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Good morning, folks!    Anyone hear anything new?

Facts: no
Rumors: plenty
:-)

what rumors seem likely to be based in some fact?

David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said police have scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the investigation, CNN reported.

Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. the morning Holloway disappeared and, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe about 40 minutes later that he had arrived

Good morning!

David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said police have scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the investigation, CNN reported.

Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. the morning Holloway disappeared and, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe about 40 minutes later that he had arrived

following on in the CNN article -


"I just think this goes to show that the story that Deepak and Satish are telling ... is substantiated by facts," Kock said.

Antonio Carlo, defense attorney for Joran Van Der Sloot, said Sunday his client was in good spirits, but was "shocked and disturbed" by his father's arrest.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/26/aruba.missing/index.html


substantiated by facts -  that's something new to this case! :lol:

Bendex, that's spooky.  I'm sorry that happened to your friend.  This is why I challenged the editor of Aruba Today to provide crime statistics and polls on crime victimization.  Rape is an underreported crime.  If the retired police officer Elio Nicolaas is any indication, some of the police there are more than willing to blame victims.  I'm not saying that the problem is worse there than elsewhere, it might be better, I just thought that there might be more of this kind of thing than they let on and that they might not deal with it well, which allows the same criminals to keep reoffending.  This is just in the area Natalie was supposedly left in.  Hmmmm.  Very unfortunate no matter how many or few victims there are.

They were claiming very low statistics for rape and those mainly being within the local population, like it's that neat.  I was suspicious.  When I saw that they just offer a total number of crimes and don't break them down by offense, that IS a coverup.  I'm not saying that there is more of a problem there than anywhere else, it's just the covering up statistics and having a veteran retired police officer blaming a victim is a bad sign.

Was that guy caught?

Please post sources for the following about Joran or retract:

pushed someone through a plate glass window

actually kicked younger brothers on regular basis

uses date rape drugs on multiple females (or even one)

lived in bachelor apt due to violence against brothers

These are all serious accusations given over and over without any sources.  Either give sources or retract these statements.

Good mornin' all. I am truly worried about what the next few days will hold. It appears to me that if they let Croes out of jail because all he had done was lied, then we can expect they will release JVDS, Deepak and Satish because all they have on them is their lies.

Well, scuse me, it's Sunday night, I have to go to an "underground party."

Monkey Business
Friday, June 24, 2005
By Greta Van Susteren


Too funny huh?  Here is link for the story - it's about the monkey next door to the PVDS house.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160602,00.html

On track with this, if I ever get any time, I'd like to know more about the crime there as well.  I know that the amigos were put in a NEW prison.  That's not to say the OLD prison was closed at all as the officials said the new one was attached to the old.  

So which is it?  How can it be a new prison when it's attached?  It sounds like it's nothing more than an addition to me.

Low crime rate?  Sure, that's why they built an annex to the prison. :?

interesting link to the crime rate increase in aruba
http://news.caribseek.com/Aruba/AM_Digital/article_15609.shtml

During the year, the Governments of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba improved prison staffing and capacity to address concerns by the Council of Europe's Committee for the Prevention of Torture. Authorities expanded prison activities, health care, and amenities, lessening inmate tensions. Prisoners also were eligible for early release. Both governments took steps to alleviate overcrowding. They completed renovations at the Rio Canario Detention Center on Curacao and expanded Aruba's Correctional Institute Aruba (KIA) prison to house 300 prisoners, up from 250. Despite these improvements, problems remained. On Curacao, illegal immigrants vandalized their barracks in protest over their treatment. On Aruba, 90 KIA prisoners, including 9 who sewed their mouths shut, held a hunger strike over prison conditions, including lack of recreational time and poor food. On Bonaire, the Chief Public Prosecutor ordered the release of a large number of detainees (mostly drug couriers arrested at the airport) from the Police Detention Center because of overcrowding and poor conditions. The Government of the Netherlands continued to provide assistance to improve prison conditions and management

Police make arrests in recent kidnapping in Barbados where several men forced a couple into a car.
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/06/27/kidnapping.shtml

It just crossed my mind that in the very beginning we heard that Natalee left CnC with 2 locals and an EXCHANGE STUDENT.  Have we heard any more about that?  Would Joran be considered an exchange student in any way?  Was that a lie that he told Natalee and her group?

wealthy british guy kidnapped by 5 brits...

 and a Spanish woman was kidnapped , also.

Delurking to ask rogers - who is this missing person on Natalee's flight?  I have seen reference to it but can't find any info  Thanks

I don't know if you'll find this in print - Greta on Fox made this statement during one of her interviews.  It was not on her regular show, so it won't be in any transcript.

Never heard another thing about it - guess you could go to www.gretawire.com and email her.  She does answer some emails.

is this person a cop?

most will recognize the above as just that ...rumors...
usually (but not always) the above is stated by the 'offending parties' with the full disclosure that it is a rumor...but retract?...is this the Washington Post?...(gosh darn it all, i thought this was a forum for news,  opinions and rumors of news)

it would be great if all of us on the planet could speak with 100% accuracy but unfortunately it invariably comes out more along the lines of
"...well, i heard..."
nevertheless sometimes that can produce very valuable information...(and then a lot of times it doesn't)

Sandra, thanks for posting this information.  Sounds like they need to open a mental institution as well - "who sewed their mouths shut"??????

obviously i have no info, but my guess would be this was about money. she happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person.

Yes, this is the Post Police.   :wink:

Just ignore it.  That stuff is old, and has been discussed over and over again by most of us here!

Sandra, thanks for posting this information.  Sounds like they need to open a mental institution as well - "who sewed their mouths shut"??????[/quote]
Jenny Criag  :?:
**Sorry**

That is a valid concern. I think we all should prepare ourselves for the possibility that Nat will never be found and no one will ever be punished for her disappearance.  I view the Aruban authorities much like the Colorado authorities in the Jon Benet case.  So much time was wasted that good untouched evidence could have been gathered. Now, it is probably too late.  We need a. a body, b. a confession and good prosecution, c. or try to get over this entire ordeal.

Thanks for covering for me Pine, I was actually sleeping.

thank you cerulean for this plea for facts and objectivity

I saw you over there hanging on that tree...figured you needed at least 40 winks...

 :wink:

With all the good places to send money  to help    Natalee ,
What do Monkeys Think is the best?

I would also like to add that if she is dead, and ever is found the chances of finding a cause of death might be slim. Two examples of missing people whose cause of death was never determined are Danielle Van Dam (found on land) and Laci Peterson(washed onto shore). Even though here in the states we knew it was murder, there was no cause of death. Most of the evidence in both cases were circumstancial or pure forensic. With the Van dam case they were able to determine a possible crime scene, otherwise I think her killer might have walked. Natalees case mayb remain a mystery even if she is found.

I sent money to the TX search group.

That would help explain his being charged with complicity in a premeditated murder one day, and less than 24 hours later, being released.  That really puzzles me.

And save the flames...it's just a thought.

 

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.

a Judge from Curacao released Paul.
 Aruba LE was Not amused.

Where did you hear that the Aruba LE was Not ammused??

Well, they have apperantly enough evidence to present to the judge to validate a longer stay in prison for Joran and his friends. That doesn't necceraly mean that's enough to get them convicted, we'll just have te wait for that until the first day of the trail.

iquitos,
If my memory serves me right, I think Laci disappeared Christmas time and washed up in April. So 4-5 mths? Theres alot of speculation of whether she was weighted dow or placed in a barrel. Either way, no way to determine cause of death bc she was missing parts, etc.

Hey Pinemeadows- ive been followin this case from day one of this forum and havent been on for about 4 days or so...wonderin if you had heard anything new bou this "missing person" on nat's flight...... i know about the father and dj bein freed..but in the dark with everythin else

One thing that is INDISPUTABLE about this case is the outpouring -- the literal gush -- of sympathy and support for Joran and his family, by Aruban nationals. For the van der Sloot family that has done nothing but lie and cover up, since the beginning of this investigation. And booking agents and tour guides and parents around the world will be on notice that they will NEVER have the undivided sympathy of the Aruban people if one of their daughters turns up missing.

If they didn't get it this time, they NEVER would.

That message is going out loud and clear, from the front pages of AM Digital that reads, "A Crisis Blown Out of Proportion," to anti-Natalee messages that are going out on TOP95, to the posters on this forum who cannot accept the eyewitness accounts of Natalee's classmates, and who must continue to paint her as a girl out of control who is merely taking an extended holiday in some Aruban crack house, or who "had it coming."

The Tx group would qualify for a tax deduction whereas the Holloway Trust Fund would not. Thus, your donation to the Tx  group would be with before tax dollars and to the Holloway Trust with after tax dollars.

Maybe the FBI can work out something with Aruba LE to take the Guantanamo detainees off our hands.

There has not been a vanishing act this good since DB Cooper.  Like poof ... gone without a trace. I hope to learn by the 05' World Series what really happened.

This is v-e-d-d-y interesting...do you remember where you read this?

Do we have a separate timeline for Itenary and events concerning Nat and Joran?

Anyone in the VDS family talking today - or Beth?

What about all the promised additional arrests?

Did they ever find DB Cooper??

This topic keeps coming up. Something about an after-party. Isn't that this party:

http://gallery.magic965.com/thumbnails.php?album=235

If so, there is'nt really anything sinister and it seems to have been well attended.

dont think so.
http://www.geocities.com/supiclone/9301/fbi.html

The plate glass window account was reported by Geraldo.  He learned this from talking to the parents of a student at ISA.  

Date rape drugs - source was PlanetHuff - I think.  I provided a link to this on a previous post.

Prof...this is the first bit of common sense I've seen on this board in quite some time.  Good job.

I'm not a classmate, nor an acquaintance of Natalee.  I never ran into her on the street or had the pleasure of speaking with her.  I do however know the "type" of person she is.  I feel as though it were tangible that she is a good person and would not have been gone this long of her own free will.  It's unfortunate that the only real witnesses (Dash & mbhs05) we have to Natalees's character and personality have been driven away by a few inconsiderate members.  

This board was founded with people that wanted to talk about the story, learn about Natalee and be a place of understanding.  Not a place place for character assasination.

Remember next time before you hit the submit button...would you say what you are saying about your own daughter?

Island Promises......... :evil:

anybody know what time or if they released steve c and jorans father yet?

Joran's father was apparently released last night

PVDS was released yesterday... SC is to be released at 1pm today

I believe PVDS was home last night

Thanks guys. Havent been home much or able to watch tv while I was.

Joran's father was released yesterday.  Steve C. will be release today at 1:00pm when his 8 days is up.

Monkeys in stereo

Morning all. Is it just me, or is there a pall and depression over the cage this morning? Comon people. All is not lost...yet.

Morning! Im not depressed no reason to be...unless you consider my 5 yr old putting my cat in the toilet as depressing.

You are right Gaijin. Just as the days drag on, it's only natural that hopes fade. I have to constantly remind myself of Elizabeth Smart. Maybe we can have a miracle here too. I pray.

The cat's probably depressed...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?p=38815#38815

 BREAKING NEWS BTK killings suspect Dennis Rader waives right to jury trial, pleads guilty to 10 counts of murder. Detail soon.

I was watching one of the videos on CNN--showing PVDS being released-when they said they asked BHT for an interview they said she declined since she was two upset with the 2 men being released!

Don't know when we will see her talk??

Feels as if we have hit a brick wall.But keep hope alive guys, something is bound to happen here one way or another, it may not be as quick as we want it to, but it will happen.Bright Side, we have all made tons of new friends here to discuss the case with until and after this is resolved.

Probably. Trying to teach a 5 yr old the cat isnt a toy has been hard lol.

I agree. Remember we really dont know whats going on behind those closed doors while the interrogations are going on. Im also hopeful that the TX group will find her one way or another. I remember reading when Laci Peterson was missing that most missing people who disappear under circumstances related to foul play are usually found. It just takes time to find them. It took 4 mths for Laci to wash up, and in the end justice was served. So dont lose hope. Its only been 4 wks.

Gerben, Can Aruban LE appeal?[/quote]

Yes the DA can make an appeal.

About now we should be praying for the body to surface in some manor. Short of that, IMHO, the culprit is going to get off scott free.  Just my opinion.

The cat will eventually teach the child that he isn't a toy, won't be pretty but the cat will rest easier afterwards.My lil man (8 now) had to learn the hard way after I told him until I was blue in the face,

Or you could also ask, would you say what are saying about your own son?

Yep I know. Not looking forward to it either. Its a battle of wills right now, eventually I expect the cats will will win.

