Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 12:55:34 PM



Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 12:55:34 PM
Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/candleman2justice2007.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on July 25, 2007, 03:50:37 PM
Here!!!!  Am I first?  Where's robots? :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: "Kimmy53"
Here!!!!  Am I first?  Where's robots? :lol:

He's been slacking lately :lol:  Must need a WD-40 treatment  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 03:53:44 PM
Anna- I saw your post in the last thread... and I just don't know what their intentions are.

Hard to imagine that they could ever prosecute this case on Aruba.

And how could they transport everyone to Holland? ... I'm not sure what to think.

Someone would prolly burn down the Court house on Aruba. They sure have a fire bug running around lately.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 03:54:26 PM
did the KLPD bring in trained professionals, a.k.a. - THE CLEANUP CREW, to vacuum up any remaining evidence....

makes ya think, doesn't it ?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 03:55:11 PM
I just got the door slammed on my foot... :lol:

anyway I was adding speculation ...

what if dompig is helping to destroy evidence because he is also one to have comprimising dealings with tourist women?  His son was a bartender ... what better way to scope and "get" the women you want?

Back to the newspaper article talking about the "elders" ... maybe this entire cover up is to protect all the older men involved....

just a speculation.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 03:59:01 PM
If you are interested, Grande and I did a post today on a person that seems to have no regard for his wife disappearance today.

Grande had a very extensive conversation with Robert Arnette at Court TV message board. Robert Arnette is the last person seen with Naomi Arnette.

http://tinyurl.com/3bd44n

There will be more on my site from Grande in the next day or so as a family member of missing Naomi Arnette has reached out to Grande on this case.

This person has requested to speak directly to Grande.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 03:59:51 PM
Mrs. Red - check your email when you get a chance ok?  TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 25, 2007, 04:00:35 PM
Mrs. Red--I liked what you said in the last thread about Dirty Hand being a woman. I had never considered it either, until I randomly thought it could be Karin Janssen today.

Dirty Hand seems to me to be characterized as being in the middle, knowing how the Babylonians (good old boys) work, without really being one of them. It's an interesting take on it, if nothing else. I'm reading about Dirty Hand right now with the consideration that it may be a woman.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 04:01:18 PM
But now that KJ is not in charge, I wonder what will be the excuse for not prosecuting.

Paulus is a suspect.  J2K + SGC = 5th suspect.  Lorenzo is a witness, not a suspect.  What is Paulus alibi for that night?  That he was home sleeping soundly?  He lost the case against the governement for saying he was out and about at 4 a.m.

Did the prosecutor get steamed seeing the video of Paulus hitting on Natalee in the casino and bring those charges of premeditated murder against him? What is his alibi?  What is his timeline?  Why were the younger Sloots never questioned?  Would Val maybe say Paulus was not home that night?
Too much pure speculation but I would think breaking the alibi of Paulus if that alibi just happened to be the prosecutor would certainly bring down far more houses of cards than the alibi of a drug dealer.  Would just about levle the judiciary in Aruba.  Would shock the world, even.  

Gotta work but am thinking about all this. . . . . mind boggling possibilities should this rumor be true.


.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 04:01:37 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
If you are interested, Grande and I did a post today on a person that seems to have no regard for his wife disappearance today.

Grande had a very extensive conversation with Robert Arnette at Court TV message board. Robert Arnette is the last person seen with Naomi Arnette.

http://tinyurl.com/3bd44n

There will be more on my site from Grande in the next day or so as a family member of missing Naomi Arnette has reached out to Grande on this case.

This person has requested to speak directly to Grande.


by the way - that link is to Court TV .. where the conversation took place... very interesting stuff. It's all there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 04:11:55 PM
Thank you Blue... to me, it's worth thinking about.

Klaasend.. answered, but not very well...

and I am out for a while, take care be good...

keep the faith...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 25, 2007, 04:14:49 PM
snoopy wrote: Katysmom I'm south of St. Louis. Where are you from abouts?

katysmom wrote:  I'm down by Branson

snoopy wrote: That's right. I remember now. Near Lake Taneycomo right?


Snoopy:  Wow, you've got a great memory.  I'm right on Lake Taneycomo; about 9 miles from Branson


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: snoopy on July 25, 2007, 04:18:41 PM
Quote from: "Katysmom"
snoopy wrote: Katysmom I'm south of St. Louis. Where are you from abouts?

katysmom wrote:  I'm down by Branson

snoopy wrote: That's right. I remember now. Near Lake Taneycomo right?


Snoopy:  Wow, you've got a great memory.  I'm right on Lake Taneycomo; about 9 miles from Branson


I have moments!!  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: the big hammer on July 25, 2007, 04:20:46 PM
Clyde Burke

Klaas, who is Clyde Burke?  What does he do, what is his connection to
this investigation?

TIA.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:21:56 PM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Clyde Burke

Klaas, who is Clyde Burke?  What does he do, what is his connection to
this investigation?

TIA.


Clyde Burke is ALE and was involved in taking many of the witness/suspect statements.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: the big hammer on July 25, 2007, 04:28:05 PM
Clyde Burke = ALE?

klaas writes:  Clyde Burke is ALE and was involved in taking many of the witness/suspect statements.

How are you klaas?  Thanks for your quick reply.

What makes you think Clude Burke is Simian?

I know you have researched much, would be interested to hear your perspective on this.

TIA

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:29:21 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Clyde Burke

Klaas, who is Clyde Burke?  What does he do, what is his connection to
this investigation?

TIA.


Clyde Burke is ALE and was involved in taking many of the witness/suspect statements.


I've highlighted the ALE members who witnessed the statements:

Sander Gottenbos   brother of Koen Gottenbos      6/17/2005   11:15   Clyde Burke / Shaniro Kelly
Margaritha Werlemen Dijkhoff   v/d Sloot live in maid      6/20/2005   20:35   Clyde Burke / Shaniro Kelly
Amanda Metz   v/d Sloot girlfriend      6/20/2005   15:50   Clyde Burke / Shaniro Kelly
Gilayla Flanegin   Friend of v/d Sloot      6/20/2005   19:00   Clyde Burke / Shaniro Kelly

Antonius Mickey John   interrogation of a suspect - request 41   Holiday Inn   6/5/2006   10:30   Clyde Burke       
Abraham Jones   interrogation of a suspect - request 41   Holiday Inn   6/6/2005   15:45   Clyde Burke       
Francisco Remigio Thiel   fishermen      6/5/2005   13:55   Clyde Burke / Johny Erasmus       
Niharika Triveedi   Friend of V/D sloot      7/2/2005   10:10   Marlon Gumbs / Clyde Burke       
George Twitty         7/5/2005   17:00   Marlon Gumbs / Clyde Burke       

Paul van der Sloot         6/18/2005   18:30   Roland Tromp / Clyde Burke       

Sander Gottenbos   brother of Koen Gottenbos      6/16/2005   17:10   Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke       
Steve Croes         6/21/2005   13:00   Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Clyde Burke = ALE?

klaas writes:  Clyde Burke is ALE and was involved in taking many of the witness/suspect statements.

How are you klaas?  Thanks for your quick reply.

What makes you think Clude Burke is Simian?

I know you have researched much, would be interested to hear your perspective on this.

TIA

.


I did some research into Clyde Burke.  Found he is interrested in music and also participated in a band.  There are other reasons why I believe Clyde to be Simian that I can't post.  

It's clear that Simian was getting inside ALE information and giving it to us either right before or when it was happening.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 04:31:51 PM
I believe Grande is correct and found that Burke seemingly posted a message only thirty minutes after a statement was taken and only someone with inside knowledge could have known that info that fast.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:35:07 PM
ROB - did you see this post from the archives?


papito

Joined: 26 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mr. Paul van der Sloot is da chief justice on da island (he is da boss of the judges) it's because of that, that the Chief Justice of Curacao has to come to the island to follow and make the choices in the case.
I agree that there is something fishy about the whole thing, but it's unfair how the world now look at Aruba.
We are very caring and loving people. In the States much worse things happen and after sometimes 10 /20 years they crack the case. Give the arubians a little bit of slack. Don't forget that we are surrounded by sea if they dumped (IF THEY DID) her body in the sea. The sharkes would have already eaten the body. And if the suspects shut up and don't talk than the case will close and they will go out free. And don't forget either that paul is a chief justice he knows the law like you guys know the songs they play on MTV. It's not easy to crack a chief justice.

A Police officer of The sunny happy Island of Aruba


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 04:35:34 PM
NORTHWEST AIRLINES FLIGHT RETURNS TO SEA-TAC AIRPORT AFTER REPORT OF BOMB ON BOARD

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tiger on July 25, 2007, 04:37:28 PM
Nice post by Greta on the Holloway case.Nothing new.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: "Tiger"
Nice post by Greta on the Holloway case.Nothing new.


No nothing new but I'm still glad she posting something on it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 04:40:45 PM
Yes Klaas - looks like Jairo's writing to me. It's not Edwin Comemencia imo.

What is yours??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:42:12 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Yes Klaas - looks like Jairo's writing to me. It's not Edwin Comemencia imo.

What is yours??


Whoever posted that was posting from Aruba.  Jairo was in Florida at the time.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Yes Klaas - looks like Jairo's writing to me. It's not Edwin Comemencia imo.

What is yours??




Whoever posted that was posting from Aruba.  Jairo was in Florida at the time.


he's the only one I know that still say Arubians. So you think Edwin would be online?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:52:14 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Yes Klaas - looks like Jairo's writing to me. It's not Edwin Comemencia imo.

What is yours??




Whoever posted that was posting from Aruba.  Jairo was in Florida at the time.


he's the only one I know that still say Arubians. So you think Edwin would be online?


I don't know if it was Edwin or someone pretending to be him.  All I know is what they posted and the fact that they were posting from Aruba.

I know from Yahoo Chat that Jairo was definately in Florida at the time, he said so.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 04:54:20 PM
I was also in Yahoo Chat when Fox showed "panty boy" on TV and Jairo said in Yahoo Chat "oh shit, that's my cousin (or nephew)"


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 25, 2007, 05:00:55 PM
Good afternoon Monkeys.   :)

Isn't it interesting some of the things that have come up to the surface here again since we can read some of the old stuff.  Like the lysol bottle, the visibility team shirt and so on.  I think it helps us remember some of the dates/times of events too.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 05:02:09 PM
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon Monkeys.   :)

Isn't it interesting some of the things that have come up to the surface here again since we can read some of the old stuff.  Like the lysol bottle, the visibility team shirt and so on.  I think it helps us remember some of the dates/times of events too.


I LOVE having those archives back and really look forward to getting the rest!  I want to read all of Bondia's posts again. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 25, 2007, 05:08:04 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon Monkeys.   :)

Isn't it interesting some of the things that have come up to the surface here again since we can read some of the old stuff.  Like the lysol bottle, the visibility team shirt and so on.  I think it helps us remember some of the dates/times of events too.


I LOVE having those archives back and really look forward to getting the rest!  I want to read all of Bondia's posts again. :lol:


Oh yes-I definitely want to read all of Bondia's posts again too.  Might be a little more interesting this time around, I think.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 05:09:11 PM
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon Monkeys.   :)

Isn't it interesting some of the things that have come up to the surface here again since we can read some of the old stuff.  Like the lysol bottle, the visibility team shirt and so on.  I think it helps us remember some of the dates/times of events too.


I LOVE having those archives back and really look forward to getting the rest!  I want to read all of Bondia's posts again. :lol:


Oh yes-I definitely want to read all of Bondia's posts again too.  Might be a little more interesting this time around, I think.


Interresting and irritating, lol  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 05:09:46 PM
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon Monkeys.   :)

Isn't it interesting some of the things that have come up to the surface here again since we can read some of the old stuff.  Like the lysol bottle, the visibility team shirt and so on.  I think it helps us remember some of the dates/times of events too.

Hi Muffy, shows me how involved the visibility team is in the coverup.  I bet they have a lot of videos also.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 25, 2007, 05:15:15 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon Monkeys.   :)

Isn't it interesting some of the things that have come up to the surface here again since we can read some of the old stuff.  Like the lysol bottle, the visibility team shirt and so on.  I think it helps us remember some of the dates/times of events too.

Hi Muffy, shows me how involved the visibility team is in the coverup.  I bet they have a lot of videos also.


I think when we can read over the words and phrases, coupled with the timing on some of the posts, more of the intention to cover up and feed disinformation will become even more apparent.  It could give much more insight to where some of it was coming from and why.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 05:23:01 PM
Clyde Burke, do you have a conscience?  You know the evidence that was gathered.  You know what the suspects and witnesses said.  You know what happened to the evidence!  You know what happened to Natalee.  Did you talk to the KLPD?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: justinsmama on July 25, 2007, 05:25:14 PM
Hi, all. Natalee has been on my mind a lot lately. My heart is heavy for her and the family.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 06:09:51 PM
From the SM forum archives:


jairodirksen

Joined: 28 Apr 2006

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Arubagirl, I have one question. Can you explain to me where Joran lives precisly?

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Jairo, I don't know exactly where Joran's house is, but if you come from the the 'rotonde' Tanki Flip, you go in the direction of Giselle Department store, take a right the next street after the Sportcomplex that they're building, keep on driving for about a few minutes, and there you'll find Montanja. My friends and i didn't exactly look for his house number, it was too dark.
 
jairodirksen


Joined: 28 Apr 2006

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Thx arubagirl, well than there's no way he could have walked home from the Marriott to his house, just too far.

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I also think it's unlikely, jairo.
 
arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
About the distance, jairo, I drove yesterday night from the beginning of Fisherman's Huts to Montanja, and according to my kilometer reader it was 5 km, so 3 miles.

About searching the houses of v/d S, and brothers, they searched it when they were being interrogated. They may have gone back to seize the computer, but they searched the house and the lead prosecutor Caren Janssen got annoyed when asked that question twice, that's why I remember.

The parents (I'm thinking mom and stepfather) changed the headings to from missing to kidnapping themselves. van der Straaten's reaction was that the stressed that there was no evidence of kidnapping.


jairodirksen



Joined: 28 Apr 2006

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Arubagirl, which roads did you take?

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Jairo: I started at the very beginning of Fisherman's huts. Went right on Sasaki, took the left lane of the traffic lights at McDonald's level to go left. Went left, went straight until I ended up at the traffic lights of Noord (was at the level of Caribbean Palm Village). Went right at those traffic lights, drove straight, passed Fermin's bar, took the left at the next intersection. So that particular road is in between Fermin's bar and the sportcomplex that they're building. Went down that road, in about 3 minutes you will find a "t-kruising", went right, drove for about 2 minutes, and I saw a sign that says Montanja appartments and stopped counting there. I don't know at which number I was exactly, but I was in Montanja

jairodirksen



Joined: 28 Apr 2006

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Thx, arubagirl, eventhough I don't understand why you need to bold my name. I just think it's too far for him to walk from the Mariott all the way to his house.

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Daniel, by my count he has about three stories

1) Dopped off at Holiday Inn
2) Dropped off at his house
3) Dropped off at Marriott / Fisherman's huts.

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Oh, about the him being dropped off at his house, that's what his lawyer said that his story was the first time they had to face the judge of instructions (rechter-comissaris)
 
jairodirksen



Joined: 28 Apr 2006

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:05 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Arubagirl, the story about Joran being dropped off at his home was when he told on of the 2 guards held in the police station at Noord. It was one of the guards who told the public this story.

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
jairo, well, the lawyer said that "Joran told me that he was dropped off at home by the two brothers".
 
 
arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
His lawyer Carlo said this on the courthouse steps, Luna. I didn't even know that the guard(s) also said this.

 jairodirksen



Joined: 28 Apr 2006

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Arubagirl, his attorney Carlo told the press the same day that his client did not change his story, again we don't have the investigation transcripts, as we know that has been confirmed by the prosecuter's office he had one story when he was a witness and another story when he became a suspect.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 06:11:09 PM
More from the SM forum archives:

Daniel



Joined: 23 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:44 pm    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
The Dutch newsitem that Iquitos posted on page 27 contains some very interesting tidbits:

"According to the police, Joran van der Sloot has changed statements some four or five times now. Police spokesperson Papito Comenencia stated enigmatically: "We're still missing three pieces of the puzzle. If we find one, we'll have the other two as well".
The police is still conducting searches. They've been working together since yesterday with volunteers of EquuSearch from Texas, who have brought sensitive equipment to Aruba. Comenencia: “they're capable people who know what they're doing". The 24 member team includes a number of divers. Previously, the FBI has employed divers too, in vain.
Natalee Holloway's mother isn't surprised by the team's coming to Aruba to help find her daughter: "We've received many offers of assistance, including from diver teams, bounty hunters, all kinds of people who help us search. The more, the better, and the sooner we will find out what happened. It's really about time that we do".


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Frank on July 25, 2007, 06:17:31 PM
Can someone please tell me what Greta posted and why it's "nice."


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: "Frank"
Can someone please tell me what Greta posted and why it's "nice."


It's a long post on her blog so better you read it.  I wouldn't call it nice except that it keeps Natalee in the news still.  She also had a short video of Junior (Raul) the landfill witness where they took him to the landfill and he was going to show them where he saw things, but it turned out to be a waste of time.  Here's the link:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290698,00.html


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Frank on July 25, 2007, 06:28:13 PM
...and another:

BRIDGEPORT, Conn. —  A man charged with improperly disposing of a corpse claims he chopped up his friend's body, stuffed the parts in a metal drum and rolled it into a river in a panic after the friend died of a drug overdose, police said.

The drum, with the body parts inside, was found floating in the Pequonnock River in Bridgeport last week.

Felix Rivera, 23, was charged Tuesday with improper disposal of a dead body after he told police his story of what happened to Charles Gerber, police Lt. James Viadero said.


Police said Rivera told them he and Gerber had been celebrating their release from jail following arrests on assault and weapons-related charges. Gerber, 34, had taken pills, drunk alcohol and smoked the hallucinogen PCP on July 17 before Rivera discovered he had stopped breathing, according to police.

Rivera told police he became "paranoid" and decided to hide the body in a metal drum. When the 5-foot-9, 180-pound body didn't fit, he used an ax to cut off the head, hands and feet, police said.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:28:48 PM
Well one thing that does is put Natalee's name back in the news, and it also shows how people in aruba are so busy hustling people, don't care, and reminds people not to go there.

Didn't sound very fun... streets with no names, howling, abused puppies, just didn't sound like my idea of a vacation!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZSunny on July 25, 2007, 06:40:08 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon Monkeys.   :)

Isn't it interesting some of the things that have come up to the surface here again since we can read some of the old stuff.  Like the lysol bottle, the visibility team shirt and so on.  I think it helps us remember some of the dates/times of events too.


I LOVE having those archives back and really look forward to getting the rest!  I want to read all of Bondia's posts again. :lol:


Oh yes-I definitely want to read all of Bondia's posts again too.  Might be a little more interesting this time around, I think.


Interresting and irritating, lol  :lol:


Klaas, "they" were irritating the first time!!  Ah yes,  I remember it well. :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 25, 2007, 06:41:58 PM
http://www.arubatahot.com/124.aspx?kl=4

some very recent pix of people and places/Aruba categorized


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: thirdstrike on July 25, 2007, 06:43:21 PM
Hello everyone!!  ;)  What's the word?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:44:25 PM
Hey Third!

still hanging in hoping for justice
what's new with you?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
http://www.arubatahot.com/124.aspx?kl=4

some very recent pix of people and places/Aruba categorized


Nut44x4 are the recent photos of Joran in Aruba(july 18th) included in any of the links you post, would you know? I will check them out regardless, so TIA.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: thirdstrike on July 25, 2007, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Hey Third!

still hanging in hoping for justice
what's new with you?


Oh my, as I live and breathe.  Aren't you a sight for sore eyes...;)

I'm good.  Thanks!!  It's GREAT to see you!  It's been quite a while...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:48:01 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
http://www.arubatahot.com/124.aspx?kl=4

some very recent pix of people and places/Aruba categorized


Nut44x4 are the recent photos of Joran in Aruba(july 18th) included in any of the links you post, would you know? I will check them out regardless, so TIA.


That would be nice to know Bleached, it's not like he is touring the US promoting his book....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:49:02 PM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Hey Third!

still hanging in hoping for justice
what's new with you?


Oh my, as I live and breathe.  Aren't you a sight for sore eyes...;)

I'm good.  Thanks!!  It's GREAT to see you!  It's been quite a while...


Thanks! it's interesting reading the old stuff... and it's great to see some "old faces"...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:49:48 PM
Just being curious but do we know how many books have actually sold?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: thirdstrike on July 25, 2007, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Hey Third!

still hanging in hoping for justice
what's new with you?


Oh my, as I live and breathe.  Aren't you a sight for sore eyes...;)

I'm good.  Thanks!!  It's GREAT to see you!  It's been quite a while...


Thanks! it's interesting reading the old stuff... and it's great to see some "old faces"...


Why I gotta be old???  ;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:50:22 PM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Hey Third!

still hanging in hoping for justice
what's new with you?


Oh my, as I live and breathe.  Aren't you a sight for sore eyes...;)

I'm good.  Thanks!!  It's GREAT to see you!  It's been quite a while...


Thanks! it's interesting reading the old stuff... and it's great to see some "old faces"...


Why I gotta be old???  ;)


honey hush, ain't no one old in this cage!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: thirdstrike on July 25, 2007, 06:51:46 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Just being curious but do we know how many books have actually sold?


Oh God!  You mean someone would have actually bought that book?  Has anyone in here actually read it?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: thirdstrike on July 25, 2007, 06:54:07 PM
I know this isn't the right forum, but I'll keep it brief.  It was funny...I was thinking about you the other day (and our mystery movie quotes).  Good times (for the cause, of course) back in the day!! :)

OK, back to Joran's crappy book...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:54:36 PM
I think it's been read in parts... BFN has posted parts of it ... I just wondered if more than say 20 sold...

notice it's not for sale in the US.... and isn't going to be...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 25, 2007, 06:58:43 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
http://www.arubatahot.com/124.aspx?kl=4

some very recent pix of people and places/Aruba categorized


Nut44x4 are the recent photos of Joran in Aruba(july 18th) included in any of the links you post, would you know? I will check them out regardless, so TIA.


I have not looked at all of them yet...sorry.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: A's Fever on July 25, 2007, 06:59:19 PM
O/T  --- Mrs. Red, thanks for putting that story about the perv who was set free because the court couldn't get an interpreter on time on the Front Page.  These kinds of stories need as much exposure as possible!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 06:59:30 PM
well Third, we can always restart the game... LOL!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: "A's Fever"
O/T  --- Mrs. Red, thanks for putting that story about the perv who was set free because the court couldn't get an interpreter on time on the Front Page.  These kinds of stories need as much exposure as possible!


A's... actually thank you... SM is about getting the stories, whenever possible out there that you guys bring to us.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "A's Fever"
O/T  --- Mrs. Red, thanks for putting that story about the perv who was set free because the court couldn't get an interpreter on time on the Front Page.  These kinds of stories need as much exposure as possible!


A's... actually thank you... SM is about getting the stories, whenever possible out there that you guys bring to us.


oh and Thank RED... he is the one that put it out there on the front page...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: thirdstrike on July 25, 2007, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
well Third, we can always restart the game... LOL!


If you'll start it back up, I'm down to play...;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
well Third, we can always restart the game... LOL!


If you'll start it back up, I'm down to play...;)


Please start it in the Monkey Lounge and not here, OK  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 07:05:35 PM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
well Third, we can always restart the game... LOL!


If you'll start it back up, I'm down to play...;)

K... how about after we have the new forum???  That will give me some time to really get some hard quotes to figure out...

O/T - did y'all see that the two suspects in the CT dr's case were released prior convicts for good behavior... ?? WTH??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 07:06:15 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
well Third, we can always restart the game... LOL!


If you'll start it back up, I'm down to play...;)


Please start it in the Monkey Lounge and not here, OK  :wink:

Oh I was... I don't want to get banned... :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: thirdstrike on July 25, 2007, 07:16:29 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
well Third, we can always restart the game... LOL!


If you'll start it back up, I'm down to play...;)


Please start it in the Monkey Lounge and not here, OK  :wink:

Oh I was... I don't want to get banned... :lol:


Me neither!  I've been enough of a trouble starter during my time in here...;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 07:20:49 PM
(http://www.pokernews.com/i/xsmiles/labas.gif)
Just peeking in before a Nap (gave blood it always makes me sleepy  :oops: )

I see some OLD / familiar faces...that I have not seen in a bit  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 07:24:21 PM
Klaasend / San anyone with an edit button..
Could you put the IMG tags around my waving smiley link  :oops:

NUT44x4
Did you find out how to do a screen capture / print ?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: A's Fever on July 25, 2007, 07:28:25 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "A's Fever"
O/T  --- Mrs. Red, thanks for putting that story about the perv who was set free because the court couldn't get an interpreter on time on the Front Page.  These kinds of stories need as much exposure as possible!


A's... actually thank you... SM is about getting the stories, whenever possible out there that you guys bring to us.


oh and Thank RED... he is the one that put it out there on the front page...


I would, but don't know how to reach him.  Thought you might  :oops:

Off to a swim meet, bye!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 07:32:01 PM
Quote from: "A's Fever"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "A's Fever"
O/T  --- Mrs. Red, thanks for putting that story about the perv who was set free because the court couldn't get an interpreter on time on the Front Page.  These kinds of stories need as much exposure as possible!


A's... actually thank you... SM is about getting the stories, whenever possible out there that you guys bring to us.


oh and Thank RED... he is the one that put it out there on the front page...


I would, but don't know how to reach him.  Thought you might  :oops:

Off to a swim meet, bye!

I will be sure to do that... you can email him .. link on front page. :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 07:38:21 PM
A's I am sorry... that came out wrong..

I meant to say, I will be sure and tell him.  If you would like to tell him you can email him... red@scaredmonkeys.com.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: igsigs on July 25, 2007, 07:39:10 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
I want to read all of Bondia's posts again. :lol:

Here's a preview. :arrow:

On 6/29/05 flutiegirl posts:

Did anyone else find it strange that julia renfro was almost praising steve croes? like sickly gushing over him?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 07:40:07 PM
Posted by GrannyToad at BFN:

Joran needs so much to come up with one and another tale he'd like to have fit what really (didn't!) happen. First night he spun one where he gambled to help Natalee win back some of her daddy's money she'd lost gambling. Next it's Ruth (who'd already left before Joran got there) urging him to go dance with Natalee. Told his beach story with a cardboard cutout Natalee Doll playing the part so many other girls had played out with him in the past. Plays pretty loose with the "cast of characters".

(Does his mama know he plays with paper dolls?) Laddieboy does live in a lying fantasy world, doesn't he. Truth could, should bite him in the arse.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 07:42:05 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
Quote from: "klaasend"
I want to read all of Bondia's posts again. :lol:

Here's a preview. :arrow:

On 6/29/05 flutiegirl posts:

Did anyone else find it strange that julia renfro was almost praising steve croes? like sickly gushing over him?


 :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 07:53:06 PM
at that point did we know that julia was one of the bondias?

I know a lot of people caught on quick... but a lot of us didn't know she was julia... not at first anyway.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
at that point did we know that julia was one of the bondias?

I know a lot of people caught on quick... but a lot of us didn't know she was julia... not at first anyway.


I did because she knew a friend of mine from a surf store downtown and told me that she knew him too..

hard to miss his place since it's right next to Mambo and her and her clique get bombed in there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: igsigs on July 25, 2007, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
at that point did we know that julia was one of the bondias?

Hey mrs. red, i didn't know until the end...say around Nov. 05. I don't remember people openly posting about it either. I do remember being nice to her in a vain attempt to get her to post on-topic. I hope Dugga can edit some of that out!   :?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: greeneyedlady on July 25, 2007, 08:08:27 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Posted by GrannyToad at BFN:

Joran needs so much to come up with one and another tale he'd like to have fit what really (didn't!) happen. First night he spun one where he gambled to help Natalee win back some of her daddy's money she'd lost gambling. Next it's Ruth (who'd already left before Joran got there) urging him to go dance with Natalee. Told his beach story with a cardboard cutout Natalee Doll playing the part so many other girls had played out with him in the past. Plays pretty loose with the "cast of characters".

(Does his mama know he plays with paper dolls?) Laddieboy does live in a lying fantasy world, doesn't he. Truth could, should bite him in the arse.


Gotta love Granny Toad as she tells it like it is. :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 08:08:28 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
at that point did we know that julia was one of the bondias?

I know a lot of people caught on quick... but a lot of us didn't know she was julia... not at first anyway.


Bondia wasn't posting at SM yet at that point.  I would say Red knew who Bondia was probably from the beginning, or soon after they started posting.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Mere on July 25, 2007, 08:12:21 PM
Klaas....will all of the archives be available when the new forum opens?

....and thank you.... :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: "Mere"
Klaas....will all of the archives be available when the new forum opens?

....and thank you.... :D


I don't know for sure what Dugga will have been able to restore.  I think it's going to be an ongoing process.

By the way, you seem to have lost "ME", LOLOL  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 08:14:48 PM
This is a repost. Give me your thoughts on this possible scenario........

It boggles my mind to think through play-by-play scenarios of how the fateful night unfolded. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

Once NH gave Joran confirmation that she may leave with him after bar, this would have been an appropriate time for Joran to set up a spiked drink for her to drink. (otherwise, why have her drink spiked if there wasn't a guarantee that NH would even leave with him after the bar closed and waste the drug and/or money for the drugged drink)

They (J2K) probably did as expected and drove around allowing time for the drug to take effect on her already intoxicated body. Small talk, adolescent petting (J and NH) in back seat of car. Deepak pisses on side of road. NH may have realized at this point that trouble had befallen her but did not have energy, logical thinking, or means to get out of situation.

The three realized that their own homes were not the place to go. Joran would not take Nat to his own home with sleeping family, and Kalpoes surely would not go back to Nadira and their home. Somewhere abandoned would serve the purpose here. Lighthouse area would work. I wonder about lighting to see what was going on. Why would they get it on inside car with friends present, although not out of the question. ( I am open to ideas as to the scene of the alleged rape - where were condoms found ?? ) While tourists may go to lighthouse area at this time of night, a native would know to go slightly beyond the touristy area where they would be totally undetectable. Nat, knowing her fate, probably had her blood boiling way beyond control, especially, if drugs in system. She kicked and fought her best - assaulted by J2K while raped and eventually went into cardiac arrest, dying at the hands of J2K. (Unknown(s) – (a) who was in alleged white trailing car - Guido ??, (b) is this when a call was attempted?)

Heading back to high-rise area as needed to be seen for alibi purposes, stopped along the way, J2K + 1 guest player, sat and talked to think of plan. This could be where spotted by guy walking to work. In the car sat J2K + guest – (Nat either left at site of rape or in trunk) Open to ideas as to (a)1 guest or multiple guests(plural), (b) 2nd car vs only K2 car, (c) was freddy- the cameraman here or not. I TEND TO THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE RUIN A SECRET SIDING WITH FEWER PEOPLE PRESENT - NO GUESTS OR ONLY 1 GUEST

At this point, it became time to involve Daddy - Paulus. Paulus or his children got on websites - porn, soccer, etc.., for a possible alibi.. He, at this time, would have advised the boys to text each other as if home, also telling the K bros to wash their car thoroughly, not speak, and meet back in AM at Sloot house for further game plan. Paulus comes to pick up Joran and dead NH at this point @ McD??? 4AM.

Paulus and Joran likely drove off into the night carrying out disposal plan. (no idea where they went) to LVR? - Sloot house? No clue here.

The meeting at the Sloot house early afternoon time. Paulus had a chance to work the phone early AM for favors and get others involvement. Joran = I am not sold that he attended school (if he did, he left early or was enabled to go home) SK definitely did not attend school, DK afternoon work (or no work.)

The rest is history as other high powered, intelligently evil thinkers helped collaborate a corrupted and colluded plan from there and executed as needed.

The Twittys did make them sweat it, tough, as their arrival was fast and furious.

Just thinking out loud... any additions or disagreements to this timeline of events are welcome.  Another scenario that crosses my mind is a small pool party at the Sloot house. This would have made things very covenient for all.

I feel, somewhat, that there were not many people involved in the actual crime.  Their help was required later on and each has limited information.  TOO MANY PEOPLE RUIN A SECRET.

I also feel NH body may have been destroyed on land as it would give the perpetrators 100% control and leave no possibility in the future for discovery.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 08:16:25 PM
Is it fact or rumor that clothes of NH were found at LVR?

If fact, any proof to back it up?

If rumor, any source of the rumor?

Clothes of NH at LVR house would certainly allow for further investigation into LVR's involvement.

I am still curious as to status of LVR and his detention status - seems quiet on the front, unlike J2K's detentions, extensions, etc..

Anyone seen the sporter lately ? Or K2 – wonder what they are up to these days………


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 08:19:38 PM
BUCKSHOT - all very possible


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 08:21:54 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Is it fact or rumor that clothes of NH were found at LVR?

If fact, any proof to back it up? Rumor

If rumor, any source of the rumor? Americaninaruba & Arubagirl

Clothes of NH at LVR house would certainly allow for further investigation into LVR's involvement.

I am still curious as to status of LVR and his detention status - seems quiet on the front, unlike J2K's detentions, extensions, etc..  STILL DETAINED
Anyone seen the sporter lately ? Or K2 – wonder what they are up to these days………


My answers in red.  No sightings of JK2 at all that I'm aware of.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 08:24:21 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
at that point did we know that julia was one of the bondias?

I know a lot of people caught on quick... but a lot of us didn't know she was julia... not at first anyway.


Bondia wasn't posting at SM yet at that point.  I would say Red knew who Bondia was probably from the beginning, or soon after they started posting.


I am sure he did too... and unfortunately at first, he thought she did want to help. Hindsight is 20/20 - and I don't think he knew until toward the end that she had multiple personalities.

Isgigs.. I didn't know that there were more than one... I only knew because of Red... and several people emailed me at the time that they strongly suspected, and thanks to them we saw the differences in posting and found that there were more than one.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
BUCKSHOT - all very possible


Agreed...I am sure you are right on in a lot of areas, but I can't see J at McD's being picked up by Paulus with a dead body in tow.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 08:30:16 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
This is a repost. Give me your thoughts on this possible scenario........

It boggles my mind to think through play-by-play scenarios of how the fateful night unfolded. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

Once NH gave Joran confirmation that she may leave with him after bar, this would have been an appropriate time for Joran to set up a spiked drink for her to drink. (otherwise, why have her drink spiked if there wasn't a guarantee that NH would even leave with him after the bar closed and waste the drug and/or money for the drugged drink)

First, I do not believe Natalee ever agreed to leave C&C's with Joran.  One classmate saw her leaving C&C's walking next to Joran, but not touching him or acting like she was with him.  Natalee, at that point, said she was going back to the HI with the group of MB students walking in front of her.  Another classmate reported that he was seated at an upstairs bar across the street from C&C's about 1:15 am and saw Natalee being escorted out of C&C's by Deepak, with him holding her by the elbow.  It makes sense that Natalee probably went back to C&C's looking for friends.  When Joran couldn't get her to the car, Deepak was sent back to pose as a taxi driver and bring her to the car.  She may have been highly disoriented by this time.  Regardless, no evidence exists that Natalee intended to leave with Joran.  In fact, she stated that she was going back to the HI with the MB students.

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
They (J2K) probably did as expected and drove around allowing time for the drug to take effect on her already intoxicated body. Small talk, adolescent petting (J and NH) in back seat of car. Deepak pisses on side of road. NH may have realized at this point that trouble had befallen her but did not have energy, logical thinking, or means to get out of situation.

I agree.


Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"

The three realized that their own homes were not the place to go. Joran would not take Nat to his own home with sleeping family, and Kalpoes surely would not go back to Nadira and their home. Somewhere abandoned would serve the purpose here. Lighthouse area would work. I wonder about lighting to see what was going on. Why would they get it on inside car with friends present, although not out of the question. ( I am open to ideas as to the scene of the alleged rape - where were condoms found ?? ) While tourists may go to lighthouse area at this time of night, a native would know to go slightly beyond the touristy area where they would be totally undetectable. Nat, knowing her fate, probably had her blood boiling way beyond control, especially, if drugs in system. She kicked and fought her best - assaulted by J2K while raped and eventually went into cardiac arrest, dying at the hands of J2K. (Unknown(s) – (a) who was in alleged white trailing car - Guido ??, (b) is this when a call was attempted?)

I disagree.  I do believe they took her to Joran's apartment at the VSD home.  First, I do not believe Anita and the other two sons were home.  Second, this is the logical place to take her.  It is private and familiar to them.  I do believe this apartment was used as a meeting place frequently.  There is talk that all Joran's friends parked on the other side of the wall and just jumped the wall to enter his apartment.  Most likely others were at the apartment--Guido, Freddy, maybe others.  I do think Natalee was gang raped and violently assaulted.  She was beaten, probably by Joran.  Guido was charged with battery.  I do believe they also videotaped the rape and assault.  I believe Natalee died from their violent attack.

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"

Heading back to high-rise area as needed to be seen for alibi purposes, stopped along the way, J2K + 1 guest player, sat and talked to think of plan. This could be where spotted by guy walking to work. In the car sat J2K + guest – (Nat either left at site of rape or in trunk) Open to ideas as to (a)1 guest or multiple guests(plural), (b) 2nd car vs only K2 car, (c) was freddy- the cameraman here or not. I TEND TO THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE RUIN A SECRET SIDING WITH FEWER PEOPLE PRESENT - NO GUESTS OR ONLY 1 GUEST

At this point, it became time to involve Daddy - Paulus. Paulus or his children got on websites - porn, soccer, etc.., for a possible alibi.. He, at this time, would have advised the boys to text each other as if home, also telling the K bros to wash their car thoroughly, not speak, and meet back in AM at Sloot house for further game plan. Paulus comes to pick up Joran and dead NH at this point @ McD??? 4AM.

Paulus and Joran likely drove off into the night carrying out disposal plan. (no idea where they went) to LVR? - Sloot house? No clue here.

The meeting at the Sloot house early afternoon time. Paulus had a chance to work the phone early AM for favors and get others involvement. Joran = I am not sold that he attended school (if he did, he left early or was enabled to go home) SK definitely did not attend school, DK afternoon work (or no work.)

The rest is history as other high powered, intelligently evil thinkers helped collaborate a corrupted and colluded plan from there and executed as needed.

The Twittys did make them sweat it, tough, as their arrival was fast and furious.

Just thinking out loud... any additions or disagreements to this timeline of events are welcome.  Another scenario that crosses my mind is a small pool party at the Sloot house. This would have made things very covenient for all.

I feel, somewhat, that there were not many people involved in the actual crime.  Their help was required later on and each has limited information.  TOO MANY PEOPLE RUIN A SECRET.

I also feel NH body may have been destroyed on land as it would give the perpetrators 100% control and leave no possibility in the future for discovery.


After Natalee died, Paulus was called in to help cover up the crime.  I think it's likely that he called Lorenzo, searching for help for an overdose or how to hide the body.  The details are hard to decipher.  I think we agree that Joran, the 2K's, Guido, Freddy, possibly Koen were involved, maybe GVC in the rape and death of Natalee.  Paulus was called in afterward to coverup and then others like Lorenzo also helped.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 08:33:29 PM
Buckshot... I also want to add to your theory.  Remember that jk2 went to the bar only 30 minutes before closing...so they had to work quickly.  I think that there wasn't time for Natalee to agree to go with him... I think they separated her from the group... and that they convinced her to go back to the hotel where Joran was supposedly staying...


Rob... did your friend know who the other bondia's were?  I would love to know that for a fact...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 08:35:32 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
at that point did we know that julia was one of the bondias?

I know a lot of people caught on quick... but a lot of us didn't know she was julia... not at first anyway.


Bondia wasn't posting at SM yet at that point.  I would say Red knew who Bondia was probably from the beginning, or soon after they started posting.


I am sure he did too... and unfortunately at first, he thought she did want to help. Hindsight is 20/20 - and I don't think he knew until toward the end that she had multiple personalities.

Isgigs.. I didn't know that there were more than one... I only knew because of Red... and several people emailed me at the time that they strongly suspected, and thanks to them we saw the differences in posting and found that there were more than one.


Exactly


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 08:38:00 PM
I am so saddened to hear from GEL that both her brother and sister were in a terrible car accident. There is a post in the prayer thread .

Here is a link to light a candle.........group is SM.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=sm


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 08:40:56 PM
I will never forget her chastizing Flying Mermaid for saying that a person who was a chef on the island was trying to move to Florida.

She stated very emphatically that everyone knew everyone else's business and that there were no secrets on the island and that FM was endangering the chef's job....

it was at that point I started to really question her motives, she always picked a fight with someone including me at times...

also that always (bold part) stuck with me... and it was why I didn't feel sorry for anyone regarding a boycott... they all knew everything so they had to know who and why Natalee was harmed.  She singlehandedly sealed my position on the boycott.... that day.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 08:40:57 PM
Peeking back in
Semi  O/T

I tried search for BT*  to find any SockMonkey updates and came up with nothing :shock:   then Tried Oldf* and got hits..  :?
Just thought I would pass it along

 :oops:   (http://www.pokernews.com/i/xsmiles/labas.gif) Hi gang..
PS.. I remembered the IMG tags this time  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 08:45:42 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Peeking back in
Semi  O/T

I tried search for BT*  to find any SockMonkey updates and came up with nothing :shock:   then Tried Oldf* and got hits..  :?
Just thought I would pass it along

 :oops:   (http://www.pokernews.com/i/xsmiles/labas.gif) Hi gang..
PS.. I remembered the IMG tags this time  :wink:


Oldfart - they are posted in the Monkey Lounge


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 08:45:50 PM
If Paulus was not directly involved, and he and Nadira are to be believed( rolling eyes here)...the window of opportunity is 1:00ish till 5:00ish. 4 hours. This is a rough estimate. However, if Paulus were to not be telling the truth about when he awakened J and when J left for school etc, then the window of opportunity expands.

Just thinking out loud, not sure of my point :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 08:46:44 PM
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 08:48:09 PM
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 08:49:58 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


well it's why I wonder about who else was involved in this type of activity... Dompig?  all of ALE... did they never believe the women or assume that they ended up crack houses because they had made sure of it?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 08:50:57 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I keep wondering what favors were called in to protect the son of the judge. I would like to know things that happened before Paulus ever got to Aruba, his history, the cases he had influence over. I personally think that would open a huge can of worms and explain why all this for a few punks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 08:51:07 PM
Ok I never make much sense.. but I am really struggling tonight...  :roll:

did that last post make any sense to any one else?? :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 25, 2007, 08:54:15 PM
After being drugged in CnC's by Joran buying her a drink from that special bottle, Natalee had little clue within a few minutes as to what was really happening.  I tend to think as AZ does that she was planning to return with her friends until the "grab" happened.  She was targeted and they knew just what to do and how to go about making it happen.  She thought she was getting in a taxi and that Joran was going with her back to the hotel.  He had told others he was a tourist as well.  I don't think that is such a far fetched idea as the one I had last night about GVC.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: greeneyedlady on July 25, 2007, 08:54:57 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
I am so saddened to hear from GEL that both her brother and sister were in a terrible car accident. There is a post in the prayer thread .

Here is a link to light a candle.........group is SM.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=sm



Thank You BB-I wrote a small update in the lounge payer forum.All prayers will be appreciated.You are all so kind.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 08:55:03 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I think the coverup became so large that it took on a life of its own.  Eventually, it wasn't just a coverup of Natalee's death and disposal, but of the crime and corruption that is woven throughout the island, their justice system, their finances, their government, even their lifestyles.  When Paulus put the coverup in motion, he pulled in Karen Janssen, members of the ALE, the judiciary, as well as friends and family.  

Then, the tourism industry became involved because of the media attention.  They didn't want the seamy, ugly side of Aruba exposed, as it was in the media.  The drug trade, the gambling, the money laundering all become highly visible and condemned features of the Happy Island.  Their mafia ties were bandied about and the Americans saw more than just the white sand of Palm Beach and the hotels and casinos.  They saw the drugs, the poverty, the inept and corrupt government, the ties with organized crime, the lack of respect for children and women, the whole morally depraved way of life on the Happy Island.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  

This whole thing blew up, right out of their control and onto our TV screens.  It couldn't be denied, so Aruba lied and lied and lied.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 08:55:42 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


well it's why I wonder about who else was involved in this type of activity... Dompig?  all of ALE... did they never believe the women or assume that they ended up crack houses because they had made sure of it?


IMO that was the ALE's typical response. They knew what was going, but my unfortunate gut feeling is that they never expected any missing girl to ever show up. Let alone their family to arrive within hours. You can read into that what you want, but I believe there was something BIG and very sinister going on. JMHO


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"

Rob... did your friend know who the other bondia's were?  I would love to know that for a fact...


he didn't even know any of this was going on. He was in the dark about all the online stuff.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 08:58:12 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Peeking back in
Semi  O/T

I tried search for BT*  to find any SockMonkey updates and came up with nothing :shock:   then Tried Oldf* and got hits..  :?
Just thought I would pass it along

 :oops:   (http://www.pokernews.com/i/xsmiles/labas.gif) Hi gang..
PS.. I remembered the IMG tags this time  :wink:


Oldfart - they are posted in the Monkey Lounge

klaasend
found them and the Language translations in the LCD  but found it od that search did not have any hits (... behind the curtain updates ?)
BB
Thank you posting the link to the candles


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 09:00:35 PM
thx rob... I still think ANITA  was one of them


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:00:37 PM
Aruba did not fare well under the hot lights of the media.  They sent Ruben Trappenburg and Arlene to tell us about the good intentions of the authorities.  We didn't buy it.  They dissembled and lied and tried it again.  The more they covered up, the more the coverup had to be maintained.  It grew and grew.  When Dompig said one thing, then someone else denied and corrected him.  When a confession was made, they announced it and then it was denied.  It went all the way to Oduber and Rudy Croes--no one knew what they other was doing and they all ran around like keystone cops.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 09:00:37 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:00:57 PM
Oldfart -  you of all people should know that you need more than "BT", more than 2 letters for a search.  If you had typed in BT* you would have found them.  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:01:17 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I think the coverup became so large that it took on a life of its own.  Eventually, it wasn't just a coverup of Natalee's death and disposal, but of the crime and corruption that is woven throughout the island, their justice system, their finances, their government, even their lifestyles.  When Paulus put the coverup in motion, he pulled in Karen Janssen, members of the ALE, the judiciary, as well as friends and family.  

Then, the tourism industry became involved because of the media attention.  They didn't want the seamy, ugly side of Aruba exposed, as it was in the media.  The drug trade, the gambling, the money laundering all become highly visible and condemned features of the Happy Island.  Their mafia ties were bandied about and the Americans saw more than just the white sand of Palm Beach and the hotels and casinos.  They saw the drugs, the poverty, the inept and corrupt government, the ties with organized crime, the lack of respect for children and women, the whole morally depraved way of life on the Happy Island.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  

This whole thing blew up, right out of their control and onto our TV screens.  It couldn't be denied, so Aruba lied and lied and lied.


Can't disagree. but was the coverup regarding just Joran or other people and things going on that the incident coul have brought into the light? Just thinking out loud again. All of your points are very astute and on the money IMO.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 09:01:58 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thx rob... I still think ANITA  was one of them


totally possible.. all someone needs is the log in and password and if 5 people had it... well, she could too.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:02:09 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.


Anna - I believe it is fact.  It's information that KJ was holding back.  There is a front page post on it..I'll go find it for you.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:02:32 PM
Anna, this came out when the Aruban Judge denied Paulus' bid for compensation.  Klaas probably has the original document.  I could find it, but it would take me a while.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 09:04:53 PM
I would like to know what time the last phone call Paulus made that morning. To me that solves a lot of the case.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 25, 2007, 09:05:14 PM
Hello Monkeys!

I think I will read back a bit.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.


Anna - I believe it is fact.  It's information that KJ was holding back.  There is a front page post on it..I'll go find it for you.


Thanks Klass! I also remembered that but didn't know if it was rumor or fact. Question: Are the FP posts archived and in a place to read or will they be? TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 25, 2007, 09:06:30 PM
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 09:06:42 PM
great discussions but I have to get out of here... good night monkeys.

keep the faith... eventually light wins over darkness...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: "shadow"


Can't disagree. but was the coverup regarding just Joran or other people and things going on that the incident coul have brought into the light? Just thinking out loud again. All of your points are very astute and on the money IMO.


The coverup started with Joran because it was put into motion by PVDS.  Joran was, and is, his main concern.  The others were brought into it because they had to be involved.  I do not believe this is PVDS's first attempt at dancing on the line between legal and illegal.  He has a history of working within the law, but manipulating circumstances to his own favor.  He frequents casinos known to launder drug money.  His legal background could provide services that people who break the law successfully need.  I'm speculating here, but I do believe PVDS is a very slimey dude.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 09:08:42 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.


Anna - I believe it is fact.  It's information that KJ was holding back.  There is a front page post on it..I'll go find it for you.


right this HAD to come out when deciding if he was getting the money.. and then of course he got his ass handed to him in front of the new judicial candidates... OHHHH that was RICH!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:09:47 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


It does sound like new cases that are not already known, doesn't it?  More missing and unidentified in Aruba.  Perhaps the body washed up this week is one of them.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 25, 2007, 09:11:22 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


That is mind boggling, even tho it shouldn't be.  :shock:  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:13:29 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Oldfart -  you of all people should know that you need more than "BT", more than 2 letters for a search.  If you had typed in BT* you would have found them.  :wink:


Klaasend
I did BT* and even B*  and made sure I had it in the "Search for Author" box...
I just did it again and still nothing ... Honest.. Monkey
???


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:13:55 PM
For an entire society to be so corrupt and complicit in that corruption, there needs to exist a judiciary as well as a law enforcement that is bought and under the control of the leader of the corruption.  Aruba's government has long been owned by a corrupt regime.  This comes from the top down:  Oduber, Rudy Croes, and other ministers who participate in robbing the Aruban people of the lifestyle they deserve.  Unfortunately, island paradises with poorly educated natives are easily overtaken by organized crime which joins hands with the local government, in this case the Dutch.  This has been going on for generations on Aruba.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 09:15:56 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I think the coverup became so large that it took on a life of its own.  Eventually, it wasn't just a coverup of Natalee's death and disposal, but of the crime and corruption that is woven throughout the island, their justice system, their finances, their government, even their lifestyles.  When Paulus put the coverup in motion, he pulled in Karen Janssen, members of the ALE, the judiciary, as well as friends and family.  

Then, the tourism industry became involved because of the media attention.  They didn't want the seamy, ugly side of Aruba exposed, as it was in the media.  The drug trade, the gambling, the money laundering all become highly visible and condemned features of the Happy Island.  Their mafia ties were bandied about and the Americans saw more than just the white sand of Palm Beach and the hotels and casinos.  They saw the drugs, the poverty, the inept and corrupt government, the ties with organized crime, the lack of respect for children and women, the whole morally depraved way of life on the Happy Island.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  

This whole thing blew up, right out of their control and onto our TV screens.  It couldn't be denied, so Aruba lied and lied and lied.


Can't disagree. but was the coverup regarding just Joran or other people and things going on that the incident coul have brought into the light? Just thinking out loud again. All of your points are very astute and on the money IMO.

Not just Joran, but other people and things going on, IMHO


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Easy
What is the "Doe Network" and did they list the missing persons ??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.


Anna - I believe it is fact.  It's information that KJ was holding back.  There is a front page post on it..I'll go find it for you.


Link to the front page post:

http://tinyurl.com/27xaf6

PAUL VAN DER SLOOT HAD TWO PERSONAL CONTACTS WITH NATALEE THE NIGHT SHE DISAPPEARED
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN) On the 13th of  February 2007, the Superior Court dictated sentence against Paul van der Sloot in the case that he appealed with regards to the damages that his person as well as his family members asked for, seeing that in the Primary Court (Court of First Instance) Paul van der Sloot alone (no one else in his family) got a reward of 40,000 guilders for damages and 1500 guilders to cover the costs of the lawyers, court clerks, etc.
 
The sentence of the Superior Court fell like a bomb on Paul van der Sloot and his defence attorney because, according to the attorney, the Court made use of informations that do not agree with the truth.
 
The Court dictated that Paul van der Sloot fetched Joran and Natalee at the McDonald Palm Beach branch and took the two of them to the Holiday Inn, according to declarations by witnesses and also informations obtained from a phone tap carried out by the police.
 
Until recently, this key information was not known in the press and apparently only by the Police and Dept. of Justice.
 
The whole case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway gets a different twist now that the information has come out from no less than the Superior Court, and in which mention is made of the declarations of witnesses and a phone tap that show or give an indication that Paul van der Sloot had on two occasions personal contact with Natalee during the night that she disappeared.
 
