Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

It's so lonely in here.

Can you even get a ground floor room at the HI?

All rooms have sliders to balconies, but I do not see any rooms listed as ground floor.

Unless trees and grass grows on balconies, the room was on the ground floor.

Fox showed them on Greta's show last night.  Natalee's room led right out to the beach...pretty cool.

well, there were trees and sand right outside the door ...  :D

Hey all just home from movies with the kids. Anything new from the search or anymore arrests at all?

Well also here you have a statement of Dash that swears by the fact of a particular detail.  Now in a Aruban interrogation I see a change of story coming up, now is that guilty or innocent? Do you now discount every statement said by such person or do you somehow interject a reason so great that it would cause you to forgive and understand why someone had said something that did not bare out in the light of evidence...

OK, did anyone get confused as I did when Greta was asking Beth about Natalee's stuff?  It appeared to be somewhat packed, and Greta asked her if it had been packed or if she had just "lived out of the suitcase" and Beth confidently said that Natalee packed it - that she was ready to come home.  I thought that Nat's friends assumed that she had stayed out all night or in another room at the hotel and packed it for her?  BHT has been so sharp about some things and I am SURE she is out of her mind by now, but?????




 

No sorry Mom...nothing really.

OK. Here it is. We were talking about Joran taking AP classes because I remembered Anita said it on the Greta interview:

"He graduated with honor, all As and Bs. He did some AP, advanced courses, physics, calculus, AP English."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

Now AP physics he could probably take before his senior year. But AP calc and English are usually senior year courses because the soph & jr. years are three HS years condensed into two and the 3rd is a college course type year.

But someone apparently in the know posted over on the timeline link that Joran's name wasn't on the list of students from the island taking AP exams this year.

Why would Anita lie? Small thing maybe, but weird.

Because anyone taking the AP exams May 2-13 would not have to take final exams at the school (ISA) June 3-8. They automatically were exempt.
So Joran probably did get preferential treatment. The polis probably didn't want to pick him up because he HAD to take all his exams or he wouldn't graduate. And then he wouldn't be able to go to his Florida college in the fall.
The Aruban police let valuable time and evidence slip away because they didn't want to mess up Joran's college chances and his graduation.

Thanks Kerin! How frustrating!!! If were this frustrated I feel so sorry for how natalees mother and father must feel.

..actually...if I remember correctly..Natalee's room led out onto sand. One would suppose that eventually you could get to the beach but, as others have said, you could not tell if access from there was blocked or not. I know "I" didnt see the water last night. And I dont see why this is such a prevalent issue.

Good!!! What college in Florida???

This is what Anita vd Sloot said in the interview with Greta:

"he [Joran] went on with his exams, and he was a normal teenager. He was under pressure. He knew that things were wrong, but — and the girl was missing. But he repeated, She will appear somewhere. And if she does, I'll kick her butt in front of her mom..."

Note, Joran tells her IF she does [appear].

He wasn't so sure she would appear again. That's telling.

OK. Asking again because I keep hoping to find someone who remembers about Joran playing in a poker tournament at the HI casino with some MB kids. Joran came in 4th. I can't find this. Does anyone remember this or the hours of the tourny? It went on like 3 hours or more.

There were 130 students on that trip.  I am sure not ALL of them had a ground floor room with a slider.  Dash said the rooms did not have a door out to the beach, swore by it, but MAYBE, just maybe she was talking about from her experience.  Maybe her room did not have a slider out to the beach.  Maybe her room was an inside room or an upstairs room.  From her experience there were not sliders out to the beach.  Maybe Nat and her group paid a little extra and Dash didn't know it.  But let's please not accuse her of not telling the truth.  She told the truth as she knew it.

hey kerin...i was swingin on a vine and went smaaac into tree...still dizzy
did i miss anything???
what time did wiz quit last night?
famous last words?

are pm's disabled again?

Yes, they were supposed to have been since around 12:30, at some point a change was made and they popped back on.

They are currently disabled.

thanks!

no FOM...nothing missed. Slow thanks to our buddy the "CGI errors". I am not sure when Mr. Wiz left but I am curious to see what he has to say tonight!  :lol:

St. Leo College

For some reason absolut i think u must sound like Arnold Shwartzenager...
 :wink:

You had CGI errors in the middle of the night?

They don't think it's foul play, but they don't say what they do think it is? The ship even turned around to look for her some 30 mi off the coast of Cozumel......

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3241194

NO....LOL (keep up, would 'ya, Absolut?) It was a 2 part answer to a 2 part question.

FOM has missed nothing in the last hour or so..except the CGI errors.
AND
I am not sure when Wiz left last night!  :shock:

We were getting them till about 10:30 eastern far as I know

Geez, It's taken me FOREVER to get on this afternoon.

Hiya Monkeys! This CGI stuff is crazy! But I am having to go now :(

No news on the search I take it??

If you read between the lines, it is pretty clear that it is suicide.

Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.

For the official record:

We have talked many times with Dash. She is a teenager going through a very very traumatic experience.

Please stop nitpicking every comment and statement she has made, as she is doing the best she can from a very difficult memory.

Thanks

Tom

This was noted in WW's e-mail...

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=223

You really think Shango is MC????  Just curious.

yes, traffic is kicking . we are moving the forum over to a new server either late night on early morning.

This should help the load

Tom

It fits.  She walks in all circles.  Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case.  Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.

You do not have to take AP exams when you take AP classes!!!  Both of my sons - 4.20 students - took several AP classes their senior year and did not take AP exams - especially since Joran was getting a full ride at college - he did not need to be in any hurry to buypass classes - which is the reason you sometimes take the AP tests so you can skip classes in college

i realize that most of you on here have totally burnt this young man at the stake before he has been convicted - but let us be fair as to what we charge him with - taking or not taking AP exams should not be one of these things!

Thank you Tom.

I think what we were all trying to get at here is that he DID take some exams.  Finals were the week of the 6th, not the week that Natalee went missing as some have said.  It has been said that he "was at school the following day on time and aced his exams".  We were all trying to figure out if these people were even talking about the same day as finals were the week after not the week of the incident.  Some speculated that maybe it was his AP exams he took the week of the incident which would explain why people continue to say "he was at school that day, everything fine, aced his exams".  But, according to all schedules, even AP's were not the week Natalee went missing, finals were the week following, so the question is why is everything using that whole "just fine, aced exams" as some sort of testament to how he could not have killed Natalee the night before?

Some schools require you to take the exams to pass the class, especially if they are picking up the tab for the tests.  Might have been the same at Joran's school.

What's up with Shango?  I did a search to read the posts, but nothing showed up.  What did this person say?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1193

Wow...nothing...are those crickets?

Shango messages are on the front page of this Blog and not in the Forum.

NOVA (Dutch TV): it was NOT an interview with Jan van der Straaten, it was an interview with the headprosecutor Karin Janssen! She felt necessary to react on yesterday's Nova-interview with Paul and anita van der Sloot.

- Paul's frustrated the investigation from the beginning. On Dutch TV, Paul said he only explained the procedure to the 3 guys. Karin "cowboy" Janssen is sure that he did more than that. He also explained the boys that no body means no case. That's why the 3 suspects are not talking.
And Karin also said something Paul told a friend to do something. I missed that part.  :(  
- Karin defends the interrogation techniques that they use. Everything is on tape. In the trial they have to show the judge the tapes. of course they are putting a lot of pressure on the suspects, but it's not like they are abusing them.
- Karin still thinks the investigation is in a crucial phase. They are still investigating what really happened in the days after May 30. Communation between the 3 guys and their friends. family, etc.
- Karin has a great team. 20 investigators, 4 FBI agents and a Dutch team. She has nothing to complain. This case could be solved with this team. The problem is not the team, the problem is that the 3 guys don't tell the truth/changing stories.
- MONDAY the judge-commisioner will decide whether or not to prolong the detention of the 3 suspects.

I'm sure she said mro in the interview....but this is all that I can remember... 8)

Where is the news coming from that Mariaine Croes has been REPLACED as media rep. for the prosecution? That has shown up on some of the blog posts and now all of a sudden it is here. Where did this come from?

I second that.  Dash and every kid on that trip has their own version of what happened FROM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE.  Anyone here who has an ounce of information on doing interrogations KNOWS a group like this has various information to give...depending on their perspective and where they were at the time, etc.  To continue this BS going after these kids, especially with obvious lack of understanding of the tenants of Investigation 101...is absolutely wrong...and only speaks to the "state" of the person/people doing so.

I personally trust that the FBI got this all correct.  They would NEVER make an assumption based on one or two interviews from the teens.  The FBI knows that stories are different...and NOT because the kids are lying.

I have been so pained by the attacks on these kids.  Again, those doing it IMO have deep seated personal anger NOT related to this case.

Please find some compassion or kindness...or leave it alone!

Today, I picked up my mail and was moved to tears as I found a Natalee bracelet mailed to me from one of the kids who used to come here.  She didn't ask for money, but thought I cared enough to have a bracelet.  Receiving it, and the kindness of the person who sent it meant the world to me.

Edited to add:  The kind of people going after these kids continually are the same kind who find it fun to harass waitresses and taxi cab drivers...they are a breed unto their own...their lives are so "small" they find little pleasures in going after the little people.

I will NOT apologize for being so blunt, it's up to tough old broads like me to tell it like it is!!!  Even though I'm not all that old.

Here for starters...
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1199

What does this police investigation tell us?
I have been holding an opinion that Aruba LE knows the basic structure of the crime. Did anyone get a good photo of Joran's face, forearms etc. during perp walk? Any visible marks?
How could LE release PVDS without signaling to Joran they had no evidence sufficient to covict? Did not this increase Joran resolve to stonewall? I never thought the Aruba LE stupid, so they must have some good indications, but that judge burned 'em bad.

This tough old broad heartily agrees with you!!

pam

When GVS asked if Natalee unpacked or lived out of her suitcase, Beth said, she did not know about that, she only knew Natalee had packed and was ready to come home.

Kudos to Tom and  and old broads!  LOL....I agree with everthing you said.  I'd love to see less bashing altogether.....I can't imagine why Dash or Arubagirl or any of the Arubans, or the Dutch persons that grace this board would even want to...but I for one and very glad they do.  They do put up with a lot of unnecessary nastiness.....they are all a lot more gracious, tolorant and understanding than some here......JMO, Sunny

Right dragon! Or perhaps she knew the doors locked from the inside, and could not be accessed from the beach side.

[
I second that.  Dash and every kid on that trip has their own version of what happened FROM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE.  Anyone here who has an ounce of information on doing interrogations KNOWS a group like this has various information to give...depending on their perspective and where they were at the time, etc.  To continue this BS going after these kids, especially with obvious lack of understanding of the tenants of Investigation 101...is absolutely wrong...and only speaks to the "state" of the person/people doing so.

I personally trust that the FBI got this all correct.  They would NEVER make an assumption based on one or two interviews from the teens.  The FBI knows that stories are different...and NOT because the kids are lying.

I have been so pained by the attacks on these kids.  Again, those doing it IMO have deep seated personal anger NOT related to this case.

Please find some compassion or kindness...or leave it alone!

Today, I picked up my mail and was moved to tears as I found a Natalee bracelet mailed to me from one of the kids who used to come here.  She didn't ask for money, but thought I cared enough to have a bracelet.  Receiving it, and the kindness of the person who sent it meant the world to me.

Edited to add:  The kind of people going after these kids continually are the same kind who find it fun to harass waitresses and taxi cab drivers...they are a breed unto their own...their lives are so "small" they find little pleasures in going after the little people.

I will NOT apologize for being so blunt, it's up to tough old broads like me to tell it like it is!!!  Even though I'm not all that old.[/quote]

Now I'm totally not into attacking these kids but why are their statements allowed to be confusing and mixed up, but we are CRUCIFYING a kid and his friends and family down in Aruba for doing the exact same thing?

I've heard more kids from this trip contradict themselves on tv, I've heard the girl's mother change her story a few times too. Yet noone is questioning the heck out of them (unless maybe they are and we just don't know it).

What's good for one should be good for the other. It's the only way to make sense out of this whole thing and find this poor girl.

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050618.html

Excerpt:  

Bearman said the group also was told that Holloway's friends had seen the same teenager in the casino at the hotel where they were staying.

With help from some locals, Holloway's mother and the others determined the youth had been in the casino playing in a Texas Hold 'Em poker tournament, according to Bearman.

Sign in sheet

Players had to sign in, she said, and that gave them a name and initial: Joran V.

"After talking to enough people, we were able to deduce that it was Joran van der Sloot," she said. "Once we got the name we were able to track the address through people and we got the police. They escorted us and we went straight to the house."

Van der Sloot's father, Aruban judge-in-training Paul van der Sloot, said his son was out playing poker when the group first arrived at the house around 1 a.m., Bearman said. Still accompanied by police, the group went to a couple of places looking for van der Sloot before returning to the father's house and finding Joran van der Sloot there with one of the two Surinamese brothers who later were held, she said.

"Basically we interrogated him," Bearman said. "He never denied being with her."

Van der Sloot described dancing with Holloway at the bar and said "she wanted to go with me" at closing time, according to Bearman.

Van der Sloot claimed he left Holloway outside the Holiday Inn resort where the group was staying after they took a late-night trip to a scenic lighthouse, Bearman said, and he even accompanied the family to the hotel to show them the exact spot where she was dropped off.

His story didn't add up, though, according to Bearman.

"We started pressing him on that because we had students who were in the lobby until 5 a.m., and she never arrived," she said.

Questioning

While Aruban police were present during the questioning of van der Sloot, which lasted until about 3 a.m., officers left the talking to Holloway's family until things began to get "heated," Bearman said.