(SNIPPED)

He's not charged but 'suspected', thats a enormous difference in dutch law. Somebody is officially charged on the first day of trial, until then he's just a suspect. During that pre-trail arrest the Aruban LE has to present enough evidence to the judge to prolong that arrest with a given amount of days. That's up to the judge. In this system you are locked up if your are  suspected of a crime, these intervals where the judge comes in play are specifically designed to avoid people being detained for a pretty long time without enough evidence to do so.
The Aruban LE thought they had enough to keep PvdS locked up, the judge didn't share that opinion.[/quote]


I concur, there is also a mention of using PVDS as a phychological key to pressure JVDS to confess.  And maybe the pressure from both Beth and Jug to 'have' PVDS to be arrested on way or the other.  The impartial Judge probably made the right decision, not enough substantial evidence even for suspicion.  The mention of Greta interview got him arrested, but I think the full unedited probably got him off.  Many time shows are edited and can be skewed to give the impression that someone is not talking or said something..perhaps after reviewing the taped interview, it was maybe perhaps showing an explanation, a elaboration of a statement that got cut out or edited..[/quote]

On Fox yesterday someone said (and I can't remember who this was, whether an attorney or another official) that the prosecution presented 4 affidavits or depositions in support of his arrest.  The judge reviewed these 4 affidavits and determined they were inconsistent.  So apparently it was more than just the Greta interview.

PVDS has already been released-MVDS picked him up yesterday and said they were going home-they said the cameras were following them --then the parents stopped and went in a different direction--don't know where they were heading.

Dj Steve-will be released around 1pm today

That was the clerk of the court on Fox yesterday.

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

as counselled by his father? for Joran to establish his own timeline?

iquitos,
Laci disappeared Dec 24th washed up around April 14th i think.

anybody notice the armload of evidence file the female prosecuter carried into court yesterday?

o.k. in the beginning they arrested the original 3 then let them go and re-arrested them right?Then we hear that they wired the car and all the other surveillance to get info, we haven't (and probably won't) know what they gathered from this..Fast forward to today..PVDS has been arrested and then let go couple days later, we do not know REALLY why they let him go, but I'll bet that LE is watching him like a hawk as to his movements.

Thanks,

I wonder if they will?

Just in general--would u say that to someone right in their face--some people have more "balls" to say things via the cyber way--but would never say that to someones face.

It is a shame certain people that were very helpful and informative were pushed away from here because of comments toward them..

Very true...however we know that Joran is an person of less than stellar character.  Underage drinking, underage gambling, anger management classes and romantic involvment (of some kind) with a 13 year old girl are just a few examples of his "nice" traits.

My understanding is they werent arrested at first, only questioned, which is when they made up the story about the security guards in black uniforms. Then they were arrested what June 9th?

Well, the group from Texas sounded very confident yesterday that they would find her.  The inspired me.  They said that they would find her today, and if not today, within the next couple of days.  They said Beth would be able to take her daughter home.  I have to believe in that or I get very depressed about this.  I hope that it will also mean that justice is served for Natalee.  But my biggest hope here is that her mother be able to take her home, dead or alive.

Did not BH promised more arrest?  Unless you she was fed this by the Arubian LE/FBI??

Thanks,

I wonder if they will?[/quote]

Yesterday it was stated on Fox that the prosecutors had already filed an emergency appeal regarding the release of PVDS.

Can anyone confirm the news snippet I heard before my hubby changed it off of the news that The Texas Search group said "The family can only hope for closure at this point" I think this was Sat or Sunday, and hubby won't have the news on, he said its depressing him..... Please confirm any statement s made by the TES group TYIA

On FOX, one of their forensic people said that Laci appeared after the water warmed up and she floated to the top.  Also, that she was in a bay.  He didn't hold much hope that if Natalee was in the ocean she would come to shore after all this time.  Ocean currents and all being involved.

Good thinking, but I think PVDS is probably going to be the best he can possibly be for the next few weeks.  He's probably learned from his son's surveillance that this is exactly what LE will do to him.

There's more going on here than meets the eye.

Also wondering what happened to the "more arrests" theory...who said that anyway???

I'd bet money that no one saw him walking home, during those 40 minutes. And, on an island that claims to be open for business 24/7, and where everybody knows everybody, that would speak volumes.

right and in a BAY with totally different current and climatology than this area.

[
Dj Steve-will be released around 1pm today[/quote]

I just read that Steve Croes Mom collapsed outside the courtroom due to extreme emotion about her son being locked up and all of the trauma surrounding the case. This case certinaly..if nothing else has affected a multitude of people.

The Texas group from the beginning has said that this is most likely the recovery of a body case.  They hold out very little hope that she is alive.

Agreed. I'm a landlubber and most of my experience with bodies of water is with lakes, not the sea. Who here knows about tides and currents?

What was the tide stage around the time Natalee disappeared -- 2 a.m. May 30? Was the tide coming in or going out? I understand that the water is very shallow on the southwest side of the island for quite a ways out. If Natalee were left in these shallow waters, would she wash out to sea or into shore?

I completely agree. I was also very hopeful again when the search group said so confidentally they would find her in the next day or two. I think right now the most important thing is to find her so they can take her home. If she is dead, her family needs some closure, and a place they can go and place flowers and visit her. Once she is found then maybe the case can move forward in a better direction, one that will find some justice for natalee.

That IS news...wonder if we'll hear more about that today.

I just read that Steve Croes Mom collapsed outside the courtroom due to extreme emotion about her son being locked up and all of the trauma surrounding the case. This case certinaly..if nothing else has affected a multitude of people.[/quote]

She was on FOX last night and looked much better. Says she has cancer and has not been well nor hasn't slept.

Right, and also they had an idea of where she might wash up.

I agree, my heart breaks for her family and as much as I want there to be justice, there cannot be any peace w/o having Natalee back in Alabama.

good morning all.  i've been trying to keep up, but i'm sure i'm still a bit behind.

BINGO! that is what I posted about last pm. Then someone said the vacationers would be to "into" their vacations to see someone. I would think that after this amount of media, if a person saw another person walking down that road even near the timeframe joran perports to be walking----it would have been reported. I understand the road can be dark, but even arubagirl can't understand how NO ONE could confirm seeing him walking that distance.

OT: Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, is describing the Otero killings right now in the courthouse... it's live on Fox... he is so matter-of-fact.... CHILLING.

I concur, there is also a mention of using PVDS as a phychological key to pressure JVDS to confess.  And maybe the pressure from both Beth and Jug to 'have' PVDS to be arrested on way or the other.  The impartial Judge probably made the right decision, not enough substantial evidence even for suspicion.  The mention of Greta interview got him arrested, but I think the full unedited probably got him off.  Many time shows are edited and can be skewed to give the impression that someone is not talking or said something..perhaps after reviewing the taped interview, it was maybe perhaps showing an explanation, a elaboration of a statement that got cut out or edited..[/quote]

On Fox yesterday someone said (and I can't remember who this was, whether an attorney or another official) that the prosecution presented 4 affidavits or depositions in support of his arrest.  The judge reviewed these 4 affidavits and determined they were inconsistent.  So apparently it was more than just the Greta interview.[/quote]

Four affidavits could have been 4 interrogating police or observers during the PVDS questioning, it could also been during the interview.. I could be wrong but the idea of reviewing the full unabridged tape interview would in my mind done the tipping of the Judges decision.  ( the the character of the person signing the affidavits)

Morning Bamajo....better read fast....

thanks gagirl.

Can you imagine the pain that the parents would feel having to get on a plane to go home knowing they were leaving their daughter forever somewhere other than home

a lot of that "evidence" could be duplicates and reams and reams of paperwork that have absolutely no bearing. in any case there is a kitchen sink type mentality -- just in case it may be needed. i wouldn't put much emphasis on that. there are probably very few pieces of real evidence other than their stories at this point.

Exactly, because the killer, scott put her and himself there, sound familiar. joran placing himself at the Marriott Beach with a missing person. Does to me.

whatever the reason for hauling Paulus in, this is a real setback because it is rare that a judge would intervene at this phase to cut him loose.   the prosecutor has broad authority to hold a person on mere suspicion after the initial 48 hour police detention.  Usually this is rubber stamped by the judge so they really were out on a limb to lose this so early.  it means they have little or nothing on him.

My feeling is that it would torture you for the rest of your life.  It would be so devastating to lose your child in the prime of their life anyway.  It would be devastating to lose a child at all.  But to literally LOSE them, never to know where and how and why, never to have a place to visit them, and never to know 100% if they were alive or dead would be the worst possible thing, I would think.  To have to leave the last place they were known of to be, which is far away from home, and just go on with life would probably haunt you for the rest of your life.

I was just thinking about that last night , and that has got to be THE worst thing that could ever happen.But in reality life has to go on, bills have to be paid and there is another child involved.I cannot even imagine.Thinking maybe I would have to build a grass hut on the beach and live out my days
holding onto hope.

From some research I did regarding this I concluded that if she was in the water close to shore, where people normally swim, she would wash up on shore.  Further out the is an undertow that would take her out to sea.  Apparently there is some sort of radar system that allows authorities to definitively know "when anyone steps foot in the water".  So, I guess they know if a boat went out to sea late at night.  So, my guess is she was hidden on land because:

1) In shallow water she would have washed ashore Aruba
2) In deeper waters there would be records of a boat heading to sea

The exception is if she was put out to sea the next morning and not in the middle of the night.

I hope I am terrible wrong, but there are other ways at Aruba to let someone disappear. The sea around Aruba is very deep. If you have NH and a small anchor .... well ... you know what I mean.

I heard another story this morning. The northern part of Aruba is very rough, lots of rocks and waves. If someone gets into the water there, waves keeps banging that body on the rocks. If there is a body in the water for only three days  .... I will save you the details, but  ... DNA would be the only option left.

The saying that on a small island everybody knows everybody's business is just that .. a saying not to be taken seriously.  Aruba with a population, 20 years ago, of 70, 000 plus, and after Exxon closing burgeoned to 90,000 plus has really changed the dynamics according to Reuben Trappenberg for those who may have caught this saying.   Keep in mind that the Holliday Inns, Marriott, Wyndham.. all these big Corporate Island exploiters (tax free holiday, concessions, kickbacks) allow or force the host island to accept foreign more talented (read take less money and don;t unionize) replacement then Arubian workers.  (i.e. See Royal Carribean Cruiselines, Carnival etc...do you see alot of Americans, no?! Mostly ex soviet Eastern Bloc, Jamaican and Filipinos)

So eventho you have 90, 000 plus people it pretty much a different Aruba compared to 20 years ago.

Speaking of how the board slowed down a bit with the case--to me, other than Fox--no one really is focusing or giving any info on the case either!

One post sticks in my mind also...I am not sure if it was someone being a butthead or what-but the one that said "There will be a new judge, all supsects released.......It could have been a hoax-but it really happened-and 2 have been released.

I also read eith on Fox.com also--which is not settling well:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160759,00.html[/url/In an anecdote that illustrated the insular world of Aruba, Justice Minister Croes said Paul van der Sloot had recently visited him in his office after failing to become a judge, apparently seeking a position in Croes' department. Van der Sloot had also taught the justice minister's daughter.

Yes and Scott also lied initially about where he was, He tried to say he was golfing remember? Then had to backtrack and say oh I forgot I went fishing instead. That is what placed him. Not trying to compare the two bc I do feel Scott was a bit smarter or had it well planned out more then I think anyone in this case has. But if you look at both cases and how the suspects lied, were considered good normal people...well...

Haha!! You beat me to that one!!  :D

What makes you think that a body would either have to be disposed of that night or the next day? I hate to be cynical, but the amigos and daddy had 11 days to dispose of a body and to clean up after themselves. And even an idiot can do a pretty good job with 11 days to work with, and with the police looking the other way.

 

professor you are correct that they would have had a window of a few days after their initial questioning but not 11 days becasue things started heating up and supposedly they were under constant surveillance, if you believe that.

Right I understand all that companazi, but at this point anyone seen walking down that road that even slightly resembled joran would have been reported, I would think.

Professor wrote: What makes you think it would have been the next day? I hate to be cynical, but the amigos and daddy had 11 days to dispose of a body and to clean up after themselves. And even an idiot can do a pretty good job with 11 days, and the police looking the other way.

Yeah, it may have been longer, assuming JvdS is the perp.  If Natalee was brought to his house, alive or not, and subsequently died, there was a good amount of time to think of and execute a plan to hide her.  If that's the case, the plan was expedited when her parents showed up at JvdS's home.

1.   For those feeling depressed, just because the Aruban police didn't have enough evidence NOW to hold these people in detention doesn't mean they won't have enough evidence LATER, anyone released can just as easily be re-arrested if the facts warrant it

2.  Was the Paul Van Der Sloot arrest an overreaction to pressure or a tactic - well if I were Joran Van Der Sloot and I hear my father has waived the father-son privilege, I'd be rather concerned because it was that privilege that had me concerned.... there is an allegation that PVDS counselled all the boys what to say - so imagine Paul tells Joran, keep your mouth shut for as long as possible, I know it is hard but to use his own words, Stand up to the pressure because you'll end up free in the long run as long as you keep your mouth shut - if they don't find the body, they don't have much of case and because I cannot be compelled to testify vs you, nor can you be compelled to testify vs me(?) then they cannot force us to say anything, as long as you didn't tell the Kalpoe brothers anything, you're good to go.......

now when it is publicly announced he is waiving that privilege that has got to make Joran very nervous and we don't know what PVDS has said to the cops this weekend

3. Regarding an island of 90,000 - as someone who lives in a town of 90,000, I can assure you I don't know at least 85,000 of them and there are many areas of town I've never been in - having said that though a tall guy like Joran walking down the road at 2:00 - 3:00 am in a heavily tourist area, giving that most of his friends were late night party animals as well, hard to believe no one saw Joran walking home and it was stated that Joran didn't strike them as the kind of kid who would walk home...