Mention is made that, according to one or more official reports of the phone tap and also the declaration of Paul van der Sloot himself, that Paul fetched Joran and Natalee at McDonald and took them to the Holiday Inn.
 
Based on this information, the judicial authorities and the police had at that time a justified basis to arrest Paul van der Sloot based on different suspicions.
 
According to the Superior Court, Paul van der Sloot himself is guilty, he made possible or caused (depends how every one interprets the grammar in the sentence of the Court’s) himself to be arrested and that Aruba cannot be held responsible for the damages that he suffered and for which he was demanding damages, which he won in First Instance, but appealed to get more, and now has lost everything.
 
In the sentence there are various points and aspects that brought a different view on the Natalee Holloway case and that in the coming days will be analyzed, but the most important information is the matter of fetching Natalee and Joran at the McDonald, Palm Beach, and also that Paul had on two occasions personal contacts with Natalee on the night that she disappeared.
 
The cardinal question now is: what did the police authorities hear on the tapped phone of Paul van der Sloot, and the next question is hotter still: at what time, under what circumstances, and where did Paul van der Sloot as the father of Joran van der Sloot  have contacts with Natalee Holloway the night she disappeared?
 
If the Superior Court says that in the official report mention is made that Paul van der Sloot fetched Joran and Natalee on the aforementioned night at McDonald Palm Beach, that is the first contact, but where did the second contact take place?

On the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, Paul van der Sloot met again with Natalee after he left Joran with Natalee at the Holiday Inn? If that is the case, then where and at what time did Natalee disappear that night?
 
In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.
 
That’s why it is important to get clarity on the two occasions that Paul van der Sloot had personal contacts with Natalee on the night in question and where and under what circumstances they occurred.
 
The lawyer for Paul van der Sloot denies that Paul declared that he fetched Joran and Natalee at McDonald Palm Beach, and that he had contacts with Natalee the night she disappeared, but the Superior Court of Justice based its sentence on the information presented by the interim Attorney General of Aruba.
 
Now, who is lying and who is telling the truth?

I believe there was another article posted by MF that mentioned the 4am time.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "shadow"


Can't disagree. but was the coverup regarding just Joran or other people and things going on that the incident coul have brought into the light? Just thinking out loud again. All of your points are very astute and on the money IMO.


The coverup started with Joran because it was put into motion by PVDS.  Joran was, and is, his main concern.  The others were brought into it because they had to be involved.  I do not believe this is PVDS's first attempt at dancing on the line between legal and illegal.  He has a history of working within the law, but manipulating circumstances to his own favor.  He frequents casinos known to launder drug money.  His legal background could provide services that people who break the law successfully need.  I'm speculating here, but I do believe PVDS is a very slimey dude.


Yeah, PVDS and Anita are what I like to refer to as Shady & Vague   :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Easy
What is the "Doe Network" and did they list the missing persons ??


The Doe Network is for people unidentified OF,


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:18:44 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
For an entire society to be so corrupt and complicit in that corruption, there needs to exist a judiciary as well as a law enforcement that is bought and under the control of the leader of the corruption.  Aruba's government has long been owned by a corrupt regime.  This comes from the top down:  Oduber, Rudy Croes, and other ministers who participate in robbing the Aruban people of the lifestyle they deserve.  Unfortunately, island paradises with poorly educated natives are easily overtaken by organized crime which joins hands with the local government, in this case the Dutch.  This has been going on for generations on Aruba.


Was it Oduber or Croes or someone else that was all pissed off becuase someone questioned the govt.. Or am I thinking of something that did not happen  :?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:18:47 PM
The island is a hub for the drug traffic from South America to North America.  This is facilitated by a corrupt government and a business environment that supports it.  The casinos, for example, are the perfect businesses to launder the drug money.  The island banks are uncontrolled and the perfect vehicle to move the money from North America to South America.  The government and business leaders love the bribes and payoffs so they look the other way to allow this to continue.  It's their livelihood, after all, because Aruba is so deeply in debt that their meager tourism is not going to fill the tax coffers.  

So, you see, the pieces were all in place for a very effective, very corrupt, coverup of the death of an innocent American girl.  We would probably not even have learned about all of this if the American media had not invaded the island and the blogs picked up the story, causing all of us to research and delve into the island's business and history.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Sue on July 25, 2007, 09:20:12 PM
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 09:20:48 PM
Klaas- the fact that the polis and justice knew about the calls and so DID Paulus, because he had all records relating to his case tells me that he thought that he was going to get away with this aspect of the case.

He didn't have a certain someone to protect him it seems.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 09:20:52 PM
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Sue on July 25, 2007, 09:22:37 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.



that is mighty strange if you ask me, But everything is strange about this case


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


It's my understanding that PVDS's phone was tapped and they intercepted him saying that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am.  Doesn't make it true.

Edited to add:  Could have been a partial truth.  He could have picked up Joran and a dead Natalee.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:23:26 PM
How strange.  I find she gave them WINE SAMPLES!?

G€˘ Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh
G€˘ Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (wine samples)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=678&sid=b2c7778fe081babad1e2d5eefa92b888

Wonder which one is right?   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 25, 2007, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Easy
What is the "Doe Network" and did they list the missing persons ??


http://doenetwork.org/


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 25, 2007, 09:23:55 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
How strange.  I find she gave them WINE SAMPLES!?

G€˘ Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh
G€˘ Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (wine samples)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=678&sid=b2c7778fe081babad1e2d5eefa92b888

Wonder which one is right?   :lol:


Translation error - it is urine


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "AZLady"
How strange.  I find she gave them WINE SAMPLES!?

G€˘ Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh
G€˘ Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (wine samples)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=678&sid=b2c7778fe081babad1e2d5eefa92b888

Wonder which one is right?   :lol:


Translation error - it is urine


ha ha ha  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:26:03 PM
Just strikes me funny that urine can be mistranslated to "wine."   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:26:51 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
For an entire society to be so corrupt and complicit in that corruption, there needs to exist a judiciary as well as a law enforcement that is bought and under the control of the leader of the corruption.  Aruba's government has long been owned by a corrupt regime.  This comes from the top down:  Oduber, Rudy Croes, and other ministers who participate in robbing the Aruban people of the lifestyle they deserve.  Unfortunately, island paradises with poorly educated natives are easily overtaken by organized crime which joins hands with the local government, in this case the Dutch.  This has been going on for generations on Aruba.


You are absolutely right.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:27:26 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Just strikes me funny that urine can be mistranslated to "wine."   :lol:

Oldfart used a program that reads PDF (uncopyable)  files and turns it into regular text.  There are some errors in the transition between PDF and text, lol  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: IndyDan on July 25, 2007, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
For an entire society to be so corrupt and complicit in that corruption, there needs to exist a judiciary as well as a law enforcement that is bought and under the control of the leader of the corruption.  Aruba's government has long been owned by a corrupt regime.  This comes from the top down:  Oduber, Rudy Croes, and other ministers who participate in robbing the Aruban people of the lifestyle they deserve.  Unfortunately, island paradises with poorly educated natives are easily overtaken by organized crime which joins hands with the local government, in this case the Dutch.  This has been going on for generations on Aruba.


This is what I"ve been trying to say for so long, you said it well AZ. How does a whole country, a whole society - toe the line of everyday drug infestation, murder, rampant porn - how do the decent people of Aruba tolerate this.
It's truly a ceaspool of filth and crime, and the average people just exitst.
Poor Aruba, they'll forever be owned by Natalee.  Even the ugly misfits will always think Natalee when they hear Aruba.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:29:38 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


Likely.  She may have been barely conscious.  Remember, I think it was about 3 AM or so that Paulus (or someone) was searching the VDS computer for drug information.  Was she unconscious then and they suspected overdose?  Did Paulus take Joran and an unconscious Natalee somewhere (Lorenzo's?) and then tell someone he picked them up at McDonalds to cover his tracks?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:31:19 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Easy
What is the "Doe Network" and did they list the missing persons ??


The Doe Network is for people unidentified OF,


Rob  being real dumb here  but if people are missing how can they be unidentified ??  If you have a body that cannot be identified  then that to me would be unidentified  that they attempt to match to missing person's reports  :?
Sorry ... cornfused as usual


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


It's my understanding that PVDS's phone was tapped and they intercepted him saying that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am.  Doesn't make it true.

Edited to add:  Could have been a partial truth.  He could have picked up Joran and a dead Natalee.


I have wondered the same thing, but how did Joran get to MCD's with a dead Natalee? Who took him if he didn't have a car? I may have forgotten facts that would explain this . . . any ideas??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 25, 2007, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: "IndyDan"
Quote from: "AZLady"
For an entire society to be so corrupt and complicit in that corruption, there needs to exist a judiciary as well as a law enforcement that is bought and under the control of the leader of the corruption.  Aruba's government has long been owned by a corrupt regime.  This comes from the top down:  Oduber, Rudy Croes, and other ministers who participate in robbing the Aruban people of the lifestyle they deserve.  Unfortunately, island paradises with poorly educated natives are easily overtaken by organized crime which joins hands with the local government, in this case the Dutch.  This has been going on for generations on Aruba.


This is what I"ve been trying to say for so long, you said it well AZ. How does a whole country, a whole society - toe the line of everyday drug infestation, murder, rampant porn - how do the decent people of Aruba tolerate this.
It's truly a ceaspool of filth and crime, and the average people just exitst.
Poor Aruba, they'll forever be owned by Natalee.  Even the ugly misfits will always think Natalee when they hear Aruba.


Until Natalee's disappearance, we didn't even know where Aruba was or what went on there.  However, organized crime and the drug trade took over this island a long time ago.  The TNI articles detail the history of Aruba's mafia ties.  While the mafia families have made a visible exit, the crime and corruption continues in a more modern manner.  This is still organized crime, managed long distance with digital money laundering, highly lucrative porn businesses, rampant drug trafficking and online and casino gambling.  The decent people of Aruba?  I think they left a long time ago or they have learned to adapt.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 25, 2007, 09:34:36 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


Likely.  She may have been barely conscious.  Remember, I think it was about 3 AM or so that Paulus (or someone) was searching the VDS computer for drug information.  Was she unconscious then and they suspected overdose?  Did Paulus take Joran and an unconscious Natalee somewhere (Lorenzo's?) and then tell someone he picked them up at McDonalds to cover his tracks?


Wasn't Paulus searching the web for drugs & alcohol on that Monday night right before 8 pm when he was supposed to be taking or picking up Joran from Racqyuet Club  who he knew or did not know was out gambling that Monday night?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Easy
What is the "Doe Network" and did they list the missing persons ??


The Doe Network is for people unidentified OF,


Rob  being real dumb here  but if people are missing how can they be unidentified ??  If you have a body that cannot be identified  then that to me would be unidentified  that they attempt to match to missing person's reports  :?
Sorry ... cornfused as usual


hold on... I have a post from a friend that does exactly that... I'll get it..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:38:22 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


It's my understanding that PVDS's phone was tapped and they intercepted him saying that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am.  Doesn't make it true.

Edited to add:  Could have been a partial truth.  He could have picked up Joran and a dead Natalee.


I have wondered the same thing, but how did Joran get to MCD's with a dead Natalee? Who took him if he didn't have a car? I may have forgotten facts that would explain this . . . any ideas??


Just because PVDS said McDonalds does not make it true.  McDonald is not far from the hotels and the Fisherman's Huts.  PVDS could have said McDonalds because he thinks someone spotted him in that area.  McDonalds itself would have been closed.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 25, 2007, 09:38:30 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


Likely.  She may have been barely conscious.  Remember, I think it was about 3 AM or so that Paulus (or someone) was searching the VDS computer for drug information.  Was she unconscious then and they suspected overdose?  Did Paulus take Joran and an unconscious Natalee somewhere (Lorenzo's?) and then tell someone he picked them up at McDonalds to cover his tracks?


I don't think that search was until the next night.  But, I believe the computer times had been dinged  and so I don't know what to think.

To add to your scenario:  I don't know if they drove around first or in the middle or when.  I believe the Kalpo car was in motion and the gardner saw Joran and others.  Natalee may have been originally hurt by the rocks or Arashi.  She was taken to VDS and I'm thinking the porn was put on as backdrop film during attack at house. I still believe she was hurt trying to get through the gate (after attempting to get a call off).  The talk around the pool was that night because that is where it happened. IMO


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


Likely.  She may have been barely conscious.  Remember, I think it was about 3 AM or so that Paulus (or someone) was searching the VDS computer for drug information.  Was she unconscious then and they suspected overdose?  Did Paulus take Joran and an unconscious Natalee somewhere (Lorenzo's?) and then tell someone he picked them up at McDonalds to cover his tracks?


Wasn't Paulus searching the web for drugs & alcohol on that Monday night right before 8 pm when he was supposed to be taking or picking up Joran from Racqyuet Club  who he knew or did not know was out gambling that Monday night?


I distinctly remember that it was stated or known that someone at the VDS home was researching the topic of overdose online, but I don't know the time. Was it confirmed that it was PVDS? IMO the time of the search is telling and adds to the timeline. Does anyone know the specifics of the overdose information being read online?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 09:39:42 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


very well could have been. there was a case in ME where the murderer drove through burger king with the person he murdered in the passenger seat, the drive thru camera is what caught him eventually...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 09:40:53 PM
MARY X MAKES A DIFFERENCE
Over the last two years I have been blessed to meet some amazing people. People who put aside their own lives in the hopes of helping others.

When Natalee Holloway became a CRIME VICTIM on Aruba many people used their technology skills to help the Holloway's and the Twitty's. Most of us had little knowledge of just how vast the internet is and learned those skills on the fly. We collectively gathered the information on the suspects and found a tremendous amount of info in her case.

Few people are as skilled as Grande and Chicago_510. In fact, their 'KUNG-FU' is very powerful.

Did you know there is another way to use this technology?

TECHNOCRIMINOLOGY 201.

MARY X OPENS PANDORA'S BOX IN THE HOPES OF HELPING GRIEVING FAMILIES.

MARY X'S STORY.

I am a mom and my youngest graduates this year. A few years back he wanted a computer and I asked him to show me the basics and he did. I managed to get around from site to site and landed on a few missing persons sites and some of the story's struck me because it must be so hard for the people who have a missing child or loved one just to get up each day. I don't think I could do it.

So I decided to try and match some of the unidentified people in morgues to those missing people because I also believe that when people are born they are given names by someone who loves them and when the person dies it should be that they die with the same names given them at birth and be put to rest by their family's and not listed as a John or Jane Doe in a freezer someplace-So that would be the WHY part. Now on to the HOW part.

I bop around from morgue to morgue on the internet and some will list clothing worn at the time or list physical markings. Others will show actual photos and that is the HOW I do it part.

I have contacted a few coroners in different parts of the country and have also contacted some police departments and made a few friends, but I have run into a few also that I don't think could find themselves or some that I believe wear there uniforms to bed because they love their badge so much. I have met a few that are
thankful for the help and are willing to listen to a theory regardless of how far fetched it may sound, those are the ones that get solved.

WHAT MOTIVATES ME?

The fact there are so many people missing loved ones that have no answers as to why this happened and where there loved ones are.

These families of "the missing" wake up every day and go to bed each night with those same questions on there minds and from the tv shows I have watched and the many articles I have read each day is the same over and over again because with out answers they can not move on.

One mother put it this way, it's like each day is a repeat of the day it happened she also added that not knowing is the hardest part because you can't even think of closure until you have an answer. It is family's and parents that motivate me to
find these people.

I look in the areas that they don't want to think about - morgues. I try to see if I can match clothing, dates, birthmarks, prior surgeries, prior broken bones, breast enlargements. Anything that may single out a victim of crime or accident victim to those of the people reported missing.

I do it to help these families find closure so they can begin the healing process and not have to wake up each day wondering will today be the day police get a lead? Will today be the day he or she comes home? Each night they go to bed wondering will tomorrow be the day I get answers?

Some people last saw there loved one so long ago they have given up hope of any closure at all and just go on existing in the world. They have had birthdays and holidays go by that are only enjoyed by a memory they have of the last one spent together at a happier time when they were not in this nightmare and unfortunately that is the way some will continue to live.

I believe in miracles and the fact that some have come home alive and healthy after years of being missing is proof that miracles do exist, but sadly not everyone gets one. But still, knowing that miracles do happen should help them to continue to pray and hope that maybe it will happen for them to. I was raised to love people-all people, not just the ones of my same skin color or faith. I was raised to treat people the way I would like to be treated. I was raised to believe that God not only judges you for your sins but he also judges you for what you do for others. It is those values that make finding missing people my PASSION.

If you have or know someone that is missing a loved one it is very important that dental records are made available and that DNA (preferably from parents) is entered into Codis.

To help you understand the importance of these 2 facts I am including a link explaining the use of dental information in missing persons and unidentified body cases. ABFO Guidelines for the Use of Dental Information in Missing Person and Unidentified Body Cases

For more information on helping to find the missing or identifying unidentified remains see THE DOE NEWTORK This is an excellent site with many resources.



Mary, thank you so much for helping the Families of those MISSING to get the conclusion they all seek. It is people like you that make the world go round. Thank you also for sharing your Passion and giving us all a new understanding of how the Internet can be a tool of HELP.

Please stay tuned for more from Mary X as she makes the discoveries that make a difference.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 09:40:58 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


It's my understanding that PVDS's phone was tapped and they intercepted him saying that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am.  Doesn't make it true.

Edited to add:  Could have been a partial truth.  He could have picked up Joran and a dead Natalee.


I have wondered the same thing, but how did Joran get to MCD's with a dead Natalee? Who took him if he didn't have a car? I may have forgotten facts that would explain this . . . any ideas??


....it couldn't have been mcDonalds, had to have been somewhere close.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


I just found this in there too
Quote
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain
Name/Title/Description: Interview with Tracey Allan
Date: 06/09/2005
Pages: 1

Same place Huntington NY..  just seems odd .. to me


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:42:47 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


It's my understanding that PVDS's phone was tapped and they intercepted him saying that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am.  Doesn't make it true.

Edited to add:  Could have been a partial truth.  He could have picked up Joran and a dead Natalee.


I have wondered the same thing, but how did Joran get to MCD's with a dead Natalee? Who took him if he didn't have a car? I may have forgotten facts that would explain this . . . any ideas??


Just because PVDS said McDonalds does not make it true.  McDonald is not far from the hotels and the Fisherman's Huts.  PVDS could have said McDonalds because he thinks someone spotted him in that area.  McDonalds itself would have been closed.


Thanks Klass! . . . it makes more sense that it was another cover story, especially considering they were closed. I wasn't sure if MCD's drive-thrus were open 24 hrs in Aruba like some in the US.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:44:03 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
How strange.  I find she gave them WINE SAMPLES!?

G€˘ Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh
G€˘ Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (wine samples)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=678&sid=b2c7778fe081babad1e2d5eefa92b888

Wonder which one is right?   :lol:


AzLady
I checked the scanned PDF   Urine is correct...
What can I say the PDF  converter made some mistakes  and missed in the proofing :oops:   Sorry


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


I just found this in there too
Quote
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain
Name/Title/Description: Interview with Tracey Allan
Date: 06/09/2005
Pages: 1

Same place Huntington NY..  just seems odd .. to me


I believe the location is the location of the FBI office maybe?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:48:46 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


It's my understanding that PVDS's phone was tapped and they intercepted him saying that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am.  Doesn't make it true.

Edited to add:  Could have been a partial truth.  He could have picked up Joran and a dead Natalee.


I have wondered the same thing, but how did Joran get to MCD's with a dead Natalee? Who took him if he didn't have a car? I may have forgotten facts that would explain this . . . any ideas??


....it couldn't have been mcDonalds, had to have been somewhere close.


So, does anyone know what is close to that MCDs that could have been where they were going?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:49:32 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Easy
What is the "Doe Network" and did they list the missing persons ??


http://doenetwork.org/


thanks Easy


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:50:44 PM
Shadow - I'm pretty certain McDonalds closes at 11pm in Aruba


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 09:51:15 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


It's my understanding that PVDS's phone was tapped and they intercepted him saying that he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4am.  Doesn't make it true.

Edited to add:  Could have been a partial truth.  He could have picked up Joran and a dead Natalee.



I am reading that article over and over trying to internalize this.  So OK, he SAID this and so did witnesses but they could have been lying.  IMO, I have never thought Natalee survived to see daylight and have to wonder if she was still alive at 4 a.m.  

So he and his wire taps which could also be lies are just saying this but since it was his own claim, he gets no $$$.  Have to wonder what he was thinking as Joran was claiming to have already walked home, etc. by them  Guess they just didn't have their stories straight yet.

But to our knowledge, no one actually saw them there or ever saw Natalee after she got into the car with the J2K, right?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 25, 2007, 09:52:19 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


Sue - I have a scenario in mind about this (which someone else may have posted by now). If I'm not mistaken, this person also had a bottle of wine, possibly a partial bottle, that she brought along for testing. (I'm assuming female.) I think she returned home from Aruba, thought she had been drugged on the last night she was there, and went straight to the FBI (or maybe via local police dept.). This is something she might not have done had she not heard about the Holloway case.

I INFER this from the same statements you've been reading. I'm pretty sure there was a lab test for urine as well as the contents of a wine bottle, and I think she requested it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


I just found this in there too
Quote
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain
Name/Title/Description: Interview with Tracey Allan
Date: 06/09/2005
Pages: 1

Same place Huntington NY..  just seems odd .. to me


I know there was some mention or rumor at some time that the VDS had family or property in the US. Can anyone confirm this and if so, is it in this area of NY?? Just wondering. Then again, could have been two friends who were in Aruba together. Very curious . . . Anyone know??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 25, 2007, 09:53:35 PM
shadow

When Joran was at the HI, he was picked up at McDonalds.  Maybe it's easier for cars to get in and out.  Maybe the casino workers (Guido) have to park their cars there.  Maybe some people were taking a walk and saw them drive by or pull in because someone was sick to their stomach.  Who knows.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 09:53:39 PM
Thank You Ms Marple... that makes perfect sense.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:54:47 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Shadow - I'm pretty certain McDonalds closes at 11pm in Aruba


Thanks Klass!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 09:55:00 PM
Maybe we should get dana to do an interview with the doe network people?  I think that would be interesting...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 09:56:27 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Thank You Ms Marple... that makes perfect sense.


Are you saying someone traveled from Aruba to the states with a partial bottle of wine in their posession?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:56:41 PM
Pant... whew.. Pant
I think I'm caught up for the moment
? Who is Tracy Allen

? has / could some one please try a search for postsers with a name that is B*  and let me know if you have any results  :?
TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 25, 2007, 09:57:58 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
How strange.  I find she gave them WINE SAMPLES!?

G€˘ Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh
G€˘ Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (wine samples)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=678&sid=b2c7778fe081babad1e2d5eefa92b888

Wonder which one is right?   :lol:


I promise not to make a Shango reference on this one...I think I promise.  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 09:58:08 PM
McDonalds is near the Holiday Inn

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/LionsDenVDS6.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 09:58:45 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Pant... whew.. Pant
I think I'm caught up for the moment
? Who is Tracy Allen

? has / could some one please try a search for postsers with a name that is B*  and let me know if you have any results  :?
TIA

Sorry should have been Tracy Allan


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Thank You Ms Marple... that makes perfect sense.


Are you saying someone traveled from Aruba to the states with a partial bottle of wine in their posession?

would have still been possible back then.. wouldn't it?  I know I have traveled with wine as a carry-on before heading home for holidays, etc.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 25, 2007, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

<snip>

.


It was Claudio Eldridge (sp?) who backed up Beth et al on the 4:00 a.m. pickup time. It's in the documents, a letter, pertaining to the NY case. Although the letter may have been written NOT in connection with that case. Of course klaas would know exactly ...

(Sorry, just remember being really floored that SOMEONE on Aruba backed it up, and I don't think I'll forget that name ...)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
shadow

When Joran was at the HI, he was picked up at McDonalds.  Maybe it's easier for cars to get in and out.  Maybe the casino workers (Guido) have to park their cars there.  Maybe some people were taking a walk and saw them drive by or pull in because someone was sick to their stomach.  Who knows.


Did not realize they were so close. Although, seems weird or unlikely that hotel/casino workers and/or visitors need to park at MCDs. Then again I have never been to Aruba so I have no idea.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:02:09 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


I just found this in there too
Quote
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain
Name/Title/Description: Interview with Tracey Allan
Date: 06/09/2005
Pages: 1

Same place Huntington NY..  just seems odd .. to me


Hey all ya'll!

The file number looks interesting........

Goodnight!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 25, 2007, 10:02:35 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Maybe we should get dana to do an interview with the doe network people?  I think that would be interesting...


Mrs Red- please do..

MsMarple- could it be possible that Haley used the bottle to preserve a sample while still on Aruba?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:04:31 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "AZLady"
How strange.  I find she gave them WINE SAMPLES!?

G€˘ Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh
G€˘ Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (wine samples)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=678&sid=b2c7778fe081babad1e2d5eefa92b888

Wonder which one is right?   :lol:


I promise not to make a Shango reference on this one...I think I promise.  :wink:


Please do Lala's Mom!  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 10:06:12 PM
I just think if she were dead, that there would have been another pickup point rather than a lit McDonalds. Picking up an inebriated/passed out girl, at Mc D, perhaps.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:06:21 PM
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


 :D  :D  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.



bartenders at CnC's on joran's $20 drink...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:07:41 PM
If the crime scene (battery, rape) took place away from the VanderSloot residence, Paulus would have been called by the boys. If Paulus came from his house to meet up with J2K, most likely he would have sent K2 away and handled the disposal with Joran only.  Natalee's body would have most likely been transferred from one vehicle to another. This is simply a cloudy area of the timeline.  Speculation could have any vehicle there: (a) Paulus' vehicle, (b) a real close friend's vehicle.  Would Paulus have known to keep forensic evidence out of one of his own vehicles? At that particular moment, however, he could never in his wildest dreams imagined that the ALE would allow forensics to disappear from his vehicle.

I think at some point that Paulus sent the Kalpoe's away and dealt with this with Joran only.  Paulus and Joran had a very important job to do.

Part of me can see that maybe a small (friends only) pool party / Joran's apartment party took place after CnC.  However, if Paulus was out and about between 3-7AM, that eliminates a pool party scenario for me somewhat.  Doublethink: Maybe Paulus wants people to think he was out and about (@McD) to steer theories away from the safe haven, which could turn out to be his own home.

Any ideas....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:08:38 PM
ala_gunslinger  :lol:  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 25, 2007, 10:09:10 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.


Easy
What is the "Doe Network" and did they list the missing persons ??


http://doenetwork.org/


thanks Easy


I just scanned through that site and hardly broke the surface, but it is extremely heart breaking to see all those faces.  Each has a story and a grieving family left behind.  Not sure I can spend much time reading through that one.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 10:09:14 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


I just found this in there too
Quote
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain
Name/Title/Description: Interview with Tracey Allan
Date: 06/09/2005
Pages: 1

Same place Huntington NY..  just seems odd .. to me


Hey all ya'll!

The file number looks interesting........

Goodnight!


(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/gaah-1.gif)
who is the person who's name is Red above (miss spelled it twice no)
Hi GunSlinger..  /  bye GunSlinger /
Drop in again sometime
Let us know what you find on that case #

Sorry just one of those nights where I just need to go collapse (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/db212351.gif)  in a bit


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:10:05 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
I just think if she were dead, that there would have been another pickup point rather than a lit McDonalds. Picking up an inebriated/passed out girl, at Mc D, perhaps.


I completely agree with you on this.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:10:08 PM
I am just so weary of all the lying and the lies.  Did not one person tell the truth about anything!

But then I guess that was the idea, to totally obfuscate everything so we would never be able to figure it out.

Paulus was prolly afraid he was seen sneaking home at 4 am from his gf house, the one he can't name as his alibi because people would be hurt.

 :evil:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 25, 2007, 10:10:21 PM
joran was picked up paulus

joran was ALONE


joran and crew had already taken Natalee somewhere to get rid of her body.

joran was left somewhere so he could come up with "another" story as
to where he was, on the beach, walking home, gambling somewhere else

TAKE YOUR PICK


then paulus was called


but paulus and joran had not gotten their TIMES fixed between the two of them


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 10:11:12 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
McDonalds is near the Holiday Inn

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/LionsDenVDS6.jpg)


McDonald's Aruba NV

Kamerlingh   Onnnesstraat 8          583-3766
LG Smith Boulevard                       586-1515
Sta Cruz  54B                               585-4525


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 10:12:55 PM
Hey ... I'm sorry about the wine reference out of the Scanned PDF to txt doc and not proofing it more..
If I had an edit button it would be gone...

Has any tried the search with posters names of B*
Just wondering
Thanks


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "klaasend"
McDonalds is near the Holiday Inn

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/LionsDenVDS6.jpg)


McDonald's Aruba NV

Kamerlingh   Onnnesstraat 8          583-3766
LG Smith Boulevard                       586-1515
Sta Cruz  54B                               585-4525


after have been there, my recollection is that McD is super close to the Holiday Inn, as in 1-2 min walk.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


 :D  :D  :D


It's so obvious.  Paulus was not looking for the cure, he was looking for the poison.  He had to make her die, fast, to protect his first legitimate son.  He was sloppy.

He is paying, and will take the fall.

JMHO


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 25, 2007, 10:17:23 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Thank You Ms Marple... that makes perfect sense.


Are you saying someone traveled from Aruba to the states with a partial bottle of wine in their posession?


Why not? Especially if she thought something had been added to it ... and planned to have it, as well as urine, tested. Just pack in a checked bag. (Pack really well, in multiple plastic bags, of course ... )

This is just speculation on my part, of course.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: "robots"
joran was picked up paulus

joran was ALONE


joran and crew had already taken Natalee somewhere to get rid of her body.

joran was left somewhere so he could come up with "another" story as
to where he was, on the beach, walking home, gambling somewhere else

TAKE YOUR PICK






then paulus was called


but paulus and joran had not gotten their TIMES fixed between the two of them



robots,

i agree. this makes sense that Joran was picked up solo by Paulus. Body was hidden and retrieved by the two of them after Joran was picked up.

Would all of this action eliminate the possibility that Natalee's demise took place at the VDS residence?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:18:53 PM
In this case....

WINE = URINE

It was a problem with the PDF converter that Oldfart used.  It is not wine, it is urine.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:19:06 PM
Klass!

Have I told you lately that you are an Eagle?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:19:35 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "robots"
joran was picked up paulus

joran was ALONE


joran and crew had already taken Natalee somewhere to get rid of her body.

joran was left somewhere so he could come up with "another" story as
to where he was, on the beach, walking home, gambling somewhere else

TAKE YOUR PICK

robots,

i agree. this makes sense that Joran was picked up solo by Paulus. Body was hidden and retrieved by the two of them after Joran was picked up.

Would all of this action eliminate the possibility that Natalee's demise took place at the VDS residence?



then paulus was called


but paulus and joran had not gotten their TIMES fixed between the two of them


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:20:11 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Klass!

Have I told you lately that you are an Eagle?


Thanks Gunslinger  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 25, 2007, 10:20:36 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


This has been part of my *gut* feelings from a long time ago.

I posted here about 2 months ago. I think time wise, the very same thoughts...for the very rich elders...I also strongly feel that these tapes were sold for very large sums....there is a tape/dvd of Natalees' last night in aruba somewhere...I'm still on page 4 trying to play catchup..

HELLO MONKIES....DON'T WASTE BANDWIDTH TO REPLY...I KNOW YOU'RE ALL HERE ;-)

Destiny :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


I just found this in there too
Quote
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain
Name/Title/Description: Interview with Tracey Allan
Date: 06/09/2005
Pages: 1

Same place Huntington NY..  just seems odd .. to me


Hey all ya'll!

The file number looks interesting........

Goodnight!


(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/gaah-1.gif)
who is the person who's name is Red above (miss spelled it twice no)
Hi GunSlinger..  /  bye GunSlinger /
Drop in again sometime
Let us know what you find on that case #

Sorry just one of those nights where I just need to go collapse (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/db212351.gif)  in a bit


Wanna compare ages?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 25, 2007, 10:21:34 PM
OF...i entered BT a lots of ways and it came up with nothing.

MsM..i was asking a question, not debating the issue. If something happened to the woman on her trip, she was smart to save the wine.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:21:53 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


 :D  :D  :D


It's so obvious.  Paulus was not looking for the cure, he was looking for the poison.  He had to make her die, fast, to protect his first legitimate son.  He was sloppy.

He is paying, and will take the fall.

JMHO


Couldn't have said it better myself.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:24:00 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Klass!

Have I told you lately that you are an Eagle?


Thanks Gunslinger  :lol:


And for those who do not know....

Eagles don't flock.

They have to be found one at a time!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:24:18 PM
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: igsigs on July 25, 2007, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: "msmarple"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

<snip>

.


It was Claudio Eldridge (sp?) who backed up Beth et al on the 4:00 a.m. pickup time. It's in the documents, a letter, pertaining to the NY case. Although the letter may have been written NOT in connection with that case. Of course klaas would know exactly ...

(Sorry, just remember being really floored that SOMEONE on Aruba backed it up, and I don't think I'll forget that name ...)

Yes, in the Vin DeSouza letter it does say that Claudio was the one who heard Paulus say 4am.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:25:08 PM
OF,

Tracey Allen is the woman jogger who was accosted by somebody at the Fisherman Hut area a couple of weeks before Natalee disappeared.

He tried to get her into his car, etc.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:25:44 PM
Quote from: "Destiny"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


This has been part of my *gut* feelings from a long time ago.

I posted here about 2 months ago. I think time wise, the very same thoughts...for the very rich elders...I also strongly feel that these tapes were sold for very large sums....there is a tape/dvd of Natalees' last night in aruba somewhere...I'm still on page 4 trying to play catchup..

HELLO MONKIES....DON'T WASTE BANDWIDTH TO REPLY...I KNOW YOU'RE ALL HERE ;-)

Destiny :wink:



Hi Destiny! My gut as well as other things have made me think this for a long time. I have my theories . . .


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:27:16 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:28:02 PM
OF,

Member name has to have three characters to search.  I remember poster DT never could be found on a search either.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:28:43 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


 :D  :D  :D


It's so obvious.  Paulus was not looking for the cure, he was looking for the poison.  He had to make her die, fast, to protect his first legitimate son.  He was sloppy.

He is paying, and will take the fall.

JMHO


Couldn't have said it better myself.


Is THE POISONED WINE OF BACCHUS a metaphor of some sort? I have never heard or seen anything regarding wine.

Also, I saw a poster reference bottles, containing drugs of some sort, found out back of CnC. I have never seen this before either.

I do not intend to put weird rumors out there, maybe I just missed part of a conversation or two.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:29:46 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.


Can we at least get a huge 'DUH!' on this one????


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 25, 2007, 10:29:54 PM
Did anyone see the article today in BonDia? It was very long and it was about the Winklaar guy that was arrested the same time as Lorenzo. No mention of LVR but the article was difficult to translate. I think it mentioned he had a medical condition or something?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:30:04 PM
I have always thought Natalee died at the Sloot compound.  Not sure what Paulus was doing out and about at 4 am if he was.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.


Can we at least get a huge 'DUH!' on this one????


You making fun of me?  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: "*******"
Did anyone see the article today in BonDia? It was very long and it was about the Winklaar guy that was arrested the same time as Lorenzo. No mention of LVR but the article was difficult to translate. I think it mentioned he had a medical condition or something?

I saw it and looked for Lorenzo's name.  Did see LVR so I didn't bother trying to translate.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:32:32 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.


Can we at least get a huge 'DUH!' on this one????


You making fun of me?  :lol:


Absolutely not!!!!!  

You should know me better!

I'm serious as a heart attack!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 25, 2007, 10:32:59 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "*******"
Did anyone see the article today in BonDia? It was very long and it was about the Winklaar guy that was arrested the same time as Lorenzo. No mention of LVR but the article was difficult to translate. I think it mentioned he had a medical condition or something?

I saw it and looked for Lorenzo's name.  Did see LVR so I didn't bother trying to translate.


Same here..I think it said he had a medical problem but Rudy Croes instructed him to stay at KIA...Not entirely sure..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:33:12 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.


Can we at least get a huge 'DUH!' on this one????


ala_gunslinger,

i appreciate your sarcasm here - but not everyone is convinced that this is the crime scene (100%). Some think it may be a distraction to divert away from the real scene, which may in fact be the VDS residence.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:33:26 PM
NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Man Drowns in Aruba and Washes Ashore … Why Didn’t Natalee Holloway, if she Drown?

http://tinyurl.com/yt6g33


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:33:42 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Edited to say . . . there may have been something on those rocks, but I don't feel it had anything to do with Natalee. It was too public . . . perhaps staged. Just thinking out loud.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
OF,

Tracey Allen is the woman jogger who was accosted by somebody at the Fisherman Hut area a couple of weeks before Natalee disappeared.

He tried to get her into his car, etc.

.


Thanks Anna  and you  are correct
You have to specify at least 3 characters + and * to do a search
:head-slap: :head-slap:   dumb old fart


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:33:59 PM
I think they were making a fake crime scene at the rocks to use to frame the security guards and got caught and had to go back and cover it up.

This is worse than any Mexican movie plot as far as being convoluted.  Is it really this complicated or have certain PTB made it appear to be far more than it really is?

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 25, 2007, 10:34:37 PM
I think Natalee was at the VDS home, too...but that doesn't mean something couldn't have happened at the rocks, too.

The timeline is so confusing, and we really don't know who is telling the truth, if anyone. As far as I'm concerned, the time between 1 a.m. on May 30, when Natalee was last seen at C&Cs, and the time Joran showed up at school the next day, is unaccounted for--we haven't gotten a straight story about what happened when, and where.

I was reading Simian earlier today; he said something about "the road from the boy's home leads to dirty water." I think Simian, from what we know about him and his possible inside connections, is far more credible than any of the suspects whose PVs I've read.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 10:35:21 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


 :D  :D  :D


It's so obvious.  Paulus was not looking for the cure, he was looking for the poison.  He had to make her die, fast, to protect his first legitimate son.  He was sloppy.

He is paying, and will take the fall.

JMHO


Couldn't have said it better myself.


Is THE POISONED WINE OF BACCHUS a metaphor of some sort? I have never heard or seen anything regarding wine.

Shango posted this on the front page long ago when he posted.

Also, I saw a poster reference bottles, containing drugs of some sort, found out back of CnC. I have never seen this before either.

It gets referenced because not only did jacobs tell dave to watch his drink that bartenders will slip something in the drinks, jossy also said that at cnc's for $20 they would sell drinks that had drugs slipped in... that is where I get this from..for my part.

I do not intend to put weird rumors out there, maybe I just missed part of a conversation or two.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:35:44 PM
The rock area is not all that public.  It's off a dirt road.  There are many rock areas behind the Lighthouse that look similar.  Let me go find a map.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Edited to say . . . there may have been something on those rocks, but I don't feel it had anything to do with Natalee. It was too public . . . perhaps staged. Just thinking out loud.


az_gunslinger: others feel different. WHO KNOWS??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:36:10 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


In other words, she did not make the decision to be human.  She chose the wrong side.  Her later actions were a desperate attempt to recover from her mistake.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 10:36:59 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
OF...i entered BT a lots of ways and it came up with nothing.

MsM..i was asking a question, not debating the issue. If something happened to the woman on her trip, she was smart to save the wine.


thanks Shell
But as Anna pointed out ... it appears that you need at least 3 characters  plus and * to do a generic search ... :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:37:50 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/lighthousearea6.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:38:23 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.


Can we at least get a huge 'DUH!' on this one????


ala_gunslinger,

i appreciate your sarcasm here - but not everyone is convinced that this is the crime scene (100%). Some think it may be a distraction to divert away from the real scene, which may in fact be the VDS residence.


 I suppose that depends on 'which' crime scene you are talking about....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:38:53 PM
But they were painting the rocks in broad daylight with people around.  Not really like anything they did not want seen.  I have to agree it is either a diversion or they were planning to frame the SGuards with it in some way.  Maybe with things taken from their homes when they were arrested.

Then they had alibis so had to go back to the drawing board.

JMO.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:40:01 PM
mrs red - thanks for the clarification.  i knew about drink spiking, $20, etc.. i think i answered my own question after posting. the back of CnC was to mean behind the bar.(as opposed to outside in the parking lot)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 10:40:02 PM
Buckshot wrote;
Quote

Is THE POISONED WINE OF BACCHUS a metaphor of some sort? I have never heard or seen anything regarding wine.


I think it is a reference to the tainted/drugged drink Natalee was given just prior to leaving C+C's.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Edited to say . . . there may have been something on those rocks, but I don't feel it had anything to do with Natalee. It was too public . . . perhaps staged. Just thinking out loud.


az_gunslinger: others feel different. WHO KNOWS??


Then again, you are correct.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:40:52 PM
I believe the "rock area" is to the left of the photo outside the view.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/ArubaLighthouseOverhead.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 25, 2007, 10:41:48 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


Thanks Anna...remember I did not do that.  It was Anna!  Oh my, does that mean she just tangoed with me?  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:41:58 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Buckshot wrote;
Quote

Is THE POISONED WINE OF BACCHUS a metaphor of some sort? I have never heard or seen anything regarding wine.


I think it is a reference to the tainted/drugged drink Natalee was given just prior to leaving C+C's.


funny how BACCHUS was used.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:43:12 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:44:29 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


 I am afraid so.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 25, 2007, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


 Not from aruba, but from Dave.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: yapperz1 on July 25, 2007, 10:45:44 PM
Hiya Monkeys

I think The Aruban Disinformation crew had their orders to cover this up & blame the victim. We had best get ready for round ??? from that bunch.
Renho has something to hide IMO & was planted to deter the family &/or keep them far away from the real truth.
I don't know if the relationship (so rumored) between KJ & PVDS is true but I heard it long ago. I also heard Anita had the connections to the Hague. So why wouldn't Anita's connections cover for PVDS disgretions?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 25, 2007, 10:45:44 PM
OF - Tracy Allan is the woman who reported an experience on the beach on Aruba to the FBI. She is the one who was involved in the sketch that looks like that "Strawberry" guy. He attacked her one morning, maybe while she was jogging? But she got away ... her story is in the M&C thread; it happened before Natalee disappeared. She reported it but didn't hear a thing back until I think December 2005; that's when the FBI interviewed her and did the composit ...

The short version is in the Summary; my sig line goes there. There is a longer version BEFORE the summary. I'm probably not remembering the details well ...

* * *
I think Huntington NY must have a testing location; maybe the FBI contracts with such? I don't think there's an FBI field office there, per se. (I think I looked this up awhile back.)

Okay, back to the drawing board. I thought I spotted TWO lab exams for Haley what's-her-name, one urine, one wine - but I'll check.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:45:45 PM
Gunslinger - I agree and I really don't want to go into detail.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 10:46:05 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


Thanks Anna...remember I did not do that.  It was Anna!  Oh my, does that mean she just tangoed with me?  :shock:


I have been known to tango, Lala's.  This has gone on for so long, I don't think there is a position I have not held at one time or another.

Yes, odd they used the name of the member of the House of Representatives but I think that was just a coincidence.  Yes, I know some people don't believe there are such things but I think this was just a way of describing giving her a drink.

I think Natalee was drugged to some degree before leaving C&C.  More could have been added later, we don't know.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


Likely.  She may have been barely conscious.  Remember, I think it was about 3 AM or so that Paulus (or someone) was searching the VDS computer for drug information.  Was she unconscious then and they suspected overdose?  Did Paulus take Joran and an unconscious Natalee somewhere (Lorenzo's?) and then tell someone he picked them up at McDonalds to cover his tracks?


I don't think that search was until the next night.  But, I believe the computer times had been dinged  and so I don't know what to think.

To add to your scenario:  I don't know if they drove around first or in the middle or when.  I believe the Kalpo car was in motion and the gardner saw Joran and others.  Natalee may have been originally hurt by the rocks or Arashi.  She was taken to VDS and I'm thinking the porn was put on as backdrop film during attack at house. I still believe she was hurt trying to get through the gate (after attempting to get a call off).  The talk around the pool was that night because that is where it happened. IMO

I agree Buckeye that she was hurt at the house.  I believe she in fact got that call off and this is where she ran into trouble.

I also wonder if she woke up and saw them filming her and that is when she freaked.  They mention about the porn in the car and that is a half truth.  The car was really the home and the porn film was really them filming her.  Why would Joran care about the Kalpoes putting a porn film on in the car.  This guy just drugged and kidnapped a person he is going to rape and he would worry about her seeing a porn film.  Just thinking here.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 10:47:12 PM
Klaasend / San / anyone with an edit button

After some further review.. could you add a BIG DISCLAIMER to refer to the PDF at the front of the PDF  to TXT conversion of the disclosure items

Or just get rid of it...(for now at least)

I think I would rather have no information rather than Incorrect info

That OCR software did a pretty good job ... but I failed at proofing it. :cry:  :oops:   Sorry
Thanks


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 25, 2007, 10:47:28 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
In this case....

WINE = URINE

It was a problem with the PDF converter that Oldfart used.  It is not wine, it is urine.


I am just kidding about this wine=urine thing.  Now everyone stop emailing me. LOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 25, 2007, 10:47:37 PM
I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 10:48:16 PM
Quote from: "msmarple"
OF - Tracy Allan is the woman who reported an experience on the beach on Aruba to the FBI. She is the one who was involved in the sketch that looks like that "Strawberry" guy. He attacked her one morning, maybe while she was jogging? But she got away ... her story is in the M&C thread; it happened before Natalee disappeared. She reported it but didn't hear a thing back until I think December 2005; that's when the FBI interviewed her and did the composit ...

The short version is in the Summary; my sig line goes there. There is a longer version BEFORE the summary. I'm probably not remembering the details well ...

* * *
I think Huntington NY must have a testing location; maybe the FBI contracts with such? I don't think there's an FBI field office there, per se. (I think I looked this up awhile back.)

Okay, back to the drawing board. I thought I spotted TWO lab exams for Haley what's-her-name, one urine, one wine - but I'll check.


I think that she is the reason they came up with the beach story...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 25, 2007, 10:48:24 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "klaasend"
McDonalds is near the Holiday Inn

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/LionsDenVDS6.jpg)


McDonald's Aruba NV

Kamerlingh   Onnnesstraat 8          583-3766
LG Smith Boulevard                       586-1515
Sta Cruz  54B                               585-4525


after have been there, my recollection is that McD is super close to the Holiday Inn, as in 1-2 min walk.


Hi Buckshot...so you've been to Aruba?  Great, YOU should be able to help fill in a lot of details...like the 1-2 min walk in your post!...Glad we have you as a resourse to fill in some blanks...welcome aboard.

Destiny


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


 Not from aruba, but from Dave.


I have always thought this . . .


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 25, 2007, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: "*******"
Did anyone see the article today in BonDia? It was very long and it was about the Winklaar guy that was arrested the same time as Lorenzo. No mention of LVR but the article was difficult to translate. I think it mentioned he had a medical condition or something?


The Winklaars (father & son) were arrested in the pot bust. The older Winklaar apparently has a variety of medical conditions including high blood pressure. The prison diet is making it worse. (The prison doctor and the family doctor have different opinions, of course.) Family also complains that he's not supposed to have salt and that request has been ignored. Basically they're trying to get HIM released until his court date. They have not attempted a similar appeal to have the son released.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 25, 2007, 10:51:45 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?


That is correct. Also got very heated when Joran said he killed NH and the Kalpoes help bury her from the Diario translations of Jorans confession.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 10:52:20 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Klaasend / San / anyone with an edit button

After some further review.. could you add a BIG DISCLAIMER to refer to the PDF at the front of the PDF  to TXT conversion of the disclosure items

Or just get rid of it...(for now at least)

I think I would rather have no information rather than Incorrect info

That OCR software did a pretty good job ... but I failed at proofing it. :cry:  :oops:   Sorry
Thanks


Oldfart, you really want me to delete it for now?  You can add it back when we move to the new forum if you want.  Up to you.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 25, 2007, 10:52:36 PM
I have to call it a night . . . must be up early in the morning. I have very much enjoyed the discussions tonight. I hope to see all of you tomorrow. May the truth be finally revealed! Goodnight Monkeys!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 25, 2007, 10:53:20 PM
I wondered if she somehow got out of the car, was already injured, was bleeding and was trying to hide from them at the rocks............


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:53:33 PM
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?[/quote]

the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
If the crime scene (battery, rape) took place away from the VanderSloot residence, Paulus would have been called by the boys. If Paulus came from his house to meet up with J2K, most likely he would have sent K2 away and handled the disposal with Joran only.  Natalee's body would have most likely been transferred from one vehicle to another. This is simply a cloudy area of the timeline.  Speculation could have any vehicle there: (a) Paulus' vehicle, (b) a real close friend's vehicle.  Would Paulus have known to keep forensic evidence out of one of his own vehicles? At that particular moment, however, he could never in his wildest dreams imagined that the ALE would allow forensics to disappear from his vehicle.

I think at some point that Paulus sent the Kalpoe's away and dealt with this with Joran only.  Paulus and Joran had a very important job to do.

Part of me can see that maybe a small (friends only) pool party / Joran's apartment party took place after CnC.  However, if Paulus was out and about between 3-7AM, that eliminates a pool party scenario for me somewhat.  Doublethink: Maybe Paulus wants people to think he was out and about (@McD) to steer theories away from the safe haven, which could turn out to be his own home.

Any ideas....

This is what they have been doing since day one.  Keeping the crime away from the house.  

I agree about Paulus sending the Kalpoes away.  No what would he have allowed them to know what he was going to do.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 10:55:19 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?


JuJu
JMO  but it depends on which story / PV's you are looking / comparing.
That I knew... Some one took Joarn home but they could not agree if it was Dxxxxx or Sxxxxx


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 25, 2007, 10:56:54 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?[/quote]

yes you are, IMO... Remember we already have Freddy being questioned for filming the other girls on the island.  Heck that even happens constantly here in the US... kids will film/photograph anything.. like the fights, etc...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 25, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Man Drowns in Aruba and Washes Ashore … Why Didn’t Natalee Holloway, if she Drown?

http://tinyurl.com/yt6g33


Oh dear. For one thing, he slept in boats (homeless).

I haven't seen a cause of death yet. Or anything about which boat he might have been sleeping in that night. Or whether where he slept had anything to do with it.

He probably d-r-o-w-n-e-d, and it is unlikely that foul play will be suspected.

(But you KNOW I'm watching for it.  :wink:  )


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 10:57:03 PM
:oops: Last That I knew  :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 10:58:56 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?[/quote]

Yes, I am sorry to say you are wrong. There are numerous amateur online porn sites ie Bangbus.com


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 10:59:08 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
If the crime scene (battery, rape) took place away from the VanderSloot residence, Paulus would have been called by the boys. If Paulus came from his house to meet up with J2K, most likely he would have sent K2 away and handled the disposal with Joran only.  Natalee's body would have most likely been transferred from one vehicle to another. This is simply a cloudy area of the timeline.  Speculation could have any vehicle there: (a) Paulus' vehicle, (b) a real close friend's vehicle.  Would Paulus have known to keep forensic evidence out of one of his own vehicles? At that particular moment, however, he could never in his wildest dreams imagined that the ALE would allow forensics to disappear from his vehicle.

I think at some point that Paulus sent the Kalpoe's away and dealt with this with Joran only.  Paulus and Joran had a very important job to do.

Part of me can see that maybe a small (friends only) pool party / Joran's apartment party took place after CnC.  However, if Paulus was out and about between 3-7AM, that eliminates a pool party scenario for me somewhat.  Doublethink: Maybe Paulus wants people to think he was out and about (@McD) to steer theories away from the safe haven, which could turn out to be his own home.

Any ideas....

This is what they have been doing since day one.  Keeping the crime away from the house.  

I agree about Paulus sending the Kalpoes away.  No what would he have allowed them to know what he was going to do.




Kalpoe's, I agree, were definitely sent away. Nadira was too worried about not messing up what time her two sons arrived back at their home. Additionally, DK was on the internet later in the evening - most, if not all, agree with this. What time was he logged in and chatting with his friend from USA?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 25, 2007, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "JuJu"
I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?


JuJu
JMO  but it depends on which story / PV's you are looking / comparing.
That I knew... Some one took Joarn home but they could not agree if it was Dxxxxx or Sxxxxx


it just said to me that Nat did go to the VDS house, and the argument was about whether or not the K's went there too.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 10:59:53 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.

Could the final blow have been at the rocks (Guido = Heavy Battery).  They knew she was still alive and they wanted to make sure she was dead after taking her from the VDS home.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 25, 2007, 11:02:28 PM
O/T - Not much happening in SF today, but I just put a few pics in the Lounge. Hoping for a better day tomorrow.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 11:02:39 PM
We have too many crime scenes and suspects.  This is not something Paulus would have allowed to be known by a large number of people I don't think.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:02:50 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?


