Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Anything new this morning.

I remember the Levy case, that was intense.  I still think Condit had it done.  I hope they find her body soon.  I am just beginning to wonder about the 3 in jail.  The more time passes and there not cracking the more likely they will get off.  Or be innocent.  I just dont know anymore.

I do feel the same way even though it doesnt seem to fit the popular theory sometimes. If they did it, and they dont speak, I think they will have no choice but to release them. At the same time it makes me wonder. I have teenagers and when they do something wrong, I can usually get them to crack by making their life uncomfortable. I know they havent done anything as serious as this, or accused of it. Still though.

As for the legal advice they were given I have two ways of seeing it. The first one is that PVDS is involved and told them no body no case. The second would be with the boys asking something like "And what if she never shows up will we get arrested?" and him saying dont worry no body no case. I have a mom whose a paralegal, and my cousin is chief of police in my hometown. I know sometimes they automatically kick into legal gear...so its hard to tell without listening to the full report. One thing that bothered me was him questioning his sons friend and then giving the ingo to Joran. That is odd and questionable.

Shell,
My husband is starting to ger bored with the coverage. I hope his feeling isnt like alot of other people. He is reminded of the Chandra Levy case himself. I really hope they can come up with a resolution soon to this and she isnt missing too much longer. Its been more then a month now, and it doesnt seem any closer to being solved.

My grandfather was a federal circuit judge.  I think the words "no body" are getting taken out of context and blown out of proportion.  From the moment that the group of people appeared on the doorstep of Paulus Van Der Sloot, the 3 boys and the Van Der Sloot were the accused.  The last person to see a "supposed victim" is the likely suspect.  That's just a fact that everybody legal knows.  If the 3 scared boys said to Paulus, do you think they can arrest us for something we didn't do?  He may have said "well, I don't see how.  If there is no dead person and no evidence, how could they do that.  So boys just calm down and tell what you know."  

I also want to say something else here and I hope that people will pay attention.  Whether you are under the Dutch or the American legal system, citizens have rights.  I am totally flabberghasted that the American press replayed words spoken by Paulus Van Der Sloot on the television and then used an voice analyzer to given opinions as to "stressed" "truth" "evasion" etc. etc.  That machine has not been universally tested on hundreds of thousands of people and recognized all over the world as completely accurate.  What on earth are they thinking?  To put that on television is outrageous.  The people of Aruba are going to need a new chapter of the ACLU called the Aruba Civil Libertities.

what ws that little blurb that i caught on the news all about? it said the holloways will go to the media soon if nothing is done or no progress is made?????


i 100% know i heard it, but i never heard it explained. i figured they would tell all they have been told and what they have seen which could embarass a lot of people. :?

I just woke up and turned on Fox....Mark Furhman is on first thing this morning...Uggggghhhhhhhh.

Well their tourism and economy is down right now, and if she leaks all she knows the economy could landfall.  They know a lot more than we think.

what ws that little blurb that i caught on the news all about? it said the holloways will go to the media soon if nothing is done or no progress is made?????


i 100% know i heard it, but i never heard it explained. i figured they would tell all they have been told and what they have seen which could embarass a lot of people. :?

Well their tourism and economy is down right now, and if she leaks all she knows the economy could landfall.  They know a lot more than we think.

I remember the Levy case, that was intense.  I still think Condit had it done.  I hope they find her body soon.  .

The skeletal remains of missing former Washington intern Chandra Levy were found in a park in northwest Washington on Wednesday, almost 13 months after she vanished without a trace.

Police Chief Charles Ramsey made the grim announcement about 6 p.m., after the remains found Wednesday morning in Washington's Rock Creek Park were identified through dental records.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/22/levy.body/

Good Morning  :D

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The skeletal remains of missing former Washington intern Chandra Levy were found in a park in northwest Washington on Wednesday, almost 13 months after she vanished without a trace.
Aruba is App. same size as DC...

They did. In May of 2002.

Are the Holloways being involuntarily "forced" not to talk, b/c they don't want to burn any bridges with regard to finding Natalee?

Come on folks? Sounds like some are losing interest in finding Natalee-  that's exactly what the perpetrators hope for.  Just because this is not covering the front page does not take away from its importance.  A person needs help.  Please take a deep breath and let's get our second wind!!!  Never give up.  Pray.  God is a God of hope- "do not be discouraged."

They also made it clear a couple nights ago at this point they just want their daughter, and dont care as much anymore about the investigation. If they know more, and think telling the media would help, then I am sure they will do it. I can understand how the feel. When my son was missing I didnt care about the legal issues. After I got him back though I wanted justice and basically had screwed that up. No one was ever arrested for taking my son, or helping hide him. Honestly though I was just pissed off and wanted them taken in, now I am just glad I got him back.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The skeletal remains of missing former Washington intern Chandra Levy were found in a park in northwest Washington on Wednesday, almost 13 months after she vanished without a trace.
Aruba is App. same size as DC...

crematorium -

could not that oil refinery (near Joran's school) be used as one....it does have a incinerator as part of the plant???

anyone from the oil industry here have any knowledge of how the incinerator works overall?

I figure the body was disposed of the night that Beth and Alabama group arrived, and possibly during the time of...

It also would explain the sudden appearance of Deepak and Joran - leaning against the car....and their sudden smart a** attitude.  They had just finished getting rid of the body PERMANENTLY.....

Are the Holloways being involuntarily "forced" not to talk, b/c they don't want to burn any bridges with regard to finding Natalee?

Come on folks? Sounds like some are losing interest in finding Natalee-  that's exactly what the perpetrators hope for.  Just because this is not covering the front page does not take away from its importance.  A person needs help.  Please take a deep breath and let's get our second wind!!!  Never give up.  Pray.  God is a God of hope- "do not be discouraged."

I have a few questions.. The time line (under "concise timeline bt WN" at ScaredMonk. It has a sticky, and Is in the Discussion Forum

QUESTION ONE:
Why were the Kalpoe Brothers washing their car, as seen by their neighbors, at 2 AM the night Natalee disappeared?

QUESTION TWO:
Why were two withdrawals made from "someone" at PaulVDS's Aruba ATM... around 3AM, and later at 3.45
AM, in the wee hours after N's disappearance?

QUESTION THREE:
It is common to read that Joran bragged about sex w/ N. at his school the next AM. Is it true he told quite a few people that she drowned too?

Thx for any responses,
SL

My mom said she would do the same thing.  Although I am 26 she said there is no possible way she would leave an island without me or my body.

dragonfly,
yes chandra was found in an area that had already been searched.

I'm glkad u got him back.
the NH family has bit their tongue imo and tried to work with polis to get Natalee...in light of this new truth/lie I agree with their complete frusrtation and personally support them in whatever action they take next.

i'm sure they feel incredibly decieved and taken for fools by LE.
On top of their sadness now, I'm sure they are resentful...Knoing this about lie early in investigation ma have helped to find NH.  I'd be livid.

Do you think that college in Florida withdrew Joran's acceptance? I hope they did.

Did anyone notice Steve Croes face when he said he lost his job over all of this.  I smell a lawsuit!

Did anyone notice Steve Croes face when he said he lost his job over all of this.  I smell a lawsuit!

Steve Croes lost his job? I feel bad for him. I do think he got dragged into this mess. Poor guy, I hope he gets another chance.

Maybe, just to give the lie added, essential details....But maybe because JVDS and whoever helped him with his story were afraid the body would be found.

This gives me a small bit of hope...if they felt they needed to explain away certian forensic evidence that might have come up, it means that natalee's body might be found yet (i.e. not incinerated or disposed of completely)

Did anyone notice Steve Croes face when he said he lost his job over all of this.  I smell a lawsuit!

Chandra Levy was found by a guy who kept walking in the park with his dog *hoping* they would find Chandra. I'm glad he did.

Steve Croes lost his job? I feel bad for him. I do think he got dragged into this mess. Poor guy, I hope he gets another chance.

Are you being sarcastic? He hampered an investigation by telling a completely false story about something he never even saw just to "be a good guy".

Thanks FOM,
Well when your going through it, you only have ONE thing on your mind. That is to get your child back. You dont care as much about the criminals involved. You just want your child. I can understand their frustration with all the lies. Natalees parents right now just want her, and then theyll deal with the investigation. That is most likely their mindset. Every morning they wake up without an answer, they are waking up with a peice of their soul missing. Again just from my experience.
My situation was different bc I knew who took him. I just didnt know where he was, or if he was alive. I also didnt know who was hiding him, and the police knew someone was assisting. They told me to stay home and wait. I didnt. I was out there looking and questioning people myself. I did impede the investigation, but I got my son back safe and sound. Do I wish I had kept quiet? I cant answer that. Without the pressure me and my family put on the family involved I dont know if my son would have ever been located. I was lucky, my son was fine. I hope they are just as lucky.

Levy's remains were found in Rock Creek Park after a man searching for turtles in "a very inaccessible area" was alerted to the remains by his dog,

Dallas Also
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 341
Location: Dallas
 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:28 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
TVMom, can you give me a little info on why you chose the avatar you've got?

I only ask because I had a dream about Natalee and it included a black-and-white TV.

I can't imagine that a couple of teens could enter a refinery with a dead body, bring it to an incenerator and burn it.  I work in a refinery, next to a Valero refinery in the U.S.  I can't get inside our plant without my badge or without having my vehicle searched.  The security might not be as strong at that location, but I can't imagine it would be some place that someone could easily sneak into and utilize equipment.

