Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) => Natalee Breaking News Archive => Topic started by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 09:46:13 PM



Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 09:46:13 PM
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Enjoy!

Please visit www.scaredmonkeys.com for the summaries of the news!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 09:47:03 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
KERIN!!!! Where have you been, woman? No one to come to my defense!!! LOLOLquote]

I decided to have a life for a few days and have some nourishment other than Starbucks.  :P I had lost 7 pounds just in the time I have been here!


LOL  I now what you mean.. I cant keep myself glued to the pc 24/7 either.. I have kids and a hubby and a house to deal with. and someties as I have mentioned before.. people DO need to take a break away form this.. I have learned that long ago working at 911.. if you dont break.. it will drive you nuts..  AND  ((((NIkki)...


I have 2 kids, the house, etc, too..and today i was out mowing the dang yard...But i can tell you this, every spare minute i have is spent here..pathetic, huh?
Earlier i posted that my oldest daugter came home today from beach camp and said, "MOM, you care more about natalee holloway than me...You are ALWAYS at the computer..dang, you havent seen me all week!!!! " LOLOLOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Ting on June 24, 2005, 09:47:31 PM
Monkeys will wear clean red shorts with matching suspenders. Lady Monkeys will also wear freshly laundered white ruffles. Monkeys Living with Sockism will wear regulation ringspun sock suits.

Monkeys will observe correct posting posture at all times. Back straight, feet straight out, eyes ahead, and smile.

Monkeys will take and return from breaks promptly. Excessive breaks without prior medical authorization approved by the Primate Resources department will be subject to demerits.

Monkeys may begin tidying their area five minutes before the end of the posting session, making sure that all fonts, including bold and italics are returned to the supply closet, and all avatars are cleaned, folded and put away neatly in the appropriate slot.

Monkeys will type in straight lines only.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 09:48:57 PM
Jug is judging VDS' based on their lifestyle. Wonder what goes on in his home?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 09:51:15 PM
Mark Klass is forgetting how the Aruban justice system works on CNN. He's really very hot tempered tonight.

Lucky they have the reporter and the defense lawyer to help provide fact type info.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Greetings DF! Big news day huh?


I JUST got home...watching O'Reilly (me gots da DVR) WOW...what DID papa say to Greta that was inconsistent??


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Angie, you may not know this but are there people in Aruba who are like our 911 operators? Maybe everything is channeled through LE...just didn't know.


Kerin.. I cant speak for Aruba 911.. but I know where I live in PA.. it is all basically channeled through the 911 system.. which made me wonder about Aruba and if they have a 911 system as well..!  Thats a good point.. one I cannot answer because I dont know.. in my area.. we knew things before the family itself did.. which made one feel bad..I been there and done that..! If Aruba does have 911.. and IF someone WOULD have called if NH was drugged or needed help.. it would be ALL on a taped line..where investigators could go back and review tapes!
((Nikki) back at yah!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: "coco"
da wench - I missed that - can you rewind that dvr?


this is so scary....no body, no case


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 09:58:53 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: scared-tom on June 24, 2005, 09:59:09 PM
Back when we started , the very first incarnation, which was a total of 7 posts back in 2003, that was our very first post.

T

Thank you all for keeping with these ideals.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Jug is judging VDS' based on their lifestyle. Wonder what goes on in his home?


His anger is overpowering his senses.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 09:59:23 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Jug is judging VDS' based on their lifestyle. Wonder what goes on in his home?


It wouldn't really matter under what circumstances they met each other; Jug + PVDS = massive cultural mismatch.  IMHO, of course.


Title: New Forum Areas!!!!!!!!!
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 09:59:25 PM
Under the SM Index you'll find:

In Natalee Holloway,  the Natalee Holloway Archive.  The forum in locked but you can search til the cows come home...

In General, a new forum for the NJ Missing Boys and the investigation/search details. [/b]


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:00:35 PM
thinking we're like DVR at times here!

and Scared Tom - thank you for providing this very congenial monkey home. I was wondering if you all need some contributions towards bandwidth charges since we're all making ourselves at home 24/7?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:00:53 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Greetings DF! Big news day huh?


I JUST got home...watching O'Reilly (me gots da DVR) WOW...what DID papa say to Greta that was inconsistent??


I know they said that inconsistencies were from Greta's interview but I got the feeling that they might have come from the meeting between BTH and VDS. After the meeting she said that she got confirmation, and that more folks were involved and would be arrested. I felt then that she was talking about something that was said at that meeting which gave her "confirmation" that PVDS was covering something.

But seeing as the conversation wasn't taped and Greta not being law enforcement might make that hearsay, maybe it was something in Greta's interview. But doesn't it seem strange that Greta continues to say don't jump to conclusions, he could have left her on the beach and someone else got her. Plus the deal from Greta about the mystery airline passenger. Hmmm.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Ting on June 24, 2005, 10:01:37 PM
Quote
a caller asked about whether they are checking Natalee's computer for penpals, etc - no clear answer.


If they haven't, they should. Not just to see whether she had talked to Joran specifically, but everybody that she chatted with, especially if she mentioned to them her upcoming trip...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:02:04 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Angie, you may not know this but are there people in Aruba who are like our 911 operators? Maybe everything is channeled through LE...just didn't know.


Kerin.. I cant speak for Aruba 911.. but I know where I live in PA.. it is all basically channeled through the 911 system.. which made me wonder about Aruba and if they have a 911 system as well..!  Thats a good point.. one I cannot answer because I dont know.. in my area.. we knew things before the family itself did.. which made one feel bad..I been there and done that..! If Aruba does have 911.. and IF someone WOULD have called if NH was drugged or needed help.. it would be ALL on a taped line..where investigators could go back and review tapes!
((Nikki) back at yah!




well I know their infrastructure probably does not support anything like we have in the US..

I agree.. the laws are so different... I wish I could have answered your question better...but I dont know.. I could always contact a SUPV out where I worked and ask if thet may know?? I am in very close contact with them all and friend I have there that want me to come back! It would be no problem to find out..they may have an answer or they may not!! I know they are very into this case as well!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Greetings DF! Big news day huh?


I JUST got home...watching O'Reilly (me gots da DVR) WOW...what DID papa say to Greta that was inconsistent??


I know they said that inconsistencies were from Greta's interview but I got the feeling that they might have come from the meeting between BTH and VDS. After the meeting she said that she got confirmation, and that more folks were involved and would be arrested. I felt then that she was talking about something that was said at that meeting which gave her "confirmation" that PVDS was covering something.

But seeing as the conversation wasn't taped and Greta not being law enforcement might make that hearsay, maybe it was something in Greta's interview. But doesn't it seem strange that Greta continues to say don't jump to conclusions, he could have left her on the beach and someone else got her. Plus the deal from Greta about the mystery airline passenger. Hmmm.


I don't understand the "premeditated" murder charge


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:04:37 PM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "coco"
da wench - I missed that - can you rewind that dvr?


this is so scary....no body, no case


Not necessarily....in Dutch law, it can be done, as it was 25 years ago in the Netherlands where someone was convicted WITHOUT the body ever being found.

It just will be so very much more difficult.

Can you tell I watched the news on Fox tonight?  LOL


Be careful...remember when they were saying they found the body in such an informative and convincing way. :wink:  :wink:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 24, 2005, 10:07:25 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
   

... the deal from Greta about the mystery airline passenger. Hmmm.


Yezzz....I wish we could find out more about THAT!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:07:30 PM
note that Joran's attorney on Greta used the same terms when Greta asked how Joran was doing - "He's holding up" so maybe that phrase should not be construed as a negative in the PVDS statement.

PVDS trained Joran's attorney if seems.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:08:05 PM
Greta now interviewing PVDS attorney Antonio Carlo on FOX


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:08:32 PM
((((HUGS)))

Man, what a day! Could NOT get home from work..grrrr first a firetruck got hit, then the roads closed due to an officer being shot and killed  :cry:

Anyhow, is it just me, or does anyone else feel frustrated due to the "english" language understanding barrier, that when these Aruba people are interviewed they get lead into this rabbit hole...almost like they are on the stand as a trial witness... I feel more confused everytime they do an interview. Everything they say is so misconstrued...

Maybe it's just me...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: georgiablues on June 24, 2005, 10:09:15 PM
Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
Back when we started , the very first incarnation, which was a total of 7 posts back in 2003, that was our very first post.

T

Thank you all for keeping with these ideals.



And thank you, Tom, for sharing that post with us!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 10:09:37 PM
Author: ru (---.shv.bellsouth.net)
Date:   06-06-05 22:50

C&C should move back to Mexico. Thought it was not up to Aruba's style of class. Loved everywhere we went in Aruba, people were kind and gracious, but thought C&C reminded us of Tiajuana. Get rid of joints like that and keep the elegance of the island in tact.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: scared-tom on June 24, 2005, 10:10:58 PM
Thanks every one for the kind words.

We are committed till we are committed to helping others. But we are nothing but a couple of blabbering fools without you the members of Scared Monkeys. Your view points, tips, comments, and personalities are what makes this site.

That, combined with the leadership provided by Cat, RB, and Absolut in these forums are making this site a  wonderful place.

So to all, thank you very much. We will work to earn you respect.

Tom and Red


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:11:20 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
((((HUGS)))

Man, what a day! Could NOT get home from work..grrrr first a firetruck got hit, then the roads closed due to an officer being shot and killed  :cry:

Anyhow, is it just me, or does anyone else feel frustrated due to the "english" language understanding barrier, that when these Aruba people are interviewed they get lead into this rabbit hole...almost like they are on the stand as a trial witness... I feel more confused everytime they do an interview. Everything they say is so misconstrued...

Maybe it's just me...


HUGS back at yah Cali.. Sorry about your rough ride home from work.
Relax.. kick off your shoes.. drink a beer..(III)?  I'll share mine.. and I agree with you about being confused .. I am as well.. ughhh


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:11:34 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 10:11:43 PM
Author: JakHamma (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date:   06-16-05 08:01

Carlos and Charlies is great for about 5 minutes. It's sleazy and I agree with the person who said it belongs in Tijuana. Aruba needs a club for the late 20's / thirties crowd. Plus - get rid of the drug dealers in front of Carlos & Charlies.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:11:49 PM
Cali - glad you made it home!

I think you are so right about the language issue. The Arubans are being asked to answer often loaded questions in a language which is not their first - and then we parse and critique each comma. Add in the difficulty of dealing with the difference in legal systems and it's frightening what can get misunderstood.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:14:00 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Greetings DF! Big news day huh?


I JUST got home...watching O'Reilly (me gots da DVR) WOW...what DID papa say to Greta that was inconsistent??


I know they said that inconsistencies were from Greta's interview but I got the feeling that they might have come from the meeting between BTH and VDS. After the meeting she said that she got confirmation, and that more folks were involved and would be arrested. I felt then that she was talking about something that was said at that meeting which gave her "confirmation" that PVDS was covering something.

But seeing as the conversation wasn't taped and Greta not being law enforcement might make that hearsay, maybe it was something in Greta's interview. But doesn't it seem strange that Greta continues to say don't jump to conclusions, he could have left her on the beach and someone else got her. Plus the deal from Greta about the mystery airline passenger. Hmmm.


I don't understand the "premeditated" murder charge


Jug said that they just charge em with the max all of the possible charges and I guess they sort it out later. But he also said that they were all charged with the same thing, and I thought PVDS's was the a lesser charge: complicity in all of the charges.
Does it mean planned or just not done in the "heat of moment, or not involuntary here? And I wonder if pre-meditated means the same thing there that it does here? Anyone??


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Jug is judging VDS' based on their lifestyle. Wonder what goes on in his home?


His anger is overpowering his senses.



That could happen alot.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:14:25 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Ting"


Monkeys will type in straight lines only.


I think you may need to speak to FOM about this  requirement! LOL



okay, so what of any new arrests/inquisitions???
earlier am (after kerin to bed) we learned of Lorenzoe's family biz...
Rob and I thought he'd be next in  jail...
has greta been to his basement...????
what a strange trip that would be!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 10:14:35 PM
Author: George (---.jax.bellsouth.net)
Date:   06-20-05 14:12

Definitely, I got the same bad vibe from C&C. Can't imagine sending my teenage daughter there...especially late at night, but hey. I'd advise Aruba to pick business they want to stay.

Mambo Jambo's was nice, Tatoo was weak in the food dpt, although it was fun, not what I wanted.

Had a good time, just Aruba is experiencing growth pains as their tourism base changes.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:15:04 PM
Hey guys..Earlier I heard that Papa VDS was NOT cooperating with LE while being detained..Does anyone know where that came from and what is being said about it?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 10:15:29 PM
Quote from: "GreatOwl"
Author: JakHamma (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date:   06-16-05 08:01

Carlos and Charlies is great for about 5 minutes. It's sleazy and I agree with the person who said it belongs in Tijuana. Aruba needs a club for the late 20's / thirties crowd. Plus - get rid of the drug dealers in front of Carlos & Charlies.


It is going to be fairly time consuming to copy that other forum here 1 post at time.

I also worry people with attribute the comments to you and possible expect you to defend them.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:16:44 PM
Tom,
At risk of being shunted to the chit-chat room. Ever heard of Albany, GA?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:16:45 PM
Quote from: "coco"
Cali - glad you made it home!

I think you are so right about the language issue. The Arubans are being asked to answer often loaded questions in a language which is not their first - and then we parse and critique each comma. Add in the difficulty of dealing with the difference in legal systems and it's frightening what can get misunderstood.


Don't get me wrong I love Greta but sometimes I just have this urge to slap her and tell her to drop her lawyer routinue.

It's like, okay they speak some english, not US english..ask some short simple questions for pete's sake and stop putting words into their mouths and confusing the crap out of them and the viewers. It's like she tells a whole hearsay conversation repeats it and then asks "is this your knowledge"? Grrr How about.. cut to the chase and more on.. go follow Equusearch or something. They keep going over and over the same old thing..


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:16:47 PM
Greta does a good job with the differences in legal systems - she's the only one who really keeps that front of mind.

Deepak's attorney says all suspects are being interrogated with intense pressure. He also says he is having to protest to get documents, etc which is unusual and that much is odd in how this case is being handled.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:17:22 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..Earlier I heard that Papa VDS was NOT cooperating with LE while being detained..Does anyone know where that came from and what is being said about it?


ask an aruban??? is there a hot-line for that???


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "coco"
Cali - glad you made it home!

I think you are so right about the language issue. The Arubans are being asked to answer often loaded questions in a language which is not their first - and then we parse and critique each comma. Add in the difficulty of dealing with the difference in legal systems and it's frightening what can get misunderstood.


Don't get me wrong I love Greta but sometimes I just have this urge to slap her and tell her to drop her lawyer routinue.

It's like, okay they speak some english, not US english..ask some short simple questions for pete's sake and stop putting words into their mouths and confusing the crap out of them and the viewers. It's like she tells a whole hearsay conversation repeats it and then asks "is this your knowledge"? Grrr How about.. cut to the chase and more on.. go follow Equusearch or something. They keep going over and over the same old thing..


I agree, cali! She's got this poor guy stammering all around..But, I still love ya, Greta!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 10:18:20 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "GreatOwl"
Author: JakHamma (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date:   06-16-05 08:01

Carlos and Charlies is great for about 5 minutes. It's sleazy and I agree with the person who said it belongs in Tijuana. Aruba needs a club for the late 20's / thirties crowd. Plus - get rid of the drug dealers in front of Carlos & Charlies.


It is going to be fairly time consuming to copy that other forum here 1 post at time.

I also worry people with attribute the comments to you and possible expect you to defend them.


Point taken... it is aruba's own tourism site.

http://www.arubatourism.com/


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:18:36 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..Earlier I heard that Papa VDS was NOT cooperating with LE while being detained..Does anyone know where that came from and what is being said about it?


 Havnt heard that..  listening to Deepaks attorney on FOX.. Greta asked him IF one of the kids tells their parent ANYTHING if the parent would have to tell what was heard.. he said NO.. WTF???   These attorneys seem wierd to me.. IMO only.. they damn near all know each other...and if they work there like they do here in PA. they are in cahoots..(however the heck you spell it) with each other.. AGAIN  IMO only.. grrr!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
((((HUGS)))

Man, what a day! Could NOT get home from work..grrrr first a firetruck got hit, then the roads closed due to an officer being shot and killed  :cry:

Anyhow, is it just me, or does anyone else feel frustrated due to the "english" language understanding barrier, that when these Aruba people are interviewed they get lead into this rabbit hole...almost like they are on the stand as a trial witness... I feel more confused everytime they do an interview. Everything they say is so misconstrued...

Maybe it's just me...


{{{{CALI}}}} No it's not just you. Laguage barriers are very much a part of this case!!


IS 'NO SHIT'  still international????


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 24, 2005, 10:19:58 PM
I think you are so right about the language issue. The Arubans are being asked to answer often loaded questions in a language which is not their first - and then we parse and critique each comma. Add in the difficulty of dealing with the difference in legal systems and it's frightening what can get misunderstood.[/quote]

Thank you,,my thoughts exactly.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: icey on June 24, 2005, 10:20:14 PM
>>>I don't understand the "premeditated" murder charge.

The charges of premeditated and kidnaping sound like perhaps Natalee did not OD on the beach but became "hesterical" after or during the attack and was taken from the scene and killed.  

I think the rumor that Natalee was "hysterical" has been made here, along with a rumor of a girl being forcably being removed from the beach.

Also, perhaps drugging someone whos ends up OD'ing constitutes premeditation. But if that was the case, where does the kidnaping charge come from?

icey


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: AzRose on June 24, 2005, 10:21:09 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..Earlier I heard that Papa VDS was NOT cooperating with LE while being detained..Does anyone know where that came from and what is being said about it?


You probably read what I read.  Carl Penhall of CNN cited "inside source", whoever that is supposed to be.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:22:11 PM
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Tila_Bean on June 24, 2005, 10:22:32 PM
I cannot concentrate on the interview with Nat's aunt while that music is blasting in the background.  :lol:  :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 24, 2005, 10:22:58 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "coco"
Cali - glad you made it home!

I think you are so right about the language issue. The Arubans are being asked to answer often loaded questions in a language which is not their first - and then we parse and critique each comma. Add in the difficulty of dealing with the difference in legal systems and it's frightening what can get misunderstood.


Don't get me wrong I love Greta but sometimes I just have this urge to slap her and tell her to drop her lawyer routinue.

It's like, okay they speak some english, not US english..ask some short simple questions for pete's sake and stop putting words into their mouths and confusing the crap out of them and the viewers. It's like she tells a whole hearsay conversation repeats it and then asks "is this your knowledge"? Grrr How about.. cut to the chase and more on.. go follow Equusearch or something. They keep going over and over the same old thing..


...sigh...ah, yes.  Maybe that explains the "exhaustion" I'm feeling with the litany of patter with the presentation of this case.  FOX does it wall-to-wall and the others contribute their almost obligatory cut to their one correspondent who tells us what the AP just reported


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 10:23:15 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
((hi all)) ...

some 'dutch junkie monkey'is back again...tried to sleep and then thunder stroke in the neighbourhood by the way just as Larry King started...I thought ok let`s put my computer on again..... :oops:


Hey Hannie..!!  Question for you if you can answer it.. !! Do you know if Aruba has a 911 system?? AND if so .. is it channeled through the LE???


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:24:30 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...


Was wondering If i was the only one laughing at that..LOL..dang...
did anyone else hear Shepard smith say, "THAT is WACK" the other night after an interview?? LOLOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 10:24:46 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
((((HUGS)))

Anyhow, is it just me, or does anyone else feel frustrated due to the "english" language understanding barrier, that when these Aruba people are interviewed they get lead into this rabbit hole...almost like they are on the stand as a trial witness... I feel more confused everytime they do an interview. Everything they say is so misconstrued...

Maybe it's just me...
Put feet up and de-stress, in whichever manner you prefer.  At least you aren't in St. Louis where they have smoke all in the air and exploding oxygen tanks.

I can dig it.  The language thing evokes feelings ranging from hilariious to riduculous to maddening.  Simple phrases get all bent out of shape, engendering all manner of linguistic misinterpretations.  This is my favorite from today:  "the 17 whose birth day it is..." (meaning "the 17-year-old") and so on for everyone whose age was mentioned in the article.  

Some of the English-Papiamento tranlation sources are so clueless that I begin to think I might consider a career change and learn Papiamento.  It's easier to read Papiamento itself than an bad translation.  One of the few positive things to come out of this saddness, speaking for myself alone, is the awareness of the Arubian culture and a desire to know more.  I believe it was Iquitos who explained that their particular language was an offshoot of the Jewish exodus from Andalusia, sometime in the 15's (I hope I remembered that correctly).  What a beautiful people.

The misunderstandings  because of the language barrier take place on both sides of it, as we can tell from reading some of the Aruba posts.  

Oh, another crazy-maker:  trying to do any sort of search on people from Aruba.  I'm not doing very well with descriptors, thinking maybe if I could use the word in Papiamento my results would be better (but then, I wouldn't be able to read them).  I have tried every permutation I could imagine to find info on Lorenzo van Rijg, or van Gijn, whichever spelling you choose.  


I ramble.  To sum it up:  YES, I share your frustration, at the same time feeling like we've come out of the rabbit hole and are already at the Madhatter's Tea Party.

Please excuse me for going on so long~but it's a subject I'd bend pondering.[/i]


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:25:10 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:26:28 PM
Quote from: "AzRose"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..Earlier I heard that Papa VDS was NOT cooperating with LE while being detained..Does anyone know where that came from and what is being said about it?


You probably read what I read.  Carl Penhall of CNN cited "inside source", whoever that is supposed to be.


If I had a quarter for every inside source story, I could afford to go to Aruba, darn it.  :lol:  :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Daniel on June 24, 2005, 10:26:38 PM
Quote from: "icey"
Also, perhaps drugging someone whos ends up OD'ing constitutes premeditation. But if that was the case, where does the kidnaping charge come from?

Possibly from drugging her at C&C's, then driving off with her while she was somewhat incapacitated?

Meanwhile, what's this story about a CourtTV report about someone else from the Alabama flights and staying at the HI being missing? That could shed an entirely new light on the whole affair. Apparently Greta would address this, but I haven't heard anything about it yet.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 10:26:44 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...


 I heard that! Love the song, of course that was another time in my life. I guess it is Paaaaaaaarrrrtttttttyyyyyyy Time......... it is friday!

But odd for this story.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:27:01 PM
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:27:16 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


I personally think its a wee bit inappropriate..I mean, "do you think she's dead?" "CARIBBEAN QUEEN, Now w'ere sharing the same dream"" How Is Jug" "and our hearts still beat as one..no more love on the run"".....damn..


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:27:18 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 10:27:47 PM
I have no idea if the arubians have such a system, but they problably have some kind of helplines just as we here have. To be honest I don`t really know how extended your 911 system is and what you excactly mean.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 10:28:11 PM
Aunt Twitty:

"and of course, he wasn't home, he was at a casino".....

OMG how flippin awful!!  

and........."why would he tell his son not to say anything?"

He's a lawyer, why wouldn't he advise his son not to talk!! Joran's own lawyer said he doesn't agree that he is not present during initial interrogation!  

This family is beginning to irritate me with the way they are judging this family!  We all want the best for our kids, and we all make mistakes...


Glass Houses Twitty's, Glass Houses!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:28:18 PM
I just want to go to Aruba, take a microphone and start bopping people on the head LMAO I woulnd't get mych airtime as the "agressive" reporter! lol First I would standup and yell.."Hey %^&*^%&#, I'm trying to do a dang interview..can you stop partying for a stinking minute? Thanks" Then throw up a peace sign jk  :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 10:28:20 PM
My heart goes out to them. Aunt Linda is a good rep in portraying painful father's day for nat's dad. Gut-wrenching.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 10:28:46 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
maybe all the moms in this case need to ban together and kick the **** out of the men in their lives. Beth can beat Jug over the head for what I think are his ignorance of other cultures....having not one bit of consideration for the language barriers. Mrs. Kalpoe just needs to beat her husband around for the heck of it.  :) And Mrs. VDS...well she maybe needs to pull a Lorena (anniversary of that was yesterday BTW) and then she needs to kick Joran's butt too...


I hear ya, girl..I think I'll kick mine's a** just because i dont like the way he looks sometimes...LOL
I mean, here i am, VERY involved in what I am doing, and he yells to me, meaning to ask have I ever see LOST IN YONKERS, and says"Have you ever been lost in yonkers??"..Sometimes, kicking his a** aint all thats on my mind...LOL


OK...so we agree...BIG OLE HUSBAND BUTT KICKING SESSION is what is needed!!  :D


Carefull ladies, you all might end up like Natalee... :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:29:25 PM
Hubby hasnt been following case..just asks time to time, "whats new?"
Now he;'s sitting on the couch and says, "ya think they couldve given her a date rape drug?" LOLOL..umm..i think we've already asked that, dont you monkeys??What 5000 posts ago?? :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 10:29:40 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


right?! Like oh my god (WW's best valleygirl impression)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Louise on June 24, 2005, 10:31:36 PM
I guess it is so horrible not knowing where Natalee is and beginning to think she is dead that one might be judgemental. I do believe they believe Joran did what happened that made her missing.

Judgementalism is not the same as killng someone, wouldn't you agree.

If I were in their shoes, I might be judging them myself.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:32:02 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
I have no idea if the arubians have such a system, but they problably have some kind of helplines just as we here have. To be honest I don`t really know how extended your 911 system is and what you excactly mean.


Thanks Hannie...   Not that we have an extended 911 system.. but the calls go though the LE agencies.. all calls are recorded..incase investiagtors need to review a case.. its all on tape.. just wondered how different parts of the world are with 911 calls..!!  Thanks!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "HannieC"
((hi all)) ...

some 'dutch junkie monkey'is back again...tried to sleep and then thunder stroke in the neighbourhood by the way just as Larry King started...I thought ok let`s put my computer on again..... :oops:


Hey Hannie..!!  Question for you if you can answer it.. !! Do you know if Aruba has a 911 system?? AND if so .. is it channeled through the LE???


it is probably channeled and filtered accordingly ...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:34:18 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
coco wrote:



Quote
Hannie - welcome back!  ty :wink:

You can join the party at Greta's hotel - it is amazingly loud!


I can`t recieve any of the newschannels form the US, only cnn international, so i`m glad you all fill me in when greta is on etc..


Hannie, we got reruns of Greta's interview with the Kalpoes' mom...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 10:34:29 PM
was it ever determined who "Lorenzo" was?  I may have missed that posting.  The reason I ask is that I ran across a reference and a quote from a Captain Lorenzo who has a deep sea fishing boat.

Of course, I am sure there as many Lorenzo's with boats in Aruba as there are owl's in Wisconsin.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 10:35:27 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..Earlier I heard that Papa VDS was NOT cooperating with LE while being detained..Does anyone know where that came from and what is being said about it?


ask an aruban??? is there a hot-line for that???
Start one, FOM!  Find a partner from Aruba and you might really having something.


Title: Hola
Post by: Microcephalic on June 24, 2005, 10:36:21 PM
One point of great interest to me is who Jovorkian left the beach with.  If he left with the elder Van der Sweatsalot and ďsomething badĒ, at least an act perpetrated or witnessed by Jovorkian, happened then it follows that his father is complicit or at least has knowledge.  If  he left with his father and he left her on the beach intact, as he apparently maintains, then obviously there is nothing for the father to be complicit in other than lying.  On the other hand, if either Deepdish or Saliva provided transportation from the beach then they either know what happened and/or are complicit in the coverup and or disposal.

Of course, we do not even know, with any certainty, that young Van der Slut was left on the beach with her in the first place.  We only have the statements of the boys themselves and second hand accounts thereof.  If Dipshit and Salacious did indeed drop them off at the beach in close proximity to the hotels it is unlikely that Jordache had any plan to engage in foul play and either he left her there passed out or whatever happened was accidental or perpetrated by a third party.  Based upon all the information that I have learned, I believe that they were indeed dropped off at the beach near the hotels.

I have also not heard any discussion, assuming that there was a disposal, regarding the logistics of this area and the feasibility of dragging a body to their vehicle without being seen or leaving tracks or some sort of evidence.

There is no evidence of any sort of drug use be it voluntary or otherwise.  The speculation regarding the drug overdose amazes me, particularly in light of the descriptions given of her condition upon leaving Crackhouse and Colmes.

I further gather, based on the fact that the local authorities are still mired down in trying to trip up these people in the details of the stories and that the elder Van der Hosen was arrested based on some trivial statement made to Gretsel Van Slurredspeach that they really donít have much of a case.  As the talking heads are now saying, without a body and or a confession these guys will all walk.

Like most everyone else here I know very little about what actually happened.  I do know with certainty that the media is doing everyone a disservice in this case by disseminating false and misleading information, placing themselves in the middle of the story and engaging in massive speculation.  Greyhair Van My Mouth is Crooked should shut up and go home.  I also canít help but think to myself that Aruba is somewhat less than my idea of a tropical paradise, at least from the images I am seeing, although it might be worth a trip just to score some X and then hang out at the garbage filled quarry behind Deepshitís house.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:36:30 PM
I haven't searched thru all of todays post but what about the point Greta is trying to make that PVDS had to 'go one step further' than just be told by his son something happened. I keep getting this feeling that the first night the Twittys were there, he led them away from the house because Natallies body was there...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 10:36:33 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
maybe all the moms in this case need to ban together and kick the **** out of the men in their lives. Beth can beat Jug over the head for what I think are his ignorance of other cultures....having not one bit of consideration for the language barriers. Mrs. Kalpoe just needs to beat her husband around for the heck of it.  :) And Mrs. VDS...well she maybe needs to pull a Lorena (anniversary of that was yesterday BTW) and then she needs to kick Joran's butt too...


I hear ya, girl..I think I'll kick mine's a** just because i dont like the way he looks sometimes...LOL
I mean, here i am, VERY involved in what I am doing, and he yells to me, meaning to ask have I ever see LOST IN YONKERS, and says"Have you ever been lost in yonkers??"..Sometimes, kicking his a** aint all thats on my mind...LOL


OK...so we agree...BIG OLE HUSBAND BUTT KICKING SESSION is what is needed!!  :D


Carefull ladies, you all might end up like Natalee... :shock:


:::wondering how Inspector would know how Natalee "ended up"::::



:::calling the feds to check out inspector:::


No, call the Aruban police. They're good at not finding any evidence! :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: heartache on June 24, 2005, 10:36:35 PM
so I am assuming then... that if you HAD a daughter and she was missing... you would behaving so much more civilized than Jug. HUH.  I guess you really live up to that screenname of yours. Glass house, baby.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: a Troll on June 24, 2005, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Jug is judging VDS' based on their lifestyle. Wonder what goes on in his home?


If  this ever goes to trial, they'll just play back all of Jughead's interviews, and there will be reasonable doubt as to whether NH ran away to get away from her abusive stepfather  :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 10:37:18 PM
Oh is that what you meant angie, ok if aruba has such helplines they problably also tape the phonecall yes, b/c that is the way it goes in the netherlands also and the lines are also connected with firedepartments, ambulances etc.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "heartache"
Hey WW... got kids?


Oh yes, 3 boys  10,17,19


I'm impressed! You can still get in that costume. You go, Girl.


C'mon, now Paula!! You look good too girl..Lookin' all svelte in your little black dress... :wink:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 10:38:09 PM
Quote from: "Louise"
I guess it is so horrible not knowing where Natalee is and beginning to think she is dead that one might be judgemental. I do believe they believe Joran did what happened that made her missing.

Judgementalism is not the same as killng someone, wouldn't you agree.

If I were in their shoes, I might be judging them myself.



I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: ExTexinAZ on June 24, 2005, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
I cannot concentrate on the interview with Nat's aunt while that music is blasting in the background.  :lol:  :shock:


Last night it was the rooster in the interview with the brothers' mom.  Or was that the monkey? :wink:

We need to install monkey emoticons.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:38:51 PM
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..Earlier I heard that Papa VDS was NOT cooperating with LE while being detained..Does anyone know where that came from and what is being said about it?


ask an aruban??? is there a hot-line for that???
Start one, FOM!  Find a partner from Aruba and you might really having something.


guess what...even he isn't talking!!! :roll:


Title: Re: Hola
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 24, 2005, 10:39:11 PM
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
One point of great interest to me is who Jovorkian left the beach with.  If he left with the elder Van der Sweatsalot and ďsomething badĒ, at least an act perpetrated or witnessed by Jovorkian, happened then it follows that his father is complicit or at least has knowledge.  If  he left with his father and he left her on the beach intact, as he apparently maintains, then obviously there is nothing for the father to be complicit in other than lying.  On the other hand, if either Deepdish or Saliva provided transportation from the beach then they either know what happened and/or are complicit in the coverup and or disposal.

Of course, we do not even know, with any certainty, that young Van der Slut was left on the beach with her in the first place.  We only have the statements of the boys themselves and second hand accounts thereof.  If Dipshit and Salacious did indeed drop them off at the beach in close proximity to the hotels it is unlikely that Jordache had any plan to engage in foul play and either he left her there passed out or whatever happened was accidental or perpetrated by a third party.  Based upon all the information that I have learned, I believe that they were indeed dropped off at the beach near the hotels.

I have also not heard any discussion, assuming that there was a disposal, regarding the logistics of this area and the feasibility of dragging a body to their vehicle without being seen or leaving tracks or some sort of evidence.

There is no evidence of any sort of drug use be it voluntary or otherwise.  The speculation regarding the drug overdose amazes me, particularly in light of the descriptions given of her condition upon leaving Crackhouse and Colmes.

I further gather, based on the fact that the local authorities are still mired down in trying to trip up these people in the details of the stories and that the elder Van der Hosen was arrested based on some trivial statement made to Gretsel Van Slurredspeach that they really donít have much of a case.  As the talking heads are now saying, without a body and or a confession these guys will all walk.

Like most everyone else here I know very little about what actually happened.  I do know with certainty that the media is doing everyone a disservice in this case by disseminating false and misleading information, placing themselves in the middle of the story and engaging in massive speculation.  Greyhair Van My Mouth is Crooked should shut up and go home.  I also canít help but think to myself that Aruba is somewhat less than my idea of a tropical paradise, at least from the images I am seeing, although it might be worth a trip just to score some X and then hang out at the garbage filled quarry behind Deepshitís house.


LOL!!!!!! We're a dangerous bunch with idle time. LOl!!!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 10:39:23 PM
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
I just want to go to Aruba, take a microphone and start bopping people on the head LMAO I woulnd't get mych airtime as the "agressive" reporter! lol First I would standup and yell.."Hey %^&*^%&#, I'm trying to do a dang interview..can you stop partying for a stinking minute? Thanks" Then throw up a peace sign jk  :lol:


HiCali, if yask me you seem ta be OUTTA CONTROL!   :P  :P

Hey!  I wuz jes kiddin!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: CaliGirl on June 24, 2005, 10:40:23 PM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?


Hey I used to go out and be a hellion lol. Just my mom was so naive she always bought the story that the clock in my car must has stopped because even though I was 2 hours late for curfew.. it said the correct curfew time... ::wonders if my mom has figured out the internet and is reading this LMAO::::: Sorry mom... lol


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"


I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


WonderWoman I think you may be to close to this too.
Where did you get that email from?
You seem awfully defensive.
Also since when is drinking into the wee hours of the night a crime?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Red on June 24, 2005, 10:40:32 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


Like a bad episode of Miami Vice. (Assuming that there were any good ones)

Lets just thank god they were not playing ...

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beach-Boys/Kokomo.html


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?


Well JVDS and his mom did paint the mural. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


Like a bad episode of Miami Vice. (Assuming that there were any good ones)

Lets just thank god they were not playing ...

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beach-Boys/Kokomo.html




OMG>>THEY ARE PLAYING STAYIN"ALIVE!!!!!!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:42:04 PM
RED!!! that was truly evil - I didn't even need to listen to it to have that song begin nonstop repeat in my brain ...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Louise on June 24, 2005, 10:42:06 PM
I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!




I didn't format it right! Sorry. If those parents were not "so close" to this investigation there would be no investigation. And the last persn known to be seen with a young woman who is missing, when that last person keeps lying and lying,,,well to suspect he did something does not require a great leap.

I don't understand your comment about Nat drinking till the wee hours. What does that mean? She isn't suspected of murdering anyone. She has never been in anger management. She isn't the criminal here.

You are mighty quick to blame the parents of this woman. The hell they are in seems to make me give them a wide berth. I would be screaming mad myself.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:42:14 PM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?


He said that on FOX about 30 minutes or so ago.. I think others on here heard the same thing as I did!! Im sure it will be repeated again on tv!!
Im not sticking up for JVDS by all means.. Just mentioned that teens arnt perfect.....!!  If there is a perfect teen out there.. Id LOVE to meet them in person!!  But it was on Fox.. it was JUG who said it!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:42:46 PM
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"


I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


WonderWoman I think you may be to close to this too.
Where did you get that email from?
You seem awfully defensive.
Also since when is drinking into the wee hours of the night a crime?


i think they put up a new thread for that didn't they????


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 10:43:00 PM
Quote from: "GreatOwl"
was it ever determined who "Lorenzo" was?  I may have missed that posting.  The reason I ask is that I ran across a reference and a quote from a Captain Lorenzo who has a deep sea fishing boat.

Of course, I am sure there as many Lorenzo's with boats in Aruba as there are owl's in Wisconsin.
Please, give up the goods!  What web address?

All I've found are the references to a car rental company (under name van Rijn)

I keep scouring all the photo sites to see if I might recognize someone who could be Lorenzo, which is crazy because I have no idea what he might possibly look like.

Only know what I knew in the first place:  Lorenzo van Rijn (aka van Gijn) is rumored (stress on rumored) to be the illegitimate son of PDVS, born prior to his marriage to Anita.  One source mentioned they were close to each other.  I've also heard him described as crazy, into drugs, and fond of spraypainting his house.  His (step) father is rumored to have had problems with drugs and to have committed suicide several years ago.  

Why I feel like he's more connected than not, I really don't know, but I do.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 10:43:41 PM
Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
Thanks every one for the kind words.

We are committed till we are committed to helping others. But we are nothing but a couple of blabbering fools without you the members of Scared Monkeys. Your view points, tips, comments, and personalities are what makes this site.

That, combined with the leadership provided by Cat, RB, and Absolut in these forums are making this site a  wonderful place.

So to all, thank you very much. We will work to earn you respect.

Tom and Red




Hey Tom and Red, can you say which came first, THE MONKIES OR THE JUNKIES????
Jes wonnerin? :D


Who cares who came first as long as we go together!


Seems you maya missed my drift.  That was a chicken or egg questern!  NO FENCE! :oops:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Ting on June 24, 2005, 10:43:50 PM
Quote
You are mighty quick to blame the parents of this woman


If it's any consolation, I saw someone on another website blaming the Runaway Bride.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:43:53 PM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


Like a bad episode of Miami Vice. (Assuming that there were any good ones)

Lets just thank god they were not playing ...

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beach-Boys/Kokomo.html


dude - it's stayin' alive now...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 10:43:54 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
 
Does it mean planned or just not done in the "heat of moment, or not involuntary here? And I wonder if pre-meditated means the same thing there that it does here? Anyone??


It means, with malice aforethought.  If they have reasonable suspicion that Natalee was drugged (Steve-Deepak-Joran connection) with the intent to commit a crime (kidnapping/rape), then that constitutes premeditation.
 
Even if Natalee's death was an unintentional accident, if someone dies while in the commission of a felony, it is, legally, murder.

If an armed robber walks into a convenient store, tells everyone to drop to the ground, and steals $100 from the register and leaves.  That robber, who had not intentions of killing anyone, can now be charged in the 1st degree murder of the 80-year old woman in the store who was terrified and dropped dead of a massive heart attack.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Aunt Twitty:

"and of course, he wasn't home, he was at a casino".....

OMG how flippin awful!!  

and........."why would he tell his son not to say anything?"

He's a lawyer, why wouldn't he advise his son not to talk!! Joran's own lawyer said he doesn't agree that he is not present during initial interrogation!  

This family is beginning to irritate me with the way they are judging this family!  We all want the best for our kids, and we all make mistakes...


Glass Houses Twitty's, Glass Houses!!!


OK girlfriend I don't want to fight but:

Quote
KackyLacky
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject:    
OK I have not taken sides so to speak, but By God if this was my daughter I guess I would be considered a cowgirl, because I would leave no stone unturned. If this was my son, and I have one who is in Iraq as we speak, I would ORDER him to talk to the parents of a girl who came to my door in the middle of the night saying he was the last known person with her. I would MAKE him tell what he knew.......no if ands or buts, and if it incriminated him, then I would deal with that then.


and i stand by that to this minute.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


who was here last night who said that
 :?:  "innocent people don't play musical alibies???


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:45:13 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
((((HUGS)))

Anyhow, is it just me, or does anyone else feel frustrated due to the "english" language understanding barrier, that when these Aruba people are interviewed they get lead into this rabbit hole...almost like they are on the stand as a trial witness... I feel more confused everytime they do an interview. Everything they say is so misconstrued...

Maybe it's just me...
Put feet up and de-stress, in whichever manner you prefer.  At least you aren't in St. Louis where they have smoke all in the air and exploding oxygen tanks.

I can dig it.  The language thing evokes feelings ranging from hilariious to riduculous to maddening.  Simple phrases get all bent out of shape, engendering all manner of linguistic misinterpretations.  This is my favorite from today:  "the 17 whose birth day it is..." (meaning "the 17-year-old") and so on for everyone whose age was mentioned in the article.  

Some of the English-Papiamento tranlation sources are so clueless that I begin to think I might consider a career change and learn Papiamento.  It's easier to read Papiamento itself than an bad translation.  One of the few positive things to come out of this saddness, speaking for myself alone, is the awareness of the Arubian culture and a desire to know more.  I believe it was Iquitos who explained that their particular language was an offshoot of the Jewish exodus from Andalusia, sometime in the 15's (I hope I remembered that correctly).  What a beautiful people.

The misunderstandings  because of the language barrier take place on both sides of it, as we can tell from reading some of the Aruba posts.  

Oh, another crazy-maker:  trying to do any sort of search on people from Aruba.  I'm not doing very well with descriptors, thinking maybe if I could use the word in Papiamento my results would be better (but then, I wouldn't be able to read them).  I have tried every permutation I could imagine to find info on Lorenzo van Rijg, or van Gijn, whichever spelling you choose.  


I ramble.  To sum it up:  YES, I share your frustration, at the same time feeling like we've come out of the rabbit hole and are already at the Madhatter's Tea Party.

Please excuse me for going on so long~but it's a subject I'd bend pondering.[/i]

Lausa, alot of the posters here can help you when you are trying to serach for info. like that


Me too . I pulled up VGB Security site. I think it's in Dutch and translation made absolutely no sense. DOn't know what I thought I would find anyway. The only thing I could find is there is a rene van heijerwhatever that plays in tennis tournaments. The rest of them just google to blogs.... could find nothing on lorenzo except somebody from Aruba on Riehlworl connecting him with a guy from WIS or MI ( I can't remember) that lives in Aruba who has a naughty site advertising prostitution svc (I guess I meant escort) in Aruba. THey were tying that to the porn tapes that Geraldo brought up. max arends site has photo pictures of friends and one of those is connected to a weird, slightly sleazy looking dirty old man named Marten who has about 1700 pictures of young girls on his site. I just couldn't quite bring myself to open a tickle account so I could drill down on the pictures and comments.  Never could find reference to the almost decapitation except on blogs.
And they call this the world wide web?? I want real links not blogs, darn it. I'm in the cyber sleuth mode and I'm reduced to reading Bryan's predictions. I guess I need a life.... :wink:   :)  :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: pinto on June 24, 2005, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: "Daniel"
...
Meanwhile, what's this story about a CourtTV report about someone else from the Alabama flights and staying at the HI being missing? That could shed an entirely new light on the whole affair. Apparently Greta would address this, but I haven't heard anything about it yet.


Huh? I haven't heard this one yet -- not that I've read everything.

Details?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 10:45:35 PM
Quote from: "heartache"
so I am assuming then... that if you HAD a daughter and she was missing... you would behaving so much more civilized than Jug. HUH.  I guess you really live up to that screenname of yours. Glass house, baby.


heartache, I can certainly say that I would not act as he is....because BULLYING people gets you nowhere, c'mon that's a given....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 10:45:41 PM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


Like a bad episode of Miami Vice. (Assuming that there were any good ones)

Lets just thank god they were not playing ...

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beach-Boys/Kokomo.html


Hey when I get to Aruba I am dressing up as Don Johnson, and listening to Jan Hammer on my IPOD. After this case Aruba will need tourism the way NY did after 911.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Ting on June 24, 2005, 10:46:04 PM
Quote
Aunt Twitty


Natalee seems to have a vast array of aunts.

I think we need a family tree.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:46:11 PM
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: TTownMike on June 24, 2005, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?


He said that on FOX about 30 minutes or so ago.. I think others on here heard the same thing as I did!! Im sure it will be repeated again on tv!!
Im not sticking up for JVDS by all means.. Just mentioned that teens arnt perfect.....!!  If there is a perfect teen out there.. Id LOVE to meet them in person!!  But it was on Fox.. it was JUG who said it!
I aint stinkin up fer him either, but when I was a teen ever gilr I took someplace always got back alive!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:46:26 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"


I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


WonderWoman I think you may be to close to this too.
Where did you get that email from?
You seem awfully defensive.
Also since when is drinking into the wee hours of the night a crime?


i think they put up a new thread for that didn't they????


We sure did.  Comments and debate about the "email" go here:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 10:46:36 PM
Louise wrote:

Quote
You are mighty quick to blame the parents of this woman. The hell they are in seems to make me give them a wide berth. I would be screaming mad myself.



There are a lot of people here that are mighty quick to put the blames on joran , his parents and the rest in custody!! As far as we ALL know the only thing so far he`s quilty of is lying not murder... In those circumstances I don`t think he`s the only one who would lie if you been the "supposed" last to see a girl who dissapeared.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 10:47:33 PM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?



I am sure those pictures have MANY of the same people in them!! They are kids' with an adult atmosphere surrounding them.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:47:50 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
BULLYING people gets you nowhere, c'mon that's a given....

Maybe in your world...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
((((HUGS)))

Anyhow, is it just me, or does anyone else feel frustrated due to the "english" language understanding barrier, that when these Aruba people are interviewed they get lead into this rabbit hole...almost like they are on the stand as a trial witness... I feel more confused everytime they do an interview. Everything they say is so misconstrued...

Maybe it's just me...
Put feet up and de-stress, in whichever manner you prefer.  At least you aren't in St. Louis where they have smoke all in the air and exploding oxygen tanks.

I can dig it.  The language thing evokes feelings ranging from hilariious to riduculous to maddening.  Simple phrases get all bent out of shape, engendering all manner of linguistic misinterpretations.  This is my favorite from today:  "the 17 whose birth day it is..." (meaning "the 17-year-old") and so on for everyone whose age was mentioned in the article.  

Some of the English-Papiamento tranlation sources are so clueless that I begin to think I might consider a career change and learn Papiamento.  It's easier to read Papiamento itself than an bad translation.  One of the few positive things to come out of this saddness, speaking for myself alone, is the awareness of the Arubian culture and a desire to know more.  I believe it was Iquitos who explained that their particular language was an offshoot of the Jewish exodus from Andalusia, sometime in the 15's (I hope I remembered that correctly).  What a beautiful people.

The misunderstandings  because of the language barrier take place on both sides of it, as we can tell from reading some of the Aruba posts.  

Oh, another crazy-maker:  trying to do any sort of search on people from Aruba.  I'm not doing very well with descriptors, thinking maybe if I could use the word in Papiamento my results would be better (but then, I wouldn't be able to read them).  I have tried every permutation I could imagine to find info on Lorenzo van Rijg, or van Gijn, whichever spelling you choose.  


I ramble.  To sum it up:  YES, I share your frustration, at the same time feeling like we've come out of the rabbit hole and are already at the Madhatter's Tea Party.

Please excuse me for going on so long~but it's a subject I'd bend pondering.[/i]

Lausa, alot of the posters here can help you when you are trying to serach for info. like that


Me too . I pulled up VGB Security site. I think it's in Dutch and translation made absolutely no sense. DOn't know what I thought I would find anyway. The only thing I could find is there is a rene van heijerwhatever that plays in tennis tournaments. The rest of them just google to blogs.... could find nothing on lorenzo except somebody from Aruba on Riehlworl connecting him with a guy from WIS or MI ( I can't remember) that lives in Aruba who has a naughty site advertising prostitution svc (I guess I meant escort) in Aruba. THey were tying that to the porn tapes that Geraldo brought up. max arends site has photo pictures of friends and one of those is connected to a weird, slightly sleazy looking dirty old man named Marten who has about 1700 pictures of young girls on his site. I just couldn't quite bring myself to open a tickle account so I could drill down on the pictures and comments.  Never could find reference to the almost decapitation except on blogs.
And they call this the world wide web?? I want real links not blogs, darn it. I'm in the cyber sleuth mode and I'm reduced to reading Bryan's predictions. I guess I need a life.... :wink:   :)  :)



Seems like you got a good grip on it...
still more questions than answers


Title: Re: Hola
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 10:48:05 PM
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
One point of great interest to me is who Jovorkian left the beach with.  If he left with the elder Van der Sweatsalot and ďsomething badĒ, at least an act perpetrated or witnessed by Jovorkian, happened then it follows that his father is complicit or at least has knowledge.  If  he left with his father and he left her on the beach intact, as he apparently maintains, then obviously there is nothing for the father to be complicit in other than lying.  On the other hand, if either Deepdish or Saliva provided transportation from the beach then they either know what happened and/or are complicit in the coverup and or disposal.

