Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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I agree nancy that was my recollection, Beth said she found out at 11:00 am and was in Aruba by 11:00 pm

I thought Jug gave a more precise time line last night to Greta but now I cannot remember it

Cat, I need to email you or something :)  I'll shoot you one in a few, ok?

Catriana: Hate to tell ya this...but you got the date wrong  :shock:

I remember quite clearly it was 11o'clock at night.

She said "I've been here since 11 o'clock at night on May 30th".

That was on Nancy Grace, though.

Quote:
So do YOU (posters) believe he killed her or it was an accident or (gasp) she met foul play after him at like say 3:30am?

I have to continue believing that Natalee is alive, unless we are shown proof to the contrary.

I think I remember Jug said they went to the Wyndham casino to look for Joran and returned to the Van Der Sloot house at 3:45 am, at which time Joran was home?

does Fox publish transcripts of their shows like MSNBC

Cancon:

I'll go look for the archived transcripts on Fox.  

Arubagirl:

If you need to email me, it's now available by clicking below. You're great!  This is an emotional case and for you it's much more so...you're right in the middle giving reports, supporting your country, etc.  You're handling it very well.

You know I've asked like four people who watched the interview last night with Jug on On THe Record, and none of them remember anyone saying that Joran was in school bragging about having sex with holloway. I didn't hear this either but I missed part of the interview. Does anyone remember if this was said?

Thank you, I fixed it! :) :)

and RB.. will watch for that email!   :D

Hannie - I think a lot of folks keep forgetting the "different justice system" and just keep making the assumptions we would make if these people were arrested in the US. It's frustrating to see the immediate jumps into "guilty" mode when this happens.

And a lot of folks arrested in the US and "convicted" in the media turn out to be innocent too.

We're not good at those grey areas it seems.

Arubagirl... are the cops in Aruba inclined to be on the take? For instance, in Mexico, tourists are pulled over for some small infraction and requested to pay the "fine" directly to the officer. Are there particular cops that are worse than others?

Two weeks ago I thought for sure Joran killed her accidently (drugs most likely).
Now I have no idea.  Inspector makes a damn good point about Jorans actions in the days following her disappearance (if those are true).

You know what would be really cool Cat?  A message at the bottom of the closing thread so this Kat doesn't sit there like an idiot hitting refresh for 5 minutes...

LYMI!  ;-)

oeff OMG....

Whenever i wright an reply and return, you guys/gals are 10 pages ahead
I think a should take an english wrighting class......
 :lol:



Kat wrote:





I`m ashame to say I did that also the first week :oops:  :lol:

Wantsanswers - the hats and tight jeans are great ... the posse mentality is not.

That said, I'd be posse-ing if my daughter were missing too - but that doesn't make it the best way to deal with things, IMO.

She put that note in and another post slide in under it before the lock.

I believe I heard that he was talking about it at school, but don't recall the word "sex" as ever being used.  Remember, a teacher called Anita and told her that Joran needed to stop talking about it because Natalee was still missing.  Why don't they talk to the kids at school and find out exactly what he was saying?

oh some of it coming back to me

they must have arrived at 11, got settled in a bit at the Holiday Inn and remember they were asking the Holiday staff for leads,  did they know about Joran before they arrived in Aruba, did some of the high school kids fill them in before or what?  but they were certainly talking to the casino staff, who mentioned Joran, I think they found out where Joran lives from a taxi cab driver who took them there, so it would make sense they arrived around 1ish

Jug said the cops were talking to Mr. V for a while there, then you get the claim that Joran was out at a casino, around 3:00 am ish they go over to find him, quickly ascertain he is not there and then Jug says we get back to the Van Der Sloot house at 3:45 am at which time Joran is home or out in the front of the house

You know what I like about reading your posts?  You manage to say the same thing in one line rather than in a paragraph.  Good writing, nice job.

Cancon, I would LOVE to debate this with you, but everyone may start slinging arrows at us. I find it interesting however, that a certain group of politics decided that Al-Jareeza were repeating Durbin's comments (mind you, I think he was way way over the line and it pissed me off) over and over and over, only to have it proven it was NOT.As a matter of fact was even given little notice on their website. I just realize that not agreeing with the war ( remember my son is there right now) does not mean I have no respect or love of my military or country. I just think we were lied to. And as an American, that is my opinion.
That said, friends?  :D

Scott wrote: "If, by some incomprehendible circumstance, the truth is that her son is not responsible for Natalee's disappearance, his life, in no way, is ruined. In fact, he would likely be exonerated by the court of public opinion as another victim in this tragedy, as well as in the Aruban legal system."

Yes, and a book deal to boot!

Seems he was calm, cool, and collected.  But remember Scott Peterson?

Are you guys watching the report on CNN?

Right I heard things about him talking at school, and I remember a statement from his mother about kids asking him what happened that night. But I don't remember the words bragging or sex.  Maybe he implied it?

Another difference between the legal systems is here in the US a minor can not be interrogated without a parent present... or at least have the testimony in court.  Also in the US you can have a lawyer present who generally controls your answers.

From what I understand, the boys do not have lawyers and we know the parents aren't there.   This would never happen the the US otherwise the case couldn't include anything he says without lawyer or folks present... I think.?

Maybe Hannie can correct me if I get this example wrong  :wink:

In the US when a crime happens, a report is made, then start investigating etc etc then when they have enough facts they put out a warrant and arrest someone etc etc

Dutch system when a crime happens, someone's taken, investigating starts, then the facts come, then the charges are pressed etc etc

Huge differences. Har dto understand but not everywhere is like the US.

CNN THINKS that it is very significant that the judge is arrested.  They just called it "A big break"

They also do not believe Joran left Natalee walking alone on a beach.  They believe there is much significance in that as well

I have not EVER, EVER heard that the cops are on the 'take', in the example that you referenced.

We have had dirty cops, certainly, but not so blatantly.

Why thank you.  I'll pass this along to my husband, who won't believe it.

coco--

Can we agree that the local LE seemed paralyzed, for whatever reason, and the "posse attitude" at that point would be understandable?

I cannot fault them for taking matters into their own hands.

To answer the question Absolut posed in Thread 19: Aruba Girl's observation that Joran is implicated by virtue of the fact that he keeps changing his story seems indisputable. Something bad happened to Natalee, and he knows what that was, or helped to cause it. Possibly he committed what the police call "a rape gone wrong." She might have run from  him after the attack, he chased her, she fell and injured herself very badly--perhaps striking her head on a rock. She died and he was left with a body on his hands. Or--he appears to be a big strong guy--she could have screamed, and he tried to quiet her forcibly.

Yes - book deal, movie deal.  He would profit from American capitalism, for sure!

We do put a note on the bottom....  but sometimes, I think people pass that note while they are typing replies!

 8)  8)

This almost looks like the kitty cat discussion. Maybe a thread in an obsure place could be all yours :)

that is my question as well. Like I said on the other board, joran was told to stop talking about this case, but nothing was said about his bragging about sex

I know absolute, that is why I said we were probably in the wrong place! lol

By the way, if anyone remembers nativelingo, she's on vacation. That's why she hasn't been around.

I don't think it was Jug who said it or maybe it was the night before, not last night

I had heard somewhere that the reason Mr. V couldn't see Joran beause he has told him to not talk about Natalee and they caught it on wiretap

because Joran was shooting his mouth off at school

Mrs. V explained to Greta in their interview that indeed Joran had been talking about Natalee in school, including saying things like I'm going to kick her butt when she shows up for causing me so much trouble

in fact didn't she say the headmaster of the school expressed concern about Joran talking about it and it not being appropirate or that his words could be misconstrued, she told Mr. V,  who called Joran on his cell phone, to keep his mouth shut....

They were at Joran's house by around 3 AM he said...but he also said that they were there within about 3 hours from landing in Aruba....Aruba is ET, Alabama is CT, so he may have been looking at his watch...and depending what time it was set to...but he did state it was around 3 AM when he showed at Joran's the first time and around 3:45 AM the second time.

Coco....very much agreed.

Cool thanks for the update. I was wondering.

Thanks Arubagirl... was  thinking that perhaps Papa VDS might have known some of the more unsavory cops and made a request for clean up, thinking they would be a little more saavy about that type of thing, as opposed to some Boat DJ.

I guess my ADD would explain that.  

(Thanks, Cat. Well done on the management piece BTW.)

Cancon:

These should help:

Beth Twitty's interview with Greta:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159779,00.html
Jug Twitty's interview with Greta:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159899,00.html

The Jug Twitty interview was from 6/17, was there a more recent one with Greta? Not sure.

And whether he gets convicted or not, I'm sure he'll have marraige proposals up the wazzoo!

What about our pregnant one?   Any word on a baby.  Has AmericaninAruba stopped by with an update?

Did DJ go into labor????

They all stated 11pm..they got on the plane as soon they could.

heartache, I don't think an Aruban (i.e. Aruban descent) would cover up that quickly for a Dutch official. See, he doesn't have any real influence or power, and I don't think he's that rich to offer a lot of money.

I'm not saying that we're all perfect angels, I'm saying that Arubans don't trust Dutch people that easily.

They also got internation flight plan approval in record time.

Anyone watch Dan Abrahms tonight?

There was a family friend of the VDS' on, stated he was an American--Bob something. He said the judge's arrest was because of the media crush in Aruba, and that Joran's civil rights were being violated. He obviously was comparing Aruba practices against US practices. I just thought it was interesting. Also, he said that Anita while "stunned" was not really surprised as she thought it may be coming.

When asked what pvds' position was he could not answer. But a lady attorney who had worked with pvds in the prosecution office previously said he was a nice kind man, and that many on the island were shocled

We'll even though I wish for Natalee's safe return, I have to say the story sounded like a murder or accidental death and cover-up from the start.

With the arrest of SC and papa, it points to a story of a natalee dieing at the beach or the house, and papa helping cover it up. SC fit's in with suppling the drugs and possibly a boat to dispose of the body. (The 6:30 am call could be a confirmation that the deed was done, and to reaffirm the "dropped her at HI" lie.

My apologies and prayers to Natalee and her family and friends for discussing this in such a cold manner. I wish Natalee was alive, and could be safely returned to her family. But all the lies seem to point to a simple truth that Natalee has perished.

May those who treated her with such disrespect burn in hell!

icey

Juvenal - I certainly understand the posse reaction - my daughter, who is now a responsible young woman, stayed out overnight once when she was 15 with no word to me - I was at the police station immediately filing a report. (and since we live in a small town, the local tough cop was at our house when she returned home to give her quite a talking to!)