Steve Croes lost his job? I feel bad for him. I do think he got dragged into this mess. Poor guy, I hope he gets another chance.

im sure you guys talked about this late night after greta...but i think that if they really use the voice anaylysis thing that could really help all this!  That would def make them feel cornered, since nothing else has worked!

I was watchin this new show that is coming out called the closer and its about real life interrogations adn how they go about it and such........and after watching thta i cant imagine how these kids have no cracked......i guess the changin of the stories is a sign of guilt, but i just would have thought they would have buckled under pressure

watching clip of fox w/ joran in white shirt...nyone know where he is going?? He looks like he is trying hard not to crack  ( A SMILE!)???WTF?? :?:
anyone else see this??

watching clip of fox w/ joran in white shirt...nyone know where he is going?? He looks like he is trying hard not to crack  ( A SMILE!)???WTF?? :?:
anyone else see this??

I saw it, it did look like he was trying not to smile into the cameras.

Didn't the "voice anaylysis " Guys say"PVdS" was telling the truth when said  he believed the HI "Story"? .
Steve WAS gone from work for 10 days.A replacement had to be found.What's a Party Boat without a DJ?? :lol:

Yes...and I thought EXACTLY the same thing...It looked like he was trying not to smirk!  Thought that was TERRIBLE!

im sure you guys talked about this late night after greta...but i think that if they really use the voice anaylysis thing that could really help all this!  That would def make them feel cornered, since nothing else has worked!

I was watchin this new show that is coming out called the closer and its about real life interrogations adn how they go about it and such........and after watching thta i cant imagine how these kids have no cracked......i guess the changin of the stories is a sign of guilt, but i just would have thought they would have buckled under pressure

Didn't the "voice anaylysis " Guys say"PVdS" was telling the truth when said  he believed the HI "Story"? .
Steve WAS gone from work for 10 days.A replacement had to be found.What's a Party Boat without a DJ?? :lol:

Chandra Levy was found by a guy who kept walking in the park with his dog *hoping* they would find Chandra. I'm glad he did.

Steve Croes lost his job? I feel bad for him. I do think he got dragged into this mess. Poor guy, I hope he gets another chance.

the only way i see it affecting their economy is if she has hard proof that they basically all but told her that they don't care about what happened and care more about protecting their reputation......


oops, haven't they just about done that?

Kelly, It is the same Here in the USA. Even Scott Peterson's Mom can Visit him and he is Convicted  of Murder 1.
They even try to keep the convicts near Home to make visits Easy for Familys.

Kelly, It is the same Here in the USA. Even Scott Peterson's Mom can Visit him and he is Convicted  of Murder 1.
They even try to keep the convicts near Home to make visits Easy for Familys.

Kelly, It is the same Here in the USA. Even Scott Peterson's Mom can Visit him and he is Convicted  of Murder 1.
They even try to keep the convicts near Home to make visits Easy for Familys.

If everyone stopped traveling to places where crimes happened and were botched/not solved, etc no one would travel anywhere.

poodle.......you are allowed legal advice from your lawyer. advising your son that if there is not a body, then there won't be a case should raise some serious questions.......why would the subject of a body even be brought up if there was no foul play?

Yeah that is true , but everything is  MONITORED.................... Huge difference here! HUGE>

On what basis would they pull his admittance?  I'm no fan of Joran's but I hope we don't start taking official actions like this based on an assumption.

I wouldn't be surprised if his family pulled it,  as a parent I couldn't imagine sending my kid to the US given the way most people feel.

I got the impression he stuck himself in the case for either money or 15 minutes fame.

I agree.  Steve Croes brought that on himself.  He inserted himself in to a situation he had no business being in.  I was probably looking for some attention.  I feel more sorry for his low self esteem than for him losing his job.

I am not against them being able to have vistors by any means..but Noone can agree wit the factt hat the parents can go in there..talk to their son about anything..........and authorites cant hear anythin.......what do you think the parents are tellin him.........Tell the truth and do the right thing? BULL they are givin him advice on how to keep quiet, not panic, and wait it out til monday....and c what happens there...and go from there

Agreed.  That would never happen here.  None of the suspects in Aruba are allowed to have their lawyers present during interrogations.  That would never happen here either.

Nancy..you ever hear from your friend in A about the supposed "godfather" connection? (or did I miss it?) Any validity to that or did it turn out to be a restatement of Geraldo's report from weeks earlier?

Kelly,
Your right, here in the US they would allow visits, but all visits and communications aside from legal counsel is recorded or monitored in the states. Also the mail coming in and out would be read if it was here. However also here in the states I have heard them say many times they might not have been arrested yet.
You know one thing that crossed my mind last night when they said nothing was being monitored was this. What IF and I know its a big if, they are saying on TV it isnt being monitored in hope that pvds does say something or cross the line, all the while maybe they actually are taping it? You know to make him believe he could say whatever without anyone knowing. Probably wishful thinking, but you never know since they did apparently tap their phones before.

I got the impression also that since pvds was released that the argument they used to not allow visits was no longer gonna fly. Obviously the judge in the case didnt feel there was enough to keep pvds, and therefore Joran being a minor would be allow to visit with his parents. Seemed like what was happening based on what I saw on TV anyway.

If you believe in Democracy and civil rights you have to support these simple human rights.  You might "hope" in this situation they couldn't talk to each other...but, there is a presumption of innocence and with that comes the right to have visitation and legal counsel.

If you had a loved one hauled in a crime they didn't commit you would want to visit and you would definitly want them to have legal counsel AND honor the rights every person has in this country.

We may not like Joran and think he is guilty.  But, fortunately popularity and perceived guilt do not convict.

Yes momto5 agree, But (lol) the minute authorites were made aware that those boys were the last three to be seen with her, they would have taken them in PC (protective custody) and held them and searched, homes, phone records, computers, cars, clothes...etc...then if nothing came up, then yes, in our system, we would need to let them go.......but someting would have been found if it was done right away..yes what is done is done, so why do i keep fallin back to that, bc its gets to me soooo bad, lol..... al they had to do was gather evidence immediately! But oh well, they now have to work with what they have....

How many visits have you had to a prision?
Trust me,they Not Monitor Every Word..
It's a Big room with dozens of people..a few Guards standing around.
**No I do not have crime   Pals** but went on a field Trip for work!

On what basis would they pull his admittance?  I'm no fan of Joran's but I hope we don't start taking official actions like this based on an assumption.

I wouldn't be surprised if his family pulled it,  as a parent I couldn't imagine sending my kid to the US given the way most people feel.

Well, I've finally got to say something...I've been reading for days...last time I got flamed...so I'll try to be more politically correct this time.

The VDS's have both lied, the Kalpoes have lied, Steve Croes lied (what planet is he from?), this Charles Croes fellow is questionable--his story does not jibe with the Twitty's--so someone is lieing (my inference here is CC), my impression is that most of the government representatives, Aruba news folks, and Aruban attorneys are diluting the truth.  The police commissioner is obviously biased.  My point?  All of the above do not treat the truth as if it were a virtue!

My heart goes out to Mr. Holloway, who is obviously not in the "Twitty" loop.

Until everyone starts telling the truth and being sincere in their efforts Natalee will never be found (alive or dead).  If in fact she is alive, by her own actions or the actions of others, she will not or they will not come forward with all of the hipcrosy involved in this case.  If she is dead, God forbid, finding her is severely impaired due to the focus being diverted to the perps.

All I can say is I pray for Natalee. :cry:

In the US, if you lie to federal agents, you can be fined up to $10,000 and/or put in prison for up to 5 years.  Do they have similar laws in Aruba?  Forget about 60 days, this would keep the boys in jail for a few more years.

How many visits have you had to a prision?
Trust me,they Not Monitor Every Word..
It's a Big room with dozens of people..a few Guards standing around.
**No I do not have crime   Pals** but went on a field Trip for work!

If you believe in Democracy and civil rights you have to support these simple human rights.  You might "hope" in this situation they couldn't talk to each other...but, there is a presumption of innocence and with that comes the right to have visitation and legal counsel.

If you had a loved one hauled in for a crime they didn't commit you would want to visit and you would want them to have legal counsel AND honor the rights every person has in this country.

We may not like Joran and think he is guilty.  But, fortunately popularity and perceived guilt do not convict.

Kelly,
Your right, here in the US they would allow visits, but all visits and communications aside from legal counsel is recorded or monitored in the states. Also the mail coming in and out would be read if it was here. However also here in the states I have heard them say many times they might not have been arrested yet.
You know one thing that crossed my mind last night when they said nothing was being monitored was this. What IF and I know its a big if, they are saying on TV it isnt being monitored in hope that pvds does say something or cross the line, all the while maybe they actually are taping it? You know to make him believe he could say whatever without anyone knowing. Probably wishful thinking, but you never know since they did apparently tap their phones before.

Actually, my brother was arrested and put in prison when he was 18. I visited him there on many occasions. Here though it wasnt an open room, atleast not before he was convicted. Before he was convicted we talked to him via phone and a plate glass window. We were told before ever going in that our conversation could be recorded, but at the very least monitored. After his conviction is when it was the open room.
For the record, my brother burglarized some houses in our area when he had run away. We were all questioned about it, and none of us ever lied on his behalf. He had told me what he did, and yes I ratted him out. Does it make me a bad sister? Some might think so, but I was taught never to lie.

