Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

It's lonely in here.

Woops, getting my Croes mixed up. Cell phone Croes said that.

Not for long, lol

No crematorium on the island

Garbage is dumped.

The email was created to substantiate the story they made up.

That's the best news I've heard all day.

What I don't get is that if PVDS tells JVDS when he called JVDS at the casino that Natalee's family is there looking for her with police and posse, JVDS knows at that moment that she's missing.

so why does Greta think this is shocking that he "had a story ready even though it wasn't on the news yet" - you don't need the media to tell you she's missing when the cops and family are in your front yard telling you this

Is it all dumped on the island? Man, there must be a huge dump someplace.

Tylenol anyone?

I need a fact board JUST to keep track of the name Croes.

So she was drunk and doing drugs, yet all of her friends who saw her said she looked fine. :roll:

I wish Greta would do a timeline for what Joran and the K Bros. did on Monday. We know Joran went to school, but what about after that? What were Joran and Deepak doing until the wee hours of the morning? Were they really at the casino (easily verified)?

Plug for the book...again...

I think they need to take the scent dogs (blood hounds?) to all of the places known for after-parties.

A lot of it is recycled, and it's a pretty big landfill.

Open 24/7, monitored.

Sorry get that low life Mark Furhman off of FOX - Greta does not need him - she does fine without that sorry excuse for a cop!!  excuse had to vent a little!

No crematorium at the cemetary?

Because the kids all came up with the story at the same time according to deepak, so they couldnt have come up with that night when the family first arrived.

Yeah, for real..and better yet, what was PVDS doing during that day? hmmm... :shock:

Well my friends, I will keep praying for Natalee to return. We are leaving in the am for the Indy area. Everyone have a good 4th!

Let's bring Natalee home soon.

I think that it's been pretty well established that the HI story was a lie, but this proves that it was a lie that was thought of way in advance and Greta is finally touching on the point that it was a lie made up before press had even reported or police had officially been contacted about her missing.  Other than that, the interview was a good one I thought.  He was repeating what Joran told him (lie) but this guy seemed to be telling the truth about what he saw and heard.  And he DID say that Joran was VERY uncomfortable while being questioned.

I think Greta means that the three boys had concocted an alibi, some lies, even before the people arrived at his home.

I think she is saying they knew something had gone wrong before the Holloways arrived.

consciouness of guilt.

Joran's story to blame the victim.  I really doubt she was taking drugs on her own accord...if she had them in her system it was because he put them there.

Oh, Arubagirl...you're so, umm, blunt Life's like that, though.

OK elsewhere I am seeing an interpretation that Charles Croes received a call from an individual in the US that he does not name.

And Greta apparently had to agree to just let all that slide and edit out sizeable chunks of his interview just to get what we saw.

Sorry, but as the young folks say, this looks "totally bogus"

Is this the petition that the radio station started?

Agreed. Although I wouldn't doubt that she was drinking.

Cemetary, what cemetary? Freemason, government, Catholic, Jewish or Protestant?

There wasn't enough time on Sunday night to hide her body so well, IF the trio is guilty. But we have no idea what they were doing for a good part of the day and night on Monday. Maybe this is when they hid her.

Then again, I am still considering the possibility that they are not guilty...

Hi ever body!  Big news night! What Greta is fixxin to say is my point exactly!  He made his lies before he had reason to know anything was wrong! I see that is a shared view!  
I'm looking forward to seeing what y'all have to say, bout that!

for the kidnap theory fans - this guy Charles Croes said he was called because he ran a rental cell phone company on the island and the Twitty's know him (I think I got that right) and they wanted info "about a cell phone call" - since clearly Natalee's cell phone was not from one of this guy's phone (and the "chaperone" had Natalee's cell phone and was using it to call her family) what phone call could CC be refering to???

He was very carefully not saying more than "a phone call" and Greta was too - sounded as if they had an agreement that she would not ask about that phone call as part of the interview - or so it sounded to me.

so --- ransom call?

Where they bury people...often they also cremate them.

Holiday Inn story - BOGUS
2 Black Guards - Scapegoats
Deepak Email - papertrail of alibi
Natalee on Drugs - BOVINE MANURE
Mariott - Probably never went there
Lighthouse - Probably never went there
Paul Van Der sloot - accomplis - who did he call in the following days?
Joran - Guilty
Deepak - Guilty
Satish - Guilty by association

Crime - murder, rape - diisorganized cant get story straight
Criminals - Deepak, Joran,Satish, Paul, and whoever disposed of the body
Crime Scene/victim - Absent - organized-  unable to locate

Joran is telling a lie before the first news cycle.   Greta wants an innocent explanation.   Furman can't figure it out.  Ok, here's an innocent explanation:

If we assume that Joran is innocent (go with me here), why would he lie?   He has just been confronted by the parents of NH, the police, and an angry Alabama mob at 2:00 in the morning.   So perhaps he doesn't want to admit in front of his parents and her parents that he had sex with her.  There could be many reasons he would not want to admit it, including not wanting to talk about his sexual exploits in front of his parents, not wanting to talk about NH having sex in front of her parents, etc.  

So, he makes up a story about dropping her off at the HI.  Then once the mob leaves, Dad talks to him and tells him that he needs to be honest and tell the truth.  Dad assumes the first story is the truth, so Joran figures that that he can just convince his friends to go along with the story to keep the fact that he took her to the beach to have sex a secret.  In his mind, nothing happened to her once he left her on the beach, so it seems like a little white lie.   He's too young to know about the %$W&@-storm that is about to hit him.

Of course, if you think he's definitely guilty, this theory will seem as wacky as someone believing in Scientology.

I dont think they did..i dont think, if there was a body, that it was disposed of until later when Joran was at school..and I STILL think PVDS did it...IMHO.....

At the begining of this interview he was talking about a cell phone call to or from the US.  Was Joran asking about this or BHT?  How and why did he come into contact with BHT?

OOOweeee..RB what did you do?? :wink:  Go get you some 'taters'....lol

Your missing the point, he made up the story with his friends before he even knew the girl was missing.

It's Paulus VDS and his son..."obstructing the lady prosecuter from the NL..."  I guess...No?

That's what we get from the USa....since you're our thoughts and minds...thanks...Arubagirl, please tell us what's goin' on!

hugs, Whitney

What I have to say is that any story that starts with some blurry babble about a mysterious phone call from a mysterious person either from the US and/or about a call from another un-named person to or from the US, with no detail about what the question was, or clarity on the caller's identity, that results in Charles Croes and an un-named young man driving around with the just-arrived Holloway family adds, by my calculations, a total of 0 to the fact total and causes the bullshit meter to explode.

How do you know Natalee didn't rent a cell phone from Charles Croes' company? The majority of U.S. cell phones don't work in Aruba, so you have to rent a cell phone.

First of all, this is not really "news", isn't this? We all knew Joran made up the HI story on May 31st at 3AM.

Theory #1: Joran is innocent. He made up the story, because he didn't really remember what happened (he was drunk). he thinks that HI story is easier to explain.

Theory #2: Joran is guilty. He knew the police interrogating him, was a matter of time. On May 30, he made up the story with the Kalpoes (and maybe PvdS? It seems like PvdS has nothing to do with the HI story).

<<

No mention of the friend who was with NH at the casino or even of their going to C&C or did I miss that entirely?

Aye caramba. THAT's why they knew from the beginning this was different.

If he didn't know she was missing, or something had happened, why would he have to make up a STORY at all????

Well blame the victim and play the victim.  Didn't he say that he felt uncomfortable that she was coming on to him???  Please!!!

Good work!

MDR!!!! (French for LMAO)

Troll - I would say that this might be possible - I just am not 100% that Joran is guilty of anything worse than being a 17 year old kid that is rather advanced in some of his partying, sex and late nites gambling. But then again so are many US teens - and most young people do not want to talk about sex with adults and never with parents or the parents of someone they might have had sex with.

So - not wanting to be naive here - but still willing to keep an open mind - I still need more evidence than what we have heard so far!

ROTFLMAO!!! with TEARS!!!!

BINGO!

That has been my point since day one!  Why HAVE A LIE rather than a truth if you have nothing to hide!
The key point in this whole deal! Sotaspeak!

excerpt, purported deepak email:

The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino).end excerpt

Now, when did they have time to make this all up?  looks like joran used it and then sold it to the other two or they cooked it up on the way back from the wyndham if that is where they were instead of out disposing of a body.  i think extasy and alcohol overdose

Well yeah...I would be too.  There is a significant difference between drugs and drinking.  Unless of course someone put drugs in your drink.

Ive been saying the email was sstory concocted to back up an alibi that wasnt even needed yet, because nobody knew Natalie was missing until the NEXT day...the only people that knew she was missing was the killers themself.

Well, I can "go with you" here for the sake of trying to figure out why an innocent person would lie, but I can't go with the embarrassment over sex, as this Charles Croes just said that there was talk of sex in regards to Joran and Natalee that night coming out of Joran's mouth.

I don't think I missed the point at all.  I'm saying that it is possible that he made up the story on the spot when confronted by the mob, and deepak was standing there with him when he made it up.   I didn't catch any part of the interview with Greta where she said that Deepack and Satish also were telling that story prior to the mob showing up.   Also, were the three guys taken in for questioning right there during the confrontation, or did the police talk to them the next day.  By the next day, I think Joran had talked to Satish and Deepak and they decided to throw in the two security guards thing as an embellishment.

Of course, if you think he's definitely guilty, this theory will seem as wacky as someone believing in Scientology

Do you think the JVDS is guilty as sin?  

He certianly seems to be, at this point.  

can someone put his ass just "there"...?  [/b[

<<

I remember where I heard it first, Mike, sotaspeak!

Ting - we're on the same wavelength


Folks are saying that "we know that the 3 boys already made up the story" but we only "know" that because Deepak told Mickey Johns that in the jail. I don't remember MJ saying that Deepak said they made up the story on the 30th -and since Deepak felt bad about getting MJ into trouble and was apologizing to MJ, I can easily see him saying "hey, the family told us what to say .." to excuse his own role in landing MJ in jail.

