Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) => Natalee Breaking News Archive => Topic started by: RB on June 24, 2005, 12:17:00 AM



Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 12:17:00 AM
While we're a reasonable bunch, we do have some expectations for the etiquette of our posters and want you to know what will keep you in the Monkey cage, or excommunicate you to the wild jungles of the Internet to swing on a few vines to relax yourself. Needless to say, we'd like to cage you here rather than set you "free." Follow the guidelines below (there's only 3 - humor us) and you'll spend many a happy day picking flies off each other, chattering, and bouncing off the walls.

Monkeys will avoid feeding the trolls. True trolls are a rare breed; and the owners, admins and moderators know what and who they are and we have super-dooper bug spray to get rid of them. 'Nuff said.

Monkeys will use proper social etiquette in expressing their opinions. There are always more than 1 side and opinion to every story; some posts you will like and agree with, and others you won't. While lively debate is appreciated, moderators and forum admins reserve the right to admonish and/or eject, without notice, those parties who debate using insults, engage in name-calling, or otherwise imflammatory posts. Act like you're at a public place using the manners your mother taught you and you'll be just fine. If you don't have manners, don't bother posting as it just wastes our time mashing the "banned" button. We've got other things to do.

Monkeys recognize that the forum threads and some functionality may be temporarily unavailable at times. During high peak periods, forum operators may disable some features such as avatars, sig lines and the like. We'll restore it when the hooplah dies down. Likewise, we reserve the right to edit, delete or move posts or threads in any manner that we choose. Hey, when it's your house, you can move the furniture.....

Enjoy!

Please visit www.scaredmonkeys.com for the summaries of the news!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: GeOrGiA on June 24, 2005, 12:23:44 AM
What's the 4th rule?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: puggywug on June 24, 2005, 12:23:55 AM
Quote from: "tuberide"
FREEBIRD is purty big in the SOUTH................woohoo!


:::puggy holding up lighter:::


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KKM on June 24, 2005, 12:24:08 AM
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ting on June 24, 2005, 12:24:32 AM
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 12:25:43 AM
OMG...I did it again..the refresh thing while you guys were already in a new post..... :?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 12:26:12 AM
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


They like some "breeze" around their privates. :)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 12:26:20 AM
seconding Ting's recommendation re: attire -
I'd hate to have to type with my eyes closed!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Onnimus on June 24, 2005, 12:26:22 AM
I can't read all of these hundreds and hundreds of posts- can't keep up. Can someone summarize what new info has come about tonight on the tv stations?

WHatever happened to the Diaro story about trailing a car of kidnappers?

etc etc.........all I know is PVDS was arrested,,,,,house of VDS is boarded up and deserted (where is Anita?)....Natalee's parents seem to really believe she is alive and being held somewhere..yet at the same time these Texas searchers coming in seem to be for the purpose of recovering bodies.

Does the family REALLY think she is alive by what they know that's not being revealed or is it just hope? I HOPE it will turn out to be true.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:27:09 AM
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
What's the 4th rule?


no smoking banannas on line


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tuberide on June 24, 2005, 12:27:25 AM
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
I cannot believe they actually know something or paid a ransom - why would they be having this Texas group come in - there just does not seem anyway that the Texans are going to be looking for a live person - they are not going to be going into houses and basements - they can only find someone not alive - so unless the Holloways and the Twittys are not communicating - there can't have been a ransom paid or the story about the tailor true



maybe they are just a ploy to get the sid-scan radar gear onto the iosland so it can be used to "take a peek" in certain suspect buildings?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 12:27:34 AM
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


I agree, KKM. And this person supposedly got this information, what? Third hand or fourth hand?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 12:28:06 AM
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
What's the 4th rule?


Dammit. I just edited it. :)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 12:28:56 AM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


They like some "breeze" around their privates. :)


Just as long as the monkeys don't start throwing their poop.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 12:29:45 AM
Chloe:

Here's the link to the Beth Twitty interview.  If anyone notices a transcript of the interview up on Fox, let me know.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 12:29:54 AM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


They like some "breeze" around their privates. :)


Those double fans in my Dell make it like a wind tunnel for areodynamic testing.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:30:01 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


They like some "breeze" around their privates. :)


Just as long as the monkeys don't start throwing their poop.



 :lol:  :lol: Good laugh there!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 12:30:15 AM
Maybe it`s an idea to make from every days most important 'rumours'
a list in another topic or so. It`s indeed hard to read it all I have my eyes supported on matchsticks now to keep them open...... :shock:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 12:31:00 AM
I "read" the BTH interview tonight differently. I think Beth has been doing this amazing job of holding herself together and being strong and all ... but I think her ability to keep it up is starting (understandably) to crack. Tonight she was not her usual super-in-control self and I think we saw her trying to bolster her hope with her anger and belief that Natalee was kidnapped, is on the island, etc. It was really sad to see this interview though I suspect that it is better for her to let some of the control go so she can work through emotions of this horrible situation. (and I apologize for psychobabbling in advance)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 12:31:02 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
What's the 4th rule?


no smoking banannas on line


Definatly not, no rule against smoking anything.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: writergal on June 24, 2005, 12:31:02 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


I agree, KKM. And this person supposedly got this information, what? Third hand or fourth hand?


   The Riehlworld poster said he heard it from his uncle, who heard it from histailor, who heard it from the mayor of Birmingham.
    And if you believe that, there's a bridge I have for sale...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: chloe2 on June 24, 2005, 12:31:08 AM
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 12:32:04 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


They like some "breeze" around their privates. :)


Just as long as the monkeys don't start throwing their poop.


Maybe I'm punch drunk, because I'm laughing so hard I can't see. :)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 12:32:13 AM
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


lol... :shock:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ocicat on June 24, 2005, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)

I am going back to review it. Why did I think it came through as based on fact? Maybe I am exhausted!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: puggywug on June 24, 2005, 12:32:32 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?
I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.

They like some "breeze" around their privates. :)

Just as long as the monkeys don't start throwing their poop.

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "GeOrGiA"
What's the 4th rule?

no smoking banannas on line


On that note, I'm gonna hit the hay....with visions of breezy privates, monky poop, and bananas dancing in my head...

Nite, Monkeys!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: luna on June 24, 2005, 12:34:03 AM
bendex wrote:
THANKS GUYS FOR FILLING ME IN
WOW THIS HEAVY , WE FINALLY HAVE A MOTIVE.


waaaay back at 10:34

Could someone pls explain this??? I had to work late...

thanks a mil....
_____________________
His post came shortly after BHY stated that Nat had been kidnapped....did she say anything about a motive or is bendex hallucinating????


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tuberide on June 24, 2005, 12:34:12 AM
Quote from: "Ting"
RB, don't you think you should have included at least one paragraph about appropriate posting attire?

I read an unconfirmed rumor on another website that some of the male monkeys are posting while not wearing pants.


so big brother IS watching!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 12:34:35 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Chloe:

Here's the link to the Beth Twitty interview.  If anyone notices a transcript of the interview up on Fox, let me know.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html


I can't find it Nancy, not coming up for me anyway? No interview on this url you posted


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: chloe2 on June 24, 2005, 12:35:07 AM
Quote from: "Ocicat"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)

I am going back to review it. Why did I think it came through as based on fact? Maybe I am exhausted!


She says very emphatically that she 'knows' things, but I did not hear it as knowing as in having proof. As I said, just how I interpreted things. She said she 'knew' that first night and the next morning that Joran's dad 'knew' something, and when she met him again she had 'proof' -- but the way she says it does not sound convincing to me that she's speaking about objective truth or knowing - more like her intuition. She says the FBI are keeping her informed, so it's easy to take a leap that they've given her some hard core 'facts', but I can't quite take that leap.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:35:08 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Maybe it`s an idea to make from every days most important 'rumours'
a list in another topic or so. It`s indeed hard to read it all I have my eyes supported on matchsticks now to keep them open...... :shock:


I know..I'm going to bed soon. nite all.


Title: Post About Ransom Paid
Post by: maritzka on June 24, 2005, 12:35:25 AM
hi dan,
have been keeping up with your blog along the way and have to say thank you so much for all that you are doing to get the word about about natalee holoway. i am a native birminghamian (having grown up in mountain brook), now living in new york city. since it seems as though so few people from birmingham are talking i wanted to make your readers aware of some of the latest buzz going around the "tiny kingdom"...hope some of this helps...

our family has a tailor in birmingham - who is known by nearly everyone who's anyone in birmingham, a sort of "tailor of birmingham." as he dresses most of the affluent residents - from the infamous richard scrushy to the pastor of briarwood church (one of the largest churches in the US). he is the eyes and ears and a great source of information....

my uncle was in the tailor's shop earlier this week and got into a discussion about natalee holloway with in which the tailor told my uncle that the mayor of birmingham, who had also been by the shop earlier, informed him that the holloway family has already paid a ransom to natalee's captors, but has yet to receive her, although they are confident that officials are working to get her back very, very soon. this tailor's brother in law is originally from suriname (where the suspect brothers are from) and says that the island is a notorious port through which women are kidnapped and then shipped off to such far eastern locales as bankok and indonesia. being a native of suriname, he feels quite confident that this is exactly what happened to natalee and she is still alive.

you may already know most of this and i'm sure you have loads of emails to answer, but i thought i'd pass along whatever tips i have. i praise God for people like you who are working so hard to get the truth out. may God continue to bless you in your efforts. congrats on all of your great press thus far and please continue to keep us posted.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 12:35:35 AM
Most users ever online was 436 on Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:20 pm

A new record yesterday. Before the CNN run. But right during the PVDS arrest discussion.

Welcome to you all.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 12:35:57 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "HannieC"
Maybe it`s an idea to make from every days most important 'rumours'
a list in another topic or so. It`s indeed hard to read it all I have my eyes supported on matchsticks now to keep them open...... :shock:


I know..I'm going to bed soon. nite all.


Nite FOM, see ya tomorrow :)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: chloe2 on June 24, 2005, 12:37:10 AM
I'd really like to stay - but I have to catch a plane in 6 hours and I'm not through packing!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Yellow Ribbon on June 24, 2005, 12:37:12 AM
Quote from: "writergal"
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


I agree, KKM. And this person supposedly got this information, what? Third hand or fourth hand?


   The Riehlworld poster said he heard it from his uncle, who heard it from histailor, who heard it from the mayor of Birmingham.
    And if you believe that, there's a bridge I have for sale...


On second thought, the Mayor of Birmingham is no more capable of keeping his mouth shut than is Dee Fine!

(Just thought I would stir the pot with that one.)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Brenda on June 24, 2005, 12:37:43 AM
May our Texas boys find Natalee tomorrow and let Natalee's family and friends take her home and give her a Christian burial.  I found a poem online and would like to share it with you all.  

Poem by Alicia Tamika Taylor of Australia
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/9601/Poems2.html


Falling from your eyes
Travelling down the side of your cheek
Till it falls from your face and dies

Have you ever tasted teardrops
While they're streaming from your eyes
When someone very close to you
Has gone for just awhile

Have you ever tasted teardrops
Of pain and broken hearts
It all becomes a bit too much
When your little one departs

The sorrow you must be feeling
I wish that I could mend
Or at least if I could give a hand
Or be a listening friend

I don't even know you
But your pain has touched me deep
Your loss of one so close to you
Has made me think and weep

For I have also felt the pain
Of losing one so close to me
And when I hear your tragic loss
I wonder why people can't see?

Why are people so cruel
To take love and break the spell of another
Why can't they see the connection
Between the daughter and her mother

Have you ever tasted teardrops
When they've dried up all away
Its because that someone close to you
Has finally come back to stay

She will be with you always.
Never forget.

Good night all.  Say a prayer for Natalee.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 12:37:48 AM
Omnibus, has it been confirmed that the chaperones actually knew Natalee washanging around with someone that week. . .or is that speculation?  I heard it very early on, then never heard anything else about it. I think if true, that would be a very important thing to look into, in light of Mrs. Twitty's saying others are involved.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 12:37:59 AM
Night all.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 12:38:23 AM
I'm joining the "heading to bed" crew as well ... I think the naked monkeys pushed me over the edge!

It's been good to talk with all of you today

g'nite!

(and Hannie - step away from the coffee and get some sleep - it's really early there!)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ocicat on June 24, 2005, 12:40:17 AM
Quote from: "Ocicat"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)

I am going back to review it. Why did I think it came through as based on fact? Maybe I am exhausted!


Ok-- I took another look. I think what I had originally said I got out of the  video and what I still found credible in reviewing it, is her statement that other people are involved, not just the ones locked up. I thought she was pretty clear that she could not disclose all she knew about that. The kidnapping part seemed more speculative. And you are right-- she looks absolutely exhausted, especially when you compare her to the recent photo they flashed of her at N's graduation.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: writergal on June 24, 2005, 12:40:40 AM
Quote from: "Yellow Ribbon"
Quote from: "writergal"
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


I agree, KKM. And this person supposedly got this information, what? Third hand or fourth hand?


   The Riehlworld poster said he heard it from his uncle, who heard it from histailor, who heard it from the mayor of Birmingham.
    And if you believe that, there's a bridge I have for sale...


On second thought, the Mayor of Birmingham is no more capable of keeping his mouth shut than is Dee Fine!

(Just thought I would stir the pot with that one.)



    Then you'd think he'd have told the press instead of his tailor!!! Does the mayor like tv face time? Seriously, this is too silly for words.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 12:40:54 AM
Ok coco, I think I take your advice :wink:

G'nite all see you later..... I`m sure in a couple of hours :oops:

 :wink:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 12:41:25 AM
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


Title: natalee and the drug dealer
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:42:20 AM
my did we not close early tonite.  makes it hard to read the thoughts from prev string.   i had not heard the story of the chaperones learning natalee was hanging out with a dealer.    as i was saying.  remember the rumor about natalee being seen in the marriott eating with a "very dark guy" (nigerian?) and a "light one" drug dealer?  this was off the radio the same day as the stories of the hysterical woman on the Marriott beach and the hysterical woman in front of HI taken away by two guys.  no, joran and the kalpoes do not meet the dealer profile.  did you see deepak's room?  meticulous.  greta is so nosy.  not a dope smoker either.   just can't get my head around these boys as criminals.  as far as i can go is stupid accident  don't think timeline is right for their drugging her for sexual purposes.  mother says like 11 joran called for a lift.  they had to drive out from downtown to joran's get him and come back to the club.   i bet the what time did you pick up joran vs wht time paul picked up joran is one of the contradictions.  i bet the kalpoes picked up joran later because paul had to go to sleep first bfore they could sneak out.  i imagine the kalpoes would have gone to the bar too.  i  liked the mother's detail of deepak's meticulousness with his car precluded him parking it downtown where it might get scratched and the skirts made it too low to go on the bad roads at the lighhouse   now did joran have to call dad to get home after whatever happened?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 12:43:23 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Chloe:

Here's the link to the Beth Twitty interview.  If anyone notices a transcript of the interview up on Fox, let me know.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html


I can't find it Nancy, not coming up for me anyway? No interview on this url you posted


I just went there, it's there. But, because Fox has so much crap going on it's hard to find...Go to the far right/top and look for a box that says "FREE VIDEO EXCLUSIVE FROM FOX NEWS" just beneath that heading is a picture of Beth Holloway and a link to the video.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 12:44:22 AM
Quote from: "Ocicat"
Quote from: "Ocicat"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)

I am going back to review it. Why did I think it came through as based on fact? Maybe I am exhausted!


Ok-- I took another look. I think what I had originally said I got out of the  video and what I still found credible in reviewing it, is her statement that other people are involved, not just the ones locked up. I thought she was pretty clear that she could not disclose all she knew about that. The kidnapping part seemed more speculative. And you are right-- she looks absolutely exhausted, especially when you compare her to the recent photo they flashed of her at N's graduation.


All the mothers look exhausted...but after going and thinkig the wrong path, I got the impression that a: Beth has the power to influence the Arubian LE directly. b: She seem to know some inside information, perhaps powers to be or local people with special information has divulge something that makes her so sure ont certain things she is saying.
c: So far all the suspect she had called for are not in Jail.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 12:45:00 AM
Did anyone ever post photos of Lorenzo?  I was following things closely a few days ago, though, for some reason couldn't post again until today.  Remember the discussion about Lorenzo, but never saw photos.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ocicat on June 24, 2005, 12:45:21 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:

I identify with her presentation. She looks like she is a mother who is absolutely driven to find her daughter and is running herself down in the process. I think I would do the same. I would not be able to stop looking and hunting until I collapsed. Every cell in my body would be directed toward my mission and I would probably not be able to eat or sleep.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 12:46:24 AM
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


yeah, probably


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:47:31 AM
Quote from: "luna"
bendex wrote:
THANKS GUYS FOR FILLING ME IN
WOW THIS HEAVY , WE FINALLY HAVE A MOTIVE.


waaaay back at 10:34

Could someone pls explain this??? I had to work late...

thanks a mil....
_____________________
His post came shortly after BHY stated that Nat had been kidnapped....did she say anything about a motive or is bendex hallucinating????


hallucinating.  there is not apparent motive (except sex).  also, where is the kidnapping?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 12:48:04 AM
Wonderwoman, maybe it is true. . .after all, Mrs. Twitty today stated that she thinks Natalee is kidnapped, didn't she?  I didn't hear it myself, but plan to watch the H&C rerun.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tuberide on June 24, 2005, 12:48:09 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did anyone ever post photos of Lorenzo?  I was following things closely a few days ago, though, for some reason couldn't post again until today.  Remember the discussion about Lorenzo, but never saw photos.


no lorenzo (yet) but here's a better one of MickeyD's in Oranjstead
http://clark.carthage.edu/food/images/mcdonalds/P1010258.JPG


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: bendex on June 24, 2005, 12:48:57 AM
The detainment of paul van der sloot is headline news on the dutch newspapers they quote judge of suspect suspected of murder

source www.telgraaf.nl
          www.nos.nl


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tuberide on June 24, 2005, 12:49:31 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


yeah, probably


plus, i can easily believe that word can spread in a town like that....B'ham is kind of like its own small island in a way I would reckon


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 12:50:20 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
OMG...I did it again..the refresh thing while you guys were already in a new post..... :?


Well, me too Hannie.  I went to get a cup of coffee and when I came back everyone was gone.   Took my coffeebreak in the last thread :?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 12:51:00 AM
I have a question for anyone that understands Aruban law.  Now that they have decided to hold PVDS for another 48 hours, can he be interrigated durring this time?  I know they interrigated him for 6 hours first...just wondering what happens the next 48?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ocicat on June 24, 2005, 12:51:23 AM
Quote from: "chloe2"
Quote from: "Ocicat"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)

I am going back to review it. Why did I think it came through as based on fact? Maybe I am exhausted!


She says very emphatically that she 'knows' things, but I did not hear it as knowing as in having proof. As I said, just how I interpreted things. She said she 'knew' that first night and the next morning that Joran's dad 'knew' something, and when she met him again she had 'proof' -- but the way she says it does not sound convincing to me that she's speaking about objective truth or knowing - more like her intuition. She says the FBI are keeping her informed, so it's easy to take a leap that they've given her some hard core 'facts', but I can't quite take that leap.


Oh I agree it is not objective truth. I was struck by how she said she had "proof" in her meeting with him the night before and, in fact, he was arrested the next day. That was the part I found personally convincing that the Dad is involved.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 12:51:42 AM
Quote from: "Ocicat"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:

I identify with her presentation. She looks like she is a mother who is absolutely driven to find her daughter and is running herself down in the process. I think I would do the same. I would not be able to stop looking and hunting until I collapsed. Every cell in my body would be directed toward my mission and I would probably not be able to eat or sleep.


Ohh, I totally agree, I don't think I would be able to stop looking, searching...BUT...I haven't seen this woman break down ONCE?? How is it that somebody is that strong??? Is it the religious part that keeps her strong? Why isn't it that she has not broken in front of the camera's. Thhis is the part that baffles me. I wouldn't be able to talk to a camera without breaking down.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CancunMole on June 24, 2005, 12:52:09 AM
Good Night. Let Natalee come home today..............


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Red on June 24, 2005, 12:52:19 AM
I can't believe I actually watched Larry King tonight. However, this little tid bit came out of the mouth of Mariane Croes with the attorney general's office in Aruba:

CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: luna on June 24, 2005, 12:53:49 AM
iquitos...thanks for your reply.

The kidnapping was implied/sem-stated by BHT in her interview tonight (with Greta?  not sure).

She mentioned that there would be others arrested/detained and the interviewer said, "Would that be the kidnappers?"  and she said yes.

Also, another rumor is making the rounds that the Ts posted a ransom and that's why BHT has been upbeat yesterday and today.

More speculation...

PS...I enjoy your posts...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: doman4 on June 24, 2005, 12:54:05 AM
Quote from: "bendex"
The detainment of paul van der sloot is headline news on the dutch newspapers they quote judge of suspect suspected of murder

source www.telgraaf.nl   This is the translation:
        24 June 2005 03.11 judges on Aruba suspected the Dutch judge who on Aruba is stuck because of the disappearance of American scholiere of assassination ORANJESTAD, are now a verdachte in the matter. The 53 person whose birthday it is man is accused of the medeplegen of assassination, doodslag or removal with the death to consequence. The judge was taken up yesterday. He is the father of the 17 person whose birthday it is boy who already concerning the vermissing of the 18 person whose birthday it is Natalee Holloway vastzat. Others also three become suspicious. Holloway disappeared three weeks suffered after schoolreisje. The police force thinks that she has been killed. So far no track of the scholiere has been found.  www.nos.nl


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 24, 2005, 12:54:14 AM
Hi all...(been lurking trying to catch up)

I feel like I am on a rollercoaster ride.....I have always had this deep gut feeling that Natalee is alive.  Especially when the Diaria (sp?) guy was on the phone with FOX and said they were following ppl who they felt were involved....then...not another word...Then tonight, the Diaria (not sure if it was the same guy) did not seem as enthusiastic about the outcome...really confused me.

But, then, I saw Beth in her interview....I am not by any means an expert on behavior or body language...but I would like to think that I know a little (Bachelors in Psychology....police officer).  To me, she seemed like she was hoping....speculating...but then, when she started talking about a kidnapping and about Natalee being alive and on the island...she changed...she looked straight into his eyes and said YES, ON THE ISLAND ...(not exact words I'm sure)...with such gumption!  Well, that just did it for me...I even felt my eyes starting to tear up...whew...

Then, when I got online, I went straight to Riehlworldview and saw the post about the ransom....have my doubts about it...but there are so many things that make you wonder.....RUMORS????  We don't know...but it is possible....somebody seeing her being taken away against her will...this ransom story...the diaria story (maybe no mention because it would put Natalee in danger)..numerous other rumors...possibilities.

I really have no point to this post...basically, just sharing my thoughts...

I just really feel that she is alive....I think we will know within the next few days....I have a good feeling about this Equusearch group from Texas!! :)


How do they expect us to figure out the puzzle when they keep changing the picture on the box???  :?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ocicat on June 24, 2005, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: "Red"


CROES:  so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation

Pre-meditated? So the accidentally died from drugs theory is not their main working theory?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KKM on June 24, 2005, 12:55:20 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


I agree, KKM. And this person supposedly got this information, what? Third hand or fourth hand?
I guess so.  And now look what he's gone and done to both the Mayor and the poor tailor's reputations.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 12:55:29 AM
Quote from: "Red"
I can't believe I actually watched Larry King tonight. However, this little tid bit came out of the mouth of Mariane Croes with the attorney general's office in Aruba:

CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation


I noticed that too Red, the words PREMEDITATED MURDER stood out to me significantly. Did she let something go there? Or is this just another language barrier that may prove to be nothing?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: medleyrelay on June 24, 2005, 12:57:12 AM
Why though if Beth thinks this is a kidnapping - would they bother with the Texas gang - they cannot find someone held in a basement for a kidnapping???


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 12:58:14 AM
Reply to inthepacific -
She is strong because of two things - first her faith in God - second, she is running as hard as she can for her daughter.  Running that hard precludes breaking down.  If you have ever been in a life/death situation, it would  be easier to understand.  When you don't have strength on your own, God strengthens you. . .that is what faith is. . .that is what faith does.  If you have ever worked 100& on a project, it is similar. . .you work and work and work, and nothing else matters.  You just don't look back.

But how long she can go in full speed, I don't know.  It will take a toll on her.  Our prayers help.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ocicat on June 24, 2005, 01:00:05 AM
Goodnight all. I hope this "premeditated murder" thing is just a passing phase. It is interesting to speculate and try to trail the facts, but the reality is so heartbreaking. I really still hold out for her reunion with her family. I think that's what keeps me on, as unlikely as that is.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scarlett on June 24, 2005, 01:01:59 AM
Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)


Title: translation of press report v/d sloot arrest
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:02:55 AM
ORANJESTAD De Nederlandse rechter die op Aruba vastzit wegens de verdwijning van een Amerikaanse scholiere, is nu een verdachte in de zaak. De 53-jarige man wordt beschuldigd van het medeplegen van moord, doodslag of ontvoering met de dood tot gevolg.

De rechter werd gisteren opgepakt. Hij is de vader van de 17-jarige jongen die al in verband met de vermissing van de 18-jarige Natalee Holloway vastzit. Ook drie anderen worden verdacht.

Holloway verdween drie weken geleden na een schoolreisje. De politie denkt dat zij is omgebracht. Tot nu toe is er geen spoor van de scholiere gevonden.  

oranjestad-  the dutch judge who is locked up in aruba because of the disappearance of the american student is now a suspect in the case.  the 53 year old man is accused of acessory to murder, manslaughter, and kidnapping with death as a consequence.  

The judge was picked yesterday.  he is the father of the 17 year old boy who is already sitting fast in connection with the missing (disappearance) of the 18 year natalee holloway.  three others are also suspected.  

Holloway disappeared three weeks ago after (should be on) a school trip.  the police think that she was killed.  up until now there is no trace found of the student.  

here is the link in case soembody (nancy) comes back and says it never existed.  http://www.nos.nl/nos/artikelen/2005/06/art0000B0060700.html


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:03:49 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 01:04:14 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Reply to inthepacific -
She is strong because of two things - first her faith in God - second, she is running as hard as she can for her daughter.  Running that hard precludes breaking down.  If you have ever been in a life/death situation, it would  be easier to understand.  When you don't have strength on your own, God strengthens you. . .that is what faith is. . .that is what faith does.  If you have ever worked 100& on a project, it is similar. . .you work and work and work, and nothing else matters.  You just don't look back.

But how long she can go in full speed, I don't know.  It will take a toll on her.  Our prayers help.


Thanks for your reply bluebob, as I said, I am not a religious person so this could be, like you said, the strength that keeps her going without breaking down in front of camera's.

I commend her for her strenght, I don't think I could endure it as she has consecutively.

WOW, what a strong human she is.

As the religious folk say...God bless her and pray for a safe return of Natalee.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 24, 2005, 01:04:29 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:
Being a christian myself, and having experienced much...I can say that God gives so much strength in trying times to those that have faith.  My favorite verse...which I am sure Beth recites often is..."I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength, phil. 4:13".  (not a holy roller...but have experienced this strength myself....felt so weak...but those around me were in awe...like we are of Beth)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Yellow Ribbon on June 24, 2005, 01:05:36 AM
inthepacific,

Beth Twitty has impressed most everybody with her strength. She did break down at one or two press conferences. There were some pretty heartbreaking pictures of her a couple of weeks ago. She or her husband has also talked about how they have had plenty of very difficult moments.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:05:37 AM
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)


This sounds pretty logical to me... hmmm, interesting, so the colombian necktie was a warning to all three and PVS?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: luna on June 24, 2005, 01:05:41 AM
Scarlett....another potentially viable scenario!!

Even if it turns out to not be true....would make a good novel.

The part about whay arubagirl says makes it even more compelling.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TG on June 24, 2005, 01:06:07 AM
Quote from: "Scarlett"
If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

I think the beheading rumor ended up not being in Aruba.  It was in Aruba, Iraq from what I understand.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:06:41 AM
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)


scarlet.  thank you for that.  very well developed and even a little plausible as things go here.


Title: Waaah
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:06:58 AM
Waaah!  Locked out again!  Every time you start a new folder, I'm still 2-3 pages from the end of the last one and trying to reply.  By the time I figure out there is a new folder, you have 3-4 pages already!

Isn't there some other way to warn people--like always on a certain page number, then 30 minutes after that page is finished, the whole folder will be locked?  Grrrr.

Who knows if I had something earth-shattering to post--by the time I get to the new folder and have missed all of the last 10 pages total, from the old one and the new one, then I have no idea what is being discussed or has been discussed.

I've read every page I could tonight and not one person described either of the major interviews in detail, so I could form an opinion about them.  Not everyone has cable -- you can't imagine what it's like to sit here and see everyone posting "I sure like the way Beth looks now" or blah blah blah yada yada and not ONE thing that was actually SAID in the interview.

Waaaaahhh!  Whine, whine.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:08:49 AM
Quote from: "Red"
I can't believe I actually watched Larry King tonight. However, this little tid bit came out of the mouth of Mariane Croes with the attorney general's office in Aruba:

CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation
 

red, see my translation of the dutch press dispatch


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: writergal on June 24, 2005, 01:08:58 AM
The comment by Mariane Croes that the four are being held on suspicion of premeditated murder is very disturbing. And is this new as of tonight? Weren't the original charges "suspicion of murder and suspicion of kidnapping"? The premeditated part makes the situation a lot graver. I wonder what evidence they have for this? How awful.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 01:09:19 AM
Isn't there some other way to warn people--like always on a certain page number, then 30 minutes after that page is finished, the whole folder will be locked? Grrrr

That's not a bad idea.  And actually I did give everyone a 5 min heads up before I locked it about an hour ago.   I'll take that one up with the team and see what we can do...

Thanks :)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:10:30 AM
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
Why though if Beth thinks this is a kidnapping - would they bother with the Texas gang - they cannot find someone held in a basement for a kidnapping???


Even though Beth was very compelling in the interview...someone made the point that Natalee's Dad is far more realistic in noting there's not much of a chance she's alive.  He has spent alot of time with FBI and authorities, he gets the same updates Beth does...and he doesn't sound like there's a kidnapping or that there's much of a chance she's alive.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 01:10:49 AM
Hey Nancy_Drew, I just got back and read your posts in the other forum re: the theory.  You make excellent points, and they're understood particularly in light of my own line of work.  As far as facts, go, though,  the only facts I was taking were those given out by Beth Holloway, things she has emphatically stated (or in some cases, what she hasn't said) time and time and time again in every interview.  If you look at what she has said, it's impossible to take it as a whole and make it fit into a rape/murder scenario with Joran, IMO.  Coupled with her attitude, her statements do paint only a few pictures.  That said, I'm not picking out wedding invitations with the idea.

I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name. Would love to have help just pursuing this -- it's no less plausible (or more offensive) than the whole random sex/drug or (God forbid) sold into porn stardom theories.   The individuals from Aruba who stated Paul VdS was arrested an hour before we found out it was true have also left a trail of specifics about the 'fifth suspect' that line-up with the bizarre outburst from the Diario guy on Fox re: car chase and Venezuela, and that post that came out before the story broke in America that Natalee was missing.  Sure it's still rumor and conjection, I know.

But so was the nutty story about a break-in at the Watergate Hotel -- before Woodward and Bernstein got on the story. :)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: bendex on June 24, 2005, 01:10:58 AM
Well thats it for me to guys

" this subject is getting to death for my sword " shakespear


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 01:12:17 AM
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????


Title: Re: Waaah
Post by: luna on June 24, 2005, 01:12:43 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"

I've read every page I could tonight and not one person described either of the major interviews in detail, so I could form an opinion about them.  Not everyone has cable -- you can't imagine what it's like to sit here and see everyone posting "I sure like the way Beth looks now" or blah blah blah yada yada and not ONE thing that was actually SAID in the interview.  Waaaaahhh!  Whine, whine.


Ita....I don't have access to cable either, so I go to the riehlworldview.com discussion forum for good recaps everynight....thanks to Allison!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:12:49 AM
Has anyone heard what "medications" Natalee left in her hotel room?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 01:13:30 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


yeah, probably


 :roll:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:13:47 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????


see, I was sure that Arubagirl verified this also


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 01:14:04 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.


I didn't watch that interview Nancy, was looking for it and somebody provided a link to it on Fox but I still couldn't find it. I would have liked to watch that. Perhaps this is why she is holding up so well, she knows something we do not. If she thinks Natalee is alive, she may have good reason to believe, that from her sources within this investigation, they have told her they believe she is alive and being held captive somewhere.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tuberide on June 24, 2005, 01:14:40 AM
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "Scarlett"
If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

I think the beheading rumor ended up not being in Aruba.  It was in Aruba, Iraq from what I understand.


it happened on the island as well..too tired to look for link but its in the Arubaam.com archives from a few days ago


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:15:38 AM
Quote from: "tuberide"
Quote from: "TG"
Quote from: "Scarlett"
If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

I think the beheading rumor ended up not being in Aruba.  It was in Aruba, Iraq from what I understand.


it happened on the island as well..too tired to look for link but its in the Arubaam.com archives from a few days ago


thanks tuberide... thought I was losin' my mind for a second there


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scarlett on June 24, 2005, 01:15:43 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????
Quote
No, it really did happen on the island.  It was reported in the paper, and gave the man's name, although I can't remember what it was, only that it was dutch.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:15:45 AM
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
Why though if Beth thinks this is a kidnapping - would they bother with the Texas gang - they cannot find someone held in a basement for a kidnapping???


because they are already in train and this is breaking and still iffy for them  maybe fbi does not want ransom paid and maye they did not have contact for a while  the colombian nappers let you wait and sweat after initial contact teh reappear  sometimes months and natalee could be anywhere by now.  only question is why natalee?   did they mistake her for mcwane's daughter?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: luna on June 24, 2005, 01:16:41 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
Why though if Beth thinks this is a kidnapping - would they bother with the Texas gang - they cannot find someone held in a basement for a kidnapping???


Even though Beth was very compelling in the interview...someone made the point that Natalee's Dad is far more realistic in noting there's not much of a chance she's alive.  He has spent alot of time with FBI and authorities, he gets the same updates Beth does...and he doesn't sound like there's a kidnapping or that there's much of a chance she's alive.


Actually, it was reported tonight on another board that Nat's dad said she could be alive "and off the island."  How's that for a consistent theory from the parents?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 01:17:20 AM
Good Night All!!!

Sweet Dreams & remember to say your prayers.

God Bless Natalee, her family and her friends.

See y'all tomorrow.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:17:33 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
Why though if Beth thinks this is a kidnapping - would they bother with the Texas gang - they cannot find someone held in a basement for a kidnapping???


because they are already in train and this is breaking and still iffy for them  maybe fbi does not want ransom paid and maye they did not have contact for a while  the colombian nappers let you wait and sweat after initial contact teh reappear  sometimes months and natalee could be anywhere by now.  only question is why natalee?   did they mistake her for mcwane's daughter?


who's mcwane?
maybe she was payment for drugs??


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:19:07 AM
Quote from: "RB"
Isn't there some other way to warn people--like always on a certain page number, then 30 minutes after that page is finished, the whole folder will be locked? Grrrr

That's not a bad idea.  And actually I did give everyone a 5 min heads up before I locked it about an hour ago.   I'll take that one up with the team and see what we can do...

Thanks :)


Well, yes, I came upon the 5-minute warning about 30 minutes after you posted it!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 01:19:19 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "medleyrelay"
Why though if Beth thinks this is a kidnapping - would they bother with the Texas gang - they cannot find someone held in a basement for a kidnapping???


Even though Beth was very compelling in the interview...someone made the point that Natalee's Dad is far more realistic in noting there's not much of a chance she's alive.  He has spent alot of time with FBI and authorities, he gets the same updates Beth does...and he doesn't sound like there's a kidnapping or that there's much of a chance she's alive.


I have to agree with Natalee's father too. As sad as it is. The likelihood of her being detained or kidnapped and being alive is hopeful, yet in all probability not likely. :(


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:19:57 AM
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????
Quote
No, it really did happen on the island.  It was reported in the paper, and gave the man's name, although I can't remember what it was, only that it was dutch.

:::running through the door:::::

His name was Renee... I can't remember the last name but it was Dutch


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tuberide on June 24, 2005, 01:20:40 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????
Quote
No, it really did happen on the island.  It was reported in the paper, and gave the man's name, although I can't remember what it was, only that it was dutch.

:::running through the door:::::

His name was Renee... I can't remember the last name but it was Dutch


renee van dutch


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:20:41 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Hey Nancy_Drew, I just got back and read your posts in the other forum re: the theory.  You make excellent points, and they're understood particularly in light of my own line of work.  As far as facts, go, though,  the only facts I was taking were those given out by Beth Holloway, things she has emphatically stated (or in some cases, what she hasn't said) time and time and time again in every interview.  If you look at what she has said, it's impossible to take it as a whole and make it fit into a rape/murder scenario with Joran, IMO.  Coupled with her attitude, her statements do paint only a few pictures.  That said, I'm not picking out wedding invitations with the idea.

I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name. Would love to have help just pursuing this -- it's no less plausible (or more offensive) than the whole random sex/drug or (God forbid) sold into porn stardom theories.   The individuals from Aruba who stated Paul VdS was arrested an hour before we found out it was true have also left a trail of specifics about the 'fifth suspect' that line-up with the bizarre outburst from the Diario guy on Fox re: car chase and Venezuela, and that post that came out before the story broke in America that Natalee was missing.  Sure it's still rumor and conjection, I know.

But so was the nutty story about a break-in at the Watergate Hotel -- before Woodward and Bernstein got on the story. :)
 

might want to search on lorenzo van g somebody gave us the right name here a few days back  if they are here they will give it to you  i will look too


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 01:21:14 AM
Quote from: "6prs'o'klompen"
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????


see, I was sure that Arubagirl verified this also

It was in the Aruban paper.  The guys name was Rene Van Heyningen.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:22:08 AM
renee van den der goldmember (the guy from austin powers)  JK


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:23:10 AM
Renee Van Hannikan


Title: mcwane
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 01:23:14 AM
McWane is the owner of the steel company in Birmingham that was found guilty of polluting (I believe) recently.  McWane Steel.  Also owns the private jet that flew the Holloways to Aruba.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 01:23:42 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Hey Nancy_Drew, I just got back and read your posts in the other forum re: the theory.  You make excellent points, and they're understood particularly in light of my own line of work.  As far as facts, go, though,  the only facts I was taking were those given out by Beth Holloway, things she has emphatically stated (or in some cases, what she hasn't said) time and time and time again in every interview.  If you look at what she has said, it's impossible to take it as a whole and make it fit into a rape/murder scenario with Joran, IMO.  Coupled with her attitude, her statements do paint only a few pictures.  That said, I'm not picking out wedding invitations with the idea.

I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name. Would love to have help just pursuing this -- it's no less plausible (or more offensive) than the whole random sex/drug or (God forbid) sold into porn stardom theories.   The individuals from Aruba who stated Paul VdS was arrested an hour before we found out it was true have also left a trail of specifics about the 'fifth suspect' that line-up with the bizarre outburst from the Diario guy on Fox re: car chase and Venezuela, and that post that came out before the story broke in America that Natalee was missing.  Sure it's still rumor and conjection, I know.

But so was the nutty story about a break-in at the Watergate Hotel -- before Woodward and Bernstein got on the story. :)
 

might want to search on lorenzo van g somebody gave us the right name here a few days back  if they are here they will give it to you  i will look too

Lorenzo Van Rijn


Title: Not Lorenzo Van Rijn, as in Rembrandt?
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:23:48 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name.


What other last name besides "van Rijn" has there been mentioned?  Sheesh, that's the one I've been operating with--not that I'm having much more luck, but I wrote all that many, many posts ago.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:24:29 AM
hi caligirl, btw


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:24:41 AM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Hey Nancy_Drew, I just got back and read your posts in the other forum re: the theory.  You make excellent points, and they're understood particularly in light of my own line of work.  As far as facts, go, though,  the only facts I was taking were those given out by Beth Holloway, things she has emphatically stated (or in some cases, what she hasn't said) time and time and time again in every interview.  If you look at what she has said, it's impossible to take it as a whole and make it fit into a rape/murder scenario with Joran, IMO.  Coupled with her attitude, her statements do paint only a few pictures.  That said, I'm not picking out wedding invitations with the idea.

I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name. Would love to have help just pursuing this -- it's no less plausible (or more offensive) than the whole random sex/drug or (God forbid) sold into porn stardom theories.   The individuals from Aruba who stated Paul VdS was arrested an hour before we found out it was true have also left a trail of specifics about the 'fifth suspect' that line-up with the bizarre outburst from the Diario guy on Fox re: car chase and Venezuela, and that post that came out before the story broke in America that Natalee was missing.  Sure it's still rumor and conjection, I know.

But so was the nutty story about a break-in at the Watergate Hotel -- before Woodward and Bernstein got on the story. :)


I suggest you not give up on this. I thought I remembered someone in Aruba knowing of this person? Can they help confirm the last name? Are they listed in a directory?  Or, phone book?  Or real estate tax roll?   I'm not sure how pubic records work in Aruba, in this country you can usually find some online for free...at least SS records.  It's pretty easy in this country to do great research on someone online and with phone calls to access public records...not sure there.  Maybe some of our Arubans would  give you info on that.

One thing to remember. Quite often the story you started out with evolves into a completely different story.  Say you can't link up the possible relationship to Paulas..but, in your research you find this guy was interviewed and you find a new piece of evidence on the connections LE is making in solving this case.  THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE....many times research can confirm what you origninally thought..or, it can take you into another interesting direction.

Find out how records work in Aruba.  Are they made as public as they are here?  If not, see if there's an easy way to confirm some of the basic details on this guy. Ask around to see if there's someone down there willing to make a few bucks doing a search for you.  Offer to buy them dinner...

You can PM me or email me...I'm not a wizard but I can help you problem solve if you need it.

Good luck.


Title: Re: Not Lorenzo Van Rijn, as in Rembrandt?
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:25:39 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name.


What other last name besides "van Rijn" has there been mentioned?  Sheesh, that's the one I've been operating with--not that I'm having much more luck, but I wrote all that many, many posts ago.


Max Arends although there is still arguement of whether that is the corrects name.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:26:27 AM
(((((((HUGS)))))) Hi  :wink:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:27:36 AM
where is Joran's younger brother in all of this? Is he still on the island or did they ship him back to Holland/Netherlands?  I never hear anything about him or see him in the media either


Title: Re: Waaah
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:28:10 AM
Quote from: "luna"
Ita....I don't have access to cable either, so I go to the riehlworldview.com discussion forum for good recaps everynight....thanks to Allison!


Thanks, I'll add that back to my path.  I hit 4-5 different forums each time, but can't keep up with this one--would be nice to have it all in one place, but if wishes were monkeys ....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:29:23 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
(((((((HUGS)))))) Hi  :wink:


I needed that tonight (snif sniff) Pistons lost to the Spurs  :(

Well at least Kerin will be happy


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 24, 2005, 01:31:48 AM
partial decapatated man found in cemetary...Rene Van Heyningenm - 29 years old


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:32:57 AM
In a way, I do feel bad for Joran's mom.  She has probably been hit hard with the reality of what her husband is really like and the reality that Joran may not be the golden boy she thought he was.  Reality is easy to deal with one thing at a time, but she's been hit hard by all this too.

Well, maybe she meet a nice guy that doesn't lie and sweat so much and run like a girl....(sorry, couldn't resist)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 01:33:21 AM
{{{{CALI}}}}}}
::::yawn:::::

Hey Ya'll!!!  :D


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scarlett on June 24, 2005, 01:33:28 AM
Night all!

Fingers crossed and prayers that we get some good news tomorrow.


Title: Re: Not Lorenzo Van Rijn, as in Rembrandt?
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 01:33:29 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name.


What other last name besides "van Rijn" has there been mentioned?  Sheesh, that's the one I've been operating with--not that I'm having much more luck, but I wrote all that many, many posts ago.


I remember when this name first came up.  Wasn't there a differnet spelling of the name?  Was it van Geijn  or something similar?


Title: Re: Not Lorenzo Van Rijn, as in Rembrandt?
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 01:33:29 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name.


What other last name besides "van Rijn" has there been mentioned?  Sheesh, that's the one I've been operating with--not that I'm having much more luck, but I wrote all that many, many posts ago.

Phew! *wipes brow* all caught up!

I've also seen Van Gijn mentioned.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:34:52 AM
Hi Kerin


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 24, 2005, 01:35:12 AM
Hi Kerin (did you get my PM from this morning?)


good night Scarlett....take care


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Red on June 24, 2005, 01:35:51 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Red"
I can't believe I actually watched Larry King tonight. However, this little tid bit came out of the mouth of Mariane Croes with the attorney general's office in Aruba:

CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation
 

red, see my translation of the dutch press dispatch


Interesting, I will add that to the main page tomorrow. Here is a link to the trascript from Larry King, go down to middle of the page after THE BREAK,

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/23/lkl.01.html


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:36:00 AM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
{{{{CALI}}}}}}
::::yawn:::::

Hey Ya'll!!!  :D


Hey Kerin!!!!!!! Man woman I hope you were sleeping! lmao


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:36:53 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I suggest you not give up on this. I thought I remembered someone in Aruba knowing of this person? Can they help confirm the last name? Are they listed in a directory?  Or, phone book?  Or real estate tax roll?   I'm not sure how pubic records work in Aruba, in this country you can usually find some online for free...at least SS records.  It's pretty easy in this country to do great research on someone online and with phone calls to access public records...not sure there.  Maybe some of our Arubans would  give you info on that.

One thing to remember. Quite often the story you started out with evolves into a completely different story.  Say you can't link up the possible relationship to Paulas..but, in your research you find this guy was interviewed and you find a new piece of evidence on the connections LE is making in solving this case.  THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE....many times research can confirm what you origninally thought..or, it can take you into another interesting direction.

Find out how records work in Aruba.  Are they made as public as they are here?  If not, see if there's an easy way to confirm some of the basic details on this guy. Ask around to see if there's someone down there willing to make a few bucks doing a search for you.  Offer to buy them dinner...

You can PM me or email me...I'm not a wizard but I can help you problem solve if you need it.

Good luck.


I'm not sure why you are pushing forum members to insert themselves into an ongoing criminal investigation ... not good, not good at all!  We should never do anything invasive or intrusive in trying to figure out how the puzzle pieces fit!  Aaaggh!  Stumbling onto something that tips off a bad guy is not right!  

Helping LE is fine, and I send info in all the time, but they know more than we do!  I just try to be an extra pair of eyes and an extra brain for them, not arms and legs!  Nooooo!  This is *just* a public forum--we don't have the backing of a major media outlet, who would have the insurance to cover the bad things that could happen with Joe Citizen out there gumshoeing or possibly libeling or slandering someone.  Uh-uh!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:36:59 AM
Just thought I would share an interesting beggining to now piece...

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWSV5/storyV5familysearch19w.htm


Title: Kerin's eye
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 01:37:16 AM
Kerin, is that the natural color of your eyes or do you wear colored contacts?  If natural, nice.


Title: Re: Not Lorenzo Van Rijn, as in Rembrandt?
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name.


What other last name besides "van Rijn" has there been mentioned?  Sheesh, that's the one I've been operating with--not that I'm having much more luck, but I wrote all that many, many posts ago.

Phew! *wipes brow* all caught up!

I've also seen Van Gijn mentioned.


aia called him "Van Geijn"


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:40:27 AM
Interesting.. I learned from that link I posted that Joran plays poker...

so he's good at bluffin!  :wink:  Sorry I had to say it! jk lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 01:40:41 AM
Hi 6 prs....(sorry, I am more of a football fan) :-)

Waiting, yes I did get your PM but I have been on the road all day. Give me awhile (or maybe Cali has something?)


Title: Re: Not Lorenzo Van Rijn, as in Rembrandt?
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:40:50 AM
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name.


What other last name besides "van Rijn" has there been mentioned?  Sheesh, that's the one I've been operating with--not that I'm having much more luck, but I wrote all that many, many posts ago.


I remember when this name first came up.  Wasn't there a differnet spelling of the name?  Was it van Geijn  or something similar?


try van gijn  i found that in a back post  not much on google other than car rental agency  will check phone book


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:41:27 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Interesting.. I learned from that link I posted that Joran play poker...

so he's good at bluffin!  :wink:  Sorry I had to say it! jk lol


Hope he gets the royal flush, though :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:42:53 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.


I didn't watch that interview Nancy, was looking for it and somebody provided a link to it on Fox but I still couldn't find it. I would have liked to watch that. Perhaps this is why she is holding up so well, she knows something we do not. If she thinks Natalee is alive, she may have good reason to believe, that from her sources within this investigation, they have told her they believe she is alive and being held captive somewhere.


I think I posted the link for you, or someone.

Go to the link and look at the top right...there's a heading that says something like "FREE FOX VIDEOS"  below it is a picture of Beth and a link to the video.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html

You won't see the box unless your screen is open all the way. I just noticed my bookmarks are open now and I had to scroll to the right to see the box.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 01:43:20 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Interesting.. I learned from that link I posted that Joran plays poker...

so he's good at bluffin!  :wink:  Sorry I had to say it! jk lol


He seems to be beating the interrogators. I guess playing poker teaches some usefull skills... :roll:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 01:43:37 AM
dl3, I do wear contacts but they are clear. Thanks for the comment.  :)

Cali, I got 2 hours sleep last night and then made the long drive to Corpus Christi, fried in the sun all day, drove back and now....here I am!!


Title: Re: natalee and the drug dealer
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 01:45:12 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
my did we not close early tonite.  makes it hard to read the thoughts from prev string.   i had not heard the story of the chaperones learning natalee was hanging out with a dealer.    as i was saying.  remember the rumor about natalee being seen in the marriott eating with a "very dark guy" (nigerian?) and a "light one" drug dealer?  this was off the radio the same day as the stories of the hysterical woman on the Marriott beach and the hysterical woman in front of HI taken away by two guys.  no, joran and the kalpoes do not meet the dealer profile.  did you see deepak's room?  meticulous.  greta is so nosy.  not a dope smoker either.   just can't get my head around these boys as criminals.  as far as i can go is stupid accident  don't think timeline is right for their drugging her for sexual purposes.  mother says like 11 joran called for a lift.  they had to drive out from downtown to joran's get him and come back to the club.   i bet the what time did you pick up joran vs wht time paul picked up joran is one of the contradictions.  i bet the kalpoes picked up joran later because paul had to go to sleep first bfore they could sneak out.  i imagine the kalpoes would have gone to the bar too.  i  liked the mother's detail of deepak's meticulousness with his car precluded him parking it downtown where it might get scratched and the skirts made it too low to go on the bad roads at the lighhouse   now did joran have to call dad to get home after whatever happened?

Problem there is Joran would have had to awaken his father to "pick him up" and that would have clearly blown the family's curfew...remember, he was sneaking out of the house.  

...and then if he was totally out of control, blowing it with his father wouldn't have been a problem for Joran.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 01:45:29 AM
With the interview with Larry King Live, the spokes person for attourney general in aruba, it seems the word for PVDS arrest is....REASONABLE SUSPICION OF PRE-MEDITATED MURDER,(the same as the other 4 arrested)...like Red has noted on the main page.

Interesting, very interesting.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 01:46:30 AM
I apologize if this is off topic, but did any of you see the segment on Nancy Grace tonight where they talked about the released transcript of Couey's confession in the Jessica Lunsford case?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 01:47:48 AM
http://home.planet.nl/~swart825/Heredis/heredis/22-10-2004.ged

This is the only link I could find that turned up a René van Heyningen.  Unfortunately it is in Dutch, and I only read English and Spanish, tho my Papiwhatever is getting better.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 01:48:53 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
With the interview with Larry King Live, the spokes person for attourney general in aruba, it seems the word for PVDS arrest is....REASONABLE SUSPICION OF PRE-MEDITATED MURDER,(the same as the other 4 arrested)...like Red has noted on the main page.

Interesting, very interesting.


