Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

What exact "cops gone wrong" theory are you talking about?  That the cops are covering this up or helped to cover it up in the beginning or that Joran is not involved at all, left her at beach and this is where cops come in?

Sorry guys we get hate mail if the archived threads are 60,70, 80 pages long. Someone reads those  :shock:

I am glad I am there as they are written.

I think they are all still stuck in the other thread refreshing!!!   :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Is it just me....or did Steve Croes come across very badly tonight when questioned by Greta?  

Why would someone who says he doesn't know these three.....go to the the police and confirm their alibi?  

Doesn't make any sense....

Isn't Lorenzo too old to have been sired by PVDS based upon when the VDS family migrated to Aruba?

It's not just you.  He came across very badly and very unbelievable.

Dragonfly... Beach Patrol=Polis... Would you not agree that there are "Bad Cops" everywhere?  How far-fetched is this theory... Baby leaves NH on the beach(in whatever state) they offer her a ride. It turns out to be the ride to no return. Big Bucks for the Bad Boys that deliver the goods. They have the perfect fall guy, cause they have been watching from afar.

OK, I'll work on a list of the characters. I'll even include M Croes (oh, please just hit me upside the head with a brick, right now)

I've never heard so much doublespeak in my life. This case is like an Elmore Leonard novel.

I don't think it will matter who says what at this point. 'Friends of the program' have this covered and are continueing to sweep it under the rug...

May NH RIP and all those involved die a long, slow, painful and lonely death.....

Well, I guess I've just not been able to buy into anything like that because of the lies told by the 3 in the beginning.  As Mike so loudly pointed out earlier, there was no reason to create a cover story before Nat's parents arrived because if they weren't involved in a crime with her they would not have yet known she was missing.

1.  About the earliest announcement of "confession" and "body found" -- at that time, a family member of Natalee's in AL posted on one of the message boards that it was true and that her father was on his way at that moment to ID Natalee.  Thus, I *believed* and have been left wondering ever since.

2.  "Change of attitude" in family tonight - maybe they finally got to meet with the prosecution team for the first time today, after Beth saying yesterday that was her #1 "TO DO" for today?

3.  Lorenzo - heh heh - yes, he would've had to have been born in NL 26-27 years ago, since that's where Paulus was.  Can't see any connections from Paulus to Aruba that long ago.  Coincidence that Lorenzo and his mom and late stepfather now live/lived in Aruba?  Too much for me.

4.  If sold into slavery, how do they keep up a threat of death to Natalee on a 24/7 basis?  Doesn't make sense.

Have you guys been seeing where his release is explained by saying he falsely corroborated their alibi when he didn't know their whereabouts...and people just accept this?

Where is the outrage?

Monkeys... why is it so hard to believe that Stevie was in ear-shot of Deepaks cellphone conversation... when he was telling some idjit on the other end... his dumbass story? Stevie was just being a solid citizen. :shock:

lets ad s sipping a mickey, sightings at mickee dees, and mickey john.....no wonder we are perplexed

hmmm. Previously from Riehlworld. "failed judge, declining prospects for employment, potential judgeship having been de-railed prior to the Natalee Holloway case based upon performance evaluations."

Now all of a sudden he's the sharpest legal mind since Clarence Darrow. (No pun intended)  :lol:

Good night all

LOL, Indeed it is!

two max arends spelled one with s / one with a z :roll:
two lighthouses///
twin girls on MB trip related to NH

Yes, but maybe he was there on business??

I heard Lorenzo was 5-6 years older then Joran. Just because PVDS didn't live in Aruba around that time, didn't mean he didn't visit Aruba and have an affair or vice versa with Lorenzo's Mom.

But the story is that he heard this conversation, walked up (because he wanted to meet Deepak...lol) and says "Hey, I saw this girl at the HI that night when you dropped her off.  She was falling down and that security guard come up and helped her."  And he only does this so he can start up a conversation with Deepak because he "wanted to meet him".  Then, he hears about the case on TV and Deepak's arrest and decides to go tell the cops the same story he made up to meet Deepak in the first place?  Makes no sense at all.

Great owl

Can you tell us more about this code thing?

-Woody

Itawamba... explain this death threat 24/7. If the girl is on another island... who needs a death threat? Again... take this FWIW... the attorney for MJ stated on FOx that she thought the girl was in the sex trade system. Kind of a wierd thing for someone of her stature to say.

nice picture woody!

thx :D

I have never shot holes in this lorenzo thing til now.

I am going to be a realist, a dad, Previous wife, (no illlegit kids), there is no way that you live on the same ISLAND with mother of illigit kid and illigit kid by choice, maybe by court order but not by choice. <<JOKE>>

From another aruban source, you almost can't go to the grocery store, mcd's or any shop and not see someone you know. Hiding the illegit kid impossible IMO Keeping MAMA VDS away from kids MOM impossible.

I agree....makes no sense.

This has been concluded...but I'm not so sure the residency issue precludes paternity as I believe the Dutch travel back & forth a lot between NL and ABC's for vacations, visits, etc.

FOM, friend of mickeys, friend of monkeys, yep, confusing!!!   :lol:  :lol:

just to correct, the twins on the trip were boys!!

Well, dragonfly, The story I heard is that he was a friend of Deepaks... prior. Now, we hear this is not the case. I have never heard your version. I can personally vouch for the fact that the press... screws things up.

I guesss...but weirder things do happen.

But, maybe Mama knows about this child but it is agreed that there not be much conctact and it will not be thrown in Mama's face?

no shit!

This came from the reporter from Aruba that had an interview with him.  Said he was brought from his jail cell to her and this is what he told her.

Haha!  All day long I've been wanting to say that some mighty fine avatars have appeared here lately.  Love all these monkeys!

:: OT, I know, but I couldn't resist any longer ::

did anyone else find it strange that julia renfro was almost praising steve croes? like sickly gushing over him , also, i know i read here somewhere a meeting with the headmaster, joran and jorans dad that said that he came in late that morning.

if joran was in school and on time then why wont his father confirm whether or not he was in school and on time?

Do we have an article that he was really questioned or transcript?

CUZ HE IS ONE CRAZY GUY!!??

Well for sure, dragonfly... Stevie was {{edit}}. Spent some time in jail contemplating that personality trait.

[

CUZ HE IS ONE CRAZY GUY!!??[/quote]  


haha

Julia Renfro, that was the one that did the interview with him and gave his version to Greta tonight when Greta started asking all the questions about him being nuts for going to the police with a fake alibi for someone he didn't even know.  Julia's response was the story about him wanting to meet Deepak and used "seeing her at HI falling down" as an "in" to a conversation with him.

FOM.....had Mickey told you prior to today that 'the family' was involved in cooking up the story?  

I thought he came across tonight pretty believable and understandly a little angry about the morning he was arrested.

That was an ambush interview...hard to look good in that situation.
    What I thought was horrible was her comment that, "....and I'll let you go".  Like she had the right to detain him!  She said it a couple of times.  She really was way off base, I would have run over her foot.

I would have to agree with you on the "full of ----" theory!!!   :lol:

Aruban District Attorney(or equivelent) should have immediately placed Cheif of Polis on temporary paid leave and temporaraly relieved of duty because of the known close friendship of  the VDS's and himself. This didn't happen. VDS's were allowed 9 to 10 days to clean things up while Aruban LE started their Dog and Pony Show.

Somehow, I don't think Stevie is the type that thinks Deepak is worth all the trouble. Unless Deepak is some funky type of Island regulator... uh No.

Any word on how the Texas search team is progressing.  Is the goverment still telling them where they can't search?

In 1978, Paulus was a few years out of the University of Tilburg law school and was evidently a practicing attorney and somewhat of a civic activist.  Picturing a hippie lawyer, if you will.

Part of that time he was still in Tilburg, then moved to nearby Arnehm.  I would guess he was in Arnehm in 1978, when Lorenzo would have been born.  It is "Van Rijn" country, FWIW - of the Rhine River - and Rembrandt country.  If Lorenzo's mother went on to marry a Van Rijn, it seems like it would have been here rather than in Aruba.

It wasn't until 1991 that Paulus's attention seemed to have landed on Aruba.  Also, during all that time, 1973-1993, he was still fighting authorities in his hometown of Boxtel, so must have still been spending some time there, possibly with his family who had the "historical and scenic" estate there.  

I interpret that to mean there is family money, but it could also mean they are "land-rich" and "cash-poor," as I said before.

Also, it is my impression that Paulus has been a civil attorney all along--I don't believe he is all that well-versed in criminal cases.  Could be wrong.

Well....I have to give you that LouLou.... :D

Beginning to sound more and more like they took her back to the house (from Carlos N Charlies) .. (instead of going to any lighthouse or any beach).. (( Mom was away in Netherlands ))..

+Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish
+Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping
+as well as being an accessory to murder.
+The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot the father of 17-year-old Joran
+was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated
+murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.
+Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.

Kids went to Joran's house (apartment separate from parent's main house) "to get high."  Natalee stopped breathing.. the kids freaked and woke up the father in the main house.  Daddy VDS's complicity by providing place for the crime and then daddy also acted to dispose of the body;  then cook up a story (away from the house).  There has never been any "scent" picked up at the lighthouse nor the beach area around the Marriott neither the Holiday Inn..  The body typically has be somewhere not too far from Joran's house..

>FROM:  http://www.riehlworldview.com/
>
>Over at Scared Monkeys, frequent commenter Aruba Girl claims
>to have info that someone saw the Kalpoe brothers on the road
>at 2 AM the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance -
>presumably driving in an area associated with this mystery.
>
>>Can I ask a question. If somebody told me that they saw the
>>brothers doing something suspicious but not illegal in and of
>>itself, should I tell the cops? Even though a month has passed.
>>I want to emphasize that I did not see it, but it was told to me.
>>I assumed that this person told the cops, but turns out that that
>>didn't happen.
>>
>>Somebody saw the car of the brothers (the person is very
>>familiar with the car, sees it almost daily, saw the brothers on
>>the road at two am, going TO the direction of Montanja. I'm
>>going to call my cousin and let her know. She's a cop. And no,
>>that's not the reason why I'm so gung-ho about defending the
>>cops from corruption accusations. We're not that close.
>
>That's all the more interesting in light of information I've long
>had and previously passed along that they were also seen giving
>their car a thorough cleaning in an unusual spot after their initial
>release.



-

Well, I didn't hear the "client" comment, but several on hear also heard him to say that he didn't know Deepak, they weren't friends, but mentioned something about him being a "client".  I didn't hear it, but some mentioned it earlier.

no.  i only talked to him once or twice and i was more worried about him than to want to press him for info really.  i believe him...i think that he has since his released realized the full gravity of the situation. He could have spemt the rest of his life in jail...he feels sterotyped as black scapegoat and does hope that the dutch kid will just tell the truth...so everyone can have peace of mind.

dragonfly... I think I read that he said he was a "client" of the internet cafe.

That would be twin boys, cousins!

Um, why is my avatar so frickin' huge?  :roll:

Okay...gotcha!!

I swear I'm not doing this on purpose!

and I am struggling that a lawyer AND a civil servant could get away with the perfect cover-up. Obviously... his superiors were under-estimating Pop's.

In my new theory Greta wears long sleeve shirts as a sign to the Monkeys.

Sorry I think that was off topic and on that note I am off to bed.

If you throw monkey poop, don't forget to clean it up. No one likes a dirty monkey cage some of us eat in here.

Steve had failed to show up the previous evening for an interview for her show so she went to his house. I think she may have been a little put out with him for being a no show. Anyone see the video yet of Greta getting KO'd by the monkey next door to the VDS home?

I don't know, but it's freaking me out!!!   :shock:

ROFLOL!!!!!!!!! hey Juvenal!! :lol: I think absolut is trying to make site better?? :o

Thanks FOM for the reply and I think sadly he was sterotyped as a scapegoat.  I'm glad he was able to be released.

Haven't watched it.  Is it pretty funny stuff?

too much avatar viagra

John Kerry's head has been known to do that.

 :wink:
nite

I turned off remote avatars so only ones uploaded here will work until I figure out what that mess was.

I think his involvment warrants ambush interview!

Swear to God, this is the first image that was small enough to be allowed on here!

Ha!

I'm off to bed guys.  Can you please solve this thing and find out where Natalee is before I get up tomorrow?

I just fell off my chair!!!  LMAO

 :shock:

Can you ask Greta to wear some short sleeve shirts? :)

The "sex slave trade" is the equivalent of the "bogeyman" or the SODDI defense - some other dude did it.  "Some big dark mysterious thing happened" of which we have no direct evidence.

(Remember, I do believe it's possible that Natalee is alive and being held against her will in an aborted ransom kidnapping attempt which does or does not involve Joran, but most likely does--among other things I think possible.)

She doesn't listen to me..... :wink:

but you are wonderwoman?  8)

you don't want remote avatars anyway.  If you do the browser has got to go off into 20 different hosting sites every time the user refreshes.  Slows things down terribly.

Well, it's not Jay Leno quality but I got a small chuckle out of it. :lol:

She did unbutton that top button tonight on her shirt like someone suggested last night that she do.....maybe she's reading the posts here??

Why are Greta's longsleeve shirts a message to the monkeys?

We've already discussed in here her aversion to the sun.

Doh!  I just found a rebuttal avatar, and it's even appropriate for the site... :D

{{edit: Sorry, this is not a DISS the President Forum!}}

I offered her the costume, but she said it was too big...WTH does that mean.....jeez..... :P

There is such a thing as a Boogey Man. Richard Ramirez comes to mind.

Detective, that was hilarious!!!!  I am laughing my a-- off!!!!!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Y'alls Psychic Detective....that's too funny.

