba.. second they have a coast guard, they have a huge ship with giant guns on the front..its not so easy to get drugs into the country...you can find drugs anywhere, but at least i see them making an effort to keep em out....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 12:08:10 PM
written by steve yuhas. that's why I wanted to slap the sh*t out of him


Title: Aruba
Post by: Vorpman on June 22, 2005, 12:08:26 PM
Aruba is finally playing the race card in its latest addition of is newspaper.   I was a supporter of this Island, but events over the last few weeks and now this article lend me to the belief that our tourism dollars should go else where.   Articles like this  give that crazy loon Dee Fine amo.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 12:08:45 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Rob wrote:

Quote
so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


Sorry Rob I have to disagree on that. We are not used to have cameras in front of our nose,I know i as a dutch would react excactly the same, and by the way I don`t think it is typically dutch .


I've got to agree with Hannie on this.  No one knows what it's like to have national and international media descend on your community unless you've been there.  I've been on a story where this happened for an extended period of time.  It is a huge presence and far different than having one camera clicking!!!  It's a huge invasion even for tough Amercan cities.  And most of them not great reporters doing in-depth coverage of a story.  They are there for soundbites and quick fixes.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"


I swear it seems no one can do right in some of your eyes. They have son sitting in jail/prison. They are victims too. If their son has truly done something, is it right to convict the family too? No, it's not.


Agree completely.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: icey on June 22, 2005, 12:09:07 PM
Here's my worry....

If there is a possibility the Natalee is still alive, it would seem that the local police, FBI and the families are not persuing it. For example if there was a small hint of a kidnaping and a trip off the island, I would think we would hear about the inquires and searches conducted elsewhere.  I would find this possibility almost more horrific than an a possible kiiling. No trail, no leads, have to search everywhere, continual horror for Natalee that would probably eventually lead to her death anyway, possibily years later.

Everyone seems to be focused on Aruba, so that leads me to believe that the police, fbi and possibly the family believe Natalee is no longer alive and that a body needs to be found to make the charges stick.

I believe the report from over a week ago, that "something bad happened" and "he will lead us to the body" were actually correct, but someone told the suspect/s to shut-up.

I would think the 4th suspect either supplied the drugs or a boat, or both. I believe the body was dumped in the ocean, possibly a couple miles out. That would provide the suspects with the convidence to shut up. Perhaps let them know a water search is under way with "special equip", and maybe someone will get nervious.

As for the changing stories, it make it look like they are covering up a more serious issue like a death.

If they really "sold" or traded her for a drug/gambling debt, it would be an easy story to tell. Just say that they were "on the beach, and guys with guns took her away and threatened to kill us if we talked". No need for real details, just enough to show that a death did not occur and put the authorities on another path with no real details

icey


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 12:09:27 PM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Quote from: "momto5"

 So why not just tell the truth if they dont have anything at all to hide?


I see I am thinking like several others of you here  --  because 'nothing to hide' is relative.  

The thing I keep thinking about is that I am reading he said "she was sleeping and hysterical" or something like that when he left her on the beach.  Avoiding the obvious contradiction here, I can easily see him trying to throw moves on her  and her winding up crying and telling him to 'leave her alone'  'go away' , things like that. Now, he thinks, in addition to being in trouble for sneaking out, clubbing, and drinking...   this girl may claim attempted rape.




See I dont see what she would be hysterical about? It leaves alot of room for speculation. Plus like you said the obvious contradcition you cant sleep and be hysterical at the same time. Unless she was convulsing or something like that. Still though I wouldnt consider that hysterics.


If she was given some drug, say she freaked out, passed out, and that's when he leaves.  Maybe calls the 4th suspect, because that's where he got the drug, and the 4th one takes over.  Finds NH unconscious  or ? and either arranges for her to be hidden, taken off the island or disposed of.

Possible, but again this is all speculation at this point  :?
The 4th suspect I dont know, everything I have read about him, seems as if he overheard something, or just covered for them. Maybe there is more to it, but I would have to think as an older person (hes 26 right) with a child he would have far more to lose. That leads me to believe he would sing like a bird to cover his own butt.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: LostinTime on June 22, 2005, 12:10:17 PM
Has anyone heard from DJTAYLOR she hasn't posted since Monday, just wondering if she had her baby...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: sandy on June 22, 2005, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "HannieC"
Rob wrote:

Quote
so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


Sorry Rob I have to disagree on that. We are not used to have cameras in front of our nose,I know i as a dutch would react excactly the same, and by the way I don`t think it is typically dutch .



 if my son were innocent i would want the whole world to hear my side of it... ms twitty is getting a lotta face time... vd sloot missed his opportunity....


I disagree - I had a nasty situation happen last Fall where a matter I was involved in was on the front page of our local paper every day and I was being called by the press to comment - I refused because, although I could have defended myself, I felt any discussion in the public had a reasonable chance of being twisted further against me - by the way, I got the last laugh.


Title: iquitos
Post by: Vorpman on June 22, 2005, 12:10:50 PM
iquitos, no justification for this article.  What do they want to do, tell tourists not to come to Aruba?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 12:11:11 PM
written by steve yuhas. that's why I wanted to slap the sh*t out of him


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:11:59 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Right, but these girls weren't victims of a crime, and probably had been drinking. I can easily see them forgetting or just simply being misinformed or making a mistake because of being on tv (the tzxi comment for intsance).  It makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that they are lying about mundane details.


But when you decide to put yourself on the air, I think you would tend more to go with the known and verified facts.

Like I have always said, I am different. I most certainly would have remember the morning no one could find her. I am curious if they were the ones to report it and immediately give information, why does BH and all of us have a completely different timeline, picture etc.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: Mom in Ark on June 22, 2005, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


I also wonder about the rumors that he was brused up the next day.  If he WAS injured, couldn't possibly someone else have been involved who he is afraid of and who could have beat the crap out of him?


Title: Re: Aruba
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:12:53 PM
Quote from: "Vorpman"
Aruba is finally playing the race card in its latest addition of is newspaper.   I was a supporter of this Island, but events over the last few weeks and now this article lend me to the belief that our tourism dollars should go else where.   Articles like this  give that crazy loon Dee Fine amo.


Odd because some would say the same things about being "lost" or "missing" in america. Yet now we wanna cut off Aruba for saying the same thing that minorities feel here.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Catriana on June 22, 2005, 12:13:21 PM
I don't think this is staying in the news because Natalee is blonde, or because she is white.   This is staying in the news and our minds because of the determination of one strong individual and that is...

NATALEE'S MOTHER!


She won't let it die away or fade out... as she said, so many times, she isn't leaving Aruba without Natalee.

Period!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:15:19 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote

He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


I'm not blaming them for anything. My first instinct would also be a request to remove the cameras. But that doesn't automatically equate with innocence or guilt. Without knowing his true motivation, it's meaningless.


Agreed LilOrphan.

Everyone reads so much into things that don't matter.

What has happened to anyone truly being moved by such a wonderful display of respect. How many familes involved in crimes (accussed, victims etc) come together NICELY on a common ground in a such a respectful manner.

I was touched and frankly, I am getting really tired of people spending a majority of their time, in what has been a new american past time it seems, picking apart people and their actions.

I swear it seems no one can do right in some of your eyes. They have son sitting in jail/prison. They are victims too. If their son has truly done something, is it right to convict the family too? No, it's not.

Furthermore, if you want to speculate etc. just keep in mind, everyone and I will repeat everyone on both side of this mystery can not keep their story/facts straight.


who made the vd sloots victims?   i think we all know... dont try that old trick of shifting the blame with me.. this reminds me of the mendez brothers, when being sentenced to prision the defense attorney had the gall to say" do nt be to harsh on these boys, after all they have no parents".....please.........


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: "Catriana"
I don't think this is staying in the news because Natalee is blonde, or because she is white.   This is staying in the news and our minds because of the determination of one strong individual and that is...

NATALEE'S MOTHER!


She won't let it die away or fade out... as she said, so many times, she isn't leaving Aruba without Natalee.

Period!


I dont blame the woman.. I have kids myself.. and I would do the same thing..I wouldnt leave until I had my child..


Title: Re: Aruba
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Vorpman"
Aruba is finally playing the race card in its latest addition of is newspaper.   I was a supporter of this Island, but events over the last few weeks and now this article lend me to the belief that our tourism dollars should go else where.   Articles like this  give that crazy loon Dee Fine amo.


Odd because some would say the same things about being "lost" or "missing" in america. Yet now we wanna cut off Aruba for saying the same thing that minorities feel here.


If this is in reference to that article posted in the Aruba paper this morning, it might help us all to realize that it was written by Steve Yuhas, a gay conservative American writer from San Diego. It's appeared in several publications and is nothing more than shameless finger pointing and race baiting on his behalf. That's the only person it reflects badly on. In short, he's an ass.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: lu1051 on June 22, 2005, 12:16:03 PM
hi everyone!  i have just signed up, but have been reading for a long time now.

I have found a sight that also has some info that might be interesting. This sight is just a persons opinion, but i like reading everyones opinion!

http://www.misfitting.com/archives/cat_crime.html#000907


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 12:16:08 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "HannieC"
iquitos wrote:

Quote
And poor paulus took a while to come to the correct decision to get them in the house and away from the cameras. He hid behind a bush for a long moment trying to decide what to do then took the bull by the horns. very awkward, and very dutch. maybe he had to tell his wife to put her clothes on and tidy up the living room. dutch don't like surprise and go all deer in the headlights when in such situations. they are very orderly and private. and maybe he thought beth was a jehovah's witness.



You are absolutly right  there, b/c did you see paulus his hair looks wet?
Maybe he was taking a shower and was anita alone in the room and he had to put some close on



I agree with both of you, I think there are people here making a mountain out of a mole hill on this topic.

I mean, give me a break...how would any of you honestly act answering the gate to Mrs. Twitty under the circumstances. He wouldn't have known who the hell was at his gate. I'm sure he was flabergasted when he realized it was Mrs. twitty....last thing anyone would expect I'm sure. But hey!! He invited her in! Would any of you honestly have done that or would you have backed away and went back intp the house?  :roll:


There would have been at least 4 people at his gate and one has a big camera. Also he would not have known who greta is in all probability. Very slim chance.


so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


yes-camera men and reporters can be frightening!!!  even if you are
innocent or a victim!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 12:16:15 PM
Aruba - transit point for US- and Europe-bound narcotics with some accompanying money-laundering activity

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2086.html


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "HannieC"
Rob wrote:

Quote
so your saying that a camera is frightening? come on, the dutch have more fortitude than that.....


Sorry Rob I have to disagree on that. We are not used to have cameras in front of our nose,I know i as a dutch would react excactly the same, and by the way I don`t think it is typically dutch .



 if my son were innocent i would want the whole world to hear my side of it... ms twitty is getting a lotta face time... vd sloot missed his opportunity....


I disagree - I had a nasty situation happen last Fall where a matter I was involved in was on the front page of our local paper every day and I was being called by the press to comment - I refused because, although I could have defended myself, I felt any discussion in the public had a reasonable chance of being twisted further against me - by the way, I got the last laugh.


No matter what they say, it's going to bring wrong. Their address was on TV, people know where they live. If we get angry and nasty in this forum IMAGINE what they must go through everyday! I am sure they get nasty mail etc.

Does anyone not see how MSM has created people wanting drama in everything? Reality TV, trash magazines, etc etc. Everyone wants some drama.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:17:51 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Right, but these girls weren't victims of a crime, and probably had been drinking. I can easily see them forgetting or just simply being misinformed or making a mistake because of being on tv (the tzxi comment for intsance).  It makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that they are lying about mundane details.


But when you decide to put yourself on the air, I think you would tend more to go with the known and verified facts.

Like I have always said, I am different. I most certainly would have remember the morning no one could find her. I am curious if they were the ones to report it and immediately give information, why does BH and all of us have a completely different timeline, picture etc.


Well most of the details that they were sketchy on were from that night, hence the drinking comment.  Plus people I think are inclined to get things like times and dates wrong, I do it a lot personally, and I can't imagine what I might say if I was on national tv.  I just tend to think that their is a more innocent explanation for their discrepencies, since I don't see any clear reason for them to lie. I'd still be interested in exactly what the story is though now.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 22, 2005, 12:17:56 PM
I didn't bother reading the 'race card' story. Not worth my time, just another diversion which shows how desperate some are to get rid of the scrutiny.

Dan Rheil had a good insight about the intense coverage:
Behind the scenes I know that some - and certainly some fellow bloggers have questioned the motivations for my Natalee Holloway coverage.

The fact is that from the time I wrote the initial news piece from wire reports, this is what I have always feared. Thanks to the reader with a family member named in this story. Readers name witheld by request.

    Families of those who become crime victims in some foreign countries often learn a hard lesson about getting justice and what little the United States can do about it.


I think that's right on. The fact that the legal system is so different (i.e. we have little or no information), that there is no body, and that we can all identify because it could have happened to any of us (or our children) is what keeps us following this case.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


Is anything known of who Natalee was dancing/drinking with before Joran arrived at C&C?  They arrived there shortly before closing and soon after Natalee left with them.  Maybe someone else at C&C 's had an ulterior motive and Joran arrived and  cut them off at the pass.  Might explain her histerical/sleeping behaviour if she ws slipped a drug shortly before he arrived.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:18:03 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote

He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


I'm not blaming them for anything. My first instinct would also be a request to remove the cameras. But that doesn't automatically equate with innocence or guilt. Without knowing his true motivation, it's meaningless.


Agreed LilOrphan.

Everyone reads so much into things that don't matter.

What has happened to anyone truly being moved by such a wonderful display of respect. How many familes involved in crimes (accussed, victims etc) come together NICELY on a common ground in a such a respectful manner.

I was touched and frankly, I am getting really tired of people spending a majority of their time, in what has been a new american past time it seems, picking apart people and their actions.

I swear it seems no one can do right in some of your eyes. They have son sitting in jail/prison. They are victims too. If their son has truly done something, is it right to convict the family too? No, it's not.

Furthermore, if you want to speculate etc. just keep in mind, everyone and I will repeat everyone on both side of this mystery can not keep their story/facts straight.


who made the vd sloots victims?   i think we all know... dont try that old trick of shifting the blame with me.. this reminds me of the mendez brothers, when being sentenced to prision the defense attorney had the gall to say" do nt be to harsh on these boys, after all they have no parents".....please.........


People like you make them victims. <click>


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 12:18:27 PM
Quote from: "lu1051"
hi everyone!  i have just signed up, but have been reading for a long time now.

I have found a sight that also has some info that might be interesting. This sight is just a persons opinion, but i like reading everyones opinion!

http://www.misfitting.com/archives/cat_crime.html#000907


Hello Lu.. and thank you for that link!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:18:42 PM
Quote from: "lu1051"
hi everyone!  i have just signed up, but have been reading for a long time now.

I have found a sight that also has some info that might be interesting. This sight is just a persons opinion, but i like reading everyones opinion!

http://www.misfitting.com/archives/cat_crime.html#000907


well you found us.. so welcome.... :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:19:02 PM
Quote
I believe the report from over a week ago, that "something bad happened" and "he will lead us to the body" were actually correct, but someone told the suspect/s to shut-up.


I always find these "facts" the oddest. Then entire statements that weekend from being lead to body, confession, something bad happened, "I killed her" were retracted. Yet some pick and chose apart parts that would still be fact. Why wouldn't everything that was retracted be true?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:20:24 PM
Hi Angie I didn't see you!!

Has Kerin been in??


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Right, but these girls weren't victims of a crime, and probably had been drinking. I can easily see them forgetting or just simply being misinformed or making a mistake because of being on tv (the tzxi comment for intsance).  It makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that they are lying about mundane details.


But when you decide to put yourself on the air, I think you would tend more to go with the known and verified facts.

Like I have always said, I am different. I most certainly would have remember the morning no one could find her. I am curious if they were the ones to report it and immediately give information, why does BH and all of us have a completely different timeline, picture etc.


Well most of the details that they were sketchy on were from that night, hence the drinking comment.  Plus people I think are inclined to get things like times and dates wrong, I do it a lot personally, and I can't imagine what I might say if I was on national tv.  I just tend to think that their is a more innocent explanation for their discrepencies, since I don't see any clear reason for them to lie. I'd still be interested in exactly what the story is though now.


so what, i ll be there on saturday and would never just show up at someone house... expecting little dutch cookeis and tea...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I didn't bother reading the 'race card' story. Not worth my time, just another diversion which shows how desperate some are to get rid of the scrutiny.

Dan Rheil had a good insight about the intense coverage:
Behind the scenes I know that some - and certainly some fellow bloggers have questioned the motivations for my Natalee Holloway coverage.

The fact is that from the time I wrote the initial news piece from wire reports, this is what I have always feared. Thanks to the reader with a family member named in this story. Readers name witheld by request.

    Families of those who become crime victims in some foreign countries often learn a hard lesson about getting justice and what little the United States can do about it.


I think that's right on. The fact that the legal system is so different (i.e. we have little or no information), that there is no body, and that we can all identify because it could have happened to any of us (or our children) is what keeps us following this case.


You should read it, it actually outside of the race and attention issues ask some questions of people are not the usual targets in this. No victims rights in that article.


Title: RADIO
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:21:41 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Right, but these girls weren't victims of a crime, and probably had been drinking. I can easily see them forgetting or just simply being misinformed or making a mistake because of being on tv (the tzxi comment for intsance).  It makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that they are lying about mundane details.


But when you decide to put yourself on the air, I think you would tend more to go with the known and verified facts.

Like I have always said, I am different. I most certainly would have remember the morning no one could find her. I am curious if they were the ones to report it and immediately give information, why does BH and all of us have a completely different timeline, picture etc.


I STILL THINK THESE TWO ARE CLOSER TO NATALEE THAN OTHERS AMONG US WHO HAVE SPOKEN.  THEY WERE ALMOST SHY, HESITANT, NOT REAHEARSED.  THAT MADE THEM MORE CREDIBLE FOR ME.  RADIO NEWS COMING.  BTW, THEY WERE COMPLIMENTARY OF MRS. TWITTY'S ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT YESTERDAY.  


NOW THEY ARE REPORTING THAT THEY ARE QUESTIONING THE AMERICAN KIDS WHO WERE WITH NATALEE ON ARUBA ...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: lu1051 on June 22, 2005, 12:21:41 PM
I think its been great listening to everyone and I only hope we all know what has really happened to NH and let these parents have some piece of mind.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 12:22:22 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Hi Angie I didn't see you!!

Has Kerin been in??


Hello Cali.. I havnt seen Karin yet.. but that dont mean she wasnt here.. I been running to the TV set listening.. and my washing machine..lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote

He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


I'm not blaming them for anything. My first instinct would also be a request to remove the cameras. But that doesn't automatically equate with innocence or guilt. Without knowing his true motivation, it's meaningless.


Agreed LilOrphan.

Everyone reads so much into things that don't matter.

What has happened to anyone truly being moved by such a wonderful display of respect. How many familes involved in crimes (accussed, victims etc) come together NICELY on a common ground in a such a respectful manner.

I was touched and frankly, I am getting really tired of people spending a majority of their time, in what has been a new american past time it seems, picking apart people and their actions.

I swear it seems no one can do right in some of your eyes. They have son sitting in jail/prison. They are victims too. If their son has truly done something, is it right to convict the family too? No, it's not.

Furthermore, if you want to speculate etc. just keep in mind, everyone and I will repeat everyone on both side of this mystery can not keep their story/facts straight.


who made the vd sloots victims?   i think we all know... dont try that old trick of shifting the blame with me.. this reminds me of the mendez brothers, when being sentenced to prision the defense attorney had the gall to say" do nt be to harsh on these boys, after all they have no parents".....please.........


People like you make them victims. <click>


you dont hear me saying i feel sorry for them, i feel contempt... keeping silent and not helping, they created their own mess...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: joebob on June 22, 2005, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: "Getagrip"

..snip..
The more we follow this case, the more we realize we don't know anything


Ain't that the truth.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:23:58 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote
I believe the report from over a week ago, that "something bad happened" and "he will lead us to the body" were actually correct, but someone told the suspect/s to shut-up.


I always find these "facts" the oddest. Then entire statements that weekend from being lead to body, confession, something bad happened, "I killed her" were retracted. Yet some pick and chose apart parts that would still be fact. Why wouldn't everything that was retracted be true?


i also never got past that.....


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


Is anything known of who Natalee was dancing/drinking with before Joran arrived at C&C?  They arrived there shortly before closing and soon after Natalee left with them.  Maybe someone else at C&C 's had an ulterior motive and Joran arrived and  cut them off at the pass.  Might explain her histerical/sleeping behaviour if she ws slipped a drug shortly before he arrived.


I've always wondered about this myself. Here's a little scenario I came up with.

Natalee was an attractive girl, and even if she didn't date much Im sure she still had plenty of people interested in her.  This person from MB liked Natalee and when he saw her flirting with Joran he was probably jealous. This might be the explanation for the scuffle. Later that night at C&C's he sees Natalee dancing with Joran and gets really jealous.  The marriott where they say they dropped her off at is pretty close to the HI and is on the same beach I believe.  Maybe this said person was walking around and saw natalee their sleeping on the beach and thinking something must have happened between her and joran killed her in a fit of rage.  Their are some serious problems with this, like how he could have hid a body on an island he barely knew, but I still think its an interesting idea.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


Is anything known of who Natalee was dancing/drinking with before Joran arrived at C&C?  They arrived there shortly before closing and soon after Natalee left with them.  Maybe someone else at C&C 's had an ulterior motive and Joran arrived and  cut them off at the pass.  Might explain her histerical/sleeping behaviour if she ws slipped a drug shortly before he arrived.


MELROSE, THAT IS WHAT I  AM THINKING TOO.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: inthepacific on June 22, 2005, 12:25:25 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote

He didnt dart too far, he let them in.  And who can blame him for not wanting cameras in his home.  Yall are putting to much blame on them when they did nothing.


I'm not blaming them for anything. My first instinct would also be a request to remove the cameras. But that doesn't automatically equate with innocence or guilt. Without knowing his true motivation, it's meaningless.


Agreed LilOrphan.

Everyone reads so much into things that don't matter.

What has happened to anyone truly being moved by such a wonderful display of respect. How many familes involved in crimes (accussed, victims etc) come together NICELY on a common ground in a such a respectful manner.

I was touched and frankly, I am getting really tired of people spending a majority of their time, in what has been a new american past time it seems, picking apart people and their actions.

I swear it seems no one can do right in some of your eyes. They have son sitting in jail/prison. They are victims too. If their son has truly done something, is it right to convict the family too? No, it's not.

Furthermore, if you want to speculate etc. just keep in mind, everyone and I will repeat everyone on both side of this mystery can not keep their story/facts straight.


who made the vd sloots victims?   i think we all know... dont try that old trick of shifting the blame with me.. this reminds me of the mendez brothers, when being sentenced to prision the defense attorney had the gall to say" do nt be to harsh on these boys, after all they have no parents".....please.........


You are comparing apples to oranges here Rob. Mr. & Mrs. Vds to the Menendez brothers? Come on now! You are blowing this out of proportion with this comparison IMO.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 22, 2005, 12:26:32 PM
Hi, All;
Any new developements?
I can't get my eyes to focus yet to read previous pages. I was up wayyyy to late this a.m. in here, hanging on every word.
Thanks


Title: Re: Aruba
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 12:26:51 PM
Quote from: "Vorpman"
Aruba is finally playing the race card in its latest addition of is newspaper.   I was a supporter of this Island, but events over the last few weeks and now this article lend me to the belief that our tourism dollars should go else where.   Articles like this  give that crazy loon Dee Fine amo.


While I thought the article was extremely rude it does ring some truth.
How many missing children or persons are in your own area that have not recieved any coverage.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


Is anything known of who Natalee was dancing/drinking with before Joran arrived at C&C?  They arrived there shortly before closing and soon after Natalee left with them.  Maybe someone else at C&C 's had an ulterior motive and Joran arrived and  cut them off at the pass.  Might explain her histerical/sleeping behaviour if she ws slipped a drug shortly before he arrived.


MELROSE, THAT IS WHAT I  AM THINKING TOO.


iquitos, did we discuss this? i thought it was said that the boys were at the pool all night....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:27:08 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "deepthroat2"
does anyone here remember EXACLTY what you did 18 days ago?  If you were questioned about it over and over and over, do you think your memory of 18 days ago could change a little?


Yes, I can and I was a victim of a crime on May 5, 2005 and believe you me I remember every detial, time, face, etc etc etc., so I can also remember exactly what I did or happened more than 18 days ago.  :wink:


Right, but these girls weren't victims of a crime, and probably had been drinking. I can easily see them forgetting or just simply being misinformed or making a mistake because of being on tv (the tzxi comment for intsance).  It makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that they are lying about mundane details.


But when you decide to put yourself on the air, I think you would tend more to go with the known and verified facts.

Like I have always said, I am different. I most certainly would have remember the morning no one could find her. I am curious if they were the ones to report it and immediately give information, why does BH and all of us have a completely different timeline, picture etc.


Well most of the details that they were sketchy on were from that night, hence the drinking comment.  Plus people I think are inclined to get things like times and dates wrong, I do it a lot personally, and I can't imagine what I might say if I was on national tv.  I just tend to think that their is a more innocent explanation for their discrepencies, since I don't see any clear reason for them to lie. I'd still be interested in exactly what the story is though now.


so what, i ll be there on saturday and would never just show up at someone house... expecting little dutch cookeis and tea...


Not sure if I see what that has to do with my post. Did you quote the wrong person?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 22, 2005, 12:29:01 PM
I read it. His thesis (as per the article title) is that this is a big story because Natalee is blond and white and whatever.

I disagree and stand by my the statement I made before I read the article.

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I didn't bother reading the 'race card' story. Not worth my time, just another diversion which shows how desperate some are to get rid of the scrutiny.

Dan Rheil had a good insight about the intense coverage:
Behind the scenes I know that some - and certainly some fellow bloggers have questioned the motivations for my Natalee Holloway coverage.

The fact is that from the time I wrote the initial news piece from wire reports, this is what I have always feared. Thanks to the reader with a family member named in this story. Readers name witheld by request.

    Families of those who become crime victims in some foreign countries often learn a hard lesson about getting justice and what little the United States can do about it.


I think that's right on. The fact that the legal system is so different (i.e. we have little or no information), that there is no body, and that we can all identify because it could have happened to any of us (or our children) is what keeps us following this case.


You should read it, it actually outside of the race and attention issues ask some questions of people are not the usual targets in this. No victims rights in that article.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote


I've always wondered about this myself. Here's a little scenario I came up with.

Natalee was an attractive girl, and even if she didn't date much Im sure she still had plenty of people interested in her.  This person from MB liked Natalee and when he saw her flirting with Joran he was probably jealous. This might be the explanation for the scuffle. Later that night at C&C's he sees Natalee dancing with Joran and gets really jealous.  The marriott where they say they dropped her off at is pretty close to the HI and is on the same beach I believe.  Maybe this said person was walking around and saw natalee their sleeping on the beach and thinking something must have happened between her and joran killed her in a fit of rage.  Their are some serious problems with this, like how he could have hid a body on an island he barely knew, but I still think its an interesting idea.


I like it as an idea but it violates Occam's Razor. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it's a bit too convoluted and complex to be likely.  Didn't BHT say the FBI fully questioned all kids and chaperones?  They're no Keystone Kops; if something looked hinky in any of the stories, they'd be on it.


Title: Re: RADIO
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:29:22 PM
Quote from: "iquitos

I STILL THINK THESE TWO ARE CLOSER TO NATALEE THAN OTHERS AMONG US WHO HAVE SPOKEN.  THEY WERE ALMOST SHY, HESITANT, NOT REAHEARSED.  THAT MADE THEM MORE CREDIBLE FOR ME.  RADIO NEWS COMING.  BTW, THEY WERE COMPLIMENTARY OF MRS. TWITTY'S ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT YESTERDAY.  


NOW THEY ARE REPORTING THAT THEY ARE QUESTIONING THE AMERICAN KIDS WHO WERE WITH NATALEE ON ARUBA ...


Iquitos.. you have any new theories?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:29:45 PM
Not saying it is fact not even saying to use it in your version of the story:

Deepaks email does talk about her falling asleep in the car. Timelines by driving would have this happening within 1 hour of leaving CNC's I think.

So for all of the discussion about falling asleep on the beach etc. Another account (true or not) brings up sleep.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:29:51 PM
sorry dt.. it was about their house and house numbers being on tv.. or whatever....


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 12:30:33 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


Is anything known of who Natalee was dancing/drinking with before Joran arrived at C&C?  They arrived there shortly before closing and soon after Natalee left with them.  Maybe someone else at C&C 's had an ulterior motive and Joran arrived and  cut them off at the pass.  Might explain her histerical/sleeping behaviour if she ws slipped a drug shortly before he arrived.


I've always wondered about this myself. Here's a little scenario I came up with.

Natalee was an attractive girl, and even if she didn't date much Im sure she still had plenty of people interested in her.  This person from MB liked Natalee and when he saw her flirting with Joran he was probably jealous. This might be the explanation for the scuffle. Later that night at C&C's he sees Natalee dancing with Joran and gets really jealous.  The marriott where they say they dropped her off at is pretty close to the HI and is on the same beach I believe.  Maybe this said person was walking around and saw natalee their sleeping on the beach and thinking something must have happened between her and joran killed her in a fit of rage.  Their are some serious problems with this, like how he could have hid a body on an island he barely knew, but I still think its an interesting idea.


Too little is known about what was going on right before Joran arrived and Natalie left with him.  I'm thinking it's possible that if she was slipped a drug in C&C, Joran and his friends might have just been left with the aftermath of a bad drug/alcohol reaction and panicked.  Could have been someone inside her group.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 12:31:05 PM
running to tv  NH uncle on now on FOX brb


Title: GRETA AND ORIELLY RERUN ON RADIO 95.1.
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:31:09 PM
JORAN TOLD MOTHER HE LEFT HER AT MARRIOTT BEACH
MOTHER WAS IN HOLLAND AT TIME OF EVENTS  

DID JORAN LEAVE HER ALONE, OR WITH SOMEONE ELSE?  

WAS SHE ASLEEP WHEN HE LEFT HER?  

RADIO WILL NOW RUN GRETA SHOW

GET ON AND LISTEN!  IT IS A FOOD SOURCE OF INFO.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:31:17 PM
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:32:29 PM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote


I've always wondered about this myself. Here's a little scenario I came up with.

Natalee was an attractive girl, and even if she didn't date much Im sure she still had plenty of people interested in her.  This person from MB liked Natalee and when he saw her flirting with Joran he was probably jealous. This might be the explanation for the scuffle. Later that night at C&C's he sees Natalee dancing with Joran and gets really jealous.  The marriott where they say they dropped her off at is pretty close to the HI and is on the same beach I believe.  Maybe this said person was walking around and saw natalee their sleeping on the beach and thinking something must have happened between her and joran killed her in a fit of rage.  Their are some serious problems with this, like how he could have hid a body on an island he barely knew, but I still think its an interesting idea.


I like it as an idea but it violates Occam's Razor. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it's a bit too convoluted and complex to be likely.  Didn't BHT say the FBI fully questioned all kids and chaperones?  They're no Keystone Kops; if something looked hinky in any of the stories, they'd be on it.


Yeah I know, I still think we are looking at some sort of overdose and coverup, but it's interesting to think about.  I think it is more likely than the white slavery theories that have been so popular.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
the hysterical on the beach rumor has been floating for a few days.  story was she became hysterical on the beach and joran left her there.  now anita has modified it to sleeping on the beach (after she became hysterical she went to sleep?).  same beach, marriott, where they searched and where deepak says he left them (unconfirmed)  there is a subsequent hysterical woman taken from the front of the HI by two men rumor.  don't discard them but don't take them as fact either.  now we know from mother's mouth that joran told her he left natalee sleeping on the beach.  is that right?