Hmmm. Could be that they have reasonable suspicion of premeditated murder, manslaughter, or the equivalent thereof, kidnapping, etc. As I recall, they seem to group the possibilities together when they make arrests. Not sure it means they necessarily think that it was a premeditated murder. Or am I wrong this time?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:48:57 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
partial decapatated man found in cemetary...Rene Van Heyningenm - 29 years old


Every single media article about this death spelled the man's name very differently - Hannikin, Hanegem, Hannegem, Heynigen, many more.

None of those appear in the Aruba white pages, but this name does (several people by this name), and this spelling was never reported!  Go figure!

Heijningen


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:49:07 AM
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 01:49:14 AM
Well, the only way it could be pre-meditated is what??????  What would be the scenario that would make it pre-meditated??????


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: neil on June 24, 2005, 01:50:18 AM
Wake me up when it is over.

I find the whole picture ugly and getting uglier.

First American teens are sent to an island where the prime reason for going is gambling, booze and the ready availability of drugs and prostitutes, oh yes and a nice beach and reasonable rooms are thrown in to cover the primary motive.

Then Natalee, who is not prepared to be on her own, having been under the thumb of a domineering mother for 18 years, is suddenly set free and makes some really bad decisions.

Then Joran who has had too little direction in life and may have serious problems with controlling his own behavior crosses paths with easy prey, and who knows what happened.

Throw in an incompetent Aruban beauracy and a legal system straight out of the dark ages, not to mention a predatory US press pressuring for quick results, and you have this circus that we all watch, somewhat like the great Roman circuses, complete with Christians and lions.  

And this is our entertainment, we voyuers of violence and depravity. What will be the next big mess that fixates us?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 01:50:31 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Renee Van Hannikan


Also listed as RENEE VAN HANEGEM


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 24, 2005, 01:50:37 AM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Hi 6 prs....(sorry, I am more of a football fan) :-)

Waiting, yes I did get your PM but I have been on the road all day. Give me awhile (or maybe Cali has something?)
Thanks Kerin.

Cali, do you happen to have a link to Max Arends?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 01:50:48 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.

Mom's a teach at ISA?  Sorry, couldn't resist a low blow  :P


Title: Re: Not Lorenzo Van Rijn, as in Rembrandt?
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 01:50:59 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
I've been researching the mystery Lorenzo, but there doesn't even seem to be consensus on the correct last name.


What other last name besides "van Rijn" has there been mentioned?  Sheesh, that's the one I've been operating with--not that I'm having much more luck, but I wrote all that many, many posts ago.


It was corrected by one of the posters from Aruba to be "van gijn."  But nobody confirmed.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 01:51:09 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Well, the only way it could be pre-meditated is what??????  What would be the scenario that would make it pre-meditated??????


I have been wondering the same thing since Red posted this info.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 01:51:11 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.


His mom said that he didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. I guess if you're out in the casinos till 3:00am, yeah it might be hard to wake-up! :lol:


Title: van gijn
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:51:21 AM
no van rijn in aruba phone book
only van gijn is auto rental agency,  no vw dealer by that name, no residence


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 01:51:25 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.


I didn't watch that interview Nancy, was looking for it and somebody provided a link to it on Fox but I still couldn't find it. I would have liked to watch that. Perhaps this is why she is holding up so well, she knows something we do not. If she thinks Natalee is alive, she may have good reason to believe, that from her sources within this investigation, they have told her they believe she is alive and being held captive somewhere.


I think I posted the link for you, or someone.

Go to the link and look at the top right...there's a heading that says something like "FREE FOX VIDEOS"  below it is a picture of Beth and a link to the video.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html

You won't see the box unless your screen is open all the way. I just noticed my bookmarks are open now and I had to scroll to the right to see the box.


Sorry Nancy, still not finding it on that page. At the top right of that page is offered "videos" I clicked on that but not interview with beth there. Who was interviewing her?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:52:10 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Hi 6 prs....(sorry, I am more of a football fan) :-)

Waiting, yes I did get your PM but I have been on the road all day. Give me awhile (or maybe Cali has something?)
Thanks Kerin.

Cali, do you happen to have a link to Max Arends?


http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=PZBg5CRvFQPGDGKF


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:53:06 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.


His mom said that he didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. I guess if you're out in the casinos till 3:00am, yeah it might be hard to wake-up! :lol:

Yeah but honor roll??? lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 01:53:08 AM
Quote from: "neil"
Wake me up when it is over.

I find the whole picture ugly and getting uglier.

First American teens are sent to an island where the prime reason for going is gambling, booze and the ready availability of drugs and prostitutes, oh yes and a nice beach and reasonable rooms are thrown in to cover the primary motive.

Then Natalee, who is not prepared to be on her own, having been under the thumb of a domineering mother for 18 years, is suddenly set free and makes some really bad decisions.

Then Joran who has had too little direction in life and may have serious problems with controlling his own behavior crosses paths with easy prey, and who knows what happened.

Throw in an incompetent Aruban beauracy and a legal system straight out of the dark ages, not to mention a predatory US press pressuring for quick results, and you have this circus that we all watch, somewhat like the great Roman circuses, complete with Christians and lions.  

And this is our entertainment, we voyuers of violence and depravity. What will be the next big mess that fixates us?


prostitutes?

domineering mother?

voyeurs of violence and depravity?

Ok, Neil. We'll wake you up when it's over. Bye!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 01:53:37 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
With the interview with Larry King Live, the spokes person for attourney general in aruba, it seems the word for PVDS arrest is....REASONABLE SUSPICION OF PRE-MEDITATED MURDER,(the same as the other 4 arrested)...like Red has noted on the main page.

Interesting, very interesting.


Makes no sense at all. Where are the witnesses? Where is the physical evidence. The Aruban system is completely ridiculous.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 01:54:30 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Well, the only way it could be pre-meditated is what??????  What would be the scenario that would make it pre-meditated??????


They sexually assaulted her and were afraid that she might tell, then thought they had to get rid of her(killed her)?

Or, they knowingly gave her drugs to rape her and they killed her by overdose?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 01:54:42 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.


I didn't watch that interview Nancy, was looking for it and somebody provided a link to it on Fox but I still couldn't find it. I would have liked to watch that. Perhaps this is why she is holding up so well, she knows something we do not. If she thinks Natalee is alive, she may have good reason to believe, that from her sources within this investigation, they have told her they believe she is alive and being held captive somewhere.


I think I posted the link for you, or someone.

Go to the link and look at the top right...there's a heading that says something like "FREE FOX VIDEOS"  below it is a picture of Beth and a link to the video.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html

You won't see the box unless your screen is open all the way. I just noticed my bookmarks are open now and I had to scroll to the right to see the box.


Sorry Nancy, still not finding it on that page. At the top right of that page is offered "videos" I clicked on that but not interview with beth there. Who was interviewing her?


Try this link (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?062305/hc_holloway_062305&Hannity_Colmes&Natalee%26%2339%3Bs%20Mom%20&acc&Hannity%26Colmes&-1&new) and see if it works.


Title: texas equusearch
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 01:54:57 AM
We haven't heard much about the texas equusearch group today.  Someone (who was near Houston I believe) posted last night that some members were shown live on local tv flying out.  Also, if they are/were having trouble getting their dogs down there can we assume they won't be taking their horses?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 01:55:08 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
With the interview with Larry King Live, the spokes person for attourney general in aruba, it seems the word for PVDS arrest is....REASONABLE SUSPICION OF PRE-MEDITATED MURDER,(the same as the other 4 arrested)...like Red has noted on the main page.

Interesting, very interesting.


Hmmm. Could be that they have reasonable suspicion of premeditated murder, manslaughter, or the equivalent thereof, kidnapping, etc. As I recall, they seem to group the possibilities together when they make arrests. Not sure it means they necessarily think that it was a premeditated murder. Or am I wrong this time?


It means they dont have anything at all, its like hey Joran we arrested your dad and if you don't start confessing were gonna arrest your mom too. :shock:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 01:55:50 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "bluebob"
Well, the only way it could be pre-meditated is what??????  What would be the scenario that would make it pre-meditated??????


They sexually assaulted her and were afraid that she might tell, then thought they had to get rid of her(killed her)?

Or, they knowingly gave her drugs to rape her and they killed her by overdose?


That second scenario wouldn't be murder 1. But about the most heinous example of 2nd degree I can think of. (If this had happened in the states, that is).


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 01:56:09 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
I apologize if this is off topic, but did any of you see the segment on Nancy Grace tonight where they talked about the released transcript of Couey's confession in the Jessica Lunsford case?


Yes, very disturbing details  :cry:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:56:11 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I suggest you not give up on this. I thought I remembered someone in Aruba knowing of this person? Can they help confirm the last name? Are they listed in a directory?  Or, phone book?  Or real estate tax roll?   I'm not sure how pubic records work in Aruba, in this country you can usually find some online for free...at least SS records.  It's pretty easy in this country to do great research on someone online and with phone calls to access public records...not sure there.  Maybe some of our Arubans would  give you info on that.

One thing to remember. Quite often the story you started out with evolves into a completely different story.  Say you can't link up the possible relationship to Paulas..but, in your research you find this guy was interviewed and you find a new piece of evidence on the connections LE is making in solving this case.  THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE....many times research can confirm what you origninally thought..or, it can take you into another interesting direction.

Find out how records work in Aruba.  Are they made as public as they are here?  If not, see if there's an easy way to confirm some of the basic details on this guy. Ask around to see if there's someone down there willing to make a few bucks doing a search for you.  Offer to buy them dinner...

You can PM me or email me...I'm not a wizard but I can help you problem solve if you need it.

Good luck.


I'm not sure why you are pushing forum members to insert themselves into an ongoing criminal investigation ... not good, not good at all!  We should never do anything invasive or intrusive in trying to figure out how the puzzle pieces fit!  Aaaggh!  Stumbling onto something that tips off a bad guy is not right!  

Helping LE is fine, and I send info in all the time, but they know more than we do!  I just try to be an extra pair of eyes and an extra brain for them, not arms and legs!  Nooooo!  This is *just* a public forum--we don't have the backing of a major media outlet, who would have the insurance to cover the bad things that could happen with Joe Citizen out there gumshoeing or possibly libeling or slandering someone.  Uh-uh!


Investigative reporters do it everyday...Bloggers do it everyday. Some of the best research and political breaking news stories in recent months have come from investigative bloggers.  Media, journalists, independent reporters, etc. are all meant to be the watchdog of government, that includes LE...if someone here has a story, they should use their freedom of speech and power of the pen to research it and write it.  So what if it doesn't break the case.  Or, what if their research is truly a help to investigators?

The wave of blogging and journalism is independent news.

I do agree LE probably knows 10 times what we know...they're way ahead of anything we think are huge scoops...but, sometimes they're not...the benefit of a forum like this is sometimes individuals feel more comfortable coming here with info, they aren't ready to share with authorities. I'm not saying it's right...but, it's true.

Keep on doing your research!  In the least you could have yourself a nice story to publish on Scared Monkeys or Dan's site.


Title: Re: van gijn
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 01:56:17 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
no van rijn in aruba phone book
only van gijn is auto rental agency,  no vw dealer by that name, no residence


Thanks iquitos.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 01:56:28 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.

Mom's a teach at ISA?  Sorry, couldn't resist a low blow  :P


good point though


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 01:56:37 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
With the interview with Larry King Live, the spokes person for attourney general in aruba, it seems the word for PVDS arrest is....REASONABLE SUSPICION OF PRE-MEDITATED MURDER,(the same as the other 4 arrested)...like Red has noted on the main page.

Interesting, very interesting.


Hmmm. Could be that they have reasonable suspicion of premeditated murder, manslaughter, or the equivalent thereof, kidnapping, etc. As I recall, they seem to group the possibilities together when they make arrests. Not sure it means they necessarily think that it was a premeditated murder. Or am I wrong this time?


It means they dont have anything at all, its like hey Joran we arrested your dad and if you don't start confessing were gonna arrest your mom too. :shock:


inspector, afraid that you might be right.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 01:56:42 AM
I can see pre-meditated in the first scenario, but in the second. . .that would be stretching it.  But legal terms there may include different things than here.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 01:56:52 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.


His mom said that he didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. I guess if you're out in the casinos till 3:00am, yeah it might be hard to wake-up! :lol:

Yeah but honor roll??? lol


Maybe playing blackjack helped him in math! :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:57:16 AM
Quote from: "neil"
Wake me up when it is over.

I find the whole picture ugly and getting uglier.

First American teens are sent to an island where the prime reason for going is gambling, booze and the ready availability of drugs and prostitutes, oh yes and a nice beach and reasonable rooms are thrown in to cover the primary motive.

Then Natalee, who is not prepared to be on her own, having been under the thumb of a domineering mother for 18 years, is suddenly set free and makes some really bad decisions.

Then Joran who has had too little direction in life and may have serious problems with controlling his own behavior crosses paths with easy prey, and who knows what happened.

Throw in an incompetent Aruban beauracy and a legal system straight out of the dark ages, not to mention a predatory US press pressuring for quick results, and you have this circus that we all watch, somewhat like the great Roman circuses, complete with Christians and lions.  

And this is our entertainment, we voyuers of violence and depravity. What will be the next big mess that fixates us?


good post  aunt twitty said today natalee has been in the family since 7 years.  holloway has a 7 year old by his new wife.  when did they jug/beth divorce?  did natalee stay with mom or dad?  can you imagine laid back patient and considerate holloway married to beth?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 01:58:54 AM
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 01:59:03 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Juvenal"
I apologize if this is off topic, but did any of you see the segment on Nancy Grace tonight where they talked about the released transcript of Couey's confession in the Jessica Lunsford case?


Yes, very disturbing details  :cry:


I thought that words would fail the talking heads and experts she trotted out. It seemed that it almost did at a couple of points, but they went ahead and talked anyway.

How can you even find words to describe this, without making a mockery of it? This is the worst case like this I've ever heard of.

It almost makes we want to go into LE/criminal prosecution as a career.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 01:59:12 AM
They both seem married to people that fit them well now, though.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 24, 2005, 01:59:16 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Hi 6 prs....(sorry, I am more of a football fan) :-)

Waiting, yes I did get your PM but I have been on the road all day. Give me awhile (or maybe Cali has something?)
Thanks Kerin.

Cali, do you happen to have a link to Max Arends?


http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=PZBg5CRvFQPGDGKF
THANK YOU CALI!!  I knew one of you would have it!!


Title: Re: van gijn
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 01:59:58 AM
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
no van rijn in aruba phone book
only van gijn is auto rental agency,  no vw dealer by that name, no residence


Thanks iquitos.


The Aruban bloggers arubagirl and americaninaruba seemed to know who this guy is. arubagirl spelled it Van Rijn. americaninaruba spelled it Van Geijn. Perhaps if you PM those bloggers they can help you. :roll:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 02:00:53 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?


Title: Huh
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 02:01:10 AM
"Gijn" doesn't even sound like "Rijn," except they "rhyme" like "Rhine," lol.  But there IS a lady named "van Rijn" listed in Aruba, which fits with the name of a widow, an older one who still has a land line with a phone listing.  

I can understand all the youngers being hard-to-find because of their cell phones, but that one fit and I liked the irony of a possible earlier liaison of Paulus's in Holland being later married to a distant offspring of Rembrandt--then Paulus marrying an art teacher.  It was just so symmetrical!

Bah.  Pish tosh.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 02:01:22 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.


His mom said that he didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. I guess if you're out in the casinos till 3:00am, yeah it might be hard to wake-up! :lol:

Yeah but honor roll??? lol

lol Starting to wonder if it wasn't poker he was playing.. he played a texas hold'em tournament...odd for a poker player to play blackjack

Maybe playing blackjack helped him in math! :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 02:02:05 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


You have to keep in mind the Dutch system. Seems like they can arrest anyone for anything with now evidence whatsoever. Remember the 2 security guards?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 02:02:17 AM
Lorenzo van Rijn must not be a VDS because he does not have a tickle site.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 02:02:54 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Lorenzo van Rijn must not be a VDS because he does not have a tickle site.


LOL !!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 02:03:13 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "neil"
Wake me up when it is over.

I find the whole picture ugly and getting uglier.

First American teens are sent to an island where the prime reason for going is gambling, booze and the ready availability of drugs and prostitutes, oh yes and a nice beach and reasonable rooms are thrown in to cover the primary motive.

Then Natalee, who is not prepared to be on her own, having been under the thumb of a domineering mother for 18 years, is suddenly set free and makes some really bad decisions.

Then Joran who has had too little direction in life and may have serious problems with controlling his own behavior crosses paths with easy prey, and who knows what happened.

Throw in an incompetent Aruban beauracy and a legal system straight out of the dark ages, not to mention a predatory US press pressuring for quick results, and you have this circus that we all watch, somewhat like the great Roman circuses, complete with Christians and lions.  

And this is our entertainment, we voyuers of violence and depravity. What will be the next big mess that fixates us?


good post  aunt twitty said today natalee has been in the family since 7 years.  holloway has a 7 year old by his new wife.  when did they jug/beth divorce?  did natalee stay with mom or dad?  can you imagine laid back patient and considerate holloway married to beth?


I don't think that's being fair to her. You're seeing her when her child has disappeared without a trace. She's had to fight tooth and nail to get any answers, any action at all. Of course she seems a little domineering right now. I can only hope that I would be that domineering in such a situation. We don't know what she was like day to day.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 02:04:16 AM
Hannity and Colmes is on again...for anyone who missed Beth's interview the first time around.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:04:59 AM
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 02:05:44 AM
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)


This theory is still a good one and premeditation might fit here if Joran took her to the beach as a "payment" to drug dealers that were already there... or maybe Steve Croes was the guy who needed her as payment, so Joran was helping his friend out, offered Natalee, since he apparantly didn't win enough at blackjack that night...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 02:06:16 AM
I have had to fight really hard in life/death situations for loved ones.  Even the meekest person will fight like a mother bear for someone she loves.  I really get the impression that Beth is a good mother to Natalee and her determination now shouldn't be taken as an overbearing mother in normal times.


Title: Re: texas equusearch
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 02:07:39 AM
Quote from: "dl3fan"
We haven't heard much about the texas equusearch group today.  Someone (who was near Houston I believe) posted last night that some members were shown live on local tv flying out.  Also, if they are/were having trouble getting their dogs down there can we assume they won't be taking their horses?


That was me.  We didn't hear a word about them today, which means to me that Tim & the skeleton crew (sorry--I mean the first 3 that went with him) hit the ground running and were getting the lay of the land and having meetings all over the island to get the logistics in place.  Didn't bother me that there wasn't coverage, even here in their hometown.

I did learn that Tim and the first group left around 7PM last night, not 10PM like I thought, so they got a really good head start on the day today.  The rest won't be there until Friday and I'm not certain if the dogs are with Tim or if they're going in the Friday group.  (No, no horses!)  I did learn that they'll have divers, too, which I wasn't certain about.  It's harder to get them out for long trips. (Expensive down time for them, since they're volunteers.)

Today (Thursday) we should hear something about what they're up to.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:08:01 AM
Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.


Title: Re: Huh
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 02:08:46 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
"Gijn" doesn't even sound like "Rijn," except they "rhyme" like "Rhine," lol.  But there IS a lady named "van Rijn" listed in Aruba, which fits with the name of a widow, an older one who still has a land line with a phone listing.  

I can understand all the youngers being hard-to-find because of their cell phones, but that one fit and I liked the irony of a possible earlier liaison of Paulus's in Holland being later married to a distant offspring of Rembrandt--then Paulus marrying an art teacher.  It was just so symmetrical!

Bah.  Pish tosh.


LOL. Add to that the fact that every search engine in which you place the name comes up with Return of the Prodigal Son and there's a certain poetry at work.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 02:09:06 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.


Did you notice the monkey's hand looking to try to grab Joran? lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:10:28 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.


Did you notice the monkey's hand looking to try to grab Joran? lol

LOL Saw that last night...but didn't realize it was at C'nC's.  So much is missed when one is speed reading :)


Title: texas equusearch
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 02:10:44 AM
Itawamba, thanks for the update on the texas equusearch team.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Bamagal73 on June 24, 2005, 02:11:29 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 02:12:28 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.


Did you notice the monkey's hand looking to try to grab Joran? lol


Yeah, and didja notice Urine doing the Bunny Hop?  Hop, hop, hop?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 02:13:32 AM
Here's a late-night-outside-the-box thought....

Does Joran's cell phone have a built-in camera?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:13:44 AM
Quote from: "Bamagal73"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?


I don't think that administering rohypnol is legal. Can't it be likened to administering poison?  In both cases, you don't know what dosage can kill.  Esp. the case when mixed with alcohol.

In any case, I think we're trying to make the distinction between premeditated and not?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 02:15:26 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.


I didn't watch that interview Nancy, was looking for it and somebody provided a link to it on Fox but I still couldn't find it. I would have liked to watch that. Perhaps this is why she is holding up so well, she knows something we do not. If she thinks Natalee is alive, she may have good reason to believe, that from her sources within this investigation, they have told her they believe she is alive and being held captive somewhere.


I think I posted the link for you, or someone.

Go to the link and look at the top right...there's a heading that says something like "FREE FOX VIDEOS"  below it is a picture of Beth and a link to the video.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html

You won't see the box unless your screen is open all the way. I just noticed my bookmarks are open now and I had to scroll to the right to see the box.


Sorry Nancy, still not finding it on that page. At the top right of that page is offered "videos" I clicked on that but not interview with beth there. Who was interviewing her?


Try this link (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?062305/hc_holloway_062305&Hannity_Colmes&Natalee%26%2339%3Bs%20Mom%20&acc&Hannity%26Colmes&-1&new) and see if it works.


Holy shit, this sheds a new light on this investigation, watching this video with Beth and what she has to say.

Points she mentioned in this interview that we don't know about. Inside information between the Hollaways and the Van der Sloots...

1. More people have to be questioned and arrested

2. More people involved. FBI, local authorities know who they are.

3. My daughter has been "kidnapped" and the 3 individuals in custody know what happened.

4. Beth believes she is alive.

5. She believes she is on the island being held

6. The interview with her and Van der sloots(Mr.) she knows he knows something and this was confirmed when she was at his home.

7. This was not a contencious meeting Beth says

8. Beth has confirmation now that he has some information.(Mr. VDS)

9. The LE and investigative team are NOT keeping them in the dark.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 02:15:40 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
I have had to fight really hard in life/death situations for loved ones.  Even the meekest person will fight like a mother bear for someone she loves.  I really get the impression that Beth is a good mother to Natalee and her determination now shouldn't be taken as an overbearing mother in normal times.


Took this out of the Bible: (Hosea 13:8 )

I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

Loose translation: Nobody kicks a** like a mother who has her cub stolen!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Bamagal73 on June 24, 2005, 02:15:46 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Bamagal73"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?


I don't think that administering rohypnol is legal. Can't it be likened to administering poison?  In both cases, you don't know what dosage can kill.  Esp. the case when mixed with alcohol.

In any case, I think we're trying to make the distinction between premeditated and not?


That's why I stated 'Accidental" death, as for premeditated.  I highly doubt it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 02:16:04 AM
Quote from: "Scott"
Here's a late-night-outside-the-box thought....

Does Joran's cell phone have a built-in camera?


Who knows Scott but the police took that out of his house too.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 02:16:19 AM
Well, if he did give her a roofie, you would think they could at least charge him with practicing medicine without a license....
Why would he stoop to that though?
I'm sure there are plenty of horny tourists to go around there.  I'm sure he could have found a "willing" one.


Title: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 02:17:44 AM
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


Title: Re: van gijn
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
no van rijn in aruba phone book
only van gijn is auto rental agency,  no vw dealer by that name, no residence


Thanks iquitos.


Yes, there is a Deborah vR on Fahrenheit Street.



(I figured that means she is HOT, HOT, HOT, right?)  (Oops, that might be Lorenzo's mother we're talking about.)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 02:19:40 AM
Quote from: "6prs'o'klompen"
Well, if he did give her a roofie, you would think they could at least charge him with practicing medicine without a license....
Why would he stoop to that though?
I'm sure there are plenty of horny tourists to go around there.  I'm sure he could have found a "willing" one.


that's what i can't figure out unless they were looking for some serial group activity  can't get my head around it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:19:44 AM
I wouldn't call a death from rohypnol 'accidental' by any means.

In any case, regarding the premeditated murder possibility, I think the Aruban authorities have a PR disaster on their hands, they will lean towards the harshest charge. Just my opinion.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 02:20:24 AM
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


Title: Re: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 02:20:30 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


We posted at the same time.  We're not supposed to publish individuals' home phone numbers.


Title: The Dark side
Post by: LouLou on June 24, 2005, 02:20:53 AM
The Dark side has some interesting things to say about the case. There are about 3 articles that I've read. They are more reflective than factual reporting but the man has an excellent writing style.

Todays blog is about Carlos n. Charlies. this is the link

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html


Title: Re: van gijn
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 02:21:23 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "iquitos"
no van rijn in aruba phone book
only van gijn is auto rental agency,  no vw dealer by that name, no residence


Thanks iquitos.


Yes, there is a Deborah vR on Fahrenheit Street.



(I figured that means she is HOT, HOT, HOT, right?)  (Oops, that might be Lorenzo's mother we're talking about.)


Fahrenheit Street?  Is Michael Moore gonna answer?


Title: Re: The Dark side
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:21:42 AM
Quote from: "LouLou"
The Dark side has some interesting things to say about the case. There are about 3 articles that I've read. They are more reflective than factual reporting but the man has an excellent writing style.

Todays blog is about Carlos n. Charlies. this is the link

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html

That's where I saw the monkey! :)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 02:22:56 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I wouldn't call a death from rohypnol 'accidental' by any means.

In any case, regarding the premeditated murder possibility, I think the Aruban authorities have a PR disaster on their hands, they will lean towards the harshest charge. Just my opinion.
 

if they can stretch this thing out for 160 days beth and jug may tire and need to get back to work.  then they can have a prolonged trail or even drop charges.  i agree with a guy from larry king and a poster here that they may be grasping at straws and desperate for somebody to confess even though they might not have the right guy/s


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 02:24:07 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Bamagal73"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?


I don't think that administering rohypnol is legal. Can't it be likened to administering poison?  In both cases, you don't know what dosage can kill.  Esp. the case when mixed with alcohol.

In any case, I think we're trying to make the distinction between premeditated and not?


So, how do you think the elder VDS fit into this equation?   They are all being held under premeditation theory.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:25:57 AM
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Bamagal73"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?


I don't think that administering rohypnol is legal. Can't it be likened to administering poison?  In both cases, you don't know what dosage can kill.  Esp. the case when mixed with alcohol.

In any case, I think we're trying to make the distinction between premeditated and not?


So, how do you think the elder VDS fit into this equation?   They are all being held under premeditation theory.

If they (not sure who 'they' are yet) get tried as a group, and VDS the elder helped dispose of the body, that's where I imagine he would fit in.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Vole on June 24, 2005, 02:26:00 AM
They should just put the whole island under arrest, save a lot of time.
I have tremendous admiration for Beth Twitty, she did look very tired tonight. I am sure when she is alone at night with her husband is when she falls apart. My prayers are with her that God continues to give her the stength that she will need to see this to the end. I hope Natalee is found soon.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 02:29:03 AM
::::listening to crickets:::::

Hellooooo? lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: neil on June 24, 2005, 02:30:08 AM
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 02:31:32 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.


His mom said that he didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. I guess if you're out in the casinos till 3:00am, yeah it might be hard to wake-up! :lol:

Yeah but honor roll??? lol


Maybe playing blackjack helped him in math! :lol:


My boys, at that age would have went to bed at 11:00 and I still had a hard time getting them up in the morning. They are growing, they are tired, and 7:00 a.m. is hard thing to wake up to for teenagers. Their bodies are changing, going through hormonal changes.

It has been brought up recently that kids should maybe start their school day later because of this. It isn't normal to the changing hormones as teenagers.

I somewhat agree with that.


Title: Re: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 02:31:53 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


Aha!  You found it using their system of alphabetizing.

I'm glad it's late.  It'd be a shame to get that "don't publish phone numbers & addresses" fight going again.  Just kidding.  

This Lorenzo thing has had me crazy for days.  I can usually find SOMETHING.  Not on this one, no matter what spelling of the name...

Do we have a street for the "spray painted house" mentioned earlier?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:33:08 AM
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Title: Re: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 02:34:13 AM
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


Aha!  You found it using their system of alphabetizing.

I'm glad it's late.  It'd be a shame to get that "don't publish phone numbers & addresses" fight going again.  Just kidding.  

This Lorenzo thing has had me crazy for days.  I can usually find SOMETHING.  Not on this one, no matter what spelling of the name...


I knew someone was looking for this information, but couldn't remember who.   It's late and I my brain has had it. .
Good night all.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 02:34:39 AM
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Bamagal73"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?


I don't think that administering rohypnol is legal. Can't it be likened to administering poison?  In both cases, you don't know what dosage can kill.  Esp. the case when mixed with alcohol.

In any case, I think we're trying to make the distinction between premeditated and not?


So, how do you think the elder VDS fit into this equation?   They are all being held under premeditation theory.


Maybe PVDS requested that Joran bring someone home for him, since mom's gone and all ....."I won't tell if you won't"


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 02:36:19 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Juvenal"
I apologize if this is off topic, but did any of you see the segment on Nancy Grace tonight where they talked about the released transcript of Couey's confession in the Jessica Lunsford case?


Yes, very disturbing details  :cry:


I thought that words would fail the talking heads and experts she trotted out. It seemed that it almost did at a couple of points, but they went ahead and talked anyway.

How can you even find words to describe this, without making a mockery of it? This is the worst case like this I've ever heard of.

It almost makes we want to go into LE/criminal prosecution as a career.


I was disturbed that the gory details had to be brought forward on national television. I was sickened by the fact that this guy admitted to it, but then....they have to spill the gory details publicly??

What is wrong with our world today and the media?

It's sick. Too much information, after the fact.


Title: Re: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 02:36:26 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391



If I am not mistaken, that is Joran's address


Title: girl for dad
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 02:36:41 AM
Quote from: "6prs'o'klompen"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Bamagal73"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.


In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?


Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?


I don't think that administering rohypnol is legal. Can't it be likened to administering poison?  In both cases, you don't know what dosage can kill.  Esp. the case when mixed with alcohol.

In any case, I think we're trying to make the distinction between premeditated and not?


So, how do you think the elder VDS fit into this equation?   They are all being held under premeditation theory.


Maybe PVDS requested that Joran bring someone home for him, since mom's gone and all ....."I won't tell if you won't"


I have a tough time believing that even Joran would bring home a female for his dad to cheat on his mom with.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 02:36:54 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
::::listening to crickets:::::

Hellooooo? lol


was reading that article you posted.....
 :shock:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 02:39:28 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


Title: Re: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:39:52 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391



If I am not mistaken, that is Joran's address

Nah, that would be Montanja street, WW ;)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 02:40:04 AM
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


veery insightful niel.  bravo


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LostinTime on June 24, 2005, 02:40:21 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 :shock:


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.


I didn't watch that interview Nancy, was looking for it and somebody provided a link to it on Fox but I still couldn't find it. I would have liked to watch that. Perhaps this is why she is holding up so well, she knows something we do not. If she thinks Natalee is alive, she may have good reason to believe, that from her sources within this investigation, they have told her they believe she is alive and being held captive somewhere.


I think I posted the link for you, or someone.

Go to the link and look at the top right...there's a heading that says something like "FREE FOX VIDEOS"  below it is a picture of Beth and a link to the video.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html

You won't see the box unless your screen is open all the way. I just noticed my bookmarks are open now and I had to scroll to the right to see the box.


Sorry Nancy, still not finding it on that page. At the top right of that page is offered "videos" I clicked on that but not interview with beth there. Who was interviewing her?


Try this link (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?062305/hc_holloway_062305&Hannity_Colmes&Natalee%26%2339%3Bs%20Mom%20&acc&Hannity%26Colmes&-1&new) and see if it works.


Holy shit, this sheds a new light on this investigation, watching this video with Beth and what she has to say.

Points she mentioned in this interview that we don't know about. Inside information between the Hollaways and the Van der Sloots...

1. More people have to be questioned and arrested

2. More people involved. FBI, local authorities know who they are.

3. My daughter has been "kidnapped" and the 3 individuals in custody know what happened.

4. Beth believes she is alive.

5. She believes she is on the island being held

6. The interview with her and Van der sloots(Mr.) she knows he knows something and this was confirmed when she was at his home.

7. This was not a contencious meeting Beth says

8. Beth has confirmation now that he has some information.(Mr. VDS)

9. The LE and investigative team are NOT keeping them in the dark.


It's not really unusual for someone to keep there composure under undue stress and not be that emotional.  I call it automatic pilot, you do what needs to be done, for your own sanity and the people around you.  You or I as the case was break down later.  But you do what you feel you need to do at that time.  Alot of people don't understand that and view it in a negative way, everybody handles things in there own way, I'm reserved and that's how I handle things , I understand what she's doing and i am amazed at her strength.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 02:42:13 AM
Gotta jump back in for a minute. Reading and catching up w/o posting is causing sensory overload. So much to absorb!

There is NO WAY the mayor of Birmingham has a shred of inside info. Bernard Kincaid is a self-absorbed crackpot and there is not a chance in the world that anyone close to the Twitty/Holloway family would divulge such a thing to him. A LOT more than Red Mountain separates B'ham city proper and Mountain Brook, as you can well imagine. Spencer Bachus and Jeff Sessions have all the scoops, and have from the beginning. Bear in mind also that Condoleeza Rice is originally from Birmingham hint hint.

There is an angle which has gone unexplored here... that is possible connections between PVDS and the underworld, both in the Caribbean and in Europe.

One statement tonight stood out: Marianne Croes said that PVDS is a suspect in the DISAPPEARANCE, not JUST a coverup, and she made that quite clear and made the DISTINCTION quite clear, not like her usual we-cannot-disclose-that-info style.

For all we know Natalee could as easily be in Amsterdam as in Venezuela.
Just somethin' to think on, guys.


Title: Re: The Dark side
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 02:42:57 AM
Quote from: "LouLou"
The Dark side has some interesting things to say about the case. There are about 3 articles that I've read. They are more reflective than factual reporting but the man has an excellent writing style.

Todays blog is about Carlos n. Charlies. this is the link

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html


Thanks for the link.  I just skimmed the article--no time for *real* reading these days!  I was hoping it was someone else's take on Carlos & Charlie's that is like mine -- and Greta Van Susteren's (who was scared to death of the place).

Egad!  I hate those places with a passion.  Senor Frog's is only a little bit better, by a micromillimeter.

I had to travel all over Mexico for work and was forced to go to every C&C's along all of the Mexican coasts and I could not believe the things I saw, heard, had done to me, on and on.  For me, the very worst was that I had to *constantly* fight off (and I mean *fight*, like slapping hands and pushing away roughly) these idiot men waiters or whatever they were that INSISTED on trying to spray liquor into my mouth out of wineskins and water guns and all kinds of crap like that.

I don't drink alcohol and I didn't want *anything* near me like that.  A simple "no!," with a little Church Lady finger-wag, which works with the vendors in the mercados who want "demaciado" -- too much -- for their wares, didn't faze these guys.  They thought it was a coy little challenge to make them TRY harder to pour booze down my throat.

I finally got one of my Mexican clients to tell me how to say "I am an alcoholic" in Spanish, so maybe they would realize I was serious as hell!  You know, like I'm frigging ALLERGIC to the crap?  Noppppppeeee.  "Yo soy alcoholico" to them meant "I love booze and I want more!"  I could've sued the pants off of every one of those places if it happened in the US.  It was beyond contemptible, to me.

And that is just ONE thing I hated about them.  The sex stuff is a whole 'nuther story.  Gad, I HATE Carlos & Charlie's!!


Title: I never did feel any energy from lighthouse OR the beach
Post by: Cerulean on June 24, 2005, 02:43:06 AM
I never did feel any energy from either the lighthouse OR the beach near the hotels.  I thought that Joran's apartment might have some activity and when I read that Natalee's mother felt her daughter's energy there I seconded it.

I think she is alive and well although not a runaway or anything like that.

I like the prosecutor's spokesperson Mariane Croes.  She's doing a good job.  Please don't just slam people for no reason.


Title: riehl's latest
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 02:43:14 AM
riehl's latest take

Thursday, June 23, 2005

Two Observations

One is a personal observation I am only posting after seeing the interview with Mrs. Kalpoe tonight on Fox. I can remember when this all started and I was reviewing the boy's websites.

Just as Joran's website was noteworthy for a significant number of pictures from partying and the clubs, casinos, etc. .. the site of Satish was the opposite.

I remember pictures from field trips, archeological sites, art and so forth - I was genuinely struck by the difference in the two boys. That doesn't mean anything as far as guilt, or innocence, but it was a genuine observation.

The second observation will sound like gossip, which basically, it is - please take that into account. If it didn't come through an extremely reliable source on the island, I would not mention it at all.

In talking with an adult professional from Aruba who knew Joran, the individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath."

I doubt that the source of these statements is a certified psychologist, but if he is repeating these types of statements to individuals in and around the investigation, it will likely come out and be proven or disproven in any potential trial. And noone should be considered guilty of anything without one.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 02:46:31 AM
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


With all respect, Neil, I don't think this illuminates anything. Beth Twitty is not in a normal situation right now. You can't even compare the way she is now with how she would be day to day.

If you have your child disappear, with all these swirling rumors about what might have happened to her, there's something wrong with you if you can't get motivated to start demanding some answers.

And for you to utter platitudes about letting kids grow up when you have absolutely no knowledge about Natalee's relationship with her mom is the emptiest speculation I've seen in this forum.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:47:10 AM
BTW, I did find a 'Van Gijn' in the phonebook, but first name is Johannes.

Not posting the number - most likely unrelated anyway.


Title: BHT interview/email
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 02:48:44 AM
On the replay of Hannity & Colmes on Fox right now, Beth mentioned that she reads every card, letter, and email she gets.  Anyone know the proper email addr or snail mail addr to send her our thoughts/prayers?


Title: Re: BHT interview/email
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:50:36 AM
Quote from: "dl3fan"
On the replay of Hannity & Colmes on Fox right now, Beth mentioned that she reads every card, letter, and email she gets.  Anyone know the proper email addr or snail mail addr to send her our thoughts/prayers?

I would assume...

Holiday Inn SunSpree Resort
ARUBA-BEACH RESORT & CASINO
J. E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD #230
ARUBA, ***
ARUBA
Tel: 297-58-63600
Fax: 297-58-65165
Email: reservations@sunspree-aruba.com


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: 6prs'o'klompen on June 24, 2005, 02:53:06 AM
well, folks, time for bed
I'm getting scoliosis and carpal eyeball
G'nite!


Title: darkside
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 02:53:09 AM
thanks for the darkside piece.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 02:54:14 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


I don't "get" that, either.  But it was just one girl's comment--and maybe she has a different perspective than some of the other friends.  Like, looking at it with a negative spin on it.  I can't figure out why others said Nat had been with *with* or seen with Joran several days before that--and this girl comes along with a *stranger* scenario on the last night.

And that *lo and behold* is the same as the alleged Deepak *version*.  Huh?  How come so many people who were there to have their own fun happened to even notice this "first meeting" of Natalee with Urine?

That doesn't make sense, even in historical perspective of what we need to examine NOW, with Natalee missing.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 02:54:27 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LouLou on June 24, 2005, 02:56:39 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LostinTime on June 24, 2005, 02:58:17 AM
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.


That's Southern Hospitality


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 02:58:25 AM
Well Lorenzo supossedly owned a speed boat.. they searched boats

Here the news article (not in english but has pictures of them searching)

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 02:59:45 AM
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

If you read Dan Rheil's latest (posted a few posts above), and it is to be believed, the whole scenario makes sense.

The unfortunate part is that Natalee may not have been targetted per se, it could have been any other girl, but she just happened to be the opportune one.


Title: work?
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 02:59:55 AM
Wondering what kind of jobs some of y'all have in order to have time to find all these pics and info on the internet?  LOL.  Glad you have the time though!


Title: Wow, that's icky
Post by: Cerulean on June 24, 2005, 03:00:17 AM
Iquitos, please make clear whether this whole thing is quoted from Dan's site or is from your own contact.

Wow, that's horrible.  If there is an adult professional (and most professionals are adults) who believed that Joran was raping and incapacitating multiple victims, then this guy is effectively responsible for not stopping this by not acting.  It was irresponsible to say the least if he believed that and didn't go to the police.  It makes you wonder about the truth of a statement like that.  

Now, I am not taking sides here.  I want Natalee back and anyone responsible prosecuted.  I was thinking earlier that Joran was innocent.  I still do but now it looks bad.  

Joran's internet profiles could support the item posted by Iquitos.  He was pretending to be eighteen and in college.  That can only be for the consumption of tourist females because everyone on an island that size would have known how old he was.  He must have been trying to make contact with them.  Now what would that appeal have been?  Women who are in town for a short while.  They might be sought out for casual sex, or because it would be difficult for them to prosecute him.   Again, I hope that item isn't true and I'm just speculating.  There are obviously less sinister explanations for what he was up to.  

Just more reasons to keep an eye on your teenage boys.  If he didn't have that separate apartment it would have been better.  My friend had a teenage boy in a set up like that and something else bad happened.

His mother was saying she could see his computer stuff.  Did she know about him lying about his age?  I doubt it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 03:02:29 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


Actually, pacific, that was neil who said that. I was arguing with him.

Nobody's saying that the platitude that "you have to let kids grow up," is wrong. It's clearly right.

Neil is saying that he can tell, apparently by looking at her facial expressions on TV, that he thinks Beth H-T is a "domineering mother." That's what I'm taking issue with. He has no idea what their homelife is like.

In my opinion, there is something wrong with a mother who, under these circumstances, doesn't take on some of the characteristics of an "angry bear" who has been robbed of her cubs! It is natural--and proper--behavior.


Title: Re: Wow, that's icky
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 03:03:43 AM
The whole content of iquitos' post is from Dan Rheil's latest post on his Rheil World View blog: http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

Quote from: "Cerulean"
Iquitos, please make clear whether this whole thing is quoted from Dan's site or is from your own contact.

Wow, that's horrible.  If there is an adult professional (and most professionals are adults) who believed that Joran was raping and incapacitating multiple victims, then this guy is effectively responsible for not stopping this by not acting.  It was irresponsible to say the least if he believed that and didn't go to the police.  It makes you wonder about the truth of a statement like that.  

Now, I am not taking sides here.  I want Natalee back and anyone responsible prosecuted.  I was thinking earlier that Joran was innocent.  I still do but now it looks bad.  

Joran's internet profiles could support the item posted by Iquitos.  He was pretending to be eighteen and in college.  That can only be for the consumption of tourist females because everyone on an island that size would have known how old he was.  He must have been trying to make contact with them.  Now what would that appeal have been?  Women who are in town for a short while.  They might be sought out for casual sex, or because it would be difficult for them to prosecute him.   Again, I hope that item isn't true and I'm just speculating.  There are obviously less sinister explanations for what he was up to.  

Just more reasons to keep an eye on your teenage boys.  If he didn't have that separate apartment it would have been better.  My friend had a teenage boy in a set up like that and something else bad happened.

His mother was saying she could see his computer stuff.  Did she know about him lying about his age?  I doubt it.


Title: premeditated
Post by: dl3fan on June 24, 2005, 03:04:00 AM
If Joran and Natalee had contact with each other before her arrival in Aruba could that be part of the "premeditated" charges?


Title: Re: work?
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:04:45 AM
Quote from: "dl3fan"
Wondering what kind of jobs some of y'all have in order to have time to find all these pics and info on the internet?  LOL.  Glad you have the time though!


Com'n now, don't call the kettle black. You are in a forum that is in search of a missing girl, cut the crap. Why would you be bothered to worry about all the pics and info on here anyway?


Title: Re: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: Rosalie on June 24, 2005, 03:04:55 AM
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


Aha!  You found it using their system of alphabetizing.

I'm glad it's late.  It'd be a shame to get that "don't publish phone numbers & addresses" fight going again.  Just kidding.  

This Lorenzo thing has had me crazy for days.  I can usually find SOMETHING.  Not on this one, no matter what spelling of the name...

Do we have a street for the "spray painted house" mentioned earlier?




MAYBE he doesnt live on Aruba. Another island or nearby mainland. ?


Title: Re: work?
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:05:59 AM
Quote from: "dl3fan"
Wondering what kind of jobs some of y'all have in order to have time to find all these pics and info on the internet?  LOL.  Glad you have the time though!


LMAO I work for an online extention campus for a university  :wink: So I have to be on the internet! lol


Title: Re: Wow, that's icky
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 03:08:48 AM
THIS IS ALL FROM DAN, NOT ME

Quote from: "Cerulean"
Iquitos, please make clear whether this whole thing is quoted from Dan's site or is from your own contact.

Wow, that's horrible.  If there is an adult professional (and most professionals are adults) who believed that Joran was raping and incapacitating multiple victims, then this guy is effectively responsible for not stopping this by not acting.  It was irresponsible to say the least if he believed that and didn't go to the police.  It makes you wonder about the truth of a statement like that.  

Now, I am not taking sides here.  I want Natalee back and anyone responsible prosecuted.  I was thinking earlier that Joran was innocent.  I still do but now it looks bad.  

Joran's internet profiles could support the item posted by Iquitos.  He was pretending to be eighteen and in college.  That can only be for the consumption of tourist females because everyone on an island that size would have known how old he was.  He must have been trying to make contact with them.  Now what would that appeal have been?  Women who are in town for a short while.  They might be sought out for casual sex, or because it would be difficult for them to prosecute him.   Again, I hope that item isn't true and I'm just speculating.  There are obviously less sinister explanations for what he was up to.  

Just more reasons to keep an eye on your teenage boys.  If he didn't have that separate apartment it would have been better.  My friend had a teenage boy in a set up like that and something else bad happened.

His mother was saying she could see his computer stuff.  Did she know about him lying about his age?  I doubt it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: stlnative on June 24, 2005, 03:10:51 AM
What can you tell me about this Lorenzo... so I can do some research on him. All I know is that he suppose to a son to Paulus Van Der Sloot.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:11:36 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


Actually, pacific, that was neil who said that. I was arguing with him.

Nobody's saying that the platitude that "you have to let kids grow up," is wrong. It's clearly right.

Neil is saying that he can tell, apparently by looking at her facial expressions on TV, that he thinks Beth H-T is a "domineering mother." That's what I'm taking issue with. He has no idea what their homelife is like.

In my opinion, there is something wrong with a mother who, under these circumstances, doesn't take on some of the characteristics of an "angry bear" who has been robbed of her cubs! It is natural--and proper--behavior.


Ohh, i agree, I know I would be acting like an angry bear. I find that Beth is a domineering mother, no doubt in my mind, her strength through this has proved just that.

My only perception is that she didn't educate her daughter leaving her country and going into a foreign country and the dangers involved.

We know that Natalee left with somewhat strangers, we know that her girlfriends would have never allowed it, had they been with her at the close of the night.


Title: Re: van rijn, phonebook
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 03:11:50 AM
Quote from: "Rosalie"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


Aha!  You found it using their system of alphabetizing.

I'm glad it's late.  It'd be a shame to get that "don't publish phone numbers & addresses" fight going again.  Just kidding.  

This Lorenzo thing has had me crazy for days.  I can usually find SOMETHING.  Not on this one, no matter what spelling of the name...

Do we have a street for the "spray painted house" mentioned earlier?




MAYBE he doesnt live on Aruba. Another island or nearby mainland. ?


LORENZO IS KNOWN TO LIVE ON ARUBA. not yelling, for emphasis only


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:12:38 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


Actually, pacific, that was neil who said that. I was arguing with him.

Nobody's saying that the platitude that "you have to let kids grow up," is wrong. It's clearly right.

Neil is saying that he can tell, apparently by looking at her facial expressions on TV, that he thinks Beth H-T is a "domineering mother." That's what I'm taking issue with. He has no idea what their homelife is like.

In my opinion, there is something wrong with a mother who, under these circumstances, doesn't take on some of the characteristics of an "angry bear" who has been robbed of her cubs! It is natural--and proper--behavior.


Ohh, i agree, I know I would be acting like an angry bear. I find that Beth is a domineering mother, no doubt in my mind, her strength through this has proved just that.

My only perception is that she didn't educate her daughter leaving her country and going into a foreign country and the dangers involved.

We know that Natalee left with somewhat strangers, we know that her girlfriends would have never allowed it, had they been with her at the close of the night.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 03:15:14 AM
Joran HAD to have had his own computer in that apartment. I can't imagine that he could have posted the stuff he put on those sites with Momma looking over his shoulder. I mean get real, it is UNHEARD OF for a teenager his age to not have a PC. Why didn't the mother mention that? Deepak apparently had his own PC.

BTW, anyone notice that Kalpoe home? It was more upscale than the VDS home! That interior was like it was just remodeled.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:16:59 AM
Quote from: "sb"
Joran HAD to have had his own computer in that apartment. I can't imagine that he could have posted the stuff he put on those sites with Momma looking over his shoulder. I mean get real, it is UNHEARD OF for a teenager his age to not have a PC. Why didn't the mother mention that? Deepak apparently had his own PC.

BTW, anyone notice that Kalpoe home? It was more upscale than the VDS home! That interior was like it was just remodeled.


Are we looking at the same house? lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:18:28 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

If you read Dan Rheil's latest (posted a few posts above), and it is to be believed, the whole scenario makes sense.

The unfortunate part is that Natalee may not have been targetted per se, it could have been any other girl, but she just happened to be the opportune one.


Hey everbody!  I just got here and havent looked back at what you refer to (re: Dan )but I've heard too much about Urine bein round a couple days, her two friends just didn't see him around to think otherwise.  I think they relate from their perspective which may be off!

What else been goin on?


Title: Chance meeting, but premeditated crime?
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 03:18:30 AM
There is another way it's possible as far as Natalee and Joran meeting by chance at the casino.  Since he's a fixture in there, he's more apt to notice whatever is "out of place" than someone who is just taking it all in for the first time.

So, he was on a winning streak and that's what attracted Natalee, supposedly, right?  I don't know about you, but I've never noticed any other casino players on a hot streak anyplace other than maybe the roulette tables or certain blackjack tables.  And of course, the big slots.

But what attracts the attention?  Other people standing around the player, sort of cheering, or gathering in a small crowd to watch in awe and wonder.  Winners are heroes!

So, what if Joran hadn't been winning that night?  Is he just such a "lucky duck" that he always seems to come out on top in everything he does--school grades, sports, Texas Hold 'em Poker, cards?  How in the world does that happen?  Very few people can pull off continual success.

Still thinking about this...more in a minute...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: stlnative on June 24, 2005, 03:18:48 AM
Please someone tell me about this Lorenzo so that I can do some research on him. Do you have his last name - what infor do you have on him?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Michael22 on June 24, 2005, 03:20:10 AM
Quote from: "sb"
Joran HAD to have had his own computer in that apartment. I can't imagine that he could have posted the stuff he put on those sites with Momma looking over his shoulder. I mean get real, it is UNHEARD OF for a teenager his age to not have a PC. Why didn't the mother mention that? Deepak apparently had his own PC.

BTW, anyone notice that Kalpoe home? It was more upscale than the VDS home! That interior was like it was just remodeled.


I did see when they took Joran's computer out and put it in the trunk
of some car seized as evidence..
looked like a custom pc silver with
looked like exhaust pipes inside
kinda cool
I sure he spared no expense when he built it..


Title: tourists vs local women
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 03:20:45 AM
have you folks seen all the spectacular native chicks on the island?  plus, prostitution is legal.  why chase tourists except that it is probably the local male sport and it keeps the local girls prisitne for marriage.  tourists as an outlet.  can't imagine it applies to joran.

a tourist is somehow dehumanized in the eyes of the local: here today, gone tomorrow, sometimes looking for trouble, no consequences, variety, lucrative, generous, rich, exotic ...  why drug them?


