Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/candleman2justice2007.jpg)

uno?? :?:

dos?

dos???

Did  SAN lose  the key to LOCK the cage  :roll:  :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol: you are quatro, no actually IBE is tres, Klaas is quatro and you are cinco OF  :lol:

My guess is that Joran confessed to a burial and he was there when he said it. He saw the big hole found by TES and he also knows about the landfill/rocks and most everything in this case. He probably feels that she was buried quickly because on land in Aruba possibly moved again and eventually moved out to sea. He may feel that they buried her quickly but panicked when they saw all the publicity and people searching for her body.

Did you check out cartoon titles ... :?
SeeeYaaaByeeee  all

NO I'm out of here... :lol:  :lol:

Is that why Jossy wanted the KPLD to see the videos?

Well OF I am right behind you..........I guess I need to say goodnight to everyone like the Walton's  :lol:

oh this is something funny that I think is pretty cute too http://www.aolvideoblog.com/2007/07/23/police-office-caught-dancing/

so goodnight to the following:

IBE, Ldstlou, OF, Klaas, San, Elaine, Spock, ******* and any lurking cootie people from the dark side  :lol:

Not sure..They are obviously extremely suspicious and no one can give proper explanation for them...I am very puzzled why they would not accept evidence/suspicious video from Jossy

Also I know for a fact that the ALE waited for all the media and lookyloos to leave when they were searching by the marriot or wherever that was in the sand..They continued that search in the dark and many locals think they found something there..That was after Jorans confession.

I really can't hang around...cuz I'm tired...been reading though and my mind is reeling...

IBE...know you are a night owl...hope someone is around to talk to ya....think of you though during the day.

Wreck, we had a reunion this past weekend too...that's why I'm still tired...

Goodnight, all.

dos :wink:

You sure have a slow conection tonite! :roll:

I'm a little "spent" myself!! (had a great time!) 8)

*******,

I messed up that quote....my response is within...guess I'd better get some sleep....maybe I'll remembe that artist's name. or Klaas or another will.

Still think it was weird...

CnC's long know for drugging lady tourist! Late nite. Sometimes their escort also! Gang Bang central after that! Everyone gets a piece of the action!

OT

ROCHESTER, Wash. -- A 39-year-old woman who police and family members have been searching for was found dead on Monday, and the victim's estranged husband turned himself into police later Monday, Thurston County Sheriff's deputies said.

Amy Mullins' body was found by family members and law enforcement personnel who were searching a field in the 20000 block of Carper Road S.W. in Rochester, which is near where Amy used to live with her husband, Steve Mullins.

Amy Mullins was last seen at 9:30 a.m. on Saturday. A neighbor found Mullins' car outside her house in the 9100 block of James Road with the driver's side door open. Mullins' keys were in the ignition, her dog was in the car and her purse was sitting on her seat. Even a warm cup of coffee was left behind.

Deputies say no cause of death has been determined.

The couple's relationship deteriorated to the point where Amy finally moved out with her daughter, deputies said.

Steve Mullins was questioned early Monday morning, then turned himself into police in Grays Harbor County Monday afternoon. He is expected to be returned to Thurston County and be arrested on investigation of murder.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/cartoonnatalee.jpg)

LOL!! I hear ya!! I think that cartoon was a bit strange..Also it will be nice when we can edit our own posts as I do alot of typos,bad spelling and errors in general..

Night!!

Nite monks! :?

still the "spookiest" cartoon! The "eyes" peering out of the Holiday Inn always intrigued me.

Whats your take on this cartoon Klaas?

I think the cartoon is depicting Natalee on the day she arrived in Aruba.  They arrived on Thursday.  So the cartoonist is saying 3 days until...so that would be Friday, Saturday, Sunday.  She would be kidnapped and murdered on Sunday.

The cartoon implies she was given a drug in her drink and she was burried in a shallow grave.

The cartoon was posted in the paper by the cartoonist I believe on June 4, 2005.

Actually, today was a very productive day.. I think the prayer request is working.

It just takes me a long time to read the pages and get caught up. I am doing two browser windows... one reading on page 25 and here.

Keep up the Good Works Monkeys!

Which paper?? This guy is in canada :shock:

Hold on, I'll get the link

http://cartoons.diberardo.com/recent-political-cartoon/girl-murdered.php

The article here says 6/7/05, but I thought it was earlier, like you...I said 6/5.........it's still is weird....security guards were in custody, etc.

http://cartoons.diberardo.com/recent-political-cartoon/girl-murdered.php

Note I was wrong about June 4th - it was published on June 7th

IBE - you need a new challenge!  I'll have to think of something for you.   :wink:

I remember seeing two versions of the same cartoon... one with someone looking from a hotel window down upon what is happening and the other without the person in the window. I remember there was a big discussion on who it was in the hotel window.

Behind the palm tree on the beach were 2 or three then some others in hoods like the Vis. Team.

Shango, Simian and this cartoon I will never forget. J4N!

What if, for conversation, when you all get up in the AM. I had a dream last night that I was thinking of this case and the telephone that was lost was the one, if there is a call from Natalee, was the telephone it was done on. Also another part of it was that it was years ago and I was given a tour of the ALA and Dompig was just coming on board. They were boasting about his qualifications and I said, what until you see what happens in about 20 years and see if you think the same thing.

Must stop eating before sleep :lol:  :lol:

Well since I found the article on Diberardo a nanno second before Klaas, I'm really going to sleep.

IBE, I am with you on the challenges.... :wink:

IBE - I don't think there were 2 versions, I just think we cropped and enhanced it so many times it made it seem like there was more than one.

Yes..stop eating before bed, LOL  :lol:

Interesting a Canadian who does Political Cartoons. I guess he followed the story and his cartoon was what he thought had happened based on what he read. Very intuitive of him as not much was reported but maybee he read about the Mattress and other thing that were reported before he made this cartoon.

I bet Klaas could doa good edit on that pic putting joran and paul and gang in windows ;)

Sue - I could but I won't :wink:

I found it interesting that the Mafiosa who once owned Aruba now live in Toronto.  Diberardo is also from Toronto, I believe.  I always wondered if there were "family" ties.

Ahhh...You are absolutely correct!! Would be interesting if he is from Toronto..

http://www.diberardo.com/about.html

About me:

Well, my name is Anthony DiBerardo. I am a 27 year old guy from Ancaster, Ontario, Canada.
A few years ago I graduated from the University of Guelph with an Honours Degree in Fine Art.
The year after, I worked at the school newspaper, as Art Director. Great time, great experience.
With the computer skills I learned there and in years past I started my own web development company, 4a.ca which later became 905media.
In the Fall of 2002 I took a trip to Bangkok, Thailand.
In the Summer of 2003 I took a trip to Krakow, Poland.

Today I'm back home in Canada, working on this and that.

I have been to the University of Guelph.  It is about 40 miles south of Toronto.

Notice how the footprints go to the hotel but don't go in. The top windows looks as if they have curtains in the windows until over the door. The second floor is what bothers me. The artist might have been in a hurry but I still see two windows with frowning eyes like being watched.

Notice it has a shallow grave and a drink and a drawing of someone near the drink.

yes, what was the date on this?

June 7, 2005

There's more about DiBerardo here:
http://www.cartoons.diberardo.com/about-cartoonist.php

It includes a picture of him.

http://www.905media.com/travel/index.html

His website where he logs all his travels

Considering the close ties to Aruba held by the Toronto Mafia members, I don't think it's outlandish to wonder if DeBerardo talked to some friends and family who had early information about Natalee's disappearance.

Klaas, :lol:  :lol: OK... I'll email you!!!  I keep reminding myself to go to CafePress and get my mug :lol:  :lol:  before the changes.

We won't have electricity on Wed from 9 to maybe 7 pm. Gads, I won't be able to use the computer and check in here... not addicted or anything like that  HA! :roll:

Could be as Aruba most definetly has those ties..He seems well traveled also and may know about the club scenes and some things that Aruba has been known for. Also he may have read the AM digital report on june 4th and other news releases in Aruba. He seems talented to me and Artists sometimes are very smart people with inuitive abilities.

Yes.  I just found it odd that a political cartoonist in Canada would create such a cartoon so early in the case.

that cartoon still freaks me out. I dont know what it means but It has always been in the back of my mind. I think it illustrates what we all know happened. And it shows that from day one people knew the truth, what happened. and it's been cover up ever since.
have a great day monkeys. I'm still here...JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!

 :idea:  :idea:  :idea:  :idea:  :idea:  :idea:
This may be off the wall, but what isn't regarding this case!!!
Poster at RU 'DILBART'---possibly Diberardo (I know...off the wall, lol)

thread at RU= (why) KLPD left Aruba
Dilbart Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:28 pm    

Recently I spoke to a KLPD officer who was on 'holiday' in the Netherlands now. He was going to return to Aruba by the end of August. He told that it would be his last 'tour' to the island.

He was not a member of the team that investigated the Holloway case, but mentioned that there was no new evidence and all the (extra) KLPD members were back in the Netherlands since last june and, as far as he knew, were not going to return to Aruba.

He has another appointment before he is going back to Aruba, I'll try to 'interrogate' some more, but although his mouth was wide open, he was quite silent  :wink:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dilbart Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:54 pm    

SGC = Sectie Georganiseerde Criminaliteit aka Organized Crime Unit  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Apparently the police have been inundated with calls (according to this RU thread), it is an interesting read.  MORE of Dilbart>>>
Dilbart Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:27 am    

HannieC wrote:
And who is that person who kept calling the police station?

Dilbart Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:27 am    
Starts with the letter L  :wink:  

HannieC wrote:
 BTW,dilbart. did officer P. called you already? I asked him to call you after I talked with him.

Dilbart wrote:
Yep, called today, he said that he will ask officer M. to call you tomorrow.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Good Morning.  

I'm working and lurking again.  Trying to get caught up......

AZ - I see no reason why this can't be mentioned now as well, back in the summer of 2005 a poster here who is no longer here, had some discussion with Getagrip? Both lived in Canada but that poster had only recently migrated from Aruba to Canada, due to an illness of her husband's. In any event, their son attended the ISA school with Joran and this mother stated Joran had indeed been a discipline problem both on the island and at ISA. Getagrip tried to get her to come forward but she was very afraid of reprisal.

I don't know how these people live with their conscience.

Good Morning Everyone !

This is my morning rally for our Peaches (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif) (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif) (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif)

Nonesuche wrote:

I remember the rapport with Getagrip and thought at the time that the cover-up must extend into the government.  I always thought that Joran was a "lackey" for a bigger group.  The Kalpoe's were just Joran's "wannabe" friends.  Joran even admitted that the Kalpoe's wern't the first call for transportation.  Someone else took notice of Natalee's group and decided to get Joran to "obtain" one.  I don't think Natalee was the intended victim in the beginning either.

Plus, too many people left the island in the first few days following Beth showing up. i.e.  The Bartender, Lorenzo etc.  

Joran and the Kalpoe's had the misfortune of being the last ones "seen" with Natalee.  They are left to "ride out the storm", being helped at every opportunity by higher powers.     JMHO

O/T I meant to mention Angie's hubby has surgery on his foot this morning, so let's all keep him in our prayers and poor hobbling Angie too with only one hand to help him with !! (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/castsmile.gif)

Question: Does anyone feel that Natalee was buried in the landfill and dealt with there? Seemed awful suspicious that when her father, Dave, began looking / organizing searches there, "mysterious" problems began - fire at the dump, moving debris over top of areas (specifically prepared to search), etc.. Just wondering...

After 2+ years -- I honestly don't have a strong feeling of how the "disposal" of the body took place. For some reason, I have never quite believed the "landfill" story. I think that they were led on a "snipe hunt" there while they REAL action took place elsewhere.  I  kind of think she was originally buried in a shallow grave and moved out (possibly to the ocean) on Monday night. However, I could still buy into several different scenarios.

Good Morning Monkeys!!

I got mail from Fat Bastard....and he stole my avatar!!! Well...at least he knows who he is!!!

The message they sent you was:

Quote from: ldstlou on July 23, 2007, 10:26:00 PM

You suck!!!
jmho...by the way!!!



[/i]

Welcome Buckshot.

Goodmorning Everyone.

A lot of people feel that Natalee was buried at the landfill.  Aruba did everything they could to interfere with what they were doing.  The sad part of it all was that the police did not lift a finger to help.  The family even had a problem getting a tractor to help them dig.  So if she was not buried there there was some sort of evidence there that they didn't want them to find.

Prayers coming from our home on the way!!

A burial at sea, IMO, would relinquish 100% control of her body, whereas other methods (cremation, incineration, etc) would ensure complete control of her body never being found. Connections could be made to carry out such a plan as well.

A burial in water would always leave the uncertainty of discovery down the road. There would always be a possibility down the road that her body could / would be discovered.

I had forgotten all about this!! It is spooky.

My personal opinion is that she is on land.  Most people believe she is in the water.  With the next search that Tim is doing we shall see if he finds her body.  This is a big task to say the least but this time Tim has the right equipment to do the search.

O/T - LINDSAY LOHAN REPORTEDLY ARRESTED FOR DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE AGAIN

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

This girl needs a dose of reality and sent to prison.  I hope it happens before she hurts someone.  She also needs serious rehab.

I have read the forums here at SM for a very long time. This is a very interesting case to me.  

I have visited Aruba many times. It was a nice place to vacation for me and my family. It is a shame that the island, as a whole, would allow its integrity to be destroyed by its inability / unwillingness to solve a crime of this magnitude.  I think the obvious can be (and has been) said that clues, in this type of crime, are to be gathered within the first few days.  They were not for some reason or another; consequently, the ordeal that has unfolded over the past 2+ years is a shame, especially for the family.

Morning monkeys.

I'm coming to you live from the lovely Atlanta airport, but I don't see Atlmetroguy anywhere in sight, LOL.

The flight doesn't leave for a couple of more hours, so I guess I'll kill some time here.  :D

BTgirl wrote:

Where ya goin?

It is a shame Buckshot, I agree, the powers that be in Aruba decided their tourism dollars were more important than Natalee and her family. I think all the clues were found, they were just covered up.