Is anything known of who Natalee was dancing/drinking with before Joran arrived at C&C?  They arrived there shortly before closing and soon after Natalee left with them.  Maybe someone else at C&C 's had an ulterior motive and Joran arrived and  cut them off at the pass.  Might explain her histerical/sleeping behaviour if she ws slipped a drug shortly before he arrived.


MELROSE, THAT IS WHAT I  AM THINKING TOO.


I agree with the retired poiceman Nicollas{?] that Nataless friends and family need to take a polygraph.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I heard that too Cancun which makes me wonder if she knows more she can't tell us and perhaps the "threat of lawsuit" (which has not been confimed) is to know where her daughter is.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:33:27 PM
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


Title: GRETA AND BILL STILL ON RADIO LISTEN UP
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:34:35 PM
WE HAVE HEARD THAT NATALEE DANCED WITH JORAN AFTER HE ARRIVED VERY LATE IN THE GAME.  DAD SAYS HE PICKED HIM UP AT MIKKIE DEE AFTER HE MET NATALEE AT THE POKER TABLE AT HI.    WHERE DID WE HEAR SHE WAS ON THE STAGE DRUNK (EMAIL?)  WHO WAS SHE DANCING AND DRINKING WITH BEFORE THEY ARRIVED?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 12:35:14 PM
I have a hard time imagining that a 17-yr old guy would think to dispose of her body if the girl died while with him.  I could see panic, but unless he's a lot worse an individual than he seems to be, I would think he would just either leave her wherever she died or call someone.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 12:35:21 PM
If any one is interested, TOP 95 is transmitting now part of Fox news where they are talking about the 2 mothers, Holloway and van der Sloot

Teo


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: inthepacific on June 22, 2005, 12:35:23 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


Yes you did Cancunmole. I heard the same thing from her mouth.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:35:40 PM
i think tthat the mbhs ers, have little to do with this, how could anyone with little knowledge of the island hide a body so well, i ve been there 8 times and have nt seen everything....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


I think they said the fight happened at the casino, which would have been sometime before C&C.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


Title: Re: GRETA AND BILL STILL ON RADIO LISTEN UP
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:37:28 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
WE HAVE HEARD THAT NATALEE DANCED WITH JORAN AFTER HE ARRIVED VERY LATE IN THE GAME.  DAD SAYS HE PICKED HIM UP AT MIKKIE DEE AFTER HE MET NATALEE AT THE POKER TABLE AT HI.    WHERE DID WE HEAR SHE WAS ON THE STAGE DRUNK (EMAIL?)  WHO WAS SHE DANCING AND DRINKING WITH BEFORE THEY ARRIVED?


It was from the email, so Im skeptical of it.  ANd no one has said anything about your last question, and I doubt that they will.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:37:33 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


I think they said the fight happened at the casino, which would have been sometime before C&C.


Cali? Help Casinio or CNC's for the scuffle?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 12:37:36 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


We need to know the reason for the scuffle.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:37:49 PM
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
i think tthat the mbhs ers, have little to do with this, how could anyone with little knowledge of the island hide a body so well, i ve been there 8 times and have nt seen everything....


Yeah that was my problem as well. Still if they had been there for a few days they might have noticed a spot to where they could dispose of it.


Title: Re: GRETA AND BILL STILL ON RADIO LISTEN UP
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 12:38:47 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
WE HAVE HEARD THAT NATALEE DANCED WITH JORAN AFTER HE ARRIVED VERY LATE IN THE GAME.  DAD SAYS HE PICKED HIM UP AT MIKKIE DEE AFTER HE MET NATALEE AT THE POKER TABLE AT HI.    WHERE DID WE HEAR SHE WAS ON THE STAGE DRUNK (EMAIL?)  WHO WAS SHE DANCING AND DRINKING WITH BEFORE THEY ARRIVED?


EXACTLY


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamabelle11 on June 22, 2005, 12:38:51 PM
Not very likely someone in her own group would harm her.... 1. they don't know the island   2. if a guy was jealous,  she was going away to college anyway this year so chance of getting together was slim 3. still doesn't answer why the 3 guys have a need to change stories and lie.


Title: GRETA AND BILL STILL ON RADIO
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:39:09 PM
THAT COP ELIO WAS IMPRESSIVE.  HE HAD BEEN CUT OFF FOX D B YESTERDAY.  HE IS A ADVOCATE AND SAYS US PROCEDURE IN MISSING CASES ID TO POLYGRAPH EVERYBODY AROUND THE MISSING PERSON  INCLUDING THE PARENTS.  IT IS A WAY OF WINNOWING OUR SUSPECTS.  HE WAS ON RADIO FM 95.1 YESTERDAY FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD.  LISTEN TO THE ARUBANS.  LET THEM BE YOUR GUIDE.  GRETA IS.  THERE ARE NO SECRETS ON A SMALL ISLAND.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote


Yeah I know, I still think we are looking at some sort of overdose and coverup, but it's interesting to think about.  I think it is more likely than the white slavery theories that have been so popular.


It is an interesting story. Of course, it necessitates a kid following in a rental car around an island with which he has limited familiarity, hanging around while whatever happens on the beach happens that causes JvDS to leave a young female tourist on the beach in the middle of the night alone,  and then finding a really good hiding place for a body - moving 110 pounds and burying/hiding it by himself, getting back to the hotel, coming in covered in sand, perhaps other suspicious fluids, etc. and nobody suspecting a thing.
Since Nat is missing without a single trace, the white slavery theory actually seems more likely, I think.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 12:39:18 PM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


Yes you did Cancunmole. I heard the same thing from her mouth.[/quote

I hard it also.. and really nothing else new.. other then NH Uncle said he hasnt had a chance to talk to his sister yet about the metting at the VS home last night


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


How so?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I heard that too Cancun which makes me wonder if she knows more she can't tell us and perhaps the "threat of lawsuit" (which has not been confimed) is to know where her daughter is.


Greta did say last night that she was not aware of any lawsuit by the family. Greta now saying: BHT knows that J holds key as to where  NH is. Now that's "loaded" when put together with the previous more need to be persued........


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 22, 2005, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
If any one is interested, TOP 95 is transmitting now part of Fox news where they are talking about the 2 mothers, Holloway and van der Sloot

Teo




THANK YOU TEO!!!!!!!
see you all laterl


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 12:40:50 PM
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


i say this to mean that i think the mbhs kids have more info than they are saying that they know.


Title: Re: sleeping beauty
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:40:55 PM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote


Yeah I know, I still think we are looking at some sort of overdose and coverup, but it's interesting to think about.  I think it is more likely than the white slavery theories that have been so popular.


It is an interesting story. Of course, it necessitates a kid following in a rental car around an island with which he has limited familiarity, hanging around while whatever happens on the beach happens that causes JvDS to leave a young female tourist on the beach in the middle of the night alone,  and then finding a really good hiding place for a body - moving 110 pounds and burying/hiding it by himself, getting back to the hotel, coming in covered in sand, perhaps other suspicious fluids, etc. and nobody suspecting a thing.
Since Nat is missing without a single trace, the white slavery theory actually seems more likely, I think.
Yeah.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


I think they said the fight happened at the casino, which would have been sometime before C&C.


Cali? Help Casinio or CNC's for the scuffle?
First story was scuffle at casino 1 to 2 days before CnC.

Apparently later, we ere told there might have been a second scuffle at CnC.

Natalee met Joran before the day of CnC. Atleast that has been the story since day 1 and the most consistent. Also it's supported bu BH.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:41:19 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


How so?


the HI says the camera was working and no video of natalee


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: sb on June 22, 2005, 12:41:43 PM
Have we ever gotten anywhere with the idea posed yesterday that Beth believed that Natalee was AT VDS HOUSE at 3 AM? That seems to have quietly gone off into the night.

Plus a report from someone claiming that something strange was going on in the Noord/Montana area that night. No one has said much about that since.


Title: Re: GRETA AND BILL STILL ON RADIO LISTEN UP
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
WE HAVE HEARD THAT NATALEE DANCED WITH JORAN AFTER HE ARRIVED VERY LATE IN THE GAME.  DAD SAYS HE PICKED HIM UP AT MIKKIE DEE AFTER HE MET NATALEE AT THE POKER TABLE AT HI.    WHERE DID WE HEAR SHE WAS ON THE STAGE DRUNK (EMAIL?)  WHO WAS SHE DANCING AND DRINKING WITH BEFORE THEY ARRIVED?


Yes, it was in the e-mail. Ddin't say if J did dance, only NH asked him why he wouldn't.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:43:12 PM
hey i just thought of something.. dont laugh.. but did anyone ever check the elevator shafts in the HI,  maybe she walked back and fell down one.. ... people fall into those all the time, just a though....


Title: Soul Beach Festival
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "bgcntry72"
FWIW:
If any of the teens knew where the girl was, they would have talked by now.
I know that I would not take being chained to the floor in extreme temperatures for 30 seconds.
The kids are no angels, but something much, much bigger than them is involved.
Thoughts?


i would have cracked along time ago.....maybe the turned up the pressure and now they are getting "disinformation" from them.. if all you know .. is all you know.. there s not much left to tell...


I don;t have confirmed info if Natalee actually went to the soul Beach festival from 7-11 time period.  Does any MB student might fill in the blank?  Lauren Hill was there seems quite an event.  Now when I think reggea, Bob Marley, drinking and spliff and blunts.  Did Natalee befriended any one there? Oh if she did go there..remember one of the guards were there too? Is there a connection?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


i say this to mean that i think the mbhs kids have more info than they are saying that they know.


i think so too.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/APN/506210977&cachetime=3&template=dateline.

This article has some of the answers in it, I really think those kids shouldn't have left until they were all questioned by authorities. A lot of little information why it was fresh could have helped.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 12:44:07 PM
Gotta run to the store.. catch ya guys/gals in a little!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 12:44:19 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
hey i just thought of something.. dont laugh.. but did anyone ever check the elevator shafts in the HI,  maybe she walked back and fell down one.. ... people fall into those all the time, just a though....


After three weeks I would assume someone would smell her decaying corpse.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:44:19 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
i think tthat the mbhs ers, have little to do with this, how could anyone with little knowledge of the island hide a body so well, i ve been there 8 times and have nt seen everything....


Only playing devil's advocate but the water all around is rather obvious.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 22, 2005, 12:44:41 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I heard that too Cancun which makes me wonder if she knows more she can't tell us and perhaps the "threat of lawsuit" (which has not been confimed) is to know where her daughter is.


Greta did say last night that she was not aware of any lawsuit by the family. Greta now saying: BHT knows that J holds key as to where  NH is. Now that's "loaded" when put together with the previous more need to be persued........

Reading between the lines, I would say that BHT feels that Joran's parents should be investigated further.  But she can't say, either because it would hamper the investigation (or violate some laws) and/or because it would be spinned negatively by the Aruban press (i.e. she is aggressive and overzealous).


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I heard that too Cancun which makes me wonder if she knows more she can't tell us and perhaps the "threat of lawsuit" (which has not been confimed) is to know where her daughter is.


Greta did say last night that she was not aware of any lawsuit by the family. Greta now saying: BHT knows that J holds key as to where  NH is. Now that's "loaded" when put together with the previous more need to be persued........


that is indeed loaded, and leads me to believe that she is alive, since BHT has maintained that from day 1.


Title: CALI
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


I think they said the fight happened at the casino, which would have been sometime before C&C.


Cali? Help Casinio or CNC's for the scuffle?
First story was scuffle at casino 1 to 2 days before CnC.

Apparently later, we ere told there might have been a second scuffle at CnC.

Natalee met Joran before the day of CnC. Atleast that has been the story since day 1 and the most consistent. Also it's supported bu BH.


CALIGIRLS DO YOU HAVE A DOUBLE OR DO YOU NEVER SLEEP?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:45:41 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "Rob"
hey i just thought of something.. dont laugh.. but did anyone ever check the elevator shafts in the HI,  maybe she walked back and fell down one.. ... people fall into those all the time, just a though....


After three weeks I would assume someone would smell her decaying corpse.


maybe, maybe not, the air is very dry....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: GeOrGiA on June 22, 2005, 12:46:11 PM
Greta just said JVD's father said he wasn't allowed to visit son because of a phone call that was tapped where he told son to not talk, now they think he will impede investigation.  I hadn't heard that, although it was obvious - maybe that's a question Greta asked him last night when they visited with Beth.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


i say this to mean that i think the mbhs kids have more info than they are saying that they know.


I think that in an attempt to save Natalees reputation alot of things have not been released to the media. Now please know I am NOT saying natalee did anything wrong. I think she was a typical 18 yr old girl in aruba celebrating. She was having a good time as she should have. Just because the media isnt getting what they want out of the interviews (like who she was dancing with, what she was drinking etc etc) doesnt mean that the fbi and aruban govt dont already know. Alot of things can happen when you say you saw her dancing and drinking on a stage. Some ppl can use that to smear her, and I dont think anyone wants that. I guess what Im saying is we really dont know what the interviews conducted by investigators revealed. But i reall dont blame her friends for not saying all the "juicy" details on tv.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I read it. His thesis (as per the article title) is that this is a big story because Natalee is blond and white and whatever.

I disagree and stand by my the statement I made before I read the article.

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I didn't bother reading the 'race card' story. Not worth my time, just another diversion which shows how desperate some are to get rid of the scrutiny.

Dan Rheil had a good insight about the intense coverage:
Behind the scenes I know that some - and certainly some fellow bloggers have questioned the motivations for my Natalee Holloway coverage.

The fact is that from the time I wrote the initial news piece from wire reports, this is what I have always feared. Thanks to the reader with a family member named in this story. Readers name witheld by request.

    Families of those who become crime victims in some foreign countries often learn a hard lesson about getting justice and what little the United States can do about it.


I think that's right on. The fact that the legal system is so different (i.e. we have little or no information), that there is no body, and that we can all identify because it could have happened to any of us (or our children) is what keeps us following this case.


You should read it, it actually outside of the race and attention issues ask some questions of people are not the usual targets in this. No victims rights in that article.


I need to go read the article when I get a moment.  However, I do personally struggle with the "missing, rich, blonde, white-girl syndrome" we all seem to have.  It concerns me because there are many kids missing who don't get this attention, or media focus.  I've decided that this case does in its own way bring attention to missing kids everywhere.  Maybe not in the big way we'd like...but, for instance I suggested to Dash that maybe she and her classmates might work to help others whose children are missing and NOT getting this attention.

I am in FULL support of the Aruban people and their country!  However, adding to the media attention is the early moves by the authorities...Americans love to hate secrecy and the perceived "wrongs" of Aruban LE.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:46:21 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


I think they said the fight happened at the casino, which would have been sometime before C&C.


The news article stated that the scuffle happened at an Aruban bar.


Title: Re: CALI
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


I think they said the fight happened at the casino, which would have been sometime before C&C.


Cali? Help Casinio or CNC's for the scuffle?
First story was scuffle at casino 1 to 2 days before CnC.

Apparently later, we ere told there might have been a second scuffle at CnC.

Natalee met Joran before the day of CnC. Atleast that has been the story since day 1 and the most consistent. Also it's supported bu BH.


CALIGIRLS DO YOU HAVE A DOUBLE OR DO YOU NEVER SLEEP?

lol No I run on little sleep! Usually sleep from 1 or 2am till 6:30am lol


Title: Re: GRETA AND BILL STILL ON RADIO
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
THAT COP ELIO WAS IMPRESSIVE.  HE HAD BEEN CUT OFF FOX D B YESTERDAY.  HE IS A ADVOCATE AND SAYS US PROCEDURE IN MISSING CASES ID TO POLYGRAPH EVERYBODY AROUND THE MISSING PERSON  INCLUDING THE PARENTS.  IT IS A WAY OF WINNOWING OUR SUSPECTS.  HE WAS ON RADIO FM 95.1 YESTERDAY FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD.  LISTEN TO THE ARUBANS.  LET THEM BE YOUR GUIDE.  GRETA IS.  THERE ARE NO SECRETS ON A SMALL ISLAND.


I thought polygraphs were not allowed in Aruba?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 12:48:46 PM
Anyone knows if the Hotels named, have cameras that cover the beach?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:48:53 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


There is no camera outside at the HI. IOnly at the front desk. This has been stated more than once on TV.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:49:54 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Anyone knows if the Hotels named, have cameras that cover the beach?
some do.....there are beach cams all over...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 12:50:49 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


There is no camera outside at the HI. IOnly at the front desk. This has been stated more than once on TV.


ok im sure the front desk covers the front door...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


i say this to mean that i think the mbhs kids have more info than they are saying that they know.


I think that in an attempt to save Natalees reputation alot of things have not been released to the media. Now please know I am NOT saying natalee did anything wrong. I think she was a typical 18 yr old girl in aruba celebrating. She was having a good time as she should have. Just because the media isnt getting what they want out of the interviews (like who she was dancing with, what she was drinking etc etc) doesnt mean that the fbi and aruban govt dont already know. Alot of things can happen when you say you saw her dancing and drinking on a stage. Some ppl can use that to smear her, and I dont think anyone wants that. I guess what Im saying is we really dont know what the interviews conducted by investigators revealed. But i reall dont blame her friends for not saying all the "juicy" details on tv.


oh, i agree wholeheartedly.  what those kids do know, is none of our (ie the general public's) business!  only for the fbi and aruban gov't to know.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/APN/506210977&cachetime=3&template=dateline.

This article has some of the answers in it, I really think those kids shouldn't have left until they were all questioned by authorities. A lot of little information why it was fresh could have helped.


Holloway's friends saw van der Sloot both in the casino at the hotel where they were staying and at Carlos'N Charlies', and a friend of Holloway said van der Sloot - a tall, broad-shouldered athlete - got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar. [what was this scuffle about? Drugs, Natalee?}

"I broke it up," said Bryan Reynolds, 18. "It was outside the Carlos'N Charlies' the second night we were there." [Who is Bryan, some older senior, someone who knows Natalee?]

Reynolds didn't elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation. [Is there more details? Why would it hurt the investigation, the family is contantly asking for info from the Arubian Gov't isn't it time the Arubian population know the details of such events prior. ]


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: AnnieMW1 on June 22, 2005, 12:51:18 PM
Could anyone give me new developments from today?  I'm hopelessly falling behind the posts....Thx.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 22, 2005, 12:51:41 PM
I believe I heard yesterday that 2 of the FBI agents are switching assignments and will be going from Bham to Aruba. This is probably a good thing, since these agents have probably interviewed the students that went on the trip and now can be in Aruba to follow-up some of thier storys


Title: NO LAWSUIT
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:51:46 PM
IT WAS NOT A LAWSUIT.  THIS IS FOX ADHD AGAIN.  THERE WAS A MOTION TO JOIN THE CASE WITH THE PROSECUTOR IAW A DUTCH LEGAL PROVISION THAT ALLOWS THIS.  THIS MOTION WAS BLOWN OFF BY JUDGE POSSIBLY AS PREMATURE (NO ACCUSED YET)  

DEE ON NOW.  WHAT A .... (FILL IN BLANKS), KATZENJAMMER KIDS?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 12:51:49 PM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


i say this to mean that i think the mbhs kids have more info than they are saying that they know.


I think that in an attempt to save Natalees reputation alot of things have not been released to the media. Now please know I am NOT saying natalee did anything wrong. I think she was a typical 18 yr old girl in aruba celebrating. She was having a good time as she should have. Just because the media isnt getting what they want out of the interviews (like who she was dancing with, what she was drinking etc etc) doesnt mean that the fbi and aruban govt dont already know. Alot of things can happen when you say you saw her dancing and drinking on a stage. Some ppl can use that to smear her, and I dont think anyone wants that. I guess what Im saying is we really dont know what the interviews conducted by investigators revealed. But i reall dont blame her friends for not saying all the "juicy" details on tv.


I disagree with your statement concerning Natalee's reputation!  We have NO reason to believe her reputation is any less than what we've read and heard.  She is the victim here.  I'd be the first one to look at Natalee in a different light if we had even ONE fact that leads us to change our view of her!  She is the missing person here...three young men were the last to see her alive...they lied and allowed two other men to sit in jail when they knew damn well they didn't drop her at the HI and never saw two security guards.

Give me some reasons to change my view of Natalee's character and I'll go there...but, until then I will keep my focus on those who saw her last AND lied through their teeth to save their own ******.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:52:11 PM
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
Greta just said JVD's father said he wasn't allowed to visit son because of a phone call that was tapped where he told son to not talk, now they think he will impede investigation.  I hadn't heard that, although it was obvious - maybe that's a question Greta asked him last night when they visited with Beth.


I believe someone confirmed that last night with Greta.

I see nothing wrong with him saying that, I mean it's a typical thing any lawyer would tell someone even if they weren't his father.

Not sure if you caught it but Anita's visits with Joran end if she or Joran bring up anything (including media etc) about the case.


Title: NOT A PHONE CALL
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
Greta just said JVD's father said he wasn't allowed to visit son because of a phone call that was tapped where he told son to not talk, now they think he will impede investigation.  I hadn't heard that, although it was obvious - maybe that's a question Greta asked him last night when they visited with Beth.


IT WAS A JAILHOUSE CONVERSATION OVERHEARD WAS IT NOT?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 12:54:20 PM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


i say this to mean that i think the mbhs kids have more info than they are saying that they know.


I think that in an attempt to save Natalees reputation alot of things have not been released to the media. Now please know I am NOT saying natalee did anything wrong. I think she was a typical 18 yr old girl in aruba celebrating. She was having a good time as she should have. Just because the media isnt getting what they want out of the interviews (like who she was dancing with, what she was drinking etc etc) doesnt mean that the fbi and aruban govt dont already know. Alot of things can happen when you say you saw her dancing and drinking on a stage. Some ppl can use that to smear her, and I dont think anyone wants that. I guess what Im saying is we really dont know what the interviews conducted by investigators revealed. But i reall dont blame her friends for not saying all the "juicy" details on tv.


Lastnight/last chance in Paradise.  Life returns to normal after the plane takes off the next day.  Might explain the scuffle, BHT's saying more people are involved if she got Joran's explanation of the scuffle from his parent's.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: icey on June 22, 2005, 12:54:42 PM
I guess my concern is that the Holloway family is combing Aruba, and soon the waters nearby for Natalee's body.  I would be horrified at the thought of spending so much time in a body search, when she may be hidden (alive) on the island, or taken to another country. At this point the kidnap trail could be very cold.

I hope and pray Natalee is safe somewhere, but it seems like that's not possible at this point. (I don't think she ran away.)

Why am I concerned? Because this could happen to anyones teenager, and with graduation parties held/planned all over the US this story strikes home with 10's of millions of families. In this situation, it seems like we have a chance to resolve it (3 suspects who saw her last and lied.), as a opposed to a situation where no one is suspect. We don't want to see the possibility of a resolution slip away in this case!

icey


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:54:49 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


There is no camera outside at the HI. IOnly at the front desk. This has been stated more than once on TV.


ok im sure the front desk covers the front door...


Possibly but that driveway into the HI has a lot of vegetation.....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


There is no camera outside at the HI. IOnly at the front desk. This has been stated more than once on TV.


We also know there were cameras in the casino as Beth Twitty viewed those tapes in an attempt to ID Joran.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:55:26 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/APN/506210977&cachetime=3&template=dateline.

This article has some of the answers in it, I really think those kids shouldn't have left until they were all questioned by authorities. A lot of little information why it was fresh could have helped.


Holloway's friends saw van der Sloot both in the casino at the hotel where they were staying and at Carlos'N Charlies', and a friend of Holloway said van der Sloot - a tall, broad-shouldered athlete - got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar. [what was this scuffle about? Drugs, Natalee?}

"I broke it up," said Bryan Reynolds, 18. "It was outside the Carlos'N Charlies' the second night we were there." [Who is Bryan, some older senior, someone who knows Natalee?]

Reynolds didn't elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation. [Is there more details? Why would it hurt the investigation, the family is contantly asking for info from the Arubian Gov't isn't it time the Arubian population know the details of such events prior. ]


Well, there goes back to the report and statements by BH that Natalee has known Joran a couple days.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 12:55:56 PM
Quote from: "AnnieMW1"
Could anyone give me new developments from today?  I'm hopelessly falling behind the posts....Thx.


Nothing new at all..from i am aware of..have been on all morning and browsin the sites


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 12:57:39 PM
Quote from: "icey"
I guess my concern is that the Holloway family is combing Aruba, and soon the waters nearby for Natalee's body.  I would be horrified at the thought of spending so much time in a body search, when she may be hidden (alive) on the island, or taken to another country. At this point the kidnap trail could be very cold.

I hope and pray Natalee is safe somewhere, but it seems like that's not possible at this point. (I don't think she ran away.)

Why am I concerned? Because this could happen to anyones teenager, and with graduation parties held/planned all over the US this story strikes home with 10's of millions of families. In this situation, it seems like we have a chance to resolve it (3 suspects who saw her last and lied.), as a opposed to a situation where no one is suspect. We don't want to see the possibility of a resolution slip away in this case!

icey


Someone should make sure they are feeding her if she is alive.

With that said on an ISLAND, 97,000 people, wouldn't someone, somewhere know something 3 weeks later. If she is alive and being held they have the wrong people in custody.


Title: Thoughts to ponder
Post by: carolinagirl on June 22, 2005, 12:57:39 PM
Hi everyone.  I haven't posted much before.  I have been "lurking" and reading occasionally trying to keep up on things.  I am busy w/. 3 kids at home, so my computer time is very erratic and interrupted.  

Some of these thoughts may have been mentioned before, and if so, I apologize.  In regards to the comments made by the security guard who repeated what Deepak told him in prison and the possible "hoax" e-mail posted by Wonder Woman, perhaps these things were spoken or written knowing they would be repeated so these stories would be circulated.  For example, I know that if I want my mom-in-law to know something, but I'm too chicken to tell her myself, I tell my sister-in-law b/c I know she has a big mouth. :o  This could be the same thing where Deepak knew Mickey (I think was his name) would repeat exactly what he said, so he gave him the Marriott story.  Ditto the e-mail if it is legit.  Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing what really happened, and we probably won't until the investigation is over.  We may never know.

As far as the boys not breaking under pressure go, we can speculate until the cows come home.  They are are either A - innocent or B - guilty of murder and holding out in case a body is never found or C - know she has been kidnapped and are covering for someone to prevent backlash against their families.  I know this has all been said before, and my point is that we will not know until the investigation is closed.  The more info that is leaked, the more likely the case can be thrown out in the Dutch system.  As much as we all want to know what happened to Natalee, we have to be patient - the Aruban system is different than ours.  As much as we all want news, any news we receive could damage the case.

One final thought of hope:  Elizabeth Smart.  So may people thought she had been murdered and that Richard Ricci buried her in the desert somewhere.  He spent the last days of his life in prison on "unrelated charges, " with suspicions of murdering Elizabeth.  Like the Holloways and Twittys, the Smarts had a strong faith and never relinquished their searching.  We all know the rest of this story...let's hope Natalee's ends the same way, obviously for her families' sake, but for the boys' familes, as well.  Just as Richard Ricci's family suffered as he died an innocent man in prison, the boys' families are suffering, too.  At this point, we do not know if they are guilty or innocent. (I agree their changing stories is suspicious as Hell, but they are also young and immature).  This is a difficult time for all of them.  We did learn a few lessons from Elizabeth Smart that we should all remember.  First of all, things aren't always as they appear.  Second, and most importantly, never give up hope and have faith that miracles DO happen.  Hope and pray that Natalee is found alive and well.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:57:52 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


There is no camera outside at the HI. IOnly at the front desk. This has been stated more than once on TV.


We also know there were cameras in the casino as Beth Twitty viewed those tapes in an attempt to ID Joran.


Correct Nancy and by those tapes BH got her information, so I am more than certain, she was able to establish the timeline she had been reporting.

I am sticking with what we were told since day 1, Natalee met Joran a couple days before she disappeared. Not the same day as reported last night by her friends.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 12:58:23 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Not sure if you caught it but Anita's visits with Joran end if she or Joran bring up anything (including media etc) about the case.


I caught that, Cali...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: momto5 on June 22, 2005, 12:58:29 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "bamajo"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
BHT just said (FOX) she knows more individuals need to be persued if I heard it correctly.


I wonder if she was referring to the family?


or either some of the kids on the trip.  i mean, how many aruban people does she think are "in" on this?


i say this to mean that i think the mbhs kids have more info than they are saying that they know.


I think that in an attempt to save Natalees reputation alot of things have not been released to the media. Now please know I am NOT saying natalee did anything wrong. I think she was a typical 18 yr old girl in aruba celebrating. She was having a good time as she should have. Just because the media isnt getting what they want out of the interviews (like who she was dancing with, what she was drinking etc etc) doesnt mean that the fbi and aruban govt dont already know. Alot of things can happen when you say you saw her dancing and drinking on a stage. Some ppl can use that to smear her, and I dont think anyone wants that. I guess what Im saying is we really dont know what the interviews conducted by investigators revealed. But i reall dont blame her friends for not saying all the "juicy" details on tv.


I disagree with your statement concerning Natalee's reputation!  We have NO reason to believe her reputation is any less than what we've read and heard.  She is the victim here.  I'd be the first one to look at Natalee in a different light if we had even ONE fact that leads us to change our view of her!  She is the missing person here...three young men were the last to see her alive...they lied and allowed two other men to sit in jail when they knew damn well they didn't drop her at the HI and never saw two security guards.

Give me some reasons to change my view of Natalee's character and I'll go there...but, until then I will keep my focus on those who saw her last AND lied through their teeth to save their own ******.

That is what i was trying to say.....I dont think there is any need as many have speculated "who was she dancing with" etc etc to ask the mbhs kids. It really doesnt matter. All I was saying is it is obvious they arent and shouldnt even say anything to the media bc it would be mis-used or used to tarnish her as a human being. And no one wants that. Sheesh,.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 22, 2005, 12:58:30 PM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "AnnieMW1"
Could anyone give me new developments from today?  I'm hopelessly falling behind the posts....Thx.


Nothing new at all..from i am aware of..have been on all morning and browsin the sites


Maybe it's the calm before the storm.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Not sure if you caught it but Anita's visits with Joran end if she or Joran bring up anything (including media etc) about the case.


I caught that, Cali...

(((((Kerin))))))


Title: Re: NOT A PHONE CALL
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
Greta just said JVD's father said he wasn't allowed to visit son because of a phone call that was tapped where he told son to not talk, now they think he will impede investigation.  I hadn't heard that, although it was obvious - maybe that's a question Greta asked him last night when they visited with Beth.


IT WAS A JAILHOUSE CONVERSATION OVERHEARD WAS IT NOT?


No, it was while the 3 were witnesses and being monitored.


Title: Re: NOT A PHONE CALL
Post by: a Troll on June 22, 2005, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
Greta just said JVD's father said he wasn't allowed to visit son because of a phone call that was tapped where he told son to not talk, now they think he will impede investigation.  I hadn't heard that, although it was obvious - maybe that's a question Greta asked him last night when they visited with Beth.


IT WAS A JAILHOUSE CONVERSATION OVERHEARD WAS IT NOT?

I don't believe it was a jailhouse conversation based on how Greta talked about it last night.   She said the father said something like:

"I can't see my son because the authorities wiretapped a conversation I had with him telling him not to talk.  What I meant by that was that he was talking about the case to friends in school, and I told him to stop talking to them about it".