Of course, we do not even know, with any certainty, that young Van der Slut was left on the beach with her in the first place.  We only have the statements of the boys themselves and second hand accounts thereof.  If Dipshit and Salacious did indeed drop them off at the beach in close proximity to the hotels it is unlikely that Jordache had any plan to engage in foul play and either he left her there passed out or whatever happened was accidental or perpetrated by a third party.  Based upon all the information that I have learned, I believe that they were indeed dropped off at the beach near the hotels.

I have also not heard any discussion, assuming that there was a disposal, regarding the logistics of this area and the feasibility of dragging a body to their vehicle without being seen or leaving tracks or some sort of evidence.

There is no evidence of any sort of drug use be it voluntary or otherwise.  The speculation regarding the drug overdose amazes me, particularly in light of the descriptions given of her condition upon leaving Crackhouse and Colmes.

I further gather, based on the fact that the local authorities are still mired down in trying to trip up these people in the details of the stories and that the elder Van der Hosen was arrested based on some trivial statement made to Gretsel Van Slurredspeach that they really donít have much of a case.  As the talking heads are now saying, without a body and or a confession these guys will all walk.

Like most everyone else here I know very little about what actually happened.  I do know with certainty that the media is doing everyone a disservice in this case by disseminating false and misleading information, placing themselves in the middle of the story and engaging in massive speculation.  Greyhair Van My Mouth is Crooked should shut up and go home.  I also canít help but think to myself that Aruba is somewhat less than my idea of a tropical paradise, at least from the images I am seeing, although it might be worth a trip just to score some X and then hang out at the garbage filled quarry behind Deepshitís house.


A very thoughtfull and funny account of Yora Van Derslut, Deepshitpak, and Satishsomeshitwerin :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 10:48:50 PM
Just curious guys.... what party and music are you all talking about :? ?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:48:56 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 10:48:59 PM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?


Let's face it, Joran is spoiled rotten.  Some kids can handle the freedom, some can't.  Joran overindulges...well he DID...and he thought he could get away with murder...oooops..did I say that?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:49:05 PM
Ting or anyone - on the Aunt point

The aunt who was just on with Greta kept saying something about her brother - is that Jug or father or someone else? anyone know?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: "icey"
where does the kidnaping charge come from?

icey


Kidnapping, in a legal sense, does not necessarily mean a child abducted and held for ransom.  

In Natalee's case, being drugged against her will and transported anywhere constitutes kidnapping.

If she said, 'drop me off at the Holiday Inn', and Joran said, 'Deepak, take us to my house, and she objects; from that moment forward, both Deepak and Joran are legally conspiring to kidnap Natalee.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:49:38 PM
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
BULLYING people gets you nowhere, c'mon that's a given....

Maybe in your world...


Perf - play nice or leave.  Move on, people.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: heartache on June 24, 2005, 10:50:06 PM
Uh... I would hardly term NH 's stepfather and husband of Beth's, behaviour thus far as "bullying". You called him annoying.  Which is frankly, beyond annoying.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: deb73 on June 24, 2005, 10:50:22 PM
Hi everyone! I'm watching Nancy Grace, and what's this about a lake being searched today? They also talked to Natalee's aunt (her dad's sister) that the owner of the Tattoo won't hand over the logs of whether the party boat was out the night she went missing. I thought they said before that it did go out that night? The more I read and watch, the more confused I get and I've been following this from the beginning!
 :?

BTW, x911, I'm only about 5-10 miles from you, I could run over some smokes  :D


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:50:31 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"


I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


WonderWoman I think you may be to close to this too.
Where did you get that email from?
You seem awfully defensive.
Also since when is drinking into the wee hours of the night a crime?


i think they put up a new thread for that didn't they????


We sure did.  Comments and debate about the "email" go here:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223

ok for those that didn't understand my post, WonderWoman said JUG is too close to the case.
WonderWoman posted the email from Deepack.
WonderWoman obviously knows someone who knows Deepack.
WonderWoman is close to this case too on the defense side hence her always sticking up for them and putting Nattalie and her family down.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Just curious guys.... what party and music are you all talking about :? ?


Greta is at the HI. During her interviews there's a party downstairs and they're pretty loud...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: arrabba on June 24, 2005, 10:50:45 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


Part of the lyrics:

Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me.
Somebody help me, yeah.
Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me, yeah.
I'm stayin' alive.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:50:51 PM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
 
Does it mean planned or just not done in the "heat of moment, or not involuntary here? And I wonder if pre-meditated means the same thing there that it does here? Anyone??


It means, with malice aforethought.  If they have reasonable suspicion that Natalee was drugged (Steve-Deepak-Joran connection) with the intent to commit a crime (kidnapping/rape), then that constitutes premeditation.
 
Even if Natalee's death was an unintentional accident, if someone dies while in the commission of a felony, it is, legally, murder.

If an armed robber walks into a convenient store, tells everyone to drop to the ground, and steals $100 from the register and leaves.  That robber, who had not intentions of killing anyone, can now be charged in the 1st degree murder of the 80-year old woman in the store who was terrified and dropped dead of a massive heart attack.


Thanks for the info. So if I understand...if it was unintentional accident it is still premeditated if it occured during commission of other premeditated crime. So the converse would be that if she was not kidnapped or drugged, and say died from choking on a hamburger..would that still be premeditated or something lesser?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:51:30 PM
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
NH Aunt saying Joran is out of control cause of going to Casinos and snekaing out at night??  I dont really agree with that.. not sticking up for JVDS.. kids sneak out when they are teens...they sneak and do alot of crap... IMO   I was one once YEARS ago..lol  Wasnt the perfect poster child teenager. Hard to hear her talk with the loud music in the background..


Angie, did you here when Jug refered to Urine as C&C "poster child"?  He said his pichure was everwhere there.  Thats purty outa control for most b17yr olds dontcha thank?


He said that on FOX about 30 minutes or so ago.. I think others on here heard the same thing as I did!! Im sure it will be repeated again on tv!!
Im not sticking up for JVDS by all means.. Just mentioned that teens arnt perfect.....!!  If there is a perfect teen out there.. Id LOVE to meet them in person!!  But it was on Fox.. it was JUG who said it!
I aint stinkin up fer him either, but when I was a teen ever gilr I took someplace always got back alive!


LOL Mike.. I hear yah,.. whne I went out with men. I made it home also.. trust me if I wasnt home in time. my mom and dad came out looking for me.. caught me parking as well..  :oops:  Im not saint..!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:51:45 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:52:14 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


Heard it too Nikki.. WTF?  Now I got that damn song in my head and havnt heard it in years..



If they platy "Another one bites the dust" I am gonna start thinking they are doing this crap on purpose...

I love Greta, but if she says "carlos and CHARLIE" one more time, i am gonna smack her head..it has an S on the end..grrrrrrr!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Microcephalic on June 24, 2005, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?


Although unlikely, it could just be that the cover story was concocted after they learned she went missing and didn't want to get blamed.  More likely they are hiding something.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Ting on June 24, 2005, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: "coco"
Ting or anyone - on the Aunt point

The aunt who was just on with Greta kept saying something about her brother - is that Jug or father or someone else? anyone know?


coco, I have no clue. I am positively dizzy from the aunt swarm. I had a brief flash of hope on Larry King, who tonight featured one who was not blonde. But five minutes later I realized that her non-blondness was the only thing I could grasp. Both her name, and her place in the geneaology faded into the auntmist.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:53:13 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
BULLYING people gets you nowhere, c'mon that's a given....

Maybe in your world...


Perf - play nice or leave.  Move on, people.

Perfect example!
You are bullying me.
See WonderWoman....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GreatOwl on June 24, 2005, 10:53:15 PM
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "GreatOwl"
was it ever determined who "Lorenzo" was?  I may have missed that posting.  The reason I ask is that I ran across a reference and a quote from a Captain Lorenzo who has a deep sea fishing boat.

Of course, I am sure there as many Lorenzo's with boats in Aruba as there are owl's in Wisconsin.
Please, give up the goods!  What web address?

All I've found are the references to a car rental company (under name van Rijn)

I keep scouring all the photo sites to see if I might recognize someone who could be Lorenzo, which is crazy because I have no idea what he might possibly look like.

Only know what I knew in the first place:  Lorenzo van Rijn (aka van Gijn) is rumored (stress on rumored) to be the illegitimate son of PDVS, born prior to his marriage to Anita.  One source mentioned they were close to each other.  I've also heard him described as crazy, into drugs, and fond of spraypainting his house.  His (step) father is rumored to have had problems with drugs and to have committed suicide several years ago.  

Why I feel like he's more connected than not, I really don't know, but I do.


Ok, forget it then.  This one is much older and works at the ferry dock helping tourists decide which boats to use for fishing, scuba, shark watching etc.  Obviously isn't the same one since the name is Irasmus.  Thank you anyway for responding.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RB"
Good God a mighty, you hear that?  Caribbean Queen in the background on Greta...



Having 80's flashbacks....


This is freakin' incredible - what a juxtaposition.  Partying and tragedy all together in one place.


Like a bad episode of Miami Vice. (Assuming that there were any good ones)

Lets just thank god they were not playing ...

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beach-Boys/Kokomo.html




OMG>>THEY ARE PLAYING STAYIN"ALIVE!!!!!!!!!


my hubby was on his computer, knowing what I was into on mine, and said the same thing about the song Stayin Alive.... :shock:  :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 10:54:35 PM
Ok thanks RB :wink: I thougth the greta crew was partying :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:55:26 PM
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


Part of the lyrics:

Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me.
Somebody help me, yeah.
Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me, yeah.
I'm stayin' alive.


can dag do "home sweet home"?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?


Although unlikely, it could just be that the cover story was concocted after they learned she went missing and didn't want to get blamed.  More likely they are hiding something.

Didnt they say, the first night the Twittys were there, they dropped her off at the HI? At that point even the police didn't consider her missing.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:55:33 PM
I said : Perf - play nice or leave.  Move on, people.

Perf said: Perfect example!
You are bullying me.
See WonderWoman....


Enough.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 10:55:39 PM
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


Part of the lyrics:

Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me.
Somebody help me, yeah.
Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me, yeah.
I'm stayin' alive.


I will say that these interveiws with the family in the party atmosphere isn't right. Not sure who there grips and setup guys are but there has to be someplace quiet. Although on the beach would have been equally as bad I think.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 10:55:45 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Lausa, alot of the posters here can help you when you are trying to serach for info. like that


Like using Papiamento words in my descriptors?  Usually I'm a fairly prolific google researcher, but not when I came to Lorenzo.  Someone else might have fared better.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:56:20 PM
Hannie - a Greta update - she's just done a walking tour of the places involved - the casino, the macdonald's, CnCs, and finally the beach at night. I bet she'll have photos up from this tomorrow on her site if you want to look. It's kinda interesting to see them all in order after all this discussion.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


Heard it too Nikki.. WTF?  Now I got that damn song in my head and havnt heard it in years..



If they platy "Another one bites the dust" I am gonna start thinking they are doing this crap on purpose...

I love Greta, but if she says "carlos and CHARLIE" one more time, i am gonna smack her head..it has an S on the end..grrrrrrr!!!!


Nikki.. IF that song somes on.. I will personally drive to your house and we will get crocked!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?


Although unlikely, it could just be that the cover story was concocted after they learned she went missing and didn't want to get blamed.  More likely they are hiding something.


Or it could be they are covering for someone else. Steve Croes? That's what Mrs. Van Derboobs claimed in the paper today... :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:57:29 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:57:35 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


Part of the lyrics:

Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me.
Somebody help me, yeah.
Life goin' nowhere. Somebody help me, yeah.
I'm stayin' alive.


I will say that these interveiws with the family in the part atmosphere isn't right. Not sure who there grips and setup guys are but there has to be someplace quiet. Although on the beach would have been equally as bad I think.



Maybe a hotel lobby would be nice....PLease, somebody write them and tell 'em its a little distasteful...hurry before they play Elton John's "iSLAND GIRL"


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 10:57:43 PM
Jailhouse rock???????


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 10:57:45 PM
jail house rockk.

tee hee


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Perforator on June 24, 2005, 10:58:18 PM
Quote from: "RB"
I said : Perf - play nice or leave.  Move on, people.

Perf said: Perfect example!
You are bullying me.
See WonderWoman....


Enough.


w/e (in case you don't know what that means... what ever!)
What are you WonderWoman's body guard or something?
That was not an insult, name calling or inflammatory post...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN>>THAY ARE PLAYING STAYIN ALIVE


Heard it too Nikki.. WTF?  Now I got that damn song in my head and havnt heard it in years..



If they platy "Another one bites the dust" I am gonna start thinking they are doing this crap on purpose...

I love Greta, but if she says "carlos and CHARLIE" one more time, i am gonna smack her head..it has an S on the end..grrrrrrr!!!!


Nikki.. IF that song somes on.. I will personally drive to your house and we will get crocked!


It'll be a 10 hour drive, BUT I will wait up for you...beer in hand!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Ting on June 24, 2005, 10:58:21 PM
Jailhouse Rock


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 10:58:22 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
jail house rockk.

tee hee


Are they doing this on purpose???


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 10:58:25 PM
OMG   Jailhouse Rock playing now!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 10:58:35 PM
Quote from: "RB"
I said : Perf - play nice or leave.  Move on, people.

Perf said: Perfect example!
You are bullying me.
See WonderWoman....


Enough.


quit poking each other or go to bed please!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 10:58:57 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: "Ting"
Jailhouse Rock



ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 10:59:17 PM
someone who knows the DJ selected the music?---just asking... :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 10:59:52 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
someone who knows the DJ selected the music?---just asking... :lol:


Maybe a friend of steve croes...LOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:00:09 PM
if there's resentment of the US media, the hotel band could very well be getting their kicks this way ... and I thought Greta was gonna lose it when Jailhouse Rock came on!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
jail house rockk.

tee hee


Are they doing this on purpose???


i told you before it was fuc**d up...i thing songs are only outlet of local info now


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 24, 2005, 11:00:33 PM
Maybe Joran and Deepshitpak called in a request... :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:01:28 PM
Quote from: "coco"
Hannie - a Greta update - she's just done a walking tour of the places involved - the casino, the macdonald's, CnCs, and finally the beach at night. I bet she'll have photos up from this tomorrow on her site if you want to look. It's kinda interesting to see them all in order after all this discussion.


no party at lorenzoes???? bummer.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:01:45 PM
Email greta and in the behind the scenes blog she will respond probably.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:01:51 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:02:21 PM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Maybe Joran and Deepshitpak called in a request... :roll:


Now that was funny!!!!!
 :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:02:45 PM
Jeeez, I just now caught up with my reading here and I'm still about 30 minutes behind on Greta...not hearin jailhouse rock yet.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Maybe Joran and Deepshitpak called in a request... :roll:


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Microcephalic on June 24, 2005, 11:03:31 PM
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?


Although unlikely, it could just be that the cover story was concocted after they learned she went missing and didn't want to get blamed.  More likely they are hiding something.

Didnt they say, the first night the Twittys were there, they dropped her off at the HI? At that point even the police didn't consider her missing.


I think, based on the fact that the parents were even there, that she was presumed missing.  It's probably a moot point anyway.  Like you suggest, they are probably concealing something more sinister.  From the supposed dipstick e-mail we know she fell asleep in the car.  It's not unlikely that she could have simply passed out on the beach and Jerkran, being the gentleman that he is, had his way with her a left her there.  That could have provided sufficient motive to lie.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:03:59 PM
I still love how she pronounces his name "Urine".  I love that.  Even when she interviews someone that prounounces it correctly, she still says "Urine".  lol.  So funny!!!!!   :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:04:48 PM
Okay, I have a question......I read 5 or 6 pages back about someone on a plane?????  I did not want to ask if it has been discussed, but I haven't seen it mentioned since and I am curious........Can anyone explain??  Please!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 11:05:22 PM
Sounds as if these songs are being played on purpose.. Gimme a freaking break.. Damn. the DJ needs his ass kicked....Sounds like whoever it is is making jokes that arnt funny.. all the songs then jailhouse rock?? Whats next Tiny bubbles for vrying out loud.. or the theme from Jaws.. the DJ needs slapped.. perhaps requests for songs are being made..but still.. come on.. !


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:05:23 PM
Quote from: "DAG"
Okay, I have a question......I read 5 or 6 pages back about someone on a plane?????  I did not want to ask if it has been discussed, but I haven't seen it mentioned since and I am curious........Can anyone explain??  Please!!!


Me too...what's up with that?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:05:39 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
someone who knows the DJ selected the music?---just asking... :lol:


Maybe a friend of steve croes...LOL

I think they r all related
as media mouthpieces...
at least

muscle crelaxrs kick in...typing may suck from here on out...sorry :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"


I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


WonderWoman I think you may be to close to this too.
Where did you get that email from?
You seem awfully defensive.
Also since when is drinking into the wee hours of the night a crime?


Not defensive, defending, because it's wrong

It's NOT against the law, that is my point! Nor does it make for a murderer or rapist!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:06:14 PM
You cannot go potty while you are here..But, because yall are my friends, I am willing to travel to you and place a few catheters..WITH drain bags at no extra charge....LOLOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: pinemeadows on June 24, 2005, 11:06:39 PM
Quote from: "DAG"
Okay, I have a question......I read 5 or 6 pages back about someone on a plane?????  I did not want to ask if it has been discussed, but I haven't seen it mentioned since and I am curious........Can anyone explain??  Please!!!


I think Greta said this evening there was a gentleman from the US who checked in to the same hotel as NH...he never returned, checked out, or something...sort of disappeared.  

If I'm wrong, I'm confident someone from this kind and gentle group will correct me! :wink:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:06:44 PM
Quote from: "DAG"
Okay, I have a question......I read 5 or 6 pages back about someone on a plane?????  I did not want to ask if it has been discussed, but I haven't seen it mentioned since and I am curious........Can anyone explain??  Please!!!


Greta said that while the investigation focuses on Joran, there are other leads that she and her crew are looking into even though most are dead ends.  She mentioned that there was a man that flew in on the same flight as Natalee and stayed at the same hotel, but there is no record of him going back to the US so they are trying to track him down.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:06:44 PM
Dag - this afternoon, Greta did a live report in which she was cautioning that while folks are being held, all leads should be followed up and then mentioned that there's a guy who was on the same plane as NH and in the same hotel and has now vanished, did not take his plane home, etc.
No other info - she did say she and her team were chasing those leads.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:06:59 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
someone who knows the DJ selected the music?---just asking... :lol:


Maybe a friend of steve croes...LOL

I think they r all related
as media mouthpieces...
at least

muscle crelaxrs kick in...typing may suck from here on out...sorry :roll:


<---workin on her 3rd 7&7 (will attempt to correkt any mistaces)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:07:17 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
FOM...this sounds like that stupid as* DJ who played all the innapropriate songs on radio 2 weeks ago...

Bad Medicine?
Girls Just Want to Have Fun??

WTH??



and u  all thought i was smokin sh*t then!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: "dragonfly"
I still love how she pronounces his name "Urine".  I love that.  Even when she interviews someone that prounounces it correctly, she still says "Urine".  lol.  So funny!!!!!   :lol:


I think she is trying to say he's a little piss...in a grtea kinda way...LOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:08:09 PM
Quote from: "coco"
Dag - this afternoon, Greta did a live report in which she was cautioning that while folks are being held, all leads should be followed up and then mentioned that there's a guy who was on the same plane as NH and in the same hotel and has now vanished, did not take his plane home, etc.
No other info - she did say she and her team were chasing those leads.


Holy crap.  What guy?  If he's missing, what is his family saying.  Jeez this is the most bizzare case ever.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:08:38 PM
interesting that Greta has not mentioned that story again tonight - they may be chasing it and not want anyone else to look into it? though I think I heard it also mentioned on CNN or MSNBC but my brain is foggy now... still singing Kokomo!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:09:14 PM
Quote from: "coco"
interesting that Greta has not mentioned that story again tonight - they may be chasing it and not want anyone else to look into it? though I think I heard it also mentioned on CNN or MSNBC but my brain is foggy now... still singing Kokomo!


It was also mentioned on the courttv board and maybe on air.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
FOM...this sounds like that stupid as* DJ who played all the innapropriate songs on radio 2 weeks ago...

Bad Medicine?
Girls Just Want to Have Fun??

WTH??



and u  all thought i was smokin sh*t then!!!


We still think that FOM.  All the time!!!  lol.. :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:09:44 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 11:10:13 PM
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:10:17 PM
Thanks all for answering my question..............interesting!!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:10:23 PM
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
FOM...this sounds like that stupid as* DJ who played all the innapropriate songs on radio 2 weeks ago...

Bad Medicine?
Girls Just Want to Have Fun??

WTH??



and u  all thought i was smokin sh*t then!!!


We still think that FOM.  All the time!!!  lol.. :shock:
'

Nuthin wrong w/smokin responsibly.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:11:25 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Leslie Sprenger on June 24, 2005, 11:12:16 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


You are always defending them ...why?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:12:37 PM
Oh poor Mama Kalpoe  :cry:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:12:48 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


Probably wouldn't have happened if they had told the truth from the beginning instead of helping put 2 guys behind bars that were completely innocent from day one.  Wasn't Mickey John in there pointing fingers at other people.  He just told the truth.  Those who lied got themselves (and innocent others) put behind bars.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: vet4bush on June 24, 2005, 11:12:51 PM
OK, letís say the Aruban LE wants to find the body of NH. Why donít they put a large map of Aruba in the interrogation room where PVDS and JVDS are located and every so often have someone update the map where the Texas Equusearch is making their searches. If the A-LE watchrs PVDS and JVDS very closely during the day they may notice those areas of the map where PVDS and JVDS take a lot of interest in. If they do pay a lot of attention to any particular area of the map, perhaps that is the area where they dumped the body.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:12:53 PM
We seem to have some possibly new news in the case of the boys in NJ in that thread.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewforum.php?f=11&sid=806373b3a4dc811a7c2175d92ce60e22

Suspect/Witness being sought.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:13:06 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 24, 2005, 11:13:12 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
FOM...this sounds like that stupid as* DJ who played all the innapropriate songs on radio 2 weeks ago...

Bad Medicine?
Girls Just Want to Have Fun??

WTH??



and u  all thought i was smokin sh*t then!!!


No I didn't  :cry: . I believed you but you were typing drunk so.... LOL


Has anything came up about who the missing man is?  The one from American.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Leslie Sprenger on June 24, 2005, 11:13:19 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Oh poor Mama Kalpoe  :cry:


Where is Daddy Kalpoe?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:13:23 PM
Quote from: "DAG"
Thanks all for answering my question..............interesting!!!!!


yep...still listening...prefer calypso if u take requests!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 11:13:37 PM
Quote from: "Leslie Sprenger"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


You are always defending them ...why?


Because it's possible, Leslie.   I don't think it's defense of them, I think it's taking the situation at face value.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 24, 2005, 11:14:11 PM
The guy sat beside her on ther plane right?  And now they cant find him?  Thats crazy.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:14:17 PM
Quote from: "dragonfly"
I still love how she pronounces his name "Urine".  I love that.  Even when she interviews someone that prounounces it correctly, she still says "Urine".  lol.  So funny!!!!!   :lol:


urine deepshit..nice


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:14:33 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: "Red"
http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beach-Boys/Kokomo.html


I haven't been able to get that song out of my head all week.  Most inappropriate, but stuck in there nonetheless.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Shellbell on June 24, 2005, 11:15:05 PM
((((((((((((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))))))))) How was your trip?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:15:13 PM
I've rediscovered gin and tonics this summer - 90 degrees plus in New England - so that's my new drug of choice - but only one or I fall asleep and can't read here.

btw - I don't think WW is defending "them" - I think she's defending truth, justice and the american way - otherwise known as innocent until proven guilty. And I think we should all remember that and how much we do not know as real fact.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:15:14 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "Leslie Sprenger"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?

Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty

You are always defending them ...why?

Because it's possible, Leslie.   I don't think it's defense of them, I think it's taking the situation at face value.

Playing devil's advocate


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:15:23 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "DAG"
Okay people, whatever you all are having (cocktails???), please share!!!!


What can I getcha?  I make a killer cosmo...and we've got Chivas...and of course, Seamgrams.


I kept waiting for them to play "Margaritaville" so I would feel right at home!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:15:41 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
You cannot go potty while you are here..But, because yall are my friends, I am willing to travel to you and place a few catheters..WITH drain bags at no extra charge....LOLOL

Nikki!!! Go get the family in bed and get back here!!


Go Nikki!!!!  Give them some night time cold medicine or something Nikki and get back here on the computer.


Dimetapp for the kids, quickie for da hubby...back to da monkeys for nikki.



ok..2 year old is asllep..to hell with late afternoon naps..hubby in shower ready fr bed..12 year old going to bed..I"M ALMOST THERE!!! I just took something for heartburn..should be good to go soon!!!! LOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:15:43 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Sounds as if these songs are being played on purpose.. Gimme a freaking break.. Damn. the DJ needs his ass kicked....Sounds like whoever it is is making jokes that arnt funny.. all the songs then jailhouse rock?? Whats next Tiny bubbles for vrying out loud.. or the theme from Jaws.. the DJ needs slapped.. perhaps requests for songs are being made..but still.. come on.. !


no...they like to play "i'm soooo lonely,,,mister lonely..." alot on dag tho


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:15:57 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: "Leslie Sprenger"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


You are always defending them ...why?


Because, WW is keeping an open mind...because, whether we like it or not, we don't have the evidence to string them from the nearest tree yet. just my opinion now folks. I'm not about to be a bodyguard for wonder woman. They'd call me the fat friend with the good personality.  :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:16:46 PM
Quote from: "Shellbell"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
FOM...this sounds like that stupid as* DJ who played all the innapropriate songs on radio 2 weeks ago...

Bad Medicine?
Girls Just Want to Have Fun??

WTH??



and u  all thought i was smokin sh*t then!!!


No I didn't  :cry: . I believed you but you were typing drunk so.... LOL


Has anything came up about who the missing man is?  The one from American.


No, I've not heard many details and I don't know that I would classify him as "missing".  There is just no record of him flying home.  Maybe he moved hotels and decided to stay longer.  Maybe he extended his stay and is one of those volunteers out there searching for Natalee.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 24, 2005, 11:17:45 PM
Playing devil's advocate

Wench, I rather don't look at it that way.  With some of the unclear statements made by both sides (yeah Jug musta been tired tonight - ask Absolut) I still don't have a feeling one way or the other who did what when.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:17:50 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Louise on June 24, 2005, 11:18:21 PM
oco wrote:
Ting or anyone - on the Aunt point

The aunt who was just on with Greta kept saying something about her brother - is that Jug or father or someone else? anyone know?

I think her brother is Nat's father but hey, they all look alike and have funny names.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 11:18:32 PM
Leslie Sprenger wrote:

Quote
You are always defending them ...why?


I am with WonderWoman on that!

I`ll do the same thing so you can blame me for that also, by the way I don`t know any of them !

I only think it`s fair to see both sides here not only one side. I think it`s very narrow-minded, just what I said before, if you are that age and you are in the same situation what would you do if you are "the supposed last"
who saw a missing girl?? So I think it`s only human that does not make you a murderer tho!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 11:19:18 PM
Quote from: "Leslie Sprenger"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


You are always defending them ...why?


Because nobody else does....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: "Louise"
oco wrote:
Ting or anyone - on the Aunt point

The aunt who was just on with Greta kept saying something about her brother - is that Jug or father or someone else? anyone know?

I think her brother is Nat's father but hey, they all look alike and have funny names.


That Aunt is the sister of Natalee's father (not stepfather)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:19:43 PM
Quote from: "RB"
Playing devil's advocate

Wench, I rather don't look at it that way.  With some of the unclear statements made by both sides (yeah Jug musta been tired tonight - ask Absolut) I still don't have a feeling one way or the other who did what when.


Jug was all over the place tonight (i understand why) but pretty soon the Twittys will have landed on the Island before Natalee disappeared.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:19:45 PM
Dragonfly - any thoughts where we can get more info on the "missing guy" (thank you for the reminder on not knowing - we need it as a mantra)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 11:20:28 PM
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


Probably wouldn't have happened if they had told the truth from the beginning instead of helping put 2 guys behind bars that were completely innocent from day one.  Wasn't Mickey John in there pointing fingers at other people.  He just told the truth.  Those who lied got themselves (and innocent others) put behind bars.



You have no evidence of that, you are only speculating. Do you know Mickey John?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:20:59 PM
oh damn..here we go...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: goon squad on June 24, 2005, 11:21:12 PM
<<It means, with malice aforethought. If they have reasonable suspicion that Natalee was drugged (Steve-Deepak-Joran connection) with the intent to commit a crime (kidnapping/rape), then that constitutes premeditation.

Even if Natalee's death was an unintentional accident, if someone dies while in the commission of a felony, it is, legally, murder.

If an armed robber walks into a convenient store, tells everyone to drop to the ground, and steals $100 from the register and leaves. That robber, who had not intentions of killing anyone, can now be charged in the 1st degree murder of the 80-year old woman in the store who was terrified and dropped dead of a massive heart attack.>>


Scott, your scenarios are applications of the felony-murder rule.  Not sure if that's part of Aruban law, or what falls under it.

As posted earlier, premeditation could be found through a refusal to contact police or to seek legitimate medical help after an emergency resulting from one's intentional act.  Again, not sure about Aruban law here.

While I'm at it with stuff I don't know, can someone confirm the Aruban legal definition of "complicity"?  One board admin here and one TV talking head said that it precludes involvement in the actual crime - that, for this case, it involves only a post-crime cover-up.  However, the spokesperson has asserted that the suspicion re: PVDS covers the disappearance itself, and was not limited to a cover-up.  If "complicity"  does not cover this, then what potential charge for PVDS would?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:21:28 PM
Off track alittle...........when y'all are talking about the radio station in Aruba called dag it always freaks me out.  DAG (my screen name) is my initials.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kshe78 on June 24, 2005, 11:21:42 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"


I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


WonderWoman I think you may be to close to this too.
Where did you get that email from?
You seem awfully defensive.
Also since when is drinking into the wee hours of the night a crime?


Not defensive, defending, because it's wrong

It's NOT against the law, that is my point! Nor does it make for a murderer or rapist!


But it IS against the law for Joran, since he's underage.  Natalee is 18 - so if she was drinking and gambling it was legal!  

While watching Greta tonight she confirmed that Joran was gambling all day with his dad at the Holiday Inn, until his dad got tired and went home.  I know that we knew that Joran was at the hotel casino (and met Natalee in the casino), but did we know that his dad was there with him all day?  Did dad meet Natalee and have a conversation with her by any chance?  

Also, I thought that was the day that Paul VDS game back from his trip - did he actually come back the day before?  Sorry - so many facts / rumors / speculations that I'm getting confused!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 11:21:52 PM
Leslie Sprenger wrote:


Quote
Where is Daddy Kalpoe?



I`ll bet far far away right now~!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:21:53 PM
Quote from: "coco"
Dragonfly - any thoughts where we can get more info on the "missing guy" (thank you for the reminder on not knowing - we need it as a mantra)


I don't know.  She didn't give any other information about him.  Just that he was on the same flight with Natalee to Aruba.  Someone mentioned a story on another news show or something, but I don't have enough information really to do a search unless there is some other article or something out there about it.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "Leslie Sprenger"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


You are always defending them ...why?


Because, WW is keeping an open mind...because, whether we like it or not, we don't have the evidence to string them from the nearest tree yet. just my opinion now folks. I'm not about to be a bodyguard for wonder woman. They'd call me the fat friend with the good personality.  :lol:


My heart tells me that Nat's mother's instincts are right on, especially since my gut tells me these guys are hiding something (first hint...liars...everyone of them).  But I definately ate crow when Elizabeth Smart was found.  The case was NOTHING like anyone thought.  The possibility that she was kidnapped by some religious fanatic and was wandering around in her own town never entered anyone's mind, did it?  I think they did "something bad" to NH but until we know...we don't know.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 11:22:00 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RB"
Playing devil's advocate

Wench, I rather don't look at it that way.  With some of the unclear statements made by both sides (yeah Jug musta been tired tonight - ask Absolut) I still don't have a feeling one way or the other who did what when.


Jug was all over the place tonight (i understand why) but pretty soon the Twittys will have landed on the Island before Natalee disappeared.


I caught that too. It was definitely one of those HUH??? moments.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 11:22:08 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
I still love how she pronounces his name "Urine".  I love that.  Even when she interviews someone that prounounces it correctly, she still says "Urine".  lol.  So funny!!!!!   :lol:


urine deepshit..nice


Yeah, really nice.....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:22:21 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


Probably wouldn't have happened if they had told the truth from the beginning instead of helping put 2 guys behind bars that were completely innocent from day one.  Wasn't Mickey John in there pointing fingers at other people.  He just told the truth.  Those who lied got themselves (and innocent others) put behind bars.



You have no evidence of that, you are only speculating. Do you know Mickey John?


I do and I know when he is lying..he was telling the truth on tv


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 11:22:25 PM
Question--If
1.she had an asthma attack ( I don't know that this was a medical condition she had or not, just thinking )
2. alcohol poisoning
3.drowned
4.fell and hit her head because she was drinking

all innocent causes of death, perhaps dad and joran were to afraid to call the medical personnel or LE, because they wanted to avoid gossip or investigation, what with joran's and dad's future so "bright"

Possibility yes, excusable NO!   But I could see it happening. Joran and dad need a cover story and involve the bros kalpoe, then get rid of the evidence. ( they think )

If what happened to Natalee was innocent and an accident, it could be proven and there would have been no need for lies.

it's not the event but the cover-up of the event.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:22:42 PM
ok..once and for all..is it pronounced "SLOTE" or "sloot'?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:23:24 PM
SOT


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 24, 2005, 11:23:37 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
ok..once and for all..is it pronounced "SLOTE" or "sloot'?


I thought they were saying tonight that it was pronounced Slunk


Title: Natalee
Post by: TVMom on June 24, 2005, 11:23:40 PM
...been surfing here for many days....need to work early tomorrow A.M so I won't be online much longer....just wanted to comment:

I am a parent of teenage girls.  I can easily sympathize with all parents involved in this tragedy.  So many of you speculate and theorize and I do as well.  Everything is not always as it appears.  I have learned this through the years from my own experience, with having teenage girls AND with being friends with parents of teenage boys.  I want to believe Natalee is alive and with all that I've been able to wade through on this website, I still want to believe that.  Of course, I have my doubts, but I really believe that by now, a body would have been found.  Yes, I know, she may have been dumped in the ocean, but does anyone know of the case of AnnMarie Fahey?  No body, but plenty of evidence....Anyway, I've been wanting to comment for sometime and now I guess I'm hooked.  

About Joran, I've looked at his websites and photos and some look incriminating, but as a parent of teens, I KNOW how these websites look and how these kids act.  As I said before, everything is not always as it appears.  Believe me, I have first-hand experience with mis-understanding situations with which my girls have been involved!  And I am the first to jump to conclusions!  Let's save our judgements until we have hard evidence and answers.  Just something to ponder....................


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: arrabba on June 24, 2005, 11:23:46 PM
Quote from: "coco"
I've rediscovered gin and tonics this summer - 90 degrees plus in New England - so that's my new drug of choice - but only one or I fall asleep and can't read here.

btw - I don't think WW is defending "them" - I think she's defending truth, justice and the american way - otherwise known as innocent until proven guilty. And I think we should all remember that and how much we do not know as real fact.


You're forgetting the rest of the saying, innocent until proven guilty under the law.  

Public opinion is different than the law.  

You are either guilty or innocent, that doesn't change after a verdict, what does change is your legal status.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 11:24:09 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "Leslie Sprenger"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


You are always defending them ...why?


Because, WW is keeping an open mind...because, whether we like it or not, we don't have the evidence to string them from the nearest tree yet. just my opinion now folks. I'm not about to be a bodyguard for wonder woman. They'd call me the fat friend with the good personality.  :lol:


My heart tells me that Nat's mother's instincts are right on, especially since my gut tells me these guys are hiding something (first hint...liars...everyone of them).  But I definately ate crow when Elizabeth Smart was found.  The case was NOTHING like anyone thought.  The possibility that she was kidnapped by some religious fanatic and was wandering around in her own town never entered anyone's mind, did it?  I think they did "something bad" to NH but until we know...we don't know.


And not to get off on a tangent cause I won't respond...I've never been quite satisfed that we know the whole story on that.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Mom in Ark on June 24, 2005, 11:24:20 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Leslie Sprenger wrote:


Quote
Where is Daddy Kalpoe?



I`ll bet far far away right now~!!


I thought he was in the slammer.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: cast on June 24, 2005, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: "Louise"
oco wrote:
Ting or anyone - on the Aunt point

The aunt who was just on with Greta kept saying something about her brother - is that Jug or father or someone else? anyone know?

I think her brother is Nat's father but hey, they all look alike and have funny names.


Linda Allison is Dave Holloway's sister.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: mia on June 24, 2005, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "Red"
http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Beach-Boys/Kokomo.html


I haven't been able to get that song out of my head all week.  Most inappropriate, but stuck in there nonetheless.


So have I been singing this in my head, but didn't remember all the words.  So thanks for the link to the lyrics.


Title: Re: Natalee
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:24:49 PM
Quote from: "TVMom"
...been surfing here for many days....need to work early tomorrow A.M so I won't be online much longer....just wanted to comment:

I am a parent of teenage girls.  I can easily sympathize with all parents involved in this tragedy.  So many of you speculate and theorize and I do as well.  Everything is not always as it appears.  I have learned this through the years from my own experience, with having teenage girls AND with being friends with parents of teenage boys.  I want to believe Natalee is alive and with all that I've been able to wade through on this website, I still want to believe that.  Of course, I have my doubts, but I really believe that by now, a body would have been found.  Yes, I know, she may have been dumped in the ocean, but does anyone know of the case of AnnMarie Fahey?  No body, but plenty of evidence....Anyway, I've been wanting to comment for sometime and now I guess I'm hooked.  

About Joran, I've looked at his websites and photos and some look incriminating, but as a parent of teens, I KNOW how these websites look and how these kids act.  As I said before, everything is not always as it appears.  Believe me, I have first-hand experience with mis-understanding situations with which my girls have been involved!  And I am the first to jump to conclusions!  Let's save our judgements until we have hard evidence and answers.  Just something to ponder....................



TV MOM..welcome!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Daniel on June 24, 2005, 11:24:53 PM
It's pronounced 'Sloat'.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Question--If
1.she had an asthma attack ( I don't know that this was a medical condition she had or not, just thinking )
2. alcohol poisoning
3.drowned
4.fell and hit her head because she was drinking

all innocent causes of death, perhaps dad and joran were to afraid to call the medical personnel or LE, because they wanted to avoid gossip or investigation, what with joran's and dad's future so "bright"

Possibility yes, excusable NO!   But I could see it happening. Joran and dad need a cover story and involve the bros kalpoe, then get rid of the evidence. ( they think )

If what happened to Natalee was innocent and an accident, it could be proven and there would have been no need for lies.

it's not the event but the cover-up of the event.


I have maintained from the first greta interview with beth as my source. That "her medication" was found in her bag.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
You cannot go potty while you are here..But, because yall are my friends, I am willing to travel to you and place a few catheters..WITH drain bags at no extra charge....LOLOL

Nikki!!! Go get the family in bed and get back here!!


Uhhhh Nikki.. Pass me a depend instead of a cath Please...lol
I went to potty.. took a minute.. came back and was 3 pages behind already.. ughhhh..lol


Angie hun, have you had an eye exam lately?  :shock:


LOL  No actually I havnt had an eye exam lately..LOL   I dont want run away bride eyes.. ugh!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
oh damn..here we go...


WW, Vincent Brothers could use some of your cheerleading.  He was the VP of my kids' grade school.  We LOVED him!  He was tough, but fair and most of the kids liked him (if you can believe that of a grade school VP).  I would like to be fair, but I can't help but feel like he committed the horrific crime he has been accused of.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 11:26:18 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"

Lausa, alot of the posters here can help you when you are trying to serach for info. like that[/quote]

Me too . I pulled up VGB Security site. I think it's in Dutch and translation made absolutely no sense. DOn't know what I thought I would find anyway. The only thing I could find is there is a rene van heijerwhatever that plays in tennis tournaments. The rest of them just google to blogs.... could find nothing on lorenzo except somebody from Aruba on Riehlworl connecting him with a guy from WIS or MI ( I can't remember) that lives in Aruba who has a naughty site advertising prostitution svc (I guess I meant escort) in Aruba. THey were tying that to the porn tapes that Geraldo brought up. max arends site has photo pictures of friends and one of those is connected to a weird, slightly sleazy looking dirty old man named Marten who has about 1700 pictures of young girls on his site. I just couldn't quite bring myself to open a tickle account so I could drill down on the pictures and comments.  Never could find reference to the almost decapitation except on blogs.
And they call this the world wide web?? I want real links not blogs, darn it. I'm in the cyber sleuth mode and I'm reduced to reading Bryan's predictions. I guess I need a life.... :wink:   :)  :)[/quote]

Truly ROLF!!!  We've apparently made quite a few of the same "hits" although I'd say you're just a little ahead of me.  I've even thought about opening a tickle.com account to do more investigation of Marten, but I think you have to get "invited" to become a tickle member.  I'm out of the age range to know many people who might "invite" me (but I'm a LOT younger than Marten).  Of course, I would have to use a fictious name and no pic.  How embarrasing would it be if a student found me on tickle.com?  Rumors, rumors, rumors.
What was that great John Lennon quote that someone puts under their posts?  Something about reality.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 11:26:28 PM
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "coco"
I've rediscovered gin and tonics this summer - 90 degrees plus in New England - so that's my new drug of choice - but only one or I fall asleep and can't read here.

btw - I don't think WW is defending "them" - I think she's defending truth, justice and the american way - otherwise known as innocent until proven guilty. And I think we should all remember that and how much we do not know as real fact.


You're forgetting the rest of the saying, innocent until proven guilty under the law.  

Public opinion is different than the law.  

You are either guilty or innocent, that doesn't change after a verdict, what does change is your legal status.


The problem lies in the fact that you're legal status could be guilty when you are in fact innocent because of public opinion.  It happens.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:26:30 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
You cannot go potty while you are here..But, because yall are my friends, I am willing to travel to you and place a few catheters..WITH drain bags at no extra charge....LOLOL

Nikki!!! Go get the family in bed and get back here!!


Uhhhh Nikki.. Pass me a depend instead of a cath Please...lol
I went to potty.. took a minute.. came back and was 3 pages behind already.. ughhhh..lol


Angie hun, have you had an eye exam lately?  :shock:


LOL  No actually I havnt had an eye exam lately..LOL   I dont want run away bride eyes.. ugh!



I think that woman needs her throid checked...lol..speaking of exams...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:27:32 PM
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "chelsblu"

Lausa, alot of the posters here can help you when you are trying to serach for info. like that


Me too . I pulled up VGB Security site. I think it's in Dutch and translation made absolutely no sense. DOn't know what I thought I would find anyway. The only thing I could find is there is a rene van heijerwhatever that plays in tennis tournaments. The rest of them just google to blogs.... could find nothing on lorenzo except somebody from Aruba on Riehlworl connecting him with a guy from WIS or MI ( I can't remember) that lives in Aruba who has a naughty site advertising prostitution svc (I guess I meant escort) in Aruba. THey were tying that to the porn tapes that Geraldo brought up. max arends site has photo pictures of friends and one of those is connected to a weird, slightly sleazy looking dirty old man named Marten who has about 1700 pictures of young girls on his site. I just couldn't quite bring myself to open a tickle account so I could drill down on the pictures and comments.  Never could find reference to the almost decapitation except on blogs.
And they call this the world wide web?? I want real links not blogs, darn it. I'm in the cyber sleuth mode and I'm reduced to reading Bryan's predictions. I guess I need a life.... :wink:   :)  :)[/quote]

Truly ROLF!!!  We've apparently made quite a few of the same "hits" although I'd say you're just a little ahead of me.  I've even thought about opening a tickle.com account to do more investigation of Marten, but I think you have to get "invited" to become a tickle member.  I'm out of the age range to know many people who might "invite" me (but I'm a LOT younger than Marten).  Of course, I would have to use a fictious name and no pic.  How embarrasing would it be if a student found me on tickle.com?  Rumors, rumors, rumors.
What was that great John Lennon quote that someone puts under their posts?  Something about reality.[/quote]

reality sucks???


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Mom in Ark on June 24, 2005, 11:28:22 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
You cannot go potty while you are here..But, because yall are my friends, I am willing to travel to you and place a few catheters..WITH drain bags at no extra charge....LOLOL

Nikki!!! Go get the family in bed and get back here!!


Uhhhh Nikki.. Pass me a depend instead of a cath Please...lol
I went to potty.. took a minute.. came back and was 3 pages behind already.. ughhhh..lol


Angie hun, have you had an eye exam lately?  :shock:


LOL  No actually I havnt had an eye exam lately..LOL   I dont want run away bride eyes.. ugh!



I think that woman needs her throid checked...lol..speaking of exams...


I said last night I thought she had Graves.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 11:28:34 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Leslie Sprenger"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


You are always defending them ...why?


Because nobody else does....


not true, ww  :?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 11:28:38 PM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
You cannot go potty while you are here..But, because yall are my friends, I am willing to travel to you and place a few catheters..WITH drain bags at no extra charge....LOLOL

Nikki!!! Go get the family in bed and get back here!!


Go Nikki!!!!  Give them some night time cold medicine or something Nikki and get back here on the computer.


Dimetapp for the kids, quickie for da hubby...back to da monkeys for nikki.



ok..2 year old is asllep..to hell with late afternoon naps..hubby in shower ready fr bed..12 year old going to bed..I"M ALMOST THERE!!! I just took something for heartburn..should be good to go soon!!!! LOL


if I can't wear my monkey hat according to Ting's rules, then no one can go potty---------drugs fine, but no potty!  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: "TVMom"
...been surfing here for many days....need to work early tomorrow A.M so I won't be online much longer....just wanted to comment:

I am a parent of teenage girls.  I can easily sympathize with all parents involved in this tragedy.  So many of you speculate and theorize and I do as well.  Everything is not always as it appears.  I have learned this through the years from my own experience, with having teenage girls AND with being friends with parents of teenage boys.  I want to believe Natalee is alive and with all that I've been able to wade through on this website, I still want to believe that.  Of course, I have my doubts, but I really believe that by now, a body would have been found.  Yes, I know, she may have been dumped in the ocean, but does anyone know of the case of AnnMarie Fahey?  No body, but plenty of evidence....Anyway, I've been wanting to comment for sometime and now I guess I'm hooked.  

About Joran, I've looked at his websites and photos and some look incriminating, but as a parent of teens, I KNOW how these websites look and how these kids act.  As I said before, everything is not always as it appears.  Believe me, I have first-hand experience with mis-understanding situations with which my girls have been involved!  And I am the first to jump to conclusions!  Let's save our judgements until we have hard evidence and answers.  Just something to ponder....................


Welcome, TVMom...

Thanks for you insights...come back soon.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 11:29:44 PM
Quote from: "kshe78"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"


I am sorry, ....they do not know if these boys did anything, YET.

I think they have all been way too close to this investigation, and of course it is only obvious that they would blame the last person"known to be with her" but from eyewitness accounts, their daughter was also drinking and in Casino's...yes, till wee hours of the night!!!


WonderWoman I think you may be to close to this too.
Where did you get that email from?
You seem awfully defensive.
Also since when is drinking into the wee hours of the night a crime?


Not defensive, defending, because it's wrong

It's NOT against the law, that is my point! Nor does it make for a murderer or rapist!


But it IS against the law for Joran, since he's underage.  Natalee is 18 - so if she was drinking and gambling it was legal!  

While watching Greta tonight she confirmed that Joran was gambling all day with his dad at the Holiday Inn, until his dad got tired and went home.  I know that we knew that Joran was at the hotel casino (and met Natalee in the casino), but did we know that his dad was there with him all day?  Did dad meet Natalee and have a conversation with her by any chance?  

Also, I thought that was the day that Paul VDS game back from his trip - did he actually come back the day before?  Sorry - so many facts / rumors / speculations that I'm getting confused!



I was waiting for that fact. Yes, he shouldn't be there at 17. But, his father probably does have pull. Like any other town in the good ole USA.

Point, neither Natalee or Joran should be picked apart for doing the things we've all done in our lives!! or similar activity.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: dragonfly on June 24, 2005, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


Probably wouldn't have happened if they had told the truth from the beginning instead of helping put 2 guys behind bars that were completely innocent from day one.  Wasn't Mickey John in there pointing fingers at other people.  He just told the truth.  Those who lied got themselves (and innocent others) put behind bars.



