Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

Did I loose you guys?   :lol:

like your avatar, blah...nice.

Nope :lol:

You calling us 'loose'???  :P

Here is the entire scoop on USAToday.  And with this, I have to go work and lurk. . . . .


quote="nonesuche"]Anna-

What about the windsurfer who vanished from the HI without a trace, or the young boy who vanished in the waters while jet-skiing with that older man? I wish I had kept that information.[/quote]

I have told him of those two other missing Americans but think he will respond that they are not officially listed as murders.   :evil: ONLY as missing.  Yeah, right!  But we know that trick now is how they keep their murder rate deceptively low.

But we will find the two or three more that will put Aruba definitely higher than the U.S. even with all the false classification they do to prevent the truth of the matter from being known.  And they have their all too willing accomplices in the MSM to assist them in preventing people from knowing what really goes on there.

I am also going to send him a little background on one of Aruba's most upstanding citizens, Michael Posner, as well.   :?


Here is the address of the man who wrote the article stating that there had only been one murder in Aruba in the past twenty years for USAToday

travel@davidgrossman.net


Here is his address at the paper.  You put Grossman in the subject line to see that it is directed to him:

travel@usatoday.com <travel@usatoday.com>.

This is a link to an article in USAToday and this Grossman who wrote it says that Aruba has had one murder in the last twenty years. I have already written to him protesting that statement but the horror of it is he made it apparently speaking to a group of travel agents!!

Please write to Mr Grossman if you feel so inclined and request that he correct this horrific disinformation. Here is the article and his email address is at the bottom of the article.

http://tinyurl.com/mg6ju

Justinsmama found this:

This what Grossman at USA Today wrote:

Quote:
Many people say they feel safe when traveling. But our sense of "safe" is often distorted by media coverage (or the lack of it) and distance, according to Tarlow. For example, the disappearance of Natalee Holloway gained worldwide attention and caused a decline in visitors to Aruba, even though it is the safest island in the Caribbean with only one murder reported in the last 20 years.


To report corrections and clarifications, contact Reader Editor Brent Jones at 1-800-872-7073 or e-mail accuracy@usatoday.com


So here we can have all the contact infomation at one place although you can go to the USATODAY website and write to the travel editor who is also the boss of this Grossman who write one murder in the last twenty years in Aruba and tells that to a group of travel agents!

Yes..and I never said I could spell..ha ha ha :lol:

Has there ever been a conspiracy investigation in Aruba, or in NL?  Guess I should do some research on my own, later.

thanks, Anna gave it to me.

Hi Monkeys!

I am finally in the office after 2 days of Monster.com training at a Beautiful Hotel in Fort Lauderdale!

It was awesome!

??

Folks - I mean Monkeys,

I know Anna and I have been blitzing Mr. Grossman. I think we need to start sending this stuff to the State Dept. I'm working on a better-than-blind contact name there. (No, I don't know Condi or anyone - I have simply requested a name, in an email from the web site.)

Our goal should be to get this place on the Travel Warning list (or whatever it's called). The strategy is that by picking out the crimes in the woodwork (wormwood?) on Aruba, we can disprove the stats the island officially release (or proclaim to the travel industry).

We need our Murders on Aruba thread back. Or start another one. We will need some sort of source if possible for each of the incidents we pull together.

Also. We need for someone to politely request the crime records for Aruba from ALE. Who would be a good person for that? Should it be a "name" - or just an innocent, potential tourist-type person?

Klaas...did you already make a map showing where Deepak said he dropped off Joran on this latest statement? I can't picture it?

I'm not sure if I have that..been too busy preparting statements for Red to post.  You have no idea how much work there is that goes into it.  

As far as where they came from and why they are being leaked now that is a question for Red to answer.

Gotcha Sweetie!!  Not really important where they came from...just glad we have them...I just wondered if it was public. knowledge..have a feeling I know where they came from anyway...I take it there are more coming!!?? Looking forward to jumping in tonight to analyze. Thanks for your comments!!

Thanks again for all of your hard work Klaas!! You are terrific!!

the big hammer wrote:
van der Straaten

He handles interrogations of jvds, but not other two. He is directly involved w/ sloot throughout questioning, but never kalpoe.

This is another important piece. And something new (at least to me).

RE statement of June 13. As noted by others, van der Straaten signs this document on June 17, and presumably submits it then. This delay is a problem. This is not only strange, but is procedural breach. And in case so important to Aruba, this failure to follow procedure is glaring, and an oversight a seasoned, ranking police officer simply would not make.

Unless...there was a reason to.


Exactly, Hammer. What did van der Straaten have to do from Monday afternoon the 13th until sometime Friday the 17th before signing? Glaring is exactly what it is, imo.
Maybe we need to go back and see exactly what was going on in the so called investigation between june 13th and june 17th?What were they doing in this time period?

Missed ya my sistah!

Welcome Back!

Smish wrote:
[So if Joran already told Deepak that he would find a way home that night,why did Deepak wait up to make sure Joran got home?Could Deepak be lying here?Could he have told Joran he WOULD pick him up?
Just not a normal thing for GUYS to do....wait up for a"ok,I'm home"call from another guy friend.


Anna:
Smish,
Yes, I agree that this is just tremendously odd! None of the parents care enough to even know where these kids are or where they have been or how drunk they are and yet these two are oh so tenderly guarding each other to their home safely??

Besides, what would be to worry about since there is no crime at all on One Happy Island, what could possibly go wrong? I don't think I have ever seen such tenderness in two guys for each other in such casual circumstances. Never heard one of my sons calling some guy to say they got home OK. A girl, yes, but never another guy.
*****************************
I agree Anna.Deepak makes this waiting for Joran's call sound like something he is required to do,something he has done about 20 times before,something he was told to do as part of the whole PIMP game plan.

Okay, Monkeys -here's another one from a site called http://www.lostremote.com/archives/005685.html . It's dated August 9, but I can't tell if it's 2005 or 2006. (However, the archives only include 2006.) Apparently it's a blog that critiques TV coverage of news events.

Maybe we have some 'splaing to do to him.

Notice the links at the bottom, which might be useful.

Aruba: Murder by numbers
As Coverage Mania of the Holloway story continues unabated, let's do some math. I know - we got into journalism precisely because we were told there would be no math. But let's do some anyway and answer empirically: Just how dangerous is that vicious, pirate-ridden, uncaring island of Aruba?

BY STEVE SAFRAN
LOST REMOTE MANAGING EDITOR

The population of Aruba is about 72,000 people. A conservative estimate of visitors in a given week is about 13,500. Total people on island at any given time? About 85,500.

Last year in Aruba there were two murders - possibly just one, depending on which stat you believe. We'll go with two anyway. No tourists were killed. That's a murder rate on Aruba of a little over 2 per 100,000, but we’ll call it an even 2. Or look at it this way: The Aruba murder rate is .0002.

Still, you can't go a minute without hearing about Natalee and you're worried. Maybe you're switching your vacation from Aruba to Jamaica. Bring some Kevlar. Murder rate: 32 per 100,000.

You'll be twice as safe in Puerto Rico as you would be in Jamaica. Still, it's eight times more dangerous than Aruba: 16 per 100,000 folks in Puerto Rico are going to meet an untimely end this year (with or without Greta Van Sustern caring).

If you're fine with 10 in 100,000 murders per capita, we can suggest Mexico, Estonia, Belize, the Dominican Republic and maybe Barbados during a bad year. Feel a little more secure in Costa Rica. Of your 100,000 friends, 99,994 won't get capped.

So, stick to the U.S. Virgin Islands. We run it. How bad could it be? Turns out you better leave behind a lot of clues if you're going there: 25 murders per 100,000. That's worse than ANY American city, save for New Orleans where shooting guns into the air is considered good, clean fun. The British Virgin Islands are more polite, but say “cheerio” to 11 per 100,000 chaps.

Screw it, you think, I'll just stay home. Now you're only three times as likely to be killed as if you went to Aruba, with the U.S. murder rate at about 6 per 100,000. The murder rate in New York City, from where Fox News constantly reminds us how dangerous Aruba is, was 7 per 100,000 people in 2002. And if your home is in, let's say, Alabama, up the murder rate to 7.5 per 100,000. Then wonder if one of your congressman will call for a boycott of your own state.

Obviously, there are safer places to vacation than Aruba. Go to Slovenia, Tunisia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or Qatar and you're golden. Go to Canada, and you're as safe as you could be. Of course, it's colder than Aruba, but the murder rate is tiny. And it's much less likely your family will be pestered by Nancy Grace. She's from the south. She hates the cold.

I got a certain amount of hate mail regarding my last column on Aruba media insanity. (Ironically, Aruba Today's editor said she loved it.) One eloquent writer asked "Do you have a life?" I think it's pretty obvious the answer is "No, of course not. I work in news." One person asked, simply "What is your point?" Context. That's my point. I am not mocking this tragedy, nor the importance of it to the family. What I am so troubled by is a national media obsession that is making Aruba look as though it is run by the Sopranos. Before we ruin the Aruban economy, which is dependent on tourism, here is a little more context:

Natalee disappeared on May 30, 2005. Also on that date, five U.S. soldiers died in Iraq: Corp. Jeffrey B. Starr died in Ramadi, and SSGT. Casey Crate, Captain Derek Argel, Captain Jeremy Fresques and Major William Downes died in Jalawah.

There are currently 19 kids from Alabama listed as missing at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website. (2 are from before 1980, some are indeed "family abductions" or "runaways".)

In South Africa, two young tourists were murdered the day after Natalee went missing.

LaToyia Figueroa, a 24-year-old pregnant woman from South Philadelphia, has been missing since July. She is Black. There has been just about no media coverage (except for stories wondering why there's no media coverage). Contrast that with the non-stop madness surrounding Laci Peterson, a 27-year-old pregnant woman from Modesto, California, who was white.

35,000 children are forced to work as prostitutes just across the sea from Aruba, in Colombia.

It's unlikely you’ll be murdered in Aruba, and it’s even more unlikely the news will care. Of course, there are ways to skew the numbers. It turns out you can geometrically expand the odds of having your story covered if you’re a cute white girl with an articulate mother during a slow news cycle. This should generate a significant spike in ratings numbers; after all, that’s the only stat that really matters.

Sources:

Pan American Health Organization (PAHO), International Comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics 2001-Home Office Bulletin 12/03 http://www.ascotadvisory.com/News_Bulletin/9961.html

Georgia State U. Department of Criminal Justice Statistical Analysis Bureau: http://www.cjgsu.net/initiatives/HomRates-2004-05-14.htm
Iraq Casualties from Centcom.mil, via Iraq Coalition Casualty Count http://icasualties.org/oif/ Black America Web: http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/figueroa808
Colombia Journal Online: http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia111.htm

With assistance (and math help) from: Julia Renfro, Editor in Chief, Aruba Today; RD Sahl, Anchor, NECN: Jeff Gralnick, MSNBC; Tom Melville, Asst. ND, NECN Posted by Steve Safran on 08/16/05 | Link | Comments (21)

If Deepak Or Satish Are Guilty JVDS Would Have Rolled Over On Them A

LONG Time Ago .....The Cover-Up Comes From The Sloot Camp Not The

Kalpoe Camp ........The Kalpoes Know What Happened But Are Being

Played As Pawns ........Someone That We All Know, Knows The Routine

Of The PERPS But NO ONE Seems To Be Interested In Acquiring The INFO

By The Way ........

The Weather Is Rainy & The Track Is Sloppy ................

To Jacquie MET FEVER ...................

 8)

2 days in a beautiful hotel in Fort Lauderdale...what is up with that? :shock:
  I got a power point presentation and two hours on the phone with 50 other people!! :wink:

Oh yeah, baby....check out in the lounge my post about any sport fan will like it....

Joran is asked where "the girl" is buried then.... his response? "IT" was buried then next to wall of the Fisherman's Hut...Natalee is no longer the girl to Joran...but "IT" as in body or corpse

Tell The JEWS ..................

The Vander Sloots Support The Hezbolah .............

 :roll:

 :shock: ......and the darkside is saying that Jossy pays the 'Hez'!!!....LOL! This is all so totally out of control, unreal.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/29/ng.01.html

Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. Very quickly, to Natalee`s uncle. Joining us is Paul Reynolds. Paul, I understand that you took it upon yourself to go search the area of the of the Holiday Inn.

REYNOLDS: Actually, I was following the Equusearch people that were doing the ground-penetrating sonar over on the beach just north of the Marriott. And one of the Equusearch personnel that I was speaking to had found something suspicious over -- under some trees adjacent to the north side of the Marriott.

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on, Paul. This is a live shot of what he`s talking about, near the hotels. Go ahead, Paul.

REYNOLDS: We went over there and found a suspicious-looking bag, a small bag, but, you know, had a strong odor about it. We weren`t sure what it was. We were looking around the area. We detected some strange-looking mounds close to that and some strange odors coming in that area.

We contacted the police. They sent some detectives over there, and you know, brought a dog over there to check it out. You know, I`m not sure that we found anything, but you know, it gives us confidence in the responsiveness of the investigation, the intensity. You know, while Dave and Equusearch and all them are over at the landfill, you know, we`re still looking in other places. It`s -- you know, we`re -- it`s a multi-faceted investigation. And it`s this much awareness and intensity that gives us hope.

Hi 2NJSons_Mom ~ Yeah ~ I meant to have her given name in the post ~ I even used Edith Stein when I searched for her chosen Carmelite name...

But when I highlighted the phrase with the botched up spelling ~ I took too much and deleted Edith Stein too...

When Father Kevin said who's feast day it was that we were celebrating today ~ I didn't know who it was until he said, "Edith Stein" ~ and then I knew why the vestments were red...

Because I know how she died...

Hi fm!

I know -- we're spoiled, right?

Next week is our wedding anniversary -- and we're probably going to have dinner and spend the night in a resort on Key Biscayne.

Just because we can :D

(it's practically walking distance for us -- definitely biking distance)

I have told him of those two other missing Americans but think he will respond that they are not officially listed as murders.   :evil: ONLY as missing.  Yeah, right!  But we know that trick now is how they keep their murder rate deceptively low.

But we will find the two or three more that will put Aruba definitely higher than the U.S. even with all the false classification they do to prevent the truth of the matter from being known.  And they have their all too willing accomplices in the MSM to assist them in preventing people from knowing what really goes on there.

I am also going to send him a little background on one of Aruba's most upstanding citizens, Michael Posner, as well.   :?


Here is the address of the man who wrote the article stating that there had only been one murder in Aruba in the past twenty years for USAToday

travel@davidgrossman.net


Here is his address at the paper.  You put Grossman in the subject line to see that it is directed to him:

travel@usatoday.com <travel@usatoday.com>.

This is a link to an article in USAToday and this Grossman who wrote it says that Aruba has had one murder in the last twenty years. I have already written to him protesting that statement but the horror of it is he made it apparently speaking to a group of travel agents!!

Please write to Mr Grossman if you feel so inclined and request that he correct this horrific disinformation. Here is the article and his email address is at the bottom of the article.

http://tinyurl.com/mg6ju

Justinsmama found this:

This what Grossman at USA Today wrote:

Quote:
Many people say they feel safe when traveling. But our sense of "safe" is often distorted by media coverage (or the lack of it) and distance, according to Tarlow. For example, the disappearance of Natalee Holloway gained worldwide attention and caused a decline in visitors to Aruba, even though it is the safest island in the Caribbean with only one murder reported in the last 20 years.


To report corrections and clarifications, contact Reader Editor Brent Jones at 1-800-872-7073 or e-mail accuracy@usatoday.com


So here we can have all the contact infomation at one place although you can go to the USATODAY website and write to the travel editor who is also the boss of this Grossman who write one murder in the last twenty years in Aruba and tells that to a group of travel agents![/quote]

USATODAY proving itself to try and overtake the NYT with its fabrication and obfuscation.

Good afternoon monkeys.... :D

The weather is about to consume us.....so I will hold my page and see you after prayers and thunderstorms..... :)

KLASS ROCKS  8)

Is the time of June 13 consistent w/ the date that SCOOP summoned Beth & Jug to the courthouse, only to prove yet again what a lying poseur she was and what an enabler of evil exists in her micromini brain.

Hey Smish!  Good to see you!  I'd guess that van der Straaten waited those four days to make sure that no evidence or witnesses came forward that could prove Joran was lying again.  If anything did, Uncle Jan needed time to "eliminate" it.

Absolutely, Widget, that was their job to be  cognizant of Joran's shortcomings all the time and keep him from harm and evil and out of trouble.  They were probably "babysitters" and "enablers of this spawn of Satan, which Paulus and Anita had already discovered was not manageable and they were paying the K2 to babysit him and ensure he stayed out of trouble and when Paulus remanded them to the pool for the NO BODY, NO CRIME conversation, he was probably quick to remind them they were not doing what they were paid to do, after receiving all the free drinks and porno that Joran had shared with them, they run off home and let him get into trouble.

Msmarples:  thanks for that article (even though it did raise my BP)

In my opinion, they are way off base - Did we EVER say that murders/crimes  Don't happen in the US? NO  Did we ever say that murders/crimes don't happen in New York, Alabama, or any city in the US? NO

The POINT is.... If God forbid, you ARE the victim of a crime, Will Justice be served?  Will you be treated with respect and will the Law Enforcement of the said Country TRY to solve the crime?  Will there be an investigation?  Will police protect and serve?  Will the Law Enforcement care whether justice is served?  If you are in Aruba - NO  They will first ask you how much money you have - then after they finish their cereal, they will begin a smear campaign against the victim, you and anyone who asks any questions.  They will intimidate any witnesses and destroy evidence.  That's just the tip of the iceburg.  I'm too mad to go on...

I am not sure that would have to be fabricated. :wink: Where do all the drugs come from that supports Hizb'Allah and where do they transport and who is their enabler and what role is Venezuela playing in all this and how well known is Paulus in Vz?  What connections do he and Rudy Croes have there?

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

DEEPAK JUNE 13, 2005 STATEMENT

www.scaredmonkeys.com

Also a thread for the same:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=182[/b]

I have told him of those two other missing Americans but think he will respond that they are not officially listed as murders.   :evil: ONLY as missing.  Yeah, right!  But we know that trick now is how they keep their murder rate deceptively low.

But we will find the two or three more that will put Aruba definitely higher than the U.S. even with all the false classification they do to prevent the truth of the matter from being known.  And they have their all too willing accomplices in the MSM to assist them in preventing people from knowing what really goes on there.

I am also going to send him a little background on one of Aruba's most upstanding citizens, Michael Posner, as well.   :?


Here is the address of the man who wrote the article stating that there had only been one murder in Aruba in the past twenty years for USAToday

travel@davidgrossman.net


Here is his address at the paper.  You put Grossman in the subject line to see that it is directed to him:

travel@usatoday.com <travel@usatoday.com>.

This is a link to an article in USAToday and this Grossman who wrote it says that Aruba has had one murder in the last twenty years. I have already written to him protesting that statement but the horror of it is he made it apparently speaking to a group of travel agents!!