But I've also travelled to the Carib. and have lots of friends there - a lot of tourists including the young spring breakers, etc - get pretty out of control and act in a way that looks irresponsible. It would not surprise me if local authorities thought - oops, another young lady got too drunk or decided to stay with new boyfriend or ran away. We even here in the states have to wait, what 24 hours or so before a missing person report is taken seriously. It does seem that the initial police report was mishandled and not filed - that's awful - but I'm not convinced the Aruban police are off the wall. In fact, a lot of parents in the US whose teens go missing complain that it's almost impossible to convince the cops they are not runaways.

still a mystery

Joran is a kid, but the dad is an adult working for the government. You would think he would have just told him to tell the truth and nothing much would happen to him with his father in the position he is in.  What was he thinking?

hasibokos has posted more as promised and now the larger american papers are picking up the story as well - nytimes, washpost

PDATE 33: Hasibokos.com has received confirmation that Paul van der Sloot has been arrested on Thursday afternoon. According to a report by TOP95 the public prosecutions spokesperson Mariaine Croes confirmed to them that van der Sloot has been arrested because they suspect that either he had something to do with the disappearance of Natalee Paul van der SlootHolloway or he knows more information regarding her disappearance. We understood that he is being interrogated at the police station at Noord and will remain in custody thereafter. Up until now the Dutch media has not dedicated much attention to the Holloway disappearance, but after the arrest of Joran van der Sloot almost 2 weeks ago, the Dutch media began reporting more developments in this case. We can predict that the arrest of Paul van der Sloot on Thursday will definitely change things as the unexpected arrest of a Dutch jude-in-training is already covering most of the headlines of the online news media in The Netherlands  We expect most of the printed media to follow on Friday. The arrest of Paul van der Sloot in Aruba took place in the afternoon in Aruba and was reported inmediatly in The Netherlands. Considering the European time zone that The Netherlands is in (6 hours ahead), the news was reported in evening hours over there. Almost all the online news media in The Netherlands are reporting that the Aruban authorities are not really pursuing this case as a Search & Rescue (anymore). According to the Dutch media the Aruban authorities believe that a crime has been committed and that this has led to Natalee’s death.  Also because of the fact that Natalee has been missing for more than 3 weeks now,  the authorities are conducting a murder investigation.  The fact the suspect have been changing their stories it's believed that they are hiding something. Hasibokos.com has lost count of the times that the suspects, especially Joran van der Sloot, changed their stories. According to a (unconfirmed) recent information we got, Joran has changed his statement again. He is still saying that he did not harm Natalee in any way but he has admitted now that he was not dropped at home but instead had spend more time with Natalee (allegedly on the beach) on the night of her disappearance.

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005

Kacky Lacky yes we could debate for days on the topic, I could quote directly from Osama Bin Laden but we'll leave the politics aside except Arubian politics, that's a whole other discussion board......

does Anita Van Der Sloot feel her family is being railroaded perhaps by her comments today

I do feel sorry for her, if her son and husband are guilty of some crimes yet to be determined, I don't think she's in on the truth, not quite yet....

Colonization is traditionally less popular with the colonee ;)

NANCY GRACE ON CNN JUST SAID  She feels that perhaps the judge put the kids up to that original statment.

CaliGirl wrote:





You`re absolutly right my girl  :D so it`s indeed frustrating to see what some people on this forum come up with. A bookdeal or whatever doesn`t work in our culture that`s the "American"culture excuse my generalization if i`m not correct! That simply don`t happens here.
if and I say IF it prooves that the vds and the kalpoes have nothing to do with whatever happens to natalee there lives will be ruined no bookdeals or sues for money or something. That is why I personally thinks this mediahype is so dangerous.

And by the way I understand that the main factor is to bring Natalee home
But not to crusify maybe 'innocent' people who have nothing to do whith what happens......

Well said!

Good for her! I start vacation tomorrow and my biggest frustration is that I'll be disconnected from SM for 6 hours of traveling! :shock:

ARUBAGIRL--- :wink:   HI!  do  the casinoes close @ 2 or 3 am??

I just got in....did I miss anything??

The whole key to this case is how Joran got home after his time with the Kalpoes. No matter where the KP's left him and Natalee. he was home the next morning in time to get his regular school routine together.

The KPs drop him off anywhere (except his own house) with NH and he's got a getting home problem.  There are only so many ways to do that.

He calls/texts Dad to pick them up on the beach (be it NH is fine or not). There's a record of the contact. Ditto the Kps. He gets them (one or both) to come get him. There's a phone/txt record. They don't just magically know what time to come get him.

He walks. It's gotta be around 3:00 - 4:00 am. Not one person sees him on what is around a 1-1/2 to 2 hr walk. (and in a busy tourist area, where he would be starting from, there are delivery people, bakeries, fishermen, cleaning/laundry staff, etc all coming to work/getting off work at that time). He didn't carry her all the way home, so in this senario, the only thing he could have done is hidden her or left her on the sand.

He goes to the Tatoo and gets his buddy to give him a ride, but, his buddy then covers for him and goes to the slammer? I don't think so.

Last, but not least, he's right by a bunch of hotels. The easiest thing in the world is to walk into the lobby and ask them to get him a cab. They are more than used to helping out drunk teens. There's probably a few just hanging around anyway. No one has any kind of record of this happening.

Joran walked home, Daddy VDS took Joran back to beach where he left her and covered it up from there. to protect his son and his career. Pressed on some friends in LE to find a patsy and then the S*** hit the fan.  

Please poke all the holes you want in this thinking, because I am very curious to see if there is anything I am missing.

Well said, Ting

TX search guys said that they are looking for NH as if she's both alive and dead, just FYI.

I have wanted to say this for a couple of hours but it was very busy in here. After doing all the research and going websites of cams and the hotels and the Tattoo and so much more. Aruba is beautful cept for that pond but I digress. I have never been outside of the US, unlike RB who is a world traveller. I would love to visit and may put it over Vegas as my dream destination for the near term.

I think I would go in the spring though. Before hurricanes and when it is not so hot.

And this Aruba commercial was brought to you by ScaredMonkeys.com

Well that's the best thing to do since anyone who knows isn't talkin.

 :arrow:
I don't buy it either

Yes, the female lawyer and former Asst. DA (not sure the correct Aruban title) said Paulas was a quiet, kind, soft spoken man.

wasn't there some thing going around about a conversation at the vds pool? Perhaps pvds was in on that?

except in Canada, LOL, took us centuries to break the apron strings and there are still some threads hanging on......

Absolut, try coming for carnival (FEB). It would be a blast.

Cancon, we like Dutch money coming our way, we're not too convinced about the people...

:)

That's very true about LE not being overly concerned about missing persons. Happens here in the U.S. too. All the more reason why I don't blame the Twittys one bit for doing what they did.

But it sounds like you have some good local LE where you live. I'm very glad things turned out all right.

Yes, actually I was talking to my other half, and we made a tentative plan for later this year. I want to go there.

Oh gawd. That women is evil, imo. :roll:
"Being a crime victim myself, i, blah blah blah"

Good idea 20 degrees here and possible 6-12 inches of snow, to the bright sunshine and clear waters of aruba. Can I wear my Don Johnson (Miami Vice) wear in Feb?

i really don't like to talk about this But i saw natelee's real dad on on tv last night he said that they hoped she was alive but they realize that she is most likely dead

LiL, if he was saying that he had sex with NH to his friends, I'm guessing it's bragging. I'm not sure how it goes in the U.S., but if you hear the local teenage boys talking you'd think that they have bedded hundreds of beautiful girls.

OMG, that was great. Make sure and share pics.  :lol:

Hannie:

I have a legal question.  Are you a Dutch lawyer?

Well if it hadn't beemn for the USA Media those 2 native Arubaians(black security guards" would have already been convicted for Natalee's Disappearance. it was the Pressure form the USA Media that FINALLY got the Dutch to Do some SERIOUS Police /Investigative Work on this case. get some perspective..Please...


GuyWdog

Unfortunately, It is almost impossible to believe that NH is still alive. To believe so would mean that someone (?) would have to be holding her, feeding her and keeping her alive. – And for what purpose? This is not a kidnapping (for money). The only other explanation (to keep her alive) is for forced prostitution. Possible, but she is an unlikely target for this. It would also mean that the main parties involved would have to have some connection to an international slavery operation and there seems to be no indication of this.

Sorry to say, more than likely, she is buried somewhere on the island or her body was disposed of at sea.

you know what would be the kicker

what if Natalee had died by some accident, and the father orchestrated the coverup just as much to save his own skin, in his own mind, when fessing up at that time would have been the best thing for Joran or all the boys if they were all involved

because it seems to me that Natalee's dead body would be the best way to clear the boys, assuming they didn't rape her

what if all this mess is the father's fault, because he was worrying about his own position and status, and worrying about Joran losing his scholarship etc.....I'd be livid if I were Mrs. V

It IS beautiful.

I can't remember if it was Aruba, or Curacao where I ate iquana, though. . .

Thanks Juvenal! You should have seen her face when she strolled in all casual with her starbucks coffee and saw the cop waiting for her - it was priceless - and she sure never did it again!

REALISTICALLY WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT THIS WAY The Holloways did head first to the Van Der Sloots.  Almost immediately.  

He (Paulus) is a judge for 15 years - knows the laws and the island.

He sets them up with a 'story' and away we go.

But meanwhile does anyone have a conscience???

if they are like casinos in Canada, casinos never close

PS: LilOrphan:


I don't have a banana to bite off!  :shock:  :lol:  :lol:

Hannie--

Some states in the U.S. forbid convicted criminals from making money relating to their crimes, also.

Joran is a long way from convicted, however. And whether he is or not, I think there will be media deals of one kind or another (primarily from the U.S. media).

So there  are No Dutch Cops??? Does one have to be a Native Arubian to be on the Police Force?

Like in Canada, casinos are open 24/7

new report on PVDS' involvement

arubagirl wrote:




Thanks arubagirl.... :(

I think if he had help with the story that night  it would have been a better story   the first fell apart real fast

What happened to the press conference?

It's called an umbilical cord.

When?

Thanks

Hey...when is this conference supposed to be??


AND....I was cruising other boards last night and I found a *very* interesting reference to an Aruban newspaper article (no link provided) that said one of the Fisherman's Huts in the Lover's Lane area had been broken into the night Natalee went missing.....

and an anchor, rope etc had been stolen.....

Any of our Aruban friends hear anything about that???  Someone speculated that SGC was haning out on the Tattoo that night since it doesn't sail on Sundays....and if things went wrong, he might have been pulled in to help.  The poster also said that the Tattoo had two smaller boats, a dinghy and something else....

Anyway....found it all curious....obviously completely a rumor, and most likely wrong.

HA! Least popular of all in America! If I'm not mistaken, we were the only ones to actually overthrow British rule, rather than gradually have it removed over many years.

 :lol:  :lol: and SPEEDOS  :lol:  :lol:

There must be a 2 hour time difference between Alabama and Aruba.

don't know arubagirl - i thought BHT's sister was going to hold a press conference, but have checked all the channels and haven't seen it.  Riehl World just posted more news.

Awww, HannieC, I'm sorry. It's just that *a lot* of the Dutch civil servants here seem to be know-it-alls.

I've become well-versed in the Aruban/Dutch legal system over these past three weeks.  I'm not reading anything further into the fact that PVDS has been taken into custody as a potential suspect.  It is how the system there operates.  My conclusions are drawn strictly from the circumstantial evidence presented to us all.

IF JVDS is not arraigned on murder charges, he will resume his playboy life in Florida as a freshman at St. Leo College.  

IF PVDS is not arraigned, or implicated in the crime surrounding NH's death, his career as a judge-in-training in Aruba will proceed.

like your new logo... remember on June 18 when you posted that
Hubert Teal(dariio)  was on fox reporting on the NH in venezuela story???
what happened??? :roll:

nancy_drew wrote:




No not close nancy :lol: didn`t you see my bad english writings? LOL

I`m only a dutch citizen who happens to search the internet on more info about natalee since the dutch media didn`t do much coverage of the case.