Thus, it is my impression that this would have been a conversation that was tapped while Joran was still in school (I think last day was the day before he was arrested).   Which also seems to match with the rumors that the police let the suspects go the first time so they could put sruvellience on them and see what happened.  The fact that they don't have a body or confession would lead me to believe that they did not find out anything while they were watching the suspects.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 22, 2005, 01:00:34 PM
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:01:13 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


There is no camera outside at the HI. IOnly at the front desk. This has been stated more than once on TV.


We also know there were cameras in the casino as Beth Twitty viewed those tapes in an attempt to ID Joran.


Correct Nancy and by those tapes BH got her information, so I am more than certain, she was able to establish the timeline she had been reporting.

I am sticking with what we were told since day 1, Natalee met Joran a couple days before she disappeared. Not the same day as reported last night by her friends.


Doesn't the email also say that Natalee met joran that day and not earlier like what has been said.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:01:14 PM
{{{{CALI}}}}
I see we get the same amount of sleep each night.  :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamajo on June 22, 2005, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/APN/506210977&cachetime=3&template=dateline.

This article has some of the answers in it, I really think those kids shouldn't have left until they were all questioned by authorities. A lot of little information why it was fresh could have helped.


Holloway's friends saw van der Sloot both in the casino at the hotel where they were staying and at Carlos'N Charlies', and a friend of Holloway said van der Sloot - a tall, broad-shouldered athlete - got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar. [what was this scuffle about? Drugs, Natalee?}

"I broke it up," said Bryan Reynolds, 18. "It was outside the Carlos'N Charlies' the second night we were there." [Who is Bryan, some older senior, someone who knows Natalee?]

Reynolds didn't elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation. [Is there more details? Why would it hurt the investigation, the family is contantly asking for info from the Arubian Gov't isn't it time the Arubian population know the details of such events prior. ]


Well, there goes back to the report and statements by BH that Natalee has known Joran a couple days.


this could mean anything.  "the second night we were there" - that could be the second night of the trip, or either the second night at CnC's, which would be the night she went missing????

that statement is huge.  of course i could be wrong, but i read it to mean the second night of the trip.  jmho.


Title: BEAU: I BROKE IT UP ....
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/APN/506210977&cachetime=3&template=dateline.

This article has some of the answers in it, I really think those kids shouldn't have left until they were all questioned by authorities. A lot of little information why it was fresh could have helped.


Holloway's friends saw van der Sloot both in the casino at the hotel where they were staying and at Carlos'N Charlies', and a friend of Holloway said van der Sloot - a tall, broad-shouldered athlete - got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar. [what was this scuffle about? Drugs, Natalee?}

"I broke it up," said Bryan Reynolds, 18. "It was outside the Carlos'N Charlies' the second night we were there." [Who is Bryan, some older senior, someone who knows Natalee?]

Reynolds didn't elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation. [Is there more details? Why would it hurt the investigation, the family is contantly asking for info from the Arubian Gov't isn't it time the Arubian population know the details of such events prior. ]
 

SWEET.  ROXY, GOOD CATCH.  SO THE MB BOYS HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST JORAN AND SO THEY FINGER HIM TO THE TWITTYS BEFORE THEY EVEN GET TO ARUBA AND THEY GO AFTER HIM.  JORAN IS PNG BECASUE HE IS HITTIN ON THEIR LITTLE GIRLS?   SWEET


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 01:03:02 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Rob"
in order for the mbhs ers to be involved the HI front door camera has to be defective....


There is no camera outside at the HI. IOnly at the front desk. This has been stated more than once on TV.


We also know there were cameras in the casino as Beth Twitty viewed those tapes in an attempt to ID Joran.


Correct Nancy and by those tapes BH got her information, so I am more than certain, she was able to establish the timeline she had been reporting.

I am sticking with what we were told since day 1, Natalee met Joran a couple days before she disappeared. Not the same day as reported last night by her friends.



I have never seen or read a definitive fact about when Natalee met Joran.  I think it was Dash, or one of the other classmates who said he was seen with her group of friends during the week they were in Aruba.  Not sure that means they met before, or even if this is a fact.  We might want to ask Dash about this again.  

There are some of her friends on Fox right now.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:03:10 PM
Two of natalees friends on FOx now.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:03:28 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
{{{{CALI}}}}
I see we get the same amount of sleep each night.  :)


lmao we are running on empty! jk


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:03:55 PM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


At some point we WILL know which of the meetings is true several days before or that day. Depending on which it is. The credibility of some will be serverly comprismised.


Title: Re: Aruba
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "Vorpman"
Aruba is finally playing the race card in its latest addition of is newspaper.   I was a supporter of this Island, but events over the last few weeks and now this article lend me to the belief that our tourism dollars should go else where.   Articles like this  give that crazy loon Dee Fine amo.


While I thought the article was extremely rude it does ring some truth.
How many missing children or persons are in your own area that have not recieved any coverage.


It is because of Natalee's mother that this case has had so much press (I hope Mom would do the same for me). In the beginning (before they went on the defensive) the Aruban media also gave it a lot of press. This week, however, the tourism agency in Aruba has told the media to put a lid on it, I think. Now you will only read reports in their papers about how bad Fox is and the "pushy" Americans.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:04:33 PM
Yeah, it may not be a huge issue but the whole "when did they meet" question is bugging me.
A few days before?
The afternoon/night of the disappearance?
OR...would she have met Joran on the day/night of this "scuffle"? Because even in the scuffle story I have read 2 versions. One is it happened at the casino and one is it happened outside C&C's.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:05:16 PM
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


Title: Re: BEAU: I BROKE IT UP ....
Post by: LilOrphan on June 22, 2005, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote

SWEET.  ROXY, GOOD CATCH.  SO THE MB BOYS HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST JORAN AND SO THEY FINGER HIM TO THE TWITTYS BEFORE THEY EVEN GET TO ARUBA AND THEY GO AFTER HIM.  JORAN IS PNG BECASUE HE IS HITTIN ON THEIR LITTLE GIRLS?   SWEET


Well, the FBI hasn't qualms about questioning people and being suspicious of them, or keeping them rather than letting them go off for days before arresting them. So if one or more of the MBH kids stories were suspicious, you can bet the FBI would be pursuing it, regardless of who the kids fathers were.  So if your hunch is correct, they're certainly following up on it here where they have jurisdiction.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: la_cavalière on June 22, 2005, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


I think they said the fight happened at the casino, which would have been sometime before C&C.


Cali? Help Casinio or CNC's for the scuffle?
First story was scuffle at casino 1 to 2 days before CnC.

Apparently later, we ere told there might have been a second scuffle at CnC.

Natalee met Joran before the day of CnC. Atleast that has been the story since day 1 and the most consistent. Also it's supported bu BH.


According to Natalee's close friends, and the Deepak e-mail if you believe it, Natalee met Joran the day she disappeared. There were reports that Joran had been hanging around at the HI casino and with the Alabama group, but he may not have met Natalee personally until she introduced herself to him on Sunday.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Saussay on June 22, 2005, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/APN/506210977&cachetime=3&template=dateline.

This article has some of the answers in it, I really think those kids shouldn't have left until they were all questioned by authorities. A lot of little information why it was fresh could have helped.


Holloway's friends saw van der Sloot both in the casino at the hotel where they were staying and at Carlos'N Charlies', and a friend of Holloway said van der Sloot - a tall, broad-shouldered athlete - got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar. [what was this scuffle about? Drugs, Natalee?}

"I broke it up," said Bryan Reynolds, 18. "It was outside the Carlos'N Charlies' the second night we were there." [Who is Bryan, some older senior, someone who knows Natalee?]

Reynolds didn't elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation. [Is there more details? Why would it hurt the investigation, the family is contantly asking for info from the Arubian Gov't isn't it time the Arubian population know the details of such events prior. ]



Thank you I have said this from day 1.  In order for them to resolve this they have to know everything.  What about any computers in the US, at the school, at home etc... and another question and I will probably get heat from this.   I as a mother  I would question her friends and the chaperones as to the whole time there.   And I would do this in person not on the phone.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:07:19 PM
They said they thought natalee was in another room.

She said she doesn't think natalee was drunk when they(the friends) left at 12:15

They reaffirmed that Natalee met Joran that night I think they said 9:30?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Vole on June 22, 2005, 01:07:19 PM
You will all probably think I am nuts, but just go with me for a min. Think simple and under your nose so to speak.
Suppose JVD is telling the truth as far as leaving Natalee sleeping on the beach (In a drugged sleep)
Suppose someone had been watching them and knew he could not waken her which is why he left her.
Or someone stumbles on her whatever anyway they take she is not resisting, she is passed out.
She could be hold up in some drug addicts house away from the tourist area that they would never even think of looking.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 01:08:01 PM
Well said carolinagirl.. :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:08:26 PM
THEY MET JVDS AT 9:30 at the casino.

So what happened to the concert?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 01:08:34 PM
iquitos, what is this about katzenjammer kids?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:08:56 PM
Here is one thing though...
since every person telling the story of when Natalee and Joran met have said that they met in the HI casino, it should be easy enough to pull security tapes for the ENTIRE week to pinpoint exactly the date and time of their initial meeting and "who approached who" (for those who think that an important point).


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:09:26 PM
They did not tell or notice til 9:15 am that she was gone.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 01:09:38 PM
Fox now 2 more from MB, Madison (roomie) & Guy. Madison: 9:30 Sun night @ BJ table!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:10:28 PM
If you think like a teenager, there is no way the alabama kids are not communicating about this--email, the every present text messaging, cell calls.

I also would be really disappointed if at least some of this is being watched by the FBI.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
They did not tell or notice til 9:15 am that she was gone.


But notice the first thing they did was search the other hotel rooms.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


At some point we WILL know which of the meetings is true several days before or that day. Depending on which it is. The credibility of some will be serverly comprismised.


her roomate on fox right now said contrary to popular belief they first met Joran 9:30 at night in the casino on the 29th


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:10:56 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


At some point we WILL know which of the meetings is true several days before or that day. Depending on which it is. The credibility of some will be serverly comprismised.


I agree. Again, we are having conflicting stories, this just being so disturbing because it's from witnesses who were witht he victim. I am just really bothered because BH had stated over and over Natalee knew Joran a couple days as also some friends. This always lead me to see how she would feel comfortable perhaps leaving with him. If she did, only have a brief encounter and meeting with him before CnC, I have many questions as to why then, after knowing someone so briefly, being described as "Level-headed" etc, she left with him.

I mean, it's the only facts we have or are allowed to have but as always I am starting to see other then the cold hard fact that she is missing, we have no other facts.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: sb on June 22, 2005, 01:12:49 PM
A quick point right here..!

By ALL accounts, these MB kids generally stayed up till all hours of the night, if they slept at all. Sleep was an afterthought for them for 4-5 DAYS (kind of reminds me of all of us!), I suspect they catnapped in the daytime in spurts and watched the sun rise... you get the picture. In a situation like that THE DAYS ALLL BLEND TOGETHER in a jumbled mass.  Therefore, I think we need to take specific time/day notations by those kids on the trip with a HUGE grain of salt!

I suspect the only time those kids ever looked at a clock was to make sure they didn't miss a start time for an event like a concert or snorkling trip etc. Which is why I am not putting too much into the report about them seeing Papa VDS at McDonalds at 3 AM. That could easily be a mistake due to the blur of time.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:12:49 PM
Quote from: "Vole"
You will all probably think I am nuts, but just go with me for a min. Think simple and under your nose so to speak.
Suppose JVD is telling the truth as far as leaving Natalee sleeping on the beach (In a drugged sleep)
Suppose someone had been watching them and knew he could not waken her which is why he left her.
Or someone stumbles on her whatever anyway they take she is not resisting, she is passed out.
She could be hold up in some drug addicts house away from the tourist area that they would never even think of looking.


I am not going to argue with your speculation (partly because I am too tired) but I wonder just how many cases of "beach abduction by drug addicts" there are in Aruba? Iquitos?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 01:13:27 PM
Perhaps he was around the group earlier in the week, but NH didn't actually 'meet' him until Sunday night.  She would have been somewhat familiar with him from his hanging out around the MBHS group.


Title: Re: BEAU: I BROKE IT UP ....
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 01:13:32 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "absolut"
With a new timeline of 12-12:30 JVDS and friends getting to CNC when did the scuffle happen? And if it did happen as MBHS'ers say wouldn't that be a reason Natalee keep JVDS away from her friends and why they left her there?


http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/APN/506210977&cachetime=3&template=dateline.

This article has some of the answers in it, I really think those kids shouldn't have left until they were all questioned by authorities. A lot of little information why it was fresh could have helped.


Holloway's friends saw van der Sloot both in the casino at the hotel where they were staying and at Carlos'N Charlies', and a friend of Holloway said van der Sloot - a tall, broad-shouldered athlete - got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar. [what was this scuffle about? Drugs, Natalee?}

"I broke it up," said Bryan Reynolds, 18. "It was outside the Carlos'N Charlies' the second night we were there." [Who is Bryan, some older senior, someone who knows Natalee?]

Reynolds didn't elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation. [Is there more details? Why would it hurt the investigation, the family is contantly asking for info from the Arubian Gov't isn't it time the Arubian population know the details of such events prior. ]
 

SWEET.  ROXY, GOOD CATCH.  SO THE MB BOYS HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST JORAN AND SO THEY FINGER HIM TO THE TWITTYS BEFORE THEY EVEN GET TO ARUBA AND THEY GO AFTER HIM.  JORAN IS PNG BECASUE HE IS HITTIN ON THEIR LITTLE GIRLS?   SWEET


Someone on SM said the FBI went to Birmingham and questioned all chaperones and students, some 2 or 3 times to make certain there were no inconsistencies.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:14:17 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


At some point we WILL know which of the meetings is true several days before or that day. Depending on which it is. The credibility of some will be serverly comprismised.


I agree. Again, we are having conflicting stories, this just being so disturbing because it's from witnesses who were witht he victim. I am just really bothered because BH had stated over and over Natalee knew Joran a couple days as also some friends. This always lead me to see how she would feel comfortable perhaps leaving with him. If she did, only have a brief encounter and meeting with him before CnC, I have many questions as to why then, after knowing someone so briefly, being described as "Level-headed" etc, she left with him.

I mean, it's the only facts we have or are allowed to have but as always I am starting to see other then the cold hard fact that she is missing, we have no other facts.


level headedness tends to go away when people drink.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: hope on June 22, 2005, 01:14:19 PM
Help me out here- I'm a little late signing on this morning- Is Van Der Sloot changing his story as to say that "he left her on the beach asleep'??

Thanks


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Here is one thing though...
since every person telling the story of when Natalee and Joran met have said that they met in the HI casino, it should be easy enough to pull security tapes for the ENTIRE week to pinpoint exactly the date and time of their initial meeting and "who approached who" (for those who think that an important point).


Exactly Kerin! I have to gather that since Beth watched all of those tapes and saw Joran on the tape, her statements of "natalee knew Joran a couple of days" would be more correct. She seems like a fact stickler.

hee hee Just like me... jk


Title: SCUFFLES
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Yeah, it may not be a huge issue but the whole "when did they meet" question is bugging me.
A few days before?
The afternoon/night of the disappearance?
OR...would she have met Joran on the day/night of this "scuffle"? Because even in the scuffle story I have read 2 versions. One is it happened at the casino and one is it happened outside C&C's.


PROBABLY TWO SCUFFLES. WE NOW HAVE A NAME DATE AND PLACE ON ONE.  THE OTHER ONE MAY BE ON SECURITY FILM.  IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CRIMINAL CASE.  SO IS WHO WAS NATALEE WITH AT CARLOS AND CHARLIES WHEN  IF I WERE DEFENDING OR JUDGING JORAN I WOULD WANT TO KNOW THE BEFORE AS WELL AS THE AFTER.  NOW, WE ARE TOLD THAT THE FBI IS GATHERING THESE FACTS BUT I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS INFORMATION GATHERED OVERSEAS WILL BE ADMITTED TO THE LOCAL CASE.  THEE ARE TWO ISSUES HERE:  FINDING NATALEE, AND PUNISHING THOSE INVOLVED IN HER DISAPPEARANCE.   THEY ARE HOPELESSLY INTERTWINED.  RADIO SIGNING OFF?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:15:58 PM
Quote from: "UGAmom"
Perhaps he was around the group earlier in the week, but NH didn't actually 'meet' him until Sunday night.  She would have been somewhat familiar with him from his hanging out around the MBHS group.


Or more likely, she met him before but her friends weren't around or just didn't notice it.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Kelly on June 22, 2005, 01:16:12 PM
Quote from: "hope"
Help me out here- I'm a little late signing on this morning- Is Van Der Sloot changing his story as to say that "he left her on the beach asleep'??

Thanks


That is what is going around now. That is supposedly what jorans mother said


Title: Re: Aruba
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 01:16:44 PM
Quote from: "another monkey"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "Vorpman"
Aruba is finally playing the race card in its latest addition of is newspaper.   I was a supporter of this Island, but events over the last few weeks and now this article lend me to the belief that our tourism dollars should go else where.   Articles like this  give that crazy loon Dee Fine amo.


While I thought the article was extremely rude it does ring some truth.
How many missing children or persons are in your own area that have not recieved any coverage.


It is because of Natalee's mother that this case has had so much press (I hope Mom would do the same for me). In the beginning (before they went on the defensive) the Aruban media also gave it a lot of press. This week, however, the tourism agency in Aruba has told the media to put a lid on it, I think. Now you will only read reports in their papers about how bad Fox is and the "pushy" Americans.



I have the deepest respect for Natalees mom , she has to be one of the strongest woman I have ever met ( well you know what I mean) but don't you think every mother with a missing child is screaming for answers.
Not every mom has the money or resourses behind them.
There are many Americans missing in different countries but with no coverage.
I am glad Natalee is getting this coverage because her mom deserves answers but I wish other parents could get a fraction of this coverage because they deserve answers too.
So like I said there is a ring of truth in that article even though it was the most heartless thing I have ever read. Sometimes the truth is ugly.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


At some point we WILL know which of the meetings is true several days before or that day. Depending on which it is. The credibility of some will be serverly comprismised.


I agree. Again, we are having conflicting stories, this just being so disturbing because it's from witnesses who were witht he victim. I am just really bothered because BH had stated over and over Natalee knew Joran a couple days as also some friends. This always lead me to see how she would feel comfortable perhaps leaving with him. If she did, only have a brief encounter and meeting with him before CnC, I have many questions as to why then, after knowing someone so briefly, being described as "Level-headed" etc, she left with him.

I mean, it's the only facts we have or are allowed to have but as always I am starting to see other then the cold hard fact that she is missing, we have no other facts.


To add to this no one from the MB has said that Natalee didn't leave willingly which would be out of charachter as well if the real story is no real history between them.


Title: let's find VDS friends
Post by: lookingood on June 22, 2005, 01:17:11 PM
let's interview more of VDS' friends.
His father told him not to talk about the case because he was "shooting off his mouth."  Let's find out who he was shooting off his mouth to and what he was saying.  
Maybe these are some of the people that BHT wants to talk to.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Scott on June 22, 2005, 01:17:20 PM
I noticed Aruban attorney Lincoln Gomez graduated from St. Leo College, a rather small school in Florida; the very same college JVDS was already admitted to (possibly receiving a full scholarship).

Does anyone in Aruba know if JVDS received a referral or recommendation from Gomez?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


We've now heard from 6 different MB students. Am I the only one who has heard 3 different versions of when the realized she was missing (so who was waiting in the lobby?), when NH met J?

Also, if met him at 9:30 Sun nite at BJ table, what about the SBF concert?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: hope on June 22, 2005, 01:17:30 PM
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "hope"
Help me out here- I'm a little late signing on this morning- Is Van Der Sloot changing his story as to say that "he left her on the beach asleep'??

Thanks


That is what is going around now. That is supposedly what jorans mother said


Thanks-  One would think at her age if she had meet Joran earlier that she would have told this to her "best" friends- you know talking all that guy stuff


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 01:17:39 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
Perhaps he was around the group earlier in the week, but NH didn't actually 'meet' him until Sunday night.  She would have been somewhat familiar with him from his hanging out around the MBHS group.


Or more likely, she met him before but her friends weren't around or just didn't notice it.


I'm thinking that maybe they were eyeing one another earlier, but finally made a move on the last night.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:18:21 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Here is one thing though...
since every person telling the story of when Natalee and Joran met have said that they met in the HI casino, it should be easy enough to pull security tapes for the ENTIRE week to pinpoint exactly the date and time of their initial meeting and "who approached who" (for those who think that an important point).


Exactly Kerin! I have to gather that since Beth watched all of those tapes and saw Joran on the tape, her statements of "natalee knew Joran a couple of days" would be more correct. She seems like a fact stickler.

hee hee Just like me... jk

 :D  :D Yeah and that's why I love you, Cali. But yes...we have to break this down to what everyone knows to be FACT and the fact is that YES, Natalee and Joran DID meet and talk and it happened in the HI casino. From there, I have heard about 5 stories of when that happened. So, now you start looking at FACTS (video) to get the proof of the meeting.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:19:10 PM
Quote from: "sb"
A quick point right here..!

By ALL accounts, these MB kids generally stayed up till all hours of the night, if they slept at all. Sleep was an afterthought for them for 4-5 DAYS (kind of reminds me of all of us!), I suspect they catnapped in the daytime in spurts and watched the sun rise... you get the picture. In a situation like that THE DAYS ALLL BLEND TOGETHER in a jumbled mass.  Therefore, I think we need to take specific time/day notations by those kids on the trip with a HUGE grain of salt!

I suspect the only time those kids ever looked at a clock was to make sure they didn't miss a start time for an event like a concert or snorkling trip etc. Which is why I am not putting too much into the report about them seeing Papa VDS at McDonalds at 3 AM. That could easily be a mistake due to the blur of time.


No but they could have seen him at 11pm picking up JVDS who they had really just met formally 1.5 hours before.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: UGAmom on June 22, 2005, 01:19:48 PM
Quote from: "hope"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "hope"
Help me out here- I'm a little late signing on this morning- Is Van Der Sloot changing his story as to say that "he left her on the beach asleep'??

Thanks


That is what is going around now. That is supposedly what jorans mother said


Thanks-  One would think at her age if she had meet Joran earlier that she would have told this to her "best" friends- you know talking all that guy stuff


Definitely.  She would have told someone she was interested.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 22, 2005, 01:20:48 PM
If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap.  Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point.  I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share.   In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense.  Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?  

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink?  (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from?  Consider this scenerio:  IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio.  As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know.  MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.


Title: Re: SCUFFLES
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Yeah, it may not be a huge issue but the whole "when did they meet" question is bugging me.
A few days before?
The afternoon/night of the disappearance?
OR...would she have met Joran on the day/night of this "scuffle"? Because even in the scuffle story I have read 2 versions. One is it happened at the casino and one is it happened outside C&C's.


PROBABLY TWO SCUFFLES. WE NOW HAVE A NAME DATE AND PLACE ON ONE.  THE OTHER ONE MAY BE ON SECURITY FILM.  IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CRIMINAL CASE.  SO IS WHO WAS NATALEE WITH AT CARLOS AND CHARLIES WHEN  IF I WERE DEFENDING OR JUDGING JORAN I WOULD WANT TO KNOW THE BEFORE AS WELL AS THE AFTER.  NOW, WE ARE TOLD THAT THE FBI IS GATHERING THESE FACTS BUT I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS INFORMATION GATHERED OVERSEAS WILL BE ADMITTED TO THE LOCAL CASE.  THEE ARE TWO ISSUES HERE:  FINDING NATALEE, AND PUNISHING THOSE INVOLVED IN HER DISAPPEARANCE.   THEY ARE HOPELESSLY INTERTWINED.  RADIO SIGNING OFF?

Iquitos, it is probably my extreme exhaustion but your posts are making more and more sense to me.  :D  :D Keep on throwing in those ideas!! I do think ALL males involved in the week in question (regardless of nationality, etc) need to be questioned and eliminated.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


At some point we WILL know which of the meetings is true several days before or that day. Depending on which it is. The credibility of some will be serverly comprismised.


I agree. Again, we are having conflicting stories, this just being so disturbing because it's from witnesses who were witht he victim. I am just really bothered because BH had stated over and over Natalee knew Joran a couple days as also some friends. This always lead me to see how she would feel comfortable perhaps leaving with him. If she did, only have a brief encounter and meeting with him before CnC, I have many questions as to why then, after knowing someone so briefly, being described as "Level-headed" etc, she left with him.

I mean, it's the only facts we have or are allowed to have but as always I am starting to see other then the cold hard fact that she is missing, we have no other facts.


To add to this no one from the MB has said that Natalee didn't leave willingly which would be out of charachter as well if the real story is no real history between them.


I really don't think that would be out of character even if the just met that night story is true (which I dont think it is).  Again all of these kids are saying Joran looked like a normal guy.  If natalee had been around him all week and noticed him being a normal and had heard nothing bad from friends who had met him, she would probably have trusted him.  Especially when you factor in that she was probably naive and had been drinking that night.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Here is one thing though...
since every person telling the story of when Natalee and Joran met have said that they met in the HI casino, it should be easy enough to pull security tapes for the ENTIRE week to pinpoint exactly the date and time of their initial meeting and "who approached who" (for those who think that an important point).


Exactly Kerin! I have to gather that since Beth watched all of those tapes and saw Joran on the tape, her statements of "natalee knew Joran a couple of days" would be more correct. She seems like a fact stickler.

hee hee Just like me... jk


Not discounting but I have heard BH refer to the meeting different ways. In the interview last week she didn't even acknowledge that the tapes were used for anything other than to identify JVDS not when he met Natalee. She may have gotten the "when" from a similar source that we did.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: "hope"
Help me out here- I'm a little late signing on this morning- Is Van Der Sloot changing his story as to say that "he left her on the beach asleep'??

Thanks


News is saying he has changed his story, no confirmation.

Per Greta: Mrs. VdS told BHT that J told her that he left NH on the beach. I don't recall any "condition" being mentioned.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:23:02 PM
Quite possible they played at the same table even without "introduction".  That could explain why Nat gave him her name that night.  

Again I know you are getting tired of it, but teens today are really casual and will talk for a long time to people without knowing their names.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:23:45 PM
Quote from: "hope"
Help me out here- I'm a little late signing on this morning- Is Van Der Sloot changing his story as to say that "he left her on the beach asleep'??

Thanks
 

HOPE:  GRETA SAYS THAT YESTERDAY JORAN'S MOTHER TOLD MRS TWITTY IN HER PRESENCE THAT JORAN TOLD HER HE LEFT NATALEE AT THE BEACH.  THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN THE STORY HE APPARENTLY TOLD THE ALABAMA POSSE TUESDAY AM AND WHICH WAS IN THE PRESS.  WE DO NOT KNOW IF HE KEPT TO THIS STORY AFTER HE WAS ACTUALLY ARRESTED.  IT MAY BE THAT THE "CHANGE " TOOK PLACE AS SOON AS THEY WERE IN POLICE HANDS AND THAT NONE HAS CHANGED THAT STORY.   WE HEAR FROM THE SECURITY GUARD THAT JORAN TOLD HIM  HE WAS DROPPED OFF AT HOME AND THE OTHER TWO PROCEEDED TO THE HOTEL TO FROP NATALEE.  DEEPAK, ACCORDING TO THE SECURTY GUARD, SAID THE HI STORY WAS MADE UP AND THAT THE TRUTH IS THAT THEY LEFT JORAN AND NATALEE AT THE MARRIOTT BEACH.  SO IT LOOKS LIKE DEEPAK MAY BE VALIDATING JORAN'S  NEW STORY, IF THE REPORTS AND ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 01:23:48 PM
Does anyone know what day the kids arrived in Aruba?  I remember Dash or someone saying they were there only 4 days and the first day they were "jet lagged" and just hung by the pool.


Title: Re: SCUFFLES
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:24:07 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Yeah, it may not be a huge issue but the whole "when did they meet" question is bugging me.
A few days before?
The afternoon/night of the disappearance?
OR...would she have met Joran on the day/night of this "scuffle"? Because even in the scuffle story I have read 2 versions. One is it happened at the casino and one is it happened outside C&C's.


PROBABLY TWO SCUFFLES. WE NOW HAVE A NAME DATE AND PLACE ON ONE.  THE OTHER ONE MAY BE ON SECURITY FILM.  IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CRIMINAL CASE.  SO IS WHO WAS NATALEE WITH AT CARLOS AND CHARLIES WHEN  IF I WERE DEFENDING OR JUDGING JORAN I WOULD WANT TO KNOW THE BEFORE AS WELL AS THE AFTER.  NOW, WE ARE TOLD THAT THE FBI IS GATHERING THESE FACTS BUT I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS INFORMATION GATHERED OVERSEAS WILL BE ADMITTED TO THE LOCAL CASE.  THEE ARE TWO ISSUES HERE:  FINDING NATALEE, AND PUNISHING THOSE INVOLVED IN HER DISAPPEARANCE.   THEY ARE HOPELESSLY INTERTWINED.  RADIO SIGNING OFF?

 :wink: Thats why I look at things as I do. (Darn too much courtTv jk)

It is important in a way though, when she met Joran because it creates a different picture in this story somewhat.

I am not way attacking the vicitm just statements made, so bear that in mind. I have alredy stated that if she's responsible, level headed, "this is not of Natalee's character" etc.. is it not odd then, if she met him at 9:30ish briefly, saw him again at CnC briefly (no one has made any statement to as what happened in the club), then leaves with him? And knowing she just met him, I have more of a problem and questions of why, if this is the timeline, did anyone let her leave with a stranger. Because with this timeline, he's just that.

Yes, alcohol can cause you to do different things but I just don't understand this night. Sometimes in order to solve you have to think like the victim but we can't get any closer to the truth with conflicting stories from the one group who should at least have the answers up until she got into that car.


Title: Aruba WebCam
Post by: Seeker on June 22, 2005, 01:24:36 PM
Hi all from the sweltering midwest ...
Someone today said something that made me wonder if there were any live camera feeds on Aruba so I did a search - found just one. Anyone know if Bucuti Beach has been mentioned in ref. to Natalee at all? This webcam from Bucuti Beach archives pictures on the beach back to January 2005. Think it might be worthwhile to search back to the last days that Natalee was seen? Here's the link;

http://www.bucuticam.com/index.html

Seeker  (PS ... I hope this isn't posted more than once - I keep getting the page to try again later. I checked after each one and it didn't look like my post was getting through.)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 01:24:49 PM
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap.  Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point.  I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share.   In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense.  Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?  

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink?  (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from?  Consider this scenerio:  IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio.  As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know.  MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.


This is exactly what I have been trying to say but you said it so much better.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "DT"
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


We've now heard from 6 different MB students. Am I the only one who has heard 3 different versions of when the realized she was missing (so who was waiting in the lobby?), when NH met J?

Also, if met him at 9:30 Sun nite at BJ table, what about the SBF concert?


Maybe they left the concert early.  

Again you need to take the times given by students who had gotten little sleep and had probably been drinking with a grain of salt.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:25:03 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Here is one thing though...
since every person telling the story of when Natalee and Joran met have said that they met in the HI casino, it should be easy enough to pull security tapes for the ENTIRE week to pinpoint exactly the date and time of their initial meeting and "who approached who" (for those who think that an important point).


Exactly Kerin! I have to gather that since Beth watched all of those tapes and saw Joran on the tape, her statements of "natalee knew Joran a couple of days" would be more correct. She seems like a fact stickler.

hee hee Just like me... jk


Not discounting but I have heard BH refer to the meeting different ways. In the interview last week she didn't even acknowledge that the tapes were used for anything other than to identify JVDS not when he met Natalee. She may have gotten the "when" from a similar source that we did.


could be...
that's why they need to pinpoint a date and time


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:25:25 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Does anyone know what day the kids arrived in Aruba?  I remember Dash or someone saying they were there only 4 days and the first day they were "jet lagged" and just hung by the pool.