One word...boobies.

Sorry. Just wanted an excuse to say "boobies."

Don't be hatin on George.

its aruba--send her a tank top!!!

Detective..Nice. That was a quick comeback. Funny too.

ROFLMAO - and waking up my household!
That wuz funny, YPD - Thanks!

WICKED! :lol:

Did anyone ever answer this question, referring to SC?:
"Aren't there pictures of this guy with the people he says he doesn't know all over those myspace and tickle sites? "

Working on the Cast of Characters.
Won't have it done for hours.
Do we need t include stuff like Panty Boy?

Here's what I've got. Tell who I'm missing.

Natalee Holloway
Beth Twitty
Jug Twitty
Dave Holloway
Dave's wife
----------
Joran
PVdS
AVds
VVds
Deepak
Satish
----------
Steven Croes
M Croes
Lorenzo
Police Commissioner
---------
Mickey J
Other Guard
-------------
Max Arends
Max Arendz
2 twin boys (Nat's cousins) from MB
----------
other MB kids
alana
edward kissel
byrd
-----------
all lawyers
all media
Julia Renfro
crazy Mansur
-----------
Search Team members

he doesn't know mike!!!
I'm goin to bed.  nite all

Okay, going to bed in a minute (the huge avatar kept me going for a minute).  Anyway, Mike, I don't remember if there were pictures of him with the Kalpoes.  I really don't remember that.  I remember seeing a page of pictures and he was in one, but not with the Kalpoes.

Me too. Night FOM!!!

Night FOM!

GODFATHER? PAPITO??

THanks!  I've been wondering the same but don't know how to find the picture(s)!

Dave's wife is Robin Holloway.



The other guard is Abraham Jones.

LOL.  Uhmmmmm....go back through pages and pages of endless information until you find the link that led to that page of pictures...not something I would want to do.   :shock:

Dogs been to VDS residence?

Yes.  When they searched the house.

Do they use luminol testing in Aruba?

Well, as per usual, by the time I ketchup, everbody goes to bed! :cry:
Guess that why I ketchup!  Sotaspeak!  :shock:

Thanks all for the PMs and additional names.
Gonna log out and work on this.

Gonna quit while I'm ahead!LOL! Night all!
All boffa y'all!  Sotaspeak!lol!

Good night, everybody. Sorry about the huge freakin' avatar.

I had doctor this one significantly to get the avatar thingy to accept it.

Good night.

Don't ask Greta to wear short-sleeved shirts.  The sun can be brutal, and long sleeve cotton shirts are better for Gringo skin.

Night all....

Yup, ya have to include "Panty Boy"!  I mean, c'mon, looking back that's gotta be the most ridiculous point in this investigation!  Oh, BTW, don't include Geraldo in "all media", this guy deserves his own attention!

I just saw this on Fox...WTH! I always have heard he knew Deepak from the Internet Cafe, now he claims he doesn't know ANY of these guys, he just decided to pop into the police station and lie and say he saw Natalee stumble as she was dropped off at the Holiday Inn?

This is a serious question....is this guy loopy? His mother was so distraught over his incarceration. She said she is sick with cancer in Curacao and refused her treatments because she wanted to go to Aruba to check on Steve.

Is it true he does not know any of the 3, or is he now just jerking the press around? He is much too smug about this whole thing. Very confusing, just makes this case more bizarre.

You remember the guy who found the floral panties? "Panty guy"? It seems like a few locals might be trying to get 15 minutes from this case, just for kicks. IMO that is called obstruction of justice. jeez. This is just bizarre. Anyone have any insight on this??

(edited for typo)

Good o Steve needs to be assigned about 500 hours of community service for his actions.

Have heard several takes on many Aruban legal issues, lots of conflicting inf - and this from gov't sources. Obstruction of justice is not clearly defined offense? For SC it seems a laughing matter.

The  exclusion for relatives of first degree is a bizarre free ticket to perjure. Do they expect brother to lie for brother and father for son?

On the other hand the method of evidence compilation with periodic judicial review seems sensible, the sequestering of evidence may be a safety against the too ready acceptance of a first theory by a homogenous and like minded society, that would be Dutch society during the development of their no doubt noble body of law.

For surely, fairness and justice is the goal for all civilized societies. Yes?

I can only assume that if the dogs didn't get triggered
there, why would they use luminol? I think LE would have
to have a heck of a strong reason to spray the place.

Yikes.  It is 2:05 a.m., Alabama time and I just finished reading the last board.  Already eight pages behind.  Got to go to bed, but am curious about these pics (posted earlier):

This is Locoman's tickle.com site (aka Freddy).  Check his second album, Freddy and Friends.

Who is the blondish, blue/green=eyed fellow in these two pictures?  The one wearing the while Latcoste shirt; love that little green alligator.  He looks older than most of Joran's cronies.

http://photo.tickle.com/image/2/4/6/P7/2462782P7016875423.jpg
? in Cap.
(Lorenzo?) making scary face (on left)

http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?albumid=KKtp.FfMPDg-WBVi
Look at the one with Freddy, blue shirt of left
Lorenzo(?) in middle
Joran on right.

Anybody recognize him from anywhere else?  Someone tried to tell me it was Joran's friend Jaime, but its not the same as Jaime.  Jamie much darker, more brunette, younger.  

@V@, I'm still curious about that left-hander!

 :D

Nite.

I noticed on the last thread, some were asking about the refinery.

Here's a picture I took about 4 years ago I thought would interest those unfamiliar with the island:

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/41/4414/640/Refined%20Sunset.jpg


Good night everyone...see you tomorrow...I mean later...same bat time...same bat channel...

OK, one more thing and then I'm hitting the sack...I'm getting delirious...

On the last thread, someone asked why Deepak would spill his guts to an unknown jail mate.

If my memory serves correct from Greta's interview tonight with Mickey John...Deepak thought Mickey was Jamaican, and knowing that the framed security guard was from Grenada, he thought he was just another prisoner, and wasn't guarded with his secrets.  Mickey played coy, knowing his cover was kept, and got Deepak to open up just enough.

Mickey is one smart cookie :wink:  I only wish he had asked more questions...so far..I like him best of all the characters in this drama..if only it were not real life :cry:

Does the LE know Mickey got some info from {{edited out namecalling}}?  If so, it'd be nice to see them stick an undercover agent in the cell next to him and pose as an inmate?  Then again, i guess this leads to whether or not this type of thing is legal???

I believe Aruban LE has gotten all the info they will from the 3 remaining in custody. As far as any physical evidence, i doubt they have any. Record of a phone call and text message? they probably have that. these 3 were schooled for days after the fact and clean-up as to what they could get by with saying. Number of succesful murder convictions in Aruba without a body=0
In the Netherlands since WWII=1

I have learn alot from this site, the news and others.  At least, in our Justice system not that it is always fair that NH's family would be aware what is going on in this bizarre case instead of weeks of waiting for the next set of lies.

It was interesting tonight to hear Greta's interview with Mickey John. I wonder how this new information will bring PVDS back into view as  a collabrator for sending people in circles. Mickey John said it was a plot the whole affair with NH.  :twisted:  Doesn't look good at all even for the Police chief.  :evil: Mickey John said, " they all should be fired from their jobs."  :x I would love to be a fly on the wall  8)  when this new technology equipment comes in to view for the tapes of testimony from 3 thugs to see if there was any truth being told. I am sure it is all lies. To me, I also think it is very cruel to do something like that to a grieving family. Just no heart at all :!:  Mr.  PVDS is a very shallow man in my opinion, including his son, and so call friends. I believe it is game, so they will walk as there will be no truth to anything, except what Mickey John is telling. Although, I don't think they  :arrow:  "the criminals thought this information would ever be expose of what circle of lies, and who was leading the pack." Makes the Justice system really stink in Aruban especially if you are black with no connections. I bet our fellow Americans are not too happy about that.  Thank goodness it is on the record now.  The truth is being revealed, even though a family member can lie like PVDS for another family member in Aruba Justice system..however the whole world is seeing this interview. I think the Police chief is sweating now, and whoever let the 3 out of jail for 11 days to erase all the evid"ence, I bet they are making some surprising faces :!:    :oops:  "What comes around goes around" the old adage.

As for the DJ he is another jerk as well, by wasting people valuable time. I believe not all the police are bad, just the ones that were trying to cover up this plot. The DJ deserves the same kind of Justice the rest will get from being exposed for their sceniaro's. He didn't know the brothers, what a liar! It looks like none of them deserves anykind of worthy reputation, or success in life, except jail.  He thinks he is so funny, however, he who laughs last, laughs the longest....Flowers4U, and prayers for NH, and family.  :wink:

BOARD CLOSED FOR BACKUP AT 5:35 for 10 MINUTES

Just a friendly warning

Tom

A Dutch newspaper had an interview with Police Superintendent Jan van der Stra(a)ten:

- Van der Straten doesn't think Natalee is still alive
(why?)
- "Because I know the (details of the) investigation"

- he also says he knows Paul van der Sloot very well. But he's a professional. "pa un, lei pa tur": the law for one is the law for all.

Greta Rocks.

Delayed reactions:
{{edited out namecalling}}
LOL

Mickey John was spooky powerful when he said the Aruban justice officials who arrested him would burn in the fire of judgement day.

I hope they solve this case.  Seems like more and more unfortunate decisions by Aruban law enforcement officials are coming to light.  I was loathe to judge them before not knowing all the facts before, but when they won't go into the white guy's house, "like a cowboy," but they go into the black guy's apartment with fourteen police and grab him in his BVD's and all this stuff, looks like differential treatment, and it hurt more than the guy involved.

NL is that interview online and can you please send a link?

Thanks

Tom

{{edit - there will be NO name calling, please do not alter peoples names in a disrespectful manner, THANK YOU!  Cat}} wears short sleeves.

hello everyone, new to site and trying to learn to navigate. just wonder why i haven't heard of any psychics who assist detectives in u.s. being invited to help??? we never know what special gifts have been given to others.  never used one personally but have heard of good results...trying to catch up on everything, just found this site and finally am getting some answers to things i have been wondering about.  thanks

We have referred a few to the Aruban Police.

couldn't the mother just invite one to help the family without police participation?

G`morning all... :)

NL What newspaper is that article in I can`t find it?

Board Will be closed for 10 minutes for maintainance at 7:15

I'm sure she could but to my knowledge that hasn't happened. We do have our own psychic section under Theories and Speculation. Check the index and you should be able to find it. Some interesting theories.

G'mornin Hannie and other monkey's. Anyone read Riehl World? Our Arubagirl is mentioned and quoted. Big change in the tone of the article too.

Utrechts Nieuwsblad (and other GPD-news papers)

’Ik geloof niet meer dat ze nog leeft’
Door Dick Hofland/GPD

ORANJESTAD - Commissaris Jan van der Straten leidt op Aruba het onderzoek naar de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse puber Natalee Holloway. Hoop op een goede afloop voor het verdwenen meisje heeft hij niet meer. Aandachtig luistert hij naar iemand die hem telefonisch tipt over de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse puber Natalee Holloway. ,,O, jaja. Nou, aan helderzienden heb ik niks.''

Hij schudt het hoofd. ,,Ik heb alleen iets aan feiten.’’ Op zijn kantoor in de wijk Noord op Aruba hangt een tijdslijn, waar het verloop van de onderzoek te volgen is; wie was waar op welk moment, wie heeft wie waar, wanneer gezien. Dertien jaar werkt hij nu op Aruba en volgende maand gaat hij met pensioen. Af en toe was er een moord, meestal in de familiesfeer, soms had die te maken met drugs. Verder gebeurt er niet zo veel. ,,Arubanen zijn vriendelijke mensen, die geweld schuwen.’’ De laatste vijf jaar is hij belast met de reorganisatie van de politie op het tropische eiland.

- Een makkie?
,,Ha. Zo zou ik het niet willen noemen. Als je hier bent als Nederlander moet je niet zeggen: zó moet het. Je moet de mensen er altijd bij betrekken."

- Het is een hechte gemeenschap, ook het justitiewereldje. Is dat niet link?
,,Het is een klein eiland, iedereen kent iedereen. Rechters, advocaten, op recepties kom ik ze allemaal tegen.’’

- Dus ook Paul van der S., die een tijdje heeft vastgezeten op verdenking van betrokkenheid bij de verdwijning?
,,Ja, ik ken hem goed. Maar zoals ze hier zeggen: lei pa un, lei pa tur. De wet voor één is de wet voor allen. Als er redenen zijn om iemand te arresteren, dan doe je dat.’’

- Wat doet de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway u?
,,Ik vind het afschuwelijk voor de ouders, het is niet niks als je je kind kwijtraakt. Maar ik blijf zakelijk: dit is een onderzoek.’’

- Men begint ongeduldig te worden.
,,Een goed onderzoek vraagt tijd. Bij haast is niemand gebaat. Als je gaat forceren, is de kans op fouten te groot."

- Hebt u nog hoop op een goede afloop?

,,Hoop moet je altijd hebben, maar ik geloof niet dat we Natalee levend zullen terugvinden.’’

- Waarom niet?
,,Omdat ik het onderzoek ken.’’

http://www.utrechtsnieuwsblad.nl/regioportal/UN/1,1478,954-Voorpagina__2769596_,00.html

From Greta's Blog:

E-mail No. 4

Greta,
I am a private investigator and wilderness crime scene investigation is my forte. I have been following this case on your show since the beginning. Although you can't report everything in one hour, there are some aspects of the search that seem to be missing. Searching the waters and the land areas can be only a portion of what needs to be searched. The following are some of my questions:
1. Have the storm water drainage pipes, street gutters and manholes been checked? If not, a confined space search team needs to get in there and look.
2. Have searchers checked burned debris on or around the beach and Van der Sloot home? If not they should check. Buttons and zippers don't always burn, evidence of clothing could be found even if it was burned.
3. Did the investigators check the handles of shovels and tools that belong to Van der Sloot? If not, they need to. These items, when used to bury or otherwise dispose of a body contain blood or body fluid from the victim, transferred from the suspect's hands.
There are many other questions, but with all the typical areas searched already, these three questions when answered may find Natalee.
Robert Birch
Dorothy, NJ

Morning all..  hey Hannie!