I would think the univeristy would pull his scholarship due to character concerns.  You don't want your school to be represented by someone that constantly lies to authorities and obstructs justice.

Anyone think there might be something between the new judge that was brought in (Why was a new one needed in the first place?) and PVDS?  

Do these guys play golf or hang out at the country club together?  Are they part of the same good ol' boy network?

Until he's proven guilty I can't imagine them doing anything.  We question his character...but, like Greta says there's always a chance someone else did this.  I don't believe that...but, until he's either convicted or let go...no official judgment should be made by the school.  That's just fair...taking personal feelings out of it.

Well, I've finally got to say something...I've been reading for days...last time I got flamed...so I'll try to be more politically correct this time.

The VDS's have both lied, the Kalpoes have lied, Steve Croes lied (what planet is he from?), this Charles Croes fellow is questionable--his story does not jibe with the Twitty's--so someone is lieing (my inference here is CC), my impression is that most of the government representatives, Aruba news folks, and Aruban attorneys are diluting the truth.  The police commissioner is obviously biased.  My point?  All of the above do not treat the truth as if it were a virtue!

My heart goes out to Mr. Holloway, who is obviously not in the "Twitty" loop.

Until everyone starts telling the truth and being sincere in their efforts Natalee will never be found (alive or dead).  If in fact she is alive, by her own actions or the actions of others, she will not or they will not come forward with all of the hipcrosy involved in this case.  If she is dead, God forbid, finding her is severely impaired due to the focus being diverted to the perps.

All I can say is I pray for Natalee. :cry:

THANK YOU MOMTO5!  Exactly what i was tryin to get across..normally people who have yet to be convicted are not to get visitors in the big rooms like that..it is more of a confined area..but what do i know.....i was never in jail, and my foster brother was only in there for a short time.

Where I work, you can't be fired untill you are convicted. It would be considered punishment for the innocent. It would be an open invitation for a lawsuit.

Well, it's Thursday or as it's known in Aruba, "The best day of the week to arrest people!"

Anyone think we may see some new happenings today?

your welcome, I got what you were trying to say lol.

I read a quote on a "missing persons site"..


When someone you love is missing..it feels like you have been shot in the heart..but you did not die...

Being fired isn't the same as losing your scholarship though. A school can pull your scholarship at any time. At some schools Student Athletes are held to a higher standard of behavior than regular students. I can't imagine they want this kid after all this.

Joran WAS in Jail..He is Now in KIA  Prison.They have a Juvi.  Section
Was A Judge that ordered the "  visits"..  That the rules there.
Goofy?? YES...
 :roll:

Being fired isn't the same as losing your scholarship though. A school can pull your scholarship at any time. At some schools Student Athletes are held to a higher standard of behavior than regular students. I can't imagine they want this kid after all this.

Morning to all! :D

"We’re just getting tired of being the scapegoat of a young girl making a foolish decision."

Do you think most Arubans/people living on Aruba feel this way?  Maybe that's why few are eager to come forward with info/help?

Just pondering a few things this am...

I don't think that is the way most Arubans feel.  I think they are genuinely concerned but at the same time a bit defensive due to all the media accusations.  It's a natural response.

I also feel the same about Paulas.  He should be put on a leave of absence from his job pending the outcome of this case...but, until this is settled he should not be fired.  I think I read somewhere he was fired...personally I think that's wrong, if it's true.

Morning to all! :D

"We’re just getting tired of being the scapegoat of a young girl making a foolish decision."

Do you think most Arubans/people living on Aruba feel this way?  Maybe that's why few are eager to come forward with info/help?

Just pondering a few things this am...

Nancy - You seem like a respectable and responsible person and mother.  I'm sure your son would not lie to to the authorities to begin with.  Thus, there would be no question regarding his character.

 :)

I also want to say something else here and I hope that people will pay attention.  Whether you are under the Dutch or the American legal system, citizens have rights.  I am totally flabberghasted that the American press replayed words spoken by Paulus Van Der Sloot on the television and then used an voice analyzer to given opinions as to "stressed" "truth" "evasion" etc. etc.  That machine has not been universally tested on hundreds of thousands of people and recognized all over the world as completely accurate.  What on earth are they thinking?  To put that on television is outrageous.  The people of Aruba are going to need a new chapter of the ACLU called the Aruba Civil Libertities.

I totally believe Joran should  lose his scholarship. Especially if it is at St. Leo's as people have said. It is a private catholic school and i'm sure they would not want the bad publicity of having this kid there. He will not come to the US after this, i'm sure, unless he changes his name and appearance. he would probably be attacked physically and verbally anywhere in the US... hmmm.... he schould look into going to U of Alabama!

I totally believe Joran should  lose his scholarship. Especially if it is at St. Leo's as people have said. It is a private catholic school and i'm sure they would not want the bad publicity of having this kid there. He will not come to the US after this, i'm sure, unless he changes his name and appearance. he would probably be attacked physically and verbally anywhere in the US... hmmm.... he schould look into going to U of Alabama!

Thanks Mariloo1!

More of my humble opinion....the prosecutor got screwed by the judge and is really ticked off...she didn't want PVDS released...she didn't want parental visits for the "boys"...so I get the impression that since the courts are not working "with her", she has just thrown up her hands and said, "Just go ahead and visit, what the h*ll!"  Don't think the "boys" will stay for the next 60 days.  BTW, what do we know about the new judge? :roll:

I totally believe Joran should  lose his scholarship. Especially if it is at St. Leo's as people have said. It is a private catholic school and i'm sure they would not want the bad publicity of having this kid there. He will not come to the US after this, i'm sure, unless he changes his name and appearance. he would probably be attacked physically and verbally anywhere in the US... hmmm.... he schould look into going to U of Alabama!

I also feel the same about Paulas.  He should be put on a leave of absence from his job pending the outcome of this case...but, until this is settled he should not be fired.  I think I read somewhere he was fired...personally I think that's wrong, if it's true.

Greta On the Record Show emphazises the fact that if no MSM in Aruba, was reporting Natalee missing, how come Joran had a ready made alibi with Deepak the night after?  Precisely about 2am ?  Some poster had mentioned that logically the father called Joran stateting that the Holloway Twits family was at their house looking for their missing daughter.   If Joran was with Deepak at the Wyndham then they could have concocted an alibi on the way home.  They may have missed the Twits on the way home.  I would be curious if at the Wyndham if there are records of Joran in the Casino.  The bogus email or not mentioned Radison, I d check to see there as well.  Most locals I thought had to sign in? Maybe not, since Joran kinda looks like a tourist.  I think that will help establishing and confirming location of the day after.

It is my understanding with most scholarships they are based on grades, behavior, and charactor. So it wouldnt surprise me if his scholarship was pulled. Alot has come out about his gambling. If this is a catholic school as you say. I am catholic and know they generally look down on this sort of behavior. If it is also a private college, I attended one of those. They threatened to kick me out for missing Chapel. They fly by different rules usually.

www. awemainta.com..has an interesting article, appearant Nel Oduber is cautioning people of Aruba to give information, perhaps even opinion on this ongoing case.

No one knows for sure if this kid is guilty.  I hope schools in our country don't make decisions based on opinion.  We all have to protect these kind of rights as they shouldn't  be changed and manipulated on hearsay.

Joran pisses me off and I'm willin' to bet he's guilty.  But, do any of us know that for sure?  I would sure hate it if my kid lost a scholarship based on a "maybe".

Shell,
My husband is starting to ger bored with the coverage. I hope his feeling isnt like alot of other people.

I heard he was suspended, then I heard that he stepped down temporarily to concentrate on his family through this ordeal.  Don't know what is true in any aspect of this case.   :?

I'm not defending Joran.  I am defending the constitutional rights each person has in this country.  It's damn hard to take personal feelings out of such discussions...but, we have to.  

You and I aren't the judge and jury here.

As long as he is a suspect to a crime against a U.S. citizen, should he be allow entry to the U.S.

I would'nt hold it against other countries denying U.S. citizens entry if they are suspect to a crime.

As long as he is a suspect to a crime against a U.S. citizen, should he be allow entry to the U.S.

I would'nt hold it against other countries denying U.S. citizens entry if they are suspect to a crime.

Unrelated question - why do I have to keep logging in??

Nancy, you are right, but it is also human nature to have a feeling about things and to make judgements based on those feelings.  That't the main reason I could never sit on a jury in a case like this because my mind is pretty much made up, not that it can't be swayed if evidence points elsewhere, but I have made a judgement in my heart here based on what I know right now.  Anyway, that's why I state everything that is not fact as "my opinion".  I don't ever say "he is guilty", I only say "in my opinion I think he is responsible".

I was surprised to hear on Fox today that the Police are just now trying to create a time line and analyzing the cell phone , emails, and chat room messages. Did I understand that correctly?

They also made it clear a couple nights ago at this point they just want their daughter, and dont care as much anymore about the investigation. If they know more, and think telling the media would help, then I am sure they will do it. I can understand how the feel. When my son was missing I didnt care about the legal issues. After I got him back though I wanted justice and basically had screwed that up. No one was ever arrested for taking my son, or helping hide him. Honestly though I was just pissed off and wanted them taken in, now I am just glad I got him back.

I will try to type as much information as it is reported...from Fox News..
    "Prosecutors want to retain the three for two more months.  Interview with NH family coming up.....PVDS counseled three.