Yes, I am sorry to say you are wrong. There are numerous amateur online porn sites ie Bangbus.com[/quote]

I have seen these sites. Aren't the girls at least awake, as opposed to a nodding in and out Natalee. Would make for a bad video, in my opinion.
Or, was this a beginning to future lies concerning her being on the verge of having adverse reaction to alcohol and her supposed drugs(fabricated also), subsequently leading to her death?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 25, 2007, 11:03:25 PM
Thanks Ms.Marple that was what I thought it may say..I wonder when LVR has his court date? Must be coming up soon..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 11:05:09 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.

Could the final blow have been at the rocks (Guido = Heavy Battery).  They knew she was still alive and they wanted to make sure she was dead after taking her from the VDS home.


or did dismemberment take place at the rocks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 11:05:46 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?


Yes, I am sorry to say you are wrong. There are numerous amateur online porn sites ie Bangbus.com


I have seen these sites. Aren't the girls at least awake, as opposed to a nodding in and out Natalee. Would make for a bad video, in my opinion.
Or, was this a beginning to future lies concerning her being on the verge of having adverse reaction to alcohol and her supposed drugs(fabricated also), subsequently leading to her death?[/quote]
_____________________________________________

There are rape videos at those sites as well.  Just saying.  Don't believe for a minute that these boys weren't into filming and distributing their amateur porn flicks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 11:07:26 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.

Could the final blow have been at the rocks (Guido = Heavy Battery).  They knew she was still alive and they wanted to make sure she was dead after taking her from the VDS home.


or did dismemberment take place at the rocks.


Horrible to think of, but entirely possible.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:07:33 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.

Could the final blow have been at the rocks (Guido = Heavy Battery).  They knew she was still alive and they wanted to make sure she was dead after taking her from the VDS home.


Why go from house to rocks? And not house to disposal? What could be accomplished at the rocks that couldn't be accomplished home or elsewhere - disposal loacation(s)?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 11:08:36 PM
BUCKSHOT - See San's post above.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 25, 2007, 11:09:07 PM
qUIDO WAS A MALE MODEL.  wAS HE A BOXER TOO? sORRRY FOR THE ALL CAPS!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 25, 2007, 11:09:25 PM
Beth and others stated that there was a lot of blood in the KP's car,  my question is what had caused her to bleed that much....was she beat up or what.......hate to ask this, I don't mean to be morbid, but I would like to hear what ya'll think...TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
BUCKSHOT - See San's post above.


Thanks - just saw it.

If this train of thought is followed, the it would be an opportune time to borrow some tools at the Fisherman's Huts. Not to mention, along the way.

I tend to think her body has been destroyed as it would close the possibility of it accidentally being discovered at a later time.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 25, 2007, 11:11:37 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
qUIDO WAS A MALE MODEL.  wAS HE A BOXER TOO? sORRRY FOR THE ALL CAPS!


Guido could have gotten really pissed if Natalee scratched his models's face.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 25, 2007, 11:11:53 PM
G'nite Monkeys
We all have our thoughts on who and how things occured.

I just wish there was a way to  leak, borrow, buy, of otherwise obtain (W/O compromising the case) any good / reliable info from Monday and Tuesday  Who was where, who did they call / what did the say to other people etc.

Why ... because come Tueday evening the story from that morning was already changing...

JMO...

Keep the faith and keep turn the Chit over

SeeYaaByeee


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 25, 2007, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"


Why go from house to rocks? And not house to disposal? What could be accomplished at the rocks that couldn't be accomplished home or elsewhere - disposal loacation(s)?


Maybe, instead, they went from rocks to house. Maybe something violent happened there and they ended up taking Natalee (alive or deceased) back to the VDS house simply to figure out what to do next.

I feel so crass talking about this. I hate to speculate about anyone's demise this way.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 11:14:17 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
qUIDO WAS A MALE MODEL.  wAS HE A BOXER TOO? sORRRY FOR THE ALL CAPS!

Why do you ask?  I don't remember hearing anything about him being a boxer.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 25, 2007, 11:15:00 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
qUIDO WAS A MALE MODEL.  wAS HE A BOXER TOO? sORRRY FOR THE ALL CAPS!


Guido could have gotten really pissed if Natalee scratched his models's face.


I don't understand how someone can be arrested on suspicion of heavy battery then, POOF!  Nothing and they are free to go.  There had to be some basis for his arrest.  Why not just question him as a witness if he is not involved?  Why the arrest with the gruesome title, etc.

I think we know who and what but we don't know how or where.

But how could there be a basis for all these arrests then absolutely nothing ever comes of any of it?  I don't get it.  What was the basis for the arrests in the first place and what happened to that information?

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 11:15:10 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?


Yes, I am sorry to say you are wrong. There are numerous amateur online porn sites ie Bangbus.com


I have seen these sites. Aren't the girls at least awake, as opposed to a nodding in and out Natalee. Would make for a bad video, in my opinion.
Or, was this a beginning to future lies concerning her being on the verge of having adverse reaction to alcohol and her supposed drugs(fabricated also), subsequently leading to her death?[/quote]

IMO they (the 3 perps) did not count on an unconscious Natalee just a drugged one.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 25, 2007, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Beth and others stated that there was a lot of blood in the KP's car,  my question is what had caused her to bleed that much....was she beat up or what.......hate to ask this, I don't mean to be morbid, but I would like to hear what ya'll think...TIA


Hard to say..Hate to talk about this but it needs to be addressed. She could have been hit by the car or hit in the head with a object like a bat. That much blood wouldnt be from a simple assault. For all we know the idiots drugged her again with a huge dose after she put up a fight. Possible that she overdosed or had complications and they took her out to the rocks to put her out of her mysery.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:18:44 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
qUIDO WAS A MALE MODEL.  wAS HE A BOXER TOO? sORRRY FOR THE ALL CAPS!


Guido could have gotten really pissed if Natalee scratched his models's face.


I don't understand how someone can be arrested on suspicion of heavy battery then, POOF!  Nothing and they are free to go.  There had to be some basis for his arrest.  Why not just question him as a witness if he is not involved?  Why the arrest with the gruesome title, etc.

I think we know who and what but we don't know how or where.

But how could there be a basis for all these arrests then absolutely nothing ever comes of any of it?  I don't get it.  What was the basis for the arrests in the first place and what happened to that information?

.


It is a dog and pony show that appeases the media while buying them time to set the stage for the next dog and pony show.  In the interim, they have the opportunity to hear feedback on the arrest(s) to see which lies stick best in the media.  Once a lie has been determined to have sounded good in the media, they probably log it in as a fact.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 11:19:15 PM
I am not exactly sure what heavy battery can include. Does anyone know?
I do know that someone can simply be charged with battery without actually
touching the other person. If you pull on someones coat sleeve for example in attempting to keep them from leaving you can be charged with battery.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 25, 2007, 11:20:28 PM
I know this has been discussed but I think this very well may be a truthfull post...IMO

I have heard you mention blacklabel .. is this he/she?

bakablGuest Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:00 am Post subject:

Natalee Holloway Questions to be asked of the Two Men

Frist Im vary sorry to hear of the vary sad case of Natalee Holloway in such a wonderful place like Aruba but it could happen anywere at any time.

There are a few questions that need to be asked of the two men that the FBI are questioning -

1st ask them about the drink that was given to Natalee around 3:15am Aruba Time the morring Natalee never retyrn to her hotel and ask them about what the drug was in the drink that Natalee drunk without her knowing.

2nd ask them about the boat and the 2-1/2 mile trip they took. They should break dowm and tell the truth about are were Natalee can be found.

abbadminSite AdminJoined: 24 Nov 2002Posts: 512Location: New Hampshire's Monadnock Region Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 25, 2007, 11:20:36 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"

It is a dog and pony show that appeases the media while buying them time to set the stage for the next dog and pony show.  In the interim, they have the opportunity to hear feedback on the arrest(s) to see which lies stick best in the media.  Once a lie has been determined to have sounded good in the media, they probably log it in as a fact.


I agree--it's a misinformation campaign. Look at all the conflicting stories and timelines we have about a timespan of a few hours (not to mention rumors about crime or burial scenes all over the island)--we don't know what to believe.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 25, 2007, 11:25:46 PM
It was fun, monkeys--I love being on here at night. I have to go now so my husband can use the computer to practice law. I may be back in a few minutes. Hope so!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"

It is a dog and pony show that appeases the media while buying them time to set the stage for the next dog and pony show.  In the interim, they have the opportunity to hear feedback on the arrest(s) to see which lies stick best in the media.  Once a lie has been determined to have sounded good in the media, they probably log it in as a fact.


I agree--it's a misinformation campaign. Look at all the conflicting stories and timelines we have about a timespan of a few hours (not to mention rumors about crime or burial scenes all over the island)--we don't know what to believe.


Although i say that, there very well may be reason to have linked Guido to these charges.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 11:31:53 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
It was fun, monkeys--I love being on here at night. I have to go now so my husband can use the computer to practice law. I may be back in a few minutes. Hope so!
Do you think he might be able to tell me the difference between battery and heavy battery?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 25, 2007, 11:32:05 PM
if PVDS had contact twice that night/morning how in the hell did they release him as a suspect???????????  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 11:34:07 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
if PVDS had contact twice that night/morning how in the hell did they release him as a suspect???????????  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


It's my understanding that particular information had not been presented to a judge prior.  KJ was holding out.  It was only presented to deny PVDS compensation.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:34:24 PM
Gut feelings tell me that a pool party / cozy apartment setting would have been first choice after leaving the bar. As one poster said - it was an environment they were very familiar with.

If people say that friends parked behind the wall of the VDS property and hopped the wall to enter the property, is it completely out of the question to think that while a drugged Natalee attempted to climb the back wall of the property that she could have suffered terrible injuries in the process?
I can't say that I have seen this idea proposed.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 25, 2007, 11:37:14 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "JuJu"
if PVDS had contact twice that night/morning how in the hell did they release him as a suspect???????????  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


It's my understanding that particular information had not been presented to a judge prior.  KJ was holding out.  It was only presented to deny PVDS compensation.


Thanks Klaas!!  Got to give it up for tonite..exhausted....but may we all live to fight another day......nite Monks


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 11:37:30 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?


Yes, I am sorry to say you are wrong. There are numerous amateur online porn sites ie Bangbus.com


I have seen these sites. Aren't the girls at least awake, as opposed to a nodding in and out Natalee. Would make for a bad video, in my opinion.
Or, was this a beginning to future lies concerning her being on the verge of having adverse reaction to alcohol and her supposed drugs(fabricated also), subsequently leading to her death?

_____________________________________________

There are rape videos at those sites as well.  Just saying.  Don't believe for a minute that these boys weren't into filming and distributing their amateur porn flicks.[/quote]

San wrote:
I believe they were filming it to sell for a profit.  I also believe there is a Florida connection in this.  Freddy's brother Ernesto.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 11:37:54 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Gut feelings tell me that a pool party / cozy apartment setting would have been first choice after leaving the bar. As one poster said - it was an environment they were very familiar with.

If people say that friends parked behind the wall of the VDS property and hopped the wall to enter the property, is it completely out of the question to think that while a drugged Natalee attempted to climb the back wall of the property that she could have suffered terrible injuries in the process?
I can't say that I have seen this idea proposed.

Could have but I don't think Natalee would willingly climb the wall at the Sloot home to go to a party on her last night in Aruba.  It doesn't make sense.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 11:41:12 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
if PVDS had contact twice that night/morning how in the hell did they release him as a suspect???????????  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Because he has friends in high places :x


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:41:49 PM
I have read here connections to Mr. Pink, etc.. I do not think these kids got lucky enough to video and have sick fun with Natalee as she was in no shape to provide such entertainment for their sick minds on that night.

Some of these 'higher ups', it would make sense, would distance themselves from these young men, who they may have associated with in the past.  These older men were most likely involved in white collar criminal acitivity, and were smart enogh to realize that lots of money was at stake, subsequently, they turned their backs to the PIMPS so as to not be involved and associated with this case.  This case would catapult them into the limelight - a place I am sure they did not want to place themselves.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 11:42:30 PM
I know I am very repetative in my posting of Dutchlady posts.......but this one rings true to me.

+++++++++++++++++++

>>>>>SNIP

It is also the case that the beach was a later alibi as was the lighthouse one, as distancing from the home of Joran who had unlimited access. No kids shits on the beach if he has a bog at home. To graphic, then listen to kids of that age in school. No man or boy of over 16 would think of peeing in a gutter or laying in a tourism place as an alternative to his own drink parlour and bog. Yes, the words come as easily as other predators I have listened too, and what they do is tell a good story in their mind and regurtitate it. It takes a snake to catch a snake. The snake is not Joran, yes he has in my opinion lashed out at Natalee for some reason, but the duality of this is the repetition and stage management so that has to be a more older adult. He is procuring for someone else and simple bragging because he joins in on the action as a forensic cue from his own photos on the web.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 25, 2007, 11:44:46 PM
Oldfart,

Someone may have already answered you, but when I just tried to search BT* or bt*, nothing was returned for Posts.  

Hi, all, I'm reading way back, so I'm not sure when I'll catch up.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 11:46:51 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Gut feelings tell me that a pool party / cozy apartment setting would have been first choice after leaving the bar. As one poster said - it was an environment they were very familiar with.

If people say that friends parked behind the wall of the VDS property and hopped the wall to enter the property, is it completely out of the question to think that while a drugged Natalee attempted to climb the back wall of the property that she could have suffered terrible injuries in the process?
I can't say that I have seen this idea proposed.

Joran wouldn't have went to no other place but his home that night.  He had it all planned out.  It was too convenient to pass up with Anita being gone.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 25, 2007, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Oldfart,

Someone may have already answered you, but when I just tried to search BT* or bt*, nothing was returned for Posts.  

Hi, all, I'm reading way back, so I'm not sure when I'll catch up.


Is OF looking for San Fran day 2 posted in the lounge by BT. I didn't see it earlier but it's up now. What a hoot......


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: sleddogs on July 25, 2007, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sue"
I have been reading through the legal doc on BFN

Who is this person and why would they be given Urine samples to FBI in this case



---
Other FBI DOCS

Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer


I don't think  anyone knows.  She may have been someone that came forward saying she thought she'd been drugged?  We really don't know.


I just found this in there too
Quote
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain
Name/Title/Description: Interview with Tracey Allan
Date: 06/09/2005
Pages: 1

Same place Huntington NY..  just seems odd .. to me


Hey all ya'll!

The file number looks interesting........

Goodnight!



Maybe this is why? See Post #4

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=46659

Same case #


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 25, 2007, 11:50:17 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
I have read here connections to Mr. Pink, etc.. I do not think these kids got lucky enough to video and have sick fun with Natalee as she was in no shape to provide such entertainment for their sick minds on that night.

Some of these 'higher ups', it would make sense, would distance themselves from these young men, who they may have associated with in the past.  These older men were most likely involved in white collar criminal acitivity, and were smart enogh to realize that lots of money was at stake, subsequently, they turned their backs to the PIMPS so as to not be involved and associated with this case.  This case would catapult them into the limelight - a place I am sure they did not want to place themselves.

The only person who involved the "higher Ups" was Paulus.

I disagree with you about these kids not getting lucky enough to video their actions.  They did video or take pictures of what they did.  Paulus made a special trip to Florida and I believe it had to do with these pictures.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:50:41 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Gut feelings tell me that a pool party / cozy apartment setting would have been first choice after leaving the bar. As one poster said - it was an environment they were very familiar with.

If people say that friends parked behind the wall of the VDS property and hopped the wall to enter the property, is it completely out of the question to think that while a drugged Natalee attempted to climb the back wall of the property that she could have suffered terrible injuries in the process?
I can't say that I have seen this idea proposed.

Could have but I don't think Natalee would willingly climb the wall at the Sloot home to go to a party on her last night in Aruba.  It doesn't make sense.


In a rented vehicle, I drove to the VDS residence while vacationing in Aruba. These climbing the wall stories make sense.  Otherwise, entering the residence involves driving through their main gate.  J2K were probably trying to be somewhat discreet at that time of night (was Paulus even home??)  Do you think Joran really had to sneak out, or were his parents used to him leaving his home at 11PM on a school night ? I have never given it much thought until now. If he snuck out, parking out back and climbing the wall makes sense to re-enter the residence.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 25, 2007, 11:54:06 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Gut feelings tell me that a pool party / cozy apartment setting would have been first choice after leaving the bar. As one poster said - it was an environment they were very familiar with.

If people say that friends parked behind the wall of the VDS property and hopped the wall to enter the property, is it completely out of the question to think that while a drugged Natalee attempted to climb the back wall of the property that she could have suffered terrible injuries in the process?
I can't say that I have seen this idea proposed.

Could have but I don't think Natalee would willingly climb the wall at the Sloot home to go to a party on her last night in Aruba.  It doesn't make sense.


In a rented vehicle, I drove to the VDS residence while vacationing in Aruba. These climbing the wall stories make sense.  Otherwise, entering the residence involves driving through their main gate.  J2K were probably trying to be somewhat discreet at that time of night (was Paulus even home??)  Do you think Joran really had to sneak out, or were his parents used to him leaving his home at 11PM on a school night ? I have never given it much thought until now. If he snuck out, parking out back and climbing the wall makes sense to re-enter the residence.


I agree, I just can't see Natalee wanting to do this.  If she was drugged and pushed over the wall maybe.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 25, 2007, 11:58:19 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Gut feelings tell me that a pool party / cozy apartment setting would have been first choice after leaving the bar. As one poster said - it was an environment they were very familiar with.

If people say that friends parked behind the wall of the VDS property and hopped the wall to enter the property, is it completely out of the question to think that while a drugged Natalee attempted to climb the back wall of the property that she could have suffered terrible injuries in the process?
I can't say that I have seen this idea proposed.

Could have but I don't think Natalee would willingly climb the wall at the Sloot home to go to a party on her last night in Aruba.  It doesn't make sense.


In a rented vehicle, I drove to the VDS residence while vacationing in Aruba. These climbing the wall stories make sense.  Otherwise, entering the residence involves driving through their main gate.  J2K were probably trying to be somewhat discreet at that time of night (was Paulus even home??)  Do you think Joran really had to sneak out, or were his parents used to him leaving his home at 11PM on a school night ? I have never given it much thought until now. If he snuck out, parking out back and climbing the wall makes sense to re-enter the residence.


I agree, I just can't see Natalee wanting to do this.  If she was drugged and pushed over the wall maybe.


Right. I am just speculating.  Maybe not pushed, but encouraged / helped with the re-entry into the residence.  Multiple friends, if true, would blow the discretion.  Maybe, there was no fear of being caught so they just waltzed (drove) right through the main gate.  Anita was not there.

Question: Was the rest of the VDS family in Holland, or just Anita ??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Dihannah1 on July 26, 2007, 12:00:42 AM
Hi Monkeys!   I'm just reading and catching up.  I noticed a new monkey and wanted to say Hi and Welcome!  Glad to have a new monkey aboard!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 26, 2007, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: "Dihannah1"
Hi Monkeys!   I'm just reading and catching up.  I noticed a new monkey and wanted to say Hi and Welcome!  Glad to have a new monkey aboard!


I've been looking for you!!!!

I LOVE your avi!!!!!

When you want another Tink, check the Lounge.............there's been a couple for you for a long time!  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Dihannah1 on July 26, 2007, 12:02:12 AM
OH, and sleddogs!  Welcome to you too!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 12:02:56 AM
BUCKSHOT - by all appearances, Valentijn and Sebastian were home and not in Holland with Anita.  There is some questions about that though.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 12:04:36 AM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
It was fun, monkeys--I love being on here at night. I have to go now so my husband can use the computer to practice law. I may be back in a few minutes. Hope so!
Do you think he might be able to tell me the difference between battery and heavy battery?


I asked him, bleached. He doesn't know--he does commercial real estate law and doesn't know the criminal side of things. ;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 12:09:30 AM
Right or wrong, I would love to hear detailed timelines for that evening, as speculated by everyone here. It is very interesting to read and ponder.

It seems as though everyone here, for the most part, is on the money in their assessments.  I realize that some the particulars are only known by the perpetrators themselves.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Dihannah1 on July 26, 2007, 12:11:58 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Dihannah1"
Hi Monkeys!   I'm just reading and catching up.  I noticed a new monkey and wanted to say Hi and Welcome!  Glad to have a new monkey aboard!


I've been looking for you!!!!

I LOVE your avi!!!!!

When you want another Tink, check the Lounge.............there's been a couple for you for a long time!  :wink:


Thanks CBB.  I decided for a temporary change,  but I'm sure I will go back to Tink eventually.  My daughter sent this to me because we have 4 dachsunds and it seemed like a nice change for now.  So many other monkeys made changes, so had to follow the crowd.  :lol:

Looks like our new Monkey Buckshot is in need of some clothes though!

Will let you know, when I'm ready to go back to my Tink alter-ego :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 12:13:41 AM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Gut feelings tell me that a pool party / cozy apartment setting would have been first choice after leaving the bar. As one poster said - it was an environment they were very familiar with.

If people say that friends parked behind the wall of the VDS property and hopped the wall to enter the property, is it completely out of the question to think that while a drugged Natalee attempted to climb the back wall of the property that she could have suffered terrible injuries in the process?
I can't say that I have seen this idea proposed.

Could have but I don't think Natalee would willingly climb the wall at the Sloot home to go to a party on her last night in Aruba.  It doesn't make sense.


In a rented vehicle, I drove to the VDS residence while vacationing in Aruba. These climbing the wall stories make sense.  Otherwise, entering the residence involves driving through their main gate.  J2K were probably trying to be somewhat discreet at that time of night (was Paulus even home??)  Do you think Joran really had to sneak out, or were his parents used to him leaving his home at 11PM on a school night ? I have never given it much thought until now. If he snuck out, parking out back and climbing the wall makes sense to re-enter the residence.


I agree, I just can't see Natalee wanting to do this.  If she was drugged and pushed over the wall maybe.


Right. I am just speculating.  Maybe not pushed, but encouraged / helped with the re-entry into the residence.  Multiple friends, if true, would blow the discretion.  Maybe, there was no fear of being caught so they just waltzed (drove) right through the main gate.  Anita was not there.

Question: Was the rest of the VDS family in Holland, or just Anita ??

We have a poster by the name of Widget who found out early on that there were three Sloots that returned home on the plane.

I believe Widget.  I do not believe the other two boys were home.  The only people who say they were home were Paulus and Joran and the reason why they say this is because he helps their alibi.

If they were home why isn't there a statement from the middle brother.  I'll tell you why because Paulus would have involved a third son in his lies but this time it would be on a PV as a witness and he would be in big trouble if caught lying.

If they could interview Sander Gottenbos then can interview Val van der Sloot.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 26, 2007, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: "Dihannah1"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Dihannah1"
Hi Monkeys!   I'm just reading and catching up.  I noticed a new monkey and wanted to say Hi and Welcome!  Glad to have a new monkey aboard!


I've been looking for you!!!!

I LOVE your avi!!!!!

When you want another Tink, check the Lounge.............there's been a couple for you for a long time!  :wink:


Thanks CBB.  I decided for a temporary change,  but I'm sure I will go back to Tink eventually.  My daughter sent this to me because we have 4 dachsunds and it seemed like a nice change for now.  So many other monkeys made changes, so had to follow the crowd.  :lol:

Looks like our new Monkey Buckshot is in need of some clothes though!

Will let you know, when I'm ready to go back to my Tink alter-ego :)


Oh, I love the pooches!!  :D
Just wanted to make sure you saw them.

Buckshot? If you want an avatar and need some help, I'll be happy to help in any way I can.  :wink:

WELCOME, BUCKSHOT!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 12:17:40 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Dihannah1"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Dihannah1"
Hi Monkeys!   I'm just reading and catching up.  I noticed a new monkey and wanted to say Hi and Welcome!  Glad to have a new monkey aboard!


I've been looking for you!!!!

I LOVE your avi!!!!!

When you want another Tink, check the Lounge.............there's been a couple for you for a long time!  :wink:


Thanks CBB.  I decided for a temporary change,  but I'm sure I will go back to Tink eventually.  My daughter sent this to me because we have 4 dachsunds and it seemed like a nice change for now.  So many other monkeys made changes, so had to follow the crowd.  :lol:

Looks like our new Monkey Buckshot is in need of some clothes though!

Will let you know, when I'm ready to go back to my Tink alter-ego :)


Oh, I love the pooches!!  :D
Just wanted to make sure you saw them.

Buckshot? If you want an avatar and need some help, I'll be happy to help in any way I can.  :wink:

WELCOME, BUCKSHOT!!!
- thank you !!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 26, 2007, 12:21:47 AM
You're welcome! Sooooo, just let me know if you want help with an avatar.  :wink:

( But, if you answer "thank - you" again, I still won't know if that means you're grateful that someone offered, or if you want an avatar and need help.  :oops: )  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 12:23:04 AM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Right or wrong, I would love to hear detailed timelines for that evening, as speculated by everyone here. It is very interesting to read and ponder.

It seems as though everyone here, for the most part, is on the money in their assessments.  I realize that some the particulars are only known by the perpetrators themselves.


Buck, I've worked on timelines and they're all over the map from the time the boys left C&Cs with Natalee to the time Joran went to school the next day. The time from around 1 a.m. to 8 a.m. is pretty much unaccounted for, especially the time between 1:30 and 3:30 a.m. (before the computer records and phone records indicate that Joran was home).


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:23:42 AM
In other words...if the two younger Sloots were home there would be a reason to interview them.  If they were not home, why bother.  HMMMM.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: sleddogs on July 26, 2007, 12:25:20 AM
Dihannah1

Thanks, I been missing in action for  a long time.  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 12:25:25 AM
Does anyone think evidence is stored in a central location or thrown away as to make sure it doesn't end up in the wrong hands?

Who would be the gatekeeper, if stored away.

Who was there even a need to hide from in Aruba? Since ALE had no intention of prosecuting the suspects, why even go through the interviews, etc..? It seemed as though it would not have mattered what a suspect said to ALE. (For example: Joran could describe his little heart away the truth of the whole evening and those interviewing him would simply say "Joran, we already know all of that - don't worry, buddy, you are not going to get in any trouble - we just need to know what lies to interject to throw the media off. This is all just to appease those stupid Americans and fool them into thinking we are doing the best we can")


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 12:27:43 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
You're welcome! Sooooo, just let me know if you want help with an avatar.  :wink:

( But, if you answer "thank - you" again, I still won't know if that means you're grateful that someone offered, or if you want an avatar and need help.  :oops: )  :lol:


i will let you know when i am ready. i was thanking you for your offer to help me.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 12:27:56 AM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Does anyone think evidence is stored in a central location or thrown away as to make sure it doesn't end up in the wrong hands?

Who would be the gatekeeper, if stored away.

Who was there even a need to hide from in Aruba? Since ALE had no intention of prosecuting the suspects, why even go through the interviews, etc..? It seemed as though it would not have mattered what a suspect said to ALE. (For example: Joran could describe his little heart away the truth of the whole evening and those interviewing him would simply say "Joran, we already know all of that - don't worry, buddy, you are not going to get in any trouble - we just need to know what lies to interject to throw the media off. This is all just to appease those stupid Americans and fool them into thinking we are doing the best we can")


I think they destroyed whatever evidence they could, maybe with the help of corrupt officials. There's no use hiding it and risking it coming back to incriminate them someday. My hope is they missed some crucial piece of the coverup...or that someone who knows something will come forward.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 12:30:54 AM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Does anyone think evidence is stored in a central location or thrown away as to make sure it doesn't end up in the wrong hands?

Who would be the gatekeeper, if stored away.

Who was there even a need to hide from in Aruba? Since ALE had no intention of prosecuting the suspects, why even go through the interviews, etc..? It seemed as though it would not have mattered what a suspect said to ALE. (For example: Joran could describe his little heart away the truth of the whole evening and those interviewing him would simply say "Joran, we already know all of that - don't worry, buddy, you are not going to get in any trouble - we just need to know what lies to interject to throw the media off. This is all just to appease those stupid Americans and fool them into thinking we are doing the best we can")

Julia Renfro :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 12:33:42 AM
i am off to bed - good night to all.
thanks for the hospitality !!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 12:36:34 AM
Nite Buckshot


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 12:48:16 AM
Bacchus, that first from out the purple grape crushed the sweet poison of misused wine.
John Milton

Someone wondered about the source of this allusion.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 12:48:32 AM
When reading archives I found a post by arubagirl where she stated that Anita would not have to answer any questions or give details that would be negative towards Paulus...I'm just wondering if the same would hold true with the younger sons....will have to try to find the post....if it was front page...will let Klaas or San know for a copy & paste....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:48:44 AM
I think there were and still are some in ALE that truly wanted and expected this to be solved right away.  They were the ones that go to work each day thinking that things are normal. They had no clue as to what lies beneath the calm exterior of Aruba.  I am speaking more of the corruption than the drugs and gambling and stuff.  You don't have to be too smart to see what is happening on the surface...it's when you look under the rug that you see all the roaches.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
I think there were and still are some in ALE that truly wanted and expected this to be solved right away.  They were the ones that go to work each day thinking that things are normal. They had no clue as to what lies beneath the calm exterior of Aruba.  I am speaking more of the corruption than the drugs and gambling and stuff.  You don't have to be too smart to see what is happening on the surface...it's when you look under the rug that you see all the roaches.


Like Clyde Burke?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 12:54:06 AM
Goodnight, monkeys--see y'all in the morning!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 12:54:17 AM
Howdy folks. According to the time on my laptop, I'm up at 1:00 am on a school night. How cool!  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 12:55:25 AM
Hey, BT.  Want to tango with Lala's and me?  Sometimes we do that, late at night.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 12:57:13 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Hey, BT.  Want to tango with Lala's and me?  Sometimes we do that, late at night.


Sure. I can tango until my room mate Donna tells me to get off the durned computer and turn out the lights.  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 12:57:47 AM
Lala's, I agree.  I think Dave thought so, too.  So, how are those honest and hard-working men and women looking at themselves in the mirror nowadays?  If we assume they know what happened and witnessed this coverup, then they have not spoken out.  They have allowed this shameful mockery of injustice to continue and continue.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 12:57:53 AM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
When reading archives I found a post by arubagirl where she stated that Anita would not have to answer any questions or give details that would be negative towards Paulus...I'm just wondering if the same would hold true with the younger sons....will have to try to find the post....if it was front page...will let Klaas or San know for a copy & paste....

I find this to be a convenient excuse by Aruba.  If it wasn't a law then in Aruba it's a law now. :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:00:54 AM
I'm outraged and disgusted by the behavior of all the people in Aruba who watched every step of this coverup and did nothing.  They knew of the affair between Paulus and Janssen and turned a blind eye.  They knew of Joran's raping and murdering and made excuses for him.  They know of much more that goes on that we are not aware and they do nothing.  This angers me.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 01:02:42 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm outraged and disgusted by the behavior of all the people in Aruba who watched every step of this coverup and did nothing.  They knew of the affair between Paulus and Janssen and turned a blind eye.  They knew of Joran's raping and murdering and made excuses for him.  They know of much more that goes on that we are not aware and they do nothing.  This angers me.


I've only had a chance to read bits and pieces today. Is it pretty well established that Janssen was having an affair with PVDS? I know someone told Rob, and people were asking him questions earlier today, but that was the last I read about it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:03:40 AM
Lala's, I wrote you an entry much earlier today that addressed some Simian posts that you posted.  Did you see it?  I think I'm so tired tonight that I forget what it was about!  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: snoopy on July 26, 2007, 01:04:02 AM
Hi Everybody

BT  check your mail.  Hope you're having a great time.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:06:37 AM
No, actually we have not seen any definitive evidence of a PVDS and Janssen affair.  However, Rob has explained that a source of his on Aruba told him this and he believes him.  So, I guess it really rests on Rob's credibility.  It's kind of like whether or not Lorenzo is PVDS's illegitimate son.  If you believe Jossy's credibility, the you probably believe it.  If not, then you don't.  However, I do think that considering all that taken place in the last two years, both are likely and would not surprise me.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 26, 2007, 01:07:21 AM
Howdy agin Monkeys!  We had a great rainstorm there for a while.  I love the rain.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 26, 2007, 01:11:02 AM
Paulus & his women!  UGGGHHHH :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Astrid

Anita

Karin

What could they possibly see or want with that man?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 01:11:23 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
No, actually we have not seen any definitive evidence of a PVDS and Janssen affair.  However, Rob has explained that a source of his on Aruba told him this and he believes him.  So, I guess it really rests on Rob's credibility.  It's kind of like whether or not Lorenzo is PVDS's illegitimate son.  If you believe Jossy's credibility, the you probably believe it.  If not, then you don't.  However, I do think that considering all that taken place in the last two years, both are likely and would not surprise me.


I saw a post here in the archives I think on  june 17th that said that PVDS had a affair that night and he wasnt home.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 01:12:08 AM
Klaas:

Can you check your email please :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 01:12:11 AM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Paulus & his women!  UGGGHHHH :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Astrid

Anita

Karin

What could they possibly see or want with that man?


What are you saying - that you don't find bald, sweaty men with goofy expressions sexy?  :shock:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 01:13:06 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm outraged and disgusted by the behavior of all the people in Aruba who watched every step of this coverup and did nothing.  They knew of the affair between Paulus and Janssen and turned a blind eye.  They knew of Joran's raping and murdering and made excuses for him.  They know of much more that goes on that we are not aware and they do nothing.  This angers me.


Night Monks......I've been lurking for the most part....have seen some very intersing posts here today. I've  replied to a few...will do some research and get back to you  :?

Sweet Dreams, Destiny...Shango and Simian do have answers.....do you agree with me Buckshot?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 01:13:56 AM
Quote from: "*******"
Klaas:

Can you check your email please :)


Sure


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 26, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Paulus & his women!  UGGGHHHH :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Astrid

Anita

Karin

What could they possibly see or want with that man?


What are you saying - that you don't find bald, sweaty men with goofy expressions sexy?  :shock:  :lol:



That's a big NO,  especially when it's Paulus.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: "Destiny"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm outraged and disgusted by the behavior of all the people in Aruba who watched every step of this coverup and did nothing.  They knew of the affair between Paulus and Janssen and turned a blind eye.  They knew of Joran's raping and murdering and made excuses for him.  They know of much more that goes on that we are not aware and they do nothing.  This angers me.


Night Monks......I've been lurking for the most part....have seen some very intersing posts here today. I've  replied to a few...will do some research and get back to you  :?

Sweet Dreams, Destiny...Shango and Simian do have answers.....do you agree with me Buckshot?


Nite, Destiny. Sleep well.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 01:16:06 AM
Nite Destiny


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 01:17:31 AM
I hear Donna brushing her teeth, so I guess I'll talk to you monkeys tomorrow. :lol:

Sweet dreams everyone.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 01:17:36 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm outraged and disgusted by the behavior of all the people in Aruba who watched every step of this coverup and did nothing.  They knew of the affair between Paulus and Janssen and turned a blind eye.  They knew of Joran's raping and murdering and made excuses for him.  They know of much more that goes on that we are not aware and they do nothing.  This angers me.


I did see them.  Thanks.  I was busy and neglected to say thanks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 01:18:47 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
I think there were and still are some in ALE that truly wanted and expected this to be solved right away.  They were the ones that go to work each day thinking that things are normal. They had no clue as to what lies beneath the calm exterior of Aruba.  I am speaking more of the corruption than the drugs and gambling and stuff.  You don't have to be too smart to see what is happening on the surface...it's when you look under the rug that you see all the roaches.


Like Clyde Burke?


Maybe. I doubt he would be the only one.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 01:18:53 AM
Nite BT nite Donna  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:19:02 AM
We don't seem too "lively" tonight.  I'm tired, too.  I'll talk to you all tomorrow.  Sleep well.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:19:44 AM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
I think there were and still are some in ALE that truly wanted and expected this to be solved right away.  They were the ones that go to work each day thinking that things are normal. They had no clue as to what lies beneath the calm exterior of Aruba.  I am speaking more of the corruption than the drugs and gambling and stuff.  You don't have to be too smart to see what is happening on the surface...it's when you look under the rug that you see all the roaches.


Like Clyde Burke?


Maybe. I doubt he would be the only one.


I agree.  He's just the only one who was willing to talk to us early in the case.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 01:23:22 AM
I think there were several trying to talk to us.  Some were totally unaware of all this corruption.  Believe it or not, I don't think it was as well known as we think.  The tourist part of Aruba was a well oiled machine.  Cainsos, parties, bars, drugs.  Then there is another side of Aruba.  The places where people live and work and don't know about all that stuff or they just look the other way too afraid to face reality.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: the big hammer on July 26, 2007, 01:26:17 AM
Paradise Lost

azlady writes: "Bacchus, that first from out the purple grape crushed the sweet poison of misused wine. John Milton"

From the most under-studied literary genius of all time; t'was he who converted the Latin to English, and gave therefore the tongue we speak today --

A more relevant quote from the same masterpiece, and directed to the sloot which sullies these threads with their own eyes:

Thus spaketh Lucifer, Son of Light:
_________________________________

Which way I fly
is Hell;

Myself am Hell.

And in the lowest deep,
there is a lower deep.

Which still threatening to devour me opens wide,

To which the Hell I suffer,

Seems a Heav'n.


_____________________________________

Sleep well, ye sloot -- to know the eye of Lucifer watches you.  And the eternal and righteous torture ye have earned in an eternal chasm of suffering.  T'was Hat who said a generation of sloots would be damned by the actions of the lowly father, and now proven true.

Cast from the places of civil people, in god's likeness we gather.  But not you, sloot.

Ye are of Lucifer, and are condemned therefore to trod the outlier, away and apart from the places where civil people gather to host.

Twas Paulus' true calling to save the two and sacrfice the one, as the one is deviant and perverse.  He chose the path of evil, and has condemned those who follow.  The sloot of infamy.

SO let it be written, SO let it be done.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 01:26:39 AM
Nite AZLady


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:28:13 AM
AMEN


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 01:28:15 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Paradise Lost

azlady writes: "Bacchus, that first from out the purple grape crushed the sweet poison of misused wine. John Milton"

From the most under-studied literary genius of all time; t'was he who converted the Latin to English, and gave therefore the tongue we speak today --

A more relevant quote from the same masterpiece, and directed to the sloot which sullies these threads with their own eyes:

Thus spaketh Lucifer, Son of Light:
_________________________________

Which way I fly
is Hell;

Myself am Hell.

And in the lowest deep,
there is a lower deep.

Which still threatening to devour me opens wide,

To which the Hell I suffer,

Seems a Heav'n.


_____________________________________

Sleep well, ye sloot -- to know the eye of Lucifer watches you.  And the eternal and righteous torture ye have earned in an eternal chasm of suffering.  T'was Hat who said a generation of sloots would be damned by the actions of the lowly father, and now proven true.

Cast from the places of civil people, in god's likeness we gather.  But not you, sloot.

Ye are of Lucifer, and are condemned therefore to trod the outlier, away and apart from the places where civil people gather to host.

Twas Paulus' true calling to save the two and sacrfice the one, as the one is deviant and perverse.  He chose the path of evil, and has condemned those who follow.  The sloot of infamy.

SO let it be written, SO let it be done.

.


BRAVO Hammer!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:35:40 AM
Yes, the Sloots will be forever marked by the actions of Paulus, the father and patriarch.  Three sons to follow in his footsteps, and this is the inheritance he leaves them.  They are, indeed, a damned clan.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: snoopy on July 26, 2007, 01:38:57 AM
:smt041      :smt041       :smt041

Awesome Hammer!  Awesome!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 01:50:40 AM
On that poetic note I will hug Nemo and see you guys later.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 01:56:59 AM
Nite Lala's

GOODNIGHT ALL!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 26, 2007, 02:00:25 AM
g'night y'all.

Mr Sandman.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: sb on July 26, 2007, 02:19:10 AM
I'm so tired. In more ways than one.

I am tired of all the foolishness... nearly every day, a new tidbit of nonsense from Aruba. Now we have a credible claim that yes indeed KJ and PVDS were having an affair.

That place is a society and a culture all to themselves. They don't know about morality and truth there.

My 2 cent's worth about Rob's info... I am headed to the Bunkey for a much-needed rest. Maybe tomorrow evening I'll stay in longer than I have tonight!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:06:58 AM
Quote from: "Rob"
If you are interested, Grande and I did a post today on a person that seems to have no regard for his wife disappearance today.

Grande had a very extensive conversation with Robert Arnette at Court TV message board. Robert Arnette is the last person seen with Naomi Arnette.

http://tinyurl.com/3bd44n

There will be more on my site from Grande in the next day or so as a family member of missing Naomi Arnette has reached out to Grande on this case.

This person has requested to speak directly to Grande.


Rob - who is Grande? thanks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:04:21 AM
This is in regard to the quote I brought over from ICB last night.  Interesting that rat face would confirm this information.

***************************
charlierat  Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:25 pm

There are dozens and dozens of missing American tourists on Aruba right now that nobody has ever even heard about. They missed their flights home and haven't been seen or heard from since. It happens all the time on Aruba (and the Bahamas and the Caribbean). Their families back home are all still wondering whatever became of them.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 07:13:44 AM
Good Morning.  

I am way behind but happy to be here.  I'll be back when I get caught up.
I just have to know what Easy's talking about....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 07:15:01 AM
Good Morning,

Easy are you suprised Jossy didnt say anything about his article in diario to Dana Pretzer?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:18:48 AM
Quote from: "*******"
Good Morning,

Easy are you suprised Jossy didnt say anything about his article in diario to Dana Pretzer?


Did Dana ask him about the article?  I didn't listen to the program.  Just read here.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:22:14 AM
Quote from: "Peaches"
Good Morning.  

I am way behind but happy to be here.  I'll be back when I get caught up.
I just have to know what Easy's talking about....


Rat pill was just being the typical smarta$$ that he is, but that is an exact quote.

One of the Directors for the DOE Network made an interesting comment about missing person’s cases in Aruba.  I hope I can get more detail from her.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 07:23:16 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "*******"
Good Morning,

Easy are you suprised Jossy didnt say anything about his article in diario to Dana Pretzer?


Did Dana ask him about the article?  I didn't listen to the program.  Just read here.


He didnt ask about the article..Just if anything was new in Aruba or about the case..The answer was no.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:32:21 AM
Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "*******"
Good Morning,

Easy are you suprised Jossy didnt say anything about his article in diario to Dana Pretzer?


Did Dana ask him about the article?  I didn't listen to the program.  Just read here.


He didnt ask about the article..Just if anything was new in Aruba or about the case..The answer was no.


I don't think Jossy is that heavily involved with the daily operations of the Diario these days.  The next generation have taken over those tasks and they exercise editorial control over their many reporters.

I will see if he has had any updates about that article, if you like.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 07:39:09 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "*******"
Good Morning,

Easy are you suprised Jossy didnt say anything about his article in diario to Dana Pretzer?


Did Dana ask him about the article?  I didn't listen to the program.  Just read here.


He didnt ask about the article..Just if anything was new in Aruba or about the case..The answer was no.


I don't think Jossy is that heavily involved with the daily operations of the Diario these days.  The next generation have taken over those tasks and they exercise editorial control over their many reporters.

I will see if he has had any updates about that article, if you like.


It looked like a important article dont ya think? It did say that De Witte would make a announcement this week so maybee we will hear something before saturday..Sure a update would be nice..Thx..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:02:21 AM
Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "*******"
Good Morning,

Easy are you suprised Jossy didnt say anything about his article in diario to Dana Pretzer?


Did Dana ask him about the article?  I didn't listen to the program.  Just read here.


He didnt ask about the article..Just if anything was new in Aruba or about the case..The answer was no.


I don't think Jossy is that heavily involved with the daily operations of the Diario these days.  The next generation have taken over those tasks and they exercise editorial control over their many reporters.

I will see if he has had any updates about that article, if you like.


It looked like a important article dont ya think? It did say that De Witte would make a announcement this week so maybee we will hear something before saturday..Sure a update would be nice..Thx..


It did look like an announcement was impending.  Later I will see if I can find it and see if anymore has happened with that situation.  I believe Jossy is on vacation this week, but he usually keeps a laptop with him on his travels.  We will see.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: sharon on July 26, 2007, 08:06:13 AM
morning monkeys -- and sorry for the OT -- but I've very excited here :lol:  :lol:

Quick shout out to 2NJ

I'm lmao:-)

We're staying at same hotel:-)

I may be easy to find -- I am an aunt (and Godmother) of the groom. His mom is my sister. And my name is sharon. :lol:

Are we related?? lol.

(klaas -- I was hoping 2NJ would wear a monkey shirt with her avatar  :wink: )

klaas -- it's okay if you give 2NJ my email addy -- if you can find it. I will send you an email later today.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 08:22:02 AM
Sharon ~ that is so cool and fun!  That 6 degrees of separation (or whatever it is) sure does apply for you all.  :D  :D
Have a great time, and report back when y'all have time.  :lol:


Title: Dial-Up! Pffft!
Post by: Leslie on July 26, 2007, 08:27:01 AM
Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
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Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 08:34:09 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
This is in regard to the quote I brought over from ICB last night.  Interesting that rat face would confirm this information.

***************************
charlierat  Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:25 pm

There are dozens and dozens of missing American tourists on Aruba right now that nobody has ever even heard about. They missed their flights home and haven't been seen or heard from since. It happens all the time on Aruba (and the Bahamas and the Caribbean). Their families back home are all still wondering whatever became of them.


 :shock:

Hummm it seems as though Charlierat knows about a lot of murders that have taken place on that POS island.  Don't try and twist words now Charlie and say that's not what you meant because that's exactly what you meant.  You specifically mentioned Aruba.  People just don't disappear in thin air they were murdered.  Thanks for the clarification in this matter.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 08:58:55 AM
Does anyone stay in touch with Art Wood or Clint VanZandt? I found them to provide very insightful information when asked about their version of events, as unfolded that fateful evening.  They were PI's on the island, hired by Holloway/Twitty family, and were making good progress prior to Arubans clamming up.  Arubans eventually did clam up after the media frenzy began.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 09:00:56 AM
WOW

Hammer bursts into poem

Now I have seen it all !!!


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Just kidding, nice job Hammer


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 09:16:06 AM
Blah  :lol: that Hammer is the best, isn't he? Go Hammer !!!

This is my morning rah-rah for our Peaches !
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif) (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif) (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif)

I hope Angie gets to feeling better, it seems she may have a pinched nerve now  :? and her hubby had his surgery and is at home on crutches, so we need a prayer for a speedy recovery !!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Paulus & his women!  UGGGHHHH :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Astrid

Anita

Karin

What could they possibly see or want with that man?


Perhaps he has a big deck.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tiger on July 26, 2007, 09:24:15 AM
Well,after Big Hammer all I can say is Bravo.Morning Monkeys.So many missing and dead on aruba,a safe island,eh.I think not>As a monkey,and a Tiger,Paulus does nothing for me. I think there were a series of rapes,with main show at the sloot house,and the final act at the rocks.they may have given her XTC,to stimulate he at some point.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 09:25:09 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
This is in regard to the quote I brought over from ICB last night.  Interesting that rat face would confirm this information.

***************************
charlierat  Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:25 pm

There are dozens and dozens of missing American tourists on Aruba right now that nobody has ever even heard about. They missed their flights home and haven't been seen or heard from since. It happens all the time on Aruba (and the Bahamas and the Caribbean). Their families back home are all still wondering whatever became of them.


 :shock:

Hummm it seems as though Charlierat knows about a lot of murders that have taken place on that POS island.  Don't try and twist words now Charlie and say that's not what you meant because that's exactly what you meant.  You specifically mentioned Aruba.  People just don't disappear in thin air they were murdered.  Thanks for the clarification in this matter.


You bad monkeys you, tag teaming on the rattiest man that way  :lol:  :lol:

FYI he said that I said he knows everything about Aruba but he was mistaken, my quote is so he can copy/cut/paste is as follows:

"Rattiest man thinks he knows everything about Aruba."


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 09:25:42 AM
Quote from: "Peaches"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Paulus & his women!  UGGGHHHH :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Astrid

Anita

Karin

What could they possibly see or want with that man?


Perhaps he has a big deck.


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol: he wishes


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on July 26, 2007, 09:30:01 AM
Good Morning Monkeys!  Working and Lurking---Ugh


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tiger on July 26, 2007, 09:31:41 AM
Big Deck,who cares.I thought Kj had better taste,I hoped.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tiger on July 26, 2007, 09:32:34 AM
The rat speaks volumes ,for a change.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 09:34:57 AM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Blah  :lol: that Hammer is the best, isn't he? Go Hammer !!!

This is my morning rah-rah for our Peaches !
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif) (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif) (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/daisysistah/GIFS/smilies/cheerleader2.gif)

I hope Angie gets to feeling better, it seems she may have a pinched nerve now  :? and her hubby had his surgery and is at home on crutches, so we need a prayer for a speedy recovery !!

Hammer's prose gave me goosebumps ~ what a way with words.

None ~ thanks for the Angie update ~ was wondering last night.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: "Tiger"
The rat speaks volumes ,for a change.


I think he was being facetious and one thing we can be sure of, he will pontificate to correct that  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 09:42:50 AM
hey tcumom- I know San spoke with her last night, I didn't, so she might have further details. I think Angie is reading the lively, she just is trying not to use that hand for typing and busy keeping her hubby off those crutches.

Everyone have a great day, it's hi-ho time for me !!

NJSons_Mom & Sharon, I'll shoot you two a common email so you can connect, how exciting you will meet soon !!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 09:43:23 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Paradise Lost

azlady writes: "Bacchus, that first from out the purple grape crushed the sweet poison of misused wine. John Milton"

From the most under-studied literary genius of all time; t'was he who converted the Latin to English, and gave therefore the tongue we speak today --

A more relevant quote from the same masterpiece, and directed to the sloot which sullies these threads with their own eyes:
Thus spaketh Lucifer, Son of Light:
_________________________________

Which way I fly
is Hell;

Myself am Hell.

And in the lowest deep,
there is a lower deep.

Which still threatening to devour me opens wide,

To which the Hell I suffer,

Seems a Heav'n.


_____________________________________

Sleep well, ye sloot -- to know the eye of Lucifer watches you.  And the eternal and righteous torture ye have earned in an eternal chasm of suffering.  T'was Hat who said a generation of sloots would be damned by the actions of the lowly father, and now proven true.

Cast from the places of civil people, in god's likeness we gather.  But not you, sloot.

Ye are of Lucifer, and are condemned therefore to trod the outlier, away and apart from the places where civil people gather to host.

Twas Paulus' true calling to save the two and sacrfice the one, as the one is deviant and perverse.  He chose the path of evil, and has condemned those who follow.  The sloot of infamy.

SO let it be written, SO let it be done.

.


BRAVO Hammer!


Amen to the Prophet HAMMER

Destiny


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 09:47:25 AM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Does anyone stay in touch with Art Wood or Clint VanZandt? I found them to provide very insightful information when asked about their version of events, as unfolded that fateful evening.  They were PI's on the island, hired by Holloway/Twitty family, and were making good progress prior to Arubans clamming up.  Arubans eventually did clam up after the media frenzy began.


Art Wood made contact with Jossy Mansur early in the investigation and Jossy encouraged him to come to Aruba.  Van Zandt was working on behalf of MSNBC.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 09:50:33 AM
*** O/T Cat Alert ***  :lol:

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Oscar the cat seems to have an uncanny knack for predicting when nursing home patients are going to die, by curling up next to them during their final hours. His accuracy, observed in 25 cases, has led the staff to call family members once he has chosen someone. It usually means they have less than four hours to live.

"He doesn't make too many mistakes. He seems to understand when patients are about to die," said Dr. David Dosa in an interview. He describes the phenomenon in a poignant essay in Thursday's issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

"Many family members take some solace from it. They appreciate the companionship that the cat provides for their dying loved one," said Dosa, a geriatrician and assistant professor of medicine at Brown University.

The 2-year-old feline was adopted as a kitten and grew up in a third-floor dementia unit at the Steere House Nursing and Rehabilitation Center. The facility treats people with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease and other illnesses.

After about six months, the staff noticed Oscar would make his own rounds, just like the doctors and nurses. He'd sniff and observe patients, then sit beside people who would wind up dying in a few hours.
Dosa said Oscar seems to take his work seriously and is generally aloof. "This is not a cat that's friendly to people," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070725/ap_on_fe_st/death_cat


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:51:28 AM
Posted by Reality at BFN (thought I'd capture it before he deletes it):

Reality
Newbie

Posts: 7

    Re: LATEST INFORMATION (VIDEOS & DISCUSSION) - PART 2
« Reply #461 on: Today at 06:26:34 »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For nearly 2 years now, both gagirl and myself have posted on this forum.
During that time both of us have been slandered and bashed in the open forum and even worse in the PM system.
Gagirl has even had her private information splashed over the internet, yet we both have returned to BFN as asked. We are here because we are asked to be here, not to cause problems but to offer our views and opinions to the discussion. To help find answers.