The problem is that quite often, life does not go on for those left behind.  I don't think I could if this were my child.  This family will spend every last dime that they have and that anyone will loan them to find her, as would I.

I'm sure that with the amout of interest and support this family has received, they will be on the island for a long time to come with plenty of supporters.

The Equusearch people have been asking locals for food and water.

maybe not.  i could be wrong, but didn't the holloway-twitty/VDS initial meeting take place outside?  or even if inside their home, natalee could've been hidden in joran's apartment area  ???

I was struck by the fact the Aruban government spokesman confirmed to Fox News that the reason Paul VDS was arrested was a result of her interview and something he said which contradicted a previous statement.

i sure wish greta had nosed around the v/d sloot house like she did the Kalpoes, going into the bedrooms etc.  we need to see the layout and get an idea how private that "apartment" joran lived in is and how it sits in relation to the rest of the house.  is there alternate access?  next time she visits her pet monkey next door greta should check it out.  I know there is a wall in back and a vacant lot behind it.  could joran get out that way?  anybody got a floor plan?

I believe Fox interviewed a fisherman, the west side of the island being very calm, if a body was going to wash up it would be this side of the island, if you dumped the body north or east, the current would immediately take the body miles away

now I don't know about the tides either, might there by a tide almanac for Aruba online somewhere, since sport fishing is a big sport there and presumably this is something fishermen like to know?

Paulus van der Sloot's waiver of the father-son privilege is much overrated. He probably did it, in order to be able to LIE for his son.

There are many small local boats (15 - 20 feet or so) at Aruba without any record as they do not leave Aruba. I do not know the sea around Aruba, but I do know the sea around Bonaire (close to Aruba).
You'll only need to go 300 - 600 feet away to see the bottom will make a steep way down. If you drop a body there ... it will be gone for ever ...

The northern part of Aruba is very rough: lots of rocks and waves banging on these rocks. I wouldn't swim there ...

Does it only seem suspicious to me that PVDS returns from the Netherlands, covers for his son, and doesn't get arrested until the judge from Curacao is in charge.  Then suddenly the judge from the Netherlands is sent over who hasn't heard so much about the case and PVDS is set free.  
Regardless of the type of judicial system in place, we think the Dutch are rather lax in prosecuting crime.  And when they cannot, as in drugs and prostitution, they just make it legal.

hey calvary!

I started a thread in the Chit Chat area about this BTK thing, so I don't get in trouble for be OT again. See absolut, I learned something! LOLOL

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=413

As we say down here, somebody doing some home cookin! If ya know what I mean.

Moved yours to News Issues as well.

This is very much untrue. There is no revere onus. It's true that the state has a strong position during the pre-trail investigations, but the rights of the innocent are quite well protected. Actually that's one of the reasons why so little information gets out - the detainees have to be presumed innocent until the trial is over and the judge has ruled otherwise. In the Dutch press, they're not even printing the full names of the suspects to protect their identities.

The previous judge had been relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (sic) So they bring in a new judge, and he says, "Evidence? I don't see no evidence? I don't see no stinkin' evidence."

As I stated before, I hope Natalee is found alive but I don't think the invesitgation is going that way. It seems like LE has a very credible reason to believe Natalee is deceased. Is it because of some sort of "confession" from the 3 punks, evidence, or possibily another informant we know nothing of?  Thier detentions seem to be easily granted each time.

My worries:

1) Is LE focused on a killing/death because even if it's unresolved it's way better publicity for Aruba than an unexplained kidnapping?

2) Why do we believe that anyone went to the lighthouse or the beach by Mariott or HI? This statement was only provided by known liars. They probably went no where near that area. Also, only one of the kalpoe brothers seems to have been home in the early morning hours. And can that even be proven?

3) If LE leaves us with story that Natalee was "left on the beach", we have to assume that all this effort was wasted and that there is a real good chance she is being held captive somewhere. This is a very scary outcome for us all and one that will haunt Aruba for many years to come, and rightly so. It matters not that these things happen elsewhere in the world. The prevailing suspicion will be: get drugged at C&C's and possibly get kidnapped with no trace. With a LE that will be of no help.

What does the FBI think? So far we have not heard their thoughts?  If they think Natalee is a "missing person", they had better be looking for her too, possibility in surrounding countrys.

We need closure for the family, and a safe return would be the best solution. Barring that, we need an answer that's beliveable and not just a generic answer that attempts to sweep this under the rug.

icey

 

... and maybe even if paul knows nothing about this he suspects joran does and has decided it is time for Joran to talk so he sends the signal that he will waive his right not to testify against his family because he has had enough of this too.  on the other hand, if he knows nothing, why not testify to that?  remember, this is a man of the law (one of the good guys until this happened).  they have said a lot about him about not that he was a bad guy.

yea, but how did he get her there? I have been trying to figure this out! It would make sense that joran and the rest would know they needed a cover story if something happened to Natalee there, they would have to be prepared for, say if one of her friends showed up. I don't think the Bama Posse ( and trust me if she were my daughter it would have been the Tarheel Posse, I don't blame them at all) was ever expected by joran or anyone. The Twitty's surprised them, the inital story was, I think, made up to tell other kids.

I concur, the govt spokesperson from Aruba Reuben and the Justice spokes person Marianne say this repeatedly.  There is a lot of misunderstanding and consequent bashing of this system.  However I do have to point out the patriot act is moving us to that point anyway...err so get used to it.

 

as far as we know the previous judge was not relieved.  he became a member of the caribbean court and left.  hence the new judge.

<<

Mornin' All!

I will never catch up now.  Can't sleep on this board and now work calls.  But did want to comment that the son in this case is the one who pounds his chest at NH's mother in the presence of his parents so lots of enabling going on there.

As far as would I say something about my own son, I have no doubt that I would have long ago said far worse and to him if he lied and withheld information involving a life and the arrest of two innocent people at his bequest.

After he regained consciousness, I would hope I would be the first to say it.  It is not love to teach a child to lie and do wrong but indifference, taking the easy way out.  I remember one time one of mine did something awful and I drove him straight to the offended party and listened to his apology before I would even address the real problem.  He had ordered an computer COD in the name of a little girl at school on whom he had a crush and a rash of other things, cheap laser watches she would think gross, etc.  He got to apologize to everybody from the postmaster on for that.  Guess what?  He never did it again.

But then I know for a fact he knows better for we have reared him to do so and he has no excuse for sorry behavior.  And if he did something of this nature, much as I would be heartbroken and even knowing death penalty in this country, I would do my level best to help him confess and tell all he knows.  The police interrogation would be mild compared to what I would say or do.  I would know I had failed as a parent to instill the character in him and that he was seriously flawed at this point, not tell him not to say anything as has been done in this case.

All anybody wants from Joren in this case is the truth for a change and all he knnows related to her disappearance for LE does not even know where he last saw her because of all the lies.  He well may have left her on the beach alone but we cannot know that for it was his third story, a perfect example of the result of lying and why not to do it.

So, yes, I think I would say about my son any of the things I have stated about Joren but he would be the first to hear it directly from me, post haste.

how convenient

By the way, answer me this. The previous judge was relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (Forget about the fact that that is what judges are supposed to do. Hear evidence.) And so they bring in a new judge, and there are thousands of pages of transcripts and official reports and WITHIN HOURS he is able to wade through it all and come to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to hold PVDS any longer. Answer me how it is possible for him to digest all of that material in just a few hours. He must have been to the Evelyn Wood speedreading course.

Maybe their wasn't any evidence against him.

Anna does raise an interesting ethical dilemma

how many parents would be willing to lie or do anything to support a child even if they knew they were guilty or suspected it to avoid having their kid's life ruined, I 'm sure Mr. and  Mrs. Van Der Sloot are more upset that Joran may lose his tennis scholarship to a Florida university, if he hasn't already, than the fact Natalee Holloway is missing

we were talking last night about Karla Holmolka, her mother supported her EVEN AFTER IT CAME OUT ON VIDEOTAPE, that Karla had helped her husband rape her little sister, and that she died as a result of a drug they gave her (the drug stolen by Karla from the vet clinic she worked for) but the father disowned her once he saw that videotape - we could never figure out the mother there.......in this case the parents had no knowledge of the crime but how can you support a daughter in that case?

Karla's story before that discovery was that she was a battered wife, afraid for her life, Paul made her do it blah blah blah when it was clear she was an equal partner in the depravity

ha, ha, ha!!!  that last comment has me rolling!   :lol:

good call.  very good call on the questions before that.  especially since this new judge supposedly is not familiar with this case.  perhaps greta can dig a little deeper on this judge, and see if there are any connections with him and PVDS.

Anne, between you and my Mom, Joren wouldn't stand a chance  :?

I would think you would be more interested in having Greta talk to the person who says they saw two men dragging ?? a woman off the beach in the wee hours of the morning that Natalee vanished !!!!

This is very old news, however, I have not heard anything of Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig since he announced the case solved and that the suspect was going to lead authorities to the body.

Perhaps this was discussed before and I missed it.  Is there now a "new" Deputy Police Commissioner?

I know there was some speculation that someone confessed and then retracted their confession.  Sort of a nolo contendere situation after that.

yes...all this and the guy can not catch the plane??? :roll:

No, it's untrue. Reverse onus may well be the MO and mindset of the investigators and the prosecution, but there is no such thing as a reverse onus in our law system. They will have to prove the suspect's guilt beyond reasonable doubt or the suspects will walk (and be compensated for the days spent in jail innocently). You've also seen how PvdS' detention wasn't prolonged because the DA had failed to produce sufficient support for a reasonable suspicion of guilt. It's not that PvdS had to prove his own innocence.

There are certain circumstances under which a person who has murdered a U.S. national in a foreign country can be arrested by U.S. authorities anywhere in the world and tried for the murder, but the murder must be related to an act of terrorism.

Thanks, that is what I thought I heard  :cry:

Regardless of their explanation, look at the facts.  No investigation for over a week into the boy who Natalee was with.  No search of him or his family's property for many days.  Son lies to police.  Son's friends lie to police.  They are arrested.  Father arrested with charge of premeditation of murder.  Judge replaced.  DJ released.  Father released.
Looks like corruption to me.

No one ever answers my question as to why the DJ went to the police with the same lie that Joran told about dropping off Natalee at the HI where she was talking with two security guards.  Why would Croes do this?

Did anyone check out PVDS story that his son wasn't home when the Twittys showed up?  The police should have asked Joran where he was earlier and then gone to the casino and checked the videotapes on that very night.    I think both Croes and PVDS are complicit in the crime at a minimum and should not be released.  If the judge from Curacao had stayed on the case and these men were left in prison, it is more likely others would have been indicted or contradictions in stories brought out in interrogation.  Maybe now they will lose their heads instead.

It is interesting that the decision was made not to follow up on that.

 There is a rumor that there was a Van der Sloot ATM transaction at 3:00AM.  

Also the Kalpoe mom in an intervied said that her son told her that he was worried about the drive to the lighthouse because the car was low.  I think she meant low on gas.  

If this ATM rumor is true is certainly could not have been dad Van at the ATM, otherwise there would be evidence to keep him in jail, so it would have been Joran at the ATM, probably getting money to put gas in the Kalpoe car to transport Natalee's body.  There is serious doubt that Joran could have disposed of the body without a car, unless he appropriated a small boat near the Marriott.

A wonder if the police have looked into gas purchases near the Marriott in that time frame.

Aruba is a pretty small community. Paul van der S. was arrested so his collegeas (direct people where he works) are too much involved to the investigation. That's why a judge from Curacao needed to come. Probably they now also send a Dutch judge.



Oh sure :-D And according to Fox News we also kill unborn children who miss a small part of their finger.  I can say: not true at all.

Prostitution is legal. 100 % true. Did you know that prostitutes also have to pay their taxes ?

For drugs we have 'soft' drugs (marihuana and hashish) and 'hard' drugs (heroine, cocaine, crack, speed, etc). Hard drugs is prohibited at all times. Soft drugs is only allowed for a daily dosis.

If you need more info, you can drop me a PM. Now back to the NH discussion ;-)

Maybe the exiting Judge, for what ever business or legal reason, saw the evidence but was to afraid to give a controversial ruling, in steps the Hatchet man and he gets the dirty job.  Its like here when you get refused a job or get fired...they say ..umm the Comittee has decided...whilst you know very well that that one person made the decision....again, just more speculation.