Re:  NL post at Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:41 am  :
I ran the Dutch text through a translator, so the grammar is probably rough:

Utrechts nieuwsblad (and other Gpd-news papers)
' I no longer believe that she lives still '
By Dick court country/GPD
ORANJESTAD - commissioner Jan of of the streets leads Natalee Holloway
on Aruba the study into the disappearance of the American puber. He has hope on good result for the disappeared little girl no longer. Attentively he listens to someone who telephonically tips him
concerning the disappearance of the American puber Natalee Holloway. ,,O, jaja. Nou, to helderzienden I have nothing.''
He shakes the head. ,,I have only something to facts.'' On its office in the district North on Aruba hang a time line, where course of the research to follow is; who was true on which moment, who has he who where, when seen. Thirteen years he works now on Aruba and next month he goes with
pension. From time to time there was an assassination, generally in family environment, sometimes had do that with drugs. Furthermore there this way much do not happen. ,,Arubanen are pleasant people, that shun violence.'' The last five years he has been charged with the reorganisation of
the police force on the tropical island.
- A makkie?
,,Ha. Thus I it want call. If you are here if Dutchman does not have say you: zó must it. You must involve people always.
- It is a strong community, also the justitiewereldje. Is that not risky?
,,It is a small island, everyone knows everyone. Judges, lawyers, on receptions encounter I them all.''
- Therefore also Paul of of the S., that tijdje have been stuck on suspicion of involvement at
disappearance?
,,Yes, I know him well. But say such as them here: slate pa un, slate pa tur. The law for one is the law for all. If there are reasons arrest someone, then you do that.''
- What does the disappearance of Natalee Holloway you?
,,I find it dreadful for the parents, it is not nothing if you get rid of yourself child. But I remain business: this is a research.''
- One starts become impatient.
,,A good research time asks. At haste nobody has been availed. If you will force, the chance on errors is too large.
- Do you have still hope on good result?
,,Hope must you always has, but I do not believe that we will retrieve Natalee living.''
- Why not?
,,Because I examine know.''

Altho I (thought) I have been following this story since it broke on Trip Advisor w/ a post by "Ashlee" called 'Alert,' (her friend, a chaperone, had returned from Aruba minus a kid).... anyhoo, altho I thought I knew all the characters.. WHO is Lorenzo? I know he is allegedly the son of PvDS, but what is his role in the saga? Additionally, are there pix of him on Tickle or somewhere? I saw links (on page 8 of this thread, I believe) to Tickle accts, w/ new pix of Joran, Jaime- and others I had never seen. Were those Lorenzo's? It would be nice if someone would PM me the answer, as there is so much "avatar" chat, et al, that it is difficult to sift thru all the off topic chat for info

Thx,
SL

You know gals/guys what still bothers me some....

We`ve heard int the beginning about the story that they left her at the HI and a securityguard in black clothes with a radio was there. What I think is really strange about this is.... Why would joran say 'Black clothes"
if he must know what the HI guards were wearing ( black and white) b/c he plays in different casinos on the island also in the HI so I do think that if that`s true he must know that could be tracked as Not true!

Hope you understand what i mean.....

The only thing we really know about Lorenzo is that he is a pretty shady character, rumored to be pretty wealthy owning 2 homes in Aruba, rumored that his father (?) killed himself, rumored to be involved in drugs, underground parties, and porn, and rumored to be PVDS illegitimate son.  He was questioned and released right before Steve was arrested.  That's about all we know.

Ah. They brough in fourteen police officers and grabbed him in his BVD's? Did Mickey say that in his interview? (I caught most of it, but I must have missed that part.) And how many days did they wait before going into the van der Sloot residence? Never mind. It doesn't matter. Long enough to dispose of an elephant, in any case.

My only thought on that was that it was done on purpose.  He probably did know what the SG at HI wore and that there was probably only one on duty in front that night and it would be easy to verify that he never saw Natalee.  But, there were guards at the concert wearing black and I think they maybe determined that Mickey's crew had worn black when they were working the Allegro.  Much easier to "never find" that security guard dressed in black and be able to verify where he was.  Make sense?  That's the only reason I can think of.

By the way, good morning HannieC!!!  How are you?   :D

Professor, my sentiments exactly.  It amazes me how quickly they barged in and arrested him and tore up his house taking clothes and other items, yet we waited an eternity for them to politely arrest the other 3 and look in their houses.

Your quote interest me.  If you create a theory, you fall into the trap of making the facts fit the theory.  Is That what we have done with this case? Looking at the facts, Joren had approx. 45 minutes to "do something" before he called to ask for a ride.  The only way he had more time is if he took NH back to his home with him, in which case he only had roughly three hours before the bus ride to school.  These are the questions I would have based on the facts.
a. What could have happened at that beach in 45 minutes to yield no trace of NH after it happened.
b. What evidence is there that NH was ever in JVDS home?
c.  Why would JVDS take NH to that particular beach?
d. What, in the past, has gone on if anything on that beach, late at night?
e.  Are there scurilous folks known to inhabitat that beach in the wee hours of the night?
f. Did anyone see at that beach during the time in question?
Anyways, I like your quote.  High to Netherlands.
A side note, I noticed a definite attitude of "male chauvanism" coming from the police chief who spoke with Geraldo last night on Fox.  I can only assume Aruba is a male chauvaistic society, and maybe that is not a good assumption.  However, I found it curious that the police chief stated he wanted to get NH back for the father, and the step father, and to help Tim from Equuseaarch... but I never heard him even mention Beth HT.

That makes a lot of sense.

Yes that also could be true dragonfly....  ì`m fine ty :D

About that article in 'Utrechts Dagblad'  Jan van der Straaten says; I know the investigation... That could also mean they have no evidence what so ever to think that she`s been found alive. B/C they have no clue whatsoever of her wherabouts no trail nothing...

Cat, thanks.  

The name altering was starting to bother me also.  Appreciate your hard work.

AS SOON AS I HEARD THE COMMENTS WEEKS AGO ABOUT "NOT BARGING IN LIKE COWBOYS" THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT WAS, DIDN'T WYATT EARP ARREST MICKEY JOHN?

WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID, WAS," WE DON'T BARGE IN ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE PRIVELEGE, WE JUST BARGE IN ON REGULAR PEOPLE"


ENOUGH OF PUSSY-FOOTING AROUND........I WANT TO SEE THE LID BLOWN OFF THIS EMBARASSMENT OF AN INVESTIGATION..........LET THE HOUSE OF CARDS START TO FALL. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO ARUBAN CITIZENS.......YOU HAVE TO BE EMBARASSED OF WHAT YOU ISLAND IS DOING HERE....IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY CITIZEN A BAD PERSON...IN FACT, I FEEL SORRY FOR THE REGULAR PERSON.........THE ELITE ARE RUINING THE ISLAND FOR THE EVERYDAY PEOPLE WHO MAKE IT GO. I HOPE THIS CASE NEVER GOES AWAY UNTIL THE GREASY,DIRTY, ARROGANT COWARDS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR NH'S DISAPPEARANCE AND WHO ABUSE THE LAW AND PRIVILEGE ARE ARRESTED.

K... Thanks! :)   I think that people can get their point across without being disrespectful.

I have been going through the notes and editing out the name altering I see and will continue to do so, even if it makes the posters note make no sense at all!    :shock:

Air23ac, that's funny, that's exactly what I thought when they made the "cowboy" comment.  They certainly didn't have a problem with it when it came to Mickey John.  I remember the wording of that as a "pre-dawn raid".  Don't remember any "pre-dawn raids" when it came time to arrest the boys or the father.

a few days ago there was a guy mentioned with a link provided to his website...Mr.Pink I believe...on the site it was all about his porn business
and it just seems to me that it should still be explored, did we discount him or did he just fade out?

Ty bogey, but the quote isn`t actually mine, but i found there to be alot of truth in that...

What also is strange is according to anita there were adults on that beach  when joran left natalee there,she says she knows for sure I don`t know what to make of that. Who are those adults? And maybe that`s why BHT said there are gonna be more arrests...maybe the ones who were there the "adults"...
And I didn`t see the interview with geraldo, is it on the fox site to see now or was it only on tv? With who did geraldo spoke then? It sounds like a real chauvinistic saying you`re right about that.

 

thanks for that NL.  good work as always.

 hannie: don't forget all the mb students on that beach who "would have seen her".

I think the much-discussed "Mr. Pink" is also known as Paul Brough, a name that's been thrown around for a couple of weeks in conjunction with the mysterious Lorenzo.

Sorry, Pooh, I don't know much about the Mr. Pink.  I recall him being mentioned, but didn't go to the website or anything.  The more people added to this equation the more confused I get about why anyone is involved in this...LOL.

iquitos wrote:




I know iquitos, but when I read that interview it sounded to me that she ment real adults b/c i think she would have said other students or something.

Could it be that the Godfather of Joran gave his family a "heads Up" and that is why the lengthy delay in the arrest?  Also, about PVDS sweating, this could be a reaction of drug use.  Just another observation.  I understand the drug cartel is very strong in Aruba according to the DEA.

FTR:  There was a predawn visit to the v/d sloot residence by police and a group from alabama.  that was very early tuesday morning after natalee did not return to her hotel on Monday morning.  was not a raid but there was a confrontation between civilians there.  there were concert security people who wore black uniforms staying at the HI.

Did anyone at any point in time follow up on where all the concert people went afterwards?  Were the "adults" involved in the event ever looked at/questioned.    Pardon me if this has been addressed previously, my real life keeps getting in the way of reading the threads!! :lol:

Morning everyone. I browsed through and really doesnt look like much new news going on. I was able to watch some Fox last night, but not so much of it. I did see Mickey John speak, and I was just wondering why he didnt say before last night that the family helped come up with the story. Sorry if this has been discussed already. But I just wondered.

We were discussing the way that police stormed Mickey's house and arrested him, taking his clothes and everything the first visit they made to Mickey's house with no real evidence he had ever even laid eyes on Natalee and the exact opposite way the respectfully treated Joran and his family when it was time to arrest them.

couple of things...

JVDS and NH dropped off at 1:50am a little ways (700 yards) from HI.  Probably so they could walk and talk back to the HI before parting.  

Scenario 1:  JVDS gets all hot and tries to have his way with NH.  This probably would have occurred after at least 10 minutes.  Maybe he got what he wanted, maybe not.  But if he did, there is almost no time left before the phone call for a ride.  Maybe he left NH "hysterical" on the beach.

Scenario 2:  Walked and talked and said goodbye.  Maybe 25 minutes for this.  Still no time left to make her dissappear.

Conclusion:  Based on the time line, NH must have dissappeared AFTER he left her.  She had maybe 500 yards to walk back to the HI.

Reason for false story:  the 3 heard about her not showing up for the plane and got spooked and went to daddy VDS and explained what had happened.  After thinking about it - pappa gave them a story to deflect suspiscion away from Joran and the brothers.  They figured that she would show up in the next few days so no harm.  As time went along and she didn't, they started getting panicky and eventually ended up in jail where they reverted back to what actually happened.

Croes himself, out of his own mouth last pm said he did not know deepak, so he couldn't be a friend. There were multiple reasons for his involvment given in about 1 1/2 minutes last night.
1.he wanted to be a "good" guy
2. he wanted to meet deepak ( WHY? did he find him attractive, is deepak that charismatic, did croes need a cheap computer or computer help?)
3.he wanted the reward money
4. he wanted the attention
bottom line was he was NOT a friend of any of them, if one can believe anything said. He has proven himself to be a liar, so who knows.

No, Mickey didn't ever say "family" before.  He said "they" or "the three of them".  Not sure if he meant Deepak, Satish, and Joran or what but it has been talked about and there are differing opinions as to why he is just now saying the "family" or "father are involved.  Don't know what to believe.

 i wonder if we will see her back.

Bendex said already before that the 'Godfather"thing isn`t that 'big' of a deal as it may sound, in the netherlands. It`s more a thing that if something happens with your parents they or he or she will become your guardian

G`morning momto5.. :D

Yes---said he was a "sweet" guy---she as usual spun it and forgot to mention he lied. We are suppoesed to believe according to her, that SC "just wanted to meet" deepak and offered up a false statement to LE in order to be with him.
Julia spins alot of things. especially about joran. That is why I think someone other than julia should confirm the school/exam/bus ride story. joran's own dad didn't remember waking joran up that am for school.

I see your point, as many are now questioning the timeline, but 45 minutes is still plenty of time for someone to be killed.  And it is very possible that he had drugged her, got what he wanted, she passes out, he calls for a ride, then realizes that she just hasn't passed out but has died, calls Daddy or whomever for help, then text message to Deepak "made it home" while actually waiting for Daddy (or whomever to come get him and help clean up mess).  There is time there for her to have been killed or died and they had 10 days to completely clean up evidence.

mornin' Hannie, how goes it there? Is there any recent news there on this case, my friend? :D

Hannie,
this is all I can find.  It was on a TV interview last evening , but it was the Prime Minister Nelson Oduber that made the comments, not the polis.  Sorry about the error.  I do not know if this interview will be on the Fox site.  Basically, Geraldo stationed himself in a hallway during the court proceedings.  He intercepted the PM on his way out of the building and forced him into an interview.  This is when I heard the PM refer to assisting all the males in the NH party, but did not refer to Mrs. BHT.