 :wink:

Luna, I swear I don't remember if there was such a report.

Terry - it is on Riehl World

Hannie:

Do you know anything about the family protection in Aruba?  Not sure the exact name but tonight they said Paulas is legally protected from having to testify against his son.  In this country married couples have that protection, but in Aruba they say it extends to families.

Also, they said this is a big deal given Paulas has been arrested.  Given we know he can't testify against Joran, there is speculation his arrest is for a far greater reason.

Do you know anything about this?

Yes, even if he isn't American, he'll garner American groupies  :lol:

Luna, I vaguely remember it.  Have been following the posts for days, but until today was blocked from posting.

LOL Long Live Queen Liz!!!! :wink:

actually I'd be happy to trade Paul Martin for Tony Blair, oh Brittania!!! :D

How bout' that poll absolut?

There are many reasons that is bad idea and I only proud of half of them.

Still waiting for the Judges decision, it could be very telling.

Here's a good question though

if the Van Der Sloots get off criminally, could the Holloway Twitty clan bring a law suit a la Brown vs Simpson???

were the standard of proof is lower?

not that the VDS have any money more for the priniciple

Gotcha.  I don't have tv today, not until Saturday so I'm in the dark as to when it will air.  

And to save 20 questions, we're moving and that is why there is no tv.

Cancon, I don't think I've heard of such a lawsuit, but I'm not a lawyer.

ah arubagirl that is civil servants everywhere in the world

Watching Nancy Grace?

Okay, according to TeleAruba, Paul van der Sloot is not a judge.

NOT A JUDGE

Oh, and that from now on a judge from the Netherlands Antilles is going to handle this case, because v/d Sloot did work at Judicial Department.

in North America, you can sue someone in the civil courst for wrongful death, whether intentional or by some act of negligence

the Brown family sued OJ Simpson for the death of Nicole Simpson, even though he was acquitted at the criminal trial and they were successful in obtaining a large judgment, which hasn't stopped OJ from hiding his assets and he is still living the good life......

All the networks say that crap to get you to stay tuned.

I am a genetic Tory so I wuld trade Paul Martin for Pee Wee Herman.

That parent-child privilege is not extended, however, if Paulus had any role assisting Joran in Natalee's disappearance.

No, TTL!!  I'm not watching anything cus I'm at work!!

Please tell us what' going on instead of posting these teases!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your info!!

I should say again:

I still think the Kalpoes are just as much a part of this as Joran.

If they were less culpable than he, they would have told the truth as soon as they were arrested, and rolled over on Joran mighty quickly.

I know they have been blaming him for a long time as it is, but I think they were lying too. All three of them were up to no good that night, although I don't think murder was on their minds. "Something bad happened," but they don't want to tell what--because they'd still be in it up to their ears.

nancy_drew wrote:





To be honest, I never heard such thing over here, that is.. that you can`t testify against any familymember. I could be wrong tho. But early in the evening I was looking on the net to see if that is true but till now I can`t find any jurisprudence on that. Maybe someone who knows a lot more on the judicial laws here can answer that.

On Paula Zahn - Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle and BTH's brother, is saying they assume the arrest of PVDS is because he has more info - no hint of they saying "he's involved." He says they believe they're making progress but he doesn't sound that way.

Interesting question.  A civil suit in Aruba?  Hmmmmm.

While we wait for the decision on Mr. VDS and resulting serverplosion, I propose a change of culture war.

Did OJ do it?

I am genetic Tory too but at this rate, Blair is better than Martin, at least Blair doesn't lead by sticking his finger in the wind...

Sorry...but I have to say...I can't stand O'Reilly!! :x

LOL very true! Especially state university bureaucrats!

arubagirl wrote:




It`s ok girl no offense taken :wink:

:roll: Oh, Gawd! here comes Geraldo...

Juvenal, I'm with you.  I think that, yes, "something bad" did happen, and that they are praying (no wonder Joran has taken to reading the Bible in jail) she's never found.  In which case, they don't have to say a word, and will likely be let go.  

I really pray that doesn't happen, though.  I hope they find her alive, and if that doesn't happen, and she is deceased, I pray that they can find her.  Her parents will need that closure, and most certainly deserve it.

you mean he is alive?????

too bad Geraldo you've been outscooped by the masterful Greta Van Susteren

hey is VanSusteren a Dutch name..........

TY Blue

Arubagirl - would it have been Aruba or Curacao where I ate iguana? We went to a local restaurant. I can't remember which island it was though.

I can see where it would be only concievable to them that he knew, not that he was involved in the cover up in the actual misfortune. They probably have a lot of faith in the human spirit and couldn't fathom that someone would be evil enough to have actually done something and then invite BHT into his house.

I'll have to agree with you, there.   :lol:

I'm with you there, klaasend.

Oh no!  Geraldo is back!
He's giving a comment tonight on Fox!
I don't think he's there..but, making comment.

It's one of the few times I've ever agreed with O'Reilly when he said, "Greta is kicking butt in Aruba!!!"

What I like about her is she gets up from a desk and actually goes where the story is...not just the country, that's easy...but, to the parent's homes, all the pertinent locations.  Outstanding work!

K, you're only allowed to read the Bible while you are in the jail at the police station.

I'm amazed by the reams of useless information I have stored in my brains.

I have to think that, whatever they did with her, they are confident that no one will find her!

I'm really disgusted by that. 3 kids? They should've broke a long time ago! What in God's name did they do that they can be so confident?

Hopefully VDS Sr.'s arrest will shake them up a little.

Riehl World View:

Paul Van der Sloot Involved In Natalee Holloway Disappearance
After discussions with two independent sources on Aruba this evening, it would appear that a strong working theory by some close to the investigation is that Paulus Van der Sloot was directly involved with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, up to and including disposal of her body after the fact.

This could explain Joran Van der Sloot's unusual interaction with Satish and Deepak Kalpoe during interrogation, as first reported here.

That interaction involved Joran Van der Sloot changing his story immediately after being called a liar by one of the Kalpoe brothers for stating that he had picked him up at the beach.

I asked questions involving a Scared Monkey's report suggesting the Kalpoe brothers and Steve Croes may be released - neither source felt that was likely. In the opinion of one, "the boys are in this up to their ears," and another contact suggested while there will be a court hearing tomorrow, it was not expected that anyone would be released.

Additionally, in a refreshing change, individuals close to the currently ongoing independent search seemed to praise the co-operation of the Aruban Government, as well as the FBI, suggesting that no stone would be left unturned and all co-operation possible would be extended to gain maximum benefit from the independent search.

It was also suggested that police and FBI would be party to the search, as well as supporting it, and that from initial interaction with EquuSearch, they seemed like an incredibly competent group with an impressive capability.

The search could include up to eight divers, as well as resources capable of handling a ground search. Recent fly-overs over several days have been used to identify areas and locations where a body might have been concealed given the last known location of Natalee Holloway and the presumed time line available for that purpose.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

SM kicks @$$

Paul Van der Sloot Involved In Natalee Holloway Disappearance
After discussions with two independent sources on Aruba this evening, it would appear that a strong working theory by some close to the investigation is that Paulus Van der Sloot was directly involved with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, up to and including disposal of her body after the fact.

This could explain Joran Van der Sloot's unusual interaction with Satish and Deepak Kalpoe during interrogation, as first reported here.

That interaction involved Joran Van der Sloot changing his story immediately after being called a liar by one of the Kalpoe brothers for stating that he had picked him up at the beach.

I asked questions involving a Scared Monkey's report suggesting the Kalpoe brothers and Steve Croes may be released - neither source felt that was likely. In the opinion of one, "the boys are in this up to their ears," and another contact suggested while there will be a court hearing tomorrow, it was not expected that anyone would be released.

Additionally, in a refreshing change, individuals close to the currently ongoing independent search seemed to praise the co-operation of the Aruban Government, as well as the FBI, suggesting that no stone would be left unturned and all co-operation possible would be extended to gain maximum benefit from the independent search.

It was also suggested that police and FBI would be party to the search, as well as supporting it, and that from initial interaction with EquuSearch, they seemed like an incredibly competent group with an impressive capability.

The search could include up to eight divers, as well as resources capable of handling a ground search. Recent fly-overs over several days have been used to identify areas and locations where a body might have been concealed given the last known location of Natalee Holloway and the presumed time line available for that purpose.


Just read this on Riehl World.

All three (Joran, Deepak,Satish) know that they did something criminally wrong. Otherwise the stories wouldn't change. I don't have any good enough friends for whom I would take a kidnapping / murder rap.

If they let the Kalpoe brothers go, I'm going to be very pissed.

me three, he makes the odd good point but I remember when old Bill did real good hard hitting investigative journalism, then again I remember when 60 Minutes did the same, instead of shilling books for Viacom

back to the topic,

now another lawsuit possibility

what if it turns out that Natalee was not dead immediately, that the incompetence of the Aruban police meant a window of time to save her was lost and you could be prove it, now that's the kicker, could you sue the police for it, hmmm, maybe not, they might be immune from that kind of prosecution.......

I know, Arubagirl, but it still humors me, for some reason!  He's going to need a lot of God in his life, to get over this ordeal. ;)

I like that in Aruba, the prisoners are given nothing but the Bible, actually.  I think our prisoners in the US get waaaay too many privileges, IMO.

Hee. Duly noted.

On a more somber note - that Hasibokos report says that police are now treating the case as a murder investigation rather than the search and rescue they had been.  Could that help explain the absence of Beth Holloway Twitty in the media today,  if it's true?  I'm still hoping against hope that these boys got in over their heads and Natalee is still alive....

Greta just mentioned that Mrs. Kalpoe said they seized Deepak's computer.

I saw it on riehl world view   it was surpost to be in a newpaper   say that they thought the steve guy did the breaking and entering

Hey could "Betty" be Steve Croes?

Unless someone confessed.

He can be quite a tool at times.....pretty much all the time.

you know that pond that Alan Colmes visited

I could not believe that that pond had not yet been searched and dredged - would sonar work in a pond like that.......

I recall that on his tickle profile it had a slot for him to list his religion and he replied with "None...sowwy!"

I'd almost say that he might become a Baptist before all this is over, but, I'm not so sure that he will, given his apparent confidence that no one will ever find Natalee.

Yes it does...and who might you be, precious? :)  Welcome to the board!

Not if you believe that it was sent to a friend of Wonder Woman in the states!

The brothers still obstructed Justice and several other things in dutch law, I don't think they will just walk. If she dead the gov't will want as many and as much as they can get for each.

Nancy Grace vs Geraldo

Jeez. The devil and the deep blue sea. They're both a couple of goobers aka "nuts". IMHO. Whoever loves em can have em.  They both get on my last nerve. Greta's never been my fave but at least she acts like she's got some sense for goodness sakes.

And Shep... who I used to like for his sense of humor.. acts a little too gleeful about this whole thing that is shattering so many lives.

I'm running out of channels.... :lol:  :lol:

Absolut, you call an Aruban boy by a female name, you put your life in danger. Unless 'Betty' is some kind of Sranan Tongo slang that I know nothing about.

I`m yealous of you guys that seem to have al the networks... :(

I have only CNN international here in holland and they do a #$$# job
to cover this case. It`s CNN Honkong or the stockmarkets....pffff

>> I remember when old Bill did real good hard hitting investigative journalism

Was it 'Inside Edition' or 'A Current Affair' that he hosted? More like 'National Enquirer' journalism IMO. ;)

names had already been changed to protect the innocent by then? 3rd or 4th or more pass.