There are still too many questions to "know" anything ...

and I wish Fuhrman would be banned from TV - sleaze!

edited to correct typo

I'm sorry, but I doubt anyone is going to help a friend cover up an accidental death when faced with murder charges.  Satish or Deepak would have spilled the beans by now.

Would this group be devious enough to fake a ransom so that people would not start immediately looking for a body?

Key word here.....STORY

Takes me back to the old story that they all met at Joran's pool and concocted the story.  When was that suppossed to have happened?

Brians Predictions, dont know what to make of it, was looking for Nat info and came across this.  Is he on dope?  I am on Ambien.



A Boy Scout is lost in the mountains of Utah, he his very scared and cold.  Look for him at the highest point in the area that people are searching in, look for some sort of cave of group of rocks.  Not sure of anything else, but if there is a missing Boy Scout, this is when I think he is.

Maybe because an Alabama gang is getting in your face and insinuating you did something to her? Imagine if he told them then that he left her alone on the beach, acting crazy...

But guilt of what? Does Aruba have anything comparable to reckless endangerment?

Joran didn't just tell them about the drop off at the HI - he took them the family there and showed them!  I wonder why Joran and the 2 brothers were at the VDS house at that time in the morning.  He was allegedly playing poker - according to the honest judge in training - but somehow was back at the house when the family returned.  I think Joran and  the brothers were together at the house and Paul lied to the family and sent them on a wild goose chase so that the 4 of them could make up a story.  I also think that Natalee was at the house.

Pretty cut & dry to me....that about sums it up

No but I remember them saying they made the story up together.

Greta Van Sustern is doing an amazing job, "award winning" job of reporting this story!  Look where we'd be without what she has exposed!

Maybe there was a cell phone call to the HT's from a cell phone in Aruba, which they believe to have been made by Natalee.  It would explain why they are so adamant that she is alive.  But why wouldn't they just say that??

EGGZACKLY

I thought it was just Joran and Deepak.  Joran didn't have a car, so I think he used Deepak as his personal taxi service.

I think they were doing blow.

That is excellent!  Cudd'nt a said it better myseff! Sotaspeak!

OK. So what if that cellphone call was a ransom call?

That means Natalee's probably still alive somewhere.

But Joran freaks when the parents show up because he never thought they'd find HIM or the others involved with him. The ransom was supposed to be anonymous and they were all supposed to get away scott free.

But everything backfires when the family comes knocking at his door because MB kids weren't as dumb as he was counting on them to be. They remembered him and they saw the car.

if you've got nothing to hide there is NO reason to lie.  If you're innocent of any wrong doing you can prove it by telling the TRUTH.

So in Joran's case...WHICH story does he want to propose as truth?

RE:  Charles (?) Croes and cute Marianne

Between bad eyes and computer illiteracy, I can't get a good look at this photo.  Could somebody check and see if this is her in the picture w/ him.  Is she is daughter?  If so though, it may not matter.

Thanks.

http://www.arubafastphones.com/index.htm

Unless a ransom call was fake to divert the search.

That just popped in my head too, how DID Deepak & Satish wind up in the mix at the VDS house if Joran was paying poker, and "they crossed paths" was D & S w/ Joran?? Did they pick him up or were they at the Wyndam too? hmmmm....


I think my brain is fried....  :shock:

I don't think so.

If this call to CC came from the US wanting info on a phone call, can we assume that the Twitty's had rented her a phone for her stay?  After all, how would the Twitty's just happen to know this guy in Aruba with a phone company anyway?  If they infact did, which I am not sure.  Just read it earlier.

Sorry, this all ran so fast, I am sure I missed the big pic.

The point is that they made the story up before the family even got their.  I don't know anyone who can improvise a lie like that, it would have had to been rehearsed.

From what this Charles Croes just said there was not anyone in Joran's face in the beginning.  Sounded as if everything was pretty calm at the VDS house.  So, why lie?

Well if they did extacy they were doing a little blow too....it's a blend of things.

The interview tonight with Coes seems to confirm why BHT was so certain her daughter was alive and said something to the effect of "give me my daughter now".  Kids at the beach said they saw Joran with Natalee that night (Monday).  This was after she was to have gone home.

Whose contract did they say was up?

This Brian doof is full of sh|t.

Point me to the facts that confirm that they made it up before the family got there as opposed to on the fly?  I didn't hear them during the Greta interview.

Exactly!

I am not going to speculate on what Greta wanted us to get out of her Charles Croes piece, the fact that she agreed to edit out so much is notable, but I don't think the most significant thing here is what Joran said or didn't say to whom or when, but WHO called Charles Croes, and what did they say, and how did we get from that phone call to him driving around with this un-named young man and Natalee's family and making decisions to go here and go there.

Yes, that was a rant. We are all tired.

No reason to fabricate a story when there is a missing person, whom he did whatever with, he shoud have not been making up stuff to detai if he was innocent...he shoud have said the straight truth

Please keep in mind kidnappers will try to collect ransom even if their victim is already dead.  So if you believe the ransom story, dont jump to assume the victim is still alive.  

I dont believe this is a ransom issue at all.

I know who it has and has been:  CaliGirl is the "only girl" that hasn't been around for these days...(play the Spelberg "Shark" music...

Look, CaliGirl agrees, that the Aruban government is still looking and "you now that's she's alive."  

Got it?  Check the Fox News...i't only been near, 5 weeks...

Another thing to notice about the lie.  It is not like he was masking details about the night that would have been embarassing.  

He claimed that:

They made out/fondled
Their were "sexual discussions"
She was doing drugs and was drunk
He was drinking
They were dancing provocatively
She came on to him

The only thing he lied about was the location. So obviously he wasnt trying to disguise his behavior.

I suspect they aren't riding the boys hard enough during interrogations.

Joran's parents visited him in jail today without supervision. I wonder if they allowed the Kalpoe brothers to have their mom visit them too.

This doesn't look good at all.   :(

Dad calls Joran, "the family of the girl you were with last night, she's missing"
Joran gets off the phone and tells Deepak, "please just say that you dropped us off at HI, they meet with family at house, tell the HI story and Deepak goes home and asks Satish to do the same...

Story concocted.....

all else in e-mail true to Deepaks knowledge.

**Deepak worked 4-11 on Monday**

Referring to the reckless endangerment thing, I have NO idea, Ting.

That's not Mariaine. And that Carles Croes is not family of Mariaine Croes, I asked my mom, she knows that Charles Croes (or knows of him).

You got that right, Ting! :shock:

How come that Charles Croes picked up Beth Twitty? He used to be marry to an American, but is that the connection? Source: arubagirlmom

They say the Kalpoe's mother can't visit because they aren't minors.  But, I sure hope the judge ruled she could visit them.

So.. the body (natalees) could very well have been at the VDS
(in Jorans separate room) when the Holloways paid them a visit that night. They (Holloways) never entered the house or were never invited inside to wait... correct?

I wonder if she would have felt she needed to rent a cellphone!  Do ya think the other kids had them?

Deleted

This is also something peculiar.  I realize the Natalee friend's and family want to portray her in the best light...but really, everything people say about Natalee is completely true.  And I'm trying to stay objective here.

The only people that have spoken for Joran's character are his parents and possible one other girl (never saw the interview but heard something about it).

Isn't it odd that a shy girl who really hasn't had many boyfriends is "dancing provocatively" and "coming on" to an islander who is known for his romancing ways.  Even to say so far that SHE made HIM uncomfortable.

He say she was drinking, doing drugs, dancing provocatively, making him uncomfortable, wanting to leave with him...but honestly, with the facts already given about both individuals does it seem realistic that Natalee would be the one doing these things while poor Joran stood back sipping a beer???

Unless I missed it, I thought Greta was going to reveal the content of the text message sent from Joran to Deepak that evening.  Was I asleep at the wheel?

I would love to know what she knows of him. I wonder if the Aruba polis have questioned him at all.

that is why they call you wonder woman, incisive, cut ot he chase.  we need a mutually agreeable story quick.  Satish was with him in Deepak's car or were they all three out at the Wyndham hiding the body under the craps table?   they cooked it up on the fly when the Alabama delegation showed up and they were tipped off.  but they probably had at least an inkling something was terribly wrong.  e  and too much booze don't mix.

Arubagirl, not only do you have great info!!  Mom is helpin' to, huh?  

Thanks to both of you!

Have a wonderful day!

Mitzi

Good Night Monkeys

I am tired.
I want Nat home NOW
I want answers
I want Papa VDS to not be visiting Joran giving any more "advice".
I want peace and a happy ending for Beth & fam.

I'm so tired, I just want this to  end, the more I know the more confused I get :(

To beddy bye I go

Wow, that was revealing. The Police Commissioner will be moving back to Holland after July 15th and will not have to suffer the rath of the Arubian public for botching the investigation assumming that Jossey was correct.

It is always possible, I mean all her friends could have been lying and portraying a different person than she was.  But, again, it is the word of one confirmed liar versus many people.

Okay now that I am twisted, and an idiot.  The other boards Other thorie things confuses me...............I cant understand it!!!
Or its the ambien.

<<

Remember when Joren said the brothers dropped him off first and took N back to HI without him?  Yet another version.

someoneI don't believe ONE WORD that comes out of Joran's mouth!

I Just LOVE JUSTICE, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!.[/size][/b]

van der Straaten is going to go back to Neth.? I know that he was retiring, but I thought he was going to stay here.

Aw-w-w Ting...here's a group hug, okay?  

Anyway, I owe ya one.  :wink:

This was from Deepak's email:

"We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead"

I'm hoping Natalee's just being held by somebody somewhere and if they think the police are getting too close, they'll just leave her tied up next to a road somewhere and flee the country.

Maybe these guys aren't cracking in interogation because they know she's alright and alive and being taken care of.

Hey, it beats the alternative.

I think in coming up with their lie these boys had to make Natalee into a monster...of course, they think it helps support their story.  I'm well aware of the antics of teenagers...and the partying they do.  However, in this case we have NO reason to believe this depiction of Natalee.  There isn't one person who has offered evidence to contradict the way her character has been described.