Have any of you ever seen any posts by either gagirl or myself that has bashed, slandered, belittled, accused either Beth, Natalee, Robin or Dave ? And I’m not talking about posts not made by ourselves.
No matter what is rumoured neither of us has ever spoke against the family.

These new statements, call them what you wish, that are now being said about cocaine usage, surely these should be discussed in a civilized manner in order to try and figure out if these things are indeed true, would this not be the prudent thing to do ?

Should  Robin Holloway see any of our posts and objected to the content of that post, both gagirl and myself would have no hesitation in removing the post that offended.

These latest rumours making the rounds about us being part of some Disinformation Group is the most ludicrous thing that has yet been posted on any of these forums and yes, these accusations have been and continue to be made here on BFN.
Time and again, Debbie has posted to address the post not the poster and yet these things are allowed to be posted whenever we attempt a discussion. If we do not respond we are avoiding the question, if we do respond we are derailing the thread. It's a no win situation, and one that could and should be corrected.

I do not include MIP6 in this as I’m sure he will speak for himself.


To answer your question Reality - YES


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:52:49 AM
Posted this morning by GrannyToad at BFN:

About the reported event of Joran having followed and cornered an American girl enroute to the restroom at C&C who'd rebuffed him (from dancing? Why - Joran says he doesn't dance), threatened her with a knife, and told her threateningly that his father is a judge - was that in April or March 2005?

I've forgotten the timeframe other than placing it shortly prior Natalee going to Aruba, and being part of established PATTERNS like dumping (likely drugged, tourist?) girls on the beach when he's done with them. I'd wondered then and still now if there was a PATTERN about finding dumped tourist girls on the beach that Charles Croes recognized being a reason to head toward the lighthouse looking for that car and Joran. I don't think that strategy was a whim on Croes' part.

Although there was no implied threat, there was also the report of a mom with two daughters at C&C of having seen Joran enter through a side door, chat up her daughters, and with a nod to the bartender the 17 year old ordered them each shots of 151. This event was I believe, April 2005, Spring Break.

Earlier 2005, maybe March, a tourist had taken offense at Joran's behavior with his wife at some fast food or donut place. This is the event in which a tourist was thrown up against the plate glass window.

PATTERNS

Joran out of control; violence. Makes it easier to consider the "aluminum baseball bat" report and I would still like to have the general identity of the informant verified.

(*I still have the date of 6Jun2005 in general recall as when the cement pool apron was poured at the vdSloot compound. I recall blog posts at RWV with blacklab (latenight) & tsunder if those cues mean anything to readers)

"Supercop" Jan vdStraaten reportedly offered Joran confinement in a mental institution for a reason. Joran's parents may still be in denial.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:55:38 AM
Another good post by GrannyToad this morning at BFN:

Yes, let us talk about drugs and the cast of Aruban characters.

We have dribbles of references to Joran's use of X, drugging girls' drinks, and purchase (?) of GHB. Got any references to Joran+cocaine prior this O'Reilly discussion? Indirect references that include his island associates may be worth looking into, whether it's Geoffrey vCromvoirt, Michael Dompig, LvRijn, Kalpoes+"Pitbull", Freddy - whoever.

There's a reason Joran, in his words, can put away a case of beer before he can "feel it": that suggests coke use.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 10:02:37 AM
Thanks for bringing that stuff, Klaas.  Granny is really on it today.  

Always enjoy her analysis.  Shows common sense has not been lost forever in the world.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 10:03:28 AM
Reality should get real!  Doesn't he know that people have been collecting his posts for a long time now?  He can't delete them quickly enough. lol

Is this a new game he is playing?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 10:25:21 AM
Morning Fine Monkies  :sunny:

I'm somewhat caught up in the cage, since I'm working from home today, I just might to check in more often.

Good work from everyone last night....some interesting things to ponder over.

Destiny


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 10:41:31 AM
Anyone know what the GLEN THODE MEMORANDUM is?

Case Number: BC363201
DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW
Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending

Future Hearings
08/08/2007 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel ((2)2) Case Management Conference;3) Motion to Dismiss;)

************************
07/18/2007 Objection Document (DEFTS' SUPPLEMENTAL OBJECTIONS TO THE GLEN THODE MEMORANDUM )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent
 
07/18/2007 Objection Document (DEFTS' OBJECTIONS TO CERTAIN EVIDENCE IN PLTFS' SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF RE ARUBAN LAW IN SUPPORT OF OPPO. TO DEFTS' MOITON TO COMPEL )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

07/18/2007 Brief (DEFTS' SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF ON ARUBAN LAW IN SUPPORT OF DEFTS' MOTION TO COMPEL )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 26, 2007, 10:44:29 AM
Quote from: "Tiger"
Well,after Big Hammer all I can say is Bravo.Morning Monkeys.So many missing and dead on aruba,a safe island,eh.I think not>As a monkey,and a Tiger,Paulus does nothing for me. I think there were a series of rapes,with main show at the sloot house,and the final act at the rocks.they may have given her XTC,to stimulate he at some point.


I tend to agree tiger.  If she died from any kind of drug overdose WHY WOULD THERE BE BLOOD EVIDENCE in the car.

I also think that JVDS was also taking XTC and that is why he got out of control and at the very least beat her.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone know what the GLEN THODE MEMORANDUM is?

Case Number: BC363201
DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW
Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending

Future Hearings
08/08/2007 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel ((2)2) Case Management Conference;3) Motion to Dismiss;)

************************
07/18/2007 Objection Document (DEFTS' SUPPLEMENTAL OBJECTIONS TO THE GLEN THODE MEMORANDUM )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent
 
07/18/2007 Objection Document (DEFTS' OBJECTIONS TO CERTAIN EVIDENCE IN PLTFS' SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF RE ARUBAN LAW IN SUPPORT OF OPPO. TO DEFTS' MOITON TO COMPEL )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

07/18/2007 Brief (DEFTS' SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF ON ARUBAN LAW IN SUPPORT OF DEFTS' MOTION TO COMPEL )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent



Don't really know....but here's a tidbit I gound on google FWIW...

McGraw - "New Filings as of June 7"
FYI ~

Posted by Atticus at BFN ~

Quote:
Objection to Glen Thode Memorandum attached to Kalpoe Response

McGraw asks the Court to disregard the memo of Glen Thode attached to Deepaks' Response because Thode does not qualify as an expert in criminal law procedure, he didn't state reasoning for his conclusion that Deepak could face prosecution for violation of Rule 45, and he didnt even give the text of Rule 45, and memo is unsigned undated and unverified.


McGraw Reply to Kalpoe Opposition to Motion to Compel

McGraw asks Court to dismiss Deepak's suit against him because he has refused to turn over documents requested in discovery and his Aruban attorney (Koch) submitted an affidavit saying that he would not release the docs even if Deepak requested them. The argument is that Deepak cant sue Phil for defamation and make all these allegations then turn around and refuse to provide the documents that Phil would need to prepare a defense. I think it's a great argument and Phil will likely prevail on this unless Deepak has a change of heart and decides to produce the documents.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 10:53:06 AM
Lest you all worry that I am truly a terminal case, let me tell you why I expect a miracle.  A couple Sunday mornings ago, I was channel surfing and landed on Joel O’Steen.  I only caught the last couple minutes of his show but my ears perked up when he said “don’t believe the ‘never’.”  He told a story about earlier in his career when he was trying to raise funds for a building.  He heard a lot of “never” but chose not to believe the “never” and went forward, living with gratitude and hope.  

We should live with an attitude of gratitude, hope and expectancy.  It’s better to live with hope and expectancy than with despair and discouragement.  Therefore, we should stay hopeful, make preparations and thank God in expectation.  Keep the vision in front of you and don’t settle.  Some people are content to wait for God to answer their prayers rather than thanking God that the answer is on the way.  One needs to go from waiting (passive) to expecting (active).  

If I believe that God is always with me, I have to believe He knows everything about me and my cancer.  He is the only one who knows the number of my days.  He knows the prayers on the hearts on my family, friends, co-workers and my beloved SM family.  I have to trust that His answer is coming… in His time, not mine.  I have to wait expectantly.  

“For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” – Jeremiah 29:11.

Seems like a simple concept.  Live expectantly.  Expect a miracle.  Thank God the answer is on the way.        

(I put this in the RAH RAH thread in the Lounge as well.)

When I first said I expect a miracle, it slipped by me that some might worry I was lining up for a dirtnap....soon.  NOT!  I may not always feel terrific but I don't look "sick".  If I didn't tell ya I have cancer, you'd never know.  I've lost about 40 lbs. over the last year and a half that I didn't need anyway and much of that was due to surgery and chemo.  I don't recommend chemo as a dieting strategy.  (It's easier to just eat less and move more.)  

So what if I have to have some chemo?  One round down and five to go.  Already went 18 rounds.  What's another six?  What's the alternative?    

I'm still in the fight.  

Expecting my miracle.  

Back to working and lurking.  Smoochies to all.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 10:56:02 AM
I believe that Glen Thode is just some dude maybe a lawyer in Aruba who wrote a letter to the judge in the slander case stating that Aruba has some ridiculous law (article 45 or some nonsense) that Deepak is trying to use to his advantage.  Basically the law says Deepak doesnt have to share any information he doesnt want to.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 26, 2007, 10:58:24 AM
this law suit could very well be the undoing of the stupid kalpoes.  when you sue McGraw, you are also suing Oprah and you better brings some big ass guns for that!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 11:02:48 AM
Quote from: "JuJu"
this law suit could very well be the undoing of the stupid kalpoes.  when you sue McGraw, you are also suing Oprah and you better brings some big ass guns for that!!!


In aruba, they are just so used to lying their way through everything that they think they can just lie their way through this slander case.  In Aruba, people always just belived their lies.  They have a big awakening comming in this slander suit!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 11:04:05 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/thCoffeewithme11-26-1.gif)

Morning, Monkeys,

At one time, we had the name of the concrete company at RWV.  Granny Toad was one of a team of really good researchers and thinkers.  She lasted longer than most of us, LOL.  I believe that someone actually posted a copy of the invoice, too.

So much lost with computer crashes, mystery deletions and time.  Guess that's the idea so as to make this impossible to prosecute.  

But until that concrete is dug up, I will never consider the Sloot compound as having been truly searched even though I will readily admit there may be nothing there.

Not one bit of this investigation has been done accordng to anything I have ever seen before.  Not one!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/coffee/thgmdogs.gif)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 11:06:06 AM
EASY - read this Dr. Phil response as it explains more who Glen Thode is:

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/Kalpoe_v_McGraw/Def_d053007a.pdf


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 26, 2007, 11:15:41 AM
all roads keep leading back to the Sloot house and Pauls involvement.  A couple of things that seal the deal for me......

Paulus sweating episode with bet and Greta......some kind of evidence was in that house and he was afraid that might see it

Anita knowing what Nat's panties looked like.....sporter did not tell her, I think she found them at the house

Paulus in the Casino with Nat earlier in the evening

Search warrant denied for the main house

the new concrete slab....either the body or some kind of evidence bured there

and too many others to mention


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 26, 2007, 11:17:51 AM
sorry, cannot spell or type today...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 11:18:49 AM
Quote from: "Destiny"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone know what the GLEN THODE MEMORANDUM is?

Case Number: BC363201
DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW
Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending

Future Hearings
08/08/2007 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel ((2)2) Case Management Conference;3) Motion to Dismiss;)

************************
07/18/2007 Objection Document (DEFTS' SUPPLEMENTAL OBJECTIONS TO THE GLEN THODE MEMORANDUM )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent
 
07/18/2007 Objection Document (DEFTS' OBJECTIONS TO CERTAIN EVIDENCE IN PLTFS' SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF RE ARUBAN LAW IN SUPPORT OF OPPO. TO DEFTS' MOITON TO COMPEL )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

07/18/2007 Brief (DEFTS' SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF ON ARUBAN LAW IN SUPPORT OF DEFTS' MOTION TO COMPEL )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent



Don't really know....but here's a tidbit I gound on google FWIW...

McGraw - "New Filings as of June 7"
FYI ~

Posted by Atticus at BFN ~

Quote:
Objection to Glen Thode Memorandum attached to Kalpoe Response

McGraw asks the Court to disregard the memo of Glen Thode attached to Deepaks' Response because Thode does not qualify as an expert in criminal law procedure, he didn't state reasoning for his conclusion that Deepak could face prosecution for violation of Rule 45, and he didnt even give the text of Rule 45, and memo is unsigned undated and unverified.


McGraw Reply to Kalpoe Opposition to Motion to Compel

McGraw asks Court to dismiss Deepak's suit against him because he has refused to turn over documents requested in discovery and his Aruban attorney (Koch) submitted an affidavit saying that he would not release the docs even if Deepak requested them. The argument is that Deepak cant sue Phil for defamation and make all these allegations then turn around and refuse to provide the documents that Phil would need to prepare a defense. I think it's a great argument and Phil will likely prevail on this unless Deepak has a change of heart and decides to produce the documents.

Very interesting that Deepak's lawyer Koch would not listen to his client.  Last I heard if a lawyer was taking my hard earned drug money he better be listening to my orders.  Goes to show you who's the boss over the Kalpoes.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 11:21:02 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
Morning, Monkeys,

At one time, we had the name of the concrete company at RWV.  Granny Toad was one of a team of really good researchers and thinkers.  She lasted longer than most of us, LOL.  I believe that someone actually posted a copy of the invoice, too.

So much lost with computer crashes, mystery deletions and time.  Guess that's the idea so as to make this impossible to prosecute.  

But until that concrete is dug up, I will never consider the Sloot compound as having been truly searched even though I will readily admit there may be nothing there.

Not one bit of this investigation has been done accordng to anything I have ever seen before.  Not one!

And I want to know exactly what was picked up and/or delivered by that furniture/fish/whatever-it-was truck.  Or, do we know and I was zoned out when the answer came out.... :shock:  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 11:21:52 AM
After reading the first 6 pages of that... ( I don't have the time to read all 72) I would say

they don't understand our system.. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 11:23:09 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/thCoffeewithme11-26-1.gif)

Morning, Monkeys,

At one time, we had the name of the concrete company at RWV.  Granny Toad was one of a team of really good researchers and thinkers.  She lasted longer than most of us, LOL.  I believe that someone actually posted a copy of the invoice, too.

So much lost with computer crashes, mystery deletions and time.  Guess that's the idea so as to make this impossible to prosecute.  

But until that concrete is dug up, I will never consider the Sloot compound as having been truly searched even though I will readily admit there may be nothing there.

Not one bit of this investigation has been done accordng to anything I have ever seen before.  Not one!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/coffee/thgmdogs.gif)


The other night I was watching one of those true crime type shows on cable.  A woman had been missing for several years and a tip or something led the cops to a suspect that happened to be a builder.  The guy had apparently built a town home or such about the time the woman disappeared.  They focused on the concrete floor of the garage for some reason.  They scanned over the floor with some type of sonar equipment until they found an area that looked suspicious.  They then saw-cut the floor and began to excavate.  In that case they found nothing, but it was interesting that they had a procedure in place for such investigations.

We don’t really know what all was done at the vds property.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 11:23:44 AM
Morning monkeys.

Peaches!   Hugs and love coming your way.


If everyone doesn't mind I would like to revisit something I read either yesterday or the day before.  It was concerning when Natalee died.  I think maybe it was Hammer's post, but the person was talking about Joran already knowing by the next day that Natalee was missing and dead.  Does anyone remember that?  I would like to know where we obtained that info about her on the beach and drowning or something like that. TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tiger on July 26, 2007, 11:24:20 AM
Aruban law does not trump California law in Cal.I think NAH may have fallen trying to escape from the sloot house.She may have been hit by the bat of jvds,when she fought the two of them.They disgust and sicken me.Time is right,for NAH to come home,and justice(whatever) that may be.IIRC,Dahmer was confined to a mental hospital,woops,now a cemetary.I have no problem,with that at all.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on July 26, 2007, 11:25:12 AM
Quote from: "Peaches"
Lest you all worry that I am truly a terminal case, let me tell you why I expect a miracle.  A couple Sunday mornings ago, I was channel surfing and landed on Joel O’Steen.  I only caught the last couple minutes of his show but my ears perked up when he said “don’t believe the ‘never’.”  He told a story about earlier in his career when he was trying to raise funds for a building.  He heard a lot of “never” but chose not to believe the “never” and went forward, living with gratitude and hope.  

We should live with an attitude of gratitude, hope and expectancy.  It’s better to live with hope and expectancy than with despair and discouragement.  Therefore, we should stay hopeful, make preparations and thank God in expectation.  Keep the vision in front of you and don’t settle.  Some people are content to wait for God to answer their prayers rather than thanking God that the answer is on the way.  One needs to go from waiting (passive) to expecting (active).  

If I believe that God is always with me, I have to believe He knows everything about me and my cancer.  He is the only one who knows the number of my days.  He knows the prayers on the hearts on my family, friends, co-workers and my beloved SM family.  I have to trust that His answer is coming… in His time, not mine.  I have to wait expectantly.  

“For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” – Jeremiah 29:11.

Seems like a simple concept.  Live expectantly.  Expect a miracle.  Thank God the answer is on the way.        

(I put this in the RAH RAH thread in the Lounge as well.)

When I first said I expect a miracle, it slipped by me that some might worry I was lining up for a dirtnap....soon.  NOT!  I may not always feel terrific but I don't look "sick".  If I didn't tell ya I have cancer, you'd never know.  I've lost about 40 lbs. over the last year and a half that I didn't need anyway and much of that was due to surgery and chemo.  I don't recommend chemo as a dieting strategy.  (It's easier to just eat less and move more.)  

So what if I have to have some chemo?  One round down and five to go.  Already went 18 rounds.  What's another six?  What's the alternative?    

I'm still in the fight.  

Expecting my miracle.  

Back to working and lurking.  Smoochies to all.


As I type thru tear filled eyes, I sit here in awe of you Peaches.  What you have written in this post is a Life Lesson that applies to all facets of someones lives.  I really needed to hear this and I will apply this to my life.  Thank you for blessing me today.

I have no doubt in my mind that you will come thru this with flying colors.  I have such respect for you - You are a true inspiration.  

God has blessed me through you.  (((hugs)))


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 11:25:18 AM
Quote from: "blah"
I believe that Glen Thode is just some dude maybe a lawyer in Aruba who wrote a letter to the judge in the slander case stating that Aruba has some ridiculous law (article 45 or some nonsense) that Deepak is trying to use to his advantage.  Basically the law says Deepak doesnt have to share any information he doesnt want to.

I don't care what the laws are in Aruba when you are here in the U.S. using our judicial system for your own benefit.  He can shove that Aruba law where the sun don't shine.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 26, 2007, 11:25:20 AM
I posted the Diario article on this one on the M&C thread yesterday.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   07/26/2007

Quote
Supermarket owners shot in the leg during a hold-up  

ORANJESTAD – A Chinese supermarket in Mabon was attacked with a weapon last night.  The two owners were shot in the leg during the hold-up.  

The incident took place around 22:00.  Three armed persons with masks entered the building of Famia Supermarket and demanded the contents of the cash register.  When, according to them this didn’t happen fast enough, they shot on the owners.  One of the owners also received a blow in the face.  The attackers then left the building without the booty and disappeared in the bushes.  

The police patrol from San Nicolas, Sta. Cruz, and Oranjestad and the police helicopter searched the area for the attackers.  The police arrested two suspects; the third one is still being looked for.

The owner of the supermarket and his wife were taken to the medical center in San Nicolas for treatment.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tiger on July 26, 2007, 11:25:21 AM
Oh Peaches,miracles do happen.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 11:28:45 AM
I see.  Thode is just giving his opinion on Aruban law.  Who cares!  They didn't bring their law suit in Aruba.  They chose to play with the big boys in U.S. law!

This has got to be costing someone some BIG bucks!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 11:29:18 AM
Kimmy - I posted pretty much the same thing in the MLounge!  it was amazing for Peaches to be lifting us up today!!

Beachwego... I see you lurking... HEY!  good to see you...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: "Tiger"
Oh Peaches,miracles do happen.


Good morning all.  I was just reading along, catching up and wanted to comment on Tiger's post.  

Yes, I believe miracles happen too. Peaches, you sound like you have your heart and mind in the right place, set for healing.  Love you a lot and appreciate your posts and positive outlook.  It is contagious :)  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 11:30:52 AM
Easy,
Seems like this one will be tossed due to "our system".

Lala's... it had to do with Joran being at school the next day.. I believe ANNA is the one that posted about that... how joran knew she wasn't alive.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 26, 2007, 11:34:06 AM
I posted this the other day ...

There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can live as if everything is a miracle.
- Albert Einstein


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 11:36:50 AM
Quote from: "Tiger"
Oh Peaches,miracles do happen.


Yes Peaches...they really really do!

Thank You for such a life inspiring post.

Blessings and Prayers for You...

Wind


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: "Anna"

Morning, Monkeys,

At one time, we had the name of the concrete company at RWV.  Granny Toad was one of a team of really good researchers and thinkers.  She lasted longer than most of us, LOL.  I believe that someone actually posted a copy of the invoice, too.

So much lost with computer crashes, mystery deletions and time.  Guess that's the idea so as to make this impossible to prosecute.  

But until that concrete is dug up, I will never consider the Sloot compound as having been truly searched even though I will readily admit there may be nothing there.

Not one bit of this investigation has been done accordng to anything I have ever seen before.  Not one!


{EDITED}


I agree Anna.  I have no faith that the KLPD is doing the right thing but that doesn't mean I give up.

Our FBI knows exactly what happened and I will keep my faith in them that they will come through one day and blow the top off Aruba.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 11:47:46 AM
In case some have forgotten with the push by the disinformation team placing blame on the victim:

JORAN - JUNE 13TH 2005 SUSPECT STATEMENT report by Jan van der Straten

Proces-verbaal findings

I, Jan van der STRATEN, police chief with the Aruban Police Corps, state the following.

On Monday June 13th 2005, at approximately 13.00 hours I spoke informally with the suspect Joran Andreas Petrus v/d SLOOT at the police station in Oranjestad.

On my question to Joran whether he can tell me what happened after the girl had fallen asleep on the beach near Fisherman's Hut, he answered:

“I called DEEPAK and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her.”

To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”


During the conversation Joran showed differing emotions. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he was direct in his answers.

Joran also indicated that he was very sorry for his family and that he had the best contact with his father.

When I asked him why did he lie to his father about the Holiday Inn, Joran answered that he had disappointed his father in/with that.

Of this I reported on my oath as officer on June 17th 2005.


J. van der STRATEN


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 11:50:03 AM
I think the plaintiffs want to use Thode as an expert witness under their rules.  Dr. Phil's attorney is saying Thode isn't' qualified to be an expert witness and why.

I only read a little about Thode.  Book smart.  No actual experience.  

In the end, whatever evidence Thode supposedly possessed was deemed "not competent to support Plaintiff's Opposition".  

Probably sounded like an expert to somebody...... :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 11:52:00 AM
Thank you Mrs. Red.  Was that Anna's post, I am sorry.  I have been back looking, but I didn't find it.  

Anna, if it was your post, do you have any idea where we came up with the information?  Was it in and interview or reported on television?  TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 11:55:43 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I see.  Thode is just giving his opinion on Aruban law.  Who cares!  They didn't bring their law suit in Aruba.  They chose to play with the big boys in U.S. law!

This has got to be costing someone some BIG bucks!


I wonder if the lawyers in Aruba do cases on a contigency basis.  Bet not.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 11:59:06 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
When reading archives I found a post by arubagirl where she stated that Anita would not have to answer any questions or give details that would be negative towards Paulus...I'm just wondering if the same would hold true with the younger sons....will have to try to find the post....if it was front page...will let Klaas or San know for a copy & paste....

I find this to be a convenient excuse by Aruba.  If it wasn't a law then in Aruba it's a law now. :roll:


It took a while to find the post:

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If Jug said that, and AvdS is going to be detained, then I guess we know who's running the show.

AvdS wasn't on the island, so she couldn't see/hear anything. And anything that JvdS told her she doesn't have to reveal, so basically, there is no point._________________
Reading, internet, genealogy.
 


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: snoopy on July 26, 2007, 12:01:11 PM
Quote from: "blah"
WOW

Hammer bursts into poem

Now I have seen it all !!!


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Just kidding, nice job Hammer


Wasn't that awesome!  What a way to close out the day.  I think I shall be expecting one of those each evening from now on.  Hammer?

Good Morning everybody!!  Can't believe I just woke up.  Hot shower and Advil take me away.

Sharon  How cool is that about you and 2NJ.  Ya'll have a wonderful time, and we'll be expecting a full report!  Pictures and everything.  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 12:02:21 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Thank you Mrs. Red.  Was that Anna's post, I am sorry.  I have been back looking, but I didn't find it.  

Anna, if it was your post, do you have any idea where we came up with the information?  Was it in and interview or reported on television?  TIA



Granny Toad posted recently about how she and I did a very detailed summary of the first 24 hours back in Sept 2005.  The sources were classmates of Joran, headmaster, Jug, etc.  There was also an interview of the HM which was never posted on the internet to my knowledge.  I don't remember the channel it was on but think it was Discovery for some reason.  Was not a regular news channel.  That is where I got the Spanish Lagoon idea.

I don't keep many files any more and she doesn't either.  I have posted segments of it here many times but they are usually rejected out of hand.  Recently Dave made the casual comment he doesn't think Joran was at school on Monday.  That is not what his classmates said at the time but I am sure it would be used to refute anything I have to say on the matter.

You can get most of the first day from the interviews of Jug in regard to what the headmaster told his friends when they went to the school that Joran attended to put up the posters about Natalee being missing.

Hope that helps.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 12:03:06 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
When reading archives I found a post by arubagirl where she stated that Anita would not have to answer any questions or give details that would be negative towards Paulus...I'm just wondering if the same would hold true with the younger sons....will have to try to find the post....if it was front page...will let Klaas or San know for a copy & paste....

I find this to be a convenient excuse by Aruba.  If it wasn't a law then in Aruba it's a law now. :roll:


It took a while to find the post:

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If Jug said that, and AvdS is going to be detained, then I guess we know who's running the show.

AvdS wasn't on the island, so she couldn't see/hear anything. And anything that JvdS told her she doesn't have to reveal, so basically, there is no point._________________
Reading, internet, genealogy.
 


Oh, and obviously the post was referring to JVDS, not PVDS...my memory slipped there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 26, 2007, 12:09:35 PM
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/7/26/

Quote
Victima a perde dede
DETENCION PA MALTRATO SERIO CU MACHETE NA SANTA CRUZ

 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Diaranzon merdia un caso serio a socede banda di stacion di gasoline na Santa Cruz. Esnan cu a presencia loke a socede no por a kere nan wowo, ora cu un homber a saca un machete y menaza un otro chofer.

Segun informe cu e homber di fam P, cu ta traha pa un compania local a bay tank. Na dado momento a surgi un problema ora cu e agresor tabata kier pa e homber P. hala su vehiculo. Pero e momento ey tabata dificil y imposible pa e por a hala esaki. E aggressor no a gusta y a bay na su auto regresa cu un machete.

E chofer P a baha glas pa asina atende e aggressor. E ultimo segun informe a pone e arma peligroso aki na garganta di P. Consecuentemente P. a bay tene e machete y e agresor a ranca esaki y consecuentemente pink (dede chikito) casi a worde ranca kita afor di su man.

Sanger a core formal for di e herida y mientras polis, ambulans a worde notifica mesora. Informe ta indica cu ambulans su persona a duna prome auxilio y a transporta e victima cu su dede colega rumbo pa hospital.

No ta conoci si medico specialista ciruhano plastico a logra purba pega e dede na su lugar pa asina scapa e pink di e victima. Mientras segun informe polis a detene e agressor, y e machete a worde confisca. No ta conoci si lo tin instalacion di camera na e station di gasolin cu a capta tur locual a tuma lugar.


Online Pap translation:

victima owing to lose finger
detencion for maltrato earnest cu machete at santa cruz


oranjestad (aan): diaranzon afternoon one caso earnest owing to socede near of stacion of gasoline at santa cruz. esnan cu owing to presencia thing owing to socede not can owing to believe they eye, hour cu one man owing to saca one machete y menaza one another chofer.

according informe cu he of surname P, cu is work for one compania local owing to bay tank. at dado instant owing to surgi one problem hour cu the aggressor was wanted for he therefore. wing his vehiculo. but the instant ey was dificil y imposible for her can owing to wing this. the aggressor not owing to like y owing to bay at his car return cu one machete.

the chofer therefore owing to descend glass for so atende the aggressor. the ultimo according informe owing to place the arm dangerous here at throat of therefore. consecuentemente therefore. owing to bay as the machete y the aggressor owing to ranca this y consecuentemente pink (dede chikito) casi owing to worde ranca less afor of his hand.

blood owing to core serious for of the injury y while police, ambulance owing to worde notifica at once. informe is indica cu ambulance his person owing to give first help y owing to transporta the victima cu his finger colega direction for hospital.

do not conoci if medico specialista ciruhano plastico owing to succeed try stick the finger at his lugar for so scapa the pink of the victima. while according informe police owing to detene the agressor, y the machete owing to worde confisca. do not conoci if will have instalacion of camera at the station of gasolene cu owing to capta all locual did take lugar.

* * *
Quote
El a stroba malhechornan tira para
KICO TIN TRAS DI E MALTRATO DI UN GUARDIA NA SAVANETA

 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): For di vocero policial oficialmente a keda relata un caso serio cu a socede Diamars madruga.

Den oranan di marduga segun e informe policial a keda reporta via di Central di Polis, cu ta solicita presencia di patruya policial na un cas cerca di laman na Savaneta. Polis cu a presenta na e direccion a topa un Security Guard di inicialnan M.D. di 41 ańa. E homber segun polis a observa tin un cap di mas o menos 1 centimeter na su wenkbrauw robez. E herida ta sangra basta!

For di declaracion di e victima a saca afor, cu e ta trahando como guardia di seguridad na e cas cu ta construi banda di laman. Na un dado momento segun e guardia, dos homber desconoci pe, un di e hombernan a dale cu un pida palo den su cara cu e consecuencia ariba menciona.

E palo cu un di e homber nan a usa a worde haya na un distancia, esaki a keda confisca como evidencia.

Tabata dificil pa e victima por a describi e malhechornan cu a sorprende debi na scuridad. Mientras tanto ambulans a transporta e victima pa chequeo medico. E caso ta bao di investigacion pa determina kico tin tras di e sosedido.


Online Pap translation:

past owing to stroba malhechornan throw stop
kico have behind the maltrato of one guardia at savaneta


oranjestad (aan): for of vocero policial oficialmente owing to stay relata one caso earnest cu owing to socede tuesday madruga.

in oranan of marduga according the informe policial owing to stay reporta via of central of police, cu is solicita presencia of patrol policial at one cas close of sea at savaneta. police cu owing to present at the direccion owing to come across one security guard of inicialnan m.d. of 41 year. he according police owing to observa have one cap of more or less 1 centimeter at his wenkbrauw robez. the injury is bleed enough!

for of declaracion of the victima owing to saca afor, cu the is trahando because; guardia of seguridad at the cas cu is construi near of sea. at one dado instant according the guardia, two man desconoci pe, one of the hombernan owing to dale cu one piece tree in his cara cu the consecuencia upstairs menciona.

the tree cu one of he they owing to using owing to worde achieve at one distancia, this owing to stay confisca because; evidencia.

was dificil for her victima can owing to describi the malhechornan cu owing to sorprende debi at scuridad. all the time ambulance owing to transporta the victima for chequeo medico. the caso is bao of investigacion for determina kico have behind the sosedido.

* * *


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/thCoffeewithme11-26-1.gif)

Morning, Monkeys,

At one time, we had the name of the concrete company at RWV.  Granny Toad was one of a team of really good researchers and thinkers.  She lasted longer than most of us, LOL.  I believe that someone actually posted a copy of the invoice, too.

So much lost with computer crashes, mystery deletions and time.  Guess that's the idea so as to make this impossible to prosecute.  

But until that concrete is dug up, I will never consider the Sloot compound as having been truly searched even though I will readily admit there may be nothing there.

Not one bit of this investigation has been done accordng to anything I have ever seen before.  Not one!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/coffee/thgmdogs.gif)


wasnt it some pool company that did the concrete work?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 12:14:34 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
When reading archives I found a post by arubagirl where she stated that Anita would not have to answer any questions or give details that would be negative towards Paulus...I'm just wondering if the same would hold true with the younger sons....will have to try to find the post....if it was front page...will let Klaas or San know for a copy & paste....

I find this to be a convenient excuse by Aruba.  If it wasn't a law then in Aruba it's a law now. :roll:


It took a while to find the post:

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If Jug said that, and AvdS is going to be detained, then I guess we know who's running the show.

AvdS wasn't on the island, so she couldn't see/hear anything. And anything that JvdS told her she doesn't have to reveal, so basically, there is no point._________________
Reading, internet, genealogy.
 

Thanks 2NJSons.  What I was referring to was why the two sons weren't interrogated.  Paulus dragged both of them into their alibi by mentioning them in their PV's.  Paulus said the youngest son was with a family friend and he was dropping him off at home so he had to be there when he got home.  He also said he made sure they got on the school bus.

A simple question to the boys would have been were you at your friends house and the other would have been did you go to school Monday and Tuesday and was your brother Joran with you.

If you can use them as your alibi then they should be questioned.

In my opinion they won't be questioned because they were not home and if they are caught lying they would be in trouble.

They will not risk this because I believe there is evidence that proves the boys were in Holland with Anita.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 12:14:46 PM
Morning monkeys. I'm peeking in from a training room to say hello. Our first speaker of the day is stuck in traffic on the Golden Gate bridge and thinks she will be at least 30 minutes late.  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: "blah"
wasnt it some pool company that did the concrete work?


From memory, of course, but no.  The concrete was an add on done later.  I remember it as a concrete and backhoe company.  JMO, of course.  Don't have the hard drive any more it was saved on, fried, etc.



.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:16:42 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "blah"
I believe that Glen Thode is just some dude maybe a lawyer in Aruba who wrote a letter to the judge in the slander case stating that Aruba has some ridiculous law (article 45 or some nonsense) that Deepak is trying to use to his advantage.  Basically the law says Deepak doesnt have to share any information he doesnt want to.

I don't care what the laws are in Aruba when you are here in the U.S. using our judicial system for your own benefit.  He can shove that Aruba law where the sun don't shine.


Hey dont shoot the messenger!!!

I'm just answering the question about this Thode BS


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 12:19:49 PM
San,

Same with Ruth Dijkhoff, John Croes and others that I'm not recalling, now.  (Ruth, if same as in the obituary, conveniently is not available)

I understand what you are saying, but was thinking of immedfiate family & immunity as having been discussed.  What seems logical to us is not necessarily the same there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:21:47 PM
Quote from: "Peaches"
I think the plaintiffs want to use Thode as an expert witness under their rules.  Dr. Phil's attorney is saying Thode isn't' qualified to be an expert witness and why.

I only read a little about Thode.  Book smart.  No actual experience.  

In the end, whatever evidence Thode supposedly possessed was deemed "not competent to support Plaintiff's Opposition".  

Probably sounded like an expert to somebody...... :roll:


right!  For this Thode's statement to be allowed he would have to be qualified as an expert witness.  For him the be qualified as an expert witness he would first have to be cross examined which is never going to happen.  This is all besides that fact that who gives a rats ass what Aruban law says when you are in an American courtroom?


This case will be dismissed and then Dr Phil should go after Deepak for attempted extortion


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 12:22:10 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Anna"

Morning, Monkeys,

At one time, we had the name of the concrete company at RWV.  Granny Toad was one of a team of really good researchers and thinkers.  She lasted longer than most of us, LOL.  I believe that someone actually posted a copy of the invoice, too.

So much lost with computer crashes, mystery deletions and time.  Guess that's the idea so as to make this impossible to prosecute.  

But until that concrete is dug up, I will never consider the Sloot compound as having been truly searched even though I will readily admit there may be nothing there.

Not one bit of this investigation has been done accordng to anything I have ever seen before.  Not one!


wasnt it some pool company that did the concrete work?


VMS posted this info a while back.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/VDSPool.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Willyspools.gif)

http://www.willyspoolsnv.com


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:23:50 PM
Thanks Anna.  I do indeed remember this story and I was thinking the same thing about Joran being in school the next day.  I too, think he made that day in school.  There are some where on the internet the stories about this.  I don't have the organizational skills that others do in regard to finding things but, I  remember the stories of his lying around and sleeping and also talking about Natalee.  I was trying to pin down for sure if Joran really was at school that day.  Since we have rumors of him being picked up by the school bus near Lorenzo's I was curious once again if, given the additional info we have now, could we establish as fact that he was at school the next day.  I wonder if anyone else has any ideas? Please.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "blah"
wasnt it some pool company that did the concrete work?


From memory, of course, but no.  The concrete was an add on done later.  I remember it as a concrete and backhoe company.  JMO, of course.  Don't have the hard drive any more it was saved on, fried, etc.



.


allright, I have no clue then  :lol:

my memory sucks, if i dont write something down - its gone forever!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Sue on July 26, 2007, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "blah"
I believe that Glen Thode is just some dude maybe a lawyer in Aruba who wrote a letter to the judge in the slander case stating that Aruba has some ridiculous law (article 45 or some nonsense) that Deepak is trying to use to his advantage.  Basically the law says Deepak doesnt have to share any information he doesnt want to.

I don't care what the laws are in Aruba when you are here in the U.S. using our judicial system for your own benefit.  He can shove that Aruba law where the sun don't shine.


Hey dont shoot the messenger!!!

I'm just answering the question about this Thode BS


What is critical is our US courts ordering them to provide all the information that they are compelled to put fourth or there case should be thrown out.. I cant believe they filed a suit while they are still suspect in a crime...  We have to see if the US  courts let us down..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:29:52 PM
I should let y'all know that all of my great knowledge of the law comes from "My Cousin Vinny"

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:30:37 PM
Are we trying to establish that the concrete work was done later?  I am confused.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 12:30:44 PM
I see Beachwego lurking. Waving madly!  :smt006


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:31:17 PM
That and the fact that I have had a few "brushes" with the law  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: snoopy on July 26, 2007, 12:32:28 PM
Beachwego I see you out there, and wanted to say hi!  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:32:37 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
I see Beachwego lurking. Waving madly!  :smt006


And they are paying you to...talk to us?  What a great job.  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:32:47 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Are we trying to establish that the concrete work was done later?  I am confused.


well thats already a proven fact isnt it?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Sue on July 26, 2007, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: "blah"
That and the fact that I have had a few "brushes" with the law  :lol:  :lol:


werent you impeached also  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:33:51 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Are we trying to establish that the concrete work was done later?  I am confused.


well thats already a proven fact isnt it?


Are you trying to be funny today?  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
Quote from: "blah"
That and the fact that I have had a few "brushes" with the law  :lol:  :lol:


werent you impeached also  :wink:


I never said i'd make a good witness!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:36:54 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Are we trying to establish that the concrete work was done later?  I am confused.


well thats already a proven fact isnt it?


Are you trying to be funny today?  :roll:


huh?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Sue on July 26, 2007, 12:39:01 PM
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: snoopy on July 26, 2007, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


I would put my money on forensic evidence such as blood spatter or something of that nature.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


My opinion is, if I were the lead investigator in this case and was looking for clues as to what happened to Natalee, the very first place I would look is under that concrete.  This is by far one of the most suspicious things the Sloots could have done while being suspects in this case.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: greeneyedlady on July 26, 2007, 12:43:21 PM
Peaches-I want to say you are an inspiration to us all.I admire your spunk and great optimism.I wish you the best in all the things you do.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 12:44:08 PM
Afternoon Monkeys!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: snoopy on July 26, 2007, 12:44:51 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Are we trying to establish that the concrete work was done later?  I am confused.


well thats already a proven fact isnt it?


Are you trying to be funny today?  :roll:


huh?


You two behave today.  Blah don't make her
get those pencils out. :lol:  :lol:

BBL  Gotta get some work done.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
Peaches-I want to say you are an inspiration to us all.I admire your spunk and great optimism.I wish you the best in all the things you do.


Thank you, GEL.  I was afraid the other day when I said I expected a miracle that people would think I was really sick or had given up.  Simply not the case.  I'm still in the fight.  Still hoping and praying for miracles for all who need them.  And couldn't we all use a miracle?  I'm sure Beth and Dave could use a miracle right now.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:47:53 PM
Yeah!  What Snoopy said...you go dawg!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Sue on July 26, 2007, 12:48:49 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Sue"
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


My opinion is, if I were the lead investigator in this case and was looking for clues as to what happened to Natalee, the very first place I would look is under that concrete.  This is by far one of the most suspicious things the Sloots could have done while being suspects in this case.


Yes but to determine what is new cement and what was prior..
I know for FACT as I have installed a inground pool in my back yard
that once the pool is in ground and the pipes are complete they pack the remainder with sand that they pour a minimum of a 3 foot skirt around the pool as that is what helps hold the pool in the ground they even pour the concrete under the edges of pool 1/2 foot thick or more.. so I would say if there is any evidence it is more then 3 feet away from that Pool


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 12:53:24 PM
Well, I guess nobody knows if Joran was really at school or not...I think I will just go somewhere and read for a while.  Geesh!  You guys are a tough crowd.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 12:53:42 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Sue"
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


My opinion is, if I were the lead investigator in this case and was looking for clues as to what happened to Natalee, the very first place I would look is under that concrete.  This is by far one of the most suspicious things the Sloots could have done while being suspects in this case.


Yes but to determine what is new cement and what was prior..
I know for FACT as I have installed a inground pool in my back yard
that once the pool is in ground and the pipes are complete they pack the remainder with sand that they pour a minimum of a 3 foot skirt around the pool as that is what helps hold the pool in the ground they even pour the concrete under the edges of pool 1/2 foot thick or more.. so I would say if there is any evidence it is more then 3 feet away from that Pool


Don't know if this is something that is known or has been discussed, but does anyone know if the pool was completely re-cemented, or was just an area re-covered or what was actually done? Just thinking about possibly blood stains on the concrete. Concrete is porus and I would assume it would be tough to remove a blood stain. Any thoughts?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:54:40 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Sue"
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


My opinion is, if I were the lead investigator in this case and was looking for clues as to what happened to Natalee, the very first place I would look is under that concrete.  This is by far one of the most suspicious things the Sloots could have done while being suspects in this case.


Yes but to determine what is new cement and what was prior..
I know for FACT as I have installed a inground pool in my back yard
that once the pool is in ground and the pipes are complete they pack the remainder with sand that they pour a minimum of a 3 foot skirt around the pool as that is what helps hold the pool in the ground they even pour the concrete under the edges of pool 1/2 foot thick or more.. so I would say if there is any evidence it is more then 3 feet away from that Pool


I believe the concrete in question is a sort of walkway or patio near or next to the pool.  It is not some part of the pool or support structure for the pool.  At any rate, If I was lead investigator, the whole damn patio, pool, backyard and driveway would be torn out.  I would leave no stone unturned on that property.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 12:55:38 PM
Quote from: "Peaches"
Quote from: "greeneyedlady"
Peaches-I want to say you are an inspiration to us all.I admire your spunk and great optimism.I wish you the best in all the things you do.


Thank you, GEL.  I was afraid the other day when I said I expected a miracle that people would think I was really sick or had given up.  Simply not the case.  I'm still in the fight.  Still hoping and praying for miracles for all who need them.  And couldn't we all use a miracle?  I'm sure Beth and Dave could use a miracle right now.


Peaches,

I want you to know that I got what you were saying and thought exactly that...we can all use a miracle...yes, indeed.   I put your quote immediately in my sig line.  It works for you, it works for me and it works for what we all hope for in this case.  If they bottled your strength, I'd be first in line to get some.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 12:56:26 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well, I guess nobody knows if Joran was really at school or not...I think I will just go somewhere and read for a while.  Geesh!  You guys are a tough crowd.


I dont know if Joran was in school or not, but I have doubts that he was.  And no, i'm not trying to be funny.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well, I guess nobody knows if Joran was really at school or not...I think I will just go somewhere and read for a while.  Geesh!  You guys are a tough crowd.


I guess not.  All we had were a couple of posters from Aruba who claimed to be classmates of Joran and also claimed to have thrown paperwads at him as he was sleeping on the floor in classrooms.

Who knows, really?  

Same as with everything about this so-called investigation.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Sue on July 26, 2007, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Sue"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Sue"
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


My opinion is, if I were the lead investigator in this case and was looking for clues as to what happened to Natalee, the very first place I would look is under that concrete.  This is by far one of the most suspicious things the Sloots could have done while being suspects in this case.


Yes but to determine what is new cement and what was prior..
I know for FACT as I have installed a inground pool in my back yard
that once the pool is in ground and the pipes are complete they pack the remainder with sand that they pour a minimum of a 3 foot skirt around the pool as that is what helps hold the pool in the ground they even pour the concrete under the edges of pool 1/2 foot thick or more.. so I would say if there is any evidence it is more then 3 feet away from that Pool


I believe the concrete in question is a sort of walkway or patio near or next to the pool.  It is not some part of the pool or support structure for the pool.  At any rate, If I was lead investigator, the whole damn patio, pool, backyard and driveway would be torn out.  I would leave no stone unturned on that property.


well my guess would be that anything there would not be close to the pool.. I woul dlike to know where they got the money for that cement..  when we had ours install 3 foot skirt came with price of pool as you have to have it we paid extra for a additional 3 foot on one side full length of pool and it was over 500 bucks for the extra.. so I cant even fathom how much it would cost to cement a WHOLE back yard


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 01:01:22 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well, I guess nobody knows if Joran was really at school or not...I think I will just go somewhere and read for a while.  Geesh!  You guys are a tough crowd.


I dont know if Joran was in school or not, but I have doubts that he was.  And no, i'm not trying to be funny.


Could be.  That's why I don't discuss the timeline Gran Toad and I did before.  But logic would dictate that Joran was in fact at school on Monday at least for some portion of the day.  He couldn't have told the hit head on rock story and dropped off at HI story at the same time unless he was claiming to have dropped off a corpse.  Wouldn't make sense at all.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 01:04:30 PM
LOL!! These Monkeys are a tough crowd :D

Remember Joran was up extremely late on Monday night as well...What time did he get to bed on that night? The next day could also be the day he was sleeping at school.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 01:04:45 PM
I would have dug around the out buildings.  Isn't there a dog house like structure close to the sporter's room?  

First choice would be Ground Penetrating Radar.  Run that bad boy all over the house, the yard, the neighborhood, all of it.  Then jackhammer accordingly.

I wonder if the Sloots have a storage unit?  Wouldn't that be something?  I'd like to sift thru their crap for an afternoon... never know what one might discover.

Hopefully, more than just a box of Anita's old big panties.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 26, 2007, 01:04:57 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well, I guess nobody knows if Joran was really at school or not...I think I will just go somewhere and read for a while.  Geesh!  You guys are a tough crowd.


I can only reiterate that Beth & Dave said that he was NOT at school on Monday. I am not certain how they know that, other than their own questioning of the kids and staff at the school.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 01:06:10 PM
Quote from: "Peaches"
I was afraid the other day when I said I expected a miracle that people would think I was really sick or had given up.  Simply not the case.  I'm still in the fight.  Still hoping and praying for miracles for all who need them.  And couldn't we all use a miracle?  I'm sure Beth and Dave could use a miracle right now.

Peaches ~ you are such a source of inspiration, and what admiration I have for you.  I knew you hadn't given up.....that's not your style.  Sending you prayers, love, and many hugs.  :smt058


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well, I guess nobody knows if Joran was really at school or not...I think I will just go somewhere and read for a while.  Geesh!  You guys are a tough crowd.


I dont know if Joran was in school or not, but I have doubts that he was.  And no, i'm not trying to be funny.


Could be.  That's why I don't discuss the timeline Gran Toad and I did before.  But logic would dictate that Joran was in fact at school on Monday at least for some portion of the day.  He couldn't have told the hit head on rock story and dropped off at HI story at the same time unless he was claiming to have dropped off a corpse.  Wouldn't make sense at all.

.


If he was at school, i think he would have gotten there late.  The reason I dont think he was there (at least not in the morning) is because of the way Paulus sort of danced around the question of Joran going to school.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 01:08:27 PM
Quote from: "*******"
LOL!! These Monkeys are a tough crowd :D

Remember Joran was up extremely late on Monday night as well...What time did he get to bed on that night? The next day could also be the day he was sleeping at school.


And saying she hit her head on a rock after he had told the HI story the night before?  I don't think that is likely but JMO, sure don't mean to fight or anything.

So it was after he told HT the HI story he went to school and said Natalee hit her head on a rock?  

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZSunny on July 26, 2007, 01:11:47 PM
Quote from: "Sue"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Sue"
so back to the cement are some still considering maybe Natalee
is under cement or something that belongs to her..


My opinion is, if I were the lead investigator in this case and was looking for clues as to what happened to Natalee, the very first place I would look is under that concrete.  This is by far one of the most suspicious things the Sloots could have done while being suspects in this case.


Yes but to determine what is new cement and what was prior..
I know for FACT as I have installed a inground pool in my back yard
that once the pool is in ground and the pipes are complete they pack the remainder with sand that they pour a minimum of a 3 foot skirt around the pool as that is what helps hold the pool in the ground they even pour the concrete under the edges of pool 1/2 foot thick or more.. so I would say if there is any evidence it is more then 3 feet away from that Pool


Hi Sue,  I think they are suggesting it is under the cool decking, or the expanded cool decking.  I think it reasonably could be under the immediate cool decking as well.  (we have built 3 pools) JMO


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 01:14:19 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/th1757blueflowerwonderful-1.gif)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "blah"
I believe that Glen Thode is just some dude maybe a lawyer in Aruba who wrote a letter to the judge in the slander case stating that Aruba has some ridiculous law (article 45 or some nonsense) that Deepak is trying to use to his advantage.  Basically the law says Deepak doesnt have to share any information he doesnt want to.

I don't care what the laws are in Aruba when you are here in the U.S. using our judicial system for your own benefit.  He can shove that Aruba law where the sun don't shine.


Hey dont shoot the messenger!!!

I'm just answering the question about this Thode BS

I wasn't shooting the messenger Blah.  I was just irritated at these people and their so called laws.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "*******"
LOL!! These Monkeys are a tough crowd :D

Remember Joran was up extremely late on Monday night as well...What time did he get to bed on that night? The next day could also be the day he was sleeping at school.


And saying she hit her head on a rock after he had told the HI story the night before?  I don't think that is likely but JMO, sure don't mean to fight or anything.

So it was after he told HT the HI story he went to school and said Natalee hit her head on a rock?  

.


You have a point but why would he tell that story in the first place? Also I never said he told that story the day after he told the family he dropped her off at the HI. My point was that he was up all night again!! How much sleep did he get that night 2 hours?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 01:26:59 PM
I don't think Joran went to school on Moday...and I agree with whomever said it was Tues he was sleeping in class.

I also think he was at Lorenzo's house until very early Monday Morn....and, Why did Papa sloot claim he dropped off Joran near Lorenzo house to catch the school bus Monday morn?   Cuz Papa sloot was there too...came up with this story/lie in the event someone saw his car/him in that area. JMOHO.

Wind  8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: "Destiny"
I don't think Joran went to school on Moday...and I agree with whomever said it was Tues he was sleeping in class.

I also think he was at Lorenzo's house until very early Monday Morn....and, Why did Papa sloot claim he dropped off Joran near Lorenzo house to catch the school bus Monday morn?   Cuz Papa sloot was there too...came up with this story/lie in the event someone saw his car/him in that area. JMOHO.

Wind  8)


OOPS...Destiny


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:34:05 PM
From:
http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/2005_05_24_thru_may31.html

Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT brags at school to his friends about having sex with NATALEE. From the DUTCH news source “AD.nl”:

<QUOTE>

The next day at school, Joran arrogantly bragged to several of his school buddies who had been at the “Excelsior Casino” (and some who were at “Carlos 'N Charlie's”) and had seen Natalee with him, words to this effect, “Hey, I banged that girl last night.” He was telling the story several times [as he would see guys who had seen him the night before.… guys ask things like... “Did you score with that chick?” MY INSERTION] and he would give them his report.

But, then the schoolmaster called him in and told him to not be talking that way, because it is ‘on the news that she never made it back to the hotel.’ So, Joran (shocked by that news) quit telling of his conquest immediately.