I thought that Dee Fine lady was a nut for wanting a boycott of Aruba.  Now I am not so sure.  I think the ordinary people of Aruba are safe enough, but the government seems not only incompetent, but very dangerous.  Be suspected and spend a six month vacation in an unairconditioned Aruban prison while they try to figure out if you really did something.

Off topic, Kipster, but your Avatar cracks me up!

no no it was a way long time ago

he used to great exposes on real news affair programs

See post above about changing the name after the initial pass of the email.

I posted the same question earlier.  Especially when it smells so bad.  Any theories on that from anyone?

Oh no that`s not totally true.... every night  at 3 am I can see larry king... but he`s celebrating for weeks now his 20th anniversary.

And I know Nancy Grace also from that.... but I`m sorry I really don`t like her!!!

Arubagirl, can you kindly tell me what this article says:

ORANJESTAD — Plaatsvervangend lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba, Paul van der Sloot, vader van Joran van der Sloot (17), is vanmiddag iets na twee uur lokale tijd gearresteerd. Zo bevestigt politiewoordvoerder Jan van der Straten. Hij wordt in verband gebracht met de verdwijning op Aruba van Natalee Holloway. De vader was de afgelopen dagen al eerder door de politie ondervraagd. Ook mocht hij zijn zoon – die nu twee weken vast zit – niet bezoeken in de gevangenis.
 

De familie van Natalee Holloway heeft de beloning voor de gouden tip die leidt tot Natalees veilige terugkeer verhoogd tot 150.000 dollar. Eerder werd er 35.000 dollar uitgeloofd, later werd dat verhoogd tot 50.000 dollar. Voor de beloning is intussen een speciale Reward and Recovery Trust gevormd bij de Amsouth Bank in Birmingham, Alabama.

 

VERSCHILLENDE VERSIES

Volgens de politie verandert de zeventienjarige verdachte Joran van der Sloot steeds zijn versie van wat er op de avond van Natalee Holloways verdwijning gebeurde. De politie verhoort de vier vastzittende verdachten regelmatig en zegt daarnaast ook nog steeds getuigen te verhoren. Wat de echte toedracht is en wat er met de Amerikaanse scholiere is gebeurd, blijft echter nog steeds gissen.

Het verhoor van de verdachte jongemannen gebeurt meestal in koppels van twee agenten. Ook worden er confrontaties gehouden, waarbij twee of meer verdachten aanwezig zijn en met elkaars tegengestelde versies worden geconfronteerd.

Het is niet de eerste keer dat Van der Sloot zijn versie van het verhaal verandert. In eerste instantie vertelden alle drie de jongens, toen nog als getuigen, aan de politie dat zij met Holloway naar de vuurtoren zijn gereden en naar Arashi en haar daarna bij het Holiday Inn hebben afgezet. Dit verhaal veranderde toen zij werden aangehouden. Holloway en Van der Sloot zouden bij de Fisherman’s Huts zijn afgezet en de twee broers Satish en Deepak Kalpoe zouden daarna naar huis zijn gegaan.

 

KLACHTEN ADVOCATEN

Advocaten klagen ondertussen dat zij niet alle stukken krijgen. Rudy Oomen, advocaat van Deepak Kalpoe: “Men doet er alles aan om mij het werken zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken. Ik moet steeds druk uitoefenen en dreigen met een procedure om stukken te krijgen.” Ook advocaat Anthony Carlo, die samen met Ariean de Bie en Richie Kock de 17-jarige Joran van der Sloot verdedigt, bevestigt dit beeld. Het advocatenteam heeft een verzoek ingediend om bij de verhoren van Van der Sloot aanwezig te mogen zijn. Carlo: “Volgens het Wetboek van Strafvordering mag de verdediging bij de verhoren aanwezig zijn nadat de verdachte door de rechter-commissaris is gehoord.” De rechter-commissaris interpreteert dit artikel echter anders. Het verzoek werd gisteren door de rechter-commissaris afgewezen.

De vader van Joran mag zijn zoon al een aantal dagen niet meer bezoeken, nadat een bezwaarschriftprocedure hierover in eerste instantie in het voordeel van de vader was gewonnen. Paul van der Sloot gaat tegen deze beslissing van de rechter-commissaris niet in hoger beroep, ook al zou hij zijn minderjarige zoon graag bezoeken. Advocaat Carlo: “Hij wil niet dat zijn positie de aandacht afleidt van de zaak.”

De drie jonge verdachten worden waarschijnlijk morgen weer voor de rechter-commissaris geleid. Het OM zal dan om verlenging van hun bewaring vragen. Van de vierde verdachte, de 26-jarige dj Steve Croes, loopt de inverzekeringstelling zondag af. Als het OM hem langer vast zal willen houden zal het verzoek tot ‘inbewaringstelling’ waarschijnlijk ook morgen worden voorgelegd aan de rechter-commissaris. Rechter Bob Wit zal niet degene zijn die deze rol vervult, aangezien hij deze week is begonnen met zijn nieuwe taak als rechter aan het Caribbean Court of Justice in Trinidad.

then again so did Geraldo

how fame dilutes talent sometimes, look at Michael Jackson, prime example

the pond, well it looks like it is a local dumping site so god knows what is in there........

This was posted here:

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/croes_update_1.html#comments

It's a current comment page going at Riehl

"The Vigilante news paper from Curacao Reports that the Croes guy might have been involved in breaking and entering on of the fishersman's huts, where appearently a fisherman reported that ropes, ankers, and tape have been stolen"

Does anyone know anything about this?? I ask because it leads one to suspect the worst.......I hope not.

CNN's Karl penhaul had a piece with her during the time she got a call about the dad's arrest. She was dropping off and picking someone up at the airport.

What I wonder about re: the rumor this is now a murder investigation--could there actually be a confession

Also--could dad fropped off joran at the marriott as cover, and told him to call Deepak to pick him up as cover? just wondering

Neil, what makes you think that Aruban citizens wouldn't spend those same 6 months in an un-airconditioned cell?

I mean, if it's safe for us, it's safe for you.

 :shock:  :shock:  :(  :(

Father will be held an additional 48 hours...

 

this was not repeat not said in my recollection.

Paul stays in jail, per Karl Penhaul CNN Headline

Absolut............????

wow not good.   :cry:

maybe you can get a satellite dish, can satellite dish from Euro pick up American signals?

I have digital cable and the cool thing is they re arranged the channels so Fox, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, CNN Headline News are all in the same vicinity

LOL so I can channel surf, I also get BBC World News, when you need a Euro perspective....

Err, you want the translation word for word?

yea like when Bill claimed he won a Peabody on Inside Edition--only to be proven a liar. The show won it after he left.

clevfan if I read this article it seems really to me that they are doing things just to comfort the american media, b/c I never heart of such things that laywers are not allowed to see the documents or supposed evidence the prosecution has on there clients. very weird is my guess.

Go take a look at "Dutchlady" posts about the pond and the area over on the "theory" link.

Argh. It's been my husband's theory all along that Dad was trying to protect Joran and 'handled' the mess he created. This is nauseating. I so feel for Natalee's parents. I keep wishing she would be found alive, but the possibility just seems really slim at this point.

<<what if it turns out that Natalee was not dead immediately, that the incompetence of the Aruban police meant a window of time to save her was lost and you could be prove it, now that's the kicker, could you sue the police for it, hmmm, maybe not, they might be immune from that kind of prosecution.......>>

Aruba's worst nightmare.

No, just wondered if there anything in it that we don't already know

Natalie's father seemed resigned to the fact this was a murder investigation last night......

the case has been a murder investigation.  the 3 suspects are remanded on suspicion of accessory to murder, manslaughter, and kidnapping.

 Wow, now that would be something now, wouldn't it?

Why not 8 days?

I always thought it was German  :?

I read that rumor about 4 days ago. :(

If it's true that Aruban boys are homophobic, or that insecure about their masculinity, do you believe it's reasonable to draw a link between Joran's affect by the American girl that broke off their relationship because he was 'too sweet' and 'not man enough', and his presumed responsibility for Natalee's disappearance?

Actually, Inside Edition only won a Polk Award, and yes, it was after O'Liely left.

ArubaGirl..I am not casting aspersions, but thats an unusual post to me...its almost gang related...is that the undercurrrent of what is going on here...its just that Ive not heard that kind of slant in this "safe" island before....and again...I'm not suggesting anything..just asking..

if you don't want to subject yourself to incompetent foreign investigations you have the option to remain home and take your chances with law enforcement competence here.

I heard earlier today it would be 48 hours, but no explanation. Perhaps they are on the verge of formally accusing some folks?

Actually, Inside Edition only won a Polk Award, and yes, it was after O'Liely left.

Ya'll PD, is that a freudian slip there? o'LIEly :)

I interpret the arrest of the father to mean the cops have no solid evidence. They're reaching... :roll:

You think Aruba is the only country that does that????  I've done some world travelling myself and as much as we b*itch about our LE, I've seen first hand how it works in other places.  It's MHO that this investigation was botched from the beginning, but I think things are moving now.  In this case we should be happy that the suspects can be held without evidence, but it sure would be a nightmare to be held for so long if you are not guilty of a crime.  My boyfriend urinated in an alley when we were in Mexico (about 20 yrs ago) and we were both arrested and spent the night in jail.  Why was I arrested?  Luckily, it was just one night.

I cannot watch him without thinking of the falafel dialogues.

Get real. :roll:

isnt that the normal procedure for all thus far...??? 48hrs...and THEN...eight days...thats their norm I beleive..

was Bill on Inside Edition LOL never watched it, no I mean way way long time ago, the early 1980s before tabloid TV was born.........when even Geraldo was doing real investigative journalism, even Dan Rather......

oh and Maury Povich, now I don't know if Maury Povich ever was a real journalist but man, how can you look yourself in the mirror with that pathetic show he does

Scott,

Dutch people in general are not 'homofobic'. We have a saying here that is;" Leven en laten leven" it means; Live and let live.

I bet the person/s who are involved in NH's disappearance are very nervous about the Texas search guys coming.  The Holloways really know how to keep the heat on.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html

CNN article -- does not explain the 48 hours thing though.

Yes, she said they landed at 11 pm and by the time they got through searching for Joran's last name and address at the casino and bar, had called the police and driven to the v.d. Sloot home it was about 1 am. She said they talked to them until after 3:30 am. (That's Tuesday -- now 24 hours after Natalee left CnCs.)

Nat meeting Joran:
I think I figured out the confusion about when Natalee met Joran (but correct me if I'm wrong). We've heard one to two days as far as the first time they met. Could it be they met on Saturday night 5/28, he showed up at the bar CnCs Sunday 5/29 and they left the bar Monday 1 am 5/30. She if she disappeared Monday 5/30 and she met him 5/28, even though it's technically a day and a half, some might say 2 days, some 1. Does that make sense?

Also, re exams @ the school:
One site of the schools said exams were Friday 6/3-Wed. 6/8. Maybe they changed that to Monday 6/6-wed 6/8. Whatever, Monday 5/30 WAS a school day for Joran, but NOT an exam day. And we aren't even sure how many exams he would have had to take because the schedule says those who had already taken AP exams in May wouldn't have to take final exams and we know he had some AP classes.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?p=28606#28606

Poll.