Please write to Mr Grossman if you feel so inclined and request that he correct this horrific disinformation. Here is the article and his email address is at the bottom of the article.

http://tinyurl.com/mg6ju

Justinsmama found this:

This what Grossman at USA Today wrote:

Quote:
Many people say they feel safe when traveling. But our sense of "safe" is often distorted by media coverage (or the lack of it) and distance, according to Tarlow. For example, the disappearance of Natalee Holloway gained worldwide attention and caused a decline in visitors to Aruba, even though it is the safest island in the Caribbean with only one murder reported in the last 20 years.


To report corrections and clarifications, contact Reader Editor Brent Jones at 1-800-872-7073 or e-mail accuracy@usatoday.com


So here we can have all the contact infomation at one place although you can go to the USATODAY website and write to the travel editor who is also the boss of this Grossman who write one murder in the last twenty years in Aruba and tells that to a group of travel agents![/quote]


Anna thank you so much....I have sent emails to each.  and Good Afternoon Monks!!

Hi FM....missed you!!

they are off their meds and on the hard stuff :wink:

I got a post from over there where one poster stood up and asked all the 'I know, but I can't tells'...to put up or shut up...ooopppssss there goes that ban button again :wink:

I agree, Kimmy.  No place is completely safe; the issue is Aruba is lying about it's level of crime and they want it to appear they are safer than other places as part of their marketing plan.  The corruption is obvious and it too is being protected.  If the police don't trust other police, how can the tourists?  How can you expect help and/or justice if the police don't want to prosecute certain individuals and the whole country wants to hide their crimes under a veil of lies and accusations against the victims?

Hi Mere.....see you a bit later...stay safe

Thank you, Blah for the kitty avatar.  I saw it and copied it from the locked thread so I couldn't respond there.

Hey Tyler!!  I love it when you talk lke that...d you do have a way with words!! :wink:

Thanks Klaas!!  :D

Shout out to my favorite mermaid - well the only one I know - anyhow - HEYYYYYYYY!!!

Thanks klaas  - off to read now!

O/T

Israel has just launched a massive ground invasion into Lebanon.  Hundreds of tanks seen moving to and across the Lebanese border.
Please pray for peace in the region, a lasting peace that leaves Lebanon free of these terrorists and able to return to the way Lebanon was before the terrorists took over there.

Please pray for each country in the region to be respected and allowed to live in peace .

Sunny, how are you?  I figured out long ago this is about murder.  This is not about serving tea to ladies of genteel upbringing nor reading bedtime stories to minor children.  The perpetrator in this situation was a minor and his fairy godmother is a witch, his mother is a controlling pathological enabler, and his father is the gifter of porn to underage children.  In order to combat that, we have to 'TELL IT LIKE IT IS'.  It is time to take the white gloves off and abandon the party manners.  You cannot think like the devil unless you get down in the mud with Scoop.

What a crock of crap!!  He could remember the color of the MANY drinks the sporter had...but couldn't remember what he said when deepak asked him if he went to school that day!! :roll:  :roll:

Hi LilPuma...we haven't met....the avatar is darling...welcome to SM

Hi Tyler...getting better :wink:   that's a nasty thought...get down on old leatherfaces level...uuugghhhhhhh!  But I understand what you are saying.....white gloves OFF!!!

Thanks Klaas.

I just read it

omigod :shock:



.

Hey Monkeys....

That sure didn't come out like I meant it - it sounds a little smarty pants - mermaid - I really am glad to see ya. :oops:  :lol:

I drove to and from the hotel both days I did not get to stay there but truth be told all Monster was a great host with a lovely breakfast , Lunch and snacks both days!  The training is actually the last on their 14 city tour and day 1 was posting and today was searching.

...and it was all free because of our Monster subscription.

Hello everyone!!  ;)

THE SHOES ??????????????????????

what did you do witht he SHOES, JORAN you KILLER  :evil:



http://www.rewardformissingshoes.com

Hey Third....

Hey Scarlett!! How you doing this fine Wednesday? (I'd call it by it's nickname, but I don't want to get in trouble again)  ;)

I haven't gotten the chance to read Deepak's additional statements (posted on the FP) yet, but it looks like very interesting reading for sure!!  Have you read them yet?

Re. the blitz on Mr. Grossman (USAToday) - as a result of this, we have 5 murders on Aruba in 2005 that WE KNOW OF. (Sadly, I'm including Natalee in that number.)

For 2006, 3 that we know of ... so far ...

Local population about 72,000? with about 15,000 visitors on any given day - say population 90,000.

Can anyone do the math - 5 in 2005?

Yes, I *know* Natalee is considered only "Missing" - and we know why they disappeared her.

Amy Bradley, too - I don't believe that she was abducted into the sex trade. (That was 1998 or 1999.)

Deepak just confirmed to all of us in this new statement that the interior of his car was done over.

OK, I gotta go for a few (IT guy needs to access my PC).  I'll be back later...

I have read them... I need the time to sit down and what I want to do is kinda work in a differnt direction - put the interviews and statements together to see what's consistent... maybe unravel it that way...
I just haven't had the time yet... ya know??

Notice how Deepak makes sure he mentions he made his phone call from the phone at work when he called Joran at the casino.  He is still going with his phone was out of minutes.

If I was giving a statment I would just say I called Joran at the casiono.  Deepak is giving too much detail.

Who was this neighbor who came out and told Joran to lower the radio.  Was it the monkey next door.

Weren't they on vacation?

Who is John Charles Croes and is he related to the Charles Croes at the cell phone company.

Dang, I didn't realize how late it is.... gotta run Monkeys!!

That's what I remember.

"At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not."


Didn't Deepak say that he went to casinos to 'make' money.

This would be a way.



.

yep, its called CHEATING  :twisted:

JORAN wanted it KNOWN that NATALEE had a bump on her body somewhere

thats why he told K2 to say she FELL

what a PIG, JORAN is  :evil:



"that we did a bit of a road-trip, that he kissed and fingered her, that she fell asleep in the car, that we dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, that she had fallen down, that he had helped her up and that she walked off”.

He never mentions if the sporter called him.  I would be willing to bet there was a flurry of phoning that day.  Why would he ask Joran if he attended/did not attend school that day?  why would this day be any different?  why did Satish not attend school?  What was so important that day that he did not attend school?  Automotive Enterprises?

Neighbor has probably tried to "vacate their minds" so they do not have to think about what all goes on next door.  I bet they continue shaking their heads and saying "there goes the neighborhood."

Kalpoe Car Interior Re-Done

To your question from whom I bought the car, I can say the following. I bought the car from a man called David GROSS. He works at a company called "Carufa". I must tell you that when they installed the sound in my car, they used a lot of glue and seal/sealant under the carpet of the car. They had to remove the carpets to pull new cables through the car. You can verify this at "Automotive Enterprises". The man who installed it is called Osman OSMAN. I don't know if anyone had an accident/car crash with this car prior to it being sold to me.

OK.

San, you seem to think deepak refers to car interior re-do happening AFTER Natalee was in the car.  So sometime between May 31 and June 8 (the day before they are detained).

Maybe so.  Why would deepak bring this up? As we know, this car had a lot of aftermarket sound and video installed.  And this was already in car on May 29.  Deepak says in earlier statements talk about sound turned up, closed windows, put in music, playing dvds (porn) etc.

SO maybe he made an upgrade or exchange -- if so -- why?  He already had too much in the car to start with ---

But it surely does seem as though deepak is trying to explain a "recent" work on the car's interior, an explanation which would only be relevant if the work happened after May 31.

The statements which the three made when they were together in polis car should be reviewed, and I will have to go back and look:  in that statment they talked of this company "Automotive Enterprises" also.

So this Automotive Enterprises gets two mentions (at least) while the 3 are in custody.  And the forensics from Holland come back as chocolate and cleaning fluid, I presume kalpoe car impounded on or about time of arrest (June 9)...

...HHhhhmmm.  This is getting interesting.

I wonder where they dump old (or stained) car floor mats and carpeting in Aruba?

[/b]HAMMER:  
I wonder where they dump old (or stained) car floor mats and carpeting in Aruba?

Wherever they dump the bodies.  Remember the statement from Deepak, if they find the girl, they are going to find all "that shit."  What shit?  The carpeting and interior of his car?

Just curious if anybody knows how/why these statements were suddenly made available...

tidycat

ABBREVIATED TIMELINE FOR PART OF JUNE

June 3 - Aruban Coastguard searches waters

June 3 – first American News Media crew on island was MSNBC, following the first correspondent to the island from the syndicated show, “a Current Affair.”

June 3 – Reportedly a former policeman follows a KIA sedan with a blonde woman matching Natalee’s description from an ATM location.  After following the car from house to house, the police are called.  The girl is brought to the police station, the Twittys are called in, but the woman turned out to be an American tourist.  Similarly it is later reported that Hubert Tiel follows another woman from house to house, before she leaves by helicopter.

June 4 - Allegro Hotel searched room by room

June 5 - Johns & Jones arrested.
Bloody mattress found on SE end of island
Ladies sunglasses & white security shirt found in Colony area of SE end of island

June 5 – Gerold Dompig reportedly replaced vd Straaten as lead investigator per Oduber’s orders.  Vd Straaten becomes lead investigator again within a few days, allegedly around the 10th.

June 6 – Island-wide search for Natalee Holloway
500 gov't employees show up for
search of SouthEastern tip of island

June 8 - Judge J.S. Kuiperdal remands Johns & Jones in custody for an additional 8 days

June 9 – ~6 – 6:30 AM - J2K arrested on “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence”

June 9 - 6:00 PM - International School of Aruba senior graduation @ Wyndham Hotel

June 10 – Natalee’s loved ones rush to the lighthouse area after a police official tells the media that one of the three young men in custody admitted “something bad happened” and was leading police to the scene.

June 10 - Beth stated that her D.N.A. was requested by JANSSEN (BETH gave saliva and blood samples)

June 10 - Late that evening FOX News, AP and CNN reported that Dompig and Edward Croes stated that one of the arrested suspects had confessed, and police were being taken to a crime scene. DOMPIG also stated that one of the persons in custody had stated  "that something bad happened to NATALEE.”  Shortly after that statement became public, a press conference was held in which one senior government official made no reference to the Assistant Commissioner's statement, choosing rather, to say that the authorities were at a critical juncture in the investigations.

June 10 - Beth & Dave told by FBI that Natalee may no longer be alive because the 3 Main Suspects were “beginning to implicate each other, and they were not denying the crime, and they were finger-pointing at each other.”

June 10 - BETH phoned her mother and told her that Natalee was probably no longer alive.

June 10 - This weekend began scaling back of search for Natalee. ALE search teams venturing out only after credible tips & coast guard patrols offshore

June 10 - Oduber addresses Aruba that if something bad happened to Natalee it would be bad for the island long considered one of the safest CARIBBEAN OCEAN nations to visit, whose main industry is tourism.

June 10 – Aru-Bay video of what appears to be the recovery of a body is filmed.  It is later claimed to be that of a 7 year old illegal immigrant from Columbia, although the body is later reported to have been found a year earlier

June 11 - Rudy Croes states twice that one of the boys is talking and a body will be found soon.

June 11 - Oduber says there is blood in Deepak's car

June 11 – The radio stations in Aruba are also reporting that ARUBAN police are heading to recover NATALEE’s remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), then it’s Canashito, at the rock quarry.

June 11 –Vivian van der Biezen, spokeswoman for the Attorney General said, “The investigation (is) was at a very crucial point.”

June 11 – Video tape of strange events taking place near the lighthouse were uploaded to the internet.

June 11 – Public announcements regarding confession & body location are officially retracted

June 11 – Aru-Bay video of rock painting is filmed
Aru-Bay video of body recovery is uploaded to internet

June 11 - vd STRAATEN was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRAATEN replied, “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.” When asked why not, STRAATEN replied, “Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!”

June 11 - Curacao criminal judge DICK van den BRINK came to Aruba & remanded J2K to be held for an additional 8 days

June 11 or 12 – Julia Renfro hysterically notifies the Twittys that Natalee had been found dead and moved to the island’s courthouse.  Julia inserts herself to the Twittys’ overcrowded mini-van as they rush to the courthouse where they are met by a throng of television cameras.  The family finds the courthouse locked and apparently empty. Julia claimed her information came from a deputy information office in the justice department, but it was found that no official ever leaked the information.

June 12 - Families asked to stop talking to the press

June 12 - Amalin Flanegin was added as second prosecutor after rumors that she would replace Jannsen

June 12 – An Amigoe article in the Aruban newspaper stated, “The father of one of the boys is a substitute judge. And every impression has to be prevented that the judge that is assigned is friends with the father of the boy.”

June 12 - Aru-Bay video of rock painting is uploaded to Internet

June 13 – Joran reportedly tells ALE that Deepak killed & buried Natalee near the huts.  Joran reportedly also claims that he was dropped at his home at 1:40.

June 13 - “FoxNews” RIVERA reported he just got off the phone with the Justice Minister RUDY CROES, and that CROES said there would a “resolution to the case momentarily.”

June 13 – John & Jones were released. JONES was released after his wife and mother testified that JONES was home sick all day 5-29 and 5-30 and wife was continuously with JONES.

June 13 – The lawyer of suspect ABRAHAM JONES, CHRIS LeJUEZ stated the following:
Two suspects: Joran van der Sloot and Abraham Jones were/are detained in the same cellblock at the police department in Noord.
It is here that a crying suspect, Joran van der Sloot supposedly commented to another suspect, Abraham Jones the following:
He is very preoccupied because he thinks that the other two Surinamese suspects might be lying and blaming him for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. His new story is that they (with they, I mean the two other suspects) dropped him off at his home, with Natalee Holloway still in the car, further he and Natalee exchanged e-mail address and that was the last time he saw her. He also added that the story that he told the officials was orchestrated at his home, near the pool.

June 13 – a second “Wall of Hope and Prayer” is erected

June 14 – 3 condoms, duct tape, and women’s size 14-16 pink polka-dot or pink floral underwear are found near the Marriott Hotel Beach

June 15 – Search & Seizure of vd Sloot’s red jeep & medium-blue SUV, computers and misc. other physical evidence.  Ben King present during search.  Kalpoes home searched & car impounded

June 17 – Steve Croes arrested

June 17 – Dutch judge Bob Wit rules that Paulus not be allowed visitation with Joran. Wit also barred Carlos (Joran’s attorney) from visting b/c Carlo had visited with security guards during their arrest.  Joran’s family hires Richie Kock and Arjan Debie as attorneys for Joran.  Judge Wit extends remand of J2K

June 18 – Paulus questioned for 5 hours as possible witness

June 18 – Rene Van Heyningen found partially beheaded in a cemetery

June 19 – Judge Wit retains S Croes for an additional 8 days

June 20 – Joran reportedly is on suicide watch

June 21 – J2K transferred to KIA

June 21 – Beth & Greta visit with Paulus & Anita at vdS home for 90 minutes.  Allegedly Anita describes Natalee’s underwear & genitals, as well as provides a graphic description of Joran’s sexual encounter with Natalee.

June 21 – J2K transferred to KIA

June 23 – Paulus vd Sloot is arrested under suspicion of complicity to premeditated murder, complicity to murder and complicity to kidnapping.

June 24 – Police secretly tape conversations of J2K while they are being transported together in police vehicle

Sunfreak, thanks for that timeline...

tidycat

KLAASEN, what is the date of the rush to the courthouse where JR inserts herself into this, after summoning Jug & Beth to let her ride with them to the courthouse.  I have it from a 6/13/05 article, but not sure that is the date of the occurrence.

So the 13 June 2005 statement as attested to by J VanderStraaten does not match this statement:  

June 13 – The lawyer of suspect ABRAHAM JONES, CHRIS LeJUEZ stated the following:

Two suspects: Joran van der Sloot and Abraham Jones were/are detained in the same cellblock at the police department in Noord.
It is here that a crying suspect, Joran van der Sloot supposedly commented to another suspect, Abraham Jones the following:
He is very preoccupied because he thinks that the other two Surinamese suspects might be lying and blaming him for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. His new story is that they (with they, I mean the two other suspects) dropped him off at his home, with Natalee Holloway still in the car, further he and Natalee exchanged e-mail address and that was the last time he saw her. He also added that the story that he told the officials was orchestrated at his home, near the pool.

SUNFREAK, thanks, I neglected to see that.

Lots of good points here...

Is this the place where Peeps worked?  (poster on SM)
Isn't this the place where the American worker died in the container?
This is getting creepier and creepier

It is so obvious that there was a cover up within law enforcement... between the changing stories by the boys and the changes in their attitute.  Once the body was moved and safe... these little details didn't matter any more.  Problem is.. they had already said them.  And not they are on the world wide web for all to read.

Guys - give it up - it's not going away.  San is right... Deepak you gave too much info... we know your car was worked on to conceal evidence.  Who paid for it you or Paulus or the Tourism Board?

Joran's shoes, the cup that had traces of date rape drug on it, the video????

I believe it was June 13th.

Hi Sunny MTWS  and Kimmy and Sharon - How Lovely!  Do Enjoy!

(I was at the Marriott Harbor Beach)

Winkies and smoochies!

Later - I am tired!

Gonna go home and read all the statements.........

Hey ya'll!!!

Has this been discussed???

'June 3 – Reportedly a former policeman follows a KIA sedan with a blonde woman matching Natalee’s description from an ATM location. After following the car from house to house, the police are called. The girl is brought to the police station, the Twittys are called in, but the woman turned out to be an American tourist. Similarly it is later reported that Hubert Tiel follows another woman from house to house, before she leaves by helicopter. '

hi ya'll...........

hope all is well with you, all is well here.l

I just wanted to mention this...........I am a BIG fan of the TV show "Big Brother".............it is on CBS.........well last week they had a competion for veto power, and one of the prizes was a trip to aruba.............A dr will kirby won it........apparently from what he said on the show he practices dermatolgy at a "Coast Dermatology"............he gave a shout out to them one night during a "live" show...............I have already emailed, him, the show and Endemol entertainment and CBS............just thought you guys would want to know.........

If this was already brought up, I apologize..........

CYA later :D

The mention of "automotive enterprises" twice while in custody does seem interesting. I would not be surprised if interior work was done before June 9 and evidence was destroyed.

What bothers me the most, is the complete lack of statements in the files before the arrests of the three suspects on June 9. These would be the false wittness statements by the three that were later retracted and led to the arrest of the security guards. These false statements as witnesses are punishable in any criminal system. I also find it very likely the suspect statements of June 9-June 13 have been likewise cleaned up. Some statements are prepared and signed days after the interrogation. The loss of these statements is clear evidence that the file has been sanitized and a coverup was in progress.

Honestly, these statements, and the lack of statements, make it clear to me that the investigation was derailed from the start from someone within the Justice Ministry.  If no "witness" statements come forward prior to June 9, 2005, I will be sure of it.