You have no evidence of that, you are only speculating. Do you know Mickey John?


Okay, I'm not going to spend the next 3 hours arguing.  You have decided to be the defender of what is right and just in the legal system, innocent until proven guilty, and that is admirable.  But, there are a lot of people who are mad at these young men simply for lying.  Their lies caused a huge delay in how this crime was investigated.  I'm not saying that makes them murderers, but it does upset me.  I feel like they gave LE the runaround and two innocent men were arrested and held for days because of that.  Yes, the premise of the US judicial system is "innocent until proven guilty", but the US system and the Dutch system work differently.  I have my beefs with both systems.  My opinion is what it is about these boys and that is based on lies, not an assumption that they are murderers.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Question--If
1.she had an asthma attack ( I don't know that this was a medical condition she had or not, just thinking )
2. alcohol poisoning
3.drowned
4.fell and hit her head because she was drinking

all innocent causes of death, perhaps dad and joran were to afraid to call the medical personnel or LE, because they wanted to avoid gossip or investigation, what with joran's and dad's future so "bright"

Possibility yes, excusable NO!   But I could see it happening. Joran and dad need a cover story and involve the bros kalpoe, then get rid of the evidence. ( they think )
Why would she go dancing w/o medicine if it was for asthma?
If what happened to Natalee was innocent and an accident, it could be proven and there would have been no need for lies.

it's not the event but the cover-up of the event.


I have maintained from the first greta interview with beth as my source. That "her medication" was found in her bag.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GuyWdog on June 24, 2005, 11:30:22 PM
KackyLacky---Your scenario just doesnt pan out. Paulus VD SLOOT is a TRAINED Lawyer he of all people know that an accidental death is NO-WAY a Prosecutorial Murder Charge. If anything he would have told his son Joran to immediately contact the Police. I just doont buy an accidential death cover-up. The Boy Joran would easily get out of any rap if that scenario had happened. There has to motive to prove Murder, and if there is no motive there is no murder.

GuyWdog


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 11:31:29 PM
welcome Tvmom.... :D


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 24, 2005, 11:32:07 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


Probably wouldn't have happened if they had told the truth from the beginning instead of helping put 2 guys behind bars that were completely innocent from day one.  Wasn't Mickey John in there pointing fingers at other people.  He just told the truth.  Those who lied got themselves (and innocent others) put behind bars.



You have no evidence of that, you are only speculating. Do you know Mickey John?


I do and I know when he is lying..he was telling the truth on tv


Thank you, but the question was not directed at you.

Nice to meet you, friend of Mickeys


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: deb73 on June 24, 2005, 11:32:43 PM
Has anyone including any of her friends said what kind of "medication" she was taking or needed? Maybe she was a diabetic? Just a thought :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:33:31 PM
Quote from: "deb73"
Has anyone including any of her friends said what kind of "medication" she was taking or needed? Maybe she was a diabetic? Just a thought :)


It has been asked hundreds of time, no one responds so I assume no one knows.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:33:36 PM
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
KackyLacky---Your scenario just doesnt pan out. Paulus VD SLOOT is a TRAINED Lawyer he of all people know that an accidental death is NO-WAY a Prosecutorial Murder Charge. If anything he would have told his son Joran to immediately contact the Police. I just doont buy an accidential death cover-up. The Boy Joran would easily get out of any rap if that scenario had happened. There has to motive to prove Murder, and if there is no motive there is no murder.

GuyWdog


Unless they find traces of a date rape drug in her system, or evidence of a struggle, nothing "accidental" about that.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 24, 2005, 11:34:56 PM
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
KackyLacky---Your scenario just doesnt pan out. Paulus VD SLOOT is a TRAINED Lawyer he of all people know that an accidental death is NO-WAY a Prosecutorial Murder Charge. If anything he would have told his son Joran to immediately contact the Police. I just doont buy an accidential death cover-up. The Boy Joran would easily get out of any rap if that scenario had happened. There has to motive to prove Murder, and if there is no motive there is no murder.

GuyWdog

I agree 100%.  If you are innocent, your parent wouldn't suggest you "saying nothing" (although an attorney knowing you committed a crime might...hmmm?) when a parent is at your doorstep at 3am looking for their missing daughter.  I just can't image ANY reason for them to lie OR to say nothing, unless they were trying to cover their behinds about something.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:35:12 PM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?



Because they were afraid that what IS happening WOULD happen!!

get it or no....


innoceny until proven guilty


Probably wouldn't have happened if they had told the truth from the beginning instead of helping put 2 guys behind bars that were completely innocent from day one.  Wasn't Mickey John in there pointing fingers at other people.  He just told the truth.  Those who lied got themselves (and innocent others) put behind bars.



You have no evidence of that, you are only speculating. Do you know Mickey John?


I do and I know when he is lying..he was telling the truth on tv


Thank you, but the question was not directed at you.

Nice to meet you, friend of Mickeys


 :arrow: U 2 WW... but thats why this is called a forum discussion
don't u think???  collective input/ideas/knowledge???
I think it is important factor here...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:35:13 PM
Been gone all day, so catching up reading.  Did anyone ever post what type of medication?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KerinTX on June 24, 2005, 11:35:24 PM
sot


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Scott on June 24, 2005, 11:35:40 PM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
 
if she was not kidnapped or drugged, and say died from choking on a hamburger..would that still be premeditated or something lesser?


Huh?  You're asking me if Natalee were to voluntarily go in the car with Joran, Deepak and Satish...they stop at McDonald's, head up to the lighthouse, and while there, Natalee is, of her own volition, eating a Big Mac, and chokes to death..is that premeditated?

Unless she started choking in their presence, and the 3 boys said, 'screw her...she's better off dead', there's no crime committed.  It would truly be an accidental death.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Question--If
1.she had an asthma attack ( I don't know that this was a medical condition she had or not, just thinking )
2. alcohol poisoning
3.drowned
4.fell and hit her head because she was drinking

all innocent causes of death, perhaps dad and joran were to afraid to call the medical personnel or LE, because they wanted to avoid gossip or investigation, what with joran's and dad's future so "bright"

Possibility yes, excusable NO!   But I could see it happening. Joran and dad need a cover story and involve the bros kalpoe, then get rid of the evidence. ( they think )

If what happened to Natalee was innocent and an accident, it could be proven and there would have been no need for lies.

it's not the event but the cover-up of the event.


I have maintained from the first greta interview with beth as my source. That "her medication" was found in her bag.


actually, it is your questions absolute that have (although I can't find anything about any med Natalee may have had with her) me thinking along these lines at times.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 11:36:10 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "chelsblu"


What was that great John Lennon quote that someone puts under their posts?  Something about reality.


reality sucks???
While this is certainly often true, I think the quote had a more oblique twist to it.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:36:11 PM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Been gone all day, so catching up reading.  Did anyone ever post what type of medication?
Nope


Title: Thanks for the Welcomes
Post by: TVMom on June 24, 2005, 11:36:21 PM
Thanks to all that have welcomed me onboard, but I need to sign-off and go to bed.  Hopefully I can be more productive tomorrow and days ahead.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: wantsanswers on June 24, 2005, 11:37:25 PM
Maybe the motive was an american girl. Weirder things have happened. His mother mentioned his former american girlfriend dumped him because he was too nice. Maybe he wanted to show how bad he could be...
There were two kids in texas with wonderful futures, one have a scholarship to the airforce academy and the girlfriend had one to annapolis and they killed to prove a point. You never know>>>


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:37:36 PM
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 24, 2005, 11:38:03 PM
Quote from: "coco"
Ting or anyone - on the Aunt point

The aunt who was just on with Greta kept saying something about her brother - is that Jug or father or someone else? anyone know?


This may have been answered,,I am behind..but she is Holloway's sister..She lives in Ark,,


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 11:39:05 PM
G`nite TVMom....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:39:07 PM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Question--If
1.she had an asthma attack ( I don't know that this was a medical condition she had or not, just thinking )
2. alcohol poisoning
3.drowned
4.fell and hit her head because she was drinking

all innocent causes of death, perhaps dad and joran were to afraid to call the medical personnel or LE, because they wanted to avoid gossip or investigation, what with joran's and dad's future so "bright"

Possibility yes, excusable NO!   But I could see it happening. Joran and dad need a cover story and involve the bros kalpoe, then get rid of the evidence. ( they think )

If what happened to Natalee was innocent and an accident, it could be proven and there would have been no need for lies.

it's not the event but the cover-up of the event.


I have maintained from the first greta interview with beth as my source. That "her medication" was found in her bag.


actually, it is your questions absolute that have (although I can't find anything about any med Natalee may have had with her) me thinking along these lines at times.


I can't take all the credit for it, a sometimes poster and lurker PM'd some theory questions a few days ago. It was one of the few left I couldn't get answers to.


Title: What?
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 11:40:03 PM
"No posts exist for this topic" -- getting this response for pages 17 and 18.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: "deb73"
Has anyone including any of her friends said what kind of "medication" she was taking or needed? Maybe she was a diabetic? Just a thought :)



if she were diabetic, i would assume that her parents would be blasting that all over saying"please, please bring natalee home..she needs her insulin" etc...Justa thought


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 24, 2005, 11:40:40 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "deb73"
Has anyone including any of her friends said what kind of "medication" she was taking or needed? Maybe she was a diabetic? Just a thought :)


It has been asked hundreds of time, no one responds so I assume no one knows.


LOL Absolut.. Guess I wasnt the only one asking that question. which is a good one to ask I feel.. meds could be asprin.. alllergy pills etc.. but was curious. at least  if it was something that she absolutely HAD to take that she needed.. and couldnt go without taking I guess was a point a tryed to make before..maybe not in those words!  Nobody knows!


Title: Re: What?
Post by: arrabba on June 24, 2005, 11:40:41 PM
Quote from: "Lausa"
"No posts exist for this topic" -- getting this response for pages 17 and 18.


me too


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 24, 2005, 11:40:49 PM
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "chelsblu"


What was that great John Lennon quote that someone puts under their posts?  Something about reality.


reality sucks???
While this is certainly often true, I think the quote had a more oblique twist to it.


Is this it..........

Surrealism had a great effect on me because then I realised that the imagery in my mind wasn't insanity. Surrealism to me is reality.

Or possibley this.......

Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.


Title: Re: What?
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:40:56 PM
Quote from: "Lausa"
"No posts exist for this topic" -- getting this response for pages 17 and 18.


We just moved a signifigant number of post.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:41:57 PM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "chelsblu"


What was that great John Lennon quote that someone puts under their posts?  Something about reality.


reality sucks???
While this is certainly often true, I think the quote had a more oblique twist to it.


Is this it..........

Surrealism had a great effect on me because then I realised that the imagery in my mind wasn't insanity. Surrealism to me is reality.


NICE- thank you dag


Title: Mental games.
Post by: Compananzi on June 24, 2005, 11:42:10 PM
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


I hope it ends soon, getting tired second guessing back and forth...Perhaps its time to take Joran back the scene of the crime.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:42:35 PM
Where is the best place to get an update on the last 10 hours or so?


Title: Re: Mental games.
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:43:11 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


I hope it ends soon, getting tired second guessing back and forth...Perhaps its time to take Joran back the scene of the crime.


where do u guess that is??????


Title: Re: Mental games.
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:43:24 PM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


I hope it ends soon, getting tired second guessing back and forth...Perhaps its time to take Joran back the scene of the crime.


I was thinking that when I posted about going back there every morning at 3 am. How would he react? Might be the final straw to holding out.


Title: Re: Mental games.
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


I hope it ends soon, getting tired second guessing back and forth...Perhaps its time to take Joran back the scene of the crime.


where do u guess that is??????


Marriot Beach, and a drop site.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:44:32 PM
Hmm, FOM, I meant other than reading all the posts - is there a board that has a list of events. . .I have only been checking this board, but figured there must be a summary SOMEWHERE!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Where is the best place to get an update on the last 10 hours or so?


A summary has not been written in awhile, anyone want to take a stab at it?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:45:28 PM
My bad, FOM, I read your where do you think that is, as my question, not where is the scene!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 11:45:55 PM
What crime??... We don`t even know IF there was a crime commited


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 24, 2005, 11:46:03 PM
Quote from: "DAG"
quote had a more oblique twist to it.


Is this it..........

Surrealism had a great effect on me because then I realised that the imagery in my mind wasn't insanity. Surrealism to me is reality.

Or possibley this.......

Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.[/quote]

You hit it with #2.  But I love the first one & will add it to my cache of well spoken words.  Mnay thanks!


Title: Re: Mental games.
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:46:33 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


I hope it ends soon, getting tired second guessing back and forth...Perhaps its time to take Joran back the scene of the crime.


where do u guess that is??????


Marriot Beach, and a drop site.


u think she went on a boat??? short ride??? where is wiz???
p.s. soory about the jump head first thing... :oops:  :oops:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:46:47 PM
So, what I'm finding in surfing, is that the police have announced that they do think a murder occurred.  Is that right?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 24, 2005, 11:46:50 PM
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
 
if she was not kidnapped or drugged, and say died from choking on a hamburger..would that still be premeditated or something lesser?


Huh?  You're asking me if Natalee were to voluntarily go in the car with Joran, Deepak and Satish...they stop at McDonald's, head up to the lighthouse, and while there, Natalee is, of her own volition, eating a Big Mac, and chokes to death..is that premeditated?

Unless she started choking in their presence, and the 3 boys said, 'screw her...she's better off dead', there's no crime committed.  It would truly be an accidental death.


Okay maybe my analogy was not the greatest..I was inferring that if the death was truly unintentional -- say she did die of alcohol poisoning or because she didn't have her asthma medicine or insulin -- (through no fault the boys but they freaked) in  the US that would not be premeditated. It would be covering up a crime because he was scared sh!tless.
So my point was..I wonder..do Aruban LE truly think it was PRE-meditated murder as you defined (that they went in with malice aforethought)..OR could their definition be different than ours. ANd could their definition be one that would make lying or covering up accidental death pre-meditated.

Never mind..it's not that important and I can't even follow what I just wrote......just curious...we've got all of these legal experts saying pre-meditated but none are allowing for the langauge barriar .. :wink:

I personally think that complicity charge could be because he allowed Joran to go to Casinos, clubs and drink all night long, they might be saying that he allowed the circumstances that allowed something bad to happen. Like getting charged because a kid drank a beer at your house and had a wreck on the way home.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: a Troll on June 24, 2005, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
KackyLacky---Your scenario just doesnt pan out. Paulus VD SLOOT is a TRAINED Lawyer he of all people know that an accidental death is NO-WAY a Prosecutorial Murder Charge. If anything he would have told his son Joran to immediately contact the Police. I just doont buy an accidential death cover-up. The Boy Joran would easily get out of any rap if that scenario had happened. There has to motive to prove Murder, and if there is no motive there is no murder.

GuyWdog

I agree 100%.  If you are innocent, your parent wouldn't suggest you "saying nothing" (although an attorney knowing you committed a crime might...hmmm?) when a parent is at your doorstep at 3am looking for their missing daughter.  I just can't image ANY reason for them to lie OR to say nothing, unless they were trying to cover their behinds about something.

Simple, really.  Suppose Joran is innnocent, but his dad doesn't know he is innocent.   Or Joran is guilty and dad knows he is guilty.   Or dad doesn't know either way so he's playing it safe.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Leila on June 24, 2005, 11:47:42 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
What crime??... We don`t even know IF there was a crime commited


Nataleeís favorite song
The first paragraph was her senior quote written in the yearbook.
Lyrics for Free Bird by Lynyrd Skynyrd

If I leave here tomorrow
Would you still remember me
For I must be traveling on now
Thereís too many places I gotta see
And if I stay here with you girl
Things just wouldnít be the same
For Iím free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows I canít change
Bye bye its been sweet love
Though this feeling I canít change
Please donít take it so bad now
Cause Lord knows Iím to blame
And if I stay here with you girl
Thing just wouldnít be the same
For Iím as free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows I canít change


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:49:02 PM
Can we list specific fact issues that bother us still ... like:
- Natalee's medicine?
- Natalee's passport - this came up this afternoon
- precise definition of complicity under Aruban law
- "the missing guy"


others?


Title: Re: Mental games.
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:49:10 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


I hope it ends soon, getting tired second guessing back and forth...Perhaps its time to take Joran back the scene of the crime.


where do u guess that is??????


Marriot Beach, and a drop site.


u think she went on a boat??? short ride??? where is wiz???
p.s. soory about the jump head first thing... :oops:  :oops:


The only piece I don't have a theory about is the drop site. Unless it was straight out into the ocean, sink the body and let the currents take her away. Or where did Dad take her.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 24, 2005, 11:49:26 PM
I think the only reason the LE did that is to cover all bases, if it`s ever go to trial...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:49:38 PM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Where is the best place to get an update on the last 10 hours or so?


I missed alot too....but, the only news I recall is a further explanation of the charges of all five of them.  I suggest you go to Fox or CNN to get a good description. Basically Joran's is the worst, the other boys second and the Dad third.

All five are expected to be in court soon, one report said tomorrow.  They are flying in a judge to interrogate them all.

That's about it...maybe someone else can add to this.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 11:50:37 PM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
KackyLacky---Your scenario just doesnt pan out. Paulus VD SLOOT is a TRAINED Lawyer he of all people know that an accidental death is NO-WAY a Prosecutorial Murder Charge. If anything he would have told his son Joran to immediately contact the Police. I just doont buy an accidential death cover-up. The Boy Joran would easily get out of any rap if that scenario had happened. There has to motive to prove Murder, and if there is no motive there is no murder.

GuyWdog

I agree 100%.  If you are innocent, your parent wouldn't suggest you "saying nothing" (although an attorney knowing you committed a crime might...hmmm?) when a parent is at your doorstep at 3am looking for their missing daughter.  I just can't image ANY reason for them to lie OR to say nothing, unless they were trying to cover their behinds about something.


as I said in a lower post, this goes thru my mind at times. That said, I am a child of a parent and grandparents of Norway, and I kind of understand how those parents think.

To this day, my Grandmother covers for her son, the alcoholic who everyone know steals from family by saying he is just trying to get ahead and needs help. I bet there are some here from Europe or from recent European descent who understand what their "family's name" means in the world.

I could see my grandfather covering for one of his kids, just because reputation is everything, I mean almost everything to them. It is hard to understand the degree that reputation means to us as Americans.

But, I agree, I wouldn't cover like this for my child, I am not in no way shape or form, rationalizing or excusing anything the VdS's may have done, please understand that!
KackyLacky
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:45 pm

OK I have not taken sides so to speak, but By God if this was my daughter I guess I would be considered a cowgirl, because I would leave no stone unturned. If this was my son, and I have one who is in Iraq as we speak, I would ORDER him to talk to the parents of a girl who came to my door in the middle of the night saying he was the last known person with her. I would MAKE him tell what he knew.......no if ands or buts, and if it incriminated him, then I would deal with that then.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 24, 2005, 11:50:41 PM
Hello, all...

Am I the only one who can gladly never read the lyrics to Freebird, again?  Bad enough they're an overrated and overplayed band.... :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:50:43 PM
Gracias, Nancy-Drew por la informacion.  Will check the MSM and brb.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 24, 2005, 11:51:19 PM
Hi all,
I wish when Gretal was at the Marriott beach she would have turned off the camera lights.  I looked like it would have been pitch black there without them.  Not a place I would want to be in the middle of the night.
BTW did we just lose pages?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:51:53 PM
Yes, L. Orphan, you are the only one in the whole wide world who does not appreciate Freebird.  Sorry.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: neil on June 24, 2005, 11:52:02 PM
If I were writing a novel, I would have all the things that have already happened in this case as the beginning.

The end would have Natalee living in the US under an assumed identity after ther family collected on the five million dollar insurance policy that her stepfather had her buy on her 18th birthday.  The rational for such a large policy without suspicion would be that she could lock in a low premium rate at such a young age and that her insurance man stepfather had a strong belief in over insuring as both protection and as an investment.

Of course Natalee and her family hatched the whole plot to make money and Natalee was just looking for a patsy when she lured Joran to C&C and later got Joran to leave her on the beach that night, after which her stepfather's pals pick her up on the beach and take her away to make it look like Joran did her in.  She never thought the incompentent authorities would have more than suspicion of Joran and the fact that he was trying not to get in trouble with his parents led to the made up story which in turn led to his unintended conviction for murder.

Just a better way to think of this than to face the high probability that Natalee is deceased from an as yet known cause at the hands of an as yet unproven party.  Probably a not much less supported idea than half of the theories advanced anyway.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:52:11 PM
Quote from: "coco"
Can we list specific fact issues that bother us still ... like:
- Natalee's medicine?
- Natalee's passport - this came up this afternoon
- precise definition of complicity under Aruban law
- "the missing guy"


others?


I have many questions for the MBHS kids on the trip, but I have given up on those.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:52:35 PM
Tonight lawyers talking to Greta or was it Jug? said that they charge the top possible charges to start the investigation then sort them out before bringing to trial - did I get that right?

so if I were an Aruban prosecutor, I would go for these big charges like premeditated murder and then assume I might be downgrading that to manslaughter (or equiv) or even criminal negligence or such?

In Dutch law, is there the responsibility to help someone in distress or danger (which we don't have here)?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 24, 2005, 11:54:19 PM
Quote from: "neil"
If I were writing a novel, I would have all the things that have already happened in this case as the beginning.

The end would have Natalee living in the US under an assumed identity after ther family collected on the five million dollar insurance policy that her stepfather had her buy on her 18th birthday.  The rational for such a large policy without suspicion would be that she could lock in a low premium rate at such a young age and that her insurance man stepfather had a strong belief in over insuring as both protection and as an investment.

Of course Natalee and her family hatched the whole plot to make money and Natalee was just looking for a patsy when she lured Joran to C&C and later got Joran to leave her on the beach that night, after which her stepfather's pals pick her up on the beach and take her away to make it look like Joran did her in.  She never thought the incompentent authorities would have more than suspicion of Joran and the fact that he was trying not to get in trouble with his parents led to the made up story which in turn led to his unintended conviction for murder.

Just a better way to think of this than to face the high probability that Natalee is deceased from an as yet known cause at the hands of an as yet unproven party.  Probably a not much less supported idea than half of the theories advanced anyway.


Fanfiction at it's best but in this case would really be totally shocked?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Another K in Texas on June 24, 2005, 11:54:24 PM
If it were insulin, than as a diabetic she would not be supposed to drink at all.

When I  too a youth group to Europe, chaperones had to keep all meds--and the only ones students were allowed to keep were inhalers and those vials for a couple of kids with bad insect sting allergies.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: natfortplum on June 24, 2005, 11:54:53 PM
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.



I noticed the weight change, also, but I was thinking more along the lines of illness.hmmm


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: columbo on June 24, 2005, 11:55:33 PM
>>>While watching Greta tonight she confirmed that Joran was gambling all day with his dad at the Holiday Inn, until his dad got tired and went home. I know that we knew that Joran was at the hotel casino (and met Natalee in the casino), but did we know that his dad was there with him all day? Did dad meet Natalee and have a conversation with her by any chance?<<<

Hmmm.... I didn't know that Dad was with Joran at the HI casino earlier that night. Heard it for the first time on Greta tonight (sorry if I'm slow on the news).

Could it be possible that the Dad "pimped out" his son to get him girls? I remember threads relating to the topic a few nights ago, butI didn't really pay attention to them. After learning more about the elder VDS's past...possible illigitimate child, clueless wife, etc. Is it possible that he encouraged his son to hook up with girls for himelf??  His wife WAS out of town.

Maybe Joran brought her to the beach only to hook up with DAD, she resisted, things got ugly and something bad happened.

COULD DAD HAVE BEEN WAITING AT THE BEACH FOR NATALEE???? What do you guys think? There is no account of Paul's whereabouts during this whole mess, other than he was home asleep and there is noone to backup his alibi because he was home alone (wife was away).


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:55:40 PM
One of the blogs or possibly a newspaper story, had a really good description of what some expats settling in Aruba might feel.  I travel a good bit for work to a Central American country, and found there description to be true of some people.  The story described an arrogance, an attitude of being above the law that some ex-pats have. . .kind of like they have more money, intelligence, etc.  That is my take on PVDS. . .that no one would possibly ever think he or his family could be involved in something like this, so they would get away with it.  Perhaps under the stress of the situation, when asked for advice by his son, that was what he was thinking.


Title: Re: Mental games.
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:55:43 PM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.


I hope it ends soon, getting tired second guessing back and forth...Perhaps its time to take Joran back the scene of the crime.


where do u guess that is??????


Marriot Beach, and a drop site.


u think she went on a boat??? short ride??? where is wiz???
p.s. soory about the jump head first thing... :oops:  :oops:


The only piece I don't have a theory about is the drop site. Unless it was straight out into the ocean, sink the body and let the currents take her away. Or where did Dad take her.


i was thinking she was alive at drop site


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 11:55:55 PM
Quote from: "Leila"
Quote from: "HannieC"
What crime??... We don`t even know IF there was a crime commited


Nataleeís favorite song
The first paragraph was her senior quote written in the yearbook.
Lyrics for Free Bird by Lynyrd Skynyrd

If I leave here tomorrow
Would you still remember me
For I must be traveling on now
Thereís too many places I gotta see
And if I stay here with you girl
Things just wouldnít be the same
For Iím free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows I canít change
Bye bye its been sweet love
Though this feeling I canít change
Please donít take it so bad now
Cause Lord knows Iím to blame
And if I stay here with you girl
Thing just wouldnít be the same
For Iím as free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows I canít change


no offense, but this is one of my favorite songs as well, it really is big in the South, and probably means nothing.   All I have to hear is the line from another song of their's is " Turn It Up" and I am a teenager again.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 24, 2005, 11:56:43 PM
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Hello, all...

Am I the only one who can gladly never read the lyrics to Freebird, again?  Bad enough they're an overrated and overplayed band.... :)


not again...freebird thread please????


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 24, 2005, 11:56:59 PM
The photo on the right has its original title as it was given in the blog where I found it; "WaStEd". It shows Joran and another boy drunkenly tweaking each other's nipples -- pseudo-homoerotic horseplay plenty of straight guys recognize. The photo shows Joran Van Der Sloot the clown, the dutch kid who even though his island of residence, Aruba, says he can't drink till age 18, still was drinking openly whenever the opportunity presented itself.

News reports all indicate that Joran enjoyed gambling, and this is perhaps how he met Natalee Holloway -- playing blackjack in the casino in the same hotel where the American students from Mountain


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 24, 2005, 11:57:05 PM
Absolut - re the other kids - lots of questions here too! The complete silence (I know they were told to be quiet, etc) is weird and I just don't trust the whole scene somehow though I can't figure out how it all fits together.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Tila_Bean on June 24, 2005, 11:57:06 PM
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 24, 2005, 11:57:07 PM
I absolutely do not think that the dad was involved, until the son needed help.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Red on June 24, 2005, 11:57:24 PM
Quote from: "HannieC"
I think the only reason the LE did that is to cover all bases, if it`s ever go to trial...


If it ever goes to trial? Ahhh ... Aruba better hope it goes to trial. You don't have 5 people held on reasonable suspician charges, 3 of which were the last to ever see her and a missing teen.

If that ever occured they best close up shop because that will never fly in America. Right or wrong, that will never wash. We have Joran's mother on TV today whining that its a govt's conspircacy, she been watching too much American CNN. Her son has changed his story how many times and was last to be seen with girl.

Who really thinks he does not know what happened to Natalee, I mean really?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: mordred on June 24, 2005, 11:57:43 PM
GuyWdog[/quote]
I agree 100%.  If you are innocent, your parent wouldn't suggest you "saying nothing" (although an attorney knowing you committed a crime might...hmmm?) when a parent is at your doorstep at 3am looking for their missing daughter.  I just can't image ANY reason for them to lie OR to say nothing, unless they were trying to cover their behinds about something.[/quote]

I believe that the exact works Papa VDS said to his son when confronted by Beth H were in Dutch but translate into "Joran, don't say another word!".
Now remember that Joran was giving Beth H some attitude & thumping his chest.- so Papa VDS' telling him to shut up may have been an attempt to stop him from mouthing off to Beth H! Sometimes context is everything.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 24, 2005, 11:57:45 PM
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


yes I have.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 24, 2005, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.



I noticed the weight change, also, but I was thinking more along the lines of illness.hmmm


OK, if we are gonna think along those lines, which i think is fairly sensible to some extent, then how about anorexia? Maybe she was anorexic, and had a heart attack..which alot of girls suffering from that do..I.E., Karen Carpenter...maybe ....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 24, 2005, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: "bluebob"
One of the blogs or possibly a newspaper story, had a really good description of what some expats settling in Aruba might feel.  I travel a good bit for work to a Central American country, and found there description to be true of some people.  The story described an arrogance, an attitude of being above the law that some ex-pats have. . .kind of like they have more money, intelligence, etc.  That is my take on PVDS. . .that no one would possibly ever think he or his family could be involved in something like this, so they would get away with it.  Perhaps under the stress of the situation, when asked for advice by his son, that was what he was thinking.

Interviews with the law community in Aruba tonight all say the are in shock over his arrest.  They all say he was a quiet, bright man who was well respected.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 24, 2005, 11:59:50 PM
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
If it were insulin, than as a diabetic she would not be supposed to drink at all.

When I  too a youth group to Europe, chaperones had to keep all meds--and the only ones students were allowed to keep were inhalers and those vials for a couple of kids with bad insect sting allergies.


if it was insulin they would have put it on the missing poster as they would for any medication that  she would need to stay alive.  The medication aspect bothers me.  Why is it such a secret?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 25, 2005, 12:00:17 AM
Red - I think it's completely possible that Joran really does not know what happened to Natalee and that that is why he is "not cracking" under interrogation. I wouldn't swear to it but I think it's definitely possible - and in fact hangs together better than most theories in terms of the timeline, etc. just mho


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Rosalie on June 25, 2005, 12:01:37 AM
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "coco"
I've rediscovered gin and tonics this summer - 90 degrees plus in New England - so that's my new drug of choice - but only one or I fall asleep and can't read here.

btw - I don't think WW is defending "them" - I think she's defending truth, justice and the american way - otherwise known as innocent until proven guilty. And I think we should all remember that and how much we do not know as real fact.


You're forgetting the rest of the saying, innocent until proven guilty under the law.  

Public opinion is different than the law.  

You are either guilty or innocent, that doesn't change after a verdict, what does change is your legal status.



COVER STORY !!!!!  He knew something would happen to her ????
How-- why .. We are talking crime free Aruba plus the addition of    ( obviously not needed ) security guards and cameras.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:01:51 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


yes I have.


pms/cramps/airsick/gas/bloating
why is this really important???
what would be your take if she brought condoms??

new thread please for condom theory


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:02:14 AM
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


yes I have.


pms/cramps/airsick/gas/bloating
why is this really important???
what would be your take if she brought condoms??

new thread please for condom theory


condoms, I would think she was pretty smart. As far as the others, they make sense as well.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:03:25 AM
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
If it were insulin, than as a diabetic she would not be supposed to drink at all.

When I  too a youth group to Europe, chaperones had to keep all meds--and the only ones students were allowed to keep were inhalers and those vials for a couple of kids with bad insect sting allergies.


if it was insulin they would have put it on the missing poster as they would for any medication that  she would need to stay alive.  The medication aspect bothers me.  Why is it such a secret?


because some people respect a persons right to medical privacy...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: heartache on June 25, 2005, 12:03:40 AM
Why is her medication so damned important? What if she was on Prozac... and I highly doubt the girl was on BC and if she was that  her mother knew . And if she was on BC, this means what?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 12:04:08 AM
Quote from: "mordred"
GuyWdog

I agree 100%.  If you are innocent, your parent wouldn't suggest you "saying nothing" (although an attorney knowing you committed a crime might...hmmm?) when a parent is at your doorstep at 3am looking for their missing daughter.  I just can't image ANY reason for them to lie OR to say nothing, unless they were trying to cover their behinds about something.[/quote]

I believe that the exact works Papa VDS said to his son when confronted by Beth H were in Dutch but translate into "Joran, don't say another word!".
Now remember that Joran was giving Beth H some attitude & thumping his chest.- so Papa VDS' telling him to shut up may have been an attempt to stop him from mouthing off to Beth H! Sometimes context is everything.[/quote]


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 25, 2005, 12:04:15 AM
Why would an 18 year old girl who doesn't date much be taking b.c. pills. . .and, really, do you think if that is what her meds were, her mother would allude to them to the press.  Duh.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: kuaitzu on June 25, 2005, 12:04:17 AM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be
I noticed the weight change, also, but I was thinking more along the lines of illness.hmmm


OK, if we are gonna think along those lines, which i think is fairly sensible to some extent, then how about anorexia? Maybe she was anorexic, and had a heart attack..which alot of girls suffering from that do..I.E., Karen Carpenter...maybe ....


I am thinking..maybe anorexia too.or depression meds...for some reason the Twittys reacted extremely quickly when they heard that Natalee didn't show up for the plane..I mean they had to suspect something..I'm curious why they felt such an urgency to get there..they weren't even sure if she just fell asleep somewhere. It's almost like they expected something like this was going to happen. Maybe she had been having emotional problems..depression..hence the anorexia and weight loss. Just a thought.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 25, 2005, 12:04:18 AM
Red wrote:

Quote
If it ever goes to trial? Ahhh ... Aruba better hope it goes to trial. You don't have 5 people held on reasonable suspician charges, 3 of which were the last to ever see her and a missing teen.

If that ever occured they best close up shop because that will never fly in America. Right or wrong, that will never wash. We have Joran's mother on TV today whining that its a govt's conspircacy, she been watching too much American CNN. Her son has changed his story how many times and was last to be seen with girl.

Who really thinks he does not know what happened to Natalee, I mean really?


If they hav no evidence for instance ... that`s what I mean then they have to let them go it`s our law I can`t help it.

And as far as we think we know ho many times he changed his story all we think we know is from mediasources!


I have an open mind on this case, I have not seen any evidence what so ever so leaving a girl on the beach and lies does not make you a murderer.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


yes I have.


pms/cramps/airsick/gas/bloating
why is this really important???
what would be your take if she brought condoms??

new thread please for condom theory


If the medication was fatal or would have really bad side effects under certain conditions, X, GHB, alcohol, then it would be very important.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 25, 2005, 12:05:08 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "Another K in Texas"
If it were insulin, than as a diabetic she would not be supposed to drink at all.

When I  too a youth group to Europe, chaperones had to keep all meds--and the only ones students were allowed to keep were inhalers and those vials for a couple of kids with bad insect sting allergies.


if it was insulin they would have put it on the missing poster as they would for any medication that  she would need to stay alive.  The medication aspect bothers me.  Why is it such a secret?


because some people respect a persons right to medical privacy...




Yes, but this isnt about some HIPPA law, this is about a missing girl who may need medicine, such as insulin, to live...seems logical if that were the case, that it WOULD be put on a poster..I mean,why worry about medical privacy when the rest of your life is being plastered all over the world??


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: GuyWdog on June 25, 2005, 12:05:29 AM
-melrose- Most if not ALL Medications react very differently with Alchohol, and everyone I have ever taken has advised to NOT drink Alchohol while taking ANY Meds. IMHO I am leaning towards an accidental death in which she told Jorn she was going back to her room and maybe somehow wandered off adock or somthing. Either that or she is hiding from what she thinks is being embarassed...HOPEFULLY this is the case that she is a run-a-way. I pray for this to be true...In my other thread I said there is way too much death talk on the board.....it seems to me to be a death watch, and then a lynching...

guyWdog


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Tila_Bean on June 25, 2005, 12:05:53 AM
Quote from: "heartache"
Why is her medication so damned important? What if she was on Prozac... and I highly doubt the girl was on BC and if she was that  her mother knew . And if she was on BC, this means what?


Exactly.  It doesn't mean anything.  I don't think the meds are being brought up for a purpose-->It's not that important.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:06:19 AM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "HannieC"
I think the only reason the LE did that is to cover all bases, if it`s ever go to trial...


If it ever goes to trial? Ahhh ... Aruba better hope it goes to trial. You don't have 5 people held on reasonable suspician charges, 3 of which were the last to ever see her and a missing teen.

If that ever occured they best close up shop because that will never fly in America. Right or wrong, that will never wash. We have Joran's mother on TV today whining that its a govt's conspircacy, she been watching too much American CNN. Her son has changed his story how many times and was last to be seen with girl.

Who really thinks he does not know what happened to Natalee, I mean really?


He definitely knows Red!!  maybe he just couldn't implicate daddy in some
how providing cover-up..now maybe joran will see truth as his way out.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:06:43 AM
I doubt that her mother is going to refer to birth control pills as "her medication."  It could be any number of things realistically from allergies to who knows what.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: heartache on June 25, 2005, 12:06:47 AM
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: natfortplum on June 25, 2005, 12:06:51 AM
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.



I noticed the weight change, also, but I was thinking more along the lines of illness.hmmm


OK, if we are gonna think along those lines, which i think is fairly sensible to some extent, then how about anorexia? Maybe she was anorexic, and had a heart attack..which alot of girls suffering from that do..I.E., Karen Carpenter...maybe ....



Didn't some say she was a perfectionist? Don't people with anorexia tend to be ? Just throwing questions out there.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:07:01 AM
Quote from: "heartache"
Why is her medication so damned important? What if she was on Prozac... and I highly doubt the girl was on BC and if she was that  her mother knew . And if she was on BC, this means what?



alcohol that is why, but it still does not excuse foul play. No matter what the med was, if there was a med. Bottom line


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Microcephalic on June 25, 2005, 12:07:07 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Leila"
Quote from: "HannieC"
What crime??... We don`t even know IF there was a crime commited


Nataleeís favorite song
The first paragraph was her senior quote written in the yearbook.
Lyrics for Free Bird by Lynyrd Skynyrd

If I leave here tomorrow
Would you still remember me
For I must be traveling on now
Thereís too many places I gotta see
And if I stay here with you girl
Things just wouldnít be the same
For Iím free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows I canít change
Bye bye its been sweet love
Though this feeling I canít change
Please donít take it so bad now
Cause Lord knows Iím to blame
And if I stay here with you girl
Thing just wouldnít be the same
For Iím as free as a bird now
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
And this bird you can not change
Lord knows I canít change


no offense, but this is one of my favorite songs as well, it really is big in the South, and probably means nothing.   All I have to hear is the line from another song of their's is " Turn It Up" and I am a teenager again.


On a hunch, I got out my old record player and Lynyrd Skynyrd albums.  I played Free Bird in reverse and sure enough it details how the real Natalee was killed in a car crash in London in 1973 and the girl in Aruba was an imposter.  So we've established that Natalee had questionable taste in music but how does this fit in with her disappearance?  Not meaning to make light of recent events but I think it more likely that the reference simply signifies her leaving home and moving on with her life.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 25, 2005, 12:07:12 AM
I agree, the type of med could be very important - now and at trial.  Also, a 17 year old who received advice not only from his parent, but from his parent/judicial official. . .probably really hard for a court to get much of a conviction, ya know.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nikkibnurse on June 25, 2005, 12:07:44 AM
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.



I noticed the weight change, also, but I was thinking more along the lines of illness.hmmm


OK, if we are gonna think along those lines, which i think is fairly sensible to some extent, then how about anorexia? Maybe she was anorexic, and had a heart attack..which alot of girls suffering from that do..I.E., Karen Carpenter...maybe ....



Didn't some say she was a perfectionist? Don't people with anorexia tend to be ? Just throwing questions out there.


yes, they do...which is part of the reason they fall into that whole cycle...very good point


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: klaasend on June 25, 2005, 12:07:45 AM
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Quote from: "heartache"
Why is her medication so damned important? What if she was on Prozac... and I highly doubt the girl was on BC and if she was that  her mother knew . And if she was on BC, this means what?


Exactly.  It doesn't mean anything.  I don't think the meds are being brought up for a purpose-->It's not that important.

Unless the medication was "vanishing cream"  :lol:
(sorry...couldn't help myself)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 25, 2005, 12:08:02 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


yes I have.


pms/cramps/airsick/gas/bloating
why is this really important???
what would be your take if she brought condoms??

new thread please for condom theory


If the medication was fatal or would have really bad side effects under certain conditions, X, GHB, alcohol, then it would be very important.

it's not why she was taking the medicine, rather what the effects would be combined with other substances.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 12:08:21 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "mordred"
GuyWdog

I agree 100%.  If you are innocent, your parent wouldn't suggest you "saying nothing" (although an attorney knowing you committed a crime might...hmmm?) when a parent is at your doorstep at 3am looking for their missing daughter.  I just can't image ANY reason for them to lie OR to say nothing, unless they were trying to cover their behinds about something.


I believe that the exact works Papa VDS said to his son when confronted by Beth H were in Dutch but translate into "Joran, don't say another word!".
Now remember that Joran was giving Beth H some attitude & thumping his chest.- so Papa VDS' telling him to shut up may have been an attempt to stop him from mouthing off to Beth H! Sometimes context is everything.[/quote][/quote]

I keep goofing up replies...
NANCY DREW'S REPLY BEGINS HERE.....


My thoughts originally were that if a kid is missing in the middle of the night...and another family/kid can help fill in the blanks on that missing person...they would naturally do so immediatly.  HOWEVER, I do think anyone with a law degree might have a different view...guilty or innocent.  

I'm struggling with this one...it's a fascinating situation..a father who is a judge...which was explained tonight is far different legally than a regular dad giving a kid advice....Paulas comments to Joran could be considered  official "legal advice"...

Trying to sort it all out...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:08:22 AM
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Then Joran would probably have called the police like any normal person would have.  And he would have confessed by now also.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: heartache on June 25, 2005, 12:08:35 AM
NH doesn't even look close to being anorexic... and so what if she was. What if she was a voluntary anorexic, who lovedx and loved to drink and loved to have sex with strange boys. What sayeth you now?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Daniel on June 25, 2005, 12:09:01 AM
Quote from: "coco"
In Dutch law, is there the responsibility to help someone in distress or danger (which we don't have here)?

Yes. To abandon someone who is in danger (while you were able to help) is a criminal offence and if the person dies, may lead to up to 10 years in jail if I recall correctly.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:09:03 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Why would an 18 year old girl who doesn't date much be taking b.c. pills. . .and, really, do you think if that is what her meds were, her mother would allude to them to the press.  Duh.


cramps, acne. I did, and I was a virgin. It happens, but does not excuse  foul play


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:10:02 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:10:25 AM
Quote from: "Daniel"
Quote from: "coco"
In Dutch law, is there the responsibility to help someone in distress or danger (which we don't have here)?

Yes. To abandon someone who is in danger (while you were able to help) is a criminal offence and if the person dies, may lead to up to 10 years in jail if I recall correctly.


God, I would hope so, to do that is almost as bad as killing them ones self. Remember the woman who left the man she hit in her windshield?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 25, 2005, 12:10:26 AM
I know we discuss this every night but I know that I've told my kids that if questioned by the cops, they are to say yes sir and no sir and that's about it. Offer no info, etc .... that's because I took legal courses and it was drummed into us - you can say the most innocent thing, the most true thing and yet find yourself in very bad situations.

And I think the VDSs may have thought Natalee was just another american teen who got too drunk or something at the time the family arrived (suggested by the kick her butt statement as well) then they would not react in 'gee, this is an emergency - tell everything you know" mode.


Title: Am I The Only One?
Post by: Michial on June 25, 2005, 12:11:03 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that all these officials are looking for someone to pin this murder on?  Seems to me that it would be real easy if they could find a suspect who was "not all there"?

However, I will never believe that Natalee would run away, especially being that she could leave on her own free will at 18.  I no longer think that she is alive.  As for PVDS, it seems he did contribute to covering up whatever did happen that night.  And in my own opinion, this was no accident.  What worries me is:  Is Natalee the only one?    

As a daughter, I can say that I would be very grateful that I had parents who were as persistent in their search for me.  Especially, parents who would not go home without me.  The search without surrender is an action that could never be measured in words.  God Bless


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: klaasend on June 25, 2005, 12:11:18 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....

Huh?  How is that indicative of someone running away?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Red on June 25, 2005, 12:11:47 AM
Quote from: "coco"
Red - I think it's completely possible that Joran really does not know what happened to Natalee and that that is why he is "not cracking" under interrogation. I wouldn't swear to it but I think it's definitely possible - and in fact hangs together better than most theories in terms of the timeline, etc. just mho


Exactly how does it hang together with a time line? Father picks him up at 11pm only for son to leave and go to C&C's w/o dad's knowledge. Papa VDS can not provide alibi for son. Son has lied more than once that we know of with what happened that night. Son admits he was last one alone with her and miraculously just left her on the beach by herself.

Mother claims her son is a choir boy yet according to Greta tonight, dad & son were in casino gambling. ??? Father knowingly brings son into the casino's at 17? Just do not buy it that he does not know.

Why would dad tell him to be quiet?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 25, 2005, 12:11:54 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"


not again...freebird thread please????


NOOOOOO!!!!!! ;)

On topic: Going through those tickle sites again tonight I noticed two things commonly mentioned. One, easy enough: the Marriott parties.  The other, maybe a cultural slang thing that differs from area to area -- trippin.  Is LSD as popular a recreational drug in Aruba as it is in the US, and might that not be an obvious source for "something bad" happening?


Title: Just the facts again?
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 12:11:54 AM
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


No, did not think if that...actually what are the chances both are virgins?  We know both sides claim these are good son/daughter.  You know saving it for marriage etc?  I digress...The only thing that worries me is the fact that Joran walks back home that is amazing.  In Aruba, no one want to walk too far.  

My speculation:

1. if Joran did find himself in a murder and accidental death, and called his father, we would have to check PVDS statement against the cell phone statement. (Time line is the mantra here.).
2. Don;t know how far that beach was from his Montana house...12 min driving, that that would be what 30-45 walk, in a pitch dark aruba road...not sure how dark tho...Don;t live there..
3. Verify if the next morning he went to school, verify verify, bring in eyewitness, school teachers, school schedule, that would put a time line where if Joran killed Nat, a logical time end for that day.
4. Verify what PVDS did during that 2-6am Monday 31 time frame...this is to see if he was sleeping or made a few calls to cover up Jorans dilemma. Also verify if he went to work that day.  I wonder who brings Joran to school...Oh they did have exams that week no? Maybe the father drove him...especially exams would set a time benchmark.
5. Find whereabouts of Steve Croes, since he was access to boats, a like way to dump a body..then they need to find alibi s of SGC.  
6. Question also any other brother or sister of all the suspect to see how it differ from the time line chart.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:11:57 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: heartache on June 25, 2005, 12:12:01 AM
Oh I see DT... 17 yr old boy meets strange girl, who loves x, booze and sex and dies during a romp on the sand... he immediately calls 911  :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:12:07 AM
Quote from: "DT"
I doubt that her mother is going to refer to birth control pills as "her medication."  It could be any number of things realistically from allergies to who knows what.


my mom would and i'm 34.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: arrabba on June 25, 2005, 12:12:37 AM
Quote from: "heartache"
Why is her medication so damned important? What if she was on Prozac... and I highly doubt the girl was on BC and if she was that  her mother knew . And if she was on BC, this means what?


The only reasons I can think of why people are interested in her medication:

- medication's reaction to alcohol and/or date rape drugs
- if she is alive, will not having her medicine be a big problem for her?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: doman4 on June 25, 2005, 12:13:08 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
Why would an 18 year old girl who doesn't date much be taking b.c. pills. . .and, really, do you think if that is what her meds were, her mother would allude to them to the press.  Duh.



Sometimes young women or girls go on bc pills to regulate their periods


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 25, 2005, 12:13:19 AM
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
-melrose- Most if not ALL Medications react very differently with Alchohol, and everyone I have ever taken has advised to NOT drink Alchohol while taking ANY Meds. IMHO I am leaning towards an accidental death in which she told Jorn she was going back to her room and maybe somehow wandered off adock or somthing. Either that or she is hiding from what she thinks is being embarassed...HOPEFULLY this is the case that she is a run-a-way. I pray for this to be true...In my other thread I said there is way too much death talk on the board.....it seems to me to be a death watch, and then a lynching...

guyWdog


I too temd to think her death may have been accidental.  I know from my experience when I am taking medication and I have  a drink and i'm fine then I will do both at the same time.  Maybe that is why Nat continued to drink without worrying, but on the last night something else was added to the mix that became fatal.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 12:13:19 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


I believe her Passport and the balance of her money was found. Not her ID.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 12:13:28 AM
Quote from: "heartache"
Why is her medication so damned important? What if she was on Prozac... and I highly doubt the girl was on BC and if she was that  her mother knew . And if she was on BC, this means what?


The reason I brought up asthma medication:  It seems that if you use asthma medication,,,ruffies can depress breathing..and of course the night air can effect asthma as well..Just a thought,, as Beth mentioned it "All her luggage, passport, money and her medication was in her room"


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 12:13:42 AM
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be all wrong, but. . .looking at some of the pictures of Natalee - she seems really thin in the recent photos.  Just wondering if she lost weight for prom, like girls (my daughter) do.  110 pounds is thin for her height. . .with her system already trying to handle the alcohol, possibly some of her own medication too - if she was then given drugs, it's easy to see what might have happened.