You know what really gets me about the statement mip6 e-mailed me? I was at a Cub Scout camp last night and we had the Canine Police come out and do a demonstration for us. These are very proud and capable men and women. I don't know how, these weenies in ALE can even say.."The family derailed us". Helllooo...where is your pride? How can they say, a handful of family and friends of Natalee's were able to derail a professional police investigation? I mean, we know who derailed the investigation, and it wasn't Natalee's family...but have some pride man...if you are going to put the blame on someone...come up with something a little better than her heart broken mother!!

yes

i agree

Someone sent me a link to an interesting blog.  This is a post about the O'Reilly BS, but the rest of the blog is pretty interesting as well.

http://incoldblogger.blogspot.com/2007/07/fox-news-we-report-you-believe.html

im with you

LAND

She is going to be in deep chit!  I guess we will go through the Paris jail watch thing again.   :roll:

ldstlou-

Well the very fact MIP6 took time to write you demonstrates how petty he really is.  He puts himself 'out there' as a supposed 'expert' so what does he expect? What are his credentials, having played bouncer in a bar once upon a time? We know he knows alcohol and plying that trade, that's about it.  :roll:

All he's done IMO is to make supporters wonder what Robin H is telling him in her private phone calls and if I were her husband, post reading what MIP6 has posted this week alone, I'd be getting an answer to that question.

How is this good for the case? How is this good for the very foundation Dave has established? It isn't and it can't be. It's pure foolishness.

I have thought this as well - perhaps clothing, etc.  The way ALE put up roadblocks for the landfill search, and then filled in what was dug up speaks volumes for me.  There was/is something there alright.  Too much protesting of the search for there not to be.

Good Morning Monkeys!

Hi Buckshot!  Welcome!

Headed to San Francisco.  :D

Did you wave as you cruised down I-75?  I'm just north of that really big church on the left (if you're SB), West Paces Ferry.  It's a nice neighborhood.  

Have a great trip!  See everything!

I had to leave from the Chattanooga airport this morning, so I flew over, LOL. Had to get up at 4:30 am and be at the airport by 6:15.  :(

Is that church the gorgeous one that's only been there a few years? I LOVE that church!!!!!

BTGirl wrote:

Well, Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair!!!!!!

Safe trip!

I agree BT ! Have a wonderful trip ! If you see something in the airport whirling like a mini tornado, that's probably metro making a flight  :lol:

TY for the good wishes guys. I'm hoping I can sleep on the flight out so I'll be able to do some sightseeing once I get there this afternoon. I'll probably be in bed by 9:00 California time, since that will be midnight according to my body.  :lol:

More from Fat Bastard...now he thinks he is head of Aruba's Homeland Security....now we KNOW not to go back!!! lol

The message they sent you was:

Quote from: ldstlou on Today at 07:52:12 AM

Quote from: MIP6 on Today at 05:36:44 AM

Quote from: ldstlou on July 23, 2007, 10:26:00 PM

You suck!!!
jmho...by the way!!!







Glad to see you have been watching us.
Fat Bastard being your favorite makes perfect sense..thats why you
 reminded me of him.
And do you have any idea how many times I have been told by someone
 from Aruba..."just wait until next week"?! I know who the family is, and
 there is nothing that will come out next week that will change my mind
 about what happened to Natalee..and who did it...but as I said in my
 post...BRING IT ON!!!
You all are making this about Beth and how she portrayed her daughter
 when she got to the island...any loving Mother would have done exactly
 the same as Beth did. She was Blessed with a lot of good family and
 friends who rushed to her side to help find Natalee...why does that offend
 you? I think it is a testament to both Natalee and her family.
 Personally, if it had been my son, I can tell you, I would not have been so
 nice!!! That's part of being a Mother. Whether you like or dislike, agree
 or disagree with how Beth handled the situation, in my mind, it has
 NOTHING to do with the 3 boys who were the last to be with Natalee and who
 your LE said...are guilty as hell!!
My take on all this? Aruba is scared shitless about what is coming out
 in Beth's book and this is simply an attempt to discredit her. You all
 can't stand that she has not been in the media lately for you all to
 bash, so you are now going to make her daughter out a drug addict...is
 that it? What you just don't get, is that we who support the effort to
 bring Natalee home and Boycott Aruba are doing this because we are
 parents, and good parents, and we now know what Aruba is really all about,
 and there is no way in hell!!! we would send our children there nor will
 we go ourselves!! We will also always discourage our friends and family
 from going....and do you know why? because of e-mails like the one you
 sent me, and because of the attitude by LE that Beth and Jug and Dave
 and Robin and family and friends faced when their daughter went
 missing. Aruba's powers that be...made a choice, their tourism dollars were
 more important that finding Natalee, sending her home with her family,
 and obtaining justice for her; and now they are facing the
 consequences.
You know....I am raising a 7 year old son. I teach him if you make a
 mistake, stand up and be responsible for that mistake and face the
 consequences. Thats all anyone ever asked of J2k. It's what we would have
 expected from our own sons.






I gotcha....problem is...if you are looking for terrorist...you need look no further than your own back yard!!
But ya know...if I were you...and my LE claimed a handful of friends and family from Alabama were able to derail a professional police investigation into Natalee's demise, I'd be watching out for myself too...so I take it you don't have any more confidence in your own law enforcement that we do huh?

Has customs seen all those sock monkeys you have stashed away?   :shock:

If she was buried in the landfill and destroyed (for lack of a better term), the ability to solve this crime with concrete evidence, to be presented in a court of law, becomed almost non-existent and makes this a tough case to solve.  One thing that can not be brought back is time.  

No matter how "slick" a criminal thinks he/she is, evidence is always left behind, in some capacity.  This case is no different.  Those in charge of securing evidence in this case, are nearly as guilty as the perpetrator(s) of the crime and should also be held accountable.

It does not make sense to me that Aruba would put its neck on the line for the handful of people involved. Protecting its tourism dollars would have been accomplished more efficiently through acknowledgement of a crime occurring, apologizing through medai sources, and asserting the required effort needed to bring those responsible to justice.  Aruba would have come out smelling like a rose.

The reason for protecting these particular individuals has never quite added up for me, no matter how influential they may be within their country.  Celebrities and politicians alike have been exposed, in the USA, for wrongdoing and life still continues.  Right is right, wrong is wrong.

They're in the checked luggage, and no one pays any attention to that stuff, LOL.

It sounds like you're *on assignment*, giving us up-to-the-minute updates.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: This is great ~ we'll all vicariously travel along with you.  I'm already having a wonderful time.  :D

ldstlou-

MIP6 is stalking you and that reference to Homeland Security is an implied threat. I think you should report him to your ISP/provider, send the email along with the headers to them immediately. What a joke he is, for crying out loud, go find a job MIP6 !

I'm behind in reading, but now reports say she had cocaine, too.  What a trainwreck.  :shock:  :shock:

I agree...just wish Aruba did.
I think they thought it would all go away. I mean a man was butchered, crucified and set on fire, LE says he died of an overdose...and there is no questions asked or outrage. I can see how they thought they could cover it all up and send Beth home packing. Just didn't work on us Americans!!

Yeah, but we need some breakfast before the flight.  :lol:

You kill me nonsie!!! that is hilarious!!!
And come on now...he IS apparently sending out his resume...or more likely..passing it out from his bar stool in between drinks!! lol

ldstlou- I bet his wife would thank us if he did go look for a job, actually it requires getting off the bar stool to find one too !!!  :lol:

BUCKSHOT wrote:

While the "accepted" way in the USA has become full disclosure, this is not the case in other countries.  Especially when they're not used to the "power" of mass media.  Also, these "particular individuals" are I suspect only the tip of the iceberg.

And, once a lie is uttered, more soon come until the truth is buried.

Okay, well we had a bagel with an egg and some cheese on it when we first got to the Atlanta airport.  :lol:

ldstlou- honestly on a serious note I would not respond back to him again, he's obviously a whack job which concerns me for you.

Buckshot- I think Oduber and his party are so used to controlling everything or pursuing their interest in controlling everything, that they would have never come clean with this investigation.

yep!!! boy now there's an effort!! lol

Have a great day all...hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go...unlike Fat Bastard, I DO have a job!! lol
See ya all tonight!!

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/7/24/



Online Pap translation:

still not owing to localiza arm using for throw on keep of police

oranjestad (aan): more informacion owing to enter relaciona cu the caso of bashamento of ball on saturday nightfall at aruba. daily paper owing to achieve know, cu till still the arm dangerous not owing to worde localiza. had witness cu owing to look at the arm.

police owing to haci buskeda at home of the sospechoso, y here owing to worde descubri among another the drugs cla for sell y also proyectil of arm, of the type “hollow point”, (conoci because; cop killer). the is one ball dangerous cu is happen door of bulletproof vest.

also they owing to achieve box of ball, balanza, y the plantacion big of marihuana. the two brother kock owing to worde deteni y they're encarcela. they detencion did take lugar fast cas at picaron, y police owing to saca they arm for so obliga the personanan of descend of the vehiculo.

also is for menciona cu of esnan first cu owing to worde deteni owing to calling keep for notifica cu is clapchi past owing to throw. but testigonan owing to look at arm of berdad. but hour cu past owing to worde aresta the self owing to bark past owing to calling keep end.

on monday, daily paper owing to as one interview cu boss of recherché oranjestad, esta inspector hodge. the is haci one suplica on esnan cu know that can have arm for reporta this of tipline of police, already cu have according informe enough arm is circula bao of comunidad, the is one situation dangerous.

owing to bay so far cu even owing to arrive of be bold throw on keep of police, respet owing to bay. one suplica strong for seguridad reporta without fright, police have to of aid come across,nos is haci maximo esfuerzo for soluciona casonan.

locual is the caso of the two rumannan is keto bay bao of investigacion deep do not exclui cu will can have more detencion at caminda, because arm notice cay for of cielo.

* * *


Online Pap translation:

man achieve dead, in sea in cercania
of cas of governor

oranjestad(aan): monday morning police owing to ricibi call, cu in sea at loyd g. smith boulevard, fast of office of abogadonan gomez & bikker, will have one curpa without life is drief in water. hour cu autoridadnan owing to arrive, of berdad was have one curpa is drief in water.

one of the agentenan policial owing to enter water y owing to saca the curpa for of water. past owing to check pols of the person y notice cu the not was bibo more.

alrededor of 11:13 of morning doctor van veen owing to constata dead of francisco ignacio rogers, mihor conoci because; “zico”, naci day 9 of december 1961, registra at the adres rooiweg 21.

zico was live on caya y always was march cu his ball of basket, is make kenshi. the lugar where cu past owing to wordo achieve, is where the was sleep all day.

despite cu all cos is indica cu zico owing to die hoga, autoridadnan owing to ask for make one autopsia, for achieve know assure cause of his dead. daily paper is extende words of condolencia at famianan of the fayecido.

I agree...I ignored the last one...he is obviously very lonely and looking for someone to chat with!!!

Will wait until we get him in the Monkey Cage!!! lol

Don't forget the "Rope-A-Dope"!!

Can someone log on to 24ORA and tell me if you see pictures? I think they might have bounced my IP for boosting pictures.

It's the only place I can't get pics. So I don't need to clear my cookies, my underwear drawer, the ice bucket that smells funky in the freezer or the lint catcher in the dyer.

Thanks and Good Morning!!!

Welcome Buckshot - very possible!

Yes, I see pictures

jeez some people get upset when you 'borrow' their pictures. :lol:

I'll see if anonymonkey works.  :lol:  :lol:

Question for those reading:

Greta led in coverage, in this case, on cable news - I tuned in every night for breaking news on the case (like the rest of the nation). She had panel after panel adding their respective 'two cents' on the case each and every night.  At some point, she stopped trying to help solve in solving the crime and began using the story to her advantage, in terms of ratings.  I am OK with a news anchor concerning themselves with ratings as it directly affects their paycheck.  But, what a drop-off and, furthermore, what a disappointment !!!

The turning point for me was two things: (1) Showing up at the Kalpoe house and Aruba seeking to talk to her, possible detention for questioning(if I am not mistaken), and (2) The infamous interview with Joran.  I do not buy that Joran was too irresistable and charming that she simply, all of a sudden, switched sides from Beth & company to Joran & company.  I do not buy Scientology explanations nor Dutch last name (heritage) type BS.  I would hope that it is the former rather than the latter.  That she could not safely enter Aruba without dealing with her snooping around, unauthorized, from previous visits.  Or is it "behind the scenes" money and influence within the media industry (being paid to steer public opinion).

I have read every opinion posted here. I am pretty objective.  Maybe the Holloway family is not completely above board and holds some 'secrets' Who knows?? They did the best they could, given the circumstances, especially after suspecting things were not above board, with regards to ALE.  Greta, I assume, is intelligent. What does she know that we do not, that would make her entertain even the slightest level of innonence for those involved, as portrayed by the media ??

Okay, we are good to go now!  When will you be reporting live from SF?  What story are you going to scoop for us?

The plane will be leaving at 11:15, then a flight of about 5 hrs, then the ride from the airport to Fisherman's Wharf, so it will be a while before any live reports. I hope I only have to report on sock monkey adventures in San Francisco, and not any live accounts of earthquakes.  :shock:  :lol:

Looks like Rudy Croes changed his mind and will keep his Job of Minister of Justice untill 2009.Re: solodipueblo.com/

Pearl@BFN posted this
Also, same site (24) has court results for the man, Anthony I. who was responsible for killing a 15 yr old outside of Carlos n Charlies in December ...... he got 4 years and has to pay the boy's mother 8890 guilders.  Said this was his first case of aggression so he got a mild sentence.  The defendant is going to appeal the sentence.

Comments read seemed appalled at the liight sentence and once person commented that Aruba becomes "paradise for criminals".

snip of original:

4 Aña pa homber cu a dal hoben mokete        
Monday, 09 July 2007  

Corte a dicta sentencia den e caso contra e homber Anthony Ignacio,  kende a haye envolvi den un problema di pelea banda di  Carlos & Charlies dia 3 di December ultimo y caminda el a dal un hoben un mokete te mande suela

Not sure what happened with Greta but she did change.

Sometimes I wonder if Greta isn't simply one of those people who enjoy taking what she would consider the contrary point of view, just because she can.

Buckshot-

We're glad you're here. I agree Greta is a mixed bag and I also think you have to have a certain measure of ego to even want a show on the cable news channels, plus she's got those above her who also have their agenda and motivations. It all goes into the mix within any given protracted story.