SPOCK, you will get no disagreement here but you like many others must not have been listening to Arlene, when she admonished us that we do not understand their system.  She told us we did not understand it.  She was right, but what she failed to tell us that it is a system dependent on "who you are" whether or not you have a right to a coverup.

You are right on Spock.  Now the question is -- will anyone, anywhere DO anything about it?  I am sure Aruba Law enforcement will NOT...  Holland.... doubtful....

What avenue exists to expose such obvious corruption other than pressure from the media?

And what Arlene's ARROGANT SELF did not understand is that we Americans aren't stupid.  We might not have understood their "system" before but we sure caught on... it's the old "buddy buddy" system.

She taught us well and wouldn't it be ironic if her own nightly briefings on how Aruban Law works is what finally fries these aholes?  (i.e. witnesses cannot lie)  Frankly I don't care if they go to jail for simply lying.. they shouldn't be walking the streets and getting paid money for being arrested.

Greetings Spock!

I too have often wondered about automotive enterprizes.

Live long and prosper.  V

Main stream media needs to demand an explanation: Do "witness" statements by J2K exist in the case file before June 9, 2005? I am going to be sending out some e-mails to the majors.

Klaas, If I may be so bold (plug for Spock there!), is it possible to see our comprehensive map with the triangle AND the location of where the dude was found in the container?

We may be on to the primary scene!

Spock, perhaps this would include Greta, Kim G, Bill O'R and Gerald Rivers?

Well -- we know one earlier statement does exist for Satish because he says it does.

The statement he gave at Bubali.

I think we would ALL like to see that one.



.

Do you think in their rush to destroy K1 and Joran's statements, they inadverently destroyed Satish's as well and just played it by ear from that point on.  

Speaking of ears, I would like to see some interpol agent grab Arleen by her big ears and pinch her right before carting her off in an orange jumpsuit.

The problem with just emailing these guys is that they don't devote any time to putting it together in their OWN minds and aren't up to speed.... I think Geraldo Rivera might give it a shot or if we contacted someone like Mark Furhman so that HE could talk about it on these shows.  

In other words - educate the guest vs. tell the host.  The hosts don't get it.

Gunslinger - I don't think I have Robert Benson's work location on a map.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LionsDenVDS5.jpg)

June 13, 2005 would have been a Monday.  They walked the gauntlet of press only to find the doors locked.  Would the courthouse be locked on a Monday? I also remember the article said 11 days after Natalee went missing - so that would put it on the 11th or 12th.

That's an interesting interpretation San/Hammer. And very possible.

That did not occur to me when I read it.

When I read it and saw Deepak mention 'Automotive Enterprises' my first reaction was "So the sporter DID get to read Deepak's statements :evil: "

I figured that was why Joran mentioned it in the police car. Because he had read Deepak's statement.

But there would still be considerable signifigance to the statement. Very suspicious.

I think you're right San. Why would Deepka talk about what was done to his car when he bought it 2 years previously unless it was covering for something else.


.

Thank you SunFreak!
Some interesting stuff going on in those 4 days from the 13th to 17th.
So wasn't Joran or the Kalpoe's homes searched at all when they were arrested on the 10th?
And why take the van der Sloot's cars if Joran didn't drive?They could take the cars to seach but didn't have the right to aquire a search warrant for the whole van der Sloot compound? :x

It would be nice to know (I think..)

Seems that during this period he was working on his alibi and testing different strategies with Deepak and Satish in the same interrogation room to see what their response/counter attack would be:

Sometime by 6-13, while under arrest, and during a joint interrogation together with Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE and Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE in the same police interrogation room, Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT changed his alibi-lies AGAIN, and now claims Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE, Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE, and NATALEE took Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT to his home where while sitting in the car outside the home NATALEE and Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT exchanged email addresses and said goodbye (time?), then Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT went into his home and Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE and Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE drove NATALEE to the “Holiday Inn.”

When Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT claims these alibi-lies during the joint interrogation, it was reported that Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE immediately says, “Why are you lying, Joran?”

BLAH

Sometime by 6-13, while under arrest, and during a joint interrogation together with Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE and Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE in the same police interrogation room, Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT changed his alibi-lies AGAIN, and now claims Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE, Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE, and NATALEE took Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT to his home where while sitting in the car outside the home NATALEE and Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT exchanged email addresses and said goodbye (time?), then Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT went into his home and Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE and Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE drove NATALEE to the “Holiday Inn.”

NOTE:  Above I pointed out that this does not match the signed attestation statement of same date, signed by JanVDS on 6/17/06.  Why?  Because they practiced different statements until they got one that would implicate the K2 and exonerate the SPORTER.

YES!

Two black men were supposed to take the fall for this and when that failed, PVDS thought he had found two slightly dark men to take the fall for his pasty white, fat, drunken spawn.

Gunslinger - If you find the location of where Benson worked I'd be happy to add it to the map.  I do remember we knew once the name of his employment but I can't search for it right now.  If someone remembers and can get the address and can try to place it on a map.

I've been very busy getting the statements ready for posting and haven't had time for much else.

I understand.  Thank you again for all your hard work.

June 15 – Search & Seizure of vd Sloot’s red jeep & medium-blue SUV, computers and misc. other physical evidence.  Ben King present during search.  Kalpoes home searched & car impounded.

June 17 – Steve Croes arrested

June 17 – Dutch judge Bob Wit rules that Paulus not be allowed visitation with Joran. Wit also barred Carlos (Joran’s attorney) from visting b/c Carlo had visited with security guards during their arrest.  Joran’s family hires Richie Kock and Arjan Debie as attorneys for Joran.  Judge Wit extends remand of J2K

June 18 – Paulus questioned for 5 hours as possible witness

June 18 – Rene Van Heyningen found partially beheaded in a cemetery

June 19 – Judge Wit retains S Croes for an additional 8 days

June 20 – Joran reportedly is on suicide watch

June 21 – J2K transferred to KIA
[/quote]

Interesting that Rene was beheaded the same day that Paulus was questioned for the first time regarding his involvement in the case a an accessory.  Then 2 days later someone is on suicide watch.  Originally it was thought to be Joran, but then some SM believe it was Satish/

Coincidence about the beheading or part of coverup?  Suicide watch b/c of the recent beheading or the news that they were being remanded for more time?

HI! is there anything on the news tonight about the case?

Does anyone else have an "Ah Ha! "  moment when reading the following:

The man who had driven the green Yaris called me to come over to where he was. I went over to him. The man was sitting in the car. The man asked me in Papiamentu whether or not the story we told was true. I said yes to him. During the conversation I had with him I had for one reason or another shot my mouth off and said something about the sporting shoes. The man asked me what I meant by sporting shoes. I then said to him that I was thinking about something unrelated/different

Who is the man?

And there's those damning SHOES again!

And by the way Monkeys, it's nice to be back and to have something worthwhile to discuss.  Somebody pipe me aboard, pleeeese   :wink:

actually, Anna should get the credit for that, she gave you that one and gave me my new one !

WOW! I thought I was on the wrong site with all the new names..Its nice to have some new friends..

Blah - it's not a matter of retyping, it's a matter of putting them all into .jpg format so they can be posted on the front page.

Robert  Wayne Benson, 56 year old American Harley Davidson mechanic, found locked in a storage container behind the shop in Cura Cabay.

GSlinger -

I just searched archives and Benson worked for the Harley Davidson shop... unsure if that is the same as Automotive Enterprises or not.  I have the address for the dealership but the repair place might be at a different site :

Big Twin - official Harley-Davidson Dealership
L.G. Smith Blvd. 124a
P.O. Box 5094
Oranjestad, Aruba

But Automotive Enterprises has been discusssed here on more than one occasions...

Automotive Enterprises

From June 29, 2005 Police Car Transcript:

Joran: Who has said about burying? I didn't say anything about burying.
Deepak: That's what you have stated. Stop with that bullshit.
Joran: I have said nothing about burying. The only thing what I can think of, is that you know people that it is the people of automotive enterprises.
Satish: Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah,yeah,yeah, then I had a flat tire, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah... I picked you up, right. And then I went back to the beach for her.
Joran: Who has said that?
Satish: You said that.
Joran: I have never said that friend. I have never said that you went back, friend.
Joran: That's your problem. If they find that girl, then they will see that shit.

From deepak June 13, 2005 statement:

To your question whether anyone has has ever thrown up in my car, I can say the following. Nobody has ever thrown up/vomited in my car.

To your question from whom I bought the car, I can say the following. I bought the car from a man called David GROSS. He works at a company called "Carufa". I must tell you that when they installed the sound in my car, they used a lot of glue and seal/sealant under the carpet of the car. They had to remove the carpets to pull new cables through the car. You can verify this at "Automotive Enterprises". The man who installed it is called Osman OSMAN. I don't know if anyone had an accident/car crash with this car prior to it being sold to me.

*************************************************

OK --

This is an interesting side-by-side of Automotive Enterprises mentions.

In the polis car transcript, it's very possible to interpret jvds saying that if they find the girl, they will find that "chit" as being followon to previous mention of Automotive Enterprises which jvds also initiates.

He seems to be saying that he knows the kalpoe car was worked on there, and the "chit" could very well be the carpeting/floor mats pulled from there...

So who is Osman?

And is it true that American mechanic who was found dead stuffed in crate (?) worked at this place: Automotive Enterprises?

Why, I think the man was Charles Croes....

someone driving Beth around on first night and speaking Papamiento...

And yes - the shoes are important... WHY would Deepak have brought them up in that conversation... seems weird to me.

A definite yes!   :lol:

 Thank you Frijole!

Good going!  Now where the hell is that?  lol

That garbage dump needs to be completely dug up and every inch searched.

The American found locked in the container:

From Diario, 17 November, 2005; Mecanico di Harley Davidson haya morto den container

Another person found dead in Aruba. The body of American born Robert Wayne Benson found in a locked container.

Full translation, Hat Tip: Getagrip

Harley Davidson mechanic found dead in a container

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Yesterday afternoon, a San Nicolas patrol car was sent to Cura Cabay, just behind a company that fixes cars and motorcycles, since a dead person was found in a container.

The person in question is the known mechanic Robert Wayne Benson, born in the U.S., of 58 years of age, resident of Pos Abao, who the day before had disappeared, according to his wife.

” The owner of the business, aware of his disappearance, asked two employees to go take a look at the container, they forced the door of the container which was locked from the inside and when opening it they encountered the lifeless body. ”

Dr. van der Linden confirmed his death, however the cause is still not precisely known. Our deep condolences to his family.


===================End of general information=========

Following are comments of that day for anyone that may want to read all this.


Here are some things that people are saying. Along with a video from a site that is the same one who had the white painted rocks.

November 19th, 2005 at 04:06pm Posted by Scared Monkeys | Crime, Natalee Holloway, Aruba, Travel | 63 comments

If you liked this post, I think you’ll also like these;
Body Believed to be that of Missing Army Specialist Robert Hornbeck found in Hotel
Army Spc. Robert Hornbeck still Missing after weekend in Savannah, GA
Natalee Holloway Investigation, One Year Ago Today. aka, What ever happened to the evidence?
An Email from Robert Buran, father of Erik Buran
Jamie Lynn Drake, 19, has been missing since last Friday June 23
« Previous | Next »

63 Comments »
WOW a locked container .. how with they ever solve that  

Comment by sue | November 19, 2005, 4:40 pm

Arlene Ellis Schipper: Investigation Following Many Leads; Autopsy To Follow

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Aruban spokeswoman Arlene Ellis Schipper today comments on the untimely death of an American expat in Aruba, “Rest assured that once the coroner gets back from vacation, he will do a thorough investigation. We are following numerous leads and as a precaution, we are holding two black security guards in detention. They will be held until such time as we can sort out the facts, and when our prosecuting attorney returns from vacation. Blood samples will be collected as well, and put through our special chocolate and cleaning solution device and then sent to Holland for further analysis”.

Ellis Schipper goes on to explain that it is the belief of the polis that Beth Holloway Twitty was somehow involved and the Aruban Polis Union has refused to investigate further until such time as high school students from the US are brought in for further questioning. “We know that an American has perished. We know that Mountain Brook is in America, ” said Chief of Police Deputy Dompig, “.. and we know that high school students love Harley Motorcycles. Investigation 101 says someone from Mountain Brook should be looked at for this, as Aruba is a peaceful safe place. Come join me at the Hilton on Wednesday evenings for Karaoke!”

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…………………..

Comment by Moi | November 19, 2005, 5:25 pm

Waiting for a retraction… I left him alive when I locked the container, that’s the way he wanted it…I can’t believe this is happening to me!

Comment by Frank | November 19, 2005, 5:29 pm

This sounds suspicious to me. I suppose we will never find out what he died of.

Comment by Marci | November 19, 2005, 5:33 pm

My condolences to his family…

Comment by Bluesky | November 19, 2005, 5:48 pm

There is a growing sentiment against all the Americans on the island of Aruba because of the on-going boycott. The situation is getting very dangerous daily. All the American tourists should be advised not to travel to the Aruba island for their own safety until the ALE can end the boycott by reporting all they know about Natalee’s disappearance.

Comment by Druu | November 19, 2005, 5:53 pm

I wonder if this poor man was a Natalee supporter even though he lived on the Island

Comment by Sue | November 19, 2005, 8:45 pm

Let’s see if they can solve this one.

Comment by david r | November 19, 2005, 9:52 pm

I feel sorry for his family.

Comment by Marguerite | November 19, 2005, 10:05 pm

he was so ashamed of the american boycott of aruba, that he locked the padlock on himself and committed suicide.

or elvis told him to do it. or he’s really in cancun with natalee gambling away the millions that beth has stolen.

every body knows beth did it.

all sarcasm aside, i really feel bad for him and his family and wish i thought there would be justice done here, whatever happened.

Comment by dennisintn | November 19, 2005, 10:21 pm

As I stated in June to C. Croes - Psalm82. Aruba will self destruct in the near future and Bluesky - well as the name implies - go meet your maker!

To the real Arubans - you can take over your corrupt gov’t and elect your own gov’t officials. Throw the rich in jail and resolve this tradegy soon. It would only take 6 hrs to accomplish because your Polis are (edit)

Comment by cal | November 19, 2005, 10:27 pm

well about three weeks ago I seen in the Diario a picture of a Aruba laying in the stree dead. About two weeks ago I seen in the Diario a picture of a white man laying on the beach with no shirt on, dead. Now today I see a report in the Diario of a white man found locked in a container dead. Now is this a safe island? Could one of them have known something about what happen to Natalee Holloway?

Comment by s. Hollwoay | November 19, 2005, 10:53 pm

give me a freaking break! I knew Scared Monkeys would use this a post up article and try to make it look like it has to do something with the Natalee case. freaking incredible!

Comment by Gabriel Leo | November 19, 2005, 10:56 pm

GL,

What part in the entire post remotely says that? We are posting a Diario Article like we have done with many Aruban papers.

It is a simple news post. Looks like you are making the suggestion, not us.

Comment by Scared Monkeys | November 19, 2005, 11:07 pm

Druu,
Yes, we were saying all along that Aruba isn’t safe, it wasn’t May 30 and it isn’t now. No, I won’t be going to Aruba and I hope no other Americans go. This article in Diario contradicts Arleen’s statement. She said the boycott was not affecting tourism.

Comment by Marci | November 20, 2005, 12:59 am

News is news… seems your getting awfully edgey about the latest news of your so called “safe island”. I guess I’d be upset too if I was trying to promote the safety of my island and people show up dead and missing.

Aruba should be worrying about tourism. There is no way I would consider going to vacation in Aurba after I seen the way this case was handled.

Comment by dianne | November 20, 2005, 1:04 am

AND THEY SAID NOTHING LIKE THAT EVER HAPPENS IN ARUBA. THAT IS HORRIFIC DEATH THE WAY THAT MAN DIED. AND YOU ARE TELLING ME THESE PEOPLE IN ARUBA ARE CIVIL. I THINK THEY GET VICIOUS WHEN THEY DON’T GET THERE WAY. STRANGE THINGS ARE HAPPENING OVER THERE SICK JUST SICK. LORD HAVE MERCY.

Comment by brenda | November 20, 2005, 1:13 am

Wayne was a well respected, wonderful man that would give you the shirt off his back to help a friend in need. I’m deeply saddened by this horrific tragedy. I will truly miss him.

Michelle

Comment by michelle | November 20, 2005, 1:17 am

There was a boy from Michigan (14 years old I believe) that disappeared in Aruba in February. His mother, him and sister went to Aruba to have calm after the husband/dad died. The news article said their was a 50 something year old man (American) who asked to take the boy Jet Skiing and the boy begged his mom to let him go and the man offered to pay for the jet ski. While out on the water something happened to the boy, he didn’t return and the body has not been found. The story keeps changing from the older man he went with, the mom is wondering if he set it up to kill him or abduct him. But something is not right with the story and the body hasn’t been found. This isn’t the older man that was involved was it? Google Missing Boy Michigan Aruba. And you will find links to the story.

Comment by Jackie | November 20, 2005, 1:52 am

Michigan Teen Missing in Aruba
By Heather Catallo
Web produced by Sarah Morgan
November 14, 2005

For two months 7 Action News has been investigating the disappearance of boy from Brighton.

Now the FBI is getting involved to find out what happened to a young teen on the island of Aruba.

Police in Aruba say Max Devrees’ disappearance was just an accident. But Action News has learned the FBI is now stepping in to investigate this case because it might be much more than just an innocent mystery in Aruba.

The inviting ocean and sandy beaches of Aruba have proven dangerous for an American more than once recently.

The world knows about Natalee Holloway, the Alabama teenager who disappeared in southern Aruba.

But another young teenager, from Brighton, Michigan also vanished without a trace in Aruba. His name was Max Devrees.

Yvonne Devries took 14-year-old Max and his younger sister to Aruba in may of 2004. She wanted them to spend some healing family time together following the death of her husband.

“I want to find out if this was truly an accident. Was my son set up to be taken in Aruba? Was I followed and stalked and my son purposely targeted? We went there as basically a memorial service, privately for the family, in honor of their dad,” said Yvonne.

At their hotel the Devrees family ended up hanging out with another hotel guest. He was a fellow American, 56-year-old David Stacey Sr.

Stacey offered to pay for Max to rent a wave runner so they could go out on the water together.

“Max was jumping up and down, really excited, let me go, let me go. And I did,” said Yvonne.

That was the last time she would see her son.

“They didn’t come back in 45 minutes. They didn’t come back in an hour. Pretty much immediately, I had that sinking feeling something was wrong,” explained Yvonne.

The police launched a massive ocean search. After several hours they rescued Stacey about four miles off the coast, but Max was never found.

According to Aruba police reports obtained by Action News, Stacey told police Max’s wave runner stopped working. He said he tried to tow Max’s watercraft, but that stranded both machines.

Back on land Stacey told police Max somehow slipped away. But Stacey’s story seems to change, depending on who he spoke to.

In one police interview, Stacey said “Max started swimming towards shore.”