But didn't the kids from the trip or the chaperones or someone say that they packed her stuff?

I am not sure it matters, I was just curious for a scenario.

Sadly based on what the FBI and all say, it sounds like a suicide.

Nope. You're wrong. You are trying to compare apples to oranges.  It just doesn't work.  The people you accuse of changing their stories aren't the ones last seen with Natalee, they aren't in jail, they didn't say they left Natalee at the beach...or first that they took her back to the hotel. They're in trauma and feeling deep loss...look that up...it's in the books.

These kids took a trip to Aruba...their friend is missing.  Period. End of story.

AND, I hate to tell you but you are NOT the FBI...you are not in a position to do professional interrogations in a fair and balanced fashion.

If there's one piece of evidence that Natalee's family or friends are somehow involved in this...Go for it....until then understand and know what you're talking about before making gross assumptions.

excerpt from purported deepak emain on poker:  

The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ).

Schout bij nacht Karel Doorman's legendarische laatste woorden toen hij de geallieerde vloot de Java zee instuurde om de Japanse overmacht te confronteren en suicidaal de ondergang tegemoet te varen om de vaderlandsche eer te verdedigen

wow wouldn't that be something if it was true.
it seems that ANYTHING is possbile in Aruba these days.

I Salute her if it was...
The orig Shang, Sim and Aem knew far too many local details
to be totally fake. They basically supported the theory of a cover up,
which many happen to agree with. including me.


even the Security guard pinned in the beginning said on Fox to fire the chief.

they have replaced the judge twice right?
and they have never even considered replacing or importing a new chief investigator after HE screwed up in the beginning...   weird eh?
where's the big gun Hague investigator to come in and clean up this mess?

No, not really.  The others students on the trip and Natalee's mother are not suspects in her disappearance by virtue of not having been the last people known to have seen her before she vanished from the face of the earth.

"What's good for one... " might be the most illogical opinion I've seen expressed in this case.

Excuse me Nancy Drew, but I never claimed to be the FBI...but I do believe things should be looked at in a fair and balanced fashion, unlike yourself. I'm assuming from your statment that is what you are trying to say?

I never even implied yet alone stated I thought her family was involved in her disappearance, however I DO NOT agree with the way they are torturing another family based on their intuitions. Maybe they have facts that we don't know about, but that is not coming across the newswire. So until it does, why shouldn't EVERY single statement or person involved in this be scrutinized?

And I highly doubt that my stating the obvious (their statements have changed on many occasion) is me making gross assumptions. I'm just stating what the news stations report. What it means...is not my job to figure out.

Because there is a HUGE difference in one of the other students saying "There were not doors that opened to the beach" because maybe her room didn't have one or maybe the door opened to the outside of the hotel but certainly not right out to the "beach" and were locked from the inside, not accessable from the outside and a young man being that last person seen with a missing girl out and out telling completely false stories about what he did with her only to protect himself.  HUGE difference in my book.  One may be as simple as not having the same layout room or maybe small things attributed to a memory of events that aren't real clear but the other is simply something that can't be a simple mistake or memory loss.  How on earth do you forget that you didn't drop someone off at a hotel?  How do you mistakenly say that the brothers dropped you off at home and left with Natalee back to the hotel when that is no where close to the truth?  How do you just forget that someone left you alone on the beach with a beautiful young woman in the middle of the night or that Satish drove you home after you left her on the beach or that you walked 40 minutes home?  There is a HUGE difference.

Umm... because he was the last one seen with her and he's done nothing but lie. That would be my guess for crucifying him.

And name one point where the kids or Beth have contradicted themselves.

That's kind of funny (not ha ha funny) because in Greta's interview with BHT last nite in her hotel room, BHT told Greta she had her DL and $50. She also said that Natalee did not have a credit card.
BTW we all know about the room and the door now so why are we arguing about it?

You want to repeat this in English.  The translator doesn't make any sense!

Schout at night Karel Doorman's legendary last words then he the allied fleet the Java sent in sea to face the perdition Japanese supremacy and suicidaal to sail to defend honour the vaderlandsche

Am I the only one feeling like this case is never going to be solved?  I hope that's not  the case, but it's not looking good.

It is your job to know what you're talking about.  Joran's family is being tortured?  That's what happens when you don't spit out the truth about a missing person...when you were the last person on this earth to be seen with her...that's reality.  Joran is in jail for good reason.  He may not stay there.  But, the fact remains, given the evidence he was the last person to see her alive.

I feel bad for the others in his family, but this is life.

Ok, let me clarify, when I said "what's good for one..." I meant that why are we holding the VDS to this high standard that they are NOT allowed to misspeak, say something wrong, sweat too much etc when we allow the same to happen to the family and friends and think nothing of it.

Do you really believe the VDS family is not under the same amount of enormous pressure that the Holloway family is? I for one do not. It's a different situation for each, same amount of stress and pressure.

And please...find me a young teenage boy who doesn't lie!

I say we all wait for the evidence to come out before hanging this kid. So far, he's committed the absolute perfect crime. Pretty amazing for a teenager dont you think? I for one don't think he's THAT perfect.

Aruba case is still a major story in US media, and not only in terms of tv minutes devoted and words printed. It ranks even higher when one tallies the "stories about the story," which are now literally everywhere in cyberspace and elsewhere.

I've searched, nearly fruitlessly, for editors/commentators/bloggers who devote serious argumentation to the case FOR more coverage. Reminds me of the time during Lewinsky-gate when press-about-the-press eclipsed the original piece, no pun intended. It's hard to measure objectively, but I think Aruba story has reached, or is about to reach, critical mass in this respect. Consider:

Kevin Craver's listing of those who say "end it," (coverage), at http://www.rathergate.com/?p=898

Arianna Huffington says "just say NO-ruba" on the topic, advising a cold-turkey treatment. This is wothy of closer inspection, given Arianna's high tolerance for non-news news. Read at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/arianna-huffington/just-say-noruba_2928.html

Weighing in for the second time, Michelle Malkin discusses the story about the story at http://michellemalkin.com/archives/002875.htm

Rather-gate's original piece, "End It," is at http://www.rathergate.com/?p=893

Educational reading, indeed, for many who've ingested nothing but Arubanews/MPWW for the last month. At the risk of offending those who are emotionally tied to this case, whether out of boredom or psychopathy or both, I decided to check in and provide some perspective. Granted, learning about opinions other than one's own can in some cases be disturbing, so I advise you to be careful, read slowly, and be ready for diverse thought.

Sincerely,

Martin Connahey

In response to the question about who packed Natalee's things (can't remember who asked that...) I am pretty sure that Dash told us early on that they were all packed to go home before they went out because they had to get up early for the flight.  So, Natalee would have packed her things sometime that day and been ready to leave in the morning knowing that they would be out late that night.

I have written a short summary of what headprosecutor Karin Janssen said on NOVA (go to page 4).

This is also one of the interesting details of that interview. I don't have time to translate this article. But I'm sure there are more people here that understands Dutch.  8)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
laatst gewijzigd: 29-06-2005   23:46
'Vader gaf Joran verklaringen door'
De vader van Joran van der S. heeft de verklaringen van de vrienden van Joran doorgespeeld aan zijn zoon. Een vertegenwoordiger van het Arubaanse OM zei dat in NOVA.
Zonder lijk geen zaak
Joran zit op Aruba vast in verband met de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse scholiere Natalee Holloway. Paul van der S. zei volgens het OM ook tegen die vrienden, twee broers, dat de politie zonder het lijk van de scholiere geen zaak tegen hen heeft.

Procedure
Van der S. zei dinsdag nog in NOVA dat hij de vrienden van zijn zoon alleen maar heeft uitgelegd wat de procedure was als zij zouden worden gearresteerd. De twee jongens zitten intussen ook vast.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: RTL Nieuws

I know quite well what I'm talking about. I watch FOX NEWS (though I'm ashamed to admit it) just like everyone else here.

The perfect crime in Aruba seems to be easy.  Kill someone, make sure the body is never found then don't say a word for 116 days.  No Body, No Crime.

I was under the understanding that Natalee shared a room with other friends. Does anyone know if any of these girls slept in Natalee's room the night she disappeared?

All I hope is they find the girl alive somewhere, and that other parents and kids learn from this. There is NO reason to send your 18 year old KIDS to a foreign country to drink and party. And girls...please be more careful who you hang out with or go off with.

LEARN from this tragedy. Please!

Are you saying that if a body is found on day 117, you cannot be charged?   :shock:

Doorman became a Dutch maritime icon, because of his last words to the fleet: "Ik val aan, volg mij!" (I am attacking, follow me). In reality he only issued the command All ships follow me to prevent confusion when the damaged HMS Exeter sailed back to harbor on its own. Doorman just wanted to indicate that his ships should not follow the Exeter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Doorman

There's one big difference, they know where their son is.

Wow! Didn't realize you had the inside track! How are you so sure she has been killed?? Why would you even say things like that?

Karen Jannsen interview on Dan Abrams Now

Dan Abrhams  show on MSNBC has info from the Aruban prosecutor on his show right now (East Coast)

FM

Torturing the VDS fam? I wou1d do the same thing had I been her Mom. None of us know exact1y what was said b/c none of us were there . A1ot of what BHT is going on is mother1y intuition, and what she has seen w/ her own eyes.... Torturing? I dont think so. Torture is what Beth faces 24/7 whie Joran keeps changing his story.

Note: using 1 b/c there is sudden1y something wrong w/ one of my keys
:( :cry:

Thanks  :D  But I'm still scratching my head, lol :lol:

Now Nancy...finish reading my whole sentence.....I said it's a DIFFERENT situation for each.

And their son is about to lose the rest of his life over something that NOONE has proof he did. No...that wouldn't be a cause for stress if he were your son right?? Certainly would be for me. I'd be out of my mind.

Can you fill us in?  I can't watch right now.  The kids have to have their turn with the TV so I get it for Greta!!  LOL.

Amen!  And that is a HUGE difference.

Dittos to you phl. Hang in there.

-MC

My point is, since he didn't take the AP exams, he HAD to take the finals from Friday June 3-Wed. June 8. He was arrested the morning of the 9th.
The police let valuable time and critical evidence slip through their fingers because, I believe, they didn't want to hurt their friend's son's chances of attending college in the fall. He HAD to graduate to attend college. He COULDN'T graduate if he missed any of his finals from June 3-8.
So the police compromised a kidnapping investigation because they didn't want to mess up poor little Joran's finals' schedule.

I think that is lousy police/detective work. You don't work a kidnapping investigation where time is critically important around a suspect's exam schedule. And yet it appears that's exactly what they did.

I dont think this crime was a perfect crime, but anyone can clean up evidence when your given over a week to do so.
I for one try hard to stay out of the conversations that crucify anyone, but have seen some rather harsh judgements on the board also. The fact is though you have a 17 yr old boy, who was by all accounts and purposes was given alot of leeway in his life. He has changed his story, more then once. He lied straight face to Natalees parents about where he last saw her. Really, things dont add up for him. If he is lying for some other reason, then maybe itll come out. Overall though I think we can all admit this is rather strange behavior for an innocent person. I honestly can care less how much his dad sweats on TV, that tells me nothing. However the lack of eye contact I noticed while giving interviews tells more IMO. I really hope they find Natalee, because then all these endless arguments might be answered by evidence.

Jansen is saying they have no specific proof that Natalee is dead, no specific evidence. She says investigation is not at an impasse. She says they are looking carefully at the communications between the 3 boys now - text messages, etc.

I second that Amen. Atleast they can talk to their son. Even if as his mother said its only ten min a day or at a time. Thats ten minutes more then Natalees parents have.

Wow..  prosecutor says they have the content of text messaging and chat sessions  from the suspects.

Good, maybe now we'll get somewhere!

You're missing the main point here.

Sure, I can understand the frustration with people who are not "emotionally tied" to this case, and would like the focus of the MSM to be on news more "relevant" to today's political landscape.  But, try and look at it from the missing girl's family for a second...

I think the main reason there is any real movement by the Aruban authorities in their efforts to find Natalee is the pressure applied by the American media.  Without the Fox News' of the world, this case would be treated as just another American tourist gone missing, and not a second glance would be made.  If you could indulge is for a second, why isn't this case news worthy again??

What it all boils down to is a simple matter of supply and demand.  There must be a good reason this case has captured the imagination of not only the American public, but the public of the world at large.

Just my 2 cents,

Strike

I would not get too excited about Shango. Nothing in those posts says anything that has not been said in plain language or hinted at on this and other boards; specifically that allowing the investigation to go down certain roads could run into problems with high-dollar business activity, international in both scope and political sensitivity.

Prosecutor says PVDS confirms he told the boys 'no body, no charges' (or words to that effect.)  Legal conflict seems to be is that more than basic legal advice?

Jansen says it makes sense to wait to arrest so you have evidence to question about. She is not under the impression that time was lost or evidence was lost during that time.

Speaking about Paulus - she said that Paulus gave some legal advice, she questions whether he gave them additional advice beyond that - such as no body, no case. Paulus obstructed case by doing this in her opinion. She says he confirmed that.

Do you consider the father a suspect she is asked - No we did not believe he was a suspect but she is disappointed that Paulus was released.

Asked what happens with no body - she says not wise to discuss this in public, it may take not days but weeks to complete investigation.

This is from the international school webside.  Looks like they stagger their ap classes.

I know the one I will be teaching this fall is English Language and it is a class for JUNIORS.

It is possible that Joran either elected not to take the ap exams OR he might have taken AP English as a junior.