Did Mickey talk about his home being serached, his cell phone records being scrutinized or anything like that?  Did they impound HIS car when he was arrested? Seems odd that they thought he was responsible, but yet no thorough search of him/his house/his car were ever done either.......???



Mickey John.  I remember the wording of that as a "pre-dawn raid".  Don't remember any "pre-dawn raids" when it came time to arrest the boys or the father.[/quote]

FTR:  There was a predawn visit to the v/d sloot residence by police and a group from alabama.  that was very early tuesday morning after natalee did not return to her hotel on Monday morning.  was not a raid but there was a confrontation between civilians there.  there were concert security people who wore black uniforms staying at the HI.[/quote]

We were discussing the way that police stormed Mickey's house and arrested him, taking his clothes and everything the first visit they made to Mickey's house with no real evidence he had ever even laid eyes on Natalee and the exact opposite way the respectfully treated Joran and his family when it was time to arrest them.[/quote]

 I remember PVDS saying that too.. he didnt remember if he woke him up for school or not? I found that odd.. I mean ..my son has an alarm..it goes off..and a few minutes later I make sure he is up..IF JVDS had his own place thugh and slept there.. wouldnt one think he would get up on his own?? Dont make sense !!

What I also think would be strange if he sneakes out the house to go to C&C then why take the risk of taking here home so his dad founds out that he sneakes out?

And Paul didn`t give them 'a story to tell'.. He only tells them not to panic and stick to there story of what has occured because he himself knowing the procedure suspects that after the witness thing they might be getting arrested! He di`dn`t know at that time there story wasn`t true.

deepthroat:  your scenario is the same as Paul's (as on the NOVA interview on Dutch TV) with one difference.  The kids told him the HI story too and he beleived it.  He admits Joran lied to him.  He admits he advised them the procedure (how to deal with the police) tell the truth, etc.  He does not admit helping them cook up the story ..

Now that is just strange. Even on his way to the airport, annoyed with Greta, Steve said he knew Deepak as a client. Not clear if he meant that he, Steve, uses the internet cafe, or if Deepak had used Steve as a DJ but  "wanting to meet him" just sounds bizarre on a tiny island that does not have hundreds of internet cafes or party boat DJs.

Wouldn't most people who ever used either cafe or boat know both Steve and Deepak as clients?

it is fairly well established that Joran was at school the next morning so he is able to function on little sleep.

It's just wierd to me that he is in the porn business, and maybe I am wrong
but wouldn't those types be shady? and if he is tied in with the mysterious Lorenzo and the VDS's, oh good grief, where am I going with this? :?

i suspect steve understood little of what greta shot at him during her ambush.  so he said yes to everything.

We dont really know WHO gave him a ride back home.  It could have been the father.  And, we have no way of know if NH was with Joren when he went back home.  It is possible she went to the home (in some way, shape, or form).  But I do agree with you , there should be massive effort put into the 45 minutes of time NH and Joren were at the beach near the Mariott.  What happened in those 45 minutes.  Comb that beach.  Talk to anything that moves or did move during that time on that beach.

why did someone have to bring up julie renfro????

can you say on the payroll? he was such a sweet guy? he just wanted to meet deepak? what is he 12? give me a break....he lied, he obstructed justice........hey julie, wake up!!!!

each day this goes one it gets more and more unbelievable how there is something seriously shady here.

Wish I could function on little sleep..lol

Hi KackyLacky &  < Hi Angie :D

No nothing new so far, only the article in the newspaper wich NL put on this board a couple of post back. And the interview yesterday of the vds on national tv here on Novatv but i guess you`ve heard about it already.

Nothing new about the dogs 'hit' ?


Thank you Cat for your post :wink:

Have any of the schoolmates been interviewed to see how JVDS acted in school that day?  Does he have a cliche at school he hangs with.  Did he seem very tired or say anything to anyone?

Well he was in a hurry, and answered something like no he didnt know Deepak and Greta pressed him on this, and that's when said something about as a client. I am just trying to figure out why Julia would say such an odd thing. Maybe it is all the stress and people down there are just going into their special places.

I watched the Steve Croes interview on Current Affair and I watched Greta trying to talk to him.

My personal feeling was that SC was not going to give her any information at all period.

Unfortunately, in my opinion the Curent Affair segment was really short and nothing of any substance came out of it. Just my opinion.

[/quote]

I watched the Steve Croes interview on Current Affair and I watched Greta trying to talk to him.

My personal feeling was that SC was not going to give her any information at all period.

Unfortunately, in my opinion the Curent Affair segment was really short and nothing of any substance came out of it. Just my opinion.

I recall that the police took several items from Mickey's house at the time they arrested him.  It was in all of the news articles about his arrest.  He talked in the interview about how they tore up his house the first time they were there.

We heard a lot of comments on this board about how "impolite" it was to call upon someone after 10 pm, as I recall. And we heard a lot of comments about the improper "tone" that Jug Twitty used, when addressing the van der Sloot family, as they confronted Paulus van der Sloot in his front yard. And we heard a lot of comments about the rudeness of the "Alabama posse," as I recall. But, I don't hear any Aruban voices of outrage at the manner in which Mickey Johns was treated. Why is that?

It was 3 weeks later that Caren Jaansen was asked why they never searched the van der Sloot residence, and she was the one who made the comment, "Well, we can't just go in there like cowboys."

Just for the record, if it weren't for that "Alabama posse," Mickey John would still be rotting in jail, accused of a crime he did not commit.

This is the same theory that I believe happened.  Just because Juran sent a text message saying he was home doesn't make it true.

The monkey punched Gretta

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160904,00.html

I was shooting my handy-cam when the monkey came up, stuck his head in the lens (which made his head seem huge to me) and then belted me. He hit the camera and there is a loud thud and the camera spills. I was crouched down and so he got me when I was not particularly balanced on my feet... I backed up as he hit the camera (he startled me) and caught my foot in the dirt and eventually fell. As luck would have it, not only do we have my video of the monkey punching me, but our professional cameraman was with it and got a different angle. He got the monkey's arm coming out and he got me tumbling looking stupid, very stupid. I fell back on my left wrist and we drove around Friday with ice on my wrist. All is well: My wrist is fine, my pride is a bit bruised (I look stupid falling over but I can laugh at myself.) I still love the monkey and I don't blame him. I would not want someone coming up to me and sticking a handy-cam in my face!


Too funny, I guess monkey knows best.
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

This assumes you're buying the story about the three boys dropping Natalee and Joran off at the Marriot (or there about) beach.  Has anyone established this is in fact what happened or are we just going along with it because it was the last story to come out in the MSM?

I know Mike, it just is more proof of what a liar he is! I wonder if anyone is telling the truth. No wonder LE has picked up so many people in this case, and have has so much difficulty confirming stories.
What gets me, is the dad being let out, because the "timeline" didn't match up---timeline unrelated to a criminal act, as apparently it was based on what he said versus what the Twitty's said. BUT did the judge take into consideration what LE HAD to have known about the allegations of daddy VDS helping to "cook up" the cover story. Like we say down south, out here in the country " There was some home cookin' going on there" in Aruba

Good morning Monkeys.

Steve's mothers comment that she would talk to Aruban press first just popped into my head for some reason.  If Steve heard anything about Greta's interview with the VDS, then there is no way he wants anything to do with Greta.

Steve's pic was Not on  sites of the other suspects.

Satish and Deepak dropped Natalee and Joran off at the beach, according to:
- Joran (source: PvdS)
- Deepak (source: security guard)

Love that saying!!!  So true.  It seems that there are a lot of coverups going on from the police also.  How far up the line does this go?

Morning Monkeys! Anything New?

That's what I told Mike last night.  While we had a picture of him off the internet, it wasn't on any of the tickle sites and in the picture he was not in the company of any of the suspects.

 how does it follow that mickey would be in jail if it were not for the Alabama delegation/posse/searchteam/media juggernaught?  they got him arrested!  he was in jail as a result of their confronting Joran and eliciting from him a false story which led directly to Mikki's arrest.  I bet money the security guards were also on the Alabama list of sustpects since they were hanging around the kids (remember let me help you find your camera?).  It was unprofessional of the cops to take the Alabamans with them to Joran's.   Of course they were just being nice to the anxious foreigners.  I think this would have gone differently if this had been handled by the police from the gitgo with the assistance ot the Alabamans in the background.  the Alabaman coverage of the island was a catalyst to action but was also a catalyst for indimidation that apparently spawned a lot of lies on the part of the suspects and others.  I do not beleive it is normal accepted police procedure to confront the victim family with the suspect or the suspect's family.  So, the Alabama delegation actions was good becasue it got the ball rolling and perhaps not so good in what it caused otherwise.  hindsight is 20/20.

morning Diva.. nothing really new... just Greta on FOx last night interviewing SC..Mickey John.. BHT in NH room at the Holiaday inn. no new news.

The new judge had lots of paperwork to go through, and must have missed that little item. Remember, he had to go through thousands of pages of transcripts in just a few short hours. And when he got done speedreading, he said, "Evidence? What evidence? I don't see no stinkin' evidence."

iquitos
I have to agree with you there.

Yeah, I saw parts of that inbetween trying to get my wireless router to work  :roll:  I just listened to most of it.

So have we decided
a. SC is kinda crazy for going to LE w/ his lie
b. he wanted reward $
c. it WAS a favor & he really does know them

Professor, you do make some good points here.  :)

But, I wonder just how anxious and intimidating you would be to your own people if you knew your daughter had last been seen in the company of this arrogant liar?  And don't forget, the Holloways or the Alabamans did not force anyone to lie or coverup!!

Iquitos, I love your pretzel logic. Here's what I hear you saying: If it weren't for the pressure of the Alabama posse, the amigos wouldn't have had to lie and point fingers at the security guards. Ergo, it's the posse's fault that the security guards ended up in jail. That sounds like Joran's statement to his mother, "Mommy, if you hadn't gone to Holland, I never would have snuck out of the house." Hm. Let's follow your logic a little further. And if Joran had never snuck out of the house, none of this would have happened, so it's really ANITA's fault that Mickey John ended up in jail.

  AMEN Mariloo1

only that picture...(I preferred the first one..btw)

- Joran: has a history of lying...not a reliable source
- Deepak: has a history of lying...not a reliable source

The only way I would believe anything, any of the 5 suspects have to say is if they back it up with verifiable evidence.

Morning, Diva. Just trying to wake up.  :shock:

I can understand their frustration and anger but they should have let the police handle it.

Does Aruba have laws about filing a false police report?
I have lean towards b., I'm sure he knew who Joran is, but maybe did not know him personally.

Admin booted it :( It wasn't sized right. I think I'm gonna have to use my regular avatar, I really don't like it either

They did let the police handle it. That's why Paulus van der Sloot didn't wake up and find his front door lying in his living room. And three weeks later the Aruban authorities got around to checking out the van der Sloot residence. If that ain't restraint, I don't know what is.

I have to say, I do prefer the other picture as well.

I can understand your comment here...if this happened in the US. But seeing as (by their own admittance) that the Aruban LE were not familiar with a kidnapping then they would have waited even longer to initially contact the VDS family. Not saying what happened was the "right" way but at least they were able to get something...instead of waiting. Precious time was lost...but even more time would have been lost without the Twittys involvement IMO.

I try to put myself in their shoes.  The police did not seem to concerned at first, believing she was out having a rendevous.  The mother on the other knows her daughter and this is not like her.  Even if she was having a rendevous, she knows her daughter would be letting someone know she was allright.  This heightens the anxiety of the mother and she decides to look for her on her own and I cannot say I know any mother that would just sit idly by and wait for a word now and then.  I would have been out looking for my daughter and talking to everyone who might have seen her.  This is not impeding the police.  This is helping.  BHT has probably been more resourceful to the police than any detective they have.  The word is FEAR.  The parents and family oif NH are scared to death and waiting for answers is endangering NH's life further.

Equasearch just reported in all the places they have searched they have not found her.

Seems elementary but so many asked for a search update...

Is there anywhere we can look for realtime progress?  Where are you getting this?

Thanks nancy for the update on that . I was wondering about that to since the so called 'hit'.

"he called his daddy for a ride"

Sorry, assumes that he went somewhere and found a pay phone or something.  The police have the phone records from his cell phone.  Not enough time to search for a pay phone to call daddy after he did some horrible deed.

Based on Joran's behaivour, to me, it appears that he really did just leave her on the beach - whether parting was sweet sorrow or he said thanks a lot and took off walking toward home.

kerinyourback!welcome.

I just heard the samething. ALSO they said GRETA should be deputized..she may get to the bottom of it all..lol

This was from a Equasearch representative just interviewed on Fox News.  I'm not sure about "real time" updates.  You might go to their website or email them.

they did also say that there are alot of caves that havnt been searched..septic systems..  etc...

My fear is that with all this time gone by it's HIGHLY unlikely that anyone who could have verified ANY story will come forward.  (Thus leaving the suspecteds to never tell the truth....) If anyone had seen Joran drop her at the beach, etc., what are the chances that a vacationing witness would even still be on the island?  By the time LE really started considering him a suspect (IMO) anyone who would have vacationed that week would be gone back home......that would leave islanders and with the "circus" going on, who would willingly submit themselves to that?  (Not saying I wouldn't if'n I knew the truth, but get my point?)

Ugh!

Late late last night there was a poster who was trying to discount the sex slave theory by stating that IF this happened, Natalee would never have gone along with being sold. Don't know if any of you were here, (and I was too tired to reply) but... HUH? I don't think ANYONE would "agree" to be sold!