Mine would sooner offer me up for the gas chamber before knowingly let me get away with petty theft.  I don't even want to think what she would do to me if I was disrespectful to a girlfriends mother.

I apologize, I seem to have gotten wrong info on Aruba from other posters at other forums a while ago

the compensation issue is interesting

you see merely arresting someone can do tremendous damage to their reputation and life

which is why in the US and Canada police are very careful to not arrest someone until they have sufficient facts that warrant not only probable cause but sufficent facts to protect their butt from a lawsuit for wrongful arrest etc......

I can already see that if this were an American situation, the lawsuits would be flying

much rumors...ant one remember the name of LE who mentioned a wild goose chase with car in columbia/venezula???

yes...all this and the guy can not catch the plane???
_________________

Do you really believe any of their excuses after all that we have heard?  Perhaps he didn't like what he was being sent to do....

 :lol:   I never understood that either!

The more I know, the more confused I get.

LOW as "Low to the ground" it has a " Body Kit"

Actually the plane was broken.

Indeed if it is confirmed that no one saw him walking home, one could then arrive at the bold conclusion that...no one saw him walking home.

Somewhere a few threads back mentioned the promised additional arrests - the only one that talked about that was Beth - she seemed convinced or had a gut feeling or whatever that this was eminent - I don't know about you but maybe the poor lady is suffering some from wishful thinking - which might be natural do to her distressed state - but her hunches and feelings just might not be based on anything really tangible here - including her feelings about the VDS and more arrests!

You are witty, my friend!

 

i magine the judge is no less familiar with the case than the one/s before him who have extended joran and the kalpoes not three times and released, the security guards, Steve and Mr. v/d sloot.  he did spend a lot of time going over this yesterday what, seven or eight hours?

If rumors, I would want to know just how those particular rumors got started, by whom, and why.

that is what i took it to mean as well, meaning the car was low to the ground.

Just one problem, Mama Kalpoe says the boys were home by 2:00 am, and we have phone records showing Joran called Deepak at 2:40 am wasn't it, to say he left Nat on the beach, according to the Kalpoe lawyer,
unless the suggestion is the boys left again after getting the phone call from Joran

Or he could have done it to demonstrate that he had nothing to hide.  He signed a waiver and yet his arrest was ruled unlawful.

It was the head guy for the largest newspaper in Aruba during an interview on Fox news.

After he regained consciousness, I would hope I would be the first to say it.  It is not love to teach a child to lie and do wrong but indifference, taking the easy way out.  

Well said..Motherhood is definitely not for wimps!!! Keep up the good work. I've paid my dues in this area!!! Only defend your kids when they are wronged unrightfully.

Hey i saw that..someone asked her about evidence, and she sort of nodded her head towards the HUGE stack that was falling out of her arms....I saw that too  :shock:

Also the Kalpoe mom in an intervied said that her son told her that he was worried about the drive to the lighthouse because the car was low.  I think she meant low on gas.  

If this ATM rumor is true is certainly could not have been dad Van at the ATM, otherwise there would be evidence to keep him in jail, so it would have been Joran at the ATM, probably getting money to put gas in the Kalpoe car to transport Natalee's body.  There is serious doubt that Joran could have disposed of the body without a car, unless he appropriated a small boat near the Marriott.

A wonder if the police have looked into gas purchases near the Marriott in that time frame[/quote]


Just one problem, Mama Kalpoe says the boys were home by 2:00 am, and we have phone records showing Joran called Deepak at 2:40 am wasn't it, to say he left Nat on the beach, according to the Kalpoe lawyer,
unless the suggestion is the boys left again after getting the phone call from Joran[/quote]
HEY I didn't say the 3:00  THING!

Its time to haul in the mothers too...I know Jug would love it but I think this would be a bad PR move on the part of the Twits..just my opinion tho.

Was this a rumor or a fact?

That was the car chase. The reporter's name is Hobart Thiel, and no one has interviewed him since. It is as if that phone call never happened.

The men dragging a woman from the beach I don't know the source.

Well either she knows more then we do about the case, or it is her only hope to find natalee alive. If more people were involved and natalee was being held captive that would lead to more arrests. I think thats what shes hoping for.

Good LORD..I had not heard anything like that before right this very minute...if that is fact, then why in the world havent we heard that til now... :shock:

deepak is very careful with his car.  no rough roads and no rough stuff in the back seat.  he loves his car.

LOL--Cliff Notes :)

Also the Kalpoe mom in an interview said that her son told her that he was worried about the drive to the lighthouse because the car was low.  I think she meant low on gas.  

I've read that Deepaks car had a ground package..meant the car was low to the ground..he was afraid his car would hit the rough ground in that area.

I can see that..teeanagers are very proud of their cars..

<<

Well, for those wondering about the psychological ramifications on children reared in such a manner, remember that first of all said son knows I love him more than life itself.  The one I used as an example now holds advanced degree from Georgetown, speaks five languages well enough to pass govt test (imagine that, Eu'ers! an American with language skills!) and holds a highly sensitive job for which he was tested for days including being connected to a polygraph machine for six straight hours.  And that was just to get the job!  Random polys given still.  At least he does not have to worry about keeping his stories straight,  :D

And apparently, no damage to his personality not character but maybe the opposite.  Aiding and abetting sets a child up for a lifetime of sorrow.  Life is complicated enough without creating problems.  I don't know if this is a cultural thing or personal one for I am American but of Dutch ethnicity so tend to think it is a matter of personal ethics and beliefs about what is right and wrong., a parents role (teach them empathy) and what constitutes basic decency.   :(

Indeed if it is confirmed that no one saw him walking home, one could then arrive at the bold conclusion that...no one saw him walking home.

___________

Or you could conclude that no one wants to come forward and say they saw him walking home.  Would you go forward and say this if you could end up in prison in Aruba?  How about if you thought you might lose your head?

Where've you been girl?   :wink:   This has been around the forum for about a week and a half, although no one has brought it up recently, I guess...until now.

There was a lot of info on that last week, for sure.  Can we get into those older threads?  Anyone know?

Let's see. Seven to eight hours to go through all of that. That's like going through your whole summer's reading list in eight hours. Way to go guy!
No Cliff Notes for you.

My Son's car  has a "Body Kit" clearance is about 2in. From the road.
You Can't "Off Road" with it.

heavyheart wrote:
.

This board was founded with people that wanted to talk about the story, learn about Natalee and be a place of understanding. Not a place place for character assasination.

Remember next time before you hit the submit button...would you say what you are saying about your own daughter



Heavyheart, you just spoke the TRUTH if I have EVER heard it..There has been so much back biting lately  :cry:

we never categorized it as other than rumor.  it was something a radio TOP 95.1 FM guy on aruba said last week early  he was reviewing various stories he had heard, some of which he thought credible or at least looking into.  

-  hysterical woman on marriot beach
-  guy saw hysterical woman being snatched by two guys in front of HI, reported incident and was blown off
-  natalee eating with two guys, one very black and one white at marriott
-  then there is natalee trying to pump an atm for 20 minutes while Lazlo waited for her.  did lazlo do it?  seriously if she used the atm there is a record and the cash could also be a motive for robbery.

I have heard these two stories repeated on this forum. Do we know what the sources are?

Same here. Husbands car had a body kit and sometimes it was hard to just leave a mcdonalds parking lot without it scraping the bottom.

hey PINE..LOL>.i guess I just had my eyes closed for a minute whan that was up..GOOD Lawdy...lol..I do think we can look back into the archives..if you see it, let me know about which run and which thread you saw it on...I must be goin' blind..LOL

Yes, the mother even said that is why he always had Satish drive him and drop him at work and pick him up because he didn't want to leave his car unattended while he was working.  Very proud of his car and didn't want any damage to it.

Good work! Don't most gas stations have cameras?

Edited to add: Woops... I guess "low" means low to the ground...

They did show a pic of the car--I think a Honda-it was "modified" body kit and all--so I think she did mean Body Kit

No Doubt! I watched Dash get run off this weekend and that's why I haven't posted, maybe the Trolls will be back at work under their respective bridges today.
 :cry:
I only lurked this weekend, this is way too emotional for me to get in the middle of the fighting, this weekend was SAD @ SM. I hope today is better w/ the ppl who care and genuinely want to see resolution and justice for all involved. And THANKYOU to the good Monkeys who behaved  :wink:

:here's some banana's for the good monkeys:

iquitos, those you listed above - all rumour, correct?  and does lazlo = lorenzo?  or is lazlo a new "character"?

there was ALOT of bickering over the weekend. I hope it is better today also. Maybe it was the full moon.

 anna you are so right but it is also about genes.  kids come out different.  you can have all kinds in one brood.

dash got run off?   :(

<<

And with the entire world watching via international media, there was only ONE plane on the entire island?  

I think the first judge has been scared off the case.  Perhaps this one is more to local LE's liking.  He did come in, guns ablazing', releasing suspects.

When lecturing us Americans on how we must respect the legal systme of others, is that not like respecting a person, it must earn some respect in some manner?  Of course this systme works for it has stood the test of time but it is the way it is being applies that causes our hair to stand on end, just as it does when in this country it is bungled.

Everyone is aware that the Cluey man in Florida who admits murdering the little Lundsford girl held her for days with the cops at the door and he has about room temp IQ.  All you need is a roll of duct tape for those who think it takes a genius and special equipment, consider how this very simple-minded man did just that and even search dogs, within sight of her home.  But are you aware someone just happened to  :!: FORGET TO READ HIM HIS RIGHTS  :!: and so he may walk?  Bet he does not walk far.  But there are calls for the resignation of Chief of Police and DA as well there should be along with a slew of arresting officers.

There should be an exception to that law for someone who has been arrested repeatedly like this man.  He can probably quote it from memory.  Why should it have to be read each and evry time!  But for now, that is the law and any judge in the country will throw this one out!  I can only hope new charges like kidnapping or holding against the will or something can be brought and his rights read to him or there is some way to correct this.  Otherwise, he walks!

So the legal system is only as good as those enforcing it.   :(

Yep. It was in Saturday's thread.  :(

this is a translation of an article from the Brabant Dagblad - courtesy of hasibokos -

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/extra/pvds.htm

Van der Sloot, persistent lawyer with principles

The lawyer Paul van der Sloot, that is detained in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway affair, is here mostly known for his 20-year-long fight against the building of a motorway around Boxtel.

Boxtel

Paul van der Sloot is indeed member of a brassband and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba, he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place. There was a huge disbelief in Aruba when he was arrested for his alleged involvement in disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Boxtel had experienced him as someone who would always persevere and had a thorough manner of working. Paul van der Sloot fought twenty years long (from 1973 until 1993) with local residents against the construction of a southern motorway, that had to go partly over the estate of the Van der Sloot family. Paul van der Sloot stood his ground and fought civil servants and politicians that had proposed and produced the faulty plans for the new motorway in the Cousil of State. The motorway came eventually but it was not laid through the scenic valuable territory anymore but further away. In his birthplace Boxtel, van der Sloot was criticized a lot because while he was fighting the developments of the new motorway, the dangerous traffic was still led trough Boxtel and this was causing accidents and consequently was costing the lives of many people. Van der Sloot was seen as a fault-finder that to prevent the motorway to be build on part of his land , was willing to sacrifice the lives of the youth who attended the schools in the vicinity of the local dangerous streets. Van der Sloot said later on that the criticism hurt him deeply..

Tilburg

Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government. It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.

New job

In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as lawyer for the Aruban government. The ministers were not impressed with his stance „I always first try to find a compromise. By simply prosecuting nobody gets wiser. If the authorities do something wrong I will always admit that. You must never interpret the facts differently then what they are. I am convinced that on the long run this will give better results“, According to Van der Sloot in an interview ten years ago in the Brabants Nieuwsblad. After a while Van der Sloot got a different assigment: the government wanted him to only set up contracts. Van der Sloot considered going back to The Netherlands, but he liked the small scale of Aruba and as it appeared he had enough possibilities to continue with his career. He became cabinets leader for the public ministry and gave classes of Administrative Law at the local university.

Judge

Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet.
--
 

Translation by Hasibokos.com of an article by Brabants Dagblad published on Monday 27th of June.[/url]

Diva, I hear ya..this weekend I saw alot of monkeys flinging crap..it was a ZOO in here for sure...I have been a lurker in the evenings because of all that went on in here..VERY sad and VERY inappropriate... :twisted:

Anna while it is slow in here, you might like this thread

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=393

for the most part i stayed out of that one but --- did leave.  she has left before and always came back.  as bad as it get here. we are still pretty disciplined compared to others because we try to separate known facts from rumors and speculation while at the same time we use all we get, fact and fiction to spin scenarios.

- guy saw hysterical woman being snatched by two guys in front of HI, reported incident and was blown off
Maybe time to revisit  That ???

anyone notice how croes is out with much fanfare after PVDS goes so unnoticed and quickly ???  My aruban friends had no idea pvds was going to be released yesterday nevermind him homefor dinner....  not much news out of aruba... :roll:
maybe the head news guy is no longer (there)?? :?:
see u guys later.