I noticed the weight change, also, but I was thinking more along the lines of illness.hmmm


Or maybe she does drugs. (ducking, stopping, dropping and rolling, trying to dodge the bullets). I know, I know......but it's a possibility..One of my best friends, well off financially, Sunday school teacher, married to a physician, she is a nurse, they have two children, boy then girl, the perfect family....is now in drug rehab. No one knew for a long while except one person that suspected only because of one particular circumstance that happened.

No NO No...I do not think Natalee was on coke.. I'm just saying it happens. AND, unfortunately, that it can easily happen to overachievers as well as the rest of us slugs.    :cry:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 12:13:51 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


Yeah, I do not see that either..murder and hiding the body would be one of the premise one has to go inorder to fit the puzzle.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: da wench on June 25, 2005, 12:14:23 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Then Joran would probably have called the police like any normal person would have.  And he would have confessed by now also.


I'm so confused.  I think it was accidental but I cannot understand why he wouldn't confess...unless his father was able to convinced him the body will never be found.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Microcephalic on June 25, 2005, 12:14:35 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....

Huh?  How is that indicative of someone running away?


What would be her motive for running away anyway?  She just graduated, was apparently having the time of her life, well right up until she hooked up with Joran, and was set to go off to college and really begin her life.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:15:08 AM
Quote from: "heartache"
Oh I see DT... 17 yr old boy meets strange girl, who loves x, booze and sex and dies during a romp on the sand... he immediately calls 911  :roll:


If I knew someone was dying I would immediately call 911 (or whatever they do in aruba)  doesn't matter what the situation was.  How would he know she loves booze x etc. he just met her?  

If he did dispose of the body he would have needed help, so when these boys are facing murder charges why not just confess that she died accidently? I sure as hell wouldn't risk going to jail to help my friend cover up an accidental death.


Title: The 'Missing Guy'
Post by: SoInSo on June 25, 2005, 12:15:53 AM
I believe the comment about the missing guy was made by Greta, in her first 'exclusive' this week - the night she walked the island. She said in her intro that there were many unfounded rumors flying around on the ground in Aruba, then spoke of a person who was supposedly on Natalee's flight who had not left the island, something to that effect, then she moved right on to the next thing. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering that right. She emphasized that it was one of many rumors flying around. Hope that helps :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 25, 2005, 12:16:04 AM
And I think that a lot of people are too eager to put the blame on someone....!!

It feels so wrong ,but hey I have my own opinion just as you all do :wink:

I don`t believe in people tried with sensational mediahypes and judge and sentence out of courts..... by public opinions!

So I sure as ....  hope that the LE žn aruba do there jobs as the DUTCH law requires without the pressure from the US or anybody


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:16:06 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Daniel"
Quote from: "coco"
In Dutch law, is there the responsibility to help someone in distress or danger (which we don't have here)?

Yes. To abandon someone who is in danger (while you were able to help) is a criminal offence and if the person dies, may lead to up to 10 years in jail if I recall correctly.


God, I would hope so, to do that is almost as bad as killing them ones self. Remember the woman who left the man she hit in her windshield?


that was so twisted/sick...the morning after nightmare  for both


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:16:23 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....

Huh?  How is that indicative of someone running away?


If I took my $$, passport and ID, they might think I did.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 25, 2005, 12:17:06 AM
Quote from: "monkey c"
The photo on the right has its original title as it was given in the blog where I found it; "WaStEd". It shows Joran and another boy

address?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KKM on June 25, 2005, 12:17:10 AM
Oh my - anorexia, drug problems, condoms, Jug bashing, key man insurance?  I'm sure there are more, I've just forgotten them after reading the last 20 pages.

I hate to say this, but I recommended this site to a friend of mine who Natalee babysits for.  What in the world is she going to think about this place?

Thanks to those of you staying realistic and positive, or at least supportive of this situation.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Red on June 25, 2005, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
Red wrote:

Quote
If it ever goes to trial? Ahhh ... Aruba better hope it goes to trial. You don't have 5 people held on reasonable suspician charges, 3 of which were the last to ever see her and a missing teen.

If that ever occured they best close up shop because that will never fly in America. Right or wrong, that will never wash. We have Joran's mother on TV today whining that its a govt's conspircacy, she been watching too much American CNN. Her son has changed his story how many times and was last to be seen with girl.

Who really thinks he does not know what happened to Natalee, I mean really?


If they hav no evidence for instance ... that`s what I mean then they have to let them go it`s our law I can`t help it.

And as far as we think we know ho many times he changed his story all we think we know is from mediasources!


I have an open mind on this case, I have not seen any evidence what so ever so leaving a girl on the beach and lies does not make you a murderer.


Open mind is fine, but keep eyes open as well. One is not perpetually in the wrong place at the wrong time without reason,.

My point was more that Aruba best find who did this. Lets say it was accidental death hypothetically, a person just does not disappear. An unsolved disappearance will affect Aruba more than if this does turn out to be a suspected murder as the police said today.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: klaasend on June 25, 2005, 12:18:39 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....

Huh?  How is that indicative of someone running away?


If I took my $$, passport and ID, they might think I did.

Except there is absolutely nothing in Natalee's past behavior that indicates she would contimplate running away....nothing.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 25, 2005, 12:19:18 AM
I don't remember anything about Greta's reporting that another student did not return???????????


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 12:19:18 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
((((HUGS)))

Man, what a day! Could NOT get home from work..grrrr first a firetruck got hit, then the roads closed due to an officer being shot and killed  :cry:

Anyhow, is it just me, or does anyone else feel frustrated due to the "english" language understanding barrier, that when these Aruba people are interviewed they get lead into this rabbit hole...almost like they are on the stand as a trial witness... I feel more confused everytime they do an interview. Everything they say is so misconstrued...

Maybe it's just me...


{{{{CALI}}}} No it's not just you. Laguage barriers are very much a part of this case!!


IS 'NO SHIT'  still international????



I dunno, I do have to say this one Arubian female spokesperson oh 3 nights ago on Hannity and Combs, was so cute and had an adorable arubian english accent. :wink:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 12:20:04 AM
Quote from: "kuaitzu"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I could be
I noticed the weight change, also, but I was thinking more along the lines of illness.hmmm


OK, if we are gonna think along those lines, which i think is fairly sensible to some extent, then how about anorexia? Maybe she was anorexic, and had a heart attack..which alot of girls suffering from that do..I.E., Karen Carpenter...maybe ....


I am thinking..maybe anorexia too.or depression meds...for some reason the Twittys reacted extremely quickly when they heard that Natalee didn't show up for the plane..I mean they had to suspect something..I'm curious why they felt such an urgency to get there..they weren't even sure if she just fell asleep somewhere. It's almost like they expected something like this was going to happen. Maybe she had been having emotional problems..depression..hence the anorexia and weight loss. Just a thought.


I think the comments you've made are way off base.  Natalee doesn't look anorexic at all.  She's a fit, young woman IMO.  Have you seen an anorexic?  Not even close.  So now we're questioning a mothers quick trip to help find her missing daughter? So she should have waited a day, had a manicure and haircut?  Yikes.  I hope this case is solved soon...first for the family, and second, so some of these wild comments will cease.

Tonight someone sent me a link to a site where it appears members of Scared Monkeys must be posing as one person to pitch theories from this forum to psychics!!!  The person posting says they live in Aruba...but, it's really doubtful that's true.  Sorta shocking the lengths some people will go to further their theories....

Sheesh....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:20:09 AM
Quote from: "coco"
I know we discuss this every night but I know that I've told my kids that if questioned by the cops, they are to say yes sir and no sir and that's about it. Offer no info, etc .... that's because I took legal courses and it was drummed into us - you can say the most innocent thing, the most true thing and yet find yourself in very bad situations.

And I think the VDSs may have thought Natalee was just another american teen who got too drunk or something at the time the family arrived (suggested by the kick her butt statement as well) then they would not react in 'gee, this is an emergency - tell everything you know" mode.


If tonight a cop came to my door and said my son was last seen with a girl from England, Russia, Canada or Turkey ( mind you, that would be hard as he is in Iraq) I would have my son tell everything he knows, and I mean everything. Reason being, if the shoe was on the other foot, I would want a parent to do the same.
This happened to my sister, her boyfriend's parents knew where they were hiding when they ran away--he was 19 and she was 16----they said nothing! Finally about 2 weeks later, sis called a friend and the gig was up. I had never seen my Dad cry until the night they could not find sis.
To do less, is inhumane. If my son had some criminal involvement in a girl's disappearance, then he would have to face whatever the legal system had in store for him with legal counsel.
We went thru this with a vandalism issue, my son told the cops what he did, the other boys involvement came out eventually, and the legal system did it's thing. Actions take responsibility. Trust me, it was one of the hardest things I ever did to MAKE him come clean with LE, but it was the right thing to do. It changed his life and running buddies.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 12:20:29 AM
Quote from: "KKM"
Oh my - anorexia, drug problems, condoms, Jug bashing, key man insurance?  I'm sure there are more, I've just forgotten them after reading the last 20 pages.

I hate to say this, but I recommended this site to a friend of mine who Natalee babysits for.  What in the world is she going to think about this place?

Thanks to those of you staying realistic and positive, or at least supportive of this situation.


Thanks to you too,,,I have tried to keep the facts straight,,,only what we know,,,and that is a timeline from 1 am until Joran went to school...
We do not know what the LE knows,,,the boys could very well have told them exactly what happened.. My heart goes out to the family,,and hope they do not read this blog....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: AzRose on June 25, 2005, 12:21:01 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?


Her ID was found in her room?  She did not have it with her when she went out that evening?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:21:12 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 25, 2005, 12:21:14 AM
LilOrphan - teens here (New England) say "trippin'" to mean flipping out as in "she was really trippin' coz he went out with so-and-so"

Red - I don't see enough time that night for Joran and Dad to pull together a murder and dispose of body ... it just seems off (how's that for serious reasoning! I think I'm getting tired - sorry. I think I need to go back to something I posted earlier where I had this all figured out coz my brain will not recreate it now)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Red on June 25, 2005, 12:21:28 AM
Good night all - Pray for Natalee and her family. They are supposed to be a fund raiser tomorrow for her in MB.

See you all tomorrow ...


Title: Yuckhoo.
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 12:21:34 AM
Quote from: "KKM"
Oh my - anorexia, drug problems, condoms, Jug bashing, key man insurance?  I'm sure there are more, I've just forgotten them after reading the last 20 pages.

I hate to say this, but I recommended this site to a friend of mine who Natalee babysits for.  What in the world is she going to think about this place?

Thanks to those of you staying realistic and positive, or at least supportive of this situation.


You definately don't want to go to Yahoo message boards..it goes nowhere fast.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:22:18 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


I believe her Passport and the balance of her money was found. Not her ID.


hmmmm


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: kuaitzu on June 25, 2005, 12:22:23 AM
WHAT IF...the LE put PVDS in jail to smoke out someone else?? Like they did by letting the trio go in th beginning..to follow. bug..etc.??. Maybe someone else involved will be bragging that they got away with something>>??


Title: Re: Just the facts again?
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Anyone else just think birth control pills when medication was mentioned?   :shock:


No, did not think if that...actually what are the chances both are virgins?  We know both sides claim these are good son/daughter.  You know saving it for marriage etc?  I digress...The only thing that worries me is the fact that Joran walks back home that is amazing.  In Aruba, no one want to walk too far.  

My speculation:

1. if Joran did find himself in a murder and accidental death, and called his father, we would have to check PVDS statement against the cell phone statement. (Time line is the mantra here.).
2. Don;t know how far that beach was from his Montana house...12 min driving, that that would be what 30-45 walk, in a pitch dark aruba road...not sure how dark tho...Don;t live there..
3. Verify if the next morning he went to school, verify verify, bring in eyewitness, school teachers, school schedule, that would put a time line where if Joran killed Nat, a logical time end for that day.
4. Verify what PVDS did during that 2-6am Monday 31 time frame...this is to see if he was sleeping or made a few calls to cover up Jorans dilemma. Also verify if he went to work that day.  I wonder who brings Joran to school...Oh they did have exams that week no? Maybe the father drove him...especially exams would set a time benchmark.
5. Find whereabouts of Steve Croes, since he was access to boats, a like way to dump a body..then they need to find alibi s of SGC.  
6. Question also any other brother or sister of all the suspect to see how it differ from the time line chart.


good point about questioning siblings....
and yes roads are very dark leaving hotel area/anywhere not main road is scary..in a car alone nevermind on foot.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: klaasend on June 25, 2005, 12:22:49 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
I don't remember anything about Greta's reporting that another student did not return???????????

I don't think it was another student.  It was just someone else on that same flight.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 25, 2005, 12:23:33 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote


I think the comments you've made are way off base.  Natalee doesn't look anorexic at all.  She's a fit, young woman IMO.  Have you seen an anorexic?  Not even close.  So now we're questioning a mothers quick trip to help find her missing daughter? So she should have waited a day, had a manicure and haircut?  Yikes.  I hope this case is solved soon...first for the family, and second, so some of these wild comments will cease.

Tonight someone sent me a link to a site where it appears members of Scared Monkeys must be posing as one person to pitch theories from this forum to psychics!!!  The person posting says they live in Aruba...but, it's really doubtful that's true.  Sorta shocking the lengths some people will go to further their theories....

Sheesh....


Totally agree. Don't see anorexia by a long shot. Maybe she was deliberately trying to lose a bit of weight for a trip to Aruba that meant bathing suits and skimpy clothes?

About that psychic thing, would you be willing to share link via PM or here? That's nuts.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kipster on June 25, 2005, 12:23:34 AM
>>Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?

I read/saw she had her ID on her, passport in the room. BTW, one can fly into & out of Aruba (US) w/ a US driver's license & a birth certificate. A notarized copy worked for me with some persuassion at the ATL airport leaving, then upon leaving Aruba airport, they didn't look twice. ;) Pre 9/11...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 12:23:56 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "DT"
I doubt that her mother is going to refer to birth control pills as "her medication."  It could be any number of things realistically from allergies to who knows what.


my mom would and i'm 34.


I was thinking the same thing :D


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: arrabba on June 25, 2005, 12:24:11 AM
Quote from: "bluebob"
I don't remember anything about Greta's reporting that another student did not return???????????


Not a student, another tourist,  He was on ths plane with MB students and stayed at the Holiday Inn, just like Natalee.

I wonder if he witnessed treachery...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 12:24:11 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


I believe her Passport and the balance of her money was found. Not her ID.


hmmmm


When kids go to a bar, they take money and an ID...
Nothing odd about that...it's routine.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:24:12 AM
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....

Huh?  How is that indicative of someone running away?


What would be her motive for running away anyway?  She just graduated, was apparently having the time of her life, well right up until she hooked up with Joran, and was set to go off to college and really begin her life.


yes apparently, the time of her life.....you don't know how she felt inside...maybe she wanted to travel afar after high school not attend UofA


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 12:24:12 AM
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Then Joran would probably have called the police like any normal person would have.  And he would have confessed by now also.


I'm so confused.  I think it was accidental but I cannot understand why he wouldn't confess...unless his father was able to convinced him the body will never be found.


He plays cards, and so far, my "impression" is he does it well.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....

Huh?  How is that indicative of someone running away?


If I took my $$, passport and ID, they might think I did.

Except there is absolutely nothing in Natalee's past behavior that indicates she would contimplate running away....nothing.


her passport was in her room at the HI
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html
Quote
Holloway vanished during a five-day trip to the Dutch Caribbean island with 124 classmates and seven chaperones celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook, Ala., High School, near Birmingham. Police found her U.S. passport and packed bags in her hotel room after she failed to show up for her return flight that day.


so the point is moot and another rumor disspelled about the passport--she probably had her ID with her to go to the bars, I would.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:25:17 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 25, 2005, 12:25:50 AM
Actually, I post here because this board stays really clean.  Just bcuz something doesn't fit in with your opinion, doesn't mean it isn't right.  I never said anorexia.  But I do know that 110 pounds on a 5' 4" frame is rather thin.  10 years ago when I was 110 on a 5'2" frame, people kept telling me to put bricks in my pockets in case a strong wind came.  And a smaller body has a difficult time handling the alcohol and the medication.  If drugs were added too, it could be lethal.  I guess I would like to believe that this wasn't a cold-blooded murder from lack of anger management.  And I do believe that Natalee wasn't used to partying like this.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 12:26:24 AM
http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

Please go see the recent pictures of Joran on this site.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: HannieC on June 25, 2005, 12:26:39 AM
G`nite all, getting a headache again..... :wink:

Later all


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:26:50 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....

Huh?  How is that indicative of someone running away?


If I took my $$, passport and ID, they might think I did.

Except there is absolutely nothing in Natalee's past behavior that indicates she would contimplate running away....nothing.


You know her well, can you help me gather some insight?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 12:27:30 AM
[/quote]
Interviews with the law community in Aruba tonight all say the are in shock over his arrest.  They all say he was a quiet, bright man who was
well respected.[/quote]

Ted Bundy was a bright man too.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 12:27:38 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
And I think that a lot of people are too eager to put the blame on someone....!!

It feels so wrong ,but hey I have my own opinion just as you all do :wink:

I don`t believe in people tried with sensational mediahypes and judge and sentence out of courts..... by public opinions!

So I sure as ....  hope that the LE žn aruba do there jobs as the DUTCH law requires without the pressure from the US or anybody


HannieC...I hope so, also.  For the USA, The Netherlands and for the nation of Aruba.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 12:28:01 AM
The nipple pulling is something to be desired and then he's passed out-------


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:28:16 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "DT"
I doubt that her mother is going to refer to birth control pills as "her medication."  It could be any number of things realistically from allergies to who knows what.


my mom would and i'm 34.


I was thinking the same thing :D


thanx..maybe i'm not nuts...just banannas!!  :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 12:28:51 AM
http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

Some looks at Joran


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: BlueBob on June 25, 2005, 12:28:58 AM
Actually, when you travel in some countries, you don't have to carry your actual passport at all times.  Because they are often stolen and have a very quick street value, you are advised to carry multiple copies of your passport with you, but to keep your real passport locked in your room.  This is probably the case in Aruba.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:30:56 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


I believe her Passport and the balance of her money was found. Not her ID.


hmmmm


When kids go to a bar, they take money and an ID...
Nothing odd about that...it's routine.



No, hmmmm... having her ID helps to leave the island.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: LilOrphan on June 25, 2005, 12:31:05 AM
Quote from: "coco"
Quote
LilOrphan - teens here (New England) say "trippin'" to mean flipping out as in "she was really trippin' coz he went out with so-and-so"


Statements were more like "when we were tripping" and "we have to trip again" kind of things.  But who knows what that stands for in Aruba. Could be anything.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 12:31:26 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Interviews with the law community in Aruba tonight all say the are in shock over his arrest.  They all say he was a quiet, bright man who was
well respected.[/quote]

Ted Bundy was a bright man too.[/quote]

Yeah but Bundy had about 25 people burried in his back yard... :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 25, 2005, 12:32:07 AM
KackyLacky - sorry, I'm sleepy and typing/reading slow -

on the talking to police issue - the one time my daughter did something that I knew she had done, I called the police and told her to get ready to answer questions (she had driven my car into the driveway before she had her license and hit the neighbor's car - the neighbor's said "don't get her into trouble, she didn't mean to do it" but my take was she did it, she deals with it - and she did.

But if the cops showed up in the middle of the night with 5 wildeyed guys including Jug, I'd be very hesitant for her or my son to answer questions until I knew what was going on.

And remember, Joran offered to talk according to Jug - PVDS and Deepak were told him not to.


Title: Oh oh
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 12:32:59 AM
Quote from: "HannieC"
And I think that a lot of people are too eager to put the blame on someone....!!

It feels so wrong ,but hey I have my own opinion just as you all do :wink:

I don`t believe in people tried with sensational mediahypes and judge and sentence out of courts..... by public opinions!

So I sure as ....  hope that the LE žn aruba do there jobs as the DUTCH law requires without the pressure from the US or anybody


I do not like a hurried judgement, and surely not the pressure from the grieving family.   I have to confess that in the very beginning I had Joran as prime suspect.  It start changing after no confession and somewhat longer interrogation.  I know the family says that there needs to add more pressure, and that gets me annoyed, as if your saying torture.  It lends some sympathy to Joran. However I cannot square of the part he says he walked home after the beach.  If I was in Jorans corner I d say...that at the beach no sex was engaged for reasons of a: noone brought safe protection, and or I do not think one does sex right on the beach.. if that is the case I d check Jorans clothes and Hamper at home for beach sand.  So no sex, a friendly walk on the beach, they part because a: Joran needs to go home to get ready for exams, and Nat is probably tired and goes to HI...however far ithat might be ....maybe Joran walks her to that point maybe not, Id have to know the nearest intersection from that Marriot beach to the first avail street that will got to Montana.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 12:34:14 AM
Quote from: "monkey c"
http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

Some looks at Joran


Please you guys have to see this if you haven't already- it was updated at 8:05 tonight


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:34:54 AM
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Then Joran would probably have called the police like any normal person would have.  And he would have confessed by now also.


I'm so confused.  I think it was accidental but I cannot understand why he wouldn't confess...unless his father was able to convinced him the body will never be found.


He plays cards, and so far, my "impression" is he does it well.


so she accidentally disappeared?? into the water?? 1/2 truth maybe...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 12:34:59 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Interviews with the law community in Aruba tonight all say the are in shock over his arrest.  They all say he was a quiet, bright man who was
well respected.[/quote]

Ted Bundy was a bright man too.[/quote]

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG WITH THE REPLY?
NANCY DREW'S POST STARTS HERE...

That's a gross overstatement...Bundy wasn't respected as a long time member of the legal community as a good man...quiet and soft spoken.  I'm not defending him...but, hate to see such nasty statements without knowing all the facts.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:35:25 AM
Quote from: "coco"
KackyLacky - sorry, I'm sleepy and typing/reading slow -

And remember, Joran offered to talk according to Jug - PVDS and Deepak were told him not to.


getting ready to sign off here as well but that is my point,

why did the dad not let his son help the missing girls parents? I just don't understand it at all in a human way. As far as deepak, that just makes me think he knows more than he wants anyone else to know even his mother for that fact.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:36:28 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "DT"
I doubt that her mother is going to refer to birth control pills as "her medication."  It could be any number of things realistically from allergies to who knows what.


my mom would and i'm 34.


I was thinking the same thing :D


thanx..maybe i'm not nuts...just banannas!!  :roll:


Shows what I know :\


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:37:32 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Rosalie on June 25, 2005, 12:37:51 AM
Quote from: "coco"
Absolut - re the other kids - lots of questions here too! The complete silence (I know they were told to be quiet, etc) is weird and I just don't trust the whole scene somehow though I can't figure out how it all fits together.



Im waiting for the movie. By then all those kids  (maybe) will have moved out from mom and dad and then we will find out what really went on on that trip. Unless National Enquierer buys all those security tapes and beats them to the punch.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 12:37:56 AM
Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "HannieC"
Red wrote:

Quote
If it ever goes to trial? Ahhh ... Aruba better hope it goes to trial. You don't have 5 people held on reasonable suspician charges, 3 of which were the last to ever see her and a missing teen.

If that ever occured they best close up shop because that will never fly in America. Right or wrong, that will never wash. We have Joran's mother on TV today whining that its a govt's conspircacy, she been watching too much American CNN. Her son has changed his story how many times and was last to be seen with girl.

Who really thinks he does not know what happened to Natalee, I mean really?


If they hav no evidence for instance ... that`s what I mean then they have to let them go it`s our law I can`t help it.

And as far as we think we know ho many times he changed his story all we think we know is from mediasources!


I have an open mind on this case, I have not seen any evidence what so ever so leaving a girl on the beach and lies does not make you a murderer.


Open mind is fine, but keep eyes open as well. One is not perpetually in the wrong place at the wrong time without reason,.

My point was more that Aruba best find who did this. Lets say it was accidental death hypothetically, a person just does not disappear. An unsolved disappearance will affect Aruba more than if this does turn out to be a suspected murder as the police said today.


Recall what one of the "experts" related on the Greta? show. There was one conviction of murder when a body wasn't part of the proof, and that was in The Netherlands...I believe she said there was such overwhelming evidence that the court/judge convicted the person.  

...and we have no idea what evidence there is, and we have no confession.  If this goes the distance, the 120/160 days left...

I guess your point is poor Aruba if they don't or if they have an unsolved murder.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Slayer714 on June 25, 2005, 12:38:41 AM
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Then Joran would probably have called the police like any normal person would have.  And he would have confessed by now also.


I'm so confused.  I think it was accidental but I cannot understand why he wouldn't confess...unless his father was able to convinced him the body will never be found.


He plays cards, and so far, my "impression" is he does it well.


As long as there's no body he has a good hand.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kipster on June 25, 2005, 12:40:08 AM
>>No, hmmmm... having her ID helps to leave the island.

Right WW, though I don't believe that theory (voluntarily at least), I talked myself out of US Im. in ATL with a sorry-ass copy of my birth certificate and a GA DL. It seriously took me an hour & almost missed my flight w/ my co-workers, but it was, at least then, possible. Note this was in 1990 and really had nothing to do w/ Aruban Authorities.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 12:40:36 AM
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I don't remember anything about Greta's reporting that another student did not return???????????


Not a student, another tourist,  He was on ths plane with MB students and stayed at the Holiday Inn, just like Natalee.

I wonder if he witnessed treachery...


I think the week of Natalee missing someone on the beach heard someone a man calling for help in the deep sea...another tourist say it and alerted the beach guard. .. boats were sent but noonewas found...later that week a death body was found...I will see if I can pull that article from diarioaruba.com


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:40:55 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


Right, but obviously his dad's status isn't very important given his arrest.  If he knew that she ran away he would just go out and say it to end the pain he is causing his family.  

I still don't get why he would help her initially after knowing her for only a few hours, doesn't really make sense.


Title: Re: Oh oh
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 12:41:28 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "HannieC"
And I think that a lot of people are too eager to put the blame on someone....!!

It feels so wrong ,but hey I have my own opinion just as you all do :wink:

I don`t believe in people tried with sensational mediahypes and judge and sentence out of courts..... by public opinions!

So I sure as ....  hope that the LE žn aruba do there jobs as the DUTCH law requires without the pressure from the US or anybody


I do not like a hurried judgement, and surely not the pressure from the grieving family.   I have to confess that in the very beginning I had Joran as prime suspect.  It start changing after no confession and somewhat longer interrogation.  I know the family says that there needs to add more pressure, and that gets me annoyed, as if your saying torture.  It lends some sympathy to Joran. However I cannot square of the part he says he walked home after the beach.  If I was in Jorans corner I d say...that at the beach no sex was engaged for reasons of a: noone brought safe protection, and or I do not think one does sex right on the beach.. if that is the case I d check Jorans clothes and Hamper at home for beach sand.  So no sex, a friendly walk on the beach, they part because a: Joran needs to go home to get ready for exams, and Nat is probably tired and goes to HI...however far ithat might be ....maybe Joran walks her to that point maybe not, Id have to know the nearest intersection from that Marriot beach to the first avail street that will got to Montana.


Even if Joran confessed at this point, anyone that understands law would say that his confession was under duress. I mean 100 hours of interrogation with no lawyer present? :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 12:42:09 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


I believe her Passport and the balance of her money was found. Not her ID.


hmmmm


I imagine she had her ID in her pocket in case she was carded.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 12:42:28 AM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Then Joran would probably have called the police like any normal person would have.  And he would have confessed by now also.


I'm so confused.  I think it was accidental but I cannot understand why he wouldn't confess...unless his father was able to convinced him the body will never be found.


He plays cards, and so far, my "impression" is he does it well.


so she accidentally disappeared?? into the water?? 1/2 truth maybe...[/quote

Nope, that wasn't my point.  I don't know what happened.  My read for the past on this board and what's been posted is that he was a card player and a good one, too.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: friend of monkeys on June 25, 2005, 12:42:33 AM
Quote from: "Slayer714"
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


Then Joran would probably have called the police like any normal person would have.  And he would have confessed by now also.


I'm so confused.  I think it was accidental but I cannot understand why he wouldn't confess...unless his father was able to convinced him the body will never be found.


He plays cards, and so far, my "impression" is he does it well.


As long as there's no body he has a good hand.[e./quote]

unfortunately in that statement there
seems little room for hope that she will be found ever, nevermind alive... depressing thoughts...so sad for her family


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 12:43:42 AM
(...T)he individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath."

I doubt that the source of these statements is a certified psychologist, but if he is repeating these types of statements to individuals in and around the investigation, it will likely come out and be proven or disproven in any potential trial.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 12:43:51 AM
Quote
But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


That is not comprehensible or possible.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Bingo on June 25, 2005, 12:45:33 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


There is NO WAY Natalee "ran away"...........NO WAY.

And, I will not be surprised to learn that this so called "Judge" is involved in far more sinister things than sitting behind a bench.

Time will tell.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:46:15 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


Right, but obviously his dad's status isn't very important given his arrest.  If he knew that she ran away he would just go out and say it to end the pain he is causing his family.  

I still don't get why he would help her initially after knowing her for only a few hours, doesn't really make sense.


Yeah, they'd really believe him now...

may not make sense, thats why its a theory..keep putting holes in it, that helps me.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: coco on June 25, 2005, 12:47:05 AM
too sleepy here to keep up tonight -

good typing with all of you and hope there's good news soon

...coco


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:47:48 AM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


I believe her Passport and the balance of her money was found. Not her ID.


hmmmm


I imagine she had her ID in her pocket in case she was carded.


of course.


Title: larry King tonight
Post by: hardin9744 on June 25, 2005, 12:47:54 AM
did anyone watch Larry King tonight? they showed a teenage boy w/dark hair saying "Natalee was asking if Joran was going to be at C&C's later".  who was that?  they never said anything else about him or had his name under his picture.  was it someone from MBHS or one of Joran's friends?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:48:53 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote
But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


That is not comprehensible or possible.


Thank you.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Interviews with the law community in Aruba tonight all say the are in shock over his arrest.  They all say he was a quiet, bright man who was
well respected.


Ted Bundy was a bright man too.[/quote]

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG WITH THE REPLY?
NANCY DREW'S POST STARTS HERE...

That's a gross overstatement...Bundy wasn't respected as a long time member of the legal community as a good man...quiet and soft spoken.  I'm not defending him...but, hate to see such nasty statements without knowing all the facts.[/quote]

Your logical thought process regarding criminal activity and cover up is flawed with compassion for the criminals themself.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 12:50:16 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Interviews with the law community in Aruba tonight all say the are in shock over his arrest.  They all say he was a quiet, bright man who was
well respected.


Ted Bundy was a bright man too.[/quote]

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG WITH THE REPLY?
NANCY DREW'S POST STARTS HERE...

That's a gross overstatement...Bundy wasn't respected as a long time member of the legal community as a good man...quiet and soft spoken.  I'm not defending him...but, hate to see such nasty statements without knowing all the facts.[/quote]

KACKYLACKY's post below
actually about Bundy.
Quote
During his high school years, Ted appeared to blossom into a more gregarious young man. His popularity increased significantly and he was considered to be "well dressed and exceptionally well mannered." Despite his emerging popularity, Ted seldom dated. His interests lay more in extra-curricular activities such as skiing and politics. In fact, Ted had a particular fascination with politics, an interest that would years later temporarily land him in the political arena.
Following high school, Ted attended college at the University of Puget Sound and the University of Washington....sending out applications to various law schools, while at the same time he became active in politics. He worked on a campaign to re-elect a Washington governor, a position that allowed Ted to form bonds with politically powerful people in the Republican Party. Ted also performed volunteer work at a crisis clinic on a work-study program..............

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/bundy/2.html?sect=1
so as an adult he was thought of as bright and charming. Oh the evil it hid.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 12:51:09 AM
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:51:46 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


Thank Razzy, will remember that.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 12:52:40 AM
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:53:00 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.



Maybe try forming your opinions after just a first glance.....


why DO people do that?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on June 25, 2005, 12:53:27 AM
Nikki.. you still on??


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Tila_Bean on June 25, 2005, 12:53:55 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


She has been posting for awhile with some insightful opinions.  You should stick around.  :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 12:54:08 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


No, not at all, she is just trying to stay pratical while the rest of us conjure up conspiracy theories.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 12:54:29 AM
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


She has been posting for awhile with some insightful opinions.  You should stick around.  :roll:


LOL just what I thought.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 12:54:31 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/       please  RazzyBerry go look at this update of pictures of Joran


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Bingo on June 25, 2005, 12:54:43 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


Right, but obviously his dad's status isn't very important given his arrest.  If he knew that she ran away he would just go out and say it to end the pain he is causing his family.  

I still don't get why he would help her initially after knowing her for only a few hours, doesn't really make sense.


Yeah, they'd really believe him now...

may not make sense, thats why its a theory..keep putting holes in it, that helps me.


Your "theory" is full of holes, and that's why the "Judge" sits in jail.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:55:29 AM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


No, not at all, she is just trying to stay pratical while the rest of us conjure up consiracy theorys.



LOL...I love it when someone pops in and makes me laugh out loud!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 12:56:01 AM
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:56:35 AM
Quote from: "Bingo"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


Right, but obviously his dad's status isn't very important given his arrest.  If he knew that she ran away he would just go out and say it to end the pain he is causing his family.  

I still don't get why he would help her initially after knowing her for only a few hours, doesn't really make sense.


Yeah, they'd really believe him now...

may not make sense, thats why its a theory..keep putting holes in it, that helps me.


Your "theory" is full of holes, and that's why the "Judge" sits in jail.



And Bingo's theory is......


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: deb73 on June 25, 2005, 12:56:46 AM
Just an FYI, about a week ago there was this blog of Joran's up, it has since been deleted, if anyone can translate good, this would be a good blog to investigate.

http://www.wawblog.aw/Joran/ps/JOURNAL/VIEWWEBSITE?foneblog=1118712519153


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 12:56:52 AM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


No, not at all, she is just trying to stay pratical while the rest of us conjure up conspiracy theories.


She certainly shouldn't be ignored or treated poorly and she has given some valuabe info to this board, but I really doubt that Natalee running away is a practical theory at this point.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 12:58:22 AM
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 12:58:58 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


No, not at all, she is just trying to stay pratical while the rest of us conjure up conspiracy theories.


She certainly shouldn't be ignored or treated poorly and she has given some valuabe info to this board, but I really doubt that Natalee running away is a practical theory at this point.



it's my "hopeful" theory....I still hope.....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 12:58:59 AM
Quote from: "coco"
KackyLacky - sorry, I'm sleepy and typing/reading slow -

on the talking to police issue - the one time my daughter did something that I knew she had done, I called the police and told her to get ready to answer questions (she had driven my car into the driveway before she had her license and hit the neighbor's car - the neighbor's said "don't get her into trouble, she didn't mean to do it" but my take was she did it, she deals with it - and she did.

But if the cops showed up in the middle of the night with 5 wildeyed guys including Jug, I'd be very hesitant for her or my son to answer questions until I knew what was going on.

And remember, Joran offered to talk according to Jug - PVDS and Deepak were told him not to.


I know...I keep thinkin' about that, too.  I keep thinking...he's...what?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 12:59:35 AM
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/       please  RazzyBerry go look at this update of pictures of Joran


I read that site tonight monkey, there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old.  Hes almost a physical freak of nature.  The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.  

There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological.  She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out" .  Right there he is shifting blame for his behavior on his mother trying to make her feel guilty.  That kind of behavior he might have learned from his father.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 12:59:37 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 01:01:11 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


No, not at all, she is just trying to stay pratical while the rest of us conjure up conspiracy theories.


She certainly shouldn't be ignored or treated poorly and she has given some valuabe info to this board, but I really doubt that Natalee running away is a practical theory at this point.



it's my "hopeful" theory....I still hope.....


We all do, and believe me Id much rather have your theory turn out to be true as opposed to most of the others on this board.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 01:01:19 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/       please  RazzyBerry go look at this update of pictures of Joran


I read that site tonight monkey, there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old.  Hes almost a physical freak of nature.  The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.  

There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological.  She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out" .  Right there he is shifting blame for his behavior on his mother trying to make her feel guilty.  That kind of behavior he might have learned from his father.


Well they have new  pictures of him pulling another guys nipple and the other guy doing the same thing to Joran and it shows him passed out


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:01:24 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DT on June 25, 2005, 01:02:14 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Michael22 on June 25, 2005, 01:03:29 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I don't remember anything about Greta's reporting that another student did not return???????????


Not a student, another tourist,  He was on ths plane with MB students and stayed at the Holiday Inn, just like Natalee.

I wonder if he witnessed treachery...


I think the week of Natalee missing someone on the beach heard someone a man calling for help in the deep sea...another tourist say it and alerted the beach guard. .. boats were sent but noonewas found...later that week a death body was found...I will see if I can pull that article from diarioaruba.com


Jeez I just thought of something..
what if..
what if whomever did whatever to Natalee
was a tourist.........
say their ( the kids, the father ) stories are 'real'
and their just stupid changing their stories slightly
cause the father was giving 'legal advice'
so a tourist that took advantage of the right place
the right time,
dressed as a 'fake' securty gaurd
at a hotel thats closed for renovation
oh god the guy could be long gone
went back home to where ever in the world.
ahh but then where's the chick
in the hotel..? (Mariott)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 01:03:55 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest.


That's exactly what I think it means...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:04:43 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


If her condition in the email is an indication, she was in no condition to run away.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: lee on June 25, 2005, 01:05:14 AM
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:05:15 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


If her condition in the email is an indication, she was in no condition to run away.


Or in the condition to make a very poor decision


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 01:05:34 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close

PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest.
Quote


But we have to remember that we do not know what he said to the police during his first questioning.  They have heard what he said to them then and what he said to Greta later, so he could have incriminated himself and neither Greta of any of us could know.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 25, 2005, 01:05:58 AM
Does anyone know if the beach with the fishermans hut is called the Marriott beach by the locals or does it have another name?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "bluebob"
I don't remember anything about Greta's reporting that another student did not return???????????


Not a student, another tourist,  He was on ths plane with MB students and stayed at the Holiday Inn, just like Natalee.

I wonder if he witnessed treachery...


I think the week of Natalee missing someone on the beach heard someone a man calling for help in the deep sea...another tourist say it and alerted the beach guard. .. boats were sent but noonewas found...later that week a death body was found...I will see if I can pull that article from diarioaruba.com


Jeez I just thought of something..
what if..
what if whomever did whatever to Natalee
was a tourist.........
say their ( the kids, the father ) stories are 'real'
and their just stupid changing their stories slightly
cause the father was giving 'legal advice'
so a tourist that took advantage of the right place
the right time,
dressed as a 'fake' securty gaurd
at a hotel thats closed for renovation
oh god the guy could be long gone
went back home to where ever in the world.
ahh but then where's the chick
in the hotel..? (Mariott)


It would take 2 different 1:1,000,000 or more, situations for this to play out at 3am.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:06:50 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/       please  RazzyBerry go look at this update of pictures of Joran


I read that site tonight monkey, there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old.  Hes almost a physical freak of nature.  The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.  

There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological.  She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out" .  Right there he is shifting blame for his behavior on his mother trying to make her feel guilty.  That kind of behavior he might have learned from his father.


I have never heard the mother say that.  Can you direct me to the link for the interview?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:06:55 AM
Quote from: "lee"
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........



Good point....he has a son, eh?....wonder if hes from other marriage?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:08:00 AM
Quote from: "lee"
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........


That was odd, i didn't think about that connection til you posted Thanks.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: klaasend on June 25, 2005, 01:08:25 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


No, not at all, she is just trying to stay pratical while the rest of us conjure up conspiracy theories.


She certainly shouldn't be ignored or treated poorly and she has given some valuabe info to this board, but I really doubt that Natalee running away is a practical theory at this point.



it's my "hopeful" theory....I still hope.....

Well here is my theory for what it's worth.  Natalee died, either by accident or intentionally at the hands of Joran (something bad happened). Joran called his friends and his dad.  Dad makes up the alibi and tells everyone to stick to it.  Dad disposes of the body (Joran doesn't even know where).  Not sure how involved the Kalpoe's or Steve Croes are other than the original lie about taking her back to the HI.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:08:50 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


If her condition in the email is an indication, she was in no condition to run away.


What email?  Are we now referring to the faux Depak email as a case reference?  Yikes, and double yikes.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:08:57 AM
Quote from: "melrose"
Does anyone know if the beach with the fishermans hut is called the Marriott beach by the locals or does it have another name?


Has the fishermans hut break in been confirmed?


Title: Case of the Missing 5 Kilos?
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 01:09:48 AM
http://diarioaruba.com/dialuna/noticia/news1.html

CASO CRUEL DI ASESINATO SABANA BASORA Curpa a wordo haya den Santana na Sabana basora

A cruel case of murder Sabana Basora, where a body was found in a cemetary at Sabana Basora
 
ORA NJESTAD-(AAN): Diasabra 7:30 di mainta un seŮora ta yama polis pa pidi asistencia.

Saturday 7:30 AM, a woman called police to ask for help.

E seŮora di inicial Y. C.H. naci na republica Dominicana di 29 aŮa biba na Sabano Basora parti Noord ta duna di conoce cu e la caba di yega su cas na Sabana Basora 7:30 di mainta y ta constata cu su porta di cas tabata habri, ora cu e la drenta e ta bin haya tur cos den e cas gebolter y tabata tin hopi sanger den e cas.

The woman of initials YCH, born in the Dominican Republic of 29 years, living in Sabana Basora, the Northern part, told that when she arrived home at Sabana Basora at 7:30 in the morning she found the door of the house was open, and when she entered she found everything in the house in shambles, and there was a lot of blood in the house

Central ta dirigi patruya na e sitio y en berdad ta confirma e storia di e seŮora y ta constata hopi sanger den e camber.

Central sent a patrol to the site and truly confirmed that the story of the woman is true, and there there was alot of blood in the room

Segun e seŮora ta bisa polis cu e ta haya falta di su pareha cu e ta biba cune cu ta M.R. Van G. naci 12 di Juni aŮa í73.

According the wife she told police that she was missing her spouse which she was living with, who is M.R.G born 12 June 1973

Aparentemente un pick-up shinishi ta ser busca ya cu esaki tampoco no ta wordo haya cu ta di M.R. van G.

Appearantly, a grey pick up is being searched for since this is also not found which belongs to M.R van G

Polis ta buska den becindario y ta bin constata e pick-up color shinishi A-48861 di M.R. van G banda di e Santana di Sabana Basora.

Police is looking in the neighborhood and found a grey pickup with license plate A-48861 of M.R Van G near the cemetary of Sabana Basora


Segun cu e investigacion tabata tumando lugar y tabata buscando M.R. Van G. a bin haya e curpa un tiki mas banda pariba den e Santana.

Whilst the investigation was taking place and searching for M.R van G, a body was found a bit north of the Cemetary

E curpa tabata duna evidencia di a haya un morto cruel y investigacion ta start y ta tuma e curpa den beslag.

The body shows evidence of a cruel murder, and investigation is starting and the body is being taken.

Recherche ta confirma cu a papia cu e seŮora Y.C.H. y ta scuche pero no ta detene y ainda ningun detencion no a cay den e caso aki y ta bao di investigacion.

Detectives are confirming that they are talking to the woman Y.C.H but nobody is being detained and no detention has been made in this case which is under investigation


My take:  The dude lives with his Santo Domingo Woman, the initials are Renne van H ( I forget its Hagenijn or something). Someone offed him really good, I think his head is missing.  It probably the fact that maybe he is supposed to pickup the Cocaine drop of a few days ago (my speculation), but he failed. (probably too much people looking for Nat, combing Aruba..)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:09:55 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


If her condition in the email is an indication, she was in no condition to run away.


What email?  Are we now referring to the faux Depak email as a case reference?  Yikes, and double yikes.


All I was saying Nancy is that you really can't believe both, that she ran away and that the emails are real.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:10:01 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


If her condition in the email is an indication, she was in no condition to run away.


What email?  Are we now referring to the faux Depak email as a case reference?  Yikes, and double yikes.


Please stop saying faux....

** i know i know other thread   :oops:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:10:11 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


murder is murder whether its one body or 30.  Youre trying to say that I compared ted bundys murder to Paulas Van Der Sloots involment which I did not, your comment suggested that nice law abiding respectable citizens dont commit crime and shouldt be falsely accused.  

1. Ted Bundy was well liked a highly intelligent and respected.
2.  The BTK killer was an active member of the community and his church.
3.  Aruban law has the right to detain someone based on suspicion alone for a certain amount of time.  
4.  You better believe the Aruban authorities have a good reason to hold Mr Van der Sloot and I can promise you they arent telling Fox news or calling your house to give you the low down on it either.  
5. There is something on those Hotel video tapes that paint a pretty dirty picture of the Vander Sloot men and you wont get that at blockbuster.

You need to open your eyes to see whats not being told here.  They know what happened, but they cant charge them till they find her.  Out of 1000 things they know, fox news has probably been told about 10 of them.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: monkey c on June 25, 2005, 01:10:33 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/       please  RazzyBerry go look at this update of pictures of Joran


I read that site tonight monkey, there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old.  Hes almost a physical freak of nature.  The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.  

There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as
pathological.  She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out" .  Right there he is shifting blame for his behavior on his mother trying to make her feel guilty.  That kind of behavior he might have learned from his father.


I have never heard the mother say that.  Can you direct me to the link for the interview?


Nancy Drew go look at the update on this site- at joran if you haven't already seen it - it was update at 8:05 tonight


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:11:15 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "lee"
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........



Good point....he has a son, eh?....wonder if hes from other marriage?


I would imagine so, since he is older than Natalee.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kipster on June 25, 2005, 01:11:25 AM
RazzyBerry:
>>there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old. Hes almost a physical freak of nature. The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.

Now that's freaking funny dude. :)

>>There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological. She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out".

The other one about (paraphrase) 'he's going to kick Natalee's butt when she comes out of hiding' struck me. Any innocent fool knows there's an overwhelming chance she's dead. If not, where's she 'hiding' dude?!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 01:11:47 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.


Ka ching....logic rears it's ugly head.   :wink: :lol:  :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Bingo on June 25, 2005, 01:12:24 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Bingo"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


Right, but obviously his dad's status isn't very important given his arrest.  If he knew that she ran away he would just go out and say it to end the pain he is causing his family.  

I still don't get why he would help her initially after knowing her for only a few hours, doesn't really make sense.


Yeah, they'd really believe him now...

may not make sense, thats why its a theory..keep putting holes in it, that helps me.


Your "theory" is full of holes, and that's why the "Judge" sits in jail.



And Bingo's theory is......


I have my theory, and it's not pretty as it invloves the "Judge", Joren, drugs.........

But, Natalee's family has the right person working for them, and this will SOON all come to light.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:12:49 AM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close

PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest.
Quote


But we have to remember that we do not know what he said to the police during his first questioning.  They have heard what he said to them then and what he said to Greta later, so he could have incriminated himself and neither Greta of any of us could know.


Also there seems to be a possibility they are using the arrest of the dad to put more pressure on the kid.  They said he was shocked today to hear his dad was arrested.

AND, they said it could be as simple as telling Joran to stay quiet..there is some conflict with that since he's an official member of the legal community...or, it could be that he said something they picked up via phone taps.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:13:39 AM
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest.


PVDS was arrested because his orignal interview with POLICE was not substantiated.  They couldnt verify his statements.  Greta knows nothing that was said in that police interview.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 01:15:02 AM
Quote
There is something on those Hotel video tapes that paint a pretty dirty picture of the Vander Sloot men and you wont get that at blockbuster


RazzyBerry,

I have not heard anything about videos of them.  Where did this come from?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:15:52 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/       please  RazzyBerry go look at this update of pictures of Joran


I read that site tonight monkey, there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old.  Hes almost a physical freak of nature.  The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.  

There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological.  She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out" .  Right there he is shifting blame for his behavior on his mother trying to make her feel guilty.  That kind of behavior he might have learned from his father.


I have never heard the mother say that.  Can you direct me to the link for the interview?


It was the Greta interview of the mother at the vander sloot house on Fox the other night.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:16:16 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest.


PVDS was arrested because his orignal interview with POLICE was not substantiated.  They couldnt verify his statements.  Greta knows nothing that was said in that police interview.


OK, Razzy, spit it out...I'll bite.  Do tell what they did say in the police interviews?  I'm all ears.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 25, 2005, 01:16:49 AM
Why good evening, nancy :)

Wanted you to know I second this:

Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest

I thought the exact same thing, and with the swirling rumors he's not cooperating (if true) just how far they'll really get with it.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:17:12 AM
Hotel Videos, The Van Der Sloot Men.

Do share.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:17:38 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.


Ka ching....logic rears it's ugly head.   :wink: :lol:  :lol:



logic?

i'll re-post for you:

the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Bingo on June 25, 2005, 01:17:51 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "lee"
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........



Good point....he has a son, eh?....wonder if hes from other marriage?


What the heck does this have to do with anything?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:18:21 AM
Quote from: "RB"
Why good evening, nancy :)

Wanted you to know I second this:

Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest

I thought the exact same thing, and with the swirling rumors he's not cooperating (if true) just how far they'll really get with it.


Hi, RB...