SINCE WHEN DOES A NORTH-SOUTH TRIP OVER ONE TIME ZONE CAUSE JET LAG?  JET, LAG JET SCHMAG


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: lookingood on June 22, 2005, 01:25:46 PM
Quote
CaliGirl wrote:
Quote
absolut wrote:
Quote
Cherry6905 wrote:
Her friends said she only met JVS the night she dissappeared. He was sitting at the same blackjack table as she and she made small talk with him. No more. Later her friends and she went to CC and saw Joran there. They said they were surprised he was there as he had stated at the Casino there was nothing to do on that night.


At some point we WILL know which of the meetings is true several days before or that day. Depending on which it is. The credibility of some will be serverly comprismised.


I agree. Again, we are having conflicting stories, this just being so disturbing because it's from witnesses who were witht he victim. I am just really bothered because BH had stated over and over Natalee knew Joran a couple days as also some friends. This always lead me to see how she would feel comfortable perhaps leaving with him. If she did, only have a brief encounter and meeting with him before CnC, I have many questions as to why then, after knowing someone so briefly, being described as "Level-headed" etc, she left with him.

I mean, it's the only facts we have or are allowed to have but as always I am starting to see other then the cold hard fact that she is missing, we have no other facts.


To add to this no one from the MB has said that Natalee didn't leave willingly which would be out of charachter as well if the real story is no real history between them.

(I just did a copy-paste of some replies, then added some "Quote" formats; I'm curious to see if they came out nested.  If not, I'd like to know how to do those nice, nested quotes)

One of the friends on Greta last night said that at the end of the night, when she asked Natalee if she was okay,  that Natalee "indicated that she was going back with the other group of students from MB."  

So, don't forget that Natalee might not have left with VDS "willingly."  

I'd like to ask that student also to clarify why she asked Natalee if she was "okay?"  Was she asking if she was tipsy, if she had a group to go back with, or if she was comfortable with VDS?  


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 01:26:52 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Fox now 2 more from MB, Madison (roomie) & Guy. Madison: 9:30 Sun night @ BJ table!


Since I'm almost certain some of the other kids on the trip reported that Joran was seen with the group of Natalee's friends prior to the last evening, I think I'd like to hear from more of the kids.

One important note...with so many kids all in different activities throughout the week, some may not have seen things that others did.  It's just common sense that 140 kids all have different experiences and saw various things during their stay.  One group of kids may have seen Joran for the first time that night at 9:30pm while others may have been in a completely different area days before and seen him as well.

It's very hard to judge until more kids speak to this.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 01:26:52 PM
iquitos wrote:
SWEET. ROXY, GOOD CATCH. SO THE MB BOYS HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST JORAN AND SO THEY FINGER HIM TO THE TWITTYS BEFORE THEY EVEN GET TO ARUBA AND THEY GO AFTER HIM. JORAN IS PNG BECASUE HE IS HITTIN ON THEIR LITTLE GIRLS? SWEET
 
 Um, are you kidding me?  
Are you forgetting that Joran & the brothers *admit* they left with her, and in the car which matches the description of witnesses?
And that they lied about what happened next?
You're not seriously overlooking that in favor of a theory that boys from a shoving match framed him for a possible murder...?

Aside, not to Iquitos, but about the scuffle...  Didn't it say that happened the 2nd night, not the last?  So that wouldn't be part of a final timeline, right?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: JessesMom on June 22, 2005, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "UGAmom"
Perhaps he was around the group earlier in the week, but NH didn't actually 'meet' him until Sunday night.  She would have been somewhat familiar with him from his hanging out around the MBHS group.


Or more likely, she met him before but her friends weren't around or just didn't notice it.


That is what I'm thinking ... she may have met him earlier than the friends know about.  Could be that she was hanging around a table in the casino, he was hanging around, and they spoke to each other, not really a formal "meeting", but maybe they had been acquainted with each other earlier in the week .... I'm sure the kids didn't go around talking about every single person they had spoken to during the week.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 22, 2005, 01:27:17 PM
If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap. Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point. I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share. In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink? (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from? Consider this scenerio: IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio. As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know. MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:27:47 PM
Is there a transcript of the interview that dash and the boy did--I thought he said that Joran had been around earlier.  

Maybe not, but that just is not sitting right about now.

if no transcript, did anyone tivo it.

This guy said he had even been with some locals, remember.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:29:10 PM
May not be a good time to mention this but one of my students, on her Mexican senior trip, has been "missing" since last night. I don't want to say a lot more but I ask that you guys maybe say a prayer for her today.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:29:44 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "DT"
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


We've now heard from 6 different MB students. Am I the only one who has heard 3 different versions of when the realized she was missing (so who was waiting in the lobby?), when NH met J?

Also, if met him at 9:30 Sun nite at BJ table, what about the SBF concert?


Maybe they left the concert early.  

Again you need to take the times given by students who had gotten little sleep and had probably been drinking with a grain of salt.


ARE THE STUDENTS UNRELIABLE WITNESSES?  OR MAYBE IT WAS BEFORE THE CONCERT BUT THEN WHERE WAS JORAN BETWEEN THEN AND 1 PM WHEN HE MET DAD AT MIKKIE DEE?  MAYBE NATALEE AND JORAN WENT TOGETHER TO THE CONCERT. DID THE MB BOYS FOLLOW HIM TO MIKKIE DEE OR WAS SOME MB KID HAVING A BIG MAK THING?  ?


Title: Re: Aruba
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 01:29:55 PM
Quote from: "roxyluv"


While I thought the article was extremely rude it does ring some truth.
How many missing children or persons are in your own area that have not recieved any coverage.


But this case isn't unique in that respect.  Why does the MSM pick any particular case?  Take the Scott / Laci Peterson case.  Neither was a celebrity (like OJ or Kobe Bryant).  Thousands of people are murdered in this country.  The MSM exist to make money.  They make money by attracting viewers, which boosts their ratings, which drives up advertising revenue.  That's how the system works.  Any "ordinary" murder, rape or missing person case isn't going to attract attention in and of itself.  There has to be something(s) unique to create drama.  This case has it and it is definitely MORE than that this girl is white and blonde.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 22, 2005, 01:30:05 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
May not be a good time to mention this but one of my students, on her Mexican senior trip, has been "missing" since last night. I don't want to say a lot more but I ask that you guys maybe say a prayer for her today.


OMG kerin, please keep us posted


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:30:57 PM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Is there a transcript of the interview that dash and the boy did--I thought he said that Joran had been around earlier.  

Maybe not, but that just is not sitting right about now.

if no transcript, did anyone tivo it.

This guy said he had even been with some locals, remember.


I RECALL HE DID SAY THAT.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Fox now 2 more from MB, Madison (roomie) & Guy. Madison: 9:30 Sun night @ BJ table!


Since I'm almost certain some of the other kids on the trip reported that Joran was seen with the group of Natalee's friends prior to the last evening, I think I'd like to hear from more of the kids.

One important note...with so many kids all in different activities throughout the week, some may not have seen things that others did.  It's just common sense that 140 kids all have different experiences and saw various things during their stay.  One group of kids may have seen Joran for the first time that night at 9:30pm while others may have been in a completely different area days before and seen him as well.

It's very hard to judge until more kids speak to this.


The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 22, 2005, 01:31:23 PM
Oh Kerin, please keep us posted. We'll pray for her too. Any info at this point? Where in Mexico?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamabelle11 on June 22, 2005, 01:32:25 PM
I am more confused after hearing the kids talk on TV.... no wonder the family and FBI are telling them not to talk because it only causes specualtion and more rumors. I don't think any of them fully remember because they were drinking and because at the time it wasn't important for them to notice things going on around them. the kids aren't halping any more then the guys is custody


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Scott on June 22, 2005, 01:33:18 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
 
If she did, only have a brief encounter and meeting with him before CnC, I have many questions as to why then, after knowing someone so briefly, being described as "Level-headed" etc, she left with him.


Perhaps NH was more trusting than she otherwise would be, believing JVDS' dad was a judge on island, thus giving her a false sense of security.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:34:40 PM
in Veracruz. I don't have a lot of details. I am trying to reach some of the chaperones. all I know is she did not return to her hotel last night and her roommate (1) reported it to the adults this morning about 5 am.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamabelle11 on June 22, 2005, 01:35:16 PM
the boy in the interview with dash, Ed, said that he had made friends witha a waiter since he spoke fluent spanish....


Title: Re: Aruba WebCam
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: "Seeker"
Hi all from the sweltering midwest ...
Someone today said something that made me wonder if there were any live camera feeds on Aruba so I did a search - found just one. Anyone know if Bucuti Beach has been mentioned in ref. to Natalee at all? This webcam from Bucuti Beach archives pictures on the beach back to January 2005. Think it might be worthwhile to search back to the last days that Natalee was seen? Here's the link;

http://www.bucuticam.com/index.html

Seeker  (PS ... I hope this isn't posted more than once - I keep getting the page to try again later. I checked after each one and it didn't look like my post was getting through.)


the bucuti is about 1.5 miles from  the HI..sorry if someone already answered...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:35:36 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "DT"
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


We've now heard from 6 different MB students. Am I the only one who has heard 3 different versions of when the realized she was missing (so who was waiting in the lobby?), when NH met J?

Also, if met him at 9:30 Sun nite at BJ table, what about the SBF concert?


Maybe they left the concert early.  

Again you need to take the times given by students who had gotten little sleep and had probably been drinking with a grain of salt.


ARE THE STUDENTS UNRELIABLE WITNESSES?  OR MAYBE IT WAS BEFORE THE CONCERT BUT THEN WHERE WAS JORAN BETWEEN THEN AND 1 PM WHEN HE MET DAD AT MIKKIE DEE?  MAYBE NATALEE AND JORAN WENT TOGETHER TO THE CONCERT. DID THE MB BOYS FOLLOW HIM TO MIKKIE DEE OR WAS SOME MB KID HAVING A BIG MAK THING?  ?


I don't know if the students as a whole are unreliable, I think you have to take into context each ones story.  Ask them things like: How much were you drinking that night?  How much sleep had you had that day or the night before? Were you using any drugs?  Where were you in relation to Natalee?  How much are you relying upon what others are saying to fill in the details of your own?

I think a lot of misinformation can spread very quickly in a case like this.  And even those who were closist to her that night might not be reliable for any number of reasons.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
May not be a good time to mention this but one of my students, on her Mexican senior trip, has been "missing" since last night. I don't want to say a lot more but I ask that you guys maybe say a prayer for her today.


OMG Kerin...  she is in my prayers.. !!  Im trying to get caught up reading.. left for 30 minutes ..


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 01:37:21 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
in Veracruz. I don't have a lot of details. I am trying to reach some of the chaperones. all I know is she did not return to her hotel last night and her roommate (1) reported it to the adults this morning about 5 am.


Are you kidding?!?!  This is dreadful.  Please keep us posted!!! I hope we don't have to add a second missing kid forum to this one.  I'm sending good thoughts that way.


Title: Someone is lying
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:37:35 PM
Found it.

Someone is lying.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 01:38:04 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Does anyone know what day the kids arrived in Aruba?  I remember Dash or someone saying they were there only 4 days and the first day they were "jet lagged" and just hung by the pool.


I had heard that they left the day after their graduation and that it was a 5-day trip. So it COULD be they arrived on Thursday, May 26. Not sure but


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:38:30 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
May not be a good time to mention this but one of my students, on her Mexican senior trip, has been "missing" since last night. I don't want to say a lot more but I ask that you guys maybe say a prayer for her today.


OMG Kerin!

I will say a prayer!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:39:03 PM
thanks everyone. sorry, I keep getting a CGI error? anyway, she is not "blonde and blue eyed" which some people think may be an issue (?) but she is a good kid.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Fox now 2 more from MB, Madison (roomie) & Guy. Madison: 9:30 Sun night @ BJ table!


Since I'm almost certain some of the other kids on the trip reported that Joran was seen with the group of Natalee's friends prior to the last evening, I think I'd like to hear from more of the kids.

One important note...with so many kids all in different activities throughout the week, some may not have seen things that others did.  It's just common sense that 140 kids all have different experiences and saw various things during their stay.  One group of kids may have seen Joran for the first time that night at 9:30pm while others may have been in a completely different area days before and seen him as well.

It's very hard to judge until more kids speak to this.


The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


My thoughts are this.

BH probably knows when Natalee met Joran through Joran himself. Either the day they first met or the subsequent interrogations.  

The friends probably weren't around Natalee the whole time, and she could have easily met VDS without them knowing it.  

The friends probably don't have access to the info BH has and think that she is relying on rumors, or maybe they dont know she thinks her daughter met him two days ago.

Thus they think they are setting the record straight.

Or maybe NH's mom was just misinformed, who knows.


Title: Re: Someone is lying
Post by: hope on June 22, 2005, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Found it.

Someone is lying.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.


I agree- I from my OPO believe that she must have known him well enough to trust him- if this isn't her regular level-headed way


Title: Re: Someone is lying
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:39:57 PM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Found it.

Someone is lying.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.


 :wink: So now I am not the only suspicious person looking at all of this.  :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 01:40:16 PM
Kerin...I will say a prayer for your student's safe return...I am sorry.


Title: Time in a bottle
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "DT"
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


We've now heard from 6 different MB students. Am I the only one who has heard 3 different versions of when the realized she was missing (so who was waiting in the lobby?), when NH met J?

Also, if met him at 9:30 Sun nite at BJ table, what about the SBF concert?


Okay I need someone to fill in the missing time frame or adjust it, slide it to accomodate the time line.


May29th Sunday

8am-10pm       Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .      Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar.


2pm-7?pm.        sleep, shower, drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?         Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young son Valentijn? Did Joran pick up his father?

7pm-11pm       MUSIC CONCERT
Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill,Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh

8pm-10pm      Joran won 4th place in a Poker Tournament?

11pm         Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds?.

11.30pm-1.30am    Carlos and Charlies. Approx 40 MB student were there..

12.00am-1.30am    Joran arrives with Kalpoes Bros?

1.30am-2.30am   Cruising at California Lighthouse, Fisherman’s Hut/Beach?

2.30am-3.00am   Joran’ s house??

If I leave here tomorrow
would you still remember me
For I must be travelling on now
there's too many places I gotta see


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Vole"
You will all probably think I am nuts, but just go with me for a min. Think simple and under your nose so to speak.
Suppose JVD is telling the truth as far as leaving Natalee sleeping on the beach (In a drugged sleep)
Suppose someone had been watching them and knew he could not waken her which is why he left her.
Or someone stumbles on her whatever anyway they take she is not resisting, she is passed out.
She could be hold up in some drug addicts house away from the tourist area that they would never even think of looking.


I am not going to argue with your speculation (partly because I am too tired) but I wonder just how many cases of "beach abduction by drug addicts" there are in Aruba? Iquitos?


I AM SURE THERE IS PLENTY OF TAKING ADVANTAGE OF DRUNK OR DRUGGED WOMEN GOING ON AT ANY TOURIST RESORT WHETHER BY LOCALS OR OTHER TOURISTS.  AT A LATE HOUR MORE LIKELY TO BE A LURKING LOCAL   I THINK A FATAL DRUG REACTION IS IN THE CARDS.  THIS DOES NOT EXPLAIN THE MISSING BODY.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Thumper56 on June 22, 2005, 01:40:35 PM
Have the police been notified yet KerinTX??????


Title: Re: Someone is lying
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Found it.

Someone is lying.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.


Thank you so much for finding this!  This is why I think it's very hard to determine when they first met without statements from several of the kids!!!  I'm sure the FBI covered this when interviewing them all.   As I said before, there are so many kids and so many different experiences it's wrong IMO to firmly establish their first meeting.

The kid who made this statement, a boy, seemed very observant.  He actually reported seeing Natalee an hour later than Dash..which has confused me via the timeline.  It's part of this interview maybe K in Texas can post the link and we can take another look.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:41:36 PM
KerinTX,

That is horrible, I think if we have all learned one thing so far being missing outside of this country presents a whole new set of challenges we never think about.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:41:54 PM
thanks again...and I am hopeful that it is NOTHING.

anyway, Cali, what do you make of all the differing timelines of them meeting?


Title: Re: Someone is lying
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:42:13 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Found it.

Someone is lying.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.


 :wink: So now I am not the only suspicious person looking at all of this.  :wink:


He doesn't say what he means by hanging around, they could have just been at the same table and he mistook that as them hanging out.  I just dont see the motivation for someone to lie in a situation like this.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:42:38 PM
T think we need to look closely at every thing he said.  Especially if--even as just the drug suppliers--we put the Alabama kids back into the mix.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:43:20 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
thanks everyone. sorry, I keep getting a CGI error? anyway, she is not "blonde and blue eyed" which some people think may be an issue (?) but she is a good kid.

 :wink:  I don't care if she's purple, with red hair and pink eyes lol

She's missing. That part I care about. I just feel like stalking more daughter more these days. I was barely able to let her to to the YMCA day camp this summer and that was before all of these things. The world is a sick crazy place no matter where you are or what you do. We can all teach our kids safety etc but sad thing is, sometimes there's just no being safe.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 01:44:00 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
May not be a good time to mention this but one of my students, on her Mexican senior trip, has been "missing" since last night. I don't want to say a lot more but I ask that you guys maybe say a prayer for her today.


Maybe she can get a separate topic...please let the admin know...


Title: Re: Time in a bottle
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "DT"
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


We've now heard from 6 different MB students. Am I the only one who has heard 3 different versions of when the realized she was missing (so who was waiting in the lobby?), when NH met J?

Also, if met him at 9:30 Sun nite at BJ table, what about the SBF concert?


Okay I need someone to fill in the missing time frame or adjust it, slide it to accomodate the time line.


May29th Sunday

8am-10pm       Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .      Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar.


2pm-7?pm.        sleep, shower, drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?         Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young son Valentijn? Did Joran pick up his father?

7pm-11pm       MUSIC CONCERT
Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill,Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh

8pm-10pm      Joran won 4th place in a Poker Tournament?

11pm         Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds?.

11.30pm-1.30am    Carlos and Charlies. Approx 40 MB student were there..

12.00am-1.30am    Joran arrives with Kalpoes Bros?

1.30am-2.30am   Cruising at California Lighthouse, Fisherman’s Hut/Beach?

2.30am-3.00am   Joran’ s house??

If I leave here tomorrow
would you still remember me
For I must be travelling on now
there's too many places I gotta see


I'm confused about the Kalpoe brothers and when they arrived and connected with Joran and Natalee?  Were the brothers ever reported to be in the casino?  How did they connect with the two?  Did Joran call them for a ride?  Or, did Natalee and Joran just run into them when they left? Wonder where the brothers were that evening?  And again, why would the younger brother be out so late?  Lots of questions?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 01:44:18 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Vole"
You will all probably think I am nuts, but just go with me for a min. Think simple and under your nose so to speak.
Suppose JVD is telling the truth as far as leaving Natalee sleeping on the beach (In a drugged sleep)
Suppose someone had been watching them and knew he could not waken her which is why he left her.
Or someone stumbles on her whatever anyway they take she is not resisting, she is passed out.
She could be hold up in some drug addicts house away from the tourist area that they would never even think of looking.


I am not going to argue with your speculation (partly because I am too tired) but I wonder just how many cases of "beach abduction by drug addicts" there are in Aruba? Iquitos?


I AM SURE THERE IS PLENTY OF TAKING ADVANTAGE OF DRUNK OR DRUGGED WOMEN GOING ON AT ANY TOURIST RESORT WHETHER BY LOCALS OR OTHER TOURISTS.  AT A LATE HOUR MORE LIKELY TO BE A LURKING LOCAL   I THINK A FATAL DRUG REACTION IS IN THE CARDS.  THIS DOES NOT EXPLAIN THE MISSING BODY.


Of course it does.  If joran or one of his friends gave her the drugs or drugged her then they would be in big trouble. Hence the motivation to hide the body.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:44:38 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

 He also said he heard people talk about him.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Thumper56 on June 22, 2005, 01:44:42 PM
I leave here tomorrow
would you still remember me
For I must be travelling on now
there's too many places I gotta see..



You could find this in most any senior yearbook especially one's in Alabama. It's a pretty common thing to write.I don't think it holds anything pertaining to her disappearance. Good song.....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 01:44:45 PM
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


Title: Re: Someone is lying
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 01:45:23 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Found it.

Someone is lying.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.


 :wink: So now I am not the only suspicious person looking at all of this.  :wink:



i was never able to get past this statement and kinda put it on the back burner...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 22, 2005, 01:45:57 PM
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Does anyone know what day the kids arrived in Aruba?  I remember Dash or someone saying they were there only 4 days and the first day they were "jet lagged" and just hung by the pool.


SINCE WHEN DOES A NORTH-SOUTH TRIP OVER ONE TIME ZONE CAUSE JET LAG?  JET, LAG JET SCHMAG


Good God, Iquitos, what is your deal?  I have seldom come across anyone so adversarial over even the most trivial of issues.

These kids graduated on 5/24 & so probably stayed up very late celebrating (whether with family or whatever).  The next night Dash's group (& she's the one you're scoffing at here) left for Atlanta at midnight on a bus.  After 3hours on the road, they have a layover of several hours at the Atlanta airport before they even get on the plane to Aruba.  So I guess some of them might be tired, huh.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
May not be a good time to mention this but one of my students, on her Mexican senior trip, has been "missing" since last night. I don't want to say a lot more but I ask that you guys maybe say a prayer for her today.


Maybe she can get a separate topic...please let the admin know...


Since this forum is attached to a blog that does reviews and post about MSM news stories it will be automatic if the case gets that far. In order for it to get the coverage it needs it would be far more than a thread on a board but needs some MSM as a drving force.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: "arlee"
iquitos wrote:
SWEET. ROXY, GOOD CATCH. SO THE MB BOYS HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST JORAN AND SO THEY FINGER HIM TO THE TWITTYS BEFORE THEY EVEN GET TO ARUBA AND THEY GO AFTER HIM. JORAN IS PNG BECASUE HE IS HITTIN ON THEIR LITTLE GIRLS? SWEET
 
 Um, are you kidding me?  
Are you forgetting that Joran & the brothers *admit* they left with her, and in the car which matches the description of witnesses?
And that they lied about what happened next?
You're not seriously overlooking that in favor of a theory that boys from a shoving match framed him for a possible murder...?

Aside, not to Iquitos, but about the scuffle...  Didn't it say that happened the 2nd night, not the last?  So that wouldn't be part of a final timeline, right?


If it did happen 2nd nite with Joran, how come it is now being said they didn't meet up with him until Sun nite @ 9:30 PM?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I asked that also, Angie. Because at one point we were even being told that she spent the night with Steve Croes?? Bogus I think but I would like to know if she was in her room each and every night before THIS night.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Mandiann on June 22, 2005, 01:48:40 PM
Those other kids aren't talking AT ALL..and most here seem to thinks that's OK
that they aren't pitching in to help.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 01:49:11 PM
One thing I wanted to mention...
There was a report this morning that the search team from Texas is having some problems.  One big problem is getting the Aruban authorities to allow their search dogs to come to the island.  If this is true I think we should write, fax and email anyone and everyone to call for the dogs to help with the search.

Not sure if they are having any other problems.

Right now my gut tells me Beth Twitty wants to find her daughter dead or alive and bring her home.  Justice is secondary for her right now. She wants and deserves closure.  I hope the Aruban government will do everything they can to allow expert searches by the Texas group.


Title: Re: Time in a bottle
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "DT"
Friends aren't saying anything really, except that it was crowded.


We've now heard from 6 different MB students. Am I the only one who has heard 3 different versions of when the realized she was missing (so who was waiting in the lobby?), when NH met J?

Also, if met him at 9:30 Sun nite at BJ table, what about the SBF concert?


Okay I need someone to fill in the missing time frame or adjust it, slide it to accomodate the time line.


May29th Sunday

8am-10pm       Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .      Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar.


2pm-7?pm.        sleep, shower, drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?         Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young son Valentijn? Did Joran pick up his father?

7pm-11pm       MUSIC CONCERT
Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill,Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh

8pm-10pm      Joran won 4th place in a Poker Tournament?

11pm         Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds?.

11.30pm-1.30am    Carlos and Charlies. Approx 40 MB student were there..

12.00am-1.30am    Joran arrives with Kalpoes Bros?

1.30am-2.30am   Cruising at California Lighthouse, Fisherman’s Hut/Beach?

2.30am-3.00am   Joran’ s house??

If I leave here tomorrow
would you still remember me
For I must be travelling on now
there's too many places I gotta see


I'm confused about the Kalpoe brothers and when they arrived and connected with Joran and Natalee?  Were the brothers ever reported to be in the casino?  How did they connect with the two?  Did Joran call them for a ride?  Or, did Natalee and Joran just run into them when they left? Wonder where the brothers were that evening?  And again, why would the younger brother be out so late?  Lots of questions?


Again 2 different stories, original MB'ers never saw JVDS friends. Clsoe friends say he showed up with him and his friends. They also say the left shortly after he and his friends arrived but she didn't.


Title: KISSEL STATEMENT
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:50:12 PM
KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.

THIS IS ALL WE NEED.  KISSEL SAYS HE HAD BEEN AROUND THE CASINO WITH HER FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.   NATALEE KNEW JORAN FROM ONE OR MORE ENCOUNTERS AT THE HOTEL WITNESSED BY MD HIGH STUDENTS.  

DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE SCUFFLE AT THE CASINO?  WHERE DID THAT GET INTO MY ADDLED HEAD?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:50:19 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
thanks again...and I am hopeful that it is NOTHING.

anyway, Cali, what do you make of all the differing timelines of them meeting?


I am back sticking to my theory of, this is all bigger than we can imagine.

It's almost like, everyone wants everyone to be "thrown off". The more anyone speaks the more confusing it gets.

I still would really believe she was kidnapped, BH knows it and can't tell us anything. It would make sense with all the "stories" etc etc.

Make sense with BH not out right saying "You did something to my daughter" but instead saying "they know where or what happened to Natalee". To me, it screams, something bad happened beyond their control, then have spoke and given the information but don't know where she is or perhaps are withholding the information of who took her etc.

The keeping them in jail etc, could be for protection and/or also to persuade them (with the evidence they collected while they were free) to give up names or a name of the people/person who did this.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:50:38 PM
They left, but did they go back to the hotel, or to the beach?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:51:24 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One thing I wanted to mention...
There was a report this morning that the search team from Texas is having some problems.  One big problem is getting the Aruban authorities to allow their search dogs to come to the island.  If this is true I think we should write, fax and email anyone and everyone to call for the dogs to help with the search.

Not sure if they are having any other problems.

Right now my gut tells me Beth Twitty wants to find her daughter dead or alive and bring her home.  Justice is secondary for her right now. She wants and deserves closure.  I hope the Aruban government will do everything they can to allow expert searches by the Texas group.

Nancy they have been cleared to arrive on Friday.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:52:10 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One thing I wanted to mention...
There was a report this morning that the search team from Texas is having some problems.  One big problem is getting the Aruban authorities to allow their search dogs to come to the island.  If this is true I think we should write, fax and email anyone and everyone to call for the dogs to help with the search.

Not sure if they are having any other problems.

Right now my gut tells me Beth Twitty wants to find her daughter dead or alive and bring her home.  Justice is secondary for her right now. She wants and deserves closure.  I hope the Aruban government will do everything they can to allow expert searches by the Texas group.


I agree Nancy


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Vole"
You will all probably think I am nuts, but just go with me for a min. Think simple and under your nose so to speak.
Suppose JVD is telling the truth as far as leaving Natalee sleeping on the beach (In a drugged sleep)
Suppose someone had been watching them and knew he could not waken her which is why he left her.
Or someone stumbles on her whatever anyway they take she is not resisting, she is passed out.
She could be hold up in some drug addicts house away from the tourist area that they would never even think of looking.


I am not going to argue with your speculation (partly because I am too tired) but I wonder just how many cases of "beach abduction by drug addicts" there are in Aruba? Iquitos?


I AM SURE THERE IS PLENTY OF TAKING ADVANTAGE OF DRUNK OR DRUGGED WOMEN GOING ON AT ANY TOURIST RESORT WHETHER BY LOCALS OR OTHER TOURISTS.  AT A LATE HOUR MORE LIKELY TO BE A LURKING LOCAL   I THINK A FATAL DRUG REACTION IS IN THE CARDS.  THIS DOES NOT EXPLAIN THE MISSING BODY.


Of course it does.  If joran or one of his friends gave her the drugs or drugged her then they would be in big trouble. Hence the motivation to hide the body.


There is seem to be too many mission impossible timing, the meeting at the Casino, the sneaking out at night, the coordinating after work of Deepak, the taking of his lil brother on this so called kidnapping, the sudden scuffle, that may throw the timing off.  The fact that Natalee may or may not have gone with them. The idea that they had plan b in place if such a victime died...No, I just seem too many variables.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: bamabelle11 on June 22, 2005, 01:52:36 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54


This was posted later... on June 1 or 2 I believe


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I asked that also, Angie. Because at one point we were even being told that she spent the night with Steve Croes?? Bogus I think but I would like to know if she was in her room each and every night before THIS night.

Thanks Karin.. Sometimes Im afraid to ask things ESP if they were discussed at one point or another. Made me wonder since they thought maybe she slept in etc... and as you said if she was in her room each and everynight also.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Professor on June 22, 2005, 01:53:28 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
in Veracruz. I don't have a lot of details. I am trying to reach some of the chaperones. all I know is she did not return to her hotel last night and her roommate (1) reported it to the adults this morning about 5 am.


I am so sorry to hear that. I will say a prayer for her.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54

If I'm not mistaken, this poster is DASH's mom.  54 hours would be correct as the time of this post was 11:46pm on 5/31.


Title: Re: Someone is lying
Post by: golden on June 22, 2005, 01:54:23 PM
[/quote] :wink: So now I am not the only suspicious person looking at all of this.  :wink:[/quote]

Not by a long shot.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: roxyluv on June 22, 2005, 01:54:29 PM
I'm sure most people know about this site but fot those of you that don't and do not have access to cable or are at work.
There is a lot of up-to-date videos interviews.

http://nataleeholloway.tripod.com/

I'm out of here my son is home and kicking me of the PC, I'll pray for closure for all the families involved.


Title: Re: KISSEL STATEMENT
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 01:54:51 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.

THIS IS ALL WE NEED.  KISSEL SAYS HE HAD BEEN AROUND THE CASINO WITH HER FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.   NATALEE KNEW JORAN FROM ONE OR MORE ENCOUNTERS AT THE HOTEL WITNESSED BY MD HIGH STUDENTS.  

DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE SCUFFLE AT THE CASINO?  WHERE DID THAT GET INTO MY ADDLED HEAD?


i heard about the scuffle the first day, thats how they pointed at joran...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 22, 2005, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54


This was posted later... on June 1 or 2 I believe


ah excuse me, I see the poster first posted on 5/31 and that was several posts later. That could explain the 54 hr thingy. Sorry.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 01:55:30 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 01:55:39 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


Plus, at my last estimate, we have heard from 4 kids from the trip (3 girls, one guy) but have we ever heard from Natalee's roommates? I don't want to know what someone has to say who was not in her close circle of friends. I want to hear from the girls IN HER ROOM. (and I am not bashing Dash, who is wonderful and so mature)
PLUS...where's that headcount on the number of males (chaperones and students) on that trip?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:55:49 PM
Actually he said he had heard about him, not about a scuffle.