WHOA!  For real?  PVDS told the boys "no body, no charges"????
Now, why would he say that unless the boys are involved with something sinister?

The perfect crime in Aruba seems to be easy.  Kill someone, make sure the body is never found then don't say a word for 116 days.  No Body, No Crime.[/quote]

Wow! Didn't realize you had the inside track! How are you so sure she has been killed?? Why would you even say things like that?[/quote]


Prosecutor says PVDS confirms he told the boys 'no body, no charges'

It doesn't get much clearer than that.

Translation


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
laatst gewijzigd: 29-06-2005 23:46

'Vader gaf Joran verklaringen door'
father reported on statements

De vader van Joran van der S. heeft de verklaringen van de vrienden van Joran doorgespeeld aan zijn zoon. Een vertegenwoordiger van het Een vertegenwoordiger van hetArubaanse OM zei dat in NOVA.

the father of joran v/d/ sloot told his son about the statements of his two friends, according to a prosecution representative.  

Zonder lijk geen zaak
No body no case

Joran zit op Aruba vast in verband met de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse scholiere Natalee Holloway. Paul van der S. zei volgens het OM ook tegen die vrienden, twee broers, dat de politie zonder het lijk van de scholiere geen zaak tegen hen heeft.

joran is in jail in aruba in connection with the disappearance of NH.  P v/d S according to the prosecutor told the two friends that without a body the police have no case against them  

Procedure
Procedure

Van der S. zei dinsdag nog in NOVA dat hij de vrienden van zijn zoon alleen maar heeft uitgelegd wat de procedure was als zij zouden worden gearresteerd. De twee jongens zitten intussen ook vast.

v/d S said tuesday on Nova the he only laid out to the his son's friends  the prodedure if they were arrested.  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
interview with chief prosecutor on abrams right now

That in itself proves some knowledge on his part and some guilt on theirs.  Just my opinion, of course.  But there are a lot of things being said and done in this case the people who are innocent just don't normally say or do.

OK, Abrhams just summarized prosecutor interview.  Lots of stuff!
1.  No confessions
2.   They have Text messages and emails  content
3.  PVDS told the boys 'no body, no charges' bay that was NOT th eonly reason they arrested him  --  that he is also considered a suspect in NH disappearance!!!!!  
4.  They have no crime scene.

This interview on ABRAMS is an AMAZING interview...more info than we've had in a long time!!!!

Turn it on!!! They're going to play more.

To me, this is a huge revelation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why did he tell the boys No body, no charges????????????????

I was thinking about this this afternoon........I think that more people are involved in this perhaps a closer, more broad look at the c phone records will offer a clue.  I think Joran Van der S surely has more buddies than thease other fellows we already know about. Could take some time to sift through all that info. to include days if not many weeks prior to the dissapearance.  I keep sensing that something is missing, like those two other adults mentioned to being at the M beach location could very well be associated to the alledged and, that their role may have been to dispose of the body or participated in her being held captive either on or off the island.

To put it bluntly, this case is *ucked!!!

And Daddy is the mastermind.

She said he was NOT brought in for obstruction BUT AS A SUSPECT!!!!

I'm glad we're finally getting this type of info, along with Paulus allegedly saying no body, no crime.  But isn't this the type of info we have wanted all along and been told that NO info can be released b/c it interferes with the aruban legal process???

Boy, isn't that the truth.  Yes, she says he admits he told the boys that.

This interview was the most new info I've seen in a week.   She says she did this interview so Americans can get to know her a little better, maybe have some confidence in her?  

 I think there is more coming up, I will let you know.

Cuz' it's the honest truth, that's way...AND, HE ADMITTED HE TOLD THE BOYS THAT!!!  What a creep.

Discussions with an expert on Abrams now ... expert finds Jansens comment that there is no specific evidence of a crime important.

On the no body, no case - look, if the boys sat down with Paulus and discussed what might happen next, what the law is, what they should say - Paulus could have said "tell the truth" and then the boys say "but what if she doesn't turn up?" - they could be worried they would be blamed if no one finds her - not just worried because they did something but worried if she doesn't suddenly turn up and so she's not around to clear them -in which case Paulus would tell them no body no case.

We really have to be careful about interpretting comments after the fact on all sides.

marianne replaced or jansen just doing a little pr work beyond what she has allowed marianne to do very well?  i hope marianne is not gone for good.  jansen needed to do this but she can't do it every day.

OK...  new segment of interview on on now....

Hello all! ((((Hugs)))

I have missed you guys! I have much reading to catch up on!  :wink:

If there was something important  in that segment, it went right over my head.  Just that PVDS obstructed or slowed down the investigation.  I think that is all there is to the interview.  Nice to have some new info!

How did your surgery go CaliGirl?  Hope you are mending well!  :D

Expert is Theodore Simon btw, - a defense attorney who has worked in Aruba.

Abrams says "all they have on Dad is what in the states we'd call it legal advice" and says "they don't have much on Dad."

Simon says "part of the info from Mickey Johns also suggests that the boys suspected Natalee would turn up in a few days"

hi cali we really did miss you.  this place was not the same in your absence.

It went well, thank you for asking! .. pain free so far with exception of where the surgery was lol Hopefully I will able to monkey around more lol

CALIGIRL~
Hi, hope you are feeling better!  Here's some new news:

Innocent of what, though? Just for the sake of argument, let's assume that Deepak and Joran are telling the truth. As soon as they realized Natalee did not show up, they might all feel some guilt.

Deepak, for dropping her off with Joran, perhaps when he knew that one or both of them were under the influence of alcohol and/or recreational drugs, Joran because he left her alone on a beach, whether there were people there or not, that is not only a despicable thing to do, but even a 17 year old boy would know that chances are, she is going to have some unpleasantness, at the very least.

But, once again, young girls do not disappear often on Aruba. When you are young, you tend to think in terms of what usually happens.

Paulus, on the other hand, is older. He is more likely to be thinking of contingencies, even though it would be unusual for someone to kill a tourist, Paulus would know that you can't rule anything out, and by the time of the conversation, the boys themselves might be getting scared that "something bad" had happened to Natalee, and expressed this what-if, to which Paulus would tell them no body, no charges.

His saying that does not prove that they killed her, or that he knew that they did, only that the possibility that someone might have was being considered.

Aruban attorney on Abrams says it is important that Prosecutor says there is no evidence that crime was commited, there is suspicion that crime was commited but no proof. He also says that PVDS was telling them what the legal proceedure was after watching PVDS interview on Dutch tv.

Aww thank you Inquitos!

I really did miss you guys! I had withdrawls! lmao

Thanks for your response Thirdstrike. To look at this story fr girl's family's perspective, which is a lot of what goes on at Scaredmondeys, is indeed informative and relevant, but not objective. That is the point of Malkin's post (and most of those others I listed).

Does that means Aruba story is not important? Of course not. I'm merely pointing to the (now) tons of press about how it is being covered out of proportion compared to other news, which is certainly a valid avenue of inquiry. Aruba: Newsworthy, yes. Worthy of the billions of words which have been devoted to it, likely not.

One could put your question, Thirdstrike, in another way: How does the parent of a recently-killed soldier feel about the coverage of Aruba's missing-person case? The subjective positon could be endlessly switched to include other victims and families of victims, many of whom would say that this case is over-reported. The main point of my post (which listed the links) was to get that perspective into the stream of discussion here.

Again, thanks for your thoughtful and considerate response/inquiry. (sometimes "thoughtful" and "considerate" get short shrift on this board, thus your post is truly appreciated).

Dittos.
--MC

Isn't this weird?  Another mystery. I am trying to figure out the shango thing out. I found on the Main Monkey page

Hey you!!! How are you feeling?  Everything okay?

Abrams is saying that what Paulus did was just what criminal defence lawyers do all the time here in the US and though it is frustrating for the prosecutor and to Natalee's family but is not illegal. Abrams also finds his waiver of the right not to testify against his son and that he also waived his right to not testify against himself.

Ted Simon is saying this is important - means that PVDS apparently does not know anything that is illegal. It does not mean tht the boys are guilty or innocent.

I wasn't too shocked when I heard he and Steve were set free.

What bothers me most about this situation is no one can get rid of every speck of evidence. Blood, if any, doesn't just clean up and go away. There is always the tiniest piece of evidence left behind. I am baffled by not one agency, Aruban, FBI, Equusearch, etc able to find something. (then again, I go back to...are we allowed to know?)

Or, very cleverly wants it to appear that way :shock:

I am good, sore, but good! lol

:::keeping her fingers crossed::::

ALTHOUGH,  the prosecutor made it clear she believes he went beyond giving the boys legal advice...she believes he did obstruct justice.

Hey Cali~Girl.. welcome back chicky!!!
Well.. I have been away from my PC for hours.. and I have read a little.. and this is the first time I think I have actually asked this question myself.. lol
Any new news??? I wasnt around the tv.. and can say I havnt read all posts since I left at 1 this afternoon..  Any info is DEEPLY apprecaited!!

I disagree with whoever said this interview was really not much.

It's the first time the prosecution has shared anything about the investigation.  Basically they don't have much, and it could take weeks to gather more information, etc., she believes the father obstructed justice, he was brought in not due to that but as a suspect in the case.

There is more and a study of the transcript is necessary.  IMO it's a bombshell interview.

Well isn't it easy to say "No body, no crime" if YOU helped cover for the crime???

{{{{{{{{{{{CALI}}}}}}}}}}}} My partner in crime!!!

How are you, girl??

If daddy is the mastermind then it is no wonder he was turned down for the judge position for the HI story is not a well thought out alibi.  More like a story hastily made up by 3 boys with the collective intelligence of steve is closed who, we are lead to believe, provided an imaginary alibi to police, without having even been asked by the suspects, because he wanted to meet sixpak.

I don't like this at all.  It gives me the chills....

CaliGirl!!!!
Welcome back.  You doing OK?  Missed you too!!!   :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

well I did save a bunch on my car insurance  :wink:
AND
PVDS gives lots of free legal advice!

No body No crime---this was told to joran? How would dad know to even say this if no crime had been committed.  :shock:

Nancy it appears this prosecutor is willing to give alot more details.  Was this interview shown on fox?  and if so who gave the interview.

Id like to read it and see what i get out of it.

Unfortunately for her, she gave her theory a shot before a court of law and was turned down.  Now she should go back to concentrating on gathering what she does not have after a month of looking:  

a crime
evidence of a crime
evidence that the suspects committed the crime

(((((Kerin)))))) Missed ya girl!

Exactly what I was thinking!!!!!  And if no crime was committed then they WOULDN'T need the advice!

Cali, I had to use our "secret lingo" on kids in your absence. Needless to say I was thrown out of a few local hot spots.  :oops:

ROFLMAO.. I would have paid money to see that!

Cali!!!

Good to see you back and glad it went well.

One of the Fox "experts" today reminded the viewing audience that had this occured in the US, in order to arrest anyone for murder in this case, it would be necessary to have evidence of probable cause that the individual had killed her.

THanks Coco Lausa and everyone!!!  :D  :D

LMAO.. thanks for the update Kerin..!!!
I just read that poem.. yikes.. creepy..
Sorry.. had dealing of my own today with my son for hours... ugh!

http://www.novatv.nl/


Vader Paul van der Sloot: 'Geen ljik, geen zaak'
Het Openbaar Ministerie van Aruba beschuldigt de vader van Yoran van der Sloot ervan dat hij het onderzoek naar de betrokkenheid van zijn zoon bij de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway ernstig heeft gefrustreerd.

In de NOVA uitzending van gisteren, dinsdag 28 juni, heeft vader Paul van der Sloot verklaard dat hij zijn zoon en diens vrienden alleen de procedure heeft uitgelegd om te voorkomen dat ze in paniek zouden raken.

Hoofdofficier van justitie Karin Janssen verklaart in NOVA dat "die aanwijzingen van vader verdergaan dan hoe de procedure er uit ziet. Er is vast komen te staan dat reeds enkele dagen na de verdwijning de vader met de jongens spreekt over het gegeven dat er zonder lijk geen zaak zou zijn."

De ouders hebben volgens Janssen een vriend die door de politie was verhoord, benaderd, om bij hun thuis te komen vertellen wat hij bij de politie had verklaard. Dezelfde avond is de inhoud van die verklaring door de advocaat van Yoran aan hem meegedeeld. Dat is op zijn zachtst gezegd nogal storend voor het onderzoek, aldus officier van justitie Janssen in NOVA.

Guys, I will be the last one here to bash anyone for their opinion.  I promise you that, unless of course it is aimed at Dash or Natalee who are completely innocent in what has heppened here (unless you believe Natalee ran away and you have every right to believe that too).  I personally still believe that this very much comes down to Joran, secondly of course Deepak and Satish and somewhere in there Papa VDS.  From where I come from, where and how I was raised, where my values and my beliefs fall, there was no reason for the made up story about what happened.  There was no reason to take these parents to the HI and show them the exact spot you did not drop their daughter off.  There was no reason to change stories several times and cause 2 innocent people to be jailed for a week.  BUT, what I am saying is that this is only my opinion and due to how I grew up and how I believe it is impossible for me to believe otherwise.  That does not mean I am right and you are wrong.  It just means that I can't open my brain to the theory that innocent people would so blatantly lie and hinder an investigation into the life or death of some young woman.  But that is only me.  It's not that I think you are wrong, it is only that my mind won't allow me to think that way.  My mind won't allow me to believe that somehow the family of Natalee is responsible for part of this mess because they were "rude" to Joran's family.  I have a daughter.  I would move heaven and earth to find her if she were gone and excuse me if I'm not exactly polite when the last person to see her does not welcome me in with open arms and pray with me and search with me.  But please do not take offense when I question what you ask and what you say.  It is only that my mind just doesn't open to those behaviors.