New post up on main page regarding the weekend fund raiser in MB.

Turns out some of our own Monkeys were present ... Thanks for your help.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1192

Red

Boy, it did get out of hand there for a while didn't it?  And I don't think Dash will be visiting us again.  She was very upset.  There was no need for it to have taken place like it did.  :cry:

I don't think at this point that we can say that it WAS NOT related to an act of terrorism. Especially if someone as yet unknown got involved.

thanks for that backgound mojo.   :D

Probably the evidence was mixed with a bunch of beaurocratic court papers.  Governments thrive on bureacracy.

iquitos, You are right about some of us being more disciplined than others..and thank GOD for some sanity here....The daytime posters are better about this i thnk,IMHO..weekend posters can be bad about character assassination, as well..and it is NOT everybody...and that is good..."CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??"

. . .NECK.

See? exactly my point...

I suspect that there may be former date-rape victims of Joran van der Sloot lurking on this forum. If you are such a person, then I would advise you to contact the FBI or to send a private message to one of the founders of this forum. As a participant on this forum, I can attest that the founders of this forum are people of integrity and are people whom you can trust. You may wish to work out an agreement with them as to how you want that information to be handled, but I would urge anyone who has been victimized by this man, or who feels that she may have been given a date-rape drug by him, to have your voice heard. I have made a similar announcement at Riehl World.

21 years old is not a 'teenager'.
It's just a correction, but feel free to get angry and call me a 'troll'.
I know your M.O.

I myself have often wondered about the women whom were formally involved with JVDS..I have often wondered if any of them have been questioned..IMHO, I feel that there are probably many women who have been involved with JVDS, contrary to what AVDS has said about there only being 2...I feel they could give everyone insight into how he reacts to women....

<<

I know I am caustic and wonder if I offend or up the volume.  Going to just lurk for a bit in hopes of a more moderate tone.  But on other list, it was much worse than this one over weekend.  Total assault, bash and trash about everything under sun.

Bad as we were, it was worse elsewhere.  I think more folks had time over the weekend to post was the reason, many free from work.  But I do wish it would stay more on topic and others would not take this opportunity to inform us of everything wrong and negative about us, our culture and country.  Most are completely aware of these opinions and do not need to hear them hourly.  Repetition is not going to change much.

And if the board can be tied up answering the same questions several times a day, this might be more to the liking of some who for whatever reasons do not want the truth be told or do not like what they are reading.  If they can't silence us, they can keep us busy defending our opinions or repeating the same over and over.  I continue to be surprised at how many will ask the same questions that have been answered so many times that it is hard to believe they missed the information after constant repetition both here and in the media.

OTOH, how are we to keep abreast of new developments or get answers to our questions?  So, don't know but think things will tone down with people back at work today.  But I do not get the "look at the victim, fam and friends" concept in such graphic and forensic detail.  It doesn't matter unless there is evidence this pertains in some way and in this case, to date, there is none.  It becomes just elaborate victim bashing which is painful to fam and friends.  Unless there is a connection or a real reason to do so, I just think they should be off limits.  Proof of a reason BEFORE bashing victim.  I don't see even anything suspect there in this case, pretty straightforward.  They have been interrogated and think if reasons existed they have long been brought forward and until they are, it is just beyond speculation.  Others seem to think differently and think the victim should some how be deemed worthy before there can even be suspects.  Odd thinking that, at least to me.

m'kay... you need a lil' time away from the ol' computer my friend...

Actually, I have no "m.o"..and i wasnt going to , nor do i think i have ever called anyone a troll....It is attitudes such as this that are posing such a problem here..everyone occasionally makes mistakes, and I do not think every small one should be constantly pointed out, and in such a derrogatory manner... :twisted:

quote="bgcntry7221 years old is not a 'teenager'.
It's just a correction, but feel free to get angry and call me a 'troll'.
I know your M.O.[/quote]


That is an inciting statement!

21 years old is not a teenager, but it is a time a of youth and i know plenty of single young males in their early 20's (and some a bit beyond) that are very prideful of their vehicles.  so, i don't find deepak to be any different.

Thanks Bama..that was the point I was TRYING  to make ... :D

Its getting close to 1pm and there is nobody posting ?  How odd.   :shock:

Ahh .. nevermind, the board's time is an hour behind my time.  Nevermind !!!

That's because there's no news :(

What happened to run Dash off?

Has anyone heard the report of the married woman who went missing in the past couple of days from a cruise ship in Cozumel?
Going there soon on a cruise, little nervous.

One thing I would ask women who have been with Joran is if they were ever at the Marriott beach with him at night, and if they were, exactly where did he take them.  Perhaps there is evidence of Natalee at these spots.

I fixed the time difference ... Now I understand there is posting.  I thought the last post was at 11something ....  :oops:

all better now.

no probs iquitos

i keep running this thing through my head - that maybe there's something out there that we've missed and the second story is true - but i keep coming back to the lie, gerold dompig and the confession, something bad happened. it all keeps coming back to joran.

if the kalpoes can be verified as being at home - logged on to their computers, using mobile phones etc, that brings us back to joran. joran on the beach at the marriott...joran claiming to walk home and framing it with a phone call and a text message?....so we're down to the time between 2 am when the kalpoes supposedly arrived at home and 2:40 when he left a voice mail. how was his voice? could you hear anyone in the background?

here's a link
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/headline/world/3241121

What happened that Dash was run off this weekend.  Also MBHS05---what happened to both girls.  I also have barely seen AmericaninAruba on here.  I usually only post when I know def details or have a strong feeling/question to ask...but I have noticed no one responding to my posts or mine get deleted out when someone is quoting--it's not a good feeling--cuz I am concerned and want to help or whatever in this matter also!  I even ghost the trolls!

Steve's X -wife and son are  @ the jail waiting for his release.

lol, Kristy.  It's okay.  It's Monday!!!!   :lol:

The 'I don't have a real job so I sit here and create drama with overreactions' crowd got into it with the 'I just found this board and can't believe how seriously these people take themselves' crowd.
People called each other trolls, or character assassins, and other pleasant names.
I, for one, was on my boat, with my family, away from the wired world.
Some of you need a real hobby, not just 'concerned housewife'.
My $.02.

Dash showed a lot of courage to be here in the first place.  It can't be easy to talk openly about a friend disappearing like this.  

I don't blame her if she never comes back, but I will say that I respect her for her strength and wish her the best of luck in the future.

For her sake I pray that they find her friend.

Very good question..i wonder if he DOES have regular spots he frequents..hmmm...

Thanks Tkubi7.  Pretty uneasy about the upcoming trip.
Thanks Again

Hi Everyone..  just got caught up reading..!!

Was it a voice mail at 2:40? If so, why didn't Satish answer the phone? I know the latter question can't be answered by us.

I think over the weekend that this board attracted some people who are sympathetic to Joran...maybe some Arubans. Plus the blame-the-victim crowd.

WHY some people have to believe the worst about Natalee and the MB kids, I have no idea. Some people have this pathological thing that if a girl is pretty and/or rich, she brings things on herself. Disgusting.

We have GOT to keep our eyes on the fact that NATALEE is the VICTIM. And quit feeling sorry for Joran and his dysfunctional family. (I do have some sympathy for the Kalpoes' mom.)

I went to Jamaica last week after the american tourist was murdered and everybody just stayed on the resort properties.  Everybody had planned on going to Dunns river falls, but too many "bad" things happening to Americans in the caribbean right now.

But we also have to keep in mind that there's always a possibility that they are innocent. We just don't know enough facts or have enough evidence. Yes, they lied, we know that. But that's about ALL we know.

Well said.

Anyone on that speaks pap. I think they are discussing the case on Top 95

i hate that for dash.  i thought she was very brave in coming on here and answering "monkey questions".  what about mbhs05?  was she run off as well?

you're right bob - i think i've read it was a voicemail BUT that is not stated in the CNN article

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/26/aruba.missing/index.html

Kock said those records show Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. on the morning Holloway disappeared.[/url]

David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said Sunday he felt the investigation was moving in the right direction, noting that police scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the probe.

Kock said those records show Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. on the morning Holloway disappeared.

The lawyer said in that call, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told Kalpoe he left Holloway on the beach and was walking home.

Koch said that about 40 minutes later -- about the time it would take him to walk home -- Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe to tell him he had arrived.

"I just think this goes to show that the story that Deepak and Satish are telling ... is substantiated by facts," Kock said

VERY well said

MBHS05 is at camp this week.

There were a bunch of new posters here that were convinced that vdS and the Kalpoes  were innocent.  They were making remarks about Natalee that did not portray her in the best of lights.  This was happening for a couple of hours before Dash arrived, and was in full swing when she showed up,  The new posters did not know who she was.  Dash apparently started reading some of the posts, which were not directed to her, and took objection to them.  She seemed very upset by the posts and finally said she was leaving.   The admins had a very hard time that day.  People were upset that one of their friends was banned the day prior.  A 17 year old girl came on and whined about how Natalee ruined her vacation, her parents cancelled her trip to some island somewhere.  I tried to side step the whole thing.  I tried to contribute on-topic, respectful posts so that I could, as much as possible, contribute in a positive way.  I thought it might dilute some of the negativity.  Perhaps the folks that obey the rules around here should band together when trolls enter and drown them out by setting a good example.  Thoughts?

Thanks shataken. Watching my back for sure.

"text-messaged" meaning "sent a text message via cell phone" or meaning "emailed from home computer" ?  

Why would he send a message to confirm her got home? Was there a prior arrangement to pick him up?

What the phone call and text message record tells you:
1. He did exactly what he said he had done started to walk at 2:40 and arrived home 40 minutes later - but this begs the question - why would he announce his whereabouts and itinerary to Deepak at that time of day.
2. He was covering up something and sent the messages to establish a time line for a future cover.
3. Deepak was with him or had been with him and knew something bad had happened and this was code for help is on the way, job done.

I have to admit I don't understand the appeal of "Low riders" at all

esp in Canada during the winter, saw some fool driving a low rider when there was ice and snow on the road, I think I heard the crunching

I like a nice shiny sports car, bright colours, stripes, the neon lights the kids put on the cars, I love spoilers but the two inches off the ground thing- I don't get it

Dont you enjoy reading posts? I mean.. you're here also just like the rest of us!!  Hope you had a lovely time on your boat.

Hello everyone.  This is my second post and I had some technical issues last night so I'm hoping that all goes well this second time around.

My thought is that this is more of an elaborate scheme, a smokescreen.  We have been told different stories in relation to where Natalee may have been droped off that night, which is of concern to me. It is really hard to get a grasp on what if any of what has been relayed to us is credible. Of course, our ability to test different scenarios is compromised by not having more knowledge surrounding the events of May 30.  I have very little doubt that there are more answers out there that have not been disclosed in relation to this dissapearance.  The suspects, primarily, Joran have more information he's not disclosed in my estimation.

It makes no sense to me why Joran would let Deepak know he was home.  There is more to this than meets the eye.

OK. Now I've seen it all. Fox news just aired a FOX NEWS ALERT:
Flowers delivered to the Van der Sloot home.
I'm not kidding.

FOX News ALERT!! Flowers delivered to VDS home, Anita and Paulus not at home, card was in Dutch, an unidentified lady came to the gate, smiled and took the flowers in.

Stay tuned for fair and balanced details on this exciting development as they unfold.

Are they from Geraldo or Greta - or the monkey?

Riehl just reported on his site that there is a HIT with the dogs in some quarry near the VDS home. Divers are coming in.

Has anyone heard anything else about the investigation into the security guards from the beach concert that were staying at the HI? Did they really investigate this or was this just rumor?

I thought i heard that too a little earlier.. BUT I didnt want to say anyhitng on here if I wasnt sure.. !! I guess Im not loosing my mind afterall.!! :lol:

Interesting read by Clint Van Zandt, considering his FBI background.  Nothing new but he does go through the various theories and responds to them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8376303/

it has been theorized that he may have called asking for a lift home since deepak apparently stayed up at night on his computer. we know nothing to support this

you may be right about two and three, but if that was the case, why not work out your story better so you don't have to change it. these bulbs all seem rather dim to me.

Dan Post at Riehl

Breaking Aruba

Just had a communication from Aruba - search dogs have gotten a "hit" in quarry near the Van der Sloot house, dive team being rounded up.

As posted yesterday, today's grids covered areas more accessible for the boy(s) working on a tight timeline.

I'm told there will be a press conferece at 1PM. Also, dogs said to not false alarm for non-human remains. Appears find is in very deep water of quarry, quarry was once drained and a corpse suspected to have been there for approximately ten years was discovered at that time.

Posted by Dan in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

Breaking news - from Riehl World:



http://www.riehlworldview.com/

Yikes..

I had a hard time finding the site today?????/  Anyway so I looked at the blog (the one we use to use before this) and there are people claiming to be psychic and it is pretty interesting.  Anyone else seen that.