<END QUOTE>

Also, the morning after NH disappeared [May 30, 2005], Joran came with a big bruise on his face and was sleeping in class and could only be woken up when he was pelted with (note?)books.

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she had spoken to the mother of a school student male witness about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT showing up at school the morning of 5-30 with a very noticeable bruise on his facial cheek.

On 7-15 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY stated that an Aruban woman had called her said she just wanted to make sure that BETH knew that Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT had a bruise on his face the morning of 5-30 at school. On 7-15 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that a colleague reporter had gone to Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT’s school on 6-9 to ask about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT. When TITO LACLE’s colleague asked about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT to a person at the school he was told, “Oh, you mean that boy with the bruise.”


Not sure if any of this is considered "reliable" or "verified" but it what I found in a quick search.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "*******"
LOL!! These Monkeys are a tough crowd :D

Remember Joran was up extremely late on Monday night as well...What time did he get to bed on that night? The next day could also be the day he was sleeping at school.


And saying she hit her head on a rock after he had told the HI story the night before?  I don't think that is likely but JMO, sure don't mean to fight or anything.

So it was after he told HT the HI story he went to school and said Natalee hit her head on a rock?  

.


You have a point but why would he tell that story in the first place? Also I never said he told that story the day after he told the family he dropped her off at the HI. My point was that he was up all night again!! How much sleep did he get that night 2 hours?


*******, you forget that he's young, and he has drugs.  He's very capable of going on 2 hours sleep ocasionally and then catching up later.  A little blow and he's good to go. (Crude, I know.)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: "Destiny"
I don't think Joran went to school on Moday...and I agree with whomever said it was Tues he was sleeping in class.

I also think he was at Lorenzo's house until very early Monday Morn....and, Why did Papa sloot claim he dropped off Joran near Lorenzo house to catch the school bus Monday morn?   Cuz Papa sloot was there too...came up with this story/lie in the event someone saw his car/him in that area. JMOHO.

Wind  8)

I agree.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 01:41:47 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
From:
http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/2005_05_24_thru_may31.html

Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT brags at school to his friends about having sex with NATALEE. From the DUTCH news source “AD.nl”:

<QUOTE>

The next day at school, Joran arrogantly bragged to several of his school buddies who had been at the “Excelsior Casino” (and some who were at “Carlos 'N Charlie's”) and had seen Natalee with him, words to this effect, “Hey, I banged that girl last night.” He was telling the story several times [as he would see guys who had seen him the night before.… guys ask things like... “Did you score with that chick?” MY INSERTION] and he would give them his report.

But, then the schoolmaster called him in and told him to not be talking that way, because it is ‘on the news that she never made it back to the hotel.’ So, Joran (shocked by that news) quit telling of his conquest immediately.

<END QUOTE>

Also, the morning after NH disappeared [May 30, 2005], Joran came with a big bruise on his face and was sleeping in class and could only be woken up when he was pelted with (note?)books.

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she had spoken to the mother of a school student male witness about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT showing up at school the morning of 5-30 with a very noticeable bruise on his facial cheek.

On 7-15 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY stated that an Aruban woman had called her said she just wanted to make sure that BETH knew that Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT had a bruise on his face the morning of 5-30 at school. On 7-15 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that a colleague reporter had gone to Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT’s school on 6-9 to ask about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT. When TITO LACLE’s colleague asked about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT to a person at the school he was told, “Oh, you mean that boy with the bruise.”


Not sure if any of this is considered "reliable" or "verified" but it what I found in a quick search.


Thank You AZlady!

Yes...this does give me a lot to work with....with all the conflicting stories...I'll let my head spin awhile over what you posted  :D

Destiny


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 01:47:35 PM
Quote from: AZLady
Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "*******"
LOL!! These Monkeys are a tough crowd :D

.


You have a point but why would he tell that story in the first place? Also I never said he told that story the day after he told the family he dropped her off at the HI. My point was that he was up all night again!! How much sleep did he get that night 2 hours?


*******, you forget that he's young, and he has drugs.  He's very capable of going on 2 hours sleep ocasionally and then catching up later.  A little blow and he's good to go. (Crude, I know.)


LOL!! Yeh when I was his age I could pull all nighters no problem :wink: I think the kid dabbled in X and MJ not so he was using coke. Even though its all over that island!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Peaches on July 26, 2007, 01:47:53 PM
Time for me to run and get my 10 day labs done.....10 days after chemo to see if my blood counts are recovering.  I feel pretty good so this is just routine.

Surely they have attendance records at ISA.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 02:07:45 PM
Quote from: "*******"
LOL!! These Monkeys are a tough crowd :D

Remember Joran was up extremely late on Monday night as well...What time did he get to bed on that night? The next day could also be the day he was sleeping at school.


I would find it believable he was sleeping any chance he got both days but you say THE day, *******.  That would seem to imply that there was only one and it was Tuesday.

Maybe you would accept that information about hitting her head better from Hammer than you do from me.  Try him as your source.  

I know what I know and it's just not logical to say Joran was at school on Tuesday after dealing with the Alabama delegation all night still bragging and saying she hit her head because by Tuesday they had the HI story.  As Hammer says, only that Monday does Joran say Natalee was dead and that was before the big meeting around the pool and the arrival of HT and the HI story.

It couldn't have happened on Tuesday, too late.  But this is why I don't like to talk about this subject and like all the others, will no longer do so.  Think whatever you like but it is just not logical he was telling she hit her head on the rock AFTER they had the HI story in place.  The only day he could have been telling that would have been Monday.

I guess some can't follow that line of thought which is fine.  What does it matter in the big picture of what happened to Natalee anyway.

.



.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 02:09:15 PM
Good afternoon,

I wonder things like

We see a still of the car shortly after it left C&C's.

If they drove around C&C's 2 times, why do we not see a still for the 2nd time? Let me guess, they made a turn.

How do we know that where the gardener saw them at 2:30 is not the crime scene? IMO, what happened to Natalee happened quickly, how did the 3 know that someone wasn't out looking for Natalee when she didn't return to the HI when everyone else did?

pvds doesn't know j is out Sunday night, but he knows j is out Monday night, both school nights.

No one near the vds home sees or hears anything on Sunday night, but Monday night a neighbor tells d to turn the radio down. Could it be no one ask them? Even he admits he was there.  He picked j up. Loud pipes are always loud.

The 3 telling the HI in story tells me that is where Natalee thought she was going. How did d and s know that Natalee was staying at the HI to tell the story to begin with? There has been to my knowledge no one mention seeing d or s from all the "earlier in the week" stuff. Could be wrong I know. I have been wrong before.

I can't get past point A C&C's because of all the lies. Designed to be that way imo, lie, confuse and lie some more.

Oh well, these are just some of things that go round and round in my head. I always start with C&C's and can't get any further.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 02:14:47 PM
Quote from: "*******"
Quote from: "AZLady"

*******, you forget that he's young, and he has drugs.  He's very capable of going on 2 hours sleep ocasionally and then catching up later.  A little blow and he's good to go. (Crude, I know.)


LOL!! Yeh when I was his age I could pull all nighters no problem :wink: I think the kid dabbled in X and MJ not so he was using coke. Even though its all over that island!!


I think he was sampling it all and that includes coke.  The lifestyle he was living it was unavoidable.

Just look at the coke dealers swarming around the tourists at CnC's in the video Geraldo showed.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 02:17:31 PM
LOL!! Anna!! Are you writing that post to me?? I never gave my opinion on the subject..Once again all I stated was that he was up all night again on monday..You seem to like to argue with me..What's up?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 02:33:10 PM
Why did j say to avds "if you were here" and yet his father was and it did?

Is avds a light sleeper or does pvds allow j to do whatever he wants, or are j & p partners in crime?

For what it is worth,

I believe j was at school on Monday.

Didn't Beth or Jug speak about it on MSN? Heck, I don't know what I know anymore.

Where is Tyler?

Anna hang in there, we need you. You have helped me.

I can't wait for Beth's book to come out.

Well, gotta run,

have a great day,

OS Out


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 26, 2007, 02:44:42 PM
I do not think Natalee is on the VDS property (now), but this show I watched last night sure showed a photo of a rock monument that sure does resemble Anita's style of 'art' . I understsand that at the VDS it is a fountain, but just the sight of this photo in the below link gave me chills.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16553112/

A cairn of some sort—a monument.
In there, under those stones, was a terrible puzzle...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 02:54:13 PM
Quote from: "*******"
LOL!! Anna!! Are you writing that post to me?? I never gave my opinion on the subject..Once again all I stated was that he was up all night again on monday..You seem to like to argue with me..What's up?


No, you posted that the next day could be THE day, implying I have my days mixed up or could be doing so.

I am not.  We verified it.  "Some of us were paying attention" you know.  Learn to state your opinion without discrediting that of another.  It's called manners.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 02:59:57 PM
Once again, the hall monitor has opened up a can of worms.  Nevertheless, I think it important to know if Joran was indeed at school the next day.  Would the next day actually be the same day as Natalee's demise?  There would be no way for the media to have known anything about her missing until the NEXT day after that.  After Beth and Co. arrived.  

I think Paulus's confusion over the school thing is more in line with him working the story out in his head.  He wasn't sure about anything at that point other than she was dead.  He didn't know for certain because he actually knew where Joran had been that early morning around 6 AM, he just did not remember his lies before that he told to ALE, so he acted confused just in case Joran screwed up his stories again.

Okay, I am dropping the subject, seems we never get anywhere but circles and more circles.  I think I am getting dizzy over it all.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:03:27 PM
So, who's Shango?  :wink:  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:04:10 PM
Okay, then...is Shango a male or female?   :wink:  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Observer on July 26, 2007, 03:04:43 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "*******"
LOL!! Anna!! Are you writing that post to me?? I never gave my opinion on the subject..Once again all I stated was that he was up all night again on monday..You seem to like to argue with me..What's up?


No, you posted that the next day could be THE day, implying I have my days mixed up or could be doing so.

I am not.  We verified it.  "Some of us were paying attention" you know.  Learn to state your opinion without discrediting that of another.  It's called manners.

.


I wasnt implying anything!! I said the next day could also be the day that he slept at the school..So what!! What diffrence does it make?? I wasnt trying to discredit anyone and wasnt even involved in your previous arguments nor did I care to be..Wasn't even paying attention to your argument..Thats two arguments you started..Go crawl back underneath your rock!!  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:04:47 PM
Alrighty then, let's talk Aru Bay videos. :roll:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:05:04 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
So, who's Shango?  :wink:  :wink:


 fwiw I read some interesting specualtions in the old threads.. let me grab it,..may take me a few...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:05:41 PM
Maybe we can talk about the rocks?? :roll:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 03:06:37 PM
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
I do not think Natalee is on the VDS property (now), but this show I watched last night sure showed a photo of a rock monument that sure does resemble Anita's style of 'art' . I understand that at the VDS it is a fountain, but just the sight of this photo in the below link gave me chills.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16553112/

A cairn of some sort—a monument.
In there, under those stones, was a terrible puzzle...



In addition to that tacky fountain by the pool is that other stack of rocks back closer to Joran's shed, too.  Have always wondered just what that was supposed to be.  Can't be for aesthetic effect as it is fugly.

You can see it clearly in the overhead view of the property.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:06:50 PM
Well heck!  Let's try Simian's identity then.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:07:57 PM
Okay, I give up!  Everyone fight amongst themselves.  :roll:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:08:36 PM
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:11:24 PM
Good afternoon monkeys :)  :)   What is this you are posting Angie?  I don't recall seeing that before.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 03:13:18 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well heck!  Let's try Simian's identity then.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:


Lala's

I would love to discuss the Shango and Simian posts.  It seems that the Tango is mostly done late night/early morning so I usually miss it.

I have a lot of strong opinions about S/S, but find it difficult to discuss in the LCD threads.

FWIW- IMO Simian was in Aruba and was close to ALE.  I don't think Simian was ALE, but was very close to someone who was.  Shango - IF posting from Florida could be anybody. I realize the IP address indicated Florida, but if the person was in Aruba and logged on to a sever in Florida and used that server's email, the IP address would not indicate the exact location of the poster.  You would have to have access to that mail server to determine where the poster was located.  

With that said I think Shango is definitely a guy.  Simian, I'm not sure.  Could be either.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:13:22 PM
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon monkeys :)  :)   What is this you are posting Angie?  I don't recall seeing that before.


Muffy it was in the old archive threads.. talk of who those posters thought Shango was at the time. Marianne Croes. I just read it earlier today.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1823&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 03:14:32 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


Are these SM posts?

Hi Angie - how is your hand/arm?  How is your husband?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:15:34 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


Thanks Angie.  You actually have no idea how ironic you finding that really is.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


Are these SM posts?

Hi Angie - how is your hand/arm?  How is your husband?


 Yep Klaas,, I posted the thread above..
My arm is killing me , no better at all. Hubby is napping and very miserable. he fell last night.  :shock:  His foot really is a mess. <gag>
Not a great team we make here.. both gimps.  lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:17:08 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well heck!  Let's try Simian's identity then.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:


Lala's

I would love to discuss the Shango and Simian posts.  It seems that the Tango is mostly done late night/early morning so I usually miss it.

I have a lot of strong opinions about S/S, but find it difficult to discuss in the LCD threads.

FWIW- IMO Simian was in Aruba and was close to ALE.  I don't think Simian was ALE, but was very close to someone who was.  Shango - IF posting from Florida could be anybody. I realize the IP address indicated Florida, but if the person was in Aruba and logged on to a sever in Florida and used that server's email, the IP address would not indicate the exact location of the poster.  You would have to have access to that mail server to determine where the poster was located.  

With that said I think Shango is definitely a guy.  Simian, I'm not sure.  Could be either.


So tell me, who do think is Shango?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


Thanks Angie.  You actually have no idea how ironic you finding that really is.


 Since hubby has been laying around most of the day I been trying to read more in the old threads. Interesting huh?  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


FWIW - I do not think this person was Shango.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:18:43 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Good afternoon monkeys :)  :)   What is this you are posting Angie?  I don't recall seeing that before.


Muffy it was in the old archive threads.. talk of who those posters thought Shango was at the time. Marianne Croes. I just read it earlier today.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1823&postdays=0&postorder
=asc&start=20


Oh, okay Angie.  Thank you for helping me get up to speed.  I forgot about Marianne Croes.  Aren't the old archive threads great!  Hope you and DH are feeling better.  Don't over do now, okay?

I don't have enough background/knowledge to tango, but I find discussion about Shango and Simian very interesting.  If I don't post while you monkeys are tangoing, it isn't that I don't want to see it.  It's that I am reading and "listening" to theories and such.  And  I'm not ignoring you. :)  :)   I'm open to ideas and enjoy a lively discussion.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 03:19:27 PM
ANGIE - sorry to hear you are both still in pain.  I'll keep you both in my prayers.

Need to get back to work now.  Will be working and lurking.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:20:14 PM
I know everyone keeps asking me who I think it is, but I have held off on that one, because I like to see how others come to their conclusions.  Since Gabe Leo claims it is not him, tell me, someone who it is?  I have long had my mind made up, but I refuse to say anymore than that.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 03:20:14 PM
I am not under any rock, *******.  I'm right here whether you like it or not.  And you said not also but THE day.  Yes, I am sure you would like for me to go away but you lack to power to make it happen.  

Strange you call holding a different opinion an argument.  I don't see it that way.  You are welcome to do so if you prefer that line of thinking, however.  I only posted about this at all because I was asked.  Otherwise, I seldom express my POV about much of anything any more since some can't seem to handle it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


FWIW - I do not think this person was Shango.


 me either


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 03:22:53 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Well heck!  Let's try Simian's identity then.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:


Lala's

I would love to discuss the Shango and Simian posts.  It seems that the Tango is mostly done late night/early morning so I usually miss it.

I have a lot of strong opinions about S/S, but find it difficult to discuss in the LCD threads.

FWIW- IMO Simian was in Aruba and was close to ALE.  I don't think Simian was ALE, but was very close to someone who was.  Shango - IF posting from Florida could be anybody. I realize the IP address indicated Florida, but if the person was in Aruba and logged on to a sever in Florida and used that server's email, the IP address would not indicate the exact location of the poster.  You would have to have access to that mail server to determine where the poster was located.  

With that said I think Shango is definitely a guy.  Simian, I'm not sure.  Could be either.


So tell me, who do think is Shango?


LaLa's,

I could make as many guesses as the next monkey, but truthfully, I don't think it is someone whose name has been mentioned in this case.  I think Shango is someone who knew a lot about what was going on down there either through our FBI or DEA...or he was really in Aruba.   If in Aruba why the cryptic posts?  Maybe because it is an unspoken rule that you don't rat out your fellow islanders and live to tell about it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:22:59 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
ANGIE - sorry to hear you are both still in pain.  I'll keep you both in my prayers.

Need to get back to work now.  Will be working and lurking.


 Thanks Klaas

Muffy I dont tango well either.. but I enjoy reading Lalas and others views!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:26:17 PM
So let's explore it...why can't it be MC?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 03:27:07 PM
Anyone ~ Do we know exactly what was picked up and/or delivered by that furniture/fish/whatever-it-was truck? Or, do we know and I was zoned out when we had the answer.... :oops:

Angie ~ You're in my positive thoughts.  :D

Anna ~ I haven't asked lately, but how's the lack of rain situation?  :?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:27:59 PM
Ok here is an old post bewtween meds and DragonFly and Joran being at school and the testgs I just saw.
 
dragonfly
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: Bartlesville, Oklahoma
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
medleyrelay wrote:
You do not have to take AP exams when you take AP classes!!! Both of my sons - 4.20 students - took several AP classes their senior year and did not take AP exams - especially since Joran was getting a full ride at college - he did not need to be in any hurry to buypass classes - which is the reason you sometimes take the AP tests so you can skip classes in college

i realize that most of you on here have totally burnt this young man at the stake before he has been convicted - but let us be fair as to what we charge him with - taking or not taking AP exams should not be one of these things!


I think what we were all trying to get at here is that he DID take some exams. Finals were the week of the 6th, not the week that Natalee went missing as some have said. It has been said that he "was at school the following day on time and aced his exams". We were all trying to figure out if these people were even talking about the same day as finals were the week after not the week of the incident. Some speculated that maybe it was his AP exams he took the week of the incident which would explain why people continue to say "he was at school that day, everything fine, aced his exams". But, according to all schedules, even AP's were not the week Natalee went missing, finals were the week following, so the question is why is everything using that whole "just fine, aced exams" as some sort of testament to how he could not have killed Natalee the night before?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:29:21 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Anyone ~ Do we know exactly what was picked up and/or delivered by that furniture/fish/whatever-it-was truck? Or, do we know and I was zoned out when we had the answer.... :oops:

Angie ~ You're in my positive thoughts.  :D

Anna ~ I haven't asked lately, but how's the lack of rain situation?  :?

Hi TCU Mom.  I don't think it was ever established what was picked up and/or delivered by the truck.  IIRC there was something said about large sacks of dog food being delivered...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Anyone ~ Do we know exactly what was picked up and/or delivered by that furniture/fish/whatever-it-was truck? Or, do we know and I was zoned out when we had the answer.... :oops:

Angie ~ You're in my positive thoughts.  :D

Anna ~ I haven't asked lately, but how's the lack of rain situation?  :?


 TY MOM.. we sure do need them here.  :)

Mom IIRC.. I might be wrong.. I think it was suppose to be dog food.  :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:29:54 PM
Truth
Why is is difficult to discuss here?  Just pretend you are talking only to me...if the others get in the way I will poke them with my pencils.  C'mon now, I have been berated on many an occasion about Shango and Simian.  I still tango and those that don't like...well, they can scroll on by.  Let's get on with it, I am very curious what you think.  We can post a disclaimer like Old Fart does.  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:31:16 PM
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I am sorry, I don't have a link.  That is why I used the disclaimer "IIRC" :D  :D I had actually thought of including the phrase "I don't have a link", but thought it might sound snippy :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 03:33:13 PM
Angie and Muffy ~ I'm  :lol: 'cause y'all posted at the same time! ha.
Okay, I guess I'll go with dog food and let it go....I have no recollection of that.  :oops:  :oops

Thanks for answering.  :D  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:35:09 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Angie and Muffy ~ I'm  :lol: 'cause y'all posted at the same time! ha.
Okay, I guess I'll go with dog food and let it go....I have no recollection of that.  :oops:  :oops

Thanks for answering.  :D  :D


I saw Angie and I posted at same time.   :)  :) Who REALLY knows what was or wasn't picked up or delivered in the truck.  Even if someone produced a bill of sale tomorrow, I'm not sure it would be the truth.  Not coming from the Sloots or the island of Aruba.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:35:13 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I have no idea Lalas..  LMAO  Just recall hearing it was dogfood?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I am sorry, I don't have a link.  That is why I used the disclaimer "IIRC" :D  :D I had actually thought of including the phrase "I don't have a link", but thought it might sound snippy :D


It was probably Bondia.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 03:37:12 PM
We could use DHL as the "don't have link" when needed.  Heck, maybe we could just call it a monkey disclaimer and confuse the darkside.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I have no idea Lalas..  LMAO  Just recall hearing it was dogfood?


I remember the discussion and the photos. IIRC (no link here) that there was discussion about whether the sloots were moving things out, like stuff that could be evidence.  On that note, I remember reading IIRC (no link here)  it has been said Anita had friends or associates keeping things for her.  Could it have been this?  Were furnishings being moved out and replaced?  I have no idea.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:38:55 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I am sorry, I don't have a link.  That is why I used the disclaimer "IIRC" :D  :D I had actually thought of including the phrase "I don't have a link", but thought it might sound snippy :D


It was probably Bondia.


 :shock:   LOL

 Here is another old post in RE: to Simian and Shango Lalas..

ztriggz



Joined: 15 Jun 2005

 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Microcephalic wrote:
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.



wow wouldn't that be something if it was true.
it seems that ANYTHING is possbile in Aruba these days.

I Salute her if it was...
The orig Shang, Sim and Aem knew far too many local details
to be totally fake. They basically supported the theory of a cover up,
which many happen to agree with. including me.


even the Security guard pinned in the beginning said on Fox to fire the chief.

they have replaced the judge twice right?
and they have never even considered replacing or importing a new chief investigator after HE screwed up in the beginning... weird eh?
where's the big gun Hague investigator to come in and clean up this mess?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 03:39:12 PM
Do you all think that truck just probably isn't a big deal?  I've always thought it was, or should be...but it just seems like no one's ever been very interested in it....I'm talking about everyone, not just the monkeys.  :?  :?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 03:40:07 PM
Anna & ******* - I think it's time to drop it and move on.  From what I can tell the original post by ******* was not directed at anyone.  Somehow it evolved into a battle that needs to stop now.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Do you all think that truck just probably isn't a big deal?  I've always thought it was, or should be...but it just seems like no one's ever been very interested in it....I'm talking about everyone, not just the monkeys.  :?  :?


IMHO (no link-see disclaimer below) the truck has some significance.  What it is, I don't know.

Disclaimer: I'm doing the best I can...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 03:42:06 PM
Muffy ~ you're doing great IMO!  8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 03:42:13 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Anyone ~ Do we know exactly what was picked up and/or delivered by that furniture/fish/whatever-it-was truck? Or, do we know and I was zoned out when we had the answer.... :oops:

Angie ~ You're in my positive thoughts.  :D

Anna ~ I haven't asked lately, but how's the lack of rain situation?  :?


Thank you for asking, TCUMom, we have had a couple of light rains.  Nothing to get excited about but it did help the grass.  A little bit.

At one time it was discussed that the furniture place also sold DOG FOOD, apparently some expensive kind from TNL and was speculated that it was making a delivery of dog food.

So when Joran is not killing the dogs with his paint gun, we were supposed to believe they were fed some exclusive brand of food available and shipped all the way from Holland.  I can't recall where I read that but it was a suggestion at some point in time.  A sort of explanation for the presence of the truck anyway.



.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on July 26, 2007, 03:42:32 PM
Wasn't the "aced his exams" a Julia lie?

Angie- prayers & (((hugs)))  Get better soon!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:43:19 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Muffy ~ you're doing great IMO!  8)



LOL She is!!   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: "Kimmy53"
Wasn't the "aced his exams" a Julia lie?

Angie- prayers & (((hugs)))  Get better soon!


 HI Kimmy and Ty sweety.
 I am trying to look for Renho~Fluffa BS in the old threads.. I know I read something today and cant find it again.  But I will eventually  :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: IndyDan on July 26, 2007, 03:44:57 PM
Hi Angie,
Good to see you again, hope you get to feeling better soon.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Muffy ~ you're doing great IMO!  8)


tcumom thank you.  I really wish I were able to whip out maps in a single bound and do instant recall and quote and link, but alas, it isn't to be.  I read and learn and contribute what I can.  I care and have no agenda otherwise. :)  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:48:00 PM
Quote from: "IndyDan"
Hi Angie,
Good to see you again, hope you get to feeling better soon.


 :smooch   Thanks sweety. Im hurting ..trying my best!  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BTgirl on July 26, 2007, 03:52:14 PM
I'm heading out the door to my next training, but I wanted to jump in and say smoochies to Angie and hubby and that I hope you're both feeling better soon.

 :smt058

See ya later, gators.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 03:52:17 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Truth
Why is is difficult to discuss here?  Just pretend you are talking only to me...if the others get in the way I will poke them with my pencils.  C'mon now, I have been berated on many an occasion about Shango and Simian.  I still tango and those that don't like...well, they can scroll on by.  Let's get on with it, I am very curious what you think.  We can post a disclaimer like Old Fart does.  :lol:


Thanks, LaLa's
I will be back later this evening.  I'm working and lurking and right this minute they are wantng me to work.  

I would like to post my S/S opinions and will do say later on this evening.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 03:53:39 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I have no idea Lalas..  LMAO  Just recall hearing it was dogfood?


I thought is was avds, but I don't know how that info got to us, ex msm, poster.

Hi beautiful Monkeys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ang, hope you and your husband are feeling better soon.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Kimmy53"
Wasn't the "aced his exams" a Julia lie?

Angie- prayers & (((hugs)))  Get better soon!


 HI Kimmy and Ty sweety.
 I am trying to look for Renho~Fluffa BS in the old threads.. I know I read something today and cant find it again.  But I will eventually  :twisted:


 Gonna correct myself.. :oops:  Wasnt a post ARenho made but a few posts by others bitching about her and things she was doing to protect VDS.  Gonna look.. and gotta go.. hubby woke up.. and his gauze is soaked.  :shock:  I gotta go run to the drug store to buy more.. hes almost out.   be back in a few.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:54:57 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Truth
Why is is difficult to discuss here?  Just pretend you are talking only to me...if the others get in the way I will poke them with my pencils.  C'mon now, I have been berated on many an occasion about Shango and Simian.  I still tango and those that don't like...well, they can scroll on by.  Let's get on with it, I am very curious what you think.  We can post a disclaimer like Old Fart does.  :lol:


Thanks, LaLa's
I will be back later this evening.  I'm working and lurking and right this minute they are wantng me to work.  

I would like to post my S/S opinions and will do say later on this evening.


Bye Truth.  I would like to "see" your s/s opinions.  Hope you are back later this evening.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Ok here is an old post bewtween meds and DragonFly and Joran being at school and the testgs I just saw.
 
dragonfly
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: Bartlesville, Oklahoma
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
medleyrelay wrote:
You do not have to take AP exams when you take AP classes!!! Both of my sons - 4.20 students - took several AP classes their senior year and did not take AP exams - especially since Joran was getting a full ride at college - he did not need to be in any hurry to buypass classes - which is the reason you sometimes take the AP tests so you can skip classes in college

i realize that most of you on here have totally burnt this young man at the stake before he has been convicted - but let us be fair as to what we charge him with - taking or not taking AP exams should not be one of these things!


I think what we were all trying to get at here is that he DID take some exams. Finals were the week of the 6th, not the week that Natalee went missing as some have said. It has been said that he "was at school the following day on time and aced his exams". We were all trying to figure out if these people were even talking about the same day as finals were the week after not the week of the incident. Some speculated that maybe it was his AP exams he took the week of the incident which would explain why people continue to say "he was at school that day, everything fine, aced his exams". But, according to all schedules, even AP's were not the week Natalee went missing, finals were the week following, so the question is why is everything using that whole "just fine, aced exams" as some sort of testament to how he could not have killed Natalee the night before?

Well, doesn't that just blow her friend renwhore's story out the window.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 03:58:16 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I have no idea Lalas..  LMAO  Just recall hearing it was dogfood?


I thought is was avds, but I don't know how that info got to us, ex msm, poster.

Hi beautiful Monkeys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ang, hope you and your husband are feeling better soon.


Hi NM.  It is interesting to step back and look at where rumors, information, disinformation and such really came from.  How much do we REALLY know for sure?  Or think we know?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 26, 2007, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: "Peaches"
Lest you all worry that I am truly a terminal case, let me tell you why I expect a miracle.  A couple Sunday mornings ago, I was channel surfing and landed on Joel O’Steen.  I only caught the last couple minutes of his show but my ears perked up when he said “don’t believe the ‘never’.”  He told a story about earlier in his career when he was trying to raise funds for a building.  He heard a lot of “never” but chose not to believe the “never” and went forward, living with gratitude and hope.  

We should live with an attitude of gratitude, hope and expectancy.  It’s better to live with hope and expectancy than with despair and discouragement.  Therefore, we should stay hopeful, make preparations and thank God in expectation.  Keep the vision in front of you and don’t settle.  Some people are content to wait for God to answer their prayers rather than thanking God that the answer is on the way.  One needs to go from waiting (passive) to expecting (active).  

If I believe that God is always with me, I have to believe He knows everything about me and my cancer.  He is the only one who knows the number of my days.  He knows the prayers on the hearts on my family, friends, co-workers and my beloved SM family.  I have to trust that His answer is coming… in His time, not mine.  I have to wait expectantly.  

“For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” – Jeremiah 29:11.

Seems like a simple concept.  Live expectantly.  Expect a miracle.  Thank God the answer is on the way.        

(I put this in the RAH RAH thread in the Lounge as well.)

When I first said I expect a miracle, it slipped by me that some might worry I was lining up for a dirtnap....soon.  NOT!  I may not always feel terrific but I don't look "sick".  If I didn't tell ya I have cancer, you'd never know.  I've lost about 40 lbs. over the last year and a half that I didn't need anyway and much of that was due to surgery and chemo.  I don't recommend chemo as a dieting strategy.  (It's easier to just eat less and move more.)  

So what if I have to have some chemo?  One round down and five to go.  Already went 18 rounds.  What's another six?  What's the alternative?    

I'm still in the fight.  

Expecting my miracle.  

Back to working and lurking.  Smoochies to all.

I am way behind in this thread, but wanted to say I am going to remember this concept forever. Serendepity. Thanks for sharing this Peaches


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:09:35 PM
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I have no idea Lalas..  LMAO  Just recall hearing it was dogfood?


I thought is was avds, but I don't know how that info got to us, ex msm, poster.

Hi beautiful Monkeys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ang, hope you and your husband are feeling better soon.


Hi NM.  It is interesting to step back and look at where rumors, information, disinformation and such really came from.  How much do we REALLY know for sure?  Or think we know?

Hi Muffy, I hear ya.
What makes it really hard is that very early, some posters from aruba were really helping out.
Then people started picking sides and/or turned it into something about them and forgot about Natalee.

LALA'S please see the bolded below
It still pisses me off and I still do not understand why some posters posted in those quatrains(sp?) i.e. shango and later simian. I mean why?
But I am still trying to understand them and I am still using their "info" when I brainstorm on what happened and still apply their "info" when we get info such as the pv's.
I am not good at the figure out things w/ info I don't understand. Just tell me! Any language, just the facts.
urgh! Calgon take me away!!!!!!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on July 26, 2007, 04:12:44 PM
I also thought that Joran's story at school was that Natalee drowned??? Or am I totally confused?

Seems like his story was she hit her head and drowned.

I remember it being said the furniture truck was delivering dogfood too.  IIRC, the delivery weirdly coincided with the bloody mattress being found - or within a day or 2


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 04:16:53 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?


Simian posted first. Shango began posting a few days later, and I believe he (or she) took a lot of cues from Simian. The first person to use the term "Cowboys" and "Babylonians" was actually AllyinMiami. Simian was the first to use "Arawaks," and Shango was the first to use "Shivas." In other instances, though, I think Simian makes a certain point and Shango embellishes it.

I tend to believe Simian was an insider trying to dispense information. Not so sure about Shango. I want to believe him, but I think Simian is the real source for info.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:17:00 PM
Quote from: "Kimmy53"
I also thought that Joran's story at school was that Natalee drowned??? Or am I totally confused?

Seems like his story was she hit her head and drowned.

I remember it being said the furniture truck was delivering dogfood too.  IIRC, the delivery weirdly coincided with the bloody mattress being found - or within a day or 2


I was not aware of the timing. Mattresses are definitely something someone would have delivered. Perhaps the search of the main house was denied not only because of other evidence that could be found, but a missing mattress is pretty obvious and you'd think it would send up a red flag.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:18:41 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?


Simian posted first. Shango began posting a few days later, and I believe he (or she) took a lot of cues from Simian. The first person to use the term "Cowboys" and "Babylonians" was actually AllyinMiami. Simian was the first to use "Arawaks," and Shango was the first to use "Shivas." In other instances, though, I think Simian makes a certain point and Shango embellishes it.

I tend to believe Simian was an insider trying to dispense information. Not so sure about Shango. I want to believe him, but I think Simian is the real source for info.


Thanks! I have to agree with you regarding Simian being an insider.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 04:21:01 PM
Quote from: "shadow"


Thanks! I have to agree with you regarding Simian being an insider.


You're welcome--it's all fresh in my mind because I went back and read a lot of it yesterday. If you read it in the context that Simian is an insider, I think it becomes apparent that Shango is mimicking.

This is just my opinion--I'm not one of the more experienced students of Shango/Simian, but I do try!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 04:21:02 PM
Just blipping through, work is so busy this week but I didn't know if this was posted already but I guess I signed up for alerts and didn't realize it, for this Bama station. Anyway it appears a possible kidnapping was thwarted by someone following behind in their vehicle?

An apparent kidnapping in Hoover this afternoon has been thwarted by police. Early reports indicate that a witness followed the alleged kidnappers and called 911. ABC 33/40 has a crew on the scene and we will bring you more information as it becomes available.
more details as they become available


http://www.abc3340.com/

I couldn't help but think that white car on the video the night Natalee was kidnapped might have done the right thing and helped to save her, or someone in Aruba could come forward to solve this case, again the 'right thing' to do.

Whoever stopped this kidnapping deserves an award and I find it interesting it happened in AL !!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.


Hi NM, thanks! It is good to be back!  :) I agree that the language did change somewhat from the earliest posts. Nice observation.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 04:23:45 PM
Quote from: "Kimmy53"
I also thought that Joran's story at school was that Natalee drowned??? Or am I totally confused?

Seems like his story was she hit her head and drowned.

I remember it being said the furniture truck was delivering dogfood too.  IIRC, the delivery weirdly coincided with the bloody mattress being found - or within a day or 2

Hi Kimmy,
I think posters, possibly msm said the head master said that jurin said that Nat hit her head while swimming and drowned.  

Also I think posters, possibly msm said kids in school said jurin was bragging about having sex with Nat what ever day he was at school.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 04:24:41 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.


FWIW - Shango began posting around the time the heat was being turned up on Paulus.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 26, 2007, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I keep wondering what favors were called in to protect the son of the judge. I would like to know things that happened before Paulus ever got to Aruba, his history, the cases he had influence over. I personally think that would open a huge can of worms and explain why all this for a few punks.

Hi Monkeys
I agree Shell,this is no coverup just for the Kalpoe's....it's for Joran and it's for Paulus.If only the Kalpoe's were involved,this would have been solved within the first few days of Natalee disappearing.
No,it's because of Joran,his father is protecting him and we all know he will do anything to protect his son even if it means bringing down the whole once happy island of aruba.Paulus is protected by his knowledge.I also would love to see all of the cases he has worked on in the past.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:29:34 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Just blipping through, work is so busy this week but I didn't know if this was posted already but I guess I signed up for alerts and didn't realize it, for this Bama station. Anyway it appears a possible kidnapping was thwarted by someone following behind in their vehicle?

An apparent kidnapping in Hoover this afternoon has been thwarted by police. Early reports indicate that a witness followed the alleged kidnappers and called 911. ABC 33/40 has a crew on the scene and we will bring you more information as it becomes available.
more details as they become available


http://www.abc3340.com/

I couldn't help but think that white car on the video the night Natalee was kidnapped might have done the right thing and helped to save her, or someone in Aruba could come forward to solve this case, again the 'right thing' to do.

Whoever stopped this kidnapping deserves an award and I find it interesting it happened in AL !!


WoW! Don't mess with Alabama! :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.


FWIW - Shango began posting around the time the heat was being turned up on Paulus.


Very interesting. Thanks truthseeker!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: the big hammer on July 26, 2007, 04:32:20 PM
JVDS Is a Serial Rapist

I wanted to put this post from Granny Toad, posted today 7/26/07, along side an older post of mine.  

Not for comparison, but instead for their additive and cumulative effect.  The picture painted by the information in both posts illuminates the type of individual joran van der sloot is:

_____________________________________________

GRANNYTOAD 7/26/07

Posted this morning by GrannyToad at BFN:

About the reported event of Joran having followed and cornered an American girl enroute to the restroom at C&C who'd rebuffed him (from dancing? Why - Joran says he doesn't dance), threatened her with a knife, and told her threateningly that his father is a judge - was that in April or March 2005?

I've forgotten the timeframe other than placing it shortly prior Natalee going to Aruba, and being part of established PATTERNS like dumping (likely drugged, tourist?) girls on the beach when he's done with them. I'd wondered then and still now if there was a PATTERN about finding dumped tourist girls on the beach that Charles Croes recognized being a reason to head toward the lighthouse looking for that car and Joran. I don't think that strategy was a whim on Croes' part.

Although there was no implied threat, there was also the report of a mom with two daughters at C&C of having seen Joran enter through a side door, chat up her daughters, and with a nod to the bartender the 17 year old ordered them each shots of 151. This event was I believe, April 2005, Spring Break.

Earlier 2005, maybe March, a tourist had taken offense at Joran's behavior with his wife at some fast food or donut place. This is the event in which a tourist was thrown up against the plate glass window.

PATTERNS

Joran out of control; violence. Makes it easier to consider the "aluminum baseball bat" report and I would still like to have the general identity of the informant verified.

(*I still have the date of 6Jun2005 in general recall as when the cement pool apron was poured at the vdSloot compound. I recall blog posts at RWV with blacklab (latenight) & tsunder if those cues mean anything to readers)

"Supercop" Jan vdStraaten reportedly offered Joran confinement in a mental institution for a reason. Joran's parents may still be in denial.


HAMMER 4/23/07

The Calendar of Depravity

Yes, Tamikosmom. The main perps were "suspected" of involvement in the episode which served as reason to arrest Freddie and Jamie.

Among the interesting things attached to this very specific episode: if memory serves, we'll find that the assault and filming of the unconscious 16 yr old girl occurred in APRIL, 2005. On average, about a month or so before the abduction of Natalee, which occurred on May 29 & 30, 2005. (As an aside, why would the event with Natalee not be filmed?)

Strung together with the events of Bailey Ann, which occurred during MARCH, 2005 and the depicted topless Loco Stefy whose picture was delivered w/ the date taken as MARCH 10, 2005.

An additional calendar notation is worth pondering: jvds supposedly broke up w/ his very young girl friend, at the urging of the girl's parents. This also occurred during MARCH, 2005.

For fun, we could lay these known events against a timeline, and imo it represents a ratcheting up of deviance, and most likely violence. The pimps were spiraling in an increasingly out of control manner. Why would the 16 yr old be "unconscious" -- the introduction of a drugging agent into the boys' repertoire in evidence? I would bet too there are a number of additional unreported incidents which occurred in late April and early May of 2005, incidents which have not been reported w/ firm dates. For example: the 3 girls who were willing to testify against jvds as part of JQ Kelly's affadavits: when were their "alleged" assaults to have occurred.

These kids were off the rails and were exhibiting increasingly dangerous behaviors -- which were criminal.

_________________________________________________

What is the picture you see of joran van der sloot?

What does he look like to you?

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:33:45 PM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
JVDS Is a Serial Rapist

I wanted to put this post from Granny Toad, posted today 7/26/07, along side an older post of mine.  

Not for comparison, but instead for their additive and cumulative effect.  The picture painted by the information in both posts illuminates the type of individual joran van der sloot is:

_____________________________________________

GRANNYTOAD 7/26/07

Posted this morning by GrannyToad at BFN:

About the reported event of Joran having followed and cornered an American girl enroute to the restroom at C&C who'd rebuffed him (from dancing? Why - Joran says he doesn't dance), threatened her with a knife, and told her threateningly that his father is a judge - was that in April or March 2005?

I've forgotten the timeframe other than placing it shortly prior Natalee going to Aruba, and being part of established PATTERNS like dumping (likely drugged, tourist?) girls on the beach when he's done with them. I'd wondered then and still now if there was a PATTERN about finding dumped tourist girls on the beach that Charles Croes recognized being a reason to head toward the lighthouse looking for that car and Joran. I don't think that strategy was a whim on Croes' part.

Although there was no implied threat, there was also the report of a mom with two daughters at C&C of having seen Joran enter through a side door, chat up her daughters, and with a nod to the bartender the 17 year old ordered them each shots of 151. This event was I believe, April 2005, Spring Break.

Earlier 2005, maybe March, a tourist had taken offense at Joran's behavior with his wife at some fast food or donut place. This is the event in which a tourist was thrown up against the plate glass window.

PATTERNS

Joran out of control; violence. Makes it easier to consider the "aluminum baseball bat" report and I would still like to have the general identity of the informant verified.

(*I still have the date of 6Jun2005 in general recall as when the cement pool apron was poured at the vdSloot compound. I recall blog posts at RWV with blacklab (latenight) & tsunder if those cues mean anything to readers)

"Supercop" Jan vdStraaten reportedly offered Joran confinement in a mental institution for a reason. Joran's parents may still be in denial.


HAMMER 4/23/07

The Calendar of Depravity

Yes, Tamikosmom. The main perps were "suspected" of involvement in the episode which served as reason to arrest Freddie and Jamie.

Among the interesting things attached to this very specific episode: if memory serves, we'll find that the assault and filming of the unconscious 16 yr old girl occurred in APRIL, 2005. On average, about a month or so before the abduction of Natalee, which occurred on May 29 & 30, 2005. (As an aside, why would the event with Natalee not be filmed?)

Strung together with the events of Bailey Ann, which occurred during MARCH, 2005 and the depicted topless Loco Stefy whose picture was delivered w/ the date taken as MARCH 10, 2005.

An additional calendar notation is worth pondering: jvds supposedly broke up w/ his very young girl friend, at the urging of the girl's parents. This also occurred during MARCH, 2005.

For fun, we could lay these known events against a timeline, and imo it represents a ratcheting up of deviance, and most likely violence. The pimps were spiraling in an increasingly out of control manner. Why would the 16 yr old be "unconscious" -- the introduction of a drugging agent into the boys' repertoire in evidence? I would bet too there are a number of additional unreported incidents which occurred in late April and early May of 2005, incidents which have not been reported w/ firm dates. For example: the 3 girls who were willing to testify against jvds as part of JQ Kelly's affadavits: when were their "alleged" assaults to have occurred.

These kids were off the rails and were exhibiting increasingly dangerous behaviors -- which were criminal.

_________________________________________________

What is the picture you see of joran van der sloot?

What does he look like to you?

.


well said hammer. . .


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: msmarple on July 26, 2007, 04:34:50 PM
I confess that I am not much into the S&S thing. But yesterday there was a re-post with a few sentences in French, and I think there were several others that included French. I remember being interested in that at the time - as a possible clue to identity. However, I simply could not take the time to "study" those posts.

French is not one of the "3 or 4" languages many on Aruba are likely speak - Pap, Dutch, Spanish, and English.

Folks there who came from The Netherlands might have some French - it's not uncommon in Europe (where many do speak at least a smattering of several languages).

Just thought I would throw that out as a possible avenue of research and speculation.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 04:35:22 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "Peaches"
I was afraid the other day when I said I expected a miracle that people would think I was really sick or had given up.  Simply not the case.  I'm still in the fight.  Still hoping and praying for miracles for all who need them.  And couldn't we all use a miracle?  I'm sure Beth and Dave could use a miracle right now.

Peaches ~ you are such a source of inspiration, and what admiration I have for you.  I knew you hadn't given up.....that's not your style.  Sending you prayers, love, and many hugs.  :smt058


Good Afternoon to all...Peaches,  read your post this morning and I have to tell you it brought me to tears...you are an inspiration to all of us...and I only hope I would have the courage and faith that you possess. I too am praying for your miracle.......and I do know for a fact they happen!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 04:36:15 PM
You guys have me stressed...I can't talk Shango now...I am going to go do a little work.   :roll:  :roll:

I don't know how Klaas does it after all this time.  She's a saint.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 04:36:56 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Morning%20Aft%20Evening/th1757blueflowerwonderful-1.gif)


Hi Anna...Girl get from under that rock....bugs and worms are under there!! :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:37:28 PM
Quote from: "msmarple"
I confess that I am not much into the S&S thing. But yesterday there was a re-post with a few sentences in French, and I think there were several others that included French. I remember being interested in that at the time - as a possible clue to identity. However, I simply could not take the time to "study" those posts.

French is not one of the "3 or 4" languages many on Aruba are likely speak - Pap, Dutch, Spanish, and English.

Folks there who came from The Netherlands might have some French - it's not uncommon in Europe (where many do speak at least a smattering of several languages).

Just thought I would throw that out as a possible avenue of research and speculation.


Hi MSMarple! I remember Simian saying something about being a blue blood frenchman. I'll see if I can't find the actual post.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 04:38:02 PM
Quote from: "KarmaRoundUp"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I keep wondering what favors were called in to protect the son of the judge. I would like to know things that happened before Paulus ever got to Aruba, his history, the cases he had influence over. I personally think that would open a huge can of worms and explain why all this for a few punks.

Hi Monkeys
I agree Shell,this is no coverup just for the Kalpoe's....it's for Joran and it's for Paulus.If only the Kalpoe's were involved,this would have been solved within the first few days of Natalee disappearing.
No,it's because of Joran,his father is protecting him and we all know he will do anything to protect his son even if it means bringing down the whole once happy island of aruba.Paulus is protected by his knowledge.I also would love to see all of the cases he has worked on in the past.



MONKEY DISCLAIMER!   It is not Paulus' power that is covering this up...it's Anita's power in the right places.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 04:39:11 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
From:
http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/2005_05_24_thru_may31.html

Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT brags at school to his friends about having sex with NATALEE. From the DUTCH news source “AD.nl”:

<QUOTE>

The next day at school, Joran arrogantly bragged to several of his school buddies who had been at the “Excelsior Casino” (and some who were at “Carlos 'N Charlie's”) and had seen Natalee with him, words to this effect, “Hey, I banged that girl last night.” He was telling the story several times [as he would see guys who had seen him the night before.… guys ask things like... “Did you score with that chick?” MY INSERTION] and he would give them his report.

But, then the schoolmaster called him in and told him to not be talking that way, because it is ‘on the news that she never made it back to the hotel.’ So, Joran (shocked by that news) quit telling of his conquest immediately.

<END QUOTE>

Also, the morning after NH disappeared [May 30, 2005], Joran came with a big bruise on his face and was sleeping in class and could only be woken up when he was pelted with (note?)books.

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she had spoken to the mother of a school student male witness about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT showing up at school the morning of 5-30 with a very noticeable bruise on his facial cheek.

On 7-15 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY stated that an Aruban woman had called her said she just wanted to make sure that BETH knew that Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT had a bruise on his face the morning of 5-30 at school. On 7-15 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that a colleague reporter had gone to Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT’s school on 6-9 to ask about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT. When TITO LACLE’s colleague asked about Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT to a person at the school he was told, “Oh, you mean that boy with the bruise.”


Not sure if any of this is considered "reliable" or "verified" but it what I found in a quick search.


thanks AZ...that's how I remember it....but sure couldn't find it like you did!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 04:39:59 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "msmarple"
I confess that I am not much into the S&S thing. But yesterday there was a re-post with a few sentences in French, and I think there were several others that included French. I remember being interested in that at the time - as a possible clue to identity. However, I simply could not take the time to "study" those posts.

French is not one of the "3 or 4" languages many on Aruba are likely speak - Pap, Dutch, Spanish, and English.

Folks there who came from The Netherlands might have some French - it's not uncommon in Europe (where many do speak at least a smattering of several languages).

Just thought I would throw that out as a possible avenue of research and speculation.


Hi MSMarple! I remember Simian saying something about being a blue blood frenchman. I'll see if I can't find the actual post.


Here ya go, Shadow;

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:18 am
F@#$ the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 04:40:17 PM
Quote from: "msmarple"
I confess that I am not much into the S&S thing. But yesterday there was a re-post with a few sentences in French, and I think there were several others that included French. I remember being interested in that at the time - as a possible clue to identity. However, I simply could not take the time to "study" those posts.

French is not one of the "3 or 4" languages many on Aruba are likely speak - Pap, Dutch, Spanish, and English.

Folks there who came from The Netherlands might have some French - it's not uncommon in Europe (where many do speak at least a smattering of several languages).

Just thought I would throw that out as a possible avenue of research and speculation.


Good point--I'd like to add that the French portions were in very poor French, too, for what it's worth.

I know on the Caribbean island of St. Martin, both French and Dutch are spoken.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 04:40:49 PM
Quote from: "KarmaRoundUp"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I keep wondering what favors were called in to protect the son of the judge. I would like to know things that happened before Paulus ever got to Aruba, his history, the cases he had influence over. I personally think that would open a huge can of worms and explain why all this for a few punks.

Hi Monkeys
I agree Shell,this is no coverup just for the Kalpoe's....it's for Joran and it's for Paulus.If only the Kalpoe's were involved,this would have been solved within the first few days of Natalee disappearing.
No,it's because of Joran,his father is protecting him and we all know he will do anything to protect his son even if it means bringing down the whole once happy island of aruba.Paulus is protected by his knowledge.I also would love to see all of the cases he has worked on in the past.

I also feel it is a well-oiled machine in aruba for covering-up crimes against tourist.  What happened to Natalee also happened to 3 others that I can think of. Bud Larson, Max deVries, and another man. I'm sure the details of each one is different but they all "disappeared" and the families were treated badly/threatened, and they ale just wants to claim they ran off for insurance $$$$.
I think the ata, ahata, whatever all those tourist getter orgs iare n aruba would help out p&jvds or any other privledge aruban.
And the cops there really don't want to get involved or do whatever is the causes least problems .


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 04:44:11 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Shango=MC
"I must feed the messengers"=brief the reporters
MC Mysteriously replaced the next day.





Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KKM wrote:
You really think Shango is MC???? Just curious.


It fits. She walks in all circles. Has knowledge of the Dutch, the Arubans, the local Government and the case. Then she is removed from her position the day after these posts.


FWIW - I do not think this person was Shango.


Klaas who do you think shango was/is?  I have never gotten into  the shango dango tamgo mumbo jumbo.....to me it leaves too much open to interpretation for my brain...but I'd be interested in learning who you think it was/is


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "msmarple"
I confess that I am not much into the S&S thing. But yesterday there was a re-post with a few sentences in French, and I think there were several others that included French. I remember being interested in that at the time - as a possible clue to identity. However, I simply could not take the time to "study" those posts.

French is not one of the "3 or 4" languages many on Aruba are likely speak - Pap, Dutch, Spanish, and English.

Folks there who came from The Netherlands might have some French - it's not uncommon in Europe (where many do speak at least a smattering of several languages).

Just thought I would throw that out as a possible avenue of research and speculation.


Hi MSMarple! I remember Simian saying something about being a blue blood frenchman. I'll see if I can't find the actual post.


Here ya go, Shadow;

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:18 am
F@#$ the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.


You beat me to it!  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 04:45:40 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
I know everyone keeps asking me who I think it is, but I have held off on that one, because I like to see how others come to their conclusions.  Since Gabe Leo claims it is not him, tell me, someone who it is?  I have long had my mind made up, but I refuse to say anymore than that.


Lala's please write yourself up for teasing .....no cussing, spitting ot teasing!! :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:46:15 PM
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I don't remember that quote...what exactly did he say?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on July 26, 2007, 04:47:45 PM
Quote from: "NM"

I also feel it is a well-oiled machine in aruba for covering-up crimes against tourist.  What happened to Natalee also happened to 3 others that I can think of. Bud Larson, Max deVries, and another man. I'm sure the details of each one is different but they all "disappeared" and the families were treated badly/threatened, and they ale just wants to claim they ran off for insurance $$$$.
I think the ata, ahata, whatever all those tourist getter orgs iare n aruba would help out p&jvds or any other privledge aruban.
And the cops there really don't want to get involved or do whatever is the causes least problems .