I agree this is a fully concocted story.  AND, the email WW received was one of many stupid things they did to fuel this story.  I'm sure that email, if originally from Deepak, or a friend of his,  was emailed to tons of people to help support their lie.

I am personally telling you that the people that have come forward to speak on Natalee's behalf have said nothing but the truth.

It amazes me that some people are willing to believe the words of someone who has lied regarding the disappearence of a girl 8 times and who has falsely incriminated two other people, against the word of the girls family and friends.

Thanks Absolut! (just got a few CGI errors)

He wouldn't "have to talk about his sexual exploits" to simply say where he left her in an innocent but truthful way!  But for some unknown reason, he made up a well thought out premeditated LIE!  GUILTY!

He has a 1001 and one jobs, according to my mom. Several businesses one after the other.

Does anyone know who the other two Arubans are?

we need to develop this timeline too.  

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050618.html

"She had been missing less than 24 hours and we had all three names and addresses, so it's just disappointing that they weren't able to move faster," said Jody Bearman, who organized the trip to Aruba for 125 students from Mountain Brook High School and seven chaperones.

The three weren't taken into custody until 10 days after Holloway's family knew of them, and the search continued Saturday for Holloway, an honors student set to attend The University of Alabama on a full scholarship this fall.

Aruban authorities have defended their work in the nearly three weeks since Holloway failed to show up for the trip home to Alabama. Police work takes time, they have said.

Mariaine Croes, a spokeswoman for the attorney general's office in Aruba, declined comment Saturday on how authorities initially learned of the three suspects.

"We have to wait for the investigation to finish," she said. A fourth suspect, the DJ from a party boat, also is in custody.

Speaking in an interview late Friday, Bearman said Aruban authorities weren't totally to blame for their early failure to identify suspect Joran van der Sloot and the others, something she said the amateur sleuths did in less than three hours in Aruba.

"They did not know what was going on," she said. "We were there on a mission."

12 hours to Aruba

Terrified after hearing news any parent dreads, Beth Holloway Twitty landed in Aruba about 12 hours after learning her daughter Natalee had vanished during a graduation trip.


Satish Kalpoe (left), Joran Van Der Sloot (middle) and Deepak Kalpoe (right).

Accompanied by her husband and friends including Bearman on a donated corporate jet, Holloway Twitty had a few bits of information from Mountain Brook graduates who were on the trip, most importantly a physical description of a Dutch teenager — a judge's son, they thought — with whom Natalee was seen leaving a bar, Carlos 'N Charlie's, on May 30, the night she disappeared.

Bearman said the group also was told that Holloway's friends had seen the same teenager in the casino at the hotel where they were staying.

With help from some locals, Holloway's mother and the others determined the youth had been in the casino playing in a Texas Hold 'Em poker tournament, according to Bearman.

Sign in sheet

Players had to sign in, she said, and that gave them a name and initial: Joran V.

"After talking to enough people, we were able to deduce that it was Joran van der Sloot," she said. "Once we got the name we were able to track the address through people and we got the police. They escorted us and we went straight to the house."

Van der Sloot's father, Aruban judge-in-training Paul van der Sloot, said his son was out playing poker when the group first arrived at the house around 1 a.m., Bearman said. Still accompanied by police, the group went to a couple of places looking for van der Sloot before returning to the father's house and finding Joran van der Sloot there with one of the two Surinamese brothers who later were held, she said.

"Basically we interrogated him," Bearman said. "He never denied being with her."

Van der Sloot described dancing with Holloway at the bar and said "she wanted to go with me" at closing time, according to Bearman.

Van der Sloot claimed he left Holloway outside the Holiday Inn resort where the group was staying after they took a late-night trip to a scenic lighthouse, Bearman said, and he even accompanied the family to the hotel to show them the exact spot where she was dropped off.

His story didn't add up, though, according to Bearman.

"We started pressing him on that because we had students who were in the lobby until 5 a.m., and she never arrived," she said.

Questioning

While Aruban police were present during the questioning of van der Sloot, which lasted until about 3 a.m., officers left the talking to Holloway's family until things began to get "heated," Bearman said.

Van der Sloot and the Surinamese brothers — Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18 — were interrogated by police the next day and released. While they were later taken into custody, no one has been charged.

I feel strongly that they have as well, although no one can ever be 100% sure.  Girls who act the way natalee was supposed to have acted that night usually arent going to have so many friends backing up their character.

I need some of that!  I haven't slept well for the past month.

Anyone have any word on the people profile that was being built last night?

Going to sleep

Bye

I don't believe she acted this way at all.  HOWEVER, what if she did?  Does that make her less of a victim?

Yes, his dad saying she was missing would be an inkling.....

This may have already been said and if so I apologize.  I have been trying to keep up tonight.  But isn't this the "Godfather"?

Btw am I the only one who thinks that the story joran gave and the email from deepak match a little to closely.  It is almost as if one was a copy of the other.

sweet dreams, Arubagirl

When exactly ( and where) was that posted, please!

OF course not.  I'm not sure why you think I was implying that.

Nite..thanks for all your help!  :D

Ya think?? :idea:

TT, thats wonder womans e-mail remember?

Well, we know Natalee's exboyfriend was on the trip, so she had had a boyfriend. And her friends said at CnCs that she looked uncomfortable when Joran was talking to her.

just like Joran tried to "shift" responsibility of him being out late onto his mother "because she was in Holland".....hes doing the same thing by trying to portray natalee as a loose druken drug taker.....

His mind can only comprehend the fact that things are never his fault.

Even as he sits in jail for this crime, hes only thinking about what hes missing out on.  He could care less about the pain hes caused.

Considering the fact that Deepak was asked, via e-mail, if he had heard about the missing girl, and responded....I doubt that he went around emailing it to everyone he knew.....He was asked and replyed to it, for fear that the friend would OBVIOSLY see it on the "news"

Nothing would make her less of a victim...nothing.  But the story that Joran and his friends concocted of Natalee's behavior that night doesn't match the actual Natalee.  Its not just about her character and grades.. she isn't fake...her life wasn't an act.  She genuinely loved her family, school, and was well liked by her peers.
Their version of the story is just one more possible lie.  Maybe that really did happen, but the chances of that really happening are very small.

I would not characterize dancing provocatively, doing recreational drugs or drinking alcohol as a monster-making building blocks, nor would I consider that those activities would lessen the seriousness of any harm done to the individual, male or female.

However, I recognize that many people have a different view. I have read messages elsewhere that consider the entire case more of a property crime.

It is remarkable how frequently people who seem to be on opposite sides of an issue have more in common than they realize.

Hey Anna!  Ya takin names? :wink:

we have been over this ground before.  everything the three say can be taken with a grain of salt but, i am sorry, nothing i have read here makes natalee look like a monster.  she looks like millions of young people look on a saturday night all over the country.   we are not here at this point to mythify natalee or to judge her.  we are trying to figure out what happened to her so we have to think outside the box and consider all scenarios.

Nite! Thanks for stopping by!

I think many of the Alabama teens were not only covering for Natalee but for themselves as well - have you not talked to teens these days about partying - most of them act like everyone is hardly drinking or carrying on in a crazy way - obviously they did not go back to their rooms but stayed up all nite - No one missed her till departure time - I am not saying there is anything wrong with this - but I just think they all portrayed Natalee in a perfect way and perhaps she was just a normal crazy young 18 year old having a wild senior trip

And why does Beth keep harping on Joran being out drinking, gambling and partying when the Alabama teens were doing the same thing - they were both seniors - it is ok for the Americans but not the Arubans - that aggrivates me every time Beth harps on it!

And these are certainly not the people that didn't know what she was doing every night while on vacation, when she didn't return to her room?

I agree DT, that poop don't float!

nope, that's what i heard too.

I don't think dancing, drinking, etc is monster making either...BUT, in scared, guilty guy speak they chose to darken her image as part of their conjured up lie.

She didn't return to her room every night on vacation?  News to me.

Please stop exaggerating....

Agreed. Nite Diva!

Greta is on O'Rielly (sp?)  Yuck!!  He is being so rude and interrupting her.  O'Reilly will not let her speak.

O'Reilly is such a jerk. Did anyone just see him with Greta.  He makes me itch.

Where did I exaggerate. Everything I have said in that previous post is factual and has been confirmed by reliable sources.

Why are Deepak and Satish still being detained?

You went public with Deepak's e-mail only after I shared my theory on Natalee voluntarily doing X.

Did your friend ever share with you where Natalee got the X from?

Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer not to divulge this info publicly.

New/Different  Judge
New/Different  Prosecution Spokesperson
New/Different  Polis Commish

Am I missing anyone?????

Gimme a break there Cav', Seems he was purty composed, to me! Not just a little lie!  KnowwhutImean?

is this not convenient. the unsolved crime can now be blamed on the ex police chief and life can go on.

The only remedy for O'Reilly rash is a good dose of Greta :)

Source for that?

*********hands you an ambien.

Why should we believe that when the email itself is a lie?  I wouldn't be surprised if he gave a copy of the email to SC and emailed it to his friends.  Probably a suggestion of PVDS.

Maybe because Natalee was legally of age to drink and gamble in Aruba, while Joran isn't.  And of course, Natalee was on vacation, while Joran apparently does those things regularly.

Edited for grammar.

I was wrong.

Joran disposed of her body...probably walked/pushed her out to sea.  The beach is very long and shallow - you can walk out a few hundred feet.

I didn't see that before but after hearing the timeline vs. the news cycle, it is the only possible truth.

He walked home to dry off.

O'Reilly is making an ass of himself.  I think he's jealous of Greta.

What a total jerk.

Supoposedly took 30 min.s for Papa to come out to the group!  Know one knows who else was in the house??????
Hmmm smells a little like urine in here!  Sotaspeak! :wink:

I thought that the guy who talked about the tides was interesting.  I guess what he was saying was that, if you put a body into the ocean, it would float back to shore unless you went about 300 feet out.  I know 300 feet isn't that far but you would need a boat or dingy or something because obviously, you cant throw a body that far.  I wonder if the investigators have tried to recreate different scenerios of where a body might float into shore or out to sea.