H Family Atty:  prosecution has filed motion to keep suspects for 60 days to continue investigation.  Boys were let go in order to follow them and see what they were up to.  they have all phone and computer records...hard evidence.  It is believed that they have recordings of conversation.  Don't actually need a body...if u don't have body but have other evidence you can convict.  Atty believes there are recordings of phone conversations."  

Man who spoke to PVDS and J the next day coming up:

I got the impression he stuck himself in the case for either money or 15 minutes fame.

s-  i wonered how Joran got home from casino that night bfore dad (who rode with LE??)) and Twittys...anyone get that part?

Hi
have been reading this for a month. just brave enough to get on.
have been wondering. someone posted pictures of ships in harbor the
night they were there on vacation. could boys have possibley taken
her to one of these ships and have friends they sold her to
the beach could be another lie. no one saw them after they left the bar.
is this how they get their money for gambling and partying
just a thought. :oops:

How many visits have you had to a prision?
Trust me,they Not Monitor Every Word..
It's a Big room with dozens of people..a few Guards standing around.
**No I do not have crime   Pals** but went on a field Trip for work!

Hi have been reading this for a month. just brave enough to get on.

You took a field trip to an Aruban prison??

Ever think MAYBE their system isn't EXACTLY like the one in the prison you visited?? Just a thought!

I don't think that he was at the casino,,my opinion,,,but Charles C. said to Greta's question that Paulus rode with the polis,,,so I would bet that when they went back to the HI that both he and his father rode with the polis,,,That would be a good question,,a good time to let Joran know exactly what was coming down,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,by his dad and the polis,,  I am sorry, but I do not trust them,,,

Jug said last nite that he felt that some of the people that were helpful at first, now act as if they wish they (family) would just go away,,,,,

hi and welcome sweethoney.
myself and others have thought that too.
it would explain why there is no trace of her...and how joran got $$$ or paid debt off if he had one he didn't want to tell daddy/mommy about.

You took a field trip to an Aruban prison??

Ever think MAYBE their system isn't EXACTLY like the one in the prison you visited?? Just a thought!

HMMM>>> so how did Joran get to casino??

Seems to me they'd be glad to have him for a visit, just to 'chat.'

Hi
have been reading this for a month. just brave enough to get on.
have been wondering. someone posted pictures of ships in harbor the
night they were there on vacation. could boys have possibley taken
her to one of these ships and have friends they sold her to
the beach could be another lie. no one saw them after they left the bar.
is this how they get their money for gambling and partying
just a thought. :oops:

Unrelated question - why do I have to keep logging in??

I'm glkad u got him back.
the NH family has bit their tongue imo and tried to work with polis to get Natalee...in light of this new truth/lie I agree with their complete frusrtation and personally support them in whatever action they take next.

i'm sure they feel incredibly decieved and taken for fools by LE.
On top of their sadness now, I'm sure they are resentful...Knoing this about lie early in investigation ma have helped to find NH.  I'd be livid.

hi and welcome sweethoney.
myself and others have thought that too.
it would explain why there is no trace of her...and how joran got $$$ or paid debt off if he had one he didn't want to tell daddy/mommy about.

Did anyone notice Steve Croes face when he said he lost his job over all of this.  I smell a lawsuit!

I'd be happy to invite him over to my <s>basement</s>, err living room.
  :twisted:

Nancy - I'm not questioning his guilt or innocence (although I think he is guilty as sin), I'm saying he lacks the character to receive a scholarship at a university.  

If it's a private college? fugetaboutit.

I feel the same. I personally feel Joran is guity. I think he's a cocky jerk. I also think dad has possibly acted illegally. We have the right to discuss this case using our gut feeling based on what we know so far. Part of me loves the thought of "hanging him by his nuts" as someone suggested. HOWEVER, when it comes to rights I take a far different stance. I trust our founding fathers were wise and made our laws for very good reason. The fact is innocent people are convicted everyday...and guilty people go free everyday....while that's not fair...it's still the best damn system in the world

What new lie??  Monkeys type much faster than my life allows me to read.

So what about the withdrawals in the middle of the night by PVDS from an ATM?  Could those withdrawals be $$$ to pay SC?  Since we keep hearing about this, do we have any proof?

Oh, Nancy I know you are right.  This probably isn't the best day for me to be talking about our judicial system.  Off topic, I know, but my best friend was beaten and stalked in two different states by the same man and we arrived for his preliminary hearing this morning on the stalking charges here and they informed her that they let him out of jail 2 days ago and pled him to a misdemeanor charge of violating a protective order, set him free, and would not extradite to the other state for the charges there.  Today, I'm not real happy with our system.

We have shortened the idle time out.

To cut down on the number of inactive connections, just taking up space.

This is one of a LONG list of events that we have no real confirmation for. So much in this case is built on "rumors" rather than proven facts. I would lump the "by-the-pool-plan-alibi" meeting, the McDonald's pickup, the "confession", the late-night car wash, and this event together right now as being UNPROVEN.

Heck I am at work - I have to be idle either here or my work stuff!! :D

It seems to be very quick...a couple of minutes (sigh)

sorry to hear dragonfly...often the system is tougher for the victim.

Yeah! What new lie? I can't keep up!!!! I still have a semi-life and missed much of the posts over the last days and the news

 :arrow: Sorry. I meant new revelation on fox that w/in 24 hours Joran and Paulus had concocted the first big lie... " is this evidence of a cover-up" says fox on right now...Does anyone else find this ironic big news after Mickey stands up to say whole famil involved???
 I'm glad he said what he did.
Seems like his info put spolight back on pvds and joran and Le in relation to there possibly being a cover up... voice analysis info should be good...

Thanks, I thought it was something new.

Are they going to actually allow the voice analysis?

Are they going to actually allow the voice analysis?[/color]

I think there's more to this story.
Anyone else have feelings to this?

Hey Diva, I must have missed something here...have seen the voice analysis tool mentioned...who is bringing that in?  Is the TX group facilitating that?  Will the local LE use that..and will the results be legal in their system??

Lots of Questions!!!!

Hey Diva, I must have missed something here...have seen the voice analysis tool mentioned...who is bringing that in?  Is the TX group facilitating that?  Will the local LE use that..and will the results be legal in their system??

Lots of Questions!!!!

Something I noticed last night while watching CNN with Nancy Grace, she asked Tim Miller(equusearch guy) how things were coming along in the search. He said that he couldn't give details as to where they are searching but he did tell her that over the next few days they beleive they will find Natalee. He said today would be an important day in the search. And he did say that it would be in the water, very dangerous.

I hope and pray he is right....they need to find Natalee or I fear these three will walk

Did anyone else see this? I didn't...but I was out for most of the evening   I'm wondering if they are still in that quarry where they initially got the HIT from the cadaver's.

Morning Candygirl...  

Yes, I agree with you.  He's a player in this, for sure.

Hey Diva, I must have missed something here...have seen the voice analysis tool mentioned...who is bringing that in?  Is the TX group facilitating that?  Will the local LE use that..and will the results be legal in their system??

Lots of Questions!!!!

I thought Jug said last night on CNN that yes the LE/Dutch was all for the voice analysis and were excited to use it

quote]

You took a field trip to an Aruban prison??

Ever think MAYBE their system isn't EXACTLY like the one in the prison you visited?? Just a thought!

I know that Jug has said he got a call from someone in Atlant that had one and he wanted to use it, it was on last wk's Greta I think, but I haven't heard they were actually going to allow it to be used

Good Morning to ALL!  Today is a new day and I feel very good that something big is going to come about today.......lets hope anyway!

Did anyone hear SC mention he was doing security on the boat that night and he slept there also? I found that info. very interesting.  Also, he had a big smile on his face when he said it....I think there's more to this story.
Anyone else have feelings to this?

 I asked about that yesterday....????  if is was answered I missed it

Sunny

 I asked about that yesterday....????  if is was answered I missed it

Sunny

Hey Diva, I must have missed something here...have seen the voice analysis tool mentioned...who is bringing that in?  Is the TX group facilitating that?  Will the local LE use that..and will the results be legal in their system??

Lots of Questions!!!!

My understanding,
Jug had someone bring in the voice analysis tool.
Undetermined if local LE will use the tool.
Undetermined if it will be legal to use in Aruba.  
LE has given Jug and co audio to run thru analysis on the machine.
Will be used primarily to determine who is lying and how to best facilitate going forward with the hunt for Natalee.

Now there yah go!...Didn't all I had to do was ask.

Boys were let go in order to follow them and see what they were up to.  

My understanding from Tim MIller interview last night was they will be in water today, not inland water.   This leads me to believe in the ocean.

I absolutely beleive that too, I sure hope he's under surveilance

tito  .on FOX... Voice  tech...not admissable.BOooooo

My understanding from Tim MIller interview last night was they will be in water today, not inland water.   This leads me to believe in the ocean.

He was also saying that he could'nt remember at first where he was that night.  Then it came to him that he was on the boat all night.  I don't know what to think about anything anymore having to do with this case.  I just keep reminding myself that there is a real girl missing and a real mother in pain.

tito  .on FOX... Voice  tech...not admissable.BOooooo

tito  .on FOX... Voice  tech...not admissable.BOooooo

the 3 put in the same room again ! Wonder what was said??
this after paul talked to Joran..

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post earlier...this is the one to which I was referring: I agree with above and thought he was a little TOO happy just coming out of prison---had too good of a time?