That wasn't my quote...I keep screwing up the "reply" so it may have looked like my post.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 25, 2005, 01:18:57 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "melrose"
Does anyone know if the beach with the fishermans hut is called the Marriott beach by the locals or does it have another name?


Has the fishermans hut break in been confirmed?


not that I have heard.  My reason for asking is going under the theory that you keep a story the truth up until you need to lie so you don't get tripped up.  If D & S did drop off Joran and Natalee at the Marriott Beach, did Natalee think it was at the Marriott Hotel whcih was close to the HI and not the beach that Greta showed this evening when the camera panned and she said "see the ring of lights thats the hotels in the distance".  So if Natalee stumbled when she got out of the car and brushed off Jorans help was part of the truth, was  she was angry/upset and thought she was close enough to walk to the HI by herself.  If she was impaired then maybe she heard them say Marriott Beach and said let me off here thinking she would walk to the HI.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: natfortplum on June 25, 2005, 01:19:56 AM
Quote from: "Kipster"
RazzyBerry:
>>there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old. Hes almost a physical freak of nature. The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.

Now that's freaking funny dude. :)

>>There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological. She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out".

The other one about (paraphrase) 'he's going to kick Natalee's butt when she comes out of hiding' struck me. Any innocent fool knows there's an overwhelming chance she's dead. If not, where's she 'hiding' dude?!


The quote was "kick her but IN FRONT OF HER MOTHER" very distasteful at the least.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Tila_Bean on June 25, 2005, 01:20:08 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "monkey c"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
thanks klacky lacky, ive studies many serial killers and murderers enough to know this Vander Sloot kid is exhibiting strong signs towards sociopathic behavior.


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/       please  RazzyBerry go look at this update of pictures of Joran


I read that site tonight monkey, there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old.  Hes almost a physical freak of nature.  The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.  

There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological.  She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out" .  Right there he is shifting blame for his behavior on his mother trying to make her feel guilty.  That kind of behavior he might have learned from his father.


I have never heard the mother say that.  Can you direct me to the link for the interview?


It was the Greta interview of the mother at the vander sloot house on Fox the other night.


Yes, I do remember momma VDS saying that when Greta was talking to the VDSs.  I found it interesting that she only made this comment after daddy VDS got up to answer the phone and was not in the room.  :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:21:32 AM
Quote from: "Bingo"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "lee"
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........



Good point....he has a son, eh?....wonder if hes from other marriage?


What the heck does this have to do with anything?


I just wondered, why are you being so well-mannered?
 :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: bobcats1996 on June 25, 2005, 01:21:47 AM
lee
you make a good point.  but remember Natalee is his step-daughter.  Even though he may have misgivings her mom really would have the final say.  I in no way am implying that she is not close to jug from what I have been told it is a tight nit family but I would think that Beth and David and Jug would have been helping her pay for this.  Do you really thinkg Jug's son told him everything that happened on his trip down there.  Some one questioned earlier if David would actually stay in Aruba or go back to the states.  I have a feeling that neither Beth nor David will leave the island until they have their daughter.  They may be divorced but this is their daughter and I am sure any differences they have or had are gone now.  This ordeal cant help but bring them together.  You have to feel for both Jug and Robin, Nat's stepparents.  I am sure they both love Natalee and it is good that they are their for Beth and David.  They know that Beth and David are the ones affected the most because Natalee is their daughter and first born.  Jug and Robin both I am sure are trying to help anyway they can, I like Jug's gung ho approach to searching, do i tdown there southern style.  So We need to back off of all four of them because they just want answers and will get them anyway they have to.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 01:22:07 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
KackyLacky---Your scenario just doesnt pan out. Paulus VD SLOOT is a TRAINED Lawyer he of all people know that an accidental death is NO-WAY a Prosecutorial Murder Charge. If anything he would have told his son Joran to immediately contact the Police. I just doont buy an accidential death cover-up. The Boy Joran would easily get out of any rap if that scenario had happened. There has to motive to prove Murder, and if there is no motive there is no murder.

GuyWdog

I agree 100%.  If you are innocent, your parent wouldn't suggest you "saying nothing" (although an attorney knowing you committed a crime might...hmmm?) when a parent is at your doorstep at 3am looking for their missing daughter.  I just can't image ANY reason for them to lie OR to say nothing, unless they were trying to cover their behinds about something.


as I said in a lower post, this goes thru my mind at times. That said, I am a child of a parent and grandparents of Norway, and I kind of understand how those parents think.

To this day, my Grandmother covers for her son, the alcoholic who everyone know steals from family by saying he is just trying to get ahead and needs help. I bet there are some here from Europe or from recent European descent who understand what their "family's name" means in the world.

I could see my grandfather covering for one of his kids, just because reputation is everything, I mean almost everything to them. It is hard to understand the degree that reputation means to us as Americans.

But, I agree, I wouldn't cover like this for my child, I am not in no way shape or form, rationalizing or excusing anything the VdS's may have done, please understand that!
KackyLacky
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:45 pm

OK I have not taken sides so to speak, but By God if this was my daughter I guess I would be considered a cowgirl, because I would leave no stone unturned. If this was my son, and I have one who is in Iraq as we speak, I would ORDER him to talk to the parents of a girl who came to my door in the middle of the night saying he was the last known person with her. I would MAKE him tell what he knew.......no if ands or buts, and if it incriminated him, then I would deal with that then.


The best way to RUIN a family's reputation is to be so concerned about it that you COVER for a child, when he's done something wrong.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:23:13 AM
Razzy, Dazzle...

Where are you?  You've tried to make it clear you're somehow "hooked up" and privy to things even Greta isn't getting.  So, I'll bite...do tell...I'm getting tired so hurry up.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Michael22 on June 25, 2005, 01:23:18 AM
Quote from: "melrose"
Does anyone know if the beach with the fishermans hut is called the Marriott beach by the locals or does it have another name?


Directions Follow the main road along the coast to the high rise hotels. Continue to the last hotel (Mariott). We are 1/4 mile from the hotel at the beach. Look out for the blue center with flags at the beach. (Fisherman's Huts).  
http://www.windsurfingholidays.net/school_details.php?SupplierID=4510

there was a rumor that at the same time
when they said "something bad happened" right around that time
they also said that she was burried at the 'fishermans huts'

damn now I'm thinkin they wouldn't have had to go far
not very far to drag a body
down the beach
and I would say there probably wouldn't be anyone around that spot
that late at night
especially with that 'last' hotel being closed
water is seriously shallow there
like ankle deep
http://www.beachhouse-aruba.com/
ariel photo


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:26:00 AM
Quote


Yes, I do remember momma VDS saying that when Greta was talking to the VDSs.  I found it interesting that she only made this comment after daddy VDS got up to answer the phone and was not in the room.  :shock:


Tila wasnt that comment "odd", I have a masters in psychology and human behavior and that comment reeks of emotional abuse.  That kid is a master manipulator, possibly learned from his father.  That poor lady is blinded to the truth of who her family really is.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kipster on June 25, 2005, 01:26:04 AM
RB:
>>Wanted you to know I second this: Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest

However, I responded to arubagirl last night about an "ex-polis commissioner" confirming this by phone to a FOX talking head. I heard the Aruban spokesman confirm it when asked TWICE tonight on FOX's "The Big Story" if Greta's interview (inconsistencies) brought PVDS into custody.

[edit]The answer was 'YES' both times.[/edit]


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: flutiegirl on June 25, 2005, 01:26:24 AM
im still catching up from today but with all the talk about jorans shirt, does anyone remember what he was wearing that nite? and has that outfit/shirt been accounted for? just a small piece but if he was wearing one of his two favorite shirts and now one is gone, that would be pretty interesting.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 01:26:45 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.


Ka ching....logic rears it's ugly head.   :wink: :lol:  :lol:



logic?

i'll re-post for you:

the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


Chill, ww. No need to repost. My computer is getting slow so by the time I post, you guys have already asked and answered twice.  Ka ching. Ka ching. I'll concede your point on non-debunk....and add to it by saying that per his admission to his mom, he was lying in the email on at least ONE point so why not another.... oh wait he stuck to the point about her being drunk didn't he....so he could be lying about that in the true version......Send me back to square one again... :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 01:28:44 AM
[
Bingo,,,tell us more,,,would love your thoughts.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:29:18 AM
Quote from: "flutiegirl"
im still catching up from today but with all the talk about jorans shirt, does anyone remember what he was wearing that nite? and has that outfit/shirt been accounted for? just a small piece but if he was wearing one of his two favorite shirts and now one is gone, that would be pretty interesting.


I swear I thought some of the MB'ers said they looked him on the web and it was the same outfit. VEry foggy and in the far corners of my minds.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 25, 2005, 01:29:21 AM
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "melrose"
Does anyone know if the beach with the fishermans hut is called the Marriott beach by the locals or does it have another name?


Directions Follow the main road along the coast to the high rise hotels. Continue to the last hotel (Mariott). We are 1/4 mile from the hotel at the beach. Look out for the blue center with flags at the beach. (Fisherman's Huts).  
http://www.windsurfingholidays.net/school_details.php?SupplierID=4510

there was a rumor that at the same time
when they said "something bad happened" right around that time
they also said that she was burried at the 'fishermans huts'

damn now I'm thinkin they wouldn't have had to go far
not very far to drag a body
down the beach
and I would say there probably wouldn't be anyone around that spot
that late at night

thanks for the link.  On greta tonight when she was tracing the  path they took she ended at Marriott Beach and the hotels look  A lot further away than a 1/4 mile.  Are the fishermans huts at Marriott Beach proper or maybe between the beach and the hotel?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:29:58 AM
Nancy:

please dont tell me you think Greta of Fox network news is sitting on those police interrogations.  Im not privy to any police knowledge, im using common sense.  I cant follow your thought process without going outside reality.  Let me give you a lesson on police evidence sharing here.

Local police - They know everything
Our FBI - Their kknowledge is about 90%, but since they kids were moved to the prison the FBI interrogators were not allowed to sit in any more meetings.
Greta of Fox - 10% - This lady knows nothing, which means you are basing your points on 10% of the evidence.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 01:31:46 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Nancy:

please dont tell me you think Greta of Fox network news is sitting on those police interrogations.  Im not privy to any police knowledge, im using common sense.  I cant follow your thought process without going outside reality.  Let me give you a lesson on police evidence sharing here.

Local police - They know everything
Our FBI - Their kknowledge is about 90%, but since they kids were moved to the prison the FBI interrogators were not allowed to sit in any more meetings.
Greta of Fox - 10% - This lady knows nothing, which means you are basing your points on 10% of the evidence.


But Razzy what of the hotel videos you speak of, what is on them and where is the link, or source.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: flutiegirl on June 25, 2005, 01:32:33 AM
I swear I thought some of the MB'ers said they looked him on the web and it was the same outfit. VEry foggy and in the far corners of my minds.[/quote]

yes i read that at the beginning but i thought it was in reference to two different pictures. i saw his tickle site the very first day and alot of the pictures of him were in those two shirts. also on a few of his friends tickle sites, pictures of them with joran , he is also wearing one of the two short sleeved blue white button downs. i dont know, probably grasping at straws anyways!!!


Title: Larry King tonight
Post by: hardin9744 on June 25, 2005, 01:32:38 AM
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 01:32:48 AM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im gathering that wonder woman is one to be ignored here, just from my first glance in reading.


No, not at all, she is just trying to stay pratical while the rest of us conjure up conspiracy theories.


DAG is one of us who's more uh...self-effacing?  I knew I shoulda paid more attention to English classes... :wink:

Personally, I skip every other WonderWoman post. LOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:32:59 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.


Ka ching....logic rears it's ugly head.   :wink: :lol:  :lol:



logic?

i'll re-post for you:

the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


Chill, ww. No need to repost. My computer is getting slow so by the time I post, you guys have already asked and answered twice.  Ka ching. Ka ching. I'll concede your point on non-debunk....and add to it by saying that per his admission to his mom, he was lying in the email on at least ONE point so why not another.... oh wait he stuck to the point about her being drunk didn't he....so he could be lying about that in the true version......Send me back to square one again... :lol:


Im chillin...I just didnt think you were with the whole

"Ka-Ching" thing.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Tila_Bean on June 25, 2005, 01:33:18 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote


Yes, I do remember momma VDS saying that when Greta was talking to the VDSs.  I found it interesting that she only made this comment after daddy VDS got up to answer the phone and was not in the room.  :shock:


Tila wasnt that comment "odd", I have a masters in psychology and human behavior and that comment reeks of emotional abuse.  That kid is a master manipulator, possibly learned from his father.  That poor lady is blinded to the truth of who her family really is.


Yes Razzy I did find that odd.  Joran made other statements as well to his mother such as the "kicking Natalee in the butt" thing that's just out there to me.  I also can't believe that mommy VDS made that statement about this case no longer being about Natalee.  I cringe everytime I see that footage of her interview. :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:33:24 AM
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "Kipster"
RazzyBerry:
>>there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old. Hes almost a physical freak of nature. The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.

Now that's freaking funny dude. :)

>>There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological. She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out".

The other one about (paraphrase) 'he's going to kick Natalee's butt when she comes out of hiding' struck me. Any innocent fool knows there's an overwhelming chance she's dead. If not, where's she 'hiding' dude?!


The quote was "kick her but IN FRONT OF HER MOTHER" very distasteful at the least.


I heard that comment but natalies mother wasnt there at that interview.  Only Greta was allowed in on that meeting because the lawyers said not to talk to Natalies family anymore.  The only meeting with natalies mother was the prior day and it wasnt allowed to be taped.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Lausa on June 25, 2005, 01:33:33 AM
Quote from: "absolut"

But Razzy what of the hotel videos you speak of, what is on them and where is the link, or source.
Yes, please post link.  Thanks.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 01:34:02 AM
Quote from: "Kipster"
RB:
>>Wanted you to know I second this: Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest

However, I responded to arubagirl last night about an "ex-polis commissioner" confirming this by phone to a FOX talking head. I heard the Aruban spokesman confirm it when asked TWICE tonight on FOX's "The Big Story" if Greta's interview (inconsistencies) brought PVDS into custody.

[edit]The answer was 'YES' both times.[/edit]


Gretta isnt privy to the police transcripts with Paulus. He probably told them something different than what he said on the interview. He should have listened to his own advice he gave Joran to keep quiet.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: deb73 on June 25, 2005, 01:34:15 AM
Any thoughts that the local police DO know the truth, but don't know what to do with it being that it could ruin the reputation of the island, their economy, a future judge? It seems alot of bits and pieces are not being followed up on, or I'm not catching them, ie. the underwear found, the duct tape, etc.? Just another thought  :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 01:34:46 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


That's why I read evey nancy_drew post...

Never read any Nancy Drew book, though.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: heavyheart on June 25, 2005, 01:34:50 AM
Think the island of Aruba would be willing to invest in a island-wide CCTV system at this point?  Something much like the country of England has.  Might have been useful a little over three weeks ago.


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:36:07 AM
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


Yes, and it is "quoted" in Deepak's e-mail

:see other thread:

:)


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Sobelle on June 25, 2005, 01:36:26 AM
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


I saw that and was wondering who he was too.  If I remember right the boy had an accent so I assumed it was a friend of Joran's.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: natfortplum on June 25, 2005, 01:36:32 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "Kipster"
RazzyBerry:
>>there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old. Hes almost a physical freak of nature. The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.

Now that's freaking funny dude. :)

>>There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological. She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out".

The other one about (paraphrase) 'he's going to kick Natalee's butt when she comes out of hiding' struck me. Any innocent fool knows there's an overwhelming chance she's dead. If not, where's she 'hiding' dude?!


The quote was "kick her but IN FRONT OF HER MOTHER" very distasteful at the least.


I heard that comment but natalies mother wasnt there at that interview.  Only Greta was allowed in on that meeting because the lawyers said not to talk to Natalies family anymore.  The only meeting with natalies mother was the prior day and it wasnt allowed to be taped.


Razz, he told classmates that he would kick Natalee's butt in front of her mother ( as in for her mother to see) Are we on the same page? :?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:36:33 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Nancy:

please dont tell me you think Greta of Fox network news is sitting on those police interrogations.  Im not privy to any police knowledge, im using common sense.  I cant follow your thought process without going outside reality.  Let me give you a lesson on police evidence sharing here.

Local police - They know everything
Our FBI - Their kknowledge is about 90%, but since they kids were moved to the prison the FBI interrogators were not allowed to sit in any more meetings.
Greta of Fox - 10% - This lady knows nothing, which means you are basing your points on 10% of the evidence.


But Razzy what of the hotel videos you speak of, what is on them and where is the link, or source.


There are no posted videos that have been shared with the public- as those would be evidence, this comes from listening to what is being said in the interviews.  There were comments on fox regarding implicating behavior of hotel videos, not only relating to Natalie but behavior issues of the parties involved in general.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Tila_Bean on June 25, 2005, 01:37:05 AM
Good night all.   :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 01:37:10 AM
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: klaasend on June 25, 2005, 01:37:16 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


Yes, and it is "quoted" in Deepak's e-mail

:see other thread:

:)

Seems as though Deepak has alot of friends............


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:37:23 AM
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.



But don't have a name or location.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Local police - They know everything


Seems to me that the local police don't know anything except how to try to force a confession out of someone. :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:38:38 AM
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "natfortplum"
Quote from: "Kipster"
RazzyBerry:
>>there were 2 pictures on another site I found a little alarming, the one where a belt is tied around someones neck and just the overall size of this guy at 17 years old. Hes almost a physical freak of nature. The hormones raging in a guy that size at his age is alot to handle.

Now that's freaking funny dude. :)

>>There was a comment made by his mother also that struck me as pathological. She said that she asked Joran why he was even out that night and he said " mom if you never would have gone to Holland then I would have never thought about going out".

The other one about (paraphrase) 'he's going to kick Natalee's butt when she comes out of hiding' struck me. Any innocent fool knows there's an overwhelming chance she's dead. If not, where's she 'hiding' dude?!


The quote was "kick her but IN FRONT OF HER MOTHER" very distasteful at the least.


I heard that comment but natalies mother wasnt there at that interview.  Only Greta was allowed in on that meeting because the lawyers said not to talk to Natalies family anymore.  The only meeting with natalies mother was the prior day and it wasnt allowed to be taped.


Razz, he told classmates that he would kick Natalee's butt in front of her mother ( as in for her mother to see) Are we on the same page? :?


Yes he said he would "kick natalies butt" but that is probably the least of all the incriminating statements as that just means, she should be ashamed for making her parents worry.  That statement is basically a smoke shield JVDS gave his own mother, and doesn't really mean hes a ass kicker.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Michael22 on June 25, 2005, 01:39:05 AM
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "melrose"
Does anyone know if the beach with the fishermans hut is called the Marriott beach by the locals or does it have another name?


Directions Follow the main road along the coast to the high rise hotels. Continue to the last hotel (Mariott). We are 1/4 mile from the hotel at the beach. Look out for the blue center with flags at the beach. (Fisherman's Huts).  
http://www.windsurfingholidays.net/school_details.php?SupplierID=4510

there was a rumor that at the same time
when they said "something bad happened" right around that time
they also said that she was burried at the 'fishermans huts'

damn now I'm thinkin they wouldn't have had to go far
not very far to drag a body
down the beach
and I would say there probably wouldn't be anyone around that spot
that late at night

thanks for the link.  On greta tonight when she was tracing the  path they took she ended at Marriott Beach and the hotels look  A lot further away than a 1/4 mile.  Are the fishermans huts at Marriott Beach proper or maybe between the beach and the hotel?

I think it's between
but thier quote was
"close to the fisherman's huts"


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Compananzi on June 25, 2005, 01:40:53 AM
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


The young man reported that Nat and Joran met days before CnC. There are some people that believe they just met that one day..but no it was more like days.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:41:53 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Nancy:

please dont tell me you think Greta of Fox network news is sitting on those police interrogations.  Im not privy to any police knowledge, im using common sense.  I cant follow your thought process without going outside reality.  Let me give you a lesson on police evidence sharing here.

Local police - They know everything
Our FBI - Their kknowledge is about 90%, but since they kids were moved to the prison the FBI interrogators were not allowed to sit in any more meetings.
Greta of Fox - 10% - This lady knows nothing, which means you are basing your points on 10% of the evidence.


But Razzy what of the hotel videos you speak of, what is on them and where is the link, or source.


There are no posted videos that have been shared with the public- as those would be evidence, this comes from listening to what is being said in the interviews.  There were comments on fox regarding implicating behavior of hotel videos, not only relating to Natalie but behavior issues of the parties involved in general.


So is that the 10% you were talking about?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 01:41:59 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 01:43:09 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.


Ka ching....logic rears it's ugly head.   :wink: :lol:  :lol:



logic?

i'll re-post for you:

the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


Chill, ww. No need to repost. My computer is getting slow so by the time I post, you guys have already asked and answered twice.  Ka ching. Ka ching. I'll concede your point on non-debunk....and add to it by saying that per his admission to his mom, he was lying in the email on at least ONE point so why not another.... oh wait he stuck to the point about her being drunk didn't he....so he could be lying about that in the true version......Send me back to square one again... :lol:


Im chillin...I just didnt think you were with the whole

"Ka-Ching" thing.


You're right. Sorry..Just trying to be Hip, I guess. (Is is still hip to use the word "hip"? The exchanges on here sometimes look like a tennis match or something.  point, counterpoint. I used the wink to show I was kidding, but I think we all forget that the written word can come across different than we might mean.


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 01:43:11 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


The young man reported that Nat and Joran met days before CnC. There are some people that believe they just met that one day..but no it was more like days.

What's bothering me now is that PVDS was at the HI casino that same night (as reported on FOX News tonight).


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:43:44 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.


Why lie then, and try to blame it on the hotel guards.  Innocent people dont concoct stories and alibis.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: melrose on June 25, 2005, 01:44:01 AM
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "melrose"
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "melrose"
Does anyone know if the beach with the fishermans hut is called the Marriott beach by the locals or does it have another name?


Directions Follow the main road along the coast to the high rise hotels. Continue to the last hotel (Mariott). We are 1/4 mile from the hotel at the beach. Look out for the blue center with flags at the beach. (Fisherman's Huts).  
http://www.windsurfingholidays.net/school_details.php?SupplierID=4510

there was a rumor that at the same time
when they said "something bad happened" right around that time
they also said that she was burried at the 'fishermans huts'

thanks - i need to watch the greta rerun and find a map - i might have got her location wrong

damn now I'm thinkin they wouldn't have had to go far
not very far to drag a body
down the beach
and I would say there probably wouldn't be anyone around that spot
that late at night

thanks for the link.  On greta tonight when she was tracing the  path they took she ended at Marriott Beach and the hotels look  A lot further away than a 1/4 mile.  Are the fishermans huts at Marriott Beach proper or maybe between the beach and the hotel?

I think it's between
but thier quote was
"close to the fisherman's huts"


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: hardin9744 on June 25, 2005, 01:44:27 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.



But don't have a name or location.


thanks, WW.  just wondering why they threw that in at LK and never said anything about it.


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: westcoastguy on June 25, 2005, 01:44:28 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


The young man reported that Nat and Joran met days before CnC. There are some people that believe they just met that one day..but no it was more like days.


Everyone keeps re-iterating that it's known that this happened, but hardin9744 was asking if anyone knew who this kid was???  WAS HE FROM MBHS???


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: klaasend on June 25, 2005, 01:44:48 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.


Why lie then, and try to blame it on the hotel guards.  Innocent people dont concoct stories and alibis.

Exactly!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 01:45:31 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


PVDS is being charged with making a different statement to Greta than he made to the police.

The funny thing about this case is that there is never any evidence. Were always back to square one... :roll:


Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest.


That's exactly what I think it means...


I thought so, too...or MISDIRECTION, or just BUGGED the HOUSE when they took evidence or took evidence on the pretext...these guys are under the gun to get someone...judge, Joran or jury to confess or tell them something (as far as we know...)...

Never seen an Aruban murder mystery, but I imagine that the folks at the precinct in Aruba are saying...praying...that they get someone to raise their hand and say, "excuse me, I did it.".

They get that, not much pressure to second guess a statement like that, IMO.[/b]


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:45:36 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


Yes, and it is "quoted" in Deepak's e-mail

:see other thread:

:)

Seems as though Deepak has alot of friends............


so does Natalee, I wish they could all just tell us what really happened.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 01:45:42 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.

So why lie?

Why the stonewalling when NH's parents show up desperately looking for their missing daughter?


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 01:46:00 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


The young man reported that Nat and Joran met days before CnC. There are some people that believe they just met that one day..but no it was more like days.

What's bothering me now is that PVDS was at the HI casino that same night (as reported on FOX News tonight).


I did not get his name either,,and at the time thought he was friend of Joran,,,

I like the idea thrown out earlier,,,makes sense,,,J took Nat to his apt...
what happened then


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:46:30 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Nancy:

please dont tell me you think Greta of Fox network news is sitting on those police interrogations.  Im not privy to any police knowledge, im using common sense.  I cant follow your thought process without going outside reality.  Let me give you a lesson on police evidence sharing here.

Local police - They know everything
Our FBI - Their kknowledge is about 90%, but since they kids were moved to the prison the FBI interrogators were not allowed to sit in any more meetings.
Greta of Fox - 10% - This lady knows nothing, which means you are basing your points on 10% of the evidence.


Since my FBI suit is at the cleaners...and the forensics lab in my hall bathroom is closed for the night....all I've got to work with is interviews, official statements and pure common sense.  

I'm fine with that...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 01:48:02 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.


Why lie then, and try to blame it on the hotel guards.  Innocent people dont concoct stories and alibis.


Remember they didn't finger the guards by name. They just said that Natalee made it back to the HI ok. They were obviously covering Jorans ass so he wasnt the last person to see her i.e. the main suspect in her disappearance.


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 01:48:22 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


Yes, and it is "quoted" in Deepak's e-mail

:see other thread:

:)

Seems as though Deepak has alot of friends............


so does Natalee, I wish they could all just tell us what really happened.

WW, Natalee is the missing one. I don't think the MBHS students know what happened any more than we do. OR are you implying that she's run away? Be straightforward about it, if that's the case.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:49:39 AM
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:49:49 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
I used the wink to show I was kidding, but I think we all forget that the written word can come across different than we might mean.


Very true, the internet will eventually evolve to have some sort of BODY language. It's already got an International Language started!


IMHO.....LOL


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 01:51:27 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.

So why lie?

Why the stonewalling when NH's parents show up desperately looking for their missing daughter?


From the Twittys own testimony Joran was willing to talk to them. It was his dad that kept telling him to be quit. Remember his dad is a lawyer. The first thing a lawyer will tell you to do in this situation is be quit. Paulus is in jail right now because he talked to Gretta.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:51:48 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.


Why lie then, and try to blame it on the hotel guards.  Innocent people dont concoct stories and alibis.


Remember they didn't finger the guards by name. They just said that Natalee made it back to the HI ok. They were obviously covering Jorans ass so he wasnt the last person to see her i.e. the main suspect in her disappearance.


Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:52:28 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"


Why lie then, and try to blame it on the hotel guards.  Innocent people dont concoct stories and alibis.



Lying to cover friend with no alibi for being last alone with mising girl.

Did see security guard type person (near Marriot/HI when dropped off), was trying to help, not get innocent people arrested.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: hardin9744 on June 25, 2005, 01:53:07 AM
on Greta tonight- where did that come from that PVDS was at HI casino w/Joran and all the MBHS kids?  which night did she mean?  could it have been earlier in the week?

not sure what this means- but it is another thing to add to the confusion, i.e, did PVDS see/meet Natalee too??


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:53:27 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Nancy:

please dont tell me you think Greta of Fox network news is sitting on those police interrogations.  Im not privy to any police knowledge, im using common sense.  I cant follow your thought process without going outside reality.  Let me give you a lesson on police evidence sharing here.

Local police - They know everything
Our FBI - Their kknowledge is about 90%, but since they kids were moved to the prison the FBI interrogators were not allowed to sit in any more meetings.
Greta of Fox - 10% - This lady knows nothing, which means you are basing your points on 10% of the evidence.


Since my FBI suit is at the cleaners...and the forensics lab in my hall bathroom is closed for the night....all I've got to work with is interviews, official statements and pure common sense.  

I'm fine with that...


Well following that logic then everyone should be set free because there is nobody, no confession and nobody told Fox news they did it.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:54:04 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kipster on June 25, 2005, 01:54:38 AM
>>Yes he said he would "kick natalies butt" but that is probably the least of all the incriminating statements as that just means, she should be ashamed for making her parents worry.

OK, it's late, specuLATE. Does this 'abuse the female victim in front of her mother' phrase pop up in any of Joran's favorite bands on tickle.com? I like to gamble, and I'm betting I could find it...


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 01:54:54 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
[

"BINGO" made a Very interesting post a little while ago..would love to delve further into,,,but they left...check it out ,,see what you think?


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:55:03 AM
Quote from: "westcoastguy"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


The young man reported that Nat and Joran met days before CnC. There are some people that believe they just met that one day..but no it was more like days.


Everyone keeps re-iterating that it's known that this happened, but hardin9744 was asking if anyone knew who this kid was???  WAS HE FROM MBHS???


If it's any consolation, one of her friends already stated that Joran was really quiet and Nat went up and introduced herself to him.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:55:04 AM
Quote from: "hardin9744"
on Greta tonight- where did that come from that PVDS was at HI casino w/Joran and all the MBHS kids?  which night did she mean?  could it have been earlier in the week?

not sure what this means- but it is another thing to add to the confusion, i.e, did PVDS see/meet Natalee too??


Theres something on those hotel videos.  Im telling you people, im not sure what it is but something on those videos is implicating the father. They are insuating that he was there based on the videos.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 01:55:19 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.

So why lie?

Why the stonewalling when NH's parents show up desperately looking for their missing daughter?


From the Twittys own testimony Joran was willing to talk to them. It was his dad that kept telling him to be quit. Remember his dad is a lawyer. The first thing a lawyer will tell you to do in this situation is be quit. Paulus is in jail right now because he talked to Gretta.


Maybe PVDS was afraid that Joran was about to tell all, in other words confess!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 01:56:41 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.

So why lie?

Why the stonewalling when NH's parents show up desperately looking for their missing daughter?


From the Twittys own testimony Joran was willing to talk to them. It was his dad that kept telling him to be quit. Remember his dad is a lawyer. The first thing a lawyer will tell you to do in this situation is be quit. Paulus is in jail right now because he talked to Gretta.

AFAIK, Deepak's not a lawyer and was telling Joran to keep his trap shut too. From the reports I've heard, it smacks me that Joran was acting like an immature 17 year old, who thinks he's untouchable because of his status (esp. his judge-in-training father).

If what we've heard is true -  i.e. bragging about having sex with Natalee at school the next day, telling his mom 'I'll kick her butt when she shows up' - it seems to me that he's acting how he thinks an innocent person might act. Personally, I don't think that's how an innocent person might act. I'd expect worry, concern, bewilderment, etc.

Just MHO.

BTW, we have heard that Joran was at school the next day. Do we know if Papa Smurf was at work on time?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:56:57 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.


Youre right they will walk.  Thats why they are letting Texas come in to search.  No one as given them any indication where the body is thats why their search is so widespread.  The only thing that will enable them to find Natalie is luck.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 01:57:05 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Ok, skipped over 5 pages of posts (not too shabby hehe). Hello everyone!

I've been stuck on a post by poster heartache on the previous RBN thread.

Assuming Sonny VDS called Daddy VDS after some accident/foul play...

If he called Daddy from the Marriott beach, there would have been a cell phone call from there, and Daddy would have been hauled in sooner.

The fact that this is improbable (due to Daddy only being detained today, thus no cell phone record of such a call) this would lead one to assume that it Sonny may have taken Natalee to his 'appartment'.

The implication of this is that the Kelpoes are lying about the Marriott beach dropoff, and that they dropped Joran and Natalee at the VDS residence (makes sense if you read Dutch Lady's theory, under Theory and Speculation).

The alternative is that Joran really did walk home, being a big ol' jerk and leaving Natalee passed out (but still alive) at the beach near the Marriott. Which leads me to ask, why lie, and not just a simple lie, but a lie orchestrated between himself and the Kalpoes? if they are completely innocent?

The latter alternative does not jive.

Thoughts? Comments?  Corrections in my late night logic?


Good logic on the cell phone theory. But what if Joran is telling the truth. He said that Natalee wanted to stay at the beach. From what weve heard her quoted before it was her last night in Aruba. This would be about 3:00 am? Plenty of time for someone else to kidnap her - hence the lack of real evidence in this case.


Why lie then, and try to blame it on the hotel guards.  Innocent people dont concoct stories and alibis.


Remember they didn't finger the guards by name. They just said that Natalee made it back to the HI ok. They were obviously covering Jorans ass so he wasnt the last person to see her i.e. the main suspect in her disappearance.


Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


But, Razzy Dazzle, it doesn't really matter how many times they changed their story...without evidence, a body or a confession, this case goes nowhere. Doncha think?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 01:58:05 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


Apparantly they had no evidence on the 2 security guards whatsoever and they were arrested for murder and kidnapping. Arresting Jorans dad is a very good sign that they dont have any evidence. Whatever those kids say now I would consider to be a statement under duress. Like torturing someone into a confession - it means nothing.


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 01:58:34 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.


Yes, and it is "quoted" in Deepak's e-mail

:see other thread:

:)

Seems as though Deepak has alot of friends............


so does Natalee, I wish they could all just tell us what really happened.

WW, Natalee is the missing one. I don't think the MBHS students know what happened any more than we do. OR are you implying that she's run away? Be straightforward about it, if that's the case.



Getagrip... What was not straightforward about my comment?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: AzRose on June 25, 2005, 01:58:37 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
on Greta tonight- where did that come from that PVDS was at HI casino w/Joran and all the MBHS kids?  which night did she mean?  could it have been earlier in the week?

not sure what this means- but it is another thing to add to the confusion, i.e, did PVDS see/meet Natalee too??


Theres something on those hotel videos.  Im telling you people, im not sure what it is but something on those videos is implicating the father. They are insuating that he was there based on the videos.


Are you refering to the HI Casino surveillance video's?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 01:58:40 AM
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 01:59:25 AM
Quote from: "lee"
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........


That's a pretty bold synopsis, IMO, lee.  I shall think about that one.  Seriously.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: PeeCee on June 25, 2005, 01:59:58 AM
Hi all. Been lurking for weeks, so decided to join.

About Natalee knowing Joran.

On  the O'Reilly Factor on Fox, he had on 2 kids from MBHS. A boy and a girl, both were on the trip. The boy, Edward Kissel said:

Natalee and Joran and some of natalee's better friends were hanging out together for the 2 or 3 days.

The girl, I didbn't catch her name said, Natalee is the reason she passed calculus.

Anyway, thought it interesting that Natalee and her better friends did seem to know Joran for longer than the last night.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:00:13 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


What makes you think he's a sociopath? We've had so many conflicting stories on his character, how can you tell?


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:01:31 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
so does Natalee, I wish they could all just tell us what really happened.

WW, Natalee is the missing one. I don't think the MBHS students know what happened any more than we do. OR are you implying that she's run away? Be straightforward about it, if that's the case.[/quote]


Getagrip... What was not straightforward about my comment?[/quote]
You didn't explicitly say that you thought the MBHS students know that she ran away.  That was the implied part. Hope that helped :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 02:01:35 AM
Maybe it's one of those deals where you acted like a jerk, left the drunk girl on the beach....now she's missing....Oh no...you're freaking out...you know you didn't do anything wrong..she'll turn up...just say you let her out at HI...you even say she was talking to a security guard so she must have been alright....Now she doesn't turn up...you've got to keep lying...they arrest a couple of security guards...she's still gone.... you start to think, maybe the security guard did have something to do with it....By then you're stuck in your lie....then you have to keep lying...you figure out quick that you can't lie anymore cause other folks are not lying anymore. Oh my ...you're in it up to your eyeballs now because of that first stupid lie....And you're finally figuring out that you've got to tell the truth. But now no one believes you now because of the first lie.......Mama always said if you tell one lie you're gonna have to tell three more to cover that one up....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:02:06 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "lee"
someone much earlier talked about "jug" , that he was kinda turning them off with his attitude..

I don't know about that, but I will admit I was a little judgemental to him tonite when he was on Hannity......he says...."have you been to C and C's?....then goes on to talk about how wild it was, how they smoke dope right there and how there were fights....he knows it was wild because his son went there last year and told him so....and now he has witnessed it....

okay, okay...you send you son on a wild trip and do you think maybe you  might think twice about sending your dtr?........


That was odd, i didn't think about that connection til you posted Thanks.


hey lee...i'm just catchin' up...but that makes two of us...(see my previous response)...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:02:08 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


Apparantly they had no evidence on the 2 security guards whatsoever and they were arrested for murder and kidnapping. Arresting Jorans dad is a very good sign that they dont have any evidence. Whatever those kids say now I would consider to be a statement under duress. Like torturing someone into a confession - it means nothing.


You dont understand the way the arubian system works and your terminology is from the arrest systems of the USA. No one has been charged for murder or kidnapping.  They can only be detained for suspicion under arubian law for 116 days without being formally charged.  You can hold someone for those 116 days if there is sufficient evidence, at certain time points 6 hours, 48 hours, etc etc, further evidence must be presented.  Arresting Jorans father means they have more than you think.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 25, 2005, 02:02:26 AM
2 thoughts I just had:

Could we be underestimating PVDS?  Wouldn't it be brilliant if he orchestrated a variety of timelines for for the 3 boys?  First the tell the HI drop off story...then the brothers and joran tell split stories.. then the marriot story....  

We must remember he is an expert on the Aruban legal system.. if anyone can beat the system he's the guy to do it...


this leads to the second thought:

by doing so all the police have is serious inconsistancy in stories... what they do not have is a body.  What if sharks devoured it? (very possible espically if she was bleeding)  Chances are it will never be found
.... so that leads to the brilliance of constantly changing alibis

..how can these people be tried and seriously be found guilty?  They cant.  It would be easier to find them guilty if they all stuck to one story and the prosecution was able to totally contradict it with evidence  (assuming no body is ever found)  ... I predict their stories will soon change once again

... too much confusion and a severe lack of concrete evidence (a body) to convict these people
... its almost the perfect crime


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 02:02:30 AM
Quote from: "PeeCee"
Hi all. Been lurking for weeks, so decided to join.

About Natalee knowing Joran.

On  the O'Reilly Factor on Fox, he had on 2 kids from MBHS. A boy and a girl, both were on the trip. The boy, Edward Kissel said:

Natalee and Joran and some of natalee's better friends were hanging out together for the 2 or 3 days.
The girl, I didbn't catch her name said, Natalee is the reason she passed calculus.

Anyway, thought it interesting that Natalee and her better friends did seem to know Joran for longer than the last night.


I thought they said that Joran had been "hanging around" where they where, not "hanging out" with them.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 02:02:30 AM
Nat's cousins,,,twins were on the trip...they played BJ with Joran..  Their last name is Twitty,,and are the sons of Jugs brother,,Marcia Twitty,,you may have seen her on tv from B'ham.  

The article is in the PEOPLE MAG


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:02:52 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:03:30 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 02:03:44 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:03:54 AM
Quote from: "PeeCee"
Hi all. Been lurking for weeks, so decided to join.

About Natalee knowing Joran.

On  the O'Reilly Factor on Fox, he had on 2 kids from MBHS. A boy and a girl, both were on the trip. The boy, Edward Kissel said:

Natalee and Joran and some of natalee's better friends were hanging out together for the 2 or 3 days.

The girl, I didbn't catch her name said, Natalee is the reason she passed calculus.

Anyway, thought it interesting that Natalee and her better friends did seem to know Joran for longer than the last night.

Welcome PeeCee :)

Yeah, there have been a few contradicting statements about when they met. I attribute it to Joran having been around the HI casino for a few days, and all the kids being all over the place. So, bottom line, I don't think we know for sure when NH and Joran actually met.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:04:05 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
on Greta tonight- where did that come from that PVDS was at HI casino w/Joran and all the MBHS kids?  which night did she mean?  could it have been earlier in the week?

not sure what this means- but it is another thing to add to the confusion, i.e, did PVDS see/meet Natalee too??


Theres something on those hotel videos.  Im telling you people, im not sure what it is but something on those videos is implicating the father. They are insuating that he was there based on the videos.


Ok I'll bite and add. What if the 3am a MCD rumor is not from the MBHS'ers seeing PVDS but actually from video.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 02:05:21 AM
Afterr party? or party in my apartment....another thought...

We have not idea what story they have told the LE>..maybe the "truth" and now they are looking for the body....

Did you see Beth Twitty today,,,or her dad?   I think things have changed


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:05:43 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


Apparantly they had no evidence on the 2 security guards whatsoever and they were arrested for murder and kidnapping. Arresting Jorans dad is a very good sign that they dont have any evidence. Whatever those kids say now I would consider to be a statement under duress. Like torturing someone into a confession - it means nothing.


You dont understand the way the arubian system works and your terminology is from the arrest systems of the USA. No one has been charged for murder or kidnapping.  They can only be detained for suspicion under arubian law for 116 days without being formally charged.  You can hold someone for those 116 days if there is sufficient evidence, at certain time points 6 hours, 48 hours, etc etc, further evidence must be presented.  Arresting Jorans father means they have more than you think.


Right, and theres gonna be a major break in this story in the next 24 hours. We've been hearing that for the last 3 weeks. Sorry but I think your LE is barking up the wrong tree.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 02:05:46 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
on Greta tonight- where did that come from that PVDS was at HI casino w/Joran and all the MBHS kids?  which night did she mean?  could it have been earlier in the week?

not sure what this means- but it is another thing to add to the confusion, i.e, did PVDS see/meet Natalee too??


Theres something on those hotel videos.  Im telling you people, im not sure what it is but something on those videos is implicating the father. They are insuating that he was there based on the videos.


Then why didn't they arrest him in the first place?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:06:10 AM
Razzy:

What role do you think the brothers and the DJ play in this?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


If her condition in the email is an indication, she was in no condition to run away.


What email?  Are we now referring to the faux Depak email as a case reference?  Yikes, and double yikes.


Please stop saying faux....

** i know i know other thread   :oops:

Oh WonderWoman...after this is all over, can't we just...share costumes?  I have a great wardrobe....trust me! :wink:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:06:53 AM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:07:27 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Maybe it's one of those deals where you acted like a jerk, left the drunk girl on the beach....now she's missing....Oh no...you're freaking out...you know you didn't do anything wrong..she'll turn up...just say you let her out at HI...you even say she was talking to a security guard so she must have been alright....Now she doesn't turn up...you've got to keep lying...they arrest a couple of security guards...she's still gone.... you start to think, maybe the security guard did have something to do with it....By then you're stuck in your lie....then you have to keep lying...you figure out quick that you can't lie anymore cause other folks are not lying anymore. Oh my ...you're in it up to your eyeballs now because of that first stupid lie....And you're finally figuring out that you've got to tell the truth. But now no one believes you now because of the first lie.......Mama always said if you tell one lie you're gonna have to tell three more to cover that one up....


Innocent people dont need 3 cover stories and alibis. Why not, I left her there, the end.  Trying to implicate innocent guards RED FLAG number 1.
Changing the story to dropped her off at marriott RED FLAG number 2. OK OK OK I was with her alone at the beach but I didnt touch her RED FLAG number 3.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: DAG on June 25, 2005, 02:07:43 AM
Good night all!!!

Sweet dreams and remember to pray for Natalee and her family.

See y'all tomorrow!!!!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:08:04 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
on Greta tonight- where did that come from that PVDS was at HI casino w/Joran and all the MBHS kids?  which night did she mean?  could it have been earlier in the week?

not sure what this means- but it is another thing to add to the confusion, i.e, did PVDS see/meet Natalee too??


Theres something on those hotel videos.  Im telling you people, im not sure what it is but something on those videos is implicating the father. They are insuating that he was there based on the videos.


Then why didn't they arrest him in the first place?


Logic rules! :D


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:08:06 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:

Pssst...Ima girl :P

The mishap happened at the appartment, in my estimation.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kipster on June 25, 2005, 02:08:38 AM
>>Ok I'll bite and add. What if the 3am a MCD rumor is not from the MBHS'ers seeing PVDS but actually from video.

My thoughts too. Who cares when MD closes? Surely they don't shut down the cams.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:09:21 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
There is absolutely no factual basis for a comparison between Paulas Van Der   Sloot and Ted Bundy!!!!

Yes, I have compassion, but I also but I also believe in fair justice.  The charges against him right now aren't even for murder...much less serial murder.

Not even close.


murder is murder whether its one body or 30.  Youre trying to say that I compared ted bundys murder to Paulas Van Der Sloots involment which I did not, your comment suggested that nice law abiding respectable citizens dont commit crime and shouldt be falsely accused.  

1. Ted Bundy was well liked a highly intelligent and respected.
2.  The BTK killer was an active member of the community and his church.
3.  Aruban law has the right to detain someone based on suspicion alone for a certain amount of time.  
4.  You better believe the Aruban authorities have a good reason to hold Mr Van der Sloot and I can promise you they arent telling Fox news or calling your house to give you the low down on it either.  
5. There is something on those Hotel video tapes that paint a pretty dirty picture of the Vander Sloot men and you wont get that at blockbuster.

You need to open your eyes to see whats not being told here.  They know what happened, but they cant charge them till they find her.  Out of 1000 things they know, fox news has probably been told about 10 of them.


Just savin' this one so I can find it...it's the "only one murder conviction in the history of Netherlandic law theory...yada yada...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:09:45 AM
Quote from: "Kipster"
>>Ok I'll bite and add. What if the 3am a MCD rumor is not from the MBHS'ers seeing PVDS but actually from video.

My thoughts too. Who cares when MD closes? Surely they don't shut down the cams.


They didn't get the MCD cams until PVDS is questioned and says he picked up JVDS at 11. Watched the whole night and there they were.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: westcoastguy on June 25, 2005, 02:09:53 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:


Would there be records if he used a pay phone?  Do we know he had his cell on him aside from the story from the brothers that he called or messaged them???  Can we believe this story from them??


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:10:03 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:

Pssst...Ima girl :P

The mishap happened at the appartment, in my estimation.


So they WALKED to his apartment?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:10:50 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Maybe it's one of those deals where you acted like a jerk, left the drunk girl on the beach....now she's missing....Oh no...you're freaking out...you know you didn't do anything wrong..she'll turn up...just say you let her out at HI...you even say she was talking to a security guard so she must have been alright....Now she doesn't turn up...you've got to keep lying...they arrest a couple of security guards...she's still gone.... you start to think, maybe the security guard did have something to do with it....By then you're stuck in your lie....then you have to keep lying...you figure out quick that you can't lie anymore cause other folks are not lying anymore. Oh my ...you're in it up to your eyeballs now because of that first stupid lie....And you're finally figuring out that you've got to tell the truth. But now no one believes you now because of the first lie.......Mama always said if you tell one lie you're gonna have to tell three more to cover that one up....


WoW, thanx thats what's in my head.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:11:08 AM
Quote from: "westcoastguy"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:


Would there be records if he used a pay phone?  Do we know he had his cell on him aside from the story from the brothers that he called or messaged them???  Can we believe this story from them??


The pay phones there use some wierd card. Not saying it didn't happen but just as traceable.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:11:16 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:

Pssst...Ima girl :P

The mishap happened at the appartment, in my estimation.


So they WALKED to his apartment?

No, Deepak and Satish dropped them off there, meaning that they've lied yet again.


Title: Re: Case of the Missing 5 Kilos?
Post by: LilOrphan on June 25, 2005, 02:11:31 AM
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote
http://diarioaruba.com/dialuna/noticia/news1.html

CASO CRUEL DI ASESINATO SABANA BASORA Curpa a wordo haya den Santana na Sabana basora

A cruel case of murder Sabana Basora, where a body was found in a cemetary at Sabana Basora
 

According the wife she told police that she was missing her spouse which she was living with, who is M.R.G born 12 June 1973



Thanks for posting that, Compananzi.  Any idea what the M stands for in M.R.G.  and would it be customary to leave the 'V' for 'van' part out of the initials?  Anyone know this guy's full name?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:11:59 AM
Quote from: "westcoastguy"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:


Would there be records if he used a pay phone?  Do we know he had his cell on him aside from the story from the brothers that he called or messaged them???  Can we believe this story from them??


Smart kid - hey I better use a pay phone, cuz the cops are gonna track my cell. Hi dad, I've got another cold one. Better bring the shovel...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: lee on June 25, 2005, 02:13:12 AM
so you're an arrogant little sh*t and think you own the world, so what would you prefer.....taking on the little American on a cold, damp, smelly, sandy beach OR bringing her back to your own bedroom, because you know Big Daddy allows you to do what ever you want to do.....


but, you give the little American a abit too much dope....she dies....thankfully, Big Daddy is around to help...

I wish we knew where the Pimps filmed their last porno flick, because maybe that's where Nat met her fate.......my worse thought is that he tried to film his little escapades...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:14:49 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What role do you think the brothers and the DJ play in this?


Nancy:

Regarding the 2 brothers, either they know very little ie:we dropped them off  or 1 or both were there when she was killed.  If neither of them had nothing to do with her murder, I seriously doubt they would help a buddy bury a girl or toss her out to sea just because they are friends.  And if they did, they wouldnt hold it in very long.  EX: joran calls his friends and say I killed her help me bury her - sorry I just dont think they will get in their honda with a shovel and start digging.  