As I said I can understand the parents and if I was them I wouldn't  want to wait the 48hrs to report someone missing, that is what happens in most cases that are not children but I think they should have let the police ask the questions and they shouldn't have been yelling at Joran and his family.
I'm not saying that I don't understand why they did, I 'm just saying the confussion of he said she said would not be there.
Most people react on their emotions , thats why a neutral party should have handled it.

Owl! Yeah...I am tired but here. Don't you owls ever sleep?  :shock:
Someone please send me a Starbucks latte.

based on my previous posts, there are only a couple of possibilities:

1)  she is off the island - that's why there isn't a trace of her or...

2)  Someone is holding her somewhere on the island, ergo, no trace of her.

Actually if one buys this story then one has to buy the story of Mickey John in order to reach this conclusion as well?  It is a slippery slope.

that discussion ended soon after you went to bed.  I didn't think anyone last night thought it would be true.

I doubt Natalee was sold as a sex slave.  If Joran weren't the last to be seen with her, then maybe.  Also, any worth she might have had would quickly turn to a liability...no one would want to have in their possession a woman whose picture is plastered all over the world.

Joran knows what happened here and he didn't sell her.  IMO

Hi, Roxyluv. Glad you showed up because maybe you can explain the total lack of outrage at the way Mickey John was treated. They sent in fourteen police officers and arrested him in his underwear, based solely lies of 3 prime suspects. I don't hear anyone from Aruba quibbling about the "tone" used in questioning HIM, or the manner in which they barged in and confiscated "evidence." Explain that to me.

You can resize them with this free program.

http://www.irfanview.com/

And to keep this on topic, I hope Mickey did not decide to do a little payback to the VDS family with the family story. I think Mickey has handled his incarceration much better than I would.

could someone familiar with avatars please PM me..

will do Nikki

sure we do.  now that I have had my quota of mice for the morning it is time for a nap.      

nothing happened after you left.

I am thinking Mickey may need to go into the Witness Protection Program quickly.

>><<

I didn't know the police offered to "handle it."  I thought there was a time limit or something before they would get involved in a missing person case as they implied she would turn up sooner or later.  Perhaps the Twitty's thought when they got there that the police would handle it and ask Joren what happened.  Given the prevalence of date rape drugs, would you have waited and let the police handle it if they would not do anything for forty-eight hours or some other time limit not knowing what had happened to your daughter? It could mean the difference in life or death.

 They did take the police with them which I think indicates good faith on the part of the Twitty's.  Obviously they were not planning to do anything illegal or they would have been arrested.   And the others with them were other middle-aged MB parents, hardly a goon squad (no offense to any poster using that moniker).

Uhhh Nikki....do you really want to use that avatar??  :lol:  :lol:
I would take it and use the program posted above to resize. Or PM me your e-mail address and I will do it for you and send.

I'd be happy to resize an avitar...just email me at:

nancy_drew@mac.com

can't see it here BUT there is an underscore between nancy and drew.

Good mornin' fellow Monkeys.  The Professor made a good point a couple of pages ago about it being rude/inconsiderate to call after 10:00 pm there.  If that's the case that further corraborates, to me, the fact that Joran wasn't texting/calling Deepak to tell him he got home ok.  That's just BS.

I got you a large latte' Kerin.

It is indeed.  You can't fault Mickey if he was hoodwinked by a slick liar.  He's only repeating what was told to him.

what?? you dont like my monkey???? :shock:

I have a question for you because I must have missed this way earlier.  How did Mickey get fingered by Joran?  I mean, how SPECIFICALLY did he get named?  What I have read is that J said security guard with black clothes, so how did LE take this to be Mickey and the other guard?  I am just curious.  Anyone know?  PM me if ya want.

Thanks!

dl3fan- I respectfully disagree.  While it is rude for ADULTS to call after 10, there is a whole other side of it with kids.  Cell phone/ texting can be and is done 24/7.

But, think about Amie Bradley abducted in 98, seen at a bar in Aruba in 99 by a soldier.  He went to police.  The award is 250 million.  Seems like a lot of money but evidently not enough to bring her back.  Sex slavery is big business.

Nancy, did you look at that "tiny pic hosting" link someone put up a week or so ago.  I tried that out of curiosity and it sent "tiger" into a tail spin and froze.  

I think I will stick to several other programs I have.

"This assumes you're buying the story about the three boys dropping Natalee and Joran off at the Marriot (or there about) beach. Has anyone established this is in fact what happened or are we just going along with it because it was the last story to come out in the MSM?


Actually if one buys this story then one has to buy the story of Mickey John in order to reach this conclusion as well? It is a slippery slope."

There isn't anything else to go on - Deepak told this version to Mickey, Father corroborates it is what was told to him, and isn't Satish telling the same thing?

I don't know about others but late at night I tend to lower the ringer, the premise that Joran would text msg, could be a: He is considerate of calling late at night and knows Deepak is probably on line alot....b: Deepak cell is turned off c:, Text msg is probably very popular with teens world wide..

need to drop about 3 zeros from that figure, but you are correct, it is a great deal of money.

Yes, I agree. And to add to that even Deepak's mom said he was online all night. Which makes sense since he worked a later shift.  I'm sure all his friends knew that...and regularly communicated during those hours.  Just look at the number of pages here on SM overnight?  I fell asleep with my laptop turned on last night, within a  couple hours there were over 20 pages!!!!

:::nodding head:::: well...hmmm  :roll:

Proffessor
I didn't see the interview sorry, but I think anyone who was unjustly arrested is terrible. It happened to my own husband because of the color of his skin.My husband and I were assaulted coming out of a restaraunt by a white man and a woman,  I was 3 months pregnant at the time, the guy had a lengthy record for drugs and assaults but his girlfriend said my husband pushed her and thats why her boyfriend put my husband in the hospital, my husband was arrested after being realeased from the hospital.
The police believe it or not will think the worst of the black man, however with a good attorney and lots of money, we won.
However if we didn't have money and no record it wouldn't have turned out the same.
 I do not have much confidence in the police force here or there.
 But the police did have reasons to pick up the men, they were seen in the area ( security videos,) and one was at the concert the same night as Natalee and they were known to harass tourists, so they had just as much evidence as they did On PVDS.

According to a somewhat sleezy Dutch blog site (http://vkmag.com/index.php/weblog/comments/3678), rumour on Aruba is that..:

- Natalee's dad is involved with the war on drugs ('he rolls up drug cartels for a living, he works from the US and Colombia')
- There's an anonymous witness (who doesn't want to go to the authorities because he is a drugs dealer himself), who says he saw Natalee in the night of her disappearance on the beach near the HI hotel in the company of an American guy and a bald Aruban.

It's all rumour and hearsay, but on the off chance that there's any truth to it, I thought I'd post it. It would make for a great Scott Turow thriller, but rather than letting our imaginations run wild, maybe we can try to see how it would fit in with the known facts, like the Holloway's immediate departure to Aruba, the kidnapping suspicion, the quick FBI/DEA involvement and the 'different realm' comments.


Some other observations: In last night's Dutch TV interview with the Vandersloots, mom Vandersloot used wording that suggests that she believes that Natalee disappeared out of her own free will and could turn up again the same way. She repeatedly used the expression 'tevoorschijn komen', i.e. 'to turn up'.

However, police chief Van der Straaten, as per the newspaper interview reproduced here before, has very little hope of Natalee turning up alive. Based on what he knows from leading the investigation, he believes that she is dead.

I was thinking something along the linesof that last night too after watching his interview. he semes like such a nice..down to earth man. I would hate to see anything happen to him because of what he said!

Good morning monkeys  :)  Has arubagirl been in this am?

You will probably be banned due to your avitar and your forum name

did anyone else catch the interview with Satish's lawyer last night speaking with Greta?
The interesting thing that I got out of that interview was that according to the attorney for Satish....
Joran is pointing the finger at Satish saying that he was the one who gave him a ride home that night.

ummm so ok.. Joran calls Deepak for a ride at approx 2:30... (according to this new info) Satish picks him up.

Therein lies the parts of the story, which we do not know.  If we can't go on the word of any of the four major suspects (minus the SC <s>idiot</s>), we have to assume there are other bits of information that we (Monkeys) don't have.  Unless they are holding the current three just because their stories don't match...I hope that's not the case.  I really hope they (Aruban LE) have more.

Poo...isn't that avatar a bit much??????

This story has more twist than a Texas rattle snake...err..ok.. Someone posted it previously..that the possibility of a late night dropoff and that Nat may have been kidnapped within 500 yards of the boardwalk?  What hotels are there from Marriott to Holiday Inn, if we decide to take that scenario for example, it seem that it would make a lot of things fall in place.    I do have to check or maybe some one can assist?  Where did the story of Deepak came out washing his car at 2am, and which days? Sounds like a red herring...another one is the Hysterical screaming of a woman, 2 guards or security escorting her away?  Any source this was taken orinally from?

Your rendition is not correct.  She was seen in Curaco.  Here is the website.

http://www.ctsi.net/amy/story.html

no, sorry!  she hasn't gotten here yet.

whew..been stuck in avatar hell..lol..thanks kerin and nancy..hope i can get my monkey up...lol

OK, so i have one question, and please forgive me ifthis has already been hashed and rehashed, but, Mr PINK...his websites that we saw yesterday afternoon...there was a mr pink contributing to the forum last night....tell me..same one?  :shock:

What does the Mr. Pink have to do with Natalee.  Please forgive the ignorance, but I don't see how it figures in here.

Thank you GreatOwl
maybe something good will happen for Natalee's parents today.

I sympathize with your experience. But where are the Arubans who were so defensive about the "tone" that the so-called "Alabama posse" used with Paul van der Sloot, on that first night? Why aren't they outraged when a SWAT team is sent in to do a "pre-dawn raid" (probably after 10pm) at the home of Mickey John, and when they haul him out in his underwear? Just asking?

well, i am not sure either..i think it had something to do with maybe a porn thing..maybe someone took her for a porn industtry..then you know how things manifest themselves..somehow mr pink's website came into play...lol..i just wanted to know if it was the same guy who was posting... :?

It's a problem.  Take it down.

heavyheart wrote:




And that`s just what I think they are holding them, b/c there initial stories don`t match... that is all they have till now i`ll guess

I just sent your avitar back resized, one cropped and one not cropped.  Make sure you got them, Nikki.

Nancy Drew at your service! LOL

Are you saying the brothel was not in Aruba?

if this police chief(or commissioner) said he now believes that natalie is dead based on information he has reviewed/seen from the investigation................???

this baffles me even more....he can conclude she is probably dead from the info, but just can't figure out who? where? where? why? etc????????

MJ also said when he was first released and did all those TV interviews, that it was the norm for the "old" inmates to get the lowdown on the "new" inmates, and this is what he was doing when he first started talking to deepak. That is how the conversation started. Someone had posted last night about not believing MJ and other prisoners talked to each other, therefore MJ would not have had the info he claimed to have.  
Also, MJ used the word "they" made up the story


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/14/ng.01.html


http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8230305/

been nice knowing you poo_slinger....bye

thank you...I was just going to write and request the same.

Because if the police did it is official but if someone who you do not know comes banging on the door in the middle of the night, anyone would be on defensive.
I'm not trying to say what they did was right or wrong , just that it could have been handled better.
Its normal for people to react on their emotions, just not always smart.
If I suspected someone hurt one of my kids , they would have to restrain me but on the other hand if people came to my door and started yelling at me and my son, I would tell them to F-off, probably feel very badly later because of their situation but people get on the defensive when pushed.

Ditto - actually I did send a message.

WHEW...NANcY thank you!! Kerin, thank you!! I have a monkey!!!!

Editorial note:

Got em give us a few.

The first website I looked at reported she was seen in Aruba and that is why these two cases are creepy.  Maybe this was incorrect.  It won't be the first time incorrect info has been given to start a rumor.  Sorry, but my point is Sex Slavery is alive and well.

ROFLMAO  Oh My Nikki.. that is adorable..LMAO  I love it ha ha ha!!

That's funny  :lol:

Thanks absolut!

probably ought to block his IP address or he'll be right back

awww..guys..thanks..SEEEE Kerin?? LOLOLOL...

ok..taking up NO more space for silliness....my apologies.. :D

Hi Hannie, I think because the devil is in the details. They didn't think it thru, and didn't think anyone would question anything they said. In my opinion.

Absolut..thank you...glad to know you always lurking around when we need ya... :D

This is adorable!!!  Made me smile...

Good question.

He doesn't CONCLUDE he BELIEVES. There's a difference between personally believing something and being able to prove it or figuring out how it came to be so.

is there a possibility that the body could have been cremated? is it crazy to think that the level of this could include someone having powerful enough connections and payoffs to do something on this level?

How did LE get from black clothed security guard to Mickey John?  Any one know?




Hi Hannie, I think because the devil is in the details. They didn't think it thru, and didn't think anyone would question anything they said. In my opinion.[/quote][/quote]

At this point.. nothing would suprise me anymore.

Interesting since supposedly joran is not to be speaking about the case his mother told us last week. I am marking up this latest "adults there" comment as just another lie this boy has told his mother.

Thanks for the PM's, one request though. PLEASE do not quote the offenders post, whether the content you quote is bad or not. When I delete the person and the post the quotes leave a hole in the flow when people are reading back and we get more PM's. Thanks.

Not only a good question but it prompts other thoughts...

1)  he thinks this based on what exactly?  That they cannot find her?  Seems to me that if cadaver dogs cannot find remains then she ISN'T dead

2)  Is he saying this to diminish hope and try to quell media attention?

[/quote][/quote]

And, if the two security guard had been laid off, as we are told, then they would not have had any radios, even if they still had uniforms.