Just wonder if location of call could be identified by cell tower location that handled the call(S)

did the delivery "boy" have a mustache???  :lol:

I'm watching FOX news and watching an outpouring of support as people line up to deliver flowers. . . . .

. . . .to the van der Sloots!

I cannot adequately express my thoughts at this moment. So, I will just leave you with that image.

I think you do not understand the cell phone and text messaging habits of teenagers or young people

my one nephew teases his brother because he does basically the same thing only worse, he'll be one minute from arriving at X's house and has to call X to say I'm almost at the door, it's like an addiction, how did we ever get through our teenage years without one, barbaric huh

good morning monkeys  :)

I have a few things about the phone calls and statements made the 1st few days of Natalee's disappearance.
First off, wasn't it one of the brother's statement that Joran called them about an hour after they dropped him off and joran had said; "I  have to tell you what happened, I'll be online in about an hour when I get home?"
I'm wondering what ever happened to that version and what exactly did he have to tell them??????  Raises too many questions????

On another note; another shark attack just in with teen in fla. 40 miles from fridays attack, WTH?

Theres know knew news

Any truth to this? I read over on RW that "WE" had said a body had been found... It's like reading in circles...

Dash did not get run off.  She chose to announce that she was leaving the board.  There were no personal attacks or character assasinations.  

Dash knew NH personally and she is a 17-18 year old kid.  Therefore, it's understandable that she might take some comments personally that a 25+ year old who has no personal relationship with NH would not.    A similar reaction might be had if personal friends of Joran read these threads.

For adults, talking about the possibility of sex, drugs, and alcohol are not character attacks, they are normal behaviors by the majority of adults.  

Personally, I thought Dash (and mbhs05) provided some good insight to the board in the first few weeks, as people were looking to get an idea of who NH was and what happened.   At this point, all the background info is out there, and anything else that Dash knows is probably being witheld to keep from interferring with LE.  She implied that she knew alot more (knew Joran was guilty...), but whether that is true or not doesn't really matter.  If she does know more, I'm sure the people who need to know it also know it.

From Riehlworld website:

Breaking Aruba
Just had a communication from Aruba - search dogs have gotten a "hit" in quarry near the Van der Sloot house, dive team being rounded up.

As posted yesterday, today's grids covered areas more accessible for the boy(s) working on a tight timeline.

I'm told there will be a press conferece at 1PM. Also, dogs said to not false alarm for non-human remains. Appears find is in very deep water of quarry, quarry was once drained and a corpse suspected to have been there for approximately ten years was discovered at that time.

A front spoiler is commonly positioned under the front bumper to reduce aerodynamic drag. A rear spoiler is used to create down force to help increase traction during acceleration

I know how you feel..

No, but we are all over this flower delivery story. We own it.

Fox hasnt said anything yet about the dogs or the quarry..
they actually said no news as of yet about the search...
I cant get over the flower BS either.. WTF?

Holy Cow--I am at work with no access to TV--only foxnews online--which seems to be behind---

Hearing this makes me think a couple different outcomes-----now I am anxious!

Fox just showed a live news cast of the searchers and said nothing has been found so far, and no new developments in search.

Now might be a good time to say a little prayer for the family...

Are these the mines that folks wanted to have searched?

I'm a lurker - never post; just read. But I saw the post that mentioned an American tourist being killed in Jamaica. Can someone tell me more abot that or give a link?   thanks very much

Wonder what kind of arrest/conviction rate these Aruba LE guys have. I really think they must be very pissed the Curacao judge released PVDS.

Sends an unmistakeable message to Perfect Joran that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM! Obvious that LE had PVDS in to bvluff a confession out of Joran, which they need very badly. As soon as thje fathers arrest was known to Joran, he must have realized all he has to do is keep quiet and wait it out. Sad.

The Aruba LE blew the best chance at physical evidence by noit seizing vehicles and searching immediately post arrest(s).

Acted like a southern rural Department in the '30's. Let the 3 go for days and days while rousting those two security guards very thouroughly.

So, the prejudice of the society has in a way, sacrificed the poor girl and all of us as the investigation was probably ruined right there.

By the way, that's a pretty big ocean. To think that she would have been buried or hidden landward is ridiculous.

So sorry Miss Natalie. I cried for you in the tears of last Saturday as my blonde daughter was taking her marriage vows.

Nice thought.. I have done so already!

Now THAT'S funny.

May 29th Sunday/  May 30th Monday.

8am-10pm  
Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .
Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar. Any report of pot or heavy drinking?

2pm-7?pm.  
Did Nat take a nap?, shower, shopping drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?            
Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young son Valentijn? Did Joran pick up his father?

7pm-11pm       
MUSIC CONCERT Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill, Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh.  Chances are that did Joran meet Natalee here?  Did Mickey Jones meet Natalee and or Joran here?  Was Satish here?  Deepak was working at the Internet café. Was SGC here as well? Where the Security Guards looking for targets? Any report of pot or heavy drinking?

8pm-10pm   
Joran won 4th place in a Poker Tournament?  Was it here that Natalee met Joran for the first time? Reports from Bill O’Reilly, fellow MB student said that Joran may? have met Nat 2 to 3 days before.

11pm      
Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds. Deepak closes the Internet café and little brother Satish picks Deepak up.  They then head to Jorans house to pick go to CnC.

11.30pm-1.30am.       
Carlos and Charlies. About 40 Mountain Brook student were here eating or drinking.  Scuffle broke out, reason unknown. Bryan Reynolds, 18, "There was almost a fight between my friend and him," Reynolds said they were the first people he considered as potential suspects. That was the first people who came to mind," said Reynolds, who said Holloway is one of his best friends. [http://www.postherald.com/me061005.shtml]

12.00am-1.30am       
Joran sneaks out, arrives with Kalpoes Brothers. Scuffle with Mountain Brook male student.

1.30am-2.30am      
Cruising at California Lighthouse, Fisherman’s Hut/ Arashi Beach?

Deepak and Satish drops off Joran near the Marriot Inn

2.30am-3.00am      
Joran’ s house??, Drowing, OD,Hazing, Kidnapped by SBF security?

2.40am      Joran calls Deepak via Cellphone?

3.30am      Joran reaches home at Montana #9

no post that there is a positive hit in the quarry here that i saw. did red or tom post it o main page.

I'll second that....

Steven Croes (according to Geraldo and others) voluntarily went to the police and said he saw the boys drop Natalee off at the HI.

This explains why the police believed the boys.

To me, this is why the case has problems. If Croes had not lied, the trail to Natalee would have been clearer. I'm surprised that Croes isn't being prosecuted for filing a false report, tampering with an investigation, something.

But why would Croes do this? What's his motivation? I could see if he was saying, why, no, those boys coudn't have stolen that candy bar because I saw them elsewhere. This wasn't trivial. A girl was missing.

So why did he do it? Friendship is just not a good enough answer. What do the boys know about Croes that would make him agreeable to lie for them?

On a lighter note: Do you think PVdS will do another interview with Greta :lol:

Are you sure that the scuffle with Joran and the mb students were at CNC's that night.  I heard it was earlier in the week.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves on the post about Riehl saying the dogs got a hit at a quarry. We went through enough of that the night of 6-10 when CNN said there had been a confession.

I was just over on Riehls site and saw it just posted, thought i would share it.

That's all  :?:

Agree... But we can hope & pray that it is true.

I knew exactly what you meant...it was pretty clear to me.  Many young adults still have the teen mentality....goodness...age doesn't necessarily equate to maturity....and that was certainly proven this past weekend....what a mess...I finally turned my computer off....shameful what some people feel they have a right to say...why?  just cause.  And when the administrators feel the need to ban a poster...I respect their right to do so, without question.  

Umm  Nikki and Momto5..  you gals still here??

Yellow Ribbon,

I agree. I said last week that I feel that if the TX team can't find anything by today, they won't find anything at all. These folks are professional searchers, and if they can find something in TX, a place as small as Arubs should be a snap. I have to keep believing she's alive somewhere and will be found...

Im here sorta (giving baths and making lucnh ya know the drill  :wink: )

I suspect Joran the player [Don't hate the player hate the game - a slogan noted on his website taken from the song by some rapper]
had a regular ungentlmanly habit of describing his sexual encounters to his homeys

so I would not find his message unusual on the face of it, he could be explaining he had the best sex of his life, or he's met the girls of his dreams or that she was some prude who wasted his time, use your imagination

even teenage girls do that, rehash their exploits with their girlfriends

are we all so far away from that time

we didn't have cell phones or computers so we couldn't call each other up at 3:00am, not without getting in trouble with the parents, and as it was my parents were always trying to get us off the phone - like my mother would say, why are you talking an hour on the phone with someone you are going out with tonight, will you have anything left to talk about tonight.......

Omg, its raining so hard we lost out sat. signal .... and fox is about to come on with the release  :(

i know this is off topic, but momto5, can i just say that as a mom to 2, my hat is off to you!!!!   :)

Well I don't get FOX at all so I am sitting on pins and needles until I hear here what is happening there

dogs said to not false alarm for non-human remains


Hi all my english grammer is maso menos
What is meant in the above sentence

The dogs don't make a mistake - if they smell something they are on the mark

bendex,

it means the dogs will not indicate if they find non-human (other animal) remains

a "hit" would indicate human remains exclusively

i take it to mean that the dogs are not prone to false alarms.  they will only express a "HIT" if they find something that is indeed a human remain.  for example, they would not mistake dead monkey remains for dead human remains.

Other question for people who live in aruba,

Has there been a history of sexual assaults on Aruba
And if so is there a pattern ?

SC been set free as per FOX..

I couldn't agree more. Let's wait for the facts.

    It means they're trained to react only to the scent of human remains, as opposed to animal remains.

Well let's hope that she will be found alive but that would be a real miracle at this point. I just hope that the family will find her so they can come home. I wouldn't be too discouraged if they can't find her today. If the Island is 19 x 7 miles that is 133 square miles. There is also a lot of water to search.

Just find her.

Unlike pregnancy tests - they don't yeild false positives

Means that dogs being used may have found a scent of a human being, not something other such as garbage for example.

I agree with what you're saying, but in light of the brothers lieing along with joran as to what happened the night in question, raises too many questions for me.  I do beleive there's more than lieing for a friend here.....something happened that would or could potentionally place all 3 responsible for her disappearance. I mean friendship only goes so far.....IMO

This is what I assume as well.  :(

Innocent untill proven guilty !

Maybe at 2.40 Joran was hoping to get a ride, Deepak said he went home and it too late to drive all the way to the beach....Joran says he will walk hope and text msg him later...since the road is dark at night.

I agree. You never know whose reading what you wrote, and without more facts in front of us we really dont know what happened. We can speculate all day and it doesnt make is true.

I agree, although it is difficult to do.  But remember, nobody will be convicted because of the opinions stated here.

i think there were two.

 google aruba scuffle and you will find the articles one source is reynolds and another beau.

DITTO that......have only CNN and they're saying Nothing, not ziltch!

Good morning, everyone, btw.  8)

Breaking Aruba

Just had a communication from Aruba - search dogs have gotten a "hit" in quarry near the Van der Sloot house, dive team being rounded up.

As posted yesterday, today's grids covered areas more accessible for the boy(s) working on a tight timeline.

I'm told there will be a press conferece at 1PM. Also, dogs said to not false alarm for non-human remains. Appears find is in very deep water of quarry, quarry was once drained and a corpse suspected to have been there for approximately ten years was discovered at that time.

FROM RIEHLVIEW


SL

Another thing is that they really obviously dont have a strong case against the boys.  Just because their story changed (if I were interrogated/tortured 11 hours a day my story may change out of fear also).  He has not confessed even when they had his da, he probably is not going to.  They may not have done it.  It could very well may be someone else.  SO please yall lets remember this when you all start slamming them.

top o' the mornin' to ya as well.  :)

I totally agree with you..I have resorted to "lurk" mode on this board because it gets too heated for me with so many accusations being flung around.  I am ready for the facts/truth to be released.  I think once the facts are out, it will be interesting to go back and read what has been posted...everywhere :?

Or, maybe Joran HAS confessed and said his dad knew nothing about it.

Sometimes being convicted of peers and people you dont know is more damaging than convicted in court.

<<

This would have most likely been already checked in this country where we have more personnel to apply to a case of this nature, especially given the teasing of Joren about "roofies" on one of those websites where he is featured but where would the LE in Aruba even begin for the tragets would not likely be locals.  And remember the practice is to hit girls their last night on vacation so they leave still fuzzy-headed and not thinking clearly.

Girls this young might wonder what happened or think they just passed out or not be able to remember if the sex was consensual or not or even if it happened.  That is part of the point of date rape drugs, the victim cannot remember what happened.  Know a girl who has a baby from just such attack, no idea who the father is and did not realize she was pregnant because she had no recollection of sex. She was in her seventh month before she realized she was even pregnant, thinking she had not had sex and so could not possibly be.  Now being tested every three months for AIDS, too.