Title: Re: Someone is lying
Post by: Terry on June 22, 2005, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: "golden"
:wink: So now I am not the only suspicious person looking at all of this.  :wink:[/quote]

Not by a long shot.[/quote]


Agreed.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: "Mandiann"
Those other kids aren't talking AT ALL..and most here seem to thinks that's OK
that they aren't pitching in to help.


Help who?  That's a ridiculous statement given every one of these kids was interviewed by the FBI!!!!  Are you suggesting they need to help you or this forum solve the case?  Sure we can help and we can ask those kids who come here, but these kids have helped and continue to help!!!

Their refusal to talk should be commended...they DO NOT want the focus to shift from finding Natalee to other side stories.

If they had refused to talk to the FBI, I would support your statement. But, that's just not true!!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rubby on June 22, 2005, 01:57:05 PM
They know something.  

I still think she is somewhere in South America.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: pinemeadows on June 22, 2005, 01:57:32 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirlHer bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.[/quote


You'll probably get a thousand responses to this, but I was told a few days ago that the chaperones or "a chaperone" did the packing that morning.  I was definitively told by someone on this board about mid-last week.  Have no idea what thread that would be in.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 01:57:37 PM
Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Does anyone know what day the kids arrived in Aruba?  I remember Dash or someone saying they were there only 4 days and the first day they were "jet lagged" and just hung by the pool.


SINCE WHEN DOES A NORTH-SOUTH TRIP OVER ONE TIME ZONE CAUSE JET LAG?  JET, LAG JET SCHMAG


Good God, Iquitos, what is your deal?  I have seldom come across anyone so adversarial over even the most trivial of issues.

These kids graduated on 5/24 & so probably stayed up very late celebrating (whether with family or whatever).  The next night Dash's group (& she's the one you're scoffing at here) left for Atlanta at midnight on a bus.  After 3hours on the road, they have a layover of several hours at the Atlanta airport before they even get on the plane to Aruba.  So I guess some of them might be tired, huh.
 

OK SO THEY WERE TIRED FORM THE TRIP AND HUNG OUT BY THE POOL.     ONE MINUTE THEIR WORD IS GOSPEL AND THE NEXT THEY ARE NOT CREDIBLE BECAUSE THEY WERE TIRED, DRUNK, NOT PAYING ATTENTION, DID NOT NOTICE, COULDN'T SEE BECAUSE IT WAS DARK, FORGOT, ETC  NO WONDER THEY NEEDED TRIP FACILITATORS


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 01:57:53 PM
KISSEL: No. I wasn't personally concerned about anything. From what I've heard, I heard people talk about him and he sounded like a nice guy. So I didn't think any big deal.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Red on June 22, 2005, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One thing I wanted to mention...
There was a report this morning that the search team from Texas is having some problems.  One big problem is getting the Aruban authorities to allow their search dogs to come to the island.  If this is true I think we should write, fax and email anyone and everyone to call for the dogs to help with the search.

Not sure if they are having any other problems.

Right now my gut tells me Beth Twitty wants to find her daughter dead or alive and bring her home.  Justice is secondary for her right now. She wants and deserves closure.  I hope the Aruban government will do everything they can to allow expert searches by the Texas group.


They seem to be, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1173
Texas EquuSearch Delayed Until Friday

The officials on Aruba have got to start understanding what the word "perception" mean. Aruban's I understand your many points about unfairness and being blamed but there has to be an image of a sense of urgency.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Terry on June 22, 2005, 01:58:43 PM
Quote from: "Rubby"
They know something.  

I still think she is somewhere in South America.


They who? MB kiddos or the three boys and a man?  lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 01:58:52 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


Plus, at my last estimate, we have heard from 4 kids from the trip (3 girls, one guy) but have we ever heard from Natalee's roommates? I don't want to know what someone has to say who was not in her close circle of friends. I want to hear from the girls IN HER ROOM. (and I am not bashing Dash, who is wonderful and so mature)
PLUS...where's that headcount on the number of males (chaperones and students) on that trip?


Madison who was on Fox today was a roomie.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: pinemeadows on June 22, 2005, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew
Their refusal to talk should be commended...they DO NOT want the focus to shift from finding Natalee to other side stories.

If they had refused to talk to the FBI, I would support your statement. But, that's just not true!!![/quote


I think perhaps this person isn't aware that the kids have been asked not to speak.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Actually he said he had heard about him, not about a scuffle.


a big blonde hair kid stated that he got into a scuffle with him( joran) and when they discovered that she was no where around.. he saidhi mind went immediaely to joran........thats how joran came into the picture...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"

SINCE WHEN DOES A NORTH-SOUTH TRIP OVER ONE TIME ZONE CAUSE JET LAG?  JET, LAG JET SCHMAG


The issue isn't the number of timezones...it's the actual time involved in travel.  I searched Expedia.com for flights between Birmingham, AL to Aruba and it returned the following flight times, which vary because of different connections.

8 hours 32 minutes
9 hours 23 minutes
9 hours 58 minutes
10 hours 44 minutes
11 hours 18 minutes

Being a frequent flyer in my job, I can vouch that this much time in airports, on planes and waiting in airport security IS very tiring.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54


This was posted later... on June 1 or 2 I believe


ah excuse me, I see the poster first posted on 5/31 and that was several posts later. That could explain the 54 hr thingy. Sorry.
 

WHO WOULD THIS POSTER BE, MRS TWITTY?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "icey"
I guess my concern is that the Holloway family is combing Aruba, and soon the waters nearby for Natalee's body.  I would be horrified at the thought of spending so much time in a body search, when she may be hidden (alive) on the island, or taken to another country. At this point the kidnap trail could be very cold.

I hope and pray Natalee is safe somewhere, but it seems like that's not possible at this point. (I don't think she ran away.)

Why am I concerned? Because this could happen to anyones teenager, and with graduation parties held/planned all over the US this story strikes home with 10's of millions of families. In this situation, it seems like we have a chance to resolve it (3 suspects who saw her last and lied.), as a opposed to a situation where no one is suspect. We don't want to see the possibility of a resolution slip away in this case!

icey


Someone should make sure they are feeding her if she is alive.

With that said on an ISLAND, 97,000 people, wouldn't someone, somewhere know something 3 weeks later. If she is alive and being held they have the wrong people in custody.


Well most likely that SOMEONE, if holding her or knows where she is, is not gonna tell. She could easily be tied up in someones cellar or basement, someone unknown to LE


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 02:02:37 PM
MSNBC is reporting they have "breaking news" from Aruba.  We've heard THAT before, but you might want to tune in to see if it's recycled or new, news.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 02:02:47 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Actually he said he had heard about him, not about a scuffle.


a big blonde hair kid stated that he got into a scuffle with him( joran) and when they discovered that she was no where around.. he saidhi mind went immediaely to joran........thats how joran came into the picture...


 NOW WOULD THAT BE BEAU?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2005, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
You'll probably get a thousand responses to this, but I was told a few days ago that the chaperones or "a chaperone" did the packing that morning.  I was definitively told by someone on this board about mid-last week.  Have no idea what thread that would be in.

WoW~ it must be true, then!  :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 02:03:19 PM
You guys are really splitting hairs with this stuff about her not being in her room that night. I can think of a ton of reasons why no one would have noticed till that morning.

1. A lot of them were probably drinking and not paying attention to this sort of stuff. When you are out partying you tend not to think about where everyone is at every sinle point and time.

2.  Some of her roommates may have gone to sleep expacting her to show up later.

3.  Most of them would probably just assume she was with someone else, its not like they had cell phone they could contact each other with, so it would have been pretty time consuming to go around asking everyone if they had seen her.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


My point exactly Cali and Karin..Im not blaming her roomates or anything like that.. I know what we did on our senior class trip.. close friends knew if we wernt going to be in our room that night..You know how girls like to tell one another everything... I guess it made me think back to my trip which was years ago. 1983 exact.. Just made me wonder if her friends may know of other evenings she may have not come back to the hotel and thought nothing of her bag being packed on the bed.. figuring perhaps shes been on all night before one of the days..?? Confusing as hell!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 02:04:24 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54


This was posted later... on June 1 or 2 I believe


ah excuse me, I see the poster first posted on 5/31 and that was several posts later. That could explain the 54 hr thingy. Sorry.
 

WHO WOULD THIS POSTER BE, MRS TWITTY?

According to DASH....it is her mom (Dash).  Iquitos don't get your panties in a bunch, it's not becoming.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 02:05:05 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54



Nope, 54.  That was me.  Natalee was last seen 2:00 a.m. on 5/30.  I didn't post this until Wed. June 1 right before 10:00 cst.  My math is not the best (in fact it's the worst) but that's in the ball park.

I started that thread on the visitAruba board because we couldn't find any info & had been losing our minds over it.  I was hoping to find an email address for a police station in case a PIO could give us any info at all.  The rumors we were hearing were horrible & we had virtually no official means of getting info.  I had never used a message board before & just gave it a shot.  Turns out another MB lady was starting a thread at tripadvisor at almost the same time.  A poster at visitaruba directed me there, & I found this board after someone posted links at one or both.

You'll note in there that we'd heard the suspect was a career criminal & ws unresponsive in interrogation.  This turned out to be VDS, who is not a career criminal and was not being interrogated.  We also had googled the article about the previous month's kidnapping in Aruba.  You'll see a lot of early discussion on that.  That's why I posted yesterday when I got official word that the case was in Aruba, IRAQ.

As an aside:
This serves as an example of how inconsistencies in stories can happen easily, something we've discussed on the boards for a couple of days at least.  And how something you hear from one person and believe and repeat can turn out to have been something else altogether.  It doesn't mean you were lying when you said it.  And it doesn't mean you're suspiciously changing your story when you correct it, having found a more reliable source.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:06:05 PM
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 02:06:14 PM
Whoops, 1:30 a.m., not 2


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 02:06:23 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


My point exactly Cali and Karin..Im not blaming her roomates or anything like that.. I know what we did on our senior class trip.. close friends knew if we wernt going to be in our room that night..You know how girls like to tell one another everything... I guess it made me think back to my trip which was years ago. 1983 exact.. Just made me wonder if her friends may know of other evenings she may have not come back to the hotel and thought nothing of her bag being packed on the bed.. figuring perhaps shes been on all night before one of the days..?? Confusing as hell!


This has been said before, but I believe I heard someone say that they packed her bags for her in the morning.  Thinking she was with someone else.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:07:43 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Actually he said he had heard about him, not about a scuffle.


a big blonde hair kid stated that he got into a scuffle with him( joran) and when they discovered that she was no where around.. he saidhi mind went immediaely to joran........thats how joran came into the picture...


 NOW WOULD THAT BE BEAU?


i believe his name was beau....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54


No. I have a copy of this post. The 54 is correct.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:08:58 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...

Rob, darling, dear.. lol

Since we can not know anything going on in the investigation, we would not know what they are doing.  :wink:

Don't give up on them so easily.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:09:05 PM
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.



Good Point, maybe those two didn't see her w/ Joran earlier *shrugs*


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:09:26 PM
iquitos, he was the first person to be interviewed...on day one , day two at the latest...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 22, 2005, 02:09:54 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
MSNBC is reporting they have "breaking news" from Aruba.  We've heard THAT before, but you might want to tune in to see if it's recycled or new, news.


For those of us stuck at work please let us know what the news is...

Thanks!!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...

Rob, darling, dear.. lol

Since we can not know anything going on in the investigation, we would not know what they are doing.  :wink:

Don't give up on them so easily.
dear they are delaying the search team.. thats a fact.. ok


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:10:53 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


My point exactly Cali and Karin..Im not blaming her roomates or anything like that.. I know what we did on our senior class trip.. close friends knew if we wernt going to be in our room that night..You know how girls like to tell one another everything... I guess it made me think back to my trip which was years ago. 1983 exact.. Just made me wonder if her friends may know of other evenings she may have not come back to the hotel and thought nothing of her bag being packed on the bed.. figuring perhaps shes been on all night before one of the days..?? Confusing as hell!


This has been said before, but I believe I heard someone say that they packed her bags for her in the morning.  Thinking she was with someone else.


No, as I heard it Nat packed her bags the night before, the Chaperones just took them to the airport/bus in case she overslept & was running late


Title: Who did not do their job?
Post by: Just Wondering on June 22, 2005, 02:11:08 PM
The are a lot of people who are getting accused of not doing their jobs:
1. Natalee
2. Her friends
3. Her parents
4. Chaparones

The people who did the worst job on this was the press.
The local press said they cannot get information because of hte law.
Those3 boys wondered the streets of Aruba for 10 DAYS after they were questioned.
Beth Twilly and her husband and friends found Joran the 1st DAY after Natalee disappeared.

Where was the local press? There were no restrictions on them by the law.
Where was the US press those 1st 10 days?

Scott Peterson got himself "convicted" on the Diane Sawyer show by his own lies in front of the nation.
If the press had done their jobs we could have put a lot more pressure on the suspects.

After watching Greta last night, I think Joran and Scott P. have a lot of the same traits.......using their looks and charm to get them out of scrapes, an over-protective mother, etc.
I think those personality traits exhibited themselves by Joran's reaction when Beth T. was not tricked by them that 1st night, demanding to know where her daughter was.

Unfortunately, even with every thing against Scott P., the U..S LE would not arrest him until AFTER the bodies were found.
If there is no evidence of Natalee, dead or alive, after 116 days they will walk. I am sure they know that.
Why should they talk?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 02:11:16 PM
By the way, I for one wouldn't be surprised if she had stayed out all night before. Kids who are out having a good time probably would stay out all night at least once. So I can see her friends not being to concerned over something like that happening.  It certainly isn't anything against her character though, since lots of people stay out all night.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 02:11:35 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
 

HER FRIENDS AND ROOM MATES ON GRETA LAST NIGHT DID NOT USE THE DODGE THAT THEY SLEPT AROUND IN DIFFERENT ROOMS, SAID THEY WERE VERY WORRIED WHEN THEY WOKE UP TO FIND HER NOT THERE AND REPORTED IT TO THE CHAPERONES.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Terry on June 22, 2005, 02:11:39 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.



Good Point, maybe those two didn't see her w/ Joran earlier *shrugs*
Thinking the same Diva.

Also thinking Nat's mother at this point would know more. Shrugging too.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 22, 2005, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "iquitos"

SINCE WHEN DOES A NORTH-SOUTH TRIP OVER ONE TIME ZONE CAUSE JET LAG?  JET, LAG JET SCHMAG


The issue isn't the number of timezones...it's the actual time involved in travel.  I searched Expedia.com for flights between Birmingham, AL to Aruba and it returned the following flight times, which vary because of different connections.

8 hours 32 minutes
9 hours 23 minutes
9 hours 58 minutes
10 hours 44 minutes
11 hours 18 minutes

Being a frequent flyer in my job, I can vouch that this much time in airports, on planes and waiting in airport security IS very tiring.


I am pretty sure they went out of Atlanta, for some reason I thought I remembered a reporter saying they took a bus from Bham to Atlanta for flight


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:12:07 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...

Rob, darling, dear.. lol

Since we can not know anything going on in the investigation, we would not know what they are doing.  :wink:

Don't give up on them so easily.
dear they are delaying the search team.. thats a fact.. ok


 Thanks Rob. I believe you.  :laughing @ Rob & Cali w/ their Dears:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: xcptnl on June 22, 2005, 02:12:23 PM
I thought it was determined first thing this morning that the search team was already there????!!!!!!  I read that in this board.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 02:13:47 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
 

HER FRIENDS AND ROOM MATES ON GREAT LAST NIGHT DID NOT USE THE DODGE THAT THEY SLEPT AROUND IN DIFFERENT ROOMS, SAID THEY WERE VERY WORRIED WHEN THEY WOKE UP TO FIND HER NOT THERE AND REPORTED IT TO THE CHAPERONES.


How is that a dodge? It seems like a very legtitimate thing to me.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:13:52 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...

Rob, darling, dear.. lol

Since we can not know anything going on in the investigation, we would not know what they are doing.  :wink:

Don't give up on them so easily.
dear they are delaying the search team.. thats a fact.. ok
In no way am I standing up for the delay but it is quite normal while flying any animal to have proper paperwork and permits. There are laws governing the transportation of all animals outside the US. ie shot records etc etc


Title: Re: Who did not do their job?
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: "Just Wondering"
The are a lot of people who are getting accused of not doing their jobs:
1. Natalee
2. Her friends
3. Her parents
4. Chaparones

The people who did the worst job on this was the press.
The local press said they cannot get information because of hte law.
Those3 boys wondered the streets of Aruba for 10 DAYS after they were questioned.
Beth Twilly and her husband and friends found Joran the 1st DAY after Natalee disappeared.

Where was the local press? There were no restrictions on them by the law.
Where was the US press those 1st 10 days?

Scott Peterson got himself "convicted" on the Diane Sawyer show by his own lies in front of the nation.
If the press had done their jobs we could have put a lot more pressure on the suspects.

After watching Greta last night, I think Joran and Scott P. have a lot of the same traits.......using their looks and charm to get them out of scrapes, an over-protective mother, etc.
I think those personality traits exhibited themselves by Joran's reaction when Beth T. was not tricked by them that 1st night, demanding to know where her daughter was.

Unfortunately, even with every thing against Scott P., the U..S LE would not arrest him until AFTER the bodies were found.
If there is no evidence of Natalee, dead or alive, after 116 days they will walk. I am sure they know that.
Why should they talk?


WOW Joran= Scott Peterson  :shock:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: katya on June 22, 2005, 02:14:34 PM
In yesterdays interview with greta, BHT says:

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever see these three young men before that day?

TWITTY: Not to my knowledge, Greta.

She also states that she hasn't talked to any of the kids, which I think is odd..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160231,00.html[/url]


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:14:55 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...

Rob, darling, dear.. lol

Since we can not know anything going on in the investigation, we would not know what they are doing.  :wink:

Don't give up on them so easily.
dear they are delaying the search team.. thats a fact.. ok


 Thanks Rob. I believe you.  :laughing @ Rob & Cali w/ their Dears:
LMAO I am "trying" my best to love ROb but he won't let me LOL


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:14:59 PM
Quote from: "xcptnl"
I thought it was determined first thing this morning that the search team was already there????!!!!!!  I read that in this board.

the fabulously dressed rueben trachenberg just stated that they will be delayed.. do to the fact the the arubans just dont know who they are....and want them to fill out all kinds of bullshit paper work.. thats the spirit of cooperation....there doing it to themselves....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 02:15:04 PM
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.


I don't recall anywhere the parents or authorities confirming they met earlier!  I'd check that "fact" again.


Title: Re: Who did not do their job?
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 02:15:17 PM
Quote from: "Just Wondering"
The are a lot of people who are getting accused of not doing their jobs:
1. Natalee
2. Her friends
3. Her parents
4. Chaparones

The people who did the worst job on this was the press.
The local press said they cannot get information because of hte law.
Those3 boys wondered the streets of Aruba for 10 DAYS after they were questioned.
Beth Twilly and her husband and friends found Joran the 1st DAY after Natalee disappeared.

Where was the local press? There were no restrictions on them by the law.
Where was the US press those 1st 10 days?

Scott Peterson got himself "convicted" on the Diane Sawyer show by his own lies in front of the nation.
If the press had done their jobs we could have put a lot more pressure on the suspects.

After watching Greta last night, I think Joran and Scott P. have a lot of the same traits.......using their looks and charm to get them out of scrapes, an over-protective mother, etc.
I think those personality traits exhibited themselves by Joran's reaction when Beth T. was not tricked by them that 1st night, demanding to know where her daughter was.

Unfortunately, even with every thing against Scott P., the U..S LE would not arrest him until AFTER the bodies were found.
If there is no evidence of Natalee, dead or alive, after 116 days they will walk. I am sure they know that.
Why should they talk?
 

YOU GOT THAT ONE, AP WAS THERE AND THEY GOT THE THING ONTO TV BUT THE JOURNALISM HAS BEEN VERY WEAK


Title: Re: Who did not do their job?
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:15:34 PM
Quote from: "Just Wondering"
The are a lot of people who are getting accused of not doing their jobs:
1. Natalee
2. Her friends
3. Her parents
4. Chaparones

The people who did the worst job on this was the press.
The local press said they cannot get information because of hte law.
Those3 boys wondered the streets of Aruba for 10 DAYS after they were questioned.
Beth Twilly and her husband and friends found Joran the 1st DAY after Natalee disappeared.

Where was the local press? There were no restrictions on them by the law.
Where was the US press those 1st 10 days?

Scott Peterson got himself "convicted" on the Diane Sawyer show by his own lies in front of the nation.
If the press had done their jobs we could have put a lot more pressure on the suspects.

After watching Greta last night, I think Joran and Scott P. have a lot of the same traits.......using their looks and charm to get them out of scrapes, an over-protective mother, etc.
I think those personality traits exhibited themselves by Joran's reaction when Beth T. was not tricked by them that 1st night, demanding to know where her daughter was.

Unfortunately, even with every thing against Scott P., the U..S LE would not arrest him until AFTER the bodies were found.
If there is no evidence of Natalee, dead or alive, after 116 days they will walk. I am sure they know that.
Why should they talk?



Actually Modesto was in the process of getting their arrest warrant when the bodies washed up, they already had enough evidence. The bodies just sealed the deal. This was confirmed In people magazines interviews w/ the cops, detectives & prosecutors & also catherine Crier's book.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Cents on June 22, 2005, 02:15:44 PM
The press to convict suspects? Now this is crazy, you have no idea what you are demanding. Lynch mob justice. What are you people thinking here? The case needs to be investigated by the police, not the victims family or tabloid journalists. This is a scary mentality.


Title: Re: Who did not do their job?
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:15:52 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Just Wondering"
The are a lot of people who are getting accused of not doing their jobs:
1. Natalee
2. Her friends
3. Her parents
4. Chaparones

The people who did the worst job on this was the press.
The local press said they cannot get information because of hte law.
Those3 boys wondered the streets of Aruba for 10 DAYS after they were questioned.
Beth Twilly and her husband and friends found Joran the 1st DAY after Natalee disappeared.

Where was the local press? There were no restrictions on them by the law.
Where was the US press those 1st 10 days?

Scott Peterson got himself "convicted" on the Diane Sawyer show by his own lies in front of the nation.
If the press had done their jobs we could have put a lot more pressure on the suspects.

After watching Greta last night, I think Joran and Scott P. have a lot of the same traits.......using their looks and charm to get them out of scrapes, an over-protective mother, etc.
I think those personality traits exhibited themselves by Joran's reaction when Beth T. was not tricked by them that 1st night, demanding to know where her daughter was.

Unfortunately, even with every thing against Scott P., the U..S LE would not arrest him until AFTER the bodies were found.
If there is no evidence of Natalee, dead or alive, after 116 days they will walk. I am sure they know that.
Why should they talk?


WOW Joran= Scott Peterson  :shock:


scott peterson = :twisted:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 02:16:19 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
sorry cali..I know I am way behind due to phone, but how many roommates were there? assuming 2 beds per room so i am assuming 4 girls/room. so if natalee's bags were packed and on the bed all night, then no one used that bed so maybe we know why no one reported her not coming in...because they never did either? doesn't solve anything but maybe answers why they didn't know.
(and pardon me if this was already stated by someone else)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"

I think perhaps this person isn't aware that the kids have been asked not to speak.


The kids have been asked by NH parents not to speak TO THE MEDIA.  The kids have been fully cooperative with the FBI.  There's a BIG difference.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: golden on June 22, 2005, 02:17:15 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
I think perhaps this person isn't aware that the kids have been asked not to speak.


By Natalee's family, not by the FBI.  Bill O'Reilly totally debunked that myth.

Is it really justice to want everything Aruba has regarding this case but not want to reciporcate?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:17:19 PM
Quote from: "katya"
In yesterdays interview with greta, BHT says:

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever see these three young men before that day?

TWITTY: Not to my knowledge, Greta.

She also states that she hasn't talked to any of the kids, which I think is odd..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160231,00.html[/url]


I was trying to bring that out but got Beth's interveiws confused thank you.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:17:30 PM
<==iz snuggable and huggable..... :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 02:17:51 PM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One thing I wanted to mention...
There was a report this morning that the search team from Texas is having some problems.  One big problem is getting the Aruban authorities to allow their search dogs to come to the island.  If this is true I think we should write, fax and email anyone and everyone to call for the dogs to help with the search.

Not sure if they are having any other problems.

Right now my gut tells me Beth Twitty wants to find her daughter dead or alive and bring her home.  Justice is secondary for her right now. She wants and deserves closure.  I hope the Aruban government will do everything they can to allow expert searches by the Texas group.


They seem to be, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1173
Texas EquuSearch Delayed Until Friday



The officials on Aruba have got to start understanding what the word "perception" mean. Aruban's I understand your many points about unfairness and being blamed but there has to be an image of a sense of urgency.


Just heard on Fox they may not even get there on Friday. Trappenberg from Aruba came up with some lame excuses why they couldn't go yet. BULL! I see cats and dogs traveling to Aruba frequently to vacation with their families, as well as with Aruba residents who purchased their pets in the U.S. The only requirement is a form letter from a vet stating the animal appears healthy and is current on shots. C'mon, guys. Please just be truthful in your excuses!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:18:14 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "xcptnl"
I thought it was determined first thing this morning that the search team was already there????!!!!!!  I read that in this board.

the fabulously dressed rueben trachenberg just stated that they will be delayed.. do to the fact the the arubans just dont know who they are....and want them to fill out all kinds of bullshit paper work.. thats the spirit of cooperation....there doing it to themselves....


I need to shop where he shops.


Title: Re: Who did not do their job?
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 02:18:28 PM
WOW Joran= Scott Peterson  :shock:[/quote]

no comparison


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
 

HER FRIENDS AND ROOM MATES ON GRETA LAST NIGHT DID NOT USE THE DODGE THAT THEY SLEPT AROUND IN DIFFERENT ROOMS, SAID THEY WERE VERY WORRIED WHEN THEY WOKE UP TO FIND HER NOT THERE AND REPORTED IT TO THE CHAPERONES.


I would wonder IF her friends or a chaperone packed her things..thinking maybe she slept in..in another room.. wouldnt someone think that perhaps there may be something in her bag she may of needed to get ready to leave?? Clothes..make up.. ??? Just a thought..


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:20:00 PM
Quote from: "another monkey"
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One thing I wanted to mention...
There was a report this morning that the search team from Texas is having some problems.  One big problem is getting the Aruban authorities to allow their search dogs to come to the island.  If this is true I think we should write, fax and email anyone and everyone to call for the dogs to help with the search.

Not sure if they are having any other problems.

Right now my gut tells me Beth Twitty wants to find her daughter dead or alive and bring her home.  Justice is secondary for her right now. She wants and deserves closure.  I hope the Aruban government will do everything they can to allow expert searches by the Texas group.


They seem to be, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1173
Texas EquuSearch Delayed Until Friday



The officials on Aruba have got to start understanding what the word "perception" mean. Aruban's I understand your many points about unfairness and being blamed but there has to be an image of a sense of urgency.


Just heard on Fox they may not even get there on Friday. Trappenberg from Aruba came up with some lame excuses why they couldn't go yet. BULL! I see cats and dogs traveling to Aruba frequently to vacation with their families, as well as with Aruba residents who purchased their pets in the U.S. The only requirement is a form letter from a vet stating the animal appears healthy and is current on shots. C'mon, guys. Please just be truthful in your excuses!


if their so worried about a dog problem maybe they should start with those dogs that wander the beaches.....i can barely call em dogs....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:20:00 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
sorry cali..I know I am way behind due to phone, but how many roommates were there? assuming 2 beds per room so i am assuming 4 girls/room. so if natalee's bags were packed and on the bed all night, then no one used that bed so maybe we know why no one reported her not coming in...because they never did either? doesn't solve anything but maybe answers why they didn't know.
(and pardon me if this was already stated by someone else)


4 per room.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: xcptnl on June 22, 2005, 02:20:48 PM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "another monkey"
Fox News is going to have someone in Aruba of the search team from Texas on in just minutes. Guess CNN was wrong about their postponing til Friday!

Thank you. I thought I heard on fox they were taking the red eye. I guess they did after all. Hope they can find her!!



This is why I was confused as this was posted this morning.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 02:20:52 PM
LISTEN RIGHT NOW ON TOP 95

Go to www.arubadag.com and click TOP 95


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
sorry cali..I know I am way behind due to phone, but how many roommates were there? assuming 2 beds per room so i am assuming 4 girls/room. so if natalee's bags were packed and on the bed all night, then no one used that bed so maybe we know why no one reported her not coming in...because they never did either? doesn't solve anything but maybe answers why they didn't know.
(and pardon me if this was already stated by someone else)


I believe Dash said Natalee had 3 roomates... anyone care to correct me? Dash stated she had 4 or was it this was total in a room including them?

Thrying to be specific as always lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 02:21:39 PM
INTERVIEW IN ENGLISH WITH A MRS. ROSS

www.arubadag.com and click top 95


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 02:22:28 PM
AN AMERICAM DEFENDING ARUBA AND ITS POSITION RIGHT NOW

www.arubadag.com and click top 95


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 22, 2005, 02:22:34 PM
Seach team was doing tsunami searches.  I would think all the papers and shots would have been current because of that.  Its not like that was ten years ago.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: "xcptnl"
I thought it was determined first thing this morning that the search team was already there????!!!!!!  I read that in this board.


nope CNN reported that they had problems w/ a charted jet & there were issues w/ permits & such, but that the Texas team was in touch w/ the Aruban PM who greenlighted the whole thing.....Thats what I was reading on my cell at the Dentist's office anyway


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:23:16 PM
Quote from: "xcptnl"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "another monkey"
Fox News is going to have someone in Aruba of the search team from Texas on in just minutes. Guess CNN was wrong about their postponing til Friday!

Thank you. I thought I heard on fox they were taking the red eye. I guess they did after all. Hope they can find her!!



This is why I was confused as this was posted this morning.


Some members (at least a group lead) is there and did take the red eye.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 02:23:34 PM
Quote from: "xcptnl"
I thought it was determined first thing this morning that the search team was already there????!!!!!!  I read that in this board.


Apparently the leader of the search group is in Aruba trying to work out details for the team.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:23:48 PM
hey guys,,been a busy morning..just cecking in..hope all is well...

I am starting to think that they arent gonna let equuasearch in....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 02:24:17 PM
THANK YOU MISS. ROSS FOR EXPLAINING YOUR POINT OF VIEW AS AN AMERICAN WHO KNOWS THE ISLAND.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

www.arubadag.com and click Top 95


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: joebob on June 22, 2005, 02:24:47 PM
Teo, Americaninaruba,

any news on the case?

thanks


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 22, 2005, 02:25:02 PM
You guys are blaming Aruba for their laws on not letting the dogs arrive there before proper proceedure is done? Heck, this is done in EVERY single country. And it's just the way it is.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: golden on June 22, 2005, 02:25:04 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
the fabulously dressed rueben trachenberg .


He does always look nice does'nt he?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2005, 02:25:09 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "xcptnl"
I thought it was determined first thing this morning that the search team was already there????!!!!!!  I read that in this board.


Apparently the leader of the search group is in Aruba trying to work out details for the team.


PM: ok you guys can come on down, just no dogs and no sonar equipment.. oh, did i mention, thurs is two for one nite a C&C......


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:25:26 PM
Not sure who made the innuedno that we were putting blame etc on the students, chaperones etc. That is not the case.

We have very little reliable fact other than Natalee is missing. Somethings do not make sense and leaves many of us in confusion.

Everyone wants Natalee home. The only people who can speak legally, perhaps give us some insite, understanding, do not speak or leave us in further confusion with more questions.