DT-

Deepak states in his e-mail that the description of the casino incident with Nat came from his friend and that he was not there, so yes, they would be similar wouldn't they?  

Funny, Deepak states that was his conversation with Joran THAT night, THAT night that Natalee approached Joran is what Deepak is telling his friend. So before any of this was a story, that was what Joran told Deepak to get him to go to CnC's, to meet the girls'.....

This isn't the first time I've read this in this forum.  What is this about her not being in her room for 3 nights and no one knowing where she was?  I have never heard this information before other than a few posts on here.  What is up with this?

Nancy...you are a glutton for punishment watching that idiot twice in one night!!  :lol:

I think he is jealous.  Greta is beating the pants off Bill

so Charles Croes actually contradicts Beth's story - since Beth says they had an idea who was seen with Natalee last and went to the casino and got the name from the sign in sheets but Charles Croes claims that he met Beth at the gas station then headed with the family (but in his own car with a mysterious local boy) towards the HI to meet further but instead of going with them he decided to stop at several beaches and at one there were 3 cars and he talked to the people (kids?) with the cars and describes Deepak's car and the kids on the beach say "oh yeah, that's Joran" and then give him Joran's address - he then claims he went to Joran's house (but did not approach?) and calls Beth who says come back to the HI which he does and then they all get together and go back to Joran's house with posse and polis ...

methinks CC is trying to look important and is making things up since I do trust BTH's account of her own timeline for that night

I do not know about Nancy... but I lnly watch him for what Gretta has to say.
And Yes  Billy O. is a Donkey's back side. BUT is his right to be that ....

How do you know that?  YOu are assuming Deepak is telling the truth about that part.  Why should we believe that when he has already lied.  Your friend didn't get the email until after all of this was out in the open. They could have made up the stuff before C&C just as easily as the stuff after that we know they did.

All of those claims COVER FOR his behavior. How does he know that Natalee was using drugs that night? Is he a DOCTOR now, too? Can he make a clinical diagnosis? Did he watch her take something in the, ahem, "limited" time he was so "reluctantly" with her?

He is covering for giving her drugs and taking advantage of her sexually.

I take some heart in the thought that this SEEMS to indicate that he thought it possible she would be found.

I missed him the first time around tonight...but, honestly some nights I do watch the shows  twice so I can hear the interviews again.

This is an illness.  I think my kids might call for an intervention.

Splain "kids on the beach", please!??

From what I gather, Natalee did not drink when in AL.  She is a tiny girl and even a little bit of alcohol, especially since she didn't have any kind of tolerance, would possibly make her do things she wouldn't normally do.  I'm not saying she was completely wasted and I'm NOT saying that it would make her lose her inhibitions so much that she would have sex with Joran, but it would most likely make her quite a bit less shy and more flirty than usual.

I am with you on that, DF. I have read that in here more than once. Have we ever heard from Natalee's "actual" roommates?

Those things will not darken her image with decent people of goodwill.

Hi All

Just popping in tonight.  Hope you all are well.

I have two questions in response to Beth's interview with Aruban Radio (article on SM home page).  Maybe they have already been answered and someone can fill me in or help me figure this out.

#1 - Beth states that as soon as she was called by the chaperone at 12:00 stating that NH wasn't in the hotel lobby she knew Natalee was kidnapped and called the FBI.

Doesn't that seem like an odd first reaction?  Wouldn't you think maybe still hanging out with friends, could have had an accident, being irresponsible, etc.  But to automatically know there has been a kipnapping and call the FBI???  This seems very weird to me.  Anyone else?

#2 Beth stated that she didn't have any contact with Natalee while she was on her trip.  OK that seems weird to me too.  I know during my Spring Breaks or any trip I took even in my 20's I called my Mom just at least once if not more, just to let her know we made it and we were ok.  Maybe their relationship was different, but I would think all parents would expect a phone call.  Right??

I've never once seen a source for the claim that Natalee stayed out 3 nights.  Yet some people like to continually present it as a fact.

Where did I exaggerate. Everything I have said in that previous post is factual and has been confirmed by reliable sources.[/quote]

What's your point, Ting?

I agree.  My guess is that either A) Joran drugged her or B) He's saying she was on drugs to try to soil the reputation of his victim

errr what about Dash, she had stated that there was no door in Natalee's room leading to the outside to the beach, yet Greta expose on Natalee room it had...

I don't think it contradicts. They were both doing fact finding separately. And they both came up with the same name and information separately. Beth was meeting with an FBI guy at the hotel and looking at casino video while the Charles was on the beach talking to people. She called him back so they could all pool info.

Doesn't contradict.

[/quote]

That was confirmed by the lawyer from one of the brothers on CNN. Plenty of people saw it.  He said that Joran had changed his story 8 times and that he had made major changes 4 times.  THere are a lot of people here who can attest to hearing the same thing.

Well, the only thing I have heard from them was in the interviews on TV...were those the roommates?  Not sure.  But I don't recall ever hearing from them...so how on earth would anyone surmise that she wasn't in her room every night?

#1 - No, does not sound wierd to me
#2 - I believe Beth was also out of town...remember this trip was only 4 or 5 days..not very long.  Cellphones didn't work.

I've never once seen a source for the claim that Natalee stayed out 3 nights.  Yet some people like to continually present it as a fact.[/quote]


I remember Dash saying that there was a lot of room switching going on so it was hard to say who was in who's room on any given night, but I don't remember anything about Natalee specifically.  Anyone have a source?  I don't remember anyone saying that she wasn't in the hotel on those nights, just that she might have been in a room that wasn't her own with other MB kids.

[/quote]

WW - Satish's attorney stated that Jaron has had eight different stories, with four of them being significantly different.

I thought that Beth had gotten the decription of Joran from the Twitty cousins, then reviewed the security camera tape from the Holiday Inn casino and spotted the guy who fit their description.

That was confirmed by the lawyer from one of the brothers on CNN. Plenty of people saw it. He said that Joran had changed his story 8 times and that he had made major changes 4 times. THere are a lot of people here who can attest to hearing the same thing.

WW, DT is correct that this was reported in an interview this evening.

Errr.. why would the kids say Deepaks car and associate it with Joran? Joran did not have a car...else Joran gets lots of lifts?

I thought the Bama gang got the Van Der Sweat's address from the casino/poker room on that first night? Now this guy on Greta says he got it from some random kids at the beach?

My 21 year old daughter has been touring Europe for the last 6 weeks and we talk twice a week and email the other days. But when she was 18, I'm not too sure she would have.

Iquitos:
we have been over this ground before. everything the three say can be taken with a grain of salt but, i am sorry, nothing i have read here makes natalee look like a monster. she looks like millions of young people look on a saturday night all over the country. we are not here at this point to mythify natalee or to judge her. we are trying to figure out what happened to her so we have to think outside the box and consider all scenarios.<<

And we are doing that but some of us are discarding this one as typical of Joren--blame somebody else.  Note he says SHE was doing drugs, not WE and SHE was coming on to ME, and so forth.  Why is he lying about her in that manner?  To make her appear the aggressor and therefore responsible for whatever happened next.  Not only is this out of character for N but she had a witness who said it did not happen.

Yes, the friend of Natalee could be the one lying, right?  But we have no reason to believe that whereas we know in hindsight that Joren told four different veriosns at least of what happened whereas the frield's story remains consistent.

After all, this was the Sunday afternoon in the casino when she had her girlfriend with her who said NH only introduced herself and talked to him and certainly was not doing drugs.  What happened to NH friend in this version and even C&C?

But two places I would bet she was not that night would be the lighthouse and beach.

I dont think where she got his address is significant to figuring out who committted the crime.

According to Dr. Baden the body would have risen to the top in the warm waters of Aruba by now if that was the case.

Where did I exaggerate. Everything I have said in that previous post is factual and has been confirmed by reliable sources.

errr what about Dash, she had stated that there was no door in Natalee's room leading to the outside to the beach, yet Greta expose on Natalee room it had...

Clearly dash was lying to try to cover up the horrible secret that Natalee *gasp* had a hotel room that opened up to the beach.  That makes perfect sense.  

EDITED:  IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO QUOTE THIS WHOLE THREAD....2 DEEP SHOULD BE ENOUGH - rb

Come on use your head here.  It is more likely that she misspoke or that we misread what she said than her making up a lie about such a trivial detail.  There is no camparison at all to what the boys did.[/b]

WW - Satish's attorney stated that Jaron has had eight different stories, with four of them being significantly different.[/quote]


Just a guess, but perhaps the interrogators are leaning hard on Joran, and either tired or confused is confessing and changing to anything the interrogators leading him.

Klassend-

The part that is a lie is the HI part. THE HI PART.......maybe if you would look at some of the rest of the e-mail, and stop debating "the lie" you may find other answers.

The boys were asked ONE BY ONE to drive with police the same route as that night, they did not know they would be asked to do that.

Maybe they had received this mysterious phone call from the cellphone in Aruba. And maybe it was a ransom call which they thought might be a fake. And then right after that the chaperone calls and tells her Natalee's missing and she suddenly knows the ransom call wasn't a fake.

Tom addressed this today in the previous thread. I would suggest that we keep these type of comments about specific posters off the board.

There was an interview with Beth, at the beginning of all this where she made a comment that included verbiage similar to:  'we want her to be proud of us', and I thought that was odd or weird after arriving in Aruba 12 hours after Nat's disappearance....wondered why that would come into the picture,why wouldn't Nat be proud of her parents, regardless.... but maybe that's just me....yes, I see your point...

One word i'd add bout the "Bovine Manure", is "Willingly"!!

It would have risen to the top of the water quickly - not after a month.  With the current and wind, her body would be somewhere off of the eastern coast of central america within 3 days.  That would be Thrusday 3 WEEKS AGO.