LMAO...looks great, Nikki!!!  :shock:

Sorry had to leave for a sec. Thanks for slinging the "poo" out, Absolut.

     My memory could be wrong, but I recall that at one point an Aruban authority announced that he believed Natalee was dead pretty much simultaneously with Natalee's mother stating that she had some information that led her to believe her daughter was still alive. So who knows?

daniel, that is just semantics........he has enough information to form an opinion, info we can't see, so it is reasonable to believe his opinion is on the path of conclusion

maybe we need to ask the police chief specifically why he thinks she is dead.................

lets here his logic and info to support this.

\

Anything is possible on this island.  Many funny connections going on.

I suspect that there may be former date-rape victims of Joran van der Sloot lurking on this forum. If you are such a person, then I would advise you to contact the FBI or to send a private message to one of the founders of this forum. As a participant on this forum, I can attest that the founders of this forum are people of integrity and are people whom you can trust. You may wish to work out an agreement with them as to how you want that information to be handled, but I would urge anyone who has been victimized by this man, or who feels that she may have been given a date-rape drug by him, to have your voice heard. I will make a similar announcement at Riehl World.

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee. Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes. The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm. "To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association. "The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are." Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later. "There are going to be a lot of repercussions"

Suffice to say don't come a knocking in wee hours of the night at my front door..

A couple things really bother me:

I do believe the Renfro confirmation on Joran being on the bus at 6:50...given that THIS IS A VERY TIGHT TIMELINE!!!  Even tighter than I originally thought.  I have to believe if Joran was engaged in foul play with Natalee that he had HELP from above (meaning dear old dad).  I think it's significant that reports are that he is a brilliant legal mind and can find all kinds of loop holes in the law, etc.  

I'm also very concerned about Steve Croes, what knucklehead just comes forward out of the clear blue!! I don't buy it for a second.  It's possible...there are airheads everywhere.  But, I doubt this is the case.

Also, I'm pissed LE had such little respect for Mickey that they didn't even get a statement from him regarding info Deepak told him. That info may well have moved the interrogations forward, AND possibly kept daddy behind bars.

Or, maybe we need to shanghai Joren on a slowboat to China and when he talks, he can come back.

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee. Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes. The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm. "To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association. "The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are." Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later. "There are going to be a lot of repercussions"

Suffice to say don't come a knocking in wee hours of the night at my front door..




Cool!

Hmmm...not sure what to think about the change in the official spokesperson from Croes to Jansen.

I missed that report.  Maybe she got "too cute" for them!  LOL

Some on here will be very disheartened to learn of this change but not because of the case.

It seem to be fishing for this, the last couple of weeks now, would we get more mileage if more MB students came forth to give an idea of the state of mind of Natalee, the sighthings of Joran in the Casino, the parties at SBF? We know nothing about the the friends that were there...I don't get the motive of 2 best friend of Nat, leaving at 12 o clock, I think it was Byrd and McVay, said they left CnC at 12 why? We do not know what the fighting in CnC was all about nor a previous fight before that?   I hear CnC creates a criminal environment conducive to some nefarious kidnapping/sex trade/drug scenario.  Yet most of the MB went there for the several visit, one even said it a nice place to hang out...

I agree Nancy Drew....  I think PVDS will go back to jail anyday and SC perhaps as well.. I remember hearing on FOX the other day that they arnt out of the clear yet.. they are STILL suspects and can be easily arrested again. If my memory serves me right.. SandraK said that she is friends with someone who is firends with SC.. she said he dont know JVDS.. but never made mention of the other 2 boys..
  Hmm reporter on now saying SC was looking for reward money.. and thats not the case and he could be somehow complicit in the crime.. I guess the boys forgot to send him a memo that they changed his stories..
  They think PVDS helped by telling the boys not to say anything when MJ was arrested..  and he knows much more then he is telling.

I am getting mad at FOX. They are showing Mickey's interview again and prefaced it by saying that Mickey John SAID PVDS was involved. If you watch Mickey, at first he does NOT say daddy was. (per Deepak)
Can it be, with both Mickey and SC, that the language barrier is such that when Greta is in your face asking questions, maybe they don't understand this "fast talking" journalist and misunderstand the question?

Yep Nancy...that must be it!  :D

Can you blame us?  She was cute.  She was not forth coming with a lot of information but neither will Jansen.

It might well be, but until he can prove that she is either dead or alive, he can only express a belief. It would be very unprofessional to do otherwise.

Of course, when they KNOW that she is either dead or alive and telling that won't hurt the investigations, he will say so (after informing the parents and US authorities).

Hey All!!!!!!  Anything new?  Did her mom say she had info that makes her think she is still alive?

The reporter on Fox also said IF there was a homicide.. and a body placed on the western part of the island.. it would not wash to shore...the currents are too strong.
 SO.. if that COULD be the case.. are they seraching the area where a body could possibly wash up?

As has been posted on this site. Their statements given at this time may be --revised -- from what they might have seen earlier because of contact and exposure to opinions of others. I would suggest leaving them alone at this time. It has been reported that the FBI interviewed all earlier.

Good morning everyone.  Trying to read through all posts since I left yesterday!  How is everyone?

I don't buy it. I think it's just "island mentality." I think the Arubans were protective of Paul and Joran van der Sloot, because he was "one of them," and they didn't care how Mickey John was treated because wasn't "one of them." He was Grenadan. And I think that the corruption that we see in the police department goes way beyond just a "few bad cops." On this incestuous island, it seems to seep into every nook and cranny of island life. That is why we have Steven Croes coming forward to offer a false alibi for his homey, and why we have women lining up to hand flowers and potted plants over the van der Sloot's front gate. And that is why, when Deepaks story started to unravel, he started to refer to Joran as "the Dutch boy." (Meaning: Not from Aruba) And that is why the life of one "tourist" is less important than the "tone" used in addressing one of the island's permanent residents. Just a hunch.

And, by the way, the police were with the Twittys. And they didn't even knock on the door. They waited patiently, outside the gate, and beeped the horn for 30 minutes.

LOL Now I am quoting myself.. they just said that the Dutch marines will search the ocean..the more difficult areas that the average person can get to!

I know, but Julia says SC did not know deepak, and wanted to meet him, he had heard deepak on the phone, and SC walked up to him and said, yea I saw that girl stumble that night in front of HI---what is even more interesting is that deepak knew it was a lie when SC said that, and he let SC go forth to LE with the lie.

no I have heard nothing yet.

I love That Monkey  :D

I suspect that the spokesperson was changed because the Dutch media is now involved.

Did you ask this question last night?  Or was that someone else?  Anyway, when the question was raised, I did a Google on crematorium in Aruba, and not-so-surprisingly, there was information on one being built in 2004.

Perhaps either pops or the Godfather had access.

Just pokin my head in to say good morning, monkeys.  My new job is very demanding so I can't spend much time here.  I hope there is some good news today.  Well, if there is a body found, that of course is NOT good news, but if NH is not alive, then that's the best news that can be hoped for.  Her family needs a resolution.  Good thoughts to NH's family, friends and all those helping to find her.  Hugs to you all (even those with ridiculous theories... :wink: )

But who can believe anything they say? I can't, and LE must be having the same problem :x

Yes, I recall a long report from several weeks ago that indicated the western edge has powerful currents that only go out...nothing would come back in from there.

How far is that from the hotel area...or,the Marriot?

Professor wrote:


If you call that a hunch then you don`t read arubagirl`s statements that you are not 'one of them'if you are born in the netherlands. And corruption you base on? This 'incestuous island' Hmm maybe I don`t understand your words very good but if I am then you are a little over the top with your statements JMHO....


And that there are 'women who are lining up' to give flowers and potted plants or something....What is wrong with that? I think it`s only very nice of them to do such things.

I'm popping in and out of here - trying to sell freight to trucks - and so excuse me if this has been discussed already.....BUT what are the headlines today?  

And is there any possibility that PVDS will be detained again, or are the police just going to ignore what Mickey said to the entire world last night?

If you guys get a chance, read the thread from early, early morning....there were some very sharp and witty people on this board!

Mickey said "the family" was involved in cooking up the cover-up. When Greta asked him what that meant, he said he didn't know, just "the family." Now, that leads me to believe that that included THE FATHER AND THE MOTHER. Otherwise Deepak would just say, "the father" or "the mother."

So, why get mad at FOX? They aren't distorting Mickey's account.

Poo Slinger is back...under the name Fecal Fastball. Cute.

pine.....it must have been someone else who asked about cremation.....but there is a new facility? i wonder how well connected the van der sloots are? this, of course, is just wild speculation.

the FIRST lie was already made up, and if nothing "bad" had happened, why did the boys and dad have to even come up with a cover story before ever being asked anything by anyone?

I agree, blaming the scared parents of a missing girl for LE automatically buying into a lie told by boys of priviledge is just, well, horrific. joran and the bros kalpoe, were happy living with the 2 SG's being locked up for something they had nothing to do with. Sick

MJ said "family".  By default, Paulus is inferred.  It's only because Anita wasn't back yet from Holland that she's not implicated by that statement as well.  

And language barrier?!?!  Mickey is from Grenada.  His first and ONLY language is ENGLISH!!!

Also, Greta reiterated multiple times, wanting absolute confirmation, so there was no misunderstanding...she even said something to the effect, 'what % certain are you of the wording Deepak used?'

He asserted, unequivocally, that Deepak said "family".

If this is true and widely known in Aruba, why would anyone do anything with a body that they do not want found other than throw it into the ocean on that side?

Since LE is not releasing any facts, what isn't? :wink:

Yes, Mariaine's Dutch would be very good as she went to school there for some period of time as I understand. My view is that it is like a PR move by the Prosecutor to have some face time before the Dutch people. Maybe I am just a cynic about human motives.

Is it just me, or does it seem a bit too convenient that MJ didn't mention anything about the "family" in his earlier statements (when it would have been useful) and only added that to his story after PVDS had been taken into custody? Seems to me that he just wants to get even or something.

Also, SC has got to be either the worst liar or the stupidest guy on the island. If there is a Gilligan, it would be SC.

What???  No tulips for Mickey???

I believe the report that the brothers and Croes didn't know each other...it's hard to lie about such things as friendships are hard to hide.  But, I have to believe someone, or something compelled Croes to go forward.  I think he said he overheard a conversation about Deepak...was that conversation passionate and did the discussion indicate poor Deepak was getting screwed?  Not sure...just rambling.

Mickey's conversation is hearsay and probably not allowed as evidence...BUT, if LE had taken his statement it could have really helped in interrogation of daddy and all three boys!!!  If he told Mickey there's a chance he told someone else during his time free.  Kids are kids...it's hard for them to stay totally silent...especially during the time when they weren't in custody.

Yes they did, Professor. The "lead in" story was....next we have an interview with one of the released security guards, Mickey John, who said that Paulus VDS was involved in making up the cover story. Then they went to the tape. It is the misleading lead-in that infuriates me!

My take is that Anita's family is really responsible for Natalie's disappearance.  After all, they had an "event" in Holland, and asked AVDS to attend, and because she was gone, Joran.....oh well, you get the drift....
 :wink:

I heard Mickey say that he wasnt sure who else was considered to be "family" but that the father was definitely involved.  This was on Greta - how come I am seemingly the only one who heard that statement??

The police told them to wait and go to CnC's on Wednesday night, because it was ladies night and she would probably show up. I don't consider that evidence the LE was willing to help Natalee's family do anything, much less search for her.

However, a CNN reporter had to go a considerable distance off shore on the Western shore to get into that current. It seemed like he said 1000 yards. Otherwise, you floated back to shore. He claimed he got in the water to do this test.

Ooops, I started a new thread w/ this a minute ago.. sorry
SL

(re-paste)

Greta's good, real good... speaking of, I sent her an e-mail Sunday.. in which I complimented her balls in posting some nasty reader e-mails. I also stated Geraldo made up drama if he couldn't find any. Anyway, ahe HERSELF.. replied to my email w/in an hour.. and it was no email typed by a sec'y, etc

Here is a paste of her blog, contradicting what Dash had said about the access from the sliding glass door:

PASTE (GretaWire Blog-Fox)



Creating a timeline is essential to an investigation. It is sometimes hard to create the perfect one but you take pieces of the puzzle and do the best you can. In creating a timeline for Natalee Holloway (search), we needed to figure out where Natalee was last seen or known to be. This includes going to the possible end of the timeline — meaning, where in her expected path that night did she not end up? In other words, we know she was expected to return to her hotel room... did she? Could she have returned after seeing Joran van der Sloot (search) and gone back out? Could someone have followed her to her room? (It was a first floor hotel room with sliding glass doors to the beach, which could be dangerous for a young woman even with roommates.)

In my mind, I have confirmed that Natalee never got back to her hotel room on May 30 — so no intruder (like the Elizabeth Smart (search) case) nabbed her. I confirmed it for myself by taking a hotel room tour with her mother (pictures attached and we showed the video last night.) In the hotel room was a bed that had not been slept in — so I assume she did not return home and then go out again after her time with Joran. (Of course I also assume the info I was told that the bed was not slept in and then made by a housekeeper is true.) The fact that her passport was left in the room also suggests to me that she intended to return — in other words, this was not a runaway situation. The same can be said for the presence in her hotel room of her wallet with money. This also rules out for me a hotel room intrusion/robbery since the money and wallet were there. The only thing missing besides Natalee was her driver's license. I assume she took her license to prove age at the club she went to and where she met Joran for the second time that night.