They are vaild, respectable, well put questions. I see no finger pointing in them but rather a caring concern for wanting to understand this.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:25:30 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
AN AMERICAM DEFENDING ARUBA AND ITS POSITION RIGHT NOW

www.arubadag.com and click top 95


Thanks Teo.. dangit I just tuned in and missed it.. its over already  wahhhhhhh.... anything she said interesting?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Terry on June 22, 2005, 02:25:32 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
THANK YOU MISS. ROSS FOR EXPLAINING YOUR POINT OF VIEW AS AN AMERICAN WHO KNOWS THE ISLAND.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

www.arubadag.com and click Top 95


Hey, care to share, for us that didn't hear?? Thank you!! :D


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Scarlet on June 22, 2005, 02:26:35 PM
I have to get back to work, did anybody say what MSN's breaking news was?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 02:26:37 PM
Do not know if they will repeat the interview, but by now it is over.

If anyone paid attention to my post and went to www.arubadag.com and clicked Top 95 to listen for themself..a thank you for you also

Bye bye by now, maybe later I might come back.

Teo


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 02:26:45 PM
well then that's just a load of BS. You don't have packed suitcases sitting on a bed with someone sleeping in it! Plus, Natalee would have needed something from that suitcase (at the LEAST her makeup which teens would not be caught dead without) before going to the airport. So her friends saying "they didn't think it strange", "they thought she was in another room" etc is just not accurate.
I understand that they may be embarrased or something themselves for things they did in Aruba but when a girl is missing, EVERY detail counts!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 02:27:01 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...

Rob, darling, dear.. lol

Since we can not know anything going on in the investigation, we would not know what they are doing.  :wink:

Don't give up on them so easily.
dear they are delaying the search team.. thats a fact.. ok
In no way am I standing up for the delay but it is quite normal while flying any animal to have proper paperwork and permits. There are laws governing the transportation of all animals outside the US. ie shot records etc etc


This rescue team takes these dogs all over the world on rescues, you think they don't have their shot records?? All the need is a 5 minute checkup with a vet and a form letter. Aruba is threatened by the FBI, the international press, and now, RESCUE DOGS!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:27:19 PM
did anyone see Dayside with Linda Vester? Pretty good show..
Now, has she gotten really fat, or is she preggo??


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: RubaRiba on June 22, 2005, 02:27:19 PM
Quote from: "xcptnl"
I thought it was determined first thing this morning that the search team was already there????!!!!!!  I read that in this board.


I got the impression (from Fox this morning) that the search team could arrive at anytime, and would be welcomed, and they would be considered as volunteers in the search (like others that have willing done on their own time), also they'd be getting information of where on the island nobody has searched yet, so they would not take time searching areas already searched. But there might be a hold up with the dogs, and I'm thinking (just my own thoughts - nothing factual) it might have to do with quarintine of animals. Animals going from country to country might have a waiting period, I know there is one for Hawaii, and I would assume that it might be the same for country to country.

But then again, what do I know :shock:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 22, 2005, 02:27:30 PM
I have already said this don't know if anyone seen it, I feel it is very plausible and a lot more realisitc than many of the other proposed scenerios (international kidnapping, drug rings, etc.)

If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap. Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point. I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share. In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink? (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from? Consider this scenerio: IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio. As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know. MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.

Aslo- with the recent reporting of fights between MBHS boys and Joran... leads to further speculation.  Why would MBH boys get into a fight with Joran?  Did they want to "hook up" with Natalee and feel Joran was impeading that?  That is usually the most common reason for such fights; over a girl.

The fact that Joran knew that MBH boys knew who he was ever further confirms why Joran and the brothers would act guilty.  Put yourself in their position.  You take a girl away from a bar, the same girl whose guy friends you got into a fight with, and she mysteriously dies on you on the beach.... Joran and the brothers to realize "hey this is not good we are goign to be the first people they suspect"  
....plus Joran and the boys would almost definetly have 0 knowledge of Natalee being drugged by MBHS boys.... so her death to them is just as big of a mysterious as it is to us... so what do they tell the police?  "UM yea she just went unconcious and died... police do an autopsy and find the cause to be drugs.. who do you think is taking the rap for that???


Title: Inter view with Mrs Ross
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 02:27:32 PM
American Ross, on the show 95.1 expressing her support of Aruba, and dispelling negative publicity.  Mrs Ross says negative publicity is undeserved.   She point out the govt closing down to assit the search for Nat.  The cancellation of a mini carnaval of Aruba out of respect of Nat.  Why does Aruba deserve this negative feed?  Also a mention of some American Devine about boycotting Aruba is undeserved...had an Arubian been lost in America doubtful if search was done prior to 24hr for missing person...nor forget about closing the govt for a search, blah blah blah..


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Seach team was doing tsunami searches.  I would think all the papers and shots would have been current because of that.  Its not like that was ten years ago.
Yes Another K but every country is different, just as every state in the US has different laws. Heck, when driving from Ls Vegas back from California, I have to go through a search station for fruit! Because you can not transport plants and fruit into California....


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Terry on June 22, 2005, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
Do not know if they will repeat the interview, but by now it is over.

If anyone paid attention to my post and went to www.arubadag.com and clicked Top 95 to listen for themself..a thank you for you also

Bye bye by now, maybe later I might come back.

Teo
Boo hoo.... some of us couldn't listen at that moment!!

Did anybody else hear what was said?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:28:33 PM
Quote from: "another monkey"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Rob"
if natalee is alive, the aruban authorities dont appear to willing to have her found, now delaying the search team for bogus reason....this might be my last trip there, i just dont like the way the handle things...

Rob, darling, dear.. lol

Since we can not know anything going on in the investigation, we would not know what they are doing.  :wink:

Don't give up on them so easily.
dear they are delaying the search team.. thats a fact.. ok
In no way am I standing up for the delay but it is quite normal while flying any animal to have proper paperwork and permits. There are laws governing the transportation of all animals outside the US. ie shot records etc etc


This rescue team takes these dogs all over the world on rescues, you think they don't have their shot records?? All the need is a 5 minute checkup with a vet and a form letter. Aruba is threatened by the FBI, the international press, and now, RESCUE DOGS!


ditto that, monkey!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:29:58 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
well then that's just a load of BS. You don't have packed suitcases sitting on a bed with someone sleeping in it! Plus, Natalee would have needed something from that suitcase (at the LEAST her makeup which teens would not be caught dead without) before going to the airport. So her friends saying "they didn't think it strange", "they thought she was in another room" etc is just not accurate.
I understand that they may be embarrased or something themselves for things they did in Aruba but when a girl is missing, EVERY detail counts!!


Agreed Kerin. Heck even as an adult..I am left scrambling everywhere I go because I am trying to pack my things I use before I leave lol ie hair brush, tooth brush etc etc oh yeah..clean undies lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Saussay on June 22, 2005, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
LISTEN RIGHT NOW ON TOP 95

Go to www.arubadag.com and click TOP 95


Yes, I have never visited Aruba, but if I get chance I will.  And everything she is saying is true.  We have I couldn't even count the number of missing people.  We have drive by shootings everyday that go unsolved.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 02:30:24 PM
Quote from: "xcptnl"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "another monkey"
Fox News is going to have someone in Aruba of the search team from Texas on in just minutes. Guess CNN was wrong about their postponing til Friday!

Thank you. I thought I heard on fox they were taking the red eye. I guess they did after all. Hope they can find her!!



This is why I was confused as this was posted this morning.


Fox News made the announcement this morning!


Title: Re: Inter view with Mrs Ross
Post by: Terry on June 22, 2005, 02:30:30 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
American Ross, on the show 95.1 expressing her support of Aruba, and dispelling negative publicity.  Mrs Ross says negative publicity is undeserved.   She point out the govt closing down to assit the search for Nat.  The cancellation of a mini carnaval of Aruba out of respect of Nat.  Why does Aruba deserve this negative feed?  Also a mention of some American Devine about boycotting Aruba is undeserved...had an Arubian been lost in America doubtful if search was done prior to 24hr for missing person...nor forget about closing the govt for a search, blah blah blah..
Okay, ty.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: katya on June 22, 2005, 02:30:32 PM
I think maybe she met VDS in the pm, arranged to meet later, came back and packed her stuff thinking she was going to be out very late. She sounds like an organized type of girl.

Or maybe when she was late in the am someone packed for her to cover for her being late.

Either way, I don't see how it is an important detail.  

 Also it has been repeated many times that she had two roomies, some of the other rooms had 4 girls.

I suspect these kids partied a lot harder than their parents think..I live in a Mexican Sprink break town and I have seen this age in action. (And I see nothing wrong with it, except that they fall off balconies and such :cry: )


Title: "Deepak" e-mail
Post by: ChytownEd on June 22, 2005, 02:31:04 PM
I apologize if I'm departing from line of discussion for past couple of pages. Had to stop to answer my phone before I could post my take on the alleged e-mail from Deepak.

The tone and over-detailed narrative don't sound like an e-mail I would send a friend if I were in his place. (Or, at least, not if I had nothing to hide.) Too much irrelevant detail. If you or I were in Deepak's place and wanted to warn a friend that they were going to hear all kinds of things about us, is this what we'd say? We'd probably cut to the chase and explain that my friend so and so, brother Satish and I were at the same location as this girl that night, and had given her a ride to wherever or gone to such and such a place and then dropped her off. But would we really tell this elaborate story - complete with claims that Natalee was too drunk to stand up? More likely we'd spend more time explaining that it turned out that we'd been the last people to see her, so naturally were considered possible witnesses and questioned. And then express concern about the way the media had gone on a feeding frenzy and was upsetting our families and trashing our reputation.
 
Luckily, Natalee's friends from Mtn Brook can probably refute much of what the "e-mail" alleges about events at the casino and at CNC's.

This isn't the first misleading information circulated by person or persons unknown (ref. post claiming that the Max Arends questioned was not Joran's friend and fellow student at the International School, but one Maxito Arendsz, who may be the same person anyway). I'm also unconvinced that those two photos of Steve Croes aren't the same guy.

Sorry for the length of this post. I just think we should all be aware that family or friends of those involved can access this and other Internet boards and use the forum to muddy the waters.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
well then that's just a load of BS. You don't have packed suitcases sitting on a bed with someone sleeping in it! Plus, Natalee would have needed something from that suitcase (at the LEAST her makeup which teens would not be caught dead without) before going to the airport. So her friends saying "they didn't think it strange", "they thought she was in another room" etc is just not accurate.
I understand that they may be embarrased or something themselves for things they did in Aruba but when a girl is missing, EVERY detail counts!!


I agree Karin.. I mentioned that as well about clothes or makeup on the last page..didnt know if anyone saw it or not..!! What if the poor girl did come back late..and her things are gone and shes in her pj's or whatnot..  that makes no sense to me....I am sure kids may have done things they would not do at home. Havnt we all?? Perhaps they are afraid for their own parents to find out?? I dunno... I agree with you 100%


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: GreatOwl on June 22, 2005, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: "golden"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
I think perhaps this person isn't aware that the kids have been asked not to speak.


By Natalee's family, not by the FBI.  Bill O'Reilly totally debunked that myth.

Is it really justice to want everything Aruba has regarding this case but not want to reciporcate?


Now there is an excellent Point!!!!!  the FBI can turn over everything to the Aruban authorities that they have gotten in the states and the Arubans in exchange can provide all their information from Aruba to the FBI.  That way BHT can be kept in the loop.   Great suggestion.....   Now will the Arubans agree to that.  ?????


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 02:31:44 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.


I don't recall anywhere the parents or authorities confirming they met earlier!  I'd check that "fact" again.


Well, here's one of the stories I read it in - the Birmingham News dated June 11, 2005.

"Holloway's mother and stepfather said earlier Friday they had uncovered van der Sloot's connection to their daughter within 24 hours of her disappearance by talking to other students who were on the trip. They then found surveillance videotapes showing van der Sloot playing poker with other Mountain Brook teens in their hotel's casino two days before she vanished."

The URL is:  
http://www.al.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml?birminghamnews?nmet&coll=2

I can find others I'm sure.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
well then that's just a load of BS. You don't have packed suitcases sitting on a bed with someone sleeping in it! Plus, Natalee would have needed something from that suitcase (at the LEAST her makeup which teens would not be caught dead without) before going to the airport. So her friends saying "they didn't think it strange", "they thought she was in another room" etc is just not accurate.
I understand that they may be embarrased or something themselves for things they did in Aruba but when a girl is missing, EVERY detail counts!!


Agreed Kerin. Heck even as an adult..I am left scrambling everywhere I go because I am trying to pack my things I use before I leave lol ie hair brush, tooth brush etc etc oh yeah..clean undies lol

amen to that, sistah!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:32:25 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Seach team was doing tsunami searches.  I would think all the papers and shots would have been current because of that.  Its not like that was ten years ago.
Yes Another K but every country is different, just as every state in the US has different laws. Heck, when driving from Ls Vegas back from California, I have to go through a search station for fruit! Because you can not transport plants and fruit into California....


How come you never see that kinda thing in the movies. People just drive 80-90 miles an hour from LV to Cali. and no one is on the road. So glamourous. So fake I guess. How long does that fruit/tree line get?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.
 

HER FRIENDS AND ROOM MATES ON GREAT LAST NIGHT DID NOT USE THE DODGE THAT THEY SLEPT AROUND IN DIFFERENT ROOMS, SAID THEY WERE VERY WORRIED WHEN THEY WOKE UP TO FIND HER NOT THERE AND REPORTED IT TO THE CHAPERONES.


How is that a dodge? It seems like a very legtitimate thing to me.


THE SLEEPING IN ANOTHER ROOM IS A DODGE BECAUSE:  A.  IT WAS USED EARLIER BY A MB STUDENT ON O'REILLY TO RATONALIZE NOT SOUNDING THE ALARM BELL EARLIER ABOUT NATALEE BEING MISSING AND B. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE WAY IT HAPPENED ACCORDING TO NATALEE'S TWO FRIENDS AND ROOM MATES WHO WERE WORRIED WHEN THEY REALIZED SHE DID NOT COME HOME AND REPORTED THIS TO THE TRAVEL FACILITATORS SINCE THEY DID NOT HAVE CHAPERONES ON THE TRIP.  I GUESS THEY NEEDED TO CANCEL NATALEES RESERVATION


Title: Natalee - Will she ever be found??!!!
Post by: ripple20 on June 22, 2005, 02:33:02 PM
What do you guys honestly think? Do you think she wil be found?
The more that time goes by, the more unlikely it will be to recover her.

If Natalee was dumped in the ocean, I can hardly believe there would be much left of her.

These guys aren't budging with the truth. And, it may very well be left a mystery forever.

What do you all think???


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 22, 2005, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: "Red"
They seem to be, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1173
Texas EquuSearch Delayed Until Friday

The officials on Aruba have got to start understanding what the word "perception" mean. Aruban's I understand your many points about unfairness and being blamed but there has to be an image of a sense of urgency.

Completely agree. Right now, I don't see the 'sense of urgency'...I sense an annoyance with the media, with the US, with NH's family...my personal perception.

A perfect example of this, which has been bothering since I heard it, is the PIO (Public Information Officer) refusing to answer a reporter's question about crime statistics in Aruba - that he 'unilaterally' made the decision not to divulge information, and that he would release it when he's good and ready (I'm paraphrasing, repeated twice on the MSM).

For North Americans who are so used to accountability and transparency, this attitude is baffling. I can understand the withholding of information on the investigation prior to charges being filed, but I would love to see the PIO's job description to see if there are any laws that prevent him from releasing the information, or if he's making up the rules as he goes along.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Scarlet on June 22, 2005, 02:33:16 PM
So I am guessing since nobody replied, MSNBC just rehashed old news. I need to get out a blueprint. By the way didn't anybody else think it was odd that Joran's dad told him not to say anything about the case.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 02:34:02 PM
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
I have already said this don't know if anyone seen it, I feel it is very plausible and a lot more realisitc than many of the other proposed scenerios (international kidnapping, drug rings, etc.)

If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap. Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point. I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share. In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink? (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from? Consider this scenerio: IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio. As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know. MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.

Aslo- with the recent reporting of fights between MBHS boys and Joran... leads to further speculation.  Why would MBH boys get into a fight with Joran?  Did they want to "hook up" with Natalee and feel Joran was impeading that?  That is usually the most common reason for such fights; over a girl.

The fact that Joran knew that MBH boys knew who he was ever further confirms why Joran and the brothers would act guilty.  Put yourself in their position.  You take a girl away from a bar, the same girl whose guy friends you got into a fight with, and she mysteriously dies on you on the beach.... Joran and the brothers to realize "hey this is not good we are goign to be the first people they suspect"  
....plus Joran and the boys would almost definetly have 0 knowledge of Natalee being drugged by MBHS boys.... so her death to them is just as big of a mysterious as it is to us... so what do they tell the police?  "UM yea she just went unconcious and died... police do an autopsy and find the cause to be drugs.. who do you think is taking the rap for that???


I am also thinking this same scenerio is what happened.  Until we find out when the scuffle occurred, what it was about and what was going on in C&C before Jorvan and Co arrived we can only speculate.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 02:34:17 PM
I'll try to sum it up very briefly, I did not listen all of it, due that I wanted to post as quick as possible for all of you to listen it yourself.

She was very upset due to some negative reports some american media did and also that lady Deefine (if I am not mistaken) and that she said that if that lady ever went to Aruba, she would come back to Aruba fior sure.

She works in some kind of police work, she said that in america for example they would never canceldthe 4th of july, at the other hand, Aruba had a big summercarnival planned, but canceld the whole thing out of respect for the family Holloway, something that would never happen in the USA. She realy spoke very positive about the local people of Aruba..

More or less, she stood in defence of Aruba and saying a lot of things arubian were allready saying, but maybe because of their being locals, their argumenst were interpreted as being favoured due to their connections to the island. Thats why I am so thankfull to this american lady who knows the island for many years and stood and defend Aruba and said that the many negative things being said of Aruba by certain people in the USA were out of place.

Thats it for now, bye bye

Teo


Title: Re: Inter view with Mrs Ross
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: "Terry"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
American Ross, on the show 95.1 expressing her support of Aruba, and dispelling negative publicity.  Mrs Ross says negative publicity is undeserved.   She point out the govt closing down to assit the search for Nat.  The cancellation of a mini carnaval of Aruba out of respect of Nat.  Why does Aruba deserve this negative feed?  Also a mention of some American Devine about boycotting Aruba is undeserved...had an Arubian been lost in America doubtful if search was done prior to 24hr for missing person...nor forget about closing the govt for a search, blah blah blah..
Okay, ty.


Is she saying that Arubans don't have mothers willing to devote every minute searching for her child, demanding that something be done, while her heart is being broken? Natalee's mother is brave and strong and will not let this get covered up, regardless of tourist dollars or embarrassment of government or police. Now, I'm getting mad.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 02:36:04 PM
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "iquitos"

SINCE WHEN DOES A NORTH-SOUTH TRIP OVER ONE TIME ZONE CAUSE JET LAG?  JET, LAG JET SCHMAG


The issue isn't the number of timezones...it's the actual time involved in travel.  I searched Expedia.com for flights between Birmingham, AL to Aruba and it returned the following flight times, which vary because of different connections.

8 hours 32 minutes
9 hours 23 minutes
9 hours 58 minutes
10 hours 44 minutes
11 hours 18 minutes

Being a frequent flyer in my job, I can vouch that this much time in airports, on planes and waiting in airport security IS very tiring.


Thought I heard it said that it was a charter that they took. 2 planes because so many? Charters that I've taken are direct.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 22, 2005, 02:36:30 PM
Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?!
Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do.

True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.

We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?s=0ae475b09470d0273a7ffeeeb57c18ce&t=2244


now I am really confused! Could this poster have meant 4 or 5 hrs instead of 54



Nope, 54.  That was me.  Natalee was last seen 2:00 a.m. on 5/30.  I didn't post this until Wed. June 1 right before 10:00 cst.  My math is not the best (in fact it's the worst) but that's in the ball park.

I started that thread on the visitAruba board because we couldn't find any info & had been losing our minds over it.  I was hoping to find an email address for a police station in case a PIO could give us any info at all.  The rumors we were hearing were horrible & we had virtually no official means of getting info.  I had never used a message board before & just gave it a shot.  Turns out another MB lady was starting a thread at tripadvisor at almost the same time.  A poster at visitaruba directed me there, & I found this board after someone posted links at one or both.

You'll note in there that we'd heard the suspect was a career criminal & ws unresponsive in interrogation.  This turned out to be VDS, who is not a career criminal and was not being interrogated.  We also had googled the article about the previous month's kidnapping in Aruba.  You'll see a lot of early discussion on that.  That's why I posted yesterday when I got official word that the case was in Aruba, IRAQ.

As an aside:
This serves as an example of how inconsistencies in stories can happen easily, something we've discussed on the boards for a couple of days at least.  And how something you hear from one person and believe and repeat can turn out to have been something else altogether.  It doesn't mean you were lying when you said it.  And it doesn't mean you're suspiciously changing your story when you correct it, having found a more reliable source.


I am sorry, as another poster pointed out earlier, I did not even take into account the date which would make that statement correct. I apologize again. I also commend you on your lovely daughter she is a credit to her parents and her friend, Natalee. Please accept my apology that I did not intend to mistake anything you said. I didn't even realize it was you until a post or 2 above yours.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 02:36:38 PM
I think you guys seem to be forgetting that their are a lot of legitimate reasons why a teenager would stay out all night, and a lot of them have nothing to do with that teenager doing anythig wrong or immoral.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Seach team was doing tsunami searches.  I would think all the papers and shots would have been current because of that.  Its not like that was ten years ago.
Yes Another K but every country is different, just as every state in the US has different laws. Heck, when driving from Ls Vegas back from California, I have to go through a search station for fruit! Because you can not transport plants and fruit into California....


How come you never see that kinda thing in the movies. People just drive 80-90 miles an hour from LV to Cali. and no one is on the road. So glamourous. So fake I guess. How long does that fruit/tree line get?

I make the drive a few times a year.  The Agriculture Station is only on your return to Calif from NV.  The line takes only a couple minutes to get through, no big deal.  Other than that you do drive 80-90 miles an hour.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: littletxlady on June 22, 2005, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: "DT"
I think you guys seem to be forgetting that their are a lot of legitimate reasons why a teenager would stay out all night, and a lot of them have nothing to do with that teenager doing anythig wrong or immoral.

You are sooooo right! Thank you!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:39:01 PM
Quote
Luckily, Natalee's friends from Mtn Brook can probably refute much of what the "e-mail" alleges about events at the casino and at CNC's.


Cept her "closer" friends have actually validated things in the emails.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 02:39:15 PM
One important tidbit in the recent MSNBC report (if it's true) is that Joran has been taken to the prison KIA...they also noted (which I've heard before) that once in the prison interrogation stops...if more questioning is needed Joran will be brought back to a police station for that questioning.

Also, I think I read here or elsewhere that they were sending in two behavorial interrogation specialists from elsewhere to help with the questioning.  Does anyone know if that's true?  Confirmed? Has anyone seen anymore info on this?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One important tidbit in the recent MSNBC report (if it's true) is that Joran has been taken to the prison KIA...they also noted (which I've heard before) that once in the prison interrogation stops...if more questioning is needed Joran will be brought back to a police station for that questioning.

Also, I think I read here or elsewhere that they were sending in two behavorial interrogation specialists from elsewhere to help with the questioning.  Does anyone know if that's true?  Confirmed? Has anyone seen anymore info on this?


I heard this and believe that it has been confirmed.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 22, 2005, 02:40:34 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One important tidbit in the recent MSNBC report (if it's true) is that Joran has been taken to the prison KIA...they also noted (which I've heard before) that once in the prison interrogation stops...if more questioning is needed Joran will be brought back to a police station for that questioning.

Also, I think I read here or elsewhere that they were sending in two behavorial interrogation specialists from elsewhere to help with the questioning.  Does anyone know if that's true?  Confirmed? Has anyone seen anymore info on this?

I've been listening to FOX News (tv in another room) and the above is right, on both counts, according to their reports.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: pybird on June 22, 2005, 02:40:59 PM
I'm about ready to throw the remote control at the TV!  Fox keeps telling us in their teasers that they tell us what the story is that Joren is saying today.  Then when they do the update it's just a repeat of what has been reported for at least the last 24hrs.  Aaaarrrgh

Now, back to catching up.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One important tidbit in the recent MSNBC report (if it's true) is that Joran has been taken to the prison KIA...they also noted (which I've heard before) that once in the prison interrogation stops...if more questioning is needed Joran will be brought back to a police station for that questioning.

Also, I think I read here or elsewhere that they were sending in two behavorial interrogation specialists from elsewhere to help with the questioning.  Does anyone know if that's true?  Confirmed? Has anyone seen anymore info on this?

Only that it was reported on CNN yesterday.  I have not seen it in print yet.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.


I don't recall anywhere the parents or authorities confirming they met earlier!  I'd check that "fact" again.


Well, here's one of the stories I read it in - the Birmingham News dated June 11, 2005.

"Holloway's mother and stepfather said earlier Friday they had uncovered van der Sloot's connection to their daughter within 24 hours of her disappearance by talking to other students who were on the trip. They then found surveillance videotapes showing van der Sloot playing poker with other Mountain Brook teens in their hotel's casino two days before she vanished."

The URL is:  
http://www.al.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml?birminghamnews?nmet&coll=2

I can find others I'm sure.


 SWEET JL


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One important tidbit in the recent MSNBC report (if it's true) is that Joran has been taken to the prison KIA...they also noted (which I've heard before) that once in the prison interrogation stops...if more questioning is needed Joran will be brought back to a police station for that questioning.

Also, I think I read here or elsewhere that they were sending in two behavorial interrogation specialists from elsewhere to help with the questioning.  Does anyone know if that's true?  Confirmed? Has anyone seen anymore info on this?


It was reported on FOX again this morning and that they would be working with Aruban authorities.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:41:40 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Seach team was doing tsunami searches.  I would think all the papers and shots would have been current because of that.  Its not like that was ten years ago.
Yes Another K but every country is different, just as every state in the US has different laws. Heck, when driving from Ls Vegas back from California, I have to go through a search station for fruit! Because you can not transport plants and fruit into California....


How come you never see that kinda thing in the movies. People just drive 80-90 miles an hour from LV to Cali. and no one is on the road. So glamourous. So fake I guess. How long does that fruit/tree line get?

lol it's not a huge deal but California does it at it's outside borders because our fruit crops have been devestated due to fruit flies for at least a decade. Since doing that, it has been greatly reduced.

Not too much of a back up, but they do stop you, do a visual and ask you if you have any fruit or plants you are carrying from out of state.

Just a little tid but I thought I would share.  :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:41:44 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote
Luckily, Natalee's friends from Mtn Brook can probably refute much of what the "e-mail" alleges about events at the casino and at CNC's.


Cept her "closer" friends have actually validated things in the emails.
 

Yeah, but those same "closer" friends also say nat only met Joran the last night when the two on O'Reilly said they had both seen her w/ Joran 2 days earlier, maybe they don't really know all that went down


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:41:46 PM
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


Title: Re: Natalee - Will she ever be found??!!!
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:42:39 PM
Quote from: "ripple20"
What do you guys honestly think? Do you think she wil be found?
The more that time goes by, the more unlikely it will be to recover her.

If Natalee was dumped in the ocean, I can hardly believe there would be much left of her.

These guys aren't budging with the truth. And, it may very well be left a mystery forever.

What do you all think???
 

Part of me thinks she is alive somewhere..part of me thinks she is gone..and I dont like to think negatively. I have friends who have frequented aruba alot.. we have discussed this in the last few days.. IF someone wanted to dispose of a body.. it would be part of the island where the sharks are fed... I am NOT being rude by all means.. Friends of mine told me they went on a boat tour....they went to see the sharks being fed while on the boat.. and they have said if that would be the case.. no body would ever be found. I HOPE that isnt the case.. One of my friend is a detective that I have known for years and years.. he woudl like to think positive as well.. but came to the conclusion.. as we all have been doing.. different scenarios.. another being she isnt even on the island itself anymore and kidnapped. I guess we will hopefully find out the truth and soon.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Red on June 22, 2005, 02:42:41 PM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Red"
They seem to be, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1173
Texas EquuSearch Delayed Until Friday

The officials on Aruba have got to start understanding what the word "perception" mean. Aruban's I understand your many points about unfairness and being blamed but there has to be an image of a sense of urgency.

Completely agree. Right now, I don't see the 'sense of urgency'...I sense an annoyance with the media, with the US, with NH's family...my personal perception.

A perfect example of this, which has been bothering since I heard it, is the PIO (Public Information Officer) refusing to answer a reporter's question about crime statistics in Aruba - that he 'unilaterally' made the decision not to divulge information, and that he would release it when he's good and ready (I'm paraphrasing, repeated twice on the MSM).

For North Americans who are so used to accountability and transparency, this attitude is baffling. I can understand the withholding of information on the investigation prior to charges being filed, but I would love to see the PIO's job description to see if there are any laws that prevent him from releasing the information, or if he's making up the rules as he goes along.


Believe you me, I am not for boycotting or anything like that as some of these American radio DJ's like "Dee-Ranged" want to do for their own ratings. I would, however, like the authorities to move.

Maybe one of our Aruban or Dutch readers can comment on this. I heard this morning from the Aruban prosecutors office spokesperson, Mariane Croes, that Aruban police must be the ones who seize the evidence and not the FBI in order for it to be legal? FBI was only advising Is this true?

If that is the case what if the Texas EquuSearch find something? Would that not be permissible in an Aruban Court of Law?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:43:19 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 02:43:31 PM
Quote
Is she saying that Arubans don't have mothers willing to devote every minute searching for her child, demanding that something be done, while her heart is being broken? Natalee's mother is brave and strong and will not let this get covered up, regardless of tourist dollars or embarrassment of government or police. Now, I'm getting mad.


Maybe I am mistaken, but it seems that your person has a fixed mind about this whole thing.

Something very beautiful said by this american lady and now being twisted in something negative.

A dissapointed Teo


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:44:24 PM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Red"
They seem to be, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1173
Texas EquuSearch Delayed Until Friday

The officials on Aruba have got to start understanding what the word "perception" mean. Aruban's I understand your many points about unfairness and being blamed but there has to be an image of a sense of urgency.

Completely agree. Right now, I don't see the 'sense of urgency'...I sense an annoyance with the media, with the US, with NH's family...my personal perception.

A perfect example of this, which has been bothering since I heard it, is the PIO (Public Information Officer) refusing to answer a reporter's question about crime statistics in Aruba - that he 'unilaterally' made the decision not to divulge information, and that he would release it when he's good and ready (I'm paraphrasing, repeated twice on the MSM).

For North Americans who are so used to accountability and transparency, this attitude is baffling. I can understand the withholding of information on the investigation prior to charges being filed, but I would love to see the PIO's job description to see if there are any laws that prevent him from releasing the information, or if he's making up the rules as he goes along.


Believe you me, I am not for boycotting or anything like that as some of these American radio DJ's like "Dee-Ranged" want to do for their own ratings. I would, however, like the authorities to move.

Maybe one of our Aruban or Dutch readers can comment on this. I heard this morning from the Aruban prosecutors office spokesperson, Mariane Croes, that Aruban police must be the ones who seize the evidence and not the FBI in order for it to be legal? FBI was only advising Is this true?

If that is the case what if the Texas EquuSearch find something? Would that not be permissible in an Aruban Court of Law?



VERY GOOD QUESTION, RED..I was wondering the same thing..can anyone elaborate?


Title: Re: Natalee - Will she ever be found??!!!
Post by: luna on June 22, 2005, 02:44:31 PM
Quote from: "ripple20"
What do you guys honestly think? Do you think she wil be found?
The more that time goes by, the more unlikely it will be to recover her.