As for the family not being truthful, what on earth have they not been truthful about? So many lies have now been told and I am suspect some have now come from Robin H which there is a story to tell there as well. If they want to crucify Natalee and Beth over at BFN, well there is another side to this too, Beth is just too focused on the loss of her daughter to be 'entertained' by sharing family information which has nothing to do with this case.

The facts are:

- Natalee was never arrested nor ever in trouble at school and had an excellent attendance/academic/ behavioral record.

- She loved her parents and brother and extended family, and expressed that love freely to them.

- As do likely 99% of all US high school students, she did drink a measure of alcohol post her graduation at group celebration.

Beyond that Dave and Robin H both knew Natalee was going on this trip, they had every opportunity to speak their opinion and to stop it prior to her departure.

Enough of the chest beating by Robin H and MIP6. Every parent in the US is likely 'surprised' to discover their teens have had something alcoholic to drink. Welcome to our world Robin, your kids just aren't old enough to educate you on that point - yet.

She certainly did change.

No news on the case could have forced her to move forward with other stuff - I understand this aspect.

However, her stance also seemed to change.  I can not even fathom what could have caused this to happen. It seems fairly obvious that a crime was committed against Natalee.  Even if one doesn't want to assume rape or murder against a person until proven 100% beyond a reasonable doubt, the limited information given to the public seems to indicate death.  And if Natalee died, her body should be able to recovered so that her family can at least have closure and pay her the proper respect with a funeral service.  Where is her body? If disposed, that is a crime at the very minimum.

Does Greta not believe Natalee is dead ? If so, what credible grounds does she have for feeling that way.  Outlandish and unsubstantiated rumors ?? Would not suffice for me.

I am with you there, it sounds like he's been "into" your computer.  Oh by the way, he does have a job.  Its called, "I own Moombas"  You know, the one that burnt a few months ago. :roll:

My opinion of this is that maybe in the VERY beginning it consisted of a few favors being called in....After others became involved, it kind of snowballed and there was a point in time where in Aruba's opinion it was too late to turn back.  

Someone made the decision that they couldn't let this be solved.  Bad decision - now they are paying for it.  

I personally don't think it started out as a huge conspiracy to cover but it morphed into the big mess it is now.  Something came to light during the investigation early on that changed the dynamics.

nonsuche,

I do not necessarily believe that any secrets, if they exist, are more than background info.  There is just enough buzz out there to make a person wonder...

The facts still remain that ALE failed miserably in handling this case in a professional manner.

I was just throwing it out there for other opinions.

Welcome, Buckshot.  I have suspected that Tacopino's alliance with Fox as a commentator and then as JVDS's attorney in the NY case had something to do with Greta's turnaround,....not sure why and I'm sure others may be able to refute it....

I'm sorry, my last post is within the quote...damn...did the same last night...

I fixed it for you  :wink:

Thanks, saw that!

kimmy53,

Good point.

With all show / movies on television, it seems that from the criminal(s) standpoint that the less people involved, the more likely it is to be kept secret.  If more than a few are"in the know", it only works to the advantage of the truth coming out eventually.  People, generally, can not keep secrets.

Makes me wonder, though, that some of the deaths following Natalee's were associated with someone knowing too much much damaging information about a person or persons involved in the case.  

For example...

Paulus (to cremation operator): Hey, do me a favor - take care of this body... Next day, a columbian neck tie is administered to that particular person.  That person played their part in covering the crime and can no longer speak or come back to harm the cover-up as they no longer exist.

Made this example up to illustrate a point. However, could be possible.

We're fixin' to start boarding the plane, so I will catch you monkeys from SF.

See ya!

Safe trip....have fun.

Buckshot,

Your example has been discussed here....point is valid, imo.

About the "secrets" - I am sure there are "secrets" (I would rather call it information) that the family knows and because of the investigation, have kept them to themselves.  Do I think this is wrong?  NO - I think it is necessary.  There are those, however, that think they deserve to know all that is to be known and if someone refuses to tell, then the person is hiding something.

Presently in San Francisco:

56.3°Overcast
Wind: NW 9.0 mph | Humidity: 92% | Dew Point: 54 | Visibility: 10.0 mile | Barometer: 29.87

kimmy53,

well said !!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/thcoffeeanddonuts.gif)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/thCoffeewithme11-26-1.gif)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/th027-1.jpg)



And to BUCKSHOT


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Prayer%20Thanks%20Compliment/thT2Go2DPuppyChewAB2DWelcome.gif)


We have a BUCKEYE so may have to get you an avatar so we don't confuse the two of you.  Easy to confuse some of us, LOL!

.

Yay!  Have a great time!  Stay safe.

MIP6
Member
 
Joined:  Wed Nov 29th, 2006
Location:    
Posts:  31
Mana:  
  Posted: Tue Jul 24th, 2007 06:50 am   Quote     Reply  
 
Yes and as I read over there last night the whole lot, what 8 or 9, are just frothing at the mouth for new members so they can ban them with all kinds of neat bells and whistles. They truly are a pathetic lot of loser’s.

Remember if you do join you will be treated to all the fun & games of researching other posters and making cool bobble head figures of your favorite heartthrob poster. I can’t help it if they love me so much they dedicate their free time me.

Special the first week of the new cage, if you are really good at getting the facts out they will create a whole thread dedicated just to you.

Easy,

Thanks for that blog site...

Well, I must be SPECIAL!  RU has dedicated a whole thread before to trashing me.  Odd it was since I so seldom bother with them, too.

.

Guess they have a lot of spare time to dedicate, one way or the other.  Same here...seldom go there.

I intend to stay focused more on justice and less on blog wars for which I just don't have the time.

I truly hope we will have new posters with things to contribute rather than the distraction of a lot of in-fighting like in junior high.

There are many wonderful posters from the Front Page whom I hope will join us in here in the forum in our quest for justice for Natalee.

JMO

Yeah, that one has an interesting cast of characters posting together.

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/7/24/local/newsimages/nohayaarma.jpg

AINDA NO A LOCALIZA ARMA USA PA TIRA RIBA WARDA DI POLIS
 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Mas informacion a drenta relaciona cu e caso di bashamento di bala riba Diasabra atardi na Aruba. DIARIO a haya sa, cu te ainda e arma peligroso no a worde localiza. Tabatin testigo cu a wak e arma.

Polis a haci buskeda na cas di e sospechoso, y aki a worde descubri entre otro e droga cla pa bende y tambe proyectil di arma, di e tipo “hollow point”, (conoci como Cop Killer). E ta un bala peligroso cu ta pasa door di bulletproof vest.

Tambe nan a haya caha di bala, balanza, y e plantacion grandi di marihuana. E dos ruman Kock a worde deteni y nan ta encarcela. Nan detencion a tuma lugar dilanti cas na Picaron, y Polis a saca nan arma pa asina obliga e personanan di baha di e vehiculo.

Tambe ta pa menciona cu di esnan prome cu a worde deteni a yama warda pa notifica cu ta clapchi el a tira. Pero testigonan a wak arma di berdad. Pero ora cu el a worde aresta e mes a grita el a yama warda caba.

Riba Dialuna, DIARIO a tene un entrevista cu hefe di Recherché Oranjestad, esta Inspector Hodge. E ta haci un suplica riba esnan cu sa kende por tin arma pa reporta esaki di tipline di Polis, ya cu tin segun informe basta arma ta circula bao di comunidad, e ta un situacion peligroso.

A bay asina leu cu hasta a yega di tribi tira riba warda di polis, respet a bay. Un suplica fuerte pa seguridad reporta sin miedo, polis mester di ayudo ,nos ta haci maximo esfuerzo pa soluciona casonan.

Locual ta e caso di e dos rumannan ta keto bay bao di investigacion profundo no ta exclui cu lo por tin mas detencion na caminda, pasobra arma nota cay for di cielo.

Through translator:

still not owing to localiza arm using for throw on keep of police

oranjestad (aan): more informacion owing to enter relaciona cu the caso of bashamento of ball on saturday nightfall at aruba. daily paper owing to achieve know, cu till still the arm dangerous not owing to worde localiza. had witness cu owing to look at the arm. police owing to haci buskeda at home of the sospechoso, y here owing to worde descubri among another the drugs cla for sell y also proyectil of arm, of the type “hollow point”, (conoci because; cop killer). the is one ball dangerous cu is happen door of bulletproof vest. also they owing to achieve box of ball, balanza, y the plantacion big of marihuana. the two brother kock owing to worde deteni y they're encarcela. they detencion did take lugar fast cas at picaron, y police owing to saca they arm for so obliga the personanan of descend of the vehiculo. also is for menciona cu of esnan first cu owing to worde deteni owing to calling keep for notifica cu is clapchi past owing to throw. but testigonan owing to look at arm of berdad. but hour cu past owing to worde aresta the self owing to bark past owing to calling keep end. on monday, daily paper owing to as one interview cu boss of recherché oranjestad, esta inspector hodge. the is haci one suplica on esnan cu know that can have arm for reporta this of tipline of police, already cu have according informe enough arm is circula bao of comunidad, the is one situation dangerous. owing to bay so far cu even owing to arrive of be bold throw on keep of police, respet owing to bay. one suplica strong for seguridad reporta without fright, police have to of aid come across,nos is haci maximo esfuerzo for soluciona casonan. locual is the caso of the two rumannan is keto bay bao of investigacion deep do not exclui cu will can have more detencion at caminda, because arm notice cay for of cielo. come across


I think this is saying that these guys arrested in the drug bust (might have been yesterday) had armor piercing bullets.

There is a little difference between MIP and the average poster that follows this case.  He lives in Aruba, is in contact with part of Natalee’s family and does the ninny ninny boo boo until he gets Robin to publicly change her stance on important issues.  In essence he has made himself a direct part of the story.

Hi and morning Monkeys.Have a good time BT.i think the body may have been placed in more than one spot.i have always felt the wever creamated and the bones,etc were dropped at sea.I also feel some of the evidence is in the landfill.I think that it is strange for an island so dependant on American dollares to behave this way.Other islands have had plenty of rapes and murders of Americans.the difference is the crime is quickly solved,and the tourist keep coming back.Why is this so different?That is the real question.

We have all come across things that were supposedly secretive or little discussed during the past two years of this investigation but it always comes back to four people got into that car and only three were ever seen on the face of the earth again.

I think the most important components of this crime are right out there for all to see.  The rest is just background, details.  

I suspect Aruba's dirty little secret is that this game had been played on the tourist girls for some time but likely exacerbated with the advent and availability of the date rape drugs like GHB that erase memory so the victim is unable to press charges of any kind.  Was just a matter of time until something bad like this happened.

That is what I think Aruba is trying to hide and what has been alluded to many times by many different people.  They don't intend to prosecute them all or put all of them in jail so are trying to make this just go away.

If smearing the victim will help, that is what they will do.

.

I think it's obvious to anyone that looks at how this was handled to see that Andy of Mayberry could have did a better job.  (with Barney's help of course) lol
It's been documented that ALE had enough classes on investigation that they couldn't be "derailed" by family members showing up on the island.

I have yet to hear that they did an accurate timeline of Natalee's activities once she landed on the island.  That's the first thing that is done in any missing persons case.  Of course, if they did that, they could be challenged on entries.  Maybe that's why they didn't do it.  JMHO

Gee, I wonder who this crack researcher AnnaBlueBird could be!  Must be terrific to have been helping The Toad that early on!   :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

.

Van di compania na candela        
Tuesday, 24 July 2007  

Diamars marduga algo pasa di 2ór algun persona cu tawata pasa riba e caminda di Palm Beach a nota con un van blanco tawata na candela. Esaki tawata den e parking lot di e compania sextasy y union caribe. E vehiculo tawata tin vlamnan hopi feroz y despues di un rato brandweer a yega pa asina paga e candela. Click read more pa tur imagen y dentro di rato video.
 
(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/july2007/jul%2019%20-%20jul%2026/palmbeach%20front.jpg)

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/july2007/jul%2019%20-%20jul%2026/palmbeach2.jpg)

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/july2007/jul%2019%20-%20jul%2026/palmbeach5.jpg)


Through translator:

van of compania at candela
tuesday, 24 july 2007

tuesday marduga algo happen of 2ór some person cu tawata happen on the caminda of palm beach owing to notice con one van blanco tawata at candela. this tawata in the parking lot of the compania sextasy y union caribe. the vehiculo tawata have vlamnan much feroz y after of one rato brandweer owing to arrive for so pay the candela. click read more for all imagen y dentro of rato video. come across

 8)

Anna - lol, I thought you'ld enjoy that  :lol:

I'm confused (yet again).  I thought the other day when the BOR show was being discussed, that it was brought out that Van der Straaten was O'Reilly's source.  On his blog, Deetch is saying it was Rudy Croes?  Do we have absolute proof who the source was or is everyone just guessing?

Gee, I can't imagine. :wink:  :wink: You are too much, Anna.  8)  :D

Klaasm
You don't suppose that burning van is that hideous Earthquake van supposedly belonging to LVR with the naked women on it, do you?

.

Everyone is just guessing.

Dana Pretzer's interview with Jossy 7/23/07 - transcribed by Heli at RU:

Dana Pretzer Show July 23, 2007 TRANSCRIPT

Dana Pretzer Show
July 23, 2007

Transcribed from DVD recording

Dana:

.. Jossy Mansur will be here, the Managing Editor of Diario to talk about this nonsense that Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo Rivera, yeah they backtracked a little bit, but I noticed O'Reilly hasn't done a thing about it tonight. I haven't been able to see the e-mail segment of his program, where they say Natalee Holloway died of a cocaine overdose, so we're going to attack that.

.........

If you happened to catch an episode of Bill O'Reilly's, The Factor last week, I think it was last Thursday, he did a segment with Geraldo Rivera whwere they came forward with a claim that they had credible source information that Natalee Holloway had died from a drug overdose, cocaine in particular. I did a Daily Commentary on that today, talking about what an actual credible source is and what credible source information is.

I'm hearing from listeners that O'Reilly didn't comment on that. A lot of you are quite disappointed in it. I thought we'd go to Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario in Aruba tonight, to talk about this claim and other news that has come forward in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Hi Jossy

Jossy:

Hi Dana

Dana:

How are you this evening?

Jossy:

Pretty good, thank you.