Title: Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip
Post by: Cerulean on June 24, 2005, 03:22:58 AM
Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cast on June 24, 2005, 03:23:18 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????
Quote
No, it really did happen on the island.  It was reported in the paper, and gave the man's name, although I can't remember what it was, only that it was dutch.

:::running through the door:::::

His name was Renee... I can't remember the last name but it was Dutch


RENEE VAN HANEGEM, his wife works nights at one of the hotels in Aruba.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:24:45 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


No offense intended but I think yall are both still way off.  Where is this crap coming from.  Of course Beth come out strong( even stronger the Jug)  Remember she is her Mom and he is her stepdad.  What would you expect?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Chaumes on June 24, 2005, 03:24:50 AM
Juvenal:
Quote
"... the emptiest speculation I've seen in this forum."

Pretty much.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:26:05 AM
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:27:49 AM
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.


I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 03:27:58 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


No offense intended but I think yall are both still way off.  Where is this crap coming from.  Of course Beth come out strong( even stronger the Jug)  Remember she is her Mom and he is her stepdad.  What would you expect?


For the record Mike, I didn't say anything quoted here. I agree with you completely.


Title: Re: Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 03:28:58 AM
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.
as far as i am concered you din't see it becasue it is not there.  meester van der sloot is an oficious bureaucrat LE guy.  the kid seems like maybe too serious with a fertile imagination. he is not bad either as i read him  maybe awkward, dignified, distant, uncomfortable like his dad around strangers.  natalee is described by her dad as th opposite outgoing, gregarious, wants to meet new people,determined, intelligent and probably mature for her age she looks centered and laid back to me.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:29:40 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:29:55 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


No offense intended but I think yall are both still way off.  Where is this crap coming from.  Of course Beth come out strong( even stronger the Jug)  Remember she is her Mom and he is her stepdad.  What would you expect?


Just a few assumptions, is all.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:30:21 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Well Lorenzo supossedly owned a speed boat.. they searched boats

Here the news article (not in english but has pictures of them searching)

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg


Hey Cali, you sweet thang!  ANd jes who is Lorenzo?  Please!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:31:25 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

If you read Dan Rheil's latest (posted a few posts above), and it is to be believed, the whole scenario makes sense.

The unfortunate part is that Natalee may not have been targetted per se, it could have been any other girl, but she just happened to be the opportune one.


Can someone gimme a clue to find Dan's quote?  Please!


Title: Re: Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.
as far as i am concered you din't see it becasue it is not there.  meester van der sloot is an oficious bureaucrat LE guy.  the kid seems like maybe too serious with a fertile imagination. he is not bad either as i read him  maybe awkward, dignified, distant, uncomfortable like his dad around strangers.  natalee is described by her dad as th opposite outgoing, gregarious, wants to meet new people,determined, intelligent and probably mature for her age she looks centered and laid back to me.


I look sweet and innocent and ummm....
no comment! lmao


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 03:31:33 AM
Quote from: "cast"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????
Quote
No, it really did happen on the island.  It was reported in the paper, and gave the man's name, although I can't remember what it was, only that it was dutch.

:::running through the door:::::

His name was Renee... I can't remember the last name but it was Dutch


RENEE VAN HANEGEM, his wife works nights at one of the hotels in Aruba.



Have we eliminated the possibility that the wife of this man was the one who reported seeing 2 men dragging a hysterical woman away at the north end of the beach that late Sunday night...

Or is this just another "Unrelated" incident... hmmmm


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:32:46 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: stlnative on June 24, 2005, 03:32:54 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Well Lorenzo supossedly owned a speed boat.. they searched boats

Here the news article (not in english but has pictures of them searching)

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg


Hey Cali, you sweet thang!  ANd jes who is Lorenzo?  Please!


I have been asking the same thing and no one will answer

"kintento kontesta mi pregunda"


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 03:33:32 AM
I have a question Mike:

Seems like we're getting conflicting reports on when Joran and Natalee actually met. Or when Joran might've met any of the kids on the trip.

If, as is being said most recently, J and N first met earlier on the day of her disappearance, when did the shoving match happen?

Mike, or anybody else who can clear this up?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:34:28 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.


A MB student from the trip went on the record to confirm it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 03:35:42 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.


A MB student from the trip went on the record to confirm it.


When was it supposed to have happened, CaliGirl?

Can't believe you turned down a date tonight to come on here, by the way! Must've not been a very good prospect. :(


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:36:21 AM
Quote from: "stlnative"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Well Lorenzo supossedly owned a speed boat.. they searched boats

Here the news article (not in english but has pictures of them searching)

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg


Hey Cali, you sweet thang!  ANd jes who is Lorenzo?  Please!


I have been asking the same thing and no one will answer

"kintento kontesta mi pregunda"
Mike and slt..

Lorenzo is a boy questioned twice but not arrested (YET) he reported owns a speed boat and has a basement


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:36:50 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
I have a question Mike:

Seems like we're getting conflicting reports on when Joran and Natalee actually met. Or when Joran might've met any of the kids on the trip.

If, as is being said most recently, J and N first met earlier on the day of her disappearance, when did the shoving match happen?

Mike, or anybody else who can clear this up?


As far as I've read Juvenal, Joran and Natalee met at the casino in the HI that day, prior to hooking up at CnC that evening.

The shoving match hasn't been confirmed by any of her friends or classmates as far as i have read.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:39:39 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.


A MB student from the trip went on the record to confirm it.


When was it supposed to have happened, CaliGirl?

Can't believe you turned down a date tonight to come on here, by the way! Must've not been a very good prospect. :(


A scuffle with words exchanged no one went into great details over what.. probably who's hair looked better with gel! lol WHo knows with kids these days...
lol Yeah the date was a "friend" who I am not thinking of kindly.. posting is more important! lol


Title: CD's
Post by: LouLou on June 24, 2005, 03:40:06 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:41:00 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.


A MB student from the trip went on the record to confirm it.


What confirmation did they have to say about it. This puzzles me, all this heresay of that, and perhaps it did happen yet nobody has given any account of it.

If there is a thread cali, can you provide it, and if so, was it from one of the students who, in fact witnessed it?


Title: Re: premeditated
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 03:41:52 AM
Quote from: "dl3fan"
If Joran and Natalee had contact with each other before her arrival in Aruba could that be part of the "premeditated" charges?


No. The 'premeditated' only concerns the actual act of murder.

/edited for spelling


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 03:42:12 AM
Quote from: "stlnative"
What can you tell me about this Lorenzo... so I can do some research on him. All I know is that he suppose to a son to Paulus Van Der Sloot.


He's allegedly 26-27 years old.  IF the vdSloot part of his story is true, which I still doubt highly, he would most likely have been born in Holland, possibly Arnehm, where Paulus lived when he was married to Anita and they had Joran.

(I don't know that Arnehm is Paulus's hometown, but it's a known place to start.)  We've heard that Paul was a school teacher before he got into government service in Aruba 10 years ago and did whatever legal training he is supposed to have, whether he has a law degree or not.  

Paulus's job in Aruba for the past few years has been as one of the department of Liaison between The Netherlands and Aruba--and I believe, others of the Dutch Antilles.  That is KABNAA and he was appointed to a 3-year term ending in Jan 2006, except that he evidently has been let go since all this started.

So, who is Lorenzo's mother?  Could it be the Deborah vRijn in Oranjestad, perhaps a widow, or is that just too easy?

Lorenzo's "father" on Aruba is said to have been the Volkswagen dealer on the island and he committed suicide three years ago.  The VW dealership that is there now is:

R & S Automotive N.V.
Address: Barcadera 4
Phone: (297) 585-3004 / (297) 585-3008
Fax: (297) 585-9115  

Note that it's on Barcadera, not sure exactly where that address is, but one of the very earliest searches for Natalee was in the Barcadera area.  I suppose someone could call them and ask questions about the former (late) owner.  He was said to be well known, obviously, since he was a car dealer who needed to have his company name out in the public.

Lorenzo is said to have two homes on far opposite sides of the island--one a mansion and one brightly painted (may be the same one).  Other vague details are that he has a basement in one of these houses, which is rare on Aruba (if not non-existent, IMO); that he gives "underground" parties, meaning *raves*, which are unruly and unsupervised;  that he is "crazy" himself, or perhaps "touched in the head" since his father's death; that he owns a speedboat; and that he was called in for questioning in Nat's disappearance, just before SG Croes was, but he was not detained.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Getagrip on June 24, 2005, 03:42:31 AM
Quote from: "stlnative"
Please someone tell me about this Lorenzo so that I can do some research on him. Do you have his last name - what infor do you have on him?

Sorrym stlnative, was distracted by other things - meant to answer earlier.

Lorenzo Van Rijn or Van Geijn or Van Gijn

Rumoured to be PVDS's illegitimate son

Father (I would assume the step father) was owner of a Volkswagen dealership, committed suicide a few years ago

Since then, Lorenzo is rumoured to be doing all sorts of crazy stuff, underground parties, sex videos, etc.

I'm trying to recall other details, but if you want additional rumours, do a forum search for Lorenzo to get a complete picture.

I don't think anything has been confirmed though, other than he being brought in for questioning a few days ago.


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:42:35 AM
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.

The moms stated they were music lol I just found it odd but everything is odd!!

Which leads me to my next weirdness outbreak...

::ducking:: I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 24, 2005, 03:43:19 AM
I just found the strangest thing while searching....

There is a stephen lorenzo van Heyningen (same last name as the partial decapitated man, Rene Van Heyningen)

could it be??? :shock:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 03:44:18 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.


A MB student from the trip went on the record to confirm it.


When was it supposed to have happened, CaliGirl?

Can't believe you turned down a date tonight to come on here, by the way! Must've not been a very good prospect. :(


A scuffle with words exchanged no one went into great details over what.. probably who's hair looked better with gel! lol WHo knows with kids these days...
lol Yeah the date was a "friend" who I am not thinking of kindly.. posting is more important! lol


But when was it supposed to have happened?


Title: Re: Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:45:01 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.
as far as i am concered you din't see it becasue it is not there.  meester van der sloot is an oficious bureaucrat LE guy.  the kid seems like maybe too serious with a fertile imagination. he is not bad either as i read him  maybe awkward, dignified, distant, uncomfortable like his dad around strangers.  natalee is described by her dad as th opposite outgoing, gregarious, wants to meet new people,determined, intelligent and probably mature for her age she looks centered and laid back to me.
Well, while shes described sorta like that shes also been described as " alittle shy".  I do not buy any of this abput her approaching him, buying him A DRINK ETC,  UNLESS AS HAS BEEN STATED EARLIER, THEY MET PREVIOUS AND WERE NOT STRANGERS THAT NIGHT!  Sorry bout shoutin' it was axident!


Title: Not shoving
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 03:45:13 AM
It wasn't a *shoving match* - not physical - it was just loud words - a *shouting match.*

At least, that's how it started out three weeks ago as being reported, but it kept growing over the course of the case, with each re-telling.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 03:45:40 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


Someone else noticed that too, I see. They took all their tapes as well (I assume that would could be both audio and video). Both mothers mentioned that clearly.

That points directly to the possible teenage XXX rated picture/video angle.

On a related note, it was stated that one of the Dutch "experts" that was sent in was a specialist in so-called "children's crimes" (which would mean anyone under 18). They would know the ins and outs of the blog/Tickle/Myspace cyberworld, and know about the XXX angle as well.

I told someone yesterday that the key to understanding this crime is the Internet.

Natalee has fallen into some unspeakable evil that is connected with this scummy low-life cyberworld, or has been taken by drug thugs, or by the Mafia-style underworld.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:46:31 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.


A MB student from the trip went on the record to confirm it.


What confirmation did they have to say about it. This puzzles me, all this heresay of that, and perhaps it did happen yet nobody has given any account of it.

If there is a thread cali, can you provide it, and if so, was it from one of the students who, in fact witnessed it?

Here's one i found really quick http://www.postherald.com/me061005.shtml


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:47:50 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.

The moms stated they were music lol I just found it odd but everything is odd!!

Which leads me to my next weirdness outbreak...

::ducking:: I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


In all common sense, I would think that once a person has been missing a certain length of time, the insurance would cover as if the missing person was deceased. But hell, I am just speculating. Who know's what the hell these insurance companys cover anymore, or should i say DON'T COVER?
Edit to add...
I think there has to be a body to for any insurance claim
Not sure if this type of insurance is ligit cali


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: lexie on June 24, 2005, 03:48:37 AM
[

good post  aunt twitty said today natalee has been in the family since 7 years.  holloway has a 7 year old by his new wife.  when did they jug/beth divorce?  did natalee stay with mom or dad?  can you imagine laid back patient and considerate holloway married to beth?[/quote]


Do not know how to link, but a good article on early years and both Holloways & Twittys...

www.clintonnews.com
Thursday, June 16, 2005 edition


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:49:10 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.

The moms stated they were music lol I just found it odd but everything is odd!!

Which leads me to my next weirdness outbreak...

::ducking:: I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


In all common sense, I would think that once a person has been missing a certain length of time, the insurance would cover as if the missing person was deceased. But hell, I am just speculating. Who know's what the hell these insurance companys cover anymore, or should i say DON'T COVER?


Yeah but they pay ransoms.. up to 1 million


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 03:49:23 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


I know a lot about it, more than I can write tonight (er, this morning) - but I will expound about it later.  It's part of what I'm writing in sections, but I'm not there yet.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:50:01 AM
Cali, surely you dont think Nat just met Urine that night and SHE was persuing him? :shock:  SHe might have been friendly w'him but only cause she knew him from before!


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:50:37 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


I know a lot about it, more than I can write tonight (er, this morning) - but I will expound about it later.  It's part of what I'm writing in sections, but I'm not there yet.


Thank you Ida!!

I am really curious about this since I learned they pay ransoms.


Title: Re: Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:51:33 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.
as far as i am concered you din't see it becasue it is not there.  meester van der sloot is an oficious bureaucrat LE guy.  the kid seems like maybe too serious with a fertile imagination. he is not bad either as i read him  maybe awkward, dignified, distant, uncomfortable like his dad around strangers.  natalee is described by her dad as th opposite outgoing, gregarious, wants to meet new people,determined, intelligent and probably mature for her age she looks centered and laid back to me.


I look sweet and innocent and ummm....
no comment! lmao
Well, Cali,  I see your point! :wink:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:51:40 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Cali, surely you dont think Nat just met Urine that night and SHE was persuing him? :shock:  SHe might have been friendly w'him but only cause she knew him from before!


I believe she met him before that night.


Title: Re: Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:52:26 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.
as far as i am concered you din't see it becasue it is not there.  meester van der sloot is an oficious bureaucrat LE guy.  the kid seems like maybe too serious with a fertile imagination. he is not bad either as i read him  maybe awkward, dignified, distant, uncomfortable like his dad around strangers.  natalee is described by her dad as th opposite outgoing, gregarious, wants to meet new people,determined, intelligent and probably mature for her age she looks centered and laid back to me.


I look sweet and innocent and ummm....
no comment! lmao
Well, Cali,  I see your point! :wink:


ROFLMAO I am living proof that looks are deceiving  :wink:


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:53:37 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.

The moms stated they were music lol I just found it odd but everything is odd!!

Which leads me to my next weirdness outbreak...

::ducking:: I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


In all common sense, I would think that once a person has been missing a certain length of time, the insurance would cover as if the missing person was deceased. But hell, I am just speculating. Who know's what the hell these insurance companys cover anymore, or should i say DON'T COVER?


Yeah but they pay ransoms.. up to 1 million


so what is your point?
are you getting at a ransom to the parents or a ransom to the kidnapper? lol, where are you going with that cali?


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 03:56:36 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.

The moms stated they were music lol I just found it odd but everything is odd!!

Which leads me to my next weirdness outbreak...

::ducking:: I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


In all common sense, I would think that once a person has been missing a certain length of time, the insurance would cover as if the missing person was deceased. But hell, I am just speculating. Who know's what the hell these insurance companys cover anymore, or should i say DON'T COVER?


Yeah but they pay ransoms.. up to 1 million


so what is your point?
are you getting at a ransom to the parents or a ransom to the kidnapper? lol, where are you going with that cali?


Ranson to kidnapper! lol Beth has stated tonite she knows her daughter was kidnapped.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 03:57:11 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  :lol:

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.
Nope! That would be confirmed!  I saw Nat hs friend who broke it up.  He was interviewed on local tv.  He stated that that was when he got a good look at Urine!  There was shoving match!  A FACT!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 03:59:20 AM
Yes true Cali,

But I have to say, and ask you this, would you ever take out insurance on your child, teenager ...RANSOM INSURANCE???

It just doesn't make sense.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 04:01:28 AM
I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier![/quote][/quote]

With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.[/quote]Nope! That would be confirmed!  I saw Nat hs friend who broke it up.  He was interviewed on local tv.  He stated that that was when he got a good look at Urine!  There was shoving match!  A FACT![/quote]

well, please do find us a link or subjective testimony to that fact. I haven't read any confirmation on that at all.
Can you provide details of this match? What happened, why it started, etc.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 04:01:46 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Yes true Cali,

But I have to say, and ask you this, would you ever take out insurance on your child, teenager ...RANSOM INSURANCE???

It just doesn't make sense.


Actually, from what I read it's included. I tried to do some rearch on it because I was sent some additional info when I posted about it.. a lot of big companies offer it. Jug works for a subsidery of a huge company.

It was an article about how "low risk people" overseas are being kidnapped for ransoms and taken to Latin America...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:02:09 AM
Quote from: "Juvenal"
I have a question Mike:

Seems like we're getting conflicting reports on when Joran and Natalee actually met. Or when Joran might've met any of the kids on the trip.

If, as is being said most recently, J and N first met earlier on the day of her disappearance, when did the shoving match happen?

Mike, or anybody else who can clear this up?


THER'VE BEEN SEVERAL REPORTS OF HIM BEING AROUND FOR ONE OR TWO DAYS PRIOR AND at the holiday inn.  (SORRY Caps are backards, my bad).  Thers only been one mention of her meeting him 30-40 mins(or whatever) before she disappeared, that being the recent classmate interview.  I just think she's mistaken.  To many say otherwise.  The fight ?  I cant say fer sure.  Dont member!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Juvenal on June 24, 2005, 04:03:31 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Juvenal"
I have a question Mike:

Seems like we're getting conflicting reports on when Joran and Natalee actually met. Or when Joran might've met any of the kids on the trip.

If, as is being said most recently, J and N first met earlier on the day of her disappearance, when did the shoving match happen?

Mike, or anybody else who can clear this up?


THER'VE BEEN SEVERAL REPORTS OF HIM BEING AROUND FOR ONE OR TWO DAYS PRIOR AND at the holiday inn.  (SORRY Caps are backards, my bad).  Thers only been one mention of her meeting him 30-40 mins(or whatever) before she disappeared, that being the recent classmate interview.  I just think she's mistaken.  To many say otherwise.  The fight ?  I cant say fer sure.  Dont member!


Thanks Mike.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 04:03:42 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Yes true Cali,

But I have to say, and ask you this, would you ever take out insurance on your child, teenager ...RANSOM INSURANCE???

It just doesn't make sense.


But me personally I would never take insurance out on my child because not one penny could replace her nor pay for one damn thing to unbreak my heart.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 04:04:02 AM
The shoving match was 1 or 2 nights before. There is no clear cause given for it but I personally don't think it had anything to do with Natalee.

It doesn't sound AT ALL like Natalee and Joran were an inseparable "item" during those 4 days. It is really strange though, the discrepancy between Dash and Frances Bird over the time when she first met Joran. (Frances Bird is the gal who said it was the last night). FB was a ROOMMATE of Natalee's and is in just about every one of her pictures, usually standing right by her! Yet she doesn't think they were "officially" introduced until the little spiel about Daddy's money etc.

Another in a LONG list of things that makes no sense in this deal.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 04:05:19 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Yes true Cali,

But I have to say, and ask you this, would you ever take out insurance on your child, teenager ...RANSOM INSURANCE???

It just doesn't make sense.


Actually, from what I read it's included. I tried to do some rearch on it because I was sent some additional info when I posted about it.. a lot of big companies offer it. Jug works for a subsidery of a huge company.

It was an article about how "low risk people" overseas are being kidnapped for ransoms and taken to Latin America...


Ok, perhaps, it isn't included in my insurance within a company, but hey! you have a good point there, i'm not going to dispute it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


pictures (stills), .wav files (voices sound recordings), documents...you can record a ton of stuff on 700 MB of space.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 04:06:15 AM
Quote from: "sb"
The shoving match was 1 or 2 nights before. There is no clear cause given for it but I personally don't think it had anything to do with Natalee.

It doesn't sound AT ALL like Natalee and Joran were an inseparable "item" during those 4 days. It is really strange though, the discrepancy between Dash and Frances Bird over the time when she first met Joran. (Frances Bird is the gal who said it was the last night). FB was a ROOMMATE of Natalee's and is in just about every one of her pictures, usually standing right by her! Yet she doesn't think they were "officially" introduced until the little spiel about Daddy's money etc.

Another in a LONG list of things that makes no sense in this deal.


Agreed. Can not have a straight story from either side and only one sides allowed to speak and we still get many versions of things.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:06:50 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!
[/quote]

With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.[/quote]Nope! That would be confirmed!  I saw Nat hs friend who broke it up.  He was interviewed on local tv.  He stated that that was when he got a good look at Urine!  There was shoving match!  A FACT![/quote]

well, please do find us a link or subjective testimony to that fact. I haven't read any confirmation on that at all.
Can you provide details of this match? What happened, why it started, etc.[/quote]As I said ust now, I dont have a link. Hey I ain't stupid, I watch TV! :shock: It was on TV!  No LiNK!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 04:07:38 AM
I wonder if Valentijn will be the next questioned.. or maybe Anita? But Valentijn was home...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 04:08:24 AM
CaliGirl is that avatar a picture of you? If so you look very sweet and innocent! But then of course looks are deceiving huh!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 04:08:26 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.[/quote]Nope! That would be confirmed!  I saw Nat hs friend who broke it up.  He was interviewed on local tv.  He stated that that was when he got a good look at Urine!  There was shoving match!  A FACT![/quote]

well, please do find us a link or subjective testimony to that fact. I haven't read any confirmation on that at all.
Can you provide details of this match? What happened, why it started, etc.[/quote]As I said ust now, I dont have a link. Hey I ain't stupid, I watch TV! :shock: It was on TV!  No LiNK![/quote]

I sent a link. lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:09:04 AM
oLOve that Greta, "URINE! LOL!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 04:10:38 AM
The Birmingham News quotes the guy who got into it with Joran, I believe his name is Kevin Reynolds or something like that.

He did NOT say anything about it being connected to Natalee. I have a feeling the MB guys might not have liked Joran's attitude.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 04:10:58 AM
Suspect was in pushing match
Man had scuffle with some of Holloway's friends
By DANIEL JACKSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

"There was almost a fight between my friend and him," said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. "I had to break them up. That's when I got a good look at them."


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 04:11:11 AM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.[/quote]Nope! That would be confirmed!  I saw Nat hs friend who broke it up.  He was interviewed on local tv.  He stated that that was when he got a good look at Urine!  There was shoving match!  A FACT![/quote]

well, please do find us a link or subjective testimony to that fact. I haven't read any confirmation on that at all.
Can you provide details of this match? What happened, why it started, etc.[/quote]As I said ust now, I dont have a link. Hey I ain't stupid, I watch TV! :shock: It was on TV!  No LiNK![/quote]

I rest my case, this is not something that has even been brought up to the media to any length(undisputed), littleon the parents of all and anyone involved...It is heresay!!! Period. It just seems to me to be a moot point.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 04:13:51 AM
Kevin, Bryan... close enough. The shoving match DID happen.

The way the article is written makes it sound like it was in conjunction with Joran talking to Natalee, but I don't think that is so. That is just a journalistic filler.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: inthepacific on June 24, 2005, 04:14:20 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.
Nope! That would be confirmed!  I saw Nat hs friend who broke it up.  He was interviewed on local tv.  He stated that that was when he got a good look at Urine!  There was shoving match!  A FACT![/quote]

well, please do find us a link or subjective testimony to that fact. I haven't read any confirmation on that at all.
Can you provide details of this match? What happened, why it started, etc.[/quote]As I said ust now, I dont have a link. Hey I ain't stupid, I watch TV! :shock: It was on TV!  No LiNK![/quote]

I sent a link. lol[/quote]

Oh man, these links, quotes are all screwed up, i'm off now. Night all.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 04:16:38 AM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "stlnative"
What can you tell me about this Lorenzo... so I can do some research on him. All I know is that he suppose to a son to Paulus Van Der Sloot.


He's allegedly 26-27 years old.  IF the vdSloot part of his story is true, which I still doubt highly, he would most likely have been born in Holland, possibly Arnehm, where Paulus lived when he was married to Anita and they had Joran.

(I don't know that Arnehm is Paulus's hometown, but it's a known place to start.)  We've heard that Paul was a school teacher before he got into government service in Aruba 10 years ago and did whatever legal training he is supposed to have, whether he has a law degree or not.  

Paulus's job in Aruba for the past few years has been as one of the department of Liaison between The Netherlands and Aruba--and I believe, others of the Dutch Antilles.  That is KABNAA and he was appointed to a 3-year term ending in Jan 2006, except that he evidently has been let go since all this started.

So, who is Lorenzo's mother?  Could it be the Deborah vRijn in Oranjestad, perhaps a widow, or is that just too easy?

Lorenzo's "father" on Aruba is said to have been the Volkswagen dealer on the island and he committed suicide three years ago.  The VW dealership that is there now is:

R & S Automotive N.V.
Address: Barcadera 4
Phone: (297) 585-3004 / (297) 585-3008
Fax: (297) 585-9115  

Note that it's on Barcadera, not sure exactly where that address is, but one of the very earliest searches for Natalee was in the Barcadera area.  I suppose someone could call them and ask questions about the former (late) owner.  He was said to be well known, obviously, since he was a car dealer who needed to have his company name out in the public.

Lorenzo is said to have two homes on far opposite sides of the island--one a mansion and one brightly painted (may be the same one).  Other vague details are that he has a basement in one of these houses, which is rare on Aruba (if not non-existent, IMO); that he gives "underground" parties, meaning *raves*, which are unruly and unsupervised;  that he is "crazy" himself, or perhaps "touched in the head" since his father's death; that he owns a speedboat; and that he was called in for questioning in Nat's disappearance, just before SG Croes was, but he was not detained.


Itawamba Agreat summary.  Keepin' it for myself, too!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:16:48 AM
Quote from: "sb"
The shoving match was 1 or 2 nights before. There is no clear cause given for it but I personally don't think it had anything to do with Natalee.

It doesn't sound AT ALL like Natalee and Joran were an inseparable "item" during those 4 days. It is really strange though, the discrepancy between Dash and Frances Bird over the time when she first met Joran. (Frances Bird is the gal who said it was the last night). FB was a ROOMMATE of Natalee's and is in just about every one of her pictures, usually standing right by her! Yet she doesn't think they were "officially" introduced until the little spiel about Daddy's money etc.

Another in a LONG list of things that makes no sense in this deal.


Well pichure this:  They met before!  He comes in that night(after sneakin out ) No remem, they now know each other, so  when she sees him she goes over and says something like "Well, hi big spender!  You seem to be the BMOC around here (nic nic Inside joke flirt) how bout I buy you a rink? "  Get it?  She flirts, a scene repeated through the ages, but her friend who had not seen them together before couldn't tell she was playin and thought the flirt acted meeting was their first meetim!.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 04:19:16 AM
Nite all! I Am sweepy!

I just wanted to point out  :wink:

That all the information I reported from my Kalpoe source was confimed by their mom a bit tonite. Now I know I have a source  :lol:

((((Hugs))))


See all ya monkey's tomorrow! Or morning.. since it's morning lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:20:57 AM
Quote from: "sb"
The Birmingham News quotes the guy who got into it with Joran, I believe his name is Kevin Reynolds or something like that.

He did NOT say anything about it being connected to Natalee. I have a feeling the MB guys might not have liked Joran's attitude.


Agreed!  Agreed!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:23:24 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!


With all do respect, that shoving match hasn't been confirmed by anyone...not natalees freinds, nor her parents. That is speculation as far as I am concerned. I haven't read anything solid on that line as of yet. All heresay, as far as I have read.
Nope! That would be confirmed!  I saw Nat hs friend who broke it up.  He was interviewed on local tv.  He stated that that was when he got a good look at Urine!  There was shoving match!  A FACT![/quote]

well, please do find us a link or subjective testimony to that fact. I haven't read any confirmation on that at all.
Can you provide details of this match? What happened, why it started, etc.[/quote]As I said ust now, I dont have a link. Hey I ain't stupid, I watch TV! :shock: It was on TV!  No LiNK![/quote]

I rest my case, this is not something that has even been brought up to the media to any length(undisputed), littleon the parents of all and anyone involved...It is heresay!!! Period. It just seems to me to be a moot point.[/quote] Surely you dont mean the shovin.  As the prev posts veryify, its a fact!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 04:25:44 AM
Right TTown Mike, but the point is that FB said this was the first meeting. Remmeber this is Natalee's ROOMMATE and possibly closest friend on the trip. Check out how she is in ALL the pictures.

What this tells ME is that you did not ever have the following scenario:

Nat comes in and says to roommates: Hey did you guys meet that Joran guy, he's OK ya know (wink here). Roommates respond: Yeah Natalee he's a neat guy (or something to that effect)... which leads to discussion from Female Cabinet about relative merits of Sir Joran yada yada.  :roll:

As is standard amongst close female friends. Which would have been remembered by the roommate.

In other words, her thought was that the Natalee radar screen had not really picked up the Joran blip until the very last night.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:30:48 AM
Quote from: "sb"
Right TTown Mike, but the point is that FB said this was the first meeting. Remmeber this is Natalee's ROOMMATE and possibly closest friend on the trip. Check out how she is in ALL the pictures.

What this tells ME is that you did not ever have the following scenario:

Nat comes in and says to roommates: Hey did you guys meet that Joran guy, he's OK ya know (wink here). Roommates respond: Yeah Natalee he's a neat guy (or something to that effect)... which leads to discussion from Female Cabinet about relative merits of Sir Joran yada yada.

As is standard amongst close female friends. Which would have been remembered by the roommate.

In other words, her thought was that the Natalee radar screen had not really picked up the Joran blip until the very last night.


If I understand you I think I agree what you say is like what I said.  The roomate just may not have been aware they had already met.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 04:33:16 AM
OPK gotta crash now !  Night all!


Title: More shoving match reports
Post by: LouLou on June 24, 2005, 04:35:16 AM
From the Travel Advisor board (before this one got started)

The Allegro Resort Hotel is closed for renovation but the casino is still open. And it has been reported that Natalee and some other teens in her group have been in both casinos, as has Joran with her. If memory serves me well, it was in one of those casinos that Natalee met Joran and it was in one of those casinos that a boy in Natalee's group got into a shoving match with Joran and another boy in Natalee's group stepped in to break it up.

I believe there were 2 shoving matches.  One at a casino and one at a bar.  After the these events, I also believe that the Joran\Nat romance went underground.  This may be why she wanted to walk back to the HI by herself..to quietly come in the back way and incospiciously meld back into the crowd.


Title: Test time 1:40
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 04:39:58 AM
TEST


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 04:41:31 AM
I'm done too. Good night everyone.

Keep Natalee and her family in our prayers.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sb on June 24, 2005, 04:47:41 AM
(quick U-turn)

LouLou, WHERE are you getting all that info from? I have not heard ANY discussions like that in print. All of that basically implies that those closest to Natalee have been lying to everyone. There is only 1 shoving match reported and its location is lost in journalistic fog. And the implications of "their romance went underground" are pretty severe.

Do you have links to articles that bear out what you are saying?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Shell on June 24, 2005, 04:53:30 AM
The Birmingham Post-Herald has reported that the recently arrested Joran Van der Sloot was in a pushing match with some of Natalee Holloway's friends earlier on during the night of her disappearance.

One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.

Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

quoted from Riehl


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Shell on June 24, 2005, 05:03:04 AM
to be more specific, I found that at http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/natalee_hollowa_7.html


Title: ransom insurance
Post by: Brenda on June 24, 2005, 05:03:12 AM
now this is a scenario i just cannot imagine......but apparently some of you are entertaining this one.


Beth:  Operator, I would like to be connected to Farmer's Insurance Company

Operator:  I will be happy to connect you

Bill:  Farmer's Insurance

Beth:  Hi BIll....my daughter hooty, I mean Natalee is going on a senior trip.  Can we get some RANSOM insurance in a hurry?  It could be really handy "just in case"

Bill: Sure Beth....how many millions do ya want?


Get a grip folks.  Ransom insurance, like key man insurance - is sold to cover CEO's, and key persons at corporations - not for momma's little girl's high school trips.   :roll:


Title: Time zones
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 05:07:54 AM
Anyone from Aruba...I think you're on the same time as USA ET...which is on daylight time.  I believe that would be UTC -4:00 + 1 hour for the daylight time.

Would you please PM me and let me know if you also have daylight time?

It will help clarify some discrepancies.

Thanks.


Title: Re: ransom insurance
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 05:13:55 AM
Quote from: "Brenda"
now this is a scenario i just cannot imagine......but apparently some of you are entertaining this one.


Beth:  Operator, I would like to be connected to Farmer's Insurance Company

Operator:  I will be happy to connect you

Bill:  Farmer's Insurance

Beth:  Hi BIll....my daughter hooty, I mean Natalee is going on a senior trip.  Can we get some RANSOM insurance in a hurry?  It could be really handy "just in case"

Bill: Sure Beth....how many millions do ya want?


Get a grip folks.  Ransom insurance, like key man insurance - is sold to cover CEO's, and key persons at corporations - not for momma's little girl's high school trips.   :roll:


OK Brenda I'll bite...why couldn't someone get a specific rider/scripted clause to add such.  I'd agree it's not key man insurance, but it must exist for personal lines.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 05:33:41 AM
cost would be one reason Whitney. it's been awhile, but my husband had this kind of thing - it wasn't cheap.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 05:37:28 AM
(http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/carlosncharliesimsex.JPG)

from http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html#000814

an excellent article and oh yes, Look at those (not scared IMO)Monkeys


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 05:44:47 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
cost would be one reason Whitney. it's been awhile, but my husband had this kind of thing - it wasn't cheap.


I hear you; the article that I think it was CaliGirl posted said $4000/1 million; didn't give terms, and didn't say if it had to be (which it probably does) necessarily be a part of a package.  And, unless this was something that Jug had because of his position at the company where he worked (he's a GM there, whatever), he would be the first person the FBI would ask to take a polygraph and the happiest camper in the world would be Elio, the ex-poliz detective who's been going on the news encouraging the authorities to probe the young, NH's stateside background.

Thanks for you response...LOL...it's late and I was reading the last two articles at the Dark Side and thought I'd post this.  Good nite!


Title: Rene van Heyningen/columbian necktie
Post by: maritzka on June 24, 2005, 05:45:46 AM
could someone tell me what this website is about?  I wonder if this is the Rene van Heyningen that they found with his throat slit. There is a photograph.   
                http://www.groenetechnieken.nl/pages_agt/proficiat2003.html


Title: Re: Rene van Heyningen/columbian necktie
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 05:55:24 AM
Quote from: "maritzka"
could someone tell me what this website is about?  I wonder if this is the Rene van Heyningen that they found with his throat slit. There is a photograph.   
                http://www.groenetechnieken.nl/pages_agt/proficiat2003.html


Well, you've probably already done this, but if you do a search, and type in
 Rene AND van AND Heyningen and click the button for all posts on the left...well, I surprised myself..

It's too late to do more...but I was amazed!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 05:55:53 AM
according to the crude translator at dictionary.com

Kadertraining Voorman means framework training voorman - so it's a photo of people who took some sort of training course. i'm sure some of our native dutch speakers can do a better job (when everyone surfaces) looks as though they were all burning the midnight (and beyond) oil.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Faith on June 24, 2005, 06:01:15 AM
Is this really the person who was found murdered?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 06:01:56 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
according to the crude translator at dictionary.com

Kadertraining Voorman means framework training voorman - so it's a photo of people who took some sort of training course. i'm sure some of our native dutch speakers can do a better job (when everyone surfaces) looks as though they were all burning the midnight (and beyond) oil.


mojo...have you done a search of the posts on the SM site?  Apparently the throat slit guy...BTW, I have a different name for the person...it was from the Hasibokos.com site...last Sunday....

SUNDAY: Missing man has been identified as Sergio Gomez. This case and the dead, partially decapitaed, body found at Sabana are not believed to be related to the Natalee Holloway case. ....
...The local authorities aided by the FBI and some Dutch experts have not been able to crack this case yet. As if this case (ref Natalee Holloway) wasn’t enough, Hasibokos.com has received information that the police have found a (partially) decapitated body of an Aruban male Saturday morning in the neighborhood called Sabana (see map). . According to preliminary (unconfirmed) reports the man was murdered in his house and then later dumped in a cemetery close by.  The scene at the house and the cemetery have been described as gruesome and bloody.http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Sobelle on June 24, 2005, 06:25:09 AM
First time poster but I've been lurking as a guest for a while so please be kind. This may not amount to a hill of beans but I have been searching on the guy named Lorenzo Van Rijn since you guys have been trying to find information on him.  I haven't been able to find anything with using the first name Lorenzo yet but I have found something I thought was kind of interesting concerning a company with the name of Van Rijn in Aruba.  It appears that there are 3 business that may be affiliated with one another.

1st business Van Rijn IM- EN Export N.V. looks to be an import/export business from the listing. What I really thought was kind of odd as I kept on looking was that I also found 2 other companies which were and automotive company and a diesel company listed all at the same location.  All 3 of these companies are located at the same address in Bacadera in Aruba.  I'm not sure but I think this may be a shipping/cargo area.

2nd business known as R & S Diesel Service has the exact same phone number as the Van Rijn Im- En Export N.V. business.

3rd business known as R & S Automotive and Industrial Parts N.V. sell Volkswagon cars which you guys have mentioned that Lorenzo was connected to a Volkswagon dealership on the board before.  This business has a different phone number but the exact same fax number as R & S Diesel Service.

This may have absolutely nothing to do with anything and may all be normal occurrences for businesses in Aruba but it kind of bothered me since the last name (Van Rijn) is the name on an import/export business.  My apologies to the companies I've written about if I'm out in left field with all of this.  My daughter and I came up with this information in hopes that it might be helpful in finding Natalee.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 24, 2005, 06:36:53 AM
The arubans said that Lorenzo's dad had a VW business so that would be the right one.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Sobelle on June 24, 2005, 07:05:03 AM
It was just weird to me how all 3 of those companies tied in with one another.


Title: RBN#21
Post by: wbvious on June 24, 2005, 07:08:00 AM
Nice work Sobelle...

key words here might be import/export business...

import/export businesses are sometimes just that, but sometimes a lot more is involved ....

the below link was posted a long time ago on the theory & speculation page but it may be of value to all the newcomers and especially with its context here...

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

"A magnificent washing-machine is sold here, its trademark is Aruba. The machine is an Aruban-Colombian product, its model called Cartel. The brand is well-known for its good performance in the United States and Europe. It is recommended by former ministers, members of Parliament, owners of casinos, supermarkets, cosmetics manufacturers and importers of cars and batteries. The washing-machine fits everybody who has become inexplicably rich from one day to another."
                        -Elio Nicolaas, former minister & police officer


Title: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: maritzka on June 24, 2005, 07:11:04 AM
I am a behavioural profiler who has and is tracing five missing persons, and in the past with language codes found the keys in television interviews of persons. These relayed to authorities may have, and were found to be accurate in the persons having these set patterns in conflict to the words stated.

In the case of Joran Van Der Sloot and what has been written. The following is revealed.

Joran Van Der Sloot at an age before 17, made a tape of a 14 year old girl being gang raped on the island with other members of this 'club on the island - that island was Aruba. The circulation is unknown, and not known if free circulation via his internet site, or the site of the internet cafe. Investigative agencies have a copy of those and that edition one would suppose, and the name of the victim.

Joran Van Der Sloot is credited with having anger management therapy. He is quoted by mothers as being a bully. He shows little respect for those lesser than him in size, parental wealth/status and more academic progress. He is not an 'arts' person, but a game player. His adrenalin high is on winning, and competative sports. He has to win, and having the parentage he has he is set to win at any cost. His money for gambling in casino's therefore is from 'where'?

His 'friends' on weblogs say he had sold the film of the gang rape, not given it. This if true is a crime, and one that if the parents knew is a crime he can be charged with as the hardcopy is on the drive of his computer, but more likely the internet cafe computer as parents can 'look down' at email messages on their computer as can police. Erased messages also can be taken by internet security consultants and also photographs.

Joran Van Der Sloot, his age is nearer to 18 as he says he is a LEO. So he will be 18 soon.Most of his male friends seem older than him, and not a racial bias. He has older friends with the same assets and lifestyle. His webpage shows many spelling errors as in ARNHEM, and wonder of his lucidity in making this page. Common words in neurological function of language can be affected by Wernicke-Korsakoffe confabulation, that is half truth/half fiction. Something that is prevalent in most deviants and sadists found who have personality disorders. It is also a condition in severe alcohol ingestion over time, and of course stroke, brain injury persons in the non alcoholic kind.

Joran Van Der Sloot's home page is his identity. The pages of the photos selected as his own cognitive state show how he wants to be seen. The devils horns and bar behind are scenes above his own age of 17 and status those he wishes to impress. These are girls, and he has to impress those older than him, not younger. Therefore in behavioural traits he is being narcissistic, egotistical, AOD and other drugs dependant in some form, and has to be central to all images of him as the 'sensation seeker' in his own mind. I wonder then of the phenomena of 'folie a deux' as in more than one as Master and apprentice, and if one is ellevated past this?

In the homepages in Holland it is said they think he is being framed. Rubbish, serial killers who have been sent the image of Joran with the neckstrap round the puny boys neck will comment if allowed on the mind of the person doing this. But without that reply I am saying that the photograph shows in body language his full frame as covering the photo and his shirt chosen for its association and his neural firing of AOD pupil reaction. The boy in this is acutely victimised shown by the eyes screwed up, palour and side view as sadism is shown, not playful sex bondage. He exhibits strangulation signs. Of all else, Joran shows no gay attributes, this shown is a victim, not a play act. The facial expression and loss of shirt expose the punyness and lack of identity in contrast to Joran's.

This person will and can be a witness, and I would speculate is from a none skilled, low socio economic family where he takes his bullying tendancies and anger pool from.

I would say abandonment rage is a symptom he displays and he has a rage in the home that is known as outbursts. He engages with his dad, and tests him to the limits. His mother is the least aggressive and passive of the whole lot. She is the calmer of the unit. Joran's own statements as to Natalee have been dissociative. He has sought to distance as has his father from the outside media. Natalee's parents on speaking to the father in the early days may as reported have found him to be condescending, arrogant - as stated and above the law. He is however a trainee judge on the island. The judge in the case is an impartial highly qualified judge who is from another island. He is above Joran's father and most people on the island. He will use behavioral assessments, medical records, and all past behaviour to form an opinion on what Joran and the family have as issues on deviant behaviour already exhibited.

Locals are invaluable in message boards as both devils advocate and as insights into the island and of the person in both supporting and non supporting roles to a behavioural profiler.

The issue of the lighthouse as distancing, there is one other near the International School at the extreme south of the Island.

I do not think this was an impromtu event, due to the fight with the lads of Natalees school and the planning element of cognitive minds in three predators shown to be so by locals on the island and his mode of humiliating girls in groups. He is most likely to have taken her in equal matches of power between the two brothers using the safety key of his fathers position. This is a tool for his authority and credibility.

I have to assume to implicate the guards at her hotel he had to have passed in the car and seen this walkie talkie at some time, or that evening to be able to finger these as suspects to allow his release and those of the other two. Hence he, or the two brothers passed that hotel around that time. I would therefore say for the plan to work, if she is dead, she will have been there in some construction area site to make this stick.

In later retractions and distancing she is now said to be in a lighthouse, which one? Why this lead to the extreme North, she is then said to be on a beach, all of which is past her hotel. She is said to be left on that or a beach with Joran. No it does not cognitively fit. They were all together for some period of time, what time we do not know. It is therefore imperative that the findings are in secret from media in order for the search of what looks like her remains to happen, or cloths/DNA. If she is alive, the reward will allow that person to post on messages that will lead to her finding, for she is still on the land on the island. Not in my view off the island, in the sea, and would look inland as behavioural environmental psychology at the familiarity of the suspects and easy access in a car. My professional insights follow this process.

Posted by: Dutchlady | June 21, 2005 05:35 AM


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 07:28:23 AM
many of the statements upon which Dutch lady bases her profile have not been verified...btw, Arnhem is the correct spelling. the town he lists as his home town is clearly shown in the background of one of his family photos (the one with his little brother, mother and valentijn)

we also know that his mother studied there.


Title: RBN#21
Post by: wbvious on June 24, 2005, 07:32:12 AM
"Dutchlady" continues to impress!...


has there been any searches of the Allegro Hotel site...specifically areas down low or covered over? basements ? beneath a slag pile? waste holes?

obviously there would have been at least a cursory search following the initial rest of Mickey John and the other guy...but anything more thorough since?


Title: Re: RBN#21
Post by: Sobelle on June 24, 2005, 07:33:20 AM
Quote from: "wbvious"
Nice work Sobelle...

key words here might be import/export business...

import/export businesses are sometimes just that, but sometimes a lot more is involved ....

the below link was posted a long time ago on the theory & speculation page but it may be of value to all the newcomers and especially with its context here...

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

"A magnificent washing-machine is sold here, its trademark is Aruba. The machine is an Aruban-Colombian product, its model called Cartel. The brand is well-known for its good performance in the United States and Europe. It is recommended by former ministers, members of Parliament, owners of casinos, supermarkets, cosmetics manufacturers and importers of cars and batteries. The washing-machine fits everybody who has become inexplicably rich from one day to another."
                        -Elio Nicolaas, former minister & police officer




Thanks for the interesting link.  Yep, it's kind of scary what is put in those large containers when they are shipped.  That's why I wondered about the import/export company when I saw it listed with the Rijn name.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: air23ac on June 24, 2005, 07:36:19 AM
call me crazy but don't you think this would be what should have gone through jorans mind?

something bad happens to natalee..........why not just call the cops,ambulance,etc right away.......say we were partying, we just met,etc. at least now you look like someone who did the right thing and maybe his fathers influence helps out there.

but covering up and lying and having many people involved, suggests to me that what he and others did was more than the case of an accident or something that could be excused as an accident.

with this tangled web it seems that what they did must have been so bad and evil that they felt hiding was the only option.....this wasn't a case of experimental drugs/alcohol and stupid teens........it seems more like a case of rape,torture,kidnapping......

all i know is that if i was out partying and i was with some girl on the beach, we were drinking, etc and we went swimming or something and she wound up drowning, i would be calling cops and rescue in 5 minutes..........but if i had raped and drugged her and then she died, i might think i have no escape but a cover up.


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: georgiablues on June 24, 2005, 07:36:44 AM
Quote from: "maritzka"
I am a behavioural profiler .....  

Posted by: Dutchlady | June 21, 2005 05:35 AM



Thanks for that, maritzka.  I've not seen this before.  Quite interesting!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LemonDrop on June 24, 2005, 07:39:15 AM
maritzka, VERY interesting insights and I appreciate you taking the time to share all that with us!  I've always had an interest in behavioral science so this case intriques me.  Your analysis is great!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 07:43:59 AM
Quote from: "air23ac"
call me crazy but don't you think this would be what should have gone through jorans mind?

something bad happens to natalee..........why not just call the cops,ambulance,etc right away.......say we were partying, we just met,etc. at least now you look like someone who did the right thing and maybe his fathers influence helps out there.

but covering up and lying and having many people involved, suggests to me that what he and others did was more than the case of an accident or something that could be excused as an accident.

with this tangled web it seems that what they did must have been so bad and evil that they felt hiding was the only option.....this wasn't a case of experimental drugs/alcohol and stupid teens........it seems more like a case of rape,torture,kidnapping......

all i know is that if i was out partying and i was with some girl on the beach, we were drinking, etc and we went swimming or something and she wound up drowning, i would be calling cops and rescue in 5
minutes..........but if i had raped and drugged her and then she died, i might think i have no escape but a cover up.


exactly air - but to what degree and who exactly is involved. i still don't buy the kalpoes - we just gave them a lift. friendship is one thing, but that's absurd.


Title: morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 07:48:36 AM
Morning everyone. Just checking in this morning to see if there were any new developments since last night? Does anyone know if they will be bringing JVDS from prison to interrogate more while his father is also being interrogating? Just wondering. Or if the brothers will be, and/or all of them? Since not much can be released I think it would be somewhat telling if they interrogate them together(not same room but same time), or just the father and son.
Thanks in advance for any updates.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 07:54:30 AM
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 07:58:58 AM
Morning all, just thought I would pop in and say hi, heading to work.

Sounds like it was a semi productive late night in here last night. Great work on the 3 companies info.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:02:09 AM
just a question for our profiler, very interesting post by the way, did Joran misspell "Arnhem" because Arnhem is the correct spellling of the Dutch city they apparently hail from......I wouldn't put much stock on misspelling on the internet though, that is a matter of typing skill versus spelling, I won awards in spelling as as a child,  I went to law school but my spelling and grammar on the internet is far from stellar


Title: Re: Rene van Heyningen/columbian necktie
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 08:07:27 AM
Quote from: "maritzka"
could someone tell me what this website is about?  I wonder if this is the Rene van Heyningen that they found with his throat slit. There is a photograph.   
                http://www.groenetechnieken.nl/pages_agt/proficiat2003.html


Foremen are congratulated for passing a course.


Title: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: lookingood on June 24, 2005, 08:07:40 AM
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:08:18 AM
my last note is what would make our profiler think the Kalpoe brothers are predators

if one was watching Fox last night and esp the interviews with the mothers, first of all, the Kalpoe brothers have not been in Aruba that long apparently, according to their mother, if I picked that up right and secondly, Mrs. VDS said that the Kalpoe brothers are not Joran's best friends but mates, which I translate as partying buddies, but then Mrs. VDS may be wrong on a lot of things.......

one thing I left out of my post - one has to wonder what if anything the neighbours of the Van Der Sloots saw or heard that night......


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:14:54 AM
okay, one last amendment to my theory

sounds like Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino on the night of May 29th

of course we know Joran left the Holiday Inn Casino and ended up at C & Cs -

now let's assume the Kalpoe brothers dropped off Joran and Natalee at the beach near the Marriott which now seems to be the story they are all singing now

assume something bad happens and Joran panics

Joran has a cell phone, he knows Dad is gambling just up the road, for all we know Dad moved to the Marriott casino and was even closer by

now if Dad was in either of those casinos he'd been on their videotape wouldn't he

hmmmmmmm


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 08:16:19 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

Could Steve have come before PVDS in a legal case at some time and thus be known to PVDS as a potential aid in disposing of the body.

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 08:18:13 AM
just a quick update from hasibokos this am -

Latest developments in The Netherlands (Friday):
The media in The Netherlands has picked up the story about the arrest of Paul van der Sloot on Friday. They reported the following:

Justitie verdenkt de Nederlandse rechter Paul van der S. (53) van het medeplegen van moord, doodslag of ontvoering met de dood tot gevolg. (Read Dutch article here )

Translation:
The justice department suspects the Dutch judge, Paul van der S. (53), of being accessory to murder, manslaughter or kidnapping with dead as consequence.