Do they think the father committed a murder? Or do they think the kids arent going to crack?

Marcia Twitty said that after meeting with the Van Der Sloots, the missing girl's mother told her: "'I still feel like that dad knows something about where Natalee is.'"

"She's in very close contact with officials, both Aruban and FBI," she said. "They talk daily."

it is also possible that they arrested paul to pressure joran or have paul pressure joran because they can't break him

Found picture of dingy boat from Tattoo and 2 pictures of steve.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/303790274/303790274EqCSbY

http://community.webshots.com/photo/303774481/303790315UNbhYn

http://community.webshots.com/photo/303790274/303790274EqCSbY

[/url]

They detain people for 2 days, then re-evaluate, then 8 days and re-evaluate, then 8 days more, etc....not sure the timeframes after that.

I think the prefix Van is always indicative of a Dutch name

No offense, but this sounds like a bunch of psychobabble to me.

Thanks -- we all seem to just remember the 8 days.

its been the same for all of them....they get arrested...they have to go before a judge in 24 hrs to determine if they should be held...then it goes into the eight day periods..its nothing unusual thus far..thats been the cycle

It is legally 6 hours, then they have 48hrs for the prosecution to extend it to the 8 days...at least I think that's how it goes.

Chloe2 wrote:




It is custom chloe in the dutch system it`s a legal way to expend time to interrogate longer. Just as I said they can keep suspects for 116 days .
It has nothing to do with if you are guilty or not

LOL that was my question!!  Yikes....


probably a brief summation will suffice....

I am trying to find a link to this article other than Dan's site. Anyone?

I think I had forgotten about the orignal 2 day thing.

In Greta's appearance on O'Reilly she said that Beth suspected Paulas prior to their meeting...but, her concerns were heightened even more after the meeting.

That's exactly how I understand it.

yes I would say that is the general Dutch philosophy of life, having a Dutch mother and father and aunts and uncles and cousins living in the Netherlands.......they are not totally void however of some prejudices and hang ups

my uncle disowned my cousin and his wife because they adopted black children, so sad, so silly is the position of the rest of the family including my father,  then my cousin and his wife sued my uncle over the family business, and my father sided with the kids, oops so not so live and let live all the time

Dutch people certainly aren't homophobic

But Aruban boys certainly are.

I'm halfway done with the translation

Listening to Jessica Lunsford Dad cry about trying to help others in other US states. oops he just used the sh*t word on NG

I am in tears :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Looks like these were taken in March.  Steve looks like he "enjoys" his job!

LOL  I remember when my uncle would visit from Holland back in the '70's.  He had a pierced ear and wore mascara and lots of people that he was gay.  It didn't get bent out of shape over it but he didn't understand it.

That definitely doesn't look good. Hope they weren't stole to be used for something sinister.

Yes, thanks. I've gotten it. Normal procedure. We can stop posting r.e. this question now.  :wink:

I do not speak Dutch but my take here is Van Der is 'Son Of'

Don't get me started on that case I just read the newest CNN article we may need a new thread somewhere.

didn't they view videotape from the Holiday casino before blowing over to the Vander sloot house and wasn't PVDS also in that casino that night???

and if that is what made BH suspious before even meeting PVDS, yuk too slimey to even contemplate

OK ---- is the father a judge or not??????   All the people on the news keep calling him a judge....Natalees stepdad interupted Nancy Grace and told her he wasnt.  I didn't think he was either.  But it's annoying me that they keep calling him a judge if he really isnt!  Help me...is he or isnt he?

He's technically NOT a judge, but he calls himself a judge.  He's a judge in training and a former prosecutor.

I have read that he's a 'judge in training' who hears a few cases a week.

Arubagirl posted earlier that he definitely is NOT a judge.  :)

I don't know if he is a judge or not but I do know he is a suspect in a murder/kidnapping/disappearance investigation and right now thats good enough for me.

I don't see a dingy! What am I missing?

Ijust heard onN ancy grace that he is in the early stages of judgeship.

Sounds like a student teacher kind of thing.

I guess he's a "judge in training" that likes to party with the young crowd at casinos?  He's kind of creepy.

aruba girl:  are you translating this?  if not I will.  pm me.

cancon wrote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
HannieC wrote:
Scott,

Dutch people in general are not 'homofobic'. We have a saying here that is;" Leven en laten leven" it means; Live and let live.





Yes sure there are prejudice people, I think you have them everywere
But in general the 'dutch'people are very liberal and that is why we have so many misunderstandings with some american people on what is right and/or wrong. But that liberal thing has nothing to do with crimesuspects for that effect. We also think if you do the crime, pay the time( or something like that).

Me either

I think that's right. Literally just "of," if I'm not mistaken.

does any one think it alittle funny that dutch-bag was surpost to be home in bed  at 11 on sunday  but monday  when they was looking for natelee he was out past 1

Where did I mention DUTCH people in my previous post?  I referenced specifically 'ARUBAN boys'.  I've been to Amsterdam a number of times, and it's obviously one of the more tolerant, gay-friendly cities I've visited.

It just struck me as extremely odd that Anita would point out that an American girlfriend dumped her son because he was 'too sweet' or not man enough for her.

The vitriol and anger that boiled within Joran as a result of that could provide a great deal of insight into what would cause a 17-year old boy with a bright future ahead, to act so violently or irrational.

Aruba girl,

I am sure it is the same for visitors and residents.  I just don't think a legal system where the prosecutor, the judge and the supposed defense attorneys are just three stooge inquisitior, is something I want to be exposed to.  It seems to me that the defense attorney is not an advocate for the suspected, but a rubber stamp for the system.  Why even have a defense attorney who does not tell his client to keep his mouth shut?

Given enough time just about anyone can be encouraged to "confess".   Maybe it will turn out that Joran et.al., are guilty and can lead the officials to the body.  Maybe they will "confess", but not know where the body is or "confess" and say they dumped her at sea, and then nobody will have any confidence that the "confessions" are anything but forced.

There are flaws in the US system also, but at least in principle, one is entitled to the advice of a defense attorney immediately, and any defense attorney will refuse to allow his client to be interrogated.  From what I hear the Aruba system is closer to inquisition than questioning.  

Nobody wants a conviction of an innocent and nobody wants the guilty to go free.  This is all yet to be known, but I for one have no confidence in what I have seen thus far.

Let's hope we don't need a new thread for those 3 little boys missing in NJ.

Why is Geraldo back???? WHY?????????????????????????????

An issue that would hamper this but I am not sure how it is possible.

If JVDS and PVDS "know" that no body can be found. Wouldn't they just "stand up to the interrogation" like paulus said?

It is an incomplete thought I may come back to it later.

Sorry..here is the dingy pic.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/303774481/303790129keaFOC

I can't see Joran getting Natalie off the beach and into a car.  I think he took her to his house.  We have no proof that his father was home that night - and we know his mother wasn't.

As in Van Der A Beach?  :lol:

On MSNBC the woman who had worked with him I think it was said, that he had gone thru law school and since judges are not elected, there is a long process they have to go thru, ( I guess like an apprentice thing) and he was in that process. But since he was not done he was NOT a judge

yes Van mean "of"

As you would the Duchess of York, or William of Orange

like we have a friend whose last name is Van Nieuwenhuizen

that means Of the New House,

I heard he was a "judge in training" but that he did judge some minor cases. Too bad Joran cant ask for PVDS to be his judge!  :lol:

Looks more like a raft to me?

Some here have posted that they think pvds reported jvds was at a casino as a diversionary tactic to get people away from his house.  When they all arrived at the casino jvds call his dad and said he was home.

People in Holland are very tolerant and open. There is even a "HOMOMONUMET" Dedicated all people opressed for their sexual pref. I have a picture of it.......GOTTA LOVE IT!  :wink:

is that in a Van By Der River

yes and Van der Sloot means "of the ditch"
interesting huh?

ORANJESTAD — Plaatsvervangend lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba, Paul van der Sloot, vader van Joran van der Sloot (17), is vanmiddag iets na twee uur lokale tijd gearresteerd. Zo bevestigt politiewoordvoerder Jan van der Straten. Hij wordt in verband gebracht met de verdwijning op Aruba van Natalee Holloway. De vader was de afgelopen dagen al eerder door de politie ondervraagd. Ook mocht hij zijn zoon – die nu twee weken vast zit – niet bezoeken in de gevangenis.

Temporary member of the Common Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, Paul van der Sloot [same Court is now denying that he is a member, by the way], father of Joran van der Sloot (17), has been arrested today a little over 2 pm local time. This has been confirmed by police spokesperson, Jan van der Straten. He is being linked to the disappearance on Aruba of Natalee Holloway. The father was already questioned the last few days by the police. He was also not allowed to see his son-who has now been detaned for two weeks-in jail.

De familie van Natalee Holloway heeft de beloning voor de gouden tip die leidt tot Natalees veilige terugkeer verhoogd tot 150.000 dollar. Eerder werd er 35.000 dollar uitgeloofd, later werd dat verhoogd tot 50.000 dollar. Voor de beloning is intussen een speciale Reward and Recovery Trust gevormd bij de Amsouth Bank in Birmingham, Alabama.

The family of Natalee Hollow has increased the rewared for the golden tip that leads to Natalee's safe return to 150.000 dollars. Earlier a reward of 35.000 dollars had been offered, later that was increased to 50.0000 dollars. A special Reward and Recovery Trust was formed for the reward by the Amsouth Bank in Birmingham, Alabama.


VERSCHILLENDE VERSIES

Volgens de politie verandert de zeventienjarige verdachte Joran van der Sloot steeds zijn versie van wat er op de avond van Natalee Holloways verdwijning gebeurde. De politie verhoort de vier vastzittende verdachten regelmatig en zegt daarnaast ook nog steeds getuigen te verhoren. Wat de echte toedracht is en wat er met de Amerikaanse scholiere is gebeurd, blijft echter nog steeds gissen.

DIFFERENT VERSIONS

According to the police 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot keeps changing his version of what happened on the night that the disapperance of Natalee Holloway occured. The police regulary interrogates the four detained supsects and additionally says that there are still witnesses to interrogate. What the true story is and what happened with the American schoolgirl, is still guesswork.

Het verhoor van de verdachte jongemannen gebeurt meestal in koppels van twee agenten. Ook worden er confrontaties gehouden, waarbij twee of meer verdachten aanwezig zijn en met elkaars tegengestelde versies worden geconfronteerd.

The interrogation of the suspected young men usually occurs in teams of two agents. Confrontatations are also held, where two or more suspects are present and are confronted with their opposing stories.

Het is niet de eerste keer dat Van der Sloot zijn versie van het verhaal verandert. In eerste instantie vertelden alle drie de jongens, toen nog als getuigen, aan de politie dat zij met Holloway naar de vuurtoren zijn gereden en naar Arashi en haar daarna bij het Holiday Inn hebben afgezet. Dit verhaal veranderde toen zij werden aangehouden. Holloway en Van der Sloot zouden bij de Fisherman’s Huts zijn afgezet en de twee broers Satish en Deepak Kalpoe zouden daarna naar huis zijn gegaan.