All that I heard him say was "in the water"

I didn't hear him say "not inland"

They should obtain a shirt like Natalie was wearing that night, damage it a little and put it in an see through evidence bag, then interrogate them with that evidence bag sitting innocently at the end of the table and watch their reaction.

They should obtain a shirt like Natalie was wearing that night, damage it a little and put it in an see through evidence bag, then interrogate them with that evidence bag sitting innocently at the end of the table and watch their reaction.

the 3 put in the same room again ! Wonder what was said??
this after paul talked to Joran..

That is aginst The  LAW.  You wish to Beat them,also?

That is aginst The  LAW.  You wish to Beat them,also?

will they still use it for investigative purposes tho?

<<If he is Innocent, why would you say that??
Nothing has been proven.>>


Are you kidding?  If you're caught cheating on a standardized exam, you're pretty close to radioactive to all U.S. colleges.  (I recall that it's a 3% acceptance rate for students in this situation.)

This kid perpatrated fraud in a missing persons investigation.  That fraud stands a good chance of causing the missing persons case never to be solved.  And a university is supposed to let the kid in with a deep discount?

Saint Leo University can - and will - revise its character assessment.  It also has the right to minimize the chance that angry mobs will disrupt campus life.

And what could Joran do about it?  Sue?  He'd have the burden of proof on whatever half-assed theory he'd come up with.  That burden would almost certainly include proving that he didn't have anything to do with Natalee's disappearance.  And he'd have no right against self-incrimination.  Trust me - Joran isn't going anywhere near a courtroom if he gets out of this jam.

i think they already did / last nite on fox/pvds/highly stressed

yeah, really looks like the days of lynching are still around.

i think they already did / last nite on fox/pvds/highly stressed

i think they already did / last nite on fox/pvds/highly stressed

That is aginst The  LAW.  You wish to Beat them,also?

My understanding from Tim MIller interview last night was they will be in water today, not inland water.   This leads me to believe in the ocean.

I don't know if or why it would be against the law in Aruba..but it is not against the law in the US....there many many such 'tricks' used, just like telling one that the other has agreed to talk for a lesser charge and is going to put all the blame on YOU!

DANG, kids...nobody said anything about a lynching.  How is a shirt in a ziploc the same as a beating?  Am I missing something?

NO "Plea  Bargain" in Aruba.

All that I heard him say was "in the water"

I didn't hear him say "not inland"

the 3 put in the same room again ! Wonder what was said??
this after paul talked to Joran..

I missed last nights news except for bits of Greta and her weathermen, I was trying to eat my dinner at 9:30  :roll:  after taking care of my 5 y.o monkey  :lol:

Was posted last night on rwv that law enforecement did NOT release the interview tape to the voice analyzer people.

It has been mentioned a number of times by American media that sodium pentathol is legal to use in Aruba during the course of an investigation.  Seems that NOW is the TIME to utilize it.  Again, as a tool, the results are not admissable into the court room.  Think at a minimum it would be effective with the Kalpoe brothers, now I don't know how that drug effects sociopath's, I certainly believe sociopath's can fool a lie detector & probably voice analysis.

Please Ms. Prosecutor, utilize ALL the TOOLS available to you.  JMHO[/size][/b]

I saw an interview with BHT lastnight...it was a replay from earlier in the day...but she emphaisied that Natalee had been KIDNAPPED....she was also talking about her 90 minute meeting with the VDS's and about PVDS perspiring....and said it was more of what he 'wouldn't respond to' than what he actually said that reinforced her feeling that he knew more than he said.

the emphatic use of KIDNAPPED struck me as odd.....she has gone back to saying kidnapped instead of 'what happened to Natalee' as she has been saying more recently.......sure wish she would have told more about what he wouldn't respond to!

Good Morning everyone!!

Sunny

Ok-after I took a break for my breathing, one thought that crossed my mind-maybe they are bringing all 3 in the same room to use the voice analysis on them?  Hmm---back to a positive here--

Really freak them out by having someone close in height/weight, blonde hair, same type of clothes (in general, men don't remember exactly what kind of clothing and colors) my husband doesn't 95% of the time, walk by their cells and see their reaction.

It has been mentioned a number of times by American media that sodium pentathol is legal to use in Aruba during the course of an investigation.  Seems that NOW is the TIME to utilize it.  Again, as a tool, the results are not admissable into the court room.  Think at a minimum it would be effective with the Kalpoe brothers, now I don't know how that drug effects sociopath's, I certainly believe sociopath's can fool a lie detector & probably voice analysis.
Please Ms. Prosecutor, utilize ALL the TOOLS available to you.  JMHO

Confessions.  Confessions must be voluntary and
may not be obtained through the use of force,
threat, or promises; drugs, alcohol, hypnosis or
exhaustion.  They are to be taken in the accused's
own words (Code of Criminal Procedure, Article
29). If a confession is involuntarily obtained it
will be excluded from the trial (Lensing and
Rayar, 1992; 627; Schreuder, 1993).
     During police interrogation, suspects have
the right to remain silent and cannot be forced to
answer police questions.  During the 6-hour
detention period, police are allowed to question
suspects and may refuse them access to a lawyer.
After the 6-hour detention in cases where police
make an arrest for an "arrestable" (felony)
offense, a lawyer is automatically provided the
accused.

If you look at the shirt Natalee was wearing that night you will notice that its one of a kind, I doubt they will every forget what that shirt looks like.

You know I hope Natalee is found and those who are responsible are brought to justice, but I myself have to admit alll this negative Media and scandal is turning me away.
It's tabloid reporting!!
I still remeber rachel cooke, her family are still searching and have no clues.


 Your "brought to justice" quote reminds me of looking for bin laden...........It's been 3 years and they STILL haven't found him.  Took 6 MONTHS to arrest Scott Peterson.............

Is this ARUBAN law?

AHH... that is why it is Posted..YES

I found this article to be great and makes great points

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8417771/

REFERENCE:
FOX NEWS: Investigation disrupted?
http://nataleeholloway.tripod.com/

Paulus Van der Sloot "If the police don't find a body.. there is no case."

If PVdS said "don't find a body".. then they must re-arrest him.. BECAUSE PVdS _HAS__KNOWLEDGE_ OF "_A__BODY_" !!!


-

Considering JVDS and the Brothers origional story about the dropping Natalee off at the Hotel, has anyone else thought that the addition of the information about Natalee "falling" and the possible addition of Natalee having sex with Joron could have been added to the story for a reason?

Maybe, just to give the lie added, essential details....But maybe because JVDS and whoever helped him with his story were afraid the body would be found.

This gives me a small bit of hope...if they felt they needed to explain away certian forensic evidence that might have come up, it means that natalee's body might be found yet (i.e. not incinerated or disposed of completely)

what ws that little blurb that i caught on the news all about? it said the holloways will go to the media soon if nothing is done or no progress is made?????


i 100% know i heard it, but i never heard it explained. i figured they would tell all they have been told and what they have seen which could embarass a lot of people. :?

I don't know if or why it would be against the law in Aruba..but it is not against the law in the US....there many many such 'tricks' used, just like telling one that the other has agreed to talk for a lesser charge and is going to put all the blame on YOU!

I don't know if or why it would be against the law in Aruba..but it is not against the law in the US....there many many such 'tricks' used, just like telling one that the other has agreed to talk for a lesser charge and is going to put all the blame on YOU!

NO "Plea  Bargain" in Aruba.

Mother suspected something may happen -- She was too sure that Natalee would call her -- not wanting to come back to the states. Where'd she get that idea, anyway?

This is getting ridiculous.  I am trying to stay positive and hopeful this will be resolved--but come on already!  I don't understand why they keep putting all 3 in the room together..Geez so they can change their story again but this time they will be back on the same page?  So they can now make up a story how no one knows SC?  How PVDS did not tell them anything-he wasn't up or home or whatever.  Then PVDS gets to see and talk to JVDS--OK Joran-we have them where we want them.  Here is the next thing we need to do/say. OK Dad, I'm listening and will tell the guys.

OMG, WTF?  This is horrible.  PVDS is a judge in training-he knows the ins/outs-the wrong thing to do/say while talking to police/investigators...I need to breath--INHALE....EXHALE....

Confessions.  Confessions must be voluntary and
may not be obtained through the use of force,
threat, or promises; drugs, alcohol, hypnosis or
exhaustion.

It has been mentioned a number of times by American media that sodium pentathol is legal to use in Aruba during the course of an investigation.  Seems that NOW is the TIME to utilize it.  Again, as a tool, the results are not admissable into the court room.  Think at a minimum it would be effective with the Kalpoe brothers, now I don't know how that drug effects sociopath's, I certainly believe sociopath's can fool a lie detector & probably voice analysis.

Please Ms. Prosecutor, utilize ALL the TOOLS available to you.  JMHO[/size][/b]

I'm making a phone call after lunch .



Royal Netherlands Embassy

4200 Linnean Avenue, NW, Washington DC 20008

Telephone: (202) 244-5300
Fax: (202) 362-3430
URL: http://www.netherlands-embassy.org/

 :)

I agree.  Steve Croes brought that on himself.  He inserted himself in to a situation he had no business being in.  I was probably looking for some attention.  I feel more sorry for his low self esteem than for him losing his job.

Using a "prop" (such as your shirt in a bag, Taz) is not a lie. And I would love to know what type props were used on MJ when he and the other guard were arrested!