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:20:47 AM
oh oh it gets better,  the security guards say they never met the boys but when the security guards were arrested it was reported they were known to the police, the one guard has some run in with the law, so maybe Daddy, in his position,  knew these guys had been warned about aggressive behaviour trying to pick up tourists, so he steered the boys towards implicating them?  perhaps as someone who also hangs out in all these places, he's witnessed it, because here is the other thing, the one guard was at the Holiday Inn casino, that night, but was reported to have left at midnight, if Joran's old man was gambling there, he saw Mickey Johns, knew about Abraham Jones run in with the law so then it makes even more sense when he tells the boys to say they dropped off Natalee at the Holiday Inn because he knew Mickey was at the Holiday Inn that night

problem was John and Jones alibi's checked out, no one said Mr. VDS was a rocket scientist

he may have just arrogantly presumed his son and he would be believed over two black security guards


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 08:21:05 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
okay, one last amendment to my theory

sounds like Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino on the night of May 29th

of course we know Joran left the Holiday Inn Casino and ended up at C & Cs -

now let's assume the Kalpoe brothers dropped off Joran and Natalee at the beach near the Marriott which now seems to be the story they are all singing now

assume something bad happens and Joran panics

Joran has a cell phone, he knows Dad is gambling just up the road, for all we know Dad moved to the Marriott casino and was even closer by

now if Dad was in either of those casinos he'd been on their videotape wouldn't he

hmmmmmmm

That has gone through my mind as well. I think Joran was fine with being dropped there bc he knew he had a ride home from someone else. I think it is highly plausable that his father was out, mom was away after all. If their household works like many others, when mom is away things are even more leniant.
On the chance he wasnt there, maybe he actually knew his son was going out to meet this girl and let him. Therefore knowing more then he is telling. Then is could have been more of a "Ok go out, I will pick you up outside the hotel at X time". He then could have asked his son as any parent would how it went. Joran could have said not so good, something bad happened. Anything like this, and you have his father knowing more and holding out information. JMO


Title: Re:Post from Dutch Lady
Post by: maritzka on June 24, 2005, 08:22:06 AM
Quote from: "LemonDrop"
maritzka, VERY interesting insights and I appreciate you taking the time to share all that with us!  I've always had an interest in behavioral science so this case intriques me.  Your analysis is great!
TY georgiablues.  Lemondrop this post  from Dutch Lady was on the Reihl MB.  Everytime I read one of her posts it stays with me.  Not that I believe she is right about everything she says, but she sure causes one to stop and think.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 08:23:08 AM
my comments didn't seem to be attached to Cancon's post - I speculated that Steve Croes came before PVDS in a court case and thus PVDS knew his job discription and realized he could potentially assist with the disposal of evidence, whatever.


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 08:23:34 AM
Quote from: "maritzka"
I am a behavioural profiler who has and is tracing five missing persons, and in the past with language codes found the keys in television interviews of persons. These relayed to authorities may have, and were found to be accurate in the persons having these set patterns in conflict to the words stated.

In the case of Joran Van Der Sloot and what has been written. The following is revealed.

Joran Van Der Sloot at an age before 17, made a tape of a 14 year old girl being gang raped on the island with other members of this 'club on the island - that island was Aruba. The circulation is unknown, and not known if free circulation via his internet site, or the site of the internet cafe. Investigative agencies have a copy of those and that edition one would suppose, and the name of the victim.

Joran Van Der Sloot is credited with having anger management therapy. He is quoted by mothers as being a bully. He shows little respect for those lesser than him in size, parental wealth/status and more academic progress. He is not an 'arts' person, but a game player. His adrenalin high is on winning, and competative sports. He has to win, and having the parentage he has he is set to win at any cost. His money for gambling in casino's therefore is from 'where'?

His 'friends' on weblogs say he had sold the film of the gang rape, not given it. This if true is a crime, and one that if the parents knew is a crime he can be charged with as the hardcopy is on the drive of his computer, but more likely the internet cafe computer as parents can 'look down' at email messages on their computer as can police. Erased messages also can be taken by internet security consultants and also photographs.

Joran Van Der Sloot, his age is nearer to 18 as he says he is a LEO. So he will be 18 soon.Most of his male friends seem older than him, and not a racial bias. He has older friends with the same assets and lifestyle. His webpage shows many spelling errors as in ARNHEM, and wonder of his lucidity in making this page. Common words in neurological function of language can be affected by Wernicke-Korsakoffe confabulation, that is half truth/half fiction. Something that is prevalent in most deviants and sadists found who have personality disorders. It is also a condition in severe alcohol ingestion over time, and of course stroke, brain injury persons in the non alcoholic kind.

Joran Van Der Sloot's home page is his identity. The pages of the photos selected as his own cognitive state show how he wants to be seen. The devils horns and bar behind are scenes above his own age of 17 and status those he wishes to impress. These are girls, and he has to impress those older than him, not younger. Therefore in behavioural traits he is being narcissistic, egotistical, AOD and other drugs dependant in some form, and has to be central to all images of him as the 'sensation seeker' in his own mind. I wonder then of the phenomena of 'folie a deux' as in more than one as Master and apprentice, and if one is ellevated past this?

In the homepages in Holland it is said they think he is being framed. Rubbish, serial killers who have been sent the image of Joran with the neckstrap round the puny boys neck will comment if allowed on the mind of the person doing this. But without that reply I am saying that the photograph shows in body language his full frame as covering the photo and his shirt chosen for its association and his neural firing of AOD pupil reaction. The boy in this is acutely victimised shown by the eyes screwed up, palour and side view as sadism is shown, not playful sex bondage. He exhibits strangulation signs. Of all else, Joran shows no gay attributes, this shown is a victim, not a play act. The facial expression and loss of shirt expose the punyness and lack of identity in contrast to Joran's.

This person will and can be a witness, and I would speculate is from a none skilled, low socio economic family where he takes his bullying tendancies and anger pool from.

I would say abandonment rage is a symptom he displays and he has a rage in the home that is known as outbursts. He engages with his dad, and tests him to the limits. His mother is the least aggressive and passive of the whole lot. She is the calmer of the unit. Joran's own statements as to Natalee have been dissociative. He has sought to distance as has his father from the outside media. Natalee's parents on speaking to the father in the early days may as reported have found him to be condescending, arrogant - as stated and above the law. He is however a trainee judge on the island. The judge in the case is an impartial highly qualified judge who is from another island. He is above Joran's father and most people on the island. He will use behavioral assessments, medical records, and all past behaviour to form an opinion on what Joran and the family have as issues on deviant behaviour already exhibited.

Locals are invaluable in message boards as both devils advocate and as insights into the island and of the person in both supporting and non supporting roles to a behavioural profiler.

The issue of the lighthouse as distancing, there is one other near the International School at the extreme south of the Island.

I do not think this was an impromtu event, due to the fight with the lads of Natalees school and the planning element of cognitive minds in three predators shown to be so by locals on the island and his mode of humiliating girls in groups. He is most likely to have taken her in equal matches of power between the two brothers using the safety key of his fathers position. This is a tool for his authority and credibility.

I have to assume to implicate the guards at her hotel he had to have passed in the car and seen this walkie talkie at some time, or that evening to be able to finger these as suspects to allow his release and those of the other two. Hence he, or the two brothers passed that hotel around that time. I would therefore say for the plan to work, if she is dead, she will have been there in some construction area site to make this stick.

In later retractions and distancing she is now said to be in a lighthouse, which one? Why this lead to the extreme North, she is then said to be on a beach, all of which is past her hotel. She is said to be left on that or a beach with Joran. No it does not cognitively fit. They were all together for some period of time, what time we do not know. It is therefore imperative that the findings are in secret from media in order for the search of what looks like her remains to happen, or cloths/DNA. If she is alive, the reward will allow that person to post on messages that will lead to her finding, for she is still on the land on the island. Not in my view off the island, in the sea, and would look inland as behavioural environmental psychology at the familiarity of the suspects and easy access in a car. My professional insights follow this process.

Posted by: Dutchlady | June 21, 2005 05:35 AM


Well I just love it to wake up and read heavy dose of BS.  First of I think none of us were there, and unless your an interrogator as well all this is speculative as most of the comments here.  I too have gone from one end to the other in finding motives.  Secondly, BH is calling the shots.... I think when it comes to Aruba Tourism, the genuine and sincere purpose of helping the victim families, the cautionary step not to accuse innocent party, the procedural way of working within the country laws, the pressure of the FBI, DEA, Dutch investigators, American media,  and the threat of being boycotted the one and only source of the island income... I believe the Aruba Gov't has really no choice.  Maybe all missing stories run similar, this one has all the twist that would make a Hollywood blockbuster.


Title: Re: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 08:27:04 AM
Quote from: "lookingood"
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 08:29:50 AM
Hollywood Blockbuster - I have been thinking book deal since the beginning but when Greta got the 2 families together I added a zero to the price and with Dad's involvement - Brad Pitt in platforms is my pick for JVDS - it is unbelievably fertile ground - decapitation, a little artistic license never hurt - rainbow coloured houses owned by drug addled illegit son of - it goes on and on.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:30:11 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
my comments didn't seem to be attached to Cancon's post - I speculated that Steve Croes came before PVDS in a court case and thus PVDS knew his job discription and realized he could potentially assist with the disposal of evidence, whatever.


the question is though if Croes wasn't a friend of Joran but Deepak why would Croes put himself out for Joran and his old man, which is where my theory is weak, Croes might put himself out for Deepak but even then, it doesn't like Croes and Deepak were bosom buddies either? the only thing we know is that Croes corroborated the false alibi, he told police he saw the boys dropping Nat off at the Holiday Inn

I wonder sometimes if Croes wasn't in the vicinity of that beach and got dragged into this somehow if he wasn't directly involved in the first place

I mean if someone calls you up in the middle of the night to help dispose of a body, I don't think you'd do it for many people, even if you were a criminal type, because of the risk,  unless they paid him some big money or they had some blackmail dirt on him.....was there a pending legal case and the father agreed to get it fixed somehow? still sounds too sophisticated for all one night's activity


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tkubi7 on June 24, 2005, 08:31:06 AM
Fox news update...interview (didn't catch the name) states PVDS WAS followed for some days prior to arrest.


Title: Re: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:32:05 AM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "lookingood"
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.


no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:33:15 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
Hollywood Blockbuster - I have been thinking book deal since the beginning but when Greta got the 2 families together I added a zero to the price and with Dad's involvement - Brad Pitt in platforms is my pick for JVDS - it is unbelievably fertile ground - decapitation, a little artistic license never hurt - rainbow coloured houses owned by drug addled illegit son of - it goes on and on.


oh dear, even Brad Pitt is way too old to play Joran, think one of the OC actors,

now I can see Gary Oldman playing the father


Title: Re: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 08:34:10 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "lookingood"
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.


no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum


No not manslaughter, abandoment is specifically covered in dutch law (art.255)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 08:34:30 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "sandy"
Hollywood Blockbuster - I have been thinking book deal since the beginning but when Greta got the 2 families together I added a zero to the price and with Dad's involvement - Brad Pitt in platforms is my pick for JVDS - it is unbelievably fertile ground - decapitation, a little artistic license never hurt - rainbow coloured houses owned by drug addled illegit son of - it goes on and on.


oh dear, even Brad Pitt is way too old to play Joran, think one of the OC actors,

now I can see Gary Oldman playing the father

Paul Walker from the fast and the furious might do well too for Joran.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 08:35:24 AM
[I mean if someone calls you up in the middle of the night to help dispose of a body, I don't think you'd do it for many people, even if you were a criminal type, because of the risk,  unless they paid him some big money or they had some blackmail dirt on him.....was there a pending legal case and the father agreed to get it fixed somehow? still sounds too sophisticated for all one night's activity[/quote]

I agree it is a difficult connection to make - but I bring in something that has bothered me - the alleged break in at the Fisherman's Hut - why was that not reported 2 weeks ago - that surfaced very recently - at least in our discussions - was Steve in one of the huts when Dad and Joran were freaking out on the beach over Natalee's comatose / deceased body.


Title: Re: RBN#21
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 08:37:38 AM
Quote from: "wbvious"
Nice work Sobelle...

key words here might be import/export business...

import/export businesses are sometimes just that, but sometimes a lot more is involved ....

the below link was posted a long time ago on the theory & speculation page but it may be of value to all the newcomers and especially with its context here...

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

"A magnificent washing-machine is sold here, its trademark is Aruba. The machine is an Aruban-Colombian product, its model called Cartel. The brand is well-known for its good performance in the United States and Europe. It is recommended by former ministers, members of Parliament, owners of casinos, supermarkets, cosmetics manufacturers and importers of cars and batteries. The washing-machine fits everybody who has become inexplicably rich from one day to another."
                        -Elio Nicolaas, former minister & police officer


that is interesting th hear vfrom Eloi Nicolaas...anyone know how Elio N.
is historically tied into the town of SAN NICOLAAS??


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Curiosity on June 24, 2005, 08:38:23 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
okay, one last amendment to my theory

sounds like Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino on the night of May 29th

of course we know Joran left the Holiday Inn Casino and ended up at C & Cs -

now let's assume the Kalpoe brothers dropped off Joran and Natalee at the beach near the Marriott which now seems to be the story they are all singing now

assume something bad happens and Joran panics

Joran has a cell phone, he knows Dad is gambling just up the road, for all we know Dad moved to the Marriott casino and was even closer by

now if Dad was in either of those casinos he'd been on their videotape wouldn't he

hmmmmmmm


I must have missed something in my readings. Do we have proof that Joren's dad was at a casino that night?? If so could someone post a news link? Thanks.


Title: dutch lady delusions
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 08:40:35 AM
compananzi,  thanks for putting the above delusional dutch woman into perspective?   might be right on some points but no motive for murder.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:41:37 AM
oh I just remembered, some smart posters at this forum also noted there was a special concert or festival going on in the area of the Holiday Inn and all the security guards were dressed in black

now again, if Joran's father is out partying in this vicinity instead of at home he would have seen all the security guards dressed in black, and indeed even the boys would have noticed all the security guards in black, so why not implicate a security guard  or guards dressed in black when you know the vicinity was crawling with guards dressed in black or in fact Joran may have seen a few of these guys near the Marriott, when they were off duty

how convenient, you have hundreds of potential suspects, then, perhaps it was by sheer accident they picked up John and Jones or maybe that was because John has been seen at the Holiday Inn that night and they knew Jones was his best buddy and trolled for chicks together

perhaps the old man VDS presumed it would take days to question all these security guards.......


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: gaijin on June 24, 2005, 08:42:14 AM
My God people. 7:40 in the mgn here ..and there are already twenty pages to go through......
Good mgn everyone.


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 08:43:52 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"


Well I just love it to wake up and read heavy dose of BS.  First of I think none of us were there, and unless your an interrogator as well all this is speculative as most of the comments here.  I too have gone from one end to the other in finding motives.  Secondly, BH is calling the shots.... I think when it comes to Aruba Tourism, the genuine and sincere purpose of helping the victim families, the cautionary step not to accuse innocent party, the procedural way of working within the country laws, the pressure of the FBI, DEA, Dutch investigators, American media,  and the threat of being boycotted the one and only source of the island income... I believe the Aruba Gov't has really no choice.  Maybe all missing stories run similar, this one has all the twist that would make a Hollywood blockbuster.


thank you, Companazi. i'm relieved to hear it's not just me!  :oops:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:44:26 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
[I mean if someone calls you up in the middle of the night to help dispose of a body, I don't think you'd do it for many people, even if you were a criminal type, because of the risk,  unless they paid him some big money or they had some blackmail dirt on him.....was there a pending legal case and the father agreed to get it fixed somehow? still sounds too sophisticated for all one night's activity


I agree it is a difficult connection to make - but I bring in something that has bothered me - the alleged break in at the Fisherman's Hut - why was that not reported 2 weeks ago - that surfaced very recently - at least in our discussions - was Steve in one of the huts when Dad and Joran were freaking out on the beach over Natalee's comatose / deceased body.[/quote]

the only other possibility of course is that Steve was involved more deeply in which case he had a personal stake in dumping the body


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 08:44:29 AM
To pick up on a point made late yesterday - Beth was not seen publicly yesterday - am I right? - is there any talk of her making an appearance today - someone was speculating she had been given bad news or something


Title: Re: dutch lady delusions
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 08:47:24 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
compananzi,  thanks for putting the above delusional dutch woman into perspective?   might be right on some points but no motive for murder.


morning IQ---
didn't you post yesterday that
lorenzoes last name was Frankie???


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 08:48:18 AM
it must be more and more difficult to say that she believes natalee is alive...as much as she must want to believe it.   :cry:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:48:48 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
To pick up on a point made late yesterday - Beth was not seen publicly yesterday - am I right? - is there any talk of her making an appearance today - someone was speculating she had been given bad news or something


no she was on Larry King Live and Geraldo interviewed her on the Factor, insisted her daughter was kidnapped and still on the island

she wasn't on Greta's show, she focused on Mrs. Kalpoe and Mrs. VDS


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 08:50:06 AM
i hope she's right -- i stand corrected!  :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:50:08 AM
well ciao kids, I think I've done some pretty good brainstorming here, putting some pieces together here now that we know the father is a suspect, discuss amongst yourselves


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: maritzka on June 24, 2005, 08:50:10 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "Compananzi"


Well I just love it to wake up and read heavy dose of BS.  First of I think none of us were there, and unless your an interrogator as well all this is speculative as most of the comments here.  I too have gone from one end to the other in finding motives.  Secondly, BH is calling the shots.... I think when it comes to Aruba Tourism, the genuine and sincere purpose of helping the victim families, the cautionary step not to accuse innocent party, the procedural way of working within the country laws, the pressure of the FBI, DEA, Dutch investigators, American media,  and the threat of being boycotted the one and only source of the island income... I believe the Aruba Gov't has really no choice.  Maybe all missing stories run similar, this one has all the twist that would make a Hollywood blockbuster.


thank you, Companazi. i'm relieved to hear it's not just me!  :oops:
I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 24, 2005, 08:50:43 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
To pick up on a point made late yesterday - Beth was not seen publicly yesterday - am I right? - is there any talk of her making an appearance today - someone was speculating she had been given bad news or something


She was interviewed tho, for the H and C's show.  I too did notice her lack of appearance of the television and wondered if she had been advised to limit what she says to the media now that PVDS has been arrested?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 08:50:54 AM
I guess everyone must be waiting for their coffee to kick in - it is a little quiet!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Harley on June 24, 2005, 08:53:12 AM
I have been lurking for quite a while and finally decided to post.  I have a theory and haven't seen it posted so I was wondering what all of you might think about it.

What if there is a gang of a dozen or so young men on the island that get their kicks out of drugging unsuspecting female tourists and raping them.  Not in a huge group, either individually or in small groups and then they all get together and brag about it.  That would explain the rumors of additional arrests.  In this particular case maybe what happened is that unfortunately Natalee died, Joren freaked and had his dad and/or friends help with hiding her.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:53:54 AM
just ignore the negative people,  we all got our theories, we all can constructively question each other's theories and try to clarify the facts and the rumours as best we can


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 08:57:08 AM
Quote from: "Harley"
I have been lurking for quite a while and finally decided to post.  I have a theory and haven't seen it posted so I was wondering what all of you might think about it.

What if there is a gang of a dozen or so young men on the island that get their kicks out of drugging unsuspecting female tourists and raping them.  Not in a huge group, either individually or in small groups and then they all get together and brag about it.  That would explain the rumors of additional arrests.  In this particular case maybe what happened is that unfortunately Natalee died, Joren freaked and had his dad and/or friends help with hiding her.


me bad, you are not necessarily farfetched, that would be the nasty scenario, and maybe not just young guys involved?

well it was interesting to note that when Greta asked each mother what the police seized from each house, videotapes, DVDs and cameras were part of the booty along with all the computers, no doubt looking for that infamous gang bang tape Geraldo spoke about one night and haven't since, now maybe Geraldo was told by the Aruban police to keep his mouth shut on that one, it could be central to their case

do we know if the internet cafe computers were seized as well?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Curiosity on June 24, 2005, 08:58:05 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
well ciao kids, I think I've done some pretty good brainstorming here, putting some pieces together here now that we know the father is a suspect, discuss amongst yourselves


I did hear a lawyer on CNN state that he hoped they had reasonable evidence to arrest Joren's father on, because even if he's innocent, his arrest will ruin his career in Aruba forever.  

I also thought it was interesting that the various lawyers said that in Aruba, the father can't be held guilty for not disclosing anything Joren might have told him about a crime. He can be held accountable if he actually saw evidence of his son't involvement of a crime however.


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: georgiablues on June 24, 2005, 08:58:34 AM
Quote from: "maritzka"

I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.


Maritzka, don't mind these guys.  For days people have been saying "would like to hear what a profiler has to say" - it was nice of you to share Dutchlady's post with us here.  Some of us like to look at all points of view.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 08:59:06 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
just ignore the negative people,  we all got our theories, we all can constructively question each other's theories

Right Cancon....
What do you think of Elio Nicolaas and the great washing machine
Lorenzoes family may have run for Aua
 thru the caribbean with the help of Elio Nicolass(polis)?
and Paulus vds (Liason to dutch/NA) ...I have to go to work soon but
will continue to poder this looking bigger each day...


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: LemonDrop on June 24, 2005, 08:59:20 AM
Quote from: "maritzka"
I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.


I'm a newbie and I'm gonna make a stand and STICK around no matter what!  So stay with me and we'll be partners in crime.   :lol:  Don't let anyone run you off!  Especially rude people....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:01:09 AM
however I would find it hard to believe you could do this often and get away with it, once maybe, but several times

though if you use the date rape drug, supposedly the women cannot remember or there may be some kinky chicks who enjoy that sort of thing?

that is why I am curious if this tape story is true because if it is, it is amazing these kids didn't get hauled into the station for this, maybe they did, maybe they got their knuckles rapped,  

I'd find it hard to believe someone wouldn't have squealed to a parent about this tape esp if it were your friend who was the victim?  because this tape was supposedly of an Aruban girl not a tourist


Title: responding to question on other abduction
Post by: Dublin on June 24, 2005, 09:03:11 AM
just posting an article on a previous abduction in the islands that "went wrong" for the kidnappers. They'd kidnapped a child for ransome, but there is a kidnapping team that thwarted the kidnapping.

Quote
Another kidnapping in T&T
Less than 24 hours after police held four people including a woman in the abduction of a three-year-old toddler, authorities began probing another kidnapping in Trinidad and Tobago. This time it was a 71-year-old gas station owner. The Anti-Kidnapping Squad moved quickly and rescued the man based on a tip. He was found in a wooden shack unhurt.

The police said no ransom had been paid for the man, who was at his gas station in the capital Port of Spain when three men shoved him into a car and sped off. No one has been arrested in connection with the kidnapping.



http://www.hotcalaloo.com/july04.htm#Another%20kidnapping

This article summarizes the increase in kidnap for ransom in the carribean.
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2004/07/12/secret.htm

And if you think Aruba is safe, read the police records below, which include a kidnapping of a young mother of 4;

http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20engels/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20engels/2005/2005-06-nieuwsbronnen-engels/2005-00-nieuwsbronnen-engels-actueel.htm


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Curiosity on June 24, 2005, 09:05:18 AM
Speaking of dad van der sloot's arrest, I really feel bad for his wife. THis must really be a crusher to first have her son arrested and now her husband. But I also think she's totally naive or not facing reality. On Greta's show she contradicts herself by saying there are rules (like being in by 11 PM) and in another sentence says they have tried giving more lieniency because Joren was graduating soon. To look at the various pictures that he posted on the web, Joren didn't slip out one night....he slipped out countless nights! Mama van der sloot isn't living in the real world of what her son is up to.


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 09:05:38 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "maritzka"

I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.


Maritzka, don't mind these guys.  For days people have been saying "would like to hear what a profiler has to say" - it was nice of you to share Dutchlady's post with us here.  Some of us like to look at all points of view.


I agree. There are always going to be people who dont agree or jump on someone for something. It doesnt mean everyone here feels that way. I read the post your shared and I like to have the opportunity to read diff points of view. That is what I thought this board was for. As with any board you will have ppl who dont agree with you or clicks so to speak. Dont let it deter you.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: air23ac on June 24, 2005, 09:05:43 AM
regarding the fbi lowring its man count there........i think, in addition to, the fact that they are on the side lines so to speak.........there is a feeling that aruban defense lawyers will start trying to set the tone that it was american influence(fbi) and their clients were not treated fairly because of the pressure to solve the case for the americans....

i don't agree but i can see this being a reality.


Title: Re: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: scared-tom on June 24, 2005, 09:06:22 AM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "lookingood"
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.


no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum


No not manslaughter, abandoment is specifically covered in dutch law (art.255)


Thanks Gerben, that is some great information. I am not sure that the US law has that same category. We would consider it involuntary manslaughter.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:08:05 AM
that kidnapping was not in Aruba, that newsletter was from all over the Caribbean that kidnapping was from Dutch Guyana


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Harley on June 24, 2005, 09:08:21 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
however I would find it hard to believe you could do this often and get away with it, once maybe, but several times

though if you use the date rape drug, supposedly the women cannot remember or there may be some kinky chicks who enjoy that sort of thing?

that is why I am curious if this tape story is true because if it is, it is amazing these kids didn't get hauled into the station for this, maybe they did, maybe they got their knuckles rapped,  

I'd find it hard to believe someone wouldn't have squealed to a parent about this tape esp if it were your friend who was the victim?  because this tape was supposedly of an Aruban girl not a tourist



Actually I was thinking that a lot of women probably wouldn't report it happening, either because they were embarrassed or just because they really have no memory of what happened.  Even in the US a lot of rapes go unreported due to how victims get treated in the courtroom by the defense attorneys.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 09:09:45 AM
Quote from: "air23ac"
regarding the fbi lowring its man count there........i think, in addition to, the fact that they are on the side lines so to speak.........there is a feeling that aruban defense lawyers will start trying to set the tone that it was american influence(fbi) and their clients were not treated fairly because of the pressure to solve the case for the americans....

i don't agree but i can see this being a reality.

I also saw someone on Fox last night cant remember who though (was changing the baby) that said they felt as if the fbi might also be leaving bc they were not there to be anyones errand boys. In other words they are basically sitting on the sidelines at this point. They also said they would be involved with this case and continue giving the resources as long as they are asked to do so. The FBI is there as observers right now, how many do you need to observe the case? So this might also be why the cut back.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 24, 2005, 09:10:05 AM
Perhaps in other cases, the victims were sexually active young females.  If a date rape drug is used, they might not even know what happened.  They get taken back to the hotel, they are to leave the next day, and the "fun" is undetected.

Suddenly they guessed wrong with Natalee.  She is inexperienced, so any sign of sexual activity would "show" so to speak.  Perhaps she did not dring enough of the drug, but woke up crying rape--with the physical evidence to prove it.  

I keep going back to maybe the dad actually is the one who killed her--perhaps to silence her screams.


Title: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 09:10:30 AM
did we ever parse the "they (were joran and father) seen together at the casinos or mr. v/d sloot frequented the casinos''  rumors or did we buy them whole?  don't know where thus came from.

...and by the way it is a hoot how we have demonized gambling which is spreading like cancer in the us, lotteries, riverboats slots, indian casinos, why it is practically legalized!  is this another example of southern (demonize gambling and send your kid to a gambling haven for a senior trip) hypocrisy?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 09:11:54 AM
kidnapping is big business in central and south america why not the carribbean? but those kidnapped are usually known to the kidnappers. they're doing this for the money...why kidnap some unknown american?

and despite what the authorities may say, the families pay. our local aruban friends will know if this is a problem on the island.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:12:23 AM
there is some offence for leaving someone to die when you could have rendered them assistance, I just can't remember what it is

criminal negligent homicide I believe is when you do something that you knew would cause the death of a person

in manslaughter, I think there are two degress of manslaughter - one when you ought to have known your actions could cause someone's death,  and one where you had no intent but your actions did cause someone's death


Title: Re: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
did we ever parse the "they (were joran and father) seen together at the casinos or mr. v/d sloot frequented the casinos''  rumors or did we buy them whole?  don't know where thus came from.

...and by the way it is a hoot how we have demonized gambling which is spreading like cancer in the us, lotteries, riverboats slots, indian casinos, why it is practically legalized!  is this another example of southern (demonize gambling and send your kid to a gambling haven for a senior trip) hypocrisy?


I for one love gambling. I lived in southern Ca for 26 yrs and moved to NC a few yrs back. I know SC has gambling as my in laws go there frequently. You are correct however that many many southerners for some reason are against it. Point in case our state doesnt even have the lottery because some group here cries that it is a form of gambling, and somehow is therefore unchristian. I file it under souther folklore myself.


Title: Re: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
did we ever parse the "they (were joran and father) seen together at the casinos or mr. v/d sloot frequented the casinos''  rumors or did we buy them whole?  don't know where thus came from.

...and by the way it is a hoot how we have demonized gambling which is spreading like cancer in the us, lotteries, riverboats slots, indian casinos, why it is practically legalized!  is this another example of southern (demonize gambling and send your kid to a gambling haven for a senior trip) hypocrisy?


Iquitos...I'm sorry but I have to take exception for your comment about "Southern Hypocrisy". I have big news for you there is hypocrisy all over the country and all over the world for that matter. We Southerners DO NOT have the corner on the market.

This whole situation is a tragedy for humanity. The potential loss of a young life with a bright future and chanve to make a difference in the world. This is a tragedy for all the Natalee's that are missing and/or dead. The grief of the families on both sides, the grief of all the Aruban's and the grief of all those in the states. My heart just aches over all this.

::back to lurk mode::


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 09:16:27 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
however I would find it hard to believe you could do this often and get away with it, once maybe, but several times

though if you use the date rape drug, supposedly the women cannot remember or there may be some kinky chicks who enjoy that sort of thing?

that is why I am curious if this tape story is true because if it is, it is amazing these kids didn't get hauled into the station for this, maybe they did, maybe they got their knuckles rapped,  

I'd find it hard to believe someone wouldn't have squealed to a parent about this tape esp if it were your friend who was the victim?  because this tape was supposedly of an Aruban girl not a tourist


   :arrow:  What if you went to polis and they
 blew u off  totally/blaming victim
OR what if u knew u polis liked the vidoes too/or knew polis already
knew of this activity and  consistently looked the other way?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:17:45 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Speaking of dad van der sloot's arrest, I really feel bad for his wife. THis must really be a crusher to first have her son arrested and now her husband. But I also think she's totally naive or not facing reality. On Greta's show she contradicts herself by saying there are rules (like being in by 11 PM) and in another sentence says they have tried giving more lieniency because Joren was graduating soon. To look at the various pictures that he posted on the web, Joren didn't slip out one night....he slipped out countless nights! Mama van der sloot isn't living in the real world of what her son is up to.


indeed, I thought it was funny when Jug Twitty was asked about Mrs. Kalpoe's interview with Greta, he said well at least Mrs. Kalpoe seems to know her sons a lot better than Mrs. Van Der Sloot knows her kid, she at least admitted to confronting her sons


Title: Re: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: LemonDrop on June 24, 2005, 09:18:34 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"

...and by the way it is a hoot how we have demonized gambling which is spreading like cancer in the us, lotteries, riverboats slots, indian casinos, why it is practically legalized!  is this another example of southern (demonize gambling and send your kid to a gambling haven for a senior trip) hypocrisy?


Who has demonized gambling?  It's a form of entertainment.  Some people gamble, others don't.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 09:19:06 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
oh I just remembered, some smart posters at this forum also noted there was a special concert or festival going on in the area of the Holiday Inn and all the security guards were dressed in black

now again, if Joran's father is out partying in this vicinity instead of at home he would have seen all the security guards dressed in black, and indeed even the boys would have noticed all the security guards in black, so why not implicate a security guard  or guards dressed in black when you know the vicinity was crawling with guards dressed in black or in fact Joran may have seen a few of these guys near the Marriott, when they were off duty

how convenient, you have hundreds of potential suspects, then, perhaps it was by sheer accident they picked up John and Jones or maybe that was because John has been seen at the Holiday Inn that night and they knew Jones was his best buddy and trolled for chicks together

perhaps the old man VDS presumed it would take days to question all these security guards.......


Paulus really does not look like the partying type...He's 53, studying for his judgeship, and most Dutch people are really reserved.  Like the Brittish if there was a comparison.  BH does seem to think her daughter has been kidnapped, and I m not sure if a ransom was asked for?  If we go with this line of thought, how and where would the would be captors have gotten the idea of Nat being a perfect target?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MominTN on June 24, 2005, 09:19:25 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Speaking of dad van der sloot's arrest, I really feel bad for his wife. THis must really be a crusher to first have her son arrested and now her husband. But I also think she's totally naive or not facing reality. On Greta's show she contradicts herself by saying there are rules (like being in by 11 PM) and in another sentence says they have tried giving more lieniency because Joren was graduating soon. To look at the various pictures that he posted on the web, Joren didn't slip out one night....he slipped out countless nights! Mama van der sloot isn't living in the real world of what her son is up to.


I feel sorry for all of the mothers.  Children do not understand how much they worry their mothers and break their hearts when they do something wrong.  However, I do not pay much attention to what the mothers say about Joran and Kalpoe being good boys because all mothers think this and will say this after their kids are arrested.  It would mean more if other people outside the family made these statements but we haven't heard any.  I think the boys were living a much wilder free lifestyle than their parents will admit.  Perhaps their parents were too busy or self-absorbed and just didn't notice.  Alot of kids are good at fooling their parents.  I think the boys lead to Natalee's disappearance, no matter what their intentions were, and the mothers are going to have alot of grief to deal with when they find out the truth about what their boys did.  The boys will try to keep it from their mothers even if they are guilty.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 09:20:59 AM
exactly - i can't see natalie as a target either. and if anyone can bring up a documented story of an american being kidnapped and sold into slavery, i'd be very interested to read it.


Title: Re: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: waited_too_long on June 24, 2005, 09:22:18 AM
Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "lookingood"
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.


no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum


No not manslaughter, abandoment is specifically covered in dutch law (art.255)


Thanks Gerben, that is some great information. I am not sure that the US law has that same category. We would consider it involuntary manslaughter.


I agree, good information. There are pretty rigid guidelines even in the US on when a person must assist. Skiers involved in a collision, driver in an accident... There must be some special relationship betrween the individuals. Simply present when a victim is in respiratory arrest from accidental drug overdose? No.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:23:14 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "cancon"
however I would find it hard to believe you could do this often and get away with it, once maybe, but several times

though if you use the date rape drug, supposedly the women cannot remember or there may be some kinky chicks who enjoy that sort of thing?

that is why I am curious if this tape story is true because if it is, it is amazing these kids didn't get hauled into the station for this, maybe they did, maybe they got their knuckles rapped,  

I'd find it hard to believe someone wouldn't have squealed to a parent about this tape esp if it were your friend who was the victim?  because this tape was supposedly of an Aruban girl not a tourist


   :arrow:  What if you went to polis and they
 blew u off  totally/blaming victim
OR what if u knew u polis liked the vidoes too/or knew polis already
knew of this activity and  consistently looked the other way?


oh I understand but if Joran and friends were posting this stuff on the internet and/or selling this tape on the island, hard to believe someone somewhere on the island wouldn't have stumbled upon this and reported it to the police, depends on how long ago this was too I suppose if the story is true

I mean they catch child pornographers all the time, in fact I find it stunning that child pornographers still use the internet to spread their filth to other pedophiles knowing the cops got the internet wired to catch these guys, look at Pete Townsend, he got arrested for downloading one photo once, for research he claimed because he was a victim of sexual abuse as a child


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:28:17 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "cancon"
oh I just remembered, some smart posters at this forum also noted there was a special concert or festival going on in the area of the Holiday Inn and all the security guards were dressed in black

now again, if Joran's father is out partying in this vicinity instead of at home he would have seen all the security guards dressed in black, and indeed even the boys would have noticed all the security guards in black, so why not implicate a security guard  or guards dressed in black when you know the vicinity was crawling with guards dressed in black or in fact Joran may have seen a few of these guys near the Marriott, when they were off duty

how convenient, you have hundreds of potential suspects, then, perhaps it was by sheer accident they picked up John and Jones or maybe that was because John has been seen at the Holiday Inn that night and they knew Jones was his best buddy and trolled for chicks together

perhaps the old man VDS presumed it would take days to question all these security guards.......


Paulus really does not look like the partying type...He's 53, studying for his judgeship, and most Dutch people are really reserved.  Like the Brittish if there was a comparison.  BH does seem to think her daughter has been kidnapped, and I m not sure if a ransom was asked for?  If we go with this line of thought, how and where would the would be captors have gotten the idea of Nat being a perfect target?


well looks can be deceiving-  everyone thought Ted Bundy was a nice preppy young man, the kind of guy most parents would love their daughter to bring home,

the biggest drinker and driver in our town is a judge and he gets away with it precisely because no cop would dare give him a ticket

he may not be a partyer/drinker but he may be addicted to gambling,  my own 67 year old aunt has become addicted to slots and she's got my mother going with her


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 09:29:24 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
exactly - i can't see natalie as a target either. and if anyone can bring up a documented story of an american being kidnapped and sold into slavery, i'd be very interested to read it.


Someone mentioned that months ago an American tourist went missing, the parents came to aruba and nothing was found till a week later she showed up, appearently spending time with some Arubian lover... I can't seem to find any info other the post.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:29:44 AM
and i am sorry I know from my own very frequent observations, when the wives are away, the husbands will play........


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 09:30:24 AM
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: tcumom on June 24, 2005, 09:30:25 AM
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "maritzka"

I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.


Maritzka, don't mind these guys.  For days people have been saying "would like to hear what a profiler has to say" - it was nice of you to share Dutchlady's post with us here.  Some of us like to look at all points of view.



Please continue to post - I must be dense - I didn't even realize someone had been offensive to you!  I appreciated your post.  thanks


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:31:14 AM
heck I'm a former lawyer, law students and lawyers can drink as good as anyone else......


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 09:32:17 AM
now i really got to go, take care kids, let's hope this day brings this case closer to a resolution


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 09:32:55 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "mojo"
exactly - i can't see natalie as a target either. and if anyone can bring up a documented story of an american being kidnapped and sold into slavery, i'd be very interested to read it.


Someone mentioned that months ago an American tourist went missing, the parents came to aruba and nothing was found till a week later she showed up, appearently spending time with some Arubian lover... I can't seem to find any info other the post.


thanks, Comananzi - that would be Amy Bradley i think. she worked on a cruise ship that docked in Aruba and she disappeared. the official explanation was that she fell over board, but to my knowledge there has been no trace of her.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: joebob on June 24, 2005, 09:33:04 AM
From http://www.hasibokos.com:

"The justice department suspects the Dutch judge, Paul van der S. (53), of accessory to murder, manslaughter or kidnapping with dead as consequence."




That sure doesn't leave much room for good news.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
now i really got to go, take care kids, let's hope this day brings this case closer to a resolution


bye guys....
thank to everyone for insight and input
welcome newbies!!! keep posting!! 8)


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 09:34:38 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


*******

Just a comment about evidence and forensics. The VDS house was searched for 4 hours and materials were removed as well as the 2 cars and sent to Holland (i think) for processing last week or so. Perhaps the Aruban LE has the forensics reports back and that coupled with all the stories falling apart is why we are beginning to see some movement on the case.

It's just a thought....


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: amillerwvu on June 24, 2005, 09:34:47 AM
Quote from: "maritzka"
quote]I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.


Don't apologize...keep posting :D


Title: Re: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 09:34:54 AM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"

Iquitos...I'm sorry but I have to take exception for your comment about "Southern Hypocrisy". I have big news for you there is hypocrisy all over the country and all over the world for that matter. We Southerners DO NOT have the corner on the market.
::back to lurk mode::


Don't be sorry...this isn't the first time Iquitos has posted comments like this.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tkubi7 on June 24, 2005, 09:36:32 AM
[
Someone mentioned that months ago an American tourist went missing, the parents came to aruba and nothing was found till a week later she showed up, appearently spending time with some Arubian lover... I can't seem to find any info other the post.[/quote]

thanks, Comananzi - that would be Amy Bradley i think. she worked on a cruise ship that docked in Aruba and she disappeared. the official explanation was that she fell over board, but to my knowledge there has been no trace of her.[/quote]
Amy Bradley has never been found but I did read that story you are referring to as well.


Title: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 09:37:36 AM
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joran may incriminate himself and father.

It also bothers me the Mother said Joran would kick her ass infront of her mother, if she is found.

I am still skeptical about the brothers. Why agree to help cover for someone? Why say Natalee was rude and didn't introduce herself? Why say things like get a room. Sounds like statements meant to deflect attention from them. It doesn't sound like innocent talk to me.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 09:38:18 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
[
Someone mentioned that months ago an American tourist went missing, the parents came to aruba and nothing was found till a week later she showed up, appearently spending time with some Arubian lover... I can't seem to find any info other the post.


thanks, Comananzi - that would be Amy Bradley i think. she worked on a cruise ship that docked in Aruba and she disappeared. the official explanation was that she fell over board, but to my knowledge there has been no trace of her.[/quote]
Amy Bradley has never been found but I did read that story you are referring to as well.[/quote]

and i totally blew that one, i apologize. two different stories.  :roll:


Title: Re: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 09:38:42 AM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"

Iquitos...I'm sorry but I have to take exception for your comment about "Southern Hypocrisy". I have big news for you there is hypocrisy all over the country and all over the world for that matter. We Southerners DO NOT have the corner on the market.
::back to lurk mode::


Don't be sorry...this isn't the first time Iquitos has posted comments like this.


Thanks Pinemeadows...maybe I'm just sensitive to "Southern" comments. While I grew up in Birmingham and now live in Atlanta, I have spent the last 20 years traveling for business and I am continually amazed at the numbers people across the country who think we still have slaves.


Title: Re: Posted on Reihl World View By Dutch Lady
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 09:39:14 AM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "maritzka"

I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.


Maritzka, don't mind these guys.  For days people have been saying "would like to hear what a profiler has to say" - it was nice of you to share Dutchlady's post with us here.  Some of us like to look at all points of view.



Please continue to post - I must be dense - I didn't even realize someone had been offensive to you!  I appreciated your post.  thanks
 

maritzka.  if you posted the dutch lady item it was  a great find.  if i commneted negatively on it it was because i do not thnk she is on track not because i don't appreciate the post.  keep posting.  all info is welcome and the curious monkeys will be all over it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 09:40:17 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
[
Someone mentioned that months ago an American tourist went missing, the parents came to aruba and nothing was found till a week later she showed up, appearently spending time with some Arubian lover... I can't seem to find any info other the post.


thanks, Comananzi - that would be Amy Bradley i think. she worked on a cruise ship that docked in Aruba and she disappeared. the official explanation was that she fell over board, but to my knowledge there has been no trace of her.[/quote]
Amy Bradley has never been found but I did read that story you are referring to as well.[/quote]

I think these are two different cases. Amy Bradley was on vacation with her family on a cruise ship in 1998; she disappeared, allegedly with someone who worked on the ship. The belief is that she was part of the sex trade because she eventually ended up in a brothel and told an American soldier her name and that she needed help. Unfortunately they went back to get her and the brothel was closed down. (This is what's been discussed on the message boards; I haven't seen a news report to confirm the story about the soldier).

As for the girl who went missing a few months ago, only to turn up a few days later, I've seen discussion on the message boards about that, too. I don't know many details, though.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mariloo1 on June 24, 2005, 09:40:21 AM
Iquitos, don 't know what your feeling on gambling is, but I am born and raised in Miss and have traveled extensively.  Yes, we gamble here in Miss.  Some here think it is an awful thing along with consuming alcohol, etc.  I love to gamble and only allow so much money to do this with, however I have witnessed people going there with their welfare checks and I wonder about the poor children left at home with nothing.  This is the root to some of the so called "southern hipocrasy" because the very religious believe gambling is addictive and therefore will destroy the family.  I fear addicts of any sort because they will stop at nothing to fulfill their desire.  I can feel the distaste in your posts for the southern people.  We are very fierce about our families and will defend to the death but on the other hand, we discipline our kids and teach them to do right by others.  I am speaking of the majority of southern people.  We do not want to raise a child everyone hates to see coming.  However, there are bad apples in every community, city, state , or country.  I believe if you come here, you will be treated with respect.  Nat's family are beside themselves and they are doing a great job.  If I was there, I probably would have been arrested by now because I would have not let up on Joran.  I believe as a mother myself, he would have talked to me.


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 09:44:57 AM
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Iquitos, don 't know what your feeling on gambling is, but I am born and raised in Miss and have traveled extensively.  Yes, we gamble here in Miss.  Some here think it is an awful thing along with consuming alcohol, etc.  I love to gamble and only allow so much money to do this with, however I have witnessed people going there with their welfare checks and I wonder about the poor children left at home with nothing.  This is the root to some of the so called "southern hipocrasy" because the very religious believe gambling is addictive and therefore will destroy the family.  I fear addicts of any sort because they will stop at nothing to fulfill their desire.  I can feel the distaste in your posts for the southern people.  We are very fierce about our families and will defend to the death but on the other hand, we discipline our kids and teach them to do right by others.  I am speaking of the majority of southern people.  We do not want to raise a child everyone hates to see coming.  However, there are bad apples in every community, city, state , or country.  I believe if you come here, you will be treated with respect.  Nat's family are beside themselves and they are doing a great job.  If I was there, I probably would have been arrested by now because I would have not let up on Joran.  I believe as a mother myself, he would have talked to me.


You wouldn't only be treated with respect--you'd be WARMLY WELCOMED by almost everyone. People always think Kentucky is the most backwards place on the planet until they come for Derby and then they see how genteel, welcoming, and fun it is. Southerners are kind and hospitable--you should visit and see for yourself.


Title: Re: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 09:45:54 AM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"

Iquitos...I'm sorry but I have to take exception for your comment about "Southern Hypocrisy". I have big news for you there is hypocrisy all over the country and all over the world for that matter. We Southerners DO NOT have the corner on the market.
::back to lurk mode::


Don't be sorry...this isn't the first time Iquitos has posted comments like this.


Thanks Pinemeadows...maybe I'm just sensitive to "Southern" comments. While I grew up in Birmingham and now live in Atlanta, I have spent the last 20 years traveling for business and I am continually amazed at the numbers people across the country who think we still have slaves.
 

sorry i was going to say baptist (maybe red state is better) hypocricy would have been better.  i agree all too many of us play the double standard.  we are a hypocritical society.  i guess it is the judgemental part that bothers me.  judge not lest ye be judged.  i probably made this worse.  just ignore me.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Curiosity on June 24, 2005, 09:46:33 AM
I apologize if this has been posted before. But if you haven't seen these CNN videos, check them out:

 http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html

I am referring to the videos in the green "watch" square titled "What it is like to search for the missing girl".....very informative and helpful in understanding the problems in doing the searches.

Also...Recent grads from the US still pack Aruba's clubs.....C&C's shown full of teens drinking....and having problems keeping together when they leave....again helpful in understanding what might have gone wrong.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Just Wondering on June 24, 2005, 09:47:19 AM
Compananzi:
Your story about the girl gone a week, parents come, find her with with an Arubian lover is what is known as an urban myth.
It is a story passed around that re-inforces what people want to believe whether it is base on fear or a desire for something to be true.

The POLICE COMMISSIONER told BH the first day to go wait at C&C and Natalee will show up. That is the result of this type of urban myth.
But there is another side to Aruba. From most posters from Aruba I think they have come to recoginize that there are problems with drugs and prostitution that need to be cleaned up.


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Rob, what do you mean? She's stupid? Naw...she's not stupid. She just wants her life as she knows it to go on. Artists aren't stupid - I is one.


Title: Re: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: "waited_too_long"
Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "lookingood"
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.


no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum


No not manslaughter, abandoment is specifically covered in dutch law (art.255)


Thanks Gerben, that is some great information. I am not sure that the US law has that same category. We would consider it involuntary manslaughter.


I agree, good information. There are pretty rigid guidelines even in the US on when a person must assist. Skiers involved in a collision, driver in an accident... There must be some special relationship betrween the individuals. Simply present when a victim is in respiratory arrest from accidental drug overdose? No.


The trick is this: The law says, and I looked it up, that one can get up to two years in jail of a fine for refusing care for a person in need for wich he was responsable for by law or by contract. This goes up to nine years in jail if that person dies. Luckily I am not a judge for one can say on basis of dutch assaultlaws (mishandeling) that leaving her is assault leading to a death. Six years in prison, if it was premeditated assault, ten years.


Title: Re: v/ sloot senior casino frequenter?
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 09:49:28 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"

Iquitos...I'm sorry but I have to take exception for your comment about "Southern Hypocrisy". I have big news for you there is hypocrisy all over the country and all over the world for that matter. We Southerners DO NOT have the corner on the market.
::back to lurk mode::


Don't be sorry...this isn't the first time Iquitos has posted comments like this.


Thanks Pinemeadows...maybe I'm just sensitive to "Southern" comments. While I grew up in Birmingham and now live in Atlanta, I have spent the last 20 years traveling for business and I am continually amazed at the numbers people across the country who think we still have slaves.
 

sorry i was going to say baptist (maybe red state is better) hypocricy would have been better.  i agree all too many of us play the double standard.  we are a hypocritical society.  i guess it is the judgemental part that bothers me.  judge not lest ye be judged.  i probably made this worse.  just ignore me.


Iquitos...I believe I understand the spirit of what your trying to say. Rather than classify the judgemental part as Southern, Red State or Baptist as many other religons/races/creeds are equally guilty just say something more generalized like humanity or society.

Now that I better understand your point, no offense taken here and thank you for your insights that you post.


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: heavyheart on June 24, 2005, 09:49:36 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Smart enough for finger painting maybe :-)


Title: Rob are you going to Aruba?
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 09:49:52 AM
When are you going? I'd love to get an eyewittness point of view!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 09:49:58 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Iquitos, don 't know what your feeling on gambling is, but I am born and raised in Miss and have traveled extensively.  Yes, we gamble here in Miss.  Some here think it is an awful thing along with consuming alcohol, etc.  I love to gamble and only allow so much money to do this with, however I have witnessed people going there with their welfare checks and I wonder about the poor children left at home with nothing.  This is the root to some of the so called "southern hipocrasy" because the very religious believe gambling is addictive and therefore will destroy the family.  I fear addicts of any sort because they will stop at nothing to fulfill their desire.  I can feel the distaste in your posts for the southern people.  We are very fierce about our families and will defend to the death but on the other hand, we discipline our kids and teach them to do right by others.  I am speaking of the majority of southern people.  We do not want to raise a child everyone hates to see coming.  However, there are bad apples in every community, city, state , or country.  I believe if you come here, you will be treated with respect.  Nat's family are beside themselves and they are doing a great job.  If I was there, I probably would have been arrested by now because I would have not let up on Joran.  I believe as a mother myself, he would have talked to me.


You wouldn't only be treated with respect--you'd be WARMLY WELCOMED by almost everyone. People always think Kentucky is the most backwards place on the planet until they come for Derby and then they see how genteel, welcoming, and fun it is. Southerners are kind and hospitable--you should visit and see for yourself.
 

sorry for my sterotyping.  i know southerners are good people.  i come from old southern stock.  i think gambling is a scourge on the poor and do not think it shoud be used to fund state activities.  it is legalized theft.  but hey, it is a free country.  i don't like it used as part of a demonization campaign.  hey, he gambles, he must be a a slimeball.


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Smart enough for finger painting maybe :-)


Heavyheart, what do think, are they trying to deflect attention off themselves?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Kkial on June 24, 2005, 09:54:50 AM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


*******

Just a comment about evidence and forensics. The VDS house was searched for 4 hours and materials were removed as well as the 2 cars and sent to Holland (i think) for processing last week or so. Perhaps the Aruban LE has the forensics reports back and that coupled with all the stories falling apart is why we are beginning to see some movement on the case.

It's just a thought....


I lurk mostly,,and step away and takes me hr to catch up..
I am thinking and have posted and the Mariott has come up so much, with all the rooms and storage areas...

Could be possibility that Nat was given drugs and had reaction...She was on some kind of meds,,her mom said her medication was in the room..

Also,,could be some sort of ring at the Mariott,,involving just employees or done with the knowledge of the management..using date rape drug,,on unsuspecting and room available ..

Also,,dad had to be called..and Nat was possibly at Joran's apt,,(forensics back now) and dad is involved in the coverup..