But Yvonne said he told her something entirely different, “He said, ‘I heard a thump and Max was floating away.’ I said, ‘was he hurt?’ ‘Well, I don’t know, that was our said agreement between the two of us, to save our energy.’ ‘What do you mean an agreement?’ If it was your son, floating away, you would yell out to him, are you okay?”

But in his first interview with police, Stacey told detectives he didn’t have an agreement with Max.

Stacey also told police, “I do not remember if I called [out to] Max. I don’t think I did.”

But in another statement 2 days later, Stacey said, “I called out to [Max], but he did not answer.”

Corey Williams is a Michigan detective who is helping Yvonne learn the truth about what happened to Max.

He said the statements to the police don’t add up, “The minute I started reading, I started seeing what I would describe as glaring inconsistencies.”

Williams is also concerned about how quickly the Aruban police closed out the case without digging further into Stacey’s background.

“It appears to me that there could possibly be foul play involved. It definitely appears to me that there needs to be more investigation done,” said Williams.

In the Aruban police reports, David Stacey Sr. told detectives that he did not kill or do anything to hurt Max.

As for the Aruba police, they have not returned our phone calls to tell us why they closed their case so quickly.

Yvonne wants someone to find out how and why her son vanished, “Whatever you hold dear to you, just make sure you really realize what you do have, make sure you treasure it everyday, because when you wake up, you don’t know if that’s going to be your last day with them.” http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/ys_investigations/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15949_4237964,00.html

Comment by Jackie | November 20, 2005, 1:57 am

Ok, so the guy in the container wasn’t the guy involved with the 14 year old boy’s disappearance, but the response from the Aruban authorities seems awfully familiar.

Comment by Jackie | November 20, 2005, 2:02 am

I AM SO SORRY FOR HIS FAMILY. ARUBA IS NOT SAFE FOR AMERICANS HOW MANY WILL HAVE TO DIE BEFORE WE AMERICANS FIGURE THIS OUT. IT IS NOT SAFE AND THEY HAVE NO LAWS TO PROTECT THEMSELFS LET ALONE US. BOYCOTT IS THE ANSWER UNTIL THEY CHANGE THE WAY THE LAW WORKS THERE.. GRAM23

Comment by Grandma23 | November 20, 2005, 2:09 am

This man hasn’t even had a completed autopsy yet, and already most of you are blaming this on the NH disappearance and slinging mud.

As alot of you have said in your own words to the Aruba gov’t, police and people, I will say the same to you … “Shame on you.”

Comment by jim hanson | November 20, 2005, 2:22 am

My condolences to the family so close to the Holidays. It was locked from the inside? Strange. They’ll probably rule it suicide, depending on the type of container itself.

GL - Leap of faith? Or just ignorance? All in all, it’s a tragedy and it’s rude for you to capitalize on this man’s death in an effort to try to trash Natalee and this site. Have some respect or do you enjoy trying to make other people’s deaths look as meaningless as you make Natalee’s disappearance?

Comment by DC | November 20, 2005, 5:09 am

I tried to book a one week vacation to Aruba tonight on the net. I tried about 6 different sites. As of tonight, the earliest I can depart is the third week of January 2006.

Comment by jim hanson | November 20, 2005, 5:11 am

Aruban Law Enforcement (ALE) = another oxymoron. How can this be on this beautiful crimeless island?? Yet another sorrowful reason to boycott, BLuesky.

Comment by Joe | November 20, 2005, 7:54 am

So 4 people have been murdered in Aruba since Natalee disappeared. Including Natalee - that is a total of 5 people in 6 months. Aruba is a very unsafe place to visit; worse than Jamaca.

I remember the live interview in June of the two black security guards who were in jail and one said it’s obvious the 3 suspects; Joran, Deepak and Satish murdered the girl and if the Polis configured that out - then they need to get a job else where. With all thats happened it is becoming more apparent that this is a coverup; and those found dead had information to solve the case. Paulus van der Sloot, Dennis Jacobs, and Van Stratten are very dangerous and will do everything to destroy this case. This includes eliminating every bit of evidence and all possible witnesses.

Comment by cal | November 20, 2005, 8:16 am

This can’t be true … Aruba is one happy island, with no crime.

Haven’t they told us this often enough?

Comment by Richard | November 20, 2005, 8:20 am

To S. Hollaway:

Death is a Part of Life. Even in Aruba people Die Everyday…(Incredible?!?! HUH ??)

1. The guy lying on the Beach commited suicide.

2. About the second guy I do not have information right now. The investigation will have to take its course…

My condolences to families of these two persons…

Comment by Bluesky | November 20, 2005, 12:10 pm

I think aruba (my impression) is a lawless and dangerous place with a touristy “fascade” meant to part people from their cash.

I dont have confidence they will solve this crime either. They seem to know how to mix drinks, thats about it.

Comment by SB | November 20, 2005, 1:26 pm

why not post the Americans that died in Iraq last week? More newsworthy and just as relevant to the Holloway case

Comment by sunny71 | November 20, 2005, 1:41 pm

Gabriel Leo: Your reading comprehension needs some work. There was NOTHING in the article about Natalee Holloway.

Comment by monkey wench | November 20, 2005, 2:21 pm

gl is making the suggestion, but sm is making him do it. someone else is always responsible. there is no one in charge on aruba. sm, you should be ashamed of yourself. bad boy, bad boy.

and thanks for being here for us.
dennisintn

Comment by dennisintn | November 20, 2005, 2:24 pm

I am very sorry for the family in this situation. I do hope they get answers and justice in this matter.

Comment by monkey wench | November 20, 2005, 2:27 pm

His family has my sympathies.

Comment by Kelly | November 20, 2005, 2:46 pm

We’re getting an up close and personal view of the European justice system in our own backyard.

Comment by Jeremy | November 20, 2005, 3:10 pm

I’m just curious if Scared Monkeys is going to keep an eye on this story and follow it up so we can find out why this man is dead …

Comment by jim hanson | November 21, 2005, 2:23 am

I just googled “robert wayne benson” and got no related web sites. I googled “robert benson dead” .. no responses.

I did a yahoo search .. “robert wayne benson” … by the looks of it the only related web page to this search is scared monkeys.

Just an observation.

Seeing as this blog has the only info about this death, I hope they will follow it up as I mentioned earlier …. I’m interested in knowing about his background and the people he knew there … a death like this is certainly not a natural one … it’s foul play … it could be interesting to see what this man did in his spare time …

Well … we’ll see … I hope …

Comment by jim hanson | November 21, 2005, 2:44 am

Question,
If someone from Aruba went missing in say…. New York, and the Natalee case never happened, and the parents went over here to search, how would you react? What if they wanted to bring over their own teams of investigators and asked that their law enforcement be able to take over? Would you scream about what nerve these people have? What about if they started to then blame corruption one both the NYPD, who has had a history of corruption (I don’t recall Aruba holding the same title before this), and the Bush administration (Going to war for WMD’s, Abu Grab, Plame-Gate).
Be honest with yourselves. You would be mad too. Think with on open mind, and this case will look different to you.

Comment by founder | November 21, 2005, 10:34 am

GL…Although there is no suggestion that this crime has ANYTHING to do with the Nat Holloway case, this is additional proof that Aruba is not a safe environment for tourists (maybe not even safe for Arubans). This may be an island ripe for picking, if the citizens do not “get a grip” and demand responsibility and accountibility from all its politicians and everyone involved in criminal investigation and prosecution.

Comment by Kate | November 21, 2005, 11:31 am

Well I would Bet If a Aruban got lost in New york and the family came .. NOt one member from Aruban police would come to the US .. I can bet they would turn the case over to the FBI which would have already been involved.. those morons in Aruba cant even decide to send someone to reinterview the MB kids whats makes you think they would come here for a missings person

Comment by sue | November 21, 2005, 12:44 pm

For Jim Hanson - Go to www.diarioaruba.com and click on diahuebs (Thursday).
Scroll down and you will see the original reporting in the local paper.

Comment by Melissa | November 21, 2005, 12:47 pm

Wayne was my good friend in Aruba for the last seven years. I am very sad
about his death and send my prayers to the family. He had a heart of gold!

Comment by Linda | November 21, 2005, 1:01 pm

Oh, so people want to know what happened to this man, huh? God help his family if the make too big a deal out of it because then Aruban LE and Jim Hanson and friends will blame them for the man’s death.

Comment by monkey wench | November 21, 2005, 1:19 pm

To people who cannot read:

“they forced the door of the container which was locked from the inside “…

Suicide maybe???

Comment by Bluesky | November 21, 2005, 1:27 pm

This site http://newdatinggame.blogspot.com/ says that it was padlocked which implies from the outside.

Comment by Julie | November 21, 2005, 1:52 pm

Funny thing … a man is found dead in a locked container in Aruba, and the majority of people here think it’s the end of the world.

Do you know how many horrible murders take place in the united states every day of every week? Of course, with these murders, we see it on the news or read it in the paper and forget about it the next day.

It’s ok to have thousands of murders a year in the usa and just forget it as a part of life. But when a death like this man pops up in Aruba … oh my god! It’s unsafe to even LIVE in Aruba. Get out now! Everyone leave!

For God’s sake, get a grip on yourselves. Alot of you here remind me of fictional programmed robots that sit in front of a computer.

Comment by jim hanson | November 21, 2005, 2:38 pm

10. Birmingham, Alabama
Population: 238,167
All violent crimes: 3,261
Murder and non-negligent manslaughter: 59
Forcible rape: 240
Robbery: 1,369
Aggravated assault: 1,593
Property crime: 19,477
Burglary: 5,156
Larceny/theft: 11,970

www.cnn.com
Motor vehicle theft: 2,351
Arson: 142

Comment by Hello Kitty | November 21, 2005, 2:38 pm

re: benson
family and friends know he had a monkey on his back. it was off for ahile but it
returned. RIP

Comment by a. FRIEND | November 21, 2005, 3:56 pm

My sympathys to Mr. Benson’s family. I watched Dompig, Beth and Dr. Michael Baden on fox last night. Dompig said he don’t believe this has anything to do with the sex slave trade and he believes it’s a homicide involving the 3 suspects. I give him credit for saying that.

I have tried to remember any missing American tourist abroad where someone is held accountable. Amy Bradley’s family got the same kind of treatment. Sweep it under the carpet and they will go away George Smith on the cruise ship… they cleaned up the blood and his room and went about business. Dr. Baden also thanked Beth for keeping this out there to bring attention to such problems. He too believes Natalee’s case is a homicide. Dompig also said results of the tapes are going to be in and if they are authentic, Deepak is coming back in for questions. I only hope the FBI are allowed to help.

I’ve followed this case from the start and decided one day to go online and sign up showing my support to Natalee’s families. I came across dif. sites,, and couldn’t believe some of the horrible things being said about them. I then came across this site and have since recommended it to others. I know its brought awareness to me about things I knew nothing about going on. I heard Beth say the support is what keeps them going. I still come here to support both families and for those wanting to make light of just one person. Natalee was just one missing person, big deal. When you sit down at the table for Thanksgiving, look over and imagine your family by you wasnt sitting in that chair..not now..not ever again.. then the impact of just one missing person will mean something. I pray for all those who have lost loved ones to crime or. It don’t matter how rich or poor,whether you are a prostitute or a ceo or what nationality. Every victim should be treated with dignity and given a respectable investigation.

Comment by Sharise | November 21, 2005, 6:00 pm

WAYNE BENSON WAS A VERY DEAR FRIEND OF MINE. I KNEW HIM FOR MANY YEARS BEFORE HE WENT TO THAT GODFORSAKEN ISLAND OF ARUBA. HE SHARED HIS STRUGGLES WITH ME AND I ENCOURAGED HIM TO COME HOME WHERE PEOPLE LOVE AND CARE ABOUT HIM BUT WAYNE WAS STUBBORN AND TOO PROUD TO GIVE UP. HE SAID “I NEED TO MAKE A GO OF IT”. WAYNE WAS THE KIND OF GUY WHO WOULD ALWAYS BE READY TO HELP SOMEBODY ELSE WITHOUT REGARD FOR HIMSELF. THE MOST CARING AND UNSELFISH PERSON I HAVE EVER KNOWN.

Comment by TOM CROWLEY | November 21, 2005, 8:42 pm

I was trolling the IMDB site tonite for a few movies and as per usual I went off course with links and found an actress in a movie that was shot twice in the chest outside her west hollywood apartment by a man that had received her autograph 20 minutes before he killed her and had asked her out but she said she was busy. This got me to thinking about senseless murder, like John Lennon, the Manson murders and many more. Her name by the way is Rebecca Shaeffer. She was 21 years old. What a motive. No date, bang bang …

I decided to do a little research, and I came up with some very disturbing figures. On average, in the last 5 years, 16,600 americans are murdered every year. That’s 44 people per day. The vast majority of these murders are comitted with guns. 43% of these murders are comitted in the southern states … Louisiana, Alabama, Texas etc … the reason by statistics showing racism between blacks and whites.

This past Sunday, a 20 year old kid in Tacoma decided he’d take an AK-47 into a mall and go on a shooting spree and take hostages because he was mad at his ex girlfriend. A few weeks ago an 18 year old man killed his 14 year old girlfriend’s parents with a gun, and the two of them took off till they were arrested. A few weeks ago, a “gothic” (described the media) type of teenager bludgeoned to death Daniel Horowitz’s wife. He is 16 years old. About six weeks ago, a convict and his “girlfiend” planned an escape from a courthouse and killed a policeman in the process. These are just a few of the probable 8000+ murders in the usa since Natalee Holloway disappeared.

Look at these statistics. Look at them. If you don’t believe me, look them up yourself. Takes 5 minutes.

Just a note to all you americans here that are screaming about another american being found dead in a “container” in Aruba. I think you had better think about the possible 8000+ americans that have been murdered in your own country since NH disappeared and stop thinking about a random death in Aruba. I think before you open your keyboards here, you should think about where YOU live, and how unsafe it is to be living there. Statistically speaking, it is much more probable that an american will be kiiled in a mall while shopping than in Aruba. It is much more probable that a famous american will be shot to death in america than in Aruba. Would you like to talk about children? It is much more likely for a young child to be kidnapped, raped and murdered in america than it is in Aruba.

Stop calling Aruba an unsafe place to live.

Pay attention to your own country.

All you americans here that are badmouthing the living conditions in Aruba are total hypocrites.

Comment by jim hanson | November 22, 2005, 6:55 am

Goeie morgen,

Today there is an official statement by the Friends of the American man that was found dead in the container.

Like I said before, he had a heart condition and this was atributed to his death. However I was misinformed by two of his friends that it was as consequence of an overdose.

His friends want to make it clear that it was a heart attack and not a suicide. He used to lock himself in the container he uses as a shop. It even had air conditioning and normal door installed.

They ended the statement in English for those who are using his name right now:

“Wayne,we have to clear your name, because we as your closest friends know that you were clean. Francis, Eric, Arris, Paul, Natalie, Goy, Igor, Nancy, Saturno, Florencio, Alex, Gui, Hubert, Patrick and Aldo. Cu nos amigo Wayne sosega na Paz.”

Posted by: MF | Nov 22, 2005 6:54:23 AM

Comment by C.I.T. | November 22, 2005, 9:18 am

The mother of Max and Beth Twitty have one thing in common. They both arrived in Aruba with their flyers already printed. Beth Twitty arrived on Tuesday with a bunch of flyers saying that her daughter was kidnapped before even speaking to anyone in particular about the possible disappearance of her daughter. The mother of Max came to Aruba with her new boyfriend and her two children, her late husband just passed away (FBI should investigate the cause of death) and after a few days had flyers printed already and assumed that Max drowned. How can a mother five up so fast on her son. And the person who was with Max last was an American that according to the mother they met just that day!?! Aruba is NOT dangerous. The people who come here to commit their crimes are the ones that are so dangerous. Sad, very sad.

Comment by Rina | November 22, 2005, 4:06 pm

Someone said “how many people will have to die before they see Aruba is evil” or something like that. The answer = 0
1 is a missing persons case
1 is probably a suicide

Your welcomed!

Comment by commonsense | November 22, 2005, 6:27 pm

I share my sentiment with Tom. Wayne Benson walked into my life 7 years ago. Wayne was a well respected, caring, and thoughtful individual, who tried very hard to live his dream of making island life work for him. He had a wonderful way about him that was appealing to so many people. He had an outgoing personality, a soft spoken voice, and a kind, generous spirit. We used to climb the big mountain in Aruba years ago — we used to have “pot-boiling” discussions about life - we used to listen to “Johnny Lang” while Wayne worked on motorcyles and I enjoyed lounging in the hot summer sun!! I used to listen intently as he told me about the day to day struggles that island life brought his way. Wayne was strong and courageous - he gave it his best shot to make a life on the island - it was very hard for him, as it would be for any of us - he just took it a step further than most of us would and kept at it for 7 years - always believing it would get better. We all hoped things would have gotten better for him…. I believe in my heart that Wayne is at peace with God now and that his spirit will live on in each of us that knew him. My heartfelt condolences to his family.

Comment by Michelle St. Michael | November 22, 2005, 7:36 pm

From the Forum … Aruba Girl
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=312702#312702

Sort of off-topic, but according to an article in Diario today the guy who died in the container died from an heart attack. The article was signed by his friends who wanted to set the record straight.

My excuses if it was already reported, just saw that you guys were interested in it.

Good evening.

Comment by Scared Monkeys | November 22, 2005, 10:51 pm

Commonsense: Which one is a suicide? the guy in a container? I didnt know you could do that
When i decide to commit suicide after im done im going to lock myself
in a container. Or better yet ill kill myself IN the container, dying in a cramped space
of lack of oxygen is probably the most comfortable and quickest way to go

Comment by derp | November 23, 2005, 2:39 am

My condolences and prayers to Mr. Benson’s family. Way to young..

Beth hasn’t said anything about the NUMBER of crimes in Aruba or Alabama,

Her complaint is and has been all along after a crime is committed, they get a botched investigation, and Dave being told, we was kinda hoping it would all just go away by now. Last I knew there were no missing Aruban tourists in Alabama with cases handled like that.

As for flyers.. everyone always says the first 48 hour of an investigation are crucial.. When her daughter didn’t come home on the plane with her classmates, thats a good indication her daughter was kidnapped or worse.
Dave said when he arrived about 48 hours after she went missing ..the first 2 police stations on the island didn’t even know there was a missing girl. They sent him to a 3rd station, where he was asked, how much money do you have and go drink a beer, she’ll be back.
Look what was done in the first 10 days of this investigation. That’s what their complaint is..

Comment by Sharise | November 23, 2005, 7:00 am

Tom Crowley and Michell St. Michael: My heart felt sympathies to you both. It’s always difficult to lose a friend.

Comment by monkey wench | November 23, 2005, 12:08 pm

To everyone who knew my dad,thank-you for your condolences.My dad lived his life the way he wanted and nobody can fault him for that after all nobodies perfect.Some of us can slay our demons and others can not.We all miss him greatly

Comment by Daviid Benson | December 11, 2005, 6:48 pm

Wayne had 30 years of problems……But he is at peace now…… David good luck with your life and move forward with only fond memories thats what will help you go on!