If that's, in fact, true, then what is their legal rationale for not administering polygraph tests, which are NOT admissable in US courts either, but have immeasurable value in moving an investigation forward.

hey (((((KERIN)))). I agree..  a prop eing used wouldnt be a lie.. I am friend with a detective.. good friends.. I called him and asked him about that.. he said things like that are done alot around here to get one to talk.
Sandrak gets a bit defensive about this because SC is her baby..and is friends  of a friend of his.  Shes posted that as well.. so I am not BS'N..!

Altho' I have to admit I do like the secrecy, but that lends itself to corruption. it's a 20/20 situation IMO

Using a "prop" (such as your shirt in a bag, Taz) is not a lie. And I would love to know what type props were used on MJ when he and the other guard were arrested!

hey (((((KERIN)))). I agree..  a prop eing used wouldnt be a lie.. I am friend with a detective.. good friends.. I called him and asked him about that.. he said things like that are done alot around here to get one to talk.
Sandrak gets a bit defensive about this because SC is her baby..and is friends  of a friend of his.  Shes posted that as well.. so I am not BS'N..!

He said..none.

And that "Secrecy" will also lead to millions of speculations and lies thanks to the media ...

yes , I've heard too many stories of detectives using unlawful methods in order to get a false confession to boost up there career.

Is there a video link available that shows Juron and his SMUG face being transported fromm jail to the police station from yesterday.

Thank you in advance.

DID YOU SEE THAT!!!!!! It was almost like he was laughing. I wanted to just punch him in the face....smack, smack, smack

I'm curious about something.

How will the VDSs afford sending Joran to college in the USA, when only Anita has a job as a school teacher, teaching art?

I am positive that Arubans have described the VDS as MIDDLE CLASS, that they are not part of the wealthy upper class on the island.

When Joran received a sports scholarship, was his scholarship to Saint Leo's a full scholarship, or partial?

I mean, really, isn't just the flight between Florida and Aruba kinda pricey?

Much less dormatory, books, athletic equipment, and whatever portion of tuition they are responsible for.


Might this be a reason behind all that gambling and the poker games -- that they are too "broke" to send Joran onto the college he was accepted to?

On another thread it was posited that were the perpetrator to have sold NH, that they'd probably receive around $20,000.

Seems like that would be helpful to a family maybe unable, suddenly & unexpectedly, to afford their eldest son's postsecondary education.

Well come on, guys...you cannot expect him to be seen crying in front of the cameras!!!

(After all he knows his future GF's may be watching...he has an image to portray)  :D

Here u go
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?063005/usworld_aruba_063005&FNL&Investigation%20Disrupted%3F&acc&U.S.%20%26%20World&-1&new

I just woke up and turned on Fox....Mark Furhman is on first thing this morning...Uggggghhhhhhhh.

Yeah Angie!!! Blonde humor, ya know?

I dint imply that my detective friend has ever done that.. he hasnt.. nor anyone of his co workers.. BUT it does happen.!! I dont think its a way for a detective to BOOST thier career for a confession., false or not. IMO.

The other night, there was quite a discussion with the night crew about interrogation methods in Aruba.  One of the monkeys brought up a statement by PVDS that he was concerned about the interrogation because Aruba did not follow the Dutch system in that they had their own method, something like Zaanse.  Other posters were telling bits and pieces about that method, and it was nothing like what you just described in that it did seem more harsh.

Of course, the other night there were links for all this.

Do you know anything about that method?

Is there a video link available that shows Juron and his SMUG face being transported fromm jail to the police station from yesterday.

Thank you in advance.

Do you guys think that the media and I guess generally people are starting to lose interest in this.  It seems that there are less people on the boards.  I guess my concern is that it is gradually fading away, which is not a good thing.

If that's, in fact, true, then what is their legal rationale for not administering polygraph tests, which are NOT admissable in US courts either, but have immeasurable value in moving an investigation forward.

OH GEEZ...PVDS is wearing a "Natalee" bracelet?? Give me a break!!!

i wonder if the holloways have tried to investigate using a psychic...i mean at this point, why not? all you have now is hope and time.

r u serious??? I am staring to think we are making this up as we go Kerinn
WTF????

Yeah Angie!!! Blonde humor, ya know?

r u serious??? I am staring to think we are making this up as we go Kerinn
WTF????

i wonder if the holloways have tried to investigate using a psychic...i mean at this point, why not? all you have now is hope and time.

How did PVDS get one?  I ordered mine over a week ago from the radio station via the web and mine still hasn't come.  And I'm only one state away from AL.

now i know why we understand each other :lol:

Angie, roxy is being sarcastic and inciting, It might be best to not even respond.  It would be interesting to hear your friends ideas regarding this case.[/quote
Thanks Taz...
He thinks its a big cover up.. thats his opinion.. and he said he hated to say this.. but feels form everything that is happening.. that NH is more then likely gone.. dead.. and perhaps wont be found either..Id PM you but they are disabled... I dont want people on this forum getting upset about what his opinion is.  He thinks PVDS has ALOT to do with this.. and perhaps maybe Satish COULD be guilty to a certain extent for perhaps covering for his brother... He really dont know what to make of this.. he said its a very bizzare case..none like hes ever worked on before.

Hey Guys

Here is an interesting piece from Diario, Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1204

Aruba Girl strikes again ...  :D

one would think if they thought the boys were innocent, they would gladly open their doors in helping the boys release.  Sounds like there's more there that we don't know about.???????????

That's just plain BS....there must be some way to make them allow the search.

Angie!!you Blond too???
I knew there was someting I liked about  YOU  :D

Sandra...do you live in Aruba? I had a question if you do.

(also it is me that's the blonde...Angie is the cute brunette)  :D

I thought I read somewhere that Joran had either a full academic or a full athletic scholarship to some college in Florida - I am sure the rest could be made up in grants, aid, whatever to make his going to school in the states very affordable - if colleges want someone bad enough they make it all affordable - and I thought he was supposed to be a pretty good tennis player??!!

LMAO Kerin   and I was just thinking of asking SandraK the same question.. if she does indeed live in Aruba?????????????

Angie, roxy is being sarcastic and inciting, It might be best to not even respond.  It would be interesting to hear your friends ideas regarding this case.

How is the monkey cage today?

Candygirl:

Equisearch isnt getting police backing, so any searches they are doing are voluntary.  The police wont demand that equisearch be allowed to search anywhere on that island.  They are probably up against alot of resistance on the island.

Im not really sure whose side those people over there are on.

LMAO Kerin   and I was just thinking of asking SandraK the same question.. if she does indeed live in Aruba?????????????

I was not being sarcastic at all, maybe you should think twice before judging my intentions. :x
I do not believe in using these kind of methods because people will give false testimony that can be thrown out of court.
Do I believe "some" dectectives will use case to boost their career , yes!!
It has been proven in many cases and some of the defendants who are actually guilty are set free.
I want to find out what happened to Natalee as much as anyone else but I don't agree with some of the methods of the media, families and police.
If you want to call me a bleeding heart liberal, thats fine but sarcastic on this opinion no.

Did she answer? Because I have a question that is troubling me and I want to ask someone who lives there.

No not in Aruba now.
But YES I'm Blond!!
**sorry**I was over@ RW Reading.

>>Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House

Since their in jail, it seems to me the search could be legally forced if the Polis accompanied ES. Wonder if that will happen...

And you think OJ is innocent too i bet.

FOM...since PM's are down would you please ask Mickey something the next time you talk to him? Would you ask him what tactics were used on him from the time police entered his home until he was let go? I mean I know he said he was treated well but I am curious as to what "type" interrogations (spoken or otherwise) were used.
(I will pay for the international minutes if you want) LOL

one would think if they thought the boys were innocent, they would gladly open their doors in helping the boys release.  Sounds like there's more there that we don't know about.???????????

ExTexinAZ; no Natalee's cell was left with her bags.
Apparently
rumor is that the family had a call from aruba and speculation is it was a kidnapping call, from who nobody knows

Who WOULD let them in? Your kids are sitting in jail and you are supposed to let these folks from TX come search your house?? Cmon...get real. Who would really let them in. I certainly wouldn't!

It is a far stretch comparing them to the police on the island. I'm surprised they'd (Equusearch) even ask actually.

>>Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House

Since their in jail, it seems to me the search could be legally forced if the Polis accompanied ES. Wonder if that will happen...

Who WOULD let them in? Your kids are sitting in jail and you are supposed to let these folks from TX come search your house?? Cmon...get real. Who would really let them in. I certainly wouldn't!

It is a far stretch comparing them to the police on the island. I'm surprised they'd (Equusearch) even ask actually.

Tourism is the mainstay of the small, open Aruban economy, with offshore banking and oil refining and storage also important. The rapid growth of the tourism sector over the last decade has resulted in a substantial expansion of other activities. Construction has boomed, with hotel capacity five times the 1985 level. In addition, the reopening of the country's oil refinery in 1993, a major source of employment and foreign exchange earnings, has further spurred growth. Aruba's small labor force and low unemployment rate have led to a large number of unfilled job vacancies, despite sharp rises in wage rates in recent years. Tourist arrivals have declined in the aftermath of the 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks on the US. The government now must deal with a budget deficit and a negative trade balance.  
GDP: purchasing power parity - $1.94 billion

That's just plain BS....there must be some way to make them allow the search.