Dana:

Now, you heard the claim also on The O'Reilly Factor the other evening. It's caused a whole bunch of controversy, we'll start with that. Can I get your comments please.

Jossy:

Well you know, it's very hard for me to accept that any credible source here in Aruba issued such a statement. It's contrary to anything that's within reason and for you to be able to say that this girl died from an overdose of cocaine, there must have been an autopsy, there must have been a body, there must have been a direct eyewitness, there must have been a direct confession by one of the suspects

Dana:

Exactly

Jossy:

I mean, to come out of the blue and say a credible source that you cannot prove. I think it's very foolish and opens the door to a lot of rumours and stories that are not pertinent to the case.

Dana:

It was just tabloid journalism as far as I'm concerned. You've been a journalist for a long time Jossy and I don't imagine you or your reporters would come forward with something like that

Jossy:

Absolutely not. We have to research our things totally because whatever you publish today can blow up in your face tomorrow if you don't have the evidence to back it or if you don't have a very reliable source but it has to be something within logic. You can't just say that someone died from an overdose if there wasn't any kind of a medical examination that took place afterwards. You have to research your facts very well before you can publish or go public with such statements.

Dana:

Now they're claiming their source is a law enforcement official, a higher up and you and I could probably pick who that law enforcement official is if this is actually true and I have no doubt they got some information and ran with it, however they never researched it.

Last time you were on the show we talked about this Amigoe article that came out with a whole bunch of different wild rumours, speculation at best. Do you think this was tied into that and they were just trying to find a US audience and fed O'Reilly this information?

Jossy:

I think there is something of truth in that because it seems to be a concerted effort by different factors that have come together to try to, let's put it this way, to try to liberate the island from the suspicions of being unsafe. Aruba is a safe island and we who live here know that.

We know it because there are certain places you won't go, certain things we won't do, like anywhere else in the world, but to come up with this concerted effort to try to whitewash something bad that happened, I think it's wrong, I think it doesn't favour the island at all in any sense whatsoever.

Dana:

Since last week or the last time you were on my program, I've received some questions from my listeners and if it's okay with you Jossy I'd like to ask you them

Jossy:

Sure

Dana:

You and I covered this last program and I think we've covered it before that, but in fact the e-mail starts here "one more time, is it only rumour that Lorenzo van Rijn is the illegitimate son of Paulus van der Sloot? Is this admitted by any of the admitted parties and is there any new evidence or anything at all to connect Lorenzo to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway?

Jossy:

You know, as far as we know, no, we haven't been able to make that kind of a link or connection whatsoever with regard to the case. I mean the rumours are more than rumours in Aruba that they are half brothers and they have the same appearance, they have the same height, same (inaudible), there are many reasons to believe that but it has not been confirmed by themselves, the two players themselves or anyone else in the family, no

Dana:

Has there been, since you've been on my program the last time, any updates from the investigative team?

Jossy:

No, we haven't heard anything about them, I mean I know most of them have gone back to Holland. There may be one or two of them left here, we're talking about the Dutch Forensic Team here

Dana:

Correct

Jossy:

The only thing that we know that they did was they visited the areas (inaudible) home, Kalpoe residence and they were for a very short while behind the lighthouse but that's all they did that we know of that was public. They don't speak to anyone. They (inaucible) they won't give any kind of statement. They came and they left, maybe there's one or two of them left on the island, at most.

Dana:

So they're keeping it quite close to the vest as far as what they've been doing.

Jossy:

Yes, I think they're doing the job the way they're used to doing it in Holland because in Holland they don't go into publicity and all of that and some cases they solve and some they don't.

Dana:

Jossy, you and I have both seen the videos, some have dubbed them "The Chicago Videos". In one particular video there's a large, clear plastic bag, it looks like it's at the side of a bridge and beneath that it looks like there's a pair of shoes. This video has been out for some time now . I'm wondering if there is a way that either you could help or maybe if you know if these investigators, if these forensic investigators have seen this video and analyzed it and are using it as an investigative aid?

Jossy:

There's no way for us to know because we tried to contact them to give them a copy of it because we made a copy of it specifically on the request of some family members to pass it on to them, but they're invisible, we don't even see them. How can we give a tape to someone we can't see.

Dana:

Right, exactly.

Now the Amigoe article, have there been any follow ups since then?

Jossy:

No, that got very quiet because of those outlandish statements that they made that they cannot back up with anything. This invention of an air ambulance that took her out of the island etc., etc. I mean, no, it's been very quiet on that front now and they know it was just an (inaudible) that they had, a kind of a theory that sustained from the beginning but it doesn't have any grounds to stand on

Dana:

I never saw it personally but I was told by some of my listeners that there was a link to that article on the aruban police website. Is there any truth to that?

Jossy:

No, that we have been able to determine? No.

Dana:

If you're just joining me, the Managing Editor of Diario is here, Jossy Mansur.

Let's get back Jossy to the broadcast and I'm not sure if you've seen an internet copy of it or not with Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo Rivera. Have you seen that?

Jossy:

I saw parts of it, yes.

Dana:

Alright, you did see parts of it. Is this re-hash of old speculation that has come out over the past two years that maybe these journalists decided to bring back and try and garner some interest, because that rumour as far as drugs and overdose and all that sort of stuff which was never orroborated has been heard before. What are your thoughts?

Jossy:

This has been around from the beginning. There's a theory out there that's been sustained on and off for that past two years and two months since the case (inaudible) since the girl disappeared but we've always considered it only a rumour and only (inaudible). There's absolutely no facts to back it up, no evidence, nada.

Dana:

One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.

Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:

No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months, I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case

Dana:

Have the authorities been vigilant when it comes to underage drinking and gambling or do we still see that as a problem in Aruba?

Jossy:

I see it as a problem in Aruba. I mean they do their best to control it, they're under manned, they're under staffed, they're under paid and I think in order to bring about an effective vigilance on that particular subject, I think they need the necessary manpower to do it.

I don't think it's being done yet, not with the emphasis as it should be

Dana:

The locals, the local population I'm sure never in their wildest dreams, would they ever have thought there would be so much media attention, some may say 'negative' media attention towards Aruba because of the lack of progress and the " incompetence " in this investigation.

The man on the street Jossy, the man that you sit and you talk to, how would you captulate[/b] their thoughts on what's going on now more than two years later?

Jossy:

From what we can gather, most of them are disappointed that the case has been going on for so long, no resolutions, no indications of a solution. You know with the coming of these Dutch Forensic people, and we haven't seen anything that effectively influences the thoughts of the local population and they're becoming quite impatient to it in the sense that they don't see any progress

Dana:

And that's what makes things difficult for sure. Just before I end up with you and again I thank you for coming on the program. You're always a breath of fresh air to come on here. We see so much misinformation and hear so much misinformation . It is disappointing that when a program with the ability to attract so much attention as O'Reilly, comes forward with this.

Do you feel, and I know I'm asking you to speculate here so, that there's going to be more of this negativity? Is there an evil side for lack of a better term, that's going to keep feeding North American media this crap?

Jossy:

I think that that's a possibility although I (inaudible) see it because in fact if you go back to the article that came out in the Amigoe, that's died out, no consequence to it, no one's interested in it, like Joran's book, no one's paying any attention to it, it's not being recommended anywhere so it's hard to say exactly what people might think about that.

Dana:

And again, it's difficult and it's maybe not a fair question for me to ask you but I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't done yet but I hope the North American media will at leat research before they report and if you were to give a piece of advice to a new reporter at your paper Jossy, what would that be when it comes to source information?

Jossy:

I would say stick to the facts, if you don't know the facts, don't write anything about it. Don't give misinformation because it complicates matters not only for the reader but for yourself also. It will blow back in your face sooner or later. I would advise him to stick to the truth and stuck to the facts, regardless.

Dana:

That's Reporter 101 is it not?

Jossy:

That's it.

Dana:

Jossy Mansur, thank you sir

Jossy:

Quite welcome.

No..looks like a white van to me.  I just thought it interresting because it was in the parking lot of Sextacy. :wink:

Thank you, Easy.  I was starting to think my little brain was playing tricks on me

Andy and Barney would have had this thing solved within 30 minutes!

All guesses - nobody besides O'Reilly knows for sure

Thanks, had not seen it yet.  Not enough coffee.

.

Hell, Otis could of solved it

It looks more like the "Crime Scene" van to me.

Aunt Bea could have solved it and baked an apple pie all at the same time!

... but on second thought ..... it might be too big for that one. (It would hold a lot of donuts for Jacobs though  :lol: )

Buckshot.  I believe the statement she gave was "she tends to believe Joran".  She has to my knowledge, never speculated that Natalee was not dead.  Where did you get that idea?

In todays ARUBATODAY:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/JorgePalmBeach.jpg)

http://www.arubatoday.com/newspaper/July/AT-24-7-07.pdf

I had just always connected in my mind the blue painted van with the Sextasy shop for some reason and wondered if it was often parked there or anything.  Just a passing thought as that is one ugly van and would make the world a prettier place if it were to burn.
JMO on the van.

They really do have a lot of fires and accidents in Aruba as well as crime.

.

Hum,  wonder if that was their "bang bus"

So Pasqueria is taking a $55K paycut to go to Palm Beach...interesting.

Anna, those aren't accidents

Klaas,

That's disgusting.  Maybe he can find a job for his unemployed buds as well.   :? Guess PB doesn't see this as any kind of tourism disaster despite the fact that the name Aruba has come to be associated globally with making people disappear.

.

:?: oes anyone know if Paul Seute is still on the police force?

He will be making more than $250,000 by the third year.  I will also assume they gave him other incentives to go along with this job.

I would like to know who recommended this POS for this job.  His name just didn't fall out of the sky and the Palm Beach community said he let's get Pasquera.  This guy has connections and there was no way he wasn't going to get this job. They just went through the motions to make it look good.

AZSunny,

Guess it may be back to the old back seat again!   :lol:

.

Katys,

I was thinking of all the car accidents.  One dangerous place to live.  Compared to Aruba, living near a comparable population size also with heavy tourist attraction, that is one wild place!  

.

Off to work and lurk. . . . .
.

AZSUNNY,

Four people left CnC, three people continued their lives the following day.  What is there for Greta to believe about Joran or his story? Her stance should simply be that she does not have enough concrete facts to make make an accurate assessment, one way or the other, in terms of blame or storyline, surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  Instead, it seems to me, she has put out to the viewing public that she sides with Joran's innocence, or lack of guilt.  If she is not siding with his innocence, or lack of guilt, what exactly is she implying ??

What information does Greta have that would cause her to take such a 180 degree turn in her opinion of assessing guilt.

People who insinuate themselves into a crime/crime story often end up the subject of the investigation.  Sometimes they end up victims.  Let's talk about who deserves that

Hi Peaches -- How are you feeling?

.... you mean people like Steve Croes?????

Buckshot,

I think Greta may have been assessing how to get her old job back at Court TV as much as she was assessing guilt.  Side with Joe T and the CTV crowd to insure a future should her Fox ratings continue to tank?

JMO.

.

Good point, Anna.

However, the public forum to which Greta was speaking should have more carefully been taken into consideration.

For those reading,

Given that time can not be turned back and evidence lacks, what solution do you see in bringing those responsible to justice - at this late stage in the game??

Do you think it will take nothing short of a person, somewhat involved, or "in the know" to simply spill the beans, allowing the dots to then be connected, working backwards??

Or will those involved, be brought to justice through lesser charges in an attempt to neutralize complete losses?

He looks like a terrorist to me.  Simple midwestern girl that I am.

is it you?!

Hey ... Natalee's amazing mother had it figured out very early on ... Beth had it figured out that those within the investigation were not incompetent ... that there had been an agenda established ... an agenda to protect Joran van der Sloot from implication.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 5, 2005

TWITTY: Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

<snipped>

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
October 21, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: They never—they never wanted to implicate these three young men.  They never wanted to implicate them from the beginning. And there is a list of reasons, you know, why we know that is true

Not bad.  A little feistier than yesterday!  That's always good.  

SC is a good example of someone who insinuated himself into the story and then got a tour of the pokey!  I was actually thinking about that drunk that emailed our St. Louis-lou!  

Looked like that crime scene van to me too!

Making one of the main players disappear and one of the weaker ones will crack.

I agree with the new sheriff, San.  If one disappears, one of those weinies left is bound to talk in order to avoid being the next one to disappear.  

Wouldn't have to be for very long......

just long enough......

If Tim does not find Natalee during this next search, I think it'll basically be done and over.  I don't see anyone being brought to Justice even if they do find her.
As for your 2nd paragraph, I thought I heard one of their spokesmen (shipper, perhaps) say once that they cannot prosecute with just a confession; there has to be physical proof.

I know at least three of the people behind that blog are very aware of this case... and they have had conversations with Red surrounding it.  Very interesting site...

Thanks Easy... another one to add to daily reading!

I've been a big Steve Huff fan for a long time.  I have read some Gregg Olsen books and several of the others who contribute.  They are all interesting writers.

Besides, In Cold Blog is a great name for a blog.

count them... TSA has been tossing luggage at an unusually high rate these days from what I understand... have a great trip!!

I agree... it is totally an implied threat, "I am watching you..."  that alone screams stalking!

Just a flyby here - noticed several commented about the van that burned. According to the article, it's white.

Karin Janssen - Prosecutor
Chicago Sun-Times
July 1, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Aruba's attorney general said Thursday she could prosecute a case in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway even if the Alabama teenager's body is not found.

Caren Janssen also said investigators have found no evidence to suggest that the 18-year-old Holloway, who disappeared May 30, is dead.

"There are no traces or facts to come to the conclusion that Natalee is no longer alive," Attorney General Caren Janssen told the Associated Press in a telephone interview.

"But that doesn't mean we can't prosecute without a body. It's difficult but not impossible."

Three young men remain in custody in Holloway's disappearance, but none has been charged.

Aruban officials have said previously a murder conviction is possible without a body, but the case requires strong evidence such as a confession, reliable statements and forensic evidence of wrongdoing. Aruba is a Dutch protectorate and as such operates under Dutch law.