Comment by Friend from the past | December 23, 2005, 8:46 pm

Beth Twitty, Arlene Ellis Schipper, Joe Tacopina will be on Greta tonight.

Comment by San | April 17, 2006, 9:40 pm

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hahahah  Smish I knew I was gonna like you!! :D[/quote]

LOL....renHO brings the :twisted: out in me.

Appeals, there is a good chance this man is Charles Croes.

And yes, the sporting shoes reference caught my eye also. Along with Deepak's non-explanation as to why he even "shot his mouth off" about it in the first place.

I threw that out there as well as that guy Peeps who used to post here (worked at automotive place).... The American mechanic worked for the Harley Davidson repair shop... not sure the name of it.. we have the location thanks to SunFreak.

I am totally with you ---reading that statement... that "chit" could well be the carpeting and some forensics belonging to Natalee.

the idea that he said "shot his mouth off".... I mean who says that about themselves???

JVDS & Automotive Enterprises

The goon is saying that if they find the girl, they find the car mats/carpets, which implicates k2 -- BUT NOT JVDS.

IMO.

He is threatening k2.

ANd if paulus indeed masterminded hiding of body of Natalee -- then every possible link to his son would have been removed (of course, maybe not everything ala DNA, but any and all obvious signs which could be tracked back to jvds, like sneakers, eg).

AND, all possible incriminating evidence tying K2 to the body would be there with the body -- anything and everything.

And then railroad job "number two" would commence.

This all strongly suggests that a badly injured or assualted, or even dead, Natalee was in the kalpoe car at some point.

Exactly! and when Joran realized that the pin job on the 2 security guards was falling through(right about this time), he turned his sites to the Kalpoe borthers !

Automotive Enterprises N.V.
Address: Wayaca z/n
Phone: (297) 582-6594
Fax: (297) 583-4499  
Categories: Automobile parts -new-

Wouldn't it seem strange that they would take a body to a courthouse and not a hospital, morgue, or coroner's office?

Hi Smish,
I just take it as Joran is trying so desperatly to put someone else (in the case 1 or both of the K's) as the last person to be with Natalee.  

Unfortunatly for him, he cannot do it.  As hard as he tries to NOT be the last person with Natalee, he cant change it.  Why?  Because he really was the last person with her.

They all raped her, Joran killed her, and then Joran and his dad got rid of the body afte the K2's split for home and left him to take care of the mess he created when he killed her.  This is why Deepaks statement in the back of the police car "your own father?, unbelieveable"  Deepak couldnt believe Joran recruited his own father to help get rid of the body.  We already know that Deepak knows that Joran raped her, he said it in his previous statement.   He just omits the part where he and his brother take a turn too.

Hey Mrs.Red. "Shot my mouth off" to me means a statement made out of emotion followed by regret. ie...I shouldn't have mentioned the sporting shoes...so please forget about it...for i have no explanation for it.

If this was Charles Croes he was speaking too, i would like to hear his version.

They have the dna from the floorboard.

I thought this guy was a mechanic for the Harley Davidson dealership but dont take that as gospel.

Yeah... but we are talking about a place where people in trouble call the radio station and Carlos/charlies versus the police for help... who knows!??

If You Find Jorans Shoes ............

You Will Find Natalee ...........

 :roll:

Yes... as a matter of fact - I would love to hear the entire unedited version of Charles' interview with Greta... remember it from early June?  Very clandestine.  Knowing what we know now... it may be more meaningful.

That's right. :wink:

re - reading it, it was a shop that repairs Harleys... big diff... but we still don't know if it was automotive enterprises or not.

WHERE ARE THE SHOES ???

JORAN used them as a BUOY MARKER  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


DOGS...
hmmmmm

maybe they buried her clothes on the BEACH and could not FIND them
and brought some DOGS to the BEACH to help find em  


BASTARDS

You are correct.

I don't remember the container being locked from the 'inside'.

you are right, i just read that article up above that says "a shop that repairs cars and motorcycles"

I have never heard of a Harley dealer that repairs cars and I have been to ALOT of Harley dealerships!!

Saturday, June 11, 2005
 
 
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Reports conflicted Saturday in developments of the Alabama honor student who has been missing in Aruba for almost two weeks.

David Cruz*** a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.

However, Cruz later retracted the statement, saying he was a victim of a "misinformation campaign."

The mother of the 18-year-old told FOX News authorities had not yet contacted them with this information but did say that Natalee's father, who is divorced from her mother, was with investigators looking for the body.

These reports came after significant, and at times conflicting, developments with the five suspects being detained in the case.

The "Diario," a local daily newspaper, is reporting that a human blood sample found in a car at the residence of one of the teens in custody — the 17-year-old son of a high-ranking island judicuary official — is now being sent to the U.S. and will be tested for a possible match to Natalee, whose mother gave a blood sample to investigators.


One of the young men detained admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach, a police officer said, while prosecutors said the investigation was at a crucial point.

But prosecutors refused to comment on the statement by Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig (search), who told The Associated Press that the man who made that admission was leading police to the scene. He refused to identify which of the three young men who took Holloway to a northern beach the night she went missing made the statement.

Police refused Saturday morning to say whether they discovered anything overnight to solve the mystery of what happened to Holloway, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30.

Referring to Dompig's statement, prosecution spokeswoman Vivian van der Biezen (search) said Saturday: "We neither confirm nor deny any information coming from other sources ... [about] alleged statements of suspects in this case."

"The investigation at the moment is the following: Five suspects are being held ... and we are at a very crucial, very important moment in our investigation," she said.

A judge ruled Saturday that police can continue to detain three young men — two Surinamese brothers and the Dutch teen — arrested in the disappearance of Holloway.

Police also have detained two other men — former security guards at a hotel near the one where Holloway was staying. No one has been charged in the case.

Holloway vanished during a five-day trip to the Dutch Caribbean island with 124 classmates and seven chaperones celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook, Ala., High School, near Birmingham. Police found her U.S. passport and packed bags in her hotel room after she failed to show up for her return flight that day.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber said on national radio Friday night that if something happened to Holloway, it would damage the reputation of this island of 97,000 people, which depends on tourism and is considered one of the safest spots in the Caribbean.

In Holloway's hometown, her friends gathered after midnight at a church where people have been holding prayer vigils for her. Some hugged and cried; one woman left a flickering candle at the base of a wall decorated with messages to Holloway, who had earned a full scholarship to the University of Alabama, where she planned to study medicine.

Antonio Carlo, an attorney for the Dutch minor, told the AP: "My client maintains his innocence."

Holloway's mother and stepfather told The Birmingham News in Alabama that they discovered the Dutch boy's connection to their daughter within 24 hours of her disappearance by talking to other students on the trip. They then found surveillance videotapes showing him playing poker with other Mountain Brook teens in their hotel casino two days before she vanished.

A lawyer for one of the Surinamese — Satish Kalpoe, 18, whose brother, Deepak, 21, also is in custody — said they told police they took Holloway to Arashi Beach, on the northern part of the island, in the early hours of May 30.

According to their police statement, they did not get out of the car, Carlo said. Instead, Holloway and the Dutch teen, an honors student at the Aruba International School whom she had met at the casino in her hotel, "were in the back seat kissing."

They also told police that they dropped Holloway at her Holiday Inn at about 2 a.m. and last saw her being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off, Kock said.

The brothers told police the blonde, blue-eyed young woman was drunk and refused to get out of the car, said Noraina Pietersz, who is representing Mickey John, 30, one of the two former security guards. He and Abraham Jones, 28, have been detained since Sunday.

The three young men said Holloway stumbled in the parking lot of the hotel but refused help from her Dutch escort, Kock said.

Holiday Inn employees say security cameras did not record Holloway's return. A Holiday Inn guard who worked the overnight shift that day said he did not see her, said Pietersz, who said she reviewed the guard's statement to police.

[/b]

I'm really behind, so this may have been mentioned~
What about Mark Fuhrman on Dana's show?

And that is a fact!  Proven when Greta was in aruba the last time.  ale published a bolo for her the next day!  

Dayum!!!  If they only knew what a 'clue' was!!!!

Hi Monkeys...
Dropping by for a bit  and got a question  on this
from "DEEPAK - JUNE 10TH STATEMENT "


My question~  when did Deepak go to police station at Bubali and where was he and Joran together  that there is water & sand AND Joran got back in the car?
 :?

TIA

Filthy rotten creeps.
With Paulus being the biggest creep of them all.Anita and Paulus....hope they are proud of the monster they made.I hope their parenting skills have no effect on the 2 other sons. :x

 :shock:

I would LOVE that for selfish reasons... would love to know his take.  

What we were brainstorming on is trying to get the word out to the WORLD about these statements being released... I was just saying that simply emailing Greta etc. doesn't guarantee that the audience will be educated on how obvious it is that there is a cover up... unless someone like Mark F. is a guest and HE puts the pieces together.

Sadly, Greta and the others have no idea what has been going on and certainly don't remember the details that we do regarding who said what and when.... they wouldn't do it justice unless they tied it all together.

Just to add a little regarding the work that was done on Deepak's car.  My nephew happened to walk in the house and I show him the part of Deepak's statement about his car.  My nephew does the exact kind of work that Deepak is talking about.  I asked him for his comments and he said the following:

Automotive carpet is formed to the contour of the car and is not glued down it is held in place by the seats and door sill plates. Also there is no reason to remove the carpet to run wires. Even in the most expensive systems there is no reason to remove the carpet.  In order to remove the carpet you must remove the front and rear seats and center console.  Also if you have the same make/model car all the parts are interchangeable.

Auto Excellence
Cura Cabai 137
San Nicolas, Aruba
Phone:011-297-584-5833

http://www.rccomponents.com/aruba.htm

Near San Nicholas

Greta only remembers her checks to Scientology and DNC.

"Every time we (Deepak, Freddy) asked him about the shoes, he did not answer".

This quote from Deepak comes from Tuesday, the 1st week. If true, it opens up the possibility of NO BEACH at all. Deepak and Freddy already know at this point that Joran left her at the beach. Why would Joran be reluctant to tell them that his shoes were left there also?

Looking at the bottom of this map, Cura Cabai is in San Nicholas which is below Savaneta where Lorenzo lives.  It is in between Lorenzo's house and the Baby Beach area where the bloody mattress was found.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/canashito5.jpg)

From DK's 6/13/05 statement:

On Friday two weeks ago he had arainged a lawyer for us.  

For what it is worth, the meeting with Nadira and Paulus and "family" and this day Paulus arranged for the Kalpoes to have a lawyer was Friday June 3rd.

Wow! Great info. And a big thanks to San's nephew!

 :cry: Hmmmm,very interesting,also very interesting that Deepak even brought this up as it is now a obvious lie.Why make up a lie if you don't HAVE to?I think he got the carpet and some other parts of his car switched out....they may have had Natalee's blood or other DNA on them.

already DONE  :twisted:

Nancy Grace's email contact:

http://www.courttv.com/contact/nancy_grace/index.html

I am an automotive engineer (over 14 years now) and I agree with your nephew.  Also, there is no reason to use "sealant" as Deepak says unless they are replacing a portion of the floor pan (a section of the sheet metal under the carpet)  Interesting that he says he doesnt know if previous owne had any accidents.  Could a portion of the floor pan have been replaced in Deepaks car?  This would be the only way to truley get rid of any DNA evidence as there are many areas under the carpet that could hold dna evidence.

Gunslinger, regarding Robert Benson's employer, Sunfreak2 found the article that said the shop was in Cura Cabay, which is in the San Nicholas area.  

I do not think the Big Twin Harley place in Oranjestad is it.  

Sorry if someone has already pointed this out.

because he GOT them DIRTY when he was looking for an BANDONED SEPTIC tank

That's what Joran said kept him in jail all summer.  I think it was in the ACA interview that he said he deserved to spend the summer in jail because he lied.

maybe they used this "glue and sealants" to cover any trace evidence?

Also have emailed N. Grace.

INTERESTING POINTS:

Cups and lots of cups by all parties, white car, Automotive Industries, frequent urination, shoes and "all that shit".

Those above-noted items seem to be key.

I have been missing you.  Good to see you back with us.  Hope all is well.

On 1/15/06 at 4:30 pm "Anonymous" said:

Not long ago, a car mechanic who was killed inside a storage trailer, worked on the boat's outboard marine engine.  He found a piece of fabric and some sea animals (human remains?) stuck in the input sea water cooler tube at the back of the  propeller shaft stem.  He was talking about it when he was cleaning the  engine shaft.  

This note was from Michelle Said So Blog.  I think I posted this comment long time ago but it was lost because of crash.  Reposting because we have so many new members.

I think the whole car was switched out from one with tinted windows to one without tinted windows.  The muffler & DVD's & stereo being added too.  Easier to switch out the whole car then to try to make sure every hair, every skin cell, every last drop of blood or DNA is out of the car.

San
Your nephew is correct that you do not have to remove the carpet..
and standard auto is molded to the model of the car..

Many, many, many  years ago I helped a friend install NON automotive carpet into his 65  Galaxy.  We had to use contact cement to get the carpet to conform to the floor contour.

Thank you Tyler.  Good to be back.  All is well is a relative term.  Certainly my life is a lot easier than a lot of my monkey friends.  Thank you for your kind concern.

The statement says they weren't asking him where the shoes were, they were asking him why he had left them there.

Who's boat is anonymous referring to?

LOW PROFILE, KEY PLAYERS/WHAT IS THEIR PART?

Mickey John, Abraham Jones, Guido Wever, Lorenzo VR, Robert Benson, the beheaded refinery worker, a bartender known as Pitbull and Freddy.

It seems like a diversionary tactic because the family was getting too close.  They had to throw the family off the track and move the body to a secure location when they knew the family would be diverted.

Can someone post that photo that shows the whole M beach area from FH on the left side to teh Marriott on the right including the roads?

And where exactly is Bubali and why woudl the trio have been interviewed there? I'm guessing it's near the K2 home?

Unfortunately I have no way to tell because that was the only post I could find that referred to this at that time.  It would not have to necessarily be the perp's boat used IMO because any boat operating in the area could have sucked anything in.(?)

very good point oldfart !!!!

If they replaced the carpet in Deepaks car to get rid of the evidence, and they used carpet that was not molded/made for the vehicle, they would have had to use ALOT of glue to get it to stay in place.

These molded carpets are not the easiest/fastest things to get ahold of, and I imagine even harder/longer to get on one happy island.  If they were in a hurry to replace the carpet, they may have just used some standard carpet you would buy at a carpet store plau ALOS of glue/sealants to hold it in place.

Isn't there a statement by Joran missing here?  There should be one before the June 13 statement, where he claims 2K dropped him off at his home and drove off with Natalee

Thanks Shiz. I reread that part. All these statements after months of nothing has me on information overload.

"It happened twice that someone spilled a drink in my car. Once it was a 'Cherry Coke" that spilled on the seat on the passenger side and where the hand break is. That happened when I was with my brother. The other time someone bumped/crashed into my car from the back while I was holding a "whisky Coke". It fell between my legs, on the seat on the passenger side and on the carpet on the floor at the passenger side.

To your question whether the girl threw up/vomited in my car, I can say the following. The girl did not throw up in my car.

**can mean both things with/to, without more context unable to say whether it is the one or the other.

To your question whether anyone has has ever thrown up in my car, I can say the following.

Nobody has ever thrown up/vomited in my car. "


So, where did the chocolate come from?  He recalls everytime anyone has ever spilled/dropped anything in his car, but no mention of chocolate.

Bingo!!!!!!!!!! Someone needs to send this one to the family... it's a keeper.  Good teamwork.  :lol:

decent Maps at http://arubayp.com/mappages.html?PageNumber=1
but you have to use next to see the next map and record the url #
they do not have hot links

maybe he replaced the seats?  i mean what the heh... if he did, he wouldn't know that someone had had a chocolate fest in it.  But if he did know it, I guarantee you  - he wouldn't have bought the car... ha.

fix my dam typos first! :wink:

Blah... lmao.   :!:

There is a statement prior to that, but there is no OFFICIAL statement regards the claim that K2 dropped waterhead off at his house and left with Natalee.

Anymore you can order these new pre molded carpets online in many places. Several come with new under padding

waterhead

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
oh dam, thats funny
waterhead

Gota run for a bit..

If anyone comes up with even a partial answer to my ? on page 8
as to the date Deepak was summoned to the police station at Bubali
I would love to know..

I have a gut feeling this it was within 2 days of Natalee being missing.
We know they made statements within the 1st few days

TIA

SeeeYaaByeee

for classic cars that are being restored, yes you can order one online.

but a newer honda civic in Aruba?  You cant just run up to the autoparts store and pick this up. Do you have a website?  How long would it take to get one for Deepaks car?  They didnt have much time to take care of this.

The statement shoud be from June 11 I think.

also, you wouldnt have to use "alot of glue and sealants" for one of these premolded ones.  As a matter of fact, you do not need ANY glue at all.

Think it was May 31 or June 1.  

I have a work in progress timeline for statement info here (wish I could do it on here too but no edit option:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4534.0

WATERSHED MOMENT:  Following the statement that was retracted on 6/11/06.  What happened?  The K2 and J2 seem to be dividing and the glue used in the automobile is no longer coalescing their stories.  In fact, the stories are falling apart, mutating and like amoebas, changing and dividing constantly.

Within days, a man is beheaded.  What happened that involved this man?  What happened that made Joran so sure the body would never be found and he could go on the offensive rather than defensive.

 :shock:   Great point!!

Is it because I am and old and forgetful or because I think I recall Paulus took the Sporter and the K2 into a police station the morning (daylight time) following the visit upon the Sloot household.

They got rid of the body and the person(s) that got rid of the body.

I don't know if it is a partial answer or not, but on 6/3 CNN reported..."there were three people that they talked to..And those three individuals are on the island.  they were spoken to once by officials -- interviewed.  And we understand, according to some of our sources there that they have been called back for a second interview" ...

Also, on 6/3 SAMBO stated the police questioned and released three aruban classmates who said they dropped Holloway off early Monday...

So obviously by Friday 6/3, the 5th day after May 29, they were already bringing them in for a second interview.

Don't forget that June 11th is also the date that the aru-bay Rock videos were uploaded.  June 10-13 there is alot of activity, IMO

what day were the 2 security guards released?  Maybe the retracted "confession and the suspect is leading us to the body" was supposed to be from one of the security guards but someone didnt get the memo that there was a change of plans.  Then they had to retract that statement because Beth pretty much cleared them.

It seems that K2's and Joran turning on each other sort of coincides with the 2 security guards frame-up falling through doesnt it?

Does 'no way in hell would they do this, because if this happened the car would be totalled' work for you?

Because it came from another car!

Now that is an interesting thought, Blah.  I had always assumed that the confession was made by Joran or the Kalpoes, but you might be on to something.