This is not the first time that van der Sloot changes his version of the story. In the first place all three boys, then still witnesses, told the police that they drove with Holloway to the lighthouse and then to Arashi and dropped her afterwards at the Holiday Inn. This story changed when they were detained. Holloway and van der Sloot alllegedly would have been dropped off at Fisherman's Huts and the two brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpe allegedly would have gone home.



KLACHTEN ADVOCATEN

Advocaten klagen ondertussen dat zij niet alle stukken krijgen. Rudy Oomen, advocaat van Deepak Kalpoe: “Men doet er alles aan om mij het werken zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken. Ik moet steeds druk uitoefenen en dreigen met een procedure om stukken te krijgen.” Ook advocaat Anthony Carlo, die samen met Ariean de Bie en Richie Kock de 17-jarige Joran van der Sloot verdedigt, bevestigt dit beeld. Het advocatenteam heeft een verzoek ingediend om bij de verhoren van Van der Sloot aanwezig te mogen zijn. Carlo: “Volgens het Wetboek van Strafvordering mag de verdediging bij de verhoren aanwezig zijn nadat de verdachte door de rechter-commissaris is gehoord.” De rechter-commissaris interpreteert dit artikel echter anders. Het verzoek werd gisteren door de rechter-commissaris afgewezen.

COMPLAINTS BY LAWYERS

In the meantime lawyers are complaining that they are not getting all documents. Rudy Oomen, lawyer of Deepak Kalpoe: Everything is being done to make my work as difficult as possible. I have to constantly put pressure and threaten with court cases to get the documents. Also Anthony Carlo, who defends 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot together with Arieaan de Bie and Richie Kock, confirms this view. The lawyer team has entered a request to be present at the interrogation of van der Sloot.  Carlo:" According to the Book of Criminal Law is the defense allowed to be present at the interrogation after the suspect has been interrogated by the Judge of Instructions". The Judge of Instructions, however, interpreted this article differently. The request has been denied yesterday by the Judge of Instructions.

De vader van Joran mag zijn zoon al een aantal dagen niet meer bezoeken, nadat een bezwaarschriftprocedure hierover in eerste instantie in het voordeel van de vader was gewonnen. Paul van der Sloot gaat tegen deze beslissing van de rechter-commissaris niet in hoger beroep, ook al zou hij zijn minderjarige zoon graag bezoeken. Advocaat Carlo: “Hij wil niet dat zijn positie de aandacht afleidt van de zaak.”


The father of Joran isn't allowed to visit his son for a few days already, after a courtcase  about this issue had been won in favor of the father. Paul van der Sloot is not going to appeal this decision of the judge of instructions, even though he would love to visit his underage son. Lawyer Carlo: "He doesn't want that his position would detract attention from this case."

De drie jonge verdachten worden waarschijnlijk morgen weer voor de rechter-commissaris geleid. Het OM zal dan om verlenging van hun bewaring vragen. Van de vierde verdachte, de 26-jarige dj Steve Croes, loopt de inverzekeringstelling zondag af. Als het OM hem langer vast zal willen houden zal het verzoek tot ‘inbewaringstelling’ waarschijnlijk ook morgen worden voorgelegd aan de rechter-commissaris. Rechter Bob Wit zal niet degene zijn die deze rol vervult, aangezien hij deze week is begonnen met zijn nieuwe taak als rechter aan het Caribbean Court of Justice in Trinidad.

The three young suspects will probably be brought before the judge of instructions tomorrow. The JD will then ask again for prolonging of their detention. On the fourth suspect, 26-year-old dj Seve Croes, the detention period will expire Sunday. If the JD wants to keep him detained longer, then the petition to "iplace in custody" [my mom is getting the dictionary, hold on] will also be probably be put to the judge of instructions tomorrow. Judge Bob Wit will not be the one who is in charge of this role, seeing that he has just started this week with his new job as judge on the Caribbean Court of Justice in Trinidad.

There are prob. some mistakes, sorry. Perhaps someone else could help translating

That is a tube you stick behind a boat for pleasure use.(like waterskiing) LOL, that is no dinghy.

Neil--

I think it can be a good system, when it's done right, or get really fouled up when it's not. Same as common law in U.S.

One advantage it might have: It's "inquisitorial," rather than "adversarial."

The adversarial nature of common law, in my opinion, is what causes people who can afford better lawyers to get their way more often. That's probably the biggest weakness of common law. But we probably do other things better than civil law. It's sort of a trade off.

The problem is not really with either system, which are both ancient systems that have worked for a long time. It's the people who have to run it.

I don't know what to think about his title. Even the former Asst. DA and now defense attorney in Aruba said he was a judge.  I don't think we have a point of truth about this.

It crossed my mind as I wrote my post but 'beach' wasn't quite the way I spelled it.

Some one needs to have geraldo read the scaredmonkeys.com forum. He has it all wrong.

Funny.

I think "Van der Sloot" literally translates "of the ditch."

Who's Grandpa is this?

http://community.webshots.com/photo/303788721/303788721DYbGof

Are you serious??  That just made my stomach turn.

S word again? That poor guy.  :cry:  :cry:

 

not a student teacher at all.  typical ignorant american news media they yak on about the guy for weeks and can't figure out basic facts like what he is.  I posted his appointment decree on here a week ago.  Maybe it is because its in a foreign language and in a foreign country xenophobes that we are.  he has a law degree, meester in rechten.  the has been a prosecutor on the island and now he is a substitute judge.  some dumbkopf woman reporter on fox was braying the other day that "he is not even a lawyer let alone a judge" and suddenly he is now a judge on fox because that makes his arrest more interesting.  I don't know what you have to do to be a full judge but he is a lawyer and a long time employee of the aruba (read dutch) judicial system  mondo cane

Arubagirl, thank you very much!

From what I've been given to understand, he was studying to become a judge, and, as a justice official, occasionally got to "fill in" on cases, where he was needed. Sort of on the job training I guess. Very different from the U.S., were all judges are either appointed or elected.

Thanks Arubagirl!

I think "van der" means "of the".  Van Der Sloot means "of the ditch," literally--that's what the online translator always says when I put some of the articles through it, lol.  Anyway, the "der" is the article, like "le or les" in French.

Okay, listening to O'Reilly about JL.  Definately off the chart!!

ooh KL you've hit on something there, very cosmic man

I knew the word was not a high brow word and correct me if I am wrong, are the media saying it wrong, it  Sloot, that's a long o not an oo sound

like Slote, as in boat, not Sloot, as in loot

[my parents met in Canada and come from different regions of Holland, my mother is Friese so my father says she doesn't speak Dutch, Friese is an old Saxon dialect actually, way back when, so they never spoke Dutch at home except when rellys are over, I can now understand more than I can speak, I tried to teach it to myself, you have to be immersed I think to learn any language right, I'd love to speak it, I can roll my r's and I do a great gutteral g  ]

Who do we have on the lurker bar?  Anyone going to invite them into the house?

The media is saying it wrong.

When Greta interviewed him and his wife he said he was....black robe and all. Maybe in his head....??? LOL But we all know whatever he was he is no longer!

My stomach is turning over what O'Liely just reported on Fox about Jessica Lunsford.   :cry:

As in Van Der A Beach?

is that in a Van By Der River

LOL!!!  :lol:

And "dumbkopf" literally translates "dumbhead."

Whereas, we Americans talk about "dumbass reporters."

Interesting...So much the same, and yet so different.

Cancon, Fries is a hard language. I heard some songs in Fries and I can understand maybe every other word.

Which media Arubagirl?

Ben wrote:



Ohhh no that`s what i`ve been afraid of which I early mentioned!!

No were looking for the grandparents................ jeeezzz OMG

Don`t say I told you guys! :shock:

in order to try and clean up evidence is the suggestion.......ew, what if Nat's body was in that boy's apartment when the parents arrived, no they couldn't be that stupid, but then again

oh here is a question, when they all went to look for Joran did a cop stay at the house, did anyone, perhaps someone should have?

 

this is more or less the same leegal system in efffect in the europe and latin america.

sorry I am blonde LOL  :oops:

Which of the following did Joran Van Der Sloot do?
Killed Natalee    
  26%  [ 4 ]
Accidental death but he knew    
  60%  [ 9 ]
He has no knowledge of what happened after he left the beach.    
  13%  [ 2 ]
 
Current poll results.

HUH????? :shock:

hay arubagirl you remember talking the KIA prison  I saw a guy on fox talking  about it He said that they just open up a new wing in the prison he also said it was as nice as any prison in the USA  is that true?

How likely is it, that someone could drag a body onto a Dinghy without being noticed? Meaning... are the beaches usually deserted at 3 a.m. or are  there  tourists fooling around on the beach at this time?

Absolut, I was trying to finish reading before I said this but, that statement was THE most disturbing part of the interview...he kept saying, I hope he stands up(to questioning) he said it more than once, then Greta stopped the tape(until tonite I think)

"I Hope He Stands Up!" I bet he does.

ironic, considering he should be saying,"i hope he stands up" and tells the truth!  :( whatever the truth may be.

yes, I learned several days ago from a friend and GVS's name means of sister. This from someone ( me) whose surname means "head of a goat" in my heritage language.

Thank you SO MUCH for translating.   :D

Ok 1 last time, how far in miles or time by foot is it from Mariott to VDS house?

Thanks!  That's very interesting.

 he is a lawyer, prosecutor and substitute judge like he fills in if a judge is on vacation or indisposed.

Kacky...I feel your pain...I've been crying my eyes out, too.  So sad.  Very hard for us to hear...cannot imagine what it must be like for Mark Lunsford.  God Bless that family.

Natalee's mom just said she knows the these guys "kidnapped" her daughter.


more on this interview later........... :roll:

Nice as any prison in the U.S.A? That's still not saying much.

Juvenal,

I think that in inquisition is to the advantage of the government, and historically inquisitions have resulted in confessions.

If we are interested in freedom and justice, then I think we need to understand first that government is the most incompetent form of organization known, and secondly that government is the most dangerous form of organization known.

Don't we want innocent people to be safe from the power of government? How is that possible if we are supposed to trust in beaurecrats to reach the conclusion that one is innocent or guilty? (Not likely, thank you.)

Question:  Latest rumor floating around is that the VdS house is now boarded up. Where is Anita VdS and why would they all board up and leave the house?

Larry King doing Aruba now ...

Natalee's father saying she could be off the island

I realize that *we* the public don't need to know what medication it was that Natalee needed and had left behind in her pre-packed luggage in her hotel room, so I don't expect us to have an answer on that.

However, I would be really curious if it was something like asthma meds or an inhaler; or epileptic meds; or cold/sinus meds; or antihistamines for allergies; anything that would have put her in a more vulnerable position of danger than the normal teen on a vacation outing.

Being on the beach in the night air and humidity or being exposed to an allergen of some kind or alcohol being a factor (I have in my notes that the bartender told someone he served Nat 4-5 vodka drinks that night--anyone know where that news item came from or if it's true?) -- it's possible that she might have been having some kind of reaction that freaked Joran out and he may have thought she was dying or dead when she wasn't.

Just thinking out loud here about the detail we don't know.

littletxlady, love that avatar.  It's mesmerizing how it goes around, and around and around....

APS: RIJKSMINISTERRAAD: Benoemingen Gemeenschappelijk Hof van......
20.12.2002 / 17:09 / Rubriek: Binnenland / Organisatie: Rvd/dg
Origineel persbericht.


Ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties

Persbericht Rijksministerraad

20 december 2002



BENOEMINGEN GEMEENSCHAPPELIJK HOF VAN JUSTITIE VAN DE NEDERLANDSE ANTILLEN EN ARUBA


De Rijksministerraad heeft op voorstel van minister Remkes van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties ingestemd met een tweetal benoemingen.


De heer mr. G.E.M. Polkamp (52) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. Momenteel is de heer Polkamp plaatsvervangend lid van het Hof. De benoeming gaat in op 1 januari 2003.


De heer mr. P.A.P.J. van der Sloot (50) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot plaatsvervangend lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. De heer van der Sloot is nu werkzaam als kabinetschef bij de procureur-generaal van Aruba. De benoeming gaat in op 1 januari 2003 voor een periode van drie jaar.


RVD, 20.12.2002



ANP Pers Support, de redactie van het ANP is niet verantwoordelijk voor de inhoud.



Laatste persberichten van: Rvd/dg

you have to say that or succumb to the alternative. I think that is wishful thinking.

I didn't even try to learn it, except a few sayings my mother would say to us as kids, like when she wanted to get us to bed....

I try to teach myself proper Dutch, but I haven't gotten too far, but I notice when i watch a Dutch movie with English subtitles, I understand more than I think I would, anyone see the movie where the father kidnaps a record executive to get his daughter a big break, that's funny, my fav dutch movie however is The Fourth Man with Jeroen Krabbe,

most of my mom's family came to Canada, most of my dad's family is still in the Netherlands and actually my Dad's people come from Ede which is near Arnhem which is where Joran's brother says on his tickle site is where they come from, freaky........

in fact, Mrs. VanDerSloot, looks like about half of my aunts,

I don't know, mehill, I've only been in the old wing. And that one is horrible.

I missed it.  Will you fill us in?

That's just wrong on sooooooo many levels!

 :shock:

ANOTHER REASON TO QUESTION THE PARENTS?

I could be wrong but boarded up could just mean like hurricane ready.

She may have left for Holland with police approval.

Just to figure out whether it could have been accidental.

no I think the guy was saying it is a nice prison much nicer than most US prisons, esp the new wing

She also said, "and hopefully not raped and murdered".

arubagirl, IYO... what are the odds that someone could carry a body from either a car or the Marriot Beach to a dingy(either on the beach or in the water) without being noticed?

With her husband and son in jail I assume she took her younger son and went to stay with family or friends.  I think anyone would do something similar

and certainly the nicest in the Caribbean

you no want to be in a Jamaican or Haitan or DR prison mon

is von dutch a german word?


...anyone find it odd that if PAPASloot was intelligent enough to actually orchestrate and possibly participate in this ordeal, that he would be dumb enough to then  hang himself with his interviews with media, etc??

With the unfolding events, as a defense mechanism, I think they're holding on to that implausible theory as a last bastion of hope.

What channel? Fox, msnbc or cnn?

You might be right that common law keeps the concepts of "law" and "government" seperate better than does civil law (and they are two different things). That would definitely be an advantage of common law.

I agree with you. I prefer common law. I'm just saying that common law does have its weaknesses, and Michael Jackson being able to pay Mesereau to get him off the hook is one of those.

Or, if you prefer, OJ could pony up the cash for Johnnie C. And he walked.

Also, the "inquisition" is not the same as the "Spanish Inquisition" of the 16th century. All it means is that you have a panel of judges who examine plaintiff/defendant/witnesses. They don't torture people, as a general practice, to get confessions, anymore.

ah I believe Von is the German equivalent of Van

Thank You, one of my favs too.

I am interested in learning this too

fox interview starting hsortly.

Thanks for that correction, from what I had read he wasn't a lawyer and didn't have to be on to become a judge.  So his profession is that of a lawyer?

LTL....what??? More info please???   THANK YOU!

My heart goes really out for natalee`s mom and family, but on the otherhand let`s be objective about it all. Wouldn`t you say and feel the same? These guys or guy are "supposedly"  are the last one(s) that see natalee. We don`t know jack, lyers or not! I think there are a lot of kids who in the same situation would react the same with lies, doesn`t make it right I totally agree, makes them not killers also!! But what if you hear about a girl missing and you were the last ( supposedly) person who see her?? And don`t forget they can look like adults , but they aren`t!!

FOX

Aruba is not in the hurricane belt.

re: boarded up house - a reporter this morning when the PVDS arrest was announced mentioned that the (the reporter - sorry cannot remember which network) went to the house this morning and it was closed up and the dogs were gone then said that Anita and Paul were not there. I think he said Anita was visiting Joran and when she and Paul were driving after, a friend of theirs called them and said there were cops all around the house so they drove straight to the police station and Paul turned himself in. Anita just said the same on tape on Larry King.

Why FOX of course, sorry I am not trying to start anything. :)

It's coming up on Fox.

GVS reported this on Fox about the time the news of dad's arrest was released. GVS said she had rumors of the arrest and had gone out to the house only to find it boarded up.

The realm council of ministers on proposal of minister Remkes of internal matter and kingdom relations with a pair appointments has agreed. The lord Mr. G.E.M. Polkamp (52) are proposed for appointment to member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. At present Mr Polkamp deputy member of the court is. The appointment discusses 1 January 2003. The lord Mr. P.A.P.J. of of the ditch (50) is proposed for appointment to deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. The lord of of the ditch is now operative as a principal private secretary at the Procurator-General of Aruba. The appointment discusses 1 January 2003 for a period of three years.

Heartache, if 1) the captain knew what he was doing (Croes was a DJ, not a captain) 2) If the coast guard was busy elsewhere 3) if there were no people at the beach, there is a good chance.

But why go to all that trouble?

Larry King interviews are interesting - or at least a new set of talking heads.

is European law based on the Napoleonic Code which is once charged you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent??

that is tough because of course the state has way more resources than the average defendant, guys like MJ excepted of course.........

No way. She would not abandon her husband and kid. Though she may send her two younger sons to Holland to spend time with relatives and get them out of the country. Maybe she's staying at someone else's home. Maybe staying in the house alone with the media calling and dropping by was freaking her out.

Fox new channel.

They're saying that Jessica was kept alive for 3 days in his (the perp's)house while 3 other people were also in the house witnessing it all.  She was then buried alive in garbage bags.  Something about the police botched the investigation.  Didn't hear much past that.  I was in tears.  Let's just hope the same didn't happen to NH - that she was alive in their house when the police/BHT, etc. came to the VDS house that night.
This is all too much to handle.  White wine spritzers are helping!

She didn't seem like someone who would leave her son and husband in jail and go away. Seems so steadfast and loyal.  That's kind of odd if she did.

Actually, Greta said when she arrived at the VDS house this morning, it was boarded up, with only one dog in site. They left, thinking they ran, or were trying to hide from Greta. Greta returned later, and even the dog was gone this time, that is when she assumed the police must have them.
My question is, why did they board the house, and what exactly did Greta mean by that?

Trust me, you really do not want to know.

I too think that it is wishful thinking.  I do not believe that NH is alive.  That is just my humble opinion.  I would love to be proven wrong.  I don't believe any of this was planned, however.  I think illicit drugs were given to her without her knowledge and she got sick and aspirated.  I think JVS freaked at that point and involved the Kalpoe brothers and his father.  What still bothers me is IF the Kalpoes only helped him dispose of the body, why would they have not broken by now and just said that they were accessories and that Joran was the culprit?  Friendship only goes so far.  I would just think that by now ONE of those boys would have pointed the finger at another and said "he did it and here's how".  All I have heard is differing stories.  Just thinking out loud here and trying to make sense of all this.  In any event, I truly hope Natalee's family finds her so they can take her home and have at least some form of closure.

Which of the following did Joran Van Der Sloot do?
Killed Natalee    
  31%  [ 7 ]
Accidental death but he knew    
  54%  [ 12 ]
He has no knowledge of what happened after he left the beach.    
  13%  [ 3 ]
 
Total Votes : 22

Wow........finally CNN international report on it... pff after 2 weeks

I`ll be right back ... :wink:


I`ve put my videorecorder on. You guys have news sooner :)

Arubagirl   Do you think they are any closer to finding natelee?

Probably worried about Human Hurrricane hitting it. This is so sad.

LOL @ "the lord of the ditch." It made more sense in Dutch!

Greta referred to it as "closed up" and "boarded up" when they went there this morning first thing.  Then she said she suspects they knew he was going to be arrested and were in a different location to avoid the cameras.

Not sure if that's what happened, or not.

I saw a news photo and it was "boarded up" in the sense that the big outdoor shutters were all closed over the windows.

And the answer would be :::bing! bing! bing!::: SCOTT PETERSON!

Gee, I was at the doctors all day got home, and saw scared monkeys on CNN.  Thought they might read one of my posts!!!
Hello all!!!!!!!!!!! :D

*OFF TOPIC*
Oh, BLESS Jessica's little heart.  She must have been so terrified!  Why on earth aren't the other people being charged with accessory to the crime or anything?  This case is pitiful.  It breaks my heart.....I PRAY Natalee is alive.  Oh, and vodka tonics are helping me along...

Cancon
my understanding is yes, and that is what is driving some crazy

http://www.arubatravelinfo.com/maps/arubabeachmap.jpg

id say approx 1 mile! little less possibly

Think about it. People there are going to be so mad at what was brought on them. It sounds like anticipation of a Human Hurricane because something is about to be found. IMO

ja that makes sense the dutch word for sister is zuster and zusteren would be plural and somewhere down the line the Z got changed to an S makes sense because our last name is a German name that was Dutchified and when I went to Aruba, the customs guards got a good laugh....

Hey Shellbell - no laptop at the docs?

Hope the news was good!

Ah ha. I was thinking boards over the windows. Threw me for a loop.

Thanks!!

Sorry if this was asked before but does anyone know if I could obtain one of the prayer cards and wrist bands that Beth is passing out?  I would love to make a donation and possibly receive these items.  I would like to have these items to show support from the Chicago, Il area, where I live.

Also, Are there other donation opportunities other than the AmSouth fund?

icey

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Here is the donation info for the AmSouth Holloway fund:

How to support the Holloway/Twitty family
A trust fund has been set up to support Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty, who has pledged to stay in Aruba until her daughter is found.

Contributions may be made at any AmSouth Bank, or by mail to:

    Natalee Holloway Trust
    AmSouth Bank
    P.O. Box 11426
    Birmingham, AL 35202

Please note on your check that the donation is for the search effort.

No, it sucked!!!!!  I never want to go through that again.  They filled me with all kinds of nuclear meds.  I find out the results hopefully tomorrow.  Thanks for asking!!!

Probably hiding from greta

Interesting. I wonder if she's having to stay somewhere else because people are hounding her especially since she still ahs two young boys.

Yeah, same basic thing, cancon, except "Napoleonic Code" just applies to French-speaking countries: Louisiana in U.S.A. and, I assume, Quebec.

I could be wrong, but I think Louisiana has code law (as opposed to common law), but with adversarial courtroom procedure.

If anyone's a lawyer and/or has done jail time in Louisiana, they might be able to correct if me if I'm wrong.  :wink:

I bet Greta has some securtiy following her!!!!

The two surinamese brothers are Hindu...their religion does not allow them to touch a dead body.  If she indeed died of accidental causes, the two Kalpoe brothers would not have been involved.