It was not easy to do the hotel tour with Beth, Natalee's mother. This entire month long investigation, of course, is very, very, very painful to Beth. Beth is grateful that many media outlets are here in Aruba investigating (reporting) and also putting pressure on the authorities to do more for Beth and their family. I sure wish we could find Natalee alive and well, but being optimistic is not easy. The odds are that she is dead — but the family struggles to keep hope alive. I admire them for this — they are a very nice family.

As an aside, do you want to know what bothered me most in Natalee's hotel room? The worst part of it was Beth showing me her daughter's wallet with all the crisp one dollar bills in it. Beth had gotten Natalee the ones for tips while on her Aruba holiday. For some reason standing there with Beth and looking at all those crisp ones I flashed back to the thought of how excited Beth must have been to go to a bank and get those ones for her daughter — they were so crisp and there were so many that they looked like you had to get fresh from the bank. Little did Beth know that her motherly task of getting tip money for her daughter would take such an ugly turn and I felt terrible for Beth as we thumbed through the ones.

Many on the island think the investigation is stalled. This could be true, but when an investigation is stalled you don't quit, you start over. One should start from scratch and be willing to re-think everything — including fixed ideas. This does not mean you abandon all your earlier theories and evidence but that you start anew and make sure that you have been thorough and have gotten everything you can out of every witness in the matter. That is what we did — started to investigate anew — because the investigation seems stalled to us. Of course, maybe the investigation is proceeding with great speed and we just don't realize it. But, to start over since we think it stalled, yesterday we went to Mickey John's (search) house to talk to him.

As you may recall, Mickey was one of the two guards who was arrested on June 5 (the three boys were arrested on June 9.) He is very upset about what happened to him and frankly I don't blame him. But slipping between his upset and the police "rush to judgment" arrest of him is some potentially important information. Mickey was housed in jail for a short time in the cell next to Deepak Kalpoe and spoke to him about Natalee Holloway. It appears Mickey has not volunteered this information to the police (he is mad at them) and the police have not been clever enough to go back and ask him (maybe an apology would help, too.)

Mickey did provide us some info that could be (not saying I am certain it would be) important to the investigation. We aired the interview (and that information) last night. Of course the information that Mickey did provide needs to be checked against his earlier statements to make sure that this is not an embellishment. Nothing should go unchecked — corroboration is powerful to make sure one is on the right track in investigating a case. We took still pictures from our time with him and those pictures are posted on the blog today. Click on the links in the photo box above to check out my photo essays.

We are working on a segment having to do with the tides around the island so we shot video all over the island of the water and beaches. I posted some pictures from that shoot — it looks like we are having fun at the beach but note we are in clothes, not swimsuits. Only people who are working would be dressed like that on those hot, hot beaches. It is steamy down here.

Finally, while we are here doing investigative reporting, we are not fooling ourselves and thinking we are the investigators. The police are the appropriate investigators and we are careful not to get in their way. We are simply "hitting the pavement" every day and asking questions — we are not suffering from delusions of grandeur that we will solve this disappearance. We are only seeking to bring you information and learn as much as we can about it.

END PASTE

SL

FWIW, about 5 minutes ago on Fox, saying there's only 1 FBI agent left there...the agents who came back stated they wished they could have been more involved, but the Aruban gov't was reluctant to let them do anything.  

Also stated that some issues should/would/could have been handled differently than what LE actually did.

It's just you...well, maybe a few others in denial as well.

Everyone made the wrongful assumption from the get go, that when Mickey said "three" came up with the story, that Satish was one of the three, but, all along, was referring to Paulus as complicit in the scheme.

mishj,
I heard exactly what you heard.  Seems to me that should be enough evidence to pick up pops VDS again.

When I refer to incestuous nature of the island mentality, it goes beyond just intermarriage, but extends to a multitude of interrelationships, where everybody is either somebody's cousin or has known the family for years and years, or has a business or professional interest in common, etc., etc.

I think the Arubans are ambiguous about the van der Sloots, since they are from the Netherlands. But it is clear that, whatever status the van der Sloots enjoy on the island, it is still better than that of mere tourist. Tourists come and go, and are of no importance whatsoever. If the life of one girl doesn't count and more than the reputation of a family of one of the residents, then what does?

sadly it is not proven Amy was abducted, and she was in a different place.

Ok, just checking...

 :wink:

I heard it too...looking now for video of it on foxnews.com.  

I like Greta's summary - thought others here may want to read it
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161025,00.html

While it is admittedly distorting the precise language Mickey used, please share with us any other plausible inference in the use of the word "family" that does NOT implicate Paulus as well.

I did see the interview yesterday.  Mickey was saying at first-Deepak told him that the 3 of them sat down to come up with the story.  Greta asked, who.  Mickey told Greta Deepak said him(Deepak), the dutch boy and the dutch dad/the family.  Then she wanted clarification, dad or family.  Mickey told her family.

One thing that strikes me ad being odd.  When you are friends with someone, you call them by their first name or nickname.  Everytime we here Deepak talking he always (well, seems to) refer to Joran as the dutch boy  Why is that?

I've been thinking...

Mickey Johns comments to Greta might well open the door to bringing Anita in as a witness/suspect.  Not that I think she's involved...but, since Johns refers to "family"....she could/should be brought in for questioning about any possible "family" conversations took place after the evening Natalee went missing.

I think that woman would CRACK big time under bright lights and interrogation.

Not 250 million... 250 THOUSAND... and she was seen in Curaccu not Aruba

In my opinion, I totally agree Charmz

Yes, but Johns was clear whatever "family" meant it DID include Dad.

Didn't she disappear in between the islands?  Like she was there when they left Aruba, but not when they got to Curacao?

I have no pet theory, and take pains to keep an open mind but this one rings about as solid as the Ethiopian tribesmen matrimonial abduction.

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of hospitality. If anything, tourists (guests) get a better treatment than others. Thousands of locals have been looking for the girl.

Are you always so mistrusting or only when people foreign to you are involved?

She had been in Aruba, at CnC, she never made it off the boat in Curcao.
Here is the link to clear up any confusion:
http://www.tggweb.com/amybradley/

NO SHIT!!! He laughed when I told him people passsing food etc over judges fence.  Funny how no media when judge gets out.

Yeah, and not to mention that he or his family has ever made any plea to the public to help find her OR even helped search the island themselves in any way!  IF the people there support him and he knows this, doesn't he ask them ALL to help search??????

I am posing this question in all seriousness. Does PVDS have any connection to or with a local funeral director? It is very easy to dispose of a body in a casket with someone else. Just a thought.

Scott...calm down. My point was...I didn't like the lead-in being stated that MJ SAID the father was involved in the cover story. Then when you actually see the tape, Greta asks him 2-3 times and each time he does NOT say father...until the last time and I believe (could be wrong) that Greta states father first..and then MJ agrees. MY opinion was that maybe Greta's pressing MJ made him include the word father? This would also be based on the fact that I was sent FOM's phone conversation with MJ which happened earlier in the day.

My second point was on SC. He is driving away and Greta is in his face with a microphone asking questions and it is obvious that he wants to not only drive away but that he is somewhat confused at either her fast-talking or he is just plain "dumb" (based on the facts of his arrest I will go with the latter).

So, YES...I am fully aware that English is MJ's first language. No need to be so condescending. I am merely stating my opinion that maybe on SC the language barrier (or fast talking) was an issue and that on MJ it could have been the approach.

That website doesn't mention CnC's anymore does it?  Looks different now than when I looked at it last, can't find the whole story of how the men had asked her to go to CnC's. It used to be there, now I can't find it.  Even still, last time I looked I never read that she actually went.....

mariloo, if you google her name you can get the real facts of that case.
http://www.ctsi.net/amy/

I think it's important we study the transcript of this interview.  I just checked Greta's site and it's not there yet.  I think transcripts are far better than videos.

[/b]

Thanks for the whole email--sorry I cut out some--didn't want it to be huge-even though it may be!!!

THANK YOU, FOM. Obviously I was not speaking clearly enough.

One line OT:  Just another Florida case for the Supreme Court, it is just to bad someone will probably get hurt before this ridiculous law gets reviewed.

Hey guys..something is really bugging me and has piqued my curiosity...Just night before last Jug and Beth were on and they were infuriated with the release of PVDS, and rightly so IMHO..However, last night he sort of seemed a little calmer and was asked about his change of heart, as I am sure you guys already know..Then, it was followed up with, " is there a reason why you feel better? so  do you know something we do not that you  have found out today?"..His response was .."yes...something has been brought to my attention today that makes me feel we are moving in the direction we need to be..."(paraphrasing)... I just wonder..what this is..any ideas as to what couldve manifested quite so quickly?

For the first time, I got the impression that Beth Twitty might have been under the influence of some type of medication. Her speech was not as crisp as it usually was, and this was such a painful interview. I hope that she is not going downhill. She has lost a lot of weight, and she is beginning to look gaunt. I cannot imagine what her life must be like, each day.

Nikki, you are a nurse. Could the difference be Prozac?

i heard that as well mishj. he actually said the same thing in two different ways - possibly a language issue.

wtf? Everybodys on drugs now.  Prozac takes WEEKS to work professor not instant like xanax.

If he could tell u himself he would
HOW is it we were not aware big cover --we went thru this..he says everybody knows, man.../maybe this info was never taken seriously for a reason?? The lady Gtera interviewd after seemed non chalant about it IMO any one else see her?? Dark hair can't think of name...they were sitting in captains chairs outside right after mickey on w/ greta.

Yes it was Karl Penhaul, and the video is on the CNN site.

Hey, what do I know. I'm not on the stuff. Yet.

LOL..not with that dramatic of a change...it would HAVE to be stronger...LOL

Hey Lex Prof--I was born in Lex! Just wanted to say hi--haven't seen you around here before.

Regarding your statement: I must have missed Mickey saying he wasn't sure who else was considered family. I wonder what that means. How many people were involved in making up the original story?

Marianne Croes or the reporter from the Aruban paper?

Can they keep the "suspects" in custody and charge them with a crime without a body?

Reporter if female then ...thanx Kerin

I don't think it has anything to do with drugs.  Even though I wouldn't blame them for taking a sedative of some sort.  I DO think it has to do with their meetings yesterday with Aruban officials. They were told something there.  

Also, I think Beth Twitty is depressed...she isn't powered by the huge initial searches involving tons of people. Yes, she has her family and friends which is huge...but, now has quiet moments to deal with her loss and pain.  It's all very sad, and as a mother of four...it breaks my heart to watch her.  She is also an inspiration and example of great maternal strength.  She is very courageous.

And Professor, i knew you were being facetious, however, Taz is right..it does take 2 -6 weeks to develop a level of prozac in your bllod for it to be effective..But, i wouldnt doubt it at all if Beth is not medicated...I know if I were her I would HAVE to be..without a doubt, her endurance is something I could only dream to have... :D

Nancy...do you have the link that some posted to reduce the size of an avatar?

MJ said " I don't what the family consists of, I know the father was involved" they just showed the tape again

Youre right nancy I think they have been given some pieces of information from investigators that provide more conclusively that Natalee isnt alive.  I think they have resigned to that now and its showing in their faces. Nothing we are hearing says Natalee could be alive anymore.

No, I just used my own program to reduce the size.  I'm happy to do it again, if anyone needs it.

nancy_drew@mac.com (underscore between nancy and drew)

I'm heading into a phone conference so will be busy for a few minutes.

[
I don't think it has anything to do with drugs.  Even though I wouldn't blame them for taking a sedative of some sort.  I DO think it has to do with their meetings yesterday with Aruban officials. They were told something there.  

Also, I think Beth Twitty is depressed...she isn't powered by the huge initial searches involving tons of people. Yes, she has her family and friends which is huge...but, now has quiet moments to deal with her loss and pain.  It's all very sad, and as a mother of four...it breaks my heart to watch her.  She is also an inspiration and example of great maternal strength.  She is very courageous.[/quote]

The family has shown amazing strength...I know that whatever happened to NH she fought hard-as hard as her mom is...Amazing people.

Anita was not home when the lie was initiated.

Don't flame me, but Jug seemed as though he might have had a drink or two to calm himself.  Maybe some kind of medication.

I would surmise it was Greta informing him of Mickey's use of the word "family", thus implicating the father.

Perhaps, he, as I wrongfully presumed, thought that Paulus would have been re-arrested by this morning, at the latest, once Mickey's account of what was said, was corroborated by Deepak.

If Deepak changes his story under questioning, and says he didn't say "family", he risks further implicating himself in Natalee's disappearance.

Geez, I would need some meds too!

hi there BlueKyGirl! i have only been here about a year (professor at UK) but really love it.

As for Mickey's comment I had a mental image of mom and pop van der sloot and the three boys hunched over a table conspiring. if it happen "the night of" obviously mom would not have been there to be involved.

wouldn't blame him. :cry:

Perhaps it was the voice analysis test that might occur today.

DISAGREE.  The ONLY thing they could have is Natalee's clothes or her driver's license.  Even those items would not prove she was dead.

Got to get story right before mommy gets back!!! :!: Around pool...the three??  Satish not there?

Ok correct me if I'm wrong because I didn't see the interview lastnight, but didn't both guards say they were not near the hotel that night, early morning, well that's not what their lawyer said


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159052,00.html


There is no conflict in their statements. There has been a slight adjustment because one of them stated that he did not visit the Holiday Inn hotel on that Sunday. Later, he remembered that there was a beach party and that he did go to the hotel area in the morning. Now what they say now is clearly the same.


VAN SUSTEREN: What is that circumstantial evidence, sir?

LEJEUZ: Well, there is one boy, kind of a beach bum, who stated that he saw them walking around the pool area around the time of night that Natalee must have disappeared. And there is another employee of the hotel who stated that he saw two security guards walking the area around that time. But they have not been positively identified by these people.