I'm sorry blah, maybe I was not clear.  THe only reason for getting rid of this is to attempt to destroy dna present on the floor pan.

Late ya'll!   I got bubba burgers on the grill!

anyway you look at it, i doubt part of the floorpan was replaced - too much work.  If anything, the reason for all the glue and sealants would have been to make a carpet work that was not molded specifically for Deepaks car.

The above is the most likely scenario although I tend to believe the back seat and headliner might have also been replaced.  No way to know of those as probably do not require the glue.

As for replacing the entire car, even in Aruba cars are likely registered using the VIN number.  This is put on various parts and places throughout cars these days as an anti-theft, stripping precaution and it is just about impossible to remove all the different places a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number given by the manufacturer) in all these nooks and crannies.  That is the point of putting them there and in places one cannot access without taking the motor apart, etc.

For this reason I do not think it would have been possible to switch out the entire car.  Blah would probably know about this as would other posters.  You could never find let alone chance all the VIN numbers on the average car without a great deal of trouble and time.

JMO

.

you are correct, last time i checked, it was over 100 places.  Also, there are special rivets that hold the VIN plate to the dashboard in the lower left(drivers side) corner of the windshield.   Only auto manufacturers and people who steal these rivets from auto manufacterers can get their hands on these rivets.

hhi monkeys
ifound this article at todays diario paper under local section

SUCESONAN

Daño na turismo! MUCHANAN ENVOLVI DEN ATRACO RIBA TURISTA

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Recientemente un grupo di hoben a atraca un turista, y esaki a socede na altura di un Highrise Hotel.  E grupo anti social a ranca tas di turista, pero e biaha aki si guardianan di seguridad a reacciona y a logra gara un di e sospechosonan.

   Segun e informe cu lo tabata  trata di un total di 5 mucha, kendenan ta meti den e caso.   Awor cu Recherche tin un di nan deteni, di cual su inicialnan ta W.M. di 20 aña.

HOMBER KIER PA HENDENAN


translation
Ruining our tourism.  Group of youngsters involved in beting up tourist!
(Ornasjestad AAN) recently a group of younsters beat a turist.  This occured in the hights of Highrise Hotel. This group of antisocials then ran after the tourist, however the security guards working there was able to chase and catch one of the youngsters
  According to the information gained it involved 5 youths, all together in this case. W.M. a twenty yr old male was detained.  


  My notes when i tried to click on this article to see if there was more on the case it kept saying this page no longer visible. that is all the info stated in todays diario  wed aug 8 2006 under local info posts.

ALE reported that there was blood in Deepak's car, but that turned out to be chocolate & cleaning fluid.  There was also no trace evidence of Natalee ever being in that car.  No hair, no skin cells, no fingerprints, etc.  The only way we know she was in a silver Honda was b/c of the MB kids.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that Deepak was able to get every drop of blood, hair, etc out of his car.  That would take a lot of time, special equipment and be very conspicuous.  Either he had professional help, ALE fudged samples & results, or there was a different car.

Only from memory, but weren't the SG's released June 17th?

Thanks Sandy - I saw it and gathered what it was about but since I don't read Pap, I wasn't sure.

I vote for different car, or at least the car samples sent to the Netherlands and the FBI were from a different car.

Sand in the hour glass of computer time has run out.  Carry on monkeys.  You're doing great as usual.

I always believe cars were traded out.  ALE probably never checked VIN numbers or registration plates on either car, just took their word for it because they knew it was a cover-up and they took the path of least resistance.

The timeline posted by Sunfreak2 on page 5 or 6 of this thread says they were released on 6/13....same day that van der Straaten questoned Joran....mmmmm..

Great thining, blah.

BLAH

great thinking there, squirrely as a fox.

Great thinKing, blah...no edit button.... :roll:

I thought it was the 12th, i'm pretty sure it was a Sunday.  For no apparent reaso  - they were held a few extra days even after it was known that they had nothing to do with the case too.

Could quite possibly be all three.  We have the highest people in the government involved in this coverup.  They can make anything happen.

Aruba releases two security guards
Had been held in case of missing teen

Monday, June 13, 2005 Posted: 11:32 PM EDT (0332 GMT)
   

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Authorities in Aruba have released two security guards arrested in the disappearance of an Alabama teen late last month.

Abraham Jones, 28, and Mickey John, 30, who work at a beachfront hotel near where Natalee Holloway was staying, were arrested in the case on June 5 but were never charged.

Holloway, 18, was discovered missing May 30. Three men remain in custody in the case -- none of them formally charged as yet.

Police have identified the three men still in custody as brothers Satish Kalpoe, 18, and Depak Kalpoe, 21, and their friend, Joran Van Der Sloot, 17, the son of an Aruban judge. The attorneys for each have said their client claims innocence.

The three young men told police they took Holloway to a beach after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub with her early May 30, when she was last seen. They said they returned her to her hotel not long afterward.

Holloway, from the Birmingham, Alabama, suburb of Mountain Brook, was in Aruba with classmates who were celebrating their graduation from high school.

On Sunday, law enforcement sources close to the investigation said a substance found in a Honda seized after three of the men were arrested Thursday is not blood, based on a sample analyzed at an FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia.

On Monday, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber said Aruba's government "is doing the utmost" to find Holloway.

"We hope that we will find Natalee Holloway alive, and are still praying that there is nothing bad that has happened to her," Oduber said Sunday.

Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told The Associated Press on Sunday that she believes the three young men still being held in the case "know what happened to her." She also said the two security guards should be released. (Full story)

While expressing "deep concern" over Holloway's fate, Oduber also sought to reassure the media that the island is safe for visitors, noting that more than 60 percent of Aruba's income comes from tourism and more than 45,000 Arubans work in that industry.

"That's why we make an appeal to our local press and international press that the government and everybody involved will do the job," he said.

The search for Holloway was scaled back during the weekend, with teams venturing out only after receiving credible tips and coast guard patrols off shore.

CNN's Karl Penhaul contributed to this report.

THanks Shizaru

and from your timeline at BFN


MY point is if Joran got out of the car and walked away with Natalee at the beach. and no one picked him up..   How did he get in the car with all the SAND on him?
A simple follow-up question in here MIGHT have made a big difference... but NOOOO that could not happen :twisted:  :twisted:

This is interesting from Deepak's statement:

"On Tuesday two weeks ago, about 19.00 hours, I went to the house of Joran. Freddie was at the house of Joran. Joran had said to me that he had told Freddie the story about the Holiday Inn and also the truth. Joran had said only Freddy because he is my best friend. I had asked Joran if he did anything with/to* the girl. Joran had told us that he did not do anything with/to* the girl and that the girl had fallen asleep on the beach and that he had left her there."

now Deepak was with Joran the next day/night after Natalee "disappears."  He is with Joran when he gets the call from Paulus that the family/police are at the house (this would have been Monday night right?)  And he goes to the van der sloot compound to meet with everyone, puts an alibi together on the way there or whatever, yet waits until 7:00pm on Tuesday to ask Joran if he did anything with/to* Natalee?  Bullshit Deepak.

Sand in car from Joran... When the HT's arive at the Sloot compound and Deepak and Joran are there, there is a statment from the laywer that is with Joe T's response... there is a statement from the lawyer with information provided by Beth / Jug, etc. Joran was dressed in a casual manner and there was sand. Deepak never says that it was the Sunday night that Joran got into his vehicle and messed it up with sand.
Could have been the Monday. That is my guess.
.
Does anyone know where I can find the exact time that Beth and family / friends actually arrive at the Sloot compound ?  
.Deepak sya he got off work at 11:10 the Monday. Satish picked him up. They went to the Kalpoe house and then Deepak went to the Radisson as he had called Joran just before he got off work. Says he got to the Radisson at midnight. And he thinks they left to go to the Wyndham at 2 ish. In the Wyndham parking lot is when he says they got the call from Paulus.

I know we have been kicking around Deepaks carpet ect...

but have to back-up just a bit  
from the his June 13th statement


Why did Deepak volunteer all the additional information on the carpet?
He answered the question in the 1st sentence  undelined and then added all the other information unerlined in red.

Either there is a question posed that we did not get in this "document" or Deepak is maybe anticipating what the next question might relate to.

JMO

Freddy must tell the truth.  He told Freddy the STORY ABOUT THE HI AND ALSO THE TRUTH.  (What is the truth?).  Freddy must tell the truth.

5:00 AM = The TWITTY’s, CROES, G. Ruffner PAGE Jr., Alberto, JODY BEARMAN, PAUL LILLY-the student chaperone, the UNITED STATES D.E.A. agent, the UNITED STATES F.B.I. agent, the CROES/TWITTY’s mutual friends, a kid who knows CROES, the kid who knows Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, and 2 ARUBAN policemen arrive back at SLOOT home.

BETH and JUG TWITTY told FOX News on 7-5 that it was Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE (not Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE) who was with Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT casually leaning back against Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE’s “Honda” when the police pulled back up to the house at 5:00 AM on 5-31 and the meeting between the ARUBAN policemen, when the Suspects SLOOT‘s, the UNITED STATES D.E.A. agent, JODY BEARMAN, the UNITED STATES F.B.I. agent, PAUL LILLY-the student chaperone, and the TWITTY’s took place. (Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE, apparently, gave Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT a ride home from “Wyndham Hotel“ casino? Where is Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE?)

BETH and JUG TWITTY told FOX News on 7-5 that it was Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE (not Current Suspect SATISH KALPOE) who was with Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT and both Suspects were just casually leaning back against Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE’s “Honda” when the police pulled back up to the house at 5:00 AM on 5-31 and the meeting between the ARUBAN policemen, when the Suspects SLOOT‘s, the UNITED STATES D.E.A. agent, JODY BERMAN, PAUL LILLY-the student chaperone, and the TWITTY’s took place.

BETH stays in a car. The meeting lasts approximately 1 hour.

On 10-13 when BETH was asked if she heard any 5-31 early morning statements made by Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT about him sexually assaulting NATALEE, BETH replied, “That would be information that I obtained second hand. I did not hear Joran say this among the group. I was the only witness that remained in the car, but Jug has since relayed exactly what Joran had said.”

OldFart,
He might be anticipating but he is supposed to state the question back in his answer to make sure he understood.  Is the method they seem to use in interrogation.  Since nothing about the added information, one would have to assume it volunteered as you say possibly in anticipation of another question.

But note each time they are required to state question back in their answer.  Very effective shortcut in transcribing I am sure.

.

Blah
Now now...  now cussing...COW PIES are acceptable and maybe even this
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/d619ba60.gif)

You do not want to be in LaLa's book do you :wink:

Besides he was 21-22 at the time and when Joarn says this is the story we need to tell ......and he agrees...
YUP... we have not a clue yet as to the real truth..

JMO of course

Freddy knows the truth and could make $250 grand in 10 minutes by doing the right thing.  He would then probably be a millionaire very soon after.  Freddy - do the right thing.

if you only knew how much cussing this case has caused me.  I'd be in the poor house if i had to put a quarter in the jukebox everytime.

:lol:

Blah
page 8 has my original question and quote from Deepak statement of something like Joran almost fell in the water.
Water at the casinos..??
I think Shiz and I are assuming that he was summoned to the police station within a day or two.  It may have been longer.
Whenever it occured when was Joarn with him and got sand in the car prior to that.
IF the BEACH drop occured as described.. Joran got out and left and no one picked him up in that car  NO sand from Joran on that occasion

Anna
Why would Deepak be anticipating a question of why the carpet in his car was glued down?  When they only asked who the prior owner was?

Mom had an old style Mason Jar that we all had to put nickel, dime or quarter into based upon the word used.  Anything over a quarter did not matter..
that got into different restrictions (for me anyway) :wink: :lol:

seems to have been a really sandy area where the gardner witness claims to have seen them sitting in the car, right?

.
Ok, so they went to the house. the first time.... then they went to the Wyndham because that is where Joran told his Dad he was. But Joran and Deepak weren't there because Paulus told him to stay there and Joran went home. Did they pass each other on the road ?
I am looking for some time in between Joran and Deepak leaving the Radisson to getting back to the Sloots where Joran could almost fall in the water.

I do not belive that Deepak admitted he was seen on the beach by the gardner.   I do not think Jammie Skeeters asked if he was there .. Only something about the gardner could not identify the 3rd person and he said something like " my brother"  which everone was / is assuming

It would have been nice if after hearing Joran got sand in the car.. the investigators (using that term loosely)  would have asked when & where did this occur.

ok, now i am confused.  when did the sand supposedly get in the car?  I thought he vacuumed the sand on Sunday night before he picked up Joran to goto CnC's.

are we thinking the sand got in there sometime after leaving CnC's and before the run in with the family the next night?  If this is the case, i'm all screwed up here and need to re read something.

I need to go reread some stuff cuz i'm all messed up on this sand thing.

Old Fart,  when the 3 were in the police car, and the conversation was recorded, Joran made a reference to Deepak regarding the Automotive Enterprises"  How does this tie in?

BLAH
June 10th statement
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=166
do a find on sand.. read a little before too  at least back to this point
"To your question whether I can remember the day when I was summoned to the police station at Bubali, I can say the following. Yes I remember that day. "

He said he vaccummed the car prior to going to CandC's because there 'were ants" in the car, and he didn't want the "girls to get ants on them"

Did anyone ever answer my question as to the fact I believe that the Vandersloot "boys" went to the police station just hours after Beth & Jug were at their house, say around 10 a.m.  I think it was said Paulus accompanied his slug son.  If that is correct, then did they call K2 or did K2 accompany them?

I guess Florin (or whatever her name was) is the girl they hoped would accompany them and help them lure tourists to locations where they would make pimp videos.

AZSunny

I do not know....I can speculate....  
My point is WHY DID HE BRING UP THAT THE CARPET IS GLUED DOWN
when he was not asked (as far as we can tell) about the carpet.?
He did mention spill on the carpet.. WAS any trace of said spill looked for or found?

AS far as "Automotive Enterprises".. I bet they can replace automoblie carpets or the materials / tools in the shop are appropriate for someone to do it.

I recall that and I also recall that he vacuumed the car the following week on Sunday, yet again.  Not the same Sunday, but a week following the trip to C&C.  Were they assuming girls were just waiting to be picked up for the fluffah/snuffa videos.

Deepak does not say when the sand got in the car.
He vacuumed the ants out before they went to C & C's.
He says he vacuumed the day before they went to Bulbai.
Monday night, when they said they had just left the Radisson to go to the Wyndham, they were in the Wyndham parking lot at 2 ish when Paul called. I am saying ? Didn't the HT's get to the Sloot compound the first time later than 2 ish ?

It wasn't the Tuesday. paulus wnet ans poke to theheadmaster, Robert Werner as to why Joran was late for school. As they had been up with the people from the States.

Tyler
Going from memory (what is left tonight) Joran went in AFTER school Monday sometime (i think).  It seems the three were required to give statements on Monday or Tuesday but I do not have a link or quote.
When Deepak went to the station at Bubali could have been then or later.
The Durn investigators( :? ) did not state the date in the interview..
Whether the younger son ever gave a statement.. I have no idea.
If he was home when Beth Arrived you would think the police would have aske for something..  EVEN if he said he slept through the entire night. :shock:

May 31- ~2:30 AM - BHT group arrives at Noord police station and wait for police to accompany them to the vd Sloot home

May 31 – 3 AM – Paulus emerges from house and takes the group to the Wyndham looking for Joran.  Joran is allegedly gambling with Deepak & Guido Wever at the Radisson and Wyndham casinos that evening.

May 31 – until 5 AM -  Group returns to vd Sloot home & confrontation ensues in which Joran & Deepak claim they dropped Natalee at the HI at 2AM where she encounters a security guard after stumbling & hitting her head on the ground.  Joran allegedly gives details of his sexual encounter with Natalee.  Paulus allegedly says he picked Joran up from McDonalds at 4 AM, which he later changes to 11 PM.   At some point the group allegedly goes to the Holiday Inn to view the drop off site.  

May 31 – 10 AM Beth & Jug arrive at Noord police station to file missing person report, but are told it is not needed. Reportedly, the police referred to Natalee as “puta” and Beth & Jug were made to wait while Jacobs shaves and has “corn flakes”

May 31 – ~3 PM – J2K are questioned & released

Good evening monkeys, how is everyone?

It seems like I remember them going in to make statements and Paulus accompanied them, at least Joran.  

Joran is the ONLY ONE who says younger son was there at home.  According to the manifest that Widget found, two sons accompanied Anita home later that week.  There was never any manifest found with Paulus name on it for that Sunday (when the sporter said he had to go to pick his father up at airport on arrival from Holland).  There was also never any verification whether or not Paulus had ever been anywhere or not.  Also, Joran later says he cannot drive, does not know how.  Did he lie about going to pick up his father or did he lie about his brother being home alone?  So many lies, such a big head.

Hi Lala's
Minor cussin & spitting

Seems like a lot us would like to have a one on one with some people and ask them a LOT better questions than they did and maybe (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/kickass.gif) :wink:

I noticed that.  Think Blah has a few pages dedicated to him tonight.  :lol:

If we cuss or spit using Graphic   ie.. not typing the words   Does it still count against us?? or is it double  since a picture is worth a 1000 words?
Just wondering :wink:

Everytime I read this just makes me want to blow their brains out. :evil:

ok, its starting to make more sense now - not that what Deepak is saying really makes any sense.  So we have Deepak stating that he vacuumed the car before picking Joran up to goto CnC's and we also have Deepak stating that he vacuumed his car the day before he was summoned to the police station at Bubali (whenever that was) because Joran almost fell in the water and got sand all over his shorts and legs.

Um...Red spelled out the sh*t word on the FP...I noticed, OF & Lala's.

Was wondering about something.  We previously read that Joran said that Deepak parked his car by the Radisson, and they walked to the Wyndam..the statement says they got in the car to drive to the Wyndam, when Paulus called...what's up with that??....just wondering, like OF and many others.

[quote="Tylergal']
<<Snip>>
It seems like I remember them going in to make statements and Paulus accompanied them, at least Joran.  

Joran is the ONLY ONE who says younger son was there at home.  According to the manifest that Widget found, two sons accompanied Anita home later that week.  There was never any manifest found with Paulus name on it for that Sunday (when the sporter said he had to go to pick his father up at airport on arrival from Holland).  There was also never any verification whether or not Paulus had ever been anywhere or not.  Also, Joran later says he cannot drive, does not know how.  Did he lie about going to pick up his father or did he lie about his brother being home alone?  So many lies, such a big head.[/quote]

I do not doubt what Widget found... I doubt what they may have been told by the airlines {Salt sack}

This is a basic item that Aruban News outlets or even the police should be able to verify as who was in the home that night.  
ie.. IF one or more younger brothers were home.. fine.. no misinformation has been put out.. STATE it  as fact.  
To not do so lends more to the cover-up theory

JMO

OF
Yes, a picture is worth a thousand words...and I can count.  :lol:

Blah....I love your new BLAH avi...
very cool...