<snipped>



Arlene Ellis-Schipper - Aruban Attorney
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
July 29, 2005

ROWLANDS: In your opinion, do they have to find more evidence, a body or at least physical evidence in order to continue to hold Joran Van Der Sloot or bring charges here or could they go forward with a no-body prosecution if they have a partial confession or other circumstantial evidence?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, it is possible to convict someone or prosecute someone when a body hasn't been found. That has been done before in the Netherlands and -- but you have to have strong evidence and of course I'm only a bystander. I don't know what they have in file, but they would have to have some forensic evidence and some strong declarations against the suspect.

Does anyone think evidence collected, performed test results, etc.. are accessible to new team, KLPD ?

Items to include: hair strands on duct tape, chocolate in Kalpoe car, greenish clothing material, bones found offshore (Venezuela), all statements by those interviewed, etc...

The reason I ask.. is if, and when, the case is "officially closed", will another organization (such as FBI) have the chance to thoroughly review the content of the case to make an independant assessment ?

Would be interesting to see what is in the file and what is missing from the file...

Could enough money be paid to someone to "tell all" about this case. Dompig, Karen Janssen (out of guilt for lack of 100% effort given to NH family, or roadblocks put in her way by ALE), etc... Who would be the best person to approach for this type of scenario ??

How about one of the Kalpoe brothers, or both, brought to USA and given some type of immunity to tell all about their knowledge and/or involvement without fear of prosecution.  ALE does not seem to be interested in prosecution, what recourse against the USA would Aruba have ? At least there would be connection of dots to all the unanswered questions along the way.

greta is an attorney who makes a living getting ratings... she is also an attorney that was a defense attorney...

she of course would be inclined to favor one guilty suspect... otherwise what hope does she have of ever gaining an interview with either of the other two...

I think Greta's change begins and ends with ratings...it's not about the person it's about the game...

Listen to Dana's last show where Clint Van Zandt was there discussing Greta's issue with covering the case.... was eye opening for me..

Fisherman Huts maybe?

And looking at the 4 figures by the palms trees always reminded me of an adult (paul) with 3 children (j2k)

Hello Karma....we are looking at that cartoon with the same eyes....I saw the house on the upper left and another figure on the upper right....under the hatch marks....when we first saw the cartoon....many months ago.  I can still see the house....the upper right corner appears to be more heavily marked and the other figure is not able to be seen.

Mere

Karin Janssen ... are you creating smokescreens?  What about the confession that encompassing the "official" media releases of June 10, 2005?

Janet
++++++++++++++++

Spokesperson for Rudy Croes
FOX NEWS
June 11, 2005

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.


Deputy Police Commissioner - Gerold Dompig
CBS NEWS
June 10, 2005

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.

I've never seen that cartoon before--do we know the source? I see it's dated '05.

I think that eventually, as tourism continues tanking and even though FOX did Natalee no favors, they damn sure didn't give Aruba any good publicity... in fact they really blackened the other eye.  I think as with anything once pain is felt by enough people someone will talk...

in the beginning when the arubans were posting on this forum they endless spoke about how aruba is so small and everyone knows everyone else's business.. there were no secrets.  I believe that and I believe eventually someone will get it and say to hell with jk2, I am telling what I know.

I would truly lilke to know what Art Wood and Van Zandt thinks happened through their initial investigations on the island.  At some point, people on the island clammed up with volunteering information as it became a giant media circus, wheras other topics took precedence over the fact finding mission(s) at hand. Other topics included crackhouse and runaway stories, protests, Beth apologies on national TV, etc.. Every reporter on television thought they could just walk up to an Aruban and be bombarded with credible, accurate information that would lead to a resolution.  Shirt and tie guy approaching someone like Boeti, "Hey, tell me what happened here buddy - I won't say a word." That got old real quick to the locals I am sure.

Parallel situation would be walking into Pakistan asking a local to tell you Osama's exact whereabouts. Not going to happen. Outsiders vs. Insiders.

:shock: Whitepeoplegivehead is our newest member?

OMG...my big post got stuck at the end of the previous page..again, lol. Happens all the time to meeee! Please look at it on pg. 10, thank you, lol.

http://cartoons.diberardo.com/recent-political-cartoon/girl-murdered.php


Cartoon information link above.

Mere

anyone can put a stupid nic there... they aren't automatically registered...

I agree--I've been to Aruba, and after this happened I was surprised at what a good job they did at hushing up all the details, given the size and the small-town feel of the island.

Everyone who's lived in a resonably small community knows what I'm talking about (my hometown has about a million people and I feel like everyone there knows everyone's business). I can't imagine how a secret could stay a secret on such a small island. People there must know what happened.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/24/closet.body.ap/index.html

Ms Marple... sound familiar?? At least in this instance the father did the right thing...

I just emailed this to Red.  Here's another article on it with more info.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpbuckley0724pnjul24,0,3673806.story

Mrs. Red - read the article link I just posted.  The father went to the son's attorney first, before the police.

Logic dictates that very early on diberardo had to have had some inside information pertaining to what was taking place within the investigation.

It was not until well after the detainment of Joran, Deepak and Satish that the media revealed the Marriot Beach.  In the suspects June 10, 2005 official suspect statements ... immediately following their detainment ... the Holiday Inn fabrication is still being declared.

Janet

++++++++++++++


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

At approximately 12.30 my dad and me had arrived at Bubali police station. I was interviewed as a witness. I cannot remember that in my statement I had said that I had been at Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. I might be possible that I stated that.


Deepak Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no.


Satish Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, we‘ve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. We‘ve had falsified documents. I mean, we‘ve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers‘ statements. We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

The name first caught my attention, because I've always thought Truman Capote to be an interesting character.  I did a lot of reading about his friendship with Harper Lee and just how much she contributed to that book, In Cold Blood.  Interesting story.....

If the KLPD has access to all that information it would have been documents that were falsified and evidence that was tampered with.  Because all the documents and evidence came from Aruba and we all know the telephone records aren't right and the evidence was tampered with (i.e., choc. in Deepak's car, arm found, belt, hair on duct tape).  But then again some of this information was sent to the Netherlands so the KLPD should have known these results.  It is the results that Aruba tampered with that is in question.

If the KLPD had actual access to the PV's they should have also had access to the videos that went along with them.  These videos are key.

Klaas - unfreaking real... but even with them going to the atty first they did turn him in and not dispose of the body, I guess there is something to be said for that (but not much).

It's obvious yet again that he got away with it before, so he did it again. I feel it will be the same with Joran...

What was the official cause of death for the dismembered and burned "Pitbull"? Sounds like a reoccuring story to avoid the use of the word homicide.

"Suicide"  :roll:

Actually, I'm not kidding. They said "Cocain Overdose."

Wasn't it claimed that Pitbull died of a massive dose of cocaine?

:::: raising hand::::

suicide.

So everyone on aruba dies of a massive overdose of cocaine...

still not a place to visit.

Boeti is having a campout?

The parallels in the Palm Beach case are really interesting.

O/T rant:

It causes me to consider the lack of respect our culture has for women and young girls. The attitude seems to be that women are trash, to be used and disposed of (whether they're being murdered or not, they're often discarded after men are finished with them...and there's always another willing one coming along and service a man who needs it).

I don't know who's to blame, and I'm certianly not blaming the victim of this horrible crime. I am blaming a society that doesn't value her for her mind or abilities, but only how she looks. I blame women in general, who don't respect themselves enough to demand men to treat them with the respect they deserve.

When society values women (and they value themselves based) only on the way they look and the sexual services they can provide, all of society tends to view them as pieces of meat to be consumed and then treated as garbage. I think many young women want to be sex objects because they falsely identify that as some sort of power. Then girls like Natalee and Amanda pay for it with their lives, because their predators don't see them as humans, only as pretty faces and bodies to be enjoyed. These predators don't want to hear these girls' opinions or get to know them as people; they don't care if they feel pain. It's absolutely disgusting, and I'm sick of it.

(This is coming from someone cute and pro-life, who just baked cookies for her husband, believe it or not). I have coined the term for what I am  "neo-fem."

/end rant

I like it Blue... and it's why I appluad all of the guys that post here... they obviously know better.
 

You should start a political thread on that one!

I know--this really gets me fired up. There's a great book about this called Hating Women by Shumley Boteach, if anyone's interested.

Hello to all you magical monkeys, today.

Men who hate women are mysoginists or something like that.

yes, my favorite word for BOR...

Really?  :roll:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

I wonder where MIP was on june 29th/30th?Is it true perpetrators like to insert themselves into a crime?
 :shock:

Well according to MIP I believe he said he lived a 1/2 mile away from the Sloots.

OH, phewwww..lol :lol:

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Ok gotta run, but I noticed commenting on a front page story that the amazon link actually shows beth's book...so maybe we will get to read it soon???

BBL... have a great day y'all...

Sun, I do truly think that women aren't really high on what BOR thinks is important.  He has kind of a chavisnistic (sp) attitude IMO.

Helloo my Smish (Karma)!

Joined: 23 Jul 2007

 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I would truly lilke to know what Art Wood and Van Zandt thinks happened through their initial investigations on the island. They were really on a roll in the beginning, picking up clues that may have gone unnoticed to the average joe.  At some point, people on the island clammed up with volunteering information as it became a giant media circus, wheras other topics took precedence over the fact finding mission(s) at hand. Other topics included crackhouse and runaway stories, protests, Beth apologies on national TV, etc.. Every reporter on television thought they could just walk up to an Aruban and be bombarded with credible, accurate information that would lead to a resolution. Shirt and tie guy approaching someone like Boeti, "Hey, tell me what happened here buddy - I won't say a word." That got old real quick to the locals I am sure.

Parallel situation would be walking into Pakistan asking a local to tell you Osama's exact whereabouts. Not going to happen. Outsiders vs. Insiders.

so true.


BUT, the Twitty's handed ALE the case on a silver platter, and ALE thru it to the dogs.

I meant to add, that if ALE & ARuba had not been so corrupt, and the perpetrators "Dutch royalty" their would have long ago been a resolution.  The mis-information campaign really got things rolling in the wrong direction as far as the general public goes.

Exactly.  Aruba created this situation.  They managed to make it clear to their people anyone who talks will be punished because they will be viewed as a traitor.  This is why I believe some of the Aruban posters changed their tune eventually.  They did not offer up the information like they did in the very beginning.  At one point someone got to them and that was when we had people like the Bondia's on the boards really starting to go full steam ahead with their disinformation campaign.

Sorry, gotta run!  BBL.

I do believe that Anita van der Sloot and Nadira Ramirez will have some issues to take up with the "top law enforcement officials" regarding the cocaine allegations pertaining to their sons.

Janet


Bill O'Reilly
The O'Reilly Factor
July 20, 2007

BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "Thursdays with Geraldo" segment tonight, "The Factor" has learned from sources we have to protect that Natalee Holloway, the 18-year-old Alabama woman who disappeared two years ago in Aruba, died from cardiac arrest brought on by an overdose of cocaine.

According to top law enforcement officials, Natalee ingested the cocaine with Jordan van der Sloot and one of the Kalpoe brothers


Anita van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
June 23, 2005

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: ... He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter.[/b] I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.


Nadira Ramirez
CNN
June 23, 2005

She described her family as a close and traditional Hindu group and said both sons are "good boys." Satish does not drink, she said, and while Deepak drinks occasionally, neither youth takes drugs

KarmaRoundUp,

and.... work from there as to how the dead body of a girl grew legs and hid itself around the island, going undetectable for over two years.

wonder who would be held accountable for that ?

Would it be wise if the family gave up focus on charges against the suspects in exchange for a truthful version, if that is even possible, of events as they unfolded that evening ?

Any possibility that Joran, Deepak, and Satish, with a few other friends had a little pool party at the VanderSloot residence that evening? Daddy Sloot would have been right there to help from the beginning...

Lorenzo - What credible source indicates articles of clothing, of Natalee, found at his residence? What is his status? We were able to find out hearing dates, detention extensions for J2K - are we able to find out those types of details on LVR as well ??

They have already "floated" the "Cocaine OD theory" via Bill O'Reiley. That ain't gonna appease us. They already "floated" the "runaway theory" via Julia Renfro and Dompig. That didn't appease us either.
NO ONE IS BUYING IT!!

Their goose is cooked (and they know and fear it).
Wait until Beth's book comes out....... we haven't BEGUN to grasp the onslaught of bad publicity coming. :wink:

.... and law enforcement and the world will give the suspects the benefit of the doubt that Natalee was actually deceased when she was disposed ??? What qualifications do Joran, Deepak and Satish possess which makes them qualified to make a determination that Natalee was deceased and ... not just passed out???

Aruba ... is digging themselves deeper and deeper if this is the outcome that has been fabricated.

Janet

Her book will most certainly be interesting... From what I saw her say on Tv, she kept extensive details, in the form of a journal, as to the strange ways of the aruban law enforcement personnel.

If the KLPD comes back with no findings, and basically, ends the investigation by calling it a cold case, will this affect its standing in the international community as a competent law enforcement agency?

Or does the problem strictly lie in Aruba with what information / evidence was actually given to the KLPD ?

Aruba: "Here you go KLPD, here are our files - Go get'em tiger" (as they hand them a manilla folder with a legal sized note pad with some three pages of scribbled notes by Dennis Jacobs)

Well, that is robots main theory! (I tend to agree)
I think the KLPD are playing it VERY close to the vest for that exact reason. They are crossing every "T" and dotting every "i".

Stupid question:

Was Shango or Simian's location able to be tracked through IP address?

Can anyone figure out what the #2 on each of the backpack straps mean?

Beth's book cover is out now.  The book can be pre-ordered:

Amazon link to her book:
http://tinyurl.com/3b8ald

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/LovingNatalee1.jpg)

I emailed the artist with questions, as I believe other monkeys did, too. No response. Info sent to Dave.

Shango was posting from Florida.  Simian was posting from Aruba.

Klaas knows better than anyone -- I believe she said "Florida."
Also, the evening Monkeys have hashed out the cartoon much more. The cartoon was published June 7th, 2005. I'm sure the artist was e-mailed -- but I don't think they got any answers from him.

24ora has a video up now of that van burning in the parking lot of the Sextacy shop in Aruba:

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/1480/8/

Hi my SK!
 :wink:

I speculate that the outcome to the Natalee Holloway case has been proven.  Otherwise ... Joran and "one of the Kalpoe" brothers would have already been detained.