Oh I agree NM - and it pisses me off so badly.  Given that and the fact they skew their crime statistics....Makes it a place to avoid at all costs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I have no idea Lalas..  LMAO  Just recall hearing it was dogfood?


I remember it to Angie.,,,,don't know who said it...but there was lots of discussin about it being dog food...and I could never understand it...sorry to learn about you and your hubby....both of ya'll need to get well!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:49:07 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I don't remember that quote...what exactly did he say?


Posted Jun 30, 3:29 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House” | View Post
9. Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian thinks ydave is way off. The Simian is a relayer. The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones”.
The Simian just wants that everybody knows what is not said in the American Media.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 04:50:11 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I am sorry, I don't have a link.  That is why I used the disclaimer "IIRC" :D  :D I had actually thought of including the phrase "I don't have a link", but thought it might sound snippy :D


It was probably Bondia.


(http://bestsmileys.com/puking/1.gif)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I think that may mean one of the tourism groups.  S&B society likes to believe they are making decisions and affecting the country with their influence.  If Simian really understands Skull & Bones, the tourism groups seem to align themselves best with that 'society'.  

The only other thing I could think of would be the Lion's Club.  Lions are mentioned by Shango, but I don't know if Shango is really referring to this club or not.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I don't remember that quote...what exactly did he say?


The Simian thinks ydave is way off. The Simian is a relayer. The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones”.
The Simian just wants that everybody knows what is not said in the American Media.
Posted Jun 30, 3:20 PM


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 04:54:40 PM
San, I see you lurking . . . I wanted to disuss some of your posts from last night. I also beleive there is a Miami connection for the porn. I also believe that was why Paulus made a trip to Miami. Has anyone ever considered John Charles Croes or his father could be the Miami link? Just thinking out loud. He was supposively online messaging with Deepak and he lives in Miami. Wonder if his father is into real estate??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I think that may mean one of the tourism groups.  S&B society likes to believe they are making decisions and affecting the country with their influence.  If Simian really understands Skull & Bones, the tourism groups seem to align themselves best with that 'society'.  

The only other thing I could think of would be the Lion's Club.  Lions are mentioned by Shango, but I don't know if Shango is really referring to this club or not.


Wasn't there some discussion a while back about masons??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 05:00:36 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
San, I see you lurking . . . I wanted to disuss some of your posts from last night. I also beleive there is a Miami connection for the porn. I also believe that was why Paulus made a trip to Miami. Has anyone ever considered John Charles Croes or his father could be the Miami link? Just thinking out loud. He was supposively online messaging with Deepak and he lives in Miami. Wonder if his father is into real estate??


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


I have often thought the second line of this post was meant to provide some clue to a video that existed at one time.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl


Could the babylonians "still know the girl" through a video?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!


A hint at "why the cover up"?  Is "His Lordship" the govenor general, the only person in Aruba appointed by the Queen?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 05:03:03 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "shadow"
San, I see you lurking . . . I wanted to disuss some of your posts from last night. I also beleive there is a Miami connection for the porn. I also believe that was why Paulus made a trip to Miami. Has anyone ever considered John Charles Croes or his father could be the Miami link? Just thinking out loud. He was supposively online messaging with Deepak and he lives in Miami. Wonder if his father is into real estate??


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


I have often thought the second line of this post was meant to provide some clue to a video that existed at one time.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl


Could the babylonians "still know the girl" through a video?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!


A hint at "why the cover up"?  Is "His Lordship" the govenor general, the only person in Aruba appointed by the Queen?


I have often wondered what he meant by Lordship . . . who was he referring to?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 05:03:04 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I don't remember that quote...what exactly did he say?


Posted Jun 30, 3:29 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House” | View Post
9. Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian thinks ydave is way off. The Simian is a relayer. The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones”.
The Simian just wants that everybody knows what is not said in the American Media.


for those like me who many not know the background of the Skull & Bones society....


The Order of Skull and Bones, once known as The Brotherhood of Death,[1] is a secret society based at Yale University, in New Haven, Connecticut, and is one of the oldest student secret societies in the United States. Skull and Bones has maintained its selective membership and Masonic-inspired rituals since its founding in 1832. The society's alumni organization, which owns its properties and oversees undergraduate activity, is the Russell Trust Association, named after one of Bones' founding members and is featured in the movie The Good Shepherd.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 05:03:14 PM
Whew!  I signed on to take a mind meld break and got only further melded...

Hey Monkeys....
 
I remember the dog food comments b/c I remember thinking at the time, dang who in the hell has dog food delivered by a furniture truck?  And now that time has passed, I have to wonder if the bloody matress didn't come from the house and it was Natalee's blood.  The furniture truck really brought them a new matress and now that we see how disposal works on the island, isn't it possible that they took the "old" matress away and just dumped it?

ANG.. you and hubby are in my prayers... be well soon!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 05:04:16 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I don't remember that quote...what exactly did he say?


Posted Jun 30, 3:29 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House” | View Post
9. Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian thinks ydave is way off. The Simian is a relayer. The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones”.
The Simian just wants that everybody knows what is not said in the American Media.


for those like me who many not know the background of the Skull & Bones society....


The Order of Skull and Bones, once known as The Brotherhood of Death,[1] is a secret society based at Yale University, in New Haven, Connecticut, and is one of the oldest student secret societies in the United States. Skull and Bones has maintained its selective membership and Masonic-inspired rituals since its founding in 1832. The society's alumni organization, which owns its properties and oversees undergraduate activity, is the Russell Trust Association, named after one of Bones' founding members and is featured in the movie The Good Shepherd.


Thanks for posting that info!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 05:04:52 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I think that may mean one of the tourism groups.  S&B society likes to believe they are making decisions and affecting the country with their influence.  If Simian really understands Skull & Bones, the tourism groups seem to align themselves best with that 'society'.  

The only other thing I could think of would be the Lion's Club.  Lions are mentioned by Shango, but I don't know if Shango is really referring to this club or not.


Wasn't there some discussion a while back about masons??


Yes, there was, but I missed a lot of that.

Skull & Bones is not actually the masons (shriners), but a 'society' of Ivy Leaguers who practice the art of "running the  world" sotospeak.

Here's a pretty good link for info on S&B:

http://tinyurl.com/zoc2u

I gotta head home now.  I hope to be back for some more Tango later.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 05:05:34 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Whew!  I signed on to take a mind meld break and got only further melded...

Hey Monkeys....
 
I remember the dog food comments b/c I remember thinking at the time, dang who in the hell has dog food delivered by a furniture truck?  And now that time has passed, I have to wonder if the bloody matress didn't come from the house and it was Natalee's blood.  The furniture truck really brought them a new matress and now that we see how disposal works on the island, isn't it possible that they took the "old" matress away and just dumped it?

ANG.. you and hubby are in my prayers... be well soon!


hi Mrs. Red......you and I think alike on this subject!! I think it is not only possible but probable...JMO


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I think that may mean one of the tourism groups.  S&B society likes to believe they are making decisions and affecting the country with their influence.  If Simian really understands Skull & Bones, the tourism groups seem to align themselves best with that 'society'.  

The only other thing I could think of would be the Lion's Club.  Lions are mentioned by Shango, but I don't know if Shango is really referring to this club or not.


Wasn't there some discussion a while back about masons??


Yes, there was, but I missed a lot of that.

Skull & Bones is not actually the masons (shriners), but a 'society' of Ivy Leaguers who practice the art of "running the  world" sotospeak.

Here's a pretty good link for info on S&B:

http://tinyurl.com/zoc2u

I gotta head home now.  I hope to be back for some more Tango later.


Later Truth!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 05:06:16 PM
Gotta run . . . BBL!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Gotta run . . . BBL!


See ya....shadow and truthseeker


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 05:11:22 PM
Sunny... I saw beachwego lurking earlier...have you talked to her?


there was so much misinformation from the get go that I am not sure how we have managed to collectively recall all that we do!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Sunny... I saw beachwego lurking earlier...have you talked to her?


there was so much misinformation from the get go that I am not sure how we have managed to collectively recall all that we do!


Hi Mrs. Red...no I saw her though....hopefully she'll come back......we miss her.....

that's the problem...the misinformation..... :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 26, 2007, 05:13:34 PM
Mrs. Red..you and I must need to change our deodorant or sumptin....we seems to clear the board or be invisible!!  LOL...check your email


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I don't remember that quote...what exactly did he say?


Posted Jun 30, 3:29 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House” | View Post
9. Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian thinks ydave is way off. The Simian is a relayer. The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones”.
The Simian just wants that everybody knows what is not said in the American Media.


Hmmm...I'd say it was to suggest that he's an insider. Going back to read what everyone else said...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 05:14:03 PM
dern.. duty calls. :twisted:

work is overrated... but I still gotta do it..

I will BBL... keep the faith y'all


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 05:14:07 PM
:shock:  got hubby all fixed up..  <yuck>

Lalas.. or anyone? Here is another I found in the old thread.. I am now looking for a post about renho i saw.. driving me nuts,, cant find it  :x


MRS RED   TY!!    <kiss me.. I got cooties..  :wink: >


Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
"the dice throwers rolled"
"mary rolled"

"the gamblers also took note"

the gamblers=the dice throwers=some of the the students?

The gamblers are not the Arubans, the Dutch, the bad guys the ruling class so or the children thereof so who are they?

Some people who were in the casino know where NH was brought? Call me nuts but I think there is something to this Shango business. If I were there, and the only thing I had to go on was 3 boys who are not talking I'd be looking for the stinky cave or house with the music on the dirt road.
 
 


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 05:20:00 PM
Fredis Refunjol is the current governor of Aruba; he was appointed by Queen Beatrix in '04. He's the head of Aruban government.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 05:25:37 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
San, I see you lurking . . . I wanted to disuss some of your posts from last night. I also beleive there is a Miami connection for the porn. I also believe that was why Paulus made a trip to Miami. Has anyone ever considered John Charles Croes or his father could be the Miami link? Just thinking out loud. He was supposively online messaging with Deepak and he lives in Miami. Wonder if his father is into real estate??


I'm here now shadow I stepped away for a few minutes.  There seems to be some sory of connection in Florida.  You are right John Charles Croes could be the link.  We don't know exactly what Deepak told him because I believe those records are missing information.  I also believe the link could be through Ernesto who is Freddy's older brother.  This guy has high end customers and might some of his customers want a certain video.  Did Paulus fly to Florida to squash or seek help regarding these videos.  I remember Ernesto making a comment saying you had to have connections to make it in his business and he had the connections.  We have not heard a peep from Ernesto since all this happened.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: "San"
I'm here now shadow I stepped away for a few minutes.  There seems to be some sory of connection in Florida.  You are right John Charles Croes could be the link.  We don't know exactly what Deepak told him because I believe those records are missing information.  I also believe the link could be through Ernesto who is Freddy's older brother.  This guy has high end customers and might some of his customers want a certain video.  Did Paulus fly to Florida to squash or seek help regarding these videos.  I remember Ernesto making a comment saying you had to have connections to make it in his business and he had the connections.  We have not heard a peep from Ernesto since all this happened.


Wasn't John Charles Croes the person Deepak was IMing when he got home from doing whatever that fateful night?

If he did IM and the subject matter was a porn video of Natalee, that could suggest that Deepak didn't know everything and was sent home or left before the whole story played out. (I think that because, clearly, why would he contact a porn-connected friend if he'd just made a sex tape of a girl who later died?) Just speculating here...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 05:32:21 PM
Ok Found some RENHO crap finally.. FWIW oh and Joran and school again..


Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:00 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
KackyLacky wrote:
flutiegirl wrote:
did anyone else find it strange that julia renfro was almost praising steve croes? like sickly gushing over him , also, i know i read here somewhere a meeting with the headmaster, joran and jorans dad that said that he came in late that morning.

if joran was in school and on time then why wont his father confirm whether or not he was in school and on time?


Yes---said he was a "sweet" guy---she as usual spun it and forgot to mention he lied. We are suppoesed to believe according to her, that SC "just wanted to meet" deepak and offered up a false statement to LE in order to be with him.
Julia spins alot of things. especially about joran. That is why I think someone other than julia should confirm the school/exam/bus ride story. joran's own dad didn't remember waking joran up that am for school.

 
 
 
air23ac



Joined: 17 Jun 2005

 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:06 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
why did someone have to bring up julie renfro????

can you say on the payroll? he was such a sweet guy? he just wanted to meet deepak? what is he 12? give me a break....he lied, he obstructed justice........hey julie, wake up!!!!

each day this goes one it gets more and more unbelievable how there is something seriously shady here.
 
 






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 05:43:52 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "San"
I'm here now shadow I stepped away for a few minutes.  There seems to be some sory of connection in Florida.  You are right John Charles Croes could be the link.  We don't know exactly what Deepak told him because I believe those records are missing information.  I also believe the link could be through Ernesto who is Freddy's older brother.  This guy has high end customers and might some of his customers want a certain video.  Did Paulus fly to Florida to squash or seek help regarding these videos.  I remember Ernesto making a comment saying you had to have connections to make it in his business and he had the connections.  We have not heard a peep from Ernesto since all this happened.


Wasn't John Charles Croes the person Deepak was IMing when he got home from doing whatever that fateful night?

If he did IM and the subject matter was a porn video of Natalee, that could suggest that Deepak didn't know everything and was sent home or left before the whole story played out. (I think that because, clearly, why would he contact a porn-connected friend if he'd just made a sex tape of a girl who later died?) Just speculating here...

I think Deepak witnessed something very bad and the transportation of a porn video that night was the last thing on his mind.  Now if you ask me if Freddy or Joran might have done this I would say it's highly possible.  Let's not forget that Deepak was seen outside his house with two other people washing his car.  Yes Deepak might have not known the final outcome but he knew it was bad and it was bad enough for Paulus to send him home to start the alibi and clean up the evidence (his car).  That alibi would not consist of the transmission of a video on his computer.  Joran was the one downloading porn and those records were tinkered with also.  Who would have been in this position to transmit the video.  In one of his PV's Deepak said they went to Freddy's to return the camera.  Could Deepak have done this the next day after realizing what type of film he had in his possession (snuff).  Did he do this at the internet cafe.  Just thinking here.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 26, 2007, 05:46:52 PM
Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "tcumom"
Angie and Muffy ~ I'm  :lol: 'cause y'all posted at the same time! ha.
Okay, I guess I'll go with dog food and let it go....I have no recollection of that.  :oops:  :oops

Thanks for answering.  :D  :D


I saw Angie and I posted at same time.   :)  :) Who REALLY knows what was or wasn't picked up or delivered in the truck.  Even if someone produced a bill of sale tomorrow, I'm not sure it would be the truth.  Not coming from the Sloots or the island of Aruba.


Is it known who took the picture?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "San"
I'm here now shadow I stepped away for a few minutes.  There seems to be some sory of connection in Florida.  You are right John Charles Croes could be the link.  We don't know exactly what Deepak told him because I believe those records are missing information.  I also believe the link could be through Ernesto who is Freddy's older brother.  This guy has high end customers and might some of his customers want a certain video.  Did Paulus fly to Florida to squash or seek help regarding these videos.  I remember Ernesto making a comment saying you had to have connections to make it in his business and he had the connections.  We have not heard a peep from Ernesto since all this happened.


Wasn't John Charles Croes the person Deepak was IMing when he got home from doing whatever that fateful night?

If he did IM and the subject matter was a porn video of Natalee, that could suggest that Deepak didn't know everything and was sent home or left before the whole story played out. (I think that because, clearly, why would he contact a porn-connected friend if he'd just made a sex tape of a girl who later died?) Just speculating here...

I think Deepak witnessed something very bad and the transportation of a porn video that night was the last thing on his mind.  Now if you ask me if Freddy or Joran might have done this I would say it's highly possible.  Let's not forget that Deepak was seen outside his house with two other people washing his car.  Yes Deepak might have not known the final outcome but he knew it was bad and it was bad enough for Paulus to send him home to start the alibi and clean up the evidence (his car).  That alibi would not consist of the transmission of a video on his computer.  Joran was the one downloading porn and those records were tinkered with also.  Who would have been in this position to transmit the video.  In one of his PV's Deepak said they went to Freddy's to return the camera.  Could Deepak have done this the next day after realizing what type of film he had in his possession (snuff).  Did he do this at the internet cafe.  Just thinking here.


Do you think the snuff film was intentional? (It would certainly explain the charges of premeditated murder, which I have never been able to make sense of. I remember the detail of Freddy's camera in the PV, too.

I have to go now and wish I didn't. Off to a night of girlie fun. I would love to continue this conversation later, San. I hope my hubby won't need the computer to work tonight. (He'll be working one way or the other but I'm hoping for paperwork instead of computer work, if it has to be one of the two).

Bye, monkeys!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:09:06 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??

OK back again. Catching up.

I wonder if a person really in a skull n bones type society would announce it .


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:11:26 PM
:shock:  snoopin around other threads and came across this? I recall Klaas posting this earlier today? BUT  WOW to whomever sent her info. Guess Reality is a liar liar pants on fire.   :shock:  I apologize its long, but an interesting read.. looks like folks saved his posts??  :twisted:


klaasend
Site Admin


Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Location: SoCal
 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
klaasend wrote:
Posted by Reality at BFN (thought I'd capture it before he deletes it):

Reality
Newbie

Posts: 7

Re: LATEST INFORMATION (VIDEOS & DISCUSSION) - PART 2
« Reply #461 on: Today at 06:26:34 »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For nearly 2 years now, both gagirl and myself have posted on this forum.
During that time both of us have been slandered and bashed in the open forum and even worse in the PM system.
Gagirl has even had her private information splashed over the internet, yet we both have returned to BFN as asked. We are here because we are asked to be here, not to cause problems but to offer our views and opinions to the discussion. To help find answers.

Have any of you ever seen any posts by either gagirl or myself that has bashed, slandered, belittled, accused either Beth, Natalee, Robin or Dave ? And I’m not talking about posts not made by ourselves.
No matter what is rumoured neither of us has ever spoke against the family.

These new statements, call them what you wish, that are now being said about cocaine usage, surely these should be discussed in a civilized manner in order to try and figure out if these things are indeed true, would this not be the prudent thing to do ?

Should Robin Holloway see any of our posts and objected to the content of that post, both gagirl and myself would have no hesitation in removing the post that offended.

These latest rumours making the rounds about us being part of some Disinformation Group is the most ludicrous thing that has yet been posted on any of these forums and yes, these accusations have been and continue to be made here on BFN.
Time and again, Debbie has posted to address the post not the poster and yet these things are allowed to be posted whenever we attempt a discussion. If we do not respond we are avoiding the question, if we do respond we are derailing the thread. It's a no win situation, and one that could and should be corrected.

I do not include MIP6 in this as I’m sure he will speak for himself.


To answer your question Reality - YES


I received this nice compilation of Reality's posts anonymously:

Dearest Reality/Alvin/Clive/etc/etc,

Ask and ye shall receive...........................

Care to make any other denials that can be proven false?

REALITY

Reality seems to wear a different face in accordance with the current status of this case. A sampling of his true feelings about the victim and her family are listed below.

DISCLAIMER

Although admin at BFN denies these posts were made by Reality, bloggers with higher levels of credibility assure us they were in fact made by the same Reality posting at BFN.



1. Reality believes Beth is using the disappearance of her daughter to make money…

as i told you from yesterday early in the morning, beth arrived
in aruba again with a group of bandits, terrorists.
LOT IS HAPPENING IN ARUBA .
ITS NOT ABOUT NAT ANYMORE !!
ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND A GROUP OF BANDITS !!
AND A CIRCUS FULL OF CLOWNS FOLLOWING THESE TERRORISTS !!
IS NAT GOING TO POP UP ???
IS THIS WHY BETH BROUGHT THE PARAMOUNT MOVIE CREW IN,
FOR THEIR NEW MOVIE ???
TO GET MORE MONEY OUT OF YOU GUYS ????

reality Posted: Nov 2 2005, 11:18 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?s=e57331df5e705dd9fce2ffe8957dbe76&showtopic=113

2. Reality believes that Beth is out to harm the Aruban people ….

Beth is in aruba , arrived yesterday, not to look for nat. but to look
for trouble !!!
THIS TIME THIS GROUP OF GANGSTERS AND TERRORISTS WILL GET
THE TROUBLE THEY CAME TO LOOK FOR !!!
she came with a tv crew and a crew from the paramout pictures, to
harm Aruba and its people !!
POLICE WILL HAVE TO ARREST THIS PERSON FOR INTEROGATION !!
GOVERNMENT OF ARUBA OR HOLLAND WILL HAVE TO DECLARE THIS
PERSON AND GROUP PERSONA NON GRATA TO THE ISLAND !!!
THE PEOPLE OF ARUBA SHOULD STAND UP NOW AND WITH ALL FORCE
AGAINST THIS GROUP OF TERRORISTS THAT CAME TO ATTACK OUR
ISLAND,
ARUBANS STAND UP NOW TO DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY, YOUR CHIL-
DRENS FUTURE.
ARUBANS ARE NICE, BUT NOT STUPID !!!
WE ARE GOING NOW TO WHERE THESE TERRORISTS ARE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

reality Posted: Nov 2 2005, 07:10 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=115

3. Reality implies that Beth instructed MB students and chaperones to remain silent…

Chief of investigating team of police,
said; now it will have to be proven , that nat or beth or together
ARE NOT SCAMPERS !!!!!!
ALL IN THE GROUP AND ALL CHAPARONES SHOULD CALL NOW;
297 587 0009 OR FAX 297 587 0051 ,
POLICE STATION NOORD ARUBA,
LAST CALL , DONT WORRY WHAT BETH TOLD YOU, TO KEEP QUIET,!!!
IF THEY TURN OUT TO BE SCAMPERS , ALL THEIR DONATION AND
INSURANCE MONEY WILL BE CONFISCATED FOR DAMAGES AND COSTS
DONE IN AND TO ARUBA !!! 4+3= 7 MILLION ?????
PLUS BY LAW A COUPLE YEARS JAIL TIME IN ARUBA, TOGETHER WITH
ALL THE CRIMINALS.
SO IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE TOGETHER WITH THE SCAMPERS IN
IN JAIL OR IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE ARRESTED IN CRISTMAS OR
NEW YEARS WEEK FOR INTEROGATION AS SUSPECTS, DO YOURSELF
A FAVOR AND TALK NOW !!!!!
NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT ALL THE SUE CASES AGAINST THIS
BETH.
Nothing is happening in Aruba, last declaration of equu search team
they searched a couple of days with dave, found nothing, the third
and last search efford, they are done and gone. For this kind of
people all hope is gone, they cant even find a body, let stand a life
person !!!!
WE SAY ; WE WILL KEEP ON SAYING SHE IS ALIFE BUT NOT IN ARUBA !!!
REALITY NEVER HURT ANYBODY, ANY CAUSE OR NATION !!!!
MY NAME IS NOT REALITY.........
I AM ........REALITY ....!!!!!!!!!!!!

reality Posted: Oct 30 2005, 09:32 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=113

4. Reality says Mountain Brook students have the answer ……

A MASS DEMONSTRATION CALLED FOR TOMORROW.
TO SHOW BETH AND GROUP OF GANGSTERS AND CLOWNS
THAT THE ARUBAN CITIZENS ARE FED UP WITH THEM.
THE ANSWERS ARE NOW IN MOUNTAIN BROOK !
THAT THE U.S. MEDIA DOES NOT REPRESENT THE U.S. PEOPLE !!
THAT THE ARUBANS ARE NICE, BUT NOT STUPID !!!
THAT BETH IS NOT LOOKING FOR NAT. BUT FOR MONEY AND NOW TROUBLE !!!
PARAMOUT PICTURES HAS NO RIGHT , NO PERMIT TO FILM ANYTHING !!
STAND BY FOR MORE INFO...........
FROM REALITY, THE ONLY TRUTH SOURCE ...!!!!!

reality Posted: Nov 2 2005, 09:08 PM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=119

5. Reality claims that Beth is not welcome in Aruba …..

BETH WAS BROUGHT THIS MORNING TO THE POLICE STATION
IN NOORD FROM HERE TO THE AIRPORT, OUT OF ARUBA !
NO DECLARATIONS , YET, RELEASED !!
HER STAY WAS VERY , VERY SHORT THIS TIME, CAUSE SHES
NOT WELCOME IN ARUBA ANYMORE, LIKE I TOLD YOU BEFORE
SHE CAME !!
PARAMOUT PICTURE GROUP WITH TRUCKLOADS OF EQUIPMENT
GONE TOO, TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM !!
THIS TIME THERE WAS NO PARTIES FOR BETH, NO COCKTAILS,
NO CASINOS, NO SHOPPING, NO FREE DINNING AND STAYS !!
NO DONATIONS, NO MOVIES, NO BOOKS,NO STORY TO SELL !!
HOPE THEY HAVE STRAIGHTEN HER HEAD IN THE POLICE STATION !!
REALITY NEVER HURT ANYBODY, ANY CAUSE OR NATION !!!

Reality Posted: Nov 3 2005, 01:45 PM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=120

6. Reality claims Beth should be sued by Deepak, Joran and Satish …..

thes 3 guys should sue beth for damaging their names without
any proof.
who beth think she is, she can rule the us circus clowns of the media,
but she can never give orders to arubas prime minister or our judges.
since beth is full of donations money, these guys can use this for
their studies !!
SUPREME COURT DICISION ; THEY ARE FREE , TO GO WHEREVER THEY WISH

reality Posted: Sep 15 2005, 10:31 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=85

7. Reality gloats regarding Beth’s dire situation …..

MONDAY , STAY PENDING , PRIME MINISTER OF ARUBA GOT TIRED
OF THIS ANTI ARUBA ARAB FAT GUY , WHOS SUPPORTING BETH,
WILL BRING HIM TO COURT ON MONDAY.
MONDAY.. STAY PENDING FOR DEMONSTRATION CALLED IN FRONT OF
COURT HOUSE TO PROTEST AGAINST, THIS ANTI ARUBA GUY, BETH AND
US MEDIA.
BETH WENT TO ALABAMA MAYBE TO RUN FROM THIS HEAT, NOW A MAJORHURRICANE WILL HIT ALABAMA, NOW SHE LL HAVE TO RUN , TOGETHER
WITH ALL THE LAWMAKERS, THAT ASKED THE PEOPLE OF ALABAMA
TO BOYCOTT ARUBA.
STRANGE, BIG DAY FOR BOTH PERSONS TRYING TO GIVE ARUBA A BAD NAME!!
ON THE SAME DAY ........ MONDAY.........
THE UNIVERSAL LAW !!!
ARUBA NEVER DID HARM NAT.
ARUBA IS INDEED A SAFE ISLAND !!!

reality Posted: Aug 28 2005, 08:01 PM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=55

8. Reality bashes Natalee …..

thinkaboutit; I agree with you,
nats so called friends have not been investigated enough , what do they
know about nats exboyfriend. ?
from the news i have heard she was drinking alcohol the whole day till
the next, on boat trips, then concert then carlos and charlie,
where were your friends ?
I do hope and pray for her safe return.
the parents should have known about this drinking problem.

reality Posted: Sep 2 2005, 12:18 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=55

9. Reality claims Beth is dining and gambling while expecting volunteers to dive ….

AN ANTI ARUBA GUY IS ASKING FOR VOLUNTEERS TO DIVE AND LOOK FOR NAT FOR 1 HOUR.
THIS GUY IS PROMISING BETH AND NANCY DESGRACE TO PERSONALY WITH A GROUP TO DIVE AND FIND NATALEE ON THIS CIRCUS SHOW.
WEEKS AND WEEKS ARE PASSING , NO DIVERS ARE SHOWING UP.
WONDER WHY?? NO PAYMENT, NO WORK, WHERE IS ALL THE MILLIONS

BETH RECEIVING IN THIS SOUTHBANK ACCOUNT??
WHY BETH WANT TO KEEP ALL THE MONEY, RECEIVE EVERYTHING FREE, EXPECT
EVERY SEARCHGROUP TO WORK FOR FREE,WHILE SHE S DINNING AND WINNING AND PLAYING IN CASINOS??
ARUBA HAS MORE THAN 500 CERTIFIED DIVERS AND THOUSANDS OF REGULAR DIVERS.
THEY EVEN CANT GET 30 DIVERS.
YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN , THANKS TO BETHS ATTITUDE ..........

reality Posted: Aug 26 2005, 10:11 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=50

10. Reality claims it is Beth’s attitude ….

The poeple of aruba lost interest in the case!
No one is talking about it, its not on the news anymore, no one is looking for nat
because the best searched teams of the us plus the latest equipment has been used, nothing.

All posters have been removed, thanks to beths attitude against aruba!!

Only thing that happened tonight ,i supose the us media doesnt know anymore what to do,besides sitting at the poolbar drinking pina coladas.........siesta and
parties, they came up with a terrific plan to go in the jail institute with hidden camaras, against the privancy law, to film Joran, as if they still dont know who Joran is.

This NBC media was taken to court tonight and judge ruled that what was filmed of joran cannot be aired in the us or aruba, if they do so without permission of joran,NBC wil have to pay Joran ONE MILLION FLORINS for every time they do so !! About $$ 600.000.=

When will these poeple start showing some RESPECT?????

Reality Posted: Aug 24 2005, 08:38 PM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=39

11. Reality claims that Aruba is paying for all Beth’s expenses ….

you should be open minded, saeker, im talking in general ,i didnot say you or on this forum , im saying the u.s. media is attacking aruba every day, beth is behind all this boycott issue to aruba,while receiving everything for free, help from arubans, dining and free hotels, free transportations, beth is shopping and playing in casinos,having a nice stay in paradise island, asking everybody for donations and when asked what is being done with all the $$$ she wont anser this question.

Reality Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:58 am

http://forum.prophecies.us/viewtopic.php?t=8081&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1425

12. Reality claims that Beth believes the white race is superior …..

when people like you and beth talk about your children , its clear that
you and beth think your child is better than a black or latino child !
Thats why I say you are sick and need help !
WHY THE MEDIA DONT GIVE MUCH ATTENTION WHEN A BLACK CHILD OR ADULT IS MISSING ?? BECAUSE THEY DESCRIMINATE, WILL DO ANYTHING FOR MONEY, BECAUSE THEY ARE CIRCUS CLOWNS, BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK.!!
you still havent heard beth stayed for free more than 3 months in 5 stars hotels
in paradise , wine and dine for free everyday in a different restaurant, play
casinos, go shopping, ect, just to shop she pays.
all search groups were on voluntary basis.!
so you tell me what did she pay!!
I work like the judges only with facts not rumors and emotions.!
You have enough time to educate your child, that when the moment comes she s
all alone she knows how to behave, what to do , what not to do, wherever
she is this moment is going to come believe me.

Reality Posted: Sep 13 2005, 04:28 PM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=65

13. Reality claims that Beth embellishes the truth ….

the boy admitted having normal sex with her.
THE REST IS MADE UP BY BETH .
BY NOW EVERYONE KNOWS BETH.

reality Posted: Sep 14 2005, 10:37 AM

14. Reality claims Beth refuses to look further than Aruba for Natalee …..

want some.........reality
nat is a missing person, till her body is not found, this will stay so.
tiil her body is not found, she is alive somewhere , in a boat or in venezuela,
beth refuses to look for nat in an other country, only she knows why !

Reality Posted: Aug 28 2005, 10:32 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=52

15. Reality believes that Joran, Deepak and Satish should sue Beth …..

now all 3 are free of anything, they should sue beth ,nancy and us media
of damaging their names !

Reality Posted: Sep 15 2005, 10:22 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=52

16. Reality implicates everybody but Joran, Deepak and Satish …..

nat will decide when to pop up !
or if beth still in control of her , will decide when nat should pop up.!
Stay in the reality; If nobody is looking anymore in Aruba or other countries
she will not be found !!!
I will stay with my opinion; everyone is innocent till proven guilty !
no one can proof the 3 were the last with her !
they declared from day one, they had sex or
romance with her, changed by beth they raped
or violated her.
If she been killed it could be another person !
What about boyfriend black that beth could not
accept ?
Why did he followed nat to Aruba ?
What did he do to nat ?
The girls in her group should be investigated !
OR
Is this a plan of beth ???

Reality Posted: Sep 10 2005, 11:21 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=77

17. Reality claims Beth is only after money and revenge ….

Haven t You noticed beth is not looking for nat.
beth never looked for nat in aruba, the Arubans were looking for nat.
beth is not looking for the truth, investigating the whole group.
NAT HAD A COLORED BOYFRIEND THAT FOLLOWED THE GROUP TO ARUBA.
BETH IS AFTER 2 THINGS AND NOT NATALEE, 1. MONEY 2. VENGEANCE !!
why is beth lying all the time if shes only looking for her daughter ??

reality Posted: Sep 17 2005, 04:55 PM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=88

18. Reality gloats because Joran, Deepak and Satish are free …..

Supreme Court ,group of judges from Curacao dicided that this case is
finito !!
ther never was a case of charching these guys with anything !
now there is nothing to arrest them for suspects neither !
So they are free of anything, they can do and travel where they wish !!

Reality Posted: Sep 15 2005, 10:16 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=84

19. Reality claims that Beth and the MB students are now suspects ……

chief of police is finally talking,
asking beth to come to join the investigation, a lot of
questions for her to answer !!
A lot of questions for the whole group that were asked to
keep quiet !!
A lot of questions for the chaparones !!
So you see as i told you the first part of the investigation
is ready or nearly closed.
But now they are going to start with the second part of
the investigation where the answers may be !!!
All these people are suspects, they will be forced by
law to give all information, cause aint fair when you
are talking bad of Aruba, its people, its police, its
government, ect . AND YOU ARE HOLDING BACK
ON VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION.!!!!!!
CHIEF OF POLICE COMMENTS ON THE MILLIONS DOLLAR
ACCOUNT OF BETH AND WHY DAVE FATHER OF NAT.
DO NOT HAVE ACCES OF THIS MONEY FOR THE SEARCH.
AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE BETH IS ONLY AFTER MONEY,
IS NOT PAYING ANY BILLS, WANTS EVERYTHING FREE,
IS NOT LOOKING FOR NAT. ANYWHERE.
DONT BE STUPID , STOP THE DONATIONS AND THIS CASE
WILL BE OVER. THIS IS A MONEY-SICK PERSON !!!!
REALITY WITH THE REALITY AGAIN, OVER AND OVER !!!
OK GUYS YOU HAVE NOW ONLY NOW THE CHANCE TO TELL
THE WHOLE STORY AFTER 5 MONTHS.
IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TOO, ONE BY ONE OF YOU WILL BE
INVESTIGATED, MAYBE ARRESTED FOR QUESTIONING,
IN THE U.S.A. BY THE ARUBAN-DUTCH POLICE TOGETHER
WITH THE F.B.I.
ALL SUSPECTS IN ARUBA HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED,
NOW ITS YOUR TURN !!!!!!!

Reality Posted: Oct 26 2005, 09:45 AM

http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=112


REALITY – BFN POSTS

1. Reality negates Beth’s work by promoting Aruba as a safe place to vacation ....

Dear Curves,

I am truly saddened that you have allowed your fine organization to be swayed to a very small minority of hate mongers & xenophobes who for the most part have never even set foot in Aruba let alone even heard of Aruba prior to May 31st, 2005.

You’re pulling of the Aruba sweepstakes speaks volumes to a company being swayed by lies & fabrications.

As an American citizen living in Aruba for many years now let me give you a perspective that none of the “protest” emails can even come close to.

Aruba is by far the safest island destination in the Caribbean.
Aruba’s judicial system is based on Dutch law, world renowned as a fair and balanced system.

Aruba’s people are highly educated individuals where most here speak at least 3 to 5 languages.
Aruba has had ONE missing person in the last year, and that person may not even be a victim of a crime.

You have done your valued customers a disservice by pulling your Aruba sweepstakes by depriving them the opportunity to truly experience what an island paradise really is.

If you would like more information about the real Aruba please email at the following and I will be more than happy to set the record straight with facts not the fiction you have based your decision on to pull your Aruba Sweepstakes.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=2854.150


2. Reality trashes Beth ....

.... The US media is attacking Aruba every day, Beth is behind all this boycott issue to Aruba, while receiving everything for free, help from Arubans, dining and free hotels, free transportations, Beth is shopping and playing in casinos, having a nice stay in paradise island, asking everybody for donations and when asked what is being done with all the $$$ she wont answer this question.

Reality Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:58 am

http://forum.prophecies.us/viewtopic.php?t=8081&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1425

3. Reality trashes the Mountain Brook students.....

Those MB Brats, I wonder if they have started talking yet, possibly in the last year, whilst in the real world and away from the bosoms of their Mama's ?

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4226.msg148163#msg148163
August 18, 2005

4. Reality believes the Mountain Brook students are unwilling to cooperate in the investigation ......

Yes it is very strange that a Senator had to basically, URGE them to co-operate.

That doesn't make any sense, don't you think ?

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4454.30
August 3, 2005

5. Reality disrespects Americans ….

They say that travel broadens the mind
Unless of course, you are American
Where it tends to widen the a**

Note: rude image

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4580.msg145899#msg145899
August 12, 2005

6. Reality blames the media because the case is not solved……

I agree and also if FOX hadn't got in peoples faces with their brand of American Sensationalism, this case would have been solved ages ago.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4042.msg121429
June 17, 2005


7. Reality believes the slandering of Joran can be blamed on the American Right Wing media …..

Interesting post, but how is the conclusion arrived at that Joran was wild ?
From what I have read, seen and heard, this young fellow seems pretty normal, nothing wilder than the MB Kids that were on Aruba.
In fact, a little pussy-cat when compared to kids that age that I have seen and don't even begin to tell me that does not apply to kids from the US.
One has to take much of the slandering of this kid with a pinch of salt, these are enuendos put forth by the Right Wing US Media, much the same as was applied to the alledged victim of Duke.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4006.msg121427
June 17, 2006


8. Reality disagrees with the family’s support of the boycott ….

I have to agree with you on this, in my tried and tested opinion the only achievment the Boycott can claim is that of offending innocent Aruban People and hampering the investigation.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?action=search2
September 16, 2005

9. Reality believes the those at the Refugee site are “nice folk” ….

But the vast majority of the Refugees are just nice people wanting the TRUTH of what happened to Natalee.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4454.30
August 3, 2005



GAGIRL

Gagirl – moderator at BlogsForNatalee - tries to muddy the waters and take the focus off of the 3 suspects…..

Question: Is any other suspect or angle out of the question for you to consider?

I refuse to even read it! 0 (0%)
I will shoot and derail any topic that does not say J2K did it. 0 (0%)
I will read it and consider it. 35 (89.7%)
Doesn't matter..J2K did it. 4 (10.3%)

Total Voters: 39


http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=513a6055bacad3215179086e758bea68&topic=3943.0
_________________


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
JVDS Is a Serial Rapist

I wanted to put this post from Granny Toad, posted today 7/26/07, along side an older post of mine.  

Not for comparison, but instead for their additive and cumulative effect.  The picture painted by the information in both posts illuminates the type of individual joran van der sloot is:

_____________________________________________

GRANNYTOAD 7/26/07

Posted this morning by GrannyToad at BFN:

About the reported event of Joran having followed and cornered an American girl enroute to the restroom at C&C who'd rebuffed him (from dancing? Why - Joran says he doesn't dance), threatened her with a knife, and told her threateningly that his father is a judge - was that in April or March 2005?

I've forgotten the timeframe other than placing it shortly prior Natalee going to Aruba, and being part of established PATTERNS like dumping (likely drugged, tourist?) girls on the beach when he's done with them. I'd wondered then and still now if there was a PATTERN about finding dumped tourist girls on the beach that Charles Croes recognized being a reason to head toward the lighthouse looking for that car and Joran. I don't think that strategy was a whim on Croes' part.

Although there was no implied threat, there was also the report of a mom with two daughters at C&C of having seen Joran enter through a side door, chat up her daughters, and with a nod to the bartender the 17 year old ordered them each shots of 151. This event was I believe, April 2005, Spring Break.

Earlier 2005, maybe March, a tourist had taken offense at Joran's behavior with his wife at some fast food or donut place. This is the event in which a tourist was thrown up against the plate glass window.

PATTERNS

Joran out of control; violence. Makes it easier to consider the "aluminum baseball bat" report and I would still like to have the general identity of the informant verified.

(*I still have the date of 6Jun2005 in general recall as when the cement pool apron was poured at the vdSloot compound. I recall blog posts at RWV with blacklab (latenight) & tsunder if those cues mean anything to readers)

"Supercop" Jan vdStraaten reportedly offered Joran confinement in a mental institution for a reason. Joran's parents may still be in denial.


HAMMER 4/23/07

The Calendar of Depravity

Yes, Tamikosmom. The main perps were "suspected" of involvement in the episode which served as reason to arrest Freddie and Jamie.

Among the interesting things attached to this very specific episode: if memory serves, we'll find that the assault and filming of the unconscious 16 yr old girl occurred in APRIL, 2005. On average, about a month or so before the abduction of Natalee, which occurred on May 29 & 30, 2005. (As an aside, why would the event with Natalee not be filmed?)

Strung together with the events of Bailey Ann, which occurred during MARCH, 2005 and the depicted topless Loco Stefy whose picture was delivered w/ the date taken as MARCH 10, 2005.

An additional calendar notation is worth pondering: jvds supposedly broke up w/ his very young girl friend, at the urging of the girl's parents. This also occurred during MARCH, 2005.

For fun, we could lay these known events against a timeline, and imo it represents a ratcheting up of deviance, and most likely violence. The pimps were spiraling in an increasingly out of control manner. Why would the 16 yr old be "unconscious" -- the introduction of a drugging agent into the boys' repertoire in evidence? I would bet too there are a number of additional unreported incidents which occurred in late April and early May of 2005, incidents which have not been reported w/ firm dates. For example: the 3 girls who were willing to testify against jvds as part of JQ Kelly's affadavits: when were their "alleged" assaults to have occurred.

These kids were off the rails and were exhibiting increasingly dangerous behaviors -- which were criminal.

_________________________________________________

What is the picture you see of joran van der sloot?

What does he look like to you?

.

Hammer as always many thanks for your post!

There are several things in here that I did not know. i.e. I didn't know about the fast food incidence and that it was a tourist thrown/pushed through the window.

And the power of your post is in the consolidating, wording and organizing this info.
thank you.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:17:53 PM
Why would someone who has no dogs be taking a delivery of dog food?  Whe has ever even heard of dog food delivery? Why would someone have a dog food delivery truck "back-in" to their fenced in compound to unload the dog food?  Come on, what a load of bull.

That was no dog food truck.  What was it?  Furniture truck?  Was it there to unload a new matress to replace the blood soaked one that was dumped on the side of the road?

Was the truck there to pick up a body?  Why was this truck backed in, what were they trying to hide?  It sure wasnt to disguise the fact they were buying dog food.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 06:18:31 PM
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:20:09 PM
ok, Angie gets the

l
o
n
g
e
s
t

p
o
s
t

e
v
e
r

a
w
a
r
d
!
 :lol:
 :lol:
 :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:22:23 PM
The Sloots had a dog once and Joran killed it.  Does anyone really think they went out and got another one?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:23:42 PM
:lol:  :lol:  Blah.. sorry  :oops:  but I read what Klaas posted this morning.. and then to read what was emailed to her  :shock:  figured nobody would see it .. some dont check other threads here and.. and figured the lurkers or Reality himself would love to see what some saved. How can he deny it now hes never said a bad word about the family? YIKES!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


  ROFL  Easy.. I read that earlier.. its creepy IMO.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


  ROFL  Easy.. I read that earlier.. its creepy IMO.


It is CREEPY!  That the cat is so accurate that as soon as he curls up next to someone the hospital calls the next of kin!   :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:27:41 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)

Hey Easy,
I think someone needs to give that cat a break/vacation away from all those near dying people.  He's overworked from comforting all those people in their time of need.  But I bet he would never complain. And those people are luck to have him.

sorry wanted this post to be funny/witting but couldn't. I've lived with cats along time and they know more about us then we do.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: wreck on July 26, 2007, 06:27:43 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


Yeah, it reminds me of an episode of "The Twilight Zone" or something. What's that show on HDNet about the "Reapers"??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
:lol:  :lol:  Blah.. sorry  :oops:  but I read what Klaas posted this morning.. and then to read what was emailed to her  :shock:  figured nobody would see it .. some dont check other threads here and.. and figured the lurkers or Reality himself would love to see what some saved. How can he deny it now hes never said a bad word about the family? YIKES!


this person must be Aruban because Arubans just lie uncontrollably.  I think they lie so much that they just think its normal and this is the way the rest of the world is too. They dont understand that once you loose your credibility, its a real bitch to get back.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: IndyDan on July 26, 2007, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??


I don't remember that quote...what exactly did he say?


Posted Jun 30, 3:29 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House” | View Post
9. Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian thinks ydave is way off. The Simian is a relayer. The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones”.
The Simian just wants that everybody knows what is not said in the American Media.


for those like me who many not know the background of the Skull & Bones society....


The Order of Skull and Bones, once known as The Brotherhood of Death,[1] is a secret society based at Yale University, in New Haven, Connecticut, and is one of the oldest student secret societies in the United States. Skull and Bones has maintained its selective membership and Masonic-inspired rituals since its founding in 1832. The society's alumni organization, which owns its properties and oversees undergraduate activity, is the Russell Trust Association, named after one of Bones' founding members and is featured in the movie The Good Shepherd.


The Good Shepard is one of my favorite alltime movies.  I got really wrapped up in it, researching references in the movie.  I have this site bookmarked about the Skull and Bones Society which I found interesting:
http://tinyurl.com/35ckm


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 06:30:05 PM
Quote from: "blah"
The Sloots had a dog once and Joran killed it.  Does anyone really think they went out and got another one?


Now, you've got me confused....Joran's dog's name was Choller, iirc....I thought that dog, at least is still living....maybe I'm wrong??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 06:30:28 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
:shock:  got hubby all fixed up..  <yuck>

Lalas.. or anyone? Here is another I found in the old thread.. I am now looking for a post about renho i saw.. driving me nuts,, cant find it  :x


MRS RED   TY!!    <kiss me.. I got cooties..  :wink: >


Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
"the dice throwers rolled"
"mary rolled"

"the gamblers also took note"

the gamblers=the dice throwers=some of the the students?

The gamblers are not the Arubans, the Dutch, the bad guys the ruling class so or the children thereof so who are they?

Some people who were in the casino know where NH was brought? Call me nuts but I think there is something to this Shango business. If I were there, and the only thing I had to go on was 3 boys who are not talking I'd be looking for the stinky cave or house with the music on the dirt road.
 
 


I love your cooties Angie, we have the best cooties, don't we?  :wink:  :lol:

hmmm the stinky cave? Why did they use the word stinky?

bats in caves have urine and droppings that I understand are quite stinky, is this Fontein?   :P to rattiest man  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:31:15 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
:lol:  :lol:  Blah.. sorry  :oops:  but I read what Klaas posted this morning.. and then to read what was emailed to her  :shock:  figured nobody would see it .. some dont check other threads here and.. and figured the lurkers or Reality himself would love to see what some saved. How can he deny it now hes never said a bad word about the family? YIKES!

 :o reality is a male! who'd a guessed. Never thought about it but the posts don't seem like a male.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


Who woulda thought the Grim Reaper were a cat.  I'd be burying that sucker with the next patient to bite the dust!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:33:20 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


  ROFL  Easy.. I read that earlier.. its creepy IMO.


It is CREEPY!  That the cat is so accurate that as soon as he curls up next to someone the hospital calls the next of kin!   :shock:


 :shock:  wonder if those patients were allergic to cats..   :wink:
 In lseriousness,, I am DEATHLY allergic.. so if a pussy cat decided to park it ass next to me in my sleep.. and I didnt know? I can assure you I would not wake up.  :shock:
 BUT.. maybe the cat has a gift? I dunno..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:34:11 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "blah"
The Sloots had a dog once and Joran killed it.  Does anyone really think they went out and got another one?


Now, you've got me confused....Joran's dog's name was Choller, iirc....I thought that dog, at least is still living....maybe I'm wrong??


If Jorans dog is still living then that sucker has 9 lives!!!  :lol:

If he has a live one, its news to me but I dont know everything about this case either.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:34:18 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
:lol:  :lol:  Blah.. sorry  :oops:  but I read what Klaas posted this morning.. and then to read what was emailed to her  :shock:  figured nobody would see it .. some dont check other threads here and.. and figured the lurkers or Reality himself would love to see what some saved. How can he deny it now hes never said a bad word about the family? YIKES!


this person must be Aruban because Arubans just lie uncontrollably.  I think they lie so much that they just think its normal and this is the way the rest of the world is too. They dont understand that once you loose your credibility, its a real bitch to get back.


Hi Blah
Standing up and clapping.
This is a great post.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 06:35:07 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


  ROFL  Easy.. I read that earlier.. its creepy IMO.


It is CREEPY!  That the cat is so accurate that as soon as he curls up next to someone the hospital calls the next of kin!   :shock:


ya'll are so bad  :lol:

honest not to make everyone sad but I have a story to tell you. When we had the kittens the white one Wiggles was Rick's fave, but we had promised her for adoption. Well she went away to a friend, Rick had tears in his eyes when she left. When this friend heard he was so sick, she brought Wiggles back, she said Rick needed her.

The last 48 hours of his life, Wiggles curled up on his hospital bed and only left for food, water and the litter box. We have photos.......honestly I treasure that that little cat knew he needed her. She's also the sweetest most innocent cat, so maybe that cat in the nursing home is like Wiggles. He's just intended to be a comfort in this world !!!

I promise it's not creepy Angie unless you're running from the cat for it's not your time to go !


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 06:36:03 PM
My cat has been looking kind of funny at me lately.  I thought it just didn't like all the Castlebury's canned meat I've been feeding it.   :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:36:24 PM
any chance we could get that cat a trip to Holland and then on to Aruba?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: "blah"
any chance we could get that cat a trip to Holland and then on to Aruba?


you and Easy need spankings  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:38:13 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
My cat has been looking kind of funny at me lately.  I thought it just didn't like all the Castlebury's canned meat I've been feeding it.   :shock:


I wouldnt take any chances, sounds like that sucker has plans for you


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
:shock:  got hubby all fixed up..  <yuck>

Lalas.. or anyone? Here is another I found in the old thread.. I am now looking for a post about renho i saw.. driving me nuts,, cant find it  :x


MRS RED   TY!!    <kiss me.. I got cooties..  :wink: >


Microcephalic



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: US
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
"the dice throwers rolled"
"mary rolled"

"the gamblers also took note"

the gamblers=the dice throwers=some of the the students?

The gamblers are not the Arubans, the Dutch, the bad guys the ruling class so or the children thereof so who are they?

Some people who were in the casino know where NH was brought? Call me nuts but I think there is something to this Shango business. If I were there, and the only thing I had to go on was 3 boys who are not talking I'd be looking for the stinky cave or house with the music on the dirt road.
 
 


I love your cooties Angie, we have the best cooties, don't we?  :wink:  :lol:

hmmm the stinky cave? Why did they use the word stinky?

bats in caves have urine and droppings that I understand are quite stinky, is this Fontein?   :P to rattiest man  :lol:


 Hi Sistah..   :wink:   old post I found in the old threads..
YES we got the BEST cooties here ever!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:41:36 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
:lol:  :lol:  Blah.. sorry  :oops:  but I read what Klaas posted this morning.. and then to read what was emailed to her  :shock:  figured nobody would see it .. some dont check other threads here and.. and figured the lurkers or Reality himself would love to see what some saved. How can he deny it now hes never said a bad word about the family? YIKES!

 :o reality is a male! who'd a guessed. Never thought about it but the posts don't seem like a male.


 HI NM.. he is really a DUDE..  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: igsigs on July 26, 2007, 06:42:49 PM
"The last half year Joran is having problems all the time, a few months ago he pushed a guy through a window of the cinema."

This quote from Anita, via a Deepak PV, in Joran's book. Same incident -or different- than the fast-food story?

ETA: In book, Joran admits the cinema story is true. But, as only Joran can, blames a friend for grabbing him from behind > thus forcing Joran to toss him through the window. This unnamed *friend* then fled the scene. Believe it...or not. :arrow:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 06:43:10 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Anyone have any thoughts regarding the comment made by Simian that he was in a "skull & bones society" in Aruba??