I jus googled for latest news on natalee holloway and the ABC interview PRIME TIME popped up, transcript and time was 6 hours ago.

Just out of curiosity, did they re run this tonight?

I am wondering why that interview would pop up under Latest news...

Thanks if anyone knows.........

Hear ya, San...when this occurs, usually the party is speaking of themselves, but trying to divert it to others.

Thanks Jacqueline, Anna gave it to me.  I'm starting to get tired/brain is shutting down.  Probably wont be here much longer.

I'm tired too....

Well Anna out did herself on this one...It's simple. Cool.  And blue. And I love blue....

SunFreak  
thanks for the timeline... we still do not know what date the summons to Deepak to the police were occured ~ there could have been more than one

2NJ  
you can talk to LaLa's to see if she makes book entries for Front Page posters :wink:

Tyler  
Sorry I messed up you qoute with my post

Blah
Glad we are on at least SEMI on the same page.now.

Like I said sometime yesterday(?)
when I grounded my kids from going to the Mall or someplace they asked more intelligent qustions than you get out of ALE in these statement
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/explode_small.gif)

here is what I was looking for : The Greta and Charlie :

VAN SUSTEREN: So you drove over to the van der Sloot home. And any idea about what time you arrived there?
C. CROES: Close to 3:00.

VAN SUSTEREN: Prior to that time when you went to the house, had you ever heard of the van der Sloot's or had you ever been to their house before?

C. CROES: Never.

VAN SUSTEREN: So then what happened next?

C. CROES: What happened next was that, in the interim of doing that, we had notified the family that we had found a house. Then they asked us to meet them at the police station. So we went back over to the police station.

VAN SUSTEREN: About how far is the police station from the van der Sloot house?

C. CROES: Actually very close.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what did do you next? What time did you leave the police station about?

C. CROES: Some time between 2:40, 2:30, 2:45… at that time.

VAN SUSTEREN: A.M.?

C. CROES: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: And where did you go?

C. CROES: Right to the house.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who went?

C. CROES: All of the people that were there, myself included.
...........................
So, Monday night.. Deepak says the call came after they left the Radisson. They were going back to the Wyndham. Deepak got to the Radisson at 12:00 and they stayed and played for about two hours.
They left after Joran had some sort of a scene with a tourist. Guido went to take Anrde home. Deepak and Joran say they are going to the Wyndham and when they are in the parking lot at 2 ish they get the call.
Their presence is public until 2 am in the Radisson and they are not seen again until the HT's come back from the Wyndham. This is about 1 1/2 hours unaccounted for. Joran is wearing shorts and is sandy.

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — One of the three suspects being held in Aruba for the disappearance of an Alabama teen vacationing there has been moved from a jail to a prison, while the other two are expected to be transported today, two sources confirmed with FOX News.

A judge ruled last night that Deepak Kalpoe, who was moved to a prison last night, Satish Kalpoe and Joran van der Sloot can be held for eight more days while the investigation into Natalee Holloway's (search) disappearance continues.

Authorities on Friday arrested another person in connection with the disappearance of missing honors student, officials said.

According to sources, the new man detained is a 26-year-old friend of van der Sloot (search), the Dutch teenager who is said to have been with Holloway the night she disappeared.

The Aruban attorney general's office initially identified him only by the initials "S.G.C.," but Holloway's mother told an interviewer that his name was "Steve." FOX News later confirmed that the man's name was Steve Gregory Croes.

Meanwhile, police brought in yet another man for questioning Friday night, FOX News has learned. The man, Max Arends, who is also a friend of van der Sloot, is not a suspect in the case and has not been arrested.

(Story continues below)

 ADVERTISEMENTS
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Police Superintendent Jan van der Straaten told The Associated Press Croes was detained based on information from one of the other three detainees.

Croes, who works as a party boat disk jockey, said he was contacted by police Thursday night and went to the station voluntarily to give a statement, said his employer, Marcus Wiggins.

Croes also said he knew one of two Surinamese brothers being detained in the case because they went to the same Internet cafe, Wiggins told The Associated Press. However, Wiggins said that he had not seen the other three young men detained in the case on the boat where Croes works, a vessel called the Tattoo that offers nightly dining, swimming and dancing.

As for Croes' work ethic, Wiggins had nothing bad to say.

"I've never had problems with him," Wiggins told the AP. "He keeps to himself and shows up to work every day and does his job."

In Alabama, a woman who helped organize the graduation trip, Jody Bearman, said students did not go on the Tattoo as a group, although some could have taken a boat ride without the seven adult chaperones knowing.

"The chaperones were not supposed to keep up with their every move," Bearman said.

FOX News also learned that police may have questioned yet another young man, said to be of Dutch nationality, on Thursday night.

Mariaine Croes, spokeswoman for the Aruban Attorney General Caren Janssen, confirmed that Steve Croes was "in custody and being interrogated."

"Every day that the investigation continues," she told FOX News, "we are a step closer to solving this case."

Mariaine Croes also said she was no relation to Steve Croes, adding that the surname was a common one on the island.

In a separate development, a judge ruled that two of the detainees, Surinamese brothers Deepak Kalpoe (search), 21, and Satish Kalpoe (search), 18, were granted access to documents they have asked for, according to their lawyer.

Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes were questioned and released shortly after Holloway's May 30 disappearance, but then formally arrested June 9, after police moved their focus away from two security guards who had been arrested and were later released.

Beth Holloway Twitty, Holloway's mother, declined to give any more details about Croes but she told Associated Press Television News that she believes more people could be detained in the case.

"This is just the beginning," she said.

Holloway Twitty has been in Aruba (search) since nearly the early days of the search for her daughter.

"I want my daughter and I want her now," she said. "I'm very frustrated. We are in day 18 with no answers."

Paul Reynolds, Holloway's uncle, told FOX News the family remained confident that they would find out what happened.

"The authorities in Aruba and the United States are assuring us every effort will be made to find out what has occurred," Reynolds said Friday.

Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers appeared in court Friday morning. It was not clear where Croes was being held.

Prosecutors asked a judge to rule that there was sufficient cause to continue holding van der Sloot and the Kalpoes. The three were detained June 9. Under the law, a judge must review their case after 10 days, rendering a decision by Sunday.

No one has been charged with a crime in the case.

The judge granted a petition by van der Sloot's father, Paul, to visit his son in jail, but then reversed the decision. Paul van der Sloot is a judge-in-training, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases.

Also Friday, the court barred van der Sloot's lawyer, Antonio Carlo, from visiting the teen, effectively removing him from the case, said Attorney General spokeswoman Mariaine Croes.

As a result, the van der Sloots retained two more attorneys for the defense of their son, Richie Kock and Arjan Debie.

The court granted prosecutors' request to remove Carlo because he had visited one of two former security guards who had been detained and released in the case, authorities said.

Croes said the Dutch teenager has a team of lawyers, so Carlo's removal will not leave van der Sloot without representation. The spokeswoman is not related to Steve Croes.

Carlo did not return calls seeking comment.

The judge was brought in from neighboring Curaçao island, as is typical in high-profile cases.

Holloway disappeared the same day she was to return from a five-day trip with 124 other students celebrating their graduation from high school in Mountain Brook, Ala.

Searches by authorities, volunteer islanders and tourists have come up empty. Authorities refused to say whether they believed Holloway was dead.

On Thursday, however, Police Superintendent Jan van der Straaten told The Associated Press that authorities used a helicopter "to search for possible remains — but found nothing." He declined to say where the search was conducted.

On Wednesday, authorities searched the van der Sloots' one-story, yellow-beige home, where Joran lived in an attached apartment. Agents were seen carrying two white garbage bags filled with items from the house, while authorities towed away a blue sport utility vehicle and a red Jeep from the property in Noord, outside the capital, Oranjestad.

After the approximately four-hour search, Janssen said Paul van der Sloot was not under investigation.

The Kalpoe brothers have told police that they and Joran were with Holloway the night she disappeared and that she and the Dutch youth were kissing in the back seat of their car. The detainees initially said they took Holloway to a northern beach and then dropped her off at her Holiday Inn.

But Antonius "Mickey" John, a former hotel security guard released from custody Sunday, said to reporters that Deepak Kalpoe told him during a chat in jail that he and his brother actually dropped the young van der Sloot and Holloway off together near the Marriott, about 10 blocks north of the Holiday Inn. John said he passed the information on to police.

On Tuesday, FBI agents and officers from the Miami-Dade police department used German Shepherds to search the area, known as Malmok beach, which is a popular nighttime spot for lovers.

Deepak Kalpoe's lawyer would not comment on John's statement Wednesday, but has said his client maintained his innocence.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

So in the above statement I just posted and omitted this:  It appears there was a separation from Deepak to J&S.  Why was this.  Also note it says they were questioned shortly after she went missing but do not state the date.  I am going to believe that is the statement which Beth says was given to her, that she has in her possession, that was probably tossed since there was too much that would lead to charges against JORAN.

Hey... I just say a new name  peeking in

BUMPER   (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/508e1030.gif)

Please jump on it.. and not just (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/8b03b6c8.gif)

Please


OldF

So, I did find about 1 1/2 hours where no one knows ( or I don't know )
where Deepak and Joran were on the Monday night. From 2 -ish to 3 :30 ish.

They were in the vicinity of the Radisson at 2 - ish.
Then, they were at the Sloot compound at 3 : 30 -ish.

I hate to say this in a way

But given the quality of the recent statements (if they are close to factual) it is not a wonder that this investigation is a MESS

I do hope that the senator   ummmm that met with the Aruban delegation,,, ummm B???  has seen these.. and has as MANY questions as i do.

Jmo of course

Shoot

I think I scared Bumper away :cry:
 :oops:

You have a way with words, OF, and it works for me.  Hope it works for Senator B & others.

Congressman Bachus of Vestavia, Alabama.

Kat_Gram
Sorry :oops:  I have not been following that close...
Time lines are fluid.. based upon who / which statements you use
JMO

good work though with what we have to work with :!: [/b]

I am tired tonight, will see all of you later if I can't sleep.  Someone hug Nemo for me, please.  (that's a dog for all you newbies) :wink:

The other thing that I found and the source came from Kock... the call from Joran's cell to Deepak's cell was at 2:35. This is the call where he tells Deepak according to Deepak that he is walking home and he left the girl and his shoes at the beach.

3:15 IM, I'm home.

Tyler
that is the name..

I tried to do an e-mail through his web site once...
something about entering the district I was in caused problems
not sure it got through  because I never  got a resoponse :?

G'nite Lala's  
http://www.cifras.com.br/midis/37733.mid

For Nemo ?  Nemo by Night wish

This might sound stupid but was it a call or a text message.  Deepak says he was out of minutes.

If Senator B doesn't know who he is, then, that's a problem.  Bacchus should be reading here, or have sonmeone doing it for him.  I mean no disrespect, just am stating my opinion.  He was vocal during the onset, and should be following through.

He is up for re-election, of course, and won his primary quite handily but his district should let him know.  A major part of the money he gets I would assume comes from Mountain Brook.  One day I will tell you all a funny story about him.

One was a phone call where they spoke for Deepak says 5 minutes.
Then Deepak says he sent Joran a message MAS System of Setar
to come online when Joran gets home.
Then he got several messages from Joran saying that he was home, etc.

Hmmm.. something stinks!  How could Joran get the call to come home before the Twitty's & the police arrive at the VdS?  The Twitty caravan didn't get to the Police station until around 2:30. They didn't get to Paulus's until 3, then it took him about 20 minutes to answer the door.  They left went to the Wyndham, serached and returned back to the vdS at 5:00.  The Wyndham is not far from the Sloots.  How did it take over 1 1/2 hours? And where were Joran & Deepak that whole time?  Digging Natalee up or burying her?

Tylergal, yes, tell me the story, later....you will remember probably more than I that it's on hold... :wink:

Signing out. G'nite, all.  Prayers for Natalee and her family.

Good Night to all Spunky Monkeys

I updated my Sig Line to include a link to some posting music..

I really do like the 4th song for an upbeat posting sound.. and the rest for obvious reasons
JMO of course

SeeeYaaaByeee

G'nite All

.. I printed up Deepak's statements up today. Just to look at where they could be at certain times that were verified. And to tie them into the phone calls. After Deepak gets home, he waits UP until he hears from Joran, even tho Joran says see you tomorrow and doesn't ask him to come back and get him. Then, he gets the call and he doesn't go and get him. Duh ?  Then he watches TV ( it's the middle of the night, ppl are sleeping ) , ( then he goes to the bathroom for a while ), ( then he is on line off and on ) .
He had time to pick Joran up and take him home.
He also had time to go to where he let Joran and Natalee off.

Time for Mr Sandman.  G'nite.  :D

http://www.aruba.com/pages/regionalmap.htm

Aruba interactive map.

Hi Monkeys :)

Tyler, never fear, my monkey hiney would never leave for good, but some times I need to take a break from posting. I get get pretty angry when certain lines are crossed.

Jac, xxx, and Leslie, thanks for backing me up.

Quick comment on the statements. I have to reread them several times to even begin absorb it all. They do not flow IMHO. I am wondering if some comments or questions were left out. One would think they would delve deeper into the details. On the other hand, inconsistencies do not seem to matter to the people responsible for solving this case.

Joran calls his Dad Paul? Maybe it is a difference in culture. I don't know anyone who did that at Joran's age, unless it was a stepdad.

Also found it interesting that Deepak says "My Mother wanted to hear the story from Joran himself before she would believe our story."

Also noted that Deepak begins by saying Joran concocted the HI story, then within a minute, he admits he concocted the HI story.

I am also going to send him a little background on one of Aruba's most upstanding citizens, Michael Posner, as well.

I remember some were looking into Posner's background.  He was raised around the Chicago area and his family still lives there.  On an internet search, he was sent to Aruba to look after the mafia's gambling interests there.  He bought his first casino on Curacao.  He was involved in prostitution in Chicago.  He did spend time in prison too but I don't know what the exactl conviction was for.

I have a problem with that too.  If Joran is telling the truth and Satish really did go back to get him, why would Deepak expect a call from Joran that he was home?  Wouldn't he have known that when Satish got back?  There is something fishy about that story.  I just wish I knew what it was.  Why did Nadira tell the interviewers that Joran walked home barefooted?

Mikki

MURDER.

No mention anywhere I know of as to what, if any porn was seized when ALE did sweeps of the 3 amigos homes. I would love to know if they found any "homemade" films. I assume the 3 amigos are in the habit of popping in a porn film, and base that on the picture we have of them in the car with apparently a porn film on the dvd, and Deepak stated they popped one in with Natalee.

There is the HI story, and there is the truth. We have yet to hear the truth. If plan B was to tell the truth, why and need for plan A? The truth would mean all the stories jive with each other, and they blatantly do not.

Because they are telling a lie. They can't tell the truth and stay in the clear.

Why tell the "fingering" story? To explain any bodily fluids in the car? To explain and signs of penetration in the event her body happened to be found?

Just to think that that occurred to an intoxicated young lady, makes my blood boil. That alone, which they all admited to, is an offense.

Could the Harley shop be opposite the Automotive Enterprises place and Benson saw something suspicious going on over there ???  Maybe Tyler caught on to something and maybe Natalee was wrapped up in the carpet  after carpet was removed ??

Let's assume D needed to do a quickie recarpeting of his car. Surely there can't be that many places on an Island that size to even buy some suitable for a car and then glue it down. Easy enough for ALE to check into. Why did DK offer that information?

They hopped right on it.

He was hiding from Natalee's family.

And they ALL went, both families on Saturday, June 4, 2005. That was before the guards were arrested.
How many times did Deeepak call the Sloots ( Joran ) to find out of the Dad had any information ? He was not looking for information on Natalee, but rather what information did Paulus have ? ( As in what did the police have ? )

Hi, Shell,
I posted an old article I found today saying Paulus gave the porn DVD Joran showed to the reporter in The Netherlands to Joran.  Said it would help Joran stay awake in class.  Should be on this thread or the last of the one before.

So not only do the parents approve of the son watching porn despite the known consequences, they give him a DVD of it??  At least Paulus did according to that article.

.

Native Lingo said porn was found during the search of Joran's appt.

She was a good source.

Good Evening Monkeys! Just got caught up after server being down due to some very bad weather and open house at sons school. I so appreciate all the work that has been put into the statements.....

Thanks klaas and red!

We have a loss of time with Deepak stories.  
We have him waiting on a call from Joran which he should not wait for.
We have Joran calling him but he did not answer the call.
We have text messages.
We have an 8+ minute phone call that is not explained.
We have one car with tinted windows, one without.
We have a car with chocolate and no evidence Natalee ever existed there.
We have a white car following them and a white car later seen.
We have Joran mentioning emptying a cup.
Deepak mentions throwing cups out.
We have Paulus calling Joran before the Twittys arrive at their house.
We have Joran telling Deepak a story they will tell and stick to it.
Deepak meets with Wever, Joran, et al while gambing.
They leave one gambling joint for another.
Deepak urinates far too much.
There are ants in the car.
The car is seen going toward Montaja (Is this true? I am beginning to question that statement, not because AG said it but her source cold be ?
We have them admitting to putting a porn video in and Natalee in the car.
They were trying to recruit a girl to to with them to meet these girls? why?
We have all "that shit" they are going to find if they find the girl.
We have questions about carpeting in a car.
Was a stereo taken out of one car and put into another?
Chocolate could be coke in the car both come from cacco bean.

Bumper,

Welcome!  Any help is setting the record straight on this is soooo appreciated.  Like Ms Marple said I even have hopes of it snowballing into at least a travel advisory as they deceive with false statistics and claim far fewer crimes than are reported all over their newspapers replete with lurid photos.

Posner was convicted under the RICCO act which is basically racketeering which includes a large number of illegal activities.  He was one of the Chicago mob bosses in its heyday when things like Murder Mansion were taking place, a place the owners were found murdered because the mob wanted their house and executions were carried out there later.  The whole mob was called The Good Ship Lollipop and I forget why right now but it was a crime infested lot and took tremendous effort to clean up.

I will post a little on Posner if I can find it.

Yes, USAToday has done a dreadful disservice to travelers and I have to wonder if they have an angle to this.  Has the Aruban tourist industry bought huge amounts of ads from them or something?

.

That was right, Anna.  Like Dillinger, they could not get him on anything else so they got him on the RICCO act.  There was plenty more, but that was what they could "clearly" prosecute him under, racateering.

.
If the internal links work on this, you should be able to click on Posner's name and go to a site that explains more about his nefarious dealings.  Did he go to Aruba where online porn is legal as is gambling both in the casino and online for he is one of the first to go online and remains one of the largest.


Monday, October 17, 2005
Government has its hand over Michael Posner’s head? Notorious Chicago figure active in Aruba casino
DIARIO Aruba
10/17/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba.

His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution.

He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family.

DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba?

During the [election] campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the [current] government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is [already] apparent.

The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba.

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba.