Hey Caligirl!!!!!!  Wessssttttsssiiiiidddde!!!

I agree with Nancy that the Martin Savidge interview with the lead prosecutor was huge!  It's the first real confirmation we have that there is no evidence to show a crime was committed.  She also confirmed that they do in fact have the content of the text messages and emails.  Possibly the biggest bombshell was that Paulus VDS told the boys "No body, no charges" shortly after Natalee went missing, and the prosecuter felt PVDS was obstructing the investigation.

Hey CaliGirl!!  Just wanted to extend greetings from a fellow SoCal resident (Lo Angeles)!!  :)

Strike

Boys sit down with Paulus coz he's a lawyer
Boys ask what it all means legally
Paulus tells them what their rights are, to tell the truth, etc
Since there's a big commotion and she still hasn't turned up the Boys say - yeah, but what if she never shows up  - they're going to think we did something and she won't be there to tell them what really happened - are we going to jail?
Paulus says - if they don't have a body, they can't charge you with anything

This is as likely and possible as a scenario in which the boys say "heydad, we murdered this girl, so what happens next?"

Hey Strike... shout out to LA  :lol: Not too far from there!

My appologies if this has already been posted but I thought it warranted a read by others.  I found it interesting.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/a_change_in_moo.html

Cali,
Yall's has been waiting patiently for your return just to be able to say Wessssttttsssiiiiidddde!!!
 :lol:

  My hats off to you.. well said Dragon! I have a daughter too.. 21 years old and a 15 yr old son .. I would do more then move heaven and earth also if something happened to them. I think any parent would do the same as well.

Did you need a translation?(the best I can do lol) Father Paul van of the Ditch: No ljik, no affair' The Public Ministry of Aruba accuses the father of Yoran van of the Shut of it that he the investigation to the involvement of its son at the disappearance of Natalee Holloway serious has frustrated.  

In the NOVA broadcast from yesterday, Tuesday 28 June, has father Paul van of the Ditch declared that he be son and that one friends only the procedure has uitgelegd to prevent that they in panic would hit.  

Head officer of justice Karin Janssen declares in NOVA that "that indications of father verdergaan then how the procedure from it sees.  There is fixed come to stand that already single days after the disappearance the father with the boys speaks over the given that there without body no affair would be."  

The parents have according to Janssen a friend that by the police had been interrogated, approached, there their home to come tell what he at the police had declared.  The same evening the content of that explanation through the lawyer of Yoran at him has been communicated.  That is have been said disturbed on softest rather for the investigation, according to officer of justice Janssen in NOVA.

I was under the impression that he was talking all over school about it.  This isn't confirmed that I know of but it was also staded PVDS had to tell him to keep quiet.

What's the deal with Michelle Malkin...?

Remember, Nancy, it was either Kalpoes or Joran's attorney who said, "Obstruction of justice is NOT a crime in Dutch law."

Cali!

We missed you! How are you?

who is michelle malkin?

Yes, I heard the same thing on the Abrhams show.

I believe that PVDS came up the the alibi Deepak email.  He probably even told Deepak to send it to all his friends and relatives.

Read the front page of SM, tube.  :)

I am good! Hanging in there!! lol Thanks for asking!

I thought she said they called one of the boys friends to ask them what they told the police or what was asked. I must be going crazy.

How about two weeks of really looking, after giving Papa and the amigos every chance to cover-up.

I would like to know that if the Van der Sloots asked the brothers to lie about where he dropped Natalee off creating a false alibi, why did neither of the boys ask WHY are we being asked to lie?  Why did they so willingly cover if they believed nothing happened in the first place?

Now I am not sure either....I hope they replay the interview..... :oops:  But it sure sounds like they don't have much on them....oh goodness I hope they are not released on Tuesday...for I feel if they are, this will never be resolved.. :(

Sunny

Good point, Taz. I guess we really don't know if they did or didn't. Or maybe they did and were given a false reason...and didn't realize it until after they were arrested?

Klassend, they were creating a papertrail of alibis long before anyone knew natalee was missing,.......(because they already knew the shat was going to hit the fan)

Not very well informed.  Speaks out on things she knows nothing about.

Because at least one of them (Deepak) knew what happend!

Bingo

You guys are doing a great job, don't waste a thought on someone as useless as Michelle.  Michelle who cares.  Help out, or go count your marble collection.

With regard to seeing NH's actual room-didn't realize it had more than one entrance/exit.  No wonder security cameras didn't pick her up if returning!!!  Sure, security would pick up on lobby, but doubt anyone who wished to enter room from beach front would be picked up.  Even if NH would have returned, maybe she did, there's a good chance she could have very easily not have been detected by cameras!

I agree, Charlotte!

The prosecutor said that PVDS' "legal advice" - or worse, whatever that means - ocurred in the "first day after the disappearance."  This points to a story being cooked up before the arrival of Jug and his friends at the VDS residence on 5/31.

The prosecutor also found a problem in the parents' grilling of one of Joran's friends over what he said about Natalee at school.  She said that AVDS was part of this.  So I guess the mother will soon get hauled in and summarily released, too.

And... oh, yeah, "no evidence of crime."  I would infer from that that LE collected no forensic evidence.  Sounds like a real bang-up job.

The prosecutor seems diligent enough, but I hope that some pep talk from her isn't what changed the mood of Natalee's family last evening.  Because this case is FUBAR.

Hello all!  Trying to catch up - just read the timeline - great job!!  Haven't been able to log on for a while so I am playing catch up.  Forgive me if I'm rehashing old news -- but what's this about ATM withdrawals from PVDS' bank account 2-3 hours after NH last seen????  Rumor or real news??

well, there is a big time difference, Natalee her mother, her father, her step-parents, her classmates nor her chaperones COMMITTED nor have been ACCUSED of a crime.
However, joran and the bros kalpoe were arrested because LE has information they committed murder and kidnaping. In a nutshell that is the difference. If nothing else, they lied to her parents, put 2 innocent men in jail, and did nothing to assist in the search for Natalee.
Of course now we know, joran's father has told him no body no crime, which only confirms horrible actions on this groups part in my mind.

My guess is that it was thought that it would make a more solid story if there were 3 of them saying we all dropped her off here and saw the man in black, etc, as opposed to having Joran be in the position he is in now: the last person to see her alive, according to the statements of his own two friends!

The man in black was something the boys came up with on their own. (on edit: in my opinion)
I think Paulus would be more likely to know that that would have some repercussions. (the Keep it Simple Rule)

With regard to seeing NH's actual room-didn't realize it had more than one entrance/exit.  

I remember a post before dash left with her feelings hurt that she said there was NO OUTSIDE DOOR TO THE BEACH.  Do we know for sure who dash really was.  Maybe she just said she was the classmate we saw on tv.

Hmmm....Brown...good point. But if Natalee's bags were packed before she left, and IF we go with your scenario above..I wonder if anyone noticed a disruption or change in any of Natalee's belongings? I would hope that was asked of the roommates. Any remember? I am thinking we heard there were no signs that she ever returned to her room correct?

Can anyone send me the web address for the younger vdS (Valentijn) brother's tickle.com site?
Not the msnmyspace, please.  Tickle.com.

Have a pic I'd like to check out.  Thanks.  Had it, can't find it...story of my life.

Anyone who has e-mailed me since yesterday night, please e-mail me as pm has been disabled.

miraami"at"gmail

 

the last few years that i have went to the beach  the cameras   cover all sides of the hotel  you just have to look around for them     don't know how thay was set up  down there guess we will need to get arubagirl to go look for us

looks like somebody put a fire under janssen to do a little pr work since her efforts in her main line of endeavor seem to be going nowhere fast.  the dutch minister of justice was in the area earlier in the week.  the dutch press is finally going after the story, not just as a missing person case, which is what it still is after a month, but as a media circus.  this increases pressure like no amount of fox could ever do.  they don't get fox on aruba.  it is probably not your most watched cable progamming in the netherlands.   but when serious dutch news outlets start sending people out the story changes.  the holloways were on dutch tv before the v/d sloots.  i guess we will see janssend again tonight on Greta in another "exclusive".  hats off to martin for beating her.

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?_=aaaaaqaaaaG2mleaaaaemTKZnl3So8gaaaabnliaaaaiJke4GSoxnLc8OKi2OTMgGy00

1.  I would bet my life that Dash is who she says she is.
2.  This is exactly what Dash said regarding the door.


She may have said that because the sliding door is locked as soon as it's closed.

I don't understand why Caren Jaansen has suddenly become a fountain of information, after stonewalling for the past month. I have no reason to disbelieve anything she is saying, but I can't understand why she's saying it. And why now?

Thanks, Kerin.  You have a better info retrieval system than I do :lol:

I guess she is tired of being trashed every night on the news show  she got lucky last night and the presadent  was on so she got a break for a hour

Actually I was in his webspace on another screen  :) Just lucky.

Have you guys checked out this thread?

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=489

To: Charlotte and Kerin TX.
Michelle Malkin is anything but uninformed, and her "speaking out," usually takes the form of a best-selling book or books. I'll let her defend uninformed attacks on her credibility with her own words, (from her site www.michellemalkin.com).


Malkin has fried bigger fish, and investigated them more deeply, than the current topic which so captures our interest.

-MC

No, room probably locked from the outside. You could go out but not come in unless you left the door open, which they wouldn't do because then they'd get robbed. Plus we know it was out to A beach but I think someone who's been there (Scott maybe?) said there was a wall -- kind of like a private patio area, not out to main beach.
So you'd have to come through the lobby (or I guess past the pool if you came from the beach) to get back in. But there were 50-100 MB kids out in both areas until 5 am Monday morning.

http://www.magic965.com/index2.htm

Beth Holloway being interviewed finally.

Dash's mom also has visited this forum as well.. if my memory serves me right.. her name was Arlee..? I believe that DASH was indeed a friend..classmate and on the trip.....
I saw the outside door to NH room last night on Greta.. it was very heart breaking to see NH mother there.. amoungst her missing daughters things..and having her passport along with hers in her purse ready to take her daughter home.  I dont doubt for a second that DASH wasnt for real or her mother.. I am not being rude by no means!!  Its a sahme DASH isnt here anymore because of some teenage kid.  God Bless her and the other friend of NH and of course the families.

Notice that his site says he (Valentijn) is 19 and Joran's Hot or Not site claimed he (Joran) was 19 and already a student at St. Leo's.....I know this is commonin young boys to pretend theya re of legal age, but geez.....

Does everyone on Aruba have a Tickle site?  Arubagirl, is it THAT common?

OK, Absolut...that's kinda freaky.  :shock:

Arubagirl, how common are Internet connections in households versus using the Internet cafes on Aruba? Are Internet cafes common in Aruba or just the one that Deepak worked at?

Somehow Fox News is being transmitted to the Fox reporters. Are they the only ones that can see Fox News except video from the Internet?

Thanks if you can shed any light on these subjects. :)

OK...Karin Janssen also spoke with the American media! I guess she basically said what she said on Dutch television (NOVA) earlier today.

She is CONVINCED that Joran has to do with it. That says a lot.

By the way: Karin Janssen was a prosecutor (Officier van Justitie) in the Netherlands (Roermond) and she has a very good reputation. Nova said she had a role in the "Bende van Venlo"-case.
Now she's the headprosecutor (Hoofdofficier van Justitie) in Aruba (for a period of 3 years).

Thanks, Mr. Connahey. I already went to her site.

That may be, but I choose to attend THIS fish fry for the moment, thank you. And, much as I admire Michelle Malkin, I don't tell her how to spend her time, and I don't need her to tell me how I should spend mine.

arubagirl,

dot com or dot net?

If radio does not open, go to www.arubadag.com and click on logo RealPlayer to instal Realplayer. After installation, click on Magic FM or go to the link that was provided above.

Teo

That scares me...alot!

 i don't think we know with any precision who packed natalee's bags, whether she did, her room mates or the chaperone.  i seem to recall the roomies did.  personally, i think it doubtful she ever returned but the door certainly offers the possiblity of undetected entry.   why do you think great checked it out?  she is one nosey newsie and is pursuing all theories.  i found the scene last night very sad.  Poor beth is in a terrible state, barely holding on.  for greta nothing is sacred when it comes to a story.

Not to be a stickler, but "pagan" is generally used to refer to European pre-Christian religions, while Santeria is a syncretinization of traditional faith of Yoruba into Roman Catholicism.

Because the colonialists objected to the African slaves practicing their religion, it became the custom to "code" it,  first with innocuous signs (kind of like early Christians and the fish sign) , and later with the Catholic saints themselves.

For instance, Shango, or Chango, as it is sometimes spelled, is the monkey god in the Yoruba pantheon, but he is represented by St. Barbara, Elegua (or Legva) is St. Joseph, etc.

The Yoruba faith is also similar to that of Dahomey, where the same thing happened with slaves sent to Haiti. The syncretinized religion there is called "Vodu" or "voodoo" as Americans spell it.

In Brazil, it is Macombe, but in most of the Caribbean, especially Cuba, it is Santeria.

It's a reaction on what Paulus van der Sloot said on Dutch television yesterday. (On aruba they also have Dutch tv)
- She denies Paul only explained the 3 suspects the procedure.
- She defends the interrogation techniques.
- She denies the investigation has stalled. She STILL think the investigation is in a "crucial" phase.

"the dice throwers rolled"
"mary rolled"

"the gamblers also took note"

the gamblers=the dice throwers=some of the the students?

The gamblers are not the Arubans, the Dutch, the bad guys the ruling class so or the children thereof so who are they?