FOM...since PM's are down would you please ask Mickey something the next time you talk to him? Would you ask him what tactics were used on him from the time police entered his home until he was let go? I mean I know he said he was treated well but I am curious as to what "type" interrogations (spoken or otherwise) were used.
(I will pay for the international minutes if you want) LOL

i'll call him soon.

Perhaps Fox News did not mention it yet, but there is some "resistence" against all the media on the island ...
One of the reasons why Paul van der S. did not want to give an interview to Fox News.
As the search team has nothing to do with the police, they are allowed to refuse them (and I know it makes them a bit suspicious)

Afternoon Monkeys,
Any news or developments today?  Working and stopped for lunch to check in with my fellow cage members.
Thanks

a girl answered and said i had wrong #...he said he was done talking...guess I know what dushi is doing now then??
-later kerin

Perhaps Fox News did not mention it yet, but there is some "resistence" against all the media on the island ...
One of the reasons why Paul van der S. did not want to give an interview to Fox News.
As the search team has nothing to do with the police, they are allowed to refuse them (and I know it makes them a bit suspicious)

Don't mean to butt in-but If I am not mistaken on the Greta interview, Greta asked that too.  She told him how Jorans' mom said Joran was being interrogated for 11 hours/day.  Mickey replied with-they questioned him that day and the next and that was it-he sat there and then was released.

Maybe this helps.  FOM correct me if I am wrong :)

Who WOULD let them in? Your kids are sitting in jail and you are supposed to let these folks from TX come search your house?? Cmon...get real. Who would really let them in. I certainly wouldn't!

Absolutely! I would allow the search IF I thought there was any hope of clearing my sons.

It is a far stretch comparing them to the police on the island. I'm surprised they'd (Equusearch) even ask actually.

Monkeys!! Everyone ok today? Playing nicely? LOL..

So, Kalpoes wont let ES search the house...hmmm..anything else new?

Exchange rates: Aruban guilders/florins per US dollar - 1.79
 :D  Buy the Buy all  the people that had resorvations are still coming and the ships are still stopping!

Honestly I really didn't feel this would hurt tourism in aruba, but keep hearing that the aruba people are afraid of a backlash from all the media and the on-going case.
So I went to several travel on-line sites and see the rates (flights/hotels) have actually raised in prices.  I understand this is the LOW season, correct me if I'm wrong.  So if this is true, why would the cost go UP and not DOWN?

Exchange rates: Aruban guilders/florins per US dollar - 1.79
 :D  Buy the Buy all  the people that had resorvations are still coming and the ships are still stopping!

Monkeys!! Everyone ok today? Playing nicely? LOL..

So, Kalpoes wont let ES search the house...hmmm..anything else new?

Thanks jac!

Who WOULD let them in? Your kids are sitting in jail and you are supposed to let these folks from TX come search your house?? Cmon...get real. Who would really let them in. I certainly wouldn't!
It is a far stretch comparing them to the police on the island. I'm surprised they'd (Equusearch) even ask actually.

Hello!!!  Back from the doctor.  Doesn't look like much has happened, though.  Question:  What, if anything do we know about about Charles Croes now?

Hello!!!  Back from the doctor.  Doesn't look like much has happened, though.  Question:  What, if anything do we know about about Charles Croes now?

Honestly I really didn't feel this would hurt tourism in aruba, but keep hearing that the aruba people are afraid of a backlash from all the media and the on-going case.
So I went to several travel on-line sites and see the rates (flights/hotels) have actually raised in prices.  I understand this is the LOW season, correct me if I'm wrong.  So if this is true, why would the cost go UP and not DOWN?

Darn!  I thought I might be onto something!

Honestly I really didn't feel this would hurt tourism in aruba, but keep hearing that the aruba people are afraid of a backlash from all the media and the on-going case.
So I went to several travel on-line sites and see the rates (flights/hotels) have actually raised in prices.  I understand this is the LOW season, correct me if I'm wrong.  So if this is true, why would the cost go UP and not DOWN?

Does anyone know what happened with the friend of Arubagirl and what was seen?

My husband is starting to ger bored with the coverage. I hope his feeling isnt like alot of other people. He is reminded of the Chandra Levy case himself. I really hope they can come up with a resolution soon to this and she isnt missing too much longer. Its been more then a month now, and it doesnt seem any closer to being solved.

Boy, I would sure let them search in order to help clear my sons, that is, if there was any possibility of clearing them!

Does anyone know/remember if Natalee's cell phone was with her other stuff in the hotel room?  Most kids have their phone with them at all times.
IF she had her cell with her, is it possible that she sent out a "distress" signal to Beth?
Last week my son was out of town and he accidently hit the redial button while he was walking in the airport.  The last person he called was me.  I could hear a lot of background noise as he walked around.
What if NH hit the redial on her phone (on purpose) and BH was able to hear what was going on?  Maybe that's why they immediately called in Charles Croes, the cell phone expert?  Maybe it wasn't a ransom called she received but an SOS?
If she didn't have her cell with her, then there goes that theory.

Honestly?... because it's "free advertisement" and the prices go up. :wink:
Just remember the same people in the FOX's rating is the "target"... and due to some curious theories of marketing seems the "perfect target".  8)

I was just asked by a coworker who has watched exactly 5 minutes of coverage of this case.

Could Joran have "borrowed" Deepak's car?

I had no answer and said I had to consult with the brain trust and get back to them.

I was just asked by a coworker who has watched exactly 5 minutes of coverage of this case.

Could Joran have "borrowed" Deepak's car?

I had no answer and said I had to consult with the brain trust and get back to them.

 I recall Arubagirl saying she sent an email to her cousin thats in the police dept. and was going to talk to the friend and try to convince that person to talk to authorities.. it had something to do with seeing the Kalpoe brothers driving in a certain direction.. Dang..I cant remember the name off hand.. Ughhh.. anyone else know what I am talking about??

I was just asked by a coworker who has watched exactly 5 minutes of coverage of this case.

Could Joran have "borrowed" Deepak's car?

I had no answer and said I had to consult with the brain trust and get back to them.

Hi, a lurker here...
This has been bugging me, and I did ask some time back "How does Beth KNOW Natalee was at the VDS home?"
I have seen that she feels Natalee was at the home 2 or 3 am...
Ok, so how does she know? Maybe Natalee did call her mom after all, and Beth did not get the call to talk to her.
MAYBE,  Beth has her on voicemail or something at 3am, " hey mom, I am with this guy jvds and a little scared... he took me to his house or someplace... "
Maybe Natalee was able to get a call off from some phone she found along the way?

I don't know, what do you all think??? This has just bugged me for some time...

ok.. back to lurk and read....

Pine, thanks for making the statement about Equisearch because I think a lot of people have no idea what their group is all about. They are not the police, but they "aid" the police. They don't do home searches. They are highly trained (as are their animals) and have been very successful in their efforts. (despite the claims on some members on this board)
I live in TX and they are VERY well-respected!

Well we know she didn't have her cell, BUT could she have used JVDS phone and made such a call?  This could take a whole new turn of events IF such a thing took place.........any ideas out there?

So marketing is capitolizing on this? I can beleive it, don't agree with it tho'

aruba girl said a friend of hers saw deepaks car driving some city called montajne (sp)at 2 am , but then another poster came on and said if he was going home and wanted to avoid oranjested then it would make sense.  

Not sure of the direction of all these cities, just repeating that coversation.

Yes...we talked about that one. First...Deepak was very protective of his car. He would barely let Satish drive it. Secondly, it did not fit in the timing as well. But it could be an option.

Can someone translate..??

 ORANJESTAD (AAN): -- Corte den Prome Instancia lo sigui trata Diahuebs awor e caso contra e homber Lorenzo G. di 18 aña di edad, procedente di isla di St. Vincent, acusa di a abusa sexualmente y a maltrata un agente policial femenino na November 2003.

Lower court (court of first instance...uhh makes no sense to me) will continue this Thursday the case against Lorenzo G. of 18 yrs, originally from St. Vincent, accused of sexual abuse and assualt on a female police agent in November 2003. (yikes hitting a female officer what a shame..the bastard)


Corte a cuminza cu e caso delicado aki dia 20 di Augustus ultimo, pero a pospone pa (entre otro) duna Ministerio Publico oportunidad pa laga haci testnan adicional riba e muestranan di DNA cu a haya den e condon cu G. a usa riba su victima.

The court started this delicate case on last Aug. 20th, but postponed to give the Public Ministry time to do test on sample of DNA found in a condom that G. use on his victim. (uhh.. hmm. the safe sex rapist?!)

Por corda cu Huez a bisa esten cu el a dicidi pa pidi pa e testnan adicional aki pa kita tur duda den e asunto, sigur mirando cu e sospechoso a nenga desde prome momento y nunca no a duna declaracionnan contradictorio.

According to the Judge he said he (the suspect or the Judge?)  ask for the additional test to remove all doubt in this case, since the suspect denies in the very beginning and never gave any contradictory statements  (ok, something got lost in the translation here...)

Otro motibo pakico a pospone e caso na Augustus tabata cu Huez kier scucha e victima mes como testigo riba peticion repetido di Ministerio Publico pa haya un vista menos vago di Lorenzo G. y huzga mihor cua declaracion tin mas peso den e situacion di un contra un aki.

Another reason why the case was delayed in Aug. was that the Judge wanted to hear the victim as a witness on the repeated petition of the Public Ministry, to get another perspective less vague than Lorenzo G. and judge better which declaration has more weight in this situation where he said she said.