[translated by Getagrip]


// posted by Getagrip @ 10/17/2005 09:43:00 PM

ILLEGAL

It is illegal to reprint this article or post on the internet, so I recommend you all go here and read it.  

http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

The Posner link did not work so here is where it would have taken you if it had worked:

http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Remember that he actually served eight years of a ten year sentence which is pretty good for mobsters as they always get away with so much.

He has definitely been linked to online gambling and his organization is rated a Class C which is not very good.  Not sure why, maybe they cheat.  And are sanctioned by some horse-racing organizations, too.  Sounds like he still likes to turn a fast and crooked dollar and who is going to challenge him on it? Why did he pick Aruba?  Could it be because it was just so ready to go along with graft and corruption and he knew anything goes there?

.

.
I have never started a thread for anything but think I may try to start one for the murder count in Aruba.  I think this is important for we need this for more than the USAToday man.

We need it for compare and contrast what actually happens versus what is reported for our own Departments of State and Justice and to have to send to our Senators and Congressmen and Condi and everybody else to prove that they are being deceitful about the crime rate on that island.

Travel Industry needs to know that this low murder rate is a joke and it is on THEM!   :evil:

.

If you notice, the RU posters like to bring up Jossy's connections to crime.  It was cigarettes.  Posner makes Jossy look like a case of kindergarten play.

Jossy's family members, and Jossy may not have even been involved, was not involved with the same level of crime as Posner.  Two way different

.
Well, Tyler,

Did we chase everybody away??   :shock:

:oops: I guess so.   :oops:  I have things to do so I will BBL.

It just all screams guilt like wildfire.  This is so frustrating...not one single person involved has a conscience. Not one.

I still am of the opinion that Joran, etc. had a little homegrown porno video business going and the Kalpoes worked for him...I just do not believe they were social friends. It was strictly business between those three. Others are involved as well.

BFN has some new statements posted. I think i will wait for Klaas to bring them over before commenting.

The lies and contradictions continue. Just a ton of garbage being spewed by J2K.

Dompig had one thing right...GUILTY AS HELL.

It's draining and heavily confusing but you're right...GUILTY AS HELL comes through loud and clear.

I've brought over the English version of the 2 new statements that BFN has just posted.  They are in 2 new announcement threads.  Joran 6/14 and Deepak 6/16.

thanks 8)

(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h191/Kat_Gram/map.jpg)
Another map.

PROSECUTE WITHOUT A BODY

ORANJESTAD, ARUBA, 6/30/05

Aruba's attorney general said Thursday she could prosecute a case in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway even if the Alabama teenager's body is not found.

Caren Janssen also said investigators have found no evidence to suggest that the 18-year-old Holloway, who disappeared May 30, was dead.

"There are no traces or facts to come to the conclusion that Natalee is no longer alive," Janssen told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

Janssen declined to reveal Thursday what other evidence investigators might have.

Massive searches by FBI agents, Dutch Marines, Aruban police and thousands of islanders have produced no trace of Holloway, who was celebrating her graduation from high school in Mountain Brook, Ala., when she disappeared.

...Holloway's stepfather, George "Jug" Twitty, said the family was not surprised by Janssen's comments and was not losing hope the truth would be found.

"We may have no physical evidence, but there is a lot of other evidence of what may have happened in this case," Twitty told the AP.

Janssen, who has been tightlipped during the investigation, said she had decided to speak out because "there has been so much misinformation in the American press."

"I'm the lead prosecutor and I want to show that we are not a bunch of cowboys here," she said.

Janssen declined to be more specific about what she believed had been reported inaccurately.

Paul van der Sloot, an island judicial official, was arrested June 23 but released a few days later when a judge ruled there was not enough evidence to hold him.

Janssen said the elder van der Sloot gave his son and the Kalpoe brothers legal advice, telling them that "without a body there is no case."

"He confirmed to me that he told them that a few days after she disappeared," Janssen told the AP.

Janssen also alleged Paul van der Sloot, a 52-year-old judge in training in Aruba, obstructed authorities' investigation by asking one of his son's friends, who had been interrogated, what he told police.

But Janssen said Paul van der Sloot was detained for being a suspect in the disappearance, not for obstructing the investigation.

Janssen decided to give this information because she's concerned about the impression the American media are giving the rest of the world about Aruba.

I meant to add - there is a SATISH June 11th statement posted also which is farely long.  This is in a thread in the forum, not the FP yet.  I'm going to read it now.

When we had arrived at the "lighthouse" my brother asked Joran if the girl wanted to see the "lighthouse". Joran then said that he didn't think she would want to see it because she had fallen asleep. At that moment I turned around and saw that the girl was lying on Joran's lap and that she was sleeping. Joran had awakened the girl. Joran then told my brother that he didn't think that the girl would want to see the "lighthouse". The girl had been awake then. Joran then asked the girl if she was staying in the Holiday Inn hotel. The girl answered that she was staying at the Holiday Inn hotel. Joran then said to my brother that he should drive to the Holiday Inn hotel to drop off the girl. My brother then drove in the direction of the Holiday Inn hotel. To your question whether the girl had said something after she had woken up I have to tell you that I did not pay attention. On the way to the Holiday Inn Hotel Joran told my brother to turn right at some point. At Joran's request my brother turned right and drove into the street just north of the Marriot Hotel. My brother continued driving up the street until Joran said that he should stop the car. My brother then brought the car to a full stop. My brother asked Joran how he was going to get home. Joran answered that he would find a way to get home. My brother asked Joran if he was sure he would find another way to get home. Joran said that he was sure that he would find a way to get home. At that moment it was approximately 01.45 hours on May 30th 2005. The girl and Joran then got out of the car. Joran and the girl walked towards the beach. Joran and the girl had put their arms around each other while they walked. To your question whether the girl had been drunk and how the girl was walking I can say the following. The girl was at that time well with it and was walking fine too. After we had driven out of this street I asked my brother to slow down and I had thrown the "Yard' cup out of the car on the right side of the road. After that we drove towards our house. To your question as to what direction we had taken when we drove home I have the answer you the following. I cannot remember for sure, but I think we took the road through Tanki Leendert to get home.

After finishing reading the latest posting of Deepak's statement, I found myself questioning the signifigance of the portion in which he describes the sound system work done on his car by "Automotive Enterprises", and how it relates to the police van tapes.

Knowing we have some very intelligent and insighful members on this board, anyone care to enlighten me on their theories?  ;)

I say there are two different cars involved and he had his stereo system moved from one car to another, from the car with tinted windows to one without tinted windows, and the one with tinted windows is the one with blood and the one without tinted windows is the one with chocolate.

TURN TO FOX.

Hi Strike. San and Blah and others had some very informed and interesting opinions on just this topic about 10 pages back. Mostly that it was odd that Deepak proferred the info unsolicited...and that the work he mentions does match up with a typical sound system installation.

Hey Tyler!!  ;)

So, you're saying that they had access to (2) identical vehicles with & without tinted windows?

Was something on Fox?

Brits "disrupted" a terror plot to blow up 20 planes.

WOW!!  Thanks for the heads up Tyler!

Still reading back but I wanted to add my 2 cents re the car....
VIN stickers can be found all over the car but not on the parts the we are talking about (carpet, headliner, seats) those parts can be changed out without showing a VIN sticker. Just an example: right now we have a Honda Odyssey van and the captain seat behind the driver seat had been replaced when we bought it at auction. the seat was a different shade of gray, had a different pattern and stiching which made it very difficult for us to find a seat to replace it that would match. even seat covers of the same color would have different stiching or pattern.
What was said earlier about the carpet molding to the car and not needing glue is correct. Carpet and headliner are time consuming to replace but are not difficult. Same with seats as long as they match up. We found out that Honda can have at least 3 different patterns/shades/stiching for one car. Now this may not be true of a Honda accord in the same year model of Deepaks (which I dont think we know). I guess I am wondering if Automotives Enterprises or some other place on Aruba would have this kind of stuff available without having to order it from somewhere off the island?
just what I know from my experiance.

Carried on small WMD in luggage, all planes to USA from Great Britain.

It has been in the planning for 8-9 months.

Hey Spook!!  ;)

You're absolutely right about what you stated above.  I would add, however, that although those parts you described aren't bundled into the VIN, they are all catalogues as part of the original vehicle when it was manufactured.  My understanding is that one could determine that certain parts of the vehicle were changed out (from it's original condition) by way of upgrades and such...

I'm not sold on the "multiple, identical vehicle" theory.  I'm just curious as to what the conenction was/is regarding the "Automotive Enterprises" as it pertains to the statement and the police van tape transcripts...

Your thoughts?

at the very least I think the portions of the car that were sent to Holland were NOT from Deepaks car (the car that Natalee was in that night).
Were they changed out? or did Aruba just send some other car parts to NL? either way, they were not the parts that were in that car that night.
the real parts should contain the spilled Cherry Coke(that Depak talks about) and Natalees hair fibers. the NL came back with Chocolat and cleaning fluid an no Natalee fibers.....two completly dif. car parts imo

DID THEY EVER SAY THEY ALL HAD SEX WITH NATALEE ? WHERE ARE THOSE STATEMENTS?

8/31/05
 GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live in Aruba. And the latest in the Natalee Holloway missing girl case.

Today, D-Day, Joran Van Der Sloot, the chief suspect in the case, a judge`s son, back in court along with his running buddies, the Kalpoe brothers. Tonight from Aruba, "Diario" reporter Giovani lane. In West Tampa, Florida, Joe Episcopo. Also with us, CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti and Renee Rockwell joining us out of Atlanta, defense attorney.

To Susan Candiotti, bring us up-to-date, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, a busy day in court today. In fact, they were in there practically the entire day. And this day, Joran, along with the Kalpoe brothers, were questioned together by the judge.

The judge trying to decide whether Joran can be held beyond that 120- day limit. The judge must decide by September the 4th whether the prosecutors have enough, quote, unquote, "new evidence" to keep him behind bars while the investigation continues.

Now, during their presentation, prosecutors presented about 300 pages of evidence. Key among them, statements from Joran, as well as the Kalpoe brothers, that they allegedly had sex with Natalee Holloway.

And they also entered into evidence that gardener`s statement -- this is the man who said that he saw the three of them in a car parked by the pond the night that Natalee disappeared, but at a time that would call into question where they were when they said they were at that particular hour of the night.

And then, Nancy, something else was introduced into evidence, that the defense attorneys claim is not new, has been in the file for two months, and they can`t understand what this has to do with Natalee`s disappearance. And I`m a little uncertain about that, as well.

It involves another young man who law enforcement tells me has nothing to do with Natalee`s disappearance, who took some photographs of a 14-year- old girl, described as of a provocative nature, while Joran supposedly watched, as well as Deepak and a couple other young girls. Again, I`m not clear what this has to do with the case directly.

GRACE: OK, I think I may know. Susan, does this guy, this fourth suspect, does he live anywhere near Joran Van Der Sloot, or did they know each other before this?

CANDIOTTI: He`s described as Joran`s best friend, according to the defense attorney.

GRACE: OK, all right. I think I may have cracked the mystery.

To Joe Episcopo, this guy, FEZ (ph), is charged with taking photos of a 14-year-old girl. Hello, she`s got on a bikini. She`s not nude, all right, although they`re saying the photos are provocative. Clearly, he knows something about the case. So they arrest him on these photos and squeeze him to tell the truth?

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Clearly, he knows something about the case because of that? I doubt it.

GRACE: I`m asking you to divine why this guy is arrested and in the files is connected to this case. Let`s put on our thinking cap.

EPISCOPO: Yes. I`ll tell you why. They`re trumped-up charges because they can`t prove the primary case. They`re arresting people on suspicions because they can`t plea bargain, they can`t grant immunity. They`re not going to solve this case they way they`re doing it.

GRACE: OK, that helps.

Let`s go to Renee Rockwell. Got a theory?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the only thing that I have is maybe Joran and the Kalpoe brothers have been involved with some other young girls, doing other things, and maybe they`re just afraid that this guy`s going to come forward and talk about it, trying to get himself or explain himself out of these pictures of these young girls. Only thing I can think of.

GRACE: And, thereby, turn into a witness, not necessarily a suspect, in the Natalee Holloway case.

Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT, FATHER OF JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: He wants to go home. He feels he hasn`t done anything wrong. He is maintaining his innocence.

And, you know, he has been deprived of his freedom for almost three months. He misses his home, his parents. And he want to go home. So that this, I believe, you know, what broke him down a little bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot shed a tear, said he wants to go home? I sent this to his family last night. Now this one`s for you, Joran Van Der Sloot. You`re crying? What do you think Natalee`s family has been through?

Renee, not that it`s the first time I`ve been burned in effigy at a courthouse before, but take a look at this.

Got that video? There you go. Ouch!

ROCKWELL: Nancy, is there any such thing as bad publicity?

GRACE: Well, I don`t know about that, but, you know, the truth hurts. And instead of holding up posters about me and CNN, you`d think they`d be trying to find Natalee Holloway and trying to find the truth of this case.

ROCKWELL: Is this to me?

GRACE: Yes.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, let`s talk about Aruba just a little bit. We know a couple of things. They don`t have juries. They don`t have the death penalty. Like Episcopo said, they don`t have deals, no immunity.

What you have a situation is where you`re going to have a panel of judges looking at everything that`s been gathered up. They can look at the fact that they`ve changed their story so many times. They can look at the fact that maybe he`s going to plead silence right now and not explain it, but then compare other stories that he`s contradicted himself.

I know one thing, that Deepak`s attorney has said that there`s no new evidence against Deepak. Therefore, he should be released, like he was released last time. But then you have Satish`s attorney, who said that something Satish said has contradicted statements that Joran and Deepak have said. So, therefore, they`re all back in court trying to straighten the story out. Just doesn`t look good.

GRACE: To Giovani Lane with "Diario" newspaper. Giovani, she`s right. There was another conflict in the three statements today between the Kalpoes and Joran Van Der Sloot. The judge brought them back in to ask them about it.

Do we know what the conflict was, Giovani?

GIOVANI LANE, "DIARIO" REPORTER: Well, the lawyers didn`t say anything about it. Only thing I know is that Zeppenveldt, one of Joran`s lawyers -- I mean Satish`s lawyer, sorry -- he explained that the police had probably forgotten that Joran must not have been taken away from the court.

So, because at the last part of the case was that the three guys would have been confronted with each other. So, at first they were questioning them individually.

And the last part of the whole day was going to be that all were going to be together in court. And the police had to go back and get Joran and bring him back and his lawyers. That`s why his lawyers came back.

One thing Zeppenveldt said that was a little -- I noticed, he said that the girl from the picture had said that Satish was not there during this shoot, you know, was not on the picture, was not one of the guys.

But he did not say if one of the other guys was mentioned by the girl. And that`s one thing we want to try to find out.

GRACE: Quick break, everybody.

Very quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin."

FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for John Patrick Addis, wanted in connection with the `95 kidnap and murder of Joanne Albanese, 39, in Nevada.

Addis, 54, 6`1", 190 pounds, light brown hair, blue-green eyes. If you have any info on John Patrick Addis, call the FBI, 702-385-1281.

Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of an accused wife accused of killing her husband, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Please stay with us as we remember Sergeant Damion Campbell, 23, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help in our own way, solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at Eric Alexander, just 24 years old, in a car with his girlfriend, January 2004, Richmond, Virginia.

Stopped at an intersection, driver in front gets out and shoots. Police still have not found Eric`s killer. If you have information on Eric Alexander, call the Carole Sund Carrington Foundation toll free, 888-813- 8389. Help us.

Very quickly, back to Giovani Lane with Diario. Giovani, how is Jossy Mansur?

LANE: Well, he told me specifically to say hi to Nancy for him, and he says he`s going to be on tomorrow for sure. He`s kind of a little tired. He`s busy with other stuff, you know, also the case in court and his job. He has to handle certain things, but he`s going to be tomorrow on your show.

GRACE: OK. Tell Jossy, we want to see him -- you`re great -- but we want to see Jossy in the flesh.

Very quickly to Susan Candiotti with CNN correspondent on the case from the beginning. Susan, please tell me I`m wrong about this -- I`ve gotten information from a source -- but that the new Dutch interrogators, the new technique is to be nice to the Kalpoes and Joran Van Der Sloot. That`s the secret weapon?

CANDIOTTI: Well, that`s possible. We don`t really know. This is simply according to a couple of the people who have been picked up and/or re-interviewed by these people. For example, Steven Croes, the deejay, told us that, this time when he was interviewed by the interrogators, they were, in his words, much nicer to him than they were the last time.

Also, we heard that, this time, when the Kalpoe brothers were re- arrested just last Friday, that, instead of being rousted from their sleep and dragged off to jail, this time, they were allowed to get dressed, et cetera, et cetera, before they left.

You know, Nancy, I don`t know what the new strategy is, but it`s an observation, anyway.

GRACE: And very quickly, Susan, when do with we get a ruling on whether Van Der Sloot can be kept longer?

CANDIOTTI: You would think it would have to come by Friday at the latest, because the clock`s ticking.

GRACE: OK, thank you, friend. Susan Candiotti joining us.

I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But my biggest thank you, to you, for being with us, inviting us into your home.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

 :shock:
dang I was watching General Hospital.
I'll go check now

I will ask tomorrow but I am pretty sure that on a Honda if a carpet, headliner, or seat were to be changed out (if properly done) you would not be able to tell by VIN or otherwise) Honda does put VIN stickers on each part of the car as in hood trunk fenders bumpers doors....but I dont think the individual interior parts. but will ask tomorrow.

Well, if anyone wouild be able to find out, it'd be you.  You're the expert...;)

Those planes would have been planes headed to USA.  FBI has been informed and will be making a statement soon.

Thanks Tyler, I'm going to watch Fox for a few, then bed.

not at all an expert but lucky to be at a job where I can ask these particular questions :wink:
how you doin'?

thanks Tyler. I'm sure you and I will be swapping some emails tomorrow :wink:

I'm doin' pretty good!  Still trying to get over this darn cold, but otherwise...ok?  Thanks for asking!  ;)

"bring down aircraft thu MID FLIGHT EXPLOSIONS"!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
Way to go Brit police and all involved in catching this

I think you are correct, Spooky.  I was just trying to state why it would be difficult to just send a totally different car.  All the interior is prolly considered trim and would not have VIN numbers.  Once I was shocked to learn an inside door handle on a car is "trim" and not under warranty even if it falls off in your hand.  

VIN number is clearly visible through front windshield.  Too many FBI strolling around to change entire car even if ALE would go along with it.  And would possibly attract attention to try to change all records all the way back for tags, mortgage on the car or whatever you call payments, things like that.  I think they changed it out.  

As for no trace of Natalee being found, I think they did very superficial check and there would be nothing on the new interior.  Could have just come from another car of same make/model as have read it was very common on the island, did not have to be brand new stuff.

Enterprise Automotives seems connected to fake flat tire of some sort, not sure what that is all about.  Think we need another piece of the puzzle.

Going to check Fox for updates. . . . . .

absolutely.

aww, I hope you feel better soon hon! :)