Some people who were in the casino know where NH was brought?  Call me nuts but I think there is something to this Shango business.  If I were there, and the only thing I had to go on was 3 boys who are not talking I'd be looking for the stinky cave or house with the music on the dirt road.

 I just checked it out Absolut...  yikes..
I know pagans in my area of PA are related to Motorcycle gangs,, and somewhat  religion... . Thanks for posting that!

The reason she wrote it the way it was written is to prevent spiderbots pick out the address and use it for spamming.


Best thing you can do for Arubagirl is to go back to your post and edit it so her intention was not made in vain.

Just a tip,
Teo

www.arubadag.com

It's funny how these pictures on myspace and tickle can come back to haunt you.  My daughter has pictures of herself on Friendster.com.  I told her to be careful which pictures she posts because that would be the image the world would have of her if she was - God forbid- ever become front page news.

Could be an indirect way to "ask" the judge to dismiss her from the case, since no progress is made. :wink:

what happen Mariaine Croes?

arubagirl  any chance you could fix me up with her  :wink:

I've been following the Shango and Simian posts for several days and they are eerie.  One of them knew that PVS was going to be arrested two hours before it happened.  There could be something to either of them.  You have to be careful and make sure the posts are real because you don't have to login to post there so there has been a lot of fake posts claiming to be Simian.

Dash is who she said she was. My family lives in Mountain Brook and my cousin's niece went to school with her.

I know Dash was run off several days ago but what about MBHS05- do i recall her saying she was going on vacation or to camp?  Does anyone know when she was returning?

To Kerin TX: You're welcome Didn't know if you'd read the "about" section. Thx for your post.

To Professor: Ouch, my man. I'm not telling or attempting to tell anyone how or what or when to read. Merely posted (earlier) some links which included Malkin's among others, and answered a question about her cred's. I agree with you: THIS is a fish fry that I myself find interesting, which we have in common. But isn't the diversity truly astounding when we notice that so many either A) don't find it interesting, or B) think it's over-reported. I love your posts professor, and would say yours among maybe 5 or 6 other posters are the ones I read when logging on. Thanks for keeping it relevant and up-to-date.

-MC

Unless there was a little back scratchin going on, and I think there was that day.

 I remember MBHS saying she was going away to camp.. I dont know when she returns. perhaps someone else does.

I don’t think the ‘sliding door to the beach” is important, but last summer I rented a condo which APPEARED to have a sliding door opening onto the beach, but in fact, did not.

The sliding door in my condo opened onto a  patio from which I could step out onto a large grassy/sandy area with the beach and ocean in view in distance. There were many plants and 20-25 foot tall trees growing in this area.

HOWEVER, the area off the patio (about 30’ x 150’) was entirely surrounded by a thorny hedgerow about four feet high.  Annoyed that I could not get to the beach this way (and thus saving a lot of steps), I investigated closely (crawling under the thorny hedgerow) only to discover that the grassy/sandy area was in fact on top of parking garage, and was about 10 feet above ground level on the other side of the hedgerow.

As I’ve read here many times, things are not always what they appear to be.

Because, like iquios said earlier, the dutch press are waking up and creating their own time- and storylines.
About monday. In this fase of the investigation the prosecution doesn't need to bring more and new evidence against the suspects to prolong their stay in prison. It's now up to the defence to disqualify the evidence already presented.
If they judge desides to keep them in prison for another sixty days another rule comes in play. Setting the trialdate for the pro forma trial. This date must be set within that 60 days period. At the pro forma trial a definitive trialdate wil be set. Until the start of this official trial the suspects are to remain in custody.

It is somebody fooling around. There were posts that PVS would be arrested in plain English, here and elsewhere, DAYS before the fact.

There is nothing in any of those posts that has not been said, asked, speculated or opined.

In fairness, there is not much on heaven or earth regarding this case that has not been said, asked, speculated or opined.

Whoever is doing it is taking advantage of the principal demographic of this website. What sounds so strange and exotic to you is common as dust to people of Cuban, Dominican, etc heritage. You will be hard pressed to find a Cuban home, of any social class, that does not have a coconut decorated with cowrie shells by some door, somewhere.

Went to the website.  It says his age is 19.  And this is the younger brother?

Teo,
I edited. Now you need to do the same.

ARUBAGIRL.. once again.. thanks for all that you have done. I would PM you personally.. but I"m sure you get tons of those asking questions..
  know that you are very much appreciated here. Hugs to you! :wink:

Valentijn lied. He's about 14 or 15.

Sunny, I heard that, too.  I was wondering if that friend was either Deepak or Satish, or someone else.  They need to talk to that person asap if it wasn't either of them!
(sorry if this has been addressed, I'm still catching up!)

I really believe that Dash told us early on in this that they were all packed before they went out that night because they would need to be up and ready for the flight the next morning.  Not sure why this seems to be such a sticky point for some, but I think that is what she said.  Natalee would have been packed before they even went to the bar that night because they all knew they would be out late and would not have time to pack in the AM.  I'm not sure of the layout of the HI, but from everything I've heard and seen, Natalee would not have been trying to enter through that outside door as it locked from the inside and I don't think backed up right to the beach she could have been walking from.  I believe that it has been established that she NEVER made it back to the hotel at all so the door really would be a non-issue here anyway.

He lied about his age on the tickle site...lying seems to run in the family! :shock:

Yeah, "un-truths" seem to run in the family.  :D

Kids lie all the time about their age on tickle and myspace.

gmail is dot com, as far as I know- at least, my gmail account is...

so the PARENTS called one of joran's friends and tried to get him to tell them what the friend told the police? Am I understanding that correctly?

Last night, when I watched dad's interview on nova, I posted on here he was a liar, mainly because he said looking so sincerely and earnestly, he was NOT a suspect--well we know that was incorrect ( I maintain he just wanted to say the words to people in the Netherlands before anyone else said he was) Now we know he is also immoral. He knows something or he would not, have ever given the no body no crime advice. Sick..... :evil:

((WENCH))   yes I agree they do lie.. My son did the same thing. and one of my friends called me to tel me about it.. he was talking to her on the MY SPACE.. she figured out who he was.. BUSTED..!!!  She wasnt trying to get him in trouble.. and I had a NICE long talk with him as well.
Hell I lied about my age.. when I was 12.. people thought I was 16..went along with it.. teens do that!!

Could be, or could be that she's fed up. Wasn't it her who arrived at the courthouse with "armloads" of documents, to argue that PVDS should remain in custody? And they had replaced the previous judge, supposedly because he had "seen too much of the evidence," (sic) and the new judge spent a few short hours, going over thousands of pages of documents, and didn't see ANY evidence.

Maybe she couldn't stomach the cover-up any longer, and this was one way to get thrown off the case.

Hehehehe..wel I did use the " and plced the @ between it, so it looks like "@"

But maybe you are right and I better take the @symbol totally out.

:-)

I am going it to change it right away, thank you for keeping me sharp

Teo
www.arubadag.com

she is a piece of work, a real piece of work. and ditto Charlotte

Perhaps because the VDS's were out there lying? Perhaps she knew she had to defend the investigation, I am glad she did.

I was just thinking the same thing that early in disappearance either a friend or Fox reported that when Natalee had not returned and they were preparing to go to airport one of her friends packed her bags.

There are several internet cafes, but the one Deepak works at is the biggest (the most computers) I THINK, and most centrally located.

If anyone of you listened to the interview, please understand that I am wondering why the hell the interviewer was not conducted by someone who speaks English well.

Geez.

To the backscratching... Why.was.there.backscratching? Or corruption? Or cover-up?

altruist, wonderful post.  I completely agree with everything you said.  Please don't go back to lurking... :wink:

About bags being packed, wow, these kids were very dillingent, as they were in the lobby at 12 noon, therefore giving them the morning to pack.

Ahum, providing they were awake ;).

DF - are people really still stuck on this?  Why can't they let it go?  It has no bearing on the case.

 A member of that family lying?  How out of character for them!!!

she is an idiot

Charlotte, HEEHEEE

really freaky. I was looking at these posts, I think dirty hand is joran, elder is deepak, but this is interesting info

Arubagirl - any word on the Texas search team today?

I haven't seen a single post from him since he went underground.  Guess someone needs to tell him we didn't mean to go THAT far.

 8)

Ok.. I dont mean to sound dumb... what exactly is the internet cafe??  I know there are computers... Is this a place for people to get online only???   What else is there to an internet cafe? Im sorry.. I live in Pennsylvania.. and there are none in my area..!!!  I just wanted to be sure what all it consists of??  Thank you   ~Angie~

Maybe he's actually vacationing, lol  :lol:

Translations I have seen have said that the dirty hand is someone high in LE who has his hands into some dirty things that will be exposed by this case being solved and PVDS is "elder" and Joran is the sacrificial lamb.  Don't know anything about these.  They are creepy but whether they have value or not is certainly a cool topic for debate.   :D

I don't think this is anything important, but, way back when Natalee first went missing I came across an ad placed online by Deepak Kalpoe to sell his computer. (I saved a screen capture of the ad if anyone wants to see it.) I just checked the website again and it says;

"This ad has expired or was removed by the ad owner.
Not all details are available anymore."

<url=http://www.arubamatch.com/aruba/Corsair_Flash_Drive/cat/1000/sub_cat/1000/lang/EN/code/b83cb633d0335b6e794fc24dae89378e/index.php">LINK</url>

This may have no bearing on the present situation at all because the date on the ad is 20-03-2005. But I thought someone might have an interest in it. It contained his email addy, phone number, etc. Since the email addy was a link, the link is of course no longer visible in the screen capture.

Seeker

The internet cafe that Deepak works at is mostly computers to go online with, there are one or two that also allow world processing and printing. I used to go there before I forked over a small fortune to get DSL installed.

IMO, if someone is 200% sure someone else is not guilty it's either:

1)  They themselves committed the crime/abducted her, whatever
2)  They saw someone else commit the crime

If PVDS is saying that because "J told me that he didn't do it and I believe him", well, we know J does lie.

Any other reasons someone could be that sure?

My speculation theories are on overload!   :shock:

I am with you the dice throwers, gamblers were the other students who know joran was around.

I have watched the NOVA interview again (it's online: go to www.novatv.nl, "WO 29" and "complete uitzending).

Karen Janssen said PAUL called one of Joran's friends to his home to question about what he (yes, she said "he") said to the police, a couple of days AFTER Joran was arrested.
(That friend must be our mysterious "Lorenzo".  :?:)
The same evening Joran's lawyer told Joran what his friend had said to the police. hat's why Karin said PVDS is frustrating the investigation.

I don't know if this has been said, I just logged on, but don't you imagine her mother has gone through her bags to see if she could find any hints or clues?  So I really think that the bag are irrevelant at this point.  Even if I pack the night before there are things I leave out that I will need in the morning, such as tooth brush, hair brush, make-up, etc.....

Maybe so but as you say there is nothing that has not been speculated upon.  And the stories these boys are telling just don't add up.  If you believe that the Kalpoes are not directly involved then they have no motive to lie.  If they are directly involved then why is Joran calling Deepak on his phone while or shortly after the crime?  And if the Marriot beach story is the truth then where is natalee?  She tripped on a coconut on the way back to her room, became onconcious, fell in the water and fl;oated out to sea?  There is more to the story and Shango's descriptions make as much or more sense than anything else being floated around here.

The underground parties are well known.  In light of todays drug bust it seems that there are ties to the South American drug trade.  High grade X and other drugs are readily available in Aruba.  Pushers apparently stake out the hotels and find new customers.  The locals probably don't build sand castles.  I live 200 yards from the beach and I haven't been there in months.  The locals play in the casinos and elswhere.

I resent your insinuation regarding the demographics of this forum.

I really have to agree with you there.

 Thank you for the answer!!!!!!!!  I was curious!!
 Hey.. you are up to date girl..lol  I dont even have DSL.. !!!

Interesting Gerben thanks, I thought there was something different about this hearing,

:lol: Professor, I like the way you put this! :lol:

I'm not sure why people keep going back to the door in Natalee's room going out to the beach.  It had a latch on the inside and can't be opened from the outside unless left unlocked (which they surely wouldn't do with their belongings in the room).

We *know* Dash is legit.  She'd never seen Natalee's room and assumed it was like hers with a balcony.  Not a big deal!

Martin - We're interested in *this* case.  I'm not sure what it matters *on the message board about Natalle Holloway* if other people think it's important or not.  I actually can't remember agreeing with anything Michelle Malkin has ever had to say.

Nancy Grace update......I think she has Steve Croes, not sure. May just be a clip .

thank you, well said! IMO

AND??  what is she saying??
I have FOX on... I cant hear it well form where I am sitting..Ughhh.
Thanks !!

So, NL, I would think it would have to be Lorenzo.  If it was after Joran was arrested, Deepak and Satish would be in jail too.  The only other person I know of that was brought in and questioned was Lorenzo (and SC who was not a friend of Joran).  Very interesting.  So Papa gets this information and relays it to Joran's attorney who then relays it to Joran?  Am I getting that right?

She is really annoying.  Can she put her pen/pencil down and just speak to us?

I have viewed the nova interview.  she said tow important things not yet mentioned here.  P v/d S is interfering in the investigation.  He told the boys more than procedure. He told them " a few days after the disappearance" that if there is no body there is no case.  After a friend was questioed as a witness he called the friend to come over and tell him all about the questioning and the friend went.  This is all moot for now since the judge ordered his release, which only rarely happens.  Sounds like she did it for spite more than anything.   She also said the interrogation is within legal standards and is taped and available to the judge.