If someone called me with a ransom call regarding my daughter and she was in another country, the last thing I would do would assume its fake.  Id be on the phone to the FBI that minute then trying the hotel to verify if my daughter checked out or was on her plane.

who cares?  Dash must be mistaken. I'm sure many of the rooms did not open onto the beach.  It's human error, remember that?  Dash would have NO reason to lie.

Give me 5 heavy duty truck batteries, a 5 gallon bucket of water, 1 set of jumper cables, 2 quarts of isopropyl alcohol and 1 uninterrupted hour with Urine Van Der Stool Sample and I'll tell you what happened to Natalee if indeed he does know.  If he doesn't know then 4 weeks in the hospital and a big box of chocolates ought to make it all right.

The problem is when you lie about one thing, especially something of this importance and severity you lose any and all credibiltiy.  So don't expect anyone to buy everything except the HI part.

I have no idea...that's my point. Until I hear from the actual roommates otherwise, she was in her room every night!!

and the car natalee was last seen in belongs to deepak kalpoe not joran so how do the kids on the beach identify joran through the car?

Why don't we just drop the discussion.  We will never agree on Deepaks involvement.

Wouldn't such information be considered evidence, in Aruba as well as the US?

It seems to me that it would be an important piece of the puzzle.

I thought I'd heard that she changed roommates once. And then everyone was socializing with everyone else and people were crashing for the night in their friends' rooms. If she was up late talking in one room, maybe she thought it would be nicer to sleep there instead of waking up her 3 other roommates.

Wonder Woman,

Did you friend say if other friends of Natalee's were rolling, too, that night?

I remember Dash saying that there was a lot of room switching going on so it was hard to say who was in who's room on any given night, but I don't remember anything about Natalee specifically.  Anyone have a source?  I don't remember anyone saying that she wasn't in the hotel on those nights, just that she might have been in a room that wasn't her own with other MB kids.[/quote]

I've only heard that on here several times, never reported or even mentioned anywhere else.  Kerin has seen it too.  I never felt the need to address it because it seemed very much like a bunch of BS someone was trying to get started.  It was only the comment tonight about these friends not knowing where she was every night of the vacation when she didn't come back to her room that got me to finally ask where this information is coming from.

I'm sure this is re-hashed news but I can't believe that the father actually told Joran "no body, no case."  :evil: Now it feels like we'll never know what happened because obviously that implies that he helped do-away with a body... since he knows the legal system, obviously he knew what to do so it wouldn't be found.

How agonizing. :?

does fox have the pictures backward?  http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050618.html

You are assuming he lied, then we agree to disagree.....

Not to mention hanging out at the pool/jaccuzi all night.

Mostly a lurker here, but I agree that it is odd that Beth would immediately assume that because Nat did not show up for the trip to the airport, that she had been kidnapped.  Beth even said she immediately called the FBI.  This seems an extreme reaction unless she did receive some sort of call.  I thought it odd that Greta did not ask CC about the call he vaguely referenced, but maybe this is something they do not want disclosed right now?

I think these are all things we have heard.  There have just been some comments made recently about her never being in her room at night and no one knowing where she was on nights of this vacation.

I suppose that's possible.

BTW, I can think of 5 stories that we've heard, although only the first has been completely verified:

1. They dropped off Natalee at the Holiday Inn
2. The Kalpoe's dropped Joran off at home and then were to drop off Natalee
3. The Kalpoe's dropped Joran and Natalee off at the Marriott beach and Deepak picked him up
4. Same as above with Satish picking him up
5. Same as above with Joran walking home

Edited to fix the darn quotes.

EDITED: Keep the quoting to 2 levels, please...RB


Just paying attention to details, and it's been mentioned by myself and maybe others....some of us care about details, whether they are red flags or not, Nancy....read all your stories as a kid;)

We covered all this tonight. Dash said Natalee couldn't get into the room from the beach side. It could be that the door led out to a patio area, but there was a wall blocking access to the beach. Or it could mean that they kept that door locked because all their stuff was in there and they'd already had cameras stolen.

I trust everything Dash said.

i'll do it alot faster and with no extra "tools"

I'm just curious to know what the consensus is with the Monkeys.  What are you surmising happened to Natalee with everything we've heard thus far?

Sometimes it helps to take a deep breath  :wink:

The list of things in this case that do not seem weird to me is so short that if it were a skirt, even Cristina Aguilera would not wear it.

I still think #1 seems strange, but then maybe that cell phone call that keep eluding to has something to do with her first reaction.  I don't know.

#2 The hotels have phones.  My mother would have expected a collect call.  I didn't know the Twitty's were out of town.

One of Natalee's roomates was interviewed on Oreilly I think - or one of the other shows - the McVea girl? - and she mentioned that Natalee did not sleep in her room every night - this was in answer to the question of why they did not think something was wrong when Natalee did not come back to the room that night.

I have a feeling that the MB kids are very concerned to protect Natalee's reputation (and downplay at least a bit of their own behavior while in Aruba since they seem to come from a community that would not like the idea that they were acting wild in aruba) so some of the information they have provided is confusing and may be more "nuanced" to present a Natalee was perfect portrait than to provide accurate information on all details.  Some of these statements lead to other conclusions that may or may not be good ...

for example, we didn't miss Natalee because she didn't always sleep in the room is a good explanation for why they didn't miss her but is not a great statement for the "Natalee would never ..." statements they are also making.

I assume that they are all pretty traumatized - and having watched the kids' reactions in my town when one of the local teens died in a car accident, the reactions and "memories" are very emotional and very exagerated - in the case here, the girl who died was suddenly not just a nice girl but was A SAINT - there's a certain freny that hits with teens in tragedies like this that I think we have to make some allowances for when considering the accounts of Natalee's classmates.

Of course, I also think we need to accord the same allowances for Joran and Deepak and Satish - it would not surprise me at all if when they heard that all these people and the police wanted to speak to them about the girl they were with the night before that they would say "we just left her at the HI" and in fact, that story is one reason I think they may be telling the truth overall since it sounds so like kids who expect everything to turn out OK and who don't want to get themselves or anyone else into trouble. If they knew Natalee had died or was in danger, they would have come up with a better story such as we gave her a ride but then she went off with a guy from a crack house (crack houses seem to be the favorite location mentioned by everyone) or something

Joran is much better at fantasy than you are, Detective..he's up to Version 8.0 right now.

Fine, but it isn't just an unfounded assumption, he lied to police about a missing girl and implicated two innocent men.  I don't see how anyone save his own friends and family could believe what he says now.

deepaks shirt says just do it.

Any chance CC is the DEA guy in Aruba?

I spect tha key factor will become the Voice Analyzer!  The world will know who's lying even as they persist!  

The obviosity of the contrived
audacity makes me abnormally regurgatatable! Sotaspeak!

WW - Satish's attorney stated that Jaron has had eight different stories, with four of them being significantly different.[/quote]

He's Satish's attorney......

Well monkeys it's time to go to bed, this has worn me out.  I'd like everyone, if you can be so swayed, to take a moment this evening and pray for Natalee and her family.  

You might even pray that Joran finds it within himself to come clean with all he knows.  

If this is not your thing that's fine, at least send out some positive energy because there are those out there that can use it more than us right now.

I have nothing but admiration for BHT and sympathy for whatever has happened to NH, I have tried to keep an open mind and think outside the box as to all the possible scenarios.  But the video clip of JVDS tonight gave me a chill down my spine.  Since I Tvo'd it, I have watched it several times and once in slow motion.  He looks different than when he was first arrested.  Not like it has been difficult for him or anything.  He seems....indifferent.  Almost comfortable with himself....smug sort of.  Maybe I am reading to much into this short clip, but he just gave off a whole different vibe than I would expect from kid that age under the circumstances.

Hey, cute avatar - is that new?  Any resemblance?

 :wink:

What he said!  PAss it on!  :D

Mmmm, no..I don't think so.

I would be interested in knowing how many people here screaming innocent until proven guilty are climbing over the fence towards joran is guilty land?

Just curious as if any new information has caused people to change their tune somewhat.

it would have floated in about three days.  how would joran push a dead body that would not float 300 feet into the sea and be so sure it would never be found.  if he did dispose of the body, he is very sure it will not be located.  what could he have done with it to be so sure?

In regards to question 2: I can attest that rates from Aruba to US from Hotels is very expensive, had a 2 min call that cost $61.00, needless to say I told my husband unless it was life and death...don't call, use e-mail which was a flat day rate from the hotel he stayed

I thought we agreed to disagree?

What station was this on?  I want to see it.

Sorry if this is old news, but Charles Croes is a DEA agent.

Seems they is some new names for the mix! IMHO!

Fox I believe.

 i am still clinging with my fingernails to the fence leaning on the guilty side but not ready to let go.  this gets weirder and weirder and as greta says, we know nothing.

Aruba girl,

Are you familiar with guido wiersma on aruba a child psycologist ?

No! But it adds to the color of the preconfaburation!  Now don't it?

I thought we agreed to disagree?

I saw that.  I also thought I saw a post after that, but it could be the quotes are starting to blur in my mind....

That is an interesting comment.  Almost sounds like there may be some mother daughter or family issues there (just speculating)

emtkkd


Holy smoly $61.00!! :shock:  :shock:

HUH?????? :shock:

FOX. I forget which show. I've been watching them all.  It's the short clip of him being put into the police car, he has on a white button down shirt. One of the brothers is in the back seat.

He is?

The e-mail, I am sure it will come out one of these days....

everyone is so stuck on "GUILTY" and the ONE lie(understandable, DT) that you all cloud your vision of other things stated in it.

Dude, these kids weren't sitting up all night discussing Balzac or the best brand of toenail polish.

I still can't make up my mind.  I've gone back and forth so many times.  I'm just not ready to say either way how I feel because I honestly don't think I have enough evidence yet.  The LE has been hiding so much from the public and the media and the people they interview have been wrong so many times that I don't trust anything I hear from them.

In the original post on tripadvisor regarding NH, the poster named "Ashley something" said  a girl had been kidnapped and the DEA was involved.  Again, not missing  but kidnapped was used.

Are you sure?