I did several google searcges today re Shango.  One using the words: shango cult aruba

and another using the words: freemasons shango aruba, and came up with a very intersting link:

1 The Divine Twins and the Sacred Bond By Francine Bernier © Steps  from website below

Long read but very interesting...Destiny


www.joshuah.org/Steps/Articles/D_Twins2_Bernier_Oct_9_2003.pdf


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:43:32 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don't know about y'all, but I think I would freak out if Oscar the cat came to visit me!   :shock:

Is that cat psychic, or is he a serial killer?   8)


  ROFL  Easy.. I read that earlier.. its creepy IMO.


It is CREEPY!  That the cat is so accurate that as soon as he curls up next to someone the hospital calls the next of kin!   :shock:


ya'll are so bad  :lol:

honest not to make everyone sad but I have a story to tell you. When we had the kittens the white one Wiggles was Rick's fave, but we had promised her for adoption. Well she went away to a friend, Rick had tears in his eyes when she left. When this friend heard he was so sick, she brought Wiggles back, she said Rick needed her.

The last 48 hours of his life, Wiggles curled up on his hospital bed and only left for food, water and the litter box. We have photos.......honestly I treasure that that little cat knew he needed her. She's also the sweetest most innocent cat, so maybe that cat in the nursing home is like Wiggles. He's just intended to be a comfort in this world !!!

I promise it's not creepy Angie unless you're running from the cat for it's not your time to go !


 Sistah .. I recall you sending photos of Rick with Wiggles.  :(


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:44:48 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
My cat has been looking kind of funny at me lately.  I thought it just didn't like all the Castlebury's canned meat I've been feeding it.   :shock:


I wouldnt take any chances, sounds like that sucker has plans for you


Sounds like Easy's cat watches the news or goes online and found out Easy's plan for her/him.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:45:01 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "blah"
any chance we could get that cat a trip to Holland and then on to Aruba?


you and Easy need spankings  :lol:  :lol:


 They might enjoy that sistah !  :shock:    :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 06:45:40 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
"The last half year Joran is having problems all the time, a few months ago he pushed a guy through a window of the cinema."

This quote from Anita, via a Deepak PV, in Joran's book. Same incident -or different- than the fast-food story?

ETA: In book, Joran admits the cinema story is true. But, as only Joran can, blames a friend for grabbing him from behind > thus forcing Joran to toss him through the window. This unnamed *friend* then fled the scene. Believe it...or not. :arrow:


So all his friend's fault? True to form once again, EVERYTHING that goes wrong in Joran's life is someone else's fault.

read my lips S O C I O P A T H


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
My cat has been looking kind of funny at me lately.  I thought it just didn't like all the Castlebury's canned meat I've been feeding it.   :shock:


I wouldnt take any chances, sounds like that sucker has plans for you


Sounds like Easy's cat watches the news or goes online and found out Easy's plan for her/him.


I did catch her on the internet checking out kitty porn.   :shock:

She is a she, but she doesn't date anymore. lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:49:23 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
:lol:  :lol:  Blah.. sorry  :oops:  but I read what Klaas posted this morning.. and then to read what was emailed to her  :shock:  figured nobody would see it .. some dont check other threads here and.. and figured the lurkers or Reality himself would love to see what some saved. How can he deny it now hes never said a bad word about the family? YIKES!


this person must be Aruban because Arubans just lie uncontrollably.  I think they lie so much that they just think its normal and this is the way the rest of the world is too. They dont understand that once you loose your credibility, its a real bitch to get back.


Hi Blah
Standing up and clapping.
This is a great post.


 :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "blah"
any chance we could get that cat a trip to Holland and then on to Aruba?


you and Easy need spankings  :lol:  :lol:


 :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:51:07 PM
Nones,
I'm glad your Rick had Wiggles with him.  That is a really sweet story.


Angie,
I'm still loving my cooties.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:52:54 PM
Hi Destiny.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:53:04 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
My cat has been looking kind of funny at me lately.  I thought it just didn't like all the Castlebury's canned meat I've been feeding it.   :shock:


I wouldnt take any chances, sounds like that sucker has plans for you


Sounds like Easy's cat watches the news or goes online and found out Easy's plan for her/him.


he needs to drop that cat off in front of a Chinese resteraunt, pronto!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:53:15 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "blah"
any chance we could get that cat a trip to Holland and then on to Aruba?


you and Easy need spankings  :lol:  :lol:


 :D


 LOL I am not suprised Blah..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:54:45 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "blah"
any chance we could get that cat a trip to Holland and then on to Aruba?


you and Easy need spankings  :lol:  :lol:


 They might enjoy that sistah !  :shock:    :wink:


:smt047


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 26, 2007, 06:56:04 PM
When Beth and Greta showed up at Sloot gate, Paulus and Anita had to hold back one(or more) dogs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 06:56:37 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Nones,
I'm glad your Rick had Wiggles with him.  That is a really sweet story.


Angie,
I'm still loving my cooties.



 :smooch  NM! It is great to see you.. and I just LOVE to spread my cooties..  :wink:  :wink:

 Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow?  This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/Kisses.gif)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 06:56:50 PM
Here is another early post I found in new old threads.
It is a post from a PAPITO Note the "subtle" dig at Americans. (No aruban post is w/out one!)

posted June 26, 2005 at 2:25PM, 2:29PM, 2:31PM, 2:32PM, 2:37PM, 2:38PM, 2:47PM, 2:49PM and 3:01PM in various NH threads

Mr. Paul van der Sloot is da chief justice on da island (he is da boss of the judges) it's because of that, that the Chief Justice of Curacao has to come to the island to follow and choices in the case.
I agree that there is something fishy about the whole thing, but it's unfair how the world now look at Aruba.
We are very caring and loving people. In the States much worse things happen and after sometimes 10 /20 years they crack the case. Give the arubians a little bit of slack. Don't forget that we are surrounded by sea if they dumped (IF THEY DID) her body in the sea. The sharkes would have already eaten the body. And if the suspects shut up and don't talk than the case will close and they will go out free. And don't forget either that paul is a chief justice he knows the law like you guys know the songs they play on MTV. It's not easy to crack a chief justice.

A Police officer of The sunny happy Island of Aruba


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
When Beth and Greta showed up at Sloot gate, Paulus and Anita had to hold back one(or more) dogs.


for real?  How come I never knew they had a dog(s) that lived?  Do we have pictures of them?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:01:56 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
When Beth and Greta showed up at Sloot gate, Paulus and Anita had to hold back one(or more) dogs.

Hi Shell,
I remember seeing more than 1 dog at their property.
I wish the Humane Society would go in commando style (no, not w/out underware!) and rescue those poor pups.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:03:01 PM
WTF is going on with NASA?  Drunk astronauts, psycho astronauts trying to kill each other, astronauts trying to sabatoge the space station, WTF is going on?!?!?!?!?!?!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 07:03:30 PM
NM thank you !!

Blah, that winking smiley becomes you  :lol:

Angie ROFL at the big ole red lips !!!!!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 07:04:49 PM
Angie I can't stop laughing pucker up chuck? a RIOT  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
NM thank you !!

Blah, that winking smiley becomes you  :lol:

Angie ROFL at the big ole red lips !!!!!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


chicks just cannot resist that eyebrow thing  :smt047


 :smt044


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:05:56 PM
Quote from: "blah"
WTF is going on with NASA?  Drunk astronauts, psycho astronauts trying to kill each other, astronauts trying to sabatoge the space station, WTF is going on?!?!?!?!?!?!


They must be spending too much time reading at RU.  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 07:06:21 PM
So true blah, just as those wimmin astronauts  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 07:07:26 PM
I meant to post ASK  :lol:


Easy I've been too busy to read rattiest, is he puckering up for Angie? Inquiring minds want to know  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:09:37 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
I meant to post ASK  :lol:


Easy I've been too busy to read rattiest, is he puckering up for Angie? Inquiring minds want to know  :lol:  :lol:


No, he is explaining what bat shit smells like.  Who would have thunk it? lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:09:55 PM
Here is another early post I saved from rwv

http://tinyurl.com/2ryqgu

I did not know or remember sc related to k2, rumor or fact.

Lorenzo is the son of the deceased VW car dealer, seems to be very much related to drug use and possibly dealing. SGC, probably family name "Croes" (half of the island has that family name) is said to be "friends" with with JVDS. The 4th man is related to the Kalpoes.
Posted by: Checkme | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:09 PM


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 26, 2007, 07:12:01 PM
Here is one from http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=95 from What to do in Aruba---In Concert thread...the freak mentions the Devries boy. reality Posted: Oct 1 2005, 09:34 AM

This Beth is so stupid, she dont know where to go.......
I can tell her where to look for her adult daughter but she wont
listen anyway.... !
She only wants the insurance money !

Remember the case of the young american boy on the jetsky ??/

If she s not looking for nat. , why should anyone ??

SHES TRYING TO HIDE HER FAILURES AS A MOTHER, BY FIGHTING EVERYONE !

A PIECE OF......REALITY !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish people would heed the warning--- :cry:
By the way...I have always thought Reality is male. I also believe MF is male...no doubt in my mind.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Angie I can't stop laughing pucker up chuck? a RIOT  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:



 :wink:  My pain pills dont work.. but I took one of hubbys..  :shock:
No wonder huby is in lala land and sleeping alot.. lol  wish it would knock me out.   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:13:12 PM
Quote from: "blah"
WTF is going on with NASA?  Drunk astronauts, psycho astronauts trying to kill each other, astronauts trying to sabatoge the space station, WTF is going on?!?!?!?!?!?!



I dont have all of the facts and dont know what is REALLY going on inside but I will take a stab at it.  And I sure hope this doesnt offend anyone here - dont know if we have anyone in this line of work, but, I am going to guess this is just another situation of Human Resource Deprtments that dont have a friggen clue.  I could rant on and on and on about HR, and i'm sure there are alot of good, knowledgable people doing these jobs, but for the most part, they are going off the deep end in ALOT of corporations.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 07:13:45 PM
(http://www.pokernews.com/i/xsmiles/labas.gif)  gang..

Angie.. maybe you can get some one to add puckered limps to my Monkey butt gif.   for someone

The "PAPITO" post on the 26th of June..
Hell we knew by then that Paulis was not a judge and sure not the chief justice.  Now he may have been da boss of the judges in ways other than judicaly


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
NM thank you !!

Blah, that winking smiley becomes you  :lol:

Angie ROFL at the big ole red lips !!!!!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


chicks just cannot resist that eyebrow thing  :smt047


 :smt044


  ROFL  Blah  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: "Shell"
When Beth and Greta showed up at Sloot gate, Paulus and Anita had to hold back one(or more) dogs.


Thanks, Shell....didn't think my memory was getting that bad.  But still...haven't had dog food delivered in a furniture truck... :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:15:43 PM
Another early post i saved from SM FP. makes you think who came up with the hittle comment that Nat supposedly said.

http://tinyurl.com/24oyqd



Elisabeth Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 7:30 pm
on Satish’s tickle page he has a quiz , in which one of the questions is ” Wie zou ik graag willen zijn voor 1 dag? ” and his choices are “hitler”, “a little girl”, “god” , and”a homo”. His correct answer was hitler…pretty disturbing


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:17:57 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
I meant to post ASK  :lol:


Easy I've been too busy to read rattiest, is he puckering up for Angie? Inquiring minds want to know  :lol:  :lol:


No, he is explaining what bat shit smells like.  Who would have thunk it? lol



 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Geeze.. he is passing up a kiss from MOI?   8)
 To talk about bat shit?  What a man!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "nonesuche"
I meant to post ASK  :lol:


Easy I've been too busy to read rattiest, is he puckering up for Angie? Inquiring minds want to know  :lol:  :lol:


No, he is explaining what bat shit smells like.  Who would have thunk it? lol

that's b/c it takes one to know one :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 07:19:24 PM
I am sure this question has been discussed in the past, but here goes:

Did Joran go to school the following day (after CnC night ) - Monday, May 30, 2005? Paulus seemed to stutter quite a bit when asked this question which would indicate that he did not go to school.  However, there seem to be unconfirmed reports of Joran sleeping at school, bragging at school, and having marks on his face,


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:20:10 PM
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
Here is one from http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=95 from What to do in Aruba---In Concert thread...the freak mentions the Devries boy. reality Posted: Oct 1 2005, 09:34 AM

This Beth is so stupid, she dont know where to go.......
I can tell her where to look for her adult daughter but she wont
listen anyway.... !
She only wants the insurance money !

Remember the case of the young american boy on the jetsky ??/

If she s not looking for nat. , why should anyone ??

SHES TRYING TO HIDE HER FAILURES AS A MOTHER, BY FIGHTING EVERYONE !

A PIECE OF......REALITY !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish people would heed the warning--- :cry:
By the way...I have always thought Reality is male. I also believe MF is male...no doubt in my mind.


Hey Nut,
what an F ing monster
part of the well oiled machine.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
I am sure this question has been discussed in the past, but here goes:

Did Joran go to school the following day (after CnC night ) - Monday, May 30, 2005? Paulus seemed to stutter quite a bit when asked this question which would indicate that he did not go to school.  However, there seem to be unconfirmed reports of Joran sleeping at school, bragging at school, and having marks on his face,


you should probably ask Anna  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:21:54 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
(http://www.pokernews.com/i/xsmiles/labas.gif)  gang..

Angie.. maybe you can get some one to add puckered limps to my Monkey butt gif.   for someone

The "PAPITO" post on the 26th of June..
Hell we knew by then that Paulis was not a judge and sure not the chief justice.  Now he may have been da boss of the judges in ways other than judicaly


 Hi Sweety  :)

 I saw that post a few days ago when I was reading the old threads.. but not sure if I beleive it really came from the REAL PAPITO?  I been reading over the last few days and I dont even recall alot of those posters  from back then.  :(   Must be getting sometimers disease..  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:22:08 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
(http://www.pokernews.com/i/xsmiles/labas.gif)  gang..

Angie.. maybe you can get some one to add puckered limps to my Monkey butt gif.   for someone

The "PAPITO" post on the 26th of June..
Hell we knew by then that Paulis was not a judge and sure not the chief justice.  Now he may have been da boss of the judges in ways other than judicaly


Hey OF!
excellent pt.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:22:30 PM
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
I am sure this question has been discussed in the past, but here goes:

Did Joran go to school the following day (after CnC night ) - Monday, May 30, 2005? Paulus seemed to stutter quite a bit when asked this question which would indicate that he did not go to school.  However, there seem to be unconfirmed reports of Joran sleeping at school, bragging at school, and having marks on his face,


Oh, Buckshot, this same question was rehashed this afternoon...there's a split decision and the discussion heated up a little.   :(


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:23:44 PM
So can anyone confirm that the Sloots had live dog(s) that Joran didnt kill?  Its not that I dont believe the poster that said they did, im just kind of surprised I never heard of it.  Does anyone have any pictures of them or anything?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:24:10 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


Um...turns out Sharon and I will be attending the same wedding reception... :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
I am sure this question has been discussed in the past, but here goes:

Did Joran go to school the following day (after CnC night ) - Monday, May 30, 2005? Paulus seemed to stutter quite a bit when asked this question which would indicate that he did not go to school.  However, there seem to be unconfirmed reports of Joran sleeping at school, bragging at school, and having marks on his face,

BuckShot
I do not think we anything  nailed down for that Monday morning


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:25:07 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
I am sure this question has been discussed in the past, but here goes:

Did Joran go to school the following day (after CnC night ) - Monday, May 30, 2005? Paulus seemed to stutter quite a bit when asked this question which would indicate that he did not go to school.  However, there seem to be unconfirmed reports of Joran sleeping at school, bragging at school, and having marks on his face,


you should probably ask Anna  :wink:



 :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 07:26:03 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Another early post i saved from SM FP. makes you think who came up with the hittle comment that Nat supposedly said.

http://tinyurl.com/24oyqd



Elisabeth Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 7:30 pm
on Satish’s tickle page he has a quiz , in which one of the questions is ” Wie zou ik graag willen zijn voor 1 dag? ” and his choices are “hitler”, “a little girl”, “god” , and”a homo”. His correct answer was hitler…pretty disturbing


yes NM and the other choices reflect his mindset too, "God" and "a homo" and equally disturbing a little girl?

they are all sick, I have a son that age plus I had a college student here to help me with some things last weekend - his parents are nordic and besides being incredibly handsome this young man is so respectful. He just spent a month in Haiti on a medical mission and he said it was the experience of his life and how special it was to work with the ill and sick in Haiti? I don't know college students or even high school boys with crap like this on their webpages, nor do I want to know them. I also didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, Deepak and Joran are aberrations.

Was it blah who posted today about the lying island, I really do think something so dark and sinister lurks behind Oduber and friends that it's like monsters under the bed !!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 26, 2007, 07:26:23 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
Here is one from http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=95 from What to do in Aruba---In Concert thread...the freak mentions the Devries boy. reality Posted: Oct 1 2005, 09:34 AM

This Beth is so stupid, she dont know where to go.......
I can tell her where to look for her adult daughter but she wont
listen anyway.... !
She only wants the insurance money !

Remember the case of the young american boy on the jetsky ??/

If she s not looking for nat. , why should anyone ??

SHES TRYING TO HIDE HER FAILURES AS A MOTHER, BY FIGHTING EVERYONE !

A PIECE OF......REALITY !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish people would heed the warning--- :cry:
By the way...I have always thought Reality is male. I also believe MF is male...no doubt in my mind.


Hey Nut,
what an F ing monster
part of the well oiled machine.



Indeed...I also have noticed such changes in personality from Reality to reality...some other posts in other areas on the above site are very nice, normal chatter, just like he is with Robin. It is actually frightening. I do not know how she got hooked up with this person, but it is a huge mistake. We also know that Reality is the one who got Robin in touch with MIP6 too.

I know the family and everyone wants answers....but this is not the way to go.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:26:54 PM
Easy....tried to get into your blog yesterday....what's with the username/password thing?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 07:27:15 PM
Quote from: "blah"
So can anyone confirm that the Sloots had live dog(s) that Joran didnt kill?  Its not that I dont believe the poster that said they did, im just kind of surprised I never heard of it.  Does anyone have any pictures of them or anything?


If you can find the Fox show where Beth & Greta went to the Sloots I think you can see them.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:27:22 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


 be miserable in pain.. wait on hubby with one arm..?
 I took 2 weeks off work.. and wish it was a nice 2 weeks off.. to relax.. but.

What yah gonna do Mike??  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:28:02 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


Um...turns out Sharon and I will be attending the same wedding reception... :D


That is kewl!  Do you know each other, or is just a big co-inky-dink?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:29:15 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


Um...turns out Sharon and I will be attending the same wedding reception... :D


That is kewl!  Do you know each other, or is just a big co-inky-dink?


co-inky-dink....but I guess we'll sorta know each other when we post on the new format next week.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:30:12 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Easy....tried to get into your blog yesterday....what's with the username/password thing?


It's closed for renovations while I decide if I want to bother anymore. lol

I haven't had much time to spend with it, so I closed it for now.  Nothing new there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 07:30:13 PM
well I need to go caulk a tub and gather some clothes together for a goodwill trip - the lively has been hopping and it's great to see so many new faces but also old friends too !

Easy, I think SM may only be down for a few hours but you may need to benchmark that with Klaas? I have to repaint the screen porch this weekend, you wanna come help?  :lol: I'll pay you in cupcakes  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 07:30:23 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Hi Destiny.


Hi back atcha  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:30:29 PM
bbl...have to get something done...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:32:05 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


 be miserable in pain.. wait on hubby with one arm..?
 I took 2 weeks off work.. and wish it was a nice 2 weeks off.. to relax.. but.

What yah gonna do Mike??  :)


Locally they are predicting crappy weather bothe Saturday and Sunday.  I did get some new DVD's in the mail today, so I will watch those and eat. lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: nonesuche on July 26, 2007, 07:32:18 PM
Hi Destiny I saw those eyes as I was leaving so I had to come back to say hi !

must run for now......


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:33:29 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


Um...turns out Sharon and I will be attending the same wedding reception... :D


That is kewl!  Do you know each other, or is just a big co-inky-dink?


co-inky-dink....but I guess we'll sorta know each other when we post on the new format next week.


Small world ain't it?   :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:35:30 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
So can anyone confirm that the Sloots had live dog(s) that Joran didnt kill?  Its not that I dont believe the poster that said they did, im just kind of surprised I never heard of it.  Does anyone have any pictures of them or anything?


If you can find the Fox show where Beth & Greta went to the Sloots I think you can see them.


is the video your talking about the one from the link on this page?  I cannot view the video..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160298,00.html


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
well I need to go caulk a tub and gather some clothes together for a goodwill trip - the lively has been hopping and it's great to see so many new faces but also old friends too !

Easy, I think SM may only be down for a few hours but you may need to benchmark that with Klaas? I have to repaint the screen porch this weekend, you wanna come help?  :lol: I'll pay you in cupcakes  :lol:


I thought it said a couple of days.  A couple of hours ain't no big deal.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: igsigs on July 26, 2007, 07:40:22 PM
Per Lazlo >

KLPD returning to Aruba not certain yet. The KLPD members working on the NH case are waiting for approval to return to Aruba (planned return Sept.).


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 07:40:50 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
So can anyone confirm that the Sloots had live dog(s) that Joran didnt kill?  Its not that I dont believe the poster that said they did, im just kind of surprised I never heard of it.  Does anyone have any pictures of them or anything?


If you can find the Fox show where Beth & Greta went to the Sloots I think you can see them.


is the video your talking about the one from the link on this page?  I cannot view the video..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160298,00.html


Would not open for me either ... sorry


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:41:05 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Easy....tried to get into your blog yesterday....what's with the username/password thing?


It's closed for renovations while I decide if I want to bother anymore. lol

I haven't had much time to spend with it, so I closed it for now.  Nothing new there.


OK...just was surprised...thought maybe you had a hidey-hole....or had rat traps set or somethin'....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 07:42:14 PM
LAST I HEARD -

The forum won't be down more than a few hours Friday night.  Hopefully I'll have confirmation from Red and Dugga by tomorrow.

IF the forum is going to be down for more than that, I have created a temporary forum for us.  I'm not going to give you the link until I know what the deal is though.  No sense trying to moderate 2 places at once, LOLOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Destiny on July 26, 2007, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Hi Destiny I saw those eyes as I was leaving so I had to come back to say hi !

must run for now......


Hi n Bye!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
Per Lazlo >

KLPD returning to Aruba not certain yet. The KLPD members working on the NH case are waiting for approval to return to Aruba (planned return Sept.).


Kind of sounds like what JQK said a couple of weeks ago........  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
Per Lazlo >

KLPD returning to Aruba not certain yet. The KLPD members working on the NH case are waiting for approval to return to Aruba (planned return Sept.).


Thanks Igsigs


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:43:42 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
So can anyone confirm that the Sloots had live dog(s) that Joran didnt kill?  Its not that I dont believe the poster that said they did, im just kind of surprised I never heard of it.  Does anyone have any pictures of them or anything?


If you can find the Fox show where Beth & Greta went to the Sloots I think you can see them.


is the video your talking about the one from the link on this page?  I cannot view the video..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160298,00.html


Would not open for me either ... sorry


the article doesnt mention anything about dogs


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 07:45:36 PM
Blah - I believe their are still 2 dogs living at the Sloot home in Aruba.  I saw them on TV.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:45:38 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "igsigs"
Per Lazlo >

KLPD returning to Aruba not certain yet. The KLPD members working on the NH case are waiting for approval to return to Aruba (planned return Sept.).


Thanks Igsigs


klaas, doyou know anything about the sloots having dogs, ones that Jorans hasnt killed yet?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 07:46:56 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Blah - I believe their are still 2 dogs living at the Sloot home in Aruba.  I saw them on TV.


any idea what kind of dogs?  Any chance they are what beth heard on the phone?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:47:07 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


Um...turns out Sharon and I will be attending the same wedding reception... :D


That is kewl!  Do you know each other, or is just a big co-inky-dink?


co-inky-dink....but I guess we'll sorta know each other when we post on the new format next week.


 Hope you gals have a great time!  8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 26, 2007, 07:47:16 PM
I do not buy for one second that the messages back and forth were truly from Joran to Deepak.  Therefore, 2AM - daylight are completely unaccounted for in my mind.  Younger brothers could have been communicating with Nadira for all we know.

Also, it seemed as though went to great lengths to create false leads. I feel Guido arranged to have NH cremated and the body was simply hidden until that took place.  Therefore, Koen's boat, missing items from Fisherman's Huts, painted rocks, etc... are intended to throw off course the investigation.  I could be wrong, but, that is what my gut tells me.

Anyone, through this investigation, pin Paulus to give am explanation as to why money was withdrawn from his bank account in the middle of the night? Was he sleep-walking?

Also, anyone able to explain a call from VDS residence to Steve Croes (hope I am correct here) at 6:30AM? Was he serving as human alarm clock for Steve? That is pretty early to call someone.

Charels Croes seems shady to me and made sure to warn VDS house that a hurricane was heading their way the morning the H/T family arrived.

I feel the guy heading to work spotted the boys in their car, headlights off, at the raquet club early that morning. That would destroy their little email chat alibi's as to time at home(s). They were probably sitting in the car text messaging each other as well.

Thoughts...............????


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 07:47:45 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Blah - I believe their are still 2 dogs living at the Sloot home in Aruba.  I saw them on TV.


From what I remember from seeing them on tv, they were large dogs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 07:48:33 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Blah - I believe their are still 2 dogs living at the Sloot home in Aruba.  I saw them on TV.


any idea what kind of dogs?  Any chance they are what beth heard on the phone?

The ones I saw looked like either boxer or pit mix.  I don't think they would make "monkey" sounds.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:48:34 PM
Per Dugga:

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:28 am    Post subject: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING SCARED MONKEYS  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
We've been hinting at this for a few weeks now, and we'll soon be ready to unveil! Red and I wanted to make sure that all of the faithful here had plenty of notice ahead of time.

This is exciting!

Next Weekend, the Scared Monkeys sites (scaredmonkeys.com, scaredmonkeys.net, Scared Monkeys Radio, missingexploited.com and yes, even the "shoe site") are going to relaunch with new features and a brand new look.

The web sites will all be going down for maintenance the evening of Friday, July 28, 2007. They will individually return, one at a time, throughout the weekend.
 
.............

Maybe he meant Friday, the 27th.....this happened to us last year...were invited to a party but the invitation had the wrong day of the week...that's when we showed up... :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 26, 2007, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
Per Lazlo >

KLPD returning to Aruba not certain yet. The KLPD members working on the NH case are waiting for approval to return to Aruba (planned return Sept.).



Approval??....from who?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: igsigs on July 26, 2007, 07:49:16 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "igsigs"
Per Lazlo >

KLPD returning to Aruba not certain yet. The KLPD members working on the NH case are waiting for approval to return to Aruba (planned return Sept.).


Thanks Igsigs

YW. I just hope the *approval* needed is internal. We already know what Aruba's answer will be.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 07:50:18 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Per Dugga:

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:28 am    Post subject: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING SCARED MONKEYS  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
We've been hinting at this for a few weeks now, and we'll soon be ready to unveil! Red and I wanted to make sure that all of the faithful here had plenty of notice ahead of time.

This is exciting!

Next Weekend, the Scared Monkeys sites (scaredmonkeys.com, scaredmonkeys.net, Scared Monkeys Radio, missingexploited.com and yes, even the "shoe site") are going to relaunch with new features and a brand new look.

The web sites will all be going down for maintenance the evening of Friday, July 28, 2007. They will individually return, one at a time, throughout the weekend.
 
.............

Maybe he meant Friday, the 27th.....this happened to us last year...were invited to a party but the invitation had the wrong day of the week...that's when we showed up... :D


Yes, he means Friday the 27th  :lol:  According to Red the forum will be the first thing that is brought back up.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:51:01 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


 be miserable in pain.. wait on hubby with one arm..?
 I took 2 weeks off work.. and wish it was a nice 2 weeks off.. to relax.. but.

What yah gonna do Mike??  :)


Locally they are predicting crappy weather bothe Saturday and Sunday.  I did get some new DVD's in the mail today, so I will watch those and eat. lol


 kewl  :) Stay away from that chili dog sauce  :shock:
  I wish BT would adopt me and call me a sock monkey and take me traveling.. lol  :wink:  They have way more fun then I do.  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: "nonesuche"
Quote from: "NM"
Another early post i saved from SM FP. makes you think who came up with the hittle comment that Nat supposedly said.

http://tinyurl.com/24oyqd



Elisabeth Says:
June 13th, 2005 at 7:30 pm
on Satish’s tickle page he has a quiz , in which one of the questions is ” Wie zou ik graag willen zijn voor 1 dag? ” and his choices are “hitler”, “a little girl”, “god” , and”a homo”. His correct answer was hitler…pretty disturbing


yes NM and the other choices reflect his mindset too, "God" and "a homo" and equally disturbing a little girl?

they are all sick, I have a son that age plus I had a college student here to help me with some things last weekend - his parents are nordic and besides being incredibly handsome this young man is so respectful. He just spent a month in Haiti on a medical mission and he said it was the experience of his life and how special it was to work with the ill and sick in Haiti? I don't know college students or even high school boys with crap like this on their webpages, nor do I want to know them. I also didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, Deepak and Joran are aberrations.

Was it blah who posted today about the lying island, I really do think something so dark and sinister lurks behind Oduber and friends that it's like monsters under the bed !!

Hey None,
I'm glad you don't know like the pimp(le)s. I don't either. I'm sure we've had the opportunity to interact with this type and their parents but naturally gravitate away from this sort. Nothing in common, naturally repel each other. The only way Natalee could meet someone like this was to be in a concentrated area of them under the pretense she was safe, and decieved, and caught in their sights.

Yes it was blah that posted today about the lying island.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 26, 2007, 07:51:13 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Shell"
When Beth and Greta showed up at Sloot gate, Paulus and Anita had to hold back one(or more) dogs.


Thanks, Shell....didn't think my memory was getting that bad.  But still...haven't had dog food delivered in a furniture truck... :D


It will be interesting to see the archives and where the 'dog food  delivered in a furniture truck' claim came from...among other things from the past.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:51:59 PM
Shep Smith will be talking about Oscar the Cat next!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 07:53:29 PM
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
I do not buy for one second that the messages back and forth were truly from Joran to Deepak.  Therefore, 2AM - daylight are completely unaccounted for in my mind.  Younger brothers could have been communicating with Nadira for all we know.

Also, it seemed as though went to great lengths to create false leads. I feel Guido arranged to have NH cremated and the body was simply hidden until that took place.  Therefore, Koen's boat, missing items from Fisherman's Huts, painted rocks, etc... are intended to throw off course the investigation.  I could be wrong, but, that is what my gut tells me.

Anyone, through this investigation, pin Paulus to give am explanation as to why money was withdrawn from his bank account in the middle of the night? Was he sleep-walking?

Also, anyone able to explain a call from VDS residence to Steve Croes (hope I am correct here) at 6:30AM? Was he serving as human alarm clock for Steve? That is pretty early to call someone.

Charels Croes seems shady to me and made sure to warn VDS house that a hurricane was heading their way the morning the H/T family arrived.

I feel the guy heading to work spotted the boys in their car, headlights off, at the raquet club early that morning. That would destroy their little email chat alibi's as to time at home(s). They were probably sitting in the car text messaging each other as well.

Thoughts...............????


The problem with the cremation theory is we have been told time and time again that Aruba does not have a crematorium.  However, we do know that a dog/cat crematorium was sold to Aruba by company in Florida.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:53:29 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


 be miserable in pain.. wait on hubby with one arm..?
 I took 2 weeks off work.. and wish it was a nice 2 weeks off.. to relax.. but.

What yah gonna do Mike??  :)


Locally they are predicting crappy weather bothe Saturday and Sunday.  I did get some new DVD's in the mail today, so I will watch those and eat. lol


 kewl  :) Stay away from that chili dog sauce  :shock:
  I wish BT would adopt me and call me a sock monkey and take me traveling.. lol  :wink:  They have way more fun then I do.  :lol:


Has BT done another live report from SF tonight? lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Shep Smith will be talking about Oscar the Cat next!


Hope the cat sits on his desk... :P


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 07:54:58 PM
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
Here is one from http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=95 from What to do in Aruba---In Concert thread...the freak mentions the Devries boy. reality Posted: Oct 1 2005, 09:34 AM

This Beth is so stupid, she dont know where to go.......
I can tell her where to look for her adult daughter but she wont
listen anyway.... !
She only wants the insurance money !

Remember the case of the young american boy on the jetsky ??/

If she s not looking for nat. , why should anyone ??

SHES TRYING TO HIDE HER FAILURES AS A MOTHER, BY FIGHTING EVERYONE !

A PIECE OF......REALITY !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish people would heed the warning--- :cry:
By the way...I have always thought Reality is male. I also believe MF is male...no doubt in my mind.


Hey Nut,
what an F ing monster
part of the well oiled machine.



Indeed...I also have noticed such changes in personality from Reality to reality...some other posts in other areas on the above site are very nice, normal chatter, just like he is with Robin. It is actually frightening. I do not know how she got hooked up with this person, but it is a huge mistake. We also know that Reality is the one who got Robin in touch with MIP6 too.

I know the family and everyone wants answers....but this is not the way to go.

I'm glad you and other Monkeys read there too. And keep us updated on stuff like this.
It alsmost seems like a friend is at the edge of a cliff and someone is convincing them to jump and you feel you can not reason with them not to jump.  I hope Robin soon can see them for what they really are.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 07:55:16 PM
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:56:32 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
So, is this place closing down tomorrow night?  What is everyone going to do over the weekend?


 be miserable in pain.. wait on hubby with one arm..?
 I took 2 weeks off work.. and wish it was a nice 2 weeks off.. to relax.. but.

What yah gonna do Mike??  :)


Locally they are predicting crappy weather bothe Saturday and Sunday.  I did get some new DVD's in the mail today, so I will watch those and eat. lol


 kewl  :) Stay away from that chili dog sauce  :shock:
  I wish BT would adopt me and call me a sock monkey and take me traveling.. lol  :wink:  They have way more fun then I do.  :lol:


Has BT done another live report from SF tonight? lol


 Nope not yet.. last she said it will be after a bus tour this evening..  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 07:57:18 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Shep Smith will be talking about Oscar the Cat next!


Hope the cat sits on his desk... :P


 2NJ ..   ROFLMAO    :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 07:57:22 PM
LOL

Shep just said they do not believe Oscar is psychic and they do not believe he is a murderer!

Didn't I say that two hours ago?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 08:00:07 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"


Has BT done another live report from SF tonight? lol


 Nope not yet.. last she said it will be after a bus tour this evening..  :wink:

I saw here she said bus tour... but in my mind could just picture the Sock Monkey's on the OutSide and the Front or a Trolly Car headed down hill   :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
LOL

Shep just said they do not believe Oscar is psychic and they do not believe he is a murderer!

Didn't I say that two hours ago?




 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Easywriter"


Has BT done another live report from SF tonight? lol


 Nope not yet.. last she said it will be after a bus tour this evening..  :wink:

I saw here she said bus tour... but in my mind could just picture the Sock Monkey's on the OutSide and the Front or a Trolly Car headed down hill   :shock:



 :shock:

 Oldfart.. have you read any of the old posts? I saw some of yours..  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 26, 2007, 08:03:25 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
LOL

Shep just said they do not believe Oscar is psychic and they do not believe he is a murderer!

Didn't I say that two hours ago?


yup... LOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 08:06:56 PM
Angie
why would I want to read my posts... I did not and still do not know what I'm talking about  :lol:

Have you checked with you Dr. on changing the pain meds,  taking them with a glass of wine, or using cold/hot packs  on the arm too ?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 08:09:18 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


sweet, thanks OF !!!  After all this time, i'm still learning new things about this case - never knew the Sloots had dogs (that survived)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


sweet, thanks OF !!!  After all this time, i'm still learning new things about this case - never knew the Sloots had dogs (that survived)


I do love the clip You ho... you in the bushes.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 08:10:49 PM
Quote from: "blah"
So can anyone confirm that the Sloots had live dog(s) that Joran didnt kill?  Its not that I dont believe the poster that said they did, im just kind of surprised I never heard of it.  Does anyone have any pictures of them or anything?


There is a video here

http://tinyurl.com/222dd6

called June 23, 2005 Greta at VDS

shows 2 dogs inside fence at vds house.

OS


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Pita on July 26, 2007, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
Here is one from http://www.worldwidemart.com/arubaforum/index.php?showtopic=95 from What to do in Aruba---In Concert thread...the freak mentions the Devries boy. reality Posted: Oct 1 2005, 09:34 AM

This Beth is so stupid, she dont know where to go.......
I can tell her where to look for her adult daughter but she wont
listen anyway.... !
She only wants the insurance money !

Remember the case of the young american boy on the jetsky ??/

If she s not looking for nat. , why should anyone ??

SHES TRYING TO HIDE HER FAILURES AS A MOTHER, BY FIGHTING EVERYONE !

A PIECE OF......REALITY !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish people would heed the warning--- :cry:
By the way...I have always thought Reality is male. I also believe MF is male...no doubt in my mind.


Hey Nut,
what an F ing monster
part of the well oiled machine.



Indeed...I also have noticed such changes in personality from Reality to reality...some other posts in other areas on the above site are very nice, normal chatter, just like he is with Robin. It is actually frightening. I do not know how she got hooked up with this person, but it is a huge mistake. We also know that Reality is the one who got Robin in touch with MIP6 too.

I know the family and everyone wants answers....but this is not the way to go.

I'm glad you and other Monkeys read there too. And keep us updated on stuff like this.
It alsmost seems like a friend is at the edge of a cliff and someone is convincing them to jump and you feel you can not reason with them not to jump.  I hope Robin soon can see them for what they really are.


It's a disgrace that Reality is associated with this family.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 08:12:58 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


sweet, thanks OF !!!  After all this time, i'm still learning new things about this case - never knew the Sloots had dogs (that survived)


I do love the clip You ho... you in the bushes.


that is pretty funny, full grown man hiding in the bushes from little ole Beth  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


sweet, thanks OF !!!  After all this time, i'm still learning new things about this case - never knew the Sloots had dogs (that survived)


I do love the clip You ho... you in the bushes.


that is pretty funny, full grown man hiding in the bushes from little ole Beth  :lol:  :lol:


Paulus almost looks like he collapses right after Beth left, very end of the video.  Looks like he almost went down.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:15:10 PM
Has Reality ever claimed any type of link to Aruba, or does he just follow Gagirl around all over the internet?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 08:18:56 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Shep Smith will be talking about Oscar the Cat next!


Hope the cat sits on his desk... :P

 :lol:
Hey 2NJ,
have fun at the wedding and say Hi to Sharon, or Hi Sharon if you are reading.
I'll be camping in the scattered thunderstorms.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2007, 08:20:56 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


sweet, thanks OF !!!  After all this time, i'm still learning new things about this case - never knew the Sloots had dogs (that survived)


I do love the clip You ho... you in the bushes.


that is pretty funny, full grown man hiding in the bushes from little ole Beth  :lol:  :lol:


I was looking at PVDS body language during that news clip with Greta and Beth.  And I think at the time this was going on, Beth had no idea that her life was headed into a one way ticket to living hell.  And part of it due to the man behind the bushes. :evil:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Pita on July 26, 2007, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Has Reality ever claimed any type of link to Aruba, or does he just follow Gagirl around all over the internet?


As far as I know he has never claimed a link to Aruba.  And yes, they seem to follow one another around.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 26, 2007, 08:23:01 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


sweet, thanks OF !!!  After all this time, i'm still learning new things about this case - never knew the Sloots had dogs (that survived)


I do love the clip You ho... you in the bushes.


that is pretty funny, full grown man hiding in the bushes from little ole Beth  :lol:  :lol:



Okay...I remember that, but now I am confused. Beth had already met PDVS...why was she introducing herself?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 08:25:17 PM
Wonder if BT realizes she is in SF when Bonds might break the home run record today?

So far up 2 x's, no homer..

I know who cares.

OS


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:25:25 PM
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:25:43 PM
On a couple of occasions Shepherd Smith has said things that really bothered me, but most of these cable “news” people have at one time or another.  So, I decided to overlook those things, because I like his fast paced delivery, wit and the tone of his voice is easy for my old ears to hear and understand.  I get a kick out of his show 90% of the time.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:28:13 PM
Quote from: "ospainter"
Wonder if BT realizes she is in SF when Bonds might break the home run record today?

So far up 2 x's, no homer..

I know who cares.

OS


I wonder if BT and the sock monkeys are out in the water waiting for the big one????


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 26, 2007, 08:29:16 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "KarmaRoundUp"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I keep wondering what favors were called in to protect the son of the judge. I would like to know things that happened before Paulus ever got to Aruba, his history, the cases he had influence over. I personally think that would open a huge can of worms and explain why all this for a few punks.

Hi Monkeys
I agree Shell,this is no coverup just for the Kalpoe's....it's for Joran and it's for Paulus.If only the Kalpoe's were involved,this would have been solved within the first few days of Natalee disappearing.
No,it's because of Joran,his father is protecting him and we all know he will do anything to protect his son even if it means bringing down the whole once happy island of aruba.Paulus is protected by his knowledge.I also would love to see all of the cases he has worked on in the past.

I also feel it is a well-oiled machine in aruba for covering-up crimes against tourist.  What happened to Natalee also happened to 3 others that I can think of. Bud Larson, Max deVries, and another man. I'm sure the details of each one is different but they all "disappeared" and the families were treated badly/threatened, and they ale just wants to claim they ran off for insurance $$$$.
I think the ata, ahata, whatever all those tourist getter orgs iare n aruba would help out p&jvds or any other privledge aruban.
And the cops there really don't want to get involved or do whatever is the causes least problems .

Hi NM and Lalas
What connections does Anita have?
I agree NM....I think there are a lot of people on aruba scared,rich and poor.They have all seem what happens when you try and rock the boat,try to come forward with some truths.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 08:29:33 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]



WOWOWOW!!!

If he doesnt show up, let me know, i'll be right over !!!!!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 08:32:17 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "ospainter"
Wonder if BT realizes she is in SF when Bonds might break the home run record today?

So far up 2 x's, no homer..

I know who cares.

OS


I wonder if BT and the sock monkeys are out in the water waiting for the big one????


Now that would be a picture..

Probably not going to do it tonight. been up 3x so far. One guy is out in the water after just having by-pass, man some dedicated fans.

OS


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:33:10 PM
One of those emoticons reminds me of a story..... I won't tell! lol lol lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:33:28 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]



WOWOWOW!!!

If he doesnt show up, let me know, i'll be right over !!!!!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


 ROFL  Blah   :wink:  :wink:  :wink:   You want my cooties Blah?   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:34:27 PM
Quote from: "ospainter"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "ospainter"
Wonder if BT realizes she is in SF when Bonds might break the home run record today?

So far up 2 x's, no homer..

I know who cares.

OS


I wonder if BT and the sock monkeys are out in the water waiting for the big one????


Now that would be a picture..

Probably not going to do it tonight. been up 3x so far. One guy is out in the water after just having by-pass, man some dedicated fans.

OS


Dedication is a nice word for it. lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Why would someone who has no dogs be taking a delivery of dog food?  Whe has ever even heard of dog food delivery? Why would someone have a dog food delivery truck "back-in" to their fenced in compound to unload the dog food?  Come on, what a load of bull.

That was no dog food truck.  What was it?  Furniture truck?  Was it there to unload a new matress to replace the blood soaked one that was dumped on the side of the road?

BINGO, IMO
Was the truck there to pick up a body?  Why was this truck backed in, what were they trying to hide?  It sure wasnt to disguise the fact they were buying dog food.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 08:36:36 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "ospainter"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "ospainter"
Wonder if BT realizes she is in SF when Bonds might break the home run record today?

So far up 2 x's, no homer..

I know who cares.

OS


I wonder if BT and the sock monkeys are out in the water waiting for the big one????


Now that would be a picture..

Probably not going to do it tonight. been up 3x so far. One guy is out in the water after just having by-pass, man some dedicated fans.

OS


Dedication is a nice word for it. lol


they think they are going to make some money...Oh well, to each his own. I guess.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 08:36:39 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]



WOWOWOW!!!

If he doesnt show up, let me know, i'll be right over !!!!!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


 ROFL  Blah   :wink:  :wink:  :wink:   You want my cooties Blah?   :lol:


only if they come with that whip !!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 08:37:15 PM
Blah,
pvds does go down at the end!

Hi Pita, Karma and OS.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:37:20 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
One of those emoticons reminds me of a story..... I won't tell! lol lol lol

 Come on Mike.. do tell.   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:38:16 PM
BRB, furniture truck just deliverd a pizza.....   :P


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: vms on July 26, 2007, 08:38:45 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]


Well, I had to log in for this one, Angie.
Don't be so inhibited, lol.
:shock:  :lol:  :shock:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:39:00 PM
Quote from: "blah"

only if they come with that whip !!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:



 :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 08:40:01 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Blah,
pvds does go down at the end!

Hi Pita, Karma and OS.


Hi NM,

and everyone

OS


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 08:40:30 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
BRB, furniture truck just deliverd a pizza.....   :P


 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:41:04 PM
Someone should never have brought up all this spanking business!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 08:41:28 PM
Good evening Monkeys!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 08:42:14 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
BRB, furniture truck just deliverd a pizza.....   :P


 :lol:  :lol:


 :lol:  :wink:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 26, 2007, 08:42:17 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "blah"
Why would someone who has no dogs be taking a delivery of dog food?  Whe has ever even heard of dog food delivery? Why would someone have a dog food delivery truck "back-in" to their fenced in compound to unload the dog food?  Come on, what a load of bull.

That was no dog food truck.  What was it?  Furniture truck?  Was it there to unload a new matress to replace the blood soaked one that was dumped on the side of the road?

BINGO, IMO
Was the truck there to pick up a body?  Why was this truck backed in, what were they trying to hide?  It sure wasnt to disguise the fact they were buying dog food.



OR, maybe picking up a big chest type freezer that still had a body in it or had stored one for a short time........what was the date when the truck as there?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: blah on July 26, 2007, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
BRB, furniture truck just deliverd a pizza.....   :P


quick, ask them if they'd mind getting rid of a blood soaked matress for you


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:46:06 PM
Quote from: "vms"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]


Well, I had to log in for this one, Angie.
Don't be so inhibited, lol.
:shock:  :lol:  :shock:  :lol:


 :lol:  :lol:  I made a boo boo.. it was ELAINE at RU who laughed at Chucks post,, that I play hard to get.. ROFL.   I think its all funny!

EASY?   :shock:  ummmm enjoy that pizza..   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:48:16 PM
Hi Shadow,
  Nice to see yah and the others that been posting too the last few days!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: vms on July 26, 2007, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "vms"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]


Well, I had to log in for this one, Angie.
Don't be so inhibited, lol.
:shock:  :lol:  :shock:  :lol:


 :lol:  :lol:  I made a boo boo.. it was ELAINE at RU who laughed at Chucks post,, that I play hard to get.. ROFL.   I think its all funny!

EASY?   :shock:  ummmm enjoy that pizza..   :wink:

My husband thinks I've lost my mind because I'm still laughing.  :lol:

What kind of pain meds were those?  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:53:06 PM
ROFL

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:51 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote: Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you. I think you are hot.. come here baby.. Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..



Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome



Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli? Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away..
 

Why do I have the compelling urge to take a shower? I guess they don't think I'm gay anymore.  


 Chuck,, Need help in the shower?  :wink:  :wink:  Whats the matter? Afraid of some girl cooties?  I already know what you look like nekkid..  :roll:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: oldfart on July 26, 2007, 08:53:13 PM
Angie

Just in case you want a lttle extra  Bait for  ChuckieRat..
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/saveit/3df25cde.gif)

 :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:53:22 PM
I don’t want to sound like I am pushing other blogs while here, but someone recently introduced me to ICB and thus far I have found it to be fascinating.  Whoever put it together really pulled together some talented writers and I have enjoyed reading them over the past few days.  Tonight, one of the contributors will be on Abram’s show.

Just passing that along to those that might be interested.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 08:54:06 PM
San: You around? Juist finished reading and saw your response. Do you know anything more about John Charles Croes? What si Ernesto into or does he have a legitimate front so to speak?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 08:55:29 PM
[quote="vms My husband thinks I've lost my mind because I'm still laughing.  :lol:

What kind of pain meds were those?  :lol:[/quote]

  Tylenol with codeine..  :oops:  :oops:  
maybe I need to go lay down..  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 08:59:43 PM
Abrams says kill 'em!  Kill 'em both!

Talking about the two monsters that wiped out the CT family.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 09:02:22 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
Angie

Just in case you want a lttle extra  Bait for  ChuckieRat..
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/saveit/3df25cde.gif)

 :roll:



 :lol:

 TY  and night.. I need to get the hell off of here I think.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 09:03:29 PM
Klaas, are you out there?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:04:41 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
San: You around? Juist finished reading and saw your response. Do you know anything more about John Charles Croes? What si Ernesto into or does he have a legitimate front so to speak?


I'm not San but what info do you want on John Charles Croes?

Ernesto Arambatzis works (or worked) in the South Miami area nighclub scene.  

Alot of info on Ernesto all in one place ere:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-11949.html


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
chuck is a wack job


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:04:59 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: "ospainter"
Wonder if BT realizes she is in SF when Bonds might break the home run record today?

So far up 2 x's, no homer..

I know who cares.

OS


I do because I don't want him to break it... he as we all know uses steroids and there is NO WAY that HANK Aaron did... and that was where we used to meet at FCS. back in the day... at Hank Aaron...

I would walk bonds every single time if I were a manager in baseball...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Shep Smith will be talking about Oscar the Cat next!


Hope the cat sits on his desk... :P

 :lol:
Hey 2NJ,
have fun at the wedding and say Hi to Sharon, or Hi Sharon if you are reading.
I'll be camping in the scattered thunderstorms.


I have no doubt we will have fun and it's amazing that someone I have postd with...went to the same college at different times...is someone who is linked to someone we know well.  Yes, it is a small world.  Yes, and the weather will be iffy...but Sharon also has taken possession of fault with that...iirc... :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 26, 2007, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
So can anyone confirm that the Sloots had live dog(s) that Joran didnt kill?  Its not that I dont believe the poster that said they did, im just kind of surprised I never heard of it.  Does anyone have any pictures of them or anything?


If you can find the Fox show where Beth & Greta went to the Sloots I think you can see them.


is the video your talking about the one from the link on this page?  I cannot view the video..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160298,00.html

Hi Blah
I can't seem to view Fox videos lately but Greta does have some pics from when she was in aruba.....look for the pics where her and Beth showed up at the vds home,where Paulus is trying to hide in the bushes(like the snake he is)until Beth yoo hoo's him out of the bushes.There were at least 2 dogs there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 09:09:33 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
San: You around? Juist finished reading and saw your response. Do you know anything more about John Charles Croes? What si Ernesto into or does he have a legitimate front so to speak?


I'm not San but what info do you want on John Charles Croes?

Ernesto Arambatzis works (or worked) in the South Miami area nighclub scene.  

Alot of info on Ernesto all in one place ere:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-11949.html


Evening Klass! Hope the furniture truck didn't bring more than a pizza.  :) Thanks for the response and link. Didn't mean to sound exclusive asking for San I was just responding to a post she made earlier to me. As far as JCC, I just found it curious that he was brought up in the PV's is from Miami but little is known, at least as far as I know. Just thinking out loud as usual. BTW You Rock!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:09:51 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don’t want to sound like I am pushing other blogs while here, but someone recently introduced me to ICB and thus far I have found it to be fascinating.  Whoever put it together really pulled together some talented writers and I have enjoyed reading them over the past few days.  Tonight, one of the contributors will be on Abram’s show.

Just passing that along to those that might be interested.


I do like that blog... it is interesting.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:11:39 PM
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
San: You around? Juist finished reading and saw your response. Do you know anything more about John Charles Croes? What si Ernesto into or does he have a legitimate front so to speak?


I'm not San but what info do you want on John Charles Croes?

Ernesto Arambatzis works (or worked) in the South Miami area nighclub scene.  

Alot of info on Ernesto all in one place ere:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-11949.html


Evening Klass! Hope the furniture truck didn't bring more than a pizza.  :) Thanks for the response and link. Didn't mean to sound exclusive asking for San I was just responding to a post she made earlier to me. As far as JCC, I just found it curious that he was brought up in the PV's is from Miami but little is known, at least as far as I know. Just thinking out loud as usual. BTW You Rock!