All the hotel rooms available would be a possibility and could still be held there with the knowledge of just a few...make a tape?? thinking

Back to lurking,,,,


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mariloo1 on June 24, 2005, 09:55:19 AM
Does anyone think as I do that papa VDS looks more nervous and scared than his son?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: joebob on June 24, 2005, 09:55:26 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
 i think gambling is a scourge on the poor



My opinion is that it is a scourge on people who are bad at math


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Vorpman on June 24, 2005, 09:55:26 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
heck I'm a former lawyer, law students and lawyers can drink as good as anyone else......


And then some...


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 09:56:04 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Rob, what do you mean? She's stupid? Naw...she's not stupid. She just wants her life as she knows it to go on. Artists aren't stupid - I is one.


yeah she not real savvy.. she see the world as she chooses.. not the way it is.. she has a problem with reality...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: gaijin on June 24, 2005, 09:56:36 AM
Man, I just got to say...I love how everybody is getting along this mgn! Somebody says something that is somewhat offensive to another poster - and then they're right up there apologizing and explaining what they really meant.
Not that it means anything coming from me - but I just think its great.
Looks like a good day in the cage and the zoo is back in order.

Back to looking for Natalee.


Title: Re: possible definition of "premeditation?"
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 09:56:43 AM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "waited_too_long"
Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "lookingood"
A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?


No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.


no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum


No not manslaughter, abandoment is specifically covered in dutch law (art.255)


Thanks Gerben, that is some great information. I am not sure that the US law has that same category. We would consider it involuntary manslaughter.


I agree, good information. There are pretty rigid guidelines even in the US on when a person must assist. Skiers involved in a collision, driver in an accident... There must be some special relationship betrween the individuals. Simply present when a victim is in respiratory arrest from accidental drug overdose? No.


The trick is this: The law says, and I looked it up, that one can get up to two years in jail of a fine for refusing care for a person in need for wich he was responsable for by law or by contract. This goes up to nine years in jail if that person dies. Luckily I am not a judge for one can say on basis of dutch assaultlaws (mishandeling) that leaving her is assault leading to a death. Six years in prison, if it was premeditated assault, ten years.
 gerben, you are a treasure.  

what do you think of all this?  this is a giant tv story here.  it is manufacture for a particular audience and fox ratings are very high since they are the most audacious in coverage.  if you listen to npr or read the times you will rarely hear of it, if at all.  i usually live in that world but entered this one as a diversion and became obsessed with the case.  yesterday i went back to my habitual media and there was not a peep on this.  i talked to my brother who follows the press and he had never heard of natalee.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 09:57:39 AM
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Does anyone think as I do that papa VDS looks more nervous and scared than his son?


i did.. bc hescharged with the actual murder, no with a cover up.. he had to know that was coming


Title: Proud to be an Alabamian
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 09:57:59 AM
I am impressed with the Holloways and Twitty's. They truly are remarkable people. I was also impressed with the gentleman who was in Cancun and flew over to help in the search. Notice how they are unselfish and loyal. No one wants any accolades. They are genuinely good people. People I want to be more like. I'm a yankee by birth but you couldn't dynamite me outta here now!


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 09:59:25 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Rob, what do you mean? She's stupid? Naw...she's not stupid. She just wants her life as she knows it to go on. Artists aren't stupid - I is one.


but not stupid enough to do pe or coach?  do i show a bias here?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 09:59:37 AM
is it true the the vds house is boarded up?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 09:59:48 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "mojo"
exactly - i can't see natalie as a target either. and if anyone can bring up a documented story of an american being kidnapped and sold into slavery, i'd be very interested to read it.


Someone mentioned that months ago an American tourist went missing, the parents came to aruba and nothing was found till a week later she showed up, appearently spending time with some Arubian lover... I can't seem to find any info other the post.


thanks, Comananzi - that would be Amy Bradley i think. she worked on a cruise ship that docked in Aruba and she disappeared. the official explanation was that she fell over board, but to my knowledge there has been no trace of her.


No no, Amy is a different story that occured 7 years ago, we really need to start knowing Amy Bradley by now.  Yes the the boat Royal Caribbean Cruiseline did dock in Aruba.  A group of singers/dancer went on board, and some met Amy, even to the point to invite her to CnC.  She declined.  Later 'enroute' to Curacao, she dissapeared...before docking the Parents and brother pleaded to not dock in Curacao, to find her....The stupid idiot Captain refused.  They docked in Curacao and ever since then misc sighthings of Amy Bradley..The reward for his is now at $250,000.  One notable sighthing was the one in a brothel, where she ask an American sailor to help her and her name was Amy Bradley.  She was whisked away by 2 men after that attempt. (phew)...I m going by memory...I think she must be 30 years now.

Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 24, 2005, 10:00:02 AM
Any chance this has some mistaken identity to it.  With the persistant but wrong rumor that her dad is a high ranking goverment official,  could they have thought she was someone else?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 10:00:02 AM
They just mentioned on MSNBC there may be another arrest.  News coming up...

Sheesh...they're talking about Paulas....why do they do that?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:00:55 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Does anyone think as I do that papa VDS looks more nervous and scared than his son?


i did.. bc hescharged with the actual murder, no with a cover up.. he had to know that was coming
 

has he been charged? i though he was heldo on suspicion.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:01:03 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
They just mentioned on MSNBC there may be another arrest.  News coming up...


lorenzo come on down!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 10:01:46 AM
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nutnhoney1974 on June 24, 2005, 10:01:58 AM
Hello, I've been a lurker here for awhile, but this is my first post.  Thanks to all of you who have provided some pretty inciteful posts.  

Please forgive me if this has been addressed earlier, it's difficult to keep up with all the posts.  Regarding the supposed letter from Deepak.  Did anyone happen to catch Greta on Bill O'reilly's show yesterday.  If I recall correctly, O'reilly asked Greta how the Tattoo DJ (Croes) was connected to the investigation.  Greta speculated that Deepak may have sent an e-mail to Croes that may have discussed Deepak's version of events and that may have been the reason Croes was questioned in the first place.  If I'm not mistaken, Greta even confirmed that Deepak's computer was seized by LE.  I thought this was interesting since I seem to recall that someone from this forum forwarded the letter to Greta.  I'm just wondering if Greta did in fact receive that forwarded letter and is now trying to determine if it's credible.  If anyone else happen to see this on O'reilly last night, I'd love to hear your thoughts.   Thanks


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:02:02 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Does anyone think as I do that papa VDS looks more nervous and scared than his son?


i did.. bc hescharged with the actual murder, no with a cover up.. he had to know that was coming
 

has he been charged? i though he was heldo on suspicion.
sorry detained, but the suspision is being involved, not after the fact....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 10:02:06 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
[
Someone mentioned that months ago an American tourist went missing, the parents came to aruba and nothing was found till a week later she showed up, appearently spending time with some Arubian lover... I can't seem to find any info other the post.


thanks, Comananzi - that would be Amy Bradley i think. she worked on a cruise ship that docked in Aruba and she disappeared. the official explanation was that she fell over board, but to my knowledge there has been no trace of her.

Amy Bradley has never been found but I did read that story you are referring to as well.[/quote]

and i totally blew that one, i apologize. two different stories.  :roll:[/quote]

sorry, i did catch it, but this post must have gotten lost - things move so quickly here!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Herkimer on June 24, 2005, 10:02:17 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
They just mentioned on MSNBC there may be another arrest.  News coming up...

Sheesh...they're talking about Paulas....why do they do that?


Lorenzo has left the building


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Kkial on June 24, 2005, 10:02:19 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Any chance this has some mistaken identity to it.  With the persistant but wrong rumor that her dad is a high ranking goverment official,  could they have thought she was someone else?


Marianne Croes said the he was being held on the same charges as the others,,


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 10:02:25 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
They just mentioned on MSNBC there may be another arrest.  News coming up...


lorenzo come on down!


They're talking about Paulas....they always have to recycle news and make it sound like it's brand new!!!


Title: Beth knows...
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 10:02:33 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
They just mentioned on MSNBC there may be another arrest.  News coming up...

Sheesh...they're talking about Paulas....why do they do that?


Wow really BH did prelude us to that fact.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 10:03:14 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
is it true the the vds house is boarded up?


I heard that too, Greta said it yesterday, it's what clued her.

I also noticed on Greta's wire just before they arrested the Father, there were many e-mails saying they didn't trust the father. Coincidence or clues to fans?

I also wondered what Beth meant when she said she expected many more arrests.

There's so much we don't know.

Someone go there and then let us know.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:04:08 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
is it true the the vds house is boarded up?


I heard that too, Greta said it yesterday, it's what clued her.

I also noticed on Greta's wire just before they arrested the Father, there were many e-mails saying they didn't trust the father. Coinceidence or clues to fans?

I also wondered what Beth meant when she said she expected mny more arrests.

There's so much we don't know.

Someone go there and then let us know.


i took it to mean the drug underground culture... i could be wrong....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 10:05:05 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Does anyone think as I do that papa VDS looks more nervous and scared than his son?


i did.. bc hescharged with the actual murder, no with a cover up.. he had to know that was coming
 

has he been charged? i though he was heldo on suspicion.


I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 10:05:57 AM
i took it to mean the drug underground culture... i could be wrong....[/quote]

I said from the beginning, I bet this has something to do with drugs!!!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:06:50 AM
look like this has been a kiddnapping since the beginning...bht made those statements and i believe her....one of two things will happen.. papa starts singing or joran starts singing.. either way this is gonna be resolved.. there is the chance that some of these ppl only know certain aspects of the dissappearnce...hence more arrests...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:07:50 AM
Quote from: "nutnhoney1974"
Hello, I've been a lurker here for awhile, but this is my first post.  Thanks to all of you who have provided some pretty inciteful posts.  

Please forgive me if this has been addressed earlier, it's difficult to keep up with all the posts.  Regarding the supposed letter from Deepak.  Did anyone happen to catch Greta on Bill O'reilly's show yesterday.  If I recall correctly, O'reilly asked Greta how the Tattoo DJ (Croes) was connected to the investigation.  Greta speculated that Deepak may have sent an e-mail to Croes that may have discussed Deepak's version of events and that may have been the reason Croes was questioned in the first place.  If I'm not mistaken, Greta even confirmed that Deepak's computer was seized by LE.  I thought this was interesting since I seem to recall that someone from this forum forwarded the letter to Greta.  I'm just wondering if Greta did in fact receive that forwarded letter and is now trying to determine if it's credible.  If anyone else happen to see this on O'reilly last night, I'd love to hear your thoughts.   Thanks
 good thought.  from listening to his mother's account last night i beleive the deepak email is genuine.  who knows who he copied it to.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 10:07:53 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Yes, that is possible. That's why the police are quite intense, AVS called it even extreme, in their interrogations. A confession is a good thing to start from if you are the prosecutor in this case. However a confession is not needed in court if there is enough evidence that ties the suspect to the crime. No evidence and no confession basically means that you are innocent.
That's why maybe, and I am speculating here, Jorans father advised Joran not to say anything because a 'confession', even if he is innocent is basically enough te get you in jail.
There are failsaves for this in the dutch justicesystem, so any judge in this case will demand more from the prosecution than a confession.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 10:07:58 AM
Yeah, but will they find Natalee?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: la_cavalière on June 24, 2005, 10:08:00 AM
Bonjour Gerben aka Pays Bas... ça va bien?

Is Natalee's disappearance a big story in the Netherlands?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 10:08:36 AM
I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.[/quote]

Iff you saw the lawyer on Larry King last night - PVDS's career is finito if there is any hint that he has had a hand in this - I am not talking enough to charge and try him - just the incarceration on suspicion seems to be a career limiting factor


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:10:41 AM
also i have been wondering about renee, the headless guy.. you have to understand that in aruba, the dutch community is very tight.. the vds are dutch and so is renee.. wondering if this was a hit job, and there could be other charges against some of the ppl in the original investigation...


Title: Re: Proud to be an Alabamian
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I am impressed with the Holloways and Twitty's. They truly are remarkable people. I was also impressed with the gentleman who was in Cancun and flew over to help in the search. Notice how they are unselfish and loyal. No one wants any accolades. They are genuinely good people. People I want to be more like. I'm a yankee by birth but you couldn't dynamite me outta here now!



LOL, My hubby says the same, he WAS a yankee, from Baltimore, now he wouldn't go back....  :lol:  I love it when ppl say that.  :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MiMi on June 24, 2005, 10:10:53 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Bonjour Gerben aka Pays Bas... ça va bien?

Is Natalee's disappearance a big story in the Netherlands?


I have family that arrived yesterday from Holland, they had new clue what is going on in Aruba and any missing persons, much less Natalee


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 10:11:31 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


Iff you saw the lawyer on Larry King last night - PVDS's career is finito if there is any hint that he has had a hand in this - I am not talking enough to charge and try him - just the incarceration on suspicion seems to be a career limiting factor[/quote]

Yes that is common sense though. His face, his sons face, his wifes face  has been splashed all over the media. It would be very hard to escape the fact the media has already found them guilty. I do feel there is some involvement dont get me wrong. But even at this point if it came out the father has nothing to do with it, his career is trashed.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:11:37 AM
Quote from: "kkial"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Any chance this has some mistaken identity to it.  With the persistant but wrong rumor that her dad is a high ranking goverment official,  could they have thought she was someone else?


Marianne Croes said the he was being held on the same charges as the others,,


held on suspicion of the same charges as the others


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:12:10 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Yeah, but will they find Natalee?


i believe so.. the pressure is incrediable.....something has to give,,


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:12:10 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Iquitos, don 't know what your feeling on gambling is, but I am born and raised in Miss and have traveled extensively.  Yes, we gamble here in Miss.  Some here think it is an awful thing along with consuming alcohol, etc.  I love to gamble and only allow so much money to do this with, however I have witnessed people going there with their welfare checks and I wonder about the poor children left at home with nothing.  This is the root to some of the so called "southern hipocrasy" because the very religious believe gambling is addictive and therefore will destroy the family.  I fear addicts of any sort because they will stop at nothing to fulfill their desire.  I can feel the distaste in your posts for the southern people.  We are very fierce about our families and will defend to the death but on the other hand, we discipline our kids and teach them to do right by others.  I am speaking of the majority of southern people.  We do not want to raise a child everyone hates to see coming.  However, there are bad apples in every community, city, state , or country.  I believe if you come here, you will be treated with respect.  Nat's family are beside themselves and they are doing a great job.  If I was there, I probably would have been arrested by now because I would have not let up on Joran.  I believe as a mother myself, he would have talked to me.


You wouldn't only be treated with respect--you'd be WARMLY WELCOMED by almost everyone. People always think Kentucky is the most backwards place on the planet until they come for Derby and then they see how genteel, welcoming, and fun it is. Southerners are kind and hospitable--you should visit and see for yourself.
 

sorry for my sterotyping.  i know southerners are good people.  i come from old southern stock.  i think gambling is a scourge on the poor and do not think it shoud be used to fund state activities.  it is legalized theft.  but hey, it is a free country.  i don't like it used as part of a demonization campaign.  hey, he gambles, he must be a a slimeball.


I agree with you on that; lots of people gamble, and it seems to be what many of the teens do on the island (including the tourists, and the students from Mountain Brook).

I think Joran is a slimeball for many reasons.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 10:12:13 AM
thanks, Gerben. that's what i'm afraid of

as always you are the answer man! :lol:


Title: Re: Proud to be an Alabamian
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 10:12:33 AM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I am impressed with the Holloways and Twitty's. They truly are remarkable people. I was also impressed with the gentleman who was in Cancun and flew over to help in the search. Notice how they are unselfish and loyal. No one wants any accolades. They are genuinely good people. People I want to be more like. I'm a yankee by birth but you couldn't dynamite me outta here now!



LOL, My hubby says the same, he WAS a yankee, from Baltimore, now he wouldn't go back....  :lol:  I love it when ppl say that.  :lol:


I tell my Dad, I'm your smart daughter, the one who moved to the south!!!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 10:13:45 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: westiehouse1 on June 24, 2005, 10:14:00 AM
Hi All....new here but I have been following you for a while and think y'all are great!  Just wanted to throw my theory out there....I think the connection between all those arrested and possibly more that will be...is in the computers that were confiscated.  I think these guys have some sort of sex ring going on......just take a look at  some of the My Space and Tickle websites they have.  Didn't I read somewhere that Juron's were removed?  Possibly by Dad?  This one is the "tell all" to me...especially if you click on his groups...

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=8576252&Mytoken=

Juron has too much freedom in the casinos for a 17 yr old boy and it seems like Dad is okay with it since he is there as well!  Something's going on!!!  Just can't figure out what happened to Natalie or why. I am hoping and praying so hard that she will be found alive.

Thanks so much for letting me put my two cents in and keep up the great work!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Bonjour Gerben aka Pays Bas... ça va bien?

Is Natalee's disappearance a big story in the Netherlands?


ca va. Merci!
No it's not. This is the first time after a frontpage article in De Telegraaf about Joran that a arrest in this case made (small) headlines here. It has mainly to do with Paul van der S. job as a justice offical. This is the first time I know of that a 'judge' , wich he is not, is arrested under suspicion of murder.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "sandy"
I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


Iff you saw the lawyer on Larry King last night - PVDS's career is finito if there is any hint that he has had a hand in this - I am not talking enough to charge and try him - just the incarceration on suspicion seems to be a career limiting factor


Yes that is common sense though. His face, his sons face, his wifes face  has been splashed all over the media. It would be very hard to escape the fact the media has already found them guilty. I do feel there is some involvement dont get me wrong. But even at this point if it came out the father has nothing to do with it, his career is trashed.[/quote]

I thought I heard Marianne Croes say last night that Paul Van Der Sloot,  was being faced with the same exact suspicions/charges as the other four suspects. She strongly implied that if there were charges filed they'd be the same for all five suspects. (At least, that's what I inferred).


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Yeah, but will they find Natalee?


i believe so.. the pressure is incrediable.....something has to give,,


Do you think there's any chance she alive? I really hope so. I didn't until I heard Beth say, she hoped she wasn't hurt, raped, or worse. I get this feeling she knows a lot more than we do. She has this HOPE, even more than a reg Mom would have. What do you think?


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: islandgurl on June 24, 2005, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Rob, what do you mean? She's stupid? Naw...she's not stupid. She just wants her life as she knows it to go on. Artists aren't stupid - I is one.


yeah she not real savvy.. she see the world as she chooses.. not the way it is.. she has a problem with reality...

I think AVDS does just see the world as she cooses but now that her husband has also been arrested maybe a little reality is hitting her. Maybe things are dawning on her that have happened in the past that were suspicious but she ignored them and I mean not just with JVDS but with PVDS.  I think the father has been up to "no good" for a long long time maybe with gambling, other women, drugs (not taking them but making money from them) or whatever else is against the law.

I also doubt the sincerity of Kalpo bros. mother.  She stated she has a shrine for NH and she prays every day for her to be found, which sounds very nice but then she says because if she were found then this all could be over, her sons would be freed and everyone would be cleared and basically every thing would be right with her world again and of course Aruba government and LE officials would be heroes.    By the way was it ever cleared up as to why she could talk with one brother but not the other?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 10:16:27 AM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:

lmao I know ewww someone was just asking for the name. She scares me.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 10:17:21 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
They just mentioned on MSNBC there may be another arrest.  News coming up...


lorenzo come on down!


They're talking about Paulas....they always have to recycle news and make it sound like it's brand new!!!


Oh.. Man I d say if I was in Aruba, do not give any interviews, not because you are guilty but because you can be put in jail for no appearant reason.  

I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  You have 2 major Arubian newpaper that are also giving alot of time and point of view to Greta, Among other Diaro, and Arubatoday.com.  For all those who care, the owner of Diaro Jossy Mansur, also have some shady family dealings.  Especially if he appearantly knows the scoop so to speak.  

Now I know people will say either this reporter is a investigator or previously a prosecutor, for example this Van Der Sloot has something to hide, why even go for an interview? I also fear that the Mother of Kalpoes can be also questioned? Is this Greta 's way of breaking a case?  Why has none of Joran's friend being questioned, offer a fair and balanced reporting?  (even tho If I was Joran friends I d stay away far from Greta)..

 Why does Beth know so much on the number of people still need to be questioned?  Why does she knows Nat  was kidnapped?, and tells us that the 3 have key info to a larger conspiracy?  Was it Jossy who first took the family on a wild goose chase, finding some one who did not even look like Nat?  Remember that story?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Yes, that is possible. That's why the police are quite intense, AVS called it even extreme, in their interrogations. A confession is a good thing to start from if you are the prosecutor in this case. However a confession is not needed in court if there is enough evidence that ties the suspect to the crime. No evidence and no confession basically means that you are innocent.
That's why maybe, and I am speculating here, Jorans father advised Joran not to say anything because a 'confession', even if he is innocent is basically enough te get you in jail.
There are failsaves for this in the dutch justicesystem, so any judge in this case will demand more from the prosecution than a confession.


Gerben:

Where ya been all my life?  LOL

Welcome.

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:18:38 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:

lmao I know ewww someone was just asking for the name. She scares me.


I was genuinely worried about her and I do not feel a bit sorry for the bad press she's getting. She just wanted the attention; I say we stop giving it to her.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ella's Mom on June 24, 2005, 10:18:51 AM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:


Ha ha Diva!!!  That's exactly what she looks like.  Those eyes give me nightmares!!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: air23ac on June 24, 2005, 10:19:33 AM
cherry.......i think it is almost a lock that BHT knows more about natalees disappearance than we do.....she seems too confident that there will be more arrests and i too, picked up on those comments of her hoping she hasn't been raped,beaten or worse............


but it could also just be a testiment to her endless hope and faith also.......


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: golden on June 24, 2005, 10:20:03 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "mojo"
exactly

No no, Amy is a different story that occured 7 years ago, we really need to start knowing Amy Bradley by now.  Yes the the boat Royal Caribbean Cruiseline did dock in Aruba.  A group of singers/dancer went on board, and some met Amy, even to the point to invite her to CnC.  She declined.  Later 'enroute' to Curacao, she dissapeared...before docking the Parents and brother pleaded to not dock in Curacao, to find her....The stupid idiot Captain refused.  They docked in Curacao and ever since then misc sighthings of Amy Bradley..The reward for his is now at $250,000.  One notable sighthing was the one in a brothel, where she ask an American sailor to help her and her name was Amy Bradley.  She was whisked away by 2 men after that attempt. (phew)...I m going by memory...I think she must be 30 years now.

Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.


Are you talking about Brandi Stahr, the college student from Texas that went missing 7yrs ago.  She was discovered working in a Sam's store in Ky.  Using her own name.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: littletxlady on June 24, 2005, 10:20:52 AM
Morning All,still working on my 1st cup of java. Has anyone heard any news from the Texas team?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 10:21:06 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:

lmao I know ewww someone was just asking for the name. She scares me.


You should have seen Jay Leno the other nite, he took snippets from Katie Courics Interview and added in himself to aske her ?'s like

"How long have your eyes been crazy like that", and the camera shows her saying "since birth"


OMG, it was soooo funny!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:21:21 AM
the vd sloots are very lucky this happened in aruba, and not in the US.. the death penalty is exactly for these type of indiviuals...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Mom in Ark on June 24, 2005, 10:22:27 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:

lmao I know ewww someone was just asking for the name. She scares me.


I was genuinely worried about her and I do not feel a bit sorry for the bad press she's getting. She just wanted the attention; I say we stop giving it to her.


I think she prolly has medical problems that are affecting her psychologically.  Just looking at her suggests Graves Disease.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 10:23:22 AM
Quote from: "air23ac"
cherry.......i think it is almost a lock that BHT knows more about natalees disappearance than we do.....she seems too confident that there will be more arrests and i too, picked up on those comments of her hoping she hasn't been raped,beaten or worse............


but it could also just be a testiment to her endless hope and faith also.......

I picked up on it too, but was also thinking as a mother myself I would hope there were more people involved. The reason being that I wouldnt want to lose hope my daughter was alive. If more people are in involved then she could be alive being held captive. So it has made me wonder if it is something she actually knows, or something she is simply hoping to be true. I guess time will tell.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 24, 2005, 10:24:14 AM
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: "westiehouse1"
 This one is the "tell all" to me...especially if you click on his groups...

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=8576252&Mytoken=



Holy carp - it's eldwean! Did he change his name or does he have more than one account?  Cali - recognize his face as the eldwean who left that message to Joran about "you the one that have Natalee hope you're happy" etc.?


Title: no banana on yacht club search
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:24:38 AM
does anybody have anything on this search of a boat at bucuti yacht club.  this is a monkey loose end.   loose ends are a no banana.  

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Curiosity on June 24, 2005, 10:24:44 AM
I just heard a former FBI agent on FOX say that it will be at least a week to ten days more before we know anything solid?????


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:24:56 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


I heard it was Sergio Gomez, if we're thinking of the same one.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: la_cavalière on June 24, 2005, 10:24:56 AM
Did anyone see the beads of sweat rolling down PvdS's forehead during Greta's interview? Do houses have air conditioning in Aruba?  

True, camera lights are very hot... and he would naturally have been nervous, guilty or not. Plus his English isn't nearly as good as Anita's.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: someone on June 24, 2005, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:

lmao I know ewww someone was just asking for the name. She scares me.


You should have seen Jay Leno the other nite, he took snippets from Katie Courics Interview and added in himself to aske her ?'s like

"How long have your eyes been crazy like that", and the camera shows her saying "since birth"


OMG, it was soooo funny!



I legitimately think she has a thyroid problem.  That would cause all her "crazyness" that she kind of hinted to on her Katie Couric interview


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:25:13 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


something like renee hanneman


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Curiosity on June 24, 2005, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Did anyone see the beads of sweat rolling down PvdS's forehead during Greta's interview? Do houses have air conditioning in Aruba?  

True, camera lights are very hot... and he would naturally have been nervous, guilty or not. Plus his English isn't nearly as good as Anita's.


THey said on FOX that his English was very poor because it was his fourth language.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 10:26:45 AM
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 24, 2005, 10:27:50 AM
Investigative reporters have long become involved in situations in order to break open crimes.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: someone on June 24, 2005, 10:28:04 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


something like renee hanneman


I completely missed anything about a new person missing.  Is this different than the guy they found decapitated?  I'm not picking on Aruba, but for a place that publicizes low crime these are awful things that keep happening while Aruba is in the spotlight


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:28:44 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


something like renee hanneman


Rene Van Heyningen was the man who was beheaded.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: joebob on June 24, 2005, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
I just heard a former FBI agent on FOX say that it will be at least a week to ten days more before we know anything solid?????


waiting for lab work?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 24, 2005, 10:28:47 AM
It is the Gomez name.  He has been missing for several days.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Kkial on June 24, 2005, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
Investigative reporters have long become involved in situations in order to break open crimes.


A lot of them are lawyers,,,


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:29:51 AM
i m leaving for aruba tommorrow morn and dont know how long i can stay on.. my house is ramshackled and i still have some packing to do.. but if i find out anything down there i will check in with you guys to confirm anything that might be under the radar screen...

ONLY THE FACTS..


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: bamabelle11 on June 24, 2005, 10:29:57 AM
I think Greta's involvement is great for the case. She is knowledgeable in this area and provides great support for BHT and the family. She is a great journalist because she gets to the bottom and gets the scoop no one else can get. I bet CNN is dying knowing that FOX is getting all this inside info and all they can get is a false report of a confession.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 10:30:23 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


Steve Gomez, if I recall correctly. Definitely last  name Gomez.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:30:50 AM
Quote from: "someone"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


something like renee hanneman


I completely missed anything about a new person missing.  Is this different than the guy they found decapitated?  I'm not picking on Aruba, but for a place that publicizes low crime these are awful things that keep happening while Aruba is in the spotlight

yeah after i said renee hanneman, i remember it was sergio gomes.. but my post did not go through appearntly...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ella's Mom on June 24, 2005, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


I agree, I think it's totally out of line.  Her intrusions could prove detrimental to the case.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:32:10 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "someone"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
What is the name again of the man who is missing?


something like renee hanneman


I completely missed anything about a new person missing.  Is this different than the guy they found decapitated?  I'm not picking on Aruba, but for a place that publicizes low crime these are awful things that keep happening while Aruba is in the spotlight

yeah after i said renee hanneman, i remember it was sergio gomes.. but my post did not go through appearntly...


Sergio Gomez is the one who's missing.

Rene Van Heyningen is the one who was decapitated.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:33:05 AM
ella, i dont think anyone cares about the case at this point.. there is a chance that natalee is still alive and find her is the number one priority...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: la_cavalière on June 24, 2005, 10:33:05 AM
I am amazed that Greta could waltz into Aruba and so easily get interviews with the van der Sloots and with Mrs. Kalpoe, as well as other key people. Greta said they just knocked on Mrs. Kalpoe's door and she seemed eager to talk. And none of these people probably know who she is.

What have the dozens of other journalists been doing in Aruba for the past three weeks, sipping pina coladas on the beach???


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: bamabelle11 on June 24, 2005, 10:33:15 AM
Greta was an attorney I think she knows her boundaries. She's not a typical nosy reporter she is a political analyst and a very smart cookie... shes not tampering with evidence, just giving people the opportunity to talk... shes not chasing them down the road they are voluntarily talking


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: bamabelle11 on June 24, 2005, 10:34:15 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
ella, i dont think anyone cares about the case at this point.. there is a chance that natalee is still alive and find her is the number one priority...


I agree.... main priority is to find natalee, the rest is secondary


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Greta was an attorney I think she knows her boundaries. She's not a typical nosy reporter she is a political analyst and a very smart cookie... shes not tampering with evidence, just giving people the opportunity to talk... shes not chasing them down the road they are voluntarily talking


I think she also has really befriended Beth Holloway Twitty and has a personal interest in the case. I think she really cares about finding the truth.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:35:10 AM
Morning all.. Rob.. are you taking a laptop with you on your trip??


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Greta was an attorney I think she knows her boundaries. She's not a typical nosy reporter she is a political analyst and a very smart cookie... shes not tampering with evidence, just giving people the opportunity to talk... shes not chasing them down the road they are voluntarily talking


I think she also has really befriended Beth Holloway Twitty and has a personal interest in the case. I think she really cares about finding the truth.


no doubt.. this one touched greta...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "momto5"
<<<Anyway, my posting is on another girl that got missing ala bugeye runaway bride Wilkins.  I just wanna know the name so I can do some searching.>>>

Jennifer Wilbanks


Hey! Don't pin Jennifer Wilbanks on us, shes from Georgia! LOL
she looks like this------> :shock:

lmao I know ewww someone was just asking for the name. She scares me.


You should have seen Jay Leno the other nite, he took snippets from Katie Courics Interview and added in himself to aske her ?'s like

"How long have your eyes been crazy like that", and the camera shows her saying "since birth"


OMG, it was soooo funny!

Wish I could have seen it. Leno is on too late for me. Im struggling to stay up to watch greta  :lol:  By 10pm with 5 kids Im lucky to be awake some nights ha ha.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Yes, your point is well taken.  

I don't see anything wrong with this...at least in this situation...if it was a meeting between the kids, that's a different story...however, both families are adults and lawyered-up...and he's a judge!!!  Or, faux judge...whatever!  They must be comfortable with doing all this talking on both sides.  We all know in this country NO lawyer would allow even a smidgeon of talking...guilty or innocent.

So she led Beth Twitty to the Van Der Sloot's home?  Not a big deal, given Beth had already been there.  And her interviews and questions are typical journalistic fare.

I think Greta has done an outstanding job covering this story.  She is one of the few out there or on the Internet that has and continues to give us truthful, factual news.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 10:36:17 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Did anyone see the beads of sweat rolling down PvdS's forehead during Greta's interview? Do houses have air conditioning in Aruba?  

True, camera lights are very hot... and he would naturally have been nervous, guilty or not. Plus his English isn't nearly as good as Anita's.


Most houses do not have central air, bedroom tend to have outside AC, the type that fit in a window.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ella's Mom on June 24, 2005, 10:36:37 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
ella, i dont think anyone cares about the case at this point.. there is a chance that natalee is still alive and find her is the number one priority...


Rob, I agree that finding Natalee is most important.  But, whether they find Natalee or not (which I hope they do...and alive), there will still be a case and I would hope that it isn't compromised because of reporters crossing the line.

P.S. Have a safe trip!!!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:37:55 AM
Quote from: "Ella's Mom"
Quote from: "Rob"
ella, i dont think anyone cares about the case at this point.. there is a chance that natalee is still alive and find her is the number one priority...


Rob, I agree that finding Natalee is most important.  But, whether they find Natalee or not (which I hope they do...and alive), there will still be a case and I would hope that it isn't compromised because of reporters crossing the line.

P.S. Have a safe trip!!!


alot has been done already to compromise this case.. i could care less at this point.. but thanx for sayin have a nice trip...it s hard too get excited....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: joebob on June 24, 2005, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Rob.. are you taking a laptop with you on your trip??


Are you going to the smelly pond?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tkubi7 on June 24, 2005, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "nutnhoney1974"
Hello, I've been a lurker here for awhile, but this is my first post.  Thanks to all of you who have provided some pretty inciteful posts.  

Please forgive me if this has been addressed earlier, it's difficult to keep up with all the posts.  Regarding the supposed letter from Deepak.  Did anyone happen to catch Greta on Bill O'reilly's show yesterday.  If I recall correctly, O'reilly asked Greta how the Tattoo DJ (Croes) was connected to the investigation.  Greta speculated that Deepak may have sent an e-mail to Croes that may have discussed Deepak's version of events and that may have been the reason Croes was questioned in the first place.  If I'm not mistaken, Greta even confirmed that Deepak's computer was seized by LE.  I thought this was interesting since I seem to recall that someone from this forum forwarded the letter to Greta.  I'm just wondering if Greta did in fact receive that forwarded letter and is now trying to determine if it's credible.  If anyone else happen to see this on O'reilly last night, I'd love to hear your thoughts.   Thanks
 good thought.  from listening to his mother's account last night i beleive the deepak email is genuine.  who knows who he copied it to.



I believe the email was addressed to a woman named Betty, then the name was edited out


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Mom in Ark on June 24, 2005, 10:38:25 AM
Has anyone heard how daddy VDS did in his first round of interrogation?


Title: background
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:38:34 AM
background on natalee and family posted last night

http://www.clintonnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050616/NEWS/506160357/1001


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:39:40 AM
Quote from: "Mom in Ark"
Has anyone heard how daddy VDS did in his first round of interrogation?


prolly a TKO....hes not real tight lipped... i ve seen


Title: Re: no banana on yacht club search
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 10:41:33 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
does anybody have anything on this search of a boat at bucuti yacht club.  this is a monkey loose end.   loose ends are a no banana.  

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg

Do you know the date of this article?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:42:06 AM
Quote from: "joebob"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Rob.. are you taking a laptop with you on your trip??


Are you going to the smelly pond?

going to the abandoned town near KIA. this the second time i posted this.. some stuff is not going through


Title: greta chases ambulances
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:42:07 AM
greta was in her previous life as an attorney and remains an ambulance chaser


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Daniel on June 24, 2005, 10:42:21 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
I am amazed that Greta could waltz into Aruba and so easily get interviews with the van der Sloots and with Mrs. Kalpoe, as well as other key people. Greta said they just knocked on Mrs. Kalpoe's door and she seemed eager to talk. And none of these people probably know who she is.
That's because contrary to the US, Holland and Aruba are not yet run by lawyers and journalists. In that respect they still have a 50's kind of innocence and naivitee.

Quote
What have the dozens of other journalists been doing in Aruba for the past three weeks, sipping pina coladas on the beach???
They probably didn't even consider the possibility of simply walking up someone's door.


Title: Re: no banana on yacht club search
Post by: clevfan1234 on June 24, 2005, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "iquitos"
does anybody have anything on this search of a boat at bucuti yacht club.  this is a monkey loose end.   loose ends are a no banana.  

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg

Do you know the date of this article?


The date would be June 14


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
I am amazed that Greta could waltz into Aruba and so easily get interviews with the van der Sloots and with Mrs. Kalpoe, as well as other key people. Greta said they just knocked on Mrs. Kalpoe's door and she seemed eager to talk. And none of these people probably know who she is.

What have the dozens of other journalists been doing in Aruba for the past three weeks, sipping pina coladas on the beach???


maybe the Arubans will talk to Greta because she is "Van Susteren"

or perhaps Greta's reputation of being an honest and fair journalist not a sleaze bucket like some we can mention preceded her.....

I think the Van Der Sloots agreed to the further interview because the meeting with Beth Holloway in fact engendered them a lot of sympathy, in the US and in Aruba


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Mom in Ark on June 24, 2005, 10:43:27 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "joebob"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Rob.. are you taking a laptop with you on your trip??


Are you going to the smelly pond?

going to the abandoned town near KIA. this the second time i posted this.. some stuff is not going through


Good Luck!!!  I hope you find her!!!


Title: Re: Joran's Mother is indignant and insincere
Post by: heavyheart on June 24, 2005, 10:43:27 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Smart enough for finger painting maybe :-)


Heavyheart, what do think, are they trying to deflect attention off themselves?


This is my first theory/analysis post so go easy on me.

I think Natalee befriended Joran sometime during her stay on the island.  Who knows for sure when the met?  That day a couple days before, does it matter?  She is a trusting albeit a bit naïve young girl, but who wasn’t at 18?  She wants to see more of the island on her last night so she goes with him.  Knowing how 100 pound 5’4” women hold their liquor, she probably drank more than she realized and it hadn’t hit yet by the time she got in the car.  Did Joran put something in one of those last drinks?  It’s entirely possible but we don’t have any proof of that, yet.  

They leave and head for the lighthouse; sometime thereafter she is starting to feel the real affects of the liquor and wants to go home.  The brothers drop Natalee and Joran off at the beach, where Joran hopes he is going to seal the deal but it is a no go.  Natalee is way to far gone for any fun at this point.  

On another note…who the hell drives around their friend so he can try to score?  I’m all for the wingman operation but once they meet the girl, you have to cut them lose, at which point they are on their own.  

Back to the analysis…I don’t believe that Joran is a cold blooded killer, few 17 year olds are.  Those who are usually display many more problems then Joran seemed to have.  This is where total speculation begins…sometime while sitting/laying/whatever on the beach Natalee passes away.  From what, something slipped into her drink or, just too much to drink?  This happens every year at colleges across the country.  

What did Joran do at that point?  An innocent person would have called for help, not for daddy.  An innocent person would not have made up a story for others to follow.  I believe he called father Sloot to help him out of his mess.  PVDS then saw his and his son’s life going down the tubes and made a bad judgment decision.  Joran is definitely guilty of something, be it bad judgment or murder.  

The fact that the police have arrested father Sloot and the Croes characters is troubling and leads me to believe that something more sinister has taken place than a kid panicking because his date just passed out.  I can only hope that Croes was arrested because he lied to the police.  This may just be my own wishful thinking but I hate to think he or anyone else had anything to do with her death.

Going forward…I think the father will break in much less time than Joran.  At 17 you’re invincible, nothing can hurt you.  At 53, you have a lot more to lose and life has taught you, you’re anything but invincible.  

Only a few know exactly what happened that night.  

I can only pray everything I have said here is wrong and she is alive somewhere.  I have to admit I’m holding out some hope.  I can’t help but watch BHT and believe she knows something more than I/we do, that her mother’s intuition is correct.  I also hope that the police know a lot more than we do.


Title: Re: no banana on yacht club search
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:43:33 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "iquitos"
does anybody have anything on this search of a boat at bucuti yacht club.  this is a monkey loose end.   loose ends are a no banana.  

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg

Do you know the date of this article?


do not, been around a while, from early in the case  some link it to lorenzo


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 10:44:06 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Someone just mentioned Greta's possible personal involvement and friendship with Beth Twitty.  If that happens in a big way, it can prevent Greta from covering this story in a fair manner.  I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe she's done that so far.  Greta is a professional, through and through.  Unlike Geraldo who gushes with anyone he's interviewing.  What a knucklehead. She's interviewed all four of the suspect's families to give us an idea of their character,etc.

She's been top rate.


Title: Sleeping with the devils
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Yes, your point is well taken.  

I don't see anything wrong with this...at least in this situation...if it was a meeting between the kids, that's a different story...however, both families are adults and lawyered-up...and he's a judge!!!  Or, faux judge...whatever!  They must be comfortable with doing all this talking on both sides.  We all know in this country NO lawyer would allow even a smidgeon of talking...guilty or innocent.

So she led Beth Twitty to the Van Der Sloot's home?  Not a big deal, given Beth had already been there.  And her interviews and questions are typical journalistic fare.

I think Greta has done an outstanding job covering this story.  She is one of the few out there or on the Internet that has and continues to give us truthful, factual news.


No problem with breaking the news but what agenda is being pushed?  The Mansur family is know for money laudering and smuggling.  If Greta is unaware of this, from her FBI informants then .. well I guess one story before the other...

http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=355&sid=100


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Someone just mentioned Greta's possible personal involvement and friendship with Beth Twitty.  If that happens in a big way, it can prevent Greta from covering this story in a fair manner.  I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe she's done that so far.  Greta is a professional, through and through.  Unlike Geraldo who gushes with anyone he's interviewing.  What a knucklehead. She's interviewed all four of the suspect's families to give us an idea of their character,etc.

She's been top rate.


and whoerldo, almost got a shit load of marines killes by tell everyone their coordinates... WHAT A JACKAZZ!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 10:47:54 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Yes, that is possible. That's why the police are quite intense, AVS called it even extreme, in their interrogations. A confession is a good thing to start from if you are the prosecutor in this case. However a confession is not needed in court if there is enough evidence that ties the suspect to the crime. No evidence and no confession basically means that you are innocent.
That's why maybe, and I am speculating here, Jorans father advised Joran not to say anything because a 'confession', even if he is innocent is basically enough te get you in jail.
There are failsaves for this in the dutch justicesystem, so any judge in this case will demand more from the prosecution than a confession.


Gerben:

Where ya been all my life?  LOL

Welcome.

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


I've been here since june 17th and much earlier on the blog of Tom and Red. I have no lawdegree, I know parts of it because we need to have some basic knowledge in our proffesion. I have still hope that someone with a lawdegree in dutch criminal law will correct my answers, but no one has come up sofar.
About your question, thats why the JD not only accuses the suspects of murder, but also of manslaughter (doodslag) and death by kidnapping (ontvoering). That is, when this case goes to court they can choose ,if you will, how to indict the suspects based on the evidence they have gathered.

/edited for spelling


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: heavyheart on June 24, 2005, 10:48:22 AM
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Yeah, but will they find Natalee?


We can only pray they will.


Title: Re: CD's
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:51:07 AM
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 :o  :o  :o  :roll:


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.

The moms stated they were music lol I just found it odd but everything is odd!!

Which leads me to my next weirdness outbreak...

::ducking:: I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


In all common sense, I would think that once a person has been missing a certain length of time, the insurance would cover as if the missing person was deceased. But hell, I am just speculating. Who know's what the hell these insurance companys cover anymore, or should i say DON'T COVER?
Edit to add...
I think there has to be a body to for any insurance claim
Not sure if this type of insurance is ligit cali
 

FYI mr holloway is an insurance agent  j


Title: Re: background
Post by: Yellow Ribbon on June 24, 2005, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
background on natalee and family posted last night

http://www.clintonnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050616/NEWS/506160357/1001


Iquitos,

What a great article. Thanks for posting it. Everybody here should read this.


Title: Re: background
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:52:42 AM
Quote from: "Yellow Ribbon"
Quote from: "iquitos"
background on natalee and family posted last night

http://www.clintonnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050616/NEWS/506160357/1001


Iquitos,

What a great article. Thanks for posting it. Everybody here should read this.


I know--it really gives an insight into Natalee's personality. She sounds like such an adorable girl. Thanks for posting!


Title: Re: Sleeping with the devils
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Yes, your point is well taken.  

I don't see anything wrong with this...at least in this situation...if it was a meeting between the kids, that's a different story...however, both families are adults and lawyered-up...and he's a judge!!!  Or, faux judge...whatever!  They must be comfortable with doing all this talking on both sides.  We all know in this country NO lawyer would allow even a smidgeon of talking...guilty or innocent.

So she led Beth Twitty to the Van Der Sloot's home?  Not a big deal, given Beth had already been there.  And her interviews and questions are typical journalistic fare.

I think Greta has done an outstanding job covering this story.  She is one of the few out there or on the Internet that has and continues to give us truthful, factual news.


No problem with breaking the news but what agenda is being pushed?  The Mansur family is know for money laudering and smuggling.  If Greta is unaware of this, from her FBI informants then .. well I guess one story before the other...

http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=355&sid=100


maybe mansur is a fellow scientologist?  sorry for posting this


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 10:56:36 AM
thanks for posting that Compananzi - that's why local knowledge cannot be underestimated.  i find it hard to believe that if there was a history on any of these suspects that it would have remained under the radar on a place as small as Aruba.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 10:57:31 AM
iquitos you are too much - i forgot ole greta was one of ron's.  :lol:


Title: Expat
Post by: Twelve Monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:57:55 AM
From Caribbean Girl on Riehl World Message board.


I live in the Caribbean as an Expat. The van der Sloots are Expats living in Aruba. The attitude of people coming from mainland countries to island nations to live is the key here. Why do they leave family and friends behind to move so far away? Well the obvious is the weather but there is more to the story. There is opportunity for mediocre people to make something of themselves. Expats also tend to have an arrogance about them, a false sense of superiority. They view themselves as the "smart, sophiticated" people coming from the big country to help the poor stupid island people.

The comment Anita VDS made about Paul giving 15 years of service to the island yada yada yada.... I have heard that beofre from Expats who think their (you know what) doesn't stink. They act like they have scaified so much to to come there and help the "poor" people of the island when in fact they have have no sense of altrsism at all they have only been their to line their pockets. More than likely PVDS would never have been able to reach the professional level he has in Aruba back home in Holland. If you compare his abilities to the main stream back home he wouldn't measure up. But in the Caribbean he feel he is a big shot. That is why their son, raised as an Expat, has the arrogant attitude that he does.

Now all that said when trouble occured their "superior" attitude made them belive they could just cover up the mess and use their "influence" to pressure the locals, which is what was happening the first week. They throught the stupid locals would never figure it out.

I am sure since Anita was away, Paul was having himself some fun and went out with Joran. Expat men are notorious for running around and boozing while their wives go on the long trips back home to visit family or on on shopping trips to the USA (can't buy that much on a small island and the US isn't that far away).

I live this life so I know. I recognize it for what it is. I hope they pay for all their sins which are many, and may the Aruban people rid themselves of this vermen. Other Expats be on notice that you ned to change your attitude.

Posted by: caribbean girl | June 24, 2005 09:06 AM


Title: Natalee's Mom
Post by: Just Wunderin' on June 24, 2005, 10:58:31 AM
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 11:01:12 AM
I saw the CNN story yesterday on ScaredMonkeys. The two reporters seemed so genuinely excited about this blog that I am positive they are monkeys too, probably here all day and night, except when CNN cuts to them for reporting. At that point, I think they just minimize their SM page, talk about something else, then when the cameras cut away to something else, they bring SM back up and then both women begin frantically reading pages of SM posts to catch up. LOL
No matter where you are or what your occupation, all monkeys are hooked, and lovingly face the same challenges. Thank God for Scared Monkeys.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Suspect was in pushing match
Man had scuffle with some of Holloway's friends
By DANIEL JACKSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

"There was almost a fight between my friend and him," said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. "I had to break them up. That's when I got a good look at them."
 

this is from evening reading  ... and there is an interview at a fund raising barbecue where a kid named beau tells how he broke it up.  this needs to go in the timeline, paused outside bar to have a scuffle with natalees friend before leaving with natalee.   then deepak said they stopped them on the road and natalee said she wanted to proceed with them instead of joining her mb friends aruba yahoo!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 11:02:35 AM
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I saw the CNN story yesterday on ScaredMonkeys. The two reporters seemed so genuinely excited about this blog that I am positive they are monkeys too, probably here all day and night, except when CNN cuts to them for reporting. At that point, I think they just minimize their SM page, talk about something else, then when the cameras cut away to something else, they bring SM back up and then both women begin frantically reading pages of SM posts to catch up. LOL
No matter where you are or what your occupation, all monkeys are hooked, and lovingly face the same challenges. Thank God for Scared Monkeys.


Haha--you're probably right! Love the avatar, by the way!


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: wwizard on June 24, 2005, 11:06:06 AM
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


I am from the south also and I agree with you. Some won't want to hear it though. The truth can sting.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 11:06:32 AM
Anybody know what time the TX group is arriving?  Earlier, or very late last night, there was discussion about them going to the VDS property to check out that "smelly pond".  

It sure seems like the police should have done that by now....and if they haven't, I'm pretty sure the TX group is not going to be allowed on private property.

What time is it in Aruba??


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: someone on June 24, 2005, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).   They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.


Mrs. Twitty's community has shown consistent sincere support and commitment to finding Natalee.  They are doing constant fund raisers, making bracelets, prayer services.  Mrs. Twitty is well-respected in the community, especially after the strength and perseverence she has shown to find her daughter.  She is not concerned about what people are saying about her...regardless, it is all benevolent.

Also, Natalee excelled on her own.  Her parents have been very laid back and never forced her to do anything or guilted her into good grades/honors.  They are not extremely anal parents that would have caused their daughter to "swim away"...which is a pretty odd, albeit original, theory


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Anybody know what time the TX group is arriving?  Earlier, or very late last night, there was discussion about them going to the VDS property to check out that "smelly pond".  

It sure seems like the police should have done that by now....and if they haven't, I'm pretty sure the TX group is not going to be allowed on private property.

What time is it in Aruba??

Aruba time = Eastern time, so it's a little after 11:00am.


Title: Re: greta chases ambulances
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:09:18 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
greta was in her previous life as an attorney and remains an ambulance chaser


Iquitos:

That's rather harsh.  I have no information she was an "ambulance chaser"?  Can you give us a reference to that?  Was she a personal injury attorney?  I think it's great to debate the issues, the stories, etc. But, making a suggestion like this, if it's not true is way below the belt!

I sense quite a bit of jealousy of Greta with bloggers covering this case. Not sure why?  Each has their place in this story.  I praise her work...it's been factual, fair and gutsy.  IMO that depicts the best in journalism.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 11:10:18 AM
Quote from: "BlueKyGirl"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I saw the CNN story yesterday on ScaredMonkeys. The two reporters seemed so genuinely excited about this blog that I am positive they are monkeys too, probably here all day and night, except when CNN cuts to them for reporting. At that point, I think they just minimize their SM page, talk about something else, then when the cameras cut away to something else, they bring SM back up and then both women begin frantically reading pages of SM posts to catch up. LOL
No matter where you are or what your occupation, all monkeys are hooked, and lovingly face the same challenges. Thank God for Scared Monkeys.


Haha--you're probably right! Love the avatar, by the way!


Thanks, BlueKyGirl; Can't you just see them reading and mouths open right now saying. Oooooh, look, they know we're here too! );


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 11:10:47 AM
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! The Zoo Keeper}}}


Title: Re: Expat
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 11:12:49 AM
Quote from: "Twelve Monkeys"
From Caribbean Girl on Riehl World Message board.


I live in the Caribbean as an Expat. The van der Sloots are Expats living in Aruba. The attitude of people coming from mainland countries to island nations to live is the key here. Why do they leave family and friends behind to move so far away? Well the obvious is the weather but there is more to the story. There is opportunity for mediocre people to make something of themselves. Expats also tend to have an arrogance about them, a false sense of superiority. They view themselves as the "smart, sophiticated" people coming from the big country to help the poor stupid island people.

The comment Anita VDS made about Paul giving 15 years of service to the island yada yada yada.... I have heard that beofre from Expats who think their (you know what) doesn't stink. They act like they have scaified so much to to come there and help the "poor" people of the island when in fact they have have no sense of altrsism at all they have only been their to line their pockets. More than likely PVDS would never have been able to reach the professional level he has in Aruba back home in Holland. If you compare his abilities to the main stream back home he wouldn't measure up. But in the Caribbean he feel he is a big shot. That is why their son, raised as an Expat, has the arrogant attitude that he does.