Well for deepak and satish it is just one lie, to my knowledge.  But with Joran it is pretty well confirmed that he has lied a lot.

The obviosity of the contrived audacity makes me abnormally regurgatatable!



It's just scurvy that makes him talk that way...he'll be fine after some vitamin C.... :)

Really? Are you sure?

He seemed far more like a cop to me. BUT, didn't people report Greta said he was a cell phone co. owner?

A creepy thought has been running through my mind the past few days: suppose Joran and the brothers are actually in protective custody rather than detention for suspicion of a crime? The authorities could have taken them in to give the appearance of pursuing an investigation,and are waiting (hoping) that the press will lose interest and go home if there's no solution to the case. And that the Holloway/Twittys will just give up ultimately when no answers are forthcoming.
   I've mentioned this before, but I bring it up again because so many people on this board have commented on the fact that Joran looked so cocky and self-aasured in his most recent appearance. Maybe he has a reason to look happy.

I saw that, but wasn't quite sure if that was recent footage or old footage.  Why would they have them both out of the prison and be moving them anywhere for them both to be in that car together tonight?  Just wondering.  That's what made me believe it was old, maybe from when they were arrested or something like that.

Nope...I don't think so.  Maybe JVDS just had gas :lol:

The e-mail, I am sure it will come out one of these days....

everyone is so stuck on "GUILTY" and the ONE lie(understandable, DT) that you all cloud your vision of other things stated in

I'm not stuck on guilty, however if the "proof" is just the email, I'd like further confirmation before I make up my mind.

And DT agreed to disagree, and therefore, this conversation should (and will) be over.

Well, la de da...you're here!  I thought you'd taken off with Gushing Geraldo!!!

<<

Their last name is Twitty.  Why are they always referred to as the Bama "gang" or "posse" by some posting about them?  I find this a very odd way to describe distraught parents, maybe receiving the worst news parents can.  There were a couple of other parents there as well and the Croes man is not from Alabama but is local, isn't he?  So why are the people from Alabama described in this manner?  And remember they are the offended party in this, the one with the missing child and were in the company of the local police.  Had they been as lawless as you seem to want to imply, why would they have brought the cops?  Last ones I would have wanted along, believe me!

Um, Frank?

Source?

LOL!  Yes, I know, but these are the only 5 that I've heard.  Any thoughts on what the others may have been??  A UFO landed, aliens abducted her, Joran tried to fight them off, but he was no match for their seven arms??

I've heard bunches of others tell how NAt was that night!  Of the many who saw her, only one saw what the confirmed liar says he saw!  KnowwhutImean?

With cellphone Charlie, I'm going with:
kidnapped
still alive
on the island

But Joran wasn't counting on the "mark" (ie Natalee's parents) coming right to his door before they could all complete the ransom transaction. He had to go to plan B. What's he going to say, "Oh, you got me. I'm the one who kidnapped your daughter and a bunch of us are trying to get lots of money from you."

He's a gambler. He liked to take chances. What's the biggest chance of all but kidnapping a girl and demanding a big cash prize?

I like this scenario because it means she's alive.

Since the new information is just as scattered, wacky, and contradictory as the old information, it has not even caused me to discontinue considering all possibilities (with the exception of the Ethiopian tribesmen) in this case, much less affected my support for the principle of the presumption of innocence.

Funny thing is, when I am drinking his babble seems logical.  :lol:

::::going back to the martinis:::

These people get it. Lie to cover for having sex not a  viable reason as J was not shy about sharing that w/ the cell phone guy.

I already did RB, you must've missed it....not worth my time!

Hotel calls from Aruba would be very pricey but ...

the chaperones used Natalee's cell phone to call BTH et al in Alabama which we know because the family mistakenly thought that Natalee had turned up ok when they got a call from her cell phone (before they left for Aruba) - I find the idea that she did not call home interesting - when my daughter who is 19 or I travel, we always touch base once a day and it seem odd to me that Natalee did not speak to Beth even once during the whole trip

btw, was Jug with Beth in Arkansas or was he at home? just curious

and Greta said Charles Croes ran a cell phone company - doesn't mean he's not DEA but I thought Arubagirl said that her mother knew who he was and that he's had a series of businesses on the island so I thought he was local

Believe me that is not an exaggeration!!!!!! And believe me he has never made a call from the hotel after I got that bill, I think he was in shock also. He waits til he gets to refinery where they have 800 number!

LOL!  :D

Gittum Taz!

 :wink:

DEA agents are cops. Undercover cops. They have cover stories. Croes is in fact with Digicel, the largest cell phone company in Aruba. Can you think of a better situation for a DEA agent?

LOL.  No, that will be next when they have evidence to contradict current story.   :lol:  :lol:

aruba girl said they guy croes (charles) is a businessman who changes businesses much more often than joran changes shirts.  where did we get dea?

WW, exactly when did you get this here EEEEEEEEE-mail?

See this is how rumors get started, some guy heard thought he heard dea and posted it here in a hurry.  Now it has probably already spread to other boards and we will be hearing about it for weeks to come.

DEA agents are cops. Undercover cops. They have cover stories. Croes is in fact with Digicel, the largest cell phone company in Aruba. Can you think of a better situation for a DEA agent

So Frank, I can buy that.  What I'm having difficulty understanding is how you know this to be, and I'm supposing, true? :)

dea agents overseas do not normally work under cover  (been there, done that).  their informants do.  but i would not want to go on tv in a place like aruba if i was either a dea agent or informant.  where do we get dea?   i highly doubt it.

That Joran footage was dated 6/29.  He was on his way back to KIA after being interrogated.

Okay, I have an early morning so I have to be off to bed.  Kerin, can you follow this whole DEA thing and let me know how it pans out tomorrow?   :shock:

He seemed far too sharp and mysterious to be just a cell guy...BUT, I can't say there's enough proof to suggest otherwise.

*ding, ding, ding*

and you know what they were doing and talking about how? Are you projecting on them what you would have done at the age or were you actually there and know for a fact what was going on in each of the rooms of 140 kids?

Anyone remeber, I believe on Dan's site, that the DEA there was able to get Natalie's phone to work on the island, and many of her friends thought it was her calling them. It does make sense that CC is a DEA agent, it does sorta seem to fit together.

TTownMike and I will be selling our 3:00pm Monday pool meeting theory to other boards. We will just hold an auction on ebay. We will give details, names and times.

But I thought they said that it was one of the advantages of KIA that they have better interrogation facilities that they don't have at the jail and police station where they used to be?

<<

Juries are often instructed that if a witness is caught in one lie, they may disregard the entire testimony.  I don't think liars ever tell just one.

Frank is blowing smoke you guys and laughing as you run to timbuktoo and back trying to figure it out.

See watch I can do it too

Charles Croes was a ex drug lord in columbia now working as a narc.  Not true but you get it.

Maybe he changed businesses again between arubagirl and Frank's posts?

If I remember correctly, LE are not allowed to interrogate at KIA, only at the police station.

I thought the phone worked to call the US but not on the island?  I've never heard the DEA guy helped get the phone to work.  They might be good, but putting up instant cell towers I doubt is in their bag of tricks.

I don't know why they would need a better place for interrogation - "Joran is not being interrogated on a daily basis.  He is being interrogated, yes, but not daily."  M. Croes.

They have better rooms for lawyer/client meetings and I assume family meetings..but, ALL interrogations are still done at the police stations.  So, inmates are transported for those events.

Ding Ding why are they in protective custody?  If you have any ideas we'd love to hear them!

 

my daughter is in a very remote and unconnected part of africa now and manages to call and email despite a busy work schedule.  natalee had a cellphone.  why did she not use it if it wokrd to call the states?

I know that my phone did not work there to the us, I had to rent one.

GOT IT....LOL

I thought MC said in one of her interviews about moving them to KIA that it was a much better facility with better interrogation rooms.  Maybe I hallucinated that.

But FBI has been watching the interrogations. I don't know that they'd sit quietly by while these guys weren't being interrogated.

so .. another day with tons more hearsay and very little fact ...
everyone involved has an agenda and we pick the agendas which fit out perspectives

I sure hope someday we know what really happened ... I'm leaning towards innocent still and think there's more here than meets the eye like the immediate assumption of kidnapping, etc but it's really hard to make assumptions about a whole bunch of folks dealing with highly emotional experiences

that said, it's time for sleep here ...

nite all!

WW, It's pretty bad when the mod has to mod herself...see below ;)



RB, I was responding to you, not DT?   :?

EDITED: RB, IF YOU CAN'T FOLLOW THE THREAD DON'T HIT SUBMIT, YOU DUMMY!  WITH LOVE, RB.

Based on the missing profile the Twitty's posted, she is 5'5" and 115 pounds.  So she's not that "tiny" in terms of height anyway....

And another point....everybody conveniently forgets that her roommates stated that Joran was quiet and kept to himself at the blackjack table....  I can't remember if the said she introduced herself or not....I kind of think they did.

Will have to go back and listen to the clip..

How do we know she didn't?

I don't know, but that's what they said when I saw it on either CNN, CNNH, MSNBC, or FOX.  :D  Sorry, I can't remember which.  I did see it on two different networks within half an hour, and only one of them gave the date and details.

i think you are confusing chaperone and dea.  beleive me, i know dea and those chaperones were no dea.

    Oh, I think they do know something, and Ms. Twitty is quite well aware of that. (Imagine her level of frustration.) But I don't think that has anything to do with the "fix being in," as so many people have suggested: that nothing bad is going to happen to Joran because the crime's been thoroughly covered up.
   My point was that he and the brothers may be in jail (temporarily) to placate the Holloway/Twittys and the press and lull them into believing something is being done.
    This is just a thought, and it may well be off-base. But..such things have happened.

The 'mysterious phone call' could not have come from Joran or his buddies! If it had, they would have figured out their identities from their ownership record. But as has been reported many times- Beth figured out Joran's identity by checking the signatures of the people who had been playing in the casino's Texas Hold 'Em poker tournament. Please feel free to shoot holes thru my theory!

fbi was only allowed to observe they were not allowed to conduct.

it's all a show.....she will tell media if they do not make more arrests? correct?