John Charles Croes is originally from Aruba and is now in Miami.  He is a friend of Deepak Kalpoes.  He was brought up because on the night Natalee disappeared, Deepak was online chatting with John Charles Croes.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 09:12:01 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


I'm looking for a link to some old Front Page posts.  Preferably June 26th and/or June 27 2005.  Do you have something like that available?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 09:14:01 PM
Hi Monkeys.  Gee, John Charles Croes is another candidate for Shango since he's in FL, huh?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 26, 2007, 09:15:18 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


I'm looking for a link to some old Front Page posts.  Preferably June 26th and/or June 27 2005.  Do you have something like that available?


Are we getting ready to tango? :wink:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 09:15:51 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
San: You around? Juist finished reading and saw your response. Do you know anything more about John Charles Croes? What si Ernesto into or does he have a legitimate front so to speak?


I'm not San but what info do you want on John Charles Croes?

Ernesto Arambatzis works (or worked) in the South Miami area nighclub scene.  

Alot of info on Ernesto all in one place ere:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-11949.html


Evening Klass! Hope the furniture truck didn't bring more than a pizza.  :) Thanks for the response and link. Didn't mean to sound exclusive asking for San I was just responding to a post she made earlier to me. As far as JCC, I just found it curious that he was brought up in the PV's is from Miami but little is known, at least as far as I know. Just thinking out loud as usual. BTW You Rock!


John Charles Croes is originally from Aruba and is now in Miami.  He is a friend of Deepak Kalpoes.  He was brought up because on the night Natalee disappeared, Deepak was online chatting with John Charles Croes.


Thanks Klass


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 09:16:55 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "ospainter"
Wonder if BT realizes she is in SF when Bonds might break the home run record today?

So far up 2 x's, no homer..

I know who cares.

OS


I do because I don't want him to break it... he as we all know uses steroids and there is NO WAY that HANK Aaron did... and that was where we used to meet at FCS. back in the day... at Hank Aaron...

I would walk bonds every single time if I were a manager in baseball...


Well he didn't do it today/tonight.

Caught my attention because BT is out there. I don't watch Baseball.

OS


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 09:17:15 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
BRB, furniture truck just deliverd a pizza.....   :P

 :lol:
hehehehe, this is the funnist post of the night!
Don't forget to give em any old blood soaked mattress you have for a tip!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:17:20 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


I'm looking for a link to some old Front Page posts.  Preferably June 26th and/or June 27 2005.  Do you have something like that available?

Yes but I need more information.  What posts are you looking for.  I need the posters name or the subject or something.

Edited to add:  There are many comments on many front page posts so hard to give you a "link".  I need more to go on.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 09:17:51 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Hi Monkeys.  Gee, John Charles Croes is another candidate for Shango since he's in FL, huh?


The thought has crossed my mind.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:19:17 PM
I am addicted to baseball....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


I'm looking for a link to some old Front Page posts.  Preferably June 26th and/or June 27 2005.  Do you have something like that available?


I'd go try to get a link but I know that I'd get it to you a half hour after Klaas does...it's not easy if you haven't saved them by date...imo..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
BRB, furniture truck just deliverd a pizza.....   :P


quick, ask them if they'd mind getting rid of a blood soaked matress for you

ew! I just posted that too (before I got your post!)
Great minds think alike!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I am addicted to baseball....


i love baseball

 8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: vms on July 26, 2007, 09:20:44 PM
John Charles Croes Tickle Link (http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=JsT9lAWw6vO215bA)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 09:20:55 PM
I've got my dancin' shoes on.  Where's Lala's?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 09:21:16 PM
Quote from: "robots"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I am addicted to baseball....


i love baseball

 8)


me 2


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 09:21:16 PM
What is this world coming to?  Recent headlines about soulless predators are make me physically ill!  Can something be done about this sort of thing?

That Connecticut family looks like such a nice family and out of no where two sick bastards invade their lives, rob them and leave behind bodies.  

Does our government need to finance a trial and 20 years on death row for these two slime buckets?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 09:22:51 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "robots"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I am addicted to baseball....


i love baseball

 8)


me 2


we could have a robotic baseball team

i play baseball


i like to watch... baseball buts its more fun to play  8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 09:23:14 PM
Quote from: "vms"
John Charles Croes Tickle Link (http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=JsT9lAWw6vO215bA)


thanks vms!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:24:00 PM
I have been debating posting this... but I am going to ask for support/prayers for a friend's daughter...

she was brutally raped, and beaten in Atlanta... and the rape was so tramuatizing that she has had what they are terming a "psychotic break"... daughter can't tell us what happened or anything... and she refused a rape kit because she was afraid of the exam... I think it's possible that she knew the attacker and is afraid of him...

regardless, she needs our prayers...

thanks.

it was hard for me to post this, but I also want to say that I know y'all of everyone will understand...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 09:24:15 PM
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


I'm looking for a link to some old Front Page posts.  Preferably June 26th and/or June 27 2005.  Do you have something like that available?


Are we getting ready to tango? :wink:  :roll:


If you want to, I'm ready.  Where's Lala's?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


I'm looking for a link to some old Front Page posts.  Preferably June 26th and/or June 27 2005.  Do you have something like that available?

Yes but I need more information.  What posts are you looking for.  I need the posters name or the subject or something.

Edited to add:  There are many comments on many front page posts so hard to give you a "link".  I need more to go on.



Try these links:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-evening-updates/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/sunday-morning-update/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/natalee-holloway-breaking-aruba-news-croes-released/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/mountain-brook-community-turns-out-for-natalee-holloway/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/riehl-world-has-interesting-news/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/natalee-holloway-evening-update/


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: shadow on July 26, 2007, 09:26:06 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I have been debating posting this... but I am going to ask for support/prayers for a friend's daughter...

she was brutally raped, and beaten in Atlanta... and the rape was so tramuatizing that she has had what they are terming a "psychotic break"... daughter can't tell us what happened or anything... and she refused a rape kit because she was afraid of the exam... I think it's possible that she knew the attacker and is afraid of him...

regardless, she needs our prayers...

thanks.

it was hard for me to post this, but I also want to say that I know y'all of everyone will understand...


I will be praying for her. That is horrible.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: NM on July 26, 2007, 09:26:29 PM
Hi JuJu,

the furniture truck photo is 1st discussed on SM july 31. Seems like it comes from Ian's site.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=47079&highlight=furniture#47079
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=49754&highlight=furniture#49754
Robert J wrote: Re question on date for FURNITURE TRUCK at VDS house..
Don't know date; ask IAN ian@ianschwartz.com



Don't know if these links still work.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 26, 2007, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Klaas, are you out there?


Yes


I'm looking for a link to some old Front Page posts.  Preferably June 26th and/or June 27 2005.  Do you have something like that available?

Yes but I need more information.  What posts are you looking for.  I need the posters name or the subject or something.

Edited to add:  There are many comments on many front page posts so hard to give you a "link".  I need more to go on.



Try these links:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-evening-updates/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/sunday-morning-update/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/natalee-holloway-breaking-aruba-news-croes-released/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/mountain-brook-community-turns-out-for-natalee-holloway/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/riehl-world-has-interesting-news/

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/natalee-holloway-evening-update/


Awesome.  You're like Santa Claus!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: IndyDan on July 26, 2007, 09:28:19 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
ROFLMAO  FROM  RU     :lol:  :lol:

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote:
Where is that Sexy Charlierat anyhow? This is for him.. Pucker up Chuck!

And here I thought she was playing hard to get.  


Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you.  I think you are hot.. come here baby..  Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/condom.gif)

 Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/Angiex911dsptchr/1400178831_m.gif)

 Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?  
 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli?  Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away.. :shock: [/b]


OMG I've thought for a long time just held back that Chuck-the-Rat looks a whole lot like that guy on Perverted Justice, the one that showed up and got naked in the garage, then got caught the next day at McDonalds again.
Wipe off the silly grin in the Rat-Chuck pic and wipe off the Deer in the headlights look in the Perverted Justice flic.  They are a dead ringer.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 09:28:40 PM
Quote from: "robots"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "robots"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I am addicted to baseball....


i love baseball

 8)


me 2


we could have a robotic baseball team

i play baseball


i like to watch... baseball buts its more fun to play  8)


Have 3 players here...one has a bad hip, now...and it's not me...I've watched a lot of games live and on TV & washed many uniforms (why do they choose white pants?)....some that don't like the game, don't get it.

Sorry...I won't add to the OT anymore...just couldn't resist.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:29:13 PM
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 09:29:44 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don’t want to sound like I am pushing other blogs while here, but someone recently introduced me to ICB and thus far I have found it to be fascinating.  Whoever put it together really pulled together some talented writers and I have enjoyed reading them over the past few days.  Tonight, one of the contributors will be on Abram’s show.

Just passing that along to those that might be interested.


I do like that blog... it is interesting.

I'm behind, but could one of you provide the link or maybe just the name?  Either way would be great.  Thanks.  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:30:43 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??

Mrs. Red - how old is the girl?  I feel so bad for her.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 09:32:34 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??


I'm sorry, too, and wlll keep them all in my prayers....you are so right...how does it happen and when will it all end?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 26, 2007, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "blah"
Quote from: "oldfart"
hey blah  found it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RIz4ae75o


sweet, thanks OF !!!  After all this time, i'm still learning new things about this case - never knew the Sloots had dogs (that survived)


I do love the clip You ho... you in the bushes.


that is pretty funny, full grown man hiding in the bushes from little ole Beth  :lol:  :lol:



Okay...I remember that, but now I am confused. Beth had already met PDVS...why was she introducing herself?


Beth Twitty claims that she remained in a vehicle on the morning of May 31, 2005 when her, Jug and others went to the VDS residence.  I believe Beth only person encourter was with Joran van der Sloot that morning.

Janet


Beth Twitty
'The Abrams Report'
February 24, 2006


TWITTY: ... Dan, that night I remained seated in the back seat of a car the entire time. I was so stunned that I couldn't even get out of the car to approach Joran. I mean he approached me in an aggressive matter. I didn't even approach Joran.  I was seated in the back seat of a car, and the door was ajar and Joran is the one who approached me in the car and yes, I did in a firm manner ask him what did he do with Natalee and you know he just kept hitting his chest and throwing his head back and was just so arrogant and so condescending to me and you know, Dan, I was so stunned that I couldn't even hardly come up with anything besides, you know, what did you do with Natalee? And it's just—what he's saying is just simply untrue and I hope that all of your viewers see straight through this.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:34:45 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??

Mrs. Red - how old is the girl?  I feel so bad for her.


she is early 20's... going through a rough divorce... and I suspect the ex ....but I have no clear proof.  I am too far away to be there for her, her mom...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 09:36:28 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??


We must add her to the prayer thread.  She needs our prayers.  This just makes me sick.  I have had about all this horror being done to women I can stand.  I wish someone could explain to me why this seems to have become so common?  Have we regressed to such a barbaric state that there is no hope any longer?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 09:38:26 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??


We must add her to the prayer thread.  She needs our prayers.  This just makes me sick.  I have had about all this horror being done to women I can stand.  I wish someone could explain to me why this seems to have become so common?  Have we regressed to such a barbaric state that there is no hope any longer?


I blame it on the judges.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: JuJu on July 26, 2007, 09:40:16 PM
I am sorry to hear about that Mrs. Red.......I hope they catch the POS that did it.....so many sick people in this world.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 09:40:18 PM
Mrs. Red ~ I am so sorry and sick to my stomach about your friend's daughter.  They and you are in my thoughts and prayers.  How truly devastating.   :cry:  :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:40:20 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??


We must add her to the prayer thread.  She needs our prayers.  This just makes me sick.  I have had about all this horror being done to women I can stand.  I wish someone could explain to me why this seems to have become so common?  Have we regressed to such a barbaric state that there is no hope any longer?


I don't know... and what makes me even madder is all the assbites that have the screwed up thinking that somehow women deserve this.... and there are those that will say that...but what the hell??  

OK, I apologize that I am going to be off topic with this  - so y'all can talk around me... I am kind of a mess... this girl is like my goddaughter... and I can't do anything to help her.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tiger on July 26, 2007, 09:40:56 PM
Mrs.Red,She is in my prayers.I hope she can recover.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??

Mrs. Red - how old is the girl?  I feel so bad for her.


she is early 20's... going through a rough divorce... and I suspect the ex ....but I have no clear proof.  I am too far away to be there for her, her mom...


im sorry to hear this Mrs. Red

more than likely someone she knows

if she has had a psychotic break, they need to keep her eye on her

cause when it happens,,,, people need to be THERE...to protect here from herself


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:42:55 PM
thanks to you all... for your care and concern.  please don't feel like y'all can't talk, though...

for once I don't want to be stoic about it... I want to kick somebody's butt!

and I know that you're prayers will help...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: justinsmama on July 26, 2007, 09:44:33 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I have been debating posting this... but I am going to ask for support/prayers for a friend's daughter...

she was brutally raped, and beaten in Atlanta... and the rape was so tramuatizing that she has had what they are terming a "psychotic break"... daughter can't tell us what happened or anything... and she refused a rape kit because she was afraid of the exam... I think it's possible that she knew the attacker and is afraid of him...

regardless, she needs our prayers...

thanks.

it was hard for me to post this, but I also want to say that I know y'all of everyone will understand...


Oh dear God, I am so sorry, Mrs. Red. Prayers for this young woman and her loved ones.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
thanks Shawdow... I just got off the phone with her mom...

I feel very helpless and mad... how does this happen??


We must add her to the prayer thread.  She needs our prayers.  This just makes me sick.  I have had about all this horror being done to women I can stand.  I wish someone could explain to me why this seems to have become so common?  Have we regressed to such a barbaric state that there is no hope any longer?


I don't know... and what makes me even madder is all the assbites that have the screwed up thinking that somehow women deserve this.... and there are those that will say that...but what the hell??  

OK, I apologize that I am going to be off topic with this  - so y'all can talk around me... I am kind of a mess... this girl is like my goddaughter... and I can't do anything to help her.


  Signed back on to say how sorry I am.  :(
 I also apologize for screwing around earlier.
She is in my prayers Mrs Red.  signing back off.. have a good night all and hugs to Nemo and CP and Chuck   :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: IndyDan on July 26, 2007, 09:47:13 PM
:smt006


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:47:50 PM
Ang... don't be sorry for screwing around earlier... I think BLAH liked it... apparently chuck did too... :wink:

just pray for my friend, her daughter and family... she has small children that need her too....

I can't even begin to post how flipping evil I feel right now... but thank you all for letting me work out my emotions with you...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 09:48:24 PM
i have had it ROTTEN JUDGES  8)


it is time for www.ROTTENJUDGES.info


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ldstlou on July 26, 2007, 09:50:12 PM
Quote from: "justinsmama"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I have been debating posting this... but I am going to ask for support/prayers for a friend's daughter...

she was brutally raped, and beaten in Atlanta... and the rape was so tramuatizing that she has had what they are terming a "psychotic break"... daughter can't tell us what happened or anything... and she refused a rape kit because she was afraid of the exam... I think it's possible that she knew the attacker and is afraid of him...

regardless, she needs our prayers...

thanks.

it was hard for me to post this, but I also want to say that I know y'all of everyone will understand...


Oh dear God, I am so sorry, Mrs. Red. Prayers for this young woman and her loved ones.


Prayers from our home too.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 09:50:39 PM
O/T question...does anyone know who started The Foundation for the Blind and does anyone know whose name it was created in?  Don't cheat and google.  Just curious how many on here actually know the answer without looking it up.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:51:28 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
O/T question...does anyone know who started The Foundation for the Blind and does anyone know whose name it was created in?  Don't cheat and google.  Just curious how many on here actually know the answer without looking it up.


Helen Keller?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
O/T question...does anyone know who started The Foundation for the Blind and does anyone know whose name it was created in?  Don't cheat and google.  Just curious how many on here actually know the answer without looking it up.


Keller ??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:52:09 PM
Monkeys.. please go back to talking... I just needed to express some anger and shock and you allowed me to do that, and I am grateful.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 09:52:59 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Monkeys.. please go back to talking... I just needed to express some anger and shock and you allowed me to do that, and I am grateful.




 8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 09:53:23 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Ang... don't be sorry for screwing around earlier... I think BLAH liked it... apparently chuck did too... :wink:

just pray for my friend, her daughter and family... she has small children that need her too....

I can't even begin to post how flipping evil I feel right now... but thank you all for letting me work out my emotions with you...


  HUGS to you Mrs Red.

 Chuck.. sorry I didnt go to bed yet ass.. and I have pain meds of my own that dont help me ok? Prescribed by my dr.. tryed one of my hubbys..worked better. What a crime huh?  :roll:  Have you never experienced any hardships or pain in your life Chuck.. ? No health problems? If not, I admire the hell out of you. You wished me to go to bed?  Afraid of cooties?  Who the hell is WABBI too?  Guess your nightmare is back.  :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 09:56:37 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Monkeys.. please go back to talking... I just needed to express some anger and shock and you allowed me to do that, and I am grateful.


 You are in my prayers and if you need to vent, email me.  :wink:
 We are extended family here  IMO.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 09:57:05 PM
ANG.. I think Chuck has a crush.... like a damn second grader pulling pigtails...  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 26, 2007, 09:57:54 PM
I too would guess Helen Keller? I know when my Aunt dies she donated enough money for one seeing eye dog for the chapter in NJ which was where she was from $50,000.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 09:58:30 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/threadlock.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: bleachedblack on July 26, 2007, 09:58:34 PM
Sorry, died , past tense. :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: justinsmama on July 26, 2007, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
O/T question...does anyone know who started The Foundation for the Blind and does anyone know whose name it was created in?  Don't cheat and google.  Just curious how many on here actually know the answer without looking it up.


Louis Braille?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 10:00:04 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Ang... don't be sorry for screwing around earlier... I think BLAH liked it... apparently chuck did too... :wink:

just pray for my friend, her daughter and family... she has small children that need her too....

I can't even begin to post how flipping evil I feel right now... but thank you all for letting me work out my emotions with you...


  HUGS to you Mrs Red.

 Chuck.. sorry I didnt go to bed yet ass.. and I have pain meds of my own that dont help me ok? Prescribed by my dr.. tryed one of my hubbys..worked better. What a crime huh?  :roll:  Have you never experienced any hardships or pain in your life Chuck.. ? No health problems? If not, I admire the hell out of you. You wished me to go to bed?  Afraid of cooties?  Who the hell is WABBI too?  Guess your nightmare is back.  :twisted:


Chuck experiences pain every morning when he has to shave that face!  :P


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:00:15 PM
Is Lala's going to tell us?

Ang.. thanks - yes we have become a crazy big extended family, haven't we??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 10:01:44 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Ang... don't be sorry for screwing around earlier... I think BLAH liked it... apparently chuck did too... :wink:

just pray for my friend, her daughter and family... she has small children that need her too....

I can't even begin to post how flipping evil I feel right now... but thank you all for letting me work out my emotions with you...


  HUGS to you Mrs Red.

 Chuck.. sorry I didnt go to bed yet ass.. and I have pain meds of my own that dont help me ok? Prescribed by my dr.. tryed one of my hubbys..worked better. What a crime huh?  :roll:  Have you never experienced any hardships or pain in your life Chuck.. ? No health problems? If not, I admire the hell out of you. You wished me to go to bed?  Afraid of cooties?  Who the hell is WABBI too?  Guess your nightmare is back.  :twisted:


Chuck experiences pain every morning when he has to shave that face!  :P





 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:01:56 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I have been debating posting this... but I am going to ask for support/prayers for a friend's daughter...

she was brutally raped, and beaten in Atlanta... and the rape was so tramuatizing that she has had what they are terming a "psychotic break"... daughter can't tell us what happened or anything... and she refused a rape kit because she was afraid of the exam... I think it's possible that she knew the attacker and is afraid of him...

regardless, she needs our prayers...

thanks.

it was hard for me to post this, but I also want to say that I know y'all of everyone will understand...


This is probably too late.  Most cities have one hospital designated with a Rape Crisis Center within the Emergency Room.  It is usually run by forensic nurses.  They are very highly trained and very skilled in supporting the victim.  The forensics is important.  Perhaps she would be more comfortable if she was taken to a hospital with one of these centers. I know nothing about Atlanta. Prayers.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:03:06 PM
Quote from: mrs. red
ANG.. I think Chuck has a crush.... like a damn second grader pulling pigtails...  :roll:[/quote

  ROFL   :lol:  or bra straps   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 10:04:16 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I have been debating posting this... but I am going to ask for support/prayers for a friend's daughter...

she was brutally raped, and beaten in Atlanta... and the rape was so tramuatizing that she has had what they are terming a "psychotic break"... daughter can't tell us what happened or anything... and she refused a rape kit because she was afraid of the exam... I think it's possible that she knew the attacker and is afraid of him...

regardless, she needs our prayers...

thanks.

it was hard for me to post this, but I also want to say that I know y'all of everyone will understand...


This is probably too late.  Most cities have one hospital designated with a Rape Crisis Center within the Emergency Room.  It is usually run by forensic nurses.  They are very highly trained and very skilled in supporting the victim.  The forensics is important.  Perhaps she would be more comfortable if she was taken to a hospital with one of these centers. I know nothing about Atlanta. Prayers.


very good idea


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: wreck on July 26, 2007, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: Angiex911dsptchr
Quote from: "mrs. red"
ANG.. I think Chuck has a crush.... like a damn second grader pulling pigtails...  :roll:[/quote

  ROFL   :lol:  or bra straps   :wink:

a bra in 2nd grade?!?!?! :D  :shock:  :wink:  :lol:  :o


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:05:21 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Is Lala's going to tell us?

Ang.. thanks - yes we have become a crazy big extended family, haven't we??


 Yes we have  :wink:

 Easy   :lol:  :lol:
 I am trying to behave...  :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 10:05:55 PM
I guess they found the girl in the car?  I heard earlier that a car had been found.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 10:06:27 PM
my husband says some guy named Miguel????


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:06:37 PM
Quote from: wreck
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
ANG.. I think Chuck has a crush.... like a damn second grader pulling pigtails...  :roll:[/quote

  ROFL   :lol:  or bra straps   :wink:

a bra in 2nd grade?!?!?! :D  :shock:  :wink:  :lol:  :o


 Ummm  ok.. more like 5th grade for those.  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 26, 2007, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I have been debating posting this... but I am going to ask for support/prayers for a friend's daughter...

she was brutally raped, and beaten in Atlanta... and the rape was so tramuatizing that she has had what they are terming a "psychotic break"... daughter can't tell us what happened or anything... and she refused a rape kit because she was afraid of the exam... I think it's possible that she knew the attacker and is afraid of him...

regardless, she needs our prayers...

thanks.

it was hard for me to post this, but I also want to say that I know y'all of everyone will understand...


mrs. red ... I know that you are hurting.  My thoughts and and prayers are with you and you loved ones.  Reach up and call out ... our God will here your cries and afford you comfort, peace and strength in the midst of the storm.

Sincerely, Janet.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:07:16 PM
Buckeye I think it is too late... unfortunately.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I guess they found the girl in the car?  I heard earlier that a car had been found.

Yes EASY - sounds like it's her.  They are doing an autopsy tomorrow to determine for sure and to find the cause of death.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:07:26 PM
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: robots on July 26, 2007, 10:08:46 PM
could be just me... but i think some avatars are slowing down the board


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:11:10 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Buckeye I think it is too late... unfortunately.


 :cry:  :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:11:40 PM
thank you Tamiksomom


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I guess they found the girl in the car?  I heard earlier that a car had been found.

Yes EASY - sounds like it's her.  They are doing an autopsy tomorrow to determine for sure and to find the cause of death.


It's all just too sad!

They were just talking about another young woman that disappeared after meeting a convicted sex offender.  Too many crazy people out there!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:12:59 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


I should know this one... I took a whole quater of Milton in college....

I know Milton was not a big fan of Eve or women in general...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


His wife? :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:14:38 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Buckeye I think it is too late... unfortunately.


 :cry:  :cry:


her mental condition just wouldn't allow for the rape kit... and it didn't matter to anyone that her mom and sister were there begging for the rape kit to be done to preserve evidence...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:14:56 PM
CHUCK my last post to you for the night sexy..
 You only WISH me and Nonsey were near you..
 As tall as we are.. we would make one hell of a sandwhich out of you and you would LOVE it. Now go grab your teddy bear Chuck and say your prayers..you dont want people to think you are gay? I never said you were but you so appear to be afraid of girl germs after reading your posts.
   Nothing wrong with that..  I love you Chucky.. and sweet dreams to you. I get a kick out of you.   kiss kiss... your posts make me laugh!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:16:44 PM
Quote from: "robots"
could be just me... but i think some avatars are slowing down the board


 Hey Wolf.   :wink:
 Shall I remove my ears? I think I need to trade them in for horns.. :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 26, 2007, 10:17:28 PM
Quote from: "Tiger"
Mrs.Red,She is in my prayers.I hope she can recover.

I do too. This world we live is a cruel one.
We must try to to remember that and extend ourselves to those who need us. This girl is going to need the love and support of many people close to her to recover and heal.  She is alive and as stupid as it sounds,
time and love and lots of it will help her in her inch by inch batlle to get better.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: sb on July 26, 2007, 10:17:37 PM
mrs. red, let me join in too and say that my prayers are with this young lady. I can't believe how senseless all this is...

I am thinking that this was a stranger to the girl, with that level of traumatization. The ex-husband, although I'm sure he's a DIRTY ROTTEN PIG, would have been sort of a known quantity to her and at least that would allay some of the fears that must terrify any young woman's heart who undergoes this... what about the unknowns. I cannot imagine. I don't think any man can really have an idea how bad it is.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:19:00 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


His wife? :lol:



 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:19:53 PM
SB... I don't know whether to hope that it is her ex or an unknown.  I do hope that we are able to help her regain her sense of self and footing.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:20:15 PM
Back to the dogs.

Joran has two dogs.  Why would he even say that he thought "Deepak came with two dogs" ?  What an odd thing...unless there was evidence of dog bites or perhaps dog blood on the mattress (that actually was covering Natalee's DNA)??

There is a reason Natalee is on the FBI seeking info site (and placed there late).  Kidnapped and runaways are under missing.  If you look at the seeking info site, the majority are dead or presumed dead.

There have been charges since day one of murder...expanded to premeditated and heavy battery.  No justice system can just pull things out of the air.  I believe they have the forensics.

Aggravated battery involved deadly weapon, etc.  Can heavy battery include dog attack?? (or yes, baseball bat).


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Easywriter on July 26, 2007, 10:21:17 PM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
CHUCK my last post to you for the night sexy..
 You only WISH me and Nonsey were near you..
 As tall as we are.. we would make one hell of a sandwhich out of you and you would LOVE it. Now go grab your teddy bear Chuck and say your prayers..you dont want people to think you are gay? I never said you were but you so appear to be afraid of girl germs after reading your posts.
   Nothing wrong with that..  I love you Chucky.. and sweet dreams to you. I get a kick out of you.   kiss kiss... your posts make me laugh!


That might cause Chuck to have a premature recitation!   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
CHUCK my last post to you for the night sexy..
 You only WISH me and Nonsey were near you..
 As tall as we are.. we would make one hell of a sandwhich out of you and you would LOVE it. Now go grab your teddy bear Chuck and say your prayers..you dont want people to think you are gay? I never said you were but you so appear to be afraid of girl germs after reading your posts.
   Nothing wrong with that..  I love you Chucky.. and sweet dreams to you. I get a kick out of you.   kiss kiss... your posts make me laugh!


That might cause Chuck to have a premature recitation!   :lol:


  ROFLMAO   :wink:  <I am trying to be good.. I am on drugs yah know..  :roll: >   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: Buckeye
Back to the dogs.

Joran has two dogs.  Why would he even say that he thought "Deepak came with two dogs" ?  What an odd thing...unless there was evidence of dog bites or perhaps dog blood on the mattress (that actually was covering Natalee's DNA)??

There is a reason Natalee is on the FBI seeking info site (and placed there late).  Kidnapped and runaways are under missing.  If you look at the seeking info site, the majority are dead or presumed dead.

There have been charges since day one of murder...expanded to premeditated and heavy battery.  No justice system can just pull things out of the air.  I believe they have the forensics.

Aggravated battery involved deadly weapon, etc.  Can heavy
(snipped by accident)

what if joran was trying to use a play on words... ?? like pimp speak... saying that they brought their dawgs??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:24:18 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Buckeye I think it is too late... unfortunately.


 :cry:  :cry:


her mental condition just wouldn't allow for the rape kit... and it didn't matter to anyone that her mom and sister were there begging for the rape kit to be done to preserve evidence...


It may not be too late, to gather some forensics.  The rape crisis team is very capable in the mental support area also.  They usually work with a victims advocate from the police dept.  Maybe she should be transfered to a different facility??  Is there a rape crisis hotline??  They may have info.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 10:25:30 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Back to the dogs.

Joran has two dogs.  Why would he even say that he thought "Deepak came with two dogs" ?


I always thought the dog detail in Joran's statement was wierd, too.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: justinsmama on July 26, 2007, 10:25:42 PM
Still waiting, Lala's! And wanna go to bed... 8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: mrs. red
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Back to the dogs.

Joran has two dogs.  Why would he even say that he thought "Deepak came with two dogs" ?  What an odd thing...unless there was evidence of dog bites or perhaps dog blood on the mattress (that actually was covering Natalee's DNA)??

There is a reason Natalee is on the FBI seeking info site (and placed there late).  Kidnapped and runaways are under missing.  If you look at the seeking info site, the majority are dead or presumed dead.

There have been charges since day one of murder...expanded to premeditated and heavy battery.  No justice system can just pull things out of the air.  I believe they have the forensics.

Aggravated battery involved deadly weapon, etc.  Can heavy
(snipped by accident)

what if joran was trying to use a play on words... ?? like pimp speak... saying that they brought their dawgs??


I read Ramm's translation.  There is slang for the term friends etc and he said he read it every which way and the terms meant actual animal dog, not the "dawgs" you hang with.  Maybe Robert from FP could verify??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:27:06 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Buckeye I think it is too late... unfortunately.


 :cry:  :cry:


her mental condition just wouldn't allow for the rape kit... and it didn't matter to anyone that her mom and sister were there begging for the rape kit to be done to preserve evidence...


It may not be too late, to gather some forensics.  The rape crisis team is very capable in the mental support area also.  They usually work with a victims advocate from the police dept.  Maybe she should be transfered to a different facility??  Is there a rape crisis hotline??  They may have info.


all great ideas.. I am going to try and call her mom and see if there is something like that will help her...they were at the hospital when I called her...

last thing I should say... but I just had that "feeling" I needed to call her mom... I will update in the prayer thread as I hear stuff...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: greeneyedlady on July 26, 2007, 10:29:53 PM
Quote from: Angiex911dsptchr
ROFL

charlierat Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:51 pm    

angiewithcooties wrote: Chucky baby.. you would cream yourself if I kissed you. I think you are hot.. come here baby.. Can yah handle it? I have a body condom ready..



Come to MaMa Chuck.. Bend over handsome



Chuck you got my cooties.. you know it.. geesh.. didnt ya'll tell anyone we met before?

I have a great sense of humor .. don't I Heli? Gosh.. I hope I am not stealing your boyfriend away..
 

Why do I have the compelling urge to take a shower? I guess they don't think I'm gay anymore.  


 Chuck,, Need help in the shower?  :wink:  :wink:  Whats the matter? Afraid of some girl cooties?  I alread

I'm just about to catch up,but had to stop and ROFLMAO-Too Funny!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:31:35 PM
Mrs. Red

Try this.  Remeber, I don't know Atlanta.

http://www.sexualassault.gatech.edu/rccs.htm


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 10:32:27 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


Lalas--was it his blindness?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:32:42 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Mrs. Red

Try this.  Remeber, I don't know Atlanta.

http://www.sexualassault.gatech.edu/rccs.htm


thanks buckeye...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: wreck on July 26, 2007, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: Buckeye
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Back to the dogs.

Joran has two dogs.  Why would he even say that he thought "Deepak came with two dogs" ?  What an odd thing...unless there was evidence of dog bites or perhaps dog blood on the mattress (that actually was covering Natalee's DNA)??

There is a reason Natalee is on the FBI seeking info site (and placed there late).  Kidnapped and runaways are under missing.  If you look at the seeking info site, the majority are dead or presumed dead.

There have been charges since day one of murder...expanded to premeditated and heavy battery.  No justice system can just pull things out of the air.  I believe they have the forensics.

Aggravated battery involved deadly weapon, etc.  Can heavy
(snipped by accident)

what if joran was trying to use a play on words... ?? like pimp speak... saying that they brought their dawgs??


I read Ramm's translation.  There is slang for the term friends etc and he said he read it every which way and the terms meant actual animal dog, not the "dawgs" you hang with.  Maybe Robert from FP could verify??

The "bloody mattress" that was found and dismissed early on was said to be "dog's blood." I put this detail to be similar to "she fell and hit her head" when they dropped her off at the HI.  ............. a grain of truth in every LIE


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mishy on July 26, 2007, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Ang... don't be sorry for screwing around earlier... I think BLAH liked it... apparently chuck did too... :wink:

just pray for my friend, her daughter and family... she has small children that need her too....

I can't even begin to post how flipping evil I feel right now... but thank you all for letting me work out my emotions with you...


Mrs Red, my prayers are with your friend, her daughter and her children, as well as with you. I totally understand how you would feel evil right now. When horrible things happen like this, it's so hard and you feel so helpless and you want to lash out at those who hurt the people you love. I am so sorry this has happened. I'm glad my sister just moved from ATL, but B'ham is the same way, hell I don't know if you could go anywhere to escape it  :cry: I hope the young woman is being watched closely by her family, as she needs them right now, and I pray that she will be open to some counseling after she gets over the initial shock. This is so devastating  :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 10:34:16 PM
Lala's, do you mean Milton's Samson and Delila?  from Paradise Lost?  That's the only "thorn intestet" that I can remember from Milton.  Or, on the other hand, maybe you do mean Milton's wife.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on July 26, 2007, 10:34:42 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Back to the dogs.

Joran has two dogs.  Why would he even say that he thought "Deepak came with two dogs" ?  What an odd thing...unless there was evidence of dog bites or perhaps dog blood on the mattress (that actually was covering Natalee's DNA)??

There is a reason Natalee is on the FBI seeking info site (and placed there late).  Kidnapped and runaways are under missing.  If you look at the seeking info site, the majority are dead or presumed dead.

There have been charges since day one of murder...expanded to premeditated and heavy battery.  No justice system can just pull things out of the air.  I believe they have the forensics.

Aggravated battery involved deadly weapon, etc.  Can heavy battery include dog attack?? (or yes, baseball bat).



Even though we don't understand their f***dup system I don't think they'd be charging Poran, Paulus and the Kalpoes with murder and heavy battery if they thought she overdosed and drowned. In fact, knowing what we do about their patsy system, if they didn't have a damn good idea they had something to do with it they wouldn't have charged them at all.

Cohen said they had forensics and confessions from two of them that they had sex with her until some people trying to cover it up shut his trap. The same ones that took the confession away.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 10:35:21 PM
HELI    F**K you BITCH ~!!   8)
 Let me and my Chuck alone. ok?  :twisted:  And no darlin Chuck.. it isnt  Loratab.  :roll:  :roll:
 Gee do I need to join RU   :twisted:  So I can post to my Chucky?
 I was nice Chuck and wished you sweet dreams.. Geesh the nerve of your fellow posters there.  :roll:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 10:35:40 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
O/T question...does anyone know who started The Foundation for the Blind and does anyone know whose name it was created in?  Don't cheat and google.  Just curious how many on here actually know the answer without looking it up.


Got me, here..and maybe I should know....I only know who heads it now...Gordon Lund...or maybe I'm in the wrong pew....he's with Foundation for Fighting Blindness...so guess I don't know...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:36:00 PM
Okay here goes.  The answer is John Milton and his "thorn" was that he was blind.  Now, since very few of you even knew that...I bet BT did...how on earth would someone like Gabe Leo ( you have to look at his tickle site to understand this) who is supposedly Shango know enough Milton to even use a reference in his Shango verses?  I would venture to say that very few of the posters here, who are much more intellectual in their thinking would have known the "wine of Bacchus" reference without looking it up.

My point is this, Shango is not Leo.  He was telling the truth on the FP when he said he wasn't Shango.  Now, everyone jump on the bandwagon and flame away.  Just trying to prove my point.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:37:39 PM
Quote from: wreck
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Back to the dogs.

Joran has two dogs.  Why would he even say that he thought "Deepak came with two dogs" ?  What an odd thing...unless there was evidence of dog bites or perhaps dog blood on the mattress (that actually was covering Natalee's DNA)??

There is a reason Natalee is on the FBI seeking info site (and placed there late).  Kidnapped and runaways are under missing.  If you look at the seeking info site, the majority are dead or presumed dead.

There have been charges since day one of murder...expanded to premeditated and heavy battery.  No justice system can just pull things out of the air.  I believe they have the forensics.

Aggravated battery involved deadly weapon, etc.  Can heavy
(snipped by accident)

what if joran was trying to use a play on words... ?? like pimp speak... saying that they brought their dawgs??


I read Ramm's translation.  There is slang for the term friends etc and he said he read it every which way and the terms meant actual animal dog, not the "dawgs" you hang with.  Maybe Robert from FP could verify??

The "bloody mattress" that was found and dismissed early on was said to be "dog's blood." I put this detail to be similar to "she fell and hit her head" when they dropped her off at the HI.  ............. a grain of truth in every LIE


I'm sure there was dog's blood but maybe to cover other blood (that showed up after further analysis).  Early on, I was looking for what could be used to throw cadaver dogs off and dog's blood was a popular pick.  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 10:37:49 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


Lalas--was it his blindness?


What did I just say?!?!?!?!  ;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on July 26, 2007, 10:38:30 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"


all great ideas.. I am going to try and call her mom and see if there is something like that will help her...they were at the hospital when I called her...

last thing I should say... but I just had that "feeling" I needed to call her mom... I will update in the prayer thread as I hear stuff...



My prayers to all of you Mrs. Red. Godspeed.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 10:40:03 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Okay here goes.  The answer is John Milton and his "thorn" was that he was blind.  Now, since very few of you even knew that...I bet BT did...how on earth would someone like Gabe Leo ( you have to look at his tickle site to understand this) who is supposedly Shango know enough Milton to even use a reference in his Shango verses?  I would venture to say that very few of the posters here, who are much more intellectual in their thinking would have known the "wine of Bacchus" reference without looking it up.

My point is this, Shango is not Leo.  He was telling the truth on the FP when he said he wasn't Shango.  Now, everyone jump on the bandwagon and flame away.  Just trying to prove my point.


Good point Lala's.   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 10:41:10 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


Lalas--was it his blindness?


What did I just say?!?!?!?!  ;)


AH HA!...BlueKYGirl is SHANGO!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 10:41:54 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Okay here goes.  The answer is John Milton and his "thorn" was that he was blind.  Now, since very few of you even knew that...I bet BT did...how on earth would someone like Gabe Leo ( you have to look at his tickle site to understand this) who is supposedly Shango know enough Milton to even use a reference in his Shango verses?  I would venture to say that very few of the posters here, who are much more intellectual in their thinking would have known the "wine of Bacchus" reference without looking it up.

My point is this, Shango is not Leo.  He was telling the truth on the FP when he said he wasn't Shango.  Now, everyone jump on the bandwagon and flame away.  Just trying to prove my point.


milton was in the 17th century; he founded the Foundation For the Blind?  What am I missing here


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 10:42:17 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


Lalas--was it his blindness?


What did I just say?!?!?!?!  ;)


AH HA!...BlueKYGirl is SHANGO!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Yep...you all caught me! After all this time!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Buckeye on July 26, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
Lalas

Are you trying to say that you think Shago is a well read poet?? CC?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: the big hammer on July 26, 2007, 10:44:51 PM
Freddy & Video?

san writes: Joran was the one downloading porn and those records were tinkered with also. Who would have been in this position to transmit the video. In one of his PV's Deepak said they went to Freddy's to return the camera. Could Deepak have done this the next day after realizing what type of film he had in his possession

It was Satish.  On 6/24/05 PV.  We do not know what day it was -- BUT, it was AFTER Natalee was missing, and probably close to the day of their arrest:

"...I have met Freddy two times after it was confessed that the girl became missing. The first time I was with my brother Deepak at Joran’s apartment where Freddy was with his girlfriend Carmen, the sister of Carmen and another girlfriend came along to Joran’s. We spoke with Freddy but not concerning the matter of the missing girl. That day Freddy slept at Joran’s apartment. I cannot remember what day that was.

The second time was when Joran, my brother and I took the camera to Freddy’s house. We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja. I do not remember his house number. We had bought food and we then we went to Joran’s apartment afterwards. According to me Freddy was informed then already about the missing girl. We may have spoken some about the missing girl, it is possible but I don’t remember.

You ask me if I was scared when we were talking with Freddy about the missing girl. It is possible that I don’t remember. I say that we, Deepak and I, did not know that Freddy knew the real story. The real story, which was on the beach. It do not understand why Freddy was told that, according to me he knew both stories already..."


Why would Satish be afraid of Freddy?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=374


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 10:45:29 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Okay here goes.  The answer is John Milton and his "thorn" was that he was blind.  Now, since very few of you even knew that...I bet BT did...how on earth would someone like Gabe Leo ( you have to look at his tickle site to understand this) who is supposedly Shango know enough Milton to even use a reference in his Shango verses?  I would venture to say that very few of the posters here, who are much more intellectual in their thinking would have known the "wine of Bacchus" reference without looking it up.

My point is this, Shango is not Leo.  He was telling the truth on the FP when he said he wasn't Shango.  Now, everyone jump on the bandwagon and flame away.  Just trying to prove my point.


I agree.  Good point.  I've noticed the allusions and references in Shango's posts.  In my opinion, Shango is male, well educated and versed in the Caribbean and Rastafarian mythology.  His references are also highly political in nature.  I think he is an older person, perhaps a scholar at one of the Florida universities.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mishy on July 26, 2007, 10:45:49 PM
Great point, Lalas. I have always wondered if it was CC, but do we know for sure if he/she was posting from Florida? Or was that just a Florida IP?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:47:54 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


Lalas--was it his blindness?


What did I just say?!?!?!?!  ;)


Yes, I knew there was someone that would know.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:48:31 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Lalas

Are you trying to say that you think Shago is a well read poet?? CC?


No.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 10:48:42 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Yes, I knew there was someone that would know.


Ha-cha-cha. ;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:51:08 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Next question...and a hint to the answer of the first one.

What was John Milton's "thorn in his side"?


Lalas--was it his blindness?


What did I just say?!?!?!?!  ;)


Yes, I knew there was someone that would know.


Ok I studied Milton... and I had forgotten that, so I agree with your post about gabe leo.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
O/T question...does anyone know who started The Foundation for the Blind and does anyone know whose name it was created in?  Don't cheat and google.  Just curious how many on here actually know the answer without looking it up.


How did we go from the above original question to Shango?  Lala, I just can't tango with you; I trip all over myself


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:51:49 PM
Now where would you guys like to start the tango?  I am ready and waiting.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 10:52:26 PM
Who's Gabe Leo? Some kind of a dimwit?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:53:10 PM
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
O/T question...does anyone know who started The Foundation for the Blind and does anyone know whose name it was created in?  Don't cheat and google.  Just curious how many on here actually know the answer without looking it up.


How did we go from the above original question to Shango?  Lala, I just can't tango with you; I trip all over myself


I didn't say The American Foundation for the Blind.  I said The Foundations for the Blind.  Two totally different things. Sorry,  I didn't mean to confuse anyone...well yes I did... but not in that way.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 10:53:34 PM
thank you Mishy and hiker...

I don't think I can tango with y'all...

Nite all...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Now where would you guys like to start the tango?  I am ready and waiting.


LaLa, are YOU Shango?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:54:14 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Who's Gabe Leo? Some kind of a dimwit?


I am not answering that question.  I don't know enough about that...him.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:54:51 PM
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Now where would you guys like to start the tango?  I am ready and waiting.


LaLa, are YOU Shango?


I wish. :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 10:55:26 PM
Lala's, we might start at the beginning--when Shango first began posting and his "relationship" with Simian.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 10:55:41 PM
Hang on I am going to bring something over when I find it...I have to go read through Shango to locate it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 10:56:52 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Now where would you guys like to start the tango?  I am ready and waiting.


LaLa, are YOU Shango?


I wish. :lol:  :lol:


Are all Shango's posts in one thread or are they spread out.  I'd like to really study them for about 2-3 days and see what I can come up with. (if nothing else, I'll know what you're talking about)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Who's Gabe Leo? Some kind of a dimwit?


I am not answering that question.  I don't know enough about that...him.


I've never heard of him, but the tone of conversation is telling me he's not someone well-versed in the poetry of the English Baroque era. We'll leave it at that.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Anna on July 26, 2007, 10:59:31 PM
Lala's

A poster who is waiting to get into the cage asked me to see that you got this information as it relates to your discussion last night:

Bacchus
by Micha F. Lindemans
The Roman god of wine and intoxication, equated with the Greek Dionysus. His festival was celebrated on March 16 and 17. The Bacchanalia, orgies in honor of Dionysus, were introduced in Rome around 200 BCE. These infamous celebrations, notorious for their sexual and criminal character, got so out of hand that they were forbidden by the Roman Senate in 186 BCE. Bacchus is also identified with the old-Italian god Liber.
 

The worship of Bacchus is vividly depicted in Euripides' play The Bacchae.
 
.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 26, 2007, 11:07:15 PM
Good Evening All

Hey I had my first try at making a video today... well yesterday and today.. I'm new to videos... but it's a smoker....shows the real Aruba...

I posted it on my site if anyone is interested...

comments are always welcome in the comment section and it;s not for people like Lala'smom... cause there is a bunch of bad language in there...LOL

anyway... I think you'll all like it just the same...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 11:08:12 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Lala's

A poster who is waiting to get into the cage asked me to see that you got this information as it relates to your discussion last night:

Bacchus
by Micha F. Lindemans
The Roman god of wine and intoxication, equated with the Greek Dionysus. His festival was celebrated on March 16 and 17. The Bacchanalia, orgies in honor of Dionysus, were introduced in Rome around 200 BCE. These infamous celebrations, notorious for their sexual and criminal character, got so out of hand that they were forbidden by the Roman Senate in 186 BCE. Bacchus is also identified with the old-Italian god Liber.
 

The worship of Bacchus is vividly depicted in Euripides' play The Bacchae.
 
.


Thanks Anna.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: AZLady on July 26, 2007, 11:09:08 PM
Here are all of Simian's posts.  http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1194

You might wish to read from the bottom up in chronological order.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 11:10:18 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Good Evening All

Hey I had my first try at making a video today... well yesterday and today.. I'm new to videos... but it's a smoker....shows the real Aruba...

I posted it on my site if anyone is interested...

comments are always welcome in the comment section and it;s not for people like Lala'smom... cause there is a bunch of bad language in there...LOL

anyway... I think you'll all like it just the same...


It's AWESOME Rob!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Shell on July 26, 2007, 11:10:20 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Monkeys.. please go back to talking... I just needed to express some anger and shock and you allowed me to do that, and I am grateful.


Mrs.R...hugs and prayers from here too.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 11:10:43 PM
Okay, my apologies to Anna and I promise not to stay on this topic too long.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Not all lions leave their den
 Lorenzo didn't have to leave, he was already home when the party started.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: ospainter on July 26, 2007, 11:10:49 PM
I just found this post while searching Simian.

One post made yesterday by Simian was a confirmation for me that he’s got legit inside information. At 4:04 pm he posted: Simian Says:

June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

When news broke at around 6 pm that elder VDS had been ordered released by the judge and had been alreasy released from custody, it seemed clear to me that Simian knew this at 4:04.

Comment by new girl | June 27, 2005, 12:34 pm

OS


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 26, 2007, 11:12:14 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Rob"
Good Evening All

Hey I had my first try at making a video today... well yesterday and today.. I'm new to videos... but it's a smoker....shows the real Aruba...

I posted it on my site if anyone is interested...

comments are always welcome in the comment section and it;s not for people like Lala'smom... cause there is a bunch of bad language in there...LOL

anyway... I think you'll all like it just the same...


It's AWESOME Rob!


WoW... coming from you means the world to me...it really does...

Thank you so much... smoochees!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 26, 2007, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Good Evening All

Hey I had my first try at making a video today... well yesterday and today.. I'm new to videos... but it's a smoker....shows the real Aruba...

I posted it on my site if anyone is interested...

comments are always welcome in the comment section and it;s not for people like Lala'smom... cause there is a bunch of bad language in there...LOL

anyway... I think you'll all like it just the same...


  Got your email.. viewed it twice and I have to say I am impressed.
 lalas  you may need muffs but its a great video!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: BlueKYGirl on July 26, 2007, 11:15:21 PM
Well, it was fun while it lasted, monkeys.

BlueKYBoy needs the computer...so I'll see y'all later. Wish I could stay and play.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: mrs. red on July 26, 2007, 11:15:56 PM
still reading.. just can't sleep...

well dang rob if you are going to talk about ... just post a link, so we can all see it!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Who's Gabe Leo? Some kind of a dimwit?


I am not answering that question.  I don't know enough about that...him.


I've never heard of him, but the tone of conversation is telling me he's not someone well-versed in the poetry of the English Baroque era. We'll leave it at that.


It's a long story ask Klaas for my email and I will tell you all about it if you are interested.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 11:17:41 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
still reading.. just can't sleep...

well dang rob if you are going to talk about ... just post a link, so we can all see it!


http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/2007/07/aruba-driftin-on-darkside.html


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Now where would you guys like to start the tango?  I am ready and waiting.


LaLa, are YOU Shango?


I wish. :lol:  :lol:


Are all Shango's posts in one thread or are they spread out.  I'd like to really study them for about 2-3 days and see what I can come up with. (if nothing else, I'll know what you're talking about)


2nd request!  See above


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2007, 11:18:30 PM
Going in...wearing my muffs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 11:19:46 PM
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Now where would you guys like to start the tango?  I am ready and waiting.


LaLa, are YOU Shango?


I wish. :lol:  :lol:


Are all Shango's posts in one thread or are they spread out.  I'd like to really study them for about 2-3 days and see what I can come up with. (if nothing else, I'll know what you're talking about)


2nd request!  See above


I think they are all here:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=281


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: tcumom on July 26, 2007, 11:20:59 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
still reading.. just can't sleep...

well dang rob if you are going to talk about ... just post a link, so we can all see it!

Mrs. Red ~ if it's not too much trouble, could you tell me the website you and Easy were talking about earlier in the evening....think it had 3 letters  :?  Thanks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Rob on July 26, 2007, 11:22:23 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
still reading.. just can't sleep...

well dang rob if you are going to talk about ... just post a link, so we can all see it!


sorry Mrs Red... I was posting all the comments...LOL

I'm gonna do a few more now that I have the hang of it...LOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: klaasend on July 26, 2007, 11:23:15 PM
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
still reading.. just can't sleep...

well dang rob if you are going to talk about ... just post a link, so we can all see it!


sorry Mrs Red... I was posting all the comments...LOL

I'm gonna do a few more now that I have the hang of it...LOL


Rob - what program are you using to create them in?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Katysmom on July 26, 2007, 11:23:20 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Katysmom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Now where would you guys like to start the tango?  I am ready and waiting.


LaLa, are YOU Shango?


I wish. :lol:  :lol:


Are all Shango's posts in one thread or are they spread out.  I'd like to really study them for about 2-3 days and see what I can come up with. (if nothing else, I'll know what you're talking about)


2nd request!  See above


I think they are all here:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=281


Thank you, Klaas.  I book marked it and will get on it in the morning.  My Ambien is taking effect and I don't want to go into competion with Angie over Chucky.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 26, 2007, 11:23:53 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I don’t want to sound like I am pushing other blogs while here, but someone recently introduced me to ICB and thus far I have found it to be fascinating.  Whoever put it together really pulled together some talented writers and I have enjoyed reading them over the past few days.  Tonight, one of the contributors will be on Abram’s show.

Just passing that along to those that might be interested.


I do like that blog... it is interesting.

I'm behind, but could one of you provide the link or maybe just the name?  Either way would be great.  Thanks.  :D


www.incoldblog.com

I think that will get you there...if not, I'll try again...wanted to do this earlier but got interrupted.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: San on July 26, 2007, 11:24:31 PM
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/nowlocked.jpg)

Please move to LCD #666

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=254583#254583


 :lol:  :lol:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/met008.gif)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007
Post by: Leslie on July 26, 2007, 11:25:30 PM
I believe:
The delivery truck was from Dana Furniture and delivered a bookcase to the VDS's.
Joran did not go to school on Monday.  If he did tell a different story to his classmates about Natalee, it could have occured afer the HI story told to the Alabama posse.  Joran is known to change his stories and is a braggart.
Simian could barely write French.  "I don't know what you are saying. What, I am a woman?  Life is not what you think."  Ugh!