If Natalee was dumped in the ocean, I can hardly believe there would be much left of her.

These guys aren't budging with the truth. And, it may very well be left a mystery forever.

What do you all think???


ripple.....the more time goes by, I'm starting to agree.

I'm not sure I believe that the three boys (and Croes) *know* what happened to her.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:45:29 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:45:47 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One important tidbit in the recent MSNBC report (if it's true) is that Joran has been taken to the prison KIA...they also noted (which I've heard before) that once in the prison interrogation stops...if more questioning is needed Joran will be brought back to a police station for that questioning.

Also, I think I read here or elsewhere that they were sending in two behavorial interrogation specialists from elsewhere to help with the questioning.  Does anyone know if that's true?  Confirmed? Has anyone seen anymore info on this?


 I also heard that on tv earlier as well and I THINK they said they specialist would be sent in form the US


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


My point exactly Cali and Karin..Im not blaming her roomates or anything like that.. I know what we did on our senior class trip.. close friends knew if we wernt going to be in our room that night..You know how girls like to tell one another everything... I guess it made me think back to my trip which was years ago. 1983 exact.. Just made me wonder if her friends may know of other evenings she may have not come back to the hotel and thought nothing of her bag being packed on the bed.. figuring perhaps shes been on all night before one of the days..?? Confusing as hell!


Reading too much into this, folks.  My daughter is about as level-headed as they come, smart as a whip, not always so organized but has herself together.  (OK, that's a mom talking, but I am pretty objective.)  She (Dash) tells me that Natalee is MORE so.  She looks up to Natalee.  She admires her.  Natalee has earned her accolades, believe me.  And the fact that her bags were neatly packed and ready to go the night before *does* say something about her routine, her level of responsibility even on a vacation.  I've seen photos of my daughter's hotel room.  Oof.  For a girl as responsible as Dash is, her own bags looked like they'd exploded.  What I'm saying is that in so many ways, Natalee is above and beyond.  It's part of why what happened is so confounding.

As for the packed bags & no Natalee raising a red flag to the roommates -- well apparently it did.  As soon as they realized something was wrong -- and we *cannot* speculate as to when that was or why that was or why it didn't happen sooner -- they said they immediately began working with the chaperones on the situation.  At this point, I think the particulars of that are not for any of us to know.

But going back to this example of the how/where/why's of a responsible, level-headed girl's behavior on this trip:  Dash (who fits that description nicely) was by the pool with 10-20 friends until 5 a.m.  Some of those friends came & went during that time.  Some of them included one of Natalee's roommates for at least part of the time.  Dash was with a group, she knew she was safe, & that was good enough for her.  She didn't bother to check in with anyone, close friends or roommates included.  And it was good enough for Dash's roommates as well, evidently.  When she got back to her room, it was empty.  And she wasn't worried at all.  Is it a great mystery where any of these roommates were, Dash included?  Does it cast doubt on any of the 3 girls that they didn't inform each other of whereabouts?  Nope.  Typical teen behavior on a trip.  Not saying that's *good,* but it's typical, & especially for the kids on this trip, going by individual reports.  Not all girls check in & confide the way it's assumed here.

Another thought:  Natalee was with some of her best friends on this trip, but maybe not *all* of her best friends went.  Maybe her *best* best friend wasn't there.  Dash's wasn't.  So maybe *the* girl she confides in wasn't available & she kept her feelings somewhat to herself.  I don't know -- I'm just throwing that out.

Since their return, not all of the 150 or so kids are in direct phone contact with each other.  You couldn't expect them to be.  And most haven't considered calling Natalee's very best friends.  Through the grapevine we've heard they've been in a terrible state for these weeks.   So no one would have been able to -- or wanted to -- intrude on them with questions as to Natalee's whereabouts 24 hours a day for the entire trip.  As I've said before, who but the roommates even know if the *roommates* stayed in their same room every night?  Them and the FBI, I should say.  Yes, almost if not all the students have been individually question by this time.

I've been following this board for several days but never saw your questions before.  How many posts on each page?  How many pages per thread?  How many threads in succession?  If I or Dash or MBHS05 or others had seen the queries, we'd have answered best we could, but we still wouldn't likely know *the* answer.  Just because a post isn't answered doesn't mean the question was dodged.  Odds are that it just wasn't seen.  (A fact in my case.)

We all have been assuming facts not in evidence, on everything.  Which of you said you're realizing that all we really know is that Natalee is missing?  You are EXACTLY RIGHT, frustrating as it is.   :-(


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:47:33 PM
Oh, BTW, FYI, and all that jazz..for anyone interested and anyone who was on about 12;30 this a.m., i went to the MD...no cancer..no benign tumors..nothing..nada...zilch..and zippo!!!!!!!


Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming......


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 02:48:26 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!




Girl, if you hear back, YOU HAD BETTER TELL US...lolol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:49:37 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Oh, BTW, FYI, and all that jazz..for anyone interested and anyone who was on about 12;30 this a.m., i went to the MD...no cancer..no benign tumors..nothing..nada...zilch..and zippo!!!!!!!


Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming......



:claps: See, I told you , it works!!!  :D  So happy for you,
my best friend is facing the same tests :(


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "absolut"

The friends were pretty clear last night, and stated that they were setting the record straight of the how and when Natalee met VDS.


I think perhaps the friends last night were setting the record straight AS THEY KNEW IT.  I believe the apparent contradiction is probably due to them not being aware that Natalee and JVDS met earlier.  Natalee's parents have clearly said and Aruban LE officials have been quoted as saying that Natalee met Joran two days before she disappeared.


I don't recall anywhere the parents or authorities confirming they met earlier!  I'd check that "fact" again.


Well, here's one of the stories I read it in - the Birmingham News dated June 11, 2005.

"Holloway's mother and stepfather said earlier Friday they had uncovered van der Sloot's connection to their daughter within 24 hours of her disappearance by talking to other students who were on the trip. They then found surveillance videotapes showing van der Sloot playing poker with other Mountain Brook teens in their hotel's casino two days before she vanished."

The URL is:  
http://www.al.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml?birminghamnews?nmet&coll=2

I can find others I'm sure.[/quote]

In the first? interview Greta had with BH on June 16th, BH said:

"HOLLOWAY: Through some of her classmates. And this young man had spent time with these children. He had been with them for a couple of days. They knew this young man. They knew his first name. They had spent hours with him. So it wasn't a secret. It wasn't a secret who she left with."


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: heavyheart on June 22, 2005, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
I have already said this don't know if anyone seen it, I feel it is very plausible and a lot more realisitc than many of the other proposed scenerios (international kidnapping, drug rings, etc.)

If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap. Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point. I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share. In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink? (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from? Consider this scenerio: IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio. As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know. MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.

Aslo- with the recent reporting of fights between MBHS boys and Joran... leads to further speculation.  Why would MBH boys get into a fight with Joran?  Did they want to "hook up" with Natalee and feel Joran was impeading that?  That is usually the most common reason for such fights; over a girl.

The fact that Joran knew that MBH boys knew who he was ever further confirms why Joran and the brothers would act guilty.  Put yourself in their position.  You take a girl away from a bar, the same girl whose guy friends you got into a fight with, and she mysteriously dies on you on the beach.... Joran and the brothers to realize "hey this is not good we are goign to be the first people they suspect"  
....plus Joran and the boys would almost definetly have 0 knowledge of Natalee being drugged by MBHS boys.... so her death to them is just as big of a mysterious as it is to us... so what do they tell the police?  "UM yea she just went unconcious and died... police do an autopsy and find the cause to be drugs.. who do you think is taking the rap for that???


I am also thinking this same scenerio is what happened.  Until we find out when the scuffle occurred, what it was about and what was going on in C&C before Jorvan and Co arrived we can only speculate.


I don't think that fits.  Someone that is behaving innocently would have called an ambulance/police immediately, not think up a scenario and dispose of a body.  Doesn't fit the rational train of thought.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:50:20 PM
Thank you Dash's Mom!  :D

Glad you understand we are not bashing or blaming. Just confused.

You have raised a wonderful daughter BTW. Sorry off topic but she really is.  :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nisxan on June 22, 2005, 02:50:32 PM
Teo, I am listening to TOP 95 and would like to make a couple of comments:

1. I really hope the people in Aruba think this Dee Fine woman speaks for all of us. I live in Birmingham and had NEVER heard of her until she started her own personal campaign against Aruba. I do NOT agree with her, and I would say the vast majority of us don't. I really wish they would quit giving her any air time so maybe she'll just shut up.

2. Is there any way to communicate to the DJ's at TOP 95 that neither NH's father or stepfather have ANYTHING to do with the U.S. government? That seems like a pretty simple thing to verify and clear up. In a case with so many question marks, any absolutes would be a welcome change.

Just my 2¢


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!




Girl, if you hear back, YOU HAD BETTER TELL US...lolol


I will, and I'll copy the headers and all that for all the doubters... LOL


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: RB on June 22, 2005, 02:51:07 PM
Diva, the first place they'll go is to the authorities to see if they have anything like it.  If they do, you won't hear a thing.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Oh, BTW, FYI, and all that jazz..for anyone interested and anyone who was on about 12;30 this a.m., i went to the MD...no cancer..no benign tumors..nothing..nada...zilch..and zippo!!!!!!!


Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming......

I was...and Excellent news!!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CancunMole on June 22, 2005, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
You guys are blaming Aruba for their laws on not letting the dogs arrive there before proper proceedure is done? Heck, this is done in EVERY single country. And it's just the way it is.


Hawaii has a 6 month quarantine even coming from the mainland US.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:51:58 PM
Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


My point exactly Cali and Karin..Im not blaming her roomates or anything like that.. I know what we did on our senior class trip.. close friends knew if we wernt going to be in our room that night..You know how girls like to tell one another everything... I guess it made me think back to my trip which was years ago. 1983 exact.. Just made me wonder if her friends may know of other evenings she may have not come back to the hotel and thought nothing of her bag being packed on the bed.. figuring perhaps shes been on all night before one of the days..?? Confusing as hell!


Reading too much into this, folks.  My daughter is about as level-headed as they come, smart as a whip, not always so organized but has herself together.  (OK, that's a mom talking, but I am pretty objective.)  She (Dash) tells me that Natalee is MORE so.  She looks up to Natalee.  She admires her.  Natalee has earned her accolades, believe me.  And the fact that her bags were neatly packed and ready to go the night before *does* say something about her routine, her level of responsibility even on a vacation.  I've seen photos of my daughter's hotel room.  Oof.  For a girl as responsible as Dash is, her own bags looked like they'd exploded.  What I'm saying is that in so many ways, Natalee is above and beyond.  It's part of why what happened is so confounding.

As for the packed bags & no Natalee raising a red flag to the roommates -- well apparently it did.  As soon as they realized something was wrong -- and we *cannot* speculate as to when that was or why that was or why it didn't happen sooner -- they said they immediately began working with the chaperones on the situation.  At this point, I think the particulars of that are not for any of us to know.

But going back to this example of the how/where/why's of a responsible, level-headed girl's behavior on this trip:  Dash (who fits that description nicely) was by the pool with 10-20 friends until 5 a.m.  Some of those friends came & went during that time.  Some of them included one of Natalee's roommates for at least part of the time.  Dash was with a group, she knew she was safe, & that was good enough for her.  She didn't bother to check in with anyone, close friends or roommates included.  And it was good enough for Dash's roommates as well, evidently.  When she got back to her room, it was empty.  And she wasn't worried at all.  Is it a great mystery where any of these roommates were, Dash included?  Does it cast doubt on any of the 3 girls that they didn't inform each other of whereabouts?  Nope.  Typical teen behavior on a trip.  Not saying that's *good,* but it's typical, & especially for the kids on this trip, going by individual reports.  Not all girls check in & confide the way it's assumed here.

Another thought:  Natalee was with some of her best friends on this trip, but maybe not *all* of her best friends went.  Maybe her *best* best friend wasn't there.  Dash's wasn't.  So maybe *the* girl she confides in wasn't available & she kept her feelings somewhat to herself.  I don't know -- I'm just throwing that out.

Since their return, not all of the 150 or so kids are in direct phone contact with each other.  You couldn't expect them to be.  And most haven't considered calling Natalee's very best friends.  Through the grapevine we've heard they've been in a terrible state for these weeks.   So no one would have been able to -- or wanted to -- intrude on them with questions as to Natalee's whereabouts 24 hours a day for the entire trip.  As I've said before, who but the roommates even know if the *roommates* stayed in their same room every night?  Them and the FBI, I should say.  Yes, almost if not all the students have been individually question by this time.

I've been following this board for several days but never saw your questions before.  How many posts on each page?  How many pages per thread?  How many threads in succession?  If I or Dash or MBHS05 or others had seen the queries, we'd have answered best we could, but we still wouldn't likely know *the* answer.  Just because a post isn't answered doesn't mean the question was dodged.  Odds are that it just wasn't seen.  (A fact in my case.)

We all have been assuming facts not in evidence, on everything.  Which of you said you're realizing that all we really know is that Natalee is missing?  You are EXACTLY RIGHT, frustrating as it is.   :-(



Thank you very much for your post!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: luna on June 22, 2005, 02:52:08 PM
One other thing before I have to run....no one has mentioned accidental alcohol poisoning for Natalee.

There have been lots more stories in the past year or so about sororities or fraternities and alcohol overdoses.  Plus, you hear a lot about students turning 21 and dying on their birthday cus they really aren't aware about the dangers of alcohol.

It is possible that Natalee became uncounscious when they were driving and they did leave her on the beach, rather than take her to the hospital.... stranger things have happened.  They may have thought she passed out and would wake up.

Just sayin it's possible.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: RB on June 22, 2005, 02:52:24 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
You guys are blaming Aruba for their laws on not letting the dogs arrive there before proper proceedure is done? Heck, this is done in EVERY single country. And it's just the way it is.


Hawaii has a 6 month quarantine even coming from the mainland US.


Yep, and for military TDY's that sucks.


Title: A MOTHERS TALE?
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 02:53:12 PM
THESE WERE ON THE SAME ARUBA MESSAGE BOARD LINK POSTED EARLIER TODAY.  THEY APPEAR TO BE POSTED BY A PARENT WITH A CHILD ON THE TRIP AND PROVIDE NICE INSIGHT.  I DID NOT FABRICATE THEM  NAMES REMOVED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT, IF APPLICABLE
HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS BEFORE?  

Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 08:51 AM
AXXXXX Member Join Date: May 31st, 2005Posts: 57

Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?! Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do. True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.Thank you for your thoughts.


Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 10:20 AM
AXXXEEJ Member Join Date: May 31st, 2005Posts: 57

Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?! From what I've heard about the trip, there were excursions to all the bars. The legal drinking age is 18, and these were kids that graduated the day before. We knew there would be drinking. The hotel package was all-inclusive -- all you can eat, all you can drink. That last fact was not something I knew. I had told my daughter not to leave the hotel compound unless on a chaperoned tour/activity. But kids often have a false sense of safety -- especially when they've been told they ARE safe -- and after a few drinks I'm sure they wouldn't exercise the best of judgement. This girl was last seen waving to her friends from a taxi en route to the hotel (the others were walking). They had all exited the bar more or less in a group.Please keep a tight rein on those kids, especially the girls. I can't figure out how so many people I've talked to recently somehow knew there was a "huge problem" of this sort in Aruba. The only "news" I've found via internet reads like a tourism brochure. Thank you all for your kind thoughts and suggestions. I will post when we find out something. It is agonizing to wait and not know anything...

Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 03:11 PM
AXXXXX Member Join Date: May 31st, 2005Posts: 57

Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?! Elaine,That is the part that is confusing to me, too. The newspaper report is different from what I heard from my daughter.My daughter ACTUALLY WITNESSED Natalee right outside the entrance to Carlos & Charlie's at around 1:00 a.m. Monday morning. (The paper says she left at 1:30.) My daughter was leaving the bar with two friends, and they were right behind another group. She called to Natalee and asked if she wanted to walk with them (I forget now if my daughter was headed to the hotel or the bar across the street; I think the latter). Natalee cheerfully said no, she would catch up to the group right ahead and walk with them (implying she would be along in a few moments). My daughter had no idea she would not see Natalee again.This part my daughter didn't see, but was told by her friends: That Natalie passed them on the road a short while later, and that she was a passenger in a taxi with another person. She clearly did not know she was in danger; she leaned out the window and shouted something like "Aruba!!! WOOHOO!" Still having a wonderful time. I have read and heard other versions since then -- that she was actually seen getting in a car with three men; that she was alone with the guy in his car; that it was a grey car; that it has been impounded by the police. I don't know which is the accurate account.The kids she passed assumed she was headed back to the hotel complex. No one thought there was any danger; obviously Natalee did not think so either.That's the only bit I know was witnessed by my daughter or her other friends. But it is agreed that the guy misrepresented himself, and that she got in willingly. Also, I assume everyone in the bar had been drinking, but none of those who passed Natalee had the impression that Natalee was falling-down-drunk or anything like that. I mean to say, probably she had been drinking and wasn't exercising good judgement, but she wasn't bad off enough to cause concern, or someone with the group would have taken her back to the hotel. There were chaperones there, the kids were of legal drinking age, and no one realized there was any danger.I'll post if I hear any more news, and now that the media is covering this, I'll very much appreciate reading anything that you guys find out.Thanks, all!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Thank you Dash's Mom!  :D

Glad you understand we are not bashing or blaming. Just confused.

You have raised a wonderful daughter BTW. Sorry off topic but she really is.  :wink:


I wouldn't *begin* to.  You folks don't know how helpful you have been.   :!:

(And thank you)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Red on June 22, 2005, 02:54:12 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!




Girl, if you hear back, YOU HAD BETTER TELL US...lolol


Hope they do get back to you.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
I do not mean to laugh, but some how I get the feeling if the email gets talked about by Greta we will be seeing it tonight on Fox with no reference of where it came from or attribution. Call it a hunch. I would like to think not, but its a hunch.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:55:13 PM
Quote from: "luna"
One other thing before I have to run....no one has mentioned accidental alcohol poisoning for Natalee.

There have been lots more stories in the past year or so about sororities or fraternities and alcohol overdoses.  Plus, you hear a lot about students turning 21 and dying on their birthday cus they really aren't aware about the dangers of alcohol.

It is possible that Natalee became uncounscious when they were driving and they did leave her on the beach, rather than take her to the hospital.... stranger things have happened.  They may have thought she passed out and would wake up.

Just sayin it's possible.


But as was asked last night how would she hide her own body?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Diva, the first place they'll go is to the authorities to see if they have anything like it.  If they do, you won't hear a thing.


I Know, I really don't expect to hear anything back, if it gets investigated (hopefully it will) But IF I do, you all will hear it/ see it first


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: chloe2 on June 22, 2005, 02:56:36 PM
Poking my head in only for a moment --

Nat's on the front page of America's Most Wanted:

http://amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=32411


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:56:59 PM
If anyone is interested, I have been *throwing* around the idea of posting the complete factual things we know etc on a website.

Anyone think that woul dbe helpful so everyone doesn't have to go searching? lol I live in here practically, along with others, maybe it might be helpful to have simple facts we know? Yes no maybe so? lol Trying to be helpful  :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 02:57:12 PM
Quote from: "luna"
One other thing before I have to run....no one has mentioned accidental alcohol poisoning for Natalee.

There have been lots more stories in the past year or so about sororities or fraternities and alcohol overdoses.  Plus, you hear a lot about students turning 21 and dying on their birthday cus they really aren't aware about the dangers of alcohol.

It is possible that Natalee became uncounscious when they were driving and they did leave her on the beach, rather than take her to the hospital.... stranger things have happened.  They may have thought she passed out and would wake up.

Just sayin it's possible.


The problem with this theory is that if it were true, none of the suspects would have a reason to fabricate other stories.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: "chloe2"
Poking my head in only for a moment --

Nat's on the front page of America's Most Wanted:

http://amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=32411


Be prepared for an onslaught of new posters here.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 02:57:47 PM
Quote from: "chloe2"
Poking my head in only for a moment --

Nat's on the front page of America's Most Wanted:

http://amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=32411
I would LOVE to see John Walsh in Aruba!!!!!

I love that man!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jpepling on June 22, 2005, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: "nisxan"
2. Is there any way to communicate to the DJ's at TOP 95 that neither NH's father or stepfather have ANYTHING to do with the U.S. government? That seems like a pretty simple thing to verify and clear up. In a case with so many question marks, any absolutes would be a welcome change.


Top 95's website is: http://www.top95fm.aw/

All types of contact info there including phone numbers, e-mail, and MSN Chat.


Title: Re: A MOTHERS TALE?
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2005, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
THESE WERE ON THE SAME ARUBA MESSAGE BOARD LINK POSTED EARLIER TODAY.  THEY APPEAR TO BE POSTED BY A PARENT WITH A CHILD ON THE TRIP AND PROVIDE NICE INSIGHT.  I DID NOT FABRICATE THEM  NAMES REMOVED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT, IF APPLICABLE
HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS BEFORE?  

Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 08:51 AM
AXXXXX Member Join Date: May 31st, 2005Posts: 57

Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?! Thank you both for the information! You're right, they're not likely to tell me anything, but I don't know what else to do. Our city paper finally published the story but with less details than we already know. The rumors are pretty awful. The girl was last seen about 54 hours ago, outside of Carlos and Charlies. Thank you for your prayers. Praying is likely the best we can do. True, this can happen anywhere, but it seems somehow the kids would use more caution elsewhere. The kids were made to feel it was a completely safe environment, even to walk around while drinking. This girl had no idea she was in danger until it was too late. And we parents back home were assured it was safe.We are still stunned, grieving, trying to be hopeful.Thank you for your thoughts.


Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 10:20 AM
AXXXEEJ Member Join Date: May 31st, 2005Posts: 57

Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?! From what I've heard about the trip, there were excursions to all the bars. The legal drinking age is 18, and these were kids that graduated the day before. We knew there would be drinking. The hotel package was all-inclusive -- all you can eat, all you can drink. That last fact was not something I knew. I had told my daughter not to leave the hotel compound unless on a chaperoned tour/activity. But kids often have a false sense of safety -- especially when they've been told they ARE safe -- and after a few drinks I'm sure they wouldn't exercise the best of judgement. This girl was last seen waving to her friends from a taxi en route to the hotel (the others were walking). They had all exited the bar more or less in a group.Please keep a tight rein on those kids, especially the girls. I can't figure out how so many people I've talked to recently somehow knew there was a "huge problem" of this sort in Aruba. The only "news" I've found via internet reads like a tourism brochure. Thank you all for your kind thoughts and suggestions. I will post when we find out something. It is agonizing to wait and not know anything...

Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 03:11 PM
AXXXXX Member Join Date: May 31st, 2005Posts: 57

Re: HELP - POLICE?! how to contact?! Elaine,That is the part that is confusing to me, too. The newspaper report is different from what I heard from my daughter.My daughter ACTUALLY WITNESSED Natalee right outside the entrance to Carlos & Charlie's at around 1:00 a.m. Monday morning. (The paper says she left at 1:30.) My daughter was leaving the bar with two friends, and they were right behind another group. She called to Natalee and asked if she wanted to walk with them (I forget now if my daughter was headed to the hotel or the bar across the street; I think the latter). Natalee cheerfully said no, she would catch up to the group right ahead and walk with them (implying she would be along in a few moments). My daughter had no idea she would not see Natalee again.This part my daughter didn't see, but was told by her friends: That Natalie passed them on the road a short while later, and that she was a passenger in a taxi with another person. She clearly did not know she was in danger; she leaned out the window and shouted something like "Aruba!!! WOOHOO!" Still having a wonderful time. I have read and heard other versions since then -- that she was actually seen getting in a car with three men; that she was alone with the guy in his car; that it was a grey car; that it has been impounded by the police. I don't know which is the accurate account.The kids she passed assumed she was headed back to the hotel complex. No one thought there was any danger; obviously Natalee did not think so either.That's the only bit I know was witnessed by my daughter or her other friends. But it is agreed that the guy misrepresented himself, and that she got in willingly. Also, I assume everyone in the bar had been drinking, but none of those who passed Natalee had the impression that Natalee was falling-down-drunk or anything like that. I mean to say, probably she had been drinking and wasn't exercising good judgement, but she wasn't bad off enough to cause concern, or someone with the group would have taken her back to the hotel. There were chaperones there, the kids were of legal drinking age, and no one realized there was any danger.I'll post if I hear any more news, and now that the media is covering this, I'll very much appreciate reading anything that you guys find out.Thanks, all!

Seen them all before!  They were all written by Arlee.  If you have a question regarding these posts, why don't you ask her?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!




Girl, if you hear back, YOU HAD BETTER TELL US...lolol


Hope they do get back to you.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
I do not mean to laugh, but some how I get the feeling if the email gets talked about by Greta we will be seeing it tonight on Fox with no reference of where it came from or attribution. Call it a hunch. I would like to think not, but its a hunch.


Hey!!! I want my shout-out!! NO no J/K  :lol:
I thought the same & will be watching...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 02:58:49 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
If anyone is interested, I have been *throwing* around the idea of posting the complete factual things we know etc on a website.

Anyone think that woul dbe helpful so everyone doesn't have to go searching? lol I live in here practically, along with others, maybe it might be helpful to have simple facts we know? Yes no maybe so? lol Trying to be helpful  :wink:


Yes, but.....how to agree on the facts.

I can host it if needed.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 02:59:41 PM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
I have already said this don't know if anyone seen it, I feel it is very plausible and a lot more realisitc than many of the other proposed scenerios (international kidnapping, drug rings, etc.)

If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap. Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point. I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share. In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink? (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from? Consider this scenerio: IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio. As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know. MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.

Aslo- with the recent reporting of fights between MBHS boys and Joran... leads to further speculation.  Why would MBH boys get into a fight with Joran?  Did they want to "hook up" with Natalee and feel Joran was impeading that?  That is usually the most common reason for such fights; over a girl.

The fact that Joran knew that MBH boys knew who he was ever further confirms why Joran and the brothers would act guilty.  Put yourself in their position.  You take a girl away from a bar, the same girl whose guy friends you got into a fight with, and she mysteriously dies on you on the beach.... Joran and the brothers to realize "hey this is not good we are goign to be the first people they suspect"  
....plus Joran and the boys would almost definetly have 0 knowledge of Natalee being drugged by MBHS boys.... so her death to them is just as big of a mysterious as it is to us... so what do they tell the police?  "UM yea she just went unconcious and died... police do an autopsy and find the cause to be drugs.. who do you think is taking the rap for that???


I am also thinking this same scenerio is what happened.  Until we find out when the scuffle occurred, what it was about and what was going on in C&C before Jorvan and Co arrived we can only speculate.


I don't think that fits.  Someone that is behaving innocently would have called an ambulance/police immediately, not think up a scenario and dispose of a body.  Doesn't fit the rational train of thought.


adult rational thought or teenage rational thought?  They may have also left her on the beach as one of the rumoured various stories.  I just think we won't have a complete picture of the truth until we know what happened at the bar before Joran arrived.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 22, 2005, 02:59:50 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Poking my head in only for a moment --

Nat's on the front page of America's Most Wanted:

http://amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=32411
I would LOVE to see John Walsh in Aruba!!!!!

I love that man!


I agree with you Cali.. hes awesome.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!


Nikki, sorry I  am behind.  :? Actually yes, I sent it to the Houston Chronicle since Natalee's uncle lives here and they are following the story closely (wanted to have it go to one local). Then I sent it to ABC and sent a copy specifically to The View (hoping selfishly they would use it in HOT TOPICS today since Bo Bice was there as co-host and would maybe "say my name") LOL. I am an ABC viewer so that's all I sent it to. FOX is making me mad  :evil: lately so I didn't bother...figured someone else would. Plus I do like CNN but I think someone in here works for them so I left that alone. OH...and I also printed it and added it to the board and cross-referenced the supposed facts.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: luna on June 22, 2005, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
If anyone is interested, I have been *throwing* around the idea of posting the complete factual things we know etc on a website.

Anyone think that woul dbe helpful so everyone doesn't have to go searching? lol I live in here practically, along with others, maybe it might be helpful to have simple facts we know? Yes no maybe so? lol Trying to be helpful  :wink:


ArubaGirl I think that would be great!  Have thought of the same thing, but no time.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 22, 2005, 03:02:27 PM
Quote from: "chloe2"
Poking my head in only for a moment --

Nat's on the front page of America's Most Wanted:

http://amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=32411


Interesting...I don't recall seeing this factoid anywhere before:
According to Natalee's stepmother, Robin Holloway, friends say Natalee was last seen with a local resident who claimed to be a foreign exchange student (AP).


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 03:02:33 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


My point exactly Cali and Karin..Im not blaming her roomates or anything like that.. I know what we did on our senior class trip.. close friends knew if we wernt going to be in our room that night..You know how girls like to tell one another everything... I guess it made me think back to my trip which was years ago. 1983 exact.. Just made me wonder if her friends may know of other evenings she may have not come back to the hotel and thought nothing of her bag being packed on the bed.. figuring perhaps shes been on all night before one of the days..?? Confusing as hell!


Reading too much into this, folks.  My daughter is about as level-headed as they come, smart as a whip, not always so organized but has herself together.  (OK, that's a mom talking, but I am pretty objective.)  She (Dash) tells me that Natalee is MORE so.  She looks up to Natalee.  She admires her.  Natalee has earned her accolades, believe me.  And the fact that her bags were neatly packed and ready to go the night before *does* say something about her routine, her level of responsibility even on a vacation.  I've seen photos of my daughter's hotel room.  Oof.  For a girl as responsible as Dash is, her own bags looked like they'd exploded.  What I'm saying is that in so many ways, Natalee is above and beyond.  It's part of why what happened is so confounding.

As for the packed bags & no Natalee raising a red flag to the roommates -- well apparently it did.  As soon as they realized something was wrong -- and we *cannot* speculate as to when that was or why that was or why it didn't happen sooner -- they said they immediately began working with the chaperones on the situation.  At this point, I think the particulars of that are not for any of us to know.

But going back to this example of the how/where/why's of a responsible, level-headed girl's behavior on this trip:  Dash (who fits that description nicely) was by the pool with 10-20 friends until 5 a.m.  Some of those friends came & went during that time.  Some of them included one of Natalee's roommates for at least part of the time.  Dash was with a group, she knew she was safe, & that was good enough for her.  She didn't bother to check in with anyone, close friends or roommates included.  And it was good enough for Dash's roommates as well, evidently.  When she got back to her room, it was empty.  And she wasn't worried at all.  Is it a great mystery where any of these roommates were, Dash included?  Does it cast doubt on any of the 3 girls that they didn't inform each other of whereabouts?  Nope.  Typical teen behavior on a trip.  Not saying that's *good,* but it's typical, & especially for the kids on this trip, going by individual reports.  Not all girls check in & confide the way it's assumed here.

Another thought:  Natalee was with some of her best friends on this trip, but maybe not *all* of her best friends went.  Maybe her *best* best friend wasn't there.  Dash's wasn't.  So maybe *the* girl she confides in wasn't available & she kept her feelings somewhat to herself.  I don't know -- I'm just throwing that out.

Since their return, not all of the 150 or so kids are in direct phone contact with each other.  You couldn't expect them to be.  And most haven't considered calling Natalee's very best friends.  Through the grapevine we've heard they've been in a terrible state for these weeks.   So no one would have been able to -- or wanted to -- intrude on them with questions as to Natalee's whereabouts 24 hours a day for the entire trip.  As I've said before, who but the roommates even know if the *roommates* stayed in their same room every night?  Them and the FBI, I should say.  Yes, almost if not all the students have been individually question by this time.