These drugs destroy lives and have built in protection for the perpetrators.  But every ssupected sexual predator is investigated for other victims as the establishment of a pattern is admissible evidence in court.  Again, differences in legal systems but might also be admissable in Aruba if there are others and they would come forward.

Our young women must be protected and deserve better than this.  Stiffer sentencing may be required to convice those who would use these drugs that it is just not worth doing so.  It is about far more than just taking sexual advantage of a female for kicks which is bad enough, it has the potential to totally destory lives.

Just my opinion.

If they find a body, a confession is more likely.

Morning Wench.. Well.. afternoon here in PA..lol
BTW:  Love the avitar.. ha ha ha ha  Cute!

Fox Reported SC released and left by side door of station.

ya know.  i was just thinking.  the authorities or someone should take the information that reihlworld has about the cadaver dogs finding a hit in that quarry near the VDS home, and present that info before young joran, and ask him, "now son, do you have anything further to add?"  i bet that would be very interesting!!!

I see it's another bad hair day.... :wink:

I would be happy to apologize to anyone I have suspected or accused in my mind once the facts come out.  My gut tells me the liars are lying for a reason and NH's mother's instincts are right on.  If I'm wrong about Joran, I will glady apologize for all the ugly feelings I have for him.

True, but you know the thing is, is that some of these people in jail or being released could easily be reading our posts, since this board is so popular.

Possible body found in quarry by search dogs--
I found this info on riehlfworldview:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/breaking_aruba.html

hehe...dontcha jus luv it?

CNN is also saying no sign.  And they are at the site now.

Sorry guys , you will probably hate me for saying this .
I dont think Joran is guilty to the disapearance of natelee maby responsible for leaving her alone on the beach but not guilty in her dissapearance .

I not going to put more energy in fitting in rumours to these 3 boys , I am going to explore the non obvious route.

PEOPLE!!!! Please go back and at least read 2 or 3 pages when you first log on.  We've been reading for 5 or 6 pages now about the "hit" by the dogs at the quarry.  We don't need it posted over and over and over and over.

IMO me either.

Update

Word spreading through media, American media cooperating, hanging back. Dutch media swarming, getting in way. Diver's expected to go in around 2PM as of last report.


http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/update_.html

Joren text messages kalpoe, kalpoe hits the beach.

It is reasonable to question why a suspect is lying during the coarse of an investigation.  Usually it is to protect him or herself and others involved.  True, thease are alleged alligations but we also have reason to believe that suspects being detained have more information that's been revieled.

can't find #2 anymore.  don't have a date on #1.

excerpts

Holloway’s friends saw van der Sloot both in the casino at the hotel where they were staying and at Carlos’N Charlies’, and a friend of Holloway said van der Sloot , a tall, broad-shouldered athlete , got into a scuffle with some of the Mountain Brook guys at the bar.

“I broke it up,” said Bryan Reynolds, 18. “It was outside the Carlos’N Charlies’ the second night we were there.”

Reynolds didn’t elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren’t publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway’s family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation.

l Metro/State l   
 
Suspect was in pushing match

Man had scuffle with some of Holloway's friends

By DANIEL JACKSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD

One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

DW...I agree that I think they are lying about something, but I don't know what.  I have speculated earlier on the board...but I just can't handle some of the "nastiness."  It usually happens later in the day/evening, so I just keep my fingers from typing....I guess I am too sensitive :?  I do, however, enjoy reading what people think, but truly, I am eager to reread posts once this is solved (soon would be nice but :?: ) just to see how close some people have come to the truth.  I like your new monkey post :)

Best line that I've read in days... :mrgreen:

Remember, Dash said last evening - we know more than you and he is guilty - I am not suggesting she knows everything but she probably does know more than us - I wonder how concrete that evidence is

Thank you.

<<

What is your source that they had absolutely nothing to do with it?  At the least Croes lied and said he saw them return NH to the HI, assisting in the arrest of two innocent people and throwing LE off during the most critical time.  I call that something to do with it.  I think he well deserved whatever bad press he got for doing that unless you are saying it is OK to try to deceive LE like that.  I doubt that is what you mean, is it?

And the dad did tell Joren not to tell anything.  You have to wonder why but in any event it will not be known until there is a trial the extent of their involvement so how can you say with such certainty that they had absolutely nothing to do with it?

Lying for a friend is still something, isnt it?  And I do not mean to flame but think this is just the opposite of what you are accusing others of doing, declaring somebody totally innocent when he corroberated a false story.  We still don't have all the facts and certainly not enough to absolve anybody just as we do not have enough to declare them guilty.

The original false story might not have been believed had not this witness backed it up.  This was during very crucial time, too.

So while we cannot declare anybody guilty, it works both ways that we also cannot declare them innocent based on what information is currently available.

 :oops: Sorry! Was on my way out, plus I know when big news hits, sometimes it's easier on people just joining to have an update . But I did not know there had been many postings. :oops:

I have been on this website reading since the onslaught of this tragedy, I don't care to post but, have been wanting to share the following.  I will try to make it short and sweet, I still get all anxious when I try to explain.

Some years ago a friend and I went to Ixtapa, Mexico.  We traveled alot together taking 1 trip each year.  I was in my mid 20's at the time, partier, wild and somewhat streetwise and roudy.  On the 3rd day there my friend was real sick (Montezumas).  We had been hanging around 2 local guys that worked at our hotel.  I didn't want to sit in the room with my sick friend so I went off with one of the guys we had been hanging around.  No big deal, I wasnn't scared or threatened in any way.  We walked down the beach and sat by the water when all of a suddedn 2 Federales came up on us like the swat team.  One had his foot on the chest of the local with his shotgun in his face laying flat on the sand and the other pointed his gun in my face and yelled "up" and started saying "coca".  He then put the barrel of his gun at my waistline on my shirt and yelled "up".  I got mad!!  A memory of something an aunt told me years earlier rose up in me and the movie Midnight Express came to my mind and I knew I had to get off the beach.  One cop had a hold of my arm and I punched him and ran as fast as one can through the sand and got to a hotel at the end of hotel row and took 2 to 3 steps at a time to get inside.  I was held there all night long until I escaped the following morning.  I tell you, I was prepared to die that night, I was so mad I wasn't really scared.  I told them they'd rape me over my dead body and I meant it.  As long as I was inside the hotel they wouldn't attack, they needed me outside and all night tried to trick me into going out.  I stood my ground all night yelled at them "You can't do this to me I'm American!"  I kept giving them the ole screw you fist in the air.  They were so mad and so ready to take me out but I fought hard!!  

Sorry so long, there is so much more I could share about that night but I don't want to babble.  Gotta go and chill, my whole body is shakin from sharing this, not out of fear but of anger.  

I now know, if you don't want to be exposed to danger or corruption while in another Country, DO NOT leave the Resort premises!!

Which you could be right and I could be wrong.  I was just saying we shouldnt be so mean in the things we say about them untiil we KNOW.
And I think Fox would have aired the story if they found something, they are tight there at it.

Being the devil's advocate, eh?  It's good that all sides are represented here.  I wish Joran was innocent of committing a crime against NH because he seems to have bright future ahead of him.  I wish it was a slime ball that everyone could love to hate.  Families and lives are destroyed.  I hope we all have answers soon.

Anyone with Fox? Any word yet on this HIT with the dogs?

The natalee dissapearance has a sort of a proffesional fragrece to it . The person responsible for her dissapearance is not a first timer .

I forgive you. :)

no word on Fox

Please, folks. Please stop telling us to go back and read the posts and not to repost the "hit." We don't need it posted over and over and over and over.

Twelve Monkeys:

Best. Avatar. Ever.

If you were in the shoes of these boys would you want people judging you.  None of us are judges in the case and none of us are God.  SO who are we to cast judgement.  They are very tight lipped and almost every theory that we came up with has been blown.  Its called innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Not a Word

[/b] Does anyone one speak Pap?  Steves mom said she would talk to Aruban press first.  They have been discussing this case for a while. I can't understand much except the names.  Teo are you on?

 :(  I just got a new one  :wink:

Thanks gagirl, I thought there might be since the update is saying media is around the sight.

This...coming from the poster of the "Former victims of JVDS lurking on this board, please contact the FBI" posts.  I think I've read that one about 10 million times there Proffy.

Good investigators explore all possible scenarios with evidence gathered, yes among a whole host of information, patterns, etc.

inthepacific :

I'll let you know if anything gets said.

If I want a body to dissapear I put it in a freezer no dog , no infared plane can detect that.

Update

Word spreading through media, American media cooperating, hanging back. Dutch media swarming, getting in way. Diver's expected to go in around 2PM as of last report.

from RW

SL

Thanks, what would we do without you?

That's where I hide my bodies.

Fox and CNN both showed live shots of the divers a little while ago, and it didnt look like anything was going on and they said there were no signs.  But who knows.

mucho gracias gagirl!

Thank-you!

 :mrgreen:

I remember hearing either this morning or late last evening that a member of TexasEquusearch said he thiught they would find her today....did anyone else her that?   And now there is a rumor that the dogs have a 'hit'.  Could it be the reason PVDS was released and agreed to talk re: Joren is that Joren has confessed...to an accident? And PVDS will atttest that this is what he was told?  Perhaps I am reaching...but TXE is good...these guys are trained experts and I was amazed that Tim made that statement.  

Now we wait and pray.

I heard that last night as well.

 :shock:


 :lol: I won't tell  :wink:

That may be why there is nothing on FOX or CNN news......is there anyone here who can get the Aruban news?

edited once

Maybe they dont want to look stupid again by saying something again without 100% verification.

I have to agree...a statement like "we will find her today" makes you wonder if there isn't a confession. I mean how could they be so sure? Good observation Sunny!

I just had a creepy thought. Suppose Joran and the Kalpoes are actually being held in protective custody rather than being detained as suspects? It would explain the fact that none of them has confessed yet, and it would also explain why we hear so many vague and conflicting stories about what they've said or not said.
    Are the authorities waiting for this to blow over, and the Holloways and the camera crews to go home? For the public to lose interest in the case?
   I realize the above theory sounds farfetched, but this is such a bizarre case that almost anything seems possible.

Any one know how deep this is?  From a diving perspective, there is deep and then DEEP.

Did it strike you as strange? I was immediately taken back by the statement.

I think this is it. They may have just found Natalee.

A hit in a location that is known to have had human remains previously.

Which radio station?

Sorry Guys, I just arrived home...missed all the action.

I did read just now about the hit from the search team, but my contact on Aruba said that it was old news, and the same thing I read here also, but why o why is this just showing up at Riel World View, and when rechecking they just placed an UPDATE about 10 minutes agio???

Are they so behind the news??? Or did they received new information about a new hit???

According to my wife about the mother of Steve Croes:
She said that she is happy that her son got released abd that she knew from the beginning that her son was inocent and that she did not have any proof but only her motherheart talking.

She herself is sick, and she need treatment at Curacao but she wil spend some time with her son first at Aruba.

According to the mother her son is a very soft person, even when she is receiving treatment her son can not stay with her, because he can´t stand to see her suffer. And that he is a very jolly person. During the whole time that her son was detained, she wasn´t allowed to see her son. She respected that decision that she could not see her son.

Thats more or less what my wife recals from the interview the mother gave to Top FM 95

Greetings Teo

<<

Surely we do not hate each other because of differences of opinions  :!:   No, I always try to read even more carefully and give full consideration to those who do not agree with me to try to understand their reasons why.  I, for one, really like the different input and opinion because I want to know why one would think as they do about the situation and so consider things I might not have thought about before.  How else could we get that perspective?

I do like it to be reasonable, logical and well-thought-out of course, not just blindly defending somebody but when it is logical and factual, I always feel I need to know that info.  If we all agreed, would not make for much of a discussion and I think those whose opinions are different than my own are the most likely to tell me something I do not already know.  I think most of us are pretty open and receptive to any new facts and theories, at least I know I am.

Yes. That will be quite an image if simultaneously they are finding the remains of Natalee Holloway near the home.

Yes, I wonder if this cadaver dog is SO good that he's detecting the scent of the old remains.

SunnyinTX:

Nice observations.

My taughts

The timeframe does not ad up, it takes a very calculated and cool person to make a person dissapear. Supposedly three panick strucken wankers cannot do all this in a small timeframe of supposedly 2 hours.

And I think that natalee has not been murdered on the night of the 30th of may. I think they harmed her the days afterwards.  
 
Joran does not fit the profile.

Steve's Mom just said: Steve Croes was in internet café... he overheard a conversation of Deepak on the telephone... he went to police to tell them about the conversation... and was arrested.

She might come back later if she finds out more info.

She says Steve is NOT friends with the Kalpoe brothers.

Hmmm per FOX.. SC went to the police because he was at the interent cafe and heard Deepak on the phone.. now the reporter dont know what he heard OR what time it was.. ughhhh....

TOP 95

So much commercial on Top today..whatdup?