I got behind a little bit, but followed a link given earlier to another board
Ting writes:
Post subject:   
Shango is the monkey god in the traditional Yoruba pantheon. The Catholic saint used to represent him is St. Barbara.

I just don't know if I can bite off into any more theories, but still the connection with Shango and the monkey go struck me as yet one more really odd coincidence.  

My city was once dubbed "The Kingdom of Monkeys" by a now-deceased local writer, Eugene Walter.  Monkeys here, monkeys there.

I re-read my post and did not have good luck finding a reference to the Kalpoes at all.

What was the insinuation you resent? That most of the posters on here are not familiar with Caribbean syncretinized religions? That most are not Cuban.

Don't be resentin'  You can learn all about the religions, and if it's the suggestion that you might not be Cuban displeases you, make friends with Cubans in your community and maybe you can become an honorary one and learn how to make some really cool things to eat in the bargain!  :D

PVDS sure is going out of his way to get the stories straight.  I hope hes re-arrested he obviously mastermnded a coverup for his son who killed natalee.  Every single bit of information points in that direction.

This is what Dash said:

That's not true... her room was by mine... You have to go through the hotel to get to it[/quote]

Sorry dash...someone posted here yesterday they saw Beth on TV in her/Nat's room and they saw the door with sand....so it was posted that you could get to the room from the beach.

Not true?[/quote]


Nope, you have to go through the hotel either through the front enterance (inside) or through the hotel/ outdoor restraunt part. Then you walk over a little bridge to the building we stayed in.

IMO, one of the more important bloggers on the web.  Read for yourself what she said, not what people are saying she said.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/002875.htm

Steve Croes on Nancy Grace...

SC is live on Nancy.

They do have SC on LIVE!

Somebody asked me about FOX, right?

Okay, in an extended cable package you can get FOX, but I don't know if it also includes Scarborough, Bill O'Reilly, etc....

But I don't get Fox.

He told cops internet cafe story.

Again, I underatand your point, and it's a valid one.  But again, I feel the relevance is more about how it's perceived by the viewer (or, poster in this case).  

In general, the MSM presents news that is negative to begin with.  It's what sells.  And, unfortunately, it's the reality of life.  Look, of course we'd all rather be reading about something else...and this case never happened.  Natalee Holloway would be safe at home...enjoying her summer, and we'd be finding some other topic to discuss here.  At least I know I would.

As for the comparison to the efforts of our military, and the loss of life associated with it...what can I tell you?  It's as sad a story to read about a mother having to answer that doorbell and having the chaplin and a few uniforms telling her that her loved one has paid the ultimate price for freedom.  In a strange way though, this does tie in to the Holloway case.  An American in a country not of their own...a potential for foriegn "attackers"...an attempt by mutliple forms of govt trying to "spin" things to the mold in which benefits them most...it's all there.  And, I agree with you...the loss of life is equal throughout.  No one can be made to be more important.

I thank you for you consideration and respect.  Hope to hear from you in responce.

Strike

He told cops truth that he was sleeping on boat.  He has been fired from job.  He got the raw end.

Steve Croes fired from his job b/c of his shenanigans.

He dont know them at all.  He says it is "a stupid mistake".  He heard Deepak on phone saying the story of dropping Nat off at hotel.

She is more big picture (issues that will impact the masses) whereas we are currently more focused on a much smaller issue but of critical importance to us.

Concerning Michelle Malkin:::
Charlotte wrote:


KackyLacky wrote:


Point well taken Charlotte, re: scheme of things. But if you haven't read MM's books, then how can you, in an informed way, "stand by" your opinion that she is uninformed and speaks on topics she doesn't know about? From what I've seen, Michelle is almost overly informed, backing up her positions with stats and examples beyond what is needed. Having "seen her on Fox," and basing your opinion solely on that, you'd be engaging in the activities you (wrongly) ascribe to her. Besides, I seriously doubt any of this "bothers her," as she's publicly all over the map on dozens of other topics, busy writing her national column, and working on her next best-seller.

KackyLacky obviously has her own strongly-held opinion about Malkin, though we can't be sure as to the reasons since they are unstated. All we have to go on is her (Kacky's) short sentence which rises no higher than groundless name-calling.

I thank you both (Kacky and Charlotte) for posting on this topic. If more of us would exchange ideas and opinions, no matter that we obviously disagree in many cases, I honestly believe that we'd all be better off in the long run. Thank you for your ideas.

-MC

 i forgot to mention as NL has pointed out that Joran's lawyer told Joan what the guy (witness) had said.  That must be why Paul and the lawyer were not allowed to visit.  They were passing info on the investigation to Joran.  it is important to note that the advice session happened "a few days" after natalee disappeared, not immediately.

Then again Shango might have a good sense of humor posting under this name on the scared monkeys site? Just something to think about.

HE (SC) got a raw deal?????????   :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

I am not sure Satish has anything to do with all this.

Joran made (sunday) 8 different statements.

Jaron has had EIGHT different stories, FOUR of which have had substantial changes.  Yikes!!

WOW...Joran has had 4 major versions of what took place that night.

THANKS!!  Keep us posted about what he is saying if anything!!

If he doesnt directly hes covering for his brother which is enough in my book to keep him in jail.

Was arrested at home, interrogated him from the beginning.  He said the LE treated him good.

This guy isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Mickey and Abraham (sp?) are sharper than this guy.

Beth said Natalee packed her own bags that Sunday night.

He believed Deepak when he heard him on the phone at cafe.

Except maybe alibi for Deepak.  Communication through text, phone, computer.  I'm thinking maybe that was his only involvement.

doesn't joran have any friends other than this Loranzo?  :?

Yeah that came out on FOX last night. Satish's attorney (I think) said that Joran tells a story, then is confronted with new evidence...and then once again changes his story again!

He never saw or talked to three suspects in jail.

Arubagirl - do you have any idea how we can get a picture of Lorenzo?

Gerben,

Is there a charge in Dutch/Aruban law similar to conspiracy here in the US?

Deepak was on internet in chat room when Joran texted him at 3:00 saying he was home.  Le figured this out.

That was so kind, nancy.  I'm sure you will wear it with pride & some sorrow.  I do have one question tho.  How did they get your name & address?

DELETED

Sorry, I was becoming somewhat aggressive.  Time for my Yoga class.

Lorenzo is the only one we know of that was brought in for questioning and released.  Steve didn't know Joran and was also arrested so I doubt Papa called him over to the house to ask questions.

commercial break! :lol:

I'll stick w/ Lorenzo.  No flaming please.

no offense, but issues that impact HER masses, not me.

Just something for people to keep in mind, is that I can send a text message to the person sitting next to me.  That doesn't mean they are at home or somewhere else.

Heard that as well Kerin ..  how convienant. huh?
This 8 times of story changing is .. uhhhh.. I cant even find the right words to say?  BS...  I dont have Nancy on.. do you??

All this talk about this Lorenzo guy, yet we don't know a single thing about him.  We don't know if he was invovled in this case at all.

Surely no insult was intended here!

Sometime this weekend or early next week I think.

and I hope LE is also able to determine if that text message was made from home or another location!

Yes, you're getting it right  8)

I don't know who that friend is. But it is a "he".

But if this could be proven don't you think he would be released?  Maybe not because of lies told from beginning, but you would think if he was proven to be at home and on the internet that he would be let go.  I don't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

right I have thought about that as well.

Nancy Grace's interview with SC and Carl Penholz's statements about the JVDS attorney's statements (Deepak's attorney stated) 8 changes by JVDS and 4 substantial ones, are the most significant reporting since last week's probe with Greta and the PVDS/AVDS.  

This should make the Holloway/Twitty camp feel a bit better that JVDS isn't going to escape.

Yeah I had her on. Not a big fan but it was interesting to hear SC. Over now.

did i hear right EDITED - USE HIS NAME RB had changed his story about how he got home now he didn't walk

I dont know either.  It seems to me that they will hold anyone in custody there.

So now we know joran has changed his story at least 8 times, 4 times he made significant changes according to Attorney Kock, per Karl Penhaul

EIGHT STORIES? Dear God...

Yes but the cell towers can give a location within a certian distance of the cell phone. I have had it done before.

No wonder they were freaked out by his release.

Get your affairs in order Mr VDS or pitch your son to the cops and save the rest of your family.

Greta on Fox saying on her show they are going to try to see how Joran got story so quick.

So, it doesn't matter if the cellphones are pre-paid or postpaid? Don't throw stuff at me, don't know anything about this.

Monday should be interesting if Deepak and/or Satish are released.  My gut says that Satish is innocent other than the first cover-up lie, but I'm torn about Deepak.

I know there are some out there that disagree, but I believe that an INNOCENT person does NOT change stories that much and does not LIE that much.

Well maybe he's just a scared teenager?? (note sarcasm)  :lol:

Dittos Thirdstrike. VERY well put re: similarities of cases.

Psychic Detective: Yes, we are all here (at SM) bec/ we are interested in this case. I'm merely pointing to media (Malkin is one of many) who have an interesting opinion about where this all fits and why it does or does not merit major int'l news coverage. That you have not agreed w/ MM's views might be that you are diametrically opposed to her politics, or just haven't approached her prodigious writings. But the fact remains that her opinion (regarding this case) has merit, is widely held, and says much about US media.

Thank you both for your ideas and posts.

-MC

No it doesnt matter, but the problem is the island is so small the distance may be insignificant.

Yeah, but I couldn't decide is she is just wiped out and fuzzy (and rightly so) or if she was trying to convince herself that Nat did plan to leave with the group the next day.  Or maybe she just felt comfort in thinking that her daughter had carefully packed her stuff to return to her.  I know if something happened to my girl I would be DELUSIONAL and in complete denial about anything other than finding her alive until I was SHOWN otherwise.



Hmmmmm

Deepak seems to be somewhat computer savy...I have my home system relay email to me on a regular basis.  Deepaks "chatroom" activity could be this.  No one has said what chat room he was in or any other activity that took place on his computer.

I would think that LE has all these details and the may be why they haven't released either of the brothers.

No it doesn't matter,  the signals still have to go thru the tower.

Gerben says that this hearing it will be the defense combating the prosecutor instead of the prosecutor forced to show new evidence like before.

all teenagers lie silly. more sarsam

I don't think we know his current story, but he apparently told them that Deepak picked him up, then changed it to Satish picked him up, and at one point said he walked.

O'Rielly is irritating me.  He keeps interrupting Greta.

Pulled another TV on my desk as now O'Reilly had Greta on the tube...

O'Reilly is now hunting for the story...(the story is he's been displaced as the Number 1 cable news show on the tube!)

<<He told them " a few days after the disappearance" that if there is no body there is no case.>>

I'm pretty sure that in the Abrams interview on MSNBC Janssen said that PVDS gave the legal advice and made the "no body no case" comment on the first day after the disappearance.  This is not meant to question your representation of the NOVA interview of Janssen.  But I think we agree there's a BIG difference between the two statements.

<<After a friend was questioed as a witness he called the friend to come over and tell him all about the questioning and the friend went.>>

In the Abrams interview on MSNBC Janssen included AVDS in this move with the friend.

...and there can't be that many towers on that island.  It's flat for the most part.  

Greta is so much smarter than O'Reilly.

you are right, what was I thinking.  :lol:  :lol:

Oreilley pretty much said they have nothing on Joran.  Greta said they may and we just dont know.  Bill said as much as this is hurting the economy they would have already charged him.  Greta agreed.

The only factual think we know about him is that he was brought in for questioning and released.  Everything else is rumor.  But why can't we find any solid information on him?  But the fact that he was brought in for questioning certainly points toward the fact that the LE must have thought there was a chance he was involved in the case, imho.

I just want to state that I don't believe Steve Croes' story entirely. You don't get arrested for overhearing a someone talking on the phone.

My guess is that he vouched for them and then oops, they changed the story on him.

Don't throw stuff at me.

ROFLMAO!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

greta on teaser:  "I'm just saying we don't know."

it does if it one of them phones you buy with a number all ready in it

Question for people in aruba, at what time was the fact that NH was missing known to the public?  I'm wondering this because why would the boys make up a story or get advice from their father on the monday she was reported missing, the only reason I can think of (assuming their innocence) is that they were scared of all the publicity. BUt if it wasn't known she missing yet why make up a story?

Put a TV in Jorans room and show him his mother being hauled in with handcuffs on.

Aruabagirl, Bill O'Reilly on FOX keeps saying that this case is killing the economy of Aruba. What are your thoughts on that, if you don't mind?

man you said a mouthful there, no spin zone, should be the blowhard area

This is a pretty clean take and one with insight.
I admit, I don't like PVDS or his elder son. I didn't like what I heard about how they reacted when the parents showed up looking for their girl.

Who would really want someone like that working for him...especially someone's whos business was directly involved with tourists...not I.  He is either a liar or an idiot and I think probably both....but I still don't think he is telling the truth.  JMO
Sunny

All cell phones activated since 2004 or when you get new phones MUST have the GPS tracking system in their phones.  It is the law.

Ok, where do we have this confirmed from? I havent heard anything about this guy in the msm.

do we know he was brought in?  we don't even know his name.  What about Max?

and his brother and his father again on a different charge. If he saw his dad come back in that would shake him up I bet

I don't know what he said to the LE but I think he was after money   :shock:

Actually, I agree with you.  I think SC ran into Deepak at the internet cafe and Deepak gave him a copy of the alibi email.

O'Reilly has never had a guest he didn't interrupt.

O'Reilly is fortunate that Greta and the righteous Hannity didn't investigate his "late night telephone calls to O'Reilly's former producer-gate story."