I suspect that the "powers that be" will announce that they strongly suspect the circumstances encompassing the death of Natalee Holloway but the lack of evidence prevents apprehension or even questioning.  Remember ... the conditions of the suspects' September, 2005 release were lifted and ... Joran, Deepak and Satish were not required to be available for questioning.  In other words ... NOBODY WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!!!!

I contend that the Aruban's will not close the Natalee Holloway case and ... risk having to turn over the case file to ... Natalee's family ... the FBI.  The investigation will remain officially open but ... allowed to become a cold case.

++++++++++++++++++

Bill O'Reilly
The O'Reilly Factor
July 20, 2007

BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "Thursdays with Geraldo" segment tonight, "The Factor" has learned from sources we have to protect that Natalee Holloway, the 18-year-old Alabama woman who disappeared two years ago in Aruba, died from cardiac arrest brought on by an overdose of cocaine.

According to top law enforcement officials, Natalee ingested the cocaine with Jordan van der Sloot and one of the Kalpoe brothers

test

Thank you JustinsMama

Karma if you are wondering why no one if posting it is because the forum is down for most people.

I sure was wondering,thought I chashed everyone off. :roll:

 :lol:  :lol:

Just a quick post that I was not aware I was responding to or copying posts today that were private messages between posters. I agree completely those should not be posted, although I remain concerned when posters receive threats, it's the responsibility of moderators and administrators to handle that at various forums.

So I am glad that Klaas removed them, thank you Klaas !

Wearing the concerned down is the Aruba Strategy. That, and moving the complicit off the island.

Don't doubt for a minute that the complicit aren't being worn themselves. I have no doubt there's is a sentence they can't ever live out.

Believe it.

Got this today....could someone please explain to me why a screen capture feature is better that a copy and paste?
 :?:

MIP6
Full Member
Posts: 141  
Sent to: Nut44x4 on: Today at 05:02:25 AM  

Whats wrong don't like it when I upset the banana cart? Damn I love the screen cap feature, I use it at SM almost daily.

Because with a copy and paste, the person doing the copying can alter the text.  With a screen capture, the text cannot be altered unless it's done in something like photoshop or other program.

Edited to add:  MIP is not upsetting the banana cart.

My take would be that a screen capture would preserve the source and context of quotes in a way that just copying the text wouldn't be able to do.

Oh....I must be too honest, because I would not have even thought of editing someone else's post to suit me or to change what was said. I don't think I have screen capture on my old puter with WINME, lol...if I do, I have no clue how to use it.

Can you tell where people from the archives were posting from? For instance...*papito*.

NUT - I'm with you, I'd never alter anyones post.

Maybe  :wink:

Papito was being honest about his location

Odd poster. A cop named papito? Only one post...multiple times?

Not sure if this is the same "papito", but I believe this persons nickname is papito:

COMMENCIA,Edwin - police official and sometime spokesman for ALE

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/CommenciaPapito.jpg)

Same post 9 times:

papito

Joined: 26 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mr. Paul van der Sloot is da chief justice on da island (he is da boss of the judges) it's because of that, that the Chief Justice of Curacao has to come to the island to follow and make the choices in the case.
I agree that there is something fishy about the whole thing, but it's unfair how the world now look at Aruba.
We are very caring and loving people. In the States much worse things happen and after sometimes 10 /20 years they crack the case. Give the arubians a little bit of slack. Don't forget that we are surrounded by sea if they dumped (IF THEY DID) her body in the sea. The sharkes would have already eaten the body. And if the suspects shut up and don't talk than the case will close and they will go out free. And don't forget either that paul is a chief justice he knows the law like you guys know the songs they play on MTV. It's not easy to crack a chief justice.

A Police officer of The sunny happy Island of Aruba

I believe there is evidence that Natalee was murdered.

From day one, the charges for all, included homicide.  I don't believe for one minute that someone that stalks can be charged with murder.  Why not charge them with stalking?? Why not any charge...terrorism...burglary...anything??  No there is evidence of a murder.  The FBI saw the evidence so there is no denying it.  They may try to blame the FBI, but the charges are there..and they are there for a reason.

I do not believe that on a small island, the majority of ALE, we heard involved in this case, have found retirement or decided to leave the force.  I believe the Dutch investigators saw the same early stuff the FBI saw.  The cleanup has started, but like everything, it is proceeding on island time.

I hope Natalee finds justice and that the ones told to step down did not completely ruin the case.

PS  Hello BUCKSHOT.  Scared me there for a minute.  :wink:

O/T

Power Outages Darken Portion of Downtown San Francisco
Tuesday, July 24, 2007

 E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
SAN FRANCISCO —  Sporadic power failures hit the city Tuesday, affecting a broad swath of downtown, including the arena where the San Francisco Giants play.

Bay Area Rapid Transit trains were operating normally, though one downtown station was running on backup batteries, a BART spokesman said.

Pacific Gas & Electric officials did not immediately return calls on the on-and-off power failures.

Gregg Fishman, a spokesman for California's Independent System Operator, which manages the state's power grid, said there had been no reports of widespread failures outside San Francisco.

"There's nothing that we know of on our system that would affect San Francisco," Fishman said.

AT&T Park, home of the Giants, was also affected.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290632,00.html

Must be the curse of the sockmonkey  :lol:

I asked this question earlier, but didn't see a reply....
Does anyone know if Paul Seute is still on the police force?

Poor BT.  I hope they resolve the issue soon.  I hope they don't have a tremor while she is there!  I can see her running to save the sock monkeys!

I'm am not sure Nut.  I saw when you asked the question last night.

 :D :D  Unless you copy and paste change words the way you want them. Then do a screen shot.  You got to think like they do ,EVIL

I think Paulus was in fact a judge and they are hiding it now.  He never failed in the Netherlands.  This is all one big lie.

Wasn't there a cop named Papito Commencia?
 Forgive me, hello Monkeys!!

well, that's the understatement of the day!!!!! :o

I hope Natalee finds justice also Buckeye.

It seems to me that Aruba is deliberately starting trouble with the FBI because they know what the FBI witnessed and they also want to know what else the FBI has in their possession as far as evidence.

Ain't that something!  Didn't they have a small quake and tremors last week?  BT might have an exciting trip!  :shock:

Hey! I heard that!!!!! :P

Just got checked into the hotel. It's in the middle of a bunch of buildings, so I don't have a clue what's nearby. All I can see is the side of another building. I'm at Fisherman's Wharf, though, so I'm sure I'll find something to admire. Oh, and the power is on.

EASY - yeah, just checked for earthquakes but none in the area today SO FAR, lol  :lol:

BTGirl - I heard on the news they were blaming the outage on too many laptops being used..something about in the area of the Fisherman's Warf.  :wink:

San,

I think Aruba (Rudy Croes) allowed Paulus to act as a judge without his having the credentials from the Netherlands.  When this came to light, it may have been the reason he was not allowed to actually become one.    I wonder if according to their system this can possibly be legal as he was not even an attorney at the time.

While Rudy was letting his little buddy play judge, was he just like a probate judge or JP or did Paulus actually rule in criminal cases also?  Would this be a basis for having everything he ever ruled on thrown out or reversed and really mess up their little judicial nightmare they have going on down there?

Is this what they are so afraid of seeing the light of day?  A pretend judge appointed by Croes to make rulings in his favor?  Can they do this legally?  Far beyond my understanding of their system but I have always wondered how those decisions rendered by Paulus as a judge could possibly be legally binding.

.

Bingo! Criticize the FBI until they have to "speak out" to defend their own honor. In doing so they find out just what FBI DOES know. In other words -- a fishing expedition.

Then I guess all the other visitors will have to turn theirs off, cause mine is STAYIN' ON!!!!  :lol:  :lol:

Please use the link from the front page or the top of the page here....SM could use the support.

Mrs. Red, I just did exactly that.  I pre-ordered the book and ordered a couple other things by using the Amazon link at the top of the page.  :wink:

Going to go splore Fisherman's Wharf. I'll report back later on the state of the electricity and earthquakes in the area.  :lol:

Take pictures and your sweater, lol  :lol:

Is there an advantage to pre-ordering a book?  I've never done it before.

You get it faster.....maybe, lol  :lol:

Thanks Klaas!!!  I actually have a copy of the Natalee book, A Community of Love - which is such a sweet book... don't let the "reviews" written by Mark and Chuck tell you otherwise...

I need to order Beth's book now!

Ditto! The wharf will be absolutely frigid after sunset (even in July/August)!!! Several years back I went from 105 degrees in Mid August to 28 degrees in San Francisco the same day! (contracted worst cold of my life) :evil:

In the AMAZON link above, if you type in LOVING NATALEE you will go right to the book.

I preordered larry garrison's - that was the first time I had ever preordered a book...

it was very convenient and the book arrived as they were doing all the shows..

Others may very well have been aware, but I wasn't, that Papito's 9 identical posts were scattered in all the threads that probably existed at that time....just saw it for myself and I'm still perusing (sp?) through those archives.

Nice to be able to be in here again...read that some of us weren't able to get in...

BT, glad you made it to Fisherman's Wharf....Ghiradelli Square still there?...or is my memory fuzzy?

going right now Klaas... thanks!!

I love this train of thought!  From the archives:

Realistically for the ride what was in it for Deepak and Satish? They pick up Joran, take him to C and C’s and help kidnap a tourist. Then as they drove around, Deepak states that Joran was in the back kissing and fingering Natalee? Then they state that Joran told them to turn down a certain road and let them out by the Marriott. Now unless you are a little limp wristed, at 21 and 18 your testosterone levels have to go up a little by watching what was going on in the back seat. Yet they say they dropped Joran and Natalee off and went home. This then distances them from any further crime.
Then Joran states that after the episode in the back seat he did not have sex because he did not have a condom. Joran says that Natalee was the one that wanted sex. He can describe Natalee’s underwear and private parts of her body so I guess Natalee on the deserted dark beach took off her clothes and shined a flashlight on herself for Joran to look at her.
Natalee was not drunk, Natalee had been drinking all day, Natalee did this, Natalee wanted that, She asked me to do this, Natalee Natalee Natalee.
Here Joran does not know which way to turn so he tries to cover all bases. So Joran walks home and leaves Natalee alone and asleep on the beach and that distances him from any further crime.
Let’s go to Geoffrey von Cromvoirt. He was arrested on some of the same charges that Joran, Satish and Deepak were arrested. He was held for a week and released. His arrest was based upon a misunderstanding between teenagers caused by the chief inspector’s son, Michael Dompig. WHY was he released and why wasn’t Michael questioned or charged with presenting false evidence in a crime investigation?
Another male with the initials AB was held and questioned for 6 hours and released. His name or charges were never released. WHY? Andreas?
After this Gerald Dompig changes his theory from these three are as guilty as hell to Natalee died of a self induced drug overdose and drowned in the sea.
Guido Wever fled Aruba shortly after Natalee went missing, was arrested in Holland and charged with the same offenses. WHY?
He was held for almost a week, hires a top attorney and is declared innocent of any crimes against Natalee because he is Gay. WHY?
Koen’s father says that his son does not have to answer any more questions and moves off Aruba. Why? And How can He?
Rumors were someone from Pink Productions tried to get Natalee for some porn pictures. It would also appear Paulus hit on Natalee at the casino.
Since Natalee was slapped by both Joran and Geoffrey for refusing their advances, I believe that would eliminate Natalee as an easy pickup. Excuse me for putting it bluntly; but with her good looks I don’t think she would willingly offer herself to these six for a gang bang.
BUT WHY NATALEE? She was picked because she was unapproachable and it was revenge for refusing their advances.
At C and C’s, I believe Joran slipped Natalee a roofi taken from his mother’s prescription. Once Natalee started to feel the effects of the drug, which would have been close to 1:00am, they hustled her into Deepak’s car. While there she was further sedated with starting fluid in a handkerchief.
She was taken to the Sloots residence where a multitude took advantage of Natalee. I base the location on the phone call that was made with the monkey screaming in the background.
The blood on the mattress was probably Natalee’s; remember she was a virgin.
It did not have to be a lot but enough to prove she was there.
She died of hypoxia.
Where is she now? Gut feeling is cremation or the gold mines.
Minute evidence and suspicion points to she is buried on the Sloot’s property.
I don’t remember his name or the circumstances for his death but he was a cement worker. He finshed the concrete work and then was killed to shut him up. My guess is Van der Straaten had him eliminated.
Why were all suspects arrested? First to find out how much they were all involved and secondly to find and remove any evidence that would point back to them.
There is really nothing more I can add. Will the Dutch investigators find out what happened? They probably already know. Will the criminals be brought to justice, probably not? Will the case be closed. Officially June 2nd., 2007.
Will Natalee ever be recovered . Unfortunately NO!
Should we boycott Aruba and the Caribbean; yes forever.
And yes Dompig, the case will be solved just as soon as a patsy is found. But do not try to collect the reward. We might want your gonads on a charger.

Though it is illegal in the United States, Rohypnol is a legal pharmaceutical sleeping pill in 60 countries. Like all sedatives, it reduces anxiety, induces sleep and depresses the central nervous system. At low doses, Rohypnol produces intoxication, muscle relaxation, and sedative-hypnotic effects lasting 2 to 8 hours. Many users combine Rohypnol with alcohol. Combining sedatives with alcohol can slow breathing and heart rate. At higher doses, the body shuts down and breathing stops.
In South American countries it is used as a pre-op sedative.
Did Anita have this for sleeping pills.

Does Joran have easy access to starting fluid.
Starting fluid is a mixture of diethyl ether, volatile hydrocarbons(pentane/hexane) and some propane, dimethyl ether or butane. Often useful when starting direct injected diesel engines or lean burn spark engines running on alcohol fuel. Starting fluid works due to the low auto ignition temperature of diethyl ether, 360F (182C).
Warnings state “ DO NOT INHALE FUMES�

Comment by 10061906 | September 22, 2006, 4:18 pm

I don't have an amazon link on this page, but know where to find it on the front page.

Klaas, never mind....I see the link in your post, now... :roll:

I heard he did marriages and such.

Now the Amazon link is at the top of the page!!  It was a long banner before....forget already what it was for....

NJ -
it also hangs at the end of the banner... because I think it's easier to see that way...


SunFreak, that is an interesting theory.  