Kidnapping. They don't know where she's being held and he won't give up the information.

 because beth said so per a previous poster of very high credibility.

Really??  Cool!!  Greta is really a CIA operative working for FOX to investigate Bill O'Reilly's phone calling habits.

For all we know they are in protective custody due to the presence on the island of US nationals who might do them harm.

<<

I thought Joren always wore the blue plaid one.  He very seldom changes shirts, oddly so.

Or he doesn't know and he's stalling, perhaps?

Beth on the radio today. Said she never talk to Nat, yet I know that conflicts with some other interviews she has done.

I could be mistaken (it did happen once!), but I believe Dash thought Natalee's uncle re-programmed the phone to allow it to call the US.  Edited Sarcasm-Absolut

I am totally confused now!! On top of that, I'm tired.  I hope that somewhere amidst all of this intrique is a live Natalee.  Goodnight Monkeys.

Or wuz it whut Sonny Boy told Deeeeepak as soon as he could after doing what he did to her?  I f guilty, ya start buildin your story from the git go!

   Excellent point. As I said, it was just a thought. This case is so bizarre that one finds oneself searching for an explanation that might make it comprehensible.
   I do recall one of the FBI guys saying they were a little hamstrung by the fact that they weren't allowed to do anything but observe. They may have seen things they can't comment on that could well have hopelessly buggered up the case.

Nite Golden

Anna said :  Juries are often instructed that if a witness is caught in one lie, they may disregard the entire testimony. I don't think liars ever tell just one..........                                                                                                 [/i]  I totally agree with that statement.! And the three being held have all lied. What diff. does it make if it was one lie or ten.....A LIE IS A LIE...where I come from !

quote]

How do we know she didn't?[/quote]
Beth (herself)said in the radio interview that Natalee never called home while in Aruba

 :P

Maybe hes a NOG, most undercover agencies front up with some legit business...:) there is always an answer..

You can be sure that the rumour that Charles Croes is DEA will be repeated on 4 websites tomorrow and by Saturday will be quoted as fact.

o

  That may well be another possibility worth considering.

Ok going with the kidnapping phone call.

This may just be common sense but how would joran, PVDS or any one currently a suspect get a number to call. Nats cell phone was with all of her stuff.

 

but we have new footage of joran from whoknowswhere wearing a white shirt.  is it a sign?  i think it is new footage, shot at night.  he looks thinner and he stared straight at the camera.

Yes but her friends who I have heard saw how she looked and acted as they walked out of CnC's and that weren't sloshed!  Sotaspeak!

And they deserve full credit for such a diplomatic statement.

Well, if they really kidnapped Natalee, wouldn't she tell them the phone number??

I know gun to her head give me a number to call would work too. It just doesn't fit.

I thought BHT was really emphasizing KIDNAP tonight.  Anyone?

I'm with DF & K on that one!

Maybe she gave Joran her e-mail address AND phone number since he was going to be coming to the US soon.

How do we know she didn't?[/quote]

"According to the interview with her mom on the SM home page, it states that "Natalee did not have contact with Beth during her trip"

So maybe she talked to Jug.  I don't know it just seems weird not to talk to your mom.

What are the odds that an infinite amount of monkeys, locked in this website cage, typing furiously on their keyboards, to randomly solve this Aruban Mystery?

they asked her?

   Well, I was paraphrasing, but you're correct: the speaker was diplomatic.

 

did you mean noc?  you are thinking of another agency.  in any case going on tv is not good for cover.  this would not good for the case either and i doubt greta would have run him anyway.  how did she introduce him?

WonderWoman,

Just looked at your post over on the timeline thread and I'll make the change. I must have read it too quickly. Deepak wasn't working in the MORNING, not that he wasn't working that day at all.

Got it. Thanks!

chances are we have. If you throw enough monkey poop against the wall it will turn brown.

"may the force be with you", NATALEE   :D

On a related subject, does anyone know if you can get/use c phones such as TRACPHONES on the island?

Where you been Ella's Mom? Is the air a little thin up there?

The not calling home does not bother me.  I  spent 16 days in Europe and did not call home a single time.  Most people on the tour did not either.  It is expensive and we were busy doing things most of the time.

Even now I almost never call my kids and I love them dearly.  If something is wrong they clal me.  Likewise for me calling them, but we are just not talk on the phne with family people.

They will call friends many times before they would call me.

E-mail is our prefered method of communication.

Heh  :D

Have you ever considered that the local mafia in aruba is not amused at all with all the attention in Aruba , with all the searches going on .The police is going to stumble on other suspicous things aswell. The natalee case gives a sort of carte blanche for the police to search many places. So supposedly if another party is involved in the natalee dissapearance I can imagine they would pressure him/her really hard to come up with information.

Because Beth knows that JVS/PVS KNOW who took her next?  (I'm still stuck on you know who (LVJorG).

Another piece of the kidnap phonecall thing, if it is a cover too she would have already been dead. I don't think that they would have thought to get the number before she died/ or was killed.

:?: Does anyone have any thoughts or insight about this...
I referred to this posting from the home page here on Scared Monkeys below earlier this evening and found the  references to VWs on the Psychic prediciton forum here:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=65&sid=d9e7961d285da312dd181f7742c1379f
:?:

1. we don't know how many people are in on it. Employees of the hotel or casino? Access to names, addresses & phone numbers?
2. We don't know what Natalee & Joran talked about at the casino. We don't know how nosey he was getting.
3. We also don't know how many days he and his partners in crime may have actually watched her.
4. Don't assume Joran is the "brains" of the operation. he may just have been the one to zoom in for the prey.

Inquitos-

What is NOC?

Where you gittin all that, coco?

TY  :lol:

non official cover.  you work out of a front business rather than out of say, an embassy.

yep you would think they would have fixed the end of this case by now.

Excuse me for interferring, but you know its NOT that difficult to get numbers and addresses from the internet.......?????

deepthroat2....(back a few pages)....this may actually "hold water"....if ya know what I mean!

Except that someone said that if anyone put a "toe" in the water, a new island radar system would reveal it.  But my question about that is, what about swimmers?  surely tourists and maybe some locals take midnight swims?  And what about jetskis, or other water craft....seems like the radar would be set up for larger boats....so maybe someone could carry a body out 300 yards in the shallow water and put it in the ocean.

I remember someone posting that he had lots of experience with underwater in Aruba....and that the water was shallow near the island, but dropped of precipitously not too far out....and those currents take a body to Panama...not back to shore.

This jibes with my first thought about the missing report....thinking her body, if she had been killed, was probably disposed at sea...duh!  But I couldn't figure out how it wouldn't be washed back to shore.  But I guess Aruba has some precedents of a young boy falling off a jetski and never being found again.....

The bartender who knoew of "Joran V." told them to check a certain cabi!  He knew where to send them!(or show them?)

Yes. So those Dons need to lean on some people and make them give back Natalee. Then everyone will go home.

Because the longer the press is there, the more they're going to start digging up dirt on Aruba.

 she got all that off the greta interview with mr. croes.

The number they would have called would not have been on the internet. It would have been to a phone in a purse in a car travelling back from Arkansas.

   Well, obviously, they should make Joran an offer he can't refuse.

If that's the case, they may as well skip the indictments, convictions and just sentence them each to 20 years at KIA.

For their own self-preservation, coming clean at this point is their best bet.

Just remember....Vengeance is a dish best served cold.

Sorry, RB...but with current conversation, I think it's a good idea to repost

FROM SCARED MONKEYS....




Posters Name:
NOC

Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:11 am Post subject: WARNING...HITMEN AWAIT RELEASE OF SUSPECTS TO ACT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arrived as press.

Awaiting for 'new' appointed judge's decision to release men on this friday.

I am here trying to keep up.  I am not sure I understand your comment

Actually...the story was that they got the description from MB kids, looked on video tape, got the name Joran V. for the sheets, AND THEN A TAXI DRIVER TOLD THEM JORAN'S FULL NAME!   So CC must have been the taxi driver who gave them his name!!

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:14 pm    Post subject:   
He has a 1001 and one jobs, according to my mom. Several businesses one after the other.

Does anyone know who the other two Arubans are?
_________________

above is what aruba girl said about charles, i believe.

Actually I think it said Jug talked to his nephews and got the description.

I've been thinkin all along that a call was made to the home......but you, if it was moms cell that received the call, she could have had all calls from home forwarded to her cell........just thinkin maybe?

And there was a scuffle between Joran and Natalee's step-cousin, which if I am not mistaken, People magazine indicates that the family was aware of before Natalee's disappearance.

We do not however, know what the scuffle was about, or whether it involved raised voices, physical violence, name-calling or what.

Natalee is reported to have been seen dancing with Joran subsequent to the scuffle. We do not know if she knew about the scuffle.

What are the odds that an infinite amount of monkeys, locked in this website cage, typing furiously on their keyboards, to randomly solve this Aruban Mystery?[/quote]

beats me ...I am still looking for my bananna,,,,hey all! :wink:

 now we have yet another version.  remember the first on e came from dan reihl.  here is what the press said:  http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050618.html

Are you all still going to be here when this case is over?

Ever since the Natalee case broke I ve been keeping an eye on the drug scenes on Aruba.  Well as far as I can remember, ever so often a drop is made, we are talking Cocaine...Bags full of it, sometimes multiple bags.  That floats and get beached...Its been going like this for decades...and arecent as 2 weeks ago it happened again

This past weekend 1800 kilos of  cocaine was seized by a Royal dutch Frigate with coorperation of DEA, US.  I hope that Nat did not get involved in drugs and gangsta.

Mafia or whatever...a rose by any name...can't imagine they like the media scrutiny...but they know they are safe...unless the whole top blows...

Always remember they brought down Al Capone not by convicting him of his many heinous deeds, but because of Income Tax.

I keep thinking of Wizard (are you there?) saying "Follow the money".  Then last night when I mentioned it, he replied "Folllow the Monet."

That may have been George Dickel talking and just a typo, but I wonder.  I typed back "Follow the Rembrandt" (as in Van Rijn), but if I was so far behind, I think he'd gone to bed last night.