O'Reilly is ONLY doing this story because he's No. 2 now.  He hates these kind of stories....LOL

The same point Greta was just trying to make.

is that the law in Aruba, or just here

Not outside of the US.

O'Reilly is chewing Ruben T up one side and down the other...

Oreilley is tearing into the aruban gov represent.

We heard the story Monday, maybe? The thing is I heard it from a friend who is in the red cross, and another member was talking to a cop.

But that it really broke Tuesday morning. We knew pretty early on about a Dutch guy and the two Surinamese brothers.

Shellbell, it's Aruban law to have GPS tracking in cellphones? Holy crap.

Max Arendsz was also brought in for questioning.

Well, that answers that. We know they were all "the coolest" and I'm sure had all the new gadgets and toys. lol

Oh my...O'Reilly is strafing an unarmed man in the form of Rudy...and has he been reading this board, too???? :)

Would someone please SHUT BILL O'REILLY UP???

Rudy PM'd us he would like Bill O Reilly banned!.

Adding some levity.  :D

It is mandated anywhere Alltel is, I know that for a fact.  I am sure it is that way everywhere unless they are using bag phones (which I doubt).

Whitney, we would have jurisdiction over this, and I haven't heard any law about this. Of course, I don't know all the laws, so...

Here is Rueben,

http://www.assmotion.com/photos%20arubadag%20after%20party/imagepages/image51.html

interesting!

what law are you taking about i just got a first of the year with out GPS

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I believe that a prankster is taking advantage of members of this forum who are knowledgeable about many things that do not include Santeria or the differences in Cuban and Haitian cuisine.

littletxlady - very good point.  I'm sure they did have the latest toys.

Score one for the greedy kids.

:evil:

Has anyone heard this/ If it's been commented on here before, I haven't seen it, I can barely keep up with all the threads and posts! I am especially interested in ArubaGirl's opinion on this because if she has seen Natalee's mom out and about, she might confirm or deny this.

I would quote my source if I could remember, it was on another forum in a similar format to this and has also been mentioned on the CourtTv boards, but on the original forum it was mentioned on (Trip Advisor maybe?)....someone is in Aruba with her husband, and this lady is buying Internet time by the half-hour and posting to the message board.

She said that they see Natalee's mom around, and has heard her talking about how nice the locals are being to her.....the locals are hugging her mom, giving her kind words and support, and then she turns her back and is walking away from them, they are flipping her off and making fun of her and being very disrepectful. The lady said both she and her husband have seen this behavior a number of times, and also heard the locals who've been speaking with Beth talking crap about her when she isn't around- then being nice to her face when she crosses paths with them again.

I am SURE this is not ALL locals by any means, but it was said that this is happening quite a bit and a lot of the islanders are just ticked off and want the Holloway family gone and over with.

Are some of the locals really being this openly hateful or rude? It's one thing to hate the things Americans are generalizing about Aruba, and to want the whole thing to be wrapped up and go away but another thing entirely to be hateful to poor Beth....even if Beth has had snaps of temper, she is grieving and just wants her daughter.

People there (tourists) claim to have seen this firsthand. ArubaGirl, do you see things like this happen? I hope not... :(

The only thing that can explain O'Reilly's outburst with Trappenburg, I'm sadly SUSPECTING that it's a symptom of CRACK addiction...not saying it is...but that behavior is seen with CRACK addicts.

http://www.digicelaruba.com/about/

.. Digicel raised the bar where acceptable levels of network coverage were concerned. By installing some 15 cellular towers; throughout the Island, Digicel offers 90% population coverage thus firmly establishing itself as the Number One GSM mobile provider in Aruba. ...

What is Alltel and bagphones?

Okay.  Can we move on now?

All new cell phones have them.  That is a fact, I know this.  I worked for cell phone companies.  And I am 99.5% sure the law is the same in Aruba.

Steve Croes is on Paula Zahn now.  This guy is unbelieveable!  He says he doesn't know the Kalpoe brothers and he doesn't really know why he chose to involve himself in the case of a missing/possibly murdered tourist?!?!?!?   Does he really think anyone believes him?

90% coverage, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. What crack have they been smoking?

But did the boys have digicel phones or Setar phones?

If you missed it some highlights of the Beth Holloway Twitty interview on 96.5 with some audio also.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1201

Police weren't notified until 9 pm that night because the chaperone thought when she told beach patrol, they were going to report it to the police. When chap called police at 9 to find out what was going on, they didn't know anything about it. that's when it got officially reported, but i don't know if word was put out until the next day. Right, arubagirl?

And not his half-brother or brother?

If they are on digital towers there calls can be traced by the GPS.

I just got a new phone first of the year  did not have gps

:::nodding head::::
makes sense to me, Whitney...uh huh.

in the dutch interview she repeated the after few days (na enkele dagen) for emphasis. i did not see the whole abrams interview.  this is something to follow up in the transcripts or online if they run the abrams interview on msnbc site.

Omni, I haven't heard this, haven't seen this, but if this happened? Wow, point me to the people and I will kick their ass.

I almost can't believe it, because everyone here like"that poor poor woman, God help her".
Next sentence: [U.S. media] SHUT UP!!!!

If the diamond isnt at the top, your cell phone provider could be shut down and sued by the government.  That is a BIG NO NO!!!

Why do we need a picture of "Lorenzo"?  :roll:

What we need to know is WHY Steve Croes went to the police. Did Paul paid him? Or his "client" (one of the Kalpoes)?
Are the Kalpoes also changing stories? If so, then THEY have also something to do with the disapearance of Holloway.

In NOVA they said the judge-commisioner will decide whether or not to prolong the detention of the 3 suspects on Monday. But maybe they meants Tuesday. I don't know.

"We need more technical assistance", is what Karin said to the American media. But to the Dutch media Karin said she thinks she has enough investigators and material to solve this case.
Maybe Karin wants to please the American public, Natalee's family, Bill O'Reilly and the Aruban Prime Minister, who all want the Dutch Marine to join in....

i think it is adhd

<<Bill O'Reilly on FOX keeps saying that this case is killing the economy of Aruba. >>


He probably got his information from the Paris Business Review.

It may not be a law in Aruba but I'm sure that the phones have them because they are built in since 2004. I don't think they would make special phones for certian countries.

I'm sure it happens and wouldn't be surprised.  Tourism supports 95% of the population directly or indirectly; the only one's who are immune from this is good ol' editor of Diario and his family...they have "other income" of course.

Good job Maggie.  That's great saturation.  Maybe that's what LE has to keep them in jail.

klaassend, unless it's on the internet, good luck.

Who knows? ...  15 cell towers is the point of the post.

I have to say that the news gets more disturbing every day. And not just because of what appears to be a cover-up, but because of a certain “island mentality” that seems to demand a cover-up, with anybody but local boys held accountable for Natalee Holloway’s disappearance. We have seen the operation of “swift island justice” before, in the Virgin Islands, and in Jamaica, where local police departments were quick to find non-resident scapegoats, and where they were quick to bring any meaningful investigation to a halt.

In a way, I can understand that “island mentality.” Residents of a small island, like Aruba, have to live with their neighbors, sometimes for generations. And tourists, and security guards, and day laborers come and go. And it’s much easier to blame an outsider, when anything goes wrong.

But it seems that Aruba’s “island mentality”goes beyond that. It seems to treat tourists and outsiders as if they were of no importance whatsoever. We see headlines that read, Crisis Blown Out of Proportion, and hear the groans of Arubans who want nothing more than to see this case go away. And that is profoundly disturbing, because we are dealing with a human life here. We even have Arubans throwing debris into the water, while men from Equusearch search for possible remains of Natalee Holloway.

The way I see it, Mickey John (a Granadan) was supposed to be the fall guy in this investigation, along with his partner, Alexander Jones. And, while the residents of Aruba were quick condemn the lack of etiquette of Jug Twitty’s “Alabama posse,” when it stopped at the gate of Paulus van der Sloot in the wee hours of May 31, there was not one whimper of protest (or outrage) when 14 police officers rammed down the door of Mickey John in a “pre-dawn raid” and arrested him in his underwear. Not one whimper of protest.

Not one Aruban has come forward to express outrage at that double standard. Not one Aruban has come forward to apologize to Mickey Jones. Not one.

http://www.cellphoneresourcelist.com

heavyheart, I don't know where they have the 90% coverage, but uhm, I haven't quite noticed that. I switched back to Setar pronto (much to my chagrin, because I wanted to give my money to another company).
I was standing in ORANJESTAD and I didn't have coverage.

Second, do we  know that the boys HAD Digicel or did they have Setar?

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

OK..Bill is suffering from MPD...I do not know the name of this particular personality, but rumor has it he is related to Sybil...

arubagirl,
you heard from people or officially on the radio or TV? Because the police didn't know until 9 pm that night.

Do you know if he has a business or anything?  I'm thinking he may be pictured in some of the sites of Joran and Deepak but I don't know what to look for.

SandraK who posts here says she knows Steve.  She described his as "very nice...but dumb as a box of rocks."  Interesting.

IF YOU PURCHASED A NEW CELLPHONE over the past 18 months or so, odds are that one of the features listed in small print on the side of the box was "E911 capable." Or, as in the case of my latest Motorola, "Location technology for piece [sic] of mind." Perhaps you asked the salesman to explain the feature, and he replied that it means that cops can home in on your phone in case of an emergency, a potentially important perk should you ever find your hand pinned beneath an immovable boulder in rural Utah, as Aron Ralston did recently. Assuming he could have gotten a signal, an E911-capable phone might have saved the young backpacker the pain of having to amputate his own arm.

they going to shut down Cingular wireless  sure i beleave that   I was looking at phones today for my mother  thay are selling phone with out gps now in alabama

Which part of "what do we have this confirmed from?"  did you have in mind?  MSM reported he was brought in for questioning and released.
Rumors, all the rest.  Arubagirl reported some of the rumors.  
**Believe we know for sure that his (step?) father had a car business and committed suicide several years ago.  Rumored to have drug problems and/or to have been involved with drugs.
**Lorenzo van Rijn (van Gijn) rumored to be the illegitimate son of PDVS, about 26-27 years old.
**At one point there was a picture of a spraypainted house shown on Fox, the day they pulled in Lorenzo for questioning; at this point, someone (rumor, unremembered source) said he was crazy, people were very afraid of him.  
So, there you have what I know.  What I speculate is another thing.

As usual, pinemeadows, I suspect that you may be in urgent need of a group hug.

edit to give up on image. (((((((pinemeadows)))))))))  will have to suffice. :)

Professor.

THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE LOCAL. NOT!LOCAL!

I don't see the need to apologize to Mickey Jones, as I don't see where I wronged him.

Second, we don't want the case to go away, we want the U.S. media to go away. Or start being consistent.

Also, the boys aren't considered to be local.

I know after training for a phone company, I was like GREAT.  That is how Scott Peterson was tracked a lot, along with other things, but GPS was used in case.

klaassend, his late father owned the VW dealership here.

Also, the boys aren't considered to be local.

I believe that, Arubagirl.  Thanks for posting it, as I think it's a distinction that gets missed.

I gotta hand it to Reuben. I thought she showed great restraint as Bill continued to rant and rave.

Deep inside, when Bill started in on him for about the 5th time, I would have loved to hear Reuben saying, "Excuse me, Mr. O'Reilly but **** OFF!!!"

You don't have to have good signal, you just have to have a high saturation of towers to track most new phones.  The phone will connect with the tower with the best signal.  This information is logged and you can get a general idea of the path of a phone.

It will tell LE if the boys truely did seperate or if they were together for the time in question.  

The carrier does matter though.  The phone won't connect to a carrier tower that it is not looking for.

I think it was the DUTCH press (as in from Holland), not the Arubans doing this.

Arubagirl was referencing Setar, a provider...point was that the 15 towers may not be attributable to Setar.  Don't fire too soon or your crack pipe might explode in your face.

http://www.setar.aw/setar.jsp?pg=commtools

if true, this was very badly handled.  they reported the thing 12 hours later!  what is beach patrol?  where was holiday inn management and security?  this just shows aruban hospitality industry used to people going missing and then reappearing after they sober up.  no wonder "jug" was compelled to get down there and fnd natalee.  the people on the ground were inept.  holiday inn general manager should have been on the phone to neighboring hotels and to senior police officials first thing that morning.

I have gone to google news, yahoo news everywhere short of nexus at this point. I can find no article that states he was even questioned. I haven't seen his name in print anywhere. Unless I just missed this incredibly important part of the case it doesn't exist. I would like to see what anyone else came up with.

writenow, I could swear that I heard it around 6pm.

I know that I was sitting at my computer and it was still light out when my friend called me.

The thing about the boys was the next day, I think.

Then I am still looking for that link from someone earlier today that said this was on FOX and CNN at noon the very same day she was found to be missing, the day the flight left that she wasn't on.  And I am still asking then why on earth there was any story made up by the time Beth got to the VDS home.  Some speculated that the police may have given them a heads up since the chaperone had notified the police and VDS has police contacts.  But as I said before, Papa was in bed asleep, Joran was possibly not even home (some speculate that he was).  If police would have given a heads up (?), then it would have had to have been after 9 and I doubt, given the circumstances, they would have had time to make up this story and Papa would have been relaxed enough to be in bed asleep having just heard about this a few hours before.  So, back to the concept of "If they did no wrong, why make up a story before anyone even knew she was missing?".

I'm pretty sure it was never reported in the US press.  I think ArubaGirl was our source that Lorenzo was questioned.