I've been following this board for several days but never saw your questions before.  How many posts on each page?  How many pages per thread?  How many threads in succession?  If I or Dash or MBHS05 or others had seen the queries, we'd have answered best we could, but we still wouldn't likely know *the* answer.  Just because a post isn't answered doesn't mean the question was dodged.  Odds are that it just wasn't seen.  (A fact in my case.)

We all have been assuming facts not in evidence, on everything.  Which of you said you're realizing that all we really know is that Natalee is missing?  You are EXACTLY RIGHT, frustrating as it is.   :-(



Thank you very much for your post!



Excellent post from mom of Dash...very well said and matter of fact...


Title: Re: A MOTHERS TALE?
Post by: KackyLacky on June 22, 2005, 03:03:38 PM
Quote
="iquitos"edited for space


iquitos, these were posted by Dash's mom, known here are "arlee" This was determined earlier and were posted from 5/31 thru 6/2


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 22, 2005, 03:04:04 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!


Nikki, sorry I  am behind.  :? Actually yes, I sent it to the Houston Chronicle since Natalee's uncle lives here and they are following the story closely (wanted to have it go to one local). Then I sent it to ABC and sent a copy specifically to The View (hoping selfishly they would use it in HOT TOPICS today since Bo Bice was there as co-host and would maybe "say my name") LOL. I am an ABC viewer so that's all I sent it to. FOX is making me mad  :evil: lately so I didn't bother...figured someone else would. Plus I do like CNN but I think someone in here works for them so I left that alone. OH...and I also printed it and added it to the board and cross-referenced the supposed facts.


you are Da bomb


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 22, 2005, 03:04:29 PM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
I have already said this don't know if anyone seen it, I feel it is very plausible and a lot more realisitc than many of the other proposed scenerios (international kidnapping, drug rings, etc.)

If you consider the Deepak email to be authentic, and furthermore their time of arrival at the bar to be truthful.... then the theorized "drugging" of natalee by JVS and company doesn't really fit.

JVS arrives at 12:30 bar closes at 1... that's a 30 minute gap. Now consider Natalee has already had her fair share of drinks leading up to this point. I don't know about you but the drinks don't go down as smooth after you have already had your fair share. In order for JVS to drug her he would have to hand her a drink upon his immediate arrival to the bar, which doesn't make much sense. Furthermore, I speculate it would take NH a good 25 plus minutes to even finish the drink after already having her fair share...especially if she was dancing.

Perhaps she and some of the MBHS boys (and girls who knows) voluntarily drugged themselves to make their last ngiht of vacation special?

Or perhaps MBHS boys could have slipped something into Natalees drink? (They were with her the majority of the drinking window that night)

Where do the MBHS students get the drugs from? Consider this scenerio: IT has already been reported that some of the students took the Tatoo boat with DJ Steve Croes....
...Some of the boys make friends with Croes (not common I have befriended and drank with DJ's on past trips).... They get to talking, Croes offers a connect for drugs if they are looking for it... one thing leads to another....

...Perhaps that is why Croes has been reported as cooperating with authorites.. many of you have even speculated he may just be a witness


I belive that is the more likely scenerio. As to what happened after leaving CC, I do not really know. MY guess would be that Nat OD's... JVS and the boys panic and get rid of the body...they know it doesn't look good since they were the last ones with her... which could explain why they act as if they are guilty.

Aslo- with the recent reporting of fights between MBHS boys and Joran... leads to further speculation.  Why would MBH boys get into a fight with Joran?  Did they want to "hook up" with Natalee and feel Joran was impeading that?  That is usually the most common reason for such fights; over a girl.

The fact that Joran knew that MBH boys knew who he was ever further confirms why Joran and the brothers would act guilty.  Put yourself in their position.  You take a girl away from a bar, the same girl whose guy friends you got into a fight with, and she mysteriously dies on you on the beach.... Joran and the brothers to realize "hey this is not good we are goign to be the first people they suspect"  
....plus Joran and the boys would almost definetly have 0 knowledge of Natalee being drugged by MBHS boys.... so her death to them is just as big of a mysterious as it is to us... so what do they tell the police?  "UM yea she just went unconcious and died... police do an autopsy and find the cause to be drugs.. who do you think is taking the rap for that???


I am also thinking this same scenerio is what happened.  Until we find out when the scuffle occurred, what it was about and what was going on in C&C before Jorvan and Co arrived we can only speculate.


I don't think that fits.  Someone that is behaving innocently would have called an ambulance/police immediately, not think up a scenario and dispose of a body.  Doesn't fit the rational train of thought.



Heavyheart--

What if they weren't behaving totally innocently?  When the story first broke it was reported that all 3 had their way with her.  Which is very possible if it was her first time being "drugged".  Possible that she could have even went unconscious during intercorse..... I think at that point the boys need to start thinking about thinking up a scenario and disposing of the body...

In sumation.. the only thing I am fairly certain of is what occured before Nat left CC.  If JVS and the boys arrived at CC at 12:30.. it is practically impossible for them to have drugged her.  That is of course if she was even drugged, which many of you are leaning towards... if she wasn't my theory is baseless


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Oh, BTW, FYI, and all that jazz..for anyone interested and anyone who was on about 12;30 this a.m., i went to the MD...no cancer..no benign tumors..nothing..nada...zilch..and zippo!!!!!!!


Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming......


I am so happy to hear that!...how wonderful!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: chloe2 on June 22, 2005, 03:05:27 PM
Quote from: "chloe2"
Poking my head in only for a moment --

Nat's on the front page of America's Most Wanted:

http://amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=32411


Er, sorry --maybe it's not the front page. It's the page devoted to Natalee. Looks like they've broadcast it a few times, though - at least on radio.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 03:06:00 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
If anyone is interested, I have been *throwing* around the idea of posting the complete factual things we know etc on a website.

Anyone think that woul dbe helpful so everyone doesn't have to go searching? lol I live in here practically, along with others, maybe it might be helpful to have simple facts we know? Yes no maybe so? lol Trying to be helpful  :wink:


Yes, but.....how to agree on the facts.

I can host it if needed.


Agreed absolut. I am willing to help.

I guess all we have is, she met Joran before CnC (I stick with a day or two before), she left with him aprox 1:30 with Joran, they somehow leave in the Kalpoe's car seated in the back.

There was a scuffle (not sure that's important but it's there) between Joran and some of the kids on the trip.

We have Joran and one or possibly two of his friends being questioned.

We have Deepak and Satish and Deepak's friend Steve arrested.

We at least have a one common theme in all stories...the beach (to which one, we can only guess)

We know Joran had be speaking at school about the case to his friends (through his father)

We know Joran and his friends to frequent CnC and casinos. (possibly leading us to more witnesses at CnC and the casino)

Anything else I am forgetting (I am tired lol)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DT on June 22, 2005, 03:06:22 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
While on the trip.. have any of the MB kids stated at anytime during the trip before NH went missing.. IF she stayed out all night and didnt return any of the other days? Maybe this was asked long ago.. I know when I was younger.. things like that happened.. and friends covered our backs.. I was curious to know ??


I have asked repeatly and never gotten an answer.


To my knowledge, this has not been answered, more like dodged.I would love to ask, if they are claiming that they were not worried because everyone was switching rooms etc etc.. but Natalee is not everyone. She's been said to be responsible, level-headed etc. Would love to know if she had switched room prior to them thinking this. Otherwise, I have a problem with that claim IMHO because normally, someone as she has been described as, would tell someone....gotten something out of the room. Her bags were packed and left on her bed. I think that to be disturbing. Yeah, girls borrow clothes etc etc but she was already packed up and not there. Just odd that no one when waking up wondered why Natalee bags were packed and still ont he bed prior to meeting at the bus.


My point exactly Cali and Karin..Im not blaming her roomates or anything like that.. I know what we did on our senior class trip.. close friends knew if we wernt going to be in our room that night..You know how girls like to tell one another everything... I guess it made me think back to my trip which was years ago. 1983 exact.. Just made me wonder if her friends may know of other evenings she may have not come back to the hotel and thought nothing of her bag being packed on the bed.. figuring perhaps shes been on all night before one of the days..?? Confusing as hell!


Reading too much into this, folks.  My daughter is about as level-headed as they come, smart as a whip, not always so organized but has herself together.  (OK, that's a mom talking, but I am pretty objective.)  She (Dash) tells me that Natalee is MORE so.  She looks up to Natalee.  She admires her.  Natalee has earned her accolades, believe me.  And the fact that her bags were neatly packed and ready to go the night before *does* say something about her routine, her level of responsibility even on a vacation.  I've seen photos of my daughter's hotel room.  Oof.  For a girl as responsible as Dash is, her own bags looked like they'd exploded.  What I'm saying is that in so many ways, Natalee is above and beyond.  It's part of why what happened is so confounding.

As for the packed bags & no Natalee raising a red flag to the roommates -- well apparently it did.  As soon as they realized something was wrong -- and we *cannot* speculate as to when that was or why that was or why it didn't happen sooner -- they said they immediately began working with the chaperones on the situation.  At this point, I think the particulars of that are not for any of us to know.

But going back to this example of the how/where/why's of a responsible, level-headed girl's behavior on this trip:  Dash (who fits that description nicely) was by the pool with 10-20 friends until 5 a.m.  Some of those friends came & went during that time.  Some of them included one of Natalee's roommates for at least part of the time.  Dash was with a group, she knew she was safe, & that was good enough for her.  She didn't bother to check in with anyone, close friends or roommates included.  And it was good enough for Dash's roommates as well, evidently.  When she got back to her room, it was empty.  And she wasn't worried at all.  Is it a great mystery where any of these roommates were, Dash included?  Does it cast doubt on any of the 3 girls that they didn't inform each other of whereabouts?  Nope.  Typical teen behavior on a trip.  Not saying that's *good,* but it's typical, & especially for the kids on this trip, going by individual reports.  Not all girls check in & confide the way it's assumed here.

Another thought:  Natalee was with some of her best friends on this trip, but maybe not *all* of her best friends went.  Maybe her *best* best friend wasn't there.  Dash's wasn't.  So maybe *the* girl she confides in wasn't available & she kept her feelings somewhat to herself.  I don't know -- I'm just throwing that out.

Since their return, not all of the 150 or so kids are in direct phone contact with each other.  You couldn't expect them to be.  And most haven't considered calling Natalee's very best friends.  Through the grapevine we've heard they've been in a terrible state for these weeks.   So no one would have been able to -- or wanted to -- intrude on them with questions as to Natalee's whereabouts 24 hours a day for the entire trip.  As I've said before, who but the roommates even know if the *roommates* stayed in their same room every night?  Them and the FBI, I should say.  Yes, almost if not all the students have been individually question by this time.

I've been following this board for several days but never saw your questions before.  How many posts on each page?  How many pages per thread?  How many threads in succession?  If I or Dash or MBHS05 or others had seen the queries, we'd have answered best we could, but we still wouldn't likely know *the* answer.  Just because a post isn't answered doesn't mean the question was dodged.  Odds are that it just wasn't seen.  (A fact in my case.)

We all have been assuming facts not in evidence, on everything.  Which of you said you're realizing that all we really know is that Natalee is missing?  You are EXACTLY RIGHT, frustrating as it is.   :-(



Thank you very much for your post!



Excellent post from mom of Dash...very well said and matter of fact...


Hate to add another post to this already croweded forum, but I strongly agree.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: luna on June 22, 2005, 03:08:15 PM
Quote from: "jlspence"
Quote from: "luna"
One other thing before I have to run....no one has mentioned accidental alcohol poisoning for Natalee.

There have been lots more stories in the past year or so about sororities or fraternities and alcohol overdoses.  Plus, you hear a lot about students turning 21 and dying on their birthday cus they really aren't aware about the dangers of alcohol.

It is possible that Natalee became uncounscious when they were driving and they did leave her on the beach, rather than take her to the hospital.... stranger things have happened.  They may have thought she passed out and would wake up.

Just sayin it's possible.


The problem with this theory is that if it were true, none of the suspects would have a reason to fabricate other stories.


I guess I disagree with that....it became apparent that something did not go right adn Nat did not make it back to her hotel.  They're realtively young boys....Dad's a judge-in-training and Joran's about to leave for US.  *Definitely* don't want to be implicated in anything sinister, even if they don't know what happened.  Much better to make up a story saying she was fine (well, a little drunk) and they dropped her off.

Plenty of motive to lie from my perspective.
___________
Also, thanks very much iquitos for those e-mails....that sheds a clearer light on how she seemed to be doing when leaving CnCs.

I would like to add that in my younger days, I did some very out of character things when under the influence....one is not always aware of their behavior....I don't know if Nat was overly drunk, just relating a personal experience.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 03:10:08 PM
OK..I am lost and I don't know if I am agreeing or disagreeing but Cali, I liked your idea of compiling facts.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 03:13:58 PM
Kerin,
Are you sure you are not an investigator...not an English teacher :wink:  :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
OK..I am lost and I don't know if I am agreeing or disagreeing but Cali, I liked your idea of compiling facts.
lol Kerin I just was hoping we could gathr something and be able to just link people instead of having to try to come up with it all when people who may be new to the case come in  :wink:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: HannieC on June 22, 2005, 03:15:12 PM
Hi all :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: "nisxan"
Teo, I am listening to TOP 95 and would like to make a couple of comments:

1. I really hope the people in Aruba [don't] think this Dee Fine woman speaks for all of us. I live in Birmingham and had NEVER heard of her until she started her own personal campaign against Aruba. I do NOT agree with her, and I would say the vast majority of us don't. I really wish they would quit giving her any air time so maybe she'll just shut up.


Hear hear.  She is a moron.  She had to remove that link to the Ban Aruba petition from her web site 'cause so many signed under such pseudonyms as "DEE FINE IS A BIG FAT IDIOT."  LOL

I really feel that Fox's continual airing of this fool's views are hurting the search effort.  I emailed Dee's web site about that & from the response it's clear she doesn't give a flip.  She's vilified Aruba, the chaperones, the teens, the Holloway Twitty's, and the rest of the parents.  Why not, when it gets her own face on tv?  Such a creep.

Nisxan, as you're in B'ham, too, why don't we all just quietly BOYCOTT all of her show's sponsors?  In a way just big enough to be effective, but quiet enough NOT to distract from Natalee's search.  Hmmmmm...


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Red on June 22, 2005, 03:17:00 PM
FYI -

Just a reminder ... The news I got,  
According to CNN, unless there is breaking news of some sort and it gets bumped, "Inside the Blogs" is going to do a piece this afternoon on Scared Monkeys and how the Natalee story is being helped driven by blogs so it does not fall of the headlines.

Thanks to hard work, little sleep and all the Monkey Junkies out there ... we will not let this story go away until Natalee is brought home. Thanks for the positive things that are being done here.

Inside the blogs is on at 420p and 450p. I believe we will be on the 4.50 one.

Thanks to all.
Red


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 03:18:58 PM
Quote from: "Red"
FYI -

Just a reminder ... The news I got,  
According to CNN, unless there is breaking news of some sort and it gets bumped, "Inside the Blogs" is going to do a piece this afternoon on Scared Monkeys and how the Natalee story is being helped driven by blogs so it does not fall of the headlines.

Thanks to hard work, little sleep and all the Monkey Junkies out there ... we will not let this story go away until Natalee is brought home. Thanks for the positive things that are being done here.

Inside the blogs is on at 420p and 450p. I believe we will be on the 4.50 one.

Thanks to all.
Red

Aww that's great, Red! See, you need a gift shop...I want a Monkey shirt! lol


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Teo on June 22, 2005, 03:19:06 PM
Quote from: "jpepling"
Quote from: "nisxan"
2. Is there any way to communicate to the DJ's at TOP 95 that neither NH's father or stepfather have ANYTHING to do with the U.S. government? That seems like a pretty simple thing to verify and clear up. In a case with so many question marks, any absolutes would be a welcome change.


Top 95's website is: http://www.top95fm.aw/

All types of contact info there including phone numbers, e-mail, and MSN Chat.


Only hope their website has been repaired. They made a mistak last time they updated it, now it looks like a mess.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 03:19:13 PM
Great idea, Cali! (for a hussy)  :)  Hi Hannie!

and amiller...I am just an English teacher who is really into details! Some say anal-retentive! Drives my students nuts!! :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
You guys are blaming Aruba for their laws on not letting the dogs arrive there before proper proceedure is done? Heck, this is done in EVERY single country. And it's just the way it is.


Hawaii has a 6 month quarantine even coming from the mainland US.


But Aruba doesn't.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jlspence on June 22, 2005, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: "luna"

I guess I disagree with that....it became apparent that something did not go right adn Nat did not make it back to her hotel.  They're realtively young boys....Dad's a judge-in-training and Joran's about to leave for US.  *Definitely* don't want to be implicated in anything sinister, even if they don't know what happened.  Much better to make up a story saying she was fine (well, a little drunk) and they dropped her off.

Plenty of motive to lie from my perspective.


That would be plenty of motive to lie initially but not to continue lying for some two weeks and the prospect of remaining in jail for another 100 days.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: another monkey on June 22, 2005, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "clevfan1234"
You guys are blaming Aruba for their laws on not letting the dogs arrive there before proper proceedure is done? Heck, this is done in EVERY single country. And it's just the way it is.


Hawaii has a 6 month quarantine even coming from the mainland US.


But Aruba doesn't.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 03:20:14 PM
Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "nisxan"
Teo, I am listening to TOP 95 and would like to make a couple of comments:

1. I really hope the people in Aruba [don't] think this Dee Fine woman speaks for all of us. I live in Birmingham and had NEVER heard of her until she started her own personal campaign against Aruba. I do NOT agree with her, and I would say the vast majority of us don't. I really wish they would quit giving her any air time so maybe she'll just shut up.


Hear hear.  She is a moron.  She had to remove that link to the Ban Aruba petition from her web site 'cause so many signed under such pseudonyms as "DEE FINE IS A BIG FAT IDIOT."  LOL

I really feel that Fox's continual airing of this fool's views are hurting the search effort.  I emailed Dee's web site about that & from the response it's clear she doesn't give a flip.  She's vilified Aruba, the chaperones, the teens, the Holloway Twitty's, and the rest of the parents.  Why not, when it gets her own face on tv?  Such a creep.

Nisxan, as you're in B'ham, too, why don't we all just quietly BOYCOTT all of her show's sponsors?  In a way just big enough to be effective, but quiet enough NOT to distract from Natalee's search.  Hmmmmm...



Here's a link to Dee Fines site w/ links to their advertisers...have at it monkeys  :lol: http://www.voiceofalabama.com/


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 03:20:37 PM
Thanks, Red!

BTW...what exactly is a CGI limit and what have I done to "reach it"?
(probably just me)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 22, 2005, 03:21:50 PM
There's discussion of Scared Monkeys on Hasibokos:

http://www.hasibokos.com/


Title: Re: Inter view with Mrs Ross
Post by: Compananzi on June 22, 2005, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: "another monkey"
Quote from: "Terry"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
American Ross, on the show 95.1 expressing her support of Aruba, and dispelling negative publicity.  Mrs Ross says negative publicity is undeserved.   She point out the govt closing down to assit the search for Nat.  The cancellation of a mini carnaval of Aruba out of respect of Nat.  Why does Aruba deserve this negative feed?  Also a mention of some American Devine about boycotting Aruba is undeserved...had an Arubian been lost in America doubtful if search was done prior to 24hr for missing person...nor forget about closing the govt for a search, blah blah blah..
Okay, ty.


Is she saying that Arubans don't have mothers willing to devote every minute searching for her child, demanding that something be done, while her heart is being broken? Natalee's mother is brave and strong and will not let this get covered up, regardless of tourist dollars or embarrassment of government or police. Now, I'm getting mad.


No she is saying anything negative of BH, you troll...if you gonna be mad then try finding Claudia Kirschhoch, missing in Jamaica or Amy Bradley missing in the middle of a sea, in the middle of a 3000 cruise ship.  One was missing for 7 years the other like for 5 years.  They also have mothers whose heart are broken, and guess what? No US calvary came to their recue nor the host country they dissapeared.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Terry on June 22, 2005, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "arlee"
Quote from: "nisxan"
Teo, I am listening to TOP 95 and would like to make a couple of comments:

1. I really hope the people in Aruba [don't] think this Dee Fine woman speaks for all of us. I live in Birmingham and had NEVER heard of her until she started her own personal campaign against Aruba. I do NOT agree with her, and I would say the vast majority of us don't. I really wish they would quit giving her any air time so maybe she'll just shut up.


Hear hear.  She is a moron.  She had to remove that link to the Ban Aruba petition from her web site 'cause so many signed under such pseudonyms as "DEE FINE IS A BIG FAT IDIOT."  LOL

I really feel that Fox's continual airing of this fool's views are hurting the search effort.  I emailed Dee's web site about that & from the response it's clear she doesn't give a flip.  She's vilified Aruba, the chaperones, the teens, the Holloway Twitty's, and the rest of the parents.  Why not, when it gets her own face on tv?  Such a creep.

Nisxan, as you're in B'ham, too, why don't we all just quietly BOYCOTT all of her show's sponsors?  In a way just big enough to be effective, but quiet enough NOT to distract from Natalee's search.  Hmmmmm...



Here's a link to Dee Fines site w/ links to their advertisers...have at it monkeys  :lol: http://www.voiceofalabama.com/
Where?  :wink:

Oh, there it is, thanks Diva.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: BarStine on June 22, 2005, 03:22:21 PM
Quote from: "pybird"
I'm about ready to throw the remote control at the TV!  Fox keeps telling us in their teasers that they tell us what the story is that Joren is saying today.  Then when they do the update it's just a repeat of what has been reported for at least the last 24hrs.  Aaaarrrgh


Toss out the TV &  computer too....

Yep... the Iraq war was about 5-10 X worse than it actually was if you were not there.

The prospects if NH is never found, and the truth does not emerge,  is a dissappearing legend about as big as DB Cooper.

All the talk of her bags were packed & ready to go....Don't think anyone raised the question of whether she might have been grundging it and wearing the same clothes most of the time, so perhaps the bag pretty much just sat in the same position the whole time anyway. Personally, I would have had all 130 people out searching before anyone leaving the Island. So sad NH did not seem to have like one close buddy there who could have made the save before leaving C/C.


Title: Re: A MOTHERS TALE?
Post by: tuberide on June 22, 2005, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
="iquitos"edited for space


iquitos, these were posted by Dash's mom, known here are "arlee" This was determined earlier and were posted from 5/31 thru 6/2



wouldn't that make her "Mrs.Dash"?

(sorry, couldnt resist)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: absolut on June 22, 2005, 03:23:47 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
If anyone is interested, I have been *throwing* around the idea of posting the complete factual things we know etc on a website.

Anyone think that woul dbe helpful so everyone doesn't have to go searching? lol I live in here practically, along with others, maybe it might be helpful to have simple facts we know? Yes no maybe so? lol Trying to be helpful  :wink:


Yes, but.....how to agree on the facts.

I can host it if needed.


Agreed absolut. I am willing to help.

I guess all we have is, she met Joran before CnC (I stick with a day or two before), she left with him aprox 1:30 with Joran, they somehow leave in the Kalpoe's car seated in the back.

There was a scuffle (not sure that's important but it's there) between Joran and some of the kids on the trip.

We have Joran and one or possibly two of his friends being questioned.

We have Deepak and Satish and Deepak's friend Steve arrested.

We at least have a one common theme in all stories...the beach (to which one, we can only guess)

We know Joran had be speaking at school about the case to his friends (through his father)

We know Joran and his friends to frequent CnC and casinos. (possibly leading us to more witnesses at CnC and the casino)

Anything else I am forgetting (I am tired lol)


You put it exactly in the order and content you want and I will cut and paste it in. It is ready to go up.


Title: Re: A MOTHERS TALE?
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: "tuberide"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
="iquitos"edited for space


iquitos, these were posted by Dash's mom, known here are "arlee" This was determined earlier and were posted from 5/31 thru 6/2



wouldn't that make her "Mrs.Dash"?

(sorry, couldnt resist)


Good one Tube  :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 03:25:22 PM
Kerin,
I think you're doing a great job (as well as all of you others who are investigating the facts so deeply)!  Thank you for all of your hard work!....I love to catch up on all that's going on when my little guy is sleeping...


Title: Re: A MOTHERS TALE?
Post by: DivaToo on June 22, 2005, 03:25:58 PM
Quote from: "tuberide"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote
="iquitos"edited for space


iquitos, these were posted by Dash's mom, known here are "arlee" This was determined earlier and were posted from 5/31 thru 6/2



wouldn't that make her "Mrs.Dash"?

(sorry, couldnt resist)


Good one Tube  :lol:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 22, 2005, 03:26:00 PM
(please no bashing...I am too tired) wanted to say that the issue I brought up in the forum earlier has had a happy ending.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
If anyone is interested, I have been *throwing* around the idea of posting the complete factual things we know etc on a website.

Anyone think that woul dbe helpful so everyone doesn't have to go searching? lol I live in here practically, along with others, maybe it might be helpful to have simple facts we know? Yes no maybe so? lol Trying to be helpful  :wink:


Yes, but.....how to agree on the facts.

I can host it if needed.


Agreed absolut. I am willing to help.

I guess all we have is, she met Joran before CnC (I stick with a day or two before), she left with him aprox 1:30 with Joran, they somehow leave in the Kalpoe's car seated in the back.

There was a scuffle (not sure that's important but it's there) between Joran and some of the kids on the trip.

We have Joran and one or possibly two of his friends being questioned.

We have Deepak and Satish and Deepak's friend Steve arrested.

We at least have a one common theme in all stories...the beach (to which one, we can only guess)

We know Joran had be speaking at school about the case to his friends (through his father)

We know Joran and his friends to frequent CnC and casinos. (possibly leading us to more witnesses at CnC and the casino)

Anything else I am forgetting (I am tired lol)


You put it exactly in the order and content you want and I will cut and paste it in. It is ready to go up.


Okay all..(Kerin lol) Anyone have anything to change add etc? Please let us know  :wink:

As you know, I am a fanatic about getting things straight lol


Title: AUA GIRLS
Post by: iquitos on June 22, 2005, 03:27:04 PM
BTW.  WHERE ARE OUR TWO ARUBA GIRLS TODAY?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 22, 2005, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
(please no bashing...I am too tired) wanted to say that the issue I brought up in the forum earlier has had a happy ending.


She's okay Kerin???


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 03:28:44 PM
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"

In sumation.. the only thing I am fairly certain of is what occured before Nat left CC.  If JVS and the boys arrived at CC at 12:30.. it is practically impossible for them to have drugged her.  That is of course if she was even drugged, which many of you are leaning towards... if she wasn't my theory is baseless


Don't rufies work almost immediately?  Couldn't she have been given a doctored beer in the car?  That seems a likely scenario to me.  Had she been drugged *in the bar*, she couldn't have been walking & talking after the bar closed, right?


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: jpepling on June 22, 2005, 03:28:55 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
Quote from: "jpepling"
Quote from: "nisxan"
2. Is there any way to communicate to the DJ's at TOP 95 that neither NH's father or stepfather have ANYTHING to do with the U.S. government? That seems like a pretty simple thing to verify and clear up. In a case with so many question marks, any absolutes would be a welcome change.


Top 95's website is: http://www.top95fm.aw/

All types of contact info there including phone numbers, e-mail, and MSN Chat.


Only hope their website has been repaired. They made a mistak last time they updated it, now it looks like a mess.


No, it still looks like crap.  But the information is all there and readable!


Title: Re: AUA GIRLS
Post by: RB on June 22, 2005, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
BTW.  WHERE ARE OUR TWO ARUBA GIRLS TODAY?


Uhm, they have a life? :)


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 22, 2005, 03:29:29 PM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
This is for whom I consider head MONKEY SLEUTHS..Cali and Kerin...have either one of you guys tried to contact media, authorities, etc reagrding the wonder woman email?


I emailed it to Greta



DIVA? No chit??? YOU GO WOMAN......<bowing down> I have underestimated you....lol


As soon as WW posted, I was waiting. Told Greta to see what she thought of it, she's REALLY good at getting down to the truth!


Girl, if you hear back, YOU HAD BETTER TELL US...lolol


Hope they do get back to you.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
I do not mean to laugh, but some how I get the feeling if the email gets talked about by Greta we will be seeing it tonight on Fox with no reference of where it came from or attribution. Call it a hunch. I would like to think not, but its a hunch.


There is NO WAY Greta or any good journalist will give an email like this any serious look without verification.  It's the same thing many of us asked for here.  Journalists receive all kinds of emails from people claiming to be someone, they are used to doing a full check on the emails validity.  Without header and IP tracking info, this will never get attention.

The best thing you can do is to find the person who received the email, have them send the full email, including header to the authorities and media too...

Edited to add:  The FBI is the LE agency who handles email and Internet transmissions as they are sent across state and country borders.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: amillerwvu on June 22, 2005, 03:29:58 PM
That's great news, Kerin!   What a relief...a happy ending!


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: Ting on June 22, 2005, 03:32:26 PM
Quote
my daughter didn't see, but was told by her friends: That Natalie passed them on the road a short while later, and that she was a passenger in a taxi with another person. She clearly did not know she was in danger; she leaned out the window and shouted something like "Aruba!!! WOOHOO!" ... I have read and heard other versions since then -- that she was actually seen getting in a car with three men; that she was alone with the guy in his car...


It is for this reason that I don't think there is much to be gained from endlessly grilling the kids who were on the trip. As I said last night, they were not expecting to be called upon to provide an accurate minute by minute accounting of their friend Natalee's every movement on the last night of their big trip, the grande finale bash. I would not be surprised if none of them actually went to their rooms and went to sleep that night.

Short of Natalee telling one of them on May 30th, hey no way am I going to that sucky U of Alabama, no sir! I'm dying my hair red and starting a new life in Lagos, the only relevant thing that they can tell us is that she is missing and that (in the case of those who did) that they saw her with Joran, the Kalpoe brothers, or all 3 some time prior to the time she was supposed to be present for the trip to the airport.

This leaves us with for all practical purposes, no actual facts other than that Natalee is missing and the US government is involved.

The congressman's remarks were very intriguing, and if it would not jeopardize the successful return of Natalee to her family, this might be a good time for him to offer some elaboration.

It is my impression that the people of Aruba have bent over backwards to be culturally sensitive, but I also think, as a public relations gesture, that the Aruba Polis should hold a American-style joint press conference with the FBI, meaning a dozen or so officials with impressive-sounding titles, and each one should make a statement to the effect that they are doing everything possible to find Natalee and thank the various other agencies, introduce the next guy, who makes a similar statement, thanks some other people, thanks the next guy, and so on down the line, FBI included. Then they should announce that they will take questions from the media and to 99% of the questions acknowledge that everyone is eager to learn all they can, and thank the public for their understanding that they cannot comment on that particular issue at this time.

This is what Americans are used to, I mean no disrespect, but I think that such an event would go a long way toward calming some of the upset feelings on the part of many. There is an old saying, that it is not so much what you say as how you say it, and Americans have refined the art of saying " the sky does indeed appear to be blue to some very knowledgeable people, but I cannot comment further on these reports at this time" into an art form.


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 22, 2005, 03:33:22 PM
The little toddler in Washington has been identified by his grandmother, she says the boy and his dad (her son) had been staying in a shelter. She does not know where her son is now. Hopefully this will have a happy ending for this baby


Title: Re: A MOTHERS TALE?
Post by: Arlee on June 22, 2005, 03:33:39 PM
Quote from: "tuberide"
wouldn't that make her "Mrs.Dash"?

(sorry, couldnt resist)


I would reference my spicy attributes but it would be wholly inappropriate.    :oops:


Title: RBN # 17 - 6/22/05
Post by: melrose on June 22, 2005, 03:34:39 PM
Quote from: "ar