I unfortunately think that aruba is floating all the theories they can so then can close the case and think we will forget it... no one I ever talk to ... and I am not a shy person, talk to everybody!! - ever says anything to me (and these are ppl that do not know of SM) other than that is where they killed that girl... and refused to help I would never go to aruba.

and if arbua thinks that the BOR and Geraldo stuff did them any favors, they are sadly mistaken.... most families don't like go nearing prostitutes and drugs!

That Connecticut story is something else!

Klaas...I ordered Dave's book at our Amazon site and it arrived at least a week ahead of time.....have done the same thing for Beth's book...hope to be lucky again... :)

Yes, I just heard the news a bit ago and it's gotten more horrible as details are coming out.  They should fry those guys.

I need to turn on the news... I have followed a little bit of that story...

Easy ~ did you read where that older guy wore NIGHT VISION GOGGLES so he could what was inside the home.  That is so frightening.  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  A tragic story.

Fry in hot oil!  There seems to be a lot of sick people in this old world.  How do they live with themselves?

Yes, it's a horrible story.  I feel so bad for the survivor.  That family was tortured beyond belief.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290460,00.html

Anna, This would be the nighmare of all nightmares.  We will never find out unless someone of a higher power looks into this.

Anita would not be calling Paulus Judge if he was not in fact a judge.  Do wives normally call their failure hubbys Judge.  I believe he was a judge.  I also did find it strange that he was sworn in as an attorney later on.

Maybe In Aruba you become a Judge first, then a lawyer, then go to Law School, then high school.  No wonder Joran was so smart he was a Judge and we didn't even know it :roll:

Hi Monkeys,Great post Sun Freak,I agree.Waved at you earlier.Bye Monkeys,until Wed.

Wait a minute ~ you didn't ask permission to leave.  :wink:  :?  :wink:

Hi Tiger.  See you tomorrow.

Tiger - bye, are you going to be gone a full week?  Have a good time!

Hummm today is Tuesday right. :lol:

I know, I just assumed Tiger meant to say..see you next Wednesday, lol  :wink:

He's going with that group of youths...that's right.

Klaasend... I am going to start calling you quick draw Klaasend!!   :lol:  I just posted that...


over in the missing persons thread, I updated a story and bam! there was Klaasend with links and everything :shock:

thank you Klaas!

bye tiger.. good luck.

she is skerrrrrrrrrrrrry  :shock:


 :twisted:

i have night vision goggles but i use them for protection

 8)

i had some moose, deer and bear around here...


i spyed em  8)

 :wink:

Very sad story though.  Do you suspect the ex-boyfriend?  I do.

Yea who shut the lights off man.  I had to go take a nap!! I might not have much to say, but I still must have my monkey fix.  :lol:  :lol:

 8)   Rock On!!

Shouldn't that be the other way around

Snoopy!!!!!!  it's good to see you!  I miss your posts... they are such a slice of good old fashioned charm!

i dont hunt 8)

you have to prepared,

i have everything

in case bad guys come around

HINT- to all bad GUYS


dont come around here...at my house

you dont have a chance  8)

I am reading around in the archieves...
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1793&start=0

OK... how many actual relatives of Natalee's were on the trip?  Her brother, her cousins?

Seems odd to me that there would be an entire family on the island at that time.
Was this more baloney from those trying to spin that she wasn't harmed by the 3 suspects... you know the last three people to see her alive?  those people??

Hi mrs red, and thank you.  My life bis so busy multi-tasking right now.  Every time I try to pull out my old notes to review things I get side tracked.  Had forgotten all about the cartoon until someone posted it this morning.

I did too to be honest, dang but there has been so much information lost and found and misinformation ... I guess it's the game of wear them down..

The Twitty twins, cousins were on the trip..that's all.

thanks Klaas... now, do we know if it's true that one of them got into a fight with jvds?

I don't know if we have any valid resource for that.  May be rumor.  I do believe one of the MB males got into a fight with some local, possibly Joran.  Not positive on any of that.

any sightings of joran lately ???

I just wondered... none of that would change my mind.. just reading through all the spagetti they have thrown on the wall and the recycling of it

I hear they found a man in France with an unusually small brain, maybe Joran is in France  :lol:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290610,00.html

Report: Man with Almost No Brain Has Led Normal Life

I guess this is how the Arubans feel and some Dutch misogynists who defend the van der sloots.

No evidence, means innocence.

Missing rape kits foil justice
Rape kits routinely vanish, unfuriating victims and prosecutors alike. Even when evidence is intact, laws can keep suspects like William Harold Johnson walking free in our midst.
By Miles Moffeit and Susan Greene
Denver Post Staff Writers
Article Last Updated: 07/24/2007 12:18:14 PM MDT

"The only way I can describe it is that I felt drunk but I hadn't had enough to feel drunk." That's how Joanna remembers the night she suspects she was slipped a date-rape drug while drinking with other New Mexico Tech students. Further testing of material from her rape evidence kit might have shed light on what was in her system, but the hospital discarded it and the case was never prosecuted. (Post / Helen H. Richardson)

Socorro, N.M. - Bruised and shaking, Joanna watched the doctor prepare the instruments that could cull traces of a gang rape from her body.

At a party the night before, three fellow New Mexico Tech students had drugged her, overpowered her and raped her, she told the hospital staff.

Now, she was lying unclothed on a cold table splashed with bright light, allowing another set of prying hands - a female physician's - to probe her body.

"Just please get it over with," the 19-year- old recalls saying to herself last November.

In the age of DNA and other forensic advances, victims endure the invasive rape evidence exam, knowing that one plucked hair or fluid specimen alone can seal a case against
Trashing the Truth



      Joanna wouldn't be so lucky.

Only a week later, the Socorro County district attorney gave her a jolt: the hospital had thrown away biological evidence from her case, in violation of its own policy. Among the casualties: a urine specimen the doctor had characterized as containing a "date-rape drug," according to records.

Because of the lost evidence, the criminal charges against Depesh Patel, Ibrahim Hassan and Sandro Santos were dropped. None has responded to repeated interview requests from The Denver Post.

Today, eight months later, neither local authorities in the tiny town of 5,000 nor hospital officials have provided Joanna and her family a full explanation of how the evidence was destroyed - and by whom.

New Mexico statutes, like those in most states, do not require formal inquiries into the destruction of biological evidence in criminal cases. Nor do they require preservation of biological evidence at the outset of criminal investigations.

Joanna, whose full name is being withheld to protect her identity, said the evidence loss only compounds her personal anguish.

She has dropped out of school, and flashbacks still haunt
"For the hospital not to hang onto the rape kit, the blood and the urine samples from the victim was really, really hard to deal with," said Deputy District Attorney Stacey Ward. The hospital investigated the disposal and said it found no wrongdoing. (Post / Helen H. Richardson)
her, including several words spoken by the physician.

"'I know them,"' Joanna recalls the doctor saying before the exam, referring to her alleged attackers.

Rape evidence destruction, the most common evidence loss discovered by The Post, represents a hidden crucible for countless sex-assault victims in the U.S.

Behind 5,515 rape evidence kits destroyed or lost by authorities nationwide in the past decade are thousands of women like Joanna who endured the scraping of fingernails and the swabbing of their most private parts, only to be cheated of justice and, often, true healing.

And behind those evidence purges are thousands of offenders who escaped prosecution.

The full scope of
I THINK I VE BEEN TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF | Those were Joanna's words to her mother the morning after she says she was gang-raped by fellow students at a New Mexico college. She endured a rape exam, but the hospital threw the evidence kit away just days later, leaving the deputy district attorney no choice but to drop the case. (Helen Richardson | The Denver Post)
the lost specimens and their impacts may never be known because most state governments don't require that police, hospitals and other public agencies report the evidence they toss.

The problem flows from widespread ignorance, rape-crisis experts say. Ignorance about the kits' forensic value. Ignorance about rape trauma. Ignorance about the small spaces the kits consume. And ignorance about how DNA may render rape statutes of limitations obsolete.

"The destructions defy belief because (biological evidence) is the cleanest, least emotional, most unbiased and least politically fraught evidence there is," said Kim Tolhurst, a Washington, D.C., attorney.

Working as legal counsel for a coalition of victim advocacy groups, Tolhurst successfully pushed for a kit-preservation law in Iowa, ensuring they are kept for a decade. She had tape-measured her own shower to show lawmakers how hundreds of kits would easily fit in it.

While most of the rape evidence purges found by The Post were carried out by police agencies, untold numbers of kits also have been discarded by hospitals. Like law-enforcement agencies, medical facilities typically wield wide discretion to destroy samples. In many states, victims go through rape-kit exams but wait before approaching police - to work through their trauma - leaving the kits' fate up to the medical facilities.

Some hospitals in New York and Pennsylvania have disposed of kits as early as weeks to a month after the rape-kit exam is performed, foiling possible prosecutions, advocacy groups say.

In Joanna's case, the New Mexico hospital's procedures were to retain samples for seven days.

"If you destroy it, you not only destroy an option to prosecute but a sense of hope and justice," said Susan Lewis, spokeswoman for the National Sexual Violence Resource Center in Pennsylvania. "Generally, there's just no uniformity in the country for how hospitals deal with things like rape kits."

Such scenarios have played out along the West Coast, too.

"It's appalling to think of all the offenders we can't identify and who've gone free," said Terrence Newsome, a former analyst for the California governor's office who learned of thousands of rape-kit destructions in unsolved cases in the Golden State five years ago. These kits were never analyzed, thus never matched against offenders in the national FBI database.

Victims were outraged, and California later passed one of the few laws in the country requiring kits to be preserved.

But most destructions are carried out in the shadows, without accountability.

Drinks with acquaintances

Joanna's story, like so many rape cases, starts over drinks with someone she knew.

As recounted in police reports, the New Mexico Tech student took up Patel's offer of music and beers at Santos' apartment. Hassan was there. Santos arrived later in the evening.

"It seemed innocent at the time, but I remember they kept moving the bottles closer to me," she recalls.

Though she's uncertain when it kicked in, she felt an unusual buzz, she told police. She remembers them playing with her jacket zipper, telling her "it wasn't Alaska" and that she should remove her coat. She remembers consuming several drinks, at one point leaving the apartment to get margarita mix.

Most of all, she remembers making decisions that evening she didn't want to make.

"The only way I can describe it is that I felt drunk but I hadn't had enough to feel drunk."

The evening blurred into numbness, dizziness, then blackouts. She awoke the next morning in her own apartment with bruises and a swollen lip, all documented on hospital reports. She also had memories of sex acts with the three men.

She rushed to the shower, letting the hot water flow over her for an hour.

"I think I've been taken advantage of," Joanna told her mother.

"We have to go to the police," her mom said.

Joanna, who began to believe she had been slipped a drug, was nervous about pursuing charges. "I knew there was so much blame put on the victim when this happens."

But she decided she needed medical attention.

At Socorro General Hospital, she agreed to a rape-evidence exam. The doctor, Susan Lewark, stepped into the exam room. Joanna told her the story, told her the names of her alleged attackers.

The doctor paused. She told Joanna she knew the men from the campus clinic, where she worked part time, Joanna recalls.

She then asked a couple of questions: "Do you still want me to do the exam? Do you want someone else to do it?"

Joanna didn't grasp the possible conflict. Didn't practically every one in Socorro know each other?

"If you're OK with it, I am," Joanna recalls saying.

Later that morning, after learning of Joanna's report, New Mexico Tech campus police officer Billy Romero stopped the three men as they were driving from the apartment complex's parking lot. He told the students he was investigating a rape case.

Patel, police reports show, had an immediate answer: He claimed he had been in Albuquerque the previous night. Romero arrested all of them.

Back at the hospital, Lewark found a barbiturate in Joanna's urine sample, according to hospital records.

In a conversation with Joanna and her mother, Lewark referred to it as a date- rape drug, Joanna said.

"That explained a lot," her mom said.

Lewark told police the same thing, according to Romero's report.

Meanwhile, the three suspects conceded that they had been with Joanna, contradicting Patel's initial account of his whereabouts that night. But they stressed that the sex was consensual. They said they even used their cellphones during the sex encounters to record her, asking whether she was having sex of her own free will.

They denied slipping her drugs.

After "three to five days," according to Deputy District Attorney Stacey Ward, Romero phoned the hospital from her office to make sure the staff had saved the rape specimens for further testing.

The hospital response: The small samples no longer existed. Ultimately, Ward said, they blamed the problem on lack of storage space.

Ward was astonished, she said. Without the specimens, more advanced testing to identify the drug and other substances in Joanna's system wouldn't be possible. "Their main problem was that they failed to recognize this was evidence," Ward said.

In interviews with police, Lewark also backed off her assertion that the drug could be a date-rape drug, Ward and Romero said.

Barbiturates, indeed, are not common date-rape drugs, but rape-crisis experts say a variety of intoxicants are used to take advantage of women.

As a result of the evidence destruction, Ward felt the case was just too murky to pursue.

It was dead-ended.

"For the hospital not to hang onto the rape kit, the blood and the urine samples from the victim was really, really hard to deal with," Ward said. "I was excited about having a provable case. The problem is that we had a victim voluntarily drinking large amounts of alcohol with these guys, and at one point, leaving and coming back. We needed more evidence.

"As it is, a cloud hangs over everything."

Joanna, meanwhile, has never been told the full story, including who threw out her evidence. She wonders, was it simply an accident? Or was there more to it?

The last person she knew to have custody of the evidence was the doctor, Lewark.

Officer Romero said Lewark also told him that she knew the three suspects. The doctor, he said, works with international students at the college. At least two of the accused are international students. At one point, Romero said, Lewark told him the three "were real nice guys."

Lewark declined interview requests and would not answer written questions from The Post.

In interviews in January, Ward said she found Lewark's reversal in characterizing the substance found in Joanna's urine as a date-rape drug unusual. Last week, however, she said had become convinced that the evidence destruction was simply a bureaucratic bungle.

Ward said the hospital told her that the person who disposed of the evidence was a technician.

Last week, Socorro hospital administrator Bo Beames released a statement to The Post. He declined to detail what happened or say who tossed the evidence.

He stressed that the hospital had reviewed the case carefully and found no wrongdoing. He also said that in a small town he would not be surprised if a caregiver at the hospital knew a suspect in a criminal case.

"We are confident that our employees involved acted ethically and honored their medical duty."

Evidence-handling practices are being revamped, he said. "We also know from recent events that we can improve - and are committed to improving - the cross-training and communication between law enforcement and our caregivers in matters of sample collections to be used as evidence."