Now all that said when trouble occured their "superior" attitude made them belive they could just cover up the mess and use their "influence" to pressure the locals, which is what was happening the first week. They throught the stupid locals would never figure it out.

I am sure since Anita was away, Paul was having himself some fun and went out with Joran. Expat men are notorious for running around and boozing while their wives go on the long trips back home to visit family or on on shopping trips to the USA (can't buy that much on a small island and the US isn't that far away).

I live this life so I know. I recognize it for what it is. I hope they pay for all their sins which are many, and may the Aruban people rid themselves of this vermen. Other Expats be on notice that you ned to change your attitude.

Posted by: caribbean girl | June 24, 2005 09:06 AM
 

twelve monkeys.  thanks for that.  i too have lived the expatirate life as a mediocre petty bureaucrat (did not realize it at the time) and can identify with some of the poster's observations.  i think paul is probably a petty bureaucrat who may not have been competitive in the metropole.  but they did make their life in aruba and they were probalby too old to go home and start over what with young kids to support. i don't know that they were arrogant.  it is possible, but i imagine more that one aruban is revelling in their predicament. it is such a caricature.  sweating, deer in the headlight dutchies caught up in the same system they have perpetuated beyond its natural life.  they have been running the place since 1623.  tune in to 95.1 the news is on.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tkubi7 on June 24, 2005, 11:13:01 AM
Just wonderin..let me see if I understand your theory. 1) Natalee got drunk and did drugs
2) natalee had sex with 1-3 of the boys
3) natalee took a swim (in her skirt and blouse)
4) Natalee was so distraught over her non southern behaior that she just kept swimming to avoid bringing shame on herself and her mother

OOOOKAAAAY. Sounds like every teenager I ever knew...not


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: islandgurl on June 24, 2005, 11:13:34 AM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Anybody know what time the TX group is arriving?  Earlier, or very late last night, there was discussion about them going to the VDS property to check out that "smelly pond".  

It sure seems like the police should have done that by now....and if they haven't, I'm pretty sure the TX group is not going to be allowed on private property.

What time is it in Aruba??


If  this pond is on VDS property then I would hope it had already been searched.  This group from texas has cadaver dogs and sonar etc and that is great I'm hoping they can do better than the Police have.  Wouldn't the FBI have access to these tools (and more)?  This makes me think the Aruba LE isn't letting the FBI do as much as they could.


Title: Re: Greta Doesn't Chase Ambulances
Post by: Twelve Monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "iquitos"
greta was in her previous life as an attorney and remains an ambulance chaser


Iquitos:

That's rather harsh.  I have no information she was an "ambulance chaser"?  Can you give us a reference to that?  Was she a personal injury attorney?  I think it's great to debate the issues, the stories, etc. But, making a suggestion like this, if it's not true is way below the belt!

I sense quite a bit of jealousy of Greta with bloggers covering this case. Not sure why?  Each has their place in this story.  I praise her work...it's been factual, fair and gutsy.  IMO that depicts the best in journalism.


Greta made her mark like a lot of the media attorneys while covering the O.J. Simpson case. In Greta's case the cream rises to the top and here she is.


Title: Re: greta chases ambulances
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 11:15:20 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "iquitos"
greta was in her previous life as an attorney and remains an ambulance chaser


Iquitos:

That's rather harsh.  I have no information she was an "ambulance chaser"?  Can you give us a reference to that?  Was she a personal injury attorney?  I think it's great to debate the issues, the stories, etc. But, making a suggestion like this, if it's not true is way below the belt!

I sense quite a bit of jealousy of Greta with bloggers covering this case. Not sure why?  Each has their place in this story.  I praise her work...it's been factual, fair and gutsy.  IMO that depicts the best in journalism.


No jealousy here - actually i considered her handling of the OJ trial one of the highlights of my viewing history - when she moved to FOX I was truly disappointed because I do not have access to FOX - I think she is doing an incredible job in this instance but I have to remark on what a fine line she is treading between journalism, lawyering, etc. - a fine line - when all is said and done - only she is agile enough to navigate.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Yes, that is possible. That's why the police are quite intense, AVS called it even extreme, in their interrogations. A confession is a good thing to start from if you are the prosecutor in this case. However a confession is not needed in court if there is enough evidence that ties the suspect to the crime. No evidence and no confession basically means that you are innocent.
That's why maybe, and I am speculating here, Jorans father advised Joran not to say anything because a 'confession', even if he is innocent is basically enough te get you in jail.
There are failsaves for this in the dutch justicesystem, so any judge in this case will demand more from the prosecution than a confession.


Gerben:

Where ya been all my life?  LOL

Welcome.

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


I've been here since june 17th and much earlier on the blog of Tom and Red. I have no lawdegree, I know some because we need to study them in school. I have still hope that someone with a lawdegree in dutch criminal law will correct my answers, but noone has come up sofar.
About your question, thats why the JD not only accuses the suspects of murder, but also of manslaughter (doodslag) and death by kidnapping (ontvoering). That is, when this case goes to court they can choose ,if you will, how to indict the suspects based on the evidence they have gathered.

/edited for spelling


I'll have to go back and find Red's post from last night....I may have read it wrong it was sooooo  late and I was so tired.  But, from what I recall he heard an Aruban official refer to the suspected charges as "premeditated murder" which was somewhat shocking to Red.  Maybe someone explained it in earlier posts...but, it has been nagging at me since.

Glad you stopped by.  Now go find a Dutch lawyer to visit us as well.  LOL


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 11:15:38 AM
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(

Interesting theory however I dont find it very likely at all. If she "swam away" then why hasnt her body been found. Someone took great steps to insure she hasnt been found dead or alive as of yet. Youre suggesting she killed herself because she had done shameful acts basically. As a mother of teenagers myself, I know kids arent always angels, however your missing some basic points in this theory. First she was off to college soon which means if she felt stifled or pushed in a few weeks she would be on her own basically. Second any acts she would percieve as shameful would have been left on the island. Sorry I dont buy it.


Title: Re: Expat
Post by: Cherry6905 on June 24, 2005, 11:15:47 AM
Quote from: "Twelve Monkeys"
From Caribbean Girl on Riehl World Message board.


I live in the Caribbean as an Expat. The van der Sloots are Expats living in Aruba. The attitude of people coming from mainland countries to island nations to live is the key here. Why do they leave family and friends behind to move so far away? Well the obvious is the weather but there is more to the story. There is opportunity for mediocre people to make something of themselves. Expats also tend to have an arrogance about them, a false sense of superiority. They view themselves as the "smart, sophiticated" people coming from the big country to help the poor stupid island people.

The comment Anita VDS made about Paul giving 15 years of service to the island yada yada yada.... I have heard that beofre from Expats who think their (you know what) doesn't stink. They act like they have scaified so much to to come there and help the "poor" people of the island when in fact they have have no sense of altrsism at all they have only been their to line their pockets. More than likely PVDS would never have been able to reach the professional level he has in Aruba back home in Holland. If you compare his abilities to the main stream back home he wouldn't measure up. But in the Caribbean he feel he is a big shot. That is why their son, raised as an Expat, has the arrogant attitude that he does.

Now all that said when trouble occured their "superior" attitude made them belive they could just cover up the mess and use their "influence" to pressure the locals, which is what was happening the first week. They throught the stupid locals would never figure it out.

I am sure since Anita was away, Paul was having himself some fun and went out with Joran. Expat men are notorious for running around and boozing while their wives go on the long trips back home to visit family or on on shopping trips to the USA (can't buy that much on a small island and the US isn't that far away).

I live this life so I know. I recognize it for what it is. I hope they pay for all their sins which are many, and may the Aruban people rid themselves of this vermen. Other Expats be on notice that you ned to change your attitude.

Posted by: caribbean girl | June 24, 2005 09:06 AM


This rings soooo true!!!


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! }}}


just wonderin is one perceptive monkey.


Title: Re: greta chases ambulances
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 11:18:13 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew
Iquitos:That's rather harsh.  I have no information she was an "ambulance chaser"?  Can you give us a reference to that?  Was she a personal injury attorney?  I think it's great to debate the issues, the stories, etc. But, making a suggestion like this, if it's not true is way below the belt! I sense quite a bit of jealousy of Greta with bloggers covering this case. Not sure why?  Each has their place in this story.  I praise her work...it's been factual, fair and gutsy.  IMO that depicts the best in journalism.[/quote


Nancy, Iquitos got up on the wrong side of the bed today or something...so far, there've been comments about Southern hypocrites, Greta being an ambulance chaser, and a snide comment about Scientology.  Just a few attacks on a lot of people in this forum.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Ella's Mom on June 24, 2005, 11:18:13 AM
I accidently posted this as its own topic, but meant to post here.  Just wanted to know what any of you thought.


This may have been brought up before and if so I apologize. But does anyone think that maybe Daddy VDS is way more involved in this and Joran is being so "wishy washy" to protect his Dad and not necessasarily himself?

Maybe Joran brought her home and Dad did something!!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
Just wonderin..let me see if I understand your theory. 1) Natalee got drunk and did drugs
2) natalee had sex with 1-3 of the boys
3) natalee took a swim (in her skirt and blouse)
4) Natalee was so distraught over her non southern behaior that she just kept swimming to avoid bringing shame on herself and her mother

OOOOKAAAAY. Sounds like every teenager I ever knew...not


Yeah...I pretty much thought was a bunch of crap too. I will admit there was nuggets of truth in it, but if you've been around and looked at the history of NH's behaviour you would get the feeling that she was not that type of girl. I mean think about it, she has a life, why would she jeopardize that.

Leads me back to what I have always thought about this matter, NH leaving the club with Tres Amigo's. It's just not right and does not make sense. Rob posted earlier he felt it was a kidnapping and I do too. I think there may have been a false sense of trust on NH's part to some degree, but in the crush/confusion of leaving the bar they got NH in the car and by then the whatever drugs/alcohol took effect and she did not even know what was happening to her.

Call me crazy...I may be...but it's my thoughts...


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: Curiosity on June 24, 2005, 11:20:00 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


just shut up!   {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! The Zoo Keeper}}}


I have considered the "swim" theory too. I'm thinking along the idea of a fight with joren, and swimming away is the escape route.  But drowning instead of reaching a destination would depend on several factors: how far to reach water that is perilous with rip tides or currents, stinging sealife like jellyfish etd, inability to swim due to alcohol or slipped drugs, exhaustion due to the hour of the night.....and the list goes on. I know that in FL it can be perilous to go out too far if you aren't an expereinced swimmer on the Atlantic side. Get into a rip tide and you could be in big trouble if you don't know how to deal with it.  The CNN video suggested that a body on that side of the island would end up in Panama eventually...not back on the shore. Of course if this were the scenario.....the boys wouldn't have to lie about it would they? Such a scenario would suggest just telling the truth instead of all these cover-ups..So it's probably not what happened.


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! }}}


I don't think Beth Twitty has ever fully made comment on what her daughter did or didn't do. Her focus and energy is on finding her daughter!   From all reports we have so far Natalee's character was great. And who cares?  She's the victim? She's missing.  Three kids who were the last to see her alive,  LIED THROUGH THEIR TEETH...and are changing their stories regularly!  I'll say it again, give me facts that these are the wrong suspects, that Natalee's lifestyle, her friends, or family have anything to do with this...AND I'LL GO THERE IMMEDIATELY!!!   I'm a parent of four...and my belief is NO parent really knows what their kid is doing all the time.  Parents aren't supossed to know...there is a generation gap.  But, Natalee's circle are not suspects. There is NO reason they should be.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: islandgurl on June 24, 2005, 11:22:17 AM
Quote from: "Ella's Mom"
I accidently posted this as its own topic, but meant to post here.  Just wanted to know what any of you thought.


This may have been brought up before and if so I apologize. But does anyone think that maybe Daddy VDS is way more involved in this and Joran is being so "wishy washy" to protect his Dad and not necessasarily himself?

Maybe Joran brought her home and Dad did something!!
 

I think that is quite possible.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 11:22:40 AM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Yes, that is possible. That's why the police are quite intense, AVS called it even extreme, in their interrogations. A confession is a good thing to start from if you are the prosecutor in this case. However a confession is not needed in court if there is enough evidence that ties the suspect to the crime. No evidence and no confession basically means that you are innocent.
That's why maybe, and I am speculating here, Jorans father advised Joran not to say anything because a 'confession', even if he is innocent is basically enough te get you in jail.
There are failsaves for this in the dutch justicesystem, so any judge in this case will demand more from the prosecution than a confession.


Are you saying, for all intents and purposes, that it is impossible to get a conviction based strictly on circumstantial evidence?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wvlady on June 24, 2005, 11:23:02 AM
has anyone heard from Dash recently?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: "wvlady"
has anyone heard from Dash recently?

She has not posted since 6/20.


Title: MONKEY TAKE
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 11:26:09 AM
DELETED


Title: Equusearch
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 11:26:42 AM
Miller is the director of TE and is on Fox news now.


Title: MONKEY TAKE
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 11:27:02 AM
Quote from: "Whitney"
(http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/carlosncharliesimsex.JPG)

from http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html#000814

an excellent article and oh yes, Look at those (not scared IMO)Monkeys
 more from the early am monkey take


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 11:27:04 AM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?

Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol


Title: Re: greta chases ambulances
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:28:20 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "iquitos"
greta was in her previous life as an attorney and remains an ambulance chaser


Iquitos:

That's rather harsh.  I have no information she was an "ambulance chaser"?  Can you give us a reference to that?  Was she a personal injury attorney?  I think it's great to debate the issues, the stories, etc. But, making a suggestion like this, if it's not true is way below the belt!

I sense quite a bit of jealousy of Greta with bloggers covering this case. Not sure why?  Each has their place in this story.  I praise her work...it's been factual, fair and gutsy.  IMO that depicts the best in journalism.


No jealousy here - actually i considered her handling of the OJ trial one of the highlights of my viewing history - when she moved to FOX I was truly disappointed because I do not have access to FOX - I think she is doing an incredible job in this instance but I have to remark on what a fine line she is treading between journalism, lawyering, etc. - a fine line - when all is said and done - only she is agile enough to navigate.


Sandy, your post was great.  And, something well worth keeping an eye on.  She is walking a fine line.  THE FOLLOWING IS A WHAT IF... say we didn't see the part of the film clip where she forced the meeting, or threatened Joran's family if they didn't comply...or edited statements in the film, then he gets arrested for what was said?  Yikes, now that would be dreadful for justice in this case.  I don't know Dutch law but if that happened here the case could be thrown out...at least for the dad.

You are right, she is walking a fine line.  I suspect she's a full professional and hasn't done wrong...but, she's still down there covering the case.  Time will tell.


Title: Greta
Post by: Vorpman on June 24, 2005, 11:28:26 AM
Speaking about Greta Van Susteren:  here's a link dealing with her background and Scientology.  

 http://home.snafu.de/tilman/prolinks/greta.html

Greta van Susteren once said in the Washington Post that she is a Scientologist ("I like the ethics") and in People ("I'm a strong advocate of their ethics"). Ethics in Scientology is not the same as in the real world. It means to "remove counter-intentions from the environment", i.e. to get the job done and apply Scientology. Greta has done this for many years at CNN and before, although she has tried to keep a rather low profile on the Scientology angle of these activities.

The St. Petersburg Times about Greta and John: High profile couple never pairs church and state
 
The National Law Journal about John's failed RITALIN litigation: Ritalin Class Actions: Fast Start, Big Stumble
 
Her lawfirm got in trouble twice for active soliciting, commonly known as "ambulance chasing". The second time was after the ValuJet disaster. She showed her arrogant attitude in her CNN show (read the transcript). In other reactions, the argument brought by her lawfirm was mostly that "other lawyers are just jealous".
 
After the Heaven's gate mass suicide, she discussed suing the drug company that manufactured the product used for suicide. This is closely related to the viewpoint of scientology, that psychiatry and drug companies is responsible for every bad thing that happens anywhere.
 
She represented Amy Frith in her lawsuit against Wellspring, a cult recovery institution. She was not only unsuccessful, but it was also embarassing for her, as she had to admit to an opposing lawyer that she was scared of Amy's abusive husband.
 
On 12.6.1998 she agreed to represent the Southern Baptist Convention against lawsuits filed by women against discrimination. Greta's argument (also available in RealAudio): she is distressed by outside people who criticize the way a religion wants to run itself, and she would also leave the KKK alone if it was a religion.
 
According to Graham Berry, Greta van Susteren helped convince CNN to cancel an exposé about the Scientology front Applied Scholastics.
 
Greta and her husband John P. Coale were investors in the Ponzi scheme of Scientologist Reed Slatkin; they invested $2.1 million and received $2.7 million in payments according to this report by the court-appointed trustee. When being told that even innocent parties (i.e. participants who didn't know it was a Ponzi scheme) are required to return the extra money, John Coale said: "I'll fight this thing for 100 years" because "Most of that money went to the IRS." (Source: The Los Angeles Times from 21.12.2001)
The 100 years fight is already over. John and Greta are settling the case and will pay back $705,000 to the estate in seven semi-annual installments.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 11:28:37 AM
as to the charge of ambulance chasing -

Greta Van Susteren's law firm, Coale and Van Susteren, has been named in news reports as having contacted families of ValuJet crash victims.

the firm was censured twice for ambulance chasing!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: jane on June 24, 2005, 11:29:26 AM
Quote from: "LostinTime"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.


That's Southern Hospitality


Personally, I think all that talk about who bought drinks for who is an important part of the email narative. If it was Natalee who bought the drinks, then no drugs would have been put in hers. If someone else bought the drinks, it means that one of them could have slipped something in her drink. So, the trio is going to focus very much on this part of the story.

According to what we've heard so far, Natalee was already at C&C's, so it may be more significant that Joran went to Natalee's gambling table rather than who said hello first. Also, if  Joran went to C&C's just before closing, that seems significant to me, also. It seems like a lot trouble to go to for just 1/2 hour of club time.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 11:31:29 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


If a drug was slipped into NH's drink, that alone could constitute premediation.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:33:02 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
as to the charge of ambulance chasing -

Greta Van Susteren's law firm, Coale and Van Susteren, has been named in news reports as having contacted families of ValuJet crash victims.

the firm was censured twice for ambulance chasing!


But, was she suspected of ambulance chasing?  Give me the low down on any large, even respected law firm and we'll all see charges of all kinds in every direction.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 11:33:07 AM
has it ever been  verified what natalee was drinking? in the heat - she was small - alchohol poisoning is not out of the question


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: joebob on June 24, 2005, 11:33:18 AM
Quote from: "wwizard"
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


I am from the south also and I agree with you. Some won't want to hear it though
. The truth can sting.


Well I'm not sure about your scenario..its certainly an option, although hard to reconcile the inconsistencies in the different stories. If she just swam, why would they not just say she swam off?  "Swimming off" is an act of free will.

The only person that really truly knows NH is missing.  

Often, those that work hard also play hard.  My wife and her three sisters all did well in school. All around 4.0 in high school. All had jobs and volunteered at hospitals and other places during high school.  All went to college, all went to graduate school. One becoming valedictorian of her graduate school class. Another became an MD. Raised by republican and religious parents who never miss church (even when travelling)  in a well to do community. The point is that all 4 partied fairly heavily, all drank, all did some amount of drugs, all lived with boyfriends before getting married and without parents knowing anything other than "light drinking".  All were and continually are very close to their mother and my phone bill is good evidence of that.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 11:34:12 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "mojo"
as to the charge of ambulance chasing -

Greta Van Susteren's law firm, Coale and Van Susteren, has been named in news reports as having contacted families of ValuJet crash victims.

the firm was censured twice for ambulance chasing!


But, was she suspected of ambulance chasing?  Give me the low down on any large, even respected law firm and we'll all see charges of all kinds in every direction.


she was a partner, wasn't she?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wvlady on June 24, 2005, 11:35:27 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160558,00.html

anyone posted that yet? if so, sorry.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 11:36:13 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"

Why does she knows Nat  was kidnapped?, and tells us that the 3 have key info to a larger conspiracy?


If Steve Croes supplies Deepak with roofies, GHB, or X, and Deepak gives it to Joran, who puts the drug in Natalee's drink, and they drive past the Holiday Inn against her consent, you then have all the necessary components of conspiracy and kidnapping.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 11:36:27 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi
 VERY INTERESTING CANCON


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "mojo"
as to the charge of ambulance chasing -

Greta Van Susteren's law firm, Coale and Van Susteren, has been named in news reports as having contacted families of ValuJet crash victims.

the firm was censured twice for ambulance chasing!


But, was she suspected of ambulance chasing?  Give me the low down on any large, even respected law firm and we'll all see charges of all kinds in every direction.


she was a partner, wasn't she?


There are many partners in all law firms.  I suspect she's a managing partner, not just a partner.  I suggest you go do research on any large law firm and look up their profiles.  There are suits filed against them all the time.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MissyRose on June 24, 2005, 11:39:45 AM
I think the dad is how Joran got home from the beach that night.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DT on June 24, 2005, 11:40:18 AM
I really think some of you have a much to cynical attitude about NH and her family.  I don't believe that she was a perfect person with no flaws, but I don't remember anyone saying that either.  Everyone makes mistakes for whatever reason, and Natalee was probably not any different.

At this point their is a wide variety of possiblities open.  But some of them ,like just wunderin's theroy for example, are really out there in terms of plausibility. She may not have been the perfect child, but come on. Not very many women I know go out and have sex with four people and do drugs all in the same night.  It could certainly have happened I'm sure, but I don't think it's very likely.  Plus, most of the evidence is against it anyways.  Both of the brothers say Natalee never spoke to them and most of the speculation I've heard has steve croes being very limited in his involvment.  I wouldn't be surprised if she did something with Joran, but to suggest she was with all four guys willingly like some people have is ridiculous.  

Another thing is this, if Natalee was such a bad person like your post makes her out to be, then why are her friends defending her? Hell, most of the girls I can remember acting like that in High School weren't very popular and they certainly wouldn't have received this sort of support had something come up to challnege their characters.  Everyone who knows Natalee has said the same thing, she was level-head, nice, and a bit naive.  Everything we know about this girl points in the opposite direction of what your post has made her out to be.

Oh and about her eyes looking sad, give me a break!  She looks perfectly content in all of those pictures.  

Believe me, If I see some evidence suggesting that she wasn't she did the sort of stuff your post mentioned, then I'll believe you.  But until then try to base your speculations on facts, and not just your cynical outlook on teenagers.  Believe it or not their are quite a few of them who are just like
natalees friends have made her out to be.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:40:45 AM
New poll about Depak emails.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=293


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "mojo"
as to the charge of ambulance chasing -

Greta Van Susteren's law firm, Coale and Van Susteren, has been named in news reports as having contacted families of ValuJet crash victims.

the firm was censured twice for ambulance chasing!


But, was she suspected of ambulance chasing?  Give me the low down on any large, even respected law firm and we'll all see charges of all kinds in every direction.


she was a partner, wasn't she?


There are many partners in all law firms.  I suspect she's a managing partner, not just a partner.  I suggest you go do research on any large law firm and look up their profiles.  There are suits filed against them all the time.



this is not any large law firm - this was two managing partners -- greta and her husband. coale and van susteren


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 11:41:08 AM
Quote from: "mojo"
has it ever been  verified what natalee was drinking? in the heat - she was small - alchohol poisoning is not out of the question

Hi mojo!! :D
Wow , what a twist in events, not sure I'm buying everything though
I do believe she was drinking ( who wouldn't) and I had a friend in University who did die of alcohol poisoning, its possible but why would they not go for help it could be easily proven.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wwizard on June 24, 2005, 11:41:34 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "mojo"
as to the charge of ambulance chasing -

Greta Van Susteren's law firm, Coale and Van Susteren, has been named in news reports as having contacted families of ValuJet crash victims.

the firm was censured twice for ambulance chasing!


But, was she suspected of ambulance chasing?  Give me the low down on any large, even respected law firm and we'll all see charges of all kinds in every direction.


she was a partner, wasn't she?


There are many partners in all law firms.  I suspect she's a managing
partner, not just a partner.  I suggest you go do research on any large law firm and look up their profiles.  There are suits filed against them all the time.


Respectfully, why does this matter?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Debatl on June 24, 2005, 11:41:36 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160602,00.html

monkeys, monkeys, monkeys everywhere


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 11:42:20 AM
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 11:43:00 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?

Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol

Thanks Caligirl, I wasnt gonna respond since I too have seen these gansta signs in my own home and know they come from MTV and whatnot lol. If I at anytime felt they were grang related I might have to beat my child, but he makes those gestures too, and I know all in all hes just a dumb teenage kid.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DT on June 24, 2005, 11:43:29 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


I thought she wasn't able to visit Deepak?


Title: Re: Sleeping with the devils
Post by: AZsunny on June 24, 2005, 11:44:09 AM
No problem with breaking the news but what agenda is being pushed?  The Mansur family is know for money laudering and smuggling.  If Greta is unaware of this, from her FBI informants then .. well I guess one story before the other...

http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=355&sid=100[/quote]

maybe mansur is a fellow scientologist?  sorry for posting this[/quote]

 :?: I missed something,what is the Mansur connection to this?? :?:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 11:45:47 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


Me too,I have been to busy lastnight and today to catch up but it doesn't make sense that the boys are not involved.
Why would Joran hurt her if she was willing, or if it was an accident why not confess it can be proven.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: joebob on June 24, 2005, 11:46:32 AM
Quote from: "cancon"
I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi
 


Thats what I think


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MissyRose on June 24, 2005, 11:47:14 AM
DT- I agree with your statements. But on the other hand her parents need to remember to do that. Throwing stones at a boy who had snuck out and obviously got himself into trouble, also.  I think the point is no one is perfect. Not the teenage girl who "got lost in paradise" and not the teenage boy who "lost" her. And not the parents for believing they raised smart, responsible, young adults.

Just my opinion. Just my point of view.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "mojo"
has it ever been  verified what natalee was drinking? in the heat - she was small - alchohol poisoning is not out of the question

Hi mojo!! :D
Wow , what a twist in events, not sure I'm buying everything though
I do believe she was drinking ( who wouldn't) and I had a friend in University who did die of alcohol poisoning, its possible but why would they not go for help it could be easily proven.


hey roxy - and the problem is that the symptoms of alchohol poisoning would not seem alarming i suspect. it would just appear that she passed out.  but it certainly would not explain a cover up to me. why not call medical help?

sadly, i have to agree that it's probably more sinister than simple alchohol poisoning, unless he was afraid about being out without his parents knowing and he was involved sexually....admittedly that wouldn't look too good, but being under suspicion of murder....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


No visitor except for minors....Deepak is 21 so she can't see him. :mrgreen:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:47:27 AM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
I think the dad is how Joran got home from the beach that night.


I think so too.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 11:47:34 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?

Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol

Thanks Caligirl, I wasnt gonna respond since I too have seen these gansta signs in my own home and know they come from MTV and whatnot lol. If I at anytime felt they were grang related I might have to beat my child, but he makes those gestures too, and I know all in all hes just a dumb teenage kid.


Thanks Momto5!!!!!!!

Seriously though, and I mean this int he best way, by being on this board, I learned how different everywhere in the US is etc. How many people are oblivious to this being a huge "subculture" or "fasiontrend" in the US.

Generally speaking, at least from my own experience, real "ganstas" typically try to do a little more blending these days trying to not bring to much attention to themselves. Clothes, signs etc seem to just be a fab going on, just like during the early 90's Grunge (looking sloppy, wearing flannels, looking greasy and unshowered) was in the thing. lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


No visitor except for minors....Deepak is 21 so she can't see him. :mrgreen:


Diva, Satish is 18, not a minor.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DT on June 24, 2005, 11:49:25 AM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


Me too,I have been to busy lastnight and today to catch up but it doesn't make sense that the boys are not involved.
Why would Joran hurt her if she was willing, or if it was an accident why not confess it can be proven.


Just a possibility but maybe he gave her some drugs (willingly or not) that caused her to overdose.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:50:11 AM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
It is the Gomez name.  He has been missing for several days.


 :arrow:
   It was reported in a post here he is/was a columbian reporter I think.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


Could it be the ages  there are different rules.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 11:50:52 AM
<<<<Thanks Momto5!!!!!!!

Seriously though, and I mean this int he best way, by being on this board, I learned how different everywhere in the US is etc. How many people are oblivious to this being a huge "subculture" or "fasiontrend" in the US.

Generally speaking, at least from my own experience, real "ganstas" typically try to do a little more blending these days trying to not bring to much attention to themselves. Clothes, signs etc seem to just be a fab going on, just like during the early 90's Grunge (looking sloppy, wearing flannels, looking greasy and unshowered) was in the thing. lol[/quote]>>>

Well I lived in Souther CA for 26 yrs and actually remember getting lost in Long Beach, probably not somewhere anyone from palm springs wants to get lost but I did. So when my son whose 13 and his friends try to talk all bad and use hand gestures and act like general punks I have to laugh. If they got lost in Long Beach and saw some of the real "gangstas" that were staring me down as I went in drunk to buy me some lil donuts they might wet themselves HA!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:51:18 AM
E-mail No. 2

Greta,
Can you please give us an idea of how far the beach area where Joran said he was with Natalee is to the Van der Sloot home? Is it a short walk, or would one most likely need a ride from the beach to the home? I'm not surprised that [Paul] van der Sloot was arrested. I just pray they get answers now.
Thanks,
Patty Mathews
Claremore, OK

ANSWER: It is at least a few miles... I have driven it many times but we go a different route every time and often get lost!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: jane on June 24, 2005, 11:52:28 AM
Quote from: "sb"
Kevin, Bryan... close enough. The shoving match DID happen.

The way the article is written makes it sound like it was in conjunction with Joran talking to Natalee, but I don't think that is so. That is just a journalistic filler.


That's what it looks like to me, too. The MB kid didn't say it. The journalist did. Still, if I were an investigator, I wouldn't just toss this little tidbit away as insignificant. It could be related.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: cancon on June 24, 2005, 11:53:14 AM
Quote from: "Scott"


Are you saying, for all intents and purposes, that it is impossible to get a conviction based strictly on circumstantial evidence?


It is not impossible, it is just difficult.......

we have a case in Canada where the exboyfriend was found guilty of murder and no body has been found, to this day


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:53:18 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "joebob"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Morning all.. Rob.. are you taking a laptop with you on your trip??


Are you going to the smelly pond?

going to the abandoned town near KIA. this the second time i posted this.. some stuff is not going through





ROB...being part decap is sure a sign to all...how "bout being left for dead in an old GOVERNMENT cemetary???


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


Me too,I have been to busy lastnight and today to catch up but it doesn't make sense that the boys are not involved.
Why would Joran hurt her if she was willing, or if it was an accident why not confess it can be proven.


Just a possibility but maybe he gave her some drugs (willingly or not) that caused her to overdose.


Still it doesn't make sense, my goodness he knows what he is facing now, why not confess , he would in a lot less trouble.
I don't trust the other boys because if it was a gang bang then I can see the cover -up and even the fathers invovment.
I hope Joran is not going to get this whole thing pinned on him because it seems that there would have to more involved.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:56:00 AM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?

Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol



HEY CALI!!  what up gangsta??? :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
DT- I agree with your statements. But on the other hand her parents need to remember to do that. Throwing stones at a boy who had snuck out and obviously got himself into trouble, also.  I think the point is no one is perfect. Not the teenage girl who "got lost in paradise" and not the teenage boy who "lost" her. And not the parents for believing they raised smart, responsible, young adults.

Just my opinion. Just my point of view.


I'll tell you one thing.  If my kid were missing and the last known person to be with her lied, allowed others to be held for a crime he knew they had no knowledge of, and changed his story for almost a month!!!!  I'D NOT ONLY THROW STONES I'D BE THROWING BOULDERS!!!!

Give me a break!  Damn right they should throw stones!  They should scream, hollar, search, question, accuse...whatever it takes they have every right to know where their kid is...NO MATTER WHAT!!!

You're way off base here.  This is not a group therapy deal...it's a human life that's missing.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MissyRose on June 24, 2005, 11:56:34 AM
Everyone is saying Confessing is less trouble. But what are the laws if they don't find a body?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


If a drug was slipped into NH's drink, that alone could constitute premediation.


OR IS IT PREMEDICATION?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Mom in Ark on June 24, 2005, 11:57:30 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
It is the Gomez name.  He has been missing for several days.


 :arrow:
   It was reported in a post here he is/was a columbian reporter I think.


WOW!  A reporter?  I wonder if he stumbled onto something...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: ajmac57 on June 24, 2005, 11:58:07 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


Could it be the ages  there are different rules.


My guess would be they don't want the brothers to communicate to each other through their mother.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:58:24 AM
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "MissyRose"
I think the dad is how Joran got home from the beach that night.


I think so too.


If he was at the beach...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


If a drug was slipped into NH's drink, that alone could constitute premediation.


OR IS IT PREMEDICATION?


Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 11:59:41 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... :(


just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! The Zoo Keeper}}}


i m getting sick and tired of ppl saying crap they have no sense saying.. there has not been one shred of evidence that natalee was a"loose" person.. NOT ONE... natalee is the VICTIM.....with ppl like this its no wonder ppl like m. jackson., O.J, Kobe, and a hell of allotta of others walk....placing blame on natalee is reprehensible.....you ppl should know better....i ve had enough of it already....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MissyRose on June 24, 2005, 12:01:23 PM
I'll tell you one thing.  If my kid were missing and the last known person to be with her lied, allowed others to be held for a crime he knew they had no knowledge of, and changed his story for almost a month!!!!  I'D NOT ONLY THROW STONES I'D BE THROWING BOULDERS!!!!

Give me a break!  Damn right they should throw stones!  They should scream, hollar, search, question, accuse...whatever it takes they have every right to know where their kid is...NO MATTER WHAT!!!

You're way off base here.  This is not a group therapy deal...it's a human life that's missing.[/quote]

I agree with you 100%. But don't you think if everyone stopped the "he was out til 3 am, at a casino, had his own place" screaming. It may work out a lot better.  I have two kids and let me tell you, I would be searching and looking, but I wouldn't be playing the holier than now crap.

And it is about a missing person, not an attack on personal opions.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: tkubi7 on June 24, 2005, 12:01:34 PM
I have been to Aruba several times and have been in CnC's myself. The bartenders are real partiers too. I watched as they walked through the crowd, tipping girls heads back and literally pouring drinks down their throats. My question is does anyone know if the bartenders have been interviewed and to what extent if they have been? Seems to me that given the fact Joran, Deepak and Satish frequented the place they would know these bartenders. Now wouldn't it be possible to have your friend the bartender put something in a drink or pour it down your throat and no one would be the wiser?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: may on June 24, 2005, 12:01:47 PM
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
No matter where you are or what your occupation, all monkeys are hooked, and lovingly face the same challenges. Thank God for Scared Monkeys.


...well, i know I'M hooked.  :oops:

just thought i would finally register and delurk, as i have been reading the message board for 10 days or so. not to mention being glued to the tv, hoping and praying that natalee will be found alive.

just thought i would say hi.

may


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Onnimus on June 24, 2005, 12:02:24 PM
http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html#000814

I came across this link from another site........if you scroll less than about halfway down there is a picture supposedly of Joran with a young "Asian" (i say Asian in quotes because I don't know, it's what the site says) girl of about 13 whose face is blurred out. Is this really Joran? I can't tell, it sort of looks like him but looks kind of snide or sinister or something. The sites speculates maybe there is some truth to what Geraldo said about a tape.....but my point is I have never seen this pic before or any of Joran with a girl who fits that description.

?????  :?:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 12:02:31 PM
It seems like PVDS is "sweating bullets"....I wonder if he's afraid of more than the police, for some reason, and the killing of the guy found in the cemetary and the missing reporter are warning signs:  If you talk, this will happen to you...that kind of thing.

For someone who was studying the law, he personifies fear in a big way...it seems like there's more going on.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:02:43 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.
 

NADIRA RAMIREZ:  MAYBE YOU CAN VISIT ONE AND  NOT THE OTHER BECASUE YOU MIGHT SHUTTLE STORY ADJUSTMENT MESSAGES.  SHE HAS THE STORY SOWN PAT AND I FIND HER CREDIBLE.  SHE TOLD GRETA LAST NIGHT WHAT HER "INNOCENT" SONS TOLD HER   REMEMBER THEY ADMITTTED THEY LIED AT FIRST.  BUT OF COURSE SHE WATCHES TV TOO SO SHE KNOWS WHAT JOHN AND JONES SAID AFTER THEY GOT OUT.  IS SHE GUYANESE?  I MISSED WHERE THEY BOYS LIVED WITH THEIR GRANDMOTHER, SURINAME, GUYANA.  NEITHER OF THESE FAST LANE VENUES


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LemonDrop on June 24, 2005, 12:02:57 PM
I'm sick of it too.  (the talk about loose people)

For the record, even "loose people" do NOT deserve to become victims.  No wonder rape victims hate to testify!   :evil:

There has not been any evidence about Natalie.

Back to the reporter found killed, what's up with that???


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:03:47 PM
just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! The Zoo Keeper}}}[/quote]

i m getting sick and tired of ppl saying crap they have no sense saying.. there has not been one shred of evidence that natalee was a"loose" person.. NOT ONE... natalee is the VICTIM.....with ppl like this its no wonder ppl like m. jackson., O.J, Kobe, and a hell of allotta of others walk....placing blame on natalee is reprehensible.....you ppl should know better....i ve had enough of it already....[/quote]

ROB i agree with you...it's hard to stay on track enough as it is without question that imply that this is the fault of NH.... I'm glad you are getting a vacation...in some ways I think you'd relax more on an island that you weren't so over-familiar with... You leave tomorrow rihjt??? I hope you have a good break. :!:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MissyRose on June 24, 2005, 12:06:09 PM
Who said she was loose? All I was saying is she was a teenage girl on vacation and met a cute boy. I am from Fort Lauderdale, and have spent many vacations with boys from out of town. AND if something happened to me it wouldn't have been because I was loose.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: NH on June 24, 2005, 12:06:19 PM
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "Scott"


Are you saying, for all intents and purposes, that it is impossible to get a conviction based strictly on circumstantial evidence?


It is not impossible, it is just difficult.......

we have a case in Canada where the exboyfriend was found guilty of murder and no body has been found, to this day


Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: GeOrGiA on June 24, 2005, 12:07:10 PM
I don't think "Just Wundering" is trying to imply that Natalee was a "loose girl" or anything like that.  I think he/she is only saying good girls break wild every now and then.  I did (and to this day my mother still wouldn't believe the story if she heard it) and so did my 19 year old (but I believed the story, because it was so much like my own).  Kids bust loose every once in a while - usually after 18 years of "goodness".  She worked hard in school and in her community - she deserved a break.  It's just unfortunate she happened to be around some pretty bad people when (and if) she did.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: "may"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
No matter where you are or what your occupation, all monkeys are hooked, and lovingly face the same challenges. Thank God for Scared Monkeys.


...well, i know I'M hooked.  :oops:

just thought i would finally register and delurk, as i have been reading the message board for 10 days or so. not to mention being glued to the tv, hoping and praying that natalee will be found alive.

just thought i would say hi.

may


Hello May.  Glad you finally decided to cross over to the "other side".  Post away!!   :D


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Professor on June 24, 2005, 12:08:47 PM
I was not surprised by the arrest of PVDS yesterday, and feel it was long overdue. Here's what I am expecting to happen today. I expect Aruban authorities to confiscate the one or two vehicles of the VDS family. As far as I know, neither of them have been checked yet for trace evidence. Am I correct in that assumption?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: "NH"

Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


I'm not an attorney, but watched coverage of the Scott Peterson case.  Before Laci's body was even found, many criminal attorneys stated that he could be found guilty without it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 12:10:06 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
I was not surprised by the arrest of PVDS yesterday, and feel it was long overdue. Here's what I am expecting to happen today. I expect Aruban authorities to confiscate the one or two vehicles of the VDS family. As far as I know, neither of them have been checked yet for trace evidence. Am I correct in that assumption?


AVDS yesterday said they took 2 of their cars a few days ago when they searched the home, and the LE still have them.


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! The Zoo Keeper}}}


i m getting sick and tired of ppl saying crap they have no sense saying.. there has not been one shred of evidence that natalee was a"loose" person.. NOT ONE... natalee is the VICTIM.....with ppl like this its no wonder ppl like m. jackson., O.J, Kobe, and a hell of allotta of others walk....placing blame on natalee is reprehensible.....you ppl should know better....i ve had enough of it already....[/quote]

ROB i agree with you...it's hard to stay on track enough as it is without question that imply that this is the fault of NH.... I'm glad you are getting a vacation...in some ways I think you'd relax more on an island that you weren't so over-familiar with... You leave tomorrow rihjt??? I hope you have a good break. :!:[/quote]

thanx monkey..i worry about ppl, thats just the way i am..its part of the human condition....i dont even have to know em.. i just care about my fellow man....to see the heart break that has been cause, unnecessarily, is unbelievable.... yeah im leaving tommorrow, early,...i think your right but i always go to aruba and don t want to think about not ever going back.. so i ll stick it out and stand by the fabulous aruban ppl.. after all their victims also....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
I was not surprised by the arrest of PVDS yesterday, and feel it was long overdue. Here's what I am expecting to happen today. I expect Aruban authorities to confiscate the one or two vehicles of the VDS family. As far as I know, neither of them have been checked yet for trace evidence. Am I correct in that assumption?


Actually, both vehicles were conficated last week and (assuming) inspected for evidence. No idea obivously of the results...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
I'll tell you one thing.  If my kid were missing and the last known person to be with her lied, allowed others to be held for a crime he knew they had no knowledge of, and changed his story for almost a month!!!!  I'D NOT ONLY THROW STONES I'D BE THROWING BOULDERS!!!!

Give me a break!  Damn right they should throw stones!  They should scream, hollar, search, question, accuse...whatever it takes they have every right to know where their kid is...NO MATTER WHAT!!!

You're way off base here.  This is not a group therapy deal...it's a human life that's missing.


I agree with you 100%. But don't you think if everyone stopped the "he was out til 3 am, at a casino, had his own place" screaming. It may work out a lot better.  I have two kids and let me tell you, I would be searching and looking, but I wouldn't be playing the holier than now crap.

And it is about a missing person, not an attack on personal opions.[/quote]

NANCY DREW'S RESPONSE BEGINS HERE...

Joran injected himself in this case. With that comes natural public scrutiny.   He was the last known person to see her alive. In all this time he hasn't come clean with the truth. If he had we probably wouldn't have a missing person...dead or alive he does hold the key to where she is.  There would be no reason to wonder and we'd know about that night and Joran's role.

As time goes on, it is natural Joran's life and lifestyle will be questioned.  Since he has held the truth back, the scrutiny will get louder and tougher.   And it should.

It's far different with others who are randomly named, like the "L" referred to here. We need to be careful where we go with rumors of involvement in situations like that.

I've got kids, I'm well aware, even the best of students and kids are drinking and doing some kind of drugs...it's a sad fact in our society...part of our culture.  There are some who aren't...but, it's a tough road if you're totally clean in our world.

But, Joran deserves and will get all kinds of scrutiny, fair or not, until he tells the truth.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MissyRose on June 24, 2005, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "NH"

Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


I'm not an attorney, but watched coverage of the Scott Peterson case.  Before Laci's body was even found, many criminal attorneys stated that he could be found guilty without it.


I would think that it would be possible, as long as the other evidence is strong enough to tell the story. But we don't know what that other evidence really is.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 12:10:50 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
I was not surprised by the arrest of PVDS yesterday, and feel it was long overdue. Here's what I am expecting to happen today. I expect Aruban authorities to confiscate the one or two vehicles of the VDS family. As far as I know, neither of them have been checked yet for trace evidence. Am I correct in that assumption?

Anita VDS said they took both cars and they have not been given back. They have obviously been driving, whose car though who knows. I couldnt be too surprised if they chose to search that car now as well.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:11:21 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


If a drug was slipped into NH's drink, that alone could constitute premediation.


OR IS IT PREMEDICATION?


Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!
 

ANGIE:  YOU JUST WONT LET GO OF THAT ONE!  it is a very relevant question and i have not seen an answer.  pls continue to keep asking as we have serious adhd on here with all that is coming at us.  not even a chance to read back!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: monkeysMOO on June 24, 2005, 12:11:42 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"

ROB...being part decap is sure a sign to all...how "bout being left for dead in an old GOVERNMENT cemetary???


I find it interesting that the partially decapitated body was found on the Saturday that Paul Van der Sloot was first being questioned by LE.  I didn't know it was a government cemetery, but if that's the case then IMO that could make the coincidence of dates even more significant.

I'm still not sure what, if any, significance that body has to the NH case.  It will be interesting to get the scoop on PVDS once things in this case have been solidified one way or the other.  I imagine if PVDS is a corrupt official on the take, that point will come to light in all of this investigation.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


No visitor except for minors....Deepak is 21 so she can't see him. :mrgreen:


Diva, Satish is 18, not a minor.


:SCRATCHES HEAD: OK, Sorry Its Joran thats 17, DUH too many ppl, too many #'s LMAO sorry


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:11:49 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?

Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol



HEY CALI!!  what up gangsta??? :lol:

FOM...not much homie! Jus tryin to earn some benjis!

lmao


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
I was not surprised by the arrest of PVDS yesterday, and feel it was long overdue. Here's what I am expecting to happen today. I expect Aruban authorities to confiscate the one or two vehicles of the VDS family. As far as I know, neither of them have been checked yet for trace evidence. Am I correct in that assumption?[/quote

In the interview with Anita, she told what was taken from their home. I am sure she said two cars.


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 12:12:27 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! The Zoo Keeper}}}


i m getting sick and tired of ppl saying crap they have no sense saying.. there has not been one shred of evidence that natalee was a"loose" person.. NOT ONE... natalee is the VICTIM.....with ppl like this its no wonder ppl like m. jackson., O.J, Kobe, and a hell of allotta of others walk....placing blame on natalee is reprehensible.....you ppl should know better....i ve had enough of it already....[/quote]

ROB i agree with you...it's hard to stay on track enough as it is without question that imply that this is the fault of NH.... I'm glad you are getting a vacation...in some ways I think you'd relax more on an island that you weren't so over-familiar with... You leave tomorrow rihjt??? I hope you have a good break. :!:[/quote]

Yes , Natalee is the victim but why would it matter if she was "loose" or not, sounds very sexist to me.
I believe Natalee went willingly, Joran was a cute kid. I would have done the same thing myself.
My goodness she was 18.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BlueKyGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:12:30 PM
I left for a few minutes and returned to find that Scared Monkeys is at capacity and it's hard to log on--is there some breaking news I need to be filled in on?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:12:45 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I am curious why no one brings up the issue of Deepak's mother Nadira, not being able to visit him but able to visit Satish.

Through all the little pieces we get, I found that to really be interesting.


No visitor except for minors....Deepak is 21 so she can't see him. :mrgreen:


Diva, Satish is 18, not a minor.


:SCRATCHES HEAD: OK, Sorry Its Joran thats 17, DUH too many ppl, too many #'s LMAO sorry


ROFLMAO ::giving Diva a back rub::::


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?

Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol


I've never experienced 'small town' USA in 34 years.  I've lived in NY, DC and Miami my whole life, and I've travelled the Caribbean extensively.  

The key word to my comment was 'WANNABE'.  He's no more a gangsta than Da Ali G.  I don't think Joran, Deepak and Satish are literally driving in their low rider with their glocks, waiting to pop a cap in someone's ass.

I do, however, firmly believe that Joran is of the mindset that his softened image as the ex-pat kid of a Dutch judge gets hardened by his misogynistic ways.  His playa status most certainly earns him street cred within the Aruban community.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Professor on June 24, 2005, 12:14:11 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Professor"
I was not surprised by the arrest of PVDS yesterday, and feel it was long overdue. Here's what I am expecting to happen today. I expect Aruban authorities to confiscate the one or two vehicles of the VDS family. As far as I know, neither of them have been checked yet for trace evidence. Am I correct in that assumption?


AVDS yesterday said they took 2 of their cars a few days ago when they searched the home, and the LE still have them.


Well, then maybe one of these vehicles contained trace evidence that indicated that Natalee was IN one of those vehicles. How long does it take for DNA testing?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CancunMole on June 24, 2005, 12:14:17 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi
 VERY INTERESTING CANCON


Soory but catching up........

This post from way back has a possible place in this theory.

mehill10 Location: Gardendale,AL    Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:45 pm        
 
i saw this on riehl world view Posted on "The Troubling Puzzle" blog:

Quote
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared. I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant. Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious....... Posted by: samthebam | June 19, 2005 03:35 PM
interesting might explain why dad is being questioned

My question is: Could it have been Steve Croes who saw him (how would anyone from MB on the trip know him?) and provided this info to someone fromMG who was down ther searching?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:14:52 PM
Quote from: "monkeysMOO"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"

ROB...being part decap is sure a sign to all...how "bout being left for dead in an old GOVERNMENT cemetary???


I find it interesting that the partially decapitated body was found on the Saturday that Paul Van der Sloot was first being questioned by LE.  I didn't know it was a government cemetery, but if that's the case then IMO that could make the coincidence of dates even more significant.

I'm still not sure what, if any, significance that body has to the NH case.  It will be interesting to get the scoop on PVDS once things in this case have been solidified one way or the other.  I imagine if PVDS is a corrupt official on the take, that point will come to light in all of this investigation.


 :?: Maybe this guy was about to turn on Paulus?  To try to save Natalie??


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: writergal on June 24, 2005, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "NH"

Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


I'm not an attorney, but watched coverage of the Scott Peterson case.  Before Laci's body was even found, many criminal attorneys stated that he could be found guilty without it.



   In the United States, at least, it is possible to prosecute for murder without a body. This happened a little over 20 years ago in Massachusetts. William Douglas was tried for the murder of Robin Benedict. Robin's corpse was never located, but physical evidence (brain tissue and blood) was located in Douglas's car and home. At the last minute, Douglas copped a plea. But the point is, the state was able to make a case against him. It is a pretty unusual circumstance, though, and I don't know how Dutch/Aruban law would apply here.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 12:15:57 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "NH"

Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


I'm not an attorney, but watched coverage of the Scott Peterson case.  Before Laci's body was even found, many criminal attorneys stated that he could be found guilty without it.


You are indeed correct. Modesto was already in the process of getting an arrest warrant for Snott. They had enogh evidence already. Then came the bodies washing up, this was confirmed in Catherine Criers book on the case, as well as the People mag interview w/ the prosecutors, detectives etc. They had enogh w/o the body...

I know Laci's case up, down, backwards & fowards


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 12:16:11 PM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Yes, that is possible. That's why the police are quite intense, AVS called it even extreme, in their interrogations. A confession is a good thing to start from if you are the prosecutor in this case. However a confession is not needed in court if there is enough evidence that ties the suspect to the crime. No evidence and no confession basically means that you are innocent.
That's why maybe, and I am speculating here, Jorans father advised Joran not to say anything because a 'confession', even if he is innocent is basically enough te get you in jail.
There are failsaves for this in the dutch justicesystem, so any judge in this case will demand more from the prosecution than a confession.


Are you saying, for all intents and purposes, that it is impossible to get a conviction based strictly on circumstantial evidence?


Well, almost. No evidence and no confession makes it very hard to prove that someone did the things he did.  That's why the investigation takes so much time. It's casebuilding before anyone is officially charged.

/edited for spelling


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Professor"
I was not surprised by the arrest of PVDS yesterday, and feel it was long overdue. Here's what I am expecting to happen today. I expect Aruban authorities to confiscate the one or two vehicles of the VDS family. As far as I know, neither of them have been checked yet for trace evidence. Am I correct in that assumption?


AVDS yesterday said they took 2 of their cars a few days ago when they searched the home, and the LE still have them.


Well, then maybe one of these vehicles contained trace evidence that indicated that Natalee was IN one of those vehicles. How long does it take for DNA testing?


dna testing, if the case is high profile, it could be only hours....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 12:17:05 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


If a drug was slipped into NH's drink, that alone could constitute premediation.