So what is the story, I'm not trying to lay the blame on them but people want to take their word about what they heard at the jail.
There is a lot of lying going on in this case, Joran and friends , guards, Steve maybe even PVDS.
I can see why the LE are at a stand still.

Again, Mickey is from Grenada, a former British colony that speaks ENGLISH ONLY....there was NO language issue.

Kerin, Mickey does say the father was involved I quote from the Tivo
"....I don't know what the family consists of, I know the father was involved........."

FOM...are you going to talk to Mickey again soon? Seriously I am worried about his safety. Does he understand that he is the topic of each and every FOX report today?

First of all, bob, adorable monkey!! Secondly,i agree with you..i thought it was simply outstanding that he mentioned that about the guy in Atlanta, and the very next day, that guy was there..THAT is wonderful..

nancy_drew wrote:

I don't think it has anything to do with drugs. Even though I wouldn't blame them for taking a sedative of some sort. I DO think it has to do with their meetings yesterday with Aruban officials. They were told something there.

Also, I think Beth Twitty is depressed...she isn't powered by the huge initial searches involving tons of people. Yes, she has her family and friends which is huge...but, now has quiet moments to deal with her loss and pain. It's all very sad, and as a mother of four...it breaks my heart to watch her. She is also an inspiration and example of great maternal strength. She is very courageous.


I agree that she is depressed, and rightfully so. The change in her appearance and very minimal speech in the motel room last night was in sharp contrast to her postive comments in the prior 30 days. She is probably coming to the reality that Natalee may be dead, or missing forever.
Diazepam (valium), or xanax would put her in a somewhat "relaxed state" for several hours.  I know I'd be taking it also if I were in her position.

Yes he did mention that was new turn/surprise additional help

Thanks, Kacky!! I have not disputed that. Again, my point is I think it was from Greta's prompting.  :) Especially if you review his phone conversation with FOM (which she posted part of above)
:::hearing the words "are you hearing the words that are coming outta my mouth" from the Jackie Chang movie::::

I am sure Nancy Grace said ' Karrrrl Penhaulllllllll how did you float???? Can you believe that the police have not done this same test Karrrrl Penhaullllll???

Why does she always call him by his full name or is that a first and middle name??

When my boyfriend died. I was put on xanax. I am sure that these parents are on some kind of medication to keep them sane. If it was my daughter I would be hospitalized. Because realistically I would be hunting down answers myself, by any means.

How did the quotes get messed up?  It is saying KackyLacky was the one who stated the CNN water test...I was the one who posted that!!!  KackyLacky-sorry if it isn't your opinion--not my doing!  :D

hi scott - sorry, i did not mean a translation issue but rather a "general to specific issue" e.g. "those boys broke your window" VS "the smith brothers broke your window". when he initially said "they" there was no clarification as to who "they" might be - it just appears that an assumption was made.

Maybe not when the lie was initiated. But, were their "family" meetings that took place during the time the boys where "free"....I think papa would be smart enough not to include any other person...however, the term "family" is enough to possibly question her.  And who knows what might get spewed with her under the lights!!  Right now every single detail needs to be looked at...bring in the brothers for questioning...not arrest them, but talk to them.

They're all part of a "family"....

Glad you like Kentucky--I live in Louisville. Lexington is a great town--I have lots of family there.

Well that's what I pictured, too. Only if there were more people than just the parents there (i.e. CLOSE family friends, high-up Aruban officials) it would lead to even more confusion about who was family and who was not. Surely Deepak would have known who was related to Joran and who was not out of the conspirators. Mickey wouldn't have, though...which implies Deepak describing the scenario to him and Mickey not really knowing who was who.

Just thinking out loud and not really knowing where I'm going with this, except that saying "family" instead of "parents," and the fact that who was and wasn't a family member was ambiguous, could imply there were more people there than just Joran's parents.

Im sure that when Mickie was still in jail the police pumped him for all he had been told. If he told the family story it must not have been important enough to keep PVDS in jail.    IF he did not relay this info while in jail then I dont think it happened as he now claims. He has an axe to grind plus there are people that would love to get PVDS back in jail.
My opinion.

i could go for a percocet personally...being on computer this long is really not good for back/neck...i know ergonomics...still have ice on shoulders :(

I hear ya! :D She was trying, but he was sticking to what he wanted to say. My shock is how LE didn't get a statement from him.

LOL :lol: For the sake of clarity I have to say I LOVE Nancy---but she does call almost everyone by both names.  :lol:
Actually when Karl did his test, he jumped off a boat and then floated for awhile, and gives a summary of how fast and/or far something could be carried away by the current

Alright, I'm going to tear myself away to get some lunch. Have fun, monkeys!

(dont know if someone gave it to you already)

http://www.irfanview.com/


man, CGI's fried already...

NOT that I know of.  I thought he was just on first 1/2 of greta and i held phone to tv so he could hear... I cracked up big time at the end where he said they all needed to go back to school to learn how to do an investigation...I thought that was all.... THEN there was the second 1/2 and I ran out of international phone minutes.. I'll go 2 store soon.

Anyone listening to TOP 95 right now?

I have no doubt that he is telling what he believe is true.  However it hard to determine even at that time whether or not the VDS family know for sure if Natalee was dead else MJ would not have said that they were hoping Nat would 'show' up in a crackhouse or not.  

It does seem that that is what the suspects were hoping for.  Of course it did not turn out that way and this little convenient lie has them scrambling ..

Why lie?, well you have the initial presumption of last with Nat is guilty...and the true hope that Nat would show up later at a crack house or something... You have Joran sneaking out of his house ..Maybe teh fact that they really did not think anything was wrong till the day after...Oh, how did the new start? I wondering who would have alerted Joran, if this was the case of the day after?

NOT that I know of.  I thought he was just on first 1/2 of greta and i held phone to tv so he could hear... I cracked up big time at the end where he said they all needed to go back to school to learn how to do an investigation...I thought that was all.... THEN there was the second 1/2 and I ran out of international phone minutes.. I'll go 2 store soon.

LOLOL...........sometimes if you don't go down far enough from the previous post, one ends up in the middle of another post. This happens to me all the time, and I just go back and edit it. No problem my friend :D

Yes, I agree. Especially since LE knew that MJ and Deepak were in adjoining cells. Could be they were too busy...didn't think Deepak would be stupid enough to talk...who knows. I know he did make some kind of statement but I guess it was just to the press, not an official one to LE.

Sharon..i just did the same thing..smack in the middle of another post...GRRRR  :oops:

I don't disagree with that opinion at all, Rosalie. Unfortunately, without any knowledge of what information the police extracted (or didn't extract) it is tough to form a solid opinion - on any of the material  :?

Well if you are collecting money to call him, let me know. I'm in!

Yes, but not sure what is going on.. sorry

now i am...in pap though...TRANSLATION !!! :?:

Is there some breaking news on TOP 95?

I don't think I believe all of Mickey John's story. I think Deepak did talk. I think that he did end up apologizing. I think that he did tell him he dropped Joran and Natalee off at Marriott Beach. I don't think the part about the family is true. I can't see a Judge in training, speaking so openly in front of a non-family member, who supposedly had nothing to do with the crime.

Sounds important... like a press conference or something, but I can only get bits and pieces.

They were talking about interrogating NH's old boyfriend or something. Couldn't make it all out.

I"M NOT SHOCKED AT ALL!!!!  WHAT HAS LE DONE RIGHT??? :roll:
also perhaps they conveniently misunderstood what he said if anything...he prob just wanted to get the fk out and talk to his lawyer you know??? I don't know what i would have done in his place...he just says everybody know from the start and he is very surprised this is news.

Top95 is running interrogation of Paul VDS or some dutch dude..

Here's another free site you can use to resize images to avatars. I upload an image, then submit it, then click on the resized image and save the avatar-sized image to my computer.

http://www.gravatar.com/

NH's old boyfriend?!

All I could understand was...

NH...

boyfriend...

McVeay...

interrogation...

And there is also that Joran must have realized that leaving Natalee on a beach alone, even if there were people around, had a very good chance of some sort of unpleasant encounter for her, at the very least.

It could be that no one, not even Paulus, realized the seriousness of what they were doing, because young girls do not disappear with great frequency on Aruba.

If that is the case, then he has "cracked," and admitted to his parents and law enforcement authorities that he is, as Greta puts it, a "cad.," and caused a great many people to suspect that he could also be a murderer, a suspicion for which there is no evidence whatsoever.

Cadhood is not, to my knowledge, a criminal offense on Aruba or in the US, although after this, some may wish to lobby their elected  officials to change that.

emptying change jar..... :lol:

PVDS denies story of pickin up JVDS or Natalee at 4am..HE denies this..but  I think he confirms 11pm pickup...I think dutch is like listening to someone on novacaine eating a hot potato..

I think BOTH...liar and stupid......and I wouldn't think he is off the hook yet either!

BTW...Good Morning Everyone!
Sunny

The timeline for the night Natalee has been disappeared has been discussed and analyzed and picked apart by all of us. It does seem there was not enough time to dispose of a body.

But how about the timeline for the next day?

We know that Joran went to school. What did he do after school? What were he and Deepak doing until the wee hours of the morning? Were they really at the casino? Could they have gone back to the scene of the crime to hide her body?

I wish the MSM would look into Joran and Deepak's activities during the day and evening of the 30th. Greta???

LOLOLOLO>OLOLOLO :lol:

WTF R THEY SAYING?

There is a Sean Michael McVea who was in Natalee's graduating class

Rather than random calls, I think we should set up an official "chat" with him.  Gather the best questions and have him answer them.

I'm off to a meeting will someome email or PM me if there's news?

Thanks.

Wonder if it was said where PVDS was as well!

Nikki, if you did it would be with a SERIOUS Southern drawl!!  :lol:  :lol:

..Joran has been actually accepted to some American school...I do not believe Joran did any harm to this young woman...(Paul in dutch sounds very softspoken...).. (it sounds he is being interview /interrogated by at least 2 people, a woman and a men..).

Our eccentric dutch Uncle...

First degree family relation is a free ticket to perjure or withhold evidence?
Interesting legal concept. Great news for the James Gang, Ma Barker, the Menendez Bros.

SC...how did he get his free pass? Now he gets flowers and a cake?

OK...Lee Harvey and me were shooting pool in Dallas that day....am I a great guy now?

cake please.

Expect to have it wrapped up within the next 24 hours, do ya?

Prosecutor saying there may be more arrests.... just on Fox.

Just to clarify, the stuff I heard initially were BEFORE they went to that interview... so not sure if they were reporting facts or discussing options...

edited to remove everything of value.

Serial killers are usually quiet types.

He may want to rethink coming to an American school.  The welcome mat has been withdrawn I am sure till he straightens this out and with his arrogance, maybe never.

For the first time since Natalee's disappearance, perhaps it's a good thing Aruba doesn't get Fox News.

Sounded important...i have no clue sorry

I will be initially suspicious regarding any new arrests, could be more scapegoats.
Watch for the familys reaction to these possible future arrests.

oh geez...LOL

As much as its good i don't get papiamento??
mickey is probably watching sports.

..back to papiamento on TOP95, the announcer not sure who he is says he believes that natalee is still alive, due to all the searching..militairy, Texas, dogs, volunteer.

Foreign press has assaulted Aruba with Negative press, we are haveing a furious battle, ..no one has found anything..what is left, natalee is still alive or took to Venezuela Columbia, now we are sitting in quandry...Im just thinking radical..one person is missing .. one person, if buried who and where.. 7 suspect are detained..(more damn talk radio.. nothing new I hear)...no class of proof as charge... ( I think its Edmond Croes, the announcer)...I think someone else must have taken her.. 7 suspect, 4 sent to home, 3 are left.... we have 3 suspect, no proof of evidence, what test are there..? no corpse, no witness, no life no death...we are simply back to square one..we are to the point that Natalee must be alive...Maybe they left her at the beach and someone else took her.. this novela or picture is 2 part... the boys took her to the beach I believe this and other people took her.. this dame we hope gets located...many called of different suspicion , my question, is 7 suspect, we wanna know if authorities took declaration of family and chaparone....I doubt we can hold 60 days without evidence..

UMMM, what are you tryin' to say Kerin....LOLOL

Prosecutor saying she won't rule out more arrests.

They are interviewing Joran's and the Kalpoes' friends and others they talked with before they were arrested. Apparently there was a lot of talk.

Brilliant... they think of this NOW?

Uhhhh...yeah, Absolut. Why do you think I went back and edited MY post!  :shock:
STOP doing that!

Here we have a very strange and terrible tale of a father and son going to hell together. It is scanning like the first chapter in a Joseph Conrad, complete with the septic imprint of Dutch Colonialism steeped in the steaming tropics. So far, I hate it.

Yeah I'm on klonopins, and since this case I've been hitting the Klonopin wafers (fast acting)  :lol:

<sigh>   I miss my new monkey...

this board seems like a chat room today.

i heard that as well mishj. he actually said the same thing in two different ways - possibly a language issue.[/quote]

Again, Mickey is from Grenada, a former British colony that speaks ENGLISH ONLY....there was NO language issue.[/quote]

Yes in part I agree....however, the pharasing is often very different....and often times words have different meanings......I worked in JM for 10 years so I know for a fact......

Sunny

Again, Mickey is from Grenada, a former British colony that speaks ENGLISH ONLY....there was NO language issue.[/quote]

Yes in part I agree....however, the pharasing is often very different....and often times words have different meanings......I worked in JM for 10 years so I know for a fact......

Sunny[/quote]

Exactly, Sunny!
FOM...do you know if MJ has access to a computer? Maybe at the cyber cafe?  :twisted:

So no one here cares to discuss today's news...???

Bye bye...