That's little solace to Joanna's father. He said he has tried repeatedly through meetings with hospital officials and law-enforcement authorities to find more answers.

"As a one-man task force, I've only hit walls," he said. "We deserve to know more."

Joanna said she's beginning to heal. But she is no longer attending classes, no longer pursuing her dream of being a veterinarian.

She is taking a year off from school to think about her future. During the break, she's joined AmeriCorps, helping teach art to the disabled.

And she's also working as a rape-crisis advocate in Albuquerque.

She recently answered a hotline call from a rape victim who had a familiar story: Her case evidence had been destroyed.

"Before she got off the phone, she told me, 'You've helped me so much,"' Joanna said. "At least something good has come out of this."

Now, I hadn't heard of a fight between the Twitty cousin & Joran, just that they played in that poker tourny together.  Isn't that how Beth was able to ID Joran so quickly?

O/T

Police: Blood Of 5 Women Found In Mendenhall's Truck

http://tinyurl.com/2gycwr

Some days this is just overwhelming.

.

Thought this was interesting,hope I do this right.


 
canadaeh



Joined: 29 Jun 2005

 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: The other side...  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
From http://www.ad.nl/artikelen/Nieuws/1119938676169.html

Excuse any typos and the translation won't be word for word.

Quote:

Parents convinced of innocense of the suspects in the Natalee case
"Joran won't be released any time soon"

By Maaike Ruepert

For the first time the parents of Joran ver der Sloot are talking to the press. Their son is suspected of the murder of the 18 year old American Natalee Holloway on Aruba.

They're uneasy. Understandable knowing the attention on the family by the American media. In their eyes Joran, who's already been behind bars for 3 weeks, already found guilty. Last week the police also arrested the dad Paul van der Sloot, judge in training. He also supposedly was involved with the disappearance of Natalee. "This is an absurd situation", the parents say.

Antiva van der Sloot (4 sits with red [?] eyes at the wooden dinner table in their house. She's only been able to visit her son twice since he's been in jail. During the talk she's making notes in her diary. "I keep track of everything. For the best seller I'll write when all of this is over", she says jokingly. "Sometimes I'm cynical to keep myself standing in all this craziness".

Paul (53) sits next to his wife. He answers the questions carefully. A week ago the police came - accompanied by a couple of camera crews - to arrest him. Three days he was kept in a police cell - 'an intense and profound experience' - until the judge decided there was no reason to keep him any longer. According to the justice he had given testimonies that did not match with the fact checks. "But after my arrest they only interviewed me once", says Van der Sloot. "At that time I reconfirmed what I said previously at the police station."

The media assumed that Van Der Sloot was arrested because he encouraged his son not to tell the truth about the night that NH disappeared. "I however told him to tell everything", says Van der Sloot.

Initially Jorans dad didn't know that his son was out on the night of 29th to 30th of May, when Natalee disappeared. "I picked him up at McDonalds at 11 and didn't know better than that he went to sleep." Not until Beth Holloway and several police officers arrived at the gate of his house, did he learn that his son also went to Carlos 'n Charles together with Natalee, he says.

To the police Joran initially told that he and his vriends Satisch and Deepak K, who're also in custody, that they had dropped off the girl at her hotel. Paul van der Sloot: "I believed that, until he changed his statement." All of a sudden Joran stated that he had left the girl alone on the beach at the Marriot hotel - by her request.

After he walked home, several kilometers away. Anite: "I was very angry when I heared that. But I think it was a panic reaction. Maybe he spun the truth - I don't want to call it a lie - because he wanted to get out of this. He has said from the start that he would never do anything to a girl. He respects girls."


Why he then left the girl alone on the beach, the parents don't know. "I really would love to talk to him about the case, but we're not allowed", says Anita. " But I know one thing for sure: that there adults have been involved." [?]

It doesn't look like Joran will be released soon. The police has so little evidence that the only hope is a confession. Joran is being iterrogated daily for several hours. Anita: "Sometimes he's in a dark, col room for hours, where he can only hear sounds. Another time he was surrounded by photos of Natalee. Your dad is also a crimininal, they told him. "Mam, theycall me a murderer, psychopat, rapist, he told me."


But according to Anita and Paul ver der Sloot their son is innocent. Paul hopes to visits his son soon, "I will tell him I love hime. That's what I'll tell him."

Metro/State l
By DANIEL JACKSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD

One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway’s friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates who went to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

“There was almost a fight between my friend and him,” said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. “I had to break them up. That’s when I got a good look at them.”

Van Der Sloot, the son of a Dutch justice official studying at the Aruba International School, and two Surinamese brothers identified by police as Satish and Deepak Kaploe, were arrested Thursday morning, more than a week after Holloway disappeared. The last known people to have seen Holloway, the suspects told police they gave her a ride to her hotel in the early morning hours of May 30, the night she vanished, and never saw her again.

Reynolds said he saw the suspects hanging out at the Holiday Inn where the Mountain Brook High School graduates stayed in Oranjestad. When Holloway went missing, Reynolds said they were the first people he considered as potential suspects.

“That was the first people who came to mind,” said Reynolds, who said Holloway is one of his best friends.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/court-tvs-haunting-evidence-the-natalee-holloway-investigation/

Hello all,

Has been awhile since I posted. Since the crash in 05.

Thanks to Klaas & Red for getting me back on board.

Even though I haven't been posting I review SM every evening. As it is the only place to find the truth without all the HYPE.

geez, I had read they suspected him in several cases

Hi sleddogs and welcome.

Welcome back Sleddogs!

Howdy sleddogs!!

BBL

Klaas sometime when you have a minute could you post the picture of my cute little self.  I lost me.  I only have the one with my 4th of july stuff on.
TIA  The little doggy.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Not my real cute little self ya know. 8)

How's that, lol  :lol:

Hi Monkeys...

Who unplugged the servers today?  Kinda early in the day for maintenance wanting  to plug the vacuum.

I see BT and the sockmonkeys are out exploring tonight  :lol:  :lol:

Frank,

Thank you.  Less than half of sexual assaults are even reported in this country.  We still have a lot of work to do in this regard.  This is yet another reason victims become so discouraged!

Instead of progress, this all seems like regressing to me.

.

Hi sleddog
welcome back...

I wish that article had stated when & where things occured...

"i had to get home because i had school the next day"


its a GIANT LIE

HUGE

MEGA


but first i need to check porn, and soccer scores and get something to eat




BULL BULL BULL


the TRANSLATION


i had to help some up with an ALIBI and a plan to get rid of a dead body

 :x

Dang woman!!!  How do you do that!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Thank You!!  Now I won't be in trouble with Lala's.  :roll:  :shock:  8)  :D

It's magic  :lol:

Hi Everybody,
I read everyday, but never post.
I remember seeing Dave on Local TV saying that it happpened the night before Natalee went missing.  GVC was also involved.  Dave said this the day that GVC was arrested.  He said that GVC had been attempting to dance with Natalee.  Dave said that they had known about GVC all along.

Na you're just amazing that's it.  :smt023

Magnolia!!  Great to see you!

WELCOME, SLEDDOGS
 :D



MAGNOLIA,

How are you!  Good to see you posting.  Hope all is well with you and you will be able to join us more often.

.

Hi Magnolia!!  Good to see ya back.

Thanks!  I am here everyday.  Do you still have my avi.  I love her, but do not have her anywhere.  More Magic?

Magnolia - I fixed you so you aren't naked now, lol  :lol:

That is correct.  GVC was groping her.  I hate them all. 8)   Where's Robots

ha ha ha

I added it back before you even asked, that's how good the MAGIC is  :lol:

Great 1st post Magnolia
Please post more ..

So if it was GVC  was Joarn with him or what ??? and what location ??
Sorry for so many questions.. :oops:

magnolia and sleddogs



hello

 :smt033

Thanks, Klass.  You are remarkable!

i think the creeps all used differnet names on differnet nights

MAGNOLIA!!!  It has been forever!  welcome back!  :lol:  :lol:  What are you cooking for me???

I was trying to picture "you".  You little cutey pie.  You have some good recipes too if I do say so .  :D

It's great to see the old group posting.  I've missed ya'll.  Miss Jacquie, Flying Mermaid, and so many others.  I always wonder how people are doing.

welcome back...

Please post more ..

So if it was GVC  was Joarn with him or what ??? and what location ??
Sorry for so many questions.. :oops:[/quote]

Dave said that Joran was with GVC and that GVC ended up pushing Nat, because she didn't want to dance with him.
I think that is when the MB boys got involved.  It was at Carlos and Charllie's

Well hubby is finally gonna put in the patio lights that we got a month ago.  I better go.  He needs supervision ya know.  God love him.  :lol:
How does he put up with me?  8)

O/T

Snoopy
Has  the gang in your area ever been to "Fast Eddie’s Bon-Air"
I could not think of the name when talking to LdStLou  last night

 Sorry for being O/T :lol:

Dave said that Joran was with GVC and that GVC ended up pushing Nat, because she didn't want to dance with him.
I think that is when the MB boys got involved.  It was at Carlos and Charllie's[/quote]

thanks Magnolia...

Nope.  Never heard of it, but I don't get out much. We're gonna have to all get together soon.  I seen where Katysmom is from Missouri.  Maybe she will join us.

Magnolia!!!  I am coming out of lurkdom to say wow !  I was worried about you as you were ill and we never heard from you.  I thought of you often as I use the SM cookbook and your recipes are awesome.  Those chicken enchiladas are a fav of my entire family now.  Welcome back!

Evening Monkeys! Been trying to read back and catch up.

I have always felt that the altercation with GVC and Natalee on that Friday night (I think that's right . . . ) may have drawn the PIMPS attention to her in particular. JMO

Hope evryone is doing well . . . sooo busy haven't been able to post but am always checking in to see what's going on.

[

Magnolia!!!  I am coming out of lurkdom to say wow !  I was worried about you as you were ill and we never heard from you.  I thought of you often as I use the SM cookbook and your recipes are awesome.  Those chicken enchiladas are a fav of my entire family now.  Welcome back![/quote]

Hey Frijole,
I see you lurking and wish you posted more.  Always made me laugh.
I have to depend on Robots lately.  He makes me laugh everyday.
All of this dis-information has me infuriated and decided I must stick my 2 cents in.

Shadow - hi!!  Good to see you too!

Hi Shadow
Seems like there was some shango / simian reference to someone being jealous too ?? Just can not remember more  :oops:

Thanks Klass! Good to be here.  :D

Just wanted to say good evening and hi to everyone.

So good to see some new/old faces, or something like that.

Some great posting today.

Joe T was on Fox at 5 today talking about the Football player Vick. Disgusting.

I am now watching Dan Abrams, will let you know if he says anything about the BOR show.

See ya,

Now where is Tyler, please come back, we miss you..

OS

Howdy shadow!!

Someone was just asking about Interviews with the PI'S in this case..Here is a Interview with TJ Ward a few months ago if you havent heard it yet..

Radio Interview with TJ Ward(Private Investigator) discussing Natalee Holloway Investigation 5-1-07
640 WGST Atlanta. Talk. Radio.


http://tinyurl.com/33o437

LOL  Guess I ran out of things that were funny.  This case wore me out and I feel like it's a living version of Groundhog's Day.  Can't imagine how the family feels.  Anyway - glad you came out of the shadows!

Hi os!!   Good tyo see ya

BBL

Hi oldfart I remember that as well. I was re-reading recently but also don't remember the exact reference.

Hey there Snoopy!

I thought you left to supervise  :lol:  :lol:

Fast Eddies is for the over 21 group...
But makes a nice day trip  or did 5+ years ago  :?
http://www.fasteddiesbonair.com/index.cfm
and cheap but good food if not counting anything ... cals. fats, carbs etc. :lol:

O/T  -but wow!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19939181/

MySpace deletes 29,000 sex offender profiles
New figure is more than four times the number originally cited by company


Updated: 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
NEW YORK - Popular Internet social network MySpace said on Tuesday it detected and deleted 29,000 convicted sex offenders on its service, more than four times the figure it had initially reported.

The company, owned by media conglomerate News Corp., said in May it had deleted about 7,000 user profiles that belonged to convicted offenders. MySpace attracts about 60 million unique visitors monthly in the United States.

The new information was first revealed by U.S. state authorities after MySpace turned over information on convicted sex offenders it had removed from the service.

Snoopy, are you in Mo?

French doctors are amazed that a 44-year-old civil servant with an abnormally small brain has led a normal life with a slightly lower than normal IQ, according to a report on [/b]
Why did I know he worked for the government before I opened the link ? In fact, he used to be my boss ! !  Before he got promoted to a posiiton in France.

Kat_Gram - LOL  :lol:

Hello to the new-ish Monkeys.
I am the Kanadian Kat.
I am a good monkey, unlike Robots.

Holy cow

Good for them,

OS

That was so freaky. I really was going to make a joke about where the guy worked. Work on my mind I guess.

Easy Klaas I think, has a window open on her computer all the time to the earthquake site. Here's the one I use
http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/

I didn't see that segment, but let me guess. Joe T supports Vick? He's always on the side of the cruel savages.  Hopefully I'm wrong and Joe T has a soft side - but prolly not.

Yes, said someone's b.f. "earlier" in the week was jealous.

Yeh, I here he cheats!!!    :lol:

His ability to be the first poster on new threads is,

Uncanny!

IBE
 :?   b.f.  :?   sorry but who the heck are you talking about ... I'm confused as usual

where is my head slap  smiley...
I got it...  :lol:

Actually it sounded like a repeat of his jvds spin some months ago.  yada, yada..

OS

I wonder if Nut44x4 (?) found out how to do a screen capture /print ?

Sleddogs - check your email please  :wink:

I have missed them sooooo much. Are they here? If so "hello" and welcome back! :lol:  :lol:

Here's what Simian had to say about the 1st person she supposedly met, compliments of the real Simian archive from Klass:

181.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.

That's what I figured, Joe T has no soul, he's just a heartless POS looking for a way to make a fast buck. Could care less about who gets hurt even if it's just an animal.

Thanks OS...
I wonder what the Americans living in Aruba were thinking ???

Makes me wonder if Simian wasnt someone from Boostunit.com as we know a poster there said Natalee had lunch with Lorenzo in june 2005 before the thread was erased.