Maybe one of the brothers also raped natalie thats why the brothers arent turning on Joran because one of them or both of them were in on it.  Which explains why the brothers are quiet they dont want to implicate each other.

or they were just told by Joran that "something bad happened" and he needed them to say the story about the guards.  When they were hauled in thats when they said they made the story up.  I think this is the most likely.  Joran hid the body and the father helped him get rid of it.

Not much is being said about this DJ so I really dont know what his involvement is.  He must have emailed or said something incriminating.  When you get rid of a body you dont call every tom dick and harry to help you but joran couldnt do it by himself.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:16:26 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


I think he hid her in some brush until the father could come out and help get rid of it the next day.  They didnt start searching for a couple days after she went missing.  I think she was land bound on the first day but now shes in the water.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:16:28 AM
Quote from: "Bingo"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Bingo"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Wasn't Natalee's passport, ID and money found in her room at the HI?



That's where the Ran away theory comes from.....


Um why would you run away and leave your clothes money etc.  And how could a girl who had run away stay hidden for so long on a small island like aruba, especially given that she doesn't know it very well.  And if she ran away then why did Joran et al lie?  Doesn't add up.


as not to cause suspicion that i ran away.
she had help from locals.
because he knew what she was planning.
and knew case would die down, as most missing persons do.


So let me get this straight, he meets her at a hotel casino that night.  ANd somewhere in this period he decides to help her runaway for whatever reason.  I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who would put their family through hell, who would sit in jail for 3 weeks being interogated 11 hrs a day, and risking his fathers reputation just to help a girl run away, especially not one he just met that day (or even two days ago).  

Also Natalee's face is extremely well known by now, if I was helping her hide and saw that 150000 reward she'd be on the first plane to aruba.


Helped her, not still helping her. Dad is in the system. Im so arrogant, I tell people my dads a judge, i throw my weight around, im 17 in a bar and casino. i know i can say i dropped her off and my friends will vouch.

But it is comprehensible that his Lawyer Father and He are pimping out American girls??? anything is possible....


Right, but obviously his dad's status isn't very important given his arrest.  If he knew that she ran away he would just go out and say it to end the pain he is causing his family.  

I still don't get why he would help her initially after knowing her for only a few hours, doesn't really make sense.


Yeah, they'd really believe him now...

may not make sense, thats why its a theory..keep putting holes in it, that helps me.


Your "theory" is full of holes, and that's why the "Judge" sits in jail.



And Bingo's theory is......


I have my theory, and it's not pretty as it invloves the "Judge", Joren, drugs.........

But, Natalee's family has the right person working for them, and this will SOON all come to light.


bingo...you very well may KNOW...my friend truly beieves that the Paulus VDS is: "up to his eyeballs" in this and I've much respect for that opinion.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 02:17:03 AM
Ya'll have fun. See you later. Got to go pick up my son from a gig. (He's NOT at a casino...he's 22 and wanted to drink a couple of beers tonight. Drinkee no drivee so I get to provide taxi service.    Might peek back in when I return. Try not to skewer each other too badly.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Remembering "Find Dru"
Post by: Dublin on June 25, 2005, 02:17:28 AM
I don't know if any of you were involved in the "Finding Dru" case where a girl up in Minnesota disappeared. But, it is ringing a bell with me, because that perp was also said to have visited McDonalds after murdering her. In fact, they had him on a video at McDonalds and the timetable put that soon after her abduction.  

So, what is it with these sociopaths and McD's?

Got to fill up and get a bite to eat after you rape and murder someone?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 02:17:33 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:

Pssst...Ima girl :P

The mishap happened at the appartment, in my estimation.


So they WALKED to his apartment?



Brothers took them to the apartment,,,not on the beach at all....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:18:10 AM
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
I would add that Deepaks emails do not support her running away either. You can not believe them and that she ran away.



 the dropping at HI part is the cover story...but other than that, he did not see her after the Marriot(supposedly).....nor did he ever talk to her like Joran did.

So, the e-mail neither debunks or supports my "hopeful" theory


If her condition in the email is an indication, she was in no condition to run away.


What email?  Are we now referring to the faux Depak email as a case reference?  Yikes, and double yikes.


Please stop saying faux....

** i know i know other thread   :oops:

Oh WonderWoman...after this is all over, can't we just...share costumes?  I have a great wardrobe....trust me! :wink:


Was this one of the posts you didn't ignore?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:19:01 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


He calls Daddy!


As the smart guy pointed out. Wouldnt the cell phone records have shown that early on? :roll:

Pssst...Ima girl :P

The mishap happened at the appartment, in my estimation.


So they WALKED to his apartment?

No, Deepak and Satish dropped them off there, meaning that they've lied yet again.


You think Natalee would go to this guys apartment when she's gotta catch a plane the next day?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:19:31 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.


let me correct you on the number of story changes.

We dropped her off at hotel inn and security guards walked up to her
changed to:
We dropped joran and her off at the marriott:
added:
I called Satish to pick me up and I left her at the marrott:
changed to
Nope it was Deepak that picked me up at the marriott:
changed to
I was with her at the beach alone.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:19:55 AM
Aha! That Bingo makes a lot of sense.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Michael22 on June 25, 2005, 02:20:08 AM
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
2 thoughts I just had:

Could we be underestimating PVDS?  Wouldn't it be brilliant if he orchestrated a variety of timelines for for the 3 boys?  First the tell the HI drop off story...then the brothers and joran tell split stories.. then the marriot story....  

We must remember he is an expert on the Aruban legal system.. if anyone can beat the system he's the guy to do it...


this leads to the second thought:

by doing so all the police have is serious inconsistancy in stories... what they do not have is a body.  What if sharks devoured it? (very possible espically if she was bleeding)  Chances are it will never be found
.... so that leads to the brilliance of constantly changing alibis

..how can these people be tried and seriously be found guilty?  They cant.  It would be easier to find them guilty if they all stuck to one story and the prosecution was able to totally contradict it with evidence  (assuming no body is ever found)  ... I predict their stories will soon change once again

... too much confusion and a severe lack of concrete evidence (a body) to convict these people
... its almost the perfect crime

so they know through the father that
the 'most' jail time they will ever have to do is
110 days
as long as they don't say anything
so they'll just keep giving the investagators the run-around


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:20:57 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Kipster"
RB:
>>Wanted you to know I second this: Gretta said tonight that she didn't hear VDS say anythin at all that she thought coud be incriminating, makes me wonder if they aren't just grasping at straws with the arrest

However, I responded to arubagirl last night about an "ex-polis commissioner" confirming this by phone to a FOX talking head. I heard the Aruban spokesman confirm it when asked TWICE tonight on FOX's "The Big Story" if Greta's interview (inconsistencies) brought PVDS into custody.

[edit]The answer was 'YES' both times.[/edit]


Gretta isnt privy to the police transcripts with Paulus. He probably told them something different than what he said on the interview. He should have listened to his own advice he gave Joran to keep quiet.


Spoken as a true inspector_general ...really


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:21:43 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
<snip> You think Natalee would go to this guys apartment when she's gotta catch a plane the next day?

Yes, if she was roofie'd or otherwise drugged or so drunk she didn't know any better (in order of likelihood).


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:22:04 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


I think he hid her in some brush until the father could come out and help get rid of it the next day.  They didnt start searching for a couple days after she went missing.  I think she was land bound on the first day but now shes in the water.


So you can dispose of a body in Aruba in broad daylight with no witnesses. And no forensic evidence is left in your car? :roll:


Title: Good Nite
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 02:22:16 AM
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:23:02 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
<snip> You think Natalee would go to this guys apartment when she's gotta catch a plane the next day?

Yes, if she was roofie'd or otherwise drugged or so drunk she didn't know any better (in order of likelihood).


Ok so what happens next? Where is Natalee to be found?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:23:42 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


Ok, so tell me then. He's on the beach alone with Natalee. No car. No shovel. How does he dispose of her body?


I think he hid her in some brush until the father could come out and help get rid of it the next day.  They didnt start searching for a couple days after she went missing.  I think she was land bound on the first day but now shes in the water.


So you can dispose of a body in Aruba in broad daylight with no witnesses. And no forensic evidence is left in your car? :roll:

\
I didnt say it was daylight when they went back and again you dont know what evidence was found in the cars.


Title: Re: Remembering "Find Dru"
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:25:47 AM
Quote from: "Dublin"
I don't know if any of you were involved in the "Finding Dru" case where a girl up in Minnesota disappeared. But, it is ringing a bell with me, because that perp was also said to have visited McDonalds after murdering her. In fact, they had him on a video at McDonalds and the timetable put that soon after her abduction.  

So, what is it with these sociopaths and McD's?

Got to fill up and get a bite to eat after you rape and murder someone?


I've read that serial killers usually eat right after.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:26:01 AM
Quote from: "deb73"
Any thoughts that the local police DO know the truth, but don't know what to do with it being that it could ruin the reputation of the island, their economy, a future judge? It seems alot of bits and pieces are not being followed up on, or I'm not catching them, ie. the underwear found, the duct tape, etc.? Just another thought  :)


umm, they're at a loss, at this juncture...and it's my guess, they're disciplined enough not to just impale someone for a conviction.  

Now, weeks more into this?  If it lasts that long...your thoughts become theirs.


Title: Re: Remembering "Find Dru"
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:26:30 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Dublin"
I don't know if any of you were involved in the "Finding Dru" case where a girl up in Minnesota disappeared. But, it is ringing a bell with me, because that perp was also said to have visited McDonalds after murdering her. In fact, they had him on a video at McDonalds and the timetable put that soon after her abduction.  

So, what is it with these sociopaths and McD's?

Got to fill up and get a bite to eat after you rape and murder someone?


I've read that serial killers usually eat right after.


Mcdonalds closed at 1am, it wasn't to eat.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:27:05 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.


let me correct you on the number of story changes.

We dropped her off at hotel inn and security guards walked up to her
changed to:
We dropped joran and her off at the marriott:
added:
I called Satish to pick me up and I left her at the marrott:
changed to
Nope it was Deepak that picked me up at the marriott:
changed to
I was with her at the beach alone.


You are mistaken....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kkial on June 25, 2005, 02:27:45 AM
Nite all,,,,,TC n cul


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:27:56 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
<snip> You think Natalee would go to this guys apartment when she's gotta catch a plane the next day?

Yes, if she was roofie'd or otherwise drugged or so drunk she didn't know any better (in order of likelihood).


Ok so what happens next? Where is Natalee to be found?

If the father was involved in the 'disappearance' (euphimism for who knows what happened), the body will be virtually impossible to find. He knows: no body + no confession + no evidence that is no circumstancial = no trial.

She may be weighted down somewhere in the Caribbean Sea, where the likelihood of finding it would be very remote. Or some other means of disposal, that I can't even fathom. I don't have a criminal mind, but PVDS has some familiarity with it, if he has prosecuted or judged, or read about any such cases.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:28:14 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.


let me correct you on the number of story changes.

We dropped her off at hotel inn and security guards walked up to her
changed to:
We dropped joran and her off at the marriott:
added:
I called Satish to pick me up and I left her at the marrott:
changed to
Nope it was Deepak that picked me up at the marriott:
changed to
I was with her at the beach alone.


You are mistaken....


yea youre right theres probably one more story change Im leaving out.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:29:20 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.


let me correct you on the number of story changes.

We dropped her off at hotel inn and security guards walked up to her
changed to:
We dropped joran and her off at the marriott:
added:
I called Satish to pick me up and I left her at the marrott:
changed to
Nope it was Deepak that picked me up at the marriott:
changed to
I was with her at the beach alone.


You are mistaken....

Care to correct her then?  Seems like the correct change of stories (as reported) to me.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:29:34 AM
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Kipster on June 25, 2005, 02:30:19 AM
>>okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.

Right on: to me this is the most significant (publically available) piece to date.  REPORTEDLY, JORAN HAS ADMITTED TO BEING THE LAST KNOWN PERSON TO SEE HER ALIVE--MAJOR! Sh*t, I thought the brothers did it until Greta deplaned. That's one male & one female romantically involved, probably UI, and we're to believe an evil demon just plucked her to hell off of that tourist beach?


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:30:31 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.



But don't have a name or location.


WonderWoman, I do...but I wanna wear your costume in exchange...it's non-negotiable, so please don't reply with a negatory or anything less than I want!  :wink:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:31:22 AM
More news in the case of the 3 boys in NJ, it has its own rumor/breaking news page so the 2 cases do not get confused.  

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=330


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:32:08 AM
Quote from: "Kipster"
>>okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.

Right on: to me this is the most significant (publically available) piece to date.  REPORTEDLY, JORAN HAS ADMITTED TO BEING THE LAST KNOWN PERSON TO SEE HER ALIVE--MAJOR! Sh*t, I thought the brothers did it until Greta deplaned. That's one male & one female romantically involved, probably UI, and we're to believe an evil demon just plucked her to hell off of that tourist beach?

Yes, to me the probability of that is highly unlikely (the plucked away from the beach by an evil demon part).


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:32:45 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:33:27 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.


let me correct you on the number of story changes.

We dropped her off at hotel inn and security guards walked up to her
changed to:
We dropped joran and her off at the marriott:
added:
I called Satish to pick me up and I left her at the marrott:
changed to
Nope it was Deepak that picked me up at the marriott:
changed to
I was with her at the beach alone.


You are mistaken....

Care to correct her then?  Seems like the correct change of stories (as reported) to me.


well if you are being reported to, then I guess you know the truth.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:34:27 AM
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:34:56 AM
Quote from: "Kipster"
>>okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.

Right on: to me this is the most significant (publically available) piece to date.  REPORTEDLY, JORAN HAS ADMITTED TO BEING THE LAST KNOWN PERSON TO SEE HER ALIVE--MAJOR! Sh*t, I thought the brothers did it until Greta deplaned. That's one male & one female romantically involved, probably UI, and we're to believe an evil demon just plucked her to hell off of that tourist beach?


By refering to yourself in 3rd person you are really blowing my theory that you ARE greta. :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:35:29 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.


They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.


let me correct you on the number of story changes.

We dropped her off at hotel inn and security guards walked up to her
changed to:
We dropped joran and her off at the marriott:
added:
I called Satish to pick me up and I left her at the marrott:
changed to
Nope it was Deepak that picked me up at the marriott:
changed to
I was with her at the beach alone.


You are mistaken....

Care to correct her then?  Seems like the correct change of stories (as reported) to me.


well if you are being reported to, then I guess you know the truth.

Ooh! Sarcasm from WW. Enlighten me as to how the reported chain of events are inaccurate. Really, I'm not being sarcastic.


Title: Re: Larry King tonight
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:36:02 AM
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "hardin9744"
2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.



But don't have a name or location.


WonderWoman, I do...but I wanna wear your costume in exchange...it's non-negotiable, so please don't reply with a negatory or anything less than I want!  :wink:


OH!  :wink:   :wink:


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 02:38:39 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.


I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:38:47 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:39:24 AM
Enough posts about the costume exchange. We have Chit Chat forum Use it.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 02:39:41 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.


nancy_drew only speaks what is known, now....and that is, absent other evidence, to quote: "if Daddy and Son stay quient..."

...reminding, that only one case has ever been convicted on a murder charge in the history of Netherlandic jurisprudence where there's NOT been a corpus, at the time of trial....learned that on FOX TV!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:41:19 AM
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.


nancy_drew only speaks what is known, now....and that is, absent other evidence, to quote: "if Daddy and Son stay quient..."

...reminding, that only one case has ever been convicted on a murder charge in the history of Netherlandic jurisprudence where there's NOT been a corpus, at the time of trial....learned that on FOX TV!


So that means without a body they can be charged.  I hope thats what it means.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 25, 2005, 02:43:32 AM
My theory (fairly vague)

Croes involvement is drug related.  The boys contact him say something along the lines of "hey theres this cute girl we met in the casino who we want for tongiht hook us up with ..."

I believe either all 3 or at least 2 of the boys were directly involved with the death.  If it was just JVS, when combined the brothers would have strong enough stories to be released, which isnt the case.  Either one of the brothers were involved and the other keeps quiet to save his brother, or both were in on it.

They leave the bar with Natalee... she is raped by not just JVS but at least one of the brothers as well.. if not then why would the brothers even bother if they werent getting anything out of it?

She goes unconscious at some point.. JVS and company panic throw her in the car and drive to the VS house to  find PVS for help (remember he is the legal expert.. they would go to him for advice before the police in a scenerio like this)
** also.. there is no way Joran was alone.. unless he walked home which some say is a longg walk...there is also no way PVS picked him up.. there would be a phone record and PVS would be arressted a lot sooner than a month into the case... only possible way Joran got home (other then walking) is the Kapoles..


They explain the story to PVS, he knows they would be found guilty so he takes measures to insure their innocence in the court.  Helps them dispose of the body so that it will never be found.  Councels them on what to be prepared for ( long interrogations, temporary imprisonment, etc.)  And then tells them that if they don't turn on each other and continue to give the police the run around (perhaps he even gave them a list of conflicting stories to tell after a set ammount of time) for the next 3 months or so.. then they will be freed by default.... if they cooperate with the police.. they won't be free for the next 20 years....


IMO


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:43:38 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.


They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.


nancy_drew only speaks what is known, now....and that is, absent other evidence, to quote: "if Daddy and Son stay quient..."

...reminding, that only one case has ever been convicted on a murder charge in the history of Netherlandic jurisprudence where there's NOT been a corpus, at the time of trial....learned that on FOX TV!


So that means without a body they can be charged.  I hope thats what it means.

Yes, with a body, even at this late stage, I'm pretty sure they can gain some forensics or maybe even break the suspects into confession.

In the end, that's all I really hope for...for Natalee to be found, to bring some kind of closure to her parents.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:44:23 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:46:25 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

LOL! You're saying that when a girl's tipsy or intoxicated she's 'in the mood'? I beg to differ.

He may have overpowered her with his size, but that wouldn't stop her from screaming...thus Razzy's theory of suffocation/strangulation.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:48:32 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...


And robert Chambers the Preppy Murder case of jennifer Levine was twice the size of his victim, but he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.  Your size reference bears no validity to him accidently killing her. It actually adds to the theory.  Hes 6'5


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:49:05 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

LOL! You're saying that when a girl's tipsy or intoxicated she's 'in the mood'? I beg to differ.

He may have overpowered her with his size, but that wouldn't stop her from screaming...thus Razzy's theory of suffocation/strangulation.


Then his father helped him to dispose of the body, right. Sorry I'm not buying that one.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:49:22 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


I agree...I've always said this was a simple crime. Hormones and someone without personal controls.

Are you optimistic about the Texas search team?  Is this key to finding her body...if it can be found?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:49:55 AM
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
My theory (fairly vague)

Croes involvement is drug related.  The boys contact him say something along the lines of "hey theres this cute girl we met in the casino who we want for tongiht hook us up with ..."

I believe either all 3 or at least 2 of the boys were directly involved with the death.  If it was just JVS, when combined the brothers would have strong enough stories to be released, which isnt the case.  Either one of the brothers were involved and the other keeps quiet to save his brother, or both where in on it.

They leave the bar with Natalee... she is raped by not just JVS but at least one of the brothers as well.. if not then why would the brothers even bother if they werent getting anything out of it?

She goes unconscious at some point.. JVS and company panic throw her in the car and drive to the VS house to  find PVS for help (remember he is the legal expert.. they would go to him for advice before the police in a scenerio like this)

They explain the story to him, he knows they would be found guilty so he takes measures to insure their innocence in the court.  Helps them dispose of the body so that it will never be found.  Councels them on what to be prepared for ( long interrogations, temporary imprisonment, etc.)  And then tells them that if they don't turn on each other and continue to give the police the run around (perhaps he even gave them a list of conflicting stories to tell after a set ammount of time) for the next 3 months or so.. then they will be freed by default.... if they cooperate with the police.. they won't be free for the next 20 years....


IMO

Steve, that's actually another possibility within the possible scenarios I posted above...that the brothers are actually implicated in raping her, and are pointing the finger at Joran to get a get-out-of-jail-free card. If they stay consistent with the story of dropping N & J off at the Marriott beach, not only do they NOT implicate themselves, but they also are putting a roadblock in the investigation, since it becomes difficult figuring out a scenario where they are not involved.

If they could all just tell the truth and face the music (if such is the case) *sigh*


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 02:51:08 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...


And robert Chambers the Preppy Murder case of jennifer Levine was twice the size of his victim, but he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.  Your size reference bears no validity to him accidently killing her. It actually adds to the theory.  Hes 6'5


So are we allowed to make bets in here? :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:52:10 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...


And robert Chambers the Preppy Murder case of jennifer Levine was twice the size of his victim, but he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.  Your size reference bears no validity to him accidently killing her. It actually adds to the theory.  Hes 6'5


So are we allowed to make bets in here? :lol:

All my money on Razzy! (oh wait,  I forgot about Nancy..she makes a lot of sense too).


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:53:14 AM
Razzy:

I don't understand your comments about Chambers?

he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 02:54:31 AM
The betting conversation would probably come across as crass and heartless to both the victim's friends and family as well as the suspects.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:54:40 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.

I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.


Where did you get that WW?  Never heard that change in the timeline? [/i]


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:55:38 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


I agree...I've always said this was a simple crime. Hormones and someone without personal controls.

Are you optimistic about the Texas search team?  Is this key to finding her body...if it can be found?


The texas search team are the best of the best, unfortunately, they dont know exactly where she is or their search would not be both in water and land.  This tells me theres been no indication from the parties in custody where she is.  Them finding her will be easier if shes buried somewhere on land, but I really think shes out in the water and thats like finding a needle in a haystack.  

Kind of reminds me of watching Fox news night after night while they were searching for Bin Laden a few years ago with no luck.  Glued to the screen every minute hoping some news of a finding.

If shes on land I give them over 50% chance of finding her if they didnt burn her.  Out in the water maybe 20%.  Its going to be luck because if shes weighted with anchors she will probably never surface.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 02:58:20 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


I agree...I've always said this was a simple crime. Hormones and someone without personal controls.

Are you optimistic about the Texas search team?  Is this key to finding her body...if it can be found?


The texas search team are the best of the best, unfortunately, they dont know exactly where she is or their search would not be both in water and land.  This tells me theres been no indication from the parties in custody where she is.  Them finding her will be easier if shes buried somewhere on land, but I really think shes out in the water and thats like finding a needle in a haystack.  

Kind of reminds me of watching Fox news night after night while they were searching for Bin Laden a few years ago with no luck.  Glued to the screen every minute hoping some news of a finding.

If shes on land I give them over 50% chance of finding her if they didnt burn her.  Out in the water maybe 20%.  Its going to be luck because if shes weighted with anchors she will probably never surface.

Wow Razzy...I think we're on the same wavelength (sadly)

Pretty much what I would have posted, if Nancy would've asked me the same question.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 02:59:12 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

I don't understand your comments about Chambers?

he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.


Jennifer levine was viciously murdered in the Central Park but Robert chambers kept claiming self defense because he had scratches on him, but thats just because jennifer was trying to get away.  THe jury in this trial was pretty close to being a hung jury because of his self defense claims that they prosecutor dropped the charge to involuntary manslaughter to get some sort of conviction and some sort of jail time.   But if you saw the picture of Jennifer she was far from defending herself.  She had a imprint of Robert Chambers watch mashed in her throat.

So my self defense comment was really just sarcastic.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 02:59:41 AM
Razzy:

Even with weights can't the sonar pick it up?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:00:00 AM
Getagrip:

Yea we are pretty much agreeing on everything here.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:00:28 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.

I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.


Where did you get that WW?  Never heard that change in the timeline? [/i]


He states in his e-mail that he left work around 10:30, he closed up shop pretty quick according to mom and him saying his regular shift is 4-11.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 03:01:15 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


I agree...I've always said this was a simple crime. Hormones and someone without personal controls.

Are you optimistic about the Texas search team?  Is this key to finding her body...if it can be found?


The texas search team are the best of the best, unfortunately, they dont know exactly where she is or their search would not be both in water and land.  This tells me theres been no indication from the parties in custody where she is.  Them finding her will be easier if shes buried somewhere on land, but I really think shes out in the water and thats like finding a needle in a haystack.  

Kind of reminds me of watching Fox news night after night while they were searching for Bin Laden a few years ago with no luck.  Glued to the screen every minute hoping some news of a finding.

If shes on land I give them over 50% chance of finding her if they didnt burn her.  Out in the water maybe 20%.  Its going to be luck because if shes weighted with anchors she will probably never surface.


And if she's still alive? :roll:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:01:27 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

Even with weights can't the sonar pick it up?


Yea but they have to know exactly where she is.  Theres alot of ocean and theres no telling how far out a boat went to dispose of her, and thats my assumption that they did.  I would suspect they went as far away as they could and I just dont think the Texas search team is going to go out as far as she is.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:01:32 AM
Robert  Chambers case (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/not_guilty/park/1.html) if anyone's interested.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 03:03:12 AM
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "Perforator"
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "Perforator"
yes why do you need a 'cover story' for leaving someone on the beach???
since when is that a crime?


Although unlikely, it could just be that the cover story was concocted after they learned she went missing and didn't want to get blamed.  More likely they are hiding something.

Didnt they say, the first night the Twittys were there, they dropped her off at the HI? At that point even the police didn't consider her missing.


I think, based on the fact that the parents were even there, that she was presumed missing.  It's probably a moot point anyway.  Like you suggest, they are probably concealing something more sinister.  From the supposed dipstick e-mail we know she fell asleep in the car.  It's not unlikely that she could have simply passed out on the beach and Jerkran, being the gentleman that he is, had his way with her a left her there.  That could have provided sufficient motive to lie.


According to everything we can surmise, they made up this story BEFORE she was officially missing.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:03:15 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.

I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.


Where did you get that WW?  Never heard that change in the timeline? [/i]


He states in his e-mail that he left work around 10:30, he closed up shop pretty quick according to mom and him saying his regular shift is 4-11.


With all due respect it's best not to make references to an email's timeline  thats validity is uncertain. It's just not kosher.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:03:57 AM
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:04:03 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
He states in his e-mail that he left work around 10:30, he closed up shop pretty quick according to mom and him saying his regular shift is 4-11.

Hope you dont' think I'm nitpicking, WW, but the faux  email (http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223&start=0) says Deepak left work at 10 pm.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:05:15 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Robert  Chambers case (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/not_guilty/park/1.html) if anyone's interested.


I know the case, but didn't understand what Razzy was saying about it.

I've thought all along it's the most similar case.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:05:43 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.

I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.


Where did you get that WW?  Never heard that change in the timeline? [/i]


He states in his e-mail that he left work around 10:30, he closed up shop pretty quick according to mom and him saying his regular shift is 4-11.


With all due respect it's best not to make references to an email's timeline  thats validity is uncertain. It's just not kosher.


With all due respect, it is VALID to me, since I know where i got it from.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: ScubaSteve on June 25, 2005, 03:05:48 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

I don't understand your comments about Chambers?

he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.


Jennifer levine was viciously murdered in the Central Park but Robert chambers kept claiming self defense because he had scratches on him, but thats just because jennifer was trying to get away.  THe jury in this trial was pretty close to being a hung jury because of his self defense claims that they prosecutor dropped the charge to involuntary manslaughter to get some sort of conviction and some sort of jail time.   But if you saw the picture of Jennifer she was far from defending herself.  She had a imprint of Robert Chambers watch mashed in her throat.

So my self defense comment was really just sarcastic.



Not to go off topic.. but I thought Chambers alleged throughout that Levine died as a result of rough sex


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: hithere on June 25, 2005, 03:06:35 AM
Quote from: "absolut"

Ok I'll bite and add. What if the 3am a MCD rumor is not from the MBHS'ers seeing PVDS but actually from video.


what rumor was this about?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 03:06:55 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Joran Van Der Sloot is a sociopath, he could walk away from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince everybody he had nothing to do with it.


What makes you think he's a sociopath? We've had so many conflicting stories on his character, how can you tell?


well, nancy_drew...I hadn't heard that one...walkin' away "from a burning building with a gas can in his hand and convince (sic) everybody he had nothing to do with it...

now nancy_drew...stickler though you be, you have to at least give the RazzyBerry a personality disorder possiblity maybe even a bona fide MHD ICD-9-CM number...heckers, eating disorders have one of those, no?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:06:58 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


you just did, with your sarcasm


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 03:08:09 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


you just did, with your sarcasm


OMG...I wanna be involved in that...


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:09:09 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
He states in his e-mail that he left work around 10:30, he closed up shop pretty quick according to mom and him saying his regular shift is 4-11.

Hope you dont' think I'm nitpicking, WW, but the faux  email (http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223&start=0) says Deepak left work at 10 pm.



You know your nitpicking, and i did say around 10:30, didnt feel the need to go back and look, since it gets slammed by you sleuths anyway.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:10:18 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "kkial"
can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.


Croes probably just sold them some X


Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.

I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.


Where did you get that WW?  Never heard that change in the timeline? [/i]


He states in his e-mail that he left work around 10:30, he closed up shop pretty quick according to mom and him saying his regular shift is 4-11.


With all due respect it's best not to make references to an email's timeline  thats validity is uncertain. It's just not kosher.


With all due respect, it is VALID to me, since I know where i got it from.


Well, next time you talk to the one you got it from, ask for an IP address.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:10:26 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


you just did, with your sarcasm

You may have to look up the definition of sarcasm :)

Just wanted to tell you, Razzy, you offer some pretty good insights. I, for one, am very interested in what you have to say (maybe because I tend to think along the same lines..heh).

I'm hoping for a small miracle in that the Texas team finds her. That would be the best possible conclusion.

I would've sent this by PM to you Razzy, but the PM feature seems to be disabled  :?


Title: Re: Remembering "Find Dru"
Post by: Michael22 on June 25, 2005, 03:10:33 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Dublin"
I don't know if any of you were involved in the "Finding Dru" case where a girl up in Minnesota disappeared. But, it is ringing a bell with me, because that perp was also said to have visited McDonalds after murdering her. In fact, they had him on a video at McDonalds and the timetable put that soon after her abduction.  

So, what is it with these sociopaths and McD's?

Got to fill up and get a bite to eat after you rape and murder someone?


I've read that serial killers usually eat right after.


oh you mean like Jeffery Dahmer..?
ehh yikes


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 03:11:12 AM
Quote from: "hithere"
Quote from: "absolut"

Ok I'll bite and add. What if the 3am a MCD rumor is not from the MBHS'ers seeing PVDS but actually from video.


what rumor was this about?


There was a rumor after they got back to the states and saw what PVDS looked like that they had seen him at MCd's at 3am. This was all discounted by MCD's closes at 1am.

Possibly the rumor had the wrong sighting it wasn't people that saw him, it was cameras.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:11:15 AM
Quote from: "ScubaSteve"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

I don't understand your comments about Chambers?

he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.


Jennifer levine was viciously murdered in the Central Park but Robert chambers kept claiming self defense because he had scratches on him, but thats just because jennifer was trying to get away.  THe jury in this trial was pretty close to being a hung jury because of his self defense claims that they prosecutor dropped the charge to involuntary manslaughter to get some sort of conviction and some sort of jail time.   But if you saw the picture of Jennifer she was far from defending herself.  She had a imprint of Robert Chambers watch mashed in her throat.

So my self defense comment was really just sarcastic.



Not to go off topic.. but I thought Chambers alleged throughout that Levine died as a result of rough sex


The damage to her body was not consistent with "accidental rough sex" it was consistent with a brutal rape.


Title: Re: Remembering "Find Dru"
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:11:47 AM
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Dublin"
I don't know if any of you were involved in the "Finding Dru" case where a girl up in Minnesota disappeared. But, it is ringing a bell with me, because that perp was also said to have visited McDonalds after murdering her. In fact, they had him on a video at McDonalds and the timetable put that soon after her abduction.  

So, what is it with these sociopaths and McD's?

Got to fill up and get a bite to eat after you rape and murder someone?


I've read that serial killers usually eat right after.


oh you mean like Jeffery Dahmer..?
ehh yikes


Too funny!  No, not him!


Title: Re: Remembering "Find Dru"
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:12:32 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Dublin"
I don't know if any of you were involved in the "Finding Dru" case where a girl up in Minnesota disappeared. But, it is ringing a bell with me, because that perp was also said to have visited McDonalds after murdering her. In fact, they had him on a video at McDonalds and the timetable put that soon after her abduction.  

So, what is it with these sociopaths and McD's?

Got to fill up and get a bite to eat after you rape and murder someone?


I've read that serial killers usually eat right after.


oh you mean like Jeffery Dahmer..?
ehh yikes


Too funny!  No, not him!

 :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 03:13:03 AM
Be Right Back...going to test whether I can walk three miles in the time that Joran said he did from the Marriott beach to his house....don't want to leave anthing up to speculation.

note: edit...Marriott has 2 "r"s


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:13:47 AM
Razzy:

Back to your comments about the video and Dad/Kid?  I don't get this...what could they have possibly seen on the video?  Do you think the dad is in that deep?  I suspect he's in on the cover up...but, that early in the evening?  I don't get it?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:13:56 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


you just did, with your sarcasm

You may have to look up the definition of sarcasm :)

Just wanted to tell you, Razzy, you offer some pretty good insights. I, for one, am very interested in what you have to say (maybe because I tend to think along the same lines..heh).

I'm hoping for a small miracle in that the Texas team finds her. That would be the best possible conclusion.

I would've sent this by PM to you Razzy, but the PM feature seems to be disabled  :?


getagrip, i sent you a test pm because My pms' werent off, im not sure if they are working though.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: goon squad on June 25, 2005, 03:14:07 AM
1) I could imagine that Natalee was prescribed for some medication that, if it was made public, would be a distraction for the investigation - such as birth control, anti-depressants (good grief, look at how many people have brought up "Freebird").

2) As for the "anorexia" theories - Natalee is listed at 5'4", 110 lbs, which translates to a Body Mass Index of 18.9.  A BMI between 18.5 and 24.9 indicates "normal weight."

http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm

3) <<And remember, Joran offered to talk according to Jug - PVDS and Deepak were told him not to.>>

If you believe that a cover-up occurred, particularly if you believe PVDS orchestrated it, then it's not very hard to imagine PVDS orchestrating this scene.  "Joran, make it seem like you're willing to help before we shut you down and keep you from talking."

4) Questions for Aruban legal eagles:  Interrogator lies to detainee about material fact - i.e., pending discovery of body - for the purpose of encouraging a confession.  Is a confession arising from such deceit admissible in court?  Can a confession obtained prior to securing other evidence lead to a reduced sentence? (not a plea bargain per se, but a factor that a judge could consider in sentencing).


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:14:56 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Well, next time you talk to the one you got it from, ask for an IP address.


Nancy, if its an IP address you are looking for to prove its validity, you will not get it.

Again, take it for what it's worth, pass over me please, if you don't believe it's real.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:16:28 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


you just did, with your sarcasm

You may have to look up the definition of sarcasm :)

Just wanted to tell you, Razzy, you offer some pretty good insights. I, for one, am very interested in what you have to say (maybe because I tend to think along the same lines..heh).

I'm hoping for a small miracle in that the Texas team finds her. That would be the best possible conclusion.

I would've sent this by PM to you Razzy, but the PM feature seems to be disabled  :?


Yes get a grip,

She really meant that we should go play clue.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: gargriff49 on June 25, 2005, 03:16:47 AM
Quote from: "heartache"
Well what if she voluntarily took x? And then died? During consensual sex? What then?


My thoughts exactly on a highly possible senerio.
Then of course absolute panic set in.
What better location would there be for a young 18 yr. old to experiment
with a drug. A new found friend that could get it and out of the seeing eyes of
the friends from home. Now, did the young VDS run to dad for help and advice? Did dad decide that it would be highly unlikely he could get a lawyer
to convince a judge that the drugs and possibly semen in the body were all
totally voluntary and consensual since the possibility of this girls parents arriving on the island to contridict any voluntary actions. Nows when the crime actually takes place for the VDS's. Making this young girl disappear.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:17:11 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Well, next time you talk to the one you got it from, ask for an IP address.


Nancy, if its an IP address you are looking for to prove its validity, you will not get it.

Again, take it for what it's worth, pass over me please, if you don't believe it's real.


You have your own thread for your emails.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:17:38 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"


I would've sent this by PM to you Razzy, but the PM feature seems to be disabled  :?


PM is working.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:17:56 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

Back to your comments about the video and Dad/Kid?  I don't get this...what could they have possibly seen on the video?  Do you think the dad is in that deep?  I suspect he's in on the cover up...but, that early in the evening?  I don't get it?


My feeling about the Video doesnt really make me think it shows the father going up to Natalie and having some sort of conversation.  The video comments make m believe there is something on them that lead investigators to think Mr VDS is more of a dirtbag than people know.  Remember, they have more than just one day of video, they probably have alot.  My thoughts make me believe its more character based differences and that hes not the decent person everybody thinks he is. Maybe something on them implicates him cheating on his wife and hes afraid thats going to come out.

Im just going by what they are saying and Im taking it a step further logically.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Michael22 on June 25, 2005, 03:20:16 AM
Quote from: "Whitney"
Be Right Back...going to test whether I can walk three miles in the time that Joran said he did from the Marriott beach to his house....don't want to leave anthing up to speculation.

note: edit...Marriott has 2 "r"s

ok don't get abducted
cause right now it's 3am
 :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:20:37 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Yes get a grip,

She really meant that we should go play clue.


You sound so...bitter. No soup for YOU!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:21:16 AM
Razzy:

So if the body is out at sea...the chance of finding forensic evidence is slim, right?  I don't think it's easy to find DNA on the beach?  So unless a body is found a confession is the only way for a conviction.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 03:21:57 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: inspector_detector on June 25, 2005, 03:22:28 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


My point was that you should investigate with and open mind. You seem to have your mind made up about exactly what happened, and are looking for evidence to support your theories. May I suggest you're putting the cart before the horse. You should be finding the evidence first and form a theory from there. What happens when you are so sure, is that things get made up - like Dan Rather's Bush memos for example.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:22:48 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Well, next time you talk to the one you got it from, ask for an IP address.


Nancy, if its an IP address you are looking for to prove its validity, you will not get it.

Again, take it for what it's worth, pass over me please, if you don't believe it's real.


You have your own thread for your emails.


Nancy, please stop. I certainly am able to reference my e-mail as you are to reference FOX, etc.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:25:24 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Yes get a grip,

She really meant that we should go play clue.


You sound so...bitter. No soup for YOU!



definition of bitter please.....

I believe its annoyed that your looking for

** PM is working


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:26:03 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.

I'm leaning towards the date-rape drug scenario myself, which would support the 'premeditated murder' suspicion.

If a date rape drug were used, there would have to be a reasonable indication that using it on a 110 lb girl who had been drinking, could have resulted in death.

I agree that using a date-rape drug is an indication of sociopathic behavior.


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:27:01 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Well, next time you talk to the one you got it from, ask for an IP address.


Nancy, if its an IP address you are looking for to prove its validity, you will not get it.

Again, take it for what it's worth, pass over me please, if you don't believe it's real.


You have your own thread for your emails.


Nancy, please stop. I certainly am able to reference my e-mail as you are to reference FOX, etc.


Sorry, I can't take your word on its validity. Obviously, this email means a great deal to you.  Hate to break your bubble, but whether it's real or not...you're probably one of dozens who have it.  As I said before I will not reference a document that's author is unknown.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:27:42 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

So if the body is out at sea...the chance of finding forensic evidence is slim, right?  I don't think it's easy to find DNA on the beach?  So unless a body is found a confession is the only way for a conviction.


I would think even if shes found in water, the fact that he was last seen with her and hopefully some other evidence they have that we dont know about will implicate someone they are holding without any DNA.  Right now they are all being held withtout a body so if they find one, I believe their circumstantial evidence would be enough to charge someone.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:27:55 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
** PM is working

Not to worry, I wasn't planning to email you...unless you really want the attention?

If you want to look up definitions, go to www.dictionary.com


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 03:29:19 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.

I'm leaning towards the date-rape drug scenario myself, which would support the 'premeditated murder' suspicion.

If a date rape drug were used, there would have to be a reasonable indication that using it on a 110 lb girl who had been drinking, could have resulted in death.

I agree that using a date-rape drug is an indication of sociopathic behavior.


So in the 30 mins he was at CNC before it closed, he hooks with her, gets her to take date rape drug, convinces her while still in the bar to leave with him and let her close friends go back to HI without her. Then at 1am ushers her to the car, all the while none of the MBHS that are left notice a thing and she is "fine".


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: bamarez on June 25, 2005, 03:29:38 AM
Haven't been able to read ALL the posts on here, way too many, but think the medication Natalee was prescribed hasn't been narrowed down or confirmed?


Title: Re: Good Nite
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:29:56 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Sorry, I can't take your word on its validity. Obviously, this email means a great deal to you.  Hate to break your bubble, but whether it's real or not...you're probably one of dozens who have it.  As I said before I will not reference a document that's author is unknown.


I dont expect you too, all I ask is that when I reference it, let it be.

You have broken no bubble, I hope many people have it, as a reference.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:31:38 AM
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
** PM is working

Not to worry, I wasn't planning to email you...unless you really want the attention?

If you want to look up definitions, go to www.dictionary.com



Why do women have to be like this? I was hoping you would use it for your conversation. You did state you would, if it were working.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:32:30 AM
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


My point was that you should investigate with and open mind. You seem to have your mind made up about exactly what happened, and are looking for evidence to support your theories. May I suggest you're putting the cart before the horse. You should be finding the evidence first and form a theory from there. What happens when you are so sure, is that things get made up - like Dan Rather's Bush memos for example.


Imnot forcing anyone to believe what I say.  Im just taking the situation from point a to point b based on the evidence that we know which is very little.  And also of my knowledge of many other murder cases where just the very simple minute fact of changing a story is such a red flag to investigators that there is no reason BASED ON PAST CRIMINAL CASES to look in a different direction.

What you fail to realize is that I hope I am wrong.  Wouldnt it be great to get a call from Columbia from her mom saying she escaped some sex ring? yea it would but the chances of that based on just the few facts we know is so slim its not even worth considering.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 03:32:45 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
** PM is working

Not to worry, I wasn't planning to email you...unless you really want the attention?

If you want to look up definitions, go to www.dictionary.com



Why do women have to be like this? I was hoping you would use it for your conversation. You did state you would, if it were working.


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: PoorPaulaNNJ on June 25, 2005, 03:33:16 AM
Hi, All;
Any updates?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 03:33:31 AM
I'm going to give it to you one more time, and then you can all pile on. Since everything on this message board is pure speculation, at least we can look at the MOST BELIEVABLE SCENARIO. Jvds was raised in a narcissistic family and is a budding sociopath. Mommy and daddy have covered for him from day one. When he brutalized his younger brother he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes (sic), to control his aggression. His mother is an enabler and claims to be completely ignorant of his drinking and drugs. He is 17 but frequents the casinos. There are even reports that he brags about slipping girls a date rape drug and taking advantage of them. His father is willing to cover for a brutal crime and may have even participated in a cover-up. On the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared, he knew that the girls of MBHS would be departing for the United States in the morning. He was thinking that he would slip one of them a date-rape drug, take advantage of her, and she would end up a thousand miles away before before she even remembered what happened. And daddy, with all of his connections, would keep him in the clear. Only something went wrong. Something went very wrong.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:33:46 AM
Quote from: "bamarez"
Haven't been able to read ALL the posts on here, way too many, but think the medication Natalee was prescribed hasn't been narrowed down or confirmed?

\
Nobody knows what medication she was taking.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:36:21 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
I'm going to give it to you one more time, and then you can all pile on. Since everything on this message board is pure speculation, at least we can look at the MOST BELIEVABLE SCENARIO. Jvds was raised in a narcissistic family and is a budding sociopath. Mommy and daddy have covered for him from day one. When he brutalized his younger brother he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes (sic), to control his aggression. His mother is an enabler and claims to be completely ignorant of his drinking and drugs. He is 17 but frequents the casinos. There are even reports that he brags about slipping girls a date rape drug and taking advantage of them. His father is willing to cover for a brutal crime and may have even participated in a cover-up. On the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared, he knew that the girls of MBHS would be departing for the United States in the morning. He was thinking that he would slip one of them a date-rape drug, take advantage of her, and she would end up a thousand miles away before before she even remembered what happened. And daddy, with all of his connections, would keep him in the clear. Only something went wrong. Something went very wrong.


sociopath and narcissism are the 2 words that explain the father and son.  However, I dont view the mother as an enabler, shes rather a victim of years of emotional abuse and cant see the forest for the trees.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:36:55 AM
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:38:29 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
I'm going to give it to you one more time, and then you can all pile on. Since everything on this message board is pure speculation, at least we can look at the MOST BELIEVABLE SCENARIO. Jvds was raised in a narcissistic family and is a budding sociopath. Mommy and daddy have covered for him from day one. When he brutalized his younger brother he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes (sic), to control his aggression. His mother is an enabler and claims to be completely ignorant of his drinking and drugs. He is 17 but frequents the casinos. There are even reports that he brags about slipping girls a date rape drug and taking advantage of them. His father is willing to cover for a brutal crime and may have even participated in a cover-up. On the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared, he knew that the girls of MBHS would be departing for the United States in the morning. He was thinking that he would slip one of them a date-rape drug, take advantage of her, and she would end up a thousand miles away before before she even remembered what happened. And daddy, with all of his connections, would keep him in the clear. Only something went wrong. Something went very wrong.


Thats most believable? Thats mostly rumor....reports? of him slipping girls drugs... and your impression of JVS from God only knows where....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 03:39:24 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


The brothers obstructed justice for sure.

Then there is Conspiracy/cover-up.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:40:17 AM
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:41:52 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.

I'm leaning towards the date-rape drug scenario myself, which would support the 'premeditated murder' suspicion.

If a date rape drug were used, there would have to be a reasonable indication that using it on a 110 lb girl who had been drinking, could have resulted in death.

I agree that using a date-rape drug is an indication of sociopathic behavior.


So in the 30 mins he was at CNC before it closed, he hooks with her, gets her to take date rape drug, convinces her while still in the bar to leave with him and let her close friends go back to HI without her. Then at 1am ushers her to the car, all the while none of the MBHS that are left notice a thing and she is "fine".

Not sure when the date rape drug was administered, but if C'nC Aruba is like most other bars in the Caribbean, you can leave with drinks in plastic glasses.

There's a big crowd of partygoers outside CnC at closing time, all arranging to depart to their respective destinations.

J tells N, I'll accompany you to the hotel. N thinks Kalpoe brothers' car is a taxi.

MBHS students who catch a glimpse thinks she has gotten into a taxi with the cute boy who was flirting with her that night.

Seems harmless. Although hindsight is 20/20.

On that note, I'm going to bid you a good night and be a good girl and not respond to the borderline trolling that has been hurled at me (nah! not you absolut! I'll leave it at that :) )


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: nancy_drew on June 25, 2005, 03:42:18 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


No, if we knew everything there would be no reason to be here.  It's all critical thinking...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Getagrip on June 25, 2005, 03:44:06 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


No, if we knew everything there would be no reason to be here.  It's all critical thinking...

Amen!  Oops...that's right, off to bed I go :)


Title: my theory
Post by: grgnfg420 on June 25, 2005, 03:44:56 AM
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 03:45:11 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


No, if we knew everything there would be no reason to be here.  It's all critical thinking...


Even when we know everything there will still be reasons to be here. I see over 1100 of them in the register users list.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 03:45:28 AM
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:45:30 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


Lack of evidence is your assumption. Just because they dont have natalie doesnt mean they dont have evidence.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 03:48:57 AM
Not being critical ...but the critical point to remember is to debate the critical elements derived from critical thinking without being critical.


sorry ...couldn't resist.. 8)  8)  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Re: my theory
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:50:29 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


I dont buy it.  In an accidently Overdose you might panic but eventually you will tell the truth, with a  total coverup and story changing turns this case in a different direction and thats towards accidental death by strangulation or brutal rage murder.  Deaths are more likely made to look like accidents when they are not, you dont implicate friends and family in a situation that was an ACCIDENT someone of logical mind would report it as such. You would have to have every single person involved in the coverup of the accident basically have some sort of personality disorder.


Title: Re: my theory
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:51:56 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


that's reasonable. like the "420"

may not have been dead though


Title: Re: my theory
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 03:51:57 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


Read my lips. Natalee Holloway wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran. If there were drugs involved, they were given to her AT CLOSING TIME. And they would only be given by one who who was in a position to take advantage of the situation. It is ludicrous to think that someone else would have slipped something into her drink and then watched her walk off with JVDS. And it is ludicrous to think that Natalee is going to voluntarily take drugs while driving around with 3 guys in the car. Even if it were mixed into beer or soft drink. She would be on her guard, at that point.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:53:29 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


Lack of evidence is your assumption. Just because they dont have natalie doesnt mean they dont have evidence.



I meant US, here.....no evidence here.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:54:42 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 03:54:43 AM
Quote
Natalee Holloway wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran.


I swear what I have read in the last 24 hours about CNC's "stage". ANYTIHNG is possible up there by that big monkey head.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 03:56:05 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: NoDumbBunny on June 25, 2005, 03:56:21 AM
''Evening all....