OR IS IT PREMEDICATION?


Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!
 

ANGIE:  YOU JUST WONT LET GO OF THAT ONE!  it is a very relevant question and i have not seen an answer.  pls continue to keep asking as we have serious adhd on here with all that is coming at us.  not even a chance to read back!


Sorry..and thanks...didnt mean to bring that subject up again


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:17:24 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
E-mail No. 2

Greta,
Can you please give us an idea of how far the beach area where Joran said he was with Natalee is to the Van der Sloot home? Is it a short walk, or would one most likely need a ride from the beach to the home? I'm not surprised that [Paul] van der Sloot was arrested. I just pray they get answers now.
Thanks,
Patty Mathews
Claremore, OK

ANSWER: It is at least a few miles... I have driven it many times but we go a different route every time and often get lost!
 

locals tell us too far to walk, maybe two hours.  they don't walk there.    joran has an image to protect.  that's why he goes to mikkie dee for his dad to pick him up (unless he is hiding his casino activities) and doesn't want his classy friends that he still depends on dad for transportation  but somehow the mb kids saw him there. must have already known him huh.    
he probably did not walk home.  probably not enough time  NEWS IS ON FM TOP 95.1


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:17:26 PM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?

Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol


I've never experienced 'small town' USA in 34 years.  I've lived in NY, DC and Miami my whole life, and I've travelled the Caribbean extensively.  

The key word to my comment was 'WANNABE'.  He's no more a gangsta than Da Ali G.  I don't think Joran, Deepak and Satish are literally driving in their low rider with their glocks, waiting to pop a cap in someone's ass.

I do, however, firmly believe that Joran is of the mindset that his softened image as the ex-pat kid of a Dutch judge gets hardened by his misogynistic ways.  His playa status most certainly earns him street cred within the Aruban community.


I guess his honor roll status really goes along with a "bad" boy.

Sorry Scott, I don't buy it but I do respect your opinion.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: MissyRose on June 24, 2005, 12:17:59 PM
nancy_drew,

I think we are on the same page. I agree with you about Joran.

I just think the truth needs to come out all together. Drugs, Drinking, sex, kidnapping. Whatever it is. It doesn't matter if they were good kids or bad. Natalee is missing and Joran has information. THE TRUTH!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 12:18:37 PM
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


Title: RADIO ON GET IN THERE MONKEYS
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:19:27 PM
RADIO GUY LIKES NAT'S DAD. IS POSITIVE.  DON'T LIKE BETH AND JUG.  THEY LIKED LARRY KING LAST NIGHT AND THAN LARRY FOR IT.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 12:19:58 PM
Something just popped into my mind - somewhere way back it was reported that when Joran went to scholl the next day he spent time in the woods (presumably on the school property or next door) - perhaps the Texas rangers should take their dogs in there.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:20:29 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!
 I THINK THEY WILL NOT CONFESS.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wwizard on June 24, 2005, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


I say they clam up out of FEAR.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: heavyheart on June 24, 2005, 12:21:11 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!
 I THINK THEY WILL NOT CONFESS.


I think they will burn in HELL!   :evil:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: "sandy"
Something just popped into my mind - somewhere way back it was reported that when Joran went to scholl the next day he spent time in the woods (presumably on the school property or next door) - perhaps the Texas rangers should take their dogs in there.


Now this is interesting...any idea where you saw this?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


Hmmm.. Diva I dunno.

I think it's something bigger than we can imagine. I am still stuck on what Beth said last or didn't say I guess would be more correct. She knows way more than she can tell us which makes me believe when she uses the word kidnap, she really means it.
If that's the case, I think all these people know who has her and where she is pehaps.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!

Ive been thinking and wonder this myself. I hope whatever happens they tell the TRUTH of what they know or dont know. I certainly hope his father doesnt make up something and take the wrap so to speak so his son can go free.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 12:22:15 PM
Quote from: "wwizard"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


I say they clam up out of FEAR.


not sure.. with dead ppl turning up all over they may clam up, out of fear....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 12:22:17 PM
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!
 I THINK THEY WILL NOT CONFESS.


I think they will burn in HELL!   :evil:

I would like to see evidence before I send them there!! :D


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 12:22:51 PM
Avatars and sig lines disabled for the afternoon looks like heavy traffic is building.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "momto5"

I havent read anywhere hes been charged but is being held under suspicion as the other suspects are. Also I think he appears nervous bc he has alot to lose, his family, job, reputation, freedom. He is a grown man with life exp and knows the implication of being convicted. The other boys are  younger with their lives ahead of them. Maybe not realizing the prison they are in might be their home for a long time if something doesnt happen soon. Makes sense to me why hes nervous.


I think in Joran's sick, demented mind, this gives him street cred amongst his wannabe gangsta friends.


What wannabe gangsta and street cred?




Do I have to sit here, yet again and explain over and over what a misconception that is?

Seriously, take a plane, come to Los Angeles. I will personally drive you around during your visit, through all of southern california because pehaps in "small" town USA (I now realize) you are not accustomed to what most kids these days are into.

::thinking maybe you missed my whole slang and hand sign class in here:::

That is why the forum sometimes breaks out into "homie" etc lol



HEY CALI!!  what up gangsta??? :lol:

FOM...not much homie! Jus tryin to earn some benjis!

lmao


Cali, Peace, One, Blaze....hahaha


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "sandy"
Something just popped into my mind - somewhere way back it was reported that when Joran went to scholl the next day he spent time in the woods (presumably on the school property or next door) - perhaps the Texas rangers should take their dogs in there.


Now this is interesting...any idea where you saw this?


Definitely saw it in here - could never retreive it - was in a passage talking about his behaviour and possibly the visit by the Twitty posse - sorry Holloway posse


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Professor on June 24, 2005, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi
 VERY INTERESTING CANCON


Soory but catching up........

This post from way back has a possible place in this theory.

mehill10 Location: Gardendale,AL    Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:45 pm        
 
i saw this on riehl world view Posted on "The Troubling Puzzle" blog:

Quote
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared. I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant. Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious....... Posted by: samthebam | June 19, 2005 03:35 PM
interesting might explain why dad is being questioned

My question is: Could it have been Steve Croes who saw him (how would anyone from MB on the trip know him?) and provided this info to someone fromMG who was down ther searching?


Interesting. I can't recall if anyone (maybe arubagirl) said that the McDonald's closed at 11pm. Can someone refresh my memory?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 12:24:09 PM
Hi all.. :D  :D


Title: Re: Natalee's Mom
Post by: DT on June 24, 2005, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
just shut up!  {{{edit:  Rob.. others have a right to their opinion, please don't abuse your fellow posters. Thank you! The Zoo Keeper}}}


i m getting sick and tired of ppl saying crap they have no sense saying.. there has not been one shred of evidence that natalee was a"loose" person.. NOT ONE... natalee is the VICTIM.....with ppl like this its no wonder ppl like m. jackson., O.J, Kobe, and a hell of allotta of others walk....placing blame on natalee is reprehensible.....you ppl should know better....i ve had enough of it already....


ROB i agree with you...it's hard to stay on track enough as it is without question that imply that this is the fault of NH.... I'm glad you are getting a vacation...in some ways I think you'd relax more on an island that you weren't so over-familiar with... You leave tomorrow rihjt??? I hope you have a good break. :!:[/quote]

Yes , Natalee is the victim but why would it matter if she was "loose" or not, sounds very sexist to me.
I believe Natalee went willingly, Joran was a cute kid. I would have done the same thing myself.
My goodness she was 18.[/quote]

It doesn't matter, but Rob, myself, and others feel like that it is an unfounded attack on the victim, since their is no evidence she acted like that.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:25:04 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Avatars and sig lines disabled for the afternoon looks like heavy traffic is building.


Thanks absolut!

Is it gonna be "bumper to bumper"? hee hee


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: golden on June 24, 2005, 12:25:09 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


NEVER!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Onnimus on June 24, 2005, 12:25:16 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


They will both keep quiet, thinking that she will never be found and they will walk, no evidence (THEY think). I think something will come up that WILL bust them.

edited for typo!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 12:25:22 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"


I think it's something bigger than we can imagine. I am still stuck on what Beth said last or didn't say I guess would be more correct. She knows way more than she can tell us which makes me believe when she uses the word kidnap, she really means it.
If that's the case, I think all these people know who has her and where she is pehaps.


Cali - This seems very likely...and would explain why pops just radiates fear...he fears for his life more than he fears being charged????  That also explains why lots of folks involved in this say there will be more arrests.

Ruben on Fox now - operating under assumption NH is still alive.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 24, 2005, 12:25:38 PM
I also watched the interview with the brother's Mom last night and I got the impression she knows about as much of her sons' actions as Mrs. VDS knows about Joren's...next to nothing.  Young men do not (normally) confide their actions to their Moms.....mine sure didn't....not until they were MUCH older and only then did they CONFESS!   to sneaking girls in the house, sneaking outta the gouse, taking the car, ....... The statement that Nalalee didn't say ONE word to them, does not IMO sound like the Natalee we have heard about and come to love......something is just NOT ringing true here for me anyway.  

I just feel that they (the brothers) KNOW what happened......the story about just covering for Joren has, IMO, worn thin.....I asked my sons IF this happened to them....would they have held to this cover up story.....each said NO WAY, UNLESS they were more deeply involved and then they would be covering their own behinds as well as Joren's  These brothers are not sitting in prison because they finally told the truth...I  feel the LE have something on on them...more than just covering for a friend.

I admore Beth and her family...but her statement last night about 'knowing' that Natalee was kidnapped has gnawed at me...and her hope that they didn't rape or kill her....can't put my finger on why exactly this gnaws away...but it does....anyone else have a feeling about those statements?

Hopefully the truth will come out and Beth can take Natalee home...and those that harmed her and those that particiapted in any way will be punished to the fillest extent of the law.

Thanks


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 12:25:50 PM
thanx DT.. i know of atleast two mcdonalds.. maybe three...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:25:56 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Hi all.. :D  :D


Hi Hannie!!!!!!!!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LemonDrop on June 24, 2005, 12:26:31 PM
Did I hear that right??? A "spokesman for the Aruban government" thinks Natalee is still alive??? on Fox News, just now???   :?:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: batmanCJ on June 24, 2005, 12:26:34 PM
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 12:26:44 PM
Quote
Interesting. I can't recall if anyone (maybe arubagirl) said that the McDonald's closed at 11pm. Can someone refresh my memory?

Arubagirl said that McDonalds closes at 1:00am.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TexasSugarfoot on June 24, 2005, 12:26:46 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!
 

ANGIE:  YOU JUST WONT LET GO OF THAT ONE!  it is a very relevant question and i have not seen an answer.  pls continue to keep asking as we have serious adhd on here with all that is coming at us.  not even a chance to read back!


I have seen this question asked five times on here and it has probably been asked a few times that I missed. I have never seen anyone answer. This makes me curious...Where did the original idea that she had medication came from? It also makes me curious if she did indeed have medication, why is nobody answering the question or discussing it?


Title: Maybe all lies
Post by: MominTN on June 24, 2005, 12:26:46 PM
If the police discover contradiction in a person's story then they probably assume they are lying.  If they tell one of the suspects that another suspect has said something different and then he changes his story, then obviously the first story was a lie.  If they have caught all 5 people arrested telling lies, they may think they were accomplices to the crime, because why else would they lie and continue to sit in jail?  If they lied about several stories, then perhaps they never took her to the beach.  Or perhaps they really did take her to the lighthouse and pushed her off.  Or perhaps they took her to Croes for drugs.  In any case, I'm sure Joran's dad told him to deny, deny, deny because of his age he will not receive much punishment especially without a body.  I think they are trying to break someone into telling what happened.  I do not think Joran will ever admit what he did on his own.  And I do not think the others will tell on him unless they are given immunity.  Of course how can anyone believe any of them?  Perhaps Joran will tell the truth if he thinks his dad has been arrested and will be prosecuted for Joran's crime.  Maybe the police are using the dad to force Joran to confess.  But if Joran does confess will he tell the truth or will he let his friends off even if they assisted.  I doubt they left her on the beach.  They would not tell where they left her because that would be where everyone would search, so I think they took her somewhere else.  Maybe to the Tattoo with Croes.  The security guard for Tattoo may be a friend with Croes and involved also.  Was the Tattoo for sale before Natalee was missing?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: RichinTx on June 24, 2005, 12:26:54 PM
Quote from: "sandy"
Something just popped into my mind - somewhere way back it was reported that when Joran went to scholl the next day he spent time in the woods (presumably on the school property or next door) - perhaps the Texas rangers should take their dogs in there.


Yeah, he went to school and then during recess he went into the woods, pulled Natalee out of his pocket and buried her.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 12:27:19 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


If a drug was slipped into NH's drink, that alone could constitute premediation.


OR IS IT PREMEDICATION?


That should read premeditation.  Unfortunately, it seems Joran didn't leave any room for mediation.


Title: MCDONALDS
Post by: flash on June 24, 2005, 12:27:24 PM
McDonalds wouldn't have to have been open for J's dad to pick him up there.


Title: Some interesting names
Post by: ChytownEd on June 24, 2005, 12:27:34 PM
Remember all the early speculation about a Skakelesque cover-up by the "well-connected, influential" van der Sloops and Kalpoes (both families relative newcomers to Aruba, and from all appearances only upper-middle class)?

They may be no more than incidental witnesses, but it looks to me like the Croes and Arends families (and wasn't Solognier the name of the uncle by marriage who spoke briefly with Greta VS last night?) have deeper roots in the community, and may well belong to the island's upper crust. Or not. But FYI:

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 12:27:40 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi
 VERY INTERESTING CANCON


Soory but catching up........

This post from way back has a possible place in this theory.

mehill10 Location: Gardendale,AL    Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:45 pm        
 
i saw this on riehl world view Posted on "The Troubling Puzzle" blog:

Quote
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared. I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant. Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious....... Posted by: samthebam | June 19, 2005 03:35 PM
interesting might explain why dad is being questioned

My question is: Could it have been Steve Croes who saw him (how would anyone from MB on the trip know him?) and provided this info to someone fromMG who was down ther searching?


Interesting. I can't recall if anyone (maybe arubagirl) said that the McDonald's closed at 11pm. Can someone refresh my memory?


I recall her saying the samething professor.. that McDonalds closes at 11...!!  Also IF he was at McDonalds was it ever proven he was inside?? Maybe he was out in the parking lot at 3 am??  Just a thought


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 12:27:49 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi
 VERY INTERESTING CANCON


Soory but catching up........

This post from way back has a possible place in this theory.

mehill10 Location: Gardendale,AL    Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:45 pm        
 
i saw this on riehl world view Posted on "The Troubling Puzzle" blog:

Quote
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared. I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant. Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious....... Posted by: samthebam | June 19, 2005 03:35 PM
interesting might explain why dad is being questioned

My question is: Could it have been Steve Croes who saw him (how would anyone from MB on the trip know him?) and provided this info to someone fromMG who was down ther searching?



as i recall Steve Croes went to the police the day before he was taken into custody- whether he had been contacted by police or of his volition, i don't remember. i'll see if i can find a link for it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: "writergal"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "NH"

Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


I'm not an attorney, but watched coverage of the Scott Peterson case.  Before Laci's body was even found, many criminal attorneys stated that he could be found guilty without it.



   In the United States, at least, it is possible to prosecute for murder without a body. This happened a little over 20 years ago in Massachusetts. William Douglas was tried for the murder of Robin Benedict. Robin's corpse was never located, but physical evidence (brain tissue and blood) was located in Douglas's car and home. At the last minute, Douglas copped a plea. But the point is, the state was able to make a case against him. It is a pretty unusual circumstance, though, and I don't know how Dutch/Aruban law would apply here.


There's one case I know of  in The Netherlands were that also happend. A drugsdealer killed his friend, he was arrested but the body of the victim was never found. However, the judge found him guilty of murder because the dealer bragged about it in a letter he wrote to another pal.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:29:39 PM
Quote from: "wwizard"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


I say they clam up out of FEAR.


eye think u r right! :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: westcoastguy on June 24, 2005, 12:30:02 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote
Interesting. I can't recall if anyone (maybe arubagirl) said that the McDonald's closed at 11pm. Can someone refresh my memory?

Arubagirl said that McDonalds closes at 1:00am.


Does it have a drive thru open late?  Or perhaps if PVDS was meeting Joran at McD's, was he seen in the parking lot???


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 12:30:06 PM
Quote from: "TexasSugarfoot"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!
 

ANGIE:  YOU JUST WONT LET GO OF THAT ONE!  it is a very relevant question and i have not seen an answer.  pls continue to keep asking as we have serious adhd on here with all that is coming at us.  not even a chance to read back!


I have seen this question asked five times on here and it has probably been asked a few times that I missed. I have never seen anyone answer. This makes me curious...Where did the original idea that she had medication came from? It also makes me curious if she did indeed have medication, why is nobody answering the question or discussing it?


I believe in the first Greta beth interveiw Beth said the medication was in her bag. No one has ever said what the medication is.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
I also watched the interview with the brother's Mom last night and I got the impression she knows about as much of her sons' actions as Mrs. VDS knows about Joren's...next to nothing.  Young men do not (normally) confide their actions to their Moms.....mine sure didn't....not until they were MUCH older and only then did they CONFESS!   to sneaking girls in the house, sneaking outta the gouse, taking the car, ....... The statement that Nalalee didn't say ONE word to them, does not IMO sound like the Natalee we have heard about and come to love......something is just NOT ringing true here for me anyway.  

I just feel that they (the brothers) KNOW what happened......the story about just covering for Joren has, IMO, worn thin.....I asked my sons IF this happened to them....would they have held to this cover up story.....each said NO WAY, UNLESS they were more deeply involved and then they would be covering their own behinds as well as Joren's  These brothers are not sitting in prison because they finally told the truth...I  feel the LE have something on on them...more than just covering for a friend.

I admore Beth and her family...but her statement last night about 'knowing' that Natalee was kidnapped has gnawed at me...and her hope that they didn't rape or kill her....can't put my finger on why exactly this gnaws away...but it does....anyone else have a feeling about those statements?

Hopefully the truth will come out and Beth can take Natalee home...and those that harmed her and those that particiapted in any way will be punished to the fillest extent of the law.

Thanks

I can believe that, the two boys are covering their butt, their mother is no fool if she listens to the media , they know everybody wants to blame Joran.
If one is ivolved , they all are, IMO


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 12:30:59 PM
Sorry  meant to write Arubagirl did say McDOnalds closed at 1 and not 11.. slip of the keyboard..Couldnt edit it fast enough


Title: RADIO
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:31:21 PM
RADIO IS RUNNING O'REILLY


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Professor on June 24, 2005, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "NH"

Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


I'm not an attorney, but watched coverage of the Scott Peterson case.  Before Laci's body was even found, many criminal attorneys stated that he could be found guilty without it.


You are indeed correct. Modesto was already in the process of getting an arrest warrant for Snott. They had enogh evidence already. Then came the bodies washing up, this was confirmed in Catherine Criers book on the case, as well as the People mag interview w/ the prosecutors, detectives etc. They had enogh w/o the body...

I know Laci's case up, down, backwards & fowards


You can also look up the case of Carrie Culberson.  No body was ever found and no physical evidence that she was dead.  There were even people who testified at trial that they had seen the missing woman.  But the jury believed from circumstancial evidence that her boyfriend had murdered her and he is sitting in prison as we speak.  He still claims that Carrie ran away.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 12:31:49 PM
Quote from: "RichinTx"
Quote from: "sandy"
Something just popped into my mind - somewhere way back it was reported that when Joran went to scholl the next day he spent time in the woods (presumably on the school property or next door) - perhaps the Texas rangers should take their dogs in there.


Yeah, he went to school and then during recess he went into the woods, pulled Natalee out of his pocket and buried her.


No, I'm thinking he left Natalee home in his sock drawer {rolling my eyes} but had something of hers with him that he conveniently discarded


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 12:32:16 PM
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi
 VERY INTERESTING CANCON


Soory but catching up........

This post from way back has a possible place in this theory.

mehill10 Location: Gardendale,AL    Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:45 pm        
 
i saw this on riehl world view Posted on "The Troubling Puzzle" blog:

Quote
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared. I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant. Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious....... Posted by: samthebam | June 19, 2005 03:35 PM
interesting might explain why dad is being questioned

My question is: Could it have been Steve Croes who saw him (how would anyone from MB on the trip know him?) and provided this info to someone fromMG who was down ther searching?



as i recall Steve Croes went to the police the day before he was taken into custody- whether he had been contacted by police or of his volition, i don't remember. i'll see if i can find a link for it.


Is there a chance this might fit in the building theory? What about report on Riehl that a fisherman's hut broken into, taken was ropes, tape, and an anchor????


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: air23ac on June 24, 2005, 12:32:52 PM
maybe natalee didn't say anything to the 2 brothers(as mother kalpoe stated) because she was drugged up or under a non-alcohol influence..........perhaps joren was having a good time and natalee thought he was nice, she had a drink w/him.......then he slipped her some kinda drug.........he then calls the kalpoe brothers and says he needs a lift ASAP because he knows the drug effects will soon set in, so while she is coherent he wants to get her out of c&c's...........by the time she is in the car she waves goodbye to her friends and also seems fine...then shortly after she starts to fade from the drugs, hence the lack of conversation


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 12:34:01 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


Maybe he was out in the parking lot??


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:34:02 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Sorry  meant to write Arubagirl did say McDOnalds closed at 1 and not 11.. slip of the keyboard..Couldnt edit it fast enough


what were MB students who saw Paulus
doing by mc D's @ 3:30 am if it is closed...
also there are 3 mcdonalds on island i think aruba girl said.

sorry..i am probably confused.  per usual.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: momto5 on June 24, 2005, 12:34:09 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?

I believe the implication would be that he was up to no good having no reason to be at mcdonalds at 3am. I also dont think this story has been verified at all. You know if you play telephone long enough times tend to change. We know he already admitted to being at mcdonalds at 11, maybe with the rumor mill floating around it somehow changed to 3am. Who knows, maybe its true and their drive thru is 24/7 like ours and he wanted a cheeseburger.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"


I think it's something bigger than we can imagine. I am still stuck on what Beth said last or didn't say I guess would be more correct. She knows way more than she can tell us which makes me believe when she uses the word kidnap, she really means it.
If that's the case, I think all these people know who has her and where she is pehaps.


Cali - This seems very likely...and would explain why pops just radiates fear...he fears for his life more than he fears being charged????  That also explains why lots of folks involved in this say there will be more arrests.

Ruben on Fox now - operating under assumption NH is still alive.


See, I don't know if it's just that because of where I live, no thought or idea of that is so "out there". Bodies here, disappear more than reported and they actually go unreported for a very good reason.

I don't know how jail time works there, but I do one thing, you get killed for being a rat. They threaten your you with your family, etc etc.

All I know is Natalee's missing. I do not believe her dead because even if the whole entire Molly Maid Corporation came to clean up the scene, they can still find trace amounts of blood etc etc.

I just really think, as Beth has stated, they are the key to finding her daughter. I tend to read into her words since she can not comment but I have said before, Beth chooses her words VERY CAREFULLY. Almost, like speaking in code.

They all know something but a matter of why they won't talk. At any time, ONE person could pin this on anyone and sing to save their butt, since that hasn't been the case..there seem to be some really good higher force to make them shut up.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "cancon"
well Peeps, here is my two cents for the day and then I have to be good and work, and leave this sad story until Greta at 10:00 pm tonight

I was watching re runs of the Fox coverage late last night and something the editor of Diario said is making me think this story is running in a more heinous direction, I had a "ah ha" moment

Josee said to Alan Colmes that the reason they hauled in Paul is that there are large contradictions between Joran's and Paul's story, he put it, there is something very wrong going on between the father and the son

now add to this the statement by Ms. Croes, our favourite spokesperson that Mr. VDS is a suspect in the disappearance not the cover up

add to this it's been verified that Joran now admits he was alone with Natalee on that beach

which is what the Kalpoe brothers have been saying for quite some time now, add to this you have Joran saying Deepak picked him up then Satish picked him up, come on, surely you can remember which brother picked you up, and if the father is involved it explains why Joran keeps changing his story

add to this some curious things spoken by Beth and Jug - Beth has been reported to have said she suspected Paul even before she met him, now I am assuming she means that night of May 31st and I believe that what happened was that Beth and Jug were at the Holiday Inn Casino getting information, and I believe they viewed or certainly have since viewed the casino videotape and I think Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino the same time as Joran AND Natalee

I think Mrs. VDS's story that her husband was sound asleep after he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11:00 pm are all lies - she's been told lies by her husband and son

I think Mr. VDS was the one Joran called for help

I think Mr. VDS made up the alibi and either he and/or Joran were somehow able to get the boys on side

don't forget, the Kalpoe boys may have not been told exactly what happened and you tend to give your friend the benefit of the doubt, and given who Joran's dad is, they also may have figured he knows what he is talking about, because I hear they admit they gave Joran cover, they are young, you make stupid judgments at that age

the only thing is I don't know where to fit in Croes per se, I find it interesting that even Jug and Beth are confused as where he fits in and they clearly have more information than we do and they've been on the mark on other areas

I also have to wonder if they have forensic results back that they are not disclosing

now I may just be proven wrong on the brothers, they will be in enough trouble for providing the false alibi
 VERY INTERESTING CANCON


Soory but catching up........

This post from way back has a possible place in this theory.

mehill10 Location: Gardendale,AL    Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:45 pm        
 
i saw this on riehl world view Posted on "The Troubling Puzzle" blog:

Quote
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared. I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant. Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious....... Posted by: samthebam | June 19, 2005 03:35 PM
interesting might explain why dad is being questioned

My question is: Could it have been Steve Croes who saw him (how would anyone from MB on the trip know him?) and provided this info to someone fromMG who was down ther searching?



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

Croes, who works as a party boat disk jockey, said he was contacted by police Thursday night and went to the station voluntarily to give a statement, said his employer, Marcus Wiggins.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: "LemonDrop"
Did I hear that right??? A "spokesman for the Aruban government" thinks Natalee is still alive??? on Fox News, just now???   :?:


yes, several from the government have had that story.  They keep saying she ran away and swam to Venezulua.   (scarcasm, of course)

I have heard to many report by Arubans that they have such a fabulous island that so many just run away so they can stay there.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?

I believe the implication would be that he was up to no good having no reason to be at mcdonalds at 3am. I also dont think this story has been verified at all. You know if you play telephone long enough times tend to change. We know he already admitted to being at mcdonalds at 11, maybe with the rumor mill floating around it somehow changed to 3am. Who knows, maybe its true and their drive thru is 24/7 like ours and he wanted a cheeseburger.


I AGREE>>>MC"D"S not official/hersay


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 12:36:30 PM
I've also noticed on Riehl, in font that has progressively gotten larger and bolder and now today changed to red......New Content Posts Below.....which is immediately followed by a reward amount that has also gotten progressively larger. Is that a not so subliminal subliminal that people like us wouldn't see, but is seen daily by whom it is actually targeting.  ??????   Anyone else notice that? Or is my conspiracy radar adjusted too finely?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: may on June 24, 2005, 12:36:33 PM
Quote from: "dragonfly"

Hello May.  Glad you finally decided to cross over to the "other side".  Post away!!   :D


thanks, dragonfly! with all i have been reading (and reading and reading) and seeing on tv for the last 3 weeks, it has been hard at times not to be able to post!

May


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: SunnyinTX on June 24, 2005, 12:37:37 PM
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


My fear is they will all remain silent and unless Natalee is found they will all walk....I feel so much time passed between the time Natalee went missiang and the time that they finally got around to the forensic aspect of the case...too much was lost.

BTW...some  are referring to Tx Equusearch as cowboys....and they are anything BUT...they are highly trained professionals and take their service seriously....and I pray THEY will find Natalee.

Thanks


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "NH"

Actually, it is impossible (at least in the US). The prosecution must first prove that a murder has been committed. If there is no body and no evidence that conclusivly indicates that someone is indeed dead, then there can be no mudrer charge.


I'm not an attorney, but watched coverage of the Scott Peterson case.  Before Laci's body was even found, many criminal attorneys stated that he could be found guilty without it.


You are indeed correct. Modesto was already in the process of getting an arrest warrant for Snott. They had enogh evidence already. Then came the bodies washing up, this was confirmed in Catherine Criers book on the case, as well as the People mag interview w/ the prosecutors, detectives etc. They had enogh w/o the body...

I know Laci's case up, down, backwards & fowards


You can also look up the case of Carrie Culberson.  No body was ever found and no physical evidence that she was dead.  There were even people who testified at trial that they had seen the missing woman.  But the jury believed from circumstancial evidence that her boyfriend had murdered her and he is sitting in prison as we speak.  He still claims that Carrie ran away.

Amazing and we can't bring justice for Jessica Lunsford.

::::thinking of moving::: Anyone know the real estate in Iceland? I would think it too cold to commit crime there? lol


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:37:47 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


we shouldn't except there is involvement of mikkie dee. the mb romor does not even have a date.  we think we know joren called his dad to pick him up at mikie dee at 11 on sunday nite  (11 is house rule too).  he had been hanging out at the hotels and may have gone to the concert.   maybe he ate there (mom was not home to cook)


Title: Re: MCDONALDS
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: "flash"
McDonalds wouldn't have to have been open for J's dad to pick him up there.


I would assume that his dad could have picked him up there whether it was closed or not.  May have just been a "meeting" place" as they are saying it was at 11.  If his dad picked him up there at 11 for a ride home, he could have easily done it at 1:00, he just couldn't have picked himself up a Big Mac at the same time.


Title: judge napolitano on radio
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:38:37 PM
fm top 95.1 aruba


Title: Greta
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 12:39:03 PM
I usually just lurk, but something needs to be said. If the main objective here is concern for finding Natalee, then I don't care how they go about it. FOX just reported from the official in Aruba that daddy VDS could be questioned because of contradictory statements made to the media and the police. Well, HELLO, who in the media got an interview with him? So, I say GO GRETA, if that is what tripped him up.
Just my opinion, go ahead, feel free to attack me!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 12:39:36 PM
Quote from: "MissyRose"
nancy_drew,

I think we are on the same page. I agree with you about Joran.

I just think the truth needs to come out all together. Drugs, Drinking, sex, kidnapping. Whatever it is. It doesn't matter if they were good kids or bad. Natalee is missing and Joran has information. THE TRUTH!


One more comment about kids and drugs/alcohol.
In my experience as a parent, times have changed in terms of who indulges in drugs and alcohol.  When I was in high school it was the fringe  high risk kids who were using. Sure we tried drinking here and there...but, the real druggies weren't the good students, etc.  Things are sadly far different these days. Drugs and alcohol have become part of our kids culture.

My eldest son, who is 26 experimented in high school with drugs and alcohol...not alot...but, he did it. Within a couple years out of high school he lost two friends to drug related deaths...one a gifted engineering student who had won awards for his brilliant designs for handicapped...the other was also a great kid going to an ivy league school...chosen freshman of the year...from a great family...father a dr., mother a minister...blah...blah...blah..

These deaths changed my son's life overnight.  Since then he'll have a beer once in awhile...but, sadly learned a lesson through great loss.

His younger sister refused to do drugs or drink in high school...she was popular and a good student...but, on weekends she was totally alone. Since most of the kids at her school spent their weekends binge drinking and smoking pot, she didn't attend.  It was the worst exile for her throughout high school. Very painful. Sometimes we forget the pressure on kids who don't indulge go through. In college she was dorm head and routinely sent kids to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. One died as a freshman.

Good kids are involved in drugs and alcohol...that's all there is to it. I don't condone it...but it's reality.  I can't say that's the case with Natalee.  And, whether she did or didn't isn't relevant in this case...at least right now.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: writergal on June 24, 2005, 12:40:04 PM
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 12:40:07 PM
quote="LemonDrop"]Did I hear that right??? A "spokesman for the Aruban government" thinks Natalee is still alive??? on Fox News, just now???   :?:[/quote]

Well, you have to consider the context - it's really nothing new.  Ruben Trappenberg, when asked if he thought NH was still alive, said they are operating under that premise....something to that effect.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Kkial on June 24, 2005, 12:40:23 PM
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Could still be McDees.....probably not there to eat!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: goon squad on June 24, 2005, 12:40:27 PM
<<this is from evening reading ... and there is an interview at a fund raising barbecue where a kid named beau tells how he broke it up. this needs to go in the timeline, paused outside bar to have a scuffle with natalees friend before leaving with natalee. then deepak said they stopped them on the road and natalee said she wanted to proceed with them instead of joining her mb friends aruba yahoo!>>

I didn't see specification that this scuffle occurred outside of the bar when they left.  In fact, the quotes say that it occurred inside the bar.

If you're trying to fit this scuffle into Deepak's story (the one that ends with a significant lie), then it has to have occurred in an fairly tight time window (around 30 minutes, maybe less).  You've got the three arriving, buying drinks, Deepak noticing Natalee, Deepak having a conversation, Deepak losing sight of everyone else, Deepak leaving, Deepak waiting in car for ten minutes.  

Keep in mind that Deepak's story doesn't mention the scuffle.  If he really didn't know about it, that would suggest that Satish didn't either, which would, in turn, suggest that Joran and Satish were separated from each other (as well as Natalee) at the time that they were separated from Deepak.  So everybody separates, then Joran, Satish, and Natalee all meet up and some point, and arrive at Deepak's car.  Again, all within a tight time window.  That is, assuming that the story (the one that ends with a significant lie) is accurate about the time window.

Of course, the details of the scuffle - whether it occurred 5/29 PM-5/30 AM or earlier -  could have been deliberately omitted from Deepak's story.  I think that would be a good strategic move.  I don't see why "Mountain Brook vs. Joran" is being brought up so freely in arguments for Joran's limited culpability.  Seems to me that it gives Joran motive.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: "may"
Quote from: "dragonfly"

Hello May.  Glad you finally decided to cross over to the "other side".  Post away!!   :D


thanks, dragonfly! with all i have been reading (and reading and reading) and seeing on tv for the last 3 weeks, it has been hard at times not to be able to post!

May


Don't hold back May.  No one else does!!!  lol.  Everyone's input is welcome here, even if it doesn't seem like it at times.  I think sometimes we all get tired and frustrated with the lack of news and sometimes that makes us all a little moody, but for the most part we have good news and good debates.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I've also noticed on Riehl, in font that has progressively gotten larger and bolder and now today changed to red......New Content Posts Below.....which is immediately followed by a reward amount that has also gotten progressively larger. Is that a not so subliminal subliminal that people like us wouldn't see, but is seen daily by whom it is actually targeting.  ??????   Anyone else notice that? Or is my conspiracy radar adjusted too finely?


YooHoo..............

Can I get a main monkey comment. I know I'm not in the monkey hub, but I do work hard and will work harder if fed. LOL


Title: Re: MCDONALDS
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:41:28 PM
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "flash"
McDonalds wouldn't have to have been open for J's dad to pick him up there.


I would assume that his dad could have picked him up there whether it was closed or not.  May have just been a "meeting" place" as they are saying it was at 11.  If his dad picked him up there at 11 for a ride home, he could have easily done it at 1:00, he just couldn't have picked himself up a Big Mac at the same time.


Well, we know he could have called Deepak because he didn't get off work till 11:30 and Satish picked him up from work....

anyone see the interview wtih thier mom, Nadira? Intersting how she gave a good timeline leading up to CnC


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wwizard on June 24, 2005, 12:41:29 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "wwizard"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
QUESTION TO ALL MY MONKEY SLEUTHS

Will Papa save Joran and confess or will Joran save Papa & confess or will they both keep quiet hoping no body is found...

confess meaning WHATEVER they know, and they KNOW SOMETHING!!


I say they clam up out of FEAR.


eye think u r right! :lol:


buenos dias FOM como esta, que pasa ese


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 12:41:35 PM
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


im also very confused by this....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: monkeysMOO on June 24, 2005, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "monkeysMOO"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"

ROB...being part decap is sure a sign to all...how "bout being left for dead in an old GOVERNMENT cemetary???


I find it interesting that the partially decapitated body was found on the Saturday that Paul Van der Sloot was first being questioned by LE.  I didn't know it was a government cemetery, but if that's the case then IMO that could make the coincidence of dates even more significant.

I'm still not sure what, if any, significance that body has to the NH case.  It will be interesting to get the scoop on PVDS once things in this case have been solidified one way or the other.  I imagine if PVDS is a corrupt official on the take, that point will come to light in all of this investigation.


 :?: Maybe this guy was about to turn on Paulus?  To try to save Natalie??


Could be.  I was thinking since it's a small police station, maybe someone figured PVDS would hear about the discovery of the body during his questioning.  Someone watching PVDS could have decided to send a clear signal when they saw PVDS go in for questioning by police.  Or, if PVDS was a corrupt official, maybe he notified his contacts ahead of time that he would be going in for questioning and the contacts took action to make sure he would remember the consequences of talking.

PVDS is the most curious figure in all of this for me... there seems to be much more than meets they eye with this guy, and there are some apparent contradictions in the way he lives his life vs. his career in the legal profession.  (E.G., PVDS referred to himself as a judge, yet he knowingly and repeatedly let Joran break the law by driving and gambling underage?).  I'm not sure whether to believe this is as simple as PVDS protecting his son, or whether PVDS played an active role as regards NH.  Certainly PVDS had a lot to lose, and therefore a lot to gain by hiding what happened to her.  Entirely seperate from that possibility, given his behavior and attitude I find myself wondering just how ethical this guy is, and whether his apparent lapse in ethics translates into corruption on the job.  It seems so stupid, to have such a privileged life and jeopardize it all through corruption, but I guess that's the downfall of many a criminal.  Time will tell if this is the case with PVDS.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Kkial on June 24, 2005, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: "TexasSugarfoot"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!
 

ANGIE:  YOU JUST WONT LET GO OF THAT ONE!  it is a very relevant question and i have not seen an answer.  pls continue to keep asking as we have serious adhd on here with all that is coming at us.  not even a chance to read back!


I have seen this question asked five times on here and it has probably been asked a few times that I missed. I have never seen anyone answer. This makes me curious...Where did the original idea that she had medication came from? It also makes me curious if she did indeed have medication, why is nobody answering the question or discussing it?


Beth mentioned it in one of her interviews...She was saying that everything ws intact in her room,,,ie  her medication,,,,asthma??


Title: Drugs
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 12:42:11 PM
Nancy Drew, from what you wrote, we have ALOT in common with our kids. My youngest will not touch anything because of what she saw her brothers do!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I've also noticed on Riehl, in font that has progressively gotten larger and bolder and now today changed to red......New Content Posts Below.....which is immediately followed by a reward amount that has also gotten progressively larger. Is that a not so subliminal subliminal that people like us wouldn't see, but is seen daily by whom it is actually targeting.  ??????   Anyone else notice that? Or is my conspiracy radar adjusted too finely?


 very finely.  we are getting the cash together be patient.  however, i think the twittys could raise the money immediately if they wanted to from alabama friends and then pay it back from collections.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 12:42:31 PM
Quote from: "kkial"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Could still be McDees.....probably not there to eat!


Since this was a student from MBHS saying this - how did the students get around the island??   Were these students in a rented car, in a taxi, or what?  How would they have occasion to be cruising by a MD's at that hour anyway?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I've also noticed on Riehl, in font that has progressively gotten larger and bolder and now today changed to red......New Content Posts Below.....which is immediately followed by a reward amount that has also gotten progressively larger. Is that a not so subliminal subliminal that people like us wouldn't see, but is seen daily by whom it is actually targeting.  ??????   Anyone else notice that? Or is my conspiracy radar adjusted too finely?


YooHoo..............

Can I get a main monkey comment. I know I'm not in the monkey hub, but I do work hard and will work harder if fed. LOL

I caught that Paula. That is why I asked about insurance because some policies pay for ransom.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I've also noticed on Riehl, in font that has progressively gotten larger and bolder and now today changed to red......New Content Posts Below.....which is immediately followed by a reward amount that has also gotten progressively larger. Is that a not so subliminal subliminal that people like us wouldn't see, but is seen daily by whom it is actually targeting.  ??????   Anyone else notice that? Or is my conspiracy radar adjusted too finely?


 very finely.  we are getting the cash together be patient.  however, i think the twittys could raise the money immediately if they wanted to from alabama friends and then pay it back from collections.


Thanks, Iquitos. I'm thinking that it's directed to someone, dangling as a type of bonus in addition to whatever might be negotiated.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: arrabba on June 24, 2005, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


Perhaps he was in the parking lot at McDonalds.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 12:44:19 PM
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


It's the law vs. the spokespersons opinion. To suspect someone doesn't neccecarily mean (did I spell that correct) that he did it.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I've also noticed on Riehl, in font that has progressively gotten larger and bolder and now today changed to red......New Content Posts Below.....which is immediately followed by a reward amount that has also gotten progressively larger. Is that a not so subliminal subliminal that people like us wouldn't see, but is seen daily by whom it is actually targeting.  ??????   Anyone else notice that? Or is my conspiracy radar adjusted too finely?


YooHoo..............

Can I get a main monkey comment. I know I'm not in the monkey hub, but I do work hard and will work harder if fed. LOL

I caught that Paula. That is why I asked about insurance because some policies pay for ransom.



Cali,
I know for a fact..it's possible to tap into a life insurance policy in cases like this. Their thinking is hey, if we pay partial benefit for safe return, it's less than paying full benefit for not so safe return. It happens.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


that seems to be this case in a nutshell  :x


Title: Re: judge napolitano on radio
Post by: Teo on June 24, 2005, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
fm top 95.1 aruba

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

For those who can understand papiamento or just want lo listen (because sometimes they are commenting in english or passing certains parts of FOX news in english) or you just want to try some of the other radios of Aruba to see if one of them are transmitting in english..

Go to www.arubadag.com and in the upperright menu you can choose 7 arubian radiostatiosn to listen LIVE or chosse TeleAruba to watch arubian television (most of the time it would be better to choose one of the 7 arubian radios...I personnaly recommend Top 95.)

So one more time... www.arubadag.com and then make a choice which arubian radio you want to listen.

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

Teo


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


we shouldn't except there is involvement of mikkie dee. the mb romor does not even have a date.  we think we know joren called his dad to pick him up at mikie dee at 11 on sunday nite  (11 is house rule too).  he had been hanging out at the hotels and may have gone to the concert.   maybe he ate there (mom was not home to cook)


Thanx...I thought it was a cheesy rumor to begin with Paulus @ 3am
much like Nat going for a swim...
imho


Title: Re: MCDONALDS
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:47:20 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "flash"
McDonalds wouldn't have to have been open for J's dad to pick him up there.


I would assume that his dad could have picked him up there whether it was closed or not.  May have just been a "meeting" place" as they are saying it was at 11.  If his dad picked him up there at 11 for a ride home, he could have easily done it at 1:00, he just couldn't have picked himself up a Big Mac at the same time.


Well, we know he could have called Deepak because he didn't get off work till 11:30 and Satish picked him up from work....

anyone see the interview wtih thier mom, Nadira? Intersting how she gave a good timeline leading up to CnC
 maybe he did call deepak and went straight to the club.  however the story that he was home and then sneaked out while dad was sound asleep is also credible.  from where do we know paul picked him up, anita?  any other confirmation?


Title: Re: judge napolitano on radio
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fm top 95.1 aruba

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

For those who can understand papiamento or just want lo listen (because sometimes they are commenting in english or passing certains parts of FOX news in english) or you just want to try some of the other radios of Aruba to see if one of them are transmitting in english..

Go to www.arubadag.com and in the upperright menu you can choose 7 arubian radiostatiosn to listen LIVE or chosse TeleAruba to watch arubian television (most of the time it would be better to choose one of the 7 arubian radios...I personnaly recommend Top 95.)

So one more time... www.arubadag.com and then make a choice which arubian radio you want to listen.


 :arrow: TEO THANX!!!   :?:
WHICH STATION IS 101 on dag, if you know????

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

Teo


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CancunMole on June 24, 2005, 12:48:38 PM
Prof: ArubaGirl told us McD's close at 1 AM. There are 2, one up by the hotels, it is near the main middle road opposite the HYatt/Allegro which are right on the beach (if you can picture that from the map), the 2nd is downtown.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: joebob on June 24, 2005, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: "kkial"
Quote from: "TexasSugarfoot"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!
 

ANGIE:  YOU JUST WONT LET GO OF THAT ONE!  it is a very relevant question and i have not seen an answer.  pls continue to keep asking as we have serious adhd on here with all that is coming at us.  not even a chance to read back!


I have seen this question asked five times on here and it has probably been asked a few times that I missed. I have never seen anyone answer. This makes me curious...Where did the original idea that she had medication came from? It also makes me curious if she did indeed have medication, why is nobody answering the question or discussing it?


Beth mentioned it in one of her interviews...She was saying that everything ws intact in her room,,,ie  her medication,,,,asthma??


Asthma? Is that speculation?


Title: Re: MCDONALDS
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:49:22 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "flash"
McDonalds wouldn't have to have been open for J's dad to pick him up there.


I would assume that his dad could have picked him up there whether it was closed or not.  May have just been a "meeting" place" as they are saying it was at 11.  If his dad picked him up there at 11 for a ride home, he could have easily done it at 1:00, he just couldn't have picked himself up a Big Mac at the same time.


Well, we know he could have called Deepak because he didn't get off work till 11:30 and Satish picked him up from work....

anyone see the interview wtih thier mom, Nadira? Intersting how she gave a good timeline leading up to CnC
 maybe he did call deepak and went straight to the club.  however the story that he was home and then sneaked out while dad was sound asleep is also credible.  from where do we know paul picked him up, anita?  any other confirmation?


Anita stated that Paulus picked Joran up from Mickie D's at 11 and brought him home. After that, she said Joran stated to her that he snuck out.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:49:37 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Prof: ArubaGirl told us McD's close at 1 AM. There are 2, one up by the hotels, it is near the main middle road opposite the HYatt/Allegro which are right on the beach (if you can picture that from the map), the 2nd is downtown.


 :arrow: On way to Lorenzoes/near it anyway


Title: avds
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 12:49:48 PM
did anyone notice two different statments for anita vds?
she said at one point that she was in holland, then said she could nt sleep(the night natalee went missing), bc joran was nt home... did i hear that correctly, or am i imagining it?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandraK on June 24, 2005, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


we shouldn't except there is involvement of mikkie dee. the mb romor does not even have a date.  we think we know joren called his dad to pick him up at mikie dee at 11 on sunday nite  (11 is house rule too).  he had been hanging out at the hotels and may have gone to the concert.   maybe he ate there (mom was not home to cook)

  what were the Students Doing @McD's@3AM if it's closed??
 it's to  far to walk ,  the Taxi Mon Know it's Closed .


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BK on June 24, 2005, 12:50:19 PM
Writergal--I believe that all of the suspects are held on premeditated murder, and manslaughter, and kidnapping--That's what they hold them for because they don't know what happened yet--then when they find out what actually happened they will Charge them with the appropriate crime.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 12:50:26 PM
I usually just lurk, but something needs to be said. If the main objective here is concern for finding Natalee, then I don't care how they go about it. FOX just reported from the official in Aruba that daddy VDS could be questioned because of contradictory statements made to the media and the police. Well, HELLO, who in the media got an interview with him? So, I say GO GRETA, if that is what tripped him up.
Just my opinion, go ahead, feel free to attack me!  :D


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I've also noticed on Riehl, in font that has progressively gotten larger and bolder and now today changed to red......New Content Posts Below.....which is immediately followed by a reward amount that has also gotten progressively larger. Is that a not so subliminal subliminal that people like us wouldn't see, but is seen daily by whom it is actually targeting.  ??????   Anyone else notice that? Or is my conspiracy radar adjusted too finely?


YooHoo..............

Can I get a main monkey comment. I know I'm not in the monkey hub, but I do work hard and will work harder if fed. LOL

I think he's just seeing higher volume of new readers, just as we are.  I don't see it as a "message" of any kind. IMO


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: writergal on June 24, 2005, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


It's the law vs. the spokespersons opinion. To suspect someone doesn't neccecarily mean (did I spell that correct) that he did it.



  No, that's true. But there must be some good basis for the suspicion. Premeditated murder is a very serious charge. The contradictions are confusing: shouldn't the spokespeople be on the same page? That is, if they're representing law enforcement?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: "mojo"
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


that seems to be this case in a nutshell  :x


If anyone is interested in the "Natalee is Alive" theory...go listen to Beth Twitty's interview with Colmes on Fox last night!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Professor on June 24, 2005, 12:50:50 PM
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


Title: Re: avds
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:50:50 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
did anyone notice two different statments for anita vds?
she said at one point that she was in holland, then said she could nt sleep(the night natalee went missing), bc joran was nt home... did i hear that correctly, or am i imagining it?


Rob she was in Holland. She was saying she can't sleep since Joran has been gone aka in jail.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: gaijin on June 24, 2005, 12:51:47 PM
Not to suggest that I dont appreciate our current on line Arubian posters, but does anyone know why we seem to have lost AmericaninAruba and NativeLingo? Seems like its going on a week now. Not on in the evenings either.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: arrabba on June 24, 2005, 12:52:11 PM
Quote from: "writergal"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


It's the law vs. the spokespersons opinion. To suspect someone doesn't neccecarily mean (did I spell that correct) that he did it.



  No, that's true. But there must be some good basis for the suspicion. Premeditated murder is a very serious charge. The contradictions are confusing: shouldn't the spokespeople be on the same page? That is, if they're representing law enforcement?


Why would someone want to kill Natalee Holloway?


Title: Re: judge napolitano on radio
Post by: Teo on June 24, 2005, 12:52:16 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Teo"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fm top 95.1 aruba

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

For those who can understand papiamento or just want lo listen (because sometimes they are commenting in english or passing certains parts of FOX news in english) or you just want to try some of the other radios of Aruba to see if one of them are transmitting in english..

Go to www.arubadag.com and in the upperright menu you can choose 7 arubian radiostatiosn to listen LIVE or chosse TeleAruba to watch arubian television (most of the time it would be better to choose one of the 7 arubian radios...I personnaly recommend Top 95.)

So one more time... www.arubadag.com and then make a choice which arubian radio you want to listen.


 :arrow: TEO THANX!!!   :?:
WHICH STATION IS 101 on dag, if you know????

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

Teo


Hi Friend of monkey

as far as I know 101 is a DJ on Top 95.

as far as I know 101 is NOT a radiostation. If I am mistaken som e arubian must correct me now.

Hope this information was helpfull.

Teo


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: "gaijin"
Not to suggest that I dont appreciate our current on line Arubian posters, but does anyone know why we seem to have lost AmericaninAruba and NativeLingo? Seems like its going on a week now. Not on in the evenings either.


NativeLingo is on vacation.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:53:04 PM
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?
 well, since natalee is missing, the prosecution has to assume the worst and justify holding the suspects by accusing them of the worst imaginable crimes in the case (accessory to murder, manslaughter, kidnapping).  notice there is no rape charge for example, no abandonment charge.  my feeling is that the prosecutor is fishing.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 12:53:22 PM
Quote from: "gaijin"
Not to suggest that I dont appreciate our current on line Arubian posters, but does anyone know why we seem to have lost AmericaninAruba and NativeLingo? Seems like its going on a week now. Not on in the evenings either.

Arubagirl said last night that NativeLingo was on vacation.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: gaijin on June 24, 2005, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..


Title: TX EquuSearch Update
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 12:53:49 PM
TX EquuSearch Update


The remainder of the group of 17 team members will be in the air at 1:30PM CDT (less than 2 hours from now).  They're flying commercial to Aruba to join Tim Miller and his two associates there now.  

The three cadaver dogs are on this flight.

Among the group going today are seven divers, and it is rumored that Gene Ralston, a side-scan sonar operator who worked some of the San Francisco Bay searches for Laci Peterson, will also join the TES team.