    Most of the Continent follows the Napoleonic Code: guilty until proven innocent. According to a friend of mine who lived and worked in France, they think our system is unfair to the defendant. And some Germans still object to the fact that the Nuremburg Trials were held under the U.S. system.

That seems more logical than leaving the country. Hope she does just that to avoid the media onslaught and whatever else people do without thinking clearly.  I hope she's not worried about anything even more sinister if there are other people involved.

white wine spritzers are fine and all but i think it would be good to pray for natalee right about now

I had that same news item about Lord of the Ditch's appointment and it goes on to say that it's for a 3-year term that started Jan 2003.

He is a "secretary" to the Attorney-General, which to me just says "government official."  He said himself that he was being allowed to hear a few cases per month until he might be appointed as a judge.

To me, that's a magistrate.  Sort of like a justice of the peace or something--not anything that requires a law degree.  I know the OP found another article that stated in Dutch that the Lord of the Ditch has a law degree, but I haven't found that one myself.

and yet how does Jacques Chirac always allude criminal charges?

She could perhaps, maybe escourting the two young boys to back home in the Netherlands to stay with relatives for the summer. Most likely safer and sheltered there.

I sincerely hope that she has arranged for her other children, and elders, if there are any, to go for a private visit with friends or family far from Aruba, and not in the Netherlands or the US.

Dave Holliway said FBI behind the scenes are telling them that the Arubans are doing a good job.

bing bing wrong
scott peterson did not hang himself by participating in media interviews

CaliGirl wrote:




Hi ((Cali)),

Especially if you`re innocent . This proves nothing who`s in jail under dutch law, pfff I`m getting tired to explain this. I`m glad you understand it cali how dutch law works.

I had read that but didn't think enough of it to post it. Is that the same for all Hindu's or are there splittered groups and are we sure they are religious?

Believe me, I am.

I know what you mean, I went thru something similar when I entered the country of my people's origin!  Head of a goat, my better half has not let me live that down.   My name actually was Polish then became Norwegianized, then Germanized, then Americanized all with in 6 months! I couldn' t have a nice English name that still carrys it's original meaning like hubby..........

I took it as a joke.  I think most of us on this site have been praying consistently for Natalee, as well as her family, community, and the Aruban community.

I can't beleive that Dutch's boys Father would not come forward. As a parent he is a coward. He needs to walk in Natalee's parents shoes. Karma is a bitch.
 I will be interested to see if he helped aide them or if he just had info.

Wire article on statement of accused killer of Lunsford.  Not pretty.  If statement true, police definitely missed an opportunity to save her.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-23-lunsford_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

I don't know about all of Hindu groups or beliefs.  I was only told this specifically about the brothers from investigations on the island.  That is all i know.

actually Juvenal you are correct about Quebec, they do have civil law but the Criminal Code of Canada and the Charter of Rights would supersede it so Quebec criminal law would be the same as everywhere else in Canada, which includes the presumption of innocence

FYI->The exclusive with Natalee's mother is coming up on Fox, hopefully :D

The K's said on their web pages that they are Hindu, but it appears they currently worshipped at the feet of the Mah-Joran-i.

I've read True Crime books forever you would be amazed

Good evening all........I can't believe it, I left to go walk and have dinner with friends and came back to thread 20 on page 20 something, when I left we were still on thread 19, page 45.  Lots to talk about, I will catch up as fast as I can, no need for y'all to rehash everything.

((Hannie)))

I know you are! It's good of you to hang in there with it, I know I get frustrated, and today has been my breaking day with so much going in the news etc.

I put too much emotion into this, thinking too much like a mother perhaps. If I knew something hardcore and definate, I think I would not feel so torn up.

How can that piece of crap plead not guilty after saying that crap. The "S" was in there and then some "F" words to. Like I said I can't handle that case.

the asshole fed her hamburger meat to keep her alive, and let her see the search on TV. The last night he raped her and there was blood. then he dug the hole put her in the bag and buried her. Said she did not cry. Asshole wonders how the search dogs missed her, liked he blamed them for her dying, since she could have lived if they had found her in time. :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Interesting about the religious aspect.  Personally, I don't think the brothers had anything to do with Natalee's disappearance.  It makes no sense that the brothers stayed with Joran and Natalee in a romantic situation. It's just not logical.  

They obviously were part of an early cover-up.  It is possible Depak came back to help Joran.  But, that still makes no sense to me.  I really doubt the brothers would be part of a cover-up to protect Joran if a death was part of the equation.

Actually, soon after Lacy's disappearance, he got caught in a lie when being interviewd by Gloria Gomez.  She asked him if Lacy knew about his affair with Amber, and he said yes.  When GG pressed him about when he told Lacy, he stumbled and got tongue-tied, and then told her he was there to discuss Lacy's disappearance.  So, in my opinion, he did hang himself by talking with the media.

Not all Chrstians act upon there bible......Not all Muslims act upon there Koran... and so on..........

I think it`s has to do were you brought up in what country.

The Kalpoes' mother said they were good Hindu boys and showed the tv cameras where they pray. A lot of the shift in attitude today (and possibly the arrest of PVDS) seems tied to the Kalpoes saying they were covering for Joran. They may have been - or they may be covering for themselves - or they may know nothing. as usual - all hearsay

All the parents on all sides are sure they have good kids.

BEEP WRONG ANSWER
That's exactly what he did!

Its on Fox right now.

exactly, he is more like a JP or magistrate and I don't think Dutch judges need a law degree,  I know JP's in Canada don't need em and at one time judges at the provincial court or small claims court didn't need to be lawyers either, the toughest judge in provincial criminal court in London Ont was a former RCMP officer.......

If the brothers are innocent, then why are they lying. Why why why?

Look, I may be scared when I see the cops, but I'd be scared into telling the truth.

Does them gambling or drinking say anything about their beliefs or is that ok in the hindu religion (i have no idea) looking for answers they are not currently in my equation.

That truly makes me sick.  I would really appreciate not hearing any more graphic details about that case in SM.  I have been avoiding things like that.  If Natalee is alive, which I can only pray for, I can't stomach the thought of what could be happening.  I'm sure others must agree.

What does the Hindu religion say about lying to police? Not saying I know what they did, but I don't think you can go by a person's religion to determine what they did or didn't take part in.

I agree absolut. Just because they say they are Hindu doesn't mean they are practicing.
I am Christian but I definately will be honest and say I haven't been practicing lately i.e. like when I went off on Brenda jk lol

he hung himself when he killed his wife and baby, then placed himself where they were found without being asked. dummy--scott p not you

First a guy has to get a law degree, then be a prosecution or defense attorney for at least 5 years, then if they are selected they go to the RAIO opleiding, if they pass, then they become a judge.

Dutch judges have law degrees.

And what about Diane Sawyers? :shock:

right I forgot-------------the perfect glorious marriage while he was slamming someone else

Well, are we all ready for Gretta tonight?   :D

holy shit....heavy interview with BHT,what an awesome, spiritualy strong woman

ready.  i was born ready.

OMG! Beth is reading on my page!!!!!!! WOW!

Whoa...is anyone watching the interview with Beth Twitty on Fox?

She just said she believes Natalee is being held by others and is alive on the island!!!  WTF????

HUH?

I am actually having a hard time watching this.  It's the circles under her eyes that get me.

Can you fill me in?  I don't get the TV back from my kids until 9.   :D

Lets keep this thread on topic to Natalee's case.

she said she knows her daughter was kiddnapped and she thinks shes on the island..

BTH on H&C now - very different BTH from the smiling lady with Greta - she said today she could not get up. It's hard to watch since she is starting to break down in a way she hasn't before in public.

here is my theory, your best friend and perhaps leader of your group tells you, I left Natalee on the beach, we had an argument now she is missing and now the cops are going to blame us, I swear I did not hurt that girl, if we stick together we'll be fine, my dad says so

so maybe they figure right we believe Joran he is our friend we don't want to get into trouble so we'll go along with his story

when the brothers realize it isn't going to be fine, they tell the truth

the other scenario is Joran, not so sweet, says to the brothers look I didn't kill that girl and they are going to blame me, she was last seen with all of us, so if you don't go along with this story I'm going to point the finger at you, my dad's got connections, they believe me not you or maybe he had some other blackmailable info on the Kalpo brothers

now I think that isn't likely the case, that the brothers did indeed have a part in the coverup or at least Deepak did

It's on right now? What channel?

huh?

She says the "others" she wants arrested are the ones holding her daughter on the island!!!!  WHERE DID THIS COME FROM???

Greta is going to get journalist of the year I swear.  She put Geraldo in the dirt.

WHAT IN THE HELL?

I was just saying that she is looking like she isn't sleeping or eating well.  I hope this ends for her soon.   But, I am really impressed with her persistence!

You're not nuts, nancy.  I saw and heard that too.  It took it a minute to register...

i am so curious what was said in that "interview" at the VDS home. natalee's mom said that Paul VDS' words during that talk CONFIRMED for her that he knew more than he was sharing.

I wonder if Greta and Beth's information led to Mr. VDS' detainment today?

Yes she did.  And I usually don't watch FOX news.  But I have been very impressed with her.

someone was thinking the same thing I was.  :lol:

What beth just said sounds extremely similar to the scenario involving Lorenzo that arubagirl posted earlier.

I think I would have to hold to that to if I were Natalee's Mom. The alternative is to hurtful. That said, I do pray to God they find her somewhere, alive. I am just not sure, but one can pray.

That actually was my first thought :)

oh dear Christ, I hope that it's true.

You know she knows more than us.  She knows what is going on.  However I find it hard to believe she is still on the island.  Remember in the email something about she died her hair red (rumor I know), but what if someone else did?

Sorry, cancon, but I don't buy this.

I think, if the brothers weren't just as culpable as Joran, this case would be solved now. I don't think a one of them has been telling the truth. Just pointing the finger at other people.

well from watching all those Bollywood movies, it seems to me the Hindus sure know how to have fun compared to their Muslim brothers......

their weddings look like a riot

okkkkkkkkkk...so back to LO REN ZO

and that LE KNOWS dad knows something.......I heard that as well

it s checkmate for papa vds

Who is Lorenzo? I've seen that name thrown around this board before. What is the theory concerning him?

LOVE GRETA!  Fair and balanced.  She's the best reporter Fox has.

Bless Beth's heart, she is so strong but you can tell it is starting to get to her.  She sounded angry tonight (not that I blame her at all).  She said that she believes that Natalee was kidnapped and still being held on the Island.  She also stated that she received information when talking to the PVDS that he does know more, but she did not elaborate, actually she said that she could not talk about it.

Prays from me to that entire family.

Ok..Arubagirl...do you remember that RUMOR about Lorenzo and his basement?  Then someome also said there was a RUMOR about NH clothes being found at Lorenzo's house?  Remember?  Could it be????

I basically agree Juvenal, they still may only be accessories after the fact,
I was merely positing some theories if the boys were released or considered innocent why would they lie

YES! I am so excited!!!!! I was about to give up!  Really looked bleak for a while, Beth is so AWSOME!!!!! You go girlfriend!

At the moment I am totally and completely stunned!!!

So do I.  I really have leaned more toward her being dead at this point.  And watching the father and step-mother has helped lead me that direction, as they have talked about her in the past tense for about a week now.  But I really really hope this has a happy ending.