Well, drats!   I won't even go into the merits/issues of having GPS devices put on children as that was well-debated earlier, but there have been times in the past when I quasi-seriously threatened to investigate the possibility if my then 21-year-old daughter went on any more three week trips without letting me know where she was.
So, when I saw the above post, first I read "must have GPS" and think "Whooppee!"  Then I read not Cingular, not in Alabama, shucks.

Sorry for not being more specific, I was referring to where we had heard specifically from the MSM that Lorenzo van Rijn had been questioned.  I don't remember hearing his name in any MSM and I have been watching since day one.  I had heard reports of people being questioned, but never any specific names.

Yup. I was.

I'm not sure that he is still the son of Paul. Years don't match.

arubagirl, do you know if the Kalpoe brothers' father is in the business of importing and exporting cars?

And do you know if they started the ferry service in March that goes between Aruba and Venezuela?

Arubagirl your comment re what is local caught my eye...what is "local" then? Are the VDS's local?  Are any Hollanders local?  Is Arubagirl local?

OK...if you want to elaborate, that'd be great, too.  Thanks.

writenow, I have no idea what the father Kalpoe does for a living.

And I'm not sure that there is still a ferry.

Motive.

Motive (Courtesy of Legal-Explinations.com)
n. During a criminal investigation, the reason most likely why someone committed a crime. For instance, jealousy, greed, revenge, or part of a theft. Evidence of a motive is admissible at trial, but it is not necessary to have proof of a motive in order to prove a crime.  (my highlight)

I highlight the above to make the following point.  Why would a suspect abduct a person such as Natalee or rape a victim?  It is because of [/i]hate or a means to inflict pain, humiliation or perhaps revenge on another person or those associated with that person.

What could possibly motivate Joran Van der S to commit such a crime?  How much does he like the U.S. ?  Is he hurt because his former American girlfriend dumped him?  Did he love her?  Did this cause him great pain?  His mother said that the girl broke it off saying something similiar to that Joran was to weak and that she needed a "stronger man".  Does this woman look at all like Natalee Holloway or is a victim from America enough of a motive?  I hear that being labeled weak in Aruba is especially humiliating.  So, is humiliation part of the motive too?  What about Paris Hilton, his obsessions with her too.  Is that his view of America?  Not all of the girls that party are one in the same.  Yes, believe it or not I've heard that a good many do in fact say "NO".  

Who would be so malicious to use a drug on a person to render her helpless and foce sex upon her just for pleasure?  Could it be that he feels weak and powerless?  Weak and without any self-control?  So, he gets into shoving matches and slams people into walls while they are guests to his island?  He feels no shame for any of this???  Why should he?  He has no regard for the law or the rules of his community on and on.  Why should he, he's broke them at will and noone holds him accountable, including the Polis.  He drinks much.  Alcoholics have no control of themselves, this we know. CC's looks the other way. He gambles and finds himself behind the eight-ball and risking yet more.  On a Sunday night he looses some more........the ball gets bigger, makes him mad.

He looks for someone to blame, everybody but HIMSELF.  Will it be a victim he redirects his anger towards? He is in therapy to manage his anger, his rage.

I've judged a few people in my life. Joran doesn't tell the often if ever or at least when he knows he's at fault. We are to presume he would not lie some more?  What father, what member of the court would expect a suspect to not tell the truth?  They take everybody down a notch with what you do.  So much so that some would soon pull the plug, to retaliate and forego vacationing in fear they have no recourse. But, you've done it so many times you do it again....Looking out for your self-interrests, you and dad.

No body.  No crime?  That's denial ladies and gentlemen.

we don't even know his name and considerable late night monkey power was applied to this guy.   with little to show for it.  are we sure we know everybody who was questioned.  ms. croes told us they are constantly questioning people.

LOL...**** OFF right back into your "no spin zone"!!!!!

I'm far from a Michelle Malkin fan, but I thought her take was relatively tame, though I can understand the offense taken.  I've read some blogs on the matter that are simply hateful.

Hi Shellbell,
About that imaginary GPS "law"... I thought you are doing some confusion with a cellular technology incorporated in the new phones: see GPRS.
Now, as some of us already posted here, ANY cell phone COULD BE traced due to the "trigonometric" implantation of the towers. :wink:

PS - GPS is satellite "tracing" and what you are trying to tell us is a complete different concept (used since the beginning of the cell phones use and always available to the LE agencies) but now regulated by the specification E911 http://www.fcc.gov/911/enhanced/

That was Greta's point.

I have too, goon.  Some, BTW, who basically flat out call this whole thing a farce of unmentionable magnitude. I copied one to Red over the weekend that literally had my jaw hanging whilst I read it.

Maybe PVDS came to Aruba on business and had an affair with Lorenzo's mom??

I'm accepted as local for the sake of my parents. But the fact that I was born in the Netherlands as opposed to Aruba is like, ooh, okay, you're not really Aruban.

Considered local: You were born here. You're parents have lived here for a long time (15 years not enough). You speak Papiamento fluently and without an accent, you celebrate the same things, you know the Aruban anthem, you work here. Also, Joran van der Sloot's father was 'send' here by Holland. So, he didn't come because he wanted to. Not local.

My mother's definition is much more strict. She's like 3 generations at the minimum.

I think there is some confusion in terminology on this cell phone gps issue.  Like ShellBell was saying all new phones must have the ability to be tracked to a tower(s) as they are used.  However, I think some people are interpreting that to say that on the main menu of their phone it should say GPS, or something along those lines, hit that button and get a gps location.  Two totally different things.

And who in the heck still has a bag phone, LOL?

And, O'Reilly wouldn't let her speak it...Greta, as a bright person knowing she'd be on in 2 hours, shined it on and let O'Reilly just be his self-loathing-self and embarrass his ass in front of a world-wide audience.

G'nite Monkey Monsters, I sure hope you solve this case soon. Play nice together now.    :lol:

Regarding the cell phone GPS.  You may not even know that your phone has it.  We had a truck stolen last year, and the phone was in it.  That evening, I called our carrier, Cingular Wireless, and ask if they could tell if the phone had been used.  They said they could tell us the following day.

The next morning when I called, they said it had been used, and in 48 hours, they could tell us what towers were used to connect.  I was surprised, as we didn't know anything about GPS, and the phone was already a year old.  

It unfortunately, was not the reason we found the truck or the thieves, but it was nice to know that it works.  And as far as I know, it works WAY faster now.  

Sorry, do not know how it works anywhere else, just how it worked in Georgia.

Thanks for that definition. :)

The fact that this person chose to deliver his or her message under the cloak of an African God and in riddles is of no consequence to me.  Well that's not exactly true; it is very entertaining.  It is the message itself which I find compelling.  As far as the cuisine is concerned you've got me ting.  All I know is that the Hatians will take a perfectly good fish and let it rot on a stick in the sun before eating it and the Cubans will take the same rotted fish and iron it before consuming it.

you can buy phones with gps on them in alabama   but not all phone have it

First thing in the morning??!?!?!  Natalee's friends and trip companions didn't notice that she was missing at noon. For peach sake.

It's a hotel patrol. And Fisherman's Hut isn't Marriott.

That was the ORIGINAL report. Dutch photographers. Later reports said they weren't sure WHO was throwing debris into the water. And if you stop to think about it, you realize that Dutch photographers would have no motivation to do such a thing, and every motivation to maintain a professional attitude, when on the job, because there's alway the possibility that any hooliganism would be CAUGHT ON TAPE. Think about it.

There is a post on here from earlier today that very much tied in this last name of Lorenzo to an area in Holland where VDS was known to have been living at the time Lorenzo would have been born.  I don't remember who the poster was, but they pointed out that if Lorenzo were conceived by PVDS and mother then married before Lorenzo was born, that last name is very known in that same area where PVDS was located at that time.  Don't know, myself, just repeating what I read in a post here earlier when the age of Lorenzo was brought into question according to when PVDS moved to Aruba.  Did Lorenzo's family come from Holland too?

And Arubans of course, are all rude and obnoxious and would glady throw things in the water.

Love you too, professor.

"Considerable late night monkey power!"  ROLF!  Well put

Noon? I heard much earlier. All of their flights had left before noon I believe.   So they would have had to have noticed by then.

Thanks, Arubagirl... BTW, you never did tell me whether my "avatar", the Aruba flag...was really an Aruba flag...it's main color is a muted violet...I've been flying it...is that the Aruban flag?  LOL

quote]
Actually, I agree with you.  I think SC ran into Deepak at the internet cafe and Deepak gave him a copy of the alibi email.[/quote]

Maybe they paid him off to lie and colaborate with Deepak. :?:

Whitney, it was, and thanks a lot for flying it.

It was 12 noon and there is a flight that leaves 2pm.

I bet daddy EDITED - USE HIS NAME RB was smart enough to tell dutch-bag to turn his phone off even with out gps  they can track to the tower the cops would have some ideal where to look for natalee

I would have thought the "critical" phase would have been the first 24 hours.

Stupid reporters.

Well said professor, excellent points...

we are definatly dealing with completly different value sets or morals than we are used to in the States. SC's comments should tell you alot, he's laughing about the whole thing...

I was reading the other day about thier plans to deport the unemployed to deal with some  undesirable activity (uhh that mean crime?)
pretty crappy solution...

However, Dash did say that they had to meet in the lobby at 8:30  to count heads and head to the airport and this is when they became alarmed that Natalee wasn't there.

Nh's mom said this on radio station today (Sorry Red)

ArubaGirl,

Not to harass but is the social structure in Aruba considered a Caste society?

We have a whole thread dedicated to the Deepak email in the main thread.

Edited-Absolut

But also remember DF, that Dash said there were 2 flights and when Natalee was not there for the first flight they thought maybe she would show up for the second.

The message itself I agree is disturbing. Although I have not adopted a pet theory, I do not discount the possibility that should the investigation take certain turns, it could impact some business interests that are international both in scope and political sensitivity.

If you are not enchanted by appalling fish dishes, beware gefilte fish, and its evil frosty cousin, lutefisk. ;)

edited to fix the annoying quotenesting

Also, I'm not trying to diss Dash, but according to me they could have taken: Aruba-Miami-Birmingham or Aruba-Atlanta-Birmingham (if that flight still exists)

If it was Aruba - Miami, there is a flight that leaves at 9, so meeting at 8.30 in the lobby would be way.too.late. the next Aruba-Miami flight leaves at two. The Aruba-Atlanta flight leaves at 3.30 (I think).

I understand what you are saying. Perhaps Joran and the Kalpoe brothers are not considered full-fledged Arubans. Perhaps there is some ambivalence about them, among the natives. But it appears that, whatever their status is, it is much greater than that of a mere tourist, or security guard or day laborer.

EDITED RB :  PROFESSOR NO PERSONAL ATTACKS - ARUBAGIRL IS NOT THE ENTIRE ISLAND.

 

on tv natalees roomies said they were worried early and expressed their concerns to chaperone.

Absolutely.  I may question the values and morals of the 3 sitting in jail and a few others involved, but never the Aruban people who have shown up more than once to help this family find their daughter.

Thanks RB.....

Having GPS and E911 compatable are the same thing.  Called my old boss to make sure.  And yes they do have to be on the new cell phones.

First question.. Personally ashamed, no. And does the other security guard not count or something? Do I think the cops were wrong, yes. Tell me, do you feel ashamed for everything that the cops in your country do wrong/

Second question: In order not to give myself a heart attack typing a response that does not include swear words or mean things, I'm going to call it a night.

Good night.

(deleted)

Night arubagirl.....THANKS for all your input  :)

That was just plain WRONG

While Fox was just now interviewing Dave Holloway, the identification line said "Natalee Holloway's Step Father".   :shock:

I had a phone call, left awhile ago at page 12 and now you're at 34!!!  No matter how fast I peddle I can't keep up!!!

Yikes.

Good point.

Tim Miller from Equusearch was just on Larry King with Nancy Grace and he said he was hopeful about their search tomorrow in the ocean and they just showed Joran Van Der Sloot being transported by car today and he looked up at the camera and he seemed to be smiling! I don't think he realizes what kind of trouble he might be in.
Great job by Martin Savidge on MSNBC tonight getting that interveiw with the maiin prosecuter!

Joy

Oh my, what a mess this is getting to be.

we have never gotten the straight story on the timeline that morning.  dan reihl's account is the closest we have gotten and it is off on some points.

Search back to some of WWizard's early posts and shudder.  24 hours and "poof!"

H & C on Fox just interviewed Dave Holloway...caption on bottom of screen ID'd him as Natalee's Stepfather...ugh!

Anyway, Dave said he wasn't aware of 'no body, no conviction'.  He also said that he believes that the 3 boys had help, and wouldn't rule anyone out.  They are still looking.

STill have to log in twice to get in here....back to TV..will be back.

I'm not sure now if they met in the lobby at 8:30 or 10:30. Another report said they met at 10:30. Anybody know which is correct?

Nothing 5 DAYS didn't cure :)  Carry on......

Phone OFF??? Well... then it's better the cops bring a CHAIR to wait for the signal. 8)

Professor:

I find your posts to be so edgy and many times border on inappropriate.  I'm sorry, but I have a very hard time with the undercurrent in your posts.  It always seems like you have a hidden agenda.

Just my opinion.

communicate better?

I don't think I generalized the Arubain people by selecting SC in my comment.
communicate this:  SC is a pos. an insensitve, selfserving,
liar at the very least.

I have previously describe the locals as "wonderful people"
thier assigned (not elected) officials are the ones in question.

inflamatory maybe, but I'm not the racist in this situation.

I hope those liars rear ends are incurably inflamed...

write...there were 2 groups (different planes) that flew out at different times.

with out gps  you can still tell what towers the cell phone  was close to