A dozen NBA and NFL basketball and football stars are planning to fly down to Aruba in coming days to highlight the TES efforts on Natalee's behalf.  No names have been released yet, but I'll let y'all know what I hear.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: gaijin on June 24, 2005, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Not to suggest that I dont appreciate our current on line Arubian posters, but does anyone know why we seem to have lost AmericaninAruba and NativeLingo? Seems like its going on a week now. Not on in the evenings either.


NativeLingo is on vacation.


Ahh, OK. TKS. I was concerned.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: "gaijin"
Not to suggest that I dont appreciate our current on line Arubian posters, but does anyone know why we seem to have lost AmericaninAruba and NativeLingo? Seems like its going on a week now. Not on in the evenings either.


B-B-Q got  too hot!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:55:08 PM
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..

It turned out not to be blood. That's why you haven't heard anything more.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 12:55:20 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?
 well, since natalee is missing, the prosecution has to assume the worst and justify holding the suspects by accusing them of the worst imaginable crimes in the case (accessory to murder, manslaughter, kidnapping).  notice there is no rape charge for example, no abandonment charge.  my feeling is that the prosecutor is fishing.


Yes and I think they may be reading our message boards too much!!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CancunMole on June 24, 2005, 12:55:29 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


That post supposedly came from someone in MB. My point: was it to put PVdS at that location at 3 AM the morning NH went missing? To imply that PVdS was picking up Joran or something else?

I think it goes to what CaliGirl is saying about the kidnap and there being more....

Something I mentioned early this AM, does anyoone know anything about the cases PVdS has ruled on lately? Possible someone watching the kid to set him up to get back at the Judge?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 12:55:30 PM
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..


Saw tha as well - but also heard a report that something went for testing to Virginia


Title: Re: judge napolitano on radio
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: "Teo"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Teo"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fm top 95.1 aruba

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

For those who can understand papiamento or just want lo listen (because sometimes they are commenting in english or passing certains parts of FOX news in english) or you just want to try some of the other radios of Aruba to see if one of them are transmitting in english..

Go to www.arubadag.com and in the upperright menu you can choose 7 arubian radiostatiosn to listen LIVE or chosse TeleAruba to watch arubian television (most of the time it would be better to choose one of the 7 arubian radios...I personnaly recommend Top 95.)

So one more time... www.arubadag.com and then make a choice which arubian radio you want to listen.


 :arrow: TEO THANX!!!   :?:
WHICH STATION IS 101 on dag, if you know????

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

Teo


Hi Friend of monkey

as far as I know 101 is a DJ on Top 95.

as far as I know 101 is NOT a radiostation. If I am mistaken som e arubian must correct me now.

Hope this information was helpfull.

Teo


thanks...I thought on 95 they mentioned more news on 101
my mistako...glad u r still here Teo..got to talk to your wife last week??
she sounds / types nice. :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 12:57:20 PM
afternoon monkeys!!! Anyone know when eqquesearch will actually start their search, and when we will know something? Will thay announce it when they do actually begin searching? This is when i think things will get really good...God I hope they can help...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: gaijin on June 24, 2005, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..

It turned out not to be blood. That's why you haven't heard anything more.


No, not from the brothers car. This was after and reffered specfically to one of the parents cars. And was sent to the Netherlands, not the U.S..
I think I saw a FOX report on this last week sometime.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Professor on June 24, 2005, 12:57:46 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..

It turned out not to be blood. That's why you haven't heard anything more.


It doesn't have to be blood. ANY evidence (hair, fiber, etc) that would indicate that Natalee was in that vehicle would require a HUGE explanation. They do wonders with fiber evidence, these days.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 12:58:39 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


That post supposedly came from someone in MB. My point: was it to put PVdS at that location at 3 AM the morning NH went missing? To imply that PVdS was picking up Joran or something else?

I think it goes to what CaliGirl is saying about the kidnap and there being more....

Something I mentioned early this AM, does anyoone know anything about the cases PVdS has ruled on lately? Possible someone watching the kid to set him up to get back at the Judge?


I tried researching it Canun but could not find anything. I wondered if maybe he heard any drug cases.. or quite possibly had one coming up.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..


Saw tha as well - but also heard a report that something went for testing to Virginia


That may have ben the material from the Kalpoe car, earlier


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 12:58:47 PM
Quote from: "sandraK"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


we shouldn't except there is involvement of mikkie dee. the mb romor does not even have a date.  we think we know joren called his dad to pick him up at mikie dee at 11 on sunday nite  (11 is house rule too).  he had been hanging out at the hotels and may have gone to the concert.   maybe he ate there (mom was not home to cook)

  what were the Students Doing @McD's@3AM if it's closed??
 it's to  far to walk ,  the Taxi Mon Know it's Closed .


becasue they probably were not there and if they were how did they id paulus in a dark parking lot?  had they met him before too?  i wonder what they have  going on that parking lot after hours that attracted the mb kids.  or maybe they had munchies bad and staggered over there


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..


Saw tha as well - but also heard a report that something went for testing to Virginia


******************

As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 01:00:44 PM
Quote from: "air23ac"
maybe natalee didn't say anything to the 2 brothers(as mother kalpoe stated) because she was drugged up or under a non-alcohol influence..........perhaps joren was having a good time and natalee thought he was nice, she had a drink w/him.......then he slipped her some kinda drug.........he then calls the kalpoe brothers and says he needs a lift ASAP because he knows the drug effects will soon set in, so while she is coherent he wants to get her out of c&c's...........by the time she is in the car she waves goodbye to her friends and also seems fine...then shortly after she starts to fade from the drugs, hence the lack of conversation


I recall friends of NH's saying that her eyes looked heavy, and that she was speaking in short, brief sentences before leaving CnC's.  

Speaking for myself, though I'm sure others will concur, if you're so drunk, that you've got the spins, or are feeling nauseous, but don't want to let on that you're that f'ed up, you tend to keep your speech to a minimum.  Kind of like focusing on not getting sick.  While I am fairly confident drugs are in play here, I think a likely cause of death was aspiration of vomit.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: monkey c on June 24, 2005, 01:01:28 PM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..


Saw tha as well - but also heard a report that something went for testing to Virginia


******************

As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.


And if you recall the mother to the two brothers said that Deepak was very particular about his car- didn't want any "love making" going on in the car-


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 01:01:29 PM
I have been doing some thinking about all the media on the island.  It seems to me that there is a great deal of outside media coverage right now.  In some instances we have heard how much pressure it has created on the citizens.  However, I think it is significant that the local authorities have never told anyone to go home and seem to be to be using the media coverage to put extra pressure on those that may be involved.

I may be very wrong, but I feel if Natalie was not killed that first night, she may well be hidden somewhere on the island.  With all the extra attention and rewards etc. It would be improbable to move her without someone taking note.  The local authorities may see this as an advantage and in fact be monitoring every bit of information that comes from these external sources.

They just sit back and wait for someone to contradict what has been said befoe.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CancunMole on June 24, 2005, 01:01:30 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


we shouldn't except there is involvement of mikkie dee. the mb romor does not even have a date.  we think we know joren called his dad to pick him up at mikie dee at 11 on sunday nite  (11 is house rule too).  he had been hanging out at the hotels and may have gone to the concert.   maybe he ate there (mom was not home to cook)


Iquitos, it states 3 AM the morning/day that NH went missing.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: gaijin on June 24, 2005, 01:02:12 PM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..


Saw tha as well - but also heard a report that something went for testing to Virginia



******************

As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.



Yes, the sample from the brothers car was sent to Virginia and they alluded to it possibly being "salvia" and dismissed it. The indicent I'm referring to is different.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandraK on June 24, 2005, 01:02:24 PM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "Professor"
Speculation. Speculation. If DNA evidence indicated that Natalee was in either of the VDS cars, then that would require an explanation. A BIG EXPLANATION. And maybe that was why the police took PVDS into custody. Anita VDS said that the authorities had had the two vehicles for "several days." This could be a MAJOR DEVELOPMENT, if true. And, althought PVDS was questioned earlier, this time he is being detained and the VDS household is boarded up. Perhaps they are expecting storm weather.


I'm certain I saw a report last week that stated that trace "evidence" from one of the cars was sent to the Netherlands for DNA testing..

It turned out not to be blood. That's why you haven't heard anything more.


It doesn't have to be blood. ANY evidence (hair, fiber, etc) that would indicate that Natalee was in that vehicle would require a HUGE explanation. They do wonders with fiber evidence, these days.

DNA had NOTHING **that they say** to do with Nat.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rosalie on June 24, 2005, 01:02:31 PM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


It's the law vs. the spokespersons opinion. To suspect someone doesn't neccecarily mean (did I spell that correct) that he did it.



I THINK I heard someone say they list all possible charges. Then when its time to go to court they charge
 them with the ones they have the best/most evidence to go forward with.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 01:02:39 PM
Professor
NOORD, Aruba — Aruban police Wednesday searched the home of a high-ranking Dutch judicial official whose son was with a Mountain Brook honors student the night she disappeared, carrying out plastic garbage bags full of items and towing away two vehicles.
This is dated June 16th


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: may on June 24, 2005, 01:03:32 PM
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


Perhaps he was in the parking lot at McDonalds.


maybe making a phone call that couldn't be traced?

May


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:03:38 PM
WTF??????????? FOX just stated they believed Croes to be held because he might have received a crucial email from one of the suspects.????


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BK on June 24, 2005, 01:03:44 PM
Quote
If anyone is interested in the "Natalee is Alive" theory...go listen to Beth Twitty's interview with Colmes on Fox last night!


Do you have a link for the interview?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 24, 2005, 01:03:58 PM
Quote from: "writergal"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "writergal"
Okay, let me get this straight. This morning, an Aruban spokesperson implies that there is reason to believe Natalee is alive. Last night, Mariane Croes, another Aruban spokesperson, tells Larry King that Paulus, Joran, and the Kalpoes are being held on "suspicion of premeditated murder."
   Which is it?


It's the law vs. the spokespersons opinion. To suspect someone doesn't neccecarily mean (did I spell that correct) that he did it.



  No, that's true. But there must be some good basis for the suspicion. Premeditated murder is a very serious charge. The contradictions are confusing: shouldn't the spokespeople be on the same page? That is, if they're representing law enforcement?


That's why I am not in politics. The JD has reasons to believe that she is dead, but also reasons to believe she is alive. The cup is half full or half empty, pick one.
 The real question is: what are those reasons?
We don't know, and they are not telling (a good thing) so we'll have te guess and I don't like that.


Title: Re: judge napolitano on radio
Post by: Teo on June 24, 2005, 01:04:02 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Teo"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Teo"
Quote from: "iquitos"
fm top 95.1 aruba

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

For those who can understand papiamento or just want lo listen (because sometimes they are commenting in english or passing certains parts of FOX news in english) or you just want to try some of the other radios of Aruba to see if one of them are transmitting in english..

Go to www.arubadag.com and in the upperright menu you can choose 7 arubian radiostatiosn to listen LIVE or chosse TeleAruba to watch arubian television (most of the time it would be better to choose one of the 7 arubian radios...I personnaly recommend Top 95.)

So one more time... www.arubadag.com and then make a choice which arubian radio you want to listen.


 :arrow: TEO THANX!!!   :?:
WHICH STATION IS 101 on dag, if you know????

JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER

Teo


Hi Friend of monkey

as far as I know 101 is a DJ on Top 95.

as far as I know 101 is NOT a radiostation. If I am mistaken som e arubian must correct me now.

Hope this information was helpfull.

Teo


thanks...I thought on 95 they mentioned more news on 101
my mistako...glad u r still here Teo..got to talk to your wife last week??
she sounds / types nice. :lol:


Thank you, just one of the many reasons she is my wife :-)

She sometimes take over when I am not at home or not able to participate on this forum.

Teo


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 01:04:05 PM
can someone trans what press announcement is on dag/ in brief ??
mas appreciado !!


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: monkey c on June 24, 2005, 01:05:33 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
can someone trans what press announcement is on dag/ in brief ??
mas appreciado !!


Dayside on Fox News- at the moment


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Professor on June 24, 2005, 01:05:50 PM
Since we don't know what surveillance was done, do you suppose that the Aruban authorities might have sifted through the VDS trash, after it was collected, and found evidence linked to Natalee? In the U. S. FBI agents sometimes as pose as mailmen or trash collectors. The FBI calls that a "bag job."


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wwizard on June 24, 2005, 01:07:22 PM
Hey, I'll post my theory............just kidding

Did you know there are at least 50 countries that the US says don't "do enough" to inhibit the slave trade?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:08:29 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
WTF??????????? FOX just stated they believed Croes to be held because he might have received a crucial email from one of the suspects.????


I always thought that was the reason.  However, this was probably speculation by Fox. Right? Who said it?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: TexasSugarfoot on June 24, 2005, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: "joebob"
Quote from: "kkial"
Quote from: "TexasSugarfoot"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Speaking of medication.. did anyone ever find out what meds NH had in her bag???  This was asked yesterday sometime I think.. never did see an answer..!! Thanks!
 

ANGIE:  YOU JUST WONT LET GO OF THAT ONE!  it is a very relevant question and i have not seen an answer.  pls continue to keep asking as we have serious adhd on here with all that is coming at us.  not even a chance to read back!


I have seen this question asked five times on here and it has probably been asked a few times that I missed. I have never seen anyone answer. This makes me curious...Where did the original idea that she had medication came from? It also makes me curious if she did indeed have medication, why is nobody answering the question or discussing it?


Beth mentioned it in one of her interviews...She was saying that everything ws intact in her room,,,ie  her medication,,,,asthma??


Asthma? Is that speculation?



This is why I've been watching this medication question with interest. If she did have a sudden asthma attack and was without her medication, it could've proved to be fatal. There are also other medications that one might be able to skip for a day or two without serious effects but could lead to a serious problem after an extended time.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandraK on June 24, 2005, 01:09:30 PM
Quote from: "wwizard"
Hey, I'll post my theory............just kidding

Did you know there are at least 50 countries that the US says don't "do enough" to inhibit the slave trade?

In Brazil It's Legal :evil:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:09:37 PM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
WTF??????????? FOX just stated they believed Croes to be held because he might have received a crucial email from one of the suspects.????


I always thought that was the reason.  However, this was probably speculation by Fox. Right? Who said it?


I only can hear FOX at the moment. lol I am not sure who did.. one of their reporters.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: pinto on June 24, 2005, 01:09:50 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
WTF??????????? FOX just stated they believed Croes to be held because he might have received a crucial email from one of the suspects.????


Maybe his nickname is betty.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote


As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.


How does this stuff they found in the car square with Mrs. Kalpoe's description of how freaked the boy is about keeping his car perfect?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Shataken on June 24, 2005, 01:10:40 PM
CNN has a poll about what story you are most interested in, if anyone wants to vote.  It is located towards the bottom on the left hand side.

http://www.cnn.com/HLN/


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 01:11:32 PM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote


As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.


How does this stuff they found in the car square with Mrs. Kalpoe's description of how freaked the boy is about keeping his car perfect?


*******

Honestly, I don't know...I was just posting what I remembered.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
WTF??????????? FOX just stated they believed Croes to be held because he might have received a crucial email from one of the suspects.????


maybe that gibberish deserves a second look....who s got the link?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: "pinto"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
WTF??????????? FOX just stated they believed Croes to be held because he might have received a crucial email from one of the suspects.????


Maybe his nickname is betty.

ROFLMAO


Title: The Cowboys!
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:12:03 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
afternoon monkeys!!! Anyone know when eqquesearch will actually start their search, and when we will know something? Will thay announce it when they do actually begin searching? This is when i think things will get really good...God I hope they can help...


They are working now.  No, they don't announce where the searches will be happening.

Oh, here's an update right now:

~~~~~~~~~
MORE TX EQUUSEARCH NOTES

Local TV just had a video update from Tim Miller in Aruba.  He said he has been meeting with high-level officials, including the prime minister, since he has been in Aruba.  He said, "in fact, you'll be surprised who I've talked to about Natalee."

Correction to number of TES team flying down there today--it is 17 going today, for a total of 20 on the ground in Aruba after they arrive.  Additional dog details--one is from FL and one is from NM.  (I know search dogs have their fans and supporters, so somebody here probably knows which dogs those are.)

As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."
~~~~~~~~~


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: mojo on June 24, 2005, 01:12:40 PM
that's gonna come as a real shocker to brazil  :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 01:13:21 PM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote


As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.


How does this stuff they found in the car square with Mrs. Kalpoe's description of how freaked the boy is about keeping his car perfect?


*******

Honestly, I don't know...I was just posting what I remembered.


Oh, no. I'm not questioning your post.  It just instantly brought to mind Mrs. Kalpoe's comments that her kid is meticulous about his car.  Sounds to me like he wouldn't run around with some stuff all over the car seat and whatever was there had to be fairly fresh - if not blood, maybe vomit?


Title: mcdonald's pickup
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:13:38 PM
mmm so paul may have gone back to pick up Joran again at 3.  that would shorten the time natalee and joran were together and limit whatever incident occured between them.  would seem to corroborate the she fell asleep and i left story.  i would say they left c and c at 1:30, did the lighthouse run maybe half hour, 45 minutes, and, hey, its already 2:15 when Joran and Natalee head for the beach area from the dropoff.  then joran calls his dad who is at mcdonald's by three probably needs 15-20 minutes to get there so joran calls him at 2:30- 2:45.  not much time for joran to kill natalee.  was paulus folowing him?  what did paulusdo next?  I think the mb rumor post was from somebody named Twitty.  i think it is bogus.  but it is intriguing.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 01:14:17 PM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "air23ac"
maybe natalee didn't say anything to the 2 brothers(as mother kalpoe stated) because she was drugged up or under a non-alcohol influence..........perhaps joren was having a good time and natalee thought he was nice, she had a drink w/him.......then he slipped her some kinda drug.........he then calls the kalpoe brothers and says he needs a lift ASAP because he knows the drug effects will soon set in, so while she is coherent he wants to get her out of c&c's...........by the time she is in the car she waves goodbye to her friends and also seems fine...then shortly after she starts to fade from the drugs, hence the lack of conversation


I recall friends of NH's saying that her eyes looked heavy, and that she was speaking in short, brief sentences before leaving CnC's.  

Speaking for myself, though I'm sure others will concur, if you're so drunk, that you've got the spins, or are feeling nauseous, but don't want to let on that you're that f'ed up, you tend to keep your speech to a minimum.  Kind of like focusing on not getting sick.  While I am fairly confident drugs are in play here, I think a likely cause of death was aspiration of vomit.


I kinda like timelines, but let me speculate here..since Deepak closes the shop of Internet Cafe say at 11pm, his younger bros picks him up at work, given the time from of 11.-11.30pm, the latter being the latest time Deepak departs from work.  (I guess some Internet Cafe user might buy a block of internet usage as the mother described.)  Deepak needs to get and pickup Joran at his house...that would take another 15min, if you include small talk, add another 10min.  Add another 15 min to the ride to CnC and time to park the car and check in.  I figure arriving at CnC is about 12-12.30..that leaves one hour to:

a: Joran needs to quickly find Natalee, engage her to leave her friends if she is already doing that.   From an unconfirmed email of Deepak, either Joran never danced, or from MB students he did.  Since Nat probably might have been dancing or sitting with her friends, Joran would have to disengage her from those 2 occurences.  Since there is a confirmed altercation, add another 15 min for the confrontation.  That already puts us to closing time.  Oh and add the fact that he presumbly or hypothetically has to administer a pill or something liquid.  Oh and also we have to add the fact that Nat was in the Bathroom or not, I forget if the story of her not feeling bad in the bathroom was true or not...Remember all this puts all these occurence to occure in a one hour time frame.


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: monkey c on June 24, 2005, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
afternoon monkeys!!! Anyone know when eqquesearch will actually start their search, and when we will know something? Will thay announce it when they do actually begin searching? This is when i think things will get really good...God I hope they can help...


They are working now.  No, they don't announce where the searches will be happening.

Oh, here's an update right now:

~~~~~~~~~
MORE TX EQUUSEARCH NOTES
Great report- this is just too cool--
Local TV just had a video update from Tim Miller in Aruba.  He said he has been meeting with high-level officials, including the prime minister, since he has been in Aruba.  He said, "in fact, you'll be surprised who I've talked to about Natalee."

Correction to number of TES team flying down there today--it is 17 going today, for a total of 20 on the ground in Aruba after they arrive.  Additional dog details--one is from FL and one is from NM.  (I know search dogs have their fans and supporters, so somebody here probably knows which dogs those are.)

As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."
~~~~~~~~~


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: monkey c on June 24, 2005, 01:15:30 PM
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "Itawamba"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
afternoon monkeys!!! Anyone know when eqquesearch will actually start their search, and when we will know something? Will thay announce it when they do actually begin searching? This is when i think things will get really good...God I hope they can help...


They are working now.  No, they don't announce where the searches will be happening.

Oh, here's an update right now:

~~~~~~~~~
MORE TX EQUUSEARCH NOTES
Great report- this is just too cool--
Local TV just had a video update from Tim Miller in Aruba.  He said he has been meeting with high-level officials, including the prime minister, since he has been in Aruba.  He said, "in fact, you'll be surprised who I've talked to about Natalee."

Correction to number of TES team flying down there today--it is 17 going today, for a total of 20 on the ground in Aruba after they arrive.  Additional dog details--one is from FL and one is from NM.  (I know search dogs have their fans and supporters, so somebody here probably knows which dogs those are.)

As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."
~~~~~~~~~


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 01:15:38 PM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote


As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.


How does this stuff they found in the car square with Mrs. Kalpoe's description of how freaked the boy is about keeping his car perfect?


*******

Honestly, I don't know...I was just posting what I remembered.


Oh, no. I'm not questioning your post.  It just instantly brought to mind Mrs. Kalpoe's comments that her kid is meticulous about his car.  Sounds to me like he wouldn't run around with some stuff all over the car seat and whatever was there had to be fairly fresh - if not blood, maybe vomit?


************

Wow...good point...I never even thought of vomit, but makes sense if they had drugged NH and she had already been drinking. Then again, the vomit would have her DNA right? I wish we knew more details about this whole case...

More than that I hope they find NH alive!!!! I have spent mucho time on bended knee speaking with God about this.


Title: Re: avds
Post by: luckydee on June 24, 2005, 01:16:17 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
did anyone notice two different statments for anita vds?
she said at one point that she was in holland, then said she could nt sleep(the night natalee went missing), bc joran was nt home... did i hear that correctly, or am i imagining it?


I understood her statement to mean that she was in Holland. She was notified (by PVDS?) about the problem with NH and couldn't sleep that night. She then mentioned flying home and being upset.  Question: was her original return date on Wed? did she make a change in reservation as soon as she heard about the problem?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wwizard on June 24, 2005, 01:16:44 PM
TX EQUUSEARCH might be good, but they can't find something thats not there


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 01:16:45 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "air23ac"
maybe natalee didn't say anything to the 2 brothers(as mother kalpoe stated) because she was drugged up or under a non-alcohol influence..........perhaps joren was having a good time and natalee thought he was nice, she had a drink w/him.......then he slipped her some kinda drug.........he then calls the kalpoe brothers and says he needs a lift ASAP because he knows the drug effects will soon set in, so while she is coherent he wants to get her out of c&c's...........by the time she is in the car she waves goodbye to her friends and also seems fine...then shortly after she starts to fade from the drugs, hence the lack of conversation


I recall friends of NH's saying that her eyes looked heavy, and that she was speaking in short, brief sentences before leaving CnC's.  

Speaking for myself, though I'm sure others will concur, if you're so drunk, that you've got the spins, or are feeling nauseous, but don't want to let on that you're that f'ed up, you tend to keep your speech to a minimum.  Kind of like focusing on not getting sick.  While I am fairly confident drugs are in play here, I think a likely cause of death was aspiration of vomit.


I kinda like timelines, but let me speculate here..since Deepak closes the shop of Internet Cafe say at 11pm, his younger bros picks him up at work, given the time from of 11.-11.30pm, the latter being the latest time Deepak departs from work.  (I guess some Internet Cafe user might buy a block of internet usage as the mother described.)  Deepak needs to get and pickup Joran at his house...that would take another 15min, if you include small talk, add another 10min.  Add another 15 min to the ride to CnC and time to park the car and check in.  I figure arriving at CnC is about 12-12.30..that leaves one hour to:

a: Joran needs to quickly find Natalee, engage her to leave her friends if she is already doing that.   From an unconfirmed email of Deepak, either Joran never danced, or from MB students he did.  Since Nat probably might have been dancing or sitting with her friends, Joran would have to disengage her from those 2 occurences.  Since there is a confirmed altercation, add another 15 min for the confrontation.  That already puts us to closing time.  Oh and add the fact that he presumbly or hypothetically has to administer a pill or something liquid.  Oh and also we have to add the fact that Nat was in the Bathroom or not, I forget if the story of her not feeling bad in the bathroom was true or not...Remember all this puts all these occurence to occure in a one hour time frame.


Deepak's mom said he got off work at 11:30..so then add in Satish picking him.
I believe Joran somehow got to CnC on his own because no one has be able to say the brothers were at CnC only out front in their car.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 01:17:12 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


That post supposedly came from someone in MB. My point: was it to put PVdS at that location at 3 AM the morning NH went missing? To imply that PVdS was picking up Joran or something else?

I think it goes to what CaliGirl is saying about the kidnap and there being more....

Something I mentioned early this AM, does anyoone know anything about the cases PVdS has ruled on lately? Possible someone watching the kid to set him up to get back at the Judge?


I tried researching it Canun but could not find anything. I wondered if maybe he heard any drug cases.. or quite possibly had one coming up.
Savidge ( the reporter) on MSNBC said on Imus this am, that there was some discussion joran called his dad in the early morning hours, and that dad had denied it. Telephone records perhaps tripped dad up?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Quote


As I recall...the sample that went to Virginia for testing was from the Honda driven by Deepak on the night all this went down and what ever the sample was, was not blood from anyone. However, they never said what the sample turned out to be.


How does this stuff they found in the car square with Mrs. Kalpoe's description of how freaked the boy is about keeping his car perfect?


He may have had no choice, since at that time it was turning into a criminal investigation, but fair to say alot of cars in Aruba are souped up or adorned..


Title: Re: avds
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 01:17:56 PM
Quote from: "luckydee"
Quote from: "Rob"
did anyone notice two different statments for anita vds?
she said at one point that she was in holland, then said she could nt sleep(the night natalee went missing), bc joran was nt home... did i hear that correctly, or am i imagining it?


I understood her statement to mean that she was in Holland. She was notified (by PVDS?) about the problem with NH and couldn't sleep that night. She then mentioned flying home and being upset.  Question: was her original return date on Wed? did she make a change in reservation as soon as she heard about the problem?


im still kinda sketchy on this series of statments by her...she s not "real" clear...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: monkey c on June 24, 2005, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "air23ac"
maybe natalee didn't say anything to the 2 brothers(as mother kalpoe stated) because she was drugged up or under a non-alcohol influence..........perhaps joren was having a good time and natalee thought he was nice, she had a drink w/him.......then he slipped her some kinda drug.........he then calls the kalpoe brothers and says he needs a lift ASAP because he knows the drug effects will soon set in, so while she is coherent he wants to get her out of c&c's...........by the time she is in the car she waves goodbye to her friends and also seems fine...then shortly after she starts to fade from the drugs, hence the lack of conversation


I recall friends of NH's saying that her eyes looked heavy, and that she was speaking in short, brief sentences before leaving CnC's.  

Speaking for myself, though I'm sure others will concur, if you're so drunk, that you've got the spins, or are feeling nauseous, but don't want to let on that you're that f'ed up, you tend to keep your speech to a minimum.  Kind of like focusing on not getting sick.  While I am fairly confident drugs are in play here, I think a likely cause of death was aspiration of vomit.


I kinda like timelines, but let me speculate here..since Deepak closes the shop of Internet Cafe say at 11pm, his younger bros picks him up at work, given the time from of 11.-11.30pm, the latter being the latest time Deepak departs from work.  (I guess some Internet Cafe user might buy a block of internet usage as the mother described.)  Deepak needs to get and pickup Joran at his house...that would take another 15min, if you include small talk, add another 10min.  Add another 15 min to the ride to CnC and time to park the car and check in.  I figure arriving at CnC is about 12-12.30..that leaves one hour to:

a: Joran needs to quickly find Natalee, engage her to leave her friends if she is already doing that.   From an unconfirmed email of Deepak, either Joran never danced, or from MB students he did.  Since Nat probably might have been dancing or sitting with her friends, Joran would have to disengage her from those 2 occurences.  Since there is a confirmed altercation, add another 15 min for the confrontation.  That already puts us to closing time.  Oh and add the fact that he presumbly or hypothetically has to administer a pill or something liquid.  Oh and also we have to add the fact that Nat was in the Bathroom or not, I forget if the story of her not feeling bad in the bathroom was true or not...Remember all this puts all these occurence to occure in a one hour time frame.


Deepak's mom said he got off work at 11:30..so then add in Satish picking him.
I believe Joran somehow got to CnC on his own because no one has be able to say the brothers were at CnC only out front in their car.


And the film from CnC should show if they were there or not


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:18:15 PM
Quote from: "BK"
Quote
If anyone is interested in the "Natalee is Alive" theory...go listen to Beth Twitty's interview with Colmes on Fox last night!


Do you have a link for the interview?


Here's the link to the transcript and the video. They must have just put up the transcript.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160612,00.html


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 01:18:37 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "kkial"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Could still be McDees.....probably not there to eat!


Since this was a student from MBHS saying this - how did the students get around the island??   Were these students in a rented car, in a taxi, or what?  How would they have occasion to be cruising by a MD's at that hour anyway?


There's a McDonald's just off the main road, near the Holiday Inn in Palm Beach.


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: BarStine on June 24, 2005, 01:18:39 PM
As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."


......Maybe these athletes are not there for celebrity status, and they are going as security to case out some tough neighborhoods....


G_d bless the USA and NFL and TES


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BK on June 24, 2005, 01:18:55 PM
Compananzi you wrote
Quote
Since there is a confirmed altercation
 But I don't think there was an altercation that night.  There was a confirmed fight between Joran and one of the American kids but I think that that happened earlier on in the week--not on their last night.  That's what I remember reading somewhere anyway.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: BK on June 24, 2005, 01:20:30 PM
Thanks nancy_drew


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 01:20:34 PM
Quote from: "wwizard"
TX EQUUSEARCH might be good, but they can't find something thats not there

I applaud your restraint in not posting your theory again!  :lol:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DT on June 24, 2005, 01:20:35 PM
Interesting post by Dan at RiehlWolrdview.com:

"In talking with an adult professional from Aruba who knew Joran, the individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath.""


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 01:20:43 PM
Maybe before Satish picked up Deepak at his work, Satish picked up Joran and they pick up Deepak next...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 01:21:19 PM
Check out this exchange in Beth Twitty's Colmes interview?  You need to read the whole thing...but, here's one part.  Prior to this she spoke of further arrests and refers to those people here.

TWITTY: I believe that she is alive. I do. I do. And that is what gets me up every day. And I have a strong faith and trust in God. And I truly believe that she is alive.

COLMES: And where do you think she is, on the island here?

TWITTY: I think she's right here on this island.

COLMES: Being held somewhere?

TWITTY: Yes.

COLMES: So other people who might be involved are the ones not in custody, the ones might be holding her?

TWITTY: Exactly.

COLMES: Do you have any idea where that is?

TWITTY: No, I wish I did.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Atlmetroguy on June 24, 2005, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1am.


Well, if Arubagirl stated that McDonald's closes at 1 am, then why should we even BELIEVE that PVDS was seen there at 3 am?


That post supposedly came from someone in MB. My point: was it to put PVdS at that location at 3 AM the morning NH went missing? To imply that PVdS was picking up Joran or something else?

I think it goes to what CaliGirl is saying about the kidnap and there being more....

Something I mentioned early this AM, does anyoone know anything about the cases PVdS has ruled on lately? Possible someone watching the kid to set him up to get back at the Judge?


I tried researching it Canun but could not find anything. I wondered if maybe he heard any drug cases.. or quite possibly had one coming up.
Savidge ( the reporter) on MSNBC said on Imus this am, that there was some discussion joran called his dad in the early morning hours, and that dad had denied it. Telephone records perhaps tripped dad up?



********************

Absolutely!! Me being in the telecom biz...if they were using cell phones the switch and BTS log will have everything, begining time, dialed digits, length of call, end time, what tower was being used (think location here), even down to what antenna on the tower was being used, when/what other tower the call might have been handed off to. Say it was a 5 minute call, the location of caller could be approximated to with less than a 1/4 mile and what direction the caller was heading.....lotsa useful data there.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nutnhoney1974 on June 24, 2005, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
WTF??????????? FOX just stated they believed Croes to be held because he might have received a crucial email from one of the suspects.????


I posted about this earlier in this thread and in the Wonder Woman debate thread.  I heard Greta talk briefly about this last night.  Here's the link to my post about what I heard

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223&start=80


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Chicago_510 on June 24, 2005, 01:22:12 PM
Is this possibly a picture of Rene? (He has been mentioned a few times, no real evidence that its tied to Natalee's case)

I figured I would post it before I fogot where I found it.


http://www.groenetechnieken.nl/pages_agt/proficiat2003.html


Title: Premeditated murder
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 01:22:19 PM
Transcript from Larry King can be found here.

    KING: And why are they suspects?

    CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: "BarStine"
As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."


......Maybe these athletes are not there for celebrity status, and they are going as security to case out some tough neighborhoods....


G_d bless the USA and NFL and TES


pro athletes are not easily dissuaded from a confortation....or car chase , or armed robbery or arson, or.......just what aruba needs, imported criminals. watch the crime rate go through the roof the 11 days in there...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: goon squad on June 24, 2005, 01:22:55 PM
<<Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend>>

Current Houston, TX resident, former Alabama resident, and former University of Alabama player Robert Horry seems to be a likely candidate.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: iquitos on June 24, 2005, 01:23:34 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "air23ac"
maybe natalee didn't say anything to the 2 brothers(as mother kalpoe stated) because she was drugged up or under a non-alcohol influence..........perhaps joren was having a good time and natalee thought he was nice, she had a drink w/him.......then he slipped her some kinda drug.........he then calls the kalpoe brothers and says he needs a lift ASAP because he knows the drug effects will soon set in, so while she is coherent he wants to get her out of c&c's...........by the time she is in the car she waves goodbye to her friends and also seems fine...then shortly after she starts to fade from the drugs, hence the lack of conversation


I recall friends of NH's saying that her eyes looked heavy, and that she was speaking in short, brief sentences before leaving CnC's.  

Speaking for myself, though I'm sure others will concur, if you're so drunk, that you've got the spins, or are feeling nauseous, but don't want to let on that you're that f'ed up, you tend to keep your speech to a minimum.  Kind of like focusing on not getting sick.  While I am fairly confident drugs are in play here, I think a likely cause of death was aspiration of vomit.


I kinda like timelines, but let me speculate here..since Deepak closes the shop of Internet Cafe say at 11pm, his younger bros picks him up at work, given the time from of 11.-11.30pm, the latter being the latest time Deepak departs from work.  (I guess some Internet Cafe user might buy a block of internet usage as the mother described.)  Deepak needs to get and pickup Joran at his house...that would take another 15min, if you include small talk, add another 10min.  Add another 15 min to the ride to CnC and time to park the car and check in.  I figure arriving at CnC is about 12-12.30..that leaves one hour to:

a: Joran needs to quickly find Natalee, engage her to leave her friends if she is already doing that.   From an unconfirmed email of Deepak, either Joran never danced, or from MB students he did.  Since Nat probably might have been dancing or sitting with her friends, Joran would have to disengage her from those 2 occurences.  Since there is a confirmed altercation, add another 15 min for the confrontation.  That already puts us to closing time.  Oh and add the fact that he presumbly or hypothetically has to administer a pill or something liquid.  Oh and also we have to add the fact that Nat was in the Bathroom or not, I forget if the story of her not feeling bad in the bathroom was true or not...Remember all this puts all these occurence to occure in a one hour time frame.
 

the timeline does not support the theory that the 3 boys drugged natalee.  she could have already been drugged or she was just reacting to too much alcohol she was not used too.  probably real cheap hi test rotgut.  jug?


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: monkey c on June 24, 2005, 01:23:36 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "BarStine"
As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."


......Maybe these athletes are not there for celebrity status, and they are going as security to case out some tough neighborhoods....


G_d bless the USA and NFL and TES


Well they are not all bad--

pro athletes are not easily dissuaded from a confortation....or car chase , or armed robbery or arson, or.......just what aruba needs, imported criminals. watch the crime rate go through the roof the 11 days in there...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: may on June 24, 2005, 01:23:42 PM
Quote from: "Atlmetroguy"
Wow...good point...I never even thought of vomit, but makes sense if they had drugged NH and she had already been drinking. Then again, the vomit would have her DNA right? I wish we knew more details about this whole case...

More than that I hope they find NH alive!!!! I have spent mucho time on bended knee speaking with God about this.


i was thinking about that...i wonder though, if (now this is gross) fresh vomit wouldn't contain DNA because of the stomach acid destroying it?


May


Title: Re: Premeditated murder
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: "sunmoonstars"
Transcript from Larry King can be found here.

    KING: And why are they suspects?

    CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.


that is interesting.
how many more arrests to you think there will be today?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: "Shataken"
CNN has a poll about what story you are most interested in, if anyone wants to vote.  It is located towards the bottom on the left hand side.

http://www.cnn.com/HLN/


look who is winning, although I wonder if there are not many diversions out there in the news right now, to keep the US public from studying the number of US soldiers and Iraqi's being killed by "insurgents" or terrorists who did not exist there until we went in, or perhaps diversion from the Downing St memo, and most assuredly from Karl Rove calling me and others a traitor by his language.........but I digress--------Natalee seems to be in the lead at 47%. I am glad her Mother has kept this front and center, but I feel for the boys in NJ missing with little attention because perhaps, the family is not as well connected? Slam away. :x


Title: info overload
Post by: BarStine on June 24, 2005, 01:25:07 PM
Quote from: "BK"
Compananzi you wrote
Quote
Since there is a confirmed altercation
 But I don't think there was an altercation that night.  There was a confirmed fight between Joran and one of the American kids but I think that that happened earlier on in the week--not on their last night.  That's what I remember reading somewhere anyway.


I've been wondering if the only altercation was with JvS or there were more with other people. Also if there was a drug bust at their hotel beach while all MB was staying there, or if a dealer got snitched.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Itawamba on June 24, 2005, 01:25:41 PM
Quote from: "wwizard"
TX EQUUSEARCH might be good, but they can't find something thats not there


Agreed--and they are the FIRST to say so.  I hope Tim Miller is either meeting with Beth and family today or he did yesterday.

The TES team is usually relentlessly upbeat, but REALISTIC, (you know, the politically correct "cautiously optimistic") from what I've known of them.  In his public statements locally, Tim Miller has not been hopeful of finding a live Natalee -- but maybe Beth can infect him with her contagious cheerfulness--or vice versa.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: LemonDrop on June 24, 2005, 01:26:08 PM
Strange question:  Suppose Natalee IS hidden somewhere on the island.  Could that Texas group find her with their equipment?  Or will their equipment only find dead bodies....   :(


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 01:27:14 PM
Quote from: "arrabba"

Why would someone want to kill Natalee Holloway?


Perhaps because she was threatening to go right to the police and report that she was raped.

And, neither Joran nor his father would allow that.


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 01:27:38 PM
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "BarStine"
As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."


......Maybe these athletes are not there for celebrity status, and they are going as security to case out some tough neighborhoods....


G_d bless the USA and NFL and TES


Well they are not all bad--

pro athletes are not easily dissuaded from a confortation....or car chase , or armed robbery or arson, or.......just what aruba needs, imported criminals. watch the crime rate go through the roof the 11 days in there...


many do alot to help unfortuante ppl..


Title: Re: mcdonald's pickup
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: "iquitos"
mmm so paul may have gone back to pick up Joran again at 3.  that would shorten the time natalee and joran were together and limit whatever incident occured between them.  would seem to corroborate the she fell asleep and i left story.  i would say they left c and c at 1:30, did the lighthouse run maybe half hour, 45 minutes, and, hey, its already 2:15 when Joran and Natalee head for the beach area from the dropoff.  then joran calls his dad who is at mcdonald's by three probably needs 15-20 minutes to get there so joran calls him at 2:30- 2:45.  not much time for joran to kill natalee.  was paulus folowing him?  what did paulusdo next?  I think the mb rumor post was from somebody named Twitty.  i think it is bogus.  but it is intriguing.


My time line is getting pretty weird, look at this ..

1. Joran gets pickup by PVDS at 11 pm at McDonalds.
2. Internet Cafe closes at 11pm, I am not sure but wouldn't McDonalds be closer to Internet Cafe?  Both pickups occur at almost the same time...even tho Joran never calls Deepak or Satish but his Dad instead.
3. How would Paulus not know that Joran gets pickup by Deepak, it would be like 12.15 pm to 12.30, reported that he might be deep asleep.
4. Is the 11 pm Joran pickup correct?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: writenow on June 24, 2005, 01:27:42 PM
Afternoon all!

OK. I still have questions about papa and mama v.d.Sloot and where they were on the night of Sunday 5/29-Mon 5/30.

 I thought last night we'd established that both were in Holland (which meant probably the two younger boys were with them and Joran was home alone in his bach pad) and that Paul had flown back to Aruba Sunday and Anita Wednesday. Right?

1. When exactly did Paul vds come back to Aruba?
2. Why did Joran have an 11 pm "curfew" on Sunday night (school nite), but was out after 1 am on Monday night/Tues. morning (school nite) gambling at the casinos and daddy didn't care?
3. Why is there an account of Anita vds saying her husband was deep asleep Sunday night? How did she know if she was still in Holland?


Title: Re: Premeditated murder
Post by: writergal on June 24, 2005, 01:28:07 PM
Quote from: "sunmoonstars"
Transcript from Larry King can be found here.

    KING: And why are they suspects?

    CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.



   it would be interesting to know what, under Aruban/Dutch law, would constitute "reasonable suspicion of premeditated murder". It doesn't seem to be as stringent as "probable cause."


Title: TEX
Post by: sunmoonstars on June 24, 2005, 01:28:16 PM
FOM, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several more people arrested before this ends! I don't know about today. If anyone can get FOX, they are interviewing Joe Houston with TES. Very interesting and detailed info.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: CancunMole on June 24, 2005, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: "BK"
Quote
If anyone is interested in the "Natalee is Alive" theory...go listen to Beth Twitty's interview with Colmes on Fox last night!


Do you have a link for the interview?


If that is true, do we think that the father, the judge knowledgeable in law, would send or suggest that a traceable e-mail be sent? Response to wrong post. This is to the post about Croes being held because of an e-mail.


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "BarStine"
As far as the "celebrity volunteers" who will be going to Aruba to bring attention to Natalee's plight, no names were released again and the local reporter was unable to confirm any of the rumors she had heard about who it would be.

Whichever NBA and NFL stars participate, they will be leaving Houston "sometime this weekend."


......Maybe these athletes are not there for celebrity status, and they are going as security to case out some tough neighborhoods....


G_d bless the USA and NFL and TES


pro athletes are not easily dissuaded from a confortation....or car chase , or armed robbery or arson, or.......just what aruba needs, imported criminals. watch the crime rate go through the roof the 11 days in there...



 You'll be seeing things a little differenly??


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 01:30:13 PM
Quote from: "writenow"
Afternoon all!

OK. I still have questions about papa and mama v.d.Sloot and where they were on the night of Sunday 5/29-Mon 5/30.

 I thought last night we'd established that both were in Holland (which meant probably the two younger boys were with them and Joran was home alone in his bach pad) and that Paul had flown back to Aruba Sunday and Anita Wednesday. Right?

1. When exactly did Paul vds come back to Aruba?
2. Why did Joran have an 11 pm "curfew" on Sunday night (school nite), but was out after 1 am on Monday night/Tues. morning (school nite) gambling at the casinos and daddy didn't care?
3. Why is there an account of Anita vds saying her husband was deep asleep Sunday night? How did she know if she was still in Holland?


Were both parents in Holland? I have in my timeline that PVDS arrived in Aruba around 5pm, and AVDS says she arrived on Wedsday?  Are these dates confirmed?


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 01:31:05 PM
Quote from: "writenow"
Afternoon all!

OK. I still have questions about papa and mama v.d.Sloot and where they were on the night of Sunday 5/29-Mon 5/30.

 I thought last night we'd established that both were in Holland (which meant probably the two younger boys were with them and Joran was home alone in his bach pad) and that Paul had flown back to Aruba Sunday and Anita Wednesday. Right?

1. When exactly did Paul vds come back to Aruba?
2. Why did Joran have an 11 pm "curfew" on Sunday night (school nite), but was out after 1 am on Monday night/Tues. morning (school nite) gambling at the casinos and daddy didn't care?
3. Why is there an account of Anita vds saying her husband was deep asleep Sunday night? How did she know if she was still in Holland?


one thing is a known fact... anita van der sloot is a loony bird


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: wwizard on June 24, 2005, 01:31:42 PM
"WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP ITS BEEN"
-The Grateful Dead


Title: Re: TEX
Post by: sandy on June 24, 2005, 01:32:09 PM
Quote from: "sunmoonstars"
FOM, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several more people arrested before this ends! I don't know about today. If anyone can get FOX, they are interviewing Joe Houston with TES. Very interesting and detailed info.


Please relay what they are saying - I have called a close associate who is a senior exec at the local cable company and told him they have to get FOX - he tells me the earliest is the Fall - I said, by then the sharks will be licking their lips and putting away their knives and forks


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: "CancunMole"
Quote from: "BK"
Quote
If anyone is interested in the "Natalee is Alive" theory...go listen to Beth Twitty's interview with Colmes on Fox last night!


Do you have a link for the interview?


If that is true, do we think that the father, the judge knowledgeable in law, would send or suggest that a traceable e-mail be sent?

Maybe, it the email is the statement PVDS told all the boys to stick to.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 01:32:21 PM
Compananzi wrote:

Quote
My time line is getting pretty weird, look at this ..

1. Joran gets pickup by PVDS at 11 pm at McDonalds.
2. Internet Cafe closes at 11pm, I am not sure but wouldn't McDonalds be closer to Internet Cafe? Both pickups occur at almost the same time...even tho Joran never calls Deepak or Satish but his Dad instead.
3. How would Paulus not know that Joran gets pickup by Deepak, it would be like 12.15 pm to 12.30, reported that he might be deep asleep.
4. Is the 11 pm Joran pickup correct?




If joran called satish when he was home(after pvds picked him at 11.00)
Then I think it`s possible that satish picked up joran before he pick up deepak.


Title: Re: The Cowboys!
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 01:33:19 PM
pro athletes are not easily dissuaded from a confortation....or car chase , or armed robbery or arson, or.......just what aruba needs, imported criminals. watch the crime rate go through the roof the 11 days in there...[/quote]


 You'll be seeing things a little differenly??[/quote]

someone else on dag??? comments???
I'd hate to guess  ....sounds like maass media announcements
looking for witnessess?? unofficially
my papiamento is bad


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 01:34:13 PM
i wonder if the cyberzone cafe in in the same building as amici's. across from the playa linda.....i know there is an internet cafe there... and the mcdonalds is right around the corner...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 01:34:13 PM
After seeing AVDS in the interview where she says " This is not about Natalee anymore" etc. Any sympathy I had for her dissipated. Based on the fact, she apparently has no sympathy for Natalee's family, no matter the outcome. Also when she said, they (meaning Aruban LE, IMO) are looking for a victim, and they have found one" meaning her son and husband. She is clueless :x


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 01:35:00 PM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "arrabba"

Why would someone want to kill Natalee Holloway?


Perhaps because she was threatening to go right to the police and report that she was raped.

And, neither Joran nor his father would allow that.


I pretty much think the rape charges wouldn't fly?
Natalee got in the car, the other two boys have said that she was making out with him .
It's her word against his , they are both good students.
There is more to this story.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: "LemonDrop"
Strange question:  Suppose Natalee IS hidden somewhere on the island.  Could that Texas group find her with their equipment?  Or will their equipment only find dead bodies....   :(



VERY good question..thats what i was wondering


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: sandraK on June 24, 2005, 01:35:41 PM
Quote from: "Chicago_510"
Is this possibly a picture of Rene? (He has been mentioned a few times, no real evidence that its tied to Natalee's case)

I figured I would post it before I fogot where I found it.


http://www.groenetechnieken.nl/pages_agt/proficiat2003.html

No. the Be-headed man was black.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2005, 01:35:46 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
After seeing AVDS in the interview where she says " This is not about Natalee anymore" etc. Any sympathy I had for her dissipated. Based on the fact, she apparently has no sympathy for Natalee's family, no matter the outcome. Also when she said, they (meaning Aruban LE, IMO) are looking for a victim, and they have found one" meaning her son and husband. She is clueless :x


the kiss on the cheek was like the kiss of death.. made me slighly sickkk....


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 01:35:58 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "writenow"
Afternoon all!

OK. I still have questions about papa and mama v.d.Sloot and where they were on the night of Sunday 5/29-Mon 5/30.

 I thought last night we'd established that both were in Holland (which meant probably the two younger boys were with them and Joran was home alone in his bach pad) and that Paul had flown back to Aruba Sunday and Anita Wednesday. Right?

1. When exactly did Paul vds come back to Aruba?
2. Why did Joran have an 11 pm "curfew" on Sunday night (school nite), but was out after 1 am on Monday night/Tues. morning (school nite) gambling at the casinos and daddy didn't care?
3. Why is there an account of Anita vds saying her husband was deep asleep Sunday night? How did she know if she was still in Holland?


Were both parents in Holland? I have in my timeline that PVDS arrived in Aruba around 5pm, and AVDS says she arrived on Wedsday?  Are these dates confirmed?


Yes


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 01:36:05 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
After seeing AVDS in the interview where she says " This is not about Natalee anymore" etc. Any sympathy I had for her dissipated. Based on the fact, she apparently has no sympathy for Natalee's family, no matter the outcome. Also when she said, they (meaning Aruban LE, IMO) are looking for a victim, and they have found one" meaning her son and husband. She is clueless :x


Kacky, I did not hear that...How can she say that?? This is not about Natalie anymore??? PLEASE>>>>


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
After seeing AVDS in the interview where she says " This is not about Natalee anymore" etc. Any sympathy I had for her dissipated. Based on the fact, she apparently has no sympathy for Natalee's family, no matter the outcome. Also when she said, they (meaning Aruban LE, IMO) are looking for a victim, and they have found one" meaning her son and husband. She is clueless :x


the kiss on the cheek was like the kiss of death.. made me slighly sickkk....


me too...


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: DivaToo on June 24, 2005, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: "DT"
Interesting post by Dan at RiehlWolrdview.com:

"In talking with an adult professional from Aruba who knew Joran, the individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath.""


 :shock:


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: "LemonDrop"
Strange question:  Suppose Natalee IS hidden somewhere on the island.  Could that Texas group find her with their equipment?  Or will their equipment only find dead bodies....   :(


Lemondrop, according to the founder of the Texas group- they are looking for both dead and alive.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: klaasend on June 24, 2005, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: "sandraK"
Quote from: "Chicago_510"
Is this possibly a picture of Rene? (He has been mentioned a few times, no real evidence that its tied to Natalee's case)

I figured I would post it before I fogot where I found it.


http://www.groenetechnieken.nl/pages_agt/proficiat2003.html

No. the Be-headed man was black.

Not sure where you heard he was black.  I suppose he could be.  He is Dutch and there are black dutch.  I have not read anywhere that he was black.


Title: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
Post by: roxyluv on June 24, 2005, 01:37:59 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
After seeing AVDS in the interview where she says " This is not about Natalee anymore" etc. Any sympathy I had for her dissipated. Based on the fact, she apparently has no sympathy for Natalee's family, no matter the outcome. Also when she said, they (meaning Aruban LE, IMO) are looking for a victim, and they have found one" meaning her son and husband. She is