Biaha pasa, Ministerio Publico a haci e peticion pa laga e polis testigua mucho laat, despues cu ya caba e dama a sigui gran parti di e tratamiento sinta riba tribuna den Corte.

Last time, Public Ministry made a petition to let the police testify too late, after already the dame went thru a large portion of the treatment sitting on the tribunal court  (Say what?)

Huez a indica cu imposiblemente e por permiti un hende pa testigua e ora ey, mirando cu e chens cu su declaracionnan lo ta “limpi” lo tabata minimo, pasobra el a scucha tanto di e presentacion.

The judge indicated that it would be impossible to  permit a person to testify at that time, looking at the chance that his declarations would be 'clean' would be minimum, because he heard so much of the presentation.  (you know I gonna needs someone to translate my translation)


E violacion a sucede dia 22 di November 2003 rond di 1’or di madruga, caminda G. a ataca e polis na su apartamento na Savaneta, a pone cuchui na su garganta y a menaze cu morto.

The rape occured on Nov. 22, 2003, around 1am, where G. attacked a police at her apt. in Saveneta., pointing a knife at her neck and threathed her with death.

E acto a bay acompaña cu gran brutalidad, na unda e sospechoso a scop e agente bente abao, a choke cu su mannan hinca den “washandjes” y a horke cu un cabuya di nylon.

The Assault with with great brutality, where the suspect kicked the fallen agent, and chocked her will her hand was tied, and chocked her with a nylon cord.

Djey el a mara su mannan tras di su lomba cu e mes cabuya ey y a bise na Ingles: “I’m going to f..k you”, a pone un cushinchi riba su cabez y a bolbe menaze: “Don’t look or I’ll kill you”.

He then tied her hands behind her back, with the same rope and told her in English: Im going to f..k you", and he put a pillow on her head and menaced her again: "Don't look or I'll kill you"   (hmm, st. vincent, is that a us protectorate.. virgin islands?)

En total e homber a viola e muher cuatro biaha cu condon y e ultimo ey pa motibo cu e victima, den un intento pa descurashele, a convence cu e lo tin un malesa venerico.

Deepak must ride around with the Queen song "I'm in love with my car" blaring. (actually I am guilty of this as well...LOL)

ABSOLUT...YOU TOLD US TO LET YOU KNOW ABOUT THOSE $)*^(&^$

CGI ERRORS. STILL GETTING THEM!!!!! THANKS.

It was the coworkers opinion that, if joran was using the car he would text message that he was home at 3:15 as a (your car is ok) message.

See, I missed the very beginning of the interview with CC.  I did hear him say that he was brought into it because of a "call that came from one of our phones", but would not say who the call was to or from.  That in itself opens a whole new can of worms, a whole new set of questions.  Without knowing one thing about that call, all we have is speculation.  Someone had a rented phone and made a phone call is all we know, right?

OK...then the car would still be at the VDS home in the morning right? And Joran went to school early. Do we know what time Deepak went to work that day?

Didnt jorans father call someone and try to get a call from his house taken off the records? Thought i heard that lsat night..that a call was made or recieved on their house phone and he wanted it to be erased off phone records....may be wrong just thought i heard that...

He is a Friend of the VdS'S

He is a Friend of the VdS'S

He is a Friend of the VdS'S

I can think of one case that sticks out in my mind that Equisearch was not able to find......Rachel Cooke. (This is NOT a criticism of Equisearch, read on...) That made me very sad because they are so good, and this girl vanished without a trace while out for a run near her home....I think the police know that Rachel likely got within a few blocks of her home before whatever happened and she vanished, at least that's what I read-- she was SO close to home. I don't even remember this case getting national attention, I found out about a lot more compelling missing person cases when I did web searches during some of the most covered ones....Dru Sjodin...Chandra Levy...Laci Peterson...Maura Murray, and then I started finding out just how MANY missing people there ARE in the U.S. who vanished without a trace.

I seriously hope this does not happen in the Natalee case. I can't imagine not knowing where my daughter is for even a day much less indefintely..... :( Texas Equisearch is very commendable for trying to help in these cases.

Isn't necessary believe.
Let me ask... before this month who many hours of tropical islands are you saw in the last 2 years of prime time TV? :wink:

I haven't heard this one....very interesting!  I sure we had the exact info. on this ....GRETA??????

I hope y'all don't mind my putting in a couple of comments about Rachel Cooke...a few of you on here have received PMs from me concerning Equusearch as in regards to Rachel.  Her case is heartbreaking-she is from Georgetown, as am I.  I teach art and had her as a student.  Her mom was a co-teacher with me....now she teachs art at the high school.  Rachel, the authorities believe, was probably abducted a few hundred feet from her home.....they don't believe she made it inside from having finished long-distance running.  The searches by Tim Miller and other groups went on for several weeks....hundreds of people....for some reason I still can't fathom, it was never picked up by the national news.  Heartbreaking.  As you all can imagine, the toll on the family has been tremendous.  Don't feel as if I'm saying anything out of line, as all this is public knowledge.
I apologize for the terribly long post.  tcumom

That's what I thought.  He had to have some kid from the beach show him where they live, right?

Does anyone know what became of the friend of Arubagirl that had seen the car of the brothers?  Did he go to the police?  What did Aruba girl do with the information?

He was referred to as a friend of the VDS this morning on FOX.  Last night he said he did not know them before this incident.  He also said something about Joran asking him about a call made from a cell phone.  That whole interview was choppy.  It seemed like a lot of what he actually said was cut out.  I'm still not clear how he came to be in contact with BHT.

I didn't say I couldn't beleive it, in facr I said I CAN

He was referred to as a friend of the VDS this morning on FOX.  Last night he said he did not know them before this incident.  He also said something about Joran asking him about a call made from a cell phone.  That whole interview was choppy.  It seemed like a lot of what he actually said was cut out.  I'm still not clear how he came to be in contact with BHT.

I hope y'all don't mind my putting in a couple of comments about Rachel Cooke...a few of you on here have received PMs from me concerning Equusearch as in regards to Rachel.  Her case is heartbreaking-she is from Georgetown, as am I.  I teach art and had her as a student.  Her mom was a co-teacher with me....now she teachs art at the high school.  Rachel, the authorities believe, was probably abducted a few hundred feet from her home.....they don't believe she made it inside from having finished long-distance running.  The searches by Tim Miller and other groups went on for several weeks....hundreds of people....for some reason I still can't fathom, it was never picked up by the national news.  Heartbreaking.  As you all can imagine, the toll on the family has been tremendous.  Don't feel as if I'm saying anything out of line, as all this is public knowledge.
I apologize for the terribly long post.  tcumom

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet, you can find the video of Joran's "smirk" at foxnews.com.  Click on the redbar at the top where it says video.

For those of you with DirecTV...not sure if you're aware or not, but when there are breaking or ongoing news stories such as the Natalee Holloway case, Channel 102 (DirecTV New Mix) is a good source for seeing what each of the cable news channels are airing.  They show six mini-screens of Fox News, CNN, CNN Headline News, MSNBC, CNBC...and The Weather Channel.

Candygirl,

I feel like this won't hurt Aruban tourism...I feel like most people would still feel safe going there, and now there is the curiosity factor..people will want to go see the places they are seeing on tv..the natural bridge, the lighthouse....etc.

I mean, did you see those girls who were on the news being interviewed as they entered Carlos and Charlies? Knowing what happened to Natalee did not slow them down a bit....they were in full party mode. I've heard some local (to me) high school age kids talking and none of them are afraid to go to Aruba, they insist they would just use the buddy system and not hook up with "strange" boys. I'd still bet money they'd get down there, meet some fellow tourists in their hotel and get a false sense of security and probably still let their guards down more than they think they would.

The lesson here is......what, actually? I guess the lesson here is even a responsible  teen can have the INTENT to not place themselves in bad situations but still somehow make mistakes, or let their guard down for a second...trust the wrong person etc. I worry about when my baby daughter grows up, things will have changed more by that time, and I am already worrying NOW how I can keep her safe...but not letting her travel is not the answer. I even feel sure that Natalee knew to be careful etc....

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet, you can find the video of Joran's "smirk" at foxnews.com.  Click on the redbar at the top where it says video.

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet, you can find the video of Joran's "smirk" at foxnews.com.  Click on the redbar at the top where it says video.

Candygirl,

I feel like this won't hurt Aruban tourism...I feel like most people would still feel safe going there, and now there is the curiosity factor..people will want to go see the places they are seeing on tv..the natural bridge, the lighthouse....etc.

I mean, did you see those girls who were on the news being interviewed as they entered Carlos and Charlies? Knowing what happened to Natalee did not slow them down a bit....they were in full party mode. I've heard some local (to me) high school age kids talking and none of them are afraid to go to Aruba, they insist they would just use the buddy system and not hook up with "strange" boys. I'd still bet money they'd get down there, meet some fellow tourists in their hotel and get a false sense of security and probably still let their guards down more than they think they would.

The lesson here is......what, actually? I guess the lesson here is even a responsible  teen can have the INTENT to not place themselves in bad situations but still somehow make mistakes, or let their guard down for a second...trust the wrong person etc. I worry about when my baby daughter grows up, things will have changed more by that time, and I am already worrying NOW how I can keep her safe...but not letting her travel is not the answer. I even feel sure that Natalee knew to be careful etc....