Took me an hour just to read this evenings posts   LOL  Lots of great thoughts and theories out there....

I was thinking - that Natalee did not necessarily take any drug

I reference the nhtsa.dot.org's Campaign Safe & Sober and put this out as food for thought.

"Teenagers are particularly vulnerable to AOD (alcohol overdose). Of the first 8 cases Remove Intoxicated Drivers (RID)  discovered, half were 16 years old or younger. At least half were first-time drinkers and had never been drunk before. Five were put to bed by friends or their own parents to ďsleep it off,Ē only to be found dead in the morning. Their friends or parents didnít know that if a person drinks too much alcohol quickly before falling asleep, the alcohol will shut down breathing and heart functions and kill a person within a few hours."


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 03:56:34 AM
Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "Whitney"
Be Right Back...going to test whether I can walk three miles in the time that Joran said he did from the Marriott beach to his house....don't want to leave anthing up to speculation.

note: edit...Marriott has 2 "r"s

ok don't get abducted
cause right now it's 3am
 :shock:


Thanks...to return to the comfort of the n_drew v. wonderwoman discussion is what kept me slogging on; thinking that JVDS has at least a 20-27% longer total stride length than I, the only thing that kept me on track was that froth.  

Everyone still alive?


Title: Re: my theory
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 03:57:05 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


Read my lips. Natalee Holloway wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran. If there were drugs involved, they were given to her AT CLOSING TIME. And they would only be given by one who who was in a position to take advantage of the situation. It is ludicrous to think that someone else would have slipped something into her drink and then watched her walk off with JVDS. And it is ludicrous to think that Natalee is going to voluntarily take drugs while driving around with 3 guys in the car. Even if it were mixed into beer or soft drink. She would be on her guard, at that point.


Why is it so impossible to think she took X ?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 03:57:21 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 03:59:45 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 04:00:56 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.



Her own friends said that she approached him.....


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 04:02:08 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.


Forget about who approached whom and when. JVDS met and schoozed with lots of girls from MBHS. Natalee Holloway was just his victim of opportunity on the night she disappeared. Simple.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: NoDumbBunny on June 25, 2005, 04:03:49 AM
Whitney???  Hello!!

So how long did your walk take you?? 8)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:04:16 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.



Her own friends said that she approached him.....


There are at least 3 different stories to this one, time, who, what etc. None are fact in my book. Do you guys realize that one of the timelines for their meeting is during the school day on Friday at the HI casino. One is Saturday and the final is sunday at 930pm.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:05:00 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

So if the body is out at sea...the chance of finding forensic evidence is slim, right?  I don't think it's easy to find DNA on the beach?  So unless a body is found a confession is the only way for a conviction.


I would think even if shes found in water, the fact that he was last seen with her and hopefully some other evidence they have that we dont know about will implicate someone they are holding without any DNA.  Right now they are all being held withtout a body so if they find one, I believe their circumstantial evidence would be enough to charge someone.


Given all that, if there is no talking...none...the "stare decisis" in the Netherlandic judicial jurisdictions is that absent a body and overwhelming evidence, the last confined will walk...what is it...120 or 141 days...at that point, if they aren't charged, they are free to go.  

I wouldn't want to got the Florida at that point and try to play soccer or claim that full scholarship, though, under those circumstances.  

Hey, that's the worst case.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 04:06:40 AM
The thrill of gambling is knowing how to improvise. Sociopaths don't always stalk a single victim. They work a group, and see which one they can lure away from the pack. Joran loves to gamble, and is a great improvisor. That is why he was able to change stories and still have 100 people on this bulletin board cheering him on.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 04:10:32 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.


WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 04:11:17 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


Lack of evidence is your assumption. Just because they dont have natalie doesnt mean they dont have evidence.


Also an assumption. Remember Greta's 10% that was alluded to right before the video tape evidence that still hasn't been referenced. Guilt or innocence should not be determined on basis of PVDS gambling and cheating on his wife....if indeed he did either. Folks say the letter's a fake and then use a passage to support a hypothesis. See a picture of Joran with a glass in his hand...assume it's alcohol. Joran is young, arrogant, and thinks he's don juan...he'a a psychopathic murderer. PVDS doesn't want to be questioned by hordes of media monsters and runs...he must be guilty. AVDS looks rough..she's a battered wife. On and ON and on.

THis forum is interesting when posts are about looking into the the tidbits of information to try and draw a conclusion. Yes that's speculation but it's at least based on something tangible instead of how someone looks, talks or their unorthodox lifestyle.

maybe they did it and maybe they didn't but if the police had evidence then we should be seeing more results instead of just talk about tactical maneuvers. YOu'd have to have your head in the sand to not wonder if they are just fishing until they luck into something concrete.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:12:34 AM
Quote
WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.


Totally agree with this post. But I believe PVDS is the reason why he believes these things. The posse not being taken into account should be the kids first clue not to trust dad.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KJ on June 25, 2005, 04:13:01 AM
The faster I read, the faster you post, so itís hard to catch up on this message board!  Then when I tried to post I got kicked off line. It must be an initiation of sorts for new members   :D

I heard on Fox News tonight that a judge from Curacao was coming to hear this whole case today at 3 p.m., and that this (higher?) judge has the right to do his own interrogation of anyone whoís been detained.  

I wonder if this is standard procedure at a point when a local judge thinks there is enough evidence for charges and for preparing for a trial.  This judge from Curacao will make decisions about formal charges and whom police can continue to detain?  Tomorrow may be a day when we learn new info then, especially if most relevant info has been ďguardedĒ until this Curacao judge can rule in this case?  For all we know, someone may have confessed already.  I agree with everyone whoís been saying thereís a lot we don't know... We still may not learn anything new though  :cry:  But because tomorrow is also is when the new search begins, I am hopeful we will learn SOMETHING new!  

Although I am not one to avoid thinking of death when it seems the greatest possibility, I still donít feel Natalee is dead.  Itís hard to think, especially for the family, that we may never know what really has happened.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 04:13:44 AM
Quote from: "NoDumbBunny"
Whitney???  Hello!!

So how long did your walk take you?? 8)


Hey...I'm no dumb bunny...do me a favor....take the time of my post when I said I was going to walk, add three minutes for the time it took to put my Sauconys on, then take my last post time and subtract the time I said I was goin'...oh and then subtract that three minutes, remember, above.  

I'll give you the distance, too, if you need that number. :wink:

Just turned on the radio and they say that Roger Ebert just got a star on a sidewalk in Hollywood.  Now, that's something to fight about for me!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: NoDumbBunny on June 25, 2005, 04:15:37 AM
Whitney or anyone?


Could the Dutch courts impose "TBS" (ter beschikking stelling) on JVdS without a body or a criminal  conviction?? :shock:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:17:37 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.


WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.


Youre free to think what you want but Im not going to get in an argument with you.  Ted Bundy type sociopaths graduate to worse and worse behaviors and he hasnt shown anything to indicate he has a tendancy to take people against their will and kill them.  That is something that builds up over time.  They typically get worse as time goes along.  Hes definitely a sociopath in his behavior to so arrogantly try to snuff the system and also in his ability to just go to school the next day and take exams.   Theres nothing yet to indicate he stalked natalie.  The key word is yet.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 04:19:01 AM
The collective intelligence of the blogs is greatly exaggerated. What we get here are mostly are a lot of ^5's and LOL's and backslapping and planning for barbeques when this is all done. Mutual self-congratulation. I just hope that the FBI and the Aruban police force doesn't succumb to this herd mentality.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:19:34 AM
Quote from: "KJ"
The faster I read, the faster you post, so itís hard to catch up on this message board!  Then when I tried to post I got kicked off line. It must be an initiation of sorts for new members   :D

I heard on Fox News tonight that a judge from Curacao was coming to hear this whole case today at 3 p.m., and that this (higher?) judge has the right to do his own interrogation of anyone whoís been detained.  

I wonder if this is standard procedure at a point when a local judge thinks there is enough evidence for charges and for preparing for a trial.  This judge from Curacao will make decisions about formal charges and whom police can continue to detain?  Tomorrow may be a day when we learn new info then, especially if most relevant info has been ďguardedĒ until this Curacao judge can rule in this case?  For all we know, someone may have confessed already.  I agree with everyone whoís been saying thereís a lot we don't know... We still may not learn anything new though  :cry:  But because tomorrow is also is when the new search begins, I am hopeful we will learn SOMETHING new!  

Although I am not one to avoid thinking of death when it seems the greatest possibility, I still donít feel Natalee is dead.  Itís hard to think, especially for the family, that we may never know what really has happened.


I have a huge concern about the search starting tomorrow.

Evidence: Undocumented, untested, but thought to be important evidence by the texas group. It gets turned over to Aruba LE and the quagmeyer begins. We all saw the misinformation and eventual discounting of what started out as blood evidence. Now we have all see the "pond dump" and other areas that could contain "evidence" in some ways this could be the worst case for the prosecutions case.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: NoDumbBunny on June 25, 2005, 04:20:37 AM
Whitney?

By my (blonde) math - 40 Minutes is how long it took you to walk it!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 04:20:50 AM
To quote the professor:

WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.

He's either that, or living a Kafka novel experience; and, if that comment I heard today...(how can we know if it's true)...that JVDS's comment when he was told that his father was in jail after his arrest; JVDS said, "That doesn't surprise me."

Now that's a human being I have never known.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 04:20:59 AM
absolut, where do you get the 9:30 SUnday night time. I don't remember ever seeing an actual time of being at casino.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 04:22:23 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.


WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.


Youre free to think what you want but Im not going to get in an argument with you.  Ted Bundy type sociopaths graduate to worse and worse behaviors and he hasnt shown anything to indicate he has a tendancy to take people against their will and kill them.  That is something that builds up over time.  They typically get worse as time goes along.  Hes definitely a sociopath in his behavior to so arrogantly try to snuff the system and also in his ability to just go to school the next day and take exams.   Theres nothing yet to indicate he stalked natalie.  The key word is yet.


Read my lips, Razzberry. I didn't say he stalked Natalee. I said he was looking for a victim of opportunity. Natalee was just the unlucky winner of the lottery.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:22:56 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
The collective intelligence of the blogs is greatly exaggerated. What we get here are mostly are a lot of ^5's and LOL's and backslapping and planning for barbeques when this is all done. Mutual self-congratulation. I just hope that the FBI and the Aruban police force doesn't succumb to this herd mentality.


I kinda take offense to those statements about this forum. We have spent hours today working to prune and change the postings going into the Rumor and breaking news threads as well as creating new places for people to post and encouraging them to do so. Just the page count on the last 2 threads shows improvement in these 2 areas.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:23:43 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.


WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.


Youre free to think what you want but Im not going to get in an argument with you.  Ted Bundy type sociopaths graduate to worse and worse behaviors and he hasnt shown anything to indicate he has a tendancy to take people against their will and kill them.  That is something that builds up over time.  They typically get worse as time goes along.  Hes definitely a sociopath in his behavior to so arrogantly try to snuff the system and also in his ability to just go to school the next day and take exams.   Theres nothing yet to indicate he stalked natalie.  The key word is yet.


Read my lips, Razzberry. I didn't say he stalked Natalee. I said he was looking for a victim of opportunity. Natalee was just the unlucky winner of the lottery.


You dont know that and the evidence presented to us so far has even indicated that.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:24:04 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
absolut, where do you get the 9:30 SUnday night time. I don't remember ever seeing an actual time of being at casino.


Two close friends on O Reilly who were clearing up the story. Not dash and Ed but 2 others.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:24:52 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Professor"
The collective intelligence of the blogs is greatly exaggerated. What we get here are mostly are a lot of ^5's and LOL's and backslapping and planning for barbeques when this is all done. Mutual self-congratulation. I just hope that the FBI and the Aruban police force doesn't succumb to this herd mentality.


I kinda take offense to those statements about this forum. We have spent hours today working to prune and change the postings going into the Rumor and breaking news threads as well as creating new places for people to post and encouraging them to do so. Just the page count on the last 2 threads shows improvement in these 2 areas.


Its obviously only worthy of reading if the comments agree 100% to professors theory.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 04:25:39 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
The collective intelligence of the blogs is greatly exaggerated. What we get here are mostly are a lot of ^5's and LOL's and backslapping and planning for barbeques when this is all done. Mutual self-congratulation. I just hope that the FBI and the Aruban police force doesn't succumb to this herd mentality.


hmmm. Self-revelation? Glad to have you as a member, Professor. :lol:  :wink:  :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Shell on June 25, 2005, 04:26:03 AM
I went away from this site for a while and 2 things keep popping into my mind.
1. It seemed that J's purpose that evening was to go to that bar and pick up Natalee.  Her friend said he did not say much, he just followed her around. (per interview on Fox)

2. Both mothers said their sons had said ..."and Mom, when they find Natale I am gonna kick her ass for all this". Now under the circumstances....last thing a compassionate person would want to do was kick her ass, or even say so in jest.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong. :?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:28:00 AM
Quote
1. It seemed that J's purpose that evening was to go to that bar and pick up Natalee. Her friend said he did not say much, he just followed her around. (per interview on Fox)


Casino?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 04:28:29 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
absolut, where do you get the 9:30 SUnday night time. I don't remember ever seeing an actual time of being at casino.


Two close friends on O Reilly who were clearing up the story. Not dash and Ed but 2 others.


thanks. missed that. Maybe we can get another update on your timeline soon?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 04:28:53 AM
Quote from: "NoDumbBunny"
Whitney?

By my (blonde) math - 40 Minutes is how long it took you to walk it!!


...with a smile...next time will you please just PM me...?  shhh...I didn't tell you I have no idea where Joran lives...I think it's at 19 MON...but from the Marriott beach....I have no clue where to go!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: cjm on June 25, 2005, 04:29:10 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


You don't have to have a Ted Bundy.  You could have something like a Robert Chambers.

Joran wanted to have sex with Natalee, Natalie said no and Joran didn't stop.  Joran may have killed her if she struggled, she may have yelled for help and he killed her, or he killed her to stop her from telling.

Joran is a very big young man, 6'5. Natalie was/is only 5'4.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: NoDumbBunny on June 25, 2005, 04:29:17 AM
The most Kafka-esque novel that would correlate to this discussion is The Trial which deals with a man persecuted / put to death by agencies of an unfathomable court of law.

hmmmm  unfathomable.....

(NOT a knock to Aruba, FYI)   :D


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Shell on June 25, 2005, 04:30:03 AM
no, C n C...the evening before she went missing


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:30:18 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
absolut, where do you get the 9:30 SUnday night time. I don't remember ever seeing an actual time of being at casino.


Two close friends on O Reilly who were clearing up the story. Not dash and Ed but 2 others.


thanks. missed that. Maybe we can get another update on your timeline soon?


My smartass answer at 430am is what timeline? We don't know anything and I would be a fool to document that we do.

The right answer is look for updates summarys and timelines from several posters later on this morning.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Professor on June 25, 2005, 04:30:28 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Professor"
The collective intelligence of the blogs is greatly exaggerated. What we get here are mostly are a lot of ^5's and LOL's and backslapping and planning for barbeques when this is all done. Mutual self-congratulation. I just hope that the FBI and the Aruban police force doesn't succumb to this herd mentality.


I kinda take offense to those statements about this forum. We have spent hours today working to prune and change the postings going into the Rumor and breaking news threads as well as creating new places for people to post and encouraging them to do so. Just the page count on the last 2 threads shows improvement in these 2 areas.


Absolute, you are a budding journalist. I have visited your web page and was impressed at your compilation of news. You will have a great future in the news business. But, puuuleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze don't let the promises of a barbeque warp your mind. Unless you follow your own gut instincts, the BBQ that you attend may be your own.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:30:31 AM
Quote from: "cjm"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


You don't have to have a Ted Bundy.  You could have something like a Robert Chambers.

Joran wanted to have sex with Natalee, Natalie said no and Joran didn't stop.  Joran may have killed her if she struggled, she may have yelled for help and he killed her, or he killed her to stop her from telling.

Joran is a very big young man, 6'5. Natalie was/is only 5'4.


You missed the part about professor saying that joran drove a yellow VW Bug.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KJ on June 25, 2005, 04:31:37 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
We all saw the misinformation and eventual discounting of what started out as blood evidence.


I've been confused about this and probably missed a news report, though I remember reading about a bloody t-shirt and thought it might have been just speculation.  Was there a bloody t-shirt that actually was reported?  

I agree, Absolut, that how the search team and their findings are treated by LE is crucial.  But LE seems "open" to the help now.  So we can only hope...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:31:59 AM
Quote from: "Shell"
no, C n C...they evening before she went missing


But they had met before that at some point all sources confirm that we just don't know the how or when exactly.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:32:11 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote
1. It seemed that J's purpose that evening was to go to that bar and pick up Natalee. Her friend said he did not say much, he just followed her around. (per interview on Fox)


Casino?


conflicting stories.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:37:25 AM
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Professor"
The collective intelligence of the blogs is greatly exaggerated. What we get here are mostly are a lot of ^5's and LOL's and backslapping and planning for barbeques when this is all done. Mutual self-congratulation. I just hope that the FBI and the Aruban police force doesn't succumb to this herd mentality.


I kinda take offense to those statements about this forum. We have spent hours today working to prune and change the postings going into the Rumor and breaking news threads as well as creating new places for people to post and encouraging them to do so. Just the page count on the last 2 threads shows improvement in these 2 areas.


Absolute, you are a budding journalist. I have visited your web page and was impressed at your compilation of news. You will have a great future in the news business. But, puuuleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze don't let the promises of a barbeque warp your mind. Unless you follow your own gut instincts, the BBQ that you attend may be your own.


My final theory and yours are very similar. As for my gut instinct, I back them up with facts that the majority can agree on. Since you and are using the same facts, your post have now confused me.

I am not a budding journalist, my english, grammar and spelling SUCK. I have a very satisfying career now well outside the news business. The talk of get togethers goes far beyond the case of Natalee Holloway it goes to building a community with a bigger purpose. Next week it could be your son, your daughter, and someone somewhere has to keep them in the MSM and generate a public interest.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: hithere on June 25, 2005, 04:38:24 AM
by the way, as far a the water search that is starting today, assuming that thay search 10 miles out, which is about how far i would guess someone could go at night, dump a body  :(  and be back before light (also it makes it easier to figure  :D   )  

they will have to search 411 sq miles.  a rep from eccusearch said that they could search swaths of 800 ft wide.  that would work out to take about 82 hours.  i'm tired so i might have messed up the math.  i assumed they would go about 5 mph.  also, that does not count putting down divers, which would probably take 30 min or so.  depending on the condition of the water


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Whitney on June 25, 2005, 04:41:21 AM
I have to agree with the Professor and I'm the guiltiest of us all; I can't resolve the VDS family with their imputed crimes; I can "feel the pain" of the Twittys but I find myself niggling with stuff I've seen in their 24/7 TV appearances...

For me, I'd rather that Lorenzo Van Rijn was the captor of NH and that the Aruba polis with the FBI rescued NH from the basement.  that Beth and Anita would hug and kiss and that Jug would slap ol' Paulus on the back in tears and apologize to him profusely for having cut him short...but that doesn't appear a possiblity, at least tonight.

So, I'm wishing my mentor sleuths, here, a good night and the keen minds to figure this one out.  I'll come back tomorrow for sure and be the first to congratulate you for doing so!  

thanks.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Shell on June 25, 2005, 04:41:24 AM
Yes absolut, I know. They HAD met before, however briefly, but she did introduce herself to him (that day at the casino?).  He showed up  where the group went over a period of days, hence they recognized him). What I am saying is, the last evening before the group left he showed up at C and C, and from what I gather he knew that group would be there. Now to show up at such a late hour? Why was he so hell bent on catching a ride to that bar? He gets there and her friend says he didn't say much, just seemed to follow Natalie around.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 04:44:50 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
absolut, where do you get the 9:30 SUnday night time. I don't remember ever seeing an actual time of being at casino.


Two close friends on O Reilly who were clearing up the story. Not dash and Ed but 2 others.


thanks. missed that. Maybe we can get another update on your timeline soon?


My smartass answer at 430am is what timeline? We don't know anything and I would be a fool to document that we do.

The right answer is look for updates summarys and timelines from several posters later on this morning.


My smartass response: "perhaps we're getting a little tired" and not knowing anything certainly hasn't stopped the collective we from documenting up to now.  :lol:

The right response is my bad. I thought I remembered you posting  before a timeline of sorts based on what we've heard from statements and other. And since other posts from you were asking about times I thought maybe  you were keeping up with. I'll look for it elsewhere. Thanks.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: WonderWoman on June 25, 2005, 04:48:38 AM
www.useless-knowledge.com


People here in the coffee shop say the last people to see a missing person are, indeed, logical suspects. I beg to differ: the last people to seen a missing person are not suspect. That's a logical absurdity. A few years ago, a man disappeared under circumstances not unlike those here. He was missing for years. No suspects (no one knew who had seen him last - thank god). When a psychic was called in by police, the man and his pickup - also missing - were located at the bottom of a water-filled quarry. Lost on a country road, he had driven over a cliff, fallen into the water, and drowned.

If someone had been seen with this guy with anyone, and authorities had followed the nitwit procedure demanded by investigative geniuses like Greta Van Susteren, Bill O'Reilly, and the paragon of cool reason and rhetoric Sean Hannity, someone would have gone to jail. Meanwhile, O. J. Simpson and Michael Jackson are innocent. Great system you've got here, folks.

Meanwhile, maybe you ought to leave the Arubans alone?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:50:16 AM
Like shell and I were just discussing I can't even figure out an accurate time or day to put the Natalee/Joran meeting the casino. That is just the tip conflicts I now have.

Here is a new one I haven't even posted. The island is small. They leave CNC at 1:00am drive...........3am Marriott beach yet part of the Brothers Alibi is online at 2am. If everything on the island is 10-12 minutes by car 2 hours is a lifetime to get to 3am.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:52:07 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
www.useless-knowledge.com


People here in the coffee shop say the last people to see a missing person are, indeed, logical suspects. I beg to differ: the last people to seen a missing person are not suspect. That's a logical absurdity. A few years ago, a man disappeared under circumstances not unlike those here. He was missing for years. No suspects (no one knew who had seen him last - thank god). When a psychic was called in by police, the man and his pickup - also missing - were located at the bottom of a water-filled quarry. Lost on a country road, he had driven over a cliff, fallen into the water, and drowned.

If someone had been seen with this guy with anyone, and authorities had followed the nitwit procedure demanded by investigative geniuses like Greta Van Susteren, Bill O'Reilly, and the paragon of cool reason and rhetoric Sean Hannity, someone would have gone to jail. Meanwhile, O. J. Simpson and Michael Jackson are innocent. Great system you've got here, folks.

Meanwhile, maybe you ought to leave the Arubans alone?


Don't forget Robert Blake.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:52:15 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
www.useless-knowledge.com


People here in the coffee shop say the last people to see a missing person are, indeed, logical suspects. I beg to differ: the last people to seen a missing person are not suspect. That's a logical absurdity. A few years ago, a man disappeared under circumstances not unlike those here. He was missing for years. No suspects (no one knew who had seen him last - thank god). When a psychic was called in by police, the man and his pickup - also missing - were located at the bottom of a water-filled quarry. Lost on a country road, he had driven over a cliff, fallen into the water, and drowned.

If someone had been seen with this guy with anyone, and authorities had followed the nitwit procedure demanded by investigative geniuses like Greta Van Susteren, Bill O'Reilly, and the paragon of cool reason and rhetoric Sean Hannity, someone would have gone to jail. Meanwhile, O. J. Simpson and Michael Jackson are innocent. Great system you've got here, folks.

Meanwhile, maybe you ought to leave the Arubans alone?


We dont consider California part of the real USA so those trials arent very good examples.  California suffers from Hollywood syndrome where body builders can run the government and the King of Pop can rape little boys.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: gargriff49 on June 25, 2005, 04:53:43 AM
Quote from: "cjm"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


You don't have to have a Ted Bundy.  You could have something like a Robert Chambers.

Joran wanted to have sex with Natalee, Natalie said no and Joran didn't stop.  Joran may have killed her if she struggled, she may have yelled for help and he killed her, or he killed her to stop her from telling.

Joran is a very big young man, 6'5. Natalie was/is only 5'4.


1 closed fist blow to the head from a person his size to a person her size could easily be fatal.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 04:55:29 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Like shell and I were just discussing I can't even figure out an accurate time or day to put the Natalee/Joran meeting the casino. That is just the tip conflictions I now have. Here is a new I haven't even posted. The island is small. They leave CNC at 1:00am drive...........3am Marriott beach yet part of the Brother Alibi is online at 2am. If everything on the island is 10-12 minutes by car 2 hours is a lifetime to get to 3am.


her friends stated in an fox interview that he was just sitting there playing poker or blackjack on the last night she was there not really doing anything and she came up to him and introduced herself.  They didnt indicate they she had met him before that night.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 04:57:06 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Like shell and I were just discussing I can't even figure out an accurate time or day to put the Natalee/Joran meeting the casino. That is just the tip conflictions I now have. Here is a new I haven't even posted. The island is small. They leave CNC at 1:00am drive...........3am Marriott beach yet part of the Brother Alibi is online at 2am. If everything on the island is 10-12 minutes by car 2 hours is a lifetime to get to 3am.


her friends stated in an fox interview that he was just sitting there playing poker or blackjack on the last night she was there not really doing anything and she came up to him and introduced herself.  They didnt indicate they she had met him before that night.


Her mother and jug (seperately) on multiple occasions, as well as Ed and dash stated earlier times. Some they say were confirmed by video in the casino.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 05:00:29 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Like shell and I were just discussing I can't even figure out an accurate time or day to put the Natalee/Joran meeting the casino. That is just the tip conflictions I now have. Here is a new I haven't even posted. The island is small. They leave CNC at 1:00am drive...........3am Marriott beach yet part of the Brother Alibi is online at 2am. If everything on the island is 10-12 minutes by car 2 hours is a lifetime to get to 3am.


her friends stated in an fox interview that he was just sitting there playing poker or blackjack on the last night she was there not really doing anything and she came up to him and introduced herself.  They didnt indicate they she had met him before that night.


Her mother and jug (seperately) on multiple occasions, as well as Ed and dash stated earlier times. Some they say were confirmed by video in the casino.


ok  i didnt hear that scenario.  I knew there was more information on the videos but I didnt know what.  I can almost picture him sitting there nonchalant trying to act cool knowing shes going to come up to him when she sees him sitting there.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 05:01:30 AM
With the conflict I really can't state either as fact.

For all I know they met 3 days before and his parents were in holland and she spent 2 nights at his apartment and not at the hotel and the reason no one thought anything of it the last night is she hadn't been there the previous 2.

I don't believe that, and it isn't my gut instinct. It is also not my theory of what happened.

But no one has said she was in her room the other nights.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: sb on June 25, 2005, 05:01:51 AM
Before I jump off to bed I want to get one thing in here.

The swings on this board today have been unbelievable! One minute Joran is a dangerous psychopathic Ted Bundy figure who killed Natalee in cold blood, the next minute he is a "victim" too and we want to go off looking for missing tourist guys. And round and round it goes and where it stops, nobody knows.

In my EXTREMELY humble opinion, knowing full well my limitations, I think that the whole scenario of Joran killing Natalee in a fit of rage is NOT likely. I think that the bringing in of Croes and PVDS is a marker for some wider story... STILL. Bear in mind that if Joran used no drugs obtained from Croes, Croes being implicated makes no sense. Joran barely knew the guy... he is NOT gonna call him to dump a body for him. I doubt that even the bros. were up to that kind of business.

Natalee's behavior as related by MBHS kids (and they are the ONLY ones to put any credence in at all) does NOT seem to favor "ecstacy" use based on the REPORTED side-effects of that drug. It resembles Rohypnol MUCH more closely, again based on the reported way that drug acts. Wasn't Joran called "Roofie King" on one of his blogs?

The only way to prove anything at all would if forensics showed that Natalee was at the VDS house at some point, then we could say that he drugged her, took her home, etc. Probably for a photo shoot, MAYBE for a handoff to unknown person(s), who knows?

I am nodding off to sleep so I will close, but I want to say that I am not convinced that Natalee isn't alive and being held by someone. I don't think Joran intentionally killed her. He loves himself too much to risk a murder rap. Think on that.

Pray for Natalee and her family!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 05:07:43 AM
I don't think the video showed them together unless was mentioned in another interview after this one.....

HOLLOWAY: Well, the first thing we did, we had three citizens here. They work for an international company. They took us around. We immediately began reviewing the situation, and we actually reviewed some video footage from the Holiday Inn, the hotel casino, and just tried to pinpoint who this young man was that Natalee was last seen with and just began our own family investigation.

VAN SUSTEREN: You actually sat down and looked at this video?

HOLLOWAY: Yes, I did.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you spot Natalee in the video?

HOLLOWAY: No, it wasn't to spot Natalee in the video, it was just to make an identification of the young man that Natalee was last seen with.

VAN SUSTEREN: But you weren't here, so how would you be in a position to even know who this young man was?

HOLLOWAY: Through some of her classmates. And this young man had spent time with these children. He had been with them for a couple of days. They knew this young man. They knew his first name. They had spent hours with him. So it wasn't a secret. It wasn't a secret who she left with.

VAN SUSTEREN: Were they sort of having sort of, like, dating each other?

HOLLOWAY: No, absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: It was just part of a group?

HOLLOWAY: Part of a group.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did her friends see anything about this young man, anything distinctive about him or problems with him?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alcohol, drugs?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nice kid, as far as they knew?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely, yes.


Title: Natalee's friend's interview
Post by: AZLady on June 25, 2005, 05:10:29 AM
The transcript of interview with Alana and Ed, Natalee's friends, is here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

I remember seeing the interview with the other friends in Mountain Brook, but can't find it right now.  Hopefully, this will help as to when she met him--maybe, a little?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 05:12:17 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
I don't think the video showed them together unless was mentioned in another interview after this one.....

HOLLOWAY: Well, the first thing we did, we had three citizens here. They work for an international company. They took us around. We immediately began reviewing the situation, and we actually reviewed some video footage from the Holiday Inn, the hotel casino, and just tried to pinpoint who this young man was that Natalee was last seen with and just began our own family investigation.

VAN SUSTEREN: You actually sat down and looked at this video?

HOLLOWAY: Yes, I did.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you spot Natalee in the video?

HOLLOWAY: No, it wasn't to spot Natalee in the video, it was just to make an identification of the young man that Natalee was last seen with.

VAN SUSTEREN: But you weren't here, so how would you be in a position to even know who this young man was?

HOLLOWAY: Through some of her classmates. And this young man had spent time with these children. He had been with them for a couple of days. They knew this young man. They knew his first name. They had spent hours with him. So it wasn't a secret. It wasn't a secret who she left with.

VAN SUSTEREN: Were they sort of having sort of, like, dating each other?

HOLLOWAY: No, absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: It was just part of a group?

HOLLOWAY: Part of a group.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did her friends see anything about this young man, anything distinctive about him or problems with him?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alcohol, drugs?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nice kid, as far as they knew?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely, yes.


I agree in some interviews that is the answer and it others it is different.

It is almost like what time did they gang from Alabama get on the island. 11:30, 11, or as jug said tonight 10:30. Everytime anything is from a primary in this case it is a different story just by a little bit.


Title: Re: Natalee's friend's interview
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 05:13:57 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
The transcript of interview with Alana and Ed, Natalee's friends, is here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

I remember seeing the interview with the other friends in Mountain Brook, but can't find it right now.  Hopefully, this will help as to when she met him--maybe, a little?


ED KISSEL, FRIEND OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think I saw her a little later that night. I had stayed in Carlos 'n Charlie's pretty long, and I saw her dancing with Van Der Sloot later that night.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.

O'REILLY: All right. So Natalee obviously knew him, then, was familiar with him. And when you saw him dancing with her, that didn't set off any bells. Was Natalee intoxicated, in your opinion?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 05:14:07 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
I don't think the video showed them together unless was mentioned in another interview after this one.....

HOLLOWAY: Well, the first thing we did, we had three citizens here. They work for an international company. They took us around. We immediately began reviewing the situation, and we actually reviewed some video footage from the Holiday Inn, the hotel casino, and just tried to pinpoint who this young man was that Natalee was last seen with and just began our own family investigation.

VAN SUSTEREN: You actually sat down and looked at this video?

HOLLOWAY: Yes, I did.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you spot Natalee in the video?

HOLLOWAY: No, it wasn't to spot Natalee in the video, it was just to make an identification of the young man that Natalee was last seen with.

VAN SUSTEREN: But you weren't here, so how would you be in a position to even know who this young man was?

HOLLOWAY: Through some of her classmates. And this young man had spent time with these children. He had been with them for a couple of days. They knew this young man. They knew his first name. They had spent hours with him. So it wasn't a secret. It wasn't a secret who she left with.

VAN SUSTEREN: Were they sort of having sort of, like, dating each other?

HOLLOWAY: No, absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: It was just part of a group?

HOLLOWAY: Part of a group.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did her friends see anything about this young man, anything distinctive about him or problems with him?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alcohol, drugs?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nice kid, as far as they knew?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely, yes.


I think this video shes referring to is just the one trying to determine who she was seen with last.  There could be prior day videos that show them talking on a prior date.  Seeing this interview posted made me remember something I saw regarding Mrs Twitty in seeing the videos in that there was one where she saw Mr VDS and said 'THATS HIM THATS HIM"  so theres something on these videos that place him at the casino one night.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: AZLady on June 25, 2005, 05:16:42 AM
Remember, also, that one of the Mt. Brook teens said they looked up C&C's website and saw Joran's picture on the site and he was wearing the same shirt!  that had to be before the last day, wouldn't it have?


Title: Re: Natalee's friend's interview
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 05:16:45 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
The transcript of interview with Alana and Ed, Natalee's friends, is here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

I remember seeing the interview with the other friends in Mountain Brook, but can't find it right now.  Hopefully, this will help as to when she met him--maybe, a little?


I didn't get the feeling that this girl was a close girlfriend to Natalee. More like schoolmates. Just a feeling that she wasn't in Natalee's cliche or circle of close friends. and don't remember seeing her in pictures with Natalee. So you have to wonder if she would have been hanging out with Natalee before the night of seeing her at C & Cs. Usually on group trips like this kids still tend to hang out in their little groups. But I could be wrong.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 05:18:47 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "chelsblu"
I don't think the video showed them together unless was mentioned in another interview after this one.....

HOLLOWAY: Well, the first thing we did, we had three citizens here. They work for an international company. They took us around. We immediately began reviewing the situation, and we actually reviewed some video footage from the Holiday Inn, the hotel casino, and just tried to pinpoint who this young man was that Natalee was last seen with and just began our own family investigation.

VAN SUSTEREN: You actually sat down and looked at this video?

HOLLOWAY: Yes, I did.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you spot Natalee in the video?

HOLLOWAY: No, it wasn't to spot Natalee in the video, it was just to make an identification of the young man that Natalee was last seen with.

VAN SUSTEREN: But you weren't here, so how would you be in a position to even know who this young man was?

HOLLOWAY: Through some of her classmates. And this young man had spent time with these children. He had been with them for a couple of days. They knew this young man. They knew his first name. They had spent hours with him. So it wasn't a secret. It wasn't a secret who she left with.

VAN SUSTEREN: Were they sort of having sort of, like, dating each other?

HOLLOWAY: No, absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: It was just part of a group?

HOLLOWAY: Part of a group.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did her friends see anything about this young man, anything distinctive about him or problems with him?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alcohol, drugs?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nice kid, as far as they knew?

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely, yes.


I agree in some interviews that is the answer and it others it is different.

It is almost like what time did they gang from Alabama get on the island. 11:30, 11, or as jug said tonight 10:30. Everytime anything is from a primary in this case it is a different story just by a little bit.


Yes. I've noticed that on several items.


Title: Re: Natalee's friend's interview
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 05:18:55 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"
Quote from: "AZLady"
The transcript of interview with Alana and Ed, Natalee's friends, is here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

I remember seeing the interview with the other friends in Mountain Brook, but can't find it right now.  Hopefully, this will help as to when she met him--maybe, a little?


I didn't get the feeling that this girl was a close girlfriend to Natalee. More like schoolmates. Just a feeling that she wasn't in Natalee's cliche or circle of close friends. and don't remember seeing her in pictures with Natalee. So you have to wonder if she would have been hanging out with Natalee before the night of seeing her at C & Cs. Usually on group trips like this kids still tend to hang out in their little groups. But I could be wrong.


I agree and those friends say the first time she met him is 930 Sunday night and that she introduced herself. I have been told in PM's and in post that this is just wrong and inaccurate.


Title: Re: Natalee's friend's interview
Post by: AZLady on June 25, 2005, 05:19:54 AM
Quote from: "chelsblu"

I didn't get the feeling that this girl was a close girlfriend to Natalee. More like schoolmates. Just a feeling that she wasn't in Natalee's cliche or circle of close friends. and don't remember seeing her in pictures with Natalee. So you have to wonder if she would have been hanging out with Natalee before the night of seeing her at C & Cs. Usually on group trips like this kids still tend to hang out in their little groups. But I could be wrong.


I had the same impression. Alana said they were good friends, but she wasn't in the pictures with Natalee.  She also said that Natalee was friends with many of the students, someone everyone liked.  But, I agree with your feeling; I don't think they were close confidants--someone she would have shared her secrets with.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: AZLady on June 25, 2005, 05:22:21 AM
Now, the girls she was with when they looked up Joran on the C&C website were more likely her close friends -- the kind she might have shared guy talk with.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 05:24:45 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Now, the girls she was with when they looked up Joran on the C&C website were more likely her close friends -- the kind she might have shared guy talk with.


Under that line of thought they would have looked up between 9:30 and 11:00-11:30 when they went to CNC, why would they have done that?


Title: back to my previous post
Post by: grgnfg420 on June 25, 2005, 05:25:07 AM
now im not charicterizing nh but as a normal 18 year old student on there last night of there senior trip would be a night to remember, now aruba is in direct connect with holland,were about 90 % of the worlds X comes from so im assuming there is a lot of X floatin around the island, so i dont see it being very farfetched that an 18 year old girl decided to try X. its not like other date rape drugs it wouldnt appear that much out of the abnormal in a club scene dancing around and being hyper, most would assume they are just drunk, but i do belive him an natalie were on the beach while she was on X and may have OD'ed and i do think that would be a reason to make an alibi and bring others in just to aviod being connected to this situation


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: absolut on June 25, 2005, 05:28:29 AM
Did anyone else catch the line that Depak and Satish mom said about not knowing anyone on the island? How long has she been there? I know it doesn't really matter to the case, I just found it odd since the brothers have been there for years.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 05:37:38 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Did anyone else catch the line that Depak and Satish mom said about not knowing anyone on the island? How long has she been there? I know it doesn't really matter to the case, I just found it odd since the brothers have been there for years.


I saw the interview and I didnt see that part, I got confused because she was hard to understand.  the confusion was that I was getting one brother lived with her and one with her mother??? She took greta in only one of the boys rooms, does the other one have an apartment somewhere?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: chelsblu on June 25, 2005, 05:38:19 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Did anyone else catch the line that Depak and Satish mom said about not knowing anyone on the island? How long has she been there? I know it doesn't really matter to the case, I just found it odd since the brothers have been there for years.


wasn't there something about them living with grandmother until recently. maybe she just came on the scene? I didn't catch that segment well.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: hithere on June 25, 2005, 05:41:02 AM
one of the problem is that people are assuming that just because she was 18 and drugs were available, that she would take them...  where i grew up there were plenty of drugs, alot of kids took them, alot did not.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Sobelle on June 25, 2005, 05:46:28 AM
Quote from: "absolut"
Did anyone else catch the line that Depak and Satish mom said about not knowing anyone on the island? How long has she been there? I know it doesn't really matter to the case, I just found it odd since the brothers have been there for years.


I think the mom said the boy's had lived there for 5 years and before that with her mom in Surinam.  I don't think she said in the interview how long she had been living in Aruba. She did say that she didn't know anyone.


Title: Interesting choice of words
Post by: LouLou on June 25, 2005, 06:04:00 AM
HOLLOWAY: Through some of her classmates. And this young man had spent time with these children. He had been with them for a couple of days. They knew this young man. They knew his first name. They had spent hours with him. So it wasn't a secret. It wasn't a secret who she left with.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 25, 2005, 06:24:07 AM
Quote from: "Daniel"
Quote from: "coco"
In Dutch law, is there the responsibility to help someone in distress or danger (which we don't have here)?

Yes. To abandon someone who is in danger (while you were able to help) is a criminal offence and if the person dies, may lead to up to 10 years in jail if I recall correctly.


You read it well, however you can fight this in court because it's quite difficult to determen if that person in need, not danger, 'need' , was in your care by law or by contract. So I am not sure, when this goes to court, that a judge will sentence someone on basis of this article. But I would most certainly try if al others fail (murder, manslaughter abduction leading to a death).


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 06:27:43 AM
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "Daniel"
Quote from: "coco"
In Dutch law, is there the responsibility to help someone in distress or danger (which we don't have here)?

Yes. To abandon someone who is in danger (while you were able to help) is a criminal offence and if the person dies, may lead to up to 10 years in jail if I recall correctly.


You read it well, however you can fight this in court because it's quite difficult to determen if that person in need, not danger, 'need' , was in your care by law or by contract. So I am not sure, when this goes to court, that a judge will sentence someone on basis of this article. But I would most certainly try if al others fail (murder, manslaughter abduction leading to a death).


Ok so thats hard to prove, can they charge and convict someone without a body?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: grgnfg420 on June 25, 2005, 06:32:02 AM
i think there is a lot more to this case than is being released, i think drugs and money were involved, and the way everyone is acting on the island, the decapitation of the body found  a day later croes was arrested. was is a warning to the 3 boys, not to talk. it seems very strange that a bruatl murder would happen a day after croes an alleged drug dealer is arrested, when "something bad happend" to NH that is really all these boys can say. they saw it happen and they know what happend, i dont think they killed her but led her to be in that situation


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 06:38:28 AM
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
www.useless-knowledge.com


People here in the coffee shop say the last people to see a missing person are, indeed, logical suspects. I beg to differ: the last people to seen a missing person are not suspect. That's a logical absurdity. A few years ago, a man disappeared under circumstances not unlike those here. He was missing for years. No suspects (no one knew who had seen him last - thank god). When a psychic was called in by police, the man and his pickup - also missing - were located at the bottom of a water-filled quarry. Lost on a country road, he had driven over a cliff, fallen into the water, and drowned.

If someone had been seen with this guy with anyone, and authorities had followed the nitwit procedure demanded by investigative geniuses like Greta Van Susteren, Bill O'Reilly, and the paragon of cool reason and rhetoric Sean Hannity, someone would have gone to jail. Meanwhile, O. J. Simpson and Michael Jackson are innocent. Great system you've got here, folks.

Meanwhile, maybe you ought to leave the Arubans alone?


Good morning monkeys. Just wanted to say things like this do happen. My cousin was missing for a little over a year. Good kid, around 19 yrs old. Didnt do drugs, drink or anything. He happened to go out one summer night to a party, came home, got in a fight with my aunt (his mom). Left in the heat of the moment, told his mom he was going back to his friends house never to be seen again. A year later a helicopter was flying over a ravine and saw what turned out to be his car. They searched and there he was, same clothes and wallet with him. He had apparently not gone to his friends at all, drove around, crashed and had been sitting there the whole time.
Just thought Id share that. Again morning everyone!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 06:38:52 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think there is a lot more to this case than is being released, i think drugs and money were involved, and the way everyone is acting on the island, the decapitation of the body found  a day later croes was arrested. was is a warning to the 3 boys, not to talk. it seems very strange that a bruatl murder would happen a day after croes an alleged drug dealer is arrested, when "something bad happend" to NH that is really all these boys can say. they saw it happen and they know what happend, i dont think they killed her but led her to be in that situation


thats an interesting scenario regarding the timing of the arrest and the timing of that decapitation.  I will have to read more about that.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 06:43:17 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think there is a lot more to this case than is being released, i think drugs and money were involved, and the way everyone is acting on the island, the decapitation of the body found  a day later croes was arrested. was is a warning to the 3 boys, not to talk. it seems very strange that a bruatl murder would happen a day after croes an alleged drug dealer is arrested, when "something bad happend" to NH that is really all these boys can say. they saw it happen and they know what happend, i dont think they killed her but led her to be in that situation

Morning. I am not discounting your theory or anything because at this point anything is possible. I just always figured the decapitated body in the cemetary or near it was a crime of opportunity. Meaning, someone knew this case was all over the news, and possibly hopes ppl would speculate a connection. Giving them the perfect time to murder someone and maybe lead investigators astray. That was just my opinion but as this case moves on anything is possible. I really dont know what to think at this point.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Gerben aka Pays Bas on June 25, 2005, 06:43:51 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "Daniel"
Quote from: "coco"
In Dutch law, is there the responsibility to help someone in distress or danger (which we don't have here)?

Yes. To abandon someone who is in danger (while you were able to help) is a criminal offence and if the person dies, may lead to up to 10 years in jail if I recall correctly.


You read it well, however you can fight this in court because it's quite difficult to determen if that person in need, not danger, 'need' , was in your care by law or by contract. So I am not sure, when this goes to court, that a judge will sentence someone on basis of this article. But I would most certainly try if al others fail (murder, manslaughter abduction leading to a death).


Ok so thats hard to prove, can they charge and convict someone without a body?


I have posted earlier on this board, search on Gerben, that I know that in one case a drugsdealer was convicted of murdering his friend. No body has ever been found, but the dealer bragged about it in a letter and the judge saw that was enough. Quite a unique case here. But it will be very hard for the prosecution to get someone convicted for murder if there's no body.

/edited for details


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: grgnfg420 on June 25, 2005, 06:44:06 AM
thats what makes me think there are higher powers involeved, and also why natalies family seems optimistic that she was kidnapped and still alive


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: grgnfg420 on June 25, 2005, 06:47:43 AM
i think whoever has NH got scared and needed to send a message to these kids, i mean why are all of them not saying anything, i doubt all 5 suspects had a signifigant part in this kidnapping, they are scared for there lives.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 06:53:49 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think whoever has NH got scared and needed to send a message to these kids, i mean why are all of them not saying anything, i doubt all 5 suspects had a signifigant part in this kidnapping, they are scared for there lives.


I cant find anything that sets the decapitation the day after croes arrest.  All I see is that it happened recently but nothing as to specifics on the date of the incident.  Do you have a link that states precisely when this decapitation occurred?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 06:53:58 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think whoever has NH got scared and needed to send a message to these kids, i mean why are all of them not saying anything, i doubt all 5 suspects had a signifigant part in this kidnapping, they are scared for there lives.
Good Morning all....

Grg, I TOTALLY agree with you!!!  AND, I think she is alive....waiting on confirmation from this Texas Equusearch group!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 06:54:30 AM
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think whoever has NH got scared and needed to send a message to these kids, i mean why are all of them not saying anything, i doubt all 5 suspects had a signifigant part in this kidnapping, they are scared for there lives.

You could be right. I guess I am just one of those ppl who believes things usually have simple answers, and not as wild and far fetched as you would see in a TV movie. Generally with almost any crime its simple. This case though has had so many twists and turns its hard to say. The fact to me is all we really know is she was last seen with the 3 boys, lead to the beach with Joran (by his mothers statement) and never seen again.
I hope she is alive, and understand her mothers need to believe she might be. My own son was kidnapped and you ALWAYS hold out hope for the best outcome. I was one of the fortunate few who had the good outcome. I hope she is as fortunate as I was.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: golden on June 25, 2005, 06:58:55 AM
http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000816.html

(Vanishing of Natalee Holloway)...Complicity
Complicity means "association or participation in a criminal act."


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 06:59:23 AM
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:02:24 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think whoever has NH got scared and needed to send a message to these kids, i mean why are all of them not saying anything, i doubt all 5 suspects had a signifigant part in this kidnapping, they are scared for there lives.

You could be right. I guess I am just one of those ppl who believes things usually have simple answers, and not as wild and far fetched as you would see in a TV movie. Generally with almost any crime its simple. This case though has had so many twists and turns its hard to say. The fact to me is all we really know is she was last seen with the 3 boys, lead to the beach with Joran (by his mothers statement) and never seen again.
I hope she is alive, and understand her mothers need to believe she might be. My own son was kidnapped and you ALWAYS hold out hope for the best outcome. I was one of the fortunate few who had the good outcome. I hope she is as fortunate as I was.
sorry to hear that you had to go through that...but am VERY GLAD that you had a positive outcome...

This is what I think...I think that either Joran and Natalee saw something that they were not supposed to see...and whomever was doing this illegal act, took Natalee and told Joren, if you tell anybody, I will kill you and your family...OR... Somebody has it out for Paulos Van Der Sloot...and they kidnapped Natalee (there is a rumor that a ransom has been paid by the Holloways and Twittys and that they are just waiting on them to turn over Natalee)and framing the Van Der Sloots...

Last one could also have something to do with one of the Holloway/Twitty father or step father....or that company that provided the private jet..(someone said that that company had had one of their workers kidnapped and the company paid a ransom and got the worker back)...