This is not a good sign

That's interesting, but not enough info.  Getting little tidbits is so frustrating.  WHAT conversation???  The conversation where they concocted the lie?

Angela  "Aruba Today", is talking !

WTF this reporter saying now that Kalpoe brothers didint even know JVDS???  This is BIZARRE...and SC not friends with them either?
Sounds to me she may have slipped something..

She said they werent even friends. he just overheard a conversation and went to the police to tell them what he heard. The police felt he must have some involvement based on what he told them he heard. Wonder what he heard?

This is not a good sign

Then again - did they not say Steve corroborated the boys alibi - so he would have heard something that supported the boys - guess I am getting confused

That doesn't make any sense at all.  Both parents admit the boys knew each other.

Sandra.. Is Aruba girl on the radio???

Dash did not get run off.  She chose to announce that she was leaving the board.  There were no personal attacks or character assasinations.  

Dash knew NH personally and she is a 17-18 year old kid.  Therefore, it's understandable that she might take some comments personally that a 25+ year old who has no personal relationship with NH would not.    A similar reaction might be had if personal friends of Joran read these threads.

For adults, talking about the possibility of sex, drugs, and alcohol are not character attacks, they are normal behaviors by the majority of adults.  

Personally, I thought Dash (and mbhs05) provided some good insight to the board in the first few weeks, as people were looking to get an idea of who NH was and what happened.   At this point, all the background info is out there, and anything else that Dash knows is probably being witheld to keep from interferring with LE.  She implied that she knew alot more (knew Joran was guilty...), but whether that is true or not doesn't really matter.  If she does know more, I'm sure the people who need to know it also know it.[/quote]

That was pretty much the way I saw it as well.........

Teo, Camp, What are they saying now?

If this has been answered, please forgive my ignorance:

Exactly what is the location of the quarry to the VdS home?

There are also numerous photos of them together from their websites.

delete

Steve do NOT Know  Joran....Never did.

I agree Wench.. maybe she has her facts messed up ...

They are just now saying on Top 95 that indeed the Texas team got a hit near JvdS house

So I will keep Top 95 on for now...if there is any confirmation I will let you know.

www.arubadag.com

Is it possible that there isn't a confession, but they actually got the "hit" last night and wanted to make sure that the family was notified first, before the press started swarming in?

It is a circus!!!  They are holding people for no reason whatsoever.  This in unhumane.

Maybe the flowers were sent to throw the dogs off

Excellent Point EMom.

Thank you SO much Teo... aprreciate it.. keep us posted!!

 :?  I'm listening and all I hear is music, then some weird elevator music.

Perhaps he is not allowed to tell that information IF it's true....he might be a prosecution witness and if he told it would more than likely not be admissable??  I feel in my soul a conclusion is very near....anyone else got that feeling??

I am afraid Dash may have been more hurt by Frances Ellen Byrd's comment on Greta " Her GOOD friends would not have let her get in that taxi".
I have the feeling that Dash's "Mother" instincts ("Are you OK Natalee?", checking the other bars making sure no one was left behind,etc.) may have let her down and Frances Ellen's comment cut to the quick.

That was pretty much the way I saw it as well.........[/quote]

I too found that NOBODY ran her off this board yesterday. She went by her own free will. I think the one girl got to her(who's mother wouldn't let her go on a senior trip to Cancun) This girl was banned, and it seemed Dash was very upset by her remarks which she then said she had had enough and left.

From what I understand they use one day to plot out possiblilties and the next to explore those possibilities.  They were talking last night about some possible "hits" on the sonor.  But this might be different when using the dogs.

Is this the quarry Geraldo was questioning on whether it had been searched?

If the Texas team found her in a few days, the Arubian Authorities and the FBI will look downright incompetent (to say the least).

I inexplicably started crying when I read a hit had been found in the quarry.  And I'm NOT a psychic.  It was a weird, overwhelmingly heavy & sad feeling.

Yes they did know each other but I've been going over transcripts this morning and Jorans mom Anita said he didn't see them that often. Iv'e been trying to find transcript regarding the Kalpoe brothers just happening to be at Jorans house when Holloway-Twitty showed back up. That has been bugging me

The two Kalpoe brothers appear in photographs with Joran, so they obviously know him.

The depth of their friendship is certainly in question, however.  

The most revealing disclosure was when Deepak was quoted saying,

"I should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy"

Why would Deepak say this, and reference a friend generically as 'the Dutch boy', unless Deepak has knowledge or reason to believe that Joran is dangerous or that Natalee wouldn't be safe with him because he was known to have a violent or criminal past with women?

I disagree.  JVS and the Kalpoe brothers were the last to see NH alive.  They have admitted this.  They have also lied from the beginning.  The only reason to lie is guilt IMO.  What is inhumane is that Natalee disappeared on May 31 and has not been seen or heard from since.

Again Sandra you make a very pointed KNOWING statement about Steve....?????

That's what I am trying to figure out..

If the quarry near VDS home is the same as the dump/pond that had not been searched on Hannity & Clomes!!??

Same spot? or 2 diff. places?

Is this the quarry Geraldo was questioning on whether it had been searched?

Sorry, nothing yet folks...just be patience

Teo

My wife said that I missed something when I was typing a while ago. According to her while I was placing my attention on typing as fast as I coulod for you, she said that Top also mentioned that they had more news, but they are waiting for confirmation...

hmmmmm.....

I am getting real curious..

When I hear more, I shall place it here.

Teo
www.arubadag.com for 7 arubian radiostations

"I should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy"

Why would Deepak say this, and reference a friend generically as 'the Dutch boy', unless Deepak has knowledge or reason to believe that Joran is dangerous or that Natalee wouldn't be safe with him because he was known to have a violent or criminal past with women?

When did Deepak say this? To whom

May 29th Sunday/  May 30th Monday.

8am-10pm       
Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .      
Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar. Any report of pot or heavy drinking?

2pm-7?pm.        
Did Nat take a nap?, shower, shopping drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?            
Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young son Valentijn? Did Joran pick up his father?

7pm-11pm       
MUSIC CONCERT Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill, Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh.  Chances are that did Joran meet Natalee here?  Did Mickey Jones meet Natalee and or Joran here?  Was Satish here?  Deepak was working at the Internet café. Was SGC here as well? Where the Security Guards looking for targets? Any report of pot or heavy drinking?

8pm-10pm   
Joran won 4th place in a Poker Tournament?  Was it here that Natalee met Joran for the first time? Reports from Bill O’Reilly, fellow MB student said that Joran may? have met Nat 2 to 3 days before.

11pm      
Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds. Deepak closes the Internet café and little brother Satish picks Deepak up.  They then head to Jorans house to pick go to CnC.

11.30pm-1.30am.       
Carlos and Charlies. About 40 Mountain Brook student were here eating or drinking.  Scuffle broke out, reason unknown. Bryan Reynolds, 18, "There was almost a fight between my friend and him," Reynolds said they were the first people he considered as potential suspects. That was the first people who came to mind," said Reynolds, who said Holloway is one of his best friends. [http://www.postherald.com/me061005.shtml]

12.00am-1.30am       
Joran sneaks out, arrives with Kalpoes Brothers. Scuffle with Mountain Brook male student.

1.30am-2.30am      
Cruising at California Lighthouse, Fisherman’s Hut/ Arashi Beach?
      
Deepak and Satish drops off Joran near the Marriot Inn

2.30am-3.00am      
Joran’ s house??, Drowing, OD,Hazing, Kidnapped by SBF security?

2.40am      Joran calls Deepak via Cellphone?

3.30am      Joran reaches home at Montana #9

Thanks so much....lets keep hoping and praying they find Natalee

When I was 17 I met a guy at the beach when we were on family vacation, he walked me to my motel and that was it.  He never wrote or called whn I got home.  I received a call from the FBI that he had been shot in the parking lot and wanted to know what I saw.  I didnt see anything, so that was that.  He lived though.  If he were have died are you saying I should have been arrested?

Part of me doesn't want this news, because I know it will be bad.  The other part of me knows that her parents need closure, no matter how bad the news is.

I think now is a great time to say a prayer for Natalee and her family and friends.  God please bless them!

I can understand the flowers being sent to the home.  

If my best friends or neighbors were accused of doing something awful like this, and I felt in my heart that there was no way they could, I would want them to know that I supported them.  Especially when the whole world is completely against them and trashing them at every corner.

I was thinking something along those lines, too. It's unheard of for searchers to be so confident about finding a body at all much less say it will be in a day or two.

Maybe it was a "ploy" by LE to make the other 3 "think" he knew something, Shell? I mean I've heard stranger things..

Yes they did know each other but I've been going over transcripts this morning and Jorans mom Anita said he didn't see them that often. Iv'e been trying to find transcript regarding the Kalpoe brothers just happening to be at Jorans house when Holloway-Twitty showed back up. That has been bugging me

[/b]
I totally agree!

Hi,

Good afternoon

I would like to know who is LE.

Thank you for the answer

I think you may be overreading Byrd's statement. I think she was saying that had they seen Natalee getting into the car with the three boys that they would not have let her. Did Dash say she saw Natalee get into the car? I thought she said that they lost track of Natalee between groups.

It has been pretty intense in here when I have checked in the last few days so that obviously contributed to Dash saying that she was leaving. I bet she is also very exhausted. I know I am. I can't imagine how hard this is for Dash and Natalee's other classmates

He only heard a conversation at internet cafe.  That is why he was arrested (just on Fox).  INHUMANE!  LE Is blowing this case.

I agree...if they were friends of mine and I believed in them I'd probably be taking something cooked to their house.  It seems like they are well respected in their circle.....and Gofd forbid if I was even involved in something to awful I would hope my friends would do the same.  

I did pick up something last night that I thought was a biyt odd....when Paulus was released he said he wanted to get home to his wife....not his 'family'.....this made me wonder where the other children might be?  Probably means nothing....but it struck me as strange.

Praying and hoping

LE = law enforcement

LE is law enforcement

Law Enforcement

I think Equusearch is the tops in this type of recovery.  This is the first time the dogs have really been allowed to work (anybody know of any others?) and a quarry is where they could shine.

Takes me back to this old info posted here on SM when CNN reported a "confession" that was later deemed "false".......

Taken from SM website (June 10):

>According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.<

I am very curious about the connection here.  Anyone else thinking what I am thinking?

What is LE

Geez, will you guys take the Dash stuff to a new thread? Enough already!

I noticed that also Sunny ..Once again..

How about a hint??

Does anyone wonder why Aruban citizens have not been rushing to LE with information?

I did pick up something last night that I thought was a biyt odd....when Paulus was released he said he wanted to get home to his wife....not his 'family'.....this made me wonder where the other children might be?  Probably means nothing....but it struck me as strange.

Praying and hoping[/quote]

If my family were going through this, you can bet that I would try to send my other children as far away as possible.  Those children shouldn't be around all of this.

by CNN and then hushed up.  Supposed the LE was looking for the remains because one of the boys confessed. Did CNN ever retract their report, or did the Pr Min and LE hush it?  This all REEKS of cover-up to me.......

Wouldn't it be ironic if they do find Natalee today, exactly 4 weeks to the day she disappeared?  Some pchysic (sorry for spelling) said she would be found within 30 days......I just find this interesting

Praying for Natalee and her family. May God grant them strength!

This is probably a dumb question, but how deep is the water in the quarry and could they have used the side scan sonar in the water?

Anita said they had both been to her house.

DJ taylor gave birth yesterday at 2.11 am.....her baby weighed in at 8lbs 14oz.  and is 21 inches ! HES ONE BIG BABY! AND ADORABLE!

Arubans have probably not rushed to LE with tips due to their "what do you want me to do about it?" attitude.

Update

Can only report what I get - mini-press conference held to get Dutch press to back off, members of press were actually trying to get in water for pictures. My report says American media basically playing by the rules. Conference held just to settle things down to proceed.

Last word is something up, rumors dog got a hit, divers need to get to work in quarry as previously reported. Time line unsure per report - doesn't mean that's the case on the ground.

I do know some MSM outlets were also scambling on ground. Look for updates - hopefully before evening.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/update_5.html

I agree.

How far away is the quarry?

Is it possible that she ran from the Sloot household and fell or is the distance so great that she would have to be placed?

Awwwww!  Congratulations!

Great news...thanks for letting us know!

Thank you for some good news !! God Bless them both!

Hey guys..I just got caught up..i was outside gardening and laid my leg in a fire ant bed...UGHHH..so, now I am back and very disturbed about the quarry thing...prayers to the holloway and twitty families :cry: ...I am so upset right now at the thoughts of what may be found....So, let me make sure..the dogs DO NOT hit on anything except human remains, correct?

Does anyone wonder why Aruban citizens have not been rushing to LE with information?

Excellent point Golden

Going back through the posts you can see that some witness accounts (possibly rumors) were just blown off and now you see someone arrested for trying to help.    The Arubans are probably all to aware of how things are handled by the police there, which is why no one is coming forward.

Awww.she is so beautiful in her avatar photo..i am sure baby is too!