   It depends. Will you still love me tomorrow?

I will find other reasons to dispute about with my newly won amercian friends   :wink:

And blaring Christina Aguillero!  Sotaspeak!

LIGHTBULB MOMENT:

The business Charles Croes owns RENTS mobile phones to vacationers (I guess since all cell phones don't work down there).  Could Croes have been contacted by that "mutual friend" (i.e. Rep Spencer Bachus) of his and the Twittys not as someone who can track cell phone calls (i.e. the kidnap call) but as someone whose client may be of particular interest???

No, I don't have the source, but it's the site posted at the end of the last thread -  just prior to my post asking if Mariaine C. was his daughter.



PS - I think Joran would rather be in jail than sing and get killed.

At the rate things are going, that will depend on the internet access available in our respective Senior Care facilities.

Both of these may be true.

I'll be back next summer for sure.  I'm a teacher who had foot surgery this summer so this is exceptional for me to stay on a board this long.  However, anytime there's an "event"...I'll tune in.  Just wish I could keep up reading as fast as the info goes in!

Ok so here is my new thought on the cell phone call.  

Do you think Natalee could have somehow got someone's cell phone or used a phone (possibly secretly) the night (or next day)she went missing, maybe if she felt she was in trouble she tried to call home or someone else on the trip.  She could have left a message, been cut off, or couldn't say much - then Mom gets a call from chaperone and knows its a kidnapping based on the "cell phone call"

Whay do you guys think?  Possible?

Maybe we could rehash Chandra Levy or JonBenet? :roll:

"According to the interview with her mom on the SM home page, it states that "Natalee did not have contact with Beth during her trip"

So maybe she talked to Jug.  I don't know it just seems weird not to talk to your mom.[/quote]

Beth, herself, was away from home at the time, in Arkansas, and the trip to Aruba, I believe, was only 4-5 days anyway.  Then, factor in that there was a group of adults accompanying Natalee and 130+ classmates.  

Hardly weird, all things considered.

 ww:  sweeet!  your attention to detail is phenomenal.

Yeah, and I'll be busy driving around in my flying car.

Well, I now have a theory that is a little too scary to post.  Do I send it to someone, or let the police come upon this?

Need a little advice.

arubagirl, please excuse me, i've never posted before although i've been hear for weeks now. and i'm still on page 32 of the last thread :shock: but why does it matter that the security guard wasn't a "local"? that makes it okay for the police to bust dowwn his door and arrest him in his underwear using 10 or so cops in the middle of the night? respectfully asking but have to admit i was alittle upset by your post.

Excellent point there!

I wont but youll probably be thankful for that.

Verrrryyy interesting!!  I'd say that's a possibility.

iquitos...that is the same report I saw earlier, but it appears BHT just shortened the final connections.  I distinctly remember it was said that after they got Joran V., a taxi driver told them his full name.

That would also explain why he ended up driving the HTs around.

I am.  Will it continue to discuss crimes/mysteries?  I have been a crime news junkie forever.  Before I always followed Crime News 2000 and Websleuths because I didn't know Scared Monkeys existed.  Now I am hooked here.

This is from our own little Dash (sniff!).
regarding whether Joran took Natalee to the beach at the Marriott that night:

Dash:
thats very unlikely.... we were all outside, a lot of us on the beach until VERY late... we would have seen her

absolut wrote:
So you could see Marriott beach from where you were?

Dash:
yeah, you can walk to it in just a couple minutes... it's really close by.

You do know that most of the casinos and hotels are owned by Americans?

On the rented cell phone call ... maybe Natalee called home/her mom's cell the night she went missing and left a message that led to concern?  Or maybe there was a call from a rented cell phone from Aruba with no message, i.e. Natalee dialed the number but was not in a situation where she could speak?

Another possibility ... maybe Natalee had already exchanged addresses/phone numbers before they left Carlos n' Charlies, then Joran called with a ransom message as cover?

The whole exchange with CC about the call just seemed so odd to me, and in combination with Beth's immediate reaction of assuming kidnapping/calling the FBI - it just suggests that something else must have seemed suspicious to her when the chaperone called to say Natalee did not show for the flight home.

Arubagirl went to bed

Post it, it will get to the proper authorities if necessary, and deleted if necessary!!

You post it. If it is really really scary, post it in big red letters.

Or you PM it to someone and let them post it. If you PM it to me, I will even try to make it sound less scary, if that would help.

I'm not here now...

Oops!  Looks like you beat me to this theory.  It makes sense though.

Whutchutawkinbout, writenow?  Helloo?  The fact is she was not missed perhaps for that reason.  But its a cinch she actually did not stay there!  Sotaspeak!

Any keyword teasers? :)

Again, ROFL!!!  Sad, too true.

Charles Croes was contacted by the FBI.

thanks
so much for trying to keep up :lol:

send it to absolut.

no post it, lol...I want to see it too!

Same owners as las vegas ? I was reffering to the big drugslords aswell.

i have been lost in trees for days gangsta :oops:

put 3 keywords out there and I can prlly tell you what to do with it. Not being arrogant, you haven't seen my PM box.

Luna, suspect you are remembering the dan reihl account.  see it on riehlworldview.  that is the only one we have with all the pieces in one place.  it is probably not all factual but like the deepak email it is a snapshot that may contain clues.  btw the 2 girls who were on tv together and are close firends of natalees and her roomies did say they were concerned when they woke up and natalee was not there and told the chaperones as much very early.

CNN's Larry King's segment  tonight was entitled: Natalee Holloway Family threatens to go to media if arrests are not made.

How bout because when the chaperone called her she said "we cant find Natalee!  We've check the hospital and the police and all over the hotel and the beach and everywhere we can think to look and we can't find a sighn of her!"  Now tha might jus make ya thank about kiddnapping, if ya ask me!

Sounds like a kidnapping case to me, hold each person in the chain til you get to the end.

FOM!!! A face I love to see!  :D

Please don't take this as any type of put-down on Alabama boys, especially these because they may have had valid reason for scuffling.  
But, in my long experience, both first-hand and second-hand, it's not that hard to get certain Alabama fellows scuffling...specially after drinking, especially with someone they think is moving in on their territory.  Now these same boys grow up to be respectible grown ups, but scuffles start easy.  Very proud, these types I'm thinking of.

This is a tragedy of Greek proportion.
The perfect storm hit Aruba this summer.
Paulus' situation at the point of realization a critical moment for generations of Van Der Sloots yet unborn.
Joran at the threshhold ofa promising life with all the gifts providence could bestow. That life that nurtured him shaped a psyche that would not be denied what he thought he would get easily, a sense of entitlement? An emotional peak at a transition in life, all those accomplishments and that physicality. All would be lost, at least Paulus would see it that way, Joran's future and Paulus' present crashing in flames...no, sinking in silence beneath the surface of the mother of all mystery. How deep these passions? How deep the oceans.

good point mike

KerinTx,

I am almost on the edge of bailing on the simple theory being in my portfolio.

There are too many lies for a boy meets girl story, this rings more of a shakespere type of tragidy. Not completly sold out yet but close.

Only if I decide that I want my husband to leave me.  I haven't showered in days.  I don't watch tv.  Kids, however, have had their brain turned to mush since I force them to watch it all day.  I bribe them to leave me alone, and we can't stay at the pool for more than 2 hours so I won't miss anything here.  Clothes haven't been washed, plants haven't been watered and house cleaning - what's that?  I've given up Solitaire on the computer, girls nights out, Supper Club and exercise.  So, if I know what's good for me, I will quit cold turkey (or maybe sneak in after everyone's gone to bed). :?

Wonderful post.

I noticed that...starting to get scary if we all think alike.

Except for TTown who thinks my "air up here is thin"

Absolut....say it isn't so!!!! <sigh>

 i would not be so sure i know who owns either the hotels or the casinos.  one thing is who operates them who owns them quite another.

Has anyone quoted yet that PvdS also forwarded "statements made by friends of joran to the police " to Joran or that is old news .


Source www.telegraaf.nl

I still have no figured out how to get a face sill!
like klaassends new monkey mug tho...

You better tell Dee Fine that. :)

Beth and Jug were on Larry King,,,Nancy Grace was in for Larry,,,
Beth looks worse that yesterday.  Same old questions about staying in her room,,etc...but Nancy asked about them staying in Natalee's room,,and then asked Jug about going home,  He said that he wanted to take Natalee home and if she was not alive, they wanted to find her,,,Beth just took a deep breath,,broke my heart...

He also answered a question regarding help from the authorities..."At first there were some that were really helpful,, no they act like they just want us to go home"    

Tim,,,ESearch,,said that he feels really good about tomorrow...they are making big plans tonight,,,,I think tomorrow might be the day....

SAY A PRAYER FOR NAT AND HER FAMILY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

what kind of avatar do you want? I can get you a monkey or something...

I've been going through Dash's postings.
Here:

No, we just thought she might have overslept... We didn't think she was that little punk at all! She's not usually late, but we thought she must have just crashed somewhere, if not in her room, then in one of her other friend's rooms.

Hat,

We must have had a kindred moment.

Thinking/typing shakespere and greek at about the same moment.

Dallas Also wrote:
Well, I now have a theory that is a little too scary to post. Do I send it to someone, or let the police come upon this?

Need a little advice
Please......don't make me stay up all night....POST IT !!  :roll:

 bendex, it is old news, the prosecutrix janssen went on nova tonight to reply to Paulus.  Most here have thought the friend could be lorenzo.  I think we do not know most of the people the police questioned.  mariane once told us that "we are constantly questioning people about this case".

bad monkey no bananna please ????[/b]

Hey and Absolut...don't forget about all the new posters I am bringing in once school starts back up.  8)

Didn't you see the demo of the Voice Analyzer they showed on FOX.  I think it was with Greta.  From one short tape of papa in interview, it showed dramatically that he seemed to be agonizing, and lying!  Sotaspeak!
We'll be hearing much more about the VOICE ANALYZER!  Watch and see!