ALL SPECULATION...AND HOPING SHE IS ALIVE!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: hithere on June 25, 2005, 07:03:30 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think whoever has NH got scared and needed to send a message to these kids, i mean why are all of them not saying anything, i doubt all 5 suspects had a signifigant part in this kidnapping, they are scared for there lives.


I cant find anything that sets the decapitation the day after croes arrest.  All I see is that it happened recently but nothing as to specifics on the date of the incident.  Do you have a link that states precisely when this decapitation occurred?


this was one of the first things i though.  but the most glaring thing against it in my mind is, if this was premeditated, joran seems to be a bright guy, why would he do it so he would have some many people witness them together.  why take that chance?  to me that is the biggest evidence that, whatever happened, was sudden and un-expected.

the underground sex trade is powerful, but so is the Mafia, and all the other criminal organizations.  the law enforcement know who these people are.  even if that theory is correct, i don't think she would be un-reachable.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:04:42 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think whoever has NH got scared and needed to send a message to these kids, i mean why are all of them not saying anything, i doubt all 5 suspects had a signifigant part in this kidnapping, they are scared for there lives.

You could be right. I guess I am just one of those ppl who believes things usually have simple answers, and not as wild and far fetched as you would see in a TV movie. Generally with almost any crime its simple. This case though has had so many twists and turns its hard to say. The fact to me is all we really know is she was last seen with the 3 boys, lead to the beach with Joran (by his mothers statement) and never seen again.
I hope she is alive, and understand her mothers need to believe she might be. My own son was kidnapped and you ALWAYS hold out hope for the best outcome. I was one of the fortunate few who had the good outcome. I hope she is as fortunate as I was.
sorry to hear that you had to go through that...but am VERY GLAD that you had a positive outcome...

This is what I think...I think that either Joran and Natalee saw something that they were not supposed to see...and whomever was doing this illegal act, took Natalee and told Joren, if you tell anybody, I will kill you and your family...OR... Somebody has it out for Paulos Van Der Sloot...and they kidnapped Natalee (there is a rumor that a ransom has been paid by the Holloways and Twittys and that they are just waiting on them to turn over Natalee)and framing the Van Der Sloots...

Last one could also have something to do with one of the Holloway/Twitty father or step father....or that company that provided the private jet..(someone said that that company had had one of their workers kidnapped and the company paid a ransom and got the worker back)...

ALL SPECULATION...AND HOPING SHE IS ALIVE!

Thanks waiting. Where did you hear about a ransom and what not? Thats very promising if its true.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:05:45 AM
Quote from: "Faith"
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............
I remember that...but have not heard anything about them doing DNA testing...funny thing about that site...there was a picture on one of the sites (young republican, I think) that had that picture and another picture of where something had happened in the past..and it was clear that it was the same picture with items added to the picture to make it look authentic...the site has since been removed...so I can not give you a link...sorry


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:07:25 AM
momto5...let me see if I can find it


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 07:08:20 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............
I remember that...but have not heard anything about them doing DNA testing...funny thing about that site...there was a picture on one of the sites (young republican, I think) that had that picture and another picture of where something had happened in the past..and it was clear that it was the same picture with items added to the picture to make it look authentic...the site has since been removed...so I can not give you a link...sorry


I did not see that.... Maybe a set up...Hmmm


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:09:35 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............
I remember that...but have not heard anything about them doing DNA testing...funny thing about that site...there was a picture on one of the sites (young republican, I think) that had that picture and another picture of where something had happened in the past..and it was clear that it was the same picture with items added to the picture to make it look authentic...the site has since been removed...so I can not give you a link...sorry

If I remember correctly the pictures were of a security guard shirt, some styrofome with teeth marks and a can of lysol? It was something in an aerosol bottle. I think there was a pair of sunglasses also but could be wrong. It was on the geocities site republican something sorry I dont have a link.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 07:14:39 AM
What about the guy who said he saw two men taking a girl, on the beach, against her will?  Maybe Joran dropped her off at the beach for a pick up and got Dad to come and pick him up. I remember someone saw him at McD's at three in the morning.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:18:44 AM
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:19:46 AM
Quote from: "Faith"
What about the guy who said he saw two men taking a girl, on the beach, against her will?  Maybe Joran dropped her off at the beach for a pick up and got Dad to come and pick him up. I remember someone saw him at McD's at three in the morning.

Someone posted on a website that his father was seen at 3am at mcdonalds. We know from their own statements that he was in fact at mcdonalds at 11pm. I am not sure if the 3am is simply a rumor from playing telephone (as in u say something to one person by the time it gets to the 20th person times have changed). I could be wrong though.

The two men on the beach taking a girl I dont believe has been confirmed either.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:19:46 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............
I remember that...but have not heard anything about them doing DNA testing...funny thing about that site...there was a picture on one of the sites (young republican, I think) that had that picture and another picture of where something had happened in the past..and it was clear that it was the same picture with items added to the picture to make it look authentic...the site has since been removed...so I can not give you a link...sorry

If I remember correctly the pictures were of a security guard shirt, some styrofome with teeth marks and a can of lysol? It was something in an aerosol bottle. I think there was a pair of sunglasses also but could be wrong. It was on the geocities site republican something sorry I dont have a link.
this is the same picture that looked fake ...same site..it has been taken down


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:20:40 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............
I remember that...but have not heard anything about them doing DNA testing...funny thing about that site...there was a picture on one of the sites (young republican, I think) that had that picture and another picture of where something had happened in the past..and it was clear that it was the same picture with items added to the picture to make it look authentic...the site has since been removed...so I can not give you a link...sorry

If I remember correctly the pictures were of a security guard shirt, some styrofome with teeth marks and a can of lysol? It was something in an aerosol bottle. I think there was a pair of sunglasses also but could be wrong. It was on the geocities site republican something sorry I dont have a link.
this is the same picture that looked fake ...same site..it has been taken down

awww coool ty for the info. Didnt know itd been taken down.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 07:24:29 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!


All of these ,I thought, were reported on TV ( with the exception of the basement theory). The most amazing of these ,to me, was the Diario guy reporting his escapade on FOX LIVE . He hs been interviewed many times since then, even last night, but not a word since.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:26:35 AM
Quote from: "Faith"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!


All of these ,I thought, were reported on TV ( with the exception of the basement theory). The most amazing of these ,to me, was the Diario guy reporting his escapade on FOX LIVE . He hs been interviewed many times since then, even last night, but not a word since.
EXACTLY...maybe they made him shut his mouth in fear of them hearing it and causing harm to Natalee....OR...he is just a fruitcake...ha ha...I am leaning toward the first. :lol:


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 07:26:54 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 07:29:19 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!


All of these ,I thought, were reported on TV ( with the exception of the basement theory). The most amazing of these ,to me, was the Diario guy reporting his escapade on FOX LIVE . He hs been interviewed many times since then, even last night, but not a word since.
EXACTLY...maybe they made him shut his mouth in fear of them hearing it and causing harm to Natalee....OR...he is just a fruitcake...ha ha...I am leaning toward the first. :lol:


Those were my thought's as well. Let's hope that is true and she is still alive. Remember her Mother said other arrest's are coming..........


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:31:07 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!

Thanks for trying to find the link. I really hope she is found alive, but each passing day I think there is less hope she will be. Like I said I can completely understand her mothers need to hope she is. I just hope that she isnt actually paying any ransom without solid leads. I know how desperate you can get in a situation like that and it is easy for con artists to get ya.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:32:14 AM
Quote from: "Faith"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!


All of these ,I thought, were reported on TV ( with the exception of the basement theory). The most amazing of these ,to me, was the Diario guy reporting his escapade on FOX LIVE . He hs been interviewed many times since then, even last night, but not a word since.
EXACTLY...maybe they made him shut his mouth in fear of them hearing it and causing harm to Natalee....OR...he is just a fruitcake...ha ha...I am leaning toward the first. :lol:


Those were my thought's as well. Let's hope that is true and she is still alive. Remember her Mother said other arrest's are coming..........
That woman is amazing!!  She has such conviction!!  I firmly believe that she knows so much more than she is telling...and the other night when she said on FOX that she felt that Natalee had been kidnapped and still on the island...I felt it...deep...and believed it!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 07:32:43 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


Unless the site owner like Dan posted the information himself I wouldnt put much stock into it because anyone that knows about a ransom isnt going to risk Natalies life on a blog.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 07:32:51 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


I remeber it here as well and also the discussion about kidnapping insurance had been taken out on Natalie before her trip. I did read up on this and a lot of  international  travelers do take this kind of insurance. It covers ransom, etc..........


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:34:22 AM
Quote from: "Faith"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


I remeber it here as well and also the discussion about kidnapping insurance had been taken out on Natalie before her trip. I did read up on this and a lot of  international  travelers do take this kind of insurance. It covers ransom, etc..........

I read a few of the messages on the insurance also. Was it finally actually confirmed they took out this insurance on her? I didnt see an answer when it was discussed.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:35:18 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


Unless the site owner like Dan posted the information himself I wouldnt put much stock into it because anyone that knows about a ransom isnt going to risk Natalies life on a blog.
Let's hope so...you and I both know that some ppl just don't think!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 07:35:36 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
[Those were my thought's as well. Let's hope that is true and she is still alive. Remember her Mother said other arrest's are coming That woman is amazing!!  She has such conviction!!  I firmly believe that she knows so much more than she is telling...and the other night when she said on FOX that she felt that Natalee had been kidnapped and still on the island...I felt it...deep...and believed it!


Its great you believe that as no mother will ever admit their child is not alive until they see the body, unfortunately even the father thinks she is gone and chances point to foul play.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Curiosity on June 25, 2005, 07:35:51 AM
Good morning....it sure was hard to catch up all the pages that have been posted since last night!

OK...did Joran lie again. Here is a link to the article on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/25/aruba.missing/index.html

Notice the very last line:   Anita Van Der Sloot, the mother of Joran Van Der Sloot and wife of Paul Van Der Sloot, said her son had also changed his story and admitted being alone with Holloway on the beach, saying he left her there because she wanted to stay there.

It's the part in bold I'm referring to.....does anyone really beleive that a an 18 yr old girl in a foreign land, who has to board a plane soon.....would want to stay on a desolate dark beach by herself? I saw the beach scene at night on Greta's segment last night. I don't beleive this at all. Looks like another lie to me!


OK, on a more positive note, I saw on FOX last night that the Texas search and rescue were using a map to make grids for the search.....searching full grids before moving to the next. Sounds like this group has a plan that's better than the randomness done to date based on lies and rumors.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 07:36:27 AM
FOX news just reported that official's think or know ( I did not catch the word) that Natalie has been murdered.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: MiMi on June 25, 2005, 07:36:42 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............
I remember that...but have not heard anything about them doing DNA testing...funny thing about that site...there was a picture on one of the sites (young republican, I think) that had that picture and another picture of where something had happened in the past..and it was clear that it was the same picture with items added to the picture to make it look authentic...the site has since been removed...so I can not give you a link...sorry

If I remember correctly the pictures were of a security guard shirt, some styrofome with teeth marks and a can of lysol? It was something in an aerosol bottle. I think there was a pair of sunglasses also but could be wrong. It was on the geocities site republican something sorry I dont have a link.
this is the same picture that looked fake ...same site..it has been taken down

awww coool ty for the info. Didnt know itd been taken down.


Is this the site you are looking for?


http://www.geocities.com/proud_college_republican/


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:38:44 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Faith"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


I remeber it here as well and also the discussion about kidnapping insurance had been taken out on Natalie before her trip. I did read up on this and a lot of  international  travelers do take this kind of insurance. It covers ransom, etc..........

I read a few of the messages on the insurance also. Was it finally actually confirmed they took out this insurance on her? I didnt see an answer when it was discussed.
while trying to catch up, I saw that about the insurance also.....I haven't heard any confirmation on that though.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 07:39:05 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Good morning....it sure was hard to catch up all the pages that have been posted since last night!

OK...did Joran lie again. Here is a link to the article on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/25/aruba.missing/index.html

Notice the very last line:   Anita Van Der Sloot, the mother of Joran Van Der Sloot and wife of Paul Van Der Sloot, said her son had also changed his story and admitted being alone with Holloway on the beach, saying he left her there because she wanted to stay there.

It's the part in bold I'm referring to.....does anyone really beleive that a an 18 yr old girl in a foreign land, who has to board a plane soon.....would want to stay on a desolate dark beach by herself? I saw the beach scene at night on Greta's segment last night. I don't beleive this at all. Looks like another lie to me!


OK, on a more positive note, I saw on FOX last night that the Texas search and rescue were using a map to make grids for the search.....searching full grids before moving to the next. Sounds like this group has a plan that's better than the randomness done to date based on lies and rumors.


Joran is a liar.  Nothing that comes out that kids mouth is the truth.

Regarding the texas search team, they are starting in areas of possible sites that havent been searched yet as well as grids in the ocean.  Then they are going to retrack places that have already been searched.  And just eliminate places one at a time.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:41:10 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Good morning....it sure was hard to catch up all the pages that have been posted since last night!

OK...did Joran lie again. Here is a link to the article on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/25/aruba.missing/index.html

Notice the very last line:   Anita Van Der Sloot, the mother of Joran Van Der Sloot and wife of Paul Van Der Sloot, said her son had also changed his story and admitted being alone with Holloway on the beach, saying he left her there because she wanted to stay there.

It's the part in bold I'm referring to.....does anyone really beleive that a an 18 yr old girl in a foreign land, who has to board a plane soon.....would want to stay on a desolate dark beach by herself? I saw the beach scene at night on Greta's segment last night. I don't beleive this at all. Looks like another lie to me!


OK, on a more positive note, I saw on FOX last night that the Texas search and rescue were using a map to make grids for the search.....searching full grids before moving to the next. Sounds like this group has a plan that's better than the randomness done to date based on lies and rumors.

Good morning! This board is hard to catch up with thats for sure. I usually just read the last few pages myself I cant read them all lol.
Looks to me like she just expanded on what she said in gretas interview. I speculate that is the story he told dear ole mom when she came home and most likely asked what in the hell did you do while I was gone? He probably said something like oh mom nothing, I went out with this american girl and I left her on the beach alone she wanted to stay there so I came home. Im just obviously guessing here. I try to think what my dearest teenagers would tell me and go from there.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:42:16 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
[Those were my thought's as well. Let's hope that is true and she is still alive. Remember her Mother said other arrest's are coming That woman is amazing!!  She has such conviction!!  I firmly believe that she knows so much more than she is telling...and the other night when she said on FOX that she felt that Natalee had been kidnapped and still on the island...I felt it...deep...and believed it!


Its great you believe that as no mother will ever admit their child is not alive until they see the body, unfortunately even the father thinks she is gone and chances point to foul play.
I firmly believe in a mother's intuition....
there was a mother near here that stated on camera that she just knew that her son was dead after he went missing...he was found a few days later dead...elizabeth smart's mom...believed she was alive even after a year...and she came up alive...the boy scout in Utah...same thing...found alive a few days later...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Curiosity on June 25, 2005, 07:43:03 AM
I also wanted to add that according to the CNN video (available on same page as linked in last post), that it would be  very unlikely that Natalee was disposed of at sea. Watch the video for the reasons why. The video implied that the most likely place for a body was on Aruba itself. I'm pointing this out because of the speculations about dumping her in the ocean...or ones like I had that she might have drowned. Guess I'm wrong.

I also had a thought after hearing about the three boys that were found in a car trunk in NJ. I wonder if the police shouldn't put up a road block to check car trunks in Aruba?  It wouldn't be that far fetched for someone to keep a body in a trunk until it's safe to hide. Again....a strange idea....but who would have guessed that those poor little boys would end up in a car trunk?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 07:45:35 AM
Quote from: "Faith"
FOX news just reported that official's think or know ( I did not catch the word) that Natalie has been murdered.


is this a joke, if it is its not funny


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:46:43 AM
Quote from: "MiMi"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "Faith"
Good Morning.......Something has been bothering me............Does anyone remember seeing the guard's shirt along with a few other things that were found near the beach? I wonder if those were tested for DNA,etc.............
I remember that...but have not heard anything about them doing DNA testing...funny thing about that site...there was a picture on one of the sites (young republican, I think) that had that picture and another picture of where something had happened in the past..and it was clear that it was the same picture with items added to the picture to make it look authentic...the site has since been removed...so I can not give you a link...sorry

If I remember correctly the pictures were of a security guard shirt, some styrofome with teeth marks and a can of lysol? It was something in an aerosol bottle. I think there was a pair of sunglasses also but could be wrong. It was on the geocities site republican something sorry I dont have a link.
this is the same picture that looked fake ...same site..it has been taken down

awww coool ty for the info. Didnt know itd been taken down.


Is this the site you are looking for?


http://www.geocities.com/proud_college_republican/
yep...that's the one...thank you...I had heard it was taken down...glad it wasn't!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:47:22 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Faith"
FOX news just reported that official's think or know ( I did not catch the word) that Natalie has been murdered.


is this a joke, if it is its not funny

Last night I believe they simply said they were pursueing this as a murder. Natalees parents and searches are still looking for her alive or dead and holding out hope for a safe return.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: no x it on June 25, 2005, 07:47:30 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Faith"
FOX news just reported that official's think or know ( I did not catch the word) that Natalie has been murdered.


is this a joke, if it is its not funny


details, please...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: waitingtoknow on June 25, 2005, 07:52:44 AM
who knows...unless they have found some evidence that we don't know about...I don't see how they can just speculate...but then again...these suspects are in jail on speculations basically...so, ?????

anyways...it was very nice talk to you all....I need to go...hope to see you all later with GOOD NEWS....take care  :D






How do they expect us to figure out the puzzle if they keep changing the picture on the box??


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 07:53:56 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
I also wanted to add that according to the CNN video (available on same page as linked in last post), that it would be  very unlikely that Natalee was disposed of at sea. Watch the video for the reasons why. The video implied that the most likely place for a body was on Aruba itself. I'm pointing this out because of the speculations about dumping her in the ocean...or ones like I had that she might have drowned. Guess I'm wrong.

I also had a thought after hearing about the three boys that were found in a car trunk in NJ. I wonder if the police shouldn't put up a road block to check car trunks in Aruba?  It wouldn't be that far fetched for someone to keep a body in a trunk until it's safe to hide. Again....a strange idea....but who would have guessed that those poor little boys would end up in a car trunk?


I saw that too and had been led previously to believe if a body was dumped at sea it wouldnt return to the island. Guess that theory or rumor was wrong. Atleast according to cnn's interview last night. As for the trunks well I thought that also but then thought its been what almost 4 wks? Wouldnt that be very stinky?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 07:54:38 AM
Quote from: "no x it"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Faith"
FOX news just reported that official's think or know ( I did not catch the word) that Natalie has been murdered.


is this a joke, if it is its not funny


details, please...


Im reading the fox news website, it states they think she was murdered.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160654,00.html


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: MsPooh on June 25, 2005, 08:06:27 AM
I know this was stated as a rumor but here goes..have we heard anything else about the mystery person that supposedly was on the same flight as Natalee but did not come back?Now second thing...I have been brainstorming since this whole thing started (haven't we all right?) and for some reason I have a little (gonna get flamed here by someone I just know it) thought that MAYBE by the off chance these guys were in fact the last ones SEEN with her but not  the LAST ones WITH her..maybe she did make it back to the hotel and one of the guys from MB saw her (alot of them were by the pool until 5 a.m.) and he was the only one that did, walks up to her trying to mack on her and maybe they go somewhere else then things go wrong..other kids having fun and not noticing anything, have they even looked into the circle of students that went?Please don't be too hard on me for this one, it's been a long night.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Faith on June 25, 2005, 08:08:12 AM
Quote from: "no x it"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Faith"
FOX news just reported that official's think or know ( I did not catch the word) that Natalie has been murdered.


is this a joke, if it is its not funny


details, please...


I'm sorry, I had to leave and just got back.
That is not something to joke about!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RichinTx on June 25, 2005, 08:10:55 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


Unless the site owner like Dan posted the information himself I wouldnt put much stock into it because anyone that knows about a ransom isnt going to risk Natalies life on a blog.


Yes, because everyone that posts on blogs has good common sense..
[Dr. Evil] Rrrrrriiiiiiiiigghtt[/Dr. Evil]


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: sandy on June 25, 2005, 08:10:59 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "no x it"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Faith"
FOX news just reported that official's think or know ( I did not catch the word) that Natalie has been murdered.


is this a joke, if it is its not funny


details, please...


Im reading the fox news website, it states they think she was murdered.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160654,00.html


If you read the opening page of SM it has had this noted since last night


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Curiosity on June 25, 2005, 08:14:41 AM
Quote from: "MsPooh"
I know this was stated as a rumor but here goes..have we heard anything else about the mystery person that supposedly was on the same flight as Natalee but did not come back?Now second thing...I have been brainstorming since this whole thing started (haven't we all right?) and for some reason I have a little (gonna get flamed here by someone I just know it) thought that MAYBE by the off chance these guys were in fact the last ones SEEN with her but not  the LAST ones WITH her..maybe she did make it back to the hotel and one of the guys from MB saw her (alot of them were by the pool until 5 a.m.) and he was the only one that did, walks up to her trying to mack on her and maybe they go somewhere else then things go wrong..other kids having fun and not noticing anything, have they even looked into the circle of students that went?Please don't be too hard on me for this one, it's been a long night.


I don't see how she could have made it back to the hotel without her friends seeing her. I beleive it was Dash who told us on this board that several of the group were around the pool until the wee hours of the morning. On the otherhand, Greta did say last night that if Joren wasn't lying that the idea of someone else intersepting Natalie wasn't out of the question. But if that is true, the investigation is going in the wrong direction.....hope that's not the case or her whereabouts have less of a chance of being found out.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:16:26 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Quote from: "MsPooh"
I know this was stated as a rumor but here goes..have we heard anything else about the mystery person that supposedly was on the same flight as Natalee but did not come back?Now second thing...I have been brainstorming since this whole thing started (haven't we all right?) and for some reason I have a little (gonna get flamed here by someone I just know it) thought that MAYBE by the off chance these guys were in fact the last ones SEEN with her but not  the LAST ones WITH her..maybe she did make it back to the hotel and one of the guys from MB saw her (alot of them were by the pool until 5 a.m.) and he was the only one that did, walks up to her trying to mack on her and maybe they go somewhere else then things go wrong..other kids having fun and not noticing anything, have they even looked into the circle of students that went?Please don't be too hard on me for this one, it's been a long night.


I don't see how she could have made it back to the hotel without her friends seeing her. I beleive it was Dash who told us on this board that several of the group were around the pool until the wee hours of the morning. On the otherhand, Greta did say last night that if Joren wasn't lying that the idea of someone else intersepting Natalie wasn't out of the question. But if that is true, the investigation is going in the wrong direction.....hope that's not the case or her whereabouts have less of a chance of being found out.


If Joran didnt have anything to do with it then there would be no reason to lie to authorities and change his story 3 times.  For Authorities to look in another direction would be a complete waste of time.  Innocent people dont need to concoct stories and fake alibis.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RichinTx on June 25, 2005, 08:17:30 AM
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
[Those were my thought's as well. Let's hope that is true and she is still alive. Remember her Mother said other arrest's are coming That woman is amazing!!  She has such conviction!!  I firmly believe that she knows so much more than she is telling...and the other night when she said on FOX that she felt that Natalee had been kidnapped and still on the island...I felt it...deep...and believed it!


Its great you believe that as no mother will ever admit their child is not alive until they see the body, unfortunately even the father thinks she is gone and chances point to foul play.
I firmly believe in a mother's intuition....
there was a mother near here that stated on camera that she just knew that her son was dead after he went missing...he was found a few days later dead...elizabeth smart's mom...believed she was alive even after a year...and she came up alive...the boy scout in Utah...same thing...found alive a few days later...



"SURVEY SAYS"......0   The Utah mother has stated that she was sure her son was dead. Thanks for playing...come again soon.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: MsPooh on June 25, 2005, 08:17:31 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Quote from: "MsPooh"
I know this was stated as a rumor but here goes..have we heard anything else about the mystery person that supposedly was on the same flight as Natalee but did not come back?Now second thing...I have been brainstorming since this whole thing started (haven't we all right?) and for some reason I have a little (gonna get flamed here by someone I just know it) thought that MAYBE by the off chance these guys were in fact the last ones SEEN with her but not  the LAST ones WITH her..maybe she did make it back to the hotel and one of the guys from MB saw her (alot of them were by the pool until 5 a.m.) and he was the only one that did, walks up to her trying to mack on her and maybe they go somewhere else then things go wrong..other kids having fun and not noticing anything, have they even looked into the circle of students that went?Please don't be too hard on me for this one, it's been a long night.


I don't see how she could have made it back to the hotel without her friends seeing her. I beleive it was Dash who told us on this board that several of the group were around the pool until the wee hours of the morning. On the otherhand, Greta did say last night that if Joren wasn't lying that the idea of someone else intersepting Natalie wasn't out of the question. But if that is true, the investigation is going in the wrong direction.....hope that's not the case or her whereabouts have less of a chance of being found out.


Easier to blame it on a local than to look within, we never know who we are dealing with no matter how long we have known them.And it has been done before even here in the U.S., under intense interrogation some have been known to fake a confession in the hopes that it will all be over soon,I would think even moreso for a 17 year old boy..but ya know he could be guilty as sin as well as the others.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Curiosity on June 25, 2005, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Quote from: "MsPooh"
I know this was stated as a rumor but here goes..have we heard anything else about the mystery person that supposedly was on the same flight as Natalee but did not come back?Now second thing...I have been brainstorming since this whole thing started (haven't we all right?) and for some reason I have a little (gonna get flamed here by someone I just know it) thought that MAYBE by the off chance these guys were in fact the last ones SEEN with her but not  the LAST ones WITH her..maybe she did make it back to the hotel and one of the guys from MB saw her (alot of them were by the pool until 5 a.m.) and he was the only one that did, walks up to her trying to mack on her and maybe they go somewhere else then things go wrong..other kids having fun and not noticing anything, have they even looked into the circle of students that went?Please don't be too hard on me for this one, it's been a long night.


I don't see how she could have made it back to the hotel without her friends seeing her. I beleive it was Dash who told us on this board that several of the group were around the pool until the wee hours of the morning. On the otherhand, Greta did say last night that if Joren wasn't lying that the idea of someone else intersepting Natalie wasn't out of the question. But if that is true, the investigation is going in the wrong direction.....hope that's not the case or her whereabouts have less of a chance of being found out.


If Joran didnt have anything to do with it then there would be no reason to lie to authorities and change his story 3 times.  For Authorities to look in another direction would be a complete waste of time.  Innocent people dont need to concoct stories and fake alibis.


I totally agree with you on this....there is NO reason to lie and make up stories if this had been the case. Good point!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 08:19:59 AM
Mornin all, here is a cup of coffee, cream and sugar available

I have been reading and one thing stuck out in my mind I saw. The last person seen with a missing person is not necc. a suspect according to my friend, WW.

But , WW's coffee shop patrons' theory was the last person/persons seen with a missing person ARE logical suspects. I concur, until proven different. I offer joran was not suspect at first. Only in the next day or 2 when the films were reveiwed from HI, and peripheral witnesses examined, did it come to light something in joran's and the bros kalpoe's story was amiss. This lead to the arrests 10 days later.


She offered several examples, I offer Susan Smith, 17-year-old Milagro Cunningham--who hid a girl in dumpster, Dahmer, Bundy. I am in no way comparing these people/killers to joran, but they all saw their victims last--and appeared to not be the "suspect" until further police work was done. Even with the history some of them had.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 08:20:08 AM
Quote from: "MsPooh"
I know this was stated as a rumor but here goes..have we heard anything else about the mystery person that supposedly was on the same flight as Natalee but did not come back?Now second thing...I have been brainstorming since this whole thing started (haven't we all right?) and for some reason I have a little (gonna get flamed here by someone I just know it) thought that MAYBE by the off chance these guys were in fact the last ones SEEN with her but not  the LAST ones WITH her..maybe she did make it back to the hotel and one of the guys from MB saw her (alot of them were by the pool until 5 a.m.) and he was the only one that did, walks up to her trying to mack on her and maybe they go somewhere else then things go wrong..other kids having fun and not noticing anything, have they even looked into the circle of students that went?Please don't be too hard on me for this one, it's been a long night.

Im not gonna slam you. At this point to me anyway we dont know anything that happened other then she left the bar and somehow according to Jorans mothers statement ended up alone on the beach with him. Whether thats true or not who knows? These guys in custody seem to like changing their story. That alone bothers me personally, bc with nothing to hide why would they?
I think it has been said that they have questioned all of the students on the trip. This case is confused, they are tight lipped in aruba, and it leaves room for so much speculation and rumor. I can only HOPE and pray that they actually know more then they are saying. IF natalee is in fact passed way her parents need closure. They need a place to lay her to rest so they can visit and grieve properly. If she is alive, she needs to come home already and return to the safety of her own home.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:21:24 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Quote from: "MsPooh"
I know this was stated as a rumor but here goes..have we heard anything else about the mystery person that supposedly was on the same flight as Natalee but did not come back?Now second thing...I have been brainstorming since this whole thing started (haven't we all right?) and for some reason I have a little (gonna get flamed here by someone I just know it) thought that MAYBE by the off chance these guys were in fact the last ones SEEN with her but not  the LAST ones WITH her..maybe she did make it back to the hotel and one of the guys from MB saw her (alot of them were by the pool until 5 a.m.) and he was the only one that did, walks up to her trying to mack on her and maybe they go somewhere else then things go wrong..other kids having fun and not noticing anything, have they even looked into the circle of students that went?Please don't be too hard on me for this one, it's been a long night.


I don't see how she could have made it back to the hotel without her friends seeing her. I beleive it was Dash who told us on this board that several of the group were around the pool until the wee hours of the morning. On the otherhand, Greta did say last night that if Joren wasn't lying that the idea of someone else intersepting Natalie wasn't out of the question. But if that is true, the investigation is going in the wrong direction.....hope that's not the case or her whereabouts have less of a chance of being found out.


If Joran didnt have anything to do with it then there would be no reason to lie to authorities and change his story 3 times.  For Authorities to look in another direction would be a complete waste of time.  Innocent people dont need to concoct stories and fake alibis.


I totally agree with you on this....there is NO reason to lie and make up stories if this had been the case. Good point!


If people would just remember this point they would stop going off into slave trade land and the boys could be innocent land.  Changing of stories and fake alibis is what investigators look for because its Red Flag Number one that they are on the right path.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: sandy on June 25, 2005, 08:24:16 AM
[quote
I totally agree with you on this....there is NO reason to lie and make up stories if this had been the case. Good point![/quote]

But maybe innocent people who are young and don't know how serious the situation is and are already caught out for leaving home after curfew - and think she is going to turn up after a few days in a crack housem anyway - maybe they tell a neat little lie thinking it will take the heat off them and everything will be OK in a short while anyway - then, a week later they get arrested and have to stick with that lie.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 08:25:17 AM
Quote from: "RichinTx"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


Unless the site owner like Dan posted the information himself I wouldnt put much stock into it because anyone that knows about a ransom isnt going to risk Natalies life on a blog.


Yes, because everyone that posts on blogs has good common sense..
[Dr. Evil] Rrrrrriiiiiiiiigghtt[/Dr. Evil]


By the Twitty/Holloway's own admissions, they have been ready to pay any ransom, (and almost did pay a ransom for the wrong girl after being mislead) and said should she be in a crackhouse ( based on bros kalpoe's statements) or anywhere, they were willing to get her and get her home. This is just another twist on the truth turned rumor/lie, some have grasped onto for one reason or another.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: tkubi7 on June 25, 2005, 08:26:33 AM
I have been glued to this computer for days now, almost to the point of divorce. I have listened to many theories and opinions as well as forming those of my one. The one constant that has stood out with me is Beth Halloway-Twitty. She is the epitome of a mother. She is the hero in all of this tragedy. With her unrelenting love for her daughter and her stoic resolve to bring her daughter home, she has somehow gone on day after day and managed to draw the attention of the world to this matter. She stops at nothing and will let nothing deter her. She refuses to crumble and rejects defeat. Some call it a failure to face reality, some say it's a self rightous move to protect her own reputation. I feel, after looking into her eyes during an interview, that BHT is the mother that puts NOTHING before her children. Her pain is secondary. I have watched these days take a toll on her and I just want to say Beth....You are my hero.
I pray for Natalees return and strength for the family through the days ahead.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:27:20 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Mornin all, here is a cup of coffee, cream and sugar available

I have been reading and one thing stuck out in my mind I saw. The last person seen with a missing person is not necc. a suspect according to my friend, WW.

But , WW's coffee shop patrons' theory was the last person/persons seen with a missing person ARE logical suspects. I concur, until proven different. I offer joran was not suspect at first. Only in the next day or 2 when the films were reveiwed from HI, and peripheral witnesses examined, did it come to light something in joran's and the bros kalpoe's story was amiss. This lead to the arrests 10 days later.


She offered several examples, I offer Susan Smith, 17-year-old Milagro Cunningham--who hid a girl in dumpster, Dahmer, Bundy. I am in no way comparing these people/killers to joran, but they all saw their victims last--and appeared to not be the "suspect" until further police work was done. Even with the history some of them had.


Alot of people are trying to compile theories by vearing off path and saying yea but what if, yea but what if.  If you think with a logical investigative mind the clues keep spinning right back to Joran.  He pointed to the guards, it spun right back to him, he lied about where they dropped her off, it came right back to him.  He was last with her, he lied about where he was and he wanted his friends to create a false alibi.  when they were arrested they balked at the story.  Even after they admitted they didnt drop her off at the holiday inn joran was still creating false stories.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 08:27:41 AM
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Mornin all, here is a cup of coffee, cream and sugar available

I have been reading and one thing stuck out in my mind I saw. The last person seen with a missing person is not necc. a suspect according to my friend, WW.

But , WW's coffee shop patrons' theory was the last person/persons seen with a missing person ARE logical suspects. I concur, until proven different. I offer joran was not suspect at first. Only in the next day or 2 when the films were reveiwed from HI, and peripheral witnesses examined, did it come to light something in joran's and the bros kalpoe's story was amiss. This lead to the arrests 10 days later.


She offered several examples, I offer Susan Smith, 17-year-old Milagro Cunningham--who hid a girl in dumpster, Dahmer, Bundy. I am in no way comparing these people/killers to joran, but they all saw their victims last--and appeared to not be the "suspect" until further police work was done. Even with the history some of them had.

Morning North Kackalacky girl. Im in NC also. Ill take some coffee and offer you a blueberry muffin!
I posted earlier my cousin was missing for a yr and there was suspicion his friends did something to him etc etc. He was supposed to be at their place and what not. They were drunk etc etc. Anyway turned out he had crashed his car and sadly passed away and had been there for the whole yr. The thing is his friends NEVER changed their story or lied about it. I cant get passed the fact these guys have lied from day 1. even if the story the brothers are telling now is true, still why lie to begin with?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 08:28:16 AM
Quote from: "tkubi7"
I have been glued to this computer for days now, almost to the point of divorce. I have listened to many theories and opinions as well as forming those of my one. The one constant that has stood out with me is Beth Halloway-Twitty. She is the epitome of a mother. She is the hero in all of this tragedy. With her unrelenting love for her daughter and her stoic resolve to bring her daughter home, she has somehow gone on day after day and managed to draw the attention of the world to this matter. She stops at nothing and will let nothing deter her. She refuses to crumble and rejects defeat. Some call it a failure to face reality, some say it's a self rightous move to protect her own reputation. I feel, after looking into her eyes during an interview, that BHT is the mother that puts NOTHING before her children. Her pain is secondary. I have watched these days take a toll on her and I just want to say Beth....You are my hero.
I pray for Natalees return and strength for the family through the days ahead.


I do as well! :(  :(  for Beth but hoping for a miracle at the same time.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:28:27 AM
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:28:31 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
[quote
I totally agree with you on this....there is NO reason to lie and make up stories if this had been the case. Good point

But maybe innocent people who are young and don't know how serious the situation is and are already caught out for leaving home after curfew - and think she is going to turn up after a few days in a crack housem anyway - maybe they tell a neat little lie thinking it will take the heat off them and everything will be OK in a short while anyway - then, a week later they get arrested and have to stick with that lie.
'

So they lied to cover up a murder so they wouldnt get put on restriction. ok.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: MsPooh on June 25, 2005, 08:29:26 AM
I know from being a mom that my kids have lied to me thinking that it would be all cut and dried all tied up with a little bow on top,and I have had to go around the world to get the truth out of them, they think they are smarter than me ha! granted it has never been for anything as serious as this, but being mom they expect us to love them no matter what and we definetly do that no matter how mad we get at them at times.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:30:18 AM
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 08:30:38 AM
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I think last night someone clarfied why. They said that if someone dies in a commision of a crime that was planned (IE rape and kidnapping) even if it is accidental it is charged as premeditated murder. So in other words, if they took her knowing they were going to rape her, or she went unwillingly or didnt let her go when she asked then died even accidentally, itd still be considered premeditated murder.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:34:51 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.



Yes, I did.  But my point is still valid.  The comment is regarding why they are defining "murder" without a body.  Basically, without evidence of any kind.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: sandy on June 25, 2005, 08:35:25 AM
Premeditated also applies to a case where the victim has been drugged in advance.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:36:13 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I think last night someone clarfied why. They said that if someone dies in a commision of a crime that was planned (IE rape and kidnapping) even if it is accidental it is charged as premeditated murder. So in other words, if they took her knowing they were going to rape her, or she went unwillingly or didnt let her go when she asked then died even accidentally, itd still be considered premeditated murder.


That makes some sense.  I just can't see Nat's Mom going for that without more concrete proof.  My feeling is Aruba wants Beth off the Island and declaring a supposed murder gives some closure so other people will move on.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: sandy on June 25, 2005, 08:37:35 AM
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Title: Good morning Monkey people
Post by: RB on June 25, 2005, 08:37:43 AM
I will be opening a fresh thread for you in about 10 minutes.  Just wanted to give you the heads up :)


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: MsPooh on June 25, 2005, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.


Key word here for me is probably, I take this to mean that they have probable cause to state this based on what the boys have said..but there is no body and no proof that she has been murdered..if that is the case the odds are probable that she is alive, this is the most confusing case that I have been wrapped up with in a very long time.Until we see her come home one way or another  the probability factor is very high for anything.I
feel that LE will say anything at this point to make it look like they are working very hard to solve this case, which they probably are.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:38:50 AM
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.



Yes, I did.  But my point is still valid.  The comment is regarding why they are defining "murder" without a body.  Basically, without evidence of any kind.


What makes you think they dont have any evidence.  just because we dont know what it is doesnt mean there isnt any.  They have to have pretty good reason to hold 5 people including a judge without any evidence.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 08:38:59 AM
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I think last night someone clarfied why. They said that if someone dies in a commision of a crime that was planned (IE rape and kidnapping) even if it is accidental it is charged as premeditated murder. So in other words, if they took her knowing they were going to rape her, or she went unwillingly or didnt let her go when she asked then died even accidentally, itd still be considered premeditated murder.


That makes some sense.  I just can't see Nat's Mom going for that without more concrete proof.  My feeling is Aruba wants Beth off the Island and declaring a supposed murder gives some closure so other people will move on.

Oh I am sure they want Beth and her family to go home. As long as she is there I think she has shown she will continue to be on the news and draw attention to her daughter. The only way she is leaving is with Natalee dead or alive. Their best bet is to try and find her daughter. Otherwise I simply dont see her willingly leaving that island.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: KackyLacky on June 25, 2005, 08:39:05 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Mornin all, here is a cup of coffee, cream and sugar available

I have been reading and one thing stuck out in my mind I saw. The last person seen with a missing person is not necc. a suspect according to my friend, WW.

But , WW's coffee shop patrons' theory was the last person/persons seen with a missing person ARE logical suspects. I concur, until proven different. I offer joran was not suspect at first. Only in the next day or 2 when the films were reveiwed from HI, and peripheral witnesses examined, did it come to light something in joran's and the bros kalpoe's story was amiss. This lead to the arrests 10 days later.


She offered several examples, I offer Susan Smith, 17-year-old Milagro Cunningham--who hid a girl in dumpster, Dahmer, Bundy. I am in no way comparing these people/killers to joran, but they all saw their victims last--and appeared to not be the "suspect" until further police work was done. Even with the history some of them had.

Morning North Kackalacky girl. Im in NC also. Ill take some coffee and offer you a blueberry muffin!
I posted earlier my cousin was missing for a yr and there was suspicion his friends did something to him etc etc. He was supposed to be at their place and what not. They were drunk etc etc. Anyway turned out he had crashed his car and sadly passed away and had been there for the whole yr. The thing is his friends NEVER changed their story or lied about it. I cant get passed the fact these guys have lied from day 1. even if the story the brothers are telling now is true, still why lie to begin with?


oooooohhhhhhhhh blueberry muffins, my fav! Thanks, extra coffee for you!   :D  :D

I know, the ever changing stories. Locally we had a 12 yr old go missing, no one changed stories, except for the man who had found the boy's bike. For some reason, this jerk, couldn't remember were in the yard he saw it first or when he saw it first. This jerk hid in plain site as well, one of the leaders of the search team, wroking hard on getting the word out and all. 2 weeks later the 12 yr old was found in a corn field by some immigrants, and guess who was most suspicious to LE at first glance. But, thank God, evidence proved the child had just recently been placed there, and it was determined the original creep had kept the boy dead, under his bed until he thought the coast was clear several weeks later.  BTW, the creep was here, having skipped bail in VA on a sodomy charge. He confessed when the DP was put on the table, and although he was supposed to allocute at sentencing, he refused--only causing the family more pain. This family trusted him right up until LE told them the creep's story was no longer the same about 2 weeks after the disappearance. The changing of the stories, it being hard to keep up a lie for long, almost will always bring out the truth.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.


Oh I know. We have absolutely no idea what they have been told. For all we know any of the people in custody could have confessed by now. Or they could have had forensics come back on anything they took from their houses. We really arent going to know until they are charged.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.



Yes, I did.  But my point is still valid.  The comment is regarding why they are defining "murder" without a body.  Basically, without evidence of any kind.


What makes you think they dont have any evidence.  just because we dont know what it is doesnt mean there isnt any.  They have to have pretty good reason to hold 5 people including a judge without any evidence.


Why the attitude?  I am only giving an honest opinion about why Aruba wants to use murder.  They want to close it and move on.

I don't believe they need a lot of evidence to detain and hold people, as evidenced already.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Curiosity on June 25, 2005, 08:40:59 AM
Another tidbit I thought about based on Greta's report last night. Greta did a tour of the known places both known and the latest Joren lie. She started with the casino where Joren and dad were gambling that night and ended up on the beach north of the Mariott at night. During that tour, she said the drive to Joren's home was 10-12 minutes. Yet Joren's latest story is that he left Natalee on the beach and walked home???? Even if I drive at a slow speed of say 20 miles an hour......it covers a lot of miles. Drive at something like 45 or 50 mph and the idea of walking home seems far fetched...especially in the dark! I just can't see the part about walking home as truthful, especially if he was in class by morning!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: pinemeadows on June 25, 2005, 08:41:29 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.


I must have missed this to...was that this morning?  Last night, Ruben T was saying the authorities are operating under the premise she is alive.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:41:39 AM
The point everyone is missing is that you dont know what evidence they found in the cars, on the computer, via cell phone calls, etc etc etc. They have been working around the clock and have5 people in custody and are welcoming a search team from texas.  Aruba does not report evidence like we do here in America.  They know everything pretty much except where she is.   Fox news has probably been told about 10% of all the information that the authorities have gathered.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:42:40 AM
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.


I must have missed this to...was that this morning?  Last night, Ruben T was saying the authorities are operating under the premise she is alive.


You can go to the fox news website there is a heading stating they belive she was killed.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:43:32 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.


Oh I know. We have absolutely no idea what they have been told. For all we know any of the people in custody could have confessed by now. Or they could have had forensics come back on anything they took from their houses. We really arent going to know until they are charged.


Seems they are getting closer to a charge.  But I just wonder if it is a lot of smoke and mirrors.  Hoping beyond hope that there is a bigger conspiracy of human traficking and Nat is alive.

It's difficult to comprehend with such different law than ours.  In some ways it is preferable, but to us, baffling with the secrecy.  We are so used to having information, NOW.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: "Curiosity"
Another tidbit I thought about based on Greta's report last night. Greta did a tour of the known places both known and the latest Joren lie. She started with the casino where Joren and dad were gambling that night and ended up on the beach north of the Mariott at night. During that tour, she said the drive to Joren's home was 10-12 minutes. Yet Joren's latest story is that he left Natalee on the beach and walked home???? Even if I drive at a slow speed of say 20 miles an hour......it covers a lot of miles. Drive at something like 45 or 50 mph and the idea of walking home seems far fetched...especially in the dark! I just can't see the part about walking home as truthful, especially if he was in class by morning!

I dont believe for a moment he walked home. I tend to think thats where his father might come into the story. My thought pattern has been leaning towards that his father knew he was out. That he didnt sneak out. That the reason the brothers dropped him off at the beach was Joran already had a pre arranged ride home, and that the brothers knew he has a ride also. I think something went south on the beach, and his father knew or knew shortly after. That might be where the complicity comes in. If he knew and did nothing then he would be charged also.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: pinemeadows on June 25, 2005, 08:45:10 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
They know everything pretty much except where she is.   Fox news has probably been told about 10% of all the information that the authorities have gathered.


Right, except up until now they've been saying she could be alive; at least that's what they are saying.  Perhaps that's less painful for us all to hear.

I think what those boys and pops were involved in must be so horrifying that they themselves will probably never confess...and if anyone does, my bets are on the dad.  He is very very very afraid of something/someone, and I don't think it's just  LE.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RazzyBerry on June 25, 2005, 08:45:29 AM
Theres a new thread started.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:45:46 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
The point everyone is missing is that you dont know what evidence they found in the cars, on the computer, via cell phone calls, etc etc etc. They have been working around the clock and have5 people in custody and are welcoming a search team from texas.  Aruba does not report evidence like we do here in America.  They know everything pretty much except where she is.   Fox news has probably been told about 10% of all the information that the authorities have gathered.



I'm not missing the point.  I just don't believe the spoon fed media.  They (news)  are being told what Aruba wants them to hear.  I for one still think there is a bigger picture.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 25, 2005, 08:46:24 AM
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Theres a new thread started.


Thanks. :)  5 minutes and I'm locking this one...


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: MsPooh on June 25, 2005, 08:47:02 AM
Haven't I seen a  post on here about aruban laws, that if things are leaked concerning the investigation that the whole case can be thrown out?Maybe we should be glad in the fact that they aren't letting anything get out that has come out in forensic testing and so on that could harm the case.We are just used to a pretty quick outcome in most cases and knowing most of the information they gather as it comes out.


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: momto5 on June 25, 2005, 08:48:32 AM
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.


Oh I know. We have absolutely no idea what they have been told. For all we know any of the people in custody could have confessed by now. Or they could have had forensics come back on anything they took from their houses. We really arent going to know until they are charged.


Seems they are getting closer to a charge.  But I just wonder if it is a lot of smoke and mirrors.  Hoping beyond hope that there is a bigger conspiracy of human traficking and Nat is alive.

It's difficult to comprehend with such different law than ours.  In some ways it is preferable, but to us, baffling with the secrecy.  We are so used to having information, NOW.

Im actually more greatful now to be an american then before. Someone last night said on cnn if it happened here they wouldnt be in jail. There has to be probable cause, and they implied there was simply suspicion (atleast thats what aruban govt is saying). Im not saying they are innocent. Im just saying that I prferably would like to see someone held on something more then pure suspicion. That leaves alot of room for false arrest (again not saying in this case but in general look at the security guards for instance). As a citizen in our country I am GLAD they dont just get to go and arrest someone on pure suspicion. JMO


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:48:46 AM
Quote from: "MsPooh"
Haven't I seen a  post on here about aruban laws, that if things are leaked concerning the investigation that the whole case can be thrown out?Maybe we should be glad in the fact that they aren't letting anything get out that has come out in forensic testing and so on that could harm the case.We are just used to a pretty quick outcome in most cases and knowing most of the information they gather as it comes out.


Precisly.  We know squat! The news hounds have gotton it wrong so many times before...  I just don't believe murder unless it is a bona-fide, confession, forensics or a body.

Plus, why would Aruban officials leak that it was murder?  Other than to get closure?


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: Charmz on June 25, 2005, 08:50:07 AM
Quote from: "momto5"
Im actually more greatful now to be an american then before. Someone last night said on cnn if it happened here they wouldnt be in jail. There has to be probable cause, and they implied there was simply suspicion (atleast thats what aruban govt is saying). Im not saying they are innocent. Im just saying that I prferably would like to see someone held on something more then pure suspicion. That leaves alot of room for false arrest (again not saying in this case but in general look at the security guards for instance). As a citizen in our country I am GLAD they dont just get to go and arrest someone on pure suspicion. JMO



I couldn't agree with you more!


Title: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05
Post by: RB on June 25, 2005, 08:50:09 AM
This thread has been locked.  Please continue discussion here:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=335